The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #20 - Debating Masculinity w⧸Destiny, John Doyle, & Lauren Chen

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00:00:59.300 Today we're going to be talking about masculinity, dating, and social issues pertaining to that.

00:01:14.340 There's a big question that many of us have talked about. Why is it that men are failing?

00:01:18.460 They're not going to school. Why is it that testosterone levels are on the decline and

00:01:21.880 sperm counts are on the decline? So we're going to focus a lot on men, but I certainly think that

00:01:25.860 we'll get into issues of gender and feminism along with all of this, dating especially,

00:01:30.320 and gender dynamics. So it's going to be a fun one today. We got a bunch of really awesome people

00:01:34.440 joining us to talk about the issue. Of course, we have Destiny.

00:01:38.180 Hi. What's up?

00:01:39.440 Who are you? What do you do?

00:01:40.740 I'm Destiny. I do politics and philosophy and video games on my YouTube channel.

00:01:44.100 Right on. And we have John Doyle.

00:01:46.300 Yes, thank you for having me. Glad to be back.

00:01:48.260 And, of course, Lauren Chen, a late addition.

00:01:50.760 Yeah, thanks for having me. I realize that I am probably not the most expert on masculinity,

00:01:56.300 but hopefully I can at least add a feminine perspective, because, of course, everyone

00:01:59.420 cares about what the woman's issue about masculinity is today.

00:02:03.380 That's why I asked you to come. Last night, you know, we were talking about having this

00:02:07.400 show in the morning, and then I thought, you know, if we're going to be talking about

00:02:09.440 men's issues, we have a woman who can also add a female perspective, probably a more traditional

00:02:14.260 view on things, as opposed to, say, a liberal woman or anything like that.

00:02:18.280 But, you know.

00:02:19.000 That would have been, we should get, like, whatever 2.0, you know.

00:02:21.940 Whatever 2.0. I kind of, I don't know. I like whatever for a variety of reasons. I

00:02:26.460 think we'll be a bit different than whatever's take on things.

00:02:29.560 Hopefully, yeah.

00:02:30.540 I don't know. They get accused of being a bit more vapid, I suppose.

00:02:35.120 But I like it. I mean, it's whatever. It's the whatever podcast.

00:02:37.540 Haha, good one.

00:02:39.240 So let's just start with the kickoff story.

00:02:43.120 We have this article from earlier in the year from The New Yorker, What's the Matter

00:02:46.400 with Men? They're floundering at school, in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a

00:02:50.560 crisis of masculinity, but the problems and their solutions are far more complex.

00:02:54.580 Yeah, so this is the big issue, I suppose. Men's failure to launch. We hear about toxic

00:03:01.140 masculinity quite a bit in, you know, various corporate press circles, things like that.

00:03:05.460 We've had the Gillette commercial and other things like that, that seem to poke at, you know,

00:03:09.940 a view of toxic masculinity. But I'm curious, just to kick it off,

00:03:13.120 if anyone, whoever wants to start, what's your thought on why men appear to be failing?

00:03:19.600 I assume we were going in order of who was introduced first. But all right, I'll be like

00:03:23.960 the based alpha male and assert myself into the conversation early on, I suppose. I think

00:03:29.400 it's probably because we just aren't taught how to be men. I mean, traditionally, men would be taught

00:03:33.600 how to sort of grow into their masculinity by their fathers, grandfathers, uncles. But now we have a

00:03:38.860 very, I think, androgynous and weak society because of things like you mentioned with testosterone going

00:03:43.900 down because of different lifestyle factors, things they're putting in the food, things even in the

00:03:47.860 water. It's like residual birth control, I think, like estrogen in the water. But also, I think our

00:03:52.520 society doesn't really incentivize positive channeling of those behaviors. You know, typically,

00:03:56.760 if you are a man, you're going to want to like impose your will upon the world in some capacity,

00:04:02.000 whatever that may be. But if you can't do that, you're going to turn that inward and

00:04:05.980 self-destruct or you're going to try to distract yourself from that drive naturally with things

00:04:09.900 like maybe drugs, video games, masturbation, pornography. And so I think that's kind of

00:04:14.760 what we're seeing just because men haven't really been taught by their fathers. They're largely absent

00:04:18.520 from their lives in the first place now how to actually be a man. And now people don't even know

00:04:22.960 what that means. Like if you ask someone how to be a man and even you look at like in the red pill

00:04:26.020 community, they'll say, well, being a man is like, you know, having sex with lots of women and

00:04:30.180 smoking cigars and drinking whiskey. And it's like this caricature. It's like a costume of like

00:04:34.260 what masculinity actually is. And so no one really has a clear definition of it because I don't think

00:04:38.980 the definition is actually that interesting. Like if you'd go back a hundred years and be like,

00:04:42.400 how do I be a man? It's like, I don't know, just like do it. It's supposed to be something that

00:04:45.420 happens naturally. And I think that as our society has devolved, we've had so many impediments

00:04:50.320 introduced that prevent people from doing that naturally. They think they have to like reinvent it

00:04:53.920 into some really complex thing. You have to take these courses and read these books. That's not the case.

00:04:58.400 You should really be able to just kind of develop into it. I think I wonder if it had something to

00:05:02.300 do in the past with survival in that men fought wars, put out fires, were hunting and things like

00:05:09.900 that. And as we've advanced as a civilization in terms of technology, survivability has become

00:05:17.440 less and less of an issue for us. We have too much food now. And so is there really going to be this

00:05:22.220 manly man who's super ripped with a big beard, chopping down trees, or is it going to be some beer

00:05:26.460 belly guy driving around in a heavy machinery who just presses a button and has it done for him?

00:05:31.500 So, you know, we have this traditional view of masculinity with these heroic images of men

00:05:35.540 that we don't need as much anymore.

00:05:38.460 Yeah, I think that's definitely possible. I think that it's still possible, though,

00:05:41.580 for men to be heroes, even in this like post-industrial society. But I think they're

00:05:45.680 prevented from doing so. I mean, even like in school nowadays, boys can't stand up for themselves

00:05:49.700 on the playground because they have like zero tolerance policies, which teach kids that like

00:05:53.540 violence is absolutely never something that's permitted. So if some kid's picking on you and

00:05:57.580 you fight back, you are now going to be suspended as well. You also have things like they're bringing

00:06:02.080 these social workers and counselors to try to tell boys that like if you have a problem,

00:06:05.480 you have to talk about it and there's probably something wrong with you. They even try to turn

00:06:09.300 their students like against their parents in some cases. If kids are like, you know, my mom

00:06:12.980 destroyed my Lego set because she was mad at me. A whole Lego set destroyed? That was something I

00:06:17.280 remember happening to one of my buddies when I was in elementary school. So I think it's like taking

00:06:21.180 children and basically teaching them to be a cog in that system that you described without saying,

00:06:26.360 you know, you can climb to the top. You can be a hero. You can still do things that are noble,

00:06:30.140 even if you're not, you know, protecting your community from Indians. You can protect them

00:06:33.720 from criminals. But now the law has made that largely impossible in many cases as well, I think.

00:06:37.660 Well, most of the institutions that young men interact with are run by women. If we look at the

00:06:41.520 education system, it is a more feminine view. And the way that little girls learn and little boys learn,

00:06:46.760 it's not the same. It's not that one's better than the other. But I feel like that in addition to the fact

00:06:51.020 that social workers, for example, overwhelmingly females, psychologists, psychiatrists, overwhelmingly

00:06:54.780 females, there are so many women who I think have the best intention when it comes to shaping men's

00:06:59.300 lives. But I think they're not realizing that men and women are different. So that masculine

00:07:02.960 leadership that you were talking about, that's largely missing. And it's been replaced with either

00:07:07.000 nothing or maybe too much of a feminizing influence. What do you think? I don't think men and women are

00:07:13.560 that different. I do agree with one thing that was said, though, I think one of the big issues you run

00:07:17.460 into is there's literally no good advice out there for how to, I guess, help men. Because it seems

00:07:22.300 like on the left, they just don't want to talk to men at all. They're just exclusively talking to

00:07:26.080 women or maybe minority men. And then for people on the right, this is very strange caricature of

00:07:30.840 masculinity. It's funny, as you pointed out, like that the red pill talks about a caricature of

00:07:34.120 masculinity. But I feel like sometimes conservatives talk about characters of masculinity, too. I feel

00:07:38.500 like when we talk about masculinity, everybody wants to talk about like the really sexy, like

00:07:41.480 fighting the kid at lunch that broke your Legos or fighting with your parents or whatever. The

00:07:46.800 reality is, and I say the same shit to red pillers who say, well, it's important for you to be

00:07:50.000 masculine because somebody breaks into my house. I need to get my assault rifle and tell my woman to

00:07:52.540 hide. Like life, 99% of life is not these moments. Like how successful you are in life really comes

00:07:58.380 down to like, can you maintain a sleep schedule? Can you have a decent diet? Do you have enough

00:08:02.640 discipline to go to work, show up to your job? Can you graduate school? Like these are not only are

00:08:06.840 these like the most important, they're oftentimes the hardest ones. It's a lot harder to maintain a

00:08:11.220 4.0 GPA, get a scholarship, go to school than it is to stand up to a bully one time on the

00:08:15.080 playground. But it seems like those are the sexy like moments that everybody wants to obsess over.

00:08:20.020 And then in the meantime, when you look at like the woman's side of things, women have been taught

00:08:23.780 to have more control over reproductive health. They're taught to go to school and succeed in

00:08:27.080 ways we never thought they could before. They're taught to enter the job market and get jobs and

00:08:30.180 make money in ways they never thought they could before. Women have been doing a good job at kind of

00:08:34.280 like leveling up all these different aspects of their lives. Nobody wants to talk to the men on the left.

00:08:37.980 And the people that are talking to the men from the right are like, well, you guys just need to be

00:08:41.200 even more masculine, even though I don't see any future where just being even more masculine is

00:08:45.720 equipping you to succeed in a world where your outcomes are largely determined by like how

00:08:49.800 successful you could be at a white collar office job, or how successful you could be sitting down,

00:08:53.780 you know, eight hours a day in a school setting like in college.

00:08:56.500 I suppose that's true. I don't know if while it does seem sort of silly when you lay it out that

00:09:01.000 way to focus on, you know, these heroic standards as opposed to what is more practically applicable.

00:09:05.060 It is true, though, that like even when men do go down those paths, and they do them

00:09:08.500 successfully, they don't feel fulfilled, they don't feel happy, they feel very, you know, inundated and

00:09:12.540 restless. And I think that's partially why the male suicide rate is like unprecedentedly high.

00:09:16.840 Because yes, they are checking these boxes, and they're living successfully as determined by how

00:09:20.500 society might want that to be defined. But they still do not feel like they're living as men. I

00:09:25.300 mean, even, you know, for example, if there were a guy who were making good money at a job,

00:09:28.580 white collar, and he steps outside his office to go get into his Mercedes, and he gets like robbed by

00:09:32.640 somebody who doesn't have a gun, they just like beat the shit out of him. Wait, can I swear?

00:09:36.520 I don't remember. I don't remember the rules here. I don't know if we have any. I don't know.

00:09:40.060 He's gonna feel like emasculated. You're going to feel bad about yourself because you were unable

00:09:44.060 to defend yourself. And especially if his girlfriend or if his wife sees that, I don't

00:09:47.800 care how much feminist literature she has read. If your woman ever sees you get beat up by another

00:09:52.040 guy, she's never gonna look at you the same way. I don't care how understanding she says that she

00:09:55.260 is. Oh, he was bigger than you, whatever. She will never look at you the same way again. Because whether or not

00:09:59.000 we like it, they have been wired biologically to seek out men who can protect them, even if now they don't

00:10:03.860 necessarily need the financial stability that maybe they would have required, you know, a hundred years

00:10:07.280 ago, they still have that instinct to pursue that. And so I think that those moments too, I mean, how

00:10:11.500 many guys too are now living in the glory or living in like this very comfortable lifestyle who still

00:10:17.440 reminisce back to when they were like the captain of the football team or back, you know, in their glory

00:10:22.140 days or even like post-traumatic stress disorder. I mean, properly understood, we learned this in

00:10:25.600 Vietnam. It's not like guys are so traumatized by war. It's that they go and they experience that

00:10:30.380 brotherhood and that glory and they come back and they're like in a box. I mean, the Hurt Locker

00:10:33.960 actually explored this very well. You read the interviews from like after Vietnam, these soldiers

00:10:37.380 are coming back. It's not just that they're traumatized. It's that life after war is boring. So I think there

00:10:42.020 is something in the male brain that's wired to pursue that. Okay. Yeah, a few things. So one, that PTSD

00:10:47.120 is absolutely not. I was with my brothers and then I came back. I don't think that is a driving factor

00:10:52.720 PTSD. I think a driving factor PTSD is the human central nervous system being stressed beyond whatever a human

00:10:57.740 is meant to deal with in life and death situations for sometimes extended periods of time, sometimes

00:11:03.280 with other physiological things lacking too, like sleep, diet, whatever. But regardless of that,

00:11:07.440 again, we hit on the, there's another red pill talking point. Like what is a woman looking for

00:11:11.060 in a man? Protection. Like where do you live? Is this like in Pakistan or are we like in some civil

00:11:16.880 war place? Like we live in the United States of America. I don't think protection is the thing that

00:11:20.440 like most people probably want a guy that earns a decent paycheck. But is that not financial protection?

00:11:25.020 Yeah, but that's not the protection that he was talking about. Right? If you want to broaden

00:11:29.660 protection to be so overly broad and meaningless that it includes things like making money, you can

00:11:33.140 do that. But when people say protection, I mean, he was talking about like, if your wife sees you get

00:11:36.740 beaten up, blah, blah, blah. Like if we take the totality of divorces and relationships ending in

00:11:41.100 the United States right now, it's like saw my husband get beat up. Is that even going to make the top 50?

00:11:46.260 I'm guessing probably nowhere near on that list.

00:11:48.680 It's a similar impulse in the brain though, because I think women are initiating something between like

00:11:52.460 two thirds and 80% of divorces. And largely they just cite that they feel unfulfilled.

00:11:57.260 I think that can manifest in a variety of ways, but I think it's like they're looking at their

00:12:00.600 husbands as less attractive for whatever reason. Well, that's, you can even see studies to women

00:12:04.180 that earn more than their husbands in a long enough timeline are more likely to divorce them

00:12:07.660 because they don't have that traditional perceived ability to, like she mentioned, protect

00:12:11.440 financially. But I agree with what you're saying.

00:12:13.280 Hold on. Neither of those two things are completely true. Number one, the divorce rate gets cited a lot.

00:12:17.500 There's a reason why women overwhelmingly initiate divorce versus men. That's because oftentimes women

00:12:21.560 have more to, they need to secure by doing so. If a man and a wife get together and things, you know,

00:12:27.200 pet her out, whatever, things don't work out, especially if the woman is a child, that woman

00:12:30.160 has to file for divorce. If she wants to qualify for benefits, if she wants to get any kind of

00:12:33.420 child support, if she wants to get any kind of welfare, otherwise her husband's income is

00:12:36.100 constantly going to be taken into account when she's trying to apply for any assistance or need.

00:12:38.960 So women are oftentimes highly incentivized to get divorced because a man can be like married and not

00:12:43.040 give a fuck forever. Socially, there's probably less stigma. Like, oh, I'm separated from my wife.

00:12:46.340 She's whatever. Versus a woman being like, well, I'm still married, but I don't see my husband.

00:12:49.320 So socially, there's a lot of stigma behind who would cause a divorce. And then for financial

00:12:54.000 benefits, a woman with a child whose husband is no longer in the picture of not helping,

00:12:57.180 she absolutely needs to file for that divorce in order to qualify for anything she might need to

00:13:00.760 maintain a household. Number one. Number two, after the divorce thing, you brought up the,

00:13:05.160 what was the second thing?

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00:14:03.680 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

00:14:10.860 Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

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00:14:29.680 Did I mention that we care?

00:14:34.360 Oh, shoot. I don't even remember.

00:14:36.940 Fuck, was it the protection thing? Fuck, I lost it. But the number one thing was, yeah, not, yeah.

00:14:41.320 Well, so I just, quick Google search, singular source, Forbes advisor says that lack of commitment

00:14:47.420 is the primary reason for divorce. 75% of individuals cited lack of commitment, 60% cited infidelity.

00:14:54.940 So it seems like infidelity is the real reason for divorce, which kind of sounds like if either

00:15:01.480 individual in the relationship is cheating on each other, they've already, they've already broken

00:15:05.760 their relationship. I mean, this is something I'll push back at the 80% of women filing for divorce.

00:15:09.280 I think there's a difference between a woman filing for divorce and a woman being responsible

00:15:12.560 for the divorce. If it's a case of infidelity specifically, a man can cheat and a woman can

00:15:17.060 file for divorce because of that. But can you really blame the woman for the marriage failing in

00:15:20.640 that case? I don't think so. But I think lack of commitment here is defined separately from

00:15:24.780 infidelity. Lack of commitment could be like, you know, he's not bringing to the table what I thought

00:15:29.060 he was, something like that. These sort of like vague reasons that are hard to define. Infidelity,

00:15:32.840 I would agree with, but I mean, it does say like 75% would be lack of commitment.

00:15:36.200 I want to ask that question. What causes infidelity? Could it be sexual, you know, desires that a man

00:15:44.860 has or a woman has they're not being fulfilled with? Or could it be that something in their

00:15:49.220 relationship already broke where an attraction has waned for a variety of reasons, which resulted

00:15:54.040 in them seeking? There's probably a variety of reasons why. It's monogamy. So if everybody had

00:15:58.940 open relationships, there'd be no more infidelity. Boom. That's just like saying if we, if we make

00:16:03.380 all crime legal, there'll be no more crime. Okay. Have you seen the purge? Okay. Their world is

00:16:08.800 better off for it, according to the lore. So, um, well, you know, it may be if we did live in the

00:16:13.080 purge, my argument would be better about needing protection or something, but no, probably still buy

00:16:18.240 like huge houses. I do think there's something to be said because, you know, they've done cross

00:16:21.760 cultural studies, for example, where you look at like stereotypes of masculinity or femininity,

00:16:25.360 and you ask all these different cultures, you know, what they tend to seek in a potential mate.

00:16:29.300 And we find that they basically hold up that men are looking for, you know, women who are young

00:16:33.300 and beautiful, implying the role of the mother. Women are looking for men who are, you know, strong

00:16:38.340 and ambitious and of resources, implying the role of the protector and the provider. So while it is true

00:16:43.620 that yes, your need to be protected by a man is much lesser than that it would have been, you know,

00:16:47.320 a hundred years ago, I think that biological impulse is still there, which is why we see it across

00:16:51.160 cultures. And so the question becomes, how much is our society going to undo that biological impulse

00:16:56.960 to seek that, uh, with women? Can I find out that real quick? Okay. When we cite, okay. First of all,

00:17:02.280 the marriage thing is a really good thing, right? If we say 60% of relationships end in infidelity,

00:17:08.760 right? I know they didn't say that, but let's say 60% of relationships end in infidelity.

00:17:11.520 Why did the relationship end? To say cheating, um, doesn't really get to the heart of what

00:17:17.080 happened, right? Cause it's, it's possible that like by the time cheating has happened,

00:17:20.320 it's because the relationship has already fallen apart, right? Like this is, I haven't seen data

00:17:23.920 on this, but I would be, I would bet my life on this that you can probably track the success

00:17:27.180 of a relationship based on how much sex the man and the woman have. However, would you say that

00:17:31.340 like, well, you know, we had sex like once every three months. That's why the relationship ended.

00:17:35.480 Probably not. You probably stopped having sex because other issues were starting to crop up to make

00:17:39.080 it happen. Um, we take these numbers sometimes. And I, if you want to talk about a study,

00:17:45.000 I think it's important to talk about the entirety of a study and not to pull numbers because I'm

00:17:48.640 familiar with the Michael Sartain. I think in Rolo cite these numbers all the time that these

00:17:51.780 cross-cultural things, they do this polling data, see what people want. Just because people find a

00:17:55.460 certain thing attractive doesn't necessarily mean that's what they chase. For instance,

00:17:59.000 here's a data point. Here are two different data points that almost seem to contradict each other.

00:18:01.920 One is that I think that for men, I think the ideal age of like female beauty, depending on what

00:18:06.180 you're looking at is anywhere from like 18 to 24, um, depending on what study you're looking at.

00:18:10.660 But if you look at the average difference of the age of a relationship, it's like 2.7 years,

00:18:16.260 I think. So even though men in general might say like, Oh my God, like I really like young women

00:18:20.860 that are like 22 on average, the choices that you're making a life aren't going to 100% map

00:18:24.880 onto the thing that you find attractive. Same thing with women. Women might say that I prefer men

00:18:28.400 that are, you know, six feet tall and blah, blah, blah. And these are like your dream preferences.

00:18:31.440 But when it actually comes to settling down in a relationship, they're not picking like the optimal

00:18:36.100 things that they fantasize. They're making more realistic choices. And I think it's important to

00:18:39.500 contextualize numbers when we talk about things like that. In fact, I think one of the red pill

00:18:43.580 dating talking points is that young women and I'm not saying I agree with it. This is one thing to

00:18:48.540 say that young women will rack up a high body count at a young age. And then once they're in their 30s,

00:18:53.440 think, Oh, I need a stable guy who's actually going to be there for me. And they end up settling down

00:18:57.960 with a guy who's like an average dude with a good job. It's true. Many such cases. And I think there is

00:19:03.080 something to be said that while you know, what you desire is not what you're always going to be able to get

00:19:06.920 that impulse is still there. So you can be a very beautiful young woman, desire that guy and maybe

00:19:11.540 get him maybe choose to exploit your beauty for other purposes and then settle down later. But

00:19:15.600 settling doesn't mean you decide that this is unrealistic just because it's like unobtainable.

00:19:19.940 It's more because well, what am I working with? What can I bring to the table to get that because

00:19:23.400 the guy in that position is well aware of that desirability. And so he can leverage that to get a

00:19:28.620 woman who's more in alignment with what he finds desirable. So I don't think it's necessarily like,

00:19:32.340 you know, I wish I could fly, but I can't. It's like, this does exist, but I can't get it for

00:19:37.360 whatever reason. Well, I find looking at the red pill community versus, for example, you know,

00:19:41.760 some of the extreme whatever women like the podcasts that is, there's a big stark contrast

00:19:48.240 between red pills, red pillars who might say, Oh, well, no woman is going to want someone who's

00:19:52.380 under six foot tall, which is absolutely not true. I mean, people, people on the internet act as

00:19:56.220 if no one ever no one who's 5'10 has ever gotten married as a man, which is absolutely not the

00:20:00.240 case. And then, you know, on the other side of things, you might also have a extreme feminist

00:20:05.600 who's saying, Oh, well, women can do whatever they want mentioned, not care about body count,

00:20:09.100 because it doesn't matter, which is also not true. People have preferences, obviously,

00:20:12.600 but we're working within the fact that we have to deal with real people who are imperfect. So I

00:20:17.160 think anytime we're looking at these polls, people online can be really, I don't want to say

00:20:21.160 autistic about them, but act as if these they're the gospel truth. But destiny is right. People are a lot

00:20:25.740 more nuanced in their actual behavior. Well, let me just, you know, ask the the woman who's here,

00:20:31.100 would you would you divorce your husband if he got beat up in front of you? No, are you lying?

00:20:35.700 No. I mean, my husband does do BJJ, and he's a pretty big guy. But no, no, but I can't even

00:20:41.400 conceive of the possibility because he's already taken into account that because he agrees he knows

00:20:45.980 it's true. And that's why he trains BJJ. Well, I think there is, there is, there would be something

00:20:50.460 inherently emasculating about seeing your husband get beaten up in front of you. Aside from the

00:20:55.640 fact that he's your husband, and you love him, and you're worried about him getting

00:20:57.920 beaten up. But obviously, no, you know, most women aren't looking for someone who is literally,

00:21:04.040 who was, you know, Game of Thrones, Jason Momoa, Carl Drogo. They're not looking for that extreme

00:21:10.180 example of masculinity. But there's something inherent in women where they're looking at a

00:21:13.960 man. And I think the lizard brain is asking, could he physically protect me? They like men who are

00:21:18.340 strong, who have muscles, who are taller. I think that goes, that's there for a reason. It's because of

00:21:22.720 the physical prowess. I think when I when I think of like masculine and feminine traits,

00:21:26.740 I think that they're important. But I think that people have a more realistic view of how they

00:21:30.760 influence people. I think these are things that exist as the edges. They're like the spice that

00:21:35.160 you can add to a relationship. So like, if you find I'll say from the male perspective, you find a

00:21:39.140 woman that's like, really stable. Maybe she works like a decent job. If you care about that, you have

00:21:44.180 a fun time, you've got a lot of chemistry together. Like these are like the really important things.

00:21:47.860 You have a similar communication. These are the really important things. Now, if she also happens to have

00:21:51.720 a great butt, big boobs, she's short, whatever the fuck you she's blonde or whatever you're into,

00:21:56.700 that's like a cool bonus. And I think it's similar for women to like, if you find a guy and he can

00:22:00.320 provide for you, he's got a good job, really stable, good relationship with his parents, likes kids,

00:22:03.340 all this stuff. That's cool. If he's also like six feet tall, he's also like support. Those are like

00:22:07.240 cool bonuses. But I don't think people are usually deciding relationships on those like side factors

00:22:12.060 unless they're really, really, really young. Like a 20 year old dude might be like, I'm dating that girl

00:22:15.700 because she's got huge tits. And I don't care that she has BPD. And she slashed her last boyfriend's

00:22:19.600 tires. Or the girl that's like, I'm dating this guy. He's so fucking hot. I know he's got a lot

00:22:23.120 of tattoos and he just got out of prison like two years ago, but I'm doing it. You know, like if

00:22:26.000 you're really young, you make stupid decisions like that. But in general, these are like bonuses,

00:22:28.880 not like the deciding factors. I was reading this analysis from a dating website, a dating app,

00:22:33.600 and they broke down level of attraction by age. And the interesting thing was, I shouldn't say

00:22:41.400 interesting, the creepy thing is that men, they actually, when shown pictures of women,

00:22:45.580 overwhelmingly choose underage women, like disgustingly. I've seen as low as 16 sometimes.

00:22:50.860 Exactly. And this is why it's not surprising to learn that the models you see in a lot of ads,

00:22:57.540 when you go to the mall and you'll see like women, they're like 15 and 16 years old. Creepy stuff.

00:23:02.880 However, when actually introduced or asked about women of that age, men overwhelmingly say no,

00:23:09.920 because I mean, like who want, who, what, what adult wants to hang out with a child? It's,

00:23:16.060 it's just, so what ends up happening is, uh, according to this, this one dating apps bit of

00:23:19.700 data, I think it was okay. Cupid. They said men overwhelmingly want 22 year old women because

00:23:25.100 they're adult in mind and young and attractive. So while the industry may pursue these younger women,

00:23:32.340 typically like 17 or 18, still too young. In my opinion, uh, men are overwhelmingly like,

00:23:36.900 yeah, okay. That 18 year old girl might be attractive or whatever, but who wants to spend

00:23:40.740 their time with someone who's inexperienced and not capable of, you know, navigating the world.

00:23:45.840 But 22 does tend to be the number four guys across the board. I think it was okay. Cupid did,

00:23:50.720 uh, that showed this data where no matter how old a man is, he's liking and messaging 22 year olds,

00:23:56.760 Leonardo DiCaprio. That's right. And no matter how old a woman is, she's dating within,

00:24:01.360 she's trying to date within her age range, like a comparable age. Yeah. I think that, uh,

00:24:06.300 a lot of what he mentioned is true as far as like people getting more realistic with their dating

00:24:09.600 standards. But I wonder how much of that is just because as you get older, you yourself,

00:24:13.340 whether you're a male or a female accumulate more baggage, you know, past relationships,

00:24:17.560 crazy exes, you know, as you get into your like thirties or forties, if you're still dating,

00:24:21.880 you can't exactly go into it. I don't think with the same sort of like optimism and blank slate,

00:24:27.020 so to speak, that you might've been able to when you were 20, you're also far less mature when

00:24:30.720 you're in your, you know, early twenties. So yeah, you're going to want to pursue the girl with BPD

00:24:33.720 who's going to slash your tires. There's something fun about that. It's a stepping stone,

00:24:36.920 but yes, as you get older, you do kind of have to get more realistic about, I think the world

00:24:40.600 around you, but I don't think that negates sort of like the core of what makes people attracted to

00:24:45.120 each other in terms of like the, you know, the masculine or the feminine side.

00:24:48.260 Yeah. I was going to say, I, again, I agree with that core, but it's just, it's what

00:24:51.580 everybody talks about. It would be like having a discussion of like, what is the best car to take to

00:24:56.840 the track? And 95% of the discussion is around like the spoiler or the seats. It's like, yeah,

00:25:04.620 like some aspects of these could matter for comfort or luxury, or maybe even for aerodynamics or

00:25:08.700 whatever, but like the main thrust, and this is my thesis in the beginning. The thing that I hate

00:25:13.780 is that you've got obviously progressives and left-leaning people don't want to talk to men

00:25:16.120 because they're all rapists. Um, but the people on the right that give the advice, it's all focused

00:25:20.340 on this, on this very niche hyper-masculine thing that one, the vast majority of men will never get

00:25:24.460 to. Most men aren't going to earn six figures, let alone be the millionaires, let alone have the

00:25:28.020 50 woman body count by the time you're 35 or get the vasectomy when you're 20, whatever,

00:25:32.740 all these other replicas say. Most of them aren't even going to hit that point. And then secondly,

00:25:36.700 in terms of how people can improve themselves for relationships, I don't think in general,

00:25:41.040 the complaint is like, God, there's just not enough like ultra masculine men. I think usually the

00:25:45.420 breakdowns are more along the lines of like, these guys suck at communicating. They don't have very

00:25:49.360 good like socialization skills. We don't have very good chemistry. Don't know how to conduct

00:25:52.980 themselves properly in public. Maybe you can't do anything in a house, like doesn't know how to

00:25:56.320 do laundry clean or even make macaroni and cheese or make their bed. Like, I think that these are

00:26:00.820 the things that kind of need a lot of focus. As cringes as it is, I used to make fun of them a lot

00:26:04.200 because I didn't think that a lot of men had this problem. I honestly think Jordan Peterson's advice

00:26:07.900 of like, make your bed and take care of your own shit while you go into the world is way more

00:26:11.840 important than like, you got to hit the gym because you never know when 17 assailants are going to hop

00:26:16.020 out in an alley and try to stab to death you and steal your woman, you know?

00:26:18.700 Yes, but hitting the gym is in line outside of that weird, weird, like the idea that you're

00:26:24.960 going to hit the gym to become strong to fight is silly, but the idea that you hit the gym for

00:26:28.400 yourself is good. Yeah, right. I clean in your room. Yeah, you should definitely just train a

00:26:32.300 martial art instead of just going for strength purposes and learn how to shoot a gun all the

00:26:35.720 time. The ultimate equalizer. I actually agree like completely with what he's saying. And so far as

00:26:40.660 I find the whole discussion between like, you know, the only fans woman versus the red pill guy

00:26:45.540 to be like so bad that they should almost be arrested because it is making me a danger to

00:26:50.980 myself. Like there's probably a legal argument to be made there that it's like threatening my life

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00:28:23.580 Stupid that discussion is because it's exactly as you said. I mean, most people aren't going to get

00:28:27.640 to that point. And if you talked about the core of the issue, which is that men aren't men anymore,

00:28:31.320 everything just falls into place there. You know, there's a great picture that goes viral on Twitter

00:28:34.640 every now and then of like some football player kissing some cheerleader. And the guy's like,

00:28:39.060 do you think that this guy had to like read a book on how to be a man or like, you know,

00:28:42.840 read forms on how to like talk to girls and get a girlfriend? It just fell into place because he

00:28:46.980 was normal. And men nowadays are very like introverted and antisocial. And so these things

00:28:51.300 don't fall into place. So yeah, I agree. It's like we were talking about this before the show.

00:28:54.560 It's like almost this weird revenge of the nerds fantasy where you've got all these guys who love

00:28:58.000 watching their favorite red pill guy put that OnlyFans girl in line and tell her she's not going to be

00:29:02.900 happy. She's probably happy. I mean, maybe she'll get depressed later, but she's probably doing okay

00:29:07.140 because she's making millions of dollars. Real quick on that. Because again, it's the same. One,

00:29:11.440 most guys never play football. I don't even know that. Like the majority of guys were not on the

00:29:15.080 high school football team. The football teams are not big enough. Number one. Number two, I think it's

00:29:19.000 funny that we go to football. For example, aren't these the guys who like rape and beat their

00:29:21.800 girlfriends more than like any other profession for like NFL players and shit? Like what are the

00:29:26.040 demographics of the NFL though? I knew that point was coming up. Not football, but I think most

00:29:31.120 guys have some experience in like high school athletics or something. I didn't play football.

00:29:35.500 I ran track, played baseball. I'm just saying like if we set the standard, it's like, don't you want

00:29:38.940 to be the captain of the football team? It's like, damn, most people aren't going to be the captain of

00:29:42.620 the football team. Well, I feel like the problem with the red pill community and some conservatives,

00:29:47.300 I wouldn't call them in the sphere of Christian conservatives, but they're so obsessed with talking

00:29:50.720 about how to find the right mate that none of them ever actually get married and live the values

00:29:55.320 that they preach. Like if you're, you're so focused on dating culture, that's great, but it needs to be

00:29:59.060 dating toward marriage. And if you're so obsessed with telling people like you need to find the girl

00:30:02.720 with all the right attributes at the peak age, they're never actually going to find a realistic

00:30:06.520 person and then get married and have a family, which should be the ultimate goal. And I feel like a lot

00:30:10.940 of red pill community people are being called out right now by Christians who have families because

00:30:15.480 it's like what you're doing. You may think that you're trying to fix hookup culture, but you're really just

00:30:19.420 indulging in it. It's basically the same thing because it's taking the problem that men are facing

00:30:24.540 and it's just selling them like a repackaged solution, which is that we don't feel as though

00:30:28.440 we have meaning and purpose. And so it's saying, Hey, you're upset because you're smoking weed

00:30:32.580 and masturbating. Well, what if instead you were doing better drugs and sleeping with only fans

00:30:38.040 models? It's like the same hedonism. You're just pursuing pleasure, like a higher degree of like

00:30:42.020 exclusivity, I guess. It would be better off if they said, how about you were eating healthy and

00:30:46.480 working out? And instead of obsessing over, you know, weird porn and video games, you obsessed over,

00:30:50.840 you know, how many reps you could do or how far you could run. But take a look at this. This is

00:30:54.580 from a date psychology. This is a relatively older story that goes back to 2018. Young male virginity

00:31:01.460 on the rise from 2008. In 2008, men under the age of 30 reported 8% reported being virgins. Now 27%.

00:31:10.440 I'm curious why you think that is and whether you guys think it's a good or bad thing.

00:31:14.000 I would be careful with this because I think there was recent data that showed that this is like a pretty

00:31:18.100 unfortunate blip. You could try to find this, but that red pillars for, I think it was two years

00:31:22.600 ago, there was a data point that came out that was similar to this. And obviously all the red

00:31:25.740 pillars are like, oh my God, young men are getting laid. All the women are hypergamous and they're

00:31:29.380 all fucking the one Chad guy, blah, blah, blah. But I think the most recent data shows that it's

00:31:33.520 basically back to where it was before that it was probably a blip like pre or during COVID or

00:31:37.260 whatever. You could try and find that though. I'm not 100% sure about that. Do you have any idea of what the

00:31:40.480 source might be? Fuck. I don't even know what you would Google. I'll look around for it. Okay.

00:31:44.800 I took my best. Yeah. But, uh, so let's operate into the assumption. It may be true. Is it a good

00:31:51.180 or bad thing? And I'll tell you why I ask one, I'm sure a lot of conservatives and Christians are

00:31:55.380 like based, you know, based young men waiting for marriage. Yeah. And my pure Kings. And so, uh,

00:32:00.980 Seamus Coughlin, for instance, a good friend, he's on Tim Castile fairly often. He is a very Catholic.

00:32:05.760 And when I mentioned this, he said based. And I said, it's not, we're talking about guys who are 28,

00:32:11.580 who should be married, like by the conservative standard should be married and should not be

00:32:16.420 virgins. If we're talking about 28 year old, 30 year old men who are a third of them who are

00:32:21.040 virgins, we're talking about guys who have not like gotten married. They're not having a family,

00:32:25.160 they're not having kids and they're not having any relationships at all.

00:32:27.880 So, I mean, I personally want to be careful here to not shame virgins or, you know, anything like that.

00:32:34.200 But I think when we look at the more macro level, you're right. This is a trend that is not a good

00:32:39.660 thing because in a healthy society, we should be seeing people getting married, having those

00:32:43.400 relationships and starting their families. And I think the reason why that's not happening for a

00:32:47.480 lot of men is because the incentive of pursuing a relationship is, has been destroyed for many

00:32:52.300 reasons. Number one, we have pornography, which I mean, obviously sex throughout history has been a

00:32:57.380 pretty great motivator for men. And frankly, there's just for a lot of men, they're looking at the

00:33:01.920 dating market. They're looking at dealing with women and they're thinking, why bother? I can get

00:33:05.020 whatever I want on the internet, which is not a healthy thing because I mean, sex is about more than just

00:33:08.740 the physical aspect of it. You want to be building a relationship with somebody. And I think we also

00:33:13.140 have a lot of young men who are just frankly feeling so demoralized. They're dropping out of

00:33:17.120 society in a lot of different ways besides relationship like work and everything. And it's

00:33:20.260 all just contributing to, I guess, men not doing so well. Yeah. I remember when that headline came

00:33:25.820 out, there were a lot of trad cats on Twitter who were like based reject degeneracy, but that's

00:33:30.900 not happening. I'm not shaming virgins. However, there is more context to that number. I mean,

00:33:35.140 there's no way that 27% of guys, even if that figure is slightly outdated or maybe significantly

00:33:39.380 outdated, are actually abstaining. I mean, maybe there is this sort of like revolt against the

00:33:43.880 modern world. I want to abstain from guys who are maybe more online, more involved in right-wing

00:33:47.380 politics. But the average guy nowadays who is in that age demographic, who's a virgin,

00:33:51.800 isn't like living a sexually chaste lifestyle. I mean, he's probably addicted to pornography and he

00:33:56.440 probably struggles to make eye contact with waitresses, probably just like a very, you know,

00:34:00.600 introverted, antisocial guy. And I think that's because of, you know, maybe the father wasn't

00:34:05.480 present. I think fathers are like pretty much almost chiefly in charge of like the child's

00:34:08.840 socialization. Like you can usually tell, this is interesting too, when a child is raised by just

00:34:13.280 their father, you usually can't tell. But when they're raised by just their mother, you can tell

00:34:16.560 much easier, I think. I think because it largely affects how the child develops like socially.

00:34:21.320 Wait, in traditional families, doesn't the mother do most of the parenting? Like isn't the

00:34:25.520 traditional thing that the dad goes to her, like it comes home, he kind of watches TV and chills a

00:34:28.580 little bit. You might interact with the kids a little bit. But traditionally, I feel like the

00:34:30.780 mothers are the ones that are like driving their kids to school, taking their kids to football

00:34:33.900 practice. So that's like generally the mom's thing. And like the traditional relationships.

00:34:37.500 Probably. But I think dads play with their, especially their boys, a lot more in ways that

00:34:41.720 are engaging. They allow their boys to do things that are like more, I guess, adventurous or risky.

00:34:47.260 And I think that really like helps the way that they view the world and themselves as not fragile.

00:34:51.280 Because if you're antisocial, I mean, what are you ultimately afraid of? This person is not

00:34:54.700 going to like me. They're not going to talk to me. I'm just going to kind of stay in my bubble.

00:34:57.280 If you have a dad who's letting you like climb to the top of the play structure, play on rocks,

00:35:01.920 things like that, you're going to be like, wait a minute. I have agency. I am sovereign. I am not

00:35:06.060 afraid. I am not fragile. And I think that does actually affect how boys grow up and become young

00:35:10.600 men. Not just boys, but also women. Like the effect of fatherlessness is just as stark for women as it

00:35:15.700 is for men. You can actually chart like likelihood of teenage pregnancy, age of losing your virginity for

00:35:21.420 a woman. There's a big influence that fathers have on girls too. I think something that, so that article

00:35:26.020 that you brought up, this was the one that I was familiar with actually, and I had read it. I just

00:35:28.500 saw the headline. So I thought it was something different. I think that they're, so all of these

00:35:32.380 explanations are like fun and they kind of fit into our narrative of like fathers are important,

00:35:35.300 blah, blah, blah, which they are. I agree with, but there's always this huge like monster lurking

00:35:39.520 beneath the water that people seem a little bit reticent to blame or attack because it's not as much

00:35:43.740 fun. It doesn't play into our fun narratives. But I think that the, the two huge things that

00:35:47.600 they play into each other. One is lack of types of socialization. And two is the explosiveness of the

00:35:52.400 internet, which has dramatically played into that. I think that the internet has fundamentally and

00:35:56.360 radically altered the way that we associate with each other in some ways, positively. You can talk

00:36:00.840 to people all across the world. You can come on shows like Tim Pools and you can do all this stuff,

00:36:04.260 which is cool, but in other ways, incredibly negatively. And that a lot of the cool things

00:36:08.100 that happened with human socialization aren't things that like your parents necessarily prepare

00:36:12.620 you for. They're not things that you read a book about and meditate on. They're things that just

00:36:15.620 kind of happen naturally. Um, when I was in high school, um, first of all, social media didn't exist.

00:36:20.220 Really? Thank God. We had like MySpace and LiveJournal. Um, cell phones were used to like

00:36:24.460 set up social events and the social media that did exist like Facebook was exclusively used to like

00:36:28.280 track parties, right? So if you've got a group of friends that you see in real life, you see their

00:36:32.460 friends, you see their friends of friends, and then you go to like parties to talk with other people.

00:36:35.860 You go to parties, you see other people in these environments, a few things happen. One,

00:36:39.460 you're more likely to do like things like drinking and whatnot. Two, you're more likely to have

00:36:42.620 driver's license. Um, three, you're more likely to see girls or guys. And then four,

00:36:46.540 you're more likely to go on dates and have sex. Um, there's a lot of, uh,

00:36:49.780 graphs listed. If you're looking at the same thing, cause I looked it up to check this article.

00:36:52.880 If you look at like the, um, the, the bottom of these, uh, that page, you can see the numbers

00:36:57.100 on a lot of these socialization things have actually gone down quite a bit. So there's

00:37:00.260 between 94 and 2014. So that's not even all the way to 2023 where we're at now, right? Um,

00:37:05.620 in 1994, 84.7% of 12th graders had a driver's license. That number was down below 73%. So an 11,

00:37:12.820 12 point drop, um, by 2014, the tried alcohol number had decreased by 15 points that had gone

00:37:19.240 on a date decreased by 25 points, worked a job for pay dropped by, um, 16 points, right? You see this

00:37:27.500 like trend towards more education. Cause you got to go to college, you get a degree and more

00:37:30.780 socialization done exclusively online. And I don't know what discord servers you hang out with,

00:37:35.040 but they tend to be very gender segregated. If you're on a discord server where you're talking

00:37:38.620 about like edgy jokes and like video games and stuff all the time, there are no girls in there

00:37:41.800 ever. No, not to knock you to the servers. But, um, yeah, I think that the, I think the internet

00:37:45.300 has a lot of the life that worked for us only worked because it was so on rails. You go to

00:37:49.700 school, you have your friends, you have all this. And the internet stuff has like changed a lot of

00:37:52.720 our socialization in some ways for the worse. I agree. I wanted to respond because there's one

00:37:56.700 thing that we've talked about quite a bit and that's, uh, dating apps. And I think cell phones in

00:38:00.900 particular, not just the internet. You mentioned Facebook being used to track parties and stuff,

00:38:04.640 but that was probably back in that it was all desktop, you know,

00:38:08.620 was that true? Cell phone ubiquity around 2007, 2008, all of a sudden everyone's online every

00:38:14.040 single moment of the day. I've been on the internet my whole life, but I remember I'd go

00:38:18.820 out to the skate park. I have no idea what's going on in the world. I have a candy bar phone.

00:38:22.260 Then I'd go back home, get on the computer and see what's going on on Facebook and go,

00:38:25.400 Oh, how about that? Then we get, you know, with the advent of the iPhone, the, uh, the galaxy

00:38:30.440 from Android and all that stuff. Now, all of a sudden we're online 24 seven. And so one of the

00:38:35.400 things I think plays a role in, uh, the increase in male virginity into a higher age is the expanded

00:38:41.660 dating pool for younger women. So, and I'm not saying this is absolute. I'm saying it's likely

00:38:47.340 a contributing factor. So you have, as, as destiny, you've explained, it used to be like the in-person

00:38:53.060 interactions was a large component of how we did things. You get, uh, uh, a group of young people

00:38:58.560 between the ages of 18 and 22, they're all in college and that's their social circles.

00:39:03.340 They know each other. They talk to each other. There's some expanded network because someone

00:39:07.160 knows somebody went to a different school. So you might be hanging out in Chicago and you're like,

00:39:11.200 Hey, there's a party near UIC. We're going to go there. Then it's like, Oh, now there's a party

00:39:14.620 near Loyola, different school, different network, but people know each other. Still, however, the women

00:39:20.180 and the men are all of very comparable ages. Then we get mobile apps like, okay, Cupid and Tinder and

00:39:26.140 things like this, where you get online dating. Now, those 18 to 22 year old women in universities

00:39:32.360 who normally would have a network, 80% comprised of men, their own age. Now we're on dating apps

00:39:38.620 where they're getting dudes who are 30 with careers, money, convertibles, whatever you want to say.

00:39:43.080 They're now in the competition with these younger guys. How is a 20 year old guy going to compete with

00:39:48.200 a 28 year old guy, young woman? Let's say she's 20 years old. She has a network of friends and then

00:39:54.660 someone messages her on Facebook or whatever and says, Hey, you want to go hang out and catch a

00:39:59.360 movie later? And she goes, Oh yeah, that'd be awesome. Sounds super cool. Then she's on Tinder.

00:40:03.460 She gets matched with some dude who's 28, who's got, you know, makes 50, 60,000 a year. He's got a

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00:41:05.760 iGaming Ontario. When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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00:41:31.900 on care. Did I mention that we care? He says, hey, what's up? We want to go to dinner and then

00:41:40.300 drive down to the lake. And she's like, wow, that sounds like way more fun. How is the younger guy

00:41:43.960 going to compete with that? I mean, it's hard, but there's a couple things to keep on. One,

00:41:47.280 there's only so many older guys. You can't, it can't be like every older guy has like five women

00:41:51.240 because they're all younger and he's dating all the age pool. So one, there's only so many older

00:41:54.380 guys. Two, I think to some extent this has always been kind of a problem or, or that like there can

00:42:00.000 be older guys. I don't want to say creepy guys, but remember the whole Roy Moore thing where even in

00:42:05.340 that focus group, some of the people like, I'd be honored if my 16 or 18 year old daughter was hit on by a

00:42:09.960 30, 40 year old lawyer, whatever. I, I, the CNN or somebody did a focus group on that. Some of

00:42:14.180 those answers were wild. Um, so I think to some extent that's always been a problem, but

00:42:17.520 like, this is the thing I will reiterate. Um, and it's sad cause we've lost it. Uh, people always

00:42:22.960 obsess over trying to figure out like who's fucking who are women, hypergamous, are men chasing younger

00:42:26.820 women, blah, blah, blah. If you spend a lot of time in the real world and the data does bear this out,

00:42:30.460 the people that date and have sex with each other are the people that are in the same space as each

00:42:34.640 other. That has always been true. Yep. Co it's funny cause people online will say, Oh, don't fuck your coworkers.

00:42:39.320 Co-workers are always fucking at every server's job at every fucking white collar. Co-workers are in

00:42:43.940 the fucking YouTube world. Co-workers are always fucking each other. Number one, um, people that

00:42:48.320 go to school are making friends, making girlfriends, boyfriends. They're always doing this. People in

00:42:51.680 the same socioeconomic class, people that are similar race, people like in general, these trends are very

00:42:55.340 true. If you are in places where you're spending a lot of time around the opposite sex, you will date

00:42:59.780 and you will have sex. Like it just as a, as an evolution of, of our human history, that's always going to

00:43:04.500 happen. But if you start to remove yourself from these spaces, so as young men, especially if you're

00:43:09.260 entering these majors where it's like 95% men, if you're on comp sci, and then from there you bounce

00:43:13.220 into a job that's like, or if your socialization is online with people playing video games, it's

00:43:17.340 going to be exclusively male. Exactly. Yeah. You're online, you're doing heavily male majors. And then

00:43:22.020 when you get to your working life, it's 98% men, like you're fucked. Where are you going to meet

00:43:26.280 women? Right. At that point, are you going to go from, okay, I'm logging off of league of legends

00:43:29.700 today. I'm going to hop on Tinder when I, I haven't talked to a girl in like six years because all of the

00:43:34.300 majors you chose were male dominated. Now you're working like that. You have to be in spaces with women and start to

00:43:38.640 communicate with them. And that's like the most important thing when it comes to determining

00:43:41.240 success for dating. I think they're to even have the opportunity to, I think that's way more

00:43:44.780 important than being six feet tall or going to the gym all the time or doing those other things. You

00:43:48.620 have to have the practice to do it. You have to be in the right spaces for it to work.

00:43:51.380 I think you're right. They've even done studies about the likelihood of relationships where you've

00:43:55.080 met online versus in real life and the longevity of them and relationships online. A lot of people

00:43:59.960 have met online now and are married because it's not really a new thing. There's no stigma saying,

00:44:03.080 oh, we met online, but there is still something different than being able to meet that person

00:44:06.420 organically spend time with them. And I think it's a lot more how our parents or grandparents

00:44:10.620 used to like meet and court each other rather than it. Online dating has almost tried to make

00:44:16.820 your love life into, it's too commoditized. I think for a lot of people, the influence of the dad still

00:44:23.200 plays into that just insofar as like, you know, if your son is terminally online and you can tell that

00:44:27.920 he is sort of developing a socially, you should like interfere, but it's sort of actually like the

00:44:32.140 stereotype that he laid out where, you know, the dad comes home and he's just like drinking beer and

00:44:35.840 kind of just like, whatever, they're under my roof. It's better than what I was doing. And that is

00:44:39.140 actually a real problem. A lot of parents nowadays think that because their children are under their

00:44:43.720 roof, it's better than when I was a kid and I was going to parties and drinking and doing all this

00:44:47.340 stuff. But then you don't know what they're doing on their phone, whether it's like they're becoming

00:44:50.140 autistic or they're like getting scioped by TikTok into becoming trans. Like this is like a very real

00:44:54.720 thing that's happening. And so it was so sad too, during like the summer of love in 2020, you see all these

00:44:59.660 kids now exploiting like family dysfunction for clout. Like my dad won't say that George Floyd's life

00:45:04.160 matters. And dad's like, how did my daughter turn out this way? And it's like, cause you weren't

00:45:07.380 more involved, which, you know, honestly, I would even sympathize with the idea that like the

00:45:11.860 influx and proliferation of technology happened so rapidly. It's almost unfair to expect the average

00:45:17.480 American male to have been able to adapt to that, to save his child. But I do think there is something

00:45:22.120 to be said about, okay, now that we have that, as we go into gen alpha, you really need to be careful

00:45:26.240 with how much time your kids are spending online. The same way that now, like my generation sort of has

00:45:30.060 like a micro generation, you have like first wave zoomers, maybe like pre nine 11 and post nine

00:45:35.320 11 with how developed we are socially. You can see like with the advent of the iPhone and

00:45:40.080 smartphones, there really is a cutoff. Like, I don't feel like I can relate to kids five years

00:45:44.020 younger than me the same way that like millennials are like, Oh yeah, we're all millennials. How old

00:45:47.280 are zoomers now? Uh, shoot. Anywhere between like, what is it? 97 and 2005. Wait, how old are you?

00:45:53.300 23. Jesus. Is that good or bad? I'm 34. Okay. I just didn't realize that. But I think you're going to see

00:46:00.000 with like the, the generations to follow, you're going to see that same sort of dividing line,

00:46:03.580 but it's not going to be age because technologies here, it's going to be between the parents who

00:46:07.360 didn't care, gave their kids iPads and parents who were like, wait a minute, we have to go the

00:46:11.100 completely opposite direction and actively monitor their child's access to technology.

00:46:14.900 One thing that we've been talking about a little bit on Timcast IRL is that porn, porn on social media

00:46:21.460 would be, uh, it's, it's a public space where anyone has access to children can get on these places.

00:46:27.220 The idea that people would make porn available in a public setting would be unthinkable 20 or

00:46:32.160 so years ago. But for some reason, because it's the internet, we completely ignore the fact that

00:46:37.020 we've made all of this accessible to children. Your kid goes to a, uh, you know, we had a, we had a,

00:46:41.600 a video rental store when I was a kid and they had a purple curtain and it said adult section and you

00:46:47.080 could not go in there. They would not let you get to show an ID and then they'd let you in. And that's

00:46:51.460 where all the naughty bits were today. A kid can just pull up their phone, go on Twitter,

00:46:55.760 and there's porn everywhere. And it's like, nobody cares. This is obviously going to be

00:47:00.280 having, and it's not just about porn. It's about literally any kind of obscene graphic gore shock

00:47:06.540 content that children could not see before they were protected from. It seems like it's not just

00:47:12.040 that these social spaces exist on social media where someone can get socialized in a very strange

00:47:16.640 way or exploited by evil people. But it's also just even well in even well-intentioned posting of

00:47:22.940 news, right? Someone who's covering a big story and says, this is a shocking video. And it's

00:47:27.200 maybe a building exploding or something. Hunter Biden's cock again. Yeah, absolutely. But for

00:47:31.500 real, I mean, we're talking about major politics of the Hunter Biden laptop story and a kid

00:47:36.200 absolutely will at 13, if they have access to the internet and many do, they're going to see Hunter

00:47:41.620 Biden in the buff. Someone's going to send it to them. Some kid in their school is going to be like,

00:47:45.960 ha ha, look at this. I'm sending you Hunter Biden or whatever graphic images.

00:47:48.780 Because this didn't happen before the internet. I'm curious, to a certain degree, the ubiquity

00:47:54.900 of it. I am wholly unconvinced by these arguments. I agree that like porn for kids or whatever

00:47:59.180 should probably be reduced as much as it can. But like complaining about obscenity and media,

00:48:03.060 I feel like that's been a trend for honestly, probably since fucking Greek and Roman times

00:48:07.720 complaining. I know they did a lot for Shakespeare. They complained about obscenity. I know they did a

00:48:11.260 lot for Elvis Presley. They did a lot for rap music. They did a lot for, you know, when kids would

00:48:17.160 jerk off the girly mags or the target mag, or you'd watch showtime at, you know, 5am to see

00:48:22.120 the titty come through or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. On the blur when the, when the

00:48:26.220 stars would align. Um, I, I think that there's something to be said that this is probably not

00:48:30.380 a good thing, but I think that the more important thing that I would go back to focus on is I think

00:48:35.140 that the lack of socialization is the destructive aspect. I think that if you, because people will say

00:48:39.800 for instance, like, oh, kids spend so much time. I love, wait, you're my age, right? I'm 37. Okay. Did you ever have a

00:48:44.700 moment? I'm sort of God. Every like millennial had this moment. If you were into games, you have a

00:48:48.760 moment where your parents go to you and they say, listen, you're playing way too many computer games

00:48:52.380 or 20 video games. It's not healthy. Can you like get off and like watch some TV? Never happened to

00:48:56.520 me. You never, never had that happen to you before. Okay. I, I, I know that I think wasn't the average

00:49:01.000 American family's TV consumption. It was like four to six hours a night. It was insane amount of TV

00:49:05.280 consumption. Yeah. And people will point to the internet and go like, oh, the internet is killing

00:49:07.820 people. It's poisoning your minds because people are sitting in front of screens so much. We sat in front of

00:49:11.020 screens a lot in the eighties, nineties too, right? People would sit in front of the screens forever.

00:49:13.720 I think again, I would like to refocus or in my opinion, the, the dramatic change has been that

00:49:19.200 even though you can engage with all those screen formed, uh, you know, forms of entertainment or

00:49:23.040 jerk off to whatever mags you could find in the basement or whatever. The big thing this changes

00:49:26.420 now we've been able to socialize online. Whereas before, um, even if I like, I was a hardcore gamer

00:49:31.200 growing up, I fucking went to sleep when I got home from school, woke up at fucking 2 AM to play

00:49:35.480 video games. I would do shit like that. But even at that, if I want to see my friends, I had to hop on my

00:49:39.180 bike and go in and go to my friend's house. Um, there was just no substitute for it. I couldn't do that

00:49:42.840 online as much. And I think that was a really, really, really big deal that we don't do things

00:49:46.780 in real life anymore. I wonder if our objection to so much of the internet socialization, internet

00:49:51.780 socialization, like we say, Oh, this thing is shocking. This thing is shocking. Is that it's

00:49:56.180 fragmented. When I was younger, we, everybody watched the same shows. The Simpsons would come

00:50:02.200 on. Seinfeld was come on, would come on. Everybody, Star Trek was the biggest show syndicated on three

00:50:07.240 networks. And there were a handful of channels. Most people didn't have cable. So the Simpsons Thursday at,

00:50:12.140 you know, six or whatever, everybody's watching it. Everybody gets the references. Now we have the

00:50:17.220 internet where there's a whole just massive fracturing of all these different subcultures.

00:50:21.440 And someone is going to be socialized into a certain worldview that many other people will

00:50:27.040 think is strange, obnoxious, extreme. And many of them are. And I wonder if, if that's the issue.

00:50:32.140 Uh, my point being, you know, when I talk about getting access to the internet and seeing weird

00:50:35.840 things, it could be, and probably is that people thought the Simpsons was, was obscene.

00:50:41.140 How, you know, how, how, how dare they show these certain things?

00:50:43.940 And Beavis and Butthead.

00:50:44.540 Oh, definitely.

00:50:45.420 Ren and Stimpy.

00:50:46.280 Like, yeah.

00:50:46.740 Yeah. And you know, my, my mom had parental locks on the cable box when we finally got cable.

00:50:51.000 So we couldn't watch Beavis and Butthead and she would only make sure we could watch certain

00:50:54.180 episodes because some of them were too, were too, were, were, were, were really bad. So I,

00:50:57.900 I had parents who did that. That being said, it's a lot harder to control what your kids are

00:51:03.280 seeing because of the ease of access to the internet.

00:51:05.200 Mm-hmm. Yeah. And a lot of these tweakers are more sophisticated with their iPads than

00:51:08.680 the fucking parents are this way too. Yeah.

00:51:10.400 The, um, you know, the category of sanity I think is true and you can find like this

00:51:14.200 throughout history. Um, but I think that like parents being offended by the Simpsons or like

00:51:17.840 a Slayer album is definitely different than, you know, like the hardcore pornography that

00:51:22.260 any person with an iPhone or any internet access can just access like immediately. Um, I think that

00:51:27.000 has done something to the human brain, the male brain in particular, especially when they're young

00:51:30.800 and your brain is like in its most plastic form. I mean, we know that it reduces gray matter.

00:51:34.620 We know it affects the way that like neural pathways are formed, especially in regards

00:51:37.380 to like your socialization, your attraction. It can literally like warp your sexuality in

00:51:41.460 general. Um, which is why you see a lot of people who, you know, they get addicted to certain

00:51:44.840 types of pornography and then all of a sudden they want to wave different kinds of flags and

00:51:47.700 it's like, okay, I think we kind of know. They get ED. Yeah. No, that's real. There's been

00:51:50.940 like a thousand percent increase in the last 15 years because of things like pornography.

00:51:55.180 And so I think even if you would have showed like, you know, the parents in say 1989 or whenever

00:51:59.280 the Simpsons came out, like, Hey, Homer Simpson, he's crude, but 30 years from now, your child is

00:52:04.480 going to have this device and it's going to be able to do this. They'd be like, okay, I'll take

00:52:07.540 the Simpsons. That's fine. Like they definitely would have understood the degrees and probably

00:52:10.960 would have been more willing to draw like a practical line. And like you said too, I mean,

00:52:14.080 any child can access this. And so a lot of parents, like when I speak about this issue on my

00:52:17.740 channel, they'll be like, Oh, well, you know, it doesn't matter. Just be a good parent. And it's like,

00:52:22.480 it's not enough to just be a good parent. I mean, if your child has internet access and they're 13 years old,

00:52:27.140 they're going to find it just because that's like the nature of the child. So you have to be more

00:52:30.440 proactive as a parent to shield them because it's everywhere. It's on social media. And if not even

00:52:34.260 explicitly on social media, it's like a thirst trap. It's like some TikTok girl who's going to

00:52:38.380 try to like, you know, sigh up your kid into like, Oh, where's this video from? Then he looks it up

00:52:41.820 anyways. Well, it's funny. Last night we were talking about the whole pornography online thing.

00:52:45.080 And I was reading the comments and a lot of them were, Oh, Tim, you're all about personal

00:52:48.200 responsibility, but you want other people to raise your kids. It's not really about that. I mean,

00:52:52.280 we're talking about how all of these different subcultures that have kind of become radicalized

00:52:56.480 because they've been segregated. Yeah. It's, it's bad for children and the way they're socialized,

00:53:00.220 but it's also not good for adults. So I think more broadly, the reason why thirst traps aren't

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00:54:27.360 on care. Did I mention that we care? A kid could be on there, but I think it's also not good even if

00:54:35.420 you're an adult, if you're a single man, I don't think it's a healthy way to be interacting with women

00:54:39.160 solely. Like if you're not seeing them on your day to day and actually forming relationships,

00:54:43.320 interpersonal ones, platonic ones with women, and your only exposure to women is through a

00:54:47.440 sexualized lens, I don't think that's healthy. I think that's super true. If you, if you interact

00:54:52.440 with enough of a certain type of person, I think it immunizes you against a lot of like the negative

00:54:58.280 or more precarious stereotypes you might see. So if you interact with black people, you're not going

00:55:02.320 to come away listening to a rap song like every black person is a criminal. Or if you interact with

00:55:05.360 women in real life, you're not going to come away thinking like every woman wants to have her face slapped

00:55:08.740 while she's getting bukkakied by 20, you know, BBCs or whatever. Having the actual like real life

00:55:15.040 interactions, I can conserve as a good countering effect of things you see online. I thought you

00:55:18.640 were going to say something like if you interact with women, you realize they're not all gold

00:55:21.100 diggers or something, but you know, your analogy works too. Thanks. Well, we're talking about

00:55:23.980 relationships and porn, so you know, it's true. I do have, I have good news and bad news for the

00:55:27.500 conservatives. Uh, first, the good news, the good news is only fans cannot survive. Only fans

00:55:33.700 inevitably will cease to exist as this hub for, for women to post images of themselves in exchange

00:55:39.640 for money. Uh, the bad news is the reason why it's going to be other dudes using AI to make

00:55:44.860 graphic images to sell to other guys. And that's going to shove women out of the pornography market

00:55:49.240 because, uh, it's already starting to happen. But as, okay, as a woman, it's hard for me to wrap

00:55:52.860 my mind around something like AI pornography. Wouldn't part of the appeal of pornography be that it is a real

00:55:57.440 person. I think even too, it's like with only fans in particular, like a lot of boomers who don't get it.

00:56:02.000 Not that I get it, but they're like, you know, why don't you just go watch like, you know, regular

00:56:05.440 porn? It's like the parasocial aspect, like guys like, you know, talking to her and it's probably

00:56:10.320 will be another guy too. Maybe it'll literally be like an AI model. And then some Indian guy is

00:56:14.000 going to be like, Oh, how was your day doing the talking? They like, you know, feeling like I'm

00:56:17.460 supporting this girl. I'm talking to her. This is what's already happening. And it's crazy.

00:56:22.180 People are using AI to generate women and to create Instagram profiles where they automatically

00:56:28.880 upload AI generated images and dudes are buying into it. Fuck. There was a girl that I was talking

00:56:34.020 to for like two or three days on Instagram. And for, I, I talked to a few people and I, um,

00:56:38.060 and I ended up clicking through the profile cause I was curious when I started looking at pictures

00:56:40.600 close and I realized, wait a sec. They got you. This is a fucking AI generated. I absolutely could

00:56:46.100 tell. I was like, fuck. So yeah, that is absolutely happening. And you mentioned, isn't part of the

00:56:49.800 appeal that it's a real person. Not if you are someone who is hyper online playing world of

00:56:54.800 Warcraft all day and you're into like elves and furries or something, you're going to want to

00:57:00.200 want, you're, you're, you're going to have some weird fetish for things that don't exist in the

00:57:04.020 real world. This is why, uh, erectile dysfunction is on the rise because dudes are getting hyper,

00:57:10.060 uh, what? I don't even know what the right word is. Desensitized. Yeah. Like, and, and,

00:57:14.680 and they're watching weird things and developing weird paraphilias or fetishes to where like,

00:57:20.080 like, look, yo, there's Simpsons porn. It's like rule 34. Like it, if it exists, there is porn of

00:57:25.020 it. So guys aren't attracted to regular women. They want the AI generated weird stuff. I think

00:57:33.120 that's still a niche in terms of, cause the vast majority of porn is still like real people, but

00:57:36.480 hentai and 3d porn shit does exist. I think there is an aspect where you want a real person, but I

00:57:41.980 think that real person is actually a stand in for something that looks convincingly real. We just

00:57:47.100 haven't gotten that in our minds yet. Here's like a prediction that I make. And I actually,

00:57:50.740 I made this prediction that I went and looked and I saw that parts of this already come true.

00:57:53.780 The idea of having like an AI girlfriend, have you ever seen the movie her? Yes. Okay. The idea

00:57:59.100 of having a girlfriend on his face seems absurd. And even when you think of it a little bit more,

00:58:02.220 it seems even more absurd, but I genuinely feel that if you could flip a switch to where these

00:58:07.220 conversations got good enough, I actually think there would be like a huge cascading effect where

00:58:12.140 people are like, this is actually, I want this. Um, there's a, there's a program called,

00:58:16.600 I don't want to shut it out, I guess, because now I'm worried about people who are finding it out.

00:58:19.480 But I did some searching. I found one where you can have like AI girlfriends and stuff

00:58:22.060 and watching these forums, whenever they do like a software update and people are like,

00:58:26.060 my person's not talking to me the same anymore. This is the saddest of my life. Or like my wife

00:58:29.520 died. And now like my person doesn't even treat me the same because of this, like patches are a way

00:58:33.280 that I can roll them back. It's like hyper obsessive stuff. And I'm like, oh my God, this is like insane.

00:58:38.480 Yeah. There's a, there's a movie I was talking about last night called Simulant.

00:58:40.760 And, uh, it's got, uh, Sima, we talked about Simu Liu. Is that his name? Uh, it's about,

00:58:47.520 there are AI robots of people, this man and this woman, spoiler alert, I guess,

00:58:53.340 if you want to see the movie on spoiler, uh, they get AI version, robot versions of themselves

00:58:57.880 made in the event. One of them dies and they download their memories into it. Guy dies in a car

00:59:02.620 accident. She activates the robot, gets super creeped out by it because it's not him. And it's like a

00:59:08.200 facsimile and she has absolute authority over it. So it's just completely different social

00:59:12.620 dynamic. But I actually feel that that there is a strong possibility for that in, in robotics,

00:59:20.480 at least the mind of the AI is, is being formed the body far further behind. You know, you, you have

00:59:28.140 blow up dolls, you have real girls or whatever they're called the real dolls or whatever they're

00:59:31.140 called. And you have robotics, uh, being developed. I think that's far further behind where

00:59:37.200 like chat bots and language stuff is a lot easier for us to do than to build a full functioning

00:59:41.320 robot that can be a wife or a husband or something. But I feel like given the opportunity,

00:59:46.860 people are going to choose that. They're going to choose the perfect ideal, be whatever you want,

00:59:51.600 which is not a good thing because in a healthy relationship, you're going to have someone who

00:59:56.780 actually cares about you, genuinely cares about you. They're going to call you out when you're going

01:00:00.180 down the wrong path, when you're doing something that's bad for you. That's someone who actually

01:00:02.900 loves you. But if you're only forming relationships with AI girlfriend chat bots, they're going to,

01:00:06.680 they're not going to do that because the incentive is just to keep you coming back and keep you paying

01:00:10.360 the subscription mall or anything. So you're a lot of young men are going to be led down very dark

01:00:14.760 paths because in a healthy relationship, the other person, their only concern shouldn't just be to

01:00:19.680 keep you happy and keep you logging on. Like it would be with an AI. Here's the thing about the AI

01:00:23.500 girlfriend that you need to need to imagine. You have these chat bots like, like her, for instance,

01:00:29.100 is a good example. I didn't see it, but I think the premise was that her was dating everybody or

01:00:33.140 something like that. Like everybody. That's how it kind of evolves. But she starts off as just his,

01:00:37.320 like his version of a Siri who is AI. And then it kind of devolves into something. Imagine a gigantic

01:00:43.140 demonic octopus and all of its tentacles are reaching out and each tentacle has a mask on it.

01:00:51.000 And, and people are talking to one mask, like what a great person. And it's actually this gigantic

01:00:55.900 mass. The AI is one system acting like individuals that is, that is horrifying. And everyone's just

01:01:03.840 like staring at it. Like, Oh yeah, girlfriend. It's so good. That creeps me out. There's actually

01:01:09.720 a Futurama, uh, movie. Oh yeah. Right. Yep. Yep. So let's, let's, let's do this. I have this tweet

01:01:15.920 from Adam 22 because this was big in the news and everybody was ragging on this guy. And I, you can't

01:01:20.300 say he's not funny. Uh, they're calling him a cuck. And I guess it's because his wife, uh, slept with

01:01:24.880 another guy. He posted this image, said, why do people keep tweeting this at me? I don't get it.

01:01:29.020 And it's a woman pregnant with a black baby and a man smiling and putting his hands on the woman's

01:01:33.020 stomach. So I'm interested in, uh, you know, as we move the conversation for, for the discussion

01:01:38.940 and into monogamy, you mentioned earlier, if everybody was in an open relationship, there

01:01:43.200 would be no infidelity, which was by the way, that was a joke, but yeah, well, yeah, sure. Uh, but

01:01:47.960 you know, the, here's the idea. I mean, we're seeing a lot of this rise up polycules. Uh, this guy,

01:01:54.480 uh, being called a cuck because his wife, I guess, what is, what did she did? What was

01:01:58.560 is that literally cuckoldry? Like it's not just, he's being called when that would make

01:02:01.660 him. No, no. I think a cuckoldry is a fetish where you like watching your wife get, get banged.

01:02:06.240 Right. Is that what it is? Traditionally involves some aspect of humiliation, but some people

01:02:09.900 cuck, cuck hunting has become like the most obsessive, like projection of insecurity, like

01:02:14.600 that everybody in the red pill and larger space in the internet where people like obsessed

01:02:18.120 with like finding cucks and seeing cucks and calling people cucks. Like if your girlfriend fucked

01:02:21.880 too many guys in the past are eternally being cucked. Um, sometimes if you're a dad, having

01:02:25.800 a daughter can make you a cuck because he was training her to get fucked by another guy.

01:02:28.680 Like every, the cuck hunting is like an insane level of projection of insecurity today, but

01:02:33.240 the word, uh, it does go back, you know, hundreds of years in the English tradition. And it's not

01:02:37.360 just a guy who has cheated on. Like, you know, if you come home and your wife's banging another

01:02:40.880 guy, guys, unfortunately be like, you're a cuck. But traditionally what it means is the

01:02:45.160 guy who is like rationalizing it. Someone like Adam 22, who's like, yeah, my wife is sleeping

01:02:49.680 with other guys, but it's okay because, uh, I'm making money on it and I'm going to tweet

01:02:53.560 this funny meme and it's going to go viral and people are going to subscribe to the only

01:02:56.540 fans for $5 a month or something like that. Didn't this, wasn't, wasn't this something

01:03:00.280 with a Hunter Avalone as well? I don't know. I guess a lot messier, but we love Hunter.

01:03:05.100 Oh, a lot messier. Yeah. I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't really care about the personal

01:03:08.740 drama. And you know, my attitude is like, dude, I really don't care what this Adam guy is

01:03:13.240 doing. I don't care what his relationship or his, his, his, what he, what he likes and what

01:03:17.900 he doesn't like, what he wants his wife to do or not do. But I do think, I think it's

01:03:22.100 interesting. And this is a big culture war debate, honor and shame around whether or not

01:03:26.960 you're in an open relationship or monogamous relationship, whether or not you are emasculated

01:03:31.540 because your wife has sex with other men. Personally, not my cup of tea. I like, I prefer

01:03:36.100 monogamy. I, I, I'm not interested in any of that stuff. I also just don't care what other

01:03:41.460 people do. So the question is, is it bad for society? Is it in some way emasculating? What

01:03:46.820 do you guys think? I mean, is it, is it bad for society? I don't know if that's, I think

01:03:51.340 what probably is best for people to be able to pick their own relationship styles and sort

01:03:54.460 themselves out that way. Like 50% of marriages ending divorce is probably bad for society,

01:03:58.660 right? If those people would have been better off in some other situation in terms of relationship

01:04:02.560 style, it'd probably be better for society. Um, would it be better? Are those, are those

01:04:06.100 our choices though? Either, either 50% of marriages are ending divorce or people just have open

01:04:10.580 relationships because all of this is very new. So I think a lot of people act as if,

01:04:13.880 well, it's either, it's either polyamory or divorce is, well, a lot of human history kind

01:04:18.340 of bears that perhaps. Yeah. I'm not saying, I'm not saying that it has to be one or the

01:04:21.820 other. I'm just saying that railroading everyone into monogamous relationships is probably not,

01:04:25.480 that's definitely not the best idea. Railroading everybody to that with a divorce or what it is

01:04:28.860 now, that's not working. Um, I'm not saying that like, it needs to be, everybody has to be

01:04:32.780 polyamorous or open or whatever, because I don't even think the majority, I don't even think

01:04:35.340 a, a, a plurality of people can handle those types of relationship styles. Um, but yeah,

01:04:39.600 I think that letting people, I think the important thing is you let people explore it,

01:04:42.480 you let people figure out what they want. Some people try some things they don't like. If they

01:04:44.880 try other things, that's fine. Um, but I think that it's important to, I would say like give

01:04:48.500 people the, the freedom to explore. Um, if you don't like a certain relationship style, I think

01:04:52.600 that's fine. I don't think it's bad if a person wants to be monogamous or they want to be polyamorous

01:04:55.720 or, um, open or whatever. But I think it's weird that sometimes people obsess over and meat watch other

01:05:01.220 people's relationship styles so much. Like I, like there are people, I think it's totally fair to look at

01:05:05.680 Adam 22 situation. I mean, they do both do porn. So it's like a, that's already like out there,

01:05:09.540 but like to look at his situation, like, I don't think I would ever do that. I don't,

01:05:12.040 I wouldn't want that. I think that's totally fine. It gets really weird how obsessive people are over

01:05:16.400 like the dicks and pussies of people that they don't like though. I think that's kind of weird,

01:05:19.880 but it's weird to obsess over individuals that you don't know and their relationships. But I think

01:05:24.980 more broadly, if we are talking about on a societal level, we know the best environment to raise kids

01:05:30.540 in. And so I don't think it's just being authoritarian for people to say, this is probably not a good

01:05:34.780 trend that we're heading in. And therefore, even if I don't care about what this individual guy

01:05:38.000 does, this is still not, not something we should be embracing. We should be criticizing it because

01:05:42.400 this does have societal effects. This does affect the lives of children who aren't going to grow up

01:05:46.480 in stable homes where, but with both a mother and a father, because these relationships are

01:05:49.860 naturally going to be volatile. So I think we, we, there is a good reason for us to criticize it.

01:05:54.260 Sure. But I mean, like, I mean, one, the best, I'm pretty sure statistically speaking,

01:05:57.080 the best household raised kids is two gay parents. So like already like this. Based on, based on what?

01:06:01.160 Is that real? Because I think it's because gay parents, um, have to jump through a few more

01:06:04.860 hoops when it comes to adoption. What are gay parents? What is that? It's a man and a man.

01:06:08.500 How does that work? So you're saying, well, it's called adoption. That doesn't make you a parent

01:06:12.580 necessarily. If you're two men and you like adopt a child. Is this the next Matt Walsh documentary?

01:06:16.880 What is a parent? I mean, I'm just saying that the style of household, like obviously a broken

01:06:23.280 household, the traditional broken household, I think we all agree is horrible for children. So man

01:06:28.040 abandons mom, no child support. Mom has to work and fend for herself and take care of the kid

01:06:32.720 and is usually in a shitty neighborhood. That's the worst outcome. I think we all agree with that.

01:06:35.980 But then like, again, if you've got the 50% of marriages ending divorced, you've got like all

01:06:39.740 sorts of problems relating to like only half of women even get their full child support and everything.

01:06:42.620 That style is not working right.

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01:08:09.640 Now, but that style is not monogamy. Like that's not traditional monogamy. What we have with no

01:08:16.360 fault divorce, this kind of exploded. That's representative of the monogamous and marriage

01:08:20.800 lifestyle now, but historically that has not been the case. So, I mean, I think there's grounds for

01:08:24.980 also bringing in the question of divorce into all of this. We're too keen to, I guess. And obviously I'm

01:08:30.060 not talking about, oh, your husband beats you. What was that? Whatever clip. Endure. Like that's not what

01:08:34.600 I'm saying. I'll take credit for that. Was that you? Yeah. Well, no, I wasn't the one that said

01:08:39.820 endure. That was our friend. That was our friend MLD. What I said was, and Destiny understands this

01:08:45.780 as a former Catholic, is his wife brought up divorce. And I said, you know, I don't believe

01:08:49.220 in divorce. It's not a real thing. I was married in the Catholic church too. So I know that that's,

01:08:52.380 it's off the table. Yeah. So I meant that in like a very sort of like metaphysical sense. I didn't

01:08:56.360 mean like literally like, you know, separate. And so later on, I did say like in that same monologue,

01:09:00.320 like, yeah, obviously separate, get yourself out of that situation. Destiny's wife clipped that out.

01:09:04.200 I understand. You got to play the game. That's fine. I'm not mad. To be fair. Didn't you say

01:09:07.280 divorce should be illegal? I mean, well, that's probably true as well, but like a separate

01:09:12.380 conversation, but she is right that, you know, with things like no fault divorce, as that started

01:09:16.620 to be integrated throughout the country, you saw states that were passing these laws had couples

01:09:20.640 reporting like increased likelihood of considering that as even an option. So I think the like virtue and

01:09:25.540 nobility of marriage is like you're in this for the long haul. There is no way out. And so you find a

01:09:29.300 way to make it work. And it's kind of like with abortion, we're like, well, if I know that like worst case

01:09:33.160 scenario, I can get divorced. I can just kill the kid. That tends to happen more often because people

01:09:36.940 just don't commit. I was going to say to your point about raising kids in the, in the better

01:09:42.680 household or what we know is good for kids. I think it's fair to say that there is an overlap between

01:09:47.500 the people who are more likely to abort their kids and people who are likely to be in open

01:09:50.960 relationships, right? Conservatives, more likely to be monogamous, less likely to get an abortion.

01:09:55.160 So a lot of these, these, uh, dating preferences that involve multiple people or things like that,

01:10:01.740 less likely to result in having kids. I mean, I don't think that's necessarily the case. We could

01:10:07.580 say maybe less likely, but ultimately there are going to be kids in situations like this and

01:10:11.680 likelihood of abuse. When you have a non-biologically related father in, in a household, it skyrockets.

01:10:17.100 And that's just talking about the extreme case, extreme case of abuse, not even to mention just

01:10:21.620 general socialization and stuff like that. So I think this is not a good trend. It's not healthy

01:10:25.480 for society. Does that mean that we should find where this Adam 22 guy lives and kind of tar and

01:10:31.080 feather him? No, but we should absolutely be able to say, this is not where we want to be going.

01:10:36.640 I do want to ask you a follow-up too. You mentioned gay parents are traditional, are, are, are.

01:10:40.860 I think they score the best in outcomes because of the hoops after gender free adoption.

01:10:44.020 My question was, does that exclude lesbian parents?

01:10:46.900 I think it's only for gay parents are the ones I've seen it.

01:10:49.360 The red pill people would, yeah, that's what red pill people might say.

01:10:52.480 I'm sorry.

01:10:53.100 It's just your two fathers even better.

01:10:54.420 Because the lesbians, they like beat the crap out of each other.

01:10:56.080 The ultimate evolution of red pill is going to be guys just realizing that being gay is

01:11:00.000 better. Have sex with your homies, improve each other's businesses. Don't deal with crazy

01:11:04.480 fucking women. No periods, no pregnancies. Like it's just the best way to go.

01:11:08.660 Ultra McTow.

01:11:09.020 Yeah, exactly.

01:11:10.080 Just dudes being bros and nothing else.

01:11:11.860 Women exist for social credit only.

01:11:14.020 I made that joke because there's been this thing going around about males breastfeeding,

01:11:18.020 trans women inducing lactation to breastfeed babies. And so my joke was that now that we've

01:11:23.640 grown a sheep in a bag. They have this bag, they put the sheep in it and it grew. And so it's

01:11:29.580 like if we can grow babies in pods, like have you guys seen that commercial that went viral

01:11:33.340 where it was like in the future and it shows all these pods with the babies in it? What do you

01:11:36.640 need women for? The dudes can breastfeed? The pods can grow the babies? It'll just be a bunch

01:11:40.820 of dudes hanging out, drinking beers, banging each other. They don't need women for anything.

01:11:45.140 Based.

01:11:48.000 Yeah, that's weird.

01:11:49.480 It is. Absolutely. I mean, there's a lot to break down in that, like growing babies in

01:11:57.620 test tubes. Does it kind of feel like, I shouldn't say test tubes, but in pods, does it seem like

01:12:03.000 that's where we're going?

01:12:03.780 That's absolutely where we're going. We're already commoditizing birth with things like

01:12:06.960 surrogacy. So I don't think test tubes is that far. And I think the most dystopian part

01:12:12.500 of that would be babies being sold and bought as commodities, which isn't dependent on the

01:12:16.440 test tube that's happening right now. Yeah, I think that we've become much more degenerate

01:12:20.800 and general as a society, especially in terms of relationships. Like people aren't raised to

01:12:24.660 be husbands or wives. People aren't taught about these virtues that are important for,

01:12:29.040 you know, being in a successful monogamous relationship. You know, I've gone to many

01:12:32.560 relatives like 50th wedding anniversary parties. Yeah, they'll make jokes about like,

01:12:36.780 oh, I hate my wife. Just sort of like a time, timely thing, I guess. But ultimately they

01:12:40.180 have like very successful marriages. And I think that as we've sort of moved away from

01:12:44.260 those things, you're seeing more problems. The divorce rate is higher. People are exploring

01:12:47.540 alternatives. But I don't think it's better. I don't think the answer to not doing marriage

01:12:50.860 correctly because you weren't ready for that responsibility is to abandon the idea of monogamy

01:12:55.140 and then try to pursue something like an open relationship, which for some people, it does

01:12:58.520 work. I'm not going to like a lot of the trad cats want to like look at Destiny and be like,

01:13:02.120 he's miserable with his like Aryan snow princess wife and millions of dollars. I'm not going to make

01:13:07.100 that argument. For some people, it does work. The problem is I feel an obligation to someone

01:13:12.100 with an audience, to shame that type of relationship because it cannot be normalized

01:13:15.700 within the consciousness of the masses as an alternative. We must pursue what is right and

01:13:20.300 true. And if some people want to deviate, that's fine. We'll round them up later. But for the time

01:13:24.400 being, we have to pursue what we know works. And I just don't think these alternate models work,

01:13:27.920 let alone at a mass scale. Right. And I think there's a good point to be made there. We can talk

01:13:31.900 about something not working because the actual outcomes are just not practical, not pragmatic. But

01:13:36.800 there's also the question that's kind of separate of, is it in line with, I guess,

01:13:41.100 what is true and just, which is something that I think Christians have started falling off with

01:13:45.180 completely. And you mentioned the whole gay parent thing. I don't think we do enough shaming of how

01:13:49.540 like straight couples ruined marriage before gays even got into it. True. Where did all these open

01:13:54.520 relationship poly people come from? Yeah, they came from monogamous relationships. That's the

01:13:58.780 problem. See, so clearly it's not the superior relationship. Do you remember when Chelsea Handler had

01:14:02.460 that viral video? See, this is the silly thing, you know, in culture war politics. I got, I got roped into

01:14:07.360 criticism. So, you know, Ben Shapiro, a handful of other people are like, Chelsea

01:14:10.800 Handler is miserable. She's got no kids in her life and she's single. I never said that, but they

01:14:17.220 acted like I did. Chelsea Handler made that video where she says she wakes up in the morning, does

01:14:21.220 drugs and masturbates. And I said, that woman is probably happier than a pig in shit. She's like

01:14:25.940 doing whatever she wants. She's rich. I don't see her as being unhappy. I think a lot of this is

01:14:32.240 projection from people who think that lifestyle is a net detriment, need them to be unhappy.

01:14:38.180 Yes. This is something I try to communicate to people and it's impossible. I don't know if it

01:14:41.340 comes with age or experience or what, but, um, one of the most detrimental things that you can

01:14:45.720 operate through in life is that there's some sort of like karmic balance that that guy that bullied

01:14:50.640 you in high school, he's going to grow up and he's going to be fucking miserable. I know, but

01:14:53.700 he might not be, he might have a dad that owns a business and he might not only, not only might he

01:14:58.060 not be miserable, he might be super happy. He might realize what he was wrong. He might live a more

01:15:01.940 virtuous and better life than you ever will. There are people that are truly shitty people that are happy and

01:15:05.980 have fun and do good. And they learn from the mistakes. This running around in the world and

01:15:10.280 operating under this assumption that like that guy, this is why the cuck hunting stuff is so fun to

01:15:13.680 me is these people, a lot of them virgins, a lot of them miserable for a lot of reasons. So why

01:15:17.800 they consume all this content will be on Twitter, tweeting it like Adam 22 or me like, I know

01:15:21.760 fucking miserable. You fucking are. Cause if you fucking ever do this shit. And it's like, bro,

01:15:26.040 are you okay? Like healthy people don't spend people draw so many, I've got so much fan art of me

01:15:30.140 watching my wife fucking some black dude. I'm like, bro, there's no way that a healthy guy is

01:15:34.020 drawing this picture. Yeah. The whole time, like they can be like, Oh, I know this is going to

01:15:38.440 fucking trigger the fuck out of him. I like, dude, that's kind of like what we were talking

01:15:42.300 about earlier. Like, yeah, it is like Jesus of the appeal of that whole genre of content is like

01:15:47.360 that guy, just like Stacy's going to be miserable. She's going to hit the wall. So you've got like

01:15:52.720 some guys like, don't worry, little bro. I've got the suit. I've got the watch. Shut up, bitch. And he's

01:15:57.620 like, yeah, get her. I think, I think for a lot of conservatives, the reason why they would say Chelsea

01:16:03.820 Handler is miserable, miserable, actually stems from the conservative view that society would

01:16:08.960 improve or be better with stable relationships where kids are raised by a mother and a father.

01:16:13.640 Not just that, but it's also the conservative view that something that is, I guess, in terms of your

01:16:20.280 sensories, sensory, your senses, something that is good and pleasurable, that is not necessarily the

01:16:26.420 highest end. We are not put on this earth. I don't know. The meaning of life for me is not just to

01:16:30.280 pursue hedonistic ends. So Chelsea Handler, she has drugs and a big house. That's nice. But is

01:16:36.660 there actual like further like lifelong joy in that? Or is she just kind of having having fun?

01:16:42.760 Those things are not the same. And I think conservatives don't do a good job articulating

01:16:46.160 that because obviously she's a millionaire. She's having a good time. But does that bring

01:16:49.860 her deeper meaning? Yeah, this is the scary thing about short sightedness of the conservative

01:16:54.460 position in saying that like destiny would be unhappy or Chelsea Handler would be unhappy.

01:16:58.280 the problem. We don't we don't take the time to define what happiness is.

01:17:01.940 Well, but I think the the the fear that I have is we would be too happy. You know, there's this

01:17:09.080 this quote I read a long time ago when I was reading about Fermi's paradox and some scientist

01:17:13.360 guy, you guys probably find the quote. He said, if humans ever, you know, greet and shake hands

01:17:18.320 with aliens, it will be not to celebrate overcoming nuclear weapons, but because we overcame the

01:17:23.340 Xbox in that humans are, for whatever reason, being driven towards pleasurable outcomes.

01:17:29.680 It's like the experiment we do with the mice where we put the electrode in the brain to stimulate

01:17:32.860 dopamine, like you mentioned the other night, the rat or the mouse would just keep spamming the

01:17:36.820 button because it feels good. And that's what we're doing. So I think when conservatives come

01:17:41.900 out and they say Chelsea Handler is miserable, I'm like, no way, dude, she's happier than someone's

01:17:46.300 probably ever been. And that actually is the issue.

01:17:49.380 No, but that she's not happier than someone could ever be. She's having more fun, but that's

01:17:54.820 not the same. And she's I disagree. I think she's stimulating dopamine to the extreme degree.

01:18:00.380 What Lauren is getting at is and it's a really good point, but people don't talk about it

01:18:03.600 because they're too busy tearing down other things than making good arguments for their

01:18:05.920 own things. There's a difference between happiness and fulfillment.

01:18:09.300 Yes. Yeah. Happiness is scrolling TikTok for 12 hours. Fulfillment is spending 12 hours

01:18:13.500 reading a book and finishing it, right? There's a, there's a marked difference in the body,

01:18:16.940 the way that affects your psychology, the way that it impacts the way you move through life

01:18:20.760 because people that are more willing to endure some fiction to reach some fulfillment are probably

01:18:24.780 going to have holistically a better outcome. But yeah, but when people spend all their time

01:18:27.480 shitting out other people's happiness, it's like, it doesn't seem like you're advocating very

01:18:29.940 well for your lifestyle yet. So, so I guess the better way to frame it is short-term happiness

01:18:32.940 versus long-term happiness in that you're right. You know, someone who has a family and kids

01:18:37.880 and is, you know, they're, they're older and they can see all their grandkids and they see

01:18:40.520 everything they've done is going to have this, this like profound, like, wow. And somebody who

01:18:45.080 just did drugs and masturbated all day is going to be older and be like, well, you know, I can do

01:18:48.520 that again. I guess the difference is if you exercise every day and eat healthy, you're going

01:18:54.480 to feel really, really good. But when you're, when you're sitting in that moment, eating a chocolate

01:18:59.420 fudge sundae, you feel really good right now. And so having that balance is important.

01:19:03.880 There's a difficult thing striking that balance too. I remember I got into an argument with one guy,

01:19:07.120 this was like four or five years ago. We were arguing about investing money. Um, I think it

01:19:11.200 was another content creator and this guy fucking, this guy blew every fucking dollar that he had.

01:19:15.300 And I remember talking to him. He was like, our jobs are like pretty like transitory. Like,

01:19:18.420 I don't know how long I'm going to be doing this. Aren't you scared that you're like wasting all of

01:19:22.040 your money right now? Like you don't invest anything. And the guy's like, well, aren't you scared that you

01:19:25.380 won't get to have fun to spend any money until you're 45? And I was like, fuck, I guess maybe. Damn. I didn't think

01:19:30.820 about it that way. And he's like, yeah, you know, like I might have some fucky shit when I'm like 40 and 50 and 60 or

01:19:34.920 whatever. But like, I'm in my twenties right now. I want to have a lot of fucking fun. And I think

01:19:37.780 the memories are making right now are really cool. And I'm like, okay. And I'm not, now I'm not

01:19:40.960 advocating that you should spend all of your money today, accumulate a ton of debt and then live on

01:19:43.940 social security or be fucked for the rest of your life. But I mean, like there is something to be

01:19:48.260 said for striking a balance. It can't be all arduous, suffering, vegetarian, gym every day, no fun

01:19:55.020 whatsoever for your life. Like you have to find a way to balance the happiness and the fulfillment at the

01:19:58.600 same time. I, I do think that, uh, there is a high likelihood that the modern get ready for a Las Vegas

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01:21:03.540 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

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01:21:33.240 Culture around, you know, free sex, do whatever you want, you know, very short-term thinking is

01:21:39.180 going to result in a lot of unhappy people. I think we're actually seeing it already in that

01:21:43.580 many millennials and younger have little to no skill. And so you've got people who are struggling

01:21:50.640 to find work, don't have no fulfillment. They feel like they have no purpose. That's terrifying

01:21:55.600 when you think about where that goes in 20 or 30 years. But I wonder, I wonder because

01:22:00.860 people's perspectives change. But when you look at that common trope of nobody on their deathbed ever

01:22:06.260 said, I wish I worked more, you know, everyone's always like, where's my family and stuff. There's

01:22:10.160 going to be a lot of people. I was talking about this with Chelsea Handler. This was my

01:22:13.160 criticism of her was. It was not that she was unhappy. I don't think she's unhappy. I think

01:22:16.600 she's very happy. However, me personally, based on my worldview, I imagine her 68, 70 years old

01:22:24.420 in a cold and sterile hospital bed suffering from some ailment. And the doctor comes in with a chart

01:22:30.020 and says, you know, Ms. Handler, it is terminal. Is there anyone we should call? And she just sits

01:22:33.640 there and says, no. And they say, okay, well, we're press the button if you need us. And they

01:22:38.580 walk out and then she just sits there. That that is it. That is that is that is hell. In my view,

01:22:43.200 that is a nightmare scenario to me. I'm not saying it's absolutely will happen to her. She maybe has

01:22:47.140 friends. However, what I've learned from older people, the scariest thing I've heard from older

01:22:52.100 people. I remember, let me tell you a story. I was in Chicago. I was 18. I was skateboarding.

01:22:57.000 I went and got some pizza. I had some leftovers. I see a homeless old black man hanging out

01:23:01.820 smoking a cigarette. And I'm like, hey, my man, you want some pizza? And he's like,

01:23:05.040 yeah, hell yeah, brother. And I walk over and I was like, can I ask you a question? I was like,

01:23:08.720 are you homeless? And he's like, I said, I am. And I said, how did that happen? The story told me

01:23:13.600 was that he worked at the post office for most of his life. And he got older. His friends and family

01:23:20.100 had died. He was he was he was unmarried. He had an apartment. You know, once he gets into his like

01:23:25.000 mid to late 60s, doesn't really have any friends anymore. And then they laid him off. His money started

01:23:30.060 unemployment at first, starts to run out of money, eventually can't afford to pay his bills

01:23:34.240 anymore, gets evicted. He has no one to call, no one to turn to. So now he lives on the streets.

01:23:38.840 And I'm like, damn, that's that's terrifying. No. And so my fear is for someone like Chelsea

01:23:43.720 Handler, I don't care what she does. She can live however she wants to live. But I do believe that

01:23:47.340 there's a high likelihood that people like her will find themselves in what the average person would

01:23:51.580 describe as a nightmare scenario of no one cares about you. No one knows where you are and you die

01:23:56.380 alone. Yeah. And there's no way that she hasn't thought about that, too. I mean,

01:23:59.960 she definitely hasn't. I know a lot of people who have meaningful lives and they accent them

01:24:04.280 with things that, you know, maybe the right would be like, oh, this is degenerate. There's no way

01:24:07.560 you're happy. But it's like, you know, they have their accomplishments. They have their empire,

01:24:10.560 whatever it may be. But someone in that position, I don't even know Chelsea Handler is. But I imagine

01:24:15.360 this is a famous person who has been successful, maybe has passed their prime or something. And so

01:24:19.480 they're going to make a video like, oh, look at all I do is masturbate and smoke weed all day.

01:24:22.940 I don't believe that that is possible to even achieve happiness longer than a week. If you wake up

01:24:27.140 and all you do is smoke weed and masturbate, you're literally biologically eroding your capacity to

01:24:31.620 feel that euphoria that you are now drawn to through your dopamine receptors, because that

01:24:35.600 diminishes over time, which is literally your brain trying to like save you from that binging

01:24:39.300 mechanism. And I think a lot of people who are parents, they were responding to Chelsea Handler

01:24:43.080 saying because her whole thing was like, I'm still happy, even though I'm unmarried and single,

01:24:46.940 I can go to Paris and do all these things. And it's like, Chelsea, you are how old is she?

01:24:50.460 She is 50 years old. Like you easily could have kids who are now adults and still be doing all of

01:24:56.300 the things that you're doing. We're so obsessed with immediate gratification. I feel like especially

01:25:00.520 millennials, we have this idea where if you're a parent, it's like you have a newborn strapped to

01:25:04.620 you always for the rest of your life, which is just not what parenthood is. Like kids grow up,

01:25:08.980 they go through different phases. You're not going to be up sleepless nights forever.

01:25:12.840 And two, they would have to explain then why, and this isn't everything, but it's not nothing.

01:25:16.600 The profile of the person who is the statistically most likely to be depressed in this country is

01:25:21.560 the middle-aged, single, childless, working woman. So if it were really a lifestyle that not only

01:25:26.200 works, but is ideal and liberating, then why is that the result then?

01:25:29.700 I don't know. So one, I don't know if that's true, but also if we want to go by stats,

01:25:33.020 isn't the most likely to kill themselves like the middle-aged, um, white man experiencing

01:25:38.200 depression, whose family is already left out, like are different between men and women though.

01:25:41.520 I think it's important to figure out like, what is it in life that brings you happiness?

01:25:45.280 What is it in life that fulfills you? And then kind of like move in that direction.

01:25:49.120 Like in some ways, I feel like Chelsea Handler is a good example of, you know, maybe we look

01:25:53.660 at her like, oh, she's not going to find much fulfillment. She's going to like this, blah,

01:25:55.960 blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, do you think she would have been a good parent?

01:26:00.000 Maybe it's better that people like that don't have kids, right? If they really don't want

01:26:02.640 to, if they really feel like they would have been burdened. Yeah, good.

01:26:04.100 I think we can have both of that. We could say like having this hedonistic, excessive,

01:26:09.860 very materialistic lifestyle, it's not going to lead to fulfillment, but also we should examine

01:26:13.460 why someone like that exists in the first place. So it's a societal problem as much as it is a

01:26:17.900 personal problem, I think. To Destiny's point, I think that men and women experience depression

01:26:22.280 a lot differently. I think that women experience depression in a much more environmental sense.

01:26:26.860 Like if they are in an environment that they're not happy with, they're not enjoying,

01:26:29.840 they will feel depressed. When men experience depression, I think it's much more that they

01:26:33.700 see no way out of that environment, which is why I think too, like, you know, it's common that we

01:26:37.540 say women are more likely to attempt suicide. Men are more likely to actually commit suicide

01:26:41.360 because women will be, you know, maybe in a low emotional state and they'll just kind of lash

01:26:45.280 out and like try to hurt themselves. But men will be like, okay, I have done the math. This is not

01:26:49.820 going to work out. And they'll just like blow their head off with a shotgun. And I think that's

01:26:52.640 because like this whole society that we've cultivated doesn't allow for avenues for people to pursue

01:26:57.160 meaning the way that they would have even in their grandparents' generation. I mean, you know,

01:27:00.860 boomers don't like this, but it is true that like on a single income, you could get a nice house

01:27:04.460 in a safe neighborhood. You could get a moral spouse, didn't have to worry about them being like,

01:27:08.440 you know, some red pill guy didn't have to worry about them being like an OnlyFans thought. They

01:27:12.200 were just more or less normal people. And you could have that, you know, summer home, a boat,

01:27:16.520 cars, without going into the debt that you have to now, without having to deal with this sort of

01:27:20.480 like societal disintegration that our generations are having to deal with. That does weigh on people.

01:27:24.900 And I don't think that there's even a way out of that, but we seem to be distracting from that

01:27:28.460 reality that we all know with things like, you know, the hedonism and the endless pursuit of

01:27:32.600 pleasure, this sort of like narcissism that we see with like, I'm not going to have kids. Ew,

01:27:36.940 I'm just going to go like travel and smoke weed and do whatever. And it's like, ultimately,

01:27:40.520 there's going to reach a point where these people realize that that is not going to,

01:27:43.720 you know, make them happy. And especially women, when they're past the point where they can have

01:27:46.720 kids, they are going to snap. And I am genuinely afraid of what that's going to do to society.

01:27:51.640 Okay. Here's where I'm going to do my atheist rant though. And I'm going to shut up. Both you

01:27:54.460 guys are religious, right? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay. This is my, uh, okay.

01:27:59.240 I feel like we haven't been bringing up religion that much.

01:28:01.460 That's why I said I'm about to. Okay. I thought we were, we were like being too Christian for people. I thought like,

01:28:06.420 yeah, we were, look at us modern. Okay. Don't worry. We'll bring the atheism in here. This is

01:28:09.640 why Christianity sucks. And it's why all the Christian talking points suck. The few, the world

01:28:14.640 today as it exists is different than it ever has been. We have to find a way to offer people some

01:28:20.100 avenue for fulfillment that doesn't require us resetting the clock 30, 40, 50, a hundred years

01:28:25.360 on civilization. This is why I'll always fight with Christians or red pills or whatever. People that

01:28:29.680 are like, you know, we need to get rid of the pill or birth control. That's never happening.

01:28:32.900 Women need to go back to the home and need to stop working so much. That's never happening.

01:28:36.440 These are two of probably the most massive things that have changed society. And these are two of

01:28:40.180 the things that I hear people complain about the most that women are being too masculinized,

01:28:43.080 that women can sleep around now and they'd have to get married, blah, blah, blah. These are two

01:28:45.960 things that are never changing. Whatever solution we're offering men or people in general in the

01:28:49.760 world going forward, I don't think it can be like a return to tradition where we go back to the way

01:28:54.480 things were a hundred years ago. Cause that's never going to happen.

01:28:55.900 How does that relate to Christianity and atheism though?

01:28:57.880 Because when I hear people, because I think that the world today has become a bit more secular in

01:29:01.840 terms of how we look for happiness and fulfillment. And I think that Christians like to fall back a

01:29:06.580 lot on like, well, the Bible has all the answers you need. All of your metaphysical, all of your

01:29:10.540 ethical, all of your epistemic truths can be found in the Bible. We just have to go back to church.

01:29:14.780 And I feel like overall, like the traditional lifestyle, I think for a long time, people assumed

01:29:18.620 that that traditional lifestyle, we're just biologically inclined towards it. Women want to have kids,

01:29:22.120 men want to be fathers. And it's like, well, put in a society with birth control and jobs,

01:29:26.040 people actually are making way different choices than we ever thought they would before. So it

01:29:29.480 seems like that biological drive is not as strong as it was. The religion aspect is probably not

01:29:34.140 coming back. So I think we have to have better answers for going forward in the future, other

01:29:38.120 than just like we need to be trad con or we need to, you know, bring God back into the world or

01:29:42.080 whatever. It has to be different. Even to what you said, like, oh, like it's hard to afford things

01:29:46.160 today. You can have like a boathouse or a boat and a house on the waterfront and blah, blah, blah

01:29:50.860 with a single income. Yeah, but the world was a lot different back then too. You didn't have the huge cities we

01:29:53.800 have today. You didn't have all the opportunities that exist in those cities.

01:29:55.720 You didn't have cell phones or the internet. You didn't have video games. Like they had access

01:29:58.980 to like property, but like what they could do with those properties and the opportunity and

01:30:02.100 everything available to them was also way, way, way, way, way less. I think the biological drives

01:30:06.080 remain. They just may be channeled in different ways. Like men aren't exactly like going to war

01:30:09.760 the way we used to, but we spend a lot of time watching other men fight or compete in, you know,

01:30:14.040 grand athletic displays or things like that. Or even women, for example, yeah, they're not having

01:30:17.720 children maybe as much as they used to, but even you see in the trends on social media,

01:30:21.740 like, you know, the feminine urge to do this. I mean, there's a reason those things go viral.

01:30:24.600 It does resonate to some degree with women, even if it's not possible. And I also think

01:30:28.920 it's true that women are far more susceptible to like social pressures. And if every institution

01:30:33.360 and person in the media is telling them like, this is lame, you need to go be like, you know,

01:30:37.340 what's your face? They're going to be like, oh, okay. Like they think it's a low status opinion

01:30:40.760 to want to pursue motherhood. And they're actually shamed for that more so than they would have been

01:30:44.460 when they were being taught to do that.

01:30:45.760 Yeah. I suppose if, if the argument is that women are more agreeable and you're seeing

01:30:50.460 algorithms promoting whether they know it's algorithm or not, but the content that gets

01:30:54.020 promoted consistently says live this way. And this particular lifestyle results in a higher

01:30:58.500 rate of depression. I think that's a bad thing. I also think it's a massive, uh, massive issue that

01:31:04.100 has so many variables as it would be impossible to track what is actually causing all of this stuff,

01:31:08.220 you know, like what's, what's, what's causing the increase in depression. Conservatives are going to

01:31:12.400 take a conservative view and say, if women were doing, you know, more of this liberals are going

01:31:16.460 to, are going to take the inverted view and say depression's high because women are being

01:31:19.260 suppressed. You get my point? Like finding out what the actual data point is would be very difficult.

01:31:23.200 And on the biblical point too, I mean, we're not really supposed to be of this earth. I mean,

01:31:26.860 you know, our time here is very limited and we're going to spend most of our time either in

01:31:30.540 heaven or hell by far. And so, you know, the Bible doesn't necessarily have to conform to the

01:31:34.620 standards of the world, but vice versa. And so if the Bible is telling you, you need to be

01:31:38.160 chaste and disciplined and temperate and prudent, things like that. I mean,

01:31:41.420 those virtues are literally timeless. I mean, you can apply those virtues even if maybe it's

01:31:45.300 more difficult now to, you know, be held to those standards than when the society was less

01:31:49.760 obviously satanic. It still is true that if you look at the Bible as like a, almost like a,

01:31:54.660 we'll use like a game guide for how to exist in the world.

01:31:57.960 The meme is like basic instructions before leaving earth.

01:32:00.440 Yeah. Nobody was ever like, if you actually like laid out everything in the Bible that it says,

01:32:05.020 don't do this. And you followed that for say a year or something, you're not going to be able to

01:32:08.800 tell me that your life would be worse. It would obviously be so much better because

01:32:11.400 it's true and it's real. And I don't know anybody who's like miserable right now,

01:32:14.820 who is following that.

01:32:15.800 Like mosaic laws. I really doubt people are going to be able to track their mixed fabrics,

01:32:20.440 tattoos.

01:32:20.960 Well, that was in context of like these pagan rituals they were doing at the time they're

01:32:23.900 making. I forgot exactly which fabrics, but they were mixing the fabrics to make some like

01:32:27.300 weird thing.

01:32:28.340 But I mean, you're referring to basically like receiving an analysis from someone on what the

01:32:33.380 Bible actually would prescribe.

01:32:35.000 Yeah. I don't know if it could be quantified per se, but I think it is still true. And I think

01:32:38.380 that's old law stuff anyway, which is fulfilled through the, um, so, so it's not, so right.

01:32:42.260 So when you say follow the Bible, you're not talking about old law stuff. So no, that's

01:32:45.940 Judaism. That's like a different thing.

01:32:47.840 Right.

01:32:48.280 Well, the old Testament is still very much inactive. Like when Jesus did his sermon on the Mount,

01:32:52.620 he did not come to abolish the old laws, but he came to fulfill them or whatever. Right.

01:32:56.680 You're, you're atheist. What do you, what do you, uh, John mentioned, we spend more time

01:33:00.360 in heaven or hell. What do you think happens? What's your, what's your view? Or do you think anything?

01:33:03.760 I just like going to sleep and never waking up. Yeah. I don't know the answers for what

01:33:07.780 happens after death. I mean, you're kind of, you brought up the question of Christianity

01:33:11.180 and religion. And I, I will still push back and say a lot of the points you've made don't

01:33:15.480 necessarily relate to religion, but I think they're part of the fact that the Christian

01:33:19.240 tradition, it is very focused on your inner life and what some people might broadly call

01:33:24.080 spirituality. Now that term is very frou-frou and can mean whatever, but it's the idea that

01:33:28.380 we are more than just our material senses and that life has greater meaning than simply

01:33:32.480 just input, output, pleasure. And I think that's not necessarily something that's just

01:33:37.060 about Christianity. We are talking about a world that is a lot more material. And I

01:33:40.480 think when you say it's more secular now, you're actually talking about how we are so

01:33:43.280 much more focused on the material, whether that's a consumerism, like our obsession with

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01:34:49.560 When you really care about someone you shouted from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

01:34:55.240 Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about

01:35:00.620 you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs. Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

01:35:09.280 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care. Did I mention that we

01:35:16.120 care? Track a pretty direct line for our happiness. As we have focused more on the material, we have

01:35:24.100 become more depressed as a society and particularly women because when we go to it's interesting when

01:35:28.780 you go to a lot of these countries that we would call developing like they don't have all the

01:35:33.200 luxuries that we do. By and large, they have a lot fewer like I guess social problems. They might

01:35:38.320 consider themselves a lot happier happier than we are now. That's kind of true. But if you look at like

01:35:43.820 the, you guys like like teleology, right? Because you guys are like Christians. If you look at like

01:35:49.080 the grand design and purpose of humanity, right? It does seem like, and I know a lot of people like

01:35:53.580 to do this weird thing where we jerk off like, well, my God, that actually the really underdeveloped

01:35:58.500 societies that don't have cell phones, they're all so much happier. And it's like to some extent that's

01:36:02.180 true. But like Tim Pool's show doesn't exist in these societies, right? The ability for us people,

01:36:06.180 the Marvel Universe doesn't exist. I said those poor people. Yeah, true. Yeah, actually. But like,

01:36:12.000 I'm just saying that like, there's a lot of really cool shit that we've created in kind of the more

01:36:15.400 developed world. It does seem like people tend towards wanting more autonomy, the ability to

01:36:20.020 choose otherwise, the ability not to be railroaded into hyper specific lifestyles. Now, humans acclimate

01:36:24.960 really well, believe it or not, even people with locked in syndrome where you can't move anything but

01:36:28.440 your fucking eyes, even those people tend to report decent standards of living. So I'm

01:36:32.160 sure you can find really poor communities where the people are, you know, like, oh, you know,

01:36:35.500 we're happy we do our thing. But with the ability to pursue and accomplish grander things, I think

01:36:40.840 we kind of owe it to ourselves as humans as being part of like the human race to continue to build

01:36:45.040 towards those things. We just have to like, I'm not against that. I'm not saying that all the modern

01:36:48.560 luxuries that we have are necessarily bad. I like clean water. I'm good keeping that. But I'm just

01:36:53.540 the reason why I bring that up is because, you know, a lot of the things that we've developed now that

01:37:00.040 people are so obsessed with, I just want to put into a perspective that that's not going to make

01:37:03.320 you happier, right? The person who has like a happy family life, a happy home life who lives in a mud

01:37:08.060 hut, they're ultimately going to report more fulfillment and more happiness than you who is

01:37:12.160 spending all of your time indulging in like social media in this video game and whatever it is. Not

01:37:16.920 that those things are inherently bad, though, but they are not a source of fulfillment.

01:37:19.620 Yeah, I agree. I think social media probably makes people unhappier, right? Almost absolutely,

01:37:25.140 especially teenage girls. Yeah, yeah. Especially, yeah, Instagram. Like, yes, people will always

01:37:29.700 choose things that are more interesting. They'll choose more autonomy. If you ask, you know,

01:37:32.640 probably, I don't know, 100 people who live in these lesser developed societies, if they want to

01:37:36.540 just get a free ticket to the US, most of them will probably say yes. I don't think people can choose

01:37:40.800 reliably what is good for them just based on their desires. Because think about with social media.

01:37:43.900 We're choosing what's good for them, right? I don't agree with that. Well, just as a general

01:37:48.360 idea, I think we all know that social media has like harmed us. I mean, you hear this all the

01:37:52.560 time online with kids like, I wish we could just do away with it, go back to 2006. Most people would

01:37:56.680 probably agree with that. But when it comes to actually doing it, nobody wants to do it. Nobody

01:38:00.700 wants to come together and like, okay, let's all go back. Like you said, it's impossible. We're never

01:38:04.000 going to go back. I agree. Yeah, in terms of people in lesser developed nations being offered a ticket

01:38:09.780 here. A lot of them would say yes. I think most of them would say no. And but it's not it's not

01:38:15.840 because of I think the issue is for most people, their happiness and fulfillment is their family

01:38:21.260 and their community. And what if you offer their whole family ticket here? I don't I think still

01:38:25.660 many of them would say no. So we've talked about blue zones, for instance, you guys familiar with the

01:38:30.520 blue zones where people live to be over 100 years old. Yeah, they interviewed this Japanese guy. And he's

01:38:35.060 like chopping lumber. And he's like 99 or something. And they're like, why are you chopping wood?

01:38:39.780 Like have someone else do it. And he's like, what do you mean? If I don't do it, who's going to do

01:38:42.480 it? I have to do it. And they contribute. One of the reasons people live long lives is because of

01:38:46.040 purpose. They because they have to they can't stop. People need something of them. For that reason,

01:38:50.700 I think there are certainly a lot of people who are like, man, I dream of coming to the United

01:38:53.820 States. And they do come every single day, some more successfully than others. But I think most people

01:38:58.380 would probably just say, like, if I leave, who's going to feed the pigs, you know, and they find

01:39:03.280 fulfillment in their family and their community and their and their personal mission, which is maybe it's today

01:39:07.800 we're making pork, maybe making shoes. And to bring things back to, I guess, men, and because

01:39:14.040 we opened up with what's wrong with men, I think men, especially they thrive and need that purpose,

01:39:19.000 the feeling that they're contributing to something greater. It's like you mentioned, John, that the

01:39:22.340 whole I'm not attributing it to PTSD, because I, I would say that's a different thing, too. But you

01:39:26.500 know, a lot of people service members who have seen come back to civilian life, they will say,

01:39:30.660 oh, this is really hard to adjust to, because you're in this really tight brotherhood,

01:39:33.360 you have very clearly defined mission that you're working to, men do thrive, or a lot of men thrive

01:39:38.020 in that environment. Modern society doesn't really look like that. Even the way that our careers are

01:39:42.820 looking like, it's no longer the case where you just go to this one company, and it's a very clearly

01:39:46.160 defined hierarchy. It's very measurable, your goals, you work hard, you succeed. Now everything is

01:39:50.900 everywhere, you're getting laid off. A lot of people are, they have their own jobs or side hustles.

01:39:55.000 So it's hard for I think a lot of young men to navigate that they want to be out there slaying

01:39:59.720 dragons. The dragons are still there, but they're a lot more amorphous. And they don't have

01:40:03.280 guidance as to what that looks like in this context.

01:40:05.640 Yeah, everything is so feminized, too. It's just like not a conducive environment for like

01:40:09.820 masculine, you know, flourishing. I mean, we don't have like traditionally male spaces anymore.

01:40:14.340 Even like the last tool we had to kind of check and regulate male behavior, like calling each other

01:40:18.660 gay. Now people don't even do that as much.

01:40:21.040 That was it, huh?

01:40:21.960 Wait, how do we not have traditionally male spaces? What do we mean by that?

01:40:24.840 Well, because they've been integrated.

01:40:26.760 Well, like what male spaces are we missing?

01:40:28.540 I think that it was far more productive to have like all male classrooms, things like the Boy Scouts,

01:40:35.300 you know, these sort of like social organizations.

01:40:38.060 Well, I went to an all boys high school. Careful.

01:40:40.180 Oh, is that one? Oh, could you please?

01:40:42.880 Speaking of gay, what is this again? Can you explain this drink to us?

01:40:45.620 Just an iced coffee.

01:40:47.060 Just a regular iced coffee.

01:40:49.020 I'm so comfortable in my masculinity. I can indulge in things like this and not be threatened by them.

01:40:53.540 But I think that is true. Like, you know, the gay thing actually is real because it's not like

01:40:58.320 you're being a homosexual, but it's like, you know, you're in a male friend group.

01:41:01.240 A guy starts doing something weird. You're like, stop being gay. And then he's like,

01:41:03.400 you're being gay. And there's like an impromptu sort of court-martialing system.

01:41:06.260 The other guys chime in, decide who was being gay. And then you move on from there.

01:41:09.680 But now guys aren't as comfortable like checking their behavior.

01:41:13.280 But why does that matter?

01:41:14.260 Well, because I think that's how we grow up and we socialize.

01:41:16.760 For both genders, I think it's really important that we have like the framework to kind of keep each other in check.

01:41:21.540 I think it's really important that men, for their own socialization, they're able to,

01:41:25.440 for what, for a lot of women looking at it, would call bully each other somewhat.

01:41:29.580 And for women, we do that all the time.

01:41:31.640 Women are way harsher enforcers of like societal rules amongst each other than men are.

01:41:36.680 And it's very vicious and toxic. I think Instagram has kind of exploded that too much.

01:41:41.100 I feel like at schools, I feel like kids don't bully each other or fuck done.

01:41:43.600 I don't think that's gone.

01:41:44.340 It's become far less direct though. It's much more catty.

01:41:46.740 So like it used to be, you know, like the maybe, you know, John Hughes-esque, like picking on the nerdy kid,

01:41:51.680 pushing him into a locker or whatever.

01:41:53.180 Now the bullying, because they have no tolerance for anything physical, so it's much more catty and feminine.

01:41:57.820 So what I saw, and this was actually like disgusting, like I love bullying my male friends and vice versa.

01:42:02.400 What I saw when I was in high school, which was six years ago,

01:42:05.200 was you would take a kid who maybe would have been bullied, you know, 30 years ago,

01:42:08.460 and you would have guys and girls hype them up and pretend to be their friend.

01:42:12.740 There was this one kid I knew.

01:42:14.220 He used to bring a beach ball to school every day.

01:42:15.780 Great guy. It was just like his thing.

01:42:17.320 He liked the way the beach ball, every day just carried this beach ball around.

01:42:19.800 Kind of a weird kid. Great guy.

01:42:21.760 But the kid, hey, what's up, man?

01:42:23.220 Oh, take pictures and everything.

01:42:24.440 And he thought they were his friends.

01:42:25.680 And then, you know, it comes time for grad parties, comes time to, hey, you want to go?

01:42:28.180 And they all like flaked on him.

01:42:29.160 And he was so confused and traumatized by that because the joke was,

01:42:33.240 you think we would actually be friends with you?

01:42:34.660 The joke's not, you're a nerd. Stop being nerd.

01:42:36.360 It's, you think anyone would actually ever want to be friends with you?

01:42:38.860 You idiot.

01:42:39.640 I agree. But I think there's a balance.

01:42:41.640 Is that a good thing?

01:42:42.440 No, I'm saying that's worse. It's far worse.

01:42:44.200 I don't think bullying in the traditional view of it,

01:42:48.060 the kid picking on the other kid, pushing him around,

01:42:49.580 I don't think any of that's good.

01:42:50.960 But I also don't like the inversion of that,

01:42:53.140 which is this reverse bullying where, like you described, I've seen this.

01:42:56.340 Yeah.

01:42:56.560 Where they take the kid who's unpopular and weird,

01:42:58.620 and they all act like they're, oh, you know, they do,

01:43:01.160 like you're the prom king now.

01:43:03.080 And it's actually scummier to take someone who has some kind of like

01:43:08.780 social awkwardness and they need to be helped in that.

01:43:14.540 You can say like, hey man, deodorant, it's your friend.

01:43:17.400 I got this for you.

01:43:18.400 Instead, they're like, what a good person.

01:43:20.420 You're so great.

01:43:21.220 Don't mention the stench.

01:43:22.380 And then nobody wants to hang out.

01:43:23.420 Right.

01:43:23.600 Because those kind of negative social enforcements,

01:43:26.180 they're just as valuable as the positive ones.

01:43:27.960 Like we want to live in a world where we're happy and getting along with each other.

01:43:31.920 Some behaviors are less fun to be around than others,

01:43:34.620 but we're no longer able to check those.

01:43:36.980 And so they kind of exploded.

01:43:37.960 Then a lot of people wonder, why don't I have more friends?

01:43:39.880 Why aren't I more popular?

01:43:41.200 It's like, well, it's because of this, this, and this reason.

01:43:43.220 But we weren't able to tell you that because now that's politically incorrect.

01:43:46.440 I know a dude who committed suicide and nobody really picked on this guy,

01:43:52.720 but he needed a hard wake-up call.

01:43:55.360 He needed, man, this guy probably would have made it if at a younger age,

01:44:00.780 people just said, dude, you need to stop doing these things.

01:44:04.980 I'm trying to keep it vague.

01:44:05.840 I don't want to drag this guy's family or anything because he did take his own life.

01:44:08.520 And it's sad.

01:44:09.400 He was a friend of mine.

01:44:11.000 Nobody was willing to tell him the hard truth.

01:44:12.940 Nobody was willing to tell him to put down the garbage.

01:44:15.580 Nobody was telling him to clean himself.

01:44:17.100 Nobody was, he wasn't getting into that social interaction.

01:44:20.800 He grew up reveling in these really awful behaviors.

01:44:23.000 And then when he was an adult, no one, no one who had to be around him would be around him.

01:44:29.800 And then he, he, he took his own life.

01:44:31.660 This is true.

01:44:32.160 But every single person that talks about this, like health at every size and all this shit misses this fact.

01:44:37.120 Okay.

01:44:37.620 For it to be a hard truth or for it to be tough love, tough love only works when there's actual love.

01:44:43.680 People will walk around, especially conservatives, and they'll do this shit where it's like, you're a fat fucking loser piece of shit.

01:44:50.700 Somebody has to tell you.

01:44:51.700 And it's like, do you think that's like the impetus they needed to get to the gym?

01:44:54.900 Like everything that you do, when you do tough love, there has to be like an underlying current of like, listen, you know, you can do better than this.

01:45:02.280 I know you can do better than this.

01:45:03.280 Like you have to fix this thing.

01:45:04.420 It'll be better for you.

01:45:05.160 Everybody.

01:45:05.400 Like there has to be that element of compassion.

01:45:07.380 Otherwise you're just shitting on somebody.

01:45:08.660 And I find that there's a lot of movements about like tough love that's not really like, no offense.

01:45:14.120 Like, yeah, men don't give a fuck about women's health, but suddenly they really do when it comes to health at every size.

01:45:18.280 Now every guy is like, well, hold on, the optimal body fat, blah, blah, blah.

01:45:20.720 You never give a fuck about women's health before.

01:45:22.340 You're still going to bully people.

01:45:23.560 I think that's important.

01:45:24.660 Several years ago, Miley Annopoulos posted, he made fun of a guy who was overweight at the gym.

01:45:30.180 Oh, geez.

01:45:30.720 Yeah.

01:45:31.020 But he did get a lot.

01:45:32.520 I was happy to see how many people were dunking on him for that.

01:45:35.160 Right.

01:45:35.260 Because it's like the dude is at the gym.

01:45:36.600 He's doing everything he could possibly do to improve himself.

01:45:39.460 Leave him alone.

01:45:40.180 That's when you clap.

01:45:40.960 That's when you cheer the guy on.

01:45:41.920 That's when you're like, man, you are hitting it.

01:45:44.180 Come back.

01:45:44.620 We want to be friends.

01:45:45.640 I feel bad when I see these stories of people who are overweight, unhealthy, and they're embarrassed or nervous to go to the gym.

01:45:51.640 No, no.

01:45:51.940 I assure you, you go to the gym, the overwhelming majority of people are going to give you high fives and they're going to be cheering you on as you do that work.

01:45:58.580 And that's real body positivity.

01:46:00.720 Yeah.

01:46:00.980 No, it's true.

01:46:01.480 You have to have, like Destiny said, like the love from sort of above component.

01:46:04.660 Otherwise, it's just like fake and you're just like channeling more rage online.

01:46:08.420 And like you said, too, at the gym, I mean, especially to like the guys who are like the total, you know, chads, they're like the most willing to help out because it really is a compliment in a way.

01:46:16.100 Like if you go up to a guy at a gym and you're like, hey, can you show me how to do this?

01:46:18.960 You're like implying that you obviously look like you know what you're doing.

01:46:21.820 And so no one's going to be annoyed by that.

01:46:23.320 That is manly affirmation.

01:46:26.540 You're a guy.

01:46:27.560 Someone comes to you and says, I think you are better at this thing than me.

01:46:30.880 And I require your expertise, your information, your capabilities makes you feel good.

01:46:35.380 I remember this is around the 2020 election.

01:46:37.460 I was at my gym back in Michigan and there was this kid who was maybe like 16, 17 years old, skinniest person I've ever seen in my life.

01:46:44.920 And he was just walking around the gym floor with the most confidence, like his chest was out.

01:46:49.820 He was like saying hi.

01:46:50.500 I'd never seen him there before.

01:46:51.680 And he came over to me.

01:46:52.360 I did like some bench, I think, with like a supinated grip.

01:46:54.640 It's like you hold the bar this way.

01:46:55.740 I think it has like a better tricep activation or something.

01:46:58.340 And he came over to me and like interrupted my workout, but not in like a rude way, more in just like a you need to be talking to me.

01:47:03.300 And I was like, obviously, this is going to be interesting.

01:47:05.700 He was like, well, what was that grip you were doing?

01:47:07.180 I explained it to him and he was like, oh, thanks, man.

01:47:09.140 He like hit me and I was like, I aspire to have this level of confidence.

01:47:13.080 I mean, he owned the gym at that point.

01:47:14.920 I don't know what happened.

01:47:15.640 He was taking pre-workout or something, but it was just so funny.

01:47:18.260 Why do you think it is people want to be mean on the Internet so much?

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01:48:44.560 Did I mention that we care?

01:48:48.540 Oh, they're miserable.

01:48:49.840 Well, think about it this way.

01:48:50.520 I have never, I think about this maybe once a week.

01:48:53.360 Paul Joseph Watson, right?

01:48:55.360 I would call myself a big Paul Joseph Watson fan.

01:48:58.380 I haven't watched one of that guy's, well, hold on.

01:49:00.980 I haven't watched one of that guy's videos in like six years.

01:49:03.720 But still, I'd be like, yeah, I'm a huge fan.

01:49:05.040 I've never left a comment on one of his videos.

01:49:07.000 I've maybe only liked them to bookmark them for future reference.

01:49:10.580 I've never like, so think about the kind of psychology you have to have to leave a mean comment.

01:49:16.300 You have to like really be angry enough to just, I'm going to, let alone,

01:49:19.660 you know, if you say something terrible in a video that's obviously wrong, okay, yeah,

01:49:22.780 you're going to get dunked on.

01:49:23.620 But just to make a video, maybe it's neutral, controversial or whatever, to leave like a

01:49:28.220 mean comment or to leave a mean tweet, reply, something like that, you have to be in a certain

01:49:32.520 state already to even like be there.

01:49:34.400 I don't know anyone who does that unless they're trolling.

01:49:36.560 Well, I think part of it is being online and the anonymity that is afforded to that.

01:49:41.100 Now, I'm not saying we should get rid of online anonymity, but it's just an objective fact

01:49:45.080 that 99% of the people who say stuff about you online, they would never dream of saying

01:49:49.420 that to your face.

01:49:50.520 Yeah.

01:49:50.860 God, that's why I love fucking Facebook so much.

01:49:53.560 Yeah.

01:49:53.860 It's funny there.

01:49:54.840 Listen, you say that no one would want to get rid of anonymity.

01:49:57.620 I firmly believe that once you hit a certain level as a content creator, you want all anonymity

01:50:01.020 gone.

01:50:01.260 I want the social security numbers, home addresses of all these motherfuckers because nothing

01:50:05.200 feels better than some fuck up making fun of you on Twitter or some shit.

01:50:08.580 And he's got an account linked.

01:50:09.460 You're like, I know everything about you.

01:50:11.160 And then you go through his shit and you just light this piece of shit to light up.

01:50:14.220 But I don't have a camera.

01:50:15.240 Sorry.

01:50:16.640 But yeah, the anonymity does.

01:50:18.120 The analogy I always bring up is if you play like FPS, I don't know if it's still like

01:50:21.040 this.

01:50:21.180 I haven't played CSGO in a long time.

01:50:22.440 But if you hop into a game and three people on mic and one person is typing, the one person

01:50:27.400 that's typing is always the toxic fucking piece of shit because it's a lot harder to be mean

01:50:31.080 in voice.

01:50:31.960 Like, I hate you, blah, blah, blah.

01:50:33.180 Versus the guy that's typing on the keyboard.

01:50:34.580 It's like, oh, you're the worst player.

01:50:35.620 And it's like, yeah, okay, dude.

01:50:37.040 I wonder if it is.

01:50:39.040 It's just the distance.

01:50:40.040 It's just you before the Internet, you know, people would make prank phone calls.

01:50:46.600 But if you were going to say something to somebody, you had to expect the real world

01:50:49.320 consequences of the people around you watching and what the person how they would react and

01:50:53.220 what that would mean.

01:50:54.320 Now online, it's like, I don't know you and I don't care.

01:50:57.060 That's the scariest thing to me, especially as a content creator.

01:51:00.340 There's this weird dynamic that we will all relate to where people almost like, like they'll

01:51:05.380 say like unfollowed, unsubscribed.

01:51:08.040 Just like, like, do you think you have power?

01:51:10.000 Like they're mad at you and they're like, well, I'm going to get back.

01:51:12.540 It's like you, you know, and it sounds terrible saying it, but it's like you are you are a

01:51:15.540 number on a screen.

01:51:16.420 Like, I understand that there is a sort of parasocial relationship that like inevitably

01:51:19.720 develops.

01:51:20.240 But people get like really, you know, personal about like who they follow, who they give

01:51:24.420 their time to and they try to like wave their finger at you.

01:51:26.600 It's literally the Dark Knight Rises scene where the guy is like, I paid you a $5 sub

01:51:31.940 and this gives you power over me.

01:51:34.420 That's Destiny.

01:51:35.040 Yeah.

01:51:35.880 Destiny towering over his $5 sub.

01:51:38.400 You're getting banned.

01:51:39.560 I'll ban you extra hard if you're a sub.

01:51:40.940 You think you're talking, you should know better.

01:51:42.160 Okay.

01:51:42.520 My favorite response is someone commented is like on Twitter and they were like, guy, I didn't

01:51:48.060 know you were following me in the first place.

01:51:49.760 Like you're telling me you're unfollowing me and I'm like, oh, but you know, that not

01:51:54.960 that that's not so much what I, you know, what I'm talking to about, you know, people

01:51:58.340 being mean online.

01:51:59.320 It's like someone expressing their distaste for your opinions and telling you that like,

01:52:03.200 I'm not interested in following anymore is a bit silly.

01:52:05.760 Yeah.

01:52:05.880 But there's like, there are people who they're, they just, all they have is going online and

01:52:12.760 lying about other people and, and make being mean just generally.

01:52:17.700 If they were to try that in real life, they would get punched in the face, but we're not

01:52:22.340 in real life.

01:52:23.020 A lot of the times when we're online, it's the same thing with women.

01:52:25.160 I mean, you know, most of the bullying that I think happens to women largely comes from

01:52:29.280 other women.

01:52:29.600 I think it might depend what content spheres you're operating on, but like, you know, a

01:52:33.040 lot of the makeup people who get bullied for whatever reason, it's other women that

01:52:37.080 are bullying them.

01:52:37.900 But if, if these women were, I guess, in friend groups and there would still be bullying because

01:52:42.100 they're women, but it would be a lot less toned down.

01:52:44.220 We would be checking each other socially because that's not okay to do like to someone, you

01:52:48.920 know, in real life, but because it's all online, we're all anonymous.

01:52:52.220 There's no real consequences.

01:52:54.040 It's just, it's a very toxic situation for a lot of people where they do indulge in behaviors

01:52:58.420 that wouldn't be okay.

01:53:00.720 You also, I think there's also the fact that you mentioned that word dehumanizing.

01:53:04.940 Dehumanizing, it's a really loaded word, but like there is an aspect of dehumanization

01:53:08.300 that you don't like see the effect of what you're doing on somebody.

01:53:11.120 If you take most people and you put them in real life and you put them in front of somebody

01:53:15.340 that's like earnestly trying in real life to make fun of somebody like that, that takes

01:53:19.000 a lot.

01:53:19.860 You have to be almost like psychopathic to go after somebody like that, but online, it's

01:53:23.640 super easy.

01:53:24.200 And I don't know if you guys have the experience, bro, I'll go to events where I'll meet fans

01:53:26.840 sometimes.

01:53:27.340 And the guy's like, oh shit.

01:53:28.340 Like I was a guy that like, do you remember when I tweeted at you that like that last

01:53:31.480 video you did was like the worst thing I ever saw?

01:53:32.980 Like I fuck with you all the time online.

01:53:34.200 And I'm like, why are you like this?

01:53:35.640 Oh, I just say that shit.

01:53:36.300 I'm just like fucking around or whatever.

01:53:37.220 I was like, okay, well, it doesn't feel that way from my perspective, you know?

01:53:40.140 People do that shit all the time.

01:53:41.140 I'm like, bro, what the fuck?

01:53:42.380 And he's like, oh, I was just saying that shit just clowning, you know?

01:53:43.940 There was a kid at church.

01:53:45.420 They apparently dedicate a lot of time to drawing pictures.

01:53:47.540 Yeah, that too.

01:53:48.480 Yeah.

01:53:48.800 They spend a lot of time like drawing you specifically.

01:53:51.580 Yeah.

01:53:52.200 Obsessing over.

01:53:52.800 Yeah.

01:53:52.940 But then when you meet in real life, they're like, chill.

01:53:54.080 They're just like, oh, you know, I just like, I'm just like fucking around when I say that.

01:53:56.020 And they don't realize like the impact that it has or what it comes off as.

01:53:58.820 Cause it's not really thinking about that way.

01:54:00.100 You know, there was a kid at church who was like working the mass and I was leaving and

01:54:03.420 he recognized me and he identified himself as like one of the guys who had like just

01:54:07.080 said vicious stuff to me on Twitter, but they're always so excited.

01:54:10.260 And you know, their hands are like shaking when they reach and everything.

01:54:12.380 And it's just like, okay, I understand what this is.

01:54:14.620 And that's something I've struggled with.

01:54:16.100 I don't know if it's cause I'm Irish, but like I get mad at people online, you know, if they

01:54:20.480 want to come at me.

01:54:21.200 And so I've tried to like reorient my thinking where it's like, look, if you're saying this

01:54:24.420 about me and I'm saying this about you, then it's like anger.

01:54:27.060 But if you can have self-control and just like not reply, not get involved, then it just

01:54:32.480 becomes sad that this person is, you know, putting all of that negativity towards you,

01:54:36.320 spending so much time, like just trying to come after you.

01:54:38.960 Then it's just like pathetic.

01:54:39.760 Cause it's like, is this how you make a living?

01:54:41.360 In some cases?

01:54:41.960 Yes.

01:54:42.200 It truly, how old is your child?

01:54:43.740 Do you say 15 months?

01:54:45.060 Oh fuck.

01:54:45.500 Okay.

01:54:45.920 When you, there's, they're getting to that age.

01:54:48.960 There's something that happens when a child gets to like two, three, four, when you're

01:54:54.000 starting to be able to say like right and wrong, you don't do this.

01:54:57.140 And there's some, there's a phenomenon that happens where kids will start to do things

01:55:01.480 and they're really just looking for attention.

01:55:03.580 And it, and there's a phenomenon where it's so annoying when parents don't understand this.

01:55:07.540 There's the worst thing that you can do for a kid is a kid goes to hit somebody or do

01:55:09.860 something they're not supposed to.

01:55:10.680 And you look at the kid and you're like, oh my gosh, don't do that.

01:55:13.340 That's not good.

01:55:14.420 And you're kind of like laughing.

01:55:15.460 You're telling them how to do it because what the kid is saying is they're getting positive

01:55:17.640 attention for it.

01:55:18.240 And you're training them to engage in that behavior over and over and over again.

01:55:21.180 It's a very juvenile, very dumb thing that like, I shouldn't say dumb.

01:55:24.140 It's pretty sophisticated actually.

01:55:25.080 Cause they're trying to get that social validation.

01:55:26.820 It's a form of communication for them.

01:55:28.100 Yeah.

01:55:28.620 I think as people, we all have that in us.

01:55:30.380 And I, I'm going to be totally honest.

01:55:32.280 There are times when I have one accounts and I go into like other streamers chats.

01:55:35.680 I usually don't have time, but sometimes I'll do it.

01:55:37.140 And if I go with people, it's a lot of fun.

01:55:40.900 Cause I know what triggers me the most.

01:55:43.140 And I'll be like, oh my God, like I would so much rather watch this streamer do the

01:55:45.800 blah, blah, blah.

01:55:46.080 And you type.

01:55:46.460 And then when the streamer gets mad at you and like, why would you type that?

01:55:49.400 And they ban you?

01:55:49.920 I'm like, oh, I got him.

01:55:51.620 I got him.

01:55:52.200 Yeah.

01:55:52.460 It does feel good.

01:55:53.200 I understand the feeling.

01:55:54.240 Cause like, yeah, you get a lot of power.

01:55:55.500 It's like the kid getting the attention from the parents.

01:55:57.200 Like, yes, he saw me.

01:55:58.260 Yeah.

01:55:58.460 That's why you don't feed the trolls.

01:56:00.000 Exactly.

01:56:00.520 It exists for a reason.

01:56:01.640 Women do that in a more, I think, backhanded way.

01:56:03.700 It's like, you'll say something like, oh my gosh, Kelly, your acne scars are healing up so

01:56:07.120 great.

01:56:07.560 It looks so much better, but it's this, it's the same reason.

01:56:10.080 It's to elicit a response.

01:56:11.580 Yeah.

01:56:11.800 Yeah.

01:56:11.960 Yeah.

01:56:13.580 I'm looking up the rule.

01:56:17.020 What's rule 14.

01:56:18.460 Is that what it was?

01:56:19.380 I'll say that at the playground.

01:56:20.460 My sons are ever like beating kids up and up.

01:56:22.580 Yes.

01:56:22.860 Can you stop your son?

01:56:24.260 He's looking for a reaction.

01:56:25.740 Don't get involved.

01:56:26.840 Rule 14 of the internet.

01:56:27.840 If you argue with trolls, they win.

01:56:30.080 So, you know, I used to do, I used to do things on, on Twitter and stuff when people

01:56:33.520 would comment, I would say, uh, uh, something like, uh, under, uh, rule 14 of the internet,

01:56:40.940 this conversation is hereby terminated.

01:56:42.400 So like kind of trolling them back.

01:56:44.100 I want to, I want to move on a little bit though and ask you guys, uh, with sound of freedom

01:56:48.080 and Bud Light and other issues, I'm wondering if you guys think conservatives, the right,

01:56:53.080 whatever you want to call it, has begun to win the culture war.

01:56:55.380 Um, the more cynical part of me wants to say no, but I understand that, you know, it's

01:57:00.780 a tug of war.

01:57:01.720 So any ground gained, even if we shouldn't have lost it in the first place is like positive.

01:57:05.320 The Bud Light phenomenon, it strikes me as very unique.

01:57:08.500 I mean, obviously it is, but I don't think it's because all of a sudden we're figuring

01:57:11.340 out how to fight the culture war.

01:57:12.840 I think it's because you've got Bud Light, which people really weren't married to in the

01:57:16.140 first place.

01:57:16.580 You have so many other options for beers.

01:57:18.520 Um, and then it was something that was so in contrast to the average life of the person

01:57:23.080 who is, you know, drinking Bud Light to see like Dylan Mulvaney be put on the can.

01:57:27.480 And they're probably like, okay, I don't really like it that much.

01:57:29.200 Anyway, I'll switch to cores or whatever.

01:57:31.200 Um, with sound of freedom, that was like a legitimately good film.

01:57:33.640 I recommend everyone go see it to my knowledge though.

01:57:35.680 They made that a few years ago and they were sitting on it and they put it out recently.

01:57:39.300 They couldn't get it out.

01:57:40.300 And that is a good example of how to actually make culture.

01:57:43.260 I mean, culture literally means just like what you are doing, what you are making.

01:57:46.020 And the right doesn't understand itself, which is why we don't win anything.

01:57:49.040 And especially not, um, culture wars because we don't know how to make culture because

01:57:52.660 if you ask like a right-wing person, Hey, make me a piece of right-wing art.

01:57:56.020 They're going to draw like Ronald Reagan shooting an Uzi, riding a velociraptor.

01:57:59.780 It's like, okay, like yes, but not really.

01:58:02.180 If you put that mural up in say Portland, it might get defaced because they hate Ronald

01:58:06.660 Reagan, but more or less it's going to stay there.

01:58:08.340 You take something that's actually right-wing, like something that is natural and good, like

01:58:11.460 a mother cradling a baby.

01:58:13.220 If you put that mural up somewhere, that would get defaced much quicker and with much more viciousness

01:58:17.360 by some Antifa crazy woke person than would the mural of like Ronald Reagan, because

01:58:21.700 that is what is right-wing is just what is like natural.

01:58:24.200 Even if you look in like a lot of cradling a baby would get defaced.

01:58:26.840 Yes, absolutely.

01:58:27.860 Absolutely.

01:58:28.600 I don't think that.

01:58:29.260 Yeah.

01:58:29.620 If you look at a lot of, I mean, anything, anything could get defaced.

01:58:32.880 Honestly, but I don't think there's like these woke tards are like, Oh, this fucking traditional

01:58:36.460 family structure.

01:58:38.500 Honestly, if it were a white mother with a white baby, it would, if it were a black mother

01:58:44.220 with a black baby, it wouldn't.

01:58:45.140 But if it were a white mother with a white baby, it absolutely would.

01:58:47.520 I would bet money on it.

01:58:48.500 I, I, I think it's fair to say there's probably some higher percentage that you're correct.

01:58:54.800 But I think for the most part, art just gets defaced.

01:58:57.000 And I don't think anyone's going to be like, that picture must be defaced.

01:59:00.120 Like, I don't think.

01:59:00.580 Well, I guess an example of that would be, you know, you see this go on Twitter often

01:59:03.820 where there'll be like a family picture of like, you know, eight white kids and their

01:59:06.940 mom.

01:59:07.320 And you're so happy.

01:59:08.280 This is ecological terrorism.

01:59:09.660 Something about this seems wrong to me.

01:59:11.080 I've seen people say just having a large white family is offensive.

01:59:13.800 And even if you look at like the most popular tropes in films, they all are in a way like

01:59:18.000 right wing.

01:59:18.740 I mean, you know, the good over the evil, the strong over the weak, the triumph of good.

01:59:22.860 Jonathan Bowden writes about this extensively.

01:59:24.620 That's right wing?

01:59:25.260 Oh, absolutely.

01:59:26.020 Absolutely.

01:59:26.280 I feel like a lot of the traditional media is actually, if you, depending on how you

01:59:29.500 analyze it, a lot of the movies we had growing up was actually the overcoming of toxic masculinity.

01:59:33.200 That's true.

01:59:33.740 So they will take like a right wing sort of concept and they will redress it to be more egalitarian

01:59:38.820 because they will replace, you know, the man with the woman or they'll add like woke stuff

01:59:42.240 or gay stuff or what have you.

01:59:43.740 I'll fight a lot on this.

01:59:44.600 If you think of like classic movies, how many old movies can we think of where you've got

01:59:48.580 like the hotshot kid and he comes in and he's not a team player.

01:59:51.840 He never passes to his friends and he quits his team.

01:59:54.080 And then he has like a day or two off where he like hangs up with somebody.

01:59:56.580 He's like, oh, you know what?

01:59:57.620 I need to call him.

01:59:58.260 Like the Mighty Ducks is like a classic.

02:00:00.000 I'm sure there's a ton of other movies.

02:00:01.180 I guess.

02:00:01.560 And then the guy comes back and like either he wins the game because he's playing with

02:00:04.460 his team or he passes to the other kid on the team.

02:00:05.880 I feel like that's a pretty classic.

02:00:07.460 I wouldn't call it like right wing or left wing, but like in frames in today's society,

02:00:10.700 that feels like people would view it more as left wing because it's attacking toxic masculinity.

02:00:14.500 But like, I think there's a lot of classic tropes like that, like men overcoming their

02:00:16.900 more.

02:00:17.460 Yeah.

02:00:17.660 The jockey guy was always like the bad guy, you know, and it's the jockey guy was.

02:00:22.100 Yeah.

02:00:22.220 Look at Back to the Future.

02:00:23.480 It's because it was written by Hollywood nerd writers who.

02:00:26.180 Yeah.

02:00:26.420 You want to know what right wing artists?

02:00:28.500 And I think one of the issues is you are correct.

02:00:30.420 The right doesn't know itself.

02:00:31.800 And I constantly hear about this movie is too woke, so it's bad or whatever.

02:00:36.480 Captain America.

02:00:37.620 That's right.

02:00:38.100 That's a right wing movie.

02:00:39.000 Hands down.

02:00:39.600 Yeah.

02:00:39.700 It's literally a movie about a scrawny guy who's trying to lie his way into the army,

02:00:43.400 who becomes this like visage of stereotypical masculinity who fights Nazis to save the day.

02:00:49.540 It's like pro America.

02:00:51.800 His name is Captain.

02:00:52.460 Like that's like very right wing.

02:00:54.780 Conservatives didn't come out and cheer for that movie.

02:00:56.600 No, they ignored it.

02:00:57.400 We don't even know.

02:00:57.840 We're like a fish in water, unable to detect what is around us.

02:01:00.740 It's like hierarchy, the ascent of hierarchy.

02:01:02.500 Another this movie is so right wing that I thought it was right wing.

02:01:05.920 And I went to write a script for the video and I was like writing out like, huh, it'd be funny if I made this point.

02:01:10.560 And then Mr. Incredible, it's the Incredibles, said something that was like borderline fascist.

02:01:14.940 And I was like, now I have to escalate it even further.

02:01:17.580 Because you look at that movie, you watch, oh, superhero movie.

02:01:19.240 That movie is about like the emasculate.

02:01:21.000 Yeah, it was in the scene when he's arguing with Mrs. Parr about, you know, he goes out, you know, to rob with syndrome or to stop the robbery with syndrome, comes back and the wife is like, where were you?

02:01:30.120 And they're talking about, you know, the school and he's going on about how like the school punishes excellence and no one's allowed to be great anymore.

02:01:36.060 And I'm like, this is so cool.

02:01:38.120 So I'm like, OK, now I have to escalate what he's saying.

02:01:40.320 But it's true.

02:01:40.780 I mean, that movie is about like this man who had achieved greatness and now he's like literally incubated into this cubicle and he wants to use his strength to pursue good and everything around him is doing the opposite of that.

02:01:51.440 And look at syndrome, the villain.

02:01:52.780 What does syndrome want to do?

02:01:54.440 He literally says that he wants to make everyone equal because he's so traumatized by his past that he's like, well, now everyone's going to be super because no one will be because he was a dork and he wasn't Mr. Incredible.

02:02:04.240 So he couldn't hang.

02:02:05.600 He couldn't stop Bomb Voyage and he's taking it out on everybody else.

02:02:08.640 I applaud your encyclopedic knowledge of this movie.

02:02:11.400 I just watched the Black Clover movie on Netflix.

02:02:14.820 It's anime.

02:02:15.600 And this is another great example.

02:02:16.940 Matt Walsh ragging on anime.

02:02:19.000 He also rags on Disney.

02:02:20.780 I will.

02:02:21.260 So what's frustrating about that is that so we're not supposed to indulge degenerate culture, but then Disney movies are family friendly and we're adult conservatives.

02:02:29.700 Yeah, not anymore.

02:02:30.380 But adult conservatives can't even watch like wholesome stuff.

02:02:32.980 So we're all just supposed to watch Sound of Freedom all day, every day.

02:02:36.160 The Black Clover movie.

02:02:38.640 Is quite literally.

02:02:39.600 So the story of Black Clover in anime is people can at a certain age or whatever, they get a grimoire, a magic book that gives them magic powers.

02:02:49.900 This one kid who desperately wants to be a magic knight in service of the crown never gets one.

02:02:54.360 So he trains physically as hard as he can until he's so physically powerful.

02:02:58.260 He's actually actually stands a chance.

02:03:00.040 And then he gets, you know, some anti magic book with a sword and in the arena where they're doing the test.

02:03:06.520 This is the actual show, not the movie.

02:03:07.560 He has no magic powers, but in the first battle, he's so fast, he just slams into the guy who has magic.

02:03:14.500 Basically, the point of that show is hard work and merit makes you can make it possible.

02:03:19.620 In the movie they put on Netflix, the bad guy literally wants to bring about a new world of equality.

02:03:25.360 And in the great battle, the main character, Asta, is like the villain is like the royal elites are oppressing the people.

02:03:34.740 And Asta is like, no, whether you're a noble, a peasant, a farmer or a warrior, we're all working together to make our country better.

02:03:43.240 And I'm like, where are the conservatives to come out and actually celebrate things that uphold their values when all they do is complain about things that don't have their values?

02:03:51.700 And those movies with the weird, like fractured stories, like they made the craft too.

02:03:56.980 I'm like, they don't do well.

02:03:58.580 You know what I mean?

02:03:58.960 Like they're not culturally significant.

02:04:00.980 They got mad.

02:04:01.920 I went and saw the new Indiana Jones and I got like crap for it just because like it was woke or something because there was a female protagonist, which you ever seen those movies?

02:04:10.760 I mean, that's like always a trope and people are like, oh, it's woke.

02:04:13.260 She's such a girl boss.

02:04:14.200 But that's kind of the point is, you know, this girl is so prideful and annoying that her like literally 80 something year old godfather has to come in and like, you know, show her how it's done.

02:04:23.600 And because he is the adventure, he is Indiana Jones.

02:04:25.780 They got rid of Shia LaBeouf.

02:04:26.620 And you notice too, a lot of the like more like woke film critics don't like that movie.

02:04:31.120 And I think it's because Indiana Jones and James Bond, these kind of franchises are like one of the last sort of authentic displays of like real adventure or like a hero archetype that like men have to project themselves onto.

02:04:44.040 Because now if you look at like Captain America, like you mentioned, what that has devolved into is like Captain America fights for gay rights and stuff like that with the whole like MCU.

02:04:51.940 And I just don't think that that's as good of a role model for like what masculine leadership looks like.

02:04:56.800 I feel like for some of these things, firstly, I hate analyzing this as left wing versus right wing.

02:05:02.600 I think it's the most weirdly politics brain thing.

02:05:04.240 I think that there are good trope to talk about movies or bad trope to talk about movies.

02:05:06.380 Trying to figure out if it's like right or left is kind of strange.

02:05:09.320 Something that I'll be a little bit critical of conservatives on is sometimes, and I understand maybe because there's not good leadership in the Republican Party right now because there's a huge split between DeSantis and Trump and who knows what else is going on, is sometimes I think it would be better if conservatives could frame things positively rather than like attacking everything.

02:05:25.660 Because sometimes it feels like they don't have a good, like what would better representation be?

02:05:30.480 Instead it's just like, I don't like that there are so many black characters.

02:05:32.500 I don't like there's so many female characters.

02:05:33.840 I don't like the man did this or that or that.

02:05:35.160 It makes me wonder sometimes there are classic movies that I consider 10 out of 10 movies that if they were to be released today, I feel like conservatives would call them woke.

02:05:41.960 I feel like legitimately, I'm not saying this is an opinion.

02:05:44.840 This is a fact.

02:05:45.460 If you disagree, you're wrong.

02:05:46.460 Mulan is an amazing movie.

02:05:48.200 I feel like if Mulan got released today, I think conservatives would universally pan it.

02:05:52.480 Wow.

02:05:52.820 A woman steps into a man's job robbing honor from her father and fights just as good as the men do.

02:05:57.840 She even beats up the men.

02:05:58.640 Women aren't that strong.

02:06:00.000 Women can't do that.

02:06:00.800 That's not even, and it's emasculating as hell that she beats the boss.

02:06:03.580 I feel like that would be the criticism.

02:06:04.940 It's like, damn, I don't know.

02:06:05.640 It seems kind of sad.

02:06:06.520 I agree with the point.

02:06:07.960 Isn't that a true story?

02:06:09.540 Mulan?

02:06:10.140 Mulan.

02:06:10.800 It's like a folk tale.

02:06:12.380 A Chinese folk tale.

02:06:13.500 This is what I'm saying.

02:06:14.480 Captain America comes out.

02:06:15.860 It's a Marvel film about a guy who's trying to lie his way into the military to serve his country.

02:06:21.500 And where were the conservatives to be like, this is the perfect example of masculinity, Hollywood?

02:06:26.040 So here's what happens.

02:06:27.320 There is no positive signaling from the right on what they do like, only negative signaling on what they don't like.

02:06:32.880 Yeah.

02:06:33.080 And how does a movie theater, a movie studio react to that other than, hey, when we do this thing, all these people are cheering from this?

02:06:39.080 Ignore the haters.

02:06:39.980 If the conservatives came out and they were like, hey, look, Sound of Freedom is a good example.

02:06:44.100 It beats Indiana Jones on a Tuesday.

02:06:45.660 Obviously, Indiana Jones has like 85 million plus.

02:06:48.120 But for the Tuesday, Sound of Freedom did really, really well.

02:06:50.120 Creating an opportunity for studios to pursue these types of movies.

02:06:53.820 A positive reaction is better in terms of growing culture than a negative one.

02:06:57.440 We kind of had that with Top Gun Maverick.

02:06:59.520 I think that was kind of a return to is like, you know, wholesome male lead character, hero archetype, very pro Americana, kind of jingoistic with all the fetishization of the military, in my opinion.

02:07:10.540 But I mean, it's a pretty that's a pretty right wing movie.

02:07:12.760 There was even like like you mentioned conservatives.

02:07:14.740 And I think this is by our nature.

02:07:15.980 I don't know how we would ever get around this.

02:07:17.520 We don't know anything except for what we don't like.

02:07:20.320 Maybe it's because the values that, you know, enabled the society that we want to conserve to exist.

02:07:25.860 We don't exactly embody ourselves, which is why, like Destiny mentioned, you know, if a movie came out nowadays, it was very popular back in the day.

02:07:32.380 We'd be like, oh, there's too many female characters, too many black characters.

02:07:34.720 But at the same time, we wouldn't actually want to make a movie without that because it'd be like, well, we don't want to be racist because we are so like cocked to the morality of the left.

02:07:43.060 But the same thing with Top Gun Maverick, like conservatives like that, but they liked it because it wasn't woke, which is to say it wasn't, you know, anti-America.

02:07:52.140 It wasn't like, you know, over the top with like, you know, diversity, equity, inclusion, stuff like that.

02:07:56.380 But there are more subtle themes of that movie, which I do find this fascinating, like the left wing versus right wing analysis.

02:08:00.980 I don't think it's so much left or right versus like subversive or upholding of traditional values.

02:08:06.140 I think that is in itself left and right, like just as that even.

02:08:10.240 But like with Top Gun Maverick, you've got this character who is kind of like James Bond in the sense that like he's obviously, you know, top of the league.

02:08:16.600 He's excellent.

02:08:17.160 He's competent, but he also maneuvers around like this sort of bureaucracy that's like, no, you have to do this this way.

02:08:23.480 You have to do this this way.

02:08:24.600 Kind of makes his own rules.

02:08:26.000 And people really like enjoy watching that.

02:08:28.220 This sort of like guy who is like very competent at his job and doesn't have to be governed by this sort of like algorithmic process, which most men nowadays have to follow.

02:08:36.600 So I think that is very like inspiring to them to see that displayed.

02:08:39.140 But a conservative wouldn't understand that.

02:08:40.820 They would just watch and be like, oh, the plane.

02:08:43.320 But they wouldn't understand like why they like it, which is why Hollywood's like, oh, shoot.

02:08:47.580 They like this movie because America and planes.

02:08:49.900 Let's make another.

02:08:50.780 Let's make a reboot.

02:08:52.060 Doesn't make money.

02:08:53.100 Yeah.

02:08:53.220 With Bud Light, Starbucks, Target, I think you're starting to see companies get worried about leaning too hard into maybe not simply pride stuff, but politics in general.

02:09:05.340 Maybe.

02:09:05.580 You have to keep in mind that this is one.

02:09:07.840 This is kind of a forever losing battle is that if you have media or products that are focused on like diversity and inclusion, by default, you're going to have a much larger fan base.

02:09:17.480 And that's something that conservatives kind of have to factor in.

02:09:19.380 But it's not just about diversity and inclusion, because if you look at the Fast and Furious movies,

02:09:23.220 those are diverse.

02:09:24.720 They're totally diverse.

02:09:25.640 I have not heard a single person call those movies woke.

02:09:27.860 So there's a difference between wanting a broad audience and understanding this is a global market versus, oh, now this Viking Jarl is a black woman.

02:09:35.280 Like they're different.

02:09:36.520 That's one of the good things for, I want to say almost every Tom Cruise movie I've ever seen.

02:09:40.800 I don't know if Tom Cruise is involved firsthand in like declaring this or not, but I feel like almost like there are a lot of good female women characters in a lot of the movies he's in.

02:09:48.960 Did you see The Edge of Tomorrow?

02:09:53.080 Yeah.

02:09:53.300 I love it.

02:09:53.680 Yeah.

02:09:54.060 That's a really good movie.

02:09:55.320 The strongest character arguably is a woman, except for Tom Cruise, but you never, ever get the inkling of wokeness from that movie ever.

02:10:01.880 And Top Gun, though, one of the pilots is a woman.

02:10:03.920 I think the one that goes, and you never, there's never a scene where she's like, I could do it better than the boys.

02:10:08.080 Right.

02:10:08.380 Exactly.

02:10:08.540 It's not just about having strong female characters, which have existed in movies for a long time.

02:10:13.040 Like, I mean, the Aliens movie.

02:10:14.720 Aliens, Terminator 2.

02:10:15.260 That's not a problem.

02:10:16.200 Hunger Games.

02:10:16.680 I think it's when that's coupled with the undermining of men.

02:10:19.840 That's, I think, what makes it woke and what people don't like.

02:10:22.420 Yeah, like that's the left falling into the same trap as the right, where we have this horrible problem as humans, where we can never just fucking like something without shitting on the antithesis of it as well.

02:10:31.600 It's not enough to be a PlayStation gamer.

02:10:33.460 You also have to hate the guys that play Xbox.

02:10:34.860 It's not enough to empower women, you have to shit on men at the same time, you know.

02:10:38.780 And there are so many scenes in some of the empower, yeah, because you go back, like Sarah Connor from the Terminator movies, or Sigourney Weaver as Ripley in the Alien movies.

02:10:46.100 These are amazing representations of women, and there would never, or Kill Bill even, there are modern examples too, where you don't have those woke moments where, yeah, the woman is outperforming the guy, and it's like, this is why I don't need a man.

02:10:58.260 I think Hunger Games did a really, really great job of having a female lead.

02:11:03.100 She was the first ever female action star, did you know that?

02:11:05.760 Jennifer Lawrence said that, so.

02:11:07.460 Oh, that's so absurd.

02:11:09.980 Jeez.

02:11:10.740 I think that was a misspeak to be fair, I did see that interview, but yeah, she apologized for that.

02:11:14.480 But think about the Hunger Games arc as compared to a traditional hero's journey of a man.

02:11:19.720 Katniss Everdeen does not want to go to war, does not want to be a hero, and desperately tries to stop her involvement in the conflict.

02:11:26.380 I thought that was a really interesting take on a female perspective in an action movie, whereas the guy is usually like, I have to go and do this, or else the world will end.

02:11:34.800 And Katniss Everdeen is like, I don't want to go to war with you, keep doing it, I'm protecting my family.

02:11:39.300 I thought that was fantastic.

02:11:40.160 And that's the thing, too, is she doesn't fulfill the male archetype for that situation, like you said.

02:11:45.640 She acts like a woman, but she also is able to succeed.

02:11:48.740 I mean, she's not dealing with the conflict and just like, I am stoic.

02:11:51.660 I mean, she's breaking down crying, she's exploiting her beauty to get sponsors and advance further to protect her family, which is noble.

02:11:57.820 I mean, we're not saying that females are incapable of nobility, but you're exactly right.

02:12:01.060 I mean, they tell the story without people in the audience being like, wait a minute, they're trying to cast her as a male character, and that's weird.

02:12:07.520 I think that's what it is, is like watching the film, watching the characters and being able to tell that the way this character is behaving is unnatural.

02:12:14.320 They are doing this because they are trying to pretend that like everybody's equal and, you know, we can all just sort of like plug ourselves in where we will.

02:12:20.120 You know, it's another piece of media that came out, it was very popular a couple of years ago that was right wing, Squid Game.

02:12:26.240 Remember Squid Game?

02:12:27.300 Oh, totally right wing.

02:12:28.360 Because, and these, finish your point, I got to rant on this.

02:12:33.080 People were like, oh, it's like this critique of capitalism, like, okay, well, that's kind of right wing.

02:12:36.380 But then it was also like the way the characters were being successful wasn't like, you know, a girl boss.

02:12:40.920 Like there were the women characters who were using like their beauty and their sort of charm to like seduce the male characters.

02:12:46.060 It was like, you know, might is right.

02:12:47.840 I mean, the stronger ones were winning until they were stupid and uncalculated, like that big guy who ended up getting killed by the woman on the glass panel one.

02:12:55.700 Sorry, spoiler, it's been two years.

02:12:56.860 Watch the stupid TV show.

02:12:58.240 Only two years?

02:12:58.980 Yeah, so I think it's fall 2021.

02:13:00.580 Okay, I got to rant on this because when the movie came out, I was like, wow, this is a huge critique of communism.

02:13:06.440 And I get all these leftists being like, Tim's so dumb.

02:13:09.300 The guy who made it said it was a critique of capitalism.

02:13:11.940 And I'm like, then this guy doesn't know anything about communism or capitalism.

02:13:14.700 Let's use the red light, green light scenario because it's been a long time since I watched it.

02:13:18.260 But this was a really great example.

02:13:19.980 In which system, contestants, are you likely to find everyone wearing the exact same clothes starting from the exact same position and then being told good luck?

02:13:28.740 A capitalist system or a communist system?

02:13:30.840 Because in a capitalist system, some people are born wealthy.

02:13:33.560 That means they would be born with tools and advantages halfway across the room already and not have to start from the back.

02:13:39.360 If everyone's forced to dress the same, start from the same position, no matter how old or whatever, that is more of a forced equality system than a some people are naturally benefiting.

02:13:49.340 Hold up.

02:13:49.840 Okay, hold on.

02:13:50.440 I have not seen this, but I'm still going to fight with this take.

02:13:52.800 Okay, ready?

02:13:53.480 I've never watched a single episode.

02:13:54.600 Real quick.

02:13:55.840 There is a place in the most capitalist country in the world, or one of them, the United States, where you can find a scenario like that.

02:14:02.300 And it's prison where people tend to start behind.

02:14:04.540 They're all given the same clothes, blah, blah, blah.

02:14:05.660 Wasn't the point of the Squid Game show?

02:14:07.560 You're talking about the Squid Game show, right?

02:14:08.680 Yeah.

02:14:09.080 I don't even know what the movie is.

02:14:10.300 Wasn't the point of it was that every single person there had some big problem and that's why they were there?

02:14:15.160 So they're all facing debt.

02:14:17.640 Okay, yeah, yeah.

02:14:18.160 So then that is more of like people fucked up first and then kind of like instead of going to prison, you can go to the Squid Game to, I guess, like get money or whatever.

02:14:25.700 So I don't know if I would say that's a pet fair.

02:14:27.460 That feels like pretty capitalist to me, that a bunch of people that get fucked in life and debt are now in another fucking rat race where they've got to, you know, try to fight against people.

02:14:34.100 But that's not unique to capitalism.

02:14:36.240 I'm not saying it's unique to capitalism.

02:14:37.780 Insofar as that's usury.

02:14:38.940 That's like loans, which people on the right don't like.

02:14:40.940 The idea that this scenario is...

02:14:42.760 Yeah.

02:14:43.380 The idea that...

02:14:44.020 No.

02:14:44.120 I mean, the Catholic Church banned that.

02:14:45.920 That's why...

02:14:46.640 How do you buy a house?

02:14:48.080 No, I understand traditionally like usury is bad, but like I'm pretty sure Catholics want to borrow money, right?

02:14:52.240 Well, I mean, you want to borrow money, but we disavow usury.

02:14:54.680 We don't like usury, like loaning with high interest rates, exploiting people.

02:14:56.960 What is a high interest rate?

02:14:58.080 Exploiting, I mean...

02:14:59.080 I mean, well, think about it this way.

02:15:00.260 Like the way that people perceive money nowadays, I don't like...

02:15:03.080 Like with student loans, I sympathize with the idea of them being forgiven because I don't think that people understand how interest works, how money works.

02:15:09.100 And so...

02:15:09.780 And credit card companies know this.

02:15:11.040 I mean, these people...

02:15:11.540 It's predatory.

02:15:12.100 I don't like predatory money.

02:15:12.980 Wait, so do you think people should never be able to borrow money?

02:15:14.920 Absolutely not.

02:15:15.660 I think that there...

02:15:16.620 And I don't know what the exact number is, but there is something to be said about people exploiting people's desperation and need for money and trapping them into debt for more or less the rest of their lives.

02:15:25.840 All right, so how do we buy houses or cars?

02:15:27.740 I'm not saying that lending in itself needs to be outlawed.

02:15:30.120 I'm simply saying...

02:15:30.520 Well, who's going to lend money if you don't get interest on it?

02:15:32.180 Think about squid game.

02:15:32.480 The amount of debt you have to have to be in squid game.

02:15:35.120 I am saying that type of lending is predatory.

02:15:37.400 It's obvious before you make that amount of...

02:15:39.460 Or that loan that this should have been taken into account.

02:15:41.520 You can sort of tell what the people's circumstances are.

02:15:43.480 I think that should more or less be outlawed.

02:15:45.000 I think that's absolutely wrong.

02:15:45.980 I'm not saying if you have your 20%, 10%, 5%, buy a house.

02:15:49.400 But I'm saying these high interest rates, like 20%, 30% for credit cards, student loans, things like that, should absolutely be discouraged, not allowed.

02:15:56.060 These were not components of squid game, right?

02:15:58.440 They were in debt, though, right?

02:15:59.460 Yeah, they were all in debt.

02:16:00.680 And they were competing for a lot of money.

02:16:02.200 I don't think they were all in debt.

02:16:03.980 Well, they were all competing for money.

02:16:05.400 Right.

02:16:05.640 There was a big thing that filled with money or whatever.

02:16:08.040 Yeah.

02:16:08.480 But the idea that it's a critique of capitalism is incorrect.

02:16:13.620 Because to be fair, to try and give someone the benefit of the doubt, the movie is a critique of authoritarian corruption and centralized economics.

02:16:22.500 You keep saying movie.

02:16:23.060 It was a show, right?

02:16:23.740 Yeah, it was a show.

02:16:24.460 Oh, it was a show.

02:16:25.100 It was a show.

02:16:25.420 Oh, sorry.

02:16:26.020 It was a show.

02:16:26.520 There you go.

02:16:26.740 Go ahead.

02:16:27.060 Sorry.

02:16:27.360 Okay, yeah.

02:16:27.800 But yeah.

02:16:28.300 There you go.

02:16:28.600 Show.

02:16:29.040 But the general idea is you get these people saying, and even I guess they got created, it's a critique of capitalism because they were powerful people who are controlling and manipulating people this way.

02:16:38.820 And I'm like, that's not what capitalism means.

02:16:41.920 Communism being the political structure.

02:16:43.400 I'm not saying it was a socialist film.

02:16:45.120 I'm saying the idea of private trade versus public trade is not necessarily a component of what I'm criticizing.

02:16:50.260 I'm saying authoritarian control that puts people on the same clothing and then drops them off and exploits them is not what capitalism is.

02:16:57.860 You can call it corporatism.

02:16:59.260 You can say it can arise from an unchecked capitalism.

02:17:01.740 But if we're actually talking about private ownership versus public ownership, that's not what Squid Games was criticizing.

02:17:06.320 Yeah, there's this interesting phenomenon where people will try to make art that is conveying like a left-wing message, but then the audience perceives it much differently and ends up liking it.

02:17:15.280 Like you'll see my favorite example is Alan Moore, I think, is the author who wrote Watchmen.

02:17:20.240 And you've got this Rorschach character who was written expressly to be this, like, bad guy, this fascist character.

02:17:26.340 And everyone, like, loves Rorschach.

02:17:27.880 I mean, I watched that movie for the first time at the advice of my friend.

02:17:30.300 I was like, he's literally me.

02:17:31.600 I mean, he's like, you know, this moral absolutist.

02:17:34.160 He's, like, complaining about liberal hippies and all this other stuff is the crime and everything infests the city.

02:17:39.340 Far Cry 5, you know, you've got that one song, like, Keep Your Rifle By Your Side.

02:17:42.980 They write that to make fun of, yeah, Keep Your Rifle By Your Side.

02:17:45.540 They write that to make fun of, like, Christian conservative homesteaders.

02:17:48.200 It's like an anthem now.

02:17:49.240 I really love that song.

02:17:49.960 Same with Fortunate Son.

02:17:50.820 Like, a lot of people think of it as, like, oh, this, like, pro-America is like, no, that's not.

02:17:53.800 Yeah.

02:17:54.180 I mean, like, I would say conservatives aren't above analyzing things incorrectly, too, though, right?

02:17:58.580 How many conservatives, I think even at a fucking Trump rally, they play that Bruce Springsteen song, Born in the USA.

02:18:03.760 I don't care how you look at it.

02:18:05.600 You're never getting a pro-America song out of that, other than hearing the chorus over and over again.

02:18:10.160 I was going to say, Fahrenheit 451 was, there's a famous story where Ray Bradbury was, like, giving a lecture,

02:18:16.340 and they interpreted it as, the students interpreted it as the government censorship,

02:18:22.500 and he was like, no, no, no, it's about the public demanding it, and they were like, no, you're wrong.

02:18:25.260 He's like, I wrote this book.

02:18:26.740 But in terms of Rorschach, this is really, this is funny, because I think Alan Moore, the writer, right?

02:18:31.340 Was it Alan Moore?

02:18:31.980 He had said it was supposed to be a smelly, disgusting, like, far right, or whatever you want to call it.

02:18:39.160 People weren't supposed to empathize with this character.

02:18:41.500 The problem is, Rorschach, his, look, you want to make someone a bad character?

02:18:48.840 Don't make their arc that they caught a guy raping and murdering children, and it caused them to snap.

02:18:54.100 Because no matter how awful the person is in terms of his moral absolutism, you are like, somebody witnesses something like that, I can understand them snapping.

02:19:02.100 It's not a good character, but you're not going to hate, you're not going to feel hatred, you're going to feel like a sadness for what drove them to their menace.

02:19:09.020 Not only that, whether it's the comic or the movie, when he's in the scene in the movie where the guy tries to kill him,

02:19:17.160 and he grabs the tray and blocks the knife, and then splashes him with the boiling oil and says, I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me.

02:19:23.980 This is a guy who was defending himself and then told him to back off.

02:19:28.560 So by all means, criticize him and say he's supposed to be a bad character, but you write him in this way.

02:19:33.100 Like, come on.

02:19:33.840 I mean, that's a sign of a good character, right?

02:19:35.880 Like, even, like, I would argue that the first Avengers movie with Thanos or whatever was written as a very sympathetic lead villain.

02:19:42.340 So, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would say that, yeah.

02:19:44.580 Yeah, I've heard right-wing commentators say that it's anything where there's, like, gray areas morally as leftist because of moral relativism.

02:19:51.620 It's like, okay, I understand what you're trying to say, but a good villain will have their own justifications for what they're doing.

02:19:56.500 Otherwise, it's just cartoon evil, and that's not interesting.

02:19:58.780 And we went a little bit over, so I'll end with my final thoughts.

02:20:02.200 That's why Final Fantasy XVI is awful.

02:20:04.720 It was a terrible game.

02:20:06.500 I stand by this.

02:20:07.740 Everyone's allowed to be mad at me.

02:20:09.200 I won't spoil the game, but it is lower than one-dimensional.

02:20:13.640 So, yeah.

02:20:14.360 Which isn't always bad, though.

02:20:15.440 I will say that.

02:20:16.240 There is a time and a place for Game of Thrones, which is incredibly seven-dimensional.

02:20:21.560 Okay?

02:20:22.320 God bless the ending of that show.

02:20:23.700 It was so fucking horrible.

02:20:24.620 And there's also a time and a place for Lord of the Rings, which is incredibly one-dimensional.

02:20:29.080 It's literally the biggest, baddest, bad guy, and the goodest, goodest, good.

02:20:31.680 But, yeah, there's a time and a place to enjoy different types of media, I think.

02:20:34.260 I agree, I agree.

02:20:35.220 So, well, we've been going for a couple hours.

02:20:37.420 I don't know if there's anything you guys want to say before we wrap up or just shout

02:20:40.120 anything out.

02:20:42.720 Follow me on YouTube, youtube.com slash destiny, kick.com slash destiny, and instagram.com slash

02:20:47.220 destiny.

02:20:47.600 And I'm now on the new, hip, exciting Gen Z website, Threads.

02:20:53.640 Oh, yeah.

02:20:54.260 That just sounds like some 50-year-old executive trying to be hip with the kids.

02:20:57.940 Threads.com slash at destiny.

02:21:00.980 I can't stand Threads because my feed is just a bunch of random garbage.

02:21:04.300 It's all random people.

02:21:05.440 I just don't care.

02:21:05.920 You can interact with it so you can tailor the feed or whatever, right?

02:21:08.500 I pull it up and it's like some, dude, I don't know who, like, Frobo is and, like...

02:21:16.060 Listen, social media's in a dire strait.

02:21:17.360 It's either that or we pick up Twitter and we got more pictures of black people fighting,

02:21:19.880 all right?

02:21:20.140 That's where we're at.

02:21:20.980 That's where we're at right now with social media, okay?

02:21:22.780 Tim, stop being so fucking picky, all right?

02:21:24.860 Or Hunter Biden.

02:21:25.920 We love Hunter Biden.

02:21:26.420 Yeah.

02:21:26.660 More Hunter Biden, yeah.

02:21:27.580 I honestly, here's a hot take.

02:21:28.860 I would have been more offended if they had found marijuana than cocaine.

02:21:31.800 I will not elaborate.

02:21:34.100 You can find me at youtube.com slash John Doyle.

02:21:36.880 I really mean that.

02:21:37.640 I'm not just saying that.

02:21:38.460 I want you to go.

02:21:39.060 I want you to check out the content.

02:21:40.340 It's frequent.

02:21:41.000 It's wonderful.

02:21:41.680 Many are saying this.

02:21:42.580 Go check it out.

02:21:43.380 Thank you.

02:21:44.140 Okay, so I feel like you're kind of shaming with the frequent content thing, but I do upload

02:21:48.020 sporadically on my main channel, Lauren Chen.

02:21:49.920 That's Social Political Issues.

02:21:51.740 My media channel is Mediaholic.

02:21:53.180 Talk about pop culture.

02:21:54.340 And I'm at the Lauren Chen Twitter, Instagram.

02:21:57.560 And if you really like my stuff, I'm also on Blaze TV and TPUSA.

02:22:01.860 Oh my God.

02:22:02.520 Can I hijack one minute of your show?

02:22:04.100 Can I ask you a question?

02:22:04.940 I'm actually super curious.

02:22:06.500 Maybe.

02:22:07.060 When people talk about traditional relationships, it ties into our, more than the discussion

02:22:11.060 on Squid Games, okay?

02:22:12.540 To our original topic.

02:22:13.740 When people talk about like traditional relationships, traditional lifestyles and everything, how do

02:22:17.300 you personally, and obviously as much as you're comfortable saying it, balance the fact

02:22:20.920 that you're a mother, but you still want to work?

02:22:22.600 How do you like, yeah, what is that like in your mind or how does that?

02:22:24.640 So I guess Bernadine Bluntley, she's a, I guess, Christian mom influencer.

02:22:28.740 She's talked about this before.

02:22:30.120 So I'm totally just going to steal some of her thoughts.

02:22:32.220 It's like, if we look at the Bible, you know, especially in Psalms, there is the example

02:22:36.400 of the industrious wife who is supporting their family.

02:22:39.040 So I think it's pretty, I'm not someone who thinks that women should never leave the

02:22:42.600 home or work at all because that just even historically in very Christian societies

02:22:45.940 is not what it looked like.

02:22:47.400 So I view my responsibility as a wife and as a mother to help however I can with my family.

02:22:52.720 Now, right now, obviously 90% of the time I am just looking after my kid.

02:22:57.060 I film videos part time.

02:22:59.880 That's pretty different than the modern world of view of career number one or even 50-50

02:23:06.220 split.

02:23:07.160 So, I mean, and I've never claimed to be trad, but I think my stance is that having a family

02:23:12.980 is way more important and way more fulfilling than a career will ever be.

02:23:16.980 So in terms of my, how I spend my time, my day-to-day life does look like that.

02:23:21.320 But also I think it's important to acknowledge, like John was saying, we live in a world, there

02:23:24.820 are bills that exist.

02:23:25.920 Like I, I'm not going to shame.

02:23:27.900 And I've seen people online do this.

02:23:29.660 Like if a mom is working because she literally has to help her husband to pay bills and you're

02:23:35.000 shaming her, is that pro-family?

02:23:36.660 And it's a different thing to say, we should examine why we can no longer have all these moms

02:23:41.000 staying home because we need two incomes, but to actually take an individual, someone

02:23:44.580 who's actually married, actually has a kid and to shame that person because like she

02:23:49.900 needs money to support her family.

02:23:52.280 That's not pro-family.

02:23:53.400 That's not pro-Christian.

02:23:54.360 But we see a lot of people in the red pill community doing that.

02:23:56.700 And I'm just like, dude, like, what are you doing?

02:23:58.800 Yeah, the problem is if like the career is the utmost goal instead of the family.

02:24:02.960 Like if the career is serving the family, it's like, are you really going to have a problem

02:24:05.400 with that?

02:24:05.820 Also to clarify, I was not taking a shot at you.

02:24:08.100 People get mad at me because I only post like four times a year, so I had to gaslight

02:24:12.020 the audience.

02:24:13.540 Right on.

02:24:14.180 All right.

02:24:14.580 Are we done?

02:24:15.180 We're going to go eat cheeseburgers and have sushi.

02:24:18.880 A cheeseburger.

02:24:19.820 A cheeseburger.

02:24:20.700 I will have a cheeseburger.

02:24:21.840 All right, everybody.

02:24:22.440 Thanks for hanging out.

02:24:23.100 This has been a blast.

02:24:25.180 We're figuring out the format and all that stuff.

02:24:27.760 I do think it's funny that the more contentious the character, the more views you get.

02:24:32.240 And when it's like a calm, reasonable discussion like we had now, people are like, oh,

02:24:35.100 that was fun.

02:24:36.000 But you're not going to...

02:24:36.540 She knows spoken more about cuckoldry.

02:24:37.500 You're not going to get the shock content, you know?

02:24:39.220 You're not going to get the like smack down, the blood sports kind of thing.

02:24:42.780 But it was a blast.

02:24:43.940 So thank you all for hanging out.

02:24:45.300 We'll be back next week.

02:24:46.060 We're having a big one next week.

02:24:46.980 We've got some celebrities coming.

02:24:49.540 And so it should be...

02:24:49.960 Ooh, we have a hint for that?

02:24:51.240 Nope.

02:24:51.520 No, sir.

02:24:52.380 So we need to figure out the mechanics of it.

02:24:55.420 But I'm thinking like on Monday, we put out like a flyer like this Friday, 10 a.m.

02:24:59.700 Here's what we're going to have.

02:25:00.760 So maybe on Monday, we can do some announcement.

02:25:03.780 But people cancel.

02:25:04.600 So it's really tough.

02:25:05.440 But anyway, we'll be back tonight at 8 p.m. over at youtube.com slash timcast IRL.

02:25:10.340 So thank you all for joining us.

02:25:11.820 Thank you all for hanging out.

02:25:12.580 And we'll see you all then.

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02:25:58.260 May.

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02:25:59.360 Thank you.

02:26:01.800 Go ahead.

02:26:02.960 Bye.

02:26:03.380 Bye.

02:26:06.760 Bye.

02:26:07.300 of Starbucks.

02:26:07.520 I mean,

02:26:07.900 we'll meet upour.

02:26:09.060 Bye.

02:26:09.220 Peace.

02:26:09.880 Bye.

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02:26:25.840 Bye.

The Culture War - Tim Pool - July 07, 2023

The Culture War #20 - Debating Masculinity w⧸Destiny, John Doyle, & Lauren Chen

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