The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #21 - Is Drag Appropriate For Kids？ w⧸Maebe A. Girl & Kitty Demure

00:00:00.000 one of the biggest questions in the culture war is whether drag is appropriate for kids

00:00:06.220 but surrounding this is a bunch of other issues pertaining to what's being taught in schools

00:00:10.580 what books are appropriate in schools it's led to many laws in many states but it's escalated from

00:00:15.720 just outright saying some books shouldn't be allowed in schools to outright saying certain

00:00:20.020 medical procedures are outright banned in many states so we're going to discuss all of this and

00:00:24.060 we're being joined by two individuals two drag queens but i'll leave it to you guys to introduce

00:00:28.600 yourselves would uh would you like to just uh introduce yourself first maybe yeah of course

00:00:32.400 my name is maybe a girl my pronouns pronouns are she her they them and uh i happen to be the first

00:00:38.320 drag queen ever elected to public office in the united states i was elected to the silver lake

00:00:43.060 neighborhood council in 2019 and i was just re-elected to my third term so i am a trans person

00:00:48.720 and i'm also a drag performer all right thanks for joining us and then we also have billy i go by

00:00:54.660 kitty demure or haugatha sisti online um i'm a performing drag queen i haven't performed in a

00:01:02.660 while i went into management of the night gay night club in los angeles area um and i just

00:01:09.160 am here to talk about kids and drag and how i'm against it and the the video that i made in 19 no it's

00:01:16.040 2019 warning people of what's happening today well should we we'll start with that do you want to

00:01:21.000 explain what your video was about well my um back in 2019 i was noticing that this phenomenon

00:01:26.680 drag queens going into libraries and other venues to read to children and i didn't understand why

00:01:33.720 that was happening um i saw a picture of somebody i knew doing it and somebody i knew who was a

00:01:39.280 prostitute a drug user and it was just i i started noticing they were not representing the drag community

00:01:46.420 i think in a very flattering way and that's the one thing that got to me not only that but the

00:01:52.900 types of books they were reading to the children making them question gender sexuality things of

00:01:59.100 that nature that you really aren't um exposed to until you're older and have more of the brain capacity

00:02:04.660 to deal with that type of mature stuff so you made a video uh do you want to explain the like the

00:02:10.320 gist of the argument you said it wasn't appropriate is that what it was well i think and and and i don't even

00:02:14.820 understand why it even has to happen like why why can't adult why can't people read to their own

00:02:20.780 children i mean i would think a child would rather spend quality time with their parent reading to

00:02:25.240 them than taking them to somebody in an environment that is not set up for drag for me drag is it's an

00:02:33.160 illusion it's not a life it's not you know you don't go out every day in drag even though rupaul's

00:02:39.700 been famous for saying you know you're born naked and everything else is drag that's not really the

00:02:44.720 case because when we do drag we're deliberately being a characterization of a woman so i don't

00:02:51.660 you know believe you know just us dressing up is drag but um the the content in which they're reading

00:02:58.200 to the children i think is inappropriate um i think parents should be reading to their parents i think

00:03:03.940 um elderly people could come in and read to you know children they're often lonely and you know feel

00:03:09.220 useless why not that why not have police officers doctors you know important people you know people

00:03:15.020 we need more of in our society why can't they imprint and influence children i have a i have a

00:03:20.580 interesting and direct response i mean you're an elected official maybe yeah absolutely i mean uh

00:03:25.340 hearing what you've had to say i um i i disagree entirely um i think that i don't think that's it's

00:03:32.600 inappropriate for drag performers to read to children i think what is um i think what is

00:03:40.120 inappropriate is describing the drag community the idea of doing drag as a monolith and i think that

00:03:46.760 a lot of people especially folks who've never met a drag queen or a drag performer or who have ever

00:03:52.660 been to a drag show they have this idea of what a drag performer is but drag as with any community

00:03:59.280 uh is not a monolith and so in my opinion i believe that there are appropriate interactions

00:04:06.300 for particular situations so you know i perform in nightclubs and the shows that i do the performers

00:04:14.260 that i interact with in the nightlife scene uh totally different than what you see at drag queen story

00:04:20.140 hour and i agree that you know we shouldn't have uh kids at drag shows that are taking place at night

00:04:27.420 clubs which is not happening you know these are 21 and up venues but you have uh i think the idea of

00:04:34.200 of um discluding drag performers from being able to read to to kids i i think that's um i i don't

00:04:41.880 think that there's any sort of validation in that because i do think that there's a difference between

00:04:46.760 being a drag performer and reading to children in an age-appropriate context versus being a drag

00:04:52.760 performer and doing a more explicit uh number in a nightclub and there's a huge difference in that

00:04:59.760 and so this idea that drag performers are just sexually explicit performers i think is false in

00:05:06.880 its entirety even in the nightlife scene you will see so many different kinds of drag performers you will

00:05:13.360 see drag performers that do performances that actually are entirely appropriate for children and

00:05:18.780 then you'll see some that are not appropriate and i agree we shouldn't have kids in nightclubs that's

00:05:23.740 why there's 21 and up rules but when drag queens are reading at libraries when drag queens are are

00:05:30.280 doing drag queen story hour for kids uh 99 of the time they are reading books that are appropriate for

00:05:37.520 children i feel like the argument against drag queen story hour is the fact that there has been

00:05:43.680 perhaps a few people who have crossed a line and unfortunately that reflects on the whole community

00:05:50.440 and i don't agree that it should reflect on the whole community no i i agree with that but i am that

00:05:55.520 one percent that is speaking out we aren't a monolith like you said so i am the one that's speaking out

00:06:02.080 you won't find another one doing it and that's what bothered me is that we're just accepting this and

00:06:07.680 i'm like is everybody not seeing what i'm seeing sure you know people like to bring up mrs doubtfire

00:06:13.280 which i don't consider to be drag i consider that a desperate man and a father trying that's drag

00:06:18.260 that's drag honey but that for me drag is a performance it's a performance was robin williams

00:06:23.900 not performing in mrs doubtfire i think he was he performed as a character actor in a movie

00:06:30.840 portraying a father who was desperate to see his children and as far as the inappropriate drag um

00:06:39.460 uh the the children and stuff seeing it we unfortunately there are those pictures and

00:06:44.080 videos do exist there's videos of drag queens whether it was their fault or not and i'm and i

00:06:49.180 will concede that it's not always the drag queen's fault i think parents are bringing their children to

00:06:54.160 say brunch at hamburger mary's which is a venue where children can go in but then you have queens doing

00:07:01.100 inappropriate numbers i mean yara sofia from um rupaul's drag race came out with her boobs bouncing out

00:07:07.480 and then had to hide them once she realized that there was a child in the audience and they handed

00:07:12.100 her a dollar and it's you know and but yet she was modest and understood oh no there's a child here

00:07:18.320 but it's during the day at brunch and she's a professional i mean to not think a child wouldn't

00:07:23.300 be there i i think it's ridiculous well also i have to ask you um first of all yara sofia or any

00:07:30.920 number of drag performers that perform when they wear a chest plate you know it is a fake set of

00:07:36.560 breasts right what is actually so inherently offensive about that i'm personally an advocate

00:07:42.180 of free the nipple um i i don't think that people chest up should have to cover themselves if they

00:07:48.540 don't want to and i think that applies to cis males cis women trans males and trans women and

00:07:55.060 everything in between i don't think there's anything actually inherently offensive or sexual

00:08:00.720 about a chest and it's actually very interesting to me that uh men in our patriarchal society can

00:08:08.640 move about and and be totally bare chested and it's not sexual but a woman does it and it's sexual

00:08:15.580 why is that i'm i don't know it's our culture it's the way we've designed our country but is it so

00:08:22.780 it's culture it's i don't think that it's necessarily inherent there's nothing inherently

00:08:26.980 sexual about a chest but our culture has made the chest of a woman sexual right and so therefore we

00:08:34.620 are holding down women we're holding down trans women and people who have breasts why should they

00:08:40.540 not be able to walk around with their chest exposed what is that going to do to a child well that

00:08:44.640 that implies women have not taken participation within making it a sexual object i mean women do

00:08:50.960 sexualize their own breasts so ultimately they have decided that these mammary glands to feed

00:08:55.820 children are sexual objects so where where did you see that women are sexualizing their own breasts

00:09:01.640 because in my opinion men cis men are sexualizing women's breasts you don't you don't think that women

00:09:08.860 find their breasts sexual i i'm sure that many of them do but again no group of people is a monolith

00:09:15.680 so i don't think that the chest a breast is inherently sexual it is a a part of the human body

00:09:23.020 it is a a life-giving part of the human body uh that's why i'm totally in favor of women breastfeeding

00:09:29.640 in public of people breastfeeding in public because uh it shouldn't be an exposed nipple should not be

00:09:36.640 taken as sexual and just somebody bringing out their breast cannot be i don't think inherently perceived

00:09:42.420 as sexual and if it is i think it's on the end of the person perceiving it rather than the person

00:09:47.460 exposing themselves the interesting thing here is a a long time ago men and women weren't allowed to

00:09:53.560 expose their chests i saw a photograph from atlantic city from the 1920s in the middle of summer

00:09:58.980 everyone's wearing suits it was a very i i look at it from our perspective today i'm like it's very weird

00:10:04.520 and then you can see a couple decades later all of a sudden women are wearing uh like unitard bathing

00:10:10.060 suits one piece bathing suits men start wearing swim trunks all of a sudden men aren't wearing shirts

00:10:13.900 no one seemed to care that men's nipples right just culturally shifted this way we are starting

00:10:19.380 to see this in many states across the country where the uh new york for instance many of these states

00:10:24.000 it is considered a uh uh i believe a violation of the 1964 civil rights act to tell women they can't

00:10:29.660 expose their nipples if men can which instead of creating a circumstance where men must now cover

00:10:34.800 up it created the inverse circumstance where women now don't have to but here's where it gets

00:10:39.280 interesting because i think this is a very very interesting point i have a picture here uh libby

00:10:44.200 emmons posted of dylan mulvaney okay libby asks why is the new york post blurring male nipples in a

00:10:50.000 sheer dress dylan mulvaney of course publicly identifies as trans wearing a sheer dress where you can

00:10:56.100 visibly see dylan's nipples there's an interesting question being asked if dylan mulvaney is biologically

00:11:02.660 male and the argument is legally or not legally but in all social media nobody cares if a male is

00:11:08.380 showing their breasts what about dylan mulvaney makes it now that these these nipples are no

00:11:12.860 longer allowed to be seen on the internet you know tim it's so interesting i actually i saw this on

00:11:17.980 social media this morning before i came over here and dylan mulvaney has endured a a huge influx of

00:11:25.500 criticism hate and you know even people are saying why did she have to leave the nation i understand that

00:11:31.820 i i i took that in in a smaller context in los angeles in uh june earlier this summer the thing is

00:11:39.240 what what i immediately thought when i saw this image and when i when i saw the criticisms so you

00:11:44.740 want to say that dylan mulvaney is a man and then you're upset that dylan mulvaney is showing her

00:11:50.300 nipples so which is it is dylan mulvaney a man or is dylan mulvaney a woman who shouldn't expose her

00:11:56.140 nipples i i feel like the many of the critics you can't have it both ways you can't so if you

00:12:02.520 acknowledge that well we shouldn't see her nipples okay so you acknowledge her as a woman uh but if you

00:12:08.600 see dylan mulvaney as a man which is untrue which is not how dylan sees herself then what's the issue

00:12:14.740 you can't have it both ways right i mean i i personally don't see why they're blurred out

00:12:21.620 dylan mulvaney in my opinion dylan mulvaney but you just said that you that children should not be

00:12:27.460 exposed to to women's nipples so although dylan mulvaney is not performing in a drag show right

00:12:33.540 here she's on social media that's being broadcast much more broadly over twitter instagram etc than

00:12:40.840 performing at a drag brunch which i don't even think that dylan identifies as a drag queen dylan is a

00:12:45.980 trans person when you really care about someone you shout it from the mountaintops so on behalf of

00:12:53.760 desjardins insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care

00:12:59.220 about you home and auto insurance personalized to your needs weird i don't remember saying that part

00:13:07.680 visit desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care did i mention that we care

00:13:15.280 so what is it is it offensive that she is trans is it offensive that her nipples are showing

00:13:22.860 and if her nipples are showing but you think that she's a man then what's the issue well i think it's

00:13:28.020 offensive that they're blurred out and they're referring to i agree and and they're referring to

00:13:32.100 him as a her because i think that dylan mulvaney is an actor that's what i think i think he's a he's um

00:13:38.720 he he exists for publicity stunts um and a lot of people including myself while we might use the

00:13:45.920 pronoun she we do it out of politeness not no i disagree i'm sorry to cut you off but i will tell

00:13:52.120 you this is not about how everybody else perceives we should be addressing people the way that they see

00:13:58.700 themselves and that is truly a big part of the trans issue is a lot of the reason that that trans

00:14:04.820 people portray themselves in a certain way is because they want the world to see themselves the

00:14:09.940 way that they see themselves and so dylan sees herself as a woman she is a trans woman so to then

00:14:18.000 call her out and say well no you're a man and you still can't show your nipples there is a huge

00:14:22.960 hypocrisy in that i agree i don't think they should be blurred yeah it's weird also with the white house

00:14:28.980 when you had uh i believe it was two trans women uh i'm sorry two trans men and a trans woman

00:14:33.820 you had the trans woman covering up her breasts and the trans men were not outrage was focused on

00:14:41.300 the trans woman though ultimately the white house did address all three of them i bring up the same

00:14:47.480 question because there's got to be a logical a logical uh answer or question as to what is what is

00:14:54.740 what is the issue at hand is the issue that as soon as a person grows breast tissue through hormones

00:14:59.920 whatever we all of a sudden decide there have also been even outside of the context of transgender

00:15:04.500 issues on instagram for instance women uh females will take uh pasties of male nipples over their

00:15:11.240 nipples and post pictures because there seems to be some kind of logical inconsistency here either we

00:15:16.860 say no nipples for anybody or we say nipples for everybody that i agree i'm i don't have the answer

00:15:21.860 it seems seems something's broken there no i agree with you and until our society stop sexualizing

00:15:27.640 nipples it'll be that way and that including particularly female nipples right and that's

00:15:33.100 the thing female nipples so is it on the individual to cover up their nipples or is it on society to say

00:15:39.500 hey maybe i shouldn't sexualize somebody's body just because they have a body we all have bodies

00:15:44.580 and we all have sexuality within us we all have sexual components of ourselves and that's an

00:15:49.980 individual decision not i'm not saying every every woman has to go out there and show off her breasts

00:15:55.500 if she's not comfortable but if you are comfortable you should be able to do that just in the way that

00:15:59.880 men can do that and that's it's part of the patriarchy so what how would you define patriarchy

00:16:05.720 i would define patriarchy as uh society defined by men which we are sort of i think we're having a

00:16:13.880 really important societal conversation about this right now but this is something that has

00:16:18.960 dictated society since um since the beginning of of history you know when we look at um different

00:16:26.720 parts of society through historical times you see that uh men have have sexualized women and then

00:16:34.000 women end up having to be the victim because they are being sexualized so i don't think that in all

00:16:39.060 instances women are sexualizing themselves i think that men are often sexualizing women and therefore

00:16:45.200 women have to cover themselves because men can't control themselves we see this i think the most

00:16:53.060 pronounced example would be in middle eastern countries the uh niqab i believe is probably

00:16:58.560 pronouncing it right but women have to completely cover their entire bodies except for their eyes

00:17:02.900 i don't know enough enough about the culture of religion my understanding is that and this could be

00:17:08.220 completely wrong is that the men argue that they can't control themselves if they see a beautiful

00:17:12.520 woman therefore the women must cover up not that the men should not attack the women something you

00:17:16.780 think that's fair tim that women should be forced to cover up absolutely not yeah yeah i think most

00:17:21.720 americans are probably like no i would then why then why does a drag performer who is performing in a

00:17:27.540 drag brunch or a drag show that folks are consenting to attend to have to cover themselves up and if a

00:17:34.780 child happens to be present what is that going to do to inherently groom them or or sexualize them

00:17:42.820 well i don't see i don't necessarily think a breast is a sexual thing or is something to be

00:17:50.000 sexualized it's what you do with the breast now in in a in numbers this is what i don't understand why

00:17:56.340 you you think that they're they're not sexual things drag queens will wear big breasts they will rub

00:18:01.900 them they'll you know motorboat men and all of them all of them no but can we just say that

00:18:08.820 everything i say is not an umbrella that encompasses every single person yes but the rights in the

00:18:13.920 argument against drag culture is based off of these few instances these outliers and folks are taking

00:18:21.180 those instances and applying it to drag should not be allowed around children whatsoever no i i understand

00:18:26.860 that and i think that that is the drag community's fault and that's why i was the adult who came out

00:18:33.060 and said something can you know why can't if we were going to expose children to this why is it going

00:18:38.860 to be a a drag queen with their legs spread open reading to kids about hey you know maybe you're a girl

00:18:45.600 maybe you're a boy you know it's like there's no pr or there's no like head of the lgbtq inc that is like

00:18:52.800 managing these things yeah but i think i also think that's a total mischaracteration uh of what

00:18:59.180 drag queen story hour is you know we see these few clips that are spread around on the internet

00:19:04.300 a lot of right-wing folks like to spread these images of course there are people who cross a line

00:19:09.860 who cross a boundary and i disagree with that i don't think that uh drag performers who are engaging

00:19:16.040 in drag queen story hour should be doing that kind of performance but i also think that is a very

00:19:20.780 small minority of what is actually happening and any any person any adult who brings their child to

00:19:27.160 drag queen story hour is doing so in a consensual manner and i don't think that they're bringing their

00:19:33.060 kids to be sexualized i mean you have to be a total pervert to want to sexualize your own child

00:19:38.440 but that is the way that the lgbtqia community and specifically drag performers are being portrayed

00:19:43.900 because of this particular kind of language i have done drag queen story hour a couple of times i did it

00:19:49.800 at dtla proud a few years ago and i did it actually somewhat recently um the lgbt center in los angeles

00:19:58.220 hosted uh trans pride and i was booked to do drag queen story hour and you know what i showed up and

00:20:04.620 i brought very age-appropriate books these were literal children's books about um you know about

00:20:10.320 spirituality and about acceptance and about you know loving yourself and loving others there was nothing

00:20:15.700 sexual about that and everybody in the room they enjoyed it the parents enjoyed it the children

00:20:20.440 enjoyed it there was nothing sexual about it and yet there are so many people who are claiming that

00:20:26.480 oh drag queen story hour is grooming and sexualizing children and that is not the case the thing is there

00:20:32.500 might be one or two or a couple of people out there that might not even realize that they are crossing

00:20:38.400 a line because they're used to performing in nightclubs exactly venues but the thing is i don't even those

00:20:44.240 people i don't even think they're attempting to sexualize children there might be some things that

00:20:48.180 are inappropriate but that's the thing there are no it's hard to pick out a specific guideline that is

00:20:54.300 going to apply to every single age group and every single person and it's up to the parents to decide

00:20:59.000 do i want to bring my child to drag queen story hour but that's actually the grooming argument that

00:21:05.260 certainly some many of the drag queen stories are just someone in drag reading stories but as you

00:21:11.420 mentioned some people are crossing the line and then you have the more egregious examples and when

00:21:15.360 i say some when i say some okay there has to be millions at least thousands to hundreds of thousands

00:21:22.360 of drag performers and many of them are doing drag queen story hour you cannot outlaw the entire idea

00:21:29.180 of it because one person has done that because on the flip side when we think about cis heteronormative

00:21:34.700 culture there are dozens more examples of people who are grooming children who are actual pedophiles

00:21:41.880 but are we saying we need to outlaw cis heteronormative culture no the thing is we need to find those

00:21:48.440 particular individuals and make sure that they are not actually grooming children and the fact of the

00:21:53.520 matter is most drag performers are not grooming children most drag performers when they are doing

00:21:58.280 engaging in drag queen story hour there's benefits to that the benefits of of drag queen story hour

00:22:04.000 you know kids love being read to you know i remember being read to as a child i remember sitting in the

00:22:08.880 library and i remember uh the librarian being a little boring and just oh kids here's the story here

00:22:15.200 you go when kids are imaginative kids kids love imagination and and fantasy and fun and there is

00:22:22.820 something that is very imaginative and fantasy filled about drag performance whether or not you are a cis or

00:22:29.760 trans drag performer and so children love to be read to by drag performers because it's fun and it's

00:22:37.600 imaginative and it's fantasy filled and they're not even saying okay you have to be a drag performer you

00:22:43.600 have to be trans you have to be lgbtqia and that's part of the the argument that i disagree with that that

00:22:49.640 lgbtqia people and specifically drag performers are grooming children we're not grooming them we're

00:22:54.960 trying to say that you are welcome to be you as you are if you are cis heterosexual fabulous if you

00:23:03.200 end up being queer fabulous we're not trying to steer you any particular way but i remember being a a

00:23:09.200 queer child and i remember not having any sort of um mentor or model to look at and i felt very othered

00:23:18.800 and i felt very different and it actually caused a lot of mental health problems and so when you

00:23:23.680 actually introduce children to the diversity of gender identity to the diversity of sexuality to

00:23:30.320 the diversity of everything other than the says this is heteronormative family you show kids that

00:23:36.640 it's okay to be you as you are you don't have to follow this particular guideline that is again defined

00:23:42.960 by the patriarchy and you can be whoever you are and you're welcome to be who you are i'm not saying

00:23:48.240 you must be trans you must be a drag performer but if you end up being that when you grow up

00:23:53.520 great and i remember not having that sort of influence and i remember the impact that it had

00:23:58.640 on my mental health as a queer youth in the late 1990s in the early 2000s not seeing anybody that was

00:24:05.440 like me anywhere in society and it made me fearful to be who i am are you familiar with desmond is amazing

00:24:13.280 uh yes do you have uh any thoughts i'll ask some questions but i just want to let you open up yeah i don't

00:24:19.280 i don't know desmond i have seen desmond online i know that they are a queer youth who wanted to

00:24:25.520 engage in drag and i think that's perfectly okay i don't think that desmond's parents are behind the

00:24:31.920 scenes saying you have to be a drag performer we're trying to groom you to be trans there is actually no

00:24:38.320 benefit to it because queer people and trans people are overwhelmingly ostracized in the society that we

00:24:44.640 live in that i i don't think that a person who didn't want to engage in that would choose to

00:24:49.760 engage in that knowing the kind of ostracism and criticism and hatred that would come to follow

00:24:55.760 the things that i've said read about this child are disgusting and that is that's so much more

00:25:00.720 horrific than this person saying i want to put on a skirt and a wig and perform are you you're

00:25:06.400 familiar with go-go dancing i assume yeah and bikini bars sure yeah in many states what they define

00:25:13.600 as stripping is the removal of any clothing on stage with no nudity the the act of removing

00:25:18.960 clothing is the stripping of so tim so this is this is stripping if you are on stage for a bunch of

00:25:26.720 adults i'm on stage for a bunch of adults right now offering you money for the explicit purpose of

00:25:31.280 seeing you remove clothing this is where you have uh you know context matters right like i think but i

00:25:38.480 think i i get where you're going at tim but here's the thing drag performers like there is uh the

00:25:43.760 reveal of drag i i think that a lot of people just aren't familiar with drag culture and there is this

00:25:48.320 idea of performing where there's a reveal and that doesn't mean stripping down and being sexual taking

00:25:54.720 off a garment to show an undergarment does not mean that it is stripping or being sexual so in uh i think

00:26:01.840 south dakota might be the state but there's a bunch of states women aren't allowed to be fully nude on

00:26:05.600 stage so they have what they call bikini bars or go-go bars the women will go on stage and do what

00:26:11.120 is in every way identical to what desmond does on stage here removing an outer layer of layer of

00:26:16.080 clothing in exchange for money from the audience desmond is a child in this i could be wrong it's

00:26:20.880 been it's been several years this is 2019 my understanding was that this was an adult

00:26:24.960 bar full of adult males watching the child perform on stage and do things that many have argued were

00:26:31.600 sexually suggestive especially in the gwen stefani portion of this uh and then in exchange for money

00:26:37.360 so if so for many people who live and we can just say perhaps in a more conservative area this is

00:26:43.360 indistinguishable from stripping so this is an 11 year old doing the same things bikini dancers do for

00:26:48.080 money yeah but i i don't think that it's indistinguishable from stripping you know i as a

00:26:51.920 drag performer i've been performing for eight years now and i will go out there and i might come out in

00:26:57.040 something like this where i'm wearing a blazer and i perform and i take it off and people will

00:27:01.200 cheer and give me money are they cheering and giving me money because i'm stripping and turning them on

00:27:06.480 no it is entertainment and it's a performance and it's a part of queer arts i don't think that this

00:27:11.520 child i don't think that they are trying to be sexual i don't even think that the parents are

00:27:16.240 trying to sexualize the the um the person i think that this is a kid who has seen drag culture

00:27:23.200 knows that they're queer and wants to engage in it in a way that is age appropriate did that child

00:27:28.960 get get naked on stage i don't think so bikini dancers don't get naked either yeah so that's

00:27:35.680 that's the issue yeah but also there's a difference between standing up in a box and and gogo dancing

00:27:41.440 you know thrusting yourself out there for very obvious sexual intentions versus somebody who is

00:27:47.200 just doing who is just doing a drag performance and i think that's something that really bothers me

00:27:52.400 is that people equate drag performances with with strippers and with adult entertainment drag

00:27:58.160 performances are actually all ages but there are specific performances that are appropriate for

00:28:03.280 say drag queen story hour versus a nightclub when you really care about someone you shout it from the

00:28:10.880 mountaintops so on behalf of desjardins insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our

00:28:16.800 clients that we really care about you home and auto insurance personalized to your needs weird i don't

00:28:25.360 remember saying that part visit desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care

00:28:33.280 did i mention that we care

00:28:34.320 um when it comes to this i i don't know if see i i was kind of like this kid with on the opposite

00:28:47.280 direction i i've gotten to little league because i was groomed and and felt pressured to make my

00:28:53.600 parents happy hello i could agree with that so i went into little league when i really wanted to i was

00:28:59.520 really a gay kid in my in my day we didn't use queer queer was a slur i'm i'm 53 years old so i'm

00:29:05.040 a little old from a different generation so queer was um an offensive thing to call people and and um

00:29:12.640 as far as like influences gay influences um i grew up now this is in the 80s i grew up across the street

00:29:17.680 from two moms um i think a lot of this tolerance that that that they're trying to thrust on the public

00:29:23.840 starts at the home and it's like i these kids come from tolerant homes and so yeah but what about

00:29:30.240 the kids that don't come from tolerant homes well i don't think those are the kids that are being read

00:29:33.920 to yeah exactly and so but that's the thing there are queer queer children being raised in homes that

00:29:40.800 are intolerant i myself grew up in a home where uh my parents became much more tolerant when they realized

00:29:47.200 that i was a queer person and there was a lot of hesitation and objection at first and that was based off

00:29:52.800 of what they had learned growing up and so we're perpetuating this culture of gay is weird lgbtqia

00:29:59.200 is oh that's other you don't know don't engage in that that's adult content that's that there's

00:30:03.760 something wrong with that i wish i had grown up in a school environment where i had adults and other

00:30:10.000 people around me saying it's okay to be who you are i think one of the oh go ahead no i just i guess

00:30:16.720 because i like i said i grew up in an earlier time and i did not have your experience at all my

00:30:20.800 my experience came from other kids i you know i don't know what i can i say faggot on here i was

00:30:26.080 called a faggot every day every day of my life i i was called a faggot and um i was still myself and

00:30:33.200 i i don't know and i think that's what we need to be teaching kids is not is not for for me to tolerate

00:30:38.720 something that you do but for you to be able to take my opinion and just say okay and still be you

00:30:47.280 but that's the reason that that doesn't happen is because queer kids are growing up in environments

00:30:51.840 that are not necessarily queer and when you ban any sort of lgbtqia education from school levels

00:30:58.240 until you get to high school that's where you breed people who fear and who other folks who are lgbtqia

00:31:05.600 the reason that you were called a faggot the reason i was called a faggot was because those other kids

00:31:10.000 grew up environments where they heard their parents calling other people faggots

00:31:13.760 right and that's what we're trying to do is trying to uh to uh let folks and let kids today

00:31:21.840 in this generation know that it is okay to be queer it's okay to be lgbtqia and again there's

00:31:28.400 nothing inherently sexual about being lgbtqia just in the same way that there's nothing inherently

00:31:33.920 sexual about being cis heteronormative but and there is there is a connection there of course according

00:31:39.360 to who you love and who eventually you have sex with but that doesn't mean that we're trying to

00:31:43.840 teach kids about explicit like i've got i gotta i gotta completely uh disagree we have these two

00:31:50.000 books here genderqueer less so this book is gay more so explicitly uh uh teach about overt sexual acts

00:31:57.040 depicting them and were provided to children uh sometimes now tim let me ask you when you say

00:32:02.400 children what do you mean by children because children could be zero to 18 what do you mean by

00:32:06.640 children so this was uh 10 year old this is middle schoolers this book is gay specifically

00:32:10.480 was given to you don't think that middle schoolers who are starting to uh go through puberty and who

00:32:15.280 are starting to have um sexual um intercourse and starting to experiment with sexuality you don't

00:32:21.200 think that any of them are queer and might need to learn about queer experience there's a difference

00:32:25.600 between sex ed and this book is gay which teaches those children how to use grinder right i think

00:32:30.960 it's it's this goes we can go back to earlier on i think where a lot of the argument comes from

00:32:37.040 uh there there is the granular and there's the macro when you look at a single instance of say

00:32:42.080 just someone dresses a woman drag reading to a child we can argue well it's simply just reading

00:32:47.040 a story but when you look in the whole big picture of it you have these instances where

00:32:51.520 this book in particular teaches about eating feces okay well i want you to know that i don't

00:32:57.360 personally endorse any of these books it's really easy to put two books on the middle of this table

00:33:02.080 for this particular interview interview and say hey look this is what's being shared this is not

00:33:07.120 in every this is not in every single we have a bunch of books but here's the thing is it's really

00:33:12.080 easy to pick two books that to pick that and say well this is all this is what lgbtqia education is

00:33:17.920 about and that's not true let me tell you this yes yes but in the netherlands in the netherlands

00:33:22.640 they're uh something that they do is they actually have comprehensive sex education sexual education

00:33:29.040 for everyone from kindergarten through 12th grade but here's the thing kindergartners are not learning

00:33:34.480 about sexual intercourse they're learning things in an age appropriate manner they're learning that oh

00:33:40.080 this person might have two daddies or two mommies or something along those lines it's not explicit so

00:33:46.000 while i agree that this kind of content shouldn't be in a lot of schools there is a certain age that you

00:33:51.760 approach when you are a teenager and you've gone through puberty and you're starting to

00:33:55.920 self-actualize and self-realize and figure out who you are and if you don't have resources again you

00:34:00.880 are feeling othered and you're feeling different you're feeling like there's something wrong with

00:34:04.080 you i can speak this way because i was somebody who recognized that i was queer when i was a teenager

00:34:10.320 and the reason that i promote this idea that we should have lgbtqia age appropriate education

00:34:18.080 through all levels of school is because i don't want any other child to feel how i felt going

00:34:22.960 through school whether it be through adults or my peers and these are the books that are being

00:34:27.040 adamantly defended so for instance well i'm not defending these books right just to let it be known

00:34:31.600 i'm not defending these books there's probably explicit imagery in here that you're going to show

00:34:35.280 me it's the same thing that well you might not show them but whether these books have them there

00:34:40.880 are a lot of right-wing people who are bringing about these books that do have explicit imagery

00:34:46.160 i don't condone that i don't think that we should have books for you know elementary school students

00:34:51.440 that depict images of people getting blowjobs or having intercourse i i disagree with that what i

00:34:57.440 agree with is age appropriates um letting people know that queer people exist that cis heteronormative

00:35:05.600 culture is not the only thing out there and you yourself might be queer and don't think that

00:35:10.880 there's something wrong with you because it's not everything that you see around you so so this is

00:35:16.000 one of the principal issues uh particularly with this book is gay a teacher provided to middle

00:35:20.240 schoolers kids between the ages of 10 and 12 it describes scat right and things things like that

00:35:25.840 is absolutely inappropriate for 10 or 12 year olds when people on the right predominantly not not not

00:35:31.040 completely but they tend to be the one leading the charge on these things said hey wait a minute

00:35:35.440 in fact what happened was parents called the police saying that the teacher was providing you know

00:35:39.920 illicit materials to the children nbc news ran an article showing a different book about what you

00:35:45.600 would describe as just explaining queer experiences and did not explain was it what was in the book it

00:35:51.040 was only because right-wing personalities disaffected liberals libertarians whatever the people on that

00:35:56.320 side started tweeting images of the book showing that it's not just i've seen them i've seen them i know

00:36:01.680 what you're talking about yeah but so what happens is when someone says hey this is not appropriate for

00:36:06.480 kids the response that you see for the most part from high profile personalities maybe not you

00:36:10.880 is defense of the book in fact our guest who came on the show a couple weeks ago adamantly defended this

00:36:16.480 book being for children being in middle schoolers saying it was a good book and it shouldn't be censored

00:36:21.120 that is what fuels concern among those who are saying this is grooming my my issue is in one of one of

00:36:28.960 these books that are talking about queer or gay things they that's where they refer to scat in in these

00:36:35.360 books to be so but also do you think that um it's that scat is limited to right that was b tq i

00:36:41.280 queer culture and that's guarantee you there are straight people out there engaging in scat that's

00:36:45.120 exactly right that is exactly my point and why are these are selling it as a gay thing

00:36:49.520 right and so who i don't know who the hell authored that book who claims that it's scat is a gay

00:36:54.080 thing but i think we should be going after the author for for them being inauthentic because i i i

00:36:59.600 think this is a a really good point that often when it comes to so so scat specifically i can't believe

00:37:05.600 where i'm talking about it it's in the glossary it's in the can you define it tim if it's in the

00:37:10.560 glossary reads eating poop that's what it says uh then it says scissor sisters uh it describes see

00:37:18.240 tim don't you see how when these things are are very like adamantly portrayed in the media

00:37:25.520 folks who don't know or don't think that they know queer people or trans people this is what they

00:37:30.640 think queer culture is about i can tell you as a queer i can tell you as a queer person that queer

00:37:35.840 culture is not about scat i don't care if there's a rainbow on there right i want to know if some

00:37:40.880 adult wants to you know engage in that whatever that's on them but i i will tell you that the

00:37:46.560 majority of of of people who want to see lgbtqia education in schools in an age-appropriate manner

00:37:55.760 don't want to see kids being taught about scats well and that's the fact of the matter but the thing is

00:38:01.600 folks who again don't have never met a queer person or think they haven't met a queer person or a trans

00:38:06.320 person they think this is what all queer people are saying hey kids learn about scat no that's not

00:38:12.640 the case at all and i i very adamantly disagree with that but again i don't think this book should

00:38:17.520 be uh banned from libraries but maybe it shouldn't be in an elementary library that tends to be the

00:38:24.480 main issue right with it but that's the thing you mentioned earlier you said somebody said well

00:38:29.760 well that's the thing somebody said what what what what bothers me is that so many people who are

00:38:35.760 against lgbtqia education in schools they take these outlier situations they take this one person

00:38:43.600 who has said this and makes it the representative of the whole lgbtqia community which is is not true

00:38:50.240 that's false and so i disagree that kids should be you know given books that have explicit imagery

00:38:57.200 and when i say kids i mean you know elementary school students when you start to go through

00:39:01.680 puberty um you're going to start to do your own exploration kids are smart enough to know how to

00:39:06.480 use the internet to go and find porn if they want to do that so i don't think they should do that but

00:39:12.400 kids are going to do that i remember being a queer teenager and i remember having to seek out uh

00:39:18.560 queer pornography because i couldn't find it anywhere well so so would you agree with the floor

00:39:22.800 legislature and ronda santus in removing these books from the curriculum you know here's the thing

00:39:26.960 are these books in the curriculum in the schools i believe because there's a big difference between

00:39:32.960 these books being in the curriculum versus being available for somebody to rent out at the library

00:39:37.840 if they want and what is wrong about grade school libraries uh but is the let me ask this i don't know

00:39:44.000 the i don't know the conditions of every school in florida is every because a lot of schools have

00:39:49.440 multiple grade levels if there is a school that is you know elementary through high school then yeah

00:39:55.360 i'm sure that there are some teenagers who might want to read this content might want to learn about

00:40:00.320 that am i endorsing it or condoning it no but do i think it should be banned no i think that's

00:40:05.440 dangerous when we start to censor and it's so interesting to me because you know the right

00:40:10.560 frequently is when you really care about someone you shout it from the mountaintops so on behalf of

00:40:18.000 desjardins insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care

00:40:23.520 about you home and auto insurance personalized to your needs weird i don't remember saying that part

00:40:32.400 visit desjardins.com care and get insurance that's really big on care did i mention that we care

00:40:41.920 is going off about first amendment and free speech and then they go and they try to censor any sort

00:40:48.240 of lgbtqia content because the child because the child might perhaps see it the thing is i don't

00:40:55.120 believe in my heart of hearts that this is being endorsed on a large scale to young children there might

00:41:01.280 be a few bad actors but i don't think that they speak for the lgbtqia community in the same way that

00:41:07.840 i don't think that any given pedophile who is cis heterosexual speaks for the whole cis het community

00:41:13.040 so this this is quite literally the perspective of the right on grooming that you would argue in any way

00:41:18.640 children should be able to access this is grooming but is grooming but having a book in a library

00:41:24.000 is that actually grooming are you is there a library in there or uh you know teachers and adults saying hey

00:41:30.960 check out this book yes and read it and look at all of the imagery and if there is i will tell you

00:41:36.560 right here that those are outliers those are outliers and that is that's the big argument that's the big

00:41:42.640 thing that the right uses to go against queer people is you take these outlier situations and try

00:41:47.920 to apply it to the whole lgbtqia but there's very few not very few people speaking out against the same

00:41:52.720 happens on the right as well they're also not a monolith and i have been that drag queen that has been

00:41:57.600 there for the right and the conservatives and you wouldn't believe the emails that i get from

00:42:02.320 conservative parents republican parents who have gay children and they don't know how to deal with

00:42:08.000 it because the lgbtq community community lgbtq community abandoned them they have demonized all

00:42:14.800 of the right they've abandoned they have i think it's the you know even your own loudon county is not

00:42:19.920 even the right right so loudon county is literally 10 seconds from here and this is where parents came out

00:42:25.280 and said why was this book given to my kids the response condemnation by the lgbtq show me where

00:42:31.120 were these were these books subscribed to children were they given to children if it's something that's

00:42:36.640 in a library you keep pulling a bunch of different stories again i see you keep pulling these things

00:42:40.720 up but again i suppose this is not this is not representative of what is happening everywhere

00:42:45.200 it's very easy to pick and choose these specific instances where that happens and yes i agree with

00:42:51.120 you i don't i don't think that this sort of content should be given to exclusively elementary

00:42:56.880 school children should this teacher be criminally charged for providing instructions on grinder to

00:43:00.400 minors uh i don't know if they should be criminally charged but i think that that person might

00:43:05.360 understand how difficult it is for queer people to meet other queer people in the context of an

00:43:10.480 environment where they are uh ostracized and and told that there's something wrong with these are

00:43:15.840 middle schoolers being given sexually explicit sexually explicit books that discuss scat scissor

00:43:20.240 sisters and how to use but again okay is this is this widespread this particular article that

00:43:25.200 you brought up is this happening in every school district in every county in every state no it's

00:43:30.080 very easy i don't think to whether it's happening everywhere was an argument for whether this is

00:43:33.360 illegal but that's what i'm saying it's very easy to pick and pull out this particular you can do that

00:43:37.840 on any topic right and do it's racism but but similarly i disagree with this i disagree i don't yeah

00:43:43.520 teacher should be arrested to come down to it i don't think that a teacher should be telling

00:43:47.760 middle school students how to use grinder i don't think that or tinder or any other exactly exactly

00:43:53.840 i don't i just i do disagree with that and that's the thing is i i want to make it clear that i am

00:43:58.560 against the grooming and sexualization of children but what i want to make clear is that the overall

00:44:03.760 message of the lgbtqia community and the overall inclusion of lgbtqia history and education

00:44:09.920 in school districts is not focused on sexualizing children and that's what it's been warped into

00:44:15.520 and of course i care about kids i don't want to see kids harmed or sexualized or you know falling

00:44:22.160 victim to pedophiles i don't want to see that whatsoever but the story has been warped that

00:44:27.520 this is an overall an overarching theme of the lgbtqia community and that's what i'm here to defend

00:44:34.560 it's because overwhelmingly the lgbtqia community in terms of its most prominent speakers have been

00:44:40.000 actively defending these books well i would consider myself to be a speaker of the lgbtqia

00:44:45.760 community as the first drag queen ever elected a public office in the united states as the as a

00:44:50.960 trans person running for a seat in the u.s house of representatives i'm not telling kids that they

00:44:55.200 should be reading this material but you are available to them in libraries well again based on

00:45:00.960 age appropriate there's a big difference between a five-year-old reading that and a 17-year-old

00:45:05.600 reading that and you have to agree with that tim but in a middle school library you said it

00:45:08.960 shouldn't be banned well also middle schools and high schools are often merged so sometimes

00:45:12.800 you will have a school where material is available that might be adult content or for older audiences

00:45:19.600 i don't think that we should outlaw and just remove all of these books and burn them this is

00:45:23.920 exactly what happened 100 years ago when there's a difference between playboy and catcher in the rye

00:45:29.440 yeah exactly exactly this book is game catcher in the rye if someone's saying oh this book has

00:45:34.000 offensive ideas in it then sure banning that but this is these are sexually graphic

00:45:38.880 books that are available to grade school kids if if your position is that you think it shouldn't

00:45:43.920 be censored that's quite literally the argument conservatives have that that's that's you would

00:45:48.880 be arguing well shouldn't parents shouldn't parents of five six seven year olds be monitoring what they

00:45:53.920 check out of a library i do think that is up to the parent to decide what is the what's the child

00:45:58.960 allowed to check out if a child who's seven years old picks out one of these books from the library

00:46:03.520 yeah i would absolutely understand that their parent wouldn't want them to read it but if they're

00:46:07.200 17 years old library where kids can access it yeah but it's not pornography i think that you know

00:46:12.080 when you look at at books that that display anatomy and and and teach about what what queer sex is about

00:46:19.600 it's not necessarily pornography the thing is that there is so there's so few resources available to

00:46:28.560 queer people in general and specifically queer youth that when we try to censor and shield uh all

00:46:34.880 youth from this idea of lgbtqia it that is the censorship that is harmful because that's the

00:46:41.280 breeding of children that's the grooming of children to hate people who are lgbtqia and to fear them and

00:46:47.280 to think that they are other and that's the reason i was called a faggot and that's the reason kitty was

00:46:51.040 called a faggot because because kids didn't hear from their parents or their teachers or their peers that

00:46:56.320 it's okay to be queer and so yeah there might be some explicit imagery in that and again i agree

00:47:01.680 that that shouldn't be shown to kids who are in elementary and early middle school or available

00:47:06.720 to them uh or you know or available to them but the thing is maybe shouldn't that be up to the librarian

00:47:12.800 uh hey you're six years old i'm not going to let you check out this book they don't have to check

00:47:16.560 it out to read it they go in the library they can read any book they want so some things should not

00:47:21.280 be available to kids i mean gore pornography sexually explicit activities a lot of these

00:47:26.000 arguments that i hear um from from you and from other people within the community they seem very

00:47:32.560 outdated like like they like people don't have any representation or they don't see depictions

00:47:38.160 of like gay or or trans or anything i mean that's all you see now i mean what i mean that's i don't

00:47:44.000 understand that's because we had to fight for that when i was i graduated high school almost 20 years ago

00:47:48.960 and i didn't see anything like this i didn't have anything like this i didn't i would read about

00:47:52.880 sketch i didn't have anybody to be able to talk to about that and that is what made my peers and

00:47:57.920 the people around me make me think that there was something wrong with me because i was a queer and

00:48:02.400 you know i could i kind of had the opposite i i was raised around um gay people i my grandmother

00:48:08.000 lived in palm springs i was i was there every summer and heavily gay town um she had gay friends and and

00:48:15.520 co-workers um i remember the first time i i was served by this man in a restaurant he had a beard and he had

00:48:22.400 fake eyelashes on and mascara and i knew at that moment that he was gay and i knew i was gay already

00:48:31.680 and when i saw him it absolutely like horrified me because it's the opposite of what you didn't have

00:48:38.400 the actual depictions that i had of homosexuality i thought were negative and i was being shown that

00:48:44.320 what made you what made you think that though what made you think that seeing a man wearing mascara

00:48:49.440 there was something inherently wrong about that i didn't think that had anything to do with the

00:48:52.640 culture that you grew up i i didn't think it was i didn't think it was wrong i thought it was just

00:48:58.000 not attractive i mean it had nothing to do well i don't think that everybody is um dressing themselves

00:49:03.360 and putting on their makeup to make you attractive no i understand that but i also have that opinion i

00:49:07.920 mean i mean when people when people put on their when people put on their drag their outfit

00:49:13.520 you're walking you're not sitting at home doing it you're of course you're going how do you know

00:49:20.400 that well because i'm a drag queen and i don't sit at home but again drag queens are not monoliths

00:49:25.280 the drag community is not a monolith what you may or may not do in drag is not representative of the

00:49:30.160 entire drag community i mean you don't dress like this all the time i don't maybe not all the time but

00:49:34.800 often and even after i do a gig i will spend the day in in this because you know what uh it makes people

00:49:40.960 actually uh recognize that i am a queer person and people will gender me correctly when i'm dressed

00:49:48.080 like this versus when i'm dressed down and that's why a part of my incentive to do it as a drag

00:49:53.120 performer as a trans person you know i i don't mind being in this all day because people are more

00:49:58.480 likely to refer to me in the pronouns that i use and to see me the way that i want to be seen and

00:50:03.600 that's a big part of this argument is queer people just want to be seen and recognized in the way

00:50:08.720 that they see themselves but that's impossible i don't think it's impossible i mean especially

00:50:13.280 when it's fluid i i have a i have a friend she wanted me to talk about this her name is megan

00:50:17.520 she works for the la school district um she's a counselor and they are walking on eggshells every

00:50:24.080 day because they have children who are gender fluid who go back and forth can i ask why you put air

00:50:30.880 quotes around that as if gender fluid people don't exist um well even though it's not your experience

00:50:35.920 because i just personally don't believe in it okay so because uh it's not your experience

00:50:43.200 and you don't believe in it other people well may not be like that well it really really not

00:50:49.520 a strong argument to ask a question then how can you perceive someone the way they want to be seen

00:50:55.200 is every day they're exactly well it's the point that's the thing is that's why people are saying these

00:51:00.160 are my pronouns and then you have folks who are saying i don't do pronouns it's so unnecessary

00:51:04.480 that's the thing is no but that's the gag is people everybody uses pronouns people are just

00:51:10.160 saying these are the pronouns that i use just call me she instead of he call me they instead of of she

00:51:15.840 and it is it really that difficult to respect people and acknowledge people the way that they

00:51:20.080 see themselves and what is the actual inherent harm in that it's also not nothing it's also not

00:51:24.960 difficult to just let it roll off your back well it's actually i will tell you why it is difficult to

00:51:30.240 let it roll off my back when there are over 500 anti-lgbtqia bills moving across the united states

00:51:36.800 on the state level on the federal level i cannot let that roll off my back because there are people

00:51:41.200 who would wish to see my existence eliminated and the same with my community and it started off in oh

00:51:47.440 well we just don't want um trans people in sports and now it's moved to we're banning gender

00:51:52.800 affirming health care across the board we're florida children florida wants to take kids away they

00:51:58.080 always leave out children okay well you want to move into that we can talk about that but they

00:52:02.480 but they always argue that they always you'll see them go on and on and on and on i'm like but

00:52:06.640 they're not talking really did you not know that you were a queer person when you were no no i'm not

00:52:11.600 no because i'm i'm not queer because that's a slur okay see but you won't respect that okay all right

00:52:17.760 well you don't want to be referred to as queer i won't but i have reclaimed the you the use of the word

00:52:22.640 and you can do that just what is you said faggot yeah what is gender how would you define gender

00:52:28.800 gender is how you see and perceive yourself in term in internally in terms of uh a masculinity to

00:52:36.640 femininity spectrum and i don't think that it's binary i don't think it's this or that and uh and

00:52:43.600 people people really want to define things as black and white this or that and the thing is most things

00:52:50.560 in nature do not actually exist on a binary but it's very easy in the way that humans think we

00:52:57.040 want to place things in categorical boxes it's easier for us to um in interpret information when

00:53:03.920 you're either this or that black or white gay or straight trans or cis but the the thing is there

00:53:10.720 is so much more um there's so much more nuance in all of that what about neo-genders

00:53:16.560 when you really care about someone you shout it from the mountaintops so on behalf of desjardins

00:53:24.080 insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you

00:53:32.000 home and auto insurance personalized to your needs weird i don't remember saying that part

00:53:37.840 visit desjardins.com care and get insurance that's really big on care did i mention that we care

00:53:48.400 everyone deserves to be connected that's why cox offers a range of high-speed internet plans that fit

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00:54:06.320 slash acp non-transferable one per household application and eligibility decisions are

00:54:10.720 made by the fcc other restrictions apply i mean if it's a spectrum between masculine and feminine

00:54:17.280 how would you describe if somebody has if somebody has an experience that i'm not familiar with but

00:54:22.720 this is how they see themselves what is the problem in in calling them the the pronoun that they want

00:54:29.760 to be how would someone who is hydro gender affirm their gender i don't what is hydro gender

00:54:34.160 neogender a neogender a non-binary so for me so one example so for instance i'm trans non-binary you

00:54:41.040 know and people often think that non-binary people are different from trans people the thing is that

00:54:47.520 again with everything things exist on a spectrum so the spectrum of cis to trans is um there's a lot of

00:54:56.480 again nuance in between there so people can be either uh trans binary or trans non-binary so somebody

00:55:03.920 who uh you know may have been born male and totally transitions to female and wants to be recognized

00:55:09.600 entirely as female and feels that way and presents them way that themselves that way you know that's

00:55:15.920 that's trans binary somebody who's trans non-binary for me myself i feel somewhere a little bit in in

00:55:22.000 between um if i'm getting you know real and frank i feel somewhere between like the middle but moving

00:55:28.080 closer to the feminine so that's why for me i feel comfortable using gender neutral pronouns they them

00:55:34.960 i don't like being referred to as he him because that that doesn't encompass who i am yeah i may have

00:55:40.880 particular body parts i may have been born in a particular body but that's not how i move through

00:55:46.400 the world that's not how i see myself and that's not how i want others to see myself and i don't see what

00:55:50.880 what the big issue is in acknowledging people as they come to you and that's that's part that's

00:55:57.200 liberty that's freedom see i i guess my my deal is i grew up i i'm i look like a very masculine person

00:56:05.920 which i deliberately did for this show um well i mean i just this is my everyday wear honestly but

00:56:12.560 i'm a pretty feminine guy i mean and i mean and i was misgendered most of my life through my voice

00:56:19.360 over the telephone drive-throughs up in and and you know what i laughed at it i just okay it becomes

00:56:26.080 such a serious thing now and i'm like oh i don't i just don't understand the importance of it i don't

00:56:32.800 get it so how do i know at me being a feminine guy how do i know that i'm not trans well that's the

00:56:40.000 thing is you may or may not know and that's the thing is if you don't think you're trans you're probably

00:56:44.720 not uh if trans people if folks who are well am i trans i'm not saying all of them are but if you're

00:56:51.440 exploring that that idea there is a chance that you very likely might be trans and here's the thing i

00:56:57.920 also endured the same thing as you did when i was growing up uh constantly called a girl um a lady

00:57:04.400 she uh you know misgendered on the phone when i was still identifying as a boy and it's so interesting

00:57:10.720 to me that as a youth as a child i was characterized as oh you're a girl you're not a boy you're a girl

00:57:18.160 and now as an adult who somebody who has come into my my own and realized who i am and how i see myself

00:57:25.680 and how i see the world and how i want the world to see and interact with me it's so funny that those

00:57:30.960 same people are you're a man you're a man and it just seems like it's done with this intent to other

00:57:36.400 and to ostracize and i think there's just a lot of um misunderstanding and hatred in there and

00:57:41.440 you know i i think that you know it's clear that we disagree on a number of issues but i think that

00:57:46.160 we've also probably experienced the same kind of um bullying that a lot of queer kids endure and that

00:57:52.240 goes back to my argument about why i think that lgbtqia education in schools is important because

00:57:57.760 when you familiarize people with um circumstances that are very real and all over the world

00:58:03.920 you you show them that okay to be different is not necessarily to be bad and that's what i i hope

00:58:11.600 to portray in this conversation i again i want to reiterate i am entirely opposed to the sexualization

00:58:18.640 of children i'm entirely opposed to pedophiles in grooming but i think that what folks have portrayed

00:58:24.080 the overall lgbtqia community as is a community that promotes that and it's simply false so i wanted to

00:58:31.360 ask uh you referred to it as gender affirming care the the reason i brought up hydrogender and neo and

00:58:37.840 neogenders is i'm not quite sure how there could be a surgery or medical practice to affirm a gender

00:58:42.560 that is conceptual or abstract well and that's the thing is it doesn't you don't necessarily have to

00:58:47.680 have a surgery to to be transgender i think that there's this idea that uh if you are a transgender

00:58:54.080 person you have to go through hrt and you have to have surgeries and you have to totally um you know

00:59:00.240 to transform but that's also that's that's by that's somebody who is trans binary again there

00:59:04.880 are so many people who again identify as gender queer gender fluid non-binary who are in the middle

00:59:10.560 who you know it's hard to pinpoint what our our our gender is and there might not be words for it and

00:59:17.920 that's why you know the word non-binary it might seem very new to people even though that word is new

00:59:22.880 the concept and the idea of it is actually it's it's ages old and so so you think as adults we're

00:59:29.600 sitting here having this complicated conversation and we're trying to figure it all out and then

00:59:33.280 it makes me wonder well when i was six five six seven years old how would i include myself in

00:59:38.960 this conversation i mean if as adults we don't understand well i also don't i don't think that

00:59:43.200 there's you know six or seven year olds listening to this program maybe there are i don't know if there

00:59:47.040 are are you going to say that they should not listen to this program often say i'm not we do try to

00:59:51.680 keep uh shows like yeah exactly i'm not talking about that's the same same thing with our drag shows you

00:59:56.560 you know we when i do a nightclub show like i'm doing a nightclub show with the intent that

01:00:01.840 it's going to be an adult audience when you do a show like a drag brunch a place where they they

01:00:06.400 actually might allow children i always think about that in terms of how i'm going to perform so i think

01:00:11.600 about the context of where i'm going to be performing as a performer and that's my that's me as a

01:00:16.560 performer that's not me and i wanted and i wanted to sharpen drag queens to have that same attitude

01:00:21.760 i have to be conscious of what i'm doing to the audience of the message i'm portraying and you have

01:00:26.880 to be ready for anything and it should be age appropriate so you guys have uh uh i'm sorry

01:00:32.720 both of you have given your experience on growing up uh i'll tell you mine because i have a question

01:00:37.920 when i was uh younger my family opened and i think we're the same age tim what year were you born 86

01:00:42.880 same oh 86 37 86 so when i was little my mom opened a coffee shop on halstead and waveland in chicago

01:00:49.440 i don't know if you're familiar with the area i lived in boystown for many years uh when i was

01:00:54.560 growing up i met a lot of people who were lgbt and there were uh drag performers and stuff um i worked

01:01:03.120 at this coffee shop so naturally you'd see gay men and lesbian women and bi people and they'd be

01:01:07.760 talking about these things but uh for the most part i was watching ghostbusters cartoons or playing

01:01:12.080 pokemon when the pride events the pride parades happened my mom would not let me go outside

01:01:18.240 because adult men were naked and doing sexual behaviors in the street adult women were doing

01:01:23.360 the same thing people were engaging in simulated sex acts on on parade floats and that was confusing

01:01:29.200 to me i think i was like 10 years old and i'm like how come you keep saying it's about love but then

01:01:34.160 you tell me i can't go outside because they're having sex when i would walk down the street what would

01:01:38.480 i see i'm a little kid i'm i'm 10 i'm going to 7-eleven to buy a you know a slurpee and in the

01:01:44.000 roscoe and halstead is that where it is yeah and um when i see in the window of a clothing store

01:01:51.680 anatomically correct mannequins receiving blowjobs like not overtly like a mannequin up to the groin of

01:01:58.800 an anatomically correct mannequin they had uh uh genital macaroni and cheese these things are on display in

01:02:05.120 the windows so naturally i said this is not about love they're lying to me i'm a little kid i was i

01:02:10.800 was between the ages of 10 and 11 which is going on and as soon as the first parade comes around

01:02:15.520 and i'm told i'm not allowed to go outside and there are adult activities going on i immediately was

01:02:22.160 like they lied to me it's not about love that's not true you know what though i so i hear where

01:02:27.120 you're coming from with that with that story and i agree with you like i think that that's probably

01:02:33.040 that's not age appropriate for young children but but the thing is but to say but to say that

01:02:38.080 um only queer people have shops that are explicitly sex shops i think is also a false narrative but

01:02:44.800 that's not what i'm saying obvious obviously there are strip clubs i know exactly what you're talking

01:02:49.040 about you're talking about beatniks right on the corner of roscoe and halstead right across from that

01:02:52.960 7-eleven and if you were to actually go into that store there's actually okay you might see that but

01:02:59.600 also what you see inside is not necessarily sexually explicit yeah you might see some pasta

01:03:04.960 in the shape of a penis but also are you not going to see that same kind of thing in a bachelorette

01:03:09.840 party or when they're going out or spencers and that's the thing is that that is adult content

01:03:14.960 that's adult content i don't think that children belong in that atmosphere and i do think again age

01:03:19.520 appropriate um recognition and exposure i think is really important but that that brings me to the

01:03:25.680 issue of these these pride events right so in florida there was a town that banned their pride

01:03:29.760 event after florida said you can't have children at sexually explicit shows the corporate press the

01:03:35.360 narrative from many on the left were saying oh no now pride is being canceled when the issue at hand

01:03:40.960 was don't have sexual you know these these kids be exposed to this stuff every every pride i've ever

01:03:46.800 been to in my life has been sexually explicit in what i would describe as overtly illegal ways

01:03:51.840 without any law enforcement well i don't know what pride events you're being taken to los angeles

01:03:56.240 chicago well yeah but exactly but also just a few weeks ago i mentioned that i did drag queen story

01:04:01.120 hour at trans pride which was at the lgbt center it was an entirely family friendly event there was

01:04:07.360 there was no kink there there were no people walking around in you know just jock straps or less

01:04:14.320 and i agree i don't think kids should be exposed to that but i think that i don't think that those

01:04:19.680 kinds of events should be banned resultingly i think i think in that instance parents should say

01:04:25.680 i don't want to bring my kid to this event because i know that's going to occur and i don't think that

01:04:29.680 the event should not occur because of the fact that there may be a child there and that's the thing is

01:04:34.800 that's why even that's when i go back to saying when i do drag shows i specifically make sure that

01:04:41.680 i'm performing something that is age appropriate if i think there's even the slightest chance that there

01:04:46.720 might be a child there and and that's the thing is at what point do we say well it should be up to

01:04:53.280 the parents to say you can't go there versus this event should not occur at all i mean but but these

01:04:58.160 things aren't legally allowed in public right if if a man were to uh uh let's say put on bdsm gear and

01:05:04.800 another man thrust into him while spanking him with whips like we saw in west hollywood if he did that

01:05:09.680 anywhere at any time that's that's an outright arrest but is it though yes yeah i mean unless of course

01:05:16.400 police don't want to enforce these things so to be fair actually when there was that event where it

01:05:20.880 said it's not going to lick itself and there were kids there the police were like we're not going to

01:05:24.720 get involved in this at all because they're like well it's a phrase is it inappropriate i think it's

01:05:29.760 absolutely inappropriate and again that's where i'm saying parents do not bring your kids to these

01:05:34.160 events if you know they're going to there's going to be kink at pride but i don't think we should

01:05:37.680 out like what about in public so you think there should be sex acts in yeah well but what i'm saying

01:05:43.040 is this is specifically a pride event it's not as if uh there is this kink community you know bdsm

01:05:49.840 community moving about town doing these explicit acts on you know main street america these are

01:05:56.320 events that are specifically pride related and usually in very specific areas of pride and again i don't

01:06:01.920 think that you should bring kids to pride if you know that these things are going to be happening but

01:06:06.400 there are also many yeah i knew you were i here's the thing i i've seen these images and i've seen

01:06:11.520 where are the complaints this is in public across the street from wendy's of course there are children

01:06:15.600 there that you can see children in the video or young young people at the very least and this is

01:06:19.680 just one example of course i can keep bringing up more and more and more of course of course but

01:06:23.680 also are there not are there not cis heterosexual nudists that move about life absolutely throughout

01:06:28.160 the u.s and and they oh and so again they're in specific areas right so the naked bike rides for

01:06:32.880 example we've also been critical of why is it there is why are we i just i for me listen i

01:06:38.240 i again i'm gonna reiterate we should not be sexualizing children but i don't think that the

01:06:43.040 human body is inherently sexual unless we sexualize it and tell children this is sexual this is sexual

01:06:49.680 you should be turned on by this which is it's that's not what anybody drag queens they're doing

01:06:54.480 it too who are these drag queens can you name some names you don't i can name a million drag queens

01:07:00.400 who go on stage who sexualize their theme their fake female body okay but yes again this is most

01:07:07.440 often usually normally 95 of the time happening in the context of a nightclub not at drag queen

01:07:14.400 story hour but there was a filled over like you said it has it has spilled yes but also that's what

01:07:19.920 we're talking about well exactly but what i'm also saying is that the same thing happens with

01:07:24.400 cis heterosexual right we agree with you i agree with you i completely agree and that's what i'm saying

01:07:29.760 i'm talking about my community to this i'm talking about my community but i'm saying we shouldn't we

01:07:34.000 shouldn't uh ban all drag because there's a chance that no one's banning drag sexual no one well

01:07:39.760 actually what do you mean nobody's banning where you're not where is drag band uh have you not heard

01:07:44.400 about what's happening in tennessee no why don't you tell me exactly what's happening so basically they

01:07:48.720 want to ban you know they want to ban drag performances and make it specifically 21 and up as

01:07:54.880 if it is okay so strip club well you mean ban it for kids so are you saying that you left the word

01:08:02.720 kids okay but are you saying that a 20 year old is um are you saying a 20 year old is a child no

01:08:10.960 when you really care about someone you shout it from the mountaintops so on behalf of desjardins

01:08:16.560 insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you

01:08:22.000 care about you home and auto insurance personalized to your needs weird i don't remember saying that

01:08:29.520 part visit desjardins.com care and get insurance that's really big on care did i mention that we

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01:08:58.960 that's b-o-b at advertise cast as in podcast.com i'm not saying that no i i but i'm just saying i'm

01:09:07.120 not saying that they shouldn't be there when there are over a half right now right in california

01:09:12.720 moving across the u.s that is a problem because what what the conservative right is trying to do is

01:09:19.040 they are trying they're not a monolith they're trying to use these exactly we're not a monolith

01:09:23.520 but no but many people many republicans on the conservative right are actively trying to ban

01:09:30.480 anything lgbtqia related in all around for many democrats well i gotta say it's well and democrats

01:09:36.480 but conservative democrats but it's because the lgbtq community are the ones who have included this

01:09:42.560 they're telling us who they are and i'm sitting here saying no we're not are you saying you only

01:09:46.720 see this in the lgbtq realm it's really easy to pull this out you can pull this clip up on youtube

01:09:52.640 when this was a family christmas show with fake breasts and children were were being presented

01:09:57.200 simulated sex acts the lgbtq community and this was defended it and said that's exactly what they

01:10:01.840 were about now don't say that the lgbtq community individuals don't say the lgbtq community

01:10:06.880 defended that because i am part of the lgbtq community i didn't personally defend that so

01:10:12.480 don't tell me that i am endorsing this because i'm a member of the lgbtq individuals defended it

01:10:17.280 okay you profiled individuals high high profile personalities on the left and the lgbtq community

01:10:22.320 have overly defend us and i'll give you the example again two weeks ago when we had a prominent

01:10:26.560 left personality on the show they actually said this should not be removed from grade schools and

01:10:31.920 it's a good book for kids well shouldn't that show you that we are not a monolith as a community

01:10:36.000 but it shows you why it shows you that there are some people that perhaps believe that and

01:10:40.160 there's many that don't so do not categorize us as all being the same and if if somebody comes out

01:10:44.560 and says hey this is not appropriate we shouldn't allow this and prominent left personalities tv shows

01:10:49.680 and pundits all rushed to the fence it gets the lines are blurred it gets it becomes one thing and

01:10:55.360 that's what pisses me off is because this show is a professional production that was it's a christmas

01:11:01.920 show okay and and in this particular picture this person reveals their breasts and they're

01:11:08.080 simulated it brings me back to my beginning point yeah whose fault is it that we're sexualizing breasts

01:11:13.040 who the fuck cares if you see a drag is also the thrusting into the a drag queen doing it on stage

01:11:19.120 she's she's sexualizing the breath it's she made it naughty right i mean that's they make the breasts

01:11:24.400 naughty i mean that's what she did i mean the the context of this is at what point do we put the

01:11:28.960 responsibility on parents not to bring these children to events like this and that's where

01:11:33.280 i've turned my focus hey uh yeah drag is appropriate again in many different contexts and it can be

01:11:39.760 appropriate in the context of children like drag queen story hour when you go to drag queen story

01:11:44.080 hour it's not this and you might be able to pull up clips where you see oh well actually this did happen

01:11:49.280 a few times yeah i'm sure it has but again that's not that's not depicting the entire

01:11:54.080 lgbtq community so we'll clarify this there are certainly a lot of conservatives more uh religious

01:12:00.000 and staunch conservatives who would say any of it all of it banned right but the bigger issue is that

01:12:04.960 when you see something like this there was the incident in the uk where the individual wore the

01:12:09.520 rainbow monkey costume with the genitals and things like that when they say this is what drag is

01:12:15.440 there is a a semantic difference right so often what you'll see on the left uh or among lgbtq individuals

01:12:22.400 they'll say a man dressing like a woman is drag they'll show uh mrs doubtfire for example being an

01:12:27.440 example uh i don't think that's what conservatives are talking about i don't think any conservatives

01:12:31.920 are saying like no one should watch mrs doubtfire you see a play where a man is in the role of but

01:12:36.400 that's the thing actually tim you we've got to step back a second because there are states that are

01:12:41.600 wanting to disallow things like mrs doubtfire any sort of idea of drag the idea of dressing as the

01:12:49.520 opposite gender that you were assigned at birth that is actually being criminalized and that is where

01:12:54.000 lgbtqia people have a big problem and again it goes back to this idea that tim have you ever had in any

01:12:59.840 single year over 500 bills specifically targeted against your your identity as a human being probably

01:13:06.960 not maybe you have but as somebody who is queer and i've seen it increase year after year after year

01:13:13.600 they're trying to make this a thing that it is not and the folks that are um you know putting

01:13:20.480 forth these bills the folks that are being massively critical of this kind of thing are the same people

01:13:25.840 who back in the 1970s said we should not allow gay marriage because well what's it going to lead to

01:13:31.440 next we should not allow gay marriage because they're coming for your children um it's this it's

01:13:36.080 it's this he's gonna pull that up it's this slippery slope the thing is it's a slippery slope argument

01:13:41.200 it's a slippery slope argument and and you know bother so so so but let's address this there's a

01:13:47.400 viral meme it says what will happen if gay marriage is legalized first gay people will get married a

01:13:52.680 third world war world war will break out various plagues schools begin teaching kids how to have gay

01:13:57.200 sex the terrorists will win the joke is that these things are happening but the one thing i will focus

01:14:01.680 on i mean maybe a third world war there's covid but uh yeah this book is gay was given to children

01:14:06.960 and there are there are many instances where books like genderqueer and florida's addressed this and

01:14:12.020 it's happened in hundreds of schools across the country kids are being taught it's not even i think

01:14:16.880 gay sex is is is not even the right way to to address it it's not you're right these books are uh

01:14:23.240 beyond it so i think it is a fair point uh brought up earlier that scat is not exclusive to the lgbt

01:14:28.480 community i can't believe i'm talking about this but uh there's a lot of things in this book that

01:14:33.160 are explicitly just generally kink that children should not be exposed to that are being taught in

01:14:38.020 schools under the premise it is lgbt education okay but that's the thing is and that's where i i do

01:14:44.360 agree with you i don't think that that's i don't think that should be taught as lgbtqia education

01:14:49.120 when we talk about what is actually being taught as lgbtqia education in in schools in states that

01:14:56.240 specifically require so for instance i live in california lgbtqia education in history is a state

01:15:02.620 requirement uh and again it's all age appropriate the thing is kids are i do think that sex education

01:15:10.500 should be taught to children and it needs to be inclusive of lgbtqia people because i received sex

01:15:16.300 education when i was in middle school high school but it actually didn't really include anything about

01:15:21.940 the kind of person that i am and my sort of like what kind of sex eddie so basically um you know

01:15:28.240 learning about safe sex learning about um learning about safe sex learning about um the risks involved

01:15:34.660 in it and the big one of the big reasons that sex education is so important is to empower children

01:15:40.600 to know what is right and wrong for themselves and to know and when i say that what i mean is

01:15:45.640 recognizing when you actually see abuse and one of the reasons that you see so many young children

01:15:50.740 uh being abused sexually uh by non-lgbtqia people is because they actually don't have any sort of

01:15:58.080 education or knowledge to know that that is wrong and that's part of the reason why nations like uh

01:16:03.540 you know places like the netherlands they have comprehensive sex education from kindergarten to

01:16:08.320 12th grade that is again age appropriate and folks who are uh from there they're no more likely

01:16:15.220 to engage in sex earlier than anybody else across the world especially when you compare to the usa

01:16:21.220 but they are much more likely to make informed decisions about how and when they want to engage

01:16:27.260 in sexual activity how and when they want to say yes or no uh use protection and make sure that they

01:16:33.480 are doing it safely i think it would be so naive to say that teenagers aren't having sex you know

01:16:38.900 teenagers have sex and i agree that teenagers should not be having sex with adults but recognizing

01:16:45.860 that difference and realizing that that's something wrong that something is wrong in that is something

01:16:51.100 that is taught in sex education and it needs to be inclusive of lgbtqia here's here's the hard

01:16:56.160 moralistic separation conservatives that argue teenagers should not have sex at all period well

01:17:00.320 yeah and that's the thing and that's been something that's been taught uh since uh the time of

01:17:04.660 reagan billions of dollars billions of dollars have been put into sex education uh from the 80s sorry

01:17:11.460 yes oh closer okay billions of dollars have been put into sex education in a way that has been

01:17:18.320 explicitly said explicitly said you have to you have to do this from an abstinence only approach and it's

01:17:24.840 so unrealistic telling teenagers they can't do anything of course they're going to rebel and then when

01:17:30.940 they're raging with you know hormones and coming into themselves of course they're going to be

01:17:34.800 engaging in things like that so to to take an abstinence only approach is actually it's negligent

01:17:41.000 and it's irresponsible and that's exactly what causes high rates of stis and teen pregnancies when you

01:17:48.320 start to tell people uh about sexuality again in a way that is age appropriate that is um you know

01:17:55.840 based on this idea that is anchored by love and relationships rather than just explicit hardcore

01:18:01.840 sex it's easier for children to talk to adults about that to trusted adults to parents and so

01:18:08.220 that's the thing is that in the netherlands they ended up you know nine out of ten uh you know folks

01:18:14.020 who are teenagers who engage in that sort of behavior do it in a way that is safe and informed

01:18:18.980 because they've received that education versus in the united states where again since the 80s since

01:18:23.780 you know uh reaganomics it has been abstinence only and that is not an effective or accurate

01:18:30.080 way to teach people about sex and it actually makes people shameful about sex you know we're all sexual

01:18:36.120 beings and that's something that you grow into as an adult and i think that it's important to teach kids

01:18:41.920 to be informed about that and to to make appropriate decisions for themselves that are consensual

01:18:48.000 you know based on based on those kinds of things um do you think that schools should be concealing

01:18:54.940 the um gender and names i do and i'll tell you exactly why of the kids so they're double they're

01:19:02.400 living double lives i think they're no they're not living double lives the kids are actually uh they

01:19:07.180 feel safe enough to tell the people who are in their school environment who they are because they

01:19:12.780 don't feel safe at home if a child felt safe enough to come out to their parents they would the reason

01:19:17.460 that a child would come out to teachers or peers or a counselor at school and not to their parents

01:19:23.580 is very likely because they're afraid of the consequences of actually revealing that to their

01:19:27.920 parents so if they if they live in an abusive home should they be removed from it well it also i think

01:19:32.800 uh abusive home so i think that uh yeah i think yeah i think generally yes if children are in

01:19:39.080 abusive homes they should be removed so if they cannot affirm their gender at home or their sexuality

01:19:44.020 yes but i also think this is i think it's also important to note that this is not just a singular

01:19:49.040 conversation that you know eight-year-olds are having with their parents these are you know these

01:19:54.120 are going to be 14 15 16 17 year olds who are coming into their identity they're coming into the

01:19:59.420 world they're almost at that point where they're almost adults they're starting to realize who they

01:20:03.600 are they're starting to develop autonomy you know teenagers they're autonomous by the time they're

01:20:08.620 hitting puberty and they're starting to realize who they are in the context of the rest of the world

01:20:13.020 and when they live in a home that doesn't recognize or affirm them that can be really

01:20:17.780 detrimental to lgbtqia health and that's why uh folks that are are trans who are teenagers that's

01:20:24.300 why i know you've mentioned this on your other shows that you know there are very high rates of

01:20:28.860 suicide for lgbtqia people specifically trans people who are are teenagers and they're living in

01:20:35.580 this world where they're they're not being seen or recognized by anybody around them not not their

01:20:40.800 parents not their their teachers etc but that's actually our an argument against affirmation or

01:20:47.160 concealing from the parents so the the predominant studies that we have show that desistance rates

01:20:53.160 are between i think it's 65 and like 96 percent or something like that for trans uh gender dysphoric

01:20:59.480 youth if they if there is no intervention the the likelihood is greater than chance that a a child who

01:21:06.460 is gender dysphoric will desist and go on to likely just be a gay adult if the argument is that trans

01:21:13.780 uh individuals that it also goes back to what's inherently wrong about being a transgender adult

01:21:18.280 tim high suicide rate now if if you just said that and yeah but that's it's suicide in the context of

01:21:25.420 not being acknowledged or seen as you are the thing is we are all individuals and that's liberty and

01:21:30.960 freedom is this is exactly the point i'm making if desistance rates tend to be between let's just

01:21:37.860 say 60 and 90 it's higher than that i think it's like 65 the fact of the matter is detransition

01:21:41.820 rates i know you existence not detransition okay this means you have a 10 year old child who is

01:21:46.880 experiencing dysphoria the the study when you really care about someone you shouted from the

01:21:53.640 mountaintops so on behalf of desjardins insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our

01:21:59.460 clients that we really care about you care about you home and auto insurance personalized to your

01:22:06.280 needs weird i don't remember saying that part visit desjardins.com slash care and get insurance

01:22:12.960 that's really big on care did i mention that we care it's time to gear up for the school year at

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01:22:46.980 larry outlets highway 99 exit cart mill is and we've gone over these numerous episodes uh show that

01:22:53.280 if left alone to just go through puberty the child will likely end up just being a gay adult

01:22:58.280 and not trans so it solves the issue but so it actually doesn't though this means that overwhelmingly

01:23:04.340 there is a greater circumstance a greater chance they will be accepted as they are and as they want

01:23:10.520 to be whereas if they are given an intervention and uh uh hormones or puberty blockers they will end

01:23:17.660 up living a life where the world does not recognize them increasing their likelihood of suicide

01:23:21.360 yeah but is that actually on the trans person or is that on the uh the world that we live in and

01:23:26.320 you can't change you can't force yeah well that's what i'm saying we're not trying to force people

01:23:30.560 the reason i even came on this show is to i wanted to provide an opinion and an experience from my own

01:23:36.660 point of view and i'm not singular in my experience you know you might be able to look on the internet

01:23:41.680 and see all these studies and statistics but you don't have experience as a transgender person what

01:23:46.120 it's like to go through the world as a transgender person i do my community does my friends do and

01:23:52.080 we see using the data but that's the thing no okay but data can also be you can pick and choose data

01:23:57.240 the thing is most detransition and i know we weren't talking about that but detransition is actually

01:24:02.520 very rare and the thing is you know with when it comes to puberty blockers the reason that puberty

01:24:07.540 blockers are prescribed is to actually um give the the person in question the family the doctors in

01:24:15.460 uh substantive time to actually figure this out and to give the child in question uh time to think is

01:24:23.380 this actually for me or is it not and you know i've seen so many arguments against puberty blockers

01:24:29.780 especially from groups like um gays against groomers and libs of tiktok and the thing is that puberty

01:24:37.600 blockers are not just specifically prescribed to transgender teenagers they are prescribed to uh

01:24:44.100 teenagers who are cisgender who are experiencing precocious puberty these have been prescribed since

01:24:48.820 the early 1990s there's been at this point decades of research that they are they are not harmful

01:24:54.580 they're reversible there may be some bone density loss i know that's the big argument

01:24:59.540 against but this can be uh you know that can be supplemented with you know vitamin d and and you

01:25:06.860 know there's there's treatments to to fix that but i don't think that that particular one small risk

01:25:12.040 is a reason to say we shouldn't allow children to do that and the thing is puberty blockers what

01:25:16.220 they actually do is again they are blocking puberty from happening so that that children and parents

01:25:23.260 and doctors can have a legitimate informed and ongoing conversation i think there's this myth going around

01:25:29.280 that parents are just saying well i want you to be trans i'm taking you into a gender clinic and

01:25:34.560 we're going to get you on hormones today and that's not how it works and the fact of the matter is that

01:25:39.580 most uh most people who end up going on hormone blockers they'll do that for a few years if you

01:25:44.960 decide that you don't want to actually transition you don't have to but what it's actually doing is

01:25:49.900 it's actually giving uh teenagers and parents and doctors time to see if this is something that is

01:25:55.800 temporary or is is this an ongoing thing where yeah this person actually is experiencing the level

01:26:01.860 of gender dysphoria where they actually want to transition and make it a permanent thing rather

01:26:07.700 than just a trend and there's this idea of like this social contagion which it's just it's so false

01:26:13.200 it's so you don't oh go ahead well they've they've seen that i mean i was asked to speak in chico

01:26:18.440 california by a woman's group because they said you know it has exploded there like why did it explode

01:26:26.720 and there is this belief that it's a social contagion because you get one group of friends

01:26:31.080 and you get a couple of the people who identify as trans eventually they're all jumping on board

01:26:35.940 exactly and that's why doing puberty blockers that's not permanent that is it's basically it's

01:26:41.440 delaying puberty so that the individual the parents and the doctors uh all together can formulate

01:26:47.780 this opinion about whether or not this is something that is actually beneficial and ongoing for the

01:26:53.260 individual in question so this idea that parents are just taking you know 13 year olds in and putting

01:26:59.420 them on hrt in the same day it's it's a false narrative and while there may be you know maybe one

01:27:05.360 or two or obviously one or two is like but if there's a few instances where that's happening

01:27:10.380 again people who are opposed to the idea of people transitioning in general they're going to take this

01:27:16.180 one instance and say well this is what all teenagers are doing this is what all parents

01:27:20.380 are doing that with racism too they say all white people are actually when they could point out

01:27:24.200 little things i mean don't don't doesn't every instant matter i mean we all of it matters right

01:27:30.060 when uh we had uh destiny on i think i'll try and pull them up i think the numbers were in terms of

01:27:35.640 surgery among uh minors it was in over the past few years like a few thousand but when it comes to

01:27:42.700 hormone replacement therapy in the past four years i think it was around 50 000 so it is happening to

01:27:47.620 a lot of uh but again tim again tim this is not something that is happening to very young children

01:27:53.580 and when it's that's the thing that's when you say children it's very easy to think oh seven eight

01:27:58.400 year olds the thing is puberty blockers are not prescribed to children who have not yet reached

01:28:03.380 puberty and then when they go into taking puberty blockers they're on puberty blockers so that they

01:28:09.940 can decide along with their family along with their doctors if hrt or something else is appropriate

01:28:15.180 down the line so while there are instances of um teenagers who are 16 17 18 you know perhaps getting

01:28:23.680 top surgery or um going on hrt this is not the overwhelming majority and that's the reason that

01:28:29.580 puberty blockers are actually a great option for for kids who are thinking that they are trans and if

01:28:36.380 you're experiencing that level of gender dysphoria again i'm not saying all kids should go on this but

01:28:41.780 if you are a child who is experiencing extreme gender dysphoria you've expressed this to your family

01:28:47.080 your school your doctor uh it's worth a conversation because the thing is that there are trans adults

01:28:53.920 and trans adults many times often were trans youth and were ignored and told that they didn't know what

01:29:00.200 the hell they were talking about so this is uh from reuters diagnoses of use with gender dysphoria

01:29:05.680 surge 2017 it was 15 000 2018 18 2019 it was 21 000 by 2021 it's now 42 000 nearly doubling from the

01:29:13.720 previous year and when it when they show you at least a few of the states you can see california

01:29:17.760 saw a massive spike from 2016 to 2020 in other states like massachusetts and michigan there they've

01:29:23.320 all seen growth but not uh not nearly as pronounced as california though new york pennsylvania and

01:29:29.160 washington have yeah do you want to hear my explanation of that so i my explanation of that is

01:29:35.480 because of the fact that there are states california is a state that requires lgbtqia education in

01:29:40.960 history when you don't give kids the language or the understanding to realize that there are other

01:29:46.980 kinds of people uh so for instance um you know i came out as transgender uh in my 20s but a big part

01:29:54.260 of that reason was that sort of language and that sort of understanding was never taught to me when i was

01:29:59.140 younger i've always been the way that i have been but it wasn't until a little bit later on that i really

01:30:04.400 had that understanding and that language to sort of describe who i am and what my experience is like

01:30:09.660 and so the reason that so many uh folks want to ban lgbtqia education is because they don't want kids

01:30:16.500 to realize that actually you might be trans or non-binary and again it it goes back to this question

01:30:21.960 of what is inherently wrong about being trans or non-binary so a correction uh it wasn't 50 000 or

01:30:28.400 whatever that were receiving hormones it was they found 121 882 children ages 6 to 17 i understand

01:30:35.300 there's a distinction between like a 16 17 year old and a six year old but they say we're diagnosed

01:30:39.000 with gender dysphoria and in terms of puberty blockers it's about uh 600 in 2017 escalating to

01:30:45.160 in 2021 1390 yeah so again my point is that i'm sorry i'm sorry i i was wrong that's puberty blockers

01:30:52.860 and then hormone therapy was about 1 900 in 2017 growing to 4 231 in 2021 sorry okay so again my

01:31:01.880 point is that uh yeah when you are growing up and you're learning about the world and you don't

01:31:07.060 realize that this that there is language and experience to match what what is going on with

01:31:12.460 your internal self then again you're just going to think there is something wrong with you and when

01:31:16.560 you live in a state like california that requires lgbtqia education you're going to have a much

01:31:21.460 different experience than a place like alabama or a particular state that wants to outlaw lgbtqia

01:31:28.680 education entirely there's this idea that if you shield people from lgbtqia knowledge that they will

01:31:34.820 not become lgbtqia but there is an in there's something inherent about being lgbtqia and what i'm

01:31:41.160 saying is again nurture children and let them let children figure out who they are on their own

01:31:46.200 and that's why this kind of education is important because it shows that uh what you might be feeling

01:31:53.180 might not be there's nothing wrong with that and the thing is there's children are not being turned

01:31:58.900 trans you can't just make somebody be trans i will tell you that as somebody who has grown up i initially

01:32:05.740 came out as gay and i now identify as trans i will tell you i wanted nothing more in the world

01:32:11.660 to be cis heterosexual growing up because i saw the way that the world treats people like me

01:32:16.800 there's no reason that people want to to be ostracized and the thing is when you give people

01:32:22.500 the tools and the knowledge in the community to know that oh you're actually you're wonderful just

01:32:28.400 the way you are uh that's actually very that's a great thing when i say just the way you are

01:32:33.740 you know there's something inherent about being transgender so while um in some instances the

01:32:40.200 outside not might not match what the inside is feeling for people that's something that i do

01:32:45.500 think is appropriate for for kids to know about like why are we again it begs the question why are

01:32:51.860 we shielding kids from lgbtqia people the the suggestion there the suggestion there is that there's

01:32:59.560 something wrong with being lgbtqia i don't think they're being shielded i i don't understand how people

01:33:04.940 in 2023 you when you say you when you say you when you know don't say gay laws like i know that

01:33:10.560 but that's don't say gay i know that's like uh that's false that that bill actually banned straight

01:33:14.580 conversations as well as gay conversations right teachers were barred from talking about any

01:33:18.660 heterosexual relationship all the same yeah but also there's i just uh so i mean i just recall growing

01:33:24.920 up in a world where every sort of content that i was viewing was viewed through a cis heteronormative

01:33:31.560 lens whether or not it was sexually explicit in most cases it wasn't and that's what we're saying

01:33:36.440 is that you can introduce children to an lgbtqia lens without being without it being sexually explicit

01:33:42.780 and without saying you must be lgbtqia the fact of the matter is that lgbtqia youth deserve the same

01:33:50.140 benefits that cis heteronormative youth receive when they receive uh sex education in school and very

01:33:57.180 very few states require lgbtqia sex education california is one of only a handful of of those

01:34:03.680 that do my sex education in school which is i'm what 20 years at least not 20 years but over 10

01:34:09.840 years older than you guys was in california born and raised california went to california schools my

01:34:13.920 whole life our sex education was under health a health education and it was about reproduction

01:34:21.160 so we and we learned about masturbation and things like that they would separate oh really wasn't that

01:34:26.460 pornography um we talk about self-pleasure i don't know whenever so what's the difference between

01:34:32.120 that and take the shame out of it you know because exactly that's the thing and that's what i'm that's

01:34:37.220 my argument for lgbtqia inclusion is that take the shame out of being lgbtqia there's nothing wrong

01:34:44.260 with it and i i never felt shamed by the education system i felt it from the students themselves i knew

01:34:51.440 where do you think they learned that well at well at the the homes that you think are headed

01:34:56.640 from the homes of the adults who should make from the homes of people who didn't receive that kind

01:35:00.400 of but you but you said also the adults are the ones responsible for their children and they should

01:35:04.460 take responsibility for it and they could raise them any way they want but that's what i'm but

01:35:08.280 that's also my arguments for my argument for you know parent inclusion is if you don't want your

01:35:13.060 kid checking this book out don't let your kid check that book out you don't want your kid

01:35:16.140 pride don't bring your kids to pride you don't want your kid a drag queen story hour don't take

01:35:19.720 your kid to drag well but don't tell every other student in the student student body that they

01:35:24.560 can't learn about well this is an excellent argument for school choice you also said schools should not

01:35:29.160 be telling the people when you really care about someone you shout it from the mountaintops so on

01:35:35.380 behalf of desjardins insurance i'm standing 20 000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we

01:35:40.640 really care about you home and auto insurance personalized to your needs weird i don't remember

01:35:48.780 saying that part visit desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care

01:35:55.180 did i mention that we care

01:35:57.460 parents what's going on at all no i didn't say that whatsoever what i said was that if you have

01:36:04.340 a student who is afraid to come out to their parents because they are uh thinking that they might

01:36:09.900 be transgender and they're afraid to come out to their parents there's a reason they're afraid to

01:36:13.720 come out to their parents they probably control what they're seeing what they're hearing if the

01:36:17.360 parents are being if you're 16 17 years old and you're afraid to come out to your parents

01:36:22.540 you know tim there's a reason why lgbtqia youth are massively overrepresented in the homeless population

01:36:31.040 overall about 40 percent of of uh unhoused youth identifies lgbtqia and the reason for that is

01:36:39.260 because they are in homes that are abusive they're in homes where parents kick them out there is a

01:36:44.640 legitimate fear for lgbtqia people to come out to their parents because they see their parents

01:36:50.620 they're not dumb they're they're almost about to be adults they're they've seen the world around

01:36:55.320 them and they see the way that their parents interact with the world and if they see their

01:36:58.720 parents using words like faggot tranny etc i i don't doubt that they would be afraid to come out

01:37:04.660 what's what's stopping the youth from finding a home somewhere else finding a place to live

01:37:08.220 uh well the fact that i think there's this misunderstanding that there's just so many

01:37:13.100 uh uh homeless shelters out there i mean i live in los angeles we just came out we just had our uh

01:37:19.140 our uh statistics for the homelessness count come out just a couple of weeks ago there's now about 70

01:37:25.640 000 people living in la county who are unhoused every single year i participate in the homelessness

01:37:32.460 count it's uh it's done by the la county housing uh housing services authority and it's a point in

01:37:38.880 place counts and what has been really disturbing to me is that over the past five six years i've done

01:37:45.120 the count probably about four times every single year the results come out the numbers just keep

01:37:51.020 increasing and increasing increasing and this is just overall do you know why uh minors are homeless

01:37:56.700 predominantly uh i don't and i don't know if i could you're incorrect uh it's because they chose

01:38:03.140 to be and i know this because i actually worked okay but wouldn't you because i actually worked for

01:38:06.420 a homeless shelter and one of the challenges that we face with multiple buildings in the network was

01:38:11.360 that children would uh the these are these are teenagers typically between 13 and 17 refuse to get

01:38:19.060 off the streets for a variety of reasons well if they are if they are lgbtqia and it's directly

01:38:24.840 related to their identity you can imagine why i mean would you want to live in a home where you

01:38:29.700 don't feel safe where i guarantee you there are lgbtqia kids being these are boarding these are getting

01:38:34.800 the fuck beaten out of them by their parents these are who are homophobic and transphobic private

01:38:39.420 bedroom and a private shelter residence that that are yeah but i think that's a that's a huge myth that

01:38:44.900 there are that there's enough housing for people who are experiencing homelessness yeah yeah i'm sorry

01:38:49.280 you were wrong no you were wrong i worked for a homeless shelter network did i and they were always

01:38:54.340 empty and they instructed us to lie to people to claim that they were full and we were desperate for

01:38:59.920 more money to expand them okay and that's on the that's on the people experiencing homelessness

01:39:04.600 the people who were on the streets that were being given outreach for an opportunity to have a

01:39:09.500 place to live would reject it every time so when i asked you want to know why tim have you ever

01:39:13.280 actually gone out and spoken to those yes i have that's quite literally what i what i did and when

01:39:17.080 i asked the executive director why are why are we being instructed to tell people that we're at

01:39:20.860 capacity when we're empty and when i go to these shelters there's no one here he said we can't get

01:39:25.560 the kids to come they don't want to they don't want to come to tell them that the shelters are

01:39:30.160 no tell the donors the shelters are full because we need their money okay so let me ask you this

01:39:35.620 tim if you were somebody experiencing homelessness and you were living in a tent on the streets of

01:39:40.420 los angeles and somebody came up to you and said uh okay we're going to give you housing but here's

01:39:45.680 the thing you cannot bring you can only bring two bags of belongings you have a curfew you have to be

01:39:51.200 in by nine o'clock you have to be out by 7 a.m you can't have any family members come you can't have

01:39:57.420 any pets come you can't have any visitors the thing is that for being lgbt or anything that's well

01:40:02.220 no but that's just the general argument for that's the general argument for why so many people who are

01:40:06.540 experiencing homelessness are adverse to the idea of taking on these temporary uh uh interim housing

01:40:13.620 situations is because they are carceral in nature and the thing is you and i both believe in freedom

01:40:19.520 and liberty and if do you have a family you have kids or a wife or anything girlfriend a girlfriend

01:40:24.880 so let's say uh you suddenly were in this situation where you're unhoused and they said well you can't

01:40:30.760 have your girlfriend over and um let's say you even did have kids or or something like that and

01:40:36.540 they said you can't have anybody come and stay with you you can have kids you can't have your spouse or

01:40:41.640 your loved one you can only bring two bags of belongings this is not an argument for a fleeing

01:40:46.320 a home because no but this is it is related because again lgbtqia people are overrepresented

01:40:51.760 in the you're simply saying that the circumstances afforded to these kids have a free place to live

01:40:56.840 don't meet what they feel i wouldn't call i wouldn't call kids experiencing homelessness

01:41:01.360 given temporary shelter a free place to live they don't get they don't get the kind of support that

01:41:06.880 actually comes from a loving nurturing home well of course they're opting for living on the street

01:41:10.940 and that population is going to grow think about why somebody would opt to live on the streets

01:41:15.180 instead of being housed that population will grow so if there is a shelter that lets lgbt youth be

01:41:21.400 themselves but they're hey look you can't do certain things if you're going to live here and

01:41:25.020 they say i'd rather live on the streets the issue is not that they're homeless because they're lgbt

01:41:28.680 it's because the shelters suck and these kids would rather be on the streets okay so what where so

01:41:34.500 what is your argument in who's the who's at fault who's the blame here are you blaming lgbtqa youth

01:41:39.900 or are you blaming the system there's no there's no one to blame but if you're going to make the

01:41:43.200 argument that the reason they're homeless is because their parents were abusive when the reality is

01:41:47.160 they don't like if they have if they have parents if they have parents who are not supportive of

01:41:52.400 their identities and are abusing them resultingly i think you might not be aware that there are a lot

01:41:58.600 of parents who literally abuse verbally and physically their children because they are lgbtqa

01:42:04.700 there are there are not every lgbt not every single homeless youth is of course lgbt agreed agreed but if

01:42:11.180 if i'm going to look at my experience having actually worked with this with these networks

01:42:14.780 the kids who are not lgbt who who are uh many of the kids were being abused they ran away

01:42:19.880 uh many of these kids did opt to take a shelter so they could go to school and they could get a

01:42:24.200 better life the majority of them however wouldn't do it regardless of whether they lgbtq or not drug

01:42:28.960 use was it was a big problem drinking was a big problem and so the the prohibitive factor that we

01:42:34.580 experienced was you told the kid they couldn't have drugs they would not come so what they would do

01:42:39.720 instead was they would say okay we'll give you a tent we'll give you blankets and they said thanks and

01:42:42.940 they disappeared the next day it had nothing to do with being lgbt it had everything to do with

01:42:47.500 we don't want to live in this building under these circumstances and if that's the case

01:42:52.600 you can't just say that oh these kids are forced into homeless because of this issue because

01:42:57.720 they're not that i can certainly say the kids who are not lgbt who are drug use is a big component

01:43:03.620 here they're not going to go to a shelter that's prohibiting drugs but if the only factor in say as a 15

01:43:08.580 year old kid who's gay his parents are you know mean they're abusive so he runs away well why

01:43:13.120 wouldn't that kid simply be like yes thank you finally a place to live where people aren't going

01:43:16.740 to be abusive i also don't think that um teenagers in that particular um experience have the knowledge

01:43:22.860 to know about all the resources available and also i live in a place like los angeles where uh there

01:43:28.260 are many resources available but there aren't nearly enough available to every person experiencing

01:43:32.900 homelessness so i i can't even imagine is there a an lg there's there a homelessness shelter anywhere

01:43:39.480 within five miles of here here no way yeah to be honest there may be but we're so you don't think

01:43:44.320 that there might be an lgbtqia kid living somewhere near here who has experienced abuse at home runs

01:43:50.120 away goes to stay with the family moves to a city he's 40 miles away you know you know dc's okay so

01:43:55.420 you're expecting a kid to make their way 40 miles away to dc to find a homeless shelter it's just

01:44:00.780 these are these are not realistic expectations for lgbtq i was a homeless gay adult for two weeks

01:44:07.020 i lived in a car and i can tell you that the people that i encountered on the road um who were also

01:44:12.840 homeless are standing in church lines it was always the churches who were giving us help by the way

01:44:16.820 so we're standing um in line for church uh food and money from the church and nobody wanted a home they

01:44:24.420 didn't want shelter they wanted their money they wanted their food so they could take with the rest of

01:44:28.160 their money and go buy drugs and alcohol with it and it was like we would sit under this tree in a

01:44:34.260 grocery store parking lot and there was all kinds of people and they it was like camping and it was

01:44:40.100 like they enjoyed their freedom they enjoyed they they consider that the ultimate freedom is to not be

01:44:46.000 tied down with bills rent taxes anything just they're just yeah but our 16 year olds really tied down with

01:44:52.160 bills rent and taxes no but there was but they get to party constantly yeah there was a there was when i

01:44:56.780 lived in seattle there was a group they called the avrats the the avenue rats they called themselves

01:45:01.980 that and they were intentionally homeless youth who liked doing whatever they want whenever they

01:45:06.540 wanted they were given food for free because of the support structures that existed to give out food

01:45:10.740 to the homeless then whatever money they would ever get they would do things where they'd get an ebt

01:45:15.620 card sell you know hey i'll give you 180 bucks worth of food for a hundred dollars i bought drugs like

01:45:21.420 right exactly they'd buy drugs with it uh we if you want to address or say no no no i'm sorry i didn't

01:45:26.940 mean to cut you off tim i i really just wanted to say that i i feel like we're kind of starting to

01:45:30.660 run around in circles about this so i was going to change subjects the idea to me is that you know i

01:45:34.700 don't think that any of this is okay i want to be i want to be trans so i'm going to go and be

01:45:39.620 homeless and i'm going to go take advantage of the government i'm sure there might be instances of

01:45:44.440 that but you have to consider that folks that age they don't have the experience they don't know

01:45:48.920 about resources they don't know about possibilities and they don't know about you know support systems

01:45:53.520 that really support them and uh i have worked with enough uh people who have experienced homelessness

01:45:59.700 to understand why they have a massive distrust of um government programs that that promise them

01:46:06.180 housing a lot of people are promised permanence permanent supportive housing but they end up being

01:46:11.660 back on the streets just months later as an example uh so i worked with uh the um i i was

01:46:18.820 somebody who went out during i don't know if you're familiar with echo park in los angeles uh

01:46:23.800 back in march 2021 there was a massive eviction of people experiencing homelessness that were living

01:46:29.680 at echo park lake and um there was uh probably about there was about 200 people uh more or less

01:46:36.440 give or take 10 people living at the park and the thing is these folks actually developed a

01:46:40.820 community with each other you know i think we often think of um you know folks who are experiencing

01:46:46.080 housing folks who have families and friends we have it made we know what it's like even when you're

01:46:50.860 in circumstances like that it is human nature to develop community and to develop alliances

01:46:55.920 and so there was a real community that was built at echo park lake i went there all the time i never

01:47:01.980 felt unsafe uh certainly there are people that feel uncomfortable when they see people experiencing

01:47:07.180 homelessness but that doesn't necessarily mean they are unsafe i never actually felt unsafe walking

01:47:12.340 around that park uh the city council member mitchell farrell at the time did a mass eviction of echo

01:47:17.940 park lake and what was so ugly to me was the fact that he was touting this as this big housing success he

01:47:26.660 said we got almost 200 people into housing what he didn't reveal was that that housing is very temporary

01:47:34.260 in nature and you you fast forward to about a year and a half two years later only five of the nearly

01:47:41.760 200 people that were evicted actually achieved permanent supportive housing seven were dead more people died

01:47:48.920 than were actually given permanent supportive housing so what they'll do is they'll put you in this

01:47:52.580 temporary shelter you've got maybe 60 or 90 days and then your time's up and you're just you're

01:47:59.360 dislocated you're shuffled around and so that's why there is such a distrust amongst people experiencing

01:48:04.800 homelessness whether they're lgbtqia or not about accepting these offers of housing i'll my final

01:48:11.380 thought because i do want to move to the the big finale is uh i agree i think a lot of these shelters

01:48:15.880 are dirty they're they're i think a lot of them are we're going to make a lot of money off this

01:48:20.640 problem and they're not actually helping thank you tim because you can't you can't you can't keep a job

01:48:25.740 as a director of somebody uh you know leading homelessness unless you have people experiencing

01:48:30.340 homelessness if you solve the problem you can't fundraise that and that's with everything

01:48:33.640 you create all these yeah i i'm very distrustful but uh the big finale we have about 10 minutes left

01:48:38.400 okay and i have the question for you that i i i wonder if you've uh been expecting you ready

01:48:44.200 i'm not expecting it but let's see what is when you really care about someone you shouted from the

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01:49:45.020 outlets highway 99 exit cart mill as a woman

01:49:48.400 i think i don't know if i'm qualified to answer that because i don't think that there's a singular

01:49:56.900 answer and i think it goes back into this idea of what i was talking about earlier as we look

01:50:01.240 so many people view the world through this binary lens of you're either this or that you're a man or

01:50:07.140 a woman but the idea of a man the idea of a woman is actually so expansive and there's so much

01:50:12.360 opportunity and nuance in between and i think it's up to the individual to decide and i think

01:50:17.780 that's part of the personal freedom and liberty that i agree with in american ideals is that let

01:50:23.920 us be free to uh be self-determinating and if i tell you that i am somebody i'm not going to tell you

01:50:30.580 just to screw you over or to fool you or to try to get something off of you if i'm telling you this is

01:50:36.680 who i am just to acknowledge me for that and if there ends up being you know a consequence

01:50:41.640 resultingly then deal with it but the fact that we have to have this definition of what a woman is

01:50:47.420 i think it's counterproductive and i think it's in and of itself meant to be transphobic well let me

01:50:52.900 let me let me ask you a follow-up uh what is a female oh um well also you know i think a big thing

01:51:01.000 that we haven't talked about actually at all in this conversation is the idea of intersex people

01:51:06.460 and so again i was talking about this idea of the binary you know people view the world again black

01:51:12.360 and white this or that male or female uh it also it it denigrates the experience of everybody in

01:51:18.780 between there are so many people who are born intersex who are healthy people and they are that

01:51:26.500 would naturally imply there is a male and a female then and there is well right well but that's the

01:51:31.380 thing is perhaps yeah there are but also so what is a state but to state that there is just male and

01:51:37.360 female is incorrect because there's so much in between right i won't say that people who are born

01:51:41.540 people who are born intersex you know i want to define what female is uh female would in my opinion

01:51:47.400 be the one end of this binary that that society has created and whether or not i just i agree or

01:51:54.440 disagree with it it's sort of the circumstances of the society that we live in so sex and gender

01:52:00.120 the argument is they're different sex is a clearly definable scientific scientifically identical

01:52:04.700 thing but you you say it's society created it well i think that they're you know gender and sex are

01:52:11.220 different absolutely so female relating to the sex is male and female yeah i think that it's relating

01:52:16.380 to that but again the idea that it's just male and female it completely takes away the autonomy

01:52:21.060 of intersex people which are there is a huge prevalence of intersex people who were born

01:52:26.240 intersex and these are the people in order for their these are the people we should be has to be a

01:52:30.640 male and a female right uh so i'm not i'm not asking for based off of this idea of a binary i don't

01:52:35.340 disagree with the existence of intersex people but i think that somebody you know if we're gonna if

01:52:39.140 we're gonna try and get to the core of what the social argument is and the argument typically on the

01:52:44.220 lgbt left side is that woman can be your experience well then female has to be discernibly

01:52:50.480 something we can identify well i think you can also you can change your sex and your gender

01:52:54.460 you know uh the you know the appropriate term but you but you you can't change your sex you can't

01:52:59.800 change your gender uh i think that's i disagree i disagree with that how do you alter your dna

01:53:04.360 throughout your whole body you know what do you think what do you think hrt is what do you think

01:53:07.180 hrt is hormone replacement doesn't change that it changes your biology it changes your biology

01:53:11.600 okay so but also if we're talking about chromosomes like in what other context are we describing

01:53:18.200 people based off of their chromosomes i think the argument for this is an argument intentionally

01:53:23.360 created to be an argument against transgender people as if we are some freaks of nature trying

01:53:28.620 to fool people and the fact of the matter is that that's a bit over the top right well no but do you

01:53:33.620 disagree that that there are many people who would who would describe us that way there are a lot of

01:53:39.460 people who are uh very mean i would say but here's what i'm trying to get to and this is what we need to

01:53:44.340 understand we we did not create as a society women's sports because sometimes people wear dresses

01:53:48.800 we created women's sports because biological males versus biological females have differences in

01:53:53.320 fast twitch versus slow twitch muscle center of gravity general uh collagen and bone density okay but

01:53:58.920 also when we talk about sports this when we talk about sports it's not just about you know it's very

01:54:04.480 much uh condensed into this idea of oh um you know we're uh transgender people are erasing women and you

01:54:11.560 know there are all these cis women who are not getting scholarships and not winning the fact of

01:54:15.160 the matter is transgender people have been performing in sports with cisgender people for a long time

01:54:20.760 it's only recently become this cultural phenomenon where people are speaking out against it and the

01:54:25.040 thing is transgender people are not always winning against cisgender people and that in and of itself

01:54:29.900 defies the argument that that uh you know folks who are born male shouldn't be competing with with

01:54:36.020 well that's not the argument folks who are born female the argument may be mistakenly on the surface

01:54:40.180 to a lot of people is that biological males are winning all the time the argument is that uh i'll

01:54:45.840 give you an example in skateboarding the first ever 1080 uh three full three full rotations was done i

01:54:51.820 think by a 12 year old boy that was 10 years ago it is only in the past week that a female landed the

01:54:59.320 first 720 two rotations these are preview best and this is a 12 year old girl even before puberty there is

01:55:05.600 very visibly uh discernible distinctions between the sexes when it comes to sporting capability

01:55:10.140 so if you take someone who has all the advantages of uh uh a prenatal testosterone for instance in

01:55:17.180 the womb quite literally with more testosterone they're going to be competing with advantages over

01:55:21.720 people who do not have that and so the issue ultimately ultimately becomes if if the purpose

01:55:27.100 of competition is a dedication to training ability a combination of natural talent abilities and hard

01:55:32.800 work what you're doing is you're saying that some people who have a biological advantage but maybe

01:55:38.360 don't have the same level of of capabilities in the male spectrum are not competing against women

01:55:42.860 they may not they may not may or may not win but that means these these females are pushing 10 times

01:55:48.380 harder to try and be at the same level they would have been were it not for the male who's competing

01:55:52.320 against them well i think what your argument is leaving out is you know something that you emphasized

01:55:57.320 heavily is this idea of competition and it's something that i think you left out about this idea about

01:56:02.340 sports and about um being in athletics is uh one of the greatest things that comes to uh people whether

01:56:10.280 they be adults or children engaging in sports and sports and athletics which is this idea that uh of

01:56:16.480 team building there are so many benefits of actually uh being on a team uh that you know apply when you have

01:56:24.340 teams that are made up of cisgender and transgender people and it applies in many different realms it applies to

01:56:30.500 the sport itself you know developing a team being a team member uh it's not always just about winning

01:56:35.980 and i think that's part of what is so awful in our american culture is there's this emphasis on i must

01:56:41.560 wane i have to be the best i have to wane when i think competition i think we lose sight of what is uh

01:56:47.840 so wonderful about sports and a lot of sports are you know it's team building and it's uh working

01:56:52.920 we're not we're not tracking the stats of basketball teams because they have good teams we don't have

01:56:56.740 like how many high fives did lebron get but that's the thing is like what's the point of then you have

01:57:00.300 to ask well what's the point of doing a sport are you doing a sport just to win and show you're

01:57:03.780 better than somebody it's it's a competition between everybody to see who is ultimately the

01:57:07.720 best well if you know i recall i did sports growing up and one of the things that i actually

01:57:12.820 got out of that was team building it was never about i must win everything and i think that's a

01:57:17.220 really awful way to approach life is i must win everything it's a very capitalist approach it's a very

01:57:22.900 unfortunately american-centric approach of i must win i must be better because there has to be

01:57:27.720 somebody beneath me so uh i i we have a few minutes left and i had a question uh throughout the show

01:57:32.080 you've used the phrase cis to refer to people i'm curious how you justify using a term that is

01:57:36.520 offensive to a group of people i i laugh at that because it didn't become that's it's it's so

01:57:42.380 manufactured that that's offensive to people when people have been calling trans what right do you

01:57:47.260 have to tell people that i will tell people that because as as somebody who is transgender

01:57:51.740 the term tranny which i i use that term and i apologize if anybody listening is a you know

01:57:58.520 offended by that but as somebody who's transgender that word is has intentionally been used to

01:58:03.860 denigrate and dehumanize transgender people like queer like queer but cis is not cis no it's not it's

01:58:10.300 actually a medical so it's a medical latin prefix that has been used for time yeah and that's why i'm

01:58:16.740 not offended by the term homosexual a lot of people are in fact you'll get banned people are

01:58:20.700 social media if we're saying homosexual if you call someone a homo on youtube you will be taken

01:58:24.980 down and given a strike for hate speech okay well i disagree with that but i don't think that but

01:58:30.100 cis is not a cis is not a slur i will say that unapologetically group of people that they're

01:58:36.000 offended by a word you mean the group of people that is totally in dominance totally normative

01:58:42.020 what does that have to do with whether a group of people is offended by a word and consider it hate

01:58:45.360 because that group of people many folks within that group will use the opposite trans to describe

01:58:51.620 people in a way that is offensive but that's the thing is trans is not offensive i don't consider

01:58:56.220 trans to be offensive and i'm a transgender person i don't consider that's the group's preferred term

01:59:01.020 yeah but it's not the the other group's preferred term but those are not these are not preferred terms

01:59:06.240 these are these are these are words that are being used in opposition people want to be identified as

01:59:10.600 the way they want to be identified and you should use their pronouns so how would you like me to

01:59:14.120 describe you as as somebody i don't care what you call me i'm saying if people tell you don't call

01:59:18.600 me that you're saying you should call me the terms i want but i can call you whatever i want okay but

01:59:22.820 then how would you what word or phrase would you use to describe somebody who is not transgender

01:59:28.360 that's not up to me to decide well i'm somebody actually it is because you just told me that

01:59:34.520 cis is offensive and you are somebody who i would consider cis but i won't use that word because

01:59:38.760 i know you find it offensive i say they're organic that's what i organic yeah i'm also organic do you

01:59:45.020 think there's anything about me that's not organic well he thinks it's not a slur so he can call you

01:59:49.420 that if he wants right um i'm as far as organic i'm talking about being medicalized and and surgically

01:59:54.940 enhanced and all of that organic only you think only transgender people are medically and surgically

02:00:00.400 enhanced i think more uh average person i highly disagree right but what i'm saying is i'm you know

02:00:07.200 when you represent when you represent what you were born right there that's isn't that surgery

02:00:10.900 isn't that medicalized i just you can care you can care i'm talking about at birth what you are born

02:00:18.560 as my my my argument has always been um i use people's prefer pronouns i don't and thank you i

02:00:24.420 appreciate that tim i do appreciate that and i heard you say that in a previous podcast that you did

02:00:28.540 um and i i do really appreciate that i don't use neo pronouns though i think that is confusing and

02:00:34.480 hard for anyone to understand well i think it's also i think it's used as an argument to discount

02:00:39.400 many trans people i while i if somebody was to say to me hey these are my neo pronouns please use them

02:00:44.940 i would take an effort to try to use them if somebody else doesn't i can't be the person to say

02:00:49.480 you must do that but this idea that that issue is where's the line if somebody says i am you know my

02:00:54.720 pronouns are he or she or they what is the big deal just respect people as they come to you and this

02:01:01.060 is my point if uh uh you know we've had many trans guests in the show they say you know typically

02:01:06.300 nobody uh says like please use these pronouns we just use what seems to make the most sense what

02:01:11.500 they dress like but but if somebody says like but again that's like even that is so like it's so

02:01:16.120 culturally developed like there's nothing inherently biological about the way that somebody dresses

02:01:21.640 it's so socially but as a drag queen i can tell you what a woman is i mean i wouldn't even get to

02:01:27.000 that what i'll ask you but i just wanted to address this if if i'm asked by a trans person to use their

02:01:31.680 pronouns and say refer to me this way i say sure and if someone says don't call me says it's offensive

02:01:35.920 i say okay but i don't understand how it's inverted that the the trans uh many not all for me it's you

02:01:43.640 have to look at the group that is the dominant group and you have to look at the group that is

02:01:47.280 subjugated you have to look at the group that is being harmed by societal norms and that's that's

02:01:53.320 sort of my approach to it but truly truly tim if you were to tell me that cis was offensive to you

02:01:58.360 i wouldn't refer to you as cis i don't want to do anything to individually harm people but i will

02:02:02.820 also say that not all people who are not trans consider cis to be um but it's not about trans

02:02:09.280 people but that's the other thing is as for me i'm also i'm i'm trans but i'm not a monolith

02:02:14.540 if there's a trans person who says i don't like the word queer as you said or i don't like the word

02:02:19.280 uh you know trans or tranny i'm not going to use those words because ultimately ultimately my goal

02:02:24.820 is to see people as they see themselves to come at you as you are what couple minutes we can did

02:02:30.200 you want to answer what is a woman well yeah a woman is i can tell you what a woman is every drag queen

02:02:34.020 can tell you what a woman is if they're being honest this is why they wear the big hips the butt

02:02:38.740 the boobs that they tuck their penis so we we've already determined a woman does not have a penis

02:02:44.540 because drag queens tuck their penises i've never seen one drag queen in all of my years of pageants

02:02:50.000 have a bulge okay well you've never been to any of my shows and they do whatever they can

02:02:54.820 rupaul's drag race the biggest drag show there is you will never see a bulge you will never see the

02:02:59.800 penis rupaul's dragon rupaul's drag race is not the and it's all be all of and it's competition what

02:03:06.020 you're against and it's competition you i'm not against competition but also that is in a different

02:03:12.020 than sports and team building i'll tell you working in the in the gay nightlife entertainment

02:03:16.380 industry it was the most toxic environment i have ever worked in more more misogynistic and

02:03:22.000 patriarchal than being when i was a trucker and a diesel mechanic i'll tell you that it that but i

02:03:27.580 tell you back to what a woman was a woman is a human that's born with a vagina and has the capability

02:03:33.640 of reproducing or giving birth whether they can do it or not they have the anatomy for it to me that's

02:03:39.980 what a woman is then we all know it the traditional definition is and this is matt walsh says all the

02:03:45.660 time but it is literally the dictionary definition adult human female yes and then female is defined

02:03:50.100 as uh one of two biological sexes that has a characteristic but that's the that's the falsehood

02:03:55.100 there's not just two you're completely there are you're no you're ignoring intersex people but

02:03:59.580 intersex is not a third sex it's in between no it's not actually just in between it's it's there

02:04:06.140 are so many variants of of chromosomes right but sex refers to mobile uh sperm or immobile ova okay

02:04:13.760 but also even go with what kitty said like the whole idea of trying to define this is to bring

02:04:19.260 trans people down and that's what i disagree with because no it actually is i have a trans brother

02:04:23.680 okay okay well it's quite literally i have a trans brother throughout since the dawn of genetics in

02:04:29.420 this research we have uh and even before that we've identified mobile sperm and immobile ova which is the

02:04:35.100 the the rudimentary version of what this term sex means and this i'm not talking about humans i'm

02:04:39.380 talking about plants and animals and just life in general there is no goma there's no third semi-mobile

02:04:46.620 uh uh yeah but again like you when you when you define things on either ends of a spectrum

02:04:54.080 everything in between you're you're totally ignoring everything in between and saying no well you must be

02:04:59.340 either this or that and that's why intersex kids are are have to undergo um surgeries that they don't

02:05:06.240 consent to when they're infants and they have to they're they're socialized to be a certain way

02:05:10.200 that's grooming that's indoctrination that's that's not an argument against the science i mean if if

02:05:14.800 science shows that there are uh overwhelmingly when it comes to biological sex it is it is overwhelmingly

02:05:20.100 bimodal in that you are correct there's a there's an overlap intersex exists but it's about 98 to

02:05:25.040 98 going to fall into so do we ignore the two percent of the people when there's eight billion

02:05:29.900 people on this planet that's a lot of people it just means that when it comes to science we don't

02:05:33.840 lie about it for the sake of someone's feelings you define you know a woman as someone being able to

02:05:37.560 give birth so is uh somebody born a female who um is infertile or i said whether i said whether or not

02:05:45.760 they can give birth so so but but that's just a so it's just based off of chromosomes i just don't

02:05:51.080 understand why we're having an argument about chromosomes i have no problem being a man with a

02:05:55.400 penis and enjoying having a penis in a man and being a man and also dressing like a woman and

02:06:00.480 being feminine like i am i consider what i'm very secure person that i could do that i could i can

02:06:06.460 say yeah i'm a man so i also enjoy being i also enjoy putting on that woman you're insecure with us

02:06:11.640 i don't know i'm not insecure with you at all i have no problem with it with trans adults i have no

02:06:16.140 problem with that like i said my brother is trans i have no problem my best friends i have best

02:06:20.300 friends that are trans no problem i hope that's true no it is true we you know we have trans like

02:06:25.300 buck angel and blair white they're very level-headed trans people sarah higdon huh sarah higdon i mean

02:06:31.540 you know and it's like why is it that there are certain part of our so-called community which

02:06:38.340 i'm an h i'm not lgbtq any i'm a i'm homosexual which is the new like straight white man of the

02:06:45.760 community okay and the thing is it cracks me up because it's there are people like me buck angel

02:06:55.900 and blair white who have a completely different experience than say other people who are just so

02:07:00.180 sensitive and they just cry over everything and they look at everything as some sort of

02:07:05.040 um argument or fight or something to erase them when there's others there's a whole population of us on

02:07:11.120 the other side that are completely content with it like we go to we go to trump rallies and we're

02:07:16.000 praised and everybody loves us and i've yet okay so then why then why have there been over half a

02:07:20.900 thousand anti-lgbtqia bills because of these books and yes it's all about okay but nobody had a problem

02:07:27.940 so kids if we if trans people are not the sensitive ones it appears that people who are not when you're

02:07:34.660 showing books to children when children are being shown books on how to use grinder and they're 10 years old

02:07:39.080 and then again i have said and i want to make sure that i disagree with so why is it that you have

02:07:44.620 why is it that these shows with millions of followers quite literally a youtube channel with

02:07:48.220 over a million subscribers says the opposite of what you just said and they want children to see

02:07:52.140 that book how do we get those people i can't speak for those people and again we are not a monolith

02:07:56.500 you have to if and i'm sick of i'm sick of people trying to describe my experience as a trans person

02:08:01.760 uh and pulling out again these outlier scenarios and saying well this is what other trans people are doing

02:08:06.920 so you must be there must be something wrong with your community there is whether or not that's

02:08:11.400 explicitly said it's implied then we can say it's implied through the legislation that is being

02:08:15.300 introduced to actively harm lgbtqia we can say it this way you appear to be in the overwhelming

02:08:20.800 majority whose opinions do not reflect the greater community on the left and the lgbt community

02:08:25.100 as prominent channels with millions of followers defend these books being given to children and you

02:08:29.300 reject them in which case you can understand why there are many post-liberal or conservative

02:08:34.720 individuals who are saying ban it because when we look to the msnbcs when we look to these prominent

02:08:40.620 left-wing youtube channels they're saying more and we're saying stop stop even if it is one story or

02:08:46.300 one book one time why is nbc news advocating for more of it that is the narrative that comes out in

02:08:53.620 the corporate press and among high-profile left personalities which creates the image that is

02:08:58.800 what the lgbt community wants okay well let me ask you this you know there's this we keep going back

02:09:02.780 to this idea of book banning i disagree with the idea of book banning i think there has been a lot

02:09:07.340 of awful precedents that have been set by book banning uh i think that people should be free to

02:09:13.260 choose you know within legal you know limitations in context like i don't again i don't agree with

02:09:20.000 any sort of um books that have to deal with bibles and i don't think that the bible should be banned

02:09:24.620 if you want to have the bible in the library go for it but do i think that the bible should be taught

02:09:28.440 and given to every student in a classroom no in the same way that either of these books on this

02:09:33.240 table here they're not being distributed to every child in a school even though that is the bible

02:09:38.780 well the many folks would like to see that she was giving it to all of the middle her students she

02:09:43.460 was giving so every child in that middle school was given that well that's a bit of an absolute

02:09:46.580 statement she was giving it to her students the teacher was giving and again i disagree with that

02:09:50.320 i disagree with that but if why why won't let me ask you this though what's the difference between

02:09:54.500 why won't mbc why why won't anyone else call it out i don't know i don't know i'm not mbc so so i'm

02:10:00.900 actually i'm not i'm not even arguing with you we agree yeah what can we do to get mainstream

02:10:05.860 prominent left personalities to reject this stuff for children the idea when we say things like ban

02:10:11.080 books that gives this idea that the book should be burned it should just be totally out of circulation

02:10:17.620 this book should be available to whomever wants to read it and again age appropriate so adults so

02:10:23.700 what's the difference between going to having this book available in a library versus this book

02:10:28.640 being available at barnes and noble would you want that book sitting next to another book that was

02:10:32.360 against transgender well this is actually you know what i'm saying when you go to these bookstores

02:10:37.040 unfortunately no but i'm not going to say that that book can't exist now i can't i can't speak

02:10:41.780 specifically for this book is gay or genderqueer whatever but uh uh genderqueer on amazon is listed as

02:10:47.080 18 up and i think this book is gay is listed as 14 to 17 which is which is interesting considering

02:10:51.940 this is actually more again i haven't read them so i can't really truthfully critique them um but

02:10:57.360 again i think that things should be considered in an age appropriate context and what we sorry we've

02:11:03.900 definitely gone way over but i just wanted to ask you one final thing yes have you've not read gender

02:11:08.520 queer no but i imagine that i've seen some of the imagery that's is in there that has been that's been

02:11:14.000 shown around on twitter which again is accessible to children i agree and i disagree with people posting it

02:11:19.320 in that context i always censor these things and that is only i think two pages out of the whole

02:11:23.320 book the book to me i i often tell conservatives read it did you read it they say no these these

02:11:30.300 these people who are very critical of gender ideology i said did you really say no i'm like how have you

02:11:33.660 not read the book you've been criticizing so heavily because the book is actually about something

02:11:37.420 completely different this book is about a young female who was brutally abused by her parents and in a

02:11:44.160 very extreme and disturbing way that cps should have intervened she could not read till she was 12

02:11:50.000 she had to wear crusted pads covered in blood to school to the point where she smelled so awful

02:11:55.720 they had to remove her from class and tell her of her stench this is not a you know the conservatives

02:12:01.720 are pointing out this one part of the book where this uh this this non-binary individual is saying

02:12:07.880 here here here are my uh my my predilections quite uh literally referring to auto androphilia

02:12:12.320 in the book and then showing these images explaining what that is i see this and i say

02:12:17.800 this is a book about trauma of a child and these are the kinds of things that should be prevented

02:12:27.540 no no 12 year old girl going through puberty should have to wear the same pad covered in menstrual blood

02:12:33.160 for five days straight to the point where other students are saying you smell like feces get out right

02:12:38.340 but that's what this book is and so long as people are ignoring stories like that these adults who need

02:12:43.460 to read it they're not going to understand what's causing a lot of these these social issues that they

02:12:47.940 seem to be complaining about so i i recommend you know i understand people people might not want

02:12:53.240 i don't think it's appropriate for kids but you know yeah i now this book is gay is is uh i think

02:12:59.820 it's there's two chapters in it that have been the subject of contention because they explicitly talk

02:13:03.260 about sex if if there's a question about age appropriate uh education as you mentioned when

02:13:09.080 like just literally explaining to a kid someone might have two dads i got i have no issue with

02:13:13.020 that right if if the argument is like hey third grade and down we don't do any kind of sex ed at all

02:13:17.980 i'm like sure fine whatever like that's what happened in florida now granted florida extended it all the

02:13:22.820 way up to like 12th grade or whatever we can have those arguments but i'll just wrap it up my final

02:13:27.200 thought saying it's it's the explicit nature of it which i think we agree we don't want kids

02:13:31.300 to be looking at these kinds of things right getting that to be sort of the mainstream argument

02:13:36.160 i think would be the goal but i'll leave it there i don't know we've gone over so if you have any

02:13:39.880 final thoughts you wanted to add before yeah i i you know i agree with what you say in that last part

02:13:44.060 is you know let kids be kids and enjoy their innocence but unfortunately there are bad actors

02:13:49.620 that would you know that do actively seek to destroy kids innocence you know there are absolutely kids

02:13:55.660 who are between the ages of kindergarten and third grade who are sexually abused by parents family

02:14:00.780 members neighbors etc and when you don't provide any sort of sex education to kids letting them know

02:14:07.900 that that kind of behavior is wrong they they accept it as something that is just coming at them and they

02:14:13.920 don't realize it and so that's really my big argument for um comprehensive sex education is to actually

02:14:20.900 protect children and give them the empowerment to know what is right and wrong in the way that other

02:14:26.100 people treat them in in terms of touching and things like that and it's very easy for kids to

02:14:32.120 be manipulated and the goal of of most the overwhelming majority of lgbtqia people in my opinion

02:14:38.720 is not to um groom or indoctrinate children it's to actually provide tools to be able to self-protect

02:14:46.620 and to also realize that there are many different kinds of people in the world many of them deserving

02:14:51.080 respect and lgbtqia people should not be conflated with groomers and pedophiles uh intrinsically

02:14:58.880 okay and i would just like to say that um as far as um i believe that drag queen um storybook hour

02:15:07.080 and the push for drag is basically gateway trans that's what it's turned out to be in my experience

02:15:12.840 you can't turn someone trans um i'm not saying that they're trying to be turned trans i'm trying to

02:15:19.160 say that a lot of people get into drag and then they say they're trans afterwards and i've noticed

02:15:25.520 that a lot but that's also that's actually a very that's a very common way that a lot of trans people

02:15:30.440 realize they're trans for instance i actually came into my trans identity after i started doing drag

02:15:36.080 because i was actually never exposed to lgbtqia education growing up when i started doing drag it

02:15:42.200 was actually a safe way for me to experiment with um you know this idea of costuming of of um you can

02:15:49.580 call it costuming but for me that was the thing is for many drag performers it feels like a costume

02:15:54.600 and when i realized it didn't feel like a costume for me but a natural extension of my gender identity

02:15:59.700 that's when i realized there was something more than it just being uh fantasy play time

02:16:04.980 final thoughts my final thoughts yes um i'm what i'm glad what i saw what what my what my goal was

02:16:12.000 was to get parents on board that's why i made my original video in 2019 parents are on barred now

02:16:16.940 they're listening they're at school board meetings they're doing all kinds of things they're you know

02:16:21.260 finally people are waking up and um that was my my goal and um i'm glad to see that happening um

02:16:29.920 i i do think that the youth that you know like whitney houston says the children are our future

02:16:35.380 we have to worry about that we have to care about our future and um i just i don't i just i'm tired

02:16:41.860 of the confusion of kids i was a kid i was it confused me as well and um just you know follow me um

02:16:49.260 official kitty demure um hogatha sisti we i didn't even get to talk about hogatha she's a whole different

02:16:54.360 character um that turns um the whole trans thing on its side um and um it's a new it's it's the

02:17:03.460 modern woman drag character um and um i'm going to have a podcast coming up called bfm coming up soon

02:17:10.120 and looking forward to the launch of that and i'm just going to keep fighting and doing what i think

02:17:14.260 is right regardless of my supposed loving community agrees with me or not right on did you want to

02:17:19.540 mention any social yeah absolutely uh so again i'm the first drag queen ever elected to public

02:17:24.260 office and i'm running to be the first transgender person ever elected to the u.s house of

02:17:29.000 representatives this is my third time running for congress i came in second place out of nine

02:17:32.760 candidates last last year with over 60 000 votes and uh i'm running on a platform that includes

02:17:38.980 universal health care housing for all education for all environmental justice racial justice lgbtqia

02:17:44.560 rights reproductive rights and all of the great progressive things you can follow me on instagram

02:17:49.860 at maybeagirl on twitter at maybe underscore a underscore girl or you can visit our website

02:17:55.600 maybeagirlforcongress.org hoping to get some more supporters right on thank you both for coming this

02:18:01.400 has been fun uh we'd go on for a million years but i think we're right here and for everybody who

02:18:05.580 watched everybody who watched thank you so much for checking it out of course we sponsor ourselves

02:18:09.640 cast brew coffee cast brew.com check us out i will not be here next week i will be out of town for

02:18:16.020 uh i'm going to a specialist for a sports injury and then seamus is going to be hosting timcast irl

02:18:20.340 throughout the the week and then hannah claire i believe will be hosting next week's culture war

02:18:23.960 which is going to be epic i don't know if i'm supposed to say who's going to be on but it's going

02:18:27.480 to be a big debate over elections thank you so much for hanging out and we will see you all next time

The Culture War - Tim Pool

The Culture War #21 - Is Drag Appropriate For Kids？ w⧸Maebe A. Girl & Kitty Demure

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