The Culture War - Tim Pool - Has Welfare DESTROYED US Culture & The Family？ w⧸ Fabian Liberty & Conor of CounterPoints

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00:01:00.480 With the latest moves from Doge, there are deep concerns among Democrats that they will

00:01:06.020 begin to slice off Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the conversation around cutting

00:01:11.340 the federal budget.

00:01:12.320 People often talk about entitlements and how this is a large portion of those funds.

00:01:17.160 But we here at Timcast, we like to talk about how culture is substantially more important

00:01:20.860 than policy because culture will dictate what the policy ultimately becomes.

00:01:24.320 Which leads us to the initial opening point here, the question over welfare, how it's

00:01:28.940 impacted families, crime rates, and feminism.

00:01:33.140 So we're going to start with this debate and we'll see where it takes us.

00:01:36.380 We've got a couple gentlemen joining us to debate this idea.

00:01:38.660 Good sir, who are you?

00:01:40.060 My name's Connor.

00:01:40.880 I'm a...

00:01:41.520 Oh, closer.

00:01:42.400 Okay.

00:01:42.620 Hi, my name's Connor.

00:01:44.060 I'm a science fiction, political, and philosophy nerd.

00:01:46.460 I'm a Marine Corps and law enforcement veteran.

00:01:48.300 I run a channel called Counterpoints 40K and another channel called Counterpoints.

00:01:52.320 And we are a part of the Valor Media Network.

00:01:54.940 You should type that into your YouTube search bar.

00:01:56.860 And basically, it's a bunch of veterans, first responders who are trying to create a more

00:02:00.700 positive pro-masculine culture separate from the red pill.

00:02:04.060 Right on.

00:02:04.520 And sir, who are you?

00:02:05.920 I'm Scott Fabian Liberty.

00:02:08.660 You can look me up anywhere.

00:02:09.940 Just as Fabian Liberty, predominantly on YouTube.

00:02:11.920 I'm an anarcho-capitalist, libertarian, right-wing anarchist, whatever you want to call it in

00:02:18.260 that domain.

00:02:20.200 Yeah, I'm just a guy that streams on the internet, talks about mostly philosophy, objectivist

00:02:25.520 philosophy, economics.

00:02:28.580 My background is in psychology, but I don't get as many opportunities to talk about it.

00:02:32.880 So I'm excited to talk about this issue and play them together.

00:02:35.280 So it's easy then.

00:02:36.540 Welfare is bad.

00:02:37.540 We all agree.

00:02:38.260 Thanks for tuning in.

00:02:39.020 We'll see you all next time.

00:02:40.120 Wrong.

00:02:40.400 Yeah.

00:02:41.920 I wish it was that easy.

00:02:44.100 Well, let's kick it off.

00:02:47.040 So you're a proponent of the welfare system?

00:02:49.160 Yeah.

00:02:49.460 I think that social spending, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, there's the physical security, social

00:02:55.720 tiers.

00:02:57.280 I think that it's the government's job in order to support those tiers so we have a

00:02:59.880 healthy society.

00:03:00.760 I identify as center-right.

00:03:02.100 I'm conservative in a healthy chunk of ways.

00:03:04.700 So I think that in order to have a healthy conservative society, you need to make sure

00:03:07.740 that people can become fully formed human beings.

00:03:11.220 That sounds like a leftist position.

00:03:13.260 Well, leftism, no offense, but leftist traveling in these circles, that's either socialist or

00:03:20.140 communist.

00:03:20.660 I'm neither.

00:03:21.280 Well, what would you say then?

00:03:23.720 Yeah, I would say that I have an uphill battle because we have been brainwashed and propagandized

00:03:28.860 on the effects of welfare for a long time.

00:03:30.840 I would say historically, we had systems that were far better than the welfare state when

00:03:37.220 looking at fraternal societies, what they were able to achieve, what they meant to people,

00:03:43.300 how they gave purpose to men, how they created leaderships, how they fostered family.

00:03:47.600 I would say that social capital is at an all-time low, looking at things like Robert Putnam's

00:03:53.300 kind of work on that and social capital theory.

00:03:56.400 I would say that looking at sociological theories such as Anami and Durkheim and things that

00:04:04.040 looking at it from a functionalist, structural functionalist position, I would say that welfare

00:04:08.360 has destroyed the traditional provider role of males, has destroyed the gender balance.

00:04:15.180 When we talk about taxation, we talk, oh, taxation is theft, you hear that, oh, taxes are too high.

00:04:21.580 I think the most important thing to recognize when we talk about taxation is that we're talking

00:04:25.300 about welfare, period.

00:04:26.400 Right.

00:04:27.500 Social security, entitlement spending, you know, 600, that is 61% of our federal budget.

00:04:35.460 Wow.

00:04:35.740 The debt is 13% of our federal budget.

00:04:39.200 Okay, so 74% of our entire federal budget is Medicare, Medicaid, social security, entitlement

00:04:44.700 spending.

00:04:45.200 So the debt, what do you mean to elaborate?

00:04:48.300 I mean that when you purchase, like when the government needs to print money, right, they

00:04:52.860 can sometimes, you know, increase money supply in a lot of ways.

00:04:55.960 But predominantly what they're going to do is they're going to sell bonds, they're going

00:04:59.400 to find ways to get money now that they have to pay back later in some capacity.

00:05:04.180 That has now reached 13% of our federal budget.

00:05:06.820 So 74% of all the money you spend is entitled, we don't vote on that at all.

00:05:11.680 That's not including TANF, that's not including Section 8 housing, that's not including, you

00:05:16.500 know, industry, sorry, you know, infrastructure bills.

00:05:20.020 That's not including other forms of welfare, okay?

00:05:23.980 And when you look at inflation as a form of taxation, and you look at all of the taxes

00:05:28.640 we have, carried interest and, you know, inheritance tax and sales tax and gas tax, it depends, it's

00:05:36.040 hard to tell how much it is, but it looks like over 50% of all of the money you make is taken

00:05:41.740 by the government.

00:05:42.720 And overwhelmingly, that's welfare.

00:05:45.640 Who, all right, so I'm trying to dig into it without getting it too academic.

00:05:49.460 That way we can actually, I don't know, dig into, like, the philosophy behind it or whatever.

00:05:53.260 So, hold on, you're saying that 70% of the federal budget goes to entitlements, okay.

00:05:58.520 74, well, 61, sorry.

00:06:00.520 Okay, so a substantive amount of it is going to the interest on our debt, and we have a

00:06:03.860 substantive amount of interest, okay.

00:06:05.800 But at the same time, what we're talking about is, you know, we talk about rights and responsibilities,

00:06:10.100 right, in the United States of America.

00:06:11.520 So we're all about rights, I do love rights, you know, freedom of conscience, freedom of speech,

00:06:15.720 right to self-defense, limited government, all that kind of stuff, I think that's awesome.

00:06:18.440 But when we're talking about our responsibilities to each other, I think that the kids who are

00:06:25.740 coming up, they can't fend for themselves.

00:06:27.540 The old people who are dying, they can't fend for themselves.

00:06:30.440 And so it is the role of us through a collective agency like the government to make sure that

00:06:35.600 children and old folks and disabled folks are taken care of.

00:06:39.120 And that is a perfectly fine role for the government.

00:06:42.420 So you said it was 61%?

00:06:43.660 Yeah, 61% would be.

00:06:45.320 You are wrong.

00:06:46.180 That would be Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Function 600.

00:06:49.800 What is it now?

00:06:50.460 Is it higher now?

00:06:51.320 Yeah.

00:06:52.360 I'm going off to like 2023 data.

00:06:54.300 As of 2024, it's dated 63.

00:06:56.080 Okay.

00:06:56.340 I was just taking a little bit.

00:06:57.360 I'm sorry.

00:06:58.420 It's even more damn money.

00:07:00.780 Okay, but what's the problem?

00:07:02.280 So that's what I'm saying.

00:07:03.020 You're saying two-thirds of it is spent on social welfare.

00:07:06.100 I'm saying that these are things that the government should do.

00:07:08.480 What's the problem with the government doing these things?

00:07:10.460 Yeah, so we can look, look, as a libertarian, as an ANCAP, I would be remiss if I didn't

00:07:15.760 like, again, say, you know, taxation.

00:07:17.640 You're way more aggressive on primary reverie, man.

00:07:19.980 You can tell me to fudge myself.

00:07:21.140 Well, no, no, no, no, no.

00:07:22.080 So, no, but hear me out here.

00:07:23.560 Listen, I think before we can even have this conversation, we have to understand what has

00:07:27.880 happened historically.

00:07:29.060 Okay.

00:07:29.400 Right?

00:07:30.000 And there is this lie that is like, well, if the government won't do it, who will do it?

00:07:36.220 And the thing is, is that in the 1800s and the early 1900s, we did it without the government.

00:07:42.060 And we did it so fucking well that the government had to come in and regulate and destroy what

00:07:48.060 we were doing because healthcare costs were too low.

00:07:50.700 That is what our government did.

00:07:52.040 They destroyed fraternal societies.

00:07:53.820 In the 1920s, one in three men in America were a member of a fraternal society.

00:07:59.640 By 1912, one in 25 men in America were a member of the Loyal Order of the Moose.

00:08:05.580 You might hear like loose Moose Lodge, right?

00:08:08.140 And for a half week's salary in 1912, you would get an annual membership and be a member

00:08:15.240 of the Moose Lodge.

00:08:16.100 What did you get for that?

00:08:17.040 You got sick pay.

00:08:18.000 You got unemployment.

00:08:19.040 If you died, your kids went to an orphanage in Maryland where the people that graduated,

00:08:24.640 males made 70.9% more than the average American male.

00:08:28.860 Females made 62.5% more.

00:08:31.400 You had everything that you had elderly care.

00:08:34.520 There was tons of these organizations and there were, but there was one problem historically,

00:08:39.340 which is that healthcare costs were too low and doctors weren't making enough money.

00:08:43.880 So they use the state to crush these, these institutions.

00:08:47.580 This is a little conspiratorial for me.

00:08:49.500 It's not conspiratorial.

00:08:50.080 It's fact.

00:08:50.460 Okay.

00:08:51.080 You're saying that because it was so cheap that the federal government had to destroy the

00:08:56.180 fraternal societies in order to replace them.

00:08:58.240 Okay.

00:08:58.540 Yeah.

00:08:58.720 You're, you're taking facts and then you're like, like assuming motivation.

00:09:02.900 No.

00:09:03.060 So I can, so I can, hey, buddy, listen, you talk for like four minutes.

00:09:06.460 I want the opportunity to talk as well.

00:09:07.720 Okay.

00:09:08.320 We said I wasn't aggressive.

00:09:09.800 True.

00:09:10.440 I know that's my fault.

00:09:11.500 So anyways, the, the point is that there, there are also a whole bunch of narratives from

00:09:15.940 the 19th century and the early 20th century.

00:09:17.920 And those narratives were that the, uh, working class had to work in industrial, uh, you know,

00:09:23.120 industrial tenement housing that they worked in, uh, effectively like corporate housing

00:09:27.700 that the corporations were fleecing their own workers.

00:09:30.560 So they couldn't get by.

00:09:31.560 They had sub subsistence living.

00:09:33.500 The only way that they were able to survive was through these social networks.

00:09:36.700 And it was a miserable existence.

00:09:38.340 The whole reason why we started these, uh, you know, there was a public outcry for this

00:09:43.320 legislation in the first place was because there weren't the things that you were talking

00:09:46.140 about.

00:09:46.660 There weren't.

00:09:47.020 What legislation are you talking about?

00:09:48.140 What was their public outcry for legislation as it pertains to fraternal order societies?

00:09:51.200 I don't have the, I don't have the name of the specific legislation passed a hundred

00:09:55.100 and some odd years ago, but I know for a fact that people were living in tenement housing

00:09:59.080 with extended families.

00:10:00.020 I know for a fact that the living conditions sucked.

00:10:01.980 I know that the pay sucked.

00:10:03.120 And I know that there was an outcry that basically what happened when you were a worker in

00:10:06.600 the late, uh, late 19th century or early 20th century, that basically, if you got, if

00:10:11.480 you lost your fingers to an industrial machine, the corporation told you to pound sand and

00:10:15.820 it's tough luck.

00:10:16.740 That's why these programs were created was because the corporations were telling young

00:10:20.480 working families to go fudge themselves when they got screwed.

00:10:23.200 So none of that is an argument against what I stated.

00:10:25.780 What you have said is that in history at the turn of, you said it was a federal conspiracy

00:10:30.140 in order to destroy the fraternal societies.

00:10:32.420 Yes.

00:10:32.900 And what you said has nothing to do with what I said.

00:10:35.080 Well, what I would say is this is how they destroyed the fraternal societies because it

00:10:38.180 was insufficient.

00:10:39.000 Well, you, you already admitted that you don't, um, understand the history of fraternal

00:10:42.160 society, which is fine because like, like you just made up a position, but go ahead.

00:10:46.240 I, did I make up that position?

00:10:47.680 Are you saying that you did, did, did you hear me say into this microphone in the past

00:10:50.920 five minutes?

00:10:51.380 I don't understand the history of fraternal societies.

00:10:53.140 Did I say that?

00:10:53.660 Well, you said that you don't, you're not aware of what the legislation was in terms of

00:10:57.520 like, and what those laws were or that process.

00:10:59.420 Okay.

00:10:59.600 Was there a law in the early 20th century?

00:11:02.540 Hold on.

00:11:03.320 You're saying that it's a conspiracy theory, right?

00:11:05.740 And then you're saying these laws were passed by public outcry.

00:11:08.580 I'm saying you're assigning motivation that you haven't evidenced.

00:11:11.160 I, okay.

00:11:11.660 So, so let me, so let me get into it then.

00:11:13.620 Okay.

00:11:13.840 So again, as I said, one in three men in America were in these fraternal societies.

00:11:17.700 I gave one example.

00:11:18.980 There are a lot of other examples, but, um, when you're talking about, um, all of these

00:11:24.140 things that are occurring within corporations within, you know, you know, as we move from

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00:12:14.740 ...and lifestyle into industrializing and et cetera.

00:12:18.620 Like, yes, all of those things are true.

00:12:20.820 What you said is that's absolutely true, but that's not an argument about why we need social

00:12:26.180 security or welfare.

00:12:27.760 That is an argument about what we were doing and what America looked like and what were

00:12:32.600 our trials and tribulations in that time, right?

00:12:35.420 Yes, things have gotten better, but that doesn't mean that welfare is the reason that things

00:12:40.280 have gotten better.

00:12:40.920 We invented tech.

00:12:42.180 We became more industrialized.

00:12:44.320 More people moved to cities.

00:12:45.480 There's a lot of other factors that occur here.

00:12:47.820 My argument, specifically, is that social security that was brought in in 1935 under the New Deal

00:12:54.760 was a Band-Aid that has done a worse job of actually taking care of the elderly and taking

00:13:00.800 care of families and community, and that there are a lot of downstream effects that we'll

00:13:04.620 get into later than what fraternal order societies were doing.

00:13:07.520 I did a curse research, and a curse research suggests, I'm not saying it's correct, that

00:13:12.240 the Social Security Act was largely favored and ultimately passed because of the Great

00:13:16.460 Depression, and elderly individuals had no access to retirement or means of supporting

00:13:21.340 themselves because the stock market had crashed.

00:13:23.520 So what would you say to that?

00:13:25.040 I mean, you mentioned it's welfare and social security wasn't the most effective way to

00:13:28.580 do it.

00:13:29.300 Do you believe that it was a temporary Band-Aid, a mistake to do, should the elderly have just

00:13:34.600 figured it out on their own?

00:13:35.940 No.

00:13:36.240 So what I would say is that fraternal order societies-

00:13:39.080 Can I be a jerk real quick?

00:13:40.420 Sure, be a jerk.

00:13:41.400 Okay.

00:13:42.000 I think you would say that.

00:13:43.280 I think you would say that the private market should have figured it out.

00:13:45.720 I think that you would say that the federal government should not have stepped in.

00:13:48.500 And I think you would say that these needs would step up, and then therefore the private

00:13:53.000 society would have taken care of the old people if the federal government hadn't intervened.

00:13:56.420 Well, so because I'm speaking historically about what happened, I agree with you.

00:14:02.340 Had the federal government not already began the process of destroying fraternal societies

00:14:07.620 in the early 1920s-

00:14:09.340 Okay.

00:14:09.660 Right?

00:14:09.900 So we're talking about multiple things occurring here.

00:14:12.500 So the problem is, right?

00:14:15.200 And so just to get into this, right?

00:14:18.060 So when we're talking about the history of what happened with fraternal societies, is

00:14:21.320 that they were using what was known as the Lodge healthcare system, right?

00:14:27.020 And so these fraternal societies, you know, they were offering insurance, eventually places

00:14:32.060 like the Securities Benefit Association, which there was a protection now through cradle to

00:14:38.800 the grave, right?

00:14:39.360 Like everything that they were doing was they were creating hospitals for the elderly.

00:14:42.740 Like that was the whole point.

00:14:44.100 You pay a half a week's salary for an annual membership, and you have access to a doctor

00:14:48.620 whenever you want, emergency service, all that stuff, right?

00:14:51.520 And then what ended up occurring, because healthcare costs were so low, medical associations began

00:14:57.440 petitioning the government for laws.

00:14:59.640 Okay?

00:14:59.820 They began to say, we have to regulate these people.

00:15:01.920 This is super, super dangerous.

00:15:03.620 These people, many of the arguments that they were making was that healthcare costs are just

00:15:08.500 unsustainably low.

00:15:10.220 That this is going to cause an economic problem because doctors aren't making enough money because

00:15:14.940 the collective bargaining power of people working together in a, you know, to, to have the

00:15:20.320 Lodge doctor system was making healthcare costs go down so much.

00:15:24.180 So they petitioned, you know, to bar doctors that use these services from, um, let me see

00:15:30.840 if I can, well, I also thought it's here.

00:15:33.840 It's fine.

00:15:34.320 Uh, I have no problem finishing this train of thought, but I also thought we were going

00:15:37.480 to talk about how like welfare created like the modern woman or the modern society or whatever,

00:15:40.980 which I'm sure we'll get to, but I'm just saying like, yeah, well, I want to establish

00:15:44.240 the history of what happened and why we have welfare and, and understand because there's

00:15:48.340 a dual element here, right?

00:15:49.840 It was cheaper.

00:15:50.660 It was better healthcare and government regulation destroyed it, uh, specifically with the national

00:15:55.820 fraternal Congress.

00:15:56.920 They basically, in order to stop having doctors dis, you know, taken out of licenses and no

00:16:02.860 longer being able to work with them.

00:16:04.400 They worked with Congress in order to negotiate rates.

00:16:08.040 I'm going to jump ahead to something that might be potential agreement then.

00:16:10.600 Okay.

00:16:10.860 Okay.

00:16:11.080 Yeah, sure.

00:16:11.320 So, so basically if you're saying that since the early 20th century, we had a privatized

00:16:18.500 system that was better.

00:16:19.460 The federal government stepped in during a time of great economic depression.

00:16:22.280 That's kind of when a lot of this, you know, got cemented into the American fabric.

00:16:26.260 Uh, you can say two aren't necessarily connected, but they happened at similar times.

00:16:30.160 Sure.

00:16:30.500 So, so, but basically the reason why I'm resistant as somebody who is, uh, pro welfare, I guess

00:16:37.280 you could, you could say in some way that, uh, it would be better if we went back to the

00:16:42.220 lodge system or we went back to the fraternal order system.

00:16:45.500 Okay.

00:16:46.400 Yeah.

00:16:46.740 Do it.

00:16:47.340 But, but here's the thing.

00:16:48.720 It's illegal and the government is providing these services with taxes.

00:16:52.020 It's illegal for you to become a part of the Masons.

00:16:54.720 And then as a part of the Masons or another fraternal society, it's, it's impossible for

00:16:59.920 you to pay dues into a system that gives you cheaper healthcare.

00:17:02.760 So what is, what is, what was made illegal and what is, you know, like it's, is it illegal

00:17:07.180 to the, you're right.

00:17:07.920 You're right.

00:17:08.420 It's not technically illegal to engage that services, but it is illegal for them to own

00:17:15.320 hospitals.

00:17:15.880 It is illegal for them to negotiate for doctor salaries without following specific rates

00:17:20.460 set by the government.

00:17:21.300 It is illegal, um, to, um, like there's massive loopholes and regulations in the healthcare

00:17:26.880 industry, right?

00:17:27.340 Like it is the most regulated industry in America is, is healthcare and, and, and, and

00:17:32.340 drugs, right?

00:17:33.000 So the government stepping in on behalf of doctors because healthcare costs were, were

00:17:37.560 too cheap and they were under threat because in Pennsylvania, Michigan, California, Maine

00:17:41.720 and Vermont, doctors associations and medical associations are doing everything they could

00:17:46.040 to get rid of these people.

00:17:46.960 Now you said you want to tie it to the culture.

00:17:49.020 And here's the thing is that it's what, what is a lot, what was the healthcare lodge doing?

00:17:53.700 It wasn't just giving people insurance.

00:17:55.780 It wasn't just giving people, you know, their medical care.

00:17:58.940 What it was doing is it was communally bringing men in men together to discuss when, when,

00:18:05.280 when Bob lost his job, everybody would go to the lodge and they would say like, hell,

00:18:10.140 Bob lost his job.

00:18:11.480 Anybody know anybody that can hire?

00:18:13.260 There was a communal aspect of mutual aid, but this gets into, yeah, sure.

00:18:16.960 And I love mutual aid.

00:18:18.980 I love community.

00:18:19.720 I love all the things that you're talking about.

00:18:21.040 But the thing is what I think Tim jumped to, which would be my point is that we had something

00:18:26.260 pre-World War II, which was the great depression, which was like a, uh, insane economic moment.

00:18:31.480 We're probably experiencing one of those insane economic moments.

00:18:34.160 Now we're going to experience, we did experience an insane economic moment in 2008.

00:18:37.680 And the truth is that the fraternal orders were not enough in order to deal with it.

00:18:41.000 So there was a, like public outcry.

00:18:42.920 Hey, there's old people starving.

00:18:44.660 Hey, there's young people starving.

00:18:46.280 Hey, there's people who can't get medical care.

00:18:47.860 We need a bigger organization in order to step in and order to provide services.

00:18:51.260 They failed.

00:18:51.620 Let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me, let me,

00:18:53.360 I'll tell you, I'll tell you.

00:18:54.400 I want to, I want to ask a follow-up question.

00:18:55.840 Okay.

00:18:57.480 What's wrong with, uh, leaving the elderly to their own devices?

00:19:01.160 They're going to die horribly.

00:19:02.660 Right.

00:19:02.820 What's wrong with it?

00:19:03.820 I like old people.

00:19:06.440 So, so what is the logical reason?

00:19:09.120 What is the functional mechanical reason that we should create a government system to protect

00:19:15.240 the lives of individuals who are unable to take their own?

00:19:17.360 Yes.

00:19:17.860 Okay.

00:19:18.200 So, uh, you're going to have to give me a little bit of latitude.

00:19:21.120 Okay.

00:19:21.700 All right.

00:19:22.420 So this is part of my problem with libertarianism.

00:19:25.100 This is part of my problem with, uh, individualism.

00:19:27.340 I'm not a collectivist.

00:19:28.660 I'm a communitarian.

00:19:29.540 I think there's a balance between the individual and the collective.

00:19:32.080 Okay.

00:19:32.660 We are not born alone.

00:19:34.020 We are born with nurses, doctors, family members taking care of us.

00:19:37.740 We also do not die alone.

00:19:39.740 Ideally, we have doctors, nurses, family members taking care of us as we die.

00:19:43.820 And so what would happen in a healthy reciprocal, uh, society is that we would say that we know

00:19:50.640 we are born.

00:19:51.500 We know that we die.

00:19:52.540 We know there's a whole thing in between.

00:19:53.980 We want to make every single aspect of a human life, the best that it maximally can be at

00:19:58.580 every step of the way.

00:19:59.520 Therefore, we're not just talking about rights.

00:20:01.000 We're also talking about responsibilities.

00:20:02.580 And so one of the responsibilities, I have grandparents, they have passed on now.

00:20:06.100 One of the responsibilities of children is to see their parents out in a good way.

00:20:10.040 One of the responsibilities of a community is to take care of old people when they're on

00:20:14.160 their way out.

00:20:15.880 Okay.

00:20:16.460 Can I respond to that?

00:20:17.360 Yeah.

00:20:18.160 So, so I agree with everything that you just said, which is why you should abolish social

00:20:22.360 security and go back to the private systems.

00:20:24.360 Pass.

00:20:24.780 And so let me, so let me explain, right?

00:20:26.820 The best data that we have, um, because we're not looking at elderly poverty rates, um,

00:20:31.620 until we're not tracking most things until the establishment of the federal reserve in 1913,

00:20:35.480 right?

00:20:35.800 So economic data is scarce, right?

00:20:38.040 But the best, uh, that we have, you can look up Cato Institute did a piece on this support

00:20:42.120 of, of the elderly before the depression, right?

00:20:44.700 And if you want to look up more about, uh, fraternal societies, read, um, uh, David T.

00:20:48.800 Beto's book from mutual aid to the welfare state, fraternal services and social services,

00:20:52.600 1890 to 1967.

00:20:54.140 So most of this stuff is coming from, right?

00:20:56.080 But we know from like, you know, internal surveys, the best stuff that we can find, right?

00:21:01.960 That elderly poverty, where people were in need of assistance, depending upon the different

00:21:06.640 groups and sites, it looks like it's somewhere between 10 to 20% of elderly.

00:21:10.840 We're in desperate need of help.

00:21:12.260 Okay.

00:21:13.020 Now in 1935, when we establish the social security, social security act, right?

00:21:18.200 It's April, uh, I believe, um, elderly poverty rate was about 40%.

00:21:23.060 Okay.

00:21:23.800 So during the great depression, you're right.

00:21:25.340 Things got so much worse.

00:21:26.520 Now, of course, fraternal societies were being already shut out, destroyed, over-regulated

00:21:32.080 by about 1910 is when they really start coming in, pushing them out.

00:21:35.620 Things get worse.

00:21:36.460 But of course the great depression occurred as well.

00:21:38.140 Now the claim to fame of people that say, well, social security has helped us so much

00:21:42.340 is that between 1960, 1935 to 1960, it fell from 40% to about 35%.

00:21:48.440 And then from 1960 to 1995, it went down to 10%.

00:21:53.400 And now today it's at 11.3%.

00:21:56.540 So the claim to fame is, is that elderly poverty, as we have, as we are now $37 trillion in debt

00:22:04.300 and counting, as we have destroyed community and destroyed the natural provider role of men,

00:22:11.880 destroyed communal bonds, created enemy, fucked up gender roles, moved wealth from young men,

00:22:18.000 made it impossible for them to build wealth to, you know, single moms, to the elderly,

00:22:23.260 to all of these other institutions.

00:22:24.780 Their claim to fame is, is it took us a hundred years and we got ever so slightly better than

00:22:29.580 what it was right before and during the great depression.

00:22:32.080 That's fucking insane.

00:22:33.760 Why?

00:22:34.900 That's insane.

00:22:35.840 Why?

00:22:36.160 You just literally said that it went from-

00:22:37.740 It took them a hundred years to get right where they fucking started that they fucked up.

00:22:42.040 And by the way, the social consequences and the debt consequences have been horrendous.

00:22:47.040 But hold on.

00:22:48.320 I reject this, okay?

00:22:49.720 What do you reject?

00:22:50.360 So I reject the fact that a hundred years ago, the fraternity and community bonds of

00:22:55.520 America were, you know, magical and better and like all this kind of crap.

00:22:59.360 I fundamentally-

00:22:59.760 Didn't make that argument.

00:23:00.640 I made a factual argument.

00:23:01.620 Okay.

00:23:01.880 I made a factual argument.

00:23:02.680 Okay.

00:23:02.940 I don't care.

00:23:03.440 I'm going to, so I, I've been listening to you basically run us through the, the history

00:23:07.600 of the early 20th century fraternal orders versus the, the welfare state.

00:23:11.320 Okay.

00:23:11.760 So what I'm, what I'm arguing is that all these things that we're talking about, the,

00:23:16.600 the lack of community, the lack of fraternity, the dissolution of gender roles, which by the

00:23:22.040 way, I think is what I want to talk about a little bit more is the fact that like, we

00:23:25.880 are responsible for this.

00:23:28.000 You are, I am, Tim is, these young men over here.

00:23:31.380 And don't look at me.

00:23:31.880 I got nothing to do with it.

00:23:32.480 No, you do.

00:23:33.480 You do.

00:23:34.240 You're a part of this.

00:23:35.060 So whether or not we want, uh, for instance, there's just like a anarchist concept of basically

00:23:40.700 creating parallel structures to the state in order to evaporate the state's power.

00:23:44.600 If you want to talk all this smack about how the welfare state is destroying society or

00:23:48.720 whatever, then what you would do if you were a rich person, uh, you know, not that you have

00:23:52.660 a whole lot of money in your checking account, but you would take that money and you would

00:23:55.420 put it into creating parallel structures in order to evaporate this power.

00:23:58.560 But what I see, what I hear and see consistently from very rich people who complain about these

00:24:03.540 problems is they don't put their money where their mouth is.

00:24:06.020 They don't give a shit about community.

00:24:07.580 They don't care about creating parallel structures in order to dissolve the power of the state.

00:24:11.800 They just jerk, no offense to, you know, uh, any particular streamer, but streamers mostly

00:24:17.160 just jerk off and make money and spend money how they please.

00:24:20.760 Okay.

00:24:20.920 But your, your argument is if, if, if you believe this or if libertarians as a whole are right,

00:24:25.320 like, like why aren't we creating parallels?

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00:25:14.280 Systems.

00:25:14.920 Um, you know, that's the power of the state.

00:25:16.620 If you gave a shit, then that's what you would do.

00:25:18.420 Yeah.

00:25:18.560 So there's a couple of things here.

00:25:20.080 Number one, right?

00:25:22.800 15.2% of all the money that you should be making is immediately stolen from you out of every paycheck.

00:25:27.900 So that you can just for social security.

00:25:29.940 I reject the word stolen, but continue.

00:25:31.440 Well, I didn't fucking choose to have them take my money.

00:25:34.880 Okay.

00:25:35.540 Stolen.

00:25:35.800 I'm going to use a, a, a Stevenism.

00:25:38.020 Okay.

00:25:38.700 No, no.

00:25:39.220 What the fuck is a Stevenism?

00:25:40.480 Oh, uh, sorry.

00:25:41.500 Uh, I, I'm going to, I'm going to use a phrase from another creator.

00:25:44.300 Okay.

00:25:45.040 Uh, there is no thief that breaks into your house and takes 15% of your paycheck and then

00:25:50.460 gives you something in return.

00:25:51.700 There's no thief that does that.

00:25:52.840 So it's fundamentally a different social phenomena.

00:25:55.020 Okay.

00:25:55.820 So, well, I, what you elaborate what that means.

00:25:59.380 Yeah, sure.

00:25:59.840 So, uh, taxes, it's very popular with libertarians to say that, uh, tax taxation is theft because

00:26:05.420 it's not, uh, it's not voluntary, right?

00:26:08.300 They didn't choose it.

00:26:09.060 So, so what I would say is that we are effectively in, in my opinion, we are in the new Rome.

00:26:14.580 Okay.

00:26:14.880 We are in Rome.

00:26:15.860 Uh, we, we run a $70 trillion global commercial empire.

00:26:20.960 And as a result, we get all these incredible benefits.

00:26:23.580 We have access to worldwide petroleum.

00:26:25.900 We have access to plastic goods.

00:26:27.260 We have access to the entire world market.

00:26:30.360 And so as a result, you can't calculate the benefits that you have that this entire room

00:26:34.140 is covered in plastic and electronics that have been manufactured the world over.

00:26:37.640 Nobody gave this to you.

00:26:39.860 This is a function of the international security network.

00:26:42.200 That is the federal government.

00:26:43.860 Well, so I have a question.

00:26:45.180 Go ahead.

00:26:45.540 Yeah.

00:26:45.880 In, in, in the context of taxation being theft or being taken from you.

00:26:49.100 Right.

00:26:49.440 Why don't you go and live somewhere where you don't have to pay that?

00:26:52.380 Like where, where would you like, where would you like me to go?

00:26:55.260 Western Somalia, Southern Sudan.

00:26:56.440 Why, why don't I go to a failed state?

00:26:58.820 Well, it's, it's very simple.

00:27:00.060 Or let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, uh, I don't know what West Africa.

00:27:03.720 Okay.

00:27:03.960 So, so first of all, I have children here.

00:27:05.500 State like that.

00:27:06.040 Right.

00:27:06.220 I have children.

00:27:06.780 So let's, for this analogy, let's assume I don't have children.

00:27:08.800 Right.

00:27:09.120 Yeah.

00:27:09.500 Yeah.

00:27:09.620 Um, why the fuck should I leave my ancestral homeland?

00:27:13.480 Why the fuck should I, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:27:17.580 I'm a fucking, I'm a mutt.

00:27:18.880 Okay.

00:27:19.120 I have a question.

00:27:19.620 I don't want to have, like I'm part Lebanese.

00:27:21.300 I'm part, go ahead.

00:27:21.920 I'll address the first question.

00:27:23.380 Um, because, uh, trees were planted whose shade that our ancestors knew they would never

00:27:28.400 sit beneath.

00:27:28.940 And you are requested that as you were born into that society, you keep watering those

00:27:32.360 trees.

00:27:33.140 But again, I mean like she, you can leave like we can, yes, I, I want, you know, I plant

00:27:38.240 seeds of which the trees, the shade I will never sit in.

00:27:40.220 No, no, no.

00:27:40.500 What I'm saying is your ancestral homeland.

00:27:42.580 And I, and I, and I, and I'm, I'm, I'm trying to answer your question and get your answer.

00:27:46.600 Uh, people came here, they built infrastructure.

00:27:49.680 They said, son, when you were old, you must take care of what we have built for you.

00:27:53.280 You were, so you are born into this world and the same imposition is applied.

00:27:57.920 That's look at all of this infrastructure.

00:27:59.700 Look at the bridges that were built.

00:28:01.020 We want you to pay into it.

00:28:02.220 You have a choice.

00:28:02.820 You could say not interested.

00:28:04.080 I don't want it.

00:28:04.640 I'll leave.

00:28:05.260 No, I'm, I'm fighting for this place.

00:28:07.520 I'm fighting to make this place America better.

00:28:09.960 And the best way that you can do that is to fight, to get the government that is stealing

00:28:14.400 so much money and funneling it to, I don't know, condoms in Africa.

00:28:18.320 I agree with that.

00:28:19.200 Why is condoms in Africa a bad thing?

00:28:21.720 Because they're, because it's not here.

00:28:23.580 Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let me just address that by using the exact

00:28:27.440 Just to address the exact same point I just made.

00:28:30.720 Sorry, ma.

00:28:31.380 Because when our ancestors planted trees and said, please water this, the implication wasn't,

00:28:36.140 and also you're going to have to go to Africa and water their trees too.

00:28:38.260 Ah, okay.

00:28:39.060 Now we're getting into the fight.

00:28:40.080 No, no, listen, hold on, hold on.

00:28:42.040 Because I don't want to talk about early 20th century fraternal societies.

00:28:44.600 I want to talk about this.

00:28:45.520 Okay.

00:28:46.020 Like, yeah, yeah, I know.

00:28:46.980 I know you didn't do your research.

00:28:48.440 So you want to talk about like, you want to do like a basic wing it thing because you're

00:28:52.760 used to arguing against libertarian philosophy.

00:28:55.200 And I actually came prepared with historical, psychological, sociological.

00:28:57.940 Well, dude, I didn't sign up for a two hour conversation about the early 20th century.

00:29:01.040 I wanted to talk about whether or not the welfare thing created a modern woman.

00:29:04.260 Yeah.

00:29:04.560 And so we have to talk about what came before it.

00:29:05.760 No, we don't.

00:29:06.400 We can talk about it now.

00:29:07.440 But you make the claim that we all called for this and that these things are necessary.

00:29:19.020 And the reason I'm talking about that historical analysis is because the history proves that's

00:29:23.100 not fucking true.

00:29:24.740 We did it better and cheaper before when people were mostly agricultural farmers.

00:29:30.180 That's why I'm bringing up the history.

00:29:31.960 Sorry, real quick.

00:29:32.660 This is why I don't care is because your historical time period is a time in which the rural doctor

00:29:38.720 would either amputate your leg or not amputate your leg because you had gangrene, right?

00:29:43.520 They didn't have penicillin.

00:29:45.300 They didn't have anything, anything anywhere close to the medical technology that we have.

00:29:49.080 So you're like, oh, our society is more complex and more expensive.

00:29:51.680 It's like, yeah, no shit.

00:29:52.780 Well, that's not an argument.

00:29:55.000 You're amputating your leg for five cents.

00:29:57.400 That's not an argument.

00:29:59.360 Yes, it is.

00:29:59.840 Morphine in a hacksaw costs infinitely less than an MRI machine.

00:30:03.980 And so does the value of labor of the average American citizen.

00:30:06.640 Yes, things get more complicated.

00:30:08.820 People make more money.

00:30:09.980 Sure, so I don't care.

00:30:10.800 The vision of labor.

00:30:11.380 I don't think you're a historical analogy supply.

00:30:13.240 You're talking about poor agricultural farmers obviously had access to less resources than

00:30:17.520 people do today.

00:30:19.420 I want to move into the 20th century.

00:30:20.500 Yes, medical care is more expensive.

00:30:21.800 You're not wrong.

00:30:22.320 Let's do this.

00:30:23.020 The first thing I want to add, totally unrelated.

00:30:25.020 What about African condoms?

00:30:26.120 I find it funny that it really was like, cut the leg off or not, when they could have

00:30:30.860 just poured whiskey over the wound and they didn't understand the concept of antiseptics.

00:30:35.020 Sure.

00:30:35.480 You literally have a thing of rum or moonshine.

00:30:38.000 Yeah.

00:30:38.400 Pour the alcohol on the leg and you don't got to cut it off.

00:30:40.600 But they didn't know.

00:30:41.940 They didn't know.

00:30:42.980 It depends upon the context, but yeah, sure.

00:30:44.540 So let's-

00:30:45.340 I don't want to get into the history of medical.

00:30:46.660 Can I briefly address African condoms?

00:30:48.480 Sure.

00:30:48.880 Okay, so the whole point is that when we have access to, if we're the new Rome, if we're

00:30:54.100 the global empire, if we have access to all these exterior markets, then the easiest way

00:30:58.200 to get into these markets is by exuding soft power.

00:31:00.840 In West and East Africa and South Africa, there are problems like HIV, lack of parental

00:31:07.140 figures in the home, et cetera, et cetera.

00:31:08.600 And so condoms, you can get to them for cents on the dollar and you are helping them build

00:31:12.680 up their societies.

00:31:13.720 So what happens is when South Africa, East Africa, West Africa have minerals, they have gold,

00:31:18.060 they have oil, they have whatever.

00:31:19.260 They're like, oh, the Americans gave us access to contraception so we could build a better

00:31:23.560 society.

00:31:24.140 We'll sell it to them at a reasonable rate.

00:31:26.140 That is the most beautiful-

00:31:27.160 That is sense on the dollar.

00:31:27.820 That is the most beautiful-

00:31:29.420 That is the most beautiful interpretation of how the State Department does foreign policy

00:31:34.560 for me.

00:31:35.180 Okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:31:35.560 Holy shit.

00:31:36.480 Those are really beautiful sunglasses you're wearing there.

00:31:39.660 The first thing we have to address is, are we being literal in that the State Department

00:31:44.160 has been delivering condoms to Africa?

00:31:45.700 We're talking about USA.

00:31:46.600 Yes.

00:31:46.920 But is USA, is there a specific program you're referencing where they literally said, let's

00:31:51.480 bring these condoms down?

00:31:52.080 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

00:31:52.900 I think it's literally Gaza-Mozambique.

00:31:55.220 It was the 50,000 dollar-

00:31:56.120 Yes, it's Gaza-Mozambique.

00:31:56.640 I know about the Gaza one.

00:31:57.820 Right, I mean like-

00:31:58.540 But that wasn't Gaza-Gaza, that was Gaza-Mozambique, I think.

00:32:01.500 This is, yeah.

00:32:02.140 So this isn't obviously the topic, right?

00:32:04.940 But when you're a libertarian, you have to be-

00:32:06.440 Don't talk about welfare.

00:32:06.920 Right, you have to be prepared to have little turns aside, right?

00:32:11.580 So, yeah, we're talking about USAID.

00:32:14.400 We're talking about the very thing that is, you know, the very first target of Doge for

00:32:18.360 a fucking reason, because it is full of waste.

00:32:20.780 You mean USAID, not USAID?

00:32:22.800 USAID.

00:32:23.240 Well, it's, you can call it either one.

00:32:25.340 I understand the reason-

00:32:26.200 AID is an acronym, and it's not actually aid, like I'm with you, right?

00:32:29.260 Well, I just say that because-

00:32:30.340 I'm just saying because it's quicker.

00:32:31.460 But what happens often is, I end up talking to people, and they think you're referring

00:32:34.980 to general foreign aid policy versus an institution that was doing a variety of issues.

00:32:39.860 Yeah, no, what we were talking about is we were talking about one of many programs that

00:32:44.680 is, you know, enmeshed with the State Department, the CIA, you know, corporate interests, etc.,

00:32:50.760 that want to push, you know, Western liberal democracy to all of these other nations.

00:32:55.940 And they kind of don't care how much they fuck up those countries, fuck up our economy,

00:33:00.340 steal money from us, make the world a less safe place, so long as the Belt and Road Initiative

00:33:04.620 doesn't get there first.

00:33:05.800 I want to give a shout-out to Danny Polischuk, who made a sketch when Doge was ripping apart

00:33:10.800 USAID.

00:33:11.840 He did a fake 60 Minutes interview where he said that he's responsible for making foreign

00:33:15.800 countries gay against their will.

00:33:18.220 True.

00:33:18.560 Right, right.

00:33:19.060 Right, right.

00:33:20.560 No, but, and shout-out to Danny.

00:33:21.940 I love Danny.

00:33:22.600 I literally retweet every single thing that I see.

00:33:24.440 But, no, so as an example, like, you could point to these things, we're talking about

00:33:29.200 hard power, soft power, and I don't care if we bring it back to welfare and the modern

00:33:31.640 woman, that's fine.

00:33:33.000 The topic, you mean?

00:33:33.740 We should, we should.

00:33:34.500 Okay.

00:33:34.880 The topic, yeah.

00:33:35.520 But, real quick, if we're talking about, like, foreign welfare in order to build soft

00:33:39.220 power with these countries, one of the things that USAID got in trouble for was creating

00:33:43.360 a social media app in the state of Cuba in order to help people foster-

00:33:45.740 Zunazel.

00:33:46.660 Yeah, in order to help foster pro-democracy revolutionary sentiment in the state of Cuba.

00:33:51.900 Well, guess what?

00:33:52.900 Cuba's a communist country.

00:33:53.980 They're right off of our border.

00:33:54.980 They wanted nukes from Russia.

00:33:56.020 They wanted to blow us up 70 years ago.

00:33:57.840 And I, generally speaking, think that freedom of conscience, freedom of speech, democracy,

00:34:01.280 and all that stuff is good.

00:34:03.000 All right.

00:34:03.260 Why do I care?

00:34:04.080 So, I actually-

00:34:05.140 You think that's good?

00:34:06.140 Can I tell you?

00:34:06.780 Real quick, just-

00:34:08.320 Yeah.

00:34:09.940 I'm not a big fan of foreign intervention, but if you were to come to me and make that

00:34:13.320 argument, I'd be like, it's interesting.

00:34:14.980 The only issue is that U.S. foreign policy has been more interested in turning countries

00:34:18.460 into gay race communists than actually bringing them to democracy.

00:34:21.020 Okay, listen, listen.

00:34:22.760 No, I'm-

00:34:23.340 If you want to-

00:34:24.180 I kind of feel like I got to address that, but-

00:34:26.220 Well, no, hold on.

00:34:27.000 I'll address it probably almost the same way that you would, right?

00:34:30.580 So, first of all, the Zunazel thing, the problem is, right, even if you're not a libertarian

00:34:34.780 like me, right, and you're willing to pay some taxes for soft power or for whatever

00:34:38.860 reason, right?

00:34:39.780 Sure.

00:34:40.180 Is that it's fraud because they lied, right?

00:34:42.680 They said they didn't-

00:34:43.680 To whom?

00:34:43.980 They lied to the American taxpayer.

00:34:46.240 They lied to everyone, right?

00:34:47.780 Like, this money for Zunazel that was broken by the AP in 2015, I believe, when none of

00:34:53.940 this was in any documents, it was leaked, right?

00:34:56.680 It was a whistleblower that showed that we were doing covert operations in trying to take

00:35:00.800 over dictatorships, and we're doing it under the guise of USAID, which obviously Tim Poole

00:35:05.820 pointed out is USAID, right?

00:35:08.000 Because it's layers of bullshit to make people think that they're doing humanitarian work

00:35:12.760 when really what they're paying for with their taxes is to try and topple government somewhere

00:35:16.960 and to create conflict and strife in other places because they are fucking commies.

00:35:21.940 Like, look, I hate commies too, but I don't understand why I can't get my fucking roads

00:35:25.660 fixed because our government has to hide behind layers of secrecy.

00:35:27.920 Why don't you create a fraternal organization and then pitch in in order to repave your roads?

00:35:31.540 Because they steal my fucking money to try and overthrow Cuba.

00:35:34.660 Oh my God, you have more money than $10.

00:35:36.220 You're fine.

00:35:36.880 So anyways, the point is that one of the words that you said that I think is pertinent to

00:35:41.980 what you just said is covert, okay?

00:35:45.140 Not every single thing that the government does, they're going to be like, hey, we're

00:35:48.160 going to go topple the government of Cuba now.

00:35:49.860 It's like, no, they're going to operate through soft power organizations in order to spread

00:35:53.560 pro-democracy messaging.

00:35:55.300 That's not a problem for me.

00:35:56.280 No, that's a serious fucking problem.

00:35:57.220 That's a serious problem when the budget says this money's for USAID and it's to help

00:36:01.860 people.

00:36:02.480 Okay, if you love that shit so much, then just have the CIA get the actual amount of

00:36:09.040 money that they use and then say like, look, we can't tell you what it's for, but this

00:36:12.820 is how much money we have.

00:36:13.880 And all of a sudden people will be like, that's too much fucking money.

00:36:15.940 So the question is for you, the American people largely don't know about these black

00:36:20.900 budget operations.

00:36:22.080 And sometimes they're not overtly black budget.

00:36:23.960 Why doesn't the US explicitly tell its American people, we are going to take your tax dollars

00:36:28.520 for use and overthrowing the government of Cuba?

00:36:30.720 I think we vaguely do.

00:36:33.020 I think this information is all available.

00:36:34.560 And on top of that, like people criticize like neoconservatives for, I don't know why

00:36:39.320 you're laughing.

00:36:40.200 I'm laughing because a whistleblower had to prove it.

00:36:42.220 And you're like, but we do say it.

00:36:43.360 It's like, obviously not true because they didn't tell us that.

00:36:47.760 Oh, because USAID used soft power as a backdoor for the CIA in order to try to topple a communist

00:36:52.660 government?

00:36:53.320 Does the CIA have to disclose all of its operations to you?

00:36:55.920 Because I'm pretty sure that like defeats the purpose of like a secret intelligence organization

00:36:59.960 that spies on foreign agencies.

00:37:01.040 What I said is, what I said is, give them a fucking budget if you agree with it so much.

00:37:06.400 He asked me a question and I want to answer it.

00:37:08.260 So you said that the American people weren't consulted on this.

00:37:12.140 Every single time that we have a neoconservative, which I guess I'm a little bit of it.

00:37:15.900 I'm like a rhino neocon a little bit.

00:37:18.320 We have neocon people who say, I love democracy.

00:37:22.180 I love republicanism.

00:37:23.460 I love freedom of conscience.

00:37:24.440 I love freedom of speech.

00:37:25.240 And we're going to go to war with all the dictators of the world.

00:37:27.460 We have that all the time.

00:37:28.720 Nikki Haley says that.

00:37:30.100 Plenty of Republicans say that all the time.

00:37:32.000 Do you think the American people are aware of just how much money goes into toppling foreign

00:37:35.100 governments?

00:37:35.400 Well, they should probably Google it because it's all available.

00:37:38.260 I mean, it's not.

00:37:40.160 It's not.

00:37:40.940 It's all Google-able, bro.

00:37:42.180 What's not available?

00:37:42.900 What's not available?

00:37:43.640 Please tell me what like secret operation or overt operation we are unaware of at this

00:37:47.660 time.

00:37:47.680 I'm sorry.

00:37:48.060 Are you asking me to tell you the thing that the government has hidden from you?

00:37:51.240 So as an example.

00:37:52.180 Are you fucking retarded right now?

00:37:53.700 No, I'm not.

00:37:54.240 As a matter of fact, I'm just going to give you an example.

00:37:56.040 So when we're talking about Ukraine, we know about Ukraine.

00:37:59.340 When we're talking about Libya, we know about Libya.

00:38:01.420 When we're talking about Syria, we know about Syria.

00:38:03.700 You can't tell me, probably even Sudan.

00:38:06.720 I have friends who work in like the Sudanese issue.

00:38:09.640 They work for these people and it's all relatively open.

00:38:13.400 Like the United States doesn't know who to support in Sudan because the military and the

00:38:17.280 jihadists are both bad.

00:38:18.500 You think that's available?

00:38:19.600 But classification exists.

00:38:20.800 Of course.

00:38:21.140 So there's things we don't know about.

00:38:22.900 Sure.

00:38:23.660 Like we bombed Yemen a few times.

00:38:25.460 Okay.

00:38:25.860 But you can find that we bombed Yemen.

00:38:27.000 I would love to get back on the topic, but I'll just say this, right?

00:38:29.480 Because I feel like my point was missed.

00:38:31.300 If you are a genuine believer that the State Department and CIA needs to exert soft power,

00:38:38.360 right?

00:38:38.920 And needs to use, you know, money in some regard that we don't know about, right?

00:38:44.920 And you believe that the people would support it and that that would be okay because you

00:38:50.260 believe in democracy and these things need to be done, then you don't need dark money.

00:38:54.860 You can literally just say, hey, look, here's a bank account.

00:38:57.400 Here's our budget.

00:38:58.480 We're doing covert shit, but this is how much money we need for covert shit.

00:39:02.220 So we can't tell you what it's for.

00:39:03.660 What they don't need to do is lie to people and say that this is humanitarian aid.

00:39:08.220 And then they're actually doing it with the State Department and working with other people.

00:39:14.860 Let's get into the issue of the modern woman.

00:39:17.540 Otherwise, I think we've gone from the welfare state.

00:39:20.840 Now we're talking about overthrowing Cuba.

00:39:23.340 Welcome to bringing an anarcho-capitalist on it, all right?

00:39:26.580 So let's start here.

00:39:28.120 What is the modern woman in your view?

00:39:30.600 I don't want to answer that question because I think that a lot of people have like really

00:39:34.280 stereotypical notions of what the modern woman is.

00:39:36.240 I think there's plenty of mildly traditional women.

00:39:38.920 So I would prefer it if he answered the question about what the modern woman is.

00:39:42.760 What is the modern woman?

00:39:44.200 Yeah, I would actually ask for like, I mean, that's going to be difficult.

00:39:48.880 Okay, I'll jump on the grenade.

00:39:49.860 I'll jump on the grenade.

00:39:50.480 No, no, I don't like I'll do it, right?

00:39:52.420 But the problem is, is like the modern woman.

00:39:54.820 I'll answer it for you guys.

00:39:55.680 If I want to do it within the context of the conversation that we're having, right?

00:40:01.640 What I would say is that the modern woman is someone that is affected deeply by anime,

00:40:08.640 someone that is a person with so many choices that it is a crippling level of choices, that

00:40:15.220 they lack cultural norms and they lack the guardrails that previous generations had so

00:40:20.960 that they could actually achieve their goals and be happy and content.

00:40:24.020 So I won't get into stereotypes.

00:40:27.100 I'll just tell you that the 70% of millennial females vote for the Democratic Party and

00:40:33.060 support the party agenda, which is defined as strong welfare states, what we would describe

00:40:39.440 as social justice or intersectional issues, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and a smaller

00:40:44.780 portion of the modern woman believes in traditional family conservative values.

00:40:48.240 So it's usually to say that they are more goal and career oriented than in the past,

00:40:54.420 modern women of today, as opposed to 100 years ago, and more politically active and

00:40:59.100 more left economic leaning and left cultural leaning.

00:41:02.700 Sure.

00:41:03.160 And I think we can point to a variety of reasons for why that would be, particularly when we're

00:41:06.960 in the day and age.

00:41:08.020 And by the way, like I'm not pro-abortion.

00:41:09.900 I'm relatively speaking like anti-abortion.

00:41:12.080 But when we're talking about like boiling down modern binary politics into subjects, I care

00:41:17.680 about guns.

00:41:18.400 Okay.

00:41:18.720 I love the Second Amendment.

00:41:20.080 I think, you know, I believe in it wholeheartedly.

00:41:22.480 So when every time that the Democrats threaten the Second Amendment, I become more right wing.

00:41:26.900 Well, within the past like decade or two, we've had Republicans not only openly threatened

00:41:31.080 like birth control, Roe versus Wade, all that kind of stuff.

00:41:33.740 We had them succeed.

00:41:34.940 They effectively achieved one of the greatest social conservative victories in the past like

00:41:39.040 50 years.

00:41:39.760 So I'm not surprised that women are jumping left.

00:41:42.200 They're doing it in reaction to the right.

00:41:43.560 I suppose you could argue it's not a victory if you lose a battlefield and reclaim it.

00:41:48.280 It's technically a victory.

00:41:49.440 But you're still net zero.

00:41:51.820 I guess.

00:41:53.280 I don't know where we really want to take it from here.

00:41:55.680 A conservative victory would be the abolishment of abortion.

00:41:59.340 A social conservative victory would be the abolition of abortion.

00:42:02.760 I agree.

00:42:03.080 Yeah, 100%.

00:42:03.960 But the point is that like we live in a society.

00:42:06.640 We're in a democratic republic.

00:42:08.260 There's a whole bunch of different tribes that all vie over how to live, you know, in the

00:42:12.180 future, and I think that women are advocating in their own self-interest, which makes sense.

00:42:16.660 They would like, uh, if you want, this is something that I thought about.

00:42:20.420 I disagree with it, but I conceptually, I understand it.

00:42:23.240 Men, relatively speaking, have bodily autonomy.

00:42:26.860 There's a reduced ability for us to get raped and murdered because we have a larger capacity

00:42:31.680 for violence, in my opinion.

00:42:33.520 With women, you're almost at constant threat through the society that you're, you could be

00:42:38.060 raped, you could be physically abused.

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00:43:24.240 brand.

00:43:25.260 You can do this, you can do that.

00:43:26.420 And so you're constantly surrounded by potential threats.

00:43:29.260 And one of the ways that you can assert control is that if somebody rapes you and impregnates

00:43:36.180 you, then you can assert control over whether or not you carry out that, whether or not you

00:43:40.300 can carry out that pregnancy.

00:43:41.780 So that might feel like some level of control in a potentially hostile society.

00:43:46.200 So that's probably why they want to grab onto it as like a measure of control, while I still

00:43:51.800 disagree with it.

00:43:52.660 Going back to just the entirety of the conversation, my thought is, why does the state have to do

00:43:59.780 these things?

00:44:00.840 You mentioned that people should take care of their elderly.

00:44:03.940 Women should be protected from these instances of, you know, rape and things like this.

00:44:07.860 Why do you feel it's the state's job or not individuals?

00:44:11.560 This gets back to like the Leviathan, right?

00:44:15.240 Right.

00:44:16.340 Power abhors a vacuum and there will always be abuses.

00:44:19.900 Human beings are naturally self-interested, selfish creatures.

00:44:23.240 And so there's always going to be abuse.

00:44:24.560 There's always going to be neglect.

00:44:25.580 There's always going to be malevolence.

00:44:26.940 The state has the ability to step in and assert some level of justice.

00:44:31.700 Yeah.

00:44:32.280 So there's a lot of things I want to get into.

00:44:35.520 So like, I don't necessarily disagree with you that women have the perception of a lack of

00:44:40.540 bodily autonomy.

00:44:41.560 You know, obviously Roe v. Wade, I don't like, I don't like that kind of like univariate

00:44:45.980 analysis of like a policy.

00:44:47.860 Yeah.

00:44:48.020 I'm sure it, you know, I'm sure it had, you know, a swing towards, you know, Gen Z being

00:44:52.680 more in favor of the Democrats, et cetera.

00:44:54.900 But I think this problem is, is so much deeper and I connect it to welfare, right?

00:45:00.640 I think welfare is the predominant issue with the breakdown of gender issues within our

00:45:05.600 country.

00:45:05.940 Um, so like, and obviously like, so, so what is the, the traditional role of, of men in

00:45:12.620 most societies, right?

00:45:14.200 It is a provider protector role.

00:45:16.020 When we look at evolutionary psychology work in terms of attraction, we can look at David

00:45:20.160 Buss's, um, work in the evolution of desire, right?

00:45:23.100 And, you know, he kind of puts forward that kind of gender theory or that social role that

00:45:28.800 you often hear from a lot of podcasters, even though they're not sure that they're referencing

00:45:31.660 it, which is that, you know, men tend to be attracted to females for fertility signs,

00:45:36.620 right?

00:45:37.060 Women tend to be attracted to men for signs of resource provision, right?

00:45:41.520 There's other work in terms of, um, um, Simon Cohen's like extreme male brain theory of autism,

00:45:46.260 which is a fairly controversial work with a lot of, of citations.

00:45:49.900 And like, he breaks it down as females tend to work towards empathizing and men tend to

00:45:55.400 work towards systematizing, right?

00:45:57.900 Men look at tools, they look at hierarchy, they look at like how to do things with things.

00:46:02.660 Women look at maintaining relationships, uh, things of that nature.

00:46:06.360 And so what happens when your society utilizes the state and takes away all of the community

00:46:14.960 aspects, right?

00:46:16.360 All of the, the interconnections, all of the social capital out of the male role of being

00:46:22.540 a provider out of the social safety net that men did for so long, and then funnels that

00:46:28.540 to women.

00:46:30.060 Well, I'll tell you what happens.

00:46:31.460 What you end up with is you end up with young men who cannot, cannot have capital accumulation

00:46:36.920 because the government takes their money.

00:46:39.000 Now they can't invest.

00:46:40.100 They have less money to invest.

00:46:41.440 They have less money to build wealth.

00:46:42.720 They don't have a, uh, that women are no longer seeking them to be providers.

00:46:47.240 They're boss bitches.

00:46:48.180 They're independent.

00:46:49.160 They have their own money, but half of the money that everybody is making is taxed in some

00:46:53.400 degree to move towards other people.

00:46:55.600 It is completely destroyed the natural dynamics in gender in those relationships.

00:47:00.120 A specific, a specific, a specific example that came up quite a bit in the past few years

00:47:03.560 was, uh, a study that came out and a subsequent story by the New York post that women are

00:47:08.840 struggling to find men who, uh, will date them, who, who make as much.

00:47:14.160 And yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:47:15.640 The issue is actually quite simple.

00:47:17.280 If there's a 35 year old man who makes $70,000 a year, he's not going to date a 35 year old

00:47:22.120 woman.

00:47:22.340 He's going to date a 22 year old woman because that amount of money to a 22 year old is, is

00:47:27.040 more.

00:47:27.380 And so we've seen this phenomenon with, uh, with dating apps in particular, where young

00:47:31.560 men are cut out of the dating market because, uh, as the story goes, your, your, your dating

00:47:38.080 pool used to be your sphere of influence, your friends, your schools, whatever, your work.

00:47:42.040 And so now it's everything.

00:47:44.220 So what happens is a 22 year old guy at a university, his dating pool is 22 year old girls or, you

00:47:49.820 know, freshmen, 18 to 22.

00:47:51.320 And the women, their dating pool is the men, but with the rise of social media, women, those

00:47:56.540 young men in college are now competing with 30 year old guys who make, you know, 80,000

00:48:00.220 a year.

00:48:00.980 And when the, uh, it's actually quite simple.

00:48:03.880 The young woman gets a message from a guy and he says, do you want to come hang out in

00:48:07.040 my dorm with my buddies?

00:48:08.240 We're going to order pizza.

00:48:09.120 And she goes, that sounds fun.

00:48:10.620 She gets another message from a 30 year old guy says, how about I pick you up in my convertible?

00:48:13.940 We go out for a movie and a, and a dinner and then go, and then go drive by the lake.

00:48:17.020 Which one does she choose?

00:48:18.520 She's going to choose the more fun, more luxurious adventure.

00:48:21.960 The result has been that, um, right now the highest rate of virginity for men 30 and under

00:48:27.780 and increasing, this was actually in the past five years.

00:48:30.400 So now the virginity rate up to 35 is about one third.

00:48:33.620 And these are not guys who are, you know, uh, Seamus Coghlan, he's a Catholic.

00:48:36.860 He responded with based when he heard that because he's Catholic.

00:48:41.300 Come on, Seamus.

00:48:42.340 Can I just point out real quick though?

00:48:43.580 Just one final emails too.

00:48:45.040 Well, one final, but less so.

00:48:46.600 So the final point is what I told Seamus was, these are not guys who are waiting for marriage.

00:48:51.740 These are guys who are cut out from finding a partner at all because of, so I guess.

00:48:56.680 They're incels, they're not volcels.

00:48:57.920 But these are just regular guys.

00:48:59.440 Sure.

00:48:59.700 It's not some weird nerdy guy.

00:49:01.300 I can explain this.

00:49:02.120 Let's go.

00:49:02.480 I can explain this without a univari analysis, but I'll let you go first.

00:49:04.920 Thank you.

00:49:05.480 Um, so you tied it to welfare and, and I basically, I want to address your point and then I want

00:49:10.320 to get into this because I feel like this is the, what the meat is what people came for.

00:49:14.320 So to speak.

00:49:14.700 Uh, you wanted to tie it to welfare.

00:49:16.640 Well, in preparation for this conversation, I went ahead and took a look at like international

00:49:20.220 welfare, the different States that have different, you know, issues.

00:49:23.060 And it seems like every single country on the planet is facing similar issues.

00:49:28.540 Increases in single family homes.

00:49:30.020 Uh, they are experiencing, uh, a birth rate that is plummeting towards two.

00:49:34.960 There are all the anti-social program, uh, anti-social issues of like violence and all

00:49:39.620 that kind of stuff.

00:49:40.040 This is happening like worldwide.

00:49:42.020 And then looking at developed countries versus non-developed countries or developing countries,

00:49:46.440 so to speak.

00:49:47.040 Welfare didn't really correlate with whether or not people were experiencing these sexual

00:49:50.380 issues.

00:49:51.380 As an example, Mexico and Costa Rica have some of the lowest GDP spent on welfare.

00:49:57.240 They also have, uh, like the per capita rate is incredibly low and they still experience

00:50:03.300 these sexual, uh, I'll call it dysgenic, dysgenic issues.

00:50:07.580 Right.

00:50:08.000 But then you also go to places like Germany or Norway or Sweden.

00:50:12.480 And what's funny is these countries have more welfare, but they actually have moderately

00:50:17.300 less dysgenic issues compared to the United States.

00:50:19.920 And so I, I would still agree to all of these problems, but I wouldn't tie it to welfare.

00:50:24.980 And the things that I would tie it to, which you guys mentioned is the industrial revolution,

00:50:30.020 the sexual revolution.

00:50:31.440 And I would say we are currently in the information age revolution where you can, as an example,

00:50:37.580 like you just said, you can date, you're not dating your community.

00:50:41.320 You could date the entire city, the entire state.

00:50:44.180 Okay.

00:50:44.360 So worse than that, you can date robots.

00:50:45.980 Right.

00:50:46.380 Okay.

00:50:46.620 So let me, yeah, let me respond to that.

00:50:47.960 So you're absolutely true.

00:50:49.400 Anyone that tries to do a, like I said, a univariate analysis on anything is, is, is a

00:50:54.960 snake oil salesman or they don't know what they're talking about.

00:50:57.140 Right.

00:50:57.480 Like nothing is ever one issue.

00:50:59.640 Sure.

00:50:59.880 Right.

00:51:00.020 My issue is the growth of the state supplanting cultural norms.

00:51:04.500 Right.

00:51:04.900 So, uh, there's, so, so to weave this thread, we have to, I got to get into a little bit

00:51:10.620 more psychology.

00:51:11.420 Right.

00:51:12.240 So, you know, obviously I brought up Durkheim, right.

00:51:15.720 You know, he wrote division of labor, 1893 or division of labor and society, 1893.

00:51:19.920 And then later his most famous work probably is suicide, 1897.

00:51:23.000 Right.

00:51:23.500 Where he discusses the concept of enemy, right.

00:51:26.260 He was the first guy to discover that like, can you define enemy because you've said it two

00:51:29.380 or three times.

00:51:29.820 Yeah.

00:51:30.100 So an enemy is a sense of normalness when culture changes or institutions change too fast and

00:51:37.100 people are, they're, they're less understanding of what is expected of them and what the standard

00:51:43.460 ought be.

00:51:44.160 Sure.

00:51:44.600 Right.

00:51:45.100 Um, and so, you know, there's, there's, there's a lot that goes into this, right?

00:51:49.900 So you can look at Robert K Merton's kind of work, right.

00:51:53.880 In structural functionalism.

00:51:55.100 You don't hear much about structural functionalism because it's the only conservative aspect of

00:51:58.960 sociology, right.

00:52:00.260 So obviously they don't talk about, right.

00:52:01.640 But he's the guy that invented broken windows theory.

00:52:03.680 He's the guy that came up, coined the phrase unintended consequences.

00:52:07.360 Right.

00:52:07.740 Um, and so, you know, there is, when you have welfare that supplants, um, communities that

00:52:16.500 supplants, um, you know, like it supplants social capital, right.

00:52:21.080 When, when you, you said this and you're absolutely right that like power and systems, right.

00:52:25.960 They, they, they abhor a vacuum.

00:52:27.060 Right.

00:52:27.500 And you're absolutely right.

00:52:28.840 When the government steps in, they take in that space.

00:52:32.420 Right.

00:52:32.960 And what they have supplanted is they have supplanted social capital.

00:52:37.600 They have supplanted neighbors looking after their neighbor's kids because that was necessary

00:52:42.620 at one time.

00:52:43.360 Because if you didn't belong to a society, you didn't, uh, like a fraternal society, I

00:52:48.760 mean, obviously we all go, we belong in a society.

00:52:50.980 Right.

00:52:51.500 Um, but like, if you weren't a part of these groups, if you weren't active member of your

00:52:55.400 community, if you didn't have a church, you didn't have all of these things, then, then

00:52:59.460 people would be left out.

00:53:00.420 Your life would suck, but problems would have caused.

00:53:02.380 And what we've done is we've given that over to the state.

00:53:04.900 And what this has done is, is, is destroyed the social capital that gives us norms.

00:53:11.400 Right.

00:53:11.660 If I, I'm going to use it like a little metaphor to kind of make this simple.

00:53:15.100 Right.

00:53:15.680 If I live in a society that says one through 10 are bad things and you shot, you shouldn't

00:53:21.900 do those bad things.

00:53:23.080 Right.

00:53:23.920 But I'm really fucking good at number seven and I'm talented and I really care about number

00:53:29.900 seven.

00:53:30.360 What I do is I break norms and I go do number seven and I do it so fucking good that I come,

00:53:36.580 that I come back with number seven and I go, look at the value that I have done with number

00:53:42.200 seven.

00:53:42.860 But when you have a society that says, do whatever you want, be free.

00:53:46.280 There are no cultural norms.

00:53:48.140 Multiculturalism is great.

00:53:49.140 There is no community.

00:53:50.220 You don't know who your neighbors are.

00:53:51.360 You go off and you do seven, but you get distracted by, well, should I do one or should I do 10?

00:53:55.460 And then what you end up with is you suck and you're engaged in all these degenerate

00:53:59.940 things that should have kept a cohesive society together and no one cares when you're coming

00:54:04.000 back with something.

00:54:04.580 Real quick.

00:54:05.020 So are you saying that the system of welfare has enabled damage to our cultural and social

00:54:12.940 structures?

00:54:13.560 Absolutely.

00:54:14.080 Not only enabled, it has created without a doubt.

00:54:16.560 But your argument would be industrialization and technological revolution has been.

00:54:19.800 And sexual revolution and information revolution is the culprit of that.

00:54:23.380 Well, think about this, how is that possible?

00:54:26.120 How do you get sexual revolution, hedonism, equity, feminism, right?

00:54:30.780 These things coincide.

00:54:31.860 It's a chicken and egg scenario because the women, as we said, like I said, men are systematizing,

00:54:36.860 women are empathizing.

00:54:37.840 As you said, women are voting, especially Gen Z, are 70% Democrat.

00:54:41.700 Women are voting for welfare systems that empower women.

00:54:46.740 What does the DEI do except give women useless email jobs and corporations?

00:54:52.520 Women are allowed to vote for these things.

00:54:54.840 Yeah.

00:54:55.140 Because we have an, it's liberalism.

00:54:56.900 So, and by the way, like, so liberal democracy is done, but that's a separate point.

00:55:00.900 Right.

00:55:01.560 So liberalism, I think is a perfectly fine, especially in a free society, I think it's

00:55:06.000 a perfectly fine governing society or governing philosophy.

00:55:08.740 However, I think it's a very terrible, like personal development philosophy.

00:55:12.200 I don't think it gives you enough information on how to be a man, how to be a woman, how to

00:55:15.800 grow up, how to be a good person, et cetera, et cetera.

00:55:17.640 So liberalism is a, should be a general governing framework, but we should be fighting within

00:55:21.960 the framework of liberalism for how men should grow up.

00:55:24.880 And so, and also how women should grow up as well.

00:55:28.100 I'm going to give you a rebuttal to one of your points, and then I'm going to talk about

00:55:30.900 like a solution, I guess.

00:55:32.440 So you, you said that the government is in here stealing 15 to 10% of our checks or whatever,

00:55:38.320 and therefore-

00:55:38.960 No, that's just Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid.

00:55:40.600 Just give me a moment.

00:55:41.400 Social Security, Medicare.

00:55:41.720 So Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, entitlement programs are stealing all of our resources,

00:55:46.200 and therefore we don't have enough capital in order to develop ourselves, in order to

00:55:49.000 become men, et cetera, et cetera.

00:55:50.440 Yeah.

00:55:50.560 But what I would say is, since power abhors a vacuum, this was all happening in the 19th

00:55:54.920 century.

00:55:55.360 And you can go back and find the abuses in the late 19th and early 20th century from

00:56:00.180 capitalists.

00:56:01.400 And I don't mean that as a derogatory term.

00:56:03.280 I mean that from the people who ran corporations, the people who ran corporations, similar to Google,

00:56:08.000 except for maybe Google's a little bit nicer, is they created like compounds for workers

00:56:13.320 to live in, and then they charged them exorbitant rents for their living conditions.

00:56:18.200 Then they charged them exorbitant rates for the food consumption items that they had at

00:56:22.800 the local grocer.

00:56:23.540 And they also made the locals sign contracts saying that they would purchase all of their

00:56:27.580 goods first from the local grocer.

00:56:29.980 And so while it's private and it's privately negotiated, power seems to, especially nefarious

00:56:35.800 power, seems to always want to manipulate its subordinates into giving every excess amount

00:56:41.480 of energy into the above system.

00:56:43.940 Anybody who's worked, sorry, I'm ranting, but I'll try to be brief.

00:56:47.060 That any person who's worked in corporate America understands this.

00:56:51.300 And the reason why is because they give you bullshit metrics that you have to fulfill every

00:56:54.740 single day that takes all of your energy.

00:56:56.360 That way you basically give your soul to the company.

00:56:59.120 And if you're unwilling to give your soul to the company, they drum you out.

00:57:02.560 Can I have a direct reputation very quickly?

00:57:05.180 Sure, yeah.

00:57:05.920 Right.

00:57:06.100 So Hayek has a wonderful quote in The Road to Serfdom that I think accurately depicts

00:57:10.720 the counter-argument here, which is just centralized systems destroy spontaneous order.

00:57:15.220 Thank you.

00:57:15.960 Right?

00:57:16.920 You're not wrong that evil people have existed and done bad things or done it.

00:57:20.880 Now, I do think that your characterization is a little lefty of some of these corporations,

00:57:26.920 right?

00:57:27.240 The problem with being a centrist.

00:57:28.520 Well, you know, I think it's a little silly because, you know, specifically when we're talking

00:57:33.180 about Pullman Town, I think is what you're mostly referencing.

00:57:35.600 We're talking about the grocery store.

00:57:36.880 There's that famous quote from where, you know, he says, you know, I live in a Pullman

00:57:40.440 house.

00:57:40.760 I work a Pullman job.

00:57:41.580 I eat Pullman food.

00:57:42.280 And when I die, I'm going to be buried in a Pullman coffin.

00:57:44.260 Right?

00:57:44.520 Like, that is like this very bleak and dystopian thing, except the people there were making

00:57:49.220 like, you know, relative to...

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00:58:37.380 The average American were making double, sometimes triple the wages of other people.

00:58:40.880 Their children were getting education that agrarian farmers could never have gotten.

00:58:45.340 You know, they did have a home.

00:58:46.980 Those homes were showcased as some of this, like the brilliant age of capitalism, because

00:58:51.740 these homes were nicer than any homes any regular poor people could fit.

00:58:55.880 Now, were there problems?

00:58:56.640 I think Google would be saying the same thing, though.

00:58:57.980 Google would be like, look at the...

00:58:59.340 Great, we have a sushi bar, guys.

00:59:01.060 We got this, we got that.

00:59:02.280 I agree that corporations took advantage of, you know, the large amount of capital that

00:59:08.360 they had, you know, to make more and more.

00:59:10.860 Like, I agree that there are always going to be bad people in any system.

00:59:14.140 But what I am talking about and what I am arguing is not here some examples of bad things happen

00:59:20.600 in past, therefore welfare good.

00:59:22.280 But I'm making an actual argument here, right?

00:59:25.320 Which is that I'm talking about from a praxeological position, looking at the economic impact of creating

00:59:31.500 a society where the government takes your money now for a presumed good elsewhere.

00:59:38.940 So there's a couple of issues here.

00:59:41.240 It prioritizes...

00:59:42.420 I want to have a back and forth.

00:59:43.780 I don't want to listen to like a...

00:59:44.680 You went on a rant, and I'm going to make the argument, so I'll try and make it quick

00:59:47.780 here, right?

00:59:48.220 Thank you.

00:59:48.500 There's a couple of issues.

00:59:49.440 Resource accumulation versus...

00:59:51.660 Sorry, capital accumulation versus capital consumption.

00:59:55.320 Sure.

00:59:55.460 When you have welfare, who gets welfare?

00:59:57.880 It is the immediate needs and the welfare recipients of the state.

01:00:01.920 When you don't have welfare, where does money go?

01:00:05.300 Sometimes it goes towards presumed immediate needs.

01:00:08.060 Sometimes it goes towards wealth and investment.

01:00:10.700 One of the worst things that welfare has done is by...

01:00:14.560 It has taken away capital accumulation from young men.

01:00:17.680 What do young men normally do?

01:00:19.020 They start factories.

01:00:19.980 They start small businesses.

01:00:21.440 They go into industries that compete with corporations, and they're able to do that,

01:00:26.340 but they need that wealth accumulation.

01:00:28.820 Their role is destroyed by welfare and immediately given to other people, and it has destroyed what

01:00:34.580 young men do.

01:00:35.200 So of course, they fucking check out and play video games and work a 9-5.

01:00:37.940 All right, so welfare is a component, I suppose, but the issue is largely the regulatory nature

01:00:45.900 of the country.

01:00:46.760 Oh, for sure, for sure, for sure.

01:00:48.140 The capital requirements to start a business.

01:00:50.260 For sure, for sure.

01:00:50.880 And the structures as of right now, an 18-year-old is not going to be able to stake a plot of land

01:00:58.620 and create a farm.

01:00:59.920 He's not going to be able to do anything, actually, because he's competing with older,

01:01:03.040 more skilled people.

01:01:03.820 He's competing with literally everybody.

01:01:05.700 So what do we end up seeing?

01:01:06.880 Welfare.

01:01:07.600 This is welfare.

01:01:08.520 Welfare is just one piece of the big picture.

01:01:10.320 But when we look at inflation-

01:01:12.020 Idiot!

01:01:12.560 Scott!

01:01:13.060 Jesus, I love you.

01:01:14.080 He was looking at me.

01:01:15.140 I was going to answer.

01:01:16.160 I was so excited because I have the answers.

01:01:17.620 I know.

01:01:18.480 Okay, but here's my-

01:01:19.360 All of them.

01:01:19.660 All of them, brother.

01:01:20.460 All of them.

01:01:20.920 We all have the answers, okay?

01:01:22.260 So the thing about this is, number one, we do live in a democratic republic.

01:01:27.840 Women do have representation.

01:01:29.400 They're not going to be interested in stopping the way that they're voting anytime soon.

01:01:33.120 This is oftentimes my problem.

01:01:34.220 I'm not sure that's not an argument.

01:01:35.460 No, it is.

01:01:36.300 Obviously, it's important.

01:01:37.220 We're talking about ideology and shoulds.

01:01:39.120 One of the shoulds that you should consider is whether or not you would be able to affect

01:01:42.180 society sufficiently.

01:01:43.320 It's not an argument about whether or not this is what is happening.

01:01:45.000 Yes, it's an appeal to pragmatism.

01:01:46.540 Please let me finish.

01:01:47.400 That's not an argument.

01:01:48.220 Yes, it is.

01:01:49.220 It literally is.

01:01:49.780 It really is.

01:01:50.540 Yeah, it really is.

01:01:51.600 So anyways, the point is that if left-leaning people are going to continue voting the way

01:01:57.540 that they're going to vote, it doesn't matter if you say, we need to eliminate the welfare.

01:02:00.780 We need to eliminate the power of the federal state.

01:02:02.620 It's not going to happen.

01:02:03.740 Okay?

01:02:03.960 It's not going to happen.

01:02:04.820 And so the question is, what do we do now?

01:02:07.120 And the truth is that I think that even if you got what you wanted, which was like

01:02:10.540 the evaporation of the welfare state, I still don't think that you would see the

01:02:13.520 pro-social benefits that you're looking for because of the three other things that we

01:02:16.100 mentioned, the industrial, sexual, and information revolution.

01:02:19.340 And so now I'm talking about pragmatic solutions.

01:02:22.140 When we're talking about pragmatic solutions, I hope that Valor Media Network, the people

01:02:25.660 that I represent, are a part of the solution, which is that-

01:02:29.180 You represent so many leftist organizations these days.

01:02:31.500 Is that another one?

01:02:32.140 Well, they're liberals.

01:02:33.160 But anyways-

01:02:33.540 Yeah, I know you got paid by Progressive Victory and a bunch of other people.

01:02:35.900 Don't keep hocking your shit or I'm going to attack you for the fact that you take

01:02:38.660 money from leftists.

01:02:39.760 Like, calm down, brother.

01:02:40.560 Listen, man, I've never made it a hidden thing that I am a never-Trumper, okay?

01:02:46.520 I want to highlight one quick thing.

01:02:48.820 Sorry.

01:02:49.180 You want to finish your point?

01:02:49.620 Yeah.

01:02:50.200 And it's a very simple point.

01:02:51.860 Iron sharpens iron.

01:02:53.040 Men sharpen men.

01:02:54.140 So we need to get together.

01:02:55.480 We need to get our stuff together.

01:02:56.620 We need to have these complex conversations, and we need to push each other to be better.

01:02:59.640 And we need to help those 18 to 30-year-old men who are virgins right now.

01:03:03.560 Pragmatic solutions aside, that is not an argument as to whether or not did this thing

01:03:08.740 cause this thing.

01:03:09.700 So we've completely gone away from that argument.

01:03:12.100 We have a big functional problem in—one of the things that came up in the debate was

01:03:17.420 welfare of the modern woman.

01:03:19.480 Women overwhelmingly vote towards the left.

01:03:22.180 And I think there's—as you mentioned, they sympathize and men systematize.

01:03:26.700 And so women take the approach of, we want to be protected.

01:03:30.620 One argument made by many people is that they've effectively replaced the role of men with the state.

01:03:36.540 Yes.

01:03:36.760 So, however, that does create an interesting conundrum.

01:03:41.300 Men allow women—men allowed the women to vote, essentially.

01:03:45.400 And I don't mean to say that they had the right to take—to restrict that in the first place.

01:03:49.540 I'm saying that with women's suffrage, the men who are running the country could have simply said,

01:03:53.500 nope, but they decided, no, no, no, women should vote.

01:03:56.540 Here's the problem I have with the system we are currently in.

01:03:59.660 If we were to remove all technologies, dating apps, industrialization, then all of these issues are solved.

01:04:06.820 Certainly, 50 billion new problems emerge.

01:04:09.140 Right, right, right, right.

01:04:10.060 You stub your toe and you die of—

01:04:11.500 Right, yeah, of course.

01:04:12.620 Thank you.

01:04:12.900 But in a society like that where we live in the wilderness, in little mud huts, women are largely going to defer to the men because the risks.

01:04:22.340 These psychological tendencies have not gone away.

01:04:24.780 They've just industrialized themselves to the point where women overwhelmingly right now are voting to send men to die.

01:04:31.220 So with the current state—

01:04:33.540 Yes.

01:04:33.940 It is true.

01:04:34.780 The female vote tends to be exceedingly pro-war, and they themselves are exempt from the consequences of what those wars would be.

01:04:41.620 Well, at first.

01:04:43.600 Certainly.

01:04:44.240 But the argument is it's fine to vote in favor of war because I'm not on the front line.

01:04:49.460 The men will have to die before I do.

01:04:50.960 True.

01:04:51.260 And so the argument still is women rely on men for protection to maintain the society, but with voting power, the women can collectivize and then force the men to do things that men may not naturally do.

01:05:03.140 There's a Socratic quote about that.

01:05:06.180 It's a gentleman—sorry.

01:05:08.600 It's a brief aside, but basically like a very powerful, wealthy, strong warrior gentleman in ancient Greece is talking smack about how democracy is the rule of the week.

01:05:17.500 And then Socrates or Plato, I forget who, but he basically rebuts.

01:05:22.020 It's like, okay, well, if the weak bound together in order to become something stronger than you, then are we not still living in a society where effectively the strong are still ruling?

01:05:32.600 Yeah.

01:05:32.920 And so that's part of the reason why I'm not a Democrat, even though I'm temporarily working for Democrats because I hate Trump so much.

01:05:39.400 But the point is I'm not philosophically a Democrat because I think the average person—no offense to the Democrats in the audience, but they're mostly stupid.

01:05:46.820 The average person is a moron.

01:05:49.500 I take issue with currently this is a problem.

01:05:52.560 I believe that women should have the right to vote so long as they have equal responsibilities in society.

01:05:57.180 Selective service.

01:05:57.880 So that's literally what I was going to say is that a lot of women joke about this, but I think that this would be actually—if we deem this a societal problem, I think this should be a thing.

01:06:06.620 If we see consistently that women disproportionately vote for war for men to go die overseas or whatever, then I think that we need to make selective service equal, where all women over the age of 18 have selective service.

01:06:16.280 Because the truth is you see TikToks all the time about gay men and women or whatever when they're like, oh, when the draft comes up, I'm going to pretend that I'm something, something, blah, blah, blah, blah.

01:06:24.260 So why avoid war?

01:06:25.540 But I want to bring this up because I think it's important.

01:06:27.760 It's actually the heart of the conversation.

01:06:29.820 Fabian, you're saying that the protect and provide role has been eliminated for young men, okay?

01:06:35.220 Not eliminated.

01:06:36.460 It's been—it's substantively muted.

01:06:38.520 Yeah, yeah, for sure.

01:06:39.560 So here's the thing.

01:06:40.320 When it comes to protection, protection involves a lot of things for young men.

01:06:45.820 If you are not physically fit, if you don't have any cardiovascular ability, then nobody's going to trust you to protect them.

01:06:50.700 If you are not capable of knowing the laws and knowing how to operate a firearm and knowing how to conduct yourself in like a hectic environment, then you're not going to be able to protect anyone.

01:06:59.520 Okay.

01:06:59.760 And I think that women subconsciously read on that.

01:07:01.540 So what I would do if somebody gave me a million dollars is I would literally create a program for young men to do for free in which we train them how to be physically fit, how to conduct themselves in security situations, how to conduct themselves during a mass shooting,

01:07:14.740 how to do basic first aid, and how to operate firearms.

01:07:17.340 I 100% would throw myself behind an educational effort in order to get young men educated on those topics.

01:07:22.020 When it comes to provide, which protect could be partially financial as well, I'm just going to say we're fudged.

01:07:29.740 So I think that we are at a crossroads in neoliberal economics and the welfare state where male workers, middle class and working class males,

01:07:45.180 have effectively had every dollar that they can make squeezed out of them, and you cannot bleed a stone.

01:07:52.580 But I wouldn't put that solely on the state.

01:07:55.220 I would also put that on the corporations who also do very nefarious things to squeeze every ounce of productivity out of their peons while not giving them a living standard.

01:08:06.960 So, yeah.

01:08:07.540 So let me respond to this.

01:08:09.920 I don't know why I said that.

01:08:11.140 Obviously, I'm going to respond to it.

01:08:12.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:13.560 Fucking word filler.

01:08:14.460 It's all good.

01:08:14.880 We're getting into it.

01:08:15.520 We're like 90 minutes in.

01:08:16.600 So I think there's – so, you know, you would talk about – Tim Pool, right?

01:08:21.700 You would talk about the concept of, like, collectivizing, you know, their control and, you know, of, like, resources and redistributing resources as they vote for the left.

01:08:33.700 There's a few problems here.

01:08:34.680 One is that your average woman has, you know, as much as your average man being dumb, right?

01:08:39.380 They don't know that, right?

01:08:41.200 Like, your average woman doesn't recognize that the entire system of the state is built to give her wealth and to give her security.

01:08:47.660 They think men and women are equal because they've been told, you know, bullshit about equality and equity, right?

01:08:53.260 And they don't realize that, like, divorce laws are in their favor.

01:08:56.720 Family court laws are in their favor.

01:08:58.420 You know, you have literal politicians coming out and saying that, like, how dare men sit on their couch and play video games?

01:09:05.440 You know, these welfare systems are built for single moms.

01:09:08.340 It's like, fucking what?

01:09:09.960 Like, what do you mean?

01:09:10.500 Like, why ought young men be bled so that single moms can be, oh, because of the children, et cetera.

01:09:16.600 But they're no longer connected to it.

01:09:18.840 See, this is where it really gets down to the philosophy of what is a sacrifice and why that is such a meaningful difference between social security and, like, fraternal order societies.

01:09:29.320 Is that sacrifice is evil.

01:09:32.420 Altruism is evil.

01:09:34.160 Okay, it is absolutely evil when someone tells you that you need to give up what you have, not because you value something or that you value a person, be it your grandmother, your friend, someone that you know is on hard times, but because it is your moral duty to give up what you have earned and what you value for the better of society.

01:09:53.640 It is the most evil thing that a person can say.

01:09:57.100 It is the entire thesis of Atlas Shrugged.

01:09:59.960 The idea that you must give up for welfare because poor people exist or because Africans have AIDS somewhere is evil.

01:10:08.160 Why?

01:10:08.600 What the hell are you talking about?

01:10:09.560 Because you are sacrificing what it is that you value, what you care about, what you as a reasoned man have achieved through your success as the ability to be able to shape your world and your universe and your property for an amorphous person that you have absolutely no value or understanding of.

01:10:27.100 They're not amorphous.

01:10:28.380 They're real flesh and blood human beings.

01:10:30.040 If they're real flesh and blood human beings and you value them, then absolutely.

01:10:33.460 That's what fraternal order societies do.

01:10:35.400 That's why we have the incentive structure of welfare is it destroys work.

01:10:41.080 It destroys value.

01:10:42.220 You just took, like, a really bold stance that I think we need to unpack.

01:10:46.540 Absolutely.

01:10:47.340 I will defend libertarian ideas and Ayn Rand.

01:10:50.960 Absolutely.

01:10:51.100 Until you die and it's going to be very frustrating.

01:10:53.640 So, hold on.

01:10:54.320 So, evil to me, there's bad and there's evil.

01:10:57.540 Okay.

01:10:57.800 Bad is negative consequence.

01:10:59.860 Evil is knowing there will be negative consequence.

01:11:02.760 Absolutely.

01:11:03.060 And then continuing down that path.

01:11:04.840 Absolutely.

01:11:05.480 Okay.

01:11:05.800 All right.

01:11:06.100 Cool.

01:11:06.260 Now, I'm probably evil from your regard, but I don't view myself as evil.

01:11:10.340 Okay.

01:11:11.060 We're not saying the totality of you as a person is evil, right?

01:11:14.000 Sure.

01:11:14.220 I'm saying when you say specific actions.

01:11:15.880 The actions are my advocacy.

01:11:17.200 The advocacy for that action is an evil act.

01:11:19.240 I advocate for things that are evil.

01:11:20.220 Okay.

01:11:20.800 So, hold on.

01:11:21.580 You said, why ought young men be bled?

01:11:24.220 You know, that is evil.

01:11:25.320 And why must they give themselves to these broader institutions that they don't understand?

01:11:29.740 The part of that that I actually agree with is, I think the modern institutions have done

01:11:34.520 a terrible job.

01:11:36.980 I cannot overstate this.

01:11:38.800 Justifying the American commercial empire, justifying internationalism, justifying foreign

01:11:44.720 war, justifying welfare.

01:11:46.780 I think that our states have done almost no work whatsoever justifying the social institutions

01:11:53.580 that presently exist to the next generation that must perpetuate them.

01:11:56.920 And therefore, this entire generation of young men are saying, why?

01:12:01.120 Why do I have to die in the Middle East and North Africa?

01:12:02.960 Why do I have to be a part of selective service?

01:12:04.900 Why do I have to work at Publix for, Publix is a grocery chain.

01:12:08.180 Why do I have to work for $10 an hour, have 15% of my check taken when I could just sit

01:12:12.560 at home, goof off and play video games and smoke pot and just do nothing, right?

01:12:16.000 I understand why young men are saying why, but the truth is that I don't think that like

01:12:20.680 suffering or sacrifice or altruism, uh, you know, for these institutions is bad.

01:12:26.660 I think that you need to give them purpose.

01:12:28.440 You need to give them a mission.

01:12:29.500 You need to tell them why the United States is good, why freedom of conscience, why freedom

01:12:33.480 of speech, why the second amendment, why the fourth amendment, why a limited government

01:12:37.140 is good.

01:12:37.840 And you need to justify that effectively through propaganda.

01:12:41.700 Well, okay.

01:12:42.600 You're selling.

01:12:43.680 Okay.

01:12:43.860 First of all, let's dispense with all of the things.

01:12:45.880 Sorry, I'll get closer.

01:12:47.060 Dispense of all the things that have nothing to do with welfare, like second amendment, first

01:12:51.020 amendment, and not actually on the topic.

01:12:52.540 When you were saying we need to sell foreign wars and we need to sell your money and your

01:12:58.360 ability to accumulate resources better so that we can give, you want microchips, right?

01:13:03.220 No, that's like, you want Funko pops, right?

01:13:05.480 No, actually Funko pops aren't doing too well.

01:13:08.080 Listen, people, people turn to those things.

01:13:11.220 People turn towards materialism when you create a culture via the state and via social security

01:13:16.900 and welfare of high time preference.

01:13:19.340 When you take away resource accumulation and instead supplant it with, sorry, capital

01:13:26.240 accumulation, instead supplant it with capital consumption, right?

01:13:29.840 You create a group of people that is materialistic, that just wants to buy the Funko Pop and the

01:13:34.580 PlayStation, that doesn't have hopes of buying a home because every successive generation has

01:13:39.640 destroyed the fucking market via asset inflation and social security and over 37 trillion dollars

01:13:45.780 of debt, like they have no purpose and it's not because you haven't sold them a good enough

01:13:50.080 purpose, it's because you're stealing their future.

01:13:52.900 Okay, but here's the thing, this is actually my frustration with the right, this is why I

01:13:57.040 get pissed off at Republicans, is because they talk all this game about social conservatism,

01:14:01.860 the family being the most important thing, all that kind of stuff, they're not going to

01:14:04.420 enable any of it.

01:14:05.560 They're going to use the same Darwinian fiscal conservative BS in order to slash the minimal

01:14:10.360 social safety net that we have in order to screw people over even more.

01:14:13.900 And as soon as they slash the social safety net, they're not suddenly going to be like,

01:14:17.240 oh, hey, grocery store worker, suddenly I don't have to pay 20% taxes, I'm going to go

01:14:22.740 ahead and include a dignified wage for you.

01:14:25.340 That's never going to happen.

01:14:26.760 So basically you have the corporations fleecing people, you have a government according to

01:14:30.720 you fleecing people, I'm not necessarily saying that, and here's the thing is, guess

01:14:34.920 what?

01:14:35.280 It sucks to be a man, but that's what being a man is.

01:14:38.640 Being a man is not having to have your fucking wealth stolen at a fucking super state with

01:14:43.120 guns.

01:14:43.800 What the fuck are you talking about?

01:14:44.880 No, no, no, no, but it's giving your pair a tug and sucking it up and doing what's

01:14:49.340 required anyways.

01:14:50.440 Yes, that is being a man.

01:14:51.120 Sacrifice.

01:14:51.640 The very fucking evil I discussed.

01:14:53.380 Wait, sacrifice.

01:14:53.820 It's evil.

01:14:54.320 I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't understand if you're saying that sacrifice is evil or

01:14:58.220 if you're saying that the government is saying sacrifice is evil.

01:15:00.760 I can't tell.

01:15:01.260 No, sacrifice is evil.

01:15:02.580 That is what the government demands and that is what people that justify all of these.

01:15:05.120 Why is sacrifice evil?

01:15:06.560 Sacrifice is one of the most fundamental human virtues on the planet.

01:15:09.820 Because you are giving up what you value for something that you do not value.

01:15:14.680 So that's not sacrifice.

01:15:15.600 Wait, so.

01:15:15.920 That is sacrifice.

01:15:16.740 Hold on, pause, pause, pause.

01:15:17.300 So because I don't value blacks and women, I can just not pay taxes?

01:15:20.600 Pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause, pause.

01:15:21.600 I'm using sacrifice from an objective, this perspective, not necessarily the way that we

01:15:26.500 might use sacrifice colloquially.

01:15:28.020 And I apologize, right?

01:15:29.460 When I say sacrifice, what I mean is that you are giving up something because you have a moral

01:15:34.080 duty or responsibility, even though you don't want to give up something.

01:15:38.180 When people are saying you need.

01:15:39.760 I call that growing up.

01:15:41.200 That is not growing up.

01:15:42.480 Yes, it is.

01:15:43.060 No, listen, listen.

01:15:43.780 You're not getting it.

01:15:44.900 What I'm saying is that it's perfectly fine to give up something that you want now because

01:15:49.680 you value what you will get later.

01:15:52.260 It's perfectly fine to give up.

01:15:54.400 But that's not what fucking social security is.

01:15:56.520 It's saying give it up or you go to jail.

01:15:58.660 Well, sure.

01:15:59.120 Hold on.

01:15:59.660 It's saying give it up or you go to jail so we can fund welfare queens.

01:16:02.680 And we can fund an economy that is consistently fucking you.

01:16:05.700 This is the point, though.

01:16:06.760 Okay.

01:16:07.460 I think that the state has done a terrible job of justifying its existence.

01:16:13.720 If only they sold the involuntary.

01:16:15.960 Yeah, I think that old people eating cat food is a bad thing.

01:16:21.060 I think children from single mothers are not getting it.

01:16:23.560 I'm not done yet.

01:16:24.520 You've yapped for so long.

01:16:25.600 Let me yap.

01:16:26.240 Jesus.

01:16:27.300 This is a yapping program.

01:16:28.620 Just once argue against my arguments.

01:16:29.940 Give me the opportunity to yap.

01:16:30.980 You keep just saying talking points.

01:16:32.500 It's just actually not talking points.

01:16:34.060 It's just things I sincerely believe.

01:16:35.560 What the hell are you talking about?

01:16:36.740 I've heard you give talking points for five minutes.

01:16:38.680 Let me give talking points.

01:16:39.900 I want to address something you said.

01:16:41.720 You said being a man.

01:16:43.100 Sorry, ma.

01:16:43.720 You said it sucks to be a man.

01:16:45.060 I want to leave.

01:16:45.460 Grow up, deal with it.

01:16:46.260 Something to the effect.

01:16:47.060 I completely agree.

01:16:48.040 I completely agree.

01:16:48.680 It is the nature of men to stop being whiny bitches and realize you are going to get pushed

01:16:54.180 in the mud, trampled over and stepped on every step of the way, and you have to get up and

01:16:58.100 crawl through it.

01:16:59.100 That will always be the case.

01:17:00.640 I see a lot of guys on the internet saying it's unfair.

01:17:02.700 Women have it easier, and they don't like it.

01:17:04.740 Exactly.

01:17:05.060 My response is, and grow up, be a man.

01:17:06.960 That being said, it is also the historical fact that men in these positions revolt against

01:17:12.760 their systems and burn them down sometimes.

01:17:15.460 True.

01:17:16.140 And that's where...

01:17:17.220 Hold on.

01:17:17.720 Let me...

01:17:18.360 Yeah.

01:17:18.560 Jesus Christ.

01:17:19.520 So, sorry, ma.

01:17:20.420 Sorry for taking the Lord's name in vain.

01:17:22.080 Anyways, my point would be that if you want men to not revolt, men are capable of suffering.

01:17:29.740 They're capable of going through sacrifice positive.

01:17:32.180 Put parentheses positive after that word sacrifice.

01:17:34.120 They are capable of enduring so many things as long as you give them a purpose in order

01:17:39.820 to endure those things.

01:17:41.300 And so, when I say, you're saying like, well, sacrifice in the objectivist sense is I'm

01:17:46.140 giving something up for something that I don't ultimately value.

01:17:48.580 What I would say is, well, we need to value poor people.

01:17:53.100 We need to value the marginalized.

01:17:55.140 We need to make sure that they're productive.

01:17:56.840 We need to make sure that...

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01:18:43.400 Our soft power and our hard power are all over the world because I do genuinely think that America has the best governing system on the planet

01:18:50.820 and I want that to spread across the entire world.

01:18:53.640 So, like, sacrifice, positive, is a part of this.

01:18:58.440 But we're not selling young men on sacrifice and we're also not giving them a fair shake either.

01:19:03.060 We're basically, we're sucking everything out of them and then we're not giving them a fair return.

01:19:07.180 Can people opt out of that system?

01:19:10.080 Sure. Move to Alaska, live in a cabin.

01:19:12.580 Alaska's pretty nice. They got long summers. People don't realize. Long growing season. The watermelons are huge.

01:19:16.060 If you pay less taxes, you're just going to pay taxes in Alaska.

01:19:17.920 No, no, no. You get a surplus in Alaska. They pay you.

01:19:20.780 Yeah, for the oil.

01:19:21.440 Well, they pay you a dividend, but you're still going to pay sale tax, still going to pay gas.

01:19:25.660 Sure, sure, sure.

01:19:26.260 Still going to pay income tax. Your taxes are going to be more than that.

01:19:28.620 Okay, go to South Sudan.

01:19:29.880 Actually, real quick. Everything's substantially more expensive in Alaska.

01:19:33.460 Alaska, it's not so much the taxes, it's getting milk to Fairbanks, you know?

01:19:37.380 Yeah, for sure.

01:19:38.340 Do you want reindeer milk?

01:19:39.920 Well, that's also what happens.

01:19:41.440 That's what you pay for liberty.

01:19:43.000 That's also what happens when the government comes in and takes up like three quarters of the land and then won't let people use those resources.

01:19:49.060 We should invade Alaska.

01:19:50.360 No, so again, listen.

01:19:53.480 I'm trying to connect these things and it seems like maybe I'm not communicating it. Maybe the topic's too.

01:20:00.440 No, you're doing it fine. I just disagree.

01:20:01.840 No, well, you haven't actually argued against anything, so that's fine.

01:20:06.820 I'm talking about a process here and you're saying we need to give men purpose. I agree.

01:20:11.940 But the thing is that you can't centrally plan cultural change in the way that genders are valued.

01:20:18.240 Like you can't.

01:20:19.320 Like what has occurred is that you have taken away their role and you can't just go, well, I'll teach classes that teach men to be badass or I'll sell these ideas.

01:20:28.260 You literally just said that the government has robbed people of their sense of gender roles or whatever.

01:20:34.760 And then you said that you can't centrally plan it.

01:20:36.920 That's not a contradiction.

01:20:38.360 Yeah, it would be because.

01:20:39.440 No, they robbed people and the consequence.

01:20:41.180 Leave them to budge alone and that could be a central plan.

01:20:43.320 That's not how contradictions work at all.

01:20:44.800 It could be accidental.

01:20:45.480 No, I'm saying they robbed people to solve this presumed problem that they fucking created with regulations in the 1920s.

01:20:52.020 I reject what you said.

01:20:53.460 I know because you don't know.

01:20:54.400 There was a real problem in the 1930s, which we all agreed to, which is effectively that the depowered fraternal orders were insufficient to deal with the economic moment.

01:21:03.760 Yes.

01:21:04.120 Government caused regulations and then government reacted poorly in the Great Depression.

01:21:09.800 And then they came in with a fucking band-aid.

01:21:12.360 So you're saying if in the 10s and 20s the fraternal orders had continued to exist, the fraternal orders would have been able to bounce back the Great Depression.

01:21:21.220 I think that there is an overwhelming amount of evidence that policies such as the New Deal and FDR elongated and made the Great Depression worse.

01:21:29.520 I think there is an underwhelming amount of evidence that the fraternal orders would have been capable of dealing with the Great Depression.

01:21:35.200 I think that Kinsey and economic theory and this concept of prime the pump has failed us many, many times and that individuals ought to research all your business.

01:21:43.300 You say this.

01:21:44.480 We are inside a room covered in international goods in plastic.

01:21:48.560 What the fuck does that have to do?

01:21:50.120 Because we're in the most successful rich society that's ever lived.

01:21:54.000 So why are we saying that we failed?

01:21:56.060 Brother, brother, brother.

01:21:56.620 We didn't fail.

01:21:57.400 We succeeded.

01:21:58.020 Brother, brother, I have made so many arguments and then all you have responded to.

01:22:02.240 Come on.

01:22:03.000 Let me make another one.

01:22:03.840 This is not conducive to the debate.

01:22:04.940 I got to say, like, just saying over and over again you're not addressing the debate doesn't actually move the debate forward.

01:22:09.300 As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I addressed exactly what you said.

01:22:11.340 What I would argue is the definition of a successful nation, I would argue that you can say we've become wealthy.

01:22:19.960 Materially successful.

01:22:20.720 Materially successful.

01:22:21.740 However, there are challenges.

01:22:23.440 One thing I like to point out to a lot of these lefties is that a poor person in the United States today has better dental care than Rockefeller did.

01:22:30.740 It's an old joke.

01:22:32.440 And it's because of technological advancement.

01:22:33.840 But you do mention that we're surrounded by plastics.

01:22:36.660 One thing I would argue is, you know, right now we're dealing with all these tariffs, right?

01:22:41.380 And I was watching the TV.

01:22:42.660 I was watching the TV, as I often do.

01:22:43.760 And a man said, why won't anyone buy our beef?

01:22:46.780 We've got great beef.

01:22:47.960 Why won't anyone buy it?

01:22:49.240 The argument being that they put restrictions on us so that they can capitalize their own internal markets for the sake of their economy.

01:22:55.240 I would counter the reason foreign countries don't buy our goods is because they're full of poison.

01:23:00.300 We've got artificial chemicals and crap in them.

01:23:03.580 And so the reason we don't sell Pop-Tarts in Europe is because Europe has banned TBHQ and artificial dyes in this way.

01:23:09.900 Very tasty.

01:23:10.660 I've got a bunch of them downstairs.

01:23:12.800 But they are full of crap.

01:23:14.320 And so my point is, when you argue that we are the most successful in history, I wonder if that is, if we were to quantify what it means by success, could we argue that we've become the most decadent but arguably self-destructive through our wealth?

01:23:27.000 Well, it's Rome.

01:23:27.980 We're 100% in Rome.

01:23:30.040 And so give me some latitude, okay?

01:23:33.500 The Rome, I think we, I do anyways, I watch Gladiator and I see the Patriot that is Maximus and I'm like, God, that looks cool.

01:23:43.260 Like armor, gladius, I know fire arrows weren't a thing, but they look fantastic.

01:23:48.340 And, you know, riding horses, Spanish estate, like all that kind of stuff.

01:23:51.880 And I'm like, man, that is a cool society to live in.

01:23:53.880 But the truth is that Rome was corrupted and ultimately destroyed through its decadence, through perpetual war, through colonialism, through imperialism, through corrupt senators and corrupt consuls of Rome and all that kind of stuff.

01:24:08.880 And so the thing about it is I'm really proud of what America has achieved already.

01:24:13.420 But the truth is that there is a spiritual rot.

01:24:15.240 I think we all agree that there's a spiritual rot and liberalism, capital L, the governing system, is not sufficient to deal with the spiritual rot of our society.

01:24:24.240 I agree.

01:24:24.720 And so –

01:24:25.520 That's my whole argument, yeah.

01:24:26.340 But I don't think that eliminating the federal government is going to solve that spiritual rot.

01:24:32.120 I think it needs to come from us.

01:24:33.520 I actually – I feel like I'm kind of in between both you guys in your points, but I think you just made a really great point that one could argue that welfare does enable certain things.

01:24:43.380 But the issue that I largely see, often discuss, is spiritual rot or a cultural decay I would refer to as such.

01:24:50.400 We don't have community anymore.

01:24:51.740 People don't come together.

01:24:53.060 This is not just a governmental thing.

01:24:55.020 It's a technological thing.

01:24:55.960 It's – you could argue – I think you guys are – you know, it's like that problem where there's the six and the nine on the ground and you're looking at it and you're looking at it.

01:25:03.020 It's a six.

01:25:04.000 And right.

01:25:04.580 And so I think what the argument largely is you overwhelmingly view it as a problem of the state.

01:25:09.600 You overwhelmingly view it as a problem of industrialization.

01:25:12.300 Or spirituality.

01:25:14.600 No, I disagree.

01:25:15.460 So the debate is – the debate topic is about welfare, right?

01:25:19.280 That's why I'm focusing so heavily on welfare.

01:25:21.280 Again, like I said, I don't want to ever do a univariate analysis.

01:25:23.720 You know, again, when I bring up Amelia Durkheim, right, in functionalism, right, he – anime is not – it's about, you know, like the concept of normlessness is about – you know, the division of labor and society is about the industrial revolution.

01:25:38.220 It's about moving away from an agrarian lifestyle with their extended families into cities where now we have the nuclear family and we're less connected.

01:25:45.760 Like these things all interweave and interplay.

01:25:48.900 It's a chicken or egg scenario.

01:25:50.480 So my argument – let me be quick, right?

01:25:52.920 Like my argument is that welfare is a component of this and that it's not helping and that there are better ways to do it and that the market does it better.

01:26:01.860 I'm not arguing that welfare is the sole reason feminists exist or modern problems.

01:26:06.780 You know what I mean?

01:26:07.220 Let me ask you a question.

01:26:08.780 If we were to today, say, we are going to phase out the social security system, do you believe elderly people would die?

01:26:15.340 Well, I think elderly people are already dying, right?

01:26:17.520 Like I think –

01:26:18.520 Okay, would they die quicker due to starvation, dehydration, neglect, and lack of care?

01:26:24.000 I mean it depends on – what do you mean by phase out?

01:26:25.960 Because if I was going to phase out social security, right, I would say everyone that is 18 – or everyone that gets a worker's permit, 16 above, right, you no longer pay social security tax.

01:26:35.380 And also, you're not going to get any, right?

01:26:39.180 Like we have to begin to slowly take the beginnings of the market and phase it out.

01:26:43.480 So let's hold on.

01:26:44.040 Once you implement that, over the ensuing decades, will people die from neglect and starvation?

01:26:48.140 I think we would be far more prosperous and less elderly people would.

01:26:50.480 That's not the question I asked.

01:26:51.420 Okay, go ahead.

01:26:52.040 Sorry, I was –

01:26:52.500 Well, let me add this.

01:26:53.460 The estimates are around 2.5 to 4 workers need to enter the system for every social security recipient.

01:27:01.000 So should we implement your system where we say 18, you know, from this point on, no more social security, you don't pay but you don't get, that would still collapse the system largely.

01:27:11.800 The question is if we were to end social security in any capacity, would it result in any number of increased deaths of elderly individuals?

01:27:22.060 I would expect it to.

01:27:23.720 Again, I would say it depends on how it's implemented or what it does.

01:27:27.660 But, yeah, there's probably going to be poverty in some degree.

01:27:29.820 Like you're pro-tariffs, the Trump tariffs, right, as a negotiating tack at the very least, right?

01:27:35.240 Well, I would say that I'm pro-tariffs as a strategy.

01:27:39.060 As Trump has implemented them, I'm a bit skeptical but willing to see where it goes.

01:27:42.320 Right, exactly, right.

01:27:43.100 So you recognize that there is some level of pain when we've been getting fucked over by other countries that say,

01:27:50.000 okay, now we're ready to play ball, we're going to have to have some pain in order to play ball.

01:27:54.500 Indeed, my question was about the death.

01:27:55.820 Well, no, so I'm using it as a comparison, right?

01:27:59.740 If we have a, the CBO has said by 2050 we're going to be $121 trillion in debt and mostly that's social security, right?

01:28:07.760 There's going to be some shocks.

01:28:09.420 There's going to be some economic growing pains.

01:28:11.460 I don't know whether or not that's going to lead to death because I don't know, as I said, you know, with the Hayek quote, right?

01:28:17.460 You know, centralized systems destroy spontaneous order.

01:28:20.280 When you pull those systems out, I don't know that there's going to be more death.

01:28:23.260 I think in the long run we'll definitely be better, but in the short term, I don't know, maybe.

01:28:27.580 I don't think anyone believes you.

01:28:29.300 And I, in that specific point, and I mean that disrespectfully, I have no problem saying that when recessions hit, people die.

01:28:37.900 For sure, for sure.

01:28:38.600 If we were to shut down in any capacity of social security today, I believe that would increase, it would decrease the lifespan for the existing elderly, would likely result in death.

01:28:50.880 I have no problem with admitting these things are likely to be for simple reasons.

01:28:55.020 I just think that people need to be honest about what you get from them.

01:28:57.940 The challenge, of course, is then humans are largely scared to admit that they'd be willing to accept death to correct the system.

01:29:04.240 Sometimes you might have to, but, you know, my thing is like.

01:29:07.540 Can I be, can I be, can I be more frank than if, like, I have, I am absolutely willing to accept death.

01:29:13.980 What I'm, and even if old people die because the social security goes away, I'm willing to say not only that they die, I'm willing to say that it was more just than social security existing and keeping them alive because taxation is theft and it's evil.

01:29:27.940 What I am saying is, is that I can't commit one way or the other that taking away one of the biggest tax burdens that on, on the entire economy is necessarily going to lead to more death because I don't know how the market will respond to that.

01:29:43.360 So, uh, I think the likelihood is that it will, but in the same way, taking away alcohol from an alcoholic or heroin from a heroin addict would kill them as well.

01:29:50.940 Right, right, right.

01:29:51.800 It might be better in the long term.

01:29:53.720 But, but it requires an intermediary of some sort to prevent that.

01:29:57.340 Right, I just don't want you to think I'm being dishonest.

01:29:58.960 I'm just like, I just don't know what the economy will do.

01:30:00.440 My point was, and again, I didn't mean it disrespectfully, is that, of course, I feel like most people thinking about this, even if they're thinking we shouldn't have the social security or welfare state, know that it saved lives, even if it created problems.

01:30:14.640 Like in the Great Depression, elderly, many, many were impoverished, dying, they were finding bodies.

01:30:19.500 And so they said, okay, we better intervene.

01:30:21.640 Otherwise, how are we going to pay for the body removal?

01:30:24.080 Like there's bad things that happen, even if it's one person dying.

01:30:26.060 So I think as adults, we just recognize we try to save lives all the time.

01:30:31.780 Sometimes the act of trying to save lives could make the problem worse in the long term.

01:30:34.640 It's enabling, right.

01:30:35.580 Sometimes it's enabling.

01:30:36.620 Like you wouldn't buy heroin for a heroin addict just because they'll die without it.

01:30:40.240 But hold on.

01:30:40.980 Actually?

01:30:41.560 See?

01:30:42.360 Yeah, sorry.

01:30:42.960 We have clinics that do this.

01:30:44.380 Sure, you would taper them, et cetera, right?

01:30:47.400 Well, hold on.

01:30:47.960 This is perfectly metaphorical.

01:30:49.060 So for instance, like in Switzerland or whatever, they have clinics that are state-supported that effectively give you the exact amount of dose

01:30:55.900 that you need in order to get through your day.

01:30:57.740 But in the meantime, they're trying to help them with all the things that have addiction issues,

01:31:00.720 like employment or reengaging with their family or becoming a part of the community again.

01:31:05.480 And so what I would say is that government can be intelligent.

01:31:08.180 We are used to a very dumb, very ineffective form of governance in the United States of America.

01:31:13.920 But I still think that government can be done in intelligent ways.

01:31:17.060 And then one of the things that I wanted to bring up was we were talking about the spiritual rot that's inside the United States of America.

01:31:22.180 I think that what would happen if we cut Social Security, even if we tapered off, we are such a self-centered, hedonistic, nihilistic culture

01:31:32.080 that I almost guarantee you that if there were like 20-year-olds who were going to school and getting their first job and growing up.

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01:32:23.140 Grandma is like on the side of the road being homeless, and they had to make a choice between buying the PlayStation 1,000 or feeding grandma.

01:32:30.280 They're going to pick the PlayStation 1,000.

01:32:32.220 Yep.

01:32:32.420 Because the PlayStation 1,000, I only have gross juice.

01:32:35.780 Because they are rats with the electrodes strapped to their brain to hit the dopamine button.

01:32:39.760 Right.

01:32:40.400 Again, this is-

01:32:41.320 Hold on.

01:32:41.600 That is not necessarily a moral indictment.

01:32:43.680 That is also like a-

01:32:44.820 It's like a physical reality.

01:32:46.280 Yeah.

01:32:46.600 Like we are trained this way by not just the environment we're in, but also by nature.

01:32:52.120 Right.

01:32:52.300 This is why I was trying to elucidate the role of anime and structural functionalism, right?

01:32:58.980 Like what these systems do and how systems affect society.

01:33:03.800 And so it's important to recognize that I don't disagree with you that if you cut off something immediately, right, that there would be social consequences.

01:33:12.220 I mean, we saw, for example, in China, they had the one-child policy, and people were leaving babies in the market to die and starve to death over days.

01:33:20.820 And then they got rid of the one-child policy, and they're like, the birth rates will come back, right?

01:33:24.020 Except you can't just make a culture magically think having babies is good when for years you made them think it was evil and you punish them.

01:33:34.800 That's a multi-generational problem that doesn't get solved overnight, right?

01:33:38.760 Like I'm all for us having a conversation about how do we get rid of welfare?

01:33:44.120 How do we make the state-

01:33:45.360 How do we shrink the state?

01:33:46.600 How do we be more intelligent about the services that we do use, right?

01:33:50.120 But what I'm just trying to get to initially is an understanding that welfare is a part of this problem and that we have to recognize that.

01:34:00.440 I would agree that welfare has created a lot of issues, enabling problems, et cetera.

01:34:06.860 I think the – I feel like it's a complete technological revolution which is causing a lot of this.

01:34:12.460 The decentralization of media has created, bifurcated – and I mean more than two.

01:34:17.940 For sure, yeah.

01:34:18.900 But the decentralization of media, no, has shattered American culture.

01:34:23.280 Multiculturalism is not functional.

01:34:26.200 It doesn't make sense.

01:34:27.640 It doesn't.

01:34:29.140 The argument initially of multiculturalism was predicated upon a single umbrella culture like the American Constitution for which others exist within so long as you abide by the top.

01:34:39.040 But that breaks.

01:34:40.200 And so when you get too many different distinct cultures – and I'm not referring to Christian and Muslim.

01:34:45.160 I'm referring to anarchists, leftists, communists, tanky, libertarian, right, paleo-Christian and orthodox and all of these different moral identities conflict with each other.

01:34:57.200 Then you don't have a cohesive structure of governance.

01:35:00.760 If – the way I like to describe it is that if everybody had the – and I always use Seamus Coughlin because he's a devout Catholic.

01:35:07.480 If everybody had the same moral worldview as Seamus Coughlin, this conversation wouldn't happen.

01:35:11.860 There would be no need for police.

01:35:13.400 There would be no need for standing armies.

01:35:14.760 None of it would matter.

01:35:15.780 But, of course, the world is comprised of a bunch of different moral worldviews, declaration of rights, etc.

01:35:21.540 And when you start bringing those things into one government, the government starts to fracture.

01:35:26.340 And then you are going to get an anarchist who says, why am I paying for you?

01:35:31.340 Whereas if this was a singular – but it's true.

01:35:33.700 It's true.

01:35:33.900 I'm not saying you're wrong.

01:35:34.480 I'm saying if we were a singular Christian nationalist country where everybody was devout Catholic, people would be like, I am honored to give my money to the state because the state funds the church.

01:35:45.480 They'd love it.

01:35:46.680 Well, that's where I view liberalism as probably the maximally best governing system while still being relatively coherent.

01:35:54.320 Because liberalism is basically you show up.

01:35:58.200 You do – oh, sorry.

01:35:59.120 You show up.

01:36:00.060 You pay your taxes.

01:36:01.380 You do whatever you want to do with your free time.

01:36:03.140 And then that's it.

01:36:03.840 That's literally like – from a liberal perspective, that's all that's required is show up, pay your taxes, and don't be violent to your neighbors.

01:36:09.740 And this is to clarify the American – we refer to that as traditional or social liberalism.

01:36:14.320 Sure.

01:36:14.760 Like distinct from John Locke classical liberalism.

01:36:18.140 I suppose.

01:36:19.120 I probably should read them.

01:36:20.520 But the –

01:36:21.600 They'd be more like me.

01:36:22.640 Yeah.

01:36:22.820 Right, yeah.

01:36:23.280 Exactly.

01:36:24.300 But what I find interesting in this conversation that I also want to share before we move on is – so this is basically like – if we're analogizing this to Rome, I'm a Roman soldier veteran.

01:36:34.220 And I'm saying you need to fight and die for the glory of Rome.

01:36:36.980 But Rome is corrupt.

01:36:38.580 And the Holy Land.

01:36:39.320 And the – well, I would at least take back Constantinople.

01:36:43.080 But anyways, the point is that like you have to have purpose.

01:36:46.740 You have to have a vision.

01:36:47.520 You have to encourage the next generation.

01:36:48.580 And you have to acknowledge the rot.

01:36:50.340 There's spiritual rot in our society, okay?

01:36:52.780 But hold on.

01:36:53.480 I'm sorry.

01:36:53.780 I have two more points.

01:36:55.360 Fabian, I think, is more of like a – I know you're a veteran, but you're a citizen of Rome who is saying that I don't think the system works.

01:37:01.380 I think we should let it all burn, relatively speaking.

01:37:03.840 And then I think that the –

01:37:05.640 All right.

01:37:06.240 No, I'm serious.

01:37:07.020 Hold on.

01:37:07.760 It's not the welfare state.

01:37:08.660 I think that you say that.

01:37:09.320 I'm not an accelerationist.

01:37:10.480 I don't want to let it burn, right?

01:37:11.760 I want to –

01:37:12.220 Hold on.

01:37:13.000 Remove the hyperbole from let it burn.

01:37:15.420 He wants it dismantled.

01:37:16.940 Yeah.

01:37:17.600 Yeah.

01:37:17.860 You want the imperial Roman system dismantled.

01:37:20.520 Since we're talking about Rome, my channel name is Fabian Liberty because it's an inverse of, like, the socialist organization, the Fabian Society, right?

01:37:28.340 It's named after Fabius Maximus, right?

01:37:30.380 It is named after the strategy that, like, I don't think accelerationism and, like, dismantling everything instantly and, like, oh, it'll be great once the system is destroyed.

01:37:39.880 No, I think we have to slowly sell these ideas.

01:37:42.100 As you said, right?

01:37:42.980 Great men plant trees of which the shade they will never sit in, right?

01:37:46.380 Like, I am trying to push an idea that says, hey, maybe a little less welfare, right?

01:37:50.060 Hey, maybe a little bit more privatization.

01:37:51.740 Hey, maybe a little bit more efficiency.

01:37:53.600 And then eventually I think I want to change the culture.

01:37:56.680 I want to change it so that it does happen slowly so that we move to a better place.

01:37:59.640 I think none of it really matters.

01:38:01.880 The only thing that matters is that a large population that shares a moral worldview exerts authority on those that they disagree with.

01:38:08.720 Wait, hold up.

01:38:09.460 You're going to have to go deeper.

01:38:10.440 What?

01:38:10.940 You're saying might makes right, I guess.

01:38:13.460 So not that it makes right.

01:38:15.560 It's just that people with power will enforce whatever they want to enforce.

01:38:18.560 So, for example, I had this argument the other day with Tiffany Cianci where she said she's a free speech absolutist as the founding fathers prescribed to the First Amendment.

01:38:28.500 I don't think they did.

01:38:29.240 They did not.

01:38:29.740 They certainly did not.

01:38:30.620 The Second Amendment never applied until 2008 and technically not even until 2010 with McDonald v. Chicago.

01:38:36.260 The First Amendment didn't even apply up until the 90s.

01:38:39.500 George Carlin was arrested for swearing.

01:38:41.160 You couldn't even swear on TV, which is public airwaves.

01:38:43.560 The government regulated your right to speak what you wanted to speak.

01:38:46.500 So the Ninth and Tenth Amendment, the right of the states and the people reserved to them, has been trampled over tremendously.

01:38:51.980 So my point is everybody comes out and says, this is the way it should be.

01:38:57.960 This is how the system should operate.

01:38:59.700 And the only thing that has ever really mattered is that a large enough group of people lent their power to a moral ideologue who decided to enforce it in a specific way.

01:39:06.800 Yeah, so might doesn't make right, but might does make reality.

01:39:10.360 And that's it, right?

01:39:11.920 Now, I did want to brush upon one thing where you were talking about, you know, the dangers of a multicultural society, right, where people no longer share values and they're not connected within the same community.

01:39:21.920 You're absolutely correct.

01:39:24.860 I mean, I would also like to point out that one of the reasons that I think that we have such a big immigration issue in this country is that corporations and NGOs work to push immigration because they need to prop up a failing welfare state.

01:39:37.920 Like, we have brought in—

01:39:38.980 But they're also propping up a failing birth rate as well.

01:39:42.500 I agree.

01:39:43.900 That's what happens when you destroy resource accumulation.

01:39:46.360 That's what happens when men start waiting until their 30s before they can finally start dating young women.

01:39:51.500 This is a point that I can engage with, though.

01:39:52.360 This is what happens when the dating market is—

01:39:53.560 This isn't the welfare state, though.

01:39:54.440 This is the sexual revolution.

01:39:55.780 This 100% has to do with contraception and condoms.

01:39:58.400 Okay.

01:39:58.640 So when we're talking about—because the entire world, there's plenty of different areas of the planet that don't have the same welfare stuff.

01:40:03.900 They're still experiencing the same problem.

01:40:05.520 Basically, when you give people contraception, when you give them condoms, the birth rate, like, kind of plummets and it trends towards two.

01:40:11.760 There's maybe two or three countries—

01:40:12.760 It's way less than that.

01:40:13.360 Yeah, there's two or three countries that have demographic replacement birth rates, and it's like Mongolia and Israel, right?

01:40:22.940 And so Mongolia does that because they're right next to China, and let's face it, they like banging and riding horses and stuff.

01:40:28.660 And then Israel does it because they feel like they're constantly under threat because they underwent, like, a genocide or an ethnocide at the early of the 20th century.

01:40:36.140 I almost guarantee you if you gave them an environment in which they weren't under threat in suffering a recent ethnocide or genocide, their demographic replacement—

01:40:43.520 Okay, okay, okay, hold on, hold on.

01:40:45.240 Hold on.

01:40:45.580 You made the argument, right?

01:40:46.580 It is this thing.

01:40:48.060 The answer is never univariate, right?

01:40:50.320 Like, I agree that birth rates and family planning are made possible—

01:40:54.140 Sure, but it's not just to support the welfare state.

01:40:55.480 It's also to support our economy.

01:40:56.780 Can I ruin everything by making a point?

01:40:59.200 The birth rate of Gaza is higher than Israel.

01:41:01.440 Yes, that's absolutely true.

01:41:03.680 I would still say that they're under threat.

01:41:06.000 They're under threat.

01:41:06.580 But no, but so—

01:41:07.300 I was just joking about making an answer.

01:41:09.980 Sorry, Mark.

01:41:10.340 I agree that when you have contraception, right, when women enter the workforce, when modern hygiene for women products become available, when indoor plumbing becomes available, when the birth control pill, that all of these things have an effect on the growth of families and the birth rate, right?

01:41:29.060 What I am saying is that there is a chicken-and-egg scenario.

01:41:33.520 Sure.

01:41:33.820 That, like, I agree that these things allow women to wait a longer time to have children, which lowers the range of time that they are fertile, right, which, of course, lowers the amount of children that they tend to have over a period of time.

01:41:47.080 Obviously, technological innovations in IVF and things like that extend that window to a certain degree, right?

01:41:52.200 So both of these things are true.

01:41:53.920 But what I am saying is that when men are no longer seen as providers because they work nine-to-five jobs and massive chunks of their taxes go to prop up women and go to protect women, and then on top of that, they don't have the same resource accumulation.

01:42:12.820 And also, on top of that, there is no necessity for men, right?

01:42:19.860 I absolutely agree that men have to go through trials and tribulations in order to become men, but there is no necessity.

01:42:25.520 The state does everything for you, whereas before, men knew that they needed to go out and bust ass if they wanted to make sure that they could take care of their parents and if they wanted to have a family.

01:42:35.220 And all of these things being devoid of them have changed the way that women view men.

01:42:40.360 Women do not view men in any level of respect, partially because they've checked out, but partially because they're not achieving things, but partially because they're protected.

01:42:49.220 But this is, okay, here's my point, though.

01:42:51.900 I hear what you're saying, but one of the things that you said was prop up and protect women.

01:42:56.080 Now, this is through the state, through taxation, and therefore it feels more ephemeral, and therefore it's the negative sacrifice that you were talking about.

01:43:02.780 You're paying for an altruism that you don't necessarily agree with, okay?

01:43:05.660 Yes.

01:43:06.060 I hear you.

01:43:06.660 However, what I am here to say, which is going to be uncomfortable for young men, is suck it up, buttercup.

01:43:12.920 Your previous generations also went through a bunch of garbage.

01:43:16.780 The generation before that went through even more.

01:43:18.660 The generation before that went through even more.

01:43:20.180 And on top of that, if enough men check out of society and they start smoking pot, playing video games, not being productive, not paying their taxes, not etc., this is all going to fall apart.

01:43:30.720 Agreed.

01:43:31.000 Agreed.

01:43:31.640 This is the easiest revolution ever.

01:43:33.280 Guys, you don't got to fight.

01:43:34.040 You just got to sit around and play video games.

01:43:34.660 You just got to sit around and do nothing because the entire economic system is going to collapse.

01:43:37.580 Yeah.

01:43:37.900 So what I'm saying is, if you do like eating good food, if you do like good entertainment, if you do like the ability to date women, if you do like a peaceful society in which you don't murder people, then you need to get up off your ass.

01:43:51.260 I agree with everything you're saying, but quick point, right?

01:43:54.740 I'm sorry.

01:43:55.300 Am I annoying?

01:43:56.060 No, no, no.

01:43:56.680 No, quick point, right?

01:43:58.300 I agree with you that we need to teach that message to men.

01:44:01.360 I agree that it's important.

01:44:02.320 I agree with everything that you just said.

01:44:03.580 You just state stealing from them?

01:44:05.400 No, what I'm saying is, is that the problem is, is if we're going to talk about pragmatics, then we have to be honest about pragmatics.

01:44:11.160 No amount of education, no amount of like, you can spend billions on like, don't smoke cigarettes ads.

01:44:17.360 And you know what happens?

01:44:19.480 Barely the needle moves.

01:44:21.180 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

01:44:22.200 I think this is a bad example because-

01:44:23.660 Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.

01:44:25.360 The generation is substantively down.

01:44:26.400 Let me finish, let me finish, let me finish.

01:44:28.020 Okay, that's a bad example.

01:44:29.200 It's not a bad example.

01:44:30.100 Over time, over generations, it changed.

01:44:33.320 Sure.

01:44:33.600 For sure.

01:44:34.060 Over the introduction of vaping, it changed to some degree.

01:44:37.080 But the thing that has immediate impact, what we're talking about is incentives and behavior from the state, right?

01:44:42.840 You can put out campaigns, you can talk to young men, you can do what you want with them, and you're going to have some effect.

01:44:48.080 And I hope you do.

01:44:49.160 I really hope you do.

01:44:50.000 Because I believe, just like you do, that those messages need to be sent to young men.

01:44:54.140 But the problem is, is just like a gas tax, just like a cigarette tax, a tax on working, which is what we have, a gargantuan tax on building wealth, working businesses, et cetera, massively disincentivizes that behavior.

01:45:09.480 And like some classes and some fucking streamers telling them some things, and like a couple of like, we need to sell these things better, is not going to have the same effect as the state's intervention.

01:45:19.700 And then I would go left wing, and then I would say that we need living wages.

01:45:22.920 So I think it is perfectly fine if there are young men out there that say, I'm going to argue for the same position as Fabian Liberty, because you want to fight for your country, and you want to fight to change it.

01:45:34.240 I accept that.

01:45:35.020 I also think that some people may say, you know what, I've decided to protest by sitting around playing video games and smoking pot.

01:45:42.080 But I also think that there are people, I've met them, who complain but don't want to engage.

01:45:47.860 And my attitude for them is, my friend, you can easily go down to Mexico, you can go to Alaska, there's a great movie about it, Into the Wild.

01:45:57.600 There is no requirement that you live within the system of roads, military, police, EMTs, clean running water, air conditioning and water.

01:46:05.960 Most jurisdictions have laws requiring that they provide water to you.

01:46:10.120 Well, maybe not most, but it's because it's typical.

01:46:12.500 I believe Arizona has a law.

01:46:13.620 I could be wrong, but these Mojave states, if you walk into an establishment, they must provide water if they ask for it, because you die.

01:46:23.300 So, you know, I look at it like, we all have clean running water, even if you're homeless.

01:46:29.660 You can walk into a Taco Bell and ask for a cup, they'll give you one.

01:46:32.440 That's tremendous luxury.

01:46:33.560 Clean running water, you're not going to, man, people used to drink beer all the time because the water was dirty.

01:46:38.300 And now we have clean running water everywhere.

01:46:40.260 So there's a wealth, even if you decide to do nothing.

01:46:42.560 So it is fascinating to me when I encounter, again, I'll say for your position, I want to stay in this country.

01:46:49.420 I want to fight to change it.

01:46:50.560 Absolutely commendable and respectable.

01:46:51.860 You disagree with how the system operates and you're going to stay here.

01:46:54.080 And I assume you pay your taxes.

01:46:55.720 Well, I mean, I don't pay that many because I'm poor, but yeah.

01:46:58.020 No, no, no.

01:46:59.160 That was going to be one of my points, you son of a bitch.

01:47:01.000 But this is my point.

01:47:02.160 You don't like it.

01:47:03.720 You're engaging with it to try and change it versus something that you believe would be better.

01:47:06.980 Yeah, I'm not.

01:47:07.560 The people I meet who argue that, you know, I don't want to, I shouldn't, I'll be like, you have the option not to.

01:47:13.780 Yeah.

01:47:14.000 You can go to a bunch of different countries.

01:47:16.320 South Sudan.

01:47:17.180 I mean, it's hard to get to, but yeah.

01:47:19.160 I think there's other choices.

01:47:20.900 That's a fair point.

01:47:21.500 It's a war zone, but, you know, besides that.

01:47:23.640 But you could go to, like, I got to be honest, there's areas of the Rockies.

01:47:26.760 Ain't nobody's going to bother you.

01:47:27.900 Sure.

01:47:28.040 And then the argument I hear from people is, why should I leave my society?

01:47:31.680 You were born into a society that, again, was built by other people, and you have been asked, let's equate it this way.

01:47:38.960 You are growing up in a house, and your parents say, it's time to pay rent.

01:47:41.740 You say, that's not fair.

01:47:42.420 Why should I have to?

01:47:43.220 You're free to leave.

01:47:44.360 You don't have to stay.

01:47:45.200 Yeah, no, agreed.

01:47:45.720 Yeah.

01:47:46.460 No, I mean, like, the most anarcho-capitalist societies in America right now would be, like, the Amish, right?

01:47:51.800 And not, like, the click-clack, click-clack, but the beachy Amish, right?

01:47:55.700 Like, those that, like, still use cell phones, you know, still work regular jobs, et cetera.

01:48:00.140 Like, those are going to be—

01:48:01.600 They're not on the street.

01:48:02.460 They sell pet milk, they call it.

01:48:04.860 Pet milk.

01:48:05.320 Well, they call it pet milk because the laws make it illegal for them to sell their fucking milk.

01:48:08.820 Oh, I've been on the internet for way too long.

01:48:10.400 I thought it was something else.

01:48:11.160 No.

01:48:13.600 No, no, no, no.

01:48:14.460 It's just another way to try and circumnavigate the massive—

01:48:16.760 It's illegal to sell raw milk.

01:48:18.380 Sure.

01:48:18.860 But if it's for pet consumption, the jars say not for human consumption, and people walk up, buy a bottle, crack it, and drink it.

01:48:24.300 I like civilization more than I like this anarchist.

01:48:27.400 I'm all for—

01:48:28.100 Sorry, real quick.

01:48:28.640 I want to talk about the protesters who were smoking pot and playing video games.

01:48:31.600 So here's the thing.

01:48:33.760 I'm not a religious literalist.

01:48:36.420 My mom will be disappointed in that.

01:48:38.300 I'm like a deist.

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01:49:24.980 Okay.

01:49:26.340 But I think that religion oftentimes shows you the moral systems in which to live that will make your life, generally speaking, better if you follow the system versus not following it.

01:49:33.880 So with the protesters who are checking out of society, smoking pot, playing video games or whatever, the main thing that I would say to them is you are the one who's going to suffer.

01:49:41.520 There have been hundreds of thousands or millions of years of evolution and human beings and all that kind of stuff that led to your creation.

01:49:47.140 As far as we know, we only have this one life guaranteed.

01:49:50.180 And you are wasting your time, you're wasting your energy, you're not finding your wife, you're not having kids, you're perpetuating the society, you're not contributing.

01:49:58.660 And so what's going to happen is that's cute when you're 25 and you're a neat.

01:50:02.120 It's cute to see Nick Fuentes and his little griper army or whatever be neats in their early 20s.

01:50:07.760 It's not cute when you're 50.

01:50:09.180 No one wants to be friends with a 50-year-old who smokes pot and plays video games and doesn't have a family and isn't bought into society.

01:50:15.060 Nobody will want to be your friend.

01:50:16.180 Let me tell you, this is why this country will go communist.

01:50:20.100 Now, I'm going to clarify.

01:50:21.720 There are a lot of variables affecting us right now that may prevent that, but we have two big phenomenons.

01:50:26.180 The neat phenomenon of males and the cat-lady phenomenon of females.

01:50:29.480 Well, then we need to create a dating app where they can find each other.

01:50:32.420 But they don't like each other.

01:50:33.960 They should get over it.

01:50:35.780 They're a political, opposite political end of the spectrum, except on Israel.

01:50:38.580 Except on Israel.

01:50:39.080 Maybe we could make a dating app for people who hate Israel and then you'll bring the left and right together.

01:50:43.060 Left and right, you should horseshoe.

01:50:44.340 Yeah, yeah.

01:50:45.140 But here's my point.

01:50:46.940 There are, overwhelmingly, we are seeing largely liberal women.

01:50:50.620 They don't have families.

01:50:51.460 They're not having kids.

01:50:52.740 They're going to require the state to fund them as they get older, more so than even Social Security recipients today, who actually did have 2.5 kids.

01:51:02.200 With the neat bunch of males, they will be in the same boat.

01:51:07.320 I just watched a movie last night, and it just came out.

01:51:09.940 It's called The Rule of Jenny Penn.

01:51:11.880 Did you guys hear of it?

01:51:12.540 I have not.

01:51:12.980 Jeffrey Rush and John Lithgow are, so there's a judge.

01:51:17.220 He suffers a stroke on the bench.

01:51:17.840 He suffers a stroke on the bench while sentencing a guy, and they put him in rehab recovery, but he's getting worse.

01:51:23.120 The elderly there are harassed by John Lithgow, who just beats and tortures.

01:51:27.560 He's an old man who has fun being and torturing people.

01:51:30.120 I thought this was a comedy.

01:51:30.900 It is a horrifyingly painful movie to watch, but John Lithgow is very funny, even though he's terrifying.

01:51:37.160 All right.

01:51:37.980 The point is, there was a terrifying moment in this film where, as John Lithgow terrorizes his people, Jeffrey Rush asks another man why he won't speak up so they can put a stop to it, and he says,

01:51:50.800 I don't want my children to see me differently.

01:51:53.060 I don't want them to pity me.

01:51:55.360 And outside of the idea of that, the issue is largely, even with children, you are in a home sustained partially by government.

01:52:04.220 What happens to the people who have no children at all?

01:52:07.740 I think we're going to have to put them in communities, and there's going to be abuse.

01:52:10.240 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:52:10.780 I think we're going to need to put them in communities, and there's going to be abuse.

01:52:13.500 So, maybe, but I'll tell you this.

01:52:18.240 The birth rate of Europe right now, I pulled it up while we were talking, is like 1.3.

01:52:21.660 Yeah.

01:52:21.800 No, there's going to be a large homeless, I'm sorry, a large elderly population.

01:52:27.000 Without the people to sustain them, yeah.

01:52:29.160 But what happens when it comes to the electorate?

01:52:31.740 They are going to vote and say, we get your stuff.

01:52:34.400 Yeah.

01:52:34.880 And what are the young people going to say?

01:52:36.740 No.

01:52:37.400 Exactly.

01:52:38.160 And then what happens?

01:52:39.920 This is going to...

01:52:40.780 Societal collapse.

01:52:41.600 In a terrifying way.

01:52:42.880 I don't know if you can remedy that.

01:52:44.240 Without people to fund Social Security, and with young people largely saying they will

01:52:52.300 check out, how do you pay for the larger elderly population?

01:52:56.580 I have an answer.

01:52:57.260 Will you indulge me yet, please?

01:52:58.720 Yeah, that's fine.

01:52:59.440 Okay.

01:52:59.820 I've been waiting for a while, but I've had my fair share of screenings.

01:53:02.280 All right.

01:53:02.700 Cool, cool, cool, cool.

01:53:03.220 So a lot of people hate the concept of 15-minute cities, that it doesn't appeal to their sense

01:53:08.380 of independence.

01:53:09.260 I think that our leaders are totally failing us by thinking about the future of society.

01:53:14.320 And so I think that if we actually designed communities, for instance, a mall, as an example,

01:53:20.820 if you had apartment blocks that were all built around a central commercial area, if you had

01:53:26.040 the agricultural areas and industrial areas on the outside, if you made commuting very simple

01:53:31.980 and easy, you can either walk or you can ride a bike or ride a car to these things, so you

01:53:36.640 become very efficient as a system.

01:53:38.620 And then also, if you make these societies, these micro-communities integrated, where not

01:53:43.240 only are there young families that are raising their family with an intelligently designed

01:53:46.660 community that makes having a family good, but you also have the old people be a part

01:53:51.060 of the community where they have access to the central commercial district, and they

01:53:54.740 also have an area to live that's easy to visit.

01:53:57.360 There will be people who will reject this because they don't want to live in an intentional

01:54:00.320 community that's very close, but I think a lot of people, for instance, the people who

01:54:05.120 have no family, have no friends, no whatever, they can get up, walk to the mall, drink coffee,

01:54:09.540 drink tea, hang out with the younger generation.

01:54:11.060 Where's the money from?

01:54:11.680 Where's the money from?

01:54:12.600 I would say investors.

01:54:13.960 No, no, no, no, the money for the elderly to buy coffee.

01:54:17.220 Probably the social safety net, as we were talking about.

01:54:19.040 But if you need 2.5 to 4 workers in the system to farm-

01:54:23.040 You're not going to like my answer.

01:54:25.160 Tax the youth young more.

01:54:26.680 Well, no.

01:54:27.100 I would say that we, well, I think you're going to have to tax them less because the

01:54:29.780 resources are going to be more efficient.

01:54:31.360 But basically, we would try to get society back up to 2.15, 2.5 birth rates.

01:54:36.480 That's obviously going to fail.

01:54:37.600 And then what we do is we open up immigration.

01:54:39.640 So I would try to get the birth rate back up to 2, and then I would, whatever thing we're

01:54:44.720 missing, I would use immigration to shore up.

01:54:46.500 So the important thing to understand in technological advancement, resources getting cheaper or technology

01:54:51.020 getting better, it's a population growth requirement.

01:54:53.840 So there's two things required for technological advancement.

01:54:56.320 It's a larger population and a more efficient workforce at the same time.

01:54:59.800 Right now, the United States and the world has a massive population which allows for technological

01:55:06.460 expansion, but it's particularly inefficient.

01:55:09.100 If we were to maximize worker specialty for the entire planet, we would probably be 3,000

01:55:15.000 years more advanced technologically.

01:55:16.400 But the issue is ultimately this.

01:55:18.120 There was a time in human history where a human could know everything a human could know.

01:55:21.320 Today, it's impossible in every respect.

01:55:25.520 In fact, I implore all of you watching to look at how they make i9 processors for computers,

01:55:31.400 and you'll get lost so fast.

01:55:33.500 We are quickly approaching a point where, indeed, we are approaching a point where technology,

01:55:38.360 even among the specialists, is exceeding beyond their ability to understand it, such as making

01:55:43.000 a TV requires dozens of different specialties that could not make it on their own.

01:55:48.660 As population begins to rescind, the formula actually, the math actually dictates we will

01:55:54.880 see technological deflation, meaning you will get more expensive TVs, less technological

01:56:01.040 advancement.

01:56:01.820 Things will become more expensive.

01:56:02.980 The good news is that we're in a pretty good standard of living right now.

01:56:08.020 I yield the floor.

01:56:09.420 Okay.

01:56:09.760 All right.

01:56:09.960 Fair enough.

01:56:10.340 Fair enough.

01:56:10.660 I was just like, all right.

01:56:12.140 Yeah.

01:56:12.480 So, listen, I'm not a fan of 15-minute cities that are centrally planned by the state.

01:56:17.860 I think that's a terrible idea.

01:56:19.540 If investors want to-

01:56:20.620 It'd be totally voluntary.

01:56:21.160 Yeah.

01:56:21.480 If investors want to try them out and see what they work like, maybe, because I mean-

01:56:26.220 Like Epic City.

01:56:26.840 Huh?

01:56:27.160 Like Epic City.

01:56:28.380 Which one is that?

01:56:29.480 That one they're talking about in Texas?

01:56:30.680 Oh, my God.

01:56:31.340 The fucking Muslim one?

01:56:32.880 Jesus Christ.

01:56:33.700 Are they allowed to do it?

01:56:34.600 Oh, my God.

01:56:35.340 No, but seriously, if they have food, if they have shelter, if they have community, if they

01:56:40.420 have all that kind of stuff, if it's a successful, vibrant community, what's the problem?

01:56:44.220 Libertarians can rag on the religious fundamentalists that are building their cities, but look at the

01:56:47.760 religious fundamentalists solving this problem.

01:56:49.780 Okay.

01:56:50.240 Again, well, yeah, I don't think I have a lot of problems with Islam.

01:56:55.700 Fuck Islam.

01:56:56.460 I'll just say that.

01:56:57.200 Jeez.

01:56:57.460 And then just move on from it.

01:56:58.660 And then if you're like, well, how could you possibly-

01:57:00.260 Let's go back to policy.

01:57:01.280 Right?

01:57:01.460 If you say, how could you possibly say that?

01:57:03.660 I don't know.

01:57:04.220 Like, Google.

01:57:05.720 Fucking-

01:57:06.420 Anyways.

01:57:06.720 Let's go back to the policies.

01:57:07.680 Yeah, but no.

01:57:08.540 Like, so when you're talking about centrally planning it, no.

01:57:11.200 If you're talking about, like, letting investors do that, that might be something that people

01:57:14.920 agree with.

01:57:15.240 I do think that there's a little bit too much hate towards the concept of 15-minute cities

01:57:19.020 because it's being sold to them with, like, ads from the World Economic Forum, and they

01:57:22.680 know that it's like, fucking eat the pods, right?

01:57:24.920 But Robert Putnam's Bowling Alone, right?

01:57:27.240 That is really kind of the thesis of that book, if you've read it, is the concept that social

01:57:32.460 capital has been destroyed.

01:57:33.960 And one of the major reasons social capital has been destroyed is because people don't

01:57:37.660 work in the neighborhood they live in.

01:57:39.040 They don't shop in the neighborhood that they live in, right?

01:57:41.440 So there's all of this commuting, and so your neighbors are, like, this minor part of your

01:57:46.840 life.

01:57:47.200 I don't know that 15-minute cities actually solve that in any meaningful way.

01:57:51.440 It would be an interesting experiment that I'd like to go through.

01:57:54.500 And, like, if we're talking about solutions-

01:57:56.940 It could be hella private.

01:57:58.060 It could be, right?

01:57:59.340 Like, again, you know, I think we're kind of, like, veering off of the topic a little

01:58:03.780 bit, but that's fine.

01:58:04.740 Maybe we beat it to death a little bit.

01:58:07.060 But, like, I think that there are opportunities to do that.

01:58:10.440 I will simply say this.

01:58:11.800 If you want investment in 15-minute cities, if you want private companies to do that,

01:58:16.260 you're going to have to start deregulating shit, especially housing market.

01:58:19.380 Sure.

01:58:19.980 Like, massive.

01:58:20.560 We've got a few minutes left, and I just wanted-

01:58:22.020 The reason I brought it up, my question is, with population decline, it is predicted by

01:58:27.460 many social security will simply cease to exist at some point.

01:58:29.940 Yeah, probably.

01:58:30.840 So what is- what do we do to keep it, and do you need to even do anything at all?

01:58:36.380 Get the birth rate up to 2.15, and that's not going to happen.

01:58:38.640 Immigration is a store gap.

01:58:39.920 Immigration.

01:58:40.440 As a stopgap.

01:58:41.600 Well, hold on.

01:58:42.440 Can I expand on this?

01:58:43.100 Because it is really important to Groypers.

01:58:44.580 So you go, I'll go afterwards.

01:58:46.920 I'll take a note.

01:58:47.580 All right.

01:58:47.940 So, no, you do need to do something about it, right?

01:58:50.660 Because every day that we don't do something about it, and then we continuously spend money,

01:58:54.280 you know, there are other problems than just that, right?

01:58:57.140 We weaken our currency with inflation, right?

01:58:59.440 And we're going through so much inflation, you know, increase in the money supply and things

01:59:04.100 like that, which is affecting- and it's because of these entitlement spending that we have,

01:59:09.420 right?

01:59:09.780 And the weaker we devalue the dollar, what happens if Saudis stop using the U.S. dollar to trade

01:59:15.140 reserve currency, right?

01:59:16.020 Like, there are a lot of other problems that can occur along the way of, like, population

01:59:20.120 collapse.

01:59:20.740 I can't predict the market or what the market will or won't do, right?

01:59:23.800 But this is a problem now, and it's a problem that's ballooning.

01:59:26.800 And, like, I do agree that, like, it's going to come to some type of clash, but I don't

01:59:31.460 want the streets to burn, you know?

01:59:33.520 I want to answer the question.

01:59:34.480 Yeah, let's hear it.

01:59:35.360 So, you know, I worked with plenty of dissident right-wing folks.

01:59:39.500 I think that they can be descriptively accurate while prescriptively insane.

01:59:43.560 And so, as a result, you're saying, like, well, what do we do?

01:59:46.360 We have a collapsing birth rate.

01:59:47.260 We have an economy that's based on it.

01:59:48.840 So, what I would say is we try to maximize the birth rate as much as possible.

01:59:51.880 I think right now European whites are at 1.5.

01:59:55.400 I think that Hispanics are at, like, 1.8 or 2 point something.

01:59:58.140 It's very close.

01:59:58.840 Anyways, the point is that you would try to get the domestic population from 1.5 to 2, and then

02:00:02.800 you would try to supplement with immigration.

02:00:04.920 I think one of the reasons why we have had a cultural crisis, why we've had mass immigration

02:00:09.900 crises, is because the central governments of Europe and America realized that we had

02:00:14.700 an economic problem.

02:00:15.940 And so, as a result, they allowed these waves of immigration in order to shore up economic

02:00:19.900 problems, but they never consulted the population.

02:00:23.460 They never said, we don't have enough workers and we need them, therefore you have to let these

02:00:28.080 people in.

02:00:28.900 They never said it.

02:00:29.820 But I will also add, it's a first-ordered thought process which fails.

02:00:35.920 So, what we've found, and I'll even cite Ro Khanna, that it didn't work.

02:00:43.160 We thought that bringing these immigrants was going to actually bolster the tax base and

02:00:48.240 the middle class.

02:00:48.720 It did not work.

02:00:49.320 It did the opposite, actually.

02:00:50.460 How so?

02:00:50.740 Lowering the value of labor, it's pretty much it.

02:00:53.840 It's the lowering of value, lowering the value of labor, creating a vast wealth disparity,

02:00:59.740 haves and have-nots, and the people who came in are consuming more than they're producing.

02:01:04.220 So, you're creating-

02:01:05.160 That would be my problem, or that I would object to.

02:01:07.280 Well, it's marginal intensity to consume is overwhelming.

02:01:09.060 It's not actually resulting-

02:01:11.160 So, for instance, one of the simple anecdotes is Gen Z is struggling to get jobs where they

02:01:16.400 can start families and buy homes.

02:01:17.960 Yep.

02:01:18.500 We are giving immigrants luxury housing in New York City in these hotels.

02:01:22.100 Insane, yep.

02:01:23.000 And so that system didn't work.

02:01:25.040 What ends up happening is they bring in as many immigrants as possible.

02:01:27.920 They legalize illegal immigration, essentially.

02:01:31.040 That is, through executive order, actions that would otherwise be illegal were deemed

02:01:35.900 not illegal because we're going to call it asylum instead.

02:01:38.460 But then they-

02:01:39.920 CPB, yeah.

02:01:41.600 What they did was they said, we're going to give you an asylum hearing, a temporary status,

02:01:45.580 but then they got rid of these court cases and just basically said, you're here.

02:01:50.000 These individuals did not integrate properly.

02:01:52.680 You can't just put a person there and say, hope that fixed the tax base.

02:01:55.540 So, it's actually creating a worse problem.

02:01:58.700 Yeah.

02:01:58.780 So, I'll say one more point to this.

02:02:00.500 You mentioned before, I like tariffs.

02:02:02.660 I do like tariffs.

02:02:03.800 Tariffs have to be strategically implemented.

02:02:05.280 Donald Trump's global tariffs, I believe, I'm skeptical on a blanket universal tariff system,

02:02:11.580 but I don't know what his exact plan is.

02:02:13.780 Yeah, exactly.

02:02:14.480 I don't think he knows what his exact plan is, but yes.

02:02:16.620 So, I do think there's people around him who-

02:02:19.400 For sure.

02:02:20.020 I pray.

02:02:21.080 Sure.

02:02:22.000 An argument I saw that was pretty good was, an analogy.

02:02:26.100 You may have been able to bench press 300 when you were 30, but you can't do it when you're 80.

02:02:31.760 And the argument that we, as an older nation that once had this great tariff system and great wealth,

02:02:36.600 could simply just go back to the bench and try and lift it, it's not going to work.

02:02:40.640 You need, as you mentioned before, generational problems.

02:02:43.640 These things have to be resolved slowly over time.

02:02:45.240 The mass importation of migrants in Europe has not resulted in solving the problem.

02:02:51.440 It's created social decay and crises.

02:02:55.400 And so, what we ultimately get with multiculturalism to this rapid system is violence and conflict,

02:03:02.360 fear, anger, political recoil, and instability.

02:03:07.360 So, long story short, social security cannot be remedied through immigration.

02:03:11.000 Okay.

02:03:12.120 The, one of the words that you said that I would desperately cling on to is integration.

02:03:17.200 So, my ethnicity is I'm Irish.

02:03:19.560 Okay.

02:03:19.860 200 years ago, 300 years ago, we were bog-dwelling barbarians who were throwing rocks at British

02:03:26.080 troops, right?

02:03:26.840 Even up until the 1980s, we had very violent ethnic conflicts with the British.

02:03:31.120 However, I think nowadays, American Irish and also Irish Irish are more celebrated for

02:03:37.440 their contributions to culture, their economic contributions, all that kind of stuff.

02:03:39.840 But that was through a process of integration.

02:03:42.240 That was through an, like, intentional educational effort, particularly in the Americas, in order

02:03:47.100 to give the Irish, like, a sense of buy-in into the American project.

02:03:52.580 And so, I joke about this on my own channel, but I talk about the greater United States of

02:03:56.280 the Americas.

02:03:57.240 I literally think that our entire hemisphere should be united in, like, a project.

02:04:02.740 And so, I was talking about, like, you know, fighting and dying for the glory of Rome.

02:04:06.560 I think you need to sell that to recent Hispanic Central American immigrants, and you literally

02:04:10.880 need to say, we are a, we're not a multicultural society.

02:04:14.460 We are an integrative society where these are the values that we hold.

02:04:17.840 These are the things that we care about.

02:04:19.240 You need to learn the language.

02:04:20.360 You need to learn our principles.

02:04:21.580 And then, therefore, you can become a citizen of what we're a part of.

02:04:24.140 That's not, that's a, so why did Afghanistan fail?

02:04:26.500 Because we tried to introduce democracy in a decade.

02:04:29.180 Exactly.

02:04:29.500 So, we, we, we've got, I think, we have, we have cultural parallels with Central America.

02:04:34.720 They're also a European, Christian colonial society.

02:04:38.460 Sure, but you can't change the values of a population in 10 years.

02:04:43.020 And, in some.

02:04:43.860 I would do it over three or four generations.

02:04:45.380 And we don't have that much time.

02:04:46.680 What do you mean?

02:04:47.460 So, the expectation is that in.

02:04:49.300 Are you going somewhere?

02:04:50.260 In 10 years, we.

02:04:51.680 Well, the young people are.

02:04:52.600 Yeah.

02:04:52.900 There's no young people to pay into the system to sustain Social Security as we see it.

02:04:56.580 What will end up happening is they're going to start by dramatically reducing payments

02:05:01.040 to where they will be substantially more inefficient for doing anything for the elderly.

02:05:07.060 So, by 20, 2033, I think, is the estimate where the system breaks.

02:05:11.420 But it can still start paying off.

02:05:13.500 Partial payouts.

02:05:14.440 Partial payouts.

02:05:15.300 And then, I think they say by 2037, it's going to be massively less in terms of the payouts.

02:05:21.460 So much so that with inflation and the payouts, it's going to be inconsequential for the recipients.

02:05:25.300 Yeah, it'll be paying a cell phone bill.

02:05:26.780 You are not going to bring in populations from Central, South America, Africa, etc.,

02:05:32.120 largely from Central America, that will be able to adhere to an American system.

02:05:36.080 The mass importation of a largely low-skilled labor force will not create a functioning system.

02:05:42.560 Okay, the thing that I'm going to push back about on this, though, is we obviously see like a correlate GDP going up, you know, like a 45-degree angle, okay?

02:05:51.160 So, this is like a leftist theory that I don't agree with, but it's like the labor theory of value,

02:05:56.560 which is basically you have to have people who input into the system in order for the system to function at all.

02:06:00.720 So, my thing is, if we have a system, let's say, I don't want to...

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02:06:50.420 Get too descriptive.

02:06:51.380 But basically, if we take 10,000 things from all over the world, we assemble it in the United States,

02:06:55.220 and we sell it for $1,000, and that company is making like a $400 profit on it or whatever,

02:07:00.040 but the inputs where the laborers did something was cents on the dollar,

02:07:04.240 well, then obviously what needs to happen is that the taxes need to come from the final output.

02:07:08.220 So, that's where I would be saying is, if our GDP keeps going,

02:07:11.160 and you say that we can't afford it,

02:07:13.320 then I would say we need to look at the way that we tax things.

02:07:16.020 We do got to go.

02:07:16.980 We've got to raid Jeremy Hambly over at the quartering.

02:07:20.400 However, we'll just do quick final thoughts on this,

02:07:23.640 and I will just say my view is,

02:07:26.320 if we keep going the direction we're going,

02:07:28.260 including, yes, mass migration to try and solve this problem,

02:07:31.140 the inevitable result is going to be communism.

02:07:34.460 And I mean that in a—

02:07:37.000 Not the Star Trek way.

02:07:38.160 Not the—Star Trek wasn't communism.

02:07:39.920 It was post-scarcity liberalism.

02:07:42.460 But what we're going to end up with—I love Star Trek, by the way.

02:07:45.540 We're going to end up with, by force,

02:07:48.880 integration that won't be socially coherent,

02:07:51.880 but people won't have a say.

02:07:53.760 You are going to get young men checked out.

02:07:55.440 You're going to get high crime.

02:07:56.920 You're going to get destabilization.

02:07:58.680 The system may last for a few decades before ultimately imploding.

02:08:02.380 I don't know for sure.

02:08:03.680 But the system as it stands right now is certainly not functioning,

02:08:06.920 which is why we have the mass migration problem.

02:08:09.040 The recoil is then Donald Trump,

02:08:10.960 the gunning of U.S. institutions,

02:08:12.260 the shutting of the border.

02:08:13.680 There's a reason why people voted for it,

02:08:15.200 whether they knew what they were voting for or not.

02:08:16.880 So I will just wrap it up there.

02:08:18.420 And if you want to give one final thought and a shout-out before we go.

02:08:21.200 Yeah, I'll jump straight to a shout-out.

02:08:22.360 Fabian and I fight all the time,

02:08:23.480 so I'm sure we'll be doing it again shortly.

02:08:25.400 My name is Connor.

02:08:26.280 I run two YouTube channels.

02:08:27.540 One of them is Counterpoints 40K.

02:08:28.580 It breaks down the wonderful world of Warhammer 40,000.

02:08:31.140 Another channel that I'm building is Counterpoints.

02:08:33.460 It's more politics-oriented.

02:08:34.920 Counterpoints is a part of the Valor Media Network.

02:08:37.500 It's a bunch of first responders and veterans

02:08:40.160 and all that kind of stuff

02:08:40.920 who think that our society is getting off the rails.

02:08:43.520 We want to offer a different alternative to young men.

02:08:46.000 I'm not just going to tell you to bootstrap out of your problems,

02:08:48.220 but I'm going to try to give you the tools

02:08:49.380 in order to help you get out of your problems.

02:08:51.720 So if you enjoyed anything that I said

02:08:53.920 or if you hated what I said

02:08:55.260 but you want to check us out anyways,

02:08:56.320 type in Valor Media Network into your search bar.

02:09:00.900 You will find a white icon with a microphone on it.

02:09:04.500 That is us.

02:09:05.220 Come over.

02:09:05.880 Spend some time with us.

02:09:07.260 And I am streaming there 35 hours a week,

02:09:09.520 20 to 35 hours a week,

02:09:10.640 so it's a good time to hang out.

02:09:12.580 Yeah.

02:09:12.880 My name is Scott from Fabian Liberty.

02:09:15.100 You can find me on YouTube, Fabian Liberty.

02:09:16.820 I do some reactions, debates,

02:09:19.340 talk a lot about philosophy, politics,

02:09:22.100 things of that nature.

02:09:23.240 I think, you know, just, you know,

02:09:26.000 check me out if you want to see, you know, those things.

02:09:29.400 We have to engage in reality.

02:09:31.600 And the conversations that we're having

02:09:33.640 seem to be a lot of talking points

02:09:35.420 and a lot of those things.

02:09:36.460 And maybe it's not the most,

02:09:37.920 maybe it's not as entertaining as a lot of other stuff,

02:09:40.060 but if you want to, if you want to engage in reality

02:09:41.960 and you want to argue with me

02:09:43.060 and really get into the nitty gritty

02:09:44.600 and philosophy of politics and have a good time,

02:09:46.720 then come check me out.

02:09:47.940 I appreciate you guys.

02:09:49.020 Right on, everybody.

02:09:49.560 We are rating Jeremy Hambly over at The Quartering.

02:09:52.040 So you guys go watch his show on Rumble Live.

02:09:55.040 Thank you all so much for hanging out.

02:09:56.220 We're going to be back tonight at 8 p.m. for Timcast IRL.

02:09:58.460 You can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast,

02:10:00.840 and we will see you all then.

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - April 04, 2025

Has Welfare DESTROYED US Culture & The Family？ w⧸ Fabian Liberty & Conor of CounterPoints

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