The Critical Compass Podcast - Bruce Pardy on Political Uncertainty, Blind Justice, & How an Independent Alberta Could Save Canada

00:00:00.000 Except there's a lot of attempts that I have seen in trying to tell people, you know, don't worry, you'll be able to keep this or that, you know, this won't change, you'll be able to keep your citizenship, you still have your passport, you'll get your pension just the way it is.

00:00:17.180 Well, nobody knows any of that.

00:00:20.260 I mean, it's possible.

00:00:21.720 It's very possible.

00:00:23.000 But those things are subject to negotiation.

00:00:26.000 And it's the negotiation that we don't know how it's going to turn out.

00:00:28.980 And so I think the only honest way to respond to this is to say we are heading into a period of uncertainty.

00:00:38.180 And it's understandable that people are wary of change.

00:00:45.060 But change is what you're after.

00:00:48.080 It's the status quo that is the problem.

00:00:50.960 And if we all agree the status quo is the problem, then what we want, by definition, is something else.

00:00:56.640 Now that something else is going to be a matter of negotiation and unresolved aspirations.

00:01:05.480 And we just have to accept that.

00:01:07.060 Hi, everyone.

00:01:25.060 Welcome back to the Critical Compass.

00:01:26.720 Because today we are pleased to be joined by Mr. Bruce Party, a law professor from Ontario who has involved himself in the Alberta independence discussion.

00:01:38.180 I guess that would be the softest way to put it.

00:01:41.280 That's that's actually kind of what I wanted to start off this discussion with.

00:01:44.860 So thank you so much for joining us, Bruce.

00:01:46.740 And maybe you could give us a little bit of a kind of a introduction as to how you got interested in and involved as such a prominent voice in this topic.

00:01:57.200 Sure.

00:01:57.780 Yes.

00:01:58.020 Thanks, guys.

00:01:58.580 Thanks for having me on.

00:02:01.120 Yeah, it's a good question.

00:02:03.160 So I am from Ontario.

00:02:05.860 I've been to Alberta lots of times, but I've never actually lived there.

00:02:09.640 And so one might think, well, you know, well, what?

00:02:13.120 Why am I delving into this question?

00:02:16.840 And the answer, I think, is in part that I'm a Canadian, of course, and this country is in big trouble.

00:02:28.500 And I mean, that's been obvious for a while, but it's never been more obvious than during COVID, I think.

00:02:34.040 COVID revealed an awful lot of things about how the country actually works.

00:02:38.280 Those things are not all new, unfortunately, but, you know, the curtain was pulled back on them.

00:02:45.140 And it seems to me that the country is in such bad shape that, in a sense, the only real way to fix it now is to cause a existential political earthquake.

00:03:00.600 And the only real opportunity to do that is Alberta.

00:03:06.940 And Alberta seems to have a critical mass of people, unlike many other areas of the country, people who understand that something is not right.

00:03:18.340 And you combine that with a set of historical grievances that Alberta has, and I think quite rightly has, you've got the table set for the potential of actually doing something that doesn't exist in many other directions.

00:03:38.700 If you look around at what the prospects are for Canada to fundamentally rethink what it has become, there really aren't any other good choices at the moment.

00:03:50.920 So my inclination is to try to encourage Albertans to seize the moment that they have and to save themselves, first of all.

00:04:01.640 I mean, they don't have a responsibility to save Canada, I don't think, but they might do so by saving themselves.

00:04:08.840 And I've also started saying this as well, which is save yourself, save Canada.

00:04:13.820 And for that matter, who knows, you might end up saving Western civilization itself because Western civilization is not in great shape right now.

00:04:22.760 And so, you know, you've got to seize the day.

00:04:28.660 Alberta has a moment, and I'm hoping that enough Albertans will understand the path that lies before them, potentially anyway, to get on this horse and ride away.

00:04:39.800 So maybe, maybe that's a perfect point to expand on is, well, the path forward, there's like by seizing the moment, part of that is just getting a critical mass because you'll need a clear majority.

00:04:54.960 Exactly.

00:04:55.720 And that's number one, but we have groups, we've got multiple groups popping up in Alberta.

00:05:00.540 Alberta, and some will say that they know the single way that this has to be done.

00:05:07.140 Right.

00:05:07.800 And a lot of them will point to the Clarity Act, which from my understanding is a interpretation of the Supreme Court decision.

00:05:15.580 And there's some differences between both of those in the role of the federal government.

00:05:20.860 And that's getting kind of a little bit strange because if Alberta's entire grievance is that the federal government has overstepped its bounds into provincial sovereignty matters, then is defaulting on the Clarity Act.

00:05:40.980 Like, is that, like, is that not just, again, reasserting the federal government's power as a parent in this relationship rather than equals in Confederacy?

00:05:53.340 So is the Clarity Act, is that the only way, like, for Alberta to achieve independence, what does that actually look like?

00:06:03.780 And what are the other options if this one way does not actually come to fruition?

00:06:09.380 Right.

00:06:10.760 Oh, James, I thought you put that very well.

00:06:12.780 That's exactly what the Clarity Act is.

00:06:15.180 It's a federal interpretation of the Supreme Court of Canada decision from 1998.

00:06:20.900 And so it's not irrelevant, but it's also not the whole story.

00:06:25.560 And it is, in fact, exactly, again, as you described, it's the federal version of things.

00:06:33.280 And so in that sense, it could be the federal starting point for negotiations.

00:06:39.400 But let's just go back a step to the Supreme Court decision itself.

00:06:43.580 The Supreme Court decision doesn't actually say all that much.

00:06:47.060 It says if a province passes a referendum on a clear question and a clear majority of people support it, then that province then has a mandate to negotiate its separation from the country.

00:07:00.820 And the federal government and the rest of the country has a responsibility to enter into political negotiations to that end.

00:07:10.660 OK, so neither neither side has a unilateral right to declare anything, to do anything.

00:07:18.200 But it is also a political negotiation and not a legal one in the sense that the courts have said, well, the Supreme Court has said, you know, after at that stage, you know, we're out.

00:07:28.420 So it is it is a purely political negotiation.

00:07:31.520 And so you would expect both sides in that kind of a process to have a starting position.

00:07:36.380 And I think the Clarity Act is probably a good place for the federal government to say that's that's our position.

00:07:44.540 Now, that doesn't mean that position prevails.

00:07:47.980 That means that that's what they're saying.

00:07:50.140 Now, Alberta might say something different, in which case now you have a back and forth and negotiation.

00:07:54.860 And the thing is, what happens after that?

00:07:59.080 Nobody knows because we've never been here before.

00:08:03.400 And the Supreme Court has only said those very few things.

00:08:07.680 And so after that stage, we are into undiscovered country.

00:08:11.740 And and and people who suggest that, you know, it's got it's got it's going to it's going to definitely be that way or definitely be this way.

00:08:18.500 They're making your best guess like everybody else.

00:08:22.980 So you have to you have to tolerate some uncertainty in this territory once you get past that threshold.

00:08:30.540 So that's that's a really good point, Bruce, that that term tolerating uncertainty, which is, I think, a thing that both people who are in favor and against Alberta independence have a hard time rationalizing, intellectualizing.

00:08:44.000 Is there a are there a couple of like major, you know, uncertainties that you hear a lot that you could maybe that a person could use if they were trying to, you know, say, convince their friend or family member about, you know, how it actually like things would actually be OK?

00:08:59.400 Well, so sometimes I say this, I say, look, imagine if at the time of the American Revolution, Americans who were generally in favor of the idea insisted upon knowing exactly what was going to happen afterwards and what kind of country America would become.

00:09:18.280 Like, so lay it out for me exactly what kind of thing is this going to be?

00:09:22.200 Well, of course, if anybody had tried to tell them, they would have told them something that might not have turned out to be true, because who who who would have known?

00:09:32.140 That that project would have turned out the way that it has.

00:09:34.540 And and so certainly is just something that that you have uncertainty is something that they just have to accept.

00:09:41.840 There's a lot been a lot of attempts that I have seen in trying to tell people, you know, don't worry, you know, you'll be able to keep this or that.

00:09:51.660 You know, this won't change. You'll be able to keep your citizenship.

00:09:55.000 You still have your passport to get your pension just the way it is.

00:09:58.880 Well, nobody knows any of that.

00:10:01.280 I mean, it's possible. It's very possible.

00:10:04.720 But those things are subject to negotiation.

00:10:07.780 And it's the negotiation that we don't know how it's going to turn out.

00:10:12.260 And so I think the only honest way to respond to this is say we are we are heading into a period of uncertainty.

00:10:20.140 And it's it's understandable that people are wary of change.

00:10:28.700 But change is what you're after.

00:10:31.280 It's the status quo that is the problem.

00:10:34.140 And if we all agree the status quo is the problem, then what we want, by definition, is something else.

00:10:40.900 Now that something else is going to be a matter of of negotiation and and and unresolved aspirations.

00:10:49.340 And we just had to accept that.

00:10:51.680 So it seems like almost there's a balance of we've got to paint a positive vision vision for the future that includes reimagining what a new Alberta would look like, because we can't repeat a broken system because we'll just end up with another broken system.

00:11:09.060 But we can't be stuck in minutia.

00:11:11.920 Minutia, we can't be you can't have so many cooks in the kitchen trying to craft the exact plan that is subject to negotiations.

00:11:19.920 So then the question is, like, what is what is what is a balance that is honest and also will help convince people?

00:11:27.780 Because sometimes honesty can feel defeatist to be like, well, we don't know what will happen.

00:11:33.160 That that may not convince everybody, but I feel like you can't promise things that can't be promised.

00:11:40.240 And you see that, yeah, with the pensions, you see that with citizenship, you see that with the aboriginal rights side and the treaties, which I feel like maybe that's a point we should touch on is you've said some more spicy things on that front.

00:11:57.760 But they're not really spicy if you if we're talking about the fundamental layer of like, well, what what like what does it mean to have aboriginal rights?

00:12:09.260 Like what are special rights and what would that mean in the context of a new Alberta?

00:12:15.140 Like what what which how should we be thinking about this particular problem?

00:12:20.960 Right.

00:12:21.760 Right.

00:12:22.240 So let me back up one step again and to say this, many Albertans are saying and and more power to them.

00:12:30.400 I mean, thank God they are.

00:12:32.160 More people are saying that they want to live in a free country.

00:12:36.840 Because Canada does not seem to be that way very much anymore.

00:12:40.960 And that's great.

00:12:42.180 But then that raises the question, well, what do you mean?

00:12:45.540 What is a free country?

00:12:46.880 What do you mean by that?

00:12:47.700 Do you just mean you want to be free from Ottawa or do you actually want to be free?

00:12:54.360 And if it's the latter, then all right, let's talk about what a free country is.

00:12:59.080 And for my money, one of the features of a free country is a system of justice, a legal system that is blind.

00:13:08.160 You know, you know, you know, the statues of Lady Justice wearing a blindfold, right?

00:13:12.960 Blind justice means that the law doesn't care who you are in the sense that it applies rules and rights and freedoms in the same way, regardless of your identity.

00:13:26.600 It's one of for my money.

00:13:27.820 It's one of the features of a free country and actually free country.

00:13:31.140 And so if the aspiration is to make Alberta into a free country, then nobody can have different rights than anybody else.

00:13:41.160 And that includes Aboriginal peoples.

00:13:43.620 If you have a legal system that distinguishes between people on the basis of their lineage, on the basis of their genes, on the basis of their parents, on the basis of their culture, on the basis of their identity, then you do not have a system of blind justice.

00:14:00.120 And in a newly constituted free country, I think one of the very first principles ought to be equal protection of the law.

00:14:09.960 It's an idea that's actually in the U.S. Constitution.

00:14:13.460 There's a version of it also in the Canadian Charter, but it has an exception to it.

00:14:18.560 And over time, the Supreme Court of Canada has made the exception into the rule.

00:14:22.400 So we do not have that in Canada right now, the idea of equal protection or equal treatment.

00:14:27.000 But a new Alberta, I would like to hope that that would be one of the very first features of this newly independent and free country.

00:14:36.860 Yeah, that's, and that's, you know, we've talked about that before about you, you know, how it feels like you, you approach these sort of issues with that, this notion of first principles.

00:14:50.880 You know, you're taking a principled stance and it's not colored by history or circumstance or, you know, because so many of those subjectivities can add up and kind of distort, you know, an otherwise, you know, firm concept.

00:15:06.240 So I guess to follow up with that, you had recently been in a debate with Jeff Rath and we know Jeff and, you know, we appreciate his gumption for Alberta independence and, you know, he's doing some good things.

00:15:23.120 But when watching that debate, something became very clear in that he didn't, he didn't really approach your argument as charitably as, as I would have liked.

00:15:33.760 And he, he was, he repeated a line several times, if you recall, where he said that essentially he tried to boil down your argument into you wanting to remove the rights of 300,000 Albertans, obviously the, the indigenous population in Alberta.

00:15:48.940 Um, obviously I don't think you mean that, uh, can you, can you be, cause I don't think you were given the opportunity to really expand on that.

00:15:57.020 Can you sort of explain Jeff's main, main problem with this, with this point was that he believed it to be a non-starter as far as Alberta independence goes.

00:16:07.300 So do you think it's a non-starter or do you think that there's a way around this?

00:16:13.840 Right. Okay. So those are two very different questions. So let me do the first one first.

00:16:17.560 Yeah. Thanks.

00:16:18.680 Right. So, so am I trying to remove the rights of 300,000 people?

00:16:26.320 The answer is, it depends what you mean.

00:16:28.120 If you mean, would I like to see removing the special status of 300,000 people, then the answer is yes.

00:16:40.300 But that doesn't mean removing the rights of those people.

00:16:43.220 The, the, the point is that the, the, the rights held by those people have got to be the same as for everybody else.

00:16:51.280 We're not taking those rights away. Everybody must be treated the same way in the law.

00:16:57.500 And to that end, you're equalizing.

00:16:59.280 You're equalizing. And so, and to that end, what I've suggested as a transitional measure is to take reserve lands in Alberta and to, so just a clarification at the moment,

00:17:12.420 indigenous people who belong to, uh, bands who have reserves do not own plots on reserves.

00:17:23.560 They do not own, they do not have title to that land. It's a group, right. It's a group possession.

00:17:30.140 So what I've suggested is you take those reserve lands and you, you make them into lots and you give title to those lots, to individual indigenous people.

00:17:39.420 So that they can do with that land, what everybody else can do with their land, which is to improve it or sell it or lease it or bequeath it, mortgage it, whatever they want, because that's what everybody else gets to do.

00:17:54.640 At the moment in individual indigenous people are subject to the tyranny of the group and subject to the tyranny of the group's leaders.

00:18:02.820 You're, you're, you're, you're caught, you're stuck within the concept of the group, right. You cannot make decisions for yourself.

00:18:10.320 Now you can leave the reserve and go and live in the city and do what everybody else can do.

00:18:14.460 The fact of the matter is that off reserve, individual indigenous people have the same rights as everybody else in Canada.

00:18:22.140 And that's the way it ought to be, but it ought to be that way everywhere.

00:18:25.100 So that, that's my answer to that 300,000 people question.

00:18:30.460 It's, it's not quite the way it was framed, but there is some truth to it in the sense that it is, it is trying to make, put everybody on the same level and have them being treated the same way.

00:18:44.380 There's a, there's a saying, I think comes from Thomas Sowell.

00:18:47.320 He said, when you're used to special treatment, equal treatment, seems like discrimination.

00:19:00.020 And what I'm suggesting is to get rid of the discrimination, to get rid of the practice of seeing people in different ways.

00:19:07.000 In other words, as far as the law is concerned, there should be no such thing as different peoples.

00:19:14.360 The law should simply apply to people. 0.89

00:19:18.460 Now, to your second question about, you know, how practical this is in a political sense.

00:19:25.380 Well, you know, you guys might know better than me because I'm not on the ground in Alberta.

00:19:29.740 Now, on the other hand, I've been in contact with a lot of Albertans.

00:19:33.440 People have communicated with me in various ways.

00:19:35.360 And an awful lot of people have said, yes, we agree with the aboriginal point. 0.96

00:19:42.400 This has got to finish now.

00:19:44.360 This is a bad system.

00:19:45.920 It was a bad system from the beginning.

00:19:47.580 And look at the results.

00:19:49.240 The results are terrible.

00:19:51.700 They do, they do not help the people that are pretending to help.

00:19:55.740 So why would you want to retain it?

00:19:58.060 So both in principle and in effect, where we have it is a terrible idea.

00:20:06.040 And so if we stick to the idea that Alberta wants to be a free country, then to me, it's kind of a no-brainer.

00:20:12.760 That almost circles back to this idea of, well, are we looking at the collective or are we looking at, like, empowering individuals?

00:20:24.580 Right.

00:20:24.720 And then with empowering individuals comes a certain amount of personal responsibility.

00:20:29.960 And I've been a little bit skeptical.

00:20:32.560 I try to keep things in reality when looking at Alberta moving towards independence because we still have very left progressive cities.

00:20:45.180 We've got still, the NDP is still, still thriving in these writings.

00:20:52.640 And even just talking with friends and family, there are a lot that see kind of DEI initiatives, these, the redistribution to achieve equality about outcome or equity.

00:21:05.940 They see that as the ultimate good and we must organize society in a way that redistributes to take care of the people who have less.

00:21:18.420 And I feel like that mirrors, you see this on the, like, in the indigenous side, but you also see this in any time anything's made to try to address a DEI policy or saying, like, well, we need single-sex bathrooms.

00:21:34.260 They're like, well, you're removing the rights of trans peoples. 0.97

00:21:37.720 They're like, well, is that a right?

00:21:39.300 And then you get into these same kind of roadblocks of, like, having to actually try to redefine what a right is.

00:21:47.560 But for the people that support these things, this is a big shift in thinking.

00:21:54.780 So if the Alberta independence movement is going to get a clear majority, there's a lot of people in the middle.

00:22:02.480 And you will also need people on the left to drastically rethink this whole collectivist-based framework that we have.

00:22:14.700 Because it seems like this didn't emerge out of nowhere.

00:22:17.900 This feels like it's more or less in the fabric of Canada and still in the fabric of Alberta.

00:22:24.180 Even though Alberta has mirrored a little bit more of the spirit of what America was built on, it's still highly progressive.

00:22:34.080 Yes.

00:22:35.080 Yes.

00:22:35.900 Very well put, I think.

00:22:37.100 So we could frame this question, the question of Alberta independence, in exactly that way.

00:22:45.360 We could say this is a contest between individualism and collectivism.

00:22:50.640 Do you want a government that protects the individual?

00:22:53.940 Or do you want a government that protects collectives, groups?

00:22:57.000 And because the Canada we are in right now is more and more trending to the groups.

00:23:04.160 And that's one of the big problems with it.

00:23:07.060 It's one of the reasons why Alberta is in the position of saying, this is not working, people.

00:23:12.900 This is a bad scene.

00:23:15.180 And what a future Alberta ought to look like in terms of its government and how it works and what its policies are can be discerned from that contest.

00:23:28.180 So if you create a new Alberta, and the Alberta is, again, a free one.

00:23:34.080 And by a free one, I mean it protects the ability of individuals to decide their own affairs.

00:23:40.180 If it's based upon the idea of individual autonomy, the ability of you to make your own decisions about your own life, your own career, your own money, your own property, your own family, your own children.

00:23:51.560 If that's the kind of Alberta we mean, then we can tell the kinds of things that have to go by whether they are consistent with that vision or whether or not they belong to the collectivist thinking that you refer to.

00:24:03.720 So here's a big one for a lot of Albertans, I think, which is single-payer public health care.

00:24:11.880 Single-payer public health care is a collectivist program.

00:24:15.740 It's a socialized program of health care.

00:24:19.220 If Albertans mean it about being a new and free country, single-payer public health care has to go because it is inconsistent with the vision.

00:24:31.960 Now, a lot of Albertans think, well, but I want to keep my health care because they're scared to wander into the unknown of what a future different health care system might be.

00:24:43.040 I'm sorry.

00:24:44.240 The one that you have does not match the aspirations you're identifying.

00:24:49.620 So, again, you have to walk into the unknown and trust that the principle upon which your new country is based will provide, will provide for health care, will provide for needs of all kinds.

00:25:06.320 You know, food and housing, everything that's important is provided by a free market in a country where people have independent rights.

00:25:15.240 That's the way it works, and it is a centralized, planned country that is determined to dictate the outcomes on all those things first, right?

00:25:27.420 So, one of the challenges is to get Albertans to get out of the mindset of how government's supposed to work.

00:25:34.160 Government is not supposed to plan ahead and provide for things.

00:25:39.260 It's supposed to back off, get its hands off the market, and let people figure things out for themselves.

00:25:44.840 And that is, from what I can tell, is an idea that lies deep in the heart of a lot of Albertans.

00:25:52.220 Self-sufficiency, independence, your own decisions, by your own hands.

00:25:57.960 And if there are enough of those people, then you've got a shot.

00:26:00.800 Otherwise, if we're stuck on the central planning, you know, collectivist thinking, then this is going to go nowhere.

00:26:07.260 Yeah, and that's one of the major hurdles that this movement is going to face because there's just so much, you know, whatever industry you talk about, if you talk about healthcare, you talk about unions, you talk about, you know, the fact that we have a huge bloated public sector in many different fields.

00:26:26.640 You know, you're going to face a lot of opposition from that because there's just so, so much of our everyday is just based on the government dole right now that it's pretty rough.

00:26:37.240 I mean, it's the, you're going to have, like, we're going to have to balance this notion of a free independent society with, you know, but things might be tough for a while.

00:26:47.960 Well, and that, I wanted to just, I highlighted this section here, and we'll link this in all the notes here, but your Alberta Declaration of Independence, amazing read.

00:27:00.360 I highlighted this one section because it's so, it's so poignant, I find, kind of near the bottom third here.

00:27:07.480 You say, we find ourselves members of a beleaguered, corrupted, manipulated society.

00:27:13.280 Vested interests and sacred cows make meaningful reform impossible.

00:27:16.380 Canada is a country in retreat, more interested in redistributing wealth than in producing it, more resolved to administer than to build, and more prone to languish than to strive.

00:27:26.000 Its people have traded freedom for the appearance of safety and competition for the solidarity of victimhood.

00:27:31.480 Its culture pushes risk and rewards conformity.

00:27:34.640 Sorry, its culture punishes risk and rewards conformity.

00:27:37.240 Its elites collaborate with foreign powers and global institutions.

00:27:40.420 They sacrifice the interests of the people to plunder the country of what remains of its prosperity. 0.56

00:27:45.160 For a privileged class of public servants, Canada has become a grift.

00:27:49.840 And I suppose my question then, that's 100% nail it.

00:27:55.560 But what do you think, all that being true, do you anticipate any sort of, maybe a, I don't know the word I'm looking for, but sort of a harsh response from the federal government?

00:28:11.400 Say that a referendum does go through, and we do vote for independence.

00:28:15.580 There's a lot at stake there for the feds.

00:28:17.660 Do you, have you thought about what their response might be?

00:28:20.660 Sure.

00:28:22.440 Yeah, so this goes back to the uncertainty point, right?

00:28:25.460 So, even those things that seem to be set out, and there are not very many of them.

00:28:30.220 We talked about them earlier from the Supreme Court.

00:28:33.740 But even those things.

00:28:35.840 So, here's the scenario.

00:28:38.300 You have confederation.

00:28:39.520 And, in large part, Alberta is the cow of confederation.

00:28:49.540 Now, do we really think that the federal government, if Alberta, you know, holds a referendum, and it passes with a clear majority, the federal government's just going to say, oh, well, you ticked all the boxes.

00:29:02.200 Way to go then.

00:29:02.980 Goodbye.

00:29:03.940 Yeah, see you.

00:29:04.500 That's not going to be the way it happens, because the viability of the whole project is now in question.

00:29:10.860 So, we can expect the federal government to do everything in its power and beyond to prevent this from happening.

00:29:19.620 Let's put this another way.

00:29:21.220 That Supreme Court decision that everybody keeps referring to is a Supreme Court decision about Quebec.

00:29:28.040 Now, Quebec, as we all know, is the favorite child of confederation.

00:29:31.460 What's to prevent the federal government, or for that matter, the Supreme Court, from figuring out a way to change the goalposts?

00:29:41.360 Like, change the rules.

00:29:42.340 Like, oh, well, but we can't have that with respect to Alberta.

00:29:45.620 Here are the things that you have to plug before you can get into the position of declaring yourself to be independent.

00:29:52.460 Like, and we don't know what that's going to be.

00:29:55.560 The point is that people have to be aware that what they're entering into is a nothing less than a political revolution.

00:30:04.580 It's a revolution.

00:30:05.980 It's not an armed revolution.

00:30:07.500 Hopefully, there'll be no violence involved.

00:30:08.760 But it is a political revolution.

00:30:12.140 And it is going to be dangerous and risky and a challenge, an existential challenge, to the powers that be that you're trying to get away from.

00:30:21.860 They're not going to just let it happen.

00:30:24.140 So, this is going to take some courage.

00:30:26.780 It's going to take some tolerance of not knowing what's going to happen in the future.

00:30:31.780 It's going to require people to take a step into the dangerous unknown because it's necessary.

00:30:39.480 Because the only alternative is the stuck status quo.

00:30:45.540 And we're seeing this right now.

00:30:48.000 Like, some people in the movement, they view it kind of as a zero-sum game of, like, we've got our group and other groups.

00:30:56.580 They don't have our best interest.

00:30:57.920 They will hurt the movement.

00:30:59.280 And they said, like, this is the way forward and you've got to support our group.

00:31:03.180 Or we saw this with the demonization of the Alberta Republicans, which is both a good name and a terrible name because it accurately describes a party that wants Alberta to be a constitutional republic.

00:31:20.740 It's a terrible name because it reflects how many on the left and the right don't understand what a republic is and they have this adverse immune system reaction to anything that reflects the United States.

00:31:35.720 And in this case, I feel like part of the Alberta Prosperity Project feels that we just need a clear citizen-led grassroots initiative and we need to go through Alberta's referendum process.

00:31:53.760 And then that will be passed and then we'll enter into negotiations if there's a clear majority.

00:31:59.760 I believe the Alberta Republicans were saying, well, who are we trusting to negotiate with us?

00:32:07.920 And also, is that referendum binding?

00:32:10.160 And they were saying, well, even like the Alberta government right now could pass legislation issuing a binding referendum.

00:32:21.500 It doesn't just need to be like that citizen-led initiative if there is a clear support.

00:32:27.520 So I guess like if there's enough support, there are multiple avenues through.

00:32:35.320 But in any case, like right now, we are putting a lot of trust into a provincial government, the UCP, who has expanded the public sector, who has maybe hasn't fully proved that their mindset is in a fully independent Alberta.

00:32:55.500 And I was curious that like if a few independence minded, like if there's a few MLAs that are fully independent or pushing hard for independence, does that help build some accountability if it is a like if it is the UCP doing the negotiation?

00:33:20.880 So I feel like it's less of a zero-sum game of either it's this one group or another group.

00:33:27.100 And I'm thinking like, can these coexist?

00:33:30.820 And what does that look like?

00:33:32.400 Or what kind of pressure or feedback or criticism should we be putting on the UCP right now, considering that they are the ones that are going to be carrying us through the negotiation process?

00:33:45.880 So it gets a little complicated.

00:33:49.060 Oh, it's complicated and it's going to be messy.

00:33:53.160 I mean, you're asking me a question about Alberta politics.

00:33:56.760 And I'm not really qualified to answer that question.

00:33:59.840 There are a lot of people who know better than me.

00:34:01.520 So I don't know.

00:34:02.480 But I do know it's going to be messy.

00:34:04.700 But let's also say this.

00:34:08.940 Sometimes this question is, sometimes the presumption is that the main conflict that you have in this enterprise is the federal government.

00:34:22.660 But actually, that comes later.

00:34:25.060 Your main contest right now is inside Alberta.

00:34:29.400 And that's reflected by your question.

00:34:31.000 The main test, the main contest, the main task right now is inside Alberta to try to get your own people or enough of them on the same page, to get enough political actors with power on the same page.

00:34:45.580 And in principle, the way to get the political actors to get with the program, so to speak, is to demonstrate to those actors that the parade is going in a certain way.

00:35:01.420 It's going to go there.

00:35:02.400 And it is in their interest to be at the front of the parade, right?

00:35:09.120 I'm not sure that's clear yet to them.

00:35:11.880 And that might be why some of them are trying to walk a tightrope between two things.

00:35:18.540 And yes, it's going to be very contentious about who it is that gets to do the negotiating on the part of Alberta, assuming a referendum passed.

00:35:26.880 Because for sure, I mean, absolutely, that is going to determine the kind of deal that you get.

00:35:33.280 And so this is going to be messy.

00:35:35.460 And this is part of the inevitable process of separating and becoming independent.

00:35:43.200 There's no other way around it.

00:35:44.380 Albertans have to deal with Albertans to try and figure this out and to try and gather up enough of a critical mass of people, like hopefully, like a clear, clear majority, not 51%, but more.

00:35:59.820 I would love to see more than that to demonstrate to the political powers that be that if they're interested in their own futures, everybody's interested in their own future.

00:36:10.160 I mean, I don't diss them for that.

00:36:11.620 Everybody acts in their own self-interest, ultimately, and that's part of the future of a free country, right?

00:36:17.760 But in acting in their own self-interest, the political powers that be have to see that their own interests lie in taking on this cause.

00:36:27.340 And if they don't, then, you know, who knows what happens after that?

00:36:33.180 What you mentioned of, you know, some political actors right now walking a tightrope, leads me to wonder your opinion on, do you have a read on Danielle Smith?

00:36:48.280 Like, do you, did, it seems like from day to day, you know, it's, it's hard to tell, you know, some days it feels like she's all in, she's, you know, easing the restrictions on getting citizen-led initiatives through and heard in the house or, or, you know, and then some days it feels like she's pulling back, you know, with Alberta and United Canada type of speech.

00:37:07.520 And then just today, you know, she announces the creation of a, of a Alberta, uh, provincial police force, which has long been talked about and kind of been sleptwalked for a while.

00:37:16.620 Do you get kind of a sense of like where her intentions kind of lie?

00:37:21.220 I, I, I don't, I mean, I know Danielle a little bit.

00:37:24.520 I really liked her.

00:37:25.460 I did a number of interviews with her when she had her, her, her radio show.

00:37:30.960 And then she had a podcast.

00:37:32.800 I think she's a terrific person.

00:37:34.780 I don't exactly know where she thinks she's trying to go.

00:37:37.780 And maybe she doesn't know either.

00:37:39.140 Maybe, maybe trying to, to, to, to, to, to see how things unfold, to try and give it an opportunity without endorsing it entirely.

00:37:50.100 I'm not, I'm not about this Alberta next project.

00:37:54.400 I, I, I don't think it's necessary.

00:37:58.560 I mean, surely Albertans already know enough to know that Canada is not going to be fixed.

00:38:05.020 And by the way, the, the demand letter that she sent to Kearney a little while ago with nine, nine policy demands, you know, get rid of this, get rid of, get rid of the tanker ban, get rid of single use plastics and the emissions cap and, you know, all those things.

00:38:22.440 Um,

00:38:24.400 Those are undoubtedly policy problems that are irksome to Alberta.

00:38:29.060 No question about that.

00:38:30.060 But, but the problem is not a policy problem.

00:38:33.840 I mean, in my books, the worst thing that could happen is that those policy demands would be met.

00:38:42.300 Yeah.

00:38:43.240 Yeah.

00:38:43.440 No, I don't think there's much chance of that, but let's just say hypothetically, let's say those policy demands were met and you've got a pipeline and you got rid of the emissions cap and you got rid of the tanker ban.

00:38:55.100 What have you done?

00:38:57.480 Well, you've, you've, you've, you've, you've fixed in a very short term, temporary moment in time way, a number of policy irritants.

00:39:07.080 You've done nothing to change the structure of the country.

00:39:10.740 You've done nothing to change the constitutional relationship.

00:39:13.420 You've done nothing to change the nature of confederation.

00:39:16.140 And those policy changes can be changed back like that.

00:39:20.800 It's, it's a, it's a moment.

00:39:23.500 Well, yeah.

00:39:24.280 And you've, no, it doesn't.

00:39:26.100 And you've, you've also poured some cold water on the, on the independence movement, you know?

00:39:29.920 So in one sense, it could be, yeah, it could be the smartest thing that the federal government could do, but I don't think that they're smart enough to necessarily do it.

00:39:37.380 I agree with you, but that's exactly why I think it's the worst thing that could happen.

00:39:41.020 It would take the air out of the tires of the whole, of the whole cause.

00:39:44.760 Yeah.

00:39:46.500 So maybe there's also like one other thing of what happens if a referendum push fails?

00:39:54.480 It feels like this time's a little bit different than like, we've seen the, the Wexit pop up.

00:40:01.260 And I feel like after the last federal election, the sentiment was completely different.

00:40:06.740 Like the amount of just the sheer volume of discussion right now, like on Alberta independence is, is quite, quite amazing.

00:40:18.320 And it feels like this is not momentum that is like the other times before.

00:40:24.960 So for trying to point back to like, Oh, Alberta did it before.

00:40:27.720 And like, it went nowhere.

00:40:28.920 And you're trying to use that as an excuse that like, try to prove that it's not going to be any different this time.

00:40:34.840 I feel like is a short sighted, but even, I feel like even if a referendum fails, the amount of conversation, I wonder if that can shake up enough people in the other provinces.

00:40:49.080 Cause now you're talking about like Saskatchewan, there's like some people wanting like, but how big is a independence movement in Saskatchewan?

00:40:58.700 Are they not in the same kind of position as Alberta to have that same kind of momentum?

00:41:04.260 Um, will it just get back to status quo if this settles down or do you feel like a failed referendum is enough to shake, shake the tree?

00:41:14.660 No, I mean, Saskatchewan is another possibility.

00:41:18.300 I mean, if Alberta did pass a referendum and resolve to leave, then I wouldn't be surprised if Saskatchewan said, well, don't leave us behind.

00:41:26.800 We're coming to, you know, that would be great.

00:41:29.680 But if a referendum in Alberta fails.

00:41:35.560 Then you shouldn't expect any results from that.

00:41:40.280 I mean, the people, people who are in control are going to take that as an indication that everything is fine.

00:41:48.800 Just the way we said, everything is fine.

00:41:51.640 The people of Alberta said, no, we want to stay.

00:41:54.100 We're going to run the country the way it's always been run, the way it's being run right now.

00:41:59.340 And all those people who are in power and, you know, the Laurentians in Ontario and Quebec are going to take that as an indication that nothing needs to change.

00:42:07.980 Nothing needs to change.

00:42:10.280 So you only got one shot at this.

00:42:13.300 And so don't blow it.

00:42:18.480 There's no second prize here.

00:42:20.840 If you lose the referendum, the cause is lost.

00:42:24.520 And the prospects for fundamentally reforming Canada as a country are virtually nonexistent, which is the whole point in the first place.

00:42:37.420 Right?

00:42:37.520 So sometimes people say to me, well, you know, you've got to admit that the chances of this actually happening are very, very small.

00:42:46.600 That's their perspective.

00:42:48.420 And my response to that is, look, I don't really know what the chances are.

00:42:51.940 But whatever the chances are, it's not zero.

00:42:58.160 And can you think of another better possibility for reforming the country?

00:43:03.300 And the answer is always no.

00:43:07.760 So it doesn't matter if it's likely or not likely.

00:43:10.920 It doesn't matter what the chances are, if it's better or worse than 50-50.

00:43:15.020 I don't know what the number is.

00:43:16.300 I don't care what the number is.

00:43:18.180 The fact of the matter is, whatever the chances are, it's the best chance going.

00:43:23.040 Well, chances are it's going to change over time because we know demographic changes will also influence the ability to get a clear majority.

00:43:35.240 Especially, like, we're talking about, like, well, part of the profile of the average person in Edmonton is, like, you've got a lot of public sector workers.

00:43:46.000 Or you've got people reliant on handouts that feel like voting against their own job or against their own benefits is not in their own best interest.

00:44:00.060 Therefore, Alberta independence would never be something they would support.

00:44:05.520 So if not in the next year or so, think of another five years of population shifts in Alberta.

00:44:12.980 Alberta, it's a clear majority is even less likely.

00:44:17.040 Whatever the chances are now, it's going to be less likely.

00:44:20.160 So this is kind of a unique, a very unique time coming off of, like, very real tyranny that we saw on all levels of government through COVID.

00:44:33.460 And then we saw the disappointment and the sheer difference between, like, Western voting habits in the federal election and the East.

00:44:43.080 So we've also demonstrated kind of how this system does not reflect the interests of the people that it's supposed to be representing.

00:44:52.120 So this is a very unique time.

00:44:56.640 Yes.

00:44:57.240 Yes.

00:44:57.520 There's no second chance, you know, certainly in my lifetime, probably in your guys' lifetimes.

00:45:06.420 The coming together of events is unique.

00:45:12.820 And it does give you this moment.

00:45:14.560 And it's, I'd be very surprised if it came together this way again.

00:45:24.080 There's a guy that we're going to interview next week.

00:45:26.540 I don't know if you've heard of him.

00:45:27.660 His name is Daniel Tyree.

00:45:29.380 He's a former PPC political scientist.

00:45:33.960 Yeah, yeah.

00:45:34.600 So he's a big proponent of remigration. 0.99

00:45:38.120 I was, when you were saying about, you know, how you don't necessarily see a route to any other outcome, what if there was a, I don't anticipate this happening, but can you see a focus at a federal level of satisfying people's desire for remigration, getting rid of the bad term?

00:46:01.000 But, you know, enforcing the temporary foreign worker, you know, end of the visas and things like this, if they make a push for this, can you see that as a means by which that might also cool some of these sentiments?

00:46:15.340 Do you anticipate that as a response by the federal government?

00:46:19.820 Well, first of all, no, I don't think they would do that.

00:46:22.160 But let's assume that they did.

00:46:24.060 The sake of the argument.

00:46:25.140 I don't see how that solves very many of Alberta's complaints. 0.99

00:46:38.980 I mean, it would be a good thing.

00:46:44.240 It would solve some of the policy problems that we're running into, like housing costs and so on.

00:46:50.900 Fine.

00:46:51.260 I mean, I have no objection to them enforcing the law in this area.

00:46:56.560 But I don't see that it changes anything else fundamentally.

00:47:00.280 Number one, again, it's simply a policy change.

00:47:03.480 And number two, I mean, think of all the things that are wrong.

00:47:09.660 It's not just failure to enforce those provisions.

00:47:14.420 It's, if you like, built into the Constitution.

00:47:20.880 Or even if you, like I've suggested, this is also built into a national character.

00:47:27.700 Like, I like to go back to the founding of the United States and what happened to Canada at that time.

00:47:34.680 And this is largely, you know, Eastern and Central Canada, of course, because that's what Canada was at the time.

00:47:39.080 But if you imagine this in terms of the Americans' foundational story, if you like, they wanted to get out from under the thumb of the king.

00:47:50.180 They wanted to be free because they were being mistreated.

00:47:53.820 And they invited the Canadians, as they then were, to join them, to become a continental free country.

00:48:03.740 And the Canadians said no.

00:48:06.420 The Canadians at the time wanted to be subjects of the king.

00:48:11.080 They're the loyalists.

00:48:13.540 So the foundational story for America is liberty.

00:48:17.320 The foundational story for Canada is deference to authority.

00:48:25.040 And a lot of the country carries that around still.

00:48:28.940 In order to change the country, you almost have to change the story.

00:48:35.420 Yeah.

00:48:36.040 The Canadian story is not liberty.

00:48:39.300 The Canadian story is, and this is the way my energy probe colleague, Lawrence Solomon, has put it.

00:48:46.080 The Canadian story, Confederation, essentially, is regions and provinces signing on in order to receive subsidies and grants from the federal government.

00:49:00.320 I mean, this is not people joining the country for a grand vision of a noble, you know, nation.

00:49:07.780 This is a grift.

00:49:09.980 Canada is founded as a grift.

00:49:11.800 And it is a series of grifts that continue, you know, region and province and industry and group.

00:49:19.460 And everybody's on the take.

00:49:21.980 Everywhere you look, somebody is on the take in this country.

00:49:28.640 Yeah.

00:49:28.880 And one of the few exceptions, right?

00:49:31.100 Sorry, go ahead.

00:49:31.740 One of the few exceptions are the taxpayers of Alberta who are paying in to the system of bribes.

00:49:40.060 Somebody has to pay for it.

00:49:45.320 Yeah, we've mentioned it on the show a few times where it's Canada has, well, a couple things.

00:49:51.540 You know, a lot of what is perceived by the by the world is like the notion of Canadian politeness.

00:49:57.700 A lot of that, actually, if you spend some time here, a lot of it is passive aggressiveness, passive aggression.

00:50:02.840 And, yeah, and I think the Brits call it like tall poppy syndrome, something like that.

00:50:10.600 Like, you know, no one wants to stick up above the rest.

00:50:13.300 You all got to maintain the lowest level.

00:50:15.200 Don't don't don't make any noise.

00:50:17.060 But also another thing that kind of plagues Canadian, the Canadian mindset we've we've noticed is that rather than defining ourselves and we've noticed this, you know, you've probably seen it a lot since since November last year.

00:50:30.880 Rather than making a positive vision or a positive definition of what a Canadian is, a lot of Canadians just define themselves and Canadian life, Canadianism in opposition to what it means to be an American.

00:50:45.500 It's very it's very twisted.

00:50:47.020 Yeah, yeah, 100 percent.

00:50:50.240 Right.

00:50:50.800 Right.

00:50:51.200 And, you know, you have to watch out for this in Alberta as well.

00:50:54.740 Right.

00:50:55.420 You know, back to the health care thing, just for example, there's lots of examples.

00:50:58.240 But just for one example, you think, oh, well, we know you have to do away with your single payer public health care system.

00:51:04.060 And the reaction is, oh, we don't want to be American.

00:51:07.640 Yeah.

00:51:08.120 Well, as if there's no other option.

00:51:10.080 That's right.

00:51:10.680 As if there's no other option.

00:51:11.980 And also that anything American is bad.

00:51:15.240 Right.

00:51:15.480 So.

00:51:16.000 Yeah.

00:51:17.020 You know, we need to bring some rationality to this.

00:51:23.540 Yeah.

00:51:24.080 And I feel like part of this is having better conversations with like, obviously, with those on the right.

00:51:31.160 Some are federally minded conservatives.

00:51:34.240 Others are more independent supporting.

00:51:37.820 And there are a range of ideas of how that looks.

00:51:41.440 But having better conversations, that's one.

00:51:44.040 On that, on the right, but also the conversations with like, when I'm talking with more left leaning family and friends, like that gets very tricky.

00:51:56.060 And I guess the Socratic method only goes so far when trying to break down these deeply ingrained ideas about how the world works.

00:52:06.820 Especially when it's, I feel like the longer this goes, the harder it is to change partially because you've had a shift from, you look, look back to the 50s and look at the average skill set that the average person had.

00:52:28.500 Like the average father had like some mechanical skills, some automotive, they have a little bit of knowledge in multiple areas.

00:52:37.500 So the way I feel like each individual was better powered as a check and balance on some of these systems because they had a little enough knowledge that they could call out the BS.

00:52:49.960 And as we get hyper specialized, people just, they just hand everything off to an expert.

00:52:56.740 It's like, well, I am not qualified to even have a thought about this.

00:53:01.320 I can't have an opinion.

00:53:02.540 I have to hand this to their expert.

00:53:04.780 And we're even seeing this right now in the movement of, well, we got to hand it off to this lawyer and that lawyer.

00:53:10.980 And like, they know the exact plan because they read the, this actor, that Bruce party.

00:53:15.860 Yeah.

00:53:17.100 Right.

00:53:17.980 Sure.

00:53:18.780 Yeah.

00:53:19.000 Don't listen to me.

00:53:20.140 Right.

00:53:21.200 Well, this is where, if you're, if you increase your sampling of ideas, we're going to get a better, we're going to get a little bit closer to truth.

00:53:31.040 If we're getting multiple, like consensus from independent parties, et cetera.

00:53:36.940 And I feel like some of the most valuable people are the deep generalists, those who have a bit of knowledge in multiple areas and also very deep fundamental, deep fundamental understanding of systems.

00:53:52.520 And this is where like, you get some of these engineers, you get some of these other professionals that have solved complex problems, like with multiple variables.

00:54:02.960 And they're seeing patterns that maybe some of these hyper specialized, highly credentialed people are not seeing in some of the ways.

00:54:12.740 So I feel like this also has a very, it's a very good opportunity for some of these other professionals with other skill sets to have a voice and have their input when, when talking about a vision for, for new Alberta.

00:54:27.720 Yes.

00:54:28.260 Yes.

00:54:28.820 Yes, for sure.

00:54:29.700 Absolutely.

00:54:30.080 But, but there is a cautionary tale as well.

00:54:32.960 Which is this, so part of what you're referring to quite rightly, is the emergence of a managerial state, where everything is centrally planned, it's controlled by authority somewhere else with technocratic expertise, right?

00:54:48.820 And that exists in Canada, as much as anywhere else.

00:54:52.960 They also have that in the States, it's all over the Western world.

00:54:55.700 And yes, we need generalists who have the freedom to exercise their own judgment about things.

00:55:05.840 The cautionary tale I'm referring to, though, is, is the idea that people with, you know, some knowledge of systems can come in and redo it, like reorganize.

00:55:22.240 Like, okay, so this doesn't work where we have it now.

00:55:24.740 Let's do it this way.

00:55:25.880 We'll put this here and this here and that there, and we'll have this work this other way.

00:55:29.960 Okay, okay, now you're just central planning in a different way, right?

00:55:35.260 You're still having the state fix it all.

00:55:39.440 That's the problem, right?

00:55:42.060 We have to persuade ourselves that the best way to fix this is to let it go.

00:55:46.920 Like, leave it alone.

00:55:47.940 The state has no business, the state has no business in trying to fix things so that it works.

00:55:56.940 Its job is to leave us all alone so we can fix things for ourselves.

00:56:02.500 And that's a really hard thing for people to grasp today because that's not the way it works today.

00:56:08.400 Those people who want to fix the problem, understandably, I admire their desire to fix the problem, but I don't want them to fix the problem.

00:56:16.100 I want them to go and fix their own problems and to establish – the only real problem we have to fix is to establish a constitutional order that allows people to fix their own problems and to prevent the government from fixing them for them.

00:56:33.500 Yeah.

00:56:34.320 Yeah, there's a large contingent, and this has, I'm sure, been by design over many, many generations of Canadian news media,

00:56:42.560 but there's a large contingent of the Canadian population that truthfully, honestly, in their heart, believes that the people who are in government are there because they're the best people, they're the most intelligent, they're the best of us.

00:56:58.200 Yes.

00:56:59.160 Yes.

00:57:00.260 No question.

00:57:01.060 They believe in technocratic expertise.

00:57:03.260 If you were to ask them on, you know, take a person on the sidewalk, you know, what do you think government is for?

00:57:09.820 They would be perplexed at the question, first of all, and then if you managed to get it out of them, they would say that, well, government is there to solve our problems for us, our social problems, our economic problems.

00:57:20.700 Okay.

00:57:20.860 If we keep that idea, we're toast, and this independent Alberta will not be worth having.

00:57:28.800 I mean, if Alberta does not manage to get rid of that idea, then what's the point of all this?

00:57:37.680 That's the kind of libertarian mindset we like on this channel, Bruce.

00:57:41.240 James, did you have any more big questions for Bruce?

00:57:44.160 Because I've got one quote and one question that I think will be a good one to close it off with, if you're good.

00:57:49.060 I think we actually touched on pretty much everything that I was curious about.

00:57:54.840 Okay.

00:57:55.180 Okay, sweet.

00:57:55.760 Because we've taken up enough of this gentleman's time.

00:57:57.900 So my first quote, I was thinking about this when, Bruce, when you were talking about how much of this is going to end up being a negotiation.

00:58:06.100 And it reminded me of a Chris Voss quote where he said, he's that former FBI hostage negotiator that writes like business books now, if you're familiar.

00:58:15.280 He, in his book, never split the difference.

00:58:18.100 He, the quote that stuck out to me the most was, never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn't take a better deal.

00:58:26.200 So that's, that's what I'm, that's what I've got my fingers crossed for, for us.

00:58:29.460 And then the question that I think I'd like to leave it off with, let's say that next year, Alberta has a referendum.

00:58:37.360 We have a convincing majority.

00:58:40.240 We have 60 plus percent voting for independence.

00:58:43.280 Are you moving to Alberta to help us out?

00:58:47.200 Oh boy.

00:58:48.260 Uh, yes.

00:58:50.180 Yes.

00:58:50.880 Yes.

00:58:51.260 You know, that, that, that thought has already occurred to me, but yes, I wouldn't want to miss the show.

00:58:58.060 Right on, right on.

00:58:59.400 Well, we could sure use you, man.

00:59:00.720 So, Hey, thank you so much for doing this.

00:59:03.140 I know this is, uh, you know, you, you've, you're being pulled in a lot of different directions.

00:59:07.460 Right now you're a very popular voice on this subject.

00:59:09.340 So we really do appreciate you taking the time to, to chat with us today.

00:59:14.540 Oh, thanks guys.

00:59:15.420 It's been a pleasure talking to you.

00:59:16.660 Thank you for the invitation for having me on.

00:59:18.720 Awesome.

00:59:19.100 Well, hopefully we can do it again next time you're in Alberta.

00:59:21.040 We'll, uh, we'll swing by wherever you are.

00:59:22.800 We'll, we'll say hi.

00:59:25.140 Awesome.

00:59:25.780 Thanks.

00:59:26.060 All right.

00:59:26.720 Cheers.

00:59:27.060 Thanks.

00:59:27.600 Cheers.

00:59:37.460 Cheers.

00:59:37.860 Cheers.

00:59:40.440 Cheers.

00:59:43.340 Cheers.

00:59:46.440 Cheers.

00:59:48.760 Cheers.

00:59:49.920 Cheers.

00:59:50.460 Cheers.

00:59:50.780 Cheers.

00:59:51.120 Cheers.

00:59:51.660 Cheers.

00:59:53.180 Cheers.

00:59:53.560 Cheers.

00:59:54.580 Cheers.

00:59:55.080 Cheers.

00:59:55.260 Cheers.

00:59:55.600 Cheers.

00:59:55.700 Cheers.

00:59:56.680 Cheers.

00:59:57.580 Cheers.

00:59:57.660 Cheers.

00:59:59.680 Cheers.

00:59:59.740 Cheers.

01:00:00.320 Cheers.

01:00:00.820 Cheers.

01:00:01.900 Cheers.

01:00:02.300 Cheers.

01:00:03.080 Cheers.

01:00:03.680 Cheers.

01:00:04.560 Cheers.

01:00:05.180 Cheers.

01:00:05.680 Cheers.

01:00:05.900 Cheers.

The Critical Compass Podcast - July 12, 2025

Bruce Pardy on Political Uncertainty, Blind Justice, & How an Independent Alberta Could Save Canada

Episode Stats

People

Summary

Transcript