The Culture War - Tim Pool - Is DOGE A THREAT To 'Democracy？' Left V Right w⧸ PrimeCayes & Justin Gibbs

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00:00:19.380 Oh, boy, Doge.

00:00:30.800 Did you guys hear a judge is ordering Donald Trump to rehire a bunch of probationary employees saying you can't just mass fire people like this?

00:00:38.180 And, of course, Democrats are in protest.

00:00:40.940 Liberals are upset.

00:00:41.620 They view this as a very bad thing that Elon Musk is going in.

00:00:45.160 And for nefarious reasons, he is gaining access to data and terminating government regulators.

00:00:51.020 However, on the right, it's largely viewed as the first time anyone has actually tried to shrink the size of government.

00:00:57.040 So how about we just debate that whole thing and we'll get right to it.

00:01:00.520 We've got a couple of gentlemen here who want to have that debate.

00:01:03.140 Sir, would you like to introduce yourself first?

00:01:04.920 Oh, hi.

00:01:05.720 My name is Prime Kai, P-R-I-M-E-C-A-Y-E-S.

00:01:09.580 You can find me on Twitch and YouTube and Twitter and all that stuff.

00:01:12.260 Yeah, so I usually do debate streams and I'm on the left and I think Doge is a problem and I'm excited to talk about it.

00:01:21.640 Well, all right.

00:01:22.240 Sir, who are you?

00:01:23.060 My name is Admiral Gibbs.

00:01:24.040 I'm a rancher and business owner in Texas and I do streaming, political streaming.

00:01:28.440 I host the debate championship series and the Give Me Break podcast on Twitch, YouTube, and everywhere else.

00:01:34.720 And you like Doge.

00:01:35.480 I'm a big fan.

00:01:36.340 Huge fan.

00:01:37.200 Huge fan.

00:01:38.440 Well, okay.

00:01:39.560 What's wrong with Doge?

00:01:40.200 I think Doge undermines our democracy.

00:01:44.860 I think that it's an end run around all the systems that we actually already have in place to do exactly what Doge says it's going to do.

00:01:52.820 And that's a way to avoid responsibility on our lawmakers for all the draconic changes that are going to be made.

00:02:01.400 Yeah, I mean Prime here will have you believe that the democracy is threatened by Doge.

00:02:05.440 But the real threat to democracy, in my opinion, is unchecked bureaucracy.

00:02:09.240 It's pretty clear that the Dems have set up a bureaucratic government that is basically just funneling money to all sorts of different places.

00:02:16.460 And I'm a really big fan of those.

00:02:17.660 It seems to be peeling back this little nasty onion and letting us see what's underneath and love it.

00:02:22.420 It's what we voted for and we're getting what we wanted.

00:02:24.220 So, you know, you mentioned that it's undermining the structures that are already in place that should be dealing with it.

00:02:31.320 What do you view those as?

00:02:34.100 Simple, right?

00:02:34.860 We have the Office of Inspector General, right?

00:02:40.180 We have the Government Accountability Office.

00:02:42.000 We have the court system.

00:02:45.260 We have the lawmakers themselves who have oversight.

00:02:47.960 We have oversight committees that do all these things.

00:02:50.380 Do you think they were working, like they were functioning as intended?

00:02:54.260 I think they were functioning, but not to the speed that anyone is happy with.

00:03:01.100 I can say that at least.

00:03:02.880 So, I suppose then it's fair to say it wasn't efficient.

00:03:09.080 The system that was – well, I mean –

00:03:12.420 Yeah.

00:03:12.520 What I'm trying to say is we have this position where you're saying it was working, but it wasn't working well enough.

00:03:20.420 Yeah, but that's any system, right?

00:03:22.400 And like efficiency, if efficiency comes at the cost of democracy, right?

00:03:27.880 If it undermines our ability, our constitution, our system of laws, yeah, that's not acceptable.

00:03:33.800 Like we can improve our processes, right?

00:03:37.100 We can go through.

00:03:38.220 We can improve how responsive Congress is.

00:03:42.780 We can do all these things, but it's hard work.

00:03:44.760 We actually need to do those.

00:03:45.960 Well, this gentleman over here says he voted for it, though.

00:03:47.900 Isn't that democracy?

00:03:50.240 Yeah, I would say so.

00:03:51.340 I mean, when we look at the debt, right?

00:03:53.040 Well, what, $36.22 trillion?

00:03:55.100 The national debt that's held by the public is $28.9 trillion.

00:03:58.800 I just want to see this.

00:04:00.220 It's clear something's gone wrong, right?

00:04:01.820 You know, Kevin O'Leary was recently on a show, and I was watching it.

00:04:05.080 He was just talking about how when you do a business, and I do this in my day-to-day life, you go in there, you evaluate what's working, you trim the hedges, and then you expand, right?

00:04:13.560 You don't just keep expanding in perpetuity.

00:04:16.260 And I think that's what's happened with the government.

00:04:17.780 We've had Democratic leadership for 12 of the last 16 years in the presidency, and they've created this monstrous bureaucracy that definitely needs to have the hedges trimmed.

00:04:27.280 And this is what I voted for, and I'm getting exactly what I wanted.

00:04:29.800 I mean, look at USA being cut, and we find out there's funding, all sorts of random stuff all over the world.

00:04:34.760 We're looking at, you know, things here.

00:04:37.180 They argued about, oh, the DEI programs with FFA.

00:04:39.620 Well, year-to-date, we actually have less plane crashes.

00:04:41.680 I just looked that up earlier today.

00:04:43.260 I mean, we're going through all these different programs.

00:04:45.380 The Department of Education halved, you know, right off the jump.

00:04:48.320 I mean, big fan.

00:04:49.100 All these things are things I wanted.

00:04:50.200 We've actually been going over the airline thing quite a bit, and year-to-date, it's worse.

00:04:55.740 Is it?

00:04:56.460 I mean, I might have the wrong data then, but that's fine.

00:04:58.700 Well, so it is challenging to get the data because if you look at year-over-year data, they'll tell you about general aviation crashes,

00:05:06.640 but that could include, like, a tug hitting a plane on the ground or something.

00:05:12.020 So then when you track for fatal airline crashes, we have, I think, three out of five serious disasters so far this year,

00:05:21.600 and usually you get four to six per year.

00:05:24.580 Okay.

00:05:25.000 So we already have – we're way ahead of schedule of the average so far.

00:05:30.880 I don't know what the reason for that is because I don't think Trump has been in office long enough.

00:05:35.580 I agree.

00:05:36.000 I agree with that.

00:05:36.600 I agree with that.

00:05:37.040 Yeah, right.

00:05:37.460 And so we were talking with the – what was it?

00:05:42.100 Ben Davidson?

00:05:42.720 Is that his name?

00:05:43.040 Am I going to get his name wrong?

00:05:44.280 The space weather guy.

00:05:46.200 And I'm like, you know, everybody wants to say that it's like DEI.

00:05:48.980 The – you've got some people on the left, they're saying, oh, it's because Trump came in with Doge and they're gutting the FAA.

00:05:54.620 People on the right are saying it's diversity, equity, and inclusion.

00:05:57.420 And I'm like, I don't think DEI would happen for years and then instantly in one month cause a bunch of crashes.

00:06:03.840 Right.

00:06:04.460 And I don't think that Trump got into office and then instantly a bunch of crashes happened simply from him being there.

00:06:10.760 So I feel like we've got an anomaly there that's hard to track.

00:06:13.860 Well, to back your point up, I like – you know, we know we've had a shortage for, what, aircraft controllers for, what, two years now, I believe.

00:06:20.560 I mean I, as like a conservative from Texas, Texans, we naturally don't like the government.

00:06:24.600 You know, I was initially hesitant when they said we're going to put Doge in because, hey, what's that slippery slope?

00:06:28.780 It's going to be, you know, another organization wasting my tax dollars.

00:06:31.740 But they've gone in there and they've done a lot of things.

00:06:33.440 And with the FFA, I kind of was – it wasn't my favorite Trump plan so far.

00:06:38.620 You know, I can be critical of Trump.

00:06:39.660 I think maybe we could have probably got a trained monkey to go in there and, you know, watch these things better than nobody.

00:06:44.380 That's better than nothing.

00:06:45.480 I feel like, you know, if we have a shortage, it's better to have somebody than nobody.

00:06:49.280 That's nonsense.

00:06:49.920 You know, you don't agree?

00:06:51.140 I mean you could get the janitor to watch a thing.

00:06:52.760 That's better than nobody watching it, right?

00:06:54.660 It's – I would call it absurd but technically the truth that a trained monkey is better than no one.

00:06:59.520 Yeah.

00:07:00.140 But we don't want a trained monkey.

00:07:01.420 Sure, exactly.

00:07:02.020 No, no.

00:07:02.460 It would be better to not have any signals from a control tower than like random signals.

00:07:07.000 Well, no, trained monkeys.

00:07:07.920 You'd be surprised.

00:07:08.420 They put chimps in spaceships and they know when to trigger the, like, the boosters and whatever.

00:07:12.600 Yeah, if they can go to Sputnik, they can handle that.

00:07:15.440 This is the high-level conversations I came to talk about.

00:07:18.100 All right.

00:07:18.220 They had a dog, right?

00:07:19.420 They had the dog go to space in Russia.

00:07:21.440 Yeah.

00:07:21.660 And the dog was trained when the light turns on.

00:07:23.220 It paused the button and then the things happen.

00:07:25.200 Okay.

00:07:25.680 Fantastic.

00:07:27.160 That's my application for –

00:07:28.460 I'll notify Elon on that one.

00:07:30.380 All right.

00:07:30.880 So ignoring that part, right?

00:07:33.220 But, like, so Doge says that it hasn't actually fired, in terms of the FAA, air safety individuals, right?

00:07:42.080 That's not the case.

00:07:43.160 I think we actually have articles talking about this, like Rolling Stone reporting, that they spoke with an FAA employee who was once among a handful of employees working on an obstacle impact team at the Mike Morini Aeronautical Center in Oklahoma City.

00:07:55.480 The team evaluates many tens of thousands of potential new hazards, such as new buildings, windmills, and especially cranes, to inform flight procedures each year.

00:08:02.860 That's a person who does safety.

00:08:04.900 And, like, another one, a second-term employee whose job was ensuring that pilots are medically able and certified to fly.

00:08:14.080 This person is also cut.

00:08:15.240 And there's many other examples.

00:08:16.400 These are just the ones listed in Rolling Stone.

00:08:18.280 I suppose the challenge, then, is – is this the article that I have pulled up?

00:08:22.220 Is that –

00:08:22.580 FAA – yes, indeed.

00:08:24.100 Yeah, so it's from February 18th.

00:08:26.900 Well, I mean, I kind of feel like we already went over the point of it may be disconcerting to many people, the points you're making.

00:08:34.480 I'll give you that one.

00:08:35.080 But I don't know right now what the immediate effects of that are.

00:08:37.360 Oh, no, I agree.

00:08:38.300 We agree.

00:08:38.880 Like, I don't think that at this moment, like, things have crashed.

00:08:41.980 But things will get more dangerous, right?

00:08:44.720 You fire all these teams, right?

00:08:46.440 The people – and if you dig through the article, they're talking about how they've been gutted, right?

00:08:50.720 There's still maybe a few of them still there, but they're doing the work of – like, five people doing the work of 20.

00:08:55.140 That's not what you want.

00:08:56.500 And before, they weren't, like, fully staffed at first as well.

00:09:00.040 And then, of course, right, we have the reporting from that big meeting between Trump and his cabinet members, right?

00:09:06.520 So – and Elon Musk is there, not part of the cabinet, and Elon Musk gets into it with Treasury Secretary Duffy, right?

00:09:13.940 There's a bunch of reporting talking about this.

00:09:15.980 But Duffy says that the Doge team tried to fire air traffic controllers, right?

00:09:20.520 Elon Musk denies that.

00:09:22.140 And then he asked Duffy to name the individuals who got fired.

00:09:27.680 Duffy's like, well, no one got fired because I stopped it, right?

00:09:30.980 But according to him, assuming this is correct, people were in the meeting or, you know, reporting back on it, assuming that's correct, then, yes, he did try to fire air traffic controllers.

00:09:43.120 I mean, yeah, sure.

00:09:44.040 OK.

00:09:44.340 Like I said, I'm a little bit critical of that as a conservative.

00:09:47.260 I'm not a huge fan of when there's government overreach.

00:09:49.420 I think the FAA was probably the worst thing that Trump's done so far, like how they've handled it.

00:09:52.960 However, overall, when I look at Doge, you know, I think it's a – it's been wildly successful.

00:09:57.980 I mean, just some of these stats here that Doge has been putting out, you know, they put – what was it?

00:10:02.140 11 point – here we go.

00:10:04.460 11 point something million, like, loans went out to children?

00:10:07.780 What's going on with that?

00:10:08.580 Oh, yeah.

00:10:09.120 They didn't check the actual ages?

00:10:11.060 I'm not saying, like, OK, we all know the YouTube kid that, like, you know, reviews toys and, you know, mom and daddy probably have to run his day-to-day.

00:10:17.180 Sure, that's fine.

00:10:18.160 But why are all these loans going out to children?

00:10:19.740 You know, like, these are questions.

00:10:21.080 We look at USA, right, or USAID.

00:10:23.680 They're sitting here.

00:10:24.680 Well, they literally told him to burn docks.

00:10:26.080 I was watching a Marine the other night, and he goes, hey, the only time we burn docks is when the embassies are getting run over by a terrorist organization.

00:10:33.780 Why are we sitting here burning docks?

00:10:34.900 It's pretty clear something nasty is going on.

00:10:37.360 Wait a minute, hold on.

00:10:37.880 The Trump administration is telling them to burn docks, right?

00:10:40.400 Like, just now.

00:10:42.620 Who – OK.

00:10:43.860 USA and head.

00:10:44.900 Yeah, USA and head for the Trump administration now.

00:10:48.040 Yeah, now, because he's a leftover, right?

00:10:51.400 They're burning docks, and Doge is trying to go in there and look at them.

00:10:53.240 They're doing that under the Trump administration.

00:10:55.200 You're saying this is a rogue employee that's burning documents?

00:10:58.420 Yeah, that's why they had to put a court order on it to stop it recently.

00:11:01.380 So you're saying that this individual is not operating under the Trump administration.

00:11:06.420 They're operating, like, in loyalty to the Biden administration and burning documents right this second.

00:11:11.120 Yeah, I mean, you know about – I mean, you can pull it up.

00:11:13.520 They're talking about it all over – it's all over the news.

00:11:15.440 I've heard about this.

00:11:16.320 I've heard about this.

00:11:17.220 They're in the docks.

00:11:17.440 But, like, as far as I know, I mean, this is done under Trump – like, if they – they can send marshals to stop this person.

00:11:23.860 Right, yeah, they have a court order out right now trying to stop them.

00:11:25.640 OK, let them do that.

00:11:26.980 Court asked to intervene after email tells USAID workers to destroy classified documents.

00:11:31.020 Let's see.

00:11:31.280 Let's see.

00:11:33.480 Judge Carl Nichols set a Wednesday morning deadline for the plaintiffs and the government to brief him on the issue.

00:11:37.500 A person familiar said it comes as a Trump administration.

00:11:39.460 Yada, yada, yada.

00:11:40.120 Let's see.

00:11:40.600 Lawsuits are mounting.

00:11:41.480 OK, they don't have the – no, we don't want to donate AP.

00:11:45.080 Thank you for your assistance in clearing out classified USAID headquarters.

00:11:48.320 It begins – I don't think it actually has the name in it.

00:11:50.960 Erica Carr.

00:11:51.660 There you go.

00:11:52.180 Acting Secretary of USAID.

00:11:53.760 Acting Secretary of USAID.

00:11:55.240 A person that's – I mean – well, we can check.

00:11:59.200 I mean, yeah, it's the bureaucracy fighting back against Doge.

00:12:02.060 I mean, are you disagreeing that there's elements of – that have loyalty to other different, like, groups within the thing other than MAGA, like, and Trump?

00:12:08.180 Like, I mean, it's pretty clear, like, that there are different groups that have different interests.

00:12:11.200 Well, I'm looking up who Erica Carr is.

00:12:13.040 Yeah.

00:12:13.300 Let me ask you, though, as it's being pulled up, if you were ordered – if you worked at a government institution, like, through multiple administrations, and Trump came in and said,

00:12:23.920 Prime, I want you to burn the documents, get rid of them all, would you do it?

00:12:27.780 No, I wouldn't.

00:12:28.340 You see?

00:12:28.720 Absolutely.

00:12:29.520 Well, I would say this is an illegal act, right?

00:12:31.860 No matter who installed it, it's an illegal act.

00:12:33.880 But the claim here is that specifically it's being done to cover up, like, the crimes of the Biden administration.

00:12:39.780 I don't believe that.

00:12:41.160 I'm going to actually ask you for evidence that's happening under their auspices, right?

00:12:45.760 No, it is a suspect.

00:12:46.640 It's absolutely a suspect.

00:12:47.620 And they should be arrested or charged with a crime or whatever.

00:12:50.800 She has a Joe Biden hire.

00:12:53.620 Yeah.

00:12:53.940 Erica Carr was appointed by Biden in January of 2021.

00:12:56.960 Is she doing it on Biden's orders or anyone else's orders?

00:13:00.700 Well, we know it's not Biden's orders because they have an open investigation of the autopists.

00:13:04.240 I don't think that has anything to do with what we're talking about.

00:13:06.680 Well, I'm not.

00:13:07.240 But you're implying there's something, like, nefarious going on.

00:13:09.900 One, there is because they shouldn't be bringing the documents in the first place, right?

00:13:12.780 But, like, that this is the deep state fighting back.

00:13:19.960 So, I don't know.

00:13:20.840 That's your words, not mine.

00:13:22.100 Okay.

00:13:22.540 All right.

00:13:22.860 I don't know what the motivation behind this is, right?

00:13:26.200 So, let's investigate that.

00:13:27.880 Sure.

00:13:28.340 I mean, I'm down for it.

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00:13:59.280 Investigation, but isn't that what Doge is supposed to be doing, investigating?

00:14:01.720 That's their whole job, is to investigate ways to the fish.

00:14:04.060 So, let's – honest question.

00:14:07.420 Erica Carr was – previously worked in the Obama administration and was at the Office of Management and Budget.

00:14:13.560 She was appointed by Joe Biden in 2021.

00:14:17.360 She is now the acting secretary, executive secretary of USAID.

00:14:20.700 And she sent an email instructing staff to shred and – I believe the email sent something to prepare for burn.

00:14:28.900 I don't think they're burning in the building.

00:14:31.120 It's like, keep shredding, and when the shredders get tired, like, use the burn bags, right?

00:14:34.940 Exactly.

00:14:35.140 Like, it's, like, extremely egregious.

00:14:36.460 And I'm not the business.

00:14:36.900 Here's the question.

00:14:38.040 Here's the question.

00:14:38.680 Here's the question.

00:14:39.840 Let's just total honest.

00:14:41.660 Okay.

00:14:42.940 What could the possible motivation be for wanting to destroy classified documents?

00:14:47.620 I have no idea.

00:14:48.600 I'm not going to guess at that.

00:14:49.640 Well, I mean, when they're doing it to hide it from Elon coming in and trying to, like, clean stuff up, it's clearly nefarious.

00:14:55.460 But to be fair, there's one potential.

00:14:58.180 I mean, it's all –

00:14:58.640 Is there any above-board normal reason?

00:15:01.860 I'm asking this honestly.

00:15:02.880 It's all nefarious.

00:15:03.740 Again, I agree.

00:15:05.020 Completely nefarious.

00:15:05.840 And I'm not defending that at all.

00:15:07.320 I'm saying that, like – but I'm looking at his claim, right?

00:15:10.800 Like, if you're – it seems like you're – and if you're not doing that, then I take back my words, right?

00:15:14.920 If you're not claiming that this is, like, from the Biden administration, if you're not claiming that they're acting on orders, like –

00:15:22.440 Well, I don't think anybody's acting on orders from that.

00:15:23.400 Previous loyalties, right?

00:15:24.700 Then I take it back because I have no idea what's going on.

00:15:28.220 No one –

00:15:28.600 Well, I don't necessarily think it's on acting orders from the Biden administration.

00:15:31.980 First of all, I have concerns about whether Biden's presidency is even legit after this auto-pin scandal has come out.

00:15:36.700 I mean, we'll have to see.

00:15:38.100 But, like, yeah, you don't know about the auto-pin thing?

00:15:40.400 So, basically, they found a bunch of documents recently that were all signed, and they have, like – when they were signed, we know for a fact he was in a different location.

00:15:48.360 Some of them were the executive orders.

00:15:49.540 Some were pardons.

00:15:50.960 And they were all signed.

00:15:51.960 Auto-pin is an online service where you can store a signature.

00:15:55.800 Okay.

00:15:56.080 And then you click sign, and it will automatically imprint the signature.

00:15:59.880 Yeah.

00:16:00.160 And so now that we know that –

00:16:01.980 Is that illegal?

00:16:02.980 Well –

00:16:03.580 You know what?

00:16:04.480 To be honest, Obama and Trump have both done it, but I think it should be illegal.

00:16:08.140 Okay.

00:16:08.340 The issue, as he pointed out, is there are questions of the location of Biden when some of these documents were signed.

00:16:13.700 And his mental capability.

00:16:15.260 Oh.

00:16:15.460 I mean, that is a broader argument, but I think the – like, the actual legal core you'd actually get in court is, hey, Joe Biden wasn't there at the Oval Office.

00:16:25.520 He was traveling when that document went out.

00:16:27.380 How – did he sign it through email?

00:16:28.820 Like, what's going on?

00:16:29.520 Well, I mean, that's –

00:16:30.740 Well, my bigger –

00:16:31.640 But not to derail, to go back to where we were.

00:16:34.200 Well, yeah.

00:16:34.640 So, yeah.

00:16:35.480 Back to where I was going with that.

00:16:36.500 So, my point is with that, we have Mike Johnson on file saying that he doesn't – Biden doesn't know what's going on.

00:16:39.880 My point with this is I'm not going to sit here and go, oh, it's some sort of deep state, Biden, whatever.

00:16:44.520 What I'm saying is I think that Erica Carr knows they've been doing nefarious things.

00:16:48.380 They know they're doing illegal things.

00:16:49.500 And this is what we call covering our ass.

00:16:51.580 And she's over here burning things because she doesn't want dozed and covering it because they're finding all sorts of fraud all over the place.

00:16:56.480 So, we're going to find a little agreement here, right?

00:16:58.980 And I've discussed this before, right?

00:17:01.640 USAID, like, does have – like, actually do nefarious things.

00:17:04.940 Like, for the intelligence services, it's been used to undermine, like, various foreign countries.

00:17:11.480 It goes in on the auspices of aid, but then it will, like, carry out intelligence operations.

00:17:16.660 We already know this.

00:17:17.340 But that doesn't mean, of course, it wasn't actually doing aid in other areas, right?

00:17:21.620 But they were used as a tool to – well, do whatever.

00:17:25.500 Like, the CIA wanted to do that.

00:17:26.280 Yeah, well, we don't know what they're doing.

00:17:27.260 That's the whole problem.

00:17:27.520 Yeah, yeah.

00:17:27.980 And so if that's what they're burning, again, I condemn it completely.

00:17:31.440 You'll find no defense here.

00:17:33.080 Well, so then you agree with me, Doge.

00:17:34.980 No.

00:17:35.300 Why would I agree with Dirk?

00:17:36.320 Hold on.

00:17:37.080 Did you forget the first half of this conversation?

00:17:39.760 Well, you brought up the inspector general.

00:17:40.840 Yeah, when I talked about the inspector general.

00:17:43.020 Well, hold on.

00:17:43.400 They were doing this because of Congress.

00:17:46.120 It wasn't like the CIA was a rogue agency doing this, right?

00:17:48.960 These are orders, like, by the president.

00:17:50.980 Like, hey, we want to do these operations within whatever country, right?

00:17:54.540 These things were approved.

00:17:55.760 This isn't actually corruption.

00:17:57.680 Which things were approved?

00:17:58.920 I mean, like, the operations from USAID.

00:18:01.320 We have no – there is no – at least to my understanding, there's no evidence that these things were done by the CIA, on the CIA's own behalf, right?

00:18:10.200 Without the president knowing at the time.

00:18:12.420 I do think, though – I think the average person would not conclude that multi-administration or inter-admin agencies like the CIA are acting under the direct orders of the president who is currently in office.

00:18:27.920 With the example being Chuck Schumer saying that the intelligence agencies have six waves from Sunday from getting back to Trump if Trump tries to change what they're doing.

00:18:36.860 The implication, of course, is – I think this is fairly widely accepted in foreign policy.

00:18:42.180 The CIA has long-term operations that span decades.

00:18:45.460 So every time a president comes in, the CIA gives a briefing to the president of current operations.

00:18:50.920 That suggests largely that what the CIA and the other U.S. agencies are doing, they are not at the direction of the current administration.

00:19:01.660 Okay.

00:19:01.960 Well, that current administration can cancel those.

00:19:04.160 Oh, we don't like this operation.

00:19:05.820 Is it going against our current policies?

00:19:08.160 Then we can just – we're just done with that, right?

00:19:09.980 I think Trump was the first president to try to do that, and they impeached him for it.

00:19:13.280 I don't know about that.

00:19:15.740 I'm not going to – I don't know about that claim.

00:19:18.240 So you'll have to show me that it was because that Trump was trying to attack the – and to be clear, I'm not defending the intelligence community, right?

00:19:28.520 Absolutely not.

00:19:29.240 I mean I'm a fucking leftist.

00:19:30.000 Absolutely not.

00:19:30.780 My point is just that like the Ukraine Burisma scandal is a really great example of something untoward is going on, and it was a CIA agent who filed the initial paperwork to trigger the Trump impeachment.

00:19:41.720 And interestingly, YouTube – the man's name was Eric Charamella, and YouTube would delete any video that said his name.

00:19:49.560 Facebook would take down any post that said his name.

00:19:51.520 This is a fact.

00:19:52.340 Twitter was the only platform, I believe, that would allow you to actually say the man's name.

00:19:55.780 That's right.

00:19:56.180 Right, right, and this was rooted in – Joe Biden, of course, engaged in an illegal quid pro quo with the president at the time.

00:20:03.980 I believe it was Poroshenko.

00:20:05.020 He said, if you don't fire the prosecutor, you're not getting the billion dollars.

00:20:08.000 And Donald Trump made a phone call to – at the time, I think it was Zelensky.

00:20:11.360 I'm not sure.

00:20:11.900 No, no, was it?

00:20:12.960 I don't know if it was Zelensky.

00:20:13.980 But he made a call and said, what is this?

00:20:17.740 What happened?

00:20:18.820 I want to know what happened here.

00:20:20.380 A CIA agent then blew the whistle, filing a report.

00:20:23.760 The Vindmans – I believe it was Alex Vindman – then took it up the chain.

00:20:29.040 Congress got a hold of it, and they impeached Donald Trump over this for trying to stop what was a CIA operation.

00:20:34.620 A CIA counterterrorism director was on the board of Burisma.

00:20:37.060 When Trump said, I want to know what Biden was doing here, they impeached him.

00:20:42.400 Yeah, so –

00:20:43.040 Anyway, I digress.

00:20:43.660 My point was simply – sorry.

00:20:46.080 My point was simply, the CIA does not act underneath the president for my entire life until Donald Trump.

00:20:53.260 And only now, actually, and only to a certain degree because he's firing him.

00:20:56.380 I don't know if that's the case, right?

00:20:58.700 And again, I'm not defending the – this is a weird space to be in because I can't really defend intelligence agencies, right?

00:21:04.700 I know they do all kinds of crazy shit.

00:21:07.380 It's – from an outside perspective, like I can't tell, like, at what points in time is the CIA more under control or less under control or the other agencies, right?

00:21:16.680 Well, that's a problem.

00:21:17.940 Well, yes, but that doesn't mean Doge is going to solve it, right?

00:21:21.000 Like, that doesn't mean –

00:21:21.940 You brought up the inspector generals earlier.

00:21:23.220 If they were going to solve it, they've existed.

00:21:25.060 How long is the inspector general's office –

00:21:27.080 Sure.

00:21:27.520 How does this – hold on.

00:21:28.420 How does this solve it?

00:21:29.940 So let's say we're –

00:21:31.000 We open up the books and see what they're doing.

00:21:32.600 Yeah, hold on.

00:21:33.060 That's the whole point.

00:21:33.500 Yeah.

00:21:34.380 We'll open up – first of all, I want an audit.

00:21:37.060 Of all agencies, everything, right?

00:21:39.200 That I want.

00:21:40.300 But – and we were already doing that.

00:21:42.200 We already have processes to all these things.

00:21:43.800 But whatever, right?

00:21:44.640 In any case, so –

00:21:45.760 Those processes aren't working.

00:21:46.720 It's the whole point of Doge.

00:21:48.460 Yeah, then we can fix these processes.

00:21:50.180 This is unconstitutional.

00:21:51.380 We'll get back to that in a second, okay?

00:21:53.480 All right?

00:21:53.800 Hold your horses, buddy.

00:21:54.700 We've got time.

00:21:55.440 Sure.

00:21:55.580 But, yeah.

00:21:58.380 So, like, I don't know, right?

00:22:01.420 Again, from outside his perspective, like, the level of power these agencies have – or

00:22:07.200 sorry, the intelligence agencies have at any point in time.

00:22:09.600 So it's like, this is a weird space to, like, try to be defending them.

00:22:11.920 So, like, I don't know.

00:22:12.500 Let's kind of move past it.

00:22:13.700 Because we –

00:22:14.140 No, I agree.

00:22:14.560 I agree.

00:22:14.860 My point was not to ignite a whole thing on the CIA.

00:22:17.240 It was just to basically point out – I'll keep it flat.

00:22:20.600 The FBI, the CIA, the NSA, and all other, what, 14?

00:22:25.080 They exist with the same leadership through multiple administrations.

00:22:29.820 And that de facto means they're – like, if they're going to launch an operation, it

00:22:35.180 will start before Obama and extend after Obama.

00:22:38.040 And you want continuity of operations, right?

00:22:40.220 You don't want them to be – so, like, it's a tough balance there, right?

00:22:43.100 Like, at some point, like, you want them to, like, complete a mission once it's

00:22:47.240 started, but also we want to adjust with the changing times, with the priorities,

00:22:51.760 with the will of the people.

00:22:53.060 So who knows, right?

00:22:55.040 I mean – so – but, okay.

00:22:56.340 Well, moving on, I guess, to, I guess, a related thing with this.

00:23:00.120 If you had told me five years ago that someone was going to set up an organization

00:23:04.080 to cut government bloat and government waste, I would have been – one, I would have

00:23:07.700 been hesitant because, you know, like I said, I'm a Texan.

00:23:09.480 I don't trust big government.

00:23:10.440 I don't want more, you know, organizations, more, you know, agencies.

00:23:14.020 However, you know, Doge has come in and they've immediately done what they said

00:23:16.740 they were going to do.

00:23:17.480 If you had told me five years ago that, hey, there's bloat, there's these things,

00:23:21.780 I don't think anybody, left or right, would have disagreed.

00:23:24.300 But now that Doge is actually uncovering the bloat and going through these things,

00:23:28.260 it's like up in arms because my pork belly project has been canceled.

00:23:31.920 No.

00:23:32.180 And it's not helping anybody.

00:23:33.160 No.

00:23:33.320 That's what it seems like.

00:23:34.040 Doge is not actually uncovering the bloat.

00:23:36.000 But, I mean, so there is a level of waste within any organization, no matter what,

00:23:40.000 whether this organization, whether – you mean anything, private?

00:23:43.140 Not here.

00:23:44.320 None.

00:23:44.820 Okay.

00:23:45.180 All right.

00:23:47.180 Maybe this guy's job.

00:23:48.320 Maybe that's bloat.

00:23:48.820 I'm sorry.

00:23:49.280 I'm just kidding.

00:23:49.740 Oh.

00:23:50.160 I'm kidding.

00:23:50.720 Choice words for Kellan.

00:23:51.500 I'm kidding.

00:23:51.900 But, no, there's always a level of waste within any organization, right?

00:23:58.740 But is what Doge is doing, right?

00:24:03.280 Like, are they reporting things correctly?

00:24:06.200 Are we – are they understanding how these contracts work?

00:24:09.940 I think again and again we're seeing they actually don't, right?

00:24:12.480 So there's plenty of reports of the errors that Doge has had, reports of, like, them overestimating contracts, of them saying that they saved on a contract that was actually canceled under Joe Biden.

00:24:29.400 There's been a whole list of errors.

00:24:31.500 And then we have people just fact-checking, fact-checking these contracts.

00:24:34.920 And they're shown that, yes, there's an inflated amount of savings that Doge is reporting.

00:24:40.800 Yeah, I mean, to be fair to that, though, all right?

00:24:43.860 So anytime you have a new organization come in and they go look at things, right?

00:24:46.600 So, like, there's the story with Elon Musk and Twitter, right, where they had this server farm and they go in there and they're like, we can pull this out on Christmas.

00:24:52.620 And him and two other guys go in there and pull it up and whatever.

00:24:54.980 And everybody's like, oh, look how bad Twitter's doing.

00:24:56.920 Well, you know, like I mentioned Kevin O'Leary earlier.

00:24:59.280 He mentions that, oh, okay, Twitter is back to, like, 60%, 70% of the stock price of what it was originally before Elon bought it after that.

00:25:07.240 That's as of yesterday, right?

00:25:08.640 It was at $54 yesterday when it was closed.

00:25:12.160 And so he's added new features.

00:25:14.760 You know, the site was running smoothly after a few hiccups.

00:25:17.760 So when I look at Doge, this is the exact same concept.

00:25:20.140 You're going to go in, you are going to have mistakes because you are clearing things out.

00:25:23.640 But then what they do is they will have the mistake and then they correct them.

00:25:27.420 And y'all are saying they've actively had to be called out.

00:25:30.340 They have to be called out and embarrassed.

00:25:31.800 Oh, no, no.

00:25:33.420 Go on.

00:25:34.120 All right.

00:25:34.420 So, for instance, the agency once claimed to have canceled contracts ended under President George W. Bush.

00:25:40.000 The agency also wrongly reported canceled an $8 billion contract when it was only worth $8 million.

00:25:46.080 Right?

00:25:46.380 This is not – I mean, I have more examples.

00:25:48.260 This is not an isolated instance with this agency.

00:25:51.400 But the thing is, though, what people like you will do is that they'll talk about, like, the Doge number, right?

00:25:56.940 And what many news agencies report, they'll put the Doge number.

00:26:00.460 So that's like $115 billion, I think, by now.

00:26:04.180 And you can take a look at the Doge wall of receipts, right?

00:26:07.320 They got a website.

00:26:08.800 Oh, it's the debt clock.

00:26:10.680 But you can take a look at the Doge wall of receipts.

00:26:13.960 They do have a website.

00:26:17.480 Yeah, $115 billion.

00:26:18.900 That is not a believable number.

00:26:20.520 It's not, right?

00:26:22.340 Why?

00:26:23.480 Because of all the errors that I'm talking about.

00:26:26.140 So these are what they're reporting.

00:26:28.640 But there's no – at this point, there's no reason to believe that.

00:26:31.920 Now, there's others –

00:26:32.740 You're saying that the Department of Government Efficiency is not efficient at all?

00:26:36.080 Indeed.

00:26:36.800 Indeed, I'd say that, right?

00:26:38.080 Now, there's another website, all right, that you can also take a look called Doge Tracker Muskwatch.

00:26:44.040 I can get you the URL if you need it.

00:26:47.460 I think it –

00:26:48.620 Doge.muskwatch.com.

00:26:50.280 Indeed.

00:26:51.520 Muskwatch.

00:26:52.360 Yeah, take a look, right?

00:26:53.740 Got to watch out for President Musk, you know?

00:26:55.280 Yeah.

00:26:55.960 So this takes a look and it looks at what's actually verified, like verified savings here, right?

00:27:02.840 And it compares that to grants.

00:27:04.280 Sometimes grants can't be verified.

00:27:05.700 But this is actually doing the comparison.

00:27:09.620 You can go down to, like, let's say, like, the first USAID one, right?

00:27:13.640 Like, yeah, right?

00:27:14.980 That large bar, like, in the lower half.

00:27:16.980 Yeah, right?

00:27:17.900 Look at – yeah.

00:27:18.300 Put the cursor back on the bar, right?

00:27:20.660 And there you go, right?

00:27:21.340 Oh, I like that.

00:27:22.060 Yeah.

00:27:22.360 So it says what –

00:27:23.440 $44 million.

00:27:25.140 Yeah.

00:27:25.600 The actual – the overestimated savings, right?

00:27:28.700 So it shows the – what Doge says it's saved and then what's actually saved.

00:27:33.960 Now, this is an interesting website that I actually just discovered.

00:27:36.520 Hold on.

00:27:36.900 Let's look at this website real quick.

00:27:38.140 All right.

00:27:38.340 Let's do that.

00:27:38.760 So, like, so the last one.

00:27:39.920 You go back to the last website if you don't mind real quick.

00:27:42.260 All right.

00:27:42.700 So this says $115, $714.

00:27:46.120 I want to talk – you're missing the mic.

00:27:47.700 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:27:48.100 Sorry.

00:27:48.360 Yeah.

00:27:48.560 All right.

00:27:48.820 So can you hear me now?

00:27:50.340 Yeah, okay.

00:27:50.780 So it says $115 billion saved, $714.29 per taxpayer.

00:27:54.760 Let's go to this other site here.

00:27:56.220 Back to the one that we were just on if you don't mind.

00:27:58.260 All right.

00:27:58.580 So on this one, what's crazy to me is when we look at these things, right?

00:28:02.360 We have at the bottom you had the what?

00:28:04.280 The $254 million that was, like, not verified is what he just said.

00:28:08.160 I guess what you had pulled up.

00:28:09.300 And we have verified cancel 8.6 and 29.9.

00:28:11.900 What's interesting to me is when Dems talk about taxing people, right?

00:28:15.960 They're like, oh, we got to tax the billionaires.

00:28:17.760 These are the ones we got.

00:28:18.740 This is terrible.

00:28:19.460 But when Doge makes these kind of cuts that actually save taxpayers hundreds of dollars every year,

00:28:24.860 now we sit here and scream, reee!

00:28:26.680 Okay.

00:28:26.860 But it doesn't actually do it.

00:28:27.920 What do you mean it doesn't?

00:28:28.840 So I'm going to ignore it.

00:28:30.340 You don't know what you're saying, right?

00:28:32.980 If you're doing canceled funding, it's taxpayer dollars being saved.

00:28:36.140 Is that correct?

00:28:36.700 Yes or no?

00:28:37.480 I'm sorry.

00:28:37.720 I'll repeat that, please.

00:28:38.780 So if this is – your website is correct, right?

00:28:41.420 These are the cuts you admit they've done.

00:28:43.280 Yeah.

00:28:43.800 All right.

00:28:44.660 That means that's money that's been saved by the taxpayer that can be spent more officially.

00:28:49.520 Correct?

00:28:49.660 Hold on.

00:28:50.260 It depends, right?

00:28:51.700 Like, were those things things that should have been canceled?

00:28:55.100 Right?

00:28:55.300 We haven't actually established that.

00:28:56.580 We're just assuming that Doge knows what should and shouldn't be canceled.

00:29:00.420 Now, there could be things that you and I agree with, right?

00:29:02.240 I'm sure we can find common ground on contracts that haven't been canceled.

00:29:05.500 Even if they don't – they're not something that should be canceled.

00:29:07.960 It would still, in theory, save us money.

00:29:09.400 Correct?

00:29:10.320 And I don't care about just saving us money, right?

00:29:13.480 I'm not a conservative.

00:29:14.860 It doesn't matter to me that we simply save money.

00:29:17.360 I want to use that money for, like, important purposes to actually run the government.

00:29:21.780 Sorry.

00:29:21.820 I just want to make sure this is clear.

00:29:22.940 It's not necessarily a correction, but when we highlighted USAID cuts showing $244 million,

00:29:27.840 that's actually just one component.

00:29:30.300 That's –

00:29:30.900 One component.

00:29:31.460 Yeah.

00:29:31.640 That's an O&M.

00:29:33.420 Right.

00:29:33.660 So I just want to make sure everyone understands.

00:29:35.420 There's actually a bigger list of all the different USAID cuts.

00:29:39.600 Here's another for $70 million.

00:29:42.100 Here's another for $12 million.

00:29:44.320 And – oh, I'm sorry.

00:29:45.000 It's – overstated savings.

00:29:48.680 Oh, okay.

00:29:49.060 So they're saying terminated funding is $351 million, not – wait, what?

00:29:55.040 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:29:55.580 I'm sorry.

00:29:55.820 Okay.

00:29:56.260 Let me clarify.

00:29:58.080 Doge is claiming $595 million.

00:30:00.680 They can verify $351 million was terminated.

00:30:03.340 The overestimate was $244 million.

00:30:05.500 So I read that wrong.

00:30:06.600 So the first number on this must tracker says, for USAID, O&M follow-on contract was $350 million saved.

00:30:15.000 Just for example, there are a bunch of other USAID contract cuts.

00:30:18.500 This one, for instance, is $12 million.

00:30:20.400 Another was $70 million.

00:30:21.600 And another was $9.8 million.

00:30:23.640 This is pulling from government databases, right?

00:30:26.200 So if you – so there's – so there's the Doge website, the wall of receipts, right?

00:30:31.580 And on that website, for each of these council contracts, it sends you to what's called the Federal Procurement Data System, right?

00:30:37.320 The FPDS.

00:30:38.140 If you click on one of those, right, you'll have no idea what you're looking at.

00:30:42.920 It's not something designed for, like, regular, like, individuals.

00:30:47.700 Like, click on the savings part or something.

00:30:49.760 I don't know.

00:30:50.320 Which one?

00:30:50.920 Well, why does it matter if it's not designed for regular individuals?

00:30:53.600 Well, no.

00:30:54.000 Does somebody understand it?

00:30:54.760 No, no.

00:30:55.300 No, it actually does matter.

00:30:56.600 No, because the point is people are saying that this has been the epitome of transparency.

00:31:02.520 But actually, if, like, regular individuals can just look at this and think, I guess this is savings.

00:31:06.740 I guess this works out, right?

00:31:07.880 But they actually can't tell.

00:31:11.380 Have you met the average person, though?

00:31:13.300 Yeah.

00:31:13.520 They can't tie their shoes.

00:31:15.400 I mean, what does that even say?

00:31:16.320 But real quick, additionally, we should point out that verified canceled funding and Doge claimed funding, neither are falsifiable.

00:31:28.420 Doge tracker is saying, here's what we looked at what Elon said.

00:31:32.100 We know this was canceled.

00:31:33.480 That doesn't mean Elon is wrong, lying, or the numbers are not correct.

00:31:37.100 Okay.

00:31:37.380 Amen.

00:31:37.680 Well, you'll see what I'm saying.

00:31:38.960 So click on that, the USAID contract you were looking at before, right?

00:31:42.620 Click on the bar.

00:31:43.240 First off?

00:31:43.760 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:44.400 And click it.

00:31:45.020 Click the link.

00:31:45.580 So you see the FBDS, right?

00:31:46.900 There's that.

00:31:48.040 That's what you'll find on Doge, right?

00:31:50.460 You'll take a look at this.

00:31:51.600 This is, like, fucking inscrutable.

00:31:54.140 But also, there's the USA spending website.

00:31:57.840 So if you look at that, right, if you go back to the other one, right?

00:32:01.680 Oh, wait.

00:32:02.160 Hold on.

00:32:02.980 Take a look.

00:32:03.500 So this is what the Doge tracker actually linked.

00:32:07.280 Yeah.

00:32:07.840 It says that the Doge estimated savings is $595 million, but that's actually only $351 million,

00:32:15.560 and it's claiming $244 is overstated.

00:32:17.860 But when you actually click the link they provide, it says the base and all options value is $596 million.

00:32:24.720 Oh, exactly.

00:32:25.920 Yeah.

00:32:26.140 So if we go to the USA spending, the other link there, all right?

00:32:30.400 Click for links.

00:32:33.620 I did.

00:32:33.980 I mean, just while you're all doing this.

00:32:35.120 Yeah, there you go.

00:32:35.920 Do you agree that $351 million is a lot of money?

00:32:38.360 No, no, no.

00:32:38.760 This is an important one.

00:32:39.840 Yeah, this is a much more readable version.

00:32:41.260 So exactly what you were talking about before.

00:32:43.180 There's the other options, right?

00:32:44.740 Those options aren't exercise options.

00:32:46.940 So there's...

00:32:47.620 That's his potential award amount.

00:32:48.700 Yeah.

00:32:49.040 That's what's actually been...

00:32:50.580 Because you have to actually learn to read this.

00:32:52.300 I spent the time to actually learn to read this thing, right?

00:32:54.580 So the current award amount, that's the amount that's already been spent.

00:32:58.840 Yeah, right.

00:32:59.540 Yeah.

00:32:59.880 The $556 million, that's options.

00:33:02.960 What they were going to get.

00:33:04.120 If they exercise those options...

00:33:05.600 And they were going to...

00:33:06.260 Were they?

00:33:07.260 Do you know that?

00:33:08.460 So you can have an extension.

00:33:09.860 So you can sign a contract.

00:33:10.660 Wait, wait.

00:33:11.060 Hold on.

00:33:11.560 Come on.

00:33:11.840 You can sign a contract, right?

00:33:13.920 And then you can say, hey, I'm going to extend that contract.

00:33:16.080 I have the options, right?

00:33:17.080 To extend that option multiple times.

00:33:18.720 And I'll get additional money for that.

00:33:20.180 But if you don't extend those options, right, because they might not need the money.

00:33:24.980 Are you joking?

00:33:25.940 I got to be honest.

00:33:27.540 I kind of feel like you tried pulling a fast one.

00:33:29.060 I didn't try pulling a fast one.

00:33:30.580 Hold on.

00:33:30.680 I'm literally walking you through the website.

00:33:32.320 I'm not pulling a fast one.

00:33:32.700 They have an option to pull out.

00:33:34.600 I do understand what you're saying.

00:33:37.300 But the idea that an organization that has offered up an additional $250 million would

00:33:43.040 be like, you know what?

00:33:43.720 We decided we don't want it.

00:33:44.720 We're not going to take it.

00:33:45.640 Never happened in history.

00:33:46.360 Yeah.

00:33:46.560 Never happened in history.

00:33:47.240 That absolutely happens all the time.

00:33:49.060 What?

00:33:49.320 You do know that they sell $500 hammers to the Pentagon.

00:33:53.440 This was a big scandal.

00:33:54.600 Yeah.

00:33:54.660 $13,000.

00:33:55.620 I don't believe.

00:33:56.680 I am perfectly aware of that.

00:33:58.060 I'm aware the Pentagon doesn't pass audits, right?

00:34:01.200 I'm aware that we...

00:34:02.440 The Marines do.

00:34:03.020 Is that the Marines do?

00:34:03.740 Yeah, the Marines pass the audit.

00:34:05.040 That's crazy.

00:34:06.320 Yeah.

00:34:06.620 I am aware that the Pentagon gets overcharged all the time, right?

00:34:11.840 And other agencies actually get examined and run in a different manner, right?

00:34:18.380 The Social Security Administration doesn't have the same amount of waste and bloat as the

00:34:23.680 Pentagon.

00:34:23.940 We can understand these things that are treated differently.

00:34:25.800 The whole Social Security is bloat, but go ahead.

00:34:27.100 It's not all bloat.

00:34:28.000 I mean, obviously.

00:34:28.740 This is important.

00:34:30.380 This is a useful...

00:34:32.640 Hold on.

00:34:33.100 You realize...

00:34:33.860 I can't let this one go.

00:34:35.000 Just, you know, with the Social Security, if I invested my tax dollars that I spent that

00:34:39.660 would go towards Social Security, the same amount exactly in the S&P fund or a mutual

00:34:44.440 fund, my return would be drastically higher.

00:34:47.500 You understand that, right?

00:34:48.720 Than, like, what you're getting...

00:34:50.060 So, basically, Social Security is boning the American out of their money.

00:34:54.500 You're like...

00:34:55.400 People don't save that way.

00:34:56.420 We have to actually design a system for people.

00:34:58.480 People...

00:34:58.940 Like, I wish people...

00:35:00.400 Wait, why is that our problem?

00:35:02.240 Why is that a problem?

00:35:03.400 Because I care about a fellow man and woman.

00:35:05.420 That's why I talk about it.

00:35:05.920 So do I, but this is the difference between, I guess, you and me on this, right?

00:35:09.220 We voted for Doge to come in and clear this stuff out, right?

00:35:11.620 We see these things as wasteful.

00:35:13.320 We see these times...

00:35:14.320 Like, I can't tell you how many times I know people that are working three jobs that are

00:35:18.000 going, why am I getting taxed so much?

00:35:19.780 And it's going to pay people that are just, you know, living off the teat of society.

00:35:24.040 And Doge is part of the answer to that.

00:35:25.840 They're going in and clearing stuff out.

00:35:27.040 And even by your numbers, right?

00:35:28.720 Let's just take your numbers at the $351 million mark.

00:35:31.900 That's a ton of money.

00:35:33.300 Well, hold on.

00:35:34.220 This is interesting.

00:35:36.840 I'm trying to figure out what these phrases actually mean.

00:35:40.680 There's a glossary that you can check out, right?

00:35:42.900 So, okay, we'll do that.

00:35:44.720 But just let me ask your perspective on this.

00:35:46.980 Current award amount, that means they did give $352 to this organization.

00:35:51.840 Wouldn't that then mean that there is still yet to be paid $250 million?

00:35:55.720 Not only if they exercised those...

00:35:59.320 We don't know the terms of the contract.

00:36:00.740 So you can't make that assumption.

00:36:02.520 Yeah, and they can't make the assumption either.

00:36:04.060 If they say, currently we have given $350 million to them, the argument would be, we didn't

00:36:10.120 actually save $350 million.

00:36:11.800 It's inverted.

00:36:12.780 The Musk tracker has it backwards.

00:36:15.260 Elon Musk saved us $250 million because they've already given $350 million to this organization.

00:36:21.500 But I'm saying those options haven't been exercised.

00:36:24.840 That's the savings.

00:36:26.020 So here's the issue.

00:36:27.560 Right, so let's put it this way.

00:36:29.400 If an organization...

00:36:30.340 Let's just round these numbers up so we can get it simple.

00:36:31.940 We'll make it simple.

00:36:34.240 USAID...

00:36:35.160 Screw it.

00:36:36.140 Let's just say, government organization gives $600 million contract to be paid out.

00:36:41.780 Elon Musk says, terminate that contract.

00:36:44.540 They say, okay, we've already given them $350 million.

00:36:48.140 You can't save money that's already given away.

00:36:52.100 However, the remaining $250 million that has yet to be dispersed when the contract is canceled,

00:36:57.140 that $250 million stays in the account.

00:36:59.240 If that is correct, it appears that the number is overstated because Elon is including in the

00:37:06.420 savings money they already gave away.

00:37:09.040 Yeah.

00:37:09.180 My point is this.

00:37:10.400 The Doge tracker has the number backwards.

00:37:13.120 When it says terminated funding $351 million and the overstated savings is $244 million,

00:37:17.540 that's incorrect.

00:37:19.180 It's...

00:37:19.540 Oh, I see what you're saying.

00:37:20.700 I see what you're saying.

00:37:21.960 Right.

00:37:22.240 So the actual savings is the money we did not give.

00:37:24.960 I see what you're saying.

00:37:25.460 The money we already gave is gone.

00:37:26.560 Yeah, yeah.

00:37:26.880 Fair enough.

00:37:27.180 Fair enough.

00:37:27.420 No.

00:37:27.660 I got you.

00:37:28.480 I got you.

00:37:28.780 If that's what it means, otherwise I'm trying to understand like...

00:37:31.460 I see what you're saying.

00:37:31.960 What are they saying here?

00:37:32.840 Yeah.

00:37:33.260 Unless it...

00:37:34.420 Fair enough.

00:37:34.600 Fair enough.

00:37:34.980 Unless it means the current award amount is the government saying, we will over the

00:37:39.280 next 10 years give you $352 million and then potentially we could give you more if that's

00:37:43.940 what it means.

00:37:44.580 Yeah.

00:37:45.540 So here's what it says.

00:37:46.940 I looked it up.

00:37:48.300 The current award...

00:37:49.380 Yeah, yeah.

00:37:49.760 Okay.

00:37:50.100 So your website does have it backwards.

00:37:51.880 It's actually worse.

00:37:52.900 This is a point for you.

00:37:54.160 You should do this.

00:37:55.900 The current award represents the amount that has already been awarded to a recipient.

00:38:01.220 It includes obligated funds, meaning the government has committed to paying this amount under

00:38:05.220 an existing contract or grant.

00:38:06.280 Okay.

00:38:06.640 Okay.

00:38:06.900 So it doesn't mean they already gave it.

00:38:09.220 Potential award represents the maximal possible funding that could be awarded over the life

00:38:12.840 of the contract or grant.

00:38:13.940 It includes both the current award amount and any future options, modifications, or extensions

00:38:17.920 that may be exercised.

00:38:19.460 So they did not give the $350 million.

00:38:22.780 The problem then becomes, how much did they give?

00:38:26.080 Did they give $921,000?

00:38:27.740 Obligated is what they paid.

00:38:29.960 Okay.

00:38:30.200 Yeah.

00:38:30.540 Yeah.

00:38:30.960 So then I think this is arguing semantics.

00:38:36.180 Elon's going to cite the higher number.

00:38:37.900 I have a specific example.

00:38:39.080 Hold on.

00:38:39.640 Hold on.

00:38:39.680 Hold on.

00:38:39.720 Hold on.

00:38:39.940 Hold on.

00:38:40.020 Hold on.

00:38:40.140 Hold on.

00:38:40.260 Just a clear.

00:38:40.880 Obligated is what's promised and then outlay, I think, is actually what's been paid.

00:38:46.980 Hopefully I can get that back.

00:38:47.900 I'm just learning this literally last night.

00:38:50.080 But you look through the glossary and it'll tell you which one's which.

00:38:53.160 I don't want to get false information, but go ahead.

00:38:55.320 So, yeah.

00:38:55.700 I brought this up with you the other day.

00:38:58.440 In San Antonio, we're having exactly the situation you just described, Mr. Poole, was the – in San Antonio, they just shut down a migrant facility, right?

00:39:07.820 It was an overflow facility that's been used twice for like three months total, I think, whatever.

00:39:13.040 And it was costing us $15 million a year, and they canceled the contract, right?

00:39:17.720 So it's potential loss or whatever.

00:39:19.060 It was $15 million a year.

00:39:19.980 I think it's 200 – so it equals that $215 million total a year or something around that.

00:39:25.960 And then it equals about $1.1 billion since 2001.

00:39:29.320 And there's nonprofits posting record profits and all sorts of crazy stuff.

00:39:33.180 And so it's gotten bipartisan support locally because it's barely been used and whatnot.

00:39:37.340 And so basically they canceled the contract.

00:39:39.420 And, you know, I guess that's potential savings.

00:39:41.040 It fits exactly the criteria you're describing in this kind of case is when they're going in there, cleaning out bloat.

00:39:46.300 Like this facility isn't being used.

00:39:48.160 Why would we keep funding it?

00:39:49.560 So when Tim's ready, hopefully – sorry, go ahead.

00:39:54.600 I think our original assessment of what this was was correct.

00:39:57.720 They have not yet – okay, so awarded means we signed a deal.

00:40:02.580 So, you know, you say to me, if you give me a million dollars, I will write a beautiful poem for you.

00:40:10.860 And then I say, okay, but I want more than one.

00:40:15.120 And you say, then we'll do this.

00:40:16.340 After the first year, we'll include an option for me to make another poem for you for another million.

00:40:22.300 And then another year, we'll do this again.

00:40:24.300 The question is who has the option rights is the important thing.

00:40:28.560 If the recipient of the funds says we want the option, that means that money is basically committed.

00:40:37.200 If the U.S. government says we want the option, which tends to be more likely in most contract deals, the person paying will say we want to retain the option to re-up or cancel as opposed to the person doing the work.

00:40:48.520 So it would seem that – the thing about this is obviously Elon is going to stress we saved all of the potential money.

00:40:58.700 But if it was an option held by the government, then I suppose it's semantics.

00:41:04.480 It really is semantics.

00:41:05.200 I don't know that it is semantics though, right?

00:41:06.660 So like I just brought up that facility, right?

00:41:08.080 So that's $215 million a year, right?

00:41:09.820 It's been used, what, like six months since 2001 or 2021, right?

00:41:14.340 It's – since 2021, that's a billion dollars, right?

00:41:16.840 Okay, if you've – let's just take six months out of that or like eight months.

00:41:20.420 I don't care.

00:41:20.800 We need to take a year out.

00:41:21.480 Tim, if you can pull up Endeavor San Antonio, that's what we're talking about.

00:41:24.520 Yeah, so that's like – let's just say they take out a full year.

00:41:26.700 What specifically about it?

00:41:27.760 So, okay, it's basically they're spending $15 million a month to keep a cold facility open.

00:41:32.820 And they're saying that's what it costs to open this, like bring it back at any given time.

00:41:37.240 We have to have $15 million a month, whatever.

00:41:38.880 So they shut it down.

00:41:39.940 So that's $215 million a year.

00:41:41.160 Let's just say they had it open.

00:41:42.320 They used it for a full year, which they didn't.

00:41:44.020 But let's just say for –

00:41:44.740 Oh, you're talking about the facility that's $18 million per month.

00:41:46.900 Yeah, $18 million a month.

00:41:47.620 That one, yes.

00:41:48.040 I'm sorry.

00:41:48.620 I thought $15 should be $18.

00:41:49.820 This one, exactly.

00:41:50.600 This one.

00:41:50.780 Right.

00:41:51.020 It was reportedly shut down because of inhumane conditions or something to that effect.

00:41:54.580 No, because it wasn't being used.

00:41:55.860 No, it was shut down because it wasn't being used.

00:41:57.820 There were numerous – the reason it wasn't being used was because – I don't know.

00:42:02.020 This is what – I'll look it up, but apparently –

00:42:03.960 I haven't heard anything about that.

00:42:05.440 I'm local, but I will say –

00:42:06.620 The conditions were considered to be subpar.

00:42:08.620 Well, that makes it even worse.

00:42:09.940 But without even factoring that in, right?

00:42:11.840 Let's just say for – it wasn't subpar, and let's just say it was used as it was supposed

00:42:15.640 to be for one year, right?

00:42:17.100 Full year, $215 million.

00:42:18.360 That's like $215 million per year, right?

00:42:20.580 That's a lot of money to the average taxpayer.

00:42:22.680 And when you save that over a – that's a billion dollars in three years.

00:42:26.620 You act like a billion dollars in three years.

00:42:28.300 Hold on, one closing isn't a massive amount.

00:42:30.900 No, no.

00:42:31.340 We can't judge these in the sense of individuals' pocketbook.

00:42:36.680 Yes, all this –

00:42:37.440 Absolutely we can't.

00:42:38.020 No, we actually can't because in all the numbers when we're talking about government

00:42:41.620 are massive.

00:42:42.760 To fund anything, it's a massive amount, right?

00:42:45.340 So that in itself doesn't tell us whether something is worth spending on or not, right?

00:42:49.760 Whether you should cut it or not, right?

00:42:51.820 We actually have to judge these on the utility that's being processed.

00:42:54.480 Sure, and this is a prime example of waste.

00:42:56.320 So I don't know.

00:42:57.460 So I'd like to –

00:42:58.440 No, it's not a prime example.

00:42:59.640 So Tim, I haven't heard about the inhumane –

00:43:02.920 Yeah, let me fact check that.

00:43:03.960 I could do that.

00:43:04.260 I'm not sure about that.

00:43:05.760 So yeah, so I'll wait for that kind of evidence.

00:43:09.140 However –

00:43:10.100 Okay, no, we got it.

00:43:11.100 We got it.

00:43:11.420 I got it.

00:43:11.780 I got it.

00:43:12.160 Okay.

00:43:13.280 Since March of 2024, HHS has paid $18 million per month to keep the facility in Pecos,

00:43:16.680 Texas, used for housing unaccompanied migrant children.

00:43:18.840 That was previously at the center of reports of poor conditions.

00:43:21.260 That's what they said.

00:43:22.220 Okay, well, so –

00:43:23.440 So I don't know if that's the reason why they stopped using it.

00:43:25.220 So –

00:43:25.540 Okay, well, hold on.

00:43:26.160 Look at the sentence before.

00:43:27.780 As a result, family – this is the big controversy, right?

00:43:30.080 As a result, family endeavors cash portfolio investments grew for $8.3 million in 2020 to $520 million in 2023.

00:43:38.640 So what –

00:43:39.280 Yeah, that is –

00:43:40.360 Yeah, they –

00:43:40.840 No, it's not at all –

00:43:41.680 It's not at all sus.

00:43:42.680 They got money from a contract.

00:43:44.160 That's not at all sus.

00:43:45.100 Why would that be sus?

00:43:46.060 It doesn't make sense.

00:43:46.940 Because nobody's using it.

00:43:47.820 No, hold on.

00:43:48.420 Hold on.

00:43:48.940 We understand – I know, Tim, you understand, like, migration flows, right?

00:43:55.560 Migration flows aren't constant.

00:43:57.240 So there are some times – and we've seen this, right?

00:43:59.580 When migration has skyrocketed, right?

00:44:02.920 Because they were bringing them in.

00:44:04.460 Okay, whatever.

00:44:05.960 I love you, Gibbs.

00:44:07.420 So that – it skyrocketed, right?

00:44:09.780 And we've had a ton of facilities filled up to the brim, right?

00:44:13.480 To the point – and you might remember this, Tim – when there was – within Texas, right, we were housing migrants under a bridge because –

00:44:22.140 It's true.

00:44:22.460 Yeah, yeah, exactly.

00:44:23.700 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:24.480 It was entirely too much.

00:44:25.760 And so we didn't have enough facilities.

00:44:27.300 So what this is doing, right?

00:44:28.560 So, yes, this was an empty facility.

00:44:30.780 But we understand that we don't know when those migration flows are going up.

00:44:35.460 They were being paid to –

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00:44:43.760 I saw the one girl with her throat cut and her abdomen stabbed and slashed.

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00:45:06.460 Keep that facility open, right?

00:45:08.480 So when it does go up, we have a place to put the kids.

00:45:11.360 And if you want to complain, right, about the bad treatment of migrants – oh, I agree, right?

00:45:16.100 We treated them far worse than I think anything in this facility is probably done.

00:45:19.120 I don't want to know.

00:45:19.880 We remember the reports, right?

00:45:21.300 We remember the reports of what happened to those migrants.

00:45:24.180 We remember the sexual abuse.

00:45:25.400 We remember the freaking guy who was – he was – not castrating them, but he was like sterilizing women, right?

00:45:33.160 There was a doctor who was sterilizing women who were trapped in the immigration jails before.

00:45:38.320 We understand, yes, the federal government treats people badly.

00:45:42.740 But specifically talking about this contract, this contract is actually useful because we want to hold that space.

00:45:48.940 I don't want to dive too much into immigration because that's not –

00:45:51.240 Oh, no, no, but you brought this up, right?

00:45:53.280 I will.

00:45:53.960 Immigration is effectively zero now, right?

00:45:55.480 Well, that's where I was going to go with that.

00:45:56.600 We have had a record number of catches, right, on the border that are having record numbers of not gotaways, right?

00:46:03.700 Because one, Abbott went down there and built the wall.

00:46:06.580 And two, Trump has backed them up.

00:46:08.780 And it's proof that – hey, this is kind of how it relates to Doge – is it's proof that the government could have stepped in and done these things if they had wanted to, right?

00:46:16.540 And so then when we see this facility, this is clearly a fleece because they could have shut down the immigration because Trump's done it.

00:46:22.560 And then we –

00:46:23.960 They could have shut down.

00:46:25.320 That's a bullshit.

00:46:26.000 Hold on.

00:46:26.420 Hold on.

00:46:26.600 Do we have a caravan coming?

00:46:27.920 Do we have a caravan coming right now?

00:46:29.280 Not anymore because the wall is up.

00:46:30.460 Because the wall is up.

00:46:31.620 The wall hasn't changed.

00:46:32.460 What are you talking about?

00:46:33.140 We've had – hold on.

00:46:33.900 Hold on.

00:46:34.320 Did Trump suddenly build a massive amount of wall in the time since –

00:46:39.260 Oh, okay.

00:46:39.920 So, yeah.

00:46:40.900 But has – even when that was happening, we saw massive amounts of people trying to come in.

00:46:46.780 And we also saw in the areas where the wall was built in locations like Eagle Pass,

00:46:51.280 it went from $1,500 a day to a three in a week.

00:46:54.880 Yeah.

00:46:55.040 So your point is –

00:46:56.080 So what I'm saying is we can stop it and then we do stop it and then we have these facilities that are just a fleece.

00:47:01.120 All you're saying is that migrants can't become intangible, right?

00:47:04.020 They're not X-Men.

00:47:04.720 They're not Kitty Pryde, right?

00:47:05.780 They're not intangible.

00:47:07.360 And so when they find a wall, right, they try to go around that wall or they try to look for a witness in that wall.

00:47:12.580 Well, then how has it been stopped completely then?

00:47:14.440 Because we do have people coming up here.

00:47:15.980 Like I don't understand where your argument is here.

00:47:17.840 It's like not a good one.

00:47:18.740 It hasn't been stopped completely.

00:47:20.660 I'm saying that if there's – sorry.

00:47:22.400 If there's another – I keep hitting the mic.

00:47:23.680 I apologize.

00:47:24.420 If there's another crisis that happens, right, like within some Central or South American country, right?

00:47:30.880 There's always a crisis.

00:47:31.580 There's a crisis right now.

00:47:32.800 Yeah, hold on.

00:47:33.380 Venezuela.

00:47:34.660 Oh, my God, dude.

00:47:35.860 Like migration comes in waves.

00:47:38.940 We know this, right?

00:47:39.880 It comes in a different way.

00:47:41.100 Under each administration, right, under the Obama administration, the Trump administration, the Biden administration,

00:47:46.460 and then again during the Trump administration, there's going to be another surge.

00:47:50.580 It happens all the time.

00:47:52.340 And when that happens, the question is what do we do about them?

00:47:55.380 Do we actually prepare, right?

00:47:57.080 Do we understand like context?

00:47:58.820 Do we understand history?

00:47:59.820 It's like, oh, well, last time this happened, this was a huge problem.

00:48:02.200 We don't have any place to put these goddamn kids, right?

00:48:04.180 So – or do we – can we have a place available at that time?

00:48:07.720 It's actually a tiny amount of money.

00:48:08.920 Well, two things.

00:48:09.840 Two things to this objection real quick.

00:48:11.460 One, we've stopped it.

00:48:13.240 It's like it's proved that we can stop it.

00:48:14.460 Hold on.

00:48:15.060 What does we've stopped it mean, though?

00:48:16.980 Two, the Texas government and then on top of that –

00:48:19.900 There are other places to go in but in Texas.

00:48:21.120 Yeah, what Trump has done nationwide.

00:48:23.420 We've seen record numbers of like catches nationwide.

00:48:26.400 Like we've proved he can stop it.

00:48:27.840 Two –

00:48:28.160 That doesn't stop people from coming.

00:48:29.840 I didn't even factor in what Mr. Poole here brought up about the inhumane things.

00:48:35.340 But if it was inhumane, that's definitely one that should be shut down.

00:48:38.560 We treat all our prisoners inhumane.

00:48:40.000 Why are we going to have – why are we going to have a facility that we clearly didn't

00:48:43.720 need because we could have stopped it from the get-go and then when we get there, it's

00:48:46.640 not even used.

00:48:47.580 How can you justify $8 million a month to bring something from cold to like whatever?

00:48:52.480 Like y'all bring up – we don't know.

00:48:53.900 What I do know is I know how businesses work, right?

00:48:56.400 And when I look at a business –

00:48:57.920 This isn't a business.

00:48:58.660 This is a government.

00:48:59.640 No, in family endeavors, right?

00:49:00.980 Whenever I look at a business and they're charging $18 million a month to keep a facility

00:49:04.680 open because they got to keep it from cold storage.

00:49:06.700 All right, what do they have to do?

00:49:07.780 Okay, maybe you have to replace medicine.

00:49:09.080 Okay, how much can that cost?

00:49:10.780 Let's just say it costs a mil to replace medicine.

00:49:12.660 It's not just a mess on –

00:49:13.800 Let's say how many employees are you paying that are doing this?

00:49:17.040 Let's say another $3 million for all these employees.

00:49:19.360 There's no way you could justify $18 million a month.

00:49:22.420 It's a fleece.

00:49:23.340 It's a corruption.

00:49:23.880 Also, there's a – okay, look.

00:49:25.460 I'm not going to necessarily go through and defend a contract.

00:49:28.920 I don't know the exact details of, right?

00:49:30.480 But there's also the potential of that space, right?

00:49:32.680 So not only are they –

00:49:33.940 Potential?

00:49:34.360 Yeah, because if they weren't –

00:49:35.440 Are we spending money on the potential?

00:49:36.800 If they weren't – yeah, actually, no.

00:49:38.260 Of course you are.

00:49:38.960 Of course you are.

00:49:39.560 Why wouldn't a business charge for that, right?

00:49:41.520 Right?

00:49:41.940 If Tim –

00:49:43.420 It's insanity.

00:49:43.980 Sure.

00:49:44.340 If Tim is told that someone wants to use his studio, right?

00:49:49.500 But, like, they're not sure when.

00:49:51.600 But they are going to use it at some point in time, right?

00:49:53.920 And Tim's like, okay, well, I guess I'll let you use the studio.

00:49:56.740 But, like, I could be using this to do work.

00:49:59.360 I could be using this to make money, right?

00:50:00.940 So what I'm going to charge you for this is the price of, like, the studio maintenance in and of itself

00:50:05.640 and what I might be able to make, right?

00:50:08.080 Like a nominal rate for what I might be able to make otherwise.

00:50:10.580 Otherwise, he's losing money because he doesn't know when that contract is actually going to come in.

00:50:14.660 Obviously, you know business, right?

00:50:16.880 You know business until you know this, right?

00:50:18.200 Yeah, but they're overcharging.

00:50:19.880 Right, right, right.

00:50:20.760 I mean, I can – I respect the point you're making.

00:50:23.840 I'll try and give an analogy.

00:50:26.480 If I were to rent out my studio, we've got personnel who have to be on site to run and fix the cameras.

00:50:31.740 So if someone said, we don't know exactly when, but we're going to need to use that studio.

00:50:35.520 And I say, okay, well, when is when?

00:50:36.980 I mean, what do you want from us?

00:50:38.220 Just keep it open.

00:50:38.960 Well, if you want me to keep it open, we need facilities maintenance.

00:50:41.900 That means somebody to check the plumbing.

00:50:43.700 And you've got to be there every day.

00:50:44.900 And they have to have a clipboard where they go to every single room and write down,

00:50:48.700 is the water working or the pipe's frozen, whatever might happen.

00:50:51.220 We have to check the cameras every single day because if you want to be able to use it on a dime,

00:50:54.360 on a moment's notice, we have to check the cameras and do all that every single day.

00:50:57.880 We're going to have to have a minimal skeleton crew who's there.

00:51:00.700 For a larger facility, it's probably going to be two people.

00:51:03.160 So for this facility, we need at least two people, one person in the studio at all times,

00:51:06.260 one person walking the grounds, people will steal things.

00:51:09.640 And you're going to have to pay us every single month to maintain that.

00:51:13.200 I think the bigger issue is this is interconnected to clearly the Biden administration was allowing illegal immigration

00:51:22.140 and then offering up facilities money to operate.

00:51:26.660 That's absolutely right.

00:51:27.360 But I'm not arguing an opinion.

00:51:30.440 I'm saying they did a lot of this.

00:51:32.000 Biden is quoted as saying, surge the border.

00:51:34.320 He said that.

00:51:35.500 He told the immigrants to surge the border.

00:51:38.600 That's a direct quote.

00:51:38.980 Yeah, hold on.

00:51:39.700 Yeah, yeah.

00:51:40.200 First of all, I love this, the context of that quote.

00:51:41.940 But Kamala Harris literally went out.

00:51:43.900 The borders are.

00:51:44.580 I don't want to even defend Kamala Harris.

00:51:47.620 To be clear, I'm not a fan of the Joe Biden administration.

00:51:50.380 But in any case, Kamala Harris actually went to Central America and talked about, hey, don't come.

00:51:55.100 Remember this, right?

00:51:55.720 Sure, sure.

00:51:56.040 The don't come moment.

00:51:57.080 CNN reports from Andrew Kaczynski, Joe Biden promised to absorb two million asylum seekers in a heartbeat.

00:52:02.300 In 2019, he now faces an immigration crisis.

00:52:04.820 So the issue is bigger than just, I think it's a fair argument that if the U.S. government wants to maintain a facility,

00:52:10.880 you've got to pay to keep it open.

00:52:11.940 Sure.

00:52:12.260 The question is, why were they paying to keep a facility open?

00:52:15.500 They could have just said, we're not letting people in.

00:52:18.300 And if they knew that they were facing an immigration crisis and shutting the border down, they could have shut those facilities down.

00:52:23.540 International treaties, right, to say that if a person presents themselves at a border, right, or even not at a border, at two government officials,

00:52:32.180 we have to process them.

00:52:33.740 That's international.

00:52:34.460 That's actually part of the law.

00:52:35.940 It's not like you just shut it down.

00:52:37.620 I know that that's true.

00:52:38.640 Okay.

00:52:39.120 I mean, you're talking about the asylum treaty.

00:52:40.440 One, that's a whole different thing.

00:52:41.500 But on top of that, one, I'm also—

00:52:43.640 That's not a whole different thing.

00:52:44.820 That's part of this.

00:52:45.820 People are claiming asylum.

00:52:47.300 They're claiming asylum.

00:52:48.640 Yes, actually, we have to process them.

00:52:50.360 We're legally obligated to process those people.

00:52:52.040 Yeah, we're not obligated to process them here.

00:52:54.260 We can process them at the embassies.

00:52:55.740 We can process them there.

00:52:56.680 And on top of that, people are claiming asylum because of gang violence.

00:52:59.460 Like, I'm sorry, that's not a real reason for asylum.

00:53:01.900 So they're prohibited from being under the Refugee Act of 1980 and the 1951 UN Refugee Convention.

00:53:09.400 They are prohibited from being returned to their home countries.

00:53:13.200 They must be processed.

00:53:14.300 However, there is no requirement that they enter the United States.

00:53:17.300 Well, that's crazy.

00:53:19.940 Yeah, you can process them anywhere, sure, right?

00:53:24.340 But that doesn't—but some of them will end up being processed here.

00:53:29.600 And also, there's—you know, the immigration doesn't happen, like, straight through the border, right?

00:53:33.660 Because we get immigration from all kinds of sources.

00:53:36.540 Sure.

00:53:36.700 But the point is, is that we are supposed to process them somewhere, right?

00:53:42.060 And I want them to do it humanely.

00:53:43.900 And you bring up the humane point.

00:53:46.020 The U.S. doesn't treat any of its goddamn prisoners humanely, right?

00:53:48.660 Our citizen prisoners, we don't treat humanely.

00:53:51.120 That's something that we should change.

00:53:52.980 I'm curious.

00:53:53.560 Will Doge, like, deal with that?

00:53:55.700 But that's a larger issue, right?

00:53:58.420 That doesn't go to say that any individual contract dealing with these things is necessarily a problem.

00:54:05.000 But we can—

00:54:05.800 There's something called the Safe Third Country Agreement.

00:54:09.060 Individuals are not required in the United States to apply for asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.

00:54:14.140 However, they can be denied—found ineligible if they do pass through safe countries without seeking protection.

00:54:21.780 Yeah, so the—

00:54:22.620 Interesting.

00:54:23.280 Yeah, administration identifies, quote-unquote, safe countries that they can—like, so if you're coming up—

00:54:30.160 There's no safe countries in all of Central America.

00:54:32.140 And that's—hold on.

00:54:33.040 I mean, to be honest.

00:54:34.600 I mean—

00:54:35.260 All right.

00:54:35.560 Well, relative.

00:54:36.980 No, no.

00:54:37.380 Mexico's pretty good, but that's still North America.

00:54:39.700 Well, even then, Mexico, right?

00:54:40.980 The migrants, like, staying in—

00:54:43.360 Well, I guess anything Central America is technically—

00:54:44.600 Oh, my God.

00:54:45.120 I love Mexico.

00:54:46.600 Okay.

00:54:47.120 Well, I'm sure you would love Mexico, right?

00:54:48.640 A man of money, right?

00:54:50.020 Who, like, who can—

00:54:51.580 Bro, bro, bro, hold on there.

00:54:52.940 My dad's illegal.

00:54:53.700 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:54:54.540 Have you been to Mexico?

00:54:56.340 You do not need to be a man of money.

00:54:57.960 People go to Mexico specifically because the medical care is cheaper.

00:55:00.880 It's great.

00:55:02.440 That's why I love Mexico.

00:55:04.120 You went to Mexico because the—

00:55:05.960 Medical treatment.

00:55:06.640 Really?

00:55:06.880 Because you get medical treatment that's not legal in the United States, and it's, like, a tenth of the cost.

00:55:10.880 Okay.

00:55:11.320 So, family members of mine get all their dental work done in Mexico.

00:55:14.980 Not only is it, like, a tenth of the cost, but they have advanced technology.

00:55:18.580 They do blood platelet treatment.

00:55:20.580 I don't know what it's called.

00:55:21.580 After you get dental work done, they take some of your plasma, they spin it in a centrifuge, take the concentrated platelets, and inject it at the site to increase healing.

00:55:30.540 Bro, Mexico is awesome.

00:55:32.320 And they have Buffalo Wildwood.

00:55:33.600 Also, on that note—

00:55:34.720 Okay, well, then, just real quick.

00:55:35.800 I will say, they also have, like, drive-through pharmacies, which are pretty cool.

00:55:39.300 Like, you can go in there and tell them what you want.

00:55:41.140 So, if you wanted to get, you know, the gear or whatever, it's legal there, you get a prescription.

00:55:44.600 Bro, Mexico is—you can get really, really incredible food.

00:55:48.500 Like, I got to tell you, man, the reason why people go to Tijuana and Cancun places is because you can live well for very little money.

00:55:55.780 Like, you can get—

00:55:56.800 Same thing.

00:55:57.260 It's amazing.

00:55:58.500 My point is, is that your situation is different.

00:56:01.180 You want—when you're in Mexico, right, I'm assuming you're not desperate for housing.

00:56:06.200 I'm assuming you're not on the streets.

00:56:08.120 People coming—migrants coming through to Mexico get abused all the time, right?

00:56:13.680 That's not our problem.

00:56:14.820 It's true, though.

00:56:15.580 He's right.

00:56:16.280 Yeah, they get abused.

00:56:17.080 Yeah, they get abused.

00:56:17.500 That's not our problem.

00:56:18.200 Like, I hate to sound like a dick.

00:56:19.520 Like, it's America has its own problems.

00:56:22.940 No, Gibbs, Gibbs, I know.

00:56:24.060 You don't actually give a damn about anyone else, right?

00:56:26.120 Sure.

00:56:26.320 But for the rest of us, right, for people who actually have humanity, we actually do care about these people, right?

00:56:30.900 I disagree with you.

00:56:31.940 I think you're evil.

00:56:33.080 Oh, okay.

00:56:33.520 Thank you.

00:56:34.080 But I'm not trying to be mean or rude or whatever.

00:56:36.400 I think that there is a banality of evil in let us entice people to travel from, say, Africa to Brazil, up through some of the most dangerous parts of the world.

00:56:47.100 What's that corridor in Panama that's considered one of the most dangerous places in the world?

00:56:50.560 We have children, young girls being raped mercilessly because people like you are saying, please, you can make it.

00:56:58.240 Come, come, come.

00:56:59.080 And then what happens?

00:56:59.880 No.

00:57:00.180 I brought that up before.

00:57:02.140 They end up sleeping under bridges.

00:57:03.580 They end up getting sold into sex trafficking.

00:57:06.000 Yes.

00:57:06.420 This is true.

00:57:06.960 This is – Dr. Phil reported this on The View.

00:57:09.360 How about we say, you will not be granted anything from us.

00:57:13.620 Stop trying to make this perilous journey.

00:57:15.340 Sure.

00:57:15.600 Okay, hold on.

00:57:16.420 That's an option, Tim.

00:57:18.380 That's an option, right?

00:57:19.580 Or we could do the thing that I'm actually in favor of and have more legal migration, right?

00:57:26.860 These people want to come here.

00:57:28.860 Let's have more open legal paths.

00:57:30.660 I am not in favor of undocumented immigration, right?

00:57:34.440 It's a problem on all levels.

00:57:36.180 The humanitarian level, right?

00:57:38.060 Just as you've laid out.

00:57:40.220 But also logistically in terms of cost, right?

00:57:44.360 Like there's a certain level of burden that happens when you're dealing with undocumented

00:57:47.660 immigrants.

00:57:47.760 Let me just ask this one.

00:57:49.060 No, hold on.

00:57:49.420 No.

00:57:49.620 No, don't add.

00:57:50.420 Don't add yet.

00:57:51.040 One second, okay?

00:57:53.440 I love the Gibbs, right?

00:57:55.320 Go ahead.

00:57:55.860 Yeah, don't fly.

00:57:56.340 Gibbs and I know each other in case the audience doesn't know that.

00:57:58.340 Gibbs and I know each other.

00:57:59.960 But in any case –

00:58:00.720 But they're not friends.

00:58:03.260 Not while we're working.

00:58:04.280 Amen.

00:58:05.020 But in any case – but no, we should actually have legalized immigration, right?

00:58:09.120 We want people to be documented.

00:58:10.660 Explain – like do you have a view of the structure of the immigration you'd want to see?

00:58:15.020 Um, I would – I'm not going to go exactly because I'm not an immigration lawyer, so

00:58:20.980 I'm going to be clear, right?

00:58:22.600 But in any of our – the various paths that we use – because there's like all kinds

00:58:29.760 of paths that you can go through, right?

00:58:31.440 Like a one.

00:58:32.240 Increase the numbers, right?

00:58:34.220 Like if there is quotas, if there is barriers of entry for like people coming here to work,

00:58:43.600 right?

00:58:44.100 Let's lower those barriers.

00:58:45.300 I agree with you on all that.

00:58:46.580 Like I like – I want a secure border, but I also want work – like one of my best friends

00:58:49.620 is a former illegal alien.

00:58:50.760 He's legal now.

00:58:51.600 This man's living the American dream.

00:58:52.780 He works three minimum – this is also why I'm against welfare, right?

00:58:55.520 This man works three minimum wage jobs.

00:58:58.060 He just bought his first home.

00:58:59.600 He just bought a Porsche, and he's getting married to like a large American woman.

00:59:04.020 And he's like, oh, Gibbsy, I have made the American dream.

00:59:08.100 I'm going to have kids and all these things.

00:59:09.640 And I'm like, this guy, what is your excuse when you're working – he's working three jobs.

00:59:13.360 He's a legal – yeah, I want more of these people that want to come work.

00:59:16.500 And a lot of them are people living off the welfare.

00:59:18.320 A lot of them are people.

00:59:18.740 Like this guy is just sitting here – like you're going to work 60, 80 hours a week,

00:59:21.420 and you're going to make it.

00:59:22.060 You can do that doing anything.

00:59:23.620 They're not living off the welfare.

00:59:25.880 These are –

00:59:26.220 Absolutely, people living off the welfare.

00:59:27.420 Oh, no, I'm sorry.

00:59:29.100 There's always going to be some level of people using government help, right?

00:59:32.140 Sorry.

00:59:32.480 There's going to be some level of people, including our own citizens, using government help.

00:59:35.920 But the point is like if what you're talking about –

00:59:38.380 But why can this guy do it and millions of Americans can't?

00:59:41.360 Like I'm absolutely for legal immigration.

00:59:43.300 Stop moving the goalposts.

00:59:44.560 I'm not moving the goalposts.

00:59:45.120 Oh, no, you've actually –

00:59:46.580 It's the same goalposts.

00:59:47.560 Hold on.

00:59:48.020 We can – no, it's not.

00:59:49.680 So what we're talking about is people like getting in, the process of getting in.

00:59:53.240 And do we want like what that process should look like?

00:59:56.740 And now I can agree with you that we should have a quote-unquote secure border, right?

01:00:00.920 Because like I just said, I'm not for undocumented immigration, right?

01:00:03.760 I want people to come the proper way.

01:00:05.900 And if that comes along with a stronger border fence, like whatever, fine, right?

01:00:10.680 Because I don't want people to make that dangerous journey, right?

01:00:12.820 I want them to be able to come in here in a legalized manner, of course, right?

01:00:16.760 And so in that case, maybe we can find common ground, right?

01:00:19.060 We want them to come here and then to be able to work, right?

01:00:21.780 We want to lower the barriers because I –

01:00:23.460 Paleo cause –

01:00:24.200 I know a lot of –

01:00:24.840 There's a lot of Republicans that will agree with that.

01:00:26.720 Great.

01:00:27.340 Tim, do you agree?

01:00:28.520 With –

01:00:29.380 Sorry, like having more legalized immigration, right?

01:00:33.320 In terms of people here coming to work to be productive, of course, right?

01:00:37.040 Short answer, no.

01:00:38.060 Long answer is – it's not – the simple question of do we want an easier path, there's

01:00:44.840 way too many factors in the labor market to say more or less.

01:00:50.020 So it's overly simplistic to say, let's make it easier for people to immigrate here.

01:00:53.580 Oh, hold on.

01:00:54.100 What's the unemployment rate?

01:00:55.240 This is an important question.

01:00:56.080 When we determine whether or not we're going to make immigration easier or harder, we have

01:01:00.860 to check our current economic factors.

01:01:03.680 There are certain times where we may want more.

01:01:05.640 There are certain times where we may want less.

01:01:07.620 And there's a whole bunch of different types of visas.

01:01:10.440 So the one thing we don't want – the one thing we do want to happen right now is all

01:01:15.280 illegal immigrants got to go.

01:01:17.720 All illegal immigrants got to go.

01:01:19.800 Why?

01:01:20.560 So Donald Trump in his first term had a raid on numerous food processing plants in the

01:01:24.920 South.

01:01:25.200 I think it was something like ICE raids led to 700 or 800 deportations.

01:01:28.900 The collective narrative from the corporate press and prominent Democrats was, these are

01:01:33.800 jobs Americans don't want.

01:01:35.300 Oh.

01:01:35.740 Literally within a day, there were lines out the door of people trying to get these jobs.

01:01:40.120 And when they interviewed people, one guy said, it pays more money than where I worked

01:01:43.140 at a gas station.

01:01:43.420 I'm so glad you brought this up.

01:01:44.400 So the issue is, first, legal immigration is fantastic, and I'm a big fan.

01:01:50.220 And I think, as Trump said, we want everybody in the world to come here, but they got to

01:01:53.740 do it legally.

01:01:55.140 Agreed.

01:01:55.900 So the response we get typically from Democrats is, so we should make it easier.

01:01:59.320 But that still doesn't address the, we need to make sure we have the appropriate unemployment

01:02:04.820 number.

01:02:05.580 Many people don't understand this.

01:02:06.920 I learned this only in the past few years.

01:02:08.360 We want unemployment to be around 3% and 4%, and it's currently just at 4%.

01:02:12.780 It could be lower.

01:02:13.480 The reason why is, no unemployment means there's literally no flexibility in the job

01:02:18.340 market.

01:02:18.960 It means that a company who's looking to fill a position can't find someone to fill it

01:02:22.340 because literally everybody has a job.

01:02:24.280 So there's a degree of unemployment that actually is not a bad thing.

01:02:27.060 If unemployment is high, no immigration.

01:02:30.220 If unemployment is low, then we need immigration.

01:02:32.160 What sounds like you're saying is that you're looking for a dynamic system, right?

01:02:36.620 That actually adjusts the current conditions, right?

01:02:38.540 If there is slack within the labor market that's not being filled by Americans, you'd

01:02:43.400 say, let's maybe increase the amount of immigrants coming in, right?

01:02:47.900 If there's not slack, then we put a pause on it.

01:02:50.960 Does that sound fair, like a fair assessment of the argument?

01:02:53.300 To simplify a dynamic system that fluctuates year over year, I think that's what we do.

01:02:57.420 Well, I want to talk a little bit about what you just brought up with the ag workers

01:02:59.860 and whatnot, because I directly work in ag, right?

01:03:02.680 My family has worked with immigrants their entire lives in regards to ranching.

01:03:06.860 I have some of my fondest memories of getting fresh tortillas from, in fact, still my favorite

01:03:11.700 food today, tortillas with butter on them, right?

01:03:13.580 It's like some of the immigrants.

01:03:15.840 Gibbs is a Mexican case.

01:03:16.720 Have you ever had a tortilla right off the press from a family Mexican restaurant?

01:03:20.520 Yeah, it's amazing.

01:03:21.680 Magic.

01:03:21.920 I mean, I make masa myself, so I'm a big fan.

01:03:24.160 But when we're sitting here and we're talking about these things, the Democrats, not you,

01:03:30.020 Brian, but the Democrats as a party, as a general, are arguing for what amounts to modern-day

01:03:35.080 slavery, right?

01:03:36.020 They're arguing, oh, all these costs are going to go up with agriculture if we replace these

01:03:40.240 immigrants, right?

01:03:40.840 Well, that's fine, because the free market is going to fill it with American workers or

01:03:45.240 legal immigrant workers, because that's who should be getting the job.

01:03:48.780 Some prices might go up, but wages will go up.

01:03:51.420 Instead, what we're doing is we're having illegal immigrants here working in ag, and we're

01:03:54.840 underpaying the living shit out of them, and they're driving the cost down for everybody.

01:03:58.840 And that's hurting mom-and-pop ranchers way more than anything else.

01:04:03.300 I agree.

01:04:03.960 We should have these people documented and then paying them a proper wage, so they're

01:04:07.420 not undermining American workers.

01:04:09.740 I agree.

01:04:10.160 We should have more legal immigration.

01:04:11.960 Now, Tim, I don't know about this particular situation that you're talking about.

01:04:15.200 I'm going to take your word for it, right?

01:04:16.820 In terms of this, was it a factory or whatever, this processing plant?

01:04:19.760 It was a big story like five, six years ago.

01:04:21.700 I'm sorry.

01:04:22.420 I'm unfamiliar.

01:04:23.080 But what I have seen is testimonials on the other side of farm workers or whatever, farm

01:04:30.600 owners, saying the opposite, that they don't have people to fill in these.

01:04:35.080 I'll give you a simple one.

01:04:36.220 Okay.

01:04:37.000 I don't care, Margaret.

01:04:38.140 If a farm worker says, we can't convince Americans to do the jobs, then you need to find

01:04:43.440 a way to do it.

01:04:43.980 That's called the market.

01:04:45.040 I'm a big fan of Trump's tariffs, and I'm a big fan of companies having to pay a living

01:04:48.980 wage, so this argument of nobody wants to do this job.

01:04:53.280 Pay more.

01:04:53.880 Here's a curious question for you.

01:04:55.280 Would you go and pick grapes in Virginia?

01:05:01.880 They've got a lot of wineries.

01:05:02.640 Would you do that for $7 an hour?

01:05:05.080 No.

01:05:05.700 But an illegal immigrant would.

01:05:07.160 Would you do it for $12 an hour?

01:05:09.440 No.

01:05:10.040 Would you do it for $20?

01:05:12.380 Probably not.

01:05:12.900 There's a number.

01:05:13.520 Obviously, there's a number.

01:05:14.320 50?

01:05:14.760 Yeah, yeah.

01:05:15.180 50, sure.

01:05:15.920 50 bucks an hour, you take the job.

01:05:17.020 Broke as shit.

01:05:17.420 Hey, guess what?

01:05:18.080 But the problem we have is these people who are going, I can't convince anybody to do

01:05:22.800 it.

01:05:22.960 What they're really telling you is, I want to exploit poor people who will go on perilous

01:05:27.080 journeys and work illegally.

01:05:28.420 I hear you.

01:05:29.340 Come on.

01:05:29.800 We agree.

01:05:30.440 On Santa.

01:05:31.100 Again, we keep saying we agree, right?

01:05:33.040 If we're saying that we want more legal immigration, or sorry, you're not saying that.

01:05:36.800 You're not quite saying that, right?

01:05:37.940 But I'm saying at least, I want these people who are working here to be documented, be legalized.

01:05:42.460 And then that's the path for it.

01:05:43.480 I agree with that, too.

01:05:44.280 Okay.

01:05:44.480 But I think the reason why I didn't say yes or no to the should we increase or decrease

01:05:49.920 is it really depends on the current levels of unemployment.

01:05:54.040 And the other concern is the cultural concern.

01:05:57.320 So when you, and look, it's weird that this is even debated, but when you have a large influx

01:06:03.020 of migrants, you see this in every single country, you get cultural displacement, which

01:06:06.420 leads to conflict.

01:06:07.820 And that is not a good thing.

01:06:08.980 Oh, boy.

01:06:09.520 All right.

01:06:10.600 That's a fact.

01:06:11.320 I mean, yeah.

01:06:11.940 We've been lucky in North America with our immigration where it's very similar.

01:06:15.520 Like, we haven't had as much of that problem.

01:06:17.700 Like, maybe it's because we have the Spanish.

01:06:20.440 We have the Spanish who used to own Mexico and all this.

01:06:22.620 And the culture is similar.

01:06:24.280 We've been lucky with it in regards to that.

01:06:26.400 Our cultures are fairly similar compared to, say, Europe, where they're having vastly different

01:06:32.080 cultures move in.

01:06:32.740 I don't think it's the same problem, you know, except on a mass scale.

01:06:36.820 But I'll give you a specific example because I went to Sweden, and this was like a big thing

01:06:39.640 that I did.

01:06:40.600 In the 90s, Sweden brought in a bunch of refugees from Somalia.

01:06:44.900 They did not have proper placement plans.

01:06:46.880 They literally just said, have fun, figuratively.

01:06:49.820 And what ended up happening was, well, what does a refugee, migrant, or otherwise do?

01:06:55.300 They would prefer to live near people like themselves.

01:06:57.720 This is true for any human anywhere.

01:06:59.140 Yeah, yeah.

01:06:59.660 You can see it in places like Chicago.

01:07:01.340 Chinatown.

01:07:02.500 Exactly.

01:07:03.140 And so what ends up happening is the children of these Somali refugees were born in Sweden.

01:07:08.860 They do not know Somalia.

01:07:10.600 If they go and visit Somalia, they're called Swedes, and they have a weird accent.

01:07:15.480 In Sweden, they're called migrants, despite being born there.

01:07:19.100 And so they end up creating enclaves where the culture is dramatically different.

01:07:23.920 And Swedish people consider the things they do to be criminal, but the police can't go and

01:07:27.640 enforce it because you've got a dense population of tens of thousands of individuals.

01:07:32.120 I'll give you an example in the United States.

01:07:33.540 You can be shaking your head no, but in the United States, we have a female genital mutilation

01:07:36.840 problem in Michigan because of the large Muslim population that comes.

01:07:41.080 To them, it is culturally normal to engage in female circumcision.

01:07:44.100 In the United States, we call that mutilation.

01:07:45.900 Sure, yes.

01:07:46.380 And they have to follow the laws of the United States.

01:07:47.920 But they don't.

01:07:48.660 Yeah.

01:07:48.780 I mean, in Jordan, they should make the Palestinian refugees create a civil war almost over the

01:07:52.840 government.

01:07:53.100 Then they should be arrested.

01:07:54.120 So you are saying that state police in Michigan should go into Dearborns that are arresting

01:07:58.520 these groups that are practicing these traditions?

01:08:01.040 If an individual does female genital mutilation, yes, they should arrest an individual.

01:08:07.300 Not go in and simply arrest large groups of people on suspicion that they've done female

01:08:11.560 genital mutilation.

01:08:12.220 Do you disagree that large migrants can cause unrest, though, as a concept?

01:08:16.360 Jordan had a civil war over this.

01:08:17.960 Hold on.

01:08:18.540 Let's like, I want to recenter, right?

01:08:20.280 Because I don't know.

01:08:20.940 I honestly actually don't know how long the show is.

01:08:23.200 We have an hour.

01:08:24.280 Okay.

01:08:24.780 So we came here to talk about it.

01:08:27.120 Real quick.

01:08:27.660 My point was cultural displacement.

01:08:30.000 So one of the concerns we have on the right is if you have 100 people who like baseball

01:08:36.300 and every year they vote to allocate tax funds to a baseball game and you bring in 101 people

01:08:42.660 who play cricket, when it comes to a vote, cricket is going to win and the people who

01:08:46.920 are from there get angry and it leads to conflict.

01:08:48.860 Yeah.

01:08:49.100 So within our own country, right, there are people who like baseball and there are people

01:08:52.400 who like basketball, right?

01:08:54.060 Let's say some people who like basketball from New York and they come to Florida where

01:08:59.460 people like baseball.

01:09:00.620 And then from there, you can say there's cultural displacement.

01:09:02.980 Yeah, that happens when we have migrant flows.

01:09:06.300 And all of a sudden we have a conflict.

01:09:07.700 That happens with an internalized movement and it happens with externalized movement.

01:09:12.620 That's what happens when new people get common contact with each other.

01:09:17.040 But that's okay.

01:09:17.680 That's the thing that can happen.

01:09:18.600 And the U.S. is actually uniquely capable of doing this, right?

01:09:21.820 We have been taking immigrants, a country of immigrants, we've been taking immigrants

01:09:25.100 from the very beginning.

01:09:26.440 We're actually very good with onboarding immigrants compared to a lot of those European countries.

01:09:30.700 But in any case, right, I actually do want to pull it back because we came here.

01:09:34.980 Sure.

01:09:36.840 Yeah.

01:09:37.300 Again, agreed.

01:09:38.360 I don't know.

01:09:38.820 Wait, what?

01:09:39.240 Is that a real thing?

01:09:41.320 Unconstitutional genital mutilation?

01:09:42.560 Okay.

01:09:42.920 U.S. law banning female genital mutilation declared unconstitutional.

01:09:46.460 That's insanity.

01:09:47.600 Oh, then I-

01:09:48.860 Is this from seven years ago?

01:09:49.880 Well, then I disagree.

01:09:51.020 Six years ago.

01:09:51.560 Sure, sure.

01:09:52.160 I disagree with that.

01:09:52.840 Federal judge in Detroit.

01:09:54.360 See, here's the issue.

01:09:55.440 I don't care.

01:09:56.280 I don't care.

01:09:57.020 I would really like-

01:09:58.200 You don't care that they did that?

01:09:58.780 No, hold on.

01:09:59.460 I do care.

01:10:00.100 Hold on.

01:10:00.340 I do care about female genital mutilation.

01:10:02.040 I've already said that, right?

01:10:03.160 But in terms of this actual court case, right?

01:10:05.140 Like, yes, I agree with you.

01:10:06.440 If-

01:10:07.220 I'm assuming that you're-

01:10:08.560 I'm assuming that you're giving this story correctly, right?

01:10:10.800 I'm just going to assume that.

01:10:11.060 Oh, I don't know.

01:10:11.400 I just pulled it up.

01:10:11.920 I didn't read it.

01:10:12.280 Oh, okay.

01:10:12.940 All right.

01:10:13.180 Let me ask you a question.

01:10:16.000 They're not gotchas.

01:10:16.760 It's a literal question.

01:10:17.680 Do you think that gender identity should be protected-

01:10:20.280 Oh, my God.

01:10:20.900 No.

01:10:21.280 Sorry.

01:10:21.620 I want to talk about douche.

01:10:22.960 I want to talk about douche.

01:10:23.740 I get that.

01:10:24.800 In the context of this, I have a series of questions to ask you.

01:10:27.740 I don't-

01:10:28.280 No, I-

01:10:28.780 Okay, you can say no opinion, no comment.

01:10:30.620 No comment.

01:10:31.220 I'm not prepared for-

01:10:33.040 I'm not-

01:10:33.520 To go on female genital mutilation.

01:10:35.140 If you want to have me back on-

01:10:36.100 I'm not going to ask you about female genital mutilation.

01:10:37.680 Or gender theory, or whatever.

01:10:39.160 I'm not going to ask you about gender theory.

01:10:39.780 I don't want to talk-

01:10:40.280 I don't want to talk about it.

01:10:41.060 So no comment?

01:10:42.000 Not on that.

01:10:43.080 Okay.

01:10:43.640 Come back.

01:10:44.320 Invite me back, and I'll have that conversation with you.

01:10:46.160 Okay, so let me-

01:10:46.620 No, I'm not going to have that conversation right now.

01:10:47.780 I'll explain the issue as to migration, as we were talking about it, which correlates

01:10:52.480 with the San Antonio Endeavor facility, the waste of money, and the Biden administration

01:10:55.740 allowing people in.

01:10:58.260 In Michigan, of course, a judge ruled that-

01:11:00.760 This is six years old.

01:11:01.820 That female genital mutilation-

01:11:02.940 The ban on female genital mutilation was unconstitutional.

01:11:06.300 Someone in this country might ask themselves,

01:11:07.920 how is it possible that a judge would declare such a thing?

01:11:11.140 So the reason I bring up human rights law, and you don't got to answer it, whatever,

01:11:14.340 is that in New York City, they say that gender identity is defined as self-expression,

01:11:20.180 meaning the name you give yourself, the pronouns you use, and the clothing you wear,

01:11:23.560 no matter what it may be.

01:11:25.440 Well, this literally means that an individual could dress up like a cowboy and call himself

01:11:30.260 cowboy gender.

01:11:30.900 But I don't think a judge is going to look at that and say, well, hold on there a gosh

01:11:36.720 darn minute.

01:11:37.900 So in the story I've told quite a bit, I talked to several human rights lawyers in New York

01:11:42.020 and asked them, if I dressed up in, say, a clown costume for my first day at work and

01:11:47.560 said I was clown gender, would they have to respect me dressed up like bozo?

01:11:51.160 And they said, no, they can fire you for that.

01:11:53.760 And I said, hold on, though.

01:11:54.700 The law clearly states in plain English, what I wear, what I call myself is my gender identity,

01:12:00.700 and it is a protected class.

01:12:02.360 The response I got was a judge would laugh you out of the courtroom if you tried to pull

01:12:06.000 that card.

01:12:06.940 What ends up happening in places like Michigan, and I'm not saying it was specifically for

01:12:10.260 this story, is if you have an area that becomes 60, 70 percent of any culture, the

01:12:16.940 judges in that place will represent that culture.

01:12:19.880 When the question arises to a Christian moral traditionalist American, should we ban female

01:12:25.520 genital mutilation, they're going to say without a doubt, well, of course, you can't do that.

01:12:30.120 But what happens when you get a judge who this is part of their culture, and they call it

01:12:34.100 female circumcision, not mutilation, they're going to say, you can't ban that.

01:12:37.940 That's a religious traditional practice.

01:12:40.400 The judges interpret the law, and they will interpret as their culture and moral traditions

01:12:44.160 dictate.

01:12:45.140 To my point, to wrap it all up, and we can go back to Dozier or whatever, when I mentioned

01:12:48.760 I don't know that we necessarily want more or less immigration.

01:12:51.920 The question is not just economics or unemployment, it's cultural displacement.

01:12:55.680 Do we want people to form communities where their judges interpret our laws in ways that

01:13:01.580 would actually shock Americans?

01:13:03.000 Like you were both rather shocked to find a judge in Detroit said that it is unconstitutional

01:13:07.940 to ban female genital mutilation.

01:13:09.360 Can I add one thing to that before we go back to Doge?

01:13:11.340 This is also another problem that I found out recently.

01:13:13.340 I saw New York was considering letting legal migrants start voting, which I'm not a fan

01:13:20.160 of in local elections, and I think California already does it.

01:13:23.300 That exacerbates the problem that you're talking about right there.

01:13:28.300 We're having people that are not even citizens voting.

01:13:30.760 He'll always vote for their own.

01:13:31.500 I mean, imagine if I was in Texas, right?

01:13:33.200 And I have a ranch, because I do.

01:13:34.420 If I decided, hey, I'm going to bring in a bunch of immigrants, and we're making the

01:13:37.540 local laws to where, hey, they could vote, well, they're just going to vote me into office,

01:13:42.260 and I'm going to never get out, because what's good for me is good for them.

01:13:45.860 Like, this is just a pathway to corruption that the Dems have been using, which is bringing

01:13:50.180 in immigrants and then a pathway to corruption.

01:13:52.680 Wow.

01:13:54.260 Embarrassing.

01:13:54.840 Sorry.

01:13:55.360 It is embarrassing.

01:13:56.100 I would be embarrassed.

01:13:56.880 I don't.

01:13:57.400 If non-citizens can vote, there's no democracy.

01:13:57.860 No, yeah, it's an embarrassing argument you're making here.

01:13:59.860 But whatever.

01:14:00.240 So if non-citizens can vote, like they proposed in San Francisco and New York, and I believe in Connecticut,

01:14:05.920 there is no democracy at all.

01:14:09.160 Democracy ends.

01:14:09.600 Okay, great, great, great.

01:14:10.680 Let's talk about Doge and how Doge is ending our democracy.

01:14:13.240 How is it doing that?

01:14:14.260 Sure, of course, right?

01:14:15.620 How is Doge ending democracy?

01:14:16.520 Okay, yeah, let's talk about that.

01:14:17.800 I'm sorry.

01:14:18.640 Let's talk about that.

01:14:19.780 So the reason why I think that Doge is ending our democracy is specifically because it's

01:14:24.740 doing an end run around our own particular processes.

01:14:29.920 You did mention that when we open the show.

01:14:31.900 So the question we then came to was, this gentleman here voted for it, and Trump won

01:14:35.840 the popular vote, and now Trump isn't doing what he promised he'd do.

01:14:38.560 And I got a question.

01:14:40.060 Hold on, hold on.

01:14:40.320 How is it not democracy, though?

01:14:41.980 Sure.

01:14:42.320 Hold on.

01:14:42.600 Well, then let's look at that, right?

01:14:43.640 So there was a Reuters poll, right, talking about Americans are broadly supportive of the

01:14:49.280 idea of cutting the sides of the federal government, with 59% of respondents to our Reuters

01:14:53.420 slash Ipsos poll completed on Wednesday saying they supported that goal, right?

01:14:57.600 How many voters?

01:14:58.500 How many people were in the poll?

01:15:00.200 I don't know.

01:15:01.460 Well, it's important because we did a poll in November and found the majority of the

01:15:04.560 country supported Doge.

01:15:05.660 It said, hold on, it said 50, well, I'm saying, it said 59%.

01:15:09.480 Of how many people?

01:15:10.440 I don't know.

01:15:11.260 Right, so let me tell you.

01:15:12.580 We're going to look up the poll.

01:15:13.480 That's fine.

01:15:13.920 70 plus million people voted for Doge.

01:15:16.120 A poll is an opinion extrapolation.

01:15:19.000 Hold on.

01:15:19.520 Hold on.

01:15:19.800 Hold on.

01:15:20.420 We're going to talk about, like, what they voted for.

01:15:22.800 I want to talk about that.

01:15:24.180 That's what I'm getting.

01:15:25.000 Okay.

01:15:25.360 Well, then that's what I'm trying to get to, right?

01:15:26.660 So, 59% of respondents towards Ipsos poll that was completed this Wednesday said they

01:15:32.660 supported that goal, right?

01:15:34.540 But, right, then they asked, right, so how about the way Trump is going about it, right?

01:15:41.360 In terms of firing tens of thousands of federal workers, right?

01:15:45.220 And then 59%, exactly what I said, they opposed the way that Trump is doing, right?

01:15:53.220 So, people, no, you're correct, that people voted for cutting government, right?

01:15:59.320 Like, 70 million or whatever the number is, right?

01:16:01.240 Voted for cutting that.

01:16:02.820 Or Elon Musk to do it specifically.

01:16:04.080 No, hold on, hold on.

01:16:05.020 Yes.

01:16:05.480 They voted to cut waste, fraud, and abuse.

01:16:08.540 So, let's pause real quick.

01:16:09.740 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

01:16:10.480 To address your point, Elon Musk for a year said, we will have doge, we will go in, we

01:16:16.860 will cut these programs, we will fire people.

01:16:19.700 Trump came out and campaigned on how they were going to do it, and people voted for him.

01:16:23.700 You can argue that the masses are ignorant and didn't pay attention.

01:16:25.740 No, no, no.

01:16:26.180 Just to prime your point real quick before you go on, because this has been a point that

01:16:29.740 I've heard in the debate sphere, and it's mainly like a lot lately, right?

01:16:34.180 And it's that all these Republicans got bamboozled, they can't believe what they voted for,

01:16:38.760 what is Musk doing?

01:16:40.480 And I'm sitting here going, who are these people?

01:16:43.500 Because I'm a Republican, I talk to Republicans daily in my real life, I talk to Republicans

01:16:48.000 in the online space, I talk to people, I haven't met a single Republican that is going, I hate

01:16:54.920 it, like, you know, there's some like me go, oh, I have some concerns about like what's

01:16:58.840 going to happen next with a new agency, and if like a DIM gets in charge, but like, because

01:17:02.720 we don't like trust big government, right?

01:17:04.000 But overall, I haven't met a single Republican that these DIMs are talking about, these are

01:17:09.520 phantom Republicans, that are going, oh no, lord and lordy, they're coming for us, like

01:17:13.940 it's ridiculous.

01:17:14.820 It turns out within Gibbs' friend group, everyone seems to agree.

01:17:18.220 Amazing.

01:17:18.580 I mean, do you think my friend group leaves, right?

01:17:20.100 Right, yeah, it turns out within my Christian friend group, right, everyone really loves

01:17:25.060 Christ, you think this is a great guy, right?

01:17:26.900 Who would have seen that coming?

01:17:28.420 I mean, most of my friends are left.

01:17:29.540 No, it's not democracy.

01:17:30.580 Hold on, what does, okay, what does democracy mean?

01:17:34.980 Like, what do people actually vote for, right?

01:17:37.480 Like, the average person says, it's so, that they're going to cut waste, fraud, and abuse,

01:17:42.280 right?

01:17:42.500 That they're going to shrink the size of the federal government, and the federal government

01:17:45.660 being this big, unwieldy thing in people's minds, they say, sure, yes, actually, that's

01:17:50.020 great.

01:17:50.520 Waste, fraud, and abuse, that's a very convenient tagline that we can just repeat over and over

01:17:54.220 again, right?

01:17:54.860 But the details of that matter, of course, how do the details of the plan not actually matter?

01:18:01.420 I just want to, because they didn't know.

01:18:02.760 I'm going to try and get this, to answer this question, how would you define democracy?

01:18:08.000 How would I define democracy?

01:18:09.660 People voting for, people voting to, just people voting, that's actually democracy, just people,

01:18:18.640 the people voting, that's democracy.

01:18:20.400 Like, voting for what?

01:18:22.540 It depends.

01:18:23.220 If we're in a democratic republic, right, then we're voting for representatives.

01:18:28.660 If we're in a direct democracy, then we're voting directly for the policy.

01:18:31.300 And we're in a democratic republic.

01:18:33.060 Yeah.

01:18:33.500 So, we have a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives.

01:18:36.680 So, you're saying that, okay.

01:18:38.920 I was just asking.

01:18:39.580 Yeah, hold on, hold on.

01:18:40.440 Then let me ask you this, right?

01:18:41.740 Are you saying that within a representative democracy, that people never end up voting

01:18:47.320 for a representative who says they're going to do a thing, right?

01:18:49.680 And then they start doing that thing, but they didn't understand, they didn't understand

01:18:53.920 the details.

01:18:54.780 And so, like, what they're actually getting is not what they want.

01:18:57.180 You just, hold on, before-

01:18:58.440 In a representative democracy?

01:18:59.780 Hold on, before we just got started, right?

01:19:02.100 We were in the green room.

01:19:03.660 You talked about the Green New Deal.

01:19:05.460 Yeah, I was a big fan of it.

01:19:06.020 You said how you were a big fan of the Green New Deal until you heard the details.

01:19:09.720 Until you released it, right?

01:19:10.960 That's right.

01:19:11.120 So, let's say you were a consensualist of AOC, right?

01:19:13.400 Yep.

01:19:13.680 And you voted for that.

01:19:14.720 She says she's going to get the Green New Deal.

01:19:15.920 I support that.

01:19:16.740 But then when she actually gets in office, she puts out a plan that you don't support.

01:19:20.140 Now, you're saying, well, that's just democracy.

01:19:22.600 And it is just democracy.

01:19:23.880 But that doesn't necessarily, it captures exactly the will of you, the individual.

01:19:29.300 Correct?

01:19:29.900 So, here's the issue.

01:19:33.000 When AOC first got elected, and they're talking about a Green New Deal, the implication was

01:19:37.260 a public works program investing in green energy, rebuilding roads and bridges.

01:19:41.600 We've got crumbling infrastructure.

01:19:43.140 And I said, that sounds fantastic.

01:19:44.260 Of course, my position usually on this stuff is, we got to cut spending somewhere to pay

01:19:48.340 for it.

01:19:48.600 We shouldn't be taxing people to do it.

01:19:49.760 We shouldn't be spending money on wars.

01:19:50.940 Let's stop spending money on Ukraine, Israel, insert country.

01:19:53.880 Afghanistan, and bring that money back home.

01:19:56.700 When AOC then released a resolution, it was diversity nonsense.

01:20:01.060 It was hiring.

01:20:02.000 It was getting academic scholarships to minorities.

01:20:04.460 And I was like, I don't know what that's all about.

01:20:06.620 The question then is, if you believe that, or the issue, I suppose, is if you believe

01:20:11.180 that democracy is being threatened, and you believe and agree with an institution in which

01:20:16.740 you vote for a representative democratically, and they get an office, if your intention then

01:20:21.000 is to subvert the individual who was put into office, you are a threat to democracy.

01:20:28.100 Do you agree with the system we have where we vote for representatives?

01:20:31.300 I agree with the Constitution, right?

01:20:33.800 And so within that Constitution-

01:20:34.880 Yes, we vote for representatives?

01:20:35.940 Yes, indeed.

01:20:37.520 And that Constitution has clauses.

01:20:38.800 It's not simply that we vote for them, and they do willy-nilly, right?

01:20:41.740 They simply exist in this thing called the government, and they do whatever they want, right?

01:20:45.540 So we have impeachment?

01:20:46.760 Sure.

01:20:47.280 Yeah, yes.

01:20:47.780 We have structures within that, right?

01:20:49.900 And we have laws.

01:20:50.840 And Doge is literally breaking those laws.

01:20:52.980 What laws are they breaking?

01:20:53.760 Sure.

01:20:54.120 Okay, let's talk about it, right?

01:20:55.400 We're changing the subject here now.

01:20:56.960 We're-

01:20:57.740 So let's wrap up-

01:20:59.600 Okay, hold on.

01:20:59.920 So people that voted-

01:21:00.820 Okay, sure.

01:21:01.780 Then let's talk about that, right?

01:21:02.880 So let's talk about veterans.

01:21:04.280 Let's talk about veterans.

01:21:05.060 Well, let's wrap up the last point.

01:21:06.200 Okay.

01:21:06.540 The point of which you asked me is, we have a system in place.

01:21:10.360 People get elected all the time who lie.

01:21:11.900 Politicians lie.

01:21:12.460 Everybody knows it.

01:21:13.220 People vote, hoping that the person will represent to the best of their abilities.

01:21:16.220 This is the system we have, and a lot of people on the left keep saying, our democracy, our

01:21:21.340 democracy, our democracy.

01:21:22.320 It's more of a liberal talking point than a conservative one, because conservatives say

01:21:24.780 constitutional republic all the time.

01:21:26.820 If you would try to upend the administration that was elected by your own system, which

01:21:33.860 you support, you are a threat to democracy.

01:21:36.260 If that administration is upending the constitution, they're a threat to democracy.

01:21:41.700 That's definitionally incorrect.

01:21:43.680 That's not.

01:21:44.360 No, because they're breaking those laws that I'm talking about.

01:21:47.480 So there is a mechanism by which you can remove Donald Trump.

01:21:49.840 It's called impeachment and conviction.

01:21:52.060 If you are trying to obstruct and suspend the will of the democratic system, you're a

01:21:56.660 threat to our democracy.

01:21:58.180 So right now, you can argue the people did not expect Elon to do this, that, or otherwise.

01:22:03.620 The appropriate process would be then, Congress impeaches.

01:22:07.100 Unfortunately, the people also elected a Republican majority, and the Republicans, looking at their

01:22:13.300 constituents and current polling, which they track all year round, are supporting Donald

01:22:17.420 Trump because they want to win again in two years.

01:22:19.600 The indications are there is no popularity in stopping what Trump is doing.

01:22:25.040 Yeah.

01:22:25.340 Well, I think, well, I think currently, certainly, well, it depends on where you go and depends,

01:22:31.900 you know, on Republicans.

01:22:33.520 But again, I'm trying to get to that.

01:22:37.440 Let's talk about these things.

01:22:38.760 OK, so let's talk about veterans, right?

01:22:41.440 Veterans make up about 30 percent, according to this article from The Independent.

01:22:48.600 Veterans make about 30 percent of the nation's federal workforce, right?

01:22:51.580 So they've been disproportionately affected by these firings.

01:22:54.620 So I care about veterans.

01:22:55.680 I'm not sure about you guys, right?

01:22:56.620 Sure.

01:22:56.940 OK.

01:22:57.300 You think the VA does a good job?

01:22:58.640 Hold on.

01:22:59.540 Pull it back.

01:23:00.360 Pull it back.

01:23:00.820 Pull it back.

01:23:01.200 So I care about veterans.

01:23:03.680 I care about what happens to them.

01:23:05.800 I care that veterans come, like, are part of this workforce, are being valuable members

01:23:10.840 of the workforce, and they're suddenly being cut and being told that they're bloat necessarily,

01:23:15.500 right?

01:23:15.800 And so veterans also are more likely to vote for Donald Trump.

01:23:19.140 Here is a collection of veterans who voted for Donald Trump, right?

01:23:22.400 But then, guess what?

01:23:23.900 They got fired.

01:23:25.220 So Nathan Hooven is a disabled Air Force veteran who voted for Donald Trump in November.

01:23:30.040 Uh, Barty, uh, sorry, barely three months later, he now, he's now unemployed and says he feels

01:23:36.060 betrayed by the president's dramatic downsizing the federal government that cost him.

01:23:39.840 Welcome to Finally Caught, a true crime podcast from the hit North American and UK television

01:23:45.420 series.

01:23:46.140 I saw the one girl with her throat cut and her abdomen stabbed and slashed.

01:23:52.180 It's a gruesome sight.

01:23:53.580 Blood stains on the bed wall.

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01:23:57.560 Each episode details a horrific murder and subsequent investigation in order to capture

01:24:02.080 the killer at large.

01:24:03.480 The newly released first season of Finally Caught, available wherever you get your podcasts.

01:24:09.160 Miss Job, right?

01:24:10.120 I have more stories.

01:24:11.600 Uh, uh, James, uh, Stansel, a six-year-old army veteran who was fired last month from Miss

01:24:15.620 Job at a supply technician at the VA hospital in Milwaukee, said it felt like he'd been shot

01:24:20.340 and dumped out of a helicopter.

01:24:21.280 This is ridiculous.

01:24:22.160 This is ridiculous, Brian.

01:24:23.160 Oh, I'm sorry.

01:24:24.260 Hold on.

01:24:24.820 For us to hear the story of veterans, first of all, if you know any veterans, they all

01:24:28.220 hate the VA.

01:24:28.840 One.

01:24:29.380 Two, we know the VA was spending federal money to have orgies.

01:24:34.280 That's literally a thing that came up recently.

01:24:36.480 It was a big controversy.

01:24:37.500 You can Google it if you want.

01:24:38.700 Look up VA orgy.

01:24:40.000 It's crazy stuff, right?

01:24:41.060 So, like, why are we going to be spending money, like, on orgies?

01:24:45.220 That's ridiculous.

01:24:45.880 Hold on.

01:24:46.000 Hold on.

01:24:46.460 Hold on, Brian.

01:24:46.980 One second here.

01:24:47.620 Like, so when I go, when I'm sitting here hearing what you're saying, and you're saying,

01:24:50.900 oh, I can find an anecdotal example of one guy that got fired.

01:24:53.660 That's what you just used, anecdotal examples.

01:24:55.420 Hold on.

01:24:55.440 Hold on.

01:24:55.620 Hey, my friend group.

01:24:56.380 Hold on.

01:24:56.820 My friend group likes those.

01:24:58.040 So, sure.

01:24:58.880 I'm sitting here and I'm talking about mass quantities, right?

01:25:01.840 I voted for this.

01:25:02.960 You were just talking about anecdotal.

01:25:03.860 Everybody that I know voted for this.

01:25:05.400 Oh, everyone you know.

01:25:06.180 Hold on.

01:25:06.240 Hold on.

01:25:06.780 Hold on, Brian.

01:25:07.020 So, when I'm sitting here going, I'm looking, you're finding one example of a guy that fired.

01:25:11.280 I have more examples.

01:25:12.380 You're interrupting me.

01:25:12.900 We can go back to that one second.

01:25:13.920 Okay.

01:25:14.440 Real quick.

01:25:14.800 Let me just finish it.

01:25:15.840 When I'm looking at America as a whole, right, I'm seeing, go, hey, what do you think that

01:25:20.520 cutting the spending looks like, right?

01:25:22.580 This is what it looks like.

01:25:23.900 This is what we voted for.

01:25:25.120 Trump ran on a couple things.

01:25:26.680 He said, close the border.

01:25:27.740 He did that.

01:25:28.500 He said, he's going to try to get out of Ukraine.

01:25:30.700 We got a ceasefire going.

01:25:31.580 He says, he's going to stop.

01:25:32.740 He's going to cut spending.

01:25:33.860 Doge is cutting spending.

01:25:34.960 This is what cutting the bloat looks like.

01:25:37.220 Sometimes people are going to get fired.

01:25:39.060 I'm sorry.

01:25:39.900 Tough tits.

01:25:40.500 The Postmaster General said they could cut 10K jobs and become more efficient, and they've

01:25:45.680 been, like, barely able to stay afloat for a while now.

01:25:48.600 Whenever we're sitting here saying there's 10K jobs that can be cut, that is bloat.

01:25:52.140 That's a lie.

01:25:52.580 I have the source.

01:25:53.540 Hold on.

01:25:53.820 Hold on.

01:25:54.560 Hold on.

01:25:55.280 I have a fact check real quick.

01:25:56.400 Put a pin in.

01:25:57.120 Just don't forget what you're going to say.

01:25:58.560 I asked ChatGPT, do veterans hate the VA?

01:26:01.600 Yes.

01:26:02.240 Yes.

01:26:02.720 Oh, okay.

01:26:03.660 Thank you.

01:26:04.660 ChatGPT says.

01:26:05.540 I appreciate that.

01:26:06.320 But the problem with the – hold on.

01:26:08.020 This is a bit of a distraction, but I'm going to engage it just for a second, right?

01:26:11.400 The problem with the VA, right, is that – hold on.

01:26:14.660 There's a lot of inefficiencies there, right?

01:26:16.660 And there's something that we should deal with.

01:26:18.360 There's a lot of agreement.

01:26:18.940 I'm literally a tech veteran right now that says they hate the VA.

01:26:21.960 Yeah, yeah.

01:26:22.380 But the reason is they use a VA because when they actually get those services, they like

01:26:27.220 those services.

01:26:28.220 Because it's paid for.

01:26:29.360 Yeah, exactly.

01:26:30.080 Everybody likes a free handout.

01:26:31.640 Yeah, exactly.

01:26:32.580 Because people would like their health care to be provided for.

01:26:35.140 I mean, I'm sure that I'd love to buy Snake and Lobster on an EBT card, too.

01:26:38.020 That'd be great.

01:26:38.580 I get it.

01:26:40.020 You're conservative, right?

01:26:41.160 I'm sorry.

01:26:41.180 You can.

01:26:41.780 I know.

01:26:42.200 I get you're conservative.

01:26:43.580 And you don't like a government that cares for its people and does that through health

01:26:50.400 care.

01:26:50.860 I understand that.

01:26:51.600 We're not going to agree on that.

01:26:52.580 So I'm not going to argue with that.

01:26:53.440 Sure.

01:26:53.540 My point is that when they get the actual services, yeah, they like the VA.

01:26:58.980 But in any case, right?

01:26:59.900 When they get them, after they've gotten fucked by the bureaucracy, that's the big threat to

01:27:03.240 a democracy.

01:27:03.500 Oh, yeah.

01:27:03.860 Sure.

01:27:04.100 So I think these stories of veterans are important, right?

01:27:06.300 So we have James Evan, a reservist therapist at the Salem VA.

01:27:10.700 It was fired in February, his eighth month as a probationary worker.

01:27:14.560 Evan said a patient had just told him how much he appreciated his work when he received

01:27:18.400 his email.

01:27:18.960 He had moved from California with his wife, three-year-old son, and a one-year-old daughter

01:27:22.460 for a job that he had long wanted.

01:27:24.460 Even Evan, a 36-year-old Army veteran, was the only one working in his family.

01:27:29.800 He said he feels scared, numb, and angry.

01:27:31.920 I cried, Evan said, about learning about his firing.

01:27:34.640 I haven't done that in a while because you're just kind of free-falling now.

01:27:38.220 You're in an area to where you're not really familiar with and you're just being left out

01:27:43.600 to drive.

01:27:44.160 This is what many of our veterans are feeling.

01:27:46.240 So what are we doing here?

01:27:48.260 How long have the veterans felt left out with the bureaucracy?

01:27:51.100 Yeah, and so you're like, and the way to fix that is to fire them.

01:27:54.560 Yeah, because you fire the bad employees, you get better employees.

01:27:57.300 Are they bad employees?

01:27:58.960 Well, so, you know, my view would be I don't see how a singular story of someone upset over

01:28:07.040 firings has a bearing on the entire system that is being challenged.

01:28:11.540 We have that famous story that just came out this week about this girl that said, literally,

01:28:15.380 I can't believe they fired me for poor performance.

01:28:17.700 I didn't know poor performance was a thing.

01:28:19.200 But my point is there's a meme where it's a person crying and it's a little kid crying

01:28:27.260 and they say, oh, no, the child is crying.

01:28:28.900 Quick, burn the Constitution.

01:28:31.100 What the meme attempts to exemplify is, look, you're not going to go to a conservative especially

01:28:36.340 or a parent and be like, the sad child warrants that you throw away your system.

01:28:41.800 So, a veteran going to the media and saying, something bad happened to me, it's like, okay,

01:28:47.220 the system is broken.

01:28:48.000 Something bad happens to them all the time.

01:28:49.520 The idiocracy.

01:28:50.540 That's the problem.

01:28:51.100 Then we can also say that, well, just because people support-

01:28:53.800 It's democracy.

01:28:54.460 Yeah.

01:28:55.020 Well, also, then it's also democracy if people decide that this isn't what they wanted, right?

01:29:01.700 If in 2026 they vote for Democrats in the House, Donald Trump gets impeached and then convicted

01:29:09.660 in the Senate, I agree.

01:29:10.860 Sure.

01:29:11.240 No one is saying that elections don't have consequences, right?

01:29:14.340 They absolutely do.

01:29:15.240 My point is largely just, right now we are existing in our democratic process, and if

01:29:21.500 there is subversive action taken to stop the current administration and what they're

01:29:25.980 doing, and I'm saying subversive, I'm not saying legal, standard, political stuff,

01:29:30.320 if I'm saying subversive stuff, that's a threat to our democracy.

01:29:32.980 So, for instance, right now what we have is a popular, a president who won the popular

01:29:36.940 vote, who won every swing state, specifically with one of his core projects, Doge, and the

01:29:42.300 firing of bureaucrats, and now we have people on the left protesting, which is fine, but

01:29:47.880 then we have people setting cars on fire, shooting at Tesla vehicles.

01:29:50.260 Crazy stuff.

01:29:50.880 We had a series of swattings last night.

01:29:52.540 Two assassinations of Trump.

01:29:54.300 So, this is the biggest threat to our democracy we face, that when Trump was leading in the polls,

01:29:58.160 they tried to kill him.

01:29:58.840 Like, two people, that's the they, I mean.

01:30:00.380 Okay, well then, agreed.

01:30:01.720 Not a favor for the assassinations, right?

01:30:03.420 Or the arson, or the vandalism.

01:30:05.840 Or the arson, or the vandalism.

01:30:07.340 Hold on.

01:30:07.660 So, right now my point is, the perceived threat to our democracy that you see is the administration

01:30:13.240 doing what it told people it would do.

01:30:15.260 The threat to democracy I see is terrorism from the left.

01:30:18.840 That's a problem.

01:30:19.400 Okay, hold on, hold on.

01:30:20.160 Then we agree, right?

01:30:22.840 We agree that, hey, if you are causing violence and destruction, right, and not, like, you

01:30:28.260 know, illegal, peaceful protest, that you should be in jail, that you are, that's undermining

01:30:32.300 democracy.

01:30:32.700 Okay, if that's your point, then I agree with that.

01:30:35.160 Yeah, so I would say...

01:30:36.640 All right, but that doesn't undermine my point, though, right?

01:30:38.780 So, you're saying that that is a threat to democracy.

01:30:42.040 Understood, right?

01:30:42.780 I wasn't saying that a doge is the threat to democracy, it's simply another threat to

01:30:47.560 democracy, right?

01:30:48.700 But the paradox here is, people voted for it, and the process is playing out as they

01:30:54.840 chose.

01:30:55.360 No, absolutely.

01:30:56.200 No, they didn't.

01:30:56.920 No, they didn't vote for it.

01:30:58.400 No, they didn't.

01:30:59.040 Hold on.

01:30:59.140 What do you think, like, cleaned out the government?

01:31:00.820 There was no...

01:31:01.340 No, hold on, hold on, no, hold on.

01:31:03.020 That's what you can keep saying.

01:31:04.340 What do you think?

01:31:05.380 Actually, yes, what did they think?

01:31:07.460 They thought that, yes, they were cutting...

01:31:09.140 I can't read minds.

01:31:10.080 Yeah, I know, you can't read minds.

01:31:11.920 Elon Musk formed those well before the election.

01:31:14.500 Elon, yes.

01:31:15.340 Trump campaigned on it.

01:31:16.160 Understood.

01:31:16.440 People voted for it.

01:31:17.200 Now it's happening.

01:31:17.640 Yeah, hold on.

01:31:18.240 Saying that we are going to make the government more efficient without details of exactly

01:31:23.940 what that looks like, right?

01:31:25.120 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:31:25.820 We have details.

01:31:27.380 Listen, listen.

01:31:28.500 It was explicit.

01:31:29.900 Drain the Swamp has been a slogan of the Trump campaign going back to 2015.

01:31:33.020 Drain the Swamp means fucking nothing.

01:31:34.560 It means fucking nothing.

01:31:35.340 It means nothing.

01:31:36.520 That's not an argument.

01:31:37.000 Who is the swamp?

01:31:37.540 That's not an argument.

01:31:38.100 Actually, I will make that argument.

01:31:39.380 That's a thought-terminating comment, right?

01:31:43.120 For 10 years, Donald Trump has campaigned on firing people and gutting the bureaucratic

01:31:47.500 state.

01:31:47.900 No, no, no.

01:31:48.400 What does that...

01:31:49.200 Hold on.

01:31:49.420 But what do people actually think about when they consider these things?

01:31:53.400 You're just speculating.

01:31:54.280 I know.

01:31:54.960 Hold on.

01:31:55.380 Exactly.

01:31:55.720 I agree with you.

01:31:57.020 It's speculation because these individuals say, yes, I want the bureaucrat.

01:32:01.280 The bureaucrat has been built up within conservative politics, right?

01:32:04.040 For decades, right?

01:32:04.900 The evil bureaucrat.

01:32:06.040 Yeah, I want them going.

01:32:07.240 But what I don't want is the veteran that I know.

01:32:09.220 I don't want him fired.

01:32:11.180 The point is, Donald Trump ran a campaign for a year.

01:32:17.080 Remember, Elon Musk and his doge are going to fire people.

01:32:23.020 The process is playing out right now.

01:32:25.200 This is not an argument in favor or against.

01:32:27.180 It's what happened.

01:32:28.180 Your argument is you believe that people don't like the way it's happening.

01:32:33.080 We don't actually know that.

01:32:35.180 I have a lot.

01:32:36.000 First of all, I have a poll.

01:32:37.020 I quoted you a poll.

01:32:37.540 You have a poll of how many people, right?

01:32:40.260 We can look up the number of people.

01:32:42.340 It's a poll.

01:32:42.760 Sure can.

01:32:43.400 It's a poll run by a reputable source, Reuters.

01:32:47.480 The poll we have is the election took place.

01:32:50.860 Beyond this—

01:32:51.600 Can you look up the poll, please?

01:32:52.840 I'll pull it up.

01:32:53.180 Whoever does it.

01:32:54.080 Yeah.

01:32:54.440 The point I'm making is we had an election based on this promise to do a certain thing.

01:33:01.920 You are now arguing people do not like the way that thing is happening.

01:33:04.920 I'm saying we don't actually know that, poll or otherwise.

01:33:08.740 Can I just talk about the drain the swamp thing real quick, and then I'll turn it right over to you.

01:33:12.520 This is like—when I hear drain the swamp, and I envision—I don't expect Trump to go in there and try to do this.

01:33:18.040 And not to quote Alex Jones, but I will quote Alex Jones.

01:33:20.460 I know I look like a higher-tee version of him.

01:33:22.540 But he says, hey, I don't expect him to not get shit up to his ankles, right?

01:33:27.280 Like, this is what he's doing.

01:33:28.160 He's going in there.

01:33:29.100 He's getting in there.

01:33:29.900 He's cleaning stuff out.

01:33:30.940 Like, when you're sitting here arguing these things, yeah, I don't like that veterans are having problems, right?

01:33:35.800 It sucks that a veteran got fired or this veteran got fired.

01:33:38.920 But when I hear clean the swamp, I go, hey, look, there's a VA.

01:33:44.380 We have documented examples of the VA using taxpayer dollars to host orgies.

01:33:50.020 Like, that is something that happened, right?

01:33:51.700 That's, like, not even arguable.

01:33:52.960 It's not a debate.

01:33:53.680 And we're going to sit here and go, okay, that trolley should be cleared out.

01:33:57.020 Those people should be fired.

01:33:58.480 So when we're downsizing and we're clearing people out, that's exactly what Americans voted for in masks.

01:34:06.100 Gibbs, if you're talking about people doing something improper at work, those people should get fired.

01:34:10.700 Hold on.

01:34:11.560 Like, if we find out, right, and I'm sure Tim runs a tight organization, right?

01:34:16.140 But we found out that one of his workers, maybe this guy right here.

01:34:18.940 I don't know.

01:34:19.300 I don't want the cut of his jib, right?

01:34:20.680 But maybe if this guy was up to some shady shit, right, the response shouldn't be Tim shuts down his organization,

01:34:27.520 turns it all down, right, because he was like—

01:34:29.160 It might be if he's got a whole organization.

01:34:30.560 This guy was jerking off in the studio just before we came here, right?

01:34:33.940 And Tim sees it.

01:34:35.100 He's like, what the fuck, man, right?

01:34:36.320 And so he's like, well, you know what?

01:34:37.480 I'm going to burn down the organization.

01:34:38.880 The only way to fix this is to burn it all down or to fire half my employees, like the other guy who's, like, doing the coding, right?

01:34:44.200 He needs to get fired, too, because this guy's jerking off.

01:34:46.500 Well, hold on.

01:34:46.840 Control yourself, sir.

01:34:48.160 Maybe.

01:34:48.520 Hold on, hold on.

01:34:49.060 What was your name, sir?

01:34:50.420 What's your name?

01:34:52.660 Maybe he doesn't want us to know that.

01:34:53.760 I'm getting attacked out here, but Kellen.

01:34:55.760 What was it?

01:34:56.320 Kellen.

01:34:56.840 Kellen.

01:34:57.140 All right, so say Mr. Kellen here runs Mr. Poole's newsroom or whatever, right, or a different word, and Mr. Kellen has decided that we're going to have orgies every Friday, and we're going to do it on Tim Poole's dime.

01:35:09.280 Tim's got a wild piece.

01:35:10.060 And then, like, his employees, since this is the work culture, has gone along with it.

01:35:14.220 Guess what?

01:35:15.060 He is absolutely within his right to go, hey, we need to gut all of that and get rid of it.

01:35:18.980 When you're sitting here going, oh, hold on.

01:35:21.440 Hold on.

01:35:21.620 When you're sitting here going, oh, these people didn't vote for this.

01:35:23.640 This is what they've campaigned on.

01:35:26.580 Like, we want this.

01:35:27.620 This is what we want.

01:35:28.600 So let me just draw the distinction here.

01:35:30.280 You're saying if one employee does a bad thing, we shouldn't shut everything down.

01:35:34.640 You're saying, yes, but if the work culture and they're all doing a bad thing, you should.

01:35:38.940 Yeah, I mean, we should take a look.

01:35:40.340 So the question is, to what degree were these agencies doing bad thing?

01:35:45.040 To what degrees were their orgies in the VA?

01:35:46.860 Or inefficiently.

01:35:47.720 Or poor performance.

01:35:48.420 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:35:49.420 Guys, guys, guys, let me ask.

01:35:50.300 Acconelia?

01:35:50.900 If you have a company of 50 people and one guy is doing something untoward, should you

01:35:56.820 shut the whole company down?

01:35:58.160 Just yes or no?

01:35:59.540 One guy is doing a bad thing.

01:36:00.900 Depends on which person it is.

01:36:02.080 If it's the CEO, and maybe.

01:36:04.140 If not, then no, probably not.

01:36:06.040 Even if just a CEO is secretly doing something bad, you should.

01:36:09.060 Okay, but what if it's the owner?

01:36:10.740 Say it's like, say, I own a man.

01:36:13.840 Someone else owns it and is funding it.

01:36:15.680 Then no.

01:36:16.420 If there was a company and literally 70% were doing something untoward, should you

01:36:23.080 shut it down?

01:36:23.920 Yeah, like, if the Catholic church has a multi-decade, probably multi-century track record of abusing

01:36:31.860 You're playing games here.

01:36:33.820 We don't, we're trying to argue a simple.

01:36:35.420 No, no, no, I'm agreeing with you.

01:36:36.660 I'm agreeing with you.

01:36:37.220 Yes, but you're trying to divert.

01:36:38.280 I'm not trying to divert.

01:36:39.260 I'm giving you an example.

01:36:40.060 And when you do something like that, it's intentionally antagonistic and changes the subject.

01:36:42.680 My point is this.

01:36:43.160 I'm not trying to antagonize.

01:36:43.780 We actually completely agree.

01:36:44.880 We all agree that if a company has an overwhelming workforce of corruption, we want to, we're

01:36:49.700 going to shut it down.

01:36:50.480 We may have to just fire all those employees and then start from scratch or leave it a skeleton

01:36:54.740 crew.

01:36:55.220 And we all agree if one person's doing something wrong, then we just fire that person.

01:36:59.600 We don't have to throw the whole thing out.

01:37:00.520 So the real question we're asking is, are the institutions or the offices, the departments

01:37:07.440 that are being gutted, are their whole workforces doing something wrong or is it a small bunch

01:37:12.660 that should be excised?

01:37:13.920 That's the real question we're asking.

01:37:15.500 How we determine that is very difficult.

01:37:18.020 But that's where we're actually going.

01:37:19.980 So your view is the departments are largely broken and corrupt and your view is they're

01:37:24.260 largely not.

01:37:24.600 Well, it's not even just broken and corrupt.

01:37:26.560 Let's just take an organization like, I don't know, say we take the VA, right?

01:37:32.640 Say he guts the VA.

01:37:34.360 Sometimes you need to gut them and get out the poor performers and go to, like, it's

01:37:37.760 like, I'll use actually a better one, USPS, right?

01:37:39.660 We're going to rehire them?

01:37:40.540 Hold on.

01:37:41.340 The postmaster general just said he wants to cut 10K employees and he wants those to help

01:37:45.060 them, right?

01:37:45.380 Now, in my mind, what happens is now you've cut all these employees.

01:37:48.580 You have an excess of funds.

01:37:50.100 What you can do is instead of rehiring them, you might replace them with more qualified

01:37:54.440 people at market value, right?

01:37:56.620 So you can pay the better people that can do twice the work in half the time and pay

01:38:01.640 them more and that's more efficient and that's going to be better.

01:38:04.940 And that's what the Doge is arguing they should be doing in a lot of these cases is cutting

01:38:09.000 poor performers.

01:38:10.100 These people couldn't even answer a five-question thing from Musk.

01:38:13.180 They're sitting here, sitting in, like, troll emails back going, oh, go fuck yourself.

01:38:17.740 I, like, played with myself and I said this.

01:38:19.940 Yeah, because they don't want to go around the tech billion who comes in.

01:38:21.660 You can't sit in a fight.

01:38:23.260 You don't have a performance review?

01:38:24.300 You don't want to job with a performance review?

01:38:26.180 They did have performance reviews.

01:38:27.940 Hold on, hold on.

01:38:28.560 Now it's a new ad then.

01:38:29.560 These individuals literally did have performance reviews.

01:38:32.100 They're being fired for bad performance reviews, but we had these individuals actually

01:38:35.140 show us their past performance reviews and they're excellent.

01:38:38.360 Yeah.

01:38:38.760 Under a corrupt government.

01:38:39.940 Oh, under a corrupt government.

01:38:41.600 Okay, I guess the performance...

01:38:42.760 Sorry.

01:38:43.460 Let's try this.

01:38:44.700 Let's try this.

01:38:46.960 Is there a particular department or institution that you think is being wrongly gutted?

01:38:50.780 Okay, let's talk about it.

01:38:52.360 Let's talk about the CFPB, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, right?

01:38:55.700 So that's pretty much shut down.

01:38:57.700 The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, that's important, right?

01:39:00.040 Consumer Financial Protection is actually working for you, the taxpayer, right?

01:39:03.720 It's working for individuals who are in contact with the financial landscape, right?

01:39:11.500 All these institutions in terms of banks, right?

01:39:13.200 In terms of non-bank entities that also deal with a lot of financial transactions.

01:39:16.640 It is an excellent institution, all right?

01:39:19.640 And what this institution has done, it has returned over its lifetime $21 billion in fraudulent transactions, right?

01:39:28.420 From the big banks, individuals who don't have the resources to actually take these guys on, right?

01:39:34.260 These institutions like, for instance, the credit agencies, right?

01:39:40.560 You don't have that ability.

01:39:42.360 You could have gone to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and they would have helped you out, right?

01:39:46.620 And they did help individuals out.

01:39:48.680 Now, that is no more.

01:39:50.200 That is no more.

01:39:50.780 I mean, so, interesting you brought up the banks, but when was the last time that we had a balanced budget?

01:39:56.960 Do you know?

01:39:57.500 Do you know which person?

01:39:58.320 That's a distraction.

01:39:59.200 Hold on.

01:39:59.300 Yeah, no, no.

01:40:00.220 The idea here is to address his concerns over the threats to democracy and the issue we're bringing up is specific institutions that are being gutted that should not be.

01:40:10.360 Sure, I understand that.

01:40:11.740 And this is where I'm going with it.

01:40:12.800 The last person to do it was Andrew Jackson, right?

01:40:15.660 And so when I look at this –

01:40:16.880 Did you balance the budget?

01:40:18.060 I believe so.

01:40:19.220 We've never balanced the budget.

01:40:20.240 I thought –

01:40:21.580 Yeah, 1837.

01:40:23.020 But, okay.

01:40:23.340 He got rid of national debt.

01:40:25.700 Okay, so then maybe I have incorrect information.

01:40:27.780 Please go ahead.

01:40:28.100 So, anyway, Andrew Jackson got rid of national debt in 1837, right?

01:40:32.000 Now, okay, he didn't like the banks.

01:40:33.400 You brought the banks.

01:40:34.020 I'm not a huge fan.

01:40:34.940 Listen, sure, maybe the – what was it?

01:40:36.280 The CFPB?

01:40:37.720 CFPB.

01:40:38.060 Sure.

01:40:38.380 All right, cool.

01:40:39.060 You know what?

01:40:39.520 I'll even grant you one.

01:40:40.440 Here's one that I wish Elon would clear out, like the ATF.

01:40:43.080 We haven't gutted the ATF.

01:40:44.260 I think that would be a big fan, like all the conservatives.

01:40:46.380 We got questions.

01:40:46.920 When you're saying there's – yeah, are there organizations that maybe he's given a look at and, you know, maybe they are good?

01:40:52.700 Sure.

01:40:52.980 Sometimes there's going to be hiccups.

01:40:54.700 That's a given when you have these, like, massive bureaucracies that have existed for 20, 30 years unchecked.

01:41:01.900 I'm not going to argue that there's not going to be hiccups.

01:41:04.260 Oh, absolutely.

01:41:04.880 But on the flip side, you can't sit here and go point at every little hiccup and be like, nothing good is coming from this.

01:41:12.080 Let's address the CFPB real quick.

01:41:14.080 So here's what I pulled up.

01:41:15.740 The CFPB operates independently from Congress, getting its funding from the Federal Reserve instead of annual congressional appropriations.

01:41:22.240 That was to protect it.

01:41:22.900 This has led to lawsuits and accusations that it lacks oversight.

01:41:25.720 Yeah, from the banks.

01:41:26.840 Critics claim that CFPB enforces regulations selectively, often targeting businesses and banks while ignoring fraud from politically favored groups.

01:41:33.200 Interesting.

01:41:33.560 Many believe CFPB imposes excessive and burdensome rules on financial institutions, hurting small business and limiting consumer choice.

01:41:40.220 The CFPB faced multiple scandals, including allegations of discrimination in hiring and wasteful spending on luxury office renovations.

01:41:46.500 However, progressives and consumer advocacy groups defend the CFPB, arguing it protects consumers from predatory financial practices.

01:41:52.740 The agency remains one of the most controversial in the federal government.

01:41:55.300 Yeah.

01:41:55.480 OK, let's see what the CFPB actually has been doing.

01:41:57.700 OK, CFPB closes overdraft loophole to save American billions and fees, right?

01:42:02.400 Like, like, banks overdrafting people to have, like, there's all kinds of ways that banks can increase their fees through overdraft.

01:42:09.160 Yeah, Wells Fargo's kept at three now.

01:42:11.320 Yeah.

01:42:11.760 Three what?

01:42:12.420 Overdraft fees.

01:42:13.160 They, like, Wells Fargo, for example, if you have, say I have a charge go through and they-

01:42:17.260 They can overdraft you three times?

01:42:18.360 Yeah, for $30.

01:42:19.200 BS.

01:42:19.960 That's what the CFPB actually fought against.

01:42:22.260 Overdraft fees should be banned and illegal.

01:42:25.320 Yeah, so you- but it has to be for different charges.

01:42:27.140 So, like, if I, like, got a negative account, it would be $35, and then it would be the next one, say, like, a Twitch payment went through or something, then they would charge me another $30.

01:42:34.220 Or they would-

01:42:34.720 They'll cap it at three.

01:42:35.740 Or don't let a credit card clear if there's no money in the account.

01:42:39.380 How about that?

01:42:40.120 They know this.

01:42:41.240 100%.

01:42:41.760 100%.

01:42:42.260 These banks are full.

01:42:43.040 Something else that they would do, right, is that, like, they would rearrange the numbers.

01:42:47.540 So, like, let's say if, like, at first, like, the first charge wouldn't overdraft, but the next one did, right, they would switch it.

01:42:55.540 So, the one that overdraft, like, the bigger charge would come in first, right, and then you would have two overdraft fees, right?

01:43:01.260 So, the other one that didn't overdraft at first, that switched.

01:43:04.500 So, now they get two cracks at you rather than one.

01:43:07.800 That's the thing that banks are doing.

01:43:09.320 The CFPB actively, directly targeted that, right?

01:43:13.580 CFPB sues Experian for sham investigations of credit report errors, right?

01:43:17.840 So, people would go to Experian, right, a credit agency, and we know you need credit, the importance of that, right?

01:43:22.400 They would go and say, hey, I've got an error on my file, right?

01:43:26.420 I need you to take a look at this, right?

01:43:27.780 The CFPB would say, oh, yeah, we're going to get right on it, right?

01:43:30.560 Type, type, type, type, type.

01:43:31.480 But it turns out they didn't actually do it, right?

01:43:33.360 And then, and they'd be gaslighting people, right?

01:43:36.740 The CFPB sued them for that.

01:43:38.200 The CFPB proposes a rule to ban contact clauses, or contract clauses to strip away fundamental freedoms.

01:43:46.940 So, there are, a rule would forbid fine print that seeks to censor speech or wipe away a try and write.

01:43:53.840 So, basically, like, if you're a bank, right, and you're saying that I want, I want to keep you from doing whatever, right?

01:44:01.460 You're just going to put some, like, bullshit clause in the contract, right?

01:44:05.060 It doesn't actually have to do with delivering the services.

01:44:06.860 Hey, you can't do that, right?

01:44:08.780 CFPB finalizes a rule to remove medical bills from credit reports, right?

01:44:13.960 So, because medical bills, massive amount of the debt within our country, right?

01:44:18.680 Removing that from your credit report.

01:44:20.140 So, having some sort of medical bill, a payment, doesn't destroy you in your ability to work or to find a place to work, right?

01:44:27.880 Or to live.

01:44:29.100 CFPB.

01:44:29.520 Is that a good thing that they're removing that from the credit reports?

01:44:32.640 Like credit reports?

01:44:33.320 Absolutely.

01:44:33.580 I don't know if I agree that that's a dissimilar.

01:44:34.880 So, let's do this, because we do only have about 20 minutes.

01:44:38.120 Let's say, let's just start from this point.

01:44:40.760 CFPB, for the sake of argument, is the greatest organization we have in government.

01:44:45.080 Let's just agree that it's fantastic.

01:44:46.720 It has 1,758 staff members.

01:44:49.820 Currently, they're facing reductions.

01:44:51.480 A judge is barring that.

01:44:53.200 USAID has over 10,000 staff.

01:44:55.280 It's been cut down to 294.

01:44:57.360 What are your thoughts on USAID?

01:44:58.960 Should it be left untouched?

01:45:02.480 Should DOGE have not gone in?

01:45:03.300 What do you think?

01:45:04.400 Well, DOGE should not have gone in.

01:45:06.200 Should the American government have gone in and—

01:45:10.180 DOGE is.

01:45:10.780 It's the U.S. Digital Service.

01:45:11.580 You can say this, Prime, but if they were going to go in, they would have already done it.

01:45:15.440 DOGE is the United States Digital Service.

01:45:17.920 They call it DOGE for fun.

01:45:19.180 They renamed it.

01:45:19.640 Yeah, they renamed it.

01:45:20.280 Indeed.

01:45:20.340 So, these are U.S. government employees who went in.

01:45:22.220 Sure.

01:45:22.700 Yeah, hon, I understand that.

01:45:24.940 But DOGE is doing that in an unconstitutional manner.

01:45:28.300 The manner in which they do it actually—

01:45:30.680 Hold on.

01:45:31.360 I don't believe the Constitution actually discusses—

01:45:33.780 Addresses DOGE.

01:45:34.780 Yeah.

01:45:35.300 No.

01:45:35.640 Or these issues.

01:45:36.380 Of course.

01:45:36.840 First of all—

01:45:37.900 I mean, the technicality of, like, whether or not Congress or there should be judicial

01:45:41.020 review.

01:45:41.320 The technicality of a judicial review—or, sorry, you mean appointment.

01:45:45.380 You mean appointment.

01:45:45.860 The Constitution doesn't directly—

01:45:46.760 You mean appointment review.

01:45:47.620 Like, the Congress appointing a person to actually do this.

01:45:52.020 The point is, you said, they're going in unconstitutionally.

01:45:55.040 Okay.

01:45:55.220 I don't believe the issue of interagency terminations and finance is an issue of the Constitution.

01:46:02.820 Actually, it is.

01:46:03.640 It's 100%.

01:46:04.480 That's what I've been—

01:46:05.080 What part of the Constitution?

01:46:05.860 Let me—

01:46:06.480 Tim, I've been trying to drive to this point for, like, an hour.

01:46:08.640 All right?

01:46:08.920 Please let me do that.

01:46:09.780 Yeah, what part of the Constitution?

01:46:10.240 Okay, I'm going to do it?

01:46:10.860 Okay, right, right.

01:46:11.520 So, the Constitution says that Congress is in charge of the purse.

01:46:14.840 The Congress is in charge of distributing funds, right?

01:46:17.260 Deciding where those funds go.

01:46:18.320 The executive executes that, right?

01:46:21.720 And so, what's happening is that this group of individuals goes in and they are making cuts, right?

01:46:29.920 But, as we're looking at how these things work previously, right, in terms of looking at the contracts and stuff, like, there are obligations, right, designed by Congress.

01:46:39.480 Congress says, we're going to spend this amount of money, right, to hire individuals, to make this infrastructure improvement, right?

01:46:46.020 The president does not have the ability to simply decide, I'm not going to do that, right?

01:46:51.140 You're actually wrong.

01:46:52.160 Well, yeah.

01:46:52.780 Through the Impoundment Act, the Impoundment Act of 1974, right, there is a process to do that.

01:46:58.580 There is a process for the president to say, I'd like to delay or possibly cancel this money, right?

01:47:07.940 So, that's a process that he could use.

01:47:10.080 That is not doge.

01:47:11.560 That is not doge.

01:47:12.400 The challenge at hand over the constitutionality is that Article 2, Section 1 says the executive power shall be vested in the president of the United States.

01:47:18.480 He shall close his office, et cetera, et cetera.

01:47:20.500 Sole executive power is held by the president.

01:47:23.280 We've had this strange phenomenon in this country.

01:47:25.240 So, one, USAID is operating under the executive branch, meaning Congress can apportion funding to USAID and the executive branch has control over what it does.

01:47:33.720 Meaning, you can put the funding there, Trump can say you're all fired.

01:47:36.380 The issue then with checks and balances would be the judiciary needs to step in to make a determination as to whether or not this is being operated correctly.

01:47:44.040 But it is within Trump's purview to do this.

01:47:46.200 The check would be now if the courts agree or disagree.

01:47:48.640 No, they can –

01:47:49.380 It is constitutional.

01:47:50.200 No, no.

01:47:50.620 Absolutely.

01:47:51.020 No, it's not constitutional.

01:47:52.460 We have plenty of –

01:47:53.160 We have plenty of challenges.

01:47:55.460 Yeah, yeah.

01:47:56.240 Well, hold on.

01:47:56.600 You're just putting up –

01:47:57.940 Constitution.

01:47:59.260 Hold on.

01:47:59.820 No, but it's not.

01:48:00.620 You're simply stating that it's constitutional.

01:48:02.040 But we have actually legal experts saying that's not constitutional.

01:48:04.080 But they keep –

01:48:04.620 So they would happen to no better.

01:48:05.880 I'm going to pause you again.

01:48:07.600 USAID operates under the executive branch for which the president has sole authority.

01:48:10.840 Yeah.

01:48:11.440 So?

01:48:12.340 So that means the president has the constitutional authority as he oversees these departments as how they operate.

01:48:18.220 The president –

01:48:19.000 The president can't –

01:48:20.020 Congress can apportion.

01:48:21.020 And then what is going to happen right now is the judiciary will engage in what's called a check on the executive branch to make a determination about whether or not –

01:48:31.080 Yeah, and they're literally doing that right now.

01:48:32.900 But this is the point.

01:48:35.260 This is literally the heart of it, okay?

01:48:36.960 The heart of what we're talking about.

01:48:38.840 So, yes, they operate under the executive branch.

01:48:42.780 But that doesn't mean that, like, when Congress says you have to use this money for this thing and this thing doesn't get done, that that's okay, right?

01:48:50.860 That is impounding – that's violating the Impoundment Act.

01:48:55.640 So what we –

01:48:56.280 Prod, do you agree the judicial system has to decide what's constitutional, though?

01:48:59.460 Hold on.

01:48:59.920 Hold on.

01:49:00.540 They're literally in the process.

01:49:01.700 We have plaintiff court cases.

01:49:02.880 But we have the winning cases.

01:49:03.740 We have the right.

01:49:04.460 No, they're not.

01:49:05.200 They're losing cases.

01:49:06.400 I'll give you cases.

01:49:07.120 Hold on.

01:49:07.680 I'm not –

01:49:08.220 I don't care.

01:49:09.120 I'm sorry.

01:49:09.340 I don't care about this right now.

01:49:10.060 Hold on.

01:49:10.280 I got to focus.

01:49:11.180 This is the point.

01:49:11.720 We have a limited amount of time left.

01:49:13.020 This is the point.

01:49:14.700 Congress has said that we have a certain amount of funds that we are going to be used for these processes to build this infrastructure.

01:49:21.200 You can't just close down this agency and say, that's what we're not going to do.

01:49:24.740 We have money for the FAA, right?

01:49:27.720 For safety checks or whatever the fuck, right?

01:49:31.980 That money has to be used for that.

01:49:33.720 So, yes, he can fire those individuals, right, that you were saying before.

01:49:35.880 But then he has to somehow actually accomplish that task, right?

01:49:39.360 So the point is to have new safety upgrades to our planes, right?

01:49:42.860 Those safety upgrades have to happen unless he actually goes through the process.

01:49:46.660 And there is a process, right, a process he's used before in his first term where he can cancel those expenditures.

01:49:53.540 He's not doing that.

01:49:54.660 And this is why.

01:49:55.240 Hold on.

01:49:56.200 Final thing.

01:49:56.940 Final thing.

01:49:57.380 Final thing.

01:49:57.720 But you're wrong.

01:49:58.740 Okay.

01:49:59.320 I looked it up.

01:49:59.500 The president gets a one-fiscal-year delay of spending at his own discretion, and Congress can – unless Congress – yeah, the president can temporarily – it's called the deferral.

01:50:12.060 So the president cannot rescind fundings, but he can for one-fiscal-year defer payment for policy reasons.

01:50:17.240 Well, I want to add to this real quick.

01:50:19.280 So Prime keeps making the claim that it's unconstitutional, right?

01:50:21.600 There's been a ton of lawsuits, right?

01:50:23.040 First, they – we could go into the dates.

01:50:25.440 I have them, and we could go into which.

01:50:26.600 But first, they argued that he couldn't get full-access data, so that wasn't cool.

01:50:29.920 Doge won that case.

01:50:30.900 They said that they were not allowed to exist at all.

01:50:33.800 Then they were – okay, Doge was formed as a reconstructed tent position to be disbanded by July 4, 2026, and reformed of the Obama agency, so it's allowed to operate.

01:50:40.940 They won that case.

01:50:41.900 USA was – freeze was put in place.

01:50:43.940 They won that case.

01:50:45.200 Admin said that Doge has to be backed by Trump's opponent heads of each department on the left.

01:50:49.800 So, yeah, they've won all of these.

01:50:51.100 Doge also just lost the case because this agency that's supposed to be the most transparent agency we've ever had, right, also wants to be exempt from a FOIA request.

01:51:00.740 They just lost the case in terms of that, in terms of a judge saying, no, you are subject to that.

01:51:05.500 You have to actually respond to this FOIA request, right?

01:51:07.840 There are other cases as well.

01:51:09.320 But hold on.

01:51:09.920 Before we get distracted with that, right, which doesn't actually fucking matter in terms of the point that I'm trying to make here, right,

01:51:14.920 in terms of having processes to defer, if it's a simple deferral, right, okay, but then what happens after?

01:51:22.940 Are we hiring – are we rehiring the CFPB, right?

01:51:26.260 Bro, please.

01:51:28.480 One of the conditions of deferral is, quote, to achieve savings through efficiency.

01:51:32.200 That's hilarious.

01:51:32.520 If spending can be delayed to reduce costs to increase efficiency, the president can defer funds.

01:51:36.380 You're talking about empowerment.

01:51:37.840 Yes.

01:51:38.340 Yeah, that's part of –

01:51:39.080 So this means what he's doing is allowed under the empowerment.

01:51:41.220 No, because there's a process to do this, right?

01:51:43.120 For instance, if he wants to cancel a payment, he has –

01:51:45.800 It's called deferral.

01:51:46.780 Yeah, I know.

01:51:47.780 And he's not even doing that.

01:51:48.760 Hold on.

01:51:49.260 Yeah, I know he's not.

01:51:49.980 I'm saying –

01:51:50.580 Bro, I'm just saying I looked up the law that you cited.

01:51:52.400 Yeah, you're not looking – I looked up – don't worry, because I looked up the law that I cited.

01:51:56.580 So I know what I'm talking about.

01:51:57.880 Unless otherwise specifically provided by law.

01:51:59.820 Yes, I'm saying, but he's not –

01:52:00.880 The president can legally withhold the funds for one fiscal year.

01:52:02.960 Yes, but he's not doing – yes, I get that.

01:52:04.520 The law allows you to do this, right?

01:52:06.880 But how does it allow you to do that?

01:52:08.160 You have to follow a process.

01:52:09.800 And he's not actually doing that.

01:52:10.800 And it involves consulting Congress.

01:52:13.120 So there is a – like, for instance, there is a – to cancel those funds, it's a simple majority.

01:52:19.700 A simple majority that you can get through Congress.

01:52:22.320 But he's not actually going through Congress.

01:52:24.140 Why is he not actually going through Congress?

01:52:25.420 He doesn't need to go through Congress.

01:52:26.260 But he does.

01:52:27.200 That's the law.

01:52:27.920 That's what I'm talking about.

01:52:28.700 So when I say it's unconstitutional, when I'm saying it's breaking the law, that means, hey, you're not following the law.

01:52:33.240 If you're going through another process you just made up, that would be breaking the law.

01:52:36.840 That's the entire point.

01:52:38.080 Aren't you following this, Gibbs?

01:52:39.140 Hold on.

01:52:39.440 No, I disagree here.

01:52:40.760 Let me just –

01:52:41.080 Okay, no, no, no.

01:52:41.740 A fair point.

01:52:42.440 For deferral, the president sends a message to Congress for which they reject, modify, or approve.

01:52:48.120 And it's a freeze of one year.

01:52:50.080 I do think it's fair to say that Trump is not actually deferring anything.

01:52:52.500 And the issue then is we are in a, to be fair, constitutionally nebulous position of Trump firing people isn't legally rescission or deferral.

01:53:03.920 So, okay.

01:53:04.660 The argument would be that it is their argument that it's not.

01:53:09.140 Well, so let me just – I want to examine another portion of this because we've only got a few minutes left.

01:53:13.400 But we'll – just real quick.

01:53:14.700 So Doge right now, which has said – and this has been controversial this last week.

01:53:20.320 It estimates that the government had 4.6 million credit cards and 90 million unique transactions in the fiscal year 2024.

01:53:26.520 All right, I've worked for several companies that have given me a company credit card, right?

01:53:30.740 And I've had to answer with a receipt every time I spent money on that card.

01:53:34.820 But you're telling me with 4.6 million credit cards issued that there is not potential for waste in there and then we need to go in there and look it up and see.

01:53:43.260 And, okay, now, hold on.

01:53:44.460 I get that you're saying it's been appointed.

01:53:46.820 This money has been appointed.

01:53:48.200 But say there's money that's been appointed for the credit cards and we find out they're spending it buying T-bone steaks every night with the misses.

01:53:56.180 Like, guess what?

01:53:57.260 Yeah, the money might have been in proportion for these credit cards, but it's being misused.

01:54:01.800 And it's not unconstitutional to reassess these things, which is what Doge is doing.

01:54:07.240 And we don't have oversight.

01:54:09.300 Doge is the oversight.

01:54:10.680 It's not the oversight.

01:54:11.520 No, it's not the oversight.

01:54:12.880 You just don't like that Trump and Elon are at the top.

01:54:16.160 That's your big problem.

01:54:17.300 No, it's not.

01:54:17.940 Because they're the ones providing the oversight.

01:54:18.720 It's not that, right?

01:54:19.160 Because I didn't like Joe Biden either, right?

01:54:21.200 Sure.

01:54:21.640 I dislike most of the politicians.

01:54:24.100 I mean, I think everybody does.

01:54:25.340 But that in itself is not the reason.

01:54:27.360 It doesn't matter if I like them or not.

01:54:28.540 It doesn't matter if it's legal or it's constitutional.

01:54:30.460 That's the thing I'm examining, right?

01:54:31.740 So I don't give a fuck if Joe Biden or a Donald Trump happens to be on top.

01:54:36.120 I'm examining the actions.

01:54:37.980 They're following the oversight.

01:54:39.100 No, they're not following the oversight.

01:54:40.940 Okay, so you're not actually even – you're literally not even listening, right?

01:54:44.100 I am listening.

01:54:44.600 You're just wrong.

01:54:45.660 Okay, you don't know – you don't – tell me about the Empowerment Act.

01:54:49.140 Tell me about it.

01:54:49.600 I don't know.

01:54:49.900 I mean, I often have to have it off the top of my head.

01:54:51.700 I don't have that information.

01:54:52.360 You don't know.

01:54:52.780 I mean, you didn't have the information for the other thing.

01:54:54.220 You don't know.

01:54:55.200 Yeah, you don't know.

01:54:56.520 Yeah, you don't know.

01:54:57.320 So, okay, let's –

01:54:58.440 I mean, based off what he's just read, I mean, it sounds like he's doing fine.

01:55:01.640 No, he literally just said, hey, actually, there is a process here.

01:55:05.180 He's not following the process.

01:55:06.060 I'm not talking about deferral.

01:55:07.080 What I'm talking about is –

01:55:08.520 That's what we're talking about.

01:55:08.900 Congress appoints the funds.

01:55:10.020 I got to –

01:55:10.400 Trump is the head of the executive.

01:55:11.640 He decides how those funds are –

01:55:12.820 Trump has not deferred or rescinded any funds.

01:55:15.240 Do we disagree with this statement?

01:55:16.800 Trump has not deferred or rescinded any funds.

01:55:19.160 So, Congress approves funds, correct?

01:55:21.020 Yes.

01:55:21.420 Okay.

01:55:21.840 Tell me when I'm wrong.

01:55:23.280 Trump decides as the head of the executive how those funds, once they're allocated for

01:55:29.100 a certain thing, are to be used.

01:55:30.460 Is that correct?

01:55:31.160 Technically, you're 50-50.

01:55:33.020 Congress can allocate funds for a specific use.

01:55:35.940 Trump then determines how to go about that process.

01:55:39.420 So, it's a mix.

01:55:41.360 Congress says, here's $100 million specifically to grow strawberries.

01:55:44.620 Trump can say, okay, we got to go strawberries.

01:55:46.840 Hire me 10 people.

01:55:47.960 Send them to California and grow strawberries.

01:55:50.680 So, okay.

01:55:51.200 Yeah, that's my point.

01:55:52.120 So, Trump has discretion on how that money is spent to an extent, right?

01:55:55.740 To the extent that it's been approved.

01:55:57.240 Okay.

01:55:57.760 So, when he's sitting here gutting an agency, there's no – especially when it could be

01:56:01.800 in the fiscal year still, there's no reason for me to go, oh, it's unconstitutional.

01:56:05.680 Say he guts USA.

01:56:07.040 He could hire new people.

01:56:08.480 He could spend that money differently.

01:56:09.900 There's no reason why it's unconstitutional.

01:56:11.940 But, real quick, you made this point, and I think you're in agreement.

01:56:15.000 You said so long as what was apportioned by Congress gets done, right?

01:56:20.840 Yes.

01:56:21.200 So, Trump has to find a way to do the thing Congress says that has to be done.

01:56:23.960 Yeah, exactly.

01:56:24.620 Okay.

01:56:24.980 That would change the calculations.

01:56:26.980 If that does happen.

01:56:27.500 We don't know what he's going to do.

01:56:28.500 Hold on.

01:56:28.920 But right now, yes, we don't have a plan for that.

01:56:31.400 Actually, we don't.

01:56:32.060 Well, he probably doesn't.

01:56:32.500 And he's saying he's going to close down the Department of Education, right?

01:56:35.800 If that spending has been approved, right?

01:56:39.540 And it takes an act of Congress to actually close that down anyway, Trey, right?

01:56:43.060 And which is the point that I'm talking about.

01:56:44.540 Has he?

01:56:45.360 You have to – no, but he's working.

01:56:46.980 He's actively saying he's working.

01:56:48.100 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

01:56:49.180 Has he shut down any department?

01:56:51.000 Has any department been shut down?

01:56:52.000 Well, CFPB.

01:56:53.080 But it's an agency.

01:56:54.200 That's an agency, not a department.

01:56:55.320 Yeah, so nothing's been shut down.

01:56:57.060 Well, the CFPB.

01:56:58.460 No, no, no.

01:56:58.800 And the USAID.

01:56:59.760 Of the congressionally approved funds.

01:57:02.100 Of – what do you mean, Trey?

01:57:03.240 So of the things that Congress has mandated to be done, has Trump shut those things down?

01:57:07.080 If there's no workers to execute those things, then yes, they've been shut down.

01:57:09.860 So the answer is they have not been.

01:57:11.540 Hold on.

01:57:12.180 Then how would they – okay.

01:57:13.660 So the Congress appropriates – like we're going to send this amount of aid to Nigeria or whatever, right?

01:57:18.760 And there's no workers to actually send that –

01:57:20.000 It's not USAID.

01:57:22.060 Just go with me, right?

01:57:23.660 And there's no workers to actually execute that.

01:57:26.820 Well, then how has that not been canceled?

01:57:28.560 Okay, full stop.

01:57:28.920 We're not talking about hypotheticals.

01:57:30.240 The question was, has Trump actually shut any of these things down?

01:57:33.880 Shut any of these things down?

01:57:35.400 Are you talking about a contract or operations?

01:57:36.920 Anything that Congress has mandated to be done, has Trump ordered shut down completely?

01:57:40.880 Yeah.

01:57:41.360 Well, hold on.

01:57:42.880 Because –

01:57:43.200 Is it yes or no?

01:57:43.840 I don't know.

01:57:44.100 Don't get mad.

01:57:44.440 No, no.

01:57:44.600 Because you're moving this around.

01:57:47.220 I'm not at all.

01:57:47.620 Okay.

01:57:47.860 I'm asking you.

01:57:48.640 Sure.

01:57:49.300 If you're talking about in terms of what –

01:57:52.140 Oh, no, no, no.

01:57:52.720 Stop.

01:57:52.960 I'm not if.

01:57:53.560 The CFPB has been shut down.

01:57:54.740 I've already said that before.

01:57:55.680 Okay.

01:57:55.940 Now, thank you for finally answering.

01:57:57.440 I said that before.

01:57:58.160 Okay.

01:57:58.720 And you said it's not a department.

01:58:00.100 It's an agency.

01:58:01.680 Now, my follow-up question is, did Congress apportion funds for the specific task of CFPB

01:58:06.280 to engage in certain practices?

01:58:08.960 Yes.

01:58:10.060 Okay.

01:58:10.320 So the issue then is, one, was CFPB actually shut down?

01:58:14.820 It has not been.

01:58:15.940 A judge has blocked that, although it's fair to say Trump wants to.

01:58:19.420 Yeah.

01:58:20.320 A whistleblower is now testifying that they still want to do it.

01:58:23.620 However, it's been –

01:58:24.940 That would be the – so the Unconstitutional Act would be –

01:58:27.640 Hey, and he follows the law.

01:58:28.960 He follows the court's decisions when they do it.

01:58:30.720 Yeah.

01:58:31.120 So if shutting it down would be the thing that's the problem that I'm against, if you're saying

01:58:36.440 that a court stopped him from doing the bad thing, well, then I agree with the court,

01:58:40.080 but I still have a problem with the bad thing.

01:58:42.020 So it doesn't invalidate anything that I just said.

01:58:43.780 No.

01:58:43.980 Congress did not apportion funds for CFPB.

01:58:47.080 In terms of – from the Treasury.

01:58:49.320 We already talked about this.

01:58:50.640 Congress did not appropriate funds for CFPB.

01:58:52.460 Yeah, yeah.

01:58:53.080 But it shut them down.

01:58:54.080 That's why I thought you said it wasn't a department because you were specifically

01:58:56.280 mentioning that Congress doesn't fund it.

01:58:57.500 No, no.

01:58:57.820 But it's funded indirectly.

01:58:59.900 Well, we mentioned this at the very start.

01:59:01.460 We were talking about the funding of the CFPB, right?

01:59:02.940 CFPB has a special way of funding it, right?

01:59:05.460 But the –

01:59:06.980 The funding method has been challenged because it's constitutional.

01:59:10.060 Yeah.

01:59:10.460 From the banks.

01:59:11.260 Yeah.

01:59:11.420 They've been trying to –

01:59:12.020 The banks that have been trying to be – have been regulated, right?

01:59:15.260 That's good.

01:59:15.500 They don't like it.

01:59:16.400 And so they've been challenging it on all grounds.

01:59:18.420 All right.

01:59:18.700 Let's just slow down.

01:59:19.540 I'm trying to just – we're trying to get to the truth here.

01:59:21.060 Sure.

01:59:21.880 So when I asked, and you said CFPB is an agency not a department,

01:59:24.600 I thought you were – the point you were trying to make contextually was

01:59:27.260 this one may be shut down but doesn't qualify because Congress didn't apportion funds for it.

01:59:32.180 No.

01:59:32.460 The question was if Congress says –

01:59:34.160 Congress created it.

01:59:34.440 If Congress says this money is for this thing, Trump must have that thing happen.

01:59:39.080 He controls how that thing does happen, but it has to happen.

01:59:42.680 CFPB is not given funds by Congress, which has been challenged, so it's nebulous.

01:59:47.460 This is hard to adjudicate.

01:59:49.760 Okay.

01:59:50.380 Fine.

01:59:50.880 Sure.

01:59:51.540 I disagree that it's any different in terms of how our government actually works, but we

01:59:58.380 can just move on to USAID.

02:00:00.280 If USAID is getting its funds directly from Congress, then it counts for USAID, right?

02:00:06.020 Or any other department.

02:00:07.920 It's literally the same principle.

02:00:09.420 But if you want to talk about the technicality because, again, yes, the CFPB is protected

02:00:13.160 because they didn't – when it was created, it was hit.

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02:00:47.020 It was structured in a way so it couldn't easily be shut down.

02:00:50.600 Apparently, that was wrong.

02:00:51.480 Well, if you go through an unconstitutional manner, of course, you can easily shut it

02:00:54.340 down.

02:00:54.800 In any case.

02:00:55.420 So if he totally guts USAID and puts like Trump aid in there instead or whatever, I'm

02:01:01.420 just making something up, and it does the exact same job, like wouldn't that fulfill

02:01:05.520 the obligation to spend the money on that thing?

02:01:09.020 Yeah, it might.

02:01:09.920 So then it's not unconstitutional.

02:01:11.540 We got it.

02:01:12.300 If, hon –

02:01:12.920 You can replace it with something.

02:01:13.960 If it's – will it be replaced?

02:01:15.720 I mean –

02:01:16.080 Maybe.

02:01:17.020 The point here was to shrink the government.

02:01:19.960 So what you're telling me now is that now they're not going to shrink the government.

02:01:22.360 It's to make it more efficient.

02:01:23.140 No, no, no, no.

02:01:23.940 Like to shrink the federal government.

02:01:25.580 They've talked about that many times.

02:01:26.880 I'm not going to bullshit that, okay?

02:01:28.160 So it's not about replacing this with something else, right?

02:01:32.300 That's one thing.

02:01:33.160 A more efficient thing.

02:01:33.480 Yeah, yeah.

02:01:33.900 But they're not doing that.

02:01:34.980 So stop making that up.

02:01:36.120 So I think – I'll just give my final thoughts.

02:01:39.520 Largely, when we say things like if a department has one bad person, don't gut it.

02:01:43.500 If a department has a mass majority of corruption, gut it.

02:01:47.460 The issue is largely just how we see the world in these institutions.

02:01:51.300 And it's why I believe that there's not going to be reconciliation.

02:01:55.880 There's not going to be a coming together of either side.

02:01:58.020 And my view, especially reading now about CFPB, is I was – I'm learning a lot here as Doge does its thing.

02:02:06.840 Notably that Congress has created extra constitutionally agencies.

02:02:11.080 What I mean by extra – outside of the confines of the Constitution, they have created agencies that are independent of the government.

02:02:18.160 The excuse they made in the 70s when they started creating these things, not all of them but some of them, was that they should be free from political influence.

02:02:24.580 But do you know what that means?

02:02:25.340 It means it's outside of democracy.

02:02:26.920 The CFPB was intentionally done this way.

02:02:29.820 It operates outside of the executive branch and Congress, which is shockingly insane, as does the Federal Reserve.

02:02:36.520 Tim, do you –

02:02:37.140 This is not democracy.

02:02:38.000 This is terrifying.

02:02:38.320 Leave that for the inspector general's office, right?

02:02:40.040 We shouldn't have inspector generals who are independent from like –

02:02:43.320 Political processes.

02:02:44.660 No.

02:02:45.440 You don't think the inspector general –

02:02:47.400 No one should be independent from politics.

02:02:49.920 Politics is the marketplace by which people –

02:02:51.840 Amen.

02:02:52.180 That's judiciary, right?

02:02:53.340 Like the Supreme Court is supposed to be independent from politics, right?

02:02:56.400 That's why they have the left time –

02:02:57.480 No, they're not.

02:02:58.120 That is not correct.

02:02:58.840 Of course they are.

02:02:59.460 Hold on.

02:02:59.780 What do you mean?

02:03:00.580 Absolutely.

02:03:00.760 So only –

02:03:01.440 They are independent –

02:03:02.420 So you're making a semantic argument.

02:03:03.580 Sorry.

02:03:03.920 Okay.

02:03:04.100 Supreme Court justices don't get elected.

02:03:05.620 They get appointed.

02:03:06.460 They get appointed.

02:03:06.800 The president of the executive branch will appoint and Congress must approve.

02:03:10.060 Isn't that the inspector general's as well?

02:03:11.580 They get appointed?

02:03:12.480 They don't just appear out of the –

02:03:13.480 The point is we have three branches.

02:03:15.680 The judiciary is not free from politics.

02:03:18.300 They have to –

02:03:18.840 A president gets elected and most people actually vote solely on the Supreme Court justices.

02:03:24.520 Sure.

02:03:25.160 Then Congress can say yes or no.

02:03:27.300 So the Supreme Court justices are free from the electoral process, but they are politically

02:03:31.240 appointed and politically approved.

02:03:32.380 Okay.

02:03:32.780 Same thing the inspector general said.

02:03:34.580 Hold on.

02:03:35.160 The reason why we do it this way, the Supreme Court gets a lifetime appointment so that

02:03:42.140 there is a stability in judicial review.

02:03:45.320 The president gets four years.

02:03:47.220 The House gets two.

02:03:48.240 Senators get six.

02:03:49.660 This country, in my opinion, has become a hodgepodge of duct tape in many ways, notably

02:03:54.820 with agencies operating outside of the confines of government.

02:03:57.980 That makes literally no sense.

02:04:00.280 Doge is an executive branch department.

02:04:02.340 It's not outside the government.

02:04:03.040 Hold on.

02:04:03.460 But no, those other things were outside the government.

02:04:06.020 CFPB literally –

02:04:07.060 Okay.

02:04:07.280 No, no, no.

02:04:07.540 Hold on.

02:04:07.780 Hold on.

02:04:07.960 This is a fact statement.

02:04:09.220 I am not making this up.

02:04:10.080 Okay.

02:04:11.000 One of the big questions right now that sparked a lot of controversy was Donald Trump asserting

02:04:15.140 executive authority over departments that were told – or were said to be independent

02:04:19.860 of the president.

02:04:20.940 One of these is CFPB, which is operating outside of the executive branch and Congress.

02:04:27.440 This is, in my view, insanely unconstitutional.

02:04:30.800 The purpose of a political process is quite literally.

02:04:33.460 We can impeach Supreme Court justices.

02:04:36.080 We can fundamentally alter agencies that we believe are doing wrong or doing right or just

02:04:41.000 need improvement, whatever it may be.

02:04:42.080 What points the head of the CFPB?

02:04:43.620 What?

02:04:43.920 What points the head of the CFPB?

02:04:45.240 The president does.

02:04:45.980 The president does.

02:04:46.740 Oh, really?

02:04:47.520 Just like the Supreme Court?

02:04:48.880 Oh, so they're operating outside.

02:04:50.120 And who can – and so who gets to fire employees that are bad?

02:04:54.940 The president can, but that's different from shutting down the agency or whatever.

02:04:59.680 Yeah.

02:05:00.020 So the president can fire these people.

02:05:02.740 Right now, it is largely Democrats resisting executive authority over what should be branches

02:05:06.680 operating under the executive authority.

02:05:09.060 Trump has sole executive authority as the president.

02:05:10.920 It is insane to me that at any point ever –

02:05:13.540 He can't do anything he wants.

02:05:13.680 He can't do anything he wants, though, right?

02:05:15.760 He has –

02:05:16.240 Under executive authority.

02:05:17.180 No.

02:05:17.520 He can't do anything he wants under executive – he can't torture members of his branch,

02:05:22.820 right, just because he wants to.

02:05:24.200 He has to work within the bounds of the law.

02:05:26.040 If he's not doing that now, then that's the issue.

02:05:27.540 I've got to pause you there.

02:05:28.360 Sorry, go ahead.

02:05:28.980 I don't think you're familiar with the NDAA signed by Obama in 2012.

02:05:33.140 Please tell me.

02:05:33.880 Donald Trump can literally take anybody he wants and torture them offshore.

02:05:36.840 Okay, then that should be illegal as well.

02:05:38.780 I completely agree, which is my point.

02:05:41.200 Over a long period of time, this country has become a hodgepodge of duct tape with insane

02:05:44.620 things in it.

02:05:45.160 Barack Obama signed the National Defense Authorization Act Indefinite Detention Provision,

02:05:49.900 which allows a president with sole executive authority to rendition literally anyone in

02:05:54.540 the world anywhere they want indefinitely.

02:05:57.460 Insanity!

02:05:58.320 Tim, Tim.

02:05:58.440 George W. Bush.

02:05:59.760 We're going to find some agreement here, right?

02:06:01.320 Okay, the thing that I was trying to drive to, that I never got to, is the point of doge,

02:06:05.700 right, and not going through Congress.

02:06:06.880 Because like you just saw, there is a process to do exactly what he's talking about, but

02:06:10.680 he's not using that process.

02:06:11.880 No, no, no.

02:06:12.220 You're misconstruing things.

02:06:13.800 Trump has not issued a deferral or rescission.

02:06:15.820 The Impoundment Act.

02:06:16.340 Yes, exactly.

02:06:16.740 No, no, no.

02:06:17.020 Trump has not engaged in rescission or deferral.

02:06:19.640 Yes, exactly.

02:06:20.200 He hasn't followed the Impoundment Act.

02:06:21.360 That would be the process to do this.

02:06:22.360 Hold on.

02:06:23.380 Deferral is specifically if Trump said the funding appropriate to Congress shall be deferred one year,

02:06:28.500 by sending a letter to Congress.

02:06:29.640 He has not deferred.

02:06:31.080 I know.

02:06:31.700 I agree.

02:06:32.340 I don't know why you keep repeating that.

02:06:33.720 I know that.

02:06:34.400 The Impoundment Act has nothing to do with what Doge is doing.

02:06:36.420 No, I'm saying that Doge is the end run around the Impoundment Act.

02:06:40.400 That's what I'm saying, right?

02:06:41.660 That we have a process to do that.

02:06:44.020 What I'm saying is that this is—

02:06:45.380 Okay, okay, sure.

02:06:46.080 So the issue then is you are saying perhaps there should be new—

02:06:49.600 First, there should be judicial review of what he's doing to see if it violates the Impoundment Act.

02:06:53.240 Sure.

02:06:53.540 Because he's not issued deferral or rescission.

02:06:55.240 Sure.

02:06:55.500 He has quite literally not frozen funds or rescinded the funds.

02:06:59.060 Then we would need new legislation to specifically state here the parameters by which—

02:07:03.880 This is called a check and a balance.

02:07:04.940 That's why we have a legislative branch.

02:07:05.980 Yeah.

02:07:06.160 So far right now, the argument is purely political, stating in the future we should operate like this, not what you're doing right now should be stopped.

02:07:13.720 No, no, no, no, no.

02:07:14.120 It's not purely political, right?

02:07:15.380 I'm talking about the actual process.

02:07:16.960 We have a process.

02:07:18.080 We're outside the bounds of that process.

02:07:21.440 That's the thing I'm talking about.

02:07:22.540 Okay.

02:07:22.940 Hold on, hold on, hold on, real quick.

02:07:25.680 Donald Trump—okay, you keep signing the Impoundment Act.

02:07:28.340 I'm going to say it again.

02:07:29.600 Rescission.

02:07:30.140 The president says, I hereby rescind these funds.

02:07:32.540 They will not be used for this purpose.

02:07:35.240 Deferral.

02:07:35.640 The president says, I hereby put a stay on these funds for one year so we can review based on these criteria.

02:07:41.860 Trump has not frozen or rescinded those funds.

02:07:45.040 I know.

02:07:45.800 Which means the legal confines of the Impoundment Act do not apply to determinations.

02:07:50.120 Of course it does because the Impoundment Act is to say that, you know, the Impoundment Act, the president can't do that unilaterally, right?

02:07:56.420 It has to go through—

02:07:57.460 Okay, I'm going to try it again.

02:07:58.660 I'm going to try it one more time.

02:07:59.760 You can try it again.

02:08:01.160 Firing an employee is not a declaration of deferral of funding.

02:08:04.540 If the acts of Congress don't actually get done—

02:08:09.060 So in one year we will revisit that conversation.

02:08:12.260 Okay.

02:08:12.800 All right.

02:08:13.240 Then we'll do that in one year.

02:08:14.000 I mean, we're not even at a—

02:08:14.700 And then you can argue Trump did not handle it.

02:08:18.120 So the final thing, right?

02:08:20.220 I think this is an act of the unitary executive theory.

02:08:24.120 Oh, I agree with some of that.

02:08:25.680 Of course you do, right?

02:08:26.900 It basically means that under the president, right, they have complete control of the executive, right?

02:08:33.320 And it's unchecked power.

02:08:35.040 That's the unitary executive theory.

02:08:36.780 No, it's not.

02:08:36.960 That's exactly what it is.

02:08:37.980 No, no, no.

02:08:38.260 I'm saying the Constitution—you have a check and a balance.

02:08:40.680 The judiciary reviews the actions of the executive.

02:08:43.320 Yeah.

02:08:43.660 Trump has a single authority.

02:08:45.420 He can't do these things.

02:08:46.660 No, I'm saying that under the unitary executive theory, right, the point is to undermine those checks and balances.

02:08:53.320 Well, I don't know if that's true.

02:08:54.640 The doge is one of the processes they're using to undermine them.

02:08:58.560 They have a process.

02:08:59.260 They go through Congress, right, and they have a Republican Congress that will actually do these things.

02:09:02.860 They have said, we want to cut these things, but they're not doing it.

02:09:05.260 They don't want to cut Social Security.

02:09:06.260 But hold on, but hold on.

02:09:07.340 They don't want to cut Social Security, right, so they'll have doge do it instead.

02:09:10.880 But we have a process to do exactly that.

02:09:12.620 You keep bringing up the Impalming Act, right?

02:09:13.960 So this is part of the whole thing why people in my camp voted for Trump is, all right, it's clear that we can get shit done, right?

02:09:23.020 Trump has opened up—

02:09:24.100 No, no, it's not breaking the law.

02:09:25.480 He's followed all court orders.

02:09:27.200 He's come out of the breakneck parish.

02:09:28.900 He's secured border.

02:09:30.040 He's started doge.

02:09:31.080 He's done these other things.

02:09:32.140 And so when I look at this, we're only six weeks in or seven weeks now, and Trump has already done so much stuff.

02:09:38.240 We're at, like, arguably $105 billion saved or $65 billion or whatever.

02:09:43.680 But my point is this.

02:09:44.680 My point is this, right?

02:09:46.440 Like, they're sitting here, and when we see this, it's clear that the bureaucracy has been holding us back.

02:09:52.220 And Trump is going in there gutting it.

02:09:54.200 And when I go—

02:09:54.840 Another way for the bureaucracy are the things that people voted for.

02:09:58.080 Hold on.

02:09:58.520 Didn't we vote for all that other stuff before?

02:10:00.340 Hold on.

02:10:00.840 You talked about democracy and what people voted for.

02:10:02.760 People voted to have the Department of Education.

02:10:04.760 They voted for the CFPB, right?

02:10:06.500 They voted for all these—the Veterans Affairs Office.

02:10:09.740 They voted for all those things.

02:10:10.920 Right now, they did.

02:10:11.240 Those things are being—

02:10:11.920 Yeah, they didn't vote for this.

02:10:12.720 I think—okay, so we do have to wrap up because we're going a little long.

02:10:16.660 But I do think you made a really great point when I asked which laws were broken.

02:10:19.620 You said the Impoundment Act.

02:10:21.160 The issue, of course, being that to the letter of the law, Trump didn't break that law.

02:10:24.440 However, you choose to interpret it that way because your opinion is that Trump firing people is an end run around the Impoundment Act because he is eliminating employees that should be able to get the job done.

02:10:33.780 And thus, effectively deferring the funding because now it's not going to be utilized properly.

02:10:39.140 This is why my final thoughts on this are the left over the past 15, 20 years has engaged in the ethos of there is no truth but power.

02:10:47.940 This was the words of the late David Graeber, not me, that the left has adopted the fascistic ethos.

02:10:53.720 Who is that?

02:10:54.880 What?

02:10:55.460 Could you explain who that person is?

02:10:56.580 David Graeber.

02:10:57.380 He was called the Anarchist Anthropologist.

02:10:59.340 He was a professor and he was a prominent progressive and one of the organizers of Occupy Wall Street.

02:11:03.120 OK, thank you.

02:11:03.940 He passed away a few years ago, but before he died, he had this long thread on Twitter.

02:11:08.160 It was Twitter at the time that the left has adopted fascistic ethos, namely there is no truth but power.

02:11:13.680 And so what we've been seeing is, for instance, with Donald Trump's documents case, his home was raided.

02:11:20.440 His wife and his child's bedroom were raided.

02:11:23.160 And he was they tried to prosecute him under this.

02:11:26.060 Joe Biden, however, there was his ghostwriter explicitly stated on the record.

02:11:30.360 Biden was recorded saying he had illegally retained national security documents as vice president for the purpose of writing a book to make money.

02:11:36.700 There was no prosecution against Joe Biden.

02:11:38.520 There was against Donald Trump.

02:11:39.820 The statement that Donald Trump violated the Impoundment Act, I do believe rather exemplifies the crisis we're having in this country in that to the letter of law, Donald Trump did not.

02:11:48.860 He did not publicly declare a deferral of funds or a rescission of funds.

02:11:53.760 He fired a bunch of people.

02:11:55.400 The interpretation for you and many on the left would be, you see, he's is breaking the law.

02:12:00.820 We we deem it so by our interpretation, by the spirit of the law.

02:12:04.980 He has broken it, not by the letter.

02:12:06.500 So the challenge we then have is the left is there is no truth but power.

02:12:10.900 We will interpret the law and we will enforce it as we see it, not what the law actually states.

02:12:15.460 Donald Trump is doing an end run, whereas the right has continually played this.

02:12:19.920 Yeah, we're not going to do that because we can't.

02:12:21.560 And several examples of that are the summer of love riots where the White House was firebombed.

02:12:26.160 We got no M20 M29 hearings or committee.

02:12:29.760 There was no investigation into the hundred plus people who were throwing the firebombs and setting fire to churches.

02:12:34.660 The mass riots that resulted in 30 plus deaths, all of it ignored.

02:12:38.020 And this was under Trump's administration.

02:12:39.700 The right does not engage in these no truth but power games for the most part, though sometimes they do.

02:12:44.960 The left has a tendency to do so.

02:12:46.860 My ultimate point is there's not going to be an agreement as to whether or not what Trump is doing fits or does not fit within the confines,

02:12:52.680 because we fully expect the liberal establishment and whatever's left of it.

02:12:56.640 There's no Democratic Party leader to utilize the law however they see fit to make sure that their political enemies are destroyed.

02:13:02.620 For instance, the racketeering charges against Jenna Ellis in Georgia for simply representing Donald Trump.

02:13:07.960 She was charged with two counts of racketeering.

02:13:10.000 All she did was provide legal advice to a man who hired her to do so.

02:13:15.320 And in Georgia, they tried putting her in prison, to which she cried on TV and apologized for doing so.

02:13:19.200 They did this in, I believe it was Wisconsin as well, targeting the lawyers, the legal representation of a sitting president.

02:13:25.020 We have seen two left-aligned individuals try to assassinate the man, not to mention the Iranian plot, but that's here nor there.

02:13:30.800 You've got terror attacks against Tesla.

02:13:33.000 I perceive this as Republicans are going to continually be weak, however, and the left will continually either obfuscate, defend, engage in extra legal practices, target lawyers, shut down speech.

02:13:45.080 Let's just start from the beginning.

02:13:46.040 Let's go quick.

02:13:46.460 The censorship wave of major corporations throughout the 2010s and big tech with left-aligned individuals working with federal intelligence agencies, shutting down largely conservative personalities was denied by the corporate press, finally admitted to by now Mark Zuckerberg, Jack Dorsey, and the whole lot of them.

02:14:00.740 They now acknowledge, yeah, they actually did that.

02:14:03.060 We have evidence from actually left-leaning publications in which the intelligence agencies had back doors into Facebook.

02:14:08.220 This is from The Intercept and X to submit for review things they wanted taken down.

02:14:13.500 It is now a known fact several years on that, yes, these institutions actually were censoring opinions, largely the conservative side.

02:14:20.360 You then have the Summer of Love riots, the Antifa riots, the 90-plus days of firebombing of federal buildings by far leftists to which Kamala Harris and Joe Biden solicited funding to help these individuals get out of jail.

02:14:31.660 Then you have January 6th, the one time that we have of great merit, not the only time I'm saying, the firebombing of the White House in St. John's Church should have resulted in a mass committee hearings and mass arrests.

02:14:43.980 J6 did, and we got years of hearings.

02:14:47.200 The lopsidedness of enforcement and aggression in this country is apparent to anybody who follows the news.

02:14:52.600 For example, Joe Biden in the Burisma scandal.

02:14:55.100 Joe Biden said illegally to a president of a foreign nation, this one's for you.

02:14:59.040 Congress approved federal loan guarantees to Ukraine, and Joe Biden flew there and told the president, I am going to block that as vice president unless you do, unless you make a political move that I demand.

02:15:11.760 The firing of a state prosecutor, Viktor Shokin, who is currently investigating, among other things, Mikhail Zodchevsky, the founder of the Burisma Energy Company, for which Joe Biden's son was on the board.

02:15:22.060 Call it whatever you want.

02:15:22.920 At the bare minimum, it was a conflict of interest.

02:15:24.720 When Donald Trump called the president and said, what is this all about?

02:15:28.780 I want this investigated.

02:15:30.060 He was impeached for it and accused of a quid pro quo.

02:15:33.020 By all means, say Donald Trump was guilty.

02:15:34.740 Joe Biden should be guilty all the same.

02:15:36.480 But for some reason, enforcement only went in one direction.

02:15:39.120 What we have today is for the first time that I have seen in 20 years, the right, the Republican side has said it is time to wield power.

02:15:47.520 And what have they done?

02:15:48.680 Fired people.

02:15:49.480 And the reaction from the left is it's a threat to our democracy.

02:15:52.960 He's destroying our democracy.

02:15:54.900 He must be stopped.

02:15:56.400 OK, the reason I think Donald Trump won is because nobody liked the summer of love riots.

02:16:01.540 Nobody liked the 30 plus deaths.

02:16:03.280 Nobody liked the firebombing of the White House.

02:16:04.760 And nothing was done about it at all.

02:16:06.900 Nobody likes that they're paying taxes at all, regardless of whether they're good or bad.

02:16:11.140 Nobody wants to fund foreign wars.

02:16:12.740 The Democrats have become the party of the military industrial complex in at the top level, not not the progressives in their support for Israel.

02:16:20.780 Agreed.

02:16:21.280 As party wide, their support for Ukraine, including the progressives.

02:16:24.860 OK, that is that is the largest funding right now of the military industrial complex.

02:16:28.520 And it is supported across the board.

02:16:30.320 The right has become what I would call the horde in reference to World of Warcraft, a hodgepodge of various groups of only aligned against the, quote unquote, alliance of established power structures.

02:16:40.260 They also support Israel.

02:16:41.240 They're largely at the establishment level.

02:16:43.520 But I would imagine that both sides.

02:16:45.780 Lots of evangelicals are power based, like it supports Israel, of course.

02:16:48.760 Both the left and the right have their anti-Israel faction.

02:16:51.100 Fair enough.

02:16:51.780 And absolutely, Donald Trump will give Israel whatever they want.

02:16:55.240 However, the side that has the larger anti-war sentiment and element is, of course, the Republican side.

02:17:01.720 So what we see right now is the principal positions of the right.

02:17:06.020 We want chemicals out of our food.

02:17:07.860 There are some people on the left who want that, though.

02:17:09.680 So RF Kennedy Jr. was rejected by every single Democrat when he was up for appointment.

02:17:15.340 And what is RFK Jr.'s position?

02:17:17.120 We should have better science, better reviews.

02:17:19.160 And they called him an anti-vaxxer and they called him all these other things.

02:17:21.620 And then he puts on an op ed saying, please get the vaccine, which is insane.

02:17:25.000 It's insane that people criticized him for that when he was never active.

02:17:27.400 And that's what I mean. RFK Jr. represents the let's get healthy, which used to be a left Democrat position.

02:17:33.920 It was the big corporations aligned with libertarian billionaires that didn't care that we had chemicals.

02:17:40.880 You've got Tulsi Gabbard, a large anti-war personality, critical of U.S. spending in foreign policy and the bombings in Syria, etc.

02:17:47.400 And they called her pro-Russia for it because she was critical of us engaging in regime change wars across the Middle East.

02:17:52.680 So you've got the anti-war element, the health element, and you've got the make America, the reduce the size of government element.

02:18:00.680 On the Democrat side, you have, I would call it also additionally a strange hodgepodge, but you have support overtly for the military-industrial complex at the highest levels.

02:18:09.420 Absolutely.

02:18:10.060 Broad support for the military-industrial complex at the progressive to large levels, which is Ukraine, which received more, Ukraine received more funding than Israel has in 70 years.

02:18:19.320 So if you're talking about the principal funding, the largest recipient of military-industrial complex support is Ukraine.

02:18:26.580 Nothing else comes close.

02:18:27.560 Even Vietnam, I think, was only $70 billion.

02:18:29.660 Israel has, right now, after 70 years, has already been surpassed by Ukraine in two, which is nuts.

02:18:36.780 The Democrats largely supported mass corporations.

02:18:40.080 They largely now support war.

02:18:42.360 They oppose the health operations, and they support bureaucratic institutions, which most people can't understand what's currently going on.

02:18:49.800 My view here is, now I'm ranting, but I'll just finish by saying this.

02:18:54.560 When you've got prominent punk rock bands that used to be anti-war, now pro-Ukraine, it appears that the Democratic institution has crumbled for a reason,

02:19:06.120 and that is, it is hypocritical and doesn't seem to be at all representing any core ideology.

02:19:12.260 The ultimate point I'm trying to make is, no one's going to agree.

02:19:17.260 The Democrats are going to continue to say, might makes right, and the right is going to continue to say, but we're literally watching these things happen.

02:19:24.700 The difference now is, through the collapse of the corporate narrative machine and the rise of podcasts, Donald Trump was able to win.

02:19:31.580 And now you actually have people who want actions to happen, happening, and of course, the Democrats still maintain, might makes right, so we'll do what we want.

02:19:41.360 Yeah, I'll just give you my final thought, right?

02:19:44.600 And it's pretty simple.

02:19:46.140 You know, there's the age-old expression when you look at organized crime, is that they get more violent and they get louder the closer you get to hitting their money.

02:19:54.920 And it seems to me, it's crazy that the reaction to Doge by the left in general has been, like terror attacks on Tesla, has been outrage over all the stuff that's been going down.

02:20:06.740 And to me, it seems like it's because they're hitting the money and there's some kind of nasty onion that we need to pull back the layers.

02:20:12.460 And, you know, I just, the visceral, just hatred, and they're sitting here, they're calling him President Musk, they're calling him, you know, a Nazi, they're calling him all these different things.

02:20:21.380 And I'm just going, you know, well, there's got to be something up.

02:20:24.660 And every time he goes and clears something out, it's just, no matter what he does, it's, like, it's bad, even if it's not bad.

02:20:31.620 Even when he took out the leader of ISIS.

02:20:34.080 Yeah, terrible.

02:20:34.860 I believe it was Ezra Klein who said, something to the effect of the fact that Democrats can't give Trump one good day, effectively, like, disproves their, like, I'll paraphrase, but the fact that Trump couldn't get one good day at all for killing a man who was kidnapping young girls and raping them and leading a terror organization,

02:20:51.280 in the Middle East, something that even Obama spoke out against, shows there is no ethos or ideology behind their actions.

02:20:56.840 It is simply might makes right.

02:20:58.060 Oh, yeah, when he turned General Salami into Salami, you know, I mean, a big fan of that, he, you know, crippled Iran's terror organizations with the, through the, what is it, the Revolutionary Guard?

02:21:08.060 Like, crippled them, and nobody ever wanted to give him credit for that.

02:21:10.260 But these are things the Democrats, based on their positions today, should have supported.

02:21:15.380 This is the issue.

02:21:17.380 Donald Trump takes out the, quote-unquote, austere scholar in ISIS, and he was still heavily criticized for it.

02:21:23.300 He takes out the leader of terror operations in the Middle East.

02:21:25.880 That happened in Iraq, though.

02:21:27.860 If I'm remembering with the General Salami thing, it happened in Iraq.

02:21:31.480 That was, if I remember correctly, and it's been a long time, right, that was the issue.

02:21:35.840 Not that he took him out because we, like, attack Iran all the time, right, but that we took him out on Iraqi territory.

02:21:41.960 See, that's hypocrisy.

02:21:43.280 Yeah, hold on.

02:21:45.520 We, we, we, we, violating other sovereignty.

02:21:47.820 Oh, let's play the game, buddy.

02:21:49.200 Barack Obama murdered a 16-year-old in Yemen.

02:21:51.800 I agree with you.

02:21:51.840 I agree with you.

02:21:52.360 I agree with you, 100%.

02:21:53.160 And where, where is the outrage over what Biden was doing and what Obama was doing?

02:21:57.140 There was plenty of outrage on the left.

02:21:58.520 I agree with you in terms of liberals.

02:22:00.100 I 100% agree with you in terms of their support of Israel, right?

02:22:02.880 Like, it's been completely undermining anything they've talked about.

02:22:05.760 And let me pause you, because my point is, when Democrats defended and cheered for Obama murdering people, children in Yemen.

02:22:12.080 That was wrong, yeah.

02:22:12.860 They don't care.

02:22:14.080 I'm not talking about you or the progressives.

02:22:15.740 I'm saying the Democrat establishment.

02:22:17.760 Agreed.

02:22:18.380 That is supposed to be the other side of this conflict are mad at Trump for killing Soleimani while celebrating or defending Barack Obama for murdering literal children in countries we are not at war with.

02:22:28.580 I agree, I agree, I agree.

02:22:30.460 And that is, that is the, the, the principal issue.

02:22:32.840 We both have anti-establishment views then.

02:22:34.520 Okay.

02:22:34.680 It is, it is, that's why I said they're, uh, the, I'll tell you one of the problems I have with the progressives is their support for Ukraine, which makes literally no sense.

02:22:43.680 Uh, okay.

02:22:44.820 But, but anyway, I digress.

02:22:45.860 Yeah, sure.

02:22:46.100 Uh, instead of me interrupting and ranting like I should, we should wind things down.

02:22:48.960 So if you guys, if you guys want to take the final thoughts.

02:22:51.280 Go ahead, Brad.

02:22:51.700 Uh, uh, okay, um, uh, Doge is a disaster in terms of constitutionality.

02:22:58.700 Um, it violates, uh, the, uh, uh, Congress's ability to decide where funds go, um, uh, and, uh, it undermines various other laws and regulations.

02:23:09.780 They're going to be, uh, we're going to figure this out, uh, in court.

02:23:13.440 Um, I think that we, there's lots of things that we didn't get to, right?

02:23:16.700 Because we got distracted by immigration, unfortunately, but we didn't get to Elon Musk, like endless conflict of interest.

02:23:22.020 Right?

02:23:22.180 Like for instance, um, uh, like undermining other companies' contracts, right?

02:23:26.560 So he starts firing people in the FAA and then he decides, oh, the FAA is using this system, is deciding to, um, go to Verizon to get this, uh, communication system.

02:23:34.260 I'm going to get that contract canceled or it's going to mysteriously cancel itself.

02:23:38.280 And then Starlink instead is going to take that contract.

02:23:40.920 Interesting.

02:23:41.440 Right?

02:23:42.040 Um, uh, I think the Doge does a bad job in giving Trump the information, right?

02:23:47.040 So if, if, if, if Doge is just an advisory board, right?

02:23:50.520 Which people claim, which is bullshit, right?

02:23:51.960 But if it's just an advisory board and it's giving Trump information to then act, then it's doing a bad job.

02:23:57.300 We can see that with the Social Security, uh, administration, right?

02:23:59.700 Talking about those tens of millions of people, right?

02:24:02.420 Over 150, uh, getting checks.

02:24:04.600 That was a lie, right?

02:24:05.820 That was a lie.

02:24:06.600 Not even a lie.

02:24:07.640 I think it's because they were so stupid.

02:24:09.440 They didn't understand exactly how those government databases worked, right?

02:24:12.660 It was literally just a quirk of programming.

02:24:14.800 Um, uh, but we see this all the time in terms of errors.

02:24:17.420 So it's not efficient and that it makes mistakes all the goddamn time.

02:24:20.400 It requires other people, uh, to, um, uh, to error check it, right?

02:24:25.280 It has, um, tried to, uh, ensconce itself in secrecy in terms of, uh, like hiding from

02:24:30.840 FOIA requests, pretending it's not an agency, but then pretending it is an agency.

02:24:34.220 Donald Trump saying that, uh, Elon Musk is in charge of, uh, Doge, but then not in charge

02:24:39.580 of Doge.

02:24:40.120 And so is this Amy Gleason person who's never, no one's ever heard of, right?

02:24:43.220 This is a whole process to undermine our democracy rather than going through, uh, Congress, rather

02:24:49.820 than going through the normal process that we have set up, we have Doge, right?

02:24:53.900 And you can say it's getting rid of waste, fraud, and abuse, right?

02:24:56.500 But one, Doge is deciding what is waste, fraud, and abuse.

02:24:59.380 Something that we can't agree with, and there's a lot of it that we can't, right?

02:25:02.420 But it should be, uh, handled through our, uh, legislative process.

02:25:06.220 That's the process that we, um, that we have.

02:25:08.280 And so undermining that is a problem.

02:25:10.020 This is an act of the unitary executive theory, right?

02:25:12.280 This is to undermine, um, uh, uh, the checks and balances so that, uh, the executive has

02:25:17.800 unchecked power.

02:25:19.500 This is exactly the plan.

02:25:21.020 Russ Vault, right?

02:25:22.080 Uh, the, uh, who's, uh, part, who's now the head of, uh, Office of Budget and Management,

02:25:25.760 I believe.

02:25:26.560 Um, he, uh, is another person who's been pushing unitary executive theory, right?

02:25:31.280 Uh, uh, so, um, there is, and his, uh, uh, uh, attorney general, general Barr, right,

02:25:38.700 from his first, uh, term, right, actively talked about the unitary executive theory.

02:25:42.300 All of this is in line with that.

02:25:44.640 Russ Vault is important.

02:25:45.700 He's critical to actually accomplishing this plan.

02:25:48.140 So I'm against that.

02:25:49.460 I like the checks and balances.

02:25:50.540 The checks and balances that, uh, Tim apparently says that he still values.

02:25:54.500 If you do, well, then you won't like Doge.

02:25:57.020 I appreciate you, Tim, for inviting me on the chat.

02:25:58.960 Thanks for coming.

02:25:59.380 This has been fun.

02:25:59.920 Uh, yeah.

02:26:00.620 So, yeah.

02:26:01.160 Uh, well, first, yeah, I, uh, big fan of, uh, everything Trump's done.

02:26:05.840 Trump said we'd get tired of winning.

02:26:06.940 Not tired yet.

02:26:07.880 It's been every day, every day.

02:26:09.560 It's breakneck wins.

02:26:10.340 I just can't even keep track, uh, Elon, if you, uh, happen to watch this, hey, why

02:26:14.260 don't you go check out the ATF?

02:26:15.460 We'd be a huge fan to that.

02:26:17.160 Uh, you know, uh, as far as I know, not, nobody likes the ATF, but, uh, moving on.

02:26:22.060 Yeah.

02:26:22.300 Uh, love what, uh, he's doing.

02:26:24.160 Hope he keeps, he keeps up the good work.

02:26:26.100 Uh, you know, big fan of all of those things.

02:26:29.060 Uh, the, the government's clearly bloated.

02:26:31.260 I think the fact that we're getting this visceral reaction from the Dems is indicative that there

02:26:35.380 is corruption, uh, I, I think that we're going to find more and more, uh, it's, it's just

02:26:40.120 crazy to me.

02:26:41.060 Uh, but yeah, shout out to Prime for helping set this up.

02:26:44.100 Thanks for having us, Tim.

02:26:45.200 And, uh, shout out to Modi and Wick.

02:26:46.760 I wouldn't be streaming and doing any of this without them.

02:26:48.700 Where can people find you?

02:26:49.760 Oh, uh, you can find me every day, Monday through Thursday at 7.30 p.m.

02:26:53.360 Central, uh, as Admiral Gibbs on pretty much, uh, every platform.

02:26:57.000 Sure.

02:26:57.460 Uh, you can find me on Twitch.tv and youtube.com at PrimeKai, P-R-I-M-E-C-A-Y-E-S.

02:27:04.580 Love to have you.

02:27:05.240 We do stream on Mondays and Thursdays, but we're expanding our streams, right?

02:27:08.220 We want to do more content.

02:27:09.600 Um, so please check us out.

02:27:10.860 Love to have you.

02:27:11.360 And you'll find Gibbs here.

02:27:12.420 So you like Gibbs, you'll find more of Gibbs.

02:27:14.280 We argue all the time and I prove them wrong all the time.

02:27:16.440 I don't know if I've ever been approved right.

02:27:18.500 They call me the political prophet because I'm always right.

02:27:21.480 It's crazy.

02:27:22.180 Gentlemen, it's been great.

02:27:23.360 Thanks for hanging out.

02:27:23.940 You know, I wish we had more time, but, uh, in the future,

02:27:26.280 we're planning on doing these live with an audience and bringing up people on

02:27:28.780 stage.

02:27:29.060 So I'd love to have you guys back.

02:27:30.080 It'd be great.

02:27:30.600 Love it.

02:27:30.980 And, um, in about, uh, let's see a month and a half, we're playing our first

02:27:34.740 show and we're trying to figure out what we're going to do.

02:27:37.000 So we'll see what happens.

02:27:37.680 And hopefully you guys as members may actually come up and sit at the table

02:27:41.340 and yell at one of these two fine gentlemen, or, you know, depending,

02:27:44.460 depending, he's really excited for that.

02:27:45.980 Yeah.

02:27:46.340 The idea is for those that are members of the Timcast discord,

02:27:49.140 we want to have about 40 seats in the audience and, uh, members of the audience

02:27:52.900 submit their debate talking point on the core issue.

02:27:54.960 So we'd present them doge pro for or against, then we're going to try and do

02:27:58.940 split between half four, half against people present their arguments.

02:28:03.080 We'll look through them.

02:28:04.220 And if they're not very good, then we're going to be like, okay,

02:28:06.680 we're not gonna be this person, but we're not going to be mean.

02:28:08.240 But then we want to bring people up and have them sit down in the chair and

02:28:10.440 give them a few minutes to, to, to debate.

02:28:12.140 That's a really cool idea.

02:28:12.980 I I've been working in like on my own.

02:28:14.920 I've been doing like a formal debates where there's like a winner and loser and

02:28:17.580 we have rankings and whatnot.

02:28:18.500 And, uh, I think that there's definitely space in, in this industry for what

02:28:22.380 you're describing.

02:28:23.120 I think the issue is, um, we want to decentralize the ability for people to be

02:28:27.000 loud and, uh, there's probably a lot of people we've never heard of who are

02:28:30.960 smarter than all of us combined and they're just not marketing people.

02:28:34.500 They're intelligent philosophers and researchers.

02:28:36.820 And they could sit here and explain to all of us why we're all wrong and then

02:28:40.060 come up with some really crazy idea.

02:28:41.680 So that's the goal.

02:28:42.400 I like it.

02:28:42.800 But, uh, that's the future, my friends.

02:28:44.240 Uh, we're gonna be back tonight at Timcast IRL 8 PM with a bunch of news.

02:28:48.540 It's getting crazy out there.

02:28:49.780 The swattings, they're getting crazy.

02:28:51.000 Thanks for hanging out and we'll see y'all then.

02:29:02.860 Welcome to finally caught a true crime podcast from the hit North American and

02:29:07.580 UK television series.

02:29:08.920 I saw the one girl with her throat cut and her abdomen stabbed.

02:29:14.240 And slashed.

02:29:15.160 It's a gruesome sight.

02:29:16.640 Bloodstains on the bed wall.

02:29:18.740 This is just the beginning of the journey.

02:29:20.780 Each episode details a horrific murder and subsequent investigation in order to

02:29:24.700 capture the killer at large.

02:29:26.400 The newly released first season of finally caught available wherever you get your

02:29:30.380 podcasts.

02:29:31.060 From the history

02:29:37.300 We'll see you in the next episode.

02:29:39.180 We'll see you next time with the talk.

02:29:43.980 We'll see you next time with the show.

02:29:46.360 We'll see you next time.

02:29:47.740 We'll see you next time.

02:29:48.200 Then, on the video.

02:29:49.460 See you next time.

02:29:50.580 We'll see you next time.

02:29:51.520 We'll see you next time.

02:29:52.200 nehmen timewill,

The Culture War - Tim Pool - March 14, 2025

Is DOGE A THREAT To 'Democracy？' Left V Right w⧸ PrimeCayes & Justin Gibbs

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