The Critical Compass Podcast - September 20, 2026


Debate Q&A Session ｜ Bruce Pardy & Stockwell Day on Alberta Independence

Steve Cooksey on Beating Diabetes & the Medical Industry ｜ Capitalism & Morality Calgary 2026

Episode Stats


Length

48 minutes

Words per minute

156.28

Word count

7,650

Sentence count

689

People

Also mentioned:
Bruce Ralph Klein Danielle Smith Bill C-63 Brian Mulroney Karl Marx Stephen Harper Pierre Pollard Lawrence DeCore Pierre Trudeau Erin O'Toole Stockwell Stockton Grandpa Carney Devon Jason

Harmful content

Misogyny

6

sentences flagged

Toxicity

6

sentences flagged

Hate speech

8

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.320 Canada has a managerial society. It is managed from the center. It is based upon authority.
00:00:08.880 The people are directed. They're influenced. They're regulated. They're supervised. They're
00:00:14.960 controlled. They're tracked. They're surveilled. And that has been the case for a while.
00:00:18.960 Here we go again. And Alberta is the high mark in terms of people upset at 30%.
00:00:26.520 Right.
00:00:27.220 Whenever you had a country where you had the majority not wanting, it was war.
00:00:32.540 It was war. 0.90
00:00:33.760 That's what you're implying.
00:00:34.740 You are implying that Canada will not let you do this in a private way.
00:00:38.760 I'm saying in my lifetime, in my tenure, both as an MLA and as an MP, I was able to make some changes and get some things done.
00:00:47.580 Perfect?
00:00:48.220 No.
00:00:48.960 We got some things done.
00:00:50.400 It made life better.
00:00:51.960 Sockwell, I find this argument self-defeating.
00:00:54.820 If you are arguing that it shouldn't be done, they'll vote against it, and therefore they vote against it, and therefore it shouldn't be done.
00:01:02.620 Why don't you tell them why they should vote for it so we can go forward and get over 50% and then try to achieve the things we're talking about?
00:01:10.340 You agree with me about the problems in this country.
00:01:13.980 Why don't we try toβ€”
00:01:14.680 Because I don't think they should vote for it.
00:01:16.600 They're voting for confusion.
00:01:18.260 They're voting for poverty.
00:01:20.000 They're voting for all kinds of things.
00:01:24.820 Okay, so Stockton, I'm just going to be honest with you, my friend.
00:01:29.040 There's a lot directed towards you on this.
00:01:31.920 I am so shocked.
00:01:33.480 And I'm going to do my best to try and balance questions for both of you.
00:01:37.380 But as a lot of them are for you, you'll make your answer and then maybe a bit of a response to it.
00:01:44.240 All right.
00:01:45.020 Here's the first one.
00:01:46.140 What's our timeline on this?
00:01:48.780 You want to negotiate?
00:01:51.040 Yeah, I do.
00:01:53.600 But if I don't like it, I'll just unilaterally say what it's going to be.
00:01:57.420 Yeah, you've got to find a country for that one.
00:02:01.500 We'll try and keep it to about a minute or two.
00:02:03.380 Okay.
00:02:03.820 Yeah.
00:02:04.840 No filibustering, all right?
00:02:06.560 Great.
00:02:07.200 Okay, so stock.
00:02:09.320 And I'm reading the question as it's written, so it's not me asking this question.
00:02:13.060 I have heard a lot of...
00:02:13.660 Boring yourself there.
00:02:14.960 I have caveats.
00:02:16.160 I have heard a lot of scaremongering.
00:02:19.120 It will take too long.
00:02:20.560 No one will invest in Alberta.
00:02:21.880 Please provide an actual positive for Alberta, not nostalgia or patriotic, for Alberta to stay within Canada.
00:02:30.900 Yeah, it's better than going through years of negotiation where all investment would cease.
00:02:38.820 It's better to try and improve.
00:02:41.840 In many ways, Alberta right now, we've got grievances.
00:02:45.000 You've heard me say, we're the envy of the world in many ways.
00:02:49.420 we've got, please don't try and tell people who are starving that we've got the worst situation
00:02:54.900 in the world. We don't. We've got genuine grievances that we don't like. But to become
00:03:00.900 paralyzed and to see investment stop and investment leave, because we don't know what
00:03:09.840 we're doing, that's not the answer. The answer is to continue to look at ways we can improve.
00:03:15.400 and I say again, media is kind of laughing at those questions, the other questions that are
00:03:21.780 on the October vote. But you know what? The immigration question, that's no laughing matter.
00:03:27.260 And Ottawa needs to see what Albertans say about that. So you can safely and strongly,
00:03:32.720 100% of Albertans can have a strong say in that and not put anything else at risk and send a
00:03:39.620 signal. There's ways to improve. We've seen improvement over the years and we've seen stuff
00:03:44.520 that has gotten worse.
00:03:46.880 But the answer, I'm just saying,
00:03:48.700 the answer is not to stop a functioning,
00:03:53.300 albeit with problems,
00:03:55.060 a functioning entity now.
00:03:57.560 To stop it and watch a slow suffocation happen
00:04:01.660 or keep going with what we've got.
00:04:04.220 Keep showing the rest of Canada
00:04:05.660 how things like smart regulation,
00:04:08.260 low taxes, respecting parents,
00:04:11.620 all of the stuff is going to draw people
00:04:13.600 as it already is to Canada.
00:04:16.540 We'll make the case there.
00:04:19.140 The votes will be in the feet
00:04:20.500 that are coming here from other provinces.
00:04:23.380 By the way, B.C. operates completely different.
00:04:26.760 First time in their history last year.
00:04:28.700 Net outflow from B.C.
00:04:31.040 We can win the case by standing on what we've got
00:04:33.820 and pressing for improvement.
00:04:36.560 I know that you are not making this a partisan thing,
00:04:40.700 but when you are talking about
00:04:42.920 whether or not there's a way through.
00:04:45.500 The fact of the matter is,
00:04:46.480 you have to have one government or another.
00:04:50.420 And I'm afraid that even under conservative governments,
00:04:54.860 things have not gotten better.
00:04:56.980 They've gotten worse.
00:04:58.700 This is over a long period of time.
00:05:01.460 So, just a couple of examples.
00:05:05.480 Who was the prime minister
00:05:06.980 that first installed inside the federal governments
00:05:11.160 The idea of equity, equity meaning reverse discrimination against straight white men.
00:05:20.040 That was Brian Mulroney.
00:05:23.520 Which prime minister signed Canada up for Agenda 2030 with all of its global organizations and commitments on climate and many other woke, with what came to become woke things?
00:05:41.160 That was Stephen Harper.
00:05:44.860 Which conservative leaders...
00:05:46.600 Just repeat that one.
00:05:47.180 Sorry.
00:05:47.700 What? 0.88
00:05:48.420 Harper did what?
00:05:49.280 Sorry, I missed it.
00:05:49.820 Signed us up for Agenda 2030.
00:05:53.920 Which conservative leaders voted in favor of Bill C-6?
00:06:01.440 C-6 was the bill that amended the criminal code
00:06:05.360 that makes it a criminal offense to counsel a child, a boy,
00:06:12.360 to counsel a boy that he is actually a boy and not a girl.
00:06:17.320 Aaron O'Toole and Pierre Paulyer.
00:06:20.700 This does not represent a different past.
00:06:27.860 Sometimes it represents fiddling in the margins,
00:06:30.740 and sometimes it represents embracing the same trends
00:06:34.440 that you've seen from other parties
00:06:36.580 that run this country.
00:06:39.640 Just a quick correction.
00:06:41.420 Bill C-6 was the first draft.
00:06:43.100 Bill C-4 was the one.
00:06:44.300 Was the one that was passed?
00:06:45.320 Yeah.
00:06:46.660 I corrected Bruce Party.
00:06:48.160 Wow, look at that.
00:06:48.840 There's a ton of legislation
00:06:50.220 that conservatives vote on
00:06:51.780 that I don't agree with.
00:06:52.780 Yes.
00:06:53.320 But I don't understand
00:06:55.020 what that has to do
00:06:56.900 with not answering the question
00:06:59.520 in terms of the way you're talking.
00:07:02.820 The way you deal with that?
00:07:04.440 is you find out which conservative or whoever it is, MP didn't vote that way. And you start to
00:07:11.940 educate people on how to take action locally. And you sit down with those MPs and you say,
00:07:16.740 who gave you the right to vote this way on that? And we are going to do everything we can
00:07:23.140 to put you out of office. That's the way you handle it. And that has happened in the past.
00:07:30.320 we have won on some issues. Every issue? No. I don't know of a country that has, but
00:07:35.840 votes of parties, be it considered or not, that I don't agree with doesn't say to me that
00:07:45.860 dissolution, cratering, blowing it all up is the answer. No, you get back to work, get up,
00:07:53.040 you dust yourself off, and you keep pressing in and go for a change. It's like we presented to
00:07:58.580 Brian Mulroney. Took a while, but we presented to him on the issue of Senate reform. And he was the
00:08:05.360 first prime minister who actually appointed the people's choice. Everybody said it'll never
00:08:11.640 happen. You will never get a prime minister who's going to do Senate appointments anything other
00:08:16.920 than the way it's been done. And here, Albertan said, no, this is our choice. We want you
00:08:23.620 appointing this person, and he did it. Perfect. Was that the only thing? No. But it showed.
00:08:30.900 You focus on an issue. You stay with it. You can make some progress.
00:08:35.600 Okay. Can I respond to that just quickly? If you don't mind, we have a lot of questions.
00:08:39.560 So let's just assume for a moment that that is a productive way forward, that you contact your
00:08:48.080 MP and you say you don't like it and you say you're going to book them out unless they fix
00:08:52.840 things, yadda, yadda. Let's say that works. I don't think it does, but let's say that it does.
00:08:57.900 And let's say that works with conservative MPs. Okay, that does not change the nature of the
00:09:05.240 country. Let me put it this way. Shortly after the most recent federal election, I went to listen to
00:09:11.660 a conservative party strategist assess what happened during the election that they lost.
00:09:16.260 And, of course, he was unhappy to have lost, but he was very happy with the number.
00:09:24.300 He said, in this election, we managed to attract the high-water mark in the modern era for a conservative party in an election.
00:09:35.200 That high-water mark was 41%.
00:09:38.080 Now, I sat there in my chair, and I thought, hold on a minute.
00:09:42.760 If 41% is your high watermark, that is, you don't think that you should expect to do better than that.
00:09:49.720 That's as well as you've ever done.
00:09:52.280 That means even assuming that the Conservative Party is not on the same path as the rest,
00:09:59.860 that 60% of the people in the country are voting to re-elect a socialist party, whatever one it is.
00:10:08.920 They're all voting for socialist parties.
00:10:11.800 And that's 10 years after having a socialist party in power.
00:10:15.720 We are dealing with the character of the country.
00:10:19.560 Canada is a progressive socialist country.
00:10:24.000 And no amount of phoning your MP, whether he'd be conservative or not, is going to change that.
00:10:30.980 Well, I've seen cases where it has.
00:10:33.820 I've seen cases where I was MP.
00:10:36.280 and in came some regulation
00:10:40.080 and the conservative government at the time
00:10:42.500 that was going to severely impair
00:10:45.840 the sale of natural health products.
00:10:49.260 And I'll tell you, I've seen, you know,
00:10:51.780 people blow up on issues.
00:10:53.000 That one in my constituency,
00:10:55.060 that went nuclear.
00:10:58.020 How did I know it went nuclear?
00:10:59.560 People were lined up outside my office.
00:11:01.200 I said, Mr. Day,
00:11:02.640 could you see what you're doing here
00:11:04.860 in shutting down, not shutting down,
00:11:07.000 but dampening the availability of natural health products,
00:11:09.860 I went back to Cabinet and I said,
00:11:11.920 I don't know what you folks are hearing,
00:11:13.680 but this is an issue.
00:11:15.400 How did I know it was?
00:11:16.720 People were, they got organized.
00:11:18.840 They sat down with me as the MP
00:11:20.920 and they did it around the country.
00:11:22.840 And that hit Cabinet.
00:11:24.060 We said, we can't do this.
00:11:26.360 And we didn't do it.
00:11:27.820 No, democracy is not perfect.
00:11:29.440 It's an ugly system, actually.
00:11:31.600 But it can work.
00:11:33.480 It can work better than saying, we're quitting everything.
00:11:38.300 And even on that, I keep coming back to this, Bruce.
00:11:44.300 But Quebec itself, they're a lot more sovereignty autonomous than we are.
00:11:50.740 On their worst day, on their worst day, when they were promised they could have independence, they couldn't do it.
00:11:59.180 They didn't get it in Quebec.
00:12:00.240 You think we're going to get it in Alberta?
00:12:02.000 I'm not happy about that necessarily. It's not going to happen. Edmonton, NDP federally, is going to vote for separation? Calgary, which is getting more, you can call it what you like, but let's say left, right than it ever was? Folks, it's not going to happen.
00:12:22.920 and sending a signal that it could, it's going to really hurt us economically. I'm sorry if you say
00:12:28.780 that. I'm not scaremongering. I'm just saying what is truth. I've traveled around to so many
00:12:33.340 countries that have taken a wrong path on this. And I visited some of the countries that
00:12:37.320 unilaterally made the declaration and there's a little bit of war broke out, but they had like
00:12:43.260 90% of their people saying, we're ready to fight. Wait, you don't have that in Alberta.
00:12:49.160 I'm just stating a fact.
00:12:50.580 I'm not saying I'm happy or sad.
00:12:52.440 You don't, if it comes to a fight like that, an illegal fight, it's not here.
00:12:57.500 It's not going to happen in Alberta.
00:12:59.020 I'm going to ask that we try and keep the answers shorter.
00:13:02.300 We do have a lot to get through, if you don't mind, gentlemen.
00:13:04.920 And you are a very unique person, so I'm not surprised that you did fight and did the right thing.
00:13:10.900 But we have different representatives now.
00:13:14.620 They crossed the floor now.
00:13:17.240 I can't speak to that.
00:13:18.380 That's my own personal opinion.
00:13:20.040 That's not a question.
00:13:21.540 So I'll get back to that.
00:13:22.140 Okay, all MPs, be like me, be like me.
00:13:25.700 We may not be here if that was the case.
00:13:28.860 Mr. Day said that he might reconsider his stay vote if Canada joins the EU.
00:13:34.820 Is that his red line?
00:13:37.080 And why does he draw the line there?
00:13:40.760 Why not at Bill C-9 becoming law?
00:13:44.800 I was afraid someone might ask that after I made that statement.
00:13:47.840 I made that caveat. Seriously, if Canada, and I think the possibility, I could be wrong on this,
00:13:55.320 folks, I think Prime Minister Carney may call an election on this because he is a globalist.
00:14:01.740 He wants to see this happen. He wants to consign over. Look, he's a cultural Marxist. Cultural
00:14:08.960 Marxism says a few things. It says what Karl Marx said, but it adds democracy and to kind of
00:14:14.060 sweeten it and make it look presentable. Karl Marx said, and others, but Marxism basically says
00:14:19.440 you can't have God. You got to take out God. And by the way, the family, that's a man-made
00:14:27.480 construct. So you've got to redefine the family. Hello, that sounds kind of familiar. If you don't
00:14:32.560 need family, you don't need family homes and private property. That's the nexus. That's the
00:14:37.460 nub of Marxism. You don't need private property if you're not raising families. And if you're not
00:14:43.860 working hard and choosing where you want to work so that you can have a home or a business,
00:14:49.700 then guess what? Leave it up to a few corporate elites to decide what kind of businesses are
00:14:55.920 going to be. This is all Marxism. They did it for 70 years to their disaster. And what was
00:15:01.360 very important with cultural Marxism, because people actually believe this is a utopia.
00:15:07.760 Most of the reporters, people say, how come you don't get angry at the reporters?
00:15:10.540 they actually believe the lie. They believe that there's a utopia that can be controlled by a few
00:15:16.760 really, really smart people, and life is going to be beautiful. And that's never proven to be the
00:15:21.720 case. So if somebody wants to hurt your utopia, your common wealth, if they want to hurt that,
00:15:29.580 what do you do? You have to eliminate them. Every communist country that has existed has done that. 0.52
00:15:35.680 Today, we call it cancel culture.
00:15:37.860 I've been canceled.
00:15:39.340 That is a million-dollar hit.
00:15:42.100 When you raised, when I dared to say on CBC that Canada is not perfect, 0.96
00:15:47.400 there are some racist goons in Canada,
00:15:50.940 but Canada is not systemically racist. 0.94
00:15:54.040 We are not.
00:15:55.480 That was it for me.
00:15:56.820 I was done.
00:15:58.040 Canceled all across the country.
00:15:59.880 These things, you pay a price.
00:16:01.460 But that doesn't mean you cave into it.
00:16:05.820 You keep fighting and you keep coming back.
00:16:09.560 That's why, you know, we still, it comes down to this choice.
00:16:14.980 You can't, if you unilaterally declare, as it says, it might happen illegally.
00:16:23.400 30% of you, 30% against 70, that's in Alberta.
00:16:29.380 Forget the rest of Canada.
00:16:30.480 And so on that question, yes, I would give serious consideration. Could I break up Canada? I don't think I could. But if we vote, as I think we will, and Canada embraces cultural Marxism, then I may well look for somewhere else to live.
00:16:50.840 I don't think, Bruce has talked about the nature,
00:16:53.840 you know, kind of the character of most Canadians.
00:16:56.600 I think most Canadians, we're going to find out,
00:16:59.860 they may vote for European-style living.
00:17:03.880 I don't like it. 0.81
00:17:05.540 I may have to either learn to live with it or move.
00:17:10.040 But I know I won't be able to get a revolution,
00:17:12.060 not a real revolution going.
00:17:13.980 I might stir up some people and get some votes, but...
00:17:17.980 So that's my that is my caveat. Absolutely. But this is this is the point.
00:17:27.280 Stockwell is right about cultural Marxism. It's right about Carney.
00:17:33.300 But this is not a recent thing. This has been in development for decades. Decades.
00:17:40.560 This country has been run on those ideas.
00:17:45.200 They weren't always called cultural Marxism.
00:17:48.000 But Canada has a managerial society.
00:17:53.120 It is managed from the center.
00:17:55.340 It is based upon authority.
00:17:57.220 The people are directed.
00:18:00.440 They're influenced.
00:18:01.760 They're regulated.
00:18:02.800 They're supervised.
00:18:03.760 They're controlled.
00:18:04.460 They're tracked.
00:18:04.920 They're surveilled.
00:18:06.360 And that has been the case for a while.
00:18:08.220 It's just getting worse.
00:18:10.560 So that now we are noticing it.
00:18:12.660 It's been that way for a long time.
00:18:15.800 They are told what kind of cars to drive, how to carry their groceries from the store,
00:18:20.160 what medications to take, how to speak, what to think, who to hire.
00:18:26.080 Taxed at home, at work, at the pump, and then taxed again.
00:18:32.100 We are in a country where the people believe that the role of the government is to manage society.
00:18:45.400 That's what they believe. That's the character of the nation.
00:18:51.880 Society's becoming, in Canada, a product of the state.
00:18:56.460 It has the people under their thumb.
00:18:59.400 And that's what we're talking about.
00:19:01.740 Canada is a communitarian, collectivist country.
00:19:05.620 The people believe in it.
00:19:07.900 And if you are going to change that and remain,
00:19:12.360 you have to change what all those people believe.
00:19:17.940 And that is not going to happen.
00:19:21.740 So your choice is to put up with the country that you're in,
00:19:27.480 in the way that it is and getting worse,
00:19:29.440 or to find a way to become independent
00:19:33.740 no matter what.
00:19:36.320 Okay.
00:19:40.880 So the alternative is
00:19:43.700 always we should try and change things federally.
00:19:48.340 We shouldn't give up on that.
00:19:49.980 We should try.
00:19:50.820 We should try.
00:19:51.600 But we have a province now,
00:19:54.360 only premier in the country.
00:19:56.520 Because Bruce mentioned the children and transitioning and stuff like that.
00:20:01.740 Only premier in the country who said,
00:20:05.320 adults have the right to do what they want with their bodies.
00:20:08.240 You can define yourself the way you want, but kids will be protected.
00:20:11.320 It's not happening to kids in Alberta.
00:20:13.740 Why did that happen?
00:20:14.920 Because enough of us, you, said, hey, we want this to happen.
00:20:19.740 And so we got it.
00:20:20.740 We're the only ones.
00:20:22.320 Federal government couldn't stop us.
00:20:23.920 We got that.
00:20:24.580 back Ralph Klein days. We were tired of this progressive tax system where the harder you
00:20:31.340 work, the more you got punished. That's insane. I know what it's like to work on the line.
00:20:36.000 Canada Packers. Yes, I tell my granddaughter when she's got little tears coming down
00:20:40.240 cheeks, Grandpa has killed a lot of cows. And here we were in that situation. The foreman
00:20:50.100 comes down the line. It didn't just happen at a packing plant. It says, hey, how many want to work
00:20:54.760 four hours overtime? It's time and a half. Most of the guys and the girls said no. I said, guys,
00:21:01.700 four hours, it's time and a half. Yeah, but we move into a higher tax bracket. And it all gets
00:21:07.680 taxed away long before I was in politics. I said, I don't know how, but someday I'm going to change
00:21:14.200 that. We shouldn't be punished more because we work harder. And we got it changed. Overnight,
00:21:21.020 no. But it was a far better way of doing it than trying to unilaterally declare independence 30%
00:21:27.940 of the people and have everything come skidding to a stop. We're never going to see, I hope nobody
00:21:33.380 thinks we're ever going to see the perfect government. The only perfect government you're
00:21:36.300 going to see is the one that Bruce and I will one day form. That's it. Going this unilateral
00:21:42.340 independence way is going to be far worse. We can do better, but we can do it right here. We still
00:21:47.860 have enough critical mass here in Alberta to sit down with our premiers, to sit down with our NLAs
00:21:52.900 and say, we want this change. We want that change. We want this protection. And we can be the best
00:21:57.880 province with all of those protections. Perfect? No. But a whole lot better. You're not just
00:22:03.520 fighting the federal government. Your Alberta managerial state exists in Alberta too. Yeah,
00:22:10.300 Your premier, your government acts the same way towards you, maybe not in the details, but in the overall scheme of things.
00:22:21.280 In Alberta, you are subject to the same kinds of provincial rules as apply in other provinces, too.
00:22:28.620 Your managerial state is both Canadian and Albertan.
00:22:34.180 And so this is also an inside Alberta problem.
00:22:37.360 And independence, I hope, will mean that you not only escape the Canada that is outside Alberta, but purge the Canada that is inside Alberta too.
00:22:47.780 Yeah, I wouldn't say that, I wouldn't hit Danielle Smith with that same blanket.
00:22:54.820 She has proven herself to be very different than the other premiers. 0.99
00:22:58.880 A perfect premier? No.
00:23:01.260 But the progress, the things we've got in Alberta that other provinces don't,
00:23:07.280 because the government said, no, we're going to do it this way, we're going to do it this way.
00:23:11.580 It's way better than, again, trying to get 30% of people to go to war.
00:23:17.540 It's just, it ain't going to happen.
00:23:19.060 We're well off on the question, but I want to continue here.
00:23:22.160 There's a bit of a hypothetical.
00:23:25.440 If Alberta was already an independent country and Canada offered Alberta space in the Confederation, should Alberta take it?
00:23:34.700 I just don't deal with hypotheticals.
00:23:37.040 It's a fun question, but it's like playing cards.
00:23:39.680 The answer isn't no, it's are you kidding?
00:23:45.800 Fair enough.
00:23:46.500 Let's move to the next one.
00:23:47.540 hypothetically no just kidding um very real 50 countries have joined have gained independence
00:23:55.920 since 1970 they did not take unlimited years to gain their independence it is not the political
00:24:02.700 bureaucracy is it not the political bureaucracy uh not negotiating good faith being the cause
00:24:08.640 for the excessive time frame that you are claiming i visited quite a few of those countries a lot of
00:24:14.160 bloodshed to get it there all right no i'm just stating a fact they didn't say to their governments
00:24:19.240 hey it's okay if we leave i'm just you know you want to talk about serbia you want to talk about
00:24:23.620 croatia you want to talk about those places i've been there not pretty but is that what you say i
00:24:30.460 don't know is that what you're saying then i think you just need to be honest and do a call to arms
00:24:34.860 if that's what you're saying because those 50 countries not pretty not most of them not pretty
00:24:42.600 Well, that's not...
00:24:43.360 Some of them are fine.
00:24:45.480 If you think about the Czech Republic and Slovakia,
00:24:48.020 they did it very peacefully and successfully,
00:24:49.840 and they're very wealthy.
00:24:50.700 It's fine.
00:24:51.900 So, or Norway and Sweden.
00:24:54.280 There are lots of examples of this having been done through history.
00:24:56.900 What's the difference there?
00:24:57.660 You have populations on both sides saying, let's do it.
00:25:00.600 Here we got, again, and Alberta, Alberta is the high mark
00:25:04.740 in terms of people upset at 30%.
00:25:08.120 Right.
00:25:08.840 Whenever you had a country where you had the majority not wanting, it was war.
00:25:14.180 It was war. 0.88
00:25:15.180 And so, let me just go back to what he just said, which is right.
00:25:19.280 In those situations, you had people on both sides who wanted to do it and were willing to do it.
00:25:24.900 And the implication isβ€”
00:25:25.560 And the governments recognized that, and they settled it.
00:25:27.940 The Canadians will not let you do this.
00:25:30.280 That's the message.
00:25:31.300 So what do you do?
00:25:32.000 And that message is not wrong.
00:25:33.960 And the thing is, you have to decide now what to do with that reality.
00:25:39.760 That's what you're applying.
00:25:40.940 You are applying that Canada will not let you do this in a timely way.
00:25:44.760 No, I'm saying in my lifetime, in my tenure, both as an MLA and as an MP, I was able to make some changes and get some things done.
00:25:53.780 Perfect? No.
00:25:55.160 We got some things done.
00:25:56.580 It made life better.
00:25:58.100 And I prefer that way than...
00:26:01.420 scaring business away
00:26:04.820 and everybody starves.
00:26:05.840 This leads to the next question
00:26:08.400 for Stockwell 2.
00:26:09.820 How do you propose Alberta get Ottawa
00:26:11.740 to work with us instead of ignoring 0.97
00:26:13.900 our pleas for change?
00:26:16.140 I think the history
00:26:17.840 is pretty clear. It's tough to get Ottawa
00:26:20.040 to work with us. So we
00:26:21.900 work very hard.
00:26:23.960 That's been since day one.
00:26:26.800 That's been since day one.
00:26:28.220 So folks, tell me
00:26:29.460 Tell me what you're going to do, or maybe Bruce could tell us.
00:26:34.280 You have 48 First Nations groups who say there's no way we're going independence.
00:26:40.840 We're staying federal.
00:26:44.360 Let's keep the comments from the audience.
00:26:46.900 Okay.
00:26:48.140 So the big portion of Calgary, for instance, that's what you're talking about.
00:26:52.260 There's some very responsible First Nations groups there that own large chunks of Calgary.
00:26:57.880 and they're saying we're not having any part of this. There's First Nations groups whose borders
00:27:02.860 straddle other provinces and even the U.S. border, and they're saying we'll have nothing to do with
00:27:09.980 this. We will not work with any government that's going to make a unilateral declaration. I'm just
00:27:15.700 looking for answers here. I know what it's like to work with First Nations. You know what? They're
00:27:19.440 like any other nation. Some are great to work with, some are not. But that's like a city,
00:27:24.280 any city, state, or province.
00:27:28.160 Yep.
00:27:29.200 Yeah, go ahead.
00:27:29.640 No, go ahead.
00:27:30.160 That's fine.
00:27:30.600 Let's move on.
00:27:31.680 Okay.
00:27:32.560 No, Bruce should ask
00:27:34.240 what he's going to do with,
00:27:35.720 I think it's unanimous
00:27:36.820 among the 48 First Nations.
00:27:38.880 I think all of them are saying.
00:27:39.900 Amongst the chiefs, to be fair.
00:27:42.000 Ah.
00:27:42.980 Oh, okay.
00:27:43.900 Well, do you know what?
00:27:44.880 I've worked with some businesses
00:27:46.140 and we've done some great deals
00:27:49.860 with First Nations groups.
00:27:51.000 They're great.
00:27:51.760 The ones that are business-minded
00:27:52.940 are great to deal with. We've got cities in Canada that are not business-minded,
00:27:57.120 they're socialists, and they're horrific to deal with. We have some First Nations groups that 1.00
00:28:01.600 really understand what it is to get business going so their young people can thrive and they can
00:28:07.380 have a good life. But all of them are saying, we will have nothing to do with this. And so if
00:28:14.580 they've got, I don't know, if you've driven across Devon or if you've driven south to Calgary
00:28:19.800 through it. What happens to all those roads? What happens to them? Say, we're not leaving.
00:28:25.740 We're not going. I'm just looking for the practical suggestion. But I think you answered
00:28:31.380 that because there is First Nations across the international border. So the same situation
00:28:36.920 would be there too. All right. Sorry, what were you saying, Bruce? Oh, sorry, Jason, sorry.
00:28:41.260 Yeah, yeah. No, as you laid out, there are some First Nations across the U.S.-Canada
00:28:45.420 international border. Right, but none of them are buying into separation. No, no, that wasn't
00:28:49.040 your question. Your question is how to deal with
00:28:50.920 the border issue. It's the same way. Yeah, it's huge.
00:28:53.240 It'll be another international border, the same
00:28:55.020 as that one, where they cross freely
00:28:56.980 as it is. Okay, how long do you think that will
00:28:58.900 take to negotiate? Oh, let's
00:29:00.960 go to the next question. I'll tell you about something. I would love to reschedule
00:29:03.100 you for a debate with me,
00:29:04.440 but at this stage, I do
00:29:06.960 want to move the questions on,
00:29:08.660 unless there's any follow-up on the personation.
00:29:10.880 Nope. Nope. All right, so
00:29:12.820 businesses will do business
00:29:14.920 worldwide in the most hostile
00:29:16.820 environments. How does going through
00:29:18.920 the process of becoming one of the most welcoming countries, the country of Alberta, create risks?
00:29:26.040 Well, I challenge your assumption there with respect. Whoever asks the question, it's wrong.
00:29:31.880 I meet with companies regularly who leave countries because of the hostile environment.
00:29:37.400 Companies do not invest, they don't take their shareholder money, and invest it in countries
00:29:43.000 that are hostile and where there is civil strife.
00:29:46.600 Countries like China will go in there.
00:29:49.000 But no, I'm sorry, it doesn't happen.
00:29:51.280 I had a great opportunity.
00:29:52.900 We were presenting to one of the most respected
00:29:56.280 and responsible mining groups in the world.
00:29:59.760 Canadian mining companies actually are among the best
00:30:02.980 in the world in that regard.
00:30:04.500 And they just said, that country?
00:30:07.120 Too much strife.
00:30:09.020 We are not taking our shareholders' hard-earned cash
00:30:12.540 and investing it there.
00:30:13.820 So the question is just wrong on its face.
00:30:16.900 I say that respectfully.
00:30:17.760 But even Danielle Smith has said,
00:30:20.980 and I think she's right on this,
00:30:23.660 that Canada is a hostile nation for investment
00:30:26.520 in so many different ways.
00:30:28.300 The amount of money, the amount of investment
00:30:30.480 that Alberta has lost
00:30:32.560 because of the Canadian system
00:30:35.980 of regulation, red tape, duty to consult,
00:30:40.980 aboriginal rights, and all of the rest of the stuff is enormous.
00:30:45.800 It is not right to call Canada as it presently exists, 0.99
00:30:50.160 a place that is friendly to investment.
00:30:53.060 It is the status quo that is the problem.
00:30:56.080 And your opportunity is to create a new jurisdiction
00:30:58.960 that has none of those things.
00:31:01.400 Yeah, if you can get the people behind you to do that, but you can't.
00:31:08.040 You talk about, Bruce, you talk about Canada.
00:31:09.700 I'm talking about Alberta, 70% are not going to vote with you.
00:31:15.360 70%.
00:31:15.800 That's not close.
00:31:18.120 In politics, that's a country mile.
00:31:20.820 They're not with you on this.
00:31:22.700 They're with you on other things.
00:31:24.720 Okay.
00:31:25.700 I'll come back here.
00:31:26.980 If you win the vote, I'll come back here and say, I was wrong.
00:31:30.620 But hold on.
00:31:31.840 Just a minute.
00:31:32.360 But I find this argument self-defeating.
00:31:37.320 If you are arguing that it shouldn't be done, they'll vote against it, and therefore they vote against it, and therefore it shouldn't be done.
00:31:45.160 Why don't you tell them why they should vote for it so we can go forward and get over 50% and then try to achieve the things we're talking about?
00:31:52.840 You agree with me about the problems in this country.
00:31:56.500 Why don't we try toβ€”
00:31:57.180 Because I don't think they should vote for it.
00:31:59.100 They're voting for confusion.
00:32:00.760 They're voting for poverty.
00:32:02.500 They're voting for all kinds of things.
00:32:04.760 We just heard.
00:32:05.940 We just heard.
00:32:06.660 Someone asked a question about people investing in hostile environments.
00:32:12.220 They don't do it.
00:32:14.080 You think investment isβ€”and by the way, I agree, so many Canadian policies are not conducive to investment.
00:32:21.360 I agree with that.
00:32:22.380 It's one of the reasons I went into politics.
00:32:24.280 But Alberta, we can be the beacon.
00:32:26.540 We are in many ways.
00:32:27.920 We can be the shining light.
00:32:29.420 People are investing here and not in other parts of Canada because of the policies we have in place right now.
00:32:35.700 perfect? No. Better than screaming to a halt and becoming paralyzed? Way better.
00:32:43.860 Can I move to the next question? And it's a fairly long one, so I'll just try and get it as quick as
00:32:48.120 possible. Federal elections are over once Ontarians have voted. Constitutional change is impossible.
00:32:54.560 The Albertan economy has been stifled by two Trudeaus and now Kearney. Independence may be 0.70
00:33:01.660 risky, but staying part of Canada is scarier to me. Aren't you concerned about the increase
00:33:10.180 in surveillance, censorship, laws, excessive immigration, two-tiered justice, catch and
00:33:16.220 release, policies, etc.? We'll start with Bruce on that one. Oh, the answer is yes.
00:33:23.320 and i agree with bruce yes we got agreement
00:33:31.960 stock there's a lot here for you but but sorry just i don't want to be glib but
00:33:40.020 but the case that i'm trying to make is that all of those things are symptomatic of the trouble
00:33:45.860 that we're in and any route forward that does not fix those problems is not a route you want to take
00:33:53.020 And I'm sorry, I'm not hearing a root to that.
00:33:56.500 Phoning your MP is not a solution to that cultural ethos.
00:34:01.680 The managerial philosophy of your government is that.
00:34:05.400 That's where we've arrived.
00:34:07.480 We've arrived today, there.
00:34:10.580 And no amount of writing letters to your MP is going to change that.
00:34:14.600 It's not.
00:34:15.180 This is embedded in not only the structure of government, it's embedded in the culture.
00:34:20.380 So if you really want this to change, you've got to make a big, huge change.
00:34:27.360 You need to cause a political earthquake.
00:34:33.300 And that is what Stockwell is warning us against.
00:34:38.420 So that is the question for you.
00:34:40.520 Are you willing to put up with the risks of causing a political earthquake, or is it too dangerous for you?
00:34:48.760 That is the question.
00:34:50.340 Well, first you have to explain the risk, and you haven't done that, the risk of business
00:34:53.460 leaving Alberta.
00:34:54.360 We're already in a tenuous situation in Canada in terms of not being open.
00:34:58.320 And I'll tell you what, there was an earthquake, and I was there for it.
00:35:02.200 It was 1993.
00:35:04.120 Ralph Klein, who didn't have the answer to everything, Ralph Klein was just elected.
00:35:08.040 We were in debt like we'd never been before.
00:35:11.340 Taxes were going up.
00:35:12.640 And if you remember, the provincial liberals under Lawrence Decor, they were outflanking
00:35:18.040 us on the right.
00:35:19.620 they said, we're going to rein in spending. We're not going to have this runaway managerial
00:35:25.840 bureaucracy. And Ralph looked at all of us and said, hey, folks, we're going to have to make
00:35:31.840 a promise here. We're going to have to promise no increase in spending. Matter of fact, the promise
00:35:37.440 we took in 93 was in four years, we will reduce government spending 20%. Remember that? We will
00:35:44.360 there was a protest a day for four years. Why was that? Because the people of Alberta did rise up
00:35:51.320 and they said to us after a dynasty of conservatives, we're not reelecting you, 0.99
00:35:56.120 bums. You won't control your spending. And we got back in caucus and cabinet and said, 0.97
00:36:01.560 oh man, there's a revolution going on. We got to get the spending under control. And we did.
00:36:08.260 And what has happened since that time?
00:36:11.080 Oh, there was all caught.
00:36:12.880 No, all caught.
00:36:13.760 Your present UCP government in Alberta is the highest spending Alberta government in history.
00:36:19.360 So whenever you make some kind of a gain, and I don't doubt that there have been gains now and then,
00:36:25.540 they are quickly wiped out by the trend.
00:36:28.380 It is an irresistible trend.
00:36:30.780 It always eventually gets bigger.
00:36:33.040 It always eventually controls more of what you do.
00:36:38.520 And there's no way to change that unless you turn the page, start again, and get a very different kind of constitution and government.
00:36:49.000 Okay, here's a question I think you both will be able to debate on.
00:36:53.060 And we might get two different answers.
00:36:55.140 We'll start with stock on this one.
00:36:57.460 I can still call you stock.
00:36:58.600 Yeah, for a little while more.
00:37:00.720 After that, it's back to your excellency.
00:37:03.040 supreme leader um isn't the managed risk of independence less than a guarantee of an
00:37:10.160 accelerating dystopia of status quo that's a you know what that's a great question and that's why
00:37:16.060 i'm here tonight i say no um the the sudden shock of a vote and by the way i'm saying respectfully
00:37:23.420 and i could be wrong i don't think the vote's going to carry the very fact that we're debating
00:37:28.200 it and it might carry is already going to slow down investors. So, no, I think proceeding
00:37:35.460 imperfectly, making some gains is better than screeching to a stop, having all business,
00:37:44.240 significant business cease, and everybody becoming poorer. So, that's a great question,
00:37:49.960 and it's why we're here tonight. You folks, most of you, are voting for the one way to improve.
00:37:55.300 I'm voting for the other, and I think I have history on my side, to say we'll survive better
00:38:00.540 if we take that hard route. And if you don't like the spending the government's doing,
00:38:05.940 well, you know what you have to do. You have to make, and please don't minimize it to say
00:38:11.060 phone your MLA. No, sit down with them. When I used to sit down with a group like this,
00:38:16.280 in my constituency, that got my attention. Sometimes you just miss stuff. And other times
00:38:21.940 you realize, I might not get reelected, which is a pretty good motivation. So yeah, the harder route
00:38:28.020 in some ways, but the more prosperous route is to fight for these changes. Make Alberta the most
00:38:35.000 prosperous. It is right now, actually. And spending could well be up. I don't know. We'll have to
00:38:41.260 check on that. You don't like the spending? Then say to the government of the day, we're not going
00:38:47.640 to vote for you. We're going to actually do the unthinkable. We're going to vote for liberals.
00:38:50.960 That got our attention in those days.
00:38:53.600 We changed everything.
00:38:56.000 The problem is I've criticized what some of the conservative prime ministers have done through the period.
00:39:06.540 There are all kinds of other policies that conservative parties have endorsed, whether in government or opposition.
00:39:14.040 Climate change, net zero, public health care, gender care, and the list goes on.
00:39:20.120 And the argument and response is, it's not fair to blame them for that because they need to get elected.
00:39:30.400 And that is true.
00:39:31.860 That's a good response.
00:39:33.780 I do not blame them for that, in that sense, because they need to get elected.
00:39:40.860 That's the point.
00:39:43.880 You have to get elected in this country as a whole.
00:39:48.540 And the people elsewhere in the country, obviously, I mean, the regions are different.
00:39:55.260 They do not think the way Albertans think.
00:39:58.240 They don't vote for the same kinds of reasons and issues and parties that Albertans vote for.
00:40:02.740 There's nothing wrong with differences between regions.
00:40:05.140 But the fact of the matter is that this country exists in a state, and its government exists in such a structure,
00:40:11.800 that your concerns and your culture will not be able to prevail.
00:40:19.860 That is the reality of the political story in this country.
00:40:27.420 Conservative politicians and conservative parties must be electable to have half a chance across the country.
00:40:37.780 And across the country means you're going to be endorsing things that might not be popular in this province, and you are stuck.
00:40:50.960 This government here, I'm not waving the flag for the provincial government, but they have done some things that no other governments have done.
00:40:59.720 It's because people like you have been upset, and they've changed that.
00:41:02.900 Perfectly, no. Better than the alternative of disintegration and complete stagnation.
00:41:10.340 And the climate policy stuff, man, this government, Premier Smith, she takes flack all across the country and certainly from the federal government because she hasn't bought in to so much of that climate net.
00:41:22.920 Not true. Not true.
00:41:23.640 We've come up with a number of ways to reduce that.
00:41:27.560 Not true. She just signed on to a huge climate boondoggle. Climate capture and storage. 1.00
00:41:32.900 is nothing but a boondoggle.
00:41:35.680 She passed a heraldedβ€”I'm going to change topics now.
00:41:39.740 Climate change is one thing.
00:41:41.300 She passed an Alberta Bill of Rights with much trumpeting. 0.99
00:41:46.060 It is useless, absolutely useless. 0.97
00:41:49.460 It does not do what it claims to do. 0.99
00:41:51.580 We can go down a long list of claims made by the Conservative Party
00:41:57.120 presently in power in Alberta to see what they have actually done,
00:42:00.940 and it is not as claimed.
00:42:02.900 Do you like that there's choice of education in Alberta?
00:42:07.260 Oh, sure.
00:42:08.480 We lead the nation in school choice.
00:42:11.400 That's just one.
00:42:12.820 We're getting off topic again.
00:42:14.660 No, I'm just saying, a perfect government?
00:42:18.080 No.
00:42:19.360 Absolutely not.
00:42:20.900 Done things that no other government in the country has done?
00:42:23.660 Yes.
00:42:24.180 But your Alberta government, and I'm not talking about just this one now.
00:42:27.500 Let's just talk about it over time.
00:42:28.840 Alberta governments, over time, institute, run, and maintain programs that are socialist.
00:42:42.620 They are socialist.
00:42:45.120 Single-payer public health care is socialist Medicare.
00:42:49.080 Now, the Alberta government goes along, some people say, in order to get the federal dollars.
00:42:54.380 But nevertheless, for whatever reason, you have a socialized system of health care in Alberta.
00:43:01.280 You do not live in a province that is different in those respects from other places in the country.
00:43:07.720 You are not getting your own people, your own government to do as you are aspiring.
00:43:13.580 I think we need a great debate. I'm glad you raised that on socialized health care.
00:43:16.760 That's obviously Canada Health Act. In some ways, we're stuck with that.
00:43:20.240 But again, Alberta, perfectly, no, but more progressive, and that's the positive use of
00:43:27.200 progressive, on health care than any other province. There's surgical centers being built
00:43:32.340 right now. You can hear it. She gets beat up daily on this by the socialists for allowing
00:43:38.180 two-tiered health care. That is like the worst thing. You can be, well, I won't even start to
00:43:44.100 name other crimes, but you can be the worst of the worst. But you talk about two-tiered health
00:43:48.360 care. Believe me, I know what that's like to get hit by that one. And she's being more progressive
00:43:53.500 on health care. You can go to places. Diagnostic testing that you can go and pay for yourself?
00:44:00.140 Unheard of. Doing it here. Perfect? No. Better than the rest? Yes. This Q&A, perfect? No.
00:44:07.980 Better than the rest? Yes. This has been a lot about question 10. Okay. But I have another one
00:44:14.760 which takes us to the referendum and the other questions.
00:44:17.580 So we have four constitutional questions on the ballot.
00:44:21.640 What are, and those will be six through nine,
00:44:24.440 what are the chances of the rest of Canada agreeing to work with us on them?
00:44:29.080 As you perfectly illustrated, Stockwell,
00:44:32.560 Senate reform has already been tried and failed.
00:44:36.540 Delete the questions six through nine, the constitutional.
00:44:39.240 Yeah, the questions that are there,
00:44:40.600 we can have some provincial jurisdiction and have a difference, just like Quebec has different
00:44:46.440 issues. We don't need the rest of Canada to agree with us on some of the distinctions that this
00:44:51.620 government wants on immigration, for instance. These are questions six to four, which are the
00:44:57.140 constitutional ones, like abolishing the Senate, judicial... Oh, I think those are fair questions
00:45:02.280 to ask. I think abolishing the Senate, frankly, would be a mistake. We've made some little gains
00:45:07.360 there. Not a lot. We had, as I said, we had every premier in the province at one point,
00:45:14.120 every premier in the country saying, I'll agree, equal, I'll agree, elected, frankly,
00:45:20.760 and fairly effective. We blew it. We threw that one away. But it's happened before. It can happen
00:45:26.240 again. The event was advertised to end at nine. I could normally stay here till midnight. Believe
00:45:33.520 Believe it or not, I have a conference call at 9.30 that I've got to get to.
00:45:36.740 We'll get you out of here at 9.15 if that's okay.
00:45:39.040 That's seven minutes.
00:45:40.900 Okay.
00:45:41.520 It's false advertising, but I'll take it.
00:45:43.740 Negotiating.
00:45:45.800 We certainly have some interruptions and other stuff come up, but I really appreciate your time.
00:45:50.540 So we'll be utilizing it.
00:45:52.320 Do you want to address the constitutional change issue on the ballot, question six through nine?
00:45:57.780 Zero is my answer.
00:46:00.540 The question was, what's the chances of those constitutional changes?
00:46:05.600 The answer is zero.
00:46:08.440 Yeah, and we disagree.
00:46:09.960 Just as we made headway, we have made some headway in terms of provincial sovereignty, just as Quebec did.
00:46:16.780 We can make some headway on this.
00:46:18.220 Perfect?
00:46:18.700 No.
00:46:19.140 But more than if we say we're going to bail.
00:46:21.280 You can make provincial headway within those areas or within provincial jurisdiction.
00:46:25.460 But the question was, the questions that propose a constitutional change, what are the chances of the rest of the country agreeing to do the change that Albertans say they want?
00:46:36.100 My answer is, like Senate reform, I would say, I would say not great, except I saw it happen before my eyes with Charlottetown.
00:46:45.200 And frankly, I was shocked.
00:46:47.160 We got it.
00:46:48.220 We did it.
00:46:49.460 And some of us traveled the country for a few years.
00:46:52.620 We got some stuff.
00:46:53.800 I don't
00:46:55.320 I'm going to get repetitive
00:46:56.120 we threw that away
00:46:57.100 out of spite
00:46:58.080 but
00:46:58.880 anyway
00:46:59.540 is it possible?
00:47:00.860 it's possible
00:47:01.420 let's do our closing comments
00:47:02.800 two and a half minutes talk
00:47:03.860 I started
00:47:07.000 so I'll let Bruce
00:47:07.860 go ahead
00:47:09.820 new question
00:47:10.900 or you want to keep going
00:47:11.760 no no
00:47:12.780 okay
00:47:13.200 carry on
00:47:14.140 listen
00:47:14.600 freedom is worth fighting for
00:47:18.220 and
00:47:20.000 Alberta's
00:47:21.520 slogan is still
00:47:23.060 strong and free. And we have left out one thing that's in our Constitution. There hasn't been
00:47:28.640 any discussion on this tonight, and that is the preamble in our Constitution.
00:47:36.940 Pierre Trudeau, of all people, agreed, of all people, that yes, our preamble should say
00:47:46.560 recognizing the supremacy of God.
00:47:50.580 I think we do all we can
00:47:51.820 with our human strength
00:47:52.820 and there just comes moments
00:47:54.060 when we just say,
00:47:55.280 God help us.
00:47:56.180 So for Alberta,
00:47:57.600 thank you for being here tonight, folks,
00:47:59.180 and God help us.
00:48:01.140 Peace.
00:48:05.860 I would say,
00:48:07.280 and I'm not the first one to say this, 0.97
00:48:09.120 that Alberta is in a bad marriage, 0.79
00:48:12.540 an abusive marriage.
00:48:14.780 And you're being told
00:48:16.240 you have it so good
00:48:18.380 why would you want to leave
00:48:20.980 you won't be able to make it
00:48:23.040 as well without me
00:48:24.040 where will you get your money
00:48:25.820 what about all the difficulties you'll encounter
00:48:28.200 but in actual fact
00:48:30.700 Alberta is the one
00:48:33.200 holding the marriage up
00:48:34.440 and if you really want
00:48:37.180 to get away from the abuse
00:48:38.700 counseling will not do
00:48:41.040 you can talk and talk
00:48:43.040 and talk and talk and talk
00:48:44.220 talk but experience has shown that has not worked so either leave or put up with the treatment that
00:48:55.980 that you are getting.