The Critical Compass Podcast - Farming, Family, & Alberta Independence - Tim Hoven on the Power of Grassroots Movements

00:00:00.000 The biggest problem we have right now for the independence movement is that things are okay.

00:00:06.660 Things are okay.

00:00:07.960 You know, I can go to the grocery store.

00:00:09.820 I can get financing for the new car.

00:00:13.240 I might not be able to afford a house, but, you know, I'm sure Carney will fix that in the future.

00:00:17.740 Things are okay.

00:00:19.760 And I look into the future and I think things are not going to be okay.

00:00:24.780 And unless someone has the courage to stand up and say, we need to change some of these things so that we can all have a better future, things are just going to get worse.

00:00:35.280 We have to choose either to have the courage to change or just sit back home and watch Netflix until the end of the world.

00:00:43.540 And I'm not comfortable sitting back and watching Netflix.

00:00:45.940 I've got a lot invested in my family, in my province, and we have to act like the future is important to us.

00:00:55.740 We actually have to care about the future so we act on it.

00:00:58.740 Welcome back to another episode of the Critical Compass.

00:01:19.140 I'm James.

00:01:19.840 This is my co-host, Mike.

00:01:20.980 And today we have Tim Hoven, a regenerative rancher who wears many hats and is an outspoken Alberta independence advocate.

00:01:30.980 So, welcome to the show.

00:01:32.620 Well, thank you for the invite tonight.

00:01:34.520 I am a certified organic regenerative rancher here in west central Alberta on the eastern edge of Clearwater County.

00:01:42.580 We farm on our family farm that's been in the Hoven family since 1908.

00:01:47.600 I have, I've been married for 33 years.

00:01:52.320 We have eight children, six boys, two girls, and three grandchildren with a fourth on the way.

00:02:00.020 So, just with the family and the farm, it keeps me busy.

00:02:04.180 But to fill in those few extra minutes that I might have in a day, I'm also involved with the Alberta Independence Movement.

00:02:10.540 And various committees all throughout the community.

00:02:16.620 So, I'm a big believer that if you want to make change, you have to be the one rolling the ball forward.

00:02:24.020 And that's how we end up here tonight.

00:02:26.220 Yeah, we're here because, well, even I met you at the We Unify conference.

00:02:33.580 And again, that's a place where you have people who want change coming together to share ideas and move the needle that way.

00:02:43.420 And I guess with your experience at a community level, at a farm, well, you also ran like at a municipal level, correct?

00:02:54.200 Yes, I was an elected municipal councillor from 2017 to 2021.

00:02:59.700 And in one of those years, I was the Reeve of Clearwater County.

00:03:03.420 Have things been shifting a little bit in these smaller towns?

00:03:06.880 Or do you feel like they're still staying very conservative, very well grounded?

00:03:12.340 Like, how does that differ from like 2025?

00:03:16.780 And what's kind of the temperature reading?

00:03:18.560 The biggest difference that I can see over the last five years is the complete lack of trust in a growing percentage of the population.

00:03:29.480 We see it at a municipal level.

00:03:31.280 Talking with many people who work at the county, they can't believe how people no longer trust them.

00:03:38.040 For example, if any municipal employees going out to deal with the landowner, quite often they will have to have the county peace officers coming with them to make sure the situation doesn't get out of hand.

00:03:54.300 I think that comes back to, I really believe it relates back to how the government at the federal, provincial, and even some municipal levels treated people during COVID.

00:04:03.360 That, that level of trust, that level of a healthy relationship was broken.

00:04:11.320 And it, it's going to be the biggest issue that we all have to face here in the next 10 years.

00:04:16.000 How do you have a functioning society when people no longer trust the institutions that govern them?

00:04:21.400 It's almost impossible.

00:04:22.520 So we're, we're in this strange place where do we go towards increased tyranny and control from these centralized organizations or do we have people with courage in those leadership positions who are going to work to rebuild the trust that was broken?

00:04:38.420 Yeah, we talk about that on this show a lot about how, you know, during the last potentially many decades people could point to, but definitely the last decade, um, the, the general feel of a lot of Canada has shifted from, uh, what used to be a quite a high trust society to a very low trust society.

00:04:55.060 And it sort of seems, I mean, we're city guys from Edmonton, you know, so we don't, you know, we kind of view a lot of the rural areas or more rural areas of the province of Canada in general as sort of being somewhat immune to that.

00:05:07.140 Maybe a little bit more grounded in their, in their, um, closer knit communities, but it's interesting to hear that that's not necessarily the case anymore.

00:05:13.620 So it's still, it's trickled down even to you guys.

00:05:15.880 Yeah.

00:05:16.120 And then, you know, a high trust community, that's an interesting statement.

00:05:20.360 When I was growing up, we never locked our doors on our homes, right?

00:05:24.820 The whole community, everyone had their doors unlocked in because what if a neighbor had car trouble and needed to come in your house and use your phone, right?

00:05:32.580 That was a legitimate reason not to lock your door.

00:05:35.200 You'd go to town, buy groceries, leave the stuff, groceries in the car and not lock your doors and things were never stolen.

00:05:43.620 When I ran in 2017, the crime rate in Clearwater County was actually higher than the crime rate in New York City at the time.

00:05:51.140 So when I wrote something and put it on my blog during the election, I actually had the local RCMP constable call me up and ask if I'd take that down because he didn't think it made the community look very good.

00:06:05.340 Which was strange that the RCMP is monitoring a candidate's blog post to see what he's saying.

00:06:11.940 Certainly.

00:06:12.420 Is that what sort of, I was going to ask you, what was your sort of initial push that got into politics?

00:06:20.200 Was it that?

00:06:20.780 Was it seeing your community change like that, even as early as 2017?

00:06:24.760 That was probably the most imminent concern.

00:06:28.280 We lived in such a high crime area.

00:06:31.060 It was about every second day, a neighbor within a four mile radius was getting broken into.

00:06:35.960 Having gas stolen, a quad stolen, it was not a safe place to be.

00:06:43.760 So I got elected, we did a lot of work with the RCMP and by work with the RCMP, every time we would see them, we would ask them, what are they doing about rural crime?

00:06:54.820 And it took a few years, but we were able to put enough pressure, not just the council, but the people in the community.

00:07:01.960 We were able to put enough pressure to get the RCMP out here more often, clean up some of these meth labs and chop shops that were in the area.

00:07:10.180 And things have been good for about seven years.

00:07:14.100 Yeah, so that pressure can be effective.

00:07:17.280 It just takes enough people to apply that pressure.

00:07:20.760 And time.

00:07:22.320 Like it literally took years to change the motivation of the RCMP in one community to clean up one small part of the community.

00:07:32.920 And that's more of a bottom up rather than, so I feel like there's change that can happen within yourself, within your family, within your community.

00:07:45.060 There's all these circles that they keep on expanding.

00:07:48.240 And you're a good example of like, if you take control of the circles right around you.

00:07:53.700 Yeah.

00:07:54.460 And you can affect a lot of change directly.

00:07:57.320 But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't also push towards changing these larger circles, because often that sets the tone for a lot of what happens on an individual level.

00:08:12.140 But maybe that's more why we're seeing, like we're seeing a lot of the same sentiments from Alberta independent supporters.

00:08:20.480 It's that they want to be able to take care of these circles just around them, their family, their communities, and they don't want as much coming from top down.

00:08:31.720 They want that self-determination.

00:08:34.900 Do you find that's a common sentiment in Clearwater right now as well?

00:08:39.580 Like, hmm.

00:08:44.220 The Rocky Chamber of Commerce had an election forum.

00:08:47.500 And one of the questions that came up from the crowd was whether or not the candidate supported the Forever Canada petition or the Alberta Prosperity petition for independence.

00:09:03.140 And the councillors, there must have been 12 people up on stage, only one of them would answer, and he was pro-Canada, but the rest would not come out and say whether they're pro-Canada or pro-independence.

00:09:19.300 And I thought, isn't that a strange thing?

00:09:21.360 Here it is in 2025, and to say you're pro-Canada in Rocky Mountain House is going to hurt your chances of being elected.

00:09:29.640 Now, they weren't enthusiastic about being pro-independence because they didn't say that, but they realized it was a hot topic that's going to alienate half of the voters one way or the other, so they just chose to ignore it.

00:09:44.780 It's an interesting, I guess, that sort of CYA attitude, you know, filters all the way down to small municipal politics, eh?

00:09:55.380 In a certain way, it's even more here because it's, you know, in Edmonton, have you guys ever met your councillor or your mayor?

00:10:04.600 Of course, no.

00:10:06.080 Of course not.

00:10:06.780 In Rocky Mountain House or Eckville or some of these smaller communities, you know where their mayor lives.

00:10:11.800 You know where your councillor lives.

00:10:13.600 You might have went to school with them.

00:10:15.080 You live in the same small community, and all of a sudden politics, instead of being more friendly, gets to be a more personal level because the personal decisions of the council affect people on a much deeper level.

00:10:29.080 It's a very interesting dynamic, the difference between rural politics and urban politics.

00:10:35.120 Yeah, there isn't that insulation, and I guess if there's disagreements, they become...

00:10:43.420 Yeah, it's right here in our face.

00:10:45.520 In town, like just on a Sunday, it may pop up in the middle of your day.

00:10:51.380 You have nowhere to hide from it in a town of that size.

00:10:57.860 Are you finding...

00:10:59.120 Yes, totally agree.

00:11:00.180 That, so I know Edmonton and Calgary very much, you have a lot of, you can draw some parallels of when it comes to city politics to them adopting a lot of these principles set, the tone set from like, let it be the UN with their sustainable development goals, or the WF with kind of their vision.

00:11:26.360 Let it be kind of the climate side of things, as well as just their smart, trackable, analytical cities, everything's measured, they want to be able to have convenience, but also the monitoring tools for that.

00:11:45.900 So you're in these cities, you're finding a lot of them adopting these ideas.

00:11:51.800 Have you seen that as well in some of these smaller towns?

00:11:56.360 Yes, but in a different way than the major urban centres.

00:12:01.240 A lot of, one of the questions that the candidates were asked was all about, would you withdraw from FCM, the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, which I'm sure is something that got addressed up in Edmonton and in Calgary.

00:12:13.020 I think the rural people tend to love the way things are more than urban people, and they're more resistant to change, whether positive or negative.

00:12:23.460 There's a large portion of the population that wishes that we could go back just to be in a farming community.

00:12:31.220 There are people that are still opposed to oil and gas industry because of how it interrupts agriculture.

00:12:38.780 Agriculture is not going to be the industry that carries us into the rest of the 21st century, right?

00:12:47.020 If we're, if agriculture is the way we're going to do that, we're going to be broke and poor for a really long time.

00:12:52.480 We need to diversify our economics.

00:12:55.240 I know there's a couple of data centres that are very interested in moving into Clearwater County because of the abundance of natural gas.

00:13:02.660 But a major shift like that from the 20th century to the 21st is going to be,

00:13:08.780 quite a shock for a lot of people.

00:13:10.980 Even though it's not going to affect them personally in a lot of ways,

00:13:15.360 the transition in the community is a little intimidating to people and overwhelming.

00:13:21.920 I think another issue that really is affecting people here is the concerns about the UNDRIP, right?

00:13:28.940 The United Nations Declaration on Indigenous Peoples, on the rights of Indigenous Peoples.

00:13:35.100 We can look at the land claims issue that came up in BC and Richmond where people got a notification that they might be losing their homes because it's traditional First Nations land.

00:13:47.300 And that is a real pressing concern for people here in rural Alberta as well, because, you know, we, this land did used to be used by First Nations people.

00:13:58.680 And it's a growing concern.

00:14:00.660 And once again, that's pushed by the centralized authority called the United Nations.

00:14:04.880 And it's filtering down to our local communities one decision at a time.

00:14:09.520 And people just don't know how to stand up and argue against the centralized authority like that.

00:14:17.560 And it takes a lot of time, a lot of people, and a lot of pressure to turn that around.

00:14:23.080 Is it your impression that people feel, people in smaller communities, maybe feel not powerless, but do they feel like, and I'm trying to put myself in that position, like, do you feel like sometimes like the world just kind of happens to you?

00:14:42.160 Or, you know, they feel like they're, you know, they feel like they're, they're sort of blown about as the, as the globalists do, or do they, do people feel empowered in any sort of way to affect some, either some resistance or some influence on, on these things?

00:14:55.120 I'm going to say, I'm going to sit on the fence.

00:14:57.600 It's both.

00:14:58.500 It's both.

00:15:00.020 One thing I know about my mindset is being a rancher.

00:15:03.840 You know, your whole mindset is to plant your seeds and then you wait for it to rain.

00:15:12.160 And there's nothing you can do to change the weather.

00:15:15.040 No carbon tax is going to make it rain.

00:15:18.000 In so many rural people, the, the, the, the mindset, the way we've been raised, the way we've lived for our entire lives is you do the work and you wait.

00:15:27.860 You can't make a difference.

00:15:29.620 But I think that mindset is slowly changing because in rural communities, if you can get a group of 20 people, you can control the politics of an entire municipality.

00:15:43.180 Whereas 20 people in Edmonton is, is nothing.

00:15:46.020 You need thousands of people to put pressure, but a small organized group of people who have a common vision can make a lot of good or a lot of bad.

00:15:56.640 If you have the wrong people doing it, yeah, the consequences are greater.

00:16:01.340 The, the, the effect is, uh, um, the individual effect that a person has in a smaller group like that is, is more consequential, isn't it?

00:16:10.980 Yes.

00:16:12.380 Yes.

00:16:12.900 But it's that mindset of, of thinking that if we just do the little bit that we need to do, the minimum we need to do, and then we sit back, something will happen that makes things happen.

00:16:26.100 And it was hard for me to come to that belief that instead of just waiting for the rain, I need to be involved and make it rain so that things happen.

00:16:34.820 And that's a message that many rural people are finally waking up to that by getting off the couch, going to a few meetings, you can really affect change for the better.

00:16:47.160 One question I had is, uh, in your, in your ranching, it seems like as a regenerative rancher, you are going against the system by nature.

00:16:59.060 When did that mindset, uh, like when, when did you, has, has that been held throughout the family or is that something you shifted and you kind of, uh, started implementing, uh, a little bit later down the, down the lineage?

00:17:15.480 That's an excellent question.

00:17:18.040 I think part of it is in my blood.

00:17:20.180 Like when my great, great grandfather was in South Dakota, uh, he and his sons moved up north to Alberta in 1908 because they thought there was too much government in South Dakota in 1908.

00:17:32.260 So when they came up here, the only sign of government was the survey stake in the ground that told them where their homestead was.

00:17:39.760 I've always, I guess for me, I like to solve the problem.

00:17:45.480 Um, and there are so many circumstances where the government just tries to kick the can down the road.

00:17:51.740 We'll, we'll let the next people solve it because this is too hard.

00:17:55.660 There's no easy solution.

00:17:56.820 We'll tick off too many people.

00:17:58.680 If I ran my business like that, if I ran my farm like that, it'd be in chaos.

00:18:03.780 It'd be an utter destruction.

00:18:05.300 If I just put a bandaid on everything that wasn't working, it would fall apart.

00:18:10.560 And that is what's happening with our government on all levels.

00:18:13.760 Instead of actually thinking hard about the issue and solving the problem, they just put the bandaid on it and kick it down, whether for one year, two year, four years, or 10 years to let the next people fix it.

00:18:25.740 Yeah, it's a, it's a fundamental problem that arises in, uh, in any democracy that gets, you know, as big as, as a modern nation state where you have, um, people who seemingly, you know, they, they get elected on these grand promises of the, the change they're going to bring and the benefits they're going to bring to their society.

00:18:45.100 And really what it ends up changing into very, very quickly is what do I need to say in order to just get reelected so I can have another term?

00:18:53.040 Cause they get comfortable, right?

00:18:54.220 They don't, uh, they don't want to rock the boat anymore.

00:18:56.400 And I don't think that kind of stuff flies at the, uh, the more, uh, like we were saying earlier, the, the more consequential your individual actions get at a community level, you can't, you can't behave like that.

00:19:07.860 Right.

00:19:08.220 And if you think of most, most councils, let's like with seven people, it's a consensus decision.

00:19:14.940 You need to have four votes out of seven.

00:19:17.880 So, you know, just think of a situation where on a council of seven, you've got one guy who's absolutely right.

00:19:25.240 One person who's absolutely wrong.

00:19:28.140 And then five people in the middle, and you have to come to a consensus that everyone agrees with and gets voted on.

00:19:35.500 And then if you're the poor Reeve, you have to go out and explain it to the community when you might know it's the wrong solution, but it's the consensus.

00:19:45.700 Right.

00:19:45.940 And when you look at Edmonton with the size of, of the cabinet now, it's the same thing.

00:19:51.920 They're coming up to a consensus decision that most of them agree on.

00:19:56.160 And just because it's consensus, it's not the right thing to do.

00:20:01.480 It's not the best solution.

00:20:03.160 It's the best compromise solution, which really never fix as anything.

00:20:09.580 It all depends where that decision making is coming from.

00:20:12.440 And, um, sometimes you have, there's hubris that goes along with a lot of these government decisions where, um, sometimes they're stuck in spreadsheets, they're stuck in numbers.

00:20:22.840 And they feel that they're trusting data that is often decoupled from the actual system.

00:20:29.260 Right.

00:20:29.560 And the ground bubble, um, I think you can draw a parallel to the government trying to solve problems with how maybe, um, large agriculture is, is run currently right now.

00:20:43.660 You have massive chemical interventions.

00:20:47.460 You have like, okay, well, to grow something, we, we have to inject, uh, we, we have to fertilize everything.

00:20:55.760 Everything's just a top-down intervention, which takes you farther away from the natural system.

00:21:01.700 So it's not aligning with nature.

00:21:04.260 It's not aligning with kind of what would emerge naturally.

00:21:08.240 It is fighting it at every step of the way.

00:21:10.860 And perhaps you can get good results for a little while, but you're not going to get good soil quality doing that.

00:21:17.600 And from a government level, you're not going to get happy functioning people.

00:21:23.160 You're not going to have a healthy relationship with money.

00:21:26.240 If you just keep on pumping into a system, which you're fundamentally eroding from the ground up.

00:21:33.760 100% agree.

00:21:35.920 So much of this, the current struggle in agriculture comes from government supporting the wrong thing.

00:21:42.800 Um, I think right now land in our area, it's probably cheap compared to a, the farther you get away from highway two corridor or sorry, the queen Elizabeth two corridor land prices decrease, right?

00:22:00.140 And like a quarter section a year and a half ago sold for $1.1 million for 160 acres.

00:22:06.880 So whoever bought that, you can't make enough money on that quarter section.

00:22:13.060 I don't care what you're growing.

00:22:14.820 You can't make enough to pay the interest payments, right?

00:22:18.700 So you're, you're hurting your cashflow, but because the way the system is, so many of these big farmers have to expand and expand and expand just to keep the cashflow going through the system to keep the banks happy.

00:22:32.800 There is no way based on our current system that small farms like mine are going to be surviving for another hundred years.

00:22:41.140 I've always looked at it.

00:22:42.400 A farmer should look to improve his, his land 1% every year, right?

00:22:47.560 So you just do smarter, buy some new equipment, slow improvement over time.

00:22:51.720 But because of what the federal government is doing with the money supply and this massive inflation, if you do that, you eventually are going to run out of cash and go broke.

00:23:02.920 So the system itself is just against any small local producers trying to make a go at it.

00:23:08.720 If you were to look at the numbers of people who were direct marketing 30 years ago, when we started, um, maybe 5% of people left.

00:23:19.420 It just is too much work and there's not enough money in it, even with the high beef prices now to make it a legitimate business.

00:23:26.620 It's a job.

00:23:27.720 It's not a business that you can sell off to someone else because of the great profit margins in it.

00:23:31.920 Do you, forgive my ignorance here, Tim, but do you find then because of the, uh, the increase in, in land costs in those, in, in the areas you're talking about, do you, are you seeing that, um, fewer and fewer, uh, farmers and people looking to get into farming or to expand farms?

00:23:53.280 Uh, you're, you're, you're getting fewer people doing that and more people who, uh, already, you know, have wealth or come from money, buying up those lots to turn into like pleasure properties.

00:24:03.680 Like it just acreages and stuff like nonproductive land.

00:24:06.960 Um, one of the things we've noticed is people, at least in Clearwater County is people coming out from Toronto and Vancouver.

00:24:14.500 They can sell their little house in Toronto for a lot of money, come out here, buy a whole quarter section with a much bigger house.

00:24:22.340 And still have enough money left over to buy a brand new $120,000 truck and a 70,000 RV trailer to pull behind it.

00:24:31.200 So financially for them, it makes a lot of sense, but it drives up the prices for everyone here trying to make an actual living off the land.

00:24:39.560 Yeah.

00:24:40.480 Yeah.

00:24:40.680 And they're not, they're not farming that land.

00:24:42.480 So that's, that's less land for guys like you to be able to actually make use of.

00:24:46.620 Yes.

00:24:48.640 Huh.

00:24:49.120 This is where you're also seeing a lot of houses sold where it's used to be that whole section was being farmed.

00:24:57.840 It was owned and farmed by that family.

00:24:59.300 And now the house is being sold and then the land is sold off or rented and it's, it's not being maintained in the family as well.

00:25:06.160 So you're, you're losing these generations and perhaps there's a part, part of that is tied into how maybe anything blue collar farming, anything that wasn't a university based like path for somebody to go down.

00:25:24.180 So that was demonized as lesser than, um, as a career choice.

00:25:28.820 And I wondered if some of these skills are going to be lost, if not for a revival, um, a passion with like, you, you kind of need the next generation to be passionate about farming or you're not going to have any regenerative farms.

00:25:47.660 It's all just going to be cookie cutter, top down, a very, uh, equipment and kind of bureaucratic heavy.

00:25:58.000 It's all going to be corn.

00:25:59.620 Yeah.

00:25:59.760 Well, there's a farmer, uh, I remember reading the story in the Western producer a few years ago, he was farming 20,000 acres in Saskatchewan.

00:26:09.100 He was financed to the hilt.

00:26:11.800 He was stressed because of all his money worries.

00:26:15.040 So a Chinese corporation bought him out, hired him as the manager, and he can do what he loves, which is the farming.

00:26:22.700 And he lets them worry about the money and the financing.

00:26:25.540 The problem, the big problem is that generational knowledge that he had that came from his dad and his grandfather and his great grandfather is all going to be gone because there is absolutely no guarantee that his son is going to become that farm manager.

00:26:41.860 The son's going to get some other job.

00:26:43.880 The son's going to remember the tremendous stress the dad lived with when he was farming.

00:26:48.280 And he's going to go get a job in the city where at five o'clock at the end of the day, you're done.

00:26:53.580 Farming is a lifestyle, and if you don't love it, it's hell on earth.

00:26:59.220 And if you love it, it's the greatest thing you could ever do.

00:27:03.540 Yeah.

00:27:04.020 And now in the meantime, then when that family's line, uh, isn't, decides they no longer want to be involved in farming, well, there's another piece of land lost to a, a foreign interest that further erodes.

00:27:15.820 So like whatever you think personally about whoever, you know, whatever nationality owns the land doesn't really matter if it's not a Canadian and it's not a, uh, you know, an old stock kind of somebody who's been here and worked the land for generations.

00:27:28.220 It's that, that, that changes a community that changes, it just doesn't feel quite right.

00:27:32.840 Does it?

00:27:33.260 Absolutely.

00:27:35.380 Farming in a sense is, uh, especially at like a family, like if you own the land, work it, and you have your family involved, you pretty, that's pretty much the ultimate expression of personal responsibility.

00:27:49.680 Like everything on there is just dependent on you making it happen and, and it takes that constant involvement, that constant work.

00:28:00.300 You can't just defer it to somebody else.

00:28:03.240 It is, it's the person they're working that is responsible.

00:28:08.420 Right.

00:28:08.740 Um, and I, I feel like that's an attitude shared by many independent supporters.

00:28:14.000 Um, my bigger question behind this is, uh, when, when did you realize that Alberta would be better off as an independent country or as not a part of Canada anymore?

00:28:32.660 I've always considered myself an Albertan before Canadian, but that didn't, that does not mean I've always been a, as Separatist.

00:28:43.140 Is that the word we're using tonight?

00:28:45.260 Nationalist?

00:28:45.920 Uh, I feel like independent supporter.

00:28:48.620 I've been leaning towards that.

00:28:50.260 We've used a Sovereignist before that has just kind of more sophisticated connotation.

00:28:55.400 I actually like the, the nationalist because we're building a nation.

00:28:59.540 Yeah.

00:28:59.780 But then I've had to talk with a few people who's like, it sounds like you're a white nationalist, so you just won't avoid that.

00:29:06.320 Which is terrible.

00:29:07.060 And you're like, did I say white before or did I say Alberta?

00:29:09.920 Yeah, the, the other issue, both nationalist and Sovereignist, um, they're still muddy terms in the sense that the Sovereignist could be somebody trying to advocate for Canadian sovereignty.

00:29:22.920 It doesn't, um, it doesn't relate to the provincial level or like Alberta itself.

00:29:28.620 And then also in a way, yeah, we are nation building, but the term nationalist is generally like, well, it's, somebody will default and assume you're talking about the Canada's identity first, more so than, than Alberta's identity.

00:29:44.960 Uh, but I think separatist is still used kind of in a negative sense.

00:29:51.440 So I've been leaning towards independence.

00:29:53.220 Okay.

00:29:53.780 Advocate, supporter, et cetera.

00:29:55.920 Um, and that's something I've changed just in my language, but it took a little while.

00:30:01.160 Um. 0.70

00:30:02.780 It's so silly, hey? 0.82

00:30:03.920 Yeah. 0.96

00:30:04.280 We're fighting over the words, right?

00:30:05.840 Tim, answer the question at your, at your leisure.

00:30:07.760 The, um.

00:30:08.340 Call yourself whatever you want.

00:30:09.660 So, like I said, I've always been a proud Albertan, but it's really probably the last two years that really made me think that there is no solution if we decide to stay in Canada.

00:30:21.720 Or if we, if the people of Alberta choose to stay in Canada, there will be no solutions to the problems that we have.

00:30:29.260 In fact, I believe things are going to get worse if we stay in Canada.

00:30:32.640 We've got the federal government pushing in their increased censorship.

00:30:35.360 We've got them changing, we've got the RCMP changing a rule that makes legal gun owners now criminals.

00:30:45.280 So they didn't change anything they did, but the, and it's not even a law.

00:30:50.360 It's a, it's a regulation that the RCMP commissioner made and that turns people into criminals.

00:30:57.360 I, I made a list of questions.

00:30:59.400 I, I put this on my sub stack and it was questions to ask over Thanksgiving a month ago, just if the conversation gets dulled, just ask your, ask your Canadian supporter friend, these questions.

00:31:12.500 And the first one was, do you support having your vote in Alberta be worth only 66% of what a vote in the Maritimes is worth?

00:31:22.920 I asked, what do you think about Senate, your vote, your Senate seat here in Alberta is worth less than a Senate seat in Ontario, Quebec, or the Maritimes.

00:31:37.860 What about the Supreme Court?

00:31:40.380 There are three Supreme Court justices from Ontario, three from Quebec, and then three spread out the rest of the country.

00:31:46.460 So do you have any pride, any dignity in your heart to stand up for yourself and say, Hey, at a bare minimum, my vote, my say should be equal to everyone across this country.

00:32:00.440 And right now it's not.

00:32:02.640 And the, and I don't believe there's a way to change that.

00:32:06.680 There's no benefit to the people of Ontario or Quebec or the Maritimes to give up any of the power they have so we can take what's equally ours.

00:32:19.800 And to have it change, that's a, that's a difficult thing to change.

00:32:24.480 It requires the East to cooperate to change. 0.95

00:32:26.900 So it's not, it's not going to happen very easily.

00:32:30.660 But any other change that Danielle Smith is pushing for is only a policy change and it's negotiated.

00:32:37.400 And all it takes is for the next prime minister to think differently and everything's rolled back right to where we are.

00:32:44.020 We have a constitutional problem, not a policy problem.

00:32:47.680 And we have to fix the big issue.

00:32:51.880 And that's how Alberta interacts with the rest of the country. 0.98

00:32:56.100 And it isn't good.

00:32:57.220 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:00.280 I would say that that's such an important question to, you know, to ask people if they even think about what their vote is actually worth at the end of the day at a federal level.

00:33:09.900 Cause I would, I would venture a guess that most never think about it.

00:33:13.200 Most just think, Hey, you know, I voted for this person in my riding and he either won or she either lost or whatever.

00:33:20.840 And then if they, if they see that their riding is represented by a member of their team, then great.

00:33:26.540 Or if it's a member of the opposite team, then boo, you know, they, that's kind of where the thinking ends, I think for a lot of people, because at least in my experience and, you know, James and I are, we, we describe ourselves to, to guests that don't know us, you know, as well as, um, as recovering liberals.

00:33:41.740 And, um, we, uh, you know, we, a lot of our family members and our friends are all, you know, sort of, they haven't necessarily followed us in this journey, um, post COVID.

00:33:53.260 And, um, and so, you know, I, I would say that the, at least with the people that we're most familiar with, they tend to view themselves as more of a member of a, of an international community or a member of a, of an interest group of some type, or they're, you know, they identify with a, some sort of cause more than they identify with, um, their own national interests.

00:34:17.040 And so when people like us, you know, start talking about, um, these bigger nationalist causes, they sort of view that as a threat to what they perceive as a status quo, I think.

00:34:27.140 And that's why there's that sort of visceral gut reaction, uh, to oppose it, even if we're all actually trying to work in each other's best interests and it would actually be in their best interest.

00:34:39.460 The, the biggest problem we have right now for the independence movement is that things are okay.

00:34:44.960 Things are okay.

00:34:47.240 You know, I can go to the grocery store.

00:34:49.340 I, I can get financing for the new car.

00:34:52.580 Um, I might not be able to afford a house, but you know, I'm sure Carney will fix that in the future.

00:34:57.240 Things are okay.

00:34:59.280 And I look into the future and I think things are not going to be okay.

00:35:04.880 Every day we go farther down the same path, things are steadily going to get worse and worse.

00:35:09.660 I said, I've got, I've got eight kids.

00:35:11.720 Well, for my sons to look at getting a good enough job that they can afford to save a down payment so they can have a house by four, by the time they're 40 is just about impossible.

00:35:24.900 And that's the same for millions of people across this country.

00:35:29.780 And unless someone has the courage to stand up and say, we need to change some of these things so that we can all have a better future, things are just going to get worse.

00:35:40.520 We have to choose either to have the courage to change or just sit back home and watch Netflix until the end of the world.

00:35:48.500 And I'm not comfortable sitting back and watching Netflix.

00:35:51.420 I've, I've got a lot invested in my family, in my province, and we have to act like the future is important to us.

00:36:00.880 We actually have to care about the future.

00:36:03.040 So we act on it.

00:36:04.020 But it's also agreeing on what that action actually is, because I feel like we have decades of people, they've been told that the solution is that the government has to be the architect and fix these problems.

00:36:24.020 It's not, in a way, it's actually disempowering at an individual level.

00:36:32.100 And I feel like it's gone hand in hand with a sense of demoralization.

00:36:36.660 As things get worse, it's like things are bad, things are bad, people are struggling.

00:36:43.260 And the government's creating the problem that only government can solve.

00:36:48.040 And people are voting and they're begging for like, well, yeah, I will, I'll take my little rebate check.

00:36:54.540 They're helping us, they're giving us money, not realizing like, well, where does that wealth come from?

00:36:59.720 Like, what is, like, whose money is that?

00:37:04.620 It's not the government's money, it's taxpayers' money.

00:37:06.620 So where does that taxpayer money come from?

00:37:08.640 And if you distort our sense of what money is worth, you start, people can't even properly navigate, they can't make good long-term decisions.

00:37:22.940 They're in a short-time preference.

00:37:24.760 Very much, they're looking just what the next little thing in front of them is.

00:37:29.260 And I feel like this is one of the larger hurdles with Alberta independence is helping to reframe the discussion.

00:37:37.280 It's, it can't be all doom and gloom.

00:37:39.560 Has to be like, here's, here's what's fundamentally broken.

00:37:44.480 Here's what we can do about it from an advocacy standpoint with the referendum and pushing towards independence.

00:37:51.200 But also, here's how you can strengthen yourself, strengthen your family, strengthen your community.

00:37:56.260 It has to be, you, you need that hope and self-empowerment coupled together, or it's just a angry shouting at the clouds kind of movement.

00:38:07.380 Like, it needs to be coupled with that action.

00:38:11.960 So I went to the I Am Alberta rally.

00:38:15.960 I brought three of my kids with me.

00:38:18.080 And we had a really good discussion after about what they, what they thought of the speakers.

00:38:25.580 And my one son said, it was really angry.

00:38:29.800 And I thought, you know, I thought the speakers were pretty positive because I've heard angry independent speakers before.

00:38:36.600 I didn't find that event to be overly negative.

00:38:40.140 I'd say it was honest, which is kind of negative, but he was, he made the comment that if we want to reach the young people of the province, we can't just be the F Kearney and F Trudeau crowd.

00:38:54.800 We need to have that hopeful vision of the future and let these young people know that the best way for them to have the best life possible is by being more sovereign, like we discussed earlier, and being more responsible for your own lives.

00:39:14.860 Because if you let someone else run your life, they're going to run it for their benefit, not yours.

00:39:19.960 That's such a good point.

00:39:22.500 And that's, and that's why, um, that's why young people need to be involved in the direction of this movement, because we've, we've noted similar things before, even, you know, same as you, like, you know, we're, we're able to kind of discern the tone of, you know, when somebody is speaking about a, you know, a politically contentious issue, but maybe, uh, you know, an 18, 19, 20 year old, maybe they're not really.

00:39:45.160 And, and their vote is going to count in this referendum.

00:39:47.480 So maybe if, if they're only exposed to the light, you know, they've been kind of airdropped into this, uh, the situation where, and they don't have the, you know, decades of working experience and seeing how the economy ebbs and flows and seeing how the social constitution of your community has so radically shifted in, in, you know, recent years.

00:40:06.480 And like, they don't really, all their sort of, they only know what they know.

00:40:10.160 And, and I've, I've spoken with people before too, who are like, oh, you know, these guys are rednecks. 0.70

00:40:15.180 These guys are just, you know, these are, uh, you know, far right extremists or whatever.

00:40:19.500 And it's like, actually, if you're there, you would know, like, these are very, very normal, well-adjusted people, very nice, very kind without fail.

00:40:28.260 Um, they, people say the same thing that you just did, you know, we're in this for the future.

00:40:32.400 Like we're, we're, we're, we're forward looking where this is not about me.

00:40:36.760 This is about what I'm going to leave for my children and grandchildren.

00:40:40.140 And that's a very, very, uh, positive and benevolent thing.

00:40:45.060 And so it's, it's difficult to be passionate about.

00:40:48.760 So I struggle with this myself, it's difficult to be passionate about something without coming across as frustrated or angry.

00:40:54.960 Um, and so, yeah, that, that's such an important point.

00:40:58.060 That's, um, that's something that we could, we could note for this movement, I think.

00:41:02.200 See that the independence movement has to have a new story.

00:41:06.780 Right.

00:41:07.760 Um, for years I, I was trying to sell expensive organic meat to people at a farmer's market.

00:41:14.240 So I read many, many books on marketing.

00:41:16.980 Uh, Seth Godin was very inspirational to me.

00:41:20.080 And his big thing is you have to tell a good story.

00:41:22.700 You have to tell a story that resonates with people.

00:41:24.960 I think the story that's being told by the independence movement has probably reached all the people who were open to hearing that story.

00:41:34.820 And we need to find a new story that's going to bring in the next group of people.

00:41:40.380 And I think it has to focus in on a better future for your kids, not just F Trudeau and F Carney.

00:41:46.380 Uh, and it's, it's hard when you don't have a lot of money behind your movement.

00:41:51.400 It takes a lot of money to get a message out in this digital economy.

00:41:55.760 Uh, but it's, it's what we have to try to do.

00:41:58.960 And honestly, if you have a good story, it should share itself and not take a lot of money to be shared.

00:42:07.820 Yeah, there's, sorry, James, just one final thought on that.

00:42:10.780 In addition to the, to the, having a good story behind it, you also have to be, um, we also have to be cognizant of the fact that there's a lot of defeatism on, even with people who are on our side.

00:42:22.940 I personally know, you know, a few people who are, you know, would describe themselves as fairly conservative, fairly, uh, independent people who, um, you know, would not be opposed to, to such an idea, but they'll say things like, uh, you know, it'll never happen in my lifetime.

00:42:37.360 Or this is, you know, this is a pie in the sky kind of thing.

00:42:40.000 Like we can only, you know, do what we can with what we can.

00:42:42.780 And it's like, yeah, like maybe with that attitude, but definitely not how, you know, that you can just do things, you know, if you just really want it, you can just do things in this world.

00:42:50.960 So we got to, we got to overcome that hurdle too.

00:42:53.880 Yeah.

00:42:54.360 And, and part of this is, I would love to highlight, and we'll see if we can get, uh, get some more conversations.

00:43:02.240 Uh, we, at the event, at the rally, we tried to, we had our sign, uh, independence is best for all, for all Albertans, change our minds.

00:43:12.800 Um, so yeah, we had our sign and we didn't get anybody there who were like pretty much everybody were there with signs wearing blue and everybody agreed with us.

00:43:26.680 So there was no mind changing needed, but I, I feel like some conversations with people that don't agree to get outside of this echo chamber will be actually very, very important.

00:43:38.760 Um, partially to unpack what people believe in, why not being judgmental about them holding those opinions.

00:43:48.220 Cause I feel like a lot of the time they're existing in a different informational landscape, their diet of information is different than ours.

00:43:56.920 They watch different screens.

00:43:58.100 Or may, yeah, different screens, they have a completely different, they're seeing a completely different world.

00:44:04.580 And I, I feel like they haven't engaged with some of these ideas in the way that we have.

00:44:10.920 Um, and I, I guess maybe this is where Mike and I do have a strength of, since we used to be left leaning and we used to think in certain ways and we weren't full on collectivist by any means.

00:44:25.160 But we, we never had blue hair, never had blue hair.

00:44:27.660 There's still time.

00:44:28.620 There's still time guys.

00:44:29.460 Yeah, the, uh, we, since we've had some, some of that mindsets and, or been in these circles, I, I feel like we can understand that perspective a little bit because we've had to step away from it.

00:44:45.360 So if you're going to get a lot of the people in the middle on the fence, um, there has to be more conversations, there has to be culture shift as well.

00:44:55.640 There needs to be honest conversations and non-judgment for somebody having the wrong opinion, um, or like having those opinions. 0.97

00:45:06.320 If they haven't bought on for Alberta independence, I feel like there is a tendency on the right and it can just be sometimes just as tribal as the left that, well, somebody may believe something and you're like, yeah, there's just a dumb leftist. 0.93

00:45:20.380 And they may be misguided.

00:45:22.940 Like we, we're not going to win any more votes.

00:45:25.900 We're not going to win any more hearts by demonizing those ideas.

00:45:31.220 Because there's obviously some people that are so far entrenched, uh, and there's activist level that you won't convince them they're ideologically entrenched at that point.

00:45:42.740 But I also feel there's a good range of people who are, they believe things partially because it's the compassionate thing to believe.

00:45:52.940 And maybe let's put that in quotations, they feel like it's the compassionate thing, like, well, we need more immigration because these people are looking for a better life and we got to extend our help.

00:46:03.680 And, uh, maybe a little bit of our, like tax dollars should go to helping them out.

00:46:08.880 They're struggling.

00:46:10.160 And then you go down this logical train of thought of like, well, how much does that compassion scale?

00:46:17.300 Can we double that compassion?

00:46:19.700 Can we 10 X that compassion?

00:46:21.760 How many people can be, be compassionate for all at once?

00:46:26.160 And you see that some of these things come from a great place, feels great on the inside, and now get a little bit more uncomfortable when they're forced to contest with the actual consequences of, of some of these ideas pushed to their kind of logical conclusion.

00:46:43.900 So it's gonna, it's gonna take a lot of conversations.

00:46:46.520 A lot of, a lot of talking is gonna have to be had in the next.

00:46:50.480 Well, I, I guess a year, 12 months, let's say, until we have a referendum.

00:46:55.360 And it sounds like it might come up sooner than later.

00:47:00.120 Um, partially because you had the forever Canada petition, which I feel like accidentally accelerated the referendum process.

00:47:10.980 Yes.

00:47:11.740 Old Tommy L, eh?

00:47:14.940 So, um, what is your, uh, maybe, I don't know, this is a huge question, but what is your feeling since, since attending, uh, the I am Alberta event on this week, uh, this, this last weekend?

00:47:26.380 Do you, did you come away feeling fairly positive?

00:47:29.980 Did you come away with more questions than answers?

00:47:32.180 Did you, what, what was your general, uh, feel on the whole thing?

00:47:35.320 My first thought after the rally was over was that's a good start.

00:47:40.360 Right.

00:47:40.820 If there were 12,000 people there, you know, we need a hundred times that to even have a chance.

00:47:47.940 So if you can imagine every person there needs to find a hundred people and convince them, and even that probably isn't gonna be enough.

00:47:55.540 We got to get up to 1.8 million, um, that was my first thought.

00:48:00.800 We've got such a huge undertaking ahead of us.

00:48:05.480 It's gonna take all of my effort and all of your effort if we want to have a chance of getting this done.

00:48:13.460 But I firmly believe we have to do that because the alternative is not very good for my family or your family or any family in Alberta.

00:48:24.100 So many of those people who signed the forever Canada petition, they just looked out their windows and said, oh yeah, everything looks okay.

00:48:32.400 And like we discussed earlier, it's not okay.

00:48:35.740 And so how do we tell them things aren't okay without looking all super negative and pessimistic and, you know, being Eeyore and having a cloud over our head that's raining all the time.

00:48:46.160 So we have to get that new story.

00:48:48.800 We have to get that hopeful vision to entice people to join this, this independence train.

00:48:55.940 I think we need to focus on young people.

00:48:58.780 This is their future.

00:49:00.340 And if it's just a bunch of 50 plus people, 50 year old plus people trying to do this, it's gonna fail.

00:49:09.760 We have to talk to all these individual groups.

00:49:12.400 We have to talk to different ethnic groups that live in the province and explain to them how it's better for them to join this train.

00:49:21.000 That's another thing that, that sort of works against, uh, any sort of movement like this, where you've got, um, you know, people with a little bit of life experience who have seen, you know, they've been in the workforce for a while.

00:49:32.780 They see, you know, the power of their dollar shrinking.

00:49:35.240 They see, um, you know, their, their influence in their communities shrinking.

00:49:39.320 And then you have people who, who haven't experienced that.

00:49:42.560 I feel like it's one of those things.

00:49:44.100 If you don't know, if you haven't felt the shift, it doesn't hit you as hard and you maybe don't feel as empowered or you don't feel that same sense of, um, uh, kind of, uh, calling to, to, you know, recover something that was lost from you.

00:49:59.020 You know, um, so that's something that's going to be a challenge to try and impart on people is that, um, like you don't know how good it could be.

00:50:07.080 Yeah.

00:50:07.340 You know, it's kind of like you have a crappy girlfriend, but you kind of like her and, but you don't want to take the risk to break up with her so you can find a new one.

00:50:16.940 Right.

00:50:17.560 Yeah.

00:50:17.900 You don't want to be alone.

00:50:18.980 Exactly.

00:50:20.360 Yeah.

00:50:22.460 Well, um, Tim, I think, uh, I think we've probably had you for about an hour here just to, uh, um, just to be respectful of your time.

00:50:28.920 I had, uh, one kind of, uh, not so serious questions, but maybe we'll let James, uh, close her off here with any final questions.

00:50:35.980 Um, you've got eight kids in that house years and you were trying to ensure that there's another generation to pick up farming.

00:50:45.840 How many of your kids want to take on the farm?

00:50:48.920 Surely you've got to have at least one.

00:50:50.660 Oh, that's a good question.

00:50:51.640 I've always told my kids, this might be a work camp, but it's not a prison camp.

00:50:55.520 So you can leave anytime you want.

00:50:58.920 Um, uh, my oldest son is 30 and my youngest child is a son and he's 15.

00:51:09.120 Uh, they all have been a tremendous asset to the farm in different ways.

00:51:15.680 When you have eight kids, you realize how different each and every single one of them is.

00:51:21.100 They have different skills.

00:51:22.220 I look at all my kids and I can honestly say they're better than me in one area, at least, which is what you want as a dad.

00:51:29.660 You want your kids to be better than you.

00:51:31.420 Um, but I think it, I've got a couple of sons who are interested in doing this.

00:51:39.160 I've always encouraged them to get off the farm, go get a, some education, have learned some skills.

00:51:47.180 And then when you've gone out to the world, if you choose to come back and farm because you want to farm, that's the most important thing.

00:51:55.640 You only get one life to live.

00:51:58.700 You don't have a redo button.

00:52:02.140 There's no cheat codes.

00:52:04.240 And so go out, live life, enjoy it.

00:52:07.840 And then if this lifestyle is what you want for your family, come back and we'll find a place for you.

00:52:17.460 That's a really healthy way of looking at it.

00:52:19.360 You said something earlier that was a really healthy way of looking at things too, that maybe you, you just, you take for granted being on a farm and seeing that.

00:52:26.200 But, uh, in the city, we could use, we could use that, um, uh, that mindset where you, you say, you know, you, you plant your seeds and then you kind of wait, you know, you can't control the weather, you know?

00:52:37.020 And that's that general idea of you, you do what you can, you do what's in your power and you don't stress and worry about the stuff that you can't.

00:52:42.920 That's a, that's a, that's some deep psychology there.

00:52:46.240 Now, James, you, you take her, I've been Bogart in the mic.

00:52:49.580 No, it's, uh, we bounce back and forth.

00:52:51.860 That's what we do is the, uh, yeah, very much that stoic mindset of, uh, like control the things within your control.

00:52:58.400 And you, if you can't control it, then you, you can't put that emotion into it because that's not something you can, you can change.

00:53:05.640 So I feel like if the movement is a little bit stoic at times, like if there's a balance between outlining where things are failing or where, like what's wrong with the system, having that hope, but also having that like clear head and that like calm, grounded, uh, sense of stoicism.

00:53:30.780 I, I feel like that might help as well.

00:53:33.140 Um, so, well, I guess to finish it off, any, anything that we, we didn't cover today that you'd like to, you know, that you wish we asked or?

00:53:46.720 The one thing that's coming to my mind here is the chain hat, the change has to start right here in our hearts and it sounds kind of hokey, but no matter what happens in the future, if you become a better man or woman through this fight for independence, you've won.

00:54:03.600 And if there's a million people who become better people because of this fight for independence, we will win that bigger battle.

00:54:13.960 But if we focus on the externals, if we focus on the big picture, instead of doing what's necessary for us to improve our lives right here in our homes and in our local communities, if we can do that, we will change the world.

00:54:26.860 And we don't know how this story is going to end.

00:54:31.380 That's the most exciting part about this.

00:54:33.260 We are in about chapter three in the story of Alberta and it's the action of myself and you two and 2 million of my closest friends.

00:54:42.700 They're going to finish writing this chapter so we can go on to a new one, right?

00:54:47.680 The future has not been written.

00:54:49.800 And I find that, um, very exciting.

00:54:54.360 So I'm working to write a better future.

00:54:57.060 That's the kind of positivity we need in this movement, eh?

00:55:01.700 100%.

00:55:02.140 Well, thanks so much, Tim.

00:55:04.680 Um, hey, for our, uh, our listeners, uh, where can people find you, uh, uh, online or, or do you, um, you have, uh, speaking engagements coming up, anything like that?

00:55:14.680 I've got one speaking engagement in T's in a couple of weeks.

00:55:17.660 The best place to get more information is to go to my sub stack, timhoven.com.

00:55:22.420 Um, I try to write as much as I can and get a few videos up, but life sometimes gets ahold of me.

00:55:28.780 Um, and if you're interested in regenerative organic beef, you could check out the family website, hovenfarms.com.

00:55:35.400 I'll let everyone know we're sold out on just about everything except our ground beef right now until the new year.

00:55:40.920 So if you want some ground beef.

00:55:42.940 That's a good problem to have.

00:55:45.840 Sounds good.

00:55:46.500 Well, you're, you're talking to two, uh, real heavy ground beef eaters.

00:55:50.600 So that's good.

00:55:51.260 That's good to know.

00:55:52.220 Uh, Mr. Tim Hoven, thank you so much for your time.

00:55:54.780 Thanks so much for your, for your message, your positivity.

00:55:57.860 Um, you're, you're a fantastic voice for the movement and, uh, we hope to see a lot more of you around and I'm sure we'll speak again in the future.

00:56:06.620 Thank you again for the invite.

00:56:08.340 It was wonderful spending the evening with you guys.

00:56:10.640 Have a good day.

00:56:11.520 Yep.

00:56:12.540 Cheers.

00:56:12.900 Thanks, Tim.

00:56:13.660 Cheers.

00:56:14.360 More of you around and I'm sure we'll speak again in the future.

00:56:17.880 Thank you again for the invite.

00:56:19.120 It was wonderful spending the evening with you guys.

00:56:21.420 Have a good day.

00:56:22.280 Yep.

00:56:23.340 Cheers.

00:56:23.680 Thanks, Tim.

00:56:24.440 Cheers.

00:56:24.700 Cheers.

00:56:36.620 Cheers.

00:56:38.380 Cheers.

00:56:41.240 Cheers.

00:56:42.580 Cheers.

00:56:42.940 Cheers.

00:56:50.660 Cheers.

00:56:50.920 Cheers.

00:56:52.000 Cheers.

00:56:53.060 Cheers.

00:56:54.000 Cheers.

00:56:54.480 Cheers.

00:56:54.580 Cheers.

00:56:54.780 Cheers.

00:56:54.800 Cheers.

00:56:55.940 Cheers.

00:56:56.480 Cheers.

00:56:56.800 Cheers.

00:56:57.680 Cheers.

00:56:57.740 Cheers.

00:56:58.780 Cheers.

00:56:59.820 Cheers.

00:57:00.960 Cheers.

00:57:01.440 Cheers.

00:57:01.540 Cheers.

00:57:02.480 Cheers.

00:57:02.680 Cheers.

00:57:03.380 Cheers.

00:57:03.480 Cheers.

00:57:05.280 Cheers.

00:57:05.820 rible.

The Critical Compass Podcast - November 24, 2025

Farming, Family, & Alberta Independence - Tim Hoven on the Power of Grassroots Movements

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