Left PANICS Over RFK's MAHA Reform, Testosterone To SKYROCKET ft. Raw Egg Nationalist
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Summary
In this episode, I'm joined by food writer, journalist, author, and all-around expert on the topic of Big Meat and its impact on the world. We discuss how R.J.K. junior is shoving Big Meat down everyone s throats, why it's a bad idea, and why we should be worried about it.
Transcript
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all right well before we get started here i just want to read this headline this is hilarious this
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is from the new york times they put this guest essay out this would have been on the 10th no the
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new food pyramid brought to you by big no way now i saw this i said look everyone's talking about a
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big me everyone's you know thinking about big meat big meat's been like just in my brain i'm having a
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tough time grasping big meat obviously it's on the tip of everyone's tongues so i wanted to bring an
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expert in what are your thoughts on big meat um do you think big meat is maybe it's like kind of an
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imposing force do you think rfk is shoving big meat down everyone's throats what do you think is going
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on yeah i i you know i think about big meat a lot um it occupies a lot of my thinking a lot of my
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writing is about big meat about what big meat means right um how you would define big meat you know
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what constitutes big meat one small meat right or uh average meat even you know right um uh but um
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but yeah but to be to be serious though you know this this notion of big meat actually is absurd i mean
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what they want you to believe i think really is that basically there's big like there's big ag
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and you've got big corn and you've got big soy and you've got big beef and big chicken and big pork
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and they're all kind of competing forces within the market right and so you know what's good for
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big meat for big beef or big corn uh or big chicken or big pork isn't good for big soy or big corn
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well that simply isn't the case i mean it month it might once upon a once upon a time have been the
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case that you had conglomerates that were just in chicken or beef or pork and conglomerates that were
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that were in grains but agriculture is so deeply deeply integrated in the us now so if you look at
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a mega corporation like cargill for example cargill is one of the largest grain companies in the world
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and has been for and has been for the better part of a century or more they're also the biggest or one
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of the biggest beef producers in the us so this notion that somehow all rfk junior has done is he's kind
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of like you know flipped a switch and now instead of favoring big grain he's favoring big meat
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is just nonsense because you can't actually you can't separate them there's no i mean so it is a
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nonsense it really is a nonsense to suggest that this is just about um pleasing or pandering to
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a new set of corporate interests you know the big big meter big meter slipping rfk junior you know
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stakes stakes in the background or something like it just doesn't work just doesn't work like that
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agriculture is not like that anymore so actually you know you find that these big um companies that
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were traditionally in meat so cargill i think uh you know another tyson for example tyson's a better
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example you know tyson was traditionally a meat and dairy company well they're they're hugely into grain
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now and they're also hugely actually into alternative proteins and this is something that i talk about
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in my previous book um the eggs benedict option that i wrote in 2022 um you know all of these these
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companies that were traditionally just producing meat and dairy they're now producing um uh like
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they're things like plant-based meats and pea protein and all sorts of alternative foods as well
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so like there's just this this notion of of big meat of of meat production being separate from
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other forms of food production separate from processed food in particular because processed
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food is the is the principal constituent of the the vast majority of americans diets now it's just it's
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just nonsense so i mean it's it's fabricated as funny as it might sound you know to be talking about
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rfk junior you know riding big meat it's yeah it's nonsense it's nonsense absolutely well i mean that's
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why i wanted to bring you on because obviously this story has been in the zeitgeist but there's
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not a lot of people that can speak with authority on it let alone speak with the depth of knowledge
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that you have on the topic um you know before we really get into the meat and potatoes so to speak
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of the story could you give an overview on on the work you've done thus far and then what aspects
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of that work you have seen implemented in rfk's sort of overhaul of hhs yeah well you know it's it's
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very interesting i actually met um uh someone who is now very senior in hhs just before um the
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election like days before the election when i was in the us and this person said to me i read your book
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the eggs benedict option it's amazing it's a blueprint for make america healthy again like
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everything you talk about here uh corporate control of the food supply in particular the elimination
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of animal foods uh from you know from from diets of ordinary americans and the corresponding decline
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in health this is all the stuff that we want to get into this is all the kind of stuff that we want
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to focus on so i mean my book the eggs benedict option is about the plan for a global plant-based diet
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and why that's a bad thing uh and so you know i mean that was that was a that was a big thing in
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like 2020 2021 2022 during the during the coronavirus crisis you know when people were talking about the
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great reset whatever that was supposed to mean uh an integral part of that was this idea that actually
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we need to change our diet we need not only to have a great reset you know of the way that we
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of the way that what the world of work um uh and the way that we live and all this kind of stuff but
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also the way that we eat in particular um and so they were pushing plant-based diets and so i thought
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well you know what would that actually mean for our health and so i wrote a book about it and then i
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wrote an alternative proposal so my great reset was a vision of actually returning to um returning to
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the way our ancestors used to eat um to to animal-based diets basically and i drew very heavily
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on the work of uh a dentist come anthropologist called western a price who uh wrote this amazing
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amazing book in the 1930s called nutrition and physical degeneration which um is basically the
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best book on nutrition you've never heard of so he uh he basically went around the world to small
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scale traditional societies he visited the inuit he went to the uh highlands and islands of scotland
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he went up into the swiss alps he went to uh africa to polynesia to fiji and new zealand and all these
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different places and he looked at what people in traditional societies at and he looked in he looked
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in particular for traditional societies where people were basically in perfect health and he discovered
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that everybody everybody all of these societies every single one of them uh prioritize nutrient-dense
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animal foods in particular so you know like an inuit isn't eating exactly the same food as a
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pastoralist uh in kenya sure right but the type of food is the same so yes an inuit might be eating
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salmon and caribou and yes uh you know a maasai herdsman will be eating uh beef and milk and blood
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in particular but actually they're both prioritizing the same kinds of animal foods which are nutrient-dense
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animal foods so it's things like organ meat fatty cuts of meat dairy foods eggs uh seafood shellfish
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crustaceans uh fatty fish that kind of stuff you know and that's basically how our ancestors
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ate since the dawn of time uh but then there was this profound change in the 20th century in particular
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continuing into into the 21st where we we started to eat these new types of food produced in factories
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the first processed foods and then ultra processed foods which are kind of like the more a more recent
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development from the 70s 80s uh into today but um but yeah i mean the the hhs agenda i mean i'm i'm
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amazed i'm really amazed so far actually you know that they they really have turned the food pyramid on its
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head and it and it's basically i mean it's everything i've asked for it's everything i've said
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we should do you know we need to return to um to diets that are based on nutrient-dense animal foods
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we we need to stop being afraid of animal proteins and especially animal fats you know animal fats
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and cholesterol in particular which is constituent of animal fat uh they've been demonized in the
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20th century cholesterol in particular i mean cholesterol is one of the is one of the re is the
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real boogeyman apart from say something like tobacco uh of 20th century medicine you know in the late
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1960s in the u.s then um there was actually a specific health warning attached to eggs in
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particular in the u.s so they are the only food stuff in american history that has ever had a
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specific warning attached to its consumption because of the because of the amount of cholesterol
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in eggs so um uh we we need to reverse all that you know we were promised americans were promised
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and the rest of the world were promised renewed health we were told look if we stop eating cholesterol
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we'll stop getting heart disease uh all of these other chronic diseases will go away you know we'll
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have renewed health and that just hasn't happened and you know you you look it's it's obvious you look
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around today people are unhealthier than they've ever been they're more dependent than they've ever
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been on pharmaceuticals in fact you know people are dependent on pharmaceuticals in a way that
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once upon a time 100 years ago would actually only have been conceivable in the pages of science
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fiction novel right i mean in somewhere like scotland for example and i mean i know scotland is
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a kind of is a kind of grim place and so it's kind of a bad example but 20 25 percent of all adults in
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scotland are on antidepressants yeah that's one one million people out of four million and then i think
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a further uh a further million are also on other forms of drugs like uh zed drugs anti-anxiety meds
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benzodiazepines all these kind of psychotropic drugs i mean we are medicated yeah to an insane extent i
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mean virtually everybody is taking pills everybody is um is medicated so um you know the the orthodoxies
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of of 20th century uh medicine need to be thrown out they need certainly need to be re-examined but um i
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mean fundamentally i think they need to be thrown out and it's good to see that actually uh hhs under
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rfk junior is prepared to do that i mean he knows he knows i mean i i i i would doubt that our my
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thinking and his thinking on diet and health differ at all really you know he's just he's in a more
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difficult position obviously because he has to oppose competing interests and you know he's he's the
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one who has to push against the medical community and and all these entrenched interests but i think
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fundamentally we we really do align in our thinking and our approaches well i guess that would be the
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question is obviously you outline the history uh obviously when in process which introduced the diet
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you know the the pharmaceutical industry really taking off i guess the question and i think a lot of
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people in the audience would sort of wonder the same thing or debate back and forth how much of that
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was brought into our lives uh out of it for ideological reasons like these people genuinely
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believing a this is better for us or b potentially they wanted to neuter us versus how much of it is
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just business interests like hey i just want to move more grain i don't care what you have to say
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to move the product just say it i mean those to me seem like the two sort of camps i would explain it
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how much is attributed to each would you say it's a complicated thing i mean i i don't think that you
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can just say there was some kind of conspiracy to make us all sick and and dependent and i mean that
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has been the practical effect of everything that's happened in the 20th century without a doubt i mean
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like i say you know we are we are unwell and dependent on pharmaceuticals and and and the medical
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industry to an extent that would have been impossible to imagine i mean if you just look at the
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demonization of cholesterol for example then you can see the involvement the deep involvement of
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corporate interests even from the very beginning so the theory that cholesterol causes heart disease
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which has been the principal justification for abandoning animal foods in our diets is something
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called the lipid heart hypothesis and it was formulated by a man called ansell keys in the 1940s
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now ansell keys presented himself as an expert nutritionist but he really wasn't he worked on the
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k ration he helped make the k ration the famous army ration or military ration that was used by
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american service personnel during world war ii he helped come up with that and then he kind of
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branded himself as a nutritionist anyway heart disease rates were exploding in the u.s in the 1940s and it was
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really the beginning of the kind of uh big upsurge in heart disease and it was becoming a national issue and so
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people were looking for explanations his explanation that he came up with was that it was saturated fat
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consumption and saturated fat and cholesterol consumption are linked and he produced um uh this
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study called the seven country study where he presented results correlations between saturated fat
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consumption and uh heart disease in seven different countries from around the world
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showed a very close correlation very close correlation but why was that because he cherry
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picked the countries so he just picked seven seven countries that had a very close correlation
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he ignored for example a country like france uh they talk about the french paradox because the french
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consume so much butter they consume four times the butter i think it might even be more than four times the
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butter americans consume and yet they have significantly lower rates of heart disease
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um now this was all pointed out at the time actually by his colleagues so he was kind of laughed out of the
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room by his contemporaries they were like look you're you've gerrymandered this data you're just presenting
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a totally selective picture of of um the relationship between saturated fat consumption and heart disease
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this is rubbish and it was rubbish and it was rubbish and it is rubbish but um ancel keys managed to get
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the backing of uh margarine makers and i think in particular proctor and i think it was proctor and
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proctor and gamble i think um uh there were these you know these companies that were trying to market
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new forms of fat that were made basically from industrial waste products and this is one of the things that you
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hear about seed and vegetable oils margarine right is that once upon a time these were industrial waste
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products and then corporations found a way to turn them into edible products and so they started making
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money i mean that is actually true yeah that is actually true so crisco which was the first margarine
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is crystallized cottonseed oil that's where the name comes from right and so cottonseed oil was a byproduct
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of the production of the production of cotton industrially right so they would just have loads
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and loads of cottonseed oil laying around the place and they're like well what can we do with it we can
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use it to um lubricate machinery we can use it as paint thinners and then somebody comes up with this
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industrial process of hydrogenating cottonseed oil to turn it into a semi-solid fat like butter well
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what ansel keys did was he provided the science to justify the consumption of these new um alternative
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fats right and so the margarine producers and i think particularly procter and gamble poured millions
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of dollars into promoting this stuff through organizations like the american heart association
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so i think procter and gamble gave the american heart association a million dollars in in 1940 whatever
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which was a lot of money there right and so you can see from the beginning that actually you know it
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was industrial interests pushing this science and they won they won and the science was accepted over
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the uh objections of large parts of the scientific community i mean this is this is something that you
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don't hear when when you you know people talk about the transition from you know consumption of animal
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facts to these novel industrial facts is that actually loads and loads of scientists at the time said that
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the science was rubbish um it wasn't it wasn't that everybody accepted it it was that that actually
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no lots of scientists didn't accept it but the money won out as is often the case so it's it's a
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complicated thing but of course then once you once you erect a system once you entrench these interests
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it becomes very very difficult to um to to dislodge them and to replace them and so you know this has
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been the orthodoxy for 70 years uh 70 plus years you know um that we need to stop eating animal animal
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foods and we need to uh adopt you know a different kind of diet that's built around healthy plant proteins
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and healthy plant fats in particular um and actually along the way along the way as is often the case
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then when you have this this kind of dominant paradigm conflicting evidence is ignored so there's a very
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very famous example of this called the minnesota coronary study where um basically a large-scale uh double
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blind gold uh double blind uh gold standard um intervention study was done where i think it was
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seven or or maybe 10 um institutions uh health institutions hospitals uh in minnesota substituted
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um vegetable and seed oils uh like sunflower oil that kind of thing for animal fats in the diet of the
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patients now according to the lipid heart hypothesis what would happen is well everyone would live longer
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their health would improve right the complete opposite happened the complete opposite happened
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and actually the scientists behind the study showed that for every i think it was something like
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for every 30 point reduction in cholesterol in blood cholesterol uh the mortality rate doubled or
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something i mean it was something it was crazy like it was the absolutely flew in the face of the of the
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lipid heart hypothesis and the orthodoxy that had been accepted so what happened they did this expensive
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study over a period i don't know maybe of a year might even have been longer than a year cost a lot of money
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took a lot of time they just binned it they binned it because because the results didn't fit and then 30 40
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years later they rediscovered them in this study and were like actually you know what maybe maybe
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they were right and maybe this shouldn't have been um uh hidden from the public but it was simply
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because it didn't fit with the the established narrative and that that's what that's really what
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happens you know you get these entrenched interests uh huge amounts of money now are behind
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i mean however much money there was in making margarine in in the 1930s or 1940s you know we'd
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we're talking you know uh orders of magnitude more now many orders of magnitude you know i mean
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consumption of soybean oil for example has increased the thousand fold over the last century i mean this
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is we're talking about huge amounts of money um so it's uh it's a complicated thing and i think you
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have to look at it historically and understand you know not only like um what led to the initial um
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uh the initial kind of take up of these products but also then you have to understand the kind of
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dynamics that exist within the scientific community within the corporate community within government you
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know i mean these they're all kind of hand in hand they're all hand in glove um uh and so it becomes a
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very very complicated thing actually to really to to do anything and to make any change so
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uh it's a mixture of things it's a mixture of things certainly but uh there's corporate
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interests there's you know i think a lot i think a lot of people in the scientific community also
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genuinely believe in the science um i think they do i don't think that people just push it because
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they think it's because it's convenient or because it serves some ulterior motive i do think there are a
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lot of there are a lot of true believers um and they're very hard to convince and the reaction
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to rfk jr turning the the food pyramid on its head has been well i mean people are talking about about
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big meat you know i mean people are conjuring conjuring up these these phantoms that don't
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even exist to um to try and explain how somebody could ever come to the conclusion that actually you
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know eating animal fat is healthier than eating a byproduct of um cotton manufacture yeah they're
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shadow boxing against like these boogeyman that literally have been completely disarmed over the
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last time it's like totally ridiculous i guess i have one more question for you um obviously people
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have seen the headlines or perhaps even the data sort of indicating that you know when people
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participate in activities like weight lifting or clean eating um they become more right wing
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obviously it's almost a cliche at this point people say that over and over again but you know for my
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analysis it's true because it does produce more testosterone and that's obviously going to make you
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more disagreeable in a good way so then you're going to be able to reject sort of the consensus
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at large uh my question is do you really do you think that uh rfk's sort of decision making here
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with hhs is actually sort of a viable political strategy in which as he sort of unchains the vitality
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of american men we will see more and more men stepping up and saying yet this consensus that we've
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been you know that's been hoisted upon us is absolutely ridiculous they're going to be more
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uh sort of poised to buck the system so to speak oh yeah i mean look uh this is this is one of the
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central one of the central contentions of my new book or certainly one of the one of the things that
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i really talk about in the new book is about uh which is called the last men liberalism and the death
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of masculinity it's out now amazon hardcover kindle and audiobook um uh but you know what one of my
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central theses in that book is that actually testosterone decline is a serious political
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problem uh and we're seeing a civilizational decline in testosterone levels that is in part
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what there are many factors causing it it's partly diet it's partly it's broader lifestyles it's exposure
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to toxic chemicals etc but you know we have we have very good reason to believe that actually
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decline in testosterone is tied to changing political behavior and there's a lot of experimental
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data from uh disciplines like social and personality psychology that shows that if you give a man
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uh a dose of testosterone so there are all these experiments you know where you'll have groups of
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people and one of them will be groups of men and one of them will be given uh testosterone gel and the
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other will be given a placebo and then they'll do some kind of activity that's supposed to show
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uh to demonstrate particular kinds of behavior and what you'll find is that actually if you give
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men a dose of testosterone they do basically become more right-wing you know they display particular
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behaviors that are associated with being right-wing like for example um being okay with hierarchy now
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that's something that social and personality psychologists look at a lot is hierarchy attitudes to hierarchy
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and inequality and it turns out that if you give men a dose of testosterone they're happier with
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hierarchy than they were before um and hierarchy obviously you know is is a fundamental organizing
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principle uh for the right-wing and for conservatives and it's you know a central it's the central target
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of leftist politics is hierarchy the leveling of hierarchy is the leftist project wherever it's found
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uh and there are loads of other studies that i that i talk about actually you know at great length in the
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in the book um i mean yes i i do think that improving the health of the nation and particularly improving
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male health is a winning long-term strategy for the right and should be one that the right should focus
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on i mean it's funny because you know once upon a time health was more or less the province of the left
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actually you know you had hippies and all these kind of crunchy beatnik types you know uh all you know
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eating their organic foods and and um uh their smoothies and talking about raw milk and all that
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kind of stuff well those days are gone now i mean the left the left is explicitly kind of anti this stuff
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actually and it was and it was very interesting during the election campaign to see that there was
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no alternative to rfk jr and the mahar agenda from the democrats they just simply didn't acknowledge it
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um uh they weren't interested in they didn't think it was a winning issue and maybe it maybe it isn't a
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win i in fact i don't think it is a winning issue for the left now because what the left wants to do
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is to foster dependency wants to foster dependency on the state in particular you know i mean you know you
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want a big state you want you want big daddy to or big mommy to to give you everything um then yeah
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it's great to have everybody everybody fat and useless um uh it's great to reduce people's capacity
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to rely on themselves to be to be physically fit and courageous and uh especially for men to have
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testosterone so i do think that this is a yeah that this is a winning i don't think that this is a
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distraction i mean i think that this actually should be a should be and is at the moment at
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least a fundamental part of the right-wing platform and it should remain so going forward
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you know indefinitely i think actually absolutely i totally agree that's great i mean that's it's so
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true i love the the denial of the testosterone studies from the left too the ways they can conjure up
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because they know how much of an indictment really is of their politics but with that we are running out
00:26:52.760
of time but this is so fantastic i really appreciate you hopping on where can people
00:26:56.640
find you where can people find your book they're going to want more so where where can people find
00:27:00.100
you yeah so i'm on i'm on twitter uh baby gravy nine is my unfortunate handle i am the raw egg
00:27:06.480
nationalist baby gravy nine i have a sub stack raw egg stack dot com and my new book the last men
00:27:13.480
liberalism and the death of masculinity is out now from sky horse it's available on amazon as i said in
00:27:20.140
hardcover uh kindle and audiobook format and i will be uh doing a little bit of a book tour
00:27:26.920
over the next couple of weeks in the u.s i'll be appearing on info wars uh doing some live events in
00:27:32.800
new york and washington and maybe la as well so uh pay attention to my twitter if you want to find out
00:27:41.300
details and maybe maybe turn up at one of those events i love it dude thank you so much well i'll catch
00:27:46.180
you next time it's been a pleasure thank you all right well that was the raw egg national just the
00:27:51.740
perfect perfect person to come on and talk about these sorts of things uh yeah it's so true like
00:27:56.900
uh maha as a political vehicle is very real like we're not just doing this for fun like legitimately
00:28:02.420
sorting out uh the people's health is going to be very politically expedient uh testosterone huge
00:28:09.440
crisis uh people are getting fatter and gayer and uh i gotta lock in the book's great i'm just picked
00:28:15.400
up the copy but i gotta lock in and uh just really health max chud max chud maxing takes more than just
00:28:21.600
a mental change it takes a physical change as well so with that you can find me on x and instagram
00:28:27.020
at real tate brown we back tonight for timcast irl at 8 p.m be there or be square and thank you very
00:28:34.740
much for watching we will see you all next time
00:28:40.540
like we will see you starting like this in this first one