The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #32 - Rise And Fall Of Project Veritas w⧸James O'Keefe & Luke Rudkowski

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00:00:58.140 All right. James O'Keefe has just walked in, and we clicked live as soon as we heard you were outside.

00:01:03.020 So now you just got to sit down right here, and you're good to go.

00:01:05.280 I may have to pee.

00:01:06.400 No, no, no.

00:01:07.160 No bathroom breaks.

00:01:07.940 No bathroom breaks.

00:01:08.980 Maybe we'll get started, and then I'll pee.

00:01:10.600 No, go right to the bathroom. It's no big deal.

00:01:11.940 Bathroom's straight to the right over there.

00:01:13.740 We'll get the show going.

00:01:15.040 First room on the right.

00:01:15.760 Good to see you.

00:01:16.160 Good to see you.

00:01:16.860 Good to see you.

00:01:17.540 Good to see you.

00:01:17.560 We're hanging out.

00:01:20.640 It's early.

00:01:21.980 Welcome to the Culture War.

00:01:23.160 It's an early day.

00:01:24.400 Today is the big Miami show.

00:01:26.320 So after this, we're going to be going to our elite members meetup,

00:01:29.060 and then, of course, we have the Miami event at 6 p.m.

00:01:31.660 It's going to be all night.

00:01:32.440 It's going to be amazing.

00:01:33.480 Matt Gaetz will be here with us, and it's an honor.

00:01:36.580 We're going to be talking a lot about the fight that he's had in Congress.

00:01:40.160 But today, there's a lot of information pertaining to Project Veritas

00:01:44.200 that I think is really interesting.

00:01:45.040 I saw a video that James had put out about $8 million in the Veritas accounts

00:01:50.040 that is seemingly gone, the resignation of their CFO.

00:01:52.540 And so James is going to be joining us.

00:01:53.880 James will also, of course, be at the event tonight in Miami.

00:01:57.240 And I'm really interested to hear about what the deal is,

00:02:01.840 what's the deal with what happened with Project Veritas,

00:02:04.820 as well as the current things that James is working on.

00:02:06.980 And we'll talk about the state of media.

00:02:08.040 And that's why we have Luke Krakowski joining us as well.

00:02:09.900 I think it's fair to say that all the high-profile people

00:02:14.960 who say the establishment should be questioned

00:02:18.280 all getting taken down around the same time,

00:02:21.080 I think it's not a coincidence.

00:02:23.600 But yeah, I'm really looking forward to learn

00:02:26.380 and to see what was happening behind the scenes.

00:02:29.260 Because as we always know, there's a public story,

00:02:31.320 and then there's their story of what they're allowed to say.

00:02:35.640 There's lawyers, there's legal fees.

00:02:36.940 There's a lot of things that you look at what's happening right now

00:02:39.840 in our media sphere.

00:02:40.940 And you kind of got to wonder,

00:02:42.040 why are so many people under such tough scrutiny

00:02:46.040 when you look at the federal government and what they're doing?

00:02:51.060 They're getting away with way much horrible behavior

00:02:54.480 that definitely deserves to be scrutinized, but never is.

00:02:57.720 So I'm really looking forward to that conversation.

00:03:00.360 If you want to follow me,

00:03:01.180 check me out on youtube.com forward slash we are change.

00:03:04.220 I release videos there almost every single day.

00:03:06.480 I've been doing this for 18, 19 years now, way too long.

00:03:10.520 I think me and James started to, I think,

00:03:14.060 release videos around the same time as well.

00:03:16.100 I remember hearing about them.

00:03:17.940 We interviewed each other throughout the years.

00:03:20.600 We actually did projects with each other throughout the years.

00:03:24.140 And it's crazy.

00:03:25.900 I mean, I've been working with you for-

00:03:27.860 Since Occupy.

00:03:28.820 Since Occupy Wall Street.

00:03:30.040 What year was that?

00:03:31.040 That's 11 years.

00:03:32.020 Yeah, that's 12.

00:03:33.020 12 years now.

00:03:34.640 James, I've known in the industry for a very long time.

00:03:37.440 So we are very old boomers on our way out with diapers on.

00:03:43.160 And we've been around for a long time.

00:03:45.480 So you're going to hear a lot of wisdom from the elders today.

00:03:49.100 I love how boomer just means you're like old now.

00:03:51.960 When boomer literally refers to a generation of people.

00:03:54.600 See, I had no idea.

00:03:55.920 No, but this will be good.

00:03:57.840 You know, Luke and James have both been on the outside of the journalism industry.

00:04:03.340 Doing journalism though.

00:04:04.920 And having a massive impact.

00:04:06.740 I remember, man, this was like 11 years ago.

00:04:09.460 That you confronted, who is it?

00:04:11.720 Charlie Gibbs?

00:04:12.960 Peter King?

00:04:13.860 All of them.

00:04:14.540 All of them.

00:04:14.940 And then this made this like massive national story where they were all basically defending

00:04:21.440 Obama having executed an American citizens, plural.

00:04:24.580 And they were like, too bad.

00:04:26.220 And this is the stuff you don't get from the corporate press and the mainstream press.

00:04:29.340 Obviously now.

00:04:30.340 What I find fascinating is we're all on, you know, like YouTube and Twitter and all these

00:04:35.280 different platforms when these things are going down with the Obama administration.

00:04:40.380 You know, you've got Ron Paul calling this stuff out.

00:04:41.960 But we're all outside looking in and now it's starting to invert.

00:04:45.780 Now it's starting to change.

00:04:46.820 And the biggest stories are coming from people who are outside of the corporate journalism.

00:04:50.920 And now corporate journalism is basically just a bunch of garbage.

00:04:52.820 Yep.

00:04:53.360 James.

00:04:54.040 Hey.

00:04:55.340 Welcome.

00:04:55.980 We're just talking about, you know, Luke was talking about how he got started, how long

00:04:59.120 he's been producing videos.

00:05:00.980 And I was...

00:05:01.900 We're old, man.

00:05:03.040 Yeah, boomers.

00:05:04.440 Luke looks...

00:05:05.840 As soon as you, what, hit 40, you're a boomer.

00:05:07.860 I don't think anyone here is 40, though.

00:05:09.440 I got one year until then.

00:05:11.080 One more year?

00:05:12.360 So, James, what's going on?

00:05:13.700 Oh, look, the doggy.

00:05:15.900 It's Biden's dog, right?

00:05:17.320 The German Shepherd.

00:05:18.140 No, no, no.

00:05:18.660 The opposite of Biden's dog.

00:05:19.940 This one's well-trained and well-behaved.

00:05:23.260 Well, great to be here.

00:05:24.700 Yeah, what's going on, man?

00:05:25.700 How are you doing?

00:05:26.380 What is it?

00:05:26.920 I got sued again.

00:05:29.260 I sent you that clip.

00:05:30.940 I get sued so much.

00:05:32.540 So, dealing with that.

00:05:33.980 Yeah.

00:05:34.400 Lots of thoughts to talk about.

00:05:35.800 Well, yeah.

00:05:36.220 Where do you want to start?

00:05:36.920 You want to talk about what...

00:05:38.640 I don't know how much you can talk about with Project Veritas.

00:05:40.640 But my understanding is they're gone?

00:05:44.040 I guess so.

00:05:45.260 I mean, I saw the headline in the video I sent you.

00:05:47.800 So, there's like 30 lawyers now glommed on onto a lawsuit against me from years ago.

00:05:54.520 See, Tim, when I was there, I got sued personally for the journalism that was done, which is fine.

00:06:02.400 I'm the leader.

00:06:02.940 I'm happy to take the arrows.

00:06:05.420 But, you know, journalism that not necessarily I did.

00:06:08.140 I was a leader, but my journalist didn't get sued.

00:06:10.620 The people who handled the sources, I got sued.

00:06:12.540 So, there was that foundation that was there to defend and pay for all of that.

00:06:16.660 So, now that's apparently gone.

00:06:19.200 Now, I have to defend.

00:06:20.520 And I just posted this thing this week.

00:06:23.020 It's a pretty fascinating, detailed summary of what's going on.

00:06:26.900 And someone sent me an email from the outgoing chief financial officer of Veritas stating, quote,

00:06:33.820 walling off funds to sue O'Keefe at the expense of PV is an example of putting personal vindication against the best interest of the organization, which is remarkable.

00:06:42.620 When I left, when I was removed, they had about maybe $8 million cash.

00:06:46.960 They spent all of it in six months.

00:06:48.640 I don't know what they spent.

00:06:49.440 I don't know.

00:06:49.960 So, my lawyer supports a full forensic audit of that.

00:06:54.000 So, when all this was going down and, you know, they ousted you or whatever it was, and then you get this letter that comes out saying,

00:07:01.600 James did these horrible things, but then it also says, we actually didn't witness him do any of these things.

00:07:05.440 We're just signing the letter anyway.

00:07:07.640 One of the, you know, I've worked at nonprofits before, and my assumption was, and again, I'm going to say this knowing I don't know how much you can say considering they're saying.

00:07:14.960 It's pretty transparent.

00:07:16.060 I don't, I'm not ashamed of it.

00:07:17.920 When people always say, can you say something, it's predicated on the fact you've done something wrong.

00:07:22.980 So, I'm happy to talk about it.

00:07:24.660 My biggest, and I will talk about it, my biggest thing I really want to talk about is the citizen journalism, because you're here,

00:07:30.940 and I want to get his thoughts on training citizen journalists, and like what Elon has talked about.

00:07:34.880 We'll get there.

00:07:36.000 I think, I said this before, I think that someone was basically trying to steal money.

00:07:39.000 One of the biggest obstacles to extracting resources is going to be an idealistic founder who has a vision and is protecting what the organization is supposed to be doing.

00:07:52.300 And I've seen this before with other companies.

00:07:53.940 Someone gets brought in, and they get dollar signs in the eyes.

00:07:56.840 They're like, look at this, look, $8 million in the bank, $10 million in the bank.

00:08:01.080 How do I get that?

00:08:02.180 How do I get money for myself?

00:08:03.880 Uh-oh.

00:08:04.440 I think that's right.

00:08:05.100 The guy who founded it is idealistic and won't let me touch it.

00:08:08.400 Let's get rid of it.

00:08:09.000 I think that's exactly what I talked about in your show last time, which is sort of the idea of the, when you, you know,

00:08:13.900 and you were there in the beginning, like the garage phase.

00:08:16.300 You came, Luke, you came over, and it was very humble, humble, humble beginnings.

00:08:20.040 I mean, and it still is.

00:08:21.100 I mean, I'm rebuilding now.

00:08:23.260 But it's like they take a backwards-looking focus and say, why did, why is James taking all these risks in the first place?

00:08:31.360 I can do it better.

00:08:32.820 I can do it better than him.

00:08:35.100 That's just human nature.

00:08:36.160 It's just what people do.

00:08:37.580 And they look at these numbers, and whenever we get a check, I never celebrate when we get checks.

00:08:42.480 And sometimes people will be like, wow.

00:08:43.960 And they hold, you know, human.

00:08:45.680 Oh, wow.

00:08:46.900 Half a million.

00:08:47.880 I'm like, do you have any idea?

00:08:49.920 I actually would say this in the water cooler.

00:08:52.260 Do you have any idea how much blood, sweat, tears, sacrifice, FBI raids, time in hotel rooms away from loved ones?

00:09:01.960 People don't think about it that way.

00:09:03.580 All they see is, oh, look, the 990 says they have a $20 million budget, $6 million on lawyers.

00:09:11.240 So, I mean, listen, I've talked about this a lot.

00:09:14.000 I'm happy to talk about it again.

00:09:15.240 I think the thing I've learned is really human nature.

00:09:18.360 I'm 39 years old, and I've generally, throughout my life, believed in the best in people.

00:09:23.580 And I've recently learned that, nah, human nature is pretty wicked.

00:09:27.720 And most people are shit, to be honest with you.

00:09:30.320 But there's goodness in people.

00:09:32.720 I just, I think it's a yin-yang, man.

00:09:35.160 There's, I think there's light and there's dark.

00:09:36.700 There's good and there's bad.

00:09:37.500 And you just got to be careful about the bad people because they'll pretend to be good.

00:09:40.980 But to your point, especially in politics, media attracts a lot of narcissists.

00:09:47.240 And I'm an artistic soul.

00:09:52.860 I believe in, I'm a journalistic person.

00:09:55.360 I tell stories, and that's what gets me going.

00:09:58.080 But most of the people in this business are attracted to glomming on to fame and whatever

00:10:04.520 their perception is about fortune and fame and image.

00:10:08.400 And that's just a toxic thing.

00:10:11.380 Thanks for the morning black pill there, James.

00:10:15.020 Let me, hold on.

00:10:16.100 Let me take this one down.

00:10:18.000 Hold on.

00:10:18.080 After everything that happened, I don't blame you.

00:10:20.060 I just think, you know, you've, man, you've run into some demons.

00:10:24.900 You know what I mean?

00:10:25.440 Well, when you get to the, what happens when you get to the truth?

00:10:27.700 What happens when you really get to the truth?

00:10:29.660 What happens when you're so over the target?

00:10:31.520 You know, you're dropping, you're dropping video journalistic bombs.

00:10:35.000 I mean, I mean, right over the target.

00:10:37.040 We're looking at that video of the best president of Pfizer there.

00:10:39.800 I mean, when the FBI points guns at me and stuff like that, when you are so over the truth,

00:10:44.720 you will bring out the demons.

00:10:46.400 Yeah.

00:10:46.780 I mean, especially when you're exposing, you know, the child trafficking operations that

00:10:51.200 is being run with your tax dollars and protected by, you know, the Federal Bureau of

00:10:55.520 Investigations.

00:10:56.400 Yeah.

00:10:56.880 Then you get into, you know, people who are angry that you're dropping these bombs, that

00:11:02.160 you're exposing a lot of what they're doing behind the scenes.

00:11:04.700 But I really wanted to kind of hone in and focus a little bit because I've been through

00:11:09.300 a very similar situation that you have been a couple of years ago where I lost my organization.

00:11:14.220 I had all my resources taken away from me.

00:11:16.260 I was defamed.

00:11:16.940 I was attacked.

00:11:17.560 I pretty much lost everything.

00:11:19.180 And I had to rebuild brand new again and again.

00:11:21.820 But I wanted to, we could get into this later or maybe now, the specific lessons you learned

00:11:27.200 throughout your trials, because there's a lot of other people who have companies.

00:11:31.880 There's a lot of other people who have organizations who are trying to do good.

00:11:35.520 I kind of wanted to learn your learning lesson other than, you know, dealing with sociopaths,

00:11:41.000 which there's a lot of, especially in Washington, D.C.

00:11:43.380 In Washington, D.C., by the way, there's more sociopaths per capita than anywhere else in

00:11:49.280 the world.

00:11:51.080 So for some reason, that occult symbolic place that has a lot of Freemasonic streets and numbers

00:12:01.660 and statues and streets keeps aggregating some of just the worst human beings on the planet.

00:12:08.760 You know, it has to be a coincidence.

00:12:12.100 But I don't know if we want to get into this now, but I wouldn't want to learn.

00:12:17.660 Because what happened to me happened a long time ago.

00:12:20.760 What happened to you happened now.

00:12:22.480 What's the latest kind of call to approach?

00:12:23.700 Was that organization, We Are Change?

00:12:25.580 No, no, it was another organization.

00:12:28.380 Well, thank you for the question.

00:12:30.380 I feel like I could write, you know, a Shakespearean novel in three parts.

00:12:35.800 It's part of the challenge.

00:12:36.940 I think the bottom line up front is what I've learned is you really have to surround yourself

00:12:41.500 with really good people.

00:12:42.840 And I know that's a cliche and we all hear it, but I think I did taking accountability

00:12:48.480 for my, you know, I think I did a poor job of selecting people and sometimes things aren't

00:12:55.120 what they seem, which is ironic because I'm an undercover journalist for a living.

00:12:58.300 You got to undercover sting your employees, huh?

00:12:59.940 No, I think you just have to find people who are incredibly strong, I mean, and have good

00:13:05.780 character and are not for sale.

00:13:09.420 And I don't have any evidence of someone, you know, like taking a bribe.

00:13:13.140 That's not what I mean.

00:13:14.100 It could be the case.

00:13:15.440 I just mean like you have to find people who are willing to go to war with you.

00:13:20.400 And if you're in jail, they have to be willing to go to jail with you, not because you've

00:13:23.780 done anything illegal.

00:13:25.340 And what is their price?

00:13:28.120 You know, what is your price?

00:13:29.040 That's the question I really have to ask is what's your price?

00:13:31.980 Because if your price is...

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00:14:30.740 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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00:14:41.300 our clients that we really care about you.

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00:14:58.000 Did I mention that we care?

00:15:00.740 $30 million, then someone will give you $30 million to sell out your cause.

00:15:06.060 You really have to believe.

00:15:08.460 And the irony is everyone will say they believe.

00:15:10.420 Of course, I believe.

00:15:11.980 But that doesn't mean anything.

00:15:13.340 So I think the lesson is surround yourself with good people.

00:15:16.260 This thing here you're looking at, just to give you a window into my week, because I

00:15:21.960 think it's on point, I was sued by, I did this story on a postal worker in 2020 who claimed

00:15:28.180 he overheard his supervisor backdating ballots.

00:15:31.100 You may remember this story.

00:15:32.200 Oh, yeah.

00:15:32.740 And I get sued.

00:15:34.340 And then the word Trump is mentioned in this lawsuit 198 times.

00:15:38.300 My name is mentioned about 200 times.

00:15:41.060 And there's all these lawyers from Protect Democracy, which is a $50 million nonprofit,

00:15:47.420 white shoe law firms.

00:15:48.920 And they're all suing me personally.

00:15:51.320 So it's, you know, I said to you last time, getting arrows from the, from the, from, I'm

00:15:57.240 getting arrows from all sides.

00:15:58.960 And I think that's just where we are as a country right now.

00:16:02.860 Yeah.

00:16:03.180 And then they come at your back.

00:16:04.540 And I, and I called that guy for comment.

00:16:06.300 It's like, I did the journalistic thing that I'm supposed to do, which is he goes on the

00:16:10.180 record.

00:16:10.480 And then I call up the supervisor.

00:16:11.840 Hey, what do you think?

00:16:12.380 He's like, I'm not going to talk to reporters like you.

00:16:14.460 He hangs up the phone.

00:16:15.100 I put that in the piece and I published the story.

00:16:18.100 Now, what's ironic about this is that the people who are suing me, uh, have all written

00:16:24.520 white papers saying that the actual malice standard for defamation needs to be higher.

00:16:29.200 So they're arguing against their own lawsuit.

00:16:32.900 I think higher, I think, yeah, it's already damn near impossible.

00:16:35.860 I know.

00:16:36.240 So the true story, a true story, Luke, is I think just finding good people is, is, is

00:16:41.100 in this business is hard.

00:16:43.800 You mentioned, you know, what's your number if it's, if it's $30 million.

00:16:46.680 And I'm wondering if the, the, the, the old, the old trope or narrative is that you get

00:16:52.900 a guy who's fighting this, this, this big fight and he's going on his show, he's going

00:16:55.780 on YouTube, he's doing journalism.

00:16:57.440 And then one day there's a knock on the door and someone walks up and says, we got a really

00:17:00.820 great job for you at CNN, $10 million a year.

00:17:03.480 How does that sound?

00:17:04.080 Oliver Darcy is an example.

00:17:05.360 Oh, perfect example.

00:17:06.400 That guy is evil.

00:17:07.600 Perfect.

00:17:08.000 He used to work for a conservative group called the Leadership Institute where I worked.

00:17:11.340 And, and you could see his whole thing change.

00:17:15.560 People want, they want money.

00:17:18.240 It's about money.

00:17:19.140 It's about power.

00:17:20.220 It's about fame.

00:17:21.220 And I'm not, I'm, by the way, I believe black pill thing.

00:17:24.020 I'm still, I'm still an optimist.

00:17:26.320 I still believe in the truth.

00:17:27.860 I just think we're, you know, it's getting pretty scary out there.

00:17:31.980 Yes.

00:17:32.360 And, and throughout my years, cause I think we've been in the business about the same

00:17:37.480 time, I think right now we're, we're reaching a time where it's really more dangerous than

00:17:42.940 it ever has been kind of before, especially when it comes to journalism, especially when

00:17:46.380 it comes to reporting, especially when it comes to just kind of speaking the truth in

00:17:49.740 the face of all this power.

00:17:51.460 But, but to, to continue this conversation, did you develop any kind of tips or tricks

00:17:56.460 to, to, to see if someone is a good person?

00:17:59.080 Discern.

00:17:59.120 Some people say eye contact.

00:18:00.860 Are there, are there any, like, there's a few things you can do.

00:18:03.340 The first thing you do is hold a mirror to them.

00:18:04.960 And if there's no reflection, right, you, you, red flag, do you have holy water, garlic?

00:18:10.640 What do you got here?

00:18:11.660 What do you, you don't have to tell us if it's, if it's insider, there's nothing, there's

00:18:15.960 nothing secret about, I mean, I mean, but, but is there an over, is there something in

00:18:19.720 common with all the people who backstabbed you, uh, then the, then comparatively to the

00:18:24.820 people who were there that, that you saw signs early on?

00:18:27.080 I mean, I did a live stream on Friday on Instagram, just a fun, little fundraiser for my lawyer

00:18:30.420 bills.

00:18:31.420 It's one of the great ironies and tragedies of my life is that I, I had to raise and spend

00:18:35.620 six million a year on lawyers.

00:18:36.660 And now that's foundation's completely gone and they're gunning for me.

00:18:39.380 So I did this fundraiser and, and I'm still getting texts from these people.

00:18:42.320 And I know that they're watching, they're obsessively watching everything I do, Tim, right.

00:18:46.380 Even probably right now.

00:18:47.480 And, and one of them texted me, one of them said, I want you to commit suicide.

00:18:51.720 Whoa.

00:18:53.060 Yeah.

00:18:53.460 It was a former, a former, uh, project Veritas guy.

00:18:55.740 Yeah.

00:18:56.120 Board member.

00:18:57.080 So, so, so I don't want to get too spiritual here because I want to get into the journal,

00:19:02.280 first amendment stuff, but like it's, it's, it's, it's deep, it, it cuts deep.

00:19:07.560 And a lot of times people project their own, when you get over the truth, they, they, it

00:19:13.300 almost seems like you hold a mirror up to people and they don't like what they see and they have

00:19:18.120 problems with themselves and it's, and it's psychological.

00:19:21.220 It's, it's probably spiritual.

00:19:23.020 I never thought that I would be in that dimension.

00:19:25.420 I know that you are, I never thought that I'd, I'm a first amendment guy who likes to show

00:19:30.680 people thing, reality.

00:19:32.800 I never thought I'd be in a psychological, but here we are with, you know, you want to

00:19:36.080 commit suicide.

00:19:37.060 It was also very Maoist, Tim, very communist.

00:19:39.780 It's like, he takes a black car.

00:19:41.460 I mean, it's like, well, that's because the chief executive officer has to raise 75,000 a

00:19:44.540 day.

00:19:45.100 And you want me to be in an Uber carpool?

00:19:47.400 I mean, what, what exactly?

00:19:49.020 And then you begin to realize, whoa.

00:19:49.620 You want me to take the bus?

00:19:51.020 But they do, but they do.

00:19:52.240 And then you realize, oh, oh, this is, this is a very, it was a very Maoist sort of communist

00:19:56.500 approach.

00:19:57.660 I say, well, why are right-wingers behaving like communists?

00:20:00.480 So, you know.

00:20:01.140 They're actually communists.

00:20:02.640 You know, you know.

00:20:03.300 Statists.

00:20:03.800 When I was younger, when I was a teenager, I had this, you know, philosophical point of my

00:20:09.800 life.

00:20:10.020 I'm like, there's no good in evil.

00:20:11.260 There's just competing interests.

00:20:12.340 Everyone thinks they're doing the right thing.

00:20:13.880 And boy, was that naive.

00:20:15.560 I seriously, I remember having these conversations when I was, you know, early 20s.

00:20:18.940 And I'm just like, well, look, you know, these people think they're doing the right thing

00:20:21.880 for them.

00:20:22.260 And these people think they're doing the right thing for them.

00:20:23.700 And then you get older and you meet demons.

00:20:25.460 I mean that figuratively, but some people might mean it literally.

00:20:27.540 You meet people where you're just flabbergasted at how evil they can be.

00:20:32.640 And I'm left bewildered because I'm like, the actions you have taken do not financially

00:20:36.820 benefit you.

00:20:37.760 They are just chaos, destruction, and causing suffering.

00:20:40.900 And, you know, so I've been backstabbed by some people and it blows my effing mind.

00:20:47.960 I'm like, for what reason did you do this?

00:20:51.060 And so what I find truly fascinating is there's this trope about these video games where you're

00:20:55.980 able to choose like a karmic path.

00:20:57.740 So a lot of the role-playing games that come out on, you know, PlayStation or PC, you can

00:21:01.400 choose the evil route or the good route.

00:21:02.920 And there are people who are always posting online about how it's so difficult to play an

00:21:06.960 evil character.

00:21:08.000 And what I find with these games is there doesn't seem to be rhyme or reason to the

00:21:12.160 evil path in a storyline.

00:21:14.340 And then I think, and I think about it now and I'm like, yeah, why would you want to do

00:21:17.460 that in that game?

00:21:18.360 But then you meet these people who for seemingly no reason will burn things down, destroy and

00:21:23.360 smile as they harm people.

00:21:25.240 And you're like, now I get it.

00:21:26.120 Yeah, I had that done to me by someone who I thought was my best friend in the industry

00:21:30.480 many, many years ago.

00:21:32.460 But, you know, I've been talking about, you know, demons and these entities for a very long

00:21:39.000 time.

00:21:39.240 And everyone's like, you're being sensationalistic.

00:21:41.760 You're being outrageous.

00:21:42.520 You're being crazy here.

00:21:44.380 No, I'm not.

00:21:45.340 There is a larger energetic spiritual warfare out there.

00:21:49.300 I think it's becoming more apparent.

00:21:51.420 I think some people have been just aware of it a little bit longer.

00:21:54.380 But when you look into your kind of intuition, when you look into your gut, when you see

00:21:57.900 what's happening, when you experience the things you experience, especially in this

00:22:00.740 movement, there's no denying that there's something greater out there, energetic out

00:22:04.720 there, that is a larger fight between good and evil.

00:22:07.520 That's how I interpret it.

00:22:08.600 That's how I see it.

00:22:09.540 And it is demons versus...

00:22:12.260 It changes you when you're raided by the feds.

00:22:14.580 And I said, it's like, you know, those agents in my apartment, there were like 10 of them.

00:22:18.600 And I think half of them are probably just doing a job.

00:22:21.000 And it just totally changes you because you go, whoa, human nature.

00:22:25.340 I mean, the pension and the paycheck, the pension and the paycheck.

00:22:28.640 And even in my organization, I found the paycheck.

00:22:30.920 It was all about the pay.

00:22:31.880 Well, I'm going to go along with this because there's still...

00:22:34.760 Until the money ran out.

00:22:36.580 But anyway, I have a lot of positive, optimistic things to say.

00:22:41.120 We'll get there here in a moment.

00:22:42.420 So I'll just say one final thing.

00:22:44.100 Like I had a friend that I used to skate with a lot back when I was a teenager.

00:22:48.060 And then, you know, in the past couple of years, all of a sudden, this person is going

00:22:52.840 on social media and just making everything they can make up.

00:22:55.900 And I'm like, this is the weirdest thing.

00:22:57.300 Like I'd go to this guy's house.

00:22:58.980 We'd order pizza.

00:23:00.000 We'd watch skate videos.

00:23:00.960 We hang out every day.

00:23:03.420 We jam and play music together.

00:23:05.240 And now this person, like just all of a sudden, they're possessed.

00:23:09.240 It's the craziest thing.

00:23:10.100 What do you think the reason was?

00:23:11.500 Man, I just think, I think perhaps some people have always been evil.

00:23:16.020 We just didn't see it.

00:23:17.200 Because when the person had nothing to leech off of you and nothing to destroy, you were

00:23:21.680 just there.

00:23:22.780 And so it's easy for me to sit on a couch and watch music videos and play video games

00:23:28.460 with a demon because the demon says, I have nothing.

00:23:32.340 There is no pleasure.

00:23:33.220 There's no joy.

00:23:33.860 This person is insignificant.

00:23:35.400 Then you come into success.

00:23:37.880 You start working hard.

00:23:38.900 And now they're like, now's my chance.

00:23:41.320 Something to burn.

00:23:42.460 Something to destroy.

00:23:43.340 So really quick anecdote.

00:23:44.600 So the missing piece here is when the Pfizer story broke, what was told to me, what was

00:23:50.260 people were calling me and people thought that, you know, someone took a bribe.

00:23:53.320 I don't know that.

00:23:54.160 I don't have any evidence of that.

00:23:55.120 What I do have evidence is of this.

00:23:57.120 I say, you know, James O'Keefe has nothing to do with the success of this story and nothing

00:24:04.140 to do with the success of this company.

00:24:05.600 That's what was said to people, which is crazy because I said, well, I'm in the video.

00:24:10.900 I said, well, you're not the one who secretly recorded the guy.

00:24:13.680 I was like, well, but I recruited the guy who did.

00:24:16.260 I'm the leader of the...

00:24:17.720 It's communism.

00:24:18.620 I'm the leader of the firm.

00:24:19.840 I'm taking all the risks.

00:24:21.000 I'm raising all the money.

00:24:21.720 I actually think a lot of people didn't, some of the people, not all of them, half people

00:24:25.380 didn't realize just all that I was doing and responsible for.

00:24:29.300 Because, and that's how it works in a Bolshevik, Maoist sense.

00:24:34.280 They just think this guy on the top and you see it with AOC and, you know, Bezos can't

00:24:39.580 have a helipad in New York City.

00:24:41.120 Right.

00:24:41.940 How do you expect me to raise all the money to pay all the lawyers and make sure you have

00:24:46.920 food for your families unless I'm running around the country getting the money?

00:24:50.600 Where do you think the money comes from?

00:24:51.800 Well, here's the, you know, here's the open window, I suppose, with the closed door.

00:24:55.440 While I certainly think it's kind of crazy that what happened to Project Veritas, it

00:25:01.340 does create that beautiful example of why communism doesn't work.

00:25:04.500 The people who are saying, James has nothing to do with this, and then they lit $8 million

00:25:09.020 on fire.

00:25:10.360 Yeah, I want to know what happened to that money.

00:25:11.860 That was hard earned.

00:25:13.820 I wasn't traveling around in cars for my health.

00:25:17.720 I would rather go be at home in the evening or do my journalism.

00:25:21.460 But I was doing that to indemnify these journalists, right?

00:25:25.040 What does that mean?

00:25:25.740 For those of you who don't know what indemnify means, I was raising all this money so that

00:25:29.220 I could make sure that they were protected.

00:25:31.560 Spencer and Eric were raided by the FBI, and it costs a lot of money.

00:25:36.420 And the first thing that I thought is, how are we going to pay these lawyers when I'm

00:25:42.080 gone?

00:25:42.520 I mean, we need to stick together.

00:25:44.980 And they burned through it all.

00:25:46.580 But I do think it's a blessing in a way.

00:25:49.460 God sort of saying, there's a different way, a different path.

00:25:53.740 You, Tim, said, they liberated me to pursue a different kind of mission and a different

00:25:58.400 kind of vision.

00:25:58.980 Because I do think the model of infiltrating with 20 full-time undercover journalists is

00:26:06.680 not a sustainable or long-term viable path.

00:26:09.820 I think, like Elon has tweeted this out, I think we need to empower.

00:26:13.540 And what Luke has done, train, educate people, educate citizen journalists so that there's

00:26:21.080 thousands of them, not all on my payroll.

00:26:24.000 I think that's a help.

00:26:24.760 And I also think people need skin in the game.

00:26:27.860 Tim, everyone, every day, people say to me,

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00:27:57.100 Well, I got this problem.

00:28:01.460 Can you help me?

00:28:02.320 And it's, I'm finding that, yes, I'm giving a lot of my time, but a lot of them won't actually

00:28:08.360 do it.

00:28:08.900 They need to like buy into a course, buy a camera, right?

00:28:12.660 I'm sure you've seen this.

00:28:13.540 Yeah, it's not just on your payroll.

00:28:15.840 It's also your liability.

00:28:17.440 So you left your organization where someone could come in and, you know, sabotage and

00:28:21.860 do bad stuff to it.

00:28:22.880 And I remember when I lost my organization, my organization originally was canvassing,

00:28:28.420 hitting the streets, giving out flyers, giving out DVDs, talking to people in the streets.

00:28:31.980 And then I lost it all.

00:28:33.240 There was a big battle, very similar to what you went through.

00:28:35.420 And I'm like, why?

00:28:36.800 I can't believe I lost all these resources and all these things.

00:28:39.560 And I'm like, you know, what am I going to do now?

00:28:41.840 I started to make videos.

00:28:43.320 I wouldn't have started to make videos if I didn't lose my canvassing organization, my

00:28:48.880 organization that reached out to people and talked to people and did all the little stuff

00:28:53.060 that's irrelevant right now and doesn't work as well as video production.

00:28:56.500 So I think, you know, looking back at a lot of the problems within the organizations that

00:29:04.000 I was involved in, when I see what happens, I felt not only more liberated, but on a better

00:29:10.400 path afterwards, even though I didn't understand when it was happening in the first place.

00:29:14.680 But because I was just like, whatever, I just got to keep doing something else, that something

00:29:20.260 else was way better, way more effective and something that worked, you know, in such a

00:29:25.860 more cohesive way than what I was doing previously before, which was wrong, but I didn't know

00:29:30.520 it was wrong.

00:29:31.540 So that's the way that I always try to see these things.

00:29:35.280 I also do believe demonic possession is real.

00:29:38.020 There are individuals that are hijacked, that are open to other entities.

00:29:41.620 There's a reason Abrina Abrovimich tries to call in demons with spirit cooking.

00:29:45.720 There's a reason a lot of these people have a cult, Abrina Abrovimich.

00:29:49.840 Are you sure?

00:29:50.700 Yeah.

00:29:51.900 Marina Abrovimich.

00:29:53.020 You said Abrina.

00:29:54.140 I was like, wait.

00:29:54.620 Marina, Marina, you know, but there's a reason there's a lot of occult rituals and sacrifices

00:30:02.280 and rituals that a lot of these people do.

00:30:04.220 And it's not an accident.

00:30:06.440 I mean, I got to say, I don't know about all that, but I can tell you, I have had experiences

00:30:09.600 in my life where it's like someone was possessed.

00:30:13.660 It's like someone you know and trust.

00:30:15.640 And then one day they're evil.

00:30:17.040 And I'm just like, what happened?

00:30:18.560 Their eyes change.

00:30:19.560 Their voice change.

00:30:20.620 Everything just changes about them in a second.

00:30:23.140 And then they're literally just trying to say things and to try to, you know, anger you

00:30:30.020 as much as they can.

00:30:30.760 You know, it kind of freaks me out is like, if that's true, then the story would be your

00:30:36.080 good friend became possessed and all they needed was an exorcism to be restored.

00:30:42.720 Instead, they're thrust off to the darkness and lost forever.

00:30:46.220 It's crazy, right?

00:30:50.060 It's a hard one.

00:30:51.040 What do you do?

00:30:52.060 Like take your friend to a secret exorcism intervention?

00:30:55.920 I think it's just, this is a really important, the conversation we're having right now is

00:31:00.860 the issue, I think.

00:31:01.860 The deeper we go, the more on target I am, you are, the more like the people around you

00:31:08.060 have to be like, it's almost like they have to be disciples.

00:31:10.820 And I hesitate to use that word, but you have to, you have to find people who are just absolutely

00:31:15.300 bonded, like blood brothers and loyal to a cause and, and, and loyal to each other.

00:31:20.740 And, but, but what I've found is that when you're really, really, really effective and

00:31:25.660 over the target, the incentive to, for lack of a better word, betray you or to sell out

00:31:31.780 or to give you, you know, it's almost like, you know, you know, there's no, unless you're

00:31:37.000 really, truly driven by the mission, um, you're, you're, you're going to just sell out.

00:31:42.640 You're, you're, look at like Oliver Darcy.

00:31:44.180 I mean, look at what happened to that man.

00:31:46.220 He's pathetic, right?

00:31:48.420 Working for CNN, working for the state, he's a journalist and he, and he, and he gave up

00:31:52.300 his soul.

00:31:52.820 He got recruited.

00:31:53.900 Right, but that's what they do to people.

00:31:55.100 Yeah.

00:31:55.840 And it's hard to build things.

00:31:57.740 It's easy.

00:31:58.540 You mentioned to destroy, easy, very easy to destroy something.

00:32:00.980 Very hard to build.

00:32:02.420 So you, so Luke's, your question is a really good one.

00:32:04.520 I'm, I'm, I'm still figuring that out.

00:32:06.140 What, what is, how do you discern in people?

00:32:08.820 I think it's something you look at the resume, if they've done something remarkable in their

00:32:12.040 life, something extra, if they built something, have no, do they have the right core values?

00:32:17.060 But it's hard because you have to kind of go through it with them to figure out even

00:32:21.220 this process I've been through has been a cleansing process.

00:32:23.420 I've been able to identify who the real people are and who the real people are.

00:32:26.260 You have to go through it.

00:32:27.520 You know, it, it is crazy to experience.

00:32:29.920 There, there are some people that are, you know, I made the mirror joke because they're

00:32:33.900 vampires figuratively.

00:32:36.140 They, they don't want to build stuff.

00:32:38.280 They don't want to make stuff.

00:32:39.120 They want to extract.

00:32:40.900 They want to just take things.

00:32:42.320 They don't want to work.

00:32:43.480 They want power.

00:32:44.440 They want control.

00:32:45.280 And if you think about it, I'm, you know, I think about these things for a lot of these

00:32:48.580 individuals.

00:32:49.180 What, what is it?

00:32:49.880 Is it the money?

00:32:50.680 And it's, it's not really the money because what does money mean?

00:32:53.200 What they want is power over other people.

00:32:55.280 They want to be able to cause pain and control and, and, and, and assert.

00:33:00.000 And that's a crazy thing.

00:33:01.160 But I think what you're describing and this phenomenon we're describing of whether it's

00:33:05.380 demons or whatever, it's, it's, it's a larger component of the culture war.

00:33:09.080 If you look at what the left is and what they do, Oliver Darcy is a good example.

00:33:13.180 He's a guy who interviewed me in 2018 about censorship on, on Twitter at the time it was

00:33:19.260 Twitter.

00:33:19.440 And my point was, if they start saying alt-right must be banned, white nationalists can't speak,

00:33:25.500 then you are, you are creating the process by which you start excising political opinions

00:33:29.360 that, that run a file.

00:33:30.320 I mean, it's, it's Fahrenheit 451.

00:33:31.940 He interviews me about that.

00:33:33.140 He runs a story about that for Business Insider.

00:33:34.940 If you look where he is now, CNN lying, posting misleading and out of context statements to

00:33:40.880 manipulate the public.

00:33:42.240 It's, it's, he's, he's chosen the destruction of, of everyone else for personal benefit to be

00:33:48.060 a part of this machine.

00:33:49.300 And what he does is a larger component of what we are up against in the culture war.

00:33:54.060 That's right.

00:33:54.860 So you, you, you, you take 1000 Oliver Darcy's, you now have.

00:33:58.720 That's right.

00:33:59.220 Modern uniparty, modern Democrats, corrupt, even corrupt Republicans.

00:34:03.060 You have the woke, you have the ESG, and that's exactly what it is.

00:34:06.440 And people in the conservative movement.

00:34:08.340 I mean, it's, it's everywhere.

00:34:09.320 It's all around us.

00:34:10.120 It's human nature.

00:34:10.860 That's what we're, I, I, I think that's what I'm trying to say is that I'm a first amendment

00:34:15.680 guy, but I've learned that now, now it's human, it's psychological, it's spiritual, it's human

00:34:20.380 nature, but it gets right to the point of what is the solution?

00:34:24.240 And the solution is what Elon has been tweeting about citizen journalism and training and equipping,

00:34:31.040 which is the future for OMG, which is we're hosting our first paid webinar next week.

00:34:35.600 We've had a few hundred people buy this five course thing that I developed.

00:34:39.240 And I found that it's more sustainable and healthier when I put it back on the, on the

00:34:44.520 citizens.

00:34:45.000 Because again, people come to me, please, I'm a therapist, Tim, all day long.

00:34:48.480 People complain to me about their problems.

00:34:50.560 Can you come to Kansas?

00:34:51.600 Can you come to Hawaii?

00:34:52.700 I went to Maui for a week to expose it.

00:34:54.440 Just nonstop.

00:34:56.100 And I, and I find that it's almost like, gee, 90, 98% of these people aren't actually going

00:35:01.520 to do anything.

00:35:02.720 They, they need to make themselves feel better by complaining to me.

00:35:06.100 Yes.

00:35:06.740 Because then they feel like, well, I'm, Jamie James will do something.

00:35:10.220 And by the way, I'm happy to do, but I also, my time is valuable.

00:35:13.540 I can't spend 10 hours a day on the phone listening to you bitch about the problems in

00:35:18.500 the world.

00:35:18.840 You, you had that post on, on Twitter, on X and Instagram, where you said something

00:35:24.040 to the effect of if, if you are aware of the problems and you do nothing, then you are

00:35:28.760 responsible for the future, your chair, your, your children inherit.

00:35:31.720 Yes.

00:35:32.300 Something to that effect.

00:35:32.880 Yes.

00:35:33.120 Uh, I, I, I, I, I guess I made it a little bit more poignant, but inspired by what you

00:35:37.420 said, I said, do you really want your kids to live in the pod and eat the bugs?

00:35:42.460 Because all of these people come out and be like, I can't do anything because, you know,

00:35:45.560 I've, I've got to risk my family and things like that.

00:35:47.320 And I'm like, I totally get it.

00:35:48.100 I totally get it.

00:35:49.240 There's, there's the immediate dangers and I'm not going to pretend to know what that's

00:35:52.260 like.

00:35:52.900 Just, I hope you understand you can protect your kids today, but you, by doing nothing, you,

00:35:58.500 they will be living in pods and eating bugs.

00:36:00.180 That's very well said.

00:36:01.300 Yeah.

00:36:01.540 I, I've had, I have this conversation all the time where it's like, well, I have, I

00:36:04.400 have children and I, and I, and I don't have children.

00:36:06.220 So there's a part of me that doesn't fully understand because I'm sure that when I become

00:36:09.860 a father, maybe I'll, I'll feel differently.

00:36:11.820 And I also had a conversation yesterday with a source who said, well, maybe, maybe it's,

00:36:15.940 it's best not to bring children into this world.

00:36:18.080 And that's what Solzhenitsyn wrote in Gulag Archipelago.

00:36:20.540 You have to decide whether or not you, because it's unfair to your children.

00:36:23.080 And I, and I believe creating life is always a good thing, regardless of where we're headed in,

00:36:27.200 in society, but you must create life.

00:36:29.280 But yeah, that's, that's well said.

00:36:31.180 It's like, if you do nothing, then what, what are you doing for your children?

00:36:34.760 And, uh, but a lot of people don't really fully, truly care about the evil until it hits

00:36:39.960 them, until it happens to them, until it literally hits their skull.

00:36:44.900 They don't, they don't understand because they haven't been through what I've been through.

00:36:48.240 They haven't seen what I've seen in jail and FBI rated, you know, take your stuff at gunpoint,

00:36:52.840 have people around you sell you out for some other evil reason.

00:36:57.540 But listen, the, the, the, the, the, the good, the, the, the future is equipping and training.

00:37:04.060 And I want to ask you about when you did your, um, I still have it.

00:37:07.120 I still have my course.

00:37:08.080 Yeah.

00:37:08.260 And what, what, what have you found works with citizen journalists when you're training

00:37:11.980 them and equipping them?

00:37:13.040 I trained, um, a lot of people throughout the years.

00:37:16.100 Um, I, I, before getting into this topic that I, I kind of want to expand a little bit

00:37:20.000 about what you, uh, originally said, because it is true.

00:37:24.300 Once you are affected by this and, and you're dealing in a situation where you're being interrogated

00:37:30.000 or you're, you're having a literal fist or a boot on your face, uh, when you're going

00:37:35.480 through an injustice, then it all hits you.

00:37:37.660 I remember being, you know, a young child dealing with some of this injustices that, that led me

00:37:44.140 to where I am here today, but I, I think we're slowly encroaching a place where a lot of people

00:37:49.800 and their effects of the system on them is becoming so apparent that everyone's being

00:37:55.900 affected by this.

00:37:56.700 And it, it, it's, it's, it's absolutely tragic where we are seeing such horrible situations

00:38:03.220 with everyone's health, everyone's financial situation.

00:38:06.100 Those situations will only get worse.

00:38:08.460 The more we acquiesce, the more we comply, the more we bend over, the more we say, Hey,

00:38:12.320 let someone else do it.

00:38:14.260 Let someone else take care of this problem.

00:38:16.020 I'm just going to go along with it because if I do, if I put my head down, I'm going to

00:38:19.460 be okay.

00:38:19.900 And you will not, they will be roasting your buttocks.

00:38:24.540 They will be having their way with you, um, sooner or later.

00:38:29.140 And, and more importantly, not just you, you're the future of your, of your lineage.

00:38:33.240 But I don't even think for the most part, it is you.

00:38:34.980 I think that, you know, we talk about Neuralink.

00:38:37.880 We talk about the future.

00:38:38.740 They got these Amazon stores already at DCA airport where you scan your palm and then

00:38:42.520 it lets you in.

00:38:43.000 You can take whatever you want and walk right out.

00:38:44.340 All that stuff is coming.

00:38:45.840 And you have the luxury right now to say, I'm not going to do that.

00:38:49.160 I'm not going to scan my palm, but your children will, your children will walk into the store

00:38:54.140 and it'll say denied social credit score too low.

00:38:57.760 And so when people say today, I mean, I'll put it this way.

00:39:01.520 I always use the fire analogy.

00:39:02.940 You got a big house and there's a small grease fire on your stove.

00:39:07.360 And what's happening is people are like, well, look, it's a small fire.

00:39:10.700 I, I, you know, I, I think I'm fine.

00:39:12.720 I'm sitting here playing video games.

00:39:14.000 I think it'll be okay.

00:39:15.380 And then an hour later, now the fires hit the cabinets and you're like, it's still only

00:39:19.500 in the kitchen.

00:39:20.360 And then you're older and you're like, well, you know, I lived a good life.

00:39:23.700 Your whole house is burnt down.

00:39:25.180 And you're like, here you go, kids.

00:39:25.980 Here are the keys.

00:39:26.760 And you throw them the keys to a, to a smoltering pile of rubble.

00:39:28.900 But to unwind that citizen journalism aspect here, I do believe it is absolutely critical

00:39:35.700 at this juncture, because if you look at what's happening to Tucker Carlson, if you look at

00:39:40.120 what's happening to Elon Musk, if you look at what's happening to Alex Jones, if you look

00:39:43.440 at what's happening to James O'Keefe, Russell Brand, Russell Brand, everyone out there who

00:39:49.060 is making a stand against this is being targeted, being attacked in, in many underhanded ways.

00:39:54.660 And to deter people from doing it.

00:39:56.980 I mean, they want to look at my face and say, how is James doing?

00:40:00.200 Is he healthy?

00:40:01.000 Is he, is he scared?

00:40:02.340 They need to send a message.

00:40:04.720 Exactly.

00:40:05.360 So, so, um, I mean, I, I was asked to, um, I was asked to speak.

00:40:09.300 I tweeted this out to a retired community of FBI agents recently.

00:40:12.540 These are guys probably in their sixties and seventies.

00:40:14.160 And, and I talked to the person who invited me and I said, uh, would they have executed a

00:40:18.180 search warrant?

00:40:18.840 Like these no knock warrants against journalists?

00:40:20.720 Would they have done that?

00:40:21.820 And they didn't really give me a full answer.

00:40:24.060 So the pension, the paycheck, the pension and the paycheck is something that I'm fighting

00:40:28.820 against.

00:40:29.120 And the mortgage, people have mortgages.

00:40:31.140 And I think we're going to, we're entering a time in our world where people have to,

00:40:36.860 they are, is the material world that important to them?

00:40:40.920 Or is the truth important to them?

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00:41:45.220 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:41:49.640 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients

00:41:54.900 that we really care about you.

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00:42:05.020 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care.

00:42:10.720 Did I mention that we care?

00:42:14.800 So we have to figure out a way to inspire people to take action and to make sacrifices.

00:42:22.100 And there are people out there who say, well, they don't exist.

00:42:23.960 No.

00:42:24.740 Well, I think the people I'm talking to every day, a lot of good people in the world,

00:42:28.500 but they have kids, they have mortgages.

00:42:29.820 They may not be able to do it.

00:42:31.300 But if we create like a pipeline, a talent pipeline.

00:42:33.840 Exactly.

00:42:34.060 Where we put these classes out there and people, a few hundred people have bought them and they've

00:42:37.660 bought my cameras.

00:42:38.400 And we teach them.

00:42:39.160 We teach them.

00:42:40.060 Then there's actually skin in the game.

00:42:42.520 Teach them and guide them.

00:42:43.520 But more importantly, allow individuals to go after the system in many unorganized ways where

00:42:50.420 it's not coordinated by us.

00:42:52.140 But when an injustice happens, they're able to call it out, be on the front lines and then step back

00:42:57.240 instead of just having everyone continually on the front lines.

00:43:00.640 And you gave me chills just really quickly here because of what you said perfectly describes my

00:43:05.400 situation when I was at Bilderberg with the White House press corps getting drunk and hammered with

00:43:09.660 them four o'clock in the morning because I was talking to, again, the conversations were off

00:43:14.920 the record and I won't be naming the exact names of who I was talking to, but the biggest people in

00:43:19.520 the industry and they were telling me the same exact thing.

00:43:21.700 I have mortgages.

00:43:22.700 I got to pay rent.

00:43:23.520 I got to pay my bills.

00:43:24.760 And I'm like, are you kidding me?

00:43:26.480 And they're like, it's all, it's all I, we lie all the time.

00:43:29.500 It's all a scam.

00:43:30.280 We know we were just doing this because we need to get by.

00:43:33.160 And I'm like, holy frick.

00:43:34.260 Do you guys know what mortgage means?

00:43:36.660 Do you know the, the, the, the etymology of the word mortgage?

00:43:39.320 Do you know what mort is?

00:43:40.240 Mortis?

00:43:40.700 It has to do with death.

00:43:42.300 It means death pledge.

00:43:43.860 Hmm.

00:43:44.600 Mortgage.

00:43:45.020 I did not know that.

00:43:45.800 Mortis.

00:43:46.580 I did not know that.

00:43:47.900 I didn't know that.

00:43:48.820 Death pledge.

00:43:49.900 Isn't that something?

00:43:50.800 It, it, it is, it is, it is a very powerful, powerful tool.

00:43:55.380 And if you have a partner, does your partner align with your values?

00:43:58.020 Like a lot of my sources, Tim, they might be willing to do it.

00:44:01.040 What about their wife or their husband?

00:44:02.960 I've, I've had situations where someone is absolutely willing to jump on the proverbial

00:44:08.640 grenade, so to speak, but their partner isn't supportive or they have a mortgage or they have

00:44:12.760 children, but we need to instill courage.

00:44:15.320 People need to be amongst a community.

00:44:17.840 And I think that they're, they, they look up to me in the sense that they think, well,

00:44:21.140 James is doing this, but I think knowledge is power.

00:44:24.540 People, I mean, being journalism, it's not, I mean, especially if you're using recording

00:44:27.920 devices, right?

00:44:28.960 They need to understand the laws, how to use the equipment, the methods.

00:44:33.320 Ethics.

00:44:33.840 There has to be boundaries.

00:44:35.700 You know, we almost like a journalism, I don't even know what journalism school teaches

00:44:39.220 these days, but nothing, nothing.

00:44:40.760 I got kicked out of my journalism school.

00:44:42.640 What do they teach?

00:44:43.560 Politics?

00:44:43.840 They teach you how to do the AP style guide, which essentially means following people's

00:44:48.780 pronouns now, not misgendering people and just literally regurgitating press releases.

00:44:53.860 That's all they teach you right now.

00:44:55.040 That's not helpful.

00:44:55.920 So we, I think it would be very empowering to people if they actually were taught real

00:45:01.320 journalism and how to do it, because that's power.

00:45:04.240 That'll give them confidence.

00:45:05.440 And then a community of like-minded people.

00:45:07.800 That's basically what OMG is, is endeavoring to do.

00:45:10.580 You know, it was crazy to me when I got started, uh, actually, you know, I'm at Occupy

00:45:14.300 Wall Street.

00:45:14.660 I was doing more, uh, hacker stuff, uh, activism stuff related to data and things like that,

00:45:20.040 social engineering.

00:45:21.080 And I go down, I meet Luke at Occupy.

00:45:23.320 I start filming.

00:45:24.220 I start live streaming.

00:45:25.780 People ask me, you know, within the next couple of years, I'm working at Vice and at these

00:45:29.080 companies and say, how do I do what you do?

00:45:30.560 I really want to do it.

00:45:31.760 And I would be like, oh, it's really easy.

00:45:33.300 You take your phone and you point it at something and then you record it.

00:45:36.240 But I'm not, it's not a joke.

00:45:37.680 I mean-

00:45:37.860 No, it's so, but it's a, it's funny that you say that.

00:45:40.360 Yeah.

00:45:40.500 Quite literally, I went down to Occupy and I had a phone and I started using Ustream and streaming.

00:45:44.660 And then people started sharing it because they wanted to see.

00:45:48.520 And, uh, but here's the other crazy thing that I learned too, is, uh, uh, I'd get emails

00:45:53.000 all the time from people around, you know, 2013, 2014 and still to this day, obviously,

00:45:56.940 but back then I'm traveling around for Vice.

00:45:59.480 You know, I go to New Zealand, I go to Turkey and I get all these emails from people being

00:46:02.480 like, you're living my dream.

00:46:03.700 I want to do what you do.

00:46:04.640 How do I do it?

00:46:05.640 And the first thing I say is you just need to go places in film, start small.

00:46:08.700 You know, I went to Occupy Wall Street, it cost me 20 bucks.

00:46:11.060 And they were like, okay, but you know, I have rent.

00:46:13.900 And I have, I have to pay my bills.

00:46:16.260 That is so interesting.

00:46:17.260 And so I, I remember talking to a friend who lived in Williamsburg and had like a, you

00:46:21.780 know, paid 1200 bucks a month on rent or whatever.

00:46:24.360 And they were like, how do I do this?

00:46:27.160 Get to travel to these countries.

00:46:28.260 And I was like, well, obviously you've got to start small, but I'd recommend, you know,

00:46:31.000 buying a phone, you know, maybe, maybe fly to a city when you know there's a news story

00:46:34.380 happening or something, there's going to be a protest, film it, document it.

00:46:36.700 And they said, but I have to pay my rent.

00:46:39.320 And I was like, all you've said to me right now is your apartment in Williamsburg is more

00:46:44.540 important to you than doing the journalism.

00:46:46.880 You said it was 20 bucks.

00:46:47.980 I mean, no, no, no.

00:46:48.800 That's what I'm saying.

00:46:49.360 Look, it's, I'm saying start small, right?

00:46:52.580 I didn't have an apartment.

00:46:53.660 I didn't have rent.

00:46:54.160 When I, when I traveled to New York city, I wasn't, I didn't have an apartment.

00:46:57.060 Right.

00:46:57.380 So it was 20 bucks for me to go, but I didn't.

00:46:59.200 I mean, that is it furthering your argument to these people?

00:47:02.180 Because it's not that much of a sacrifice to go out and just do this thing.

00:47:05.340 Well, my point, my point was, I have not attached to myself to a hipster neighborhood

00:47:11.100 apartment that costs me money.

00:47:13.220 I would absolutely forego living in Williamsburg.

00:47:16.980 If it meant I could fly myself to Spain instead.

00:47:19.860 So these people actually have the $2,000 per month that could fund a lot of journalism.

00:47:26.620 But what you said is very deep.

00:47:28.620 They, they reach out to you.

00:47:29.620 I want to, they do this to me all the time.

00:47:30.640 I want it.

00:47:31.160 I want to work for you.

00:47:31.920 I get thousands of resumes every, but like when I'm, when push comes to actual shove,

00:47:36.840 like I want to do what you do.

00:47:38.000 I know you guys know what I'm talking about.

00:47:39.080 When push comes, you say, okay, take out your phone, point it at that thing over there.

00:47:44.120 It's like, so it's almost like, it's almost like you're their therapist.

00:47:48.120 I got it.

00:47:48.440 I figured it out.

00:47:49.180 I know how to solve this problem.

00:47:50.660 When someone applies for a job, you know, send you a resume, you respond with like,

00:47:55.460 are you, are you willing to do what it takes to become a real journalist and face down

00:47:59.500 those risks and say, yes, you get a bunch of your buddies.

00:48:02.180 To dress up in like SWAT gear and FBI, a fake, you know, Fed gear or whatever.

00:48:07.120 Yeah.

00:48:07.260 And then you put them in the room with the light hanging low so they can only see the

00:48:11.700 lower torso and you interrogate them and see if they crack.

00:48:13.840 You kidnap them first.

00:48:14.180 I'm kidding, by the way.

00:48:15.020 You get a van that says free puppies on the side of it.

00:48:18.540 This is, when you do hostile environment training, I actually did this and it was like the most

00:48:22.540 fun ever.

00:48:23.480 Yeah.

00:48:23.720 Dude, if you, if you like playing video games, you will love doing hostile environment

00:48:27.540 training for kidnappings and, and, and, and, and torture and interrogation.

00:48:30.840 I remember my first day in college in journalism one-on-one and I remember going there screaming

00:48:36.980 at my family being like, this is a scam.

00:48:38.900 This is not going to be worth anything.

00:48:40.080 I don't want to be here.

00:48:40.900 Why am I working and going?

00:48:42.460 This doesn't make any sense.

00:48:43.860 I'm there and I'm sitting down at orientation and they're explaining what's going to be

00:48:47.700 happening.

00:48:48.560 And they're like, okay, so, you know, you're going to be here and then you're going to

00:48:52.500 learn the AP style guide.

00:48:54.180 And we're going to learn how to do, you know, effective journalism.

00:48:56.680 We're going to learn how to talk about climate change and all these social justice warrior

00:49:00.580 issues.

00:49:01.040 And I'm like, we're going to, we're going to talk about these causes and we're going to

00:49:03.660 be a vessel for that.

00:49:04.700 I'm like, okay, when can we actually do journalism?

00:49:07.180 When, when can we go out there?

00:49:08.320 It's like, no, no, no, we don't do that here.

00:49:09.680 I'm like, what do you mean you don't do that here?

00:49:11.060 So I'm like, this doesn't make any sense at all.

00:49:12.880 And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:49:14.040 You wait here.

00:49:14.500 I'm like, when will I be able to actually go out there and do some actual real journalism in the

00:49:20.320 streets?

00:49:20.700 When can I talk to the politicians?

00:49:22.320 When can I ask them questions?

00:49:23.400 They're like, oh, at the end of this whole entire course at, at four years in three and

00:49:30.220 a half years after doing this at the last semester, you will be given a press pass.

00:49:36.000 Then that press pass will allow you to have access to some people.

00:49:39.500 I'm like, this is bull crap.

00:49:40.780 We should be doing this automatically.

00:49:42.380 So I snuck in to the last class that, that, that last semester class, I got myself a press

00:49:48.400 credential, even though I was not registered for that particular class, because in the beginning

00:49:52.080 of, of class schedules, they always have a mix up.

00:49:54.480 I got that press credential.

00:49:55.560 I hit the streets.

00:49:56.360 I went after the mayor, confronted him about the not alone first responders.

00:50:00.340 Uh, the mayor contacted the college and then got me in trouble.

00:50:02.980 They're like, who the hell is this kid under your press credential?

00:50:05.020 The answer to your question is when do we get to go out and do this was whenever you

00:50:08.540 feel like it.

00:50:09.000 Exactly.

00:50:09.400 Okay.

00:50:09.540 But this is a really important point because when I was starting undercover journalism,

00:50:12.980 I had to take someone by the hand and go in there with them.

00:50:15.740 That's the only way that I could cross that divide.

00:50:18.840 And when you do that, when you, when you go into the field of action, you know, action,

00:50:23.200 action is, is, is a different thing than, you know, than conscience.

00:50:27.360 And I would have to go in there, hold them by the hand and bring them with me and do it.

00:50:32.900 The only way that I know how to lead is by, is by example, which is a good thing and a

00:50:36.540 bad thing.

00:50:36.880 Sometimes I hope I would try to, but I can't, I could never, I could never teach courage.

00:50:42.380 I could never, I have, you have to lead it.

00:50:44.840 You have to lead.

00:50:45.380 So, so where does that lead us today?

00:50:47.660 Because obviously James O'Keefe can't go into every single institution with a hidden

00:50:51.100 camera.

00:50:51.840 You have to create a community of people who are leaning on each other.

00:50:56.540 You know, I was talking to a, a medal of honor recipient over the summer and, and he,

00:51:02.400 and he, and he, and he gave me advice and he said, you have to find a way to spread the

00:51:08.860 load over, over other people.

00:51:12.320 And, and, and, and he gave this talk and he was talking about being a prisoner of war

00:51:16.060 and everyone's being tortured.

00:51:17.200 And eventually when you're tortured, you would, you, you confess because that's just

00:51:20.720 what human beings do when you're, when you're, when you're tortured like you are.

00:51:24.360 And he said the guilt and the shame that they felt going back to the, to the jail cell after

00:51:29.580 having confessed.

00:51:30.720 And he said, the only thing that kept us alive was we had each other.

00:51:35.260 And I think citizen journalists have to have a community of like-minded people who are

00:51:40.440 also courageous.

00:51:42.040 And Tim, you know, why, why waste your time with these people who reach out to you?

00:51:46.120 I want to do what you do.

00:51:47.220 Okay.

00:51:47.540 Prove it.

00:51:48.480 Right.

00:51:48.760 So when people, when I see a thousand resumes, I want to see what, what great thing did you

00:51:54.120 do and build?

00:51:55.460 Go out and do it.

00:51:56.900 Nothing's stopping you from doing this, but you do need the tools and you do need the

00:52:00.080 knowledge, but you have to find people who are willing to take the action.

00:52:04.260 And there's enough of them in this country.

00:52:06.400 There might be millions of people who want to, want to complain, but there's, there's

00:52:09.640 people who are wanting to do it.

00:52:10.700 I was in Virginia, uh, living with my brother.

00:52:14.000 We, we saw news about Occupy Wall Street.

00:52:16.880 I bought a one-way bus ticket.

00:52:19.180 And the reason I bought it one way was because I was like originally playing on, planning on

00:52:22.800 buying a round trip week long ticket, go there for a week, 40 bucks.

00:52:26.520 And then I said, I'll probably want to leave sooner than that.

00:52:29.660 I get some protest or whatever.

00:52:30.880 I'll go there for a day.

00:52:31.540 Where am I going to sleep?

00:52:32.160 I don't even know.

00:52:32.600 I traveled with just a backpack with my savings in the, in, you know, safely in an envelope

00:52:37.680 at the bottom of my backpack.

00:52:38.760 I could have lost it.

00:52:39.560 My computer went there and that's it.

00:52:42.820 No plan stood.

00:52:43.840 I remember the first day I was there was like a Thursday or something.

00:52:45.880 I can't remember when it was, maybe it was a Wednesday.

00:52:47.160 It was raining and I'm standing under a tarp with like seven people.

00:52:49.840 And I was like, this was stupid.

00:52:51.100 There's nothing going on.

00:52:52.460 And then they said, trust me, just wait till the weekend.

00:52:54.180 It'll get crazy.

00:52:54.680 I slept outside for several days.

00:52:57.080 There are people who are absolutely unwilling to sleep outside, unwilling to take the risk.

00:53:01.800 There are people who would say, oh, I'd go and do it, but where am I sleeping?

00:53:04.320 And I was like, well, me, I slept on the ground.

00:53:06.180 I, I, I squeezed, I, I, I turned my backpack around, put my arms over it and slept.

00:53:10.380 What do you think it is about you that did that?

00:53:12.680 Cause I, I, I'm, I want to understand versus other fun.

00:53:16.340 Okay.

00:53:16.580 It was fun.

00:53:17.140 I know.

00:53:17.460 I mean, this is the crazy thing to me.

00:53:19.320 We, we grow up hearing these stories.

00:53:21.680 Uh, like look at Lord of the Rings, you know, a bunch of little farmer halflings who are

00:53:26.860 not fighters and all they want to do is eat food and smoke pipes.

00:53:29.540 And they're like, I guess I'm going to travel halfway around the world to the most dangerous

00:53:33.180 place on the planet.

00:53:34.020 And these are the stories I grew up on.

00:53:35.560 And I'm like, the closest I can get to that is like hopping on a bus with air conditioning

00:53:40.860 to the biggest city in the country and then hang out in a park surrounded by luxury.

00:53:46.820 And I'm like, the closest thing I think I can get to an adventure is just like, I'll

00:53:50.040 sleep outside a little bit, I guess.

00:53:51.520 And what made you that?

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00:54:49.260 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:54:55.200 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

00:54:59.780 our clients that we really care about you.

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00:55:07.740 Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

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00:55:15.260 Did I mention that we care?

00:55:19.680 That way.

00:55:20.980 Because that's unusual.

00:55:22.140 Probably movies, I guess.

00:55:23.280 I don't know.

00:55:23.720 Movies.

00:55:24.200 Video games, movies, superhero stories.

00:55:26.100 But you did it to tell stories.

00:55:26.940 You did it to tell stories like journalistic stories or you did it because it was a fun

00:55:31.440 exercise of expression?

00:55:33.860 I want to go on adventures.

00:55:34.800 Adventures.

00:55:35.160 And that was like 10 years or maybe eight or so years of that.

00:55:41.620 And that got to the point where you can't do it anymore for a variety of reasons, especially

00:55:45.120 if you get too many followers.

00:55:46.400 And then instead of going on adventures, I'm just being harassed all the time.

00:55:49.480 And so then it turns into something more like this.

00:55:51.980 But for me, I've been to 30 some odd countries covering a bunch of different news stories,

00:55:56.600 speaking at conferences.

00:55:57.700 And it's because I wanted to go on those adventures and experience and see things and understand

00:56:02.960 them.

00:56:03.220 And one of the biggest components, especially, is the media is always lying.

00:56:07.700 We've been told the media lies to us all the time.

00:56:10.020 And so when these things are happening, I just wanted to see it happen.

00:56:12.720 You know, what happened was there was a video that went viral of the police dragging one

00:56:17.360 of the occupiers out of the park, leaving him bleeding on his hands or whatever.

00:56:21.300 And then everyone's talking.

00:56:22.500 Zuccotti Park.

00:56:23.120 Zuccotti.

00:56:23.660 And then I was like, man, I want to see.

00:56:25.440 I want to go there.

00:56:26.560 I don't want to.

00:56:27.100 It was his head, though.

00:56:28.780 He was bleeding from his head.

00:56:29.580 From his head.

00:56:30.080 I'm like, I don't want to watch a video about it.

00:56:32.520 But it's 20 bucks and I can actually go there.

00:56:35.200 So you're sitting there and you're wherever you were and thinking, I'm just going to go

00:56:38.100 there.

00:56:38.140 Newport News.

00:56:38.960 Newport News.

00:56:39.640 Virginia.

00:56:40.160 Yeah.

00:56:40.680 Yeah.

00:56:40.880 That's a really interesting point.

00:56:42.420 Being a public figure like you are, it gets to a point in space and time where initially

00:56:47.600 not really people knew who I was or maybe who you were.

00:56:50.460 But then when you become a public figure, it's almost like they want to be around you to

00:56:54.900 suck the energy.

00:56:56.820 Yes.

00:56:57.120 Yeah.

00:56:57.280 I was just saying.

00:56:58.320 Not because they want to support your adventurous mission or artistic whatever.

00:57:02.980 It's because you are famous.

00:57:06.080 But you know what I do love, too, is seeing the disappointment in the people who never had

00:57:10.320 it in the first place.

00:57:11.420 And it's not so much that I'm gloating from their pain or whatever.

00:57:13.700 But when I've met people who are like, I want to do what you do.

00:57:16.440 And then I'd say something like, come, come hang out and we'll show you what we do.

00:57:21.260 And then the immediate response is like, I don't want to do this.

00:57:24.280 Yeah.

00:57:24.460 That happens to me all the time.

00:57:25.280 We were, we were talking with, we were, this is really funny.

00:57:28.420 We were trying, we were setting up an interview with Andrew Tate last year before the arrest

00:57:32.340 and all this stuff went down.

00:57:33.560 And we were like, we'd love to like talk to you obviously about what you're working

00:57:37.500 on now.

00:57:37.900 And, and he was like, bro, I'm just sitting here on the laptop all day.

00:57:41.280 It's boring.

00:57:41.780 And we were like, I think people need to see that because the assumption is when you see

00:57:46.440 the highlight reel of some famous or successful person and you know, people see the, I'll

00:57:53.060 give you an example to this, this event we're doing today, later today in Miami, most people

00:57:57.460 just think we called the venue and say, Hey, do you have a availability for this date?

00:58:01.260 Great.

00:58:01.440 We'll be there.

00:58:01.960 It took a, it took almost a year to organize this event.

00:58:05.040 It costed like a hundred, a hundred grand plus, probably more than that, substantially more

00:58:08.720 than that actually.

00:58:09.700 And, uh, organizing has been one of the most stressful things imaginable for one day in

00:58:15.660 one theater.

00:58:16.540 Yep.

00:58:17.000 It is.

00:58:17.800 And I'm like, anybody who's, who watches this show and they're like, I wish I was there

00:58:22.360 as I was doing it.

00:58:22.880 And it's like, man, no, you don't.

00:58:24.760 Because, uh, when I, when I worked at Vice, I remember, uh, I went out to get drinks with

00:58:29.320 Shane Smith, the CEO, and we were talking about like, you know, what, what the company

00:58:33.520 was doing, what I was working on.

00:58:34.620 And I was like, look, I want your job.

00:58:36.340 And he's like, no, you don't.

00:58:37.780 My job sucks.

00:58:38.820 And I was like, no, I do want your job.

00:58:40.260 And I was like, but I, I understand what you're saying.

00:58:42.360 Cause I've, I've, I've managed teams before, but his attitude, I totally get when you're

00:58:47.240 talking to 99% of the people who say they want to do what you do.

00:58:50.480 No, they don't.

00:58:51.260 They want to sit in a comfy chair with the, with the game on and their buddies who are

00:58:55.040 looking at them like they're a hero.

00:58:56.500 Well, they want the spoils of it, but not the responsibility.

00:58:58.540 They want the authority without the responsibility.

00:59:01.180 They, they, they want to feel respected and accepted and they want to not have to worry

00:59:05.100 about money or resources, but that's impossible.

00:59:07.840 Real quick, real quick, there will never come a time in your life where you're no longer

00:59:12.040 worried about the money.

00:59:13.700 A CEO who's worth millions of dollars, maybe you retire.

00:59:16.680 Yeah.

00:59:16.880 When you're retired, now you're worried about the market.

00:59:18.360 You're worried about your market, your retirement accounts and whether you're budgeting appropriately.

00:59:22.420 If you're, if you're a billionaire, even you've got to worry about the SEC auditing

00:59:26.060 or, you know, investigating you.

00:59:27.780 And for somebody who is wealthy, maybe you inherit money.

00:59:31.700 Okay.

00:59:31.960 Well, what are you going to do to sustain this?

00:59:33.580 Somebody who runs a company to say, you're so lucky you're rich.

00:59:35.780 And it's just like definitely living better.

00:59:38.020 I'm not saying that's not true, but now you're worried about all of your employees, how they're

00:59:41.680 getting paid, whether the new taxes, new regulations, new laws.

00:59:44.780 In fact, that, that's saying that old song, more money, more problems.

00:59:48.620 I'm younger and I'm wondering like, how does that make sense?

00:59:51.180 And I'm like, it definitely is true.

00:59:53.480 Well, for the people who kind of feed off of your energy, there, there's a lot of things

00:59:58.600 that we could talk about there, especially when it comes to the spiritual aspects.

01:00:01.620 But I think predominantly a lot of those individuals are adverse to discomfort when I kind of seek

01:00:07.480 it.

01:00:07.900 I like discomfort.

01:00:08.820 I like challenges.

01:00:09.680 I like growth.

01:00:10.500 I like being able to go out there and say, hey, this is going to be very difficult.

01:00:14.980 I've, I've essentially picked the largest, most difficult task to ever try to achieve.

01:00:20.160 And that is try trying to expose the satanic demons in our society and the evildoers in

01:00:27.520 our population that have hijacked our government.

01:00:31.100 So, so when you look at everyone who is where they are, it's not, and a lot of people think

01:00:37.440 they just got there.

01:00:38.580 It was very easy.

01:00:39.440 It was very quick.

01:00:40.100 It was very simple.

01:00:40.760 It is not.

01:00:41.480 There's a lot of pain.

01:00:42.940 There's a lot of suffering.

01:00:43.760 There's a lot of sacrifice.

01:00:44.540 There's a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.

01:00:46.240 I've been in jail many times.

01:00:47.660 I know you've been in jail many times.

01:00:48.980 But it's, it's, it's not fun, but the people who are there are usually there for a reason.

01:00:54.200 And, and, you know, I'm sure you've gotten this before the, and I'm not, I probably shouldn't

01:00:57.560 say this, but the, can I get a picture that, can I get a picture?

01:01:01.120 And I was talking to someone, I'm not going to name him, but you know who he is.

01:01:04.660 Very, very big name.

01:01:05.880 I said, how do you do it?

01:01:07.540 How do you stand there?

01:01:08.740 You know, cause I shake every hand and take every picture and then they'll go home.

01:01:11.680 You look exhausted.

01:01:12.980 People, well, why I look exhausted is because this is not what motivates me.

01:01:16.460 And I know, you know, fans are watching, oh, James hates pictures.

01:01:19.800 It's like, no, I don't, I don't, I, I enjoy that you guys are following me and I enjoy

01:01:23.880 that you read, read our work, but it's not why I started this.

01:01:28.320 And, and, and people, most people, when you get to a certain point, they just want, it's

01:01:34.100 almost like Dan Ellsberg was the former librarian of Congress and he wrote a book called The Image.

01:01:38.960 And I said, a hero is a big man, a big man, a celebrity is a big name.

01:01:45.700 And sometimes the two overlap, but, but it gets to the point where our people, they're,

01:01:52.040 they want a picture with you.

01:01:53.460 They want to, and I know that you've experienced this.

01:01:55.600 Of course.

01:01:55.940 And after a while, it's like, I don't even want to, I don't even want to go outside.

01:01:58.880 I think there was a documentary about Michael Jordan.

01:02:01.180 Same thing.

01:02:01.920 He had to stay in his hotel room.

01:02:03.060 And, and, and, and you want to avoid though, you want to find a way to energize yourself.

01:02:09.300 So this is a really important point.

01:02:11.260 This is the energy suck is that, and that's why we'll eventually get back to the citizen

01:02:15.760 journalism thing where, where people are, have skin in the game because the people that

01:02:19.700 just want to talk to you because they feel bad, they can't do what you do.

01:02:23.820 You have limited time.

01:02:25.440 I have limited time.

01:02:26.580 We have to spend our energy and our time wisely to empower the people who do want to do it.

01:02:30.420 How do you feel?

01:02:31.900 There's two things.

01:02:32.680 Two things to, to address there.

01:02:33.520 The first is, I'll give you an anecdote.

01:02:35.060 I was, I was in Brazil during these big protests and there's a comedian down there named Jafinha

01:02:40.020 Bastos.

01:02:40.500 He's a, he's a great dude, but he is ridiculously famous.

01:02:43.400 He's like Brazilian Joe Rogan.

01:02:44.980 And we were trying to walk around and like watch what was going on at the protests.

01:02:49.280 Dude couldn't walk five feet without 20 people surrounding him the whole time.

01:02:53.680 So he, he, he looks at one guy who's wearing a Guy Fawkes mask and he goes, my friend, can

01:02:57.340 I have your mask?

01:02:57.840 And he's like, yeah.

01:02:58.260 And he puts it on and it's like, I have to go.

01:03:00.060 And he's just walking.

01:03:00.820 It helped a little bit.

01:03:01.720 But that kind of fame and attention, I can understand what you're saying.

01:03:06.380 Now for me, that doesn't happen to me when I go outside.

01:03:09.560 You know, I don't have everyone running up to me and screaming.

01:03:11.380 But, you know, for like the event, like today, I do, someone comes up to me and says, can I get a picture?

01:03:16.720 Absolutely.

01:03:17.180 Of course.

01:03:18.340 For one reason, I'm hoping that what it is I represent will, and we will create a memory, a moment, a pin in the timeline of this person that instills these values with them forever.

01:03:31.260 And so I want to make sure that every interaction I have with someone, a handshake, a smile, thank you so much for supporting me.

01:03:38.100 I really do appreciate it.

01:03:38.940 I want them to have the most positive feeling and associate the work we do with goodness, and I want them never to forget.

01:03:45.180 Yeah.

01:03:45.480 That's a very good point.

01:03:46.700 That's a very good point.

01:03:47.320 But with all the energy vampires out there, I wanted to ask you guys, how do you fill your energy from the void?

01:03:54.600 Coffee.

01:03:54.960 Lots and lots of psychoactive statements.

01:03:57.380 How much coffee do you drink?

01:03:58.640 How much coffee do you drink?

01:03:59.200 I just have a glass a day.

01:04:00.160 A glass a day.

01:04:00.660 I have a coffee for breakfast.

01:04:01.680 That's it.

01:04:02.580 Energizing things are a great question.

01:04:06.500 And I know what you mean, Tim.

01:04:07.660 It's like if you don't take – there was like nine years ago someone said, can I get a picture?

01:04:10.800 I'm like, no.

01:04:12.300 And then for the rest of their life, they're going to think that I'm a dick because the only thing they're going to remember is that 10-second interaction.

01:04:19.000 But to be honest, to be truly authentic, because I think one of the reasons people support me and have donated is because they do think I'm a sincere person.

01:04:28.500 So in many regards, smiling for the camera, isn't it contrary to sincerity?

01:04:33.720 Just a little bit.

01:04:34.800 Smile.

01:04:35.720 Like sometimes you don't want to smile.

01:04:38.080 Sometimes you're thinking about something else.

01:04:40.700 And you're busy.

01:04:42.880 So you have to find something enjoyable.

01:04:46.000 This guy told me, and you know his name, big – he's very famous.

01:04:50.260 And he said – and he's very successful.

01:04:52.560 And he's very talented.

01:04:53.540 And he said, you have to find something enjoyable about the interaction.

01:04:57.320 So it's even if asking where you're from and you have to find – but it is an energy suck.

01:05:01.920 It is an energy suck because of this.

01:05:03.800 Because it's an exchange of something and they're getting it and they're taking something from you.

01:05:08.840 I want your picture.

01:05:09.920 I want your attention.

01:05:11.140 I want you to care about me and my problems.

01:05:12.980 So what gives me energy, what boosts me up is empowering people to go do the action.

01:05:21.100 It's finding a Tim Pool out there and saying, hey, why don't you get on that bus and go to that protest.

01:05:25.120 It's when people are contributing.

01:05:27.260 That's what gives me energy, which is to find the people who are willing.

01:05:33.560 That's what wakes me up in the morning.

01:05:34.840 There are more followers than there are leaders.

01:05:36.800 And in today's society, it is typically the desire to be the leader.

01:05:43.360 You imagine this great battlefield and nobody imagines themselves as just a frontline soldier that no one remembers the name of.

01:05:50.520 They remember the great general on the horse.

01:05:52.300 And because of these stories, I think it creates this negative view of someone who is a follower.

01:05:56.800 A follower is seen as negative.

01:05:58.020 And I think that's wrong.

01:05:58.760 I was talking to Meet Kevin, and I mentioned, you know, why do we love dogs so much?

01:06:05.620 Why do so many people get pissed off in a movie when a dog gets hurt?

01:06:07.820 Because dogs are loyal to you.

01:06:09.640 Why do we love the story of Hachiko the dog, the dog who waited for 10 years for his owner who died at the train station?

01:06:14.860 Because of loyalty.

01:06:16.460 And so what I say is some people are leaders, and that means all the arrows are flying towards them.

01:06:20.240 But I actually think there is no difference in terms of status in being a follower of the leader, someone who is willing to stand on the front line staring down the barrel of warfare because they trust you, they believe in you, and they know that your vision will make everything better.

01:06:36.760 That's a very good point.

01:06:37.720 I mean, my vision is slightly different, and then I want to create lots of little leaders, but your point is well taken, too.

01:06:43.220 But they are, though.

01:06:43.760 They are little leaders, right?

01:06:44.820 My view is this.

01:06:46.140 If there is a great general, a Washington, or, you know, whether you think he was great or not, and he's leading the American Revolution, there are men who knew I am going to stand in front of him and you because he is going to save this country, bring about this new nation, and I will be his divine instrument in stopping you.

01:07:04.080 And that means these people standing on the front line, it's really crazy when you think about it.

01:07:08.920 There's a phrase for it someone just told me after I was forlorn hope or something, where you are a front line soldier staring down the enemy, and you know you have a 95% chance of dying.

01:07:18.720 Yeah, that's where we are.

01:07:19.360 I don't understand why we as a society don't say, like, that is the ultimate sacrifice and the hero.

01:07:26.040 In these old wars, you know, my favorite movie, The Patriot, when Cornwallis is like, oh, killing officers.

01:07:32.520 Could you imagine the chaos?

01:07:33.520 Yeah, the officers need to be protected and saved, and it's the men who must die for us.

01:07:37.380 No, I think it's the men who are dying for you, but they're not dying so that you can be safe and protected and live your uppity, luxury life.

01:07:45.340 It's because they believe in you to carry on the mission, and you are essentially the light source.

01:07:50.260 That's a feedback I got from some of the customers for the O'Keefe Academy Masterclass, because I called a lot of them last week, and they said to me, they said,

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01:08:55.980 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

01:09:00.400 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

01:09:07.580 We care about you.

01:09:09.700 Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

01:09:12.680 It's weird.

01:09:13.580 I don't remember saying that part.

01:09:15.800 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care.

01:09:21.520 Did I mention that we care?

01:09:25.840 You have a gun pointed at your head, James, and I admire that.

01:09:29.820 And I want to help you because I can't do that.

01:09:33.900 I can do something.

01:09:35.540 So there's an element of that where the leader is taking the arrows.

01:09:41.180 I am Spartacus.

01:09:42.220 And I also think you're right.

01:09:43.500 Like 95%, that seems to me about accurate.

01:09:46.400 But it's not necessarily a bad thing.

01:09:49.480 There's great – life is about more than – you have to pursue truth.

01:09:57.440 You have to do the right thing no matter what.

01:09:59.600 You have to.

01:10:00.400 Well, as you were saying earlier, the tribe and the community does matter.

01:10:04.720 And to be a little bit more nuanced about the individuals who are taking your photo, there's some people you meet that are absolute energy sucks.

01:10:12.740 That you're there.

01:10:13.620 That you just feel kind of depressed.

01:10:15.140 That you kind of just feel it in your gut.

01:10:16.680 Like, holy cow, this does not feel good.

01:10:19.020 Why aren't you smiling?

01:10:20.140 Why aren't you smiling?

01:10:21.060 And you feel drained from it.

01:10:21.820 But there's also some individuals that come up that are filled with life, that you can see into their eyes.

01:10:26.720 They're very happy.

01:10:27.220 That's true.

01:10:27.780 They're very energetic.

01:10:28.780 And they actually do uplift you.

01:10:30.580 So I think with any kind of human being, it also represents the residency and the energy that they have within them.

01:10:36.180 And sometimes, you know, when I take a photo, I feel great.

01:10:39.080 I feel really happy.

01:10:39.800 I feel really excited.

01:10:40.600 I'm so happy I met these individuals and these people.

01:10:42.700 And I'm able to learn from them and share with them.

01:10:44.780 And this is why I do a lot of meetups.

01:10:46.600 I'm doing one this Sunday to meet up with a lot of the people who are members of LukeUnfiltered.com because I want to see them.

01:10:54.860 I want to meet them.

01:10:55.560 And all those interactions always keep me uplifted and full of energy.

01:10:59.700 Sometimes when I do meet other people at conferences, holy cow, I just feel so depressed after taking so many photos.

01:11:06.560 I just feel so down.

01:11:08.060 And I'm just like, what just happened here?

01:11:10.180 At the conference, what do you find the ratios?

01:11:11.940 Is it 1 to 10?

01:11:13.220 Because I know exactly what you mean.

01:11:14.180 It also depends on the person because one person could have really intense negative energy and it just gets sucked into it.

01:11:20.580 Like, I want to be as far as the way as I can.

01:11:22.800 Exactly what you're talking about.

01:11:23.140 And I can't explain it because there's no physical characteristics that could pretty much describe this.

01:11:28.480 It's just an energy that one particular person has that is just bad.

01:11:32.960 I feel this when I do a lot of my confrontations.

01:11:35.780 You feel the energy around different kind of individuals and people.

01:11:39.220 Henry Kissinger, bad, bad, bad energy.

01:11:42.720 Evil auras, man.

01:11:43.480 Lord Jacob Rothschild, bad energy.

01:11:46.420 Rockefeller, bad energy.

01:11:48.360 And you just kind of feel like, you feel...

01:11:50.400 Andrew Breitbart used to call it, when I first met him, he called it psychic vampires is what he said when he said events and people.

01:11:58.020 Yes.

01:11:58.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:59.140 No, no.

01:11:59.600 But I know exactly what you mean.

01:12:00.580 Like, I was in Iowa.

01:12:01.600 I had never really been to Iowa.

01:12:03.260 And I spoke there and all the people came up to me.

01:12:05.860 We had such pure, kind eyes.

01:12:09.560 Exactly.

01:12:10.020 And it was like uplifting.

01:12:11.800 Every little interaction was so uplifting because they were talking to you about some deep, even in the 15 seconds.

01:12:17.960 Exactly.

01:12:18.600 15 seconds.

01:12:19.260 It was actually quite uplifted and quite touching.

01:12:22.920 I'm in some, I mean, a remote Iowa place.

01:12:27.480 But if you're at a conference in D.C. or something, it's a different level.

01:12:32.560 Yes.

01:12:33.480 Yes.

01:12:34.560 Yeah, it really does depend where you are, too.

01:12:36.640 I recommend everybody watch the movie The Patriot, starring Mel Gibson.

01:12:40.280 It's like the best movie ever.

01:12:41.960 In terms, I mean, there's a bunch of different reasons why you might think a movie is good.

01:12:47.680 But it's a story about, it's the American Revolution.

01:12:51.040 A guy doesn't want to go to war.

01:12:52.460 He doesn't want to fight.

01:12:53.320 He refuses.

01:12:54.300 And then the British come and kill his kid.

01:12:56.280 And now he wants retribution.

01:12:57.920 He wants revenge.

01:12:59.140 And I think there's so many lessons.

01:13:02.040 And there's, maybe not lessons is the right word, but it's a great story that inspires in a lot of ways.

01:13:06.640 And I think it gets a message across.

01:13:08.380 Plus, if you sit back and wait and ignore the fighting, the fighting comes to you, whether you want it to or not.

01:13:13.540 And it's your children who will pay the ultimate price.

01:13:15.860 And he ends up, I think, losing a couple of his kids throughout the movie.

01:13:19.200 But in the end, he's like this great soldier who's well-known for his leadership.

01:13:26.980 But he doesn't want to fight anymore.

01:13:28.620 In the end, he grabs the American flag and runs back towards the field to rally everyone to keep pushing.

01:13:33.620 After that's said to him?

01:13:35.180 So, like, in the beginning, he's like, I will not go to war.

01:13:38.660 We do not want war.

01:13:39.440 Trust me.

01:13:39.900 It is not.

01:13:40.600 These wars will not be fought on a far-off battlefield.

01:13:43.260 They'll be fought in front of your homes, in front of your children.

01:13:45.700 And so he refuses to vote in favor of this fight.

01:13:49.000 And then ultimately, the war comes to him.

01:13:51.100 The war comes to him.

01:13:51.720 His son refuses to back down.

01:13:53.500 And then, you know, one of his kids is killed.

01:13:55.140 Let's make this a little less abstract.

01:13:56.220 I think that's most – I think more people, Tim, in my experience, they feel a kind of guilt that they won't do it or can't do it or for whatever reason.

01:14:05.800 But most people actually, I think, watching this right now realize that they should do it even though they have kids.

01:14:12.040 And actually, it's because of the kids with the school board stuff I've done.

01:14:15.740 I mean, more mothers have asked for cameras than anybody.

01:14:18.640 It's a motivating thing.

01:14:19.980 And I think it's going to require a sacrifice.

01:14:24.460 We are – was it 95%?

01:14:26.420 Do you think that's true for present day if you're a leader and you get shot down?

01:14:30.120 It's about 95% was for Washington, right?

01:14:33.040 95% –

01:14:33.840 For George Washington getting shot down and the head of the – knowing that you're going into battle and you're going to get shot down, knowing that with certainty.

01:14:42.200 I mean, you know, the people who stood in front of him, we have this mentality of George Washington is the great name we will remember.

01:14:49.980 And I'd like to know the name of every single member of the Continental Army who stood in front of George Washington and said, if you want him, you got to go through me first.

01:14:58.240 Because they're – you know, again, we celebrate the leaders in these great names without realizing that tens of thousands of men provided that – used their bodies as shields and were the instruments of liberty for Washington.

01:15:12.320 I don't like the idea that it's like, don't be a follower.

01:15:15.200 You know, we want to be – no, no, no, no.

01:15:16.520 Being a follower isn't a bad thing.

01:15:17.620 And following bad people for bad reasons is a bad thing.

01:15:20.220 But my view on this is kind of like there are a lot of people who say I can't do it.

01:15:24.720 I don't fault them for not being able to do it.

01:15:26.800 And I say this all the time.

01:15:27.420 Look, if you're a tradesman, if you're a teacher, if you're a nurse, your job is to instruct the future generation, to build the infrastructure that makes this possible.

01:15:36.780 I don't want you to leave that job where you're doing something important for the world because you have to go to D.C. and be a politician.

01:15:43.780 Some people can.

01:15:44.580 They can assume that role.

01:15:45.680 The other thing you can do is contribute your time, energy, or resources in any way possible.

01:15:50.020 Sometimes that means you donate some goods.

01:15:51.880 Sometimes that means you speak up at work.

01:15:53.800 Or it just means maybe the best you can do is $10 to fund an organization, to make contributions in any way possible, and encourage others to contribute.

01:16:02.660 As a person who speaks up, you're actively in the fray.

01:16:05.600 You could lose your job.

01:16:06.600 I got all that stuff.

01:16:07.860 But speaking up is powerful, incredibly powerful.

01:16:10.160 It shifts the cultural narrative.

01:16:11.760 If everybody spoke up, the cultural would be over.

01:16:14.320 Seriously.

01:16:15.060 But for too long, too many people said, I'm not going to put risk on myself.

01:16:19.360 Now, I take issue with that.

01:16:21.620 That is not being a follower.

01:16:23.660 That's being—that's something else, right?

01:16:27.380 A follower is not a bad thing.

01:16:28.680 A follower who says, hey, look, I watch Tucker Carlson Crowder.

01:16:31.440 I watch Viva.

01:16:32.260 I listen to James O'Keefe.

01:16:33.680 And I support financially.

01:16:35.300 I support with words.

01:16:36.460 I will speak up about what they do.

01:16:38.060 That's being a follower.

01:16:38.960 That's not a bad thing.

01:16:39.740 That's a good thing.

01:16:40.820 But then there are people who are like—I don't know what you'd call it.

01:16:44.020 They're neither.

01:16:44.620 They hide.

01:16:45.620 And they say, I hope that whatever happens here, this fighting is resolved and no one

01:16:50.240 comes and bothers me about it.

01:16:52.080 But that means that, you know, you doing nothing will allow evil to triumph.

01:16:57.480 That's right.

01:16:58.220 But they're out there.

01:16:59.560 They're out there.

01:17:00.280 They may not be in the millions.

01:17:01.540 They may be in the thousands or tens of thousands.

01:17:04.040 But they're out there.

01:17:05.580 And I love the example of going doing it.

01:17:09.700 I think, Luke, that's the thing.

01:17:11.820 I think the course work that O'Keefe Media Group is—you have to go out in the field

01:17:17.600 and do an exercise.

01:17:18.460 So when we do undercover work, that's where you really—the rubber meets the road.

01:17:23.340 Go out into a restaurant and talk to someone and record it.

01:17:27.060 And we call it pulling the trigger exercises, metaphorically speaking.

01:17:30.160 You have to ask the uncomfortable questions.

01:17:32.940 It's very difficult.

01:17:34.380 Sometimes it's so difficult, your heart's beating 180 beats per minute.

01:17:38.300 I'm used to that feeling.

01:17:38.900 I mean, you know, and in the beginning—and by the way, my adrenal glands are done.

01:17:42.080 Feels good.

01:17:42.380 I don't even—I'm—my adrenal is like—I'm the calmest when I'm ambushing people at this

01:17:47.900 point in time.

01:17:48.540 But in the beginning, it was—it was—it was rough.

01:17:51.560 It's nerve-wracking.

01:17:52.340 You have to force yourself.

01:17:53.560 It's almost like you have to will yourself to cross the Rubicon to go do this thing.

01:17:58.860 I was in college confronting professors, and I said, I'm not meant to do this.

01:18:03.620 That's what I said.

01:18:04.560 It's uncomfortable.

01:18:05.820 It's so—it means beyond uncomfortable.

01:18:07.740 There are psychic barriers.

01:18:10.160 And, you know, call it psychic, call it whatever you want.

01:18:12.380 An example being—I love the conspiracy theories about Luke, that he must be a fed because there's

01:18:19.340 no way a person could get access to these events and to these people.

01:18:22.420 And the reality is, you go to an event, and there's like a security guard standing at

01:18:27.440 the door, and there's, you know, the big corporate, you know, the CEO or whatever who's

01:18:31.580 got a big story and, you know, some malfeasance, and you want to get that question, but the

01:18:35.480 psychic barrier is the rules say I'm not allowed to walk past this security guard.

01:18:39.600 And we were talking about this the other day about, like, what would you do or say when

01:18:43.680 you are entering an area that you believe you shouldn't be?

01:18:46.300 I'm like, first of all, there's no such thing as a place you shouldn't be.

01:18:49.260 I mean, certainly there are, right?

01:18:50.680 If there's like a person bleeding out and they say, like, hey, stay back.

01:18:53.080 We're helping this guy.

01:18:53.640 Yeah, you shouldn't be there.

01:18:54.420 Like, let them save a life.

01:18:55.260 But in terms of these events where public figures and politicians are speaking and standing,

01:19:00.500 you should only not be there if you are told you're not allowed to be there explicitly.

01:19:04.080 Don't make the assumption you are not welcome.

01:19:06.660 First mistake people have, psychic barrier.

01:19:08.280 They see a high-profile individual in a building, and they think, well, I can't go in there.

01:19:12.440 You walk in the front door of the lobby, and you might find out you actually are allowed

01:19:15.700 to be there.

01:19:16.300 Like, they'll let you know.

01:19:18.420 When I did the acorn story, an undercover word, we call it ARMS, which is what you get

01:19:23.920 if you pay for our class.

01:19:25.640 Agree, reframe, make the case, shut up.

01:19:27.580 Agree, reframe, make the case, shut up.

01:19:29.560 Agree, reframe, make the case, shut up.

01:19:31.460 That means that when I did the acorn story, I went in there as a, my girlfriend was a

01:19:35.780 prostitute, and I said I was going to, you know, whore her out.

01:19:38.340 It was a legal scheme.

01:19:39.620 And the woman said, I'm sorry, sir.

01:19:40.920 We can't talk to you.

01:19:41.620 I'm like, I had to, I had to ask her seven times, and finally, in the eighth time, I

01:19:47.200 say, listen, I have a unique life situation.

01:19:49.500 My, my colleague here is a lady of the night, and I, and I had to reframe it, and finally

01:19:53.760 she goes, all right, let's sit down.

01:19:56.420 Most people wouldn't even bother after the first attempt, but the second, third, fourth,

01:20:01.300 fifth, sixth, seventh, and eighth, and I know you do this, and I saw your recent one.

01:20:04.080 Who was it with, the guy that you just ambushed?

01:20:06.280 I did, what's his name?

01:20:09.220 The governor of California, Gavin Newsom.

01:20:11.040 Gavin Newsom.

01:20:12.120 I mean, you have to, you have to.

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01:21:43.720 Jump over repeatedly, jump over walls.

01:21:46.660 As security's pushing you, telling you no, no more questions, no more.

01:21:50.020 We're not doing this.

01:21:50.780 And I'm like, you are.

01:21:51.980 I don't care.

01:21:52.460 I hear what you're saying.

01:21:53.460 But also, you're constantly like sort of Dave Letterman interviewing Paris Hilton

01:21:58.340 over and over again.

01:21:59.360 My first confrontation, I came very close to not doing it.

01:22:02.020 My first confrontation was with Zbigniew Brzezinski.

01:22:04.660 I remember sitting in the theater.

01:22:06.740 And as I was in the theater, you had to kind of raise your hand to get picked up.

01:22:11.120 The first two questions, I didn't raise my hand.

01:22:13.180 I was terrified.

01:22:14.260 I was scared.

01:22:15.460 I thought my life was going to be taken away from me.

01:22:18.420 I thought I was going to be black vanned.

01:22:20.000 I thought I was going to be taken out.

01:22:21.980 And it really did just, I think we're having some mic issues.

01:22:26.200 I think your cable's loose or something.

01:22:28.220 I think it's fine now.

01:22:28.840 It came down to me saying, F it.

01:22:31.920 Life is short.

01:22:33.020 I just lost someone that was very close to me.

01:22:35.760 And that was really the motivating cause for saying, you know what?

01:22:38.900 I'm just going to go all in.

01:22:40.660 And I ended up calling him out on financing the Taliban, the Baha'i Jain, for being partly

01:22:45.900 responsible for a major event in New York City, for being a part of major secret societies

01:22:50.220 until the whole event erupted and booed me.

01:22:52.860 And I got literally dragged out of that event and then chased down the street because they

01:22:58.020 were trying to steal the camera that recorded this entire incident.

01:23:01.600 And I remember feeling so amazing afterwards, knowing that I committed to something, knowing

01:23:07.260 that it was extremely uncomfortable.

01:23:08.900 I had a little grandma turn around, curse me out, and say really awful things right to

01:23:14.820 my face, eye to eye.

01:23:16.140 I can't say those things here on this particular broadcast.

01:23:18.580 Do you still get scared?

01:23:19.640 Do you still?

01:23:20.040 Yes.

01:23:20.260 This is so not as heightened as it was.

01:23:22.920 I still get scared.

01:23:24.540 And it's natural because, yes, automatically, because you're going up to a politician and

01:23:30.420 confronting them with an uncomfortable truth.

01:23:33.060 You're going up to them and everyone's kissing their butt.

01:23:36.220 Everyone's telling them how great they are.

01:23:37.940 Everyone's telling them how they love them and how they want to work with them and take

01:23:41.000 a photo with them.

01:23:41.700 And you're like, OK, let's talk about all the lives you ruined.

01:23:44.900 Let's talk about all the businesses you destroyed.

01:23:46.880 Let's talk about all the people you caused horrendous death and suffering.

01:23:50.660 Let's actually hold you accountable to your actions.

01:23:53.300 And there's a huge power transfer when that happens.

01:23:56.380 But also an important aspect of these politicians being humbled and understanding that, holy cow,

01:24:02.480 I have to face accountability to the people that I just screwed over.

01:24:07.240 And that right there is something that I can't recommend enough.

01:24:12.720 It's not just this.

01:24:13.840 It's all that you're talking about getting past security guards and the reverse psychology.

01:24:18.240 It's also like all the president's men, which is a movie about Wilbur and Bernstein in the

01:24:24.900 analog era.

01:24:25.960 They had to show up to people's houses.

01:24:27.620 They had to.

01:24:27.880 Yeah, there's this sort of indefatigability resilience thing that everyone has to have

01:24:32.340 in order to do this work, which is you're getting told no 87 times until they had to

01:24:38.340 show up repeatedly, you know, and I hate to give them kudos, but there are elements of

01:24:43.000 what they did that are remarkable and that they would show up to one's house and she's

01:24:46.800 I'm not going to talk to you.

01:24:47.700 I'm not going to talk to you.

01:24:48.660 And there's this scene of Dustin Hoffman in the living room where he's just, as he's

01:24:54.260 being escorted out the door, drinking his coffee, just trying so hard to get the story

01:24:59.960 when all the obstacles are against you.

01:25:02.320 What makes someone that way?

01:25:03.800 I think it's a desire to get to the truth.

01:25:07.780 And when you're so passionate about that, I call a story, the story you're trying to

01:25:13.120 get, nothing will get in your way.

01:25:15.460 So you have to be, that has to motivate you.

01:25:17.880 That has to be, that has to be your motivator.

01:25:20.680 I have to get there.

01:25:22.240 Nothing is going to get in my way.

01:25:24.300 And, and I mean, these people did something horrible.

01:25:26.600 They're going to continue to do something horrible unless we actually have a conversation

01:25:30.680 and call them out and they see their reaction and they're see the, and they actually face

01:25:34.360 accounts to it.

01:25:35.060 We could get justice.

01:25:36.000 We could actually have some kind of energetic kind of reckoning with these individuals

01:25:42.520 if I just do my job.

01:25:44.040 So that's how I saw it.

01:25:45.080 I saw myself as a werewolf.

01:25:46.600 They were sheep.

01:25:47.140 I was like, I'm hungry.

01:25:48.520 I need to eat.

01:25:49.260 I need to feed off of their fricking lies and all the crap and all the propaganda and

01:25:54.880 PR marketing that they're using in order to screw people over.

01:25:57.960 And I don't care how many times I was denied access.

01:26:00.240 I don't care how many times I was emailed saying, no, do not come to this event.

01:26:03.900 Luke, we know who you are.

01:26:05.100 Please do not come here.

01:26:06.540 I came, I used, I used different names.

01:26:09.000 I used different press credentials.

01:26:10.300 I used different schemes.

01:26:11.280 I came in through different doors.

01:26:13.780 I walked through different angles.

01:26:15.940 I talked my way into it.

01:26:17.720 I got in there and I went right up to that person face to face.

01:26:21.760 And in many instances, many times the PR people that told me I couldn't even come brought me

01:26:27.140 to those individuals face to face.

01:26:28.900 And it's just about showing up.

01:26:32.400 Just show up.

01:26:33.340 Just do it.

01:26:33.840 What was the, what was the, the, the, uh, family guy joke that media matters will get

01:26:37.240 mad at me for bringing up when, uh, James Bond says seven no's and a yes means, it means

01:26:42.060 yes.

01:26:43.200 And it's like, but the, the point is, uh, it's like, it's like you were just saying before,

01:26:48.580 if you go up to someone and say, Hey, I'd like to come and ask some questions.

01:26:51.660 No.

01:26:52.200 Well, can I just ask one or two questions?

01:26:53.600 No.

01:26:54.080 Seriously.

01:26:54.520 How about one question?

01:26:55.320 No.

01:26:55.760 Look, I've got one thing to ask.

01:26:57.260 It's about this.

01:26:57.780 Okay, fine.

01:26:58.480 Fine.

01:26:58.700 You can do it.

01:26:59.880 So just ask the question.

01:27:01.820 I don't even ask permission.

01:27:02.780 No, no, no, I'm saying like if a PR person standing in front of you, like you have to

01:27:05.240 leave, you have to leave, you might get four no's and then a yes.

01:27:08.020 I'm sorry, sir.

01:27:08.920 There were, our schedule's fully booked.

01:27:10.580 Listen, I have a very unique situation.

01:27:12.700 I'm sorry, sir.

01:27:13.320 No, no, no.

01:27:13.600 It's really, okay.

01:27:14.560 What's your situation?

01:27:16.500 My girlfriend's a, she's a prostitute.

01:27:19.600 So wait, okay.

01:27:20.760 Now that's interesting.

01:27:21.700 You reframe, make the case, shut up, reframe, make the case, shut up.

01:27:24.720 And then you, you do whatever it takes to get the story.

01:27:27.060 Ken Aletta, legendary, I think he's a Pulitzer Prize winner.

01:27:29.640 He even said, this is a quote in my book.

01:27:31.320 Like, lie, when he says lie, he means lie to get in, sort of like credentials.

01:27:38.380 Anything to break through that palace guard, anything to get the story.

01:27:42.360 Well, hold on.

01:27:42.980 Lie?

01:27:43.560 I mean, I love, no, no, no, no.

01:27:45.700 I love, not, not, not lie to the, not lie to the audience.

01:27:48.860 Right.

01:27:49.400 You, you, you lie like a journalist, right?

01:27:51.100 For, I'll give you an example.

01:27:51.840 Oliver Darcy, we love this guy, don't we?

01:27:53.360 He wrote a story about the impeachment in Korean to Joe Biden and said, something effective,

01:27:57.640 despite there being no evidence.

01:27:59.180 Well, the inquiry's purpose is to seek out evidence, not to impeach.

01:28:02.780 So he's falsely framing the story to make it seem like it's unwarranted.

01:28:06.140 The inquiry is not about there being evidence, about is there evidence?

01:28:10.160 He wants to falsely frame it.

01:28:11.480 So I'll give you an example in the real world.

01:28:13.220 If you want to learn a lot like a journalist, let's say you're at an event.

01:28:16.440 And I always say, like, if they explicitly kick you out, do not trespass, you get arrested,

01:28:20.520 right?

01:28:21.060 But you go to an event and there's a clear backstage area where, you know, there's prominent

01:28:26.680 people and they're, they're talking, whatever.

01:28:28.300 Always be wary about security issues.

01:28:29.900 If you're going to a high security event, I don't recommend doing this because we don't

01:28:33.020 want anyone getting hurt.

01:28:34.280 And I wouldn't say this is advice.

01:28:35.660 I'm just saying this to give you an example of the psychic barriers.

01:28:39.500 Just because you see a security guard, why would you make the assumption?

01:28:43.060 You're not allowed to go back there.

01:28:44.020 In fact, like I mentioned, sometimes you walk into the, you see a security guard, you walk

01:28:47.240 in the hotel lobby, they'll get the door for you.

01:28:49.140 So don't make assumptions.

01:28:50.260 The other thing is, if they ask you, hey, what do you think you're doing?

01:28:54.020 I'm working.

01:28:55.700 Typically, that answer is sufficient for most people.

01:28:58.000 If you are there working, you're allowed to be there.

01:29:00.140 The question is, what does it mean to be working?

01:29:02.340 What assumptions are they making?

01:29:04.160 It was right.

01:29:04.580 So if they assume you're saying you're working at the event like a bus boy, that's not your

01:29:08.700 fault.

01:29:09.000 You told them the truth.

01:29:09.980 If you're driven and if you're confident, you could get away with anything.

01:29:12.980 And I remember teaching a lot of random people this trick about how to get past certain barriers

01:29:19.500 in order to get to politicians.

01:29:21.440 One of the people that I trained used a lot of the same techniques and literally walked

01:29:26.860 into the Super Bowl without a ticket.

01:29:30.500 And then during the MVP speech, grabbed the microphone from the MVP during the Super Bowl

01:29:37.520 and then told everyone that the government was lying to them about an event.

01:29:41.020 But I'm not a fan of that.

01:29:42.820 Yeah, yeah.

01:29:43.380 But we're just talking about the larger sentiments of...

01:29:46.540 What I'm saying is if you are in a private event and you walk in because you act like

01:29:54.600 you own the place and then someone says, excuse me, sir, what do you think you're doing?

01:29:57.600 You say, I'm working.

01:29:58.780 Please don't bother me.

01:29:59.800 They're going to say, okay.

01:30:00.800 I snuck into a school once.

01:30:02.920 This is the craziest story of my life.

01:30:04.240 It's an obscure anecdote, but people find it interesting.

01:30:07.500 I snuck into a school in 2016 pretending to be someone giving an award to a teacher.

01:30:14.360 And schools are like Fort Knox.

01:30:15.960 I mean, it's like impossible to do this.

01:30:17.880 I did this as James O'Keefe in a light disguise.

01:30:21.200 It's all about your manner.

01:30:22.420 Under cover work, your manner manners more than your disguise.

01:30:25.880 And this guy, this teacher had done cocaine.

01:30:28.700 He's a health teacher.

01:30:30.060 And he had done cocaine.

01:30:30.980 He was offering cocaine.

01:30:31.880 So I have him on video doing this and I go into the school and I said, my name is Bill

01:30:37.120 with New Star Learning.

01:30:39.460 And the secretary is sitting there and she's very skeptical, but I had to be, you know,

01:30:45.500 so she brings me into the gymnasium with all the children.

01:30:49.580 And I present this, it's on YouTube.

01:30:51.460 I present this trophy to this druggie, this drug health teacher, unbeknownst to him.

01:30:56.140 And that was terrifying for me.

01:30:59.540 But I think it's the resilience thing.

01:31:03.580 It's the not taking no for, and by the way, you mentioned lying.

01:31:07.220 Under cover work, it's a question of relative deception.

01:31:09.860 Because if you present yourself as a journalist, what you're going to be told are lies.

01:31:14.280 When you say, I'm from the Washington Post, you're going to be lied to.

01:31:18.280 But if you present yourself as not a journalist, then you're going to get honesty.

01:31:23.440 So it's a question of relative deception.

01:31:25.160 Bill was my fake name too.

01:31:26.880 Oh, is that right?

01:31:27.320 But it was Bill and then last name DeBerg.

01:31:30.340 And then I used that all the time.

01:31:32.240 Do they get that?

01:31:32.640 Do they get that?

01:31:32.960 No, they never got it.

01:31:34.420 It was always freaking hilarious.

01:31:36.540 I guess to get that would be to admit something.

01:31:38.560 So I used to work for a music venue, and it blew my mind when I found out that if you showed—all these people are trying to sneak backstage, like in the movies and stuff.

01:31:49.580 And then when I started working there, guess what?

01:31:51.600 The doors are open with no security at 1 p.m. for load-in and for setup.

01:31:57.060 And so when I get this job, and they're like, come in tomorrow at 1 p.m. to fill out the paperwork, I walk to the venue, and there's this big band playing.

01:32:07.240 It's like a 2,000—it's like a 1,000-something-seat venue, and it's like a decently large mid-sized band.

01:32:12.620 And I'm like, oh, cool.

01:32:13.700 Wow, they're playing.

01:32:14.380 And they're just standing there walking in back and forth, going backstage.

01:32:17.400 I walk in.

01:32:18.380 No security everywhere.

01:32:19.500 The building's empty.

01:32:20.280 And I'm like, well, this is crazy.

01:32:21.960 And then I walk into the green room where there's drinks, and the band's hanging out.

01:32:24.980 I'm like, hey, what's up?

01:32:25.720 They're like, how's it going, man?

01:32:26.440 And I'm like, cool.

01:32:27.020 And I just walk out, and I'm like—

01:32:28.020 It was the way you behaved.

01:32:29.060 Well, no, no, no.

01:32:30.400 So the security only showed up at 6 p.m. an hour before—the security only activated like an hour before doors.

01:32:37.860 Everyone shows up, and then they see the security guards.

01:32:39.840 I'm like, how do I get past the security guards?

01:32:41.020 It's like, you show up early.

01:32:43.320 It's crazy how—I think, like, the venue knows this.

01:32:46.860 They know they don't need security guards because the average person operates so predictably that they only show up right before the event,

01:32:54.100 and that's when you need security.

01:32:55.380 And I went there for a job and realized there was nobody there, and I'm, like, walking around, going wherever I want, going to the basement.

01:33:00.560 And I'm like, nobody cared.

01:33:01.740 And then I tell the guy who was hiring me, I was like, yeah, I walked around.

01:33:04.320 It was really cool.

01:33:04.760 He's like, oh, did you check out the green room?

01:33:05.600 I was like, yeah, the band was there.

01:33:06.760 Is that cool?

01:33:08.040 Nobody cares.

01:33:09.180 You know, so I asked.

01:33:10.760 I was like, do regular people just walk in off the street?

01:33:12.720 He's like, yes.

01:33:13.740 So when the doors are open and they're setting up, someone will be walking by and walk in and ask about what's going on,

01:33:18.760 and they'll hang out for a bit like a regular customer, just like, oh, hey, what are you guys doing today?

01:33:21.920 And they're like, oh, we're going to have a show.

01:33:22.640 It's going to be at 8.

01:33:23.140 Here's the band.

01:33:23.740 And they'll go, oh, cool.

01:33:24.520 And then they'll be like, all right, well, I'll leave, and I'll come back later.

01:33:26.760 Then the fans of the band show up only at the last minute going like, oh, man, I wish I could go backstage.

01:33:30.580 It's like, well, I just – nobody understands that the world is not so rigid.

01:33:38.360 It's more analog.

01:33:40.200 Yeah.

01:33:40.400 Just be – like they assume a guy standing somewhere means something, and then that holds them back.

01:33:45.460 It's sort of a corollary here, but with the methods that we're teaching at OMG for undercover work, this is such a cliche,

01:33:52.420 but people always think, oh, do you get these girls to sleep with these guys to get all this information like the BlackRock guy?

01:33:57.820 And we did one on Fox News recently, too, talking about the Dominion lawsuit.

01:34:03.160 It's actually no.

01:34:04.320 And if you look at the video that one of my colleagues did about Charlie Chester at CNN, this guy – we talked about this last time – was confessing.

01:34:13.120 And it's almost like they need someone to confess to.

01:34:15.860 But the technique that we use, which is a tale as old as time, is you just have to express interest as them.

01:34:22.440 You have to express interest in them as people.

01:34:24.860 You actually care so that you sleep with them.

01:34:27.960 No, no, no.

01:34:28.280 We don't.

01:34:28.920 We don't do that.

01:34:29.620 We don't cross the ethical line.

01:34:31.100 You really have to – it's amazing what people will tell you if you just ask and are genuinely interested in them.

01:34:38.080 Because most people aren't.

01:34:39.440 Most people like to talk about themselves.

01:34:41.680 So it's a simple technique, but there's a great book that we give out called It's Not About Me.

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01:35:46.700 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

01:35:51.140 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

01:35:58.260 We care about you.

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01:36:12.140 Did I mention that we care?

01:36:16.420 Where we would give this to every undercover journalist and you read it and it's like, it's not about me, it's about them.

01:36:23.580 Just little techniques that citizens can learn that will, I think, make them more effective.

01:36:27.680 Because I think knowledge is power and I think being equipped as if it's a citizen, you know, Elon's talking about citizen journalism.

01:36:33.540 Being a little equipped in the laws and how to do it, I think will generate more people doing it.

01:36:39.820 I wonder though, I wonder if in your experience, I imagine there's probably two parent factions of individuals, those who gloat and those who confess, right?

01:36:47.160 Some of these people that you'll confront probably have a deep pain within themselves knowing they've done something wrong and they want someone to tell them it's going to be okay.

01:36:54.720 So they confess.

01:36:55.800 Other people are gloating at the, like, ha ha, guess what I got away with.

01:36:59.960 I mean, Charlie Chester was literally, his eyes were, looked toward the ceiling talking about fear cells.

01:37:06.000 He was either, you know, acting and kind of looking in the mirror way or he was just having an internal dialogue confessing, but never really even looked at the person.

01:37:18.080 Just sort of talking internally aloud because that's what people do.

01:37:22.940 But I think there's probably some people, like when you did the Twitter expose, talking about the censorship and stuff, you did a bunch of them.

01:37:29.500 But it was this one, it was the Asian guy, I'm not sure, it's been a while.

01:37:33.660 There was an Indian guy who said, Twitter is kummy as F-U-C-K.

01:37:38.400 And then there was this other guy calling Elon Musk autistic.

01:37:42.120 The Indian guy, I kind of felt like that was an admission of guilt.

01:37:46.320 He needed to say it because he felt bad for being a part of what this was.

01:37:51.080 That's an interesting read.

01:37:53.900 He's participating in it, but you're saying he's not a communist.

01:37:57.540 Oh, I don't know about that.

01:37:58.340 I'm saying someone will be a part of something doing bad.

01:38:02.300 And they'll think to themselves, but I have to protect my family, so I have no choice.

01:38:05.500 I wish I didn't have to do this.

01:38:06.920 So when someone gives them the opportunity and says, what's happening, the reason they're telling you is because they're trying to absolve themselves of the sin.

01:38:13.360 And there's a third option that some of these engineers that we've covertly recorded are not really that political.

01:38:20.140 They're just identifying reality.

01:38:23.240 This place is communist.

01:38:24.640 And, you know, I don't really know much about that, but that's the way it is.

01:38:26.780 So that's the middle road, right?

01:38:27.700 I think we've seen some people need someone to say, it's fine that you did this.

01:38:32.560 I won't hate you for it because they hate themselves.

01:38:34.920 Then you probably have, as you described, these developers who are probably just like 001010.

01:38:39.300 Like, they're just saying it as it is.

01:38:40.920 But then I think there are people who are going to smirk and be like, you want to know what I did?

01:38:44.960 Man, I took these files and nobody's going to catch them.

01:38:47.500 They're gloating.

01:38:48.200 Okay, there's actually a really important point.

01:38:50.620 I was talking to Vivek about this.

01:38:51.980 I interviewed him and he said, what you do as an investigative reporter is you catch people on tape admitting things.

01:39:01.880 People are willing to do things that they're not willing to admit that they're willing to do.

01:39:06.260 It's human nature.

01:39:07.240 You're exposing the things that people will do, but they'll never admit that I'll do this.

01:39:12.740 That's the job of an investigative reporter is to reveal secrets that people are willing to keep for the wrong reasons.

01:39:19.520 And that's exactly what you're talking about is I did this thing, but don't tell anybody.

01:39:23.460 And all these stories have this in common.

01:39:26.280 All good stories have deception.

01:39:29.180 I don't want people to know.

01:39:30.680 And why is it?

01:39:31.440 Why is it that we don't want people to know?

01:39:34.240 Is it shame?

01:39:35.680 Is it fear of social ostracism?

01:39:38.400 Is it public humiliation?

01:39:40.020 If they knew that I was wanting to do this?

01:39:42.120 They all know it's wrong.

01:39:43.500 Whether they're gloating or confessing or just stating it, the only reason it's being said in private is because they know it was wrong.

01:39:50.260 And by the way, you just mentioned the word wrong, i.e. right and wrong, i.e. good and evil.

01:39:56.800 Morality, morality, and the fact that there still is a morality, the fact that the villain in this case, the subject, the subject of undercover work, knows that it's wrong means that the subject has a sense of right and wrong.

01:40:08.480 Yeah.

01:40:08.700 And that shared morality, although the Venn diagram is shrinking, that morality, that righteous indignation that we summon from exposing things that our people are willing to do that they're not willing to admit that they're willing to do, that is the thing that keeps the fabric of society bound together.

01:40:29.480 Because an investigative reporter summits righteous indignation and patrols the boundaries of the moral order, testing and affirming what is and what is not a shock to people's conscience.

01:40:41.700 That's the role of an investigative—and by the way, The Washington Post doesn't do this.

01:40:45.460 No one does this anymore.

01:40:46.800 There's a great tweet I referenced quite a bit.

01:40:48.880 It said, no one's trying to solve the problems anymore.

01:40:51.880 They're trying to get wealthy enough so the problems don't apply to them.

01:40:56.280 So that's what I see when I look at these journalists who are willing to lie, and they all do it.

01:41:01.840 It's amazing, especially NBC News, one of the worst.

01:41:04.900 And it's because in their minds, they were like, I got to get the clicks.

01:41:07.520 I got to get paid.

01:41:08.640 I understand everything's burning down around me, but at least I'll be on the lifeboat.

01:41:14.080 We got to get the clicks.

01:41:15.520 It's all about the clicks, isn't it?

01:41:17.420 It's all about that.

01:41:18.440 That's all it is.

01:41:19.580 I think it's worshiping demons, but I'm a little bit more nuanced on this.

01:41:23.300 Yeah, but it's the banality of demon worship versus overt demon worship.

01:41:25.640 I think it's a combination of both.

01:41:27.140 I think there's definitely layers of it that could be explained in both kind of single ways.

01:41:31.700 But again, I'm just being kind of a little sensationalistic here when I just said that.

01:41:35.940 But I kind of do wonder, like, is it them just who are propagandized and really do believe this stuff by the evil people?

01:41:44.300 Or are they actually evil?

01:41:45.540 I think it depends on the individual and on the case as well.

01:41:48.100 Well, there's the banality of and the malice of, right?

01:41:50.100 Well, when someone says, James, I want you to commit suicide, and he was on the board, I mean, what is that?

01:41:56.120 That's nasty.

01:41:57.080 Malicious evil.

01:41:58.040 I mean, that's so – it's unconscionable.

01:42:02.200 And the farther we get – like, the farther you get to the truth when you're with these folks, I mean, do you feel that?

01:42:07.800 Do you feel the presence of evil?

01:42:09.100 Yeah, absolutely.

01:42:10.340 Absolutely.

01:42:10.660 I have had experiences in my life where I have felt what I can only describe as the presence of evil from bad people.

01:42:17.780 Because you mentioned they know it's wrong.

01:42:20.420 That word wrong, right and wrong.

01:42:22.220 We still have that in this country, right?

01:42:24.100 We still – people still understand that.

01:42:26.220 And I think what we're seeing a lot of – like Oliver Darcy.

01:42:29.360 He's our principal example today.

01:42:31.520 He knows what he's doing is wrong.

01:42:33.500 He doesn't care.

01:42:34.080 You think he knows that it's wrong?

01:42:35.800 I know he knows it's wrong.

01:42:36.800 I – you know, not only have I – I met him in person on several occasions.

01:42:40.880 There was one point a few years ago where he asked to grab a drink and talk about what was going on.

01:42:45.080 And it's just like these journalists, they know what they're doing is wrong.

01:42:51.280 Yeah.

01:42:51.620 They know what they're doing is wrong.

01:42:53.080 They have to live with that.

01:42:54.200 They have to live with that.

01:42:55.220 But they –

01:42:55.540 But their mortgages get paid, though.

01:42:57.640 Right.

01:42:58.560 And this is the root.

01:43:00.020 You're not happy if you're –

01:43:00.900 They're not.

01:43:01.220 I've wondered to myself what is the root of corruption or what is the most common factor in it?

01:43:06.300 And it is typically the desire to benefit yourself, your friends, and your family.

01:43:12.700 And that sounds on its surface rather noble.

01:43:15.040 But you'll see a lot of people who embezzle.

01:43:16.960 Why?

01:43:17.360 Well, he wanted to get – he wanted to buy his wife the new car.

01:43:19.820 He wanted to buy a car for himself.

01:43:21.380 It's a degree of selfishness that surrounds an individual and their immediate relationships.

01:43:26.300 And James, they're not happy.

01:43:27.780 They're depressed.

01:43:28.860 They're alcoholics.

01:43:29.920 They're pill poppers.

01:43:30.840 They're drug addicts.

01:43:31.560 You have to suppress the voice, man.

01:43:32.660 And you have to do it.

01:43:34.500 And this is what I realized amongst the corporate media when I was infiltrating them.

01:43:38.900 I'm like, holy cow, there's a bunch of drug addicts here.

01:43:41.520 They're all going freaking crazy.

01:43:43.640 They're all partying.

01:43:44.160 Because they have to compensate for their lack of happiness.

01:43:47.180 They need to quiet the voice in their head that's like, hey, this is kind of messed up that I'm doing this.

01:43:52.320 And you don't have to tell me how you know this, but you're telling us that you've learned or that you know that Oliver Darcy is – he knows what he's doing.

01:43:59.340 What I'm saying is I've had – when I've met with him years ago, my takeaway from the conversation we had is that he's aware of the game being played and he's playing it and he doesn't care.

01:44:08.580 That's really wrong.

01:44:09.880 That's really bad.

01:44:10.400 But this is tons of journalists.

01:44:11.400 There are some journalists that I've worked with when I was at Fusion who I genuinely feel are completely oblivious and just doing what they're told.

01:44:19.040 That's a little – yeah, different.

01:44:20.160 You know, I remember having a conversation with one journalist when I was at Fusion and talking about, you know, Trump and Trump supporters.

01:44:27.140 And I said – and one of the issues with this company, for instance, is that it's taking a hard partisan line and insulting people who feel aggrieved.

01:44:33.380 And this journalist was like, really?

01:44:36.000 That's happening?

01:44:36.860 And I'm like, you really don't know what people think or feel, do you?

01:44:40.540 But it was a tech journalist.

01:44:42.020 And so the tech journalists are fairly – and I mean it's in a literal sense – lightly autistic.

01:44:47.140 They're very logical, you know, 111001.

01:44:50.520 But then there were people who are just stupid and they'll believe whatever they're told.

01:44:54.140 But I have met people in this career that when you sit down with them next to them, before a word is said, it feels like there is a magnetic pressure of some kind of force pushing against you that feels evil.

01:45:08.420 And, like, it's – I wouldn't say –

01:45:10.740 It's dark.

01:45:11.120 It's hollow.

01:45:11.780 It's crazy.

01:45:11.940 It's like emptying.

01:45:13.160 It's like a void.

01:45:14.260 It's like you feel like you're sitting next to the devil or a demon.

01:45:17.400 Like, it's crazy.

01:45:17.800 On the flip side of that is the hero, the brave Jody O'Malley, Kyle Serafin, Eric Cochran, Spencer Meats, these whistleblowers who actually do give up their homes, their lives.

01:45:30.940 And what would – like, what's – Tim, what is your – because I've got mine.

01:45:34.620 But what is your message to those people – like the FBI agents who just go along, it's like I got the pension.

01:45:39.840 But to give that up, it is hard.

01:45:41.860 I mean, no question, materialistically speaking, maybe not spiritually.

01:45:46.800 I disagree, though.

01:45:47.460 I think if someone came to me and said X million dollars for insert evil act, the answer is no.

01:45:56.380 That doesn't matter.

01:45:57.900 And I wonder what it is.

01:45:59.140 I don't think it's hard.

01:46:01.500 Suffering, pain.

01:46:02.620 These people do suffer.

01:46:03.680 The FBI agents that are engaging in evil actions under the excuse that I don't want to lose my paycheck or whatever, all they are saying is it is easier for them to be evil than to be good.

01:46:16.700 That's it.

01:46:17.540 If someone came to you and said they'd give you a million dollars to, you know, like torture a dog, most people are going to say, how dare you?

01:46:25.460 In fact, most cops in this country will not accept a bribe over minor infractions.

01:46:30.680 You go to other countries, they don't care.

01:46:32.160 But then you look at someone like Dr. Fauci, offer him millions of dollars of tortured dogs, and they'll say, you got it, no problem.

01:46:38.160 And then he'll put flies on the face.

01:46:40.000 Well, they put bags over beagles' heads and then had starving gnats eat the faces while the dog was alive.

01:46:46.160 What sane person would be like, yes, I'll do that for a minute?

01:46:49.500 So this is my point.

01:46:51.180 If someone, if they say, a lot of these law enforcement officers who are bad, the reason why we see so many people confess is because they know

01:47:02.060 they're evil, they know they're a component of evil, and they don't want to bring risk upon themselves.

01:47:07.220 So when, you know, Trump is being targeted, I've met various people who work in the intelligent agencies.

01:47:14.940 We actually have a lot of fans who are former or current FBI.

01:47:17.680 In fact, we've had Kyle Serafin, am I getting his name right?

01:47:20.880 Yeah.

01:47:21.340 The former, the FBI whistleblower.

01:47:22.900 Yes.

01:47:23.160 And what I hear from a lot of these people is that it is the same inside as it is outside, that it is a culture war, that there are many good people, many who even like Trump, but they know if they speak up, they'll be attacked, they'll be persecuted, they'll be fired, they'll be investigated, and they're scared to do it.

01:47:40.040 And that's the call to action, because you need to be fired and investigated, and that's, but that's what we're asking people to do, right?

01:47:46.880 To stand up for.

01:47:47.560 Well, so when, so all that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing.

01:47:51.540 And so the people that I meet, I'm just like, I'm sorry, I gotta be honest, if you expect me to have respect for you after you just told me you know the institution is evil, but you participate in it, what's my reaction supposed to be to that?

01:48:03.080 That I'm so sorry this is happening to you, or please stop being evil?

01:48:06.920 Yeah, you need to ask yourself, are you a good person, or are you a bad person?

01:48:11.420 And are you okay, willing to deal with the larger energetic ramifications of this with the spiritual war for the rest of your existence?

01:48:18.300 What was it, the Milgram experiment?

01:48:19.400 Was that what it was?

01:48:20.120 Where they said, electrocute the person, don't worry, it's fine?

01:48:22.660 Yeah.

01:48:22.940 Was that Milgram?

01:48:23.940 And I wonder, for a lot of these people in law enforcement, and I know there's a lot of good cops, like I said, most of them won't accept a bribe.

01:48:29.400 I mean, there's scruples, there's fear, it's like, I do not want to do that, that's wrong.

01:48:32.400 And those psychic barriers are good, but I really do wonder sometimes about a lot of these feds, that if they were ordered to take a bag of puppies and throw it off a bridge, they'd probably just do it.

01:48:42.400 Well, the FBI agents in my apartment, I could see it in their faces, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I could see half of them are like, what are we doing here?

01:48:50.000 I mean, I could just, I could just see it, it's just, but they're following the orders, historically, that doesn't work so well.

01:48:57.720 I have hope, because this is America, I feel like, well, Rome, and everyone's talking about this right now, and as we descend into chaos, I don't even know, I hope that we will, as a society, make it to the election every day.

01:49:11.180 Every week, it seems like there's another monumental, chaotic, but I think, because we're Americans, I feel like there's a different ethos, there's a bravery, there's a frontiersman, there's a willingness.

01:49:24.840 It's just that I have, I see this, I was just going to the airport, Tim, last night, very late, TSA agent looks at my ID, and they, you know, they look at me, look.

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01:51:01.800 Look at my ID, the guy goes, they haven't killed you yet, James?

01:51:06.560 That's what he said.

01:51:07.980 That's what he said.

01:51:08.800 And he goes, keep up the good work.

01:51:11.220 And I'm like, why are you whispering?

01:51:12.220 Why are you whispering?

01:51:12.960 You coward.

01:51:14.780 I mean, but this is what happens.

01:51:16.000 I mean, they haven't killed me yet.

01:51:17.760 I mean, you know.

01:51:18.480 I got that a couple times too.

01:51:19.920 And I'm like, yeah, thanks.

01:51:21.340 That's not very comforting, okay?

01:51:22.900 You're not really helping me here.

01:51:24.360 Meanwhile, I got the organization that I founded who blew $8 million and he took black cars.

01:51:30.040 I mean, this is the spiritual war.

01:51:31.600 And it's within each and every one of us.

01:51:33.640 It's literally a fight against human nature itself.

01:51:37.260 That's what this is.

01:51:38.060 It's a fight against the person in their heart.

01:51:40.680 Am I going to appeal to the goodness in my heart?

01:51:43.540 Like you just said, like you just articulated so eloquently.

01:51:46.960 Am I going to do the right thing, even though it's going to result probably in suffering and toil and sacrifice in a materialistic sense?

01:51:53.800 Or am I going to do the right thing?

01:51:55.500 That's the fight.

01:51:56.320 Or the wrong thing and follow the demonic sociopaths.

01:51:58.780 What people need to understand, like this guy who whispers to you.

01:52:02.840 Whispered.

01:52:03.400 It's Buddy.

01:52:04.900 I'm not the target.

01:52:06.820 You are.

01:52:07.740 I should have said that.

01:52:08.520 You see, what people need to understand is going after James O'Keefe is very, very difficult.

01:52:14.840 If they are to ban someone with millions of followers from a social media platform, they know they are inviting a massive PR backlash.

01:52:23.180 And you've got to be careful of even social martyrdom, like banning someone creates like this minor version of it where it's like, no, we rally around this person.

01:52:31.460 They end up getting more subscribers.

01:52:32.960 You ban someone off of YouTube or Twitter, they're going to add 50,000.

01:52:36.180 If they have a million subscribers, they're going to add 50,000 to 100,000 paying members overnight, giving them substantially more money than they ever would have gotten.

01:52:42.260 What people need to understand is that when Twitter started banning everybody, we heard the stories of high profile people.

01:52:48.380 Oh, they banned Alex Jones.

01:52:49.820 But I hope everyone realizes they banned 100,000 regular Americans before they got to Alex Jones.

01:52:56.220 They are mowing through people who can't fight back first.

01:52:59.360 So these people who are whispering like, hey, they're coming for you.

01:53:01.960 Don't worry.

01:53:02.380 I'm fine, bro.

01:53:03.340 They're not going to show up to my house.

01:53:04.660 I have armed guards.

01:53:05.940 The activists are going to show up to your house first.

01:53:07.600 I'm trying to prevent that.

01:53:08.640 But I need you to stand with me so that we can have this fight and we can prevent these things from happening.

01:53:14.380 But the stories we get of the people who are shot and killed, of the people whose homes are protested or attacked, these aren't high profile individuals.

01:53:22.920 In some instances, yes, of course, Tucker Carlson happened to Cassandra Fairbanks, my friend.

01:53:27.400 But a lot of the stories we don't even hear about because a person with 100 followers who uses Twitter just to be involved and says, I'm not going to say anything.

01:53:36.220 One day they wake up and a brick flies through their window.

01:53:38.640 And then who do they have to ask for help?

01:53:41.240 Nobody.

01:53:42.020 Or their business is looted or they get stabbed as they're walking down the street.

01:53:46.300 And those things happen to somebody.

01:53:48.040 There's no question.

01:53:48.780 I'm just there's no question, though, that it's painful.

01:53:52.660 OK.

01:53:53.040 And I think that the moral of this story is that this actually did happen.

01:53:56.840 I'm not making this up.

01:53:57.620 This was last night going to the airport.

01:53:59.580 The guy actually said to me and at first I'm thinking, is this guy not like me?

01:54:03.600 Sometimes people that don't like you, they'll look at you, but they'll never say a word.

01:54:08.260 Because they don't want to acknowledge the other.

01:54:10.720 The communists don't want to engage in conversation.

01:54:13.480 But a fan, there will always be that moment where they look at you and look at the idea, look at you.

01:54:17.260 They haven't killed you yet.

01:54:18.920 And I was just so taken.

01:54:20.120 I was so taken aback by that.

01:54:21.980 But that was the right response.

01:54:23.400 But then I thought that guy, he probably, you know, he probably makes, you know, $65,000 a year.

01:54:28.860 He has his apartment.

01:54:29.700 Maybe he's married.

01:54:31.200 And imagine what I'm asking him to give up.

01:54:35.060 But, but there are people who are willing to give things up because there are some things more important in life than the mortgage.

01:54:43.100 And there are people who are willing.

01:54:45.260 We have a thousand people.

01:54:47.160 How full does your belly need to be?

01:54:49.800 You know, I think this issue for me is, for one, I understand the fears of those who have children.

01:54:55.460 A greater fear than anything.

01:54:58.120 I told the story, actually the video might be coming out at some point today.

01:55:01.280 Actually, I think it was 10 a.m.

01:55:02.420 The story of Andre the Rooster.

01:55:04.200 I tweeted about this.

01:55:05.060 Andre, it was a rooster and a raccoon attacked his flock and he sacrificed himself to save his hens.

01:55:12.060 And there was, it's a silly story.

01:55:14.040 It's kind of funny.

01:55:14.560 And I like, I like using Rooster as an example of, of this, the great sacrifice because chickens are hilarious.

01:55:20.400 It's just like this, it's silly to associate this bravery with an animal we associate with cowardice.

01:55:24.920 But what I tweeted was, the woman whose rooster died, Andre, defending the hens, said that he was fearless.

01:55:32.640 And I said, Andre was not fearless.

01:55:34.540 Andre feared for his life, but there was something that he feared greater than death.

01:55:39.860 And it was standing over the dead bodies of his family.

01:55:42.980 And that is what motivates so many people to be involved in the fight.

01:55:48.260 And so when we're talking earlier and you guys saying your heart's pounding out of your chest and you're like, you're terrified.

01:55:54.060 I always understand what, I don't understand what people, people are like, oh, you're so fearless and doing these things.

01:55:58.560 And I'm like, bro, like when I used to cover a conflict crisis, people would be like, ha ha, Tim's scared.

01:56:03.320 I'd be like, are you nuts?

01:56:04.540 People are shooting at each other.

01:56:05.780 Of course I'm scared.

01:56:06.680 If I went in there with no, with completely feeling nothing, I'd probably die.

01:56:10.620 Yeah.

01:56:11.060 But it's overcoming the fear and bringing yourself to do the job that is important is what, that's courage.

01:56:17.600 And the community of people.

01:56:19.240 Because there are some days, Tim, even I'm like, this is, this is.

01:56:22.260 This is a lot.

01:56:22.740 Last week when I went through with this, you know, this is so complicated to explain, but 30, 40 lawyers, I have no indemnification.

01:56:30.980 I still have to pay my lawyers in the FBI case.

01:56:33.080 I have to pay the legal bills of all the journalists I've ever worked with and the company I founded is suing me.

01:56:37.360 I mean, think about.

01:56:38.620 How many lawsuits are you dealing with?

01:56:40.400 That's Kafka-esque.

01:56:41.560 I, I, I, I, so many, I've been sued so many times and I'm, I'm now indemnifying the, I'm, I'm, I'm having to provide for people while the organization I founded is trying to kill me.

01:56:55.600 While my former board member wants me to commit suicide, while the government's trying to attack me, I'm under criminal investigation, you know, probed in all these different ways.

01:57:05.120 And, and, and I just think some days like, this is really hard.

01:57:08.500 This is really difficult.

01:57:09.940 And sometimes the only thing you do when you're, when you're struggling is you, you have to surround yourself with like-minded people who are also willing, a community of people.

01:57:20.200 That's the only way.

01:57:21.440 You have to build a community of people who are willing and you have to be brothers, you know, the band of brothers, to borrow the Shakespearean analogy.

01:57:29.620 James, you could, you could just stop right now.

01:57:33.240 You'll be rich for the rest of your life and you can go on your sailboat and you can sit back and sail the beautiful oceans.

01:57:40.400 Why resist?

01:57:41.660 Why, why, why, why, why be it, why be a challenge to these individuals?

01:57:44.340 I ask that, uh, not seriously, because I, I think a lot of people really don't understand that for, you know, all of us, a lot of people do understand.

01:57:52.880 I'm not saying you don't understand.

01:57:53.680 I'm saying there's some people who just don't get it.

01:57:55.560 It would be so much easier if, you know, I work 16 hours a day, basically.

01:58:00.200 I went from sunup to sundown, I'm working.

01:58:01.600 And if I'm not working, it's in between because I'm eating and exercising or something.

01:58:04.080 And, uh, I mean, if I got rid of all of this and just did private consulting, I would be rich and I'd live a life of comfort and leisure with no conflict and not a, not a care in the world because I'm smart enough to survive on my own.

01:58:19.280 But instead, I choose to do some of the most, like, strenuous and stressful work imaginable, engaging in some of the most dangerous topics.

01:58:27.760 And it's, um, I forgot who said it, better to be a fisherman than meddling the affairs of men or something like that.

01:58:32.100 But we, we, we actively choose what is hard, but what is right when we could have easily chosen luxury and leisure.

01:58:39.940 And so many people do.

01:58:41.360 So many celebrities privately.

01:58:43.260 Oh, I can't tell you.

01:58:44.400 Oh, the celebrities that I've met who are like, I'm voting for Trump.

01:58:47.560 And then I'm like, maybe you should tweet that right now.

01:58:49.760 Oh, no way, man.

01:58:50.940 I lose my money and fame and fortune.

01:58:53.180 Yeah.

01:58:53.320 And I'm just like, you know what?

01:58:54.540 Look, I'll, I'll, I'll accept that at the very least you are doing something you think is good in voting for Trump.

01:58:59.420 But if every one of these individuals, so many musicians, so many actors who, oh, man, it's, it's, it's hilarious.

01:59:07.600 I think it comes down, you have to be an honest person, don't you?

01:59:10.920 Because if you're honest with yourself, you say, why, why don't you do that?

01:59:13.860 For everyone, it's a choiceless choice.

01:59:15.900 You don't, it's not like I think about that and weigh it.

01:59:18.120 I'm like, well, gee, I could do, I don't, I don't even think that calculus would ever enter my mind.

01:59:22.480 I do enjoy going on my boat once in a while just to get away from things for a day.

01:59:26.940 But I don't even think that I've thought about it in that calculation.

01:59:30.540 I think it comes down to transparency and honesty, finding people who are sincere and honest.

01:59:35.640 Because if you're honest with yourself, if you're an honest human being, I mean, really honest, you know, I could never be, I could never be those people that you just mentioned.

01:59:43.560 I'm a famous actor or whatever it is, but I'm not going to say what I believe.

01:59:47.420 I wouldn't, how could you be that way?

01:59:49.780 For me, I don't know how to do that.

01:59:52.860 I know, I agree.

01:59:53.960 And neither do you, neither do you, and neither do you.

01:59:56.840 So the fact that they're doing that is wrong.

02:00:00.400 They're lying by omission at the least.

02:00:02.320 And they're allowing the system to get away with hurting so many innocent human beings with their silence.

02:00:07.840 You know, I hate to be Debbie Downer, I guess, but you know what you were saying earlier on in the show, James,

02:00:13.500 about how the nature of humans, and there's so much darkness.

02:00:17.660 Right now, we're watching this fight with Matt Gaetz and the GOP establishment.

02:00:23.460 And they want to expel him.

02:00:24.800 They're accusing him of these ridiculous and insane issues of impropriety and ethics violations.

02:00:29.920 And then you get these other members of Congress who just fall in line behind Kevin McCarthy and try to justify why it's a good thing.

02:00:36.520 And I'm just, I'm like, sorry, I'm not in your system.

02:00:40.880 I am not beholden to the pressures of Congress and political leadership.

02:00:44.000 I'm not worried about re-election.

02:00:45.800 I have not, there is nothing that will require me to say Kevin McCarthy should be speaker.

02:00:52.760 Why?

02:00:53.940 He's, he, he, it's the same old machine that Americans hate, the corrupt system of Congress.

02:00:57.880 And there's only a small handful of Republicans who are actually willing to step up and say, screw off with this.

02:01:03.020 And Matt Gaetz is basically, basically it.

02:01:05.200 When you, when, when I see Thomas Massey, Lauren Boebert, Marge Taylor Greene get behind the establishment maneuver, that's it.

02:01:11.200 The path of least resistance.

02:01:12.840 They're thinking, I'd imagine, and I'll talk to him about it because I do like them.

02:01:16.720 But I'm imagining they're saying something like, if all I can do is get some things done while I'm here, I might as well do it.

02:01:23.520 Because if I resist, I'll get removed and get nothing done.

02:01:25.800 And I'm kind of like, wow, that is the losingest strategy I've ever heard.

02:01:29.340 And I've heard it over and over and over again my whole life.

02:01:31.340 People who say, you get into Congress, you want to do all these big things, and then you realize you're up against this machine.

02:01:36.940 If you fight them, they'll kick you out and get somebody else.

02:01:39.340 So it's best to just get your incremental change.

02:01:41.600 And I'm like, you're not getting incremental change.

02:01:43.320 You're getting 99 steps towards evil so you can try and get one step towards good.

02:01:47.180 Then the next person who comes in erases your one step 99 times over.

02:01:50.640 That's right.

02:01:50.980 That's why, that's why solutions are outside of politics.

02:01:53.840 It's all about the truth.

02:01:55.080 It's about enlightening people and revelation and revealing what's happening.

02:01:59.720 I don't think that, I think Congress is in a state of absolute dysfunction and there is no hope in politics.

02:02:05.660 It's the people, it's educating the people.

02:02:08.200 I don't know what the solution is with that.

02:02:09.860 It's impossible to govern.

02:02:11.580 I've been playing poker quite a bit, so I've got all the poker analogies.

02:02:14.240 But there's lessons in the things that I do in my life from skateboarding and poker.

02:02:17.920 And the way I explain it to people is, if you're looking at this battle between Matt Gaetz and Kevin McCarthy, what you have here is Thomas Massey.

02:02:28.540 Well, actually, I think Massey truly believes.

02:02:30.860 And he's actually, like, adamant about it.

02:02:33.180 I think Massey's a good guy.

02:02:34.640 He is.

02:02:35.480 And, but he's very defensive of McCarthy.

02:02:37.620 I think he's viewing this as, like, is a good thing with McCarthy.

02:02:41.260 I don't, I don't see him for the most part as someone who's, like, selling out their values because they're scared.

02:02:45.000 But there are other people who have voted for McCarthy.

02:02:47.960 And these are the kind of players in a poker table who probably have a really, really good hand, probably could win, but fold because they're scared anyway.

02:02:56.400 And then Matt Gaetz is the guy whose guy's hand is okay.

02:02:59.680 And he shoves all his chips right in the middle of the table and says, let's play.

02:03:03.280 How scared are you?

02:03:04.380 And the machine got scared and backed down and folded to him.

02:03:07.520 You have to be willing to take the risks like the founding fathers did.

02:03:11.380 The founding fathers of this country thought we would lose.

02:03:15.000 They thought that if we went to war with the crown for independence, we would lose and be crushed.

02:03:19.340 And they said, let's do it.

02:03:21.800 And fortunately for us, the French intervened, giving us a massive advantage and destabilized and because they were at war with Britain.

02:03:29.820 But the attitude there was, you know what?

02:03:32.560 I might lose.

02:03:33.560 But let's see how much you're willing to lose.

02:03:35.920 How much do you care?

02:03:36.900 And the funny thing is, when I ask my British friends about the American Revolution, they're like, it's a footnote in our history, dude.

02:03:41.480 Like, our history goes back a thousand plus years.

02:03:43.380 We don't care about this one small period for one of our colonies.

02:03:46.940 Our country is here.

02:03:48.100 And we had colonies all over the world.

02:03:50.080 You are one of them.

02:03:51.060 The difference is, the difference now, Tim, is, did you see the image of Letitia James, the attorney general, staring at Trump in the courtroom?

02:04:00.560 Did you happen to see that this week?

02:04:02.020 Yeah, I did.

02:04:02.320 There's this profound video, I think it was Fox carrying it.

02:04:06.100 Or the judge's face or eyes, too.

02:04:07.760 And turn the volume, don't turn the volume on because they're doing a newscast there.

02:04:11.440 But Letitia James in the courtroom with Donald Trump.

02:04:14.660 And she's the attorney general of New York.

02:04:17.100 There's an image of her, but there's a video of it somewhere.

02:04:19.880 I posted, if you go to my Twitter feed and scroll down a couple tweets, you'll see the video that I quote tweeted.

02:04:26.540 I just want you to look at Letitia James' face, the attorney general of New York.

02:04:31.540 Just scroll down a few.

02:04:34.160 Keep going.

02:04:35.080 Keep going.

02:04:36.320 Keep going.

02:04:37.740 There it is.

02:04:38.580 Okay.

02:04:39.020 Make that large.

02:04:40.040 Let me pull this up.

02:04:41.840 All right.

02:04:42.600 There's Trump.

02:04:43.520 I don't think he had to be there, but it was optically good for him to be there.

02:04:46.620 This is the clown judge.

02:04:47.980 We all know the clown judge.

02:04:49.760 But let's take a look at the attorney general.

02:04:51.280 There she's sitting in the second row.

02:04:55.720 About 10 seconds in there.

02:04:58.640 And they get the photographers in the courtroom.

02:05:01.300 There's Trump in the front row.

02:05:03.360 And look at Letitia.

02:05:04.640 Keep going.

02:05:05.460 Keep going.

02:05:07.000 Look at her in the second row there.

02:05:10.020 Just staring at him?

02:05:10.860 Keep going.

02:05:12.300 Sitting behind.

02:05:13.980 It's going to have to...

02:05:15.080 There she is.

02:05:17.520 Look at the way she looks at him.

02:05:19.740 Look at the way she looks at him.

02:05:22.340 Look at that.

02:05:23.700 I mean, that is the chief law enforcement officer of the state of New York.

02:05:29.700 This is the difference between the founding of the country and now.

02:05:32.580 In a courtroom, just ran on a campaign, find me the man and I'll show you the crime.

02:05:37.520 I'm going to make him famous.

02:05:38.680 And I mean, and the problem with this image, such an amazing image, is that half the people

02:05:44.280 will look at this like me and be outraged at the absurdity of, quote unquote, and the

02:05:49.520 other people will be enthralled.

02:05:51.220 This is great.

02:05:52.720 And how do you govern?

02:05:54.780 There is no...

02:05:55.780 How do you govern a country?

02:05:57.080 You talk about Gates and McCarthy.

02:05:58.720 That dichotomy is the challenge in America.

02:06:02.060 How do you govern a country?

02:06:03.260 This is why I...

02:06:04.780 There are so many grains of sand in the Civil War heap.

02:06:08.700 And there are a lot of people who have been consistently saying for a long time, I'm wrong,

02:06:13.440 I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

02:06:14.560 I don't care.

02:06:15.120 Like, I can be wrong.

02:06:15.760 That's fine.

02:06:16.160 If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

02:06:16.940 That's fine.

02:06:17.360 But I'm just going to say right now, if I came to you six months ago, six months ago,

02:06:22.480 after everything you've seen with the indictments, I think six months ago, he wasn't indicted

02:06:28.560 yet.

02:06:28.820 When did he get it?

02:06:29.320 He got it a couple months ago.

02:06:30.240 But if I came to you six months ago and said, a judge will summarily rule that Trump's properties

02:06:37.300 are worth a tenth of what they're actually worth, or a twentieth, and that he committed

02:06:41.480 fraud without a trial, without hearing evidence, would you believe me?

02:06:46.960 Would you believe me if I said right now what they're going to do, and I could be wrong about

02:06:51.260 this.

02:06:51.580 I'm just saying, here's something I see.

02:06:53.280 They've already stated in this trial that Donald Trump committed fraud.

02:06:57.160 The judge banged the gavel without a trial, with no hearing.

02:07:00.360 She ran for office in New York on the premise that she would get him.

02:07:04.080 Yep.

02:07:04.380 They did.

02:07:04.860 The judge rejected the evidence of the lenders saying the properties are worth what they're

02:07:09.060 worth.

02:07:09.440 And the judge said, no, they're not.

02:07:11.480 So here's what happens next.

02:07:13.220 What they're doing now in this hearing is they've already determined summarily that Trump

02:07:18.740 committed fraud.

02:07:19.440 Now they're trying to determine whether or not Trump's organization falsified documents.

02:07:23.340 But if the court's premise is that a $500 million property is only worth $50 million,

02:07:29.440 any document Trump's organization created that says $500 million is thereby falsified.

02:07:35.360 Then when the judge bangs the gavel and says, see, we heard the evidence.

02:07:39.060 This proves it.

02:07:40.180 Trump, you now owe the state of New York $250 million.

02:07:43.820 That $500 million building you have, it's actually worth five.

02:07:48.020 You now owe us $245 million and we've seized your building.

02:07:50.980 I'm telling people they've arrested Trump's lawyers.

02:07:54.040 They've sanctioned Trump's lawyers, other lawyers in other states to the tunes of millions

02:07:57.240 of dollars.

02:07:58.140 They've already summarily declared he committed fraud and are arguing his properties are worth

02:08:02.720 a fraction of their value.

02:08:03.920 And they're demanding $250 million from him.

02:08:07.220 The next move is the government of New York will seize Trump's buildings and properties,

02:08:12.800 likely auction them off to their allies.

02:08:15.640 Maybe not.

02:08:17.060 But you say, how do we govern?

02:08:18.640 I don't think there's a government when the federal government is in on it, attacking

02:08:22.980 the former president.

02:08:24.020 The FBI has said Trump supporters are terrorists.

02:08:26.960 All of them.

02:08:27.900 Every single one of Trump's followers are terrorists.

02:08:29.680 They're going to do it.

02:08:30.480 That's the message to the TSA agent is see that right over there.

02:08:33.420 See that they're doing.

02:08:34.340 That's what they're going to do to you.

02:08:36.460 That's what they're going to do.

02:08:37.360 That's what they're going to do to people they don't agree with.

02:08:39.440 So I think our politics are completely broken, obviously.

02:08:43.320 Obviously, we're beyond that.

02:08:44.640 Look at Staten Island.

02:08:45.180 The locals of Staten Island protested that they're bringing in non-citizens under police

02:08:50.620 protection, and the police arrested the residents.

02:08:53.940 They've brought in people who are not from your from your home and not even a citizen

02:08:57.440 of your country and then arrested you for having a problem with it.

02:09:01.560 They've offered these people free money, free travel, special legal protections and work

02:09:06.380 permits, and then arrested you when you said, hey, wait a minute.

02:09:08.900 I'm sorry, but you're being occupied in New York.

02:09:12.040 I think that the right and the left, it's happening on the right, too.

02:09:17.500 They want this political coercion.

02:09:19.040 Go after them because they're them as opposed to because they've done something illegal,

02:09:23.100 although you can find any show me.

02:09:25.100 Find me the man.

02:09:25.680 I'll show you the crime.

02:09:26.420 But this is the fight.

02:09:28.880 To get back to the overarching theme of OMG and my future is that the people, the First

02:09:35.300 Amendment is so important in this country, showing people what's happening.

02:09:38.900 But I think increasingly, people just want political coercion.

02:09:42.240 They want to put, you know, here's a good way of saying this, right?

02:09:46.060 If I go to rural Michigan and I say, how many of you people want AOC in jail?

02:09:52.640 The majority, I want her in jail.

02:09:54.060 And if I go to Queens, New York, and I say, how many of you people want, you know, James

02:09:59.540 O'Keefe in jail?

02:10:00.700 The majority want people in jail.

02:10:01.840 So everyone wants to jail each other.

02:10:04.160 What's the solution to that?

02:10:06.620 I think that the cultural divide and the divide of worldviews has grown too great for there to

02:10:10.680 be a remedy.

02:10:11.460 We're beyond the event horizon.

02:10:13.460 Now they're starting to seize property and-

02:10:16.000 Arrest lawyers.

02:10:17.040 You work for Trump, you will be indicted.

02:10:20.040 And that might be to say, if you work with James O'Keefe, you might be indicted.

02:10:25.500 And then it becomes, I mean, where is this headed?

02:10:29.280 I mean, I'm not in the prediction business, but I'm curious, Tim, how do you solve that?

02:10:34.780 There needs to be a detente in this country.

02:10:36.540 I think if you look at the positions of the left, they are unreasonable.

02:10:42.300 They are psychotic, destructive, and evil.

02:10:44.760 The right has consistently tried being reasonable, not always, but they keep trying to play this

02:10:49.500 slow down their Democrats.

02:10:51.220 I think our best course of action is if Trump gets elected, the first thing before anyone

02:10:57.160 thinks of anything else is let's vote for Trump and cross our fingers that he begins

02:11:00.280 firing people, brings in an AG.

02:11:02.460 We get some convictions and arrests.

02:11:04.200 How does Trump trust anybody around him?

02:11:07.780 I'm sure he doesn't.

02:11:08.940 When he goes to the White House.

02:11:09.980 But until we say anything else, we have an opportunity with Trump leading in the polls,

02:11:14.640 with major cultural victories, with the failures of Bud Light target, wokeness failing.

02:11:19.740 Even BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street are getting scared of saying ESG now because

02:11:23.920 the cultural tides are shifting.

02:11:25.900 What we're seeing here with these actions taken by Democrats in New York is panic, fear,

02:11:30.060 and desperation.

02:11:30.500 They couldn't stop Trump, so they're resorting to illegal and unconstitutional tactics, which

02:11:35.500 I think is actually going to destroy their efforts, thrashing about violently.

02:11:41.280 You know, you go to a crowd of people and start screaming at the top of your lungs, the

02:11:44.520 end is nigh, the end is nigh, no one's going to listen to you, even if the end is nigh.

02:11:47.340 All you do is destroy your credibility.

02:11:48.720 So right now, it is worrying, and there are grains of sand in the Civil War heap, but

02:11:53.380 I think right now, we are looking at a-

02:11:56.820 When you say grains of sand in the Civil War, what do you mean?

02:11:59.300 So, you know, the old question, how many grains of sand make a heap, right?

02:12:02.980 And so if you take a grain of sand and drop it on the table, do you have a heap of sand?

02:12:05.460 Of course not.

02:12:06.300 Two grains of sand?

02:12:07.040 Of course not.

02:12:08.080 At what point does that sand become what you would describe as a heap?

02:12:10.840 We don't really know.

02:12:11.820 It's a nebulous number.

02:12:12.900 I don't think there's going to be-

02:12:14.200 Sorry, go ahead, finish.

02:12:14.860 Each grain of sand is something happening.

02:12:17.720 We keep adding these things to the mix.

02:12:19.620 Someone got shot in the street.

02:12:20.800 Someone tried to burn down the White House.

02:12:22.360 Someone, you know-

02:12:23.180 Oh, I see, I see.

02:12:23.900 I see what you're saying.

02:12:24.540 And then eventually, you have all of these things piled up when we say, that's a Civil

02:12:27.160 War.

02:12:27.180 Having been through this particular kind of psychological carnage, having been sued 30 times

02:12:32.660 and raided and arrested, federal jail and arraigned, I can tell you that I don't know,

02:12:39.040 and I'm speaking a lot for your audience because you've got some smart people watching.

02:12:42.320 I don't know how you solve it.

02:12:43.660 Trump's a billionaire, or at least close to it, and his legal bills are, I don't know

02:12:47.940 what they're, 60 million, 100 million.

02:12:49.800 Lawyers, I mean, what I've learned, lawyers are becoming millionaires off of the backs

02:12:55.420 of absolute injustice and tragedy.

02:12:57.900 And this sort of thing, as the administrative state grows, Tim, and they just have a bunch

02:13:01.940 of regulators just going after everyone, lawyers are going to become millionaires.

02:13:05.500 And again, it goes back to that money.

02:13:06.820 Give me that money.

02:13:07.440 I want that money.

02:13:08.420 These are not bad people.

02:13:09.540 These are lawyers billing $600,000, $800,000 an hour.

02:13:13.440 It's one of the great ironies of my life is I took a black car to go to the meeting.

02:13:16.560 These guys take private jets to represent me, to represent me.

02:13:20.400 So I don't know how we solve for the legal issue.

02:13:24.140 I don't think it's going to be done politically.

02:13:26.280 I think it has to be done socially, economically, culturally.

02:13:29.480 I think people need to know about, um, uh, what's the thing when you go, when you go

02:13:34.360 to court, when you're a jury, uh, you get to have, you get to have jury nullification.

02:13:38.480 I think a lot of people need to understand what that is.

02:13:40.380 I think, uh, these juries in New York do, they don't care.

02:13:43.280 I think, I don't think voting, I don't think voting is going to get us out of here.

02:13:46.420 I think we need something else.

02:13:47.860 I think we need decentralization.

02:13:49.480 That's why the Gates, that's why the Gates McCarthy thing.

02:13:51.160 It's like, I don't even, it's like, we need a, a, a, a journalistic, the solution is

02:13:56.920 citizen journalism, decentralization, a lot of small, instead of just one sword, instead

02:14:02.540 of one head coming out, it should, it should be paper cuts.

02:14:06.100 You're missing the, you're missing the point.

02:14:07.460 The only reason Trump is winning right now is because of everything you're describing

02:14:10.140 because of the cultural victories, because of the media, because of the journalism, more

02:14:13.800 and more people are waking up and the desperation from New York.

02:14:18.900 It's freaking people out trying to seize Trump's properties.

02:14:22.580 Well, it's freaking half of the people out, but actually the majority of New Yorkers.

02:14:26.780 Yes.

02:14:27.380 In a, in an urban, urban, urban urban areas.

02:14:31.140 I'm in Washington DC hanging out with what is a dense liberal extremely.

02:14:36.100 And I'm hearing regular people saying it's freaking them out.

02:14:38.460 Really?

02:14:38.960 Yeah, absolutely.

02:14:39.940 Uh, uh, I had a guy the other last week, I've, I mentioned this.

02:14:43.060 He said he hates Trump, but they should not be doing what they're doing to him.

02:14:45.840 It's freaking them out.

02:14:46.480 I think this is stress on regular people who don't want conflict and it's going to cause

02:14:51.340 them to bow out from voting for Democrats and just back away, which gives Trump an edge.

02:14:55.040 But what I'm saying is all of the cultural victories we have, the founding fathers, what

02:14:59.600 did they do for 10 years before the revolution?

02:15:01.240 They were leafleting, they were pamphleting, they were writing books, they were sharing ideas.

02:15:04.700 It's leading to a cultural shift, which then brings in a Donald Trump whom is not going

02:15:10.600 to be perfect.

02:15:11.440 Maybe it doesn't get everything we need done, but I do think that turns things around a little

02:15:15.120 bit on the political side.

02:15:16.700 This is where if we start getting, if, if the, if the, if the corporate media fails and

02:15:22.380 they're failing, they're losing audience and they're, they're fizzling out in a lot of ways.

02:15:26.860 They're, they're making, how do you put the toothpaste back in the tube with all these

02:15:29.900 indictments and attorney generals?

02:15:31.860 Trump gets elected.

02:15:32.980 He brings on an AG.

02:15:33.960 We get special prosecutors and investigations.

02:15:36.340 I see.

02:15:37.020 We start getting indictments for the lies and manipulations.

02:15:40.100 Constitutional lawyers in the Supreme Court shut down immediately what New York is doing.

02:15:44.180 Sanctures, censures, disbars these people.

02:15:46.280 And then we start bringing in new people.

02:15:47.580 That's a long, long process.

02:15:49.240 But I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

02:15:51.480 Those are political, those are political solutions, which are part of it.

02:15:54.620 But are only possible because we are shifting culture.

02:15:57.160 So we will, we must always continue the cultural battles, building a parallel economy, spreading

02:16:03.120 the message and creating, distributing the ideas among people of what is right and what

02:16:08.060 should be.

02:16:08.560 And it results in the evil losing cultural authority.

02:16:11.780 And then politics comes after that.

02:16:14.000 But with that being said, we have a lot more to talk about later tonight in Miami at the

02:16:17.920 event where James will be joining us.

02:16:19.680 So good conversation.

02:16:21.280 I think we'll wrap it up here as we're, we're getting a little late.

02:16:23.140 Did you, I don't have any final thoughts or do you want to shout anything out?

02:16:25.460 I mean, yeah, my, my, um, my plug is for O'Keefe Academy.

02:16:30.160 Masterclasses are live on our website.

02:16:31.520 You can learn how to be a citizen journalist.

02:16:32.840 And next week we have a webinar, a paid webinar.

02:16:35.680 We're going to start teaching people much like Luke has done in his career.

02:16:39.320 We do different things, but we're both citizen journalists.

02:16:41.880 I want to teach and educate and empower people to do the things that I've done, um, at OMG.

02:16:47.740 So we're going to be doing that next week.

02:16:49.440 And I look forward to tonight, Tim, what, what is exactly the theme of tonight?

02:16:52.700 What are we talking about?

02:16:53.700 We'll, we'll find out.

02:16:54.880 I mean, it was, it's Timcast IRL live on stage.

02:16:57.540 Just live on stage.

02:16:58.280 Who's there?

02:16:59.020 So it's going to be, uh, on, on stage, uh, predominantly for the main event will be, uh,

02:17:03.520 us three plus Patrick, Matt, David and Matt Gaetz.

02:17:05.780 Any themes, any particular issues?

02:17:07.640 I think considering what Matt Gaetz has just pulled off in Congress, which is historic,

02:17:12.300 the first speaker to be removed and the ongoing battle.

02:17:15.080 I think that'll be a large portion of the conversation.

02:17:17.560 Nothing is planned.

02:17:18.440 So we'll just have a conversation.

02:17:19.960 We'll see where it goes.

02:17:20.640 Like we don't, it's good.

02:17:21.240 Like we normally do for IRL.

02:17:22.360 But, uh, maybe we could collaborate on, uh, helping teach people citizen journalism.

02:17:26.100 I heard that you gave out press badges at some point to, to your, uh.

02:17:30.060 People who sign up for, uh, Change Media University get press passes as well.

02:17:34.520 I would like to collaborate with you.

02:17:35.780 We can work in many different ways.

02:17:36.940 What's the website for your, uh?

02:17:38.600 O'KeefeMediaGroup.com.

02:17:41.740 Masterclasses are live.

02:17:42.700 Next week is our first webinar.

02:17:43.980 And we're going to be building out a, basically a journalism school for what, what I do.

02:17:48.280 Absolutely.

02:17:48.900 Uh, and, uh, let's, let's talk more about that.

02:17:51.220 Cause I think that's something that I did before.

02:17:52.980 And I think we should, we should do it as well.

02:17:54.640 I personally do not think one man will save you.

02:17:57.140 I think we need a decentralized effort.

02:17:58.760 That's why I also started Change Media University, teaching people how to do everything that I'm

02:18:04.480 doing, media, marketing, videos, editing, getting into events, confronting politicians,

02:18:09.460 30 plus videos, courses, homework, you name it.

02:18:12.200 We got it.

02:18:13.080 Uh, Change Media University is available for members of LukeUnfiltered.com.

02:18:17.120 We're also doing a members only meetup this Sunday, 4 p.m.

02:18:20.920 for members of LukeUnfiltered.com.

02:18:22.840 That's the main way to support me.

02:18:24.220 Main way to talk to me, get into a forum and work with me one-on-one.

02:18:29.060 LukeUnfiltered.com.

02:18:29.920 See you there.

02:18:30.520 All right, everybody.

02:18:31.600 Thanks for hanging out.

02:18:32.520 James, thanks for coming.

02:18:33.340 This has been an awesome conversation.

02:18:35.000 And, uh, tonight's going to be wild.

02:18:36.340 Next up, we have got our elite members meetup.

02:18:38.620 And then, uh, 6 p.m., the show begins in Miami.

02:18:42.880 It's going to be live on TimCast.com.

02:18:45.380 Members only.

02:18:46.480 Uh, and there's a variety of reasons we do it.

02:18:48.540 Full transparency.

02:18:49.480 We obviously want more members because members are how we operate, how we do the whole

02:18:54.200 thing.

02:18:54.640 We can't, you know, just do everything for free all the time.

02:18:57.000 But there's a blend of the ad model and then the membership model.

02:18:59.920 And, you know, initially we wanted to do it just straight live.

02:19:02.720 There's also the concern that there could be saboteurs and extremists, which could disrupt

02:19:06.700 and actually put an end to the show.

02:19:08.240 So we were like, let's just, we're going to take it to TimCast.com.

02:19:11.840 And so that'll be on the front page, probably around 6 or 7 p.m.

02:19:15.300 Stay tuned for that.

02:19:16.400 Thanks for hanging out.

02:19:17.100 And we'll see you all then.

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - October 06, 2023

The Culture War #32 - Rise And Fall Of Project Veritas w⧸James O'Keefe & Luke Rudkowski

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