00:01:02.320I am your host, Tate Brown here, holding it down,
00:01:04.520and I am very happy to be back with you guys today
00:01:06.540for this very special installation of The Culture War.
00:01:10.080I have a fantastic interview with the great Dr. Charles Cornish Dale,
00:01:14.540better known as the raw egg nationalist.
00:01:16.660He has a new book out, The Last Man, Liberalism, and the Death of Masculinity.
00:01:20.420And I was reading this book, and there's really a lot going on in there.
00:01:24.320He breaks down specifically the testosterone crisis that we have here in the United States, how testosterone levels are down across the board, and this has led to really weak men.
00:01:35.680In this book, he explores the reasons why.
00:01:38.020Obviously, there's the chemical, I mean, the chemical situation, the xenoestrogens, all the pesticides, et cetera, et cetera, and we talk about this at length.
00:01:45.940But also from the philosophical side, I mean, liberalism in and of itself does not really seem to facilitate masculinity.
00:02:11.240So I was just an anonymous poster beginning in about sort of late 2019, 2020.
00:02:16.960Became this figure called the Roar Egg Nationalist.
00:02:19.160I published a cookbook, the Raw Egg Nationalism Cookbook, which contains raw egg and cooked egg recipes and also some pretty based law as well.
00:02:30.880It was intended to be a way of kind of smuggling red pills actually to to the normie masses by means of a of an attractive coffee table cookbook.
00:02:40.000um uh and then i was in a tucker carlson documentary in 2022 the end of men about
00:02:46.100testosterone decline which is the actually the main theme of my new book that we'll get into
00:02:51.440uh that was when i really kind of blew up uh i was doxed in 2024 so my identity was revealed
00:02:58.560by an activist group in the uk called hope not hate uh which does that kind of thing that's their
00:03:04.020forte uh and um i've just been continuing writing ever since uh i write for info wars i do news
00:03:13.320reporting and opinion writing i've written for the american mind american greatness i write for
00:03:17.980the spectator now and for some quite um some fairly mainstream publications actually now so
00:03:23.740the the message of raw egg nationalism uh is definitely starting to break through into the
00:03:30.580mainstream which is nice yeah absolutely and i love whenever uh hope not hate and other adjacent
00:03:36.900organizations you know do they put all these eggs in the basket of this is surely going to end this
00:03:42.160guy and then it seems like almost every time at a they reveal that they're a highly esteemed
00:03:47.940academic or a massively successful businessman or both and then two uh it ends up just amplifying
00:03:54.500them they just become bigger than ever before so i'm wondering if maybe they've learned their
00:03:58.340lesson. I doubt they have at this point, but with that, maybe, uh, you could sort of give us, um,
00:04:03.760I guess the, the background to this book, uh, obviously a fantastic book. I've already read it.
00:04:09.900Um, absolutely love it, but maybe you could give a breakdown the best, the best that there we go.
00:04:15.180Now it's in camera. Um, maybe you could give a sort of background on your intellectual journey.
00:04:20.760I mean, obviously, you know, a lot of people are familiar with, with the work you've done on men's
00:04:25.300health yeah um but maybe you could give sort of that background like that intellectual journey
00:04:29.300what led you to the point where you have diagnosed obviously liberalism as um you know this pervasive
00:04:36.680force so to speak so i mean actually like my intellectual background my university background
00:04:41.780i have a doctorate from oxford uh in medieval history i wrote about the reformation um so that
00:04:48.440obviously wasn't something that came out until i actually was doxed you know that i was uh that
00:04:52.620i'm a doctor educated at oxford was at cambridge before did anthropology social anthropology um
00:04:58.500but i mean i've got like a deep background in health and fitness i was a martial arts
00:05:03.080instructor as a teenager i taught kickboxing and did a bit of competition um uh so i've always
00:05:09.260been health and fitness has always been something that matters to me and i've always understood its
00:05:12.980importance um uh bronze age pervert actually you know a lot of people were turned on to
00:05:21.800i think the political importance of health and fitness and hormones in particular
00:05:26.880by bronze age pervert so he talks in bronze age mindset about hormones and these things called
00:05:33.480xenoestrogens which are harmful chemicals that mimic the female hormone estrogen in the human
00:05:41.120body and throw off the vital ratio between testosterone to estrogen which determines
00:05:47.220whether you are male or female and this actually has bad effects for both men and women um those
00:05:53.980I mean this was something that I had been writing about for some time um before I was in the Tucker
00:05:59.700Carlson documentary and then that's when it really started to um my kind of diagnosis really started
00:06:07.100to take shape so the Tucker Carlson documentary was called The End of Men came out in 2022 um
00:06:14.120rfk jr was one of the main stars and i was really actually the other main star it was it was quite
00:06:20.620you know it was quite a way to be thrown into the limelight you know to be to be one half of a of a
00:06:26.840kind of 30 minute documentary rfk jr was the first half i was the second half um talking about uh
00:06:34.400testosterone decline and the political implications of testosterone decline and also what can be done
00:06:40.120about that and what will happen if if something isn't done about that so i mean one of the the
00:06:46.960kind of central thesis of the book or one of the central theses of the book is that there is a
00:06:51.340generational civilizational decline taking place in testosterone levels so you know this is well
00:06:58.120substantiated in in kind of gold standard scientific studies testosterone is declining one percent
00:07:05.200year on year and has been for decades and decades and you know that might not sound like a lot or
00:07:11.380one percent a year but you know 25 years you're talking a quarter I mean and you can extrapolate
00:07:17.100the trends and and end up very soon potentially in a place where actually there's very little or
00:07:23.040no testosterone in men's bodies at all but but people actually haven't really for various different
00:07:30.860reasons consider the political implications of what this might mean and i mean there are a number
00:07:37.280of reasons for this uh not least of all the fact that actually you know we live in a profoundly
00:07:43.140uh misandrist society we live in a society that is that is that actively persecutes and demonizes
00:07:53.620men for being men uh and you know you don't need to look at a phrase like toxic masculinity right
00:08:01.440and when you actually dig into what that means you find that it's just a description of all of
00:08:07.400the things that men have traditionally been expected to do like be a breadwinner um physically
00:08:13.600defend their families and their countries um compete with one another you know it's like all
00:08:19.440kind of basic foundational male behaviors and attitudes no they're toxic so we live in this
00:08:26.840misandrist society um uh that has labeled men problematic for being men and so i mean men's
00:08:35.920problems don't get taken seriously and and you know generally if testosterone decline has even
00:08:41.840been discussed at all it's been discussed as a positive thing because of course we're told
00:08:47.360testosterone is just the aggression hormone. Testosterone is just what makes men dangerous.
00:08:53.820And so actually, you know, it's a good thing if testosterone declines, because that means men will
00:08:58.820be less dangerous, they'll be less aggressive, they'll be less traditionally masculine, and we
00:09:03.620can have a progressive, more inclusive, more equal society. And that's actually the messaging that was
00:09:10.920being used by the democrats in the 2024 election particularly at the uh at the dnc in in chicago
00:09:18.140you know um planned parenthood turned up at the event with a mobile clinic and on one day they
00:09:26.220offered vasectomies to male convention girls i mean it's it's insane it's so on the nose
00:09:30.820but they actually did this you know there are all these jokes about leftists being you know
00:09:35.800cuckolds and and you know castrated and emasculated well actually they're literally
00:09:41.720doing it outside the dnc and then inside the convention you had you know because you have
00:09:47.220kamala harris as the um as the presidential candidate and you have and she's supported by
00:09:53.760tim waltz um the messaging was look actually testosterone decline is good it means men are
00:10:01.320more likely to be like tim waltz and to be happy to take to take a kind of um a backseat role and
00:10:08.880let women do the women do the driving you know that's what we want we want a female
00:10:13.300female president and the only way we're going to get it is if men actually stop being so pig-headed
00:10:18.720and masculine and if there's a biological decline that's kind of taking place well that's a good
00:10:23.680thing because that will just that will just help us on our way so um it's uh it's an interesting
00:10:29.520thing and i think it actually does you know it's very easy to portray it as a kind of peripheral
00:10:34.120concern but i actually think it cuts to the heart of um the kind of crises actually political crises
00:10:42.400uh polarization etc that we're that we're facing you know america's facing as a nation but actually
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00:11:58.900is live by texting tim to 36912 well i mean because that's kind of that's kind of the whole
00:12:03.940argument at least people utilize with with immigration is like look whatever your political
00:12:08.100issue is whatever your primary concern is you know whether you're you know you're like pro-life or
00:12:13.020um this that and the other all these various political you know causes that people have
00:12:17.600they say well it's downstream from immigration because immigration is what sort of creates
00:12:22.100the the demographic reality that you have to operate in so that's how you actually like would
00:12:25.960achieve some sort of political victories you need to have the actual like um you know constituency
00:12:30.440to achieve that to get your party elected but it's kind of the same thing with maha and i remember a
00:12:35.660lot of people were saying this including including yourself um when rfk you know was being included
00:12:40.820in the cabinet and they were sort of building this mahalic program out as they were saying look this
00:12:45.500is you need to actually facilitate the population to achieve these political victories because right
00:12:49.760now it's an uphill battle. Part of that is because of the physiological reality that men are just not
00:12:55.800masculine. And so it's going to be a lot more difficult to, again, facilitate political projects
00:13:00.220that require a degree of disagreeableness or a degree of energy, for lack of a better word,
00:13:07.620when you have a very sick, incapacitated population. And that's what's so interesting
00:13:12.000about your book. Because Francis Fukuyama, people always talk about his end of history and The Last
00:13:19.080man and they use that to like mock him and they're like see how naive are people in the you know in
00:13:23.800the 90s that they believe that this was the reality but you kind of you kind of almost i
00:13:28.040don't want to say steel man but you actually said like no there's a little more to what he was
00:13:31.560saying there um and what you're saying is like you know it's beyond like a uh political reality you
00:13:39.240know this last but it's actually become like again like a physiological reality like the of the last
00:13:44.680man so i don't know maybe you could expand on that specifically again fukuyama is like
00:13:48.980thrown around it's one of those kind of like that meme with nietzsche it's like you know nietzsche
00:13:52.600said this oh really did you read it no i don't mean either it's like fukuyama it's like did you
00:13:57.260read him no no neither so yeah well i mean fukuyama really yeah not enough people read fukuyama and
00:14:04.440those who do actually don't read him i think carefully enough so he is presented as this kind
00:14:10.720of um parody or encapsulation of liberal hubris you know oh francis fukuyama he's the guy who
00:14:17.720thought when the berlin wall fell that history ended uh and you know nothing interesting would
00:14:22.940ever happen again um uh and it would all be you know just a progress towards the sunny uplands of
00:14:29.820of uh you know like the utopia and the brotherhood of man and all that kind of stuff well that isn't
00:14:35.520really that isn't what he said at all and I mean the the title of the book is not just the end of
00:14:41.580history it's the end of history and the last man and the final quarter of the book is actually is
00:14:48.760a really really stinging really devastating Nietzschean critique of what liberal democracy
00:14:56.860and what the triumph of liberal democracy in particular over all of its kind of competitor
00:15:01.800systems does to man and what it will do to man and and you know Fukuyama says well okay
00:15:08.560yeah liberal democracy has triumphed over communism and it's hard to imagine
00:15:13.080that a better more functional political system will now turn up but it doesn't satisfy
00:15:21.840fundamental um desires and aims and goals of men and it and it forces you to live a kind of um
00:15:32.920kind of crepuscular existence you know you're just a consumer you're just one of many millions
00:15:38.080of people in a country and many billions of people on the planet you all have equal value
00:15:44.020you're all accorded equal um uh sort of political rights and legal rights um you're afforded equal
00:15:51.260opportunity or or you know so we're told and so really there isn't any horizon for grander
00:15:58.780ambitions there's no real horizon to assert yourself uh as an individual of a of a higher
00:16:06.000worth of a genuine higher worth different a different kind of person in a hierarchy like
00:16:11.740there would have been in other kinds of societies throughout history so Fukuyama's really saying
00:16:16.580like you know like there's there's a space there's something missing from liberal democracy
00:16:21.560and i extend that um to the biological plane and i say look like not only does not only is the
00:16:30.300triumph of liberal democracy kind of reducing our scope for self-exertion and self-development
00:16:36.960it's also um having an effect on the hormonal level so uh i mean fukuyama couches his thesis
00:16:44.340in terms of thimos, which is this ancient Greek term.
00:16:48.900The ancient Greeks were very, very perceptive observers
00:16:54.220of human motivations and human behavior,
00:16:56.720and they had this idea that there was this thing called thimos,
00:16:59.920which is basically something like spiritedness,
00:17:04.960And it's what drives men to do anything, really,
00:17:10.340but particularly to do things like to compete, to assert themselves,
00:17:14.340to defend their polis, the city-state, their nation, you know, their people.
00:17:20.020And Fukuyama says, look, like, this is a case of actually, you know,
00:17:24.700liberal democracy doesn't give outlet to certain kinds of thymus that are fundamental.
00:17:30.520So it gives an outlet to this thing called isothymia,
00:17:34.980which is a desire to be equal with everyone else.
00:17:37.400We all, you know, have this desire to be, you know, not to be prejudiced against
00:17:42.260and to be held in equal esteem that can be satisfied in a liberal democracy but
00:17:47.700megalothymia which is a this desire to be different you want to be better you want to
00:17:52.660be higher up in a in a hierarchy um you want to compete there's very little scope if any actually
00:18:01.240for for real satisfying um uh expression of this of this desire this megalothymia so
00:18:08.480i actually say look like the the behaviors that are associated with thymus are actually behaviors
00:18:15.000that are associated with testosterone so you can turn fukuyama actually not from from just a kind
00:18:22.500of political um explanation of what it's like to live in this kind of liberal democratic end state
00:18:28.620into a biological argument as well and you can say actually not only is liberalism um uh curtailing
00:18:36.480certain forms of behavior it's also curtailing the development and the expression of of our
00:18:43.440nature as hormonal beings it is testosterone that drives men to behave in particular ways
00:18:49.820and what you have to understand about hormones is that um they exist in a kind of feedback loop
00:18:55.680with your behavior so you know if you have testosterone if you have high testosterone you
00:19:00.640behave in certain ways and by behaving in those ways you reinforce the fact that you have high
00:19:05.580testosterone and it's like a virtuous circle but if you if you don't behave in let's say like high
00:19:12.580testosterone ways then you you go down it's like a vicious cycle and it drags you down and down and
00:19:17.540down and if you don't if you can't express yourself as a kind of testosterone driven
00:19:22.420man then actually you you have less testosterone and then that means that you behave in less
00:19:28.280testosterone driven ways and you're just going down and down and down um so yeah so i mean it's
00:19:34.140fundamentally the book, the kind of framing of the book is about Francis Fukuyama. And I'm saying,
00:19:39.540look, like, actually, let's take this seriously. This is a very perceptive critique of what is
00:19:44.040wrong with liberal democracy. And it's also maybe not even pessimistic enough, because you can
00:19:52.280extend it to the biological plane. And you can say, actually, you know, it's altering our very
00:19:57.600nature. And that's the starting point for the book, because then so you've got this idea that
00:20:03.240maybe you know like liberal democracy might not be a high testosterone political system
00:20:08.860uh that's kind of my contention but then you have this big problem that or potentially an even
00:20:14.980bigger problem that actually we've created a world that is toxic we've created a world that
00:20:21.020is literally toxic we are bathed on a daily basis whatever we do in these harmful chemicals that i
00:20:28.540mentioned earlier zen estrogens plastic chemicals fire retardants uh food additives that are in
00:20:36.080processed food herbicides pesticides pharmaceuticals uh medicine you know medicines
00:20:41.920there's this kind of kink of modern of modern industrial society that all of these chemicals
00:20:48.480that we've come to depend on and the modern world actually couldn't exist without you know i mean
00:20:52.940try imagining the modern world without plastics um all of them actually for some reason by some
00:21:00.640kink and i doubt packages by expedia you were made to occasionally take the hard route to the top of
00:21:07.660the eiffel tower we were made to easily bundle your trip expedia made to travel
00:21:14.420i don't think it's design it couldn't have been design um they encourage or mimic estrogen in the
00:21:24.200human body and so there's this kind of political let's say social cultural assault on masculinity
00:21:31.300and testosterone but then there's this also this environmental chemical assault on our bodies as
00:21:38.020well and it really is it's like a kind of two-pronged attack and it really it makes modern
00:21:43.620life fundamentally hostile to testosterone and masculinity and so that's what i'm really it's a
00:21:49.600kind of long-winded explanation but that's really what i'm what i'm trying to get at with the book
00:21:54.240is that not only do we live in a political system that's hostile to testosterone we live uh in a
00:22:00.720chemical environment that is also hostile to testosterone and so we're in big trouble yeah
00:22:06.700yeah i mean it's so interesting there's a lot of different directions we could go here i mean i
00:22:10.520guess one question that jumps out to me and you and you obviously you went into this in the book
00:22:16.320but what is the philosophical undercurrent that connects because you said it's a double-pronged
00:22:22.160attack that connects the environmental um assault with the political assault on masculinity because
00:22:28.820like okay it's two-pronged but you know the parties involved do share a philosophy to some
00:22:34.900degree i mean the evidence for this is you know you don't have to look past at monsanto to see
00:22:39.160they probably are throwing pride flags up and this that and the other so could you maybe identify
00:22:43.960and again you talked about in the book but maybe identify that philosophical undercurrent that
00:22:47.940connects the two prongs i mean one of the things that i often say and it might come across as being
00:22:53.760a bit kind of facetious or even even kind of fatuous is like if all of these chemicals that
00:23:00.100we're exposed to on a daily basis these harmful chemicals these estrogenic chemicals if they had
00:23:05.200the opposite effect if they were androgenic if they if they promoted testosterone and
00:23:12.440masculinization uh if they made men more muscular more assertive competitive more likely to you know
00:23:21.000form groups to pursue their goals political goals social goals whatever they made men more more
00:23:26.980motivated i have absolutely no doubt that governments around the world would have banded
00:23:31.980together to clean up the environment very quickly right um but because these chemicals have the
00:23:39.720opposite effect because they have this kind of suppressant effect on masculinity and they
00:23:44.420they make men less motivated they make men put on weight they make them have less libido
00:23:49.920they make them more liable to like you know sit around and be a consumer than to be like an active
00:23:55.480producer of culture and values um nothing gets done i mean yeah there are a lot there are lots
00:24:05.120of problems with the with the way that we the way that we think and you know you could call that a
00:24:10.060philosophy or whatever i mean one of the things that is a that is a big problem is that we take
00:24:14.800this very very lax attitude to the safety of novel chemicals that we create so this is one of the
00:24:22.080reasons why you know all of these chemicals again and again and again turn out to be harmful
00:24:26.760is because the attitude whether you're talking about the fda regulating food additives or the
00:24:32.560epa regulating pesticides and herbicides um they take this attitude that actually you know we only
00:24:39.280need to do minimal safety testing you know and actually maybe we can even let the corporations
00:24:43.760that make these um chemicals do the testing themselves and so that's what happens with the
00:24:49.840fda with their generally recognized as safe um uh loophole is that since the 1950s food
00:24:57.720manufacturers have actually been able to create new food additives test them themselves and then
00:25:05.820introduce them to the food supply without even telling the fda that that's what they've done
00:25:10.940so nobody and nobody in the in the us actually knows how many food additives there are in the
00:25:17.740food supply it's just it's just guesstimates so people will say uh there are 10 000 food additives
00:25:23.440in the food supply uh in the eu by comparison they know exactly how many it's some it's around
00:25:29.2202000 but like you know they know they actually know how many there are and that is one of the
00:25:33.800reasons why food is better in the eu you have some of the same problems a lot of the same problems
00:25:40.060where you've still got harmful additives uh and you've still got herbicides and pesticides and
00:25:44.900stuff but nevertheless i mean it's a significantly it's a significantly better place to eat food
00:25:52.200than the u.s in fact the u.s is probably one of the worst places in the world to eat industrially
00:25:56.640produced food um so there's just this this crazy kind of attitude this crazy kind of lax attitude
00:26:03.060where you actually you basically let corporations run wild um uh in the name of profit and it is in
00:26:11.580the name of profit and unfortunately you know the the regulatory institutions um not only have
00:26:17.560these loopholes but they're also corrupt in other ways you know corporations end up um actually
00:26:24.060putting friendly people on the board of the fda uh in the epa you know there's like there's a
00:26:30.160revolving door between business and uh the regulators that are and industries and the
00:26:36.360regulators that are supposed to regulate them uh and these you know these are all legitimate
00:26:40.800targets um the uh rfk junior has identified you know as part of the make america healthier game
00:26:47.200movement he's like you know we need to end corporate capture of the regulators and you
00:26:52.420know we also need to do something about the way that we um regulate uh chemicals and how they're
00:26:58.680licensed for safety etc so there's kind of there are different kind of philosophies at work and i
00:27:04.020mean whether there is a whether there is a philosophy that's like okay we can make people
00:27:09.660easier to control there's definitely uh that's definitely i think at least the side effect
00:27:17.080of this prioritization actually of corporate profit at the expense of good science and the uh
00:27:26.580the greater good of the public well i mean because it's interesting because just going back out it's
00:27:32.760like the macro the big view with liberalism at large it's almost it seems like at the moment
00:27:38.340it's almost impossible to capitulate it i mean my my case for this is you look at south africa
00:27:42.780yeah this is a country that should have collapsed 20 years ago by every metric it's a failed state
00:27:47.260yet they still have elections for the most part they still have like government institutions
00:27:51.620albeit like falling apart but they still exist and any other moment in history this would have
00:27:56.820been like a emperor's no clothes moment it would have just completely collapsed but you know there's
00:28:00.860still a government and there's bureaucrats that still still show up to work that is like a liberal
00:28:05.200democracy and again it just everyone's waiting for it to you know balkanize and shatter in a million
00:28:09.440pieces and it just hasn't happened yet and that kind of like goes to the point of this liberal
00:28:14.200democracy system is just really rigid it's a really rigid system and i guess that goes to
00:28:20.920the conversation that we're having you here domestically of like you know what donald trump
00:28:25.340is up against really is almost insurmountable in a lot of ways so it's like you know some people
00:28:30.820are very frustrated and rightfully so but when you look at specifically this like leviathan that is
00:28:36.300liberal democracy you realize how hard it is to truly penetrate i mean look what rfk is up against
00:28:40.740the like court injunctions on uh on actions that are like fully within the realm of the fda to be
00:28:48.500making and like that never happened to the biden you know led fda never happened to the obama led
00:28:52.860fda so it's just completely bizarre in the hhs by extension um it's just completely just i mean
00:28:59.480to your point where you said, look, if these pesticides and whatnot and these chemicals
00:29:05.540were causing a renaissance of testosterone, then there would be conversations around banning
00:29:10.740it. But when it's the opposite, it's not a problem whatsoever. So that's, I guess, my
00:29:15.780contention or my frustration with liberal democracies. It just feels like it's almost
00:29:19.380impossible to capitulate. And even when you have these Napoleonic-like figures like Donald
00:29:24.300Trump, who I truly believe is a once-in-a-generation-like figure, I think the greatest man since
00:29:29.260Napoleon. It's almost impossible for him to operate at like that Napoleonic figure because
00:29:35.880of just how rigid this system is and how impossible it seems for it to like really bend and break
00:29:42.320apart. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're really seeing, I think, the hidden strengths of liberalism. I
00:29:50.900mean, it's very easy, I think, to present liberalism and to present leftists as well,
00:29:57.160actually as weak and pathetic and you know like you can look at the antifa mug shots from portland
00:30:03.920oregon from 2020 and it's like yeah these people are disgusting i mean they are like hideous hideous
00:30:09.240individuals and malformed and you know whatever the bar scene from star wars yeah exactly yeah
00:30:15.920it's the tatooine cantina but um but they have but they have a real strength they do have a real
00:30:22.940strength they have strength in depth um uh they control the system and and yeah like you say i
00:30:31.520mean you all of a sudden when you try and do something when you actually try and move the
00:30:37.160needle that you you know you're attacked from multiple sides all at once so i mean it was it
00:30:43.920was very very noticeable you know when trump started when doge started dismantling us aid
00:30:49.360yeah look at what happened look at what happened i mean you had all of a sudden you have spontaneous
00:30:55.880protests you know like you've got this whole kind of paramilitary organization that gets people on
00:31:01.720the ground protesting and then you have um journalists for the for the wall street journal
00:31:07.480doxing members in fact and it was actually a journalist who tried to dox me it was a woman
00:31:12.380called katherine long who has very obvious deep state connections you know she she doxes marco
00:31:18.440Um, uh, you know, so you've got like this intimidation campaign from the media arm, you've got grassroots protests, you've got judicial, um, uh, pushback as well. You know, you've got judges issuing these nationwide injunctions and, and halt orders and all this kind of stuff.
00:31:36.660And it's like, whichever way you try and turn, you're presented with what appears to be like an immovable and immovable object, a roadblock.
00:31:49.680And I mean, I think we're all, in a sense, actually waiting for Trump and the Trump administration just to say, OK, we're just not going to we're just not going to take any notice of this now.
00:32:03.240You know, like the Supreme Court issues a ban on nationwide injunctions and district court judges just issue them anyway.
00:32:15.300It's like, yeah, the whole system is is just kind of falling apart.
00:32:19.820You know, it's like it's like, you know, it's like Wile E.
00:32:25.760Coyote's run off the cliff. And he just he just hasn't he just hasn't looked down yet.
00:32:31.660but actually you know like maybe we need to look down and realize actually there isn't any ground
00:32:35.220under our feet and and you just got to act accordingly but it's yeah it's very hhs like
00:32:42.380hhs coming in changing the vaccine schedule and then a district court yep you know issues an
00:32:48.000injunction and you're sitting there like are courts in charge of vaccine schedules now like
00:32:52.180that's just an ultimate emperor has no clothes moment in my opinion well i mean when when the
00:32:57.100supreme court struck down the nationwide injunctions then i mean justice uh katanji
00:33:02.300jackson brown obviously was in favor of nationwide injunctions right and i think it was amy coney
00:33:07.520barrett um wrote a scorching um yeah commentary where she was like you want to replace what you
00:33:16.620call an imperial presidency you know president trump acting like an emperor with an imperial
00:33:21.840judiciary um and and it's true you know they've just they've usurped the legitimate powers of
00:33:29.700various other arms of government i mean you know we can all talk about a kind of uh balance of
00:33:35.480powers and you know the three three branches of government whatever and it's like but okay but
00:33:40.500whichever way you know that you're stopping the president from exercising his legit his his
00:33:46.200legitimate powers as the commander-in-chief as the president of the united states then
00:33:51.740you're stopping the agencies from using their legitimate powers to determine um health care
00:33:57.680and it's it's just a nightmare and conceivably then the rest of the trump administration the
00:34:03.640remaining two three years you know could be taken up with just trying to do stuff and being blocked
00:34:10.480and then saying oh well we can't do anything i mean at least with the tariffs i think you know
00:34:16.000because the tariffs controversially struck down uh by the supreme court so i mean that's again
00:34:21.640That's a that's another reminder. You know, there actually isn't there isn't a single forum, not even the supposedly conservative Supreme Court that will actually can be relied upon to come down on the side of the administration.
00:34:39.640And I think it was Kavanaugh wrote another scorching dissent where he said, like, look, it's obvious that the president can issue emergency tariffs.
00:34:52.760It's obvious, you know, the the IEPA or whatever it was, the name of the act, you know, that he was the Emergency Economic Powers Act.
00:35:00.980It lets the president issue an embargo on a country.
00:35:05.040So the president can say, actually, we're not going to buy any goods from your country.
00:35:09.640So like China, you know, we're not going to let in a single good from China, from China.
00:35:15.100You know, we're not going to let in a single Huawei modem, router or, you know, whatever.
00:35:23.240So you can have no trade with the country if the president decides, but you can't put far more reasonable, far more moderate limits on your trade.
00:35:34.520It's just like it's it's totally crazy.
00:35:38.320um all it reveals is that actually um uh what matters is stifling and um reversing president
00:35:48.620trump's agenda for his second term that's what matters is making sure that president trump
00:35:53.440doesn't get his way at any cost um i mean yeah it's it's it's it's crazy and it's difficult
00:36:01.140it's difficult to know how you're going to get around that you know packing the supreme court
00:36:07.520with conservatives obviously doesn't work because uh amy coney barrett voted against the tariffs
00:36:12.260um uh and she was appointed by trump uh and is apparently apparently conservative and and
00:36:19.800apparently she can read as well so she should have been able to read the iepa but she did but
00:36:25.600she didn't and she had a very strange interpretation of it um so it's it's really difficult to know what
00:36:31.360what to do other than just to say well okay we're going to do something else but i mean the the
00:36:36.860Trump administration is at least looking for other legal avenues to, you know, to issue tariffs. But
00:36:42.760the problem is, you know, then they're going to be blocked too. You just absolutely can't rely on
00:36:48.360anybody to uphold a neutral nonpartisan, or even a fate or and certainly not a favorable, you know,
00:36:56.260pro conservative pro right wing interpretation of the law and the president's powers and all
00:37:03.660these kinds of things. But I mean, the good thing, I think, at least about this is that
00:37:08.400President Trump is finally revealing, I think, the limits of the system, the limits of what you
00:37:14.500can do within the system, how broken the system is, and how it's been bent and reshaped to serve
00:37:22.320just a left-wing agenda. You can be a left-wing president and do whatever you want,
00:37:27.740but if you're a right-wing president you can't do anything um so i think it's i think it will
00:37:35.000encourage um creative thinking and i think it will also encourage people to question actually
00:37:41.540whether something more fundamental needs to happen whether the system really actually needs to be
00:37:47.120needs to be overhauled i mean obviously that's that's pretty drastic because you know i mean
00:37:52.040You know, the American system has worked pretty well for 250 years, more or less.
00:37:57.760I mean, I think it's changed a lot in the 20th century in ways that weren't good, beginning with FDR, with the New Deal and, you know, big, big changes.
00:38:10.040But yeah, it's very, very noticeable, the limitations of the system and what you can and can't do if you actually aren't left wing, if you don't actually, you know.
00:38:21.760pull in the right direction yeah well and it's so interesting because also no matter how bad
00:38:28.800things get right no matter how broken things you know around you become i mean to go back to south
00:38:34.660africa as an example you can there's that twitter page everyone's passing around josie versus josie
00:38:39.180it just shows you a picture of johannesburg from 20 2010 credit now and like 2010 it's like all
00:38:43.820right it's like whatever you know it's south africa it's nice 15 years later it looks like a
00:38:47.680you know, a bomb went off or something. And then the point of that isn't just to show you how bad
00:38:52.620things can get. The point of that, in my opinion, my evaluation is there are still liberals in South
00:38:57.700Africa. So no matter how bad things have gotten there, there are still people who are just
00:39:02.380liberals. They're just committed to flattening hierarchy completely because they believe that
00:39:06.980is the pathway to utopia. And that kind of goes back to, you know, our earlier conversation of
00:39:11.100like, you know, what makes right wing thought, you know, distinct, but what makes right wing
00:39:15.800thought, the philosophy that would facilitate masculinity, that would facilitate testosterone
00:39:23.400and these sorts of things, is because it acknowledges hierarchy and then seeks to
00:39:27.720not only uphold it, but embolden it. I mean, because that's what facilitates
00:39:32.740human prosperity and flourishment and general fulfillment. And liberalism, I mean, you talked
00:39:38.700about in the book, is it creates room for goals on the micro level, like personal goals, but it
00:39:44.400doesn't facilitate the space for goals that maybe are all encompassing that are like society-wide
00:39:49.560they could actually leave a footprint on your nation and your planet well you know it's i mean
00:39:55.600the south african case is is very interesting i mean i had a south african girlfriend fairly
00:39:59.920recently and her family they had just they had just come over from south africa they were dairy
00:40:04.420farmers near johannesburg and they had had to leave south africa because it was getting so you
00:40:10.840know so awful and i mean i can remember meeting the girl's mom and she said oh oh charlie it's
00:40:16.960it's so nice being here and being able to get out of my car outside my house and open the door
00:40:25.080without thinking that someone might jump on me and try and carjack me or kill me because i mean
00:40:30.400you know she said to me like if you break down on a motorway you know on a freeway in south africa
00:40:36.020you're dead you are dead um uh but but you know they'd had this experience where you know i mean
00:40:44.720they were they were boas they had come over from south from from you know their ancestors had come
00:40:49.420from holland from the low countries to south africa hundreds of years before created a a
00:40:56.540prosperous society and then they had to leave you know after hundreds of years but but this
00:41:03.180girl's family they could not say that they thought life was better under apartheid right they actually
00:41:10.180could like she wouldn't she wouldn't her mother would not defend apartheid at any level at any
00:41:17.180level which which i found very very interesting like i tried tried to press a little bit and i
00:41:21.900was like okay yeah i'm not going to get anywhere um arguing with you for instance that actually
00:41:27.460okay like maybe this discriminatory system actually is the only way that you can make
00:41:32.640society like that work and yeah and in terms of let's say like a utilitarian calculus actually
00:41:39.820everyone was better off because blacks in south africa aren't doing better now than they were
00:41:44.740under apartheid right um yeah but what happens of course is you get the eef and and julius malema
00:41:51.400and all of these people they can blame the whites and you know the reason why things haven't gotten
00:41:57.160better for blacks in south africa is just because whites still have land and whites still have you
00:42:03.140know disproportionate power and so what we need to do is we need to dispossess them and and kill them
00:42:08.420and you know drive them off and then of course you know if south africa becomes exactly like
00:42:13.540zimbabwe then obviously things are going to be better but um yeah it's very it's very very
00:42:18.860interesting the south african case i think is really is really a kind of anti-accelerationist
00:42:25.260case as well actually i think about it quite a lot when i see people talking on twitter as they
00:42:31.160do quite loosely about oh you know and especially as they have been actually since you know the iran
00:42:37.200strikes and and since everybody started truning out really i mean it's just it's such an awful
00:42:44.180place to be at the moment twitter but um you know people really truning out saying oh well you know
00:42:48.780we got to burn the whole system down i'm like look at look at south africa and see if that actually
00:42:53.940leads to a desired outcome because you know i mean okay the demographics of south africa are
00:42:59.400different south africa is you know a majority non-white society and it even was under under
00:43:05.120apartheid but like you know there's a powerful case that actually things can just get worse and
00:43:11.040worse and worse and worse and worse and worse forever you know like they don't get worse and
00:43:15.520worse and worse and then and then you know you you're in you're in based world because there's
00:43:20.080this inevitable revolt or something that's not that's not necessarily the case but yeah i mean
00:43:25.560the the the hierarchy thing um the hierarchy thing and and testosterone is interesting because you
00:43:32.760know i i talk in the book of there's a lot of scientific studies in the book you know i really
00:43:37.500try to ground uh my argument about like the biology of politics in science because there's
00:43:43.760actually a lot of interesting scientific work on maybe not enough but there is there is uh there's
00:43:51.000quite a lot of scientific work on the way that testosterone affects particular attitudes so
00:43:57.760there are studies that show for example that if you give men a dose of testosterone they actually
00:44:05.940become more comfortable with hierarchy you know and at a very very fundamental level the difference
00:44:14.800the fun you know the real difference between left and right concerns hierarchy the left wants to
00:44:20.420flatten hierarchy totally you know in in every domain every axis um and the right wants to
00:44:29.480reconstitute correct forms of hierarchy in order to have a uh you know well-functioning society
00:44:36.820um uh that values the right things etc so like hierarchy is a fundamental difference and it
00:44:44.560turns out that actually if you rub testosterone gel on a man's arm he's more likely to be happy
00:44:49.820with hierarchy um than if he gets a a placebo that doesn't contain testosterone rubbed on his arm i
00:44:57.160I mean, that's a that's a kind of one of many indications that actually, you know, like testosterone decline does favor a leftist liberal system.
00:45:09.720And, you know, one reason why, you know, I try to make conservatives care about this kind of stuff because I think like it's not ephemeral.
00:45:21.600uh the biological changes that are taking place and have been taking place over the last 50 70
00:45:27.640you know maybe even 100 years they're not ephemeral they are driving the kind of trends
00:45:32.820that we're seeing at the moment and uh and the kind of political polarization um and so actually
00:45:39.540you know we need to we need to take them seriously and it's affecting women as well i mean this is
00:45:44.160something you know i mean i i kind of get called the the masculinist guru and stuff that vanity
00:45:50.720fair called me that i think and like let's go yeah yeah i mean i'm fine with that like i don't
00:45:55.740yeah i don't mind too much but like on the resume um it's on the i think it's on the back of the
00:46:02.000it's on the back of the yeah it's on the back of the book masculinist health guru vanity yeah
00:46:06.620but like um this is affecting women too you know like the the profound kind of hormonal changes
00:46:13.260that are taking place in our social and political environment affect women as well and uh one of
00:46:19.280the things that i get into in the book is hormonal contraception you know like there's that's a very
00:46:26.340very thorny subject and it's not something that people want to talk about it's not something that
00:46:33.320scientists are necessarily inclined to investigate because they know you know the sexual revolution
00:46:41.440women's equality women's freedom as and and this kind of um kind of mythical conception of women
00:46:49.520as being you know exactly the same as men um rests on i think um adequate contraception it rests on
00:46:58.580the invention of hormonal contraception of the pill which allows women not to be slaves to uh
00:47:06.820their menstrual cycles and the possibility of uh unwanted pregnancy um and so actually you know
00:47:13.980talking about any of the negative effects of hormonal contraception is strongly strongly
00:47:19.180discouraged um stigmatized even you know if you try to do it so so there's a great book called
00:47:25.380this is your brain on birth control i think it's sarah hill it's the author that i talk about in
00:47:31.340the book and you know it's a catalogue of um all the kind of negative effects of uh being on
00:47:38.400hormonal birth control as a woman including the way that it affects you know like perception
00:47:43.000moods emotions sexual preferences so there is there is good experimental data that show um
00:47:50.840that actually women's sexual preferences change on and off the pill so well i mean we all have
00:47:55.660kind of anecdotal evidence of this we all know someone whose kind of girlfriend has gone a bit
00:47:59.440crazy on or off the pill or whatever but like you know i mean there's there's real like research
00:48:04.600high quality data about the fact that women's sexual preferences change when they go on and
00:48:10.420off the pill and that's why actually a lot of relationships end up including marriages break up
00:48:16.120because actually you know you're on hormonal contraception and it fixes you within one
00:48:21.300particular phase of the menstrual cycle the luteal phase um when your sexual preferences are different
00:48:27.660from if you were fertile and could get pregnant you know women who are fertile and and and can
00:48:35.180get pregnant favor men with higher testosterone right and that means like classically classically
00:48:42.120masculine facial features and attributes um they find more attractive and so women who let's say
00:48:48.580you're a woman on hormonal birth control and you know you meet a boyfriend you come off hormonal
00:48:53.040birth control and you look at him and you're like who is this twink that i've been sharing my life
00:48:59.060with and that happens that actually happens um yeah but there's but there's even more kind of
00:49:04.500sinister stuff that's starting to starting to be revealed like there was a study that showed
00:49:10.280that women on hormonal birth control a very very important part of their brain actually shrinks
00:49:16.860so they did um mri scans of women's brains on and off hormonal birth control with control
00:49:23.580and um they showed that hormonal birth control you shrinks a region of the um prefrontal cortex
00:49:30.640that is uh it's called the ventromedial prefrontal cortex and it's involved in uh fear regulation and
00:49:38.600emotional processing so it's like it's a fundamental region of the brain that is involved
00:49:45.080in executive control and emotional control right and it's and it's being shrunk by hormonal birth
00:49:50.640control tens of millions of women are on hormonal birth control a lot of them actually beginning in
00:49:55.780their teenage years so yeah you know there's there really is um the possibility actually i think that
00:50:02.700hormonal birth control is is having like big aggregate effects on a societal level you know
00:50:09.780it's shifting women's preferences it's shifting their behavior not only in terms of like the
00:50:15.000dating market and interpersonal relationships but maybe also politically as well because you know
00:50:19.720remember there's a lot of data now about political polarization and and so much of it seems to
00:50:26.860suggest that actually you know it's not men who are it's not men and women who are diverging from
00:50:32.780each other you know like men are going really far right and women are going really far left
00:50:36.920it's that actually men are still kind of cleaving towards the center maybe getting a little bit more
00:50:41.620right wing but it's not you know like a huge thing but then you've got women just veering off
00:50:45.980um yeah to the left and that may actually be a function of at least on some level of the changing
00:50:53.780hormonal environment uh we live in including the use of hormonal birth control so there's there's
00:50:59.900so much that can be said um uh and i mean i i have to in the book you know i have to talk about it
00:51:05.960at times in quite an impressionistic way because because it's a difficult subject to find you know
00:51:13.780a lot of data about you know it's because because scientists a lot of scientists won't touch it
00:51:19.000especially stuff about hormonal birth control there's more stuff about testosterone but less
00:51:23.800about hormonal birth control but i mean i i do think it really is that is the case that actually
00:51:28.820You know, the kind of trends that we've seen in male and female hormones kind of favor leftism and they favor the kind of the leftward swing of society in various different ways.
00:51:41.200So it's it is something that right wingers should take seriously.
00:51:45.680And it's one of many reasons why I think right wingers should get behind RFK Jr.
00:51:50.420and try to protect him as much as possible and, you know, protect what he's doing.
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