The Comment Section with Drew Afualo - WE'RE PEOPLE GIRLS Ft. Dylan Mulvaney ｜ Episode 160

00:00:00.000 This episode of the comment section is presented by Billie. Taking care of yourself is very healing,

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00:00:54.540 Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of the comment section show. Sorry,

00:00:59.780 me, your favorite. Everybody knows me. Who cares about me? On to the guests. Today,

00:01:03.380 we have another iconic all-star episode for you all. The one, the only, the talented,

00:01:08.200 the beautiful, the published, Dylan Mulvaney. Hey! Are you ready? Yeah!

00:01:16.400 Sounds like I'm introducing you at WWE, huh? I mean, that's what 2025 is, baby. Right.

00:01:21.220 It's mayhem. That's where we're gonna go next. We're gonna take another thing next. I can't wait.

00:01:25.640 I brought you a little something. Oh my gosh, please, let's see it. You ever tried a Percy

00:01:29.600 Pig? I've never had one. Okay, so these are from the UK where we're inevitably gonna have to move

00:01:34.120 when shit becomes Handmaid's Tale. Good day, Gapna. All right, for audio listeners, I'm currently 0.98

00:01:40.140 taking a Percy Pig sweet. I'm gonna eat it on camera. ASMR? ASMR, yeah. You've never had anything like

00:01:46.140 it. You like a, they call them fizzies, but you like sour? Yeah. They say sour is fizzy.

00:01:52.140 This just made so much saliva in my mouth. That's crazy, right? It's really good. There's nothing

00:01:56.940 like it in America. That's true. I think it's because there's less processed stuff, but I like

00:02:02.200 processed. I prefer it. Me too. You know what's funny is, that's from the UK, and I was starting

00:02:08.760 a war with them over their food when I went over to London for the first time, but it was their hot

00:02:13.400 cuisine. Not their snacks. I'm a big fan of their snacks. I think they nailed snacks.

00:02:17.600 But the warm stuff. Yeah. Bad. Yeah, they're pissing me off a little bit. I eat Chipotle

00:02:23.260 over there every day. I'm not kidding. That's actually so real. It's so healthy for me, and

00:02:29.220 I... Yeah, you do kind of eat like Buddy the Elf. So bad. A little bit, yeah. And I've got, well,

00:02:35.360 actually, the one healthy thing, I did bring my own BYOB, which was a grapezevia. That's true.

00:02:40.740 That's what's in here. And she brought me one too, and I put it in my room. I brought you one

00:02:43.560 for lunch. But it does throw me with drinking grape soda that isn't purple. Right. Because

00:02:48.700 that should also be processed. Thank you. Yeah. And, but these pair really well together. Also

00:02:53.980 recommend the hot rolled chips from Trader Joe's with this. Yes. That's a full meal. Right. And

00:02:58.640 I think if we could just be sending me the Trader Joe's chips, I'm getting a place in the UK.

00:03:03.740 Oh, beautiful. I'm going to go over there for a while.

00:03:05.380 I love. You thrive over there. I love it. In Europe, in general. The dating. You're a European

00:03:09.660 girl, I feel like. Oh my God. The dual citizenship. The babies with accents. It's all happening. 1.00

00:03:15.520 It's all happening. Life comes at you fast. And then me having to fly back in 50 years,

00:03:19.500 because we're going to host like Fashion Police with like Teffy when we're like 75 years old.

00:03:23.120 Absolutely. I can see it. When we're even more annoying. I can see it now.

00:03:26.060 Wow. I see our future and it is so bright. I can see it so clearly. So clear. When I was like

00:03:32.200 really dogging out the Brits for their cuisine, it was mostly just like an English breakfast because

00:03:38.740 I was really excited to try one. The beans? Yeah. The beans, I think, are trash, but like

00:03:43.940 it's everything else too. I'm trying to go over there now and be accepted. You're about to 0.98

00:03:48.620 really mess this up. I was like, before you go, let me say something. Are we still not dropping

00:03:53.100 the F-bomb on this one? No, you can. Oh, fuck yeah. Wait, I have so much we have to catch up on. 0.77

00:04:00.480 I have not been on this show since like day 173. Girl, and that's an exact day. I know that really

00:04:06.680 honey, we aren't, we aren't counting anymore. No longer. You said days of girlhood. I haven't heard

00:04:14.060 that name in so long. These are the days, bitch. A lot has happened since I saw you. It has. Let's 1.00

00:04:21.080 catch up. Okay. What's new? What's tea with you other than the brunette hair?

00:04:25.580 You know, trans rights are not looking so hot. Right. Oh my God. I was supposed to go on a date 0.99

00:04:29.600 last night and I'm really popping around here. ADHD, baby. Welcome. I was supposed to go on a date

00:04:36.780 and we matched on Raya. He's from Sweden, actually. Okay. So you're from Sweden? Me?

00:04:42.820 Did you say same? No, I said tea. Oh, I was like, wow. Do I look like a person?

00:04:49.120 So then he was like, I didn't want to give him a whole night. So I said, we can get a drink after

00:04:55.760 my dinner with friends. So I go to the dinner with friends, isn't responding. I get in the car home,

00:05:01.040 didn't hear from him. I'm home. He says, okay, let's meet up. And then I said, it's not worth it.

00:05:06.080 Right. Period. Because I'm not going to go out of my way. Absolutely. And I'm happy for you.

00:05:10.200 That's kind of what I've learned since being on this podcast. Hell yeah, bitch. I'm not going to 1.00

00:05:13.700 go out of my way for many. No. And why would you? He wasn't going out of his way to be mindful of

00:05:17.740 timing. No, he had hours to respond on the app. Right. And you're done. You're so lucky. You

00:05:23.240 don't have to be on there. I know. Scariest place. I'm counting my blessings. Trust me, I am.

00:05:28.200 Oh my God. Wait. Engaged? Oh, yes. Honey. Since then, we're engaged. Oh, I know. That's a beautiful ring.

00:05:36.080 Thank you. Wow. You did a great job. Last time I saw you was Megan Trainor concert.

00:05:40.200 Yes. We were both at Megan Trainor's concert. I got a concert. I got a shout out with Jojo

00:05:44.280 Siwa. She's like, do you remember all that bass? She's like, oh my God, Jojo! Dylan!

00:05:49.340 I was like, that's when you read it. Yeah, Megan didn't shout me out. Thanks, Megan.

00:05:51.940 Yeah, fuck. I appreciate you. No, but she did let me bring 10 people. So give and take. 0.99

00:05:57.100 You do sometimes bring a crew. I brought multiple books knowing that the family would be here today.

00:06:02.500 That is true. Dylan brought a book for each of us.

00:06:04.580 Yeah, I had to. I had to.

00:06:06.540 I love that that's becoming a moniker for me. I do want to talk about your one woman show.

00:06:11.180 Oh my God. Because I'm so fucking happy for you, but I would love to know how that came about. 0.81

00:06:15.580 Okay. Well, I was at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Yes. 0.93

00:06:18.000 I was feeling very sad following Beergate, which also randomly happened since doing this pod.

00:06:25.280 I know. We've lived a thousand lives since the last time.

00:06:28.860 I mean, a lot has happened. So I knew that I wanted to get back into theater. That was where I started.

00:06:35.700 It's my favorite thing in the world. Yes.

00:06:37.180 But I knew that if I had written a show, especially if it was like going to talk about parts of my life or transness, that people like the media would probably just tear it apart.

00:06:46.720 Right.

00:06:46.940 So I needed to find a safe place. And that was the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. Will you say Edinburgh for me?

00:06:52.900 Edinburgh.

00:06:53.860 Nice.

00:06:54.360 Nice.

00:06:54.660 That's so close.

00:06:55.400 Right.

00:06:55.580 And so I was like, I feel like Scotland, I'm going to go. I had never been there. I'm also the type where like, if I want to learn yoga, I'm just going to become a teacher.

00:07:06.320 Or like, if I'm going to do a show.

00:07:07.760 Your full method acting.

00:07:09.020 Yes. Like, I didn't know what the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, I'm going to go do a show there and we'll figure it out. And it's like Disneyland, babe.

00:07:14.380 Right.

00:07:14.580 I mean, I was sleeping with the hottest people. It was Baby Reindeer, all the good parts of Baby Reindeer.

00:07:20.420 I was, it was like, I would have my show, my show was at 10 p.m. I'd go out to the fun bar afterwards, my tiny little dresses.

00:07:28.660 Right.

00:07:28.940 And then, also, it's funny, I'm doing a lot of book press right now. And like, sometimes I'm like a little more buttoned up. I knew that if there was one place that I could femme the fuck out, it's this podcast.

00:07:38.920 How fucking yeah, bitch. 1.00

00:07:39.480 And so I literally am wearing, for our listeners, I'm wearing like a dress that just has like makeup and other dresses and lipstick and everything. 1.00

00:07:47.900 And the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, wow, my ADHD, woo today. Get ready, babies. I just, I felt like, I felt joy for the first time in a really long time.

00:08:00.320 That makes me happy to hear.

00:08:01.280 Thank you. Because I think that first year of girlhood was so good and there was so much, so much goodness came from it.

00:08:08.720 Yeah.

00:08:09.160 And then it felt like everything went so downhill. I tried to make a comeback with that song, babe, These Are The Days. That didn't go as planned.

00:08:17.360 And I had your back through that, too.

00:08:18.940 Girl, you did. You know you're an honorary doll.

00:08:21.860 Yeah.

00:08:22.380 The way, like I.

00:08:23.260 Me and the dolls, yeah.

00:08:25.440 Yeah, we're locked in.

00:08:26.920 We have each other.

00:08:28.420 Yes.

00:08:28.660 And I think that for me doing that show, I remember going out because it was an audience of 250 people and like they shut down the classrooms in the universities and that's what the theaters are.

00:08:39.260 Oh, I love it.

00:08:39.660 And so I'm like in a lecture hall and I did like, I finished the first show and I just started crying because I was like, oh my God, I didn't know if I'd ever feel that happy again.

00:08:48.360 Yeah, like joy.

00:08:49.260 Yes.

00:08:49.640 Yeah.

00:08:49.980 And so it was possible. And so I did, it did a sold out run there. And now I think we're going to bring it to America later this year.

00:08:57.280 Oh my God, how exciting.

00:08:58.600 And so I've been working on that. And it just, it's so crazy, too. I think when we first met, that was really the beginnings of our come up on the internet.

00:09:08.660 Totally.

00:09:08.780 And now we were like right next to each other because we were blowing up at the same time.

00:09:12.560 Yes.

00:09:12.980 Yeah. Like, and we were holding our, each other's hands.

00:09:15.440 Exactly. And I feel like now both of us have done all this other stuff outside of, you know, just these platforms.

00:09:22.660 Right. 0.99

00:09:23.020 I want it because you released a book that went fucking people bought the shit out of it. 0.99

00:09:28.560 Period. 0.99

00:09:29.220 Loved it. How about, do you have any advice for me as a first time writer? Like, or like going through this, this, you know, the press and the book tour and like, what would you say?

00:09:37.860 Yeah. I mean, I think for you, because you're my girl, I think the, the biggest thing I would tell you is that it's yours no matter what. And the purpose of art is, is to put it out there. It's not about reviews. It's not about accolades. Those are great. And they're wonderful.

00:09:52.580 Did you read the reviews?

00:09:53.980 Yeah. I tried not to like, I, I mean, I'll say this. I, the only ones I really saw were positive. The ones that I saw that were negative.

00:10:01.740 Because it's a fucking great rock. 0.86

00:10:03.420 The ones that I saw were, were negative or could be determined as negative, like perceived as negative were more so things of like people saying, I already knew this. The people who said, I already knew all this stuff. I was kind of like, okay. 0.98

00:10:14.420 Like, cause they're all cis straight white people. So I'm like, doubt it, but okay. 0.69

00:10:18.540 Yep.

00:10:18.740 So, um, past that, they would say things like, I thought it was going to be like an insult, like guide, like how to insult people.

00:10:26.600 Oh, because they, they just wanted to put you in a box of like, what they thought you were capable of.

00:10:30.140 Exactly. So it's like a very superficial take on my content is me as a person. So I would say like, not to really pay attention to that. And more so to like, why you did it in the first place. Like, that's what I would focus on. Cause I was really, really nervous too, about putting it out. Cause it was so vulnerable, which I know I'm sure yours is scary.

00:10:46.760 Yeah. Cause it's like, you're sharing something that's a piece of you. It's not like, it's not something that you created and it's just like, well, I don't care either way. It's like literally you're putting, it's like ripping your heart out and putting it on display. And people are like, I don't know. I don't really like it.

00:11:00.440 Well, especially cause I think so much of what we give or share is generally free.

00:11:05.400 Exactly.

00:11:05.980 And so I was like, if I'm asking $28 from these people, it better be good.

00:11:09.500 And mine was 28 too, period. 0.99

00:11:10.760 Girl, I, I mean, I put shit in there that I can't believe. 0.99

00:11:15.760 Right. 1.00

00:11:16.040 And so I really hope that people get to see another side to me because it's, it's very, you know, dark and vulnerable and stupid and all of these things. 0.99

00:11:27.040 But I also think like, hopefully it's worth it. 0.98

00:11:29.560 Yeah, absolutely.

00:11:30.580 I was going to ask you about obviously paper doll.

00:11:33.300 We have a book y'all.

00:11:34.840 Yes. 1.00

00:11:35.280 And it's gang them on the sides, bitch. 1.00

00:11:38.200 Get into it. 1.00

00:11:39.520 Can you see that?

00:11:40.800 I just really.

00:11:41.780 Design's gorge.

00:11:42.460 Well, that's the thing.

00:11:43.220 If you don't like the words, you will at least want that on your shelf.

00:11:47.360 And, and under this, you know, Taylor has like a Taylor's version.

00:11:52.060 Yes.

00:11:52.700 This is Dylan's version of the cover. 0.95

00:11:54.640 That is so fucking cute. 0.94

00:11:56.300 And it's a paper doll. 0.98

00:11:57.220 It's a paper doll of me.

00:11:58.120 Oh my gosh, it's her little outfit.

00:11:58.800 It's a paper doll of me.

00:12:00.520 And so that was like, the design was, were you like, was designing it hard for you?

00:12:05.800 Yeah, I was into it.

00:12:06.780 I was very into it too.

00:12:08.300 Like, especially as a Virgo too.

00:12:10.000 I was very like, well, no, even like from the minute I sold it, I was like, okay, I know

00:12:16.440 what the, I want the cover to look like.

00:12:17.480 This is it.

00:12:18.140 I literally was like, I know what I want.

00:12:19.500 I was saying title is tricky for you.

00:12:20.920 Yeah.

00:12:21.180 Title was the, shockingly the hardest thing for us to come to the middle on.

00:12:25.500 Okay.

00:12:25.860 Because I was really hard pressed on, I'd rather die alone.

00:12:28.800 That's what I wanted it to be.

00:12:30.180 Love it.

00:12:30.640 Because I was like, it sounds like Jeanette McCurdy's like, I'm glad my mom died.

00:12:34.060 You know, like snappy, catchy.

00:12:35.620 Because at first my publisher was like, I don't know, it's a little negative.

00:12:39.620 And I was like, I know, but that's the thing.

00:12:41.940 It's ironic.

00:12:42.520 And I was like, very married to that title, even throughout writing it, the first, second,

00:12:47.480 third pass, I was still like, that's the title.

00:12:49.960 That's the title.

00:12:51.000 And then once my publisher read the whole manuscript front and back, and then the next few passes,

00:12:56.880 he was like, I think the title, that title makes sense after you read it.

00:13:00.880 And he was like, but it's not indicative of what it is when you first like see the cover.

00:13:06.000 And I was like, and loud is so, it's just like, it catches you.

00:13:10.940 Absolutely.

00:13:11.300 It gets, so you feel happy with the decision.

00:13:13.940 Oh, yeah.

00:13:14.320 I'm so happy with the title and the subtitle because I came up with them on my own.

00:13:17.320 Because, you know, the titles can be very collaborative, too.

00:13:19.300 So that's why I was like, I really want to at least come up with it if I can.

00:13:22.040 And then it's weird, though, to have, I feel like I usually, like for my one-woman show,

00:13:26.440 it was Fag Hag. 1.00

00:13:27.180 I had the title. 1.00

00:13:27.960 I didn't know what the damn show was. 0.99

00:13:29.460 But I said, that's a great title. 0.99

00:13:33.120 It's the perfect title for your one-woman show. 1.00

00:13:35.420 It's such a good title.

00:13:36.160 But girl, couldn't promote it anywhere because of the slur. 1.00

00:13:39.420 It got blocked on every app.

00:13:41.400 We're going to have to figure that out.

00:13:42.360 It was asterisk.

00:13:43.360 You'd think.

00:13:44.100 They won't even allow that.

00:13:45.800 Now, with this one, I originally sold it as Days of Girlhood.

00:13:50.380 Like this was like early in my transition.

00:13:53.560 They were like, you want to write a book? 1.00

00:13:55.420 And I was like, yeah, bitch. 0.99

00:13:56.380 Yes, I was going to ask you about the process. 0.99

00:13:57.780 So it took three years.

00:14:00.160 It was so long.

00:14:01.460 And I thought it was going to be one thing.

00:14:02.940 And then Beer Gate happened and became a completely other book that I think it's better for it.

00:14:08.880 But then, so at first it was Days of Girlhood.

00:14:11.960 Then this amazing writer at The New Yorker named Brock had written this article called Girlhood Interrupted.

00:14:20.180 And I really liked that title.

00:14:23.320 I was like, ooh, maybe I'll ask Brock if I can use that for the book title.

00:14:26.200 And then I thought I was just brainstorming, throwing words down.

00:14:29.880 And I was like, Paper Doll.

00:14:30.980 I was like, the dolls.

00:14:32.180 Hello.

00:14:32.920 Duh.

00:14:33.400 Paper Doll feels very retro, which is like kind of my aesthetic.

00:14:36.820 Totally.

00:14:37.260 And then I also thought about like the two-dimensional aspect of like how people perceive us online.

00:14:42.080 And then trying to make it more three-dimensional.

00:14:45.700 Absolutely.

00:14:46.820 And then the notes from a late bloomer, it felt kind of like notes.

00:14:50.160 I wanted in there to signify that this wasn't some sort of like polished memoir.

00:14:55.600 Because I think it is, you know, to be in your 20s and writing a nonfiction book, like it feels a little self-indulgent.

00:15:03.080 That's exactly what I said.

00:15:04.880 When they kept saying memoir, I was like, I'm not old enough to warrant a memoir.

00:15:08.960 I know.

00:15:09.780 No memoir for us.

00:15:10.680 You want another Percy?

00:15:12.080 Oh, I would love one.

00:15:12.740 Okay, let's put him in the middle.

00:15:14.440 So I was like, okay, notes feels like because there's journal entries in there.

00:15:18.620 So that feels a little scrappy, a little messy.

00:15:20.700 Right.

00:15:21.020 And then late bloomer is very much me.

00:15:23.640 Like I'm still so early in my transition.

00:15:25.900 Things are still happening to my body.

00:15:27.960 But the one person, my best friend Lily, who it's dedicated to, I was like so excited.

00:15:32.760 I'm like, what do you think of Paper Doll?

00:15:34.860 She's like, kind of sounds like you were like the victim of abuse.

00:15:40.200 Or like something really dark.

00:15:41.880 And I was like, um, and I asked everyone else.

00:15:44.680 And then, but then when I asked him, like, do you like Paper Doll?

00:15:46.460 They'd be like, yeah.

00:15:46.920 And I'm like, does it sound like I'm like the victim of a hate crime?

00:15:49.780 Yeah.

00:15:50.020 Yeah.

00:15:50.200 And they're like, no.

00:15:51.560 And so, so finally last week she was like, yeah, I think I was wrong on that.

00:15:56.040 Like it's a good title.

00:15:57.220 She said that's on me.

00:15:57.700 That's on me.

00:15:58.040 It still goes out to Lily.

00:15:58.760 But that's a, that's a real girl.

00:16:00.040 Oh yeah.

00:16:00.480 And I dedicated it to you, but okay.

00:16:02.740 Uh, I think that's actually a good friend though.

00:16:04.760 So good.

00:16:05.360 A good friend will tell you like.

00:16:06.380 We go through all the pros and cons.

00:16:08.280 Exactly.

00:16:09.240 It's funny too.

00:16:09.960 Cause when I was originally doing mine, it had a completely different title.

00:16:14.480 It was how to make a grown man cry.

00:16:16.280 Oh, love that.

00:16:17.060 Which like, that's the second one, honey.

00:16:18.660 Yeah, exactly.

00:16:19.980 And I made sure, cause I thought the title was silly and fun.

00:16:23.200 And I remembered, I told my team specifically, I was like, I need you to put working title

00:16:27.640 on there because I don't want it to be called that because I don't want it to be about men.

00:16:31.720 Like I kept in, like in insisting that the title needs to indicate that this is not

00:16:37.760 four minutes in spite of them.

00:16:39.420 Right.

00:16:39.740 And so even with publishers I met with, I was like, this is not a dating book.

00:16:42.820 I cannot stress that enough.

00:16:44.100 Like this is not, this is not.

00:16:46.100 They want the dating book, but you didn't give it to them.

00:16:48.360 You gave them something better.

00:16:49.500 Exactly.

00:16:50.940 Date yourself.

00:16:51.940 That is what's tricky too, is when I think people want something very specifically for

00:16:55.540 you and you have to be like, no, this is the thing that I want to make and it's actually

00:16:58.280 going to be better because of it.

00:16:59.420 Absolutely.

00:16:59.620 And I think that's, that was what I was going to mention earlier when you were talking about

00:17:03.020 like this superficially how people perceive us online and how you want to be perceived

00:17:08.980 differently or at least seen differently with this book, which is, that was the goal of mine

00:17:13.600 too.

00:17:13.860 It's like author baby.

00:17:15.320 They can't take that out of our bio.

00:17:17.560 That's there.

00:17:18.720 They'd have to burn them.

00:17:19.800 And now it's in my Instagram bio. 0.99

00:17:21.360 Well, I did write, this was fucking embarrassing. 0.98

00:17:24.160 I've got to stop swearing. 0.99

00:17:25.520 I'm, you know, I don't give a fuck. 0.98

00:17:27.260 No, but I was supposed to, I haven't even done my 2025 vision board yet because I know 0.98

00:17:31.760 you're on, you're late on the come up.

00:17:33.640 Well, honey, I mean this year, this year already, but I was like, let's feel it out before

00:17:38.440 we make any rash decisions here.

00:17:41.120 And one of them was going to be to swear less.

00:17:43.500 So maybe I'm just really getting it out there before I put that up on the board.

00:17:47.220 Yeah.

00:17:47.320 You're, you're like exercising the demon.

00:17:49.400 Amen.

00:17:49.620 Um, and I think as like an author now, like I put in there, I was like, I hope these words

00:17:57.140 on this page last longer than the videos on my TikTok profile.

00:18:00.960 Amen.

00:18:01.240 Then they delete the app for a second.

00:18:03.140 I mean, I wish you could have seen, like, I was like, this wasn't, this was supposed

00:18:06.820 to be like 50 years from now, like, like, you know, some love letter to this app that

00:18:10.880 once existed, not like nostalgia today.

00:18:14.660 So that was really stressful, but we got her back.

00:18:17.380 We're, we're, we're in limbo.

00:18:19.040 Right.

00:18:19.280 We're tentative.

00:18:20.160 We're figuring that out.

00:18:21.560 Um, and, and I just think like, at least now those videos could, you know, go up at any

00:18:26.900 minute, who knows where they, they go into video heaven, but the books, they're going

00:18:31.080 to have to burn them if they really don't want that batch.

00:18:34.000 Absolutely.

00:18:34.660 And I think to you, and I already know this about you, cause I actually do know you in

00:18:40.160 real life, unlike people online.

00:18:42.280 Um, but we are so much more than what we were, what we got big for is what I'll say.

00:18:48.580 Like we are so much more as our, as is everyone who has a platform, like the people are, like

00:18:53.180 you said, multidimensional.

00:18:54.360 They're not two dimensional, like paper dolls.

00:18:56.200 Seeing you now on these carpets and like talking to all these people and coming out with those

00:18:59.940 the other project, I'm like, yes, yes, yes.

00:19:02.460 Because you do get to show all these other sides to yourself.

00:19:05.680 Right.

00:19:06.060 And that's how I felt when I saw your one woman show. 1.00

00:19:08.280 And you know what I will, I will say is I was so happy for you for so many reasons,

00:19:13.220 other than the first happiness I felt was really like, you truly looked like you were

00:19:17.080 enjoying yourself.

00:19:17.700 And that made me happy because I know how hard it was for you.

00:19:20.040 So when I give you flowers for that first, but second of all, I love seeing women thrive 1.00

00:19:25.380 in their art form, like what they're supposed to do, born to do.

00:19:30.580 That's how I feel about you seeing you on Broadway.

00:19:33.200 Like truly.

00:19:33.780 I wanted to ask you of all the things now that you've tried, what is your absolute favorite

00:19:40.220 top thing to do of the multi-hyphenate?

00:19:42.560 Ooh, probably hosting.

00:19:45.380 Like carpets?

00:19:46.220 Yeah.

00:19:46.520 Or this.

00:19:47.280 Yeah.

00:19:47.420 Hosting in any capacity, I would say.

00:19:48.720 Just like having the conversation.

00:19:50.260 Yeah.

00:19:50.580 I'm getting into acting this year.

00:19:51.940 I have been talking about that.

00:19:53.120 You too?

00:19:53.440 Well, yes, but I'm thinking, what if you go do a one woman show? 1.00

00:19:57.440 What if you write it?

00:19:58.160 I'm not like you though.

00:19:59.080 I don't have the voice.

00:20:00.320 We'll work on it.

00:20:02.840 Let's harmonize.

00:20:04.100 Ready?

00:20:07.240 She said, we'll work on it.

00:20:08.560 We'll work on it.

00:20:09.680 It's funny because I have so many friends who are artists, whether they're like pop

00:20:13.440 artists, vocalists, writers, all of the above or Broadway stars, doesn't matter.

00:20:17.680 And every single one of them is like, I bet, I bet you can see, you just need the training.

00:20:21.500 I'm like, you guys aren't listening to me.

00:20:23.160 You think it's not worth the money?

00:20:24.960 I'd say it'll be a waste of my money and everyone's time.

00:20:28.300 I don't know.

00:20:29.620 They're really, they're putting some people up there right now.

00:20:32.260 Let me sing like Lin-Manuel Miranda.

00:20:34.900 Oh, honey, Hamilton.

00:20:36.040 That's great.

00:20:36.540 Or The Rock.

00:20:37.520 Get ya.

00:20:38.600 Yeah.

00:20:39.280 Love it.

00:20:39.860 I'm saying, I'm like, let me do topsy.

00:20:41.040 What's your dream musical?

00:20:42.140 Well, first of all, let's go back.

00:20:43.700 Favorite musical.

00:20:45.160 I...

00:20:45.480 Uh-oh.

00:20:46.120 And I actually saw that you love this one.

00:20:48.580 Legally Blonde's one of my favorites. 0.88

00:20:49.860 Oh.

00:20:50.880 On Broadway.

00:20:51.840 You get a Percy Pig for that.

00:20:54.520 Babe.

00:20:55.300 That is one of my favorite Broadway musicals.

00:20:57.920 It's a perfect musical.

00:20:58.980 It's so perfect.

00:21:00.180 From top to bottom.

00:21:01.020 Discography top to bottom.

00:21:02.660 It's a listen all the way through.

00:21:04.060 Laura Bell Bundy.

00:21:04.940 Yeah.

00:21:05.700 So they...

00:21:06.860 Oh my God.

00:21:07.440 Yeah.

00:21:08.060 Oh my God.

00:21:09.000 Being in Los Angeles in a place where someone knows Laura Bell Bundy's name.

00:21:12.020 Yeah, girl. 0.99

00:21:12.460 Thank you.

00:21:13.020 I know all about her.

00:21:13.900 So, wow.

00:21:15.320 I really want to do a trans Legally Blonde in the musical where there's a trans Elle. 1.00

00:21:20.140 Maybe it's me.

00:21:20.880 Maybe it's not.

00:21:22.500 A Paulette would be like her trans elder that's like helping her navigate. 1.00

00:21:26.300 And then a trans Emmett that's like, babe, you're trying to be one of them, but you're 0.92

00:21:29.800 one of us.

00:21:30.680 Love that.

00:21:31.660 I think it'd be so good.

00:21:33.040 And I think you should be Elle.

00:21:34.280 Maybe...

00:21:34.920 Makes sense.

00:21:35.600 Maybe you're Vivian.

00:21:37.000 Are you the TERF?

00:21:37.640 I would love to be Vivian.

00:21:38.340 Are you the TERF?

00:21:38.900 I'll be a TERF, yeah.

00:21:40.040 That's the one time in your life that you're just... 1.00

00:21:42.440 It's like, fucking fuck this trans girl. 1.00

00:21:44.720 Oh, my God. 1.00

00:21:45.800 Let me be in the chorus. 0.96

00:21:46.680 Actually, I take it back.

00:21:47.500 Let me be in the chorus. 0.96

00:21:48.300 Oh, that's a good musical.

00:21:49.560 Yeah.

00:21:49.960 I would say Legally Blonde.

00:21:50.920 The Color Purple is one of my favorite ones.

00:21:52.280 Any dream role for you?

00:21:53.500 Like, what kind of acting do you want to do?

00:21:55.220 Like, what kind of role?

00:21:56.220 If, honestly, in acting, I would love to do...

00:21:58.540 Oh, my God.

00:21:58.900 Wait.

00:21:59.760 The Color Purple is my favorite musical that...

00:22:02.240 Is it?

00:22:03.300 Starring Cynthia Eribo.

00:22:04.620 Yes.

00:22:05.180 Oh.

00:22:06.220 I can't with you.

00:22:07.100 That's why I said we're twins.

00:22:08.500 We're literally...

00:22:08.940 The Color Purple is one of my favorite musicals, too.

00:22:10.440 So, specifically with Cynthia Eribo and the year she won her Tony, I watched her perform

00:22:14.080 it live at the Tonys a million times back in 2016.

00:22:16.780 You're a theater girl. 0.94

00:22:17.840 Yes, I am.

00:22:19.260 Oh.

00:22:19.660 I just don't have the chops.

00:22:21.660 I woke up this morning and thought, okay, we're going to the mainstream, you know? 1.00

00:22:27.120 And then I'm sitting here, bitch. 1.00

00:22:28.820 I'm on 42nd Street in Times Square right now, shuffling off to Buffalo. 0.99

00:22:33.100 You know what's a great one?

00:22:34.240 Six.

00:22:35.160 Oh! 0.60

00:22:35.520 I love Six.

00:22:36.720 Oh! 0.60

00:22:39.640 My best friends wrote that!

00:22:41.640 Really?

00:22:42.200 Yes, but...

00:22:42.760 Six is one of my favorite musicals.

00:22:44.280 I took my whole family to go see it because not everyone...

00:22:47.860 Divorced.

00:22:48.620 Not bad.

00:22:49.560 Bad.

00:22:49.680 Girl.

00:22:51.260 Died.

00:22:51.920 Start to finish.

00:22:52.880 I recommend Six to everyone who's, like, if they're not a big fan of musical theater.

00:22:56.880 I love musical theater, but, like...

00:22:58.100 I have a pitch for you.

00:22:59.240 I think it's me, you, next year, Edinburgh Fringe, two, the musical.

00:23:02.960 Yeah.

00:23:03.420 And it's two wives of Henry VIII.

00:23:07.020 Yeah.

00:23:07.860 We cycle through.

00:23:09.420 Yeah, totally.

00:23:10.020 And I think we could.

00:23:10.960 I think so.

00:23:11.660 I'm in.

00:23:12.500 And I always recommend Six because when people aren't really huge fans of musical theater,

00:23:17.920 I'm like, you'll enjoy Six because it's all...

00:23:20.300 It's just a concert.

00:23:21.120 In and out.

00:23:21.880 85 minutes.

00:23:22.540 Exactly.

00:23:23.100 It's real quick.

00:23:24.040 You've got the happy moments.

00:23:25.300 You've got the sad ones. 0.99

00:23:26.400 And it's funny as fuck. 1.00

00:23:28.100 Girl power. 1.00

00:23:29.140 Absolutely.

00:23:29.720 And it's so entertaining.

00:23:30.860 Like, I took everyone in my family, even...

00:23:32.600 And my dad doesn't really care for theater just because, like, he...

00:23:35.260 I don't know why.

00:23:36.120 Like, he just doesn't enjoy it.

00:23:37.760 Even my man is like, yeah, that's cool, whatever.

00:23:39.940 They were having a blast. 0.99

00:23:41.000 They fucked with it? 1.00

00:23:41.300 Yeah, they loved it. 1.00

00:23:42.520 Oh, my God.

00:23:42.600 And I was like, yeah, exactly.

00:23:43.960 I always recommend it.

00:23:44.900 That started at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

00:23:46.720 That's crazy.

00:23:46.900 Did it really?

00:23:47.460 I did not know that.

00:23:48.600 Toby and Lucy wrote it.

00:23:49.480 I'm so happy.

00:23:50.500 And then they just...

00:23:51.100 Actually, you would love this one.

00:23:52.080 They just wrote a musical called Why Am I So Single?

00:23:54.440 And it's like...

00:23:55.180 T.

00:23:55.580 It's us, girl.

00:23:56.960 Oh, my God.

00:23:58.080 I'm so excited.

00:23:58.840 I'm so excited.

00:23:59.680 Also, I haven't seen The Notebook on Broadway, but I heard it's beautiful.

00:24:02.220 Oh, it closed already, honey.

00:24:03.400 I know.

00:24:04.200 If this is love, I'm not.

00:24:06.440 Ingrid Michaelson, who wrote that one, wrote a song for my show.

00:24:09.320 And I love her, too.

00:24:11.100 Wow.

00:24:11.820 We really... 1.00

00:24:12.760 I'm balls deep in that shit, girl. 1.00

00:24:13.860 I just wish we lived a lot closer to each other. 1.00

00:24:16.340 Me, too.

00:24:16.640 Me, too.

00:24:17.320 Oh, my God.

00:24:17.580 I know.

00:24:17.880 We do have to go see a show.

00:24:19.300 Because I haven't seen, like, Husked.

00:24:21.400 Is that what it is?

00:24:22.440 Shucked?

00:24:22.920 A shucked.

00:24:23.240 Not husked. 0.99

00:24:25.060 That sucked. 0.97

00:24:26.420 Oh. 0.98

00:24:26.960 I know it's corn.

00:24:27.560 No, honey.

00:24:28.080 I think husked is the name of your musical.

00:24:31.880 That's mine.

00:24:32.460 Or your second book.

00:24:33.480 Sorry.

00:24:33.860 Working title.

00:24:34.480 Working title.

00:24:35.000 Working title.

00:24:35.520 That we have to put working titles so people know.

00:24:38.640 But I know Alex Newell.

00:24:40.500 Oh, my God.

00:24:41.020 That voice.

00:24:41.940 It's unbelievable.

00:24:43.240 That could be you, too.

00:24:43.380 So that's why I was like...

00:24:44.080 Just two voice lessons.

00:24:45.180 There you go.

00:24:45.820 That's why I was like...

00:24:46.320 Yeah, I know.

00:24:46.980 Me, so.

00:24:47.540 Me, so.

00:24:48.080 But see, that's why I love that we're theater girls.

00:24:51.960 We're in it.

00:24:52.560 Yeah, we're in it.

00:24:53.200 I used to watch the Legally Blonde musical.

00:24:55.140 I used to watch on, like, a pirated, recorded version on YouTube all the time.

00:24:58.160 The MTV version?

00:24:59.100 Yeah.

00:24:59.760 I used to watch it on YouTube.

00:25:00.160 Did you ever watch the reality show where they...

00:25:02.000 Yes, where they auditioned.

00:25:02.700 Search for the next...

00:25:03.460 Mm-hmm.

00:25:03.980 Too good.

00:25:06.800 Too good, girl.

00:25:07.860 I would love to know, when you were doing your one-woman show, what was the hardest part

00:25:12.740 and what was the coolest part?

00:25:14.400 Okay.

00:25:14.920 Because that is such a huge feat and accomplishment to do a one-woman show.

00:25:18.680 And I saw nothing but wonderful reviews about it.

00:25:21.060 I think I got five stars from the Scotsman.

00:25:22.700 Yes, girl.

00:25:22.900 Which was the biggest thing you could get.

00:25:24.420 Okay.

00:25:24.760 That's crazy.

00:25:25.280 I would say the hardest part was, like...

00:25:29.280 I basically didn't sleep for, like, a month.

00:25:31.800 I wrote it three weeks before it started.

00:25:34.740 That's crazy.

00:25:35.620 Do you procrastinate?

00:25:36.560 Yes, all the time.

00:25:37.420 You have no idea.

00:25:38.380 And if you have ADHD, I know it goes crazy, the procrastination.

00:25:41.260 And, like, I swear to God, it will be better because I'm not doing it right now.

00:25:46.940 But then...

00:25:47.700 That's what I tell myself, too.

00:25:48.460 Oh, and I...

00:25:48.920 I work better under pressure.

00:25:49.920 And I cut it close, Hitch.

00:25:51.800 Yeah.

00:25:52.520 Oh, we're grinding it.

00:25:54.080 And I remember, like, I was in London about, like...

00:25:57.260 It was, like, a week before the show started, and there felt like there was something missing.

00:26:00.800 And I'm like, should I write...

00:26:02.140 Should we write another song?

00:26:03.140 And they're like, it's starting.

00:26:04.780 You can't, like...

00:26:05.740 And so I think it was also...

00:26:07.700 Oh, my God.

00:26:08.260 This is the hardest part.

00:26:09.140 But when you've been successful at one thing, like, I made these videos, the next thing

00:26:15.060 is tricky because you don't know if it's gonna hit or if it's gonna pop like the other...

00:26:19.760 And everyone's comparing you to that thing.

00:26:21.920 Yeah. 0.99

00:26:22.260 And then there was also the theater world being like, who's this bitch? 1.00

00:26:25.680 Even though that's where I came from, they're thinking, oh, this TikTok girl is showing 0.97

00:26:30.420 up into this, like, theater festival.

00:26:32.140 Right.

00:26:32.300 So I felt like there was a lot to prove.

00:26:34.400 But I also think that then the best part of it was, oh, my God.

00:26:40.660 I think, like, going out after every night and, like, meeting everyone that came to see

00:26:45.720 the show.

00:26:46.420 And I knew that that was my favorite thing to do in the entire world.

00:26:51.300 I knew that of all the things that I've tried, that's what I should be doing the most

00:26:54.680 of.

00:26:54.920 Right.

00:26:55.080 And it doesn't mean it's the only thing that I should be doing, but, God, it was fun.

00:27:00.680 It just, like, refills your cup.

00:27:01.840 Yeah, and when you do something where you're like, I don't need to be paid for this.

00:27:05.180 Because in theater, you don't make a lot of money doing that.

00:27:07.100 Yeah.

00:27:07.480 But I was like, I would pay to do this.

00:27:10.720 Right.

00:27:11.100 Which actually, my producers, no, I didn't just say that, but I loved it that much.

00:27:17.080 Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:27:18.040 That's how I feel about hosting.

00:27:19.080 Like, it wouldn't matter if money came from it.

00:27:21.180 I just really enjoy doing it.

00:27:22.720 So happy.

00:27:23.220 Yeah.

00:27:23.360 Um, I'm about to do my first, uh, carpet this weekend.

00:27:27.200 And what kind of, like, yeah.

00:27:29.340 Me too. 0.99

00:27:29.860 Shut up. 1.00

00:27:31.000 I'll see you there. 1.00

00:27:31.740 Oh, my God.

00:27:32.380 Thank God.

00:27:33.620 Okay, so what are you, what are some tips for that?

00:27:36.120 Like, I've never done it.

00:27:38.100 I think, well, first of all, you're so magnetic already, naturally, which is half the battle,

00:27:44.120 I think.

00:27:44.540 It's like, it's an aura.

00:27:45.840 Like, when you're, like, fun and welcoming and open, like, they're really cool, like, typically

00:27:50.520 when they come.

00:27:50.980 But you have a lot of famous friends, so you know.

00:27:52.480 Well, and do you notice it's, like, the people that maybe have connected with you online

00:27:56.180 are the ones that want to come talk?

00:27:57.580 Trust me, I know.

00:27:58.300 It works a million times over.

00:28:00.160 And maybe that's why.

00:28:00.740 It makes you look like a superstar.

00:28:01.780 Well, maybe that's why they're hiring us.

00:28:04.200 Absolutely.

00:28:04.980 Because they know that maybe they'll want to talk to us.

00:28:06.980 Yeah, we have, like, a pull.

00:28:08.180 And then also, we're very, like, we're people.

00:28:10.360 We're people girls.

00:28:11.080 People girls. 0.91

00:28:12.000 Is that a thing?

00:28:13.600 Is that a new one?

00:28:15.180 Girls for the people.

00:28:15.760 I don't know if it's going to stick.

00:28:17.380 But for this episode, we're people girls.

00:28:20.560 I don't know if we have.

00:28:21.400 Working title.

00:28:22.300 Working title.

00:28:23.200 Another working title.

00:28:24.480 How about, you like a little gimmick, too.

00:28:27.200 Like, I've seen you hand out some things.

00:28:29.220 I do.

00:28:29.740 And they love a gimmick, too.

00:28:30.940 Like, celebrities, some, like, it depends on branding and, like, who you go with.

00:28:35.120 But, like, some of them are way more fun than others. 1.00

00:28:37.940 Like, some of them are like, yeah, fuck it. 1.00

00:28:39.100 Do anything. 1.00

00:28:39.780 And some of them are like, no, no, no, no.

00:28:41.340 It has to be real, like, straight to the point, whatever.

00:28:44.000 Yes.

00:28:44.560 But even then, I try to think of, like, I do standard questions in the beginning.

00:28:48.740 Like, one or two.

00:28:49.700 And then one kind of fun one that, like, wild.

00:28:52.880 Engages them.

00:28:53.660 Yeah.

00:28:53.940 Isn't inappropriate, but it's still fun.

00:28:55.800 And, like, one of those.

00:28:57.060 Totally.

00:28:57.180 So, like, when I did the White Lotus, obviously, someone dies.

00:28:59.700 Every season.

00:29:00.320 So, I said, can you look in the camera and give them a 10-second pitch why they should

00:29:03.980 not kill you off this season.

00:29:05.200 Oh, that's so good.

00:29:05.940 And they loved it.

00:29:06.860 They were like, oh, my God.

00:29:07.580 That was you?

00:29:07.860 You just came up with that?

00:29:08.720 Yeah, I just came up with it.

00:29:09.920 And HBO was like, sounds good.

00:29:11.940 We love it.

00:29:12.520 Yeah.

00:29:13.140 And the snacks were a huge hit when I did snacks.

00:29:15.120 My manager did say he was just like, try to keep the energy, you know, kind of calm. 0.98

00:29:19.540 Because I'm like, hey, I'm doing it with the fucking song awards. 0.92

00:29:22.960 Like, so, that's what we're going to be working on. 0.98

00:29:25.160 You keep me in check.

00:29:26.240 If you see me with some arms flailing down the aisle.

00:29:30.860 Yeah.

00:29:31.160 But you've seen Teffy host, too.

00:29:33.560 Like, Teffy has a lot of energy, too.

00:29:35.380 Love her.

00:29:36.200 You love.

00:29:36.720 You know what's funny?

00:29:37.520 I've said about Teffy.

00:29:38.680 I've always, because that's my sister.

00:29:40.660 I've literally always say, what you think she's like in real, or what you think I'm like

00:29:45.740 in real life is how Teffy is.

00:29:47.640 And what you think she's like in real life is how I am.

00:29:50.280 Which is like, I'm way more chill than Teffy.

00:29:52.280 Oh, yeah.

00:29:53.040 A thousand percent.

00:29:53.940 Teffy in real life is crazy. 1.00

00:29:55.960 She's crazy. 0.60

00:29:56.400 And see, my funnest nights, it's always true if I'm like out of work thing or something. 0.58

00:30:01.760 And then next thing I know, it's like 4 a.m.

00:30:03.780 I'm at like a private club and I'm like grinding on someone.

00:30:07.560 I look over and she's like, yeah, baby girl.

00:30:09.480 Yeah.

00:30:10.640 And she's always there.

00:30:12.300 Yes.

00:30:12.660 Like with you.

00:30:13.280 And even like, I'll be out with girlfriends who like are fully straight. 0.70

00:30:16.020 And they're like, there's something about that girl that makes me just want to do something.

00:30:19.780 You know?

00:30:20.360 I've said before, she's so easy to fall in love with. 1.00

00:30:22.380 I would rob a bank with that bitch. 1.00

00:30:23.700 Right. 1.00

00:30:23.940 She could convince me to do anything. 0.92

00:30:25.420 And that's literally why I got the last time I got like truly fucked up with Teffy was at the People's Choice Awards. 0.86

00:30:30.540 Yeah. 0.89

00:30:31.780 And it was me, her and Davis Burleson.

00:30:34.040 Oh.

00:30:34.580 And my sister.

00:30:35.360 So good.

00:30:36.400 And we love Davis.

00:30:37.520 Oh, love Davis.

00:30:37.920 And I saw Chris there too.

00:30:39.160 Chris Olsen.

00:30:39.860 Honey, Chris is like everywhere right now as well.

00:30:42.400 I know.

00:30:43.120 We all kind of at that same time. 0.96

00:30:45.420 And all got torn the fuck down at the same time. 0.61

00:30:48.960 We've taken some exits from. 0.91

00:30:51.240 Oh, we sure have, Queen.

00:30:52.460 But, but I will say like, I'm so proud of you.

00:30:56.840 And even like, like now I've been in these meetings.

00:30:59.060 I texted this to you.

00:31:00.200 I think she'd be fine for me to share this.

00:31:02.100 But like, I was in a meeting with Amy Poehler and she like brought you up about how much she loves you and your content and how we need that online.

00:31:10.640 Which single tear rolled on my eye when you sent it to me.

00:31:13.380 When you sent me a voice note, I was like, single tear.

00:31:15.240 But that's, and there was, cause I was scared too that I was like, oh, these people aren't going to want to like work with us or, you know, and they do.

00:31:22.700 Yeah.

00:31:23.140 Like a lot of them.

00:31:24.260 It's crazy how like the people in the industry that they, that are accredited with being actors or theater people or comedians or what have you.

00:31:33.540 They see a lot of potential in us that sometimes we don't even see in ourselves.

00:31:37.900 Right.

00:31:38.420 And they're like, no, no, no.

00:31:39.420 You're, you're a comedian.

00:31:40.480 You're a star.

00:31:40.980 You're, you're a Broadway star.

00:31:42.000 You are.

00:31:42.380 Like they, they tell us that themselves.

00:31:44.400 The internet's what tells us the opposite.

00:31:46.820 Oh yeah.

00:31:47.120 They're like, uh, uh, why are you, why are you there?

00:31:49.300 Why are you there?

00:31:50.140 Yeah.

00:31:50.360 Always get her out. 0.83

00:31:51.340 Yeah.

00:31:51.660 Why, why do you tick tockers get to go to this?

00:31:53.820 Well, cause you're talking about it.

00:31:54.940 That's why.

00:31:55.540 Yeah.

00:31:55.940 Like when I commented.

00:31:57.540 Yeah.

00:31:57.860 Unfortunately for you, you keep saying that and that's why they keep inviting us.

00:32:01.260 It's like, uh, when I was in the NBA commercial last year, like why? 0.97

00:32:05.320 I don't fucking know. 0.97

00:32:06.560 They asked me. 0.98

00:32:07.480 So of course I'm going to go.

00:32:08.260 I say yes.

00:32:08.820 Yeah.

00:32:09.300 And so when I went, I even told people after the, cause obviously men were pissed off.

00:32:13.300 That was my goal.

00:32:14.220 But I've said, whether you like me, like love me, hate me, you know me and you'll talk about me.

00:32:21.240 And that's why they picked me.

00:32:23.140 It's really that simple.

00:32:24.420 So true.

00:32:24.880 And they hate to hear it about you, me and Chris.

00:32:28.860 Chris is everywhere and he's just going to keep being everywhere.

00:32:32.320 I know.

00:32:33.620 Well, I'd love to know more about the book.

00:32:36.040 Uh, what your kind of process was with writing it.

00:32:39.560 I know you said it took about three years just cause you had to kind of pivot a few times.

00:32:43.200 How was the whole process in, in writing it and everything too?

00:32:46.020 I was starting doing Artist's Way, which was this like journaling kind of thing.

00:32:49.400 You ever did that?

00:32:50.140 Yeah.

00:32:50.660 Caleb.

00:32:52.100 And you know, you know, I know Caleb.

00:32:54.800 He said, when my friends start reading the Artist's Way, I'm like,

00:32:57.580 I think I'm going to start checking in on you a little bit more.

00:33:00.160 Something's a little off?

00:33:01.040 He's like, let's get you some shoes with no laces and let's, you know, let's hang out a little bit more.

00:33:05.360 Padded, padded room.

00:33:07.540 Um, going through it.

00:33:08.960 Oh, honey.

00:33:09.600 Right.

00:33:09.880 I, I started the Artist's Way, which yes, red flag right there.

00:33:14.180 And then I was journaling like basically every day of my transition, things that I wasn't sharing online.

00:33:19.660 Believe it or not, if there was anything left, Jesus Christ. 0.90

00:33:22.940 It's, um, just like photos of my nipples basically. 0.97

00:33:25.500 And that's what I was journaling. 0.75

00:33:27.480 And I, so I had all these journals and I thought that was what the book was going to be.

00:33:31.720 Then Beer Gate goes down.

00:33:32.960 Yeah.

00:33:33.480 I was so sad, girl.

00:33:35.160 I bet.

00:33:36.200 Like, oh my God.

00:33:37.140 I never, I didn't know I could feel that low.

00:33:40.400 Yeah.

00:33:40.640 And so when my publisher was like, okay, we're ready for the book.

00:33:43.980 I was like, oh, one minute.

00:33:47.340 Occupado.

00:33:47.740 And so I could not bring myself to like, be like, hey, everyone.

00:33:53.740 Like there was, I was like, so then I, I, I brought on this amazing girl, Marina, who, um, I wrote every single word, but she basically would like sit with me in a Zoom room while I either cried or I asked her questions.

00:34:06.760 And, and I love that we can give her, Marina, you're everything.

00:34:10.860 And so she kind of was able to start asking me questions that like pulled things out and, um, then came these essays.

00:34:18.200 So there's a ton of essays that are in between the journal entries.

00:34:21.740 So the timeline goes first year of transition journals and then essays following Beer Gate.

00:34:27.400 Yeah.

00:34:27.720 And I really, it's, it's messy.

00:34:30.080 I think some people might be like, honey, where, where are we now?

00:34:32.900 But I think that's like, my life is like that.

00:34:35.460 Yeah.

00:34:35.840 And, um, it's so nonlinear and you need, there's healing.

00:34:39.140 And like, so one of the essays is about me doing ayahuasca in Peru, um, which was, oh, would

00:34:45.200 you ever?

00:34:46.340 Maybe.

00:34:46.780 I've heard it's really transformative.

00:34:48.460 I think it just depends.

00:34:49.680 I loved it.

00:34:50.340 Did you?

00:34:51.000 Well, I always knew that I wanted to do it because of Chelsea Handler went and did it.

00:34:55.100 I grew up reading a lot of her books.

00:34:57.000 Yeah.

00:34:57.160 And so that was a huge part too of like knowing that like Amy Poehler, Lena Dunham, like these

00:35:03.000 really funny books by women.

00:35:05.380 That's what I wanted to make.

00:35:06.420 Um, but Chelsea had this like drug doc called Chelsea Does Drugs. 1.00

00:35:10.860 Yeah.

00:35:11.160 And one of them was ayahuasca.

00:35:12.740 And I think it was like 17 when I watched that and I was like, I'm going to go do ayahuasca

00:35:16.400 in Peru.

00:35:17.400 And then like years went by, I always kind of thought about it.

00:35:20.920 Um, and then this, I was like, I need a quick fix and I need it fast.

00:35:25.000 I was like, get me on that plane.

00:35:26.420 And I'll never forget.

00:35:27.360 It was actually a write about this, um, in the book, but I had to go stop at Michaela

00:35:32.220 Naguera's wedding, go to Patsu and, and with Chris Olsen, we're like staying together.

00:35:37.660 And I'm like at the table.

00:35:39.080 Cause you do a dieta, like as I'm literally eating a Percy pig in my hand right now, you

00:35:43.860 like can't eat any, like any sugars, any carbs.

00:35:47.300 Like, wow.

00:35:47.780 And I, so I couldn't eat any, there was nothing left for me and I don't eat meat.

00:35:51.160 Right.

00:35:51.460 So it was just, so I couldn't eat anything.

00:35:53.920 And then, um, Chris looks over like during the, and you can't drink alcohol or anything.

00:35:58.580 I have like a glass of champagne and we're at the, the reception for Michaela and where

00:36:04.020 I'm like, I have a glass of champagne in my hand, like a bowl of mac and cheese in front

00:36:07.300 of me.

00:36:07.600 And he was like, aren't you like supposed to be on some diet?

00:36:10.940 Aren't those, all those things you're not supposed to do.

00:36:13.100 And I was like, babe, if it didn't come out of a microwave, like we're golden.

00:36:15.980 Like that is, it's good for me.

00:36:17.660 And then there was once I, cause that was the day before I took the ayahuasca.

00:36:21.460 Then I get down to Peru that first night and it wasn't working. 0.99

00:36:24.620 And I remember being like, it was the fucking mac and cheese at Michaela's wedding. 0.99

00:36:29.020 Thanks a lot, mac and cheese. 1.00

00:36:30.640 Damn it. 0.98

00:36:31.260 So, um, but like, so there are also like crazy stories that I think people wouldn't expect 0.99

00:36:37.200 from me because they still might see me as this one thing from years ago on videos.

00:36:43.660 One dimensional.

00:36:44.020 Yeah.

00:36:44.420 And I'm really excited.

00:36:45.900 It's very adult.

00:36:46.760 It's like raunchy. 0.52

00:36:47.860 I talk about like my sexcapades.

00:36:50.120 It kind of feels like my Carrie Bradshaw in a way.

00:36:52.840 Too.

00:36:53.200 Love that.

00:36:54.000 And then there's also like, I talk about my family, which is something that I never do

00:36:58.340 online.

00:36:58.820 And I had to share that with, um, you know, my mom and my, what's funny, like my mom

00:37:03.620 like picked apart every single word and like question every like phrasing of everything.

00:37:08.780 And then my dad was like, I trust you.

00:37:11.840 He's like, add some more of me.

00:37:13.620 And like, he didn't, he didn't even read it, but, um, but he's in there.

00:37:17.060 Uh, shout out to Mulvaney.

00:37:18.260 But did you have to like the, any parts of your book that had to do with others?

00:37:21.960 Did you like share that with them or?

00:37:23.680 Yeah, totally.

00:37:24.380 I, I, especially cause in my book, when I wrote about when my sister came out to me and

00:37:30.340 when I wrote about, um, me not wanting kids and why, when I wrote about those two things,

00:37:36.000 I had to like share them.

00:37:37.020 Like, obviously with my sister, I had her, like, I explained exactly like how I was going

00:37:41.500 to write it and in what way I was writing it.

00:37:44.100 And so that she could consent to it too.

00:37:46.460 Cause I was like, we don't have to include this at all if you feel uncomfortable with

00:37:49.640 it.

00:37:49.800 But I feel like it was imperative in my growth as like a woman, as an ally, as like just

00:37:55.960 a general empathetic human being.

00:37:57.380 It was like a huge, um, moving piece for me and becoming a better person and growing

00:38:02.880 and changing and stuff.

00:38:04.200 Because the way I reacted when my sister came out to me, wasn't inherently awful.

00:38:08.580 It wasn't like, I hate you. 1.00

00:38:10.520 You're disgusting. 1.00

00:38:11.280 But it wasn't good either. 1.00

00:38:12.580 It was just unsupportive.

00:38:13.520 And so that's why I felt like it was important to include stuff like that just because it's,

00:38:17.160 it is about you, but it's about your faults.

00:38:18.660 It's about your mistakes. 1.00

00:38:19.540 It's about your, your fuck ups. 0.98

00:38:21.080 It like, it becomes like an example of either what not to do, or it can help people that 0.99

00:38:27.040 are in going to be in that situation eventually, like not do that.

00:38:30.960 That's what I explained to my mom because like our relationship's been so tricky over the

00:38:35.020 years, but I love her and she loves me.

00:38:38.100 And the sort of whole essence of the book is this like relationship, like us finding each

00:38:43.980 other over and over again.

00:38:45.020 It's like the ebbling and flowing of it.

00:38:45.760 Yeah.

00:38:46.040 And, and she felt really frustrated.

00:38:48.440 You know, she was like, oh, you know, I'm being painted this way or what?

00:38:51.440 And then I was like, no, if you look at the entire piece of this, it's that there's always

00:38:55.840 love there.

00:38:56.880 Absolutely.

00:38:57.060 And I think that is way more important for trans kids and their families and allies to

00:39:02.240 read so that they know, like if they aren't starting from a perfect place, which most of

00:39:07.820 us aren't.

00:39:08.400 Yeah.

00:39:08.840 That they can eventually get there.

00:39:11.020 Absolutely.

00:39:11.600 And that like, no matter.

00:39:12.640 Yeah.

00:39:12.820 Yes.

00:39:13.280 Because I grew up so religious in a very conservative household.

00:39:17.040 And the fact that like, we've still managed to figure it out is amazing.

00:39:22.560 Absolutely.

00:39:22.780 And I want to share that with people.

00:39:24.140 Absolutely.

00:39:24.680 And I think that's more authentic.

00:39:27.060 It's, it's real.

00:39:28.240 It's very human. 0.99

00:39:29.060 There's nothing more human than fucking up. 0.98

00:39:30.480 Honestly, there's nothing more human than like growth and changing and realizing what 0.99

00:39:34.740 once you held so dearly actually doesn't serve you.

00:39:37.840 Right.

00:39:38.100 And like, there's nothing I think more empathetic than that is like acknowledging that sometimes

00:39:43.200 two things can be true at the same time.

00:39:44.860 Like you may have been navigating it the best way you knew how, but it also could have been

00:39:48.380 harmful and it could have been hurtful.

00:39:50.140 And maybe it's okay that we acknowledge both of those things happened and we can, and the

00:39:54.640 important part is where you're at now.

00:39:55.880 Like, and like you said, it's so important, especially for the trans community, especially

00:40:00.700 now to hear stories of families who have made it through.

00:40:05.060 Well, I mean, and I had no idea that like, this is the world that this book was going to

00:40:10.280 be coming out to.

00:40:11.080 I'm really scared still that like, I could potentially become like another poster child

00:40:15.820 because of the situation.

00:40:17.980 But I just know that like, we need, we need trans joy anywhere we can find it right now.

00:40:23.040 Absolutely.

00:40:23.340 I think that is a hundred percent the only way to win this battle is like, is, is fine.

00:40:28.860 Like, because I know the, if I keep finding success and joy and feeling beautiful and, you

00:40:35.400 know, owning my womanhood that what they're saying about me and this community isn't true.

00:40:41.020 Like it literally proves them wrong.

00:40:42.780 Absolutely.

00:40:43.520 Point blank.

00:40:43.880 And so I think this book is that, like the fact that I even was able to get published as

00:40:48.980 like a trans woman right now.

00:40:50.480 Absolutely.

00:40:51.100 Very privileged one at that.

00:40:52.320 But I think there's, there's so much joy in this.

00:40:55.900 And I think it is like one of the first ways that I've been able to like show my audience

00:41:00.780 like, Hey, here's a way that you can support me personally.

00:41:03.860 Absolutely.

00:41:04.500 And other trans people, the trans community as a whole, like literature existing written

00:41:10.120 by trans people for trans people is important.

00:41:13.540 For me, I don't really care what most people think about this book, but like I want the dolls

00:41:18.260 to, to be behind it.

00:41:20.200 Absolutely.

00:41:21.020 And it's one of those things I think that makes you so uniquely yourself.

00:41:26.700 Like you are, and I, and I'm saying this openly and honestly, I have, me and Dylan have been

00:41:32.620 good friends for a while.

00:41:33.640 We have.

00:41:34.060 But Dylan is a very, very pure person.

00:41:36.520 Like you are such a good person to your core, a very selfless person.

00:41:40.120 I feel, I feel a little less earnest than when I was first on the show.

00:41:44.620 And then I even, I will say too, I think like I've gotten better at like trying to put

00:41:49.260 up a front a little bit because of, uh, just everything that's happened.

00:41:53.580 But at the end of the day, like, we're just like, we're baby girls.

00:41:57.980 Like, like we just, we're just teenage girls navigating the world.

00:42:01.720 And I think, um, it's, it's scary.

00:42:04.100 Like I'm not going to lie and say I'm not scared, but, um, I am really proud to like

00:42:09.500 have something like this going out there. 0.99

00:42:11.340 Well, that's because you're fucking brave. 0.98

00:42:12.600 You are. 0.99

00:42:13.140 And you always have been.

00:42:13.940 You've been brave from the day you started posting until now, and you're still doing

00:42:17.500 it now.

00:42:17.940 Even, even coming back after beer gate shows how courageous and brave you are.

00:42:22.940 But what I love about you is that you have boundaries.

00:42:25.160 Like, I think you've gotten really good at being honest about what you need, even from

00:42:30.060 millions of people.

00:42:31.880 And, and they don't always want to give that to you, but then you demand it.

00:42:36.420 And that's something that I want to really work on.

00:42:38.880 Thank you.

00:42:39.560 You know, what's sweet, you know, what's funny about that is Chris, Chris told me that

00:42:42.800 and, um, chapels told me that like, that's a big reason why chapel loves me.

00:42:46.820 And she's told me is because I stand up for myself.

00:42:50.320 And she said, like, she's told me before I admired that about you.

00:42:53.200 Like, like boundaries, setting boundaries with fans or people who hate you.

00:42:56.620 Can I tell you a secret?

00:42:57.620 Please do.

00:42:58.300 I got so stoned.

00:42:59.740 Like it's probably like a month ago and I was down.

00:43:04.100 Like I was like, what is going on?

00:43:07.860 Like, but like in a sad way, like I thought I was like my career, my life, my love.

00:43:13.020 Sometimes it does.

00:43:13.880 It's all bad.

00:43:15.560 And then I, I got a notification.

00:43:19.040 It was like chapel Rhone liked your video or something.

00:43:21.360 And, you know, we follow each other.

00:43:22.580 And I said, I made something that chapel Rhone enjoyed enough to like, I say, that's pretty

00:43:28.520 good.

00:43:29.160 And I'm doing, I'm not kidding.

00:43:31.080 I started skipping through the house.

00:43:32.640 I was like, I, I mean, I was like the people that I love, enjoy what I'm doing, enjoy me

00:43:39.320 as a person.

00:43:40.360 And there's a lot of other people that maybe don't, but those aren't really my kind of people.

00:43:45.420 And, and how great that the, the people that I look up to the most, the lady gagas, the

00:43:50.180 chapels, like these are people that support and, and that are behind, and like, I just hate

00:43:56.260 the idea of wasting energy on, on those haters.

00:44:00.360 Me too.

00:44:01.100 And I, and I, you know, what's funny is me and Caleb actually talked about this, that

00:44:04.980 you and I are two sides of the same coin in a lot of ways.

00:44:08.400 Like we've talked about how the way you handle hate and any sort of vitriol at all is with

00:44:13.860 beauty and grace and compassion.

00:44:16.060 Like you, you are still being so brave and so courageous and still finding joy.

00:44:20.000 Even when people are determined to take it from you, mine's a little more violent than

00:44:24.740 that, but I was like, I love the way Dylan handles it.

00:44:27.960 And Dylan loves the way I handle it because we're two different people wishing we could

00:44:31.320 have the other.

00:44:31.980 And I want the other, but I, so I have been sitting on an insult that I have been waiting

00:44:37.140 to use and I don't know who I'm going to drop it here, but, and then you'll know when

00:44:42.180 I've cashed in on it.

00:44:43.240 Right.

00:44:44.280 It is. 1.00

00:44:45.060 Um, so say who, you know, whoever it is, I want, I want to say, um, suck my girl dick and 1.00

00:44:52.400 stay down there long enough to eat me out when it's a vagina. 1.00

00:44:57.700 And that's a damn good one. 1.00

00:44:59.200 Thank you. 0.98

00:44:59.760 I bet that that took years to put together.

00:45:03.300 She's been cooking that one. 1.00

00:45:04.100 I also, I, I've oscillate between vagina and pussy depending on kind of what the vibe 1.00

00:45:08.620 I got to read the room a little bit. 0.99

00:45:09.800 Really do.

00:45:10.620 You never know.

00:45:11.520 And, and so that's, I've got one and I'm ready when there's a girl, that's a great

00:45:16.840 one.

00:45:17.160 It, thank you.

00:45:17.880 That's a great one.

00:45:18.480 It feels timely.

00:45:19.380 It feels like topical, relatable, it's all the points.

00:45:23.280 Thank you so much.

00:45:24.220 Wow.

00:45:24.900 I got, got it cleared by the, uh, by the coach.

00:45:28.220 I said, I mean, I got a big green stamp for me.

00:45:32.520 Well, before we move on, I'm going to, I have some fun facts about you. 0.99

00:45:36.100 Oh shit. 0.98

00:45:36.740 That's where we're kind of, where'd we get those famous birthdays.com. 1.00

00:45:41.520 Okay.

00:45:41.960 It says, it says you're an official certified vinyasa yoga teacher.

00:45:46.120 Yes.

00:45:46.560 Hell yeah.

00:45:47.040 No, I, that was pre-transition days.

00:45:53.380 And, um, I was going through a, a, a, a dark breakup situation.

00:45:58.800 Right.

00:45:59.160 And instead of ayahuasca that time, that was yoga.

00:46:02.000 Right.

00:46:02.380 And, and it worked.

00:46:04.000 I taught classes at the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music and the rec set.

00:46:07.340 No, University of Cincinnati and the rec center.

00:46:09.200 I did that for about six months and, and it was great.

00:46:12.420 Can I tell you, Dylan is someone who truly like, if she wants to learn a new skill, she

00:46:17.920 just goes and joins a class and learns the skill, masters it.

00:46:21.380 And then goes, all right, I don't think I'm going to move on to the next thing.

00:46:23.840 I think we're, I think we wrapped.

00:46:25.420 Yeah.

00:46:25.540 I think I got the gist.

00:46:26.660 It's done.

00:46:27.200 Once you become like a certified master in it, she's like, yeah, okay.

00:46:30.680 Well, yeah.

00:46:31.240 That's it.

00:46:32.000 You're a woman of many hats. 1.00

00:46:33.140 That's true.

00:46:33.460 True, true fact.

00:46:34.680 It says on here, uh, her dad is known as the cookie man around San Diego.

00:46:38.940 He loves to bake cookies and gives them away to people for free.

00:46:41.640 She once said he bakes 500 cookies a week.

00:46:44.140 Have you had one yet?

00:46:45.060 No, of course not.

00:46:46.020 Oh my God.

00:46:46.720 I would know.

00:46:48.520 They are, we call them the kitchen sink.

00:46:50.500 They've got everything.

00:46:52.380 Cashews, macadamias, white chocolate, dark chocolate, milk chocolate, um, peppermint,

00:46:57.220 uh, like anything.

00:46:58.520 Like sometimes he puts those whole, you know, Costco.

00:47:00.840 Yes.

00:47:01.160 Uh, the turtles, like the chocolate turtles, he'll put those right in there and just, it's

00:47:06.040 that big.

00:47:06.960 And, um, he makes 500 a week.

00:47:09.340 He, he's, uh, in the program and he's now sober, which he's okay with me sharing.

00:47:13.800 Yeah.

00:47:14.000 But, um, that's what he's now addicted to is making cookies.

00:47:17.160 What a great addiction.

00:47:18.540 Expensive.

00:47:19.160 Yeah.

00:47:19.440 Because macadamia nuts these days skyrocketing.

00:47:24.960 Yeah. 1.00

00:47:25.420 The price of nuts didn't go down when they put that fucking bigot in the office. 1.00

00:47:28.440 That's crazy how that works. 1.00

00:47:31.160 Uh, also how sweet your dad just going around handing out cookies.

00:47:34.900 I, it does get a little weird on the beach though.

00:47:36.660 If like he like gives him like a three-year-old and mom's like, Jimmy, come back.

00:47:41.260 Don't take that cookie.

00:47:42.800 Or people think they're like weed cookies.

00:47:44.920 He's like, no, that's what I'm running from.

00:47:49.140 No way.

00:47:49.920 You're, you're misunderstanding.

00:47:50.720 It says you were in glee club in high school.

00:47:54.240 Oh, you know what?

00:47:55.580 That was.

00:47:58.000 Hurry me.

00:47:58.620 Like, let me explain.

00:48:00.080 We try to get it up and running there.

00:48:01.920 I was a cathedral Catholic.

00:48:03.160 Like, and, um, for all my San Diegans watching.

00:48:06.640 And, uh, I mean, I think they were like flying our football team private.

00:48:10.580 Like it was, it was one of those schools where like those, the football team was wearing like

00:48:15.340 Versace and the theater kids were like in, you know, just like painted.

00:48:21.340 They look like the Les Mis kids.

00:48:23.040 It was, but not on purpose.

00:48:25.260 But not on purpose.

00:48:25.560 That was the budget.

00:48:26.620 And so we try to get the, it was the peak of glee.

00:48:29.500 Actually, maybe a little, you know, like maybe fifth season.

00:48:31.820 Yes.

00:48:32.440 Yes.

00:48:32.960 And so we really try to get it going.

00:48:35.280 It, it never took off.

00:48:37.980 And then I think I got out before the house burnt down.

00:48:43.580 Yeah.

00:48:44.240 But you had a hand in trying to kick it off.

00:48:46.360 Totally.

00:48:46.900 But you loved glee.

00:48:47.440 And you know what?

00:48:48.040 I will say when I don't master something, I also know when to leave.

00:48:51.220 Right.

00:48:51.560 And I say, we're done.

00:48:52.860 You abandoned ship.

00:48:53.200 I do.

00:48:54.200 You know when to call it.

00:48:55.600 I did.

00:48:56.020 When to fold them.

00:48:57.280 Also, did you like, you liked Glee the show, right?

00:48:59.580 Oh, it's everything.

00:49:00.900 Chris Colfer.

00:49:01.980 Yeah.

00:49:02.640 That falsetto.

00:49:05.360 He's, he's one, he's interviewing me on one of the stops on my book tour.

00:49:07.740 I'm so happy.

00:49:08.380 Oh my God. 0.99

00:49:09.000 How fucking fun. 0.99

00:49:09.980 My sister and I were on. 0.99

00:49:12.600 Oh, the Glee podcast.

00:49:13.720 Yeah.

00:49:13.920 The Glee podcast, which was a blast.

00:49:16.300 So.

00:49:16.600 And I talked about how I'm not going to teach your boyfriend how to dance with you.

00:49:20.180 They were like, I was kind of shocked.

00:49:22.000 They were saying like, I don't know why so many women like that one. 1.00

00:49:24.680 And I said, my theory is that when you watch Darren Criss perform it, because obviously

00:49:28.800 Darren Criss plays a gay man in the show.

00:49:30.440 When you watch it, straight girls are kind of like, hold on a second. 1.00

00:49:34.000 Wait, hold on a second.

00:49:34.840 You're like, he might be eating it up a little bit.

00:49:37.440 So good.

00:49:38.480 Yeah.

00:49:39.000 They're like attracted to him.

00:49:40.520 So they're like, wait, actually, I love this camera.

00:49:42.220 Culturally queer. 1.00

00:49:43.000 When I had Rebecca Black on, we joked about her. 0.95

00:49:48.000 Obviously, we joked about Friday.

00:49:49.340 Like she was talking about it.

00:49:50.500 She was like saying that was her 9-11 right when she had Friday.

00:49:54.420 Yeah.

00:49:54.640 And then I said, true, true.

00:49:56.740 I said, but in my head, I thought of this joke and I forgot to bring it up on the episode.

00:50:01.200 So now I have to bring it up here.

00:50:03.100 At least she got a Glee cover out of it. 0.97

00:50:05.200 They did Friday?

00:50:06.440 Yeah, they absolutely did.

00:50:07.480 They better paid her for that. 0.90

00:50:08.520 So I said, a Glee cover, small price to pay.

00:50:11.340 I wish I had a Glee cover.

00:50:12.060 I'm still waiting for my Days of Girlhood cover on Glee.

00:50:15.360 So waiting.

00:50:16.420 Reboot.

00:50:17.360 Tell Chris Colfer to get to it.

00:50:20.180 Okay.

00:50:20.640 What else do we have on here?

00:50:21.800 It says, Dylan performed in How the Grinch Stole Christmas at the Old Globe in San Diego

00:50:26.440 when she was just 12 years old.

00:50:28.420 Did I ever? 1.00

00:50:29.220 And it was 10, bitch. 1.00

00:50:30.660 I was from 10 to 14, actually. 0.99

00:50:33.960 Okay, and T.

00:50:34.620 I got Danny Hu.

00:50:36.160 And actually, in my book, I talk about how my divorced parents showed up to my middle

00:50:42.240 school with a bottle of Martin Malley's, and I thought they were getting back together.

00:50:46.060 And then they were like, no, you're Danny Hu in How the Grinch Stole Christmas.

00:50:49.320 I was like, that's way better than you guys getting back together.

00:50:52.220 You said, okay, okay, I forgive you.

00:50:54.160 That's the one piece of news that could have made this better.

00:50:56.520 They fixed it.

00:50:57.200 Um, and I, uh, I, so I, I grew up around, like, these gay adult professionals.

00:51:05.280 I'm like, also, why did me saying gay sound like, it was like, I was describing them as

00:51:09.400 like, gay, like, I don't know why. 1.00

00:51:12.560 Like you were insulting them? 0.78

00:51:13.620 Yeah, I did feel like that for a second.

00:51:15.320 Um, uh, but it was, it was such a special time in my life.

00:51:19.040 I was Danny Hu.

00:51:19.680 I graduated to Teen Wrangler.

00:51:21.300 Love.

00:51:21.860 Um, good musical, honey.

00:51:23.500 You gotta put that one on the list.

00:51:25.460 We'll take a trip down to San Diego.

00:51:27.500 Right.

00:51:27.640 I gotta get into that.

00:51:29.100 It says you were a huge Jesse McCartney fan as a teen.

00:51:31.980 I don't want another pretty face.

00:51:32.580 Finding several stand posts about Jesse on Dylan's old social media.

00:51:38.100 Uh-oh.

00:51:38.520 And you went to see her perform at the mall?

00:51:40.500 Oh, yeah.

00:51:40.920 I went.

00:51:41.960 And like, it is, beautiful song.

00:51:45.840 He's got a, I, my, my email was dylanlovesjesse at yahoo.com.

00:51:49.320 Um, and I was straight.

00:51:51.740 And, um, I, I did go during, um, did you ever watch Stuck in the Stubber?

00:51:57.300 It's a good life.

00:51:58.720 So why I'll sip.

00:51:59.900 I'm friends with Brenda, uh, Brenda now.

00:52:02.420 Love.

00:52:02.900 So.

00:52:03.460 Taryn Killam as the love interest.

00:52:05.040 So hot.

00:52:05.940 Interesting.

00:52:06.460 But, um, Jesse had a song in that, but I went to the mall performance when he was doing,

00:52:10.280 I'm ready.

00:52:11.180 You're ready.

00:52:12.200 We're ready.

00:52:12.840 Right.

00:52:13.240 Not the top of the top, but I loved him at every face.

00:52:17.640 And you know what?

00:52:18.780 Even this.

00:52:20.140 I tried.

00:52:21.360 Woo, woo, woo. 1.00

00:52:22.820 Oh, shit. 1.00

00:52:23.860 These purses are getting to me, baby. 1.00

00:52:26.120 Um, I, I like laced them with something.

00:52:28.500 Could you imagine?

00:52:29.200 Um, I tried to hire Jesse for my year two of girlhood celebration to sing Beautiful Soul

00:52:35.040 for like the, I'm like, will you come support the Trevor Project?

00:52:38.100 Like we're like trying to put this thing.

00:52:39.460 Got the sweetest note back that was like, can't make it this time.

00:52:43.200 Um, but like, it is funny that that was basically my sweet 16 to like, be like, can we get Jesse

00:52:48.660 McCartney?

00:52:50.020 And I would have sat on a chair probably and made him sing it to me.

00:52:53.720 Like a one less lonely girl kind of situation.

00:52:56.000 Oh, that's a dream.

00:52:57.500 Yeah.

00:52:57.840 That, I mean, was Jesse the only one you fangirled over?

00:53:00.660 I mean, I loved Zac Efron.

00:53:02.520 Right.

00:53:03.080 I loved, um.

00:53:04.600 Big high school musical fan.

00:53:06.180 It was my first musical that I was ever in.

00:53:08.060 I played Ryan.

00:53:08.800 I'd be Sharpay now.

00:53:09.500 Who are you and you are, who are you?

00:53:13.660 I'm Sharpay.

00:53:14.420 I think you've got Sharpay.

00:53:15.520 Right.

00:53:16.040 But this time you play Sharpay.

00:53:17.600 I'll play Ryan. 1.00

00:53:18.360 Oh shit. 1.00

00:53:19.060 Okay. 1.00

00:53:19.620 Gender band Ryan.

00:53:20.940 I love that for us.

00:53:22.080 I was obsessed with high school musical when it came out.

00:53:24.420 It's everything.

00:53:25.020 I loved it. 0.98

00:53:26.040 And none of my friends gave a fuck, but I did. 0.99

00:53:28.440 You're the only one. 0.99

00:53:29.200 Yeah.

00:53:29.400 I was the only, it's so much so that when I graduated from, I think like eighth grade,

00:53:35.360 cause it came out a couple, I think I was in eighth grade a couple of years after it

00:53:38.400 came out, but like I, those little shoes that Gabriella wears all throughout the first 1.00

00:53:43.240 high school musical.

00:53:44.000 What are they?

00:53:44.700 They're like the tiniest little like Mary Jane with the tiniest little heel.

00:53:49.080 She wears them with every outfit throughout the entire movie.

00:53:51.400 Go clock it. 0.99

00:53:52.520 I wanted those so fucking bad. 0.95

00:53:54.560 I was like telling mom, I have to find these shoes. 0.96

00:53:57.040 They're not even a kidney heel.

00:53:58.080 Not even.

00:53:58.600 It's like.

00:53:58.820 They're like a preemie.

00:54:00.440 Yeah.

00:54:01.380 It's a preemie heel.

00:54:03.120 It's a, it's a two centimeter high heel. 1.00

00:54:04.880 Oh shit. 0.97

00:54:05.340 In a close, a round toe. 1.00

00:54:06.700 You thought that was, I said, she's eating that shit up every little, like, Oh, I love 0.99

00:54:13.300 that noise. 1.00

00:54:14.240 Yeah.

00:54:14.680 I used to call them clappy shoes as a girl.

00:54:17.120 I was like, I need their heels, but I needed a heel.

00:54:19.480 So far.

00:54:20.080 That's why I said like, I've been, uh, that girl, that kind of girl forever.

00:54:24.200 Like, I'm like, I need a heel.

00:54:25.640 I need a lash. 1.00

00:54:26.580 I need a nail. 0.87

00:54:27.480 I love it.

00:54:28.120 That's one of those.

00:54:28.980 Why?

00:54:29.220 I hate that.

00:54:29.760 I had to, I gave that up for a second and I'm back.

00:54:32.660 I'm full.

00:54:33.780 No, you're making it up for lost time now.

00:54:35.900 I had to.

00:54:36.540 Obviously.

00:54:37.260 Oh my God.

00:54:39.100 Okay.

00:54:39.540 Let's see this last one.

00:54:40.880 Oh yeah.

00:54:41.200 It says, it talks about, uh, your solo show.

00:54:44.160 Oh, Edinburgh.

00:54:44.940 At the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

00:54:47.200 What's your dream role?

00:54:48.220 I would love to know what your dream role would be.

00:54:49.800 Elle Woods, Lili Blonde, Linda and Wicked.

00:54:52.280 Obviously.

00:54:52.840 It has to be.

00:54:53.620 This is crazy.

00:54:54.460 Do you know Sondheim?

00:54:55.680 Like, do you get Stephen Sondheim?

00:54:56.840 Yes, of course.

00:54:57.380 Um, I would love to do Mrs. Lovett.

00:55:00.000 And like, Annalie Ashford, she was in the, she's on the album for Legally Blonde. 0.50

00:55:04.300 Yeah.

00:55:04.680 She's like, dear Elle.

00:55:05.420 Yeah.

00:55:05.960 Um, she played Mrs. Lovett recently.

00:55:08.020 It was so good at that.

00:55:09.140 I would love to do that one day.

00:55:11.180 Um, but I want to go see a show with you now.

00:55:13.680 We have to go see one together.

00:55:15.000 We're gonna.

00:55:15.520 Chris Wilson will come too.

00:55:16.560 Oh, of course.

00:55:17.240 Teffy, but like, she won't care. 0.99

00:55:18.580 She won't care.

00:55:19.040 But she'll, no, she'll be like, I'll be at the bar. 0.52

00:55:20.760 Meet you after.

00:55:21.180 Like when we were at Wicked?

00:55:22.840 She's back, no, she's backstage. 0.99

00:55:23.940 Like, like fucking grinding on the stage manager or something. 0.99

00:55:27.500 I know we look on the stage. 0.99

00:55:29.080 She has a role.

00:55:29.800 She's in.

00:55:30.300 She's in.

00:55:32.720 Ad-libbing everything.

00:55:34.560 Okay.

00:55:34.940 I'm going to circle back to your book.

00:55:36.820 Deal.

00:55:37.160 What would you say was the hardest thing to write about?

00:55:39.960 Ooh.

00:55:40.940 Um, I think, uh, Beergate had to, I mean, cause first of all, I was like, oh, I don't want

00:55:47.400 to get sued.

00:55:47.700 But, um, also I, I think like to, to try to put into words how like disassociation so

00:55:57.700 clearly feels and how, especially being someone that is seen as a very positive person to then

00:56:03.780 try to tell people how that manifests when it goes the opposite way.

00:56:09.040 Um, that was tricky and scary, but very, um, cathartic.

00:56:15.220 And I also think there were some parts of my childhood that I had never shared that it's,

00:56:21.060 it's hard because I also, my mom, um, the other day she, she was like, oh, you know,

00:56:27.700 can I read a physical copy?

00:56:29.220 I was like, there's parts like, I don't know if I want you reading about like the sex and

00:56:32.320 like stuff, you know, when I was young, like, and she's like, oh God, you know?

00:56:36.500 And she's like, well, um, she was like, I like the parts where you write about God.

00:56:40.840 Cause I do write about my, my relationship with the higher power.

00:56:44.580 Yeah.

00:56:44.960 And I was like, I don't think God would care that much if I wrote about sex.

00:56:48.380 And she was like, I don't know about that.

00:56:50.400 And I was like, well then why do you make it feel so good?

00:56:52.820 And then, and then she's like, I don't know. 0.98

00:56:54.560 And then I was like, why did he put a G spot in a guy's butthole? 0.61

00:56:58.240 You know, like there's so many questions that are answered and she, and she didn't have 0.97

00:57:01.500 one.

00:57:01.800 She didn't have an answer.

00:57:02.940 She said, what are you doing for the Superbowl?

00:57:04.820 She said, anyway, what's it about podcasts that you come on and you just will say anything? 0.99

00:57:14.900 It's fucked up. 0.98

00:57:16.100 It's a real truth serum. 1.00

00:57:17.120 It's insane.

00:57:18.060 Yeah.

00:57:18.440 It goes pretty crazy over here.

00:57:20.020 I feel like with your ability to articulate something like that, I think will be very impactful

00:57:26.580 for a lot of reasons.

00:57:28.180 I hope people who read it are not just people obviously who want to and need to.

00:57:32.120 I hope it's people too, who maybe don't see things like that as like that big of a deal

00:57:37.720 to people like us when they happen.

00:57:39.820 Right.

00:57:39.940 They're like, well, that's just part of it.

00:57:41.500 The way they say.

00:57:42.280 They think that you're a character.

00:57:43.800 Yeah.

00:57:44.000 They rationalize.

00:57:44.600 It's like fiction.

00:57:45.780 And it's like, there's a real person that's like experiencing these things.

00:57:49.120 Yeah.

00:57:49.160 And I think too, like, it just is breaking my heart.

00:57:53.280 Like, I think the suicide rates of trans people are up so high right now.

00:57:58.680 And I remember during that time, it so clearly felt like that was an answer to like the problem.

00:58:05.060 And I hate that that's where my mind went, but that feels kind of like where society wants

00:58:11.320 us to go in our minds because they want us to feel so isolated.

00:58:14.620 They want us to feel like there are no other ways out.

00:58:18.380 And so if I like, I'm thinking about little Dylan, but like the little Dylans of today 1.00

00:58:23.920 that like knowing that there are ways out of this that are not that.

00:58:28.640 And yeah, please don't.

00:58:30.200 Yeah.

00:58:30.460 Um, I, I, oh God, it just kills me what's going on.

00:58:34.060 I know.

00:58:34.560 I agree.

00:58:35.220 Same.

00:58:35.820 That's why I think your book is so important.

00:58:37.760 I think your presence in general is so impactful and important in so many different ways.

00:58:41.300 And I feel like a lot of people don't talk about like, there are other trans women who

00:58:45.760 are huge names now too as well.

00:58:47.960 But like what people, I think yourself included only see is like the end product.

00:58:53.240 They don't see any of the before or how terrible it was or how hard it was.

00:58:56.820 It is.

00:58:57.400 It's hard to blaze trails. 0.96

00:58:59.080 It's, it's fucking hard to go first. 0.96

00:59:01.180 It's hard to be the first, the first that people see, the first that people come in 0.97

00:59:05.240 contact with.

00:59:06.080 Like you also want to be the answer for whatever someone's problem is.

00:59:09.640 So you're like trying to take on all these roles that you're not ready for, or, you know,

00:59:13.940 I'm not an activist.

00:59:15.040 I still don't think of myself that way.

00:59:17.040 Yeah.

00:59:17.380 And so that was really tricky too.

00:59:19.200 But like now I feel like you didn't, you went to the white house, right?

00:59:22.520 At one point.

00:59:23.220 Did you ever visit?

00:59:23.800 I've been to the white house. 0.84

00:59:24.640 Yes.

00:59:25.040 She's been to the white house.

00:59:26.100 But, but like, I think like, um, for you, you've done a really good job of like deciding

00:59:31.520 when and how you want to advocate and, and you do it so often, but in ways that feel right

00:59:36.880 to you.

00:59:37.400 Yeah.

00:59:37.700 And I feel like that for me, it's, it's now being on, on my kind of, um, own personal

00:59:44.440 choice and versus it being like, um, someone's telling me that this is what I need to do

00:59:49.940 versus me wanting to.

00:59:51.860 Yeah.

00:59:52.400 And if the whole point is to avoid performative nature or, or acts in general, then it has

00:59:58.560 to be natural and organic in that, in that sense.

01:00:00.720 But I also think too, the understanding of good faith and good people is so warped now

01:00:07.300 where it's just it now, like nothing you've ever done up until this point matters. 0.96

01:00:11.860 It's just, it's almost like the clock restarts every single day, which I think is fucked up 0.93

01:00:16.560 in a lot of ways.

01:00:17.360 Like, especially for people who have consistently and fervently cared.

01:00:20.580 Like even with this last election, I still in like a couple of weeks ago got comments 0.98

01:00:27.020 about someone saying, I never made it clear who the fuck I voted for. 0.99

01:00:30.020 Is that a joke? 0.99

01:00:31.080 Like I said, hello, I feel like I'm on the Truman show.

01:00:34.840 Cause then I think you and I don't have a choice, but to be political.

01:00:37.920 Cause our lives are political and that person didn't see that video. 1.00

01:00:42.080 That's why just look at me, bitch. 1.00

01:00:44.200 What do you think is what I want to say? 0.99

01:00:46.040 Like, that's what I always think. 1.00

01:00:47.240 I'm like, use your fucking brain. 1.00

01:00:48.540 Like really think about it. 1.00

01:00:50.000 Like actually think about what could possibly be the reason that you would ever think otherwise.

01:00:56.480 Like just ask yourself that question.

01:00:58.400 And I also think too, in taking my break and everything, cause I know you took a break

01:01:02.300 too.

01:01:02.640 I took a break.

01:01:03.260 I talked to Chris about it in some ways I'm still on it.

01:01:07.880 I feel like it re-centered me in a lot of ways, but it helped me a lot to like, remember

01:01:13.400 why I started doing this in the first place.

01:01:15.380 What I love about it.

01:01:16.600 Like, that's why I loved what you were saying about your one woman show, because it is so 1.00

01:01:20.500 important to remember why we started doing this in the first place.

01:01:23.660 Like we didn't ask for this to happen.

01:01:25.680 It just did.

01:01:26.260 And we fell into it and we're so grateful and so happy about it.

01:01:30.540 But at the same time, it comes with issues that no one could ever understand how to deal

01:01:36.160 with or navigate.

01:01:37.520 It's just us.

01:01:38.380 Like we're the only people who can understand.

01:01:40.180 So sometimes when new people come up, I always tell them, make friends, make friends with other

01:01:44.440 creators.

01:01:45.220 Yes.

01:01:45.700 Ask about, you know, like how other people are getting paid and what events are, you know,

01:01:50.400 like, yes, because I think they, in a way, these platforms probably also want us to be

01:01:55.440 isolated because then it feels like we have to be alone in turning these products out.

01:02:01.160 Right.

01:02:01.860 And I don't like being a part of anyone else's agenda.

01:02:05.280 Me too.

01:02:05.860 Exactly.

01:02:06.380 And I've said that too.

01:02:07.400 I'm like, I'm so tired of being used as like an example as if I'm not a real person.

01:02:13.340 And I know you're tired of being treated that way too.

01:02:15.980 It's like being treated as like an idea.

01:02:17.560 What was your favorite part of the break?

01:02:19.060 Like never looking at TikTok.

01:02:21.080 Oh, that was my favorite part.

01:02:22.560 I had never felt so free.

01:02:24.500 I was like, did you feel like when it was down for that 12 hours, did you like, did you

01:02:30.560 feel like a sense of freedom or did you feel like, what did you feel?

01:02:34.740 I felt sadness more so for the, all the wonderful things that TikTok has brought into my life.

01:02:40.240 But generally I was like, I'll be all right.

01:02:44.640 Next.

01:02:46.080 Did you get a red note?

01:02:47.400 No, no, I didn't actually.

01:02:49.480 Yeah.

01:02:49.620 I never ended up getting one.

01:02:50.600 I was, and I think, you know, this too, Chris, we talked about this, Chris too, but like,

01:02:54.740 it's always been a vehicle.

01:02:56.900 It's never been the end goal.

01:02:58.400 Like you and I, we've talked about that for a long time.

01:03:00.920 Like we, we have bigger plans.

01:03:02.420 It's 50 years from now on fashion.

01:03:05.280 Exactly.

01:03:05.900 Those plans are set in motion.

01:03:07.600 Right.

01:03:07.960 And so I was like, it's never been the end goal.

01:03:10.340 It's always been a vehicle.

01:03:11.240 That's how I've been looking at it.

01:03:12.480 Yeah.

01:03:13.000 And for years, I know you have too.

01:03:14.680 So I know that's why I wasn't as like about it, but I was sad about it, obviously.

01:03:19.700 But also, I made one of those videos.

01:03:21.760 Me too.

01:03:22.200 The, oh, I had, you know, like, I really cared.

01:03:25.620 I didn't confess to anything because I didn't have anything else to confess.

01:03:28.940 I didn't have anything to confess to.

01:03:30.140 Me either.

01:03:30.500 But I, I did like, I, I felt so like just sad.

01:03:35.200 I felt sad.

01:03:35.740 And I felt sad because I felt nostalgic too.

01:03:38.000 Like I was thinking about the last few years and how much fun I had and like what it brought

01:03:41.840 me and gave me.

01:03:42.980 Yeah.

01:03:43.120 So I did feel sad, but I was also like, well, I mean, I'll keep, I'll keep going.

01:03:47.840 Speaking of nostalgic, who was your Jesse McCartney?

01:03:50.380 Oh, the Jonas Brothers.

01:03:51.480 Oh, you.

01:03:51.940 Nick Jonas.

01:03:52.280 Oh, and you like did the experience with them.

01:03:54.900 Oh, hell yeah, girl. 1.00

01:03:55.600 I met them as adults.

01:03:56.640 Yeah.

01:03:56.700 Honey, he's going to be on Broadway.

01:03:59.340 That's right.

01:04:00.020 He is.

01:04:00.120 You want to go?

01:04:00.820 I would love to.

01:04:01.920 We're going to see the last five years on Broadway starring Nick Jonas.

01:04:04.700 And I also love that.

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01:05:06.020 Jeremy Jordan in The Last Five Years.

01:05:07.720 Oh, you love Last Five Years, too?

01:05:09.300 Yes. 1.00

01:05:09.740 Oh my god, that song, they all fuck me up. 0.99

01:05:12.400 Jamie is over, Jamie is over. 0.99

01:05:14.340 Yeah, Jeremy Jordan and Anna Kendrick in The Last Five Years Movie.

01:05:17.100 Oh.

01:05:18.220 Yeah.

01:05:18.820 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:20.320 Yeah, exactly. 0.90

01:05:22.300 And then I wonder why all my friends are gay, for real. 0.97

01:05:25.240 Like, they're theater kids. 0.93

01:05:26.540 Yeah, all of them. 0.96

01:05:27.620 It is weird when gay people don't like theater. 0.99

01:05:29.680 I'm like, what? 0.79

01:05:30.340 I just went on a gay cruise, like, for like-

01:05:32.080 Oh my gosh, tell me about the gay cruise. 1.00

01:05:33.380 I thought your stories were so fun. 0.87

01:05:34.220 If there was one other woman that should have been on that ship, it was you. 0.97

01:05:37.740 I, actually, and your mom.

01:05:39.580 Maybe even your mom more than you.

01:05:41.920 I, also the love that I have for your mom, it just, it knows no bounds. 0.97

01:05:47.120 I was on this gay cruise.

01:05:48.680 I got asked to do it, like, three days before.

01:05:50.860 They were like, do you have a show?

01:05:51.800 And I'm like, put on a show.

01:05:53.000 And I couldn't do the one from Edinburgh because it had a huge set and all these, like, moving

01:05:58.660 things.

01:05:59.580 So I had to write a new one.

01:06:01.960 And so I-

01:06:02.280 Three days.

01:06:02.620 So I'm telling you, the procrastination, honey.

01:06:05.080 I'm on that ship, like, with note cards.

01:06:07.740 And they gave me the Mamma Mia dancers from the ship that were already on there.

01:06:11.960 I picked four of the hottest British ones.

01:06:14.680 I said, get back there. 0.94

01:06:15.980 Put them in Amazon sailor outfits.

01:06:17.800 I had a little U.S. Navy outfit that would really shake things up.

01:06:23.700 And I went out, my opening song was called For the Gays from Death Becomes Her, the musical.

01:06:28.200 And I was like, I'd do anything for the gays.

01:06:32.940 And, but it was really funny, too, because they came on, like, on the loudspeaker the

01:06:37.580 day of my show.

01:06:38.480 And they were like, hey, everyone, this girl's really been through it.

01:06:42.800 We kind of, you know, us Gs haven't been showing up for the T's so well.

01:06:47.540 So if everyone could, you know, funnel their way to the Orchid Theater, like, that would

01:06:52.080 be great.

01:06:52.460 She needs it.

01:06:53.380 I'm like, who are they talking about?

01:06:55.660 They're like, please, she needs it.

01:06:57.240 It was so insane.

01:06:58.680 And then there was, like, there was, like, two other gals there. 1.00

01:07:02.200 I think one was probably a Trumper because she looked at me like I was the Antichrist.

01:07:07.380 Love.

01:07:07.560 And I get it.

01:07:08.200 I was on her, you know, soil.

01:07:10.260 Like, I was on her turf.

01:07:11.280 Like, she was there first. 0.99

01:07:12.500 But then also, then there was another woman who had just, like, triple Z tits in the craziest 1.00

01:07:17.120 way that I loved. 0.98

01:07:18.240 And she was nice to me.

01:07:19.380 Yes.

01:07:19.660 But then otherwise, it was these, I thought I was going to get swarmed.

01:07:22.180 But these men, I was a ghost.

01:07:23.640 I was on the Queen Elizabeth, the haunted ship, because they did not see me.

01:07:29.620 They didn't want to talk to me because they're there to meet other eligible bachelors.

01:07:34.440 And that's not me.

01:07:35.620 Right.

01:07:35.800 Very gender affirming.

01:07:37.080 I will. 0.99

01:07:37.460 I'll say, if you are a trans woman and you want to feel like a woman, go on a gay cruise. 1.00

01:07:44.380 That is what we should be prescribing. 0.99

01:07:47.000 You said I've never been more aware.

01:07:48.220 Don't take our hormones away. 0.86

01:07:49.680 But also, insurance should be covering gay cruises for the dolls. 0.94

01:07:54.640 I had a time in my life, went jet skiing and drove by the nude beach. 0.93

01:07:59.400 Some of the gays were really going at it on the beach there. 0.79

01:08:02.480 It was so fun. 0.95

01:08:03.400 I jet skied up to them and they scattered kind of like ants.

01:08:07.920 I was like, no, it's me. 0.99

01:08:08.920 And I flashed my tits and they're like, yeah. 0.99

01:08:12.140 And the jet skiing, you like to jet ski? 0.99

01:08:15.360 I don't mind it.

01:08:16.340 I've been a couple of times.

01:08:17.280 What's up with that?

01:08:18.740 That was not the...

01:08:20.460 We were really cooking there.

01:08:23.400 This was a nice episode about theater and gay people.

01:08:28.700 And common interests like jet skiing.

01:08:30.060 Yeah.

01:08:30.480 I guess jet skiing is kind of cis straight like that.

01:08:34.040 You know what?

01:08:34.680 It's a real manly thing.

01:08:35.260 That is kind of though the intersection of a lot of people like jet skiing.

01:08:40.280 We're not so different after all.

01:08:41.620 No.

01:08:42.080 No.

01:08:42.460 At the end of the day, we all love to jet ski, don't we?

01:08:44.520 We are the world.

01:08:45.620 I loved your story when you said, I've been running around asking each of these gays if 1.00

01:08:50.880 any of them knows how to do a French twist.

01:08:52.480 Oh, my God. 1.00

01:08:53.380 And then fucking... 0.99

01:08:54.620 Oh, what was... 1.00

01:08:56.340 Margie, there's the gal in the spa really cooked it up. 1.00

01:09:00.400 Yeah.

01:09:00.800 She's like, but what...

01:09:01.780 Oh, we got to talk about...

01:09:03.120 We need to be paying the makeup artists on cruise ships a lot more money because do you

01:09:08.340 know what it's like to be having to put eyeliner on someone as a ship's going like this?

01:09:14.540 And I was like, you poor girl.

01:09:16.380 Like, she...

01:09:17.080 She did.

01:09:17.440 I looked great.

01:09:18.220 Yeah.

01:09:18.700 You did.

01:09:19.320 You looked fabulous.

01:09:20.100 Thank you so much.

01:09:20.960 And you had the time of your life.

01:09:21.940 You've been on a cruise ever?

01:09:22.960 No.

01:09:23.420 I'm actually kind of afraid of cruises.

01:09:24.900 What's up with that?

01:09:25.940 I think I just think about the Titanic since we were talking about it.

01:09:29.120 I just get a little worried.

01:09:30.060 What?

01:09:30.220 You wouldn't have wanted to go on that one?

01:09:31.300 I don't know.

01:09:32.440 Did something bad happen when that one went out?

01:09:34.240 Yeah.

01:09:34.540 I worry about being stranded at sea.

01:09:37.000 Not my fave.

01:09:38.020 It is weird when you're like just doing your life and then you're like, we're in the middle

01:09:42.180 of nowhere. 0.93

01:09:43.220 There's sharks and mermaids and all sorts of shit down there. 0.98

01:09:46.720 But I think on that cruise, I think I would have had fun. 0.99

01:09:49.840 Oh.

01:09:50.660 I think we should do a show.

01:09:52.240 To the musical.

01:09:53.320 It's six, but less than four.

01:09:55.240 We got to start writing stuff down.

01:09:56.500 We got to start writing.

01:09:57.740 We can put something together.

01:09:58.900 They pay well. 0.93

01:09:59.780 The gays do have money. 0.99

01:10:01.300 I'm telling you. 0.89

01:10:02.160 Good gig.

01:10:02.820 You didn't know.

01:10:03.280 You didn't know about it.

01:10:04.220 No.

01:10:04.560 That's true.

01:10:05.160 You know what's funny?

01:10:05.820 My manager told me that it's pretty common for older acts that were really successful

01:10:11.360 at one time to do nostalgia cruises.

01:10:14.000 So they do like themed cruises.

01:10:15.960 And it's just like them and everything's themed around them.

01:10:19.160 Wait.

01:10:19.580 Like as a person?

01:10:20.660 Yeah.

01:10:20.980 Like it could be a person or it could be like me trying to think of someone.

01:10:24.480 Like if the Jonas Brothers were like, I'm going to do a Jonas Brother cruise.

01:10:28.060 Like someone would eat that up.

01:10:29.360 They would pay for it.

01:10:29.620 That you.

01:10:30.420 You would buy that the entire boat.

01:10:32.200 I would be the captain.

01:10:32.780 So it was just you.

01:10:33.540 That's so cute.

01:10:34.420 Yeah.

01:10:34.640 I'd be the captain.

01:10:35.460 It'd be a crew of two.

01:10:36.640 You and I.

01:10:37.060 Wait.

01:10:37.340 You know who could maybe do it?

01:10:38.620 Jesse McCartney.

01:10:39.580 A Jesse McCartney cruise.

01:10:40.960 And you would be the captain of that one.

01:10:42.660 Honey.

01:10:43.540 And you're my first mate.

01:10:44.820 Yeah. 1.00

01:10:45.340 You're Smee bitch. 1.00

01:10:46.520 You are Smee on the Jesse McCartney cruise. 1.00

01:10:49.100 Give you a little shave.

01:10:49.920 I need it still.

01:10:52.300 That's one thing I will say about since I've been on this show.

01:10:55.540 The stubble is still present.

01:10:58.880 I.

01:11:00.080 God bless me with a lot of things.

01:11:02.000 But he also gave me a thick head of hair and a thick beard.

01:11:06.260 And you know what, girl?

01:11:07.140 That is your gift.

01:11:09.340 And he took it from the worst men in the world who are transphobic.

01:11:12.800 Thank you.

01:11:13.360 And he had to give it to someone.

01:11:14.800 He smited their bloodlines.

01:11:16.080 He had to give me something.

01:11:16.760 Baldness forever. 0.96

01:11:17.340 I'm going to give it to Dylan.

01:11:18.080 Oh, yeah.

01:11:18.460 You're right.

01:11:18.760 There you go.

01:11:19.160 Look at you.

01:11:19.460 You've got great hair.

01:11:20.480 Oh, thank you.

01:11:21.620 I know.

01:11:22.140 And my man's got a great.

01:11:22.800 Don't dye it.

01:11:24.000 Don't bleach it.

01:11:24.800 You know what's funny is I did go blonde at one point.

01:11:27.880 Not fully, fully platinum blonde.

01:11:29.580 But I took it all the way up to the root.

01:11:31.540 Probably in college when I was like 20, 1920.

01:11:35.700 But it took me like a year and a half, two to get that high.

01:11:38.580 Because I was trying to save my hair.

01:11:40.060 And then as soon as it got up there, I was like, oh, hate it.

01:11:42.920 Need to go back.

01:11:43.540 Because I can't fathom going back every like six weeks or so.

01:11:46.860 Oh.

01:11:47.160 And I saw your video about like, you said the arrogance I had.

01:11:50.520 It was like a tumbleweed.

01:11:52.320 It was so.

01:11:53.140 Three pieces of hair left.

01:11:54.020 And I wasn't taking, like, I had the best hair girl.

01:11:56.880 I had the products, you know, the K-18 on standby.

01:12:01.380 Not enough K-18 in the world.

01:12:03.140 The purple shampoo.

01:12:04.040 Yeah.

01:12:04.200 I'm rough.

01:12:05.180 I'm a rough kind of.

01:12:06.220 That's why I feel like you and I get along so well, too.

01:12:08.420 Because I'm like, I want to take better care of stuff like that.

01:12:11.380 But I don't always.

01:12:12.320 You know what?

01:12:12.700 One of my other favorite things about you?

01:12:14.280 The captions when you're.

01:12:15.800 Who's your lovely glam person? 0.68

01:12:17.520 Adam.

01:12:18.160 You have to come up every time with a different way to gas up Adam in the caption.

01:12:23.560 And I'm like, she's going to run out.

01:12:25.240 And it's always me yelling at him.

01:12:27.120 And it's like nice, but like mean.

01:12:29.500 Yeah.

01:12:29.780 You know what's funny is he's told me that.

01:12:32.540 He's like, every time you tag me, you write something that you're like, yeah, exactly.

01:12:36.220 Exactly.

01:12:37.000 Well, maybe if they learned to get it, they would get it.

01:12:39.980 Nobody's ever finding it.

01:12:40.560 And then you're like, did you get some follows?

01:12:42.360 And he's like, yeah.

01:12:44.020 Hey, you don't want the tags anymore.

01:12:45.520 Just let me know.

01:12:46.220 Fine.

01:12:46.780 Fine.

01:12:49.100 Okay.

01:12:49.580 Last couple of questions.

01:12:50.660 Well, first I want to say, obviously we've been joking about how it's been years since we

01:12:54.680 came on the pod.

01:12:55.860 Yeah.

01:12:56.120 But I would love to know what you feel like you've learned or how you feel like you've

01:13:01.380 grown from then until now.

01:13:02.740 Oh my gosh.

01:13:04.180 I think that I am doing things that I could have never imagined and surrounding myself

01:13:11.320 with really good people and trying to figure out who those people are.

01:13:15.180 Because I think when you do pop off, there's kind of a whole new world is shown to you and

01:13:20.060 you have to decide what's healthy and what's not.

01:13:22.600 And I think that I've gone through things that I could have also never imagined.

01:13:28.700 I think that purpose is such a weird thing, but I do think mine goes back to femininity.

01:13:36.500 And I think especially hyper femininity, that's where I exist and where I love. 0.94

01:13:41.280 And in that, like that I actually, the one other time I was, you know, Alok, our dear

01:13:45.740 friend, Alok, love Alok.

01:13:46.780 We talked about you and how much we loved you.

01:13:48.800 Really?

01:13:49.000 I think we're dishing it back because that song Days of Girlhood had come out and it

01:13:57.160 got taken so out of context in all the wrong ways possible.

01:14:01.880 And Alok was like, you need to go on Drew's pod and you need to talk about it with Drew.

01:14:07.460 And because I was and then I did.

01:14:08.860 And then you had already talked about it.

01:14:10.300 And I was like, whoa, like I just feel so connected with you.

01:14:14.080 And I think that there have been so many moments over the last two or three years since I was

01:14:19.260 here that I would never believe.

01:14:23.300 And then I feel, I don't know.

01:14:26.680 You happy?

01:14:27.960 Yeah.

01:14:28.460 Are you?

01:14:29.020 I think so.

01:14:29.840 Yeah.

01:14:30.160 I feel like that's, I think that's maybe what you're saying too, is that you feel a lot happier

01:14:34.400 now.

01:14:34.580 And I was scared to say it because it's like, if I acknowledge that, like, is it going to be

01:14:39.040 taken away, but yeah, no, I, I think I'm, I'm in a good place. 0.99

01:14:43.820 Oh shit. 0.99

01:14:45.120 Is this what it's like? 1.00

01:14:47.100 I think given what you've been through, I'm sure it would be hard to believe that you could

01:14:51.520 be happier than you were before that happened to you.

01:14:54.080 But now you're even happier than you ever thought you could be.

01:14:57.120 Do you ever think about like, if none of this had happened though for you?

01:15:00.420 Oh yeah.

01:15:00.840 Sometimes I dream about it in a good way.

01:15:03.060 Like sometimes I think like if I never did this, I could be living anywhere I wanted in

01:15:07.760 a normal way and nobody would ever know who I was.

01:15:09.820 And that would be a good thing.

01:15:10.780 But I think when I have those moments, I acknowledge that I'm allowed to feel that way because this

01:15:17.260 is a job that has exposes you in ways you never thought you would ever have to deal with

01:15:21.660 or, or let alone stomach or like go through, be subjected to.

01:15:26.860 But then at the same time, I think if I wasn't doing this, I wouldn't be walking in my purpose

01:15:31.600 the way that you are too.

01:15:32.620 Your purpose, I think your purpose more than anything is to be yourself and continue to be

01:15:37.280 yourself.

01:15:37.740 Like, like I said, what you do is brave.

01:15:39.860 It is courageous and I admire you for it.

01:15:42.300 It is fucking hard to exist just as you are on the internet.

01:15:46.060 And I, I slightly changed my, um, answer to this last one while you were talking because 0.94

01:15:51.420 I feel like I lost my purpose for a second there because I was comparing myself to everyone

01:15:55.840 else.

01:15:56.340 Yeah.

01:15:56.680 And, and especially I think when you feel, um, like you've done something wrong or that

01:16:02.900 something's, you know, you fumbled a situation, then you start to be like, okay, well, I didn't

01:16:08.960 do that correctly.

01:16:09.560 So what is this person doing or what is that?

01:16:12.100 And, and those are the moments that I'm not proud of because I was, you know, trying to

01:16:16.780 be some like fashion girl or, you know, do like just not showing up my authentic.

01:16:23.240 Like, yes.

01:16:23.980 And so if I had any advice, it was, it would be like, sometimes you got to put those blinders

01:16:29.640 on baby and you got to just do what, you know, feels right.

01:16:34.540 And because it's not going to be right by everyone else's standards.

01:16:37.780 Absolutely.

01:16:38.440 Um, and in comparison really is the thief of joy.

01:16:41.640 Yeah, I agree.

01:16:42.840 I think that's a beautiful thing.

01:16:44.360 And the last thing I want to ask you about your book is what do you hope people take away

01:16:48.800 from it? 0.99

01:16:49.180 I hope they laugh because I, I really, I do be cracking them in there and Dylan's fucking 0.98

01:16:54.640 hilarious. 0.83

01:16:55.220 Can I just say, I know sometimes people don't associate you with being hilarious because

01:16:59.340 you're so joyous and talented.

01:17:00.740 I get scared to, to, especially to crack a joke.

01:17:04.120 I went there.

01:17:04.920 I like, because comedy is so healing.

01:17:06.960 And so I hope people laugh. 0.98

01:17:08.380 I hope that people like find it cute enough to like put out in their, you know, fucking coffee 0.99

01:17:15.760 tables or wherever they put them. 0.97

01:17:17.160 Um, and where do you put your book in your house?

01:17:19.820 It's actually, I have so many of my book that I have like, they're in all my bookshelves.

01:17:23.700 I have multiple bookshelves.

01:17:24.960 I got there.

01:17:26.140 The one day it rained in LA was the day that they were all sitting out on my porch.

01:17:29.580 And so now I have like wet books, just like covering my house.

01:17:33.360 Like you want a wet book?

01:17:34.700 I got one.

01:17:36.040 I have one waterlogged.

01:17:38.000 Um, and, and I also, I hope that people can relate to transness in a way maybe that they

01:17:42.920 couldn't have before because I, I, I try to make it fun because it is like, that's, what's

01:17:49.460 so sad is like, it's become so scientific or, you know, fact-based or stat, like there's

01:17:55.440 so much being thrown our way that we can't acknowledge how fun and joyous and silly it

01:18:01.580 can be.

01:18:01.940 Absolutely.

01:18:02.880 And beautiful.

01:18:03.760 So cool.

01:18:04.320 And fun.

01:18:05.360 And messy.

01:18:06.300 Oh, just everything.

01:18:07.280 Everything you could ever want.

01:18:08.200 I was like, that's why I'm like, I'll never understand, um, an unhealthy and bigoted obsession

01:18:13.460 with trans people.

01:18:15.060 And also people with no trans people in their life.

01:18:18.300 I feel sorry for them.

01:18:19.520 So sad for them. 0.97

01:18:20.460 I feel so fucking sorry. 0.95

01:18:21.740 The dolls. 0.96

01:18:22.820 You have a, you know, a lot of them.

01:18:26.020 And by them, I mean, yeah.

01:18:29.480 And me and the dolls.

01:18:30.320 I said, me and the dolls. 0.99

01:18:31.240 Oh, we're, we're locked in the fucking, I mean, me, the dolls and drag queens. 1.00

01:18:36.440 Oh, you love drag queens. 1.00

01:18:37.620 I love drag queens. 1.00

01:18:38.480 Oh my God. 1.00

01:18:39.020 Wait, did I tell you that bitch? 1.00

01:18:41.160 Me and Trixie Mattel at the DMV last week. 1.00

01:18:44.620 Why were the two of you at the DMV?

01:18:47.220 I can't.

01:18:48.860 I walk in, you know, head down, Burberry headband on, just eyes down.

01:18:53.940 And, and I, I see this flash of a smile here.

01:18:57.240 Dillon, Dillon. 0.99

01:18:58.420 I look over Trixie motherfucking Mattel. 1.00

01:19:00.360 Her bald ass in the DMV. 1.00

01:19:02.660 She's at the counter, like already doing the paperwork. 1.00

01:19:05.280 I'm being told that I didn't have the right appointment or whatever.

01:19:08.160 Right.

01:19:08.440 And, and so then, um, I was there trying to update.

01:19:12.520 I had an X on my gender marker.

01:19:14.040 I was like, I need the full she, her. 0.88

01:19:15.840 Yes.

01:19:16.120 Um, I want the F.

01:19:17.420 Yes.

01:19:17.900 And like in 2025.

01:19:19.500 Right.

01:19:19.980 And, and then she was there.

01:19:22.240 I, who knows what she was doing. 0.99

01:19:23.940 But she's fucking just. 1.00

01:19:24.940 Being fucking bald. 0.99

01:19:25.980 Updating her picture probably. 1.00

01:19:27.620 And, um, and, and like, what a fun person, but also a crazy person to see out in public.

01:19:34.420 Yeah.

01:19:34.700 Out in the wild like that.

01:19:35.660 I haven't seen you since Kieran and Shippica's Christmas party when you kept saying you wanted 1.00

01:19:39.140 to fuck Santa. 0.99

01:19:40.220 And I was like, he was a good Santa though. 1.00

01:19:43.200 So young.

01:19:44.540 You're all miss him.

01:19:45.880 I love him.

01:19:46.840 I should call.

01:19:47.320 I should call.

01:19:48.000 I should call Santa.

01:19:49.780 I should call Santa.

01:19:50.800 Me and Trixie canceled on filming on each other.

01:19:53.420 Uh, like days apart.

01:19:55.100 Like she canceled on me and then I canceled on her two days later.

01:19:58.260 And then she's like, I love this for us.

01:20:00.080 I love that we do this.

01:20:00.860 Yeah.

01:20:01.000 And like, there's no, no harm, no foul.

01:20:02.780 I was thinking there is a new like trans owned bar.

01:20:06.140 Like it's like a doll bar in NYC.

01:20:08.500 I think we go to see Nick Jonas in the last five years.

01:20:15.540 We pick up Teffy because you know, she's not going to the musical.

01:20:18.500 No.

01:20:18.980 Yeah.

01:20:19.240 We get some dinner.

01:20:20.180 We go to the doll bar.

01:20:21.700 That sounds like my dream night.

01:20:24.000 It's a good night.

01:20:24.580 I'll be honest. 0.99

01:20:25.280 That sounds like a fucking hoot. 0.99

01:20:26.600 I can't wait. 1.00

01:20:27.480 And then we get on the gay cruise the next day. 0.89

01:20:29.840 Yeah. 0.70

01:20:30.080 Yeah.

01:20:30.280 And then we never get off.

01:20:32.240 In some ways we're on it right now.

01:20:34.700 We're on it right now.

01:20:35.200 Currently we're spearheading it.

01:20:36.920 Oh, I, I, well, thank you so much for coming back.

01:20:42.000 I fucking love you. 0.91

01:20:42.860 I love you so much. 0.99

01:20:43.820 I'm in love with you.

01:20:44.240 You're the best.

01:20:44.700 I can't wait.

01:20:45.360 Who knows what's going to happen next?

01:20:46.680 I know girl. 1.00

01:20:47.520 Next time we see each other, we'll be on fashion.

01:20:49.660 It's going to be.

01:20:51.700 And obviously everybody already knows you and knows where to find you, but you can tell

01:20:57.940 them if they don't.

01:20:59.220 And also please tell them where they can get your book.

01:21:02.000 My name is Dylan Mulvaney.

01:21:04.560 If you don't want to follow me, I don't know, like follow Dakota Fanning or someone else.

01:21:09.500 I always said, like, I was like, if I get a biopic, I want Dakota Fanning to play me.

01:21:13.360 Right.

01:21:13.680 It's just obviously couldn't.

01:21:14.600 They're not hiring trans people.

01:21:15.540 We got to get Dakota.

01:21:16.180 And then where I buy my book.

01:21:20.940 Oh, where you buy my book.

01:21:22.420 Yeah.

01:21:22.580 Maybe.

01:21:23.180 I mean, if you Daddy Bezos, you can.

01:21:25.320 But I would love you to go to like a local bookstore.

01:21:27.780 I'll store a I have a book club that you could join and we'll send it to you that way.

01:21:32.420 Gorge.

01:21:32.480 Um, and it's just, it's, it's a, you read or audio, honey.

01:21:36.660 There's people that, hey, the people listening, maybe you prefer an audio book.

01:21:40.880 What did you record yours?

01:21:42.200 I sure did.

01:21:42.940 That was a long week.

01:21:43.920 It was.

01:21:44.580 I, mine was awake.

01:21:45.300 Was your, did you forget how to read words?

01:21:48.300 I had to start every sentence.

01:21:50.980 I felt like, I felt like I was, sometimes I felt like my voice didn't sound like myself

01:21:55.160 because I was listening to myself talk for too long.

01:21:57.080 And then I, I started kind of like talking like this.

01:21:58.840 Yeah.

01:21:58.860 And then I felt like I was talking in different octaves.

01:22:00.020 And then I was like, no, I was like, drop it, drop it, drop it low.

01:22:04.480 Um, but yeah, it's so, that was a tricky one.

01:22:07.020 It was.

01:22:07.420 You could do audio book or the physical copy.

01:22:10.660 I highly recommend the physical copy.

01:22:12.320 Illustrations.

01:22:13.300 Yeah.

01:22:13.520 And it's gorgeous.

01:22:14.440 Are you kidding me?

01:22:15.220 And I'll tell you what, they do care a lot about aesthetics of a book.

01:22:19.300 The girls, they care. 0.99

01:22:20.780 They love when they're pretty.

01:22:21.760 Okay.

01:22:21.900 When you think of like other than your own.

01:22:23.580 Yeah.

01:22:24.020 What's a cute book?

01:22:26.300 Ooh, cute.

01:22:27.620 Let me think.

01:22:28.400 Other than yours. 0.94

01:22:29.040 I just, I think this is so fucking pretty. 0.96

01:22:31.280 I think, uh, Jeanette McCurdy's is. 0.95

01:22:33.680 Oh yeah.

01:22:34.100 Yeah.

01:22:34.440 This is great.

01:22:35.800 I'm trying to think of like book.

01:22:38.360 You're like the Bible. 0.92

01:22:39.940 I'm like me.

01:22:40.460 Never.

01:22:40.740 Never.

01:22:41.180 Romeo and Juliet.

01:22:42.220 I'm like twilight.

01:22:43.880 Oh, you know what I want?

01:22:46.760 Twilight cruise.

01:22:48.400 Jesse McCartney on the twilight cruise.

01:22:51.160 It's twilight cruise.

01:22:52.280 Featuring.

01:22:52.560 Have I found you?

01:22:54.060 Well, thank you all so much for joining us on this episode of the comment section.

01:22:59.600 Thank you to my amazing all-star guest, Dylan Mulvaney.

01:23:02.420 Obviously make sure y'all go follow Dylan on literally everything. 0.91

01:23:05.640 She's a fucking superstar and I love her and y'all already know this and make sure y'all 0.96

01:23:09.320 pick up her new book, paper doll notes from a late bloomer. 0.99

01:23:13.200 It's available now anywhere.

01:23:14.560 You can buy books or stream audio books.

01:23:16.500 Oh my gosh.

01:23:16.880 How exciting.

01:23:18.380 I'm so excited for you.

01:23:18.960 I love you.

01:23:19.360 I love you and thank you all so much for joining us.

01:23:21.340 Don't forget new episodes of the comment section drop every Wednesday.

01:23:24.460 You can stream the audio on all streaming platforms, but the video lists for free and

01:23:27.420 exclusively on our favorite platform, Spotify.

01:23:29.780 Thank you so much to Dylan.

01:23:30.900 Thank you so much to all of you and I'll see you next week.

01:23:33.840 Bye.

01:23:34.680 Bye.

The Comment Section with Drew Afualo - March 13, 2025

WE'RE PEOPLE GIRLS Ft. Dylan Mulvaney ｜ Episode 160

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