The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #25 - Indoctrination or Education, Critical Race And Gender Theory In Schools

00:00:00.000 Today on The Culture War, we're going to be discussing education or indoctrination in

00:00:08.340 schools.

00:00:09.500 Are we going to, is what's happening right now the appropriate degree of information

00:00:14.580 being given to children, or is it inappropriate subject matter that parents should have more

00:00:18.380 control of?

00:00:18.940 This has been a big topic that's been happening for quite a bit.

00:00:21.440 And actually, as of right now, as we're producing this show, gender studies is trending because

00:00:25.780 there's news out of Florida where a university has removed the gender studies program.

00:00:30.020 Now, a lot of people on the left would say it's not indoctrination.

00:00:33.560 It's appropriate education.

00:00:34.380 People on the right would call it indoctrination.

00:00:35.760 But I think it's fair to point out that even on our shows, we've mentioned that whatever

00:00:40.600 ideology you're bringing to your children is some form of indoctrination.

00:00:44.260 You either want them to have your values or you don't want them to have someone else's

00:00:47.820 values.

00:00:48.260 So this is what we're going to be talking about today and probably a whole lot more.

00:00:52.000 And we've got a couple of really great guests.

00:00:53.500 Would you like to start, Desmond?

00:00:54.400 Hi, I'm Desmond Fambrini.

00:00:55.560 So nice to meet everyone.

00:00:56.540 I'm a learning specialist based in the Bay Area.

00:00:58.560 Well, thanks for joining us.

00:00:59.880 Of course.

00:01:00.920 Hi, I'm Kelly Shinkusky.

00:01:02.620 I'm a mom.

00:01:03.520 I'm an education researcher at this point.

00:01:06.340 And I'm so glad to be here.

00:01:07.900 Thank you for having me.

00:01:09.040 Yeah.

00:01:09.500 Thank you both for joining.

00:01:11.560 It should be very interesting.

00:01:12.200 We were having a fairly decent conversation before, but we wanted to hold off.

00:01:15.380 Hold off on it.

00:01:16.220 On a lot of the questions.

00:01:17.340 But I think we could, we'll start light.

00:01:19.860 And you actually had a question for me about homeschooling.

00:01:22.040 Yeah.

00:01:22.360 And you had mentioned, Kelly, homeschooling.

00:01:24.520 So let's, we'll start light right there.

00:01:27.320 And I don't know, did you want to ask?

00:01:29.000 I got to say, so I kind of, I like to do my background research and I'm like, oh, Tim

00:01:32.660 Poole, there's a little bit of homeschooling here.

00:01:34.040 I heard that word.

00:01:34.800 And it may surprise people that I actually was homeschooled from sixth grade to eighth

00:01:40.160 grade and definitely attribute, there was six other kids that were kind of in that homeschool

00:01:44.160 program.

00:01:44.960 And I think I attribute, I'd say most of my academic success because I was able to get

00:01:48.860 that small, intensive kind of environment.

00:01:51.980 But it doesn't seem to work for absolutely everyone.

00:01:54.700 And then on the other hand, it works for a lot of people.

00:01:57.020 So I want to know your experience and your experience and what the benefits are and then

00:02:00.540 also what the drawbacks are.

00:02:01.480 And if you ever worry about things like socialization and things like that, I would love to get your

00:02:04.640 perspective.

00:02:05.500 Well, so let me, let me start by asking both of you just one simple question.

00:02:08.340 Where are you from?

00:02:09.740 Bay Area, California.

00:02:10.460 So I always say like, oh, you know, like the Golden Gate Bridge and how it goes into San

00:02:13.100 Francisco.

00:02:13.640 Ever wonder what's on the other side?

00:02:15.160 Me.

00:02:15.680 And that's where I'm from.

00:02:16.880 And Kelly, where are you from?

00:02:17.740 I'm not far.

00:02:18.540 The central coast of California.

00:02:20.360 Oh, okay.

00:02:20.760 Interesting.

00:02:21.320 Interesting.

00:02:21.880 Because I was, the first thing I was thinking, I was like, I wonder if region has something

00:02:24.340 to do with perspectives on education, but you guys are actually fairly close.

00:02:27.940 Fairly close to one another.

00:02:28.900 Yeah.

00:02:29.420 So I have a rather strange and unique educational background.

00:02:34.640 My mom started homeschooling me and my siblings the moment, like, I don't even know if it's

00:02:39.040 fair to say from one, I think zero is probably, to a certain degree, every parent is teaching

00:02:44.260 their kids something.

00:02:45.280 But my mom actually started having us do math and reading.

00:02:48.300 And I was playing chess when I was like three.

00:02:50.600 That doesn't mean a whole lot for a three-year-old, but it means they were showing me the chess

00:02:53.540 board, explaining the moves and having me try and tell me what was right, what was wrong.

00:02:56.920 By the time I started kindergarten, I already knew multiplication and division and a bunch of basic

00:03:01.560 math stuff, negatives, always understood the concept of negatives and, you know, very simple,

00:03:07.740 you know, grade school stuff.

00:03:08.920 But for, you know, a five-year-old entering kindergarten, leaps and bounds above the kids

00:03:13.280 around me.

00:03:13.740 And we used to play this game in first grade called Around the World.

00:03:18.280 You get it from your desk, you stand behind the person next to you, and then the teacher

00:03:22.520 pulls up a flash card.

00:03:23.960 And whoever says the answer first advances.

00:03:27.640 If the person's standing, it loses, they take that seat and that person stands up.

00:03:32.220 And if you make it all the way around the world, you get a ticket.

00:03:34.820 You get 10 tickets, you win a prize or whatever.

00:03:36.320 Me and my brother never lost.

00:03:38.300 Crushed, love that.

00:03:39.760 Just never lost.

00:03:40.540 And eventually got to the point where they asked us to stop playing.

00:03:42.260 So I went to Catholic school from kindergarten until fifth grade, went to public school from

00:03:49.480 sixth grade to eighth grade, spent, I think, three months in public high school.

00:03:54.620 And that's where my grades went from very good to complete and total failure, straight Fs,

00:04:00.040 except for music class, which didn't really have a grading curve anyway.

00:04:03.320 And then that's when I stopped and did a correspondence school.

00:04:06.280 And that was the end of it.

00:04:07.480 So it's a mix of homeschooling and public schooling.

00:04:11.580 And there's a big, one of the big issues that everyone's talking about right now.

00:04:14.620 And one thing we advocate for is more homeschooling and pod schooling, because I think the public

00:04:18.620 schools are failing in a million different ways.

00:04:21.400 Very interesting.

00:04:22.160 So just a little bit about me is that actually, so one thing that I do is actually somewhat

00:04:25.640 of a pod program.

00:04:26.800 So I, you know, went to Dartmouth, was a double major in gender studies and government, but

00:04:31.620 went on to get my master's of science from Johns Hopkins and then moved on to start kind

00:04:34.620 of my own education clinic.

00:04:36.180 And one of our services is that we have like a pod.

00:04:38.480 So as in, we take students that have learning differences, learning disabilities, whatever

00:04:42.360 you would want to call it, but it's a small pod, you know, two other learning specialists

00:04:45.920 and we kind of rotate those kids.

00:04:47.260 There's like three or four of them.

00:04:48.800 And you'd be amazed at like what these kids that were three or four years behind could be

00:04:52.960 caught up fairly quickly if they're given the right environment and the right kind of

00:04:56.720 focus on academic achievement.

00:04:58.240 It's really insane what can be accomplished.

00:05:01.060 Was your educational experience traditional or how would you describe it?

00:05:04.260 I grew up in public school.

00:05:05.820 I have a bachelor of arts degree in English.

00:05:08.520 And for me, I was, I was happy and content with the public school system and it was personal

00:05:15.560 experience that led us to homeschool really.

00:05:19.480 And it was something, you know, my perspective of homeschooling was very narrow growing up.

00:05:25.220 And from this experience, I've learned that homeschooling can actually be quite incredible.

00:05:32.400 It's brought a lot of joy to our family and particularly an incredible love of learning,

00:05:40.320 which has been great to see.

00:05:42.700 I think, I think pod learning is, is probably the way to go.

00:05:45.140 And I'll just give you my opinion right away.

00:05:46.560 I despise the education system in this country.

00:05:49.660 I'm not sure if that means anything.

00:05:51.300 Like it's probably the same in most countries, but I it's, it's, it's, it's industrialized.

00:05:55.960 It's mechanized, the bell ringing.

00:05:57.320 It's, it doesn't, it doesn't help the average kid.

00:06:00.280 I, I grew up witnessing kids of tremendous talent be left behind kids of, of who needed

00:06:07.340 that extra push, not getting it.

00:06:08.940 And I just said, this one size fits all mechanization in schools is, is, is, is a failure.

00:06:13.660 Doesn't work.

00:06:14.220 I only could stay there for two years because literally on the first day, right?

00:06:18.520 They're talking about doing reading intervention.

00:06:20.100 And I go, okay, so you got different levels.

00:06:22.620 You got some kids that come in knowing addition, subtraction, multiplication.

00:06:25.620 You got some kids that have never seen letters before.

00:06:28.340 And they go, okay, well you, you know, you assess the kids and I'm like, okay, that makes

00:06:32.220 sense.

00:06:32.780 You see who's the low group.

00:06:34.380 Got it.

00:06:34.900 You see who the high group is and you see the medium group.

00:06:37.100 And I'm like, okay, that makes sense.

00:06:38.260 And they go, okay, so the low group gets seen like, you know, five times a week, medium

00:06:42.640 group gets seen three times, high group gets seen twice.

00:06:45.020 And I'm like, wait, that doesn't, but then the high group isn't going to get better.

00:06:50.100 And they're like, but that, but they're like, but it's about making everyone the same.

00:06:54.460 And I'm like, but that is extremely counterintuitive.

00:06:57.120 This was the first day, the first day of being a kindergarten teacher.

00:07:00.660 And I have nothing to say poorly against my first school that I taught at.

00:07:03.140 Love you very much, even though they don't even exist anymore.

00:07:04.880 But there was something inherently wrong, which is why I couldn't stay in the public system

00:07:08.280 because I'm like, I, you're telling me to do something that is designed to make everyone

00:07:13.560 average.

00:07:14.440 And I guarantee you, even the low kids, there's something not average about them, but you're

00:07:18.900 literally giving me a reading instruction schedule that says by the end of the year,

00:07:22.460 you want everyone at a level D.

00:07:24.800 Some kids are a level D already.

00:07:26.580 And some kids aren't even a level double A and you want everyone to be the same.

00:07:30.740 That's, that seems counterintuitive to me.

00:07:32.860 When, when I was in grade school, I think it was eighth grade.

00:07:36.360 They did this new program where they, uh, half the class was eighth grade, half the class

00:07:41.020 was seventh grade.

00:07:41.700 The teacher taught the seventh graders and the eighth graders were left to their own devices.

00:07:45.000 Interesting.

00:07:45.360 And they said it was a good thing for us and, you know, I got to admit to a certain

00:07:49.480 degree, fine.

00:07:50.260 Get the teachers off our back.

00:07:51.240 They would say, here's your assignment.

00:07:52.040 Have a nice day.

00:07:52.860 Interesting.

00:07:53.340 But I mean, we're, we're 12 years old.

00:07:56.120 We may be smarter on average or whatever.

00:07:57.800 We were like, you know, the 20 kids who were higher, you know, achieving.

00:08:01.460 Right.

00:08:01.880 But that doesn't mean you don't give guidance to these kids as adults.

00:08:05.100 So yeah, I find that, I find that really interesting.

00:08:08.060 Uh, I, my experience with public schools was nasty teachers who didn't care, tenured or whatever

00:08:13.340 you call it, they couldn't be fired.

00:08:14.720 They'd been there for decades.

00:08:15.920 They were nasty.

00:08:16.900 They were mean.

00:08:17.660 The kids hated school.

00:08:19.100 And it's, it's a, it's a damn shame that there is such a phrase school sucks.

00:08:24.220 Thank you.

00:08:24.700 Kids are saying.

00:08:25.260 Right.

00:08:25.820 There is an inherent issue with that, right?

00:08:27.680 There is an inherent issue with that idea of school being inherently thought of as bad

00:08:33.040 as opposed to something that could be thought of as good.

00:08:35.460 Right.

00:08:35.800 Now, the question of course remains is that does homeschooling really fix the problem or is

00:08:41.580 that simply like a bandaid on the situation, right?

00:08:45.300 Cause it's simply, or it's not even bandaid would be the wrong word, right?

00:08:48.240 It's simply not partaking in the system that we know to be broken.

00:08:50.920 Right.

00:08:51.420 Because, you know, I was talking to different people, whether it be even on your team.

00:08:54.860 Right.

00:08:55.340 And it's an idea of, oh, well, you know, my kid is like having trouble and like math

00:08:58.100 and da, da, da, da.

00:08:58.640 Kids are not cupcakes.

00:08:59.840 They're not 24 done at the same time.

00:09:01.740 They're not right.

00:09:02.620 Like I always say that.

00:09:03.620 Right.

00:09:03.820 Also, I like to make cupcakes, but it's like, but it's just simply pulling them out of the oven

00:09:07.540 and kind of doing it, you know, easy bake oven status, doing it single one-on-one.

00:09:11.440 Is that really like, do you worry about socialization at all?

00:09:14.420 I'm curious.

00:09:14.940 Cause we've got to find something to disagree with.

00:09:16.320 Cause otherwise we can't disagree with them.

00:09:18.020 Well, we're just getting started.

00:09:18.740 I got these books in and for me.

00:09:19.860 Oh God, here we go.

00:09:22.000 When I, when I first started this journey, I was starting to see serious concerns with

00:09:27.280 the public school system.

00:09:28.360 Our children were in that I had grown up in.

00:09:30.260 And after that, I was also seeing more homeschooling families flourishing and doing really, really

00:09:38.360 well.

00:09:38.980 Our kids were noticing that.

00:09:40.920 And I was noticing these homeschool groups were getting to go on more field trips, be

00:09:46.460 exposed to more experiences.

00:09:49.000 And our kids were actually asking me to homeschool and I was the resistant one in the family.

00:09:54.000 Interesting.

00:09:54.380 Because my perspective before was a very narrow perspective of what homeschooling was.

00:10:01.940 And I've learned, you know, it's, there's, I think there's a great way to do homeschooling.

00:10:09.320 And I think the perspective out there in society is one and it's narrow.

00:10:14.020 And so for our experience, you know, we started homeschooling the fall of 2019, then COVID came.

00:10:20.500 And so that impacted a lot of, you know, not just public school, but homeschoolers.

00:10:24.380 We were socializing so much before that.

00:10:26.700 And I think afterwards, we watched some people move out of state, a lot of people actually.

00:10:33.580 And then we, eventually what I did is I started a community group with a friend and we worked

00:10:41.520 to build this group of kind of a non-co-op co-op so that we would have all those additional

00:10:47.640 social experiences added in.

00:10:49.960 So we've planned all kinds of field trips and activities and working on lectures with

00:10:56.440 various leaders talking to the kids.

00:10:58.840 And so anyways, I think like anything, it's an investment.

00:11:02.940 It's what you make of it.

00:11:04.340 And that goes for whether, you know, any type of education with our kids.

00:11:09.320 Well, let's get into the meat and potatoes here.

00:11:11.000 With COVID, you ended up seeing this Zoom schooling, which resulted in many circumstances where

00:11:17.540 parents started hearing what teachers were telling their kids, which sparked a lot of

00:11:20.800 controversy.

00:11:21.580 In some circumstances, you actually had teachers saying, we can't let parents find out what

00:11:26.200 we're telling their kids.

00:11:27.100 Please don't tell me we said that.

00:11:28.660 Well, you don't have to say we.

00:11:30.400 I mean-

00:11:30.840 Well, as a teacher, I'd like to say that, but oh, I think we're better than that.

00:11:34.240 But oh, gosh.

00:11:34.820 There were a few circumstances.

00:11:37.020 And this had a lot to do with critical race theory and gender ideology and gender theory.

00:11:42.000 This was a component in what we saw happen in Loudoun County, which I think you guys

00:11:46.220 are familiar.

00:11:46.600 That's actually just across the street.

00:11:48.000 We heard, yeah.

00:11:48.380 Yeah, 20 seconds.

00:11:49.040 You get in the car, you drive for 30 seconds, you're in Loudoun County.

00:11:51.140 Right.

00:11:51.520 You drive to the school, that's like 20 minutes.

00:11:53.520 But this resulted in parents getting really, really angry.

00:11:55.800 Now, the Loudoun County situation was actually an assault, which sparked a huge bit of controversy

00:12:00.360 to the parents saying, what's going on in our schools?

00:12:01.960 What are our kids being taught?

00:12:03.400 And then you end up with these teachers showing up to these school board meetings saying, what

00:12:07.420 is this book that is teaching kids to separate based on race or to adopt these racial ideologies

00:12:14.180 or gender-based ideologies?

00:12:16.940 And they got labeled terrorists by the FBI.

00:12:19.680 So this is what was a large catalyst for what we saw in Florida with the Parental Rights

00:12:24.920 and Education Bill, as it was formerly named, and what we see now with the major push for

00:12:29.200 pod learning and homeschooling, that there is something going on in these schools that is

00:12:34.940 presenting children with inappropriate material or outright indoctrination into non-traditional

00:12:43.580 ideologies.

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00:13:42.460 Movement that inspires.

00:13:43.580 I'll be very light with it.

00:13:45.980 Now, the position I've typically taken, you know, a lot of people say, no indoctrination

00:13:48.880 in schools.

00:13:49.400 And I say, no, no, no.

00:13:49.960 We want indoctrination in schools.

00:13:51.060 We just want American indoctrination.

00:13:52.540 We want the Constitution.

00:13:54.000 We want traditional values.

00:13:56.000 Not overtly, I'm saying, more like innocent until proven guilty, free speech, these things.

00:14:01.140 And now we have this clash of two different moral frameworks, two different worldviews

00:14:05.700 where you end up with books like, we have a couple books in front of us.

00:14:08.780 This book is gay, as well as genderqueer.

00:14:11.320 And these find their ways into middle schools.

00:14:15.080 Recently, there was a teacher who was giving this book is gay to 10 and 12-year-olds, which

00:14:18.720 resulted in the police being called.

00:14:20.280 So I'll kick it off there.

00:14:21.980 And I don't know if one of you wants to start with your views on what's happening with

00:14:24.800 these books being brought in these schools and the ideologies being presented to children.

00:14:28.960 I'll start out.

00:14:29.540 So first of all, I have one question for you to maybe like address after, right?

00:14:32.520 Which is that idea of, do you ever get worried about a lack of diversity for your students

00:14:36.240 and like in a kind of pod, right?

00:14:38.720 That idea of you have a pod, you're doing the field trips.

00:14:41.620 That's amazing.

00:14:42.080 You have a parent group.

00:14:42.900 But if you get into Monterey or if you get into, for example, Marin County, I was the

00:14:46.380 only black kid in my frigging entire middle school, right?

00:14:49.260 Do you get, is there a kind of drawback to not having people that look, sound and act

00:14:54.600 different, right?

00:14:55.600 And how do you weigh that, right?

00:14:57.020 And then we got this book.

00:14:58.380 I don't even know if I can grab it past the bike or if I, let's see.

00:15:00.640 Oh, there we go.

00:15:01.440 Right?

00:15:01.720 This one.

00:15:02.440 Okay.

00:15:03.100 I have read this book.

00:15:04.700 I like this book.

00:15:06.180 It was actually sent to me.

00:15:08.300 I didn't buy it, which is actually very interesting because here's this whole indoctrination,

00:15:12.040 that idea of like, oh, you know, like LGBT, we're going to come for the kids and we're

00:15:14.860 going to make them gay.

00:15:15.580 I never bought this.

00:15:17.220 A company, which I can't say which company, saw my TikToks and are like, we love what you're

00:15:21.440 doing.

00:15:22.040 We want to send you some books that your students would love.

00:15:24.260 And they sent me this one and I read this.

00:15:26.940 My students, most of them cannot read this yet.

00:15:29.540 They cannot.

00:15:30.640 Absolutely not.

00:15:31.460 I think the book is great.

00:15:33.200 I think it's absolutely spectacular that we get a queer perspective that we usually don't

00:15:37.240 get, especially in kind of the mandated sex education.

00:15:39.840 What do we call it?

00:15:40.280 Life skills now.

00:15:41.040 But there is some graphic content in here that I could not, as a teacher, give to a

00:15:47.760 student.

00:15:48.200 How old are your students?

00:15:49.700 Real talk, actually, my students go from kindergarten all the way to 12 because I have my master's

00:15:53.260 in education, special education focused.

00:15:55.060 So I can actually teach kind of anywhere on that spectrum.

00:15:57.320 Most of them kind of fall into late middle school or middle school.

00:16:01.880 And I can't give this.

00:16:03.340 I'm not, side note, I'm not saying not any middle schooler could ever see this, but I'm

00:16:08.600 saying it would be out of the scope of my educational job to hand this to a student without

00:16:13.540 consulting parents and kind of taking into consideration individuality and where the

00:16:17.760 student is.

00:16:18.780 Now, do I think that a police officer needs to be called?

00:16:23.180 Is the teacher committing malpractice?

00:16:25.340 Not for me to decide.

00:16:26.340 I'm not the judicial branch of government, right?

00:16:28.060 I'm saying I wouldn't partake in it.

00:16:29.600 But I would love to hear your thoughts and how maybe one of your students may never actually

00:16:33.920 run into a book like this ever.

00:16:35.140 And if you're OK with that.

00:16:36.240 I would say so just background, 2015 is when the California Healthy Youth Act was proposed

00:16:43.340 in California.

00:16:44.760 That was to basically bring in comprehensive sexuality education to the state would be

00:16:51.420 required once in middle school, once in high school, with each district being able to add

00:16:55.760 on grades K through 12 to their decision.

00:16:58.180 And so for me, I started learning about this actually December 2018.

00:17:06.020 This had already been implemented.

00:17:07.980 Books like this or?

00:17:09.000 Well, comprehensive sexuality education itself has a framework to this.

00:17:15.560 But then in addition to that, there's supplemental curricula that they were using first to abide

00:17:21.680 by, in 2018, the California Healthy Youth Act law, which it became law in 2016.

00:17:27.400 And the content does, in a way, relate to the literature just because of the fact that it brought

00:17:35.780 in an update to the health framework in California.

00:17:39.560 And so through the health framework, there was a variety of books being introduced to align

00:17:44.640 with CSE.

00:17:46.400 And some of those books are what I started looking into.

00:17:50.460 And I'm going through and parents are sharing things on social media.

00:17:55.120 And I had never seen some of these books.

00:17:57.420 So looking through them, then I had to go for myself to the library to see these books for myself,

00:18:03.620 read through the health framework.

00:18:05.180 But one of the most, I would say, explicit books that I saw was called SEX,

00:18:09.980 The All-You-Need-To-Know Guide to Get You Through Your Teens and Twenties by Heather Carina.

00:18:14.180 And so I remember a parent posting about this and thinking, this can't be real,

00:18:19.080 because it was recommended originally in the health framework draft as a school-wide read

00:18:26.120 for grades 9 through 12.

00:18:28.060 Now, the health framework, it's important.

00:18:30.500 That is not required.

00:18:32.460 But teachers can use that material to their discretion, usually with accordance to their

00:18:39.000 curriculum director at school.

00:18:40.620 So at any rate, that book started discussing topics like blood play or fisting or deeper

00:18:49.040 manual sex and these various topics.

00:18:51.540 And then it said, what is it?

00:18:53.320 And then how do I do it?

00:18:54.960 And there was a long description.

00:18:56.720 Sometimes it referenced the slang terms of the sex act.

00:19:00.300 And then at the very bottom, there was a small section that said the risks.

00:19:05.300 But it was so small.

00:19:07.240 And this is in grade school?

00:19:08.640 This was originally recommended as a school-wide read for grades 9 through 12.

00:19:13.440 It's a high school.

00:19:14.240 And they did take it out of the health framework.

00:19:16.680 And as I was learning, I initially thought, OK, this is not going to be allowed in schools

00:19:22.480 because they took it out of the health framework.

00:19:24.380 But it has been used in some schools.

00:19:27.280 And the thing for me was that book, I mean, there was stuff in there I hadn't heard of.

00:19:32.740 And I just feel like there's such a window of time of childhood where, I mean, I just didn't

00:19:45.940 some of these books and the graphic visuals.

00:19:49.300 I just personally don't think it's necessary.

00:19:50.840 My view on all this, I pulled it up, SEX, Second Education.

00:19:53.900 It says on Amazon, reading age 12 years and up, grade level 7 and up.

00:19:58.020 And the first component to this is whether or not parents have the right to decide what

00:20:03.440 their children are being exposed to and when.

00:20:06.000 And there's been an interesting amount of pushback from traditional liberals and more

00:20:10.540 left ideological individuals saying, no, they're our children and we're the experts, so we

00:20:16.000 decide.

00:20:17.160 And one of the principal components of the parental rights and education bill in Florida was

00:20:21.900 specifically that parents must be informed about what's going on with their kid, what

00:20:25.220 their what their children are learning.

00:20:26.720 And then the political debate turned into don't say gay, despite the fact the bill bars people

00:20:33.380 I'm talking about straight and heterosexual couples as well.

00:20:35.860 Fascinating.

00:20:36.400 So sorry to interrupt, by the way, but it's fascinating, though.

00:20:38.600 So let's like we might as well really dive into it, though.

00:20:41.660 Then why why is like LGBTQIA simply the target of like the accusations of indoctrination?

00:20:47.880 That's what I want to know.

00:20:48.840 Right.

00:20:49.460 Because real talk, if you're like an OG queer, right, no one wants we're not trying to make

00:20:55.620 kids gay.

00:20:56.200 We don't need more kids to be trans.

00:20:57.980 One thing that I always try to do is I try to reframe, right, like reframe means that idea

00:21:02.280 of looking at somebody else's perspective.

00:21:03.940 Right.

00:21:04.380 So I look at the other side's perspective.

00:21:05.700 Parent worried, explicit sexual content.

00:21:08.920 You may be wanting to alter my child's sexuality.

00:21:11.520 You may be trying to make them kind of go through, you know, a kind of hormone replacement

00:21:15.920 therapy that may not be safe or not entirely proven.

00:21:18.620 I'm worried about it.

00:21:19.640 Therefore, I'm going to pull my kid.

00:21:20.600 I see.

00:21:21.520 I see that perspective.

00:21:22.560 I don't necessarily agree with it, but I see it.

00:21:25.140 I want to know what the opposing perspective is.

00:21:27.780 Like, what would LGBTQIA, the trans community, gay individuals, what do we get out of getting

00:21:34.240 kids to be gay or this material?

00:21:36.660 Like, I don't know.

00:21:37.260 Like, I get the accusation.

00:21:39.000 I get LGBTQIA thereafter.

00:21:40.480 They're indoctrinating.

00:21:41.960 You know, Desmond, you wear makeup in front of kids and you're going to try to like make

00:21:45.960 them all wear makeup.

00:21:46.860 Why?

00:21:47.560 Like, why would that benefit me in any way, shape or form?

00:21:50.700 Like, that's why I don't understand that accusation.

00:21:52.860 So I think I would love to hear your perspective and your perspective on like what like I get

00:21:57.440 it.

00:21:57.740 I get it.

00:21:58.340 I don't again, not saying it's a bad book.

00:22:00.500 Right.

00:22:00.920 But I'm just as protective.

00:22:02.840 That was an overreach.

00:22:03.860 I am extremely protective of kids almost as much as the parents.

00:22:07.580 Right.

00:22:07.760 Well, and I think to that for for my part, it never was about LGBTQ.

00:22:14.160 It it was just about the explicit content because and I actually.

00:22:20.700 I think that a lot of people, whatever their, you know, belief is, I think they do agree

00:22:28.580 that there's pornographic content.

00:22:31.060 Kids shouldn't be exposed to that.

00:22:32.760 But why is it so?

00:22:34.420 So for me, not about LGBT at all.

00:22:37.500 Right.

00:22:37.660 However, it's these books typically that are wading into overt graphic content.

00:22:45.480 Right.

00:22:45.940 They're being given to grade schoolers.

00:22:47.540 Right.

00:22:47.920 And these teachers are saying, don't tell the parents.

00:22:50.140 Right.

00:22:50.440 They're saying we should resist these bills that give parents access to knowledge about

00:22:54.060 the curriculum.

00:22:54.480 Right.

00:22:54.840 And then when Ron DeSantis does a press conference where he shows sexually graphic content, they

00:23:01.020 say he's banning books that he's.

00:23:02.720 And then what they do is they put on these shows where they'll have catcher in the rye

00:23:06.560 and act like that's what's being banned.

00:23:08.980 And no, the issue I see with, for instance, this book is gay.

00:23:13.380 That is not sex education.

00:23:15.340 Genderqueer is not sex education.

00:23:16.940 This is kink education.

00:23:18.460 Children, I think it's fair to say to a parent, hey, your kids are entering this age and we'd

00:23:23.820 like to discuss the birds and the bees, general reproduction and, you know, how this stuff

00:23:27.700 happens.

00:23:28.340 When I was in fifth grade at a Catholic school, they gave us permission forms.

00:23:31.580 We went to our parents.

00:23:32.160 Our parents said yes or no.

00:23:33.600 Some kids were pulled out.

00:23:35.040 Most of us, there was male sex ed.

00:23:37.560 Then the boys would go to the computer room.

00:23:38.900 The girls would come in and do female sex ed.

00:23:40.780 The funny thing with that was the boys got like two hours of game time and the girls got

00:23:44.120 like 20 minutes.

00:23:44.980 Right.

00:23:45.040 But what we're seeing with these books is this book is gay describes scat.

00:23:50.120 It teaches how to use grinder.

00:23:52.360 And this is being provided to middle schoolers.

00:23:54.800 Right.

00:23:55.200 And then what happens is when this when this teacher comes out and she gives it to our

00:23:59.100 middle schoolers, the parents call the police.

00:24:00.800 Right.

00:24:01.300 Because you cannot.

00:24:02.720 It's illegal to give children.

00:24:04.540 Yeah, absolutely.

00:24:05.480 That's not gender free speech.

00:24:07.000 We have the Supreme Court case.

00:24:08.080 What happens then is NBC News shows a picture of her holding a different book, which is about

00:24:13.480 more ideological issues and then says that she was trying to support gay rights when the

00:24:17.700 reality was parents were concerned that she was teaching 10 year olds how to use grinder.

00:24:21.220 Right.

00:24:21.360 There's no reason for that.

00:24:22.420 But well, and I sorry.

00:24:23.760 No, please go.

00:24:24.420 OK.

00:24:24.520 I think personally that I mean, with this, we've we've seen a shift from sex ed to comprehensive

00:24:32.700 sexuality education.

00:24:33.820 So for me, it took me time to understand, well, what is CSE, comprehensive sexuality education?

00:24:40.520 Where did it come from?

00:24:42.100 What's the belief system behind it?

00:24:44.260 What's driving these ideas?

00:24:45.640 And for me, being able to see where it was implemented in other countries prior to the

00:24:50.720 U.S., being able to look into the original framework was helpful to understand where it's

00:24:58.420 coming from, because, for example, in in the document, it references sexual citizenship,

00:25:05.940 which was new to me and and pleasure was a focus.

00:25:09.500 And the goal is to teach this to grades K through 12.

00:25:14.180 Even some of the groups aligned for the National Sexuality Education Standards did a presentation

00:25:21.160 where they were talking about this this concept of, you know, sexuality education.

00:25:26.760 And they really want to reach kids in the early elementary grades.

00:25:31.180 And so I think it's it's an important analysis that we pause.

00:25:36.900 And for me, it was how do I learn everything I can about this, which I'm still continuing

00:25:42.020 to research and figure it out.

00:25:43.620 But those frameworks, particularly whether it's from, you know, Planned Parenthood or the

00:25:49.980 World Health Organization with their definitions of terms, the idea that it has gone from more

00:25:56.640 of a biological safety prevention.

00:25:59.720 It's different from what I had in California and then into a completely separate thing.

00:26:06.900 For me, schools don't exist to teach sexual technique.

00:26:11.320 And I agree.

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00:27:12.820 Movement that inspires.

00:27:13.940 In this book, in its glossary of terms, it refers to Grindr as a social network app for

00:27:20.180 gay and bi men.

00:27:21.340 And so, you know, the interesting thing is there seems to be a dildo, a tribal left or

00:27:29.880 right division where you end up with people seeing this book and saying, yo, that should

00:27:35.280 not be given to 10 year olds and 12 year olds.

00:27:37.860 The parents called the police on this woman.

00:27:39.720 Absolutely.

00:27:39.960 Then we have a guest come on this show, a prominent left personality who says the book

00:27:44.300 is good and should not be banned.

00:27:47.300 It's I believe the only reason they're saying it is because they want to appear to be on

00:27:53.140 the left publicly, which is tricky, right?

00:27:55.340 Because then you also have the other side of the situation, right?

00:27:59.840 Where that idea of if I ask like pronouns or it's like, oh, like, what are your pronouns?

00:28:06.220 You're then automatically associated with supporting, like giving this to a seven year

00:28:12.060 old, which is not necessarily the case, right?

00:28:13.740 So it's that idea of, like you said, there's tribalism.

00:28:16.340 But that to me is an issue.

00:28:17.940 And I feel like there's also this kind of false comparison that's happening because we

00:28:22.100 see an uptick of LGBTQIA awareness.

00:28:25.720 And we also see an uptick of literature like this, right?

00:28:28.240 So it's like, oh, gosh, are we equating the two when really it's just we need to kind

00:28:32.960 of redraw the boundaries on what is kind of permitted for teachers to teach, what is

00:28:36.820 not permitted, what our job is, where it falls outside of the bounds, because I see it and

00:28:40.740 I understand the concern, right?

00:28:41.840 I mean, don't get it twisted.

00:28:43.200 Like I watched the show.

00:28:44.460 I saw like there was like the graph and oh, like left handedness, like that was really

00:28:48.900 interesting point, right?

00:28:50.100 Now, with that said, is it entirely would I make entirely the same argument?

00:28:54.800 Probably not.

00:28:55.500 Right.

00:28:55.660 Because it's trending a little bit.

00:28:57.180 Yeah, I said it.

00:28:57.920 Right.

00:28:58.180 But people people pointed out that the left handedness argument omits the previous centuries.

00:29:03.340 Right.

00:29:03.760 Where left handedness is very high.

00:29:05.160 There's a dip and then a recovery.

00:29:06.660 Right.

00:29:06.960 So if you just take one metric that shows it going up, you can change.

00:29:10.680 Well, I'll give you a completely different argument, which you may have not heard, which

00:29:13.620 actually gets everyone to hate me.

00:29:15.500 And being someone who's somewhat people call me centralist.

00:29:18.080 And I don't know if that's actually a thing that if I am, I just try to think of each

00:29:20.760 thing individually.

00:29:21.240 But here's kind of how I see it is that there is kind of an inherent LGBTQIA population.

00:29:26.160 That population will never go away, no matter what, in my opinion.

00:29:30.220 And yeah, I do think that kind of you look at the research, the gender studies research,

00:29:34.360 that scientifically we could delineate things like, yeah, there may be a little bit more

00:29:37.560 of a bisexual population than people care to admit.

00:29:40.140 Possibly.

00:29:40.740 Possibly.

00:29:41.380 Right.

00:29:41.600 Kinsey scale.

00:29:42.680 People may be a little bit more bi than we think.

00:29:45.120 Now people are coming out.

00:29:46.220 And then more people are coming out because they're more comfortable.

00:29:48.920 And then it trended a little bit.

00:29:50.600 And yeah, it trended a little bit.

00:29:52.380 Now for hundreds, if not thousands of years, straight was trending and people were lying

00:29:57.140 about being straight for a very long time.

00:29:58.860 Is it that bad that in the past two decades, a couple people may not be lying, but experimenting

00:30:04.460 with different titles, different sexualities, even before they understand it?

00:30:07.780 I'm kind of like playing the how big is your problem game with my kids.

00:30:10.540 I don't know if it's a huge issue that some kid is like, oh, I'm, you know, genderqueer

00:30:15.280 at the age of like 11.

00:30:16.640 It's like, do you even know what that means?

00:30:17.600 And if you do, great.

00:30:18.760 And if not, okay.

00:30:20.520 But you're not hurting anyone.

00:30:21.980 You're not hurting yourself.

00:30:22.780 Like, what would you, what do you think?

00:30:24.360 Go ahead.

00:30:25.020 No, go ahead.

00:30:25.760 I was going to say they are hurting themselves.

00:30:27.400 Yeah, tell them out.

00:30:27.900 So one of the bigger issues with pronouns and stuff and all those things is for one,

00:30:34.040 there's no logical consistency to teach.

00:30:37.120 You end up with these viral videos of this young woman on TikTok with, you know, hundreds

00:30:41.320 of thousands of views saying frog and frog self.

00:30:43.260 And it seems to just be, and, and, and the people on the left will argue that, well,

00:30:48.960 it's people exploring their self-expression and it's just like, well, there's, there's

00:30:52.380 no logic.

00:30:53.040 There's a flag for everything.

00:30:54.540 You're all, you're basically telling kids is nothing.

00:30:57.440 You're telling them chaos, static noise, no definitive understanding of what's going

00:31:02.200 on.

00:31:02.740 Perhaps an adult could understand enough about reality to explore various ideas around how

00:31:08.560 do you categorize?

00:31:09.540 But to go to a child and say an infinite number of categories every day, they're learning

00:31:14.000 something that was just made up yesterday.

00:31:15.320 They're going to have no framework for what's going on.

00:31:17.940 Well, but sorry, just to address the, the harming themselves with the laws being passed

00:31:22.720 in California, Washington, and a bunch of these other States that protect third parties

00:31:27.560 who would bring a child for gender reassignment or, or, or, or medical intervention.

00:31:32.020 We're now entering the territory where a 10 year old kid who has no understanding of what's

00:31:38.300 going on is told by an adult.

00:31:39.580 And this has happened to personal friends of mine twice.

00:31:43.020 And that seems like a heck of a lot for, for me to two people that I know had their daughters

00:31:48.940 come home with the teachers telling them that they were trans or lesbian.

00:31:53.720 And they were not, they were 10.

00:31:56.120 And when the parents explained to them, okay, let me ask you, you're, you think you're this,

00:32:01.860 do you know what this means?

00:32:03.380 And the kids go, what?

00:32:04.200 No, no, no.

00:32:05.180 Now what happens if you're in California and the parents are more susceptible to whatever

00:32:09.080 you say, honey, next thing, you know, these kids who have no idea what Lupron is or what

00:32:13.660 it means to get a puberty blockers is on a fast track for this, which has resulted in

00:32:18.920 50,000 people on Reddit joining the D trans community and an endless slew of posts of

00:32:24.120 people threatening suicide.

00:32:26.020 What we, what I see in the data.

00:32:28.020 And, uh, so if you look at the desistance rates, what is it?

00:32:31.660 The number I believe is like 68 to 95% of children who identify as transgender will desist.

00:32:36.980 That doesn't mean detransition.

00:32:38.320 It means that if left to go through their natural puberty, they end up, uh, uh, identifying

00:32:44.160 with their biological sex.

00:32:46.300 Typically they end up being either autistic or gay.

00:32:49.320 What happens now is they will just affirm whatever it is.

00:32:53.620 The kid is saying, despite the fact that the majority of these kids would self-identify

00:32:57.300 if they're allowed to go through puberty.

00:32:59.420 My concern here is you bring in young kids who don't understand what they're hearing.

00:33:04.280 You layer on books and ideas and things that are more confusing to a child than anything.

00:33:09.660 You layer on the, the social factor of Instagram likes views, et cetera.

00:33:13.980 And you end up with all of these stories of these prominent now famous D transitioners saying,

00:33:18.700 I didn't understand more horrifyingly.

00:33:21.400 You end up with these stories on D trans Reddit where we read one last night where a 17 year

00:33:25.800 old was threatening suicide because she felt manipulated into getting a double mastectomy

00:33:30.200 testosterone and it ruined her life.

00:33:32.300 And now she feels like she, she can't lead a normal life.

00:33:35.040 Well, you, you have these laws being passed that would protect a third party.

00:33:39.100 A third party can take someone's child to the state, dramatically alter their life, cause

00:33:44.660 irreversible changes and or harm and be legally protected because these kids are not equipped

00:33:49.880 to understand what they're, what they're signing up for.

00:33:52.700 My last point on this is if desistance rates truly are between 60 and 95% and suicide rates

00:34:00.420 are around 40 to 50%, the smartest and most logical thing we can do considering the majority

00:34:07.120 of these kids will identify with their biological sex, not be trans and thus experience lower rates

00:34:14.360 of suicide is not to intervene at all in any medical way for a child who's experiencing

00:34:19.740 gender dysphoria until after puberty.

00:34:22.200 If the, if, if we're looking at it from a simple probabilistic standpoint, you got to,

00:34:27.120 let's just say it's the lowest number, 60%.

00:34:29.020 You have a greater than chance probability.

00:34:31.580 Your child will just self-identify with their biological sex and thus not experience a 50,

00:34:38.980 50 suicide rate.

00:34:39.900 So it seems like the math is fairly obvious.

00:34:42.380 You transition your kid, you are boosting their suicide rate to 47%.

00:34:47.220 Well, and I was going to say, I mean, for my part, I mean, I have two friends who they

00:34:55.500 had CPS called on them.

00:34:56.920 If, if you didn't seem like you were immediately, uh, celebrating, affirming, um, yeah, CPS was

00:35:05.260 called on them.

00:35:05.880 And then this is what I'm noticing, uh, just overall is that the, the California legislature

00:35:13.320 and other places, in my opinion, are chipping away at parental responsibilities, traditional

00:35:19.820 parental responsibilities.

00:35:20.980 And this, this area is one, but I mean, in the midst of this, we do have a growing number

00:35:27.600 little by little here of young people who are detransitioning.

00:35:32.820 But the thing I have, I, I'm concerned about is that there is this messaging of celebrate,

00:35:40.820 celebrate, celebrate towards those who are making these decisions.

00:35:44.140 But the detransitioners are often humiliated, silenced, and shamed.

00:35:49.040 And to me, that is indicative of, of part.

00:35:53.720 And I don't think everybody believes that.

00:35:57.240 I think there's a lot of people that, that don't, but I think the way in which I have

00:36:01.840 seen detransitioners, uh, treated, it's, it's, it's so sad.

00:36:07.740 I don't, I don't actually, I don't actually agree with this.

00:36:10.000 However, I do a hundred percent understand where you're coming from.

00:36:13.040 And I see that logic and I understand your mathematical model.

00:36:15.600 And that statistically, I understand your point of view.

00:36:18.140 And I get that.

00:36:19.160 However, I'm going to make a comparison.

00:36:20.420 And again, cause I just love getting people to hate me.

00:36:22.800 That's just like my job.

00:36:23.720 Right.

00:36:24.160 It's like, do you remember, um, kind of like, like pre 2020 where like the classic news was

00:36:32.220 black individuals are targeted by the police and it never makes it on the news.

00:36:35.720 And that was the news story.

00:36:36.980 Like the news story itself was black people are never on the news.

00:36:40.760 That to me is the same situation where it's like the current news story is detransitioners are

00:36:46.180 never on the news, which inherently puts them on the news.

00:36:48.960 Right.

00:36:49.340 Like, you know what I mean?

00:36:50.320 Like I understand your perspective, but I've heard it so many times by the same groups of

00:36:54.320 people.

00:36:54.540 Like, well, we never pay attention to detransitioners because that amount is like infinitesimally

00:36:58.540 small.

00:36:58.920 And actually we do hear about it all the freaking time.

00:37:01.400 You just are, Oh, it's always in the context of, Oh, we never hear about detransitioners.

00:37:04.700 Yes, we do.

00:37:05.100 It's literally on the, it's like on every YouTube channel.

00:37:07.320 I hear it consistently.

00:37:09.040 And then like that other side note though, of that idea of like, well, it's always like

00:37:12.340 celebrate, celebrate, celebrate just an idea, just, just an idea that idea.

00:37:15.880 Yes.

00:37:16.080 Parents, you guys, you know, you know, your kids and you know them extremely well.

00:37:18.900 Right.

00:37:19.780 However, however, if you don't celebrate a kid's exploration into different topics, they sometimes

00:37:26.760 start pushing back without even knowing what they're pushing back against.

00:37:30.040 And that's actually what I'm more worried about that idea of, and of course I can't speak

00:37:34.020 on like specific clients.

00:37:35.040 Right.

00:37:35.460 But like, I can say I've had multiple instances where a parent has, you know, come to me and

00:37:40.860 being like, Oh, well, you know, she wants to be called he now, what do I do?

00:37:45.980 And I got to say, I say the exact opposite thing of kind of what you're going for is I

00:37:49.660 say like, go with it.

00:37:50.900 Because when you start pushing against it, they start pushing back on the parent without

00:37:54.820 even knowing what they're pushing back on.

00:37:56.300 And I've had plenty of students, plenty of students, and this is nothing, nothing against

00:38:00.820 the trans community because I'm such like, obviously right.

00:38:03.500 But I've had plenty of students who, yeah, they are genderqueer and whatever, and their

00:38:07.700 pronouns say whatever.

00:38:08.740 And I've also had plenty of students where they said, Oh yeah, I'm definitely trans.

00:38:11.880 And we were like, Oh, cool.

00:38:13.140 Okay.

00:38:13.340 They, them, he, him, she, her, whatever.

00:38:15.060 And you went with it for a couple months.

00:38:17.240 And then they realized after just leaving it with just going with it, they're like,

00:38:21.220 actually, that wasn't, that's not a thing.

00:38:22.780 This is why parents don't want it in schools.

00:38:24.240 But, but like, okay.

00:38:26.240 Okay.

00:38:27.280 But again, like how big is the problem?

00:38:29.640 It's just, I don't see it as a fundamental issue, right?

00:38:33.960 I see, of course, any teacher going outside of their realm of expertise as an issue, right?

00:38:40.220 I am a learning specialist with a master's of science in education with a focus in language

00:38:44.240 processing disorders.

00:38:45.480 I'm not an endocrinologist.

00:38:47.080 I can't say you should take this hormone.

00:38:49.400 That's out of my, that's out of my scope.

00:38:51.680 I can't say that.

00:38:52.500 That's not allowed or it shouldn't be, right?

00:38:54.580 But also that, that idea of like, is it really that bad of like, when you really care about

00:39:01.100 someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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00:39:57.900 Oh, okay, you go by she, they, and then I call my student they, and everyone on TikTok,

00:40:02.880 I can't believe you call students they, them, you're indoctrinating.

00:40:05.920 No, like, they literally asked me to call them they, them.

00:40:09.220 Like, it's just, I don't know if this indoctrination thing is real.

00:40:12.460 I do understand the statistical analysis that you gave, though.

00:40:14.640 I'd love to hear more about that.

00:40:15.600 I'd say it is, with books like Genderqueer and This Book is a Gay being in schools, and

00:40:19.820 there's a substantially, it's more than just these two books we have in front of us.

00:40:23.340 And then, of course, Critical Race Theory was the big debate a couple years ago, because

00:40:27.140 it seems like critical theory in general was being brought into schools in a variety of

00:40:32.460 ways.

00:40:33.120 So it is indoctrination.

00:40:34.580 My response to most people is, like, we want indoctrination.

00:40:39.540 We just don't want that indoctrination.

00:40:41.160 We want to teach the positive values of our moral frameworks, innocent until proven guilty,

00:40:45.860 et cetera.

00:40:46.160 Those are big components of the rights of the individual, meritocracy.

00:40:48.740 And now we have children being taught an inversion of this, and we have, in many circumstances,

00:40:54.640 the severing of the family unit in terms of don't tell your parents.

00:41:01.100 The response from liberals is, they're trying to force schools to out the children to their

00:41:06.860 parents.

00:41:07.340 Well, it's not your, you have no right.

00:41:09.700 If a child is experiencing anything, be it bulimia or some kind of gender confusion, it

00:41:17.640 is not the state's obligation nor right to intervene in that regard.

00:41:22.960 But that is what's happening.

00:41:24.240 Well, and I want to say something to that, because for a couple things with regards to

00:41:31.360 schools, I mean, we had a situation where a volunteer at a school had threatened our

00:41:39.340 oldest when he was young.

00:41:41.560 And I noticed some change in him after school.

00:41:46.020 And it wasn't, I was never told about this.

00:41:48.900 So I actually approached the school staff.

00:41:51.680 And then that's when I learned of the situation.

00:41:54.520 There was another situation with our youngest in school, where there were threats from other

00:42:00.300 students.

00:42:01.400 And so I actually, one of the times I went to the school board meeting is our youngest had

00:42:07.320 had multiple threats from a student, really descriptive, graphic threats.

00:42:13.340 And what happened was, I had been getting those notices about, you know, your child's been

00:42:19.840 exposed to lice, your child's been exposed to strep throat.

00:42:22.940 But I was never notified when our littlest had these very scary experiences at school.

00:42:29.440 Liability issues.

00:42:30.340 Yeah, it's very concerning.

00:42:32.400 But nonetheless, a false, but a false, like, they're not, they're not the same thing, right?

00:42:36.620 Like that idea of like, this is what I'm like constantly trying to get on, which is that

00:42:39.600 idea of like, they're not the same thing, like your child being threatened, you need

00:42:44.060 to tell the parent, your child is injured, you need to fill out an accident report that

00:42:48.840 actually is usually mandated.

00:42:50.860 But it's like different if it's like, oh, so and so said they want to go by they them.

00:42:54.620 Would I tell the parent?

00:42:56.480 A thousand percent, right?

00:42:58.400 But is it like, like, is it mandated?

00:43:02.300 Like, is it?

00:43:03.260 Hear me out.

00:43:04.480 Okay.

00:43:04.820 And this is like, very tricky.

00:43:06.840 If a student ever comes to me, and they're like, I go by they them, but my mom doesn't

00:43:13.360 know, or my dad doesn't know, my first thought is, there's something that needs to be repaired

00:43:21.280 within family communication.

00:43:22.840 It's not, I got to hide this kid's gender identity from the parent.

00:43:26.360 It's the idea of we need to create some type of environment where this conversation needs

00:43:30.780 to happen.

00:43:31.520 Because if I immediately, and I'm not saying this is even the case, right?

00:43:33.960 But if a teacher immediately, like you said, like, outs a kid, right?

00:43:37.200 That could create a problematic situation.

00:43:39.320 In fact, it could be creating a situation where it's indoctrination to be straight and

00:43:43.940 cisgendered, right?

00:43:44.820 Which is actually much more indoctrinating, usually that way, right?

00:43:48.180 Like, on average, most Disney movies, despite like new recent developments, most Disney movies

00:43:53.560 kind of perpetuate that kind of what we consider the fancy word is like heteronormative, right?

00:43:58.540 Heteronormative, cisgendered ideologies.

00:44:00.600 And do we need to kind of perpetuate that as the norm?

00:44:03.000 I love that idea of like, you know, we want to indoctrinate innocent until proven guilty.

00:44:07.820 But does that translate to straight until proven gay?

00:44:11.300 Like, those are two very different things, in my opinion.

00:44:13.320 Well, don't do any of it.

00:44:14.300 Yeah.

00:44:14.640 And I think, yeah, sorry.

00:44:16.320 I was going to say, I think for my part, it is a fair comparison, only in the sense of

00:44:21.300 parents are being notified less and less of all kinds of things.

00:44:24.520 And I think, too, I just want to, to the point earlier, with regards to, you know, the stories

00:44:32.720 in the news, it's not so much the news stories, it's the organizations that promote certain

00:44:38.240 things.

00:44:38.900 I don't see any of those organizations supporting detransitioners.

00:44:43.040 And I think that, to me, starts to make me question, what's going on?

00:44:48.440 What, why, why is it they, they only celebrate, but those who experience regret feel like they're

00:44:54.080 oftentimes alone.

00:44:55.400 And I feel like everyone should be able to get behind those people, because I think they,

00:45:01.260 they need love and support.

00:45:02.420 You know, well, I think we agree on that.

00:45:05.340 Well, yeah, go ahead.

00:45:06.540 So I, I can give us, we have an example here from the Daily Mail.

00:45:09.980 This is from February.

00:45:10.980 New York teacher manipulated fifth grade student into changing gender without parents' consent,

00:45:14.960 which drove her to consider suicide lawsuit claims.

00:45:17.920 The response you typically get from people on the left is, it's an anecdote, it's one story,

00:45:23.400 to which my, my response is, then why not just when Ben Shapiro comes out and says,

00:45:27.580 this is bad, you go, you are so right, Ben Shapiro.

00:45:29.600 I'm so sorry this happened.

00:45:30.460 Instead, the response you get is dismissal, saying, no, you're wrong.

00:45:35.320 No, this doesn't matter, which then you, you basically have overt support from the political

00:45:42.220 left in this country of things like this when they dismiss or defend it.

00:45:46.180 Okay.

00:45:46.620 Okay.

00:45:47.300 Two questions.

00:45:48.300 And I'm not even saying that I'm right on this.

00:45:50.180 I want to know if the teacher was gay.

00:45:52.120 No, they weren't.

00:45:53.580 The New York teacher that supported wasn't gay, right?

00:45:56.420 The teacher was, according to the lawsuit and photographs.

00:45:59.240 They're not gay, I bet.

00:46:00.400 Reading LGBT books to children and encouraging them to try being gay, even if they were not.

00:46:06.140 Okay.

00:46:06.980 Is the teacher gay?

00:46:08.320 I don't believe the teacher is gay.

00:46:09.100 I don't think so either, because no one actually gay would ever say that.

00:46:12.620 Like, no one.

00:46:13.620 Well, to be fair, we don't know.

00:46:14.560 We don't, actually.

00:46:15.400 And that was a complete kind of.

00:46:16.500 She does have blue hair.

00:46:17.200 I know, right?

00:46:18.340 And I'm so sick of like, oh my God, if you have colored hair, you're gay.

00:46:20.540 I'm so sick of that, right?

00:46:21.940 But like that idea of like, I don't think actually LGBTQ is trying to indoctrinate anyone.

00:46:26.960 I know that word gets tossed around, but like, we're not coming for your kids.

00:46:30.560 Like, drag queens aren't coming for your kids.

00:46:32.740 Drag queens aren't trying to make your kids trans.

00:46:35.300 Drag queens and trans people aren't even in the same freaking category.

00:46:38.540 One's a performance and the other is a gender identity.

00:46:40.740 Well, not anymore.

00:46:42.140 Actually, no, no.

00:46:43.180 Right?

00:46:43.680 But here, oh, sorry.

00:46:44.380 You are correct.

00:46:45.180 But now you're seeing the blur and the blend where we actually had a debate between two

00:46:49.300 drag queens and one of the drag queens says that they are trans.

00:46:51.300 Which is so interesting to me.

00:46:54.000 There's no rules.

00:46:54.820 There's no rules, right?

00:46:56.020 But hear me out.

00:46:56.840 There is some logic that we can stick to, right?

00:47:00.100 There's some logic that we can stick to.

00:47:01.260 Logic that I had been canceled for before and I will be canceled again, right?

00:47:05.300 Blue, blue self, alligator, alligator self.

00:47:07.820 I will call you whatever the hell you want.

00:47:09.860 I don't care, right?

00:47:11.620 Pronouns replace-

00:47:12.060 What if a white kid says they want to be called black?

00:47:13.640 Okay, great question.

00:47:15.380 Fantastic question.

00:47:17.100 I'll address the first point and then we'll get to that point.

00:47:18.880 And I love that question.

00:47:20.180 That idea of I will call you whatever the heck you want, but a pronoun replaces a noun,

00:47:25.280 right?

00:47:25.860 Cat, cat, self is not a pronoun.

00:47:27.580 It doesn't replace a noun.

00:47:28.580 It is a noun, right?

00:47:30.040 So that's not a pronoun.

00:47:31.280 Your pronouns are not cat, cat, self.

00:47:32.780 You may want to be called cat, cat, self.

00:47:35.000 And that's fine with me.

00:47:35.780 I'll call you whatever the heck you want.

00:47:36.880 But that's not a pronoun.

00:47:38.140 So that's where I draw the line as an educator, right?

00:47:40.080 Pronouns are he, him, they, them, it, it.

00:47:41.440 It's like all of that stuff, right?

00:47:42.580 And those should be valued, but I don't think we should also be like, well, I'm not going

00:47:44.880 to call you cat.

00:47:45.640 It's like, oh, what if they want to be called cat?

00:47:47.480 Now to that idea of like race, right?

00:47:51.220 Such a good question.

00:47:52.040 I would love to hear your thoughts on this, right?

00:47:53.860 Now here is where I differentiate the two.

00:47:56.360 Being a gender studies major, right?

00:47:57.880 Which people have different ideas of.

00:47:58.980 One of my biggest fascinations, both having my master's of science and bachelor's in gender studies

00:48:02.660 is where is the line between a biological difference and a social difference between

00:48:07.160 men and women on a biological level, right?

00:48:09.600 Where is, where's the line, right?

00:48:11.120 Where do we go?

00:48:11.680 Boys will be boys.

00:48:12.540 And where do we go?

00:48:13.500 Oh, that actually is just societally.

00:48:15.160 Okay.

00:48:15.440 And it has nothing to do with biology.

00:48:17.100 So here's the thing.

00:48:17.960 There are biological differences between men and women, right?

00:48:20.940 I was featured in like, what is a woman?

00:48:22.520 And I was like called out in that movie and I never even got cut to point.

00:48:25.820 But like someone could ask me like, what is a woman?

00:48:27.460 It depends on the context you're asking me.

00:48:29.080 Are you asking me in a scientific context?

00:48:31.000 XX chromosome.

00:48:31.860 Are you asking me in a social context?

00:48:33.340 Self-identifying, like saying, oh, what is an athlete?

00:48:35.840 Self-identifying.

00:48:36.820 But here's where it gets tricky.

00:48:39.020 We know that there are biological differences between men and women.

00:48:41.260 For example, women, oxytocin, better at communicating.

00:48:44.460 Better kind of empathy.

00:48:45.680 We have the chemicals to prove it.

00:48:47.760 I have always identified with that ability, right?

00:48:50.860 With that ability.

00:48:51.460 I think it comes naturally to me.

00:48:52.760 Hence the title non-binary, right?

00:48:54.500 I identify with a biological trait that is usually kind of seen in women.

00:48:58.580 Therefore, I call myself non-binary to help some people make that connection.

00:49:02.980 Now, if you say, well, a white kid wants to be called black.

00:49:05.540 What exactly are you identifying with that is black?

00:49:08.800 Because by definition, if you think that black people act a certain way or do things

00:49:13.400 in a certain way, that's racism.

00:49:15.120 There's nothing different between white and black other than skin tone.

00:49:17.560 There are biological differences between men and women.

00:49:19.840 There are not biological differences between white and black other than melanin, right?

00:49:23.380 That's why if a white kid said, I want to be black, I'd be like, what's your black

00:49:26.860 experience that you're experiencing?

00:49:28.540 If you will.

00:49:29.120 Yes, tell.

00:49:29.600 Well, I'll push back a little bit.

00:49:30.480 I want to hear this.

00:49:31.660 There are obvious biological differences between white and black beyond just melanin.

00:49:35.920 OK, we've got some muscle differences, height differences.

00:49:37.480 I got you.

00:49:37.820 Well, yeah, and I don't think the color of the skin or the race, it matters that much.

00:49:43.620 But obviously, sickle cell affects the black population more so.

00:49:46.640 But then the issue we've talked about is quite a bit.

00:49:49.260 One of the arguments being made by gender ideologues is that we used to have racial segregation

00:49:54.920 in this country.

00:49:55.940 And what was the argument for having black bathrooms and white bathrooms?

00:49:59.160 There was a bit of a just moralistic, non-scientific view of what was supposed to be.

00:50:07.980 Right.

00:50:08.340 But then there were also arguments presented by people who were trying to justify why we

00:50:12.080 had racial segregation, saying things like the danger, you know, black people are different

00:50:16.300 in this way and that there's risk.

00:50:17.760 But the reality is you get a black man from Somalia and a black man from Haiti, and they're

00:50:21.340 very, very, very different.

00:50:22.740 And then the only discernible characteristic is the color of their skin, which doesn't seem

00:50:25.780 to actually help identify anything.

00:50:27.780 Thank you.

00:50:28.720 Exactly.

00:50:29.240 Right.

00:50:29.400 Like my black experience being kind of 51% Italian, but still identifying as black is

00:50:33.020 very different than somebody else's black experience.

00:50:34.740 So a thousand percent.

00:50:35.600 I have nothing to push back against when it comes to that because gender, gender segregation.

00:50:40.520 Yeah.

00:50:40.960 Everywhere you go in the world, you find almost the exact same biological differences between

00:50:45.620 men and women.

00:50:46.140 OK, right.

00:50:46.880 And which is why, which is why inherently, if you find biological differences between men and

00:50:52.480 women, but on the circumstances where you have somebody that is assigned male at birth

00:50:56.140 that identifies more with female traits or a female assigned at birth individual that kind

00:51:00.000 of identifies more with male traits.

00:51:01.160 We have a biological category, not utter chaos, that we can kind of make a distinction from.

00:51:07.580 Oh, you are biologically this, but tend to have these characteristics, therefore trans,

00:51:12.720 therefore non-binary.

00:51:13.800 We don't have that with the black population.

00:51:15.460 But when it comes to gender stuff, why then surgery?

00:51:19.220 If gender is social, why do you need to medically or surgically affirm it?

00:51:22.960 Do you want to take that one?

00:51:23.940 Because that is such a good question.

00:51:25.680 Well, yeah.

00:51:26.460 And I was going to ask, actually, with regards to sports and stuff, if there's this known

00:51:33.420 biological difference, which I believe there is, having sports competitions be changed

00:51:39.940 or, you know, the prison system and all of these different things.

00:51:43.960 Well, that's like, but again, oh gosh, where do I even want to go with that?

00:51:46.780 But like the idea of like the trans athlete in sport, I got to say, like, I'm so like

00:51:50.480 sick of that one, right?

00:51:51.400 Because it's like such a niche issue that like no one should really care about.

00:51:54.480 And yet everyone cares about it so much.

00:51:55.600 People's careers are being damaged.

00:51:56.440 That's valid.

00:51:57.160 That's valid.

00:51:57.640 But it's such like a specific, it's so specific to the point where it's like, oh, it's

00:52:02.380 so constantly being blown out of proportion when I feel like there are larger issues.

00:52:05.220 But that idea of like, why surgery, right?

00:52:07.200 And it's very interesting to kind of look at the different kind of LGBTQIA perspectives,

00:52:10.680 that idea of to be trans, you don't need affirming surgery, but that same idea of it

00:52:14.960 should be accessible.

00:52:16.220 And it should be.

00:52:17.920 But what are the processes that we need to go through to make sure gender affirming care

00:52:23.020 is beneficial?

00:52:24.200 What guardrails do we need to put in play?

00:52:26.140 I don't think banning it outright is a good situation.

00:52:29.320 I don't think declaring, oh, and again, this kind of goes into kind of reverse of your opinion,

00:52:34.240 that idea of like, wait for them to go through puberty entirely.

00:52:36.300 That could be really, really kind of mentally draining for somebody who's trans, right?

00:52:42.280 That needs to go through puberty.

00:52:44.680 Yeah, tell me.

00:52:44.960 There's no argument against, I do not believe that there is any logical argument against

00:52:49.620 what I said.

00:52:50.220 If desistance rates are studied, found to be between 60 and 90.

00:52:54.420 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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00:53:03.420 our clients that we really care about you.

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00:53:53.960 55%, then all you are doing by transitioning a minor is risking their suicide.

00:53:59.240 Okay, so hear me out.

00:54:00.300 Desistance rates, first of all, those studies are, have you seen those, have you seen those

00:54:04.240 studies?

00:54:05.020 They're a mess.

00:54:06.140 Like those, those are like the smallest sample sizes with the most isolated geographic locations

00:54:10.640 that I have ever seen in studies.

00:54:11.900 Like those are ridiculously biased.

00:54:13.820 I'm not saying you're wrong because I can't, I can't prove otherwise, right?

00:54:16.520 But my only response is the left and the right both point to each other's studies and say

00:54:20.340 they're wrong.

00:54:20.700 They're saying they're wrong.

00:54:21.480 Absolutely.

00:54:21.940 And a thousand percent, I could say like the left and the right.

00:54:24.140 And I don't even, I know it sounds crazy because like the way I look and the way I talk, but

00:54:26.980 like, I don't even say if I'm on the left or right, technically, because I'm a teacher

00:54:29.920 and I don't think I should bring my political opinion to the classroom and since I'm a media

00:54:32.300 figure, I don't think I should disseminate that information.

00:54:34.420 But with that said, right?

00:54:36.000 Like that idea of like, okay, well, it's tricky.

00:54:39.440 Okay, personal example.

00:54:40.440 But if the only data we have shows desistance rates to be this high, there is no medical

00:54:46.260 or scientific argument for transitioning minors.

00:54:48.440 Okay, hear me out.

00:54:49.220 Hear me out.

00:54:49.740 Okay, here's a question and I'll ask both of you this, right?

00:54:52.560 Because as you know, right outside of San Francisco, very progressive family, despite

00:54:57.220 of course, having the social pressures of society.

00:54:59.900 I did not start dance until the fourth grade because I thought dancing was for girls and I

00:55:05.860 didn't want to do something that was for girls.

00:55:07.460 I did every single sport.

00:55:08.360 I tried to be a boy so hard, right?

00:55:10.420 And I, you know, I had two moms and I got my nails painted and I went to preschool and

00:55:14.200 you're not allowed to wear pink nails and I got them taken off, right?

00:55:17.000 I can't wear nail polish anymore, mom.

00:55:18.760 But here's the deal.

00:55:19.740 I did have progressive parents.

00:55:21.260 I did start growing facial hair when I was like 12, right?

00:55:24.620 And that did not work for me.

00:55:27.380 It did not work.

00:55:28.420 I don't identify as trans.

00:55:29.660 I identify as non-binary.

00:55:31.120 Facial hair, you look great, by the way.

00:55:32.700 Facial hair did not work for me.

00:55:34.540 It did not work to the point where I could not shave.

00:55:39.440 Like, and I know that sounds weird, but that idea of not only was facial hair wrong, but

00:55:43.880 needing to deal with facial hair was inherently problematic.

00:55:47.820 My mom had to shave for me.

00:55:49.700 Yes, I just said that on the live podcast.

00:55:51.080 You said you had two moms?

00:55:51.900 I do.

00:55:52.360 They were separated, right?

00:55:53.540 And that's actually, and yeah, really good question that we can go into there because

00:55:56.400 then a lot of people like, well, they indoctrinated you.

00:55:58.240 No, they didn't.

00:55:58.820 But like, here's the deal.

00:56:00.240 That idea of, hear me out.

00:56:02.400 One actually had to shave for me because I was so against, I was so against shaving.

00:56:07.300 And did I get laser hair removal on my face at the age of like 15, 16, a thousand percent.

00:56:12.880 And did that make high school and college a lot easier for me?

00:56:16.380 A thousand percent.

00:56:17.660 And that's a medical intervention that I did at a very young age, but it worked for me.

00:56:23.060 And I actually, in a way, it supports both of our arguments.

00:56:26.420 Well, I don't think removing hair is comparable to sterilization.

00:56:30.260 Well, absolutely.

00:56:31.540 Right.

00:56:32.520 But in a way, part of it is, but at the same time, not to the extremity.

00:56:37.280 And I will respect that actual analysis that you just gave, right?

00:56:40.020 But that idea of like, but it's crazy, right?

00:56:42.540 It's crazy to me, like to kind of go back off that, like, oh, you had two moms, right?

00:56:46.840 That idea of like, oh, people think that I was somehow indoctrinated by LGBTQ, that I

00:56:51.000 was indoctrinated by, you know, my mom's, but I was indoctrinated by the Bay Area.

00:56:55.140 It's not the case.

00:56:55.980 If anything, if you talk to any queer or trans person, other than the people that desist,

00:57:00.520 you got to remember those people.

00:57:02.220 But a majority of us, we fought against feeling this way and acting this way for a very long

00:57:08.880 time.

00:57:09.480 Like, we didn't just go like, oh, you know, it'd be kind of fun to wear pink eyeshadow

00:57:15.240 every day.

00:57:15.820 That seems like a good idea.

00:57:17.280 But that's a social choice.

00:57:18.700 That is a social choice.

00:57:19.640 Yeah.

00:57:19.940 I mean, you don't have to wear makeup.

00:57:21.040 Right.

00:57:21.260 But right.

00:57:21.840 But it's a social choice that I had the right to make.

00:57:24.120 Right.

00:57:24.340 And do we take that right away from kids?

00:57:26.960 If if your son comes to you one day after, you know, getting one of these books being

00:57:32.780 like, oh, mom, I want to try out eyeshadow, I think it'd be kind of interesting to experiment

00:57:36.220 with that.

00:57:37.020 My guess is you'd get would there be a little bit of pushback from you there?

00:57:40.360 And if so, why?

00:57:41.160 I think, I mean, I think, I mean, for me, could you wear the eyeshadow?

00:57:47.580 No, no, I really think with regards to these topics, with regards to all of this, we have

00:57:58.080 a situation where I do think there's a variety of conflicting worldviews.

00:58:04.540 But I don't think that comparing, I mean, for my part, I don't think there's any comparison

00:58:10.320 of, you know, facial hair removal to, I mean, I had only learned really probably maybe not

00:58:17.720 even a year ago that the medications that are referred to as puberty blockers are oftentimes

00:58:23.360 prostate cancer drugs.

00:58:25.020 I didn't know that.

00:58:26.180 Or used to chemically castrate sex offenders.

00:58:28.300 Right.

00:58:28.620 I didn't know that.

00:58:29.700 And not only that, but the surgeries.

00:58:32.260 So the surgeries, like a double mastectomy or some of these various surgeries, have serious,

00:58:38.540 serious consequences.

00:58:41.080 And I think that, you know, obviously the drugs do as well.

00:58:44.440 These are things that are highly, highly concerning in regards to all of the side effects.

00:58:52.740 And, you know, I think medicine, it really makes me wonder why.

00:58:58.220 Why would they be doing it?

00:58:59.860 But also, you know, just the overall health factor, you know, there was a whole movement

00:59:04.540 that probably still exists where people were saying that people shouldn't have the right

00:59:10.640 to have their child, their male child circumcised.

00:59:15.620 And that was because, again, it was a medical intervention.

00:59:19.000 And now today we're in this other place where, you know, a double mastectomy could be given

00:59:24.660 to a 15-year-old or a young child.

00:59:27.080 How often does that happen though, right?

00:59:29.320 And then to conflate, right?

00:59:30.860 And again, nothing against, because I actually am adoring this conversation, but to conflate

00:59:35.000 the idea of like there being this like assault on parental rights with that like couple

00:59:40.960 mastectomies that have happened, right?

00:59:42.640 Like it just doesn't, let's take a look.

00:59:44.380 Like I would love to see, because I just, I think we're thinking there's like an assault

00:59:48.960 on children that just isn't real, right?

00:59:52.160 Like, let's see, top surgeries, we got, these are pretty, that's it.

00:59:56.940 I mean, come on.

00:59:57.920 That's like, we're not even at a thousand.

00:59:59.880 That's not a lot of people.

01:00:00.780 But you understand the issue is when someone sees one photo of a teenage girl getting a

01:00:05.620 double mastectomy.

01:00:06.520 Right.

01:00:06.760 And we say, hey, maybe we shouldn't do that.

01:00:08.300 The immediate response on the left is, oh, it doesn't matter at all.

01:00:10.400 Okay.

01:00:10.620 Well, I want to say something to that because I think there's often this, and this was mentioned

01:00:17.080 with the sports, it's just so small.

01:00:19.560 It's just so small.

01:00:20.600 But often it is those things that are small that are just simply a beginning.

01:00:25.020 And I also think that for those, however many people, for those people, I can't just look

01:00:34.060 at that and go, that's just small.

01:00:36.400 I value each and every one of them.

01:00:39.100 And I think it's worth noting and looking at, this is why, you know, when somebody detransitions,

01:00:44.400 I think those people need to be supported.

01:00:46.260 I want another percentage of those 282 people that regret it.

01:00:49.900 I want, I will come, we will be back in 10 years to look at that same 282 people from

01:00:54.060 2022 or 20, yeah, 21 and see what percent kind of, right?

01:00:59.020 Now, hormone therapy, that's a whole other story because there's a lot of medical interventions

01:01:01.760 there.

01:01:02.120 But with the like double mastectomy idea, like thousands, right?

01:01:06.580 I'll go out and say it, which of course gets a whole bunch of people like totally pissed

01:01:09.560 at me.

01:01:10.120 Should you wait for a double mastectomy until you're an adult, in my opinion?

01:01:14.460 Yeah, you should.

01:01:15.000 Yeah, I said it and I'm gay.

01:01:16.300 Oh my God.

01:01:16.900 Right.

01:01:17.440 But right.

01:01:18.760 There are circumstances where it seems to have a positive outlook.

01:01:21.720 I don't think hormone blockers are as terrible as people make it out to be.

01:01:25.260 I think that we need to leave it to the endocrinologist.

01:01:27.720 I just, I don't think we should be kind of swerving our lane.

01:01:30.700 The doctors have come out and said that it is a positive intervention.

01:01:35.040 I wouldn't be supporting it.

01:01:36.320 If doctors have not been like consistently, we have seen positive results.

01:01:39.660 I just want to get a little communist here and say, I don't trust the massive multinational

01:01:44.880 corporate medicine industry in the United States at all.

01:01:48.060 That's fair.

01:01:48.460 So doctors who come out and say, yes, the insurance companies are paying us, insert treatment.

01:01:53.260 I'm like, I don't trust these people.

01:01:54.380 Well, and I want to say too, I mean, there's been real issues in the US of medical malpractice.

01:02:01.220 Every job field has corruption.

01:02:03.580 Every job field has compromise.

01:02:05.640 And I think too, it can be easy for people, you know, we're not getting into different

01:02:11.420 politics, but it can be easy for people to follow either what they're told to do or what

01:02:17.300 their money coming in is telling them they have to do.

01:02:19.880 But medical malpractice against minority populations that are at risk for being discriminated against,

01:02:25.600 not in favor of, right?

01:02:27.980 That idea of if you look at the medical malpractices that have been perpetuated by big pharma and

01:02:32.680 multiple situations, they're always against minority populations.

01:02:35.980 It's always against the black communities or the queer communities.

01:02:37.900 Which is what we're arguing.

01:02:38.940 No, for this one, we're arguing for, okay, so, and which is so, and that is, I think the

01:02:43.380 thing that we're missing that like, I think is like the most nuanced thing about this conversation

01:02:47.000 is in the end, even though there's like opposing views, we actually, everyone in this room cares

01:02:52.640 about those 4,231 people, right?

01:02:55.200 We just care about them in different ways.

01:02:56.420 And we think that, um, we think that we know what's best for them and that's tricky.

01:03:02.680 Right?

01:03:03.140 Because who really knows best for those 282 double mastectomy kind of individuals?

01:03:07.780 Who really knows best for those 4,200?

01:03:10.460 Can't see that last number.

01:03:11.540 Well, look, they're, they're a child suffering from anorexia.

01:03:15.240 We don't affirm.

01:03:16.060 Right, right.

01:03:17.040 Okay.

01:03:17.360 Because it's actually damaging in the long run.

01:03:19.400 Mastectomies are damaging in the long run.

01:03:20.080 And like you said, and then I could see how you kind of trace that, right?

01:03:22.700 Because you go, we intervene because of anorexia.

01:03:24.900 And then we trace that you intervene because being trans leads to a higher suicide rate.

01:03:29.020 So we need to intervene to stop it from happening.

01:03:30.900 But in my opinion, you don't stop a trans individual from being trans.

01:03:35.040 They're just trans.

01:03:36.680 Like you can't just stop someone from being trans.

01:03:39.740 They're going to be trans no matter what.

01:03:41.360 All I can say is when you look up the studies that we have, right?

01:03:45.080 Dissistance rates are greater than the majority.

01:03:47.520 Okay.

01:03:47.980 And so there's, I just, you can make the argument that you don't trust the studies.

01:03:51.880 And absolutely, that's fine.

01:03:53.080 There's a lot of studies people don't trust.

01:03:54.140 Well, no, because that's somewhat of a shallow argument being like, well, your studies aren't

01:03:56.720 right, but no, because your studies are valid.

01:03:58.000 Then how is there any response to, if we went with the higher number of 95%, you are

01:04:02.880 effectively condemning children to high rates of suicide by affirming something they don't

01:04:06.700 understand if they have a 90 plus percent chance of just identifying with their biological

01:04:11.160 sex by age 14 or 15.

01:04:13.540 Well, again, I'm chatty, so I want to know your opinion.

01:04:16.940 But then I, what I would.

01:04:17.840 And I know I'll add to it too.

01:04:19.240 If the response is, oh, it's only a few thousand people are going home with therapy.

01:04:23.220 Literally.

01:04:23.480 It's only a couple hundred girls per year who are getting double mastectomies.

01:04:27.280 You also have these D trans stories, 50,000 members on the D trans Reddit.

01:04:32.160 And the posts are saddening and horrifying.

01:04:35.180 The post we read last night was from a 17 year old who said that where her mother didn't

01:04:40.460 protect her.

01:04:41.260 Okay.

01:04:41.700 Question.

01:04:42.260 17 year old trans guy or female who got a double mastectomy.

01:04:45.640 And so, but sorry.

01:04:46.620 So trans was a trans guy identifies as female now.

01:04:50.400 Right.

01:04:50.520 Okay.

01:04:50.700 So hear me out.

01:04:51.540 And this is a question that I actually want to post to you guys.

01:04:53.880 Right.

01:04:54.680 And like really consider.

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01:05:54.000 Movement that inspires.

01:05:56.000 I feel like your concerns are valid and I think that they come from good places and

01:06:03.260 I think that basically what I've read about this and also what I've kind of heard about

01:06:06.900 you, I feel like there's like a misconception.

01:06:08.980 We care.

01:06:09.740 We care in this room.

01:06:11.100 Do you think we're making a certain person or group of people in this situation the bad

01:06:15.700 guy, right?

01:06:16.640 Because it's always framed, in my opinion, it's always framed in the same way.

01:06:20.920 Just like how it was always, it's the black people that are going to come after the white

01:06:26.020 people so we need to separate the bathrooms.

01:06:28.100 And I hear the same, they're coming after the girls, right?

01:06:31.780 That's always, right?

01:06:33.100 And always these trans conversations.

01:06:34.420 It's always that idea of they're going to try to take the girls and make them guys and

01:06:39.300 they're going to regret it.

01:06:40.380 The guys are going to try to go into the women's bathroom.

01:06:43.300 And it always turns like the girls into this like, kind of like this kind of victim, right?

01:06:49.720 Like this victim mentality, like not mentality, but this victim mindset of like, we need to

01:06:53.040 protect the women and the girls from the gays because they're trying to go after them.

01:06:56.780 And it's so ludicrous in my opinion.

01:06:58.800 I don't think that's true.

01:06:59.680 No, I don't think it's true for you at all.

01:07:01.680 But I think the general population.

01:07:03.360 I don't see that in any of the arguments.

01:07:04.980 You don't see that?

01:07:05.620 Okay.

01:07:05.960 No, it's male and female.

01:07:06.940 I mean, you've got...

01:07:07.380 I see it really one-sided, but I respect your opinion, of course.

01:07:09.480 I mean, Jazz Jennings was male.

01:07:11.240 Right.

01:07:11.640 Is male.

01:07:12.280 Right.

01:07:12.640 And so a lot of these stories are male to female, female to male.

01:07:15.920 I understand that.

01:07:16.380 I think the data shows that the majority of trans youth are female to male.

01:07:21.060 And so that was the rapid onset gender dysphoria argument.

01:07:24.120 I also want to add that as far as erosion of parental rights and responsibilities, you

01:07:31.300 know, in Washington state, we've seen where 12-year-olds can make these decisions to start

01:07:37.660 these therapies without the barrier of parental permission.

01:07:41.480 And California is moving really in that direction.

01:07:45.380 And then with the application of these school-based health centers through the WISC model, the whole

01:07:49.860 school, whole community, whole child, to implement school health clinics on school campuses where

01:07:56.240 that can...

01:07:57.740 I mean, there's already at least one school.

01:07:59.720 There was a story, I think, in Fox News, perhaps, but that was recent where they were

01:08:04.720 talking about, I think it was Nova High School, where this was already being administered.

01:08:09.280 And so the idea of automatic assumption, almost, that parents are not to be trusted.

01:08:15.520 I mean, a lot of CSC material, you can review it, and there's a small segment that does say

01:08:21.460 talk to your parents.

01:08:22.480 Sometimes there's even a, you know, a section that has them go home and discuss things with

01:08:27.520 their parents.

01:08:28.120 But by and large, the message is talk to a trusted adult, talk to a librarian.

01:08:33.160 And it really does, the majority of the conversation is this message of don't trust the parents.

01:08:38.380 Yeah, if we get to a place in California, and if that spreads nationwide, as California

01:08:44.540 goes, so goes the nation, then we will have an erosion of parental involvement in the decisions

01:08:51.200 of health care needs of children.

01:08:53.060 So I'll bring this to a modern contextual story.

01:08:56.720 There's a man in Texas who has a son.

01:08:59.260 His son, he says, is not trans.

01:09:01.620 The mother says the son is trans.

01:09:03.400 She has taken the child to California, where she is now given gender-affirming sanctuary.

01:09:09.440 What if he's wrong?

01:09:10.600 What if this woman is suffering Munchausen's by proxy?

01:09:13.020 What if the father is right?

01:09:14.380 The obvious answer is non-intervention for the safety of the child.

01:09:18.560 However, what's happening is the courts are going the other direction.

01:09:21.180 If desistance rates are 60, 95%, and the mother has taken the child to California, and

01:09:25.400 the child does undergo transition, there is a greater than chance percentage that child

01:09:29.680 will suffer because of it.

01:09:31.260 And the law protects her.

01:09:32.360 Okay, but here's where I feel like, in my opinion, and this is like a bold claim because

01:09:37.180 you are well-read and well-studied, but I do question if you're misinterpreting these

01:09:43.480 studies because the child is trans, so they're already at-

01:09:47.260 We don't know that.

01:09:47.880 No, but we do.

01:09:49.160 It's like, we do, because the child is saying it.

01:09:51.860 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:09:52.720 The child is not-

01:09:53.400 In this circumstance-

01:09:54.460 Okay, so the mom says yes, dad says no.

01:09:56.140 There's a video of the kid saying, I don't want to do this.

01:09:59.060 Oh, well then, no, that's a bad idea.

01:10:00.700 So it's okay.

01:10:01.040 The kid's five, seven, five, between five, I think this started when the kid was three.

01:10:05.260 No, okay, so boom.

01:10:06.100 When Mario Lopez came out and said three-year-olds cannot determine their gender, he had to

01:10:11.120 come out and apologize for saying that.

01:10:12.620 Because in a way, gender isn't fully understood, but in that case, we need to allow kids to

01:10:17.560 experiment with different things, in my opinion.

01:10:19.720 But that idea of, I know so many circumstances where the mom is supportive of a trans kid

01:10:24.500 and the dad isn't.

01:10:26.140 And if the kid is saying they're trans, then they're trans, and then they're already at

01:10:30.260 risk.

01:10:30.540 But what if they're just confused?

01:10:31.920 Well, what do you mean confused?

01:10:34.160 Let me ask you a question.

01:10:36.060 Going back to the makeup point.

01:10:37.200 Yeah.

01:10:37.740 You choose to wear makeup.

01:10:38.860 This is true.

01:10:39.540 Why don't you choose to wear a jester cap?

01:10:42.100 Okay.

01:10:43.220 I find, this is, I like this line of questioning.

01:10:46.320 I choose to wear makeup because this is how I'm comfortable, and I don't choose any other

01:10:51.200 type of visual kind of stimuli because this is the look that kind of represents who I am.

01:10:56.900 So if children want to wear makeup, do we ask the question, why aren't the children

01:11:00.060 choosing to dress up like bananas instead?

01:11:01.820 That's a great question.

01:11:03.120 And, here's where I go.

01:11:04.960 Well, the answer is fairly obvious.

01:11:05.900 Well, I don't know, actually, because for me, if my student wants to go to school dressed

01:11:10.160 up as a banana.

01:11:10.980 But they don't.

01:11:11.540 But if they want to, they can.

01:11:13.520 Right.

01:11:13.720 So the issue is social imitation, mimicry, and indoctrination.

01:11:17.860 Oh, okay.

01:11:18.680 Now I see where you're going with this.

01:11:19.780 Okay.

01:11:20.420 Okay.

01:11:20.820 We, children adopt behaviors they only can typically acquire from other people.

01:11:25.540 A thousand percent.

01:11:25.980 Okay.

01:11:26.200 There is creativity.

01:11:27.500 I would say, typically, you find deviations around 20% in most things.

01:11:31.700 It's funny.

01:11:32.100 It works with electrons.

01:11:32.860 It works with people.

01:11:33.460 Right.

01:11:33.880 And so a child may take all of these different ideas that he's seen, she's seen, and then

01:11:39.520 create an amalgam of a perception of the world.

01:11:42.080 And then from that, create something unique and creative, saying, I want to dress up in

01:11:45.520 a jester's cap because it's a unique and strange thing.

01:11:47.920 You get punk rock, people with mohawks trying to be shocking.

01:11:50.820 Right.

01:11:51.220 But typically, children are just seeking to imitate.

01:11:53.180 Right.

01:11:53.400 So when you go to a group of children as an adult man wearing makeup, you are going to

01:12:00.160 be giving these kids the concept of adults wear makeup, men wear makeup, and they'll

01:12:04.400 adopt those social behaviors more likely than create a new one.

01:12:07.380 Fascinating that you should bring this up because, one, I've actually never had a student

01:12:13.380 try makeup after seeing me.

01:12:16.220 It's never happened.

01:12:17.340 Right?

01:12:17.480 Well, but you don't know where they'll be in five years.

01:12:19.060 I don't.

01:12:19.500 I'm a year in a book.

01:12:19.680 A thousand percent don't.

01:12:20.760 But with that said, my perception that I give, the imitation, the right, that's going

01:12:26.360 to occur, is not men should wear makeup.

01:12:29.020 Not, and again, I'm using the word man because biologically male, but I do identify as non-binary.

01:12:32.760 Right?

01:12:32.900 But that idea of not you need to wear makeup, it's an option.

01:12:37.780 Right?

01:12:38.120 And I think that's fair.

01:12:39.740 Right?

01:12:39.940 And I think that's what a lot of people have issue with.

01:12:41.620 It's like you can't wear makeup around kids because you're going to indoctrinate them.

01:12:44.360 That idea of, like, no, kids know it is an option.

01:12:48.380 Like, yeah.

01:12:49.380 I'm very anti-makeup.

01:12:51.320 Yeah.

01:12:51.620 And that's completely, and that's fine, right?

01:12:53.960 Not for social reasons, though.

01:12:55.200 Yeah.

01:12:55.460 Okay, tell me.

01:12:56.100 Yeah, I think it's typically petrochemicals that result in negative health effects for

01:13:02.340 people.

01:13:03.120 I got you.

01:13:03.660 And, you know, there's a woman that I met recently who got mercury poisoning, being

01:13:08.320 a model doing makeup.

01:13:09.200 And so I see this as a social practice that has only a detriment, doesn't really provide

01:13:14.420 any positive.

01:13:15.380 I'm not a fan of adult women caked up in makeup.

01:13:18.940 I got you.

01:13:19.240 And we could say the same thing about alcohol, right?

01:13:20.860 But in the end, people's choices are people's choices, right?

01:13:23.780 You want to wear makeup, you wear makeup.

01:13:25.020 But you don't tell kids to drink.

01:13:26.960 To do it.

01:13:27.380 To drink booze.

01:13:28.060 And you don't tell kids to wear makeup either.

01:13:30.620 And I think that's where the distinction is.

01:13:32.920 And so my position is not that anybody who wants, if you want to wear makeup, I really,

01:13:37.520 really don't care.

01:13:37.960 Right.

01:13:38.180 I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to wear makeup around children.

01:13:41.560 Women do it too.

01:13:42.300 A male child may identify with a female child.

01:13:45.240 My position is simply, there are things that have no positive benefit and only a net detriment

01:13:51.100 that children will adopt, be it drinking or doing anything else.

01:13:54.520 But I don't believe wearing makeup is nearly as bad as drinking.

01:13:57.280 I'm not trying to say that.

01:13:57.860 You already got me.

01:13:58.820 Well, and I was going to say with regards to social mimicry, I agree with that.

01:14:04.580 Input often equates in a way to output.

01:14:06.860 Kids do observe.

01:14:09.020 They're very observant and curious.

01:14:10.980 And I think what you feed tends to grow, even as we are adults.

01:14:15.660 I think this is why marketing is so successful.

01:14:18.280 And that's why people have huge marketing budgets.

01:14:20.380 Because you can convince somebody to eat that burger and get that vaccine.

01:14:24.080 You can convince somebody.

01:14:27.540 That was an unintentional animal.

01:14:29.820 I apologize.

01:14:30.680 That was very judgmental of me.

01:14:32.900 And it probably was on camera.

01:14:34.680 And I do apologize.

01:14:35.820 But it's true.

01:14:37.300 And I think even education, marketing is tremendously involved in education.

01:14:43.440 And I believe we're often getting a bait and switch.

01:14:45.820 I was recently at a conference in Philadelphia.

01:14:48.280 I got there a few days early.

01:14:49.840 There was a big education conference going on.

01:14:51.820 Most of what was being discussed, I got to visit with some of these wonderful people who were there.

01:14:57.560 But they did say one of the primary things that they're working on is marketing to the schools, then marketing to the staff and the parents.

01:15:04.700 And then that's the whole focus.

01:15:07.820 So I think we need to be analytical of the marketing coming in.

01:15:12.080 But when you're a child, with your developmental ages and stages that you're going through, the input received, I think that's it.

01:15:20.820 And I actually think we agree with regards to this.

01:15:23.440 Because there are teachers that do want to promote.

01:15:28.780 They do want to encourage exploration.

01:15:31.940 This happened to a friend of mine.

01:15:33.660 We heard of Abigail Schreier's leaked audio story from a training that occurred.

01:15:40.340 And that audio was shared on The Megyn Kelly Show.

01:15:43.620 And I think there are some that do indeed want to promote this.

01:15:48.820 There was a Teachers Union YouTube video where they did this video discussing a variety of topics.

01:15:57.640 But one teacher said, teaching is completely political in all aspects and realms.

01:16:01.860 Everything I do is political.

01:16:03.240 From the books I choose and everything that I center in class.

01:16:07.200 And so do we have an epidemic of that growing in education?

01:16:12.060 I do think that's what parents are noticing, which goes back to curriculum choices and all kinds of things.

01:16:18.500 But there's...

01:16:19.020 Oh, excuse me.

01:16:19.940 No, no, go ahead.

01:16:20.740 I'm so sorry.

01:16:21.360 But there's so many more teachers that are against...

01:16:23.980 See, like, we are like, oh, there's this group of people that are like, there's a whole bunch of teachers that are trying to make your kids chance.

01:16:28.320 There's so many more teachers that are against it.

01:16:30.220 There's so many more parents that are against it.

01:16:32.220 There's like...

01:16:34.220 But the Department of Education and the teachers unions are in favor of it.

01:16:37.780 But my issue is, and this is not an accusation towards you individually, nor you, but kind of into a general group of people that play the victim.

01:16:47.200 And you're not the victim, right?

01:16:48.920 These people that are like, oh, poor us.

01:16:50.220 You're making our kids trans.

01:16:51.620 No, we're not.

01:16:52.580 We're the minority population and we're not.

01:16:54.660 And these teachers that you keep bringing up, in my opinion, they're not actually LGBTQ.

01:16:57.420 Right.

01:16:58.060 And like, if you want...

01:16:59.420 They're not.

01:16:59.980 That's actually the greatest one.

01:17:01.300 I didn't buy that book.

01:17:02.840 I didn't buy it.

01:17:03.480 We call them...

01:17:04.100 They're called offals.

01:17:05.640 Like...

01:17:05.960 Oh, God.

01:17:06.700 Affluent white female liberals.

01:17:07.880 Okay.

01:17:08.040 I do think there's a lot of really...

01:17:09.420 Let's just...

01:17:10.420 I just want to say this.

01:17:11.500 I was probably on camera, too.

01:17:12.560 I do think there's a lot of great school staff and teachers that are not doing this.

01:17:16.580 Right.

01:17:16.840 And I think that we need those voices.

01:17:19.220 But from the school staff that I know, especially because the teachers unions are so loud with some of this, I think they're intimidated to speak up.

01:17:29.640 And we need those voices to say, hey, I'm seeing something saying something.

01:17:34.000 Do you want to address that?

01:17:34.820 Well, I just want to say, like, the only thing I would say, though, is that, you know who else is super loud is...

01:17:39.860 And I don't even like using this word because I feel like it's so out of context.

01:17:42.980 Like, the word bigoted really bugs me now because now it's like...

01:17:46.980 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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01:18:43.380 Kia, movement that inspires.

01:18:46.660 Like, you say anything and it's like you're bigoted, right?

01:18:49.440 But like, the actual dictionary definition of the word bigoted, that bigoted people are also very, very loud.

01:18:57.000 No matter what I do, they're loud as hell.

01:18:59.840 Well, which dictionary definition are you referring to?

01:19:01.320 Let's actually pull it up.

01:19:02.240 I want to see, right?

01:19:03.000 Because the principal definition is someone intolerant of another person's beliefs or opinions.

01:19:06.160 There you go, right?

01:19:07.100 So, beliefs and opinions, right?

01:19:08.560 So, bigot, somewhat intolerant of a person's belief and opinion.

01:19:12.220 Let's go with, and I'm allowed to say this, right?

01:19:14.280 Like TikTok, for example, right?

01:19:16.500 If you check out their Instagram page, they say, you know, we want to do a pride collaboration, right?

01:19:21.820 I do a pride collaboration.

01:19:22.940 Teaching pride in the classroom, what does it look like, right?

01:19:25.500 And I'm like, whoa, teaching pride in the classroom, I'm a learning specialist.

01:19:28.320 So, like, what do you mean by that, right?

01:19:30.020 And they're like, well, whatever you do for pride lessons.

01:19:31.700 And I'm like, well, this is the closest thing I do to pride lessons.

01:19:34.100 And it's literally having a student draw something on the front of their binder.

01:19:38.720 And it could be who they are.

01:19:40.340 It could be how they feel.

01:19:41.420 It could be what they like to do.

01:19:42.740 And that's pretty much as close to a pride lesson as I give.

01:19:45.740 Or where I have a student draw their family and then a student draw another family that looks different.

01:19:50.180 But people are calling me.

01:19:51.860 Oh, you're indoctriding.

01:19:53.020 Have you ever been to a pride?

01:19:54.000 You've been to a pride event, right?

01:19:54.860 I've been, yes, I've been to most of them, actually, yeah.

01:19:59.500 Is there, you're from California.

01:20:01.040 Do you typically go to, like, California pride?

01:20:02.240 Oh, San Francisco pride all the way.

01:20:03.720 Let's go.

01:20:04.120 Is it child appropriate?

01:20:05.220 That's a really great question.

01:20:06.540 Have you been to San Francisco pride before?

01:20:07.940 Not San Francisco.

01:20:08.660 I've been to LA.

01:20:09.880 I adore San Francisco pride.

01:20:12.560 Is it appropriate for children?

01:20:13.560 That is, I'll get there because I have to answer your question honestly.

01:20:16.840 And I know people that work for San Francisco pride.

01:20:19.240 And I have gone every single year.

01:20:22.520 In fact, my moms used to take me when I was a kid.

01:20:26.160 Oh my God, indoctrinating.

01:20:27.500 It is different now.

01:20:29.080 It is very, very different.

01:20:30.580 And in my opinion, San Francisco pride needs to have different sections.

01:20:35.340 And if you actually went to San Francisco pride, you would be fascinated by one of the

01:20:39.080 organizations that you would actually type in, which is Gays Against Grooming, which

01:20:43.560 is that idea of if pride events are pride events for kids, they need to have a certain level

01:20:47.960 of appropriateness to them.

01:20:49.240 And I agree with that.

01:20:50.760 I agree with that because there are certain things that occur.

01:20:53.420 Yep.

01:20:53.660 They're right there.

01:20:54.240 Right there.

01:20:55.060 Like there are certain things at pride events that are not age appropriate for kids.

01:20:59.420 These are not, that aren't even legal in many circumstances.

01:21:01.460 Yeah.

01:21:02.020 But are not, they're not enforced.

01:21:04.160 A thousand percent.

01:21:04.740 Despite the fact that in West Virginia, for instance, it is overtly illegal to have child

01:21:10.120 at a drag performance.

01:21:11.080 There's no law enforcement against it, but they do it in public.

01:21:13.580 Right.

01:21:14.480 And the police do literally nothing.

01:21:16.160 This is what's fascinating to me is like, and I also want to get your opinion on this

01:21:19.600 too, is like there's this weird false equivalence that is not real.

01:21:23.400 Like this to me, nope, I would not show my kids that.

01:21:26.800 There's no way.

01:21:27.300 My future kids could not see that.

01:21:28.340 My students would not be allowed to see that.

01:21:29.940 Absolutely freaking not.

01:21:31.040 Are you kidding me?

01:21:31.880 How old were you when you went to your first pride event?

01:21:33.500 Oh, I was like four.

01:21:34.740 I was 10.

01:21:35.800 How old are you now?

01:21:36.580 I'm 29.

01:21:37.360 Okay.

01:21:37.680 I'm 37.

01:21:38.620 So I don't know, whatever you, you at a younger age, went to a pride event.

01:21:43.660 My, my mother would not let me, my mom would not, not let me go outside of our family.

01:21:48.120 We had a coffee shop in North Halstead.

01:21:50.080 Right.

01:21:50.480 She told me to stay inside.

01:21:51.240 I wasn't allowed to go outside during pride at 10 years old because they were naked men

01:21:54.620 and women.

01:21:55.060 They were performing overt sex acts and simulated sex acts.

01:21:58.360 Yeah.

01:21:58.740 And my whole life that has always been the case.

01:22:01.400 Yeah.

01:22:01.580 So when that is the case for, from in my, in my life, basically three decades that every

01:22:07.520 pride I have ever been to is sexually explicit.

01:22:10.080 When you then go to children and say, let's talk about pride.

01:22:13.240 You can't have three decades of sexually explicit in public, overtly illegal, and then tell children,

01:22:19.280 let's bring you into this.

01:22:20.380 Because they're inherently correlated in your mind.

01:22:22.640 They're inherently correlated in your mind.

01:22:24.380 Maybe they should be, but they're not correlated in mine.

01:22:26.960 Right.

01:22:27.180 And I know that's crazy to think about now is having this conversation.

01:22:29.860 It's, it's not about whether it's in my mind inherently correlated.

01:22:32.500 It's that if you say, let's have you talk about pride and let me teach you about pride.

01:22:36.640 And then pride events is right.

01:22:39.000 You are, you are, this is, this is, but this is not pride.

01:22:42.380 That is not pride.

01:22:43.020 That is a pride parade.

01:22:44.500 Right.

01:22:44.900 Right.

01:22:45.060 And that's different than what pride is, right?

01:22:47.040 Pride is being who you are.

01:22:48.280 In my opinion, that's being who you are, respecting everyone, understanding people look different.

01:22:53.100 That's pride.

01:22:53.600 What is effectively happening is whatever your intention may be.

01:22:56.600 Right.

01:22:56.820 You are going to a child and saying, I would like to open this door to a world of inappropriate

01:23:01.900 behaviors to you by introducing you to this concept.

01:23:05.240 Right.

01:23:05.840 And that's, that's why people call it grooming.

01:23:07.620 Right.

01:23:07.940 So the, the misconception I would say with the last, I'm starting to finally understand

01:23:11.940 what people are like worried about.

01:23:13.900 I don't agree with it, but I fully understand in the perspective because I never, I didn't

01:23:17.940 understand it to this extent, but sorry, just to clarify before you continue pride to me,

01:23:23.980 I'm thinking, oh, it's pronouns.

01:23:25.420 It's accepting who you are.

01:23:26.420 It's being kind to everyone regardless.

01:23:27.760 But to you, teaching pride is inherently teaching pride parades, which is intentionally

01:23:32.360 teaching this, which is sexual.

01:23:34.560 Not necessarily.

01:23:35.200 Right.

01:23:35.420 But that's what I'm trying to hear.

01:23:36.260 It's, it's all under the same umbrella with no pushback from the LGBT community.

01:23:41.280 In fact, celebration of that gays against grooming is against groomers.

01:23:44.760 We're very familiar with, we're fans of, we're friends with.

01:23:46.660 There we go.

01:23:47.300 But so this is why it's grooming.

01:23:48.420 I'll break it down.

01:23:50.240 I'll give you an example of traditional grooming.

01:23:52.440 Okay.

01:23:53.100 A man shows up, sees a, sees a teenage girl at the mall with her parents.

01:23:57.160 Right.

01:23:57.420 He walks up and says, I work for a modeling agency.

01:24:00.740 Right.

01:24:01.280 Your daughter is tall, is slim, could be one of these Victoria's Secret models.

01:24:05.360 How would you like to be world famous, travel the world?

01:24:08.060 Take my card, look at my website.

01:24:09.980 If this is right for you and you think it's good for your kid, that the father goes, wow,

01:24:13.580 really?

01:24:13.820 My daughter could be famous and be a star and be a model like on the TV.

01:24:17.260 There's two potentialities in this scenario.

01:24:19.120 Yeah.

01:24:19.340 A legitimate modeling agent sees a teenage girl who could be a wonderful model and genuinely

01:24:25.800 wants her to just do regular old modeling.

01:24:27.760 Maybe it's even lifestyle.

01:24:28.640 Lifestyle is when they wear overalls and they're like merchandising.

01:24:31.560 Or he says, we're going to bring your daughter, come on down.

01:24:36.660 And the father is there with the daughter as she does a normal photo shoot.

01:24:40.160 And it seems all above board.

01:24:41.960 They do this for a few weeks.

01:24:44.100 Eventually the father's like, ah, you can go, you know, we know what you're doing.

01:24:48.140 I got to be at work.

01:24:49.100 Right.

01:24:49.340 And then the guy says, we're doing swimsuit today.

01:24:51.600 A month later, he says, now we're doing lingerie.

01:24:54.500 A month later.

01:24:55.520 We're doing it.

01:24:56.380 That's grooming.

01:24:57.140 Right.

01:24:57.360 A thousand percent when something seemingly may be normal, but the person is being pulled

01:25:02.820 in for the intent of putting them in a particular situation.

01:25:05.960 This is the traditional grooming that most people know about casting couch and things

01:25:08.980 like this.

01:25:09.500 Right.

01:25:09.800 Now, the issue with pride is that there is no upper with the modeling world.

01:25:16.180 There is an upper level of legitimate above board modeling.

01:25:20.380 Right.

01:25:20.760 You can be a superstar.

01:25:21.840 You could be on TV.

01:25:22.620 They're not trying to get you to do porn.

01:25:23.740 Right.

01:25:23.980 With pride, the upper level is men are performing sex acts on each other in public and defended

01:25:28.680 by the LGBT community.

01:25:29.400 I would never say that that, first of all, in my opinion, there's no levels of gayness,

01:25:33.000 right?

01:25:33.420 But I understand.

01:25:34.580 I completely understand what you're saying.

01:25:35.520 What I'm saying is that the two paths in terms of quote unquote modeling is the deviant

01:25:41.020 of trying to trick a child or groom them into prostitution.

01:25:45.960 Right.

01:25:46.320 Or just being on the cover of a magazine.

01:25:47.700 Which is crazy.

01:25:48.380 But yes.

01:25:48.980 The most pronounced experience of pride is for 37 years I've been alive from the 27

01:25:55.900 years since I have witnessed these.

01:25:58.000 Yeah.

01:25:58.380 They are overtly sexual.

01:25:59.640 Yeah.

01:25:59.960 North Halstead, Chicago.

01:26:01.260 I'm told my whole life, love is love.

01:26:03.400 I'm a little kid.

01:26:04.320 My family's liberal Democrat.

01:26:05.640 Yeah.

01:26:05.820 And they said, we agree with gay marriage.

01:26:07.940 We agree with all of this because people are allowed to love whoever they want.

01:26:10.540 And then I said, how come the mannequins are giving each other blowjobs in full view of

01:26:14.740 the public?

01:26:15.360 Right.

01:26:15.500 What does that have to do with love?

01:26:16.440 I'm like 10 years old and I'm like, it's not, they have penis and vagina, macaroni and

01:26:20.400 cheese.

01:26:20.780 Right.

01:26:21.000 It's not about love.

01:26:21.800 Right.

01:26:22.160 So when you go to a child and say, I want you to, to entertain pride and the public facing

01:26:27.260 prominent community is overtly sexual.

01:26:30.660 That's why people are calling it grooming.

01:26:32.100 Got it.

01:26:32.460 Now here's the deal.

01:26:33.500 Right.

01:26:33.780 And I, let's make sure like the microphone gets it.

01:26:35.840 Like LGBTQIA, we're not pedophiles.

01:26:40.280 That's a pedophile.

01:26:41.180 There's a difference between a pedophile and someone gay.

01:26:43.660 Well, do you think these two men performing BDSM in public are pedophiles?

01:26:47.620 No, because they're clearly gay.

01:26:49.380 They are gay.

01:26:50.300 They're doing something.

01:26:51.540 And here's, here's where, and this, I was so looking forward to like talking to you about

01:26:55.960 because I like, I've heard some of like, and I wouldn't call them accusations, but like

01:26:58.940 some statements made by you, right?

01:27:00.200 Like where that idea of like, if you do this, then therefore like you're a pedophile or you're

01:27:04.700 against, you know, but it's like, they're not, they're gay.

01:27:07.320 They're gay.

01:27:07.840 There is unfortunately a misunderstanding though of what's appropriate to do around kids and

01:27:12.340 what is not.

01:27:13.220 And hear me out, like love to both of my moms.

01:27:15.520 Right.

01:27:16.120 Um, there was parts of pride that I was not allowed to go to right.

01:27:19.920 As a kid.

01:27:20.480 Right.

01:27:21.080 Because they were not appropriate.

01:27:22.500 And I think there are parts of pride that are appropriate for kids and parts of pride that

01:27:25.600 are not appropriate for kids.

01:27:27.060 Right.

01:27:27.280 Like there was a pride event and you're going to literally like destroy me on this one because

01:27:31.020 you're going to be mad.

01:27:31.800 You're going to be mad too.

01:27:32.900 There was a school, there was a school district pride event that we had.

01:27:35.960 And I was like the person for it.

01:27:37.660 I was like the spokesperson for it.

01:27:39.480 And like, hear me out.

01:27:41.300 It was a great event.

01:27:42.720 It was a really great event.

01:27:44.080 We had different booths and the entire pride event was be who you are.

01:27:47.660 There was nothing sexual about it.

01:27:49.560 We had an individual.

01:27:51.060 Um, I don't even know if I could say her name, if that's a good idea to say her name.

01:27:53.960 We had an individual.

01:27:55.340 She came, she told her story about like,

01:27:57.280 what it was like to transition.

01:27:58.900 And I had to coach her a little bit, even though she was older than me and much more

01:28:01.940 successful about, you know what?

01:28:03.960 You actually can't say that you were considering suicide in front of kids.

01:28:06.840 You know what?

01:28:07.240 You can't actually go through the medical procedure in front of kids.

01:28:09.920 There is totally a way to make pride child appropriate.

01:28:13.660 And I respect your understanding that there are certain things that children should not

01:28:18.760 see.

01:28:19.040 And I understand your concern, both of your concerns.

01:28:21.480 If it's possible, it is.

01:28:22.920 We can make pride appropriate.

01:28:24.400 If the only thing that exists, existed in modeling was prostitution, right?

01:28:29.200 The supermodels we all know about were all prostitutes, then you don't let your child

01:28:32.880 model.

01:28:33.280 Right.

01:28:33.640 And the same thing.

01:28:34.620 I love your points.

01:28:35.680 Ah, right.

01:28:36.700 Yes.

01:28:37.220 Right.

01:28:37.460 And if it was only prostitution, there's no way your child should model, ever.

01:28:41.380 And if being gay and being LGBTQIA was only about sex, then there's no way you would expose

01:28:48.320 that to kids.

01:28:48.840 Well, no.

01:28:49.120 Well, right.

01:28:49.860 And yet, it's not always about sex.

01:28:53.220 LGBTQIA actually isn't about sex.

01:28:55.280 And I know that's ridiculous to consider.

01:28:57.340 But I had this conversation with a friend the other day.

01:28:59.020 LGBTQIA, gender identity, lesbian, gays, bisexuals, gender fluids, non-binary.

01:29:04.980 It's sex is actually a very small part of the equation.

01:29:08.600 But my point is pride events.

01:29:11.340 I have never seen a public pride event that wasn't that that was appropriate for children.

01:29:16.680 I'll invite you to my next time.

01:29:18.220 I'm totally messing with you.

01:29:19.360 But look, I'm not saying they don't exist.

01:29:21.240 I say I've never seen one because I'm sure there are some where they just marched down

01:29:23.960 the street and they have flags and things like that.

01:29:25.160 I want to know something.

01:29:25.920 And oh, gosh, and I'm not going to because I was actually told by the district to not

01:29:30.080 actually make it a big deal because they don't want too much media attention, especially in

01:29:33.600 hiring me.

01:29:34.200 But want to know something?

01:29:36.480 This was a really big topic of conversation at the pride event book because we were sponsored

01:29:40.780 by a library.

01:29:42.100 Right.

01:29:42.620 And they have that in accessible children connects us genderqueer.

01:29:46.320 Yeah.

01:29:46.760 So here's where it got very interesting.

01:29:48.080 Right.

01:29:48.980 Is that we got this book recommended to us by the students.

01:29:56.360 That were right.

01:29:58.200 I looked at this book and I'm like, of course, as always, I read through it and I'm like,

01:30:01.900 you know what?

01:30:03.100 Amazing read.

01:30:04.240 Amazing, amazing read.

01:30:05.180 I agree.

01:30:05.920 Right.

01:30:06.360 Great read.

01:30:08.100 Conservatives don't read it and they should.

01:30:09.500 It's a great book.

01:30:10.760 Right.

01:30:11.200 But with that said, have you read it?

01:30:13.080 No, it's very interesting.

01:30:14.340 But we have some.

01:30:15.800 I don't think I could show this on camera.

01:30:16.920 I've seen a lot of others, though.

01:30:18.180 Right.

01:30:18.420 We have some seriously graphic images.

01:30:20.300 Right.

01:30:20.640 I mean, I don't know if I can even show this.

01:30:22.560 No, no, no.

01:30:24.580 We can't show this on a frigging podcast on YouTube on YouTube.

01:30:30.000 Right.

01:30:30.460 And I will tell you the story.

01:30:32.340 I supported my students getting this from parents if the parents thought that it was

01:30:37.140 appropriate for them.

01:30:38.200 But we, as a group, we had a whole group meeting about this.

01:30:43.060 We were actually like, we actually can't have this book at the Pride event.

01:30:47.200 There are kids that are under the age of 10.

01:30:49.380 Guess what happened?

01:30:50.500 We did not have a book at the Pride event.

01:30:52.060 We invited a library.

01:30:53.460 Did I mention that we care?

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01:31:51.980 Movement that inspires.

01:31:54.020 Guess what book the library brought?

01:31:55.440 They brought this?

01:31:55.920 They brought the frickin' book.

01:31:56.820 And that's why people are calling them groomers.

01:31:58.080 And that's why they're calling us groomers.

01:31:59.880 We were a group of gay people and we were like, we can't bring this.

01:32:03.060 And the library sent it.

01:32:05.000 And I'm like, are you kidding me?

01:32:06.980 You're making us look so bad.

01:32:08.600 And it's not us.

01:32:09.860 We're not doing it.

01:32:11.120 But that's why there's gays against groomers.

01:32:12.440 That's literally, can I join that group?

01:32:14.280 Like literally, it's killing me.

01:32:16.020 Like it's actually, we are not pinky.

01:32:18.200 We are not your enemy.

01:32:19.180 We are not your enemy.

01:32:20.480 Some people over stuff.

01:32:21.220 We're friends with gays against groomers.

01:32:23.060 Yeah, like love that.

01:32:23.760 We have their literature and stuff downstairs.

01:32:26.140 Right.

01:32:26.560 But we're not perpetuating this.

01:32:28.340 We, I would give this to a student if the student won.

01:32:32.080 If a student ever, if I thought a student could ever benefit from a book like this and it's

01:32:35.160 a great book, I would talk to the parent about it.

01:32:37.760 I would get the child perspective.

01:32:39.140 I would talk to the psychiatrist about it.

01:32:41.020 I would talk to the coach about it.

01:32:42.340 I'm a learning specialist.

01:32:43.560 I don't just give books that have very explicit material like this.

01:32:46.200 It's a good book.

01:32:47.000 And I, I would promote this book.

01:32:48.740 I think it's great.

01:32:49.320 But when I have it at a public event for kids under 10, not necessarily.

01:32:52.260 Was it accidentally there?

01:32:53.440 Yes.

01:32:53.700 Did it cause any problems?

01:32:54.680 Actually, no, it didn't cause any problems.

01:32:57.100 It did not cause anyone to be gay.

01:32:58.800 It wasn't a problem in the end.

01:33:00.260 Right.

01:33:00.480 But in the end, I just want to be super clear.

01:33:03.160 We had a meeting about this book and we banned it as a group of gay people putting on pride

01:33:08.240 in fricking the Bay Area.

01:33:09.500 So, so this is the issue that the argument that all gay people, all LGBT people are groomers

01:33:14.340 is not correct.

01:33:14.740 It's so wrong.

01:33:15.800 I have people that like pretend to be me online and I'm like, hi, I'm Desmond Fambrini.

01:33:19.580 I'm a groomer.

01:33:20.200 Want to hang out?

01:33:20.780 And I'm like, this is how I had to go off discord because there were so many fricking Desmond

01:33:23.820 Fambrinis.

01:33:24.560 They got that audio clip now.

01:33:25.400 Like, but, but like I said,

01:33:28.720 we're friends with gays against groomers.

01:33:32.240 They have a subcategory trans against groomers.

01:33:34.460 We have fans and friends of the show who are trans.

01:33:37.980 And the big issue is there are certain things that are not appropriate for children.

01:33:41.020 They're not.

01:33:41.320 So if you come out and you're like, you know, you believe in pride and all this stuff,

01:33:44.140 we're mostly like, okay, just, you know, we want to keep certain things away from kids.

01:33:46.960 Right.

01:33:47.120 I agree with you.

01:33:47.700 If parents believe that this is appropriate for their children, parents have the final say.

01:33:51.740 Collaboration.

01:33:52.240 To, within a certain, to a certain extent, I don't know, there's a, there's a moral line.

01:33:56.160 You don't want parents being like hustler is appropriate for kids.

01:33:58.720 No, no, no.

01:33:59.240 We intervene there and be like, you clearly, clearly crossed, crossed the line.

01:34:02.520 I, what I always say about this book, genderqueer, there are a lot of conservatives.

01:34:05.840 There are a lot of, you know, people critical of gender ideology.

01:34:09.980 I wonder, I say, have you ever read it?

01:34:11.440 They go, no.

01:34:12.040 And I'm like, look, you know, it's not, it takes it 20 minutes.

01:34:15.520 It's a graphic novel.

01:34:17.660 Yeah.

01:34:17.960 I think it's a good book.

01:34:19.240 I think it's a good book that explains the problems.

01:34:24.520 And what's fascinating to me is, I'm assuming you think it's a good book because of the

01:34:29.300 perspective of the non-binary individual and everything.

01:34:31.440 I think it's a good book because it explains the psychological torture and torment of this

01:34:34.880 individual.

01:34:35.120 I think that that is so, such an important facet of this book, such an important facet

01:34:41.440 of this book, right?

01:34:42.980 And I feel, wow, see, I knew this was going to be a good conversation.

01:34:47.760 But before you accidentally agree with me.

01:34:49.300 Yeah.

01:34:49.580 Well, I'm not fully agreeing with you, right?

01:34:51.260 This is a book about a female who was mercilessly abused by her parents, neglected, psychologically

01:35:00.400 tormented, and now is suffering from developmental disorders that are being affirmed by modern

01:35:06.520 society to the point where they think it's good children learn and believe these ideas

01:35:11.060 are correct.

01:35:11.900 But you have a young woman who was pissing in her backyard, who was never taught to read,

01:35:17.900 who wore for three days in a row, dried pads, crusted with menstrual blood to the point where

01:35:24.040 she smelled so bad.

01:35:25.140 This is in the book that she was made fun of by her classmates and then internalized all

01:35:29.500 of that and said, the real problem is that being a girl sucks.

01:35:32.960 The real problem was your mother and your father abused you emotionally and not with direct physical

01:35:39.260 violence, but it was physical abuse.

01:35:40.920 Having your child urinate in the yard, having them wear crusted menstrual pads for days.

01:35:46.300 This is something where Child Protective Service is supposed to intervene and save this child.

01:35:50.960 And the child, in this book, she talks about how when the other girls made fun of her for

01:35:55.800 not shaving her legs, for smelling like feces, she then said, if only I was a boy.

01:36:00.780 Right.

01:36:01.120 No, no, no, no, no, no.

01:36:02.220 It's not if only I was a boy.

01:36:03.440 It's that your parents abused you.

01:36:05.660 Right.

01:36:06.300 And so what she does then is she takes this abuse and equates it with being female and

01:36:12.400 not, she doesn't want to be a man.

01:36:13.940 Right.

01:36:14.260 She doesn't want to be a woman.

01:36:15.280 One thing that I actually take personal offense to, I saw a clip from Billboard Chris where

01:36:21.320 he asked a trans man, how do you know you're trans?

01:36:24.220 And this biological female who identifies as a man said, you know how you wake up feeling

01:36:28.400 like a man?

01:36:29.180 I wake up feeling like a man.

01:36:30.520 No, I don't.

01:36:31.520 I don't wake up feeling like a man.

01:36:33.280 There is no point of reference for anyone to wake up feeling like anything other than

01:36:37.520 themselves.

01:36:38.060 Okay.

01:36:38.540 But they create this idea of it is better to be an other, an assumption of the feelings

01:36:43.880 I have, and they want to appropriate that from me without actually understanding it in

01:36:48.560 any way.

01:36:49.340 Right.

01:36:49.660 This woman explains later on the book that she's actually a fetishist.

01:36:52.660 Right.

01:36:52.980 She's what's called an auto androphile.

01:36:54.800 She has sexually aroused the thought of being a man.

01:36:57.480 You then come to, I think what you see here is she's a teacher going to children, asking

01:37:03.540 these children to fulfill her sexual fantasy.

01:37:06.100 Whether that's the core reason why she does it isn't the issue.

01:37:09.440 She does.

01:37:09.920 She explicitly says she has sexually aroused the thought of being a man and then asks children

01:37:15.460 to entertain that thought.

01:37:17.140 That is completely inappropriate.

01:37:18.980 What we have here is someone who has suffered psychological trauma, who is now pushing that

01:37:23.380 onto children.

01:37:24.100 That is horrifying to me.

01:37:25.920 Now, here's, there's so much that I want to unpack there, but I also want to give you

01:37:29.380 a chance to speak because I think you have such an amazing perspective.

01:37:31.480 And that was such an interesting interpretation of the book.

01:37:33.500 One that I, of course, have different viewpoints of, right?

01:37:36.000 But as you know, I'm very, a huge fan of finding common ground, right?

01:37:41.920 And do I think that it's hugely problematic?

01:37:45.080 Do I think that people are trans because of trauma?

01:37:47.840 No, I don't think people are trans because of trauma.

01:37:50.020 I sincerely disagree with you on that.

01:37:51.820 However, she's not trans.

01:37:52.800 She's non-binary.

01:37:53.360 Well, yeah, I know.

01:37:54.100 She rejects femininity.

01:37:54.800 She rejects femininity, right?

01:37:56.420 But like the idea of like the classic idea of like, oh, people are trans, people are gay

01:38:00.980 because of trauma, right?

01:38:04.300 And like now there's this movement, apologies, like just to clarify, but now we sometimes

01:38:08.560 hear people that are non-binary going under the trans umbrella.

01:38:10.900 So I just say like trans for everyone.

01:38:12.300 Just wanted to clarify that.

01:38:13.280 But with that said, even though I very much disagree with a lot of that perspective where

01:38:18.400 it's like, oh, it was because of trauma and you're pushing it on kids and this is that

01:38:21.620 and the other.

01:38:22.140 What I do agree with is there is a conversation that needs to be had that being non-binary and

01:38:27.740 being gay isn't for fun.

01:38:30.840 It's actually freaking hard, right?

01:38:33.560 And it can be.

01:38:35.160 And I don't necessarily do this.

01:38:37.480 In fact, I don't do this for fun.

01:38:39.800 I wake up and I do this to myself and I feel like this way and I talk like this and I act

01:38:44.060 like this because this is what feels right for me.

01:38:46.360 And I do think there's a problem in social media, the mimicry idea that you make gay

01:38:52.180 look fun and trendy and then kids hop on that bandwagon without understanding that there

01:38:57.820 is discrimination that you are going to go through and that there are problems that

01:39:00.360 you're going to go through.

01:39:00.980 But people are born the way they are, in my opinion.

01:39:04.400 So I feel like there's this gray area that is never explored, which is, yes, sometimes

01:39:08.560 people accidentally equate being queer to being different and trendy.

01:39:11.340 But on the other side, there are people that are just queer and we shouldn't just banish.

01:39:17.880 Like we shouldn't just say, oh, all gay people are just, you know, traumatized.

01:39:21.220 I was not traumatized.

01:39:22.280 I just don't.

01:39:22.860 I don't, yeah, I don't think people are, I think there's a variety of different people

01:39:26.880 who are trans for different reasons.

01:39:28.120 A thousand percent.

01:39:28.760 I think the.

01:39:29.940 Can we just like, can we, what can you do to like wind that back?

01:39:33.460 Right?

01:39:33.760 Because like that idea of people are trans for different reasons, people are non-binary for

01:39:37.160 different.

01:39:37.500 That is so never talked about.

01:39:39.660 I think the principal reason, my view is probably plastic endocrine disruptors.

01:39:44.360 A lot of people talk about why it is we're synced to a massive explosion of trans youth

01:39:48.060 and transgender, transgenderism.

01:39:50.000 Well, we're like the second generation of plastic.

01:39:52.160 We are the second generation born of plastic products.

01:39:54.500 I went to an antique store.

01:39:56.000 Soda cans were hard metal.

01:39:57.880 Knee high orange soda was a hard metal can when you like crack open.

01:40:01.360 I was like, wow, from the fifties.

01:40:02.840 And then the advent of plastics and plastic products are to emerge probably around the late,

01:40:07.280 the mid, in the sixties, mostly in the seventies.

01:40:09.960 And then you end up with the boomer generation who are now in their late teens and twenties

01:40:13.760 into the seventies, consuming products, all wrapped and coated in plastic, PCBs, phthalates,

01:40:18.600 endocrine disruptors that we know to be endocrine disruptors, as well as other pesticides

01:40:21.960 and chemicals.

01:40:22.860 You then end up with the boomer generation consuming majority of these chemicals while

01:40:26.520 they have babies in utero.

01:40:27.780 And then we're surprised to see that millennials and Gen Z have a higher rate of transgenderism.

01:40:33.200 I don't think that's the only reason, but I think we've known for some time about

01:40:37.120 phthalates and PCBs, for instance, and the effect on, on babies and the endocrine system.

01:40:42.880 Yet, for some reason, there are many people who are associated with the right who would

01:40:45.760 say there are no trans kids.

01:40:47.340 There's no, I'm like, well, if we, if, if, if, if you go back to Alex Jones yelling,

01:40:52.300 they're turning the fricking frogs gay, it's been 10 years of people on the right saying

01:40:57.980 that there are chemicals that cause endocrine disruption in, in, in life and animals,

01:41:02.700 and it's going to impact us.

01:41:03.920 So the question is, is then if someone was trans and they're experiencing gender dysphoria

01:41:09.740 because of endocrine disruption due to the chemicals in our food and an environment, how

01:41:14.320 do we adequately accommodate these individuals who through no fault of their own are experiencing

01:41:17.820 this?

01:41:17.980 And that's a great question that I think is like so important to have with parents,

01:41:22.040 with medical staffs, with teachers, and for everyone to be included.

01:41:25.460 But there are trans kids, there are non-binary kids, but that idea of like, people are turning

01:41:32.700 them trans on purpose.

01:41:34.360 It just, it really, it hurts me a little bit, right?

01:41:36.680 Because like, and it probably just cause it like, it hurts, you know, when like, um, like

01:41:40.540 just for, for an example for you, right?

01:41:42.220 That idea of like, oh my God, I can't believe you didn't tell me something happened to my

01:41:45.120 kid.

01:41:45.580 It's your literal job to protect them.

01:41:47.600 You care about the most.

01:41:49.000 And it's like kind of a slap in the face, right?

01:41:51.620 At least that's the perspective that I would think that you have, right?

01:41:54.160 Like someone, someone insults your kid or your kid is, says that they're a girl or a boy

01:41:59.060 or whatever.

01:41:59.420 And you don't tell me I'm their fricking parent.

01:42:01.360 What do you mean you're not telling me?

01:42:02.440 And I get that perspective, but I have the same perspective as like a, like for, as a

01:42:07.120 teacher, right?

01:42:08.120 That a teacher that wears makeup, that's non-binary, that idea of like, I make myself a public figure.

01:42:13.180 I'm live scanned by the state of California.

01:42:14.820 Every move that I do is watched, right?

01:42:16.960 And I, what, make a video.

01:42:19.320 I put on some eyeshadow and you're like, you are indoctrinating my kid.

01:42:23.420 That's such a slap in the face to me in my community.

01:42:25.720 Like I went to school for fricking 25 years.

01:42:29.780 I went to grad school to make sure that I could teach your kid to read the best that

01:42:34.260 they could ever read.

01:42:35.380 I went to school to make sure that your kid has an individualized education program that

01:42:38.740 no one else has because I do custom products for each kid.

01:42:42.100 And you're saying I'm grooming them because I'm wearing lipstick.

01:42:46.000 Like that's such a slap in the face to me.

01:42:47.560 You know what I do find really funny is the guests we've had on the show who are not LGBT,

01:42:51.580 LGBT, but are like affluent, affluent white liberals tend to adamantly defend books like

01:42:58.240 this, uh, tend to adamantly defend this book is gay being given to children, say it shouldn't

01:43:03.840 be censored.

01:43:04.380 And then whenever we have actual LGBT people, they say, I agree, this stuff's inappropriate.

01:43:08.880 And so it's very interesting that when it comes to issues of race and gender, it tends

01:43:12.580 to be affluent white liberals who are not members of this community.

01:43:16.020 So, uh, and they're trying their best to support.

01:43:18.880 I want you to, I don't, I don't know if that's, I think they're trying their best to get clicks

01:43:21.960 on the internet.

01:43:22.420 Well, it's there, you know, they're, they're trying to support.

01:43:25.280 So, okay, I'll tell you a story.

01:43:26.700 This better not go viral.

01:43:27.940 I swear to God.

01:43:28.740 I swear to God.

01:43:30.100 Um, but when you really care about someone, you shouted from the mountaintops.

01:43:36.840 So, on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

01:43:41.740 our clients that we really care about you.

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01:44:29.980 Movement that inspires.

01:44:32.000 I, you know, I feel like people try to be accepting.

01:44:34.800 And sometimes there's a misstep and it ends up causing a media, like, corruption, right?

01:44:40.800 So I walk into a school.

01:44:42.520 They hire me.

01:44:43.660 They have a couple students that have a very specific, you know, ADHD diagnosis combined

01:44:48.540 with dyslexia.

01:44:49.200 So very, very tricky to read, right?

01:44:50.640 They bring me in.

01:44:51.400 They hire me.

01:44:52.060 I walk into the school and I go, you know, oh, by the way, can you show me where your

01:44:55.700 bathroom is?

01:44:56.640 And they're like, there's one right there.

01:44:57.900 They point to the girl's bathroom.

01:44:59.200 Oh, wow.

01:45:00.020 And I'm like, oh, like the bathroom, like, for adults.

01:45:04.760 Because I don't want to be like, oh, I'm just, I just, I'm non-binary.

01:45:08.120 I wear makeup, but I use the guy's bathroom, right?

01:45:09.660 But they're like, it's right there.

01:45:11.020 And like, they pointed to the woman's bathroom.

01:45:12.880 They pointed to the girl's bathroom.

01:45:14.420 There's like an eight-year-old girl who just goes in there, right?

01:45:16.560 And I'm like, and I want to be polite.

01:45:18.540 I'm like, oh, no, the bathroom for adults.

01:45:20.580 And they're like, oh, that one's on the other side of the campus.

01:45:23.040 You could just use that one.

01:45:24.120 And I got where they were coming from because they were like, oh, you know, she probably

01:45:28.120 identifies as a woman and she wants to be included.

01:45:30.680 First of all, I think the bathroom topic is just nonsense.

01:45:33.800 I just think that there should be separate adult and children bathrooms in the first

01:45:36.900 place.

01:45:37.120 And that would solve the problem.

01:45:38.400 But that idea of like, people are trying their best to accommodate, but sometimes you

01:45:41.520 try to accommodate a little bit too much.

01:45:43.940 And not everyone has.

01:45:45.360 That's what they do.

01:45:45.860 Yeah.

01:45:46.080 Not, sometimes you try to accommodate too much.

01:45:48.460 And some people like me are, I have to be on my guard all the time, right?

01:45:51.920 So I, I'm like, I'll go to the one across, I've walked the entire school, but like, they're

01:45:56.660 trying to help.

01:45:57.460 They are trying to help, but it's accidentally misinterpreted.

01:45:59.840 And then what if I said yes?

01:46:01.120 And there was a picture taken.

01:46:02.500 Oh my gosh, you know, trans teacher goes into a child's bathroom with an eight-year-old.

01:46:06.120 And then there's going to be a fricking news story on it that is going to be talked about

01:46:08.980 on this podcast.

01:46:09.720 And you see how quickly things tumble, right?

01:46:11.600 And that's my issue.

01:46:12.620 Let's, let's, let's, uh, we spent a lot of time talking about gender stuff.

01:46:15.040 We haven't talked about the critical race theory stuff that's in schools.

01:46:17.160 Very interesting.

01:46:17.880 And I think, yeah, I think that's an important component as well.

01:46:21.340 Obviously, because what we find is there's this really hilarious study a few years ago.

01:46:25.840 Um, two of them actually I'll cite.

01:46:27.660 One was white liberals are the only demographic with an out-group preference.

01:46:33.400 So black people tend to prefer to be around black people, but it's, it's small margins.

01:46:37.160 Surprisingly, it's like 18%.

01:46:39.180 So it's like slim minority, but you see that, you know, black people prefer to be around black

01:46:43.700 people, Latinos around Latinos, white conservatives prefer to be around white conservatives.

01:46:47.540 Asians prefer to be around Asians.

01:46:48.560 And white liberals prefer not to be around white people in general.

01:46:52.020 And I think this is for whatever reason, uh, like why ever, how, for whatever reason they're

01:46:57.020 adopting this resulting in a lot of the problems that we're actually seeing in that you end up with

01:47:01.560 these circumstances where white people go around calling other people racist.

01:47:06.660 You end up with white liberals calling Larry Elder, a black man, a white supremacist.

01:47:11.460 I got called racist and transphobic on my TikTok page for like a full year.

01:47:16.700 That means you really can't win, can you?

01:47:19.640 Oh, but look, you have-

01:47:20.460 Like for a full year, I was told that I was racist and transphobic, like for a year.

01:47:24.900 Like I just want to put that out there.

01:47:26.200 It's like, you can't win.

01:47:26.880 I mean, gays against groomers are called homophobic despite the fact that they're

01:47:30.000 actually gay.

01:47:31.360 It doesn't matter.

01:47:32.320 I think, and again, it's not up, you know, there's parts of the organization that I've

01:47:36.360 heard that I still need to like some, but it seems like it's a solid organization.

01:47:38.960 That idea of like things are appropriate for certain things and things are appropriate

01:47:41.740 for not.

01:47:42.360 But that idea of like, I want to hear your perspective because hear me out, critical race

01:47:45.740 theory, of course, there's like maybe some issues, but I was on, you know, different

01:47:49.460 shows, different podcasts, different news channels.

01:47:51.380 Do you worry about your kids maybe never seeing people that look different or act different?

01:47:56.740 Or maybe your kid hasn't seen someone who looks like me, right?

01:48:00.160 And then you're going to have an idea.

01:48:01.740 They're going to have an idea.

01:48:02.920 They're going to be nervous.

01:48:03.680 They're going to be worried.

01:48:04.460 They're going to be, and, or they may not be, or they might not be, right?

01:48:08.220 No, our kids see a lot of diversity.

01:48:10.860 Great.

01:48:11.140 Okay.

01:48:11.380 So, and then, well, NC, you probably do a very good job at making sure that occurs,

01:48:15.040 right?

01:48:15.160 But I do get worried in some homeschool situations.

01:48:17.680 It's not even intentional, right?

01:48:19.660 We have like just geopolitics that can put, like you said, different people in different

01:48:24.020 areas.

01:48:24.320 But I just get worried when you get to the homeschooling idea where it's like you only

01:48:27.460 have people that look a certain way, act a certain way, and it's limiting, right?

01:48:31.800 Well, I don't, I don't know.

01:48:33.000 No, I've seen, I've seen a lot of diversity in homeschooling.

01:48:37.000 I mean, there were a lot of families that, that just chose to homeschool on their own

01:48:42.460 because they thought they could provide their child a different education.

01:48:47.300 There's a lot of kids with different special needs.

01:48:49.640 There's all, I mean, all across the scope of things, I've seen, you know, a lot in homeschool.

01:48:58.340 And I would say that, I mean, for me, the homeschool experience has brought back, I mean,

01:49:05.520 for example, I know, I know this isn't talking about critical race theory, but I had been

01:49:09.600 working with our children to read prior to them starting preschool and kindergarten and

01:49:15.480 all of those things.

01:49:16.240 I was working with them because I've collected books since I was little and I love books.

01:49:23.420 And, and so anyways, our daughter was making all of this progress prior to entering kindergarten.

01:49:28.240 And then she gets into kindergarten and she's doing this cuing reading where she's having

01:49:32.140 to kind of guess what the sentence is, which is making news right now.

01:49:35.780 And I mean, I think after, you know, then we get to first grade and I even suggested to

01:49:43.720 the teacher because she was bringing home some books that were, you know, as far as literacy,

01:49:50.100 they were behind.

01:49:51.340 And I said, you know, was talking with them and stuff, but she didn't enjoy reading.

01:49:58.540 She, it was, it was daunting.

01:50:00.120 She didn't enjoy school.

01:50:01.440 Our son wasn't enjoying school.

01:50:02.880 He wasn't feeling challenged enough.

01:50:04.360 And, and so at any rate, I didn't know how homeschooling was going to go.

01:50:09.280 I had actually told my husband in December when I fail at this, we need a plan.

01:50:14.440 We need a plan B.

01:50:15.160 And it was a, it's still a shock to me how well it's gone.

01:50:19.420 But what ended up happening is a couple months in our kids were on their own reading and they

01:50:26.300 were reading all different kinds of books and chapter books.

01:50:28.620 And I remember looking to my husband and the kids were in the back of the car and I said,

01:50:33.840 look, the kids are reading on their own.

01:50:37.140 And, and they just loved it.

01:50:39.460 And so, I mean, I feel like education, I mean, California's education has really gone downhill.

01:50:46.000 I, I think nationwide, you know, there's just been a complete shift in, in educational topics

01:50:55.620 and different things, but I think the thing that gets me is if kids aren't reading, if

01:51:01.800 they aren't able to do math, math was a challenge to me when I was, when I was younger, even in

01:51:07.320 college a little bit, but all of these topics, I mean, I want kids to love learning and I can

01:51:15.100 tell that from you as well.

01:51:16.300 And I, I want kids to be able to just develop.

01:51:20.540 And, and I think right now, I don't know, it's, it's been a, a very, this is completely

01:51:27.280 unintended journey for me.

01:51:28.800 Yeah.

01:51:29.060 I never in a million years thought I'd be doing this, but you know, with regards to like,

01:51:35.460 like California's ethnic studies for me, it was looking at that material and then trying

01:51:41.020 to think through like who is France Finn and wretched of the earth you know, some of the

01:51:46.780 source documents.

01:51:47.680 It's new for parents to hear about all the, these different critical theories, you know,

01:51:51.900 the source documents that I looked at, you know, it mentioned queer theory, lat crit

01:51:55.800 theory, critical race, critical race theory, and all of these different things.

01:52:00.820 And then the content, you know, trying to look through some of the materials from the curriculum,

01:52:07.940 they were teaching kids how to be an activist, how to develop a counter narrative to a narrative,

01:52:14.280 all different kinds of things.

01:52:17.180 And I feel like, you know, for my part, I think in some ways, education has lost its

01:52:21.940 way.

01:52:22.560 And I kind of get the impression that we agree on quite a bit.

01:52:26.080 It's very interesting.

01:52:27.100 Oh, yeah.

01:52:27.360 A thousand percent.

01:52:27.900 On some things.

01:52:28.720 I mean, not on everything.

01:52:29.480 Not on everything, but it's very interesting that you can say that.

01:52:31.680 You know, I, I, I just think with, with ethnic studies, this idea of, of the politicized part

01:52:39.380 of it, you know, it's, it's interesting.

01:52:43.140 I, I initially heard ethnic studies and I thought, fabulous.

01:52:46.620 Yeah.

01:52:46.820 And I think it's really, well, and I thought we're going to be learning about all these

01:52:51.220 different ethnicities and we're going to learn about people's cultures and all of these things.

01:52:56.080 But then I saw Antonio Gramsci and I did see a reference to Karl Marx and I'm going, okay.

01:53:03.060 That's not what I anticipated.

01:53:05.540 And I think you bring up like a really interesting point and just like, okay, here's where I

01:53:08.980 think we agree.

01:53:09.780 And also like where we disagree is I think things like gender theory, critical race theory,

01:53:15.240 you know, gender studies are all like so important because in the end, I feel critical

01:53:20.020 thinking is the skill that we need to teach kids to be able to think critically, differentiate

01:53:24.580 points, figure out things on their own, right?

01:53:27.140 I feel like that is key.

01:53:28.920 And that's why it really hurts me when people are like, we need to just ban critical race

01:53:32.220 theory.

01:53:32.400 We need to ban gender studies.

01:53:33.960 Now, these are the studies that are really important because you're thinking critically

01:53:36.740 about societal issues.

01:53:38.240 However, where I think a little bit of the misstep, like you said, happened is we started

01:53:44.040 prioritizing critical thinking before we taught the fundamentals, right?

01:53:47.620 And if you teach critical thinking before teaching the fundamentals of reading, math, science,

01:53:52.580 you accidentally insert your own opinions into teaching critical thinking as an educator.

01:53:58.580 And that's where the misstep is, in my opinion.

01:54:00.680 I think the issue mostly is critical race theory is rooted in Marxism, quite literally.

01:54:05.660 In the founding document of critical race theory, Kimberly Crenshaw explicitly said Karl Marx

01:54:10.660 got critical theory right, but doesn't understand the racial component in the United States.

01:54:14.600 So what they're doing is they're not teaching kids about understanding, you know, the history

01:54:19.460 of this country, for one, 6019 is mostly a fabrication, even, what's it, I can't remember

01:54:24.780 the woman's name, who wrote it, said it wasn't intended to be accurate history.

01:54:28.600 You end up with these ideological curriculums in math and science that create a false picture

01:54:36.920 of what is really going on with race relations.

01:54:38.980 Indoctrinating kids into the idea of oppressed versus oppressor, which creates an antagonistic

01:54:44.060 society.

01:54:44.860 And then people always vote to be the oppressed as opposed to the oppressor.

01:54:48.680 Well, it's because the oppressed are actually the oppressor.

01:54:50.540 Well, it's debatable, but I understand your point.

01:54:53.360 But it is.

01:54:53.920 Those of victimhood today are granted special privileges.

01:54:56.580 For instance, if you are perceived as being oppressive, you get banned from social media.

01:55:00.560 So the interesting thing is the victim exerts this tremendous authority over everyone else

01:55:05.480 to fall in line, lest they be removed from society.

01:55:09.720 So those pretending to be oppressed are actually the oppressors.

01:55:13.020 You know, you have this story out of the UK of the 16-year-old girl who called a cop a

01:55:16.560 lesbian.

01:55:17.180 She gets arrested for it.

01:55:18.420 Those police are the oppressors.

01:55:20.420 A 16-year-old autistic child making an off-the-cuff comment, which you find offensive, does not warrant

01:55:25.440 the arrest of that child.

01:55:26.840 But the person, the police officer, they then claim that these officers are victims of hate

01:55:32.300 crimes.

01:55:32.880 No, they're an oppressive force who are targeting a child for saying something stupid.

01:55:37.180 What we end up seeing in these schools is, first, I think the important thing is critical

01:55:41.440 race theory as written by Camille Crenshaw is Marxism.

01:55:44.640 Marxism, I think, is very, very bad in a lot of ways because it pits people against each

01:55:48.740 other and creates disunity.

01:55:50.560 In the schools, you end up with these really weird circumstances.

01:55:53.200 We have a bunch of these books actually on our shelf outside that were given to us by

01:55:56.360 many of our guests.

01:55:58.620 They do things like this.

01:56:00.220 This is the issue with critical race theory.

01:56:02.280 If you're going to go to a bunch of kids in Florida and say, let's teach about the history

01:56:05.000 of slavery in the North Atlantic slave trade and give you a full view of it.

01:56:08.060 For one, anybody who brings up an element of slavery that doesn't adopt the worst view

01:56:13.460 of it will be attacked for bringing it up.

01:56:15.480 For instance, if you bring up that many slaves worked in shops and received money, they'll

01:56:19.560 say that you are downplaying what slavery was because slavery was always the most abusive

01:56:24.200 and intolerant thing.

01:56:25.220 Now, slavery was bad, but it was many different things.

01:56:27.160 It was very bad.

01:56:28.240 Right.

01:56:29.200 It's considered a moral failing.

01:56:31.100 It was like one of the greatest moral failings of like the human population.

01:56:34.760 And it still exists.

01:56:35.560 Yeah.

01:56:35.940 But does banning it solve the problem?

01:56:39.100 No one's banning telling kids about slavery.

01:56:41.400 In fact, I would make the argument that those who are banning discussions of slavery are

01:56:44.640 actually on the left.

01:56:45.640 Okay.

01:56:45.980 So I'll give you an example.

01:56:47.000 I see your point.

01:56:47.400 I see your point.

01:56:47.940 But I disagree.

01:56:48.480 But I see your point.

01:56:49.520 If you have someone tell the story of many slaves in the South, for instance, I've been

01:56:54.520 reading a lot about the Civil War.

01:56:57.120 When you ask someone, what was a slave?

01:56:58.820 Imagine a slave.

01:56:59.600 They're going to imagine a man in a field being beaten by a plantation owner.

01:57:03.580 What they're if you then come out and say, did you know that many slaves were actually

01:57:07.180 working jobs and received money for what they did?

01:57:10.120 They'll say, that's insane.

01:57:11.680 You're a lot.

01:57:12.120 You're wrong.

01:57:12.380 They dismiss the.

01:57:13.820 But this is an important conversation about, say, Frederick Douglass.

01:57:16.420 When you learn the stories of slaves who bought their freedom, they worked hard.

01:57:20.560 They did receive money, but they were fully controlled in every element of their life

01:57:23.720 by a slave master.

01:57:25.300 That's wrong.

01:57:26.560 But many, many of these individuals were working in shops because it facilitated the

01:57:31.540 business of the white slave owner.

01:57:33.580 And in some instances, not even white Native Americans and other black people had slaves

01:57:36.280 too.

01:57:36.840 Not the majority.

01:57:38.020 But they would be able to receive compensation.

01:57:40.480 Granted, the person who owned the slave would receive more or receive fees.

01:57:44.200 It's it's it's it's a much broader picture.

01:57:46.500 You hear stories about a teacher who would bring something like this up and then get attacked

01:57:50.120 and canceled by the left for it.

01:57:51.500 A thousand percent.

01:57:52.120 But the bigger issue is we see these books where instead of saying, let's teach you about

01:57:59.600 the history of slavery, it's a math book.

01:58:01.880 And the math book says Jamal has been stopped by police 17 times this month where Eric and it

01:58:07.240 shows a picture of a black man and a white man.

01:58:08.500 And Eric was only stopped once.

01:58:10.420 What percentage of the stops were, you know, of the young black male, racially biased?

01:58:16.020 Right.

01:58:16.220 And so what they're doing is they're creating these math problems that created a worldview

01:58:22.100 that indoctrinates this oppressed versus oppressor narrative, which in a very much

01:58:27.140 all fascinating points as always.

01:58:28.780 But it very much, though, I do worry about kind of an inherent issue where I remember very

01:58:35.160 specifically, like really quick side note, I remember in first grade being taught about

01:58:39.380 slavery.

01:58:39.940 And one of the key things that was always said to me in slavery units was, but, you know,

01:58:46.180 that, you know, Africans actually were the ones that were selling other Africans.

01:58:49.500 Right.

01:58:49.920 And I felt I didn't understand it at that time.

01:58:52.840 Right.

01:58:53.280 And now with my education, I understand, well, that they had a very different idea of what

01:58:57.100 slavery was when Africa, you know, the idea of trading people that we had very different.

01:59:01.340 It was a very big miscommunication.

01:59:02.980 Right.

01:59:03.300 But in the end, you were just stealing people.

01:59:04.980 Slavery is bad.

01:59:05.780 I really got to underline that.

01:59:06.880 Right.

01:59:07.360 But I do get worried if we say, oh, you know, well, they were also earning wages and they

01:59:10.740 were also they could buy their freedom.

01:59:11.900 And this is that.

01:59:12.380 Yeah.

01:59:12.480 I do get worried that we somewhat downplay the severity of how bad slavery was.

01:59:16.740 Now, is critical race theory perfect?

01:59:17.980 No.

01:59:18.200 Is Marx actually worth studying?

01:59:19.520 Yeah, Marx is.

01:59:20.360 But like, in my opinion.

01:59:21.840 But it's tricky to me because.

01:59:24.900 There should be an awareness that there is racial bias.

01:59:28.260 There should be right there.

01:59:30.260 And I think it's important.

01:59:31.440 And I think it's tricky to kind of get everyone to understand that without putting it in curriculum

01:59:36.920 consistently.

01:59:38.100 Right.

01:59:38.400 I do want my students to know that I have encountered police officers a bit more frequently,

01:59:45.140 quite more frequently than my white counterparts.

01:59:48.300 How do you know that?

01:59:49.100 That's actually a great question.

01:59:50.920 And so how do I know that holistically or how do I know that just in my personal experience?

01:59:55.480 Both.

01:59:56.100 Great question.

01:59:57.000 Personal experience.

01:59:57.960 Right.

01:59:58.120 Like, for example, I will be walking down.

02:00:00.780 I don't know if you know, like Waterworld, USA and like, right.

02:00:03.580 We go there.

02:00:04.160 And I always remember I like hated going because there was always like security everywhere.

02:00:10.000 I would always be asked to show my freaking receipt.

02:00:13.000 And it's so funny because my mom would always be like, keep your receipts.

02:00:15.160 And I never understood why.

02:00:16.240 And it's because I was always the one whenever I'd be walking around with like a bag of candy

02:00:19.820 or like a toy or whatever that an officer would stop.

02:00:22.460 Do you have a receipt for that?

02:00:23.640 And not my friend.

02:00:24.940 In the store.

02:00:25.500 In the store.

02:00:26.440 No, outside the store.

02:00:27.220 When you leave the store.

02:00:28.020 Right.

02:00:28.240 In public.

02:00:28.620 Leave the store in public.

02:00:29.840 Right.

02:00:30.020 Or in like the water park.

02:00:31.260 Do you have a receipt for that?

02:00:32.160 And I dang right I do.

02:00:33.300 And I would keep going my way.

02:00:35.360 Right.

02:00:35.640 But it was odd.

02:00:36.780 It was weird to me how I would consistently be like, oh, well, you know, you need to prove

02:00:42.420 this.

02:00:42.700 You need to prove that.

02:00:43.340 You need to prove the other.

02:00:44.280 And it didn't happen to my white friends.

02:00:46.520 And I do want my students to understand that there is a difference in kind of treatment.

02:00:52.080 Right.

02:00:52.360 Now, how we implement that in a curriculum is very, very difficult.

02:00:55.480 Right.

02:00:55.880 And I think this is actually where and I'm not speaking like for you at all.

02:01:00.620 But like, I think in looking at like this content that I've seen from yours is I think

02:01:04.800 that this is where you're accidentally misinterpreted sometimes, because I think you say things

02:01:08.660 like I'm against a critical race theory.

02:01:09.940 I'm against this or that's against that.

02:01:11.400 And you're not against teaching the ideas of it, but you're more for the idea of the

02:01:14.460 individuality and individual perspective.

02:01:16.680 I'm pro teaching critical race.

02:01:18.140 I actually didn't know that.

02:01:19.000 So that idea.

02:01:20.100 Right.

02:01:20.320 I'm against critical race praxis.

02:01:23.960 OK, so see that.

02:01:25.340 And I think that's where the crap.

02:01:26.660 Yeah, that's that's where the differentiation.

02:01:29.460 Right.

02:01:29.940 That's where the differentiation takes place, where I think you're sometimes taking it out

02:01:33.020 of context where you appear and people are like, he's trying to lying.

02:01:35.940 Yeah, I know they are.

02:01:36.800 Right.

02:01:37.060 But that idea of like, I think people don't give the other side the time of day, because

02:01:40.780 I think there is a way to really individually teach slavery, what happened, what the implications

02:01:46.720 were.

02:01:47.420 I even think get ready.

02:01:48.860 Let's start a tussle.

02:01:50.000 Right.

02:01:50.160 Because we're getting still a little bit too.

02:01:51.800 All right.

02:01:52.000 Like, I even think there's a way to kind of implement affirmative action to the point

02:01:55.380 where it is beneficial.

02:01:57.300 But I don't think that there should be a point system.

02:02:00.460 We struck that down in a previous Supreme Court case.

02:02:02.680 I don't think that somebody black should inherently be looked at thinking, oh, you are always

02:02:06.840 going to have a struggle that is more intense in every circumstance.

02:02:09.820 There are certain circumstances, but not all.

02:02:12.080 Right.

02:02:12.360 And I think that's important to teach.

02:02:13.900 I think it's important to take that into consideration for college admissions.

02:02:16.720 I think having a class that is more diverse is going to be inherently more beneficial.

02:02:20.240 Right.

02:02:20.540 But I think it needs to be done very, very carefully.

02:02:22.360 And maybe we did a rush job at kind of doing that.

02:02:24.680 Yeah.

02:02:24.840 You said you're 51 percent Italian.

02:02:26.380 I am.

02:02:26.860 Do you have one white parent, one black parent?

02:02:28.780 I do.

02:02:29.300 Yes.

02:02:29.960 So I'm curious your experience.

02:02:31.900 Like which one of your parents is white?

02:02:34.020 So my mom, my mom actually passed away.

02:02:36.500 That was my biological mom.

02:02:37.600 But she was white.

02:02:38.180 No, thank you.

02:02:38.800 I appreciate it.

02:02:39.580 She was purebred Italian, 100 percent.

02:02:42.900 So I'm 51 percent Italian.

02:02:44.040 She was blonde hair, blue eyed.

02:02:45.280 And then my dad, who kind of out of the picture, very out of the picture, he was black, right?

02:02:50.140 Which is like, of course, you kind of like, well, see, this is the problem.

02:02:52.280 And like, this is that and the other.

02:02:53.300 You kind of get that whole perpetuated like, well, this is the stereotype, right?

02:02:56.060 But so you grew up when you grew up, you had two moms or one mom passed away young?

02:03:00.100 So one mom passed away and I grew up.

02:03:02.260 Two moms were separated.

02:03:03.060 My biological mom I actually lived with for a while and then kind of became an adult.

02:03:05.820 Then she passed away.

02:03:06.480 But I still have my other mom in my life.

02:03:08.100 But with that said, I assume your question to be like, well, who'd you grow up with?

02:03:12.000 Like, what was your family look like?

02:03:13.360 Italians, right?

02:03:14.300 They're very much Italians.

02:03:15.420 However, my mom's made sure to also raise me with people that look like me.

02:03:20.040 And when I started dancing in the fifth grade, I was, you know, taken.

02:03:22.500 I was on a dance team in Oakland and I got to, you know, learn about that aspect of my

02:03:26.880 culture and what that was like.

02:03:27.960 And that was very important for me to have both of those kind of experiences to draw from.

02:03:32.840 Also, my second mom is Japanese, right?

02:03:34.920 So I also had that culture.

02:03:36.380 You speak Japanese?

02:03:37.000 Oh, my God.

02:03:37.600 See, so hear me out.

02:03:39.120 Not only did I suck at learning Japanese, even though, like, I remember my grandmother

02:03:43.240 speaking Japanese, not only was I not allowed to, like, not only did I suck at learning Japanese,

02:03:47.300 but then what I was actually good at was Italian.

02:03:49.400 And I wasn't even allowed to speak that because Italians were not very fond and people were

02:03:53.660 not very fond of Italians in San Francisco and we were immigrants.

02:03:56.180 So, like, we were not allowed to speak Italian in the family.

02:03:58.600 My grandparents wouldn't teach us.

02:03:59.560 So I have, I know sign language.

02:04:01.340 I'm fluent.

02:04:02.260 Oh, really?

02:04:02.760 But no Italian or Japanese, sadly.

02:04:06.760 The reason I ask is because I come from a mixed race background.

02:04:10.020 Everyone knows it's a meme.

02:04:10.940 Right.

02:04:11.260 My dad's a white German-Irish guy.

02:04:13.060 Right.

02:04:13.340 My mom's a hopper.

02:04:14.440 She's half Korean, 40% Korean, 10% Japanese.

02:04:17.480 We learn that it's through DNA testing.

02:04:20.040 Yeah.

02:04:20.240 Typically, when I tell people I'm Korean and I'm part Korean, they go, I'm a little bit

02:04:24.420 Japanese.

02:04:24.820 They go, oh, because the implications historically.

02:04:27.500 But the reason I bring it up is I grew up in this, with these experiences of racism.

02:04:33.620 We had, our house was attacked a couple times by white supremacists or whatever you describe

02:04:38.080 it as putting, they put pamphlets on our doorstep saying race mixing was wrong and we should

02:04:42.080 be ashamed and, you know, the kids are mongrels and things like that.

02:04:45.460 Then I have this dad who is clearly not in agreement with these ideas.

02:04:49.440 He marries a Korean woman.

02:04:51.200 And then when he goes to work, he's told that because he's white, he's privileged and not

02:04:55.720 allowed to receive certain standard things.

02:04:58.080 Right.

02:04:58.480 He wanted to get a promotion in, you know, the fire department.

02:05:01.940 They passed him up because they wanted a lower, a lower, someone who got lower on the, on the

02:05:06.100 promotions test, but who happened to be an ethnic minority.

02:05:09.420 So my dad, who is someone who absolutely resists the racism, is punished by this system.

02:05:15.180 Then I, as a child in a mixed race family who is being threatened and targeted by racists

02:05:19.640 suffer because of it.

02:05:21.680 Mostly I would, I'm not going to, I, suffering is relative for the most part.

02:05:25.020 I would, I would say growing up in a, you know, like lower middle class family or upper

02:05:29.260 lower class, everyone describe it.

02:05:31.820 Life was life, right?

02:05:33.000 It was what it was, but my, I know that my life would have been better had they not

02:05:36.680 discriminated against my father.

02:05:38.620 And then because they did caused, they basically held back a family, a mixed race.

02:05:45.180 Because one family member happened to have been white.

02:05:48.640 That's affirmative action.

02:05:49.900 And I grew up with that.

02:05:51.080 And that's why I firmly opposed it in the entirety.

02:05:54.840 The idea that you would say, this man's white, therefore he's privileged, therefore he can't

02:05:59.320 get these benefits.

02:06:00.260 And he's actually in a part of a mixed race family.

02:06:02.140 Now that, that minority family suffers because of it makes literally no sense.

02:06:05.820 It doesn't make sense.

02:06:06.440 And I think you also, and I would even go back to like your original point, which is that

02:06:10.240 idea of like, you know, on this, like on this show, right?

02:06:13.420 That idea of like, well, you always have to define a word because it means two different

02:06:16.280 things from like different people, right?

02:06:17.640 And one thing for me that I always seem to be running issues into on like on social media

02:06:22.000 is like people that are like, well, you can only be racist to like, right?

02:06:25.500 White people can't be racist, right?

02:06:27.560 And like white people are always the oppressors and this, this, that, and the other.

02:06:30.600 And I got to say, like, you know, I would push back on that narrative because I think

02:06:33.880 that racism looks different based on the context, right?

02:06:36.020 I think there is systematic and systemic racism in America.

02:06:40.080 I think that does need to be addressed sometimes, but can racism occur on an individual level

02:06:44.840 or on a more systemed level?

02:06:46.780 Like for example, a workplace environment.

02:06:49.320 Yeah.

02:06:49.720 A thousand percent.

02:06:50.520 Right.

02:06:50.860 And people are always like, well, no, black people can't be racist.

02:06:53.100 Then I go, if I hung a door on my office that said no more white students, that's a black

02:06:59.280 person being racist, right?

02:07:01.000 So black people can be right.

02:07:02.680 Black people can be racist to other people.

02:07:03.960 But on average, right, we do have one kind of group that tends to oppress the others

02:07:10.620 more frequently.

02:07:11.880 Now, with that said, there are nuanced situations, like you said, right?

02:07:14.900 Where somebody that is white that like allegedly, like you said, I don't want to like make any

02:07:18.680 assumptions, but seems to be more qualified that was passed up.

02:07:20.840 And I'm sorry that occurred, right?

02:07:22.620 But I do think there are situations where you can take somebody's race into consideration

02:07:26.000 and say, oh, you definitely were more challenged because of this instance without making it a

02:07:33.080 point system, without saying all white people are doing this or all black people experience

02:07:37.580 this.

02:07:38.380 I don't know.

02:07:38.860 You know, they had the Supreme Court ruling.

02:07:40.900 Harvard now says they're still going to take race into consideration for admissions, but

02:07:44.400 they're going to do it by an essay basis about like write an essay about how you were oppressed

02:07:48.000 or something.

02:07:48.400 So they're going to find ways to get around it.

02:07:49.680 Yeah.

02:07:50.140 And the issue here is you can't determine whether or not someone is good, bad, smart, stupid,

02:07:57.420 worthy, unworthy by their race.

02:07:59.940 You can't.

02:08:00.540 But yeah.

02:08:01.720 Yes.

02:08:02.220 Right.

02:08:02.600 Oh, my God.

02:08:02.920 So that means in the positive and negative sense.

02:08:05.120 Right.

02:08:05.420 I don't think that.

02:08:07.680 Look, anybody.

02:08:08.860 I have a grocery store.

02:08:10.080 Right.

02:08:10.460 I don't care who you are.

02:08:11.320 You walk in.

02:08:11.860 Right.

02:08:11.980 I want I want people on security cameras to be paying attention to what you're doing.

02:08:14.380 A thousand percent.

02:08:15.000 You can make racially profiled arguments and all that stuff all day and night.

02:08:17.720 I'm like, yeah, well, I'm not going to give someone the benefit of the doubt to steal

02:08:20.960 from me because they happen to be the other race.

02:08:23.080 That's stupid.

02:08:23.740 And then a white guy comes in and robs you.

02:08:25.800 But it goes the other way, too, with Harvard.

02:08:29.220 The way I always describe it is whenever someone tells me they're for affirmative action, I

02:08:34.660 say, then I want you to be the one to look that lower class Asian child in the face and

02:08:39.380 tell them you will never be allowed in Harvard because you look like they look right.

02:08:42.560 And I think you bring up a very interesting point.

02:08:44.560 And I also want to hear your perspective, too.

02:08:46.120 Right.

02:08:46.320 But that idea of it being a touchy subject.

02:08:49.520 And it's very interesting because I still remember to this day, you know, I don't want

02:08:55.320 to do a story of time to bore anyone.

02:08:56.760 But like I remember in high school, we had to actually make the arguments.

02:08:59.640 We did like the moot court.

02:09:01.000 Did anybody do that in high school where you did the moot court in high school?

02:09:03.700 I didn't go to high school.

02:09:04.360 Oh, right.

02:09:04.980 There you go.

02:09:05.460 We did a moot court right where you had to pick a side and you had to argue like, OK,

02:09:09.600 you're for affirmative action against affirmative action.

02:09:11.620 And I remember specifically that I wanted to argue against it.

02:09:17.340 And the reason I wanted to argue against it is when I wanted to get that perspective,

02:09:20.180 because, you know, on average, I do think it should be taken into consideration.

02:09:24.000 But, too, I thought it was so just ambiguous how affirmative action was being played out

02:09:29.000 right to the point where it actually could be accidentally promoting what you're trying

02:09:34.080 to fight it, right?

02:09:35.060 Like accidentally doing what you're actually out to be against, right?

02:09:38.500 Unfortunately.

02:09:39.280 So I thought that these systems were awful.

02:09:40.840 And I think that I think that the point system was terrible.

02:09:43.020 And I think that assuming everyone black has a harder time is a problem.

02:09:45.700 But I do think race should be taken into consideration.

02:09:47.760 And I want to go to your point, which is so amazingly valid, which is you cannot tell

02:09:51.860 if somebody is a good or bad person based on their racial background.

02:09:54.860 However, on average, on average, which I know is dangerous, you can tell how somebody

02:10:00.140 has experienced life or you can tell the treatment someone has received throughout life based

02:10:06.340 on their racial background.

02:10:07.740 I disagree.

02:10:08.320 And that's OK.

02:10:09.000 And I want to hear that perspective, right?

02:10:10.340 And I want to hear that perspective.

02:10:11.300 But I know that when and again, when I have like my black friends around me, there's a

02:10:17.560 current under there's an understanding of like how kind of interactions with, let's say,

02:10:22.860 police officers work, right?

02:10:24.280 But it's an assumption.

02:10:25.380 And it's an assumption.

02:10:27.640 And it's it.

02:10:29.300 It's it's it's average.

02:10:31.600 It's it.

02:10:31.980 I don't I don't even necessarily think so.

02:10:33.480 I think you can look at New York, for instance, stop and frisk overwhelmingly targeted black

02:10:37.660 neighborhoods.

02:10:38.300 Right.

02:10:38.720 Bloomberg was unapologetic in this.

02:10:40.880 He said, well, that's where the crime is.

02:10:42.260 So we're going to go.

02:10:42.940 And we're right.

02:10:43.440 I'm like, first of all, they're doing it under the guise of violating these people's

02:10:46.480 Second Amendment rights.

02:10:47.240 First of all.

02:10:48.300 Yeah.

02:10:48.440 The argument for stop and frisk was you're not allowed to have guns.

02:10:51.040 Yeah.

02:10:51.280 Are you kidding?

02:10:51.980 Yeah.

02:10:52.180 I think that's absolutely insane that in this Democrat bastion of New York City, the police

02:10:58.880 are targeting minority neighborhoods over whether or not they have guns.

02:11:02.640 And they say, oh, there's a lot of shootings there.

02:11:04.220 So we do it.

02:11:04.660 And I'm like, well, it's a problem, right?

02:11:05.840 Because the Constitution says these people have a constitutional right to keep and bear arms.

02:11:09.380 And you pass some law, which I view is completely invalid, telling people they can't.

02:11:14.160 Then they go and they specifically target minority neighborhoods that I completely understand.

02:11:17.000 But I think the bigger issue is it's mostly about poverty.

02:11:22.760 And what happens is there are reasons why certain neighborhoods are impoverished historically.

02:11:27.760 And this includes a large proportion of African-American or Latino.

02:11:34.960 And so what ends up happening is people like Bloomberg say it's the black neighborhood.

02:11:39.840 I'm like, well, it's actually a lower income neighborhood.

02:11:41.540 It is.

02:11:42.140 Yes.

02:11:42.780 And again, targeting their Second Amendment rights.

02:11:44.500 But growing up on the south side of Chicago, what was my experience?

02:11:48.300 The cops weren't harassing black people.

02:11:50.100 They're harassing all of us.

02:11:51.880 And so there was this cultural thing about the talk.

02:11:55.300 And all of these affluent white liberals and, you know, we call them awful, affluent white female liberals are saying, like, it's so sad that, like, these poor black people have to get the talk from their parents.

02:12:07.160 And it was a commercial where it's like a guy putting his hands on the wheel, putting his keys in the dash, turning the radio down.

02:12:12.400 And I'm like, we all got the talk in my neighborhood.

02:12:17.120 White people, everyone's parents gave them the talk.

02:12:21.760 Here's what you do when the police come around.

02:12:23.420 Here's how you act around cops.

02:12:24.740 Don't talk to cops.

02:12:25.840 When you get pulled over, you turn the car off.

02:12:27.920 You put your keys.

02:12:28.800 You turn the dome light on.

02:12:29.820 You put your hands on the wheel.

02:12:31.120 You know, don't, you know, what is it like?

02:12:34.260 What is it like?

02:12:34.980 Ten and three or whatever.

02:12:36.860 And you roll the window down.

02:12:38.200 Then when the cop walks up, you look over and you ask the officer, you know, what the issue is.

02:12:42.400 Then all of a sudden I see in the corporate press and among prominent liberals, this is only a phenomenon of black people, which is fundamentally false.

02:12:51.120 It's a phenomenon of anybody who lives in cities who came from a poor area who had to deal with police.

02:12:56.760 Then the narrative becomes black people have to deal with this more than anyone else.

02:13:00.740 And I'm like, you know, now you're creating racial animosity.

02:13:04.140 Because if the real factor here is when it comes to affirmative action, when it comes to income, when it comes to education is not race, but it's in fact upward mobility.

02:13:11.680 And like, look, Oprah Winfrey's family is going to have no problem getting to Harvard.

02:13:15.960 Will Smith's family is going to have no problem getting to Harvard.

02:13:18.280 Yet the locals out in Appalachia ain't going anywhere near Harvard.

02:13:22.160 Now Harvard's outright saying they're going to give a net benefit to the children of these affluent, ultra wealthy celebrities.

02:13:27.820 And the poor people of Appalachia have no access based on race.

02:13:32.040 All that does is create racial tension, hatred and animosity.

02:13:34.860 And it does create racial tension.

02:13:35.880 And it's like you said, right, because we can look at test scores, right?

02:13:38.240 Who has the highest SAT scores?

02:13:39.700 Who has the highest scores?

02:13:40.500 It's not – I mean, you could look at how the race kind of is separated.

02:13:44.800 But you – top scores are from families that are 200,000 plus a year.

02:13:48.580 Yep.

02:13:48.760 Right?

02:13:49.080 They can buy private tutors.

02:13:50.160 Yeah, private tutors, right?

02:13:51.320 And 1,000 percent, that's why I volunteer every Friday, right?

02:13:53.660 Because 1,000 percent, not to be like pompous, right?

02:13:56.140 But only a specific type of person can afford my services.

02:13:59.160 And we need to make sure to disseminate that service to a broader group of people, right?

02:14:03.780 But with that said, I just – I – it's very, very tricky because I think you bring up the point that is by far the most valid but overlooked point in affirmative action, which is money matters a lot, right?

02:14:17.740 People historically, not even just in America, but the poor population has always been mistreated throughout history.

02:14:26.480 Always.

02:14:27.060 It's just a fact, right?

02:14:28.740 And affirmative action should take that into consideration.

02:14:31.600 But hear me out.

02:14:32.400 Hear me out, right?

02:14:33.240 What if I said I was in favor of the Harvard affirmative action way that they're kind of getting around it by making an essay?

02:14:42.080 And the reason I'm in favor of it, right?

02:14:44.000 And this is off the cusp, but I'm not 100 percent saying I have this opinion yet, right?

02:14:47.680 But I formulate my opinions over time.

02:14:49.600 It's not like an immediate thing, right?

02:14:51.080 But I'm saying, oh, I'm trying this opinion out.

02:14:52.920 I'm in favor of the Harvard affirmative action essay because it takes into consideration somebody's individual struggle with race.

02:15:00.920 Will Smith's kids – Will Smith, shout out to you.

02:15:03.020 You're great.

02:15:03.480 You signed something for me once.

02:15:05.900 They won't have that.

02:15:07.020 Right?

02:15:07.380 But they won't have that.

02:15:08.640 They will not have – if it's an individual essay, or they may, or they might.

02:15:13.880 They might, right?

02:15:15.000 They may – and I'm not sure.

02:15:16.000 I shouldn't make assumptions about people's family.

02:15:17.440 They may have had some racial issue that I was not aware of, right?

02:15:20.820 But they may not have it to the extent that some of my friends had it growing up in Oakland, right?

02:15:25.080 And I had an issue with that, right?

02:15:26.920 I had an issue – and I do have an issue with that.

02:15:29.020 So to me, Harvard policy, it's like, okay, we're going to do a race-based essay,

02:15:32.200 and you're going to talk about what kind of racial issues that you've grown up with.

02:15:35.820 I would love to write that essay.

02:15:37.860 I would opt to write that essay and have that considered for my Dartmouth application.

02:15:41.120 Shout out to Dartmouth.

02:15:41.680 Let's go big green.

02:15:42.860 But I would want that because I know my racial background did affect my upbringing,

02:15:48.380 but in a way that was very different than my black friends.

02:15:50.780 I can somewhat agree.

02:15:54.400 Right.

02:15:54.860 Only a little bit, maybe like 10%.

02:15:56.080 I'll take 10.

02:15:57.140 10 is pretty good.

02:15:58.440 The issue is Will Smith's kids are still going to be able to write an essay about something they perceive.

02:16:02.160 They will be able to write an essay that somebody else cannot bear.

02:16:04.580 But so I don't think Harvard should take into consideration that if you're the child of someone worth half a billion dollars,

02:16:12.000 and you once had a cop pull you over, they're like, oh, wow, we got to take this into consideration because it's a racial component.

02:16:16.720 I think the answer is fairly simple, and it actually does play into some of the ideas of Marx.

02:16:21.480 Class-based oppression.

02:16:22.960 If the idea is typically that the black community is less likely to have wealth, therefore—and that's the argument made by the left.

02:16:29.620 They say it's not an issue of race, it's an issue of poverty.

02:16:31.560 Crime is not because of the black community.

02:16:33.000 It's because of poverty, and you see that across the board, and then it gets misattributed to their race.

02:16:37.840 I agree with that.

02:16:38.520 So then, based on my experience, if you have an area that is typically—it is overwhelmingly minority population but does have white people who are poor living there as well,

02:16:48.840 you then go to that neighborhood and say, we're going to give either reparations or use affirmative action to lift you out of poverty based on race.

02:16:55.840 What ends up happening is you get this neighborhood of mixed-race group, lower income, predominantly, say, black, but with maybe a small percentage of white people who live there,

02:17:05.640 and now you've just elevated all of the black population based only on their race and completely ignored the poor people living around them, which results in racism, gang violence.

02:17:14.900 Now you have people saying, these people—like, they're going to say, these people—if you went and said, by class, we will give you admission, there's no real argument for that.

02:17:26.820 There's no legal argument for it.

02:17:28.080 Harvard can spend the money as they want to spend, and they can require tuition as they want to require tuition.

02:17:32.720 Then you'll end up with a neighborhood of a mixed-race background, but predominantly—if the idea among the left is that black people are typically—are more likely to be impoverished because of historical racism,

02:17:41.780 if you did it by class, you would be arguing to disproportionately benefit these black communities while not leaving behind any poor people of any other racial background.

02:17:50.520 Totally fair.

02:17:51.100 So we shouldn't be—having race be the predicate for—

02:17:54.460 I 100% see your point.

02:17:55.600 Yeah.

02:17:55.720 And I was going to say, I mean, with regards to all of this, I mean, again, we—I think one of the issues that I see massively in education, not just in California, is that there is this Marxian influence.

02:18:12.660 And not just, you know, like I mentioned earlier, Antonio Gramsci was mentioned in this one ethnic studies curriculum, and so was—there was a little reference to Karl Marx.

02:18:24.380 In addition to a variety of others, Paulo Freire, who was a Brazilian Marxist.

02:18:32.180 And I think the concerns I have is that I am seeing a growing number of some teachers who are indeed working towards political goals, politicizing kids into a political ideology.

02:18:47.540 I think, you know, just from the stories I've heard from parents, my son or my daughter, my children are experiencing, you know, all these political discussions in class.

02:19:00.320 And so, you know, even in California right now, we have the State Seal of Civic Engagement Program.

02:19:05.120 It is this whole push to really get kids active and civically engaged, but there is a component of activism into this.

02:19:13.740 And then at the same time, we have parents that don't know how to go to school board meetings or feel like their speech is being chilled by different things going on.

02:19:23.860 And so what I see, it just seems like, you know, kids are being taught almost in some schools, some, to be activists, whereas on the back burner, we have the actual academic achievement, merit, a quality education, a well-rounded education has changed.

02:19:46.200 You know, in California, they just passed the new math framework, equitable math kind of content.

02:19:53.060 And so what we're seeing is even the core subjects are transforming.

02:19:56.760 Right now, the next generation science standards are shifting a little bit.

02:20:01.780 I heard one report from Southern California where I was told that science was shifting and some of the high school science topics were being diminished.

02:20:11.620 And in its place, the students were being encouraged to debate in class, in science class, whereas their actual academic rigor was diminished down to almost a middle school level, but activism was heightened in order for students to argue how to solve the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals.

02:20:31.560 So these are just some things that I think, you know, again, and you talked about money, there's a lot of money in education.

02:20:38.360 There's a lot of big organizations funding different things, and their say is really making a big influence, I think, from what I've seen.

02:20:46.440 So, you know, I think kids are missing out.

02:20:50.600 They really need, they deserve a quality education.

02:20:53.760 They deserve to be able to graduate high school learning to read.

02:20:58.180 They should know how to read.

02:20:59.480 We're out of time.

02:21:00.000 So if you want to give any final thoughts.

02:21:02.380 Well, I was going to say, I think you bring up like a really good point, right?

02:21:04.920 But in the end, it's like that idea of like, well, even if your kid is the smartest in the world, who cares if they're not active and who cares if they're a bad person, right?

02:21:12.660 But I would just go to that idea of like, I think that there is a fundamental part of education that needs to be addressed.

02:21:17.780 And I do think that actual academic ability is very frequently not prioritized.

02:21:23.500 And just like you said, for us to take part in activism, for us to push our children to activism, right?

02:21:31.560 We need to make sure they have the fundamental skills first to make sure that they can think critically for themselves.

02:21:35.860 Because if we push them into activism too soon, we're just going to push them into the activism that we think is important.

02:21:40.460 And that's not my job as an educator.

02:21:41.700 I want my students to go into activism they think is important.

02:21:47.540 And I want their skills to kind of benefit that.

02:21:49.820 And I do think that in the long run, that is going to benefit kind of us in general.

02:21:53.700 And speaking to that affirmative action idea, I 100% see kind of that idea.

02:21:57.800 And it's so funny.

02:21:58.520 I think it's like a perfect segue.

02:21:59.960 It's like it's the same issue in education, right?

02:22:02.160 That idea of like, oh, gosh, you're just bringing up a certain group of people while leaving another behind.

02:22:06.180 And that's an issue, right?

02:22:07.780 And it's so funny to have that cross comparison.

02:22:09.180 The only thing I would say is that inherently there's always going to be a benefit from having diversity in the classroom and in the workplace.

02:22:14.760 And that's a personal opinion that I don't currently have the statistics to back up.

02:22:18.360 And you could disagree with that.

02:22:19.720 No, I don't think you even believe that.

02:22:21.000 Okay.

02:22:21.540 So hear me out.

02:22:23.040 Hear me out.

02:22:23.940 This is a good question, right?

02:22:25.180 I will say fundamentally, I do think that a diverse workspace does create an environment for productivity that may not be the productivity of like the greatest output.

02:22:38.220 But hear me out.

02:22:38.860 You don't believe that you don't believe that you don't think so.

02:22:40.260 No, you don't think so.

02:22:41.200 No.

02:22:41.480 Okay.

02:22:41.780 So would you hire an overt clan member in clan robes to come into your office?

02:22:45.700 You know what?

02:22:46.000 So you know what I'm speaking for?

02:22:47.300 You know what I'm speaking for?

02:22:48.200 Actually, 100% diversity.

02:22:49.540 Yeah.

02:22:49.960 No, no, no, no.

02:22:50.580 Not even my diversity.

02:22:51.600 Right.

02:22:52.040 But like, hear me out.

02:22:54.320 Oh, gosh.

02:22:54.940 Right.

02:22:55.120 And I have to say this.

02:22:55.920 I have to say this.

02:22:57.200 Oh, and don't be mad at me because this is me doing affirmative action.

02:23:00.220 I make sure I have at least two to three students.

02:23:03.120 I have at least a client list of like 30 to 40.

02:23:05.260 Right.

02:23:05.820 I make sure I have at least three or four students that are Trump families.

02:23:09.660 Like a thousand percent I make sure of it because it'd be weird.

02:23:12.960 But what I'm talking about?

02:23:14.000 I'm not sure.

02:23:14.440 No, but I'm just saying like diversity to me, having a diverse client list, having diverse

02:23:17.940 friends is important.

02:23:18.720 How many clan members?

02:23:20.080 No, unfortunately.

02:23:21.500 But this is my point.

02:23:22.300 I wouldn't.

02:23:22.580 I know what you mean.

02:23:23.280 I wouldn't want one of these.

02:23:24.240 Right.

02:23:24.580 I wouldn't have one of these people.

02:23:25.520 Right.

02:23:25.800 Like, I would certainly have a conversation with them.

02:23:28.300 Like, you mean like holistic diversity.

02:23:29.640 I a thousand percent understand your point.

02:23:30.840 So when people say diversity, they don't actually mean it.

02:23:33.320 Yeah.

02:23:33.460 What they mean is.

02:23:33.980 Okay.

02:23:34.400 Like the diversity that you find beneficial.

02:23:36.440 Like selective diversity.

02:23:37.720 So it's diversity basically just means the people I think are worth having around.

02:23:41.820 Okay.

02:23:42.240 I got you.

02:23:42.440 So when everyone says we believe in diversity, like they called Black Panther diverse.

02:23:46.000 Yeah.

02:23:46.160 I'm like the cast was 90% black.

02:23:47.580 What are you talking about?

02:23:47.960 I got you.

02:23:48.460 I got you.

02:23:48.860 And so you hear all these people talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion.

02:23:52.320 Right.

02:23:52.780 Yeah.

02:23:52.980 But it's a good point on the Trump thing.

02:23:54.360 They'll fire Trump's report in two seconds.

02:23:55.680 Right.

02:23:55.920 They talk about diversity and then they say, you know, they end up hiring disproportionate

02:24:01.180 people of different backgrounds and races.

02:24:03.340 I understand what you're saying.

02:24:03.700 So you're right, actually.

02:24:04.640 Nobody wants a truly diverse.

02:24:06.880 No.

02:24:07.100 I certainly don't.

02:24:07.860 You don't.

02:24:08.200 No.

02:24:08.600 We don't want Nazis around.

02:24:10.020 No.

02:24:10.240 That was like a total gotcha moment, right?

02:24:12.240 Because using diversity in its actual dictionary definition, you are correct, right?

02:24:16.080 It's personal perspective.

02:24:17.040 I want a personal perspective.

02:24:17.980 It's like, just like you said in your other podcast, where that idea of like, well, where

02:24:21.100 do you intervene?

02:24:22.020 Well, it's a moral idea, right?

02:24:23.620 Do you intervene on circumcising kids or do you intervene on circumcising females?

02:24:27.620 You want to intervene where you think you're a moral framework.

02:24:29.860 It's a moral framework.

02:24:30.880 So I think promoting a moral framework of diversity is important.

02:24:34.420 However, everyone's moral framework is going to be different.

02:24:36.140 And that's kind of up for individual.

02:24:37.360 Final thoughts.

02:24:38.020 Final thoughts.

02:24:38.520 We keep going.

02:24:39.480 I mean, with regards to DEI, which in our area is called JEDI, justice, equity, diversity,

02:24:45.940 and inclusion, not only am I noticing the educational aspect, but then there's environmental

02:24:54.340 social governance scores and corporate equality index.

02:24:58.360 I feel like there is this pressure, not I feel, I see it.

02:25:01.980 There is a pressure for collective conformity of one mode of thought, which is the acceptable

02:25:07.840 mode of thought.

02:25:08.880 And those who are not of that, this shift from I to we are going to be on the outskirts.

02:25:14.660 I mean, we see that on social media too.

02:25:16.160 So in any rate, I think it's important that we have that individual individuality because

02:25:22.720 that's freedom.

02:25:23.620 Right on.

02:25:24.620 We're way over, but thank you both for hanging out.

02:25:27.760 I so appreciate talking to everyone.

02:25:29.100 Is there anything you wanted to mention?

02:25:30.200 Any shout out before we wrap up?

02:25:32.340 Social media or something?

02:25:33.360 I don't know.

02:25:34.340 Desmond Fambrini on all handles and see people with different perspectives can talk to each

02:25:38.160 other without yelling.

02:25:40.280 There's a little bit of yelling, but it was mostly a lot.

02:25:41.900 It was mostly fun yelling.

02:25:42.980 Right.

02:25:43.280 Yeah.

02:25:43.400 I'm mainly on Twitter, Kelly SKE.

02:25:48.340 Thank you, everybody, for hanging out for this episode of the Culture War podcast.

02:25:51.680 Next week's going to be a lot of fun.

02:25:52.760 Everyone already knows it's I believe next week is Laura Loomer and Bill Mitchell.

02:25:56.060 We're going to be talking about Trump versus DeSantis, which is it's getting a bit difficult

02:25:59.780 considering the current state of the polls and all that.

02:26:02.580 But I hope you check it out and you can support the show by becoming a member at TimCast.com.

02:26:07.200 Thanks for hanging out.

02:26:07.860 We will see you all tonight at YouTube.com slash TimCast IRL 8 p.m.

02:26:13.400 Are you a biker, hiker, climber or spelunker?

02:26:19.260 If you answered yes to any or all of the above, head directly to Ottawa for awesome autumn cycling

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02:26:35.960 Get to Ottawa this fall and get into adventure in the great outdoors just outside your hotel

02:26:40.400 door.

02:26:40.680 Plan your adventure today at ottawatourism.ca.

The Culture War - Tim Pool - August 11, 2023

The Culture War #25 - Indoctrination or Education, Critical Race And Gender Theory In Schools

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