The Culture War - Tim Pool - Debating Trump's Deportation of Illegal Aliens

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00:00:59.220 Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to the Culture War Debates Podcast Live.

00:01:09.900 This is our first pilot.

00:01:11.660 We've got a live studio audience for everybody watching at home.

00:01:14.600 We're going to be bringing them up.

00:01:16.000 I encourage heckling, booing, and jeering,

00:01:19.660 which is probably bad news for our friend Pisco.

00:01:22.760 But it's going to be fun.

00:01:25.380 But we do have some serious issues to debate.

00:01:28.200 And the question of today is,

00:01:31.180 was the deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia just or unjust?

00:01:36.380 And should the Trump administration bring him back to this country?

00:01:40.300 And with that being said,

00:01:41.480 I would like to throw it first to the gentleman to my right.

00:01:44.420 Would you like to introduce yourself?

00:01:45.420 Yeah, sure.

00:01:45.800 So I'm Pisco.

00:01:46.600 I'm a lawyer.

00:01:47.160 I argue on the internet from a left-wing perspective.

00:01:50.100 And I think it's obvious that it was unjust.

00:01:52.080 It was illegal.

00:01:53.380 All right?

00:01:53.700 One of the big problems that conservatives cite with immigration

00:01:56.660 is the fact that it's illegal in the first place.

00:01:59.560 Okay?

00:01:59.900 So if you have a problem with illegal immigration on the basis of its illegality,

00:02:05.260 surely you should have a problem with deporting people illegally.

00:02:09.560 Unless you think it was the right thing to do to break the law.

00:02:13.460 Do you think it was the right thing to do to break the law?

00:02:15.580 Ask the audience right now.

00:02:17.860 So that's just a collective...

00:02:19.520 I want everyone to notice.

00:02:20.980 You all said you're fine when Trump breaks the law.

00:02:23.960 He admits that he broke the law.

00:02:26.020 And you're cool with it.

00:02:27.500 And don't...

00:02:28.800 Well, they admit that it was against the law to do so.

00:02:32.660 And they promised...

00:02:34.280 And they promised they're going to do it to U.S. citizens too.

00:02:38.460 You think he's just joking.

00:02:39.480 You think it won't affect you.

00:02:40.460 They've already arrested U.S. citizens, you know, for 10 days without due process.

00:02:43.720 They're lying about where he was near the border.

00:02:45.860 They've deported U.S. children who have cancer.

00:02:49.220 So don't think this won't affect you.

00:02:51.280 And notice what you all just did.

00:02:52.360 You all just said, yeah, it's cool.

00:02:53.820 Yeah, it's just for someone to be deported illegally.

00:02:58.560 Deported illegally.

00:03:00.000 All right.

00:03:00.360 So basically, just to finish off, if you're willing to say that, you're willing to say

00:03:06.020 that you want Trump to be a king, that you want him to be a tyrannical fascist, and I

00:03:10.440 would ask you to look yourself in the mirror and really, you know, take a hard look.

00:03:13.920 Is that what you want this country to be?

00:03:15.220 For 24 hours!

00:03:16.700 For 24 hours, yes!

00:03:18.240 We also have, with his opening statement and introduction, this gentleman here!

00:03:23.000 Yeah.

00:03:24.160 Nice to see you all, and Will Chamberlain, Senior Counsel at the Article 3 Project.

00:03:27.900 All right!

00:03:28.380 So, I think there are, you know, three core reasons that the outcome here is substantively

00:03:33.000 just.

00:03:33.940 The first is that, had the Trump administration gone through the normal process to lift a withholding

00:03:39.140 of removal, this guy would have been removed 100% of the time for two core reasons.

00:03:44.000 First, he was found to be a member of MS-13 in earlier court proceedings.

00:03:48.840 Once that finding was found and upheld on appeal, he would be a stop from challenging that.

00:03:53.820 Now that Trump has designated the guy, as MS-13 rather, to be a foreign terrorist organization,

00:03:58.440 he's not eligible for withholding of removal anymore, so he'd simply have lost no matter what.

00:04:02.740 And the second reason is that, in the interim, between the time he got this withholding

00:04:07.740 of removal, and now, the 18th Street gang, which supposedly threatened his mother's papusa

00:04:12.800 shop, a preposterous story from the outset, that 18th Street gang is no longer effective

00:04:18.700 in El Salvador, which was the basis for his supposed fear of persecution, which is why

00:04:23.400 the withholding of removal was granted in the first place.

00:04:26.060 So, he wouldn't, so the outcome wouldn't have changed.

00:04:28.500 This is what we would call, you know, to analogize, harmless error.

00:04:32.100 The second reason it's substantively just is because the guy's a wife-beating MS-13 gangbanger.

00:04:36.560 Yeah!

00:04:37.740 And who exploited our laws for 14 years.

00:04:40.800 And in fact, you know, the more that comes out about the guy, you're realizing, like,

00:04:45.580 just what kind of person he is, threatening his wife and children, telling them that, like,

00:04:50.120 you can't leave me because I'll kill you.

00:04:51.800 Funny thing, I was reading a book about MS-13, and a different MS-13 gangbanger did

00:04:55.340 the same thing about a girlfriend he was dating.

00:04:58.540 There's this sort of underlying entitlement.

00:05:00.120 But, you know, substantively, just obviously a very bad dude, a human trafficker, the kind

00:05:06.020 of person who drives people, you know, from Texas to Maryland who don't have any luggage.

00:05:11.820 Do you think those people have free will?

00:05:13.740 No.

00:05:14.180 Those are captives.

00:05:15.480 And, you know, we can get more into that later.

00:05:17.820 And we will.

00:05:18.620 There's one more man joining us tonight to make sure that there's a little bit of chaos

00:05:22.120 and humor.

00:05:22.600 Yes.

00:05:23.920 Yeah.

00:05:24.460 That's what I like.

00:05:26.360 Well, it's primetime 99.

00:05:28.220 And I just want to say, you know, Pisco, you are very smart, but you're still a libtard.

00:05:32.560 And, but no, I agree.

00:05:34.820 I actually agree with you on this because this is, whether it was unjust or not, we got the

00:05:39.840 outcome that we want.

00:05:40.720 His big booty Latina is staying in the country.

00:05:43.140 And we need to do this as, you know, a lesson to these other gangbangers and Trenday Aruga

00:05:48.760 adjacent people that if you come to our country and, you know, you bring your big booty Latina,

00:05:53.780 we're going to kick your ass out and keep her.

00:05:55.620 So I think.

00:05:56.660 Alex, Alex, the Latina in question is a U.S. citizen.

00:05:59.680 I know, but still, she's still a big booty Latina.

00:06:01.580 I'm saying it doesn't matter.

00:06:02.720 I mean, if the goal is to protect the U.S. citizen Latina from the predations of the

00:06:07.180 Madness 13 gangbangers.

00:06:08.120 I'm saying protect even illegal or legal big booty Latinas.

00:06:11.260 They carry the same weight in my eyes.

00:06:12.960 So I guess not apparently to you.

00:06:14.340 So I'm saying, yeah, she's a legal big booty Latina, but he learned his lesson.

00:06:17.420 They don't get to go back to El Salvador or wherever you get kicked off to.

00:06:21.520 And that's exactly why Alex is here.

00:06:23.280 Yes.

00:06:23.620 But we are going to be bringing up members of the audience.

00:06:26.340 People have submitted who want to join this debate and give you guys a chance to have

00:06:29.400 your thoughts heard on this matter.

00:06:31.800 But I suppose the question to kick it off simply to either of you who wants to start

00:06:36.040 was the deportation just or unjust?

00:06:40.720 It was unjust.

00:06:41.900 It was illegal.

00:06:43.760 Do you think that.

00:06:44.520 Those aren't synonyms.

00:06:45.840 Those aren't.

00:06:46.440 I understand that.

00:06:47.840 But in this context, do you think it was just for the Trump administration to do an

00:06:52.240 illegal deportation?

00:06:53.320 Yes or no?

00:06:54.300 I mean, in these circumstances, it was the outcome was just.

00:06:58.840 I'm asking if the deportation, if you think.

00:07:00.500 I mean, it was mistaken.

00:07:01.480 So they conceded that it's a mistake, right?

00:07:03.660 So was it just to do a mistaken illegal deportation?

00:07:06.420 I mean, the actual substantive outcome here is a just outcome.

00:07:09.300 It's like, I don't want the administration.

00:07:10.660 Whether the outcome was just or not, is the action, the mistaken, in your words, mistaken,

00:07:14.940 illegal deportation just or not?

00:07:17.200 It's mildly unjust.

00:07:18.280 I actually look at it.

00:07:18.580 So you actually agree.

00:07:19.580 There's a reason I had the resolution being put out.

00:07:21.200 I actually agree that it was unjust, to be clear.

00:07:23.920 Everyone here agrees it was unjust?

00:07:25.400 No.

00:07:25.960 Okay.

00:07:26.760 So, Tim, do you think that the deportation was just to do an illegal action?

00:07:31.200 See, what you're doing right there is, I'm just going to say, that's not debating to load

00:07:35.540 the question with, I presume it was illegal first, now answer.

00:07:39.560 Do you agree it was illegal?

00:07:40.500 When did you start beating your wife?

00:07:42.240 Well, do you agree it was illegal?

00:07:43.400 What's loaded about that?

00:07:44.480 So the issue is, is it a crime to make a mistake?

00:07:47.840 Not a crime.

00:07:48.480 It was illegal.

00:07:49.300 Was it illegal, yes or no?

00:07:51.720 No.

00:07:52.920 Nine justices on the Supreme Court unanimously, Will and I, both lawyers, will tell you it

00:07:57.060 was illegal.

00:07:57.640 Will, it was obviously illegal.

00:07:58.720 It was an illegal deportation.

00:08:00.160 It was an illegal deportation.

00:08:01.040 So hold on.

00:08:02.680 You're saying that it was illegal because the Supreme Court said it was?

00:08:05.120 No.

00:08:05.700 It's emphatically the providence and duty of the judicial department to say what the

00:08:08.660 law is.

00:08:09.080 That's Mark Marbury.

00:08:09.860 Does the Alien Enemies Act supersede?

00:08:11.720 He wasn't sued under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:08:13.580 Or wasn't deported under the Alien Enemies Act.

00:08:15.040 Stephen Miller claims he was.

00:08:16.580 No, he absolutely wasn't.

00:08:17.600 He's not a Venezuelan.

00:08:18.920 The proclamation for the Alien Enemies Act only applies to Venezuelans.

00:08:21.840 How is he born?

00:08:23.040 Is that true?

00:08:24.440 Yes, that's true.

00:08:26.040 Say again?

00:08:26.600 Does the Alien Enemies Act apply to Al-Savidans?

00:08:28.540 The proclamation issued by the president only to Trenderawa members who are Venezuelans, by

00:08:32.980 its terms, the proclamation by its terms, even assuming it were legal, would not apply

00:08:36.480 to him.

00:08:36.780 Yeah, this is not an Alien Enemies Act question.

00:08:38.920 So the question is, do you agree it was illegal?

00:08:41.420 If the argument is the Supreme Court said it was illegal and that's your basis for it,

00:08:45.140 then I agree with you, yes.

00:08:46.180 Okay.

00:08:46.780 Do you agree with the president or the executive department?

00:08:50.020 The thing is, everybody agrees it's illegal.

00:08:51.680 He just, wait, just to be clear.

00:08:53.220 No, I believe it was administrative error.

00:08:54.760 And the issue is we're talking about the semantics of what it means to be illegal, right?

00:08:59.060 So is it illegal to smoke pot?

00:09:01.000 Yes.

00:09:01.460 Is it unjust?

00:09:02.100 No.

00:09:02.280 People can smoke pot if they fucking want to smoke pot.

00:09:03.100 Okay, so that's why I'm asking you, first, if it's illegal, now you agree it is a legal

00:09:06.540 affair, right?

00:09:08.320 In the context of which, so the first thing I was trying to do was understand your view

00:09:12.440 and how you're viewing what illegal means.

00:09:15.440 You're saying, as a subject of law, as the Supreme Court has ruled it, we all agree the Supreme

00:09:19.040 Court did in fact say it was illegal.

00:09:20.240 Correct.

00:09:21.140 Agreed.

00:09:21.460 Okay, so if it's the case that you think that this deportation was illegal, do you think

00:09:26.540 it was just for the Trump administration to do an illegal deportation?

00:09:29.640 Yes.

00:09:30.040 Okay.

00:09:30.600 Just like I think it's just for someone to smoke pot.

00:09:33.660 Okay, so if they did the same thing to a U.S. citizen, though, obviously you'd think

00:09:37.800 it's unjust.

00:09:38.520 Yes.

00:09:39.000 Okay.

00:09:39.480 If they killed Kilmar Abrego Garcia, would you think it's unjust?

00:09:42.880 Yes.

00:09:43.480 Why's that?

00:09:45.420 Killing people is one of the worst crimes, in fact.

00:09:49.020 Okay, so...

00:09:50.380 Obama killed four American citizens.

00:09:53.320 We fact-checked this.

00:09:53.800 Wait, but you thought that was wrong, right?

00:09:55.820 Absolutely.

00:09:56.460 So then why don't...

00:09:57.080 So if it's the case that you thought that was wrong, wouldn't it be wrong, for example,

00:10:00.280 to put Kilmar Abrego Garcia in prison for the rest of his life without an opportunity to

00:10:04.340 like have a case?

00:10:04.900 He's not U.S. citizen!

00:10:05.460 No.

00:10:06.040 No.

00:10:06.960 Okay.

00:10:07.460 So let me try this real quick.

00:10:09.100 You're trying to equate, say, Barack Obama, right?

00:10:13.920 He extrajudicially assassinated a 16-year-old kid without charge or trial.

00:10:18.540 I mean, if a dude cracks a grandma over there with a baseball bat and kills her, I say lock

00:10:23.100 that guy up.

00:10:24.040 If a guy accidentally runs a woman over, then we say there could be negligent homicide.

00:10:29.460 There's degrees of whether or not the crime is bad.

00:10:32.120 Is it justice in some circumstances and not when a crime is...

00:10:34.940 Not all crimes are solved in the same way.

00:10:37.400 I'm not alleging that it's a crime.

00:10:38.400 They not all rise to the same level of retaliation or retribution.

00:10:40.360 I'm not alleging that it's a crime.

00:10:41.580 I'm saying it's illegal, and the Supreme Court found that.

00:10:43.660 And right now, what we have...

00:10:45.160 This is what the Trump cult does to you.

00:10:46.920 This is what the Trump cult does to you.

00:10:48.680 What's with the ad hominem?

00:10:49.940 So this is what it does to you.

00:10:51.300 You are defending an illegal deportation of a human being who has the right to have his case

00:10:57.660 heard.

00:10:58.260 The basic essence of due process.

00:10:59.600 The funny thing is he actually...

00:11:00.960 If it's denied of anybody, it will be denied of you in the course of time.

00:11:04.460 No, it won't.

00:11:05.500 He's not a citizen.

00:11:06.000 He's not a citizen.

00:11:07.040 He's not a citizen.

00:11:07.720 So if you're deported...

00:11:08.760 And he was previously adjudicated as an MS-13 gang member.

00:11:11.240 That's false.

00:11:12.260 And you brought it to him.

00:11:13.120 No, it's not.

00:11:13.880 There was a finding that he was an MS-13.

00:11:16.080 No, so you brought up collateral stopple, didn't you?

00:11:18.580 Yeah.

00:11:19.100 So he'll be stopped from challenging him.

00:11:20.980 So of course not.

00:11:22.200 So, of course not.

00:11:23.760 Gang members deported.

00:11:25.080 What are you talking about?

00:11:26.200 I know because I have to say, a lot of these lawyers file shipwrecked, and they get...

00:11:29.800 Shipwrecked is a lawyer, and it's garbage.

00:11:32.580 And the truth is, there is no collateral stopple here.

00:11:35.460 What is the finding that the bond court hearing made?

00:11:38.380 Let me ask you a question.

00:11:39.460 Let me ask you a question.

00:11:41.100 I have a question.

00:11:41.560 If someone does something illegal, is that just or unjust?

00:11:46.280 It's sometimes unjust, sometimes just.

00:11:48.380 It depends.

00:11:49.020 If someone does something illegal, should they always be held under...

00:11:52.220 No.

00:11:52.860 No.

00:11:53.740 Okay, so we agree that the real question here is not whether it's just or unjust, whether

00:11:58.060 we think the penalty should be severe or not.

00:12:01.100 No, no.

00:12:01.380 So I agree.

00:12:02.140 Not all illegal things are unjust.

00:12:04.100 I'm asking, in this case, is this illegal action by the Trump administration just or unjust?

00:12:09.980 And you said it was just for the Trump administration to do an illegal deportation.

00:12:14.140 Now, see, see, and I'm going to ask you why.

00:12:15.960 I'm going to ask you why.

00:12:17.020 Right.

00:12:17.200 Let me answer that.

00:12:18.640 So, the first thing I got to say is, you keep loading this as though illegal is the pretext

00:12:23.100 by which something would be just or unjust, which is why I asked you, is if something

00:12:26.780 is illegal...

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00:13:25.880 Beautiful Anonymous.

00:13:26.620 It can be, it depends.

00:13:29.440 Then you don't need to say, you know, am I okay, why am I okay with Trump doing something

00:13:35.100 illegal?

00:13:35.720 The question is the deportation.

00:13:36.620 No, I do need it because I think as a standard, right, there's a threshold here that in the

00:13:40.880 main, when the government does something illegal, we're going to presume it's unjust unless you

00:13:46.700 can reach some threshold.

00:13:48.140 Well, think about it, right?

00:13:48.800 So if the, this can't just be a game of, we let the government do whatever we want to

00:13:53.540 people we don't like.

00:13:54.760 We're fearful of the government wielding power in the main because of structural reasons.

00:13:59.020 There's a reason, there's a reason, there's a, there's a reason, for example, you believe

00:14:02.700 that someone who's accused, for example, of should be given a trial, correct?

00:14:07.440 Yes.

00:14:07.920 Okay.

00:14:08.180 Why is it that, why do you think that someone who's so horrific, and if everyone agrees

00:14:13.400 that this person, why should we give them a trial?

00:14:16.160 An American citizen gets a trial.

00:14:17.720 What about an illegal alien?

00:14:18.960 They don't.

00:14:19.600 So you don't think, so just to be clear, this is where we're at now.

00:14:22.280 You don't think that crimes that are committed in this country by illegal immigrants, that

00:14:27.840 they should have trials for those crimes?

00:14:29.680 The penalty, and, no, they, so, wait, wait, wait, to be honest, we do have trials for

00:14:34.580 illegal immigrants.

00:14:34.960 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:14:35.960 So, so, the penalty for an illegal immigrant typically is, for most, to cross within two

00:14:43.820 years is expedited removal.

00:14:45.680 That means their due process is, an immigration officer will determine whether or not they're

00:14:49.360 here legally or illegally.

00:14:50.240 That's not what we're talking about, we're talking about crimes.

00:14:51.520 We're talking about crimes.

00:14:52.180 And, and, yeah, so, so when we get someone here who, like, murders somebody, why are we

00:14:56.980 going to spend taxpayer dollars when the outcome is going to be, you get sent out of the country

00:15:00.680 no matter what happens.

00:15:01.680 Well, Tim, Tim, so, actually, we, a lot of times, I, well, we deal with this, we want

00:15:06.460 them to be prosecuted so that they actually face a punishment instead of getting deported.

00:15:10.180 So that is, we actually spend a lot of taxpayer resources on prosecuting illegal immigrants,

00:15:14.260 at least in Texas.

00:15:14.860 Not, so, so, so, but, like, I just want to, I want to dwell here for a second.

00:15:19.940 The Constitution says that persons in this country get trials if they are accused of a crime

00:15:26.180 before they're punished.

00:15:27.280 No, it, it does not say that.

00:15:29.960 You can read the Constitution.

00:15:31.260 Well, let's, let's, let's clarify the fact.

00:15:32.080 Does it say citizens or persons?

00:15:33.560 So, so, so, right, so, for example, there's different parts of the...

00:15:36.680 Let me ask you this, though.

00:15:37.680 In the case of Abrego Garcia, do you think that that is a sweeping policy that's being

00:15:41.680 used to deport mass amount of people, or is this a one...

00:15:44.240 That what is a sweeping policy?

00:15:45.320 Well, I'm just saying the pretext that we use to deport Abrego Garcia, I'm saying, do you

00:15:49.240 think that that is being used right now to, to deport a massive amount of people, or is

00:15:53.740 this an isolated incident, in your opinion?

00:15:55.300 I don't think it's an isolated incident.

00:15:56.380 I don't think it's relevant to the question presented, which has to do with this...

00:15:58.660 Well, kind of, but I will answer it.

00:15:59.800 Well, I'm just saying, you know, a few, when you make an omelet, a few eggs are going to

00:16:03.240 get, you know, cracked.

00:16:04.280 I'm just saying there are going to, it sucks how it is...

00:16:05.760 Yeah, but then just bite the bullet and say, yes, it was unjust.

00:16:07.720 Of course it was unjust.

00:16:08.420 We don't want the government in the main, unless there's exceedingly, exceedingly, like,

00:16:12.100 crazy circumstances to violate the Constitution, right?

00:16:15.900 Let me just get real quick, but do you think it's going to be used in a massive way?

00:16:20.100 It already is.

00:16:21.100 It already is.

00:16:21.720 But who else?

00:16:22.300 What other examples do we have?

00:16:23.520 I know you used to talk about the cancer girl, but they actually were allowed to stay.

00:16:26.720 So when leftists say that they were forced to leave, they chose to go with their family.

00:16:30.800 They were 100% allowed to stay in America.

00:16:33.020 So we didn't deport a cancer person.

00:16:34.600 If you guys are stuck in your echo chambers, and again, I think that there's some of that

00:16:38.280 going on here.

00:16:38.780 Don't insult the audience like that.

00:16:40.100 Give me a break.

00:16:40.700 So if it's that case, then you wouldn't know, for example, that this U.S. citizen, there's

00:16:44.900 a parent here.

00:16:45.780 There's an opportunity that people have basic due process rights to see if, like, I don't

00:16:48.940 know, an aunt wants to care for the U.S. citizen, or another parent has parental rights

00:16:52.700 and the right to have custody over the parent or the child.

00:16:55.940 In the instance you're referring to, the mother requested the child.

00:16:58.460 So I don't know which case, there are multiple cases of U.S. citizen deportation.

00:17:01.720 One of which the mother denies that that's the outcome that she wanted.

00:17:06.260 But regardless, the policy that we're talking about is, with respect to people who are not

00:17:11.800 citizens here, and you asked if it's like a mass policy, they're already, by the Supreme

00:17:15.720 Court, again, unanimously saying that these people are entitled to due process.

00:17:19.340 You guys don't think that.

00:17:20.760 You guys don't think that there should be due process for people.

00:17:22.860 No, no, no, I don't think that's okay.

00:17:24.600 Everyone thinks they're entitled to due process.

00:17:26.820 The question is what process this is due, and it's extraordinarily limited in the context

00:17:31.000 of legal immigration.

00:17:31.820 But Tim just said, even in the context of criminal, so Tim just said, Tim just said, Tim

00:17:37.220 just said, in the context of a criminal indictment, that there should not be trials for people

00:17:42.200 who are here illegally.

00:17:42.940 You don't agree with that.

00:17:43.800 No, I don't.

00:17:44.640 I don't agree with that.

00:17:45.980 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:17:47.000 This is a really good example for media literacy.

00:17:49.540 What he did is he is falsely framing the arguments, redirecting it.

00:17:53.980 What I'm saying is, there is no trial required for a crime committed by an illegal immigrant

00:17:58.900 because they'll get an expedited removal before a trial can take place.

00:18:01.460 You're conflating an immigration hearing which is civil, and I agree, there's no, guys, don't

00:18:05.800 get confused, all right?

00:18:06.760 I'm going to teach you something.

00:18:07.400 I'm not conflating anything.

00:18:08.240 So immigration law and a removal proceeding is not a criminal matter, okay?

00:18:12.120 That's different than the criminal proceeding.

00:18:13.700 Yes, I agree.

00:18:14.480 You don't need trials.

00:18:15.640 That's why J.D. Vance is full of shit when he says that we need trials.

00:18:18.500 I've got to stop you, I've got to stop you.

00:18:19.660 You are actually making a mistake.

00:18:21.760 I am aware you are asking for a criminal trial for, let's say, an illegal immigrant

00:18:25.700 who committed a murder.

00:18:27.040 I am arguing that we will deport that person back to their home country, and then we're

00:18:31.940 not going to hold a trial for them after the fact.

00:18:34.060 So you're going to let, you're going to take a murderer who committed a crime in this country,

00:18:38.680 you're not going to subject him to punishment in this country, and you're going to send

00:18:41.860 the murderer back to El Salvador just so he can cross the border again and murder someone?

00:18:45.380 Well, that's why Trump has Seacott, doesn't he?

00:18:47.060 Well, hang on, that wasn't embedded in your hypothetical there, that he would go to Seacott.

00:18:51.380 You presented information to the argument that was not previously included in it.

00:18:55.760 Which was what?

00:18:56.360 The argument is, an illegal immigrant here gets deported first.

00:19:01.260 Before he goes to trial for murder?

00:19:02.740 Come on, guys.

00:19:03.280 How do you have a criminal trial for someone who's not in the country?

00:19:05.600 Wait, so he, so we do, this is high priority for our government to spend money on trials

00:19:11.620 protecting U.S. citizens, and it's one of the, you know, our common things as a term.

00:19:15.240 Oh, my, actually, actually, hold on, let me give a hypothetical to Tim, real quick though,

00:19:19.360 Tim, this is where I think you're wrong, I'm sorry.

00:19:21.280 So, would you have rather had Laken Riley's murder just deported, or are you happy that

00:19:26.620 they had a trial and got convicted?

00:19:28.340 Deported.

00:19:29.160 That's crazy.

00:19:29.720 So you trust, you trust this El Salvadorian guy?

00:19:32.760 Wait, wait, just be clear, you trust, you trust El Salvador to keep this guy in jail?

00:19:36.620 This guy committed a crime on U.S. soil, and you trust, you trust El Salvador?

00:19:40.780 You trust El Salvador?

00:19:42.380 Yeah, yeah, here, here, here's the problem, here's the problem, what, what happens if Bukele

00:19:47.460 decides this guy goes free?

00:19:48.460 What happens if they overthrow Bukele?

00:19:49.960 It's, so, I got it, I got it, guys, I figured it out.

00:19:53.420 We secure our border.

00:19:57.680 So, so in this country, in this country, there's justice for crimes, and what you're talking

00:20:02.100 about is injustice, it's exped, it's for the purposes of expediting something, but it's

00:20:06.040 not, it's not true justice.

00:20:07.080 For example, I, I actually disagree with you, I think, I think what you're saying isn't

00:20:10.820 justice, because you're, what you are doing is creating a defense for people who have

00:20:15.160 no right to be here in the first place, so that taxpayers have to spend money on someone

00:20:18.760 who's not going to be here after this, and if you look at the case of Abrego Garcia, this

00:20:23.980 guy, what was the due process that was failed?

00:20:26.940 He was supposed to get what's called a U.S.C.I.S.

00:20:29.200 official interview.

00:20:30.200 False.

00:20:30.580 To make it, this is under the law, this is actually the kind of law.

00:20:32.360 You're wrong.

00:20:32.620 Well, okay, well, it's in the law.

00:20:34.660 The 8 CFR.

00:20:35.540 I don't have my phone on me.

00:20:36.440 So, so it's 8 CFR 2, uh, 2-4 sub 08.

00:20:40.360 The withholding of deportation law states that if an individual receives a U.S.C.I.S.

00:20:43.000 interview that determines the circumstances of their home country has changed, they can

00:20:46.800 be deported withholding is void.

00:20:47.960 The 8 CFR 224, look it up.

00:20:49.560 So, you go to sub F on that statute, or it's a, it's a regulation.

00:20:54.920 It is not the providence of U.S.C.I.S.

00:20:56.640 to determine whether someone's going to be, you know, taken away.

00:20:59.300 You have to go back to the immigration judge.

00:21:00.440 Yeah, you have to go to I.J.

00:21:01.260 Judge.

00:21:01.420 You have to go to the immigration judge.

00:21:02.260 It wouldn't, it would be immaterial.

00:21:03.380 No, no, no, pull up the law on withholding of deportation, which explicitly states that

00:21:06.380 a U.S.C.I.S. interview can determine that the circumstance of their home country has changed.

00:21:10.900 I don't have my phone on me.

00:21:11.560 That's affirmatively what we're talking, so this is the problem.

00:21:14.000 It's, this is defensive relief.

00:21:15.920 And so, in the immigration context, you can apply affirmatively to U.S.C.I.S., or you

00:21:19.620 can be put before an EOIR judge.

00:21:21.000 Then I'll say this, I concede.

00:21:22.940 Let's bring him back, and the first thing that happens when he walks on the door, they

00:21:25.480 turn it back around.

00:21:25.780 So, I just want to be sure, you concede that it was unjust and it should be brought back

00:21:28.680 and then put in removal changes?

00:21:29.260 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:21:29.960 stop playing games.

00:21:30.440 That's what you just said.

00:21:31.640 Stop playing games.

00:21:33.420 I am saying for the sake of arguments, I will no contest your argument and say, the end

00:21:38.920 That's pussy shit.

00:21:40.020 Don't no contest an argument.

00:21:41.040 I think it's fair.

00:21:43.420 That's you engaging in semantics to change the arguments I make.

00:21:46.180 That's pussy shit.

00:21:46.960 Why don't you actually engage with the argument?

00:21:49.200 Why don't you actually engage with the argument and not say, oh, I don't know, because I'm

00:21:51.360 fucking backed into a corner.

00:21:52.400 Now I'm just going to say, I don't really care.

00:21:53.880 What this guy does is he plays semantic games with the, with the ideas being presented

00:22:01.700 so that he can try and finagle out of when he's backed into a corner.

00:22:05.640 So how am I backed into, so I, I understand the proposition to be, is the deportation unjust

00:22:10.240 and, wait, wait, wait, wait, I understand the proposition to be.

00:22:12.540 The end result of Abrega Garcia's return to this country is immediate expedited removal.

00:22:17.820 So I, I.

00:22:18.400 What the fuck is the point?

00:22:19.620 So, so, so, so I heard you.

00:22:20.920 Waste our fucking time.

00:22:21.420 So, so, so I just want to be clear.

00:22:22.400 I understood the proposition.

00:22:24.100 I understood the proposition that you laid, I listened very carefully.

00:22:26.300 You said, is it just and should it be brought back?

00:22:29.080 And you just said, okay, I guess it should be, you know, it was unjust.

00:22:32.240 It should be brought back.

00:22:33.860 The point is, it's called a moot point when you're arguing something that's immaterial

00:22:38.880 to the end result of what we're trying to accomplish.

00:22:40.400 The debate proposition is a moot point.

00:22:42.040 I just want to hear you say that.

00:22:43.020 You're playing semantic games again.

00:22:44.880 You're playing semantic games again.

00:22:46.120 I also heard everyone else said, this is debate.

00:22:47.800 Come to the arena debate.

00:22:48.760 You guys are coping.

00:22:49.900 You know you can.

00:22:50.300 We are debating.

00:22:51.180 Bite the bullet.

00:22:51.740 Bite the bullet.

00:22:52.500 Can I say something?

00:22:53.720 Can I say something?

00:22:54.400 Let's get Will.

00:22:54.880 Let's get Will.

00:22:54.980 I supposedly am debating here, right?

00:22:56.720 I don't even, I don't even remember that was supposed to happen.

00:22:58.920 Come on, Will.

00:22:59.280 Come on, Will.

00:22:59.980 The resolution was supposed to be.

00:23:00.860 All right, let him talk.

00:23:01.740 Let him talk.

00:23:02.180 The resolution was supposed to be, is the deportation profoundly unjust, right?

00:23:05.560 And there's a reason for that adverb, right?

00:23:08.260 It's because there is a mild injustice that happens whenever the law is not followed, right?

00:23:13.500 So, you know, unless there is like some dramatic reason to not follow the law in a particular

00:23:17.560 instance, there's usually a mild injustice.

00:23:20.020 I think that the more interesting, and the funny thing is the Trump administration has conceded

00:23:23.700 to this since the beginning of the filings, right?

00:23:25.660 The Trump administration conceded from the outset that this was administrative error, that they

00:23:29.440 should have gotten the withholding of removal lifted before they removed him to El Salvador.

00:23:32.880 I don't think that's the most interesting question, because it's a question that like

00:23:35.920 even the Trump administration agrees to, for the most part.

00:23:39.520 I think the question is, is this a profound injustice?

00:23:42.440 And I think the answer to that is obviously no, for the reasons I laid out at the beginning,

00:23:45.480 right?

00:23:45.940 And that I think, I'd like to actually like hear your argument for why this is a profound

00:23:49.920 injustice and not merely a mild.

00:23:51.340 And I want to make one little point though, Visco.

00:23:53.140 You know, when it comes to Abrego Garcia, and I personally think this is an isolated

00:23:57.300 incident, but even if you are right, I'll concede that I think, you know, I, ideologically,

00:24:01.860 even though you and I are different on this subject, I do feel like that he didn't get

00:24:04.420 his, you know, due process, but, and I had to debate this on college campuses, it is hard.

00:24:08.680 But in, in this instance with Abrego Garcia, I...

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00:25:34.820 I think it's isolated, and I don't think that it's a massive problem.

00:25:38.420 I mean, that's what I think about this, but I do concede.

00:25:41.520 They go entwine this question.

00:25:42.680 It's like, who really cares, right?

00:25:43.880 Who really cares?

00:25:44.300 One guy, whatever.

00:25:45.040 It's kind of like you're George Floyd.

00:25:46.400 They're making this guy to be like a hero, and it's one incident, and it's bad, but he's

00:25:49.760 not a hero, and he still beat his wife.

00:25:52.400 So it just kind of sucks that even though you are right in this instance, I don't want

00:25:56.600 to be like the left because they say that the means, the ends justify the means, and

00:26:00.000 I don't want to be like that.

00:26:00.780 I don't want to break the law to get the outcome that we want.

00:26:02.600 So I want to be clear.

00:26:03.340 I'm going to give you a hot take.

00:26:04.620 This is worse than the George Floyd situation.

00:26:06.600 This is worse than the George Floyd situation, and I'll tell you why.

00:26:10.340 Okay, wow.

00:26:11.500 One's in the chat.

00:26:12.800 One's in the chat.

00:26:13.980 I don't know from what perspective that could possibly be right.

00:26:16.720 It doesn't matter how you come down on George Floyd.

00:26:18.760 The valence of George Floyd is bigger on either side.

00:26:20.780 So I understand.

00:26:21.240 So I take the assumption.

00:26:22.520 Let him talk.

00:26:23.120 Let him talk, guys.

00:26:23.780 And I do believe that George Floyd was murdered.

00:26:26.020 I watched that entire trial.

00:26:27.600 I think it's clear that they're...

00:26:28.820 No, okay.

00:26:29.560 Go ahead.

00:26:29.800 But let's let him talk.

00:26:30.400 Yeah, no, you should listen to the pulmonary cardiologist, to his testimony.

00:26:35.480 Yeah, yeah.

00:26:36.620 Let him talk.

00:26:37.580 Let him talk.

00:26:38.260 Let's hear this.

00:26:38.760 Because he's about to make a good point.

00:26:40.120 I'm interested in this.

00:26:40.980 So this is why I do think that even though that there's a history of, you know, cop violence,

00:26:47.340 not just on black people, on people, you know, of all races, whatever, and it's a problem

00:26:51.400 in the United States, I think that it doesn't present the same kind of civilizational problems

00:26:56.920 that are presented by what the Trump administration is doing here.

00:26:58.740 What they're trying to do here is put people outside of the contours of U.S. law.

00:27:05.440 We have prisons in the United States.

00:27:07.720 We have prisons in the United States for the worst of the worst.

00:27:12.940 We spend money on it.

00:27:13.940 The reason why we need to send them to Cicat or to El Salvador is quite simply because

00:27:18.480 Trump doesn't want to be hemmed in by the law.

00:27:21.160 And that, when the president unites, when the strongest person in the country is saying

00:27:25.080 things like, for example, I want to do this to U.S. criminals.

00:27:28.740 I want to use it for U.S. citizens.

00:27:30.760 I believe him.

00:27:32.000 I believe that he wants to do that.

00:27:33.400 How about this, Obisco?

00:27:34.280 You and I both know Guantanamo Bay.

00:27:36.100 There are people that are being held there without due process.

00:27:38.500 We're not losing sleep over that.

00:27:39.920 I don't see the left.

00:27:40.800 And that was done by Obama.

00:27:42.660 Kept that when he said he campaigned, oh, I'm going to shut down Guantanamo Bay.

00:27:45.540 Yet he still needs people there.

00:27:46.100 He was wrong for it.

00:27:46.740 Derek Chauvin did nothing wrong, and he has held on justly.

00:27:50.340 That's wrong.

00:27:51.120 That's wrong.

00:27:52.360 That's wrong.

00:27:52.840 But let's just, I want to ask you guys, like, if Trump sends U.S. citizens

00:27:58.460 abroad to see caught, you would have a problem with that, right?

00:28:01.580 Absolutely.

00:28:02.060 Yes.

00:28:02.380 I don't know.

00:28:02.880 I don't know about that.

00:28:03.960 As a different form, instead of using a U.S. prison, I don't know why it's any different

00:28:07.500 than our private prison industry that's a scam.

00:28:09.600 So, I mean, to send them to a prison, they're both bad.

00:28:12.120 This is the danger.

00:28:12.440 Yeah.

00:28:12.840 This is the danger.

00:28:14.800 Trump is selling.

00:28:20.020 Trump is testing.

00:28:21.400 And we've got two minutes left, and then we're about to have, we're about to get into

00:28:24.140 the debate.

00:28:24.660 So, go ahead.

00:28:24.940 Trump is testing this theory, and he's telling you in advance he wants to apply it to U.S.

00:28:30.020 citizens.

00:28:30.340 And just like Obama, one of the things I respect about Tim Poole is he's aware of the kinds

00:28:36.040 of violations that occurred under Rumsfeld, under the neocons, under Trump, Barack Obama,

00:28:40.780 under Trump Term 1.

00:28:41.920 And that very same rationale that applied to Guantanamo Bay, that applied to the deprivations

00:28:46.820 of due process in, like, Abu Ghraib, surely that applies to Trump version 2.

00:28:51.920 And I don't see a kind of exceptional circumstance in this case that would justify breaking the law.

00:28:55.720 Well, before we go to the members, Will, do you want to take the last point?

00:29:01.500 Oh, yeah.

00:29:02.040 I mean, so, I think the argument that this is ultimately going to lead to U.S. citizens'

00:29:06.640 deportation is just a really bad, slippery slope argument.

00:29:08.920 I don't think that's true.

00:29:09.880 I think that there's so many other remedies that are available to U.S. citizens that it's

00:29:13.140 not going to happen.

00:29:15.260 I think that the...

00:29:16.480 You want to send U.S. citizens to say, God?

00:29:22.840 Who decides?

00:29:23.860 Who decides?

00:29:24.820 That's the question.

00:29:25.460 Do we just trust Trump and his, you know, Kash Patel to say who the terrorists are?

00:29:30.980 What if you are you?

00:29:32.180 With any sort of prison, I mean, there's levels of crime would decide.

00:29:35.820 But there's also levels of review, right?

00:29:37.760 There is levels of review.

00:29:38.820 One of the reasons why Tim, I think, in good faith is against the death penalty is he understands

00:29:42.960 the propensity for courts, yes, even courts with full review, to get shit wrong sometimes.

00:29:48.360 In this case, I think that you should be fearful of a purely executive discretion on who is a terrorist

00:29:54.300 sufficient to make a big hole in due process.

00:29:56.200 See, here's where I want to make one last point, right?

00:29:59.080 And this is why I think the slippery slope argument is bad.

00:30:01.860 It'd be one thing if the Trump administration was hiding that it had made this administrative

00:30:05.320 error from the beginning.

00:30:06.140 But from the outset, from the very first filing in court, from the first declaration, the Trump

00:30:10.720 administration was like, we made a mistake.

00:30:12.340 Like, it was an administrative error.

00:30:14.120 He should have had his withholding and removal lifted.

00:30:16.200 So, you know, he didn't fire the guy who made the declaration, right?

00:30:20.180 He made the, you know, he fired the attorney, but he didn't fire the...

00:30:22.000 The senator, the guy who admitted it, and they're on...

00:30:24.340 They suspended the attorney, but not the declaration.

00:30:25.880 And Stephen Miller is saying it was a mistake.

00:30:27.160 Stephen Miller's lying about the Supreme Court decision.

00:30:28.880 And you agree that Trump could get him back if you wanted to.

00:30:31.780 I mean, I think he could.

00:30:33.080 I just don't...

00:30:33.600 I think it's beyond the judicial power to order.

00:30:35.980 Whether it's beyond the judicial power to order, since you said it was unjust, why wouldn't

00:30:39.980 you want him to right the wrong that you acknowledged?

00:30:42.220 Here's how I would have him do that, right?

00:30:43.900 Like, and one of two ways, either a Zoom hearing or a hearing in the American embassy in San Salvador,

00:30:50.500 right?

00:30:51.220 You resolve the problem.

00:30:52.860 You resolve the problem by just having the hearing to lift the withholding of removal.

00:30:57.220 But the Supreme Court said facilitate his release in custody in El Salvador.

00:31:03.600 Yeah, they said that.

00:31:04.460 And it's like, I think they're acting on a rushed basis.

00:31:06.880 People have...

00:31:07.300 They haven't been very clear about what they mean by facilitate.

00:31:09.380 And others judge Zinnis, frankly.

00:31:11.240 So I think the solution here is, while they're litigating what exactly facilitate means in

00:31:17.260 this context, you just go ahead and handle the withholding of removal issue.

00:31:21.140 He's going to lose on it.

00:31:22.540 And he's not...

00:31:23.320 First of all, I just want to address that real quick, because I want to address the issues

00:31:26.340 of collateral estoppel and the issues in issue preclusion.

00:31:28.880 That's a legal term of art, but for the lawyers who are eventually going to watch this.

00:31:31.940 The bond hearing is only related to the issue of whether or not he's in the moment a danger

00:31:35.560 to the community.

00:31:36.000 It's not a finding of the court that is able to apply and have binding precedent on any

00:31:41.660 other determination.

00:31:43.080 Furthermore, the basic contours of due process and collateral estoppel require there to be

00:31:48.100 a vigorous process where the issues were really held.

00:31:50.860 They didn't have the opportunity to cross-examine any of the witnesses.

00:31:53.260 An anonymous witness on two forms, one of which is blatantly wrong and contradictory.

00:31:59.340 They said they picked him up for murder.

00:32:00.580 And so the issue of collateral estoppel, there's no collateral estoppel.

00:32:03.000 I mean, I think in the context of an immigration proceeding, I think it would, you know, you can't suddenly

00:32:08.180 take a criminal standard of proof.

00:32:10.960 Okay, that's 30 minutes, but we'll let you wrap it up.

00:32:12.840 Thank you, guys.

00:32:13.820 And then just the second issue of withholding, it's clear under the regulations and under

00:32:18.560 the due process clause, you are allowed to bring up, if just as the burden of the proof

00:32:21.840 is going to be on the government to show that the country conditions have changed so

00:32:24.420 that Barrio 18 is like no longer a threat because Bukela is just fucking Superman or whatever,

00:32:27.420 he's going to have additional opportunities to argue other withholding arguments, one of

00:32:31.480 which is now that he's been identified by Bukela by name, he has a very strong argument

00:32:35.060 that he's going to be actually a target of persecution by Bukela and the administration

00:32:38.460 and the state, which I think is actually a stronger argument than the Barrio 18 argument.

00:32:42.120 Let's roll.

00:32:42.880 All right, guys, now let's get it on.

00:32:44.680 That was our introductory debate.

00:32:46.440 You guys kind of got your palate, you know, and now we need the palate cleansed.

00:32:50.700 You got your little taste of what tonight's going to be about.

00:32:55.120 So, guys, what's going to happen is that we're going to pick people up.

00:32:57.200 We're going to kind of mix it up.

00:32:58.580 So first we're going to start with Donnie Dossie.

00:33:00.920 But, Donnie, what's going to happen is you're going to come up here.

00:33:02.480 You're going to get a minute uninterrupted to talk about whatever prompt you want.

00:33:05.860 We have this prompt.

00:33:06.700 We're just going to use you because you're the first one.

00:33:08.980 And then after you make that argument, then you're going to come up here,

00:33:11.840 and that's when we're going to have the back and forth dialogue.

00:33:13.660 So you got one minute, and then, you know, hopefully just give us your best one-minute elevator pitch

00:33:18.840 on your topic and why you think you're right.

00:33:21.440 Then you get the four minutes back and forth.

00:33:23.100 You get to freaking argue with the most famous guy on YouTube.

00:33:26.960 I'll kick you out.

00:33:27.560 If I suck, I suck.

00:33:29.140 And, yeah, so your one-minute starts.

00:33:32.440 Let me get the timer out.

00:33:33.580 Just go for it.

00:33:34.200 I'll start it.

00:33:34.840 Yeah.

00:33:35.140 Ready, set, debate, or say your topic.

00:33:39.160 So this withholding of removal thing that I keep hearing about, I mean, granted, I admit I'm not a lawyer or anything.

00:33:45.440 I also, you know, I didn't actually, like, read the Supreme Court ruling or anything.

00:33:49.780 But my understanding of the withholding of removal is this makes it illegal for them to have deported Garcia to El Salvador.

00:33:57.500 It did not grant him permanent residency within the United States, and it also did not outlaw ability to deport him to another country.

00:34:04.960 So I'm kind of confused on where the confusion.

00:34:10.180 Okay, I get it.

00:34:10.920 A mistake was made.

00:34:11.800 He was accidentally deported to El Salvador.

00:34:13.680 So what happens from that point?

00:34:15.160 We go ahead and we bring him back.

00:34:16.800 How do we bring him back?

00:34:17.940 Like, what if Bukele isn't willing to relate to him to us?

00:34:21.560 How do we go about getting him back?

00:34:23.140 Are we supposed to send in the military and go take him by force and bring him back here just so that way we can detain him and deport him again anyways?

00:34:31.000 None of that makes sense to me.

00:34:32.920 Yeah!

00:34:33.380 That's kind of my point.

00:34:34.240 All right, well, come on.

00:34:34.700 Well, come on up, and then we can tell you why you're wrong.

00:34:39.060 I mean, that's my position, too, mostly.

00:34:41.980 So nice to meet you, too.

00:34:43.400 Well, let's roll.

00:34:44.080 I mean, what was wrong?

00:34:45.480 Sure.

00:34:45.940 First of all, thank you guys.

00:34:46.800 I know that we disagree on stuff, but I really appreciate you all coming here.

00:34:50.020 I think it's a really important topic, due process.

00:34:51.960 So I think it's awesome.

00:34:53.120 If I could say real quick, kudos to you, man.

00:34:55.640 Big balls.

00:34:56.580 Big balls.

00:34:57.380 Come up here.

00:34:58.540 Go up against these three and an entire fucking room of people that are opposing you.

00:35:03.860 That's strong.

00:35:04.600 Okay, you don't need to kiss his ass.

00:35:06.140 No, I appreciate it.

00:35:07.060 So I think the first, I'm going to deal in reverse order.

00:35:09.760 The first thing is like, well, how can we actually get that done?

00:35:12.240 I think everyone, if they're being honest with themselves, because you guys are honest people,

00:35:16.860 should admit that Trump could, if he wanted to, get Kilmer-Barbera Garcia back.

00:35:21.440 He recently, as like this week, said he could get him back.

00:35:24.700 So we believe in terms of practicality, the president of the United States could get him

00:35:30.180 back, right?

00:35:31.100 I mean, I concede he could because he does have a lot of sway and Bukele wants to work with him.

00:35:35.660 So you agree with that, right?

00:35:37.020 He wants to work with him.

00:35:38.080 But then at the same time, this also keeps Bukele in the spotlight.

00:35:41.060 Yeah, I know.

00:35:41.540 And he likes being in the spotlight.

00:35:42.460 But let's not talk about any questions of could.

00:35:44.680 Let's talk about questions of should.

00:35:46.040 Because I don't really think that you can make a strong argument that he couldn't.

00:35:50.120 I don't really think that he needs to waste his time on it.

00:35:53.220 Hang on, I just wanted to give Will an opportunity.

00:35:54.780 Well, yeah, I mean, I think my point is that there's Article 2 prerogatives that he actually

00:35:59.520 does need to protect.

00:36:00.880 And so in a world where Article 3 is sort of like in this vague game of trying to order

00:36:04.480 him to return him, I would say no.

00:36:06.700 So I want to give Will his credit because it is the case.

00:36:09.740 There are, as the Supreme Court held, limits, Article 3 limits on their ability to infringe

00:36:15.300 on the Article 2 prerogatives.

00:36:16.560 And I agree with some of these.

00:36:17.760 Like if the Supreme Court said to Trump, hey, you have to go send in spec ops to take this

00:36:22.900 guy out, I would think that that's unconstitutional for them to order that.

00:36:25.700 So I do agree that there are some limits here.

00:36:28.120 But that's a question of whether the court can order the remedy, not a question about what

00:36:31.760 Trump could do.

00:36:32.960 Well, no, because there's an odd element to this, too.

00:36:35.100 And I think that you're a little, you're alighting.

00:36:37.260 The odd argument is that in a world where the Supreme Court is attempting to encroach

00:36:43.080 on his power with vague orders and Trump exceeds to it, that sets a precedent for what the court

00:36:49.580 can do going forward.

00:36:50.560 And so, I mean, and since we're in this area of like core Article 2 power, why, why I think

00:36:54.400 in, you know, I think Trump should do, as I said, my, I think the remedy here is this hearing

00:36:58.560 in El Salvador, but I think Trump should resist any sort of attempt to say, oh, you're, you're

00:37:03.880 ordering me to negotiate with the Salvadoran government to bring him back.

00:37:06.420 I'm not going to do that until you give that up.

00:37:08.040 We also need to address what it means to, what the, what the phrase could bring him back

00:37:12.640 means.

00:37:13.080 And this would mean that Trump would need to negotiate with Bukele to some degree.

00:37:16.260 And I also believe it's fair to say that while Trump could bring him back, the resistance

00:37:20.840 is going to be tremendous.

00:37:22.700 Bukele is going to have to concede to his nation.

00:37:25.780 I have released an MS-13 gang member because I was pressured by a foreign country.

00:37:29.920 So Trump could get him back, but Trump's going to have to come in like, here's what we'll

00:37:34.060 give you.

00:37:34.440 We'll give you this.

00:37:34.960 We'll give you that.

00:37:35.680 Things that the Supreme Court can't order him to guarantee.

00:37:38.560 Bukele has like what?

00:37:39.740 90% approval in El Salvador?

00:37:42.420 I've had a client from El Salvador before and I want to underplay the problem in the gang.

00:37:45.680 Because he's hard on them.

00:37:46.300 What's that?

00:37:46.760 Because he's hard on crime.

00:37:48.000 He's hard on gang.

00:37:48.900 So I want to, I want to be clear.

00:37:50.500 Like the, El Salvador, my, my client that I once had, he, he was absolutely a victim to the

00:37:55.800 gang violence.

00:37:56.260 It was endemic and it was just unlivable in El Salvador.

00:37:58.620 So I don't want to underplay the degree to which gang violence matters.

00:38:00.900 It absolutely does.

00:38:01.920 But he is not, he, his approval rating, you know, is to the max.

00:38:06.780 The, the, the notion that he would face some kind of humongous.

00:38:09.880 At the very second that he softens on that, his approval rating is going to go down.

00:38:14.740 You don't think he's like, okay, we gave it back because we want to make a good relation

00:38:17.100 with the president.

00:38:17.580 That's not going to affect his, his approval rating.

00:38:19.820 So that's going to, come on.

00:38:20.940 This is, this is all a joke.

00:38:22.340 If Trump wanted him back.

00:38:23.240 I want to do some Socratic dialogue with you because you did a lot earlier.

00:38:26.260 So let's do some Socratic dialogue.

00:38:28.300 Imagine a different hypothetical.

00:38:30.460 Let's imagine a world where the United States had an illegal member of La Cosa Nostra in

00:38:38.180 detention.

00:38:39.000 Yep.

00:38:39.620 And somehow he had managed to acquire withholding removal from an immigration judge.

00:38:44.720 Maybe the, that information got hidden about him being in La Cosa Nostra, whatever.

00:38:48.460 Okay.

00:38:48.640 He got a withholding of removal to Italy.

00:38:49.980 Like Italy.

00:38:50.620 Okay.

00:38:51.340 The Italy hypothetical.

00:38:52.080 Um, and then, you know, that's four minutes, Donnie.

00:38:57.600 Uh, let's, any final thoughts for you?

00:39:00.260 Donnie, you spent a minute of it kissing Pisco's ass.

00:39:03.460 I shouldn't be kissing his ass.

00:39:05.280 I was just trying to talk about, you know, I'm impressed that he got up here, but at the

00:39:08.840 same time, he's fucking wrong.

00:39:10.520 Well, we're impressed that you're here too.

00:39:11.800 That's where I'm at.

00:39:12.720 All right.

00:39:12.960 But I, but I, but I do agree.

00:39:14.140 I do tremendously respect you being here, man.

00:39:15.600 This is fantastic.

00:39:16.060 Thank you so much.

00:39:16.500 Thank you.

00:39:16.880 Yeah.

00:39:17.040 We do appreciate it.

00:39:17.860 Okay.

00:39:18.320 Now guys, obviously, no, thank you, Donnie.

00:39:20.840 Great job.

00:39:21.800 And, uh, so guys, you guys, you're going to be able to come up here.

00:39:24.020 So try to interject a little bit.

00:39:25.260 I know, Donnie, it's tough being the first one.

00:39:26.720 So don't beat yourself up.

00:39:27.560 You actually did a good job.

00:39:28.440 Thank you.

00:39:28.840 You're the, you're the virgin.

00:39:30.300 We just, you know, you, you know, you took a virginity.

00:39:32.700 So thank you.

00:39:34.880 Well, Alex Jones, we're about to get into Alex Jones, but it's funny because we're getting

00:39:39.360 heckled by, let's be real guys.

00:39:41.320 This is a sausage fest.

00:39:42.540 You know, I mean, it is, but we do have a few ladies here.

00:39:46.320 So next up, I want one of those beautiful ladies from the audience to come on down.

00:39:50.680 So do we have a lady that wants to come up here?

00:39:52.840 Uh, do we have a lady?

00:39:54.320 Yeah, come on.

00:39:55.880 Come on.

00:39:56.760 Yes.

00:39:57.200 Come on.

00:39:57.560 Get up there.

00:39:58.060 You have to come up.

00:39:58.960 Yeah.

00:39:59.460 If you're here, guys, you're susceptible to being chosen and get up there.

00:40:03.000 So just say anything.

00:40:04.900 Just come up for a minute.

00:40:05.700 If you suck for the minute, you get kicked off.

00:40:08.800 You don't have a choice.

00:40:11.260 Just come up here.

00:40:12.100 Don't be scared.

00:40:12.800 You're going to go viral.

00:40:13.500 Oh my gosh.

00:40:16.920 Okay.

00:40:17.200 Well, if you're going to be a chicken buck, well, like, listen, you know, you came here,

00:40:20.660 you put on that dress, you wanted to be seen.

00:40:23.220 Let's, let's see it.

00:40:24.440 Let's, let's, let's grab who we got.

00:40:25.520 All right.

00:40:25.940 So, all right.

00:40:26.520 Let's go with somebody that's different.

00:40:28.320 Is John Gordon here?

00:40:29.480 We got a John Gordon in the audience.

00:40:32.220 No.

00:40:32.680 Okay.

00:40:33.260 Uh, he wanted to be here.

00:40:34.620 What about, uh, what about Connor York?

00:40:36.940 Do we have a Connor York in the audience?

00:40:39.300 All right.

00:40:39.800 No.

00:40:40.020 What about a Sam Lipton?

00:40:41.640 Do we have a Sam Lipton in the audience?

00:40:43.500 None of the, is there anybody that's liberal or, you know, has a different viewpoint than

00:40:49.540 us that wants to come up here?

00:40:51.400 Oh, it's different, but it's okay.

00:40:52.680 Okay.

00:40:52.940 Well then you come up here.

00:40:53.740 What's your name?

00:40:54.780 Uh, Stork.

00:40:55.860 Stork is what people call it.

00:40:57.400 Stork.

00:40:57.800 Okay.

00:40:58.100 Or did you submit?

00:40:58.880 Did you do an official submission?

00:41:00.400 Okay.

00:41:00.860 I'll find it.

00:41:01.680 So, uh, we'll go for it.

00:41:03.160 Let him deal the timer and we'll see what you got.

00:41:05.720 Yeah.

00:41:05.860 Yeah.

00:41:06.000 If I can get it in before he gets the timer going.

00:41:07.780 Okay.

00:41:07.960 So I believe, uh, he is slightly wrong.

00:41:10.180 I believe you are mostly correct.

00:41:12.060 And I believe all of this is a fact that they denied him his sixth amendment right to a right

00:41:16.040 to a speedy trial when he was denied essentially all of the process, uh, processing that would

00:41:20.700 have been needed when he had the stay of export, uh, deportation.

00:41:23.580 So he should have been sent to another place.

00:41:25.540 In addition to that, most of immigration is actually screwed up because we have not filed

00:41:30.000 a writ of mandamus against the federal government for not processing all of these people who

00:41:33.740 are stuck in immigration limbo for eight, 10, 15, 20, 30 years, and they should be doing

00:41:39.280 their job and getting them the hell out of the country.

00:41:41.760 Oh, I think.

00:41:42.860 Come on down.

00:41:43.320 Take a seat.

00:41:43.680 Come on down.

00:41:44.860 I mean, yeah, I don't.

00:41:49.580 Sixth Amendment doesn't apply.

00:41:50.520 It's not a criminal punishment.

00:41:51.120 I don't think the Sixth Amendment applies.

00:41:51.760 Uh, so, so it's not a Sixth Amendment issue because it's a civil, because it's a civil

00:41:54.600 and you can't get a writ of mandamus because one, number one is these judges are executive

00:41:59.880 branch officials.

00:42:01.040 So, um, you sure, you sure can get a writ of a mandamus against, uh, executive branch

00:42:05.400 officials, but, um, you know, right now they're all under Trump.

00:42:08.220 And so, you know, if, if Trump could just order them to do whatever you want the writ of

00:42:12.160 mandamus to do, that's democracy.

00:42:13.980 Yeah.

00:42:14.380 But like, all I mean is to say is I think that the, this is properly understood as a due process

00:42:18.540 issue.

00:42:19.000 So if the writ of mandamus was actually filed under the previous administration, then they

00:42:23.000 would be obligated to do what it is they need to do.

00:42:25.400 That sounds like it's the article three judges encroaching on the, uh, executive branch prerogatives.

00:42:29.800 Yeah.

00:42:30.060 I think that actually, and in this context, it probably would be because we actually, you

00:42:33.800 know, there, this is like, I agree.

00:42:36.280 Yeah.

00:42:36.400 There's an article two prerogative to manage immigration and enforce immigration laws.

00:42:40.040 You can, you can fail to enforce such a degree that it would be like mandamusable by

00:42:44.040 somebody, but then there's all sorts of like other questions.

00:42:45.740 I want to, I want to cut a deal real quick with Democrats.

00:42:48.360 Uh, I, I will advocate for the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to this country for his

00:42:53.520 hearing.

00:42:54.020 If we also simultaneously get a hearing on the extrajudicial assassinations, Barack Obama

00:42:58.260 committed.

00:42:59.320 Let's talk about that.

00:43:00.660 The same thing.

00:43:01.720 The same thing.

00:43:02.580 Actually.

00:43:03.740 So let's talk about that.

00:43:05.360 Cause, cause you might think, and I understand this point, like, first of all, um, he, he

00:43:10.660 was a U S citizen, right?

00:43:12.320 That's number one.

00:43:13.400 And he was killed.

00:43:14.840 Al-Awlaki, right?

00:43:15.620 Is that what you're talking about?

00:43:16.020 Well, so, so, uh, Anwar Al-Awlaki is a great example, but Abdul Rahman is a better example.

00:43:20.700 Okay.

00:43:21.340 I'm talking about that case.

00:43:22.660 Uh, Abdul Rahman is a 16 year old, was a 16 year old American citizen, was not a part

00:43:26.660 of any terror organizations.

00:43:28.300 The, the Obama administration ordered a drone strike on a civilian cafe in Yemen, a

00:43:31.860 country we were not at war with, blowing it up, killing a bunch of people, including

00:43:35.120 him.

00:43:36.080 And they've admitted to it.

00:43:37.740 I would like, and I don't think you necessarily disagree with me.

00:43:40.440 I, I, I, that's why I said Democrats, I'm not directing at you.

00:43:42.860 I know that if I went to democratic politicians and said, you see this as an injustice, I believe

00:43:48.460 that in the end, the courts will prevail as it pertains to Barack Garcia.

00:43:51.380 So I'm willing to say, okay, let's spend that money, but you got to give me something.

00:43:54.700 Yeah.

00:43:54.820 Let's, let's, let's have justice.

00:43:55.820 Obama goes to prisons.

00:43:56.600 The only reason that I would say that's a problem is I believe there's a statute of

00:43:59.740 limitations on what it is you can follow a writ of mandibus for.

00:44:02.380 Is there a statute of limitations on murder?

00:44:03.820 I don't think there is in this case, but when this case, when you're talking about military

00:44:07.680 actions or something like that, there may.

00:44:09.480 But he's not talking about specific writ.

00:44:11.000 He's just saying in general.

00:44:12.460 A writ of mandibus, you sue the government essentially for inaction.

00:44:15.260 And that's what the problem is.

00:44:16.460 We have to.

00:44:16.960 But he's not talking about a particular remedy.

00:44:18.840 He's saying I'm willing to publicly support X in exchange for Democrats giving.

00:44:23.020 Yeah.

00:44:23.200 And so, so, um, I will also concede that there's probably, and you guys, the lawyers probably

00:44:27.080 know this better than me, some kind of immunity Obama has where he's going to say, this is

00:44:30.720 a military strike with intelligence.

00:44:32.200 We did not intend to kill an American, but we did.

00:44:34.500 So he may have some immunity from criminal prosecution.

00:44:37.800 Yeah.

00:44:38.320 I don't think you're going to win a, I don't think a judge is going to entertain this.

00:44:41.200 I think you can still get wrongful death or something like that.

00:44:43.620 I mean, he probably has like a, the president has absolutely, I mean, you would, you would

00:44:47.720 have like a civil suit against the government.

00:44:49.180 You could.

00:44:49.720 They tried it.

00:44:50.500 They tried it.

00:44:50.900 Unfortunately, I don't know if he has any surviving family members left because they

00:44:54.140 also killed them.

00:44:55.020 Indeed.

00:44:55.580 No, but my, my argument in the long form is actually impeach him, convict him.

00:44:59.160 And then now that he's no longer immune, you go after him.

00:45:01.560 But the court has already, so in the Trump versus United States case, which I totally disagree

00:45:04.520 with.

00:45:04.800 Hold on.

00:45:05.180 Yeah, go ahead.

00:45:05.560 Impeach him first.

00:45:06.540 Yeah.

00:45:06.880 Convict him in the impeachment.

00:45:07.980 Yeah.

00:45:08.240 Which he's no longer immune to the murder.

00:45:09.640 So the Supreme Court specifically rejected that impeachment judgment clause argument in

00:45:13.800 Trump versus United States.

00:45:14.500 So there's a couple arguments.

00:45:15.360 So one was the inherent structure of the constitution makes it that we have certain degrees of absolute

00:45:19.640 immunity for core executive acts that are part of your core executive powers.

00:45:24.500 But there was an argument additionally that Trump said that, well, I'm not immune under

00:45:29.300 those theories or alternatively, I'm immune until you impeach and remove me.

00:45:32.920 That's under the impeachment judgment clause.

00:45:34.400 But the Supreme Court unanimously held that that was not the case.

00:45:37.180 So you don't need to impeach someone to trigger a criminal immunity and remove them.

00:45:41.300 That's been rejected.

00:45:42.220 But it's a good question.

00:45:43.820 Would I support a hearing that looks at the executive power and its use on U.S. citizens

00:45:47.760 when they get killed?

00:45:49.160 Absolutely.

00:45:50.140 All right.

00:45:50.560 That's four minutes.

00:45:51.600 So, Stork, thank you.

00:45:53.040 Thank you.

00:45:53.500 Anything you want to say before you go?

00:45:54.720 All right.

00:45:54.980 All right.

00:45:56.220 Give it up for Stork.

00:45:57.280 Now, guys, when you come up, you got one minute.

00:45:59.140 Make sure to get on the mic.

00:46:00.460 Okay.

00:46:00.660 Now, this next guy.

00:46:01.960 Why don't we just have them, if we don't know, like some people did or didn't show up,

00:46:04.600 why don't we have them raise their hands and then see who was prepared to come up?

00:46:07.140 Okay.

00:46:07.460 Okay.

00:46:07.740 Well, I know this guy's here because this guy's insane.

00:46:10.480 I love this guy.

00:46:12.100 No.

00:46:12.860 I want to call up David Tiny Flora.

00:46:16.720 So, David, come on down.

00:46:17.960 Tiny, it's your turn.

00:46:19.100 Come on down, Tiny.

00:46:20.960 Oh, he's coming.

00:46:21.700 Tiny, come on.

00:46:22.700 Yeah.

00:46:22.960 Give it up for Tiny.

00:46:25.220 He's not exactly that tiny.

00:46:27.000 I'll tell you that much.

00:46:27.820 The man's huge.

00:46:29.900 He's built like a damn refrigerator.

00:46:31.780 Look at him.

00:46:33.700 Come in here, sir.

00:46:35.060 Great train.

00:46:35.780 Now, get up on that mic.

00:46:37.040 You know how to get up on things.

00:46:38.440 Come on.

00:46:38.860 We want to hear you.

00:46:39.460 Maybe make it taller.

00:46:40.560 Damn.

00:46:41.020 You can pick the mic up and take it with you.

00:46:42.300 Yeah, damn.

00:46:42.720 All right.

00:46:43.020 You got one minute.

00:46:43.860 Get up on that thing for you, Alex.

00:46:45.360 $20.

00:46:46.020 No, I'm not gay.

00:46:47.100 I don't play that way.

00:46:47.820 Maybe Pisco.

00:46:49.040 $20, $20, bro.

00:46:50.320 Yeah, well, I'm worth a lot more.

00:46:52.100 I'm a pimp on a plan, dude.

00:46:53.160 You know what I mean?

00:46:53.640 I don't need $20.

00:46:54.480 But you got one minute.

00:46:56.140 What do you want to say, Tony?

00:46:56.940 All right.

00:46:57.200 So what I wanted to discuss, you guys actually touched on it briefly.

00:47:00.200 Sorry.

00:47:00.660 You're getting close to the mic.

00:47:01.740 Hold on.

00:47:02.300 So what I wanted to discuss, and you guys actually talked about it or touched on it briefly,

00:47:06.020 was actually the, I guess, sale of U.S. citizens to private prison industry in the United States

00:47:14.780 and how that would be any different than selling U.S. citizens to CECOT, for example.

00:47:21.900 I believe that there would be, there's already a precedent that's set in the United States

00:47:26.240 where we do pass or sell inmates along, from my personal knowledge, working as a corrections

00:47:31.480 officer for a few years.

00:47:32.520 And I believe that it would be as simple as creating a territory or creating CECOT, a

00:47:41.300 territory within, I'm sorry, creating a territory within CECOT that is ran by the BOP.

00:47:46.880 I think it's a wonderful question.

00:47:48.680 All right.

00:47:48.900 So for those who didn't hear, he asked, what about the comparison to private prisons, the

00:47:52.460 fact that we outsource and contract private entities to take on the responsibility of the

00:47:57.320 government, specifically with incarceration of individuals, both of, you know, for crimes

00:48:00.860 and immigration?

00:48:01.240 Wait, but Pisco, I'm going to say, I'm more surprised that a guy with prison tattoos is

00:48:04.580 that eloquent.

00:48:05.540 I mean, I can't believe that.

00:48:07.560 Where did that, where did that, where did that, where did that, where did you come from?

00:48:09.720 I'm seeing those medical tattoos.

00:48:10.540 He's got the small cane, he's got the marijuana leaf, I mean, man, that's gangster as hell.

00:48:16.240 That's the M, right?

00:48:16.960 It's a great question.

00:48:18.080 The underside's actually the fireman's prayer.

00:48:20.260 Oh, that's wonderful.

00:48:21.980 Yeah, but you do have a weed flower on your arm, though, right?

00:48:24.280 True, that's the M.

00:48:25.100 Most definitely.

00:48:25.520 That's the M.

00:48:27.220 Talk into the mic, we want to hear you, Tiny.

00:48:28.900 Okay, your clock starts now, so yeah, go.

00:48:31.240 It's a fantastic thing to say, because I think it's on all fours.

00:48:35.120 It's exactly the comparison.

00:48:36.540 Bukele is being used as a contractor, and that plays into my argument and the argument

00:48:40.520 of the plaintiff, which is, Bukele is not exercising the sovereign power of El Salvador

00:48:45.580 by keeping Abrego Garcia in detention.

00:48:48.140 He is being contracted by the U.S. government to hold him.

00:48:51.060 Now, I know there's an argument.

00:48:51.700 Which is not true, though.

00:48:52.480 There's an argument that, oh, they're only paying money for the Venezuelans.

00:48:55.700 That's all a fugazi.

00:48:56.960 It's all a lie.

00:48:57.980 You know, obviously, he's working at the past of the U.S. government.

00:49:00.220 Hold on.

00:49:00.660 More Socratic dialogue.

00:49:01.860 Go for it.

00:49:02.280 Go for it.

00:49:02.500 If we, okay, so if under normal circumstances, Joe Biden had sent back a Salvadoran gang

00:49:07.940 member, a legal alien, to Bukele, right, and say there was some financial arrangement even

00:49:14.080 between Bukele, not necessarily related to this particular person, but there was a financial

00:49:16.900 arrangement, is then suddenly, if there's some problem, is he able to, like, demand that

00:49:21.300 he be sent back to the United States?

00:49:23.080 No.

00:49:23.300 I think that there's an existing contractual relationship, an existing constructive custody,

00:49:28.700 you would argue, that this person is continually, it's not like one and done event.

00:49:33.900 It's why is this person in, I don't actually think he's in Sikah anymore.

00:49:37.720 I think they transferred him out someplace else.

00:49:39.980 But, like, why is he in custody in the first place?

00:49:42.680 Is he being in custody because he's being charged with a crime by Bukele?

00:49:46.120 Is he being, you know, why is he, in fact, in prison?

00:49:48.380 And the truth is, or in wherever he is, it's because he's acting at the behest of America,

00:49:53.320 and everyone kind of knows it, and the fact that we all kind of acknowledge, I don't

00:49:57.240 think that's true at all.

00:49:57.800 Well, I have a question for you, Pisco.

00:50:00.100 What is the legal process for imprisoning someone in El Salvador?

00:50:06.120 I don't know.

00:50:06.560 What is that process?

00:50:07.260 Me neither.

00:50:07.840 It seems very, we don't know.

00:50:08.900 I wonder why you're bringing up a foreign country's criminal justice system for their

00:50:12.700 own citizens.

00:50:13.000 Oh, I'm sorry, you're talking about the internal domestic process in El Salvador?

00:50:17.480 Yes.

00:50:18.300 Yeah, it's at the whims of the dictator.

00:50:20.680 So, are there other dictators that you're concerned about in other parts of the world?

00:50:24.460 100% I am, yes I am.

00:50:25.200 That you don't frequently debate about?

00:50:26.840 Well, I don't frequently debate about it when it doesn't relate to the US.

00:50:28.920 I don't think we have to be so chauvinist to assume that every country's process system

00:50:33.880 being different, especially El Salvador, which has had 30 years of gang violence, for them

00:50:37.440 to be like, no sorry, you have gang tattoos, you're going to jail.

00:50:39.440 But I don't even think we need to argue that, because I think there is a moral worldview

00:50:43.400 difference between us, and I don't mean this disrespectfully in that my view is, hey, we're

00:50:47.780 America, we take care of America.

00:50:49.420 If El Salvador is being shitty, I mean, that's El Salvador.

00:50:51.940 El Salvador, and this guy's their citizen in their country, if they decide to put him

00:50:55.660 in prison, that's not our fucking problem.

00:50:57.940 Agreed.

00:50:58.060 Yeah, but you're ignoring the process of how he got there, and how, yeah, it's, so, again,

00:51:06.740 if, you know, I actually, I ask this of Kristi Noem, can we just give him his hearing, and

00:51:11.460 be done with it, because we know that in the end we are correct, and her response was,

00:51:15.160 it's out of our jurisdiction now anyway.

00:51:17.200 So, I have a question, to kind of bring it back to what we were discussing here, right?

00:51:20.960 I think we kind of went a little further.

00:51:23.180 So, we already run programs very similar here in the United States, like with the 187G

00:51:28.800 program, Sheriff Chuck Jenkins up in Frederick County, Maryland, has been running that for

00:51:33.400 many years now, and has been very successful prior to the Trump administration.

00:51:37.220 In the United States, right?

00:51:38.420 Very correct.

00:51:39.040 I agree.

00:51:39.320 But my point is, those inmates, he is being compensated by the United States government

00:51:44.560 to house them in a special wing.

00:51:46.500 His deputies are deputized as federal marshals or federal agents.

00:51:51.500 Why would it be any different if we rented out a wing in Seacott and sent inmates there

00:51:56.920 no differently than what we do now in America?

00:51:59.880 Well, two things.

00:52:00.720 One is, I think that your description of that relationship is completely correct.

00:52:03.520 I think that's exactly what's happening with Bukele there, in the sense that, yes, the

00:52:07.460 U.S. government is contracting a party to enforce immigration law, but the reason why it's different

00:52:14.020 is the deprivation for which due process applies is the physical removal from the country.

00:52:21.080 And so, when you deport him to another place, you've now done the deprivation for which there

00:52:26.960 is due process.

00:52:27.920 And so, that's my answer to that is, in theory, I guess I wouldn't have a problem with the

00:52:31.980 law of contracting, like, some foreigner.

00:52:34.360 I don't like it, but legally, I don't know if that's a problem.

00:52:37.160 That's it.

00:52:37.760 That's your time.

00:52:38.920 All right.

00:52:39.100 I just want to point out real quick, this guy right here is a Maryland man with knuckle

00:52:43.920 tattoos.

00:52:45.080 Love it.

00:52:45.840 What do you do for a living, Tiny?

00:52:47.780 What do you do?

00:52:48.320 Do you mind saying?

00:52:49.100 What do you do?

00:52:49.980 No comment.

00:52:51.160 Damn.

00:52:51.780 I mean, he just sells weed, is what that means.

00:52:53.740 All right.

00:52:54.140 Now, actually, I got some information that, even though it is a little bit of a sausage

00:52:58.900 party, that I think we have a lady with the courage to step up to the microphone.

00:53:05.600 So, with that being said, yeah, I'm, okay, I said lady.

00:53:10.640 Oh.

00:53:12.560 That's gratuitous.

00:53:15.180 Now, with all that being said, let's welcome the one, the only, and Dr. Nate!

00:53:20.300 Give her a round of applause, guys.

00:53:22.200 Come on.

00:53:22.440 Thank you.

00:53:22.820 Thank you.

00:53:23.120 Thank you.

00:53:23.460 Oh, my God.

00:53:24.940 It is such a fucking sausage party.

00:53:27.560 Also, I want to say, you're pissing me off, Pisco, but I'm going to try to say this without

00:53:31.600 getting angry.

00:53:33.400 Okay.

00:53:34.580 If Kilmar comes back.

00:53:36.020 Talk into the mic.

00:53:36.800 Sorry.

00:53:37.060 Sorry.

00:53:37.160 Get real close to the mic.

00:53:38.800 Can you hear me?

00:53:39.520 Pull it off.

00:53:40.000 Take it off, because we're recording this, so we can't use you if we can't hear, so talk

00:53:44.880 into the mic.

00:53:45.900 Thank you, T-Bone.

00:53:47.020 So, all right.

00:53:48.460 First of all, this guy's name is Kilmar.

00:53:50.600 Like, he sounds fucking crazy.

00:53:52.740 Like, it's frightening as fuck.

00:53:55.080 Okay.

00:53:55.540 I mean, he is, like, just demonstrably.

00:53:58.460 Uninterrupted.

00:53:59.020 Let her talk.

00:53:59.400 Are you from Maryland?

00:54:00.560 No.

00:54:01.120 Okay.

00:54:01.420 So, I was born and raised in Maryland.

00:54:03.480 Shout out to Maryland.

00:54:05.180 Woo!

00:54:05.880 Shout out to the East Coasters in here.

00:54:07.840 All right.

00:54:08.260 Let me tell you something about MS-13.

00:54:10.320 All right.

00:54:10.900 If this guy comes back, he's going to be beating his wife, beating others, and back to the bullshit.

00:54:17.040 All the trafficking, everything he's up to that, you know, is alleged, he's going to be back

00:54:23.140 on his bullshit and even bigger.

00:54:25.480 I don't think, you know, I'll speak for myself, but I don't think my community wants or desires

00:54:31.660 to bring those characters back.

00:54:34.020 Like, we are extremely happy for their deportations, and we are extremely happy that he can't come

00:54:40.380 back, that he's trapped in El Salvador.

00:54:42.140 All right.

00:54:42.420 Is that the secret?

00:54:42.880 Come on, I think.

00:54:43.640 Great job.

00:54:44.100 This is...

00:54:45.180 I was waiting for a question like this, because this strikes at the moral perspective, not

00:54:50.680 the fact-based legal perspective.

00:54:53.100 And so, there's this air of, we can't deport people like this because it's a slippery slope

00:54:58.300 that results in injustice elsewhere.

00:55:00.440 That strikes at a procedural, legal, slippery slope, a lot of things.

00:55:06.040 But it doesn't ask the moral questions a community wants answered, in that, if this

00:55:10.820 was the 1800s, they'd have thrown this motherfucker out of town, and if he came back...

00:55:16.660 He would have been lynched.

00:55:17.740 He would have been...

00:55:18.660 They would have fucking killed this guy if he came back.

00:55:20.900 I don't want that to happen to anybody, but the point is, the way communities treat people

00:55:26.980 who wrong them, there is a question there.

00:55:30.100 So, I appreciate what you're asking about the moral question.

00:55:32.800 What's the answer there?

00:55:33.720 We hate it.

00:55:34.580 Okay.

00:55:35.340 Go ahead.

00:55:35.680 No.

00:55:35.780 Yeah, so, you brought up the lynching.

00:55:37.320 I just want to say, because I think that's an interesting point.

00:55:40.040 I think there is a moral dimension to procedural questions, but I'm going to ignore it for

00:55:44.260 the purpose of this, because I do think that...

00:55:46.280 I don't know if you guys ever watched The Hateful Eight.

00:55:47.440 Let's just ignore it.

00:55:48.660 Yeah, yeah.

00:55:49.740 It's my favorite Tarantino movie, and one of the characters says, that's frontier justice,

00:55:54.040 and that's frontier justice, and the reason why we don't agree with that on a moral dimension

00:55:56.880 is you're just as likely, you know, you're likely to be wrong sometimes, and so here's

00:56:01.520 my question for you.

00:56:02.900 Is Kilmar Obrego-Gracia innocent until proven guilty of the crimes that the media is alleging him

00:56:07.760 of doing?

00:56:08.080 He doesn't get to be judged by those terms, because he's not a citizen of the United States.

00:56:13.240 So, I just want to be clear.

00:56:16.240 Do you believe that either it is the case, or it ought to be the case, that non-U.S.

00:56:21.020 citizens should not have trials for the crimes they're accused of?

00:56:24.540 I think that what you're referencing is, like, a waste of our money, so we should not be...

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00:57:30.380 To bring him here, do all this bullshit, we've paid enough in Maryland, okay?

00:57:35.160 So the answer, no, you don't think non-citizens should get trials for the crimes they're accused of?

00:57:38.100 No, that's a loaded question.

00:57:39.080 Why is it loaded?

00:57:41.020 Why is it loaded?

00:57:41.580 Because the issue is, should somebody who lives in this country, permanent resident,

00:57:48.200 versus an illegal immigrant adjudicated as MS-13, whose penalty is deportation?

00:57:53.360 Right, here's the point.

00:57:54.720 If someone comes here and breaks the law, and the end result is going to be deportation,

00:57:59.480 how do we have a trial for them when they're gone?

00:58:01.820 Why force them to stay here if we're going to remove them anyway?

00:58:05.280 These are people who hate America, hate our community, they hate abiding by the law, they hate us,

00:58:13.120 they hate U.S. citizens, and they just mooch and mooch and mooch while literally terrorizing our community

00:58:18.780 and tearing us apart.

00:58:20.500 They're like agent provocateurs.

00:58:22.500 Let me ask you a question.

00:58:24.500 Do you believe that an illegal immigrant should get their due process?

00:58:28.920 That doesn't mean jury trial.

00:58:31.040 It means the standard legal process that is fair under the law for determining whether they're a citizen.

00:58:35.080 No!

00:58:36.200 I think that, I think no, in that the original crime being that they came to this country illegally.

00:58:42.240 But that's what I'm asking you.

00:58:43.820 The due process I'm asking if you would accept is,

00:58:46.580 a man is walking down the street, the cops stop him,

00:58:49.160 the due process here is, we must determine if he's a citizen or not.

00:58:53.140 Should they do that?

00:58:54.940 They should determine if he's a citizen or not.

00:58:57.420 Under what process?

00:58:58.420 Who do you trust to determine who's a citizen?

00:59:00.880 Border Patrol.

00:59:01.880 I actually got pulled over by Border Patrol recently,

00:59:04.760 and they did a great job.

00:59:06.740 Here's the problem.

00:59:07.220 When you put a hole in due process,

00:59:08.980 this is why I don't agree with these categorical exceptions,

00:59:11.620 once you put one hole in due process,

00:59:13.840 now the government, just by their own discretion,

00:59:16.620 is going to put everyone they don't like in that hole.

00:59:18.680 They're going to accuse you.

00:59:19.680 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:59:20.820 If you have nothing to hide, you should have no fucking hate.

00:59:23.140 That's classic neocon language.

00:59:24.720 What the fuck are you talking about?

00:59:26.860 If you have nothing to hide.

00:59:27.520 Classic Patriot Act language.

00:59:29.320 Being pulled over by Border Patrol shouldn't be frightening.

00:59:32.580 What makes America great, right,

00:59:35.100 is our structure, our constitution, our way of life.

00:59:39.400 People will often bring up to me

00:59:42.020 the Carter Page FISA warrants

00:59:44.140 that the Department of Justice got on Carter Page.

00:59:47.240 You guys remember this.

00:59:48.140 It's the Russiagate stuff, right?

00:59:49.320 Those Carter Page warrants were wrongfully obtained.

00:59:52.480 And you guys cared about them.

00:59:53.480 Why do you care about them?

00:59:54.440 You care about them because

00:59:55.320 you don't want the government to intrude.

00:59:57.540 This isn't even a matter of detention.

00:59:58.940 It's not a matter of execution.

01:00:01.480 So you...

01:00:02.200 I assume that you care.

01:00:04.400 It's called a rhetorical...

01:00:06.000 It's called...

01:00:06.840 Hey, hey, hey, dipshit.

01:00:08.740 Hey, dipshit.

01:00:09.300 It's called a rhetorical question.

01:00:10.380 Bro, you gotta come up.

01:00:11.300 Hey, dipshit.

01:00:12.080 It's called a rhetorical question.

01:00:13.400 Hey, dipshit.

01:00:14.040 It's called a rhetorical question.

01:00:15.220 You ever heard of it?

01:00:15.840 Wait, wait.

01:00:16.280 So, yes or no?

01:00:17.200 Yes or no?

01:00:17.580 Have you ever heard of a rhetorical question?

01:00:19.240 Don't call him a dipshit.

01:00:20.260 Dipshit.

01:00:21.220 Yes or no?

01:00:21.900 Have you heard of a rhetorical question?

01:00:22.860 Okay, okay, okay, okay, wait.

01:00:23.440 I'm not a...

01:00:24.040 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:00:25.360 We will ask you to come up because...

01:00:27.500 Yeah, that's four minutes for Dr. Nate, but wrap up.

01:00:30.440 If you've got a little bit more because we kind of went off just if you...

01:00:33.840 No, seriously, though, what do you say, Pisco, to the communities in Silver Spring, Gaithersburg,

01:00:39.580 these communities who have for the last 40 years been inundated with these illegal immigrants and dreamers?

01:00:44.800 Freedom?

01:00:45.420 This is what I say.

01:00:46.660 I say freedom isn't free.

01:00:48.260 Every time we give a trial to someone who's an accused rapist, an accused murderer, it costs the state and the people of Maryland a lot of money.

01:00:58.880 But the reason we do that is when we don't, we live at the discretion.

01:01:03.920 When we don't, we live at the discretion of the state.

01:01:06.180 And you shouldn't be government bootlicking shills that just trust the government to do everything you want.

01:01:10.300 And while I can agree with the government shill stuff, what I will say is it's the only thing I heard there was it's not in my fucking backyard, so I don't give a shit.

01:01:20.280 Thank you.

01:01:21.040 That is bullshit.

01:01:22.500 That is complete bullshit.

01:01:25.820 That's a cop out.

01:01:26.480 I'm going to tell you guys something I shouldn't fucking say.

01:01:30.080 We've got, I've got property in the area with MS-13 now trying to occupy it.

01:01:36.560 I had to fucking contact the FBI.

01:01:38.880 And so I've got these liberals who don't live here, who don't know that there are gunshots, that there are people running scared, and they're saying, bring this guy back.

01:01:48.480 Now, I'm going to pause.

01:01:49.760 I don't want false warrants or bullshit.

01:01:52.300 The reason why I asked about due process under the law is for an illegal immigrant, if they're stopped, like you guys stopped by CBP, the law as it is now is an officer makes a determination if they're a citizen or not.

01:02:05.540 And they have expedited removal, I believe, within two years.

01:02:08.560 And I was talking to Myron Gaines about this the other day.

01:02:10.260 He was an ICE agent.

01:02:10.900 He says, often, we just, we lock them up, get a plane, they send them home.

01:02:15.120 But that's a great point, Tim.

01:02:16.060 Wait, Tim, Tim.

01:02:16.600 That's the due process.

01:02:17.420 This is a great point.

01:02:17.960 Real quick.

01:02:18.400 We don't need a criminal trial after we say, get the fuck out.

01:02:21.040 Wait, wait, wait.

01:02:22.260 Exactly.

01:02:22.880 When did you hear me?

01:02:23.780 I just want to play here.

01:02:24.540 When did you hear me say that we need a trial?

01:02:26.380 In fact, I went and I said, J.D. Vance is a fucking liar because he says we're asking for trials.

01:02:31.600 What you just talked about, this proceeding in front of a judge, and really for expedited removal, it's usually not even default a judge.

01:02:38.500 It's just an immigration officer.

01:02:40.740 So we're not talking here about a ton of due process.

01:02:43.800 And I agree with you on that.

01:02:44.840 So all we're talking about here are minimum standards.

01:02:47.580 They didn't even give a notice before they left.

01:02:50.360 They're trying to say that you can give a 24-hour notice.

01:02:52.200 You're saying freedom isn't free, but you want them to stay here on our dime.

01:02:54.580 So it's costly, right?

01:02:57.340 Having freedom is...

01:02:58.140 What the fuck?

01:02:58.860 Nobody wants to pay that.

01:03:00.340 You understand this.

01:03:01.260 Freedom is costly.

01:03:02.040 The freedom of speech is costly.

01:03:04.020 The freedom to have guns is costly.

01:03:05.660 Then make El Salvador pay.

01:03:07.340 Make El Salvador pay.

01:03:08.460 Yeah.

01:03:08.860 So what is Trump doing?

01:03:10.320 Trump is not making El Salvador pay.

01:03:11.780 Trump is paying El Salvador.

01:03:13.600 Trump is paying El Salvador when, really, he is entitled under our own law, right?

01:03:18.440 Congress passes a law.

01:03:19.700 Congress passes the Immigration Nationality Act, and it says we're going to bind the executive to these rules.

01:03:24.060 What good is our country?

01:03:25.900 What good is it of our society if we don't follow the rules we set for ourselves?

01:03:29.660 Surely we must follow the law.

01:03:31.340 I want to say something, and I'm curious to hear Will's response.

01:03:35.980 Let me say something, and then I want to hear Will's response to this.

01:03:40.640 I love the Founding Fathers.

01:03:42.880 They were brilliant, brilliant people.

01:03:45.400 They put together...

01:03:47.060 The best government we've seen.

01:03:49.740 You love another man, gay.

01:03:50.960 Now, here's the issue.

01:03:52.840 Here's the issue.

01:03:53.520 They certainly did recognize emergency powers.

01:03:56.200 They certainly did recognize when the executive would need to take actions that were considered probably extreme.

01:04:01.960 We have seen instances throughout history.

01:04:04.100 The challenge I see now is determining when we are facing an existential crisis,

01:04:09.040 and whether or not we are going to be like the Catalonians sitting on our hands like anarchists being like,

01:04:15.620 well, we're being wiped the fuck out by invaders, but let's not do anything because we have a process to deal with.

01:04:20.040 Or if we're going to step to attention and say,

01:04:22.360 I understand the moral qualms with this process, how things are being handled,

01:04:28.480 but holy shit, how do we deal with narco gangs, cartels, etc.,

01:04:32.040 when they're actively killing people, they're invading our homes.

01:04:35.460 And so the question is, at what points do these platitudes of democratic society,

01:04:42.320 and I don't mean I want this to happen.

01:04:43.920 My question is legitimately,

01:04:44.980 at what points do we have to say,

01:04:48.580 holy shit, the system failed because we have been invaded?

01:04:52.100 Okay.

01:04:52.980 Well, Alex, Alex, I'm going to answer his question, then you can start.

01:04:56.740 Okay?

01:04:58.120 So the answer is that the Constitution provides that flexibility, right?

01:05:02.180 Like the due process that we're actually talking about here in all this context isn't really constitutional.

01:05:06.760 It's statutory.

01:05:08.080 The withholding of removal is a grant by statute.

01:05:10.520 The Convention of Torture comes from a treaty, but it ultimately is implemented by statute.

01:05:15.540 Congress can change the law and change what due process is entitled to.

01:05:19.280 And if they're, like, and so...

01:05:20.740 Sorry, real quick.

01:05:21.520 Get off your ass and pass the law.

01:05:22.580 Real quick to interject.

01:05:23.360 Yeah.

01:05:23.980 I hear this a lot, but it is not getting to the core.

01:05:27.160 We know Congress doesn't fucking work.

01:05:29.620 We know that we have a two-septiality.

01:05:30.920 Too bad.

01:05:31.820 We have a republic, not a dictatorship.

01:05:33.680 And I'm not advocating for one.

01:05:35.340 I'm telling you that at a certain point, people start shooting motherfuckers.

01:05:38.180 Because when the people who live in Maryland are like,

01:05:40.440 MS-13 has shot a child in my neighborhood, they're not going to wait.

01:05:44.040 That's not what they're voting for.

01:05:45.340 They voted for Van Hollen.

01:05:46.720 They voted for...

01:05:47.880 You are misunderstanding.

01:05:48.880 They voted for Van Hollen.

01:05:50.560 They voted for Van Hollen.

01:05:51.560 You are misunderstanding.

01:05:53.480 Dude, my point...

01:05:53.880 My point dreamers voted for Van Hollen.

01:05:56.020 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:56.440 So, you want rule by minority.

01:05:58.740 You guys want rule by minority government.

01:06:00.100 I mean, that's crazy.

01:06:00.600 Let's pause.

01:06:01.980 I am not prescribing anything.

01:06:04.600 I am describing something.

01:06:06.960 Right now, Congress cannot answer these questions for anybody, nor are the courts, nor is the

01:06:12.620 executive branch.

01:06:13.800 You've got people split massively across this country, near 50-50, ready to tear each other's

01:06:19.000 heads off.

01:06:19.760 And the idea that Congress will change something is a pipe dream.

01:06:23.960 Well, I think this is...

01:06:25.000 I don't know what's going to happen.

01:06:26.600 I'm saying, what happens?

01:06:28.060 I mean, this is the reason...

01:06:29.720 I mean, we might actually have a different, interesting debate about the Alien Enemies Act

01:06:32.740 at this point, right?

01:06:33.560 Because this is where I would come back and say, what Trump is doing, the Alien Enemies Act

01:06:38.300 is right and just.

01:06:39.360 The courts are overreaching.

01:06:41.280 And so, like, Trump should continue.

01:06:44.940 Should I ignore the courts?

01:06:46.840 Well, I mean, at a certain point, like, you know, ignoring and defying the courts is something

01:06:51.180 that's been done historically.

01:06:51.960 So if the Supreme Court says, you can't do this, this Alien Enemies Act invocation is

01:06:55.300 invalid, you would say, Trump, you should disobey that?

01:06:57.780 Depends.

01:06:58.240 Depends on how the, like, depends on the reasoning of the Supreme Court.

01:07:00.380 If they say, if they say, the president, you know, we don't get to change your facts,

01:07:04.320 just like the Texas...

01:07:05.240 I don't know if you've read the...

01:07:06.020 I read that Texas opinion.

01:07:07.020 If they use that logic, I actually think that should be defied.

01:07:09.780 I don't think that the Supreme Court should have the authority to, like, determine what a

01:07:12.760 war is.

01:07:13.120 I think that's such an obvious encroachment on it.

01:07:14.760 So the answer is, Trump should defy the Supreme Court if they...

01:07:18.140 On that question, yeah.

01:07:19.140 He should.

01:07:19.500 I am at the point where when Democrats called for packing the Supreme Court, I agreed with

01:07:23.080 them.

01:07:23.460 When Democrats arrested lawyers, I agreed with them.

01:07:25.740 Bullshit.

01:07:26.440 What bullshit you agreed with the Dems back in the court?

01:07:29.200 Show me that.

01:07:29.820 No, no, no.

01:07:30.280 Show me that clip.

01:07:30.860 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:07:31.960 Show me that clip.

01:07:32.740 Every day!

01:07:33.560 I could be wrong!

01:07:34.860 I could be wrong!

01:07:35.660 I could be wrong!

01:07:36.840 When the Democrats said, we should have...

01:07:38.960 We have 13...

01:07:40.020 What is it?

01:07:40.320 13 federal...

01:07:41.180 What are they called?

01:07:41.700 Districts?

01:07:42.060 They're not districts, right?

01:07:43.420 Federal circuits?

01:07:44.120 There's 12 in the federal circuit.

01:07:45.880 And there's only nine justices.

01:07:46.960 They said, we need to add four more.

01:07:48.440 I said, fuck yeah, we do when Trump wins, baby!

01:07:51.120 We're going to add four more Republicans.

01:07:52.000 But that's not what you said.

01:07:53.060 That's not what you said.

01:07:53.760 Okay, all right.

01:07:54.480 Indurgeonate.

01:07:55.060 Guys, before you go, how did George Floyd die?

01:07:59.180 Will you tell him?

01:08:01.020 George Floyd...

01:08:01.800 Oh, my God.

01:08:02.360 This is awkward, bro.

01:08:03.400 I know, because you're an African-American woman.

01:08:05.000 How did he die?

01:08:06.000 This is awkward also because I'm...

01:08:07.600 How did he die?

01:08:09.860 He overdosed.

01:08:11.280 No, he didn't.

01:08:11.920 No, no.

01:08:12.380 Listen, wait, wait, wait.

01:08:13.360 So to be clear about justice...

01:08:15.120 Let me just say this.

01:08:16.320 It's awkward because I stand here also known as the only black woman watching TimCast.

01:08:22.000 Wait a second.

01:08:22.760 No, no.

01:08:23.040 I'm going to tell you something, okay?

01:08:24.960 This guy was a fucking menace to society.

01:08:26.880 So when you overdose on opioids, do you struggle for life like this?

01:08:31.120 Have you ever seen a tweaker?

01:08:32.240 Have you ever been to Baltimore?

01:08:33.900 So to be clear...

01:08:35.360 What the fuck are you talking about?

01:08:36.540 You've never seen a tweaker?

01:08:37.440 Where do you live?

01:08:37.980 Guys, guys, guys, guys, guys, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:08:40.340 He had meth in his system too.

01:08:42.200 So...

01:08:42.680 It's called a speedball.

01:08:45.440 I encourage you...

01:08:46.360 I encourage you to listen to the testimony of Dr. Tobin, who was the pulmonary cardiologist in that case.

01:08:52.460 He was incredibly convincing.

01:08:54.300 And it was the agonal breaths.

01:08:57.520 And when you die of a dose like that, it's like you're falling into a sleep.

01:09:01.680 You're falling into a sleep.

01:09:02.580 It's not like you're struggling.

01:09:03.820 You're struggling for your life like he was.

01:09:05.300 Yeah.

01:09:05.420 I just want to say, Derek Chauvin showed up after Floyd was already on the ground and engaged in a hold that he was trained to by the Minneapolis Police Department.

01:09:14.720 Garbage.

01:09:15.060 And the defense...

01:09:16.420 What?

01:09:16.740 The prosecution actually argued on the continuum of force he was entitled to use more force than he used.

01:09:22.100 No, they didn't.

01:09:22.760 Yes, they did.

01:09:23.600 No, they didn't.

01:09:24.280 Yes, they did.

01:09:25.240 I watched the whole trial.

01:09:26.240 They said...

01:09:26.660 I watched the whole trial.

01:09:27.940 I watched the whole...

01:09:28.760 So to be clear, were they justified if they wanted to shoot him in the head?

01:09:32.360 No.

01:09:32.700 Why not?

01:09:33.120 Tase!

01:09:33.680 Tase!

01:09:34.120 Only Tase!

01:09:34.760 Taser!

01:09:36.100 So would you say that that application was deadly force?

01:09:38.660 I know.

01:09:39.500 The kneeling on the neck in the neck area?

01:09:41.360 Yeah, okay.

01:09:41.800 So after George Floyd stops struggling for his life because he's dead, is the application of force still justified after he's literally devoid of life?

01:09:51.480 Yes.

01:09:51.660 So when he's no longer...

01:09:54.860 He could have...

01:09:55.420 You're saying it was justified to use that hold indefinitely.

01:09:59.380 Is that right?

01:09:59.720 I certainly didn't say indefinitely.

01:10:02.920 I'm asking you the question.

01:10:04.120 Would they be justified to use that hold indefinitely?

01:10:05.640 Let me say this.

01:10:06.800 I certainly never said indefinitely.

01:10:08.320 I'm asking.

01:10:08.700 But let me just stress.

01:10:10.680 We're talking about kneeling on somebody after the fact.

01:10:14.400 You didn't know what was going on.

01:10:16.120 You showed up after the fact.

01:10:17.360 And I will say this.

01:10:18.660 There's of course degrees on a continuum of use of force.

01:10:22.420 Chauvin showed up.

01:10:23.540 He was already on the ground.

01:10:24.760 Don't we...

01:10:25.100 He applied a hold that he was trained to do.

01:10:27.580 Answer the question.

01:10:27.860 I would argue...

01:10:28.660 I would argue it is fair to get him on some kind of negligent charge.

01:10:32.860 Oh, so he did do a crime.

01:10:34.860 All right, next, next, next.

01:10:36.180 He just said it.

01:10:36.940 He just said it.

01:10:37.700 He just said you should get him on a negligent charge.

01:10:39.380 That's a crime.

01:10:39.400 What I love about this guy is that he will take any more so he can get and turn it into a fucking apocalypse.

01:10:43.700 Wait, you just said, right?

01:10:45.300 You just said...

01:10:45.640 Hey, but you know this.

01:10:46.620 Hey, since you are an attorney, you know that he has what is called qualified immunity so that he can...

01:10:50.680 That's for civil matters.

01:10:51.320 That's for civil.

01:10:51.860 It's not for criminal.

01:10:52.420 That's for damages cases and civil cases.

01:10:54.240 Why did the guy who simply held back the crowd go to prison?

01:10:56.100 You don't have qualified immunity as a crime.

01:10:57.680 Qualified immunity applies to civil damages cases, not to criminal matters.

01:11:00.640 Why did the man who was simply holding back the crowd go to prison?

01:11:04.600 Answer my question.

01:11:05.520 Don't weasel out of it, all right?

01:11:06.740 Don't weasel out of it.

01:11:07.680 You just said...

01:11:08.180 You agree...

01:11:09.060 First of all, you agree that you should have charged Chauvin with a crime.

01:11:11.500 You just said it, right?

01:11:12.180 Oh, that question...

01:11:12.940 That question is pussy shit.

01:11:14.600 Wait, wait, wait.

01:11:15.040 That question is pussy shit.

01:11:17.320 Yeah.

01:11:17.940 Bro, you want to...

01:11:18.620 All right, guys, guys.

01:11:19.320 We need to bring somebody new up.

01:11:20.480 I'll say it back to you.

01:11:21.160 All right.

01:11:21.580 We got to...

01:11:22.060 Dr. Nate, get your ass off the stage.

01:11:23.780 Thank you so much.

01:11:25.140 Thank you.

01:11:25.660 All right.

01:11:26.080 All right.

01:11:26.420 That guy...

01:11:27.120 The guy in the beanie come up that's been going crazy.

01:11:30.060 We're enjoying ourselves.

01:11:31.000 Come on down.

01:11:31.640 We fist bump.

01:11:32.060 Yeah.

01:11:32.360 You.

01:11:32.740 Come on down.

01:11:33.340 Hurry up, dude.

01:11:34.000 You got one minute.

01:11:34.960 What up?

01:11:35.340 What up?

01:11:35.460 Guys, we only have a certain amount of time left, so we need to get this show on the

01:11:38.300 road so we can get as many people up here to debate.

01:11:39.960 So go ahead.

01:11:40.500 You got one minute.

01:11:41.400 So I don't understand, like, why you're arguing to people in a community that they should bring

01:11:46.600 criminals back into it.

01:11:48.480 Like, you argue things that you don't possess.

01:11:51.080 Like, a moral dimension.

01:11:52.980 Like, you don't give a fuck about America.

01:11:55.460 You're on the side that kills children, 50 million babies in the last 50 fucking years,

01:12:01.380 325,000 children fucking sex traffic, fucking 50,000 little girls had their...

01:12:09.080 Because of the way your party fucking votes, you're leading us to a path that only leads

01:12:15.460 in violence, and I want to know fucking why.

01:12:18.160 Yeah, so...

01:12:19.660 Sit down.

01:12:22.220 In the industry, we call that a gish gallop.

01:12:24.760 So you just raise a bunch of different issues that are not topical, abortion, trans issues,

01:12:29.760 and basically, like, you're doing anything, right?

01:12:35.000 And I can tell to distract from the issue at hand, which is, is this just, and should it

01:12:40.240 be brought back?

01:12:40.960 Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:12:42.180 How did you just talk about a break?

01:12:43.160 I want to, point, point of order, point of order, point of order.

01:12:46.620 Gish, gish gallop does not apply when we actually tell him he gets one minute unfettered to make

01:12:50.960 it.

01:12:51.000 Yeah, to whatever.

01:12:51.640 Well, it could still, wait, you could still get your minute.

01:12:53.200 He doesn't understand.

01:12:54.700 You still get, you still get your, you still get your minute, but I'm just telling you,

01:12:57.500 you're all over the place, all right?

01:12:58.640 So try to stay focused.

01:13:00.920 The issue isn't, so would you agree that Kilmar, Abedero Garcia, has the right to a presumption

01:13:07.320 of innocence of the people who are accusing him of crimes, yes or no?

01:13:10.160 Why are you continuing to argue positions that will bring society to violence?

01:13:15.700 So do we, should there be a presumption of innocence, yes or no?

01:13:18.200 No.

01:13:18.840 For an illegal alien?

01:13:20.300 No.

01:13:20.700 He's not fucking innocent.

01:13:22.160 He's here illegally.

01:13:23.760 Deport him.

01:13:24.360 Why do you want American citizens to pay more fucking money to bring him back to deport

01:13:29.980 him again?

01:13:30.800 That's fucking retarded.

01:13:32.580 Should U.S.

01:13:32.900 murderers get trials?

01:13:35.260 United citizens do.

01:13:37.660 Like, if you're an illegal alien, you fucking don't.

01:13:40.840 The due process is, are you a citizen?

01:13:43.080 No.

01:13:43.560 Okay, get the fuck out.

01:13:45.160 Calm the fuck down, right?

01:13:46.120 Don't tell him to calm down.

01:13:47.300 Yeah, I'll tell him to calm down.

01:13:48.400 I'll tell him to calm down.

01:13:49.040 I'll tell him to calm down.

01:13:49.520 We love the fashion, but we'll turn it.

01:13:51.260 You look like you're about to blow a fucking gas.

01:13:52.480 You look like you're going to blow a fucking gas.

01:13:53.540 Don't listen to those libtards or that libtard.

01:13:56.260 Don't listen to them.

01:13:57.680 I grew up with a loud family, so eight or seven is my regular.

01:14:01.580 We have a constitution.

01:14:02.920 We should follow it.

01:14:04.120 That's what being American means.

01:14:05.740 We should follow the fucking constitution.

01:14:06.600 Okay, then the fucking Biden administration shouldn't have let 20 fucking million illegals

01:14:10.920 in.

01:14:11.120 What about ism?

01:14:12.020 What about ism?

01:14:12.560 Wait, wait, wait.

01:14:13.200 So should we follow the constitution or not, sir?

01:14:16.780 Yes.

01:14:17.600 Okay, so if the constitution, so you just said, he just said we should follow the constitution.

01:14:22.440 If the constitution says that these people do get due process rights, should we follow

01:14:25.840 that?

01:14:26.980 So the constitution-

01:14:28.280 Yes or no?

01:14:30.160 No.

01:14:31.100 No.

01:14:31.840 So you don't think we should follow the constitution when you decide?

01:14:34.800 Yes.

01:14:34.980 How about asking me why on my opinions instead of just fucking assuming like every fucking

01:14:39.720 midwit leftist does?

01:14:40.840 This is a lot.

01:14:41.980 So he said, we should follow the constitution.

01:14:44.060 And then the next thing I asked him, I said, if it says that these people should get rights

01:14:47.640 under the constitution, should we follow?

01:14:49.280 They said, no.

01:14:49.840 So explain that.

01:14:50.440 And so let me interject here.

01:14:52.320 Because I think I know exactly what you're saying when you brought up Biden letting in

01:14:55.620 20 million illegal immigrants.

01:14:57.700 As Bill Ackman stated, a country that lets in 20 million people unvetted, but then cannot

01:15:03.340 remove them will lose its democratic values.

01:15:05.860 An untenable- Listen, I want due process for everybody.

01:15:10.380 I want constitutional rights where they apply.

01:15:12.520 I am scared and confused right now because we have an untenable situation with immigration

01:15:18.740 caused by Democrats.

01:15:20.840 I don't know what to do.

01:15:22.780 So when you come out and say, we are now shackled to a system that will kill our country,

01:15:29.040 I say, I don't know that anyone will accept that.

01:15:31.420 All we can do is tell the left to stop because you're leading us towards violence.

01:15:37.000 You are leading the country towards violence.

01:15:39.960 Fucking stop.

01:15:41.240 Every one of your arguments is wrong and full of every fucking logical fallacy we could

01:15:46.100 think of.

01:15:47.200 Shut the fuck up.

01:15:48.420 Stop arguing for fucking destroying our country.

01:15:51.840 So the enemy is within.

01:15:53.440 The people who are destroying this country, the people who are destroying this country are

01:15:57.920 the bootlicking shills, the bootlicking shills who just trust the government, who just trust

01:16:04.080 the government.

01:16:04.860 Listen, like fucking Democrats with the Biden administration.

01:16:09.400 No, you guys didn't criticize a single fucking thing they did.

01:16:12.860 Guys, guys, guys, guys.

01:16:13.780 No one in this room trusted the government under the Biden administration.

01:16:18.160 You did.

01:16:18.960 One guy did.

01:16:19.620 All right.

01:16:19.880 We're good.

01:16:20.480 So the point is when you say they're bootlicking shills, it's every four years.

01:16:24.100 The Democrats say you're a bootlicking shill, then four years later, they're the bootlicking

01:16:27.620 shills.

01:16:28.120 So just to be clear, the reason why we want to follow the Constitution, even if there are

01:16:32.440 people you don't like, and you can raise a lot of stink about people you don't like

01:16:35.360 and why we should break the law to go after them, is we don't trust in the next four years

01:16:39.060 you're not going to get a president AOC.

01:16:41.420 You're not going to get a president, whoever the fucking worst leftist is that you think.

01:16:44.860 And now that you've made a road to the Constitution, you've made a road for your own back,

01:16:48.400 and they're going to come after you, and they're going to attack your first-man rights.

01:16:50.920 You guys all understand this.

01:16:52.160 We will erode whenever we have to, to stop you, because you've been eroding it for centuries.

01:16:58.320 So the real enemies are those who would tell you to give up your country, give up the

01:17:01.700 Constitution, don't follow it.

01:17:03.140 You took our fucking country with the Biden administration.

01:17:06.220 Yeah, yeah.

01:17:08.580 This is why I brought up the question before to hear Will.

01:17:14.020 Will's like a very straight-laced forward.

01:17:16.160 I'm a lawyer.

01:17:16.740 I'll answer his questions.

01:17:17.620 That's why I wanted to hear what he had to say about it.

01:17:19.760 Here's my view.

01:17:20.480 Uh, you guys know me.

01:17:22.560 When I was young, I despised the Bush administration.

01:17:26.280 Obama came in, and, you know, before he did, I was like, everyone's telling me it's going

01:17:29.580 to be different.

01:17:30.160 Then, boy, that motherfucker killed a lot of people, and spied on people, and the National

01:17:34.220 Defense Authorization Act, indefinite detention provision.

01:17:36.220 I said, holy shit, fuck these people.

01:17:37.580 Then Trump ran against Hillary.

01:17:39.120 And I said, holy fuck, this country is insane.

01:17:41.680 Trump wins.

01:17:42.480 And for the most part, I'm like, I don't care for this shit.

01:17:44.340 Then the Democrats started losing their fucking minds with DEI and weird fucking shit.

01:17:50.760 And then Trump, in 2020, said, I got no new wars.

01:17:53.820 I'm setting up a timeline for withdrawal from Afghanistan.

01:17:55.760 I'm getting rid of DEI and government contracting.

01:17:57.860 I said, actually, this is pretty good.

01:17:59.920 But what did they do to the man for those four years?

01:18:02.940 They accused him of being a traitor to this country.

01:18:05.100 Then, after this, they started arresting his lawyers.

01:18:07.700 They falsely accused him of crimes.

01:18:09.120 They claim that a misdemeanor charge, which arguably could be a single count, was 34 felonies.

01:18:14.580 They create a new law in New York so that a woman can say, 30 years ago, he sexually abused me.

01:18:19.520 I can't prove it.

01:18:20.420 I wore a dress from the future, and I had a magic key to open the door.

01:18:23.480 And I'm sitting here watching numerous Trump lawyers get arrested.

01:18:27.200 Now we're in the Trump administration, and they're begging me, please, please, stick to decorum.

01:18:33.300 Don't arrest lawyers.

01:18:34.520 Don't arrest judges.

01:18:35.440 Motherfucker, you did it first.

01:18:37.040 You did this to us.

01:18:38.300 And now we're upset and saying, what do we do?

01:18:41.320 Welcome to the civil war you started.

01:18:43.920 Yeah, yeah.

01:18:44.420 All right, guys, give it up.

01:18:45.820 Hey, what's your name?

01:18:46.820 Say your name before you go.

01:18:48.160 I'm Nicholas Steinbrecher, lost and found on Discord, also representing the Jamcast Discord.

01:18:55.220 Thank you, Nick.

01:18:56.380 All right, now our next debater, their name is Cash.

01:18:59.780 Did you want to respond to that?

01:19:01.080 I'm sorry.

01:19:01.840 I just wanted to have a quick point.

01:19:03.600 Did you agree with the offense guy?

01:19:04.880 No, I mean, I don't agree with them, obviously.

01:19:07.920 Yeah, right, like, he's a little more aggressive than I would be.

01:19:11.740 But I think my substantive point would be that, like, much of your argument is, like, we really need to not open Pandora's box.

01:19:17.220 And I would just say, I think Pandora's box has been opened pretty darn widely.

01:19:20.180 Okay, we can talk about that.

01:19:20.980 You know, so.

01:19:21.920 All right, Cash.

01:19:23.040 Cash, you got the mic.

01:19:25.040 The floor is yours.

01:19:25.820 All right, guys.

01:19:26.160 I'm warning everyone here.

01:19:27.120 I am a libtard.

01:19:28.060 I think I'm one of the only ones in the room.

01:19:29.140 Oh, my gosh.

01:19:29.780 Some of you are going to argue with me?

01:19:31.500 Oh, my gosh.

01:19:32.340 Thank you.

01:19:32.720 Thank you, Pisco, for inviting me.

01:19:33.680 He needs a break.

01:19:34.200 Of course, of course.

01:19:34.880 Oh, yeah, that's right.

01:19:35.900 Grab the mic and hold it up so we can hear you.

01:19:37.780 So I'm an American exceptionalist.

01:19:39.600 I love this country.

01:19:40.720 I love this Constitution.

01:19:41.760 I think Pisco brought up this point.

01:19:43.540 I mean, I can read out, like, the amendment that says that people have the rights to due

01:19:47.600 process, regardless if you are a illegal or a citizen.

01:19:51.160 I think that just needs to be cleared up first, that Pisco is the pro-Constitution person here.

01:19:55.320 Every single person, I heard them screaming in the room saying, illegal immigrants don't

01:19:58.820 get due process.

01:19:59.520 That is against the Constitution, just to clarify that first.

01:20:02.100 Second of all, I also think it's important to acknowledge that I trust the U.S. government

01:20:06.220 more so with processing someone that we'd all agree is probably a bad guy, Kilmar Abrego

01:20:10.320 Garcia, than some random, you know, prison in El Salvador.

01:20:13.540 I think we have a good justice system, as many of you guys might disagree.

01:20:17.060 It's crazy to me that you guys disagree with the six Republican Supreme Court justices that

01:20:21.860 said that we need to facilitate his return.

01:20:24.480 Rule of law is very important in this country.

01:20:26.580 And I don't know what you guys would be saying.

01:20:28.020 I think Pisco hinted at this.

01:20:29.020 If AOC becomes president and all of a sudden says that the January Sixers are a bigger threat

01:20:34.100 to this country than the illegal immigrants, then deports them with no due process, you

01:20:37.340 guys will all be crying your asses out.

01:20:38.580 100% true, base, base, base, base.

01:20:39.860 All right.

01:20:40.240 Grab the seat, brother.

01:20:40.900 Let me just respond to that.

01:20:42.040 That already happened.

01:20:43.620 Bullshit.

01:20:44.080 All those people got trials.

01:20:45.680 Everyone in the dance.

01:20:46.380 And then they all got due process.

01:20:49.000 All of them got due process.

01:20:50.560 And then these criminal terrorist insurrectionist thugs got let out by the criminal in the

01:20:54.960 Oval Office right now.

01:20:55.860 Let me just ask that.

01:20:56.400 Illegally occupying the office.

01:20:57.960 I would just like to ask a procedural question to our lawyer friends here.

01:21:01.020 If evidence is denied to the accused parties, is that due process?

01:21:06.360 Yeah, it wasn't denied.

01:21:07.100 It would be a violation of due process, but it wasn't actually denied.

01:21:09.660 That's not what I asked.

01:21:10.040 It wasn't actually denied.

01:21:10.900 That's not what I asked.

01:21:11.380 Whether the evidence is admissible, right?

01:21:13.520 It would depend if it's admissible.

01:21:15.500 It's a whole doctrine on Brady that would apply, and so I would need to know the specific

01:21:18.960 facts.

01:21:19.400 And also, I'm not an expert on Brady.

01:21:20.240 So, what did we have, 44,000 hours of footage, not, that, that, that, this was a lie, and

01:21:26.360 this was denied on the merits and the courts.

01:21:28.140 So, wait, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, go for it, Will.

01:21:31.960 Okay, the actual real, like, the best argument about the failure of due process in the J6 cases

01:21:37.320 was the fact that change of venue motions got denied.

01:21:40.940 There's no excuse that any of these trials happened in D.C.

01:21:44.060 Where the crime was committed?

01:21:45.600 In a 97% Democratic district.

01:21:47.360 Who the fuck cares?

01:21:48.120 You committed the crime in a place, you do the time there, you do the trial there.

01:21:50.700 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I thought you cared about fair trials.

01:21:52.580 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:21:53.180 Whoa, whoa, whoa, why did that happen?

01:21:54.460 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:21:56.460 It's a white guy.

01:21:57.420 You don't want a fair trial anymore, do you?

01:21:59.440 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

01:21:59.700 So, doesn't the Constitution specify, doesn't the Constitution, doesn't the Constitution specify

01:22:05.580 that there is a venue provision that when you committed a crime, it shall be tried in the

01:22:09.560 district in which it was committed.

01:22:10.400 Yeah, but that venue is not defeated by due process and the right to a fair trial.

01:22:13.980 So, there's a presumption, there's a presumption that a jury is able to put aside their bias,

01:22:18.500 their political bias.

01:22:19.300 Yeah, but that presumption's not absolute.

01:22:20.800 What happens if a black defendant is facing a jury of all white and, like, the prosecutors

01:22:25.400 excluding?

01:22:25.720 It's a high burden to get rid of that jury.

01:22:27.500 Yeah, I don't know.

01:22:28.200 I mean, well, think about this, you know.

01:22:34.580 I'm not saying that.

01:22:35.440 No, I'm saying it's a high burden to show that it's racially, you know, unconstitutional.

01:22:39.800 I mean, you see, like, if you look at the polling, I want to make this point, because

01:22:44.160 this is, I think, the key issue, which I think liberals allied all the time.

01:22:47.860 You look at the polling on, like, for example, whether liberal parents would be happy if their

01:22:52.160 child came home with a conservative partner to marry.

01:22:54.800 They're not.

01:22:55.260 And, in fact, in general, this number is higher than in a world where, like, than cross-racial.

01:23:01.000 So, I mean, I'm sorry.

01:23:02.160 Like, the way that there's polarization in this country between Republicans and Democrats, which

01:23:05.720 is literally demonstrated by this room, and also a lot of, like, the things,

01:23:08.080 intemperate things you've said about, like, the people in this room, is demonstrating

01:23:12.000 that there's not a jury of your peers, and the J-6ers didn't get fair trials.

01:23:16.060 Let me ask you another question.

01:23:17.620 Is it due process if the prosecution uses information from after the trial happened to

01:23:22.880 seek a greater sentence on the individual, based on speech of the individual?

01:23:27.080 No.

01:23:27.500 Why would it be?

01:23:27.900 Not necessarily.

01:23:28.460 That is not a violent way.

01:23:29.920 As to whether or not you have regret, whether or not you – there are factors of sentencing

01:23:33.600 that you're able to – you know, that the judge has discretion to weigh.

01:23:36.380 Your speech.

01:23:36.920 That aren't – yes.

01:23:38.040 Yes, your speech.

01:23:38.760 So, for example, I'll give you a case.

01:23:39.820 Like, Martin Shkreli.

01:23:40.500 You guys know Martin Shkreli?

01:23:41.340 Of course, yes.

01:23:42.380 So, Shkreli – and this is actually – you know, I think Shkreli can be funny sometimes.

01:23:45.620 But he, like, talks shit about Hillary Clinton when he did – he had his trial or something.

01:23:49.360 And then the judge, like, yeah, sentences him more.

01:23:51.260 Now, you might disagree with that, but it just is the case that judges are allowed a great deal

01:23:55.240 of discretion at sentencing, and that's our system.

01:23:56.940 Okay, can I introduce kind of a new topic a little bit?

01:23:59.100 Because I feel like we're going to delve down the –

01:24:00.100 Yeah, you've got less than a minute, though.

01:24:01.240 Go ahead.

01:24:01.700 Let's give him time.

01:24:02.680 We haven't had a liberal yet.

01:24:03.720 Yeah, I know.

01:24:04.380 That's what I'm saying.

01:24:05.100 We'll talk.

01:24:05.700 Hey, Cash.

01:24:06.540 Say something.

01:24:08.000 Gosh.

01:24:08.480 I think that Pisco hinted at – and I was kind of talking about this in my opening speech – is that

01:24:12.940 what's important to recognize here is that it sets a precedent.

01:24:15.660 These laws set a bad precedent.

01:24:17.120 I think we should also talk about Mahmoud Khalil.

01:24:19.400 I go to Georgetown.

01:24:20.420 There was a guy that was in our grad department that got deported for supporting Palestine.

01:24:24.860 Literally just for supporting Palestine.

01:24:26.780 I just want to hear the conservatives here that if AOC gets elected and designates Israel

01:24:31.480 as a terrorist state and starts deporting a bunch of pro-Israel people – I'm Jewish.

01:24:35.360 I'm pro-Israel.

01:24:36.020 I'd be afraid that you conservatives have opened the floodgates for free speech to be completely

01:24:40.400 violated.

01:24:40.860 Wait, wait.

01:24:41.140 Because Trump is breaking these laws.

01:24:42.100 I will answer this.

01:24:42.920 It takes two to tango with these laws.

01:24:45.080 That's an incredibly important record.

01:24:45.920 I will answer your point.

01:24:46.920 If you manage to get AOC to be president and she, in her bizarre wisdom – I mean,

01:24:55.420 not wisdom, right?

01:24:57.340 But if she decides to say, you know what?

01:25:00.400 Like, if we think the IDF is a terrorist organization, you manage to classify it as such, and then you

01:25:05.540 say Israelis who advocated on behalf of the IDF, she would have the authority to do so under

01:25:08.940 our laws.

01:25:09.720 Like, she could deport Israeli students.

01:25:11.140 She has the authority to give them due process.

01:25:13.960 Wait, wait, wait.

01:25:13.980 Bro, bro, bro.

01:25:15.860 So, I would argue that a large – I don't know the exact numbers, but the Trump base is

01:25:21.920 split between anti-interventionist, bye-bye Israel, and pro-Israel.

01:25:25.960 There's a lot of people who are pro-Israel, but when the argument you make about the conservatives,

01:25:29.780 you're going to find a lot of them are more like conservatarian, being like, yeah, I don't

01:25:32.520 give a shit about Israel.

01:25:33.180 That's his point.

01:25:33.880 He's trying to –

01:25:34.620 They're not going to disagree.

01:25:35.740 They're going to cheer you on.

01:25:37.700 We're engaging in a hypothetical here.

01:25:39.100 Here's my point.

01:25:39.900 Wait, wait, wait.

01:25:40.520 I mean, I guess I'll – you know, the fundamental answer is I'm happy with the Khalil deportation.

01:25:46.340 The guy hates our country.

01:25:47.380 He's a guest.

01:25:48.180 He can go home.

01:25:49.080 Like, sorry.

01:25:49.920 You want to go out there and be like –

01:25:51.440 I think people that rioted the Capitol hate this country more than someone criticizing

01:25:55.440 foreign policy.

01:25:56.660 All the people on green card that destroyed the Capitol should be deported immediately.

01:26:00.880 That is the same.

01:26:01.640 I got a question.

01:26:02.380 Hating this country.

01:26:03.560 Hating this country.

01:26:04.540 Some of them are not citizens that destroyed the Capitol.

01:26:07.080 I got a question for Will.

01:26:08.060 Now, you said he's a guest in our country.

01:26:10.260 Oh, Will.

01:26:10.520 Yeah.

01:26:11.440 He's a guest in our country.

01:26:12.580 He hates our country, so we could deport him.

01:26:14.500 Yes.

01:26:15.380 And that is – the State Department has the discretion just to say, we revoke your visa.

01:26:20.900 Is there a specific criteria by which you think they're required?

01:26:24.080 Or do you think it's unilateral?

01:26:25.520 No.

01:26:26.060 You're a guest.

01:26:26.580 Get the fuck out.

01:26:27.080 Under law?

01:26:27.820 I mean, honestly, the Secretary of State – I mean, there's a provision that was used in

01:26:31.720 this case, which is the Secretary of State said, this guy's continued presence in the

01:26:34.980 country is damaging to American foreign policy.

01:26:37.340 That is very vague.

01:26:38.220 Wait, wait, wait.

01:26:38.720 I got to follow.

01:26:39.140 AOC's president.

01:26:39.660 I got to follow.

01:26:40.020 I got to follow.

01:26:40.720 I got to follow.

01:26:40.940 I understand that.

01:26:41.780 This will be slow, but I just think that's the law.

01:26:43.260 President AOC in 2029 says, Stephen Crowder, you are a guest in this country.

01:26:49.380 Get the fuck out of here.

01:26:50.240 True.

01:26:50.520 He's a citizen, so that doesn't matter.

01:26:52.260 Viva Fry.

01:26:52.840 Stephen Crowder's on green card.

01:26:54.360 Viva Fry?

01:26:55.100 Viva Fry.

01:26:55.700 Viva Fry better start enjoying poutine again because he's got to go back – I said he's

01:26:59.560 got to enjoy poutine again because he's got to go back to Canada.

01:27:01.220 All right.

01:27:01.520 So here's a question.

01:27:02.540 We love you, Viva.

01:27:03.300 Under that framework, Will, just a quick question.

01:27:05.120 The first thing that relates to speech, it also relates to the religion clauses.

01:27:08.480 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free

01:27:11.680 exercise thereof.

01:27:12.500 So under that discretion, can the State Department say Muslims, as a general rule, are damaging,

01:27:18.240 prejudicial to our foreign policy interests, and then we're going to get rid of them?

01:27:21.900 That's an interesting question because I'm not sure there's a statutory – I mean, I

01:27:27.720 guess you could make an – I haven't really thought about that one.

01:27:29.380 The question is, it doesn't matter what the INA says if it violates a right like the

01:27:33.080 free exercise clause.

01:27:34.600 The Supreme Court's already resolved this.

01:27:35.760 There's just not a First Amendment defense to removal.

01:27:37.800 Wait, wait, wait.

01:27:38.360 I don't think there is.

01:27:39.620 Of course there is.

01:27:40.260 We defend the right to speak on foreign issues.

01:27:42.060 I do really like this question because it also strikes at how do we define religion

01:27:46.280 legally?

01:27:47.280 And if we're dealing with terrorist organizations, would we allow them to use religion as a shield

01:27:53.840 for their extremist ideologies or do we separate that legally?

01:27:57.380 Right.

01:27:57.660 Because that also – I mean, if religion – free practice of religion, then it's like

01:28:02.040 you can't – I mean, maybe supporting a terrorist organization as a core religious belief.

01:28:07.060 But just to be clear, so you're opening the door – is it Caleb, sorry?

01:28:11.460 Cash.

01:28:11.920 Cash, sorry.

01:28:12.640 As Cash said, if you're going to allow this big room, this big hole in the First Amendment

01:28:16.640 for certain speech in favor of Hamas, now you're opening the door for, okay, if you're

01:28:21.260 a Christian and you're not a citizen, we can deport you just because you're a Christian.

01:28:24.920 You invaded the Capitol.

01:28:26.480 I mean, you're not a citizen.

01:28:27.680 I want to say to you what you said, just to answer your question, you said, if President

01:28:32.800 AOC – what you described, most people feel happened already with Biden.

01:28:37.700 And they're wrong.

01:28:38.480 What do you mean?

01:28:39.200 Explain they're wrong.

01:28:39.980 No, no, no.

01:28:40.640 It's not wrong that someone felt a way.

01:28:42.960 Yeah, but it's – okay, I feel that you're all wrong.

01:28:45.020 Yeah, I feel that you're wrong.

01:28:45.840 What are you saying?

01:28:46.280 And I do agree that you feel we're wrong.

01:28:48.540 My point is, you said –

01:28:49.540 You're saying nothing.

01:28:50.140 I don't understand.

01:28:50.680 You said, how would you feel if AOC became president and designated the group?

01:28:53.440 It's a way of asking the question.

01:28:54.620 Obviously, you understand.

01:28:55.480 What I'm trying to point out is the hypocrisy here that, of course, if AOC started deporting

01:28:59.140 people that are dangerous.

01:28:59.620 And what I'm pointing out is the circumstance you described already happened.

01:29:02.260 No, it didn't.

01:29:02.960 It actually did.

01:29:04.100 There were Israeli advocates of, like, who were opposed to the two-bank solution, and Biden

01:29:08.460 denied their visas simply on the ground.

01:29:10.400 Whoa.

01:29:10.860 Denying a visa is different than someone already in the country.

01:29:13.600 It's not even – it's a lie.

01:29:15.360 You're lying.

01:29:15.800 You're lying.

01:29:16.120 You're lying.

01:29:16.140 I am not lying about that.

01:29:17.460 You're talking about – you're making a false equivalency.

01:29:19.800 You're making a false equivalency.

01:29:20.840 Obviously, denying a visa is a different –

01:29:22.560 Don't keep saying lying when you say I'm a false equivalency.

01:29:23.180 Listen, listen.

01:29:23.880 It is basically the same.

01:29:25.220 You're intentionally misrepresenting a case for political points.

01:29:28.140 I didn't misrepresent.

01:29:29.440 He could just be wrong, or he could just disagree with him.

01:29:33.080 This is not the point that I was making.

01:29:33.980 You're not lying.

01:29:34.740 I didn't misrepresent.

01:29:35.840 Let me tell you a story, and I want to hear your reaction to it.

01:29:38.720 Please.

01:29:39.500 There was a man and a woman in their mid-40s.

01:29:42.800 Several hours after the event of January 6th, they were in D.C.

01:29:47.340 They live in Maryland.

01:29:48.820 They walked up on the backside of the Capitol where there was no violence and nothing was going on.

01:29:53.760 The doors were open.

01:29:55.080 There were no barricades.

01:29:56.020 They walked up to the building.

01:29:57.580 No police in sight.

01:29:59.120 They walked into the building and looked around taking pictures and walked out after about three or four minutes.

01:30:04.640 Should they go to prison?

01:30:06.760 It depends.

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01:31:02.880 On what?

01:31:03.880 I love that answer.

01:31:04.780 It's the ultimate answer.

01:31:05.660 It depends.

01:31:06.240 I'll say intuitively no.

01:31:07.800 Sure.

01:31:08.160 Well, they fucking did.

01:31:09.360 Okay.

01:31:09.660 Do you know what's great, though?

01:31:10.860 Is that they now have due process, and they're going to go through.

01:31:13.880 100%.

01:31:14.400 My point.

01:31:15.660 If a court finds them.

01:31:16.640 I understand.

01:31:17.220 My point was, what you describe about AOC going after people happened to people who bumbled upon the Capitol not knowing what was going on.

01:31:24.780 Tim, I have a question.

01:31:25.800 Yeah.

01:31:26.260 If AOC took that case and just deported them instead of getting due process, would you be more mad?

01:31:30.420 Deported American citizens.

01:31:31.840 I would be mad, yes.

01:31:33.380 Okay, sorry, sorry.

01:31:34.280 I'll give you one.

01:31:35.080 Do you understand what I'm asking?

01:31:35.880 If Donald Trump sends American citizens to the seat, I'll be mad.

01:31:38.380 Well, he says he wants to be, you agree he said he wants to do that, right?

01:31:42.020 And it's wrong to have said it.

01:31:43.560 Okay, cool.

01:31:43.920 And it should never happen, and I will always be mad.

01:31:45.540 So do you condemn him for saying it?

01:31:47.140 I condemn, well, let me, let me.

01:31:49.820 Multiple times, multiple times?

01:31:51.000 Right.

01:31:51.420 Let me say this.

01:31:52.440 You won't because you're beholden to the administration.

01:31:53.860 Do you condemn him or you're going to see it for beating his wife?

01:31:56.380 I want to try to help people understand things.

01:31:58.500 So let me give you an answer.

01:32:00.380 Piers Morgan asked me the other day, if Joe Biden did the things Trump did, would you praise him for it?

01:32:05.960 And I said, no, probably not.

01:32:08.020 You asked me before the show.

01:32:10.180 You realize that's unhinged, right?

01:32:11.500 Something similar.

01:32:12.100 And I said, the issue is that Donald Trump largely represents my moral worldview, which means I'm tolerant of his failings.

01:32:18.540 So morals mean you can violate the Constitution?

01:32:20.420 That's what you're saying.

01:32:21.080 You won't condemn him for it.

01:32:21.440 Let me finish what I'm saying.

01:32:22.240 You're saying your morals, your subjective morals can violate the Constitution.

01:32:25.480 Let me finish what I'm saying.

01:32:27.300 Joe Biden largely represents things that are antithetical to my worldviews.

01:32:31.480 This is not about whether or not someone could violate the Constitution, because I already told you, Trump sending Americans to CECOT is a bad thing.

01:32:38.080 But you won't condemn him for saying it.

01:32:39.720 Okay, so you condemn him for violating the Constitution.

01:32:42.440 Just say it.

01:32:42.900 Say yes and I'll let you finish.

01:32:44.100 You are loading the question.

01:32:45.280 I'm not loading the question.

01:32:46.060 It's literally, he violated the Constitution.

01:32:47.760 Do you support it, yes or not?

01:32:48.580 We are talking about if he were to do something, not did he do something.

01:32:52.600 If he already did something, we're asking you to condemn that.

01:32:54.520 If Donald Trump sent American citizens to CECOT, I would condemn him for that.

01:32:58.520 But he said he wants to do it, so do you condemn that?

01:33:00.260 I condemn those statements.

01:33:01.760 You condemn him saying that.

01:33:02.060 Okay, cool, cool.

01:33:03.100 100%.

01:33:03.500 I appreciate that.

01:33:04.040 I also will tell you this.

01:33:05.440 Donald Trump should be criminally investigated for the killing of Abdulrahman Al-Awlaki's little sister in Yemen.

01:33:10.900 He gets no free passes from me, but we don't know for sure.

01:33:14.420 What we do know is that Obama admitted to it.

01:33:16.500 We know there's been accusations about Trump.

01:33:18.340 My response is accusations warrant investigation.

01:33:21.300 Admission warrant something more.

01:33:23.000 And yet, when it comes to Trump administration officials and their misconduct, like Signalgate, for example,

01:33:27.520 he'll say an inside job.

01:33:31.420 So what he'll do is true.

01:33:34.520 With all due respect, with all due respect, with respect to your statements on Signalgate,

01:33:39.020 and for time, I just don't, I understand Signalgate, but I don't think it rises to,

01:33:44.200 I lay two things forward.

01:33:46.780 Trump has been accused of murdering a 7-year-old American girl.

01:33:50.040 Obama admitted that his administration killed a 16-year-old American citizen.

01:33:53.240 Neither of them were criminals.

01:33:54.640 I don't want to muddy that with Signalgate because there's such a substantive difference.

01:33:57.480 Wait, Tim, I think you got sidetracked from your point on Piers Morgan, though.

01:33:59.720 Were you going to finish that?

01:34:00.620 Why do you think that it's okay if Joe Biden does terrorists, but Trump doesn't?

01:34:03.700 Can you defend that to me?

01:34:04.940 That was my point.

01:34:06.200 Just because Trump is more moral?

01:34:07.700 Let me explain it.

01:34:10.400 That's called moral inconsistency.

01:34:11.760 No, no, it's called, listen, Donald Trump wants to secure our borders.

01:34:16.460 Our borders should be secure.

01:34:17.860 Donald Trump wants to enforce the law that I think should be enforced properly.

01:34:22.200 Joe Biden was advocating for child sterilization, okay, child sex change operations, I think are pure evil.

01:34:29.880 Joe Biden took classified documents with him, and it's explicitly stated it was because he wanted to write a book that he could sell.

01:34:36.280 And then he complied with the FBI when they asked him for it.

01:34:38.400 Guess what Trump didn't do when he had documents?

01:34:40.160 And his ghostwriter destroyed the evidence, worried that it was something wrong.

01:34:44.440 My point is this.

01:34:45.120 His ghostwriter, not Joe Biden, to clarify.

01:34:46.520 You and everybody else in this country has a moral worldview.

01:34:50.420 It is the utmost naivete to say, no, I don't, I'm on principle.

01:34:54.180 Not true at all.

01:34:55.820 Not true at all.

01:34:56.640 Yeah, but that doesn't respond to, all right, come on, calm down.

01:35:00.320 What you're saying doesn't really respond to what I'm asking.

01:35:02.780 If you have morals, are some of those morals to say, not fuck up the economy with tariffs or violate the Constitution?

01:35:08.260 I'm pro-tariff.

01:35:09.240 You're pro-tariff?

01:35:10.520 I'm not pro-universal tariffs the way Trump did.

01:35:13.320 I'm pro his selective tariffs.

01:35:14.420 Just to clarify, I watched that Piers Morgan thing.

01:35:16.740 You said Trump handled the, you know, he asked about the economy doing bad, and then you were like, yeah, if Joe Biden did the exact same thing, I wouldn't defend it.

01:35:24.420 What you're saying does not answer that question at all.

01:35:26.560 You understand that, right?

01:35:27.220 Let me try and explain it again.

01:35:28.460 Yes.

01:35:29.520 The simplest way I can do it without going into, like, I don't know, the Qatar Turkey pipeline, the Suez Canal, the Crimea, and all of the things we can talk about with Michael Zalczewski, Biden's actions overseas.

01:35:42.600 We don't need to get into that.

01:35:43.420 Sure.

01:35:43.600 I'll just keep it surface level and as simple as possible.

01:35:46.460 Biden is for child sex changes.

01:35:48.780 Trump opposed.

01:35:49.020 So that means that if he does something-

01:35:50.780 Let me answer your question.

01:35:51.540 Yes, okay.

01:35:51.940 Sorry.

01:35:53.040 I love you.

01:35:53.520 I promise.

01:35:53.660 Now, do you want me to give you a one-hour essay thesis on everything Joe Biden did that I think was criminal, wrong, and he's going to jail for it?

01:36:00.360 Hey, Biden, we get it.

01:36:01.280 I'm trying to avoid doing that by saying very simply, what Donald Trump represents morally, as for America, is much more in line with my worldview.

01:36:10.180 I can get into great detail on the Burisma scandal, if you want me to, or Tony Bobulinski, or Devin Archer.

01:36:15.900 We should have that debate, by the way.

01:36:16.860 I can get into all in action.

01:36:17.320 We don't have that much time because you're going to kick him off stage.

01:36:18.580 No, no, no, hold on.

01:36:19.240 He wants to hear the Qatar Turkey pipeline.

01:36:21.300 Okay, so in 2009, we don't want to go there.

01:36:24.640 But I absolutely could, for the sake of time, I will just say this.

01:36:28.040 Trump, in my opinion, universal tariffs doesn't make sense.

01:36:32.200 I am skeptical of it, but I am largely biased in favor of Trump's moral worldview and hopeful that his administration has a plan that will bear out positively.

01:36:42.600 That being said, I'm not entirely sure universal tariffs do.

01:36:46.260 Selective tariffs, I'm a big fan of because I believe, being a manufacturer of skateboards, I can tell you directly as an industry, how free trade destroyed an industry and destroyed people's lives.

01:36:56.420 Okay, sure.

01:36:56.920 I guess you did respond.

01:36:58.740 You just reaffirmed what you said.

01:36:59.700 And now, Joe Biden, with all the things he's done that I think are bad, were he to enact universal tariffs, I do not trust him because I believe him to be an amoral crackpot, so I would not give him the benefit of the doubt.

01:37:12.060 So what you're saying is that you cannot acknowledge when something is bad just because the person might have a good intention?

01:37:17.040 I literally said the tariffs were done poorly, and that I'm skeptical of them.

01:37:20.860 Okay.

01:37:21.300 You said you support universal tariffs, but when Biden does what you don't.

01:37:24.000 I do not support universal tariffs.

01:37:25.740 Yeah, he said selective tariffs.

01:37:26.440 Okay, Cash, get off.

01:37:27.280 Okay, sorry.

01:37:27.880 So I have my friend Alex and Max.

01:37:29.800 Thank you for coming up.

01:37:30.720 That was great.

01:37:31.120 Thank you, Cash.

01:37:31.820 Okay, hold on.

01:37:32.320 I love all of you.

01:37:33.280 You just got to read the Constitution better.

01:37:34.760 Much love.

01:37:35.120 Okay, thank you.

01:37:36.860 All right.

01:37:37.480 Now, is the transgender, do you have balls enough to come up here yet?

01:37:41.080 We're gone.

01:37:42.020 I know.

01:37:42.440 Well, then come in.

01:37:43.100 Tell us about it.

01:37:44.260 Come on.

01:37:44.740 We only have a couple people.

01:37:45.740 Come on.

01:37:46.200 You don't get to come here and not say something.

01:37:48.000 You don't get me.

01:37:49.120 Oh, my God.

01:37:50.320 You know, it's funny.

01:37:50.860 For not having a pussy, you sure act like one.

01:37:53.720 I'm tired.

01:37:55.680 There's a certain amount of no's we'll respect.

01:37:57.440 I know.

01:37:58.240 Okay.

01:37:58.760 All right.

01:37:59.080 All right.

01:37:59.460 Is that Tyler, right?

01:38:00.720 Have you been wondering?

01:38:01.540 No, no.

01:38:01.960 What's your name in the hat?

01:38:03.240 T-Bone.

01:38:03.900 Did you submit, T-Bone?

01:38:05.160 No, no, no.

01:38:05.420 My boss did, though.

01:38:06.260 Okay, well, then let's go to the black dude.

01:38:07.940 Come on down, T-Bone.

01:38:09.140 We know this guy.

01:38:10.040 We know this guy.

01:38:10.800 Dan Romo!

01:38:11.900 Dan Romo!

01:38:12.860 I took a lot of notes.

01:38:14.200 All right?

01:38:14.340 Yeah, all right.

01:38:14.700 So I want to go ahead and I want to go to your point, Alex.

01:38:18.060 You were talking about Lake and Riley, right?

01:38:21.180 But also the entitlement programs.

01:38:23.280 We forgot about that and about all the money that was spent through all the illegal immigrants.

01:38:28.020 As soon as they came in, they had a bunch of, I don't know if there's a bunch of cards with money on them, but I was at the airport, I believe it was last year, and I had somebody walk up to me, and he was an immigrant, and he said, and he talked to me in Spanish, and I knew a little bit of Spanish, but he gave me a bunch of, oh, here we go.

01:38:47.720 He gave me a bunch of cash, and was like, hey, can you help me get to New York?

01:38:52.520 I just need you to buy a ticket.

01:38:54.520 And I'm like, I'm sorry, I can't do that.

01:38:57.120 But he had a wad of cash, and he had a backpack on his thing, and he had this app on his phone.

01:39:03.680 Now, do you guys remember about the-

01:39:06.000 CBP1?

01:39:07.540 Yeah, the CBP1 app, right.

01:39:09.140 Anyways, so to my point, you said to close the border, right?

01:39:13.400 That will solve all the issues.

01:39:14.600 But how do you get with the president before that, that sabotaged our own country, and sabotaged our borders, allowing all these other people to come in, and now you're telling the other president that, no, you have to follow some sort of standard.

01:39:31.240 Sit down.

01:39:32.020 Thank you.

01:39:32.440 Good job.

01:39:33.020 Great job.

01:39:35.260 People will use these examples, and first of all, let's be clear.

01:39:39.160 Some of these benefit programs are state-run.

01:39:41.140 Some of them are federally run.

01:39:42.060 And one of the reasons why these people are giving benefits at all is because oftentimes they don't have authorization to work, okay?

01:39:49.620 When you're applying for asylum, you can get an EAD, but you have to wait a certain amount of time before you-

01:39:54.520 EAD is an employment authorization document.

01:39:56.400 You have to wait a certain amount of time before you can apply for EAD.

01:39:59.060 And so in the interim, you're literally making it illegal for this person to-

01:40:01.680 Yeah, but 20 million people?

01:40:03.540 What do you mean?

01:40:04.160 20 million people are applying for this?

01:40:05.820 So you're saying 20 million people crossed the border illegal and have entered into the country.

01:40:09.940 So I think that number is inflated.

01:40:11.580 It's not true.

01:40:12.500 But I'm going to take it-

01:40:13.380 Wait, wait, wait.

01:40:13.820 Let's say 10.

01:40:14.820 10.

01:40:15.400 10.

01:40:15.960 15.

01:40:16.520 So it calculates border crossings that some of them are multiple times, and I just don't think it's a true estimate.

01:40:23.180 But not everybody is a beneficiary of those programs.

01:40:26.560 On net, once you give them EADs, these people are putting money into our entitlements.

01:40:31.600 Literally, they're given tax numbers so that they can pay into things like Social Security and Medicare, and they are never going to get those benefits from those.

01:40:41.320 So when you let them work, and I'm not saying that I agree with illegal immigration.

01:40:45.780 I don't agree with illegal immigration.

01:40:47.840 But it's just a function of the fact that otherwise these people are going to be like, I don't know, dying on the street.

01:40:51.600 Now, remember when we came on to your show in Scrapjaw, and he was talking about how he went over to Springfield, Ohio, right?

01:40:59.780 And there was a bunch of issues, not necessarily what we thought was the problem, which was people were eating dogs and cats, whatever.

01:41:06.680 But he was talking about how there were a bunch of immigrants that had money that were paying for cars that didn't have licenses, that didn't have insurance on these vehicles, and they were wrecking these vehicles.

01:41:18.620 Now, the problem was, those vehicles, he would take them back to his, not to his shop, but like the yard where they tow, right?

01:41:29.420 But they couldn't take the vehicles.

01:41:32.680 But why?

01:41:33.780 Because of these issues.

01:41:35.580 So what exactly are we supposed to do when we have a president beforehand that caused all of these issues, and now we have to pay for that?

01:41:44.440 But it's also a function of we don't have the capacity to solve that.

01:41:48.020 Like, the manpower, the labor, and the resources to rectify all those problems.

01:41:51.520 But we do have the capacity for like a trillion dollars in tax cuts.

01:41:54.820 Whoa, whoa, whoa, those are two different things.

01:41:57.700 It's completely out of the way.

01:41:58.640 So to be clear, like, we say that we don't have the capacity, but these, you know, terrorists that you say you don't agree with, they've wiped out a ton of wealth in this country.

01:42:06.840 People are against them.

01:42:07.800 And the poll numbers, his economic approval ratings are going down for...

01:42:11.060 I feel like you're dodging the question entirely.

01:42:12.640 I want to address it.

01:42:13.440 Let's assume that everything you're saying in terms of what the previous administration did was wrong, illegal, immoral, however you want to say it.

01:42:20.820 Why is illegal immigration wrong, can I ask you?

01:42:24.560 Well, can you do the same thing and do another country?

01:42:27.240 Can we go to another country and say...

01:42:29.040 No, you can't, but why is it wrong for someone to come into the country legally?

01:42:33.800 Oh, well, you see, well, exactly, because, hold on, hold on, guys, hold on, guys.

01:42:37.520 Well, we see why, right?

01:42:39.220 Look at what happened in Italy, all right?

01:42:41.140 You saw what happened on that island.

01:42:42.500 They got ransacked by a bunch of people.

01:42:44.960 There's only 7,500 people that lived there, and there were tens of thousands that just overran that entire island.

01:42:51.460 Look at what's going on in the U.K. with all the stabbings.

01:42:54.020 Look at what's going on in Canada with all the issues that are going on.

01:42:57.600 So I'm hearing crime, I'm hearing economic considerations, I'm hearing fiscal impact.

01:43:04.500 So Trump, for instance, has said he wants immigration.

01:43:07.640 He wants more immigration.

01:43:09.140 He just wants it to be legal, right?

01:43:10.860 You've heard him say that.

01:43:11.560 That's correct.

01:43:11.580 Legally.

01:43:13.480 And in this country, we have really low unemployment, record low unemployment, even now.

01:43:18.900 So the jobs report that we just got was better than expected.

01:43:22.800 So there's a labor shortage in this country in terms of the economic impact.

01:43:27.160 That's true.

01:43:27.600 And Trump wants to bring in – Trump has said that he wants to give green cards to people who complete university in this country.

01:43:35.360 So he's – at least as Trump says it, he's okay with immigration.

01:43:38.120 He just wants it to be done legally.

01:43:39.940 Exactly.

01:43:40.340 So if your problem – I just want to finish the point, then I'll let you guys go.

01:43:43.780 If your problem with immigration at bottom is that it's illegal and disorderly, then your problem is the illegality.

01:43:51.300 And therefore, you should be just against illegal actions by the states.

01:43:55.280 So let me answer why illegal immigration should be illegal, right?

01:44:00.880 First, that seems redundant, right?

01:44:02.960 It's – illegal immigration is when you come to this country outside of our laws for properly managing influx of new people.

01:44:09.600 The reason why we made it illegal – I can give you a real-world example, which is Sweden, for instance.

01:44:14.540 A lot of these countries are bringing a lot of immigrants in because of their low fertility rates.

01:44:18.380 It's going to cause labor shortages and economic crises.

01:44:21.440 In the 90s, Sweden brought in a bunch of – I believe it was Somali refugees.

01:44:26.380 These refugees were not properly integrated.

01:44:29.020 And this is not to say that they were forced to.

01:44:30.560 It's that the country failed them.

01:44:32.500 What ended up happening was the refugees that came in legally were told, best of luck, welcome to Sweden.

01:44:39.240 So what did they do?

01:44:39.980 They formed enclaves incidentally, not intentionally.

01:44:42.980 People want to live next to each other because it's familiar, it's easy.

01:44:46.340 And if you're going to get a job and provide a service in your community, speaking the language makes it a lot easier.

01:44:50.420 After 20 years, this resulted in a very serious cultural problem.

01:44:54.320 The children of these refugees were considered Swedes, but in their home country, they were not considered Somali.

01:45:03.260 They had no home to go to, but the Swedish native population would not give them jobs or opportunity.

01:45:09.060 What happened?

01:45:09.860 They created areas of the country that were, I guess I'd say, skeptical of the outside authority.

01:45:16.340 This resulted in police getting attacked.

01:45:18.220 It resulted in inter-gang conflict.

01:45:20.420 There was a grenade thrown in, I believe it was 2017, onto a balcony that killed an eight-year-old British tourist.

01:45:26.580 The culture that grew in these communities was entirely separate and isolated from the Swedish community because they were not properly brought in.

01:45:34.780 And so, why do we make it, we want more legal immigration?

01:45:39.460 We want to make sure when people do come here legally, because we do have a labor shortage and a fertility crisis,

01:45:43.520 they come in a timely and orderly manner where we can track where they're going, which communities can handle them and which cannot.

01:45:51.320 But when, let's say, even a million people come across the border unchecked and we don't know where they're going,

01:45:57.320 this can result in, I should call it, intercommunal violence.

01:46:01.960 So, you run into conflicts like whether or not the story of cats being eaten is true.

01:46:06.280 You get the local population in Springfield, Ohio were, were, were livid complaining about this.

01:46:12.120 Or you end up with, when I went to Sweden, one of the most fascinating things that I saw was local Swedish guy,

01:46:18.180 who I think was in his 20s, told me he was terrified to go to these neighborhoods because he would be murdered.

01:46:23.120 And I thought that was nuts.

01:46:25.140 And I freely walked about these neighborhoods with no issue.

01:46:27.980 But there was still a fear of interracial and interreligious conflict because of a lack of assimilation and integration.

01:46:34.800 So, for economic reasons, for cultural reasons, and to preserve the moral traditions of our country,

01:46:40.260 our democratic values we do think are important, we say, guys, one at a time, right this way, please don't cheat.

01:46:46.540 Yeah, but the problem there is, so, there's a reason we have these laws.

01:46:50.080 These laws are in place for some of the policy reasons that you've outlined.

01:46:54.080 And the problem is when you violate that, that's, you're, you're both filing the law, but you're infringing on America's sovereignty, right?

01:47:00.220 America passed these laws through our methods, democratically, and it's an expression of American will that says,

01:47:05.540 these amount of people can come here and no further, right?

01:47:07.920 You can apply for, you know, a green card under these conditions, but not, the other conditions.

01:47:12.800 You can apply for, like, assimilation.

01:47:14.920 But aren't you arguing that we need to increase legal immigration, right?

01:47:18.020 Your, your, his argument was, here's all the problems of immigration.

01:47:20.720 You're like, well, if you only have a problem of illegal immigration, then we should just make more of it legal.

01:47:25.960 Well, what I'm saying, what I'm presenting to him is, is that Donald Trump has said that there are a lot of benefits to legal immigration,

01:47:34.360 that legal immigration would benefit the economy, that we do want these people, right?

01:47:37.700 So, and so I, I take it as a given that you agree with Trump on that, and that you agree with his policy, like, rationale on that.

01:47:43.460 And so it seems to me, like, the biggest problem that people have here is, they're cutting the line.

01:47:47.940 They're doing something they're not supposed to be doing.

01:47:48.760 Well, and then I'm paying taxes, you have a two-tier justice system.

01:47:50.940 Okay, we only have time for one more guy, so great job, T-Bone.

01:47:54.320 The guy in the suit, I know the guy in the suit's been wanting to be here all night, okay?

01:47:58.620 So you got one minute, guys.

01:48:00.000 This is our last one.

01:48:01.120 I'm sorry we didn't get to you.

01:48:02.400 We only have a limited amount of time, unless you guys want to do one more after this.

01:48:05.660 But say your name, and you got your one minute start.

01:48:08.200 My name is Andy, and thanks so much for giving me the opportunity.

01:48:11.540 I wanted to address what Tim said regarding the existential crisis of it all, and the relations

01:48:17.320 of the Alien Enemies Acts, and whether or not that's being applied far enough with Venezuela.

01:48:24.560 I'm going to make some seemingly wild claims, because this stuff hasn't been reported yet.

01:48:28.440 But as far as Venezuela's role, the World Social Forums on Migration were eight global conferences

01:48:36.580 since 2005 that planned the weaponization of migration against the West.

01:48:42.840 Sponsored by Venezuela and Cuba, they essentially organized and networked the NGOs and groups

01:48:49.580 that facilitated the migration crisis.

01:48:52.580 So whether or not immigrants are Venezuelan or not, since Venezuelan proxies...

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01:50:17.700 Conditions apply.

01:50:19.040 By the definition of the OAS and the U.S. Congress helped facilitate the transfer of these immigrants.

01:50:26.360 Aren't all immigrants that came in as a result of a hybrid war effort, alien enemies and enemy combatants?

01:50:34.100 No, by definition.

01:50:34.540 Take a seat, sir.

01:50:35.760 I don't think that's right.

01:50:37.380 No, the alien enemies act allows you to designate like a foreign country and then only citizens only...

01:50:44.220 No shit, Sherlock.

01:50:47.040 Bro, do you think I just said that invasion isn't in the statute?

01:50:49.940 What do you think I just said?

01:50:52.060 Literally, do you think I just said invasion, physical, and courage aren't in the statute?

01:50:54.840 You think I haven't read the statute?

01:50:56.020 No, no.

01:50:56.940 Yeah, so what I said was...

01:50:58.620 What I said isn't contradicted by what you just said.

01:51:03.240 What I'm saying is that you have to designate a country that it's a...

01:51:06.500 Yes, it's invasion.

01:51:07.920 I didn't see that.

01:51:08.400 Oh, my God.

01:51:09.020 It does.

01:51:09.620 Alien enemies act.

01:51:10.080 You have to designate a country.

01:51:11.600 So in that country is...

01:51:13.520 You know, you can deport, detain, and send out people of that country, citizens of that country,

01:51:18.920 whether they're here legally or not.

01:51:22.480 A foreign entity...

01:51:23.520 Yeah, but you have to designate one.

01:51:24.620 So the proclamation that Trump issued only applies to Venezuelan nationals by definition.

01:51:29.100 And so, no, it doesn't apply for...

01:51:30.180 I understand that.

01:51:31.240 What I'm arguing is that other immigrants, by virtue of whether they're Venezuelan or

01:51:37.180 not, are playing a part as weapons in Venezuela's hybrid war against the United States.

01:51:42.280 So do you think that every...

01:51:43.260 So then you'd have to designate every country as being part of the invasion?

01:51:46.420 Then so be it.

01:51:47.600 Okay, so...

01:51:48.320 That's not what the current proclamation says.

01:51:50.760 So when Trump wants to say that the whole world is invading us, and issue a proclamation

01:51:54.460 to that effect, I'll address it.

01:51:56.320 I mean, I think the problem is that's so attenuated from the underlying...

01:51:59.560 100%.

01:51:59.980 Right, like, is that...

01:52:01.800 And also, it would swallow up every other part of immigration law.

01:52:04.520 Like, basically, it would...

01:52:04.920 Yes.

01:52:05.420 You could deport anyone here legally or illegally for any reason.

01:52:08.000 Right, right.

01:52:08.620 So I think that, as a result, I think you...

01:52:11.020 I think that...

01:52:12.240 I don't even know if we actually disagree that much.

01:52:14.580 No, I don't know.

01:52:15.480 I guess we probably disagree on whether or not there is a predatory incursion.

01:52:17.920 Deport everybody, even Americans, white people, Christians.

01:52:20.240 Everyone's got to go.

01:52:21.420 Nobody can stay.

01:52:21.900 But just be clear.

01:52:22.860 The alien...

01:52:23.520 The...

01:52:24.200 So...

01:52:24.860 Let's do it!

01:52:25.420 If the Supreme Court were to uphold Trump's power under the Alien Enemies Act in this

01:52:30.580 case, he could deport any Venezuelan, whether they're here legally or not.

01:52:34.520 So if they're here legally, you could get rid of them, too.

01:52:36.520 The Alien Enemies Act is a very powerful ability for the administration to get rid of any alien.

01:52:41.540 And that means any non-citizen, really.

01:52:43.560 I do think that, just real quick, we can interpret however the powers that be interpret.

01:52:50.600 I mean, whoever's in charge interprets it the way they want, they enforce it the way

01:52:53.360 they want.

01:52:54.080 And I really do feel like, whenever we have these debates, and I feel it's a lot on the

01:52:57.940 culture war, I'm like, we're sitting here acting like we don't understand these laws

01:53:03.520 all the time, because maybe we don't.

01:53:05.980 Two different sides, three different sides, different political factions, all saying, no,

01:53:09.360 the law means this, no, the law means that.

01:53:10.820 And it's really, at its core, my moral worldview would be this, no, my moral worldview would

01:53:17.260 be this, and the law is less material to the argument.

01:53:20.920 Ouch.

01:53:21.540 Let's say that I cede the fact that, okay, it applies only to Venezuela.

01:53:26.600 Well, then all of their proxies, which, again, you can demonstrate that these groups that facilitated

01:53:31.940 migration are, under U.S. and OAS definitions, proxies of foreign enemy states, shouldn't they

01:53:38.200 be prosecuted and jailed under the...

01:53:40.980 For what crimes?

01:53:41.800 For Foreign Agent Registration Act.

01:53:44.300 They're acting as proxies of foreign governments and not stating it.

01:53:47.660 So...

01:53:48.060 Seditious conspiracy, Rico, since this is a hybrid war that carries all 12 dimensions of the hybrid

01:53:53.460 war.

01:53:53.860 I shared some research beforehand, and I hope you...

01:53:56.300 Yeah, so under FARO, you need to have...

01:53:58.480 So if you have specific evidence that they're failing to register and engage in some kind

01:54:02.140 of lobbying effort, and that you can point to specific individuals, I guess, FARO also

01:54:07.320 applies not just to other countries, but to foreign principles.

01:54:10.020 And so that can include, like, foreign...

01:54:11.160 One of the reasons why we should have the Burisma conversation at some point is that Burisma would

01:54:14.340 be considered a foreign principle under FARO, and that's one of the issues of the Hunter

01:54:17.260 Biden situation.

01:54:18.040 And so I can see a cognizable case if you can show me the evidence that the specific individuals

01:54:23.300 involved should, you know, are failing to register as foreign agents.

01:54:25.800 Uh, citizensintelligence.net has a downloadable PDF with 600 sources, about 150 pages long,

01:54:33.860 and it's free along with network maps.

01:54:36.040 Can I ask about the moon necklace?

01:54:37.560 Uh, it's a pig tusk from Vanuatu.

01:54:40.400 Pigs are considered sacred there because this is, like, mining your own pig coin.

01:54:44.760 The more they curl, the more they're worth.

01:54:47.580 So they pull the top teeth so the pig's tusks continue to curl.

01:54:51.640 And if you got a pig with a triple-curled tusk, it costs somebody a pig just to take a look at it.

01:54:58.460 There's a YouTube thing called Vanuatu's Piggy Bank that's, like, a 15-minute Australian special.

01:55:03.880 This guy is insane.

01:55:05.080 Okay, all right, get off, get off.

01:55:06.220 Thank you.

01:55:06.580 Wait, wait, wait, you're almost done.

01:55:07.880 The guy with the sunglasses in the back, well, you've been looking at me all night.

01:55:10.820 Come on down.

01:55:11.740 You do one minute.

01:55:12.300 I took the microphone already, though.

01:55:13.540 I know, but I'll just hand him mine.

01:55:14.720 What are you just...

01:55:15.320 Come up here real quick.

01:55:16.240 What are you...

01:55:16.500 You've been looking at me creepy.

01:55:17.560 You, in the...

01:55:18.420 So one guy in the sunglasses, hurry up.

01:55:19.860 We've only got one minute.

01:55:21.200 I can already tell this guy's going to be weird.

01:55:23.740 Here, take my mic.

01:55:24.800 Here, take my mic.

01:55:25.540 What do you want to say?

01:55:29.600 I do have a quick question about...

01:55:31.900 We have one question.

01:55:33.060 Okay, constitutional rights.

01:55:34.800 I don't know.

01:55:35.460 I'm not a lawyer.

01:55:35.980 But if an illegal immigrant were to come here, would they have the constitutional right, like, Second Amendment rights to buy firearms?

01:55:44.960 I think they do, yeah.

01:55:46.280 The Constitution's very clear.

01:55:47.520 When it refers to persons and when it refers to citizens.

01:55:50.680 So we had this conversation.

01:55:51.980 I think you agreed with it.

01:55:53.000 Yeah, I...

01:55:54.240 I mean, and it could be an issue of how they've changed...

01:55:57.520 Like, when the Fourth Amendment was made, it draws a distinction between the rights of persons and the rights of citizens.

01:56:01.900 But I would also add, that creates an abortion issue for you if you do accept that argument.

01:56:05.460 I think we know.

01:56:05.940 I'm not actually sure either of you are right about this.

01:56:07.680 So, for example, it says, the security of...

01:56:10.700 Yeah, so it's the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

01:56:13.520 And that's people.

01:56:14.560 And other parts of the Constitution, including the requirements for president, to run for president, the requirements for Congress, it refers to U.S. citizens.

01:56:20.460 And in the Privileges or Immunities Clause of the 14th Amendment, which is what he was referencing, it refers to...

01:56:24.220 Okay, I hear all that, right?

01:56:25.720 But, clearly, under current law, we have a lot of restrictions on aliens and what they can say that would infringe the First Amendment if applied to citizens.

01:56:33.000 I think that's up to...

01:56:33.600 Well, I don't know about that.

01:56:34.520 Like, even espousing support for terrorism is sufficient to get you...

01:56:36.900 Well, that's being litigated right now with the Mahmoud Khalil case.

01:56:39.160 Right, but I think you're going to lose that one.

01:56:40.520 Well, we'll see. We'll see.

01:56:41.500 But my point being that, like, if that's true, then I think you could say that an illegal alien could not be imprisoned for, you know, a crime that would not be a crime for an American citizen, but they could be deported.

01:56:54.420 Interesting.

01:56:54.880 Right?

01:56:55.100 Like, you could make it a condition of their residence.

01:56:57.660 One of the big problems with having this carve out and saying that rights don't apply to illegal immigrants, then the rule, that exception as well as the rule, and now all of a sudden you're going to be saying, and I hope you don't say it, is are you allowed to search without a warrant, an unreasonable search, let's say, of an illegal immigrant's house because they don't have Fourth Amendment rights?

01:57:12.620 No.

01:57:13.240 No, but that's a right of the person against the government doing something to them, right?

01:57:17.740 In the same way that you can't imprison a, in the same reason that you can't imprison an illegal alien without due process, but you can deport them.

01:57:27.300 Yeah, but the Second Amendment has been interpreted by the Supreme Court to the delight of gun owners to be an individual right, right?

01:57:33.280 That's the big win in Heller, is it's not just a militia-based right.

01:57:36.780 It's an individual right to bear arms.

01:57:38.820 So is the right to free speech.

01:57:39.940 So is, and the right to free speech is as well.

01:57:42.480 And so if there's an individual rights component to the Fourth Amendment that protects you against unreasonable searches and seizures, surely, and it applies to people and persons, and there's a distinction between persons and citizens in the Constitution, we should read that into the Second Amendment.

01:57:54.360 But I don't think that quite, the analogy doesn't work.

01:57:56.800 Why not?

01:57:56.940 Because there's, you're talking, the distinction that we're always talking about in these First Amendment cases and in the Second Amendment cases is this criminal punishment versus removal.

01:58:05.620 Correct.

01:58:05.820 And I don't think that is even in the ballpark of what's going on in the Fourth Amendment, right?

01:58:11.020 So do you think, but hang on a second.

01:58:12.680 So we're not just talking about criminal punishment when it comes to immigration matters.

01:58:15.900 So the First Amendment, for example, applies to if you want to get a liquor license and you're a Trump supporter, imagine that the administration says something, or the Democrat administration says, you don't get a liquor license if you support Trump.

01:58:25.660 Or you guys complain about the IRS, right?

01:58:28.460 So let's say that the IRS institutes a policy that says something like, we're only going to do IRS audits of Trump supporters, right?

01:58:34.340 Let's say they instituted that policy.

01:58:35.820 So they didn't do that policy.

01:58:36.920 They didn't, they didn't, they didn't.

01:58:37.760 But let's assume, guys, just chill.

01:58:40.480 Take the hypo, all right, bro?

01:58:41.820 Don't, be less mad, all right?

01:58:44.660 Jesus Christ.

01:58:46.880 All right, let him finish, guys.

01:58:48.200 We're about to end this.

01:58:48.940 Let Pisco finish.

01:58:49.680 That's a situation in which an investigation isn't a criminal punishment.

01:58:54.040 An investigation isn't a criminal punishment.

01:58:55.820 You know, the denial of a license isn't a criminal punishment.

01:58:58.420 But these rights still have, you know, First Amendment, for example, still has purchase, even though it's not a criminal punishment.

01:59:02.380 The Second Amendment, there could be some gun legislation that doesn't apply in the criminal context.

01:59:05.900 It would still have purchase.

01:59:06.560 I want to just add, I do think, I would like to hear a clear answer from the courts on this.

01:59:12.520 Does the people mean the body of citizens or does it mean all persons?

01:59:17.060 Because when they did draft the Fourth Amendment, it draws a distinction between what makes someone a citizen and what rights a person has.

01:59:23.660 They're distinct.

01:59:24.340 I'm pretty sure non-citizens are protected under the Supreme Court precedent.

01:59:28.260 If it wasn't that way, you could, as a punishment, torture non-citizens.

01:59:31.200 And I think that's right.

01:59:32.420 I don't, I mean, I mean, what's this?

01:59:33.820 Oh, gosh.

01:59:34.660 Anyway.

01:59:35.180 All right, we're going to end on that, guys.

01:59:36.900 Thank you guys so much.

01:59:38.980 Give it up for yourselves.

01:59:40.660 This is the first pilot episode of the Culture War Live.

01:59:44.080 Give it up for Pisco.

01:59:45.420 I don't know if Raymond wants to say something.

01:59:46.780 Give it up for Will Chamberlain, our debaters, and, of course, Tim.

01:59:50.460 I'm here to say goodbye to everyone.

01:59:51.700 It was a beautiful show.

01:59:52.480 Shout out, Tim.

01:59:54.880 Fucking rock and rolling.

01:59:56.160 Yeah.

01:59:56.780 Cultural IRL.

01:59:58.240 Pisco, the gentleman from the left.

02:00:00.300 Yeah.

02:00:00.520 We came on the show.

02:00:01.280 We appreciate you, sir.

02:00:03.520 Yeah.

02:00:04.260 And he has a couple guys in the crowd, and one of the gentlemen came up there.

02:00:06.820 Mr. Cash, so that's fucking rock and rolling.

02:00:08.460 We love that.

02:00:09.080 Next time, we want more lefties.

02:00:11.520 If you're watching, feel free to come in.

02:00:13.800 It's a good time.

02:00:14.760 Absolutely.

02:00:15.240 The better the bait, the better, right?

02:00:16.980 Yes.

02:00:17.540 Everybody, thank you all so much for being here.

02:00:20.420 Share the show with everyone.

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02:00:23.260 Subscribe.

02:00:24.420 You can follow me on Axe and Instagram at TimCast.

02:00:26.480 Do you guys want a quick shout-outs for who you are and where they can find you?

02:00:29.060 Primetime99AlexStein, Pimp on a Blimp on Twitter, Axe, YouTube.

02:00:33.000 Follow PrimetimeWithAlexStein.

02:00:34.860 Will Chamberlain, at Will Chamberlain on Twitter, and the Article 3 Project, article3project.org.

02:00:41.300 PiscoLiddy on Twitter, and Pisco's Hour on YouTube.

02:00:45.120 This was fucking awesome.

02:00:46.880 This was fun.

02:00:47.400 Dude, it was good time.

02:00:49.400 Thank you, guys.

02:00:50.080 Thanks for coming.

02:00:51.640 Thank you.

02:00:52.520 Thank you.

02:00:52.720 Peace.

02:00:53.400 Bye.

02:00:55.600 Thanks for coming.

02:01:06.800 Bye.

02:01:06.980 What do you do?

02:01:07.400 All right.

02:01:07.520 Bye.

02:01:08.520 Whoo.

02:01:08.620 Bye.

02:01:09.560 Bye.

02:01:10.160 Bye.

02:01:10.580 Bye.

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02:01:12.060 Bye.

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02:01:19.500 Bye.

The Culture War - Tim Pool - May 09, 2025

Debating Trump's Deportation of Illegal Aliens ｜ The Culture War LIVE Debate

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