The Critical Compass Podcast - Productive Political Engagement for All Canadians w⧸Eva Chipiuk

00:00:00.000 what can we do to get this conversation going or like because so many times when i try to engage

00:00:05.780 i'm also told don't do it it's a waste of your time which i do find it is often like can we go

00:00:12.880 there do you think or are we like stuck in grade eight or i'm not even actually no i'm not even

00:00:17.780 going to put that to you what can we do to change the conversation because i think it's i think

00:00:23.620 anything is possible if we put in enough james is more moderate than me he's he's more he's more

00:00:29.420 level-headed so i'll let him lead with this one excellent the i yeah i'm a little bit stoked when

00:00:35.300 it comes to conversations i guess removing the emotion that's my suggestion first is that um

00:00:42.500 a lot of the times so if somebody does engage a little bit and if they try to attack you for like

00:00:51.720 your character or this or that or they throw a label on there i don't engage with that i try to

00:00:56.220 just refocus on like well what do you mean by this and like kind of don't let it get into that

00:01:03.440 because as soon as you feed into that it just amplifies into a a big just it's a punching match

00:01:09.440 at that point and so i think that's part of it is is accurately framing somebody's position

00:01:16.740 and on our side as well like if when we're engaging in a conversation what i try to do is i try to

00:01:23.880 understand somebody's position and i will steel man that so present their position in the best

00:01:29.440 possible light and then poke a hole in it and say this is where it fails and if you can do that

00:01:36.140 then that shows that you've actually you've actually understood what they're what they're trying to

00:01:42.380 communicate

00:01:42.940 good day everyone welcome to another episode of dialogue over division and today i have two of

00:02:05.980 my friends from critical compass podcast i have james and mike with me and we're going to do things a

00:02:11.640 little bit different where they're going to be asking me some questions about the podcast my

00:02:16.500 background and i hope to have a very open and respectful discussion and i say that for a reason

00:02:25.100 because that's what i think we're all trying to create here and so that's going to be one of the key

00:02:30.300 topics that we're going to talk about today is where did things kind of break down and how we can

00:02:35.900 have some healing maybe we'll put it so thank you guys for doing this i think this is going to be a

00:02:41.500 lot of fun so i'll turn it over to you if you guys can give a bit of an introduction

00:02:45.460 well thanks so much eva uh i'm uh mike from the critical compass and a pleasure to be chatting with

00:02:52.560 you today thanks for carving out some time for us uh yeah i think today we'll just have a little bit

00:02:58.360 of a discussion you know we'll um you know we're going to be posting this on both of our channels so

00:03:02.660 we'll do a little bit of a i don't think we need to introduce you too much probably the people who

00:03:07.620 follow us follow you as well but uh we can uh we can have some good back and forth i think and uh

00:03:13.080 i think james probably has uh has a couple good ones uh good ones to start so you go ahead james

00:03:18.280 yeah i guess part of us starting the critical compass was to kind of share our journey of exploring

00:03:25.680 these issues like like how do you navigate and find what is true and that requires dialogue and

00:03:33.240 i think many of us have come from a journey where we've used to think a certain way and we used to

00:03:38.460 have certain assumptions about like how canada worked how our institutions worked um and that

00:03:45.380 has shifted over time and i'm curious what were some key moments that kind of like being in law

00:03:53.800 uh what were some key moments that maybe you maybe shifted you towards uh this public role of of kind

00:04:02.300 of speaking out and and kind of trying to maybe you're sticking up for these so-called freedom fighters

00:04:12.400 but um for a lack of better words um yeah thanks for the question and it's so funny that like i find it

00:04:22.080 so incredibly strange two things that have come out of this people paint me with some ideology that in

00:04:29.560 my view is not at all correct and then also to being in the public eye this is not something that i

00:04:36.640 uh expected at all in the last few years or ever really but especially the part with um the ideology

00:04:45.140 is what i'd like to talk about more too um because i thought you were going there at first and

00:04:51.300 i've said this before on podcasts is i've been previously i used to work as a landowner lawyer so

00:05:00.060 representing landowners in alberta against big oil and gas companies and we know alberta energy's big

00:05:07.760 industry and or the government when the government was taking land from landowners and i was

00:05:14.360 labeled like called a tree hugger then and now i'm representing citizens of canada where their

00:05:23.980 personal rights are allegedly being violated and now i'm being called a right-wing extremist like i've

00:05:29.880 gone from one one end of the spectrum to the other and i don't think i'm either i think i'm somewhere in

00:05:36.180 in the middle and particularly when i'm representing people um that have been harmed or injured it's not

00:05:42.740 necessarily my ideology either it's that's the work that i'm doing so there's been so much confusion about

00:05:49.620 that which i find so interesting just to observe one thing i don't think i've said publicly is

00:05:56.820 i've probably voted every single different party that is available in canada so here you get that

00:06:06.440 and like to always be labeled a conservative which i don't mind being called that now i'm getting more

00:06:16.820 involved as i make publicly aware with a party because i want to get become more civically active

00:06:22.980 uh and engaged because i i'm recognizing the importance of it but that's another thing that

00:06:29.620 like it just is so strange when you put yourself out there publicly how quickly people are to are

00:06:37.140 ready to paint you with this or that and um i hope we get into this but maybe i'll just start with it is

00:06:45.380 this whole dialogue over division to me it's having a conversation i enjoy conversations i like i

00:06:52.980 i do i don't understand how we've gotten here and i invited one person max faucet to come on the show

00:06:59.700 and i have to say i was incredibly nervous starting it because i didn't want to be yelled at basically

00:07:08.660 i was like i'm doing this because i think it's important that we have a conversation but

00:07:13.780 i didn't want to be yelled at in the end obviously he didn't yell at me and i think he recognized that

00:07:20.100 i'm not some lunatic um we had quite a nice conversation i think of course we had

00:07:26.660 very different ideas about things but we had a respectful conversation what happened after

00:07:33.460 unfortunately it was he just maintained that same behavior as before our conversation where he was

00:07:41.300 on my case about this or that and i'm like um i don't have the time to respond to every post

00:07:48.100 or commentary you make i i'm more prepared to have a conversation like adults like i don't know why

00:07:55.780 things have become so short and you know labeled instead of let's just have a conversation like

00:08:05.860 people used to do once upon a time i think maybe in uh in modern uh maybe twitter influenced culture

00:08:14.740 everyone is everyone's so focused on trying to get that you know 140 or 280 character equip you know

00:08:21.220 that perfectly worded just slice right through the heart and they and they take that into the

00:08:27.380 you know into the real world with them where it doesn't belong don't get me wrong i like those like

00:08:32.580 short characters like straight to the heart ones once in a while but i also i do i post long format on

00:08:39.940 at twitter as well because i think there's an opportunity to engage there as well and to help

00:08:44.900 elevate and educate but you like that's that's not the place to have an actual conversation i i don't

00:08:52.740 very often have um back and forths with people because i don't find that's productive like even

00:08:59.460 texting with your friends you know sometimes the conversation goes off why would i do that with

00:09:04.500 perfect strangers on a public forum like maybe people should think about that a little bit too

00:09:10.180 um but anyway so that one i i i tried i really tried and i thought that maybe it would open more

00:09:17.380 opportunities and maybe it will still sorry to interrupt one thing i've i've observed is

00:09:26.900 sometimes people in these conversations they will they're actually having a conversation with

00:09:33.300 what they think you believe rather than actually addressing what you believe outright and that's

00:09:38.900 where i'm always curious to if somebody uses a term well we got to define that term we got to agree

00:09:45.300 that we're actually talking about the same thing if not sometimes you can be talking past each other you

00:09:49.780 can be you could be missing the mark just because you haven't actually decided that you're focused on the

00:09:56.980 same thing and then you mentioned that you're labeled you're labeled alt-right or right wing just because

00:10:05.940 now you've you've kind of helped defend some citizens for their rights who are not on the left now um

00:10:15.940 but what what happens is people subscribe a whole other subset of beliefs onto these labels um this middle

00:10:25.300 ground is something where if you ask a lot of people the average person's somewhere in the

00:10:29.700 middle on like a lot of issues i i feel like there's a little bit more commonality than there are

00:10:35.700 differences and you see this you talk about immigration uh just as one little example most

00:10:41.940 people think that there should be a limit because if you ask people well in canada should we have 10

00:10:48.020 million people move in in 2025 people say oh that's too too much so all we're disagreeing with right

00:10:56.660 now is where should the limit be rather than like because everybody has a limit it's just we're disagreeing

00:11:04.340 about the exact number of it and and often these things get framed in black and white terms and we

00:11:11.140 need more of that nuance and kind of this this shared understanding well i think that's such a

00:11:17.620 great example too and it's not i for me at least it's not just the amount of people because i don't

00:11:25.780 think um i have enough information to even comment on that like what it is i think is how it affects

00:11:33.540 people and for me whatever everything i do and don't get me wrong some of some of the clients that i

00:11:39.700 have i very much believe in the ideology as well but it's all about holding the government to account

00:11:44.980 so if we have the information about okay we're going to bring in x many um immigrants wonderful

00:11:51.460 great like i understand canada was built on immigrants as well with immigrants but we they

00:11:57.300 need the facilities to live as well so let's just ensure that we're doing this responsibly and then

00:12:03.220 let's have a conversation about how many people are but first and foremost perhaps

00:12:09.300 elected officials you should be listening and talking to the citizens that are already here

00:12:14.900 and what their concerns are what their issues are what their fears are let's just talk about them and

00:12:22.420 that's where i think that um there's been a big this is what's causing a bit of the gap and the lack of

00:12:31.300 trust in our public institutions as i've been seeing more so recently elected officials are talking at us

00:12:41.540 rather than with us or to us they're just saying this is what we're doing the end and not even

00:12:48.420 sometimes saying why which is would be helpful and would be nice but ideally it would be what are your

00:12:56.660 thoughts on this and wow i think that would transform things i think that that would start

00:13:03.300 getting people more civically engaged that would also start building trust and repairing that that

00:13:09.220 bridge that uh we have that's quite open right now and then i wonder whether it's sometimes done

00:13:15.540 on purpose or not so maybe they just like doing their work you know over there and not bothering but

00:13:22.420 i think it's also on us to get involved yeah it makes me yeah the way that i and i i think we've

00:13:28.740 talked about this on on our show before where it almost feels sometimes like maybe you know if you

00:13:35.940 want to say that there's a you know a government media apparatus of some type that kind of maybe

00:13:42.260 focuses and keeps you know pretty tight control of the messaging it almost feels like they don't want

00:13:47.300 us to discuss these types of things because they this is giving them the benefit of the doubt that

00:13:53.220 they don't want the conversation to go off the rails and be like you know if you start talking about

00:13:58.420 limiting immigration then before you know what people will be talking about you know they'll be

00:14:03.060 saying racist things about you know muslim immigrants or something like they go way too far the

00:14:08.580 other way as if you couldn't have any nuanced discussion in the middle there that has nothing to do

00:14:13.940 with either race or religion or anything like that but is surely a but is simply a practical

00:14:20.420 conversation on the sheer number right a hundred percent and i like that you brought up the media and

00:14:28.500 how it's kind of captured or worse and you know with everything that's occurred over the last four

00:14:35.300 years that has been highlighted with the problems i think it's also great i'm a forever optimist or

00:14:43.860 however you say it because i also see that it's caused a lot of people to do things that they

00:14:49.140 probably wouldn't have for example me doing this podcast yourselves doing yours and i think that's

00:14:55.620 good and i think that's healthy and helpful so it really exposes things as well um and i think just

00:15:02.500 today the cbc had or somebody reported that the cbc had like the worst viewership it ever had in a long

00:15:10.100 time with the 1.5 billion dollars and the amount of content creators that they have there so that

00:15:17.860 goes to show you the power that we have all the time if we're willing to take some ownership

00:15:27.060 i wanted to ask you a quick question um sorry james uh just to go back for a second uh based on what

00:15:33.780 you were saying earlier in your career when you were being accused of being a tree hugger versus now

00:15:38.500 where you're all right do you find uh any difference in the degree or severity of the either the the media

00:15:47.300 or the um or just kind of interpersonal like people who are speak against you like do you find it was

00:15:54.580 any more or less vitriolic on either side wow yeah i hadn't thought about that so that's a

00:16:00.740 really interesting and good question with the landowner work it didn't because it doesn't affect

00:16:09.620 you personally um or people personally i don't think it it didn't ever get as much attention as

00:16:17.700 anything to do with the copit mandates and restrictions and all of that stuff so i didn't

00:16:23.860 see the media being particularly vitriolic it was more reporting the facts but it just didn't get as

00:16:30.820 much um viewership there was some and some were more controversial some of the projects so they got

00:16:37.620 more press and attention but in terms of um anything to do with the covid and mandates and vaccines wow

00:16:47.300 has it been obviously as we've all seen vitriolic and uh take it even a step further is i don't do

00:16:56.100 criminal law but the criminal lawyers that got involved in uh tamara leach's case chris barbers pat king

00:17:03.940 and the others they've said i think publicly too is that they've never received so much hate mail and

00:17:11.860 vitriol that they've seen and they represent murderers and rapists and pedophiles so that goes i think

00:17:20.660 that really highlights maybe where you were going to how like there it just became so built up and it was

00:17:28.340 just acceptable to call people criminal really bad criminal um allegations like to call somebody terrorist

00:17:41.140 in my view is not something you say lightly that's incredibly serious and that word was being thrown

00:17:47.220 around like it was nothing and nobody stopped it nobody in a position of power stopped it in fact

00:17:54.020 they encouraged it and the media allowed it and encouraged it and i think that is so wrong

00:18:00.260 so i've noticed two um two parallels because right now you have us you have people you have an apparatus

00:18:09.860 which is declaring a moral high ground and then saying what is right and what is wrong and i think

00:18:15.300 the average person they fall into that and they just they it's almost like they're on autopilot just

00:18:22.420 kind of attacking what is wrong because they feel it's morally justified at this point um and the the

00:18:29.140 first problem or the first part of this is that not everybody has the time and attention to we physically can't

00:18:37.140 learn everything we can't jump into everything we can't understand uh every single issue that pops

00:18:43.380 up so we have to defer to experts to a certain point but we've exported almost too much of our thinking

00:18:50.980 and too much to experts that we don't really have a a bearing of where we are kind of on an individual

00:18:58.260 level if you think about the average person kind of sleep walks throughout their day they're on their

00:19:03.860 phone the general amount of awareness about what they're either putting in their bodies what they're

00:19:09.380 eating what they're doing their habits their sleep it's not there because most people are not aware of

00:19:15.620 kind of their moment to moment life so the people that are on autopilot in this case are kind of put on

00:19:23.860 autopilot in a political sense and we saw that with kobe but we also see that in the this world of the

00:19:32.820 dei the diversity equity and inclusion where um we're told some supposed truths about how the world

00:19:42.020 works um that the world is split into like oppressed versus oppressor and because of that we are able to

00:19:51.860 demonize certain groups because they are part of the problem and we don't have to treat them like we

00:19:58.100 would other groups because it's justified to demonize a group if they are morally in the wrong

00:20:07.060 according to that ideology so i i've noticed a couple parallels there even though these belief

00:20:12.820 structures are kind of still in their own vacuums the way that it manifests is is similar i'm not sure if

00:20:20.180 you you've noticed that as well well on on the moral bit i think that there's so much so much going on

00:20:29.140 there but what i would comment on is that i think that this and this is why i've chosen to do what i'm

00:20:36.900 doing is i'm really trying to educate first and foremost because i see that people are having these

00:20:44.180 heated discussions debates and disagreements over things that aren't even correct sometimes

00:20:50.980 and um like one good example i think is the mandates mandates federally versus provincially versus

00:20:58.020 employers and nobody has taken the time and this is where i think the media really failed the most

00:21:06.020 maybe or the government itself or maybe the people again i can't figure it out still but that there's

00:21:11.220 been so much confusion about it for example like we put out i i have two class actions that i'm involved

00:21:18.900 in in alberta and one is for businesses that lost uh that had damages over the mandates in alberta

00:21:28.500 because the mandates were found to be illegal and then one was for vaccine injured people and then

00:21:33.700 people are like what about my employer i lost my job and i don't i i'm not mad but it just goes to show

00:21:43.620 me that it's unfortunate because people don't understand the relationship of how there was a

00:21:51.300 mandate imposed on them and who they can seek damages from and nobody cares to help educate them

00:21:59.700 and i also see the same thing during like the convoy or something somebody said something about the

00:22:06.660 mandates and then somebody responds you idiot it was federal mandate said the federal government wire

00:22:13.380 these are provincial and i'm just like there were federal there but like you know we can't keep

00:22:21.940 i can't obviously correct everyone but it's just unfortunate that nobody in the media is like okay

00:22:29.460 let's let's make sure we're all clear on this or the government was very clear with it clearly

00:22:35.220 somebody didn't do their job that had a big platform because the amount of confusion out there

00:22:43.380 is it's unfortunate yeah or you could say that the uh that the the institution that we have in place

00:22:51.300 right now did a very good job in not letting people specifically not letting people know about those

00:22:57.540 things well and and that's kind of where i go with the chicken and the egg is that is that the goal

00:23:03.620 so that then nobody's holding them to account everyone's confused try scratching their heads

00:23:08.660 what do we do who do we who do we sue who do we question so that is the chicken and the egg and then

00:23:16.020 if that is the case then look in the mirror is my answer you need to educate yourself and elevate yourself

00:23:22.420 which i think that for everyone in the end because if they did a very good job with that

00:23:28.500 and then this is the outcome this is really what they want like a society that's mad at each other

00:23:33.540 and and hating each other and families divided and friends lost this is what you wanted this is this

00:23:40.020 the the leader you want to be and you want this to be your legacy okay if if i was in charge i would

00:23:49.220 want more people to be elevated and holding me to account and asking me questions and saying hey

00:23:55.540 maybe we could do this maybe we should do that because then i think in the end it's beneficial

00:24:00.340 for everyone but i i don't see that happening right now yeah we were mentioning a little bit before um

00:24:08.100 before we hit record here about um you know people you know rather than kind of sitting around and and

00:24:13.380 not doing anything than just whining about stuff actually taking a you know taking a stand and and

00:24:18.900 and and taking the responsibility for educating yourself and what we had during specifically it

00:24:25.860 was very it became very obvious in the covet years you could probably point to uh times before that where

00:24:32.180 it was still present in in the i'm gonna say the term media apparatus again i don't know why i'm saying

00:24:37.300 that i've never said that before in my life but uh the media apparatus was very uh uh during covet was

00:24:43.460 was very clear about the the fact that if you were somebody who wanted to quote unquote do your own

00:24:50.580 research you were a an extremist of some type you were right wing you were uh uh an anti-science you

00:24:58.260 know anti-vaxxer you were all these different names if you wanted to educate yourself on anything

00:25:03.140 other than what was being told to you through very very mainstream channels so um i think probably

00:25:09.540 what that does is it probably has a uh like a knock-on effect for other you know if i'm not

00:25:15.300 supposed to question you know what is you know what are in these medical products well then i'm also

00:25:20.580 not supposed to question the invocation of the emergencies act and i'm also not supposed to question

00:25:25.300 all these other things that you know that the government does or that an institution does

00:25:30.180 and then you end up with an apathetic population yeah well i think that we were already and sure

00:25:38.100 that is what people were saying and i was reading things and then being accused of misinformation

00:25:44.820 i'm like literally i just forwarded something that was in the wall street journal like i i that was a

00:25:51.860 while ago and um yeah that does happen there's a comedian that said

00:25:59.300 you know when they were saying that that used to be called reading when they said why are you doing

00:26:05.540 your own research that's reading and if we're going to allow somebody to suggest we can't read and

00:26:14.260 inform ourselves again for me it's look in the mirror why wouldn't you take the opportunity to

00:26:23.460 inform yourself and learn from yourself and understand and maybe this goes back this is it's

00:26:29.780 a funny story of how i went into law because i think this is the reason when somebody asked me is

00:26:35.460 my mom had three like traffic violations and she's polish background or born in poland so her english

00:26:42.340 is not great and i'm like okay mom i'll go with you to the courthouse because she was gonna fight the

00:26:47.540 tickets and i'm like first year university i think and the prosecutor was so dismissive and just kind of

00:26:58.260 waved at us and yelled just pay half of the tickets and go away and we're like but so did she do something

00:27:06.100 wrong why and i just didn't like it i thought that was so uncomfortable i didn't think it was really fair

00:27:14.100 or just and it's supposed to be justice and i was like okay i'm not gonna let that happen again so

00:27:21.140 i think i'm gonna go to law school and that was how i made my decision because i didn't like the

00:27:26.020 feeling of being uncomfortable there and somebody kind of maybe taking advantage maybe not i don't

00:27:32.100 know if that was a good deal but i just didn't like it and i went to law i decided to go to law school

00:27:37.060 yeah in in that case you're kind of seeing how it almost seems like maybe that judge how many of

00:27:46.020 those cases do they see a day like if you have apathy in that part of the institution and does that breed

00:27:54.820 and engaged like citizens or will would your mom get apathetic after that like that's not that's not

00:28:02.260 building trust in that institution from the people if that's their experience it's it's not helping so

00:28:10.660 yeah well and then my my mom came from uh communist poland so the what like she sought crazy control of

00:28:19.220 government that you had no choice with anything um so that was like probably there she wasn't too concerned

00:28:26.580 but then when things were happening over covet she was you know definitely not comfortable

00:28:32.100 with the direction canada was taking and how how people didn't really see or notice or question it

00:28:39.620 either that's an interesting comment because i i remember reading uh some post by uh you're familiar

00:28:46.420 with roman baber mm-hmm yeah so i i read you know that was sort of the first thing i read during

00:28:53.220 covet where i was like hmm this is uh this is interesting somebody who's quite literally come

00:28:57.860 from a country with a history of communism whose families experienced it um and yeah so and i when

00:29:05.300 i looked into it i saw more and more people saying similar things michael malice was saying a similar

00:29:09.940 thing his family's from i think his family's ukrainian um so do you think that that not only in your in

00:29:17.300 your decision to go to law school but where you find yourself now do you think that that kind of

00:29:22.980 family background of a maybe a uh i don't know i don't know it's not genetic but like an inherent

00:29:29.620 sort of uh opposition to authoritarianism is that what's kind of has that powered you through a little

00:29:34.180 bit yeah i don't i don't know if it was that because when i went to law school i didn't i didn't

00:29:39.860 expect again to be taking on these kind of files and and clients and cross-examining the prime minister

00:29:48.260 like there were people in law school that probably would have wanted to do that a lot more the the

00:29:54.340 ones that were you know eager beavers and i was i was there to learn and i was going to figure things

00:30:01.300 out later so i didn't have um some great expectations of challenging the government in any way shape or form

00:30:09.380 but i think it goes to like how vulnerable my mom and i felt and then

00:30:15.220 the people i represent generally are pretty vulnerable and i'll even use the crazy word

00:30:21.620 oppressed like landowners against huge oil and gas companies who's got the upper hand who's got the

00:30:30.180 resources who's got every the ability to navigate the legal regulatory system obviously oil company same

00:30:40.980 with government on the landowner side as well then this is the first time i've done things of this nature

00:30:48.500 like i well i don't think there's many lawyers that did this one thing people need to understand

00:30:56.420 too is a lot of charter challenges um personal right issues that have come up in canada quite often

00:31:05.620 it has to do with criminal law because it's how far did it go with the accused where the charter

00:31:10.260 rights breached not always but that is somewhere where there a lot of it is challenged so then we

00:31:16.820 learn from that experience okay how far do our rights extend how far can the government go and

00:31:22.260 through those cases we learn but it's not like you know canada is built on a ton of these precedents

00:31:29.380 from people challenging and we were talking about this a little bit early before the we started

00:31:34.660 recording is that's one thing um i think is healthy and good especially in a democracy and a society as

00:31:43.700 young as canada is we need to challenge these things in court so that it's out in the open we talk

00:31:49.780 about it we see how far the government the courts think the government should go then we have an

00:31:55.540 opportunity to uh elect people based on that information and how they take that those issue

00:32:02.420 this decisions one thing with the states is they're incredibly litigious they always have

00:32:08.820 been compared to canada and i think that's healthy and i think it's good because people are standing

00:32:13.780 up for the rights questioning these things and it's important to have that information knowledge

00:32:19.780 case law understanding precedence all those things are good and helpful because sometimes we're kind

00:32:26.660 of like uh am i going too far i don't know and we don't we don't ever figure it out

00:32:36.340 yeah it seems like without those mechanisms or without those with that without that being tested very often

00:32:44.100 you can go a lot too far without finding where these these edges should be um and in the states they're

00:32:52.580 going to be testing it they're sample they're sampling and they're testing it out more frequently so

00:32:57.780 they're gonna be constantly in this push pull of where the where the edges really really are um and i think

00:33:06.900 we know that like given given the fact that governments can create money out of thin air and

00:33:14.740 with these ultimately unlimited pockets the i think there's a natural tendency for government to expand

00:33:24.740 uh and to push the limits and you'll you'll never see a like a government department

00:33:30.580 consolidate and like downsize itself if not for like outside pressure so there is no self-limiting

00:33:40.020 factor and i feel like in the states their constitution has more self-limiting built in

00:33:47.460 and canada is maybe a little bit more lacking in that kind of in in those constraints

00:33:53.860 yeah i totally agree with you and i think it's it's just so important to have those checks

00:34:04.420 at some point anyway um and i don't see that we're really doing that in well we are but it's also i

00:34:12.340 don't find incredibly strategic sometimes too um we've seen alberta now challenging the federal

00:34:19.060 government a bit and you could see that some of those cases take a long time and i think

00:34:23.620 that's good it was very informative to both all provinces and the federal government of how

00:34:30.580 far they can go and now moving forward i think everyone has a clearer understanding so again just

00:34:36.500 helpful i i think um i'm glad james brought up uh the u.s constitution there because i had a maybe this

00:34:47.220 is a ridiculous question and it is a show unto itself but i wanted to ask you something specifically about

00:34:53.940 your thoughts on um section one of the canadian charter um in comparison to the actual enshrined

00:35:03.060 right to free speech in the u.s do you believe that um when issues like covid happen

00:35:12.900 do you think that the presence of section one in our charter subject to reasonable limits do you think that

00:35:20.260 that that has a inherently limiting effect on anything that any normal citizen could ever

00:35:29.620 possibly do to challenge an overreaching government like do you think that we are always

00:35:35.140 going to be kind of inherently hamstrung by that provision or or am i am i wrong with that what do you think

00:35:42.340 i think yes that we we are always hamstrung yeah well who defines what those reasonable

00:35:55.300 kind of i was going to ask why so that is that that was your why

00:35:59.780 so i'm very excited for you guys to read my book reconnect to canada when it comes out because i have

00:36:08.020 a chapter on it and this is one of the reasons i think education is the reason it is so important

00:36:17.860 and i was kind of tired of people calling the charter toilet paper i understand that people feel that um

00:36:27.220 there has been a lack that with the charter protecting rights and freedoms

00:36:34.500 but it's interesting to hear your perspective and that's why i asked you first because there's a lot

00:36:39.780 of cases where it did protect people's rights and freedoms so covid was a crazy time and did it even

00:36:52.100 how many case can you name how many any cases where it actually actually went through the whole charter

00:37:00.900 argument on a covid case because nothing that i can think of so that they get thrown out before that

00:37:07.940 like a lot of these things like they avoided pushing it that far and kind of like the process is the

00:37:14.900 punishment and the pain of life i won't go that far but yes yes kind of

00:37:25.060 so i think they're all the process is important being strategic and smart is also important

00:37:31.780 so the biggest example would be the peckford challenge um so the one on mobility rights

00:37:39.220 federal government says you can't travel so the charter was the charter right of mobility right was

00:37:46.660 never quite came into question was never examined by the court because the court found it was moot

00:37:53.060 people had the right to travel and we shouldn't waste court resources on it do i agree with that decision

00:37:59.060 not necessarily um but that's the decision so it didn't go to a charter thing and everyone's yelling

00:38:04.740 about the their charter rights yeah i agree and i really wish the court heard it so that we would

00:38:11.220 have that discussion so we would have that precedent yeah there's probably a very good reason they didn't

00:38:18.260 want to hear it because how can you say people that couldn't travel didn't have their charter rights

00:38:25.460 violated so there's your answer maybe if you think it through without stopping at the first thing um

00:38:35.460 with respect to the emergencies act that what do you know what that decision said

00:38:42.980 it said it was unconstitutional and it violated charter rights so what happened with section one it

00:38:48.980 didn't stop any it didn't it didn't allow the government to do it the court said you guys went way too

00:38:55.060 far of course we know right now the federal government is challenging it i think i don't think

00:38:59.860 that's going to go anywhere i could be wrong but so there's two examples where actually one example

00:39:07.140 where it succeeded and one where it just didn't even it didn't have that scrutiny and there's tons

00:39:12.900 of examples of charter applications at the supreme court where you know either they said yes or no but

00:39:20.020 it went through a serious section one charter scrutiny so yeah i i get the frustration but

00:39:26.180 there's more to the picture and that's where i was like i'm not i never got into a debate with anybody

00:39:31.940 on it online because i'm like i can't have this conversation with you you need four years of law

00:39:39.780 school before we can have a well and there actually i disagree with you there and that's why i wrote the

00:39:44.980 book because i think this is such important information for every canadian i really hope

00:39:49.940 every canadian reads my book when it's out because it will just make everybody a little bit smarter

00:39:55.620 that's good and and if and if it can make people a little bit more confident and maybe speaking up

00:39:59.700 when they when something feels wrong you know and actually uh to your point about section six the uh

00:40:05.860 mobility rights that's what you know that meme on the internet of like what radicalized you

00:40:10.180 this is what radicalized me in the summer of 21 uh we were going to visit my wife's family in pei

00:40:16.420 and that was right when they were doing the this was before the the vax passes but but they were

00:40:21.860 doing the maritime bubble oh god remember that how is that constitutional yeah it was nonsense right

00:40:30.500 nobody exactly and i i wrote a big email and maybe one day i'll find it i wrote a huge email to the to

00:40:36.580 the to the premier and i don't think it got answered but um but i laid out my rationale i was like this

00:40:44.340 does this seems to go against section six this seems to go against this and that and what they were

00:40:48.500 making you do at the time was uh essentially you were supposed to upload a picture of your vaccination

00:40:56.100 records to this website that they created that had a database that was being hosted somewhere offshore

00:41:02.660 like it wasn't even a government site and and i put all that into the email like how am i supposed

00:41:07.300 to know that like even if i was on board with this which i'm not how am i supposed to know that any

00:41:12.020 information i upload to the site remains secure it's not leaked somewhere else this is not a guv

00:41:16.580 like a dot gc or whatever dot pei website um yeah it was a mess it was a mess and like no one cared

00:41:24.100 i don't know if they cared because this is what i'm learning the more i'm involved is i think maybe

00:41:29.540 sometimes they didn't even know like you might have brought up some points they're like oh yeah

00:41:35.540 where are we storing this if you look around and i don't mean to be disrespectful or disparaging but

00:41:45.220 kind of look at some of the people that are elected officials

00:41:49.460 again i'm not trying to be disparaging but if right most regular canadians and i'd say most regular

00:41:56.900 canadians don't really appreciate and understand these things which is fair like we already talked

00:42:02.020 about this is not in their daily wheelhouse do you really expect elected officials that kind of have

00:42:09.940 the same background to automatically know all these things when they get elected particularly at a local

00:42:16.180 level um that's what i'm learning a lot about because right now there's been a lot of um talk about

00:42:22.260 the human rights and having washrooms uh like unisex or something i really think that people in

00:42:29.940 small communities don't understand so they're like oh we don't want to be sued so let's just do this

00:42:34.740 and that right the more i'm involved the more i'm understanding that's actually the case

00:42:40.020 so you might have brought something to their attention that they didn't really know about but

00:42:44.100 privacy rights is something that possibly they didn't even consider crazy so let's yeah it's uh

00:42:52.900 i think elevating the conversation is so important so one thing i've noticed is uh there is a tend

00:43:00.820 kind of in academia for hyper specialization where people will take six years and they'll just dive deep

00:43:08.740 and they'll be an expert in this one tiny little field but if you go anywhere outside of that they're

00:43:16.260 functionally blind to how that interacts and i think you get a little bit of that with certain

00:43:23.780 politicians that they know their area super well but we're we're lacking some some there there's a term

00:43:31.540 called deep generalists these are people who have a like a very deep practical sense of how

00:43:40.500 how the world works and it's not just a surface level they are ones who explore and they they have

00:43:46.740 a feel for things so it's not i feel like if we had a few more of those in politics um that would just

00:43:54.900 help glue things together it'd help kind of get people out of their silos because i think the deferring

00:44:01.380 two experts are like well it's like i don't know enough to even like do a little bit of critical

00:44:06.180 thinking so you defer it to somebody else and there's no like checking up on it there's no

00:44:12.180 accountability there's no like you 100 trust that this one random expert came to a certain conclusion

00:44:18.580 like well what's the rationale on that like how do we make sure that they're not just off because of

00:44:24.500 their own biases so we we need more of this crosstalk it's incredibly important and i think that's a

00:44:35.220 detriment to what we see and what's going on and i think that extends of not just politics and i hadn't

00:44:42.180 really thought about it in politics but i think you're spot on but in science and in law i see like we

00:44:48.020 saw this um during covid again going back to that we had it was if you weren't uh an immunologist then

00:44:59.060 you you can't talk and the immunologist is like i don't know the epidemiologist should be the one

00:45:06.260 we're asking the epidemiologist is like i'm not a vaccinologist the vaccinologist is like no it's public

00:45:11.780 health public and who like that's if you actually look at what happened there was a lot of that and

00:45:18.900 if a lay person wasn't any of those but the experts were pointing fingers at each other as well um and

00:45:26.420 that's why i think you didn't see too many lawyers jumping up and taking these on because these were

00:45:31.620 incredibly complicated high profile public issues as well but very specialized too so a lot of people are

00:45:39.300 specialized in their practice so why would they take away from their comfort and knowledge and then

00:45:46.500 jump into something different so i think that's crossed the board that we that that's causing

00:45:51.780 problem unless you're you know a trades person that is supposed to be doing you know maybe if you're

00:45:57.460 an electricity electrician you shouldn't be jumping into plumbing i think that's appropriate but i think

00:46:03.700 having a bit i but i i suspect an electrician can give you some good guidance on a plumbing whereas

00:46:11.060 in law you almost don't it's like not my area not my specialty ask somebody else and i don't think

00:46:18.500 that's helpful like then we don't build a house if nobody knows anything with that same kind of analogy

00:46:24.420 yeah it's it feels like it maybe has to do with the with the stakes and the whole uh the whole uh

00:46:30.180 cya aspect of it maybe from uh from a law perspective but i was it's funny you say that

00:46:35.380 because i was going to say we need more general contractors in the government rather than uh rather

00:46:39.700 than uh drama teachers but um i think we need no drama teachers because i don't think they add anything to

00:46:47.700 the government yeah well i'm curious what you think about so so then with all that said what do you think about

00:46:55.060 um i i don't know if i could point to an example of a lawyer well maybe i could isn't uh isn't timothy

00:47:00.500 caulfield isn't he technically a political uh isn't he technically a lawyer he's not a he's not a medical

00:47:06.660 he blocked me but he's he's a lawyer yeah like what do you think about the the the lawyers and the

00:47:14.020 and the doctors and the you know the uh the hospitalists who who were on tv saying things like

00:47:20.900 um you know you know the the the hospitalist who what's his name bogach is that is that his name

00:47:26.900 he was on like ctv every night ian bogach i think his name is something like that i didn't watch it from

00:47:32.420 the beginning obviously but i think great you want to make your opinion great but you should also have

00:47:39.060 somebody to challenge that opinion yeah i say wonderful if you're that confident mr caulfield about

00:47:46.740 how awesome vaccines are you should be able to have that conversation with people who don't

00:47:52.660 think vaccines are that awesome especially if you're paid to do it uh then have that conversation

00:48:00.020 so we're not misinformed these dummies on this side as you seem to think and like i i didn't really care

00:48:08.100 so much about him and his narrative but then i did get a bit miffed and annoyed because i challenged him

00:48:14.900 one time and then he immediately blocked me then unblocked me to tell me i don't know who you are

00:48:20.660 and why you're bothering me or whatever and if he knows anybody in the province and i'm not trying to

00:48:27.860 be hoity he should know who i am because i launched a class action in alberta about vaccine injured people

00:48:35.940 he's talking about vaccines being safe and effective and here's a lawsuit where my the representative

00:48:42.580 plaintiff has a vaccine injury perhaps we can have a conversation about that yeah you'd think

00:48:50.020 maybe he could uh maybe he could take a little bit of that six or seven figure grant and for combating

00:48:56.100 vaccine misinformation and put his money where his mouth is but um i uh just as you were talking

00:49:01.540 there sorry i looked up it's isaac bogach that's his name he was the guy on tv all the time i'm pretty

00:49:06.420 sure on global or ctv saying things like um you know every every industry except for food delivery

00:49:12.900 should be shut down you know every everyone should be forced to stay at home and so you've got these

00:49:16.740 people who are supposed who ostensibly experts in their field what was his what was his well he's a um

00:49:25.140 he's a uh he's a specialist in tropical diseases and hiv

00:49:29.380 so so yeah he uh but he had a lot of opinions on how we should we should shut down the the country

00:49:37.940 yeah okay well maybe you're not an economist or a government official so maybe just talk about the

00:49:43.060 tropical disease like why did everyone else not was not allowed to do reading or have an opinion except

00:49:49.300 for the people that were on television so that's like i don't really care have your opinion but then

00:49:55.380 it we should be allowed to test your opinion especially if you're paid with government

00:50:01.220 funds like you were saying part of it is you notice this trope of like well all the experts agree

00:50:07.700 and we know from these professional associations that uh there are doctors who have been reprimanded

00:50:14.420 for speaking out who've for not following the guidelines and then when that happens they say like well

00:50:22.340 they're not credible so you can't listen to them so they just they shrink the pool of experts that

00:50:27.780 you're allowed to listen to and with that what you're getting is you're getting a kind of a

00:50:33.540 manufactured consensus um or an artificially shifted consensus well and i think we were able to disprove

00:50:43.140 that quickly i from my personal experience it was funny i had i had by chance a medical appointment

00:50:49.460 with a doctor like i go and see once in a while and i had just cross-examined the immunologist

00:50:56.100 that the government used as an expert in the federal travel ban case so i heard i had dr bridal give me

00:51:03.220 like a tutorial about immunology and vaccinology and his evidence was given and then i was questioning

00:51:11.300 this doctor her name was bowdish too but from ontario for two days and like you know

00:51:19.460 i i was con conversant enough to be able to question these things so i had seen him and i

00:51:26.020 was just like you know what if i would i would like to have a conversation with you about this i have

00:51:31.460 just had this opportunity to cross-examine my uh the lead expert for the federal government so all of

00:51:38.100 canada and he's like no offense but you're a lawyer and then i'm like okay well what information

00:51:45.700 like what are you basing your information on and he basically said he didn't read anything else except

00:51:51.700 for the the guidelines from the college so goes exactly to your point it became such a small

00:51:59.460 eco-chamber but he hadn't even read i did more research than him than my own doctor and i'm like at

00:52:06.100 least i read at like five studies i read this crazy expert report like you know thick with all of like

00:52:13.700 she had tons of references i had a like tutorial session on immunology i've put in more effort

00:52:22.180 than you doctor so you can't just read a publication from your college and say that you're informed i

00:52:30.580 don't think that's right and i think we again going back to us and our obligation as citizens we could

00:52:36.340 have been challenging our doctors just on that question well what did you read where are you getting

00:52:40.580 that information from can i have that as well yeah that's so tough because then you have

00:52:47.060 at least the experience that i've had with with my family and and you know certain you know uh people

00:52:54.260 in in you know certain institutions or job roles that i've talked to about this um you you run into

00:53:01.060 the issue sometimes of going of like sounding like a conspiracy theorist of sounding like you know your hair

00:53:05.780 is all frazzling you're like well actually if you cross reference this and that but it's it shouldn't

00:53:10.340 be that way because it shows that you have a that you have a passion for something and you have the

00:53:14.420 ability to synthesize information and and find you know find different sources but there's such a uh

00:53:22.100 inherent and i don't know if this is a just a product of of particularly our culture like canada

00:53:27.060 doesn't have as much of a kind of a free-spirited you know wild west sort of culture as the us does but

00:53:32.420 we're not we're not often given the benefit of the doubt when we say that we've you know we've

00:53:37.460 researched something it's often seen as like oh well if you haven't if you haven't followed the

00:53:41.780 guidelines of the respected sources then you're off in dreamland somewhere yeah i guess and where i would

00:53:49.060 just flip it is to say uh well show me i'm always open to be proved wrong like i i don't care if i mean

00:53:56.580 well obviously i care because i i want to be um i don't want to be misinforming people but if i've

00:54:03.140 made an error i would like to know that i was wrong and i'm happy to have that conversation

00:54:08.260 so that's what i actually said to i didn't tell him what i thought before i said i would like to

00:54:13.700 have a conversation with you about this and then when i found out what he was basing his opinion on

00:54:18.500 which was like a paragraph from the college i was like oh boy like clearly we can't have a

00:54:24.580 conversation because you're not informed you haven't informed yourself yeah so like if i

00:54:29.940 wanted to i could have just left him with some stuff too as well or sent him some stuff but okay

00:54:36.100 what is what is your opinion based on maybe let's start there so that's how i would frame it

00:54:41.460 well i mean you have the you have the epistemic humility as they say to to have that opinion in

00:54:46.980 the first place and it feels like it feels like we we're getting a and i don't want to get too

00:54:51.700 partisan about this because sort of like you we you know we like to exist more in the

00:54:56.100 conversational middle rather than rather than picking sides but kind of going back to caulfield

00:55:02.260 earlier it certainly seems like there's one side of the conversation right now that definitely is not

00:55:08.820 curious to find out where they've been wrong and there's another side that is is sort of challenging

00:55:14.580 that side to let's let's you know throw some sunlight on this let's have some public discussion

00:55:19.940 and one seems one side seems a little more eager than the other to really drill down to the to the

00:55:25.780 truth yeah and i'm glad you asked that because i wanted to ask this before we wrap up probably here

00:55:31.380 in a bit is how do we change how do we bridge it i don't know what change it is the thing but

00:55:36.980 what can we do to get this conversation going or like because so many times when i try to engage i'm also

00:55:43.140 told don't do it it's a waste of your time which i do find it is often um also it's just so

00:55:53.780 demeaning sometimes the comments and the vitriol and it's like are you serious are we in grade eight

00:56:02.420 uh like i was in junior high i wasn't the cool kid i've been through that before thanks

00:56:08.180 let's move on haha you said my name funny great let's move on and have a discussion like can we go

00:56:15.620 there do you think or are we like stuck in grade eight or i'm not even actually no i'm not even

00:56:20.500 going to put that to you what can we do to change the conversation because i think it's i think anything

00:56:26.740 is possible if we put in enough james is more moderate than me he's he's more he's more level-headed so i'll

00:56:32.820 let him lead with this one excellent the i just have a uh more a greater patience level to hammer

00:56:42.340 down to the like i yeah i'm a little bit stoic when it comes to conversations i guess removing the emotion

00:56:49.940 that's my suggestion first is that um a lot of the time so if somebody does engage a little bit

00:56:59.380 and if they try to attack you for like your character or this or that or they throw a label

00:57:05.060 on there i don't engage with that i try to just refocus on like well what do you mean by this and

00:57:11.300 like kind of don't let it get into that because as soon as you feed into that it just amplifies into a

00:57:18.260 a big just it's a punching match at that point and what isn't happening is um i i try to be aware of

00:57:26.420 like is somebody are they actually representing your position and if they're not if somebody's

00:57:35.380 attacking a version of your position in their head try to point that out and like well here's what i

00:57:43.060 actually believe and you're getting this wrong or you're painting me with a wide brush and um

00:57:47.620 uh often they will assume what you think based on kind of fitting you into a group because it's more

00:57:56.580 convenient in your head to assume that you're part of this group you have this view or you're from

00:58:01.780 alberta so you believe this and that and you're you're a conservative redneck and you believe this and

00:58:08.100 it's just these shortcuts that people will take so i think that's part of it is is accurately framing

00:58:14.340 somebody's position and on our side as well like if when we're engaging in a conversation

00:58:21.540 what i try to do is i try to understand somebody's position and i will steel man that so present

00:58:26.820 their position in the best possible light and then poke a hole in it and say this is where it fails

00:58:33.780 and if you can do that then that shows that you've actually you've actually understood what they're

00:58:40.580 what they're trying to communicate yeah no i i think those are all fair and it's so interesting

00:58:49.540 that one i think the biggest or best example of that one i could give is being called right now an

00:58:56.500 anti-vaxxer or my client who is vaccine injured being called an anti-vaxxer and i'm like like how do

00:59:05.060 those words even come out of people's mouths there's somebody injured from a vaccine so clearly they're

00:59:13.380 not and any just that label is so silly anyway but for me it's there was harm done and we're trying

00:59:22.340 to address the harm and why are you so upset about that and so that very strange or like even going back

00:59:31.540 to the immigration thing again i don't really know how many people is right but what i think we all

00:59:38.020 want is a safe community and i don't think that that's something we should be hesitant to talk about

00:59:45.540 if people feel unsafe to be walking the street or using public transportation we should all be

00:59:52.180 concerned about that we're having a conversation about that um so that's where like i very much agree

00:59:58.580 with you on that i just it's surprising when people get stuck on that i can i can give you a give

01:00:06.580 you a a guess as to why people uh would say things like a calling a vaccine injured person and anti-vaxxers

01:00:13.380 because that type of person who would do that who would say that is has so self-identified with

01:00:21.460 uh a an ideology that any example that could potentially lower the perfection that they've

01:00:31.460 built that institution in their head is is is the enemy and needs to be you know either silenced or

01:00:38.100 censored or or made fun of in some way because if you can admit that somebody has been vaccine injured

01:00:44.420 then that means when they're having an argument with their family member who you know maybe had a

01:00:49.620 problem with the coveted vaccines well then that means that they have a point and they don't want

01:00:54.420 them to have a point because they want to be right getting back to silencing and the like caulfield and

01:01:01.780 others not having a conversation and i think yeah so then that's the question how do we how can we manage

01:01:08.420 having conversations that are difficult that people don't want to engage that will immediately attack and

01:01:15.860 i like i you know i'm with you i'm not going to be saying attacking them for it but what can we do and

01:01:23.940 i know you guys i think you don't mind sharing one idea that you guys had of what you could do so maybe

01:01:29.620 let's talk about that yeah that's a perfect segue um so we uh at the critical compass are big fans of

01:01:36.180 uh a gentleman named peter bogosian i don't know if you're familiar with him

01:01:39.380 i after i heard about what he does yes yeah yeah so he's for for listeners who aren't uh aren't

01:01:48.180 familiar he's a uh former philosophy professor um taught at the uh uh portland portland state

01:01:55.380 university i think it's called yep he was there's some controversy there you can read his wikipedia

01:01:59.540 it's fine but uh he's a he's a sort of i guess a modern day he he employs the uh socratic method so

01:02:07.860 and the socratic method being of course i don't need to tell you this but for the listeners

01:02:11.780 uh just basically asking people questions until they you know they uh fully refine their beliefs

01:02:18.820 just just question after question okay well why do you believe this okay so you said that so what

01:02:23.060 about this um and what he does is a thing called um spectrum street epistemology and what it is is he

01:02:30.980 has uh he'll go on the street or he'll go to a college or he'll go to a you know a group of his

01:02:35.700 friends or some public setting and he'll he lays out a i can't think of the name right now but it's

01:02:40.980 one of those surveys where it's like uh uh strongly disagree slightly disagree disagree and then neutral

01:02:47.380 and then agree on the other side as a as a horseshoe shape and he he makes a claim and gets people to he

01:02:55.140 counts down and gets people to self-assemble on the line of how much they agree or disagree with the

01:03:00.340 claim and then he asks them questions uh okay you believe this why are your why are your beliefs

01:03:06.020 this way talk to somebody else and then he'll ask them to say somebody on the strongly agree side well

01:03:12.660 what would it take for you what would that person on the disagree line have to say to get you to move

01:03:18.580 one degree over from your the assuredness you have of your position and he's doing another thing that's

01:03:25.060 pretty cool now too where if he ever has people who go on very strongly opposite ends of the

01:03:30.020 spectrum what he makes them do before he asks their opinion is he has them write down on a whiteboard

01:03:36.180 what they believe their opponent's strongest position is for being on that side so it immediately gets you

01:03:42.100 in a framework of like james was saying of steel manning someone's a argument that you very strongly

01:03:47.140 oppose so we want to start doing that i think there's as far as we know there's no one doing that

01:03:52.580 in alberta uh at least not on youtube that we found so far so maybe we'll be the first

01:03:57.620 and uh i think it'll be fun i think it'll be fun too and it just gets the conversation going and

01:04:05.140 it's okay to have disagreements and um different opinions in fact that is healthy that's how we learn

01:04:13.140 that's how we could grow um so i think that having those kind of discussions and making it fun going on

01:04:20.420 campuses or on white average asper would be very entertaining so i'm looking forward to that and

01:04:26.420 maybe doing a few with you yes that'd be awesome um before we uh we plug a few things for you um

01:04:34.100 james do you have any any final questions you'd like to ask eva i think i think we've covered i think

01:04:41.620 we've covered quite a bit so right on well um eva i'll let you do your sign off but um before before

01:04:50.580 you do because i don't know if you would do it yourself let's say when is your book coming out

01:04:55.300 where can people buy it what other things do you got going on those are the tough questions

01:05:02.580 hopefully soon it was supposed to be released may june and there might be a little bit delay that isn't

01:05:11.380 for sure yet so but soon i so wanted out just because like i said i want people to read it

01:05:17.460 i'm doing um courses empowered canadians uh just to help elevate the conversation and then of course

01:05:24.660 involved in these class actions that i've talked about um so and then just trying to have these

01:05:31.540 conversations and engage with people and have some fun on the internet as well with that and where can

01:05:37.540 everybody find you that's what i was gonna ask uh we are on uh on twitter slash x uh you can find us

01:05:44.340 uh at the crit comp it's the closest we could get the critical compass was too long and everything

01:05:51.140 related was already taken so t-h-e-c-r-i-t-c-o-m-p and and the critical compass on youtube youtube all

01:05:59.780 right and i'll put your handle in so that was really great thank you guys that was a fun way of doing it

01:06:05.700 it and uh having this dialogue and we're gonna still hold on to you guys for a little bit longer

01:06:12.420 for the paid x subscribers where we like to get a little bit more juicy with the questions nice

01:06:18.500 thanks eva i appreciate your time it was great cheers

01:06:39.380 you

The Critical Compass Podcast - July 06, 2024

Productive Political Engagement for All Canadians w⧸Eva Chipiuk ｜ A Critical Compass Discussion

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