The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #2 - Pete Parada, Former Offspring Drummer Replaced Over Vax Mandate

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00:00:58.140 We are hanging out here with Pete Parada, famous drummer, formerly of The Offspring.

00:01:04.400 And there's a lot of stuff I want to talk to you about, but I guess it's like the first interview

00:01:08.000 you've ever done following the news situation you found yourself in.

00:01:13.180 Yeah. I mean, for about a year and a half, I've just sort of stayed out of it, stayed away from it.

00:01:18.700 Um, and you know, I, I didn't want to talk to anybody that that's all they wanted to talk about,

00:01:25.240 you know, we're definitely going to talk about it, vaccine mandates and being in the band,

00:01:29.620 but not yet. I thought it'd be cool. Uh, and I appreciate you coming on and talking about it,

00:01:33.380 but there's probably a bunch of other stuff we could talk about for sure. The gist of the story,

00:01:36.100 I guess is you played in the, uh, band, The Offspring, which I'm sure many people have heard

00:01:41.300 of for 14 years, 14 years. And then they unceremoniously fired you over the VAX mandates.

00:01:48.500 Yeah. I mean, basically, I guess we'll, we'll just dive right in.

00:01:52.460 Well, we will, but that's, I want to make sure like everybody who's tuning in now,

00:01:55.780 they understand like the big cultural context, I suppose. But I'm, I'm, I'm definitely interested

00:02:00.920 in talking to you about the music industry in general. And I want to start off by telling you a,

00:02:04.640 a quick story, which is just a really crazy. So, uh, what is today's Friday, Wednesday night

00:02:10.980 after we wrapped Timcast IRL, I go back to my house. I don't know if you heard me say this,

00:02:17.320 but I'll tell you the story anyway. And I'm getting ready for bed. I go in my bedroom with

00:02:20.960 my girlfriend, right? And I turned the TV on. It's a smart TV, meaning like you turn a smart TV on,

00:02:26.360 you got to pick an app, right? Normally when I turn it on, there's nothing on. So I turned the TV on,

00:02:30.760 put the remote down, go in the bathroom, take out my contacts, you know, wash my face or something.

00:02:35.700 And then all of a sudden I hear Killboy Powerhead, Offspring song. And I'm like,

00:02:40.560 did Alison turn something on? And I walked back into the room and she goes, Alison says,

00:02:44.140 did you turn this on? And I was like, no. And I look and it's you at a big show playing in the

00:02:51.640 Offspring with, you know, and Killboy Powerhead was a song y'all were playing. And then Alison was like,

00:02:57.020 that's really weird. That's super weird. And I was like, I didn't turn it. She's like,

00:03:00.440 you turned this on. I was like, no, I didn't. I just pressed power. Like what app would I even

00:03:05.240 turn on to make this happen, to make this song play? It's pretty, pretty deep cut too.

00:03:10.040 Yeah. I was like, and then, well, at first I see Dexter, he's the lead singer of the Offspring.

00:03:14.700 He's singing Killboy Powerhead. And I'm like, oh, of course I know the song. And then it cuts to

00:03:20.060 you playing the drums. And I was like, wow, that's really weird. But anyway, I just thought it was

00:03:25.340 weird that you were coming here to talk about these issues and a bunch of other stuff. And sure

00:03:30.500 enough, that weird serendipitous thing happened. So let's just, we'll get into it now that I've

00:03:36.920 wasted enough people's time. I'm reading the news. It was weird when the story broke because it

00:03:44.740 actually didn't get a lot of coverage initially. It was like music blogs and Offspring fans. And

00:03:51.280 there was murmuring with like the music scene that the drummer for the Offspring had been fired

00:03:56.680 for being an anti-vaxxer or... Everyone loves that term.

00:04:02.220 Exactly. And then, you know, of course I saw the establishment saying things like anti-vax

00:04:07.640 conspiracies or like he, you know, it was crazy to read these stories about you because I actually

00:04:14.500 looked at the story. I looked at your Instagram posts and there were elements of the media saying

00:04:19.300 he was pushing anti-vax conspiracies or was refusing to get the vaccine. And that was totally wrong.

00:04:28.040 So long story short of it, you get fired after 14 years. Let's just have you tell the story that

00:04:34.180 everyone's dying to hear, I guess.

00:04:35.880 All right. Yeah. I mean, basically, you know, spring 2021, you know, we put out a new record.

00:04:43.680 And so we spent all those months in the spring. I was out in LA with everybody interacting, totally

00:04:50.360 fine, recording music videos, promotional stuff, all through May. Everything was fine, no issues. And

00:04:59.160 then in June, all of a sudden, like COVID protocol controls, whatever you want, kind of comes to a

00:05:05.840 head. And I get a phone call from their manager. And it was just the most, like unnecessarily

00:05:13.580 abusive, threatening call I've ever received, like just screaming at me of, you know, you need to do

00:05:21.900 this. And, and I was like, well, you know, I talked to my doctor about it. I have a medical exemption

00:05:27.820 and didn't, didn't care, didn't matter. Like he just made it perfectly clear.

00:05:32.560 So this is, it's, what do you say, May of 2021?

00:05:36.040 Yeah. Well, this was June. So last time I went out there was May.

00:05:39.100 But when did, when did the demands, was it the first time they said, get your vaccine?

00:05:43.600 Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't, it wasn't a, a, a secret that I was not, you know, lining up to do

00:05:53.040 this. And, um, you know, but it did like to just get this, I just assumed we were going to have a

00:05:59.340 conversation about like, Hey, here's, here's my feelings. Here's, you know, where I'm at with

00:06:04.380 things. And it was just, you know, this phone call was just like, I don't even, this was a new

00:06:09.720 manager. I don't even know this guy.

00:06:11.100 But was there, there was no conversation before this? Like they didn't come to you and say,

00:06:15.140 Hey, look, man, you really got to get the vaccine.

00:06:16.700 I had had like gentler conversations with them about like my feelings and my thoughts where I was

00:06:25.320 at and my medical, you know, uh, history and, and my concerns about, you know, going into this.

00:06:32.860 And I, you know, the last we left it was, all right, you know, sounds like we're going to have

00:06:37.540 more conversations about this, you know, you know, to be continued.

00:06:41.560 Yeah. And then it didn't feel definitive. They didn't.

00:06:43.560 No, no. It felt like we had opened a conversation that was going to keep going. And then a week later

00:06:49.440 out of nowhere, I get this call. That's just, you know, annihilation and was just, you know,

00:06:55.820 so he, he made it very clear by the end of that conversation that I was to get the shot or I was

00:07:00.480 out. Wow. And you know, so I, it was clear. Like he said, get the shot or you're out. Yeah.

00:07:06.420 Yeah. That was the gist of, of the whole conversation. And so I wrote to the band that

00:07:12.500 night and said, you know, again, listed off my feelings on everything, but also pointed out like,

00:07:19.820 Hey, you know, you, you can fire me over this. I get that, but you should know this guy's

00:07:26.260 representing you. He's abusive, uh, threatening. And if he's, if he's being like this to me,

00:07:32.600 I can only imagine how he is treating the crew. And you know, you, you were in the band.

00:07:40.580 Well, like you're not the original offspring drummer. I'm not the original offspring drummer,

00:07:44.340 but you know, I'm, I'm basically, uh, you know, my, I was a salaried position to be the drummer

00:07:51.840 in the band. Well, so when I pull up the offspring in, on like the Pandora, like streaming services,

00:08:01.360 you're still in the pictures. Yeah. That's, it's just so insane. I mean,

00:08:05.360 how long has it been since they, they kicked you out? Like a year or something?

00:08:08.960 Year and a half. Year and a half. You're still in their promotional material. Like maybe not like

00:08:12.820 the new stuff they're making now, but we are driving in, uh, in the car and we have like the

00:08:17.960 heads up display thing turned on the, I put on like nineties rock or something. And when,

00:08:23.320 when it played an offspring song from the nineties, the image was, it was a white picture of you guys

00:08:28.000 with you in it. And I'm like, you know, I said to my girlfriend, I was like, Hey, look, it's Pete.

00:08:31.520 I was like, that's so, it's so weird. Why don't they change that?

00:08:34.080 Well, I mean, honestly, that's an industry thing. Like there was plenty of times where we'd go on

00:08:37.980 tour and I'd been there for 10 years and you show up at the venue and there's a picture of

00:08:41.960 like the original four guys. It just happens. Like, but you can't control what some promoter

00:08:47.740 or somebody is going to grab and throw up. And I guess, but that is kind of weird. You think

00:08:52.060 like a band would be like, dude, that guy's not in the band anymore. But so, so anyway, uh,

00:08:57.180 so you get this call from the manager and this is, it really is crazy at this point in my mind,

00:09:03.420 how the vax mandates are basically gone. The mask mandates are basically gone. And it's almost like

00:09:08.420 people have forgotten just how fucked up it really was. Yeah. Like people kicking out of businesses,

00:09:15.200 bands kicking out after 14 years. So you didn't just decide one day you're like, I'm not getting that

00:09:20.760 vaccine. You actually talked to a doctor. Like that was the big deal is that you had a medical

00:09:25.100 risk or something. Yeah. Um, I have a history of Guillain-Barre syndrome, but I think a lot of people

00:09:33.160 take the, my medical exemption and they like to point at it and go, look, this guy had a legitimate

00:09:39.580 excuse to not get it and blah, blah, blah. But to me, it's like, I'm, I'm not looking to carve out

00:09:45.900 a space that for me here. It's, I, I don't feel there's any reason to, if you don't want to get

00:09:55.040 the vaccine, any reason is legitimate to me. It's not, not my medic, my medical exemption. All that

00:10:01.200 did was not accepted. And all that did was show that those don't matter. I think your story, well,

00:10:09.440 one thing I'll say for me, it was particularly impactful is because the offspring is basically

00:10:14.420 the first band I was ever introduced to in terms of like music. Obviously my mom had Zeppelin and

00:10:22.500 Grand Funk Railroad and, and classic rock stuff, Three Dog Night. So I, I, of course, CCR, we can name

00:10:28.220 all the, all the classic rock stuff. But when I was a kid, the first album I ever got was Americana.

00:10:33.760 Right. So. And then that's your own. You're like, oh, this is my music.

00:10:38.680 Yeah. It was like my, my friends introduced me to the kids aren't all right when that song came out.

00:10:42.860 And then obviously pretty fly for a white guy was big. And why don't you get a job?

00:10:47.780 And so I, I played drums initially since I was like seven years old, my friends needed a guitar

00:10:53.160 player. So I got a hand-me-down guitar from the families, my brothers. And the first song I ever

00:10:58.940 learned to play was the kids aren't all right. And I was like, I want to, my guitar teacher was trying

00:11:03.140 to get me to learn to play Mary had a little lamb. And I was just like, this does nothing for me.

00:11:07.760 I want to play this song. And he was like, okay, fine. I'll you, but you're not going to know how to

00:11:11.160 play it. And I'm like, if I'm going to go home and practice, it's going to be this song, right?

00:11:14.760 It's going to be something I care about. Yeah. So anyway, I hear this story and what was shocking

00:11:19.300 to me is, is for one that caught my attention. Like when I heard this, I'm like, I play the

00:11:24.720 offspring in the skate park all the time. Like still one of my favorite bands, but now ideologically

00:11:29.180 one of my least favorite bands. Yeah. Not only did you have for, so, so there's three factors.

00:11:34.860 Obviously I'm, you know, I like the offspring. One is people should be, should make their

00:11:39.920 own medical decisions. Yes. They shouldn't be forced to do it. The second was you actually

00:11:44.120 had a medical issue, which made it particularly egregious for them to try and force you to get

00:11:48.700 something which could hurt you. And then the third huge thing was you're, you're playing music with

00:11:53.740 them for 14 years and it seems like they just snapped their fingers and erased you from their

00:11:59.520 lives without a thought. It was crazy to me to hear a story because how do you, how do you do that

00:12:05.360 to someone? Even, even if you were like some virulent anti-vax conspiracy theorist as they try

00:12:10.920 to claim, I could, if, if one of my friends of 14 years came to me and started saying crazy stuff,

00:12:16.340 I'd be like, dude, you need to sit down. Like, we're going to, we're going to work you through

00:12:18.680 this, buddy. I wouldn't be like, get out of my house, you know?

00:12:22.260 Yeah. I mean, that, that was the worst part of it for me was that, cause we had, we had a lot of

00:12:28.360 good years together. Like he had a great time. Um, like traveled the world. Our kids grew up

00:12:35.040 together. Our wives were really close. And so the hardest part was just overnight that we were just

00:12:41.240 gone. Not, and not just hard for me, but for my whole family, like to explain to my kids, like,

00:12:46.840 I are not going to see these people anymore. And just to never hear from anybody again was,

00:12:51.120 you know, over, over one issue. Like it's, it's strange.

00:12:55.460 That's not even an issue anymore. Right. That's not an issue anymore. But at the time,

00:12:59.460 apparently it was the only issue. So what were they saying that venues wouldn't let you in or

00:13:03.440 something? Yeah. I mean, it was like, well, there's venues that aren't going to let you in.

00:13:07.200 And I'm like, well, what venues? Well, we don't know yet. Okay. Well, there's borders you can't

00:13:10.860 cross. Well, what borders? Well, we don't know yet. I'm like, well, that's my point. We don't know

00:13:14.340 yet. Like this seemed a little early to jump, but you know, through the fall of 2021 was just U.S.

00:13:22.020 dates, festivals and stuff. And there was no show that I could not have done on that tour.

00:13:28.980 Even just with my medical exemption, I had bands reaching out to me from the same festivals going,

00:13:36.400 we're not vaccinated. We're on the same show with your band. There's no reason like, this is stupid.

00:13:41.000 Why, why are you not here? This doesn't make any sense. But it's so weird. The whole,

00:13:45.100 I think the whole industry though, went into this mode of, of, you know, everyone wanted to get back

00:13:50.340 to work and I don't begrudge anybody needing to get back to work and make money. But the, the,

00:13:55.060 the fact that everybody was performing caution was, was alarming. Like it was just, you know,

00:14:01.340 I know big tours that when someone got sick in the crew, you know, big tours that were mandating

00:14:08.580 everyone have this crew member gets sick. They don't park them in a hotel for two weeks and

00:14:13.680 quarantine them. They put them on a plane knowing they tested positive and send them home.

00:14:18.000 Knowing that knowing on the plane, they could spread it, make it worse. They just didn't care.

00:14:22.720 Cause it's all about them. We're not paying for this. We're not, it wasn't,

00:14:25.120 it wasn't about protecting people. It was about protecting profits.

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00:15:56.040 When did you,

00:15:57.120 so you had,

00:15:58.620 you've been playing shows up until that point.

00:16:00.680 We hadn't done any shows since March of 2020.

00:16:03.920 Wow.

00:16:04.420 So it locks down and then you're basically just,

00:16:06.060 we were in South America when everything hit and we kind of had to get out.

00:16:09.800 Wow.

00:16:10.160 Where in South America?

00:16:11.040 We were in Chile.

00:16:12.420 So we,

00:16:12.660 that sounds crazy,

00:16:13.900 dude.

00:16:14.000 What happened?

00:16:14.560 So we had gone down,

00:16:15.920 we were in South America like the previous October and a show got canceled for,

00:16:21.260 I forget why.

00:16:22.040 But so we,

00:16:22.700 we went down to make up a show.

00:16:25.240 Oh,

00:16:25.600 there was like some political writing or something going.

00:16:27.900 Yeah.

00:16:28.080 It was like when we were there in October,

00:16:29.380 it was like the anniversary of some political thing.

00:16:31.660 And don't quote me on it,

00:16:32.900 but oh man,

00:16:33.720 it's chilly.

00:16:34.180 Yeah.

00:16:34.340 And they were like,

00:16:34.940 yeah,

00:16:35.100 maybe we're not going to do this one.

00:16:36.740 So we're like,

00:16:37.080 okay.

00:16:37.320 So we go,

00:16:39.880 so we went back in the,

00:16:41.460 in March to make up that show.

00:16:44.040 And then,

00:16:44.420 you know,

00:16:44.640 well,

00:16:44.800 if we're going all the way down there,

00:16:45.880 let's do a couple more shows.

00:16:47.880 So we get down there,

00:16:49.060 we make up,

00:16:49.780 or we're supposed to do an acoustic show.

00:16:52.880 You know,

00:16:53.520 COVID thing is just starting to hit.

00:16:55.200 This is around like 15th of March,

00:16:57.200 right?

00:16:57.780 Yeah.

00:16:58.380 And the acoustic show gets canceled and,

00:17:00.880 but we still have a regular rock show the next night.

00:17:04.220 So we're all there and just kind of like,

00:17:06.780 you know,

00:17:07.100 nobody knows what's going on.

00:17:08.260 It's sketchy.

00:17:09.420 And we're looking at the tour manager.

00:17:10.800 He's got flights on hold and like,

00:17:12.760 what are we going to do?

00:17:13.800 And then we go forward and we play the show.

00:17:15.600 And it was just,

00:17:16.440 it felt weird to play the show and look out.

00:17:19.020 And there's like 5,000 people sweating all over each other.

00:17:21.700 And I'm just like,

00:17:24.140 ah,

00:17:24.620 okay.

00:17:25.380 Like,

00:17:25.880 you know,

00:17:26.300 I don't have any say in anything.

00:17:28.160 What were you against it?

00:17:29.120 Were you at that point kind of like,

00:17:30.460 we know,

00:17:30.960 I,

00:17:31.220 I'm not going to say that I had any idea what was happening.

00:17:34.620 It was just,

00:17:35.740 I think every,

00:17:36.560 I can't,

00:17:37.360 I was speaking for myself.

00:17:38.400 It felt strange that we're playing the show,

00:17:40.440 but you know,

00:17:42.840 it was scary.

00:17:43.780 It was scary.

00:17:44.440 Yeah.

00:17:44.700 Like,

00:17:44.940 Oh my God,

00:17:46.560 what's going on?

00:17:47.120 So after the show,

00:17:48.320 like we were supposed to go to Brazil the next day.

00:17:50.900 And I guess finally,

00:17:52.660 while we were on stage,

00:17:54.580 the,

00:17:54.920 they came to an agreement,

00:17:56.100 the promoter was like,

00:17:56.820 yeah,

00:17:57.160 you know,

00:17:57.540 it's out.

00:17:58.120 Everybody had home,

00:17:58.840 but it sounds like if we had gone to Brazil,

00:18:02.240 we probably would have gotten stuck there for like a month.

00:18:05.300 That everything was like clamping down or locked down.

00:18:08.860 And so we got out,

00:18:10.520 you know,

00:18:10.740 got back home,

00:18:11.480 but yeah,

00:18:11.740 we hadn't played any shows.

00:18:13.140 I had friends that were in other countries too.

00:18:14.660 And I was like,

00:18:15.280 you need to come home now.

00:18:17.080 It's not even about the severity of the,

00:18:18.760 of the illness,

00:18:19.400 the disease at the time.

00:18:20.320 And we were all really freaked out about it.

00:18:22.000 Cause we had these videos of people in China collapsing in the street.

00:18:25.520 Yeah.

00:18:26.180 So no one knew what the hell was going on,

00:18:28.200 but I remember we had this little,

00:18:31.480 uh,

00:18:32.120 our original studio for Tim cast IRL was in the basement of my house in New

00:18:36.240 Jersey.

00:18:36.880 And then right across from it,

00:18:38.640 we had a TV and a couch and we wrapped the show and then turn the TV on.

00:18:42.960 Or it might've been before the show.

00:18:43.800 I'm not sure.

00:18:44.840 And there's Donald Trump saying,

00:18:47.180 we're going to be stopping travel,

00:18:49.760 you know,

00:18:50.500 I can't remember exactly what it was,

00:18:51.700 but it was like out of or into the country is being suspended for certain

00:18:54.540 people.

00:18:54.880 If you're American,

00:18:55.360 you can come in.

00:18:56.520 And then I think it was to Europe or something like that.

00:18:58.820 And at that moment,

00:18:59.680 it just really,

00:19:00.620 it felt really serious.

00:19:01.440 And then we had a conversation with everybody in the house.

00:19:04.640 Like we're in a peninsula like New Jersey,

00:19:07.140 there's a bridge to our left.

00:19:09.240 And if shit,

00:19:10.740 it's the fan we are on this peninsula.

00:19:14.200 So we need to figure out if we need to be somewhere else or do we bunker down

00:19:18.140 or do we buy supplies?

00:19:18.980 Like,

00:19:19.180 what does this mean?

00:19:20.760 And it just,

00:19:21.780 it's crazy to think that we're,

00:19:23.360 we're,

00:19:23.540 we're past this now and people,

00:19:25.900 I do feel like most people have forgotten what that,

00:19:29.300 what March was like and that feeling of what was going on.

00:19:31.900 I couldn't imagine what it would be like being on tour out of the country.

00:19:35.760 Just like,

00:19:36.480 I guess we're going to keep doing our thing.

00:19:38.220 And then eventually they're like,

00:19:39.000 you need to go home.

00:19:40.220 Yeah.

00:19:40.300 So were you,

00:19:41.100 were you in Brazil?

00:19:42.320 No,

00:19:42.780 we,

00:19:42.980 we left from Chile.

00:19:44.040 Oh,

00:19:44.320 okay.

00:19:44.440 We went home.

00:19:44.960 So when,

00:19:45.720 where,

00:19:45.960 like California I'd imagine.

00:19:48.720 Yeah.

00:19:49.120 I'm,

00:19:49.380 I think I flew through Texas back to Tennessee.

00:19:51.920 That was usually either Texas or Florida.

00:19:56.080 Um,

00:19:57.300 yeah.

00:19:57.620 So it was,

00:19:58.280 it was weird.

00:19:58.840 But even on our,

00:19:59.600 our way down there,

00:20:00.460 my wife's like,

00:20:01.560 you guys really going right now?

00:20:04.160 I'm like,

00:20:04.860 I don't have a say.

00:20:06.640 Well,

00:20:06.840 before you flew to South America.

00:20:08.580 Yeah.

00:20:08.880 Like it was already kind of bubbling up.

00:20:10.760 Right.

00:20:10.880 What's going on.

00:20:12.080 I,

00:20:12.340 I,

00:20:12.860 I did a,

00:20:13.380 uh,

00:20:13.600 I covered the story in January of 2020 about,

00:20:16.600 you know,

00:20:17.360 this strange illness.

00:20:18.320 And there's like a guy in a Chinese guy in a hazmat suit.

00:20:20.800 YouTube was threatening to ban people for talking about it.

00:20:23.460 Right.

00:20:23.640 It was weird.

00:20:25.140 Yeah.

00:20:25.580 Every video about it got demonetized and I'm like,

00:20:28.120 what is this?

00:20:28.820 What's going on?

00:20:29.440 And then all of a sudden they hit me up like March and they were like,

00:20:32.400 no,

00:20:32.520 we're bringing all your monetization back and you can,

00:20:34.480 you're allowed to talk about it now.

00:20:35.940 Yeah.

00:20:36.320 I mean,

00:20:36.540 that's the thing.

00:20:37.060 It's like,

00:20:37.300 whenever there's something you're all of a sudden not allowed to talk

00:20:40.300 about,

00:20:40.620 that just kind of makes my ears prick up of like,

00:20:42.840 Oh really?

00:20:43.880 I know.

00:20:44.160 There's a person that you're not allowed to listen to.

00:20:46.040 It's like,

00:20:46.420 Oh what now?

00:20:47.500 So what was it like after,

00:20:48.860 after this?

00:20:49.320 I mean,

00:20:50.220 you're,

00:20:50.780 I imagine you guys are a big touring band.

00:20:52.720 That's what you do.

00:20:53.380 Yeah.

00:20:53.600 I mean,

00:20:53.800 that's,

00:20:54.140 that's how you make your money is touring,

00:20:55.760 you know,

00:20:56.000 but now you're not,

00:20:57.040 now you're not.

00:20:57.780 So what,

00:20:58.140 what,

00:20:58.360 what happens then?

00:20:59.100 Like the lockdown happens,

00:21:00.300 you're back in the U S yeah.

00:21:02.120 You guys just do nothing or what?

00:21:03.440 Yeah.

00:21:03.600 I mean,

00:21:03.820 everybody was just home kind of sorting out,

00:21:07.020 you know,

00:21:08.260 are we going to just wait and see,

00:21:11.740 right?

00:21:12.300 We were supposed to go to Australia in April that got canceled.

00:21:15.880 And then,

00:21:16.560 you know,

00:21:16.740 we always go to Europe in the summer.

00:21:18.120 We had shows in probably end of May,

00:21:20.600 early June,

00:21:21.500 that's coming up.

00:21:22.640 And we're like,

00:21:23.140 wow,

00:21:24.580 it can't,

00:21:25.020 can't go on that long.

00:21:25.960 Right.

00:21:26.360 You know,

00:21:26.740 it's crazy.

00:21:27.520 We're going to shut everything down for two weeks or for one month.

00:21:30.240 And then it was like,

00:21:31.280 no,

00:21:31.540 Europe's out.

00:21:32.120 And it's like,

00:21:32.580 Oh,

00:21:32.900 okay.

00:21:34.320 So now,

00:21:34.920 now that's happening.

00:21:36.040 So this was done.

00:21:36.980 And for us,

00:21:37.980 our revenue tanked in March and then slowly started to climb back up.

00:21:42.680 And that was a scary thing.

00:21:43.600 I was like,

00:21:44.000 Oh wow.

00:21:45.000 You know,

00:21:45.420 we're,

00:21:45.780 we're,

00:21:46.000 we do this show,

00:21:46.880 we do this YouTube stuff and we were making money.

00:21:48.440 Then all of a sudden we weren't for us.

00:21:50.660 We were fortunate enough that the podcasting space,

00:21:52.800 everybody's locked in their houses and they got nothing else to do.

00:21:55.020 So they're listening to shows like this.

00:21:57.160 So,

00:21:57.620 so let me ask you,

00:21:58.260 man,

00:21:58.440 you're,

00:21:58.800 you're wearing a black hoodie and you've got,

00:22:01.480 I guess,

00:22:01.680 what is that like plaid or what would you call it?

00:22:03.640 Plaid pants?

00:22:04.340 Yeah.

00:22:04.720 Plaid.

00:22:05.320 You got a Mohawk,

00:22:06.300 I guess.

00:22:06.680 Is that,

00:22:07.100 is that,

00:22:07.380 or is that a faux hawk?

00:22:08.300 Which,

00:22:08.420 what does that call?

00:22:08.740 I don't know.

00:22:09.180 It doesn't go all the way down the back.

00:22:10.520 Is it,

00:22:10.800 it's more of a peaky blinder maybe?

00:22:12.520 Peaky blinder?

00:22:12.840 Sure.

00:22:13.140 So you're like a punk rock guy.

00:22:14.480 I mean,

00:22:15.880 I,

00:22:16.400 by default.

00:22:18.300 Did you,

00:22:19.020 like how did,

00:22:20.640 I'm,

00:22:21.100 I'm,

00:22:21.440 I'm asking these questions because I wanted to get into the,

00:22:24.080 how anti-punk rock everything's become,

00:22:25.940 but I'm curious,

00:22:26.740 just the context of like,

00:22:28.720 what's your,

00:22:29.180 what's your background growing up?

00:22:30.500 You've played in a bunch of other bands.

00:22:32.360 How did you get into punk?

00:22:34.000 I fell into punk rock.

00:22:35.360 I,

00:22:35.580 I grew up in upstate New York,

00:22:37.200 about an hour south of Rochester and a little tiny town called Arkport.

00:22:41.340 And there's about 1200 people there.

00:22:43.580 You know,

00:22:43.840 23 kids in my high school graduating class.

00:22:47.360 And so where I grew up,

00:22:49.540 you know,

00:22:50.080 you had whatever you could get on the radio.

00:22:52.880 And,

00:22:53.460 you know,

00:22:54.300 if you were lucky,

00:22:55.440 you could get a station from Rochester that was playing more rock music.

00:22:58.520 But so I grew up on like metal,

00:22:59.920 like eighties,

00:23:00.460 eighties rock,

00:23:01.200 eighties metal.

00:23:01.880 It's cool though.

00:23:02.340 Anything that,

00:23:02.800 yeah.

00:23:03.020 I mean,

00:23:03.200 that was my thing.

00:23:04.220 I,

00:23:04.400 I loved that.

00:23:05.420 And,

00:23:05.860 you know,

00:23:06.180 I had a drum set.

00:23:07.380 My dad had got me a drum set when I was in sixth grade and I didn't do much with it.

00:23:13.560 You know,

00:23:13.860 I didn't,

00:23:14.280 I didn't think a lot of like,

00:23:15.700 Oh,

00:23:15.940 you can,

00:23:16.860 you can make a career of this.

00:23:18.320 You know,

00:23:18.560 you didn't think of that stuff in that town.

00:23:20.780 But,

00:23:21.220 um,

00:23:21.760 when I was in high school,

00:23:24.000 um,

00:23:24.700 I,

00:23:25.040 you know,

00:23:25.200 I had a band because some guy came up to me in the hallway at school one day and was like,

00:23:29.160 Oh,

00:23:30.020 you got a drum set.

00:23:31.260 Um,

00:23:31.660 you know,

00:23:32.080 there's a new kid that moved to town.

00:23:33.300 He plays guitar.

00:23:33.840 We're going to form a band.

00:23:34.900 We're coming to your house.

00:23:35.700 Cause you're the only,

00:23:36.400 the only person with a drum set in town.

00:23:38.060 So it was like,

00:23:38.520 Oh,

00:23:38.680 okay.

00:23:39.240 There you go.

00:23:40.140 Um,

00:23:40.540 so we started playing and,

00:23:42.160 you know,

00:23:42.640 as pretty terrible and just trying to figure it out and a couple of beats together.

00:23:47.900 How old were you at the time?

00:23:49.680 Uh,

00:23:49.880 this was probably 14,

00:23:51.500 15.

00:23:52.880 And,

00:23:53.180 uh,

00:23:53.460 how old are you now?

00:23:54.220 Uh,

00:23:54.460 49.

00:23:55.100 Oh,

00:23:55.260 okay.

00:23:55.680 Yeah.

00:23:56.440 And so,

00:23:57.780 um,

00:23:58.240 when I was 16,

00:23:59.420 a friend of mine dragged me out to,

00:24:02.000 cause there was like my tiny town.

00:24:03.320 And then there was the town next,

00:24:04.760 next to us with about 10,000 people in it.

00:24:07.040 And that's where my dad was a music teacher.

00:24:09.200 And so,

00:24:10.000 um,

00:24:10.520 there was this band from that high school that was playing and my friend dragged me out.

00:24:14.540 And the,

00:24:15.120 and I'm like,

00:24:15.640 yeah,

00:24:15.780 okay,

00:24:15.960 I'll go.

00:24:17.040 And here's this drummer that was playing exactly like everybody that I saw on TV or MTV and like all the stuff that I was like,

00:24:24.940 Oh,

00:24:25.040 I couldn't do that.

00:24:25.700 I like,

00:24:26.120 you know,

00:24:26.380 I had a block and I'm looking at this guy just shredding and I'm like,

00:24:31.840 Oh,

00:24:32.560 like light switch went off.

00:24:33.700 I'm like,

00:24:33.960 well,

00:24:34.040 if he can do that,

00:24:35.240 I can do that.

00:24:35.940 And I go home and I said to my dad,

00:24:38.200 I'm like,

00:24:38.840 you have a drummer in your band named Mick Palmisano.

00:24:43.280 And he's like,

00:24:43.780 Oh yeah,

00:24:44.040 he's a really good drummer.

00:24:44.980 I'm like,

00:24:46.060 why have you never mentioned this person to me?

00:24:48.460 And my dad,

00:24:49.240 bless his heart.

00:24:49.700 He goes,

00:24:49.980 well,

00:24:50.180 you've never been very serious about it.

00:24:51.700 And he's like,

00:24:52.140 he's a really serious drummer.

00:24:53.240 So I meet Mick and long story short,

00:24:56.260 like I like the next day I just start practicing.

00:24:58.620 Like,

00:24:59.020 I'm like,

00:24:59.460 he,

00:24:59.660 he can do it.

00:25:00.160 I can do it.

00:25:00.680 I'm working on everything and,

00:25:01.960 you know,

00:25:02.700 improving by leaps and bounds and get to be friends with him.

00:25:06.300 And he's moving to LA to go to music school.

00:25:09.580 And so,

00:25:10.920 and I'm like,

00:25:11.400 I want to go to LA and go to music school.

00:25:13.800 So a year later I moved out there with him and,

00:25:16.420 you know,

00:25:17.100 went to,

00:25:17.860 you know,

00:25:18.100 yeah,

00:25:18.380 I went from teeny tiny town to Hollywood,

00:25:21.480 sight unseen,

00:25:22.200 had never been out there.

00:25:23.480 We drove out together and we get to LA and I'm just like terrified.

00:25:29.360 How did you end up playing?

00:25:31.120 I mean,

00:25:31.740 you're,

00:25:32.580 I'm watching this video the other night,

00:25:36.000 Killboy Powerhead.

00:25:37.060 And there's gotta be like,

00:25:38.560 I don't know.

00:25:39.080 It's like 30,

00:25:39.740 40,000 people.

00:25:40.800 I was just massive.

00:25:42.460 Yeah.

00:25:42.820 Like how did,

00:25:44.060 how do you make,

00:25:44.620 you just show up in Hollywood and then how,

00:25:46.240 how did you get to the,

00:25:47.220 from there to there?

00:25:47.820 You know what I mean?

00:25:48.520 I mean,

00:25:49.060 that my buddy kept me alive.

00:25:51.120 Like I got there,

00:25:52.060 had no idea what I was doing.

00:25:53.220 Like we'd go to the grocery store,

00:25:54.580 he'd put something in his cart.

00:25:55.760 I would put the same thing in my cart.

00:25:57.900 And he's finally whatever you eat.

00:25:59.800 Yeah.

00:26:00.040 And he looks at me,

00:26:00.680 he's like,

00:26:01.200 okay.

00:26:01.540 Cause he was a year older than me and he'd already been there.

00:26:03.600 And he's like,

00:26:04.180 all right,

00:26:05.220 you,

00:26:05.780 I get it.

00:26:06.300 I get it.

00:26:06.720 And like took me under his wing,

00:26:07.940 like showed me how to survive basically and got me through school.

00:26:11.360 And,

00:26:11.740 and so I,

00:26:14.600 you know,

00:26:14.800 I go through music school and I get out of there and then I start,

00:26:18.140 you know,

00:26:18.480 bussing tables and,

00:26:20.040 you know,

00:26:21.100 trying to play in bands.

00:26:22.220 I was in a few different bands and I was roommates with Ray Luzier,

00:26:26.620 who's the drummer for Korn now.

00:26:28.300 Oh wow.

00:26:28.720 And,

00:26:28.920 but he was one of my teachers at school.

00:26:31.100 And so we got to be buddies and he's like,

00:26:34.480 Hey,

00:26:34.540 I need a roommate when I graduated.

00:26:35.860 And I was like,

00:26:36.340 okay,

00:26:36.560 great.

00:26:36.880 So move in with him and he was real busy drummer.

00:26:39.820 So he was kicking me down stuff that he didn't have time for or didn't work in his schedule.

00:26:44.180 So I started playing with a few groups that way.

00:26:47.520 And,

00:26:47.980 um,

00:26:48.820 you know,

00:26:49.140 did that for a few years and,

00:26:51.760 uh,

00:26:51.940 I'm working at this rehearsal studio and the band face to face comes in and the punk rock band.

00:26:57.160 Right.

00:26:57.500 And I don't know anything about punk rock and they're,

00:26:59.540 they're auditioning drummers.

00:27:00.540 And I'm just like,

00:27:01.220 Oh,

00:27:01.400 whatever.

00:27:01.660 It's not my thing.

00:27:03.160 And they get a guy and go on tour.

00:27:06.340 And a friend of mine ended up tour managing them on the tour.

00:27:09.380 And he calls me up a few days on the tour.

00:27:10.720 And he's like,

00:27:11.020 what,

00:27:11.380 what's the matter with you?

00:27:12.920 And I was like,

00:27:13.440 what are you talking about?

00:27:14.100 He's like,

00:27:14.400 this band was just auditioning drummers under your nose and you didn't play with them.

00:27:18.700 He's like,

00:27:19.500 you know,

00:27:20.000 you're an idiot.

00:27:20.700 I'm like,

00:27:21.000 well,

00:27:21.100 I don't know punk rock.

00:27:22.060 And he goes,

00:27:22.460 well,

00:27:23.100 he's like,

00:27:23.540 yeah,

00:27:23.660 I know they're punk rock,

00:27:24.420 but they're,

00:27:25.040 they're looking for a rock drummer.

00:27:26.260 They want to make a different record.

00:27:27.860 Um,

00:27:28.100 they just borrowed this guy to do this tour.

00:27:29.900 When they get off the road,

00:27:30.800 they're auditioning more people.

00:27:31.800 I'm getting,

00:27:32.220 putting you on the list.

00:27:33.000 And I was like,

00:27:33.640 okay.

00:27:34.380 So they come back in,

00:27:35.720 uh,

00:27:36.640 to the studio and I don't have any money.

00:27:38.700 So I just went into there.

00:27:39.840 I got keys to everybody's room.

00:27:40.920 I go in,

00:27:41.300 I stole their live record out of their merch box and learn the whole album.

00:27:44.200 Right.

00:27:45.020 That's one way to do it.

00:27:45.940 Yeah.

00:27:46.060 I'm like,

00:27:46.420 Oh,

00:27:46.740 all right,

00:27:47.040 let me figure it out.

00:27:47.760 So I,

00:27:48.400 you know,

00:27:48.560 you sit there listening to all these drummers audition all week and,

00:27:52.580 you know,

00:27:52.800 and everybody's playing the same two songs and you're like,

00:27:55.560 okay,

00:27:55.860 that guy's pretty good.

00:27:56.780 Oh,

00:27:56.840 you can do the fast stuff.

00:27:57.780 Oh,

00:27:57.980 that's,

00:27:58.420 that's not,

00:27:58.980 you know,

00:27:59.560 the slower stuff.

00:28:00.200 He's not doing too well.

00:28:01.900 And then they get down to me.

00:28:03.380 And so I,

00:28:03.860 I walk in and I can see it on their faces.

00:28:05.640 They're like,

00:28:06.980 holy shit,

00:28:07.700 we've gone through all these people.

00:28:09.040 And now the kid that parks the cars is coming in.

00:28:10.880 And we sat down and I'm like,

00:28:13.580 Hey,

00:28:13.660 you guys have been playing these same two songs all week.

00:28:15.760 Do you want to do something else?

00:28:17.720 And they're like,

00:28:18.520 yeah.

00:28:18.900 Like,

00:28:19.240 what do you know?

00:28:19.740 And I was like,

00:28:20.220 I know your live record.

00:28:21.260 We can play anything off of that.

00:28:22.520 And so they bust into a song,

00:28:24.980 hop right in,

00:28:25.780 play through that,

00:28:26.440 bust into another song,

00:28:28.020 play through that.

00:28:28.720 And then the,

00:28:29.440 we stop and the guitar player looks at me and he's like angry.

00:28:33.120 I'm like,

00:28:33.640 Oh shit.

00:28:34.060 Like I must be doing terrible.

00:28:35.660 And he's like,

00:28:36.120 what the hell's wrong with you?

00:28:38.100 You made us sit here all week,

00:28:39.560 auditioning all these people.

00:28:40.620 You knew you were going to come in here and do this.

00:28:43.320 Like what the hell?

00:28:45.100 And it must've been so refreshing for this band to just kick into a song and

00:28:50.640 you go right into it.

00:28:51.640 And then I got to think about it.

00:28:52.800 Yeah.

00:28:53.120 And it was a good fit,

00:28:54.260 like personally.

00:28:55.240 And like,

00:28:55.600 I still love those guys.

00:28:56.720 I went and played with them last year.

00:28:57.920 It was awesome.

00:28:58.620 Their drummer had a appendicitis out of nowhere.

00:29:01.220 And they were like,

00:29:02.880 we've got three shows with Jawbreaker coming up.

00:29:07.020 We can't rehearse.

00:29:08.540 We,

00:29:08.700 you know,

00:29:08.840 and I hadn't played with them in like 18 years.

00:29:11.000 Wow.

00:29:11.640 Can you just come in and,

00:29:13.380 you know,

00:29:13.840 learn a couple of our new songs.

00:29:15.180 We'll play the old songs.

00:29:16.040 And I was like,

00:29:16.420 yeah,

00:29:16.560 that'll be fun.

00:29:17.380 So,

00:29:17.560 so how old are you when you,

00:29:19.200 when this happens?

00:29:20.360 With face to face,

00:29:21.380 I was 20,

00:29:22.720 23.

00:29:23.940 So you're 23.

00:29:24.640 I mean,

00:29:24.740 you're not even into punk rock.

00:29:25.960 No,

00:29:26.780 no,

00:29:27.000 I didn't.

00:29:27.260 But when I listened to their record,

00:29:28.700 I was like,

00:29:29.600 oh,

00:29:29.880 okay.

00:29:30.060 This is like,

00:29:31.240 it's kind of like heavy metal,

00:29:33.000 but you play it with one foot instead of two.

00:29:35.120 Like,

00:29:35.360 like I get it.

00:29:36.120 Okay.

00:29:36.280 Yeah,

00:29:36.460 there you go.

00:29:36.840 And that was one of the things they liked was cause I,

00:29:39.180 I'm a tiny person,

00:29:40.280 but I hit really heavy.

00:29:42.160 And so for me,

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00:30:48.220 I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

00:30:55.160 Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

00:30:58.720 Weird.

00:30:59.120 I don't remember saying that part.

00:31:01.440 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance.

00:31:04.600 That's really big on care.

00:31:07.240 Did I mention that we care?

00:31:11.100 Even playing fast stuff,

00:31:12.480 I can get that crack on the snare drum and that that's what they like.

00:31:15.920 They're like,

00:31:16.220 okay,

00:31:16.460 usually when we get someone playing fast,

00:31:19.020 you know,

00:31:19.280 the faster the song,

00:31:20.200 the quieter the snare drum gets.

00:31:21.540 And they're like,

00:31:21.920 yours doesn't stop.

00:31:22.860 I'm like,

00:31:23.120 yeah,

00:31:23.260 it's just,

00:31:23.720 everything's got to be about that.

00:31:25.280 How long did you play with face to face?

00:31:27.380 I was with them from 98 to,

00:31:31.200 we broke up the band in 2004.

00:31:34.940 And then the last couple of years that I was playing with face to face,

00:31:37.900 I had also joined a band called saves the day.

00:31:40.040 And so I was doing both bands at the same time,

00:31:42.940 which was just,

00:31:44.040 it was a lot.

00:31:44.800 It was like,

00:31:45.480 I never listened to face to face.

00:31:47.580 My friends all listened to save the,

00:31:48.920 saves the day.

00:31:49.720 And when your story dropped,

00:31:51.980 I had people being like,

00:31:53.580 dude,

00:31:53.780 that's the guy from face to face.

00:31:55.240 Holy crap.

00:31:56.040 What the,

00:31:57.020 for me,

00:31:57.460 it was like the offspring.

00:31:58.320 I'm like,

00:31:58.920 man,

00:31:59.620 I go skating in the,

00:32:00.940 in,

00:32:01.200 in,

00:32:01.500 you know,

00:32:01.660 when I'm out skating outside,

00:32:03.380 I,

00:32:03.860 one of the songs on rotation was the meaning of life.

00:32:06.600 It's like,

00:32:07.160 man,

00:32:08.420 it's man,

00:32:08.820 there's so much of that old offspring stuff that I just love so much.

00:32:12.300 Breaks my heart to hear what happened.

00:32:14.180 But,

00:32:14.620 well,

00:32:14.960 let's,

00:32:15.100 let's move forward.

00:32:15.780 How do you end up with the offspring?

00:32:18.580 So in 2007,

00:32:21.980 I ended up leaving saves the day.

00:32:23.920 Like I love that band.

00:32:25.600 And,

00:32:26.140 you know,

00:32:26.860 we,

00:32:27.260 you know,

00:32:28.320 we had put out a record that their fans really hated and then kind of went back and made a record that I was really proud of that I thought was really good.

00:32:36.380 Trying to kind of get back in good form with the fans and stuff and it was really hard and, and, uh, you know, sometimes in bands there's a lot of drama and, and eventually the drama there outweighed my love for the music to the point where I left.

00:32:54.860 And I didn't, and I didn't, I was so bummed out and dejected about music I was like, I told my wife, I'm like, I don't want to play music anymore.

00:33:01.480 I'm done with this.

00:33:02.420 So I'm going to go work at Costco and go be a paramedic.

00:33:05.960 I'm going to go do anything else.

00:33:07.080 And she's like, yeah, okay, sure.

00:33:08.600 Why don't you just take a break for a minute?

00:33:10.100 You know, and so, um, kind of hung out for a couple of months and got called for, um, this bigger metal band was looking for a drummer and I was like, oh, I'll do that.

00:33:21.240 I want to play some metal.

00:33:22.020 I'm tired of punk rock.

00:33:22.900 I don't, I don't want to do this anymore.

00:33:24.680 And then my buddy, uh, my best friend called me up and he was a guitar tech to the stars.

00:33:29.620 And he's like, Hey, I know that band.

00:33:32.380 You're not joining that band.

00:33:33.580 Like, absolutely not.

00:33:35.220 Like you, you think you had drama and saves the day.

00:33:38.140 Like, do not do that.

00:33:39.820 And he's like, we'll find you something better.

00:33:41.160 I'm like, yeah, okay, cool.

00:33:41.980 And at the same time I get a call about go audition for the offspring.

00:33:45.880 And I'm like, I don't want to play punk rock.

00:33:47.980 I don't want to do it.

00:33:48.560 So I just ignored it.

00:33:50.120 And then come back around about a month later from somebody else.

00:33:53.220 Like, Hey, offspring's looking for a drummer.

00:33:54.740 I'm going to put your name in.

00:33:55.460 I'm like, I don't want to do that.

00:33:57.060 I'm not doing punk rock.

00:33:58.700 Comes back around a third time.

00:34:00.400 And my wife is finally like, Hey, why don't you just go and meet them?

00:34:06.800 And she's like, I know you're still sore about punk rock and whatever, but why don't you go

00:34:12.460 and get the job and then decide if you want it or not?

00:34:15.720 And I was like, all right, that's pretty good advice.

00:34:18.040 Cause my wife's pretty smart.

00:34:19.280 And so I go down and I meet with them and it, it made sense.

00:34:23.060 And so I go back down for, uh, I think I had four auditions with them and I'm living up north,

00:34:28.720 Northern California in Chico where my wife is from.

00:34:31.720 And, uh, so I'm flying down every time they want another audition.

00:34:35.320 And so I go down and play two songs.

00:34:37.760 Seems good.

00:34:38.420 They call, come back next week, play these other four songs.

00:34:41.140 Okay.

00:34:41.940 And then every time I'm coming back down, I'm seeing like all these other drummers.

00:34:45.780 And some people are on the first two songs.

00:34:47.360 Some people are on four songs like they are leaving no stone unturned, looking for people.

00:34:51.640 And I get in there and this one guy, I'm like, I'm sitting in the hallway and listening and I'm

00:34:56.360 like, oh wow, this guy is shredding.

00:34:58.400 This is great.

00:34:59.020 And I'm like, sounds familiar, but I don't know.

00:35:01.300 And then they get to the fast song and I was like, oh, not a punk rock guy.

00:35:05.240 Not, not his thing, but still really good.

00:35:07.720 And the door opens and it's my old roommate, Ray Luzier, who walks out and he's sweating.

00:35:12.740 He looks at me, he goes, oh, of course you're here.

00:35:15.720 He's like, oh, this isn't my thing, whatever.

00:35:17.700 And then at the same time, the Korn gig was, was floating around and I wanted the Korn gig.

00:35:23.020 Oh wow.

00:35:23.700 But I couldn't, I couldn't.

00:35:24.600 I like Korn too.

00:35:24.940 That'd be great.

00:35:25.440 Yeah.

00:35:25.640 I was like, I want to play some metal.

00:35:27.000 Like that's going to be awesome.

00:35:28.760 So, you know, at the same time I end up with the Offspring gig, which made sense for me.

00:35:33.720 He ends up with the Korn gig, which was perfect for him.

00:35:36.180 And so, but it was really funny.

00:35:37.820 Like that's, that's how you bump into people.

00:35:40.600 So we get through this portion of, you know, how you make it to this point and punk rock

00:35:44.440 and all that stuff.

00:35:44.920 And the reason I wanted to fill in that context is the self-titled album from the Offspring

00:35:50.740 has a song called Kill the President.

00:35:51.980 And they got rid of it, I think in like 99, when they reissued the album, because, well,

00:35:59.040 when you're, when you're more, I don't know, underground punk rock, you do songs like that.

00:36:05.800 And then when you're mainstream, double platinum, triple platinum or whatever, maybe you don't

00:36:11.160 say Kill the President.

00:36:12.380 You know what I mean?

00:36:13.020 Right.

00:36:13.560 So it was like, it was very obvious to me, even as a kid, you know, I get introduced to

00:36:19.880 Americana, the first album from the, my first album from them, which then instantly I buy

00:36:25.000 Ixnay, which then instantly I buy Ignition.

00:36:27.540 And then I never bought the self-titled.

00:36:28.900 My friends had that one.

00:36:30.440 And then we're like listening to this being like, oh, these are the roots of this, of

00:36:33.980 this band that we're all big fans of.

00:36:35.220 And I'm like, my friends, like, they got rid of the song.

00:36:38.560 You can't get it anymore.

00:36:39.420 And even now it's like hard to find.

00:36:41.360 You have to find like old YouTube clips.

00:36:43.520 Like a YouTube rip or something.

00:36:44.760 Like the song's there.

00:36:45.780 It's just crazy to me that you get this guy.

00:36:48.760 Who goes from writing a song called Kill the President, which like, I'm going to get in

00:36:54.400 trouble for even saying the name of that song on YouTube.

00:36:57.740 And in the Americana album, you've got the kids aren't all right, which is like a song

00:37:04.500 lamenting the end of tradition, basically.

00:37:07.160 And you get, why don't you get a job?

00:37:09.880 And so now looking, I talked about this before the mandate stuff, before the Vax mandates.

00:37:15.720 I'm like, this is like a conservative punk rock band almost.

00:37:18.760 You know, like, why don't you get a job?

00:37:20.420 What is, what is the punk in this band?

00:37:22.180 They're telling you to go work hard.

00:37:23.660 And I'm like, I, I dig it.

00:37:25.320 You know what I mean?

00:37:26.060 And the kids aren't all right saying like kids are doing drugs and hooking up.

00:37:29.060 What's good.

00:37:29.360 What the hell's going on?

00:37:30.540 And that was what I, that was the message I got from a punk rock band when I was like

00:37:35.220 12 or 13 years old.

00:37:36.560 What's crazy to me is you mentioned that when you're doing these shows, there were other

00:37:45.260 people playing who weren't vaccinated, but they, they, they fire you.

00:37:48.880 The, the punk band fires you.

00:37:51.020 And it feels like that was the ultimate stake in the heart of like, this is not a punk rock

00:37:55.240 band.

00:37:55.740 They're not standing up for principles.

00:37:57.520 They don't, I don't think they believe in anything.

00:37:59.960 Not that I thought a mainstream successful, successful pop punk band was like the most

00:38:05.660 political and like ideologically driven, but man, that was really like getting, I don't

00:38:12.460 know, like my childhood was smacked in the face because I at least thought the message

00:38:18.160 of why don't you get a job was like, yeah, man, don't leech off other people.

00:38:22.100 You don't got to, that wasn't necessarily a pro establishment thing.

00:38:24.720 The kids aren't all right.

00:38:25.980 That was, that was big.

00:38:27.060 And it was like, work hard, be good, be a good person.

00:38:30.700 But now it just feels like the, the ethos behind the band.

00:38:35.180 When I heard this story was fuck it all.

00:38:38.120 I want to get paid.

00:38:39.620 Well, it, yeah, but I, I, I don't want to unfairly single them out as like the poster

00:38:47.480 children for what happened.

00:38:48.820 Like they drew the short straw of that.

00:38:50.840 I was willing to say something.

00:38:52.100 This was happening everywhere.

00:38:54.460 That's, it's not special.

00:38:56.220 The lockdowns and stuff.

00:38:57.500 No, what, leaning on people for the vaccine.

00:39:00.180 Like the industry was mandating that, you know, everyone from the promoters down, you

00:39:05.480 know, promoters put pressure on the tour managers, put pressure on the, on the bands, put pressure

00:39:08.900 on the crew.

00:39:09.340 Like everybody had to do like, well, like it was saying, like performing caution, but we're,

00:39:14.620 we're protecting profits.

00:39:15.960 We're not protecting people.

00:39:17.800 Every band was doing this, but a lot of other people in my position just kind of like, you

00:39:23.940 know, left or, or were, were replaced and didn't say anything.

00:39:28.320 Cause it's, you know, there's loss of, I don't want to lose other opportunities.

00:39:33.500 I'll just, I'll, I'll just leave quietly.

00:39:35.640 Right.

00:39:36.180 But for me, we, when we made our statement, it was three, threefold was number one, I

00:39:44.160 didn't want to have to have the same conversation individually with all my friends and family

00:39:49.040 and people like, you know, they're about to go on tour.

00:39:50.900 Or I'm getting hit up for tickets to these shows that I know I'm not going to be at.

00:39:55.240 And so I'm like, well, I'd only want to have this conversation once, but number two, I, it

00:40:01.640 felt like somebody needed to say something about what was happening.

00:40:04.820 Cause if I'm getting squeezed here, then everyone's getting squeezed here and it's, you know, it's

00:40:10.840 not a personal thing.

00:40:11.940 It's a business thing.

00:40:12.940 Like everybody wants to make their money.

00:40:14.540 Right.

00:40:15.040 Yep.

00:40:15.300 But so I'm like, well, if I don't say something who's, someone's got to start the conversation

00:40:20.860 and I also wanted anybody else who was in my position to know that they weren't the

00:40:24.660 only ones going through that.

00:40:25.880 Like, how do you find your people if nobody puts themselves out there like, oh man, this

00:40:31.640 happened to me.

00:40:32.220 And as soon as we did, we get inundated my Instagram with messages from people from everywhere

00:40:37.760 and all walks of life, lots of musicians, actors and stuff, but nurses, doctors, people

00:40:42.840 from everywhere going, I'm in the same position, you know, I.

00:40:45.980 Were they, were they unwilling to speak up?

00:40:48.680 Yeah.

00:40:49.080 I mean, I don't, I don't begrudge anybody for not speaking up.

00:40:52.460 Like I, I don't recommend it.

00:40:54.140 Like it's, it's not for the faint of heart.

00:40:56.260 Like it, you know, people like, what is it, what does it cost you?

00:40:59.440 It costs you everything.

00:41:00.840 Yeah.

00:41:01.000 But, but I understand.

00:41:03.120 And I, yeah, I, you know, and everybody says, oh, why didn't you get a fake card and

00:41:06.800 stuff?

00:41:07.020 I know plenty of people working on fake cards and I, I, I'm twofold on that issue as well.

00:41:12.720 I don't have a problem with someone doing what it, we're all in an impossible situation

00:41:18.980 and whatever anybody needs to do to take care of themselves and their family, they should

00:41:22.740 do it.

00:41:23.640 But would it be nicer if more people spoke up?

00:41:27.060 Sure.

00:41:27.780 It, it certainly would help.

00:41:29.340 But both, both things can be true for me.

00:41:31.540 Well, this is what bums me out is I'm a little kid.

00:41:36.620 I get this album, the Americana and the tab book.

00:41:41.880 I get this, uh, Squire Fender guitar and I, I start learning about Dexter Holland, lead

00:41:48.740 singer, founder, I guess, uh, OG, him and noodles.

00:41:52.360 And he's, he's working on a degree in microbiology.

00:41:55.460 Like, wow, this dude's sticking it to the man, succeeding in the industry, like in this

00:42:03.660 space, he's criticized and also working on a degree.

00:42:08.000 I'm like, as a little kid, I was like, that's so cool.

00:42:11.680 He's like, he's a cool guy.

00:42:13.340 I don't want to say like it was a role model or anything like that.

00:42:15.680 Cause I didn't really have anybody that I looked up to and what, and had posters of.

00:42:19.880 It was just like, that's really cool.

00:42:22.600 You know, we need leaders.

00:42:25.300 I understand what you're saying.

00:42:26.680 A nurse, a drummer, somebody who is trying to get by and protect their family and live

00:42:33.740 their life is in a difficult position.

00:42:35.100 What can they do?

00:42:36.540 If they speak up, what's the impact they can have?

00:42:39.860 If the offspring, multi-platinum, decades of success in the industry, still to this day,

00:42:46.660 the most sales for an independent album, I'm pretty sure smash, right?

00:42:49.840 It's never been beat.

00:42:50.880 It'll never be beat.

00:42:51.760 And it'll never be beat.

00:42:52.780 This is an indie release that will never be beaten.

00:42:56.080 And if anyone, anyone could have spoken up and said, don't fuck with us, it could have

00:43:03.520 been him.

00:43:04.100 It could have been the offspring.

00:43:05.760 He's rich already.

00:43:07.540 He's got fuck you money.

00:43:09.700 And he could have, he could have done, man, if he was worried about staff, employees, and

00:43:17.980 he didn't want to be a leader, he could have said, I get it, Pete, this sucks.

00:43:25.060 We're going to, we're going to, we're not going to let you down.

00:43:28.000 If the venues don't let you in, we're going to have to get somebody else, but we're here

00:43:31.620 with you the whole way, right?

00:43:33.220 They could have, you could have kept the job.

00:43:34.840 You could have been doing the studio stuff.

00:43:36.340 I mean, 14 years, that mean nothing.

00:43:38.080 So I'm like, the bare minimum could have been like, bro, we will take care of you.

00:43:41.900 Don't worry about it.

00:43:42.880 We are wealthy, successful, famous rock stars.

00:43:45.700 Couldn't even do that.

00:43:46.600 What I would expect, if it were me, if I had that kind of pull and I'm, and I'm playing

00:43:54.140 a show and you're the offspring, you say to the promoter, I wonder what the headline's

00:44:01.440 going to be when one of your top bands pulls out because of what you did to our drummer.

00:44:06.740 Make your choice.

00:44:08.260 We needed, excuse me, any leader, because what you're saying is, is, is true.

00:44:13.480 Everybody's getting leaned on.

00:44:14.660 Everyone's getting pressure.

00:44:15.480 They're going to each and every person, every band.

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00:45:16.180 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:45:21.780 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

00:45:26.720 our clients that we really care about you.

00:45:31.120 Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

00:45:34.660 Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

00:45:37.380 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care.

00:45:42.200 Did I mention that we care?

00:45:46.940 And I've said it over and over again.

00:45:48.680 If one rock star, if one band, one headliner said, we will pull out, we will force a refund,

00:45:57.040 we will breach the contract, go fuck yourself.

00:46:00.060 Those venues would start sweating bullets.

00:46:02.020 Well, the thing was there was a handful of people that did that.

00:46:06.880 You know, like you got Eric Clapton, I'm not going to play a segregated audience.

00:46:09.900 You've got people like John Rich and Kid Rock, but even somebody like Dorothy.

00:46:14.640 I don't know if you know her.

00:46:15.520 She's like a metal rock singer.

00:46:18.480 She was, you know, to me, like her stand, she's like, I'm not forcing anything on my crew.

00:46:24.340 We're not playing shows that force it on the audience.

00:46:26.780 Like for somebody of that size to really put it on the line where it would cost her something,

00:46:32.620 like to me, that meant a lot.

00:46:34.000 Like I think she's really cool.

00:46:35.480 That's awesome to hear.

00:46:36.060 I mean, and so I, if, if these people, if somebody hadn't started pushing back a little

00:46:42.780 bit, I'm sure there's more that's off the top of my head.

00:46:44.840 That's all I got.

00:46:45.580 But, you know, I don't know where we'd be right now.

00:46:48.200 Like I saw the protocols on one of the biggest tours that went out in, I guess it was 2021.

00:46:56.020 Um, and I saw the, you know, a friend of mine was a tech on, for one of the bands on it and

00:47:02.660 emailed me the specs that the crew received.

00:47:04.920 And it was insane.

00:47:06.280 It was like multiple bands on the bill.

00:47:09.260 Each band is in their own bubble.

00:47:11.420 They will not interact with the other bands inside your band.

00:47:13.980 Bubble will be broken up into smaller bubbles.

00:47:16.300 Like the, you know, the band itself travels in one bubble.

00:47:19.240 The crew is in a bubble inside the crew bubble.

00:47:21.760 If you are stage left, that is your bubble.

00:47:23.740 These are the people that you interact with.

00:47:25.860 Your bubble will move through the backstage areas together.

00:47:29.440 And it was crazy.

00:47:30.700 I'm like, you know, it's hard enough to be on tour already and to be boiled down to here's

00:47:37.660 the four people you're allowed to interact with for the next two months while you're on.

00:47:42.640 Like, I'm like, it, it just sounded like prison to me.

00:47:46.340 I'm like, how is anyone enjoying this?

00:47:48.000 I understand people want to make money.

00:47:49.580 I get that.

00:47:50.360 But, you know, it, it's hard to be on tour, like not boo-hoo.

00:47:54.600 Oh man, I traveled the world, but you know, you're away from your family and a lot of

00:47:59.940 it is, yeah, you've got the hour or two that you're on stage every night, but then you got

00:48:04.280 to fill the rest of your day.

00:48:05.620 I mean, people think everyone gets into drinking and stuff because it's a party, but it's like,

00:48:09.820 oh man, it's lonely.

00:48:11.240 Heroin.

00:48:11.740 Yeah.

00:48:12.320 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:13.060 It's like, you don't start heroin because you're having the best time on the road.

00:48:16.900 And I think that's a hard thing for people to square is like, well, you're traveling

00:48:21.300 the world in this and that.

00:48:22.460 And it's like, yeah, but you're, you're basically isolated by yourself.

00:48:26.960 And so now with COVID on top of all of it, you're isolated even more.

00:48:31.300 And people don't understand, man.

00:48:32.580 They, they equate seeing your show and that good feeling they get.

00:48:39.880 They assume you have that feeling.

00:48:41.760 Yeah.

00:48:42.040 I get it.

00:48:43.040 You know, you go, you go see a performance, you go see your favorite band, they play your

00:48:47.720 favorite songs.

00:48:48.440 You're singing along, you're cheering.

00:48:49.520 And they're like, hello, Chicago.

00:48:51.400 And you're like, yes, this is awesome.

00:48:53.740 You think that feeling you have is the feeling they have.

00:48:56.600 But those guys on stage are like, I have played this song every day, sometimes multiple

00:49:03.280 times, said the same things to the audience every single time.

00:49:07.240 This is the 13th time I've sung this song this week.

00:49:10.360 Like, yeah, so they don't have that feeling.

00:49:13.580 They're away from their families.

00:49:15.840 They're working.

00:49:17.440 And it is, it's like, and that's the thing too.

00:49:19.800 I mean, I write songs, full disclosure for everybody who's listening, obviously we've

00:49:25.140 done songs together.

00:49:25.920 We just filmed a music video.

00:49:26.960 So we've got more songs coming out.

00:49:28.280 It is an honor and a privilege, good sir.

00:49:29.800 Oh man, same here.

00:49:30.840 But I don't get that feeling from songs I write.

00:49:33.260 You know, the, the, the, the feeling that I get when I listen to a song from one of my favorite

00:49:38.100 bands, I never get a feeling from my own song.

00:49:40.980 You know, I don't know.

00:49:42.140 I don't know if you feel similarly or.

00:49:44.600 I think it's hard.

00:49:45.820 I mean, to your point about, you know, doing the same thing on stage every night, it's,

00:49:51.060 yes, you might be playing that song for the thousandth time, but somebody in that audience

00:49:58.500 is there for the first time.

00:50:00.520 And so that, that's the mindset that I think most performers would go to is like, regardless

00:50:06.360 of what's happening for me for the next 90 minutes, I'm turning that off because these

00:50:11.080 people came to see a good show and I'm going to, I'm going to give them that.

00:50:14.580 I might go back to my hotel room and cry myself to sleep later because I'm just having the worst

00:50:19.360 week ever.

00:50:20.220 But for now, my gig is this, like, I think about like Broadway performers that, you know,

00:50:26.700 eight shows a week, these people are not just like running through their set list, but they've

00:50:32.860 got to emotionally get to the same place, sometimes twice a day on weekends with their

00:50:38.400 matinee shows and stuff.

00:50:39.400 And I'm like, I've got friends that do that work and I'm just blown away by like, how do

00:50:44.240 you emotionally go there every day over and over and get back to that and then still just

00:50:50.720 wake up the next day?

00:50:52.140 Like, oh, let's go do it again.

00:50:53.420 Like it's any kind of performer, yeah, there's repetition in your art form, but, you know,

00:51:01.100 you got to find a way to make that fresh.

00:51:04.000 Even if you're tired of it, somebody paid to be there to enjoy it.

00:51:08.380 So you got to, you got to find a way to make it enjoyable for them.

00:51:11.860 There's that Andrew Tate clip I referenced periodically.

00:51:14.760 He says, whether I'm happy or sad, doesn't matter.

00:51:19.300 I got to wake up.

00:51:20.160 I got to do the exact same thing no matter what.

00:51:24.160 And, you know, aside from all the controversy around him, he's got good clips and he's

00:51:28.700 completely right about that.

00:51:30.980 You, if you wake up and you're like, I'm sad, so I'm not going to work, you're not

00:51:33.960 going to succeed.

00:51:34.660 Yeah.

00:51:35.320 And, but that's the thing too, like the point I was kind of getting to with touring and

00:51:40.200 doing rock and all that stuff and being a rock star.

00:51:42.120 Uh, I've not done that, but I used to travel.

00:51:45.720 I would be on a plane twice a week when I worked for vice and I worked for fusion flying around

00:51:49.620 the world, going to stories.

00:51:51.440 Sometimes we call them reckeys reconnaissance.

00:51:53.900 It's like, okay, we got to go down to this area and meet some sources and see if the story

00:51:56.880 is actually there.

00:51:57.540 So I'm in random places with no friends half the time.

00:52:01.320 But, uh, I was lucky enough to have, uh, Luke Rudkowski of We Are Change has been on

00:52:05.100 the show several times for him.

00:52:06.780 It was like, win, win.

00:52:07.940 We've been good friends for a real long time, but he's like, I'll sleep on the floor of the

00:52:11.720 hotel room you got saved money.

00:52:13.320 And then we'll hang out.

00:52:14.700 And you know, it, it, it worked in that I had a friend who was also doing something

00:52:18.280 similar.

00:52:18.880 So I wonder if, if there was at least that, when you're on tour, you'll see another band

00:52:23.580 and you're like, oh, it's, it's Jim man.

00:52:25.500 And you grab a drink and you hang out and those are the best days.

00:52:28.220 Cause as much as you love your band and your crew that you see every day, when that, that's

00:52:32.820 why festivals are the best, because you're going to see tons of other bands that, you

00:52:36.980 know, and people that you might only see once every couple of years.

00:52:40.700 And so anytime you can bump into somebody, it's the best.

00:52:44.620 It, I mean, it, it changes your attitude.

00:52:46.660 Like, uh, my best friend, like I said, he's a guitar tech and he would, he'll just show up

00:52:51.740 out of nowhere somewhere.

00:52:52.660 I'm, we were playing a show in Vegas one night and I'm like getting hit in the head with

00:52:56.520 something.

00:52:56.900 And I looked down and there's like a pile of guitar picks on the drum riser.

00:52:59.700 And I look over and he's just on the side of the stage.

00:53:01.960 Like, I didn't even know he was coming.

00:53:03.160 He's just like flicking guitar picks at me, you know?

00:53:05.840 So it's like, and, and when he would have time off, I, he would, he came out to tour

00:53:10.440 manage saves the day.

00:53:11.300 Like he was working for Prince and then, you know, left that.

00:53:15.280 And I was like, Hey, we need a tour manager come out.

00:53:17.240 And he's like, yeah, I'll come slum it with you guys so we can hang out.

00:53:19.600 And that's, that's when it's fun or, you know, we go on tour and we're playing a festival

00:53:24.060 of corn and I get to see Ray or, you know, you see all these people that, um, that, that

00:53:29.720 lifts you up, that, that buys you a week at least, you know, of like, Oh, okay.

00:53:33.940 Yeah.

00:53:34.280 This is fun again.

00:53:35.680 Yeah.

00:53:36.720 It's otherwise it's just repetition.

00:53:39.360 Yeah.

00:53:40.240 Man, it's gotta be brutal.

00:53:41.100 So yeah, it can be a grind, but you know, no complaints, you're traveling the world and

00:53:46.040 but it's, it's, it's not what everyone's, you know, I, I hear you on the no complaints

00:53:51.440 to an extent you, you like, I don't know if you, if I don't want to talk too much about

00:53:58.660 money because it's people's private business, but it's not like you are a founding member

00:54:02.420 of the offspring who gets it, who gets royalties and access to the, to this deep cut of all

00:54:06.720 the money they're making.

00:54:07.420 I think what did, what did, uh, they sell their, uh, the, the library for like 35 million

00:54:12.820 or something like this.

00:54:13.560 Something like that.

00:54:14.040 Yeah.

00:54:14.340 And so, and then there's tour money and the fees you're getting paid a salary.

00:54:19.100 So you're like, you're doing this really hard work.

00:54:21.960 You're traveling around.

00:54:23.120 It's repetitious.

00:54:24.060 It's, it's just a job.

00:54:25.420 Yeah.

00:54:26.000 And, uh, and then you got to go on stage every day and see that, that like young person

00:54:30.900 is a big fan with glowing eyes being like, I can't believe it.

00:54:33.440 It's Pete, it's Dexter, it's noodles.

00:54:34.880 Like everybody's here.

00:54:35.860 And, and you smile and wink at them, but deep down you're dead inside.

00:54:41.540 Some, some days it feels like that.

00:54:43.340 But if you see somebody like that, then you're not dead inside anymore.

00:54:46.720 You know, I mean, that's what lights you up, huh?

00:54:48.060 The fans will light you up.

00:54:49.220 I mean that, cause you're, you're seeing a new group of people every night and it's

00:54:54.860 like, okay, well you owe it to these people too.

00:54:57.760 Even if you're having a shitty day, like suck it up, do your job, you know?

00:55:02.980 And as a drummer too, you are, a lot of people I think don't understand, you know, the drummer's

00:55:10.000 aspect in a band.

00:55:11.080 People are like, oh yeah, you keep the beat and back there.

00:55:13.020 It's like, no, the drummer is running the show if he's doing his job right.

00:55:16.820 Like you are, you are pacing, you're feeling out in between the song.

00:55:20.780 Like, oh, they're going to cheer a little more.

00:55:22.500 They like that one.

00:55:23.280 Like you are like, this person's going to need this cue for their transition.

00:55:28.020 Or sometimes somebody is going to turn around and be like, how does this song start?

00:55:32.060 And you got to be like, oh, it goes like this.

00:55:33.880 Or, you know, you, you need to anticipate what everybody's needs are on stage.

00:55:39.580 And I don't think a lot of people understand that.

00:55:42.220 So shout out to my drummer friends that do their job.

00:55:45.100 When you do it well, no one notices.

00:55:46.900 Yeah.

00:55:47.360 You know, it's everything is smooth.

00:55:48.300 You got to do tricks too.

00:55:48.680 Do you like throw the drumstick in the air and catch it?

00:55:50.440 You know, when I was a kid, I've got a video that I've been trying to get my VCR to work.

00:55:54.980 Cause I've, I've like played in this talent show when I was like 16 and I'm all like twirling

00:55:59.480 sticks and, and hilarious, like stuff that I couldn't do now to save my life.

00:56:03.460 But it was fun when I was a kid.

00:56:05.500 But yeah, I mean, you're putting on a show, whether you're swinging back to the point where

00:56:09.420 you're getting welts on your back because you hit yourself swinging back too far or hitting

00:56:14.360 your hands when you're, oh my God, I've lost this nail so many times because, you know,

00:56:19.340 I hit rim shots, which is the stick is hitting the edge of the drum and the head at the same

00:56:23.180 time.

00:56:23.440 And sometimes I'm a little bit off and I catch the finger in between and it just, you

00:56:28.220 got to keep playing.

00:56:29.200 Yeah.

00:56:29.380 Yeah.

00:56:29.500 You got to keep playing.

00:56:30.240 I mean, you're on stage bleeding and you're just playing.

00:56:32.960 Yeah.

00:56:33.280 Bleeding and it's throbbing.

00:56:34.500 And you're like, in my mind, I'm like, great.

00:56:36.860 Now the next six months I've got to watch this nail, this dead nail grow out.

00:56:40.480 Well, and so it's, it's the worst, but.

00:56:42.660 I actually have a gold medal in drumming.

00:56:46.220 That's right.

00:56:47.100 From where?

00:56:48.000 I think I was like eight and I started, I started playing drums when I was like seven.

00:56:53.540 And so when I went, I went to a school called Our Lady of the Snows in Chicago and they had

00:57:00.100 a music program.

00:57:01.300 So for me, it was awesome.

00:57:02.420 I, I got to leave class abruptly in the middle of class to go to this weird little closet where

00:57:08.140 me and two other kids would play snare drum and we'd have like the music and I would read

00:57:11.920 music and, and just do snare.

00:57:14.540 And then I'd went, they had like a competition or something.

00:57:17.740 I don't know.

00:57:18.660 I went in a room and there were judges and I played and then they were like, you are the

00:57:22.520 best.

00:57:22.840 So I got like a little, I think my mom has it, like a little gold drumming metal.

00:57:27.100 So, you know, that means I'm, I'm, I'm better than you at drums.

00:57:29.520 I think you should have her dig that metal out and you should wear it nightly on your show.

00:57:33.460 Look at me.

00:57:34.300 I can play the drums.

00:57:35.260 I can do real basic stuff.

00:57:36.560 Yeah.

00:57:36.720 Yeah.

00:57:37.440 And then, uh, for me, uh, I, these, there was another kid in my school who played drums.

00:57:43.640 And so another kid in my class played, uh, bass and then the drummer kid's brother played

00:57:50.180 guitar.

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00:59:15.480 Did I mention that we care?

00:59:19.020 And so we were talking, walking home from school one day and I was like, I play drums.

00:59:23.260 And they were like, oh, that sucks.

00:59:24.080 We don't need a drummer.

00:59:24.620 We need a guitar player.

00:59:25.740 And so then I go home and I have this really nice drum kit.

00:59:28.140 But my mom got me like, not only was it like your standard kit, but she got me, I had a

00:59:32.920 splash, a Zildjian splash.

00:59:34.540 So a little bit, you know, better than just your, she gave me, you know, a little bit

00:59:37.600 more.

00:59:38.080 And then I'm like, I don't want to play drums anymore.

00:59:39.580 I want to play guitar.

00:59:40.620 And then my mom was just like, she wanted me to play drums.

00:59:42.640 My brother played guitar.

00:59:43.860 My sister played keyboard.

00:59:44.940 And then it turned out I was the only one who'd done anything.

00:59:47.100 And I played guitar.

00:59:49.060 Then this band, I go to my friend's house and he's like, listen to this.

00:59:52.440 And he like puts in Americana.

00:59:54.700 And then it's, you know, what is the first song on Americana?

00:59:58.120 Is it, um, have you ever, I think?

01:00:01.260 Yeah, it's have you ever.

01:00:02.320 I just like, uh, blocked it out.

01:00:04.480 Yeah.

01:00:04.680 Right.

01:00:05.380 And so then obviously the hits, everybody knew pretty fly for a white guy.

01:00:10.020 Yeah.

01:00:10.540 So of course I knew that, but they're like, you gotta listen to the album.

01:00:12.660 And then I was like, mom, I got to get this CD and mom, I got to get this, this tab book.

01:00:16.700 Yeah.

01:00:17.320 And that was, that was, that was what started it for me.

01:00:19.800 And then, uh, of course I wasn't cool listening to the offstring cause they're pop punk.

01:00:24.540 Right.

01:00:24.740 So then the other real punk rocks, you know, punk rock kids in the neighborhood, they were

01:00:28.280 listening to like the virus and, uh, anti-flag and, you know, even anti-flag was a little

01:00:32.900 too poppy.

01:00:33.600 You know, they were like, but then bad brains and all that stuff.

01:00:38.060 So that was, that was it for me.

01:00:39.480 And then around the time, I think 18 years old, everybody had like an evolution into

01:00:44.580 indie rock post punk and stuff like that.

01:00:47.240 And so then all of a sudden we were all no longer listening to the offspring or bad religion.

01:00:53.800 Somehow it turned into death kept for cutie.

01:00:56.180 Yeah.

01:00:56.540 Like way, I don't know what's the right word.

01:00:59.140 Sissier.

01:01:00.240 Yeah.

01:01:00.620 Dude.

01:01:00.920 I, I love death kept for cutie.

01:01:03.020 The photo album.

01:01:03.760 When I first heard that, I was like, what is this?

01:01:06.300 Yeah.

01:01:06.640 Cool stuff.

01:01:07.320 Really cool.

01:01:08.300 Yeah.

01:01:08.500 Yeah.

01:01:09.020 Yeah.

01:01:09.420 So what do you think, man?

01:01:11.060 I, I, I, I read a lot about the history of a lot of bands and I'm also a huge fan of

01:01:15.980 the Smashing Pumpkins, obviously, cause who isn't?

01:01:18.540 And I love Ava Adore, but it's very different from Melancholy and the Infinite Sandness.

01:01:24.580 Yeah.

01:01:25.800 And I was reading about how something to the effect, I don't, I don't want to speak too

01:01:30.040 much on what I'm not an expert on or anything, but you know, Billy Corgan, he makes this album.

01:01:34.220 It's, it's mind blowing.

01:01:36.000 It's this double album.

01:01:36.860 It's huge.

01:01:37.460 It's, it's all these songs that are so amazing.

01:01:40.400 And then they come out with this new album.

01:01:41.900 It's very different.

01:01:42.940 And it's because there's this belief that guitar music is on the way out.

01:01:45.980 Right.

01:01:46.380 But I hear that story from so many different bands where at some point this band got big,

01:01:51.860 then believed quote unquote guitar music's on the way out, change their sound.

01:01:55.980 And then.

01:01:56.180 Yeah.

01:01:57.420 Well, I mean, you can go back 20 years ago, Rolling Stone every two years would have the

01:02:02.780 cover of, oh, this band's going to save rock and roll.

01:02:05.320 Like it was the Vines and then it was, you know, the Strokes.

01:02:08.820 And so it was always like, you can't, you can't lift it back up if you don't tear it down.

01:02:14.140 So it was like rock music, guitar music, it's on the outs, it's on the outs.

01:02:18.100 Oh, it's back.

01:02:18.780 Now it's on the outs.

01:02:19.660 Oh, now there's this new band.

01:02:20.920 So I don't know.

01:02:22.080 It does kind of feel like, I don't know, in a down period, would you say?

01:02:27.580 I mean, it's felt like that for about 10 years.

01:02:30.000 Yeah.

01:02:30.160 Yeah.

01:02:30.880 You know.

01:02:31.180 That's kind of weird.

01:02:31.780 Certain bands can put something out and it's going to cut through no matter what.

01:02:34.980 But yeah, I don't know.

01:02:37.880 It definitely got very synth heavy.

01:02:40.760 Yeah.

01:02:42.160 Yeah.

01:02:42.620 Like probably one of my favorite bands of all time is Metric.

01:02:46.800 Dude, that band's cool.

01:02:47.880 Yeah.

01:02:48.380 Their early stuff is kind of Pixies-ish, indie.

01:02:51.860 I don't know how you describe it.

01:02:52.900 Rock.

01:02:53.100 Okay.

01:02:53.540 I just know their bigger songs.

01:02:55.540 Yeah.

01:02:55.700 Their modern stuff is more electric.

01:02:57.160 Their new album, Form and Terra, is very synth heavy.

01:03:01.840 And their past albums have been very, very, I don't know.

01:03:04.720 I'd almost call it like indie pop synth or something.

01:03:08.140 Right.

01:03:08.460 Whereas Combat Baby is kind of a grungy indie rock song.

01:03:14.360 And that was a song that was, I think, like 2001 or something.

01:03:18.460 And it was on the iPod.

01:03:19.800 It was like a big release, I guess.

01:03:21.020 I don't know.

01:03:21.800 They're not the biggest band in the world or anything like that.

01:03:23.260 But I think they're absolutely fantastic.

01:03:25.160 I've played festivals with them before.

01:03:26.380 They're fantastic live.

01:03:27.800 That's what I hear.

01:03:28.660 I hear they're like one of the best live shows to go to.

01:03:31.380 It was like, oh, shit.

01:03:32.660 Okay.

01:03:33.280 Yeah.

01:03:33.540 Yeah.

01:03:33.960 That's cool stuff.

01:03:34.960 But now, you know, even the music we're doing is the weirdest thing because we put out a song,

01:03:40.220 Only Ever Wanted.

01:03:41.440 And people are like, it's a dated sound.

01:03:44.360 It's old.

01:03:45.040 And I'm like, I guess.

01:03:45.980 But I don't care, man.

01:03:46.540 I made a song.

01:03:47.020 You don't have to like it.

01:03:47.600 You know what I mean?

01:03:48.160 Yeah.

01:03:48.380 But that was kind of what I guess like the mainstream corporate narrative was it's old.

01:03:56.600 Right.

01:03:56.980 And it's like, so what do we got to do?

01:03:57.980 Do we got to do like a dance techno song to like fit the modern era or whatever?

01:04:03.720 I know.

01:04:04.520 It just seems like everything needs to be pigeonholed and put into a box.

01:04:09.380 And it's all so boring.

01:04:11.040 It's like, you know, oh, well, you can't have that sound because it sounds like 90s

01:04:15.900 or whatever.

01:04:16.280 And it's like, so what?

01:04:17.540 It's music.

01:04:18.240 It's art.

01:04:18.920 It's subjective.

01:04:19.860 You don't have to like it.

01:04:21.160 But to say you shouldn't have done that is crazy to me.

01:04:25.140 It's like you're an artist.

01:04:27.220 You're making something.

01:04:29.560 If somebody doesn't like it, that's okay.

01:04:32.460 I mean, that's how it goes.

01:04:34.340 You don't have any control over that.

01:04:35.900 But, you know, I feel like as an artist, you should do what you enjoy.

01:04:40.580 And yeah, there's a responsibility to the audience to an extent.

01:04:44.620 But you also get to do what you want.

01:04:46.840 Yeah.

01:04:47.520 Especially if you've been successful and you just have fuck you money.

01:04:51.780 Yeah.

01:04:52.020 I've been through it twice with Face to Face and Saves the Day.

01:04:54.620 Both bands, I came in on their fourth album.

01:04:57.100 Both albums, a big departure from their previous sound.

01:05:00.160 And both times just polarized the audience.

01:05:03.860 And, you know, I think the Face to Face record, Ignorance is Bliss, it's looked back on now

01:05:09.120 like, oh, damn, that record still holds up.

01:05:11.180 It's cool.

01:05:11.940 But at the time, it was very different than their punk rock thing.

01:05:15.780 And, you know, it probably should have been more of like a side project.

01:05:19.220 But nobody did those back then.

01:05:21.380 And we talked about it.

01:05:22.480 We were like, oh, maybe we should put this out under a different name.

01:05:25.100 And then we can go make a Face to Face record.

01:05:27.460 But, you know, record labels and things are like, no, no, you've got to use your name and

01:05:31.740 whatever.

01:05:32.020 Yeah, it's weird because the idea is like the brand will sell no matter what.

01:05:36.080 Right.

01:05:36.140 You know, if you've got a big brand, you can put out an album that's just chicken box.

01:05:40.380 People will buy it.

01:05:41.320 They'll get pissed off.

01:05:42.280 Yeah.

01:05:42.540 But you got the money.

01:05:43.400 Right.

01:05:43.980 It's like, I remember when Pirates of the Caribbean 2 came out, Dead Man's Chest.

01:05:48.740 And I think that movie's shit.

01:05:50.240 Yeah.

01:05:50.700 That was tough.

01:05:51.400 The first one's awesome.

01:05:52.460 Yeah.

01:05:52.920 And so they were probably just like, who gives a fuck?

01:05:54.980 Just slap it all together.

01:05:56.960 Slap the name on it.

01:05:57.860 We make money.

01:05:58.660 And then they come out and they say, made even more money than the first one.

01:06:01.500 And I'm like, yeah, because the first one was good.

01:06:03.100 Right.

01:06:03.580 But the lesson learned is not that making a subpar version made more money.

01:06:09.740 Let's make an even worse one.

01:06:11.280 That's all they keep doing.

01:06:12.120 Yeah.

01:06:12.400 And then they were like, we're going to do an all-female reboot, I guess, with like Margot

01:06:15.140 Robbie.

01:06:16.600 I just feel like everyone's fucking lost their minds.

01:06:19.800 But that is an interesting thing about how music goes.

01:06:23.860 So I was always fairly pragmatic when it came to music in that, you know, I listened

01:06:30.920 to The Offspring and then I get into more skate punk stuff related because I'm skateboarding

01:06:36.260 and you get Bad Religion.

01:06:37.500 And then the Tony Hawk 2 soundtrack, obviously, was huge.

01:06:40.360 Everyone loved it.

01:06:41.140 Goldfinger, Mill and Colin.

01:06:43.100 And then, you know, like I mentioned, like we're getting into the indie phase, it starts

01:06:47.860 coming in.

01:06:49.100 But I was always fairly like, look, man, pop music's fun.

01:06:52.060 You know, you can act like you're this big, you're this cool kid who knows the secret

01:06:56.160 band no one's ever heard of, but that's fine.

01:06:58.860 If you're a fan of this indie band no one's ever heard of and you're like, oh, you know,

01:07:03.100 I'm a fan of, you know, the Paper Airplane Trio.

01:07:05.540 You never heard of them.

01:07:06.180 It's whatever.

01:07:07.120 It's like, don't act smug about it.

01:07:08.360 You're allowed to like what you like.

01:07:09.820 But come on, pop music is fun.

01:07:11.380 You know what I mean?

01:07:12.120 Like Taylor Swift is fun.

01:07:13.740 Absolutely.

01:07:14.660 Sia is fun.

01:07:15.580 It's fun music.

01:07:16.520 I think Sia is actually great.

01:07:17.480 And Taylor Swift has got some good, like, it's just, it's fun music.

01:07:23.340 So, you know, I'm listening to pop punk stuff, the Decadence stuff, the Fueled by Ramen stuff.

01:07:30.520 And there are a lot of people who are like punk purists who are like punk is dead.

01:07:34.380 They got mad at Green Day and all that shit.

01:07:35.880 And it's just weird to me because it's like, do your thing, be original, build the culture, and then recognize what it is that people like about this pop stuff.

01:07:45.520 But there is a kind of fear, I suppose, that there's the corporatization of the culture, which could kill it or rip its soul out.

01:07:53.820 And so, like, skateboarding, for instance, you know, it goes hand in hand with a lot of this punk stuff.

01:07:59.840 Skateboarding in the 90s and the 80s was, my understanding, you were a weirdo.

01:08:04.700 If you were doing this stuff, you were a goofy weirdo.

01:08:07.240 Like, what are you doing?

01:08:08.200 Then all of a sudden, Tony Hawk lands the 900 and now there's video games and it's the coolest shit ever.

01:08:16.240 And then there was a fear that it would lose its core, you know, and it would become corporate.

01:08:23.440 Kind of did.

01:08:24.460 You get these bigger companies coming in, but it still has maintained that kind of, you know, skateboarding has still maintained some degree of it.

01:08:30.720 But now that it's Olympic, the Olympics were really scary.

01:08:33.860 It was like, this is it.

01:08:34.600 But you're going to get kids in unitards being trained by, you know, multimillionaire companies.

01:08:42.080 And this rebel lifestyle is going to die along with it.

01:08:47.040 Yeah.

01:08:47.280 Well, when anything gets a little too big, then it gets co-opted.

01:08:51.720 You know, you get corporations.

01:08:53.740 When there's money to be made, everyone comes in.

01:08:57.000 And then the thing that you loved is changed because too many people start getting their fingers in the pot and it's not what it was anymore.

01:09:06.220 And, you know, that happens with bands.

01:09:07.620 It happens with skateboarding.

01:09:09.280 I remember, I mean, poker, you know, poker didn't used to be cool.

01:09:13.260 And then all of a sudden, 20 years ago, you know, that one random dude won World Series of poker.

01:09:17.900 And then everybody's like, oh, poker's awesome.

01:09:19.920 Matt Damon did a movie about it.

01:09:21.080 Right, yeah.

01:09:21.620 And everyone was like, oh.

01:09:22.500 Yeah, celebrity poker shows on TV and stuff.

01:09:25.420 And, you know, same thing with comic books and Star Wars.

01:09:28.320 You know, when I was a kid, you'd get slapped around.

01:09:30.320 Like, I love Star Wars.

01:09:31.480 I still have all my action figures and stuff.

01:09:33.580 Oh, no.

01:09:33.760 Oh, yeah.

01:09:34.780 Yeah, dude.

01:09:35.540 Yeah, OG Star Wars, but oh, man.

01:09:37.260 But I'm just saying, like, and nowadays it's like, yeah, of course, cool.

01:09:41.080 Yeah, it's fine.

01:09:42.660 But, you know, you liked comic books when you were a kid and you get beat up for that kind of thing.

01:09:46.360 And now it's very mainstream.

01:09:48.360 It feels like it's hitting everything, though.

01:09:51.320 Like, culture is stagnating.

01:09:53.320 Everything feels corporatized and plastic and busted up.

01:09:57.080 And I don't know what, I don't know, man.

01:09:59.740 Well, but everything is under only a few umbrellas.

01:10:02.600 You know, I mean, you can break it down into smaller companies, but it's all overtly owned by the same, you know, big corporations.

01:10:10.740 So everything gets, you know, taken over.

01:10:14.520 All of this kind of goes hand in hand, I guess.

01:10:16.340 Like, the first story we're talking about with you and The Offspring and the corporatization of culture and stuff like that.

01:10:24.900 I'm thinking about it and it feels like you mentioned, you know, should Face to Face put out an album that's just like their music or should they have a departure?

01:10:33.560 And then the label's like, just put it out under the brand because it'll sell.

01:10:36.640 And that's what it feels like.

01:10:37.600 It feels like, you know, a band like The Offspring says, look, ain't nobody got our back.

01:10:43.060 So we ain't got nobody else's back.

01:10:45.180 Take the paycheck and shut the fuck up.

01:10:47.100 And it feels like that's not unique to this one band.

01:10:50.280 It's everybody is in the space where they're like every man for themselves.

01:10:53.460 That's everywhere.

01:10:54.780 I mean, that's...

01:10:56.120 That sucks.

01:10:56.740 It's, well, that's the business.

01:10:58.240 You've got to navigate, you know, your way around.

01:11:00.520 And for me, this was my first and last foray into just being like a featured player in a group where, you know, I was always like a member of the band before I was always writing and contributing and feeling creative.

01:11:15.040 And, you know, that's not always the case.

01:11:18.160 And that's not always a bad thing.

01:11:20.040 Like, you know, at the time I was like, oh, you know, that sounds cool.

01:11:23.260 I don't have to have an opinion.

01:11:25.020 I don't have to think.

01:11:26.300 I just show up.

01:11:27.000 I do my script and do my job.

01:11:28.980 And that's cool.

01:11:29.580 And it worked great for a long time.

01:11:31.380 And then you get out of there and you're kind of like, oh, man, I wasn't very creative at all.

01:11:37.400 I didn't feel like I was...

01:11:38.820 Autopilot.

01:11:39.640 Yeah.

01:11:40.100 And there's situations where, yes, you are paid for your ability on your instrument, but you're also paid for your ability to do what you're told.

01:11:48.140 And that's a lot of gigs and there's nothing wrong with that, you know.

01:11:52.480 Tons of dudes, that's their bread and butter.

01:11:55.240 For me, I'm just kind of like, yeah, I don't think I would do that again.

01:11:58.200 And, you know, I didn't...

01:11:59.820 It's like you woke up or something.

01:12:00.840 It's like...

01:12:01.840 Yeah, because you get complacent.

01:12:04.420 You're like, okay, yeah, I'm not contributing anything artistically here, but I get paid every week.

01:12:10.240 And you get into that mode.

01:12:12.600 So since getting out of there, you know, I felt it's kind of been a resurgence of, you know, working with you and doing drum tracks for people.

01:12:21.840 Like I have a studio at my house where I just record all day and I'm creating.

01:12:25.860 And it's kind of gotten me back to why I started playing music in the first place.

01:12:32.140 Like why do I love the drums?

01:12:34.320 Why do I love music and writing and creating?

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01:14:00.120 Care, care.

01:14:01.180 Did I mention that we care?

01:14:02.200 For me, it's been really exciting on that front to just sort of have a rebirth, you know, definitely a shift in my career from what I was doing.

01:14:12.960 But, you know, we had to find a new way forward.

01:14:15.740 Like, you know, I had to let people know, hey, I'm out of a job.

01:14:19.680 I'm available.

01:14:20.540 I need work here.

01:14:21.540 Like, I'm the only breadwinner in our family.

01:14:23.440 Like, my wife homeschools our girls.

01:14:25.380 They have, she has since my oldest daughter was seven.

01:14:28.680 And I've always supported that.

01:14:30.300 I think it's been great for when I was touring a lot.

01:14:33.420 Like, they didn't have to answer to any school or anything if they wanted to come out on the road.

01:14:37.000 Like, and, you know, so that's just how our family has always worked.

01:14:40.960 So you're the patriarch of the family, the breadwinner, and your kids are homeschooled.

01:14:45.380 But you're not a conservative guy, are you?

01:14:46.980 No, I'm not.

01:14:48.500 And I think, you know, through this whole thing with the vax mandates and stuff, it feels like if there's a checklist over here on the left.

01:15:01.040 And I always considered myself really progressive, right?

01:15:04.060 And I don't, I definitely didn't feel like a conservative.

01:15:08.740 And I don't have a problem one way or the other.

01:15:11.220 But it feels like right now there's this checklist of all these purity tests that you've got to check every box.

01:15:16.420 And as soon as you miss one, you're out entirely.

01:15:18.760 There's no nuance.

01:15:19.720 There's no middle ground.

01:15:21.040 So I'm just like, oh, I don't think we should be mandating vaccines.

01:15:24.560 And it's like, oh, well, you're crazy MAGA Republican.

01:15:27.840 Yeah.

01:15:28.040 You're alt-right.

01:15:29.180 Well, yeah, you're alt-right.

01:15:30.080 And it's like, well, I've got a lot of friends that are Trump supporters and stuff.

01:15:33.560 I don't have a problem with that.

01:15:34.680 Like, that's not a good insult for me.

01:15:37.820 And there it is.

01:15:38.580 Yeah.

01:15:38.920 And it's just like, you know, I didn't vote for Trump.

01:15:41.100 I didn't vote for Biden.

01:15:42.760 You know, I wrote in Bernie Sanders.

01:15:44.300 Like, I didn't feel like either of the options we were presented represented me in any way.

01:15:50.840 So politically, I'm pretty marooned.

01:15:54.020 You know, I'm definitely leaning more libertarian than anything.

01:15:57.020 But it's crazy.

01:15:58.920 There's this meme.

01:16:01.140 It basically says, if you deviate from leftist economic positions, the left will not care.

01:16:08.580 If you deviate from their social positions in any way, you are right-wing.

01:16:15.680 Yeah.

01:16:16.160 So what this says is, the left and the right is not about economics anymore.

01:16:21.100 It's not socialist and capitalist.

01:16:22.900 It is, it's culture war.

01:16:25.280 It's, do you march in lockstep with us or not?

01:16:30.280 And that's what I try to point out to some people that I know.

01:16:33.220 Like, for me, the siren started going off in 2020 or leading up to that where everybody was, well, it's blue no matter who.

01:16:41.660 And, like, we'd be in the primaries and we're trying to have conversations with people like, oh, who are you voting for?

01:16:46.600 You know, who do you like?

01:16:47.740 And it's like, doesn't matter.

01:16:48.660 Blue no matter who.

01:16:49.340 We got to get Trump out.

01:16:50.380 And I was like, but right now is when you get a say.

01:16:53.700 Like, are you really telling me you're just going to let the party pick your person?

01:16:58.400 And, you know, I naively thought that anyone had a choice anyway.

01:17:01.300 But then watching Bernie just get completely railroaded, like media blackout until he dropped out.

01:17:07.800 And then, like, oh, yeah, please come on and tell us about your endorsement of Joe Biden.

01:17:12.820 I know, right?

01:17:13.880 But I try to point out to people, I'm like, here's your list.

01:17:18.160 Like, yeah, I didn't like this one and I was lit on fire.

01:17:22.780 Eventually, and the list is added to hourly.

01:17:25.720 Eventually, like, eventually something's going to come up that you don't like.

01:17:29.800 The same thing will happen to you.

01:17:31.940 Do you think this played a role in what happened with the offspring?

01:17:34.620 Like, were you this don't make me defend Trump guy?

01:17:39.620 I don't know about that.

01:17:42.040 I mean, I didn't vote for Trump.

01:17:45.540 I, you know, and I'm not going to say how other people vote for things, but I'm not.

01:17:53.680 Hmm.

01:17:54.220 That's a that's a that's a tricky one there.

01:17:56.600 I don't I don't.

01:17:57.380 Well, don't don't don't say what you can say.

01:17:59.180 But I'll tell you this.

01:17:59.780 I think I think the offspring guys are probably conservatives.

01:18:02.620 I mean, like, probably neoliberal is a better way to describe them, not conservative establishment.

01:18:09.800 But like, I've been saying this, man, they have a song called Why Don't You Get a Job?

01:18:15.420 That's typically not a leftist perspective.

01:18:18.640 Yeah, I always took that song is very tongue in cheek.

01:18:20.800 Like he was just telling a story about his friend or something.

01:18:23.440 So I don't know.

01:18:24.700 I don't I wouldn't.

01:18:25.720 I don't know that I would.

01:18:27.100 But the message.

01:18:27.740 I mean, the kids aren't all right.

01:18:30.200 How about hit that?

01:18:31.780 Like, come on, like hit that is a song about dating hookup culture being bad and how people

01:18:39.080 need to stop doing it, basically.

01:18:40.840 Right.

01:18:41.380 Yeah, you see it that way, I guess.

01:18:43.000 I mean, for those for those that aren't familiar with the song, hit that is it's about a guy

01:18:52.800 who's sleeping around and having a bunch of kids and a woman who's banging a bunch of guys

01:18:56.580 and having having kids and then they're off just doing all this stuff.

01:19:00.100 And he's like, that's the way it goes.

01:19:02.280 It sounds very negative.

01:19:04.040 It's a very negative depiction of modern hookup culture.

01:19:07.540 So you like hearing songs like that.

01:19:09.280 I'm like, these guys probably deep down.

01:19:11.780 They probably come off to me as traditional.

01:19:16.420 Like, what's the right way to describe it?

01:19:18.540 Neocon, neolibish.

01:19:20.920 I don't want to say necessarily conservative because the way they treated you and the way they

01:19:25.120 go about things, but I'd be willing to bet they're the kind of person who probably have

01:19:30.000 somewhat conservative viewpoints, but are extremely self-interested to the point where

01:19:35.560 they'll say whatever they have to say to make money and just get by.

01:19:39.320 I don't, but you, you know, don't say things you're allowed to say.

01:19:42.480 I'm not here to speak for anybody's views or anything.

01:19:44.480 You're like, oh, let me tell you the secrets of, no, no, no.

01:19:46.540 No, that's none of my business.

01:19:47.900 So, you know, every, everybody's, yeah, I, I can't speak for anybody but myself.

01:19:53.700 It kind of bums me out this whole, not just what happened with you, but the whole thing,

01:19:57.640 because it makes me feel like we're in this every man for, for himself situation.

01:20:01.180 And it's like only, only are people pretending to, to care about each other.

01:20:05.680 And if we're going to actually have something that is truly problem solving, it's going

01:20:13.160 to have to be us building culture and creating a space where we're like, if you are part

01:20:17.740 of this culture and a part of the space, we do not put ourselves as like above everybody

01:20:23.400 else to a certain degree.

01:20:25.200 It's like, it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting.

01:20:27.260 The, the, the, the cultural left or whatever they say that we say they're collectivist and

01:20:32.560 the right is more individualist, but the way I view it is you have to put community,

01:20:39.080 your, you have to take your responsibility to the community seriously and you have to

01:20:42.860 recognize that it's not all about you, but at the same time, the, your rights start with

01:20:47.560 you as the individual, whereas it feels like with the left or whatever this, whatever you

01:20:51.980 want to call it, I don't want to say left or right, but like the people who are like

01:20:54.620 fall in line and agree with us or you're fired, they're not striving towards anything.

01:20:59.760 And that's, it's, it's dangerous.

01:21:00.900 It feels like lemmings walking off a cliff.

01:21:03.020 Yeah.

01:21:03.360 I mean, that, that's what I'm saying.

01:21:04.660 It feels like there's no, there's no middle ground and there's no nuance.

01:21:08.000 It's like either you adhere to all of these things or you are, you will be branded as

01:21:14.260 this anti-vaxxer, far right, Trump loving.

01:21:18.860 And it's just like, you know, it's just not, it's not an insult to me, any of this stuff.

01:21:24.540 It's just not accurate.

01:21:26.020 John, that's not who I am.

01:21:27.140 You know, did you ever see that clip with Jon Stewart where he was talking with Colbert

01:21:31.200 about the lab leak?

01:21:32.260 And Colbert was like, well, now hold on there a minute.

01:21:34.820 And Jon Stewart's like, the bat coronavirus research center in Wuhan had a bat coronavirus

01:21:41.900 a few blocks away.

01:21:43.660 And so he did, when the Department of Energy came out and said, lab leak's probably correct.

01:21:49.580 The FBI came out, agreed.

01:21:51.660 And so these are just two agencies.

01:21:53.160 But I mean, like, come on, the FBI and the Department of Energy oversees biolabs.

01:21:57.160 Seems like, okay, well, there's some, there's some, maybe this is the case, right?

01:22:01.560 The, the, as Seamus Coughlin put, I love saying this, the city with the virus factory had

01:22:05.500 a virus outbreak.

01:22:06.620 And you're told you're crazy if you don't think it came from the virus factory.

01:22:10.260 But Jon Stewart points out that they called him racist.

01:22:15.020 They called him alt-right and conservative for suggesting lab leak may be the case.

01:22:20.180 Yeah.

01:22:20.700 And that's, I feel like most people probably have experienced something to that degree.

01:22:25.200 If in any way you disagree with the cult narrative.

01:22:29.680 They come for you fast.

01:22:31.240 But they call you a white supremacist, like a white nationalist.

01:22:34.080 I don't think I got called that.

01:22:35.480 I did get called a Nazi from some, some real friendly messages from people who were wishing

01:22:40.380 death upon me and my family and.

01:22:42.840 Strangers?

01:22:43.620 Yeah, strangers.

01:22:44.480 And which, and that stuff is like, that's the easy stuff to shrug off.

01:22:47.500 I'm like, yeah, whatever.

01:22:48.300 I don't know you, buddy.

01:22:49.460 But what about friends?

01:22:50.840 That's the hard part was the, the people that like immediately backed away from me and

01:22:57.280 my family.

01:22:57.840 Like that was hard.

01:22:58.780 Like bands that I loved and traveled with just kind of.

01:23:01.700 Fuck them.

01:23:01.840 And yeah, not, not like, you know, scorched the earth, like I don't know him, but just

01:23:07.120 kind of, you know, backed away.

01:23:08.600 But for me, yeah, that was brutal for me and my whole family.

01:23:13.500 But the people that stuck around and the new people that I've met, like meeting people

01:23:19.480 like you and Carter and working with you guys, like every time you send a new song, I'm

01:23:23.680 excited.

01:23:24.220 Cause I'm like, I mean, dude, we're, I, we're lucky.

01:23:26.860 It's, it's like, my mom was laughing.

01:23:31.140 She was like, I can't believe that the offspring drummer is, is, is working with you guys.

01:23:35.580 Like, because she's like, you're 13 years old, you know, with your squire, little hundred

01:23:41.440 dollar guitar playing offspring songs.

01:23:43.220 And now whatever is going on in this world serendipitously just ends up with like you

01:23:49.100 sitting here and, and we, we worked on songs together.

01:23:51.860 Yeah.

01:23:52.300 It's crazy.

01:23:53.160 I, I feel like the world must be a simulation because how in the hell is that possible?

01:23:57.960 Yeah.

01:23:58.380 Well, that's the thing about, you know, speaking out too, is like you, you find your people.

01:24:04.740 Like, you know, I have a new, a new band coming out this year with Dickie Barrett from Mighty

01:24:10.040 Mighty Boss Tones, Greg Camp from Smash Mouth, Johnny Rio from Street Dogs and Joey Briggs

01:24:14.860 or Joey LaBroca from the Briggs and.

01:24:17.560 Super group.

01:24:18.080 Super group, right?

01:24:19.120 Like the Traveling Wilburys.

01:24:20.520 Yeah.

01:24:20.840 But it, you know, comes, I get a phone call from Dickie last April and he's like, hey,

01:24:26.420 saw your story.

01:24:27.320 He went through a similar thing.

01:24:28.780 You know, he was the announcer on Jimmy Kimmel, got let go over Vax mandate stuff.

01:24:34.800 And he's like, I feel like we should do something together.

01:24:38.020 And he's like, you know, do you know Greg Camp?

01:24:39.800 And I was like, well, I know of him.

01:24:41.160 And he's like, well, he lives in Nashville too.

01:24:43.600 He goes, I don't know why.

01:24:44.740 I think the three of us, like, that's how Dickie is.

01:24:46.740 He's just like, I feel like this could be something.

01:24:49.220 You calling the band the anti-vaxxers?

01:24:50.920 Right.

01:24:51.300 Yeah.

01:24:51.640 Or Dickie Barrett.

01:24:52.740 I had to say it.

01:24:53.560 You just gave Rolling Stone their headline.

01:24:55.440 No, it's called The Defiant.

01:24:57.600 And so we just finished up mixing and I'm hoping to get the record out this summer.

01:25:02.140 Awesome.

01:25:02.500 But it's, it's, it's rad.

01:25:03.920 Yeah.

01:25:04.020 I got to play some of it for you today.

01:25:05.580 Yeah.

01:25:05.900 Super cool.

01:25:07.240 But again, like reinvigorating my love for playing music and being a part of something

01:25:14.060 like, and I was thinking, I'm like, I'm always the, the drummer that gets brought in when

01:25:18.400 someone's getting replaced.

01:25:19.460 Like, you know, I was not the original drummer in Face to Face.

01:25:21.800 I was not the original drummer in Saves the Day.

01:25:24.060 Certainly not the real drummer in Offspring, right?

01:25:25.960 Like you're always filling in.

01:25:28.620 That wasn't even, was it Scott Welty?

01:25:30.700 What was his name?

01:25:31.200 Ron Welty.

01:25:31.700 Ron Welty.

01:25:32.560 Scott, I don't know.

01:25:33.220 But he wasn't even the original either, I think, right?

01:25:35.120 Yeah.

01:25:35.360 I mean, he was, he's the only one on the records.

01:25:37.760 There was another guy, James, before him.

01:25:39.700 Yeah.

01:25:39.940 And then he like dipped out of the band and boy, was that a mistake?

01:25:42.600 Yeah.

01:25:42.820 I think he's the doctor.

01:25:43.860 I think he's doing fine.

01:25:45.040 Yeah.

01:25:45.340 You know, people got to make the choices they, they want.

01:25:47.520 The defiant is your new thing.

01:25:50.540 Yeah.

01:25:50.720 That's the thing, man.

01:25:52.840 You speak up and you, like you said, you find your community because people are looking

01:25:58.680 for allies and people are looking for genuine people.

01:26:02.620 Yeah.

01:26:02.900 And, and to me, I'm like, it was painful when people like would walk away from me over this

01:26:08.660 and you're like, this is one issue you've known me this long.

01:26:11.920 Like, you know, some of my closest people in my life do not agree with me on any of this

01:26:19.420 stuff.

01:26:19.740 They don't feel the same way about me at all.

01:26:22.100 And we are fine.

01:26:23.680 Like we, you know, we don't have to agree on this.

01:26:26.500 One thing doesn't have to ruin your entire relationship.

01:26:28.980 Like you can have a mutual respect and not just be dismissive of someone.

01:26:34.360 This is the weirdest thing.

01:26:35.680 When I'm, when I'm a kid and I'm in Chicago, my family is from the city.

01:26:39.160 Well, my, my, my parents are not from Chicago.

01:26:41.740 They're, you know, my dad's from Texas.

01:26:43.060 My mom's from St.

01:26:44.140 Louis and then a kind of a mixture of a bunch of places.

01:26:45.760 But I grew up in the city in Chicago.

01:26:49.160 That's where I, that's where I like in the city limits.

01:26:51.380 We go to the suburbs for family events and we're, we're, we're Chicago Democrats.

01:26:56.100 We go to a family friend and they're Naperville Republicans and everybody gets along.

01:27:01.320 And the worst thing you'd hear is like, we'd be driving and they would be like, well, they're

01:27:05.960 Republicans, but you know, and that's like, as, as, as snarky as it would get to be like,

01:27:10.360 we'd be talking about something and then someone would look a chuckle.

01:27:13.580 We'd go there, their yard sign would have some Republican name on it.

01:27:16.320 Nobody cared.

01:27:17.100 Yeah.

01:27:17.280 It was just like, well, you know, that's their thing.

01:27:19.060 And then we would have, you know, cheesy nacho dip and drinks and whatever the family party

01:27:24.680 was.

01:27:25.260 Now it's like you get people calling you crying, like, why are you voting for Trump?

01:27:31.180 What is that?

01:27:31.660 And you're like, what's, what is, what is this?

01:27:33.600 Like, isn't it really weird that it's like the people who voted for Trump are the less

01:27:39.300 likely to have emotional outbursts over politics?

01:27:43.760 That's what I've found.

01:27:44.640 I mean, there's this, I don't know, I'm sure you've seen this meme and there's like a stick

01:27:48.480 of people and there's a guy standing in the middle on the line going like, well, I think

01:27:51.760 both sides make valid points.

01:27:53.840 And the blue person gets mad and pushes them over the line and the red person catches them

01:27:58.840 and the blue person's like, you're crazy.

01:28:00.800 And the red guy's like, Hey, you all right?

01:28:02.420 Yeah.

01:28:02.580 Like that's kind of been my experience here is, is, you know, we have a lot of conservative

01:28:08.380 friends.

01:28:08.920 We have a lot of liberal friends.

01:28:10.280 We've lost a lot of liberal friends, but they were never your friends to begin with

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01:29:39.380 Did I mention that we care?

01:29:40.760 I think, I mean, I would hope most people now, a year and a half later, seeing everything

01:29:48.720 that's come out are like, oh, all right, they're not crazy.

01:29:52.460 Oh, they're, you know, they just felt differently about this.

01:29:54.860 And it's, to me, that's the, that's another hard thing about this situation is you, you're

01:30:00.860 screamed at and called crazy and, and shadow ban and blacklisted and this and that.

01:30:05.540 And then as more information comes out, then it's like, well, I feel like we've all said

01:30:10.400 things that we regret.

01:30:12.000 And it's just like, I don't, I'm okay with it.

01:30:15.020 So to me, I'm like, just, just own it.

01:30:17.480 If you feel good about your stance on that, like, yeah, we're not going to work with anybody

01:30:22.020 that won't do this thing, then that's cool.

01:30:25.200 Then I didn't own that.

01:30:26.740 I had a friend tell me recently, well, I think the COVID started with the, with the wet market.

01:30:34.100 And this was like three weeks ago.

01:30:35.600 And I was like, really?

01:30:37.720 I'm not going to be mean.

01:30:38.740 But after all this time, look, when the, when the, when the story first emerged, I'm, I'm

01:30:44.160 the fence sitter guy where I'm like, look, give me proof evidence.

01:30:47.060 I don't want to make definitive statements unless I know for sure.

01:30:49.140 Cause I don't want to come out and tell you something, no, this is it and be wrong.

01:30:52.820 But it's like, you got a bio lab in this city and the virus emerges within a couple of miles

01:30:58.560 of it.

01:30:59.500 And they tried claiming it was a wet market.

01:31:01.160 And I'm just kind of like, okay, well, I mean, it's possible for sure.

01:31:03.540 I'm not going to pretend to be a virologist or anything, but I mean, it sounds like it could

01:31:06.920 have come from a lab, especially with the gain of function research stuff.

01:31:09.640 Why is it that after all this time, someone would still try and maintain that position?

01:31:15.300 Like sheepishly, I just don't understand.

01:31:17.280 And do you really believe that?

01:31:20.680 Cause I kind of feel like not, not to just go back into the COVID stuff, but I feel like

01:31:26.020 a lot of people are just saying what they hope is the right thing to say around other

01:31:29.400 people.

01:31:29.860 Yes.

01:31:30.820 Yeah.

01:31:31.020 Instead of just like, look, man, I'll say what I think, you know, and I'll try to be respectful

01:31:37.200 as much as I can.

01:31:38.280 But yeah.

01:31:38.720 I mean, in my experience from, you know, the messages that I got online from people

01:31:43.700 that are like, man, really support what you're saying.

01:31:46.180 Wish I could do the same.

01:31:47.300 And it's kind of like, well, there's nothing stopping you, but.

01:31:51.100 Well, yeah.

01:31:51.440 Did you, uh, did you see the story of Matt Strickland?

01:31:53.980 We had him on Timcast IRL.

01:31:55.260 He's, uh, he owns Gore Melts in Virginia and I recommend everybody go, uh, to that.

01:32:01.180 If you're in the area, amazing food.

01:32:03.280 When the lockdowns happened, he said, these are unconstitutional.

01:32:05.680 You can't do this.

01:32:06.600 So no, they said, we will destroy you.

01:32:09.060 And he said, bring it.

01:32:10.340 And they, they shut him down.

01:32:11.900 And just a few months ago, they surrounded his building.

01:32:14.420 This is like the mandates are gone.

01:32:15.900 They surround his building.

01:32:17.400 All these different law enforcement officers come and they seize all his alcohol.

01:32:20.460 And then he has to go, uh, to go to war over it.

01:32:24.520 He ends up winning in the long run.

01:32:26.280 You know, he's like, how is this is Virginia?

01:32:28.120 You got Youngkin as governor.

01:32:29.140 How are they still doing this coming after him?

01:32:30.820 Even though the mandates have long been done.

01:32:32.680 And he says, I get phone calls from other restaurateurs and business owners saying,

01:32:37.260 thank you so much for what you did.

01:32:38.760 How can I help?

01:32:39.480 And he says, speak up and stand up.

01:32:41.980 And they go, oh, well, I can't do that.

01:32:43.680 Right.

01:32:44.040 Can't do that.

01:32:44.820 Wish I could.

01:32:45.640 Wish I could.

01:32:46.280 But you, Pete, you have to be the, uh,

01:32:50.460 Spartacus.

01:32:52.180 Well, that's the thing.

01:32:53.140 Like, I don't, you know me, I'm pretty quiet.

01:32:56.360 Like I haven't talked to anybody in a year and a half about anything.

01:32:59.900 Like, I don't want to be the lightning rod for anything.

01:33:03.460 You know, my point was like, Hey, I'm, I'm out of work.

01:33:07.620 Does anyone need a drummer?

01:33:08.860 Right.

01:33:09.220 You know, but in it's, like I said, I don't,

01:33:14.880 I know it's not for everybody to come out and say like, Hey, I don't agree with this.

01:33:19.380 This doesn't seem right.

01:33:21.200 It's, it does cost something, you know, and people are like, Oh, I don't, you know,

01:33:25.320 everybody wants to be on board with like, I don't feel this is right, but nobody wants

01:33:33.280 it to cost them anything.

01:33:34.200 And it's, and it will cost you something.

01:33:35.860 I got to give a shout out to Mark White.

01:33:38.600 I talked to him very briefly a while ago, but his story is very similar to yours.

01:33:43.940 Mark White is the basis from the spin doctors and he got fired in 2022 for refusing to receive

01:33:51.020 the COVID vaccine.

01:33:52.500 I'm not so sure his full story though.

01:33:55.640 Like, I, uh, let me see if I can find it.

01:33:58.200 And, uh, I don't know.

01:34:00.880 It doesn't really explain the full details, but it just says he split from the band February

01:34:05.240 of 2022.

01:34:06.880 I mean, I don't know how big this, the, the spin doctors are or anything like that.

01:34:11.240 Like the offspring, like, like we were saying earlier, have the most sold, like most highest

01:34:18.200 selling independent album in history and it will like never be beat.

01:34:22.200 That's like a big deal.

01:34:23.360 Despite the fact that I don't think the offspring is like Taylor Swift level or anything like

01:34:26.940 that, but they still have that.

01:34:28.180 Like, I don't know.

01:34:28.980 Is the offspring in the rock and roll hall of fame?

01:34:30.600 No, no.

01:34:31.960 I feel like they should be though.

01:34:33.120 I mean, they're huge.

01:34:34.200 Yeah.

01:34:34.380 I mean, I don't know how you are the, have the biggest selling indie album of all time

01:34:39.160 and you're not considered, but you know, that stuff's pretty political.

01:34:42.200 But yeah, the spin doctors aren't, uh, like people know the spin doctors are, they have

01:34:46.620 that one song.

01:34:47.380 What is it called?

01:34:48.040 I don't know.

01:34:48.300 Two princes.

01:34:49.180 Two princes.

01:34:49.780 Yeah.

01:34:50.080 Yeah.

01:34:50.360 That's right.

01:34:50.760 That's right.

01:34:51.520 But the funny thing about all of this is it felt like what scares me about modern culture,

01:34:57.300 I grew up on superheroes, on Batman, you know, Batman's cool dude, Spider-Man, he's cool

01:35:02.120 dude too.

01:35:02.520 And, uh, I am Spartacus, right?

01:35:06.120 The, I am Spartacus.

01:35:07.400 No, I am Spartacus.

01:35:08.620 And they all stand up together.

01:35:10.260 And now what we have is, he's Spartacus.

01:35:13.960 No, he's Spartacus.

01:35:15.040 No, I'm not.

01:35:15.860 He's Spartacus.

01:35:17.200 Don't look at me.

01:35:18.520 And then eventually it's like this meek guy in the back who's like, I'm Spartacus dude.

01:35:23.020 And then they all back away and say, thank you so much for doing this for us.

01:35:26.860 And then you get carried away, be burned at the stake.

01:35:28.980 Right.

01:35:29.140 We're going to be over here continuing our lives as, as previously scheduled, but thank

01:35:35.760 you.

01:35:36.020 I don't know how we, uh, how do you solve for that problem culturally?

01:35:41.160 Because it feels like we have got, uh, like, I don't know how to describe it, a dead generation

01:35:47.880 almost.

01:35:49.320 And maybe it's this, uh, Strauss how generational theory, you know, the fourth turning for those

01:35:55.500 that aren't familiar, the general idea is strong men make good times, good times make weak men,

01:36:00.800 weak men make hard times, hard times make strong men.

01:36:04.120 And we've had this period since the end of World War II where things have been moderately

01:36:08.700 improving.

01:36:09.340 I mean, Vietnam, the Cold War, all were relatively bad conflict in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea,

01:36:14.760 et cetera.

01:36:14.980 But then you get to this point in the late eighties of the fall of Soviet Union where

01:36:17.960 everything's just too good, too good.

01:36:20.780 And so we get this generation that grows up with everything being just as good as good

01:36:26.100 can be.

01:36:27.600 And you end up with everyone saying, why would I take any risks whatsoever?

01:36:31.940 Yeah.

01:36:32.360 Yeah.

01:36:32.700 I'm, I'm pretty comfortable over here.

01:36:34.820 Yeah.

01:36:35.100 Why, why would I want any, any of this to change?

01:36:37.820 I just want, and I, I get people's reaction of the last couple of years.

01:36:42.440 Like, you know, it, fear will do a lot.

01:36:45.620 And if it's ramped up and forced on your throat all day long, be afraid, be afraid, be afraid.

01:36:50.180 Then yeah, you get to the point where you're like, I just want my life back.

01:36:53.380 If this is what I have to do, or this is what I have to take, I'll do it.

01:36:56.000 Like, give me my life back.

01:36:57.140 And it's like, that's so weird to me.

01:36:58.620 Yeah.

01:36:58.880 But now you, I'm not so attached.

01:37:00.580 Yeah.

01:37:01.020 But I want to look at these same people now and go, did you get your life back?

01:37:05.200 Yeah.

01:37:05.520 Like, is it, has it changed or did you get anything that you lost during this period?

01:37:11.140 Did it all come back?

01:37:12.980 Cause you, you checked every box.

01:37:15.400 It didn't work out.

01:37:16.240 You did what they told.

01:37:17.780 Did you get it all back?

01:37:19.360 I mean, would you feel like you're doing better than ever at this point?

01:37:23.040 Personally?

01:37:23.520 Yeah.

01:37:24.160 Yeah.

01:37:24.640 Like it really worked out for you.

01:37:25.920 Yeah.

01:37:26.600 Financially, you know, no, I mean, you make that kind of money.

01:37:29.840 Like that's, that's, that's hard to, to recreate.

01:37:32.640 But man, I creatively, like, I feel like a new person.

01:37:37.860 Like every, every day I get up, I go down to my studio.

01:37:41.000 I'm working on something.

01:37:41.800 I'm writing songs.

01:37:42.600 I'm tracking drums for somebody like all over the world.

01:37:45.500 The EP with a guy from Australia.

01:37:47.080 I just played a pop punk song for this guy from Italy.

01:37:51.440 That's in Italian.

01:37:52.260 I don't even know what he's singing about.

01:37:53.460 I did that the other day.

01:37:54.480 Like, you know, really bad.

01:37:56.580 What the words?

01:37:57.480 He's like, he's like singing about the bringing back Mussolini or something.

01:38:00.080 Man, I hope not.

01:38:01.360 It's a, it's a pretty, it's a pretty major chord positive song.

01:38:05.400 So that would be, that would be rough.

01:38:07.320 It would be a weird.

01:38:08.600 Yeah.

01:38:09.680 Mussolini.

01:38:10.320 I'm just back there drumming like that.

01:38:11.600 Bring him back.

01:38:12.400 Didn't know.

01:38:13.060 Yeah.

01:38:13.280 Yeah.

01:38:13.560 Working with Defiant, working with you guys.

01:38:15.360 Like it, to me, it's like, I didn't, you know, sometimes you don't realize how stunted

01:38:21.760 you are creatively or until, until you get away from something.

01:38:27.220 And then you're like, oh, yeah, I guess, you know, it was a lot of good there, but there

01:38:32.080 was a lot of ways that I felt incomplete or, you know, underutilized and, and, you know.

01:38:38.280 Like when you're, when you're playing with the Offspring, was it a lot, hey, here are the

01:38:41.660 drums we want, play this?

01:38:43.180 Yeah.

01:38:43.500 I mean, any, any situation like that, there's a bit of a script and it wasn't like, you

01:38:49.220 know, don't go, don't color outside the lines at all.

01:38:52.320 Like, but I, I, I was pretty good at knowing where I could put a little bit of myself in

01:38:58.020 and pretty good.

01:38:59.140 And as a listener too, like you don't want to pull the audience out of a song.

01:39:03.440 Like if they're waiting for that drum fill from that hit from 25 years ago and all of a

01:39:08.360 sudden you throw in some buddy rich jazz fill.

01:39:11.020 No, nobody wants that.

01:39:13.000 I hate that about live shows when the singers deviate.

01:39:15.800 I can understand it when the singer is, there's like a part of a song with a high note and then

01:39:19.960 they pull it low because they're stressed or strained or whatever.

01:39:23.020 I get it.

01:39:23.660 But I really just don't like the artistic, you know, oh, I'm going to try and totally

01:39:27.880 different melody.

01:39:28.600 It's like, no, like the hook is what makes me like your song, man.

01:39:31.080 Yeah.

01:39:31.460 Don't, don't pull me out of it.

01:39:32.840 Yeah.

01:39:33.220 I get that.

01:39:34.740 And so I think there's a responsibility there.

01:39:37.980 And, but yeah, when you're, when you're hired in that position, yeah, you, you stick to

01:39:44.180 the script.

01:39:44.700 You, you do.

01:39:45.820 Have you been following all this AI stuff?

01:39:48.300 I'm kind of fascinated by it and like the implications for it musically.

01:39:53.200 I don't even know.

01:39:54.300 That's what I was interested in, you know, cause you've, you've got decades in the industry

01:39:58.100 watching all this.

01:39:59.260 We've already gone into the air of like, I mean, drum machines have been around forever.

01:40:03.380 For sure.

01:40:03.800 I think that was the thing with like the Smashing Pumpkins.

01:40:05.760 They, uh, originally were playing with a drum machine and then they had some guy be like,

01:40:10.300 look, get a real drummer and you guys are a hit.

01:40:12.380 But drum machines have been around forever and they've been getting better and better.

01:40:15.140 And now a lot of bands don't even use real drums because what is it?

01:40:20.280 Didn't you do a thing where like all of your drums can be purchased?

01:40:23.500 Like the sounds?

01:40:24.440 Yep.

01:40:24.800 Yeah.

01:40:25.040 So on splice.com, you can go and purchase my Pete Parada's toolkit, pop punk sound pack,

01:40:31.560 which is 350 snippets and loops and different beats from, from that era, late nineties,

01:40:39.900 early two thousands, pop punk stuff like that feel.

01:40:42.680 So all different, uh, tempos, fills, feels, you can piece a whole song together.

01:40:47.340 The Italian guy that just hit me up, he bought my sound pack and made the song and he's like,

01:40:51.320 Hey, I'd like you to do a whole custom track.

01:40:53.820 You know, I like this.

01:40:54.700 So, you know, worked from there, but yeah, you can take that stuff.

01:40:57.720 It sounds like I played on your song.

01:40:59.960 That's crazy.

01:41:00.460 Yeah.

01:41:00.900 So there's so much stuff out there where you can, I mean, even there's single snare

01:41:05.260 hits, Tom hits, you can take pieces of my kit and put it together.

01:41:08.440 It'll sound like me.

01:41:09.360 I think Carter did that.

01:41:10.440 Yeah.

01:41:10.960 So, uh, I, I don't know for which song, but some of the songs that we're working on are

01:41:17.600 more produced in like a little bit of electronic and stuff.

01:41:21.420 And so I'm pretty sure he like, he takes the sound clip from you playing and then just.

01:41:26.380 Yeah.

01:41:26.600 Move it around.

01:41:27.060 Yeah.

01:41:27.560 Pastes it and edits it.

01:41:28.640 And it's like making these, these hits that it sounds like you're playing and he's playing

01:41:35.020 for you.

01:41:35.960 It's kind of a, it's kind of crazy.

01:41:37.440 So here's what I find interesting, you know, being a drummer, you've been experiencing the

01:41:43.440 replacement of drums with drum machines for a long time, but now we're moving into AI

01:41:48.700 voices and we're getting really close to just literally replacing every member of the band.

01:41:54.840 And we're probably really close to the point where you can go to an AI and say, AI, play

01:41:59.720 me a pop punk song about breaking up with my girlfriend.

01:42:04.000 And then it will just make this like pop punk emo song.

01:42:08.180 I know.

01:42:09.000 I mean, to me, I'm like, are we heading to a place where, you know, I can write a song

01:42:15.000 on guitar and go, wow, that sounds like an Amy Mann song.

01:42:18.280 And tell AI, here's my song.

01:42:20.860 Here's my melody.

01:42:21.600 Can you replace my voice with Amy Mann's voice?

01:42:23.980 Like, you know, will I have this song that in my head I can hear it, but there's no way

01:42:27.600 in hell I can get her to sing on it.

01:42:29.420 But, you know, are we, are we headed to that?

01:42:32.340 Like that's.

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01:43:40.160 to tell our clients that we really care about you.

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01:43:56.840 Did I mention that we care?

01:43:58.320 Scary, like I was listening to Kevin Smith's podcast and they were talking about AI from

01:44:07.000 a filmmaking standpoint.

01:44:08.980 And their point was, yes, you can take, you know, the script for the Terminator and Star

01:44:16.740 Wars and Deadpool and throw them into a AI and say, make, spit me out a new story, but

01:44:23.240 will, and you'll get a very generic version back, will AI be able to add the nuance that

01:44:30.660 a writer would like, oh, well, this character has this tweak or this, you know, and that's

01:44:34.620 what I'm wondering, like, because once we hit that, I think that's terrible.

01:44:39.420 But even for now, what I think they'll do is they'll say, AI, write me a song.

01:44:45.160 I want it in this tempo, in this style, with this kind of vocals.

01:44:48.460 You'll get back an 80% version and then you'll say, okay, let's clean this up, put that little

01:44:55.140 twist on it, we're good.

01:44:56.040 Yeah, I'll take it from here.

01:44:57.140 Yeah, there was a service that I was screwing around with that does AI song generation.

01:45:01.440 And it's rudimentary.

01:45:02.540 What they have is they have a basic algorithmic drum machine.

01:45:06.560 They have basic algorithmic synth.

01:45:09.320 So it's fairly rudimentary.

01:45:10.860 But you could go in and say, I want rock.

01:45:14.520 I want hard rock.

01:45:16.000 I want it to be moderately fast and aggressive.

01:45:20.000 And then it will give you 60% of a song and that's your starting point.

01:45:25.040 And you can say, oh, that's pretty good.

01:45:26.120 Okay, now let me finish it off, fill it out and put that hook in it.

01:45:29.760 Yeah, I don't know.

01:45:31.060 I mean, for me, like, I'm both fascinated and terrified by it.

01:45:34.960 Because, like, interesting that that could happen, but kind of takes the fun out of it.

01:45:41.020 You know, if I wake up in the morning with an idea for a song and I run downstairs and

01:45:44.720 I start voice memoing before it disappears, and then I, by the end of the day, I can have

01:45:49.000 recorded the whole thing.

01:45:51.020 That's exciting for me.

01:45:52.340 If I wake up and go, computer, write me a song, 160 beats per minute, make it aggressive,

01:45:58.420 you know, or write me a...

01:46:00.240 I'm sad today.

01:46:00.560 Write me a ballad.

01:46:01.580 Right, write me a country song, include screen door, pickup truck, dirt road, go.

01:46:06.880 And it's there, baby.

01:46:08.420 Like, I just...

01:46:09.620 You know what really scares me about this is the feedback loop.

01:46:12.400 Because what we currently have is...

01:46:16.040 This is an apocalypse scenario.

01:46:18.320 Do you know what the gray goo apocalypse is?

01:46:20.460 No.

01:46:21.280 So gray goo references, like, nanobots.

01:46:23.620 Okay.

01:46:23.940 And they'll start consuming matter and self-replicating until the point where you have so many nanobots,

01:46:30.560 it's a gray goo, eating everything and creating more of itself until the planet's destroyed,

01:46:34.980 right?

01:46:35.360 Okay.

01:46:35.740 I feel like we have a digital version of that coming where humans have created all of this

01:46:40.700 culture.

01:46:41.620 And we have this library on the internet of all these different ideas.

01:46:45.700 Because...

01:46:46.140 So we build things like ChatGPT.

01:46:49.180 And what it does is it's a predictive text model that when you ask it a question, all

01:46:55.680 it does is calculate the likelihood of a word occurring after another word.

01:46:59.220 So it sounds like it's giving you smart insight or whatever.

01:47:02.400 Right.

01:47:03.100 But what happens when we start writing songs with AI, making movies with AI?

01:47:08.340 The input to the AI becomes itself, right?

01:47:12.540 Right.

01:47:12.880 So if you have a predictive text model writing a script, it's writing a script based off of

01:47:18.000 what humans created.

01:47:19.840 But after 10 years of this, the AI will be programmed to produce scripts based off the

01:47:25.820 scripts it wrote.

01:47:26.840 It wrote.

01:47:27.260 Yeah.

01:47:27.500 And so when you make a copy of a copy of a copy, eventually you're going to get...

01:47:30.640 Well, you've erased humanity entirely.

01:47:32.340 Yeah.

01:47:32.960 And then humans are going to be broken-brained individuals who have no understanding because

01:47:38.320 the AI, like, so there's a viral post where someone tells ChatGPT 2 plus 2 equals 5.

01:47:46.280 And it says, no, that's wrong.

01:47:47.280 It's 4.

01:47:47.600 And go, no, you're wrong.

01:47:48.460 I'm telling you it's 5.

01:47:49.300 And it goes, okay, I'm sorry.

01:47:50.420 It's 5.

01:47:51.820 You're going to get that kind of stuff.

01:47:53.200 Yeah.

01:47:53.440 And then what happens when the input models break?

01:47:56.920 Like, a year from now, ChatGPT genuinely believes 2 plus 2 is 5.

01:48:01.500 10 years from now, there's kids who are like, computer, what's 2 plus 2?

01:48:04.880 5.

01:48:05.140 And they go, okay.

01:48:06.040 Right.

01:48:06.760 And they'll never know because the AI runs everything.

01:48:09.660 I think the only outcome there is total collapse of civilization if we become reliant on AI.

01:48:16.680 But I mean, I feel like that's what we already do with our media.

01:48:19.420 Like, we push a narrative.

01:48:21.200 Like, well, here's this thing.

01:48:22.540 Is that really true?

01:48:23.560 We're saying it's true.

01:48:24.420 And it gets repeated enough.

01:48:27.340 And then you ask somebody, hey, what do you feel about that?

01:48:29.460 Well, it's this and this and this.

01:48:31.200 Yeah.

01:48:31.260 Why do you know that?

01:48:32.000 Well, I saw it on the news.

01:48:33.660 Yeah.

01:48:33.860 It's like, what if I told you that's not true?

01:48:36.000 Well, it can't be.

01:48:37.560 Have you ever heard of cytogenesis?

01:48:39.680 No.

01:48:40.560 There's a...

01:48:41.340 You ever see the comic XKCD?

01:48:43.100 Mm-mm.

01:48:44.320 It's this...

01:48:45.340 This guy's kind of...

01:48:46.920 He's a bit of an insufferable intellectual type.

01:48:49.300 But he's got some good takes.

01:48:50.180 He's got some good takes.

01:48:50.880 And this one is how Wikipedia fabricates information.

01:48:55.200 And so the joke he uses is the invention of the scroll lock key on a keyboard.

01:49:00.440 And he says, what happens is somebody, for no reason, goes on Wikipedia and makes up a fake fact and just puts it in there.

01:49:07.120 The scroll lock key was invented by so-and-so in 1970.

01:49:09.200 A journalist who's writing a story looking for a quick reference will go to Wikipedia, see it, and then say, oh, okay, and write it into their article without fact-checking.

01:49:19.500 Someone will then go on Wikipedia and say, what is this?

01:49:22.900 There's no citation on here.

01:49:24.320 They'll grab the article that was just written, attach it to the fact.

01:49:28.140 Oh, it's a citation.

01:49:28.780 Creating this, yeah, cytogenesis.

01:49:30.880 And they'll be like, Google is your friend, guys.

01:49:33.480 Use sources.

01:49:34.360 And then they'll use the...

01:49:36.360 So I feel like we're already in the death spiral.

01:49:40.040 Yeah.

01:49:40.440 I mean, that feels like what we've been living in already, especially the last three years.

01:49:44.300 Yeah.

01:49:45.100 And the crazy thing about it is, for me, I do news commentary and then a news commentary show with guests.

01:49:49.780 And I tell people all the time, like, you realize I'm reading the mainstream media.

01:49:53.420 It's like, I read the New York Times.

01:49:55.180 I don't necessarily trust them all the time.

01:49:57.220 So I'll try and fact-check and look for multiple sources.

01:49:59.720 And if multiple sources are saying something happened, we can only operate under the assumption it happened.

01:50:04.120 But holy crap, that's not always true.

01:50:07.040 Like with the Covington kids in the Lincoln Memorial.

01:50:10.400 Every major outlet said, you remember the story, right?

01:50:12.400 The kid standing on the steps in the Lincoln Memorial and the Native American guy.

01:50:16.040 Oh, yeah, I remember that.

01:50:16.880 Every major outlet says, this kid did something bad.

01:50:20.140 All the major outlets say, Kyle Rittenhouse was like a murder or whatever.

01:50:23.360 And you have to actually look for the source material and break through.

01:50:27.220 But this means, you know, I can't read every single academic report.

01:50:31.100 I can't watch every single video.

01:50:32.400 We're already here.

01:50:33.480 Even the people you think are doing the best jobs possible are trapped in the same maelstrom as everybody else.

01:50:39.720 And we're getting flushed down the toilet.

01:50:40.880 Yeah, well, and they're trapped in it and also kind of beholden to, this is the narrative that we are going with.

01:50:49.760 You don't want to be on the wrong side of this.

01:50:51.640 Look at what happens to those people.

01:50:53.120 They're over there in the corner of shame.

01:50:55.580 Yeah.

01:50:55.780 I mean, that sounds like Mao Cultural Revolution stuff.

01:50:58.300 Yeah.

01:50:59.080 You know, this podcast is called The Culture War.

01:51:01.200 But I wasn't like literally intending on it to talk about nothing but the culture war.

01:51:05.940 But I just feel like it's going to happen with everybody.

01:51:09.580 There's going to be some element of it where every conversation is going to mention.

01:51:13.520 I'm hoping that if enough people say, hey, that's kind of fucked up, that people are all marching in lockstep.

01:51:19.600 We need some original thought.

01:51:20.960 Maybe that'll be the path forward.

01:51:23.120 But that requires people to say, I am Spartacus.

01:51:25.900 You know what I mean?

01:51:26.660 Yeah.

01:51:26.860 And not just point at you and be like, you be Spartacus.

01:51:29.040 I'll be over here hiding in the bushes.

01:51:30.320 Yeah.

01:51:30.440 That's enough.

01:51:30.960 You keep going.

01:51:32.140 Yeah.

01:51:32.600 That's the weirdest thing about it.

01:51:33.940 Looks like you can take it.

01:51:35.720 It's like, yeah, but it's lonely.

01:51:38.380 You know, be nice to spread the slaps around a little bit.

01:51:41.200 Yeah.

01:51:41.680 I wonder if the end result of all of this is people like you, people like me, people who are listening to a show like this, the ones who are willing to speak out, speak up, or at the very least prepare.

01:51:51.400 All of the people who are just going to say whatever they think they have to say will end up in a really bad position.

01:51:57.060 I mean, I remember at the beginning of the pandemic, this is hilarious, I did my first ad for safeandreadymeals.com, which is like emergency food prep.

01:52:07.100 And instantly you get corporate press mocking me.

01:52:10.660 Vice is like, Tim Pool's a prepper.

01:52:12.180 Look how corny and cringe this is.

01:52:14.340 And I'm just like, I don't care.

01:52:17.760 You know?

01:52:18.000 I actually, it makes me laugh.

01:52:22.520 If you are of such weak mind that you would not have a first aid kit, water, or food because someone got made fun of and you're scared of being made fun of, you will die when a blizzard comes.

01:52:34.980 Like they got in California seven feet of snow in some areas and like 14 feet in some areas.

01:52:39.380 I saw this clip of a dude opens his door and it's a wall of snow.

01:52:42.780 I'm like, I bet he'd be really excited he's got some beans in his pantry that are going to last him a couple months if he needs to eat them.

01:52:47.380 A couple of bags of rice.

01:52:48.520 Yeah.

01:52:49.700 But there are people who are scared of being made fun of.

01:52:52.360 Right.

01:52:52.860 So they'll be like, I didn't buy any emergency supplies.

01:52:55.840 I'm not a weirdo.

01:52:56.940 It's like, okay, well, you know, I don't care.

01:52:58.700 You'll die.

01:52:59.120 I won't.

01:52:59.680 But that's how you get in trouble is everybody like, well, you don't want to get called crazy.

01:53:03.460 You know, you don't want to get labeled an anti-vaxxer.

01:53:06.060 That's the worst thing you can be.

01:53:07.180 That's worse than any other term.

01:53:09.080 And it's just kind of like, it's a stupid term.

01:53:11.700 Yeah.

01:53:11.860 You know, but if you need to label people, but yeah, you don't want to be prepared.

01:53:15.860 Like you don't have a first aid kit.

01:53:17.240 You don't have some water.

01:53:18.160 Like that's just, that should just be standard of living.

01:53:21.720 I think people need to realize that you can't win with the cult, even if you bend the knee.

01:53:26.160 So like the story I've told several times on Timcast IRL, when I got COVID, the doctor,

01:53:32.520 I had prescribed antibodies, monoclonal antibodies, steroids as an emergency for, you know, inflammation

01:53:40.780 in the lungs if we needed, we never used it, but they also prescribed ivermectin.

01:53:44.300 And I've not, I've not been convinced that ivermectin works.

01:53:47.380 I'm still not.

01:53:48.360 There was a recent, there's like, there's this prominent journalist who's very critical

01:53:51.340 of big pharma and vaccines.

01:53:53.040 He's been censored several times.

01:53:54.380 I don't want to drag him into it, so I won't say his name, but even he's come out and said

01:53:57.020 like, look, another meta-analysis of ivermectin is showing nothing.

01:54:00.960 So anyway, I'm not here to get into that whole debate, but the doctor prescribed it.

01:54:05.200 And I said, I do what my doctor said.

01:54:06.460 Okay.

01:54:06.860 I trust my doctor.

01:54:08.660 And after I got the monoclonal antibodies, because I got that in an emergency, like right

01:54:14.300 away, I ended up getting the ivermectin a few days later, but I felt totally fine.

01:54:19.620 Right.

01:54:20.080 And so I said to my doctor, I don't want to take it.

01:54:22.600 I was like, honestly, I don't think I need it.

01:54:25.480 I don't want to take anything if I'm feeling good.

01:54:27.640 Like, so if I'm good now, I'd rather just not take medication.

01:54:31.260 And the doctor said, if you relapse, which has happened, if you get sick again, you will

01:54:37.200 regret that you did not follow my prescription.

01:54:40.420 So take the medication I told you to take.

01:54:42.380 And I said, fair point.

01:54:43.820 Okay, doc, you're right.

01:54:44.600 And then the media called me the poster boy of ivermectin.

01:54:48.980 Of course.

01:54:49.340 And I'm like, what is this?

01:54:51.200 Like, you can't even win.

01:54:52.200 You agree with them and they will still attack you.

01:54:56.320 Everybody is primed to hate something.

01:54:59.060 And if they've decided that you are on the list of people to be hated, they will find

01:55:03.360 a reason to come after you.

01:55:04.940 It doesn't matter.

01:55:06.140 It's so boring.

01:55:07.700 There was a post I saw where the media wrote that you were an anti-vaxxer or whatever.

01:55:13.280 And I'm like, this dude literally just posted that his doctor told him he's at risk of Guillain-Barre

01:55:18.180 and said not to get it.

01:55:19.140 That's not an anti-vaxxer.

01:55:20.320 That's like, well, my doctor, you know, that's what we're telling people to do.

01:55:23.200 Trust their doctors, right?

01:55:24.140 Right.

01:55:24.380 But here's the point.

01:55:26.820 Performing abundances of caution and performing goodness out there, they say, well, everyone

01:55:30.840 needs to get this so we can protect the vulnerable people who can't get it.

01:55:34.600 And I go, cool, I'm one of those people.

01:55:37.140 And it's like, no, fuck you.

01:55:38.200 You got to take it too.

01:55:39.100 Go fuck yourself.

01:55:39.980 Yeah.

01:55:40.200 And so it's like, well, then you're just performing now.

01:55:43.780 Right.

01:55:44.100 Like your words mean nothing.

01:55:46.020 And, you know, so yeah, call me anti-vaxxer.

01:55:49.740 Come after me for whatever.

01:55:51.280 It's just...

01:55:51.760 Have they made up other lies about you and you're like...

01:55:55.160 I honestly, I can't...

01:55:57.220 I don't pay attention to what they're saying.

01:55:59.560 It comes to me through, like, people will tell me, you know, hey, they said this.

01:56:03.960 Hey, they said that.

01:56:05.320 You know?

01:56:05.640 And so I will...

01:56:07.400 You know, I don't enjoy still talking about this.

01:56:10.240 Like, it's not the entirety of who I am, what happened to me.

01:56:13.100 It's a very small part of my life, right?

01:56:15.300 But I will correct the record when I hear something that I think is inaccurate.

01:56:19.920 Isn't that the worst?

01:56:21.620 That, like, a random person will send you a message being like, here's someone talking

01:56:26.240 shit about you.

01:56:26.960 Please watch it.

01:56:27.940 Yeah.

01:56:28.340 It's like, okay, dude, I know people talk shit.

01:56:30.340 I don't want to watch this man's make...

01:56:32.240 Well, it's not even public stuff.

01:56:33.540 It's like, you know, I know people connected with them other...

01:56:37.000 You know, I'm not going to call anybody out.

01:56:39.060 But, you know, so I hear what's said behind the scenes.

01:56:43.180 And, you know, so I will...

01:56:46.060 I just try to correct what I think is inaccurate.

01:56:48.400 That's all I can do.

01:56:49.480 But I'm not dwelling on it.

01:56:51.300 I don't sit there like...

01:56:53.000 To me, I just want to be creative.

01:56:54.480 I want to move on with my life and do stuff that I enjoy.

01:56:59.120 Yeah, I'm hoping that with the stuff that we're doing, we've got the new studio we're

01:57:04.280 building.

01:57:04.760 It's big.

01:57:05.940 We filmed a music video there.

01:57:07.240 It's crazy.

01:57:08.180 I'm just hoping that some days it feels like trying to knock down a skyscraper with a ball

01:57:12.780 peen hammer.

01:57:13.420 Just like one guy, like, hitting it.

01:57:15.000 And you're like, good luck.

01:57:16.200 Maybe in 10,000 years, you might actually move this thing.

01:57:19.060 But I'm hoping that there'll be an exponential return, a snowball rolling down a hill where

01:57:23.620 if we start doing shows, if we start making new cultural content, and then we just say,

01:57:30.020 listen, I wish people would all stand up and speak up, but I understand they're scared.

01:57:35.100 But if we can carve out a space where they feel safe, we win.

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01:58:37.240 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

01:58:42.300 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

01:58:46.880 our clients that we really care about you.

01:58:49.480 We care about you.

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01:58:54.840 Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

01:58:57.560 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care.

01:59:03.180 Did I mention that we care?

01:59:04.620 Yeah.

01:59:07.340 So for all the people who are like, look, man, if I speak up, I'll lose my job.

01:59:10.480 I want to be like, okay, well, we've got jobs for you.

01:59:12.800 Right.

01:59:13.080 Speak up now.

01:59:13.820 And if you do get fired, you know, we're looking for an insert job.

01:59:17.260 Yeah.

01:59:17.900 We're not big enough at TimCast.

01:59:20.240 I mean, we're decently large enough to do cool stuff, hire you to do music and other

01:59:27.240 people.

01:59:28.080 We had Taylor Silverman.

01:59:30.440 You know, she was skating in this contest and then she's competing against biological

01:59:33.820 males.

01:59:34.120 She speaks up.

01:59:35.420 There's like a cultural attack against her, which is damaging for anybody who's trying

01:59:39.880 to have a career.

01:59:40.340 Especially skateboarding is woke.

01:59:42.680 So I said, we need a host for the skate show we're doing, which has been like put on hiatus,

01:59:46.900 unfortunately.

01:59:47.660 But she's been fantastic.

01:59:48.760 And I want to make sure that anybody who is speaking up, we create that parallel economy

01:59:52.680 and we create a functioning system.

01:59:54.520 So nobody goes broke doing the right thing.

01:59:57.320 Well, that's the thing.

01:59:57.900 Like there has to be a place where as an artist, you shouldn't need anyone's permission to

02:00:03.940 create.

02:00:04.760 And that's the thing.

02:00:05.760 I think a lot of people are like, well, I'm, I'm going to get in trouble for this.

02:00:10.080 I won't be able to create.

02:00:11.060 Well, nothing's stopping you from creating like even cancel culture.

02:00:14.580 Like, oh, I'm, I got canceled or whatever.

02:00:17.180 Like you, you can't be canceled if you don't agree to it.

02:00:20.220 Like I don't agree to it.

02:00:21.440 I'm not going to skulk away in the dark and never make music again or never create again.

02:00:25.740 I'm going to keep going about my life.

02:00:27.500 You guys can dance around issues and spout nonsense all you want about, you know, oh, don't,

02:00:33.180 you know, this person's canceled, but I don't agree to it.

02:00:36.120 Yeah, that's true.

02:00:37.080 But they can make it hard.

02:00:38.300 Like, oh, it's hard.

02:00:39.260 Take it out from you.

02:00:40.680 Yeah.

02:00:41.320 I mean, it's, it's, like I said, it's not for the faint of heart and I understand why

02:00:46.740 not everybody feels like they've got the stomach for it.

02:00:49.580 Yeah.

02:00:49.880 But, um, but yeah, you gotta, uh, what you're doing, creating a cultural space of like,

02:00:56.360 we don't need these gatekeepers.

02:00:57.880 Like we put up a Tim cast song goes to number one on iTunes, right?

02:01:01.660 In front of Taylor Swift.

02:01:03.480 And, and it's like that.

02:01:05.020 Two of them did that.

02:01:05.780 The last two.

02:01:06.340 Yeah.

02:01:06.520 The top of iTunes.

02:01:07.520 Yeah.

02:01:07.800 Right.

02:01:08.140 So that should be a big story.

02:01:10.280 Right.

02:01:10.620 But who's going to cover that mainstream music press?

02:01:12.980 No.

02:01:13.240 Cause they're going to go, well, those guys didn't do it the right way.

02:01:16.280 They didn't, they didn't go through the gates that we set up.

02:01:19.340 And it's just like, well, who, who are you to tell us whether we get to create or not,

02:01:24.540 or whether we get to be successful or not?

02:01:26.340 Like we put out a song like story, this band out of nowhere that no one's ever heard of

02:01:30.900 is in front of Taylor Swift on the iTunes chart should have been a cover of Rolling Stone.

02:01:36.900 Instead it's crickets because, oh, that would be great, but not those guys.

02:01:41.620 We've put out, uh, you and I have two songs that are out and I've put out three total songs,

02:01:47.320 all of which have hit billboard to some degree.

02:01:49.500 Will of the People came out right before the 2020 election and it only charted because of

02:01:55.200 Only Ever Wanted, which we put out last August, I think.

02:01:58.440 So, you know, I'll take it, but, you know, to be fair, it's like, it's getting lifted up.

02:02:04.380 But we, we put out our first song, Only Ever Wanted, and it reached,

02:02:07.980 it hit like 14, number 14 in rock and, and, and it hits like four or five different charts

02:02:12.300 on billboard, top digital sale, like number two in digital sales behind, I think, like Elton and

02:02:17.200 Britney, yeah, their duet. We put out, uh, Genocide and this one charted on a couple,

02:02:22.680 hit number one on iTunes, number four in digital sales. Granted, at that point we're competing

02:02:26.680 with like Taylor Swift and, um, uh, Sam Smith, I think. So it's like, you know,

02:02:32.240 That's a lot. But that's, that, this is the crazy thing is the people that I've talked to in the

02:02:37.000 industry are like, for a new artist, regardless of your show and your notoriety, having two songs

02:02:43.680 like a month out from each other hit billboard should have been written up in all of these

02:02:47.980 places. It should have been big news. It should have been like this band's hitting it for some

02:02:51.940 reason, but they, you know, we got messages. Our PR person sends out messages like, Hey,

02:02:57.200 check out this song. The song Only Ever Wanted that we released. What is it? Like an angsty emo-ish

02:03:02.860 kind of like nothing political. It's a love song. It's like a song about a guy who, uh, regret is,

02:03:09.100 his, his, his wife dies and yeah, it's regret. And, uh, it's relatively soft for a while with

02:03:14.820 a heavy ending. They email us back saying, go fuck yourselves. They email us back saying,

02:03:20.020 fuck your Maga Chud Rock. And it was weird because the things that some of these journalists were

02:03:25.300 saying were like generic tweets we had seen. Right. Like someone said, like there was a viral

02:03:33.320 thing where like, ha, this is butt rock. And it's like, okay, butt rock has a reference like

02:03:36.600 Nickelback. And I'm like, I don't know, like an honest assessment would be, it's more emo-ish

02:03:41.320 than that. Considering, you know, Carter's influences and my influences, it doesn't sound

02:03:44.940 like Nickelback at all. But then all of a sudden we started getting journalists being like, ha ha,

02:03:49.220 LOL, butt rock. And I'm like, do you guys actually do your job? Do you, do you listen? Do you have

02:03:54.680 three minutes of attention span to pay attention to a song or have you gotten your marching orders

02:04:00.420 and your marching orders, man? Yeah. This is the thing people need to realize about the music

02:04:03.740 industry. It's all bought and paid for. It's a fake machine. This is why what scares me about

02:04:11.580 the modern era is that everything is a plastic, synthetic replica of what things used to be,

02:04:17.600 right? It used to be like, if you did good music, like initially, if you made good music,

02:04:22.360 you got popular, people liked it. An element of that still exists. But for the most part,

02:04:26.420 the biggest musicians, the biggest bands, fabricated, plastic, manufactured. So, I mean,

02:04:33.740 people have said like, oh, you guys did really well on iTunes, but no one buys music anymore. And I'm

02:04:38.660 like, exactly. Yeah. But listen to what you just said. Enough people bought it that we were number

02:04:43.860 one on iTunes. So now you're saying, but, but that doesn't, that doesn't matter. Well, but the issue

02:04:49.800 there is artists can't motivate someone to buy their music anymore. I mean, that's kind of a big deal.

02:04:56.320 What, what, what that says to me is, and, and, and I feel this too, I have a subscription to Spotify.

02:05:01.980 I just plus press radio. And then I don't even know who's playing the music anymore.

02:05:06.720 And so the influence of these musicians is minimal. If I can, if, if I can influence more

02:05:13.740 people to buy music than Taylor Swift, I mean, that says a lot. But even think about where we are

02:05:19.200 with music, you know, people don't buy music anymore. Well, how did that happen? Like, did every,

02:05:23.720 did anyone push back against it or did everybody go along? I don't want to make waves. This looks

02:05:28.660 like the new thing that we're doing. You know what we should do? Probably shouldn't just say

02:05:33.340 this on a show we're going to publish. We should totally write a song and then change the song

02:05:39.420 later to make a point. Like we could put a song up and then two weeks later, re-upload a slightly

02:05:47.980 different version. Have everyone get all bent out of shape. Like, Whoa, what is this? It's like a

02:05:52.160 different song. It'll be like, did you buy it? Because this is what they're doing now. Like the

02:05:56.560 Ronald doll books. Yeah. And the James Bond stuff. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, James Bond was racist

02:06:02.360 before. So we got to change the whole book. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, we made a change to the song. Did

02:06:06.880 you buy the original? Well, then you have it. That's right. But if you're just depending on

02:06:10.800 something streaming to you, that can get changed. That's a good point. It can get changed at any time.

02:06:16.080 Think about video games, you know, like a video game would come out Street Fighter 2,

02:06:20.980 which I'm sure you know, there was, there's combos in Street Fighter 2. That was a bug.

02:06:26.620 The way it goes is that if you input the commands for a move in rapid succession, there is no frame

02:06:35.400 between the moves, making your character effectively invincible and doing this move in such rapid

02:06:41.180 succession, the opponent can't block it. And when that happened at first, they were like,

02:06:45.060 oh crap, this is a problem. But then they realized it became a skill. If you could execute

02:06:50.200 a combo perfectly, you deserved to get those hits. And so then they incorporate it into the

02:06:55.240 game. Like, okay, like actually it's not a bug. It's a feature. Modern video games, if

02:07:00.400 that happens, you know what they do? Yeah. Bug fix. Bug fix. Yeah. Over, uh, over the airwaves

02:07:05.100 patch. The game changes overnight. And then all of a sudden this thing you were doing that

02:07:08.700 was fun doesn't happen anymore. Yeah. That sucks. That sucks. Yeah. TV shows too, like

02:07:13.380 they did with Netflix. Yeah. Like there, there was, um, what show was it? There was a Netflix

02:07:19.780 show. This was a big deal. They like, it came out an episode and then everyone's like, whoa.

02:07:24.060 And then they edited a scene and changed it. Really? Yeah. Re-upload it. I mean, they did

02:07:28.800 it with Game of Thrones too. And there's like a water bottle or something. Oh, the Starbucks

02:07:31.700 cup? Starbucks cup. That's what it was. That was funny. They edited the episodes of, but

02:07:35.000 if you bought it when it came out, you got the Starbucks cup. Think about how crazy that

02:07:39.600 it. That's, that's what we're going. You're going to, you're, this is the scary thing about

02:07:43.180 deep fakes and AI and the modern digital space is that there will be no history anymore. Time

02:07:47.300 will become like solid state. Yeah. You'll say, Hey, remember when, uh, that rock star said

02:07:54.260 that thing about Vietnam? And you'll go, who? You'll be like, don't you remember the video?

02:07:57.620 Let me pull up the concert. We'll play it. And then he comes out and he goes something like,

02:08:02.360 I have nothing to say about Vietnam. Have a nice day. And you're like, wait, wait, hold on a minute.

02:08:05.600 What? That's not it. But then you look like a crazy person because you're like, no, he said it. I

02:08:09.560 swear. Yeah. And they'll be like, you're suffering from the Mandela effect, bro. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

02:08:14.740 What if that's what it is? Like the Mandela effect is just the internet is being changed. It's our

02:08:19.380 simulation glitching. Not, not necessarily. I mean, so for those that aren't familiar with the Mandela

02:08:23.280 effect, there are people who believe like multiple dimensions overlap or something. And like

02:08:27.880 history gets erased. They think the fruit of the fruit of the loom used to have a cornucopia.

02:08:32.020 It's a bundle of fruit with a cornucopia, but now it's a bundle of fruit. And they're like,

02:08:34.940 what happened to the cornucopia? And everyone says, there's no cornucopia. There never was.

02:08:38.880 But then someone points out there's a parody of fruit of the loom with metal fruit. And it has

02:08:44.440 the cornucopia in it from the same time period. So what the fuck? I don't know. It originates from

02:08:49.940 people who think that they said they swear that Nelson Mandela died in prison, but then later he

02:08:55.100 was alive. And I'm like, you know, that could just be the news was wrong. Like you trust these

02:08:59.460 people and you believed it. But what if a lot of it is actually online, they erase things and change

02:09:06.820 things to fit modern narratives. Right. That's, that's, that's it, man. Yeah. You're not going to

02:09:14.940 know what is and what your past was. You're going to listen to music and you're going to be like,

02:09:19.120 I love that song about, you know, like, like, well, I mean, for one, you got, we were talking

02:09:22.580 about how the offspring got rid of the song, kill the president. Right. That's just getting rid of it

02:09:26.340 outright. Yeah. It'd be funny if they re-released it as save the president. Right. Like, oh, I love

02:09:30.980 that song, you know, about oranges. That song's about apples now. What? Yeah. We should do that.

02:09:36.860 That's actually a good, good idea for a stunt. Now we, now we told everyone we're going to do it. And

02:09:40.140 so, yeah, man, well, anyway, uh, this has been a blast. Is there, uh, so you're, you're doing

02:09:47.840 Defiant. Obviously we're making music, we're hanging out. Is there any, anything else that people

02:09:52.920 should know about in terms of? Yeah. I mean, if anybody needs drum tracks, I have my own studio.

02:09:58.040 I record every day. Um, go to my website, PetePirada.com. Send me a message there, you know, um,

02:10:04.640 have my sound pack. I work with other artists, some stuff I can't even talk about yet. That's

02:10:08.680 not coming out. So it's, it's just like, you know, I'm always busy. I'm always working, but I appreciate

02:10:15.180 coming and sitting down with you. Was it worth it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it, a year and a half

02:10:22.940 ago when I was a ball of shit on the floor, rolled up catatonic, I maybe had a different

02:10:28.360 view of it, but that bad sometime. And yeah, I mean, you're watching everything you've worked

02:10:34.720 for crater and everyone you thought you knew scatter. Damn. Like that's, that's heavy. That

02:10:41.760 takes a while to come back out from under and get your, get your sea legs again. And, you

02:10:47.160 know, that's why I haven't talked to anybody till now. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you talking

02:10:52.380 man. Cause I know, uh, I reached out initially and you were very much like, I just, you didn't

02:10:57.080 want to make the, be a spectacle. You didn't want the story to, to be around you and whatever.

02:11:01.720 And, uh, but you did the right thing. And I got to say, it's, it's like, it's not even

02:11:06.620 a philosophical thing. It's like your doctor was like, Hey bro, this is bad. And you went,

02:11:09.480 okay. And then you become this like, it's like the, the, the story isn't that you stood

02:11:15.680 up on a rock and said, I reject the mandates. The people should not be forced. You went,

02:11:20.000 I got a note from my doctor that says I could be at risk if I get this. I don't think I

02:11:23.200 can get it. And then they fired you because of it. And now they, they, they try to, it's

02:11:28.020 like unintentional almost, you know, it's, it's not even about doing the right thing. You

02:11:30.840 did the right thing for yourself and here we are. Yeah. But like I said at the time too,

02:11:34.380 yeah, I have a medical exemption and whatever, but I also don't feel like anybody should

02:11:38.240 have the right to force anything on you, your employers, your government, anyone.

02:11:41.960 And it was important to make that distinction at the time because I didn't want to be behind,

02:11:46.020 hiding behind my exemption, you know, saying I'm cool over here, but the rest of you are

02:11:52.600 on your own.

02:11:53.240 But it, but it is, it is good. And I think it, it is, it is a good thing in that you,

02:11:59.300 you should, you made them expose their bullshit hand that even like, like you mentioned, Hey,

02:12:04.300 we need to get this because of the vulnerable people who can't. And you went, yeah, that's

02:12:07.400 me. And they said, fuck you.

02:12:08.460 Yep.

02:12:09.100 So that just shows they were full of shit the whole time.

02:12:11.120 Yeah.

02:12:11.500 Anyway, wrap up on a lighter note, I guess. Is there, is there anything else you want

02:12:15.480 to add, like where people can find you or whatever? I think you mentioned it already.

02:12:17.840 Yeah. I mean, I'm on Twitter, just at Pete Parada and same thing on Instagram.

02:12:21.880 Uh, I don't do Facebook. So if there's anything on there and that's not me, um, and just my

02:12:26.920 website, Pete Parada.com. That's it.

02:12:29.180 Right on man. And, uh, for everybody listening or watching, thanks so much for checking this

02:12:33.800 out. If you really do like the show and you think we're doing a good job with it and having

02:12:37.180 these expanded conversations, the most powerful thing you can do is just tell your friends

02:12:40.400 about it, have them listen in the car or whatever podcasts grow by word of mouth. So I really

02:12:46.620 do appreciate everyone's support with this new endeavor. Become a member at timcast.com to

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - March 03, 2023

The Culture War #2 - Pete Parada, Former Offspring Drummer Replaced Over Vax Mandate

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