The Critical Compass Podcast - How Freedom Wins in a 2 Party System ｜ Fergus Hodgson, Drew Barnes, Phil Hart & Michael Harris

00:00:00.000 i'd like to begin with the win at retail politics panel now if we talk about well in my case i've

00:00:12.700 been discussing how we want to have the right people the uh right uh vanguard or aristocracy

00:00:18.940 or institutions and then we want to project that into the political world the question is

00:00:23.720 okay how do we actually go about achieving that going from let's say a minority uh at the present

00:00:30.320 time or whatever into a majority or bringing a pro-liberty message to the legislature i think

00:00:36.700 that the real challenge i always have is reconciling the the very let's say ardent

00:00:42.880 pro-liberty platform which with what exactly is that is going to get votes and the libertarian

00:00:48.840 Party in Canada has had such a tough time, even worse than the Libertarian Party in the United

00:00:53.280 States. So let's say, Drew, looking back, you managed to get elected and to be there for

00:01:00.100 a decade, was it? 11 years. 11 years, yeah. So how did you reconcile having a very strongly

00:01:06.880 pro-free market or pro-independence sentiment with getting elected? What would be your wisdom

00:01:12.420 for people who are just all-out Libertarian with the Libertarian Party? Yeah, thank you for that

00:01:17.600 question and thanks for this great conference. I will start by saying it's very, very tough.

00:01:23.900 Our political system is extremely broken. It's characterized by two parties crowded in the

00:01:30.660 middle, people on both sides scared to split the vote. I believe that I stuck to my values that I

00:01:39.240 was originally elected on, totally consistent with the majority of the values of Cyprus Medicine Hat

00:01:44.040 in 2012, smaller government, lower taxes, stronger property rights, and more choice.

00:01:50.840 And then I saw my party and my colleagues drift away from that because of a strong

00:01:58.440 administrative state, a desire for power. So I think we have to accept that in our current

00:02:05.920 first past the post Westminster system, it's going to lead to two parties. So let's figure

00:02:12.400 out a way for the libertarian values to work strongly in a conservative party. And if that

00:02:20.600 can't happen, we have to become very, very strategic. I believe strongly in what the

00:02:27.520 Australian National Party has done. And it's a party that's over 100 years old and has

00:02:32.800 dedicated itself to not running in the state, the nine state or the federal capitals since

00:02:39.260 inception, it quite often has a balance of power with real family and conservative values. At least

00:02:45.580 they get some of their values put in sometimes. Secondly, as hesitant as I am to say this,

00:02:52.460 the most effective party in Canada the last 50 years has been the New Democrats, our most

00:02:58.140 leftist party, because they've always stuck to their values and had the balance of power.

00:03:03.500 maybe the libertarians have to figure out a similar way.

00:03:07.380 Phil, there's an important topic I would like you to address, and you can speak about it more

00:03:13.720 in your breakout. How did many Republicans in the United States build this freedom caucus,

00:03:21.240 this kind of coalition within the party? Because I don't understand, to be frank,

00:03:25.520 why we don't have more variety of views within the United Conservative Party of Alberta or within

00:03:30.660 the Conservative Party of Canada, why do we all have to be the same? Was there such a lockstep

00:03:35.360 view, and how did Republicans break out of that in the United States?

00:03:39.260 Okay, well, good question. I'm going to tell you a little bit about my political journey. I started

00:03:45.020 as a third grader going door-to-door for Barry Goldwater, and then I worked on the Ronald Reagan

00:03:49.960 campaign. Then I got tired of the Republican Party, so I actually joined the Constitution

00:03:54.120 Party for five years and concluded after five years that that was a debate club, not a party

00:03:59.340 that was going to get something done. People disagree with that. But I joined the Republican

00:04:04.460 Party as a constitutionalist with a leaning towards libertarian concepts. And slowly,

00:04:12.720 one by one, more people like me got involved with the Republican Party. The Republican Party

00:04:18.060 in Idaho is very conservative. We have a very conservative platform. And I just think what

00:04:22.620 we've done, if we sort of harness that conservative libertarian mindset, those people are joining the

00:04:28.980 Republican Party, and we worked really hard to get more of us elected to the point where now we

00:04:34.420 have, in the last session of the legislature, we had 12 members in our Freedom Caucus. And I think

00:04:41.080 going forward, we're going to probably increase the 14 or 15 members by working hard in the party.

00:04:46.420 Okay. But so right now this is happening. There's a challenge in the United Conservative

00:04:51.180 Party or UCP of Alberta of many people who are much more independent or liberty-minded

00:04:56.640 trying to get elected. But there's a concern that maybe the leadership just doesn't want them. I'm

00:05:02.580 not the biggest expert on that. And right now, there's this battle going on in the Republican

00:05:08.480 Party in the United States too, the kind of MAGA or Trump influence versus the more liberty-minded

00:05:14.280 people. How did the Freedom Caucus even become a thing? Was it just as simple as getting more

00:05:20.520 people elected? I mean, do you want to give any more organizational wisdom as to how that grew?

00:05:24.920 because I know you've been a part of that to some degree. And you mentioned that in Congress in the

00:05:30.420 U.S., it actually has had a big impact. Well, I think it's political activism on the part of the

00:05:38.660 elected members. So the Freedom Caucus in Congress was started by very conservative members,

00:05:44.560 including our attorney general in Idaho, Raul Labrador. And at the state legislature level,

00:05:51.520 I think we just work harder. Conservatives work harder. Seems like the other side has more money,

00:05:56.380 but we have the boots on the ground and we put in more effort. So I'm afraid that the recipe is a

00:06:02.640 lot of hard work, a lot of knocking on doors, having candidates who are electable. Some people,

00:06:09.300 I've known guys that run for office with every election they do worse because they're not

00:06:13.640 electable or they're not likable. So you have to have a candidate that's electable and a message

00:06:18.480 that people like. And I think in Idaho, we have a very conservative population, which frankly is

00:06:23.680 more conservative than the elected officials. So it's our job to get the message out of who

00:06:28.380 actually stands for what. Michael, maybe you want to explain what your involvement has been with

00:06:33.920 the Libertarian Party and why you don't seek to just join the UCP or the Conservative Party and

00:06:40.480 form a more liberty-minded faction? Well, I've worked with the Conservative Party in the past,

00:06:46.400 And I found that really they have an issue where if the money people come in and say, you're not going to do this, then they just don't do it.

00:06:55.780 They can claim that they are the Canada first, you know, anti-war free market party all they want.

00:07:00.940 But then when we look at how they're actually producing policy and how they're actually dictating their party, it fails.

00:07:08.400 They end up supporting foreign wars in other countries, supporting Ukraine or supporting wars in Asia or supporting, they say they support free market policies, but then they go on and support supply management, which brings up the cost of living for every Canadians.

00:07:23.680 And I wanted to take a stand on that.

00:07:25.840 I last year took the stand of leaving the Conservative Party of Canada, stopped supporting their campaigns.

00:07:32.140 I ran some campaigns for Damien Couric and Stephanie Cousy in the past, and I wanted to take it out on my own.

00:07:38.400 to support the libertarian party of canada is running a candidate in battle river crowfoot

00:07:42.800 do you see that role as purely educational or what could the libertarian party do to become more

00:07:48.800 electorally relevant like the ndp we've been very successful in policy regard even though we might

00:07:54.720 not hold a seat or might not be able to hold majority government in 2029 we've done many

00:08:00.000 things that the conservative party other parties can't do because we're not held back by money uh

00:08:04.240 money people we can say and do things that we want to do to push change one of the things is

00:08:08.560 we worked with our partners in students for liberty to go coast to coast to fight back against

00:08:13.360 the carbon tax we collected thousands of signatures from students in canadian universities and we

00:08:19.840 submitted this petition to the government of canada and four days later the consumer carbon

00:08:24.560 tax was reduced or removed completely we've been out there talking with people about supply

00:08:29.760 management, which has faced, it's an issue that has faced everyday Canadians. We have young people

00:08:35.260 that generally are, they feel like they've been left behind. They felt like that they have, like

00:08:40.360 they were saying earlier, that this country is broken, that we don't really have much left. And

00:08:45.060 you want to know something, the failure of our federal government is, you know, it's sad, but

00:08:50.740 it's actually good for business because a lot of people are sick and tired of how this country is

00:08:55.460 being run with Mark Carney. And a lot of people see the failure of three consecutive conservative

00:08:59.920 elections and the failure of them to get elected as, well, you're not really doing much either,

00:09:04.340 guys. You might be in official opposition, but what have you actually changed in this country?

00:09:08.320 Our party has been out there every single day fighting for policy, fighting against supply

00:09:13.040 management, fighting against the carbon tax, fighting to ensure that people have their freedoms

00:09:17.320 and rights. And that's something we're very successful at. And I'm happy to be a part of that.

00:09:20.820 Okay. Drew? Yeah.

00:09:25.460 Drew, you mentioned the inevitability of two major parties within a first-past-the-post system, yet you are leading or starting a new party, right, at the federal level. Do you want to make that make sense?

00:09:42.200 Yeah, thank you for that.

00:09:44.160 We are in the process of gathering the signatures we need

00:09:47.720 to start a new federal party called Alberta Now

00:09:52.220 that is only going to run in the 37 federal Alberta seats.

00:09:57.060 Our position is going to be a conservative party

00:09:59.800 believing in smaller government and lower taxes.

00:10:02.440 We're also going to believe in stronger provincial autonomy,

00:10:06.160 including abolishment of the Senate.

00:10:08.240 And maybe if Canada is going to have any chance,

00:10:11.460 And I am hoping for a successful option two on October 19th.

00:10:16.400 If Canada is going to have any chance, we need complete constitutional reform.

00:10:20.580 The fact that seven provinces and 50% of the population can hold us completely hostage to any change is not going to lead to a freer and a fairer and a more prosperous Alberta.

00:10:32.380 So I think it was a French political scientist,

00:10:36.380 Duvergay, won a Nobel Prize in the late 1950s,

00:10:40.180 proving that in a first-past-the-post system,

00:10:42.540 it always leads to two parties crowded in the middle,

00:10:45.560 everyone scared to split the vote.

00:10:47.560 When I was kicked out of caucus, UCP caucus by Jason Kenney,

00:10:51.420 I had people go to the mic when Daniel Smith became the leader

00:10:54.920 and say, if you don't get Drew back in,

00:10:56.660 if you don't make room for him and his ideas and our ideas,

00:10:59.740 we're not going to support you.

00:11:01.520 At the end of the day, I didn't run as an independent, but when the election was held, I went to my friends that said that very same thing to the mic.

00:11:10.620 100% unanimously, they all voted for Danielle anyway, because they were terrified to split the vote.

00:11:16.500 That's the reality of our system.

00:11:19.000 So I think, and I hate to comment on how successful the NDP has been federally with just the balance of power.

00:11:26.500 They've never formed government.

00:11:28.200 My goodness, we have Canada, trillions of dollars in debt.

00:11:31.800 We have ineffective health care, dental care, daycare, and all these things that aren't working because of them.

00:11:39.100 So I think like the Bloc Quebecois, we need a party in Ottawa that truly represents Albertans and will only run in the 37 Alberta federal seats.

00:11:50.160 and then someday like the party or like the party quebecois we need a federal party i'm sorry a

00:11:57.620 provincial party rather that is focused on alberta being the freest and most prosperous place if we

00:12:03.440 can't win in a first pass the post system and if we can't change it let's be as strategic as possible

00:12:08.880 phil when you were first running to be elected you know you might have been somewhat of a maverick

00:12:15.800 what ingredients would have helped you achieve success or what did help you achieve success we've

00:12:23.260 got a hundred odd people here who are highly engaged how would you let's say we do want to

00:12:28.540 get more people of like mind into actual office what resources can we provide or how can we apply

00:12:35.060 our time to make that happen we've got people in this room who are running have been running

00:12:40.680 and how could we make more of them actually cross that hurdle?

00:12:45.560 Well, I want to first say that when I first ran for the legislature,

00:12:48.660 I was a Constitution Party candidate,

00:12:50.240 and I appreciate the Constitution Party still existing in Idaho

00:12:54.400 and the Libertarian Party because they create pressure on issues,

00:12:58.460 and we need the pressure.

00:12:59.720 Politics is about creating pressure

00:13:01.680 and also creating the pressure relief valve where you want it to be

00:13:04.860 to get done what you want to get done.

00:13:06.520 but it helped me to first run and get name recognition. And then I had a couple of

00:13:12.820 Republicans who said, you know, you would win if you joined our party. And they kind of mentored me

00:13:17.120 and helped me, I guess, make some correct decisions. And I got elected the next time

00:13:23.240 I ran as a Republican. But to win an election, it takes money and it takes a lot of work. And

00:13:28.900 there's a lot of money out there if you're willing to sell your vote or trade your vote,

00:13:34.800 or if you're easily manipulated, there's lots of money for those types of candidates, but there's

00:13:41.040 not a whole lot of money for very principled people. So I would say for the people running

00:13:46.460 for office that represent your values, support them financially. Also support them with your

00:13:51.660 time and effort. It takes a lot of work, a lot of legwork, a lot of time to win an election.

00:13:57.360 Okay. Michael, do you then want to send a message maybe to the younger people who are not

00:14:03.720 as engaged we've had a bunch here but what could we do to bring bring more people here right because

00:14:11.760 i'm concerned that we always have a middle age and upper demographic at events like these

00:14:17.800 and how can we get more more young people involved basically i think the biggest problem that i have

00:14:24.600 seen recently in politics is that a lot of the older generation and those that are in like the

00:14:29.160 more elitist circles in political parties and in politics in general like to shy away from young

00:14:33.960 people because young people you know scary they have new ideas to bring to the table they have

00:14:38.200 ideas that's maybe outside of the status quo you have to have a welcoming environment like i don't

00:14:43.280 want to sound like i'm a leftist here but you have to have an environment where it opens a dialogue

00:14:47.520 for young people to come in and speak to work with them i i had to work with the conservative party

00:14:53.620 for a long time where they constantly held back ideals that i wanted to bring into the party that

00:14:59.000 I thought that would bring more liberty ideas into the party.

00:15:02.640 And I know many young people who have left and joined either my party or the People's

00:15:06.860 Party since then because they've suffered from the same issues.

00:15:10.140 You have to make it accessible.

00:15:11.360 You have to bring it to a level that young people are welcome to be involved.

00:15:15.780 I haven't seen it.

00:15:16.520 Really, I haven't.

00:15:17.140 In the status quo, whether it be with the Liberal Party or the Conservative Party, I

00:15:21.900 think I actually have to agree with Drew again with the New Democrat thing.

00:15:25.120 I think the reason why they're succeeding so well is because they've done just that.

00:15:29.300 They've opened the door for young people to take control of the party and actually bring in a new breath of fresh air.

00:15:35.980 And that's why they're doing so well, I think, with young people.

00:15:40.720 And just generally, you have to give them opportunities for growth.

00:15:46.000 Phil, we've got a new party here with Drew.

00:15:49.840 Do you have any comments on how that party does not become just a debate club like the Constitution Party of the United States?

00:15:58.000 Well, when I was a member of the Constitution Party, at least in Idaho, that was true.

00:16:03.000 Today, there's more numbers and there's more people working hard.

00:16:06.180 So it just was the sign of the times back then.

00:16:09.160 But I like the idea of limiting yourself just to one province and focusing on that to see if you can have some success.

00:16:17.620 So it sounds like he's got a good strategic plan.

00:16:21.020 Well, Drew, do you want to comment on the, I mean, I don't know the history, to be frank,

00:16:25.560 of how some parties in Alberta basically overturned the two-party, the duopoly,

00:16:35.600 and just built a new party.

00:16:37.600 Like, how did the Wild Rose rise?

00:16:39.700 There were some dynamics there that led one party to dislodge the other.

00:16:43.160 Yes, Alberta was very, very fortunate 12 years ago. We had two conservative parties in government and official opposition. The talk and the policy and the legislature debate and the lawmaking was mostly around conservative values and conservative direction.

00:17:02.280 So Alberta, with its strong streak of conservatism, led to that.

00:17:07.460 The progressive conservatives at that point that had been in power for 40 years, and 40 years is a long, long time, too long, had drifted considerably left.

00:17:16.160 Adopted the name progressive to go with conservative.

00:17:18.880 Had a great past premier named Ralph Klein, who allowed ideas and conservative dissent in his caucus and drifted instead to premiers and leaders that didn't allow that.

00:17:29.800 And so it was an opportune time for us conservatives to, first of all, try to put pressure on the progressive conservatives to be more conservative. And secondly, when that didn't work, it gave us the opportunity to form official opposition.

00:17:43.960 and at one point, two years into official opposition, the polling was showing us a year

00:17:48.840 away from forming a majority government with 90% of the seats. Unfortunately, some floor crossings

00:17:54.740 happened to destroy all that opportunity, but we were there. We were successful with two

00:17:59.540 conservative parties. Yeah, but do you want to comment on how, was it just that the progressive

00:18:04.780 conservatives had moved too far away from their base? Was there a particular ingredient or strategy

00:18:10.660 you employed to dislodge them?

00:18:14.100 Yeah, thank you.

00:18:14.660 There was three or four things,

00:18:17.060 even though currently in Alberta,

00:18:20.100 our oil and gas business pays us,

00:18:22.420 the people of Alberta,

00:18:23.200 about $20 billion a year.

00:18:24.980 It's a fantastic source of revenue.

00:18:28.480 And at that point in time,

00:18:29.760 they were paying a considerable amount,

00:18:31.800 but the progressive conservatives in power

00:18:33.600 decided it was time to extract more from them.

00:18:36.560 Even though they had set up investments

00:18:38.420 and set up plans,

00:18:39.560 the current government wanted to increase the taxes on them that caused great concern

00:18:43.860 for some unknown reason the powers in be put in the alberta land stewardship act bill 36

00:18:50.880 they wanted to streamline financial planning local and municipal planning they wanted to

00:18:57.860 make it so the provincial government of alberta could take away first of all even your title to

00:19:02.360 your land but your covenants on your land your caveats that ran with your land like your water

00:19:06.540 rights without giving you two things, full and fair compensation and access to courts.

00:19:12.200 And this created quite a strong rural objection to that. And that led to the formation of the

00:19:19.220 Wild Rose. And the other thing, at this point in time, I do not support Danielle Smith. I'm

00:19:26.020 absolutely looking for somebody who believes in smaller government, lower taxes, and doing all

00:19:31.220 the things that Quebec has. But I do owe her a bit of gratitude. I owe her a lot of gratitude

00:19:38.820 because when I showed up in 2012, her amazing ability to work helped us all get elected.

00:19:45.460 She worked very hard. She conveyed a good message. And at that point in time, I believed

00:19:51.340 that the conservative values would maybe happen through there. And it's unfortunate for us that

00:19:56.200 didn't okay we've got a few minutes left before i'll finish this one maybe jason levine i feel

00:20:02.060 like you you would be a good guy for a question right now do you know yeah do you have a microphone

00:20:08.060 benita i have a microphone for you jason beautiful um drew uh danielle smith you know her well

00:20:15.060 you've had many conversations with her is she going to make it to the agm uh because i'm going

00:20:20.260 to put it out there that if it's option one, her party is going to turn on her, blame her for it.

00:20:26.380 If it's option two, she's made it clear that that's not a mandate she's ready for.

00:20:30.660 So is she going to make it past the referendum all the way to the AGM?

00:20:34.940 I believe she is because my experience in party politics is the staffers and the MLAs will circle

00:20:44.220 the wagons to protect the status quo. It's a pretty comfortable position. It's a

00:20:50.020 pretty comfortable opportunity, and she controls, you know, billions of dollars.

00:20:55.060 She controls the media message, and those of us with better ideas or different ideas, 0.96

00:21:02.300 it's a harder game.

00:21:03.860 So I believe that either way she will survive it,

00:21:07.980 but I also believe that someday Alberta will be independent,

00:21:11.980 and Alberta someday will be the free and most prosperous place in the entire world.

00:21:20.020 Thank you.

The Critical Compass Podcast - September 16, 2026

How Freedom Wins in a 2 Party System ｜ Fergus Hodgson, Drew Barnes, Phil Hart & Michael Harris

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