Referendum Rising - The Challenging Road Ahead for Alberta Independence
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Summary
In this episode, we talk about the movement and its efforts to become a republic in Alberta. We discuss the challenges and challenges facing the movement and what it means to be a citizen-led referendum campaign.
Transcript
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uh we've seen a lot of town halls from the alberta prosperity project
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um they're gathering a lot of um digital signatures with the intent to sign the petition
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for referendum yeah um and that's in the the hundreds of thousands and they would need only
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600 000 under the old rules and only like 170 000 yeah they've already surpassed i think they're
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they're well into the uh well into the actual the range where it would be passed where it would be
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passed the intent would be passed to sign they are gaining some momentum they've had plenty of town
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halls uh we've also seen um multiple a couple other little subgroups pop up um so the alberta
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prosperity project they released their wording they released their question for the referendum
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yeah it's interesting let's talk about that that came out um and there's some people that said well
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we like we never voted on this being our official representative of the movement yeah um there
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doesn't seem to be there is no cross talk between all these groups that i'm aware of um you also have
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you have you have different voices you have different ideas on the time frames um so
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where is the coordination and then you also have the alberta republican party
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um that shows up uh we interviewed cam davies if you're watching this you may have watched that as
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all or if you haven't we have some clips in a full episode from that um that's on the political side
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where these other groups are not political and i think people are treating this as a zero-sum game
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saying that a political group cannot exist with the same goal because it has to be a citizen-led
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referendum right but then the question's well what does political pressure
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look like from within the legislator what happens if let's say you get a couple alberta republican
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mlas does that help push the ucp to better negotiate if there's a successful referendum like what does
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that actually look like or is the presence of a alberta republican party going to harm the movement
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because of optics or scandals or any other any other reasons like is it just easy target for media to
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say well republicans look at those americans maybe the average person doesn't understand what a republic
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is so they don't even they wouldn't even comprehend alberta becoming a republic they they would think that
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like a new alberta would keep the west minister or keep monarchy ties or whatever so maybe the average person
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can't even comprehend why a group would call them alberta call themselves alberta republicans
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or what principles a republican would stand for they only see it as an american a uniquely american thing
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even though most uh the like the full names of most countries include republic and some republics
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yeah they're they're democratic republics most democracies are like a democratic republic if
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they aren't tied to the monarchy in some kind of way yeah you know refers to a you know a founding
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document and you know some some way or another yeah uh yeah i i mean i don't know like there's so
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many ways to look at it and i and i i certainly get the feeling too that there's a you know
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conservatives have we've talked about this before a little bit like conservatives have this thing where
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we're like we're just so damn independent that you know and we're so idealistic and and and like
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i don't know stubborn you know pig-headed in certain ways where it's like you know this is this is my
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vision and and screw you if you're not into it because i'll i'll make it on my own yeah you know
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we got that entrepreneurial spirit you know in a way and it's and it's great when you're you know
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talking about like building a barn or some shit like that but if you're like trying to you know
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build a political movement that you know affects how many how many millions of people are in alberta
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like i said like four or six million people something like that maybe it's maybe it's four or five
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million people you know um you can't be pissing at each other and sniping and moaning about you know
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all these little things and so yeah i mean on the one hand i can i can appreciate when people have a
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they've got a vision you know they they they believe that this is the the best way forward this
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is the most true to what you know if you if your goal is an independent alberta this is the way we
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should go but you know if we're just going to fractionate and we're not going to we're not
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going to pick a you know pick a leader or pick a uh you know platform or an ideology or a party or
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something you know it's sort of ripe for you know people this is something that the left does really
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well that the left that the right doesn't you know the the left will i mean we saw it in the last
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election like who who would have foresaw the ndp you know ndp voters collapsing and like just
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folding on their principles so easily and just in in a in a complete abandonment of their party just
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to just to uh ensure that a conservative never won you know like that was crazy but they'll do it you
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know they'll do it they'll rally behind a cause like that even if they don't agree on the particular
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so that's i think kind of what we're gonna have to we're not gonna have a choice you know we're gonna
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have to do that not not that it's even like a full like plug your nose and yeah but the so that i think
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that already kind of happened with daniel smith and that's why the ucb had as much support as it did
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they saw enough there they're like okay well maybe she's not the perfect libertarian or maybe
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she's like she hasn't downsized the government she's increased the public sector like spending's
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gone up and that doesn't really fit within a conservative mindset yeah so there are some that were
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critical that still supported her despite not being a perfect alignment so we are seeing some
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some compromise but perhaps it's the i'm worried that some egos or people are too quick to demonize
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um where you see a demonization of a new party like the albert of republicans there are some people
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that say like well smith and the ucp will get us to the referendum through the referendum and then
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will negotiate then there's others who don't trust smith and don't trust anybody in the government so
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they say we can't trust a new party they're just as corrupt as all the others and they don't without
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any like full like we haven't seen all their actions they haven't seen everything unfold so you
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don't really have a base of evidence for that so with that they're saying like well we can't trust
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anybody any leader any politician we can't trust and we need a citizen-led referendum like well yes
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maybe it passes what happens then who's negotiating yeah that's right and how are we building a new
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alberta what is the framework behind that yeah and then the questions what vision of alberta are we
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are we leaning towards and do people have a clear vision of alberta that resonates with
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moral burdens is there a group really communicating that um perhaps you can't fully put in a plan for
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like this is how we would a hundred percent build it because there's so many unknowns that would be
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discovered during the negotiation process but having something to aim towards would that help
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convince people is that part of the communication i i can't say for sure like i don't have these
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answers but i would love to see the leaders of these different groups get together and explore some of
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these like yeah explore this say like what's our strategy how do we approach it what are the optics
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what are some no-goes like um yeah what are the things that is here that makes like what are the
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things that really hurts the movement from an optics standpoint um here are things you say here are
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things you don't say can we agree on some things and what about time frame what about like there's even
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no consensus on this so like how early do we want to run one like if we go too early and it fails then
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we wait five years and like the next one would take a while to do so yeah yeah and and you know the goal
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should be to to capital like it's such a delicate balance of of wanting to you want to capitalize them
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on momentum but you want to have enough time to unify the messaging and you know get some converts
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here like i think at last count i mean so hard to tell you know what polls you can take seriously
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anymore but it it seemed that early polling was showing about 30 to 35 percent were in favor of
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separation and then i saw some recent ones that showed up to it up to about 40 to 45 percent so that's
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that's a nice little jump but you know if you can't really ever tell if that's going to be like
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is that the the apex of it like are you is the amount of time and energy required to secure that
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final you know six percent of the votes to to take it over the top is that even possible is that you
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know is that something that's so it's hard it's so hard to say and and certainly to your point the
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the way to get there is not to have leaders of these
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separate movements all aimed all ideologically aimed towards the same goal sniping at each other
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on twitter you know or calling each other grifters or like you know going after each other like this so
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i think what this means james is that you and i need to take this as a call to action to get some of
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these guys on the podcast do a do a big old round table get these guys in a room together
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get these big swinging dicks together to sit down and agree to something for once in their goddamn
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lives and uh and because i bet they they agree on way more than they disagree and it'd be nice like
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you say to find out okay well here's here's a policy platform of the alberta republicans that
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is you know antithetical to a a policy that the alberta prosperity project wants to run with okay
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fantastic now we've we've found something that we can have a discussion about we both agree what the
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end goal should be but you know here's our sticking point so if we want to get through this i mean
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what did cameron davy spend his whole i don't know when this occurred early 2010s roughly what did he spend
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this whole time doing was uniting the wild rose and the and the pcs into what we know now as the ucp
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and look at what happened with that so to believe that it can't happen again or that there's you know
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irreconcilable differences or or you know whatever i i don't think that's the case i think it's just
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going to be a matter of hashing it out and having these guys sit down and decide how like you said how
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like okay so we get we get the big win all right now what so they don't even need to be a hundred
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percent in alignment with all their issues so the thing is the alberta being a not associated with
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the government the alberta prosperity project they can easily just say like here's our vision for
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alberta and that vision can be different than alberta republicans um those can coexist like
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if one vision resonates more with people than the other that's fine it's just that you'd ask like
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well what is the role of the alberta republicans and if their role if they're saying well we're a
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alberta independence like an alberta first party and they would support alberta through independence
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through political pressure then does that still have a role is that splitting votes or if they get
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some mlas in there is that are they applying pressure to the ucp are they able to hold them
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to account do they do they provide a voice in the legislator that is not fully that that doesn't
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have any volume right now yeah so if any of those things are true then maybe there's some merit
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if vote splitting in certain key like in edmonton ridings or calgary ridings if vote splitting is
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an issue then perhaps we just talk to people and be smart and we just say like well we still have to be
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strategic maybe one party resonates with your values but maybe we'd be strategic
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um you can still put pressure on them saying like well okay alberta republicans don't run a
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candidate in here and call it out like these are some vote splitting ridings maybe you maybe you flag
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that and say like it would be a dick move if you ran a candidate in this particular riding versus
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safe ridings etc so there there are ways that's a whole other side but like if they get a couple in
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it feels like it could be a tool in the political side of the spectrum that we don't have in this
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on the non-political side so is that worth having a discussion or is history with examples they they saw
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previous movements maybe fail and they they're attributing the failure to these out like to a new
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party or an independence party there so i i guess maybe the question is like are these are some of
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the conclusions from the past the correct conclusions so the conclusion being independence parties tanked the
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tanked the vote or vote split or harmed conservative movements and they gave a bunch of seats away
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or is the conclusion that conservatives lose seats when they don't stick to principles when they
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um they do not govern in a way that is very conservative so depending on how you think about
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it it's maybe a different different equation so yes it would be great to get them together it's just
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they might not even be talking about the same things true that's true that's what i'm worried about
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yeah talking about each other well it's maybe the fundamental part of the issue is they don't think
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there's a political a role for any party in this movement but at the same time they they cheer on
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daniel smith for making moves in the right direction um which is kind of hypocritical if they're saying
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it's completely non-partisan well what happens during negotiations you're putting trust
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in the ucp to carry you through negotiations and will that provide the best like will that
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ensure a a good framework for building a new alberta or is there enough in the ucp that's maybe
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maybe there's self-preservation maybe there's maybe they don't apply the right pressure in the
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right places or maybe they're not firm enough or like there are some risks so is a or a few other
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stronger voices is that something that can help or is the threat of losing seats enough of a threat
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that the ucp has to listen more to the people that elect them