The Critical Compass Podcast - The Holmes Sisters： Ambassadors for Gen Z Conservative Politics in Alberta

00:00:00.000 It's a whole different fight than being on scene, you know, putting your life on media.

00:00:07.540 That's something me and Macy have only recently started doing because we spent the last five years just trying to understand the roadmap.

00:00:15.080 Where are we? What is Canada? Who are we in it? What is Alberta's place in?

00:00:20.820 Like, what's your version of bargaining for better? What's your measurement of better? Is it equal? Is it thriving?

00:00:27.300 The argument can be made that the best deal is for those who decide that we should probably be our own country because, again, it is a question of do you want to just, you know, keep your bottom line and it's a little less stressful or do you want to see what it could look like if we were actually thriving?

00:00:57.300 Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Critical Compass. I'm Mike and this is James.

00:01:05.180 As always, we are here with the Holmes sisters with Madison and Macy Holmes from At Home With Holmes.

00:01:12.400 Yeah?

00:01:13.240 Nice. Yeah, that was good.

00:01:15.480 Welcome. Thank you for joining us.

00:01:17.080 We met you in person recently at the Calgary State for Alberta Town Hall and we planned this and we really appreciate you guys making it work.

00:01:25.800 So thanks for, thanks for coming.

00:01:28.260 Thanks for having us.

00:01:29.720 Oh yeah, we're excited.

00:01:30.920 Yeah.

00:01:31.700 You guys are, I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that you guys are setting the Alberta Independence X and YouTube space on fire recently.

00:01:41.780 Your clips are everywhere.

00:01:42.900 You guys are very popular and with good reason.

00:01:45.540 You feel sort of a, we were talking about this before we hit record, you guys sort of feel an interesting demographic that is maybe a little bit publicly underrepresented in the Alberta independence movement of like specifically women, but women, but specifically young women.

00:02:02.780 Um, and so maybe you could start us off by just sort of, um, introducing yourselves, how you guys got involved with this space at all and then sort of what it's been like for you in the last, you know, few months kind of being kind of one of one in this, uh, in this movement so far.

00:02:19.300 Or two of two, as it were.

00:02:22.880 That's true.

00:02:23.640 Yeah.

00:02:23.760 You don't get one with the other.

00:02:26.500 Um, it kind of, I mean, we have a family of seven.

00:02:30.820 I mean, it wasn't always that way.

00:02:32.160 We were initially five and then when COVID hit, ended up adopting a kid.

00:02:37.260 Not like actually adopting, but like our family likes to adopt children.

00:02:41.460 Yeah, if they need a place to go, we end up bringing them in.

00:02:45.780 That's not an invitation.

00:02:47.140 No, it's not.

00:02:48.700 You're full.

00:02:49.600 But, yes, we are full in this economy.

00:02:53.200 Oh my gosh.

00:02:54.120 You need that many people to sustain a household.

00:02:56.180 That's true.

00:02:56.860 Um, but once, once COVID hit, we started doing research and as a family, just trying to figure out what was going on, um, in the pharmaceutical industry, in our governmental industry, you name it.

00:03:09.380 We were just trying to understand and then why so many people were afraid.

00:03:14.140 So you have to look into the biology and the psychology of different people.

00:03:18.200 And it was sometime after that where we were attending political groups just to get involved.

00:03:26.680 Because once the COVID thing happened, we realized, oh, we actually have to have our vision and our eyesight on our government at all times.

00:03:37.420 Okay, so we have to pay attention, not just vote once every four years.

00:03:41.680 What does that look like?

00:03:43.240 And so things like your CA board that you could get on it and then voting for a board of directors at an AGM for UCP or an NDP, though.

00:03:53.360 I will say, because I used to say it doesn't really matter which party, because if you're going to be involved, you have to be able to, people say the UCP aligns more with our values or the NDP aligns more with our values.

00:04:06.160 But if you're going to be involved, you have to be a member of whatever party is in.

00:04:11.960 Though I've met people who were involved in the NDP and they said it's actually not as easy to get on a CA board or even to get into the AGM as it is in the UCP party.

00:04:21.480 They actually make it easier for the grassroots people.

00:04:24.220 So I thought, okay, that's something to consider.

00:04:25.880 So if an NDP government had gotten in in Alberta, maybe we couldn't have gotten as involved as we are now.

00:04:33.660 And so that's something that is always interesting to look back in hindsight.

00:04:36.360 But we went to an Alberta Prosperity Project pancake breakfast at the ranchman's.

00:04:44.020 And it was because we were, again, just trying to garner information.

00:04:48.680 And we heard this was a thing.

00:04:50.080 We went, what the heck is this about Alberta separation independence?

00:04:53.520 And this was prior to us realizing the history of how long Alberta was actually trying to gain more equality, like what Quebec has had.

00:05:03.280 I didn't know about the Alberta agenda, anything like that at the time.

00:05:08.620 But it was after that event where we realized, oh, there's a lot more to learn about Alberta as a people and then what we can actually do legally to gain more independence.

00:05:21.600 So it was this simultaneous as we were getting more involved in things like the UCP, provincial politics.

00:05:28.400 You'd figure they'd be completely opposed because that's how it's painted now.

00:05:31.540 Provincial politics, UCP, you have to be opposed to Alberta independence.

00:05:36.600 They're not the same thing.

00:05:37.660 It's like, well, surprise, surprise, it's not.

00:05:41.580 And that's what we learned because we grew up with both.

00:05:46.320 Yeah, I'd say she answered that question.

00:05:48.120 Perfect. And then so now that you've been involved with it for a few months now, you know, kind of as the movement has started to, you know, pull itself up a little bit and become more mainstream, I mean, we're being talked about and slandered on the news every day now, it seems.

00:06:05.240 How has it been for you guys being like sort of being that, you know, different demographic that, you know, people wouldn't look at you and say, oh, yeah, these two look like Alberta separatists.

00:06:16.460 How is that kind of felt?

00:06:17.520 It's funny because the online realm is atrocious.

00:06:22.980 So some of the trolls out there are definitely not being so kind to us.

00:06:28.840 And it was funny.

00:06:29.560 There was one in particular insult that just got me, which was saying like, oh, a couple of homeschooled winners.

00:06:34.820 And I actually took that as a compliment because I'm like, man, I wish we were homeschooled.

00:06:38.100 Right.

00:06:38.320 Because I'm like now starting to understand that self-education is a way better route than letting the government or the state that's trying to like trying to co-opt you and trying to essentially kill you.

00:06:50.560 They are not going to teach you how to overthrow them.

00:06:52.800 So I'm like, oh, that would have been better.

00:06:55.260 But in terms of the overall, lots of lots of people have been surprised to see a younger demographic for sure.

00:07:03.160 And some that are in favor of separatism and Alberta independence are obviously happy to see the demographic.

00:07:12.040 They do particularly take like an intrigue as to what about our generation needs to kind of hear.

00:07:21.420 Like, what do they need to hear in order to, you know, be potentially persuaded to the idea of independence?

00:07:27.360 And I think that the thing that is separates us from different age demographics, particularly just older ones, is that they will get caught on the idea of, I guess, the Canadian identity.

00:07:43.120 And so they think, well, I love being Canadian and I'm just, I'm, I am Canadian.

00:07:49.200 So it's really hard for me to, you know, cross over that mind gap into, whoa, becoming independent.

00:07:55.300 That's insane.

00:07:56.380 But for our age group, I can speak for myself where that's not really a, I don't think that that's something that hits home for us.

00:08:05.600 It's the idea of, oh, being a Canadian because, hey, we're, we're young.

00:08:09.600 So already we're like, we haven't been it for long compared to others.

00:08:15.440 And then also I think that the way things are going economically is what I think is a strong persuasion to our demographic.

00:08:25.660 Because Maddie and I do lots of work and with our family on like the brain and hemispheres and such.

00:08:33.440 And so we did like an entire book study on the master and his emissary and it was us deep diving into that work.

00:08:40.540 And what we found was like those who I guess are in their sort of teenage years that are in their more self-centered states, if you will, they have their left hemispheres in the prime of their development.

00:08:56.280 And what we know about that is that the left hemisphere, it wants certainty.

00:09:01.720 And in order to do that, it has to make things fixed in time.

00:09:04.800 And so the right hemisphere would be responsible for expanding and keeping open views, open mindedness, but also just keeping a larger picture in mind because it needs to keep in context time.

00:09:16.000 But whereas the left hemisphere, it panics, its primary modus operandi can be fear based.

00:09:21.840 And when that happens, it squanders time and it squanders your ability to make critical decisions.

00:09:27.400 We saw that even with COVID.

00:09:28.440 So what I'm finding is that because our demographic is still in the prime of our left hemispheres developing and not a lot of people know that, we do centralize around convenience and we are panicked.

00:09:43.160 And I think that that's something that is unfortunate, but I think that the premise with Alberta independence, that was such an appealing one because we were learning about equalization because I didn't know about it.

00:09:55.240 And then we were learning about just, oh, so the best, like, I'd say the best thing that I've learned from this idea of Alberta independence was it's been the best thought experiment that I've ever really had to go down thinking about.

00:10:10.920 And I think that most people should be thinking about because now you're getting into the idea of what does a prosperous country look like, period.

00:10:19.120 But you're working with the context of our country, obviously, or sorry, with our province, wink, wink.

00:10:26.920 We'll release this episode in 10 months and leave that edit in.

00:10:31.360 Boom.

00:10:32.500 I just, I made a prediction.

00:10:34.240 It's going to come true.

00:10:36.220 But so I think that if we start to think about what does a protective country actually look like in a successful, thriving one, that's what's been the best part about this.

00:10:45.760 And I wish that we were being taught in school and, you know, even kind of like baselining it towards the idea of the American system of economics and all of these different, all of these things that people are worried about as well, like balkanization or what about the U.S.

00:11:01.120 Or what about geopolitics, geopolitics, right, inter-foreign interference, all of these things, technocracy, all of these things are good considerations. 0.59

00:11:08.940 And so even for those that are, I guess, opposed to the idea, I'm quite happy for them to be when they ask, you know, critical questions instead of pertaining to the original contents of your question, being trolls and calling my sister and I like homeschooled whores or something like that.

00:11:27.760 Sorry, that was really long-winded.

00:11:31.640 That's good.

00:11:32.480 That was an interesting thing that you point, like calling it a thought experiment, because I remember we weren't homeschooled.

00:11:38.740 We did go through the standard Alberta curriculum, even online schooling.

00:11:43.680 And some people conflate online schooling because we did online high school.

00:11:46.900 It's not the same as homeschooling, because homeschooling, you can pick your own curriculum.

00:11:50.980 Online schooling is just the Alberta curriculum online.

00:11:54.220 And so we also went to a Calgary girls charter school.

00:11:59.240 It's in Calgary.

00:12:01.660 And it, I remember putting us through those very thought experiments where they would say, OK, if you were to make your own country.

00:12:10.000 And so they put us in groups and they had us create our own utopia and asking kids to do that when we have no context and no experience.

00:12:19.960 But we think we do because we're young.

00:12:22.220 And then you give us a couple pages in a textbook that make us think, yeah, we know how to run our country.

00:12:27.960 Meanwhile, when you look at all of the youth that we've talked about and met at these events that are already on board.

00:12:35.000 The reason they're on board is because of what Macy alluded to, the very practical economics of the situation.

00:12:41.300 One girl said it was she was very, very liberal.

00:12:45.720 She would she was wondering to herself, why do people hate Trudeau so much?

00:12:50.200 Because he has nice hair.

00:12:51.640 She didn't she could care in the least.

00:12:53.160 But once she had to pay for gas, once she started, when she got started adulting. 0.99

00:12:59.420 Adulting is what she called it. 0.97

00:13:00.940 And then she got a fiance.

00:13:02.360 She thought about, OK, kids in the future.

00:13:04.460 She said, oh, my gosh, do I want my kids learning what I learned in school?

00:13:08.540 All of those things, the future potential.

00:13:11.780 That's what started because you start to realize and that's where a lot of a lot of kids are at in our age group.

00:13:19.260 They're realizing where things are now.

00:13:21.740 Their future potential is very minuscule.

00:13:25.000 And there are tons of young men that have said they're so upset with the older generations looking down, saying back in my day, back in my day.

00:13:33.320 Because there are individuals that I've heard say, look, if I take me as I work now, as hard as I do with my work ethic and my character, put me in your day, I'd have four houses, not one.

00:13:46.860 But I can't even afford one because of today's day and age.

00:13:50.480 And so a lot of youth, they aren't concerned about the identity.

00:13:55.300 You don't have to strip down any of the facade about what Canada is or what it isn't.

00:14:02.060 It's them just realizing, oh, it's straight up just going to make my life easier.

00:14:07.440 I might be able to see a light at the end of the tunnel because right now they don't.

00:14:11.860 And it's that simple for our generation.

00:14:13.960 And so just getting that across and continually those little numbers about how much is going to be left in your pocket.

00:14:20.540 Those are the things that are hitting home for our generation.

00:14:23.260 I guess it depends if there's a scapegoat involved because there are people – I 100% agree that's how you would start convincing people who have spent less years on the earth.

00:14:41.340 So they have less years in a firm identity, but at the same time, their snapshot of the world can also be like summed up in – you have these little pillars that – almost these little archetype of stories that people are drip-fed as you kind of get a sense of like, well, what was the world in the last 100 years?

00:15:04.040 And you've got like this bad man did this bad thing and this country did that and that's why we have these rules.

00:15:09.360 And you're still fighting with some of these deeply held archetypes.

00:15:12.960 And that's why I hate to bring up the orange man right now, but it keeps coming up in a lot of these conversations because that is – it's weaponizing a kind of a brash archetype, like a loud father, like authority figure.

00:15:34.000 And in the case of a lot of – what I'm getting the sense is that there's people – a lot of these younger people, they are more akin – they're still – they still have the potential to be – to direct this fear and anger towards a scapegoat like that.

00:15:53.000 And that's the risk, especially coming out of COVID is I feel like we have to understand that people have like multiple years of brain damage from this event.

00:16:09.060 And I – like I joke about brain damage, but I would actually say there's some actual – there's some trauma.

00:16:16.440 There's some – like there are people that are not the same.

00:16:20.180 You lock people indoors and you have this fear-mongering messaging for that many years.

00:16:25.220 And then you sell them these solutions, you've essentially, by all means, like demoralized them and said, we are the authority that you need to follow.

00:16:38.480 And that's a hard thing to rewire.

00:16:40.880 But I think the hope and what you're describing is that even to fully talk about independence, if you can keep it away from these talks about Trump or talks about these – like the traitor aspect.

00:16:56.000 And if you get down to the actual – like, well, if you get down to this – like the foundational level of like, well, what is confederation?

00:17:03.860 How is it supposed to work?

00:17:05.840 What does it look like when provinces are working together?

00:17:09.120 Like what would a healthy, functioning confederation – how would that actually function?

00:17:14.880 How would that actually work?

00:17:16.680 And then compare it to what we're seeing now.

00:17:19.660 And then people have questions like, well, what about equalization?

00:17:22.840 You still have to dispel these myths.

00:17:24.780 People say, like, well, no, everybody pays the same taxes.

00:17:27.960 They're the same percentages.

00:17:29.620 And then you have to say, like, well, Alberta on a whole is a net contributor.

00:17:36.720 And – but they'll say things like, no, Alberta government doesn't pay equalization.

00:17:40.660 Like, yeah, they don't write a giant equalization check.

00:17:43.660 They – it's summed up.

00:17:45.960 It's like money laundering.

00:17:47.000 So, like, you get these surface level things.

00:17:50.900 We have to unpack them in every single – every single case.

00:17:55.420 But I think the project itself will start revealing some of these layers if we can get past some of those first gut reactions.

00:18:05.360 That's – that's a good point.

00:18:08.320 Because even me and Macy, I mean, we're blowing up on media now.

00:18:12.740 But we've been in this since COVID.

00:18:15.700 So it's been five years minimum for our family just trying to – but the thing is, when you're gaining knowledge, it's a whole different fight than being on scene.

00:18:27.260 You know, putting your life on media, that's something me and Macy have only recently started doing because we spent the last five years just trying to understand the roadmap.

00:18:38.220 Where are we?

00:18:39.540 What is Canada?

00:18:41.040 Who are we in it?

00:18:42.600 What is Alberta's place in?

00:18:44.320 What is Calgary and a municipal board?

00:18:47.700 How many councillors do I have to vote on? 0.99

00:18:49.880 You know, all of those things and then searching up the research into even, like you alluded to, with COVID, how – and still, how much research we had to put in and still have to put in to figure out those stupid gene therapies. 0.94

00:19:04.220 Okay, because that's still going on.

00:19:06.080 There is a real downstream effect of those.

00:19:08.560 And so the whole battle about what you're talking about, those scapegoats, in order to combat any one of them, you have to be really educated.

00:19:18.700 An education takes time.

00:19:20.700 Reading takes time.

00:19:22.300 We're blessed to be able to listen to as many podcasts as we do because we have an accommodating job or we're not on the rigs.

00:19:28.360 We don't have to listen to our men, be wary of 30 different hazards at all times.

00:19:33.900 So we've spent the last couple years on the back line just trying to gain knowledge.

00:19:39.160 It's a quiet deal, but it's put us in a position now where if a youth or somebody else had a question, people do.

00:19:47.000 All the skeptical people that should be skeptical.

00:19:50.620 I mean, COVID happened because we weren't skeptical as a society, so I will never necessarily get mad at another skeptical person.

00:19:57.880 We're supposed to ask questions.

00:19:59.720 Those questions are now arising, but because of all the time we've put, even though it has been on the back lines, we're in a position where now we can answer them.

00:20:06.720 And we can do so with patience and respectability.

00:20:10.540 And even that's a skill because one thing you alluded to, James, before we hit record was the fact that all of these events and podcasts like this, they're tools.

00:20:19.820 We're trying to give people, and the average, that's another reason why having so many canvassers, just plebs, plebeians going around to their neighbors, the more canvassers the better because it's in the individual conversations. 0.84

00:20:33.520 You guys know at least 70 people that you, that me and Macy could never know and vice versa.

00:20:39.960 And so all these events and these conversations are supposed to give tools about how to talk to people and how to share the information without projecting your values and projecting your ideology, because everybody has one.

00:20:54.740 Just in order to meet people wherever they're at, because people have, some people have scapegoats, some people think, and that's on both sides, including with the orange man bad type thing.

00:21:05.220 I mean, you get orange man bad, and so, you know, don't want to be independent.

00:21:10.500 And then we get, oh, I bloody love the orange man.

00:21:14.100 He could never do any wrong, have to be independent.

00:21:16.580 And I wouldn't necessarily, you know, I like to pick the middle road.

00:21:19.780 I can see things from both sides and try to build the bridge where if you're a bit extreme anywhere, you can't really find it.

00:21:27.680 So, yeah, those are, those are problems, which is why education is probably the most important thing, which is why I like the town hall format, because it's not just an echo chamber rally cry.

00:21:38.540 It's here's some information.

00:21:39.860 And you get so many different people that are signing even the petition for so many different reasons.

00:21:45.220 Some people want it just for the negotiation sake.

00:21:47.640 They don't even really, they're hoping for the better deal.

00:21:51.300 And, you know, in my perspective, they haven't yet done the work to realize the likelihood of us getting that is not exactly there.

00:21:59.300 But that doesn't mean that their intentions are wrong.

00:22:03.280 And so you can just go along and you can't drag, you know, you can't make a horse drink. 0.61

00:22:07.780 You can only bring it to the water.

00:22:09.440 So that's what we're trying to do.

00:22:11.740 That's what we're trying to learn.

00:22:13.860 Yeah, I feel like, oh, sorry, no, no, you please.

00:22:16.420 No, I was going to say, like, I was talking about this with my other family members, like my brother and such, because I was hearing the argument about what Maddie was talking about, of how some people are going to sign mainly because they want the bargain.

00:22:32.340 And a part of me and him were both going, like, I feel like this is really, truly, though, a matter of more like a question of manifest destiny.

00:22:41.200 And like, actually, do you want to like, what's your version of bargaining for better?

00:22:46.380 What's your measurement of better?

00:22:48.020 Is it equal?

00:22:48.880 Is it thriving?

00:22:49.940 Because if it's equal, you might be able to get that, maybe.

00:22:56.240 But if it's better, like truly, truly better for Alberta, then I don't see that coming down the pipe.

00:23:03.420 But also, it's one of those things where even I don't haven't taken political science, but I mean, like, I feel like it doesn't take much to realize that when you're going to make a threat, as in which is what we're doing, which is Canada, your biggest economic hub.

00:23:18.560 If you're the person who funds the welfare state that all the provinces rely on, we are going to leave and you will not have access to our resources and our wealth, that is a threat.

00:23:31.520 And then if we, if Ottawa sees that we're not really taking it seriously and it's just as simple as, oh, well, we can give the talking cows, I don't know, another pipeline and then they'll be happy and we bargained for a better deal.

00:23:44.640 Look it, there you go.

00:23:45.520 So I feel like it makes our entire threat look null and void and the entire cause look like it's less than what it's really meant and supposed to be.

00:23:54.460 It's not, and like, no, no shame to anybody wants that better deal because that's kind of what the whole premise of this was.

00:24:01.040 It's just the argument can be made that the best deal is for those who decide that we should probably be our own country.

00:24:08.140 Because, again, it is a question of do you want to just, you know, keep your bottom line and it's a little less stressful or do you want to see what it could look like if we were actually thriving, like making our own decisions for ourselves?

00:24:20.520 And I think that that's what led into our up and coming story as well was because Albertans are quite industrious and quite conscientious people.

00:24:29.060 And we have a bit of a trailblazer mentality where we like to just do it ourselves.

00:24:35.900 It's a blessing and a curse at the same time.

00:24:39.220 But because we have that, I think a lot of Albertans are curious as to what that might look like.

00:24:45.680 And so far we've been using the not just whimsical fantasies, but also just straight up facts, data, plausibility to say, no, this actually could end up far better than any of us have actually been able to imagine.

00:25:01.140 And then lastly, to add to the scapegoat comment as well with, I guess, like Trump bad and all that pun jazz, no matter what, I think that like and this could even be a perspective that could even turn down someone who's for Alberta independence and someone who's not for Alberta independence.

00:25:22.720 It's an overall general statement that is just going to hold true no matter what circumstances.

00:25:27.380 If we became independent, we would still have to deal with bad actors and foreign interference and any, it could be orange man bad, it could be any person, X person bad, it doesn't matter.

00:25:40.700 And so whether we're in Canada or out of Canada, but I feel like the difference here is that we get to be our own negotiators now.

00:25:48.200 And if, as Maddie said, we are an educated populace, because I think it was Benjamin Franklin who said, it's a republic if you can keep it.

00:25:56.140 And if you can keep it, that's the entire journey of knowledge that you need in order to vet these persons to deem them bad, quote unquote, right?

00:26:05.480 And even then, two things are true at the same time.

00:26:08.100 There's always this person you deem as bad.

00:26:10.400 Maybe they are in some regards here, maybe not in others here.

00:26:14.100 Are you looking at the people around them and such and such?

00:26:16.880 And so if we were going into Alberta becoming independent under, I don't know, the Joe Biden regime that's going on in the United States, a lot of people would be like, ooh, that doesn't seem like a very good idea.

00:26:29.300 But I don't think it would deter me any way or any more, because I'm just thinking, well, we now get to control our own destiny.

00:26:37.540 And hopefully, if we continue with what Maddie said, these educational town halls and more people just getting aware of what they need to be looking out for, then I feel like it's like that game Red Rover.

00:26:49.220 We're all, like, linking arms.

00:26:50.800 And no matter what they throw at us, we have the frequency and the bandwidth to just push them aside and go, no, no, no, like, this is how we're going to play things.

00:26:59.660 You mean elbows up?

00:27:00.900 Oh, God.

00:27:03.120 Oh, no, cut, cut. 0.90

00:27:05.920 Maybe a different mode of attention of elbows up.

00:27:08.380 What you both say there about the education part of it is really important.

00:27:13.560 And it's kind of, it's something that we've noticed in our, you know, when we've tried to speak to people who, you know, whether they be Forever Canada protesters or just people who are just generally against the idea of Alberta independence,

00:27:25.600 because they view it as a, you know, a left-right issue rather than a top-down issue, like you kind of said, too.

00:27:33.420 Some, just, you know, for reference, something that I like to tell people who are in my life who I know are quite liberal and they view this, you know, you'd have to be a far-right, whatever, to be into Alberta independence.

00:27:46.420 As I say, listen, the last two federal elections were called before the polls even closed in Alberta.

00:27:53.740 So even if you're a diehard NDP supporter, you should want independence, too, because there will come a time when the federal government will switch to conservative, as happens, you know, every 10, 15 years.

00:28:05.740 And we're not that far away from Alberta being an orange province. 0.93

00:28:09.300 So don't you want your voice to matter more in that case or the other way?

00:28:13.060 So that's just something for them to consider.

00:28:14.700 But my point is, is that a lot of the opposition that we've been seeing to the Alberta independence movement stems from not just a lack of education on the, or a lack of knowledge or study on the particulars, you know, like about the economic aspect and the resource aspect and things like this.

00:28:33.920 But it comes from an emotional place where people are nostalgic for a Canada that doesn't really exist anymore and may not have ever existed how they're portraying it.

00:28:45.340 When you are talking to your friends, specifically in the younger demographic, where are you pointing them to sort of bypass that, maybe that initial emotional response and kind of get down to the core of the, of the logic and the rationale behind it?

00:29:02.340 And that's actually really funny because in order, what is the line, Macy, you always say?

00:29:09.640 I mean, nobody cares about your facts until they know how much you care.

00:29:14.120 And so no one cares how much, you know, until they know how much you care.

00:29:18.400 Yeah.

00:29:18.560 Yeah.

00:29:18.900 And so, which is why, again, me and Macy, our whole family, we don't like the left versus right political dichotomy because also knowing the brain, everybody has a brain.

00:29:31.580 Everybody has a left hemisphere and the left hemisphere likes to come to grandiose conclusions with small amounts of information.

00:29:38.460 And people do this on both sides.

00:29:40.360 There's a reason there's extremes.

00:29:41.820 And then there's a bell curve in between.

00:29:44.160 And so when it comes to the conservatives, they like to claim, oh, we're so factual and we don't care about feelings.

00:29:50.740 You know, facts don't care about your feelings.

00:29:51.960 And it's such a catchy slogan.

00:29:53.740 And, you know, we've had it on cups.

00:29:55.600 But when you actually watch yourself interact with these people, when a protester is in front of you, you don't hit them over the head with the independence Bible.

00:30:07.460 You don't do that.

00:30:08.360 You ask them, why are you why are you here and what are you worried about?

00:30:11.900 And you you wear your heart on your sleeve and you treat them like a normal human being until they show you that they're not treating you like a normal human being.

00:30:19.480 Then, you know, all bets are off.

00:30:21.220 But till that point, you treat everybody with good faith.

00:30:24.540 And so the people that are looking at Canada with a nostalgia and we we did an interview with a young gentleman from after our the last UCPA GM and he's not for independence.

00:30:38.000 He said, you know, I agree with Daniel Smith and in a united Canada.

00:30:43.460 Sovereign Alberta within a united Canada.

00:30:46.060 Yeah.

00:30:46.280 Still absolutely respectful, even though quite an opinionated, as most young people are.

00:30:53.660 We're very opinionated.

00:30:54.740 We think we have the answers to everything.

00:30:56.480 But still very respectful and that feeling of wanting to stay a united Canada and wanting to be a charitable neighbor and care the welfare state, you know, because economics are so hard.

00:31:10.620 No, no, Canada needs our wealth more now than ever because things are so terrible economically.

00:31:18.100 And so the answer isn't to talk about.

00:31:21.880 I mean, I find anyway, if I were to tell them and I haven't thus far, oh, this is how poorly and how victimized Alberta is. 1.00

00:31:30.220 You have to understand we are victimized more than the rest of Canada.

00:31:33.460 I don't think that's a good approach thus far.

00:31:36.900 The poor me, poor me.

00:31:38.060 I mean, maybe it went well for Black Lives Matter, but I also think that was more funding than it was real messaging, to be frank.

00:31:46.400 But going towards and saying.

00:31:49.640 If you're on a crashing plane, you put your own oxygen mask on first, otherwise you can't help somebody else.

00:31:55.460 If you're dead, you can't save other people.

00:31:58.420 And I think Alberta would be in a better position to help whatever Canada is, because a lot of people, especially people, there are people that are in the world.

00:32:08.060 In the middle and they can't get rid of Canada.

00:32:10.380 There's the delusion of what they think Canada is.

00:32:12.800 But then there's they saw the trucker convoy and they go, oh, I can't leave Canada.

00:32:18.080 Look at that.

00:32:18.800 Look at all the Canadians. 1.00

00:32:20.420 Look at how everybody came together.

00:32:22.220 And you saw the Quebecers and the Albertans both holding flags up together.

00:32:26.220 And they go, is that not what Canada is?

00:32:29.060 And it's like, perhaps it was at a point.

00:32:31.620 Perhaps it still could be.

00:32:33.440 But if you look at how reality plays out, we would be in a better position to help whatever it is that you want.

00:32:40.100 Like I said, your priorities, you have more money in your pocket to put wherever it is that you believe in.

00:32:45.160 We could make a good Neighbors Act.

00:32:47.220 Do a form of our own.

00:32:49.120 The thing is equalization right now as it is, it's not consented.

00:32:52.500 We don't get to pick the numbers, the percentages, none of that.

00:32:54.700 And so we're at a detriment because of it.

00:32:58.720 Just because we go independence, as Macy said, just in a divorce, you're not obligated to hate the other person.

00:33:03.680 So even if we leave.

00:33:05.200 I didn't say that in this podcast.

00:33:06.940 No, no.

00:33:07.660 She said that.

00:33:08.200 I have said it, yeah.

00:33:09.460 Yes, another podcast.

00:33:11.200 So we don't leave in Canada doesn't mean we hate Canada.

00:33:14.000 You know, it doesn't make us traitors.

00:33:15.560 It just means that we want to renegotiate the deal, put ourselves in a better position to be more charitable in the future.

00:33:22.280 And that's something that people don't consider.

00:33:24.120 It's like, did you, what if we just want to be able to help people better?

00:33:27.140 I mean, that's why I started doing any, listen, who, what, what 18 year old listens to podcasts about Canadian history and the railroads.

00:33:38.560 And it's not something I was interested in, but I went, I want to be able to help.

00:33:45.620 That's funny.

00:33:46.700 You're an anomaly.

00:33:47.680 I did it because I wanted to help my family.

00:33:51.480 And I thought, and then my friends, because some of my friends had questions.

00:33:54.900 And I thought, how do I become a smarter person and just a more skilled person?

00:34:00.440 That's why I lift weights.

00:34:01.540 It's not because I had this picture about Madison Holmes being this specimen.

00:34:06.060 I mean, I thought, oh my gosh, my mom might have a hard time lifting this box or we're cleaning and we have to move some sort of furniture. 0.95

00:34:13.900 And I'm like, I'm this weak woman and I can't do that.

00:34:17.080 And my mom's back is going to go sooner than I want it to.

00:34:20.100 So I was like, okay, let's lift some weights.

00:34:21.960 And same with doing research, lifting some mental weights.

00:34:25.420 Same with Alberta independence in my brain.

00:34:27.860 We're just trying to put ourselves in a better position to do the things it is that we want to do.

00:34:32.000 And that can include helping Canada.

00:34:34.060 But right now, we're not really helping Canada.

00:34:36.820 As the constitution is, as the equalization payments are, they're not actually helping.

00:34:42.500 But we could put ourselves in a better position to help ourselves and then the rest of Canada.

00:34:48.220 So that's not necessarily fighting feelings with facts.

00:34:52.240 It's finding somewhere in the middle.

00:34:55.560 Just a tiny little point to hit her point home. 0.53

00:34:59.160 It's like a cute little reiteration exactly of what she just said.

00:35:02.720 But it's like, if you're in your own household, you all have the same name.

00:35:07.000 You share the last name.

00:35:07.920 You have the same blood.

00:35:09.280 But if you feel like you don't have a say, like you as a young person perhaps can't talk to your parents

00:35:15.820 or the parents feel like they can't get through to their children, right?

00:35:19.060 Then there is a huge discrepancy on how that family dynamic is going to play out.

00:35:23.360 That's true.

00:35:23.580 And so it's kind of the same thing.

00:35:25.660 It's like, I don't think that any Albertan leaving Canada would feel like the Canadians.

00:35:31.280 Like, they may call themselves that.

00:35:33.020 But the human beings that we have been thus calling ourselves as Canadian with,

00:35:37.660 those human beings, we do not have any sense of regard that you are not our brethren still,

00:35:43.420 that you are not our family.

00:35:45.180 It's just, as Maddie was alluding to and in the analogies,

00:35:48.900 is we don't feel like we have any sort of voice.

00:35:52.080 And quite, we literally don't, as we've seen with the number of seats that we have

00:35:57.280 and the representation in the Senate and the House of Commons.

00:35:59.720 We just don't.

00:36:00.640 And so we feel like there is a discrepancy in the family unit.

00:36:04.860 And so if we can kind of like take the reins a bit ourselves

00:36:08.820 and feel like we have that individualization,

00:36:11.220 which I think any person would understand and respect,

00:36:14.120 is this is a matter of trying to determine our individualization again.

00:36:18.160 Then we can be a bit, as Maddie said, a good neighbor's act.

00:36:22.260 We can start making those decisions of like,

00:36:24.420 okay, I can breathe now.

00:36:26.580 So what do you need?

00:36:27.880 You know what I mean?

00:36:29.520 I'm not suffocating anymore.

00:36:32.100 Right.

00:36:32.280 So there's literal statistics, even like environmental stewardship.

00:36:36.120 That only goes up when your overall prosperity as an individual in a household goes up.

00:36:41.300 So, I mean, we need to economically and our energy and our production needs to go up

00:36:45.820 before we can think about being more charitable and more hospitable towards the environment,

00:36:51.300 let alone the rest of our neighbors. 0.69

00:36:52.440 Right now, people might call us, oh, you're the big bad bully and you're trying to pull.

00:36:56.180 It's like, well, maybe we'd be less of a bully if we could, like Macy said, breathe.

00:37:00.660 And right now we can't.

00:37:01.940 So just give us a minute to recuperate and then maybe we can come back around.

00:37:07.260 Well, you can dispel some of these claims pretty quick with,

00:37:11.580 so the claims of Albertans being victims.

00:37:14.680 And that's a little bit different than saying,

00:37:18.420 like, oh, poor us.

00:37:20.300 We need this from you.

00:37:21.320 Give us, give us, give us.

00:37:23.480 Like, that's a completely different scenario than us saying,

00:37:26.840 we want to live our lives.

00:37:28.580 We want to thrive.

00:37:29.560 We want to work.

00:37:30.400 We want to be able to chart our own destinies.

00:37:32.720 And we want to not be restricted in that process.

00:37:36.900 So can you let us do our own thing so we can thrive and contribute to the world?

00:37:43.460 That's a different mindset.

00:37:44.500 That's not a victim mindset.

00:37:47.420 And what you're describing with your family and yourselves of,

00:37:52.760 well, you're keeping yourselves physically and mentally healthy.

00:37:56.480 You're seeking new information.

00:37:58.560 You're growing.

00:37:59.400 And that's a contrast to a lot of people who have come to a lot of their ideas through, like, osmosis,

00:38:07.960 where they were just, like, absorbed from the people around them.

00:38:11.740 They never actually critically examined any of their core pillars.

00:38:16.540 And not everybody wants to.

00:38:21.240 But it's even this idea of, like, well, what does it mean to be Canadian?

00:38:27.500 I have two thoughts on this.

00:38:29.020 And one of them is that, right now, Albertans are actually trying to keep, like, a traditional Canadian spirit alive.

00:38:38.440 What we'd say, like, that pioneering spirit, that part of the Canadian identity,

00:38:43.920 lives in a lot of these Albertans more than it does in other people that are so quick to disparage Canada.

00:38:52.480 So you have this mention that, from Trudeau, that Canada is a post-national state with no firm identity.

00:38:59.020 During the convoy, and I heard this from some friends and family that were triggered by the Canadian flag and felt shame

00:39:09.040 because it was associated with people they thought were bad.

00:39:13.840 And they were so quick to actually kind of renounce, like, I actually kind of feel shameful when I see a Canadian flag.

00:39:22.680 I'm like, well, if you're a true patriot, like, you wouldn't, that would not be the result.

00:39:30.660 And I've worded this way before, but how was the exact wording?

00:39:39.100 It was like, well, we're seeing, like, a maple syrup branded nationalism right now,

00:39:44.460 where it's, like, the most surface level.

00:39:48.420 It's essentially an identity, a meme-based identity, which is in opposition to the states.

00:39:56.940 It's not really, it's not rooted in anything, it's not a positive claim to anything.

00:40:03.160 They still reject Canada's history. 0.79

00:40:05.460 They still think we're a colonialist, oppressive, like, country that is responsible for all these atrocities

00:40:14.960 that is somehow worth saving, and we've got to be unconditionally patriotic.

00:40:20.840 So these things don't really, these things don't really match.

00:40:24.260 So I don't know the utility, and I'm curious on other people's thoughts of, like,

00:40:30.440 even drilling down with people, like, well, what does it mean to be Canadian?

00:40:34.420 Like, what values makes it Canadian?

00:40:37.800 You can get into the, kind of these contentious, more racial arguments pretty quick,

00:40:43.680 because people do not want to talk about the racial component.

00:40:48.000 But they, well, they have infinite compassion for everybody.

00:40:52.700 But, like, well, what happens when you have infinite compassion,

00:40:55.640 people come in and they don't share your values and they don't adopt Canadian values,

00:41:00.120 first of all, you'd have to recognize that there is something that is a Canadian value.

00:41:07.000 And then you'd also have to recognize, yes, we hold those values to be more important

00:41:12.740 than other cultures' values.

00:41:14.080 So you can't just blank slate and say every culture, like, every culture is equally as valid,

00:41:21.820 like, honor killing is somehow as equally valid as the way that we handle domestic disputes here in Canada.

00:41:28.520 Like, you can't just play those games.

00:41:32.080 So not everybody wants to go down that path and think about them.

00:41:37.120 That's the only problem is you will run into these mental roadblocks where it's like,

00:41:43.460 oh, I can't think about that because I'm supposed to be compassionate as Canadian and I can't be racist.

00:41:49.400 Therefore, I need to be infinitely compassionate.

00:41:52.820 So, I don't know, the utility depends who you're actually talking to.

00:41:59.100 But there's a few layers.

00:42:01.980 The kill them with kindness tactic can sometimes be a double-edged sword because you might end up killing yourself.

00:42:09.400 And I feel like that's what the compassionate argument that you're talking about can do is,

00:42:15.220 I mean, like, I don't know, my brain can't not think of it in, like, family dynamics.

00:42:19.860 It's because you're a woman.

00:42:21.980 Probably.

00:42:23.220 And you have a good family, it looks like, too.

00:42:25.200 And I have a good family.

00:42:26.020 But also, it's taking the micro and macroing it.

00:42:30.240 And that's kind of what we're trying to describe here.

00:42:32.920 Because even the compassionate argument, again, when, like, someone who's saying,

00:42:38.800 I need to be compassionate as a Canadian, I feel like the thing that I would kind of look at them and wonder is,

00:42:47.840 whenever you felt like you were having a dispute with someone you really cared about,

00:42:52.680 like, they were really close to you, were you, like, was it suffocating to be so compassionate?

00:42:59.800 Were you biting your tongue, right?

00:43:01.220 Because that's what actually sometimes compassion can do is, and I'm speaking as a woman, right,

00:43:06.360 where you just feel like, okay, I got to shut up now. 0.96

00:43:08.940 And that sucks sometimes. 1.00

00:43:10.120 Like, it really does because you're like, I just want to hit you over the head with a hammer. 1.00

00:43:12.920 But I can't. 0.98

00:43:15.060 And so you're trying to be compassionate as you're hearing someone talk in your brain, 0.95

00:43:21.000 what's in your brain nonsense, right?

00:43:22.660 And so I look at them and be like, if you've ever experienced that before, 0.94

00:43:27.040 did you really think that staying silent was the best option?

00:43:30.000 And then probably chances are, like, especially if they get a little bit aggressive

00:43:34.460 and you find that, like, there are maybe those types of individuals

00:43:37.480 where they're not seeing their own contradictions of need to be compassionate,

00:43:41.380 but I'm just going to beat you over the head, right?

00:43:43.200 Well, then I can look at them and be like, well, I mean,

00:43:46.500 I applaud you for wanting to speak your mind and to be honest with me

00:43:50.720 because it shows that there's a genuine care, sort of.

00:43:54.920 But it's also, like, that's where I think that that's where the kind of thought process

00:44:01.520 needs to be coming in is how, like, are you not seeing that sometimes there needs to be moments

00:44:07.160 where it's not just stay silent?

00:44:09.340 And also when you are giving your meh, it's like, I don't know,

00:44:14.900 having an argument with, like, a mom or someone really close.

00:44:18.840 Like, you just don't want to lose a relationship.

00:44:20.600 So you try to purposefully go out of your way to make sure that you're kind and compassionate.

00:44:25.000 I'd be like, well, have you ever done that before?

00:44:26.920 And if they're like, well, yeah, sure.

00:44:28.200 Well, then it's like, well, then that's, I'm not, I'm not asking you any differently.

00:44:31.300 And sometimes it's one of those things where it's, it's a marathon, not a race.

00:44:37.140 I feel like that's actually been the biggest, like, bigger picture on my brain on the micro to macro

00:44:43.760 is on the macro, and then I'll micro it, on the macro, it's not a race, it's a marathon.

00:44:49.420 If we did get independence, like, it requires a lot of different tiny little steps

00:44:54.640 in order to even get to potentially that result.

00:44:57.780 And then if we did get that, it won't happen overnight.

00:45:00.920 People have been trying to reiterate this at the Chibiak.

00:45:03.680 She's given, she almost says it every time she gives a speech,

00:45:07.020 is that it's not going to happen overnight.

00:45:08.920 And so if anything, I would think that if I was opposed to the idea,

00:45:12.180 that would be comforting to me because I'm like, oh, great.

00:45:14.380 So not all this radical change that I'm terrified of, which, okay, fair enough,

00:45:19.580 is going to happen right then and there.

00:45:22.140 I actually have time to, we are transitioning into a thing.

00:45:25.920 And I may have my voice included into this because I live here and now we're smaller

00:45:32.140 and now there's more, like, there's less people,

00:45:34.920 but more brains get to come into the decision-making 100%.

00:45:38.740 We get our voices heard.

00:45:40.280 Now, for the micro-ing of that, I feel like it's the same thing is you just have to, 0.99

00:45:46.580 I feel, and it sounds so, like, stupid, but it's like, 0.98

00:45:50.600 if you are just treating them like they're a human being 1.00

00:45:54.060 and you're not being an asshole and they're not being an asshole 0.99

00:45:56.680 and they see that you're listening before, like, and this goes left and right. 0.99

00:46:00.980 If you just be quiet and just listen to them,

00:46:05.000 then they see that you're listening and they see that you're that type of person of, like,

00:46:09.460 and they might not, like, consciously know that,

00:46:12.480 but over time you're building that rapport

00:46:14.600 and then they see that, okay, you're coming in slowly with just tiny little things

00:46:19.620 because truth takes patience.

00:46:21.060 And I think that that's also a valuable thing is, again, like race, not marathon.

00:46:24.660 So then you have that time to just plant your little seeds here and there,

00:46:28.740 but now you're really starting to play the long game

00:46:31.480 of trying to figure out a valuable process

00:46:34.780 because if it's worth something, it's going to take time.

00:46:37.220 And so, and you're not going to rush into it.

00:46:39.160 Remember when I was talking about, like, the left hemisphere thing

00:46:41.240 and the fear base and, like, it makes you feel like you need to rush

00:46:43.880 and make a decision right here, right now?

00:46:45.460 I feel like that plays into a lot of our decisions,

00:46:48.240 especially the important ones.

00:46:49.660 So if anything, we should be affording ourselves more time.

00:46:52.440 We should be affording ourselves the ability to have,

00:46:55.340 take the time to show that we are listening

00:46:57.500 and that we are being listened to and applaud someone

00:47:00.720 that you disagree with for listening.

00:47:02.200 You're like, oh my gosh, like, thanks so much for listening

00:47:03.780 and being blab about stuff that you probably do not agree with.

00:47:07.040 What's your thoughts?

00:47:07.880 And then you just go from there.

00:47:09.300 So, I mean, like, easier said than done.

00:47:11.220 I'm like, I'm just going to say that right now,

00:47:13.440 but that would be my two cents.

00:47:15.200 Well, it's very context dependent.

00:47:17.060 Like, you and I have done what James is alluding to

00:47:21.200 and figuring out the actual questions, you know,

00:47:24.280 because Canadian identity, if we want to go down the real rabbit hole,

00:47:28.840 I'm discarding that instantly.

00:47:31.400 I think it's utter nonsense.

00:47:34.440 But to talk to people,

00:47:36.520 there's a reason why there's different things of messaging.

00:47:38.880 And the reason why our family takes to the brain so much

00:47:41.120 is because when you're looking at an individual,

00:47:43.460 there's always three things you have to consider

00:47:45.420 when you're talking to them.

00:47:46.740 One is their hemisphere proclivity. 0.97

00:47:48.720 Are they a bit more left or right hemisphere proclivity?

00:47:50.720 Everyone has one.

00:47:52.000 It's good to know about yourself.

00:47:53.380 That way you can figure out,

00:47:54.540 okay, am I going to react first in a negative

00:47:57.620 or am I a bit more absence of no?

00:48:00.260 So there's that.

00:48:01.660 There's your gender because male-female dynamic, 1.00

00:48:04.100 different hormones,

00:48:04.940 definitely going to change how you approach it.

00:48:07.060 And then the third way is age

00:48:08.300 because depending on how much experience you had in life

00:48:10.880 will also depend on, dictate how your reaction is.

00:48:15.580 And the message for independence and what is Canada?

00:48:19.580 Honestly, talking to as many,

00:48:21.320 when I do see a young woman

00:48:23.760 at these Alberta independence events,

00:48:26.460 I hope, praise Jesus,

00:48:28.440 how, what, where, when, why?

00:48:30.960 And so me and Macy actually connected with a couple

00:48:33.200 and we're going to interview, do some shorts,

00:48:35.080 figure out what got this young lady here

00:48:38.700 because that's not common.

00:48:41.300 It's much easier, I find,

00:48:43.220 for the young man to jump onto the independence board

00:48:45.480 because, you know, gun rights,

00:48:47.980 private property, stuff like that,

00:48:50.520 very simple things you can get on board with.

00:48:54.440 But for women, and then young women,

00:48:57.580 but even women generally,

00:48:59.820 the Canadian identity thing

00:49:01.760 or the gun rights

00:49:02.940 know the statistics about

00:49:05.760 where Canada has been

00:49:08.760 and the historical figures

00:49:10.140 being politically involved,

00:49:11.900 what the politics have really shown,

00:49:13.400 they could care less.

00:49:14.640 But talking about their grandchildren

00:49:16.440 and how that's affecting them

00:49:17.880 or maybe the tuition

00:49:19.320 that you've been saving up

00:49:21.320 that still isn't going to go

00:49:22.820 half as far as you want it to,

00:49:25.840 messaging really does matter.

00:49:27.660 So even though

00:49:28.440 people like us have been spending

00:49:31.300 the last couple of years

00:49:32.280 doing hours upon hours of research

00:49:34.480 and we could go down

00:49:37.200 all the rabbit holes

00:49:38.380 that people seemingly

00:49:40.240 don't want to go down.

00:49:42.760 Everybody is at a different stage

00:49:44.860 and that's not to say

00:49:46.320 whether they're right or wrong.

00:49:48.640 It's like they,

00:49:49.480 everybody should have the information.

00:49:51.380 I'm not going to say

00:49:52.180 that they shouldn't go get the answers.

00:49:54.120 There are answers out there.

00:49:55.680 There still is a truth.

00:49:57.100 There still is historical context.

00:49:59.480 Go find it.

00:50:00.160 But some people have their own priorities

00:50:03.320 depending on where they are in their life.

00:50:05.620 The best thing you can do

00:50:06.700 is just meet them where they're at

00:50:07.960 because that's all

00:50:09.580 they're going to give you anyway.

00:50:11.200 If you're going to try

00:50:12.220 and get something more,

00:50:13.560 give them something

00:50:14.120 they're not asking for,

00:50:15.820 it's like, well,

00:50:16.400 you're not going to get very far.

00:50:18.720 So even though I agree with

00:50:20.700 figuring out what actually is Canada,

00:50:24.440 there are answers out there.

00:50:26.380 Not everybody is ready

00:50:27.940 and you don't get to pick

00:50:29.680 when people are ready.

00:50:30.540 That's why context is so important

00:50:33.220 because the way you're going to get to a woman

00:50:36.100 is not the same way

00:50:37.180 you're going to get to a man

00:50:38.280 and then a young person.

00:50:39.600 And so all of this is stuff

00:50:41.440 you have to consider.

00:50:42.240 You have to treat everybody

00:50:43.220 as an individual

00:50:44.020 by individual basis

00:50:45.520 because, well,

00:50:47.120 we're individuals

00:50:47.880 and we each have our own 1.00

00:50:49.140 stupid matrix 1.00

00:50:50.780 about how our brains click. 1.00

00:50:53.720 Yeah, that's really true.

00:50:54.760 And that's something

00:50:56.700 that I think

00:50:57.300 that our modern context

00:50:58.780 has sort of removed from.

00:51:00.800 People don't really default

00:51:01.960 to that anymore

00:51:02.600 because so much

00:51:03.280 of our interaction,

00:51:04.160 our social interaction

00:51:05.460 is online-based now.

00:51:07.500 And it's much easier

00:51:08.780 to be very short

00:51:10.020 and kind of mean

00:51:11.900 and swear at people

00:51:13.480 and call people names

00:51:15.240 through a screen

00:51:16.360 thinking you may never meet them

00:51:18.240 so you can kind of let these

00:51:19.660 baser emotions out.

00:51:21.540 And of course,

00:51:22.280 obviously we're guilty of it too.

00:51:23.600 Like everyone's guilty of it.

00:51:25.140 The way that you would

00:51:26.280 you talk to people

00:51:27.060 you don't know,

00:51:27.580 strangers online is like,

00:51:28.980 oh, we would all be horrified

00:51:30.700 to do that in person

00:51:31.500 to anyone, you know?

00:51:33.820 That or you present yourself

00:51:35.180 as way cooler

00:51:35.860 than you actually are.

00:51:37.120 Yeah, yeah.

00:51:37.980 That's way easier to hide too.

00:51:39.560 Yeah.

00:51:41.520 But, you know,

00:51:42.180 so yeah,

00:51:42.940 it is sort of a,

00:51:44.820 I guess it's sort of a dance.

00:51:46.140 It's sort of a nuance.

00:51:50.100 You know,

00:51:50.200 it involves a level

00:51:52.220 of social acumen

00:51:53.240 that not everyone has

00:51:54.280 and you see that

00:51:55.440 very clearly

00:51:55.980 in a lot of,

00:51:57.720 you know,

00:51:58.000 now,

00:51:58.780 you know,

00:51:59.000 maybe in the last,

00:51:59.840 you know,

00:52:00.100 five, six years,

00:52:00.960 there's a lot more

00:52:02.340 leftist protests

00:52:03.420 than there are

00:52:04.180 right-wing protests

00:52:05.440 just, you know,

00:52:06.120 because of how the culture

00:52:07.320 is right now,

00:52:07.920 what the cultural zeitgeist is.

00:52:09.640 But you see a lot of these,

00:52:12.100 a lot of sloganeering,

00:52:13.380 a lot of chanting,

00:52:14.280 a lot of,

00:52:15.060 you know,

00:52:15.340 three-word repeatable phrases

00:52:17.080 and these types of things

00:52:18.420 that really eliminate nuance

00:52:20.740 from the discussion.

00:52:21.640 And what you guys are talking about

00:52:22.540 is so important

00:52:23.300 because that is truly the only way,

00:52:27.100 like if you're approaching somebody

00:52:28.840 who thinks that

00:52:30.800 in order to be an Alberta separatist, 0.88

00:52:32.800 not only do you have to be a traitor

00:52:34.220 and you have to be committing treason 0.76

00:52:35.840 and you have to be a far-right extremist

00:52:37.420 and you have to be a Trump,

00:52:38.420 like all these layers of like,

00:52:40.740 hold, hold on,

00:52:41.600 like let's,

00:52:42.280 you know,

00:52:42.620 pump the brakes here.

00:52:43.340 This is actually a very,

00:52:45.060 like let me explain

00:52:46.500 why your life will be better

00:52:48.360 if I get my way.

00:52:49.860 You know,

00:52:50.000 like that's hard to,

00:52:51.720 and part of the reason

00:52:54.000 why it's so hard

00:52:54.620 is because people,

00:52:55.700 I was talking to James

00:52:57.040 about this the other day

00:52:57.680 and I'm curious

00:52:58.180 what your thoughts are.

00:52:59.640 Something that I've noticed

00:53:00.760 in a lot of debates,

00:53:01.780 specifically online

00:53:02.820 with younger people

00:53:04.320 is that

00:53:06.220 people are so afraid

00:53:08.600 to give even an inch

00:53:10.280 in any sort of debate interaction,

00:53:13.020 like if somebody's trying

00:53:14.100 to apply the Socratic method

00:53:15.360 to them,

00:53:15.760 like what,

00:53:16.180 do you think this

00:53:16.880 or do you think this is true?

00:53:19.140 They can kind of tell

00:53:20.500 where the questioning

00:53:21.380 is going to start going

00:53:22.440 and so they shut it down immediately

00:53:24.280 and they pretend

00:53:24.960 they don't understand

00:53:25.640 what words are

00:53:26.360 because they know

00:53:27.340 that if they allow themselves

00:53:29.140 to go down this road

00:53:30.340 of Socratic questioning,

00:53:32.200 their pretty flimsily held idea

00:53:35.240 is going to be exposed.

00:53:36.940 And so I'm curious

00:53:38.380 if you sort of encounter that

00:53:40.380 in your discussions

00:53:41.100 of people who just sort of

00:53:42.200 either pretend to not know

00:53:43.820 what you're talking about

00:53:44.680 or they're just so resistant

00:53:46.960 to the idea

00:53:47.600 of having their minds changed

00:53:49.080 that they sort of

00:53:49.900 sort of force themselves

00:53:51.460 into an intellectual position

00:53:52.860 that is very rigid.

00:53:56.600 Is that too much of a question?

00:53:59.260 No, no, just thinking.

00:54:02.820 Maddie, do you want

00:54:03.560 to go first with that?

00:54:05.140 Well, I can.

00:54:05.820 It's funny because we've recently started

00:54:10.660 going over all the Socratic 0.83

00:54:12.340 and Platonic dialogues

00:54:13.980 and we've heard

00:54:17.300 and they're absolutely worth the read

00:54:20.140 but it's funny,

00:54:21.240 we've talked in my household

00:54:22.440 about the effectiveness of them

00:54:25.400 and because you can get the people,

00:54:29.340 there are some people

00:54:30.100 where you can start using

00:54:30.960 the Socratic dialogue

00:54:32.040 and it's completely over their head.

00:54:34.860 You know, you're asking this,

00:54:35.920 you ask one leading question

00:54:37.340 and they go on

00:54:38.700 and go on and go on

00:54:39.820 and the reality is,

00:54:40.820 you know, they don't,

00:54:41.880 I mean, you could ask them

00:54:42.720 a million really deep questions

00:54:44.340 and they'll give you answers

00:54:45.720 that they think are deep back

00:54:46.960 and it really,

00:54:47.660 it's going nowhere.

00:54:48.740 I've had that.

00:54:49.200 Oh my God.

00:54:50.440 We've had those

00:54:51.320 where you think you're going somewhere

00:54:52.600 because they give you this answer,

00:54:54.260 they just take every question

00:54:55.440 you want to give them,

00:54:56.200 it sounds like they're being open-minded.

00:54:58.060 Meanwhile,

00:54:58.460 no conclusion comes from that.

00:55:01.520 Yeah, it's just words.

00:55:02.460 Absolutely just words.

00:55:04.700 We've also had that scenario

00:55:08.140 where people can,

00:55:11.180 and this is why scripts,

00:55:12.500 and again, nuance is so important

00:55:14.200 because the Socratic dialogue

00:55:16.000 can still be treated as a script.

00:55:17.740 It's still a formula

00:55:18.660 on how to talk to somebody.

00:55:20.580 And so, although I value questions

00:55:22.780 and questions are a great way

00:55:24.340 to get people thinking,

00:55:25.560 if you already have the answer

00:55:29.140 in your brain 0.99

00:55:29.920 and you're ready to hit them 1.00

00:55:31.140 over the head with it, 0.99

00:55:32.220 people can feel that, okay?

00:55:34.240 Like, we can, we resonate.

00:55:37.420 You know, there is a real truth

00:55:39.100 to people emitting frequencies,

00:55:41.260 not in the sense of the crystals

00:55:43.180 and the stars are going to tell me

00:55:44.340 what my fate is and all that jazz,

00:55:46.280 but there is a real resonance to truth.

00:55:48.360 That's why people say,

00:55:49.420 oh, it's the ring of truth.

00:55:50.660 There's something we literally

00:55:51.820 do resonate with,

00:55:52.840 and when you are being inauthentic,

00:55:54.680 someone will feel it.

00:55:55.880 So if you're doing a leading question

00:55:58.580 and you're trying to lead them somewhere,

00:56:03.260 some people are skeptical enough

00:56:05.840 and paranoid enough,

00:56:06.700 they're going to be like, 1.00

00:56:07.460 you bastard, 1.00

00:56:08.700 and then they won't want 1.00

00:56:09.460 to go there with you.

00:56:10.640 So sometimes,

00:56:11.960 still get the knowledge,

00:56:13.760 do all that jazz,

00:56:15.660 but it's not always a matter

00:56:17.060 of trying to do a script.

00:56:19.040 And because people,

00:56:22.280 that's the thing

00:56:23.360 that's also hard about online

00:56:24.740 is that you can type

00:56:26.980 and backspace as much as you want

00:56:28.420 until it's perfect.

00:56:30.160 Conversations do not go that way.

00:56:32.940 And that's the one thing,

00:56:33.700 even about Socratic dialogues,

00:56:35.420 I appreciate the wisdom

00:56:37.220 about the questions

00:56:38.260 and getting the paradoxes

00:56:40.020 because the reality is

00:56:41.100 truth is largely a paradox

00:56:42.760 and there's contradictions

00:56:44.020 and hypocrisy

00:56:45.080 in almost every individual.

00:56:47.140 but they don't play out that way.

00:56:51.860 And more,

00:56:52.160 if you even read them,

00:56:53.240 looking at the Socratic dialogues,

00:56:54.720 the pushback that Socrates gets,

00:56:56.920 it's very conformed

00:56:58.560 and very appropriate.

00:56:59.500 But when you're in a real conversation,

00:57:01.600 there's like,

00:57:02.060 even between me and Macy,

00:57:03.300 it's like,

00:57:03.560 wait, wait,

00:57:03.820 I'm going to interrupt you.

00:57:04.680 Excuse me.

00:57:05.200 It's like,

00:57:05.500 there's no interruptions

00:57:06.880 in Socratic dialogues.

00:57:08.220 I know, we haven't been

00:57:08.620 interrupting her that much

00:57:09.740 because of being polite,

00:57:10.540 but in our household,

00:57:11.660 oh my gosh,

00:57:12.280 we can't stop interrupting.

00:57:13.580 And when you're in a disagreement

00:57:16.740 with somebody,

00:57:17.740 somebody's going to go,

00:57:18.480 hold on,

00:57:19.320 wait a minute.

00:57:19.960 And so it's like,

00:57:20.920 in the Socratic dialogues,

00:57:22.220 there's literally just characters

00:57:23.560 dedicated to just answering

00:57:25.100 Socrates' yes and no.

00:57:26.520 And you're reading it kind of going like,

00:57:28.000 people don't talk like that

00:57:28.740 in real life,

00:57:29.300 like at all,

00:57:30.280 ever,

00:57:30.720 because most of the time

00:57:31.720 everybody has something

00:57:32.720 that they want to contribute

00:57:33.580 because they think

00:57:34.140 they know something,

00:57:35.180 which I mean,

00:57:35.600 fair enough,

00:57:35.940 you might.

00:57:36.340 And so they go ahead

00:57:37.480 and they spout off whatever.

00:57:39.800 And so like,

00:57:40.260 sometimes I'm reading Socrates,

00:57:41.320 I'm like,

00:57:42.000 he's got himself

00:57:42.720 like a cute little vacuum

00:57:43.840 going on here.

00:57:44.820 And I'm like,

00:57:45.220 that's conversations

00:57:45.880 are not a vacuum.

00:57:46.780 I don't know.

00:57:47.960 But a good takeaway

00:57:48.840 to take away from that

00:57:49.960 and an act of good skill

00:57:51.480 is from the Socratic dialogues,

00:57:54.260 maybe you can't do

00:57:55.360 leading questions

00:57:56.060 and it's a bit hard for you.

00:57:58.600 Reiterating what somebody says.

00:58:00.460 So if somebody tries

00:58:01.120 to explain their thought process

00:58:02.300 to you,

00:58:03.920 verbally say,

00:58:05.020 okay,

00:58:05.300 if I'm hearing you right,

00:58:06.280 you're saying,

00:58:07.000 and then reiterate it

00:58:08.060 in your own words.

00:58:09.560 That's very powerful.

00:58:10.180 And if you've,

00:58:10.900 if you've misrepresented

00:58:12.460 some form

00:58:13.260 or you got it,

00:58:14.340 I mean,

00:58:14.560 all of those clarifications

00:58:16.220 that also forces a person

00:58:19.120 to hone in

00:58:20.940 and concise their thoughts

00:58:22.620 because now you are trying

00:58:24.220 to pinpoint it.

00:58:25.260 So it is a bit

00:58:26.200 of a left hemisphere

00:58:26.960 sort of thing,

00:58:27.640 but you know,

00:58:28.060 there's usefulness to that

00:58:29.280 to go,

00:58:30.020 okay,

00:58:30.560 is this what you mean?

00:58:31.860 Is this what,

00:58:32.640 hence Macy earlier, 0.93

00:58:33.780 she alluded to,

00:58:34.480 some people want

00:58:35.200 the better deal.

00:58:37.140 So by better deal,

00:58:38.360 do you mean you want

00:58:39.180 Alberta to be equal?

00:58:40.840 Yeah,

00:58:41.280 I want people,

00:58:42.020 I want Alberta 0.86

00:58:42.820 to be equal.

00:58:43.980 Okay,

00:58:44.600 do you know

00:58:45.880 what it would take

00:58:46.580 in order for us

00:58:47.340 to get the same

00:58:48.420 equal immigration plan

00:58:50.720 as Quebec?

00:58:51.400 Do you actually know

00:58:52.080 what the steps are

00:58:53.760 to get that?

00:58:54.580 Like,

00:58:54.960 assume that being equal

00:58:56.160 is a great intention.

00:58:57.340 Just assume their intentions

00:58:58.420 are absolutely pure gold.

00:59:00.420 Okay,

00:59:00.680 how do you think

00:59:01.220 we get there?

00:59:02.480 Then it's like,

00:59:03.660 oh,

00:59:03.900 well,

00:59:04.020 we could do this.

00:59:04.720 It's like,

00:59:05.340 okay,

00:59:05.580 but did you know

00:59:06.200 that we have to do that?

00:59:07.680 Then things kind of

00:59:09.100 go further from there.

00:59:10.080 So it's like,

00:59:10.640 you're asking them

00:59:11.820 to tell you

00:59:12.500 rather than you telling them

00:59:13.900 and it resonates differently.

00:59:17.340 I have like my two cents

00:59:18.800 to add on to that.

00:59:20.200 Because I've,

00:59:21.180 so sometimes the way

00:59:22.700 my brain works

00:59:23.460 is I think I was saying it

00:59:24.740 before we pressed record

00:59:25.980 where sometimes

00:59:26.500 I can make someone's argument

00:59:27.880 better than them

00:59:29.320 even making it towards me.

00:59:30.900 Like I can go like,

00:59:31.560 oh,

00:59:31.680 I could have stomped on myself

00:59:32.960 way better than that.

00:59:33.940 And so I feel like

00:59:36.020 when I'm doing that,

00:59:38.860 I'm putting in thought

00:59:40.340 as to like,

00:59:41.060 I'm genuinely trying

00:59:42.000 to understand this person

00:59:43.420 as if I was them.

00:59:45.020 So if there's someone

00:59:46.180 that's like,

00:59:46.720 why,

00:59:47.040 why,

00:59:47.560 if they say

00:59:48.160 Alberta independence

00:59:49.140 seems very drastic,

00:59:50.660 it seems very extreme,

00:59:52.180 is there no other way

00:59:53.160 that we could have

00:59:53.840 done this before

00:59:54.840 jumping the gun

00:59:55.680 into that?

00:59:56.200 And I literally will think,

00:59:57.220 is there no other way

00:59:57.980 we could have done this?

00:59:58.580 And so then

00:59:58.920 I was like,

01:00:00.020 hmm,

01:00:00.340 could we have not,

01:00:01.360 you know,

01:00:01.700 done some sort of

01:00:03.080 referendum

01:00:04.380 on changing

01:00:05.500 the formula

01:00:07.040 for the seats,

01:00:07.980 right?

01:00:08.240 So representation reform.

01:00:10.760 Could we have not done that?

01:00:11.740 And that was just an idea

01:00:12.880 that like came in my head.

01:00:14.120 And then I was thinking,

01:00:15.120 okay,

01:00:15.500 so I'm going to start

01:00:16.260 doing some research

01:00:17.160 as to if that's actually possible.

01:00:19.120 I found out it's not,

01:00:20.220 it's not because of the,

01:00:22.180 of the same formula

01:00:23.180 of you would need

01:00:24.260 like 50% representation

01:00:25.660 by all the provinces

01:00:26.600 and the majority

01:00:28.480 in the Senate.

01:00:28.960 And we already know

01:00:29.840 the mechanisms of,

01:00:30.940 well,

01:00:30.980 that's just not possible.

01:00:32.160 And it would take

01:00:33.020 a lot of work.

01:00:34.320 And so,

01:00:35.460 because it has to do,

01:00:36.220 anything that has to do

01:00:36.860 with constitutional amendment,

01:00:37.980 right?

01:00:39.200 So,

01:00:39.960 okay,

01:00:40.260 I was like,

01:00:40.680 okay,

01:00:40.900 so that doesn't work.

01:00:41.820 So I'm,

01:00:42.820 I actually am

01:00:43.760 when I'm faced

01:00:45.280 with arguments

01:00:46.040 from people

01:00:47.020 trying to genuinely

01:00:47.920 give them what I can

01:00:49.040 based on like

01:00:51.340 what I don't know.

01:00:52.080 So sometimes if I'm like,

01:00:53.080 oh,

01:00:53.160 I actually don't know,

01:00:54.220 maybe it's like,

01:00:55.520 well,

01:00:55.900 could you get back

01:00:56.600 to them then?

01:00:57.360 You know,

01:00:58.020 sometimes we don't put

01:00:59.320 in that work

01:01:00.080 to actually consider

01:01:01.000 what they're asking.

01:01:02.960 And so it's like,

01:01:03.820 okay,

01:01:04.060 well,

01:01:04.240 I will go find out.

01:01:05.420 I'll get back to you

01:01:06.360 or I'll get back to myself

01:01:07.640 and I'll let,

01:01:09.480 like,

01:01:09.800 now I know.

01:01:10.700 And so if we meet

01:01:11.620 each other again,

01:01:12.280 then we can have

01:01:12.780 a conversation maybe,

01:01:13.820 right?

01:01:15.140 And I feel like

01:01:16.140 with,

01:01:16.740 I guess,

01:01:17.820 the Socratic dialogue

01:01:19.920 and all of that,

01:01:21.500 Maddie's not wrong,

01:01:22.220 repeating what it is

01:01:23.220 that they said

01:01:23.880 is a good method

01:01:24.940 as well.

01:01:25.960 I mean,

01:01:26.420 I feel like

01:01:27.140 it depends on the person.

01:01:28.800 Like what Maddie's saying

01:01:29.620 is like nuance

01:01:30.280 is kind of like the theme

01:01:31.420 on that

01:01:32.780 because even

01:01:33.660 I could be with someone

01:01:35.480 for a long time

01:01:36.560 and I could know

01:01:37.220 that they're the type

01:01:38.040 of person

01:01:38.460 where what really gets them

01:01:40.500 is when you talk

01:01:41.640 about your own experience

01:01:42.960 because they talk

01:01:43.900 about theirs.

01:01:44.660 So you'll see that,

01:01:46.080 oh,

01:01:46.160 a person's telling them

01:01:47.660 a sort of truth,

01:01:49.140 a generalization

01:01:49.900 about life

01:01:50.420 that they've come to

01:01:51.120 based on their experience

01:01:52.380 in this sort of field

01:01:54.180 of career

01:01:54.860 or whatever.

01:01:55.980 And so I find that

01:01:57.100 if I repeat

01:01:57.740 what they're doing

01:01:58.660 and I use my own experience

01:02:01.160 to try and convey

01:02:02.040 my narrative,

01:02:03.060 then they might be

01:02:03.740 attracted to it

01:02:04.540 because it's exactly

01:02:05.180 how they convey truth

01:02:06.180 and exactly how

01:02:06.920 they convey understanding.

01:02:08.520 And so,

01:02:08.980 and that takes work too.

01:02:10.180 Like,

01:02:10.340 oh my gosh,

01:02:10.760 you have to spend

01:02:11.340 a lot of time

01:02:11.820 with people

01:02:12.200 in order to figure out

01:02:12.920 that sort of mechanism.

01:02:14.780 And so it is a lot

01:02:15.760 of formalization

01:02:16.880 and other times

01:02:17.620 I've just found

01:02:18.320 that it depends.

01:02:19.580 Like if I'm,

01:02:20.740 if you're closer

01:02:21.240 to this individual,

01:02:21.980 you might be able

01:02:22.660 to say,

01:02:23.020 hey,

01:02:23.780 and I've done this before

01:02:24.720 where I'm like,

01:02:25.800 I don't want to have

01:02:26.340 to Socratic dialogue you

01:02:27.580 in order to try

01:02:28.180 and get through to you.

01:02:29.000 And I've literally

01:02:29.400 had to say that

01:02:30.060 and instantly they're just,

01:02:31.500 they drop and they're like,

01:02:33.280 oh,

01:02:33.760 you had,

01:02:34.800 you were thinking

01:02:35.220 you had to,

01:02:36.100 right?

01:02:36.300 And so I,

01:02:37.260 and then sometimes

01:02:38.640 if they are conscientious,

01:02:40.220 like,

01:02:40.380 man,

01:02:40.520 I kind of feel bad

01:02:41.180 that you thought

01:02:41.580 you would have had

01:02:42.120 to even do that

01:02:43.320 because I thought

01:02:43.720 I was a safe person

01:02:44.700 where you could just

01:02:45.380 talk to straight up,

01:02:46.560 straightforwardly

01:02:47.160 without having to maneuver

01:02:48.740 or dance around me.

01:02:50.280 And so I'm like,

01:02:50.700 yeah,

01:02:50.800 I don't want to dance

01:02:51.600 around you.

01:02:52.080 I want to tell you

01:02:52.720 straight up how I feel.

01:02:54.120 And so then they're like

01:02:54.820 more receptive that way.

01:02:56.360 And so I just,

01:02:57.400 Maddie's not wrong. 0.70

01:02:58.200 Authenticity,

01:02:58.700 I think is the best way.

01:02:59.800 Sometimes just keeping it honest

01:03:01.680 to what you do want to do,

01:03:03.080 what you don't want to do.

01:03:03.640 And I think more like

01:03:05.200 what you can't do,

01:03:06.340 like,

01:03:06.560 because there might be

01:03:07.160 a part of you that's like,

01:03:08.100 I don't know

01:03:09.360 what the best way

01:03:10.640 of phrasing this is.

01:03:12.360 I don't know

01:03:12.680 what the best approach is

01:03:13.880 to try and convey this message,

01:03:15.620 but this is what I think.

01:03:17.300 And then what do you think?

01:03:19.460 Because sorry,

01:03:20.180 I couldn't word it nicer.

01:03:21.280 Sorry,

01:03:21.460 I couldn't make you feel safer.

01:03:23.020 Like,

01:03:23.260 all of these things,

01:03:24.940 I, 0.99

01:03:25.660 it sucks, 0.98

01:03:26.360 but here's what I got for you. 0.98

01:03:28.460 And then you just save

01:03:29.480 the receptive to it.

01:03:31.440 Of course.

01:03:31.920 And, you know,

01:03:32.380 I'll let,

01:03:32.760 I'll let James jump in here.

01:03:33.640 Because I've talked a lot,

01:03:35.400 but I think that that's

01:03:37.580 what you said is so important

01:03:39.580 in order,

01:03:40.460 like,

01:03:40.920 in order for people

01:03:41.620 to feel comfortable with you,

01:03:43.800 you,

01:03:44.420 they have to believe

01:03:45.400 that you understand

01:03:46.280 where they're coming from.

01:03:47.680 And even if you don't agree

01:03:48.960 where they're coming from,

01:03:49.780 but if they feel

01:03:50.580 that you get them,

01:03:52.480 then a lot of guard drops.

01:03:54.000 And I think,

01:03:54.600 yes,

01:03:54.900 probably the best

01:03:56.120 Socratic methoding,

01:03:57.640 methoding?

01:03:58.500 The best,

01:03:59.300 when you,

01:04:00.300 when somebody applies

01:04:01.320 the Socratic method

01:04:02.520 in the best way,

01:04:03.880 that is what they're doing,

01:04:05.300 is they're,

01:04:05.700 is they're trying to drill down,

01:04:07.120 why do you think that?

01:04:08.300 Okay,

01:04:08.480 this is the answer you gave me.

01:04:09.840 What led you to that conclusion?

01:04:11.420 How did you get here?

01:04:12.800 What aspect of your life

01:04:14.060 made you believe

01:04:14.820 that this is how

01:04:16.260 X and Y should interact?

01:04:17.980 And I think it's also important

01:04:21.140 with all the understanding

01:04:22.740 and listening

01:04:23.220 that we have to be doing,

01:04:25.580 it's,

01:04:25.860 I mean,

01:04:26.280 what do you think

01:04:26.840 the odds are

01:04:27.400 that the average

01:04:28.720 Forever Canada person

01:04:30.080 who's slandering you guys online,

01:04:32.540 what do you think

01:04:33.140 the odds are

01:04:33.580 that they could accurately

01:04:35.140 represent your concerns

01:04:37.040 and reiterate them back to you

01:04:39.200 in a way that you would accept?

01:04:40.720 So that is a big problem.

01:04:41.780 And that's what we tried to do

01:04:42.980 when we interviewed

01:04:44.520 that Forever Canada guy

01:04:46.660 that was outside

01:04:47.260 of the Calgary event.

01:04:48.240 You know,

01:04:48.420 we,

01:04:48.680 I tried to sort of say like,

01:04:51.260 the people who are in line

01:04:53.360 to sign this petition,

01:04:54.740 do you believe

01:04:55.520 that they have

01:04:56.200 any valid reasons

01:04:57.360 for why they're here?

01:04:58.080 And he actually said,

01:04:58.920 to his credit,

01:04:59.620 he said,

01:04:59.920 yeah,

01:05:00.160 you know,

01:05:00.400 I believe there's,

01:05:01.120 there's some economic concerns

01:05:02.740 that are valid.

01:05:03.400 And it's like,

01:05:03.840 yeah,

01:05:04.000 okay,

01:05:04.360 that's a great start.

01:05:05.460 Like,

01:05:06.080 I didn't really dive into that

01:05:07.860 if we had more time

01:05:08.620 and if it wasn't so cold,

01:05:09.540 I probably would have.

01:05:11.540 But,

01:05:11.980 you know,

01:05:12.120 that's,

01:05:12.400 that's a great point

01:05:13.060 is if you can get somebody

01:05:14.240 just to concede a little,

01:05:15.700 like an inch,

01:05:16.600 just a little bit,

01:05:17.440 like that's your in,

01:05:18.380 you know,

01:05:18.580 if you,

01:05:18.940 you concede to them,

01:05:20.440 they concede to you

01:05:21.340 and then you find that,

01:05:23.000 you know,

01:05:23.220 we talk in the show a lot

01:05:24.120 about horseshoe theory

01:05:25.000 for politics,

01:05:25.800 you know,

01:05:26.020 where the far right,

01:05:27.900 rather than politics

01:05:28.800 being on a line,

01:05:30.140 being more of a horseshoe shape

01:05:31.520 and the furthest right

01:05:32.740 and the furthest left

01:05:33.500 tending to resemble each other

01:05:35.100 more than they represent

01:05:36.780 the vast majority of people,

01:05:39.100 you'll find that some,

01:05:40.020 sometimes the people

01:05:40.720 who seem the most adamant

01:05:43.380 and the most violent

01:05:44.740 in their rhetoric,

01:05:45.580 actually,

01:05:46.000 like when you get down

01:05:47.100 to why they think

01:05:48.140 they're there,

01:05:48.780 what they think they're doing,

01:05:50.700 their concerns are probably

01:05:51.940 the same as yours,

01:05:52.860 you know,

01:05:53.480 they're just expressed

01:05:54.160 a little differently.

01:05:54.800 Anyway,

01:05:55.500 James,

01:05:55.780 you go ahead

01:05:56.120 if you had another question.

01:05:56.900 Well,

01:05:57.240 there's,

01:05:57.580 there's a layer to that

01:05:58.640 of,

01:05:59.020 I think you're describing

01:06:00.540 like the Socratic method

01:06:02.560 failing when somebody's

01:06:04.120 using it to win

01:06:05.220 rather than to get

01:06:06.920 a better shared understanding.

01:06:08.720 So if you're,

01:06:09.120 if you're weaponizing it,

01:06:10.560 then yeah,

01:06:11.480 people are going

01:06:12.020 to recognize that.

01:06:14.460 It also depends

01:06:15.560 if it's,

01:06:16.040 if it's one-on-one

01:06:17.100 versus if there's

01:06:18.380 people there listening,

01:06:20.560 that's a different dynamic

01:06:21.680 because again,

01:06:23.500 if you're not,

01:06:24.280 you're not trying to win,

01:06:25.960 if you're,

01:06:26.680 if you treat it purely

01:06:27.740 as an intellectual exercise

01:06:29.200 of trying to find out

01:06:30.340 if the reasons

01:06:31.440 for believing something

01:06:32.540 match up

01:06:33.160 with their actual evidence

01:06:34.340 or what their thought

01:06:36.400 process is,

01:06:37.440 is the one person

01:06:38.940 that you're asking

01:06:39.800 those questions to

01:06:40.780 their logic may fall apart

01:06:42.780 and they not,

01:06:43.660 they might not be happy.

01:06:44.920 They might be

01:06:45.440 a little bit agitated,

01:06:46.440 but the people listening

01:06:49.340 or the ones

01:06:51.240 that are watching later,

01:06:52.520 et cetera,

01:06:53.420 those are the ones

01:06:54.440 you might actually

01:06:55.760 have the most impact on

01:06:57.060 because you're seeing

01:06:58.000 somebody's,

01:06:59.460 maybe somebody has like these,

01:07:01.620 their emotional investment

01:07:02.960 in that position

01:07:04.840 doesn't actually match up

01:07:06.060 with any of the reasons

01:07:07.180 that they have.

01:07:08.560 So it's like a house of cards.

01:07:10.560 It's crumbling down.

01:07:12.980 So I feel like the awareness

01:07:15.240 to know which battles,

01:07:17.760 like you're picking your battles.

01:07:19.060 You're not trying to win everything.

01:07:20.680 You're planting the seeds.

01:07:22.680 Maybe that person

01:07:23.680 goes back home

01:07:24.840 and they're frustrated.

01:07:25.780 It's two months later

01:07:26.740 and maybe they've shifted

01:07:28.580 their views

01:07:29.300 on a couple of those things.

01:07:31.440 Probably not going to do that

01:07:32.680 instantly the day of.

01:07:34.640 Like how many times

01:07:35.800 have you done a 180

01:07:37.600 on a single subject

01:07:39.560 all in one day?

01:07:40.920 Like these are,

01:07:41.820 these are shifts.

01:07:43.240 They,

01:07:43.720 they are incremental.

01:07:45.940 It takes work.

01:07:47.900 And so I'm going to let you in.

01:07:50.400 I don't know if you know this

01:07:51.440 about Mike and I,

01:07:52.120 we are recovering,

01:07:54.080 former recovering leftists,

01:07:55.920 more,

01:07:56.200 not like left leaning.

01:07:57.380 We were both in the,

01:07:58.540 both in the arts.

01:07:59.420 Sorry, Mike's just like,

01:08:00.480 yeah, we were.

01:08:02.620 We were,

01:08:03.180 we were liberal musicians

01:08:04.440 from the city.

01:08:05.860 Oh,

01:08:06.120 I didn't know that actually.

01:08:08.440 So we,

01:08:09.140 sorry to interrupt.

01:08:09.600 Keep going, James.

01:08:11.220 No,

01:08:11.740 that,

01:08:11.920 that adds to the,

01:08:13.000 that means I'm not just joking.

01:08:15.440 I'm not making this part up.

01:08:16.600 So yeah,

01:08:16.900 no,

01:08:17.340 but to go from that

01:08:20.480 and being surrounded by people

01:08:22.060 that believe in a certain way

01:08:23.960 and also for,

01:08:26.820 for myself,

01:08:27.680 politics was something

01:08:28.940 I didn't engage with that deeply.

01:08:32.160 And I had ideas about the world

01:08:34.100 and I thought like,

01:08:35.300 oh yeah, 0.93

01:08:35.660 conservatives are kind of greedy and bad. 0.98

01:08:37.400 And like, 0.60

01:08:38.340 maybe we should have more social programs.

01:08:40.600 We just dump more money.

01:08:41.540 Like I had,

01:08:42.740 at one point,

01:08:43.640 I did have surface level views on things

01:08:46.980 because I didn't go as far deep.

01:08:49.360 And I feel like now I can look at somebody else

01:08:52.740 that has those views

01:08:53.580 and I don't treat them with the same, 1.00

01:08:56.480 I don't think of them as like a dumb idiot 1.00

01:08:58.540 that like is beyond hope 1.00

01:09:00.400 that like,

01:09:01.880 I'm not gonna just demonize them for that.

01:09:06.220 Like I do see the potential

01:09:07.840 in a lot of these people.

01:09:09.900 So I'm hoping that these conversations,

01:09:12.380 they plant some of the seeds

01:09:13.560 or the people witnessing,

01:09:15.940 they're seeing these things unfold

01:09:17.400 and it's those people that you're convincing.

01:09:19.920 So it is a,

01:09:21.400 we are playing the long game.

01:09:22.820 Though maybe when it comes to September,

01:09:26.600 we can't play the long game in September,

01:09:28.540 but for now we can play the long game.

01:09:33.100 Well, I mean,

01:09:33.820 even like,

01:09:34.420 I like how you're saying that

01:09:35.460 sometimes it's the audience that's watching.

01:09:38.200 And it was funny,

01:09:39.120 our mom was doing her Facebook battling online.

01:09:43.640 And that's kind of the funny part too,

01:09:45.800 is when people don't feel like

01:09:47.660 they have much of an emotional attachment to it.

01:09:50.440 So they're kind of just an observer

01:09:51.580 and they're like,

01:09:52.140 yeah, what's going on?

01:09:52.860 And they're reading the comments

01:09:54.380 and they see some of the perspectives being presented.

01:09:57.420 They might be the very people

01:09:58.660 that you're trying to actually persuade

01:10:00.420 and you may persuade

01:10:02.200 besides the person

01:10:03.540 that you're actually

01:10:04.100 like one-on-one battling it out with.

01:10:06.360 And so it's a great point

01:10:08.360 because even the conversations

01:10:11.980 that are had,

01:10:13.020 the person that you're directly engaging with,

01:10:15.140 you're right,

01:10:15.620 when they're in a public setting.

01:10:17.740 That's why even our brother is,

01:10:19.200 it's funny sometimes,

01:10:20.060 he'd be on like a work site or something.

01:10:21.920 And this works generally actually with men

01:10:23.960 is just the example of like,

01:10:25.680 okay, if instead of like calling out the boss

01:10:28.580 in front of all of the guys,

01:10:30.400 they're not going to like that at all.

01:10:32.540 You just like bring him to the side and say,

01:10:33.900 hey man,

01:10:34.340 and then you just have that.

01:10:35.220 And like,

01:10:36.080 they're not going to know

01:10:36.740 you went out of your way to do that

01:10:38.040 to make sure that he doesn't get embarrassed.

01:10:40.700 But I think it's also

01:10:41.840 just a very considerate thing to do.

01:10:43.700 And again, that is authentic.

01:10:44.920 If I,

01:10:45.380 I haven't had to do this yet,

01:10:46.820 but if I had to,

01:10:48.480 where I was like,

01:10:48.980 okay, I feel like

01:10:49.700 based on just measuring this person's energy,

01:10:53.020 I feel like they're probably a bit left locked.

01:10:55.160 That's what we call left hemisphere locked,

01:10:56.700 but like ideological on this thing.

01:10:58.600 Then I might be like,

01:10:59.860 okay, hey,

01:11:00.340 like come over here

01:11:01.360 so we can just hear each other

01:11:02.660 and talk in private a bit more.

01:11:03.980 And they might be like,

01:11:05.080 oh, okay.

01:11:05.700 And if they ask why,

01:11:06.920 or maybe they don't ask why,

01:11:08.160 I just say,

01:11:08.780 so I did this.

01:11:09.760 So that way you and me

01:11:10.720 can just try and have this conversation

01:11:12.380 and better understand each other.

01:11:13.820 And then boom,

01:11:14.620 you might get into that.

01:11:15.660 I don't know.

01:11:16.260 I've never tried it before,

01:11:17.080 but it sounds like a good method.

01:11:18.820 Sounds like you'd be good at it.

01:11:20.620 I don't know.

01:11:22.140 And,

01:11:22.380 yeah,

01:11:23.020 I don't,

01:11:24.560 I do mean to bring this back to the brain.

01:11:26.620 One of the things that we've learned as,

01:11:29.320 because we've also talked to,

01:11:31.100 we interviewed an individual named Morgan

01:11:33.060 and he was at the event.

01:11:34.920 Rebel News interviewed him as well.

01:11:36.600 And he signed.

01:11:38.040 And when we first met him,

01:11:39.940 I am pretty sure he wasn't on board

01:11:42.540 for independence thought.

01:11:43.540 It was some,

01:11:44.740 you know,

01:11:45.000 a very whimsical idea.

01:11:46.300 It's not reasonable or approachable.

01:11:48.320 Yet he was still very,

01:11:49.580 very educated on the problems

01:11:51.780 that were happening with Canada.

01:11:53.160 And the one thing that I really love about him

01:11:55.960 is because he's been on both sides.

01:11:59.340 He was like,

01:11:59.860 I was actively worked for the NDP

01:12:01.400 and now I'm here voting for independence.

01:12:04.240 And the thing about having discernment

01:12:07.500 is you really can't marry any hand. 0.99

01:12:11.820 You know,

01:12:12.500 people looking at me and Macy's might think,

01:12:14.880 oh,

01:12:14.920 you're so involved

01:12:15.740 and clearly you're so patriotic

01:12:17.440 because you're out there on the front lines

01:12:19.440 doing all these events.

01:12:20.880 The reality is,

01:12:22.540 we try not to idealize

01:12:25.260 or marry any sort of individual.

01:12:27.880 Even,

01:12:28.200 we don't idealize Trump.

01:12:29.500 We don't idealize Danielle.

01:12:30.960 No,

01:12:31.080 is that to say that?

01:12:31.960 So we could find things both good and wrong

01:12:34.400 with both of them at all times

01:12:36.560 as we can do ourselves.

01:12:38.640 And the thing that's super important about that

01:12:40.860 is because even this movement,

01:12:42.560 we're very well aware of the ways

01:12:45.580 that it could go wrong

01:12:46.660 and it could get co-opted

01:12:48.040 and the people in there,

01:12:49.560 it can get sabotaged.

01:12:51.260 We could,

01:12:51.800 just because we get this petition

01:12:53.960 doesn't mean,

01:12:54.900 what if we do the constitutional convention

01:12:56.980 that has to be held

01:12:58.040 after independence is declared?

01:12:59.680 Because we have to do our own constitution.

01:13:03.380 What if we end up repeating

01:13:04.620 half of the mistakes

01:13:05.560 in the current confederation?

01:13:08.660 And so,

01:13:09.320 even though we are taking steps,

01:13:12.140 we are not delusional

01:13:13.900 that this is a perfect plan

01:13:15.840 because it's run by people

01:13:17.100 and people aren't perfect.

01:13:18.800 It takes work.

01:13:19.860 And so,

01:13:20.380 anything that we do

01:13:21.640 and anything we listen to,

01:13:23.380 any person we talk to,

01:13:25.220 including the own ideologies we hold,

01:13:28.220 we hold it with very open hands

01:13:30.960 because it's like Princess Leia said,

01:13:32.880 you know,

01:13:33.100 the more that you tighten your fingers,

01:13:35.280 the more planets will slip through your fingers.

01:13:38.060 And so,

01:13:38.740 you try and do that

01:13:39.440 with everything in life.

01:13:40.760 Solid reference.

01:13:41.280 Solid.

01:13:42.580 You try and do that

01:13:43.620 with people,

01:13:44.380 ideologies.

01:13:45.220 If you find yourself

01:13:46.380 so passionately,

01:13:48.760 and it's not to say

01:13:49.420 don't do anything

01:13:50.280 because that's not what that means,

01:13:51.560 but when you find yourself

01:13:52.900 feeling like you want to

01:13:54.360 take somebody

01:13:55.300 and snap them like a glow stick 0.94

01:13:56.720 and shake it

01:13:57.300 till the light comes on,

01:13:58.520 you need to look at yourself

01:13:59.960 because something in your brain

01:14:01.520 is so married to this idea.

01:14:03.980 You need to play it out

01:14:05.260 almost as if you have OCD,

01:14:07.660 obsessive compulsive disorder,

01:14:09.120 and all the people

01:14:10.180 that are so fearful

01:14:11.180 of whatever the paranoid

01:14:12.460 scenario that could happen.

01:14:16.860 What happened?

01:14:18.000 What if it happens?

01:14:19.320 Play it out.

01:14:20.480 What if it goes wrong?

01:14:22.240 Can you live on anyway?

01:14:24.520 And so,

01:14:24.920 doing that exercise

01:14:25.940 with your own brain

01:14:26.900 when you find yourself

01:14:27.680 so married to something,

01:14:29.200 you need to look at yourself

01:14:30.780 and go,

01:14:31.820 what in me needs this to happen

01:14:33.700 and do I really need it to happen

01:14:35.300 or is this just my comfort zone?

01:14:37.160 So,

01:14:37.460 that's why we so value the brain

01:14:39.120 because then it brings everybody

01:14:40.560 back to an equal playing field

01:14:42.360 because the problem

01:14:43.760 is in your own skull. 0.67

01:14:45.480 And because there's so much more

01:14:47.060 of the world

01:14:47.560 than there is you,

01:14:49.440 you really need to understand

01:14:51.120 your own brain.

01:14:52.620 If it's the only thing

01:14:54.300 you have control over in life

01:14:56.100 because you can't control

01:14:57.200 the rest of the world,

01:14:58.340 at least attempt to control

01:15:00.180 your own brain,

01:15:00.980 if nothing else.

01:15:02.300 There was a,

01:15:03.400 our dad has talked about this before

01:15:04.920 and I think it was the,

01:15:06.360 what's it called?

01:15:07.480 Unscrew the News guy

01:15:08.680 that was just interviewing

01:15:09.460 people online

01:15:10.240 and he stumbled across our parents.

01:15:12.920 And our dad was giving

01:15:15.000 his little two cents

01:15:15.980 and playing on to Maddie's little,

01:15:17.940 you might not,

01:15:19.200 you don't have to necessarily marry it

01:15:20.960 and maybe you even shouldn't,

01:15:22.520 is the Privy Council

01:15:24.660 has already said

01:15:25.500 that they're not going

01:15:26.520 to be in favor of Alberta

01:15:27.940 trying to leave, right?

01:15:29.060 And so you might be

01:15:30.020 discouraged with that.

01:15:31.360 You might be like,

01:15:32.000 oh no,

01:15:32.440 what are we going to do now?

01:15:34.980 But it is one of those

01:15:36.480 things where,

01:15:37.820 okay,

01:15:39.660 it's kind of like,

01:15:40.640 I forgot what the,

01:15:41.960 it's the,

01:15:43.460 I forget the year,

01:15:44.240 but it was the September address

01:15:45.500 and I forgot who it was

01:15:47.920 who was giving it,

01:15:48.720 but it was just,

01:15:49.500 I think,

01:15:50.200 during the-

01:15:50.980 Patrick Henry speech?

01:15:51.740 Patrick Henry speech

01:15:52.740 during the-

01:15:53.220 The Virginia address.

01:15:53.640 Virginia address, yeah,

01:15:54.760 during the American Revolution,

01:15:56.600 I think.

01:15:59.000 1776.

01:15:59.580 Yep.

01:15:59.700 Or five.

01:16:00.280 Yeah, she's got it.

01:16:00.960 There we go.

01:16:01.500 But anyways,

01:16:01.960 I just remember the speech.

01:16:03.560 And in the speech,

01:16:05.200 though,

01:16:05.500 he goes down

01:16:06.520 talking about how

01:16:07.680 they tried

01:16:08.660 every single avenue

01:16:10.320 that was thrown

01:16:11.420 at them

01:16:12.120 in,

01:16:12.520 I guess,

01:16:12.860 the sort of

01:16:13.380 democratic

01:16:14.500 slash to the book way

01:16:15.900 of how to try

01:16:16.860 and fight this beast,

01:16:18.140 which at the time

01:16:18.640 was the British Empire,

01:16:19.520 which,

01:16:20.080 FYI,

01:16:20.520 is still the British Empire.

01:16:22.720 And so they went down

01:16:23.980 every single avenue

01:16:25.420 that was laid out

01:16:27.180 before them.

01:16:27.940 And this referendum

01:16:29.040 is still us

01:16:29.820 going down the avenue

01:16:31.440 that has put,

01:16:32.200 put down

01:16:33.100 and put forward

01:16:33.800 for us to take

01:16:34.940 by the same people

01:16:36.280 that are trying

01:16:37.100 to squander us,

01:16:38.040 might I add.

01:16:38.900 So we're still

01:16:39.800 doing this thing,

01:16:40.560 though,

01:16:40.680 and some could say 0.96

01:16:41.360 that's foolish. 0.96

01:16:41.940 Why would you 0.99

01:16:42.600 play Sun Yat-sen's

01:16:44.080 Art of War?

01:16:44.580 Why do you fight

01:16:45.800 on the battlefield

01:16:46.420 that is set up

01:16:47.220 for you by your enemy?

01:16:48.340 Right?

01:16:48.840 But we do.

01:16:49.700 And so,

01:16:50.900 I think,

01:16:51.560 and so,

01:16:52.400 this plays into the,

01:16:53.280 like,

01:16:53.440 not necessarily married to it.

01:16:55.000 It's one of those,

01:16:56.100 if this doesn't come through

01:16:58.240 and if this doesn't,

01:16:59.780 you know,

01:17:00.080 it fails,

01:17:00.800 essentially,

01:17:01.360 this specific avenue,

01:17:02.700 as did all the other ones

01:17:03.840 when the same entity

01:17:05.620 that they were fighting

01:17:06.460 as we're fighting today,

01:17:08.160 if that doesn't come through

01:17:09.940 for us,

01:17:10.960 right,

01:17:11.120 then it is kind of

01:17:12.540 a bit of the

01:17:13.220 William Wallace,

01:17:14.300 like,

01:17:14.720 they may take our lives

01:17:15.560 but they'll never take

01:17:16.320 our freedoms type of thing,

01:17:17.340 then come and get it,

01:17:18.240 right?

01:17:18.500 And it's one of those,

01:17:19.680 but you can't say

01:17:20.740 that we didn't do

01:17:21.800 every single thing

01:17:23.080 before we got to this point

01:17:24.460 where,

01:17:25.360 okay,

01:17:25.580 now you just have to come

01:17:26.560 and take it from us,

01:17:27.540 right?

01:17:27.940 Because we aren't going,

01:17:29.080 we're not budging.

01:17:29.940 And that,

01:17:30.900 to me,

01:17:31.280 is,

01:17:31.660 some could say 0.98

01:17:32.880 it's foolish, 0.92

01:17:34.100 some could say 1.00

01:17:34.660 it's admirable,

01:17:35.460 regardless it's happening,

01:17:36.800 and regardless,

01:17:37.560 we've been doing it.

01:17:38.380 And so now we're going

01:17:40.200 to find out

01:17:40.920 what that entails

01:17:43.180 and if it does succeed

01:17:44.700 or not

01:17:45.200 in the way

01:17:45.660 that this avenue

01:17:46.400 has presented

01:17:47.020 to potentially succeed

01:17:48.320 or not.

01:17:49.420 And then if not,

01:17:50.600 then I guess

01:17:51.280 that is one of those,

01:17:52.420 well then,

01:17:52.840 yeah,

01:17:53.020 come and take it.

01:17:53.760 I love that dynamic

01:17:56.300 between you two.

01:17:57.160 Sorry,

01:17:57.500 James.

01:17:58.420 I just got a comment

01:18:00.020 on that from Madison,

01:18:01.520 the like,

01:18:02.540 you know,

01:18:02.960 know your mind

01:18:03.960 and,

01:18:04.240 you know,

01:18:04.580 take these fears

01:18:05.940 to the logical conclusions

01:18:07.200 and then Meiji's like,

01:18:08.620 or then come

01:18:09.780 and fight me for it.

01:18:10.980 So it's a really good,

01:18:12.520 that's a good,

01:18:13.020 you guys are good

01:18:14.500 for each other.

01:18:15.460 Oh,

01:18:16.080 dude,

01:18:16.860 oh my God.

01:18:18.140 I love that you said that.

01:18:20.360 Well,

01:18:20.640 I wanted to say one thing

01:18:21.780 that you particularly

01:18:23.100 Madison touched on

01:18:24.100 was two important points.

01:18:25.960 I don't know

01:18:26.240 if you guys know much about

01:18:27.520 or,

01:18:28.640 you know,

01:18:29.520 cognitive behavioral therapy

01:18:31.860 like CBT.

01:18:33.980 That's kind of

01:18:34.740 what you mentioned

01:18:35.200 made me think of that

01:18:35.980 where you like,

01:18:36.620 you know,

01:18:36.800 if people,

01:18:38.080 if you're catastrophizing

01:18:39.520 something,

01:18:40.020 you know,

01:18:40.240 the best thing

01:18:40.960 you can do for yourself

01:18:41.700 is take your fears

01:18:42.420 to their logical conclusion

01:18:43.540 and you'll find

01:18:44.200 oftentimes,

01:18:45.220 actually,

01:18:45.520 it's not all that bad

01:18:46.440 if your worst fears

01:18:47.320 come true,

01:18:47.800 you know.

01:18:48.800 The second thing

01:18:49.640 you said

01:18:50.000 reminds me of

01:18:51.740 you know,

01:18:52.360 a very,

01:18:52.780 a common refrain

01:18:53.860 amongst the Stoic philosophers

01:18:55.260 like the Marcus Aurelius

01:18:57.100 and things like that

01:18:58.100 with the,

01:18:58.520 you know,

01:19:00.320 worry about what you can control

01:19:02.120 and don't worry about things

01:19:03.180 that you can't control.

01:19:04.700 Oh my God,

01:19:05.520 that little prayer.

01:19:06.640 Yeah,

01:19:06.960 God help me.

01:19:08.040 Grant me.

01:19:08.440 Grant me the serenity

01:19:09.340 to accept the things

01:19:10.320 I cannot change.

01:19:11.300 Courage to change the things

01:19:12.360 I can

01:19:12.820 and wisdom to know the difference.

01:19:14.340 I love that prayer.

01:19:15.180 It's perfect.

01:19:15.880 It's so good

01:19:16.460 and I can't remember who,

01:19:17.460 it wasn't Aurelius,

01:19:18.680 it was somebody else,

01:19:19.440 but he said basically

01:19:20.820 you can exist in two states.

01:19:23.100 You can exist in a state

01:19:24.540 of worry about something

01:19:26.580 that you can control,

01:19:28.340 that you have control over

01:19:29.520 and if that's the case

01:19:30.600 then why worry about it

01:19:32.000 because you have control over it

01:19:33.420 and then the other state is

01:19:34.520 you can exist about

01:19:35.780 worrying about something

01:19:36.760 that you can't control

01:19:37.720 and again,

01:19:39.260 what's the point of worrying

01:19:40.260 about something

01:19:40.700 that you already know

01:19:41.420 you can't control?

01:19:42.180 So in this case,

01:19:42.800 because now you suffer twice.

01:19:44.860 You suffer twice

01:19:45.700 and yeah,

01:19:46.160 so either way,

01:19:47.520 regardless of what

01:19:48.200 the scenario is,

01:19:48.940 it doesn't really do

01:19:49.760 me much good

01:19:50.300 to just sit there

01:19:51.000 and worry about it.

01:19:51.620 So James,

01:19:52.080 go ahead.

01:19:52.880 Yeah,

01:19:53.120 I'll,

01:19:53.620 Mike,

01:19:53.800 I'll give you the closing,

01:19:55.020 I'll let you wrap it up

01:19:56.620 after these thoughts

01:19:57.600 but essentially

01:20:00.160 what you're describing

01:20:01.440 is we're going

01:20:01.940 through every single,

01:20:03.440 like every single avenue

01:20:05.680 that we can

01:20:06.440 follow in the process

01:20:07.720 and if our thesis

01:20:09.860 is correct

01:20:10.580 that we are in

01:20:11.460 a corrupt system

01:20:12.660 that by going

01:20:14.820 through this

01:20:15.440 even if we fail

01:20:16.480 it's essentially

01:20:17.420 proving it in real time

01:20:19.840 like we're getting

01:20:21.660 real time evidence,

01:20:22.800 real time examples

01:20:23.620 of exactly

01:20:24.800 how corrupt

01:20:26.260 and how broken

01:20:27.120 the system is

01:20:27.940 and this is where

01:20:29.840 maintaining that

01:20:31.200 little bit of

01:20:32.060 stoicism,

01:20:32.860 we're,

01:20:33.280 we want to become

01:20:34.260 the change that we

01:20:35.220 want to see

01:20:36.080 and we also

01:20:37.400 don't want to

01:20:38.500 feed in

01:20:39.500 and become the

01:20:40.700 like the meme

01:20:42.520 of independence

01:20:43.920 that we're being

01:20:45.100 labeled with,

01:20:45.960 we're being smeared

01:20:46.660 with all these

01:20:47.360 like all these

01:20:48.340 are hateful 1.00

01:20:49.660 like traitors 1.00

01:20:51.060 and they only want

01:20:51.800 this and that

01:20:52.500 and sometimes

01:20:54.000 us reacting

01:20:55.180 essentially just

01:20:56.460 we are giving

01:20:58.380 enough

01:20:59.040 like real time

01:21:00.080 examples to

01:21:01.160 prove to people

01:21:02.800 that we are the thing

01:21:03.800 that they are

01:21:04.460 like they are

01:21:06.060 accusing us of

01:21:07.600 this is where

01:21:09.000 essentially

01:21:09.640 if we're rock

01:21:12.120 solid on our

01:21:12.860 vision and we're

01:21:13.880 pushing forward

01:21:14.480 and we're like

01:21:15.940 we're positive

01:21:16.740 at these events

01:21:17.820 and we're getting

01:21:18.900 footage of people

01:21:20.020 being regular

01:21:21.440 people having

01:21:22.280 good time

01:21:22.880 we're doing the

01:21:23.760 peaceful thing

01:21:24.420 we are building

01:21:25.680 community

01:21:26.220 we are building

01:21:28.080 the momentum

01:21:28.740 at a grassroots

01:21:29.680 level

01:21:30.580 and then we're

01:21:31.960 getting just this

01:21:32.840 demonization

01:21:33.780 but we keep

01:21:35.160 if we keep

01:21:36.220 cool

01:21:37.420 we keep that

01:21:38.300 we keep the

01:21:39.220 course

01:21:39.540 then

01:21:39.900 we've got

01:21:41.660 everything on

01:21:42.180 our side

01:21:42.640 like they've

01:21:44.240 got nothing

01:21:44.920 and more

01:21:46.220 and more

01:21:46.660 like the harder

01:21:47.500 they push

01:21:48.120 the more

01:21:48.860 the system

01:21:50.020 will reveal

01:21:50.740 itself

01:21:51.220 in the process

01:21:52.560 I feel like

01:21:55.940 that was a

01:21:56.360 good closing

01:21:56.860 statement

01:21:57.280 that's pretty

01:21:58.020 darn good

01:21:58.600 well you know 0.80

01:22:00.120 guys what we

01:22:01.220 usually do to

01:22:01.880 close the show

01:22:02.440 is we ask

01:22:03.160 our guests

01:22:03.760 is there

01:22:04.360 is there

01:22:05.140 anything that

01:22:06.040 we didn't

01:22:06.760 talk about

01:22:07.200 that you

01:22:07.460 wish that

01:22:07.760 we did

01:22:08.100 well if

01:22:11.920 there is

01:22:12.480 you can

01:22:12.720 just have

01:22:13.040 us on

01:22:13.300 again

01:22:13.560 well we

01:22:15.220 certainly

01:22:15.540 plan on

01:22:16.140 it

01:22:16.300 yeah well

01:22:17.760 that's

01:22:17.980 great

01:22:18.180 where

01:22:19.200 where can

01:22:20.360 people find

01:22:21.020 you guys

01:22:21.440 where are

01:22:21.760 you most

01:22:22.120 active

01:22:22.600 we'll throw

01:22:23.320 your socials

01:22:23.880 in the

01:22:24.100 descriptions

01:22:24.500 and stuff

01:22:24.920 but if

01:22:25.120 you just

01:22:25.340 want to

01:22:25.540 shout

01:22:25.720 it

01:22:25.920 yeah we

01:22:27.360 have the

01:22:27.680 link tree

01:22:28.100 which kind

01:22:28.580 of has

01:22:28.880 everywhere

01:22:29.340 that we

01:22:29.840 are

01:22:30.200 because

01:22:30.560 some

01:22:30.860 people

01:22:31.060 prefer

01:22:31.380 Spotify

01:22:31.880 YouTube

01:22:32.540 Rumble

01:22:33.200 Substack

01:22:34.500 or all

01:22:35.760 of those

01:22:36.100 places

01:22:36.700 buy me

01:22:37.640 a matcha

01:22:38.460 we don't

01:22:39.080 drink coffee

01:22:39.740 matcha is

01:22:40.300 healthier

01:22:40.720 if people

01:22:42.380 don't know

01:22:42.840 otherwise

01:22:44.440 yeah that's

01:22:45.320 our link

01:22:46.640 trees you

01:22:47.200 can find

01:22:47.620 and pick

01:22:47.900 your own

01:22:48.200 preference

01:22:48.620 because

01:22:48.940 wherever

01:22:49.280 you are

01:22:49.800 we want

01:22:50.180 to be

01:22:50.480 yeah

01:22:51.100 perfect

01:22:51.400 at home

01:22:51.960 with homes

01:22:54.640 do you

01:22:56.100 guys

01:22:56.500 are you

01:22:57.300 going to

01:22:57.480 be attending

01:22:57.920 any events

01:22:58.480 in the

01:22:58.760 you guys

01:22:59.200 are in

01:22:59.360 the Calgary

01:22:59.780 area is

01:23:00.240 there anything

01:23:00.580 coming up

01:23:01.080 that you'll

01:23:01.340 be you'll

01:23:01.780 be around

01:23:02.220 like the

01:23:06.040 answer is

01:23:06.560 probably

01:23:07.000 yes

01:23:07.460 but our

01:23:08.940 schedules

01:23:09.340 off the

01:23:09.740 top of

01:23:10.060 our heads

01:23:10.420 are like

01:23:10.700 so I

01:23:11.900 don't know

01:23:12.160 Manny 0.80

01:23:12.380 that like

01:23:13.500 is there

01:23:14.400 anything that

01:23:15.060 you have

01:23:15.660 in mind

01:23:16.180 specifically

01:23:16.800 well there's

01:23:17.780 one Friday

01:23:18.520 happening

01:23:19.140 we'll be

01:23:19.640 there

01:23:20.080 we'll be

01:23:21.120 in

01:23:21.680 Caster

01:23:22.460 near February

01:23:24.320 we're going

01:23:24.960 to be on

01:23:25.280 the Sean

01:23:25.600 Newman podcast

01:23:26.300 coming up

01:23:27.080 also in

01:23:28.060 February

01:23:28.420 so you

01:23:29.560 know just

01:23:29.960 if you

01:23:30.460 want to

01:23:31.360 see more

01:23:32.020 of whatever

01:23:32.520 nonsense

01:23:33.140 me and

01:23:33.460 Macy

01:23:33.640 have to

01:23:34.080 offer

01:23:34.380 that's why

01:23:34.820 you go

01:23:35.120 subscribe

01:23:35.520 because we're

01:23:36.020 going to pop

01:23:36.520 up somewhere

01:23:37.200 that neither

01:23:38.240 of us thought

01:23:38.760 we would

01:23:39.160 say for

01:23:39.760 reference

01:23:40.460 probably because

01:23:41.700 Stay Free

01:23:42.360 Alberta has

01:23:43.080 been posting a

01:23:43.800 lot of locations

01:23:44.480 of events and

01:23:45.160 stuff I would

01:23:45.560 say if anything

01:23:46.300 happens to be

01:23:47.660 popping up in

01:23:48.300 the Calgary

01:23:48.900 area you will

01:23:49.960 more than likely

01:23:50.760 find us there

01:23:51.560 so yeah that's

01:23:52.820 what I can say

01:23:53.680 for some

01:23:54.080 reference

01:23:54.480 here's my

01:23:55.140 question if

01:23:55.840 Edmonton has

01:23:57.200 an event

01:23:57.860 similar to the

01:23:58.940 big four

01:23:59.420 will you come

01:24:01.100 down for that

01:24:01.780 will we see

01:24:02.780 you there

01:24:03.160 if we're

01:24:05.200 asked to

01:24:05.980 I mean we

01:24:07.520 have family

01:24:08.220 in Edmonton

01:24:09.140 and Sherwood

01:24:09.720 Park so it's

01:24:10.540 not

01:24:10.740 it's a good

01:24:11.080 excuse because

01:24:12.020 Mike and I

01:24:12.760 are here in

01:24:13.420 Edmonton and

01:24:15.000 if we do it

01:24:16.340 like if

01:24:16.900 Edmonton holds

01:24:17.960 an event of

01:24:18.500 that size

01:24:19.060 like I feel

01:24:20.640 like it's a

01:24:21.820 rivalry like

01:24:22.600 Edmonton is

01:24:23.780 going to try

01:24:24.220 to one-up

01:24:24.740 Calgary and

01:24:25.340 like oh you

01:24:26.460 only had

01:24:26.840 46 like

01:24:29.180 4600 people

01:24:30.400 like yeah we

01:24:30.980 can do better

01:24:31.400 than that and

01:24:31.900 they'll let's

01:24:33.080 bump it up by a

01:24:33.820 couple thousand

01:24:34.320 so we're

01:24:35.420 absolutely here

01:24:36.420 to support

01:24:37.160 Edmonton I

01:24:37.920 mean we grew

01:24:38.480 up in Sherwood

01:24:39.180 Park and we

01:24:40.340 went down for

01:24:41.480 the ledge

01:24:41.840 grounds when

01:24:42.780 Mitch asked

01:24:43.460 everybody to

01:24:43.980 go there we

01:24:44.480 went down when

01:24:45.240 the little

01:24:45.980 tractors did

01:24:47.320 their little

01:24:47.740 protests a

01:24:48.740 couple years

01:24:49.200 ago and did

01:24:49.800 the ledge

01:24:50.160 ground so

01:24:50.680 we've done

01:24:51.440 that before

01:24:51.840 now that you've

01:24:51.860 put it on our

01:24:52.440 radar the answer

01:24:53.440 is probably yes

01:24:54.360 then yeah

01:24:54.800 we would totally

01:24:56.360 support Edmonton

01:24:57.580 and a giant

01:24:59.140 rally that'd be

01:24:59.880 great maybe

01:25:01.140 we'll do a

01:25:01.640 live two-way

01:25:03.800 podcast during

01:25:04.740 that time if

01:25:06.300 we have too

01:25:07.100 many people

01:25:07.780 though from

01:25:08.260 Calgary or

01:25:08.960 abroad that

01:25:09.820 come down to

01:25:10.380 Edmonton to

01:25:11.120 you know support

01:25:11.960 Edmonton it might

01:25:12.740 be filled with

01:25:13.300 more Calgarians

01:25:14.160 than Edmontonians

01:25:16.220 so we gotta be

01:25:16.740 careful of that

01:25:17.420 yeah Edmonton's

01:25:18.960 a tough nut to

01:25:19.580 crack but you

01:25:20.060 know what we

01:25:20.980 got some

01:25:21.320 we're working

01:25:21.640 on it

01:25:22.100 we're working

01:25:22.820 on it

01:25:23.120 James got some

01:25:23.700 promising some

01:25:25.200 hopeful footage

01:25:26.060 so hey guys

01:25:27.360 we super

01:25:28.160 appreciate it

01:25:28.740 this is so

01:25:29.180 fun you guys

01:25:29.700 are great

01:25:30.140 we're we're

01:25:31.580 I've said it

01:25:32.080 before I said

01:25:32.620 it to you in

01:25:32.960 person but we

01:25:33.500 are excited to

01:25:34.200 watch you guys

01:25:34.680 blow up and 0.97

01:25:35.780 eclipse us in 0.58

01:25:36.720 subscribers and

01:25:37.640 views and all

01:25:38.340 that and we'll

01:25:39.060 be cheering you

01:25:39.620 on the whole

01:25:40.020 way so just

01:25:40.900 don't forget

01:25:41.360 about us little

01:25:42.000 guys when you

01:25:42.580 guys get famous

01:25:43.360 and and we'll

01:25:44.600 have you on

01:25:45.000 again hopefully

01:25:45.940 sooner rather

01:25:46.520 than later

01:25:46.980 no I

01:25:48.960 honestly say the

01:25:50.280 same thing about

01:25:50.940 you guys

01:25:51.700 no you this was

01:25:53.120 lovely thank you

01:25:53.860 thank you so much

01:25:54.640 for having

01:25:55.040 pleasure thank

01:25:55.680 you thanks guys

01:25:56.820 it's great great

01:25:57.980 to have you cheers

01:25:58.680 you

01:26:03.480 you

01:26:03.960 you

01:26:04.380 you

01:26:16.740 you

The Critical Compass Podcast - March 05, 2026

The Holmes Sisters： Ambassadors for Gen Z Conservative Politics in Alberta

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