Oran McInnes joins me to discuss the DOJ raid at a church in St. Paul, MN, where CNN's Don Lemon was streaming a religious service live on-air. Oran and I discuss how the DOJ should have handled the situation and what they should do in the future.
00:00:00.000But Oran, I'm glad you're here. Everyone, I imagine, in the Temicus audience is quite familiar with who you are.
00:00:04.680But maybe before we launch in, you could give a quick intro for people that maybe aren't.
00:00:08.740Sure. I'm the host of the Oran McIntyre show. I'm on Blaze TV, YouTube, Rumble, all the places you expect.
00:00:14.560Podcast is on Apple, Spotify, all those places. I also write books. I wrote The Total State, write a regular column for Blaze News.
00:00:23.260Amazing. Well, before we get in, I was playing, obviously, all the footage, some of the reaction from across the right.
00:00:28.280And then, obviously, the DOJ's intention to prosecute everyone that was involved in this raid in St. Paul, at this beautiful, beautiful church in St. Paul.
00:00:38.380I wanted to get your reaction to the raid and then maybe sort of articulate what you would like as a response to be.
00:00:46.840I think we're probably on the same page here, but maybe you can outline that a little more.
00:00:50.980Sure. Obviously, this is an incredibly important line that the left has crossed.
00:00:55.520We've seen intimidation before from the left, but this is a direct and obvious violation of several laws, including the FACE Act.
00:01:04.240Now, it seems that Harvey Dillon has announced their intention to actually prosecute Don Lemon under a Ku Klux Klan act, which is fantastic.
00:01:13.900It's hilarious to announce that on Martin Luther King Jr. Day of all days.
00:01:17.700So, top-notch work, very, very fine work.
00:01:21.480Of course, the worry was, as this was unfolding, that the Trump administration would, you know, turn away from charging people, especially Don Lemon.
00:01:30.660Obviously, the left is going to go ballistic.
00:01:32.980They're going to say, oh, it's a journalist. He's a journalist. He's got a First Amendment right to whatever.
00:01:37.660It's all a lie. You have no First Amendment right to enter a building and disrupt a religious service.
00:01:43.500In fact, there are several laws prohibiting exactly that. And it's not just that Don Lemon did this.
00:01:48.000It's not just that he organized this. It's that he went ahead and streamed live every aspect of what he was doing.
00:01:54.680He was streaming live the commission of a federal crime.
00:01:58.740This cannot go unpunished. It's not just that Don Lemon needs to go to jail.
00:02:02.140He needs to go to jail four years. He needs to do real jail time.
00:02:08.200This guy needs to be rotting in prison. This is a unprecedented violation in the left's escalation, and it must pay deeply.
00:02:16.920Yeah. I mean, I've been sort of articulating this point as the situation in Minneapolis has been unfolding.
00:02:22.860And the point I'm making, and you'll probably be in agreement, is it's imperative that the Trump administration sends a message now with this situation.
00:02:29.560Because, again, this is, A, setting the tone for three years, and it could be a massive victory, again, for the base, these sorts of things.
00:02:35.300But, B, this is the leftists kind of sizing up the Trump administration right now.
00:02:39.460That's what's going on. They want to see what exactly they're able to get away with.
00:02:42.520Because, obviously, in Trump 1, and obviously without the Biden administration, they weren't able to operate with a degree of impunity.
00:02:47.980I mean, you'd see some arrests, and they would get released a few days later.
00:02:51.140You certainly didn't see any high-profile arrests, even though we're still waiting on some high-profile arrests in Trump 2.
00:02:55.600But, like you said, this is a different level here.
00:03:01.360Because when you're seeing these people interact with ICE agents, you know, brawling with ICE agents or police or any other three-letter agency,
00:03:07.660as Americans, we're kind of like, okay, well, that's clearly the left sort of combating with the government.
00:03:12.640It's a degree removed from us to some aspect.
00:03:16.100It's when you see it in a church, especially people on the right, obviously, you know, lots of devout Christians.
00:03:21.120I mean, I myself grew up a Southern Baptist.
00:03:23.540So when I see that, I'm like, that could have been my congregation.
00:03:27.260When I see the way those people speak and the way that they respond to Don Lemon with a very gracious, loving kind of attitude,
00:03:33.380it just takes me back to church growing up.
00:04:26.680And the same thing here with the church.
00:04:29.060It's another scenario, as you said, where when leftists are brawling with ICE, everyone can Monday morning quarterback.
00:04:36.340Whether this ICE agent thought he was going to get run over, they're wrong.
00:04:39.120This was an attempted murder, and the woman absolutely deserved to be shot, and her girlfriend should be in jail for encouraging that assault.
00:04:48.960However, we do understand that ICE agents are taking on a certain level of risk when they involve themselves in that job.
00:04:56.340Once it breaks into places of worship, we're now talking about leftists hunting down and intimidating innocent people.
00:05:02.860And to be really clear, if they could have shot those people, they would have.
00:05:06.400Like, don't fool yourself for a minute.
00:05:29.480Those people should have been physically removed from the building, and if they attempted violence, they should have been met with lethal force.
00:06:14.320I mean, Nathan Halberstadt, a friend of the show, he actually made a really great point.
00:06:18.320This is the most obvious sort of crux of really what the left is all about here, with their sort of reign of terror 2.0, is this attack represented the two things that they're seeking to undermine specifically, which is the Christian faith.
00:06:30.860Again, it's the historic faith of the United States.
00:06:33.200Again, the Southern Baptist Church is pretty much as American as you can possibly get.
00:06:36.040It is like this unique synthesis of Christianity that, again, like reflects Middle America in the most obvious way possible.
00:06:44.660So you really have this attack on Heritage Americans in many regards through the church.
00:06:49.460But then also, what is this all about?
00:06:55.940So it really is this obvious crux of the two things the left really wants to undermine the most, which is, again, the historic Christian faith of the American people, and then the historic composition of the United States through immigration, these sorts of things.
00:07:09.300I mean, again, to your point, I mean, these churches need to kind of understand what time it is.
00:07:14.340I mean, I can understand why up until now, so to speak, a lot of these churches are sitting back and saying, okay, well, it's so random that, you know, maybe we don't have to worry about it.
00:07:21.700But I'd go back to, like, even, like, the Sutherland Spring shooting a few years ago in Texas.
00:07:25.440I think at that moment, a lot of these churches really needed to have conversations about security, like, hey, I don't know if it's TSA level, but we certainly need to have plan of action here.
00:07:33.740These conversations need to be happening.
00:07:35.300Yeah, I think we all saw the picture from the video of that young girl crying in the arms of her parents, scared of these people breaking into her church, and that simply cannot be allowed to stand in the United States of America.
00:07:49.100I will not allow – this cannot happen, okay?
00:07:51.560My church, personally, not only has a security team, they have off-duty cops and military constantly watching entrances and exits to make sure that everyone is safe.
00:08:04.160Church members are directly involved in the armed security of the church, along with a large percentage of the males in the congregation being armed.
00:08:13.260You, American Christian, I'm talking to you right now.
00:08:16.480It is your duty as a man to get a firearm, train with that firearm, and be armed in your house of worship, prepared to repel violent leftists, period.
00:08:30.280I am glad the government is taking action.
00:08:31.860We should allow them to resolve the issue through color of law first, but it is also your personal responsibility to prepare, not just to protect yourself, but your house of worship.
00:08:43.260The people in your congregation are counting on you.
00:08:46.040No more, oh, I don't know what I can do.
00:08:47.780I don't know how I can be part of a solution.
00:08:55.040I mean, because the government, again, the DOJ, even if the DOJ is a slam dunk here, they knock us out of the park, the incident still happened.
00:09:00.960This is still after the fact, mopping up the mess.
00:09:03.700Christians across the United States need to be ready because this is going to continue.
00:09:08.240Again, when the left, what do they hate most?
00:09:10.460I don't know if you saw the clip on the – I know it was in Britain, but that's sort of the same vibe going on.
00:09:15.140The BBC in Britain, they had, I don't know, some sort of musician on, and he credited Christ as, like, his largest inspiration.
00:09:21.560And the interviewer literally hissed at him.
00:09:24.040Like, these people – again, I don't want to go, like, full Tucker and, like, you know, everything, but –
00:09:31.160Yeah, there's a massive demonic force moving over the West broadly, but specifically in the United States.
00:09:37.540And so you just see that, and it's, like, Christians watching this, you know, Southern Baptist, Presbyterian, Catholic, whatever you are, Mormon –
00:09:44.120I mean, I don't know if they're on the team, but, you know, Mormons – not to start a theological dispute, but if you're watching, like, you need to be ready.
00:09:50.440You need to believe these people when they tell you these things.
00:10:02.960He has a strong friend-enemy distinction, and you as a Christian, you as an American, is not a friend, certainly not in the friend distinction.
00:11:16.000If the First Amendment means anything, it has to mean something here.
00:11:19.080Again, first and foremost, the government needs to take action.
00:11:21.940I am glad to hear strong rhetoric on this, but we have to see conversion into real meaningful penalties, not slaps on the wrist, not house arrest, not a fine, hard jail time.
00:11:34.160Every single one of these people, hard jail time.
00:11:37.180If that doesn't happen, then you're leaving it in the hands of the parishioners.
00:13:00.580You're nowhere close to what we're talking about here.
00:13:03.660But it's starting to get to the point where it seems like the left is actually kind of giving up themselves.
00:13:07.860Maybe not giving up, but they're just being forthright with the fact that, no.
00:13:10.780So when people on the right, like I put a tweet out before the show where I'm like, I just don't really know how we can live in the same country with these people anymore.
00:14:09.880And the fact that they were issuing statements like that just before this happened shows you how dangerous weak leaders are, okay?
00:14:19.100I've liked stuff from guys like Bishop Barron, but there is no excuse, zero excuse for siding with the Bolsheviks, giving them comfort, or in any way, any way, standing against the enforcement of the law in the face of their terror.
00:14:34.340It is unacceptable from any church leader.
00:14:36.260If your pastor is in any way in the pulpit excusing this this weekend, you need to speak out, okay?
00:14:44.420You need to tell your church this is not okay.
00:14:47.300We need to stand strong against this, and I don't want to see anyone from the Southern Baptists to the Catholics saying anything different.
00:14:53.620This is a gross violation of the First Amendment, a direct attack on our freedom as Americans, a persecution of Christians, and it will not stand.
00:15:02.040So I hope that this speaks directly to church leadership.
00:15:04.880There cannot be any weakness in this area.
00:15:07.860I mean, if you're a church leader, whether you're, again, Southern Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, and you're sitting back and you're scratching your head, like, how have we lost so much ground over the last few decades?
00:15:15.280You know, why are so many people not finding value?
00:15:18.340I mean, I know these things are reversing to some degree with tumors, but by and large, Americans, again, have sort of abandoned Christianity in a lot of regards, and they're sitting around scratching their heads.
00:15:25.940It's like, because of that, of this weakness, of this just meekness and this, again, just constantly trying to capitulate grounds the left, hoping that maybe if you just give them enough, then they'll be able to leave us alone.
00:15:39.020Central to their belief, they see Christianity as a roadblock.
00:15:42.380They see it as an imposing force, and they correctly have identified it as, again, the thing holding them back from total liberation, you know, these sorts of things.
00:15:51.540Because, again, they're just an anti-Western, anti-human force.
00:15:54.760And so it's like, as Christians, again, maybe borrow a youth with a stand on business.
00:16:22.280They feel like they don't have their hand on the wheel.
00:16:23.880You know what you can do to provide some people some security is reflect Christ's values in your church, which is strength, which is order, and, again, which is standing on truth.
00:17:13.340The federal government can file its charges, but it has to go get arrest warrants from judges and everything else.
00:17:18.340It has to act slower because per federalism, per the Constitution, this is a state and local matter unless it has to become a federal matter.
00:17:27.940And so the immediate response should have come from the state, should have come from local governments.
00:17:31.420But they are quite literally insurrectionists right now.
00:17:34.980They are ignoring their duty to care for and protect the people of their state, which is why we need reconstruction in Minneapolis, why we need it in Minnesota.
00:17:45.740We need the federal government to take charge.
00:17:49.400It's time for the federal government to take control of law enforcement in that state.
00:17:54.360But until then, Army Dillon, obviously, and Pam Bondi should be working to put every one of these people in jail for as long as humanly possible.
00:18:02.360Again, I cannot stress enough how important it is these people do not get slaps on the wrist.
00:18:19.760I mean, because, you know, a lot of people in the space have been calling for arrests of these more high-profile figures that, again, are instigating these incidents that are cheering it on, that in this case are directly, like, abetting the, again, this raid into this church.
00:18:31.300And a lot of people are saying, well, look at all these arrests they're making, you know, at the lower level.
00:18:35.060Look, they are putting away a lot of these guys.
00:18:49.140They're looking at these sorts of people, again, as the leaders, the figureheads of what they're trying to do.
00:18:54.020And it's like until you hold those people accountable at the high levels, again, at their top level, their top brass, it's going to be really difficult to communicate to these people that this is not acceptable.
00:19:03.660Again, and, you know, Trump, too, this is a different ballgame, new sheriff in town.
00:19:09.020And, yeah, until we get those high-profile arrests, I don't know how you can really communicate to these people because, again, like I said, they're not really too concerned if Joe Schmoe gets wrapped up.
00:19:17.280They can, you know, compartmentalize that.
00:19:20.260But when Don Lemon gets marched out in handcuffs in front of a courthouse, that's how you send a message.
00:19:24.960That's how you communicate to these people, enough.
00:19:26.540Your reign of terror is coming to a close.
00:19:29.580Yeah, Steve Bannon went to jail, and nobody cared that he had one of the biggest shows on the right.
00:19:52.040There can't be this double standard where leftist high-profile figures have some immunity towards their political actions, but the right can get thrown in jail on every single tiny little bit of this.
00:20:02.740We all saw as the left went after Douglas Mackey and sentenced him to prison for making a meme.
00:20:09.220You cannot let Douglas Mackey get sentenced to prison for making a meme and then let Don Lemon go free after leading a federal raid against a church committing federal crimes.
00:20:21.860This simply cannot be allowed to stand.
00:20:23.960Like I said, I'm glad to hear that the Trump administration is planning to do this.
00:20:28.080I understand it takes a few days, given the necessities of the system.
00:20:32.420I just want, I think everyone rightly is a little concerned.
00:20:36.600I think we've all seen the administration drop the ball on these things, not get it done, not, not, not get across the goal line.
00:20:43.340We've had promises made about going after NGOs, Antifa, all this stuff, you know, high profile people.
00:20:48.720None of it has ultimately come to fruition.
00:20:51.000So I hear people saying, well, this one isn't going to happen either.
00:21:16.740So I am, again, encouraged to see the Trump administration talking tough and taking action, but the conversion here must be complete.
00:21:25.960Nothing, nothing can keep them from continuing this act, continuing this prosecution, because the consequences of dropping the ball this time, it can be the last time.
00:21:55.740Like you, you don't just mop this up by arresting a few radicals.
00:21:58.740It's like, this is an element in our country that is a massive, massive proportion of the country.
00:22:03.900And again, like these high profile arrests, this isn't like the first term, or maybe you could perceive them as maybe like red meat for the base, which I do think they're actually, it would have been consequential in the long term if we made these arrests.
00:22:13.520But, you know, I can see like, okay, arresting Hillary Clinton.
00:22:25.280Cause I mean, to your point, again, this is just going to continue.
00:22:28.500You're going to get Minneapolis, Portland, Seattle.
00:22:30.160These cities are going to be like this in perpetuity.
00:22:32.380And then who knows it'll, it could spread.
00:22:33.920I mean, you know, these red state governors are doing a better job, obviously, of sort of utilizing local law enforcement, but it's not a guarantee that that holds for long.
00:22:42.480I mean, these, these police departments only have so many resources at a certain point, it just gets out of hand.
00:22:46.900And then we end up with South Africa or Brazil or something along those lines.
00:22:50.460And that's a reality that could literally occur in this decade.