The Culture War - Tim Pool - January 08, 2025


Corporate Press LOSES IT After Meta NUKES Their Ability To Censor Conservatives & HELP Democrats

Topics
Meta's fact-checking program changes
Hosted by
Tim Pool Phil Labonte Hannah Claire Brimelow
Mentioned
Donald Trump Mark Zuckerberg Hunter Biden Politico Hillary Clinton Aaron Sharkokman Visa Card Appalachian Nights Natasha Bertrand Graphene Dream Paul Manafort Jared Kushner Michael Flynn Max Keiser Joe Biden Bill Barr Martha Story Meta Kiev
Should America END The H1-B Visa Program？ MAGA SPLITS Over H1-B Democrats FAILED California, DEI Policy Led To Historic Wildfire, Newsom Faces Calls For RESIGNATION

Episode Stats


Length

20 minutes

Words per minute

174.63

Word count

3,529

Sentence count

265

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In December of 2016, after Donald Trump had been elected, a third party fact-checking service called PolitiFact launched. Almost immediately after, due to pressure from the mainstream media, saying that there was too much misinformation, there was criticism that fact-checkers played a role in disseminating some of this false information or fake news. And now, with Trump about to re-enter office, Mark Zuckerberg took to social media to say we are ending the third-party fact checking program. We ve reached a point where it s just too many mistakes and too much censorship. So we re going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies, and restoring free expression on our platforms.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
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00:00:45.280 In December of 2016, Facebook launched its third-party fact-checking service.
00:00:51.120 Almost immediately after Donald Trump had been elected,
00:00:53.820 due to pressure from the mainstream media saying that there was too much misinformation.
00:00:58.640 There was a criticism that Facebook played a role in disseminating some of this false information or fake news.
00:01:06.700 We're looking at things like working with third parties, helping to label false news.
00:01:11.400 Misinformation is something we take seriously, really seriously.
00:01:15.140 Everyday Americans had their posts visibility limited, and many lost their accounts entirely.
00:01:19.740 As the government was putting increasing pressure on social media companies to fact-check and de-platform right-wing voices,
00:01:26.180 the right were finding their voices stifled in the new town square.
00:01:29.460 Now, real quick, before we get into the rest, check out castbrew.com.
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00:01:41.820 But either way, it's delicious gingerbread coffee.
00:01:44.500 And you get a picture of Phil Labonte, of all that remains, dressed as Santa Claus.
00:01:47.800 It's a whole lot of fun.
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00:01:52.920 Check out castbrew.com.
00:01:54.440 Pick some up.
00:01:55.180 And don't forget to head over to timcast.com.
00:01:57.180 Become a member.
00:01:57.880 But let's get back to the news.
00:01:59.620 Trump about to re-enter office.
00:02:01.060 Mark Zuckerberg took to social media to say we are ending the third-party fact-checking program.
00:02:06.620 We've reached a point where it's just too many mistakes and too much censorship.
00:02:10.860 The recent elections also feel like a cultural tipping point towards once again prioritizing speech.
00:02:16.820 So we're going to get back to our roots and focus on reducing mistakes, simplifying our policies,
00:02:22.260 and restoring free expression on our platforms.
00:02:25.380 More specifically, here's what we're going to do.
00:02:27.880 First, we're going to get rid of fact-checkers and replace them with community notes, similar
00:02:33.140 to X, starting in the U.S.
00:02:35.700 After Trump first got elected in 2016, the legacy media wrote non-stop about how misinformation
00:02:41.960 was a threat to democracy.
00:02:44.060 We tried in good faith to address those concerns without becoming the arbiters of truth.
00:02:49.040 But the fact-checkers have just been too politically biased and have destroyed more trust than they've
00:02:54.180 created, especially in the U.S.
00:02:55.560 They will allow more speech by lifting restrictions on some topics that are a part of mainstream
00:03:00.340 discourse and focusing on enforcement of illegal and high-severity violations.
00:03:04.940 They're also going to take a more personalized approach to political content so that people
00:03:08.860 who want to see more of it in their feeds can.
00:03:11.340 A big component of the controversy was that Mark Zuckerberg said we are going to downrank
00:03:16.120 civic content.
00:03:17.520 That's right, if you like sharing political memes or information pertaining to the goings
00:03:22.380 on of the world, they actually restricted your ability to share this information.
00:03:27.000 Kind of makes no sense.
00:03:28.480 Meta's decision affects contracts it has with 10 fact-checking partners in the U.S.
00:03:33.120 Its website shows it has similar business arrangements with fact-check organizations in about 119 countries,
00:03:39.440 extensively in Europe, Brazil, and India.
00:03:41.880 But only the U.S.
00:03:43.140 program was changed by Tuesday's announcement.
00:03:45.780 Now, the fact-checkers are pointing the finger back at Meta.
00:03:48.900 PolitiFact is claiming that bias isn't the problem because they were following Meta's
00:03:53.420 rules.
00:03:53.880 And in one of the most hilarious headlines, the New York Times wrote that Meta says the
00:03:59.120 fact-checkers were biased, but fact-checkers say, no, we weren't.
00:04:03.800 I love it because it's like the, we've investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong.
00:04:08.180 In this post from Aaron Schrockman, who is leading the Poynter Institute, which basically
00:04:14.280 decided who was going to be in this program, he says, PolitiFact will have more to say on
00:04:18.620 this, but these are my thoughts.
00:04:20.600 The decision has nothing to do with free speech or censorship.
00:04:23.800 PolitiFact is an original partner and has been working on this project for eight plus
00:04:26.920 years.
00:04:27.400 The statement reads, the decision to remove independent journalists from Facebook's
00:04:31.520 content moderation program in the U.S. has nothing to do with free speech or censorship.
00:04:35.600 Mark Zuckerberg's decision could not be less subtle.
00:04:38.960 PolitiFact is one of the five original partners who worked with Facebook to launch a fact-checking
00:04:42.820 program in the U.S. in December 2016.
00:04:45.920 And our journalists have worked on the project for more than eight years, publishing thousands
00:04:49.660 of fact-checks in that time.
00:04:51.560 Let me be clear.
00:04:52.860 The decision to remove or penalize a post or account is made by Meta and Facebook, not
00:04:58.400 fact-checkers.
00:04:59.420 They created the rules.
00:05:01.040 The role of PolitiFact and other U.S.-based journalists has always been to provide additional
00:05:04.680 speech and context to posts that journalists found to contain misinformation.
00:05:09.380 The role of Facebook and Meta has always been to decide what to do with that information.
00:05:13.400 Facebook and Meta solely created the penalties that publishers faced and the warning labels
00:05:17.700 and overlays that users saw.
00:05:19.740 It was Facebook and Meta that created a system that allowed ordinary citizens to see their
00:05:24.140 posts demoted but exempted politicians and political leaders who said the very same
00:05:28.640 things.
00:05:29.000 In case it needs to be said, PolitiFact and the U.S. fact-checking journalists played no
00:05:34.260 role in the decision to remove Donald Trump from Facebook.
00:05:37.300 Today, if they chose, Facebook and Meta could remove the penalties publishers face from posting
00:05:42.040 false claims and create a system that allows independent journalists to provide additional
00:05:46.620 information and speech to users looking to understand the entire picture.
00:05:50.980 The great thing about free speech is that people are able to disagree about any piece of
00:05:55.460 journalism we post.
00:05:56.660 You can see all of our work online at PolitiFact.
00:05:59.340 We don't use anonymous sources and we provide a bibliography of sorts to all the information
00:06:04.120 we consulted.
00:06:05.140 When we make an error, there is a process to correct those mistakes.
00:06:08.440 And there is also a process to make sure Facebook and Meta receive the correct information.
00:06:12.920 That's how the information cycle is supposed to work.
00:06:15.300 If Meta is upset it created a tool to censor, it should look in the mirror.
00:06:20.100 Signed, Aaron Sharkokman, PolitiFact Executive Director.
00:06:25.460 I think he meant to say Aaron Sharkokman, but maybe he has a typo.
00:06:28.380 Now, herein lies the problem.
00:06:30.120 The journalists are saying, hey, we didn't downrank anybody or flag them or accuse them
00:06:35.140 of anything.
00:06:36.160 All we did was say that these posts contained misinformation.
00:06:39.780 Facebook then decided what to do with it.
00:06:42.220 The problem?
00:06:43.060 For many publications like the Daily Wire, the Babylon Bee, and even Timcast, when they
00:06:48.180 would flag our content as false, they would put a big old label on the front saying that
00:06:53.240 we lied.
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00:07:10.020 When we didn't, often the stories that we published were either satire in the case of
00:07:14.600 the Babylon Bee or with the Daily Wire, Timcast, and many others, we were 100% correct.
00:07:20.480 The reality is these third-party fact-checking organizations were massively biased.
00:07:25.840 Take a look at this list of 10 third-party fact-checking organizations that had contracts
00:07:30.280 with Meta.
00:07:31.000 You've got AFP, Check Your Fact, FactCheck.org, Lead Stories, PolitiFact, Science Feedback,
00:07:38.880 Reuters, Televisia, Univision, The Dispatch, and USA Today.
00:07:42.180 There was only one partner with Meta that could even be considered right-leaning.
00:07:46.300 Check Your Fact had ties to the Daily Caller.
00:07:49.680 So let's take a look at the fact-check bias chart.
00:07:52.940 One of the original partners, PolitiFact, had issues with left-leaning bias dating back
00:07:57.140 to 2010.
00:07:59.180 University of Minnesota School of Public Affairs had actually done a survey of PolitiFact,
00:08:03.560 and they evaluated all 500 statements that PolitiFact had rated from January of 2010
00:08:08.220 to January of 2011.
00:08:09.560 They found that of the 98 statements that PolitiFact had rated false, 74 of them were
00:08:15.520 by Republicans.
00:08:16.340 Duke University found that among PolitiFact's most prolific fact-checkers, there is a heterogeneity
00:08:21.980 in their relative ratings of Democrats and Republicans that may suggest the presence of
00:08:26.680 partisanship.
00:08:27.460 But hey, let's not just assume third-party analysis is correct.
00:08:31.980 Let's actually show you many times they got it wrong and dangerously wrong.
00:08:37.260 Here's some really big ones.
00:08:38.300 How about the Hunter Biden laptop story?
00:08:41.320 In 2020, Facebook and Twitter took action to halt the spread of an article by the New
00:08:45.200 York Post based on leaked emails from a laptop belonging to Joe Biden's son, Hunter Biden.
00:08:49.660 Initially, Facebook reduced the visibility of the news stories, adding a note saying,
00:08:53.740 quote,
00:08:54.380 If we have signals that a piece of content is false, we temporarily reduce its distribution
00:08:59.080 pending review by a third-party fact-checker.
00:09:01.280 There was a lot of attention on Twitter during the election because of the Hunter Biden laptop
00:09:07.200 story, the New York Post.
00:09:08.300 Yeah, we have that too.
00:09:09.420 Yeah.
00:09:09.660 So you guys censored that as well?
00:09:11.700 So we took a different path than Twitter.
00:09:14.940 I mean, basically, the background here is the FBI, I think, basically came to us, some
00:09:19.820 folks on our team.
00:09:20.800 It was like, hey, just so you know, you should be on high alert.
00:09:24.660 We thought that there was a lot of Russian propaganda in the 2016 election.
00:09:30.060 We have it on notice that basically there's about to be some kind of dump that's similar
00:09:38.520 to that.
00:09:39.240 So just be vigilant.
00:09:40.560 The distribution on Facebook was decreased, but people were still allowed to share it.
00:09:44.880 So you could still share it.
00:09:46.020 You could still consume it.
00:09:47.480 So when you say the distribution has decreased, how does that work?
00:09:51.360 Basically, the ranking in News Feed was a little bit less.
00:09:54.180 So fewer people saw it than would have otherwise.
00:09:57.320 So it definitely...
00:09:58.580 By what percentage?
00:09:59.880 I don't know off the top of my head, but it's meaningful.
00:10:03.080 I don't know if the answer would have been don't do anything or don't have any process.
00:10:07.540 I think the process was pretty reasonable.
00:10:10.160 You know, we still let people share it.
00:10:12.340 But obviously, you don't want situations like that.
00:10:14.840 Facebook later undid the bloc, which it said had stemmed from concerns around Russian
00:10:18.840 disinformation.
00:10:19.520 But the decision to suppress the story while waiting for it to be fact-checked caused major
00:10:24.020 political damage to Zuckerberg.
00:10:26.140 Next, how about the COVID lab leak theory?
00:10:28.700 As coronavirus spread around the world, suggestions that the virus could have been man-made were
00:10:32.720 suppressed by Facebook.
00:10:34.240 An opinion column in the New York Post with the headline, Don't Buy China's Story, the
00:10:38.200 coronavirus may have leaked from a lab, was labeled as false information.
00:10:42.180 The decision infuriated the U.S. newspaper, which insisted the piece just discussed the theory
00:10:46.920 rather than making a definitive claim one way or the other.
00:10:50.180 It was months later that further doubts emerged over the origins of coronavirus.
00:10:54.940 We do not definitively know where the virus came from.
00:10:57.800 A U.S. 0.66
00:10:58.120 Intelligent Report in 2023 said its agencies had been unable to determine the precise origin
00:11:03.120 of COVID-19.
00:11:04.020 China has insisted.
00:11:05.240 Claims the virus may have leaked from a lab in Wuhan are false, although some scientists
00:11:09.280 have argued it's a possibility.
00:11:10.580 In 2021, Facebook lifted its ban on claims the virus could have been man-made.
00:11:15.780 Obviously, as it pertained to COVID, the whole thing was suppressed in favor of a mainstream
00:11:21.740 narrative that often conflicted.
00:11:24.340 Famously, Fauci said early on, you don't need to be wearing a mask, but then later said,
00:11:29.060 you're going to probably want to wear a mask.
00:11:30.940 And then, of course, mask mandates became the thing.
00:11:33.200 The confusion was largely due to these companies and the narrative machine telling you what you
00:11:38.960 could or could not say, to where famously, Bill Burr, the comedian, said, I just turn
00:11:43.520 on the TV and they tell me to wear a mask.
00:11:45.680 I do.
00:11:45.980 If they tell me not to, I won't.
00:11:47.700 Nobody really knew what was going on.
00:11:49.820 Now, I don't think that's necessarily the fault of fact checkers, but we cannot live in
00:11:54.640 a reality where you have massive tech platforms, leaving everybody just scrambling, completely
00:12:00.200 unsure how to actually navigate this problem.
00:12:03.140 Perhaps it's a good reason to say, maybe we should just let the people decide.
00:12:08.100 And hey, obviously, the COVID stuff gets a little crazy.
00:12:11.940 A lot of misinformation, a lot of confusion, a narrative machine trying to tell us what
00:12:16.020 to think when no one really knew.
00:12:17.600 But how about the obvious stuff like this one?
00:12:19.960 Kamala has never been referred to as the borders are, they claimed.
00:12:23.160 How about Biden wandering away from world leaders at the G7 meeting?
00:12:27.080 And we can't forget the very fine people hoax statements from Trump in 2017 that took until
00:12:33.280 June of 2024 for a fact checker to confirm Donald Trump never called neo-Nazis and white
00:12:40.460 nationalists very fine people.
00:12:42.280 It would seem that fact checking for political advantage was the name of the game.
00:12:45.800 Just take a look at when most of the fact checking occurred and the types of ratings
00:12:49.320 given.
00:12:49.760 Republicans were the party out of power, implying that PolitiFact should have found more lies
00:12:55.260 by the party in control.
00:12:56.860 But does that necessarily follow?
00:12:58.400 These left-wing fact checkers were paid big money to silence Americans.
00:13:03.060 Two fact checkers, LeadStories and FactCheck.org, disclosed their 2019 funding from Facebook.
00:13:08.560 LeadStories was paid $359,000 in 2019 by Facebook.
00:13:13.420 And FactCheck.org was paid about $229,600.
00:13:17.880 LeadStories and FactCheck.org account.
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00:13:34.540 For more than half of all of the Facebook content review by U.S. FactCheckers in January of 2020,
00:13:40.540 Facebook's total investment in 2019 would be about $2 million.
00:13:44.520 Now, most of you have probably seen this.
00:13:46.880 Most of you have probably experienced it.
00:13:48.840 You're sitting here watching a YouTube video on a channel that routinely calls out lies from
00:13:53.380 the corporate press.
00:13:54.080 But we often do rely on the corporate press for this news.
00:13:57.140 One of the biggest conundrums in the fact-checking space
00:14:00.880 is that outlets like the New York Times, ABC News, and CBS are considered de facto true
00:14:06.860 no matter what.
00:14:09.380 That's right.
00:14:10.240 How do these third-party fact-checkers determine
00:14:12.960 if you said something true or false?
00:14:15.500 They simply cite a news source that they think is always correct.
00:14:20.780 Doesn't really make sense, does it?
00:14:22.700 But that's the game.
00:14:23.420 If the New York Times reports something, it is presumed true.
00:14:26.760 If Breitbart.com reports something and it wasn't cited by the New York Times, they'll
00:14:31.560 say missing context, false information.
00:14:34.760 Although, to be fair, often, even if you do cite Politico, they'll still claim it was
00:14:39.900 fake news.
00:14:40.680 Here's one of my favorite examples of how prominent corporate news outlets are lying
00:14:45.800 to you.
00:14:46.660 In a story from 2017, Ukrainian effort to sabotage Trump backfires.
00:14:51.780 The story was written January 11th, 2017, and it opened by saying,
00:14:56.620 Ukrainian government officials tried to help Hillary Clinton and undermine Trump by publicly
00:15:01.600 questioning his fitness for office.
00:15:03.660 They also disseminated documents implicating a top Trump aide in corruption and suggested
00:15:08.200 they were investigating the matter only to back away after the election.
00:15:11.920 And they helped Clinton's allies research damaging information on Trump and his advisors,
00:15:16.140 a Politico investigation found.
00:15:17.720 And guess what?
00:15:19.540 That story is still publicly available today without fact check, without correction.
00:15:24.960 So we can just assume Politico was telling the truth, right?
00:15:29.180 Maybe not.
00:15:30.000 In a subsequent article for Politico, they wrote how a Russian disinfo op got Trump impeached.
00:15:36.620 The Kremlin may have been laying the groundwork for blaming Ukraine for 2016 as early as 2015.
00:15:41.820 January 22nd, 2020, by Natasha Bertrand.
00:15:45.600 They wrote,
00:15:46.060 Three weeks after the election day in 2016, the Kremlin officially floated a theory
00:15:50.480 that would ultimately lead to only the third presidential impeachment in U.S. history.
00:15:55.600 Ukraine seriously complicated the work of Trump's election by planting information
00:15:59.020 aimed at damaging his campaign chairman, Paul Manafort.
00:16:02.240 A spokeswoman for Russia's foreign ministry told reporters on November 30th, 2016,
00:16:06.820 accusing the Ukrainian government of scheming to help elect Hillary Clinton.
00:16:10.880 President-elect Donald Trump by this time was busy staffing up his incoming administration
00:16:14.120 and some of his top advisors, including his son-in-law Jared Kushner
00:16:17.000 and incoming national security advisor Michael Flynn,
00:16:19.460 were making overtures to Russia's ambassador
00:16:21.380 in hopes of establishing a diplomatic back channel to Moscow.
00:16:24.340 Russian officials offered no evidence on that day or any other day
00:16:27.160 that it was really Kiev, not Moscow, that meddled in the 2016 election.
00:16:31.280 Nor have U.S. intelligence agencies backed off on their collective finding
00:16:34.220 that the Kremlin orchestrated a major effort to help Trump win office.
00:16:37.360 I don't care what your opinion is on Russian interference.
00:16:40.240 My question for you, or I should say the facts as presented,
00:16:42.840 how can Politico simultaneously have two stories live right now on their website,
00:16:48.700 one saying that Politico found they did this,
00:16:52.260 and another story saying actually it was Russian disinformation?
00:16:55.060 Pick one.
00:16:55.900 The reality is fact checkers simply decide which one they want to be true at what time.
00:17:02.500 So it's rather difficult, isn't it?
00:17:03.820 The truth is the corporate press has a narrative.
00:17:06.680 Individuals who work for these platforms, work for these outlets,
00:17:11.340 know that there are editorial mandates and there are certain things that they can or cannot report.
00:17:16.840 Famously, Max Kaiser, who had a BBC show, posted he left because everything that he was going to talk about
00:17:23.040 had to be vetted by the government.
00:17:25.780 Well, of course, the BBC is state-sanctioned, right?
00:17:28.180 So how do you figure out what is actually true?
00:17:31.900 I think the reality is you can't.
00:17:35.140 Some people are going to believe insane things no matter what.
00:17:38.460 They're going to think the moon is made of cheese or that extradimensional beings are coming to Earth
00:17:42.620 to influence our politicians.
00:17:44.080 I don't know.
00:17:44.540 Maybe it's true.
00:17:45.540 What can I say?
00:17:46.480 Certainly don't think the moon is made of cheese,
00:17:48.100 and I don't got any evidence about extradimensional beings,
00:17:49.820 but people are going to believe what they think makes the most sense.
00:17:53.360 Perhaps the best thing we can do is advocate for a robust, meritocratic, independent media
00:17:59.960 so that those who actually do the work and can prove what they say rise to the top.
00:18:06.240 I firmly believe that if you're a news outlet and you lie all the time,
00:18:11.020 people are going to stop watching.
00:18:12.620 They're going to stop reading.
00:18:13.760 I do think some people will probably still watch fake news outlets and still read them,
00:18:18.780 but most people will try to find something that makes more sense.
00:18:22.380 Hence, CNN, MSNBC, their ratings are gone.
00:18:27.000 Some of these big news platforms are laying off their staff in droves because they are untrustworthy.
00:18:34.600 And at the same time, I can shout out TimCast.
00:18:37.940 We've been growing quite well.
00:18:40.180 As more and more people come to watch our shows, check out what we have to say
00:18:43.460 because we try our best, though we are often wrong.
00:18:47.460 We try our best to crack through the fake news and actually inform you on what's happening.
00:18:53.960 Now, the corporate press is going to tell you that you're morally wrong.
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00:19:07.740 Learn more at td.com slash low-rate card.
00:19:11.360 TD, ready for you.
00:19:13.340 Half the time when you have an opinion, ignore it.
00:19:15.740 Feel the way you feel.
00:19:17.160 Think the way you think.
00:19:18.180 We certainly don't get everything right all the time.
00:19:20.020 But the truth is, the fact-checkers were biased.
00:19:23.400 The machine was obviously biased.
00:19:25.900 And it was for political advantages, largely, of the Democrats.
00:19:30.040 So we'll wrap it up there.
00:19:32.260 Make sure to smash that like button. 0.99
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00:19:40.300 Welcome to the Culture World, ladies and gentlemen.
00:19:41.900 You can follow me on X and Instagram at TimCast.
00:19:45.080 Thanks for hanging out.
00:19:46.120 And we will see you all in the next video.
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00:20:01.340 With a low annual interest rate, the TD low-rate Visa card can help find some balance.
00:20:07.280 Learn more at td.com slash low-rate card.
00:20:10.920 TD, ready for you.