The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #59 Indoctrination in Schools & School Choice w⧸ Christopher Stewart & Corey DeAngelis

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00:00:57.060 Hey, it's working. All right. Well, it's no secret that I think schools are garbage. And it's not my

00:01:04.560 opinion. It's actually a fact. And it's a fact that for 40 years, the phrase school sucks has

00:01:10.200 existed. And probably longer than 40 years. I think there's a problem with how we've

00:01:15.320 institutionalized and industrialized learning in this country. But that's my bias. Just put it right

00:01:21.800 out there. I think right now there's a big controversy and obviously a big debate over

00:01:25.640 indoctrination in schools and the importance of homeschooling or school choice. So we're

00:01:29.520 going to talk about this and maybe we can save the world. So we've got a couple of guests

00:01:32.640 who would like to introduce themselves first. Chris, Corey.

00:01:37.760 I'm Chris Stewart. I'm known as Citizen Stewart Online on Twitter and other places. I also run

00:01:45.560 a non-profit, education non-profit that focuses on everything you just talked about. I might disagree

00:01:51.600 with a little bit of what you just said, but... Well, then you're wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't

00:01:56.360 know. Hey, Corey. Corey DeAngelis. I'm at DeAngelisCorey on X, formerly Twitter. I have a new book

00:02:03.280 coming out called The Parent Revolution, available at Amazon, basically everywhere else. And I fight

00:02:09.060 to fund students, not systems, what most people call school choice. So school sucks, yes or no?

00:02:15.780 It depends on the environment. That's why I argue for school choice.

00:02:18.880 Sir, I asked you a yes or no question. It is my time. I'm kidding.

00:02:23.080 In general, I would say a lot of people aren't happy with going to school. Yeah, so school sucks.

00:02:28.820 What do you think? You think school sucks?

00:02:30.220 No.

00:02:30.600 No, you like school?

00:02:31.700 I don't like school myself, but I have multiple kids that have been through the system. They're

00:02:35.100 all very different and they've all gotten something out of the same building. And I think the majority

00:02:39.600 of people that you will name actually are public school educated. Majority of people that have done

00:02:43.340 anything great in the United States, like 99% of them came out of public schools. So you're smart

00:02:48.580 people, you're not so smart people, and you're struggling people.

00:02:51.220 That's because of the one-size-fits-all monopoly that we have today that the government has on

00:02:57.960 K-12 education. We're forced to pay for the school that we're assigned to through property and other

00:03:03.240 types of tax revenues. And basically, 90% of the K-12 education market is run by the government-run

00:03:11.460 schools. And Milton Friedman put it best a long time ago when he said, just imagine if the government

00:03:16.900 were going around giving away cars for free that cost $500,000 to make. It would be astonishing if

00:03:25.260 any private car dealers even existed at all. It could be because they would have to compete against

00:03:32.040 a quote-unquote free good that costs a lot of money. That's basically what we have with the

00:03:36.260 government school system today.

00:03:37.760 Well, let's identify the problem first, because I think there's probably a disagreement on what the

00:03:42.040 issues we're facing are. And so, Chris, what do you think? There's obviously problems with schools,

00:03:48.340 right?

00:03:49.940 I mean, it depends on who you ask in that one. Let me just tell you a quick story. So I have two kids

00:03:53.940 that are in high school right now. I didn't do well in high school. Actually, my high school,

00:03:57.440 I was in a different school every year, so my school career sucked. But with my first kid,

00:04:01.440 I was pretty militant. You're going to learn. So we did a lot of different things with that first kid.

00:04:05.500 But right now, I have two kids in high school. And in the high school they're in,

00:04:08.580 it looks like a community college. They have a world-class pool. You could do lacrosse, soccer,

00:04:13.980 hockey, basketball, football, keep going down the list, right? They have a machine shop that

00:04:19.520 actually rivals any union machine shop in the area, right? They have a lathe machine and a whole,

00:04:25.060 like you go in there, you think it's an industrial facility. So I can send several different kids

00:04:29.820 through that one high school, and they could go different directions when they get in the building.

00:04:33.240 They have a world-class theater. This is a rural high school, right? My kid plays football

00:04:39.540 on the same team that his grandfather played on in 1952. Oh, that's cool. When you go to the

00:04:44.680 football games on Friday nights and you see older people wearing the jacket still, you can't tell

00:04:50.640 them. Is it a Letterman jacket or whatever? Well, they're from different eras too. You might bring

00:04:55.260 your grandfather. You might bring your dad or whatever. But on a Friday night on this beautiful

00:05:01.360 football field, the lights are on. They're playing ACDC as the kids run and rush the field,

00:05:07.400 right? You can't tell anybody that this is a government school that's terrible and blah,

00:05:12.020 blah, blah, and all that. They don't want to hear that, right? They're having a great time.

00:05:15.560 But the truth hurts, right? Because the government does run the schools. They're federally funded and

00:05:20.360 influenced by the federal government. But to be more direct, they are run by local government

00:05:25.840 school boards, basically. And they're regulated heavily by the government. But that's not the

00:05:32.120 point I wanted to bring up really at all. But what I heard from what you were talking about, Chris,

00:05:36.480 is something that I probably agree with, that there are some good public schools out there,

00:05:39.840 that a lot of families do have access to schools that might be objectively overperforming

00:05:46.820 schools or schools that are doing a good job for whatever reason, based on whatever metric you

00:05:49.900 want to use. And my response to that is, if you like your public school, you can keep your public

00:05:54.040 school. But for real this time, unlike with your doctor, with school choice, you can still choose

00:05:58.060 that. I don't want to take that option away. But if that's not the best fit for you, if the school

00:06:03.380 that you're assigned to isn't a high-quality public school, you should be able to take that money

00:06:07.500 to a private school, charter school, or home-based option too.

00:06:10.880 Do you mind saying, I don't want you to reveal the location of what you said.

00:06:14.840 Rural Minnesota. Rural Minnesota. Yeah, I'm in rural Minnesota.

00:06:17.880 You know, so I suppose, you know, I'm very jealous. And what you're saying makes me very

00:06:22.500 communist, in that I think that the people from my neighborhood, by force, because the only way

00:06:29.080 we could have done it, we should have marched into Minnesota and seized that school for the low-income

00:06:33.000 people in Chicago, where I'm from, because we had gang violence shootings. We had abuse.

00:06:39.180 A block from the school, people are hiding guns under cars to shoot and kill each other.

00:06:42.820 So, yeah, I didn't want to be there, so I didn't.

00:06:45.980 And Chicago spends a lot more than Minnesota on average. They spend about $30,000 per student

00:06:50.940 per year. I think the average private school tuition in Chicago is less than $20,000

00:06:54.740 per student per year. There's obviously $50,000 private schools too. I'm just talking about the

00:07:01.420 averages. But just imagine if you could take half or even two-thirds of that money, let's say you

00:07:07.380 could take $20,000 with you to go to a private school if you so choose to do so. That's the only

00:07:12.740 argument I'm really making here today, that we should fund the people as opposed to the buildings,

00:07:16.700 just like we do with higher education with Pell Grants. You can take that money to the public

00:07:20.920 university if you want, or the community college. You could also take that money in the form of a

00:07:25.160 Pell Grant to a private, even religious university. The only argument I'm really wanting to make here

00:07:30.600 today on the show is that if we're going to fund education at the K-12 level, just like we do with

00:07:36.200 higher ed, the funding should be portable, and it should follow the decision of the family, just

00:07:40.900 like we do in pre-K. In pre-K, you had the Head Start program. You can take that money not to an

00:07:47.420 assigned pre-K. You take it to where you want to go. You can even take it to a religious private

00:07:52.660 provider if that was the choice that was best for your kid.

00:07:55.440 Do you disagree, Chris?

00:07:56.400 I used to see all this stuff that he's saying right now.

00:07:58.280 Yeah, so Chris and I actually used to be buddies. I've been on his podcast, he's been on my

00:08:04.160 podcast.

00:08:05.600 But then you had the high ground, and he jumped over you.

00:08:08.100 I got blue-pilled.

00:08:10.100 We started winning on the issue of school choice, and then Chris wanted to jump off ship right as

00:08:16.280 we started being victorious.

00:08:19.000 A couple of things. I'm a bad libertarian, you're a good libertarian. Everything you just said is

00:08:24.660 actually arguing against your own orthodoxy, because the end game for libertarianism is to

00:08:29.540 have no government schools. That's the end game. So you are pushing for a new welfare program right

00:08:34.840 now. You are pushing for-

00:08:36.660 What does that make the public school system? They're spending twice as much per student as

00:08:41.460 an extra-super-duper welfare? I'm arguing for incremental-

00:08:44.540 You're arguing against your own orthodoxy. We are both libertarians. I'm a bad one. You're a good

00:08:48.840 one, right? You are actually a heterodox libertarian. You're a narco-capitalist. That means your end game

00:08:56.500 should be no government schools. So any program that you- Wait, wait, let me finish.

00:09:00.940 All right, I'll let you finish. Any program that you propose that adds a single dollar to the budget,

00:09:06.700 expands the government largest by a single dime is un-libertarian. And which you are proving right

00:09:14.300 now, you are now giving educational welfare to a group of people that never had it.

00:09:18.700 So are you saying abolish the Department of Education and public schooling?

00:09:21.260 I'm a bad libertarian. He's a good one.

00:09:24.220 I'm arguing that you can have a philosophical view of what the world ought to look like,

00:09:28.860 your North Star, your utopia as a libertarian, but also understand that we live in a society

00:09:34.780 where we have a certain layout for the government-run school system today, where we're forced to pay for

00:09:41.100 these schools. According to the National Center for Education Statistics, we spend about $19,999

00:09:47.500 per student per year. It's probably a lot higher now. That was from 2021, the latest data available,

00:09:52.780 an amount that has increased by about 160% after adjusting for inflation since 1970. And

00:10:01.020 you can still maintain your libertarian beliefs and consistency while saying that it would be an

00:10:07.660 incremental improvement to allow a portion of that funding while saving taxpayer money,

00:10:13.740 because 68 of 73 studies of private school choice programs have found that they save taxpayer dollars,

00:10:19.020 including in Arizona, for example, despite Katie Hobbs, the hypocrite governor there who sent her own

00:10:25.100 kid to, who went to private school herself, is now arguing that it's going to blow up the state budget

00:10:30.620 because a lot of people want school choice. She's only looking at the costs, not the benefits.

00:10:35.420 She's using the $7,000 scholarship amount, multiplying it by the number of students and saying,

00:10:40.380 this is going to cost $900 million a year. Well, how much would those same kids cost in the government

00:10:46.620 schools? $1.8 billion. I'd just like to point out, you're both bad libertarians. I'm the only

00:10:51.420 good libertarian. There we go. Nobody's a real libertarian. I want the whole system abolished.

00:10:56.060 Well, that's on his side. That's actually the end game of libertarianism. So this is why what he's

00:11:01.980 proposing right now is welfare. This is educational welfare. It is expanding, actually, the number of

00:11:08.060 people that are receiving money from the government. It's not contracting them.

00:11:11.420 It's a communist. It's adding new people to the government doll. And you talk about Arizona. You

00:11:18.460 say Arizona is like the gold standard. Arizona's cost right now is 1,400% more than they thought it

00:11:26.700 was going to be. It is going to blow up their budgets. An argument that school choice is more

00:11:30.940 popular than they could have ever anticipated is an argument for education. You know why it's

00:11:35.340 not against it? Oh, look, they thought only 10,000 people were going to apply and 100,000

00:11:39.660 people applied. I'm not going to let you get away with this, Corey. That's a great argument.

00:11:41.260 I'm not going to let you get away with this. You know what? Because people love free stuff. If you

00:11:45.740 have a kid already in private school right now, and you're paying full ride, and someone comes to

00:11:50.460 you and says, hey, I'm the government. I'll pay half of that for you. And you've never been in public

00:11:54.860 school. You've been in private school. Your parents are wealthy enough to pay for it. And you're

00:11:59.020 there. And someone comes and says to you, hey, you want some free stuff? Let me pay half of your

00:12:04.060 tuition to go to your private school. Those are new people coming into the system.

00:12:07.420 They're already paying into the system. They're only getting their taxpayer dollars back. And if

00:12:12.460 they are higher income families, if anything, they pay more into the system than the lower

00:12:17.820 income families that are also benefiting from school choice as well. So nobody should be forced

00:12:22.220 to pay twice. I don't care if you already. But you do have to concede that it's welfare.

00:12:26.380 You have to concede that. You have to.

00:12:28.380 Only if you concede that it's double welfare of what we're spending in the government run schools.

00:12:33.340 I'll take the W instead of being stuck with the L where everybody's forced into the government run

00:12:38.060 school system. We got to be able to work in the public confines of the system that we have today

00:12:44.940 and understand incremental wins when we can. We can't just reject every incremental step in the

00:12:50.860 right direction. I can't speak for anything outside of Chicago, but I mean, the public school system.

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00:14:23.660 Chicago is like taking children, beating the... I'll refrain from swearing. Mercilessly beating

00:14:29.980 them. I mean, you have the story where the kid was locked in a room, in a padded room where he

00:14:33.660 crapped his pants because they wouldn't let him out. Well, Tim, and the teachers union boss there

00:14:37.820 knows this. Stacey Davis Gates is the president of the Chicago teachers union. She called school choice

00:14:43.740 racist last year. She said private schools were segregation academies last year. And guess what

00:14:48.540 we found out this year? She sends her own son to a private school. She said it's because the

00:14:53.260 Chicago public schools don't have enough money. They spend about $30,000 per kid. The school

00:14:58.220 she sends her son to has a tuition listed at under $15,000 per year. It's not about money.

00:15:04.140 Chicago is self-segregated as it is. In the traditional system.

00:15:08.540 No, I mean like the population of Chicago has selectively segregated themselves.

00:15:13.740 Which leads to segregation in the government school system.

00:15:16.780 Absolutely. So, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it kind of worries me having, you know, I grew up there.

00:15:23.820 You've got an area that's predominantly Latino. You've got large sections of the city, predominantly

00:15:28.060 black, and then you've got pockets that are predominantly white and people only choose

00:15:32.300 to live next to people who look like them. That's what they do.

00:15:34.220 Italian and Polish and Greek. Yeah. Like, Chicago is one of the only places that I've seen that.

00:15:39.660 Even that granular, it's crazy. Ukrainian village, little Italy. Yep.

00:15:43.260 Like it goes, and then, and then you've got, uh, uh, uh, Southside Irish. Like it, it's not,

00:15:48.140 not even, I don't think it's necessarily predominantly race, but race plays a big role.

00:15:53.340 But it's like, obviously if you speak a certain language, you want to be next to people who speak

00:15:56.220 the same language as you. So then you end up with these, these cultural pockets.

00:16:00.380 I think Illinois is one of the only states where we actually went backwards on school choice.

00:16:04.460 You can correct me if I'm wrong in the past few years. And they had a low income scholarship

00:16:09.580 program for, for families of, uh, I don't remember what the actual income cutoff was,

00:16:13.980 but it was for lower income families, about 9,000 students using the program. Um, J.B. Pritzker,

00:16:19.580 their governor vowed to get rid of the program when he first ran for office in 2017. What's interesting

00:16:25.500 is that in the midterms in 2022, he answered a candidate survey from a, uh, a local newspaper

00:16:31.740 saying that he actually supported the same program that he vowed to eliminate back in 2017. He did

00:16:37.660 really nothing to save it this year. He answered the Chicago Tribune, telling them that if a bill

00:16:42.940 were to come to his desk, a Democrat saying this, that he would sign it to save the program. He probably

00:16:47.660 knew that it would never make it to his desk, but I just bring that up because I think the political

00:16:52.380 wins on school choice are shifting too. It has been kind of a Republican led movement.

00:16:56.540 Everything you just said is political. Everything you just said, you are offering a political

00:17:02.300 solution to an educational problem. And this is where we really differ. The problem with American

00:17:07.820 public schools is not that you don't have enough choice or that there hasn't been a political

00:17:11.820 decision. It's because that everything that we know about the science of learning, teaching,

00:17:16.300 learning, strong curriculum, data driven instruction, those are the things that make for good

00:17:21.420 outcomes for students, strong outcomes. We know this. We've, we've, this has been proven by research

00:17:25.660 over and over and over again, but you are offering a political decision to give people. This is how

00:17:31.100 crazy this is. This is really where it becomes welfare. Let's go back in time. You and I both have

00:17:36.860 been libertarians for a long time. If someone would have came to us 10 years ago and said, Hey,

00:17:41.500 I want you guys to start a program that's going to give kids free tickets to SeaWorld, uh, free tickets,

00:17:46.860 free money to buy trampolines, to buy new computers, espresso machines, because we think all kids should

00:17:52.380 have access to us. Espresso machines, trampolines, SeaWorld tickets. Guess what they have in the

00:17:56.540 teachers' lounges in the public schools. Don't change the subject. Don't change the subject.

00:17:59.900 But they're already made. Don't change the subject. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

00:18:02.860 Hold on. I think a better analogy would be if 10 years ago you went to someone and said,

00:18:08.220 we're going to give each of you a scud missile because you paid for it.

00:18:10.700 But we weren't paying for it. No, we are. Our tax dollars pay for surface-to-air missiles. I don't

00:18:17.900 know. I don't think we actually, Scott, I think that's a Russian or something. But, uh, imagine the

00:18:22.140 government came to you and said, all right, you're libertarians. You want your tax money back? Well,

00:18:25.340 we still want to buy bombs. So we're going to give each of a grenade. We're going to give each

00:18:27.820 family a grenade. No, you already paid for it. Yeah. You already paid for it. We're just giving

00:18:31.340 you the grenades back. Like, you guys remember government cheese? Yeah. They had a surplus of

00:18:35.420 cheese. What was it from like World War II or something? Some people will swear by it. Some people

00:18:38.540 really love it. In the hood, there are people that swear by that cheese. It's real. It's real.

00:18:44.220 Real quick, government cheese became a slang term for welfare, but it was because the government

00:18:47.740 actually gave people blocks of surplus cheese. Yes. But we don't do it that way anymore, right?

00:18:53.260 No, we do. We still do it. It's just that we gave away all the cheese and now it's still welfare.

00:18:59.660 So my point is, just to what you were saying, you're saying, go to someone and tell them we're

00:19:04.620 going to give you all this free stuff, or every kid deserves an espresso machine. It's like,

00:19:08.380 did I already pay for the espresso machine? Well, you did, so you could not have it.

00:19:11.580 I'm saying something just a little bit different than that, though. I meant if you would have went

00:19:14.460 to a conservative politician 10 years ago and said, I want to start a program. I think American

00:19:19.660 children should have access to SeaWorld, to trampolines, to piano lessons, and all these

00:19:24.380 things. I want to start a new program where we just give families money to buy those things.

00:19:28.620 Yeah, but the tax dollars already paid for it.

00:19:30.540 They would have laughed you out of the room. There's no conservative politician.

00:19:33.820 But the tax dollars already paid for it.

00:19:35.340 It's also about your framing of the issue, Chris. I mean, you could frame it that way,

00:19:39.740 or you could say, here's the money we're already spending in the government school system,

00:19:43.660 $20,000 a kid. We'll give you $10,000 a kid to use on the education that works best for them.

00:19:49.340 You're getting into details about what allowable expenses there are or aren't in the programs.

00:19:54.220 Those are good.

00:19:54.860 My response is, well, wait, the public schools have field trips too. Most of the money is being

00:19:59.500 spent on private school tuition and fees. And if there is fraud that happens in these programs,

00:20:05.100 it tends to be lower than the percentage of fraud in other government programs. They looked at this

00:20:09.340 data in Arizona. I believe it was less than 0.1% fraud rate.

00:20:13.180 But this isn't fraud though, because these are allowable expenses. The trampoline, the coffee maker,

00:20:18.540 all of that, that is legally sanctioned. That's not a fraud. By the rules of the program,

00:20:23.500 you can buy all those things. But I suppose the issue is,

00:20:27.740 again, people have already given the money to the government for this.

00:20:30.300 Yeah, we're getting it back to use how we want.

00:20:33.100 That's not how money works in education. A lot of those people haven't given anything in taxes.

00:20:39.900 It's the wealthy subsidizing the poor. But Chris, you're...

00:20:42.380 I mean, that's how taxes work in the United States.

00:20:43.900 So Chris, you're arguing against ESAs, from what I hear, based on the allowable expenses.

00:20:49.260 So if you're going to go to there, are you okay with vouchers then, which can only be used

00:20:53.100 at private school tuition? So you're nitpicking about, well, some of these programs,

00:20:56.700 they allow you to use the money for field trips and other types. What if we just made it for

00:21:05.180 the pure voucher model that a lot of states do have, where you can only use it for private

00:21:09.260 school tuition? I think we could maybe agree there that, hey, more advantaged families can

00:21:16.300 already afford to pay for private school tuition out of pocket. How about we let a fraction of the

00:21:21.740 funding follow the student and then let other families who want to otherwise be able to afford

00:21:28.060 it send their kids to private school? I think you're framing the problem wrong.

00:21:34.060 And you're offering, because you're framing the problem wrong, you're offering a solution that

00:21:37.900 actually doesn't meet the moment. The moment that we're in right now is that millions of American

00:21:41.580 kids have fallen behind because of COVID, because of the pandemic. What we knew was going to happen

00:21:47.740 was there was going to be a massive American remediation project that was going to be necessary,

00:21:51.820 meaning we're going to have millions of kids. First of all, we have 1 million kids we can't

00:21:54.540 even find right now. We don't even know where they are. Right. Then we have...

00:21:57.660 Good.

00:22:00.060 The government can't keep track of kids. They're escaping.

00:22:02.300 I love kids. So then we have another population of kids that are just so far behind that it's a

00:22:08.140 national security risk in my mind. They have an educational problem. They need to be brought up to speed.

00:22:12.700 They need teaching, learning, curriculum, data-informed instruction, direct instruction.

00:22:17.340 They need learning science. They don't need political decisions that don't lead to better

00:22:21.500 outcomes. And everything that you're proposing right now is shown by research to not work when

00:22:27.420 it comes to achievement, student achievement. That's not true. That's not true. And you know

00:22:31.340 about the... I mean, even Josh Cowen has admitted that the competitive effects studies at least are

00:22:35.020 positive. No, he hasn't.

00:22:36.780 Yes, he has. And I have a video recording of it.

00:22:39.980 I'll show you later. But... Can I just crank the oxygen?

00:22:42.620 Well, we disagree on the problem, right? So I think the problem is that we are assigned

00:22:46.700 to schools based on where we live. That gives those schools monopoly power. Just imagine if

00:22:50.780 you were assigned to your nearest grocery store or restaurant and you couldn't go anywhere else

00:22:54.140 unless you moved houses to be assigned to another restaurant that was run by the government.

00:22:59.580 If they had poisoned food, if they served you expired food, and you had no recourse and couldn't

00:23:04.620 do anything, they would probably just say, well, we need more money. That'll fix all of our problems

00:23:08.700 this time, and it never does.

00:23:09.900 Let me one-up it. And if your kid doesn't eat the poisoned food, they'll come and arrest the parents.

00:23:13.260 Yeah.

00:23:13.420 Okay, I want to keep throwing things to the other side, though. Let's stick with your

00:23:16.220 food analogy. You think people on food stamps are making good decisions about what they feed

00:23:20.380 their kids?

00:23:20.780 Nope.

00:23:21.180 The argument I'm making about...

00:23:23.180 You think that they're feeding stuff that's in the best interest of their children?

00:23:24.780 I do use this analogy. I do use this analogy with food stamps and Medicaid vouchers.

00:23:29.100 I've seen it.

00:23:29.820 And the argument I'm making is not how much we should spend on food stamps, not how much we should spend

00:23:34.540 on education, that if we're going to spend money on food stamps, or if we're going to spend money

00:23:38.940 on K-12 education, the money should go to people, not buildings. So we shouldn't

00:23:43.580 residentially assign low-income families to government-run grocery stores and say,

00:23:47.740 you have to use those taxpayer dollars there. I think a better solution is give the money to the

00:23:52.460 people.

00:23:52.860 I don't feel like you answered the question, though. I don't feel like you answered the question.

00:23:54.380 I'm saying that that's the only argument I'm making.

00:23:56.620 You're giving them money. They are able to make a choice to purchase something for their

00:24:00.300 kids. And I'm asking you if you believe that people on welfare are making good decisions for

00:24:07.420 their kids. I'm not going to say it's a perfect scenario. I'm saying it is relatively better than

00:24:12.860 if we were to assign them to a government grocery store where they gave you government cheese,

00:24:17.180 or they would probably have empty shelves like they do in the socialist countries.

00:24:21.100 That's a weird hypothetical. But what I will say is, I think we're poisoning American

00:24:25.020 children and we're paying for it. In so many ways, we're paying for it.

00:24:28.220 Right, but I suppose- We're paying for it up front?

00:24:29.820 So are we poisoning them with choice, or are we poisoning them with-

00:24:32.860 No, no, no. The issue comes down to this. The, I know what's best for you, do as you're told,

00:24:37.660 versus the, well, you might do something bad, but I'll make it your choice anyway.

00:24:41.900 Bloomberg in New York, for instance, said, we're going to tax sodas because people are fat.

00:24:46.060 And then he actually said at some conference, tax the poor, because they're too stupid to know

00:24:51.180 what's right for them.

00:24:51.820 This happened with school choice, too. In Kentucky, they passed a bill in 2021. One of the Democrats in

00:24:56.140 the House said, I don't think we could do this here. They did it in Virginia, where higher

00:25:00.860 income families are using it, and they're figuring it out. But here we're trying to target it to low

00:25:05.180 income families. Do you think they're going to be able to shop around, they said, implying that

00:25:09.980 low income families either don't have the wherewithal or ability or knowledge to be able to choose a

00:25:16.300 school that works best for their kids? I think that's a paternalistic argument against school

00:25:19.740 choice. I think it's an elitist argument against school choice. And I think in general,

00:25:23.500 parents from all backgrounds have more information on the ground knowledge and incentive to get the

00:25:30.220 decisions right for their own kids than bureaucrats sitting in offices hundreds of miles away.

00:25:34.300 I'm making a Hayekian argument.

00:25:35.980 I think that the bigger issue outside of who's going to pay for it, to me,

00:25:39.740 doesn't really matter all that much. I mean, obviously, budgeting and taxes and all that stuff

00:25:43.340 are a big issue. But I really do feel like if you go to the average person and you start talking

00:25:47.980 about things they can't see, like they don't know where this money's going anyway,

00:25:50.860 it's not going to matter as much as say like, hey, my kid ran away from school because he hates it.

00:25:56.300 And now the police have issued a warrant for my arrest because my son has been truant too often.

00:26:00.380 Well, during Zoom school, they were doing this too with a kid had a Nerf gun or something behind

00:26:04.700 him and he got expelled from the school. And I think police were coming to children's houses as well.

00:26:10.940 So the issue I see is, for instance, there was one day, I think this precipitated my ending

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00:27:22.300 Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

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00:27:42.140 Did I mention that we care?

00:27:46.140 It was miserable. It's like a prison. It's torture. And they did this thing to us where

00:27:58.300 in grade school, it was 7.30 to 2.30. And then the way this particular public school operated is

00:28:05.980 they did recess in the first hour, which was a trick, I guess. Yeah, it's such BS. They said,

00:28:11.180 okay, 7.30 to 8.30 is recess, which meant you only had to show up for school at 8.30.

00:28:16.060 And then you got out around 3. And then when high school started, the local high school, which

00:28:21.820 we had to go to, we were district locked or region locked or whatever, said, okay,

00:28:25.500 now it's 10.45 a.m. for freshmen and you get out at 6. And so they were parents who were pissed.

00:28:30.540 They were like, it's winter. Like, there's me 14 year old girls walking home in the dark.

00:28:35.420 Why are you nuts? It was massively disruptive to the sleep schedules and the routines of everybody.

00:28:40.940 That wasn't even the, that was bad. All of a sudden, I wake up at seven in the morning,

00:28:45.820 staring at the ceiling, sitting around watching daytime soaps until I had to walk to school at 10.

00:28:50.860 And then one day I just started crying. I fell down on the ground halfway to school and then

00:28:56.380 just went home. I said, I will not do this anymore. I'm done. I call, I can't remember who I called my

00:28:59.820 mom or my dad. And I was like, I'm never going back there again. My parents could go, could go

00:29:03.660 to jail for that because the school was so miserable. I remember, uh, one day when I left

00:29:07.820 school, I was with my friends. Oh no, no, no. This was after I left. Uh, there was fighting,

00:29:12.380 there was gangs. There were a couple of different gangs that were operating in the, in the school.

00:29:15.900 And then, uh, like my friends who were still going there were like,

00:29:19.980 hey, meet us after school. We're going to go skate or something. I think I was like 15.

00:29:23.020 And one block to the east of the school, a fight, a fight was scheduled. And one dude hit a gun

00:29:31.180 under a car. And when he got knocked out, knocked down, he wasn't unconscious. He crawled and

00:29:37.740 everyone's hooting and hollering. And then he grabs the gun, stands up or no, no, no, I'm sorry. He

00:29:41.900 grabbed a two by four and then he hit a two by four. And the other guy pulled a gun out of his back.

00:29:45.820 And he's like, you want to bring weapons? And then everyone started screaming and running.

00:29:48.940 If you don't, if your kids leave that environment, they don't want to be there. The police will come

00:29:53.740 and arrest the parents. And I think this gets at us.

00:29:56.300 Unless you do some paperwork with the district to homeschool. And that's the way many,

00:30:01.100 and that's what we did.

00:30:01.820 Yeah. Many families. So it's not, it's, you're not going to get arrested.

00:30:04.540 So you're going to fill out some paperwork and then you're, you're good to go.

00:30:08.060 My point is, my point is your option is the mini jail where there's police at every exit and metal

00:30:14.940 detectors. People bring and hide guns around the school anyway. Oh, I remember freshman hell week

00:30:19.740 too. Do you guys remember fresh, you know what freshman hell week is? They said, don't go to

00:30:24.060 school because they're going to beat the ever living. They're going to pick on you.

00:30:26.060 Yeah.

00:30:26.300 Pick on you? Hell no. No, it was, they're going to beat the crap on you.

00:30:29.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:30:30.540 I am sorry that you, and everyone has to go through it.

00:30:32.940 Real quick, this gets at another point that I wanted to bring up. Chris talked a lot about

00:30:36.620 academics and I think that's important too. And it has been part of the school choice conversation

00:30:40.620 for a while. I think families care a lot more about what you're talking about, Tim,

00:30:46.540 things like safety. And that, that actually gets to one of the evaluations out of DC where they

00:30:53.020 actually, they do have a voucher program in DC. It's only a couple thousand students using it,

00:30:57.500 a disproportionately low income, non-white students using the program in DC. But they find that students

00:31:03.340 that won the lottery, this is an experimental evaluation. You can say it's caused by getting

00:31:08.060 a choice to go to a private school. They had no impacts on test scores after the, after the first

00:31:13.260 three years on math or reading test scores, no effects at a third of the cost, which I would,

00:31:17.820 I think that implies a, a benefits, a good ROI. If you're getting the same academic outcomes for 10,000,

00:31:23.980 as opposed to $30,000 a year, I think that's a win. But all that aside, the main finding that I saw was

00:31:30.220 an increase in satisfaction, safety, and a reduction in absenteeism. So these are things

00:31:37.020 that are captured not by standardized tests, but that go into the decision-making process

00:31:42.540 when parents are selecting schools. I, I think our culture is absolutely degenerate

00:31:48.060 and corrupt. Parents hand off their children to strangers. And then you get these stories of abuse.

00:31:53.580 There was a teacher at my high school who was raping young boys. And I don't know,

00:31:56.940 I think you went to jail for it. It's, it's, it's shocking to me that we live in a world where

00:32:03.340 it's like, I have no idea who the teachers are at the school, but you're going. And then when these

00:32:08.140 kids come home and they say, my teacher is bad, they go, oh, shut up. You're lazy. Like the,

00:32:13.500 like the kids are wrong. It's so insane to me that we used to live in a society where the kids grew

00:32:18.620 up with their parents. The, the families lived together, multi-generational family houses and estates,

00:32:23.820 big, you know, a big farm or whatever, where a bunch of different people had different houses

00:32:28.300 or whatever, but they were in the same community or village. And now it's dad goes to work. Mom

00:32:32.140 goes to work. They don't see the kids until three. The kid gets handed off to a stranger who hates

00:32:35.660 their guts. The kids come home miserable, say, I hate you, mom. I hate you, dad. And this is supposed

00:32:40.220 to be normal. I'm not saying literally everyone is like that, but that we know that these things do

00:32:44.140 exist, particularly in cities. It's become a common trope in American culture. The, I hate you,

00:32:50.140 dad. You, you can't tell me what to do. I hate you, mom. Like how these things come to be.

00:32:55.420 And then it's that, that the idea that the phrase school sucks exists. It's, it's remarkable to me

00:33:02.380 how bad American public schools are beyond the idea of how much we're spending beyond scoring and tests

00:33:08.780 and all that. These are miserable places kids hate. We make TV shows about kids beating each other.

00:33:14.460 And we're wondering why there are school shootings. And we're like, no, no, no, no,

00:33:17.820 by law, they should be forced to go there. I mean, when you type into Google,

00:33:20.540 right, this is why you're bringing this up. When you type in school, the school sucks,

00:33:24.620 come up. Or when, when I think of school, if you type into Google, when I think of school,

00:33:28.860 I think it'll say, I feel depressed. I want, I, I want to cry or it's, it's a lot of negative things.

00:33:34.300 So I shooting comes up. I would say, so school, well, that's not great either.

00:33:38.140 No, no, come on. But like something is happening in these buildings that is shattering the minds of

00:33:42.860 young people to the point where we're seeing not just shootings in Loudoun County.

00:33:47.100 We had a girl get raped and like, and then they labeled that guy as a domestic terrorist,

00:33:51.500 the parent. That's where the whole national school board, when he shows up angry saying,

00:33:55.820 what's happening? I'm sorry there. I do not believe that the schooling system is redeemable.

00:34:01.100 And I think the problem is adults are self-righteous and refuse to accept that,

00:34:06.860 that kids in this country are suffering, depressed, and hate the environments. And those that work

00:34:11.900 their way through it are, are unaware of what could be. So, so the, I mean, how is it that we have

00:34:20.780 hit TV shows for 30 years? I'm saying a 30 year old TV show that lasted for seven or eight years,

00:34:26.780 where the premise is school is miserable and kids hate it. And it's basically every single

00:34:32.140 show where kids are like, yes, school sucks. And the response from parents is always,

00:34:35.580 you're just a bad kid who's lazy. It's insane to me. Now, do you guys want another opinion here?

00:34:41.740 Yeah, absolutely. Because this is like one hand clapping right now.

00:34:44.860 So, so, um, here's an alternative way to look at this, all of this. First of all, I just want to

00:34:51.180 challenge you on the numbers. When you say 30,000 and then 7,000, so it's a big savings.

00:34:55.820 10,000 in DC. It's just a little over 10,000 DC for the voucher.

00:34:59.820 It's actually way more for the ESAs than you're predicting because it takes out special education

00:35:04.540 for one, which is very expensive. Some of the ESAs went up to $40,000 in some cases,

00:35:09.900 when you include things like special education. So they were very expensive.

00:35:12.780 But they were, but they were spending that much in the government schools too,

00:35:15.500 for those same kids. So it's still a fraction of what would have been spent.

00:35:18.300 I mean, I, I understand the strategy of talking over it, but you're underestimating the cost of

00:35:23.020 the ESAs and overestimating the cost of the public school because the public schools have

00:35:29.020 legacy costs and fixed costs that your new schools won't. Now, everything you just said, Tim,

00:35:34.620 everything that you just said, Corey, everything you just said, that's bad about the public school

00:35:38.380 system. The answer to any of those things is not to put a bunch of kids with a bunch of money

00:35:43.020 into an unregulated, accountability-free, quality-free system of private schools that

00:35:49.260 nobody's going to be able to know what's happening to those kids with. And that it's intentionally

00:35:52.860 been written into the law that you can't measure them and you can't keep track of what they're

00:35:57.180 doing on purpose. So it's not transparent at all. That's not the answer. But I do want to say this,

00:36:01.820 because I hear these conversations all the time. And I just like, wonder what country you guys live

00:36:06.620 in. Like, it sounds like a media bubble to me, this, everything's awful. Everything's terrible.

00:36:11.820 There are 14,000 school districts in the United States, 100,000 schools in the United States.

00:36:15.980 I guarantee you that not everybody's having the experience. You guys are painting the bleakest

00:36:20.540 possible picture, but it's not what people are experiencing everywhere. And that's a very

00:36:25.580 important point. It's just completely relatable in modern media to make a show that lasts for 10

00:36:30.220 seasons where the kids are like, this is what school is like and it's miserable and I hate it.

00:36:34.300 Well, there's a bunch of shows where they're great and they love, you know, Seventh Heaven. My

00:36:39.260 kid watched Seventh Heaven coming up and whatnot. The family was perfect. And, you know, they were

00:36:43.340 a Christian family and, you know, that's primetime TV. It depends on what you watch. Your algorithm

00:36:48.380 determines what your story is.

00:36:49.980 The big primetime shows that we're getting, you know, in the 2020 million viewers were typically

00:36:55.900 depicting schools as miserable. The teachers were miserable. Malcolm the Middle comes to,

00:37:01.020 is a great example of every facet of school that the kids were in, they were abused. Even the gifted

00:37:07.020 kid, Malcolm was abused. I can't judge, I can't judge America based on what Hollywood puts out

00:37:13.020 in popular media. Because, you know, listen, they do the same thing to marriage. Is marriage terrible?

00:37:18.300 But yes. Absolutely, they do. And so many TV shows show

00:37:21.500 marriage as being just off, God awful, terrible, whatnot. It's like funny. It's kind of hip to be

00:37:26.140 like, marriage is so bad. My marriage is so bad. Corey got married last year. I just congratulated him.

00:37:31.180 Thank you. Thank you. I just congratulated him because it's the best thing that could possibly

00:37:34.860 happen to him. But that's just, I mean, if Hollywood, if we buy that Hollywood has a

00:37:39.900 general leftward bias, if they are saying marriage is bad, maybe that has to do with it. Maybe it's

00:37:45.660 conservative values that they think is bad. But if they're still saying that school is bad, and then

00:37:51.100 they generally support the teachers union, that should tell you that the school is even worse than

00:37:55.740 what they're depicting it as. But let's just say you're right. You are Dr. Corey DeAngelis.

00:38:02.060 Dr. Corey DeAngelis does not- I'm not a real doctor, though. I'm a

00:38:04.940 Jill Biden doctor. I have a PhD in education policy. It's a terrible talking point.

00:38:09.660 It's a terrible talking point. But you are Dr. Corey DeAngelis. There's no way in the world that

00:38:14.700 you do any of your work based on television shows. You do research. You do scholarly research.

00:38:19.100 Yeah. So I was going to give you a piece. My point is that not that television

00:38:23.740 scholarly research, I'm saying our culture has normalized this idea and finds it relatable

00:38:28.300 to display to people that schools are miserable and kids are bullied and beaten. I mean, why do

00:38:32.620 we have these big anti-bullying campaigns? Why are we seeing so many kids suffering from increases

00:38:37.820 in depression outside of social media? I think part of it was the school closures

00:38:42.300 that were induced by the teachers unions. I'll get a little- They were. There have been six

00:38:47.740 studies, academic. I was the first one to do one, peer-reviewed at Social Science Quarterly.

00:38:51.420 Yes. So I do still- And he's a doctor.

00:38:52.860 Yeah.

00:38:53.260 I'm a doctor. You better listen to me. I'm the expert. You better listen to me.

00:38:56.380 But we all found in each of these studies, different research teams from the left,

00:38:59.900 from the right, finding that in places with stronger teachers unions, all else equal,

00:39:03.260 controlling for the political persuasions in the area, the race in the area, the income

00:39:07.100 in the area, all else equal, stronger teachers unions, the schools stayed closed longer. And there

00:39:12.860 have been other studies that have linked the school closures to mental health issues as well.

00:39:17.180 So I, I mean, we could disagree about why the schools were closed.

00:39:20.620 So you throw those out there, but you don't educate the public. What you're talking about

00:39:24.140 right now, in those same places, they had three times the number of kids of color who were actually

00:39:29.020 dying from COVID. They had higher incidents of COVID, and they had more old teachers that were

00:39:34.780 afraid of getting COVID. So you can say teachers unions, but when you say teachers unions,

00:39:38.860 you're just talking about teachers.

00:39:39.900 And America, America loves its teachers. Every poll after poll after poll after poll.

00:39:44.780 Because they're idiots.

00:39:45.980 Well, I mean, or because teachers are actually a necessary part of a functioning democracy.

00:39:51.180 Right.

00:39:51.580 And they're doing a very lot of work.

00:39:52.620 Private schools have teachers, too. Private schools have teachers, too. And they were open

00:39:55.980 in the same city. The Chicago private schools were open.

00:39:58.220 Private schools reopened.

00:39:58.700 The government schools were closed. They were striking in 2022.

00:40:00.860 Very close. Very close. The percentage of their rates of reopening is very close. It's like

00:40:05.260 only 4% difference between them and the regular schools in terms of reopening.

00:40:08.780 To me, when you say that people, teachers are necessary.

00:40:11.900 I think that's incorrect.

00:40:12.780 I think the way it should be is that local communities should allocate time from parents

00:40:20.460 in the community to handle.

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00:41:18.940 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

00:41:26.140 Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

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00:41:49.580 Specific subjects in which they're pretty good at or better at, they can easily teach better to

00:41:55.100 the kids they know in their own communities. You could do these things by a few block radius

00:41:59.340 where the parents come together, decide we're going to do pods. Each parent can take a certain

00:42:03.900 day where they'll have the kids for a day and teach them specific subjects. And that would be

00:42:07.900 a million times better. What you're saying right now happens already.

00:42:11.340 Yeah, pod learning. I know it's fantastic.

00:42:12.700 It happens for the... And community expert. There's a...

00:42:15.900 Absolutely. In my state, there's an official designation. I could bring you in

00:42:19.820 and you could actually start working with young people tomorrow, showing them... Because you have,

00:42:24.780 and I said this to someone else, you have had something happen in your life

00:42:29.180 that nobody gets counseled on doing. All of this is actually something that is blazing a

00:42:34.540 different path that nobody counseled you on doing, right? Right.

00:42:37.660 There is a designation in public schools where you can go and teach this right now to kids and

00:42:41.660 show them the entrepreneurial spirit that it took to build this.

00:42:44.540 I think the problem is lack of community. I think one of the biggest problems... I think

00:42:48.460 so much of the political crises that we see in this country is based on the fact that there is no

00:42:54.220 longer a community. So policing, for instance, everyone says, you got the abolish the police,

00:42:59.180 defund the police or back the blue. And I'm like, no, the real issue is the cops don't know you and

00:43:03.580 aren't actually trying to protect you, your family and their community. So for instance,

00:43:08.540 the example I often gives, I get pulled over on Lakeshore Drive in Chicago. I was not speeding. I was

00:43:13.260 exiting at Belmont. Cop pulls me over and says, you were speeding. I said, no, it wasn't. I'm on the exit.

00:43:17.900 I have to slow down to get off. And he goes, tell it to a judge.

00:43:20.380 That ticket, I think I was 20 years old, suspended my license. So I couldn't drive for

00:43:25.900 three or some odd years. I ended up getting arrested and charged for driving a suspended

00:43:29.500 license because I didn't know that because they don't tell you that if you get two moving violations

00:43:33.420 under 21. And so I had to leave my job to go to court or just pay 75 bucks, which I did,

00:43:38.940 which was a guilty plea. Now, in a small town, and you hear this quite often. In fact, we have

00:43:44.940 viewers who will be like, that's exactly what it's like in my town, a town of 3,000 people.

00:43:47.900 The cop pulls you over and he goes, aren't you Jim's kid? Why are you speeding? I got to go.

00:43:52.460 I'm going to see your dad down at the bar tomorrow night. And what am I going to say? I caught your

00:43:56.220 kid speeding. And the kid's going to be like, oh, please don't tell him I did. Dramatically

00:44:00.700 different experience. What we've done now.

00:44:02.780 What you just said is the America nobody ever talks about.

00:44:06.780 In these discussions, we have gotten so negative about everything. And so the sky is falling about

00:44:11.660 everything. And so awfulizing everything to the point that the thing that you just said

00:44:16.460 is invisible to us. It's not invisible to me because it's what I live. I live in a part of

00:44:20.540 America that's the middle of America. It's the mainstream of what America really is. And it is

00:44:25.580 not what these discussions are. We have just painted in this conversation, the most bleak possible picture

00:44:31.100 of American institutions in America. And everything's terrible and it's the left and it's right and all this.

00:44:36.220 And then, Corey, in your state, you have some school districts that have 80 and 90 million dollar

00:44:43.500 football fields at a high school level, right? Why? Because Texas loves football the way that

00:44:49.740 Indiana loves basketball. That is America. That is what the system really is for us. Yes,

00:44:56.220 we can pull up anecdotes about really bad things happening. We could do that. And if your entire

00:45:01.020 algorithm is that, if your entire algorithm is bad, it's bad, it's bad, it's bad, guess what?

00:45:06.780 You start reflecting that and the rest of America is doing things like when somebody dies,

00:45:11.500 they bring castle rolls to your house, right? When somebody has a baby, stuff starts showing

00:45:15.740 up at your house for free. When you need something, when you need a lawnmower in my neighborhood,

00:45:20.460 if you needed a lawnmower, you can go and knock on a couple of doors, you're going to get a lawnmower.

00:45:24.300 That's the country I live in. And that's not New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles.

00:45:28.140 Why do we always New York a size America? But New York spends $38,000. That's an aside,

00:45:34.380 but I haven't talked in a long time. Why is it Minnesota? High population density areas that

00:45:41.180 have a massive influence on politics are experiencing a shattering of community.

00:45:46.220 Why did we have a conversation in this country about abolishing the police? Because police in New

00:45:49.660 York and Chicago and LA to a certain degree, but LA is pretty spread out.

00:45:54.060 Actually, it was Minneapolis. It's the one thing I can say about Minnesota that we offered in,

00:45:58.620 you know. But you have people in New York writing about their police, fighting with cops,

00:46:06.300 and then they want to abolish the police and it ends up affecting small towns. So I think it was at

00:46:12.220 the height of the abolish the police movement, something like half of police departments had

00:46:17.420 some kind of budget removed because of the movement. You get people who live in suburban areas

00:46:23.820 who will hear on the news like, oh, the cops did this bad thing. Right now, the big story is Dexter

00:46:27.980 Reed in Chicago. And then they're going to say, we need police reform. It's like, no, no, no, you don't.

00:46:33.340 But this is the most, is half of the influence of the country. And especially when you look at

00:46:37.900 Democrats controlling institutions, media or otherwise, it's based on these big cities.

00:46:43.820 So if we're talking about, you know, what big cities are going through, where large population

00:46:51.500 density is creating this culture, which is affecting the greater society. Yeah, those are

00:46:56.700 the problems. I don't think when we talk about the problems of schools, I'm not referring to a

00:47:02.780 small town. Like I'm not talking about like Inwood, West Virginia. I don't know how it goes out down

00:47:06.540 there, but people probably know each other. This is why I started out with the phrase, if you like your

00:47:10.860 public school, you can keep your public school. There is Gallup polling to suggest a recent all

00:47:15.980 time low in support for the public education system. And I believe among conservatives,

00:47:21.020 it was extremely low, about nine percent. I know it was under double digits,

00:47:25.420 an all time low in support for the public education system. So we could talk about Hollywood and whether

00:47:30.140 they're branding it in the right way or the wrong way, but we do have-

00:47:32.860 We'll do this. We'll do this. So in West Virginia, right? This is the second most Trump-supporting

00:47:38.700 state in the country. And the schools started to bring in really offensive stuff.

00:47:45.900 So there was a reaction. Jefferson County, which is the eastern panhandle of West Virginia,

00:47:50.700 outright banned drag shows with kids, child drag shows or drag shows with kids. Berkeley County,

00:47:55.660 just to the west, allows it and actually has it in the public streets.

00:47:58.700 So you actually have now parents who are furious. There was an election. I had people come to me.

00:48:03.980 They tried, they were trying to set up a, um, like a pod schooling system because

00:48:11.660 woke left types who want to bring in graphic sexual content to schools,

00:48:17.100 masquerading as conservatives, got elected to school boards and then started doing that.

00:48:22.060 And these kids have no choice but to go there. And so the other issue that we're seeing is,

00:48:27.980 sure. Okay. Let's, let's talk about fine. We don't care about cities,

00:48:31.580 political influence and captured institutions. If, if it is by law requirement to have your kids

00:48:36.780 in these location locked schools, it's a prime, it's an, it's, it's an open door for extremists

00:48:42.540 to come in, lie, and then start giving kids really messed up stuff. And then they tell the kids,

00:48:47.740 don't tell your parents. I, I, again, it comes back to this culture of we hand our kids off to

00:48:53.180 strangers and then cross our fingers. That's nuts to me. Yeah. And it might not be-

00:48:56.780 I've got five kids who never did that in my family. It might not have, it might-

00:48:59.660 You, you, you, no, no, no. You don't know. You don't know if your teacher gave porn to your,

00:49:04.380 to one of your kids. Yeah, I do.

00:49:05.580 No, you don't. Yeah, I do.

00:49:06.620 No, you don't because- Yeah, I do. And every active parent does know.

00:49:09.580 This is absolutely not the case. We know, we are the experts on our kids. So-

00:49:12.780 We know exactly what's happening with our kids. Corey will say this to me where he goes.

00:49:16.460 So the kids, so the young girl-

00:49:18.460 You can't have it both ways. You can't say parents are the experts and they know everything,

00:49:21.500 and then tell me I don't know what's going on with my kids. But not when the schools are keeping secrets from the parents. Not when school districts are keeping secrets from the parents. We have multiple stories of young girls trying to commit suicide and the parents did not know that the teachers were giving them things and saying, don't tell your parents. Not only that, Florida, I believe it was, until DeSantis and the legislature changed the law, actually were saying, don't out, like, teachers were-

00:49:44.500 They're doing this in California. Yeah, they're saying it's a requirement to not tell the parents.

00:49:48.720 It's a requirement from the parents. And they changed their gender at school.

00:49:51.440 Actually, I feel bad for parents that need teachers in schools to tell them what's going on with their kid.

00:49:55.720 It's not about teachers telling them. It's about-

00:49:57.640 I just feel bad for parents that have that going on with their kids because it just seems like they need to have a better relationship with their children, with their young people in their house.

00:50:05.940 Because I have five kids. I don't know how many kids everybody here has, but I'm a parent. I've been a parent since the 90s. I've put multiple kids through these systems. I'm not talking in the abstract. I'm talking about somebody who has been very cynical about the schools.

00:50:18.500 I've been very militant, especially with my first one, about public schools and public schooling. And I look for every problem. But I can tell you, as an expert of my kid, that all of that framing that you just gave, it sounds like something that I've heard before.

00:50:32.580 And, you know, I'm going to keep hearing it, but it's not the reality for many people.

00:50:36.400 So it is true in this country. There are, you mentioned California. This was happening in Florida.

00:50:43.280 It was happening in Maryland and Virginia, where the teachers pre-policy still had their own internal policy.

00:50:50.420 Do not tell the parents what's really going on. There's a viral TikTok as just one example.

00:50:56.180 It's not, don't tell the parents what's going on. It's not your job to have this conversation with parents.

00:51:03.080 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:51:05.760 I know you like talking over me, right? You said that about Corey.

00:51:08.140 No, but you guys keep, you guys are sticking on these right wing points.

00:51:11.180 So there's a viral TikTok where this woman says, a mother came to me and asked if her daughter was in the LGBT club and her name was, I don't know, the name was Hannah or something.

00:51:23.420 And then she goes, I think that's her dead name and her real name is Mac.

00:51:27.660 She goes, there's no Hannah in the club. Sorry, maybe she's in Bible study.

00:51:32.000 You have all of these teachers publicly declaring they're doing this.

00:51:35.160 It became a political problem where a young girl tried to kill herself in Florida because the teachers were telling her she was trans when she wasn't.

00:51:42.140 And the policy was not to tell the parents because it's outing and they're doing it in California.

00:51:46.180 They do it in Virginia. That was another big issue.

00:51:48.980 And I just find it, I find it fascinating that we know for a fact that's happening and that's, and that's fine.

00:51:53.300 It's not happening to you, but understand it is happening.

00:51:57.000 It is a big problem.

00:51:58.140 Well, just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean we shouldn't.

00:52:00.320 Let's assume that it doesn't happen.

00:52:02.080 If it doesn't, if it doesn't, hold up.

00:52:03.700 If it doesn't, we don't have, we don't have, we don't have information on every single case.

00:52:08.640 No, you don't.

00:52:09.160 That's why you keep pulling up anecdotes.

00:52:10.540 But this is, but this is the information that we have available to us.

00:52:14.340 Anecdotes are still evidence in that.

00:52:16.560 California attorney general tells, tell.

00:52:19.100 But really quick.

00:52:20.480 Yeah.

00:52:20.680 I'm involved.

00:52:21.320 Liberty Justice Center is involved with the lawsuit against it.

00:52:24.060 You have an entire state, but saying teachers can't tell the parents what's going on with the kids.

00:52:29.460 And you have kids getting raped.

00:52:31.740 Oh, fine.

00:52:32.220 Anecdote, whatever.

00:52:33.040 This triggered the flipping of the governorship in Virginia, because in Loudoun County, which is literally 30 seconds from here, a preteen girl was raped.

00:52:42.120 And the individual who did it apparently had done it on more than one occasion.

00:52:45.020 And the school tries to cover it up.

00:52:46.360 It was the bathroom policy.

00:52:47.700 Bathroom policy.

00:52:48.600 So just let that out of the clear.

00:52:50.040 In this case, you think that schools, if students tell things to schools in private and the schools don't tell that to parents, you're saying that that's wrong.

00:53:01.800 And I just want to make sure that I'm hearing this right.

00:53:03.380 That's wrong.

00:53:03.980 Because I do want to let you know that that's the number one way that kids actually get into child protective services when they're being sexually abused by their parents or by family members at home.

00:53:14.500 The school system is the number one place that kids get help for those things by talking in private to their school system.

00:53:22.660 And then authorities are brought in.

00:53:24.080 I think that's a separate issue.

00:53:25.680 If there is evidence of the parent abusing their kid, regardless of whether you have a disagreement with what's happening at the school, that parent should be dealt with if they're abusing their kids.

00:53:39.100 Obviously, no one's going to disagree.

00:53:40.040 This story, which triggered the law change in Florida, was a 12-year-old girl having weekly meetings at the school about being trans.

00:53:48.260 The teacher was grooming this child, and then the child tried to kill herself.

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00:55:17.160 And the parents had no idea what was going on.

00:55:22.460 So we are disagreeing.

00:55:23.580 It's a terrible story.

00:55:24.040 So look, Chris, we're disagreeing about how often this happens.

00:55:26.440 But let's say it happens 0.1% of the time.

00:55:29.120 Shouldn't those 0.1% of parents have the choice to go somewhere else?

00:55:31.960 I mean, that's the argument I'm making that a lot of people may be happy with their public schools.

00:55:36.900 Maybe none of this is happening in your public school.

00:55:39.160 But you can still choose that opportunity.

00:55:41.220 But shouldn't other families, if there's something going on, regardless, you know, let's say you're assigned to a school that's super Trumpy and you didn't like that for whatever reason.

00:55:50.380 And you wanted to go to a more left-leaning school.

00:55:52.960 Should you be able to have that choice to vote with your feet?

00:55:55.380 I think we could agree there.

00:55:56.300 Let's try this.

00:55:57.020 Let's try this.

00:55:57.580 So you've got what's going on in Sweden, Denmark, and the UK around trans kids.

00:56:04.240 And across Europe now for the past couple of years, the recommendations have been ending puberty blockers in these treatments.

00:56:11.200 You've now had actual peer-reviewed legitimate major studies.

00:56:14.640 I think it was in PNAS, and it's a funny name for a publication, showing that it really is.

00:56:20.100 Yeah, that's the name of the scientific journal.

00:56:22.240 P-N-A-S?

00:56:23.140 P-N-A-S.

00:56:24.080 All right.

00:56:24.540 I think you're saying it.

00:56:25.420 That sounds like a brother saying it.

00:56:26.780 P-N-A-S.

00:56:27.680 Yeah.

00:56:28.340 So here's what we find.

00:56:29.920 We find that desistance rates, and we knew this for a long time because the studies have been out, and many leftist activists and trans activists try to ignore these.

00:56:37.720 Desistance, meaning a child who presents as gender dysphoric upon reaching puberty will cease to be dysphoric and find themselves more aligned with their biological sex and gender or whatever.

00:56:49.940 And so desistance rates can be from like 65 to 95%.

00:56:53.040 We're now finding that the aggregate studies and the studies of studies where they analyze all the data, and now we're looking at the actual scientific research on puberty blockers and things like that at the UK, Denmark, Sweden.

00:57:05.420 They're all saying, stop this.

00:57:07.020 It is not working, and it's bad.

00:57:09.000 There's now something called the CAST Report, which is this big controversy among the left, which is advocating in the UK to stop the puberty blockers and things like this.

00:57:19.460 So this stuff has been known for a long time.

00:57:21.380 If desistance rates are greater than 50% and suicidal ideation is higher than 50% and actual attempts at suicide among young people are, I think it's around 35% or 30% to 40%, I think it might be like 30% among trans people.

00:57:40.160 If desistance is higher than the rate of suicide, advocating children go on medication, puberty blockers, or social transition is increasing the risk of suicide among them.

00:57:52.020 And the policy among schools in California and many schools until parents started finding out what was going on, especially because of these Zoom classes, the policy was tell the kids, affirm the kids.

00:58:04.500 I mean, you've got teachers now, numerous teachers, who have been fired for refusing to affirm children.

00:58:09.720 We're talking about kids who are experiencing something distressful.

00:58:13.440 I get it.

00:58:14.060 The science says the proper treatment is do not give them blockers, do not give them medication, do not social transition them.

00:58:20.220 They need therapy, and they will likely desist, and this can prevent suicide.

00:58:24.300 But the school policy was to affirm, affirm this, and don't tell the parents.

00:58:30.280 But this is widespread.

00:58:31.620 And let me add a couple more things.

00:58:33.260 Okay.

00:58:33.920 We have this book is gay and genderqueer over here, and those were found in hundreds of schools, maybe more than that, even in Florida.

00:58:42.780 And you've got descriptions of scat.

00:58:45.320 You've got explanations in that book on how to use Grindr.

00:58:47.860 A teacher in Illinois was giving instruction to 10- to 12-year-olds on how to use Grindr to hook up with adult gay men, and they called the police on her.

00:58:55.860 And the policy at many of these schools is not to tell the parents.

00:58:58.780 Is that the teacher that had, like, a book fair, and she had a book?

00:59:03.220 She was instructing kids, and she was like, so this was a middle school teacher.

00:59:07.340 Let me pull it up.

00:59:08.080 Because there's a middle school teacher in Illinois, I've heard this story before, who had parents call the police on her.

00:59:12.780 Right.

00:59:13.000 That's what we're talking about.

00:59:13.580 Yeah, and the police investigated, the district investigated, and it was a completely blown-up claim, and the parents pulled out of the claim and didn't want to testify anymore.

00:59:23.300 So they made this big claim.

00:59:24.500 It became national news, and the parents themselves who made the claim actually ended up pulling out of it, and it ended in a nothing burger, right?

00:59:31.880 So this teacher had 100 different books at a book fair, and this was one or two books in that book fair.

00:59:38.320 So I just want to, like, level set some things a little bit, because we get, I think, a little bit into panics.

00:59:43.720 It was a book tasting, and one of the books that was added was, This Book is Gay.

00:59:48.120 Yeah.

00:59:48.620 The parents found out and were upset, and they called the police.

00:59:52.980 Here's the fundamental question that I have for both of you guys.

00:59:56.040 Because, first of all, I don't mean to be flippant, but I really don't care about the trans panic.

01:00:01.860 Actually, it doesn't take food off of my table.

01:00:03.660 It's not an American issue.

01:00:04.960 It's not something that 99%-

01:00:06.200 What if it was affecting your kids in your school, though?

01:00:08.080 I'm not done.

01:00:09.400 I'm not done.

01:00:10.240 All right.

01:00:11.940 It's a made-up panic.

01:00:13.400 And people are talking about it incessantly like it is war and peace, like it's, you know,

01:00:19.180 geonational politics or something.

01:00:21.200 It came out of nowhere.

01:00:22.540 It went up, and people took the bait, and there's a bunch of sheep following that thread

01:00:27.060 while we're being distracted from other things that are more important.

01:00:30.620 But, Libertarian, my essential question for you is, if I do have a child that's trans,

01:00:37.380 who should make the decisions about what course of care we take?

01:00:40.420 You can't have it both ways.

01:00:42.080 It's not a parent's right to abuse their children by cutting off their genitals.

01:00:46.620 Parents do not cut off anybody's genitals.

01:00:49.400 So when you say things like-

01:00:50.600 Or to chemically castrate them.

01:00:52.260 You can't be serious when you say things like that.

01:00:54.420 As a person with a doctorate, you cannot be serious when you say things like that.

01:00:57.980 That's an unserious talking point.

01:00:59.860 If you're trying to say that parents should have unrestricted ability to direct their children,

01:01:06.220 they aren't allowed to abuse their children.

01:01:07.720 I'm saying to you, as the person who goes around the country talking about parents' rights,

01:01:11.660 I'm saying to you, if I go home tomorrow and find out that one of my kids is trans,

01:01:16.360 and I have to make some decisions about what course of action we're going to take,

01:01:20.420 me and my wife, we're going to take to handle that,

01:01:23.180 I'm just asking you who you think should get in the way of me researching the different courses of action

01:01:29.620 and talking to doctors and going through these long-ass processes that these parents go through.

01:01:34.980 There's no answer.

01:01:36.000 And who should decide what books go into school?

01:01:38.120 That's another thing.

01:01:38.740 But what you're saying is there is no answer to that question.

01:01:42.520 Because what we have in this country, there's not.

01:01:45.420 For me as a parent, there's an answer.

01:01:47.680 Because if you say the state, in California, what they'll do is they'll take the kids from you

01:01:51.480 and give them medical transition.

01:01:52.840 And in Florida, they will stop you from doing it.

01:01:55.300 So the state is not the answer.

01:01:57.000 And neither is the parents.

01:01:58.200 There is no answer to that question in a country that is hyper-partisan and hyper-politically divided.

01:02:02.120 How often are you okay with the government getting in between you in a medical decision?

01:02:07.660 Moderately.

01:02:08.880 It depends on the government, right?

01:02:10.720 So in Florida, for instance, you've got no vaccine mandate.

01:02:14.780 That's your choice.

01:02:15.740 And no trans kids.

01:02:17.420 In California, it's the inverse.

01:02:18.880 The state intervenes.

01:02:20.280 You must get vaccinated.

01:02:21.580 And if you don't transition, your kids will intervene.

01:02:23.780 They're mirror images of each other.

01:02:25.540 So if I live in a state where I think it's wrong that children are being chemically castrated with puberty blockers,

01:02:30.840 I would prefer it if my community and me not being – I'm not a libertarian, big L libertarian.

01:02:37.300 I actually am in favor of the government intervening to stop parents from giving their children drugs that will sterilize and chemically castrated.

01:02:45.600 Or getting surgeries to remove their breasts.

01:02:47.900 In California, I wouldn't want to live there.

01:02:49.740 It's inverted.

01:02:50.560 So there's a reason why we're moving everything over to West Virginia completely and why I live in West Virginia.

01:02:55.200 So, Chris, I think there's something we can agree on since we're disagreeing so much.

01:02:58.340 But I think the last time we talked, it was me, you, Steve Perry.

01:03:02.440 We were trying to have – Steve was trying to be the middleman.

01:03:05.860 Like, hey, you guys should get together and get along because you guys used to be good friends.

01:03:10.640 And now that hasn't been the case in quite a while.

01:03:14.600 I think one of the things that we had talked about was there was a lot of top-down bills to ban CRT or to implement one-size-fits-all curriculum in the public school system.

01:03:24.460 And my response to that was, Chris, I think the better solution is from the bottom up, something that we had agreed upon in the past, that families should be able to choose the schools that align with their values.

01:03:35.860 And that would make bans in the public schools basically irrelevant.

01:03:41.160 I understand why conservatives still do it because 90% of kids are still there.

01:03:45.200 But if we're solely focused on this policy of school choice that we're focusing on today, couldn't we agree that is a good solution to people who disagree about how they want to raise their kids?

01:03:56.260 Like, if you want to send your kid to a school that does have CRT, you would have that choice.

01:04:00.780 Whereas if I want the school just to focus on the basics, not through a CRT lens, then I could choose that for my kid.

01:04:08.320 I think we used to be able to agree on that.

01:04:12.340 So, first of all, to go all the way back to the beginning, because for me, going back to basics is we're talking about education.

01:04:18.120 And everything that you just said and everything we're talking about right now are political issues.

01:04:21.820 They're not educational issues.

01:04:23.580 Education is about teaching and learning and outcomes.

01:04:26.260 And what happens to kids?

01:04:27.340 Are kids becoming educated?

01:04:28.740 A nation needs educated people.

01:04:31.360 We have a moron problem right now.

01:04:33.300 The moron economy in the United States is recession-proof.

01:04:37.020 And it's a problem for us right now.

01:04:38.940 We need more educated people.

01:04:40.560 And we need science and data that tells us that they're becoming educated and at what point they are not.

01:04:45.980 That's the education issue with schools and children and students.

01:04:49.540 All these other things that we are talking about, they're not education issues.

01:04:52.720 They're actually political skirmishes.

01:04:54.460 That should not be in the classroom, so you're agreeing with us.

01:04:56.660 No, I'm saying that you guys are manufacturing panics on purpose.

01:04:59.820 So, everybody's just making it up.

01:05:01.420 Does it not happen in the schools?

01:05:02.720 I'm saying that one day we're not talking about trans people who make up like 0.001% of the population or something.

01:05:09.440 And the next day, everybody's talking about it.

01:05:11.240 No, I see.

01:05:11.640 You got to stop right there.

01:05:12.600 How did that happen?

01:05:13.280 How did that happen?

01:05:14.040 Hold on.

01:05:14.360 How did that happen?

01:05:14.920 You're wrong.

01:05:15.320 You got to stop.

01:05:15.660 Tell me how did that happen.

01:05:16.280 Pause right there.

01:05:16.920 You're incorrect.

01:05:17.400 Around 30% of Gen Z identifies LGBTQ.

01:05:22.100 I saw the guy on your show who did the left-handed thing, right?

01:05:25.040 Left-handed thing.

01:05:25.800 Yeah.

01:05:26.040 Remember, you had like the guy from the surfs on or whatever.

01:05:29.280 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:05:29.680 I don't know his name.

01:05:30.320 Lance?

01:05:30.840 Yeah.

01:05:31.760 And your thumbnail was like, they destroy the liberal.

01:05:34.860 The left said that.

01:05:36.220 Yeah.

01:05:36.460 The left said that he destroyed us because I didn't.

01:05:39.620 They said he destroyed you?

01:05:40.820 Yeah.

01:05:41.160 Oh, I thought I saw it the opposite way around.

01:05:43.240 I didn't disagree with him.

01:05:44.280 Yeah.

01:05:44.600 I said, it's an interesting point in perspective on.

01:05:47.000 The left-handed thing.

01:05:47.920 Right.

01:05:48.200 When they stopped whacking people's hands for right with their left hand, you saw people

01:05:52.900 are left-handed.

01:05:53.820 And I said, that's a good point.

01:05:55.380 And then they act like, oh, he got Tim.

01:05:57.720 I'm like, but I didn't disagree with him.

01:05:58.780 Well, just for listeners so that they know, we're saying this left-handed thing, but Lance,

01:06:02.240 when he was on the show, showed a chart.

01:06:03.460 And the chart showed an extreme uptick in the number of people that were saying this stuff.

01:06:07.780 Was that?

01:06:08.120 He didn't show you before it?

01:06:09.000 Yep.

01:06:09.600 So there's a period where left-handedness drops.

01:06:14.020 Yeah.

01:06:14.200 And then it's a dip for like a certain amount of time and keeps going.

01:06:18.040 And what they do is they cut off before.

01:06:21.480 So basically what happens is there's a period where all of a sudden left-handedness became

01:06:24.220 bad.

01:06:24.940 And then it lasted for a certain amount of time and then stopped.

01:06:27.620 Yeah.

01:06:27.840 So what they do is they cut off the early history where there are left-handed people showing

01:06:32.200 it being low and then going up and saying, see, it used to be low, but now it's high.

01:06:35.920 And it's like, actually, it was high, then low, then high.

01:06:37.740 What I saw Lance say was when we stopped demonizing.

01:06:40.820 I'm completely out of.

01:06:42.380 So what Lance was saying about the left-handedness was there was a time in which we thought left-handedness.

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01:08:12.600 This was a product of the devil.

01:08:16.700 So we thought it was demonic to be left-handed.

01:08:18.920 So of course, everybody said they weren't left-handed.

01:08:21.120 Even left-handed people started trying to use their right hand for that period of time

01:08:24.220 because you would be of the...

01:08:25.840 When we stopped saying that it was demonic, the number of people that were reporting that

01:08:30.940 they were left-handed actually went up really high and then it plateaued, meaning the number

01:08:35.920 of actually left-handed people were free to come out of the shadows and say...

01:08:40.540 So it wasn't an epidemic of people just becoming left-handed all of a sudden.

01:08:43.880 It was just that we stopped the stigma on them from being left-handed.

01:08:47.000 Not the story here.

01:08:49.280 I just wanted your listeners to know because I'd seen that on the show before.

01:08:51.900 I thought it was an interesting point.

01:08:53.200 So NBC News, nearly 30% of Gen Z adults identify as LGBTQ.

01:08:58.040 Good for them.

01:08:59.160 And so clearly, it's not 0.1%.

01:09:01.760 Now, okay, trans, yes.

01:09:03.260 If you're talking about specifically trans, I can pull the number up, but I'm willing to

01:09:06.260 bet it's much higher than you think it is.

01:09:07.460 Pull it up.

01:09:07.980 Pull it up.

01:09:08.660 Let's see what the number of trans is because it's taking up so much of our political discourse

01:09:12.800 and our time, and on something so important like education and schools, it should not

01:09:17.560 suck the oxygen out of the room.

01:09:19.280 Our real problem with education is data, science, research, teaching, resources.

01:09:25.400 Those are the things that matter.

01:09:26.380 I also think parents see schooling as an extension of parenting in some way where the schools...

01:09:32.560 2%?

01:09:33.060 2% of Gen Z identify as trans, specifically.

01:09:35.140 Point higher.

01:09:36.420 Double that of millennials.

01:09:37.660 Millennials, and it's double that of millennials, and one second, and so 0.3 of Gen X, 0.2 of

01:09:49.740 boomers, and 2% of Gen Z.

01:09:51.920 So why are we talking about it?

01:09:54.220 We're talking about LGBTQ as a...

01:09:56.360 I mean, the reason this all got brought up was because...

01:09:58.020 Right, like the guy...

01:09:59.360 But trans, we're talking about a lot.

01:10:01.120 It's not just the LGBTQ.

01:10:02.640 But that's because that's the permanence, right?

01:10:04.100 So it's like, if a kid is being given a book about using Grindr or whatever, like we have

01:10:08.860 a problem with that for obvious reasons, but showing a kid graphic things that they shouldn't

01:10:15.120 is bad and can have psychological traumatic effects.

01:10:18.580 Giving a kid surgery or puberty blockers is debilitating.

01:10:24.320 So we care about, you know, it's the argument Black Lives Matter use.

01:10:27.680 We spray the fire hose on the burning building and not the one next to it.

01:10:31.320 So if we've got...

01:10:32.780 That's the argument Black Lives Matter use.

01:10:34.120 They said, yes, everybody has problems and all lives do matter, but this one's on fire.

01:10:38.220 So if we have 30% of Gen Z identifying as LGBTQ, we should ask ourselves why that is.

01:10:43.200 Is it a social contagion?

01:10:44.480 Or is it that throughout history, for all of time, all humans have been 30% LGBTQ, but

01:10:49.700 we just never knew because it wasn't socially acceptable?

01:10:51.800 I'm sure there's a certain number of this which is true that LGBT people hid, but I don't

01:10:57.840 believe it's 30%.

01:10:58.840 So wait, just so I'm clear, you think some percentage that 30% of kids are young people

01:11:04.500 are not really gay, but they're, they caught something that makes them want to have sex

01:11:11.120 with the same, they caught something that makes them want to have sex with the same sex,

01:11:15.600 like of people?

01:11:16.700 No, I'm saying that there are kids who, first of all, half of the Gen Z say they're bi.

01:11:21.420 And now you've got, uh, if you actually like read the blogs and read what they're saying,

01:11:25.580 they say things like, uh, Lance, for instance, did you know that Lance is LGBT?

01:11:30.480 No, I didn't know.

01:11:31.340 Yeah.

01:11:31.400 He claims to be too.

01:11:32.380 And everyone's kind of like, bro, you're just some white dude.

01:11:34.080 That's this, this is not true.

01:11:35.540 They're just saying these things.

01:11:37.020 That was so racist.

01:11:38.280 He's just a white dude.

01:11:39.620 Yeah.

01:11:40.500 He's just some like stodgy white guy.

01:11:42.260 That's racist against the white guys.

01:11:43.540 Uh, Tim, Tim, that's terrible.

01:11:45.680 What did I say bad about white guys?

01:11:46.640 That's terrible.

01:11:47.180 You just said he's just a white guy.

01:11:49.380 He's much more than that.

01:11:51.040 But that's not racist.

01:11:51.900 That's not racist against white people.

01:11:54.160 I'm giving you a hard time, man.

01:11:55.720 Listen, I don't know Lance at all.

01:11:57.180 So I can't speak to him.

01:11:58.140 So if, if, if we, if we, if we find that, uh, I don't know Lance is still.

01:12:02.300 He was on the show.

01:12:02.960 He's, I think it was, he's a leftist guy.

01:12:04.340 It was one of my favorite shows, actually.

01:12:05.740 Like, like you have these people on and you're actually really open to having these discussions.

01:12:09.480 So it was a really good.

01:12:10.100 Oh, they will not come on the show.

01:12:11.720 Really?

01:12:12.260 Well, they can't defend their ideas.

01:12:13.760 For the most part.

01:12:14.480 You have a lot of them on, though.

01:12:15.360 Yeah, sometimes, sometimes.

01:12:15.860 You have some of those people on.

01:12:17.020 I've seen some good shows.

01:12:18.000 Yeah, you ask a thousand people and one person come.

01:12:19.720 Yeah, exactly.

01:12:20.420 Really?

01:12:20.920 You've got, you've got everyone on the right banging on the door, begging to be let in.

01:12:24.060 Yeah.

01:12:24.300 And the left is saying, hell no.

01:12:26.840 Yeah.

01:12:27.320 And, uh.

01:12:27.980 Well, I will always be your left guy.

01:12:30.820 You know, your blue-pilled guy.

01:12:32.620 But keep saying what you were saying, though.

01:12:33.920 So the point here is.

01:12:35.120 Yeah.

01:12:35.920 Certainly, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that.

01:12:38.800 But in one generation, we found 30% of humans are LGBT and have just decided to engage in

01:12:46.200 behaviors we've not seen before or something like this.

01:12:48.900 Humans would not be reproducing if a third of the population growth would be substantially

01:12:54.600 smaller if a third of humans were not interested in having families and having kids.

01:12:59.280 Now, to be fair, half of them say they're bi, which opens the door for reproduction.

01:13:02.940 So then let's look at the other half who are not bi, in which means that's the implication

01:13:08.520 of, uh, homosexual behaviors and things like this.

01:13:11.940 They're not going to be reproducing.

01:13:13.660 I, I, we, I don't think we've ever seen anything like that.

01:13:15.660 15% of a generation saying that they're, they're going to be engaging in these other,

01:13:20.500 uh, these, these, these atypical behaviors.

01:13:22.840 And I'm not saying they shouldn't, I'm not saying no to them.

01:13:25.280 I'm saying we should ask ourselves why this is happening.

01:13:26.960 In my lifetime, and I'm older than everybody here in my lifetime, I watched it go from,

01:13:32.380 you could be canceled from everything for being gay, like from everything.

01:13:35.700 Your job, uh, could drop you, uh, insurance companies could drop you.

01:13:39.460 There was all kinds of things that being gay, it was just something you stayed in the closet

01:13:42.580 about.

01:13:43.000 You didn't tell people about it.

01:13:44.520 This generation, Gen Z, I think is actually the most kind of de-stigmatized generation on

01:13:49.360 a lot of things, not just this.

01:13:50.700 And also I want, want you to, to talk to the number of people, period, that are just not

01:13:55.300 interested in having families and, and babies anymore, not just, you know, but it, but it

01:13:59.560 Q it's a, it's pretty high.

01:14:01.020 The number of people that are not having babies anymore and having families.

01:14:05.240 So, but the important distinction here is I think this story itself, uh, lends itself

01:14:11.040 to my, my, my point that it is social contagion and not, uh, a legitimate awakening or acceptance.

01:14:17.600 And do you think the schools have something to do with that?

01:14:19.380 Yes.

01:14:19.920 Uh, and, and media in general.

01:14:21.440 So not only is Gen Z the most LGBTQ, they're actually the, the, the, uh, experiencing the

01:14:27.380 greatest decline in support for same-sex marriage.

01:14:29.900 Now, certainly the people who are LGBT are not the same people who are saying they don't

01:14:34.000 support same-sex marriage.

01:14:34.940 It's hyper-polarization and it is dominantly among males, males and females.

01:14:39.680 Females are substantially more likely to identify as trans and non-binary.

01:14:43.020 Males are substantially more likely to oppose same-sex marriage.

01:14:45.800 Why these things are happening?

01:14:47.480 Social, uh, social indoctrination, social contagion.

01:14:50.560 And I think this is what parents are upset about with the schools.

01:14:53.000 They, they see the schools as a way to transition their kids at a very young age when they don't,

01:14:58.880 when they don't understand these concepts at a very young age.

01:15:01.740 So I, I, I see the problem as us being forced into a one size fits all system where this culture

01:15:08.880 war, name of the show, uh, will never stop if we force people into this one size fits all system

01:15:17.400 of people who just disagree about how they want to raise their kids.

01:15:22.160 And I think you and I have agreed for a long time.

01:15:24.460 And I think I've heard you recently agree that, you know, something that you don't like

01:15:29.000 is, is that people getting into other people's business, that you should just mind your own

01:15:32.860 business.

01:15:33.320 I wish so much, so like if everybody would mind their damn business, the country would

01:15:39.680 be so great.

01:15:40.500 That's the beauty of choice though.

01:15:42.140 That's the, that's the beauty of choice.

01:15:43.720 You can send your kid to a school that is aligned with how you want to raise your kid.

01:15:47.320 I can send my kid to a school that aligns with the way I would want to raise my kid or

01:15:51.880 I could homeschool or you could homeschool.

01:15:53.280 And then we'd be able to choose instead of saying, no, you guys all live here.

01:15:58.080 You got to go to this school.

01:15:59.020 And then, you know, whoever runs that school, they get, they get veto power over all the

01:16:04.320 parents and, and what they want.

01:16:05.800 So like, I brought up like, what if it's, you're in an area where it's a, a hyper Trump

01:16:09.640 supporting school and they taught you that Trump was the divine right of King.

01:16:14.560 And, you know, if you're on the left, you'd probably say-

01:16:17.060 No one would call it indoctrination if it happened on the right though.

01:16:19.740 They only call it indoctrination, but it wouldn't matter.

01:16:22.340 I mean, it wouldn't matter.

01:16:23.140 It wouldn't matter because most of America is doing what you just said.

01:16:26.360 Like I live in red America.

01:16:27.620 So most of America is doing what you just said.

01:16:29.260 They're not saying Trump is the divine King.

01:16:31.320 They're getting goddamn close.

01:16:32.700 There is, however.

01:16:33.600 Right, they're getting goddamn close.

01:16:35.300 Hold on.

01:16:35.740 Have you seen the Fox News commercial where it's like, teach your kids about why Trump

01:16:39.340 is great.

01:16:39.940 Have you seen this commercial?

01:16:40.760 I've not seen it.

01:16:41.500 And it shows a pamphlet.

01:16:42.640 It's like a cartoon Trump smiling and giving a thumbs up.

01:16:44.800 And it's, I find that to be wild.

01:16:46.760 And those are materials though, that are ending up in schools.

01:16:49.100 But this is, this is-

01:16:50.080 I haven't seen them in schools.

01:16:51.160 Yeah.

01:16:51.340 The pro-Trump stuff is ending up in schools.

01:16:53.160 And in some schools, they're outlawing every flag except for a Trump flag.

01:16:57.540 Well, the worrying thing to me is-

01:16:58.460 So is that indoctrination?

01:16:59.520 No, nobody ever talks about it.

01:17:00.520 Well, the left would say it was indoctrination, just like the right says that left were biased

01:17:04.180 of indoctrination.

01:17:05.120 No one would pick it up, though.

01:17:05.800 It's stuff that you don't agree with is indoctrination.

01:17:07.960 No, no, no, no, no.

01:17:08.660 It's all indoctrination.

01:17:10.300 But who gets to choose?

01:17:11.400 I want indoctrination in schools.

01:17:13.460 I advocate for it.

01:17:15.320 I have advocated for it on Timcast IRL, and I'll advocate for it right now.

01:17:19.780 The indoctrination in schools that we want is the American flag, the Constitution, meritocracy,

01:17:25.080 individual liberties, responsibility, and personal freedoms.

01:17:27.500 Instead, what we're getting is, I would say on average, schools are mechanic, industrialized.

01:17:38.020 Yeah, you'll learn some stuff here and there, but it's really about pop culture.

01:17:41.740 And then you'll see leftist ideologies emerging, which triggers the right.

01:17:47.040 On the right, you're not getting a whole lot of only American flags allowed.

01:17:52.000 Certainly those things do happen, but you're not getting it as much.

01:17:55.620 What you typically get in schools is—

01:17:57.220 What's your measurement for that?

01:17:58.840 When you say not as much, how are you measuring how much of that there is?

01:18:02.560 Like in terms of policies that are enacted by government and schools and institutions?

01:18:05.420 Yeah, like Texas is saying that you have to have the Ten Commandments in the classroom.

01:18:08.740 Yeah.

01:18:09.160 And if somebody gives you—

01:18:10.920 Is that, did that pass?

01:18:11.660 Huh?

01:18:11.980 Did that pass?

01:18:12.600 Yeah.

01:18:13.320 And if somebody gives the district the Ten Commandments, they have to accept it, and

01:18:18.060 they have to take it.

01:18:19.260 So to get over that, a lot of people were giving the Ten Commandments in Arabic so-so.

01:18:23.120 The bill requiring Ten Commandments did not—it died.

01:18:25.160 It wasn't passed.

01:18:26.240 The House—

01:18:26.620 In Texas?

01:18:27.340 Yeah.

01:18:28.300 Texas Tribune.

01:18:29.260 This was about a year ago.

01:18:31.020 Bill requiring Ten Commandments in Texas fails in-house.

01:18:33.800 Well, then it's got to be somewhere else.

01:18:35.580 Because the problem that they encountered was people were putting it in Arabic, the Ten

01:18:39.860 Commandments in Arabic, and the districts didn't want to put those on the wall.

01:18:43.360 Ten Commandments in Arabic?

01:18:44.320 Yeah.

01:18:44.560 I'm totally fine with that.

01:18:45.500 They were putting the Ten Commandments in—people as a, like a protest, they were putting the

01:18:48.980 Ten Commandments in Arabic and giving it to the district and saying, the law says you

01:18:52.580 have to put this on the wall now, and they were like, okay, now we met the Ten Commandments

01:18:57.260 in the Christian version.

01:18:58.220 We did not mean the Arabic version.

01:19:00.220 I think this idea of this neutral world where it's like we should not have indoctrination

01:19:06.780 in schools, you should not have the pride flag or the commandments, it doesn't exist.

01:19:09.780 It's an impossibility.

01:19:10.260 Yeah.

01:19:10.340 I think there is no such thing as a value-neutral school.

01:19:13.420 There's always going to be—even if it's not an explicit set of values that the school

01:19:18.140 runs by, you're going to have people in the school that just naturally have their own

01:19:21.720 values.

01:19:22.840 And that might make its way to the students if they don't do a careful job.

01:19:27.320 I think what you guys are saying right now, from my perspective, is the opposite of America.

01:19:31.060 I feel like what America has invented and given to the world is a country where 300 million

01:19:38.300 people from all over the world who have all different languages and religions and whatnot

01:19:43.300 can live in one place together and operate a society together.

01:19:47.900 And one of the main ways that that happened through all of the 1900s is the public schooling

01:19:53.200 system took people from all around—the United States is rare and unique in that it had to

01:19:58.300 invent ways for people to live together, because we are one of the only countries that has the

01:20:04.220 population that we have, right?

01:20:06.780 You can eat a different kind of food every night, go to a different kind of festival every

01:20:10.200 week.

01:20:10.960 This is the only country that has to figure out how people live together.

01:20:14.820 It has to be our number one export.

01:20:16.260 It has to be the thing that we decide on.

01:20:18.800 How can we have systems together?

01:20:20.300 How can we share parks?

01:20:21.540 How can we share education?

01:20:23.180 How can we do democracy without killing each other, right?

01:20:25.880 You have countries where everybody looks like each other.

01:20:28.660 That's not the United States.

01:20:29.960 You have some countries where everybody's the same.

01:20:31.880 Well, it was in the 60s.

01:20:33.600 You think America was that way in the 60s?

01:20:35.980 It was 90-something percent.

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01:21:35.480 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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01:21:45.160 that we really care about you.

01:21:47.040 We care about you.

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01:21:52.500 Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

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01:22:00.920 Did I mention that we care?

01:22:04.380 White people.

01:22:07.440 I don't think it was 90%.

01:22:09.080 Well, that's a good point, too.

01:22:11.340 Because one of the ways that we decided to make sure that the Italians, DeAngelo.

01:22:14.800 Hey!

01:22:15.440 The Italians, DeAngelo.

01:22:17.520 The Italians and the Irish and the Polish and the Jews and everybody could live together

01:22:22.880 is one of the ways we got over that.

01:22:24.340 It was just, we just made all of them white.

01:22:26.180 So that's one way we got over it.

01:22:28.000 But what I think you're getting at, though, is that one way to kind of have a functioning

01:22:34.560 democracy is the argument that we have to have residentially assigned schools to do that

01:22:40.040 so that people from different backgrounds...

01:22:41.380 No, no, I didn't say that.

01:22:42.000 So it was 88.6% of the country was white in 1960, 89.3% in 1950.

01:22:49.020 I'm not saying it was good or bad.

01:22:50.740 I'm just saying that was the number.

01:22:51.860 So for a long time, this country was dominated just by, like, an overwhelming supermajority

01:22:56.300 of white people.

01:22:57.100 And now I believe white people are at, like, 70%.

01:22:59.240 What I would argue about that a little bit, though, is those people weren't always white.

01:23:03.160 That's one of the things.

01:23:04.340 Like, DeAngelo wasn't white for a long period of American history.

01:23:07.900 He was actually too swarthy to be white.

01:23:09.980 Too swarthy?

01:23:10.440 Yeah, he was too swarthy.

01:23:11.080 Look at him right now.

01:23:12.280 Look at him right now.

01:23:13.140 He was a suspicious character at one point.

01:23:15.800 Don't look up the DeAngelo's crime family.

01:23:18.180 This is not suntanning.

01:23:20.200 This is actually real.

01:23:22.800 But, I mean, if that's the case, wouldn't that actually just make this substantially deeper?

01:23:28.020 Like, what were they, all English?

01:23:28.920 Must have been higher than...

01:23:30.040 Yeah.

01:23:30.740 Must have been higher.

01:23:31.460 There were, you know, Polish, Irish, Italians, Jews.

01:23:34.300 There was a point in which I think Jews were the last ones to become white, and they became

01:23:37.080 white in the 1960s.

01:23:38.120 I think it was 1968 when Jews actually became white.

01:23:40.700 And actually, now there's like a...

01:23:41.740 Well, that's the ultimate debate.

01:23:43.340 Well, I mean...

01:23:44.020 Like, among Jewish media writers, they say, I'm not white or I am white.

01:23:48.500 It's like, not everybody agrees.

01:23:50.600 Yeah, I think, though, like, if you think about people like Al Shanker, a lot of people credit

01:23:54.800 him for making New Yorkers see that Jews were white at some point.

01:23:59.200 Up until that point, they had a very tough time in New York.

01:24:01.560 You want to do something funny?

01:24:02.120 Like, in Brazil, it's super racist.

01:24:06.060 And the whiter you are, the better you are among everybody there, even...

01:24:10.740 Within the same population.

01:24:11.820 Yeah, but even among the...

01:24:13.680 I forgot the name of the native population, the darker skinned, because it's not black

01:24:17.040 people.

01:24:17.320 They do have black people.

01:24:17.980 There's like a native...

01:24:19.120 But my friend from Brazil was explaining to me that black women proudly marry white men

01:24:27.600 and show off their white grandkids because being whiter is better culturally, or it was.

01:24:33.260 I don't know if it's still that way.

01:24:34.280 And he said it was to the point where he's like, he's like, man, I will see like two black

01:24:39.100 guys arguing over who's blacker.

01:24:41.120 It's like, that's a deeply ingrained racism they have down there.

01:24:44.260 That's global.

01:24:45.180 That's not just Brazil.

01:24:46.260 Actually, you should look up white and green.

01:24:47.960 South Korea.

01:24:48.600 Skin whitening cream.

01:24:49.680 Just look up what countries buy that.

01:24:51.500 India, Mexico, African countries.

01:24:54.920 Buy skin whitening cream.

01:24:57.000 It's not even sold here in the United States, really.

01:24:59.140 It's probably not even good for you.

01:25:00.120 It's probably really bad for you.

01:25:01.180 South Korea.

01:25:01.300 It is very bad for you.

01:25:02.080 You saw what happened to Michael Jackson, right?

01:25:03.920 Like, look at what he looked like towards the end, right?

01:25:06.700 Yes, but that was because he had...

01:25:08.600 Empatigo.

01:25:09.500 Is that what it was?

01:25:10.200 That's what they said it was.

01:25:10.940 Well, I thought it was because the Pepsi thing exploded on him and burst into flames.

01:25:14.360 Yeah, that was the reason he was bald on the top of his head.

01:25:17.060 Oh, wow.

01:25:17.380 Yeah, yeah.

01:25:17.820 That was the reason he was bald on the top.

01:25:18.220 Look at South Korea.

01:25:19.460 Yeah.

01:25:19.720 South Koreans get surgery to try and look like Europeans.

01:25:22.180 Yes.

01:25:22.600 That's creepy.

01:25:23.200 The eye surgery.

01:25:24.740 And chin.

01:25:25.520 So I just want to go back to the point, though.

01:25:27.380 Yeah, round faces.

01:25:28.860 We could be a much better country if, number one, we didn't fall for panics all the time.

01:25:33.480 Two, if we took seriously this idea that our number one export to the world is how people

01:25:37.500 should get along with each other and share a society.

01:25:39.840 We don't do that right now.

01:25:41.180 I think we do.

01:25:41.660 I don't.

01:25:42.620 I think we don't give ourselves enough credit for it.

01:25:45.260 I think we are way more mixed in our networks than people give us credit for.

01:25:50.720 I think we have way more kind of relationships with each other that don't get talked about.

01:25:56.420 We're a better country than actually what a lot of these discussions say about us, right?

01:26:01.880 And you can see it when you have a natural disaster.

01:26:04.320 That's really when you can see it the most, is when you have a natural disaster, a hurricane,

01:26:08.320 a tornado, the floods.

01:26:10.280 School closures.

01:26:12.260 Hey, I thought you were going there.

01:26:14.120 I thought you were going to the COVID stuff.

01:26:15.760 You know, yeah.

01:26:17.260 Anyways, I don't mean to be namby-pamby, but I think you get the government you deserve

01:26:21.100 and you get the country you deserve.

01:26:22.300 And I think if we keep ripping on ourselves and keep calling ourselves polarized and divided,

01:26:26.680 that's what we'll be.

01:26:27.640 But we are.

01:26:28.160 Well, I think that's a check on being polarized and divided, right?

01:26:31.240 You have me in your house right now.

01:26:33.220 You have me in your place right now.

01:26:35.060 This is something that at a certain point-

01:26:36.500 Well, this is not my house.

01:26:38.440 Well, this is your house, right?

01:26:40.860 Right, right, right.

01:26:41.140 It's not your living quarters, but this is yours.

01:26:43.340 This is all yours, right?

01:26:44.620 Yeah.

01:26:45.140 So there was a point in time where this wouldn't happen, right?

01:26:49.580 When?

01:26:49.940 What do you mean?

01:26:50.420 Well, you know, there was a point in times where we were, I think, a lot more cordoned off,

01:26:55.440 partitioned from each other, especially in social ways.

01:26:57.760 So-

01:26:58.260 Pre-Loving v.

01:26:58.900 Virginia.

01:27:00.200 Yeah.

01:27:00.820 And even in my lifetime, you know, I grew up in New Orleans.

01:27:02.920 There was parts of New Orleans that actually stayed pretty segregated for a long period

01:27:06.280 of time.

01:27:06.580 Everything is still segregated in this country.

01:27:08.240 Yeah.

01:27:08.520 Yeah.

01:27:08.680 Like Chicago.

01:27:09.720 Yeah.

01:27:10.020 When you look at the last mayoral election, it's just, this is wild.

01:27:16.240 People voted for race, not candidate.

01:27:17.840 With Brandon.

01:27:18.520 Brandon.

01:27:18.740 Yeah.

01:27:19.200 The only reason Brandon Johnson won is because-

01:27:21.900 And it was close too, 48, 52.

01:27:23.780 White, the only demographic that broke from the race voting was white liberal young progressives.

01:27:29.900 You call that white race voting?

01:27:32.220 So the, the, if you look at the actual demographic breakdown of elections, the Latino neighborhoods

01:27:38.000 voted for the Latino candidate.

01:27:39.080 The white neighborhoods voted for white candidate.

01:27:40.540 The black neighborhoods only voted for the black candidates.

01:27:43.120 So it's like the white, the white Latino candidates don't even appear on their top three.

01:27:46.860 The top three were all black.

01:27:48.160 And then you look at the Loyola area, which is younger white progressives voted for Brandon

01:27:52.880 Johnson.

01:27:53.600 And so that's what got him the win is that, although I think Johnson was not leading in

01:27:58.460 the black neighborhoods because he was like typically second or third, plus the white votes

01:28:02.940 from the, um, from the progressive area, that was what put them over the edge.

01:28:07.160 But overwhelmingly, I mean, it's, it's shocking.

01:28:09.800 If you look at Chicago and you go by, I pulled up two maps, racial demographics of Chicago

01:28:15.140 by, by neighborhood and voting by neighborhood.

01:28:18.400 And it is absolute, except for the progressive area.

01:28:21.960 The white neighborhoods vote for the white guy, Latino for the Latino guy and black neighborhoods

01:28:25.320 for the black guy.

01:28:25.880 And I'm like, that's bad.

01:28:27.000 We, we, we, we, like that shouldn't be how we're voting, but that's, so the only ones

01:28:31.260 that broke from that were the, uh, were the socialists.

01:28:33.260 And I'm like, oh, well, come on, that's not better.

01:28:35.300 Now we got socialists.

01:28:37.360 So, so Chris, you're good with charter schools, right?

01:28:39.680 What's that?

01:28:40.180 You're good with charter schools?

01:28:41.240 I love charter schools.

01:28:42.060 Okay.

01:28:42.280 So, yeah, I think there's something we agree on.

01:28:44.440 So, those are public school choice.

01:28:46.280 I really appreciate public school choice.

01:28:48.060 Okay, there we go.

01:28:48.560 Public school choice.

01:28:49.420 All right, we'll take it.

01:28:50.680 Um, yeah, so we've talked a lot about, you know, like just disagreements and, you know,

01:28:57.320 um, we've disagreed about how often things are happening in the public school system.

01:29:03.040 And I think, you know, I haven't really received an answer from you.

01:29:06.500 Like if it isn't happening that much, let's say it's only really happening 0.1% of the time.

01:29:13.340 What's the it?

01:29:17.120 Ideological, it's a whole umbrella of ideological disagreements in the public schools.

01:29:21.580 On the trans thing specifically?

01:29:23.640 Any type of ideological disagreement that you might believe is being amplified by certain segments of the media, right?

01:29:32.040 Um, if it isn't happening that much, shouldn't school choice not be a big threat to the public schools since, hey, if everybody likes their own public school, they're still going to send their kids there.

01:29:43.840 Or it's, there should only be maybe 1% of the population that actually votes with their feet and has the money follow the child.

01:29:51.700 Um, you know, shouldn't it really not be that big of an issue?

01:29:55.260 I guess that's one, one set of the questions.

01:29:57.660 And then two, um, you know, for those families that are in objectively failing schools academically, or maybe the kids getting bullied, or maybe there's some other thing that whether or not it's a widespread thing nationwide, should that small percentage of families have that choice to go to a safer school or to whatever schools works better for them than the assigned one?

01:30:22.040 Um, so, so I'd say yes to that.

01:30:26.180 Like, we should always create avenues for, um, young people that need different environments.

01:30:30.140 And we do that through the public school system right now.

01:30:32.060 We do it through magnet schools.

01:30:33.180 You went to a very good magnet school and you're Dr. DeAngelis.

01:30:36.020 Um, I just want to keep pointing that out.

01:30:37.960 Despite, despite the public school education.

01:30:39.240 Not despite, because of the public school, the free public education system.

01:30:42.120 I don't know, we don't know the counterfactual.

01:30:44.160 I could have done better in a homeschool setting.

01:30:45.860 Yeah, you could have, but you didn't.

01:30:47.620 You're Dr. Corey DeAngelis and you went to magnet school.

01:30:50.160 We do it with charter schools.

01:30:51.300 We do it with open enrollment, PSEO, um, dual enrollment and all those, those types of things.

01:30:55.860 So we have ALCs, alternative learning systems, right?

01:30:58.620 We have to stop talking about the system as if it's one system.

01:31:02.860 It is not one system.

01:31:04.180 It is a United States with a hundred thousand different schools and 14,000 different school

01:31:08.860 districts that have wildly different things going on and different options depending on

01:31:13.520 the local kind of need, right?

01:31:15.620 So, so we already have a lot of choice.

01:31:17.120 The problem with choice that I'm having right now probably is a couple of things.

01:31:20.400 Specifically with you, Corey, right?

01:31:22.920 So the first, the first thing is number one, I said it before.

01:31:25.960 It's not an educational intervention.

01:31:28.100 We need an intervention in our schools.

01:31:30.240 Kids were doing better under NCLB.

01:31:32.460 For that period of time, they were just doing better that everything was going up.

01:31:35.740 When we had bipartisan agreement on the fact that data matters and teaching matters and

01:31:40.840 the curriculum matters, that's what the education discussion is, right?

01:31:44.280 When you get to the choice thing, two problems with that.

01:31:47.680 Number one is that you guys broke off from the multicultural school choice movement and

01:31:52.660 started selling it as anti-woke.

01:31:54.980 And when you did that, you threw a lot of us under the bus.

01:31:58.220 We were a multiracial, multicultural, bipartisan movement.

01:32:02.480 And then at some point, that conversation you talked about with Steve Perry, you told me

01:32:07.280 specifically that you weren't going to sell this with the anti-woke stuff.

01:32:11.400 And then you went on to do this kind of white-only type of thing.

01:32:15.960 This movement threw a lot of people-

01:32:17.040 I've never done a white-only type of thing.

01:32:20.200 That's the whole thing we're going for.

01:32:21.600 You can't say that.

01:32:23.000 He is swarthy.

01:32:23.640 This is true.

01:32:24.280 This is true.

01:32:24.980 This is true.

01:32:25.460 I've been consistent, and I said it on the show today, that if people want to go to a

01:32:30.640 school that has CRT, that should be the parents' decision, and we shouldn't all be forced into

01:32:35.380 a one.

01:32:35.720 So I've said it a couple times on the show today.

01:32:37.340 But you didn't use to-

01:32:38.180 You didn't do what Milton Friedman did.

01:32:40.620 You didn't use to sell it as a way for white people to get away from those other people,

01:32:44.920 the anti-woke thing.

01:32:46.820 So we used to sell-

01:32:48.040 Well, there's a big difference between anti-woke and white people trying to escape.

01:32:51.100 Yeah, exactly.

01:32:51.940 Not in education.

01:32:53.260 Yes.

01:32:53.460 In education, when you're telling people the way to get away from those other people

01:32:56.600 is to get this coupon to get out of the school, that is not the way that we used to sell

01:33:01.020 school choice.

01:33:01.860 That's strong, man.

01:33:02.800 That is not a fair argument.

01:33:04.800 No, it's a real thing.

01:33:05.880 It's a real thing.

01:33:06.800 This is a real thing.

01:33:07.880 My argument has not been about getting away from those people.

01:33:11.020 It's about going to a school that aligns with your values and has curriculum that's aligned

01:33:15.100 with your values.

01:33:16.000 And a lot of the times, it's talked about in terms of the schools focusing on the basics

01:33:19.980 and not having any type of political injection into the classroom.

01:33:21.700 So literally, and you know this, Corey.

01:33:23.460 So literally, there was a research study put out by the Heritage Foundation a couple years

01:33:27.160 ago that basically said, we've been trying to sell school choice as a multicultural, bipartisan

01:33:33.180 thing for too long.

01:33:34.400 We actually should go hard on the people who matter most.

01:33:37.700 That's a political-

01:33:41.400 Who are the people that mattered most?

01:33:42.520 This is a seminal piece of research.

01:33:45.160 Rich people.

01:33:45.880 No, it was Republicans.

01:33:47.420 Republicans and white moms.

01:33:48.920 White suburban moms, right?

01:33:50.400 So we used to be part of a school choice movement now.

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01:34:51.020 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

01:34:56.960 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

01:35:01.560 our clients that we really care about you!

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01:35:18.260 Did I mention that we care?

01:35:21.020 Nationally, that was everybody.

01:35:24.520 Black schools for black kids if they need it, and we can get vouchers, and we could start

01:35:29.060 our own schools, and we'll create our own solutions, and we'll be able to have self-determination.

01:35:33.440 And if you want something else, you know, like, so was the everybody movement.

01:35:37.360 It became, at some point, this movement of, we should just go for white moms.

01:35:41.200 It is still an everybody movement.

01:35:43.080 Everybody can still have the choice to take their kids' education dollars to the public

01:35:46.560 or private school.

01:35:47.280 It works best for them.

01:35:48.220 It, what's interesting is that before these bills weren't passing, we didn't have a universal

01:35:54.100 school choice program before 2021.

01:35:56.560 It has been on the Republican Party platform since before COVID already, but, you know,

01:36:01.980 it wasn't really passing even in red states.

01:36:03.980 And now we have 11 states with the universal school choice that have passed with Republican-led

01:36:12.540 legislatures, so red states.

01:36:14.200 I think that's when you kind of jumped ship on the movement.

01:36:19.160 It's like, you saw that the Republicans were passing this, so I can't be for this anymore.

01:36:22.920 No.

01:36:24.040 Because at the very same time...

01:36:25.500 And I think the point of the heritage...

01:36:26.680 At the very same time that all those were passing, it was packaged in these education censorship

01:36:32.000 laws that were pulling black books off the shelf and rewriting black history.

01:36:35.960 And I said to people like you and others, I don't know why we need to sell school choice

01:36:40.060 that way.

01:36:41.140 I do not know this is still...

01:36:41.760 So you don't have an issue with the policy itself.

01:36:44.520 It's the wrong people are pushing the policy, and they're marketing in it the wrong way.

01:36:49.540 So we agree still on the policy...

01:36:51.860 That's not true either, though.

01:36:53.180 If the Democrats were pushing it, you'd support it.

01:36:55.940 No, no.

01:36:56.500 No, and I'm not a Democrat, and you know that.

01:36:59.400 So here's the thing.

01:37:02.360 If people you agreed with were pushing it, you'd support it.

01:37:05.400 You can't push educational freedom as you are pushing education censorship laws.

01:37:10.540 Those two things just don't fit.

01:37:11.780 That's oil and water.

01:37:12.580 You just can't make that happen.

01:37:13.660 What education censorship laws?

01:37:15.620 You can't have those books in the libraries.

01:37:17.940 No, stop woke act, right?

01:37:19.540 The rewriting of...

01:37:21.060 The outlawing of entire thought systems, right?

01:37:23.740 We don't like this thought system, so we're going to outlaw it, right?

01:37:26.680 That, to me, is education censorship and gag orders.

01:37:29.600 When you're setting up teacher hotlines so that people can snitch on teachers if they

01:37:33.700 teach something that feels divisive...

01:37:35.700 So if that wasn't happening in these states, you would support school choice?

01:37:39.260 No, so this...

01:37:39.540 Because that's when you kind of divided, right?

01:37:41.700 You kind of started disagreeing when you saw the anti-CRT bills, the book...

01:37:48.700 When I started seeing the negative tail of what this was going to mean for my community,

01:37:53.920 that's when I broke off.

01:37:55.780 And actually, here's a couple of places where it became a negative tail.

01:37:59.540 When you made it universal for everybody, including people who weren't in the system already,

01:38:03.800 who were in private schools, that actually started a dilution process of what this was

01:38:07.660 going to mean for everybody else still in the school system.

01:38:09.720 When you have people who are able to access even the private school market now, the black

01:38:15.600 private school market, the market and opportunities for low-income kids, and the black market is

01:38:20.920 going to be way different than it is for the more affluent people, right?

01:38:24.480 You know that, and I know that.

01:38:25.780 It's going to take a while to build up a market.

01:38:28.060 Yeah.

01:38:28.420 Yeah.

01:38:28.720 This is why Denisha at Black Minds Matter tracks all the black school...

01:38:32.360 It's going to take a long time to get there.

01:38:34.600 So the Stop Woke Act you mentioned, right?

01:38:36.520 Yeah.

01:38:36.860 I'm for censorship of certain things.

01:38:39.200 For instance, I would say, I think one of the big mistakes DeSantis made is you don't

01:38:44.380 need the Stop Woke Act to stop books like this because this book is already illegal under

01:38:49.640 the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

01:38:52.000 You literally cannot accuse white or any other race of being inherently wrong, bad, evil, demonic,

01:38:59.720 devilish or whatever.

01:39:00.660 Yeah, yeah, yeah, basically.

01:39:01.280 So we showed this to Marianne Williamson.

01:39:03.200 She nearly cried.

01:39:04.540 Marianne Wilson.

01:39:05.280 She ran for president a couple of times.

01:39:07.520 She's a big author.

01:39:08.520 Oh, the Crystal Lady?

01:39:09.340 Minnesota?

01:39:09.780 The Crystals and all that.

01:39:10.380 Well, they call her...

01:39:11.120 But she has no Crystals.

01:39:12.080 She's never had Crystals, but they do call her the Crystal Lady because they're trying

01:39:16.180 to insult her.

01:39:16.520 Should I make that up?

01:39:17.580 So Marianne Williamson is like the self-help progressive.

01:39:23.120 She was running in 2020, and the media attacked her as a Crystal Lady.

01:39:27.500 It's much like Trump says low energy, much like he says lie in Ted.

01:39:32.820 Crystal Lady was a way to associate her character and poison the well.

01:39:37.260 But poor Marianne Williamson.

01:39:39.180 She's like, I don't own any Crystals.

01:39:41.180 I don't understand why they're saying this about me.

01:39:43.620 So she's a progressive.

01:39:44.560 Somehow I just picked it up.

01:39:45.820 I don't know.

01:39:46.100 The media ran the story.

01:39:47.360 She's a progressive.

01:39:48.580 She's currently still running, I believe.

01:39:50.200 I don't know.

01:39:50.420 She dropped out, then came back.

01:39:51.880 She came on the show, and she said, banning these books is wrong.

01:39:55.880 And I said, how about this one?

01:39:57.340 And she looked at it.

01:39:58.280 She looked confused.

01:39:59.100 She had never seen it before, and she was on the verge of tears.

01:40:02.440 Because this is from a book called Not My Idea, which we had a woman named Asra Nomani

01:40:08.400 come on.

01:40:08.840 Do you know?

01:40:09.480 Asra, Parents Defending Education, which she's now somewhere else.

01:40:12.200 She brought a stack of books, which were so shockingly racist, saying things like black

01:40:18.220 people could not succeed.

01:40:19.720 I don't know why they would tell kids this.

01:40:21.300 What book was that?

01:40:21.840 I don't remember specifically.

01:40:23.180 They had, they don't say, I'm being a bit hyperbolic.

01:40:26.820 They say things like, it will be harder for you to succeed because you are black, and you

01:40:31.000 will be stopped and held back.

01:40:33.180 And it's true.

01:40:34.500 But look, whatever, whatever.

01:40:36.400 That's not telling black kids that they can't succeed.

01:40:38.980 That's black parents actually parenting black kids in the United States, and we should be

01:40:43.340 the ones that determine whether or not our message is right for them.

01:40:46.560 I don't think that should be allowed in schools.

01:40:47.640 And should the schools be doing it, though?

01:40:48.760 Should parents be doing it?

01:40:49.800 I don't think somebody else should decide that for me, so.

01:40:52.260 I don't think, well, it's illegal under the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

01:40:55.360 Part of the way that you frame it can make it illegal, but I don't think that the hate

01:40:58.440 you give as a book should be pulled from the bookshelf because one white woman doesn't

01:41:01.900 like that type of material in the school district.

01:41:03.580 I don't believe that we should be allowed to present books that disparage positively or

01:41:10.900 negatively discriminate against races.

01:41:12.400 And I don't think that that should lead white people to pull black books off the shelves

01:41:15.820 that they disagree with and take it away from my kid to even be able to access it in the

01:41:20.020 library.

01:41:20.640 From a public school that you can have it in-

01:41:23.580 In a public library, which is different from the book.

01:41:25.080 Yeah.

01:41:25.100 But a school curriculum where they're giving it to kids-

01:41:27.860 They took off the biography of Ruby Bridges.

01:41:30.720 There's a white woman in Florida who has done-

01:41:33.460 Yeah, but nobody agrees with that.

01:41:34.260 Who has done, like, you know, people do agree with what you're talking about.

01:41:36.840 I'm saying in the principal argument, you can isolate bad things we don't like, and

01:41:42.140 you bring that up and we'll say, agreed, that was bad.

01:41:44.140 Now, as for the calling white people devils, that should not be allowed.

01:41:47.900 So you think this is more important as a problem than AP, black history being rewritten, but

01:41:54.440 AP, European history being left alone just the way that it is right now.

01:41:58.680 What do you mean being rewritten?

01:41:59.860 You know what I mean by being rewritten.

01:42:01.040 No, no, no, give me an example.

01:42:01.940 I don't know what you're talking about.

01:42:02.460 They pulled out very specific scholars, and they replaced them with scholars that they

01:42:06.740 thought were more appropriate for black people to learn from, meaning that they were more

01:42:12.020 conservative scholars.

01:42:12.840 But who did it?

01:42:14.560 DeSantis had a commission of people that worked on this.

01:42:17.660 So they actually worked on attacking those specific standards, and they left all the other

01:42:22.360 ones whole.

01:42:22.960 So they left the European standards and everything just the way that they were.

01:42:26.380 So if you're a white kid and you're in Florida, you can go and get that, and it's just the

01:42:30.160 way it's supposed to be.

01:42:30.760 And I think the issue is-

01:42:32.320 So with black kids-

01:42:34.040 Right.

01:42:34.700 What we end up seeing are-

01:42:36.040 You know, it's just different.

01:42:37.000 So this is an egregious example that we can easily pull up because it's easily discernible

01:42:40.800 to the average person why it's wrong, illegal, and shouldn't be allowed in schools.

01:42:44.380 And then we end up with our things like Kimberly Crenshaw and Derek Bell, where many people

01:42:49.280 aren't familiar with their writings, which I also believe should not be allowed in grade

01:42:52.760 school curriculum, if schools want to teach CRT in a broad sense of this is what CRT is,

01:42:58.860 totally fine.

01:42:59.880 I don't think that's appropriate for kids.

01:43:01.540 But this was the game that-

01:43:02.880 I don't think it's appropriate for kids to learn a major, whether I agree with it or

01:43:06.860 not, I don't even want to say, but to learn major thought systems?

01:43:11.420 Major, what do you mean?

01:43:13.200 I mean, like even like, I'm not a Marxist, but I have no problem with my kid.

01:43:17.200 Like, my kid-

01:43:18.580 It depends on how it's taught.

01:43:19.780 It depends on how it's taught, right?

01:43:21.500 Listen, we're not going to have a sixth grade philosophy of Marxist thought class.

01:43:25.560 If you want it in high school, start getting into this stuff, they can-

01:43:28.600 I have no problem with sixth graders learning about how Marx was influential in the Soviet

01:43:31.720 Union, if they're doing social studies in history.

01:43:34.320 But to sit down and go through the nuances of critical theory, gender theory, race theory

01:43:38.940 with fifth and sixth graders, I'm like, a little bit-

01:43:41.980 And this was the woke argument.

01:43:43.640 The left said, no one thinks college level legal classes should be taught to children.

01:43:49.020 And then we're going, that's not what they're doing.

01:43:51.520 Now, the problem is conservatives tend to be reactionary.

01:43:57.140 And so what you get is people who don't actually know the deeper layers of what's going on.

01:44:02.100 They didn't know.

01:44:03.880 It's not critical race theory in schools.

01:44:05.840 It's critical race praxis in schools.

01:44:08.500 Praxis, for instance, is what should be banned.

01:44:10.700 And that's when, and this is what Astra Nomadi brought in when she brought in these books.

01:44:15.100 There was one, it's hilarious.

01:44:17.320 It's like, it's a math book and you're learning math problems.

01:44:20.960 And remember the famous math problems where it's like a train leaves Pittsburgh traveling

01:44:24.000 at 70 miles an hour and a train leaves Philadelphia.

01:44:26.020 At what point will the trains collide?

01:44:28.440 This one said, Jimmy is stopped by the police two times in one year.

01:44:32.340 And Jamal is stopped 17 times in one year.

01:44:34.860 What percentage of police stops affected black people disproportionately?

01:44:37.900 And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what the fuck?

01:44:40.060 I'm not just focused on math.

01:44:41.260 That's not math.

01:44:42.160 That's praxis.

01:44:42.920 You are injecting ideological positions in a math book to create a worldview among a group

01:44:50.820 of people that is not teaching them math.

01:44:52.700 That should not be allowed.

01:44:54.600 This should not be allowed.

01:44:55.780 So on that point, I'll just add for reference.

01:44:58.520 That didn't come from CRT.

01:44:59.860 And it didn't even come from praxis.

01:45:01.340 That actually came out of your city, Chicago.

01:45:03.860 That came from Ruby Payne, who made hundreds of millions of dollars selling Chicago public

01:45:10.540 schools and then public schools all across the country, something called Culture of Poverty

01:45:15.500 Studies.

01:45:16.740 And it even had scripts in it on how you should talk to black people and how you should talk

01:45:20.820 to low-income people.

01:45:24.240 And they sold this to school districts all across the country, right?

01:45:26.860 And she made a lot of money.

01:45:27.760 She had only been a teacher in Chicago for a short amount of time when she was selling

01:45:30.920 it.

01:45:31.020 Just for reference.

01:45:31.960 We'll put it this way.

01:45:32.900 The idea that going to the original core of Crenshaw's argument, Karl Marx didn't understand

01:45:41.220 racial dynamics in the United States.

01:45:42.720 So the idea of a class-based oppression system overlooked race because the United States has

01:45:47.560 a race-based oppression system.

01:45:49.200 Therefore, critical race theory must be brought.

01:45:52.740 And now you have in schools things like this, the idea of the oppressed versus oppressor,

01:45:57.120 where they quite literally have the, they call it the progressive stack.

01:46:02.220 Are you familiar with progressive stack?

01:46:03.320 No.

01:46:03.780 This is where your ability to speak is determined based on your identity.

01:46:09.200 So-

01:46:09.280 The oppression matrix.

01:46:10.980 Yeah.

01:46:11.640 Like, right.

01:46:12.280 The oppression matrix is a better way to put it when they're doing it academically.

01:46:15.080 Progressive stack is the public, is the real world application of if you raise your

01:46:20.260 hand to speak and you are white, you go last.

01:46:22.260 If you're a white woman, you go before the white men.

01:46:24.060 If you're a gay white woman, you go before the straight white woman.

01:46:26.820 If you're a gay man, you still have to go after the gay woman, but before the other

01:46:30.620 woman.

01:46:31.180 And if you're black and gay and trans, now you're first in line.

01:46:34.940 So Chris, you don't, you don't agree with, with that being implemented in all public schools.

01:46:39.120 I'm saying it's not happening in K-12 schools.

01:46:40.760 I'm saying it's a manufactured panic.

01:46:42.800 So, but in the rare cases that it is, let's say it's rare.

01:46:46.920 I'm not sure.

01:46:47.560 I got it.

01:46:47.960 I got it.

01:46:48.200 I got it.

01:46:48.800 I got an idea.

01:46:49.700 It's not happening.

01:46:50.840 It's not happening.

01:46:51.400 Let's ban it.

01:46:52.000 Let's, let's come, deal.

01:46:54.080 Let's write up legislation saying you can't do these things and we'll all agree to sign

01:46:58.080 off on it.

01:46:58.480 And then we're done with the issue.

01:46:59.500 It doesn't change anything.

01:47:00.000 Yeah.

01:47:00.220 So, so why would, why would we ban, why would we spend all of our time on these hypotheticals?

01:47:04.980 Well, you win the argument.

01:47:06.080 No, no, you don't really win the argument.

01:47:06.980 No, no, no.

01:47:07.300 You, you win.

01:47:08.320 No, no.

01:47:08.680 This is not.

01:47:09.260 What do you mean?

01:47:09.680 This is not an argument.

01:47:11.700 This to me is a distraction.

01:47:13.980 Exactly.

01:47:14.480 This is a big distraction.

01:47:14.940 And you have an opportunity right now to end the distraction by writing a bill to ban

01:47:19.080 something that you think doesn't happen.

01:47:20.280 By banning like, like what local school districts actually do with their curriculum?

01:47:25.120 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:47:25.840 So we're talking about saying that there's a class, a race-based class hierarchy and that

01:47:32.540 schools utilize this in their curriculum.

01:47:35.300 You say it doesn't happen.

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01:49:00.260 Did I mention that we care?

01:49:04.220 So, what's, yeah.

01:49:05.740 If it's not happening, let's just be done with the distraction and you can easily prove

01:49:10.440 all these conservatives be like, fine, draft the bill, we'll sign it and we win.

01:49:13.560 We're done.

01:49:13.680 I don't know that that's 100% what I was saying doesn't happen.

01:49:16.460 But what I will say is this.

01:49:17.980 There's a difference between San Francisco and Idaho, right?

01:49:22.660 There's a difference between, there are these things, they're called school boards.

01:49:25.760 And there are these other things that are called superintendents.

01:49:29.000 And there are these things called state laws that allow local school districts to decide

01:49:33.040 for themselves what's the community standard for their particular curriculum.

01:49:36.780 And if you want to have a problem with any of these things, you don't go on Fox News,

01:49:40.900 you go to your school board and you start saying, I have a problem with these things.

01:49:44.740 And then you end up on a curriculum committee.

01:49:47.040 Or they silence your mic because you're reading from those books and they want to have the books

01:49:51.040 in the classroom.

01:49:51.120 I was a school board member.

01:49:52.160 I'm not going to do the Fox News line.

01:49:54.120 When you actually sit on a school board and you actually look at how these things happen,

01:49:57.900 there is a process for all these things.

01:49:59.340 And it's based upon local community stuff.

01:50:01.340 So it is very different in Seattle and San Francisco than what you're going to get in

01:50:05.840 my state.

01:50:06.400 Let me ask you, do you think schools should be allowed to create white racial affinity

01:50:12.520 groups where the white kids can keep out any other, any other person they can come together

01:50:17.460 to learn white history?

01:50:18.760 That would be a bad thing.

01:50:20.160 Well, that's what they're doing in Sacramento.

01:50:21.280 And this was a huge issue going back a few years.

01:50:22.920 You're saying that would be bad?

01:50:24.280 That if white kids had like a white support group?

01:50:27.240 Yeah.

01:50:27.780 White support group.

01:50:28.820 They're called racial affinity groups.

01:50:30.260 Yeah.

01:50:30.580 And in Sacramento, they created white racial affinity groups where white kids could come

01:50:34.140 together to learn white history and what it means to be a white person.

01:50:38.440 And only white people are allowed to be in it.

01:50:40.200 I think that is a bad thing.

01:50:41.440 Why do you think that's a bad thing?

01:50:42.640 I actually, I think we want to oppose racial segregation.

01:50:47.360 I think California's attempts at creating and legalizing-

01:50:51.100 That's not segregation, though.

01:50:52.280 Saying that a white only group is not segregation?

01:50:55.600 Well, segregation is a legal term.

01:50:58.740 What people do in there-

01:50:59.720 Oh, right.

01:51:00.000 You're saying so they'd have to create a black only at the same time to create-

01:51:03.440 There probably is a black one and there's probably a gay one and there's probably-

01:51:06.380 That's segregation.

01:51:07.040 Well, I mean, okay.

01:51:09.180 So let's stick with that for a second.

01:51:11.200 In Washington, D.C., they wanted to start an all-boys school because they thought that

01:51:15.360 black boys were falling behind in D.C.

01:51:17.260 And they thought that they needed a school where they could concentrate and focus on them

01:51:21.080 becoming successful.

01:51:22.200 There was one city council member who said, that's segregation.

01:51:25.100 You can't do that.

01:51:26.140 By gender?

01:51:26.860 Sex segregation?

01:51:27.400 Huh?

01:51:27.660 Yeah, it was by gender.

01:51:29.060 It was going to end up being black boys with a bunch of kind of like-

01:51:32.180 I mean, there's a lot of all-boys, a lot of all-girls schools.

01:51:33.780 I'm for sex segregation.

01:51:35.140 I'm opposed to racial segregation.

01:51:36.060 Yeah.

01:51:36.300 You can be one further to the other and not the other.

01:51:39.360 Yeah.

01:51:39.620 I mean, but it's segregation still, right?

01:51:41.480 No, no, no, no, no.

01:51:42.220 I mean, it's still segregation still.

01:51:42.940 Racial segregation is meaningless.

01:51:45.460 It is stupid people looking at someone and being like, I know nothing about you, but

01:51:50.240 I've hereby decided.

01:51:51.820 Biological sex is a thing.

01:51:53.280 And there are reasons why males and females sometimes and sometimes not prefer to be separated.

01:51:57.840 And there's a reason why-

01:51:59.020 Play sports together or not.

01:51:59.860 But there's a reason why there are many-

01:52:01.420 A guy got arrested at Planet Fitness the other day.

01:52:04.020 So you don't believe that people in certain racial groups are having different experiences

01:52:08.620 in the United States?

01:52:09.740 Of course they are.

01:52:10.620 Okay.

01:52:10.880 So then-

01:52:11.520 And I don't think that the government should, I don't think there should be, like if a private

01:52:19.360 club existed called, like, the Black Men's Club for Magic the Gathering players, I'd

01:52:23.020 be like, well, you know, by all means, you know what I mean?

01:52:26.280 But if a school or a public accommodation, like a cafe, nah, not allowed.

01:52:31.940 Not allowed.

01:52:32.400 Sex segregation, totally fine with.

01:52:34.280 If someone wanted to make a female-only gym, I'd say like, well, you know, okay, that's

01:52:38.080 fine.

01:52:38.200 That makes sense, yeah.

01:52:38.620 Because I think sex segregation is rooted in science and facts, and it makes sense.

01:52:44.100 So what if you have, like, a population, this is something we face in Minnesota a lot.

01:52:47.680 We have a large Somali population, we have a large Hmong population, and in their schools

01:52:53.340 they felt like they weren't being well-served, and we also have a large Native American population.

01:52:57.280 And one of the things that they were worried about was that they were losing their language.

01:53:00.140 So you had kids that actually could speak English, and they were losing their kind of traditional

01:53:04.580 languages, so the school district set up different academies for the families that were afraid

01:53:10.120 that they were losing their culture.

01:53:11.200 Well, so long as any race is allowed to go to those academies, there's no issue.

01:53:14.240 Like in the Hmongland, it did end up having some black kids there, but we do have a local

01:53:18.580 person that actually is for integration, and he opposed all of those.

01:53:22.720 And he wanted to actually...

01:53:24.360 That's a different argument.

01:53:25.040 This is a lawsuit in Minnesota.

01:53:26.820 This is a lawsuit.

01:53:28.320 They want to pass a law that means that if black charter schools don't attract more white

01:53:33.880 kids, they will lose their money.

01:53:36.020 This happened in Connecticut.

01:53:37.420 They will lose their money for the school if they don't attract more white kids.

01:53:39.780 So long as they say, we do not bar anyone, then I don't care what the makeup is.

01:53:44.460 And they don't bar.

01:53:45.200 It's mostly black.

01:53:46.280 It's really black, but they don't bar anybody.

01:53:48.520 In Connecticut, they had a magnet school that said that you had to have 25% of your student

01:53:54.700 population either be white or Asian.

01:53:57.960 And in the inner city, they were getting up to over 75% black population.

01:54:02.660 And so they had empty seats.

01:54:06.320 And if a black person wanted to go to that school, too bad.

01:54:09.200 We don't have enough white people there.

01:54:10.420 That's ridiculous.

01:54:11.520 They lost that case.

01:54:12.860 They lost that case.

01:54:13.400 If there was a school and it was called Black Americans Academy for Excellence, and it was

01:54:18.620 100% black, and a white guy showed up and said, I think my kids would learn from you,

01:54:24.540 and I'd love to have them.

01:54:25.500 And they said, that would be fantastic.

01:54:26.560 By all means, come on in.

01:54:27.500 That's great.

01:54:28.000 That's fantastic.

01:54:28.420 Did you know that there are certain historically black colleges that actually are all white

01:54:32.900 now?

01:54:34.780 And did you know that Morehouse, actually, I think it was Morehouse, had a white valedictorian?

01:54:39.820 Wow.

01:54:39.980 It was groundbreaking.

01:54:41.220 And it was not a problem at all.

01:54:42.400 This is one of the most popular guys in the school.

01:54:44.780 And he had no problem going to a historically black college.

01:54:46.860 If someone wanted to set up a school, like a university, I don't know, public schools

01:54:51.800 are different.

01:54:52.400 But if there was like an academy, a university, a charter school that was centered specifically

01:54:56.560 around black scholars, black history, or even Asian or Latino or whatever, I have no

01:55:02.300 problem whatsoever, so long as they don't bar people or require quotas based on race.

01:55:08.840 I think that is all bad.

01:55:09.980 If we really want to have this big melting pot, we need to say that people are welcome

01:55:16.520 to learn from each other and not exclude them.

01:55:19.420 The worrying thing to me is like when I was covering the BLM stuff, I was in St. Louis,

01:55:25.060 I was in Ferguson.

01:55:26.700 When I was in Ferguson, I was in Baltimore.

01:55:29.160 And Ferguson, for example, had at their organizing space a black diaspora only room.

01:55:36.000 And so I'm like, here they say, please, everyone, come one, come all.

01:55:38.540 We want to end racism.

01:55:39.240 And this room to your right is only for black people.

01:55:41.960 No one else can go in.

01:55:43.360 And I'm like, well, that's just a different kind of racism.

01:55:46.320 That's just more racial segregation.

01:55:47.800 You think that's racism?

01:55:48.840 Yes.

01:55:49.420 Really?

01:55:50.280 Well, yeah, it's discrimination based on race.

01:55:52.320 Yeah, that's not what racism is.

01:55:53.740 It is.

01:55:54.260 No, it's not.

01:55:54.700 How else would you define it?

01:55:55.660 How else would you define it?

01:55:56.580 You can change the definition all you want, but there is an Oxford dictionary definition.

01:56:00.120 No, no, it wouldn't be changing your definition.

01:56:02.040 Positive or negative discrimination based on race.

01:56:04.080 Or the presumption that one race is better than the other.

01:56:05.580 But I want to hear what the other definition is, because that's how I would define it, too.

01:56:09.080 Just if you're saying, because you are this race, I'm going to have a certain feeling about you because you're this or that or the other race.

01:56:17.200 So it's based on, I don't know how else you would define it, right?

01:56:20.620 Yeah.

01:56:20.960 America is a racial caste system and has been from the very beginning.

01:56:23.980 So there were laws that were passed all along that actually created the caste system.

01:56:28.280 And it's the reason why you have a legacy of differences in different populations in the United States with almost always black being on the bottom and the white being on the top and then some other groups actually in the totem, in the racial totem.

01:56:40.980 And that actually wasn't an accident.

01:56:42.460 That was actually structural.

01:56:43.500 And that is what racism is.

01:56:45.040 Racism is the intentional system of a racial hierarchy.

01:56:48.320 You made that up.

01:56:48.940 No, I didn't make that up.

01:56:49.940 That actually was the original definition of racism.

01:56:53.960 But that's made up.

01:56:54.840 No, it's not.

01:56:55.180 So would you define it?

01:56:56.280 It's not.

01:56:56.940 It's not.

01:56:57.400 It literally is not.

01:56:58.220 So it's built into the system.

01:57:00.300 When you talk about things like eugenics and the science of eugenics and where that came from and how they were ordering the races,

01:57:05.820 and when you start talking about scientific racism and the origins of those things, that actually is not made up.

01:57:14.000 That actually was like a show way.

01:57:15.700 Let me clarify the idea of making – so words are used, and I shouldn't have to say this, to convey meaning.

01:57:22.600 And that means that when there is a group of people that use a word, we try to understand what idea is being conveyed by that word.

01:57:29.460 Okay, throughout my entire life and in most historical context, and according to Oxford, what you said does not align with the typical English use of the word racism.

01:57:39.920 Now, there is an academic leftist worldview of institutionalized or systems of power based on oppression or whatever,

01:57:47.560 but that is an atypical fringe definition that the average person doesn't understand.

01:57:52.460 So if we're talking about how to define a word, I look at this and I say, this is a blue bottle.

01:57:56.500 And you say, no, it's not.

01:57:57.440 It's a deep tangent aquamarine.

01:58:01.980 And it's like – and the issue is, to the average –

01:58:06.020 It is.

01:58:07.260 It's actually not aquamarine.

01:58:09.280 I actually don't know –

01:58:10.220 He's making stuff up.

01:58:11.180 My point is this.

01:58:12.360 If I said, right now, I've decided the definition of racism is when people are mean to me specifically,

01:58:18.400 you'd say, well, that's not true.

01:58:19.340 That's how the word is used.

01:58:20.520 That's how some people think of it.

01:58:21.500 No, no, no, no.

01:58:21.800 Now, when someone says, I had a hot dog, you don't have to stop there and go, now, hold on.

01:58:26.240 What do you mean by hot dog?

01:58:28.000 Because you know what a hot dog is.

01:58:29.780 But imagine now a bunch of people started deciding that hot dogs were hamburgers.

01:58:32.600 Okay?

01:58:33.200 No one is saying that word to describe what you're talking about.

01:58:36.320 I don't know what the hamburger and hot dog thing is, though.

01:58:39.140 But just so that I follow, you're saying that the understanding of racism was never about a hierarchical structure of racism.

01:58:48.320 I would say –

01:58:49.160 Like white supremacy as the guide, starting with people like Thomas Jefferson who wrote notes on Virginia and actually used science to say that science proves that the races should be separate and should be different.

01:59:00.880 And that actually worked its way into the fabric of our country.

01:59:04.940 So let's talk about the general idea that a person has when they say the word racism is.

01:59:11.060 Positive or negative discrimination based on race or the presumption that one race is superior to another.

01:59:16.120 I'd say that some people believe that that –

01:59:18.200 That's the Oxford definition.

01:59:20.140 I don't know –

01:59:20.760 Most people –

01:59:21.580 What you're saying is –

01:59:22.740 I was about to say –

01:59:23.520 The world is a way I don't want it to be.

01:59:25.860 No, that's not what I'm saying.

01:59:26.680 It is.

01:59:27.340 No, it's not.

01:59:27.780 This is a core component of the culture war in the left versus right in that the left goes around as a fringe group representing between 8% to 12% of the U.S. population, not the world, saying things that people don't get like Latinx, which is supported by almost no one.

01:59:45.640 So if you – so what happens then is they show up to a group of 100 people and they say, did you know that this country is racist?

01:59:53.440 And what they're actually saying is, did you know this country institutionally has a scientific view that was used in the formation of its country?

02:00:01.160 No one thinks that's what you mean because you're using a word in a way the average person doesn't comprehend or understand and assuming it's the definition or asserting it is.

02:00:09.260 So, Chris, would you apply that definition to the public school system?

02:00:12.820 Well, first of all, I want to know what's the right version of that because we always beat up on the left for these things.

02:00:17.520 What's the right version of that?

02:00:19.200 The right defines racism as positive or negative?

02:00:21.440 No, no, no.

02:00:21.940 I mean their version of the fringe right doing – you just identified a fringe left thing, which we do a lot of.

02:00:28.820 What's the right version of that?

02:00:30.500 In what way, though?

02:00:32.060 Or you're saying it's just on the left?

02:00:33.820 For the word racism, yes.

02:00:35.500 But I mean what is the right version of that?

02:00:37.900 The right version of –

02:00:39.520 Showing up and redefining things that nobody really believes in the way that they're saying it.

02:00:45.800 I think –

02:00:46.780 Do you think the right does that too or is it just the left?

02:00:48.680 I would say everyone probably does it to varying degrees.

02:00:51.260 Yeah.

02:00:51.600 So can we identify it on the right right now?

02:00:53.320 Can we identify what that is?

02:00:54.480 You have to give me an example.

02:00:55.880 No, no.

02:00:56.200 You have to give me an example.

02:00:57.220 You might be in a better position.

02:00:58.840 No, no.

02:00:59.220 You might be in a better position.

02:01:00.140 If we're literally talking about the Oxford definition of the word racism and you use a definition that is atypical and not aligned with academia, I will correct you.

02:01:07.560 I was talking about Latinx.

02:01:08.920 So you said this fringe group of leftist people make up these things like Latinx and then they go into places and spaces and they start saying these things and people are like, what the hell are you talking about?

02:01:17.300 What did you just say?

02:01:18.040 And I'm just asking, is there a right-wing version of that?

02:01:20.400 Maybe this is correlated with how liberals talk down to black people.

02:01:23.900 Are you familiar with that study?

02:01:25.060 Well, a lot of black people are liberals.

02:01:27.120 So I don't think they're two different groups.

02:01:28.600 According to Yale, white liberals attempt to speak at a lower grade level vocabulary when talking to black people.

02:01:36.080 Conservatives don't do that.

02:01:37.540 So perhaps it is.

02:01:38.720 White liberals were also the only group.

02:01:41.260 Conservatives talk to everybody at below an eighth grade level.

02:01:44.100 So there's that.

02:01:44.960 And that's been proven.

02:01:45.780 Like Trump, for instance, is a great example of when they tested his language, what grade level it was at.

02:01:51.960 It was at a very low grade level.

02:01:53.560 He speaks in very short kind of clips.

02:01:56.420 George Bush did that too.

02:01:57.720 White liberals present themselves as less competent.

02:01:59.960 I'd like to Bush better.

02:02:01.260 Here you go.

02:02:01.980 White liberals present themselves as less competent in interactions with African-Americans from Yale Insights.

02:02:06.840 And perhaps the reason we don't see similar attempts at redefining terms is that it's not a component of conservatives.

02:02:13.480 So should I be able to learn about this in school?

02:02:16.660 In college, high school, perhaps.

02:02:18.660 Yeah.

02:02:19.380 In K-12 schools, should I be able to learn about this?

02:02:21.440 I don't know if you need to get into the intricacies of moral philosophies and socio-political views for fifth graders or sixth graders.

02:02:28.340 Now, I absolutely think—

02:02:30.160 You believe this is real, and you believe that this is something we should learn.

02:02:34.500 It should be part of your world fund of information, right?

02:02:36.920 That white liberals do this.

02:02:37.820 Yeah, that white liberals do this.

02:02:38.960 And so my point on CRT is politically—

02:02:41.180 And specifically white liberals do this, right?

02:02:42.520 Specifically white liberals.

02:02:43.220 Now, my point is, when it comes to grade schools, I said, I think it's fine if a teacher wants to explain what CRT is to a student.

02:02:51.400 I don't know that most parents would think we need college-level legal courses on, like, Marxist philosophies for grade students.

02:02:57.620 But I have no problem with them saying, I want you to learn about the history of critical race theory.

02:03:01.540 The problem I have is praxis, not the teaching of legal theories.

02:03:05.280 So if they said, here's a book on CRT.

02:03:07.880 Here's a book on Marxist-Leninism.

02:03:09.760 Here's Adam Smith's The Invisible Hand.

02:03:11.720 All of these—

02:03:12.400 Or, you know, whatever.

02:03:14.060 Wealth of Nations.

02:03:14.460 Wealth of Nations, Das Kapital.

02:03:15.820 All of these things.

02:03:16.680 I'd be like, yeah, sure.

02:03:17.360 Now, imagine they started incorporating the ideology into the fundamental underlying through praxis of the entire school that I take issue with.

02:03:26.200 Okay.

02:03:26.540 So one of the previous examples that you gave was of a piece of material that said, whiteness is this, and white people do that.

02:03:34.120 And it was identifying a group of people that do a certain thing, and you said that that was racist.

02:03:39.440 And this is identifying white people as doing a very specific thing because they're white.

02:03:44.220 It is showing a devil tale with fire, saying that whiteness—

02:03:49.200 I think he's pointing to a different—

02:03:51.000 Yeah.

02:03:51.260 Were you pointing to the—

02:03:52.020 The previous one.

02:03:53.120 What was the previous one?

02:03:53.980 The one that you just had up was basically—

02:03:55.760 Oh, white liberals present themselves as less competent in interactions with African Americans.

02:03:58.640 That is doing the same thing.

02:04:00.900 Yeah, but he could agree with the argument.

02:04:04.220 I did not say white liberal devils who are trying to steal your land.

02:04:09.140 I said white liberals do things.

02:04:10.500 So you think the devil part is the problem?

02:04:11.240 Yes!

02:04:11.800 Yes!

02:04:12.200 This is basically saying white people.

02:04:13.620 Saying something like there's a higher percentage of the NBA that are black, I'm like, that's fine.

02:04:19.500 That's the thing.

02:04:20.380 Saying that Asians are shorter on average than white people, I'm like, okay.

02:04:24.040 Now what if they said these scrawny, disgusting, insert racial group is—I'd be like, well, that's a problem.

02:04:29.060 If they said white people have a higher rate of, like, I don't know, say interest rates for some reason, and they're demons.

02:04:37.460 I'd be like, yeah, don't add the demon part.

02:04:39.320 Tell me the fact.

02:04:40.120 Would you be okay with the lesson that said white people treat black people poorly?

02:04:45.080 I think you need—I think that's an opinion statement that requires context.

02:04:48.300 I mean, this article is basically saying that.

02:04:50.180 Right, but this isn't—this is—

02:04:51.740 And is it appropriate to do it at a young age in schools versus should parents be talking about it?

02:04:56.740 Right, that's a good question too.

02:04:57.880 But this is a specific—white liberals present themselves as less competent, could be viewed positively or negatively.

02:05:04.540 In fact, I'm sure there are a lot of progressives who say, well, you have to understand, black people don't know how to get IDs, and they don't know where the DMV is, so they need us to act—like, there are people who say those things.

02:05:14.920 They think they're being good by doing it, and so perhaps this is not positive or negative.

02:05:19.000 It's an assessment from a study that was done.

02:05:20.760 So I want to—

02:05:21.380 If it said white liberals treat black people like they're morons, I'd say we shouldn't frame it that way.

02:05:26.340 I believe that this would probably be legal under the divisive concepts laws.

02:05:31.360 Illegal.

02:05:32.220 Yeah, under the divisive concept laws, because you are saying that white people specifically, because they are white, are doing something specific.

02:05:39.220 No, no, no.

02:05:39.540 See, I have no problem with, you know, if they come out and they said something like, according to FBI crime statistics, young black men commit substantially more murders than white men, I say, okay, well, I don't know if that's the stats they found or whatever.

02:05:52.320 But if it disparaged black people in that process, I'd say we don't need that.

02:05:57.340 What we need is a greater contextual understanding of what these stats are, whether there's underlying biases behind them, whether it's prejudice from police or socioeconomics, whatever it may be.

02:06:09.880 Yale putting out a study like this is why I said perhaps parents would agree these kinds of topics aren't appropriate for fifth and sixth graders.

02:06:17.480 But certainly in high school, you're getting into your later years and learning about these things and definitely into college.

02:06:22.740 Of course, this isn't disparaging anybody.

02:06:24.820 It's making an assessment based on a new study.

02:06:27.080 One of the recent polls at a University of Houston in Texas about the – they even called them vouchers, so they used the politically charged term that gets you typically lower positive rankings of school choice than if you were to call it school choice or education savings accounts.

02:06:41.380 They found a majority support of school choice, even when they called it vouchers in Texas, from the University of Houston.

02:06:48.460 For all background demographics, they cut it by race and they cut it by party as well, liberal versus Republican, conservative.

02:07:00.900 And they found that every group had a majority support for vouchers except for white Democrats.

02:07:06.820 Black Democrats actually had one of the highest groups of support for vouchers in Texas.

02:07:12.580 But I – that was just an aside because we were talking about white liberals.

02:07:15.960 But the other thing I wanted to ask – I mean, that was also the other – the only group that didn't –

02:07:21.060 I feel like you guys are okay with racism when it's white leftists that are getting the racism.

02:07:25.340 But I really wanted –

02:07:26.380 Which is okay.

02:07:26.960 But I really wanted to ask based on –

02:07:28.640 What do you mean by that?

02:07:29.460 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:07:30.180 Based on your definition of racism, let's say Tim's in the Oxford is wrong and it is more of a systemic thing.

02:07:36.920 Would you apply that logic to the public school system as it exists today?

02:07:41.500 Would you say that there is systemic racism in the public schools?

02:07:43.880 Oh, yeah.

02:07:44.200 So shouldn't we be able to have our kids go somewhere else if they're being subject to –

02:07:51.760 Wait a minute.

02:07:52.200 I like public schools now.

02:07:54.000 You like it now?

02:07:56.360 You said kidding.

02:07:57.240 That's always –

02:07:58.000 You said kidding.

02:07:58.100 It took the win them over, you know.

02:08:00.000 That's the joke.

02:08:00.980 You know I've been saying for years that I think that there are racist structures within education.

02:08:06.820 So I think – so I'm trying to get you to take the next step and say, okay, we shouldn't be forced into that system.

02:08:11.480 We should be able to vote with our feet to another school.

02:08:14.320 Well, who's the we in this?

02:08:15.500 Any family.

02:08:16.420 All families.

02:08:17.060 Everybody should be eligible.

02:08:18.240 What about school choice only for black families?

02:08:21.180 Yeah.

02:08:21.720 This is an interesting concept.

02:08:23.840 This is interesting.

02:08:24.300 I mean I think that would be against the civil rights act if it's only certain races.

02:08:30.460 So here's a conundrum.

02:08:32.260 I don't think it would be if they're private.

02:08:33.560 The argument being these public school systems were built and – I will absolutely – I think it's a historical fact.

02:08:42.400 The public school system is – was absolutely created in a society of racism.

02:08:49.400 Yeah, I think you've talked about the racist history.

02:08:52.100 This is not even – I mean you look at – when I did a documentary on Ferguson, I'm like, it is nightmarish.

02:08:58.240 And I tell this to a lot of conservatives too.

02:09:00.460 I don't like the idea that it's like when they say like all cops are racist or whatever.

02:09:05.840 I'm like, no, no, no, come on.

02:09:06.560 Like there's a lot of factors here.

02:09:07.820 You can't blame a single guy.

02:09:09.120 But I think it's fair to say especially – I don't know if you've ever – if you looked into the history of St. Louis.

02:09:13.480 Oh, yeah.

02:09:13.900 St. Louis is built on racism.

02:09:15.180 Yes.

02:09:15.340 No question.

02:09:15.860 Absolutely.

02:09:16.580 Not an argument.

02:09:17.260 Yeah.

02:09:17.680 The quick version of it is St. Louis County is big.

02:09:21.280 St. Louis City is very small.

02:09:22.800 When desegregation came into play, the white – a lot of white families formed suburbs and then passed covenants, housing covenants, which were on paper not racist but were literally intended to isolate their communities and create small towns.

02:09:38.180 Resulting in something like 99 cities within one county.

02:09:41.560 And they each have their own police department.

02:09:43.240 And so literally built for the purpose of being like we don't want to live with other races, you now have this massive multi-county system – sorry, a multi-city system within one county where what ends up happening is there's a – and we interviewed people who've been through this.

02:10:00.140 There's a low-income neighborhood in western St. Louis County and predominantly black.

02:10:06.700 They can't – they make very little money.

02:10:08.600 They have very little commercial industry.

02:10:10.160 And they're trying.

02:10:11.320 And we interviewed a handful of these guys.

02:10:13.200 Good people.

02:10:13.900 Good, hardworking people.

02:10:15.120 And one guy says, you know, I'm paying my rent.

02:10:17.440 I'm paying my taxes.

02:10:18.640 I can't afford to get my license plate updated.

02:10:20.960 So I have to make a choice.

02:10:22.200 Am I going to feed my kids or am I going to spend the $35 on my license plate?

02:10:26.360 My kids are getting food.

02:10:27.740 I then drive to work.

02:10:28.980 When I drive to work, I drive through four different cities.

02:10:31.460 And in each city I drive through, I get pulled over for not having an updated plate.

02:10:35.240 And I get a ticket for $50.

02:10:36.760 I get $200 in fines because of the way they built this system.

02:10:40.240 Now, I know none of those cops are doing it because they're racist.

02:10:43.380 They're doing it because my license plate expired.

02:10:45.020 But because of the system as it was built, it results in this negative impact on the lower-income communities, which are predominantly black.

02:10:51.900 I think that's a completely fair assessment to make.

02:10:54.180 Like, holy crap, this system was built because people were racist.

02:10:57.320 And now it's perpetuating a disproportionate system on one group of people.

02:11:01.060 I think the solution is economic and not race-based.

02:11:04.380 So we should say things like, if your license plate is expired or it's a minor moving violation, you should not be able to get multiple tickets in multiple jurisdictions.

02:11:12.660 You should be able to show one city's ticket and say, it's the one fine.

02:11:16.120 What ends up happening is they can't pay the fine, so they get a day in jail.

02:11:20.840 Some minor, okay, we're going to arrest you for the unpaid ticket.

02:11:24.180 They go, they call it going on tour.

02:11:27.440 You get arrested.

02:11:28.220 So one kid was telling us, he's like, look, man, my headlight was out.

02:11:31.620 I drive through four cities on my way to work five miles.

02:11:34.100 I get pulled over.

02:11:35.140 I say, yeah, I'm sorry, man.

02:11:36.140 They're like, well, here's your ticket for a moving violation.

02:11:38.160 Now I can go home and stop driving and not go to work.

02:11:41.000 I don't have the money to fix the headlight, but I got to go to work.

02:11:42.980 So I keep driving.

02:11:43.820 I get pulled over the next one.

02:11:44.840 No headlight, another ticket.

02:11:46.420 Then I go to jail for a weekend.

02:11:48.240 As soon as I get out on Monday, the cops from the next city are waiting for me and they take me to the next police station.

02:11:53.380 That's called going on tour.

02:11:54.360 So I don't think those cops are being racist.

02:11:57.600 I think a system was built a long time ago by racists that now has a perpetuating negative impact.

02:12:02.880 My issue with the critical race theorists, the woke and the left is they think the solution is going to be based on race when the solution is going to be based on economics.

02:12:10.560 Because now it's interesting in that these areas are predominantly black, but there are white people living there.

02:12:16.140 There are Latinos living there and they do suffer the same consequences.

02:12:18.820 What's the saying?

02:12:19.520 The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination.

02:12:23.320 Yeah.

02:12:23.500 Ibram Kendi.

02:12:24.000 Well, I mean, you know, so I think what you just said, Tim, actually is the definition I was talking about of racism.

02:12:31.600 And it's funny because actually that is the way that racism was commonly conceived for all of the time that we've studied things like housing covenants and public housing and the way people were put into public housing.

02:12:43.600 Did you know this?

02:12:44.560 Did you know that in public housing, it used to be mostly white?

02:12:48.220 And to live in public housing, you had to be married and you had to sign something that basically said,

02:12:53.860 your kids will not be bad because if they do something, you'll lose your public housing, which gave you a really good incentive to keep everything under control, right?

02:13:01.580 You had to be married.

02:13:02.580 You had to be a family and you had to keep your kids under control or you lost your.

02:13:06.040 So when they decided to lure those families into the suburbs and get them into single family homes, they dropped all those rules.

02:13:13.440 And then they moved black people into those those projects and they dropped all the rules like you no longer had to be married.

02:13:20.280 You didn't have to like that is like that is going to produce a racial result.

02:13:25.040 So a structure you're putting in place that's going to create a racial result.

02:13:27.920 Here, I'll give you my thoughts real quick and then we do we do got a wrap up.

02:13:30.860 But growing up in Chicago, we had I lived on 49th Street, 47th Street was the racial segregation line, the unofficial line.

02:13:39.220 As soon as you cross north of 47th, you were in an entirely black neighborhood, everybody, every single person.

02:13:46.080 And a part of it is called the Leclerc courts.

02:13:48.740 They demolished a lot of those a lot of public housing.

02:13:50.640 South of this line was very mixed, but largely white.

02:13:57.120 When you crossed Cicero, you are now in the Hispanic segregated line.

02:14:02.740 You cross Cicero, all the ads are in Spanish.

02:14:05.060 And so growing up the way I did, I then see these solutions where they're like reparations and things like this.

02:14:11.400 And I'm like, if you want to start riots and gang war, the fastest way to do it is to give one race any kind of public benefit outright, preferably not money.

02:14:22.620 But if it was a cash thing or it was an or it was like a tax thing where it's like we're going to build schools.

02:14:28.440 Yeah.

02:14:29.260 You know, the Hispanic neighborhood is going to be like, we know where the money's at.

02:14:31.880 And then all of a sudden you're going to get race wars because these neighborhoods are racially segregated.

02:14:37.180 I'm like, what you should do is socioeconomic.

02:14:39.040 Why?

02:14:39.600 Because then if you believe that the black community is on the bottom and predominantly the lower income and oppressed because of this, they will predominantly be lifted up without excluding the poor Asian, Latino or white guy.

02:14:51.620 And that will alleviate the the white side and the Latino side looking at the black side is having the money now.

02:14:57.860 And then having you just don't want to do that.

02:14:59.940 So you got to you got to make sure you don't want to do that.

02:15:03.840 Well, I don't I don't want the Hispanic guy living in a black neighborhood to be surrounded by a bunch of people all celebrating.

02:15:09.000 And then he gets mad being like, because I'm Hispanic, I don't get anything.

02:15:13.560 He's like, I'm poor, man.

02:15:15.280 I grew up in this neighborhood.

02:15:16.540 And that was the typical view.

02:15:18.420 Like when whenever people brought this stuff up, they're like, what?

02:15:21.480 Like, you're my neighbor.

02:15:22.580 We both we both live in the slums and they're going to give you money because you're whatever race.

02:15:28.060 It's it just breeds racial animosity.

02:15:30.760 I know we got to wrap.

02:15:31.680 So I will say on that last point, this is this is the the argument that we have with reparations in the United States.

02:15:37.200 And here's where I think it's different.

02:15:39.100 Black people have a particular grievance to make with their government.

02:15:43.100 And that grievance has never been settled.

02:15:45.220 It hasn't been settled in court.

02:15:46.300 It wasn't settled anywhere.

02:15:47.140 They were emancipated and they were going to be given land and they were going to be given some outlay.

02:15:51.740 And instead, what they did was they paid reparations to the former slave owners instead of paying it to the people who were recently emancipated.

02:15:58.300 And every settlement that black people have had, the civil rights settlement, the reconstruction settlement and all of those actually did not get to the particularity of the black problem.

02:16:08.200 Specific to black people.

02:16:09.200 It doesn't have anything to do with Asian people.

02:16:10.820 It doesn't have anything to do with Hispanic people.

02:16:12.460 So in my state where you have reservations for Native Americans, I don't look at those reservations and go, oh, my God, I can't believe you're giving Indians land.

02:16:20.160 No, that was a settlement that the Indians made with the United States government.

02:16:23.580 Black people never got their settlement with the United States government that the Native Americans got.

02:16:28.220 So I agree with the idea of reparations in giving land to black people from the federal government.

02:16:36.580 A hundred percent.

02:16:37.280 Yeah, they said they were going to do it.

02:16:38.800 I think the federal.

02:16:39.520 I think anything we can take from the federal government.

02:16:42.240 It is a good thing.

02:16:43.360 So would you be good with?

02:16:44.800 This is like, I want a clip of this.

02:16:47.780 The Bureau of Land Management has basically just taken over large swaths of American territory and is just isolated.

02:16:53.140 No, take it from the government.

02:16:54.660 Give it to people.

02:16:55.180 Well, Tim, you have just solved the problem because land is money.

02:16:58.280 Land is capital.

02:16:59.520 And land is the one thing that was given to the Native Americans that wasn't given to the African Americans.

02:17:03.440 So to come full circle, come full circle.

02:17:06.280 Yeah.

02:17:06.440 Would you be okay with educational reparations in the form of vouchers to go to a private school?

02:17:11.120 I feel like I have posed that question before.

02:17:16.360 So would you be supportive of vouchers in that type?

02:17:21.260 Something specific happening for the things that black people lost in the education system.

02:17:26.380 For instance, like in 1954 after Brown versus Board, the majority of black teachers were fired and the majority of black principals were demoted to janitors and the majority of black schools were closed.

02:17:36.520 But what if it's just in the form of you've been relegated to the crappy schools, you're assigned to this school, you know, it's been, it's been, the lines have been drawn based on race.

02:17:48.100 This, this system isn't working.

02:17:50.120 You get 10,000 bucks, but you can only use it to go to a private school.

02:17:53.400 Yeah, I think you're talking like an integrationist because I think integration has been the one way that people have, uh, have posed an answer to that question.

02:18:01.060 Uh, yeah, what we need to do is break down the boundaries of schools, right?

02:18:04.540 Because, uh, kids in white school districts are getting $2 billion more a year than districts right next to them that are all black.

02:18:11.700 So the, the, the boundaries becomes a problem there.

02:18:14.600 Yeah.

02:18:14.820 The way that we gerundered the boundaries.

02:18:16.860 So, yeah.

02:18:17.280 So erase the boundaries.

02:18:18.320 Uh, you're not going to get me on vouchers.

02:18:20.240 It's not going to happen or on ESS.

02:18:21.840 All right.

02:18:22.100 We'll wrap up.

02:18:22.520 But I do want to say one last thing, just like on the, on the land.

02:18:24.720 What if I call it a scholarship?

02:18:26.580 We call it whatever you want.

02:18:27.580 Here's what we have.

02:18:28.420 Better have accountability.

02:18:29.640 So my last thought, we've got a lot, we got a popular population density problems.

02:18:33.240 We have a bunch of un and underdeveloped land, especially in the like Midwest to a West coast and the federal government sits on it.

02:18:41.700 And we're seeing it sold off to Chinese investors and things like that.

02:18:45.100 And whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

02:18:46.800 Okay.

02:18:47.280 I don't care.

02:18:48.500 You know, my, my, my only concern on like racial reparations of giving land away is that you might create big racially segregated areas.

02:18:56.980 But I got to be honest, I'd rather a private black citizen own that land in the federal government or China.

02:19:04.180 So how about we just compromise?

02:19:05.900 But anyway, anyway, I'm going to open a can of worms.

02:19:07.800 You just solved so many problems.

02:19:09.720 You just like, like literally, I want a clip of what you just said.

02:19:13.020 Clip it.

02:19:13.380 Pause it.

02:19:13.720 The federal, the federal.

02:19:14.720 You just solved so many problems with that.

02:19:16.400 The federal government basically is just seizing land and they're doing nothing with it.

02:19:19.420 And then Chinese investors are buying up large swaths.

02:19:21.500 And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

02:19:23.240 Yeah.

02:19:23.520 Yeah.

02:19:23.700 We don't want none of this.

02:19:24.360 But anyway, do you guys want to shout anything out as we wrap up?

02:19:27.040 Yeah.

02:19:27.500 Follow me on Twitter at NowX.

02:19:29.360 It's at DeAngelis Corey.

02:19:30.660 If you want to contribute to the AFC Victory Fund, you can go to afcvf.com.

02:19:36.960 And you can get my new book.

02:19:38.220 It's called The Parent Revolution.

02:19:39.540 It's available now on Amazon and other places as well.

02:19:42.280 The Parent Revolution.

02:19:43.920 Yeah.

02:19:44.080 And you can find me on Twitter.

02:19:45.140 I'm at Citizen Stewart on Twitter.

02:19:47.120 And you can also find me at citizenstewart.com.

02:19:49.600 That's my website.

02:19:50.200 Right on.

02:19:50.520 Guys, thanks for hanging out.

02:19:51.500 This was a fun one.

02:19:52.320 It was funny.

02:19:52.520 This was cool.

02:19:52.920 Thank you.

02:19:53.900 And for everybody else, thanks for hanging out.

02:19:55.960 Subscribe to Tenet Media.

02:19:57.660 And we'll be back tonight at 8 p.m. at youtube.com slash timcastirl.

02:20:01.000 Thanks for hanging out.

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - April 12, 2024

The Culture War #59 Indoctrination in Schools & School Choice w⧸ Christopher Stewart & Corey DeAngelis

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