The Critical Compass Podcast - How Faith & Freedom Will Build a Prosperous Independent Alberta

00:00:00.000 our leaders see themselves as rulers and this is part of the idolatry what our leaders used to have

00:00:07.180 at least generally speaking is an idea that they were a servant leader that it would be a horrific

00:00:13.420 mistake to to bring one of the worst things that the canadian government ever did uh which is to

00:00:21.060 segregate and create essentially a canadian form of apartheid that's what we have in this country

00:00:26.980 Now, this gets sold to Indians as some sort of entitlement.

00:00:32.080 But why should they have a special status?

00:00:34.740 Why should they have a special say in the future of Alberta?

00:00:38.260 You know, the statistics are that they make up about 1% of the Alberta population.

00:00:43.780 And that statistic is dropping very, very quickly with the number of new immigrants who are flooding into this province.

00:00:51.520 if we leave the current state of canada to form a new alberta but we don't form a good society

00:01:00.560 we we would have done nothing in fact we might have done something evil

00:01:21.520 Hi, everyone. Welcome back to The Critical Compass. My name is Mike. This is my co-host, James. And we are very pleased to be joined by Mr. Leighton Gray. He's an Alberta-based constitutional lawyer. He's the host of The Gray Matter podcast and the author of Lies, Laws, and Liberties. Mr. Leighton Gray, thank you for joining us, sir.

00:01:40.440 Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

00:01:42.800 You know, we've been looking forward to this for a while, and we had the opportunity to record you your speech at the Fundamental Truths event in Red Deer about just about two months ago.

00:01:55.240 And, boy, you touched on a lot of great stuff, and that event wasn't particularly focused on the issue of Alberta independence, but that sort of is the topic of the day here in this province, and we've discussed that a lot on this show.

00:02:08.540 So obviously you're going to have a very important perspective on that as an Indigenous Albertan.

00:02:15.980 What has your, as this movement has sort of grown over the past few months and the conversation has become very contentious, what has your experience in this issue sort of looked like?

00:02:29.280 Well, that's a great question.

00:02:31.220 And I kind of have to start at the beginning, which was about four years ago, because I was kind of brought into the ground floor of the Alberta Prosperity Project when Dr. Mode restarted it.

00:02:42.180 And Jeff Rath was there.

00:02:44.400 So was Chris Scott.

00:02:45.740 And back in those days, to much smaller crowds, we traveled all over Alberta talking about Alberta independence.

00:02:52.220 this is around the time when uh you know jason kenney uh was moved out and and daniel smith was

00:02:58.820 becoming our new premier and there was very high hopes about things uh but at that time alberta

00:03:04.660 prosperity project had a different uh focus and this is my way of answering your question

00:03:09.500 the reason why i'm not part of alberta prosperity project anymore at least not a part of their

00:03:14.860 events is because the message that we were uh we were sending to people back in those days is that

00:03:21.980 we needed to have a restore a good society and that you know the people like myself and tanner

00:03:28.540 naday and dr modri and others the message that we were putting out was primarily a christian one

00:03:34.140 saying that look if we're going to have uh an effective rule of law in our country we've got

00:03:38.780 to put god at the head of the state because the rule of law is a biblical principle and it's based

00:03:43.420 upon the idea that you know there is a power there is someone we're answerable to above ourselves

00:03:49.020 and when we don't have that we fall into idolatry and all the abuses of statism that we're living

00:03:54.140 through right now and so we're sort of living through you know albert knox 1935 classic our

00:04:00.860 enemy of the state that's what we're living through in canada and alberta and alberta prosperity

00:04:05.580 project was kind of a recipe an idea to to emerge out of that and and the concept of the referendum

00:04:13.260 through the clarity act uh was the method the practical method that was being uh put forth

00:04:19.340 what i lament although i admire the people and i respect the people who are at the forefront of

00:04:23.420 alberta prosperity right now what i lament is that the arguments that we were making

00:04:29.660 i shouldn't say arguments more justifications which were essentially um cultural

00:04:36.460 and uh and religious and primarily judeo-christian in terms of restoring

00:04:40.940 canada as a traditional liberal democracy remembering that our you know our our national

00:04:46.760 anthem was originally a catholic prayer in french uh but but now what it's being phrased as primarily

00:04:54.780 is in economic terms and um my my criticism of the leadership in doing that i understand why

00:05:02.280 they're doing it they want to cast a very broad tent and so they want to have a more of a secular

00:05:07.540 message. The problem is that although those economic arguments are strong, when you start

00:05:13.380 talking about, you know, the pension plan and equalization and building pipelines and all of

00:05:19.060 that, although that stuff is persuasive, it doesn't really move the needle. And it's important

00:05:24.460 to remember, you know, if you look at the United States revolution, the American revolution, 55 of

00:05:30.220 the 56 men who signed the original declaration were, you know, Bible carrying Christians or at

00:05:36.660 these dais and most of them lost everything they lost their lives these were rich guys mostly under

00:05:42.540 40 very successful dudes and they gave up basically everything they didn't do that because you know

00:05:49.880 uh they they because of you know no taxation without representation they did that because

00:05:55.780 primarily they had this christian ethic uh and they wanted to have they wanted to form a society

00:06:03.060 It was based upon the recipe in the Old Testament for a proper state, which is essentially limited government and people and communities and families taking primary social responsibility for what goes on in society.

00:06:15.620 And when things have gone well in countries like the United States and Canada and Great Britain, that's what our government has looked like.

00:06:23.800 Because as the government grows, we know the individual shrinks.

00:06:27.100 And that's the real problem. That's the tension that's going on right now with globalism and the destruction of individual rights and freedoms.

00:06:36.020 So in a broad sense, I'm very much in favor of Alberta independence.

00:06:40.400 However, and this is kind of my final summing up point,

00:06:44.940 if we leave the current state of Canada to form a new Alberta,

00:06:52.140 but we don't form a good society, we would have done nothing.

00:06:58.000 In fact, we might have done something evil.

00:07:00.520 Because some of the richest societies in history have been the most evil.

00:07:05.620 take the roman empire for example uh and so i think if we're going to form a new state of alberta

00:07:12.420 what i want to see is a state that is um that governs according to some clear vision of the

00:07:20.260 good and from history we have a pretty good idea of what that is and uh and i you know happen to

00:07:25.620 think that we have this uh the highest selling book of all time with 66 uh different chapters

00:07:31.460 or books that tells us how to do that uh so i don't think there's any mystery about how to have

00:07:35.780 a good state but my only concern about the alberta independence movement right now is it looks more

00:07:41.220 like an economic movement than a cultural uh and social and spiritual one and i think it has to be

00:07:49.220 when you're talking about something as fundamental as independence as breaking up a country i think

00:07:55.380 it has to be based upon something deeper uh than just sort of economic and political arguments at

00:08:00.900 least that's my view is there maybe a uh a practical not limit but uh we've seen societies

00:08:10.980 become like a lot of our the western societies become less religious over time yeah is that a

00:08:18.580 harder sell if it's too much focused on religion is that a harder to sell to those who are not

00:08:25.940 who have maybe stepped away from religion where if in a sense can you still have some

00:08:34.340 grounding principles that unify people together maybe we have a shared origin story as we come

00:08:39.860 together as albertans to take a stand and i'm wondering if this is a way for maybe some more

00:08:48.260 people to find God through this movement, but at the same time, looking at it from these

00:08:56.140 very practical concerns, because that convinces a lot of people, is the economic and the practical

00:09:02.080 side of things.

00:09:03.700 Right.

00:09:03.920 I understand why you'd want to, because those arguments touch most people, don't they?

00:09:08.440 And so I do get that.

00:09:10.360 To be clear, I'm not advocating for a Christian theocracy.

00:09:14.500 Yep.

00:09:14.660 Uh, I don't want to have a Pope or an ayatollah at the head of our state.

00:09:19.460 I think that, um, we ha we have the recipe, you know, Canada was a pretty

00:09:24.500 good country for a really long time.

00:09:27.080 In fact, you can make a very persuasive argument that until very recently, we

00:09:30.500 were governed much better than the Americans were by their leaders, by most metrics.

00:09:35.780 And, but the idea of Canada, let's say, uh, was based broadly upon, you know, uh,

00:09:42.420 uh you know a liberal democracy parliamentary democracy that was underpinned by uh let's face

00:09:48.020 it judeo-christian principles uh that were broadly broadly accepted and what i would say is that for

00:09:56.180 example um i think it was uh it was uh richard dawkins recently talked about something called

00:10:02.580 cultural uh christianity did you hear about this he was interviewed and what he said was he's you

00:10:07.620 know and he's a renowned atheist right uh but he what he said is look i'd rather live in a society

00:10:14.180 that it's based upon that has a judeo-christian foundation uh than any other one because that's

00:10:20.900 the only society in which my views are going to be tolerated and and uh we've just we just know

00:10:28.340 uh from from practical application over time throughout history that that's the recipe that

00:10:34.020 has produced the most human flourishing i mean let's face it on this side of heaven we're not

00:10:38.980 going to construct a perfect society but the recipe that we had that worked for a really

00:10:44.100 long time we've gotten away from and at the same time that our society has declined uh you know

00:10:50.660 our our our sort of grounding in judeo-christian morality um has declined at the same time and i

00:10:59.380 don't think that that's coincidental. I think that's causal. I think there's a nexus there

00:11:04.560 because, remember, Canada is based upon the idea of having a good society. In our constitution,

00:11:11.280 it says, in the old BNA Act, it says peace, order, and good government. Well, the government we have

00:11:16.440 right now is not giving us very much peace. And I don't think, you know, apart from the elbows-up

00:11:21.140 crowd, you know, there isn't a lot of good government going on right now. At least most

00:11:26.360 people a lot of people in alberta don't think so and uh so it's important to ask the questions well

00:11:31.600 why is that what i'm saying and i understand people can disagree with this part of the reason

00:11:37.060 why is because um our leaders see themselves as rulers and this is part of the idolatry

00:11:43.780 that human beings are prone to and what we really need to have and i think what our leaders used to

00:11:51.120 have, at least generally speaking, is an idea that they were a servant leader.

00:11:56.200 And this is based upon the prescription that's in the New Testament.

00:12:00.180 You know, Jesus Christ washing his feet, you know, the last, in order to be first,

00:12:04.260 you must be last, right?

00:12:06.040 And if we had, listen, if our political leaders saw themselves as servant

00:12:10.860 leaders, servants of the public, I dare say we'd have a pretty good country.

00:12:15.100 We probably wouldn't be talking about independence.

00:12:17.240 So I think, um, again, changing political structures, changing, you know, black

00:12:22.880 letter law, that's not really going to make the kind of change that I think

00:12:26.920 people want, I think most people want to live in a good society.

00:12:30.020 They want safe streets.

00:12:31.120 They want good schools.

00:12:32.520 They want healthcare, you know, they want to feel good about their country.

00:12:36.260 They want to be proud of their country, of their communities.

00:12:39.640 They want to, they want to have, they want to have strong families and, you

00:12:43.680 know, these things cut across religious lines.

00:12:45.700 But I'm just saying that the type of society that we've seen in the West, broadly speaking, Western culture, which is underpinned by the principles that are in the Holy Bible, that's been the best prescription over time for a flourishing society.

00:13:05.680 And so that's what I'd like to see Alberta based upon going forward.

00:13:09.660 Yeah, I've had this discussion a lot.

00:13:12.580 But, you know, it's sort of interesting to—so I kind of alluded to this before we hit record, but I sort of have a bit of an interesting story in that regard in that I spent most of my life as a pretty firm, pretty ardent atheist, and I spent a lot of time arguing with religious people, specifically Christians.

00:13:32.640 I have a degree in philosophy with a concentration in Western religion and in ethics, but as an atheist.

00:13:41.320 And it's only been in the last couple of years that I actually did a complete 180.

00:13:46.400 Really?

00:13:47.140 Yeah.

00:13:47.660 And so, you know, I'm—

00:13:49.040 What was the change for you?

00:13:50.480 I'm very curious to know.

00:13:51.520 Yeah, you know, it's sort of—so I spent a lot of time—I come from a family of scientists.

00:14:01.960 like my my mom and my aunt right yeah biologists and chemists and and so i always approached um

00:14:08.680 life from a very cold scientific point of view and um and actually you know what it is is i uh

00:14:16.600 do you know uh dr john campbell is i yes in fact uh i was just in nashville uh at a national

00:14:25.560 conference for christian broadcasters and i was talking to uh some gentlemen there who were

00:14:29.960 scientists and uh what they're engaged in and you might be aware of this is they're connected to

00:14:34.520 people like dr stephen meyer who are discovering um that uh they're they're that the application

00:14:42.720 the proper application of science actually leads you inexorably to faith in god uh and not away

00:14:49.400 from and and uh these conversations are really fascinating and as science is unlocking more and

00:14:55.520 more of the sort of secrets of the national, of the natural

00:14:58.620 universe, it's become, you know, it's going to be, it's becoming

00:15:01.700 more and more obvious that we've, we're the products of an

00:15:04.340 intelligent design and a creator.

00:15:06.960 So, uh, yeah, so, so this stuff really fascinates me, uh, this, this topic.

00:15:11.940 So I really enjoy talking with scientific people about this stuff.

00:15:15.560 Yeah.

00:15:15.860 It, it is fascinating to, to see how many scientists, uh, are, are

00:15:19.760 very firm Christians actually, and how science actually affirms

00:15:22.560 their faith rather than, uh, contradicts it.

00:15:24.860 But so, so Dr. John Campbell, he, he was a guy that actually James and I were big fans of during COVID.

00:15:30.300 He was, he was part of the, uh, he sort of mirrored our journey in, in how we approached COVID starting off very, you know, um, James was always a little bit more skeptical than I was, but, uh, you know, I unfortunately was kind of wrapped up in it early on.

00:15:44.120 And I, and it was only, you know, after maybe about a year, year and a half that I started to ask them some questions and, and, and kind of, uh, what do they say that that's what radicalized me.

00:15:53.800 and uh and and so dr john campbell was great and um kind of following along that journey as he

00:15:59.540 started to ask more and more questions and see the results of more and more studies and learn

00:16:03.060 more and more about the the pathogen and so so short story long just a random video came up on

00:16:09.920 my uh youtube recommendations where he did a deep dive on the shroud of turin yeah and and i started

00:16:17.640 studying it's fascinating and it's and it's honestly like once you once you learn i would

00:16:23.700 recommend any listeners who are, who aren't familiar with this. So the Shroud of Turin is

00:16:27.680 to anyone unfamiliar listening is, uh, the purported burial cloth of Christ. Um, it was,

00:16:34.800 um, it was quote unquote debunked as a, as a middle age forgery for a long time, but, but new

00:16:43.100 studies have actually found that the, the original testing that like the dating that they did on the

00:16:47.960 cloth was done on repair patches that were done in the middle ages. And so that's why you get a

00:16:52.700 date of the middle ages when you actually test the the fibers and the and the pollen samples that

00:16:57.640 are left on it you get a first century jerusalem dating and location for those exact so we still

00:17:05.740 can't replicate the the imprint on it we don't know how like the the imprint has a almost a 3d

00:17:11.220 sort of photographic effect to it that is inexplicable at least for now for now it's

00:17:16.760 it's microns thin you can't like yeah and so that sort of led me on a trajectory they did say not

00:17:22.600 to interrupt they did say that it would take an incredible uh concentration of light energy yeah

00:17:29.400 to produce that image and you know uh i i'm so glad you brought up the shroud of turn because

00:17:34.600 it's a perfect example of you know how atheistic scientists geniuses really really smart people

00:17:41.480 are actually revealing the truth.

00:17:45.540 God is actually leading them to truth

00:17:48.180 through the application of their science

00:17:50.440 almost unwittingly.

00:17:51.560 And this is how God works so often.

00:17:55.200 And especially in my own life,

00:17:57.060 I've found this.

00:17:58.420 To people who are watching and listening,

00:18:00.500 there's a podcaster you guys probably know

00:18:02.400 named Michael Knowles.

00:18:03.740 He's on the Daily Wire Network.

00:18:05.960 He did a really wonderful deep dive on this.

00:18:08.760 About a two and a half hour talk

00:18:10.460 where he had an expert on there.

00:18:13.260 I can't recall his name offhand

00:18:14.680 that went into a lot of detail about this.

00:18:17.240 And I dare say that people are skeptics

00:18:19.540 about the Shroud of Turin.

00:18:20.760 Boy, they've got to check this stuff out

00:18:22.760 because that's a great example you bring up

00:18:25.480 of how scientists are just using modern techniques,

00:18:30.180 revolutionary scientific techniques

00:18:31.620 that are revealing the secrets of the natural universe,

00:18:34.420 which is exactly the way people like Newton

00:18:37.940 and Sir Francis Bacon saw science, isn't it?

00:18:40.720 Yeah.

00:18:41.040 Right.

00:18:41.600 And people don't realize that most of,

00:18:43.860 you know, Newton, for example,

00:18:45.220 most of his writings were religious texts

00:18:47.700 and were non-scientific writings.

00:18:49.260 Yeah.

00:18:50.500 He, along with, I mean,

00:18:52.260 you're probably familiar with St. Thomas Aquinas as well.

00:18:55.260 Oh, of course.

00:18:56.020 Yeah.

00:18:56.300 So did tons of writing on,

00:18:57.900 like he was probably the,

00:19:00.540 probably most of his work, you could say,

00:19:02.580 would be, you know, useful in the quest

00:19:05.880 for uniting science and religion, right?

00:19:07.580 He's one of the, he's one of the giants.

00:19:09.760 He wrote extensively on law as well.

00:19:12.000 Right.

00:19:12.780 Um, at the very end of his life, he, um, he had a divine revelation.

00:19:17.680 Yeah.

00:19:18.380 Yeah.

00:19:18.880 That's a great story.

00:19:19.980 People want to check that out.

00:19:21.360 Yeah.

00:19:21.720 Incredible.

00:19:22.240 Anyway, I think we went down a rabbit hole here.

00:19:24.100 Yeah.

00:19:24.320 So I'll tie her back up here.

00:19:26.700 So anyway, to, uh, uh, the, the reason I say that that's so interesting is because what

00:19:31.360 I learned in my journey here is how much we take for granted in the West of what being a good

00:19:39.140 person means and how much we glean from this history of Western common law that it itself

00:19:46.540 was actually derived from Christian principles. And you can't separate the two. The concept that

00:19:53.320 we grew up in a society where we just say, well, at least I said growing up, I know how to be a

00:19:59.260 moral person. I know how to treat my neighbor. And you don't realize if you don't know the history

00:20:04.280 that the only reason you grew up thinking that at all is because the fundamental underpinnings of

00:20:10.080 our society are based in a Christian ethic. And what you said is so important because

00:20:16.060 when we were looking at the independence movement for Alberta, we often will refer to

00:20:22.480 Um, the, the, probably the most recent and the most, I would say, um, most divisive

00:20:29.180 modern, uh, um, independence movement was the, you know, the balkanization of the, of

00:20:34.480 the East there.

00:20:35.240 So you have the, the Croatians and the Slovakians and the Bosnians and, and really, you know,

00:20:41.060 that and the, yeah, the Serbs.

00:20:42.320 And so that actually really underpins a, uh, that is a religious split.

00:20:49.060 The Croatians are Catholic, the Serbians are Orthodox, the Bosnians are Muslim, you know, and that's a really important factor in what caused their divide.

00:20:56.940 And you're right that if we, I can't really point to an example, I don't think, of an independence movement that is solely based on an economic consideration.

00:21:06.280 And I guess I would ask you, do you think that Alberta in particular has the, what would you say, like carrying capacity of, of Christians necessary to pull off a, um, a convincing cultural divide that would be necessary for this movement to succeed?

00:21:24.360 that's a great question um i don't think that uh human beings have the ability to make it happen

00:21:31.220 but i know that for my god anything is possible all things are possible and um i happen to believe

00:21:39.040 that independence for alberta is a god-ordained movement um uh i think that um excuse me the

00:21:45.600 manifest destiny for alberta is to be an independent country um and i see alberta as a distinct

00:21:52.900 society, much more distinct actually

00:21:54.980 than Quebec is. I think

00:21:56.860 that the people who live in Quebec have

00:21:58.900 a lot more in common

00:22:00.800 historically and culturally even now

00:22:02.860 with the people

00:22:04.780 in Ontario, especially

00:22:07.120 since Quebec has completely

00:22:09.040 abandoned their

00:22:10.560 Catholic history, which made them

00:22:12.840 was fundamentally what made them

00:22:14.980 distinct. And they've completely

00:22:16.980 abandoned it. And Quebec has become such a

00:22:18.980 secular society that Christian

00:22:20.980 missionaries are sent there.

00:22:22.900 uh in order to him to evangelize uh which is really incredible when you consider that you

00:22:29.400 know quebec with within the not too distant history was maybe the most christian part of

00:22:35.440 canada but uh i think alberta is a distinct society uh what's going to be really interesting

00:22:41.860 you know you you brought up the situation with what we used to call yugoslavia yeah and uh that

00:22:48.680 experiment failed but it failed because it misunderstood what europe is i mean if you

00:22:55.080 understand really understand europe uh it's a collection of the indigenous peoples of europe

00:23:00.720 we don't think of europe that way but that's who they are and so it's somewhat ironic that they're

00:23:05.760 being over they're being overrun like where do the indigenous peoples of europe go when they no

00:23:10.960 longer control their countries but what's different about the united states and canada

00:23:15.000 and i would include places like australia as well um is that we are multi-ethnic societies not

00:23:22.740 multicultural that's a that's a dangerous concept that we know uh causes all kinds of problems but

00:23:29.480 multi-ethnic what we've been able to do in canada united states is we've been able we've been able

00:23:35.640 to be the most welcoming places uh in all the world but we've been able to unite people under

00:23:43.040 shared values, real shared values, not the ones that Mr. Kearney talks about.

00:23:47.900 But I think that those values are still here.

00:23:50.580 I think people still want them.

00:23:53.420 And, you know, and that will cut across, you know, Christian and Muslim or black and white.

00:24:00.640 It'll cut across race.

00:24:02.240 It'll cut across ethnicity.

00:24:05.060 Because remember, and again, this is why I come back to Christianity.

00:24:09.180 uh i defy anyone to look at the at the teaching of jesus christ and find any scent of racism any

00:24:18.900 scent of elitism any any scent of that you know one culture is better than the others

00:24:25.800 he told jesus was a jew and he sent these men out on a great commission to evangelize all the people

00:24:33.220 who were not jews that was the great commission and uh and i think that um this is why i say

00:24:40.600 christianity has uh this uh this special character uh that that that frankly uh you know it's the

00:24:48.920 one uniting principle that can bring people together that doesn't mean that everyone has

00:24:53.680 to be a christian that's a beautiful thing about christianity as a christian i'm that there's no

00:24:59.460 other faith where where someone is called to love their enemy to pray for their enemy uh i have to

00:25:06.960 do that that's one of the hardest things i have to do as a christian but but uh you know listen

00:25:12.600 if you can do that if you can pray for your enemy um that that's that's a pretty good sign that

00:25:18.360 you're a decent person you're a good person you're gonna be able to get along with others

00:25:21.400 and this is why i say that uh you know fundamentally if we have that bedrock that we want to create a

00:25:27.900 good society that's based upon people who have a clear sense of what it means to be a good person

00:25:33.320 because that's going to produce strong families and flourishing communities and then that's how

00:25:39.380 you build that's how you build a nation and uh you know you mentioned that you're a philosopher

00:25:45.140 well go back and read some of the dialogues of plato remember where plato and or socrates and

00:25:51.240 thrasymachus they're debating in the square about who's the virtuous man and what is you know

00:25:57.380 Thrasymuska says, well, he's the one who's a scoundrel, but to all the world, he's virtuous.

00:26:04.120 And Socrates says, no, no, no, no.

00:26:05.720 The virtuous man is the one who is pure in his heart, although he's scorned by everyone in the world.

00:26:13.580 Well, who is that person but Jesus Christ?

00:26:17.100 Yeah.

00:26:17.840 Yeah.

00:26:19.560 I did want to ask one side, and you kind of have this intersection of

00:26:25.460 um you're a christian but you also with your indigenous heritage you have an interesting

00:26:34.400 perspective on the residential school side of things yeah um and in your fundamental truths

00:26:41.480 talk you mentioned that you wouldn't have gone down the path and been able to be a lawyer if

00:26:48.300 not for the education that your grandparents got through a residential school which

00:26:54.400 I can see from your perspective is a very positive thing. Uh, but even just reflecting

00:27:01.940 on some of the comments on the video and try to read all of them and like some of them

00:27:06.500 are more capable of dialogue than others, but it seems like people are viewing, first

00:27:13.200 of all, Christianity as a genocidal arm inflicting harm on indigenous people and then residential

00:27:24.040 schools was the institution that like carried out that harm uh so it's even very difficult for

00:27:31.640 people to wrap their minds around like why a education would be important they think that

00:27:39.480 education in a residential school equals harm and loss of culture which

00:27:45.640 Which might be true in any place where there is a dominant culture.

00:27:52.480 Like, I wouldn't expect to thrive in Japan if I did not adopt a bit of Japanese culture and, like, start integrating and learn the language.

00:28:03.480 And I probably wouldn't, I'd probably lose a little bit of what I have here in Canada and in Albertan.

00:28:10.920 Like, I would, some of that maybe would erode away over time.

00:28:14.140 So you'd expect if you're going to, if you're going to do well in a majority culture, then

00:28:22.880 you're going to have to integrate a little bit.

00:28:25.380 Right.

00:28:25.600 So my question to you is that how, how do you communicate this experience and how do

00:28:35.440 you square these circles where you have a lot of people that still have, you know, there's

00:28:41.500 still a lot of potential like trauma um a lot of anger a lot of hard feelings and it's hard for

00:28:51.860 them to see even different experiences on that how do you how do you communicate with these

00:28:58.220 with these people well it's definitely a challenge but the the real problem uh is that the people who

00:29:05.220 say those things have been deeply propagandized by our government. And this is sort of what I

00:29:11.760 talked about in my speech there. I'd approach it from this point of view. Many of your viewers

00:29:19.220 and listeners are probably familiar with a very famous children's author named Roald Dahl. He

00:29:24.340 wrote Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, James and the Giant Peach. Well, Roald Dahl, he's from

00:29:30.920 Scandinavia and unfortunately his father abandoned the family when he was a young boy I believe he

00:29:36.760 was an only child and of course as you might imagine he was a very precocious young man

00:29:41.740 showed some promise and so his mother sent him to be educated in England and he ended up getting

00:29:48.820 a scholarship to a very posh boys school and Roald Dahl actually wrote memoirs his memoirs

00:29:58.560 about his life and he talks about his childhood and but he described being at this posh English

00:30:03.940 boys school now remember these are young men who uh many are were coming from the upper class the

00:30:09.720 English gentry and they were on their way to places like Eaton and Cambridge and Oxford well guess

00:30:15.700 what uh he described about his you know the sort of 1920s 1930s uh English boys school well guess

00:30:23.680 what he discovered guess what the food was really bad okay there's a lot of bullying kids beating

00:30:29.980 each other up there was sexual abuse there was corporal punishment okay uh there was a lot of you

00:30:36.480 know cultural uh discrimination because you had kids coming from different backgrounds and things

00:30:41.080 of that nature so essentially what you had at this posh english boys school are all the things that

00:30:47.540 you have at Indian residential school.

00:30:50.000 And so this sort of begs the question, is this actually a racial question or is

00:30:54.800 it something about the nature of boys' schools in the early to mid 20th century?

00:31:01.880 And we've had examples in Canada, people know who know about Mount, Mount

00:31:05.080 Cashel, well, you know, part of the problem that, that we're dealing with,

00:31:08.860 with people is they've been propagandized because there's a 3,400

00:31:13.140 page Sinclair commission report.

00:31:15.680 I've read the whole thing.

00:31:17.540 And I can tell you of the anecdotal stories that are in there about Indian Residential School from people who have been there, like my grandmother, my great aunt, I would say about 85% of them were positive.

00:31:28.780 Those stories have been completely ignored, as have been all of the wonderful, dedicated, caring people who worked in those schools and never abused anyone.

00:31:41.460 They spent their lives living amongst these children, trying to educate them and keep them healthy.

00:31:48.140 The truth, the real truth about the Indian residential school experience, which we cannot say, which the government is trying to make criminal hate speech, is that the Indian residential school was actually a form of child welfare.

00:32:01.780 That's what it was.

00:32:02.680 There were two types of kids who went there.

00:32:04.500 if you were a child whose parents either could not or would not care for you and you were indian you

00:32:10.680 ended up at indian residential school or like my grandmother if you had parents who saw an

00:32:17.020 opportunity for their kids to advance themselves by becoming educated sort of in the white man's

00:32:23.800 world uh those are the two type of kids who ended up at residential school now did abuses happen

00:32:29.800 there? Absolutely. There were bad people there. There were pedophiles there. There were sadistic

00:32:34.480 people there. There were mean kids there. There was bad food. All of that is true. But that sort

00:32:43.560 of fractionalization, that distillation of Indian residential schools is not the truth

00:32:50.200 about Indian residential schools. Remember, I can tell you, 25 years ago when myself and a group of

00:32:57.340 other uh lawyers uh went to the government of canada and started saying look you know we might

00:33:03.620 have a class action here they laughed at us it wasn't there wasn't any part of it people didn't

00:33:09.100 didn't even talk about this 25 30 years ago but what has happened is this idea that canada is a

00:33:16.100 colonial society this idea that we are a fundamentally racist society the importation

00:33:21.980 of critical race theory, which is, as you know, is an American concept that really is

00:33:26.940 specific to the African-American experience there.

00:33:31.060 The liberals wanted to import that to Canada and they've succeeded and they've done it

00:33:35.920 through propaganda and frankly, lying.

00:33:38.620 A lot of the stuff that is said about Indian residential schools in terms of it being a

00:33:43.340 genocide is blatant lies.

00:33:45.320 And I can tell you, my wife will tell you in 2021, when the Kamloops hoax was announced, I said, I tell you right now, that's a hoax because I knew the lawyers who worked on those cases.

00:33:59.540 I worked on those cases for almost 20 years and most of them pretty smart people and they wouldn't have missed that one.

00:34:07.360 I'll tell you right now.

00:34:09.240 So, uh, but, but coming back to your question, the problem is always, uh, in Canada, it seems

00:34:15.780 these days is, you know, how do we live not by lies?

00:34:18.980 You know, how do we become a truthful, because part of being a good society is we have to

00:34:22.720 have a truthful society.

00:34:24.060 And it's very, very difficult with the media and government and all of our institutions

00:34:29.420 propagating, constantly propagating these myths, these lies about Canada that aren't

00:34:34.620 true and about our people, um, even about our own people, you know, the, the dirtiest

00:34:39.380 thing, and I talk about this in my speech, the dirtiest, most awful thing that is done

00:34:44.640 through this, this whole, uh, lie, this ideology of critical race theory is it paints the Indian

00:34:51.240 as a victim.

00:34:52.320 When I say Indian, I mean, you know, indigenous people, the first nations people of Canada.

00:34:58.300 uh that is a that is a terrible enslaving thing to do um because it removes agency first of all

00:35:06.860 and it removes responsibility for our own lives and our own people and i can tell you most of the

00:35:12.620 people i know who are first nations people uh that they don't see themselves as victims they

00:35:17.580 don't want to be seen as victims uh you know they they don't want that label whatsoever

00:35:22.300 but um i think the challenge now because of this division the sort of indian white division has

00:35:28.740 been there uh for so long the challenge is you know how do we bridge that and i think the the

00:35:34.740 first step to doing that is we stop lying to each other about our history because the real history

00:35:40.020 of north america uh and which is the whole basis for thanksgiving you know the the holiday that

00:35:46.480 we celebrate is, uh, really is, uh, is cooperation primarily that's been the

00:35:52.180 history of Indian content or Indian white contact has been, has been

00:35:58.240 cooperation and collaboration that the European peoples could not have survived

00:36:03.220 here without the assistance and cooperation of the indigenous peoples of North America.

00:36:08.480 And by the same token, uh, the, the net contribution of European contact

00:36:15.020 to indigenous peoples, it's astronomical.

00:36:17.320 Like we're talking about in Canada, indigenous people of Canada, prior

00:36:21.820 to white contact, didn't even have the wheel.

00:36:24.240 We're talking about people who were five and 10,000 years behind, you know,

00:36:29.520 in terms of civilization.

00:36:31.340 And, and so what I try to tell people is, is look, we've got to stop lying to

00:36:36.600 each other about the history of this country.

00:36:39.520 And we got to get back to telling real stories and the real story of Canada

00:36:42.820 and of Alberta, for that matter, is cooperation.

00:36:45.860 You know, the Indian people are not other.

00:36:48.460 They're not separate.

00:36:49.780 They're human beings.

00:36:51.740 They live in families.

00:36:53.100 They live in communities.

00:36:54.380 They want safe streets and good health care and all of that.

00:36:57.140 They want the same things that other Albertans want.

00:37:00.060 And, you know, I think

00:37:02.740 it's the people who are trying to divide and set us against each other.

00:37:07.100 That's the real problem.

00:37:08.140 But I think to answer your question, we got to start

00:37:10.660 I'm going to start by just, you know, do what Jordan Peterson says in his book, 12 rules for life, you know, tell the truth or at least don't lie.

00:37:20.320 Uh, you know, that's such an important point that you bring up and, and it's, and it's something that, um, you know, we've had Bruce party on this show and, uh, and of course, you know, yeah.

00:37:30.240 And one of his fundamental contentions is that he fears that an independent Alberta, sort of like you said earlier, would repeat some of the same issues that plague Canada as a whole right now.

00:37:48.980 And one of those issues that he sees is the, um, the continued, uh, enshrinement of these othering laws, um, where that set the indigenous apart from the, from the white man, if you will.

00:38:03.580 Um, do you have a firm opinion on that either way?

00:38:07.680 Like when let's, let's put ourselves in, you know, let's say that we have a, we have a successful referendum for independence in October.

00:38:14.520 Um, we're working out the terms of, uh, of the peaceful divorce as it were.

00:38:18.160 Yeah. And what would you ideally like to see happen? Would you like to see the treaties essentially switch administration from a federal to a provincial? Would you like to see them abolished entirely? Would you like to see them rewritten? Like what, in your ideal world, what happens with the existing agreements that we have with the indigenous bands right now?

00:38:39.400 Well, firstly, I agree with Bruce that it would be a horrific mistake to bring one of the worst things that the Canadian government ever did, which is to segregate and create essentially a Canadian form of apartheid.

00:38:55.160 That's what we have in this country.

00:38:57.140 Now, this gets sold to Indians as some sort of entitlement, as some sort of special status.

00:39:03.800 but if you gentlemen go to most first nations communities in this country it looks like the

00:39:10.040 third world so uh on every metric in terms of education health care longevity strength of

00:39:17.800 families number of alcoholism drug abuse a number of of prostitution child trafficking

00:39:25.400 our prison populations indigenous peoples are losing on every single metric at the very very

00:39:32.360 bottom so this special status of indians is not working out very well for them is it

00:39:38.520 uh there seems to be a more subtle agenda uh in fact that might be the real genocide that's facing

00:39:46.200 indian people i happen to think so and so coming back to your point about bruce purdy about bruce

00:39:51.000 party who i respect very much um he's quite right what an opportunity albert a renovated alberta

00:40:00.280 presents we have this clean slate we have the ability to refashion a society to take the best

00:40:09.240 parts of canada the best parts of the way alberta is right now and we have the opportunity also to

00:40:16.440 delete the parts that we don't like that aren't working very well and you know alberta is a great

00:40:22.360 example of what i'm talking about because if you compare the treatment of the metis peoples of

00:40:29.160 of Alberta, okay, versus how First Nations people are treated by Canada. Wow, there's a quantum

00:40:36.240 difference there. The Métis peoples of Alberta and Manitoba is another fine example. You know,

00:40:43.680 they're actually exercising true self-governance in a cooperative fashion. Now, I'm not saying

00:40:50.580 that everything is Shangri-La in Métis communities, but it's a much better model to work

00:40:55.720 with and and i think the metis peoples of alberta and i say this to indigenous peoples in in in

00:41:00.880 alberta as well to first nations peoples you know metis people are doing are getting a lot treated

00:41:05.100 a lot better by you than they are by canada but uh um i think we have to we have to renovate this

00:41:13.220 you know a lot of people don't understand what's going on in first nations communities um these

00:41:18.780 are these are centers for uh for crime uh for drug production drug trafficking human trafficking and

00:41:28.060 money laundering there's a reason why it's considered racist uh why the auditor general

00:41:35.020 can't audit the way money is spent on an Indian reserve uh it's because any reserves have been

00:41:41.260 used for money laundering by the federal government for a very very long time i can tell you that on

00:41:46.780 personal experience because when my first law job was in the federal government of of was for the

00:41:52.380 federal department of justice when john chretchen was a newly minted prime minister and it was going

00:41:57.740 on then i could tell you stories uh you would you would not believe um we have to get rid of this

00:42:04.700 uh reserve system altogether uh but it has to be done in consultation with indigenous peoples

00:42:10.220 but it's important for people who are listening to this uh or watching this to understand that

00:42:16.780 The people who are out front, for example, the chief of Sturgeon Lake, who's suing the

00:42:23.740 government of Alberta because we're going to have a referendum, those people don't accurately

00:42:28.480 represent the feelings and the sentiments of Indigenous peoples in Alberta.

00:42:33.160 These people are paid.

00:42:34.540 They're paid well by NGOs.

00:42:38.020 And so they're the spokespeople.

00:42:39.520 They're the people we hear.

00:42:40.440 They're the barking dogs, but they're not really the voice of Indigenous peoples.

00:42:44.740 but unfortunately they do a pretty good job of giving the false impression to non-indigenous

00:42:50.440 people what indigenous people are already thinking but when you go to communities and you actually

00:42:55.120 talk to first nations peoples uh it becomes clear to you very very quickly that they're just like

00:43:01.620 you and me they just want all they want all the same things everybody else wants and um you know

00:43:06.680 this sort of historical cultural identity uh is something that the importance of it is very much

00:43:12.540 inflated uh it doesn't put food on your table uh it doesn't give you a decent job it doesn't give

00:43:17.980 you a decent education it doesn't really do much to take care of your health these are all things

00:43:23.420 that all everybody in alberta and i believe most people in canada want they're being denied to the

00:43:28.780 indian in this country and have been for a long time but not by the racist white population it's

00:43:34.220 not whitey that's doing it it's that government in ottawa that's been doing it since long before 1867

00:43:40.060 Yeah. So there's another interesting comment slash criticism on your talk saying that these ideas should be unpacked in a moderated debate with chiefs. And this is obviously coming from somebody who puts a lot of authority into the people that you just described, the ones that are benefiting from this current system.

00:44:05.540 Yeah. So let's say Alberta in October, there's an overwhelming, like there's a majority support for independence and we have a constitutional convention. What would good, effective consultation with indigenous people look like in this?

00:44:25.780 um because you're making it sound like and i i think we we could predict that the chiefs would

00:44:33.940 would maybe not maybe they would act in the self-interest of the chiefs more than the

00:44:40.100 people under it um the people that they're supposed to be representing so how do we get

00:44:46.980 proper representation from the the people that are affected the most on the reservations

00:44:53.300 um how do we get like how do you get the message out how do you get them understanding the situation

00:44:59.820 that they're in and then how do you how do they get a stronger voice in that process let it be

00:45:07.700 this constitutional convention well i think that um this begs the question and i think this is the

00:45:14.860 question that bruce party is asking and that is why should and this is important question we have

00:45:20.040 ask why should first nations and believe me first nations i think is a bad term i i'm not sure how

00:45:27.400 he came up with that uh but why should they have a special status why should they have a special say

00:45:33.080 in the in the future of alberta you know the the statistics are that they make up about one percent

00:45:39.000 of the of the alberta population and that that statistic is is is dropping very very quickly

00:45:45.320 with the number of new immigrants who are flooding into this province so ask yourself this question

00:45:50.200 well let's say um the one percent richest people uh in alberta uh wanted to have a a sit down and

00:45:59.080 have a special time to talk about their special status in a new alberta what do you think the

00:46:03.480 public reaction would be so my question is let's go back to first principles why should uh the

00:46:10.840 people who call themselves first nations who live on reserves um or or for that matter live off

00:46:16.520 reserve why should that they have a special status in alberta why should they be given special

00:46:23.480 treatment um what's what what is their argument what is the basis for that that they were here

00:46:29.800 before european contact um you know uh that to me uh is importing uh a whole ideology that i don't

00:46:39.080 happen to agree with and if you want to see where that goes go talk to the people in vancouver the

00:46:44.680 federal government just gave away large parts of vancouver um that's where that goes uh and you

00:46:51.720 know that's that's the real danger that these people uh have to understand you know and this

00:46:56.520 idea um there's there's got to be some some give and take here i think indigenous peoples

00:47:02.920 want to be they want to have a stake they want to be a part of something because unfortunately

00:47:08.840 they've been they've lived a segregated existence um and and that's just the reality they want to

00:47:16.680 they want to be part of alberta independence so i think that's that's what you that's what you

00:47:22.600 that's how you bring them in but this otherness of the indian uh is hurting them and it and it

00:47:29.800 hurts it hurts the rest of us too uh because um you know if if we continue to talk in these terms

00:47:37.640 and to see things in this way we're only going to continue to repeat all the errors of the past

00:47:44.360 um all the things that there are worse things happening right now uh much worse things

00:47:49.640 happening on first nation in first nations communities than indian residential schools

00:47:54.360 that make indian residential schools experience look like absolute child's play i'm talking about

00:47:58.840 child trafficking you know i'm talking about prostitution i'm talking about uh you know

00:48:04.200 know gangs uh indian gangs running what's going on on reserves um i'm talking about ngos controlling

00:48:13.300 uh you know chiefs and councils um you know chiefs and councils you know chiefs you know

00:48:20.100 albert indian chiefs making a million getting a million dollars a year while you know the people

00:48:25.240 living on reserve don't even have routing water they don't even have a school uh let alone proper

00:48:31.840 medical care in their communities uh why would we perpetuate that what is the argument you know

00:48:37.680 i think the onus has to be put on these these people who claim to be leaders of of indigenous

00:48:43.600 communities to justify their special status because their special status to date uh has

00:48:50.400 looked like um they're they're running fiefdoms in third world countries um and where they've been

00:48:57.120 successful and there are there are success stories where they have been successful it's through

00:49:02.400 cooperation and collaboration uh with with the quote-unquote white world through operation of

00:49:10.160 casinos through uh resource development uh through through development you know create through you

00:49:16.200 know job creation um through educational programs uh that's what that's that's the language that i

00:49:23.180 think we've got to speak uh to the to to indigenous peoples um but i think we've got to put the onus

00:49:29.620 on them to justify why alberta a new alberta would perpetuate such an awful system yeah and uh sort of

00:49:37.760 double dip uh mike with these questions but uh the when i mentioned the seat at the constitutional

00:49:45.700 convention that wasn't assuming a special status right but that's more maybe it's reflecting on

00:49:54.940 the point where if you have people in a segregated society to radically desegregate

00:50:03.220 runs the risk of well people are scared of the outcome they're scared of uncertainty

00:50:08.420 And anytime you have massive changes, there is a risk of people being worse off through that destabilization, through that shift.

00:50:18.720 So I think part of that discussion would have to be some kind of assurance that you wouldn't shake things up so quickly, so violently that you would make all these problems that you've described on the reservations even worse because the status quo is the status quo.

00:50:40.860 there's some stability even in a broken system so there would have to be a

00:50:48.780 a transitional path and a positive vision like forward through that as well yeah and then um

00:50:57.980 special status that's a different conversation to right like where where people would end up after

00:51:03.900 addressing some of these some of these issues yeah this is you raise an important point and

00:51:09.960 i don't want people to think that uh you know i've got all the answers or that the answers to

00:51:15.400 these questions are are easy ones and so you raise an important point yeah i mean um we don't know

00:51:22.260 what this is going to look like going forward but what i'm saying is my point is we have a pretty

00:51:27.320 good idea of what doesn't work and what doesn't work is the is the current situation there's got

00:51:32.580 to be a better way to do it and having um uh indigenous peoples involved in constitutional

00:51:40.120 consultations and a constitutional convention absolutely has to happen uh because you know

00:51:46.840 they're going to be albertans you know if albert independence is going to happen they're going to

00:51:51.660 be albertans um but you know part of the problem is most first nations peoples don't see themselves

00:51:57.800 as canadians that's a big problem they're really missing out because you know people are coming

00:52:03.720 here from all over the world because they want to be canadians uh being canadian used to be a pretty

00:52:10.600 cool thing um and you know in the indian has lost out on that almost entirely except for the ones

00:52:18.920 who have resisted the temptation uh to see themselves as as victims and who have instead

00:52:25.240 uh decided that they were going to embrace their own their own vision for their for their lives

00:52:30.200 and their families and uh we have a lot of success stories like that in alberta people like dale

00:52:35.000 swampy an incredible albertan uh really amazing guy you should have him on your show um because

00:52:41.400 he can tell you you know he's lived on both sides of it uh trying to get pipelines built uh trying

00:52:47.720 to get resource development extraction on first nations communities uh that that's going to help

00:52:52.680 them and create jobs and guess what he can't do it every single government over the past 30 years

00:53:00.040 in ottawa uh has said no has said no to him um they don't want to develop these resources they

00:53:05.880 don't want to raise the situation of the indian in this country that's the reality that that folks

00:53:11.400 have to accept and um i'm hopeful that if we do achieve independence in alberta that we will have

00:53:19.080 a good government that will not behave in that way that will treat uh the indigenous peoples

00:53:24.680 of alberta with dignity and respect and want to raise raise them up uh raise their standard of

00:53:31.400 living because what we have in our country right now i think we can all agree is really deplorable

00:53:36.040 it's a shame it's a blight on our country uh that's the one truth about all this um and but

00:53:42.280 But it's not all, it's, it's, um, the Indian has to bear some responsibility for it because

00:53:48.420 being a victim, seeing yourself as a victim is a choice and, and where it changes is when

00:53:54.560 you reject that.

00:53:55.600 And yes, that's scary because you're rejecting a status quo, but you know, it's sort of like

00:54:01.440 though, you know, I mean, the Titanic is going down and you're holding onto a spar of wood

00:54:06.020 when you can see land in sight.

00:54:08.120 You know, it's a choice, you know.

00:54:11.440 But you're quite right, though.

00:54:14.040 There are dangers out there,

00:54:15.300 and there aren't any easy answers

00:54:17.040 to these complex questions.

00:54:19.940 That leads me, interestingly,

00:54:22.980 into something I was thinking about

00:54:24.160 when you were talking is, you know,

00:54:26.220 sometimes the Indigenous situation in Canada

00:54:29.800 gets compared in similar terms

00:54:33.980 to the african-american discussion um where you know you you have a people who you know

00:54:42.100 in in many cases relatively recently have a have a fairly traceable lineage of uh you know being

00:54:49.620 the ancestors of people who were objectively very horribly treated however they've they've um sort

00:54:56.920 of like you said they've they've sort of inherited what seems they've inherited what seems to be a

00:55:02.340 victim mentality, and they identify with a situation maybe at a pathological level that

00:55:10.240 doesn't necessarily reflect their current situation. In your discussions and your interactions with

00:55:16.700 everyday Indigenous people who very specifically aren't the chiefs who are on the news talking

00:55:23.000 about how Alberta will never separate, these sort of things, did you get the impression that the

00:55:28.620 average indigenous Albertan views themselves as a, um, as a victim to the system, so to speak,

00:55:35.520 or, or do they have more of a, um, maybe they are, are depressed at their current situation or

00:55:41.720 they're, they're not so hopeful, but do you get the impression that they view themselves as a,

00:55:45.800 as a continuation of a lineage of oppressed people or, or something different?

00:55:50.740 Yeah. Unfortunately, um, there's a sense of a lack of agency and, um, and they detest the

00:55:58.040 government on their reserves even more so than we do uh mr kearney in ottawa when i say we i mean

00:56:05.720 people like me who who think that the liberal government of canada is essentially a death cult

00:56:10.880 um you know try to imagine what that would be like for someone living in a first nations community

00:56:17.760 and just because someone is elected chief um they're fabulously wealthy um you know that's

00:56:24.580 the opposite of the type of leadership that they, that they deserve.

00:56:30.360 And, but you know, having said that there's a sense of a, of despondency,

00:56:35.320 a lack of agency of hopelessness, and that leads to a whole panoply of

00:56:41.060 social ills that we've talked about, but you know, you raise a good point.

00:56:44.920 This comparison between, um, the, the, the situation of first nations peoples

00:56:50.780 in Canada and the African-American experience in the United States.

00:56:55.700 And, um, the only reason it doesn't really fit, but the only reason why

00:57:01.460 it seems to fit now is because what has been done to black people in the United

00:57:07.940 States over the last 60 years through the great society and people like Dr.

00:57:12.020 Thomas Sowell have written really authoritative books on this is that, um,

00:57:17.780 they've they've systematically destroyed the agency of black people uh destroyed black families

00:57:25.680 you know if you go back to the 1940s and 1950s uh and you look at the metrics on on african-american

00:57:32.720 families uh they had lower rates of of divorce uh they were very successful in industries like

00:57:39.640 uh you know construction for example obviously entertainment um there they were uh there were

00:57:46.340 people were they had their own colleges going to universities uh the the situation of the

00:57:51.840 black people in the united states um was much better uh prior to the great society and the

00:57:59.000 welfare system prior to actually the the economic segregation of black people and destruction of

00:58:05.980 their families that's where you begin to see the high incidence of black men in prison of black

00:58:11.700 women in prostitution of of systemic poverty um you know it has nothing to do with slavery

00:58:18.900 uh that that slavery that's a that's an old old old problem that was solved

00:58:24.260 um well if you look at the metrics well into the into the 20th century but it's interesting to see

00:58:31.060 it's almost like uh you know you know lyndon johnson was looking at what what the governor

00:58:37.700 of canada did to the indian and said wow gee that's that's pretty good maybe that'll work here

00:58:42.580 because i want to destroy them i want to destroy the situation of of the black man in america

00:58:47.220 but otherwise it's com it's a complete non-fit uh because you know the the struggle the the

00:58:53.540 dignified struggle of the african-american people out of slavery and emerging out of that you know

00:59:00.260 if you look at the first 100 years after emancipation it's it's amazing how far black

00:59:06.820 people in that country came and then if you look at the last 60 years it's almost they've you know

00:59:12.500 by and large they've slid so far backwards um with some obvious exceptions like the one i mentioned

00:59:19.540 uh you know dr soul who might be the greatest living um public intellectual and has a very

00:59:27.060 unique perspective because he grew up in harlem uh and i believe he's 90 is in his well into his

00:59:33.300 90s now so he's lived through all this went to harvard you know university of chicago and so

00:59:39.380 uh he speaks very authoritatively about how you know government has just uh destroyed his

00:59:45.700 you know you know the situation of black people in that country and so again more government

00:59:52.580 seems to be a very bad thing whether it's the indian in canada or the black person in america

00:59:57.940 more government seems to be very very bad thing and i think that's also true for the rest of us

01:00:02.580 i think uh you know we need less government more individual responsibility uh more faith

01:00:09.380 uh i think we need to do things as communities you know in you know whether it's through through

01:00:15.220 churches or community groups uh you know the boy scouts girl guides whatever you know uh volunteer

01:00:22.340 fire departments we were much better uh communities when we were doing things for ourselves because

01:00:28.180 when we do things for ourselves we put our heart into them uh in a way that the government and the

01:00:33.140 state never will and the state never does any of these jobs as well as we could do for ourselves

01:00:39.140 we need to our government's doing a lot less and people doing for ourselves including things like

01:00:43.700 building homes uh you know uh i mean i i think if you look at the history of of you know government

01:00:50.820 uh housing uh that's a very very sad story it's the last thing we want any government doing in

01:00:56.340 this country or in any country because we've seen what that looks like so i think in a new

01:01:03.060 in a new alberta i think what i'd like to see is limited government stronger families more

01:01:08.740 connected communities uh because i think that's the recipe for human flourishing that has what was

01:01:14.980 proven to be successful uh not only in this country but also in the united states yeah and

01:01:21.620 there's a no greater harm that you could do to somebody than to teach them that they're a victim

01:01:28.260 and to teach them that the only solution is to receive help from somebody else and not do it

01:01:34.620 themselves and this is the recipe of how you make a a useless child dependent on somebody else to do

01:01:43.840 something for them is anytime they try something difficult you say no no no you don't don't try

01:01:50.160 that don't do that i'll do it for you or you you stop any of that exploration you stop you tell

01:01:58.720 them that challenges must be met with external help yeah they're losing the agency to be creative

01:02:06.660 like to take responsibility for their actions they're also learning that they don't have

01:02:14.200 internal control for their destiny you are externalizing it and essentially this victim

01:02:22.180 mindset when you once you instill it it is a dependency mindset it is

01:02:27.920 just justifying the government somebody to save you so you've created the problem that only

01:02:35.660 government can fix yeah so and it doesn't matter what group you're in because that the victim

01:02:42.120 mind virus can instill itself on anybody and this is like the least racist way of thinking about it

01:02:49.460 is that everybody can adopt a victim mindset the great thing about intersectionalism is

01:02:56.620 you can find a way to be oppressed you can sure can there there's always a way that you can you

01:03:03.720 can get your special special card and so yeah the path forward is to have a like a shared positive

01:03:11.720 vision of the future to adopt that personal responsibility to tell people that they are

01:03:17.160 capable and i think we're seeing that through independence is that it's grassroots based

01:03:23.320 you're spending people like there's a lot of people spending many many hours and all this

01:03:28.280 hard work and you look at it's wonderful isn't it to see yeah it's it's it's something that

01:03:35.560 is inspiring on its own yeah and i i think it'll continue to inspire yeah i totally agree with you

01:03:42.360 and and uh i also think that um in terms of broadly speaking in terms of the values that

01:03:50.280 we would base our society on i think we can agree on them by and large obviously we have to leave

01:03:56.280 room for differences right because that those make us better um we we what the one thing we've

01:04:03.480 learned in north america uh is that multi-ethnic societies really do work multi-ethnic ones you

01:04:09.720 know where we take the best from different types of of cultures um and and sort of blend them

01:04:16.520 together uh we we that's that's been shown to work very very well uh and i think um i i think

01:04:25.240 you could make a very strong argument for saying that the success of countries like

01:04:29.880 county of the united states could not have been achieved without them being multi-ethnic societies

01:04:36.760 uh you know all of us appreciate um different cultures you know um and and uh or we should

01:04:44.840 and respect them that doesn't mean all cultures are equal that's multiculturalism

01:04:48.760 but we can take the best parts from different cultures and i think we can agree we can agree

01:04:54.200 to preserve that um and we can also agree on some shared values um that that i think um you know

01:05:04.120 as you say alberta independence is sort of these are bubbling to the surface and people are seeing

01:05:09.720 them and i think that's that's maybe the best thing about albert independence even if it's not

01:05:15.880 successful in its first iteration it still will have been a success because it got us thinking

01:05:24.200 about these things thinking about what is a good society what's important to us right what type of

01:05:30.920 communities do we want to live in you know what things will we accept what things are totally

01:05:36.440 objectionable and i think maybe the greatest thing that alberta independence movement is doing

01:05:42.040 is getting people thinking and talking about these things because for a long time let's face it maybe

01:05:48.120 we took we took these things for granted and when you take things for granted you tend to lose them

01:05:53.080 don't you is that not the ultimate expression of agency though yeah albertans getting together

01:05:59.480 saying that we can do this thing and we we want to take it under our own our own wing yeah it's

01:06:06.200 a great way of putting it yeah i quite agree with you i think that's a beautiful thought to end it

01:06:11.080 it on, actually, I think that's, um, that wraps it up in a, in a tidy little bow as you are want to

01:06:15.660 do, sir. Um, if, uh, if our, if our, uh, viewers wanted to, uh, find you, what's the, what are the

01:06:21.660 best places to do so if you wanted to, to drop some, uh, some links? Well, we've got the, the

01:06:26.280 podcast, uh, and, um, so they can visit us, uh, we're on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, everywhere. And

01:06:33.660 if they would subscribe, that would be great. That, that helps us. It doesn't cost anything.

01:06:37.580 um i'm very active on x that's the only social media i really use uh a lot um and i'll even

01:06:45.180 connect with people and get into conversations as long as there's a civil on x that's it at

01:06:50.260 gray matter convo i'm also very active on substack uh and so a lot of my stuff gets published there

01:06:56.780 and uh really it's a community it's a welcoming community the you know the gray matter uh podcast

01:07:02.540 is a welcoming community uh we do have a christian focus but uh we like to hear from people who aren't

01:07:08.740 christians who are muslims or whatever uh you know we we love to to have you um engage in our

01:07:15.760 conversations we put out uh a commentary uh each week that's an essay that i write uh that is

01:07:22.620 published i also have an interview uh once per week and then every thursday night at seven

01:07:27.780 And we have a live show, uh, where people can actually, uh, send in comments and participate.

01:07:33.700 So, um, it's been, uh, I've really enjoyed it.

01:07:36.920 I think it's been the greatest learning experience of my life.

01:07:39.740 Um, and, uh, so I'm very grateful for it and I'm very grateful for the opportunity to come here and talk with you guys on your show.

01:07:47.320 Thank you, sir.

01:07:48.000 Well, we really appreciate you coming on.

01:07:49.520 We'd love to have you back and, uh, and hopefully, uh, maybe in a few months we'll have you back and, and it'll be, uh, we'll be talking about what a, what a successful campaign.

01:07:57.760 We, we all ran on these, uh, on these very

01:08:00.880 good sound ideas.

01:08:02.560 Yeah, let's hope, let's hope.

01:08:03.980 But yeah, you guys keep up the great work.

01:08:05.640 I think it's wonderful to see the growth of Truth

01:08:08.680 in Media and podcasting and you guys are part of that.

01:08:11.200 So God bless you.

01:08:13.080 Thank you, sir.

01:08:13.540 God bless you too.

01:08:14.180 Thank you very much.

01:08:27.760 Thank you.

The Critical Compass Podcast - March 22, 2026

How Faith & Freedom Will Build a Prosperous Independent Alberta ｜ Leighton Grey

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