The Critical Compass Podcast - 2024 Alberta United Conservative Party AGM Recap Rundown w⧸Marty Belanger (martyupnorth)

00:00:00.000 the 91 did surprise me because you know you guys and i like we spent a lot of time talking talking

00:00:04.760 to people right i was there to meet with people like i i really took the opportunity to try and

00:00:09.540 just talk to a lot of people you know nothing on the policy side was coming out but there were a

00:00:14.120 couple of things that were coming out people like her people like danielle so that that was that was

00:00:19.440 overwhelming people like her i never heard anybody say they just didn't like her as a person

00:00:24.020 they like her as a person and and the other and like you said um she's she's good she appears

00:00:31.740 better than some of the other leaders and the other trend that i saw or something i kind of

00:00:36.200 realized is people have been fundamentally hurt in the last six years right between covid and between

00:00:42.940 economic policies and things like that and people are kind of under a bit of a shell shock right now

00:00:47.980 and they just want some stability and just they just want somebody that somebody nice who's not

00:00:52.160 hurting them so and and that's that's one of the things i kind of thought like what are we united

00:00:57.660 around the there was a big consensus people are united around danielle because she's a nice person

00:01:02.940 who's not hurting us maybe later on what you know in a year or two from now maybe we'll worry about

00:01:08.480 the policies and whether we're all aligned on policies but for the time being policies didn't seem

00:01:13.980 to be a big big issue at this agm you know that that's my thoughts

00:01:20.320 hi guys welcome back to the critical compass thanks for joining us today uh today we have a special

00:01:44.180 guest uh the the first of hopefully many appearances by uh marty up north mr marty belanger as his friends

00:01:52.620 call him i think and uh maybe martin belanger i i resist you know what i mean that that's thanks

00:02:00.580 and you you pronounce it properly and and martin is my proper name um and then and then when i first

00:02:08.380 moved to alberta you know 35 years ago i tried to keep correcting everyone and and then and i really

00:02:15.380 hated being called marty at first i just hated it you know and but eventually i just stopped fighting it

00:02:21.500 just stopped fighting it so marty it's marty now you know and okay good consensus yeah yeah you've given

00:02:27.680 into the to the berta pronunciation that's good well so marty thanks for joining us today we're um we're

00:02:34.000 gonna talk we're we're all freshly back from the ucp agm in uh beautiful red deer alberta um so yeah

00:02:41.180 we'll hit on a few points today probably but uh maybe you know to start us off what um you know

00:02:46.520 there was there was a little bit of uh some contention going into this uh agm about you know

00:02:53.040 whether or not there was going to be a kind of a vocal uh opposition to the confidence vote in in

00:02:59.440 danielle smith and i know you were you've been pretty vocal about it um maybe you want to give

00:03:04.120 just maybe a little bit of a rundown on that and kind of what your what your thoughts are and how

00:03:08.620 on how that portion of it ended up going sure um yeah i mean first i want to preface it right

00:03:15.260 um i was vocal but i was doing what i always do right people people online like have known me

00:03:23.480 for years and then you know my name online is marty up north unacceptable fact checker the

00:03:28.800 unacceptable comes you know it's sort of a joke from covid era but but i truly am a fact checker

00:03:34.200 and and and lately not lately but i mean for the last you know nine years i've been i've been known

00:03:41.200 for holding liberals accountable and some people just have this weird notion that the only people i

00:03:46.480 should hold accountable are liberals well no they're the ones that are in power so i held them

00:03:51.040 accountable trust me i was hard on notley and i was hard on kenny and so and now i appeared like i

00:03:57.260 was hard on danielle which is what i do it's not going to stop i mean i'm i'm i'm a canadian she's

00:04:03.580 elected and i'm and i'm an albertan uh above all else and she's our premier so i've been trying to

00:04:09.820 hold her accountable i'll be and to be honest yes i mean why am i pushing her a little bit hard

00:04:15.440 prior to the agm is because i kind of think that she's she's wandered a little bit from her path of

00:04:21.940 what you know of who we thought we had elected we thought we had elected a i call it a big c

00:04:27.260 conservative slash libertarians you know small government person and i i kind of find that in

00:04:32.340 the last year she's she's wandered from that so so yeah in in advance of the agm i was a little bit

00:04:38.260 not a little bit i'll admit i was a lot critical trying to steer her back the way i'd like her to go

00:04:43.560 but but i and and and obviously you know we all know now the agm she got a 91.5 vote of confidence

00:04:52.520 so that means that the majority of people like the direction she's going so i'm a bit of an outlier

00:04:57.040 and i accept that i mean is it going to change how i am no i'll still you know i i have my issues

00:05:02.920 that i'd like to address and i'll keep pushing them but but yeah yeah yeah and i wanted to say that

00:05:08.460 because some people thought i was there to overthrow her no no no no no like that's not what i was

00:05:12.440 trying you know i'm not one of those guys trying to overthrow the premier or the prime minister

00:05:16.520 uh the prime minister maybe if i could overthrow trudeau i think i would yeah well i don't think

00:05:22.020 any of us can afford to go to those agms but yeah i think that's uh i think that's fair i mean i i don't

00:05:28.000 think even if i mean even if you were you know your your motivations were different i don't i don't

00:05:32.900 think it's a bad thing to uh to hold the leader to account i mean i i know james you we've talked about

00:05:38.340 this maybe you want to you want to you know follow up a little bit well we never want to be in an echo

00:05:43.620 chamber and the one thing i noticed going to this going to the agm is when you start just talking

00:05:50.680 with people on an individual level you you find out that there are a range of opinions like it's not

00:05:56.740 as unified um it's not like people just have the same talking points the same rhetoric there is nuance

00:06:05.440 and you ask people you'll get some more libertarian you'll get some that are that there are reasons

00:06:11.280 for being there are a little bit different but when it comes to the 91 percent well what does that

00:06:18.280 actually mean i i think that means that people are happy enough with her direction that swapping

00:06:25.260 somebody out either would be too risky they don't know who else would be in there and maybe we don't

00:06:31.360 get somebody as good as maybe we get somebody worse than daniel smith that that's always a risk so

00:06:36.440 it could just be a like people not willing to gamble so they're like yes we'll support but keep on pushing

00:06:42.820 her hard because i i don't think people have like there's some that are maybe cheerleaders but uh it

00:06:51.080 seems like this being critical and calling somebody out for not sticking to their promises is part of the

00:06:58.180 process and and i i think i think that's a healthy thing within a party yeah it i mean you you you you

00:07:05.860 remind me of a couple of talking points the first one's an is sort of an obvious one that i just want

00:07:10.480 to mention i mean she got a she got uh people said would you have voted against her regardless and

00:07:15.440 in i'm almost i almost would have right because she got 91 and that makes me nervous like

00:07:21.980 and regardless of your political stripes anybody any politicians like i i don't trust governments that

00:07:27.840 much anymore i just don't and uh so i don't like the big numbers so we'll we'll leave it at that you

00:07:34.500 know i just don't like the big numbers but then yes you know walking around prior the 91 surprised me

00:07:40.600 the 91 did surprise me because you know you guys and i like we spent a lot of time talking talking to

00:07:45.820 people right i was there to meet with people like i i really took the opportunity to try and just talk to

00:07:50.980 a lot of people you know and and i had to make notes to try and figure out what people were united

00:07:57.940 towards and had in common nothing was coming out uh but but there were nothing put nothing on the

00:08:06.640 policy side sorry nothing on the policy side was coming out but there were a couple of things that

00:08:11.020 were coming out people like her people like danielle so that that was that was overwhelming people like

00:08:17.200 i never heard anybody say they just didn't like her as a person they like her as a person and and

00:08:23.040 the other and like you said um she's she's good she appears better than some of the other leaders

00:08:29.380 and the other trend that i saw or something i kind of realized is people have been fundamentally hurt in

00:08:36.220 the last six years right between covid and between economic policies and things like that and people

00:08:42.320 are kind of under a bit of a shell shock right now and they just want some stability and just they just

00:08:46.320 want somebody that somebody nice who's not hurting them so and and that's that's one of the things i

00:08:51.860 kind of thought like what are we united around the there was a big consensus people are united around

00:08:57.900 danielle because she's a nice person who's not hurting us maybe later on what you know in a year

00:09:02.700 for two from now maybe we'll worry about the policies and whether we're all aligned on policies but for

00:09:08.100 the time being policies didn't seem to be a big big issue at this agm you know that that that's my

00:09:16.220 thoughts you know uh james and i were talking on the drive back about that that 91.5 and we were

00:09:23.560 wondering do you think uh with with a number that big do you think that that is going to so i we feel

00:09:31.440 like it could go one of two ways either with a number that big that could give her permission

00:09:35.540 to start and really drill into the the rhetoric that she sort of won her leadership on and and won the

00:09:43.240 vote on uh for the province of you know really like you say wanting to govern like a big c conservative

00:09:48.820 or do you think it goes the other way and she gets that 91.5 and she says well what i'm doing right

00:09:55.340 now seems to be working no one seems to be voting against me so maybe i'll try and you know keep her

00:09:59.780 keep her even keeled and try to appeal to you know all these sides and you know soften my stances a

00:10:05.180 little bit like what what do you think the her her reading of that number is going to be

00:10:09.660 i think we'll only know in the coming weeks and months right i mean all options are possible yeah

00:10:15.920 you know yeah somebody somebody nefarious could take it on and put on and we could see a whole

00:10:21.520 new agenda show up that we didn't see before and it could be good or it could be bad right maybe

00:10:25.920 maybe she has a good agenda that she's been unable to um fulfill like maybe she's on my side in terms of

00:10:32.720 you know small government for instance so maybe she will go down that path uh or not um but but one

00:10:39.860 of the things i also worry about in um in this is that she's not the only one with an agenda right so

00:10:45.880 the i call them the powers that be whether they're lobbyists or or the or the leadership of the ucp or

00:10:52.980 her cabinet some of them could i'm more worried about them seeing this as uh as a carte blanche to do

00:10:59.720 some things that i might not be in favor i mean i'm you know does that make sense i mean we gotta

00:11:06.100 wait right we gotta wait a couple of days or a couple of weeks to see which way she goes i i didn't

00:11:10.280 even have a chance today to see what happened or yesterday i guess i'm i'm distracted by the trump

00:11:14.560 election i didn't see if if uh if the ucp advanced any new bills or anything like that so yeah yeah that's

00:11:21.440 that's obviously the the news of the day today and we'll we will get to that uh james um why don't um

00:11:27.580 why don't you hit him with another agm question and then we'll uh we'll pretend like we're not all

00:11:32.620 focused on the u.s election then get into that yeah well uh i was gonna say the the risk of even like

00:11:39.780 getting another if she got too low of a a vote and we in the ucp install it like go through the

00:11:48.880 leadership process and get somebody new they're still existing within the current framework um that

00:11:55.920 let it be the cabinets there and all these things that are happening in the background

00:12:00.740 don't shift overnight and it feels like for her to even get to this point there's a certain speed where

00:12:08.240 i think some things can be done faster than others but you're still working with the existing framework

00:12:13.780 and you couldn't do a 180 and let's say we were able to vote somebody libertarian like extremely

00:12:22.400 libertarian in as as leadership at the ucp uh that wouldn't i'm wondering like in the next two years

00:12:29.520 what would be the time frame for them actually being able to like make these changes or how much would

00:12:35.720 they be fighting the existing system around there so these things do take a little bit of time

00:12:40.240 is that that's how i'm trying to trying to trying to understand this yeah yeah i mean

00:12:47.920 i'm not i'm not 100 sold on it takes time you know i'm not in that camp i mean i'm i i guess i'm i'm

00:12:57.440 i i i spent too long in the in the private sector in the oil industry in particular where we move

00:13:03.600 pretty darn fast so so i i i'm not sold on that i i i think like we saw danielle move pretty quickly

00:13:11.940 last year on on the sovereignty bill and a couple of things i think that there are some bills when they

00:13:16.640 are near and dear to her she moves faster on them that said though that said like i said earlier

00:13:22.560 maybe she's reading the room very correctly and she's not moving quickly and she has a plan

00:13:27.520 i just wish she'd tell us her plan more precisely you know if if the plan is to is to move more

00:13:33.360 aggressively on on shrinking government in the year from now i'd like to hear it um but but but based on

00:13:41.200 some of the actions that i'm seeing i i i i don't think it's simply a matter of moving slowly i think

00:13:47.440 she just not the the party's just not moving on some of the things they said that they were going

00:13:51.440 to move on is is is how i'm feeling it now and and i and i want to come back to one thing that you made

00:13:57.280 me think of and um i you know some people told me you know twitter's not real life and i'm like yeah

00:14:05.200 it's not real life but neither is real life um like online i still have this crazy huge community

00:14:13.280 like i i have more followers online than there were at the agm and and i also have and i know from my

00:14:21.280 analytics that i have like 40 000 people who follow me who are albertans like it's crazy right and and

00:14:28.080 they they still they they're surprised my online community is surprised by the 91 and doesn't match

00:14:35.680 the 91 and that was another that was a bit of an epiphany for me going to the agm i was impressed

00:14:41.440 when i showed up at the agm but you guys were there too right the bulk of the action was in that

00:14:47.120 main room where policies were being discussed and that group of like 2 000 people sitting there

00:14:52.560 those are all insiders man that was like that was you know um people from constituency associations and

00:14:59.040 other things and and so forth and then and then the other 4 000 people that showed up they were

00:15:04.560 they showed up and disappeared and and we and and they came to vote so um so i realized that after

00:15:13.120 the event right the event's impressive it sends goosebumps down your uh uh but but when you look

00:15:18.960 at it you go yeah there was 6 000 people that are almost you know true party insiders diehards i don't

00:15:26.480 think it was a real good representation of of of the average albertan i mean you guys were there i was

00:15:32.960 there but how many how many people like us did you come did you truly come across like was it thousands or

00:15:38.640 hundreds or did it feel like you know everyday albertans were kind of a minority there maybe i'm

00:15:44.800 reading that one wrong no i think i think that's pretty good that's a pretty good read on it i i did

00:15:52.000 get the feeling and and maybe james can comment on this too that there did seem to be it did seem to

00:15:57.440 be a little clicky like a little bit um you know there were there were sort of a feel of you know

00:16:02.800 certain personalities had kind of a maybe maybe a cult of personalities is over over explaining it

00:16:09.360 but it did seem some people sort of had um kind of group uh you know a group identity sort of going

00:16:16.480 on in certain areas and and you know of course there were you know there were people like you

00:16:20.240 there and people like eva chipiak were there marco van hugenboss were there and they sort of you know

00:16:24.720 groups kind of follow you guys around you know as as you're sort of more known in the scene but um but

00:16:31.120 you're right that you guys are you guys are the ones commenting on the government and and holding

00:16:35.840 holding the provincial government to account a whole lot more often than what it felt like

00:16:41.120 uh was the actual uh maybe the bulk of the of the voting body there yeah i did sort of get that

00:16:45.760 feeling yeah well and and and the other way i got that feeling was uh actually coincidentally i just

00:16:51.520 posted a link to this right um the the ucp sent me they send it to all the members uh a link to photos

00:16:58.080 of the event and so i just posted the link on twitter and i went through it and it's like it's

00:17:03.360 six pages it's probably like 400 pictures in there and when you start looking at the pictures going

00:17:08.480 through them you start recognizing a whole bunch of individuals and you realize like that it's the

00:17:13.520 same people over and over getting their picture taken with mlas and danielle and others and you see

00:17:18.640 the clicks and you see the groups right so um so yeah it's a weird statement on my part but the agm

00:17:25.120 is not real life either i mean like i i got i got suckered into it at the beginning at the

00:17:30.720 beginning i thought oh wow this is fascinating and then as the day progressed i realized this is

00:17:36.240 this isn't joe blow coming here i mean it it does cost 169 dollars to go plus you have to travel and get

00:17:42.480 your hotel accommodations and stuff like that so i i um it'd be nice i mean i've been to conferences i

00:17:49.440 have been to big conferences in the past where you can get a booklet with all the participants and who

00:17:53.760 they are that would be awesome to see that can you imagine like the list of all 6 000 people and

00:17:58.560 their their affiliation i bet you would be we'd see some patterns so um yeah even um if not for our

00:18:07.200 podcast mike and i likely would have gone because we've never gone to one of these before and so i'm

00:18:15.120 wondering well part of that six thousands is people going to this for the first time and then how many

00:18:20.880 people are either busy on that weekend not willing to pay the money a little less engaged or i think

00:18:27.520 you also find this a little bit in the states that like the more libertarian minded are a little bit

00:18:32.240 more individualist in some respects and if not for other people you know like would you go to a

00:18:40.160 a conference of 6 000 people and be the only one there like if you don't know anybody that's a bigger

00:18:47.520 deterrent to to show up at one of these events so i i think it will naturally bias towards

00:18:54.240 people who are at least connected through a ca through some other event through the online sphere

00:18:59.680 through the um you kind of need to know somebody to be motivated enough unless somebody feels like

00:19:06.160 okay well i really want to connect and do my part and vote and or go that extra mile but that's

00:19:14.080 already a level above the engagement that you get from the average person um who's just casually

00:19:21.120 supporting the party or casual yeah good point yeah good point nobody goes there alone right totally

00:19:26.480 alone like uh if you're doing the politics you're not totally alone i mean politics is a uh is a team

00:19:32.240 sport so uh but yeah it's a good event though i i i'm happy i went um i'm i'm i hope they continue this

00:19:40.880 big i mean it was it was impressive to see 6 000 people show up whatever reason that for which they

00:19:46.800 showed up i mean 6 000 people 6 000 people like that yeah that's that's a big number that's a big

00:19:52.080 number so and and congratulations danielle i mean you you know 90 is a big number and i think you would

00:19:58.880 have gotten a 60 or 70 or more anyway so um hopefully hopefully we steered her a little bit and it won't

00:20:05.440 just go to her head and she won't just you know uh do something um evil with that 91 because i i don't

00:20:12.640 like i don't like super majorities even pierre like i keep talking about that i mean i i i wouldn't want

00:20:17.760 to give any politician in this country a super super majority because that's just that's unchecked yeah

00:20:25.440 yeah agreed and and speaking of uh of uh you know sending sending a message uh before before maybe we ask

00:20:32.240 you about uh your thoughts on the alberta bill of rights debate um if uh if you're you know happy

00:20:38.720 enough to talk about it um when we were in uh we happened to end up in one of the hospitality rooms

00:20:43.040 at the same time and uh and you had a minute to uh to to bend danielle's ear do you um do you mind

00:20:49.520 talking about a little bit what was said there between you and her uh yeah um it was a coincidence

00:20:56.320 right i you you guys were actually you were in the room when it had the same room as me when it

00:21:00.880 happened but oh no she came in she came into ours after but you spoke with her before yeah yeah uh

00:21:06.400 no she was doing the rounds in the hospitality suite which is interesting i mean she walks around

00:21:10.720 with her entourage and her bodyguards and the bodyguards are so close to her she spotted me she

00:21:16.080 recognized me um for for the viewers for you guys i mean i she recognized me from my online presence

00:21:23.200 but danielle and i have had conversations in person and even in conference call and on my phone i mean

00:21:29.200 she she she she called me one of the weirdest calls ever was uh when uh the day after she got a

00:21:36.160 week after she got elected and last year and when we found out that the hinshaw was uh being rehired

00:21:42.000 i broke that story and she called me right away but anyways so she she reached out to me and it was

00:21:47.520 almost going to be like a hug and uh i i just put out my hands shook hands you could tell the bodyguards

00:21:53.440 were were closing in on her and her handlers more than her bodyguards and she kind of said no no it's all

00:21:58.720 good and then she leaned into me and she's like why do you hate me so much and uh or no no not what

00:22:04.880 why do you hate me so much sorry why are you so mean to me that's what she said why it was more

00:22:09.040 funny right why are you so mean to me and i said no i'm not mean to you danielle i'm just trying to

00:22:14.160 get you to pivot right and then we had a bit of it and this way it got really interesting because

00:22:19.120 now there was a hush it was interesting there was a hush and a couple of people said you know who's

00:22:23.920 this guy she's talking to and i heard a couple people say that's marty and then she asked me she

00:22:28.480 said what do you want me to do and i said uh i said just be true to yourself like be true to your roots

00:22:35.440 like you told us right you told us you were libertarian so be true to that and and then she

00:22:41.600 and i thought it would end at that and she can just kept on going like well what else you want me to

00:22:45.360 do and i said well to be honest i said i want you to shrink the government right make it smaller

00:22:49.760 and then that's where she got into a bit of the political side of her came up but she gave an excuse

00:22:55.120 she gave her a fairly reasonable answer she's like if i just because she knows i've asked her

00:23:01.520 actually we were talking i said just cut 10 because i said in the private sector i can always find 10 i

00:23:07.280 can always find 10 and she said if i just find 10 they'll sabotage me you know talking about the

00:23:13.680 government and the workers and whatnot and um and it and it felt like she wanted to keep talking

00:23:21.760 but i'd had a few drinks and she'd had a few drinks i i think she'd had a few more than me and uh and

00:23:28.000 i said i said you know what danielle i don't want to argue this is your night go you know we're

00:23:32.560 socializing right now and go socialize she did turn to uh to one of her assistants who came over and

00:23:38.800 took my number i'm like she already knows my number but you know we we played they played the

00:23:44.000 game she said they're gonna call me now that'll be if if if danielle called me because i've asked

00:23:49.600 her a couple of times danielle like call me and let's have a let's have a chat i'll i'll gladly give

00:23:54.560 you this you know my thoughts on on what i'm seeing i want to give her some ideas but i also want

00:24:00.800 to tell her what i'm seeing i mean i i do um you know what i think we talked about this a little bit

00:24:05.440 earlier but as a as um as a leader i was a leader in the in the industry for a long time and you know

00:24:12.160 you you land at a at a site up north in fort mcmurray i get off the plane and there's the foreman

00:24:16.640 waiting to meet me and and they want to stay with me it's like they don't want me to go look at the

00:24:20.720 facilities and i'd say no not not not like you just appreciate the ride but i'm gonna go walk through

00:24:26.240 the facility and i don't need you guys around me so unfiltered information and i don't know how

00:24:30.800 much unfiltered information danielle gets probably not probably not a lot

00:24:36.080 so there's one other aspect where um this point was brought up that danielle she may have her areas

00:24:44.640 that she knows really well and she's more confident on and then she's deferring to other people on other

00:24:51.680 areas and she might have too much trust in certain advisors that maybe don't actually um maybe maybe

00:25:00.000 they've they're either slightly misguided or maybe the bill maybe that explains or or yeah yeah that

00:25:07.520 could explain kind of the the current draft of the bill of rights is that it came from a good place and

00:25:13.920 she's deferring the legal part of it to people who are writing in the same fundamental flaw as the as

00:25:20.400 the charter right let's yeah let's not lose that thought let's hold off just a second on the bill

00:25:25.840 of rights and you're right about advisors right i mean um and it's not just danielle they all do this

00:25:31.520 i mean kenny kenny that was one of the i think one of kenny's downfalls kenny was uh you know he's in

00:25:36.880 albert but he had been in ontario for so long came back and he surrounded himself with advisors from

00:25:43.200 ontario who had kind of not lost touch with alberta and so he was misadvised and and he had a huge blind

00:25:50.320 spot and i know in the case of danielle we you know we know some of her advisors like rob rob anderson

00:25:55.520 who who she just elevated to her chief of staff um rob's like a friend of hers like he's a high

00:26:01.520 school friend literally a college friend he was an mla with her and he and and i think rob in some

00:26:08.240 instances might be misadvising her they both together they have blind spots right like in a

00:26:13.200 position like hers she really should have a a guy like me or somebody else on on the by her side who's

00:26:20.400 just there to to i'm sure she does i'm sure she does i hope she does but um yeah it's common for them

00:26:26.880 to have blind spots and advisors that are let's face it right advisors are humans too right they

00:26:33.760 have their own agendas like you know uh you can't tell me that somebody who's in her cabinet is really

00:26:39.280 loyal to her and doesn't want to do something else including her mlas like uh yeah so back okay so

00:26:46.400 let's go to yeah you want to it's a it's a burning topic you want to talk about the bill of rights let's

00:26:50.320 talk about them well it just seemed relevant in that case of like yeah um could the bill of rights be

00:26:56.400 explained could the current state of the bill of rights be explained by deferring to legal experts

00:27:03.840 that maybe gave her bad advice or steered it in a certain direction where maybe she doesn't fully

00:27:10.720 understand um what that means or maybe she hasn't just isn't pushing hard enough for that but the bill

00:27:19.920 of rights is interesting to me because i i don't remember us asking about it it wasn't it wasn't a

00:27:27.440 campaign promise it wasn't a big deal like i don't think it was a big deal but it became a big deal at

00:27:32.960 some point and it became a big deal because of this group in in in uh medicine hat the the black hats

00:27:39.040 right and i don't know why and i've talked to them like i've talked to uh mitch sylvester and some of those

00:27:43.440 those guys and um i i think uh let me try and answer this i i don't think it was a priority of

00:27:52.720 hers and it became a priority and it became something that she got nervous about and she

00:27:57.120 needed to do something i don't think it's a priority of hers i really don't and so she passed it off to

00:28:02.240 somebody who who who drafted something extremely quickly i mean i had the bill of rights here on my

00:28:07.840 desk like the one that the the one that to be honest the one that the the black hats gave her with

00:28:12.240 the 21 points it's a bit of a joke right i mean like you know we have the right to fair taxation we

00:28:18.000 have the right to like it just goes on and on and lists all this what does that mean so yeah exactly

00:28:24.480 and and then and then so she gave it to uh mickey emery which is where it belongs which is something

00:28:31.040 she heard repeat not not specifically to that but she heard it a lot during the town halls this summer

00:28:36.320 like if you're you know the excuse that things don't move quickly we told her make it move make

00:28:43.760 it move faster it's not all about you if you can if you're slow you have a cabinet of like 21 people

00:28:48.240 pass it around pass some stuff around and you know and move but um anyways i i don't think the bill

00:28:56.080 of rights is near and dear to her well i know it's not i mean we all remember what's near and dear to her

00:29:02.320 is her sovereignty act and i think she'd love to try her sovereignty act and and prove that that's

00:29:07.840 good enough and that the bill of rights is unnecessary i think she she she she locked onto

00:29:14.800 the bill of rights as a quick win for this agm you could see it when the black hats showed up they got

00:29:20.640 a victory now and i think those black hats got played because the the bill as it stands is not what

00:29:27.840 they wanted i you know those clauses in there especially that that opening clause that limitation

00:29:32.880 clause um they're going to regret it if if uh if the bill goes through that's not what they wanted

00:29:39.600 and and a key member of the black hat team who wasn't there and he's been extremely vocal online

00:29:45.760 for the last two or three days is layton gray layton gray of the gray pot gray matter podcast and

00:29:52.000 layton's a lawyer and i think layton had as much say in writing that i know he does i met layton in

00:29:57.600 person to talk about this about two months ago and layton he's not happy so um and and we all were

00:30:05.200 you there did you witness the the the noon debate no you guys were doing the um we were doing the

00:30:11.040 youth debate at the time i was able to watch a recording of it we were yeah we were filming a

00:30:15.840 youth debate we didn't we weren't there in person but even watching the recording you could see

00:30:20.240 people were kind of treating that almost as a discussion on the nitty-gritty elements of the

00:30:28.880 bill rather than a voting it forward as a yes this is something that we're pursuing as a matter of

00:30:36.800 policy yeah well it was a motion right it was motion 35 i think or 36 like almost an entire page of motion

00:30:43.840 written in like size six font i mean it was crazy house and and uh and and people mixed up the motion

00:30:51.280 with the fact that on the the bill i mean the motion basically the motion you know for the viewers again

00:30:57.120 on the floor of the of the agm the the the the organization the members present motions ideas uh for

00:31:07.760 policy for the direction right i mean throughout the year uh different every constituency association

00:31:13.680 even individuals like myself we could have presented ideas so 600 to 800 ideas were presented then a

00:31:20.240 committee of volunteers who are members of the ucp uh pared down that list of 600 found the ones that

00:31:27.920 are in common and adjusted them and then presented 237 or something like that and then for the last two

00:31:35.680 months leading to the agm we ranked those 200 and 35 made it onto the floor of the agm

00:31:44.000 so so motions get debated and then and when accepted they're given to the government to

00:31:49.840 try and potentially turn them into legislation so yes the in in in simple terms the motion said

00:31:56.320 we'd like the bill of rights to be either strengthened or revised that's it that's what should have been

00:32:01.200 debated on the floor you know do you want the government to do that do you want the government to

00:32:06.560 to take a crack at revising the bill of rights well weirdly the government heard that throughout

00:32:13.600 the summer and rushed to revise the bill of rights and issued it as bill 24 like monday last week so

00:32:20.960 of course the floor was confused because we're debating a motion asking the government to revise

00:32:26.000 the bill of rights and the bill of rights already been revised so there was two groups the groups are

00:32:30.160 literally arguing with each other i mean if you close your eyes you know there there's a row of

00:32:34.960 guys that are for the motion and a row against the motion and when i close my eyes listening to people

00:32:40.080 debate i couldn't tell on what side they were and and and it was obvious that people were confusing the

00:32:45.360 motion and the bill as it exists it passed so what passed on the floor is basically the notion that

00:32:52.320 um or what passed on the floor is that the government should revise the bill of rights so the black

00:32:56.480 hats they're all happy they got what they wanted but i don't think they're going to be happy uh if the

00:33:02.480 bill stays as is so it makes me wonder not and and you'll have to forgive me for not knowing kind

00:33:10.080 of the minutiae of it but putting on a conspiratorial sort of hat here do you think that uh this sort of

00:33:17.920 the seemingly out of nowhere talk about this bill you mentioned something more near and dear to danielle is

00:33:25.120 alberta sovereignty do you believe do you think that there could be any sort of um you know group

00:33:32.400 of people using this bill of rights as a as a distraction or something to sort of take time away

00:33:37.680 from more serious talk of a sovereignty act that may be more consequential no no i don't think so actually

00:33:45.680 i think i think i think this summer you know danielle did a tour this summer she did god bless her she

00:33:52.000 did like 20 town halls i went to seven of them and at the town hall she was telling us the things she

00:33:58.960 had done but she was hearing constantly all this noise there were people saying like when you're

00:34:03.680 going to give us a tax break when you're going to ban the covet shots when are you going to allow us

00:34:08.400 to have ivermectin like there were some recurring themes that came over when you're going to when you're

00:34:12.480 going to address ahs like when you're going to address ahs so at the town halls she'd tell us her side of the

00:34:18.320 story and the people would push back with six or seven things that they wanted done and they were

00:34:22.880 complicated well they're not all complicated oh and here's another one too how come you're not

00:34:26.960 interfering in coups like i can repeat them right so she was being hit by six or seven things but a very

00:34:32.720 strong group called the black hats also started asking about this bill of rights like they they saw

00:34:39.280 it as a way to solve the covid problem and the overreach problems and other things like that

00:34:45.360 danielle sees one way as sees the sovereignty act as a more important thing because she sees um

00:34:52.720 ottawa encroaching on us more of a threat than covid was but anyways so i think when she heard all that

00:34:59.360 noise throughout the town halls and she was taking notes one of the things were the really quick fast

00:35:04.480 one she could do was the bill of rights because she didn't do anything else she she's not giving us a

00:35:08.960 tax break she's been clear on that you know there's no money for the tax break uh she's she's

00:35:14.800 tackling ahs but that one's complicated uh she did a little bit of something on uh trans rights she's

00:35:21.280 not gonna she's not gonna ban the covet shots because she wants to keep giving people uh choices

00:35:27.040 she's not giving us ivermectin or hcq because that's up to the college of surgeons like you know

00:35:33.360 what i mean it it so she she um the bill of rights was an easy quick win and and and and and a reversal

00:35:41.280 on immigration which we never heard about right never heard about it well look at the other one

00:35:45.760 she hasn't done no no nothing on the alberta pension plan that went out the door like every

00:35:50.480 time that was brought up this summer uh nothing on um collecting your own taxes nothing on stopping

00:35:56.800 equalization like it was a really like really like the agm didn't talk about a lot of things but

00:36:03.040 is she reading the room correctly if the if if the six thousand people at the agm were a perfect mix

00:36:12.320 of a a perfect random representation of the province then she read it properly because she got 91

00:36:20.160 i'm not sure that's that's where we're back right i i think um she's she's got her own agenda she can't

00:36:26.960 move very fast she has this now you're getting me now you're spinning me again yeah yeah now i'm now

00:36:32.400 i'm back to where i was a week ago she's got her own agenda she can't move very fast the powers that

00:36:36.800 be are dealing sending her in the direction so how does she calm everything down make sure you got

00:36:42.560 six thousand people who are friendly come to the agm vote in your favor and if there's a little radical

00:36:48.960 group in that in those six thousand a i.e the black hats then then calm them down with a quick um

00:36:58.240 quick uh bill of rights well played danielle well played well and there's even a part of this where

00:37:06.240 i try like but keep on telling mike that like even just with the people that we follow or the people we

00:37:13.120 get information from or political leaders that like it's good to have zero heroes always be critical

00:37:20.480 and always just take what they say and what they do and try to just evaluate it as time goes on

00:37:28.080 because as soon as we have a hero then we're just they can just be doing whatever and this is how we

00:37:33.360 get into groupthink is just by you'll find a way to rationalize it or justify yeah um yep so i'm still

00:37:41.280 undecided sorry but just you're just making me think of something it's interesting how we how

00:37:46.320 humans will rationalize things right i i just watched a video on this topic not too long ago where um

00:37:53.520 somebody had done a study and was presenting information to people and and and and they were

00:37:59.200 correlating the people with their political uh ideology and it was crazy how how people people

00:38:06.080 um call it a scientist a would would interpret data nine nine times out of ten perfectly correctly

00:38:15.280 but on the one tenth example which was presented to that scientist which was very political

00:38:20.960 he would twist it in a way to make to he would ignore the facts and and when that evidence is

00:38:27.360 presented like that you go wow humans are crazy anyway sorry to sort of cut your thought off but yes

00:38:32.800 and and but to expand on that point um that we still have blind spots and this is where

00:38:41.760 as we discuss things on this podcast and we're exploring things we never claim to have like a

00:38:46.720 hundred percent full either like whatever we say is still subject to we may come across new information

00:38:55.440 and we may have opinions on it but we're not going to hammer down be like we're a hundred percent right

00:38:59.840 about this um because there's so much we see there's so much we don't see um i'm still going to call

00:39:06.800 things out but i'm also trying to like understand there are limitations of like as soon as you get

00:39:14.160 into these structures within the political sphere there are some things that can be done more easily than

00:39:21.840 others and even like the pension plan i think they're still i don't know if this is legit or not

00:39:28.080 um still waiting on the even to get the review of like what the numbers and so that's like you

00:39:37.120 you put that out you have to wait for it to come back and there's almost stages of like

00:39:42.000 how much you can move until you have some of these pieces in play so i wonder if the bill of rights is

00:39:48.000 like that and the sovereignty like are these things that within the constraints that we have on some of

00:39:55.040 these other sides other places are these things that can be changed within the power without within

00:40:02.240 the framework that well currently exists and and interestingly enough camera maybe it was keith

00:40:09.600 wilson or one of the lawyers somebody brought that up but somebody said that actually changing quickly

00:40:15.280 changing our bill of rights is actually one of the most anti-conservative things you could do

00:40:22.880 like you know as conservatives we we would want to real conservatives would want to debate this one

00:40:28.800 long and hard you don't want a new bill of rights next week which at this pace like wow you know like

00:40:36.800 we talked about it a month ago and now we're going to get it so that that's you know that it's kind of

00:40:41.520 an oxymoron or a contradiction of terms right i mean you got we can't move quickly on shrinking the size of

00:40:48.560 of alberta health services but we can move quickly on changing a cornerstone of our democracy like

00:40:55.040 that's you know so so that doesn't resonate very well with we we would want it quick if it's a super

00:41:01.840 robust and excellent document but how do we get a super robust and excellent document that quickly

00:41:09.200 that only it only gets robust when you have a lot of thought put into it and it goes through that back

00:41:15.760 and forth like well you don't you don't do it in a week no and look at the american model right that's

00:41:21.520 why the american i mean i love the americans and god bless them tonight but you know the americans

00:41:26.320 came up with a constitution in 1776 right like that's 300 years ago almost and uh it stood the test

00:41:33.440 of time it's brilliant it was written by guys who are younger than you guys right like i mean benjamin

00:41:38.880 franklin was like whatever would you know did you guys tell me was it with you that we're having this

00:41:43.200 chat like i mean franklin was 28 or something like that and and by modern standards like uneducated

00:41:49.520 right i mean he was extremely educated but but what what what he had learned in a lifetime our kids

00:41:55.120 learned that by grade 12 kind of thing and and and they didn't revise the constitution they amended it

00:42:03.680 several times by adding little bits right not the constitution their bill of rights right they added

00:42:08.480 one two three four fifteen amendments over time so i'd love to go down that path especially here

00:42:13.920 in alberta look at the one we have and just go what's the amendment that we need like right now

00:42:18.480 they're calling it a revision or a reissuance and i i am i'm not i'm not really in favor of that i'd prefer

00:42:25.200 well i'm i'll tell you what i'm not in favor of the way it's written i mean um you know they they

00:42:30.560 they cut and paste um uh section one of the canadian charter of rights and put it in there

00:42:37.760 and that's the notwithstanding clause now the notwithstanding comes a little bit later i think

00:42:42.880 section one is more like a limitation clause right okay and subject to reasonable limits yeah yeah the

00:42:48.880 reasonable limits which what is defined who defines that that's the big question well you think we'd be

00:42:55.680 able to define that but apparently um yeah that is a is a pandemic reasonable enough like when when

00:43:05.200 can these rights be limited and if if nobody knows then like i guess we're just finding out when it's

00:43:14.080 the least convenient when we need these rights the most they're going to be found unreasonable so

00:43:19.760 i i still think that there's okay that's right i i still think there's inalienable rights you know

00:43:29.280 like the one of the ones that people said could have limits i agree is maybe perhaps property rights

00:43:35.120 right like do you have the absolute right to own anything and somebody said no when i throw you in

00:43:39.600 jail i've i've taken away your right to own stuff i'd argue that no you haven't in fact because

00:43:45.600 you're in jail you've taken away my right to enjoy what i own but you haven't taken it away right so

00:43:51.040 it is the right to own property and speech i'm in jail can i take away your right to speak no um so

00:43:58.720 so what do i take away i mean the example people say is while you're in jail i'm taking away your

00:44:03.360 right to own firearms again you can still own them you just can't use them um yeah it's an interesting

00:44:09.680 debate and and i'd like and and i've met you know how how many times in our lifetimes you go through

00:44:14.960 uh uh a revision of a bill of rights there was one in my lifetime i in 88 but i was a kid

00:44:21.760 so i'd like to debate this one i'd like to i'd like to i think there should be uh it shouldn't just be

00:44:28.240 debated in the assembly with uh among a bunch of politicians it should really make uh i mean we're

00:44:35.120 about to spend more time talking about the alberta pension plan than we will the alberta bill of

00:44:39.200 rights like come on let's let's talk the bill of rights yeah if it's going forward yeah this should

00:44:45.040 be like a a deep process and not just isolated to officials like this should be very transparent

00:44:54.480 and very open to the public and um because this this is if any foundational document you

00:45:02.960 you need to get it right if if things are going to be built or decisions are going to be made upon this

00:45:08.800 but and but let's talk let's let's talk just a little bit further for the viewers right i mean

00:45:14.320 um i did talk we you i think you were there maybe you weren't but i was talking to mickey amory like the

00:45:20.800 alberta's attorney general and uh who's the one presenting this and i asked him specifically about

00:45:26.240 that limitation clause and he said it has to be in there i'm like well we don't have one now so why do we

00:45:33.440 need one and he says he says that if if our bill of rights makes it in front of the judges and there's

00:45:40.000 some challenges the judges in this country apparently they impose limitations they're they're not willing

00:45:46.000 to accept that all rights are inalienable that's what he said he's like so i'm like the judges don't

00:45:52.480 accept that all rights are inalienable and if there's no limitation the judges will just go through his

00:45:58.320 rolodex and find that limitation and put one in there so mickey said we have to put one in there

00:46:03.120 i'm like no like tell the judge he's wrong and tell the judge that the rights are inalienable and

00:46:09.840 then the judge doesn't have to decide on that like i found that whole concept scary extremely scary and

00:46:16.000 worrisome like the judges and that's the problem with the judiciary in this country like they're there

00:46:20.880 to arbitrate and and if if a judge says there's no limits it appears like there's no limits and there

00:46:27.120 should be i mean like okay that's great judge thank you you've made your opinion known and there should

00:46:31.280 be limits and and therefore you rule that make make a ruling that you can't rule because you don't know

00:46:36.720 if there's limits or not and send it back to somebody else and to put or clarify if there's limits so

00:46:43.040 um isn't that subjected to the same if if it's put on the judges you run in the issue of

00:46:50.880 a bias can influence this more than what we want because we ran into that with covid of you had

00:46:57.760 judges making decisions and these are older judges that were likely like older liberal judges that were

00:47:04.640 likely very scared of covid and their interpretation of the situation was constrained to their own bias

00:47:13.120 and i i'm wondering how much their individual fear shifted their some of these rulings i i know

00:47:20.240 we've had a couple wins when it comes to to covid but there's other ones where it was real a real

00:47:27.840 struggle and some of these decisions were not yeah without without bias so you don't want to remove the

00:47:34.560 bias and you and you run into the issue too of you know if like like you were saying marty if you don't

00:47:40.240 have some sort of limiting principle some sort of you know this is inalienable we like you were you're

00:47:47.040 mentioning your your admiration for the u.s constitution which i share the the the wording

00:47:51.760 of inalienable and we hold these truths to be self-evident like those that strong language like

00:47:57.040 that is what you build the country off of and if you have these sort of weasel words of you know

00:48:01.920 subject to reasonable limits and well then you then you run the risk of exactly what we saw happening

00:48:07.280 two three four years ago of activist judges not acting in the best interest of of a of a reasonable

00:48:14.800 objective interpretation of law but just allowing themselves to be swept up in a moment and allowing

00:48:21.200 you know passing uh maybe fears or emotions to to influence something that's very consequential

00:48:27.040 and shouldn't be subject to those things right well well and look at what's going on right now so

00:48:31.680 so we had covid and uh we we have our own charter uh the federal charter of rights and freedoms right

00:48:39.440 and it dates back to like 1988 89 and it hasn't been tested it's been tested a few times but this was a

00:48:46.320 big test for it right and um and and and so you got guys like brian peckford who actually helped draft

00:48:55.200 that piece of legislation and and he's saying that it was misinterpreted by the judges or by the not the

00:49:04.160 judges by the government and they abused their power and we need the judges to adjudicate on that

00:49:09.760 and now the judges said uh it's moot we're not going to adjudicate on it i'm like shit we have

00:49:15.120 a document that's 30 years old gets tested once every 30 years and now you guys aren't even going

00:49:20.080 to allow to test us now on the good side that means that okay um there's not a lot of abuses but

00:49:26.560 the abuse to me was significant enough in the last little while that i'd like it adjudicated to see if

00:49:31.600 the you know if it's good or not and and maybe we should wait until the judge somebody adjudicates

00:49:37.840 the current charter before we cut and paste it into the alberta one so you know the the one we

00:49:44.160 have hasn't been tested a lot the americans have been testing there since 1776 we need to

00:49:49.440 you know we haven't tested ours well actually i think we tested it and it failed as far as i'm concerned

00:49:54.640 it was a big fail tony you say that actually because we james and i talk about this a lot about how like

00:49:59.760 canadians sort of have this reputation on the global stage of being like very uh you know very

00:50:05.680 polite and very passive and very you know and and we've sort of have had that reputation because

00:50:10.480 we've acted that way you know we've been very uh you know just sort of laissez-faire about how things

00:50:16.320 uh you know are going politically we just sort of get along uh but yeah it's not unless you have a a very

00:50:23.520 difficult conversation about what are the extents of these of these words written down here that we

00:50:29.440 truly get to it like when when it hits the fan like you want to be firm in your standing you

00:50:34.400 don't want to be like subject to the winds of change right get brian peckford on your show man

00:50:39.520 now he i don't even want to entertain him like oh sorry not entertain him if you get brian peckford on

00:50:45.200 your show just let him talk it's just let him talk like he's just fascinating i met him in victoria

00:50:51.280 this summer and uh wow wow what a man yeah well the fact that judges didn't listen to him you think

00:51:00.960 somebody who's involved with the with writing or the charter you you think like you think you should

00:51:09.440 listen to somebody well you know yeah but judges judges are you know call them paid they're paid

00:51:18.160 to try and interpret what somebody meant when they wrote something and so they don't want that

00:51:25.600 person alive that's that's my conclusion they i mean it's like yeah you'd think hey you got brian

00:51:30.640 right here so call brian but then the judge is going to then the judge doesn't have to interpret

00:51:35.360 he's just going to listen to brian so that's not an interpretation brian peckford is it's inconvenient

00:51:42.000 that he's still here yes to the to the judges yeah that's dark man it's dark i know it's dark but i

00:51:49.840 mean you know you like you it's like yeah that's the way it is because everybody said that don't try

00:51:54.880 and interpret the guy's right there put him on the stand and say hey brian when you wrote section five

00:52:00.480 that you said you know we're allowed to travel across the country what'd you mean and and and then he'll

00:52:07.280 tell you and then and then you can go oh okay well then yeah um preventing canadians from getting on

00:52:13.440 planes because they were unvaccinated was against section five you know why i know that because

00:52:17.440 brian told me that yeah it's against it i asked brian that specific question like were they wrong in

00:52:22.960 shutting us down and brian's like absolutely it's a it's a god-given right so and uh and people make

00:52:30.560 the argument that uh we're traveling by plane and that's not god-given or whatever you know swim

00:52:36.000 to vancouver i'm like yeah okay i'm gonna swim to vancouver yeah you know come on it's it's uh

00:52:41.840 and those are the things where um those are the things where documents like the american constitution

00:52:47.040 had to anticipate some of those things right like um travel you have to write the word travel

00:52:53.680 in a generic enough term that it doesn't just mean on foot or something else it means getting from

00:52:59.120 a to b is traveling and you're allowed to do that in your country whether it's the mode is irrelevant

00:53:05.200 but ours are written where our ours are interpreted that the mode is important i'm like okay isn't that

00:53:12.000 convenient i can only travel a certain way yeah yeah even in the states right now times

00:53:19.440 so in the states this this kind of dovetails nicely that um a big issue with this election in the states

00:53:26.480 is abortion rights and a lot of people still don't understand that that is tied to the states roe v way

00:53:35.840 put the power back into the states so it seems like a lot of people this fear-mongering around

00:53:42.160 the abortion rights being taken away well it was shifted back to the state level so you're not even

00:53:47.680 voting on like that sentiment like that the language behind that that the rhetoric does not even make

00:53:56.240 sense based on what currently exists in the states so the fear is not warranted yeah i'll be i'll be

00:54:03.920 honest that's not a topic i've been following i i tried to even tweet about that today but it's really

00:54:09.680 not like my kids are older and i have boys and stuff like that it's abortion and abortion just doesn't

00:54:15.920 make my list right and i and and i hate when i hate that here in canada they do the same thing

00:54:20.800 right i mean they're maybe maybe maybe for the next election i'll get up to speed i need to get up to

00:54:26.000 speed on abortion and because i know the liberals are going to bring it up so yeah sorry anytime they're

00:54:31.120 losing they will yeah yeah i'm just i'm not on uh there's a couple of topics that i don't talk a lot

00:54:37.920 about i don't i don't talk about reproductive rights because i'm a man that perhaps is one of the things

00:54:43.280 and the other one is i avoid religion i don't talk religion honestly man it's probably better for

00:54:48.480 your health but don't get into it yeah yeah well speaking of the us why don't we uh why don't we do

00:54:55.120 that why don't we talk about that i'm just i've got the i've got the results in my in my other tab

00:54:59.760 here i've been refreshing a little bit in the background while you guys are trying to see what's

00:55:03.280 going on yeah yeah uh 188 seats for trump right now to 99 for harris looks like trump has about

00:55:10.560 52 and a half percent of the popular vote i've been watching uh pennsylvania go from

00:55:16.640 uh it was like they they only started reporting sort of the like border uh um i don't know what

00:55:23.280 the term is like uh counties uh and it was like 69 percent uh kamala to start and i was like there's

00:55:29.360 no way like there's no effing way that pennsylvania goes like 70 percent democrat uh and now it looks to

00:55:35.760 be closing up on 50 50 it's 50.4 harris and 48.7 uh trump with 38 percent reporting so getting

00:55:45.360 really tight there i know that's a big one yeah yeah i know that's a big one so it seems like all

00:55:49.760 the southeast is red do you know offhand the seven ones that they call the um the the key states or

00:55:55.840 whatever i i know pennsylvania swing swing states yeah yeah yeah uh let's let's google it uh seven swing

00:56:02.560 states 2024 uh that's gonna be uh georgia michigan nevada north carolina pennsylvania wisconsin

00:56:11.680 okay and it looks like generally speaking anybody who wins say three of those has got the election

00:56:17.360 right that's kind of the i think that's pretty fair yeah i think that's about right so it looks like

00:56:22.640 uh uh trump is leading in uh okay georgia for sure uh nevada hasn't coming in hasn't been coming

00:56:29.840 in north carolina he's leading uh i think wisconsin he's leading i don't he uh kamala's leading

00:56:36.720 wisconsin but it's tight it's 49.3 harris and 49.2 trump with 34 reporting interesting interestingly

00:56:46.000 minnesota is uh is uh leaning trump right now 62 with only one percent reporting but that's interesting

00:56:52.960 because of walls right yeah the blue wall state the minnesota and uh yeah okay interesting yeah you

00:56:59.840 know to be honest i don't like these um i don't like these uh two-party systems uh ours well i don't

00:57:07.680 like him but i also don't like ours i i mean i like ours i i like what do you like marty what do you like

00:57:14.080 no i i like multi-party systems like ours but with a different method of counting like a rank ballot or

00:57:19.760 something like that because um a multi-party system like ours is great but not with the first

00:57:26.080 past the poll that's the problem with it so um otherwise i don't like the two state the two-party

00:57:34.080 systems because there's the they're almost always 50 50 mathematically you know yeah and then if you've

00:57:39.360 got well and if you've got a you know um you know canada by and large is you know even our conservative

00:57:45.440 parties are are fairly liberal you know in the global context and so when you've got

00:57:50.000 you know three or four parties of liberals or or you know a couple you know mixed parties of

00:57:54.720 conservatives all you end up doing really is just stealing votes off of each other and you never get

00:57:58.880 like a true you know representation of competing ideologies right if you recall that was one of

00:58:04.400 trudeau's uh big um in 2015 his big uh uh campaign promises was removing first past the post right

00:58:12.560 i i uh i did a i did a little series uh i did a thread on twitter last week on alternates to first

00:58:20.880 past the post uh ranked ballots are pretty close you know come close um but even ranked ballots

00:58:28.240 it's it's some some some scientists in the 1950s did a study on on um on on the best outcome for

00:58:37.120 selecting from multiple choices and he had some criterias you know like the majority of people

00:58:42.240 should be the the the will of the majority should be reflected in the outcome uh if the majority of

00:58:48.240 people prefer a over b and b over c then c should never be selected and he had like these five criteria

00:58:54.880 kind of thing he analyzed it sort of from a mathematical philosophical fairness point of

00:59:00.080 view and and he determined that there's no system of voting that meets all the criteria but rank ballots

00:59:06.960 comes close um but there is a there is an alternative that a few places have used like the catholic church

00:59:14.480 for selecting a pope they don't use a ranked ballot they use a um um a likability score or a

00:59:23.440 popularity score of some sort so yeah that's yes i'm sad that trudeau didn't stick with that i i think

00:59:31.360 you know we we are a 157 year old democracy with some really outdated old rules to it i i'd like to

00:59:40.960 see some things refreshed the voting is one of them yeah i wonder if um this is certainly too big of a

00:59:48.560 topic to to get into and and we didn't we should have talked about if you had a hard out or anything

00:59:52.560 before this we were approaching an hour here but um is uh just maybe pulling back to the alberta

00:59:59.680 sovereignty act um you know if we're talking about different you know alternative uh means of voting

01:00:04.400 uh is that something that you've you've put much thought into do you do you have much of an opinion

01:00:09.200 on on what uh what an alberta sovereignty um or like sorry rather an alberta separatist movement might look

01:00:17.200 like um i know that's a huge question no it's a huge question i mean no i mean i haven't i haven't

01:00:28.400 i just want to separate i haven't thought how i haven't thought what we'd look like right like but

01:00:32.240 you do want to you do think that that's good that's a good idea i i i i'm i'm pretty much leaning on

01:00:39.040 the side that confederation as it is is a bit of a failed experiment and for a couple of reasons

01:00:44.000 reasons but the the the primary reason i mean the americans show us the opposite but i i think

01:00:50.480 i think we're too big of a country with too many regions and it's just too darn hard to to find

01:00:56.400 commonality and and i think no matter what we're going to be uh definitely as a confederation like

01:01:03.440 we are that won't work maybe as a as a republic like the us with states where they have the real power

01:01:09.120 and you know but but i i i find i find confederation our version of it to be kind of a broken experiment

01:01:16.400 and i don't see an easy fix other than a complete gut and restart and and that's not going to happen

01:01:23.040 so i'd rather just leave and and and if i thought alberta was going to leave soon i wouldn't reinvent the

01:01:29.200 wheel i would go around the world and look at what what systems work where and then just say let's do it

01:01:35.440 that way so um but but that might be a challenge because even looking around the world i don't see

01:01:43.760 a lot of really good democracies actually in fact i think weirdly why why do democracy democracies come

01:01:51.200 and go and fall out of favor like it does look like i would have always thought that democracy would

01:01:56.320 be so robust but they seem to be fragile more fragile than i thought so kudos to the americans and

01:02:03.200 maybe to us like we've we've kept it going for a long time so yeah i think and sorry james i'm kind

01:02:09.360 of bogart in the mic here i'll let you have some thoughts after this i kind of think that uh democracies

01:02:15.360 can be robust when you have really strong social buy-in to to uh uh um to a project kind of and you've

01:02:24.080 got you've got a lot of homogeneity in your in your population and i don't mean in a in a in a racial

01:02:31.040 way i mean in like a like a an attitude way culture attitude yeah yeah exactly and i think maybe

01:02:38.080 when a when a a modern liberal democracy gets maybe a little long in the tooth it some of those ideals

01:02:45.360 that it promotes somewhat uh ironically have an effect of actually dividing the the the populace with

01:02:53.040 too much individuality and then you never reach consensus on stuff maybe that has something to do with

01:02:57.200 it well no that that absolutely does i mean that's the um it's interesting that that the

01:03:05.280 couple of things come to mind first of all the first thought i was thinking of is um democracy

01:03:10.400 and a good successful democracy that brings a lot about with it comfort and and luxury and spare time

01:03:18.800 creates a problem right and i think we see that that's one of the problems we see i mean when i look

01:03:23.120 at governments in across the spectrum in that in and some of the things that they're talking about

01:03:27.760 i'm like yeah we have too much spare time on our hands so now we're dividing ourselves over stuff

01:03:32.640 that's absolutely ridiculous right like we the water's good the streets are good the schools are

01:03:38.480 good so now we're going to fight over whether or not there should be bicycle lanes in winter i'm like

01:03:43.440 oh my god okay like i'm you know it's maybe it's a bad example but i i think it brings about some of

01:03:49.360 that so we fight over things that where when you really think about it you go what the hell are we

01:03:52.880 fighting over like this is ridiculous uh and and then and then that leads to what you what you were

01:03:59.280 hinting at which is we fight over things and then and then to get our point some of the things we're

01:04:04.800 fighting over or demanding is like well i i need this because right i i i you society needs to protect

01:04:12.480 all of us and i'm not getting something and i i almost need to make an excuse for wanting something i need

01:04:17.840 i need a you know and and so now we we try to one up each other in in the terms of the needs which

01:04:25.360 leads to a victimhood like we want something from the government right i mean the government gives you

01:04:30.480 money because you're raising kids and the other guy goes well i don't have kids but i want something

01:04:34.800 so they got to come up with something and and the next thing you know now we're playing victims and

01:04:39.840 we're trying to one up each other and that's the whole thing that that whole victimhood what's it

01:04:44.000 called the intersection of uh of um like the the whole vic we we we get back down to being individuals

01:04:52.320 which is where and we can we can solve that problem easily with these inalienable rights and

01:04:57.680 forget about all the government and go back to being anarchists like it's and it's fascinating it's

01:05:03.360 fascinating so the the what a democracy assumes that everybody's well informed or like it it can only

01:05:11.920 function if people have the right information so that that's our first flaw is that canada and our

01:05:19.680 media and just the general amount of knowledge and understanding that the average person has is not

01:05:25.680 robust enough for us to be making well-informed decisions and we've also got our provincial the

01:05:31.440 way that we're set up with their provinces the way that we're set up with the number of seats

01:05:36.560 um geographically split up and certain areas have more a little bit more power in making

01:05:45.520 like canada-wide decisions than other regions so you're seeing an imbalance and this almost

01:05:52.240 tracks like you have an imbalance from rural to urban but you also have a imbalance from west to east

01:05:58.960 and the other thing is when you have some of these imbalances and when you have certain incentives

01:06:04.480 you will naturally get behavior following whatever incentive there is so if there is

01:06:09.840 right now with quebec you have the incentive that

01:06:14.480 the equalization payments disproportionately end up in quebec right now but that also hinges on

01:06:21.920 how much energy they make and because their numbers are a certain way if they increase their energy

01:06:29.120 output their equalization payments would go down and that would be recalculated and the benefit they

01:06:35.920 get just like how nobody wants to reduce the amount of benefit they get when they're a victim in on the

01:06:42.640 individual sentence or in the group sense if the incentives are well you're not doing well and we're

01:06:48.560 just going to give you money for that you will find the behavior matching the incentive structure

01:06:54.640 totally we're seeing that individual and also countrywide well in the case of the equalization

01:07:00.320 for quebec uh i'll even say this the equalization formula is so bizarre that certain promises

01:07:07.600 include certain things in the calculation and others don't like i mean um oh that's a that's a

01:07:13.760 complicated one that's a to me to me equalization is just a disincentive it's it's one of those it

01:07:20.000 shouldn't exist it just shouldn't exist that you know it it sucks that uh that some i some area might

01:07:27.920 have an economic disadvantage for something but that's that's just the way it is this because

01:07:33.600 the equalization has i i dare say it hasn't worked right i mean the maybe not in the case of quebec but

01:07:39.760 we'd always hear that in the case of some of the other maritime provinces they they are purposely doing

01:07:46.160 things just to collect their equalization so yeah yeah and in hamstrings their own industry i mean

01:07:51.760 we've seen i i remember i can't remember exactly who was talking about it but um a lot of people

01:07:57.200 don't realize how much natural gas reserves quebec has and they they actively don't pursue the development

01:08:03.360 of it because if they produce too much of it and they got too wealthy from it they'd stop receiving as

01:08:08.960 much equalization you probably on your show right now talking to me you're talking to probably one of

01:08:16.320 the most knowledgeable people in canada on gas reserves in quebec i was the president of a quebec

01:08:24.880 based gas producer called petrolia right up until 2019 we got expropriated by the government of quebec

01:08:33.600 because there was a change in government the the funny enough the separatist party wanted to develop

01:08:40.480 the reserves and we and and we got an open door policy you know they were very welcoming to us

01:08:47.840 and then there was a flip of government and the liberal government of quebec did not want to exploit

01:08:52.720 their gas they tried to block us at every step of the way in ways that were so ridiculous until finally

01:08:59.440 the qr the minister literally took a piece of paper like this one and wrote an order in council on

01:09:06.320 there saying there will be no oil and gas development in in our area specifically and he expropriated us

01:09:13.040 my boss wanted us to fight i'm like we're we're done we're we're it's a losing battle and i remember

01:09:19.600 being in meetings with the minister and he purposely he basically said he didn't even want to look for gas

01:09:27.520 because he said why would i look for gas what happens if i find some yeah and i'm referring to

01:09:34.000 natural gas right he didn't even want to find it he didn't want to even know la la la la la la la

01:09:38.640 i don't want it and he has lots of reserves there's huge reserves in quebec i mean i'll

01:09:43.760 i'll say this then i'll shut up but you know if you look at if if i if i gave you a map of the world

01:09:49.920 of uh of the continent of north america and you see all like you've heard of pennsylvania right pens oil and

01:09:55.760 all that and and standard oil like pennsylvania new york like there's oil all through there right

01:10:00.800 a little bit of oil in ontario and then there's oil in newfoundland offshore newfoundland there's

01:10:05.360 a ton of oil but there's a there's a gap in between where there's no holes in the ground and no oil

01:10:11.360 wells it's not because there's no oil it's because the people in quebec don't want to look for it

01:10:15.520 so it's there like it's in fact it's a nice big huge sedimentary basin almost as big as the one in

01:10:21.520 alberta like oh miss pennsylvania new york those states have virginia they've produced a lot of

01:10:28.080 oil over the years yeah yeah yeah no quebec is quebec is betting on um quebec's betting on on um

01:10:36.240 on electricity right and and that's always a i always find that an ironic statement when they

01:10:40.960 look at us i go well you guys are you're you're betting everything on oil i'm like well yeah it's

01:10:45.520 it's what i have it's my strength you're betting everything on uh on electricity am i going to make

01:10:50.960 fun of the british colombians for betting everything on salmon no like you you you go with your strength

01:10:57.200 it's a pretty safe bet until uh you know the the world completely remakes itself i would guess right

01:11:03.920 i i i think we're safe i mean that the pragmatic marty knows that uh well again for for you guys i'm

01:11:11.040 sure you know this but the oil the the planet burns through a hundred million barrels of oil a day

01:11:17.760 like it's not like people go oh that's got to be per month or per year it's like no no no no no no

01:11:22.240 no it's a hundred million barrels a day that goes up in flames or turned into plastics or whatever

01:11:29.680 and alberta makes four million barrels a day like four percent of the world's demand comes from alberta

01:11:34.960 when danielle says we're gonna double it to eight i'm like we should like absolutely and we can we just

01:11:41.040 easily yeah well the thing that that infuriates me about this is that uh and and this number may

01:11:48.000 have increased since i last looked up the statistic but uh and i'm sure you know this the the maritimes

01:11:54.480 imports about i think it's about 125 000 barrels of saudi oil a day in their ports which is it's absurd

01:12:02.880 there's absolutely if you want it if you are somebody who is concerned about the environment you

01:12:07.760 should be begging alberta to produce to to move through our own re oil resources in the in the way

01:12:13.120 that we do rather than buying dictator oil in my opinion yeah yeah no it's it's uh there's um

01:12:23.360 like what are we in alberta four and a half million people like basically ontario and quebec have 20

01:12:28.640 million people so and we're we're four and a half million people and we make four million barrels of

01:12:34.960 oil but we export about three million of those barrels and most of them go to the us so we keep

01:12:39.200 a million barrels a day for us so roughly let's say you know one quarter of your population if you

01:12:45.200 have four million each each person needs a quarter of a barrel a year kind of thing a day quarter barrel

01:12:51.520 a day that's what you need so quebec has quebec and ontario have 25 million people man that's eight

01:12:57.760 million barrels a day that they need to import and it comes from us the us and overseas it's a big big

01:13:04.720 number and i've had people like even today i joke that like we should shut off the taps and then

01:13:09.360 then it's hilarious because you know the ontarians go you want to kill us i'm like no i don't want to

01:13:13.920 kill you i just want to teach you a lesson like yeah yeah i'll give you tough love i'll give you a

01:13:19.760 week's notice stockpile all you want but then after two weeks when your car is sitting in the driveway

01:13:24.240 because it can't go anywhere then then maybe you'll realize that what you're proposing is silly

01:13:28.960 and um and and so you got half the the people respond to my tweet saying i'm an

01:13:33.520 asshole because i want to freeze them in the dark and then the other half said well that's fine we'll

01:13:36.800 just uh increase the volume that we bring in from saudi i'm like yeah on a frozen st lawrence

01:13:42.480 seaway in the middle of winter good luck

01:13:47.200 yeah and you'll build it and so you'll have to build a pipeline from from st john new brunswick to

01:13:52.400 ontario to carry it instead of using it from our side like come on folks please please please please

01:13:59.200 and that touches on one thing i noticed here in alberta is there's more people really diving deep

01:14:05.920 and thinking about sovereignty in the aspect of like well do we have everything we need to flourish

01:14:13.600 in alberta do we have everything we need to flourish in canada and we have certain politicians

01:14:18.960 that are very much they're playing into the global stage which means they are reducing

01:14:25.280 what canada can do for itself and shifting our reliance on the rest of the world or other

01:14:31.680 countries where we are a massive resource rich country with a huge amount of space and there's so

01:14:40.480 much we could do just to just to up our production and get all of our needs met from within canada first

01:14:49.200 make sure we have all the boxes checked and then look to see what we can do for the rest of the world

01:14:55.440 like wouldn't you want to just just hammer it home and just get the best canada from the ground up

01:15:03.920 absolutely and and i mean and and and we don't need every like we need to trade right i mean like

01:15:09.760 we don't need everything here i mean we have alberta has oil lumber um you know wheat and a bunch of

01:15:16.880 things do i do i do i need that and i i prefer to trade that with um with mexico for avocados and

01:15:25.600 oranges and olive oil and and picnic tables or whatever so i think that's the best system right

01:15:31.920 you work to your strength and we we all need to trade i hear that all the time like buy local buy

01:15:36.720 local and stop trading boy if you buy local and you stop trading like just you know i i challenge people

01:15:42.160 like do these little mental mental thought exercises like do a village of 50 people and

01:15:46.480 don't trade with anybody else and just buy local it'll be boring and and plus you'll you you won't

01:15:51.840 exist for very long you need to you know so we can't just buy local we have to trade and and and

01:15:59.040 lucky for alberta we have some of the most popular commodities like people will come to us no matter what

01:16:06.960 that's the other weird argument that if alberta goes on its own somehow or other there'll be these

01:16:11.120 weird walls around and nobody will buy from alberta no you know who'll buy from alberta first and

01:16:16.800 foremost the rest of canada like like it's like you know the rest of canada oh just because alberta is

01:16:23.440 independent you're not going to buy my oil my wheat my my fertilizer and my lumber oh you're going to keep

01:16:28.960 buying from us i'm just going to become a partner or not a partner a trading partner yeah actually i'll

01:16:34.080 become a trading partner and i'll become a competitor and trust me i don't think you want

01:16:37.280 to compete against us i mean um i'll sell the rest of canada potatoes cheaper than uh p i can do it

01:16:44.240 guarantee you p i wouldn't like us actually we make more potatoes in alberta than p i does

01:16:48.880 already so um yeah yeah don't don't i think you'd yeah i think you're better off having alberta as a

01:16:55.920 strong partner neighbor friend than as a competitor yeah i don't i don't think they're and i'll

01:17:02.800 say this it's a topic i've looked at long and hard i mean alberta on its own would be a g20

01:17:07.920 nation like we're we got a greater gdp than countries like ireland sweden israel south africa

01:17:15.440 like we're we're uh we're a powerhouse and canada without us is no longer well canada's not even

01:17:22.160 canada's a g10 nation as it stands so canada without alberta drops to uh whatever g15 yeah i've

01:17:30.880 heard that before too yeah i know that's that's totally right uh marty do we have you for five

01:17:35.440 more minutes yeah absolutely okay yeah then i want to go and watch the election results yes well that's

01:17:40.400 and that that's what i was gonna ask so so in uh you know however much time you got left give us your

01:17:45.280 give us your take on the u.s election what do you think uh make a prediction you know what do you think

01:17:50.400 will happen to canada either way um what are your what's your thoughts

01:17:54.480 um well first of all i'm predicting trump um you know i think at this time in history the americans

01:18:03.760 are really faced with this uh lesser of two evils right i mean not necessarily evil but you know it's

01:18:12.000 it's pretty crazy that in a country of 330 million these are the two people that they have up right an

01:18:16.800 82 year old man and uh in a in a washed up attorney general so they're gonna pick one um i think i

01:18:25.760 think uh they're gonna pick trump luckily i i do think trump 2.0 is a nicer person than trump 1.0 so

01:18:33.040 his handlers are doing a great job he's not as funny on twitter as he used to be but um uh so i think he'll

01:18:39.280 win it it should be good for canada but you know he is mentioning things that will be great for the

01:18:47.840 americans which could be devastating for us right like when he starts talking about imposing tariffs

01:18:52.480 on everything i think he's really taught i mean when you listen to him talk it's obvious who he's

01:18:56.960 thinking about it's it's it's almost as if canada is an afterthought for him and that's unfortunate is

01:19:02.080 that because of trudeau or whatever but when he's talking economic policies and things like that

01:19:06.160 he's thinking china he does think about mexico he really doesn't think about us and i think we're

01:19:10.960 one of it and i still think we're a bigger partner i'd have to look into that but we got to be

01:19:15.280 almost a bigger partner than uh than china for him so for certain resources yeah you'd imagine yeah

01:19:21.760 yeah yeah so um yeah i he's going to be good for the americans i think he's going to be good for

01:19:28.960 the americans they'll manage the divide there'll be some divide in the beginning but they'll they'll

01:19:32.880 get past that it won't be a civil war and um but he's gonna make uh he he might give some good um

01:19:43.280 ammo to trudeau for a while like they might or he might not actually won't right that trudeau hasn't

01:19:49.360 been uh like trudeau took advantage of trump 1.0 right for trump 1.0 was a evil orange man and trudeau

01:19:57.360 played that up and people gobbled it um i don't think he'll be able to use trump that way and i

01:20:04.880 think trump and poiliev will probably get along pretty good yeah i want to be there i want to be

01:20:10.800 i want to be in the room for the first meeting between trump and uh christian freeland oh god

01:20:18.400 i don't want to be in the same room with christian hey look at the trump team though i mean look at the

01:20:22.000 trump team right now like you know he's got he's got rfk on board yeah yeah and and vivek vivek is huge

01:20:29.600 too i think the vague and uh tulsi tulsi gabbard elon musk come on you know come on like man i mean

01:20:38.880 you know i'm an engineer man i geek out like if you're not yes they're not supposed to we're not

01:20:43.120 supposed to make heroes out of anybody i get it i get it elon would be a good one though if you had to

01:20:47.440 pick he's doing some fun things yeah yeah i mean my hero was an engineer and an astronaut marty's

01:20:55.200 hero is uh neil armstrong and if anybody and you want to piss me off you tell me the moon landings

01:21:00.240 never happened i'm blocking you right now we're done talking that's it that's uh that would you

01:21:05.360 know when we talked earlier about um evidence changing your persp like changing your mind or

01:21:11.200 something like that that's actually a good question right i've asked that to people like how often does

01:21:15.120 your real perspective get changed by new evidence and it happens it it does happen that would blow

01:21:23.840 my mind if somehow or other if somehow or other you know elon puts a spaceship in orbit around the moon

01:21:29.840 and they scan the whole surface and they don't find the um the ascent stage of uh apollo's one or 11

01:21:37.440 through uh 17 i'll be i'll be heartbroken well i think i think the the the best response i ever heard

01:21:45.760 for that and maybe this is a maybe this is a good thought to close up on if if the us didn't land on

01:21:51.840 the moon we would have heard about it in a literal second from the russians from the soviets the soviets

01:21:57.440 would have been all over that they wouldn't have let that stand right so i think i think we're pretty

01:22:01.920 safe on that conspiracy theory well there yeah there's another thought that um stanley kubrick

01:22:09.840 did it and if anybody's watched any of his films they know how he has so much attention to detail

01:22:16.960 the theory is that um stanley kubrick demanded them to film on location

01:22:21.280 i mean i'll tell you what this is this is this is bizarre but the like uh audio from apollo has

01:22:34.320 it's all been uploaded right it's all uploaded and i swear to god probably once every couple of weeks

01:22:39.520 i'll be i'll be sitting at my computer and i'll go to youtube and i'll i'll replay the whole uh uh you

01:22:46.400 know pdi sequence and and and pdi is power descent initiation and so from the moment they're orbiting

01:22:53.040 once they once they start pdi that's the those are the 15 minutes that lead to the landing and i've

01:22:58.240 probably memorized the pdi sequence for apollo's uh 11 12 and 13 and uh 14 so um that's how geeky i am

01:23:06.800 and and there's so much there's so much material like that for it to be fake it would have taken too

01:23:13.520 much effort i can't i can't believe it would have anyways great jack guys great seeing you guys this

01:23:18.960 weekend uh thanks a lot let's do this again anytime man like uh pick a maybe we'll pick a bigger topic

01:23:24.800 next time uh maybe we'll do the moon landings who knows let's talk about space man we we spend a lot

01:23:30.080 of time thinking about space so you betcha that's uh hey we really appreciate it that you guys spend

01:23:34.720 time thinking about stuff that's that's that you know that's one of my mottos right just spend time

01:23:39.280 thinking just just think it's so rare nowadays right yeah cool all right thanks marty super

01:23:46.400 appreciate your time man we'll uh we'll get this up soon and and uh for we'll put out all your socials

01:23:51.280 in the in the video description too yeah yeah let me know how you want to share this and then uh

01:23:56.720 um yeah i went through the i went through the agm pictures of the um of the uh put out by the ucp and

01:24:03.680 i was hoping there'd be one of me talking to danielle but there wasn't there wasn't one of you guys

01:24:07.760 either maybe take a look at it i put the link up in my um i didn't see one of evan i didn't or eva i

01:24:14.080 didn't see one of uh of um sheldon maybe didn't see one of sheldon didn't see one of marco didn't

01:24:21.920 see one of david parker yeah marco i can believe depends if you're in front of their their photographers

01:24:29.920 at the right moment as well they were very uh very um or if they're selective yeah selective about it

01:24:36.160 yeah yeah awesome all right guys always great chatting with you thanks a lot man okay have a

01:24:41.520 a little chat soon

01:25:04.480 you

The Critical Compass Podcast - November 12, 2024

2024 Alberta United Conservative Party AGM Recap Rundown w⧸Marty Belanger (martyupnorth)

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