00:00:00.000I don't even understand what they're saying when they say things like that, because I do. I love Canada. I've loved it the whole time I've been brought up to, you know, look at that flag and sing the anthem and what it stood for and all those ideals. And I just it's not there anymore.
00:00:16.840and it's sad and heartbreaking that it has been broken and tossed away by the system of government
00:00:25.100we have and those that we've elected. But what is hopeful is that maybe we don't know how to save
00:00:30.860all of Canada right now or to correct all those wrongs, but we can save Alberta. And Alberta is
00:00:36.460my favorite piece of Canada. I'm Albertan and Canadian, but Alberta, I know that we can save
00:00:42.840there's a path that we can do that and what if we can save alberta and then show the rest of
00:00:47.640canada that you can get out from underneath this too welcome back to the critical compass i'm james
00:01:10.120This is Mike, and today we're joined by Tanya Clemmings.
00:01:40.120Uh, Tanya, as somebody who's been kind of at the ground floor of this movement for, for a while now, and, and, and certainly in this latest iteration, um, you know, you've been putting in the miles and doing the talks and, well, I guess what, what would you say is your overall feeling about what our odds going into October are?
00:02:00.060I know it's sort of hard to predict that.
00:02:01.340I always like to ask our guests to make predictions though.
00:02:04.120Well, I feel really optimistic about it because I think that this is becoming so big that there are so many Albertans behind it that our voice is very strong and very loud.
00:02:13.460And I anticipate that there will be all kinds of terrible things coming our way and court litigations and cancel culture.
00:02:21.820And I don't even know fully what to expect, but there'll be a lot thrown at us because nobody wants Alberta, the cash cow of the country, to be able to leave.
00:02:32.240And even on a world stage, I don't know if, you know, there's some powers that wouldn't enjoy that. But at the same time, we're also becoming this light and beacon for prosperity and freedom. And if we can do this, I think there's going to be a lot of people in the world watching and we'll have the hope that they too can get this done as well.
00:02:50.880So I feel very hopeful about it because I think that we do have some really big numbers. And the only part that's missing is just the continued education. Because when you see the numbers of like the economic data for what a prosperous Alberta could look like when we become a sovereign, it's pretty hard to ignore that.
00:03:11.720And then there's the whole freedom side of it that we've been fighting, like I said, since 1905 to carve out things and that we just can't change constitutionally. But when you look at that too, that it's hard to deny the merits of the sovereign Alberta. I think it's pretty compelling to people once they actually learn about it.
00:03:28.220but it's also creating the space for that civil conversation to happen because people are very
00:03:32.780scared and we were talking about this in our meeting last night how to discuss with people
00:03:38.060who are opposed to it and if they're adamantly opposed then maybe that's just a conversation
00:03:42.380that you know you're not going to win them over they're set in their minds they've made it up and
00:03:45.820that's fair enough they're entitled to do that but the ones that are like fairly hesitant i think
00:03:50.620often comes from a place of fear because it's scary to form a new nation it's scary to have
00:03:56.620things change to leave something that's familiar and even though the certainty of what's happening
00:04:01.260in canada is quite scary forging a new path is also scary so platforms like this where you can
00:04:08.300come on and discuss and have some civil discourse around it is going to be huge for the rest of the
00:04:13.900phase leading up to the referendum essentially when you have all these events you have these
00:04:18.300podcasts you have these discussions we're almost creating a paper trail of we're true like we're
00:04:27.180proving ourselves against the allegations that it's like a hate-based movement it's a lashing out and
00:04:33.580whatever accusations are thrown at us now we have examples that say otherwise and people can find
00:04:41.260out from themselves so uh that's why the live streams are hugely important max at freedom
00:04:47.180calendar is uh doing an amazing job documenting almost every single event he's out there he's
00:04:55.260driving across a machine an absolute machine yeah um so that's creating a record uh what we're doing
00:05:03.900we're filming some of the speeches we're trying to like present them as well if people can stumble
00:05:09.900upon them then that's another entryway people can go to these town halls they can go to a community
00:05:15.660center they can see these events so there's lots of ways to engage um and the next best part is
00:05:22.460that there are different speakers with with a different story all with their unique way that
00:05:30.860they came to alberta independence it's one thing i liked about your speech is you started off saying
00:05:35.980that you're not a politician you're not a lawyer um and on stage you were very much speaking from
00:05:42.380the heart thinking about well this is what you want you want a better future for your children
00:05:49.260and then you were reflecting backwards on the history of alberta and how we got here so that's
00:05:54.860good that's going to speak to a lot of people that might not maybe they don't want to listen
00:06:00.700to somebody who sounds more like a politician or more technical on the legal standpoint um and it's
00:06:08.860going to take all types of personalities over the next um half year leading up to the referendum
00:06:16.380so what group of people like where's the biggest need for communication that that's what i was
00:06:23.100trying to that's what i was more curious on uh i think that like we really need to get into the
00:06:30.140cities is uh where a lot of conversations haven't happened yet uh lots of the tours have been doing
00:06:37.020like small town Alberta and going around to more rural centers. We've been into all the major
00:06:42.220centers like Red Tear, Lethbridge, Calgary and Edmonton, but the population is just so huge
00:06:46.940there that we just need to have more and more events to make sure that the conversations are
00:06:50.940starting to happen. I think it's also interesting the way that it's been approached so far by
00:06:56.940having these conversations with all the smaller towns that you've kind of created this whole
00:07:01.100network of people that understand the principles of a sovereign Alberta are excited about it
00:07:06.300And then the best way to educate and encourage people
00:07:10.500is to have those one on one conversations or conversations in small groups.
00:07:14.300It's almost like you've created this whole army of people that are
00:07:17.840are armed with the education and the tools to have these conversations.
00:07:20.940And now they're going forth and talking to their family members
00:07:23.460and their friends and their networks of people.
00:07:25.260And and those conversations are happening.
00:07:27.760And it is great, like you said, that there's so many speakers
00:07:31.060on so many different tours and there's going to be more and more
00:07:34.400coming up all the time that feel confident now that you can go talk in public about this.
00:07:39.680And there'll be somebody that resonates with everybody in Alberta, I think.
00:07:44.960Not every speaker is going to resonate with everyone, but there's going to be some speakers
00:07:48.720that resonate and people feel comfortable, you know, going after a meeting and having
00:07:52.540a one-on-one conversation with them or participating in the Q&As and getting their questions answered.
00:07:58.660Yeah. When we, when we interviewed Kathy Flett, that was a, that was a point that we were really, um, excited about is that, yeah, there just are specifically with, uh, having women like you and Kathy and, and, and others, you know, active in the movement.
00:08:14.580Um, not everyone specifically, uh, women feel as comfortable like speaking in public or, or talking about, you know, politically charged ideas as, you know, big oaf men like us that, you know, are just itching to, you know, yell our opinion to whoever will listen.
00:19:51.580or to correct all those wrongs, but we can save Alberta.
00:19:55.000And Alberta is my favorite piece of Canada.
00:19:57.400I'm Albertan and Canadian, but Alberta, I know that we can save
00:20:02.040and there's a path that we can do that.
00:20:03.860And what if we can save Alberta and then show the rest of Canada
00:20:07.240that you can get out from underneath this too,
00:20:09.820and you can be independent and still protect those values
00:20:13.340and what made you Canadian to start with and what you believed it was.
00:20:16.440Like the people that fought in actual wars for our freedom
00:20:21.300I believe that they would want us to continue to try to be free, not to just succumb and submit.
00:20:31.600Yeah. Yeah, that's such a common refrain amongst all our guests. And I think the first time we
00:20:38.180heard those words like that exactly was when we interviewed Bruce Party for the first time. And
00:20:41.840he said that, you know, Alberta independence could be, an independent Alberta could save Canada.
00:20:47.900And so it's a strange thing to think about, but it's it is a I get that feeling, too, because there's you can tell right away people who who haven't done much traveling around Canada when they don't really view when they think that we're being hyperbolic.
00:21:06.940And we talk about how different Alberta is compared to the rest of the country, because it is very palpably, tangibly, objectively different here.
00:21:14.220there's a different type of person that lives here and um you know i i was i'm looking through
00:21:22.260the um the speech that we posted of you where you had your five questions and the thing that really
00:21:29.200stood out to me there there was there was two that really stood out to me but uh the question
00:21:34.260the first question you asked of are we better off now than we were a generation ago is such a
00:21:39.100such a profound question and you followed it up immediately by saying who should decide
00:21:44.680Alberta's future Ottawa or the people who live here and and I wonder if if you could maybe speak
00:21:49.860on how how those two things might be so linked and and what what our current generation who is
00:21:57.780fighting for our independence from Ottawa how that could affect the the young generation going
00:22:04.300forward. Is that too much of a compound question? No, that's okay. Sorry, I'm just trying to think
00:22:15.620now. That's a lot thrown in there. Here, let me phrase it differently. So your first question of
00:22:23.520are we better off now than we were a generation ago? It's a huge question because statistically
00:22:28.660they say that. So James and I are pretty firmly in the millennial generation. I'm going to assume
00:22:34.280you're a Zoomer because you're much younger than us. And, uh, and, uh, and, uh, we are the first
00:22:42.780generation that is expected to have a lower quality of living and a lower lifespan than
00:22:46.300our parents. And that's, I mean, that's, I can't believe that in the time that we live in. Um,
00:22:52.940but when you ask, you know, should it be Ottawa or Alberta deciding Albertan's future? That's,
00:22:57.200that's directly speaking to the, to the generational problem that we're facing,
00:23:00.760Because there are a group of people in Ottawa who are so detached from what it's like to actually live here, and they are implementing policies that are directly negatively affecting our way of life.
00:23:13.700And so if we free ourselves from that, what are some of the things that an independent Alberta can do to maybe erase all those negatives that they've placed upon this generation?
00:23:24.740okay so first with the are we better off than we were a generation ago i think that we look at it
00:23:31.460even like a step further than that too how how can we try to correct it so that the next generation
00:23:36.900after us is better off because the stats right now are that for like my kids and the next generation
00:23:43.460after me the average age of being able to purchase a house is now 44 years old yeah 20 years ago it
00:23:50.980was 24 years old so 20 years ago by the time you were 44 you would have had your house paid for
00:23:57.220and now the next generation is only going to be able to start buying their house at that
00:24:02.340so it's it's pretty sad what our system has has been set up to leave for the generations after us
00:24:10.500and how costly it is for them to live and just the chipping away at freedoms gradually over and over
00:24:17.460and then for the second part of it Keith Wilson speaks about it really really well actually
00:24:22.200about how giant Canada is and how diverse like we are just one big country with like five time
00:24:30.460zones we cover an immense amount of land and culturally we are very different across the
00:24:35.660entire country so does it even make sense really to be governed by one body thousands of kilometers
00:24:41.820away that are going to make all those decisions for us it does make more sense for me that
00:24:46.700Albertans would be governed by Albertans, by people that we elect in Alberta that understand
00:24:52.140our needs and our issues. One recent example that's kind of a farming example that happened
00:24:57.880was when our liberal government, our federal government slapped the tariffs on EVs from China
00:25:06.220and that was kind of to protect the auto industry out east. And then what China did is they slapped
00:25:14.040a hundred percent tariffs on canola which only affects western canada so all of a sudden our
00:25:20.040canola was not moving for farmers and usually it seems like when our liberal government does
00:25:26.120something silly like that it's something that protects the east and causes a consequence to
00:25:30.680the west and what people didn't realize is that the canola industry is actually bigger than the
00:25:36.680auto the steel industries combined so that was a terrible negative effect on canada because of
00:25:44.040their idea out east there so no it doesn't make sense for us to be governed by people so far
00:25:49.920removed from that plus we're like a very freedom loving prideful conservative by nature now not
00:25:58.440meaning like politically conservative but just conservative people that you know value hard work
00:26:03.600and and grit and the value of a dollar and want to be rewarded for their hard work we that's part
00:26:10.620of our culture here perfect answer to my long rambling question thank you i don't know i don't
00:26:17.000even know if i answered i just started talking now too but hopefully it did yes i i'm gonna mess up
00:26:23.760the uh i don't know if it's if i'm gonna actually like attribute this to the right person but
00:26:29.340i think it was warren buffett he was talking about the like how to make decisions to better
00:26:37.000a company and he was thinking of it in the negative so essentially he was thinking like
00:26:42.480if i wanted to harm this company and tank this company what would i need to do to tank them
00:26:49.420instantly so he's identifying weaknesses and thinking of like if i do a b c and d
00:26:55.860that would that would set you on a path to destruction essentially and i i feel like that's
00:27:03.640a good thought experiment for Canada and also a good thought experiment for Alberta and our next
00:27:10.180generation. So in Canada, if you wanted to harm the next generation, you would devalue our currency,
00:27:17.320make it very difficult to save money. You would overload the country population-wise at a rate
00:27:25.380faster than our heavy welfare and social systems could keep up so you would overload it you devalue
00:27:35.500your currency you would essentially flip the incentives creating more dependency on the
00:27:43.260government than what people would naturally have so you are growing the public sector you are
00:27:50.220increasing the bloat and when you add all this together um you have created a problem that only
00:27:58.460more government can solve right and the difficult thing is we still have a like even with however
00:28:09.260many headstrong people we have in alberta right now the cities still have a large portion of public
00:28:15.820sector, union-based people that are collectivists in nature, who trust a centralized government,
00:28:24.500and they are not thinking about, well, like, what does putting our trust in this centralized
00:28:32.440system, like, what will that do over time? Or what would happen if somebody else was in power
00:29:02.160that must be addressed for a country to thrive.
00:29:08.000And, like, there's national security, there's unity, there's the economic side of things, and the list goes on.
00:29:14.920But the unity aspect, I think, is something that's still growing because I feel like it can, like, it's not stagnant.
00:29:27.400Like, whatever sense of unity we have right now, it can change as we lead towards a referendum.
00:29:34.840So my question to you is, do you think there's enough unity in Alberta, even with the large share of kind of more public sector collectivists and those who believe in Canada, is there enough unity to solidify a country? Or do you think those people will leave or will they stay or will cause division? Like, how do we factor that into the equation?
00:30:01.020I still think that there is definitely enough unity. I know when we're talking about independence specifically and the referendum vote, we kind of estimate that there's a third of the population that will just never support independence and will never vote that. And that's okay. They've got their minds made up.
00:30:20.560So we're not targeting those people to have conversations, but there's like a third in the middle. They're just not sure yet or aren't educated enough. And that's who we're really trying to target and have those conversations with.
00:30:32.740um as far as like the unions and some of the people who have like more of the collective
00:30:39.700collectivism mentality that you were talking about i guess when i talk to groups like that
00:30:48.180or people that come from groups like that because i'm a teacher by trade too so i understand a
00:30:52.460little bit about the unions although i i'm not in favor of forced unions but um i think that
00:31:00.180it just needs to be articulated that the pursuit of self-determination and the pursuit of prosperity
00:31:06.720is actually a unifying pursuit it's not it's non-partisan it doesn't matter what your background
00:31:13.100is this is something that will benefit all albertans and if they wanted to look at something
00:31:18.440like the the economics of it you can go read the value of freedom which was a fully costed fiscal
00:31:24.660document for Sovereign Alberta. It's on the albertaprosperity.com website. It's been out
00:31:30.540to the public for about a year, I think now, and inviting feedback. So it's been reviewed by
00:31:36.020economists and anybody in the public. And when you look at that, and it talks about your federal
00:31:42.400income tax ending on day one of being an independent Alberta, and what would that look
00:31:47.660like on your paycheck if all of a sudden federal income tax wasn't taken off? And then after five
00:31:52.640years when we got rid of all income tax period. So you're working in your collectivist job,
00:31:58.760if you're in a teacher's union or a nurse's union or whatever, but you're working and your
00:32:03.560work is being rewarded and your paycheck that comes to you is your reward. It's not part of
00:32:09.240it being taken off for the government to be sent out to Quebec or somewhere else in the form of a
00:32:14.440transfer payment. This is your money that you worked for and earned. So I think talking in some
00:32:19.400of those ways. Like it's not a, it's not a partisan issue. We want freedom and prosperity for all
00:32:23.900Albertans. I don't know, does that kind of answer your question or did that go off track a little
00:32:29.460bit? That answers it and it speaks to, I guess, a different entry point to that kind of conversation
00:32:38.680depending on who you're talking to. Because if teachers, if one of their concerns right now is
00:33:13.980Yeah, and maybe we need to look at the immigration policy that we have in place.
00:33:18.080And in an independent Alberta, perhaps there is a little bit of a freeze on immigration for a few years until our infrastructure can actually catch up with the mass migration we've had here right now.
00:33:31.500That's going to decrease the strain on teachers and make the education system better overall once we can catch up with that.
00:33:39.100There's a lot of ways that it will benefit.
00:34:10.000You should want to protect what it means to be an Albertan. You should value that. Being a citizen of Alberta is going to be something that is monumental. It's huge. Why would we want to dilute that down at all?
00:34:26.460we want to have people who want to come here that want to become albertans and value that like we do
00:34:33.260that want to contribute to alberta to continue to make it better and better that have that same
00:34:38.000regard for it that we do like i don't i don't think that's a bad thing that's that's pride in
00:34:42.980what you've built and what the people before us have built yeah they say that um uh it should be
00:34:49.600the goal of every progressive to make a society worth conserving. And I think that's kind of lost
00:34:57.440on people, actually, because people often, modern liberals anyway, seem to view progress in and of
00:35:04.040itself as the goal, just change for the sake of change and don't actually really think about what
00:35:08.440they're trying to create. I wanted to just go, and I got to apologize to James, because you
00:35:15.200you mentioned warren buffett and a quote and so i just started like i started trying to find that
00:35:19.860quote as you were talking and i completely missed everything you said so i'm gonna have to watch it
00:35:24.840back in the in the recording but i wanted to bring this up because i found what you were thinking
00:35:28.660they call it um so buffett's referred to um the term inverse thinking which is popularized by
00:35:36.220charlie munger who is his his partner and he says he looks for economic moats uh what are a uh what
00:35:44.240what a competitor with unlimited capital could do to destroy a company if they were um if they were
00:35:51.800so inclined and across that moat and i wanted to read you guys this uh this breakdown and see if
00:35:56.140this sounds like something to you because this is the critical uh buffett highlights this several
00:36:03.020critical vulnerabilities that can lead to a company's downfall losing your reputation and
00:36:08.600is the quote this famous quote of it takes 20 years to build a reputation in five minutes to
00:36:12.300ruin it. The ABC of decline, and the ABC is arrogance, bureaucracy, and complacency.
00:36:20.680Failing to adapt, poor capital allocation, and operating outside your circle of competence.
00:36:28.400What does that remind anyone of? Does that sound like anything to anyone?
00:36:33.780Yeah, that sounds a lot like our federal government.0.96
00:40:45.760And we just have to overcome the fear that people have by giving them the education and the tools to be able to move forwards.
00:40:54.920You know, one of the things we often ask our guests is, you know, you spoke earlier about the kind of that that third of people who just will not be convincible.
00:41:07.360people also talk about the middle third when you have people who are uh you know very you have
00:41:14.600obviously people who are very pro-independence you have people who are very anti-independence
00:41:18.860then you kind of have that uh nebulous sort of flexible middle third of people who maybe haven't
00:41:23.820thought too much about it maybe don't care too much maybe you know they could be swayed either
00:41:27.200way depending on the day or depending on the argument um you must run into a lot of these
00:41:32.660people in your, in your advocacy work, um, what, what maybe are your best kind of like one or two
00:41:38.700go-to lines that you might use to, um, sway a very, you know, somebody who presents anyway as
00:41:45.360a very, um, you know, I say, you know, maybe a more liberal person, of course, Alberta independence
00:41:50.820isn't a left-right issue, but it's sort of tends to get framed that way. Um, what, what are some
00:41:55.480things that you might say to somebody who is on that sort of end of the political spectrum to try
00:42:01.620sway them oh i guess i would first invite them to come out to one of the speaker events just to
00:42:08.740hear the information that's being presented lots of times when we do have those events we'll ask
00:42:13.700the crowd how many are attending for the first time like an independence event and to learn
00:42:18.740and it is like usually 40 to 50 percent or something like that so that's good there's
00:42:23.140people that are coming out to it um but i guess i would kind of go to my five questions that i've
00:42:29.700talked about before for some of those ones a big one is about what kind of alberta are you wanting
00:42:36.340to leave for your children and the next generation and just giving them some space to actually
00:42:41.620reflect upon that and think about it and then just sharing the like there's so much education
00:42:48.500available out there and so many documents and articles have been written and podcasts that
00:42:53.220they can watch and people that you can refer them to to have those conversations like there's really
00:42:58.420a limitless amount of directions that you can send them to but i think it is it's the one-on-one
00:43:05.300conversations that really move people and giving them that space to be able to ask their questions
00:43:11.540and tell you their hesitancies and then reacting with a little bit of grace that yeah they might
00:43:17.060be coming from a position of fear or just not knowing understanding or they might have some
00:43:22.260great reasons that need to be discussed. Sorry, I guess it's not like I don't have one or two
00:43:28.160go-to points, but usually let them lead the direction of the conversation.
00:43:33.620Yeah, that's a much more, I would say, holistic approach. I wondered, do you ever get asked
00:43:40.060as a, you know, you're, you know, very soft-spoken, you know, very, you know,
00:43:45.980agreeable type personality. Do you ever get asked, like, you know, why would you want to
00:43:51.620associate yourself with somebody like jeff wrath or you know like jeff gets gets you know a bad rap
00:43:57.220because he's kind of he gets beat on yeah yeah he's kind of brash and he's sort of that's just
00:44:01.060his personality but um we we like him a lot but but do you ever like do people ever ask you like
00:44:06.660you know you know or maybe get confused as to why somebody with your type of demeanor is is involved
00:44:12.620with this movement uh i don't i've never really been asked why i am like because of more soft
00:44:19.100spoken or anything like that but i guess yeah jeff is also part of um app once we get back going
00:44:25.980again and yeah we have a very different approach to things but i've been on speaking tours with him
00:44:32.460too and like down in taber in different places where he gets huge standing ovations and really
00:44:37.340resonates with the crowd so it kind of goes back to having a variety of different voices that are
00:44:42.140all sharing the information but resonating with different people i i don't love his approach he
00:44:47.820probably doesn't love my approach but we're on the same team and we're advocating for the same thing
00:44:52.940so we can get by those differences and continue on that path we do talk a little bit about i i
00:44:59.100don't feel so we need to be making an enemy of the premier and him and i would obviously disagree on
00:45:03.820that but again that's we're not all thinking on this is one linear thought and this is the only
00:45:10.060way to get there right we want to move to an independent alberta and what that's gonna
00:45:15.100ultimately look like is going to be what Albertans decide it's going to look like. It's not going to
00:45:19.580be what Jeff says or what I say. It's going to be Albertans that are going to ratify that new
00:45:23.460constitution and decide what the new Alberta looks like. So we just have to remember that we're all
00:45:28.940in the same team, taking that same path forward, a little bit of deviations on the way.
00:45:36.420So one thing I've been kind of observing or I try to read the comments and also listen to any
00:45:44.780pushback on independence. And I'm going to see if I can articulate one of the points that
00:45:52.400often comes up. And it depends on where somebody is in the conversation, because
00:45:57.400if you can get on the same page and maybe you articulate that there's a legal path forward
00:46:04.420and it takes a majority, and once there's a majority and a clear democratic will, then
00:46:09.940And then you're on the road to independence at that point that negotiations will start.
00:46:18.300One concern that I hear and I can understand where people are coming from is it's a compassion-based, like empathy-based concern for the rest of Canada.
00:46:30.300If they can recognize that Alberta does have the natural resources and or is, in a way, unfairly supporting the rest of Canada, they seem concerned that if Alberta leaves, what would happen to Canada?
00:46:48.800My personal feeling is that if there's some negative effects in the short term, it could lead to change, the much needed change in Canada that is unlikely to happen with the status quo of slowly withering away under the current policies.
00:47:14.440But, again, that depends on the rest of Canada to stand up.
00:47:20.680Do you have any thoughts on how to articulate that or how to respond to a person who's concerned from that angle?
00:47:30.720Well, I think that immediately after independence for Alberta, it probably will have some negative effects on Canada.
00:47:37.220I think the Canadian dollar will drop.
00:47:40.820it'll definitely be tough on canada to not have alberta generating a lot of the wealth but there
00:47:47.360is a lot of wealth generated in lots of parts of canada already like ontario does well quebec
00:47:53.740they seem like they're um like a have-not province because of the equalization formula but they don't
00:48:00.020have their hydroelectric industry on the equalization balance sheet so if you put that
00:48:05.200in there like that would be like us taking off our oil and gas industry kind of right
00:48:08.220so they're okay too i think that it's going to encourage people to to advocate for themselves
00:48:17.640and to go seek better for themselves and to not rely on somebody else to provide for them and i
00:48:23.740don't think that that's a negative thing i think that's actually a good thing it might come with
00:48:27.220a little bit of a pain growing pains but ultimately if you can learn how to take care of yourself and
00:48:33.900to stand on your own two feet. That is a good thing. Yeah, there's, um, you know, I may or may
00:48:40.460not have used the term, um, fat welfare mom, uh, in the context of the, uh, Atlantic maritime0.92
00:48:48.040provinces, uh, in my more, uh, spicy moments on, on Twitter, but, uh, you know, but, but in a,
00:48:55.160in, you know, honestly, like there is, there is a real conversation to be had about, um, you know,
00:49:01.000can, can a, uh, a part of the country that is almost entirely funded during, at least during
00:49:08.120the, the, the non-fishing seasons by equalization, like, is that ever going to allow them to fully
00:49:15.740exploit their own potential? You know, my, my wife's family is from, uh, PEI and, uh, they,
00:49:23.300you know, they, they're fairly, um, fairly blatant about it. You know, they just sort of,
00:49:28.740They, they put in their, you know, eight months, seven months sometimes of, you know, working in the season, you know, the, on the, on the fishing boats or on the, you know, some, some form of, of, uh, Atlantic based commerce.
00:49:40.740And then they, you know, they sign the check and they take their EI for the rest of the year.
00:49:45.100Like that's just kind of how it, how it goes, you know?
00:49:47.000And so if you have a population that is used to that way of living, how are they ever going to, you know, once the gravy train ends, you know, maybe, maybe we do reach peak oil.
00:49:57.760You know, we've been, you know, peak oil has been a thing for, it's been 25 years away for the last 75 years.
00:50:06.560And, uh, and yeah, what do you do with the population that is not used to, um, having to make it through tough times, you know, on their own.
00:50:14.720And will that necessarily change for them though, either?
00:50:17.200Like, perhaps it will continue that same way that it has been.
00:50:21.240It's just like, it's cause it's not like Alberta is funding all of that four months of EI or anything like that.
00:50:27.200right? We're contributing positively to Confederation, but we're not solely funding it.
00:50:32.000So maybe some formulas need to change and funding will come from elsewhere. Quebec might not like
00:50:37.400it if they have to start putting some different things on the balance sheet and all of a sudden
00:50:40.860they're a half province. They might have to start developing that, what, billion cubic meters of
00:50:49.240natural gas that this have not province currently sits on? That's not in our business plan though.
00:50:59.960The difficult thing is Quebec literally enacted policies to prevent that.
00:51:07.040So they've hamstrung themselves through policy, which I don't know what it would actually take for them to, like, they would have to reform a bunch of legislation even to start developing it right now.
00:51:19.540So that kind of goes against another argument that comes up is that the talk of independence or the talk of succession will hurt investment.
00:51:31.520And I think there can be a temporary, not chilling, but like a waiting effect.
00:51:38.900And this happens during elections, too.
00:51:41.960companies do not spend a lot of money right before an election when the like they don't know what
00:51:48.360policies are downstream because they're like well if these people get in then it might go this way
00:51:53.240if those people get in it might go a different way so they're going to wait for more clarity
00:51:57.800on the direction and they're not going to spend a bunch of money and invest
00:52:01.500during a pivot point or like a transitional period but i think if the if there's a clear
00:52:09.460vision in Alberta. And it doesn't need to be perfect because investment relies on like
00:52:16.520comparative factors more than absolute factors. So if Alberta is like 10% more competitive than
00:52:25.960the rest of Canada, that would be enough to draw investment in if there is a clear vision.
00:52:32.340So I don't think Quebec's issue was the talk of separation. I think it was a combination
00:52:38.560of language laws and policies, like self-restrictive policies when it came to their own development
00:52:46.180that coincided with a period of their push towards independence.
00:52:51.680So these comparisons will pop up, unfortunately, and we're seeing them time and time again
00:52:59.700where like Quebec's used as the example of what not to do, but people are not treating Alberta
00:53:07.720is like, well, we're not the same as Quebec, we're in that contributor versus recipient.
00:53:15.400Yeah. And I could see that, you know, immediately following independence or leading up to that
00:53:20.360referendum vote, that possibly there would be, you know, some uncertainty and companies would
00:53:25.320wait for that little time period to figure out exactly what's going on. But shortly afterwards,
00:53:31.000like Alberta will be able to unlock the natural resources that we've had policy locked by our
00:53:38.880federal government for decades. So I can't understand how our trade and value would not
00:53:45.240go up astronomically. And that's like in the value of freedom too, there are projections of that.
00:53:51.120And if we don't pursue that, then we know we're going to continue to lose economic
00:53:56.500abilities. I think it was since 2006, we've lost over $200 billion in economic activity due to
00:54:07.620federal policies. But it's not just $200 billion, because when you put in the multiplier effect for
00:54:12.300that, it's actually like $1.25 trillion that have been lost from Alberta because of our federal
00:54:19.260policies. So again, doing nothing has some huge consequences, but going forwards and doing
00:54:25.520something about it. I think there's only upside to our prosperity. Yeah. Heavy industry companies
00:54:32.340famously hate, uh, uh, not having a heavy handed, heavy handed bureaucracy and, uh, and fake
00:54:39.760environmental policy levied on them, right? They, they're, they're just, they're, they're big fans
00:54:43.980of those things. Um, uh, I'm curious, maybe, uh, you could, uh, tell us from, from your perspective
00:54:49.500on the farm, are there any things you, you guys have talked about that would, um, make your lives
00:54:54.780a little bit easier if you if you kind of got out from under some some federal regulations that uh
00:55:01.980what we maybe lost james um like on on the farm what are some things that you guys might see that
00:55:07.980would get better for you make your lives a little easier one of the big things that is talked about
00:55:12.940it's not just that would make farmers lives better either but that in the sovereign alberta we could
00:55:17.580actually constitutionally protect property rights which we don't have in canada right now and with
00:55:23.420that you could also have gun laws property rights so those two big those are two big ones especially
00:55:30.140since our land is our basis for our economic activity so that would be kind of a huge thing
00:55:37.740no kidding right there eliminating carbon taxes yes yeah for your fuel and feed and on and and
00:55:47.100fertilizer and all that right yeah last year they passed a federal government passed i think
00:55:53.260it was bill c 293 sometimes they get the numbers mixed up i think that's what it was it was the
00:55:57.740climate preparedness act and in there it had you know just a couple small little lines that
00:56:03.740in the events of uh emergency the government can go and seize your land and seize your herd
00:56:12.700oh why would you need to make legislation like that why would you need like why would you ever
00:56:17.960need to put that into law what sort of emergency what they deem as an emergency exactly what what
00:56:27.020even is an emergency and why would you need to take someone's herd why would you need to take
00:56:32.400their land so i think property rights for me would be a huge one yeah yeah honking and trucks
00:56:39.400are an emergency. So I can only imagine the type of emergency that would require, uh, uh, seizing
00:56:44.080her. What, uh, what do you guys, um, what, what is the, I don't know how to, can you, can you tell
00:56:50.480I'm a city boy? What do you grow on the farm? What is your farm? We're a grain farm. So we just
00:56:57.460have grain. So we've grown peas, canola, wheat, and barley. Oh yes. And we usually do about a
00:57:03.800four-year crop rotation on most of it so that works out pretty well my my wife's family um from
00:57:11.000from pei they're uh they're potato farmers and they uh they rotate between um potato and soybean
00:57:18.840and i think a third crop but uh but potatoes and soybeans are the are the main ones they like to
00:57:24.560rotate between because i don't know science science reasons yeah and we can't even grow
00:57:30.320those up here but if you go further south in alberna there's a lot of potatoes and sugar beets
00:57:35.680yeah it's really cool just to drive by different fields and see all different kinds of crops in
00:57:39.380different areas i love it yeah yeah whenever we're in the car together he can point out at any
00:57:44.280just seeing just by seeing the sprouts oh yeah well that's gonna be barley and that's gonna be
00:57:49.480whatever and yeah there's a there's a lot of value that um you know james and i are both uh are both
00:57:55.800city boys and we uh something that we've learned more and more through this independence movement
00:58:01.060are you you you must know tim hoven right yep yeah so we interviewed tim and you know we learned
00:58:07.860about um um his his regenerative uh ranching methods and stuff that are you know pretty much
00:58:14.640the the envy of other ranchers you know across canada at least um and and we've really gotten
00:58:20.400an appreciation for what happens in rural Alberta. And we really like, I wouldn't say that, you know,
00:58:28.120James and I sometimes refer to each other as recovering leftists because we are, we grew up
00:58:33.640fairly, you know, liberal in the city. We're both musicians and we, you know, the circles that we
00:58:37.620were in are just traditionally very, very leftist. Right. And as we sort of grew and became more
00:58:43.680conservative and more uh libertarian in our mindset we uh we realized that like how much
00:58:49.780how much real world wisdom and knowledge there are there is on on on the farms and in rural
00:58:55.800rural uh areas do you ever face um i don't know how i'd say it but like do people ever
00:59:04.480underestimate you because of your your background like you're not a lawyer you're not a politician
00:59:08.440like do people ever say like hey what what do you have to contribute to this movie like or are they
00:59:13.280are they fairly like do they respect the the background and and respect your your roots of
00:59:18.520where you're coming from that you're a real you know true blue albertan i think i get both actually
00:59:25.360like there there is some people that think that if you're a farmer you're from like you're a simpler
00:59:30.900mindset right um yeah you know maybe your education level your skill level is low but
00:59:36.680like and i invite lots of people that my friends in the city to come out at harvest time just to
00:59:41.580see the equipment we run and the technology we use and the processes for like keeping the soil
00:59:47.680optimal and all different things like that. So that one's kind of easy to deal with. It's just
00:59:52.960unfortunate that people tend to overgeneralize anyways. And then there's a large group of
00:59:59.340people too that I think are just so far removed now from farming. Like a generation ago, everyone
01:00:04.120had a grandparent or an uncle or someone that was still on the farm and you would go there in the
01:00:08.640summers and spend some time on the farm and you had some kind of connection to it but now we're
01:00:13.000kind of another generation removed from that that people don't really have the farm connection so
01:00:17.840they're they're actually like impressed and and have wonder about it and awe and you know to kind
01:00:23.820of almost think it's a little bit magical that oh you have these big fields where you grow things
01:00:28.100and they don't you know know how it happens or what the processes are like so that's kind of
01:00:33.340cool to have those conversations too where it's just like it is very valued and they're very
01:00:37.720interested in it. Yeah, well, it is a very, you know, it's the running joke about, you know,
01:00:43.980the city dwellers of, you know, like, well, where does meat come from and where does bread come
01:00:48.980from? Well, it comes from the grocery store, right? Yeah, that's right. And as our cities
01:00:54.540densify, you know, speaking about immigration earlier, our cities densify, our population gets
01:00:59.680more and more closed in, you know, with infills and apartments and things like this. And people
01:01:05.400really do lose the connection to the land you know it doesn't actually take that far driving out of
01:01:10.520the city before you realize like holy smokes like we've got a lot of there's a lot of open country
01:01:15.480in this province that's that's part of what makes alberta independence so valuable is that we're
01:01:19.480such a people i think i think don't realize how resource rich we are and how many different types
01:01:25.160of land and how uh fruitful our particular slice of of the country is yeah and i know from talking
01:01:33.240into like Keith Wilson and different ones