The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #37 - MAGA Communism VS Classical Liberalism w⧸Haz Al-din & Trevor Loudon

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00:00:57.060 Welcome to the First Culture War on Tenet Media on YouTube.

00:01:02.380 Thanks so much, everybody, for hanging out. We're going to have a fun one today.

00:01:04.980 We're hanging out with Haz Aldean and Trevor Loudon. I'm pronouncing that correct?

00:01:08.480 Yep. Trevor Loudon.

00:01:09.080 That's correct.

00:01:09.560 And we're going to be talking about, I guess, MAGA communism and classical liberalism.

00:01:14.420 So this should be very fun. Haz, do you want to introduce yourself?

00:01:17.420 My name is Haz Aldean.

00:01:19.220 I consider myself a comedian, a geopolitical analyst, and a political philosopher.

00:01:25.200 And I technically coined the term MAGA communism, although it started as a kind of meme within my community.

00:01:32.540 I run a show called The Infrared Show, which you can find on YouTube.

00:01:36.800 And, you know, I'm here to present and, I think, give a proper introduction to what MAGA communism is all about.

00:01:46.160 All right. Well, it should be really interesting, MAGA communism.

00:01:49.320 And I think you also have a thread that we'll get into about how Marxism is not woke.

00:01:53.920 Right, yes. I also plan on releasing a book soon, which is going to be kind of a complete overview of my philosophical foundation for my views, including that thread that you mentioned.

00:02:08.440 And you work with Jackson Hinkle?

00:02:11.800 Yes, yes. I work very closely with Jackson offline, coordinating and also discussing these ideas and so on.

00:02:20.860 And so, yeah, I would consider Jackson's views as the same as mine.

00:02:26.140 Right on. Cool. It should be fun. Trevor, would you like to introduce yourself?

00:02:29.340 Yeah, look, my name is Trevor Loudon. I'm a New Zealander, but I live in the United States.

00:02:35.220 My specialty is really exposing and exploring communism.

00:02:39.720 I've written several books.

00:02:41.500 You know, I focus a lot on the Marxist influence inside the Democratic Party, inside the government, inside the social movements.

00:02:52.480 And I have a blog, Trevor Loudon.com and a website, keywiki.org, which has got 160,000 files of leftists, communists, socialists, radicals from all sorts of areas.

00:03:09.640 And so I consider myself, I would have started out as pretty much a classic liberal, but I have a very strong social conservative bent and a very strong national security focus.

00:03:23.580 Well, right on. Let's just, we'll get started then.

00:03:27.440 What is MAGA communism?

00:03:30.200 So MAGA communism began as a meme and the origins are actually interesting.

00:03:34.260 So around a few months earlier last year, so on August 2022, there was this big meme going around.

00:03:43.140 I don't know if you heard about it, the Dark Brandon meme.

00:03:45.800 Yeah, yeah.

00:03:46.200 Remember that? And it's this kind of, we took it as a kind of like, this is an example of some neo-fascism,

00:03:53.660 because we regarded the support for the neo-Nazis in Ukraine by the Democrats, the increasing crackdown on classical liberties as an example of not the only conduit,

00:04:09.820 but a significant avenue for the growth of fascism in the United States.

00:04:15.160 So the Dark Brandon meme, we saw it as an acknowledgement of that.

00:04:18.060 So we created this counter meme. It wasn't like that intentional, but it was spontaneous called,

00:04:24.420 well, if you're going to have your Dark Brandon, we're going to have our MAGA communism as like a counter, right?

00:04:30.680 Is it seriously meant to convey communist ideals?

00:04:35.040 Yes. I think one of the reasons I don't focus too much on the, and it's confused a lot of people,

00:04:39.820 the meme aspect of it is because for me, I don't actually see a clear distinction between meme and something serious.

00:04:50.060 I think that actually comedy and ironies and things like this convey and express truths more profoundly and correctly

00:04:59.460 than something kind of stoically formulated in a dry kind of purely formally consistent way.

00:05:10.420 So let's just start here then. I guess when I hear MAGA communism, it sounds like you're saying you're voting for Donald Trump

00:05:16.020 and you want a communist system of governance or social order.

00:05:20.700 No, no. MAGA communism has little to do with the person of Donald Trump besides him as a kind of mascot.

00:05:28.960 We see Trump as a meme basically, but the truth of MAGA communism is that we believe that 2016 for the first time in decades

00:05:38.900 in the history of the United States introduced real political distinction and the Schmittian sense of enmity

00:05:46.740 because for decades, the Democrats and Republicans, that was not really a political distinction.

00:05:53.240 Agreed.

00:05:53.420 It was a distinction on the basis of a mutual recognition of the fulfillment of the same interest. 0.95

00:06:00.360 And miraculously, somehow, this kind of clown, Donald Trump, I mean, let's remember this guy's from The Apprentice. 0.96

00:06:07.420 I mean, it was very funny he got elected, let's be honest. 0.99

00:06:11.220 He kind of drove these two camps insane.

00:06:14.520 You see the same George W. Bush Republicans and the good old Democrats, they suddenly are united in the face of this threat.

00:06:23.460 And typically the leftist characterization of the MAGA movement has been this is the ground of a neo-fascism.

00:06:30.600 To me, I don't see MAGA as inherently fascist.

00:06:35.240 I don't see it as inherently communist.

00:06:37.060 I don't see it as inherent.

00:06:38.320 It's just American politics, but articulated in a grassroots and non-institutionalized form.

00:06:47.800 So, of course, anti-communist ideas prevail among MAGA.

00:06:50.700 Of course, many other GOP and Democrat conceptions prevail among MAGA.

00:06:56.580 But the key thing is that the foundation of these ideas is no longer based in the hegemonic institutions.

00:07:02.800 It's authentically based in what these people actually believe.

00:07:06.760 And therefore, it is a fertile ground for the propagation of ideas, which for a long time could not be propagated because of an institutional barrier.

00:07:16.980 So then what is it?

00:07:17.840 America first communism?

00:07:18.980 Well, I'll put it this way.

00:07:22.400 Marxism-Leninism, and this is what the origin of communism with a capital C in modern times is, right?

00:07:29.700 We can go into the history, but basically everyone was a social democrat or called themselves a socialist before the October Revolution of 1917, which reintroduced the term communism and repopularized it.

00:07:41.900 And it was Stalin who canonized this into an ideology called Marxism-Leninism.

00:07:48.700 And if you read Stalin's foundations of Leninism, he says the key contribution that Lenin introduces for Marxism is the national question.

00:07:57.960 So you see, with socialism in one country, which is kind of Stalin's interpretation of the construction of socialism, Marxism-Leninism is already, in the American context, MAGA.

00:08:12.560 It's already America first, when applied to the American context. 0.71

00:08:16.480 The reason there's been a confusion about this among leftists who call themselves communists is because they are influenced by the Trotskyist strain or the kind of CIA-funded, compatible left, as they say, type of Marxism.

00:08:33.540 But Marxism-Leninism, foundationally, is patriotic and national in form.

00:08:40.340 Well, let me throw it to you, Trevor.

00:08:42.000 I mean, you were talking about communist influences in the Democratic Party and things like this.

00:08:47.500 So how would you respond?

00:08:49.040 What's your view of communism?

00:08:50.820 Well, my view of communism, see, as Haz says, you know, what I see MAGA communism as is basically an Americanized form of Duganism.

00:09:01.220 So this is a movement.

00:09:05.200 See, there are two strands in modern American communism.

00:09:09.020 There's what I would call a feminine strand, which is wokeism, which is, you know, like, let's just accept everybody.

00:09:18.000 Let's just break down the barriers.

00:09:20.260 Major emphasis on anti-racism, you know, transgenderism, all these isms. 1.00

00:09:27.840 These all come out of Marxism.

00:09:29.360 But it is the feminine side.

00:09:32.040 And Haz is right.

00:09:32.960 There's a big Trotskyist influence there.

00:09:36.100 Whereas what we're talking about here is more the masculine side of communism.

00:09:40.340 This is Stalinism, you know, Stakhanovite. 0.57

00:09:44.820 I can never say the word Stakhanovite communism.

00:09:47.860 This is a masculine nationalist form of communism, which overlaps to some degree with fascism.

00:09:56.440 Dugan was basically trying to unite almost the right wing of communism with the left wing of fascism.

00:10:04.980 So what I'm seeing here in this Margaret communist movement is something that draws on Stalinism, uses the national question.

00:10:15.980 And national question means that the old original Marxism was, you know, you use the class struggle.

00:10:23.780 You know, the workers will rise up and take the control of the means of production from the bosses.

00:10:28.960 The nationalities question or the national question is where you find minority populations or racial minorities or religious minorities and you foster a sense of revolution amongst them.

00:10:45.580 And that will be patriotic.

00:10:48.200 They will play on, you know, they use the, like in Ireland, they would use the patriotism of the Catholics against the Protestants. 0.51

00:10:57.540 And, you know, the Stalinists for a long time tried to create a black republic in the south of America by using the sort of nationalist sense amongst the black population.

00:11:10.360 So they're doing that with Native Americans now with La Raza, this kind of thing.

00:11:16.900 So what I see here, Margaret communism to me is an amalgamation of traditional fascism and communism using nationalism and a strong masculine emphasis, 0.54

00:11:31.420 which appeals to the young guys who are just sick of the feminine pansy wokeism. 1.00

00:11:36.920 Yeah.

00:11:37.820 But both wokeism and market communism come out of the same route.

00:11:43.220 All right.

00:11:43.380 There's a lot of isms here and a lot of proper names and nouns.

00:11:46.220 So let's start from the beginning.

00:11:47.460 Haas, do you think that the public, the workers should own the means of production?

00:11:53.720 How do we begin?

00:11:54.460 Yes, I believe in sovereign ownership of the means of production.

00:11:58.000 So you mean like the state controls it or what?

00:12:00.380 Of course.

00:12:01.120 Yes.

00:12:02.020 And your view is good, sir?

00:12:04.040 I think the state should be minimally involved in the economy.

00:12:09.680 The only real role of the state is in the judicial system and in national defence.

00:12:18.080 So no, I absolutely oppose state ownership of assets.

00:12:23.300 I don't like public ownership of assets.

00:12:25.500 And that would be, I think, the defining difference between me and Haas is that he sees the role of a strong state, a strong, vigorous state that directs production.

00:12:37.320 I see the exact opposite.

00:12:38.920 The individual, the local should direct production and own property.

00:12:44.820 Well, I actually believe sovereign ownership of the means of production precludes two things.

00:12:53.160 One, what Lenin calls and what Marx actually originated in his 18th Brumaire is the smashing of the state machinery.

00:13:04.020 That we cannot simply lay hold of the ready-made state that exists, the insane bureaucracy that corresponds.

00:13:11.380 And Marx actually talked about this to the capitalist society.

00:13:14.780 But the state must be remade anew, simplified, made efficient, and to an extent, yes, minimalized.

00:13:23.000 Because it is the aspiration of communism to basically relegate the state to its bare necessities and for the eventual dissolution of...

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00:14:58.640 The state, obviously, and into free association.

00:15:05.200 You're saying absolute idealistic communism is people all just agreeing and working together or something?

00:15:11.140 No, no.

00:15:12.360 There is still a centralized oversight of production, but it's what Frederick Engels calls the administration of things and not people.

00:15:20.240 So you have a centralized oversight of production, but the necessity of the forceful suppression of opposition, for example, disappears.

00:15:32.000 And this is projected to be at the time when the material foundation of the state as an organ of class dictatorship withers away.

00:15:41.020 Now, many people doubt that this is possible, and it's somewhat of a theoretical and philosophical question.

00:15:47.080 But as relevant now, I don't want the current American government to own more.

00:15:52.580 I don't want the current American state to control more.

00:15:56.140 What I want is a completely remade state.

00:15:59.740 A state fashioned from the ground up based on, yes, local forms of power, amalgamated and centralized to authentically represent the interests of the overwhelming majority.

00:16:13.220 And this is where it may surprise you.

00:16:16.340 It is a goal for the state to be minimally involved in production.

00:16:20.700 Sovereign ownership of the means of production just means that foreigners, that private interests cannot gobble up the resources and land of the country.

00:16:30.360 But as to how who manages that land and who sees to its production, this is something, ideally speaking, should be as local as possible.

00:16:42.240 This is China's kind of household responsibility system, which did delegate production down to the lowest level, the family level.

00:16:50.600 And I think this is true to the aspiration of communism.

00:16:55.360 Let's let's we'll start with a very simple question.

00:16:58.540 What does means of production mean?

00:17:01.200 The means of production basically refer to the fundamental basis and conditions for the production of things, only material things.

00:17:14.640 What about intellectual property?

00:17:16.580 There's no such thing in the Marxist view.

00:17:19.340 Basically, I view personally, intellectual property is a scam, basically, even in terms of classical liberal values.

00:17:29.120 I think it's a transgression of I think it's completely illegitimate intellectual property.

00:17:34.660 Yes.

00:17:35.020 So what about so what's the incentive then for invention if you can't own what you've invented?

00:17:41.320 Well, like hide the secrets and make sure no one ever finds out how you did it.

00:17:44.520 I believe credit can be given to people and notoriety and fame and do glory can be given to inventors and creative geniuses.

00:17:56.740 But one of the things I dislike about intellectual property is that one's product should be good on the merits.

00:18:04.260 If someone can simply replicate your product, I don't think this steals anything from you.

00:18:10.080 I think they're just I mean, let's try this.

00:18:12.340 If if it was if it was legal within the current system for people to take all of my content that I produce and immediately re upload whatever they wanted, I would cease to exist overnight.

00:18:23.340 Right. So, for instance, my morning show, the Tim Bull Daily Show, I produce four segments per day and they're not allowed to be taken.

00:18:33.920 Right. It's my opinion, my commentary.

00:18:35.940 There is fair use arguments.

00:18:37.240 So there's a limit to people are allowed to take it, play the video and talk over it because it's not a replication of the work.

00:18:42.620 It's something different.

00:18:43.160 But if there was no intellectual property controls, as soon as I uploaded the video, 70 other channels would upload the exact same thing.

00:18:50.360 It would decentralize my ability to generate ad revenue, attention and make money.

00:18:53.860 And I'd stop doing it instantly.

00:18:55.020 So for content creators, it is a necessity right now.

00:18:58.300 I'm not going to deny that.

00:18:59.660 But I think with two things, the advances of technology and a transformation of the financial system.

00:19:05.420 See, one of the reasons that content creators rely on intellectual property is they need it to generate revenue.

00:19:11.740 The means of generating revenue for someone who's uploading your content to their channel and your channel seem to be the same.

00:19:17.440 Right. But with, for example, innovations in the sphere of software technologies like blockchains, there are ways to verify and authenticate the original source of.

00:19:30.260 But what does that mean? I mean, if I can't control where, how, how the revenue generation for a piece of content, it doesn't matter if people know it's mine.

00:19:40.160 I think, I think it can matter because if we, for example, entering into the fourth industrial revolution in a kind of post commodity money economy,

00:19:49.860 your acquisition of wealth could very well be tied to your signature, your blockchain signature, rather than simply some kind of exchange of like views for dollars.

00:20:04.300 So you're, you're, you're saying that I would, I, that, that signature is the, is intellectual property.

00:20:09.460 If so, so no matter where the content is posted, the revenue comes to me.

00:20:13.440 Well, I wouldn't say it's intellectual property because there's nothing preventing someone for just like an NFT, for example,

00:20:19.980 there's nothing preventing someone for like downloading the JPEG and doing whatever they want with it.

00:20:25.360 What they can't do is fake the signature.

00:20:28.080 But what does, what, what does that do for the person who made it?

00:20:31.080 It gives, it, it gives you a signature. It, it confirms that it's yours, that this is the original thing.

00:20:36.040 But how does it, how does it buy my milk? Right? Milk, bread, and eggs.

00:20:38.580 Like, are you saying, look, would the state just give me free food? Is everyone going to get free food or?

00:20:42.500 Sure. No, by the way, I don't, to be clear, the version of the communist system of the 20th century with rations and with standardization of basically what everyone gets based on what they do,

00:20:57.700 that was a requirement for the goals of those circumstances, which was the immediate modernization of the productive forces from a backward agrarian and feudal economy.

00:21:08.840 In a dynamic information-based economy and increasingly decentralized consumer economy, for example,

00:21:16.880 it's much more similar to China where there, there isn't this kind of uniform compensation for what you do.

00:21:23.520 It's, it is measured based on some, so for example, it can be profit, for example, is a form of the measurability of how successful you are.

00:21:33.560 But I think, so let's go back to that point then, specifically on the, on the intellectual property question.

00:21:37.800 If I put up a video that takes hours of research and I record a live, you know, 30 minutes,

00:21:44.220 and then as soon as it uploads, a hundred other people re-upload it to their, their accounts, you're like, how do I profit from that?

00:21:51.100 Are you saying that because the content is verifiably mine, any revenue generated from anyone else just comes to me?

00:21:56.180 You have to ask the question, when we're entering into this new type of information economy, it's currently outdated how it works.

00:22:06.180 We get revenue in dollars for something, a form of capital that I think is more, worth more than, than money, right?

00:22:16.000 Basically, I think clout is more valuable than money today.

00:22:19.200 I don't know if you agree.

00:22:20.480 So, so.

00:22:21.120 But it is, but how do you eat, right?

00:22:22.560 You need money to buy food.

00:22:23.920 Yeah, that would be a question of a, I mean, we, again, we're, we, we want to innovate everything.

00:22:29.560 We're, we're basically talking about a fourth industrial revolution.

00:22:33.500 So we must also think about how to innovate the entire financial system, how money works, how currency works, and so on and so on.

00:22:40.720 And I, yes, I do think that would be connected with, uh, things like blockchain technologies.

00:22:46.340 Well, I, I, I, I'm just not, I don't, I'm not sure I understand, right?

00:22:50.740 If you don't believe in intellectual property.

00:22:52.460 Yeah.

00:22:52.940 A signature that, uh, I, I guess I'm trying to want, how would I make money?

00:22:59.480 I don't think you've answered it.

00:23:00.300 If, how do I make money in a situation where I don't own the content I produce?

00:23:04.200 I think, I think how, how it would work is that if you have an enterprise, and by the way, enterprise is not a dirty word.

00:23:09.460 There was Soviet enterprises, you will be a compensated with resources necessary for what you need to do based on your performance.

00:23:18.380 So, so resources.

00:23:20.180 So if, if, if, if you're successful at reaching people based on your content, then you will be compensated with some kind of, uh, you can call it money.

00:23:29.480 You could call it, uh, Marx theorized about labor vouchers.

00:23:33.160 You can talk about, uh, tokens.

00:23:34.620 Labor vouchers is effectively currency with restricted currency.

00:23:38.320 Yeah, you can, you, it can be called whatever, but yes, effectively you can be compensated with some kind of means of, uh, acquiring more based on what you put in.

00:23:49.420 Money.

00:23:50.440 Sure, sure.

00:23:51.180 You can call it that.

00:23:51.920 I think the, the one.

00:23:52.640 So then if I, if, if, if the signature only applies to me personally, that means I own that signature and have ownership of the content that I produce.

00:24:01.400 Because if it's reposted anywhere, but it all reverts to my signature and compensates me, that means I own the intellectual property.

00:24:08.320 Right.

00:24:08.540 But this is a form of effective ownership.

00:24:10.800 It's not a form of ownership enforced by a third party.

00:24:13.580 It's a form of ownership that is self-evident in the product.

00:24:16.620 So for example, my, I own my personality.

00:24:19.340 I don't need to have the government say, this is Haas's personality.

00:24:23.680 No one else can have it as an original person.

00:24:26.780 It's a form of effective.

00:24:28.580 What if, what if someone takes the content, uh, inverts the colors, generating a separate key and then directs the key to themselves to generate revenue?

00:24:38.220 Would there, would there be an adjudicating force?

00:24:40.920 I think, I think, unfortunately, uh, I do believe in a harshness of reality where if this is what people prefer and they like it better, you have to step up your game.

00:24:50.720 Um, you know, so, so, right.

00:24:52.840 So the issue is in, in a reality where someone can spoof a key or alter the content in such a way that it's not transformative, doesn't fall under fair use.

00:25:02.160 Like they're literally just trying to repurpose the existing content.

00:25:05.580 Let's just put it this way.

00:25:06.620 They find a way to bypass the blockchain signature by like, I don't know, uh, dropping the pitch by a half step or altering the colors.

00:25:14.240 And then they start getting the money from it.

00:25:16.080 I cease to exist overnight.

00:25:17.240 This content doesn't happen.

00:25:18.040 Again, uh, perhaps under the current circumstances, that's the case for all content creators.

00:25:24.600 But I think we should be a little more, uh, appreciative of the possibility that in the future, things will not work the same way as they do now.

00:25:33.640 Trevor, do you want to jump in on this communism?

00:25:35.860 Well, I think this is the main mistake of Marxism.

00:25:38.520 They assume that human consciousness is shaped by the material environment.

00:25:43.280 So if we can change the material environment, if we can have new technology, human behavior is going to change.

00:25:51.440 Human incentives are going to change.

00:25:53.500 I think that's a complete fallacy.

00:25:55.980 You know, intellectual property is what drove the industrial revolution.

00:26:00.900 It wasn't the cotton gin.

00:26:02.720 It wasn't the steam engine.

00:26:04.220 It was patents.

00:26:05.220 It was the banking system.

00:26:07.580 It was the, it was the derivatives, the stock market, that all these things that were driven by intellectual property, property rights that were not just, you know, a book or a machine or a, or a forest or whatever.

00:26:24.660 They were actually intellectual property.

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00:27:27.640 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:27:32.060 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

00:27:39.220 We care about you.

00:27:41.320 Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

00:27:44.340 Weird.

00:27:45.240 I don't remember saying that part.

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00:27:52.860 Did I mention that we care?

00:27:56.460 So in the future, human nature is not going to change.

00:28:02.980 Human nature has been human nature forever.

00:28:06.220 Humans respond to personal incentive.

00:28:08.780 That's how we're programmed to be.

00:28:12.080 And the problem is whenever that the communists will say, well, we're going to change the material form of existence and that's going to change the nature of man.

00:28:21.760 And we're going to live.

00:28:23.100 We can have a cooperative environment.

00:28:24.800 We can have incentives that aren't directly monetary.

00:28:28.420 All this kind of thing.

00:28:29.620 It's all untrue.

00:28:31.080 Nothing will change about human nature.

00:28:35.260 Nothing at all.

00:28:36.560 I agree.

00:28:36.760 So you design a system of liberty where human nature can blossom, where people can build their own farm.

00:28:45.280 They can build their own business.

00:28:46.720 They can build their own podcast.

00:28:49.200 It's theirs.

00:28:50.460 They control it.

00:28:51.680 See, if you have some, as Haz was talking about, you'll be compensated if your stuff is good.

00:28:59.560 Well, who decides that?

00:29:01.820 It's going to be a collective that decides that.

00:29:05.300 Back in the Soviet Union under Stalin, they had the writers' collective.

00:29:10.920 And there were certain writers who were favored by the Soviet state that lived quite comfortably.

00:29:16.940 They got royalties from their poetry.

00:29:19.320 They got royalties from their plays.

00:29:22.000 But only if you conformed to the state.

00:29:26.260 If you were a dissident in any way, you either risked jail or you lost your position.

00:29:33.640 You lost your privileged position.

00:29:35.980 So this is the beauty of freedom.

00:29:38.060 You can come out with an idea or a product and the state cannot interfere with you.

00:29:45.480 But if you have any form of collectivism where people can decide

00:29:50.320 what you do, how you think, whether your product or service is valuable,

00:29:56.480 whether your ideas are false or true,

00:29:59.260 if other people can decide that other than your customers,

00:30:03.020 it is only going to be those who curry favor with the establishment or the existing social order that are going to prosper. 0.98

00:30:14.720 Freedom gives people the freedom to be stupid, to be creative, to have any idea they want. 0.97

00:30:22.600 And the market determines whether that idea is good or not. 0.99

00:30:27.060 Any form of collectivism destroys that.

00:30:31.200 And that is the engine of human progress and the engine of human creativity.

00:30:35.980 So I want to say three things.

00:30:40.120 The first thing is that I agree that human freedom should be maximalized to the furthest extent,

00:30:48.340 which is why I oppose intellectual property.

00:30:51.420 Intellectual property requires the state to enforce property rather than an effective form of property.

00:30:57.520 And I think this is why even many free market libertarians believe in open source,

00:31:02.240 because intellectual property requires in a feudal-like way some kind of political authority to enforce the economic reality.

00:31:11.440 Whereas the ideal for a free market capitalist is that the economy works on its merits.

00:31:17.220 It works by itself.

00:31:18.540 It doesn't require third-party intervention to uphold.

00:31:21.760 Even in the enforcement of property rights like land, some libertarians go as far as to say,

00:31:27.440 you know, I should be able to have a nuclear silo in my backyard to protect my sovereign ownership of land.

00:31:33.340 So you don't need this decentralized state to enforce your property according to that ideal.

00:31:38.460 It works just by itself.

00:31:41.000 The second thing I would like to say is I disagree with the view that some kind of centralized legislative or political body

00:31:50.080 would have to determine exactly how much someone is compensated for.

00:31:54.560 And I think, basically, it's simple.

00:31:58.240 AI today has the ability to kind of calculate based on algorithms you can put in.

00:32:05.140 So a human does that, though?

00:32:06.960 Right.

00:32:07.420 But, yes, of course, the system is designed by a human,

00:32:10.840 but the system can also work by itself, that you are rewarded for how much output you produce, basically.

00:32:17.980 So this can be measured, and this can be kind of mathematicized.

00:32:21.900 So, secondly...

00:32:23.100 I've got to stop you there.

00:32:24.720 Yeah.

00:32:24.960 It cannot be, right?

00:32:26.140 So we've seen what happens when humans try to create an artificial intelligence or algorithm to determine output,

00:32:32.780 and what you end up with was Elsagate on YouTube.

00:32:35.780 YouTube said, we want long form, we want keywords, we want to put in all these parameters.

00:32:41.280 Basically, what they did was they looked at what was working on Netflix and YouTube,

00:32:44.020 and they said, these are the key components of successful content, fed that to the algorithm,

00:32:48.820 and then what happened was people started putting out videos of Hitler with a woman's body doing Tai Chi with the Incredible Hulk

00:32:54.020 while someone's saying nursery rhymes.

00:32:57.020 So that doesn't work.

00:32:57.900 AI definitely has the potential to run amok and produce undesirable outcomes.

00:33:02.980 But let's ask ourselves, what was the purpose of that kind of algorithm?

00:33:06.840 It was just to maximize viewership and engagement, specifically targeting children.

00:33:11.480 Is that a goal as a society we want to have, that children's attention is fixated on their screens and on YouTube?

00:33:18.240 Probably not.

00:33:19.260 So, obviously, there is a human element.

00:33:21.680 But when it comes to the economy, you know, we all hate BlackRock.

00:33:25.040 I'm not a fan of BlackRock.

00:33:26.680 But I do appreciate innovations in the productive forces.

00:33:29.580 Already, this is how it works.

00:33:31.940 Our retirement funds, basically, that's what BlackRock mostly manages, by the way, can calculate already.

00:33:40.840 This is how the current so-called capitalist economy works.

00:33:45.200 The profitability of a given enterprise determines how much is invested in it.

00:33:50.280 So, already, this kind of feedback loop, the foundation and material basis of communism, is already here.

00:33:57.960 Now, we don't like ESG scores and how they're being used.

00:34:01.840 But that's a question of who controls the means of production, not necessarily a question of the technology itself.

00:34:07.840 And thirdly, this is the kind of last point I'd like to say.

00:34:11.020 I actually disagree that in the Soviet Union, because of a problem of human nature, there was a lack of incentive.

00:34:17.460 I think since the beginning of time that is recorded for human history, a true artist aspires toward glory, recognition, and for their product, for their work to be realized at all costs.

00:34:32.520 I believe you are a kind of fan of Ayn Rand.

00:34:35.240 Would I be correct?

00:34:36.220 Well, I really admired her.

00:34:39.560 She was a foundational thing for me, yeah. 0.98

00:34:41.940 Well, even Ayn Rand actually can appreciate this irreducible human striving to produce the work for its own sake.

00:34:51.420 I mean, Atlas Shrugged, wasn't it about an architect?

00:34:54.240 It wasn't even about...

00:34:55.160 No, the Fountainhead was about the architect.

00:34:56.400 Fountainhead, yes.

00:34:57.260 It was about an architect who was actually focused on their art above all else, right?

00:35:02.220 So, I think when someone engages in the production of art and creativity just for the sake of getting rich, I don't really think that's the sign of a powerful artist.

00:35:14.660 I think a powerful artist puts their work before anything.

00:35:18.200 And this is why Soviet artists...

00:35:20.220 This is why Steven Spielberg himself said, Soviet films and cinema is better than Hollywood.

00:35:25.420 Because, actually, the restrictions of the market and having to focus on profit margins wasn't there.

00:35:32.340 So, artists were free to actually pursue a creative vision completely freely in the Soviet Union.

00:35:39.740 Yeah, but there's pros and cons to that. 0.95

00:35:40.960 I mean, without any kind of mechanism for incentive, you'll end up with a bunch of weird, crazy garbage.

00:35:46.300 With an over-prophetization model, you end up with Marvel movies.

00:35:52.980 These, like, cookie-cutter, bland ABC storylines that eventually people are just like, okay, we get it.

00:35:59.120 You made the same movie 15 times.

00:36:01.220 So, there needs to be a balance.

00:36:03.380 I wonder if the real issue is simply cultural.

00:36:05.960 If you look back at, man, like the 80s into the 90s, there are so many movies that they're trying to reboot and recreate because we loved them so much.

00:36:15.120 And then today, you look at the movies they make and it's like Transformers 12 and, you know, Marvel 16 and just cookie-cutter garbage.

00:36:21.920 But if I may say so, you know, I know I'm biased here, but at least this is my opinion and my taste.

00:36:29.900 I think an exception standing out to this kind of nostalgia industry, the Disneyfication of all of media, is Chinese cinema, particularly Chinese science fiction.

00:36:40.560 I've watched both movies, The Wandering Earth 1 and 2, and people accuse the Chinese cinema of being bland and just kind of blockbuster disaster movies, which it has been maybe for a few decades.

00:36:53.100 But I think these movies have a soulfulness and have a kind of spirit to them, which authentically tries to capture the moment we're living in now to envision the future.

00:37:09.580 Today, what cinema and what movies really speak to an embrace of the future and the present moment?

00:37:17.320 We're trying to go back to the 80s, to our childhood, to the 90s, and we don't have an ability to bravely see through some kind of way to make meaning and beauty out of the future ahead of us.

00:37:29.260 So I think communism actually, to me, is a part of that aesthetic striving of having a responsibility before our collective future.

00:37:40.420 I think one of the big issues is multiculturalism and the component of it being, you may have seen these videos on Instagram or YouTube where, actually Instagram, massive, no one talks.

00:37:55.220 They have, there will be like a woman, a guy will do something, maybe like a magic trick or something like this, and the woman will have this crazy expression on her face because they're trying to convey an emotion without language, because they're trying to appeal to the widest basis, the biggest base imaginable.

00:38:12.720 If you make lowest common denominator content, the ideas are all stripped out.

00:38:17.300 You're not going to get well thought out linguistic works.

00:38:20.980 You're going to get a guy throwing a football at another guy's groin, and then a woman going like, wow, and then everybody, that's going to get more shares because it's not that it's better. 0.82

00:38:29.800 It's not that it's, it's good artistic content.

00:38:33.400 It's that if 90% of any culture hates it, but 10% of every culture likes it, that's going to be more views, more money, more incentive.

00:38:43.180 And so determining value is relatively difficult today and trying to figure out how we make good artistic works.

00:38:50.840 I wonder if the challenge is simply, this is why my focus is always cultural.

00:38:54.980 I don't think there's a governmental or, or, you know, regulatory solution to all the problems people keep complaining about.

00:39:00.840 It's totally cultural problems. 0.70

00:39:02.600 If everybody, I tell people this, communism works 100% very easily, so long as everyone agrees with it.

00:39:10.140 The problem is humans don't agree with everything, and you'll always end up with various amounts of dissent.

00:39:16.080 The problem for any kind of, any kind of system that seeks to have a purity within it is that there is only one solution to undesirables.

00:39:24.960 With a system like, you know, classical liberal constitutional republicanism or these, these fields of liberal values, true liberal, not like modern American liberal, is that we tolerate dissent to varying degrees, which allows people and ideas to compete and then certain ideas improve.

00:39:42.700 Can I, can I, can I, can I jump in here?

00:39:44.340 Because, look, look, look, you know, Haas is right, you know, in the Soviet era, there were some great movies made.

00:39:51.500 There was a great ballet.

00:39:52.780 The Soviets put a lot of emphasis on culture, but within limits.

00:39:57.640 You know, if you were a poet like Pasternak, who talked about, you know, lyricism and beauty and whatever, he was tolerated.

00:40:06.220 But anybody who talked about politics or any form that was opposed to Stalin, you went to the camps, like Mandelstam went to the camps, like Akhmatova was.

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00:41:16.240 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:41:20.400 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

00:41:27.940 We care about you.

00:41:29.080 We care about you.

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00:41:33.260 Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

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00:41:41.020 Care.

00:41:41.700 Care.

00:41:42.000 Did I mention that we care?

00:41:43.060 Persecuted, civil titha, et cetera.

00:41:50.000 The reason we have lost our way in the culture here is because we've had so much Marxist influence in Hollywood,

00:41:58.060 so much Marxist influence in the churches, so much Marxist influence in education,

00:42:06.960 that the American values that people grew up with in the 50s and the 60s that were optimistic,

00:42:13.840 you know, America's great, freedom's great, we're going to lead the world,

00:42:18.880 they have been so denigrated and so crushed that all that is left is this nihilistic, you know,

00:42:29.240 gangster type of culture, these bland, insipid movies that come out of Hollywood.

00:42:35.780 Look, in the 50s and the 60s, that was a golden age of American art, of American culture.

00:42:41.780 Now, I'm not saying we should go back to that.

00:42:44.660 We should go back to the system that produced it.

00:42:48.560 We should have freedom.

00:42:50.160 You cannot make certain movies in Hollywood now.

00:42:53.320 You cannot have certain comedy acts.

00:42:56.140 You cannot say certain things.

00:42:58.260 You look at Monty Python in the 80s and the things they used to say that you cannot say now

00:43:04.380 because that is all cultural Marxism and has is being just disingenuous here.

00:43:11.780 When he says that Marxism, that wokeness is not Marxist, wokeness is 100% Marxist. 0.89

00:43:19.560 It is cultural Marxism.

00:43:21.140 It's drawn from the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

00:43:24.640 So we've got this feminized Marxism that has wrecked our institutions, wrecked our colleges,

00:43:31.760 wrecked our movie industry. 0.61

00:43:33.100 And now has is coming up with a sort of masculine communism, which appeals to people who are sick

00:43:41.840 of the feminist pansy wokeism.

00:43:44.660 But it's two false alternatives here.

00:43:47.460 We had a system that worked well and Marxism has destroyed it.

00:43:51.760 I think the issue is, you know, there are a lot of practical arguments for I don't like

00:43:57.800 using the word communism because it's a reference to a historical like phase.

00:44:02.600 And we can talk about maybe distributed or public ownership of the means of production

00:44:09.760 or whatever, whatever that may be or whatever.

00:44:11.300 But there are a lot of interesting questions.

00:44:13.680 And I'll give you one anecdote that was was probably formative for me when I was younger.

00:44:18.880 I met a homeless guy in Chicago.

00:44:21.040 I had some pizza left over and, you know, I'm like skating down the street.

00:44:24.440 I had like a half pizza in a box.

00:44:25.820 And I saw this guy and he said, he's like, what up?

00:44:29.260 And I was like, hey, man, are you hungry?

00:44:30.380 And he was like, yeah, I'm hungry.

00:44:31.840 I was like, you want some pizza?

00:44:32.520 He's like, hell yeah.

00:44:33.260 And so I gave him the pizza.

00:44:34.440 And then I was like, can I ask you a question?

00:44:36.700 And he's like, sure.

00:44:38.020 You know, shoot.

00:44:38.500 And I asked him why you was homeless.

00:44:40.180 The story was actually simple.

00:44:41.260 He worked at the post office his whole life.

00:44:43.520 Eventually, they closed his post office down.

00:44:45.940 He was too old to find any kind of other job or meaningful work.

00:44:49.200 He searched.

00:44:49.640 He couldn't.

00:44:50.060 Eventually, his savings dried up.

00:44:51.500 He couldn't pay his rent.

00:44:52.380 They evicted him.

00:44:53.140 Here he is homeless.

00:44:54.160 I said, what about friends and family?

00:44:55.860 He said, man, I'm old.

00:44:57.260 They're all dead.

00:44:57.800 He's like, my family's dead.

00:44:59.920 I didn't have a brother and sister or something like that.

00:45:01.700 He's like, my friends, I lost all of them.

00:45:04.160 And so I thought to myself, here's a guy who is a trained master postman.

00:45:08.700 He has every skill we have asked of him.

00:45:11.440 He has done everything we as a society have asked of him.

00:45:14.000 And then one day we decided he was obsolete.

00:45:16.700 And there was no mechanism by which to allow him to continue to function faithfully in society.

00:45:21.200 And so I thought to myself, like, well, we can't have that.

00:45:24.880 If there are people who have jobs that become obsolete, and then for that they now have no access to society's resources, we are going to get violence and revolution and chaos when jobs start to disappear.

00:45:37.680 I'm not saying I have an answer for this.

00:45:39.620 I'd say that's something that gave me pause and made me wonder, like, what do we do to solve a problem like that?

00:45:44.460 So, it isn't a problem.

00:45:46.780 So, I think I will.

00:45:47.560 Well, there's, it is a problem.

00:45:49.660 I have an answer to that, but it has us.

00:45:52.300 I'd like to briefly respond to actually what both of you have said regarding liberalism and Marxism and so on.

00:45:59.840 And I think I can condense this into one point.

00:46:03.220 You know, one of the things I probably disagree with, and it's maybe ironic because it's the communists in America who are thought of as utopians and idealists.

00:46:12.060 I actually consider myself a pragmatist and a materialist, which means I believe in getting things done.

00:46:18.680 I believe in a sobering acceptance of reality as it is, not as I want it to be.

00:46:23.300 And part of that means I have to appreciate, for example, I cannot accept this notion of a pure liberalism, which I think is at the root of much of this disagreement.

00:46:35.120 It may have been true, as you said before, that liberalism promotes this ability to kind of be outside the system, maybe, and disagree with the hegemony of some kind.

00:46:48.100 But it's because of the contradictions of liberalism itself that we have entered the kind of authoritarianism, which I think you misidentify as Marxism.

00:46:59.360 What you call Marxism is a result of liberalism's own contradictions.

00:47:03.540 And what is this contradiction?

00:47:05.180 Liberalism, which promotes freedom, has no positive content of freedom.

00:47:09.560 What does freedom look like, right?

00:47:11.160 And once you have, for example, perceived sociological, cultural, even economic, political structures which stand in the way of this liberal freedom, these become enemies of the liberal society.

00:47:25.780 The conservative family becomes an enemy of liberal society.

00:47:29.800 The remnants of cultural differences between different groups becomes an enemy of liberal society.

00:47:35.720 Because remember, it's a value of liberalism, radical liberalism, that all distinctions of the standing in the way between individuals dissolves, and one is just an individual.

00:47:48.280 All collective identities, all collective forms of existence are regarded as an obstacle to the realization of the total freedom.

00:47:57.620 So, paradoxically, liberalism, whose value is libertarian and letting people do what they want, becomes its opposite, authoritarianism.

00:48:09.520 And Dugan, I don't agree with the view that I am just an American Duganist.

00:48:14.280 No, I don't say just, but I'm saying there's an influence.

00:48:16.800 Right.

00:48:17.420 The influence is there.

00:48:18.620 I acknowledge that influence.

00:48:19.760 And one of the influences I think he renders quite succinctly that liberalism must become itself the ultimate totalitarianism, because this abstract notion of freedom, because it's not concrete freedom, befitting of a concrete existence of a people, it's just abstract freedom of the individual, must actually become totalitarian and enforce this freedom at the expense of our human nature, I think.

00:48:47.860 So, the wokeness in Hollywood and the kind of cheapening of – also, you mentioned in the 50s and 60s, this is the golden age of liberalism.

00:48:57.120 No, no, no, of culture.

00:48:59.400 But I disagree, because in the 50s and 60s, remember, this is fresh off the boat of the New Deal, and actually the response to the failure of liberalism in 1929.

00:49:11.100 And paradoxically, with neoliberalism, the economic liberalization of the economy, that's when we got all of this kind of cultural authoritarianism and restrictions.

00:49:21.360 That – and everyone knows the 80s were way better.

00:49:23.380 Your decades are wrong.

00:49:24.520 Yeah.

00:49:24.740 Well, here's the thing.

00:49:26.800 Well, I'll define what I am.

00:49:28.240 You know, you talk about liberalism.

00:49:29.620 I'm an American constitutionalist.

00:49:31.100 You know, the government should be bound down by the chains of the Constitution.

00:49:38.080 That has economic benefits and that establishes a system of property ownership, property rights protection, right to self-defense, Second Amendment, et cetera.

00:49:48.400 But that is not – but that doesn't mean you don't have social institutions.

00:49:54.280 You have churches.

00:49:55.460 You have friendly societies.

00:49:57.460 You have all sorts of institutions.

00:49:59.780 We're both an individual and a collective being.

00:50:03.040 But this is the whole point.

00:50:06.220 You know, freedom does not lead to tyranny.

00:50:09.560 Tyranny leads to tyranny.

00:50:11.560 You talk about the New Deal.

00:50:13.020 You know, that was when basically the communists ran Hollywood – the communists ran the Roosevelt administration.

00:50:19.840 They set up the Works Progress Administration, which flooded the country with thousands of left-wing writers and socialists, et cetera, which had a very bad effect on the culture.

00:50:31.980 Look, it is not about – the economics isn't the key factor here.

00:50:38.400 The key factor is human liberty, and human liberty cannot be guaranteed in any form of collective system, whether it's fascism, socialism, communism.

00:50:49.240 Human liberty can only be guaranteed in a constitutional system where the government is limited to its bare functions, which is national defense, suppression of crime, justice system, et cetera.

00:51:04.280 That allows the churches to flourish.

00:51:07.440 That allows the social institutions, the friendly societies, the community groups.

00:51:13.420 That allows the flowering of civil society.

00:51:16.980 Let me ask you.

00:51:17.640 Do you think that people should have a right to be obscene in their language in entertainment?

00:51:25.920 Well, in a private setting, of course.

00:51:29.000 But you mean like a comedian should be able to go on stage and start saying all the nastiest things he wants?

00:51:34.500 Yeah, absolutely.

00:51:35.200 Well, in the 50s and 60s, that was illegal.

00:51:36.920 Yeah, in certain places it was.

00:51:38.940 I'm not saying that it was perfect at that time.

00:51:43.180 Lenny Bruce pushed back against that kind of thing.

00:51:45.840 Right.

00:51:46.320 George Carlin famously arrested him.

00:51:48.400 Exactly.

00:51:49.120 In a private setting, in a private club, you should be able to say what you want to say.

00:51:54.520 So the reason I bring this up is going back to the 50s and 60s and 70s, and even to the 80s, it has been a gradual transformation in our culture to allow more and more of what culturally we would describe as obscene to the point now where we have child drag shows.

00:52:13.000 It's children ripping their clothes off on stage for cash.

00:52:15.140 So there's a—I hear a lot of this, you know, both from you, Haz, you know, and Trevor.

00:52:21.200 And to me, everything just comes back to is a group of people aligned culturally?

00:52:25.920 Because then there's no question.

00:52:27.660 If every—if you had 100 people and they were all communists, pure, genuine communists working with each other, you've got no issues.

00:52:36.560 In fact, there's actually a commune in the United States that caps out at 100 people.

00:52:40.760 If someone leaves, they'll allow someone to come in.

00:52:43.240 If people don't tolerate the communist structure, they ask them to leave and replace them with someone else.

00:52:48.880 And it functions well because they've culturally homogenized their community.

00:52:53.380 In the United States, we can talk about all the great works that were happening, but it was enforced cultural homogenization in that it's not absolutely right.

00:53:00.700 There's dialects.

00:53:01.540 There's different styles.

00:53:02.300 You go to one area, there's different music there. 0.97

00:53:03.980 But there were certain barriers of if you do this, not only will you be arrested, some people might beat the living crap out of you. 0.84

00:53:11.200 Yep.

00:53:11.300 So you had—I mean, look, people talk about this.

00:53:15.320 If a child drag show happened in the 50s, I don't know if those people who were putting that show on would make it out alive.

00:53:22.540 Well, look, a child drag show shouldn't happen now because we have laws to protect children. 0.95

00:53:28.880 But if the adults want to do a drag show, they can do it whatever they like.

00:53:32.880 Yes, there was cultural repression.

00:53:35.840 There were laws that shouldn't have been there.

00:53:37.960 But there's also social pressures.

00:53:40.680 And a cohesive society will have social pressures.

00:53:45.640 And as Haz says, an artist or someone who really is on fire for an idea or an artwork will defy those social pressures.

00:53:55.380 And that drives social progress.

00:53:57.500 But when you get legislation, which you did in the Soviet Union, which you do now in China—you know, in China you can be a Christian, but the Bible is actually changed to worship the state, not Jesus.

00:54:13.840 You can do all sorts of things in China as long as it's within the parameters.

00:54:19.260 I am saying for free individual adults, there should be no legal parameters on their behavior as long as it does not hurt anyone else or endanger the national security of the country.

00:54:32.860 But in a communist system, there is none of that.

00:54:35.880 What do you mean by hurt?

00:54:37.880 Define hurt in a legal sense.

00:54:39.500 Well, you cannot steal, you cannot rape, you cannot defame, tell lies about somebody to damage their reputation.

00:54:49.800 You cannot sell the country's security secrets to a foreign power. 0.86

00:54:55.140 These are all, you know, well-established things that most societies understand.

00:55:01.260 Well, let's go back to the hot-button issue of today, which is child drag shows. 0.84

00:55:05.300 Is that hurting someone?

00:55:06.860 It's hurting children.

00:55:08.100 Children, you have no right to inflict a minor to that kind of thing.

00:55:12.780 What is that kind of thing?

00:55:14.040 So I'm trying to figure out how we legally define what—I obviously have my opinions on it, but I'm curious, like, what about a child, you know, putting on this makeup, acting in adult manners and pulling their clothes off, would you define as the line legally?

00:55:32.460 Like that the law should intervene and say you cannot engage in this behavior.

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00:57:01.760 Well, you know, if you put on a show that it's exposing male genitalia, that is...

00:57:10.400 But they're not all doing that, right?

00:57:12.280 No.

00:57:12.680 The issue for me, I'll break it down, is you've got 10-year-olds on stage at adult bars where it's 21 to enter, but they have special laws that allow children to perform and then leave.

00:57:23.600 And they have little boys ripping their clothes off, revealing still more clothes, but it is the act of stripping down to like shorts or t-shirts as men throw money at them.

00:57:33.020 This is a sexualized performance. 0.73

00:57:35.240 I personally believe, I'm not a staunch libertarian or anarchist or anything like that.

00:57:40.260 I believe that many of our laws are rooted in strong moral systems, which is why there are certain limits to when parents have rights and when the state has rights.

00:57:49.840 So, does the state have a right to force a medical treatment on a child in defiance of the parents?

00:57:57.380 That's a tough question, right?

00:57:58.840 Depends on the medical treatment.

00:58:00.120 If we said a kid was dying because their parents were trying to enforce veganism on them and they were protein deficient and malnourished, we would definitely want some authority to come in and be like, you've got to give the kid meat.

00:58:12.540 You've got to give him food.

00:58:13.520 But what if the parents are trying to, the parents are refusing, say, like a gender transition, and then the state decides for the betterment of the child, we are going to intervene.

00:58:22.480 We, you know, at least we here at Timcast, I'd say absolutely not.

00:58:27.100 The state should not enforce and mandate that on parents.

00:58:29.100 So, there really is a cultural and more individually communal-based morality around when we want the state to intervene.

00:58:39.540 And this is the beauty of the federal system because you have different cultures in different areas.

00:58:44.960 And certain areas, they have ordinances against strip clubs.

00:58:49.500 Some places, it's fine.

00:58:52.060 That is best left to the local level, that kind of thing.

00:58:55.400 But the principle that underage children should be exposed to that kind of stuff, I have no problem with the state stopping that at all.

00:59:04.520 So, I actually think you're onto something when you're talking about culture and this issue of culture.

00:59:09.840 Because let's ask ourselves a simple question.

00:59:12.720 In China and in even Iran, a non-communist state, there are no necessary laws against these things. 0.83

00:59:19.440 Why? Because it is already organically within their culture.

00:59:26.840 And it's an unwritten rule that this is impossible.

00:59:30.640 So, these unwritten bonds of civilization, which don't have to be enacted into law, is actually the more fundamental premise of communism.

00:59:39.780 What does communism mean in China for a Chinese person?

00:59:43.060 In America, it means the totalitarianism for the average person when they hear that word.

00:59:47.960 But in China or in Russia, communism doesn't mean the totalitarianism of the state.

00:59:52.960 Communism means the already recognized communal existence of the Chinese nation or the Russian nation,

01:00:00.840 given, elevated to the supreme interest.

01:00:03.460 This is why it's inherently patriotic in China or even in Russia.

01:00:07.320 Like, the communists in Russia are, you know, far more patriotic even than Putin, right?

01:00:12.260 And there's a reason for that.

01:00:13.440 Because communism everywhere outside of the West means giving representation and political supremacy

01:00:21.580 to the existing civilizational values and communal bonds inherent in a people.

01:00:28.380 This is why Marxism-Leninism is national-informed.

01:00:31.640 Now, in the American case, we have a problem in America because we don't know how to define ourselves as a nation.

01:00:39.460 We don't have these unwritten bonds of civilization.

01:00:42.480 Or if we did have them in the past, they've substantially eroded.

01:00:46.580 But to bring it back to the question of the impossible ideal of liberalism, why is that?

01:00:52.140 And I think I would respond to it by saying, because in America we have seen the total hegemony of cultural liberalism,

01:01:01.460 the view that any collective existence is false, is not legitimate,

01:01:09.420 and that the real legitimacy is only the whim of the individual.

01:01:13.440 And this is an extension of the liberal ideology to the sphere of culture.

01:01:18.580 So the question of communism in America is not just a question of the economy or policy.

01:01:24.500 It's also a question of acquiring and building a nation.

01:01:28.800 How do we learn how to live with each other and reproduce ourselves as a civilization?

01:01:34.600 This is a fundamental communist question.

01:01:37.620 As much as the question of who owns the land, who owns the banks, and who owns the resources,

01:01:42.580 there's also a question of how do we exist collectively or in an organic way without it having to be enforced.

01:01:51.420 And I think this is the premier American question of the 21st century.

01:01:55.600 America must find a way to exist as a nation, or else the United States will be united no longer.

01:02:06.080 I'm not convinced that it can find a way.

01:02:09.020 And to go back to what you were talking about when you mentioned federalism,

01:02:12.220 and certain rules in certain states, I think that is actually a recipe for disaster.

01:02:18.420 It may be good in a certain sense for a certain amount of time, but ultimately it will lead to chaos.

01:02:22.680 Yes. Abortion is a big issue in the United States. 1.00

01:02:25.960 It's one of the key wedge issues.

01:02:28.080 And my position as of today is that it is a federal question whether or not an unborn human being does have constitutional rights.

01:02:38.220 You don't have to agree with me.

01:02:39.580 My point is simply this.

01:02:41.540 If we have two states, we have Oklahoma and Colorado.

01:02:44.420 They border each other.

01:02:45.600 In Oklahoma, abortion is completely illegal.

01:02:47.820 In Colorado, it is completely unrestricted up to the point of birth.

01:02:50.760 A lot of people I talk to, more libertarian and classically liberal, will say, this is a good thing.

01:02:55.980 That means if you want those rules, you can go to Colorado and get those rules.

01:02:59.040 And I say, what happens when under one system of governance of the United States and one constitution,

01:03:04.600 a man and a woman get pregnant?

01:03:07.440 Obviously, the woman is the one pregnant carrying the baby. 1.00

01:03:09.760 And let's say at seven months, the woman decides, I can't be with this man.

01:03:12.860 I don't want to have this baby.

01:03:14.020 Now, the baby can survive outside the womb.

01:03:15.560 But she decides to jump the border to Colorado, taking the child with her.

01:03:19.500 The man then says, no, no, no, wait, don't kill it.

01:03:21.820 There's no reason to kill it.

01:03:22.720 I'll take the child. 0.95

01:03:23.720 It's my child.

01:03:24.520 And Colorado says, we don't care. 1.00

01:03:26.320 We're going to kill it. 0.95

01:03:27.180 You have these dramatically, dramatically different worldviews where in one state, 1.00

01:03:32.280 they're saying she is kidnapping a child to murder it.

01:03:34.780 And Colorado saying it's just a medical procedure.

01:03:36.900 I don't see how in the long term, and I'm not trying to ignite an abortion debate.

01:03:42.300 I'm just pointing out one extreme example where the views are becoming so disparate that

01:03:48.520 it could lead to absolute violence.

01:03:51.180 And we saw this with the first civil war.

01:03:53.300 I say the first, scary, right?

01:03:54.280 In the United States, where you had states arguing who is or is not a person and guaranteed

01:04:00.020 constitutional rights.

01:04:01.080 And so the civil war in the United States was not completely just about the civil rights

01:04:07.060 of black Americans.

01:04:08.740 It was a much, much broader and complicated issue.

01:04:11.540 However, it was obviously slavery, which led to this main issue.

01:04:16.640 Bleeding Kansas pre-Civil War seven years was a fight over whether or not Kansas would

01:04:20.460 be a slave state or a free state.

01:04:22.140 And the disparate ideology of the United States were murdering each other in that state.

01:04:26.640 And then the civil war started, which brought in all the other states.

01:04:30.080 And this was mainly around whether or not Abraham Lincoln was going to abolish slavery or suspend

01:04:35.360 the expansion of slavery.

01:04:36.960 Then when Abraham Lincoln, of course, rallies troops and conscription and makes people go

01:04:41.640 quell the rebellion, it causes many other states that break apart.

01:04:44.860 So you get my general point here.

01:04:47.180 I think what I would say is that one of the things Marxism, I think, is useful for is identifying

01:04:53.760 that there may be a deeper cause.

01:04:56.700 And this is not economic reductionism, but it's an analysis of a social differences.

01:05:01.560 So we know in the Civil War underlying this difference of opinion were different classes,

01:05:07.720 the slavocrat classes of the South for whom slavery was the primary mode of accumulation

01:05:12.920 versus the kind of northern industrialists who believe that, no, we shouldn't have a stagnant

01:05:18.640 system of accumulation.

01:05:20.560 We should have industrial innovation and so on and so on, which was directly opposed to

01:05:25.140 slavery, which was stagnating the productive forces.

01:05:27.920 So underlying the clash of the ideology was a class difference.

01:05:31.500 And I think it's the same today.

01:05:33.420 I think today the difference you're seeing in America is a clash between hegemonic institutions,

01:05:38.280 which act as social engineers elevated above all of society on the basis of modern science

01:05:44.900 and on the basis of expert knowledge versus the communal or whether we agree with them

01:05:50.760 or not, the authentic values a people possess or at least think they possess.

01:05:56.280 Because I'm not going to give conservatism such an easy, scot-free, free pass.

01:06:04.360 That's exactly it.

01:06:05.360 Because I understand also how certain capitalists also influence this kind of rural areas and

01:06:12.740 completely drive opinion and all the brainwashing that goes on.

01:06:16.080 But nonetheless, they have a more authentic interaction with these kind of beliefs.

01:06:20.820 It's more close to their heart than, say, a kind of liberal who just believes this because

01:06:25.940 an expert told them to believe it and they don't relate to it authentically necessarily.

01:06:30.520 So what I will say is that, look, America, amidst all of our multiculturalism, amidst all

01:06:36.800 of these cultural differences, there is something that we can identify at least in a preliminary

01:06:42.620 fashion that is common to us as American, American civilization, and it's pragmatism.

01:06:48.260 So we believe the ultimate truth as Americans is what works, what is sustainable, what can

01:06:56.160 fend for itself, like Jack London's The Call of the Wild, a beautiful piece of American

01:07:01.020 literature expressing our culture.

01:07:03.320 And I think it's true also for culture.

01:07:05.460 Look, we can have these debates about what should be moral, what should be legal, what should

01:07:09.680 we put on the books all we want.

01:07:11.200 But at the end of the day, what matters is what's going to work.

01:07:14.800 What's going to be compatible with a genuine, collective human existence.

01:07:19.900 And when I say that, I mean the ability for human beings literally to reproduce an existence,

01:07:25.520 not only biologically, that's also very important.

01:07:28.980 Like people need to be able to feel like, you know, they want to have kids and raise families

01:07:34.780 and have family values.

01:07:36.000 But also something that's not going to drive people to want to kill themselves and have

01:07:41.040 a moral crisis where they get into drugs and fentanyl.

01:07:44.580 And this is the spiritual element that is actually, if you want to put it in a vulgar

01:07:48.700 way, necessary for human beings to work, just to exist.

01:07:52.980 Like we need to feel like we live in a society commensurate with morality, with beauty, with

01:07:59.240 goodness, just to be able to function.

01:08:01.320 So it's very American that we place an emphasis on just functionality and it works.

01:08:07.160 But I think this may be a key to, for me, at least speaking, I'm the only communist here,

01:08:12.180 but for me, this is key to American communism, understanding the pragmatism as a kind of basis.

01:08:20.480 But, you know, so really what it comes down to in all of these arguments is a cohesive

01:08:25.080 culture where people agree with each other.

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01:09:51.840 Did I mention that we care?

01:09:53.280 Oh, no.

01:09:57.840 No, look, look.

01:09:59.700 We have a system that works when it's used, and that's the American Constitution,

01:10:04.820 the division of powers.

01:10:06.100 And you're right that federalism creates problems.

01:10:08.740 And you have cases in Texas.

01:10:10.760 A mother will take her transitioning boy to California because she can't transition him in Texas. 0.95

01:10:21.360 But if you have a centralized unitary state, whichever faction gets into power can enforce

01:10:30.120 their dictates on the whole country.

01:10:32.260 Well, of course, unless everyone had the same moral beliefs.

01:10:34.540 And we don't.

01:10:35.420 We don't all have the same moral compass.

01:10:38.360 You know, there is a unifying culture in America that's getting increasingly shattered

01:10:43.900 right now because you have a big polarization going on.

01:10:47.440 And I'd say that is driven almost exclusively by the left.

01:10:51.360 You know, this is – you talked before about, you know, the communists in America.

01:10:57.480 Well, look, parties like the Communist Party USA, Democratic Socialists America, they have had a major

01:11:04.420 impact in infiltrating the universities, infiltrating the Democratic Party, driving their policies,

01:11:11.220 whether it's socialized healthcare, whether it's transgenderism, whether it's wokeism, gutting the military, you know,

01:11:23.260 making America no longer energy independent.

01:11:26.200 You know, you've got a Marxist right now who's Secretary of the Interior, Deb Harland,

01:11:30.500 and she is cutting every energy lease she possibly can in this country. 1.00

01:11:35.360 You've got a Secretary of Energy, another Marxist, Jennifer Granholm, 0.95

01:11:38.860 who wants to make all U.S. military vehicles electric by 2030.

01:11:43.340 You've got another Marxist, Julie Su, who's Secretary of Labor, 0.95

01:11:47.720 who is helping these Chinese-driven strike wave that we have seen in the United Auto Workers Union

01:11:55.320 in the – almost put UPS out on strike.

01:11:59.480 These are driven by the Chinese, just like Black Lives Matter was driven by China. 0.95

01:12:04.600 So we have this massive Marxist infiltration of our institutions, which is fracturing the country,

01:12:12.720 destroying that cohesiveness for a reason.

01:12:16.020 They want a revolution here.

01:12:17.700 Right.

01:12:18.000 But that seems more like our nation's being attacked with disruptive, chaotic ideas instead of someone's trying to build something, right?

01:12:26.520 Well, yeah.

01:12:27.300 Look, and this is a key point that Haas is talking about.

01:12:29.700 You've got this – you know, they're talking about the unifying communism in China or say –

01:12:35.700 and I still think Russia is, as you say, Haas, has still got communist forms there.

01:12:41.800 When the communists are in control, they want to unify the country.

01:12:45.600 They want family values.

01:12:47.560 They want to unify their patriotic.

01:12:50.040 But they spread the disruptive side of communism here, just like China will execute drug dealers, 0.52

01:12:58.120 but they kill Americans with fentanyl every day because their goal is to destroy America and keep their country together. 0.96

01:13:06.900 Russia will clamp down on gays and transgenders, but their communist friends spread it here 1.00

01:13:15.940 because the goal is to destroy us, to take us over, while preserving themselves. 0.97

01:13:23.100 This is the whole crux of the argument.

01:13:25.560 Communism is patriotic when it's in control.

01:13:28.740 When it's not in control, it's completely unpatriotic

01:13:32.440 because its goal is to destroy the existing social order so they can then establish their order.

01:13:39.280 So, I completely disagree just because of, I think, part of his practical experience on my part,

01:13:45.460 what you say about DSA and CPUSA, and also my understanding of history.

01:13:50.400 You say that it's the communists who have infiltrated the system,

01:13:53.980 but all evidence and experience on my part shows me the opposite is true.

01:13:59.780 It's the system that has infiltrated the communists.

01:14:02.520 So, during the 1940s, for example, there was a 50,000-member-strong CPUSA,

01:14:09.920 maximally, according to some historians, 300 of which were Soviet agents of some kind.

01:14:15.280 Now, keep in mind, after the invasion of Hungary in 1956,

01:14:19.460 where there was widespread disillusion with the Soviets,

01:14:22.100 the Soviets ceased to have ideologically motivated agents.

01:14:26.080 They would just bribe people, basically, with money, right?

01:14:28.660 But, at this point, fast-forwarded decades later,

01:14:33.580 of an 8,500-strong CPUSA, 1,500 of them are FBI informants.

01:14:40.600 So, the CPUSA itself has been infiltrated.

01:14:43.780 The institutions, the academic institutions,

01:14:46.240 because, remember, I don't mean to be too much of a Marxist,

01:14:49.140 but I also think it's common sense.

01:14:51.460 What makes more sense?

01:14:53.500 Just an ideology being the octopus that is driving all of this,

01:14:57.440 or money, who funds these institutions?

01:15:00.000 Who funded the destructive cultural left, as you describe it?

01:15:04.320 It was the CIA through Rockefeller Ford Foundation money,

01:15:07.800 the Institute for Social Research,

01:15:09.660 the Frankfurt School, that was funded by the CIA.

01:15:12.260 Specifically, and this is where I disagree with you,

01:15:14.620 it's not that China and Russia are disrupting our culture with this stuff.

01:15:18.920 We are doing it to them.

01:15:20.160 We are spreading cultural color revolutions to disrupt traditional societies all across the world. 0.99

01:15:27.120 We're not only doing it against the communists in China and Russia,

01:15:30.640 because who funds the LGBT movement in Russia?

01:15:33.580 It's not communists.

01:15:35.060 It's us.

01:15:35.520 We do it, right?

01:15:36.420 We also do it in Europe to our supposed allies,

01:15:39.300 Hungary and all of our NGOs and interest groups.

01:15:42.360 We're the ones spreading wokeism globally.

01:15:44.160 We're doing it through the oligarchical capitalist class.

01:15:49.140 And let me tell you something,

01:15:50.260 as someone with some experience in this regard,

01:15:52.460 I am a devoted communist who does want a communist power.

01:15:56.620 I complete, it's like, as Mark says,

01:15:58.580 the communists disdain to conceal their aims, right?

01:16:02.280 So as do I.

01:16:03.120 You cannot keep an operation going without a steady flow of income, money, and revenue,

01:16:10.440 or else the institution that the agent is planting themselves in will corrupt them.

01:16:16.200 If you have a communist sitting as a post as a professor in a university for 40 years,

01:16:20.820 the culture, institutional culture of the university,

01:16:24.300 which is bourgeois, according to Marxism, will shape their outlook.

01:16:28.120 This is why Maoism talks about the need for a mass line.

01:16:31.040 Even when you create a party apparatus with a bureaucracy and a fundamental organization,

01:16:37.020 you're paying people a salary.

01:16:39.080 Mao innovated the necessity that you need to actually break out of that bubble,

01:16:43.600 that institutional bubble, go down to the people, rule people, the country,

01:16:48.100 and hear the opposite perspective, just to humble yourself, right?

01:16:52.100 Because institutions corrupt people.

01:16:54.840 So I completely disagree that communists have infiltrated the institutions.

01:16:58.720 To me, it seems more clear that the institutions funded, financed, and created by the oligarchical

01:17:05.300 capitalist class have corrupted the communists.

01:17:08.500 Well, this is what I'd say to that.

01:17:10.660 The foundations, the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Foundation, were infiltrated by the communists

01:17:16.040 starting back in the 30s, even the 1920s.

01:17:19.540 All of those institutions are promoting communist left-wing causes.

01:17:24.500 The Biden administration is chock full of communists.

01:17:29.580 That is why they are spreading this wokeism around the world.

01:17:32.800 That is why they're doing this.

01:17:34.940 But, you know, so the FBI, which used to attack communists,

01:17:40.180 is now basically working for them.

01:17:42.740 You know, this attack on MAGA that they're involved in,

01:17:46.180 this is because they're driven by leftists.

01:17:48.560 You know, Comey talked about his communist background.

01:17:52.180 You know, Brennan talked about voting, the head of the CIA talked about voting for Gus

01:17:57.180 Hall.

01:17:57.780 The communist movement, the socialist movement, has massively infiltrated almost every major

01:18:05.060 American institution.

01:18:06.620 And this is the cause of the wokeism.

01:18:09.400 This is the cause of the chaotic American foreign policy, because we are being used to destroy

01:18:15.920 ourselves and our allies.

01:18:18.280 And that has been directed from China and still to some degree from Russia.

01:18:22.120 But you're saying that wokeness is not communism. 0.52

01:18:24.540 No.

01:18:24.680 And that's why you have MAGA communism.

01:18:26.840 Well, it's just Marx.

01:18:28.900 There's no wokeness in China or Russia.

01:18:30.920 You know, there's no wokeness in a communist country.

01:18:33.540 So, yeah.

01:18:34.540 China's, you know, they're doing ads where they've got young men who are fit.

01:18:37.780 Russia is doing these military commercials where they're ripped men with shaved heads jumping

01:18:42.360 out of airplanes.

01:18:42.860 So, to me, it's like MAGA communism is not just a response to wokeness.

01:18:47.560 MAGA communism, the meme, if you want to know the meaning of it, is basically this.

01:18:51.200 Because the fertile soil of a communist movement in the U.S. will have as its foundation the same

01:18:59.420 people who are MAGA right now.

01:19:01.640 It will be that foundation.

01:19:02.760 Because, to me, MAGA is trying to give America a collective existence.

01:19:09.060 It's trying to give identity to an American nation.

01:19:12.380 I don't mean, oh, it's just white people.

01:19:14.180 I mean, it is outside of the institutional hegemony, at least to an extent.

01:19:19.460 Let's pause.

01:19:20.260 So, do you oppose what we would describe as, like, the woke left?

01:19:25.160 Yes.

01:19:25.540 The Palestinian LGBT flag? 0.69

01:19:27.720 What do you think of that?

01:19:29.160 Look, this, here's the thing, right?

01:19:33.020 I don't hate LGBT people.

01:19:36.100 I think there has been a great deal of confusion, a breakdown of the family, a rise of enmity.

01:19:44.160 People are channeling their feelings in destructive ways.

01:19:46.960 So, I want these, I want what's best for these LGBT people.

01:19:52.980 I want them to be able to find peace with what they're struggling with.

01:19:58.060 But whether it's the right wing or the current woke leftists showing solidarity with Palestine,

01:20:03.660 I choose to believe there is an authentic reason for why they're doing it.

01:20:09.400 Yes, of course, leftists are interpreting it.

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01:21:38.540 In terms of the post-colonial studies and whatever whitey bad stuff, 1.00

01:21:45.240 and right-wingers are interpreting it in their own problematic ways.

01:21:48.400 My question, sorry, just to get the modern left that we see in this country.

01:21:54.880 I don't like LGBT flag. 1.00

01:21:56.540 I don't like any LGBT flag. 1.00

01:21:58.700 I'm just saying like the woke left is not what you would view as communist.

01:22:02.620 Absolutely not.

01:22:03.420 Their ideals are mostly based on weird identity-based things.

01:22:07.740 Is that what you're saying?

01:22:08.960 Yes.

01:22:09.400 Basically, look, I started my career trying to reinvigorate the CPUSA using modern media technology.

01:22:17.720 And I have run up against the obstacle of the Ukraine censors.

01:22:23.080 I've run up against the obstacle of censorship on all these other issues.

01:22:26.960 I have never run up a more profound, I've never run into a more profound obstacle in my career

01:22:32.980 than what the CPUSA has done to me.

01:22:35.960 And I wasn't problematic.

01:22:37.140 I wasn't bigoted.

01:22:38.200 I wasn't any of these things they now accuse me of.

01:22:41.280 Just because I wanted to reinvigorate that party and return a foundation.

01:22:46.400 This is what communism is about.

01:22:48.400 Your foundation of a communist movement.

01:22:50.600 This is true.

01:22:51.360 Go back to the beginning of Marx.

01:22:53.020 This is communist organizing 101, is in the working class.

01:22:57.720 That's your foundation.

01:22:59.020 That's where all of your ideas have to authentically interface with.

01:23:05.440 The notion of a communism based in universities and elites and professionals and intellectuals,

01:23:11.080 it's against Marxism.

01:23:13.060 How can it be Marxist?

01:23:14.080 Marxism is about the class struggle.

01:23:16.300 Do you have a commune?

01:23:17.580 Do you have a community or anything that you've built or are building?

01:23:19.800 I don't, this is more the utopian socialism, which actually has a very long history in

01:23:25.880 the United States.

01:23:26.540 And it was critiqued by Friedrich Engels and Marx.

01:23:30.080 There was various in the 1800s, they called them utopian socialists, and they wanted new

01:23:35.000 harmony and so on.

01:23:35.960 They wanted to build these kind of a shell of what they would consider a functioning society.

01:23:41.540 Now, personally, I think America is an experimental culture by nature.

01:23:45.180 And actually, I'm not against experimental forms of association at all.

01:23:50.980 I just think that we should find ways to reward and be inspired by the ones that work.

01:23:58.740 So room for experimentation and then see what works.

01:24:02.000 But to me, communism is not about a certain lifestyle.

01:24:04.860 Communism is about a way of relating to the existential predicament of your nation, to

01:24:10.640 your people, and most importantly, to the working class.

01:24:14.720 Describe your, like, how is communism achieved?

01:24:19.320 What would this country look like?

01:24:21.060 If it's achieved?

01:24:22.360 Well, I can't speak too far ahead into the future because I'm conditioned by what exists

01:24:28.560 now.

01:24:29.380 Again, I'm a pragmatist and materialist.

01:24:31.600 But if I had to guess, I think a communist America would embark on a very heavy emphasis

01:24:39.880 on the building of large infrastructure, industry, and most importantly, rapid acceleration of

01:24:47.560 the productive forces, ushering in a fourth industrial revolution much faster than we currently

01:24:53.260 are doing now.

01:24:54.440 So this would be, it would have to be a cultural thing.

01:24:56.560 It would have to be, everybody agrees, we're all going to, like the space project, right?

01:25:00.680 Like all America was super unified and we love the space race.

01:25:03.820 Yes.

01:25:04.160 If you understand Antonio Gromsky, who's one of the most important theorists of Marxism,

01:25:08.940 before political power can be achieved, some kind of cultural foundation of communism,

01:25:14.780 of communist hegemony must be built.

01:25:17.700 But most people confuse Gromsky for the phrase, the long march through the institutions.

01:25:22.960 That doesn't come from Gromsky.

01:25:24.780 It comes from a West... 0.99

01:25:26.300 Rudi Dusche.

01:25:26.860 Rudi Dusche, right.

01:25:27.820 Who was a dissident in East Germany who opposed the actually existing socialist system and

01:25:33.560 fled to West Germany and kind of became a new leftist, third worldist, and so on.

01:25:38.220 So, no, Gromsky believed that you build a foundation of cultural hegemony by having a foundation

01:25:45.500 in the working class, building institutions that are funded by the working class collectively,

01:25:51.640 that are upheld by them, that are maintained and reproduced by the working class.

01:25:56.100 How does the working class determine what to fund? 0.50

01:25:59.300 Organization.

01:25:59.980 You create organizations.

01:26:01.820 First of all, you create perhaps businesses.

01:26:04.240 Today, there's a ton of possibilities.

01:26:06.340 I mean, even having a YouTube show that you can garner millions and millions of viewers of

01:26:11.240 working class people, that's a form of communist capital you can build.

01:26:15.420 You can have businesses, cooperatives.

01:26:17.520 That's private venture.

01:26:19.140 If people choose to give me money, then I use that money for what I want to do with

01:26:22.100 it.

01:26:22.320 Sure, but it's conducive to the aims of a communist movement, which is to build a form

01:26:26.640 of cultural hegemony.

01:26:27.700 Obviously, that's going to be within the system we live in now.

01:26:30.840 See, that's the issue I'm trying to understand, because I don't think that's communism, right?

01:26:34.420 That doesn't seem to make sense.

01:26:36.000 I think culturalism, perhaps, the mission we have here is we produce content, we have

01:26:42.280 a show, we have our varying opinions on the show, and then people choose to give us money,

01:26:48.320 we use that money towards ideological ends.

01:26:50.280 Well, the premises of a communist economic system, those are material.

01:26:54.980 You cannot voluntarily create communism.

01:26:57.320 The prediction of Marx and Engels, and of Marxism in general, is that according to historical

01:27:03.680 and material laws, the capitalist mode of production, within the seeds of capitalist

01:27:08.760 production itself, lies a transition into socialism and communism.

01:27:13.560 And I think they've been vindicated, actually, because another view I have is that technically,

01:27:18.600 I like to use terms that people understand, so when I say we live in capitalism, it's just

01:27:23.920 I'm referring to an institution, but technically speaking, I don't think we actually live in

01:27:29.360 a capitalist mode of production anymore.

01:27:31.840 I think we've gotten rid of commodity money.

01:27:34.920 According to Marxism, that's central to a capitalist production.

01:27:38.620 Money must be a commodity, right?

01:27:40.420 Gold, for example.

01:27:42.020 Money today is fiat money, okay?

01:27:43.900 So when currency itself, when exchange value itself is political, we can't talk about living

01:27:50.200 in a capitalist system anymore.

01:27:51.660 Also, the information economy, I think, has done a lot to accelerate a transition into

01:27:57.560 a post-capitalist economy.

01:27:59.620 I don't think enterprises are purely profit-based anymore.

01:28:03.000 I think that there's this...

01:28:03.960 ESG.

01:28:04.520 Yeah, exactly.

01:28:05.300 Precisely.

01:28:05.980 Precisely that.

01:28:07.160 So, you know, building a communist movement is going to be the premise.

01:28:13.520 This is what Marx said.

01:28:14.980 The premises of the communist movement are now in existence.

01:28:18.140 So, yes, communists can open small businesses to create a hegemony and fund a movement.

01:28:25.480 Is that a capitalist relation of production?

01:28:28.440 Maybe, but is it one also within a wider transition, regardless of what we do?

01:28:33.980 Yes.

01:28:34.400 Also, communism doesn't come from the sky.

01:28:38.840 It comes from the premises now in existence.

01:28:41.060 So, you know, Lenin said this, it's kind of an idea to get the view of what communists

01:28:47.180 believe, but it's kind of gruesome a little bit.

01:28:49.920 But it's, you know, understand it metaphorically.

01:28:52.120 You hang the capitalist with the rope, he sells you.

01:28:56.740 But I don't believe in the violence.

01:28:58.960 I just, you understand, it's like you're destroying the system through the system itself.

01:29:03.380 Well, you know, to say you don't believe in the violence has, you know, you've got, you've

01:29:08.040 got, you know, the evasion going in the crane right now.

01:29:11.420 You've got threatens, threats to invade Taiwan.

01:29:14.380 You've got Russia's puppet, you know, Iran creating mayhem in Israel. 0.95

01:29:21.240 You know, these are all violent things.

01:29:22.940 But we'll get back to an area you talked about the mass line before.

01:29:27.440 People need to understand what the mass line is.

01:29:29.620 That's a Maoist term, and that the theory is you go to the people, they give you the

01:29:34.620 ideas, and you come up with a mass line, and everybody must do it.

01:29:39.580 Well, we saw the mass line during COVID.

01:29:42.240 We see the mass line through Black Lives Matter, which is a Maoist construct. 1.00

01:29:47.340 We saw the black, we saw the mass line in transgenderism. 0.82

01:29:51.420 You cannot challenge transgenderism. 1.00

01:29:54.320 You could not challenge the, you know, the masks, lockdown, vaccines mantra.

01:30:02.940 You could not challenge that.

01:30:04.600 That was enforced through the World Health Organization, which is controlled completely

01:30:08.580 by the CCP.

01:30:10.360 And by, no, let me finish.

01:30:12.140 I gave you a good go.

01:30:14.020 And so this is enforced here by pro-Chinese politicians, pro-Chinese unions in our state.

01:30:20.320 We saw communism through COVID.

01:30:23.420 We saw communism through Black Lives Matter. 1.00

01:30:25.940 We've seen communism now with the transgender movement. 1.00

01:30:29.620 We saw communism with the fact that you cannot challenge election results.

01:30:35.020 This is mass line politics in America now enforced through the CCP, through the big tech

01:30:43.680 that depends on the CCP, through the institutions controlled by the CCP in this country.

01:30:49.160 That is tyranny.

01:30:51.560 I gotta say, you know.

01:30:52.400 That is pure tyranny.

01:30:53.260 There can be no other result of communism than tyranny.

01:30:56.880 You mentioned the famous line of hang the capitalists with the rope they sell you.

01:31:00.920 And that, I think, describes the issue of the CCP you're describing perfectly.

01:31:04.600 American institutions, big tech, for instance, they say, we want to make a bunch of money.

01:31:09.680 How do we do it?

01:31:10.580 In America, you can make any movie you want.

01:31:13.180 Certainly don't offend the activists and, you know, the woke left or whatever, because they'll

01:31:17.700 boycott and it'll be a whole big nightmare.

01:31:19.520 So for the most part, however, if we make a movie with certain things in it, people won't

01:31:24.540 really care.

01:31:24.960 However, if you want to release that movie in China, you got to draw the dotted lines

01:31:28.180 around the South China Sea.

01:31:29.740 Because China is a massive market with monetary opportunity for American companies, the American

01:31:34.380 companies are going to adhere to the path of least resistance, which means in the United

01:31:39.480 States, nobody cares.

01:31:40.980 For the most part, if you draw seven dotted lines around the South China Sea.

01:31:45.240 In China, you have to.

01:31:47.280 So what do the movies do?

01:31:48.380 They just do it, which means American culture is being influenced.

01:31:52.420 Google is banning people who say things like against the World Health Organization, not

01:31:56.220 necessarily because I mean, probably partly because they are ideologically aligned, but

01:32:00.760 it's because this they're like, look, if we want our products in China where we can

01:32:04.360 double our revenue, we have to adhere to the CCP.

01:32:06.520 It's cheaper if we just do it across the board.

01:32:09.240 This means that in the United States, we will be subject to the pressures of the CCP.

01:32:13.340 It is American capitalist endeavors trying to make money, bending their knee to the CCP

01:32:19.240 and other dictators because it's cheaper.

01:32:21.440 So you look at what just, you look at why is sports so woke?

01:32:25.160 Because Nike controls sport.

01:32:26.940 Who is Nike in bed with?

01:32:29.160 Look, I am.

01:32:29.680 They want to sell.

01:32:30.820 Look, look, some libertarians say we should have free trade across the world.

01:32:34.160 I completely disagree.

01:32:35.520 We should be completely disengaging with China, with Vietnam, with Russia and Iran and Cuba. 0.52

01:32:44.320 Well, absolutely disengaging because they will not survive without our support.

01:32:48.860 We are keeping them in business so they can destroy us.

01:32:54.060 Well, I think this is part of the contradiction of liberalism I mentioned.

01:32:57.740 But before I get into that, I'd like to say two things.

01:33:00.780 One is that the mass line, I completely disagree that the COVID response in the United States

01:33:07.780 or Black Lives Matter for that matter was an example of mass line.

01:33:11.300 How do I know this?

01:33:12.600 Preceding Black Lives Matter was an injection of what I believe to be half a billion dollars

01:33:17.260 by George Soros.

01:33:18.300 So it was an institutional endeavor from the top down.

01:33:22.020 If it was a mass line, they would be going down to people outside of these institutions

01:33:26.560 and having that inform their outlook, these activists.

01:33:29.860 But they did the opposite for both COVID and Black Lives Matter.

01:33:33.580 What they did was impose views synthetically created in the bubble confines of universities

01:33:40.320 and try to impose this on the people.

01:33:42.440 I live in Michigan.

01:33:43.640 Gretchen Whitmer was my governor.

01:33:45.460 If Gretchen Whitmer did the Maoist mass line in Michigan, she would go to northern Michigan. 1.00

01:33:52.340 She would go to...

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01:35:18.200 To places people are living and actually appraise their thoughts, their feelings, their mood and their consciousness with regard to her lockdown measures.

01:35:30.840 And if she did that, she would have been able to very easily understand.

01:35:36.000 What do you mean?

01:35:37.020 She would go around praising people and she did arrest people who opposed her.

01:35:40.520 No, no, no.

01:35:41.020 But that's not the mass line.

01:35:42.680 The mass line means, let me finish, you formulate your policy and you formulate your response to a given event based on your understanding of where the masses stand.

01:35:52.260 And the masses in Michigan stood opposed to what Gretchen Whitmer was doing. 0.54

01:35:55.960 She was out of touch.

01:35:57.160 So it's the opposite of a mass line.

01:35:59.400 Yeah, yeah.

01:35:59.640 But most people were just like, it's not so much whether she's aligned with them or not.

01:36:05.800 It's what are they willing to accept?

01:36:07.400 But whether they're willing to accept it or not, those policies were formulated by, for example, Dr. Fauci.

01:36:15.400 By that, I mean by out of touch expert institutions, the Chinese Cultural Revolution and Maoism bombarded these institutions.

01:36:24.140 They bombarded the experts.

01:36:25.460 They bombarded the technical specialists and said, no, the feeling and will of the masses is more true, right?

01:36:33.880 So it's the opposite.

01:36:35.200 It's hyperpopulism.

01:36:36.700 It's not the technocracy of COVID or Black Lives Matter.

01:36:41.040 Now, I also want to say with regard to...

01:36:43.020 Well, look, he wanted to respond to that.

01:36:44.600 Well, look, this is the big deception of communism.

01:36:47.320 They say, well, the mass line, we will consult with the people, they will formulate our ideas, and then we'll do the mass line.

01:36:54.420 That's not how it works.

01:36:56.040 They come up with an idea.

01:36:57.780 They do these fake consultations.

01:37:00.560 They say, well, the people agree with us.

01:37:02.720 Therefore, we have a mandate to do it.

01:37:05.420 That's how they do it.

01:37:06.980 This is the thing.

01:37:07.980 Communists talk about democracy.

01:37:09.760 What is democracy to a communist?

01:37:11.640 It is the will of the people.

01:37:13.000 Who are the representatives of the people?

01:37:15.620 The communists are the representatives of the people.

01:37:18.540 So therefore, democracy is the will of the Communist Party.

01:37:22.520 So the mass line is exactly what we saw in Black Lives Matter, a Maoist Chinese communist operation with deep connections to the Chinese consulate in San Francisco, run by the Freedom Road Socialist Organization and Liberation Road.

01:37:38.900 It was completely enforced because real mass line in the real world is the imposition of the mass line from above through Tedros and the World Health Organization, a Chinese puppet, through Susan Mickey, a member of the British Communist Party who now runs the World Health Organization's social conformity unit.

01:38:03.040 What we saw through the transgender movement, through the COVID, was Chinese mass line forced on this country through subservient politicians and pro-Chinese communist slave unions. 0.98

01:38:19.140 This is contradicted by a cursory examination of the facts, okay?

01:38:23.660 In China today, you go to a rural peasant who is more outside of the reach of the central government, and they're hanging a picture of Mao on their wall.

01:38:32.700 And part of the reason of Xi Jinping's rise and his kind of neo-Maoism was a grassroots populum.

01:38:38.240 So I completely reject the notion, and I think expert historians will probably reject the notion that the Cultural Revolution mass line was synthetically created in the Congress.

01:38:49.000 But just to clarify, you're saying that a rural Chinese peasant will hang pictures of Mao in reverence?

01:38:54.580 Yes, absolutely.

01:38:55.980 Is it possible that it's because they killed anyone who wouldn't?

01:38:58.600 No, because it's the same in Russia today, long after Stalinism, even in the history of the Soviet Union and today.

01:39:05.120 There's no Stalinist power ruling Russia today, right?

01:39:08.360 There's no repression of people against Stalin.

01:39:10.720 See what people in Moscow are saying, these liberals in Moscow.

01:39:14.220 You go to the remote regions of Russia, those are the Stalinists.

01:39:17.600 It's the ordinary people who revere Stalin.

01:39:20.040 So the same thing is actually true in China.

01:39:21.980 So the notion of the communist mass line just being the imposition of the Communist Party institution, that was the very thing Mao conceived.

01:39:31.640 That was the very problem Mao was working against with the mass line.

01:39:35.100 And his populism was authentic.

01:39:37.660 There's a book I would recommend.

01:39:38.820 It's called The Unknown Cultural Revolution by Dong Ping Han.

01:39:41.860 And in it, you'll find eyewitness accounts, and this guy is some kind of dissident in China today, but he records eyewitness accounts, records, and historical data that shows actually the Cultural Revolution was a populist uprising of Chinese peasants.

01:39:56.540 It was the imposition of a people's dictatorship over the kind of bureaucracy of the party.

01:40:03.000 Do you know how many people died in the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution?

01:40:07.400 Uh, there's no way of knowing for certain.

01:40:10.220 There's the Black Book of Communism estimate.

01:40:12.380 The problem with the Black Book of Communism is that two of the three authors who participated in compiling it disavowed it later and said that the editor was obsessed with reaching a total of 100 million just because-

01:40:25.800 Yeah, some say it could be 5 to 50 million.

01:40:27.860 It was a lot.

01:40:28.460 Because it's wide estimates.

01:40:29.620 Regarding the famines in both the Soviet Union and in China, yes, many people died, yes.

01:40:35.480 Do you believe the story of the sparrows and the pig iron in China?

01:40:39.080 Do you think those are historically accurate?

01:40:40.940 Uh, they may be contributing factors, but overall the reasons for famine in both the Soviet Union and China was two things.

01:40:47.760 A combination, the most important one, I'll rank them in order, was the rapid transition to the modernization of agriculture from a pre-modern agrarian society.

01:40:57.420 That caused a disruption in the food supply because it happened in a very rapid, condensed time period, right?

01:41:04.560 So central planning changed how they were-

01:41:07.600 Not just central planning, but see, rapid modernizations of agriculture, if you look historically, have led to the worst calamities everywhere, including in non-communist states.

01:41:17.560 Because accompanying English industrialization, we had the Irish potato famine, which killed more as a proportion of the Irish population than did Mao's greatly for it.

01:41:26.200 You're saying the potato famine was the result of modernization?

01:41:29.300 Yes.

01:41:29.820 It was a result of a deliberate policy of the British to suppress the Irish.

01:41:35.080 But look, this is the central lie of communism.

01:41:37.700 This is the central lie of communism.

01:41:39.280 Okay, we can debate whether $5 million, $50 million, $40 million died, as though that doesn't mean anything.

01:41:46.360 Of course it does.

01:41:47.160 This would never happen.

01:41:48.980 Did this ever happen in America?

01:41:50.900 America industrialized more rapidly than any-

01:41:54.040 On the back of British capital.

01:41:55.440 We had access to-

01:41:56.620 Well, it doesn't matter where the capital came from.

01:41:58.340 They didn't have access to any capital.

01:41:59.760 They had to do it from scratch.

01:42:00.860 America industrialized because America had a free system-

01:42:03.720 That's not true.

01:42:03.980 Where people could employ-

01:42:05.140 Well, see, this is where we disagree.

01:42:07.040 America was great because America was free.

01:42:11.800 People could invest.

01:42:13.220 They could bring capital in.

01:42:14.960 They could build factories.

01:42:16.580 They could build-

01:42:16.960 It was never central planning.

01:42:19.140 Every time central planning has been, you just said it, rapid transition, forced rapid transition,

01:42:27.220 dislocation of the supply chains, massive famine.

01:42:31.560 So it wasn't all accidental either.

01:42:34.600 It wasn't all-

01:42:35.520 Some of the Kulaks, between 6 and 10 million Kulaks, deliberately starved in Ukraine.

01:42:42.600 Deliberately.

01:42:43.080 I completely disagree.

01:42:44.340 But before we get to the allegation about Ukraine, actually, you're wrong about American industrialization.

01:42:50.700 It's a big myth that the American system of economics is free trade.

01:42:55.980 That was actually the British system, Adam Smith and the classical political economists-

01:43:00.160 I'm not saying it was free trade.

01:43:01.200 Those were the British.

01:43:02.200 It wasn't.

01:43:02.720 It wasn't.

01:43:03.040 In America, we had something called the American system, which originates with Alexander Hamilton and which Abraham Lincoln upheld in the apex and foundation of American industrialization, which was deliberate centralized state policy for public credit to deliberately inspire technological innovation and industrialization from the top down.

01:43:25.600 Top down.

01:43:26.140 To a degree, yes, it was.

01:43:27.820 Also, regarding the view that it's deliberate, look, it was condensed within a short period.

01:43:33.740 But why was that?

01:43:34.520 The Soviet Union, before it was even formed, after their revolution, literally half the world invaded the former Russian Empire to destroy the Bolsheviks.

01:43:44.120 So Stalin in 1931, he said, we have 10 years to catch up militarily and in terms of our industrial economy, just 10 years, or we get buried by the world.

01:43:55.640 Well, what happened 10 years later?

01:43:57.420 The German invasion happens. 0.86

01:43:59.240 So it was a matter of life or death.

01:44:02.300 They had to do this if they wanted to retain their sovereignty.

01:44:05.680 And to say that I think there's no meaningfulness to the millions who perished, no, of course, it's one of the most worst calamities in the history of those countries.

01:44:16.220 But you have to understand their necessity.

01:44:19.500 But there is a context to it.

01:44:21.080 But it's freedom or slavery.

01:44:22.740 Do you submit to foreigners to rule over you or do you have a sovereign economy?

01:44:27.260 Well, this is not a binary choice.

01:44:29.760 It's not a binary choice.

01:44:30.880 It was for them.

01:44:31.580 There's a reason why I asked this question.

01:44:34.660 So in this period in China, are you more or less likely to survive if you are pro-Mao?

01:44:43.560 Probably, yes.

01:44:44.620 But that's also more likely.

01:44:45.820 I mean, but a lot of that is part of what you mentioned earlier, which is the kind of unwritten cultural kind of thing.

01:44:53.960 But if you go on stage, you get attacked or something.

01:44:57.500 So in the Great Leap Forward, in the Cultural Revolution, if you are directly challenging these plans and what Mao was doing, would that negatively impact your life?

01:45:07.960 I couldn't say because there was so much chaos during that period that even people who were fervently pro-Mao, this is part of the horrible tragedy.

01:45:17.240 So you're saying that those photos we have of the struggle sessions and everything, those could have been pro-Mao?

01:45:21.580 That happened later.

01:45:22.580 That happened decade later during the Cultural Revolution.

01:45:25.040 That's why I said the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution.

01:45:26.900 Oh, okay.

01:45:27.280 The Cultural Revolution, yes, there was a lot of violence.

01:45:29.680 So my point is, in these periods, were you more or less likely to survive if you were for communists, these revolutionary changes?

01:45:37.160 If you were pro-Mao, but here's the thing.

01:45:39.560 Even during the, this was the Cultural Revolution ultimately was ended in failure.

01:45:44.180 Mao himself admitted this.

01:45:45.920 It ended in the factionalism of Red Guards because it wasn't enough just to support Mao.

01:45:50.380 You had to prove it authentically, right?

01:45:52.740 So this led to an atmosphere where these student Red Guards would start killing each other and attacking each other because of a-

01:45:59.840 Like purity tests or something?

01:46:00.580 Yeah, but here's the thing.

01:46:02.340 What happened to them?

01:46:03.080 Just like we have an American society now.

01:46:04.860 Which is Maoism.

01:46:05.700 I was real quick.

01:46:06.420 Which is Maoism.

01:46:06.980 When in the period of like a week, the word Wimixen, W-O-M-X-N, was considered the politically correct way to refer to females. 0.99

01:46:17.600 And then that sparked a backlash where they said it was trans-exclusionary.

01:46:21.960 So the attempt at wokeness created multifactional internal wokeness conflict.

01:46:26.680 Which is meant to do.

01:46:27.700 Which is meant to divide.

01:46:29.020 I agree there is a parallel, but I would want to repeat a quotation by Karl Marx.

01:46:34.460 He said, history always repeats itself.

01:46:37.140 First as the tragedy and second as farce.

01:46:40.100 And I think this is an example of how the capitalist West is actually behind the history of communism now.

01:46:46.320 We are catching up to the communists in China because China doesn't have this issue anymore.

01:46:50.280 Because Mao sent the students down to the countryside.

01:46:53.200 They learned from the excesses and the mistake.

01:46:55.500 And I also disagree.

01:46:56.740 Despite all of its failures and despite the tragedy of the Cultural Revolution, there was still something there that was authentic.

01:47:04.360 An authentic attempt to rediscover the basis, authentic basis of communism based on belief, based on devotion to the cause.

01:47:13.280 In America, that's not what you have.

01:47:15.800 There's no actual real cause or real unifying belief people are devoted to.

01:47:20.460 When someone calls you, for example, transphobic, they're not saying you are standing in the way of the glorious people's triumph or something.

01:47:29.800 They're saying, well, you're just personally a bad person. 1.00

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01:49:01.000 A transphobe or whatever.

01:49:03.220 So it's not even really politicized.

01:49:05.400 They don't even directly acknowledge that there's a level of responsibility.

01:49:10.180 There's a stake in it.

01:49:11.500 It's just kind of seamlessly understood or conceived to be like, oh, I'm a normal person, right?

01:49:18.340 The Red Guards, for all their faults, right, at least were devoted to one cause, one ideology, and most importantly, even if they failed in doing it, authentically giving expression to the will of their people.

01:49:34.200 Woke people don't care about doing that.

01:49:36.100 Right.

01:49:36.340 So here's the bad news, I guess, for you.

01:49:38.940 I think that, you know, I'm not going to pretend that I know what's true or not in terms of conspiracy or stuff.

01:49:45.060 But it is fascinating to me that you've got powerful interests in the intelligence agencies that are very, very pro-woke.

01:49:50.180 And they have aligned wokeness with communism because the end result of much of the policies or ideas of wokeness is depopulation.

01:49:59.900 I am not saying that there is a depopulation agenda.

01:50:02.380 I'm saying if you are woke, you are more likely to be for abortion. 0.56

01:50:06.040 You are more likely to be for practices that will result in the sterilization of children.

01:50:11.520 Ultimately, what we're seeing now is that conservatives are more likely to have children and leftists are substantially less likely to have children.

01:50:17.960 The further you go left, the lower the chances of having kids will be.

01:50:22.220 Now, the right is concerned that indoctrination in schools will help leftists overcome this shortfall generationally.

01:50:29.340 That mathematically does not align.

01:50:32.500 What we are seeing now in the polling, Gen Z males of Gen Z, millennials, Gen X and boomers.

01:50:39.700 Gen Z males are the least likely generation to identify as feminist.

01:50:43.460 Gen Z. Yeah.

01:50:44.480 So clearly, you know, indoctrination in schools does not work.

01:50:48.600 However, of the people who do align with modern versions of American Marxism or communism, which includes wokeness.

01:50:55.420 Yeah.

01:50:55.820 They're not going to reproduce.

01:50:57.540 The long term end here is going to be communism loses.

01:51:00.520 What I would say, though, is that I think there is a depopulation agenda.

01:51:04.560 It does come from the oligarchical ruling class, the Club of Rome, the Rockefellers.

01:51:08.540 This is the capitalist class.

01:51:10.060 And I think you're getting it backwards.

01:51:11.960 These people who call themselves Marxism in the West, tracing their origins to the CIA funded compatible left.

01:51:18.040 They're just trying to give some inauthentic ideological legitimation to an already existing agenda.

01:51:25.480 And the agenda doesn't originate in Marxist ideology.

01:51:28.640 The ideology is just being used to legitimate the already existing agenda.

01:51:33.400 And the agenda is obvious.

01:51:34.740 Monopoly capital wants to stifle the growth of human beings, civilization and other entrepreneurs in order to maintain its hold on rents, in order to maintain its power.

01:51:44.720 So I think that's easy to explain, actually, from a Marxist lens.

01:51:48.680 And so what I disagree with when we say that wokeism is similar to Marxism, where there's some kind of-

01:51:53.700 It is Marxism.

01:51:54.660 It's not similar.

01:51:55.420 It is Marxism.

01:51:56.020 I completely disagree.

01:51:56.640 Well, it's cultural Marxism.

01:51:57.540 I completely disagree.

01:51:58.240 There's economic and there's cultural.

01:51:59.320 Well, I completely disagree because while in academia there was an exploration of Marxist ideas in the 50s through the 70s and then ran out of favor and was replaced by the kind of postmodern Foucault and so on, who were actually more influenced by people like Nietzsche and these not really Marx, right?

01:52:19.760 Marx is considered, by the way, Marx, like orthodox in a sense, he's outdated, he's patriarchal, he's Eurocentric, he's cis-hetero-patriarchical, whatever.

01:52:30.540 He himself is just critiqued in academia.

01:52:33.740 But the connection to Marxism only is this very vague, very ambiguous kind of commitment to freedom and-

01:52:42.380 Well, it's- are you familiar with the origin of critical race theory?

01:52:44.960 Yes, but this was as a critical race theory, not many people know this, began as a rejection of Marxism, which elevated the class struggle as the principle-

01:52:56.700 That's incorrect.

01:52:58.000 Kimberly Crenshaw wrote specifically-

01:52:59.820 I can speak on this.

01:53:00.320 She specifically wrote in the book, Critical Race Theory, that Marx was right and he didn't- but what he missed from the American context was that racial politics played a major role in oppressor versus oppression, whereas Marx's view was economic.

01:53:14.960 She said you can't deny the race-based component in the United States, therefore, building off of Marx's critical theory, we must add the component of race to it.

01:53:23.080 But making oppressor and oppressed the fundamental basis is not Marxist.

01:53:28.060 That comes from the legacy of radical liberalism.

01:53:30.680 Marxism is about understanding objective historical laws and social contradictions, which is not reducible to some simplistic oppressor-oppressed.

01:53:40.260 That's liberalism because liberalism was primarily focused on getting rid of explicit political structures.

01:53:47.080 Marxism is more focused on understanding how the development of the mode of production and the relations of production actually condition the political superstructure.

01:53:56.000 Yeah, see, this is the thing.

01:53:57.100 People think of Marxism in purely economic terms, and that was the basis of it.

01:54:01.680 Marxism has changed a lot.

01:54:05.880 The Marxist movement, and I talk about the communist movement, the communist movement is transgenderism, the communist movement is Black Lives Matter, because it's the destructive movement in the West that wants to break down the social structures to replace it with their social structures. 0.94

01:54:22.720 You look at critical race theory, it was absolutely invented by communist party members.

01:54:29.080 The concept of white privilege was invented by Ted Allen and Noel Ignatib, two members of the Communist Party USA, who then went into the Provisional Organising Committee, a Maoist group.

01:54:40.880 You look at Ted Hay, the founder of the modern gay movement, was a communist party member.

01:54:52.480 All the radical gay movements in this country now are controlled by Marxists. 0.98

01:54:57.720 But it sounds like what you're saying is that communists are using these things to destroy the system.

01:55:05.040 This is not representative of what they actually want in the end.

01:55:07.260 No, they, well, to replace the system, you know, to transform the system, like Obama said, you have to destroy the existing social structures.

01:55:18.480 That is why the China... 0.97

01:55:20.840 What I'm trying to clarify here is, what Haas is describing is, here's a system we want to make.

01:55:25.420 What you're describing is, here's how communists are destroying the current system.

01:55:28.740 Exactly, because they might say their goal is this class, this society, and it will never get to that.

01:55:34.100 But once power is centralised in a few hands, it only ever stays in a few hands.

01:55:38.820 I agree.

01:55:39.260 Communism is not about redistributing wealth or a social change.

01:55:42.920 It's about concentrating all wealth and all power in a very, very few hands.

01:55:46.920 Let me give you an example.

01:55:48.860 So during Occupy Wall Street, in the early days, it was eclectic.

01:55:53.960 There were conservatives, libertarians, leftists, liberals, socialists, communists.

01:55:57.000 Some of the principal organisers who eventually took over the movement, pushed everyone else out, centralised all the power within themselves, told me that our goal is to flip the pyramid.

01:56:07.100 Yeah.

01:56:07.300 And I said, okay, now the average person might take that to mean the bourgeois ultra-elites get put on the bottom and the working class is on top.

01:56:14.780 Or the homeless.

01:56:15.820 But that's not true.

01:56:16.700 Yeah.

01:56:16.880 What actually happens if you flip a pyramid over?

01:56:19.140 The bricks crumble into a pile of bricks with someone from the bottom now on top.

01:56:24.280 And they said, exactly.

01:56:26.000 They said, we hope that when we flip the system, it puts us in the central elite authority positions where we can run the system properly.

01:56:32.320 But I don't see what's specifically Marxist.

01:56:34.300 This is just liberalism.

01:56:35.460 If you look at the history.

01:56:36.220 How's that liberalism?

01:56:36.680 This classic Marxism.

01:56:37.700 Let me continue.

01:56:38.500 The classical liberalism was precisely about this kind of rebellion against the existing authority and structure.

01:56:46.040 Vaguely speaking, there's nothing specifically Marxist about that.

01:56:49.020 Obviously, Marxism is revolutionary.

01:56:51.560 But it's not based in this kind of simplistic, we want to put the people on the bottom, on the top.

01:56:56.280 I'll give you an example of this.

01:56:57.720 There's also something I want to speak to with regarding the communist infiltration.

01:57:00.900 But, you know, Marxism doesn't say the poorest members of society are the revolutionary class.

01:57:07.860 The poorest members of society are the lumpen. 1.00

01:57:10.060 If you understand, you know, the term lumpen proletariat, the criminals, the vagabonds, homeless, drug dealers, addicts, and so on and so on. 0.97

01:57:17.800 That's the lowest.

01:57:19.120 The working class is actually not necessarily the poorest part of society.

01:57:23.960 No, aren't they the bourgeois?

01:57:26.040 Who?

01:57:26.700 It was the middle class, weren't they? 0.99

01:57:28.680 No, no, no.

01:57:29.360 The bourgeois is not defined by its wealth.

01:57:32.240 It's not necessarily defined by its social status.

01:57:34.920 It's defined by its relationship to the mode of production.

01:57:38.840 So it's a very important distinction to understand.

01:57:40.980 Marxism is not flipping the pyramid.

01:57:43.260 Marxism is about understanding a class struggle already existing before Marxism.

01:57:48.540 I want to speak to what you mentioned about communist infiltration, so-called.

01:57:52.460 Look, to the extent that there's the communists or the transgender movement and BLM, I can personally attest that that is only to the extent that they have compromised with the ruling class. 0.90

01:58:04.200 I'll give you an example.

01:58:05.520 Gorbachev was not a hardline communist.

01:58:08.520 He was a liberal who was trying to reform the communist system.

01:58:11.520 All of these people you mentioned are not communists.

01:58:16.940 They're ex-communists.

01:58:18.320 They're former communists.

01:58:19.760 They're communists who were traitors who compromised with liberalism.

01:58:23.300 And that is actually with precedent.

01:58:26.020 Lenin is someone who arose in distinction because he recognized the treachery of the social democrats who sold out to the system.

01:58:34.620 And the same thing happened with Gorbachev, the same thing happened with the CPUSA, Angela Davis, the Committees for Correspondence, which wanted to overthrow the hardline communists and have a Gorbachev-style liberal democratic reform.

01:58:48.000 So these people you mentioned are just the traitors who sold out to the ruling class.

01:58:53.160 These are key communists.

01:58:55.040 Look, you've got Michael Kinchner out in Phoenix, Democratic Socialists of America now, who boasts how he got inside the Boy Scouts and changed the policy.

01:59:06.340 He did this inside the Boy Scouts to change their policy from no homosexuals allowed to admitting homosexuals.

01:59:14.460 I just want to clarify, too.

01:59:15.820 I was correct about bourgeoisie. 0.84

01:59:17.740 That destroyed the Boy Scouts.

01:59:18.700 I was correct about my statement on bourgeoisie.

01:59:21.260 What do you mean?

01:59:21.960 I just fact-checked myself.

01:59:22.920 It refers to the business owners and the middle class, somewhere between the lowest and highest income.

01:59:28.020 It's a technical term.

01:59:28.920 It's a reference to urban charters and the merchant class.

01:59:31.080 Right, but in Marxism, bourgeoisie refers to a specific relation of production.

01:59:35.400 Sociologically, it may vaguely refer to all these other things, middle class.

01:59:39.260 But from the Marxist standpoint, the bourgeoisie is those who, the capitalists who own the means of production through private property.

01:59:47.100 Right.

01:59:47.280 My point is, it does not mean the ultra-wealthy oligarchic elites.

01:59:51.460 It means the guy who owns the mom-and-pop pizza shop.

01:59:53.860 No.

01:59:54.300 Yes, it does.

01:59:55.080 Well, here's the thing.

01:59:56.540 It literally originated in France relating to urban charters for people who owned businesses.

02:00:00.860 The bourgeoisie started out small, yes.

02:00:03.140 But what it has concretely evolved into is what Lenin would describe an imperialist bourgeoisie or a monopoly bourgeoisie.

02:00:10.020 And Lenin actually doesn't identify – he makes a distinction.

02:00:13.320 He says there is a petty bourgeoisie, which can be an ally of the proletarian movement and actually should be an ally of them because they have an interest in overthrowing the ruling bourgeoisie.

02:00:25.620 I'm going to tell you the issue I take.

02:00:26.520 The issue I take is I use a general academic term for a certain class.

02:00:30.520 You deny the definition.

02:00:32.300 And then when I say here's at least generally, you said, okay, well, Marx says something different about it.

02:00:37.160 So, look, are we talking about the same thing or –

02:00:40.420 So, I want to just be clear about what I think.

02:00:42.480 I don't think people who own mom-pop shops are part of the same class as the oligarchical elites.

02:00:47.700 This is the issue I take with modern leftism and even what's happening now is racism means something different.

02:00:53.180 Bourgeoisie means something different.

02:00:54.240 It means whatever we need it to mean for our political ends.

02:00:56.100 It means what the book says if you read the books.

02:00:57.900 No, it doesn't mean what the book says.

02:00:59.920 It means a word represents an idea that we can use to communicate certain issues.

02:01:03.260 If you want to pull up the great Soviet encyclopedia on the petty bourgeoisie, even Wikipedia will show you.

02:01:09.660 Right, so if I say a word and then you say my book says this word means something different, this is the obfuscation of words for the purpose of winning a political debate.

02:01:16.540 Hold on, let's just clarify what we mean.

02:01:18.840 I don't mean –

02:01:19.320 That's why I asked, does the bourgeoisie represent – and you said, no, it doesn't.

02:01:22.640 But what you're doing is you're taking a different, altered definition of a word to change what our argument actually is.

02:01:29.040 But the bourgeoisie does not mean this for Marxists.

02:01:31.740 It has never just meant that for Marxists.

02:01:33.660 And it also doesn't just mean this for the purposes of what I'm trying to say.

02:01:37.820 This is what the modern left of the United States with racism and class.

02:01:42.000 They say our word means something different.

02:01:43.680 You misunderstood us.

02:01:44.600 Hold on, hold on.

02:01:45.280 You're trying to say that because I reject the view that the bourgeoisie concretely that we're talking about is the ma and pa shop, this means I'm obfuscating words.

02:01:54.980 When I said the definition of bourgeoisie, you could have said that actually is the traditional academic view of bourgeoisie.

02:02:00.360 In Marxism, however, instead you said, no, you're wrong.

02:02:03.480 Okay, so you're upset that words can mean different things in different contexts.

02:02:06.740 No, I'm upset that the left typically changes the definition of words to suit their political ends.

02:02:10.240 Well, look, I think anyone who just uses words in different contexts, which everyone, regardless of their political alignment, does, I just think this is just an unfair kind of characterization of what I'm trying to say.

02:02:22.220 Look, the typical thing is racism here.

02:02:25.840 To most Americans, racism means unwarranted prejudice against somebody because of their color or ethnic background.

02:02:33.460 Racism to a Marxist means the power structure.

02:02:37.580 It's about the power structure.

02:02:38.820 So it means that a certain segment of society, usually racially based, oppresses another segment of society.

02:02:48.400 So you can get a black football player on $40 million a year who is oppressed and is suffering racism by some white guy on food stamps.

02:02:58.820 Racism means something totally different to a Marxist than it does to most of us.

02:03:04.100 Democracy means something totally different.

02:03:06.820 And as to your point about infiltration, I'm going to do some promotion here because I write books about Marxists in government.

02:03:14.840 I say in these books, security risk senators, I profile 30 currently serving U.S. senators who are involved with Communist Party USA, Democratic Socialists of America, Iran, China, Cuba, and North Korea.

02:03:29.500 Yeah, Patty Murray out of Washington State, deeply involved with the Communist Party USA for decades. 0.95

02:03:38.560 And how powerful is this person, you're saying?

02:03:40.920 Well, she's one of the third-ranked Democrats in the Senate. 0.97

02:03:43.560 And you're saying that she is currently in the Communist Party USA?

02:03:47.280 No, I didn't.

02:03:48.040 I said she has worked with the Communist Party USA for decades.

02:03:51.640 On what?

02:03:52.200 On social policy in Washington State.

02:03:55.600 Such as what?

02:03:56.700 She has funded their organizations.

02:03:59.140 She's steered state funding to their organizations.

02:04:01.480 And she's funded them to create a working class popular movement or funded them to do what? 0.88

02:04:07.020 To create, to get money to take over institutions.

02:04:10.420 Like which institutions do the Communists control?

02:04:13.580 In Washington State.

02:04:14.800 Right.

02:04:15.100 Which ones?

02:04:16.040 They control several, most of the labor unions in Washington State.

02:04:19.160 Which labor union in Washington State is controlled by the Communist Party?

02:04:22.940 Well, by the Communist Movement, SEIU.

02:04:25.540 So you're changing the definition of words.

02:04:27.540 Instead of the Communist Party, it's the Communist Movement.

02:04:29.860 What does communists refer to concretely?

02:04:31.520 Let me finish.

02:04:32.320 I said she is deeply involved with the Communist Party.

02:04:35.160 How?

02:04:36.520 Define deeply.

02:04:37.720 They worked in her campaigns.

02:04:39.360 She funneled money to big courses. 1.00

02:04:40.640 How is that deeply?

02:04:41.660 That's, what do you mean?

02:04:42.720 What do you mean by work?

02:04:43.580 Did someone pass out leaflets in the Communist Party?

02:04:45.720 The Communist Party is irrelevant.

02:04:46.720 Bro, bro, bro.

02:04:47.520 Your counter to my criticism of you changing a definition.

02:04:50.560 I'm just applying your criticism to you.

02:04:52.020 No, you're literally not.

02:04:52.740 You're arguing semantics of the word work and deeply.

02:04:55.320 When I asked you to divine bourgeois and you gave me a Marxist alternate definition of it.

02:04:59.720 Tim, Tim, to be clear.

02:05:01.000 This is a very specific word.

02:05:02.640 Deeply and work.

02:05:03.540 Okay, okay.

02:05:03.980 I'm a good Maoist.

02:05:05.020 I will do the struggle session and the self-criticism myself.

02:05:08.060 I repent for refusing to draw equivalence between the meaning of the bourgeoisie as it applies to France in the 1600s and the bourgeoisie today.

02:05:17.540 And the general definition used by regular people to convey an idea and you arguing the definition was wrong for the sake of your ideology.

02:05:23.600 So by the bourgeoisie.

02:05:25.400 Okay, let's talk about ordinary people.

02:05:27.740 Technically speaking, the word bourgeoisie is used in like hip-hop culture to refer to like the ultra-rich.

02:05:36.020 It's not used to refer to ma and pa shop.

02:05:38.500 So actually, you're changing the definition to mean something scholastic.

02:05:42.180 And say bourgeoisie.

02:05:43.600 Yeah.

02:05:44.040 Bourgeoisie academically has a meaning that is what people are trying to convey an idea to make an argument.

02:05:48.080 Academically speaking, that's the technicality.

02:05:50.860 If you want to be an academic, you have to consult the literature and the literature states that the bourgeoisie, typically speaking, is referring to the hegemonic or big bourgeoisie.

02:06:00.280 The petty bourgeoisie is a different classification.

02:06:03.200 It's not synonymous.

02:06:04.640 Now, you can say I'm changing the definition of words.

02:06:07.540 Please, I implore you, read elementary Marxist literature.

02:06:10.360 Even the Communist Manifesto, it's only 7,000 words.

02:06:13.640 It's literally in there.

02:06:14.620 It doesn't equate the capitalist class with the petty bourgeoisie.

02:06:17.860 The point I'm making is, you read a book from Marx and determined his interpretation of the word is now the universal interpretation.

02:06:24.200 So where did the academic community get it from?

02:06:26.320 It's a French word.

02:06:27.320 Okay.

02:06:27.700 Back to the 17th century.

02:06:28.940 So you're saying the academic community in the contemporary context refers to the bourgeoisie as the 1700s French burger class?

02:06:37.360 Like when we're conveying a general idea and we seek to look up a definition to better understand it and we read a general view of it, it has a meaning.

02:06:45.000 Okay.

02:06:45.200 So what we often see in the United States from the left is, as Trevor pointed out, with the word like racism.

02:06:49.640 They redefine the parameters based on their specific academic view outside the confines.

02:06:54.360 But he's redefining the word communist to mean anyone who has any tangential association whatsoever.

02:07:01.240 He said she's worked with the Communist Party.

02:07:02.980 He said how?

02:07:03.400 She's funded the Communist movement.

02:07:05.020 That is a one-to-one correlation.

02:07:06.680 Okay.

02:07:06.980 Okay.

02:07:07.160 What is a communist movement without the party?

02:07:09.480 What is that referred to?

02:07:10.100 Well, it's Democratic Socialist America.

02:07:11.980 It's Liberation Road.

02:07:12.720 It's Freedom Road Socialist Organization.

02:07:14.600 Okay.

02:07:14.700 Do you know who founded the Democratic Socialist America?

02:07:17.200 Yeah, Michael Harrington.

02:07:17.600 So why didn't he call it a communist party?

02:07:19.420 Because he wanted to infiltrate the Democratic Party.

02:07:22.200 So Michael Harrington was being insincere when he talked about his denunciation of Marxism,

02:07:26.980 Leninism, and Communism.

02:07:27.860 Absolutely.

02:07:28.180 Is that what you're saying?

02:07:28.840 What's your evidence for that?

02:07:30.000 What's your evidence for the insincereity?

02:07:31.440 He hooked up with the New American Movement, which came out of the Communist Party USA.

02:07:36.340 Which came out of it.

02:07:37.420 So these are people who splintered out of it and rejected it.

02:07:39.300 But they were still Marxist-Leninists.

02:07:41.880 Right now, you've got Democratic Socialist.

02:07:44.660 Because they explicitly state it.

02:07:46.500 I've got a huge document.

02:07:49.560 Democratic Socialism.

02:07:50.460 They stated it in the past or they stated it today?

02:07:52.080 Right now.

02:07:53.020 So the DSA is officially a Marxist-Leninist party.

02:07:56.460 It is a Marxist organization.

02:07:59.600 Absolutely not.

02:08:00.600 The DSA rejects Marxism-Leninism as authoritarian.

02:08:05.740 Absolutely untrue.

02:08:06.260 The whole point of Democratic Socialism was to compromise with the liberal hegemony.

02:08:15.980 No, it was to take over the liberal.

02:08:18.560 They explicitly stated they got there to infiltrate the Democratic Party.

02:08:23.620 Democratic Socialists of America gave us Obamacare.

02:08:27.140 This is the central secret of the...

02:08:29.160 What's the evidence?

02:08:30.820 What's the evidence?

02:08:31.380 I can talk...

02:08:31.920 I've written whole books on this.

02:08:33.740 Okay.

02:08:34.020 I can get...

02:08:34.580 Look, it came through Quentin Young, who was a Communist Party member.

02:08:37.760 Was.

02:08:38.220 Who then became a Democratic Socialist of America member. 0.77

02:08:40.280 Became a traitor.

02:08:41.500 And was Obama's personal physician. 0.73

02:08:44.260 And claims...

02:08:46.020 Let me finish.

02:08:47.320 Yeah.

02:08:47.560 Let me finish.

02:08:49.540 Virtually, open borders came through the Communist movement.

02:08:53.780 That is a Communist Party and Democratic Socialist of America construct which has been used to destroy America.

02:09:01.020 The push for the Iran nuclear deal came from the Communist movement.

02:09:05.080 The central secret of communism is this.

02:09:10.220 The small Communist Party can take over labor unions.

02:09:13.860 The labor unions influence and control the Democratic Party.

02:09:17.340 So you're saying Joe Sims of the CPUSA and Rosanna.

02:09:20.740 Joe Sims and Rosanna.

02:09:21.640 Rosanna Cumberland.

02:09:22.660 They're the puppet masters of the Democratic Party in America.

02:09:25.840 Is that what you're saying?

02:09:26.020 Yeah, I am saying that.

02:09:27.360 The people around them.

02:09:28.860 Joe Sims is senile.

02:09:30.240 He doesn't even...

02:09:31.380 Look, the Communist Party USA...

02:09:33.800 I know Joe Sims too.

02:09:35.380 Yeah.

02:09:35.660 The Communist Party USA is led by Joe Sims.

02:09:39.720 But the movement is much broader than that.

02:09:42.260 You've got the liberation...

02:09:43.180 You're saying he's the puppet master.

02:09:44.880 Well, he is part of that apparatus.

02:09:46.860 Who's the puppet master?

02:09:47.860 Well, I would say Judith LeBlanc would be right up there. 1.00

02:09:50.940 Who is that?

02:09:52.120 Judith LeBlanc.

02:09:53.440 She's the one who put Deb Haaland in the Secretary of the Interior.

02:09:58.920 And what is their relation to the Communist Party?

02:10:01.700 Judith LeBlanc is a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party.

02:10:04.360 And she put... 0.94

02:10:05.400 She herself put someone in a position of power? 0.92

02:10:07.940 Absolutely, she did.

02:10:09.500 She mounted a campaign called Deb for Interior.

02:10:13.180 Yeah.

02:10:13.400 She ran it.

02:10:14.060 They had Facebook pages and buses.

02:10:16.700 She was... 0.97

02:10:17.680 She got a whole bunch of celebrity endorsements like Alyssa Milano, Mark Ruffalo, Sarah

02:10:22.900 Silverman.

02:10:23.720 Right.

02:10:23.940 They got Deb Haaland nominated as Secretary of the Interior.

02:10:28.080 So you're claiming...

02:10:28.940 That is 100% documentable.

02:10:30.320 You're saying that she originated that entire campaign?

02:10:33.220 100%.

02:10:33.660 She led it.

02:10:34.440 She led it.

02:10:34.460 So can you name a single Communist Party member who is in office right now?

02:10:39.760 I can...

02:10:40.920 That is not the point.

02:10:43.260 No, that is the point.

02:10:44.120 Because one of the things we've been pushing for is them to field candidates instead of kissing 0.99

02:10:48.400 Democrat ass and they can't do that. 1.00

02:10:49.940 You're trying to dissimulate here. 1.00

02:10:51.000 No, they don't even...

02:10:52.320 They don't have any independents.

02:10:53.580 They're subservient to the Democrats.

02:10:54.640 Let me finish my point.

02:10:56.020 They're subservient to the Democrats.

02:10:57.200 Let me finish my point.

02:10:58.120 What he's saying is quite literally, if you don't declare you're a member of something,

02:11:01.960 you have nothing to do with it at all.

02:11:03.020 That's right.

02:11:03.760 There's a communist movement.

02:11:06.040 There's a few people in the Communist Party that direct a movement.

02:11:10.160 The communist movement is why we have open borders.

02:11:13.000 It's why we have Obamacare. 0.64

02:11:15.020 It is why Iran is about to get the nuclear weapon. 0.96

02:11:17.480 The communist movement controls the labor unions of this country and the labor unions

02:11:23.200 control the Democratic Party.

02:11:24.840 As long as we change the definition of communist movement.

02:11:27.440 Yeah, the communist movement is anybody who has an allegiance to the communist movement.

02:11:32.240 Some are party members.

02:11:33.700 Some are not.

02:11:34.760 Some are Democrats.

02:11:36.180 Like Chris Murphy, the senator from Connecticut, deeply in bed with the communist party.

02:11:41.060 While he was criticizing Trump for Russia, he had a communist party member as one of his

02:11:46.120 key staff members.

02:11:48.140 And what was their key role as the staff member?

02:11:51.500 He was running one of his offices.

02:11:54.060 So I think what you're doing is cherry picking cases where communists are acting as subservient

02:11:59.220 to the Democrats.

02:12:00.200 No, no, no.

02:12:00.960 Here's the thing I can prove.

02:12:02.620 Look, Obamacare was completely a Democratic Socialist of America program.

02:12:08.780 It is now the law of the land in this country.

02:12:12.220 That's not true.

02:12:13.000 The fact that Deb Haaland is canceling energy leases all over this country, directly put

02:12:20.440 in place by a card-carrying, open member of the Communist Party USA, which is completely

02:12:26.540 documentable.

02:12:27.660 I have it in my books.

02:12:28.940 Sure.

02:12:29.320 I can show you all of it.

02:12:30.660 Before we get into the book, I think what we're actually touching upon here is the simple

02:12:34.980 fact that the Communist Party USA has relinquished its role as an independent political organ

02:12:40.940 of the working class and has entirely subordinated itself as an institution to the Democratic Party.

02:12:47.360 So it makes...

02:12:48.040 Hold on, hold on.

02:12:48.560 Let me finish, because I let you finish.

02:12:50.180 It makes sense that here or there you're going to find staffers of this or that person who's

02:12:54.980 actually in power, who's a member of the Communist Party.

02:12:57.580 The whole role of that organization is just to serve Democrats.

02:13:00.800 And I know this because it's a huge point of contention within the party.

02:13:05.000 People in the party are not happy about this, but Joe Sims and Rosanna, who are corrupt sellouts

02:13:10.320 from the committees of correspondence era, who are reformists from the Gorbachev era, who

02:13:14.760 reject orthodox Marxism, Leninism, continue to toe this line.

02:13:18.960 Why?

02:13:19.300 Because they're corrupt sellouts who are institutionally subordinated to powers that are higher than 0.99

02:13:24.320 them. 0.60

02:13:24.760 And again, this has historical precedent.

02:13:26.520 Traitors to the working class movement, ex-communists, make for excellent servants of the ruling 1.00

02:13:32.000 class.

02:13:32.440 They did in World War I, when the Social Democrats of Germany and France were at the

02:13:37.160 vanguard of promoting the first imperialist war.

02:13:40.340 And that's exactly what Lenin was standing out opposed to and against.

02:13:45.140 So you're completely wrong.

02:13:46.280 All you're proving is that there's a whole lot of people who were communists at one point

02:13:50.980 became shills, sellouts, and traitors, which is true.

02:13:53.560 I agree. 0.90

02:13:54.220 They're traitors to the communist movement.

02:13:56.260 Look, when Judith LeBlanc is up there putting a Secretary of the Interior in place, when

02:14:02.460 the current Secretary of Labor was put in place by two pro-Chinese communists, who is

02:14:09.040 actually going out there supporting Chinese-supported strikes across the country, when our energy

02:14:14.840 policy is in the toilet, where Biden, who has worked with the communists his entire career,

02:14:20.140 has sold off 50% of America's oil reserves, which we need to fight a war.

02:14:25.980 Some of it to China.

02:14:27.980 That is examples of high-level communist infiltration to the advantage of China and other enemies

02:14:35.620 of America.

02:14:36.720 That is what I'm talking about.

02:14:38.460 So if I understand you correctly, you're trying to say that the communists who don't own any

02:14:43.660 of the means of production, unlike the oligarchical capitalist class, who don't even hold any position

02:14:48.440 of office and have no actual power of their own, they're the ones in power, not the actual

02:14:54.680 oligarchical elites.

02:14:55.700 So the people who own our land and our resources, those are the ones in power, Joe Simms is.

02:15:04.740 How about we clarify?

02:15:06.040 Let's clarify.

02:15:06.980 The point is, you don't need to say I'm a communist to be a communist.

02:15:10.280 Okay, but where's the proof that the people who owned our land, resources, and means of

02:15:14.940 production, which is the fundamental foundation of power, when you use common sense, if you

02:15:19.440 own how we feed ourselves and clothe ourselves and live, you have more power than anyone else.

02:15:24.820 So where's the proof that they are communists?

02:15:27.240 It is when they control the levers of power.

02:15:31.260 And right now, the energy industry-

02:15:33.400 Power is downstream from money.

02:15:35.300 What are you-

02:15:35.940 You need money to finance a campaign.

02:15:37.580 Where do you get the money?

02:15:38.860 Power comes from the barrel of a gun.

02:15:41.220 Okay, what gun is being used?

02:15:42.440 Let me finish.

02:15:43.800 Who makes the gun?

02:15:44.140 You have got people, the communist movement in this country controls the labor movement.

02:15:50.460 I asked you for proof, you have none.

02:15:52.380 I have a huge amount of proof.

02:15:53.880 Name one communist who controls one given labor movement.

02:15:56.620 No, you're playing a semantic game again.

02:15:58.300 Look, if his point is-

02:15:59.600 Democratic Socialists of America, a communist group, took over the AFL-CIO in 1994 under

02:16:06.280 John Sweeney.

02:16:07.220 They kicked out all the old gut. 1.00

02:16:09.500 And here's a good example.

02:16:10.700 The AFL-CIO used to be opposed to illegal immigration.

02:16:15.700 Used to be.

02:16:16.360 When the Marxists took over under Alisao Medina and John Sweeney, they completely reversed the

02:16:23.120 policy to promoting illegal immigration to the detriment of American workers.

02:16:28.260 So as a Marxist, does it make sense that illegal immigration has its basis in the ideology

02:16:32.620 of a few self-proclaimed Marxists or have its basis in the material incentive of the capitalist

02:16:37.720 class to have cheap labor? 0.64

02:16:39.040 Which one?

02:16:39.440 Well, they play on that.

02:16:40.920 They use the Chamber of Commerce.

02:16:42.380 So which one comes first?

02:16:43.820 The Marxists.

02:16:44.700 So you think that the material-

02:16:46.220 The Marxists have used to-

02:16:47.240 Look, you think the material incentive-

02:16:49.380 The get-off is material stuff.

02:16:50.200 It is power.

02:16:51.400 It is raw power.

02:16:53.140 You have a Secretary of the Interior who is closing down the energy industry because

02:16:57.760 she was put in place by an agent of the CCP.

02:17:00.360 Okay, so-

02:17:01.240 That is real power.

02:17:02.540 You don't have to own something to control it.

02:17:05.620 Why is it that-

02:17:06.380 Look, you had 50 mafia controlling Vegas for years.

02:17:10.180 Yeah.

02:17:10.960 You have a few hundred communists by controlling the labor unions can control the policy direction

02:17:17.380 of the entire Democratic Party.

02:17:18.960 Look, we have no proof of that, but we can deduce-

02:17:20.820 I have extensive proof of that.

02:17:22.720 This is what I write my books about.

02:17:25.540 They are all documented.

02:17:26.860 I'm just going to go out on a limb and say I don't think your books have any proof of it.

02:17:30.680 Well, each book-

02:17:31.900 By any standard of proof.

02:17:33.120 Each book-

02:17:34.120 Well, I've been calling out these politicians for their communist ties for over 10 years.

02:17:38.180 You're accusing them of that.

02:17:39.640 It's like how Antifa accuses anyone of being a fascist based on why.

02:17:42.020 I have documentary evidence.

02:17:43.780 You don't come to a foreign country and say that a large proportion of their leaders are

02:17:49.000 traitors and you do it for 10 years on multiple shows to millions of people-

02:17:53.920 What are they the leaders of?

02:17:55.560 How have they promoted any communist hegemony?

02:17:58.280 Well, Obamacare, open borders-

02:18:01.500 Well, hold on. If you're saying Obamacare came from democratic socialism, Bernie's the

02:18:05.960 one who repopularized that term and he wanted a single-payer system, not Obamacare. 0.54

02:18:10.960 So I don't know what you're talking about.

02:18:12.120 Well, their goal is Medicare for all.

02:18:14.300 Full socialized health care.

02:18:14.760 So what? Scandinavian countries have that. Plenty of countries who are not communist have that.

02:18:18.260 Yeah, and New Zealand has it too and it's a total disaster.

02:18:20.680 So every country that has universal health care is because of communism-

02:18:24.140 Hold on, hold on, hold on.

02:18:25.140 But that is a socialist construct.

02:18:27.220 Look, man. I mean, people can decide for themselves, but you saying the goal of the

02:18:31.700 communists should always be to have a dramatic, hard, revolutionary implementation of policy

02:18:36.640 is just not real.

02:18:37.640 I'm not saying dramatic. That means like an uprising. I mean, have an independent party,

02:18:42.800 field your own candidates, and build your own independent movement.

02:18:45.180 You're talking about overt versus subversive.

02:18:47.320 So it's-

02:18:47.820 Yeah, that's a tip of the iceberg.

02:18:49.960 Hold on. The Communist Manifesto says the communists disdain to conceal their views.

02:18:54.500 Yeah, but Lenin, this is Marxism, Leninism. Lenin was all about conspiracy. Lenin was getting

02:19:01.460 people-

02:19:02.000 Lenin had to-

02:19:02.640 It is not the gaining of power that counts. It is the keeping of power that counts.

02:19:06.260 No, no, no. Lenin-

02:19:07.120 That's Lenin.

02:19:07.600 Lenin had to engage in secrecy because under the czar there was no freedom of expression or speech.

02:19:12.300 But the communists still endage in secrecy. It wasn't to deceive ordinary people.

02:19:16.940 Communism is still, under the Civil Rights Act in this country, communism is still excluded.

02:19:22.160 Yeah, but it's not enforced. It's not enforced.

02:19:24.780 But if the argument is that Lenin was forced to conceal his views because of, under the czar,

02:19:29.940 it was not allowed, at the time in the United States, when many of these people are coming

02:19:32.900 in and acting subversively, they're doing it for quite literally the same reason.

02:19:35.640 But the Supreme Court has never upheld these laws against communists.

02:19:37.680 That's not the issue. It is not socially acceptable.

02:19:39.860 But they were fought in court.

02:19:41.040 That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, if it is not socially acceptable, and people

02:19:44.940 don't like the term, then acting in-

02:19:46.820 Where is that in Leninism? Leninism doesn't say-

02:19:48.820 He just said-

02:19:49.800 No, Lenin says, if they're going to throw you in the Siberian labor camp under the czars,

02:19:55.760 yeah, don't break the laws. Be secretive.

02:19:58.920 My point is-

02:19:59.200 But he's not-

02:19:59.880 There's no element of deception of ordinary people.

02:20:02.600 Yes. If the argument is, there are people who are communists at heart, and they are implementing

02:20:08.380 single measures moving towards communist policy that does not negate the fact that they are

02:20:12.920 communists, you're arguing that a communist would have to come in and say, we're abolishing

02:20:16.740 private healthcare and creating a universal government-only healthcare instantly.

02:20:20.460 No, no, no. They're going to say, we need to get from A to Z, and we got to go through every

02:20:24.160 step in between.

02:20:24.800 That kind of conspiracism is not the communist way. It's always been rejected by communists.

02:20:30.280 It's 100% the communist way. What you see as communism is the tip of the iceberg. Most

02:20:35.360 communist work is undone underground in churches, in labor unions, in the Democratic Party.

02:20:41.940 That is the real communist movement.

02:20:43.420 So to simplify this and get an appraisal of where we stand, because this is relevant to

02:20:47.760 current events, do you believe Joe Sims of the Communist Party USA influences our politicians

02:20:53.880 more than AIPAC?

02:20:55.860 Yes, 100%. Way, way more.

02:20:57.960 So you think Joe Sims in the Communist Party USA... 1.00

02:21:00.960 Not Joe, because he's an idiot. 1.00

02:21:02.020 Okay, so... 1.00

02:21:02.460 But the movement, the key people around him, yes, absolutely.

02:21:06.020 So you think these fossilized communists who don't even... they want to basically dissolve

02:21:12.040 the party as their goal and retire. You're saying that these leftovers have more power over

02:21:17.200 American politics than AIPAC does?

02:21:19.240 100%.

02:21:19.720 I think that's delusional.

02:21:20.680 Well, how many cabinet ministers, how many cabinet secretaries has AIPAC put in power?

02:21:26.620 If any single one of them go against AIPAC's line, what happens to them? What happened to

02:21:30.860 Rashida Tlaib for having a Palestine flag?

02:21:33.400 Well, what she should have happened to...

02:21:35.060 She got censored by Congress.

02:21:36.580 Absolutely she should have.

02:21:38.000 Why did they all vote for her to be censored out of their authentic beliefs?

02:21:40.860 No, because they're bribed by AIPAC.

02:21:44.000 The Jewish vote is big.

02:21:45.100 But also, I want to say, like, it's not AIPAC. AIPAC is a component of the lobby, but the

02:21:51.140 American military industrial complex loves the foreign wars. I don't believe that AIPAC

02:21:57.240 is behind why the US is invading all of these different countries around the world and why

02:22:00.600 they're funding Ukraine.

02:22:01.220 We can... yeah, I think that...

02:22:03.860 The war machine is the reason.

02:22:04.860 That's reasonable, but there is...

02:22:06.440 I think the communist movement is way more powerful than the military industrial complex.

02:22:08.320 But there is a kind of explicit, clear... you don't need this vast conspiracy. If you speak out

02:22:13.900 against Israel, AIPAC and the Zionist lobby, openly, it's not in secret, they openly go after

02:22:19.880 you and try to destroy your life. 0.95

02:22:21.280 Yes, but this is true for every lobby, and there's very big lobbies too.

02:22:24.060 Hold on, that's not true. If you speak against Turkey, or if you even speak against Saudi Arabia,

02:22:28.760 the consequences and the repercussions are far less severe than if you do it against Israel.

02:22:33.300 And this has more to do with American generalized foreign policy and conquest than just a single

02:22:38.640 country like Israel. Israel being a strategic location for the US set up safe operations

02:22:43.660 because they want to invade Iran. Securing Iraq and Afghanistan was very, very, very, very difficult. 0.72

02:22:48.960 So why do we want to invade Iran, to be clear?

02:22:51.300 Well, there's a long, long history of the plans the US has, particularly if you look at...

02:22:56.720 Is it the communists who want to invade Iran?

02:22:59.120 I don't know what you would call it, who wants to invade Iran. The American empirical

02:23:02.820 liberal, you know what, I think the liberal economic order is probably...

02:23:07.160 Are communists in charge of that order?

02:23:09.900 The liberal economic order?

02:23:11.020 Yeah, are communists in charge of that order?

02:23:12.680 I would not know.

02:23:13.780 Communists are in charge...

02:23:14.760 Let me ask you...

02:23:15.320 There's a huge communist influence in the US State Department.

02:23:17.720 Okay, okay, then why do we want to invade Iran?

02:23:19.740 Then why do we want to invade Iran?

02:23:21.160 I don't know who wants to invade Iran.

02:23:22.680 The United States.

02:23:23.260 It's very clear we want to invade Iran. 0.99

02:23:25.060 If communists are in power, why do we want to invade Iran?

02:23:28.580 Iran... 0.88

02:23:29.020 If communists are serving Iran, why don't we make peace with Iran instead of going 0.94

02:23:33.200 to war against them?

02:23:33.900 This is why we have a nuclear deal with Iran.

02:23:35.880 This is why Biden just gave them $7 billion.

02:23:38.340 Do you think that the reason we have a nuclear...

02:23:40.580 Look, this has just been revealed that there's a major Iranian influence operation in Washington

02:23:45.800 that has been talked about in numerous newspapers.

02:23:48.360 I'm going to press X to doubt.

02:23:49.460 They're in the department.

02:23:50.500 Pressing X to doubt.

02:23:51.380 So the argument would be that communist elements in the US do not want to go to war with Iran

02:23:58.460 and American imperial interests or the liberal economic order interests, international, would

02:24:02.840 want to go to war with Iran. 0.64

02:24:03.360 So who's in power?

02:24:04.900 Currently, and for the longest time, it has been the liberal economic order of powers.

02:24:07.860 So it's not the communists.

02:24:09.100 No, no, no.

02:24:09.400 Yeah, I would not argue that communists run the entirety of the country.

02:24:12.060 I think it's kind of delusional.

02:24:13.020 No, they don't run the entirety, but they're the most influential group in America.

02:24:16.320 And yet we want to go to war with Iran and communists don't. 0.71

02:24:19.320 Yeah, but influential does not mean in control.

02:24:20.920 But he's saying that they control the American political system.

02:24:25.320 They control the policy direction of the Democratic Party.

02:24:28.440 But the Democrats, the only reason we had that nuclear deal with Iran was because we

02:24:33.500 were pursuing a strategy of, A, allying with the reformist factions in Iran, which were

02:24:38.280 more pro-European, more pro-Western, and this is the most important thing, they didn't want

02:24:43.180 to economically couple with China.

02:24:45.140 We did it to prevent Iran from integrating with China, which they have already done, which 0.99

02:24:50.060 is why Joe Biden is not actually going back to the table with that deal, because it's

02:24:55.940 not possible.

02:24:56.720 Raisi, who's a hardliner, is in power.

02:24:59.140 The reformist Rouhani is no longer in power.

02:25:01.540 So we're not pursuing that strategy anymore.

02:25:03.440 This all is factional.

02:25:04.100 Look, the mullahs are basically, they're all trained in Patrice Lumumba's school in Moscow. 0.99

02:25:09.380 Iran is a puppet of Moscow. 0.97

02:25:10.900 You're saying the mullahs who are from the Iranian countryside were trained in Moscow?

02:25:14.960 Absolutely.

02:25:15.520 Patrice Lumumba's school in Moscow.

02:25:17.040 Was Khomeini, was Ayatollah Khomeini trained in Moscow?

02:25:19.680 No, but several people around him were.

02:25:21.020 Was Ali Khamenei the current Supreme Leader?

02:25:23.000 I'm not sure.

02:25:23.580 I could check that out.

02:25:24.580 He wasn't.

02:25:25.160 I'll just give you the answer.

02:25:26.240 He wasn't.

02:25:26.520 Well, I can know many of the current leaders are.

02:25:29.260 But the reason we have a nuclear deal with Iran, I can provide you a list.

02:25:33.360 I can talk to my friend.

02:25:35.440 Okay.

02:25:35.960 I'd be interested in that list.

02:25:36.940 I can provide you a list.

02:25:38.220 Because Iran did not pursue a pro-Soviet policy.

02:25:41.840 Iran has always been a puppet of Russia, right from the revolution. 0.96

02:25:47.260 The Iranian Communist Party, the two-day party.

02:25:49.120 Then why did they ban the Communist Party in Iran?

02:25:51.060 Because once they had taken power, Russia wanted an Islamic state. 0.51

02:25:55.280 Why?

02:25:56.460 Because it was useful to them to have an Islamic state creating mayhem in the Middle East rather than their hands. 1.00

02:26:04.320 Was it all part of the Soviet plan to dissolve itself too?

02:26:07.360 Or what was that?

02:26:08.320 Well, the Soviet plan, I think, was a really strategic-

02:26:10.200 Now, if you watch The Simpsons, there's that joke where he's like,

02:26:14.540 that's just what we wanted you to think.

02:26:15.800 Hit the button.

02:26:16.380 And then the Soviet Union comes back. 0.89

02:26:17.740 Yeah.

02:26:18.120 If you say yourself, Russia still has communist forms.

02:26:24.820 The party, the Communist Party.

02:26:26.220 That's what I'm referring to.

02:26:26.600 No, no.

02:26:27.240 The whole society-

02:26:28.680 The infrastructure is still from the Soviet Union.

02:26:30.680 You know, in the Donetsk and Luhansk, they are now people's republics.

02:26:35.080 They've got Soviet iconography.

02:26:37.280 I agree.

02:26:37.680 They're flying Russian, all hammer and sickle flags. 0.98

02:26:41.600 So, they are allied to China, which is a communist power.

02:26:44.880 They're allied to Cuba.

02:26:45.880 No, the legacy's there, I agree.

02:26:47.180 Yeah, it's still there.

02:26:48.360 But how do they regard people like Gorbachev and the dissolution of the Soviet Union?

02:26:53.560 Did they say that was all part of the plan?

02:26:55.580 Yeah, it was.

02:26:56.480 So, it was really a strategic project, but the same people in power, the Soloviki, the

02:27:02.020 intelligence services who are running things under Gorbachev, are still there today.

02:27:07.360 They're still-

02:27:08.240 But the KGB was kind of opposed to Gorbachev.

02:27:10.980 They tried to get rid of Gorbachev in that hardliner coup in 1990, I believe.

02:27:15.820 Under Khrushchev, I know that.

02:27:17.960 But Putin himself says that the dissolution of the Soviet Union was a tragedy and was

02:27:23.420 a mistake.

02:27:24.300 Absolutely.

02:27:24.480 So, how can you say that it was the plan of the Soviet Union to dissolve itself?

02:27:28.020 It was a strategic retreat.

02:27:29.880 They were under huge pressure.

02:27:31.460 What created that retreat specifically?

02:27:34.300 Well, they were under huge pressure from the West, economically.

02:27:37.260 How?

02:27:37.500 And internal-

02:27:38.600 But I thought the West was controlled by communists.

02:27:42.060 We're talking under Reagan here, which was a little bit different.

02:27:45.880 So, Reagan got rid of all the communists in control, to be clear?

02:27:49.660 No, no, not all of it, but he had a major impact, just like Trump had a major impact

02:27:54.140 on foreign policy.

02:27:55.340 So, you think-

02:27:55.880 But when the Democrats are in power, the communist foreign policy pretty much is in

02:28:00.020 So, would you say that Reagan was this independent populist, not beholden to the interests of

02:28:05.300 the oligarchical elites?

02:28:06.720 I'd say he had more independence than most American presidents, just as Trump had more.

02:28:11.580 I'm not saying totally.

02:28:12.760 He still had George Bush on as VP, but he was more independent and stronger against communism

02:28:20.940 than any other American president.

02:28:22.620 So, you don't believe that anti-communism was a real policy of the deep state after the

02:28:27.800 Cold War?

02:28:29.180 It was in some aspects.

02:28:31.660 Why did we launder money to fund fascist, neo-Nazi, anti-communist mercenaries in Africa,

02:28:38.440 death squads in Latin America, the Greek military junta?

02:28:40.760 I don't regard Savimbi as a fascist.

02:28:44.560 Well, but we did fund anti-communist fascists, to be clear, throughout the developing world.

02:28:50.120 I think if we helped fund the genocide in Indonesia- 0.72

02:28:53.420 No, we're just like the Soviets-

02:28:54.980 I think this is missing a big picture here.

02:28:57.740 Look, the people who control systems don't care what you call it.

02:29:02.200 The United States is going to fund whatever they want to fund to remain in power, be it

02:29:05.800 communism or otherwise.

02:29:06.580 Same is true for the Soviets and China.

02:29:09.500 I just don't agree that it makes sense that communists, as opposed to the people who actually

02:29:14.240 control the means of life, are in power.

02:29:16.960 I just don't agree with that.

02:29:18.220 Well, why have we got Obamacare?

02:29:20.400 Why have we got a new-

02:29:21.140 We have Obamacare.

02:29:21.880 If you want to read, if you want to know what the Democrats are going to do tomorrow, read

02:29:25.720 the communist press today.

02:29:27.460 Because they were talking about socialized health care for years.

02:29:31.600 They got it implemented through Physicians for a National Health Program.

02:29:35.340 I disagree, though.

02:29:36.260 But it got it implemented through the-

02:29:37.160 But Bernie came out opposing the Obamacare system and wanted to implement a single player.

02:29:40.880 Yeah, because it wasn't strong enough.

02:29:42.840 It was an interim step.

02:29:43.880 Here's the question.

02:29:44.520 It was an interim step.

02:29:45.040 I do agree that Obama was a popular candidate.

02:29:48.880 He was a people's choice.

02:29:50.180 I do think that in 2008.

02:29:51.840 But then what happened?

02:29:52.900 He got into power.

02:29:53.800 And what did he do?

02:29:54.820 Instead of fighting, he compromised.

02:29:56.980 And Obamacare was that compromise.

02:29:58.860 Yeah, exactly.

02:29:59.560 But it was a step towards socialism.

02:30:01.860 So it's incremental.

02:30:02.820 You take what you can get.

02:30:04.560 But that was a grassroots movement.

02:30:07.600 A grassroots movement completely orchestrated by Democratic Socialists of America and CPUSA.

02:30:12.840 But the DSA didn't start gaining traction until after Bernie repopulized the term.

02:30:17.740 No, no.

02:30:17.760 They were heavily involved in the Democratic Party.

02:30:20.400 Look at the membership of DSA pre-2016.

02:30:23.180 It was about 2026.

02:30:24.360 In the period where they had a lot of influence, about 84 to 90, their membership was about 12,000.

02:30:30.540 Lenin took over the Soviet Russia with 2,000 people.

02:30:34.040 The numbers are irrelevant.

02:30:36.720 It is the influence.

02:30:38.080 They took over the labor unions in 1994.

02:30:41.780 That is proven fact.

02:30:44.220 They removed the anti-communist clause from the AFL-CO's constitution.

02:30:49.380 The old 60s communists came flooding in.

02:30:51.680 Every major labor union in the country now is controlled by Marxists and communists and Leninists.

02:30:57.660 And they dictate the policies of the Democratic Party.

02:31:00.220 I disagree.

02:31:00.660 I think you're conflating progressives, which is preceding the-

02:31:04.400 No, I'm talking Marxist and Marxist-

02:31:06.220 Wait, but hold on.

02:31:07.100 But Democratic politicians since the 40s who were not communists, who were not Marxists,

02:31:12.880 drawing from the legacy of the progressive movement in the U.S., they had nothing to do with Marxism.

02:31:17.540 They had nothing to do with the CPUSA.

02:31:19.220 And they believed in universal health care, right?

02:31:21.880 No, that's not true.

02:31:22.720 I'm just trying to say, yes, Obama did draw a new platform because of overwhelming dissatisfaction with the hegemonic Democrat and Republican positions.

02:31:33.740 Remember, he was running against Hillary Clinton, a mainstream Democrat, in 2008.

02:31:37.320 She is not a mainstream Democrat.

02:31:38.620 Well, at the time, she was compared to him, right?

02:31:41.440 So, yes, there was a lot of new ideas Obama brought to the table.

02:31:44.740 But as we see, all of those ideas went into the dumpster.

02:31:47.940 All of those ideas come out of the Marxist movement.

02:31:50.740 Open borders.

02:31:51.300 Not true.

02:31:52.220 Absolutely.

02:31:52.920 Open borders is rejected.

02:31:54.320 That came to Aliso Medina, a Marxist, who changed the AFL-CIO's policy in 2000 at their conference in Los Angeles-

02:32:01.640 Hold on.

02:32:01.980 ... from anti-illegal immigration to pro-illegal immigration.

02:32:05.680 But concretely, that meant-

02:32:07.580 Obamacare was completely 100% a Marxist policy.

02:32:10.680 But hold on, hold on.

02:32:11.720 That doesn't mean that they're the ones who created open borders.

02:32:14.720 The people who created open borders was the capitalist class.

02:32:17.940 It was the communists who got the Democrats to flip their policy from opposing illegal immigration to supporting it.

02:32:26.780 Okay, did illegal immigration accelerate or decrease under George W. Bush?

02:32:32.380 I'm sorry, hold on.

02:32:33.280 The CPUSA is for open borders.

02:32:34.800 I went to their website.

02:32:35.440 No, no, no.

02:32:35.860 Hold on, hold on.

02:32:36.780 To be clear.

02:32:37.760 Yes, the CPUSA is everything the Democrats believe in, the CPUSA does.

02:32:42.100 But I reject the view that the open borders policy originates with the CPUSA and the DSA.

02:32:48.740 Look, there's two constituencies for illegal immigration. 0.91

02:32:51.680 There is the Chamber of Commerce element who wants cheap labor.

02:32:54.700 There's the left-wing Democrat element who wants a revolutionary base and a massive increase of votes for the Democrats.

02:33:01.680 So which one do you think is more powerful?

02:33:03.300 Oh, absolutely, the communists.

02:33:05.440 You know, this is massive.

02:33:06.260 That makes no sense.

02:33:07.120 There was always an illegal immigration problem.

02:33:09.860 Let me ask you a question.

02:33:10.600 You know, Eisenhower deported three million of them.

02:33:14.960 It crept up. 0.99

02:33:15.820 Reagan stupidly put an amnesty in for them. 1.00

02:33:18.500 Was he a communist? 1.00

02:33:19.640 No, but he just did a stupid thing. 1.00

02:33:22.080 Why did he do it? 1.00

02:33:23.040 Probably responding to business pressure.

02:33:24.860 Well, like, here's a question for you.

02:33:26.300 But also the left.

02:33:28.380 Why is it?

02:33:29.080 But it is massively accelerated.

02:33:31.560 Nobody can deny that illegal immigration massively accelerated under Obama, then even more under Biden.

02:33:37.880 And under George W.

02:33:38.400 That's right.

02:33:38.940 Way, way more than George W.

02:33:40.860 But of course, and so the issue is, the issue particularly for me and what I see is,

02:33:44.920 I'm not going to say to argue communists are controlling everything,

02:33:48.000 but certainly their whims are more likely to be met, especially as time progresses.

02:33:52.120 I'll give you an example.

02:33:52.940 Yeah, we're looking at Enrique Tarrio, who's they call him a fascist,

02:33:56.920 who was not even in D.C. getting 22 years in prison for a thing he wasn't at.

02:34:00.600 Why?

02:34:00.780 Because he posted a tweet, not a tweet.

02:34:02.600 It was it was a it was a it was a getter post or something like that or a parlor post.

02:34:06.960 Meanwhile, the people who are outside the White House who firebombed it of leftist persuasion,

02:34:10.920 the people outside of the federal buildings, very little is done to curtail any of that.

02:34:16.020 So there is a there is this thing we've been seeing where I can go to a journalist we have on the show

02:34:20.940 and I say, why do you think it is that the feds are not going so heavily after the people who

02:34:24.800 firebombed the White House on 529?

02:34:26.180 And he goes, the what?

02:34:27.440 Yeah, doesn't even know what happened.

02:34:28.900 And then we actually do see this right now in all of our media institutions.

02:34:33.660 Overt Marxist influences is prevalent.

02:34:36.140 So I worked for numerous media organizations and we hear it all the time.

02:34:39.920 People who are classically liberal, constitutionally Republican,

02:34:42.460 or even people who are like offright nationalist hide their views and people who are overtly

02:34:48.860 communist proudly stated and they even have sickle and hammer catches unless they're like

02:34:53.760 me or Jackson, and in which case they're censored from everything.

02:34:57.040 So there's a reason for that.

02:34:58.140 OK, communists who completely tow the line of the liberal hegemony and I agree they're good 0.99

02:35:03.460 sellouts.

02:35:04.000 They're effective at being sellouts.

02:35:05.780 But yes, as long as you tow the line of liberal hegemony, you can be a neo-Nazi, as in the case

02:35:11.080 of Ukraine, you can call yourself a communist, you can call yourself an anarchist, you can

02:35:15.980 call yourself literally whatever you want, and nothing bad will happen to you.

02:35:19.560 If you're critical of our policy with regard to Ukraine, which, by the way, internationally

02:35:23.840 is the norm for communists, just not in America, I guess, then you're also going to be censored

02:35:28.240 and under attack.

02:35:29.260 There's someone-

02:35:29.640 Or critical of Israel and a communist.

02:35:31.300 Listen, there's someone who I don't even agree with, right?

02:35:33.520 His name is Second Thought.

02:35:34.680 He has a YouTube channel.

02:35:36.000 And we're like enemies, right?

02:35:37.840 But even he is now starting to get deplatformed from, I forget which subscription service

02:35:43.500 it is, because of his views on wars and because of his views on history and things like that.

02:35:49.220 And look, if I go to academia as a Stalinist, OK, it's not going to be pretty for me.

02:35:54.000 If I go to academia as a intersectional post-Marxist, you know, transgender theorist, everything

02:36:00.580 will be fine because it's all about submission to the Democratic Party.

02:36:03.800 Now, what I do agree with is that the Democratic Party has more hegemony than the Republican

02:36:09.680 Party.

02:36:10.340 The Democratic Party controls the institutions.

02:36:12.640 They control the media.

02:36:13.660 They control the culture. 0.98

02:36:15.380 The Republicans, they're obviously corrupt and funded by lobbyists and stuff.

02:36:19.220 But what they do is kind of starting to more capture dissent. 0.89

02:36:22.960 Right.

02:36:23.240 The Democratic Party has more hegemony.

02:36:27.360 The unions control them and the communists control them.

02:36:29.940 You and Jackson are a very tiny subset of the communist movement.

02:36:35.620 Very tiny subset.

02:36:36.900 But that's the question.

02:36:37.800 The communist movement of this country is probably, you know, two or three hundred thousand strong.

02:36:43.040 I disagree.

02:36:43.840 You know, if you bring all the people, if you bring DSA into it, Freedom Road, Party for

02:36:48.380 Socialism.

02:36:48.620 Freedom Road is tiny.

02:36:49.800 I don't know.

02:36:50.260 But let's just make this distinction.

02:36:52.840 Freedom Road organized all the George Floyd rights all over the country.

02:36:55.700 And let's refer to the hierarchical, more influential communist or Marxist.

02:37:03.740 Let's call it something else.

02:37:04.760 Well, woke left.

02:37:05.640 Well, here's the thing.

02:37:06.680 Yeah, I mean, I kind of agree with that.

02:37:08.420 But my one problem is it's like the issue of the cause and effect.

02:37:11.720 Because let's ask a simple question.

02:37:13.460 You know, you don't have to agree with metaphysical materialism. 0.99

02:37:16.620 But who is funding all this shit? 0.99

02:37:19.400 Where does the money come from? 1.00

02:37:20.420 For example, me and Jackson, the reason we have a hard time and they have an easy time

02:37:25.340 is because billionaires fund these people, right?

02:37:28.300 And if billionaires fund you, you obviously have to conform to what billionaires want you

02:37:33.740 to say and want you to implement, right?

02:37:35.640 We, me and Jackson, don't do that.

02:37:37.260 So we have a harder time.

02:37:38.160 So my question to you is, if this is a communist movement, where does the communist money come

02:37:43.700 from?

02:37:44.060 It comes through the Democracy Alliance, which is Steve Phillips, which is Tom Steyer.

02:37:48.760 They are funding the left to the tune of billions of dollars.

02:37:52.140 So you're saying there's secret communist billionaires?

02:37:54.080 There are different kinds of communists.

02:37:55.400 Absolutely, absolutely there are.

02:37:57.140 Many, many.

02:37:58.260 You, you, you, look, Steve Phillips, for instance.

02:38:00.880 Is George Soros one of them?

02:38:02.580 George Soros is a supporter and funder of the left.

02:38:06.000 Is he a communist?

02:38:07.300 This is what I'll say.

02:38:08.740 George Soros was a little Jewish boy in Hungary during World War II.

02:38:12.400 Yeah.

02:38:12.600 His father fostered him out to a Catholic family, I believe, to protect him from the Nazis.

02:38:17.920 He used to go around confiscating Jewish properties with his step, with his foster father.

02:38:24.380 He was effectively working with the kapos. 0.99

02:38:26.840 I'm aware.

02:38:27.960 So after World War II, the Soviet Red Army took over Hungary and they were hanging Nazi collaborators

02:38:34.060 or turning them to work for them.

02:38:36.440 George Soros was allowed to leave Soviet-occupied Hungary, travel through Soviet-occupied Austria out to the west.

02:38:45.000 How would someone who'd worked with a Nazi collaborator be allowed to do that had they not made a deal with the authorities?

02:38:50.920 There's one missing piece of that puzzle.

02:38:54.020 Why did George Soros use his money to participate in the color revolution, the springtime of peoples of the 80s, 0.85

02:39:01.120 which took down the communist states of the Warsaw Pact?

02:39:04.520 No, what it did was set up civil institutions in those places to preserve socialist thought.

02:39:11.220 We have this illusion with George Soros and his Open Societies Institute that he fought communism in Eastern Europe.

02:39:18.200 He set up institutions which were then colonized by socialists to keep the socialist dream alive.

02:39:24.860 In this country and everywhere around the world, he supported the left everywhere you go.

02:39:29.840 So I think there's this kind of gap of terminology because I want to give you my perspective.

02:39:33.560 If I'm a Romanian factory worker, and socialism for me means I have a job, there's infrastructure, there's a source of living for me,

02:39:42.780 I can have some kind of family, the baseline of my needs are met, and that's the socialist system,

02:39:47.960 and then suddenly all of that is overthrown, and there's a neoliberal hellscape where my daughters are being trafficked into sex trafficking, 0.98

02:39:54.960 everything becomes privatized, I can't afford anything, I can't get by with any job, I have to move and migrate out.

02:40:01.820 I mean, you can say, oh, that's also, so that's socialist thought, that's also socialism.

02:40:06.840 Well, like, in content, materially speaking, why would you call that the same thing?

02:40:12.160 It's completely different.

02:40:13.020 But I think we've already made this point, it's that there are people who feel there's a means, that the ends justify the means,

02:40:20.040 and therefore there are people who are communists who want this ideal version of communists to be implemented,

02:40:24.540 that are utilizing the destruction of society and the working class to create pressure, 0.99

02:40:28.140 which pushes them into a left or right position.

02:40:31.220 But that's not what's happening.

02:40:33.160 But real communism is not about sharing the wealth or building a great society.

02:40:37.140 Real communism is centralizing all wealth and all power in a very few hands.

02:40:41.920 But Marxism stuff is just fluff.

02:40:44.940 But yes, yes, yes, but hold on, my point is, and that may be what we see practically,

02:40:49.180 but even for you with a more idealistic version of a working system between people.

02:40:53.360 I don't think it's idealistic.

02:40:54.640 I think on the concept, yeah.

02:40:55.000 I'm saying an ideal version of communism in your mind.

02:40:57.960 It's not ideal, it's the real experience.

02:40:59.980 Okay, so there's someone who says, in order to get from here to the real experience,

02:41:04.200 we have to break down the capitalist structures to create this.

02:41:09.140 There's only one way to do it.

02:41:10.560 You have to, step by step, erode and destroy people's lives in the process.

02:41:14.160 So Mao and North Korea did not need to fund LGBT to have communism in Korea or China. 0.91

02:41:19.700 No, not in those existing, those and six, you know.

02:41:23.160 But they did need a cultural revolution and a disruptive.

02:41:25.900 But the cultural revolution was not like overthrowing basic, like, sexual norms and basic.

02:41:33.020 No, it was whatever needed to destroy the social system.

02:41:35.860 No, no, they were in power.

02:41:37.540 They just wanted to use the youth to eradicate former bourgeois concepts to create a new man.

02:41:44.320 No.

02:41:44.540 Just like Pol Pot did in Cambodia, where they killed a third of the population.

02:41:47.880 The Red Guards targeted Communist Party bosses and leaders more than anyone else.

02:41:51.940 Well, those who weren't sufficiently enthusiastic, they did.

02:41:56.320 No, it was because, this is the actual reason, China imported initially its system from the Soviets,

02:42:02.860 which was foreign imported, and therefore you had a bureaucracy within China, not in touch with the masses.

02:42:08.520 So the cultural revolution was launched in order to actually make socialism in China Chinese in content 0.82

02:42:15.280 and actually humble these bosses and bureaucrats and submit them to a popular will.

02:42:19.540 No, submit them to the absolute rule of those in power.

02:42:23.720 Which was so.

02:42:24.220 This is always, communists always put this idealistic spin on tyranny.

02:42:28.660 Well, we did it in the name of the people.

02:42:30.720 We had to destroy these bourgeois elements.

02:42:33.860 We had to destroy those who weren't sufficiently revolutionary.

02:42:39.200 It is all about naked power.

02:42:42.180 Revolution is about-

02:42:43.340 Whose power?

02:42:44.040 I agree.

02:42:44.600 The leadership of the Communist Party.

02:42:46.460 But what did that amount to?

02:42:47.660 But as Dong Ping Han writes in his book, that power concretely amounted to increased autonomy

02:42:53.120 and self-governance of the Chinese peasants. 0.99

02:42:55.120 Absolute garbage. 0.99

02:42:56.260 Okay, well, I implore you to read the book. 0.98

02:42:58.080 It resulted in the complete control over all aspects of life by the CCP.

02:43:03.120 The historical facts disagree.

02:43:05.500 Okay, now, gentlemen.

02:43:06.620 We unfortunately have gone a half hour over, because I think we did have a great conversation.

02:43:11.360 So, half an hour over, I think we're unfortunately going to have to line things down.

02:43:14.800 Just say where people can go.

02:43:16.460 Absolutely, absolutely.

02:43:17.300 Because I'm here for a reason, too.

02:43:18.980 One of the other reasons.

02:43:20.440 Look, if you want to know the real Marxist infiltration of the government, go to TrevorLoudon.com.

02:43:26.640 Security risk senators, 30 senators exposed.

02:43:30.420 House Un-Americans, I talk about 100 U.S. Congress members working for the communist movement or radical

02:43:36.460 movements, and you've got to see Enemies Within the Church, which is all about the Marxist origins 0.53

02:43:43.820 of the woke church.

02:43:45.140 You've got to see Enemies Within the Church, the Marxist origins of the woke church, all 0.91

02:43:49.820 available.

02:43:50.540 Signed copies, TrevorLoudon.com.

02:43:53.500 Haz, do you want to shout anything out?

02:43:54.540 I think I'll just say, you know, infrared.gg.

02:43:57.600 It's where we've centralized in proper communist fashion.

02:44:01.660 All of our media, we have Substacks writings, we have our YouTube, we have our live streaming,

02:44:08.100 which is kick.com slash infrared, where I live stream.

02:44:11.120 Also, my Twitter, at InfraHaz, is also where I share a lot of my writings and stuff.

02:44:17.340 And be on the lookout for an upcoming book that's going to be coming out within the next

02:44:21.480 few months.

02:44:22.800 And yeah, just infrared.gg, I guess.

02:44:25.820 All right, well, I certainly don't think we can hash out the entirety of the circumstances

02:44:29.600 in a couple hours, but gentlemen, thank you for coming.

02:44:31.900 I think this was an absolute blast.

02:44:33.300 I really do appreciate it.

02:44:34.220 Thank you.

02:44:34.600 For everybody who's watching, absolutely.

02:44:36.860 Make sure you subscribe to Tenet.

02:44:38.480 Subscribe to this channel.

02:44:39.600 New channel, awesome stuff coming up.

02:44:41.280 If you check out the videos, you can see Lauren Southern, you can see Matt Christensen, you

02:44:44.300 can see Benny Johnson, Dave Rubin.

02:44:45.660 It's going to be a blast.

02:44:46.560 Really excited to bring this show to Tenet.

02:44:49.200 We've got more coming next week.

02:44:50.580 Next week will be absolutely incredible.

02:44:52.160 I hope to see you there.

02:44:53.160 Thanks for hanging out, and we'll see y'all next time.

02:44:55.820 We'll see you there.

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - November 10, 2023

The Culture War #37 - MAGA Communism VS Classical Liberalism w⧸Haz Al-din & Trevor Loudon

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