The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #13 - Anthony Bellotti, EXPOSING Dr. Fauci Corruption And COVID Lab Leak

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00:00:59.300 Censorship, government corruption, non-profit corruption, animal experimentation.

00:01:07.740 We got so much to talk about. Private corporation censorship.

00:01:11.260 There's a whole lot going on, and I'm being joined by Anthony Bellotti of White Coat Waste Project.

00:01:18.700 There's just too much. There's too much. This is amazing.

00:01:20.780 I think the first things to kind of rope you in and explain where we're going with this is

00:01:26.500 what was Dr. Fauci doing over the past decade of several decades?

00:01:31.160 What's going on with lab leak, COVID, et cetera, corruption at non-profits and how the biggest

00:01:36.500 NGOs advocating for the biggest causes are actually not really trying to solve these problems.

00:01:41.540 What's happening with censorship? We're going to hit all of it.

00:01:44.400 So thanks for hanging out, man. Do you want to introduce yourself?

00:01:46.880 Thanks, Tim. It's wonderful to be here.

00:01:48.880 I am Anthony Bellotti. I am the president and founder of White Coat Waste,

00:01:53.220 a project to get the U.S. government out of the animal testing business.

00:01:58.620 Or as I like to joke, we save puppies and kittens from wasteful government spending,

00:02:03.320 20 billion of it.

00:02:04.520 Well, right there, there was that story about the dog torture that Anthony Fauci had.

00:02:09.760 Explain this to me because I don't want to get it wrong, but Anthony Fauci story,

00:02:14.140 beagles, what was this?

00:02:15.200 It was arguably one of the two biggest investigations we ever did and launched.

00:02:21.020 The Fauci's beagles, monkey tests, the beagle tests.

00:02:25.220 Monkey Island.

00:02:25.880 Monkey Island. Tim Cast exposed that first. That was our FOIA investigation. And then,

00:02:30.820 of course, we were the first organization to expose U.S. taxpayer money for animal testing at

00:02:37.080 the Wuhan lab. So, you know, two of the biggest things we're known for are Beaglegate,

00:02:43.640 Fauci's beagle experiments, and, yeah, the Wuhan lab leak money.

00:02:47.460 I definitely want to start off with the lab leak, Wuhan, and all that stuff, because I think

00:02:53.520 everyone's just, they really want to know as much as possible about that. But just for some context,

00:02:57.400 to understand, I think, the depravity of what a man like Fauci was doing, wasn't part of it,

00:03:04.620 they would expose beagles to carnivorous flies that would eat them alive?

00:03:12.280 Yes. Many times. Many labs. There wasn't just one lab. You know, I think we're up to eight

00:03:19.840 so-called Beaglegate labs, give or take. I'm in the business and I'm losing track of how many there

00:03:26.080 have been. So you're correct. Back in, actually in 2016, the very first, one of the very first labs

00:03:36.440 we ever exposed was a Fauci beagle experiment with sand flies, the, you're talking about the

00:03:44.060 carnivorous feeding dogs to, to flies. Live. Live dogs, beagle dogs, no pain relief, no anesthesia,

00:03:52.400 in which they, they feed them alive to carnivorous flies. Wow.

00:03:59.400 That was one of the very first experiments we ever exposed. We didn't even, we weren't even thinking

00:04:05.020 Dr. Fauci at the time. It was, it was a lab. They were doing the experiments on at NIAID,

00:04:09.960 the national, at the, at the, at the National Institutes of Health, Fauci's NIAID, in-house.

00:04:15.300 He was doing it in-house. And so, and then, but the ones, the ones that went thermonuclear,

00:04:22.340 that became the talk of the town, that didn't happen for another five years, right? So fast forward

00:04:29.200 from 2016 to 2021, we exposed it yet again, another variation on a theme in which they were feeding

00:04:38.960 dogs to flies, but this time outsourcing it to the University of Georgia. Okay. So they were doing

00:04:45.420 the same thing. They're over the span of, a span of five years or longer. They just keep feeding dogs

00:04:51.600 alive to carnivorous flies. On the taxpayer's dime, repeating the same thing over and over again.

00:04:56.780 They're, they're putting dogs in like a sealed space container cage or whatever with

00:05:01.820 hordes of flies that just start eating them. Yes. Why? Well, they were doing, I mean, look,

00:05:09.720 LI is the name of the disease. It's a tropical disease. And, and long story short, it's, it's,

00:05:16.060 it's one of the, it's a terrible disease, but you know, Americans don't get it. I mean,

00:05:19.660 they just don't, but we're paying for it for the, for the, for the, the so-called research. And

00:05:25.160 they were, you know, the, the, they put the capsule on the dog full of what they call,

00:05:32.080 they, they, they deprive the flies of food. So they're hungry, right? They don't give them food

00:05:37.200 for, for a number of days. So they're extra hungry. And then, yeah, they, they, there's

00:05:42.380 no other way to put a container of the flies onto the dog's body. Correct. And then the flies have

00:05:46.600 nothing, nothing to eat, but just the flesh of the dog right there. Correct. Man.

00:05:50.280 On their ears. Starting off so dark. So anyway, so, you know, it is dark. I mean, it, it's look,

00:05:56.880 white coat waste is a project to get the government out of wasteful spending on animal testing. But

00:06:01.460 this, the kind of experiments we're talking about, they range from the sadistic feeding dogs to flies

00:06:09.340 to the silly, uh, monkey smoking crack, uh, or, or rats, rats, rats vaping on, you know,

00:06:18.400 Juul, um, devices. Monkeys smoking crack. Sure. Uh, or cocaine and, you know, uh, uh, uh, nicotine

00:06:26.680 addiction experiments. They, they run the gamut, right? Man. From sadism to silliness. Stupid.

00:06:34.040 Stupid, stupid, but also significant. That's the other word S word here. I mean, that's

00:06:39.080 gain of function. I mean, it, it's, it's, it, it, it may not be silly or, or, or stupid, but

00:06:44.640 uh, or excuse me, sadistic might not be the word you'd use, but significant.

00:06:49.580 This is, uh, exactly where it goes. We can talk about why people should pay attention to wasteful

00:06:55.380 government spending. We can talk about why they should pay attention to wasteful government spending

00:06:59.200 on animal experimentation. And I'm sure there's a lot of arguments for, you know, we want to cure

00:07:03.800 diseases and things like that. I'm sure we'll get into the philosophical of that in a minute,

00:07:07.220 but where it goes is bat coronavirus testing. And then what do you end up with? You end up with a

00:07:13.160 lab leak. You end up with global lockdowns, right? The degree of irresponsibility, reckless,

00:07:20.440 negligent behavior on an unprecedented scale, all because they, they want to do these, these

00:07:26.320 ridiculous experiments to gain marginal knowledge. But you know what I think a lot of it is

00:07:31.180 they want grant money. And so they're like, Oh, we're going to, uh, we're going to give a monkey

00:07:35.840 crack. And they're like, how much do you need? $5 million. Sure. Well, you said it and it's, it's,

00:07:43.600 it's ghostbusters that famous scene in ghostbusters where if you, anybody who's seen the movie,

00:07:51.360 know, this is this great scene where, uh, Dan Aykroyd's character is talking with a bill

00:07:57.180 Murray's character. And I think they just, they just lost their public funding, right?

00:08:02.540 Presumably a government grant. I don't, I don't recall exactly, but they lost their public funding.

00:08:06.600 That was the point, Tim, you don't know what it's like to work in the private sector.

00:08:11.640 They demand results. You don't know. I mean, it, there's a lot of pressure. Like you actually

00:08:16.240 have to come up with cures and produce a result. We weren't used to that in the government. It just

00:08:21.340 went on and on for years. That's what they say, right? Exactly. But the, that that's the,

00:08:25.580 but the, the main point is that these grants, Fauci's, Beagle experiments, uh, uh, eco health

00:08:33.360 grants for the Wuhan lab, these things go on for years and years for a reason.

00:08:38.080 I read, uh, a long time ago that we spent millions of dollars to try and figure out a

00:08:42.360 fish feel pain. We concluded that they do. It's always like, dude.

00:08:48.260 And this is not a new phenomenon, right? I mean, monkey Island, which, you know, we lit up

00:08:52.060 and exposed here a couple of years ago. I mean, these things have been going on for years now.

00:08:55.580 Sometimes decades, no results to show for it or stupid results that are pointless, right?

00:09:02.280 Fish feel pain. Monkeys don't like to smoke. Monkeys get addicted to crack, et cetera, et

00:09:06.920 cetera. But it's taken on a new significance. Now with, uh, with Wuhan, we can see the danger

00:09:15.860 of reckless, just negligence, focusing on this and making sure that we have keen oversight

00:09:25.100 because of something like one. Like if we, if we hear something like they're doing experiments on

00:09:31.240 fish or dogs or whatever, a lot of people might be like, well, you know, I don't like that, but

00:09:34.480 well, you don't like it, but where does it go? It goes to Wuhan. It goes to bat coronavirus research.

00:09:39.740 It goes to gain a function research. And then you get a oopsie. Now everybody's sick. So this is

00:09:45.140 something that I think everybody should, honestly, literally every person in the world, but it's

00:09:50.700 something we should have, like, it should be higher up on the list of priorities, especially

00:09:55.500 with hindsight being 2020 and Wuhan. So let's, let's, let's jump to Wuhan. Yeah. Early on, there

00:10:01.560 was a paper released from, I think it was at South China university or Beijing, some university where

00:10:07.440 they said in this paper that bats at the Wuhan lab had bitten and urinated on researchers. And that

00:10:14.140 is very likely that COVID was leaked in this way. And, uh, it was quickly rescinded and, uh, people

00:10:22.640 in the United States started saying, oh, see, they, they retracted that study. And it's like, okay,

00:10:26.020 you mean to tell me in a communist country, well, whatever, pseudo communist, whatever you want to

00:10:30.620 call China, that researchers said, this thing probably happened. And then went, oh wait, no,

00:10:34.820 nevermind. And I'm supposed to believe no, no, no. I think the Chinese government just said,

00:10:38.200 we're not taking the heat from this one. Blame it on somebody else through this grant corruption

00:10:44.720 process where people are just like, give us the money. You end up with Fauci being like, I won't

00:10:49.100 take responsibility for what I funded. You end up with Peter Daszak saying, I'm not taking responsibility

00:10:53.080 for this and a strong economic incentive to deny any involvement. And because they delayed,

00:11:00.620 on reporting what, what really may have been the core, uh, uh, what, what, what, what may have

00:11:06.820 started this, it put us back months or years in terms of figuring out how we could prevent it and

00:11:11.800 how to respond to it because a handful of, I'm just going to say, I think these people are evil

00:11:17.040 to, they could have come out with honor and said, guys, we screwed up. Here's everything we have on

00:11:23.680 this. Hopefully this prevents the worst from happening. Instead, they said, don't look at me.

00:11:27.940 Then the media comes out lies to protect them. Nobody wants to take responsibility and the world

00:11:33.500 suffered because of it. You said it. What if, what if they said, look, what started with noble

00:11:42.780 intentions, we were trying to prevent the next pandemic. Okay. It was a high risk, high reward

00:11:50.340 scenario. This gain of function stuff. We're going to try and we're going to do these experiments on

00:11:54.620 humanized mice, animal experiments, rounding up wild bats full of deadly diseases and transporting

00:12:02.140 back to places like Wuhan experiment started with noble intentions. We were trying to accelerate the

00:12:08.280 pace of vaccine development and cures. And you know what? It, it, it, it backfired. We, we, we, we now

00:12:15.520 know that we have to get our hands around this with public policy for the future. That's not what they

00:12:19.500 did. No, what they did was exactly, they covered it up and they called us conspiracy theorists.

00:12:25.880 They, they censored us. They, they flat out said it's impossible that this was a lab leak. This

00:12:31.580 didn't happen. It couldn't have happened. I mean, it happened to our investigation. Who was the guy

00:12:37.100 who initially came out and said, it looks like a lab leak. And then he gets a call from Fauci and he

00:12:40.720 goes, Oh yeah, it wasn't one at one of the, one of the, uh, one of the got one of the minions, one of

00:12:46.360 the white coats on Fauci's payroll for, you know, it, it's one of the virologists on, on one of these

00:12:53.100 guys, these Dan Aykroyd types and Ghostbusters, you know, uh, you don't on the payroll for many

00:12:58.420 years. And that's exactly what happened. One of, one of these grantees spotted it. We now know that

00:13:04.820 from the FOIA investigation, the freedom of information act releases that, Hey, you know, this thing

00:13:09.880 doesn't, this thing looks engineered. This does, this looks a little suspicious. It could be, you

00:13:13.620 know, could be manipulated in a, in a, in a lab. Well, we find out about that. What two years after

00:13:19.440 the fact, give or take. Yeah. But they did, they could have said, they could have come out and said,

00:13:25.280 look, you know, when you make nuclear weapons, you get a broken arrow once in a while. And an

00:13:30.300 accident happens. It, it's, it doesn't mean it was nefarious. If accidents happen, we got to clean

00:13:36.260 it up now. That's not what they did. Why do dangerous, what is it? Uh, BSL. Is that what

00:13:43.280 it's? Biosecurity lab. Yeah. Biosecurity lab, uh, four in a major metropolitan area.

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00:15:18.860 Bigger than New York City. I mean, it is. Well, you said it. It's funny because Fauci, I believe,

00:15:25.780 was the one who said, well, you know, if when you do this kind of research, you don't want to do it in

00:15:28.660 Brooklyn. So they did it in a city that was bigger than Brooklyn. Well, but it's China. So

00:15:32.880 he's like, I don't care. Well, you know, I mean, it's, it's what happens in China. It doesn't stay

00:15:40.140 in China, does it? Exactly. So it's Spanish flu. Actually, I think one of the theories is that it

00:15:46.340 originated in China. And then when it made its way to Europe in World War I, with all of the filth

00:15:53.180 and grime unsanitary conditions, people got really sick. And with weakened immune systems,

00:16:00.120 you're in war. They start rapidly spreading Spanish flu when, then it makes its way to the

00:16:06.360 United States. When it made its way back to China, nobody really noticed because they already had

00:16:10.880 immunity to a similar strain before it, you know, mutated into what it was. So anyway, I digress.

00:16:18.400 Uh, but the core of this is bringing these harvesting and rounding up wild animals, wild

00:16:25.260 bats from remote places where they live, transporting them thousands of miles into very densely populated

00:16:34.900 labs in, in, in Asia, in China, in Wuhan, where cities of millions and millions and millions of people

00:16:44.780 with no oversight, no security, no, uh, protections. And, and, and it's a recipe for disaster,

00:16:52.800 you know, we, and, and it's happening all over the world. It's, you know, the white coat waste

00:16:56.900 project has been doing these FOIAs since the start into the NIH.

00:17:00.740 Well, so what did, what did you find with Wuhan? You, you, you guys did these FOIAs that, that

00:17:08.380 brought this information to light that they were doing gain of function, that they brought the bats

00:17:11.960 in. Did, what was it, uh, uh, you guys who did the FOIA that found that the Fauci's-

00:17:17.380 That was terrific. Our gain of function pause has been, uh, lifted Peter Daszak saying that

00:17:21.640 that was us, you know, we, that happened a couple of years, you know, that happened, that came out

00:17:25.940 in the fall of 21 about, you know, a year and a half before the first give or take before our

00:17:33.580 first investigation in April of 2020. But that particular FOIA, when Peter Daszak skirting on

00:17:40.160 the band, when Fauci skirted the funding band for gain of function, Peter Daszak, the smoke, the smoking

00:17:45.300 gun email saying that's terrific. Our gain of function pause has been lifted, but he was, he

00:17:50.760 wasn't saying it was literally lifted. He was saying the workaround is allowing us functionally.

00:17:55.440 So, so creating the same effect basically. I mean, it's, this is a conspiracy. It is crazy. And yet we

00:18:02.280 were called the conspiracy theorists. We were the conspiracy theorists, but, but you, but you were, I

00:18:07.500 mean, this is funny, right? The, the idea of conspiracy theory is no longer that you hypothesize and

00:18:14.040 produce evidence as towards an educated guess as to what a group of people may be doing in a fair,

00:18:19.940 in a nefarious context. Now it just means like you're crazy. Conspiracy theorists means crazy.

00:18:25.500 We've forgotten what it means. The definition is take it. People forget what conspiracy is,

00:18:29.580 right? A conspiracy is what two people behind closed doors colluding to do something, you know,

00:18:34.580 it's not a myth, but, but it's taken on this, this definition that it's a conspiracy theory means

00:18:39.820 false. Right. So you guys, FOIA, government, and these, uh, these, these, uh, other agencies

00:18:47.340 find evidence. They're knowingly engaging in this band of practice with a workaround.

00:18:54.760 My favorite was when Rand Paul questioned Fauci and he said in your paper, it says gain of function

00:19:01.000 research. And he goes, no, I just, I love how Fauci gets around this. You know, Rand Paul's like,

00:19:07.460 Dr. Fauci, do you have a door on your house? And he goes, I do not have a door. I have a hole in a

00:19:13.460 wall with a wooden object on hinges that you're describing a door. Yeah. He describes gain of

00:19:19.600 function and then says, it's not absolutely remarkable. These, these, these people colluded

00:19:24.320 behind closed doors to bypass government restrictions. And then when they, when this

00:19:29.720 problem emerged, conspired behind closed doors to cover it up. Absolutely. And it's, it's, well,

00:19:35.740 you said it a few minutes ago, it's taken animal testing. The problem is taken on another level.

00:19:42.200 Now it doesn't, you know, we used to say, it doesn't matter if you like puppies, maybe not

00:19:46.940 everybody likes monkeys or puppies or kittens. A lot of us do, but not everybody does. Then we would

00:19:52.080 say, well, even if you don't really care about animals, don't really like them. Do you care about

00:19:56.480 your taxpayer dollars being, you are forced Tim forced to pay for this, whether you like it or not.

00:20:02.560 And that would get another share of the, of the, of the public to come inside with us.

00:20:07.020 But now it's taken on a different, it's gone from low politics to high politics, so to speak,

00:20:11.720 right? It's not a kiddie table issue anymore. Animal gain of function research is animal research,

00:20:19.100 right? The Wuhan lab is an animal lab. It's a taxpayer funded lab. So it's just taken on a whole

00:20:25.840 nother level. Can you explain how they do gain of function research? Yeah, sure. So, you know,

00:20:30.600 we ran Paul at the hearing talking about humanized mice, the idea of gain of function. That's what

00:20:37.080 we're talking about. It's taking, it's taking a natural occurring virus from, from a bat or,

00:20:45.480 or, you know, harvesting the wild strains, uh, transporting them into the animal lab,

00:20:51.920 passaging it through a humanized mouse, which has mimicking how, uh, human lungs, right? We engineer

00:21:00.700 the mice or the rodents or the animals in cruel, horrible ways to, uh, mimic how a human, human lungs

00:21:08.160 and receptors would, would respond to the purpose of making the, making the virus either more transmissible

00:21:15.440 or more virulent or both, um, accelerating the path, you know, through the passaging of the natural bat virus

00:21:23.440 into this humanized mouse, uh, to, to, to take on new properties that the virus did not have.

00:21:30.560 So what are they, they're, they're in, what do they do that cough on the mouse? Do they, uh,

00:21:36.480 take an infected mouse? Do they put it with the bats?

00:21:40.320 Well, they take the infected, the infected bat and put it through the, uh, transgenic or, uh, uh,

00:21:46.400 mice. So, so, so kind of the opposite, I mean, you can do both, but it's, it's what they do is they

00:21:51.600 take it from the bat and put it in, put it through passage, serial passaging through a mouse or a rodent

00:21:57.760 or another creature to again, develop new properties. I don't know if you know the specifics,

00:22:02.800 but do they like inject the mouse with a virus or do they like, how does it get from the bat to the

00:22:08.960 mouse? I I'm, I'm not, you know, I, uh, injection or, or, uh, you know, or, uh, other, other ways to,

00:22:21.360 infuse the strains, but the only thing I've read about it is that they take an infected bat

00:22:27.600 they find in the wild and they put it in a cage with a bunch of other bats and then the disease

00:22:32.240 spreads. And then I guess they, they'll wait for certain symptoms to emerge. Then they'll take that

00:22:38.560 bat, put it in another cage with a bunch of other bats. So that specific strain spreads.

00:22:42.720 And so they keep amplifying the most serious strains.

00:22:46.960 And it's not just done with, you know, humanized mice and bats is, is obviously the Wuhan lab,

00:22:52.240 but ferrets are another, are another model they use for, for, for gain of function research here

00:22:57.840 for like, uh, influenza and, and those strains. Um, let me, sorry to just, yeah, sure. But I,

00:23:03.440 I want to stress this one right here. You mentioned the influenza.

00:23:05.360 So there, there are multiple ways to do this. This is what gain of function.

00:23:08.560 I think the reason why this conversation may be one of the most important, uh, or the work you're doing,

00:23:14.400 be it with me or a conversation with anybody else,

00:23:17.120 they have transmitted avian flu into mammals through gain of function research in the past

00:23:23.200 several years. And we have now started to see this emerge. And I think it was, what was it?

00:23:28.480 Um, what, uh, what was it? Seals or something? There's a, there was a, I think a mink, there were

00:23:34.400 some ferrets. They, they transmitted this virus through gain of function research into mammals,

00:23:40.320 which normally infects birds. And I believe the mortality rate is 60% in humans. Um,

00:23:46.320 now they, they say like, oh, but we did this just in case it happens. Like you made it happen.

00:23:51.440 The argument is if we can do this research now and create the strain that infects humans,

00:23:56.800 we can make a vaccine now so that if it ever does mutate, we'll have the vaccine in advance.

00:24:02.240 And my, I'm just thinking, I get that, but that's like, that's like putting your life savings

00:24:08.480 on double zero on a roulette wheel. You're gonna lose.

00:24:11.600 It, it, it seems to me to make, it makes the most sense that if a person, if, if the, if the virus

00:24:19.120 jumps to a human, you then go to that human and say, we need to take some blood samples.

00:24:24.000 We're going to try and isolate this virus to make a vaccine for it now. And with the antibodies being

00:24:28.400 developed by the person creating the virus, it's like you, it's a, well, a nuclear war might happen.

00:24:35.120 So let's start it now and just see what happens.

00:24:36.880 And that, and that, and that's the irony of this whole thing in an effort to prevent

00:24:40.800 the next pandemic, we caused the pandemic most likely that's what happened. And, but, but Tim,

00:24:47.200 what if they just came out and said, look, what started as noble intentions here, this started,

00:24:52.800 we did, we were trying to prevent the next pandemic, right? SARS one was a near miss 20 years

00:24:57.600 ago, give or take we, well, we, we, we, we got this whole gain of function thing going.

00:25:02.080 Sure. It was a little bit high risk. They didn't do that. They didn't come and come clean. They

00:25:06.960 didn't, they didn't just tell us, you look, we were trying that. They, they lied and they covered

00:25:11.520 it up and they locked us down. Yes. And all the world, if it all, that's, it's all came from that.

00:25:17.280 I mean, and, and then we saw the, the, the, the, uh, repercussions such as Cuomo putting

00:25:24.400 COVID patients in nursing homes and not just Cuomo, but a bunch of other governors in various states

00:25:29.280 resulting in the death of many of our, uh, of our elders. And, uh, look, I'll, I'll, if they,

00:25:35.760 if they built a BSL four lab in the Mojave desert, and it was an hour drive in any direction to, to an,

00:25:42.720 any, any urban center, I'd say, well, you know, like it's in the middle of nowhere. Uh, there should

00:25:48.240 be, there should be protocols beyond the standard biosafety lab for protocol. In my opinion, for

00:25:54.000 after someone is leaving, there should be an, like an isolation period or something like that.

00:25:59.920 Like you should go in and you should be quarantined while you're working in these places.

00:26:03.520 If, if, if I could, I could, I could be down with something like that in terms of,

00:26:09.120 we're going to do research on a virus. Nobody can, you know, we're in the middle of the desert.

00:26:15.040 What they're doing instead. And the, and the big problem here is they want it to sound like it's

00:26:19.520 the important research to save the world. When in fact, often it's nonsensical spending on

00:26:25.360 do fish feel pain and other ridiculous things like that. You go to the average person and say,

00:26:29.440 do you think a fish feel feels pain? Some of them might say, no, I don't know. But I think

00:26:32.720 the average person would be like, what are you? Yes. I don't know why, what, like, or who cares?

00:26:36.320 That might be the other response you get. Why is this the budget priority and spending millions

00:26:41.360 of dollars on it? It's because government funded programs are wasteful. They, they tend to be,

00:26:48.720 I think some of them can be good, but you end up with, I think it really comes down to how you

00:26:53.520 described it. They expect results in the private sector that's seen from Ghostbusters.

00:26:59.920 Then they build a lab in the middle of one of the densest urban populations where they're doing

00:27:04.800 some of the most dangerous research. And then they lie about it after they screw up. Like, wow.

00:27:09.920 Wow. And Wuhan is not alone right now. There are 27 other animal labs in China that are authorized for

00:27:21.280 animal testing payouts. Okay. There's literally a list PHS list at the NIH of the, the, uh, pre pre

00:27:29.760 eligibility for grantees all around the world. Okay.

00:27:33.280 There are 27 animal labs in China right now eligible still for payouts. Just last week,

00:27:41.680 we finally, finally got the NIH or got the NIH to, to take off the Wuhan lab. Both of them were two.

00:27:48.720 There were two labs in Wuhan, not just Wuhan Institute of Virology, but there were two of them.

00:27:53.360 Both of them were taken off the list last week. Finally, three years later, finally, uh, disqualified

00:27:59.600 from NIH payouts. There are still 27 other in China and 200 other labs, animal labs all around

00:28:06.720 the world. Right? So a few years ago, we launched this worldwide waste campaign to expose payouts

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00:29:40.640 Did I mention that we care?

00:29:44.000 On the world, wasteful spending on dangerous, cruel, uh, and stupid spending all around the world.

00:29:49.440 Denmark, uh, making, uh, monkeys, uh, drink alcohol, drunk monkeys, uh, and mice, uh, you know,

00:29:57.440 alcoholic mice and monkeys and Denmark and fish, fish nicotine, smoking fish in the UK. So it ranges

00:30:03.440 from the silly to the sadistic. It sounds like this comedy sketch. It writes itself, doesn't it?

00:30:09.280 I mean, it's the stuff writes itself, Tim, you know, just, uh, um, uh, at the end of March,

00:30:15.040 the government accountability office in response to our worldwide waste campaign put out

00:30:21.600 an audit, a long awaited audit about wasteful spending on, on animal labs all around the world.

00:30:28.640 We've spent $2 billion over the last 20 years, 2 billion on, on these labs. And the punchline was

00:30:36.400 the NIH has never once done an audit of itself of what it's doing in these animal labs. Those beagles

00:30:41.680 in Tunisia with the nets. Yeah. I mean, they've never once ordered this stuff.

00:30:47.200 Yeah. They would put like parts of the dog and in a netted area with the flies too,

00:30:50.640 and things like that. That was Tunisia. That, that's that, that, that iconic photo we, we put

00:30:54.720 out. Yeah. It's, it's first and foremost, you know, they're not watching the store.

00:31:00.080 Yeah. Nobody's watching the store here. Here's where I think we, we, we unite the left and the

00:31:04.560 right on this. It's like, you've got every vegan should be angry that they, a lot of this research

00:31:11.280 seems to make no sense, which should make the right angry because the government is giving money,

00:31:17.760 which is basically just pure corruption. They're saying draft up whatever and we'll pay,

00:31:23.040 we'll give you the money. And where does that money come from our pockets? So people on the left

00:31:27.200 should be mad that they're torturing animals for no reason. And the right should be mad for no reason

00:31:32.000 other than to just get a grant. This was a story that wasn't being told until we started the white

00:31:38.480 coatways project is one of the main reasons I started it. There are a number of reasons why

00:31:44.480 I started this, but it, there should have been a left, right convergence all along on animal testing.

00:31:50.160 It kind of wasn't though. It was this, it was really the exclusive domain of, of the left.

00:31:57.920 Yeah. And you had the establishment animal rights groups, you know, really only reaching out to the

00:32:05.520 left, but it's not a left, right thing. It's, it's about establishment power and out versus outsiders.

00:32:12.000 It's about government and finding a way to bring, to bring everybody into the tent, you know, tent

00:32:19.440 widening was one of the, that was one of the main reasons I started this. It's not quite animal welfare.

00:32:24.000 It's not quite, you know, uh, government spending. It's a hybrid of both.

00:32:28.000 Where's PETA on this. I mean, it's, I don't know. I bet. I mean, it's, but you know, but the,

00:32:35.760 all these, the other reason these establishment animal groups really missed the boat on all of

00:32:41.680 this, right? The two most important animal testing campaigns, perhaps of all time were

00:32:48.720 Fauci's beagle experiments that really elevated this public for the first time. I mean, to really

00:32:55.600 just dinner table conversation and the most important of them all is the lab leak.

00:33:00.800 Yeah. So I think monkey Island is up there, right up there, but monkey, monkey Island was,

00:33:07.200 uh, they were just trying to experiment on pain. The, this, the purpose was to induce as much pain

00:33:13.360 as possible on, on, on primates. Monkey Island. Yeah. We exposed that from another freedom of

00:33:20.480 information act, uh, request a FOIA investigation a few years back. There's this island off the coast

00:33:28.320 of South Carolina. The primates are literally owned. They are property of NIAID, Fauci's, uh,

00:33:38.800 NIH department. They are literally his property.

00:33:41.680 Just to clarify too. I think Fauci is retired now, right? Yeah. But this, this was all under him.

00:33:46.080 This was all under, at the time under, under Fauci's department. He's no longer there,

00:33:52.480 but the legacy goes on. Yeah. His wasteful spending years and years of it goes on. Monkey

00:33:57.360 Island's still there. They're still harvesting these monkeys from the south, off the coast of

00:34:02.080 South Carolina and shipping them to maximum pain laboratories. Yeah. People need to really understand

00:34:07.600 what that is. It's, it's one thing to laugh about. They gave a monkey crack. And it's like,

00:34:11.440 I look at that. I'm like, that's the, I think that's stupid and wrong for a variety of reasons.

00:34:16.400 At the very least crack makes you feel good. You're, you're creating an addiction. It's causing

00:34:20.400 lifelong problems. So it's still bad. It doesn't feel good when they take it away from them.

00:34:24.720 That doesn't feel good, but yes, I get it. But with, uh, the, the maximum pain project,

00:34:28.960 it's they're trying to figure out how to induce the most pain possible and then see what happens to

00:34:34.080 these monkeys. Deliberate, deliberate withholding of any anesthesia, deliberate withholding of any pain

00:34:40.720 relief. It sucks. The intention is to research the pain, isn't it? In some cases. And in other

00:34:46.320 cases they're doing other, you know, that's one that, and, or, or just virus experimentation,

00:34:52.880 more virus experimentation. We just let, let the virus. On this island?

00:34:56.400 Well, they, they, they transport them off the island and then they ship them to, uh, they ship

00:35:01.920 them to the lab. So a paradise to pain pipeline. You ever see a plant, the new planet of the apes?

00:35:07.840 I've heard about it. I haven't seen, well, with, uh, James Franco.

00:35:11.760 I, I, I saw parts. I did. Yeah.

00:35:13.440 It's something you got to watch. It's a movie about how the world ends because of genetic

00:35:18.080 experimentation on primates. He, he's trying to cure Alzheimer's. He creates a virus for a gene therapy.

00:35:25.440 It makes the primates super intelligent and it kills humans. And then the series is the planet is

00:35:35.440 wiped out. It starts with super intelligent apes escaping and then forming their own society. And

00:35:41.040 then the next movie earth has collapsed because the virus kills people. I think people need to understand

00:35:47.280 that it's, it's, imagine if someone dropped a nuclear bomb on a city, it would be devastating.

00:35:55.120 And one nuclear bomb on one city, maybe it kills a couple hundred thousand people.

00:36:01.840 One lab leak. How many people died?

00:36:03.920 It could be 19, 20 million maybe.

00:36:05.920 And what, what, what, what, what are the numbers they're giving us for COVID? It's

00:36:08.880 7 million or is it, I don't know the total number as of, as of.

00:36:12.320 I've seen estimates. Yeah. I mean, depending on the estimates, probably,

00:36:15.040 probably deaths worldwide undercounted. I've seen some estimates, 19, 20 million from,

00:36:20.000 from, from coronavirus and coronavirus related deaths.

00:36:23.440 There are people that we know personally have had on Timcast IRL whose parents have died because

00:36:28.400 of this. If they built a nuclear research lab in a dense populated area and it went off,

00:36:34.800 you would not have as much death. If they built a nuclear reactor, let's say it had some crazy

00:36:39.120 name. It was in the Soviet Union, uh, Chernobyl, we'll just say you would not have as much death

00:36:45.520 than if they, if their experiments go wrong and they unleash the, the, a virus.

00:36:51.040 And, and it, you know, Rand Paul said, you know, we work with Senator Paul all the time on this and

00:36:55.760 he's absolutely right in leading the charge to, you know, uh, find expose and defund smoke out and

00:37:02.560 just cut off the money for these horrible animal experiments, the wasteful spending on foreign labs,

00:37:08.160 Wuhan. But I, I think he said, you know, it, it, it, it should be illegal to, to send humanized

00:37:13.680 mice to China. If you, if it's, if we shouldn't be able to send nuclear weapons around the world,

00:37:19.120 you know, give, give rogue countries and enemies, uh, nuclear weapons. Why are we,

00:37:25.280 why are we sending humanized mice and that are that they had the capability to kill even more?

00:37:29.200 You know, have you, have you heard about these stories where Chinese nationals are caught carrying

00:37:32.640 viruses illegally through airports? I've heard other stories about carrying, uh, you know,

00:37:38.960 no, I haven't heard that one. Oh, there's a bunch of these ones. We, we covered that one

00:37:42.240 specifically. You know, it's kind of crazy to think that now that we're past the lockdowns,

00:37:46.560 people are kind of forgetting what was going on when governments were locking people down.

00:37:52.080 Governments were arresting people. You needed these, these passports and things like that.

00:37:56.720 But we covered this, uh, uh, a bit, many stories over the past few years of Chinese researchers

00:38:03.600 carrying illegal viruses through our airports and in only a few instances being caught.

00:38:10.240 Well, I could tell you a story about an airport with carry with, with Chinese researchers carrying

00:38:15.920 things through airport. Cause it's, it's, it's actually very, it's, it's, it's one of the reasons

00:38:20.640 it's, it is the way we found out about the Wuhan lab in the first place

00:38:27.600 a few years back. So this goes to back to 2018. We, we had a campaign, uh, at the belts in

00:38:35.440 Bellsville, Maryland, the U S department of agriculture, USDA was running a cat lab.

00:38:42.480 Okay. It was called the kitten slaughterhouse, uh, was the nickname for it. It was the largest cat

00:38:47.040 lab in the U S government. They had spent about $22 million over 50 years of government spending,

00:38:54.880 uh, about 3000 kittens were, were killed in this laboratory. And they were doing rotten

00:39:00.000 meat experiments, right? They were, they were feeding kittens, toxoplasmosis disease, infected

00:39:07.200 meat sites. Yup. They were feeding them and killing them. They were three month old kittens.

00:39:11.120 Wow. This thing was going on for literally five decades, right? Ghostbusters over and over again.

00:39:15.600 Yup. So we launched this campaign that exposed it in, in, in April, I believe, no, May of 2018.

00:39:24.960 So it goes back a few years and the campaign's getting a lot of traction, getting a lot of media

00:39:34.560 coverage, getting a lot of congressional engagement on both sides, Democrats and Republicans coming

00:39:38.320 together to try and shut down the kitten slaughterhouse at the U S department of agriculture.

00:39:44.480 And we're intensifying the campaign because we really, really want to close this sucker.

00:39:49.280 So we dig into the, into the, into the research, into the literature, fine, you know,

00:39:53.440 follow the money. That's what we do. So we're going through the papers and the grants and the

00:39:57.920 publications that are coming out of this program. And we, and lo and behold, we discover that the USDA,

00:40:05.600 some of this meat that they were feeding the kittens was coming from China and Tim,

00:40:11.840 it was dog and cat meat that they were feeding to the kittens. They were, the USDA was a customer

00:40:17.680 of the wet markets in China. They were literally spending tax money to round up, round up cats

00:40:24.480 and dogs at those horrible live animal markets, the wet markets. And the Chinese white coats,

00:40:31.200 the researchers were carrying it back rotten meat in their luggage, literally to the United States.

00:40:37.840 And it was being fed to the lab kittens, um, kitten cannibalism experiments. Now the lab that,

00:40:44.320 that, that once that expose came out, it broke the back of the program. We shut it down. It

00:40:48.800 was the largest cat lab in the government. Um, I adopted two, two of the breeding moms who were

00:40:54.480 survivors of the programs who I have two of them and, but Tim that, that, yeah. I, and, uh, so I live

00:41:02.560 with them now, but here's the thing that was the campaign. We broke their back in the spring of 2019.

00:41:08.560 The program was shuttered after 50 years, but here's the thing that was the genesis of how we

00:41:15.840 expose the lab leak money, because we started saying, well, if the government labs in the United

00:41:20.640 States, my, my, my two cats were the genesis of it. If the government is spending our money,

00:41:27.840 federal U S federal government labs, the administrative state, taking our money and going to China with it

00:41:32.400 for scientific scientific research. What else are they spending it on? That's how we found out that

00:41:38.720 there was this list of 27 labs in China, including the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

00:41:43.760 You know, what's amazing to me is that after 50 years, this lab is shut down the moment people

00:41:48.080 learned of its existence. Is that, is that basically what happens? You guys figured out,

00:41:51.920 you publicize this, and then all of a sudden they're like, time to close it.

00:41:54.400 Yeah. We liked sort of, I mean, it's like get ready for a Las Vegas style action at bet. MGM,

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00:42:53.920 Ontario. When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of

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00:43:24.720 The process, it's FED is the acronym we use, F-E-D. Find, expose, defund. I mean, that's our playbook, right?

00:43:32.480 My view is just these things sound so depraved that the moment you find them and expose them,

00:43:39.840 they get defunded. Not always, but... Well, that's how we close the circle,

00:43:44.480 right? We find it, we follow the money, Freedom of Information Act requests, open records analysis,

00:43:50.400 going through the papers that they publish. Then we expose it, right? Like Monkey Island,

00:43:56.000 like we did here a few years ago. Expose it, get it out there. Hopefully we don't get censored.

00:44:01.280 We do. And then defund it. That's how we close. That was the genesis. You know, when I, when I

00:44:05.440 founded the White Coat Waste Project, I was fed up. I also was fed up with the failures of,

00:44:12.080 of animal rights groups on this issue. Nobody was shutting labs. They weren't shutting the labs down.

00:44:17.680 Not really. And not enough of them. And I realized, look, the elephant in the room was,

00:44:22.800 this was government spending, right? Dwarfing the private sector. Yes, companies do do this.

00:44:29.280 It's, it's, it's not good when they do it either. But the point is,

00:44:32.640 the government was the elephant in the room, more than two to one. And if they can fund a program,

00:44:36.480 you can defund it. So we, that was the innovative twist. If we, if you can fund a program,

00:44:42.080 in theory, you can defund it. There's a lot of arguments for the necessity of animal testing in

00:44:48.160 certain areas when it comes to curing diseases or treating things. My view is, I get that.

00:44:56.480 But I think what I hear right now is, if we don't, they have to have maximum level of transparency

00:45:04.960 when it comes to doing these kinds of things. Because it sounds to me,

00:45:08.720 over and over again, the stories we hear, it's not some noble experiment to cure Alzheimer's.

00:45:13.360 It's not some noble experiment to restore function in someone who's paralyzed. It's,

00:45:17.600 can a monkey smoke crack? Let's spend $40 million to find out. And you're just like, no, no, please,

00:45:22.880 come on. Like, that's, that's, that makes, that's ridiculous. It's dangerous gain of function research

00:45:29.600 for the sake of a grant, and then a cover up if it goes wrong. It is, I think they try to get, get by.

00:45:36.560 I'll put it this way. A decade ago, I'd hear arguments from people and they'd say,

00:45:42.240 nobody wants to hurt the animals, but you do understand that if we're trying to cure a disease,

00:45:46.800 we don't want humans to suffer in that process. So we're going to test on animals first. And I go,

00:45:51.200 I get it. I get it. And then I read a book and it's like, did you know we spent $40 million to

00:45:56.000 find out a fish feel pain? And I'm like, hold on there a minute. You're not talking about a noble

00:46:01.040 cause. You're talking about people who don't want to lose their job at a perpetual cycle.

00:46:05.120 Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and then let's hope when they're not trying to cure that disease,

00:46:09.440 that noble cause, that necessary evil. Yeah. Hopefully you guys don't make another one.

00:46:13.440 I don't want to go through another lockdown, but our answer to that question is pretty simple.

00:46:19.200 Find your own funding. If it's, you know, for, for most cases, I mean, gain of function is

00:46:24.320 an exceptional case, right? That's that, that, you know, we don't want that. Nobody should be doing

00:46:27.680 that, but, but, but, but, but, but that's again, a little bit exceptional,

00:46:31.840 but here's the thing, monkey smoking crack. All right, Tim, you can, you can have all,

00:46:38.240 so look, I'm not going to ban you. It's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

00:46:40.960 Tim, if you want monkeys to smoke crack, find your own funding. We won't stop you.

00:46:47.200 Our organization won't stop you. Knock yourself out. But here's the thing.

00:46:50.560 You got to raise the money yourself. I mean, I'm not for the monkey smoking crack in any capacity,

00:46:58.640 but I get, I get your point. We let, let the private sec. I don't personally,

00:47:02.480 I don't like it when the private sector does it, but let them do it because here's why.

00:47:07.120 Remember the whole Ghostbusters theme is they demand results. They're not going to fund a lot

00:47:13.200 of this stuff. Yeah. Right. So we know that if we challenge the private sector to pick up the tab,

00:47:18.880 a lot of this will dry up overnight. I'm just imagining sitting down at a,

00:47:23.440 let's say there's a steakhouse in DC and you go to your business part and you say,

00:47:26.880 this is fantastic. We've got a meeting with this venture capital firm and you sit down and they

00:47:31.840 say, we're really interested. You guys are, your credentials are amazing. You're researchers from

00:47:36.560 these universities. So what do you need the 50 million for? Get this. We're going to buy a bunch

00:47:41.280 of crack and give it to monkeys. The guy's going to be like, thank you for your time. Have a nice day.

00:47:46.000 Yeah. Some, some woke bankers are really going to fund that.

00:47:48.880 Right. I mean, but what's my, what's my, what's my out on this? I'm going to make a cure for crack

00:47:54.160 addiction. Well, you know, we'll, we'll, we'll see. It'll go on for a couple of years and another

00:47:58.400 couple of years, another couple of decades, and we're just going to have to keep, you know,

00:48:01.200 keep spending the money. Uh, yeah, we kind of want to ROI. So, so we know that we'll be able to

00:48:08.240 clean out a lot of this stuff by just shifting the burden, get it off the taxpayers back,

00:48:12.240 you know, privatize it. Don't socialize it. That's one way we handle it for sure. That's

00:48:18.960 one approach. I mean, this is just an issue of the bigger issue of taxation. People don't

00:48:26.000 know where their money's going and the government has clever ways of funding these things through

00:48:32.240 the federal reserve. There's a bigger conversation about modern monetary theory, but when they deficit

00:48:37.040 spend, they're extracting the savings of the American people. So it's worse than just taking your tax

00:48:41.200 dollars. They're devaluing your currency through these wasteful programs, be it animal research or

00:48:45.600 otherwise. But I do find it fascinating that we're dealing with a debt ceiling crisis right now.

00:48:50.640 Negotiations ongoing. No deal's been made. Oh no, the government's going to shut down again. Can we

00:48:54.320 raise the, raise the limit? I know. How about we just take stock of where we're spending money first?

00:48:59.600 How are we in a deficit spending position if we're funding monkey smoking crack?

00:49:04.720 20 billion. That's 20 billion. And that's what we know about.

00:49:08.400 Wait, wait, is it 20 billion just for the monkey smoking crack? No.

00:49:11.760 That's a lot of money.

00:49:13.920 It is, it is the sum total. And that, but here's the thing, the 20 billion though,

00:49:18.480 you said, you said that you said the right word, transparent.

00:49:21.120 Yeah. We don't know how much they're actually spending. 20 B is the floor

00:49:26.000 with a billion with a B. Okay. Not million, billion. That's the floor, not the ceiling. We know

00:49:34.160 that the NIH, just the NIH wastes about 50 cents on the dollar for every one of those grants has an

00:49:41.040 animal testing component to it. Some is monkey smoking crack. Some is beagles having their vocal

00:49:45.840 cords cut out and fed to flies. And some of it is gain of function animal testing, but that's the floor,

00:49:51.600 not the ceiling. It could be a lot higher. Yeah.

00:49:55.280 And that's just the NIH. We talk about stuff like Flint, Michigan, a lot in, in the modern

00:50:02.720 narrative, the Democrats complaining for a decade, you know, oh, the pipes need to be fixed. These

00:50:06.560 poor kids, they're suffering. Flint, like the Michael, Michael Moore's movie from years ago.

00:50:11.040 Right. And, and my attitude is like, I completely agree with the, with the left on this issue.

00:50:15.360 How is it insert thing being funded is happening. And we haven't just gone in and spent the millions,

00:50:21.760 the millions with an M to fix the pipes in an American city where people are suffering.

00:50:27.120 There's, there's, there's so many things that I could complain about. Why are we funding war in

00:50:32.080 Ukraine? Why are we funding war in the middle East? Why are we funding animals smoking crack

00:50:36.880 before? Like I'll tell you this. If you fixed all of America's problems,

00:50:41.440 clean the pipes in Pittsburgh, got fresh water in Flint, clean the, fix those pipes.

00:50:46.080 Every city's crime is going down. Mental health services across the board. We're all in flying

00:50:50.720 cars with perfect healthcare. And then you say, now can we give the monkeys crack? I'll be like,

00:50:56.480 well, I'm not okay with the monkeys getting crack thing, but there's a pile of money laying around

00:50:59.400 and you can justify like, how is it that these, I know I'm singling out the monkey smoking crack,

00:51:05.180 but it is, it's a really absurd example of, of wasting money. How is it that we're spending

00:51:09.820 money on these things before helping Americans in need? Anything is better than what we're spending.

00:51:14.700 Anything is better than causing lab leaks, lockdowns, mandates. I mean, anything is,

00:51:19.900 is better than what we're doing with how we're spending it. Anything.

00:51:23.100 So you guys are censored. We are censored. We've been censored for a long time. We are still

00:51:31.180 censored on Twitter right now. Okay. So we are, we are, we, we, we, we're still trying to run ads

00:51:38.540 on Twitter today. Like is your account locked or anything? Our account's not locked, but they're

00:51:43.740 not, they're, they're, they're refused. They're banning us from running ads. We have written Twitter

00:51:47.500 a check. They haven't cashed it. And the, and the reason they gave us literally, I think, let's say

00:51:52.700 Friday. So as of Monday or Tuesday, they're telling us because we're promoting lab leak, uh,

00:51:58.700 uh, uh, information or, or, or, or, or, and also they saying we don't, we're not sufficiently

00:52:04.620 credible on $20 billion being spent on animal testing. Wait, they're, they're, they're saying

00:52:08.940 you can't promote the lab leak. Correct. John Stewart promoted lab leak theory two years ago.

00:52:13.260 Well, I, Elon Musk is sharing our own FOIA investigation himself, Tim, that that's terrific.

00:52:19.180 Our gain of function. He literally was that we were the investigators who funded the, the

00:52:24.060 FOIA challenge that got that. And yet he won't take our money to fund, to run Twitter ads to promote

00:52:29.500 it. Please. Yeah. Please unbanned. What's your, what's your Twitter? Is it white, white coat waste

00:52:35.980 is the Twitter handle. But you guys are even in a, uh, a business enterprise customer. We, we,

00:52:44.140 and they won't, maybe he's still cleaning house from, you know, the woke policy people over there.

00:52:51.180 He's maybe, he still hasn't gotten to it yet. I'll give him a little, you know,

00:52:53.980 a little more time, but come on, Elon, you were supposed to be on team lab leak here.

00:52:59.500 So, so what is it on Twitter? You're trying to run ads to promote these stories and they're saying,

00:53:03.900 no, yes. We literally have the emails from his people, his policy. People are saying,

00:53:10.140 they're, they're promoting COVID disinformation and lab leak. And hold on a minute.

00:53:15.820 Wait a minute. Nancy Mace. The president says the government doesn't have to cut any spending,

00:53:23.580 but the federal government spent $3 million in 2022 watching hamsters fight on steroids.

00:53:29.020 That was our FOIA investigation. Look at you. The video is right there of the

00:53:32.820 Tim, the Roman gladiator, the stupidest of people, him Roman gladiator style death matches. We got the,

00:53:39.620 we have the video, we have the secret video. They filmed it. We have the videotapes of them.

00:53:44.180 This is, this is, I can't believe this country, man, they're putting,

00:53:51.460 but Twitter won't let us run ads showing this stuff. Why are they doing this?

00:53:56.140 Lab leak disinformation, COVID disinformation. They, they're claiming.

00:54:01.020 I am, I am, I am, I'm, I'm going through your Twitter. I'm not trying to find the ad.

00:54:05.700 And then I'm like, what? $3 million to watch hamsters fight on steroids.

00:54:10.180 These are not serious people. Dude, give, I would, I would rather just give that $3 million

00:54:18.400 straight up to any homeless veteran. Anything. Don't care what you do with it. Here's $3 million.

00:54:23.800 Anything is better. Whatever they spent it on it. It's better than Roman gladiator death matches.

00:54:30.580 There's a video of this. We have it. It's right. It should be right there. I mean,

00:54:33.820 I think we chimed in with the video right under Nancy, uh, Congresswoman Mace is a 2.3 million

00:54:39.480 to inject beagle puppies with cocaine. That's us too. Nancy Mace. Uh, that's amazing. She's

00:54:44.360 sharing this stuff. Stop the waste. Yeah. She's been great with getting us out. She was great with

00:54:48.380 monkey Island. We, we, uh, it's in her district. It's right out. It's right, you know, right off the

00:54:52.780 coast of her district. She, we, we, we went on a fact finding. We, we sailed with Congresswoman Mace

00:54:57.820 to, uh, you know, film the monkeys and she's tweeting this stuff like crazy. This is fantastic.

00:55:02.940 A million dollars to watch mice binge drink. Yep. That's another one. Um, I mean, you know,

00:55:08.620 I can, I can walk down the street in any major city and see a homeless veteran saying, please

00:55:14.960 help me. Yeah. They're not curing sick kids with this money. I mean, there's no sick kids getting

00:55:19.440 cured here. I mean, come on. Dude, I'm sorry. The hamsters on steroids fighting sounds like two guys

00:55:25.560 who were drinking and they were like, wouldn't it like, let's make videos where like hamsters

00:55:29.920 are on steroids. We'll make them fight. Can we get money for that? Like, bro, the NAID will just

00:55:35.120 give me money for anything. Let's do it. Nice work. If you can get it, we can just sit around and

00:55:38.580 watch and film doing this. I mean, it's, it's cruel. It's horrible, but it's also, it's, it's,

00:55:45.300 it's, it's, it's, it's like a set. It's like a bad Saturday night live, uh, skit here.

00:55:51.020 So what you posted the video of the hamsters fighting, it should be right. Yeah. You could

00:55:54.540 probably see it right under the Nancy Mace. Uh, no, I don't see it. Uh, we chimed, we probably

00:55:59.020 chimed in right there with, uh, under her, uh, Oh, I see it replied with it. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

00:56:03.940 Let me see if I can find the, uh, I'm like scrolling through. Oh my God. That's it. That's

00:56:08.560 the actual, they filmed that. Oh my God. Yeah. That's it. Why? This is the stupidest thing I've

00:56:19.380 ever seen. It's not even entertaining. Get ready for a Las Vegas style action of

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00:57:49.900 Like, oh, this is brutal. Yeah.

00:57:55.500 There are aggression experiments and things, you know.

00:57:58.600 That's crazy, man.

00:58:00.820 Did you get your money's worth?

00:58:02.440 You know, it's like the first thing I think when I see the picture is I'm laughing and then

00:58:06.280 I watch the video and now I'm upset. Same thing with the dogs with cocaine, right? It,

00:58:11.200 it sounds, it is, it does sound funny. And I mean, you have, you have, look, we have to have a sense

00:58:17.580 of humor about black humor, dark humor for sure. But, but you got to have a little bit of a sense

00:58:21.540 of humor about this stuff, but no, it's, it's, it's terribly cruel. I mean, the dogs, you know,

00:58:27.300 how do you think they're, they're getting the Coke? They're not snorting lines of it,

00:58:30.760 right? They're not, they're not, they, they, they put, they tether them with these straight

00:58:36.380 jackets and, and infuse it into them. Their IVs?

00:58:40.480 Well, they, they put them in a, in a restraint jacket and right into catheter, you know, right

00:58:44.820 into them. Wow. So, you know, it, it's, it is, it is, it is into their, right into the stomach or

00:58:51.440 vein or artery or vein or whatever. I'm not, you know, I'd have to go back and, and intravenous.

00:58:55.640 That's the idea. Yeah. I mean, it, it, exactly. So, you know, you know, they're not going to the

00:59:00.940 club and going sniffing. It's not quite how it works, but, um, man, it, it is, it is, it is cruel.

00:59:09.160 I mean, it, it's, it's, it's even these addiction experiments, you know, they, they usually forcibly

00:59:13.780 withdraw them and anybody who knows anything about addiction is it, it's, it's misery.

00:59:20.560 Yeah. Forced withdrawal is, is, is awful.

00:59:23.440 I shouldn't have watched that hamster video. I was laughing at the absurdity of the idea until

00:59:28.780 I watched it. Now I'm pissed off. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and that, and that we got that from a,

00:59:34.700 from a, you know, state, state level freedom of information act. Uh, well, not, not FOIA is

00:59:38.860 federal, but a state level, you know, open records request. Um, and that's what we do. We, you know,

00:59:44.240 we get this stuff to the Hill and work with both sides, Democrats and Republicans. There is

00:59:49.560 something in it for everyone, uh, whether they're, whether they love, uh,

00:59:53.440 puppies and kittens, whether they hate government waste or, or like us both.

00:59:58.200 Okay. That, that graphic you made for the article though is, is genius.

01:00:01.860 Which one?

01:00:02.480 The, the hamster ninja kicking the other hamster in the face.

01:00:05.820 Fight club.

01:00:06.820 Yeah. Hamster fight club.

01:00:09.100 Yeah.

01:00:09.280 Hamster fight club.

01:00:10.460 Yeah.

01:00:11.080 Can I just $1.5 million?

01:00:13.980 Mm-hmm.

01:00:14.780 And this is just for, for, for what reason, you know, it's the ghostbusters thing. Like

01:00:19.960 you mentioned, it is, if they can get the money from it, they'll get it. And the rest

01:00:23.580 of us aren't paying attention. We don't know. Or I don't think it's, it's just that we don't

01:00:28.180 know. We need to, we're not paying attention, but they're also hiding it, concealing it,

01:00:34.020 censoring on not, not, not, they're not disclosing it. You know, the transparency is a

01:00:38.000 major part. A lot of our public policy work is to get price tags put on this wasteful

01:00:43.680 spending. All right. And even if you support in principle animal testing, or at least some

01:00:49.400 of it, but even if you did, or at least some of it, you should have a right to know how

01:00:56.540 much you're spending on it. At least put it in the public square. Transparency hurts

01:01:00.880 no one.

01:01:01.660 I think you're right about the private sector approach to it. I still think there should

01:01:05.700 be probably heavy regulation as it pertains to the, I'm not this laissez-faire free market

01:01:09.640 absolutist. I like mostly leaning towards free market. I think some regulations can

01:01:13.800 be okay. Problem is government tends to screw that up. So difficult position, but

01:01:18.760 Ghostbusters was not, you know, when I watched that went private, well, that's the thing.

01:01:23.440 It's, it's, it's both a window onto the problem and the solution in my, in my personal opinion.

01:01:29.200 And I know something about this issue now, but haven't been doing this for the better

01:01:33.560 part of the last decade, but it's the window onto the problem. Endless grants for, and you

01:01:39.780 don't know what the private sector is like. They demand results, but it also is a clue

01:01:43.620 on how we solve this problem, shift it into the private sector because they're going to

01:01:48.220 demand results and whack this stuff. Look, I worked in an animal lab when I was 17. That's

01:01:53.840 how I got into this issue. I'm dating myself, but it was back in 1995. Uh, it was just an

01:02:00.000 internship in my, uh, uh, my, uh, in between my junior and senior year of high school.

01:02:06.220 Okay. I wanted to be a doc, uh, just a doctor, like a human doctor. My dad's a dentist and

01:02:12.900 I wanted to go to medical school. And I thought this would be a great letter of recommendation.

01:02:17.280 You know, uh, I had a friend who, whose father was a doctor. I thought I'd get a great letter

01:02:21.760 of recommendation from the, from the, from the lab. I worked out, you know, leg up, uh,

01:02:26.360 for college admissions. That was, I'm just being honest about it. Um, so I ended up, I worked

01:02:31.380 in an animal lab for a few weeks. I was horrified by, I, I was no animal rights activist. You know,

01:02:36.980 I liked that. I loved animals. I had pets, but I wasn't, I wasn't a vegetarian, vegan. I wasn't

01:02:41.880 an activist. I was a kid playing the drums in high school and wanting to get a leg up on his

01:02:46.440 competition. Anyway, so I worked in the animal lab just for a few weeks and I was just, I hated

01:02:51.280 what I saw. I horrified by it. I wanted to do something about this for my whole life. And, you know,

01:02:57.280 when I was 17, I didn't, I didn't know the, the, the, the experiments I was looking at were,

01:03:02.120 were, were taxpayer funded. I didn't pay taxes. I didn't know anything about government spending.

01:03:06.860 I didn't know about any of my policy or politics or anything. I just didn't like what I saw. You

01:03:11.700 know, it was just cruel and, and, and, and, and sadistic, but I didn't know that at the time. I

01:03:17.340 learned that much later. And again, Ghostbusters providing that window onto how do we solve the

01:03:22.760 problem? It's not that the private sec would abuse of a dog is abuse of a dog, whether it's in,

01:03:29.380 you know, that's manifestly true, whether you're, if you're cutting a dog, the dog don't care whether

01:03:33.380 it's a private lab or a public lab. I care because it's worse that I'm forced to pay for it. I don't

01:03:39.020 get a chance to boycott. So it makes it a little bit worse, but, but so we're not shifting it into

01:03:44.460 the private sec. We're not trying to get into the private sector because private sector is inherently

01:03:47.620 good. It, it, it, we're trying to do that as a strategy to just, we know we're going to whack

01:03:53.300 this stuff faster and more efficiently by doing it and clean up the problem.

01:03:57.520 I think it should be private sector and I think it should still have oversight in the, in the public

01:04:01.440 space. So, uh, you want to run a lab when it comes to any kind of, you know, biosecurity level

01:04:08.400 stuff. I think that's gotta be outright in the middle of nowhere. I don't think we should be allowed

01:04:12.540 to outsource it to foreign countries the way Fauci was doing, which is just making the problem worse

01:04:18.900 because not doing it through these secretive pass-through grants. I mean, like eco health.

01:04:22.840 I mean, that was our big major investigation was finding that loophole. Nobody knew about that.

01:04:29.240 You should be in jail until we found that if, if, if we say you can't do it, how would anybody have

01:04:32.880 known? This is why Fauci in my view, I think it's fair to say that he lied to Rand Paul, to Congress.

01:04:39.360 I think so. You've got the paper saying they did gain of function research that they funded it. It

01:04:43.420 describes it as gain of function. It shows that they were providing the funding and they said,

01:04:46.320 no, he didn't. Semantics aside, I, the point was clear. I hope that, um, we get a serious

01:04:54.840 investigation. Maybe if Trump wins, you know, I look at the current establishment political class

01:05:00.300 and they're just, everyone says we all got a good thing going. It's like all these different

01:05:04.700 criminal organizations looking at each other being like, I won't screw with you. If you don't screw

01:05:08.100 with me, we need someone to come in and be like, guys, enough of this. But my, my view in the,

01:05:12.940 on the private sector version of this is I still don't like the idea that they're going to give

01:05:16.640 monkeys crack or something like that. So there should be public oversight of how the private

01:05:21.320 sector is running these things. You should not be able to just go and torture dogs. You've got to,

01:05:26.160 there should be something clearly defined as to what the purpose is for the experiments that you

01:05:31.060 do with a stated, uh, you can't be like, well, we're gonna see what happens. Uh, no, no dice.

01:05:36.720 No, that curiosity stuff. It just don't work. Even, even in the private sector.

01:05:40.820 Well, let me do you one better in a, I'll do you, I'll do you one better is, is in addition to the

01:05:46.580 whole, find your own fund it, find your own funding, let the private sector, if it's, if it's,

01:05:51.120 if it's so valuable, let the private sector pick up the tab for it. Don't for, you know,

01:05:54.820 in addition to that, I'll do you one better. How about we stop forcing, meaning the government

01:06:01.220 forcing private companies to test on animals, whether they want to or not. A few years ago,

01:06:07.240 you know, we, we, we, we started with defund, defund campaigns to cut funding, which is most of it.

01:06:14.340 So for example, the dog labs in the country, about two thirds, you can break down the two,

01:06:19.680 two thirds of it is, is, is funded with, by taxpayers and, and, and government spending,

01:06:25.440 but about one third of it is picked up by private companies, just for the dogs

01:06:30.380 and, and pharmaceutical research. But here's the thing that one third is mandated. They are forced

01:06:39.080 to. Okay. So, so again, I have no love for, for, for private companies or no hate. It's not the point,

01:06:48.080 but the system is forcing private companies, pharmaceutical companies to test on dogs,

01:06:55.100 even when their own industry doctors and scientists don't want to do it.

01:06:58.920 Why? Why? Well, we have, we, the FDA, the food and drug administration has a mandate. Okay. A mandate

01:07:05.200 for, uh, for, for, uh, for preclinical, uh, testing of efficacy of pharmaceuticals, uh, medical devices,

01:07:15.940 uh, that kind of thing. Okay. So the FDA has this red tape thing going since really, since the thirties,

01:07:23.960 since the late 1930s, forcing, uh, anyone who wants to bring something to market, any, any

01:07:29.300 pharmaceutical company who wants to bring a drug to market, they have to, they have to do it on two

01:07:33.800 species. And one of those species is usually the beagle dog. That's about a third of all the dog

01:07:39.540 testing in the country. So that's about 20,000 beagles a year. They're also, you know, these are

01:07:45.320 also maximum pain experiments in most cases, no anesthesia, no pain relief, but here's the thing.

01:07:52.560 This isn't actually a case of just greedy pharmaceutical companies, you know, testing

01:07:57.420 on dogs because they want to make money. That was, that was the lie. We were sold by the establishment

01:08:03.040 animal rights groups for a long time, just beating up private companies. Cause it's, you know,

01:08:07.240 it sounds good and, and it fits the narrative and people, you know, people believe it.

01:08:12.340 It is true that they're doing it, but they're mandated pharmaceutical research. It was mandated

01:08:17.360 by, by, by FDA regs. So let's also not force companies to do it. So let's, let's jump into the,

01:08:23.320 uh, the nonprofit stuff. Cause I love talking about this. I used to, uh, work on fundraising for some

01:08:27.960 of these big nonprofits. The first thing I'm curious is where do you, how are you guys funded?

01:08:31.100 About give or take 66%, two thirds of our funding, 66, 70% of his grassroots. Okay. So it's $20

01:08:39.200 donors is, is the majority of our, of our funding, uh, you know, online mail, great grassroots. So

01:08:46.640 most of our, almost all of our funding is grassroots. Uh, we have a couple of foundations,

01:08:51.400 a couple, uh, some other, uh, a few, a few, uh, uh, uh, grants, but most of our money for,

01:08:58.780 has always been, uh, grassroots funded. I, when, when we started it, we had no startup funding. I,

01:09:04.600 I was personally the, uh, I had to see the money to get the organization going, but we, we grew it,

01:09:10.740 we grew it through grassroots funding. Yeah. So, uh, I ask because I've worked for some of these big

01:09:18.300 nonprofits and the one thing I learned, and I learned this from other fundraisers. I learned

01:09:23.720 this from former directors and staff at nonprofits. Most of the big brand name NGOs, nonprofit

01:09:32.360 organizations do not want to succeed. And couldn't agree more. I remember talking to a guy

01:09:41.280 who had quit and he said that he quit because it seemed at a certain point that they intentionally

01:09:48.400 wanted to make the problems worse. And he was like, I think it was because if they solve the

01:09:54.520 problem, they're out of business. You know, with the private sector, you have, you have the planned

01:10:00.200 obsolescence, which is similar in a way. They say that with the invention of the light bulb, the,

01:10:04.900 uh, the original filament invented for the light bulb essentially lasted forever. And the, the first

01:10:10.380 light bulb, I believe is still on to this day in a firehouse in New York city. That's what they say.

01:10:14.320 And they decided, you know what, we need to film it that burns out so we can keep selling these

01:10:18.480 things. You know, candle burns down, got to buy a new one. We give them a light bulb that lasts for

01:10:23.220 20 years. We sell 10 light bulbs. We're done. So they intentionally fail. You see the same thing

01:10:28.340 with nonprofits. They say, if we get this band, then what do we do? So you do see in some instances,

01:10:35.560 I went without naming any of these nonprofits. They, maybe they start with, you know, uh, nuclear weapons

01:10:42.520 testing is bad, you know, because it's radiation is blanketing the earth. And so they start protesting

01:10:46.880 this. A lot of people agree and say, you're going to wipe the planet out if you keep doing these,

01:10:50.920 these bomb testing. So they, they protest these things. And then eventually when the tests start

01:10:55.580 dying down and they start succeeding in a certain respect, they say, well, now what do we do? I know

01:11:00.720 let's throw in, uh, whales because the nuclear testing was harming the whale population.

01:11:06.880 Then they say, well, now that whaling is mostly made, what would you do? Uh, trees, trees. There's

01:11:13.360 always got to be something we're fighting for. Now I can respect to a certain extent if they're

01:11:17.240 like, Hey, we've solved this problem. Now we're going to announce that we're going to carry on the

01:11:20.500 mission. But then you start to learn that some of the policies that they're, they, they fight for

01:11:24.440 these nonprofits don't actually stop these problems. Get ready for a Las Vegas style action at

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01:12:25.360 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

01:12:32.080 Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

01:12:39.760 Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs. Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

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01:12:51.660 Did I mention that we care?

01:12:55.360 Problems. I've seen it with a bunch of these big organizations.

01:13:00.100 They don't want to go out of business.

01:13:01.780 And so it's almost like, uh, you know, we had a Republican Freedom Caucus guy on who explained

01:13:08.800 to us that when they were going to overturn Obamacare, Republican leadership said, Hey,

01:13:14.740 don't vote. Yes. Wait, wait, wait, why? We have a chance to actually be rid of Obamacare,

01:13:19.560 but we need to lose the issue. Yep. You lose the issue. I don't know if you've experienced things

01:13:24.460 like that with other, you know, I have a few thoughts on this. You know, it's, I think there's

01:13:29.860 something to what you're saying about losing the issue, but what, you know, I can, when you look

01:13:36.300 at why I founded this organization, I was very frustrated with the lack of progress on animal

01:13:43.760 testing. This could explain why we hadn't, when the labs weren't being shut down, you know, in,

01:13:51.420 in the United States, not a single primate lab was shut down outside of the white coat waste project,

01:13:57.920 not a single primate lab has been shut down for the better part of a decade, zero, despite

01:14:04.320 establishment groups, raising tons of money on it, you know, so either they don't want to put

01:14:09.000 them out of business or they're incompetent and failing the approach either, but both are

01:14:12.820 unacceptable, whether they don't want, you know, whether they just don't want to lose the issue

01:14:16.260 and are not trying or they are trying and failing. Didn't, uh, but you know, didn't PETA kidnap a dog

01:14:21.960 from some woman's porch and then kill it? I, uh, that, that scandal. I mean, it, it's, it's,

01:14:28.120 it's been, you know, it's troubling. It's, it's, it's, you know, it's a little above my pay grade.

01:14:33.160 I don't, I don't know. I know a little bit about, about the, don't get yourself in legal trouble.

01:14:38.080 I'll pull it up right here. About the PETA says, sorry for taking girls, pet chihuahua and putting

01:14:43.740 it down. Yeah. I, I, I'm not an expert on, on the, the euthanasia issue. Um, it's a little above my

01:14:50.640 pay grade, but, um, you know, I, I've heard the disturbing story, the headline, but it's, it's not,

01:14:58.880 uh, it's a little above my pay grade, but it's, it's, you know, the real scandal to me is just why

01:15:06.140 are the, why were the, why did the animal test? The, the real scandal is why aren't labs getting shut

01:15:11.300 down by establishment animal. It's, it's, they can take someone's dog, but they can't stop actual

01:15:20.040 wasteful animal labs and cruel animal labs. You know, I, I started this organization out of nowhere

01:15:26.680 a few years ago and I shouldn't have had to, right? This issue is old. Animal testing is an old

01:15:34.080 problem in the United States. It goes back to the reconstruction in the 19th century. It goes back

01:15:39.520 a minute. Okay. This has been on the public radar for a long time. Animal testing is not new. The

01:15:45.360 issue is not new, but we came up with a new way to look at an old issue. I shouldn't have had to do

01:15:50.520 that. And I was very frustrated, Tim. And after working in an animal lab, I wanted to do something

01:15:54.960 about it. I could have gone and worked for an establishment group. I didn't want to, because

01:15:58.380 they weren't doing a great job on this issue. On the one hand, on the one hand, if you look at

01:16:05.180 the public opinion polling, the public support for animal testing hit an all time low, right?

01:16:13.640 Public discipline, the public was public opinion was moving in the right direction. Down, down,

01:16:17.900 down, down, down, down. They weren't supporting this stuff. But on the other hand, on the other

01:16:22.340 hand, the number of kills in these animal labs was going up, up, up, up, up, up. Think about that.

01:16:27.920 That sounds like government. In spite of the public opinion, in spite of the great

01:16:32.740 shift on public opinion, why were the animal lab deaths and kills going way up? What does

01:16:39.520 that tell you about the quality of the campaigns that were being run? I want to read a little

01:16:43.180 bit from this. This is from August 16th, 2017. PETA says, sorry for taking girls' pet chihuahua

01:16:50.500 and putting it down. They say, Zarate alleged PETA operated under a broad policy of euthanizing

01:16:56.880 animals, including healthy ones, because it considers pet ownership to be a form of involuntary

01:17:01.760 bondage. PETA denied the allegations and maintained the incident in 2014 was a terrible mistake.

01:17:07.440 Two women affiliated with PETA, Victoria Carey and Jennifer Wood, traveled to Acomac County,

01:17:13.080 Virginia, because they said a mobile home park owner asked for help capturing wild dogs and

01:17:18.580 feral cats. The women removed an unattended and unleashed chihuahua named Maya, which was a

01:17:24.460 Christmas present to nine-year-old Cynthia Zarate. Maya was put down later that day, a violation of

01:17:31.040 state law that requires a five-day grace period. PETA was fined $500 for the violation. A trial had

01:17:38.480 been scheduled for September, during which Zarate's attorneys had planned to question current and

01:17:42.080 former PETA employees about its euthanasia policy. The group later said it would pay the family $49,000

01:17:46.940 and donate $2,000 to a local branch of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals to honor

01:17:52.320 Maya. The family had set up to $7 million. There is one thing that makes me not want to watch a movie

01:17:58.660 more than anything else, and that is when in the movie the bad guy kills a dog. You can make a movie

01:18:04.260 where the villain is kidnapping and mercilessly beating people, and I'm like, oh man, this bad guy.

01:18:08.680 But when you give me a movie where the bad guy shoots a dog, I'm just like, turn it off,

01:18:12.680 turn it off, you know, and it's because I'm biased. But, you know, I care deeply about humans,

01:18:21.940 humanity, human rights issues, of course. But when it comes to the purity of dogs,

01:18:27.680 the loyalty, the companionship, and the innocence. There's some dogs that are probably evil,

01:18:33.820 don't get me wrong. That really irks me when I see in movies that dogs are a true symbol of loyalty.

01:18:40.440 Are you familiar with Hachiko the dog? No. Let me tell you the story about Hachiko the dog.

01:18:45.660 No. Who's it? So, a Japanese professor

01:18:49.220 adopted a Akita puppy, and he named it Hachiko. And I'll give you the simple version,

01:18:56.060 because I'm probably going to get something wrong. But every day, one day when he was leaving to go

01:19:00.040 to the train station to go to the university, Hachiko breaks out of the yard and follows him

01:19:04.600 and goes with him to the train station and watches him get on the train and leave.

01:19:07.600 When he comes back, Hachiko's waiting for him. And this begins this tradition where every day

01:19:13.520 in the morning, he and Hachiko will get on, he would get on the train and Hachiko would see him

01:19:17.480 off, go home, come back around the same time when he knew the professor was coming back and they'd walk

01:19:22.060 home together. One day when the professor was at the university teaching, he had a stroke and he died.

01:19:29.120 And Hachiko waited at the train station and wouldn't leave.

01:19:32.920 For, I think, about 10 years, Hachiko would wait at the train station and would not leave.

01:19:39.180 Brings tears to my eyes. They built a statue for Hachiko.

01:19:43.460 Sitting there waiting for...

01:19:45.120 And I think March 8th now is Hachiko Day.

01:19:49.040 It's a day celebrating loyalty.

01:19:50.860 Yeah.

01:19:51.180 See, I'm cracking up.

01:19:52.820 Dogs are incredible.

01:19:53.800 When you start needlessly killing these animals, you make me very angry.

01:19:59.820 And so, hear my voice when I hear this story.

01:20:04.960 If you did what PETA did to my dog, it would be John Wick times 10.

01:20:11.260 But I'm not talking about being violent and merciless.

01:20:13.800 I'm talking about a reign of legal hellfire by which I would dedicate my life

01:20:18.780 to making sure that you would never operate again.

01:20:22.680 Yeah.

01:20:22.980 And I've heard these stories about what PETA does.

01:20:26.080 I am no fan of this.

01:20:27.460 Yeah.

01:20:28.320 So, I'm not going to sit here and pretend all...

01:20:30.040 And pets are special.

01:20:30.720 You know, they're not...

01:20:31.500 It's not slavery.

01:20:32.520 It's not bondage.

01:20:33.400 You know, I am proud.

01:20:34.680 I adopted two of the mothers who were breeding the kittens at that USDA lab, you know, that we shut down.

01:20:42.640 I've had...

01:20:43.440 Dogs are special.

01:20:44.900 Pets are special.

01:20:45.660 It's not bondage.

01:20:47.320 It's...

01:20:47.920 You can be abusive to a pet or you can love a pet.

01:20:50.400 And most people love their pets and it's special.

01:20:53.040 Do you know the story about how dogs became...

01:20:55.480 It's just nonsense that pets are slavery.

01:20:57.740 I mean, that's just...

01:20:58.140 Right.

01:20:58.420 That's...

01:20:58.780 Well...

01:20:59.180 It's just nonsense.

01:20:59.880 That was the allegation against PETA.

01:21:02.160 I'm not necessarily interested in giving them the benefit of the doubt because I've heard many other stories similar.

01:21:07.280 They went to a woman's porch.

01:21:08.480 I read this once.

01:21:09.480 Maybe I'm wrong.

01:21:10.100 I want to be very careful here.

01:21:11.380 But I read that they went on a porch and grabbed a dog off a leash or something like that.

01:21:15.560 But the story of how dogs get domesticated is partly why I care so much for dogs.

01:21:23.800 The story is...

01:21:25.660 Are you familiar with the story about how dogs get domesticated by chance?

01:21:29.080 Flight time, for those that aren't familiar, is the distance between a human and an animal before the animal flees.

01:21:34.380 And human tribes would leave refuse behind, which wolves would scavenge from.

01:21:40.660 Over a very, very long time, the human tribes that tolerated the wolves and the wolves that were less aggressive lowered that flight time.

01:21:50.160 If a wolf pack came too close to the human tribe, the humans would fight them off.

01:21:54.540 The humans that were more tolerant of them and the wolves that were more tolerant of the humans succeeded more often in survival.

01:22:03.040 The wolves would urinate around the area, creating a wolf territory, which kept predators away from the humans, which started to flourish.

01:22:10.020 The wolves eventually started to become proto-dogs in that they would actually walk through human camps.

01:22:17.040 And the humans that tolerated the wolves, again, more likely to survive because the wolves would keep other predators away.

01:22:23.140 And eventually it came to a point where the humans would follow the wolves on a hunt, successfully take down a large game.

01:22:30.220 The wolves could not.

01:22:31.160 And they all ate substantially more.

01:22:32.980 And this, through thousands of years of pressure, created the human-dog bond.

01:22:38.840 Yeah.

01:22:39.140 10,000 years of hardwiring to create that special bond where the dog will wait for the master.

01:22:46.280 For 10 years.

01:22:47.720 You ever see Futurama?

01:22:49.860 The Futurama show?

01:22:51.140 Oh, yeah.

01:22:51.520 It's like Fry.

01:22:52.320 Of course.

01:22:52.540 Remember, there was that episode with his dog, Fry's dog.

01:22:54.660 It's very sad.

01:22:55.720 My girlfriend, she breaks up crying every time.

01:22:58.360 But it's the same idea.

01:22:59.720 It's very real.

01:23:01.260 It's special.

01:23:01.820 I mean, but scarily, that's also why the government targets dogs because they say it themselves.

01:23:10.620 The beagle is the breed of choice because they're gentle and docile.

01:23:15.560 Because of that hardwiring of 10,000 years of evolutionary pressure, they are targeted for that because they're not going to fight back.

01:23:24.760 They're docile.

01:23:25.580 And that flight time is not going to happen with the dog.

01:23:28.660 Look, it's a sick, sick government policy.

01:23:33.180 We've smoked that out.

01:23:34.200 We found it on their website themselves, the HHS department.

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01:24:37.880 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

01:24:42.320 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

01:24:49.460 We care about you.

01:24:50.760 We care about you.

01:24:51.540 Fulman Auto Insurance personalized to your needs.

01:24:54.820 Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

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01:25:03.340 Did I mention that we care?

01:25:06.680 They do it.

01:25:07.760 They take advantage of that.

01:25:09.460 You know, I learned this when I was a little kid.

01:25:11.200 My dad's a firefighter.

01:25:12.500 He said, do you know what happens when there's a fire and the family has a dog?

01:25:19.860 Typically, the dog has scratched the door bloody, trying to open the door to alert the family to the fire or save them.

01:25:28.020 He said, do you know what a cat does when there's a fire?

01:25:31.220 We don't know.

01:25:32.440 We never find them.

01:25:34.260 I like cats.

01:25:35.220 I have a cat.

01:25:35.820 His name is Mr. Bocas.

01:25:36.720 He's very nice.

01:25:37.780 Cats are very independent.

01:25:38.980 I respect cats for what cats want to do.

01:25:40.820 They're more libertarian.

01:25:42.420 Dogs are more loyal soldiers.

01:25:43.840 Do you know what happens when, I'll get a little brutal on you, do you know what happens when an elderly person or just a person in general dies home alone with their dog?

01:25:55.720 Not with a dog.

01:25:56.900 Typically, they find, this is what I'm told, they find the dog dead of dehydration next to the owner.

01:26:03.580 The dog stays with them and then passes on after running out of food or water.

01:26:09.160 Do you know what cats do?

01:26:11.680 I think I know where you're going.

01:26:14.100 They eat the body.

01:26:15.660 I think I know where you're going.

01:26:16.700 I can, to a certain degree, respect the cat being like, I'm not going to die.

01:26:20.720 You know, they're fiercely independent.

01:26:22.480 I'm not trying to rag on cats.

01:26:23.580 I have heard that.

01:26:24.780 I can't confirm or deny it, but I have heard that too.

01:26:28.060 I'm just trying to exemplify the understanding of what dogs mean to humans and why they say man's best friend and all that and why, you know, for me, to hear that these large nonprofits care so little for these animals and would do something like this, I just want to stress, I think we should all.

01:26:51.160 I read a story once about a farmer whose dog was shot by his neighbor and the government said, you're awarded $300 for the replacement of your property.

01:27:00.760 Uh-uh.

01:27:01.800 It's not property.

01:27:02.840 You know, it's awful that, yeah, it's awful, but it's, you know, and with nonprofits and all of them, you know, all these establishment groups who are working in the space that I work in on the issue I work on with animal testing.

01:27:24.820 It, it's really been a culture of losing, losing so many campaigns on animal testing that was not necessary, right?

01:27:33.240 We, we, this problem of animal testing getting worse, worse on their watch, on the establishment's watch never should have happened.

01:27:43.540 Government funding of animal testing wasn't always $20 billion.

01:27:47.300 Okay.

01:27:47.720 It was much less.

01:27:49.860 Um, this may have been a five, $6 billion a year problem.

01:27:53.280 Not that long ago.

01:27:54.820 You go back, the NIH budget started the process of tripling in 1995, the same year I worked in an animal lab when I was in high school, the budget began a process of tripling, right?

01:28:06.080 Over the course of many years.

01:28:07.360 And at the same time, they were doling out 50 cents on the dollar for dog experiments, uh, vaping experiments, all of them.

01:28:14.600 So the point is the establishment could have killed this thing in the crib.

01:28:19.240 This wasn't a $20 billion program back then.

01:28:22.780 It was like a five, you know, or less billion dollar program.

01:28:25.480 They could have killed it in the crib.

01:28:26.760 They didn't.

01:28:28.280 This is the, this is the problem of government.

01:28:30.260 It's, it's, but it's, it's the, and it's also the problem of establishment nonprofits because a lot of them like government.

01:28:36.080 A lot of them think government is a good thing and it's an inherently good force for animals.

01:28:41.260 And it's not, I mean, and it's, it was the big problem in the room.

01:28:44.580 It was the elephant in the room and this, this culture of, of, of, of, of, of.

01:28:51.880 Thinking that the way to help animals was to grow government.

01:28:57.300 I mean, listen, you go to these, I'm telling you, that's what they think.

01:29:01.040 And, and they were asleep at, they, nobody was watching the store when government was growing and growing and growing.

01:29:07.780 And what happened?

01:29:08.760 What'd we get out of it?

01:29:09.620 I mean, we got, we got this virulent growth, the virulent growth, the taxpayer funded animal testing happened on the establishment's watch.

01:29:16.220 We had to come in and reverse this course.

01:29:18.540 You know, it feels like the new Manhattan project in a sense, secretive compartmentalized biological weapons research.

01:29:26.680 You know, I like to say this, the media will call you a conspiracy theorist.

01:29:31.260 I just say, you know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, uh, I'm not going to ascribe intent to any of these people.

01:29:37.820 I'm going to discuss the results.

01:29:40.300 If you want to tell me that you think Fauci was funding weapons research, biological weapons labs existing in these countries.

01:29:47.600 I'll say, it doesn't matter what you call it.

01:29:50.600 Let's talk about the results.

01:29:52.480 If Fauci was intentionally coming out saying, we're going to make weapons, then, uh, sure, fine.

01:29:58.300 But does it matter?

01:29:59.180 He funded the same thing.

01:30:00.940 If they're doing gain of function research that creates the most-

01:30:04.420 Impact is more important than intent.

01:30:05.840 Exactly.

01:30:06.460 So I say this, I don't care if you want to believe that Fauci did it on purpose.

01:30:09.740 He did it.

01:30:11.240 So when the media says, oh, you think there's bioweapons of black?

01:30:14.060 Oh, I don't know about all that.

01:30:15.080 All I know is that Fauci provided funding for gain of function research, which resulted in some of the most deadly viruses known to man that can be weaponized.

01:30:23.380 So you want to say that he was funding weapons research?

01:30:25.420 I'll say, no, no, no.

01:30:26.420 Let's not say that because we need a court to prove that's what the intent.

01:30:29.580 He made weapons.

01:30:31.600 It's like when, when Nobel invented dynamite, I think it was dynamite, TNT, whatever.

01:30:35.540 I don't know if the same thing.

01:30:36.120 He was intending it to be used for mining.

01:30:38.260 They called him the merchant of death.

01:30:40.040 He got freaked out by that, made the Nobel prizes because he wanted to be known for something else.

01:30:45.020 If Fauci is funding the creation of deadly viruses, do you think that when, when, when they make these viruses, the government's going to be like, better not weaponize these?

01:30:55.200 Or do you think they're going to be like, hey, we can kill people with that?

01:30:57.660 And a lot of this stuff is dual use.

01:30:59.240 So the truth is, I mean, it's just, it's truly just a flip of a switch to go from benevolent to, uh, merciless.

01:31:09.100 But the, the main, the main point here is that the impact is more important than the intent.

01:31:15.200 What do we get out of these grants to nowhere?

01:31:18.300 It doesn't matter if you had good intentions or if you had bad intentions, meaning just greed.

01:31:22.880 Um, what did we get out of it?

01:31:25.500 And it's in, in, in like, but, but Tim, the same phenomenon, the same dynamic we're talking about here for the, for, for the white coats, for the animal testers and stuff about impact is more important than intent.

01:31:36.220 It's the same for the nonprofits, right?

01:31:38.360 It, it's, it, it doesn't matter.

01:31:40.240 Even if they didn't had bad intents and they didn't want to shut down these labs because they could raise money off of it.

01:31:45.320 Even if their intent was good and they were trying, their impact was not good.

01:31:51.260 They failed.

01:31:52.280 Listen, not a single government primate lab, again, outside of our work has been shut down since 2015.

01:31:58.440 Not a single government dog lab outside of our work has been shut down since 2007.

01:32:03.060 And not a single government cat lab, maybe not ever has been shut down at least 40 years.

01:32:09.000 Maybe that's an embarrassingly bad track record.

01:32:11.480 Do you have any examples of good animal research done right?

01:32:16.200 I mean, look, there, there, there are, there are, there are certainly less invasive, less painful, I mean, or no painful.

01:32:24.240 I mean, there are, there are some innocuous, you know, observatory things out there.

01:32:29.060 I, I, I don't, nothing's coming to mind at the moment, but you know, observational in the wild kind of, I mean, there's.

01:32:34.940 You know, I asked, but I, I imagine if your focus is.

01:32:37.080 I'm sure there is.

01:32:37.800 I mean, less, you know, on a, I'm, I'm sure there are plenty of things out there that are, you know, uh, not, um, that are not, you know, they might either make sense or, or, or, um, certainly no, no sadistic abuse.

01:32:54.160 Right.

01:32:54.660 I, I, I only asked, I, I wouldn't expect you to know of good ones considering you're focused on the waste and abuse to shut it down.

01:33:01.000 You know, I, I'm just curious if, or even ones that worked, they'd like reduced.

01:33:05.860 So sure.

01:33:07.900 I mean, if I'm going to be honest about it, I mean, it, it's, it, it, look, the failure rates are horrifically bad upwards of 95%.

01:33:15.340 This is what the government admits to is that 95% of, of, of, of, of, for example, drugs that work, work in an animal fail once they go to the humans.

01:33:27.280 Right.

01:33:27.800 So, so we know the failure rates are terrible, but four to 5% presumably it works.

01:33:35.420 Uh, so the, but here's the problem.

01:33:37.660 I mean, I'm sure there are examples.

01:33:40.220 I'm not going to lie.

01:33:40.960 I mean, it, it, it, it works except when it doesn't.

01:33:43.280 Right.

01:33:43.400 It just doesn't work more far more often and it's not predictive and science is supposed to be predictive.

01:33:49.260 Science is supposed to be tested.

01:33:50.900 Science is supposed to be a predictive mechanism in which we predict that it works in the mouse and therefore it will work in Tim, you know, but humans are different than animals.

01:34:02.500 Yeah.

01:34:02.960 Humans are, it predicts from a mouse to a rat about 50% of the time.

01:34:07.860 Wow.

01:34:08.180 Really?

01:34:08.460 Mice to rats.

01:34:09.580 Yeah.

01:34:09.780 So, you know, we're not, we're not, we're not mice.

01:34:12.240 We're not rats.

01:34:12.940 We're not cats.

01:34:13.460 They're all different.

01:34:14.160 I don't think we're all equal.

01:34:15.420 I think, I think, I think if we're honest about it, I mean, I think I, I love dogs and cats, you know, as much as you do, you know, but, but I don't think we're all the same.

01:34:24.360 I think we're biologically different.

01:34:26.060 I think we're genetically different, histologically different.

01:34:28.660 I think we're all different.

01:34:30.220 I don't think an oyster is the same as a cat.

01:34:32.340 I don't think a cat's the same as a human.

01:34:33.540 It just, that's just the reality.

01:34:34.960 i'm i'm not uh you know i i don't value animals the same degree i value humans you know i care

01:34:41.860 for dogs i think dogs are are loyal they're like loyalty incarnate to a certain degree not not all

01:34:46.860 dogs are perfect some dogs are bad um but i still i just i imagine the needlessness and the horror

01:34:54.640 of the pain induced on any life form now i'm not some like hippie vegan dude i'll kill a deer i'll

01:35:02.280 eat it probably more of like a native american style thank you for what i'm about to receive

01:35:07.780 and for your sacrifice kind of mentality maybe sort of a saying grace for the gifts the life that

01:35:13.700 was taken for us that's just that's how the world works but then i think about some of these

01:35:18.500 experiments and i'm just like did we need to do that right are you familiar with the the rat hope

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01:36:49.660 the uh they put the rat the the researcher put the rat in the cylinders full of water and let

01:36:56.700 them drown yeah oh yeah it's just so merciless we learn something interesting from it but i'm just

01:37:02.720 kind of like how much do we benefit from knowing that and actually is it used against us so for those

01:37:08.340 that aren't familiar researcher takes uh rats puts them in cylinders full of water where they can't

01:37:14.240 get out they swim for about 15 minutes before realizing they can't win they give up they sink

01:37:19.340 to the bottom they drown in the next round he puts them in and right as they're giving up he takes them

01:37:24.740 out dries them off lets them rest then he picks them up and puts them back in the second time they

01:37:30.140 swam for about 60 hours because they had hope they believe that if they just kept going the hand would

01:37:35.920 come back and save them what did we learn from that that we needed to know well i think governments

01:37:42.240 learned they can torture humans and they'll tolerate it that's not information i think we needed and i

01:37:47.340 don't think we needed to subject animals to this kind of just absolute horror psychological torture

01:37:52.840 yeah and then death yeah that kind of stuff horrifies me yeah and and why do we do it repeat it

01:37:58.600 even if we did need fauci's dog experiments which we didn't why did we repeat it like eight times why

01:38:04.940 do we do it in-house at naiad and then and then outsource it to georgia and then outsource it to

01:38:09.440 tunisia variations on why are we doing the same duplicating the same thing over again if that's

01:38:14.460 one thing but let me tell you another story it it you just reminded me of one with the rats despair

01:38:21.320 drowning yeah what if it wasn't part of the experiment at all when i worked in the animal lab i didn't see

01:38:27.740 this but uh but one of the techs told me he did this it horrified me and i and i remember this like

01:38:35.400 it was yesterday it was i only worked in the lab for like a few weeks uh but it was it wasn't a long

01:38:41.280 time so it had to been pretty quick into the tenure and he told this was again we were we were working

01:38:47.360 with pigs that was the specimen that the lab i was in was doing experiments on but you know they had

01:38:54.520 other animals and he told me that there was this one time he he had a rat

01:38:59.820 not part of the experiment this was like after the day's work concluded took the rat injected her

01:39:08.100 hind legs with uh a paralytic agent presumably like ketamine or something some kind of paralytic agent

01:39:15.380 paralyzed the hind legs went over to the sink closed the drain

01:39:22.580 inserted uh the rat inserted her into the into the sink and then turn the water yeah and i said

01:39:29.600 why why would you do that why would you do that you it wasn't even part of the you just say you say

01:39:35.440 what this was no psychology experiment or this was not like this isn't this isn't even what you were

01:39:39.380 saying which was actually the purpose of the grant he said and here's what he told me he said

01:39:44.220 she was mine i could do whatever i wanted and i and i it just it it just struck me as like

01:39:50.480 the mindset of of of of some of these people that's depraved i mean i think it's depraved i

01:39:58.100 don't care i mean that wasn't even this again i didn't see this but this but he told me this himself

01:40:03.440 and and and and i believed it i do believe it and because again he told me with a straight face he goes

01:40:09.620 it was my it was my animal it was my animal i could do what i want it's not his animal so so

01:40:15.200 too many too many people in these there's so many problems with this story i mean it it's it's it's

01:40:21.720 it the depravity uh anyway are you are you religious at all i'm i'm a roman catholic i am i am not uh

01:40:28.480 catholic nor christian i grew up uh catholic i do believe in god i do believe in um i i i'll phrase it

01:40:36.000 this way i think there are people who believe we are in a cold callous universe of nothingness and

01:40:41.760 there are people who believe that there is something much bigger and more important than them

01:40:45.900 i don't like killing bugs i i i i don't there are some exceptions with um i'm not going to cry over

01:40:53.320 stepping on a bug or flushing a stink bug or anything like that well mosquitoes they they they

01:40:57.860 suck your blood you gotta i still don't like i don't like killing needlessly yeah i i don't like

01:41:04.240 just ah bugs snap especially spiders you know people are like oh it's a spider killer like no

01:41:10.540 way no spider gonna do its thing you know what would you rather have in your house spiders or

01:41:15.480 roaches you know i i heard that um what people do when they first buy properties they bring a bunch

01:41:20.580 of spiders in on purpose and let the spiders do their spidery thing for someone to say that the

01:41:26.820 animal was mine i'm like the animal doesn't belong to you the animal is a part of earth and life and all

01:41:33.460 that stuff and this idea that the animal is yours to do as you please it's a very egocentric

01:41:39.540 narcissistic worldview in my opinion life is life life exists i think we're fine to eat plants and

01:41:48.580 animals because it serves a purpose but the needless destruction that to me is what evil is i believe that

01:41:55.840 we are here to be good stewards of the earth we are here to create and expand i i typically see that

01:42:03.300 most things we consider to be good are in the service of creation and most things we consider

01:42:08.380 to be better in the service of destruction sometimes you can destroy things for the better good if there

01:42:13.120 is a weapons stockpile being built by an evil person who intends to destroy and we blow that up we have

01:42:19.000 destroyed but we did it in the service of more creation of more organization so when i hear stories

01:42:24.460 like like that where there are people who feel that they have some sort of like absolute right to do

01:42:30.800 something like that i'm just like no you don't no you don't if you look get away with it yeah sure

01:42:36.100 if you look at look at look at the euphemisms that the the animal experimenters the white coats

01:42:41.480 the bad guys are using when you read their papers right they never say we killed the animal you know

01:42:46.820 they'll say we sacrificed the animal is that what they say they'll use euphemisms like sacrifice now

01:42:51.640 we work with a um a pathologist on our on our board named dr hansen who's a world famous um alzheimer's

01:42:59.980 researcher and and and and against you know what we're doing to these dogs and other animals in the

01:43:05.120 lab and he told me and he he he pointed this out to me and he goes you know and he he again he he killed

01:43:12.740 dogs as part of his training and and and and uh is is now vocally against it and has uh works with

01:43:20.560 us to shut the labs down long story short he pointed this out to me he goes and he said this

01:43:25.520 to his peers who were doing this and he said you guys say you sacrificed that animal you didn't

01:43:31.420 sacrifice anything when you sacrifice something you're giving up something that's important to you

01:43:36.360 yeah if you sacrifice for lent if you sacrifice for for whatever you sacrifice you know in biblical

01:43:43.780 story you sacrifice your child for the ain't you know whatever you're giving up something you care

01:43:49.360 about and it's important to you you're you're doing nothing of the kind this is property this

01:43:54.260 is a this is a test tube or or a government you know piece of government property that you're you're

01:43:58.220 you're not sacrificing that's window dressing that's euphemism i think uh kind of to deviate

01:44:04.340 into a similar space with what people describe as factory farming i know a lot of people say they

01:44:08.080 don't like the term it doesn't really make sense farms are farmed but there's just like larger scale

01:44:12.040 farms where the animals do not have very good lives i'm not a fan of any of that and i think it's not

01:44:16.640 so much just about you know if you want to call it animal rights or something or respecting life

01:44:20.420 it's about what it's doing to us as people in taking away our agency and responsibility for

01:44:26.460 ourselves similar to what you're saying about someone saying they sacrificed no you didn't you

01:44:30.460 received a shipment of mice and then you killed them yeah just admit to what you're doing be honest

01:44:34.700 about yeah yeah be honest about yeah just say that and and and can you justify to yourself why

01:44:40.080 you did it too much of these projects that you you talk about and what you focus on make no sense

01:44:45.860 they're unjustified it is just somebody saying i need the grant i don't want to be out of work

01:44:50.100 and so they say yeah i'll make hamsters fight on steroids i guess and we'll see what happens and it's

01:44:54.740 like come on we know in human steroids boost aggression and like this is a what does the people want

01:45:01.780 money yeah but i think we would be better served as a community as people our children are better

01:45:08.520 served if they learn responsibility and respect for for life in general and that means you know

01:45:15.380 i think in the bigger picture people are better off with more space to themselves i think cities

01:45:19.980 have become a very big problem in terms of the density the pollution the social decay and all of

01:45:25.900 these things i have been uh i've been saying for a long time get out of cities get a small piece of

01:45:31.640 land get some chickens get some animals care for them tend for like tend to them be more

01:45:36.560 responsible for yourself and your life be a better steward of the earth what i see with animal

01:45:42.100 testing what i see with big cities is the mechanization and industrialization of life

01:45:46.740 which is turning us into mindless drone robots that are addicted to this system it's it's the antithesis

01:45:55.160 of what i think life on earth should be yeah in all of it yeah i mean it's gone way off the rails

01:46:01.540 it's it's you talk about you know sacrifice and just needless needless wastefulness of not just

01:46:08.080 money but life one of the things we work on is what happens on day two for these animals if we shut

01:46:15.300 the lab down right if we shut the lab down what happens to the survivors on day two what happens to

01:46:22.020 the dogs the cats monkeys etc what does that mean well good question because it we found out in in

01:46:28.960 sometime around 20 summer 2018 we were having some success fortunately of getting the projects

01:46:34.740 defunded getting labs shut down and what was happening to them we realized was they were killing

01:46:41.380 the they were killing healthy survivors they weren't in other words they weren't the government was not

01:46:45.480 even letting the taxpayers who pay for animal testing giving them the the right they're not even not

01:46:53.720 allowing taxpayers to adopt survivors right so think about that once the experiment was done

01:46:59.500 completed or the lab was defunded they were offing they were they were wasting these animals they were

01:47:07.220 they were literally killing them out of convenience because these bureaucrats were were were too lazy or

01:47:12.600 too cheap to adopt them out yeah and there were no policies in place to let families adopt dogs and cats

01:47:19.860 or let sanctuaries adopt the monk or take the monkeys retire them so you know fights against that

01:47:25.600 stuff well i mean it it's it's we're fighting for it we're you know we started this initiative this

01:47:31.520 project called give them back right taxpayers bought them we bought them tim you know give them back

01:47:38.380 give them back to us let the taxpayers have the right to uh to to adopt out the survivors um i i i have

01:47:46.000 two of them from from from the u.s department of agriculture the two to uh from the kitten

01:47:50.220 slaughterhouse and and you know the the the the we are fighting to change that across the federal

01:47:56.820 government uh to make retirement a requirement to make adoption an option uh in florida we have uh

01:48:04.780 we shut down a nicotine addiction lab this was this was this was back in 20 a 17 18 during the it was

01:48:12.560 the trump administration we shut down a nicotine addiction lab at the at the food and drug

01:48:17.300 administration where baby monkeys were put in chambers there's also video of smoke or something

01:48:23.480 yes but the way they smoke was they pushed levers for nicotine hits so they they were wearing the cat

01:48:28.900 they were wearing the vests you know the street jackets kind of thing and uh the catheter was infusing

01:48:35.500 nicotine into their veins and arteries so they they would push a lever for a hit we have this on video

01:48:40.580 we got the uh we have these monkeys are addicted yeah and they would they would press it to get

01:48:45.220 more correct so they were baby monkey nicotine addiction experiments and um this was a 5.5 million

01:48:51.920 dollar addiction lab in arkansas at the food and drug administration did they explain what the purpose

01:48:57.260 is did they say like here's what we're trying to find i mean they were doing vaping and and and

01:49:01.800 looking at the yeah so for example they said well we know that smoking is addicting and we know that

01:49:07.620 vaping has this effect but but here's the thing tim we don't know what the effect is on the juvenile

01:49:11.580 so there are four variations on a theme they do so you know we got the we we expose this one find

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01:50:14.440 operating agreement with i gaming ontario when you really care about someone you shouted from the

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01:50:44.500 we had success in shutting it down and we got the the monkeys got a they got retired and and uh to a

01:50:53.940 sanctuary in florida and you know we're trying to create the same effect now across the federal

01:50:58.760 government so that taxpayers have a right to adopt them you know i don't uh i don't know a lot of the

01:51:06.560 specific details but i know that there is challenges with a lot of these animal rights organizations trying

01:51:10.360 to take away people's rights to adopt yeah um survivors or abused animals and things like that

01:51:16.020 yeah they try to make it illegal in a bunch of states they even yeah as we mentioned in some

01:51:20.740 instances have kidnapped animals yeah and i feel like that's also just not solving the problem like

01:51:25.260 no there was a funny story in new zealand i interviewed this guy named gareth morgan he's

01:51:31.840 apparently famous because he said well the media reported he said kill cats we should go out and kill

01:51:37.860 all the house cats and i interviewed him he's like i never said that he's like i said we just

01:51:41.880 don't let him have any more babies because they're killing the local animal population and things like

01:51:46.280 that and uh you know his his attitude towards the cats was uh they were brought here they're

01:51:52.380 destroying everything because they're essentially apex predators let's stop breeding them you know a

01:51:57.620 harsh reality but of course then people are like oh he's evil and he wants to kill cats so i

01:52:02.220 recognize that there are some times where it's like hard decisions are made you know for for for balance and

01:52:07.040 things like that but it does feel like when it comes to a lot of what these larger animal rights

01:52:12.800 organizations do is we need to justify our existence let's just say people shouldn't have a right to own

01:52:17.700 animals and then it's like well look we know the animal labs are bad not not all of them i think it's

01:52:23.220 unfair to i think that important research has to be done and there's terrifying things that get done

01:52:27.780 sometimes but you know i'm not an absolutist but then what do you do with the animals afterwards are we

01:52:33.200 just gonna be like put them down that's ridiculous but a lot of people yes let them live let them live

01:52:38.760 madness i mean it's absolute madness and and you know the establishment animal rights movement really

01:52:46.200 needs to check itself on some not just priorities but also on impact i mean what if you care about

01:52:54.220 shutting animal labs down and you're donating to these groups you really should be asking some hard

01:52:58.860 questions again why is it that not a single primate lab in the federal government got shot down got

01:53:04.760 shut down during either the trump administration or the biden administration it's not a partisan thing

01:53:09.940 and again outside of our work because we we have shut them down but if we're not an establishment group

01:53:15.380 and but if you were i'd be asking some tough questions is misplaced priorities or failed strategy you

01:53:22.140 know just poor let me ask your thought on this i don't know if it's fair to say or not but i'm i'm you

01:53:27.400 know fauci retires excuse me retires do you think that was largely due to the work you guys did

01:53:33.080 well you know i think it it it i i think it had a you never know for sure but i would say i do think

01:53:42.900 that i give you credit well thank you uh look the goal wasn't to make him retire but it was the goal

01:53:49.420 was to get the truth out there the goal was to cut the wasteful spending uh the goal is to expose the

01:53:54.320 wuhan lab the goal was to uh end the beagle experiments and we've had success with a lot of

01:53:59.960 that you know if fauci wasn't alone we we've exposed listen i mean we we you know we we were

01:54:07.600 doing this for during the trump administration we were doing it during the biden administration we

01:54:11.580 are still doing it to their biden administration we started at the tail end of the obama administration

01:54:16.260 uh fauci was the most well known the but you know the the fauci's resignation unfortunately the dirty

01:54:26.140 business is still going on at nih the the lab leak investigation still needs to proceed the beagle

01:54:32.100 labs the rest of them that still need to be shut down think thinking about fauci's retirement

01:54:37.240 and uh you know mentioning the work you did through the trump administration i'm i'm having

01:54:42.760 this strange feeling of optimism and that i feel like you don't have to agree with me on this one

01:54:48.360 but i kind of feel like that if trump gets re-elected there's a possibility that so much

01:54:52.160 good can come about and so much can be cleaned up in government because of the things that they did to

01:54:59.020 donald trump politically he seems like a man hell-bent on revenge and that sounds to me like

01:55:04.880 he's going to be open ears on all of these kinds of stories of wasteful spending of government

01:55:09.480 corruption and he's going to be just hell-bent on fire them all and i think we we may see something

01:55:17.000 really good in the next few years it may be um they are you familiar with the fourth turning

01:55:22.460 strassau generational theory no it's uh the fourth turning there's four four seasons they call it every

01:55:28.240 20 years and uh these guys hypothesize that every 80 years is a great calamity so we had 80 years ago

01:55:35.820 we had world war ii 80 years before that we had a civil war 80 years before that it was uh revolution

01:55:40.020 watershed moments yeah and um we should be in it now and coming out of it around 2026 i'm wondering if

01:55:47.020 this is it this this this extreme degree of corruption and malice manipulation um mismanagement

01:55:53.440 and maybe some people fear the fourth turning results in world war three maybe maybe it's civil war

01:56:00.460 maybe we're in the worst of it and you know we're just used to seeing the worst of it this government

01:56:06.200 corruption in so many different ways reckless spending um global conflict and maybe coming

01:56:11.880 out of the fourth turning into the springtime season they call it where things start improving

01:56:15.880 you know because you you get a good good time and you get hard times and you get a good time

01:56:19.900 maybe it's with a maybe not trump maybe whoever comes after him cleaning up all of this corruption

01:56:26.520 and bureaucracy and these messes and we just start to see the blossoming of something positive

01:56:31.460 and and the the cleaning up of the negative it's a much bigger picture than just wasteful spending and

01:56:37.580 animal stuff yeah but i do feel like when it comes to the animal uh experimentation trump's going to be

01:56:44.540 going in and he's going to be like where are we wasting money what can we solve what can we fix and

01:56:48.880 who are we firing and someone like he's going to come around and be like look at what fauci was signing

01:56:53.140 off on he's going to be like yeah that guy was bad news and that was a mistake what should we do

01:56:57.580 and i think there's going to be a huge opportunity he's going to be like i'm done with this we met with

01:57:03.040 the trump white house in january of 2020 it wasn't and we went and we met with them among other things

01:57:11.600 about the wuhan lab remember the cat lab the usda lab that we had shut down was the year before

01:57:18.280 yeah so the 27 labs in china was on our radar right chance favors the prepared mind that's how

01:57:25.340 we knew about it we were involved with china and animal testing in 2019 so we were luck we were lucky

01:57:30.860 and fortunate but at the same time we we you know some luck some skill we met with them in january of

01:57:38.160 2020 it wasn't a pandemic yet it was an epidemic it was it was not it was like literally it wasn't

01:57:44.800 pronounced a pandemic for a little while longer um but again we were there to talk about all of the

01:57:50.240 administrative state animal testing problems because that that is where the epicenter of animal testing

01:57:54.760 problems it's in the administrative state the nih the cdc the epa the usda the fda the doj

01:58:00.320 um that is what we focus on these these terror these acronym bureaucracies riddled with tyrants in

01:58:07.940 white lab coats who abuse animals that was the agenda but because but we also knew that um

01:58:15.160 president trump was prioritizing china in in his um and that would have been the fourth year of the

01:58:21.800 administration so so that was the agenda and we were there to meet about about all the animal testing

01:58:27.180 in the federal government and um when we fired the invest the shot around the world the first

01:58:35.160 investigation uh u.s taxpayers funded the 3.7 million dollar grant of which part of it went to

01:58:42.340 the wuhan lab that investigation didn't come out until easter sunday of 2020 that was our investigation

01:58:49.140 in the daily mail which was the very first i have time we covered it yeah we talked that one came out

01:58:55.180 that's right and that's we easter sunday that came out okay about a week later about a week later

01:59:03.300 there was one of the famous press conference on stage president trump uh one of those coronavirus

01:59:08.800 briefings remember yeah when he whacked the eco health grant on stage about a week after our

01:59:13.840 investigation came out and he said the words he used go back and watch it there's tremendous

01:59:19.040 waste in the government okay oh yeah it was one of the greatest days of my life when he did that um

01:59:26.700 and and um one of the greatest days of my life when our brand name was was was was was was was tagged

01:59:33.620 on that um for exposing that that that that uh the lab leak money how did you feel when uh john stewart

01:59:41.160 came out to colbert and said it was awesome i mean and they and colbert argues with them and uh it was

01:59:47.680 awesome you know early on my position i'm i'm i'm fairly middle of the road and so i said lab leak

01:59:53.300 seems to make a lot of sense we'll see you know if they're if if this is where i'm always very very

01:59:58.440 much but as time goes on it becomes more and more impossible to deny the obvious especially when

02:00:03.900 you've got the majority of people being like let's hold on here a minute either it came from bats a

02:00:09.480 thousand miles away and then somehow brought to a wet market to be consumed or they brought it to the

02:00:15.200 lab where they do the research on bats with coronaviruses that we know they did and i remember when i when

02:00:20.460 i covered the uh the initial uh publication from i think it's south china university i think it's

02:00:25.020 coming in the name wrong where they said it may have resulted because the bats did these things

02:00:29.420 that was called a conspiracy theory yeah it's remarkable and uh they started suspending people

02:00:36.000 and demonetizing people and telling you to shut up the crazy thing about all this to be honest is

02:00:39.580 when um i believe it was like january 18th of 2020 could be the day i could be wrong 16th maybe

02:00:46.800 when i covered the story of this virus in wuhan youtube was set was telling us we will lock your

02:00:53.640 content we will we will demonetize you if you talk about this yeah that was very strange so if something

02:00:58.620 happening in a foreign country about a pandemic we can't talk about it there's video it's very weird

02:01:02.900 videos of guys in full bio suits spraying things down people collapsing in the street and they said if

02:01:08.740 you talk about this we take your money away yeah that makes no sense no something weird was going on

02:01:14.740 no so you know and and look it's it's it's the you asked about john stewart when i when i saw that

02:01:21.180 it was it was amazing it was a year later i think that was may of 21 um i'm pretty sure it was may or

02:01:28.760 possibly early june but it was the spring of 2021 so it was a year after you know uh april of 2020

02:01:36.360 long story short look we fired the shot heard around the world the very first investigation

02:01:42.160 u.s taxpayers spent 3.7 million dollars right that was us uh that that put that in the daily mail

02:01:48.120 but i didn't think at that moment in time that it was probable that the wuhan lab was response that

02:01:56.700 did it you thought it was i thought it was possible to be if i'm going to be honest about it i mean look

02:02:00.720 i i thought it was possible that it came out of there you know who's to say right but you know look

02:02:06.560 20 years before that it is true that the sars one did come from the wet market you know we know that

02:02:11.720 we've pinned the animal down all previous last you know uh you know not all but you know in many in

02:02:18.300 many cases if not most they did come from direct animal to you that is true there was a pattern of

02:02:23.600 that you know i thought it was possible and remember again we were invested in the wet markets in the

02:02:29.300 sense of their usda rounding up wet market meat so you know i thought it was possible i shifted from

02:02:35.940 pot and again remember we were not following the science we were following the money so our our

02:02:39.880 contribution was the grant you know pinning down the eco health grant we exposed that but in terms

02:02:45.120 of me me me shifting my perspective of possible to probable didn't happen until much later in 2020

02:02:54.280 i read uh dr stephen quay uh and and others in in drastic and uh which i'm now a member of uh

02:03:03.320 scientists and researchers who who who who put out you know all the evidence started moving

02:03:10.760 decisively towards the uh the probability that it happened i shifted later in the year but

02:03:16.640 yeah i i i just try i i'm trying to be careful i don't want people to think that i'm taking credit

02:03:22.060 for knowing or thinking it was obvious like no i was fairly middle of the road for the most of it

02:03:25.580 because i don't know i'm not a scientist and i try not to come out but i think at this point

02:03:29.260 with everything we have yeah it's just we're there we're there i i i suppose the uh we should wrap up

02:03:36.920 on one one final segment and that is the future yeah h5n1 i believe is the avian flu strain i read

02:03:45.040 that uh a few few years ago they were doing gain of function research we did briefly touch on this

02:03:49.600 earlier but i think this is the takeaway for people to understand what's going on gain of function

02:03:53.720 research where they intentionally transmitted they did everything and this is what they do with gain of

02:03:58.580 function they try to do everything they do everything in their power to make sure the virus

02:04:01.260 mutates in a way that can attain an acquired outcome or whatever in this instance they wanted

02:04:07.320 to infect mammals with the with ferrets with the bird flu and they succeeded however they did

02:04:14.160 whatever happened we are now seeing it emerge in mammals yeah 60 mortality it could be the only

02:04:22.980 reason this thing happens i mean in what circumstance do you have avian flu being in such close proximity

02:04:29.900 to a large group of mammals that the mutation can occur it is a rare thing in nature maybe with chicken

02:04:36.140 farm something like that there is a strong possibility that if h5n1 does become a pandemic

02:04:42.260 and we're hearing the murmurs already of it popping up in mammal pop i think a few humans may have died

02:04:46.980 already from it it could be gain of function research that caused it yeah that's the fear

02:04:53.440 it it is and you know on that note i mean it it's it's whether or not you care about animals or love

02:04:59.780 animals or just kind of like them whether or not you care about wasteful government spending and

02:05:04.200 excessive taxation regulation and burden of the administrative straight even if you don't

02:05:08.580 do you care about life on the planet do you care about the end you know that 80 year

02:05:13.260 turmoil that you know that you were talking about that 80 year apocalypse or or whatever

02:05:17.420 that that that were due for i mean do you care about that because that's the h5n1 taxpayer funded

02:05:22.700 animal testing is now at the core of of of that kind of uh apocalyptic scenario i mean it it do you care

02:05:29.460 about 19 to 20 million dead do you care about the lockdowns do you care about the mandates do you

02:05:34.880 care about about what our lives became over the last few years and what they did to us

02:05:38.760 i can imagine taking on a new level of significance i can imagine a worst case scenario if you google

02:05:45.080 right now for those are listening the stories about h5n1 humans who have died from it the the spread to

02:05:50.500 humans uh to mammals it's scary and hopefully it goes nowhere hopefully it's it's nothing to worry

02:05:55.680 about but i could i could imagine a reality in which they locked down again h5n1 especially look

02:06:02.920 whether you're of a conspiratorial mind or not there's an election coming up and politicians

02:06:09.100 love a good crisis so i'm not saying they will make a pandemic i'm saying the media will start

02:06:15.100 screaming about the dangers and they'll want to get you scared and stuff like that but i could imagine

02:06:19.640 a future in which a very serious avian flu kills way more than covet did and your your rights and your

02:06:26.380 freedoms are destroyed and it's and they say oh yeah we did that research we did we we did that

02:06:31.940 maybe um in the next few years it'll come out more definitively about the research being done at wuhan

02:06:37.960 maybe not maybe they've gotten rid of all the events already but you can't play with fire

02:06:43.200 and then when the fire spreads be surprised yeah and that's that's exactly what we're doing right

02:06:48.720 now and i and i just don't think it makes sense there are 20 there are still 27 labs in china

02:06:54.780 eligible for payouts there are labs all around the world the government accountability office itself

02:07:00.020 just endorsed our findings on this we are playing with fire you know the lessons are not being learned

02:07:05.600 here tim it took three years to delist the wuhan institute of virology from eligibility from the

02:07:11.640 payroll that's how long so we're not moving almost an admission of guilt they we we smoked it out it

02:07:17.420 just just last week we had to smoke that i was on the washington times front cover you're right

02:07:21.940 they didn't they didn't why did the nih not comment on the story you know i mean it's it

02:07:26.180 admission of guilt let's just brush that one under the rug it's like maybe we should yeah let's just

02:07:31.620 quietly remove them from the list and putting it in china i mean where the standards are probably so

02:07:35.700 lax i mean it's like doing it in the i mean somebody told me that it's the equivalent where

02:07:41.100 we were doing the experiments in a dentist's office that level of biosecurity right yeah um no knock

02:07:46.860 on dentist my dad's a dentist but but again they're not prepared to do gain of function

02:07:51.060 serial passaging and that kind of uh dangerous animal testing so uh let's let's we'll uh we'll

02:07:56.420 tie this up with a nice little bow what do you think the key takeaways for people after watching

02:08:00.380 this like what's the final thoughts what people what should they know what should they think where

02:08:04.480 can we go you know just look to stop taxpayer funded animal testing you really have to stop

02:08:09.900 wasteful government spending that's you know that's that is the key i mean it's it's 20 billion

02:08:14.920 dollars a year of animal testing money it's all taxpayer funded whether you like it or not

02:08:20.480 stop the money stop the madness that's the key takeaway stop the money stop the madness and that's

02:08:27.180 what the white coat waste project is all about and uh the madness could lead to the apocalypse

02:08:31.740 may already have yeah i hope not uh do is there any you want to uh shout anything out is there

02:08:37.680 how people can find you your website thank you so much tim i really appreciate you know being on the

02:08:42.600 show today and any anybody in the audience watching can find us follow us on on on social

02:08:47.320 media hopefully we'll be unbanned soon on twitter white coat waste is our handle you know you can

02:08:52.600 visit us on white coat waste our website white coat waste.org it's a funny name white coat waste.org

02:08:59.420 uh hard to say a little bit white coat waste peter piper picked up but you gotta you gotta you gotta

02:09:05.340 have some fun with it too yeah in these dark times white coat waste.org yeah i guess you know my my

02:09:11.380 final thoughts on all this is that it comes from sometimes the strangest of places or where you're

02:09:15.340 not looking i think the average person isn't really thinking too much about wasteful animal research but

02:09:21.160 i think that if people knew uh years before covid pandemic pandemic may have never happened if they

02:09:30.640 it's it's it's it's just man it's just kind of fascinating to me if you tracked down needless

02:09:37.640 beagle torture you could have prevented the pandemic but nobody saw that coming and so that's

02:09:44.040 what i say you know you look at this and it could come from from some it could come from anywhere and

02:09:48.660 you just never know if we pay attention to these wasteful projects if we pay attention to wasteful

02:09:57.280 government spending we could prevent the apocalypse you just never know it's like that's why it's

02:10:01.820 important to be active to pay attention to have people held account accountable for whatever may

02:10:06.520 whatever it may be sometimes seemingly innocuous things so that's my final thoughts but uh thanks

02:10:11.420 for hanging on man this has been absolutely uh fascinating my pleasure thank you so much for

02:10:14.840 having absolutely as always and for everybody uh watching become a member at timcast.com uh a little

02:10:20.420 late in the show but castbrew.com support our coffee company help us uh build this culture and

02:10:25.980 thanks for hanging out we'll have clips from this show up throughout the the week and then

02:10:30.400 more to come and we'll see you all next time

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The Culture War - Tim Pool

The Culture War #13 - Anthony Bellotti, EXPOSING Dr. Fauci Corruption And COVID Lab Leak

Summary

Transcript