The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #67 Anti-White Racism On The Rise In The West, DEI & The Cult

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00:00:57.060 You know, it's kind of shocking how long this has been going on. It's probably 15, 16 years since

00:01:03.700 the wokeness, intersectional feminism, culture war battles have been expanding rapidly into the

00:01:09.980 mainstream. Gamergate, many say, was the beginning of the culture war. But a huge component of this

00:01:16.520 has been an attack on white people. The idea that white history or things related to white

00:01:23.800 cultures and white indigenous nations are wrong, racist. Otherwise, a really great example of the

00:01:30.520 hypocrisy in wokeness as it pertains to white people is that if you were to go to, if you were to hold up

00:01:38.720 a big sign saying that I support indigenous people, they'd all clap and cheer. And then if the bottom

00:01:43.280 folded out and it said of Europe, they would all lose their minds. The idea that the people who

00:01:48.400 are indigenous to Europe are not the same as indigenous to Native America, clearly the component

00:01:52.200 here is not whether or not someone's indigenous, it's whether or not they're white. So we're going

00:01:56.160 to talk about that today. We've got a couple of Jeremy's hanging out. First, Jeremy, would you like

00:02:00.280 to introduce yourself? Yeah, I'm Jeremy Carl, a senior fellow at the Claremont Institute. And I

00:02:04.880 have just written a book called The Unprotected Class about anti-white racism and its rise in America.

00:02:09.040 And Jeremy, other Jeremy. I'm Jeremy Tedesco. I'm a 20 year First Amendment litigator at Alliance

00:02:14.540 Defending Freedom. We're probably the best kept secret. If you're a fan of free speech and religious

00:02:19.180 freedom, we've won 15 cases at the Supreme Court since 2011, 74 over the course of our 30 year history.

00:02:26.120 And we're advocating for First Amendment freedoms all day long and trying to stop the Biden

00:02:29.340 administration from weaponizing the federal government and private corporations against

00:02:33.360 our First Amendment rights. Oh, right on. I do also feel that it's not just about white people,

00:02:38.280 but also it's like, if you're a white Christian, it's fair game. They can say whatever they want,

00:02:42.900 they can discriminate. And if you're a white Christian man, I mean, then it's just good luck,

00:02:47.300 right? But who wants to do? How about, do you want to, you wrote a book, do you want to introduce us to

00:02:52.240 what exactly is going on with this in the United States?

00:02:56.040 Yeah, well, it's really become an epidemic. And I didn't really want to write the book,

00:02:59.880 quite honestly, for many years, because I'm not an idiot, right? And when you write a book like this,

00:03:04.760 you get a lot of people very angry with you, because as you noted at your introductory remarks,

00:03:09.640 you're not really allowed to say anything about white people that might be construed as nice. But

00:03:14.160 it just got to the point where, particularly, you saw this, what's been called the Great Awokening

00:03:19.040 in 2013, Obama's inaugurated, and you see the kind of real radicalization of the left on these issues.

00:03:27.640 And I just felt that it was really important to kind of document that. So I try to do that in the book.

00:03:31.300 I sort of talk about everything from immigration to healthcare to entertainment, and I kind of just

00:03:38.560 show how anti-whiteness has become epidemic throughout, you know, all of America in 2024.

00:03:45.620 So it's really getting crazy out there. And then, you know, you other Jeremy, I don't know if it's

00:03:49.860 fair to call you other Jeremy, but...

00:03:51.540 I'll take it.

00:03:52.860 Yeah. You guys are dealing with lawsuits pertaining to this stuff now. What's going on on that front?

00:03:58.400 Sure. I mean, we're worried about the weaponization of the federal government and even of private

00:04:03.320 corporations against people's First Amendment rights. The DEI is a part of this. And, you know,

00:04:07.780 all the demands of diversity, equity, inclusion related to race, related to, you know,

00:04:13.400 labeling people oppressors and oppressed based on their race, their sex, their religious convictions.

00:04:20.580 I mean, we have lawsuits that where we've challenged that. We're starting to be adopted and

00:04:24.260 pushed in schools. But we're also concerned about the broader weaponization of, you know,

00:04:29.600 the legal system and even these private corporations take away people's First Amendment rights. It's

00:04:34.260 a huge problem. And I think it's kind of all part of the same package of problems. There's an

00:04:40.040 aggressive push by kind of the political left, especially the extreme elements of it,

00:04:45.720 to weaponize our legal system, to try to take private corporations and regulate us through them

00:04:51.040 and censor us through them. And so we're pushing back hard against those.

00:04:54.880 How is this? How is it happening? I mean, the 1964 Civil Rights Act makes it illegal to

00:04:59.760 discriminate on the basis of race. Yet we now have institutions that are putting in tests,

00:05:05.500 you know, like the Harvard lawsuits restricting white people. And oftentimes they're explicit in

00:05:11.680 why they're doing it. They're outright saying too many white people, too many Asians. So we're going

00:05:16.540 to change the structure so that we get rid of them. And then you've got corporations that flat

00:05:21.200 out tell people, oh, you're white. Sorry, we're not interested. I'll tell you a quick story. We had

00:05:26.220 a pro skateboarder on this show a few months ago. He was a gay man. And he's like, it's not really

00:05:33.200 a big deal. It's like, I don't go around telling everybody. But he got approached by a friend who

00:05:36.860 said, hey, they're doing a commercial for, I think it was a shoe company. And it's like Pride

00:05:41.320 Month or whatever. Would you want to be in it skateboarding? And he was like, oh, wow, that'd

00:05:45.320 be cool. And when they submitted his reel, the people on the commercial said, why did you send

00:05:50.780 us a white guy? So here here is a gay man for their diversity commercial. And they said white

00:05:56.000 person. And then we played the commercial. No white people in it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think

00:06:00.780 actually you've actually hit on a really important insight that a lot of people miss. And in fact,

00:06:06.600 even people who've written on this issue miss. And an area where I differ a little bit

00:06:10.620 from other folks who've written very good books in slightly similar areas, guys like Christopher

00:06:15.380 Caldwell and Richard Denania have kind of written books about this, is that I am not as, I don't

00:06:23.740 think the Civil Rights Act in and of itself is the totalizing thing that gets us to where

00:06:28.980 we are now. And that, as you point out, these laws are on the books and they're just getting

00:06:33.020 ignored. It's in the culture, this type of discrimination. And it really helps me have folks

00:06:38.220 like Alliance who will actually call this out on lawsuits. But right now, a lot of this

00:06:43.640 discrimination is illegal and it's been happening in plain sight. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I know. I think

00:06:48.500 that's totally right. How did this happen? I'm not sure. It all happened kind of under the radar.

00:06:53.300 There was a lot of push for years. And then DEI, I think, put it on steroids as far as this kind

00:06:59.500 of racialized view of the world and a zero sum game where, you know, my racial group has to win and

00:07:03.820 yours has to lose. But a lot of big businesses, institutions in college and university setting as

00:07:09.600 well, adopted these things and nobody challenged them legally. But that's, it is starting to change.

00:07:15.780 Some of the, the Harvard decision from the Supreme Court was kind of the first real shot across the

00:07:20.140 bow. But that's not a limited decision. I think it's going to result in a lot of these programs,

00:07:25.040 which really are patently illegal and ultimately undermine the core promise of the U.S.

00:07:31.560 experiment, which is we're all equal before the law, regardless of our race, regardless of our sex,

00:07:36.580 regardless of our religious convictions. And so I think in the end, we're going to be,

00:07:40.860 the arc is going to be long, but we're going to prevail against this because it's absolutely

00:07:45.140 contrary to our founding principles, constitution protections, and some existing laws and statutes

00:07:51.600 as well. Well, I see, I see two paths on this road we're on and I'm hoping we win. I think a strong

00:07:59.260 component of it would require a Donald Trump victory and a Republican victory in November,

00:08:04.280 considering the stakes of this election. But I, I, I feel that if I would predict,

00:08:11.000 if we were to see a Democrat victory, you're likely going to see the expansion of this as

00:08:16.680 what is written down in law is completely meaningless. You know, people point out,

00:08:20.880 oh, Donald Trump, he just got convicted in a court of law.

00:08:23.560 Well, yeah, it's a jury. They agreed. And it's like, well, yes, in the Soviet Union,

00:08:26.880 they trials as well. No one takes them seriously. When we're looking at corporations that are outright

00:08:32.160 telling people, we won't hire you based on race. This happened to me actually, uh, sort of. So I was,

00:08:38.160 I worked for a company called fusion. They were hosting a big event with presidential candidates.

00:08:42.240 I was one of their top paid correspondents. I am also a mixed race person and news, news went out

00:08:49.820 about the event they were doing and the hosts they had brought on to do it. And it was their top

00:08:53.380 correspondence plus one, one outside contractor who was black. And so I'm like, Hey man, look,

00:08:58.540 you don't got to come and ask me to do anything. Let me do my thing, pay me my money. But I did ask

00:09:02.720 the president of the company. I was like, couldn't help but notice you brought in all of the top paid

00:09:07.380 correspondents and then a contractor. And then I'm not invited. And he said, you look too white.

00:09:13.100 Just straight up. He said, you look too white. And I was like, well, I'm, I'm a mixed race person.

00:09:17.060 And he was like, yeah, but you know, that doesn't matter. And I was like, all right,

00:09:19.880 well, he was straight up with me and they paid me a lot of money. So I was like, honestly, like I,

00:09:24.400 if it was something I was pursuing, like I had applied for it, right. I probably would have lost my

00:09:28.500 mind. Well, it's interesting, Tim. And I think your experience is, is really similar. And I was,

00:09:33.920 I was one of the first interviews I did about this book with Miss Charlie Kirk and Charlie,

00:09:38.020 I thought had something really interesting to say anecdotally, because he talks to such a

00:09:41.380 broad swath of people in the conservative movement. He says, when I talk with my older donors and folks

00:09:46.220 like that, and they say, you know, I start talking about anti-white racism, they kind of freak out.

00:09:50.420 They're like, oh, you know, can we even say that? Is that bad? Does that make us racist? Whereas when I

00:09:54.520 go on college campuses and I talk to young people about this, like young white people, they're like, yeah,

00:10:00.440 this is the biggest issue we're facing. You know, thank you so much for, for raising it. So I think there's

00:10:05.300 also a generation gap here where a lot of old people or older people, you know, even people

00:10:12.960 like me or middle age, my generation don't understand how bad it's gotten for younger

00:10:17.720 people trying to make their way in the world right now on some of this stuff.

00:10:20.240 Yeah. I mean, are you guys seeing more and more lawsuits or more and more requests for lawsuits?

00:10:27.060 There are more lawsuits being filed on the overreach of DEI now than there ever has been.

00:10:33.240 I think the floodgates really opened with the Harvard decision from the Supreme Court a couple

00:10:37.100 sessions ago. And so, you know, I was just looking at an opinion the other day, coming out of the 11th

00:10:42.240 Circuit Court of Appeals, where a program that has race preferences built into financial awards,

00:10:51.760 you know, the, the, the, the court said this, this violates federal law against race based contracting

00:10:58.580 decisions. Another decision came out recently that struck down a federal program and the racial

00:11:05.640 preferences they have for minority owned businesses. And so basically, if you, if you fell into certain

00:11:10.980 racial categories or ethnic categories, you, you got favored preferential treatment under the

00:11:15.560 program. And they said that just violates the fundamental principle of equal protection for

00:11:19.720 the law. So I do think that a lot of this stuff exists. It's pervasive, but I also think the legal

00:11:25.780 decisions are going to go the right way. They're going to stack pretty quickly. You were saying before

00:11:29.520 Tim about, you know, the things that are written are ignored in many ways, but what we're worried

00:11:34.800 about is what's, what's happening behind the scenes, what's shrouded. You know, and we're, one of the

00:11:40.180 things that we're working on is the way in which the federal government is taking kind of the secrecy

00:11:45.500 that's allowed within the banking system and using it in weaponizing that against people, you know,

00:11:51.240 totally legal businesses, weaponizing it against people for their constitutional,

00:11:55.520 constitutionally protected activities like speech and religion. There's a lot coming out on this.

00:12:00.300 I testified at a Congress on this a few months ago where we were actually caught up in it as well,

00:12:04.560 ADF, where I work, Alliance Defending Freedom, because the, the, the, the FinCEN, uh, part of

00:12:10.100 the counter-terrorism kind of ecosystem at the federal level shared a document with big banks

00:12:15.620 saying, look, uh, around the January 6, uh, you know, uh, uh, activities, we want you to look for

00:12:21.520 people who could be domestic, domestic violent terrorists. And they said, here's a list of hate

00:12:26.160 groups, so-called hate groups, which is put out by all these far left activists. We're on it.

00:12:30.180 Lots of other Christian organizations are as well. Um, and they're like, you know, these organizations

00:12:34.640 are, you know, domestic violent extremists, or at least could be, and people who donate to them

00:12:39.920 could be. And they're asking big banks to scour their records for people who give donations to

00:12:44.620 groups like us who, you know, use terms like MAGA or Trump or shopped at Dick's Sporting Goods or

00:12:49.660 Cabela's. Like these are, this, this is really alarming stuff. So there's, there, it's a whole

00:12:55.160 government problem. And there's a lot of manipulation of the kind of legal apparatus,

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00:14:27.060 on care. Did I mention that we care? Divisions in the federal government to harm people's First

00:14:36.160 Amendment rights. And so that's a real concern. And I think it's all part of the same package.

00:14:40.260 Yeah. And I think maybe part of the reason I'm a little less optimistic, and I mean, if I were

00:14:44.220 totally pessimistic, I wouldn't have written the book because I think there are things we can do.

00:14:48.040 But I'm a little less optimistic because I think a lot of these things that we're doing to challenge

00:14:52.940 the law are only as good as the people we have who are enforcing them. And so by that, what do I mean?

00:14:59.200 You just touched on the Harvard Supreme Court decision, which says affirmative action is illegal in

00:15:02.460 universities. So Missouri has a really excellent forward-looking attorney general. As soon as that

00:15:08.080 happens, he cancels $16 million worth of race-based scholarships in the state. But I don't think any

00:15:13.580 other state AG did it, right? Because nobody actually stepped forward and said, aha, I'm going to go use

00:15:18.440 this. And then the kind of real black pill, if you will, is to look at California. So California has now

00:15:24.120 twice at the ballot box outlawed affirmative action by race in its universities. If you look at the

00:15:29.800 statistics for admission, if you really squint, you can maybe see a little bit of effect that that

00:15:35.980 outlawing has had. But it ain't much.

00:15:38.740 That was funny. So you're referring to, I think this was, what, four or five years ago,

00:15:44.340 they had an attempt to amend the Constitution of California to allow them to discriminate on the

00:15:49.480 basis of race in public contracting and education. I remember I had a conversation with a friend of

00:15:55.020 mine who was like, excuse me, like a woke LA actress. And I saw that she had posted in favor of

00:16:01.380 it. And so I immediately texted her and then ended up with a phone call. And I was like,

00:16:06.240 so why do you think people should be allowed to discriminate against people based on their race?

00:16:11.720 And she was like, well, no, this is to help minorities. And I said, what's the population

00:16:19.200 breakdown of California? Like what are the racial demographics? Let's actually, let's pull this one

00:16:23.440 up. I think whites are like 38% or something. So they're a minority. So 40% are Latino, 35% are

00:16:31.800 white, 15% are Asian, Pacific Islander, 5% are black. And I was like, you know, what's the breakdown?

00:16:37.880 And then actually let's, let's do this. Los Angeles. I was like, so the racial makeup of LA is 48.7%

00:16:48.680 white. But that includes Hispanics there. Like the white non-Hispanic numbers. Well, it says 44.6

00:16:55.180 are Hispanic or Latino. Right. Because if you look at it, it's adding up to way more than a hundred,

00:16:59.800 right? Because this is a number of Hispanics who self-identify as white. So if I had to guess

00:17:04.720 the white non-Hispanic number. Oh, right. That doesn't make sense. Does it? I asked her, I was like,

00:17:09.000 do you think that in like these towns that in California that are predominantly white,

00:17:14.620 do you think they're going to choose to be more or less racist? And she was like,

00:17:22.280 well, I would assume more racist. And I was like, why would you want to give them the legal right to

00:17:26.020 do so? Right. And she didn't have an answer. I feel like a lot of these activists just want to be

00:17:31.160 racist for real. I mean, that's it. I mean, like the outcome of, of, of amending the constitution in

00:17:37.560 the way they did certainly at the state level could have some impact, but there are counties that are

00:17:42.240 predominantly white in California. There's the East, uh, certain farming areas. And I'm like,

00:17:47.640 the reality is, I think if California changed the amendment, these overwhelmingly white areas would

00:17:52.120 not implement racial laws to protect white people. Right. The other counties that aren't

00:17:56.560 predominantly white would absolutely pass laws to harm white people. Right. Well, the interesting

00:18:01.320 thing on that, that, uh, ballot initiative in California was every politician in the state

00:18:07.400 endorsed at least all the, the Democrats did, which is everybody who has office. Um, they outspent

00:18:12.720 the proponents about 30 to one or something preposterous and everybody thought that they

00:18:17.680 were going to win. Um, and they lost 56, 44 while Biden was carrying the state with 63%. So I think the

00:18:24.400 good news is that actually racially discriminating is sort of unpopular in America. Um, at least when you

00:18:31.440 sort of expose it to light, but the bad news is there's a lot of this stuff. And as you point out,

00:18:35.740 a lot of this is coming out behind the scenes. And so, um, you know, I think part of my, part of

00:18:41.960 what I'm trying to do in the unprotected class is just to, to shine a light on it, to say, Hey,

00:18:46.000 this is going on. We should, we should talk about it. We should do something.

00:18:48.560 So where does it all, where does this all begin? Like the, the, the, uh, origin, I suppose of DEI

00:18:55.600 and anti-white racism. Yeah. I mean, I think you can't tell the story without telling the story

00:19:00.560 of the civil rights act. And again, where I get a little bit less, uh, autistic than some people

00:19:05.000 is I think some of them like to be super intellectually curious and say, ah, you know,

00:19:09.380 it was just the civil rights act. It was really horrible. Um, my view is civil rights act of 1964

00:19:14.200 was a response to real problems that were existing. I mean, there was, there was segregation. There was

00:19:19.200 racism, uh, things had been improving, but it was not an unreasonable. It was a blunt instrument to

00:19:25.380 solve a very real problem. And I think it turned out to be too blunt. It took away too many freedoms

00:19:30.020 over the longterm. And even more importantly, the deep state slash administrative state and future

00:19:35.420 really dubious Supreme court rulings and other things built on this and, and took it way away

00:19:40.600 from what I think everybody would have wanted it to be in 1964. But having said that, I don't think

00:19:45.280 you can tell this story without discussing the act. I don't think a lot of this happens without the

00:19:52.160 civil rights act of 1964. And I think without seriously amending our civil rights laws, I don't think we

00:19:57.840 can fix fully some of these problems. But I also think that the, the, the left has, has made a

00:20:03.900 calculated decision that they can, at least for right now, the best way to drive their agenda is

00:20:08.780 through a lens of a discrimination. So they have, they have co-opted a lot of good laws like the,

00:20:14.000 the civil rights act of 1964 and other state and local laws, um, that are really meant to be shields

00:20:20.500 to protect people from discrimination based on immutable characteristics that they have no control over

00:20:25.560 and they shouldn't be deprived of jobs or other things, uh, because of, and they've decided to

00:20:30.040 drive, you know, an agenda through that and essentially say, there's a point of view or

00:20:35.300 perspective that you need to bend the knee to. And if you don't, we're going to use this as a, as a

00:20:39.340 sword instead to, you know, harm you, to run you out of business, uh, to litigate and make,

00:20:45.780 you know, vexatiously and make your life miserable. Our, our clients deal with this all the time.

00:20:49.620 You know, we, we represented, um, um, Jack Phillips, uh, from Masterpiece Cake Shop at the U.S. Supreme

00:20:54.760 Court. We won that decision seven to two back in 2017. He's still been sued today, um, because

00:21:02.080 other folks in Colorado didn't like the outcome of that decision and just took the non-discrimination

00:21:07.760 there law and decided to attack him rather than through sexual orientation, discrimination through

00:21:13.040 gender identity discrimination and say, well, you have to bake a cake that celebrates my gender

00:21:17.820 transition. So like, this is, this is part of the problem is it's a calculated political strategy.

00:21:22.740 Where's the inverse? Where's the white Christian going to a gay bakery and asking for, uh, a cake

00:21:30.580 with Leviticus saying, if you shall lay with a man as a man lays with a woman.

00:21:34.300 That actually happened in Jack Phillips' case. I mean, that was actually one of the most interesting

00:21:37.480 parts of that case. Um, that some guy did exactly what you said, showed up at a, uh, a bake shop

00:21:43.720 in Colorado, um, that, you know, was clearly gay affirming and asked him for a cake that celebrated,

00:21:50.840 you know, uh, marriage between a man and a woman and had a few verses from scripture that, you know,

00:21:56.140 made it clear that marriage between a man and a woman. And this, and the, and the cake shop owner

00:21:59.420 said, no, I'm not going to do that. Well, then he filed a civil rights complaint. Same one that was

00:22:03.500 filed against our client, uh, alleging discrimination and Colorado kicked that and said, no, there's no

00:22:09.080 discrimination here while they continue to prosecute Jack Phillips. And I think part of

00:22:13.900 the reason we won is the selective enforcement. Oh, that actually helped you win. It did help us

00:22:18.580 win. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't what, what ultimately sealed the deal, but it was definitely

00:22:21.920 as part of the case, the whole way up was the selective enforcement by the officials. Uh, I think

00:22:25.960 it was Steven Crowder went to a bunch of, uh, Muslim bakeries and tried to get gay cakes made and they

00:22:32.240 refused and no one cared. Right. And I think this is the real issue. And, and with, I mean, what these guys do

00:22:38.180 is awesome. Okay. It's, it's great. And I, you know, they have got a lot of attorneys and I wish

00:22:41.820 they had 10 times as many, but I think what he's also showing is, is the problem of scale, right?

00:22:47.200 Which is, so they stepped in, right? But not everybody who does this can get media attention

00:22:52.720 or can have things put in. And so it's, it's not really the law that ends up deciding most of this,

00:22:57.140 unfortunately, it's these woke bureaucracies and these woke politicians.

00:23:01.180 So, so would you say in your, I don't know if you're allowed to give legal advice in this context

00:23:07.000 though, but just in your expert opinion, that's it. If a person were to go to a bakery and requested

00:23:11.720 scripture on a cake and they refuse, is that religious discrimination?

00:23:16.780 So is it religious discrimination? Well, a jurisdiction might find that it is, but my view

00:23:21.640 is that person should be, should be able to object. I mean, I will, I will order 10,000 cakes tomorrow

00:23:26.300 with Leviticus written on it to prove a point. If, if, if that is the, the actual, if maybe we should

00:23:32.660 just do it. If the big shop owner in that situation says, I have a, an objection to that message.

00:23:37.580 I disagree with him. I don't want to write on a cake. Then they should be afforded the same

00:23:41.160 treatment that our clients are to not be forced to coerce, to promote messages they disagree with.

00:23:45.360 I mean, this is the, the, the problem with the law is they're being used as a tool to force

00:23:50.520 speech that people don't want to engage. So imagine the rule needs to apply equally to everybody.

00:23:56.440 Well, even more provocatively, imagine a racially provocative thing. I'm not even going to,

00:24:00.300 you can kind of, your, your listeners can use their imagination here, right?

00:24:03.480 You're right. This is better. I should start. I, I, I will hire someone right now to start

00:24:10.200 calling as many bakers as possible saying, we want cakes that say white people are great.

00:24:16.780 That's it. Yeah. Or, or how about it's okay to be white? Right. And then that's like the,

00:24:22.400 that, that you guys remember that campaign when they put up the flyers, the point of that,

00:24:27.040 for those who are not familiar, I assume most people are, but there was this, um, um, I guess,

00:24:31.820 what do you call it? A campaign or something? It was, it was a grassroots meme campaign where

00:24:37.200 someone made a bland white image with black tech saying it's okay to be white. The point being

00:24:44.320 was that it doesn't assert that white people are better. It's not a white supremacist message.

00:24:50.460 It's just okay. Cause they knew that the, the narrative and the ideology of the woke would be

00:24:57.740 that it is not okay to be white and they would attack the message and they did.

00:25:01.020 Right. And, and Tim, this is such, I mean, I, I, I did not pay Tim to do this, but this was

00:25:05.560 originally the title of my book was it's okay to be white. And I got that for, for the exact reasons

00:25:11.440 you just said, um, I got that by the editorial staff. And finally, like two months later, we were

00:25:16.160 going to go to press soon. The sales staff came back and said, we can't sell that book to Walmart

00:25:21.020 and Costco with that title. And I said, you know, but if it was okay to be Hispanic, okay to be black,

00:25:25.720 okay to be Asian American, you wouldn't blink for a second and say that. But if it's okay, if I say

00:25:30.960 it's okay to be white, I might as well put on my clan hood. Right. And that I think just illustrates

00:25:35.620 the pervasiveness of anti-whiteness within our current context.

00:25:40.380 So is there a reason why we haven't seen a larger campaign of someone just calling 5,000

00:25:45.700 bakeries in a week and asking for these cakes? I don't, no, no reason. Usually these things

00:25:53.020 are organic. So I just, well, I would just order a cake and be like, yeah, I'd like to

00:25:57.240 have a cake made. Yeah. And we can do a variety of, so I think the, the, you know, I'm curious

00:26:03.480 if you went to a bakery and said you wanted a, uh, I want a black fist and I want to say

00:26:09.960 black power. Right. They'd probably all agree to do it. Yeah. Yeah. But if somebody objected

00:26:15.580 and they, and they had a, they had a, you know, like a, a, a, a speech based objection

00:26:20.280 to that and they were being forced to create something through their own.

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00:27:21.640 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of

00:27:27.060 Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that

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00:27:50.980 You know, skills, you know, writing that message on a cake, designing it, then they can't be coerced

00:27:57.640 to do it. I mean, this is the problem with the non-discrimination laws is that activists are

00:28:01.220 using them to force people to say messages they disagree with. So that's the line. And, you know,

00:28:05.700 the First Amendment protects written speech, you know, graphic art and a much more capacious,

00:28:11.280 you know, form of expression than that. People shouldn't be forced to do that.

00:28:14.760 Do you think if someone asked a bakery to make a white power cake and they refuse to do it,

00:28:19.620 would that be considered discriminatory based on race?

00:28:22.460 Sure.

00:28:23.260 Really?

00:28:24.020 I mean, I imagine the jurisdictions would find that. And then you'd have to decide whether there was,

00:28:28.080 you know, a First Amendment right involved. But I mean, these things all play out, right?

00:28:30.880 In the broader cultural context, and the power equation, I think, is very imbalanced. That's why

00:28:38.640 it's really important for us to be able to come in on behalf of people like Jack Phillips, who have

00:28:41.540 religious objections to same-sex marriage, and say, you can't coerce people to create art that

00:28:47.920 violates their core religious convictions related to marriage or a host of other issues.

00:28:51.960 Well, apparently you can, because they won't leave this guy in Colorado alone.

00:28:54.740 Right.

00:28:55.200 They're still going after him, aren't they?

00:28:56.500 Well, I mean, they are. And lots of times these things, you know, sadly, as a litigator,

00:29:01.220 I can say, you know, these things aren't resolved once and for all, even when you win a great

00:29:04.320 Supreme Court case. And we won Masterpiece Cake Shop 7-2. That was on religious freedom grounds,

00:29:08.920 not free speech grounds. Then just last term, we won 303 Creative, which was another Colorado

00:29:14.320 business owner who created websites, designed websites, all the content, all the imagery,

00:29:19.980 all the graphics. She did wedding websites as well. And she didn't want to be treated the same

00:29:24.300 way Jack Phillips was. So she preemptively sued Colorado and said, I need an order telling

00:29:28.520 Colorado, Colorado, I can never be forced to promote same-sex weddings through my design work.

00:29:34.520 We had to go all the way up to the Supreme Court. It took eight years to get a win in that case. Now,

00:29:38.900 you know, that didn't, it should once and for all solve the issue. But the problem is you've got,

00:29:43.940 you know, all these different actors in the private sector and in the governmental sector who don't

00:29:49.660 like the ruling and are doing everything they can to get around it. So, you know, this is part of the

00:29:53.460 lesson of Reagan's quote, you know, we, we, we are all, all are part of the process of passing

00:29:58.660 along our freedoms to the next generation. And that requires vigilance.

00:30:02.100 What if you asked a bakery in Colorado to make a cake that said white people suck?

00:30:06.580 They probably do it.

00:30:08.140 Yeah.

00:30:08.460 Is that discrimination though, if they, if they, if they were to make that message as a business?

00:30:14.120 Right.

00:30:14.900 So I'm curious because it's, it's one thing to deny someone a public accommodation,

00:30:19.360 a service based on like their, their belief or whatever. I'm wondering if there is also

00:30:25.160 a claim or is it actually just evidence of bias if a bakery is willing to make a racist statement

00:30:31.800 on a cake?

00:30:33.620 Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously I agree with Jeremy that, that we should just be able to,

00:30:37.260 that these bakeries should not be compelled to have any message that they don't want to have.

00:30:41.180 But I think the reality is, and I would love for you to test it. If you did a white power cake

00:30:44.940 and get a black power cake and call it around to a hundred bakeries, we'd get a very, very different

00:30:49.020 answer. And that's just the reality. And so that's the way the law is playing out in practice.

00:30:54.160 I think it's fairly obvious. You call an area that's predominantly conservative. They're going

00:30:58.260 to say, we're not going to make a black power or a white power cake. You call an urban liberal

00:31:02.780 center and they're going to say, how many black power cakes did you want? How about you do a BOGO?

00:31:06.440 You know, if we love the message, can we give you another one for free?

00:31:09.180 It's Steven Crowder going to Dearborn bakeries and saying, will you do this? And I'm saying no,

00:31:13.940 nobody, you know, it really is very much.

00:31:16.820 It was like, I mean, Lauren Southern, I think was banned from England for, you know,

00:31:20.160 Allah is a gay God, right? She did the, you know, sign years ago, right? It's the same thing,

00:31:25.800 which of course you could see leftists basically making that same point with those, almost those

00:31:31.400 same words, but it's perceived differently, right?

00:31:34.020 Well, I think the issue is, man, it really comes down to, I suppose, white Christian men are weak.

00:31:42.320 They're weak. There's a lot of strong ones, but, you know, the United States is a nation that

00:31:49.000 was a predominantly white Christian country and through their tolerance and acceptance have

00:31:55.200 allowed evil and degeneracy to expand rapidly to the point where we are now. I'm not saying this

00:32:00.080 country should have stayed the way it was. I have no problem whatsoever. My family come from different

00:32:05.320 racial backgrounds. So the issue, however, is a lack of, I suppose, discipline and strength in

00:32:11.740 protecting the institutions while actually allowing and being, like, if you're going to be tolerant,

00:32:18.560 you still have to say, hey, there's a line. And so my greater point is the only reason we are seeing

00:32:25.680 what we're seeing is because white people are actually split on the issue and no other racial

00:32:29.300 group is.

00:32:30.240 Tim, I'm so glad you mentioned this because this is actually something I try, I both try to stress it

00:32:34.460 in the book and I try to stress it when it comes up in interviews, which is, I am not writing this to say,

00:32:40.440 oh, like, white people should be victims. And, you know, we need to, it's not about whining the

00:32:44.160 rest. It's about saying, like, we need to have more self-respect than to be treated as second

00:32:49.260 class citizens, period. And it's like, white people are not some 1%, 2% minority in this country.

00:32:54.540 If we simply stand up and say, we're not going to allow ourselves to be treated in this way,

00:32:59.260 it will stop. But as you point out, there's a split. And not only that, we have a split within

00:33:03.260 white community. Some of them are some of the actively worst people on that. I think there's a variety

00:33:08.020 of interesting reasons why that's going on. But really, this is not about kind of creating

00:33:13.620 a new victim class. It's just to say, white people shouldn't be putting up with this. And

00:33:17.440 obviously, everybody else should be helping us not put up with it, too. But we're kind of our

00:33:22.000 own worst enemies here on a lot of this stuff.

00:33:23.980 Yeah. And I think the message, good.

00:33:25.480 No, go ahead.

00:33:25.960 Well, I mean, I just think our message should be, we shouldn't put up with race discrimination at all.

00:33:29.900 I mean, you know, race, organizing a society around, you know, like racializing everything

00:33:35.700 becomes a zero-sum game where your people must win and others must lose. And so if you look back

00:33:45.740 in American history, the most, you know, the advances for equality and justice have always been

00:33:54.320 ultimately about people like Frederick Douglass or Martin Luther King Jr. calling on for accountability

00:34:01.720 to America's founding principles, to its promise of equal protection before the law, the idea

00:34:07.020 expressed in the declaration that we're all created in the image of God, that we all have

00:34:12.080 inalienable rights given to us by God. And that equality before the law is the most important thing.

00:34:16.840 I think we're in a battle of ideas. And I think people in the kind of conservative

00:34:21.800 ecosystem feel like they're on the losing side of it. And I think that's to some extent true,

00:34:27.060 but are the ideas that formed this country and that we believe in are the ideas that can save us

00:34:34.100 from this trajectory of DEI, racializing society in this way.

00:34:38.620 I think the problem though, that you're both going to have to accept if you want to figure things out

00:34:43.660 is that white people are the most racist racial demographic in the country. They are the most,

00:34:49.560 and I can prove it. I can prove it right now. I've got proof right here. I pulled up. You can

00:34:53.200 already see it. Now, here's what I want to explain. This proves that white people are the most racist

00:34:57.400 against white people. So if you take a look, what we have pulled up is mean in-group bias by race and

00:35:04.160 ethnicity. Black people have a mean 15.58% in-group racial preference. Hispanics is 12.83, which is weird

00:35:14.100 because Hispanic means Spanish speaking person. Asian is 13.94. Perhaps they mean Latino. White

00:35:19.760 liberal is negative 13.17 and non-white liberal is 11.62. If you were to break this down, what do you

00:35:27.580 see? Of the racial groups with an in-group preference, non-white liberals are still lower than all of the

00:35:36.580 other groups. There is a lower preference for white people among non-liberal white people.

00:35:42.580 And among liberal white people, there is an out-group preference. Add these numbers up.

00:35:48.240 Liberals are the most racist. Now it's predominantly against, I should say, white people, if you were to

00:35:54.240 add it all together, will be the most racist, but it's against white people.

00:35:59.920 Tim, I'm so thrilled. I talk about this graph a lot. I've never had anybody actually show it. I'm

00:36:05.940 thrilled that you know about it because it's so important. And I should add, this graph that Tim

00:36:09.660 is showing is not from some, you know, right-wing push-pull that was trying to get a particular

00:36:14.480 result. This is standard social science survey data. It's taken from a very large data set. And

00:36:21.260 it's really fascinating, right? Because everybody, I mean, you know, yes, even it is interesting that

00:36:27.240 even non-liberal whites have less in-group preference than these other groups, but at least

00:36:32.420 those other bars are like a little bit similar. And you can kind of wave your hands and say,

00:36:36.100 ah, it's kind of the same thing going on. You sort of expect, like, people are going to have

00:36:39.600 an in-group preference. As long as that's not out of control, it's not really something I would call

00:36:44.300 a big problem, right? Like you prefer your mother to some random woman on the street.

00:36:48.280 But what's really pathological here is the white liberal, right? Which is this massive thing where

00:36:54.440 they think white people are dumber, more criminal. You go out and I really, my next book is going to

00:36:58.940 really probably be to put these guys on the couch.

00:37:00.660 They don't think that white people are stupider. White liberals believe that white people are the

00:37:05.780 supreme race. And they're guilty about it. We call them whites. We call them white supremacists

00:37:11.000 with guilty conscience. But it's true. I've encountered this quite a bit. For those that

00:37:16.140 have listened to any one of my shows, I have a story that some of you may have heard. But for the

00:37:19.940 sake of the gentleman before me, I will tell you guys, I was in North Dakota at the North Dakota

00:37:24.180 Access Pipeline protest. No, Dakota Pipeline protest, whatever it was called. And ice cold,

00:37:31.580 Native American saying, don't build this pipeline. I was only able to be there for a few days because

00:37:37.000 I had a business meeting in California, which meant I had to drive from New York to North Dakota

00:37:41.240 to California. It was a heck of a trip. Wide out conditions, driving to Montana, a whole lot of fun.

00:37:45.360 Wyoming roads were pure ice. And so we're sitting down to dinner or a lunch or whatever. And someone

00:37:52.600 asked me how long I was sticking around for. These are all leftists. And I said, I got to leave in

00:37:56.980 the morning because I got a business meeting in California in three days. And this guy smarks and

00:38:02.200 says, business meeting? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, that's colonial thinking. And I was

00:38:08.860 like, what does that mean? Colonial thinking? He's like, it's scheduling your meetings is colonial

00:38:14.480 thinking. He's like, Native Americans don't do that. They wake up when they need to wake up when

00:38:18.340 it makes sense. They do the work when the work needs to be done. It's white Europeans who brought

00:38:22.040 this idea of scheduling and meetings to, to the world and to America. And I was like, what? I was

00:38:29.980 like, Asians have time too, bro. Like we, we, like we, we have clocks. He goes, no. He's like, no,

00:38:37.240 these, these are ideas that were spread by white Europeans. And I was like, my guy, China invented the

00:38:41.580 compass. He's a white guy too. I'm like, China invented the compass 1,000 years before you,

00:38:46.260 1,000 years before you did. And he's like, but don't you think that really it's just white people

00:38:51.180 brought all that stuff to Asia? And I was like, I actually snapped on the guy and I was like,

00:38:55.300 I'm not going to sit here and have some white supremacist telling me that my culture is derivative

00:38:59.180 of his. When we did this stuff thousands of years before you, you white supremacist piece of trash.

00:39:03.800 And they were all like, it's remarkable that they genuinely believe this stuff.

00:39:08.260 You actually, you could see this in some other interesting studies they've done.

00:39:12.000 For example, when, when white conservatives talk to African-Americans in particular,

00:39:17.720 the language that they use is effectively the same as when they talk to white people. They're not sort

00:39:22.760 of talking down to them and have ways of measuring this scientist. Ah, there you go. Right there.

00:39:27.820 You're, you're, you're, you're like, you're teeing it up, right? That they, they, um, white,

00:39:32.840 white conservatives treat minorities as the same, but when white liberals get in front of

00:39:37.060 African-Americans, they, they talk down to them. Yes. Right. A Yale insights. This is Yale.

00:39:41.380 Right. White liberals present themselves as less competent in interactions with African-Americans.

00:39:47.620 That's wild. It's so weird. Yeah. For, for me, I suppose growing up in a, in an area,

00:39:54.620 in a major city, that's, that's very.

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00:40:55.040 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

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00:41:19.640 Did I mention that we care?

00:41:24.680 Mixed? You don't do this. The fastest way to get punched in the mouth is to treat someone like

00:41:31.220 they're dumb. But I feel like a lot of these white liberals, they're probably wealthier,

00:41:37.900 higher income, and they come from white enclaves. So you know what's interesting is being from Chicago,

00:41:45.500 and now everyone can say, oh, Tim said he's from Chicago again. It's Democrat controlled for 100

00:41:49.520 years. No Republicans. I have no feeling whatsoever most of my life on the Republican

00:41:54.660 party because they don't exist. Where I grew up, everything I experienced was just Democrats.

00:42:00.160 I hate Democrats. And I wonder if this is the same thing for those white liberals. They grew up

00:42:04.720 surrounded by white people. It's not that white people are bad. It's that they only ever experience

00:42:09.400 good or bad coming from white people. And so then you get a media that romanticizes these other

00:42:16.380 races, or what do they call it? The myth of the noble savage is this racist idea that they all

00:42:22.100 must be pure and good. These liberals grow up hearing these things, and then this is the worldview

00:42:27.440 they build. Yeah. I mean, I grew up in North Carolina in a highly integrated public school system,

00:42:32.480 grew up around a lot of African Americans, got to Yale, and I dealt with a lot of these white guys from

00:42:38.780 New England who'd gone to prep schools and maybe hadn't had very much exposure outside of that.

00:42:43.280 And it was really clear to me how uncomfortable they were, regardless of their professed opinions

00:42:49.380 on anything, with actually dealing with a normal African American person, right? And so, I mean,

00:42:56.380 it was really striking to me at that time, and I'm sure it's the same type of thing that you're

00:42:59.220 talking about, same type of dynamic. You know, I think that you're talking about enclaves and things

00:43:03.920 like that. I think the problem, though, is that this politicization of everything,

00:43:09.100 this racialization of everything, even whether you keep a schedule, it's colonial or whatever. I mean,

00:43:13.500 it's bizarre, but I think the problem is it's pervasive in the sense that DEI is at the root

00:43:19.360 of the education system right now. And I think as a society, we're going to be reaping the whirlwind

00:43:25.140 of that for some period of time until it gets rooted out, because that idea around, you know,

00:43:32.440 everything has to be seen through the lens of this power relationship and the oppressed-oppressor

00:43:36.580 classes. And then everything, even like whether you keep a schedule and set, you know, whatever,

00:43:41.160 a clock to get up in the morning, becomes some kind of, you know, indicator of whether you're from

00:43:46.780 a privileged class. I mean, this is really toxic, but they're teaching it to all of our kids in all

00:43:53.500 the public schools and in a lot of private schools too. So, you know, I think the problem is how

00:43:58.520 pervasive is we're challenging this in a couple of school districts. We, in Albemarle School District

00:44:02.300 in Virginia, we represent parents and also some school officials because the school adopted this

00:44:08.920 anti-racist program and started pushing it as curriculum in the schools. And parents of kids

00:44:15.720 that were multiracial would come, the kids would come home and they'd be talking in ways about their

00:44:20.340 own racial makeup that they'd had never done before, you know, all the years they've been

00:44:25.080 raising their kids in this kind of multiracial family. So, you know, it is very toxic and,

00:44:31.480 you know, it just, it kind of creeps in where people aren't, they don't fully, I don't think,

00:44:36.960 are aware yet just how pervasive it is and how it creeps into the, you know, the most innocent

00:44:41.420 settings at your school. So, you know, I think it's imperative that we root it out. And even,

00:44:46.000 I think you mentioned this, Jeremy, I saw you in an interview, talk about how down in Florida,

00:44:50.340 they, they just eliminated their DEI departments. Yeah. And I mean, that's the kind of actions we

00:44:55.460 need. We need, we need just the pure, the complete elimination of DEI departments, positions at

00:45:00.180 colleges and universities. And that needs to trickle all the way down to the, you know,

00:45:03.840 K through 12 schools too. You know, the, the reality is, you know, when you mention people

00:45:08.620 should have their free speech, we shouldn't discriminate on the basis of race. These are the

00:45:12.600 traditional liberal positions. And that's literally was social liberalism as it was referred to that

00:45:18.440 led to the 1964 civil rights act. There are a lot of post liberals that say, this is what has,

00:45:24.960 you know, uh, brought us to the point of communism, Marxism, race, communism, whatever you're going to

00:45:30.900 call it. I just, I agree and disagree. I think the issue is when we create something like the 1964

00:45:36.780 civil rights act and all the titles within it, we're basically saying, guys, we're not going to do this

00:45:41.740 thing anymore. But just because bad people are using it to do bad things doesn't mean it,

00:45:46.800 it was bad. It means we are not safeguarding it. You build a bank to hold your money and then you

00:45:54.220 walk away and someone robs it. The idea is someone goes, well, that was dumb. Why we put our money in

00:45:58.880 the same place? It's like, well, no, the problem was you weren't protecting it. You weren't saying,

00:46:03.240 stop, you can't take the money. So what we, what we need is we need to reaffirm. You can't

00:46:09.140 discriminate the basis of race that includes white people or otherwise. The problem now is the left

00:46:13.640 is quite literally discriminating the basis of race and the courts and the systems are all

00:46:19.900 agreeing with them because it's not about, it's not, it's, it's, it's never about what's written

00:46:23.880 down on law. Um, I'll give, I'll give a shout out to Wade Stotz again. He's the, he made a video about

00:46:28.340 the constitution is dead. His argument, you saw this video. I literally was in an interview in Idaho

00:46:33.620 yesterday with Wade. Oh, okay. He had a great point where he said, when a society gets to the point

00:46:39.200 where they begin writing things down, it's usually not going well. If a society is acting in a certain

00:46:44.580 way, no one writes it down because everyone is just doing the thing, right? We don't, we don't

00:46:49.400 need to write down that people should eat food to live because everyone eats food to live. And so

00:46:54.560 when we decide to write down these laws, it's because people are not agreeing on what constitutes,

00:47:01.980 you know, our, our moral framework. So we then put up a notice to everybody, this is what we've

00:47:06.420 decided. But at that point, you know, things are starting to break down. Yeah. So no, go ahead.

00:47:11.980 Well, I mean, just one thing about DEI that I want to make sure I bring out is that it's not just about

00:47:16.700 all the race issues. It certainly isn't. That's, I think a very pivotal piece of what's going on

00:47:20.060 with DEI, but it's also critical gender theory. There's a host of, of, of bad cultural things that

00:47:26.200 are happening, um, that are being driven through essentially critical gender theory. It demands for

00:47:33.000 pronoun usage demands for, you know, um, uh, puberty blockers for, for, for youth, even medical, uh,

00:47:39.960 surgical interventions for youth, um, for kids who are struggling with, you know, gender dysphoria

00:47:44.020 and things like that. Um, in the corporate world where I do a lot of work, trying to push back on

00:47:48.500 corporations being weaponized to push these agendas on the American people by bypassing democratic

00:47:53.840 accountability. DEI is really the tool that's used to push these things on corporations too.

00:47:58.720 And so like organizations like the human rights campaign scores corporations on their corporate

00:48:03.360 equality index this year to get a hundred percent, which all the corporations want on the corporate

00:48:08.720 quality index, the corporations have to provide, um, insurance coverage for puberty blockers and

00:48:15.460 surgeries for youth. And so like 70% of the American public. Why do they care about the HRC? Plus 25

00:48:23.320 states have outlawed various aspects. Why do they care what the HRC says? They all care.

00:48:27.800 But the question is why, why? Because ESG and DEI is a tool that the left has successfully used to

00:48:34.960 drive all the corporations left time to do the time. Where's the inverse? We're doing it right

00:48:38.780 now at ADF. We have shareholders creating scores. We have a score. Well, our score is the viewpoint

00:48:43.460 diversity score business index. So we, we rate all these corporations on their respect for free

00:48:47.340 speech and religious freedom. Um, and then we have a, a, a shareholder coalition that essentially uses

00:48:52.420 the same tools that the left uses to drive all these corporations down this very toxic path of ESG,

00:48:58.700 DEI, all the critical gender stuff and everything else to, as a counterweight to it. And we're actually

00:49:03.700 seeing successes. We had, we had chase dropped a, drop a policy, a hate, uh, like a hate group policy

00:49:08.660 that allowed them to, um, debank people for, um, political or religious reasons. Um, just this year,

00:49:15.980 they dropped the policy that we had made up kind of a, a key part of our advocacy with chase.

00:49:20.040 Shouldn't have policies on the books that allow you to debank people for their political or religious

00:49:24.280 beliefs or because they're involved in ESG, you know, disfavored industries and they dropped that

00:49:28.960 policy. So, you know, we are trying very hard to push back on this stuff. I feel like you're taking

00:49:34.520 the approach of the ship is sinking. Everyone needs to bail the water out to try and save the ship.

00:49:40.560 I I'm, I'm kind of partial to the make the ship sink faster idea and, uh, destroy DEI through its own

00:49:48.660 error. So, you know, what I've told people is, uh, in New York city, for instance,

00:49:54.820 gender identity, have you, you're a lawyer, have you looked at New York city's human rights law?

00:49:58.220 Sure. Absolutely amazing. Gender identity is described as self-expression.

00:50:02.680 They, you, you are, it is not, it is illegal. It's a violation of human rights in New York city,

00:50:06.560 the city specifically to discriminate on the, uh, uh, against a person based on the clothing they wear,

00:50:11.500 the names they choose to use. And so when, when this was, uh, I don't remember when it was passed,

00:50:17.780 but I do remember when it became an issue. This is probably around 2017 or 18. So I actually called

00:50:22.400 around to a few different human rights lawyers and I was like, I'm trying to understand this law.

00:50:26.620 Help me out. You can't discriminate against a person based on the clothing they wear,

00:50:30.740 the name they use, gender identity, identity is protected as self-expression. They all say,

00:50:35.400 yes, absolutely. These are New York city based human rights. And I said, okay, so that means like,

00:50:39.460 obviously if you're biologically male, but you want to be called Janet and wear a dress,

00:50:44.020 they can't fire you. And they're like, right. And I said, okay. And then there's a little bit

00:50:48.620 more nuance. Like if there's a standard uniform, then you're expected to wear the uniform. You

00:50:52.740 can't just wear whatever you want that that's interpreted by the judge. We all understand what

00:50:56.300 this means. If there is a male and female version of the uniform, you can choose whichever one you

00:50:59.940 want to wear. And I said, okay, how about for a business with no dress code? If I showed up,

00:51:06.560 if I showed up for an interview wearing normal clothes and they said, we're hiring you. And

00:51:11.320 let's say it's like a barista position. And then the next day I showed up in a full fursuit

00:51:15.520 with like a wolf cartoon wolf head. And I told them from now on, my name is Volsiferon,

00:51:20.640 Herald of the Winter Mists. And I expect to be addressed that way. It's my, as it's my full name.

00:51:25.540 Can they discriminate? All the lawyers said, yes. And I said, why? They said, because that's

00:51:31.660 ridiculous. And I said, says who? And they were like, any judge will laugh you out of the courtroom.

00:51:38.160 And I said, does that then mean a judge could laugh at a man dressed like a woman? And they were like,

00:51:42.680 well, that's different. And I said, I don't understand the legal pretext for why a judge

00:51:49.340 can laugh at a man's clothing when the law says you can't, but not another man's clothing.

00:51:54.520 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think it's beautiful logic, I think, but I think they're probably right that

00:51:59.140 it's not going to matter. I mean, this, this is what comes down to the fact that the Civil Rights

00:52:02.780 Act gives us certain protections right now, but they're not actually being enforced.

00:52:05.560 Well, so, so what do you think would happen if someone went to Starbucks with a, let's not say

00:52:12.800 a fursuit, but they had cat ears, a tail, whiskers stuck to their fake, fake teeth, and they kept

00:52:19.340 talking like this. And they said their name was Muford and they expect to be called Muford by everybody.

00:52:24.320 Right. Do you think they would win a discrimination lawsuit if they were told they couldn't do that

00:52:28.000 anymore? I don't think so. I don't think it's a protected class under the New York law. So

00:52:31.380 probably not. It says the clothing you wear in your identity though, self-expression.

00:52:35.840 Probably based in some limited sense of gender identity where they're still limiting it in some

00:52:40.600 way to male, female. What if they went in, what if they went in blackface and said, I identify

00:52:45.480 as an African-American, Rachel Doolittle? The law does not have that distinction. It literally,

00:52:50.860 so going, I went through the law and the definitions. I don't know how you can draw a distinction

00:52:56.780 between, so they have 31 legally recognized genders. I don't know, obviously the judges

00:53:04.760 exist to interpret and bring the human element into the law to find that limit. But wouldn't

00:53:09.520 this in essence create a fracture in the legal framework itself that a man who wears a dress,

00:53:17.760 what, okay, so what if you really test limits? A guy wears a dress, but he also wears fruit

00:53:20.880 on his head, like those dancers, you know, the women who had the fruit on their heads and

00:53:23.920 they would dance. I'm Miranda, yeah. Yeah, and what if they said, no, you can't do that?

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00:54:25.440 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

00:54:31.200 Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

00:54:37.040 We care about you. Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs. Weird, I don't

00:54:43.340 remember saying that part. Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big

00:54:49.280 on care. Did I mention that we care? But that's something women have done. That's clothing women

00:54:57.460 wear. Is that not protected? I mean, the problem with this is what you're kind of pointing out here

00:55:01.540 is that public accommodation laws are being abused, I think, by adding a whole host of protected

00:55:07.660 characteristics that shouldn't be included. And therefore, it's limiting even more and more

00:55:13.300 people's freedom. And the other thing that they do is they result in coercion of speech and coercion

00:55:19.760 of people's, you know, punishing of people for exercising their religious beliefs. I mean,

00:55:24.920 that's where we intersect with the great increase in protected classes and in the kind of aggressiveness

00:55:34.280 of enforcement. So in New York City, one of the lawsuits we filed was on behalf of a Jewish counselor

00:55:40.560 who didn't want to have to provide gender affirming care and was actually prohibited from providing care

00:55:48.800 to people who were struggling with gender dysphoria if the care was designed to help them embrace their

00:55:56.580 natural sex, their born sex. Isn't that weird?

00:55:59.160 And that this is all over the country. There are laws, these kind of public accommodations laws or

00:56:03.680 laws that are essentially born of the same, you know, kind of prescriptions where they're saying,

00:56:11.540 you know, the only kind of care you can provide to people who are struggling with gender dysphoria

00:56:15.640 dysphoria is, is, is gender affirming care, which essentially, you know, they have to be,

00:56:20.240 you have to provide them care that results in them embracing something other than their natural

00:56:24.020 sex. So this is a huge problem for Christians and other people of faith who are counselors who

00:56:29.960 want to be able to help people embrace their biological sex. And, you know, it's, it's, it's coercive

00:56:36.520 and it violates the first amendment.

00:56:37.880 Are y'all familiar with Big Boobs Teacher?

00:56:40.420 Yes. The one in Canada, right?

00:56:41.840 Yeah. See, I don't respect that because that was around kids.

00:56:44.680 Yeah.

00:56:44.880 But the, the general belief is that this teacher was, so all we know based on the news reports

00:56:51.640 is that one day this teacher had massive, like.

00:56:55.580 Prosthetic breasts.

00:56:56.300 Yeah. Just like massive, ridiculous, over the top cartoonish breasts. And, uh, that was,

00:57:02.720 it was like, story goes viral. Students film teacher who is dressed this way. Everyone got

00:57:07.520 mad. They said, how could this be happening? And I, I, I agree with many conservatives on this

00:57:11.960 one that regardless of the reason doing this around children is inappropriate.

00:57:14.880 But the rumor was this teacher was actually a moderate dude. Didn't like all this weird DEI

00:57:22.640 stuff. Got threatened by the school to protect himself. Said, okay, let's play baby. And then

00:57:29.640 straddled the line between wearing a fur costume and, and just being transgender. Yeah.

00:57:36.260 That is, he was doing trans clothing, but it was cartoonishly absurd. And they, they defended

00:57:45.380 him. They did. Now he's relocated, got rid of the whole thing. It was funny when he was

00:57:50.440 saying to the press that they were real boobs and he suffered from a gigantomastia, which

00:57:54.120 is, you know, enlarged breasts, like they grow too big. But the, the idea was that he was

00:57:58.580 basically trying to attack the system. Yeah. I don't know that it worked. Yeah. I don't

00:58:03.320 know that it forced them to reconcile anything. Yeah. I just think that this is the problem

00:58:08.360 of, I mean, you're making these very principled arguments in line with the law and I agree

00:58:12.660 with them. And I think they're obviously correct, but that the left is just post law. And we see

00:58:17.540 this in so many ways. Right. And it's just, they're going to do what they want and they're

00:58:20.700 not going to be held back by principles of consistency. And we see this with respect to

00:58:26.500 race all the time. I mean, that's what my book's about basically.

00:58:29.540 But, but I would say like, if it were me and I wasn't doing a show like this or any of the

00:58:33.340 other work and I was just, if I worked at a company and they started doing this stuff,

00:58:37.520 I would just go nuts with it. Like I, instead of bailing the water out, I'd be dumping the water

00:58:43.380 in. I'd, I'd be the one at fire hose. Right. And I'd show up dressed like Godzilla. And

00:58:49.080 then I'd be like, I'm, I got nothing but time. If you want to figure this one out and

00:58:53.320 have the courts litigate, these, these companies don't want to go through lawsuits. No company

00:58:57.320 does. Yeah. Every lawyer is going to go to your company and say the cost of the lawsuit

00:59:00.880 will outweigh, will outweigh the cost of the settlement. Yeah. So I, I'd imagine for anybody,

00:59:05.300 if you shut up to work dressed like big boobs teacher, and this is not legal advice, uh, the

00:59:10.180 company would try and stop you. Right. And then you'd be like, I, you know, if it were me,

00:59:14.640 I just think it were me and I, and, and a boss came up to me and they're like, you can't dress

00:59:18.300 this way in front of customers. I'd say, do you want to pay me the settlement now? Do you want to

00:59:22.960 settle? I'll, I'll quit. You give me five grand. We'll call it a settlement. Otherwise I will sue

00:59:27.220 you. I will win. And even if I don't, it's going to cost you a hundred grand. Right. They're going to

00:59:31.440 be like, here's your check the F out. Well, and this is what's happened with so-called disparate impact,

00:59:35.660 which I talk about a lot in the book that comes out of 1971 Supreme court case that basically what

00:59:41.280 it effectively does is if you have any sort of hiring process and it can be shown or, or promotion

00:59:47.300 process or whatever, that there's a substantially different outcome by race than kind of the

00:59:52.560 population coming in. You can say it has a disparate impact on this group, uh, and you can sue. Now the

00:59:59.000 reality is, and you're laughing appropriately, and it's a horrible, horrible, uh, ruling. And in fact,

01:00:03.380 the Supreme court tried to, to fix it in 1989. And then the Bush, uh, civil rights division

01:00:09.860 stupidly got, got rid of it and put it back. Um, but what happens often is it's not that there are

01:00:14.960 10 million actual lawsuits that go, um, because of this, because what happens is it all starts before

01:00:22.420 then, you know, they get threatened or they just set their policy so they can't be sued. And so to do

01:00:27.800 that, you've got to end up discriminating a lot against white people. Right. So you don't see it a lot

01:00:31.620 because somebody come like you comes up and says, Hey, I'm going to sue you. And they're like, Oh,

01:00:35.180 let's just, you know, I'll give you some money and we'll just pay, pay it off. Right.

01:00:38.900 You're like, what, what if somebody, and this may be a little crass, but honest question in your

01:00:43.720 legal experience, what if somebody shut up to work with like just a massive prosthetic male part

01:00:49.900 in their pants, clearly visible going on the side of their leg? Could they take legal action against

01:00:55.280 that person? Like, could, could they do anything to that person based on the existing law?

01:00:58.800 Well, I think they absolutely could. Yeah. They'd fire them and say, you can't do that.

01:01:02.880 I would think they would fire them, whatever. They would start some kind of disciplinary process.

01:01:07.080 I don't think you have any right to do that. Well, whether or not you think you have a right,

01:01:10.560 do you think like, so in New York, if a trans man stuffed their pants, I, I don't think the

01:01:18.840 business would do anything about it. I think it'd be scared. I think it would, I would think it would

01:01:22.160 depend on how big it got. Right. Like, I mean, to be class about it.

01:01:25.040 Big boops teacher. I mean, this is Canada, but they defended big boops teacher. Yeah.

01:01:28.840 I mean, this is the problem with these laws and the way in which that they, you know,

01:01:32.740 they're being enforced and the kind of demands that people believe are associated with them

01:01:38.600 because of the way government officials talk about them and enforce them in courts is that

01:01:42.540 they chill expression. They chill people's willingness to object to them. They also chill people's,

01:01:48.860 you know, willingness to exercise their, their actual constitutional rights in response to them.

01:01:54.260 So, you know, this is the, this is the problem with the way in which the non-discrimination

01:01:58.240 laws have been wielded by the left to drive their political agenda. It's about bending the knee.

01:02:03.440 And if you don't bend the knee, you're going to be silenced. You're going to be chased out of

01:02:06.300 business. You're going to be punished in different ways. And, you know, I think that's why it's so

01:02:10.060 important for us to continue to push back against these things and try to get the laws, as you said,

01:02:15.260 Tim earlier, which are actually good laws, important laws that express basic principles, like everyone's equal

01:02:20.700 before the law, race doesn't matter, you know, and access to school or anything else, um, and restore

01:02:25.860 them to those, to, to, to those, those, those hallowed grounds rather than allowing them to be

01:02:31.040 manipulated for, you know, political gain.

01:02:34.400 I want to show you guys this, uh, you know what this is.

01:02:37.240 Yeah.

01:02:37.860 You're, you're, you're, I've got my pulse on the thing up. You're like, Oh yeah, here we go.

01:02:40.320 This is the Smithsonian's whiteness, uh, flyer. Uh, Jeremy, have you seen this one?

01:02:47.620 I have not.

01:02:48.320 So this is everything they claim that is whiteness, rugged individualism. This is a white

01:02:55.060 people thing. Self-reliance. Wow. Individuals assumed to be in control of their environment.

01:03:01.520 You get what you deserve. That's amazing. Independence and autonomy, highly valued and

01:03:06.940 rewarded. The individual is the primary unit. Family structure, father, mother, 2.3 children

01:03:12.500 is the ideal social unit. Husband is breadwinner and head of household. Wife is homemaker and

01:03:16.640 subordinate to the husband. Children should have own rooms and be independent. What is this is

01:03:22.860 whiteness? Yeah.

01:03:24.520 Objective, rational, linear thinking, cause and effect relationships, quantitative emphasis. Here we go.

01:03:32.280 History based on Northern European immigrants experience in the U S heavy focus on the British

01:03:36.660 empire, the primacy of Western Greek and Roman and Judeo-Christian tradition. Protestant work

01:03:42.360 ethic. Hard work is the key to success. I'm sorry. That's a scientific fact. But anyway,

01:03:48.180 work before play. If you didn't meet your goals, you didn't work hard enough. Christianity is the

01:03:53.500 norm. Anything other than Judeo-Christian tradition is foreign, no tolerance for deviation from single

01:03:58.860 God concept. Wealth equals worth. Your job is who you are, respect and authority, blah, blah,

01:04:04.240 blah, blah. Uh, justice based on English common law, protect property entitlements intent. What

01:04:10.660 else is it? Communication. The King's English rules, written tradition, avoid conflict and

01:04:14.980 intimacy. Don't show emotion. Don't discuss personal life. Be polite. You know, it's really

01:04:20.320 like, this is what, one of the most shockingly racist and offensive things, but also the stupidest

01:04:26.880 because you could apply almost all of these things, except for the obvious, like Northern European

01:04:32.200 history. You could apply a lot of these things to Asians outside of religion and history. A lot of the

01:04:40.340 same ethics, work, worth job, all of these things apply. In fact, even more so to many Asian cultures.

01:04:46.880 Yeah. I mean, this is from the Smithsonian National Museum of African-American history and it's,

01:04:52.460 it's a white supremacist document, right? Planning for the future. Right. Planning for the future is

01:04:57.880 like, I'm, I'm offended because no one plans for the future better than Asians. I'm allowed to say

01:05:03.980 that. I think, uh, it is, it is actually known that China implements what they call like their

01:05:08.600 thousand year plans. Other cultures don't have that degree of long-term planning in their, in their

01:05:14.100 history and in their culture. Uh, delayed gratification, progress is always best. Tomorrow will be

01:05:18.800 better following rigid time schedules. It is absolutely remarkable. The people who make this

01:05:26.040 have no concept of the Eastern hemisphere. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And one of my

01:05:33.520 favorites. It's unbelievable how derogatory this is to people who are not white. I know. This is

01:05:39.100 unbelievable. And that's the, one of the things that always cracks me up, I guess, but also disgusts me

01:05:44.740 about DEI and his proponents is they are the worst stereotypers of all. Of course. It's like the

01:05:49.900 Supreme court said in the, in the Harvard decision, you know, one of the things that our law simply

01:05:53.540 doesn't accept as a first principle is the way you, the color of your skin determines what you've,

01:05:59.180 how you think it is yet. That's, that's like the, the primary kind of philosophy, I think of

01:06:05.200 proponents of DEI. But again, we're looking in, and right now we have a good Supreme court. And so

01:06:08.940 at least much better than it has been. Um, and so that's great, but I look at Biden's judges and

01:06:14.360 this is something I wrote about and Tucker picked it up and other people ran with it of the first

01:06:18.880 97 federal judges he appointed in his first two years, there were 22 African-American women and five

01:06:25.460 white men. Now, if you look by any objective measures of qualifications, which maybe I'm just

01:06:31.240 showing my white supremacy by, by putting that up there, um, you will not get anything like that

01:06:36.440 ratio. I mean, absurd, like, and so we're having now judges put in the system who basically are

01:06:43.640 going to buy into that logic. You're showing up there in some, but Biden, Biden called Kamala

01:06:47.060 diversity hire. Yeah. You see that he's like, you know, we, we champion diversity, equity,

01:06:51.900 inclusion, and it starts with the vice president. It's like, Oh wow. I mean, she didn't earn any

01:06:56.420 delegates in the primary and Biden said he was going to choose a woman of color. Right. So this is

01:07:03.340 quite amazing. Right. You know, uh, who, who was it? Um, I'm forgetting the guy's name. Uh,

01:07:12.540 who was it who said this? There's a guy who said that, uh, he shorts companies

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01:08:43.060 on care. Did I mention that we care? Autocracy because any company that decides the person for

01:08:52.220 the job is appropriate based on their skin color instead of the capability to do the job,

01:08:56.660 then they're going to sink. Yeah. Their, their, their numbers are going to go down. It's going to be,

01:09:02.880 you know, and you're going to make money off shorting them. Yeah. Yeah. It's really,

01:09:06.400 really interesting on that point is that one of the studies that has driven a lot of the kind of

01:09:12.620 racial quotas and even just kind of like sexual minority quotas and things at the board level of

01:09:19.040 these big corporations are McKinsey studies that basically came out in 2015. And then they repeated

01:09:24.860 several times and said that firm performance is better. You're going to have a better, more valuable

01:09:31.380 company. You're going to have better performance across the board. If you have diversity as defined

01:09:36.460 by the left, you know, the box checking experience based on intersectionality

01:09:39.940 representing your boardroom. Well, a study just came out looking at all of McKinsey's studies and

01:09:45.540 McKinsey is, you know, basically gospel for these, these, these boards of major corporations

01:09:50.940 and said they couldn't replicate any of their conclusions. It's not true. Basically McKinsey

01:09:57.260 foisted that on corporate America, but so many companies followed suit and now are essentially

01:10:03.460 imposing racial quotas, sexual minority quotas, um, you know, sex-based quotas. And that's just not

01:10:11.000 the right. You got to have people with a diversity of thought experience background who benefit your

01:10:16.220 business and fill experience or know-how or knowledge gaps on your board. So you have the

01:10:22.360 best possible picture of how to run your business successfully. I'm, I'm, I'm somewhat in a sense,

01:10:27.920 okay with it just somewhat. Um, the problem I see is I'll, I'll give you a more real world example

01:10:34.960 of, of this. There was a transgender anarchist Satanist in New Hampshire who ran for the Republican

01:10:40.980 sheriff primary and won. And then once the Republicans found out who they voted for,

01:10:45.860 they lost their minds. Now this was the primary, the Democrat ended up winning,

01:10:48.900 but my attitude is shame on you to the people who voted and then were shocked to realize they voted

01:10:56.720 for a transgender anarchist Satanist. And we're upset about it. You didn't actually look into who

01:11:01.920 you were voting for. You just checked a box next to an R and assumed you'd be good. So the issue is

01:11:08.240 with these big corporations, they have become lifeless, bland entities with no leadership anymore.

01:11:17.240 Rife for manipulation. It's bad what's happening in the big picture, but part of it makes me laugh that

01:11:24.060 these corporations are now comprised of individuals who don't care about the system they work for.

01:11:28.980 They don't care about the company, the betterment of the American people. You've got someone in the

01:11:32.900 HR department and they're hearing, Hey, look, diversity because of the law. And they go,

01:11:37.340 then they go to the boss and the boss says, I don't want to get sued. Just do whatever we're

01:11:40.740 legally required to do. So instead of actually caring about this country and caring about their

01:11:45.760 company, they say, just we'll do whatever they tell us. We don't care. And then it all ends up

01:11:51.380 burning down around them. Vice is a really great example of this. So there was a viral tweet. I

01:11:57.760 think it was Wesley Yang pointing out, Washington Post is bleeding viewers. It's apocalyptic for

01:12:04.480 the Washington Post. Half their viewership is gone, their audience. And so the editor comes in and he's

01:12:09.300 like, look, this has got to change. We've got to bring in new people. No one is reading what you

01:12:13.720 write. No joke. The response from the staff was, have you considered hiring more black women?

01:12:19.080 And the editor was just like, are you insane? So he brought in some guys, some white guys,

01:12:27.040 and they complained saying like, we couldn't help, but notice you just brought in some white guys.

01:12:31.520 And he said, no, I brought in the people with experience in the industry that know how to turn

01:12:34.860 this around. This is a wake up call. Vice and Buzzfeed and these other companies, but Vice is a great

01:12:42.060 example. They're really great examples of the, there are no great men anymore. There are no captains

01:12:51.040 who will go down with the ship. What happened at Vice? Multi-billion dollar evaluation. Young people,

01:12:59.400 overly woke, made demands of the company, and the leadership of the company dropped to their knees

01:13:03.920 and said, we will do anything you say. Because they were more concerned about what would be

01:13:09.660 reflected on them as individuals than what would make the company work and people, and now what

01:13:14.180 happened? Everybody loses their jobs. Company's valuation is zero. They're bankrupt on the verge

01:13:19.680 of collapse. Owners don't care. They got paid. They left. They stripped the copper out of the walls and

01:13:25.060 then jumped ship. Yeah. The irony of course is Gavin McInnes was the founder of Vice who became kind of

01:13:31.340 this figure who was getting banned from X and YouTube and everything else for his right-wing-ness,

01:13:37.180 and then as often these institutions do, they just get taken over by the woke left, and they go crazy

01:13:43.120 on race issues, and you get the sort of results you're talking about. It's a really great, you know,

01:13:48.260 you could have predicted this for Vice, I'd imagine. You get Saru Shalvi, Shane Smith, Gavin McInnes,

01:13:53.540 the original founders of Vice magazine. It was called Voice of Montreal. They moved to the United States,

01:13:57.440 becomes Vice, skyrockets in popularity as they expand rapidly, and then I don't know the full

01:14:03.220 history or whatever, but I know around, I think like 2007, 2008, conflict emerged between Shane and

01:14:09.260 Gavin. Gavin originally, Gavin McInnes was originally, and you could, Gavin, I would love to talk to him

01:14:15.520 about this because he can probably break it down better. If he wants to, I don't know, it might be

01:14:18.240 Water Under the Bridge, it's an old story, but he was the content guy. He's like, I do the content, and it was edgy.

01:14:23.440 He was sex, drugs, and rock and roll. That's what Gavin is. Shane did marketing to promote and push

01:14:28.580 the brand, and Saru Shalvi, I believe, was the one who originally started it. Saru Shalvi said, look,

01:14:33.100 whatever, I'm with Shane. Shane says, we want to make money, so we can't do things like this anymore.

01:14:37.440 Gavin says, screw you, you don't have the right to tell me I can't make this content. They bought him

01:14:41.240 out. Gavin leaves, says, fine, whatever. That right there shows you the bigger concern for the

01:14:47.340 remaining founders' advice was, maximizing profit based on what the machine has asked us to do.

01:14:53.980 What happens? Ten years after that, the company has blown up. It shot straight to the sky. The

01:15:01.300 founders probably extracted whatever they could, and now it's just, I don't know, gum stuck to the

01:15:06.860 bottom of a table. Yeah, remarkable. I want to go back to something you said, too, about the

01:15:11.220 corporations. I don't think it's that the leadership is saying, go tell us what the law says,

01:15:17.080 and we'll do what the law says. Because if they were doing that, the attorneys would come back to

01:15:21.300 them and say, Title VII doesn't allow you to do most of this stuff. It's illegal for you to do a

01:15:25.460 lot of the things that the DEI program department is telling you to do. I think part of it is what

01:15:30.680 you mentioned, which is there's a lot of, well, we've trained young people in DEI. These activists

01:15:37.120 show up at the companies, and they demand these kinds of programs and things from corporate leaders,

01:15:42.560 and corporate leaders are caving. But the other part of the story that I think people need to

01:15:45.540 understand is the role the big asset managers and the proxy advisors play in the ecosystem of big

01:15:53.520 corporate America. BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street, they demand things that the law doesn't

01:15:59.840 demand, in fact, that are contrary to law, of these corporations related to DEI, related to ESG.

01:16:07.520 And so do the proxy advisory services, ISS and Glass-Lewis, who recommend how millions and

01:16:13.020 millions of Americans' proxies are voted every year on shareholder proposals at these corporations.

01:16:18.060 And what happens is these five big companies basically tell the corporations, we want you to

01:16:23.720 go further and further down the path of ESG, whether it's the climate stuff or the S of ESG, which is DEI.

01:16:30.720 And they go further and further down the path every year because there's no real counterweight to that.

01:16:36.080 So that's a huge part of the story that why these corporations are captured and do so many bad things like

01:16:42.240 debanking, like deplatforming and censorship. I mean, these things are all rooted in this worldview that's

01:16:48.760 represented by ESG and DEI in the end.

01:16:51.640 But taking advice from their lawyers and doing what they have to do, it's more nuanced, I suppose.

01:16:58.120 I would say to the letter of the law, I'd agree with you.

01:17:00.000 But in my experience dealing with lawyers is they don't, you know, the lawyers I've dealt with on numerous

01:17:06.480 occasions, and you are a lawyer, so you can tell me what it's like in your experience actually having done the

01:17:09.820 work. I don't get lawyers who come to me and say, here's the law, here's how it should be applied.

01:17:14.560 They say, here's the law, here's what will happen in court.

01:17:18.280 So when they come and they say, you know, I'm in a lawsuit and they go, okay, based on everything you

01:17:26.460 presented, you are 100% correct, in the right, and you'll win. Based on how the courts actually

01:17:31.320 work, you've lost, pay them their money. And I'm like, well, how does that make sense? And they're

01:17:35.380 like, because they're going to use manipulative tactics, they're going to draw, they're going to

01:17:42.000 request continuances, they're going to make weird demands of you that strain you, you're not going

01:17:47.900 to win the actual legal fight. You can cite the law all you want, you're not going to win.

01:17:51.380 And what? We had one lawsuit we were approaching. And the first question we get from the lawyer was

01:17:58.380 not, is the law on your side? He goes, I see the laws on your side. Which jurisdiction do you want

01:18:03.760 to file this in? Because that'll determine whether you win or not. So these corporations are probably

01:18:09.380 looking at it like, okay, do we operate in California and New York? We do? Okay, then we have to base

01:18:16.540 everything off of the standard of the court and the judges of California and New York and not

01:18:21.360 what the law says. So their lawyers, I would imagine, are going to them and saying, if you

01:18:26.680 engage in DEI, which is blatantly illegal, you're good. California, New York, despite the law, will

01:18:34.780 still protect you. And that's where your biggest pain vectors are going to be. Anybody who files any

01:18:39.700 claim will, if we can, move it to those venues so that we win and we'll take that path.

01:18:44.860 Yeah, I think this is actually really important because the left is expert at this. I mean, I saw,

01:18:49.120 I ran for a little while, a pretty large bureaucracy in the Trump administration. And I saw

01:18:53.920 from that how terrible conservatives are at running large bureaucracies and manipulating them

01:18:59.140 from my own painful experience. And the left is expert at doing these procedural rules. And just what

01:19:06.320 you said, you know, they'll get a big outlying state or even be a small outlying state. And they

01:19:11.640 will take those advantageous rules and make sure to apply maximum pain and pressure to you to make you

01:19:17.940 run with them so that you will be taking the most left-wing view. And it could be race,

01:19:21.700 it could be the environment, it could be any number of things.

01:19:24.520 Yeah. But is that something that you deal with in law, that you've got different venues,

01:19:29.880 different jurisdictions?

01:19:32.620 Yeah, you're always looking at where, you know, where you're more likely to win or lose,

01:19:36.400 you know, especially when you're looking at the circuit courts and kind of litigation we do

01:19:39.020 with First Amendment litigation. You know, you know that there's some circuits that are going to

01:19:43.540 probably be more favorable to your claims. You've got a better chance at getting three judges at a

01:19:48.620 circuit court, you know, that'll rule for you. I mean, it used to be for years that the Ninth

01:19:53.180 Circuit Court of Appeals, it's not like this anymore. I think Trump has put a lot of really

01:19:56.720 good judges on the Ninth Circuit and tipped the balance. But it used to be for years, if we wanted

01:20:01.640 to get a case to the Supreme Court, we probably needed to file something, you know, one of those

01:20:06.520 kinds of cases in the Ninth Circuit, because we knew we might win at the lower courts. When we got

01:20:10.540 the Ninth Circuit, we'd lose, and then we could appeal to the Supreme Court. You knew you'd lose.

01:20:13.800 Well, I mean, it was, I mean, it wasn't guaranteed. Right, but you wanted to lose.

01:20:17.180 But it was almost certain. Yeah, and sometimes, you know, well, sometimes you have to lose.

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01:21:49.180 Just to win. Like if you lose at the court of appeals, then you can file a cert petition,

01:21:53.640 ask the Supreme Court to hear it. And lots of times, two thirds of the time, they're going to

01:21:57.180 reverse on appeal. So if you're in a losing position on appeal at the court of appeals, then,

01:22:03.180 you know, you've, at least you're going into it, you're thinking, well, I've got a 66% chance of

01:22:07.120 winning. I've been in lawsuits. This one was a couple of years ago. This was a bigger, you know,

01:22:12.400 free speech one. And the judges, the lawyers are like, this is, this is what we're doing. This is

01:22:17.480 what we've got. The evidence is on our side, the law is on our side. And then a month later,

01:22:21.100 they were like, guys, sorry, we were assigned judge so-and-so. So we're going to, we're going to

01:22:25.180 drop it. That's it. We've lost. And I was like, well, really? Like this judge will,

01:22:29.720 doesn't matter what the law says. Right. And they were like, wow. And they're like,

01:22:32.740 our best opportunity is to try and drop it, refile something different and try and get a

01:22:37.500 different venue. And that's, and that's, what's terrifying. And I know I'm not going to out any

01:22:41.920 particular people, but let me just say, I know from earlier times in my life, some of these new

01:22:46.180 judges, Obama is putting on the court actually. And I know what are two of them actually. Okay.

01:22:51.700 But I also know some folks that I'm like, it wouldn't matter what the merits of my case were on race.

01:22:55.620 If I, if I put them before that judge, they're going to rule against me. They will find a way

01:22:59.520 to rule against me. I mean, look at Mershon in the, in the, in the, in the Trump case just now.

01:23:03.420 Yeah. That judge blatantly, I mean, you had Alan Dershowitz saying, I have never seen anything like

01:23:08.320 this. The judge screaming at a witness. Yeah. So, I mean, I, so something I think is really

01:23:13.680 important to understand though, is that like, from my perspective, you can do all the, you can run all

01:23:17.840 the traps. You can look at the composition of the courts. You can try to figure out where I'm going to

01:23:20.440 and when I'm going to, where am I going to lose. In the end, the way I look at it is you got to,

01:23:23.780 you got to file what was right. What's good. You got to stand for truth and trust for my

01:23:28.340 perspective, trust God with the outcome. So I'll give you an example. We, we we've, I filed a case

01:23:33.500 in Arizona. I don't know when it was a long time ago on behalf of the small little church, 14 people

01:23:38.580 met in a little school. All they want to do was put up temporary signs, tell people where the church

01:23:42.060 was. And the town of Gilbert said, no, we're not gonna let you do that. Even though they let all

01:23:46.280 these other signs proliferate, proliferate political signs and signs of all different shades and colors

01:23:50.840 and views, church signs. No, I lost that case. My team lost that case four times, twice the district

01:23:56.980 court, twice to the court of appeals. And 10 years later, you know, we're at the Supreme court. We

01:24:02.380 didn't know. We thought we would win, but we didn't know. We ended up getting a just fantastic

01:24:07.120 unanimous decision from the Supreme court saying that that violated the first amendment free speech

01:24:11.000 rights of the church. And now it's essentially a seminal first amendment case. So it's, I think

01:24:17.320 it's risky to sit or to spend too much time trying to figure out where should I file this? Where can

01:24:22.840 I win? Where am I going to win or lose? I mean, if you're, if your cause is just, you have to trust

01:24:27.880 the process. And I think the process still can deliver the right result. I would like to see

01:24:32.980 10,000 people request of their bakeries, um, it's okay to be white cakes and some Leviticus cakes.

01:24:39.340 Because, you know, I think the issue is the challenge, I suppose people on the right,

01:24:46.460 whatever the right means these days, people believe in free speech don't want to compel,

01:24:50.840 compel bakeries to do these things. It is the left that does that. Yep. I just wonder what the media

01:24:56.740 would report on when you go from one story of a guy with a bakery who won't make a cake to

01:25:03.420 all of a sudden there are 10,000 discrimination instances, not necessarily lawsuits where

01:25:10.820 national level media is going to be like a wave of right-wing activists are demanding that gay

01:25:15.400 bakeries make Leviticus cakes and they're all refusing completely undermining the position the

01:25:21.000 left has on non-discrimination. Yeah. I would love to see us do it. Right. Um, I think it would be

01:25:26.700 great. It's one of those things that frustrates me. And your worst case scenario is you get a cake.

01:25:30.600 Look at that. Yeah. You bring, you bring home a Leviticus cake to your family. You bring it to

01:25:34.620 church. Everybody gets a piece. They all laugh together. And that's the end of it. And it's

01:25:38.080 like you spent 30 bucks. Yeah. Everybody's laughing or the bakery refuses. Right. You go to local media

01:25:45.160 or you pursue a suit or whatever. And then there's 10,000 lawsuits for religious discrimination.

01:25:50.460 Um, yeah, I wonder about this. I mean, if Christians, if white people really want to stop being

01:25:56.780 discriminated against in the areas where they are, they're going to have to assert their right to,

01:26:02.440 or, or that, that demand that you don't do this. Yeah. So it is, it is a rock and a hard place.

01:26:08.080 We don't want to compel people to speech. That's the issue, but they're actively discriminating

01:26:13.940 in the process while attacking you for not wanting to speak. Yeah. I completely agree. I mean, I,

01:26:20.900 it, it, it frustrates me to no end that we are not more aggressive in these areas. I would love us

01:26:25.360 to, to see us do everything that you're just describing. I think we should do the campaign.

01:26:30.560 That's great. How hard is it for someone to order a cake? You know what I mean? Yeah. And like the

01:26:35.420 thing I was asking about like a white power cake is obviously that's evocative. Right. I mean,

01:26:40.740 you want to be more careful, right? In terms of you want to pick as, you know, from being a lawyer,

01:26:44.340 right? You want to pick a really good case. So it's probably not white power, but maybe it's,

01:26:48.600 maybe it's, it's, it might not even be, it's okay to be white. It might need to be something

01:26:51.900 more edgy, but, but, but something, yeah, Leviticus, whatever it is, you know, you, and

01:26:55.760 you find the bakery that is going to be unhappy with you and you find an atheist cake maker and

01:27:00.100 tell them, put a cake that says God is real on the cake. I would love to do it. I got to be honest.

01:27:05.540 I feel like a lot of atheists would have no problem writing God is real on a cake. It's the,

01:27:10.640 it's the woke, overly woke one. So if you went to an overtly LGBTQ bakery is where you're going to

01:27:16.420 start encountering more ideological, you know, rigidity, you go to a bakery and it's like some

01:27:22.440 default lib atheist and they're like, sure. All right. God is real. I don't know. You can do

01:27:27.000 whatever you want. You know what I mean? They're not really paying attention. They vote Democrat,

01:27:29.680 but they don't care all that much. Yeah. However, they would definitely say no to a, a white is,

01:27:34.500 white is good or something cake. Right. Yeah. I mean, and it's not just cakes, right? We, we could be

01:27:39.480 doing this in a million different ways and we should. Um, and we don't have the appetite for this.

01:27:44.400 I mean, it's just like I, in my book, I talk a little bit about civil disobedience, I think as

01:27:49.280 something that we should get a little bit involved with, but I also talk about a, it doesn't work

01:27:53.280 for us in the way that it often works for the left and B it's just not constitutionally part of the

01:27:58.500 way the right thinks about things. Well, look what happened to the truckers in Canada. You know,

01:28:02.780 they did civil disobedience and what the, what the government do, they debanked them and their donors,

01:28:07.800 you know? So this is, you know, the, I, I do think there's, you know, the power imbalance is still real.

01:28:14.000 Yeah. Um, and we do need to try to fight on, on, on turf that we can win. Right. And, you know,

01:28:20.680 I think the civil disobedience, they're going to, they're going to come back and clap back on us in

01:28:25.340 ways that we probably don't, um, when the shoe is on the other foot. So it's. I wonder what would

01:28:30.740 happen if someone requested a bakery and make a cake, someone called a woke bakery and told them to

01:28:37.020 make a cake that says black, black people are the superior race. Would the bakery want to do that?

01:28:42.400 Hmm. Cause now you're really just pushing them as hard as possible in their own direction. Yeah.

01:28:48.680 Cause they might be like, well, that goes a little too far. Yeah. You know, but then they might be on

01:28:52.920 the wrong side of history in their minds if they're not willing to. Right. Well, and then the first

01:28:56.520 thing you should also make it clear is like, as soon as they bake that cake, you're going to be taking a

01:29:00.240 picture of it and putting it on X and like, I'm going to go on Tim cast and, you know, blast that out to

01:29:05.200 the whole world to make sure people know, you know, this would actually, this is a really great

01:29:08.960 campaign idea for science. And it's to, uh, I would imagine you'd want to go to a polling,

01:29:16.240 a company that is polling because they have the map of demographics and the, you know, they,

01:29:21.460 they basically have their, their, uh, regional national makeup that representative makeup.

01:29:27.480 And then you would use that and order a cake in each area that represents certain swing,

01:29:32.180 certain, certain voter blocks. And then you could actually map out which voter blocks were willing

01:29:36.760 to make which message, you know, that'd be pretty interesting. It would be fast. Yeah.

01:29:42.560 But I suppose the, the, I suppose the bigger question though, is outside of any kind of silly

01:29:47.780 prank campaign or something where we try and test the limits and see what they're willing to do.

01:29:51.120 Yeah. I suppose the question is if we pursue the route of let's just play it straight, let's say,

01:29:56.680 Hey, stop discriminating. You know, what do you guys think the outcome becomes? Are we winning this

01:30:02.360 pushback to this more standard non-discrimination or does it just escalate and people become more and

01:30:08.960 more divided? Well, I'll, I'll give you a political answer and then maybe you can give a legal answer

01:30:12.600 is, is to me, this is just like what has happened over the last 60 plus years is the left has organized

01:30:19.520 and made various racial demands. The white has made what the white, the, the right has made the white,

01:30:24.940 the white, for any sleep there, the right has made, uh, you know, various broad,

01:30:30.680 Gazi appeals to principle and we've gotten steamrolled politically. The way that this happens

01:30:36.180 is the left has to understand that when they engage in anti-white racism or other discrimination,

01:30:41.480 there is a painful political price that they pay immediately because we say enough. And then at

01:30:48.180 that point, maybe like when they've really gotten hit, you can begin to, the moderates come out on

01:30:55.000 both sides and say, yeah, you know, let's, let's, we don't want to interject race into politics.

01:30:59.500 This is a bad idea, right? It doesn't work for anybody. Um, let's try to restore constitutional

01:31:05.340 principles, content of character, not color of skin, et cetera, to this discourse and, and how we

01:31:11.520 behave. But I think just asking nicely, pretty please has been shown not to work just empirically.

01:31:16.620 Right. And so I think there has to be a pain point for the left or they're not going to stop.

01:31:21.880 Yeah. And I think, you know, it kind of comes down to the whole fight fire with fire. I mean, I,

01:31:26.180 so I'm, I'm, I resist the, the idea I think that's expressed in, in, in that phrase from the

01:31:32.560 standpoint, if it just means whatever they do to us, we do to them. I think we have to be principled

01:31:36.660 about it, but I always try to tell folks within the conservative circles that I, I, I kind of operate

01:31:42.220 in is we have so many tools already on the books that we just don't use. Um, and they're principled

01:31:50.080 tools, they're tools related to non-discrimination, um, you know, equal protection under the law

01:31:54.840 and all these things. And we're seeing some of those lawsuits being filed. I mean, there are

01:31:58.100 organizations out there, uh, including us, but others that are, that are especially, I think

01:32:02.500 there's some that are really leading on the race discrimination side of these DEI programs

01:32:06.120 who are scoring wins. And I think in the end that you read these decisions, it's absolutely clear

01:32:12.580 that you can't award contracts on the basis of race. You can't make government, uh, you know,

01:32:17.680 grants dependent on the race of the applicant. I mean, these are basic baseline principles

01:32:23.740 of the constitution and of a lot of relevant federal statutes. Um, and so I think for whatever

01:32:32.080 reason, there was a period of time where this stuff crept up and nobody knew, um, or there was

01:32:37.460 an unwillingness to use the available tools to push back. But those things are happening now.

01:32:41.960 I think in the end, legally, there are going to be consequences. There's probably going to be

01:32:46.400 painful ones from a monetary award and otherwise consequences. Um, but I think there's a, the real

01:32:52.900 thing we have to win is the battle of ideas. We have to win people's hearts and minds. We have

01:32:57.360 to reconvince them. Yeah. That you have to win the culture. That's why they're going after kids in

01:33:01.200 schools. There's no question. Yeah. There's this tweet that Christopher Rufo posted. I think it's

01:33:05.860 hilarious. It's from Ibram Kendi. Yeah. He says, and I guess the guy's name is Henry. Yeah. Henry

01:33:11.380 Rogers, I believe. Henry Rogers. And he calls himself Ibram X. Kendi because it's like a brand or

01:33:15.680 something. Right. He wrote more than a third of white students lied about their race on college

01:33:19.920 applications. And about half of these people lied about being native American. More than three

01:33:24.380 fourths of these students who lied about their race were accepted. Rufo says, behold, the tweet

01:33:28.600 that ended it all. There has never been a, a, a self debunking this spectacular, this glorious,

01:33:33.920 right? All that's happened when they create these things that people lie. Yeah. When I was a kid,

01:33:39.740 my parents, uh, my dad said, never put down Asian on an application.

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01:35:13.120 And I was like, why not? He's like, they're allowed to legally discriminate against Asians.

01:35:16.620 Put Mexican or Hispanic or something. Yeah. Because then they'll give you some benefits.

01:35:20.800 And I said, why? And he goes, because Asians aren't a strong voting bloc. That's it.

01:35:24.200 Yeah. Well, there's a lot of truth to that. I mean, Chris was a kind endorser of the book

01:35:29.600 that I wrote. And I mean, he's an incredibly effective operator. So it's always, I think,

01:35:34.020 good to follow his lead on a lot of this stuff. And I think it'll be interesting to see whether at

01:35:38.820 some point we hit up against an end of the maximum return to that strategy. But I think everything he's

01:35:45.780 done so far has been great. I just wonder how much of what we're seeing is people lying.

01:35:51.080 Like when we see the in-group, out-group preference among white people,

01:35:54.660 is it literally just scared white college kids being like, oh yeah, whatever you say,

01:35:59.440 I'm not racist? Well, it's fascinating. I mean, and I, again, I write about this in the book as

01:36:03.860 just kind of one example of this that you could point to. So Eric Kaufman, who is a race and ethnicity

01:36:09.700 scholar himself of multi-ethnic background, did a really, really elegant kind of real world study

01:36:16.900 where he basically looked at where Trump voters moved, white Trump voters versus where white

01:36:24.020 Biden voters moved, or maybe it was Hillary Clinton voters. I can't remember what year he did it.

01:36:28.240 And he had a pretty large end on the study. And it turned out that even though white,

01:36:33.480 the liberal white Biden voters were trashing white people left and right, they moved to just as white

01:36:38.600 areas as the white Trump voters. Yep.

01:36:41.260 So that suggests there is a certain amount of preference falsification, as scholars would say,

01:36:46.660 going on here. I mean, this is a guy who says that the only cure to past discrimination is present

01:36:52.200 discrimination. So, I mean, he's completely, you know, in the can and, you know, a leader.

01:36:59.960 He needs there to be racism so that he can make money. So he's telling everyone to be racist.

01:37:03.360 But we're not always going to be so lucky to get this guy as our opponent. I mean,

01:37:08.300 it's going to be insidious. There's going to be stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

01:37:11.500 We're so lucky to get this guy.

01:37:12.660 Yeah. I mean, right? Like, he's easy. And this is my concern is that we will

01:37:16.940 chalk up some wins, just like you're saying. I mean, there's blatant discrimination going on

01:37:21.260 now that we seem to have finally woken up a little bit about that. We're going to get some wins and

01:37:25.080 people are going to feel like, yeah, the system is working really well. And I think history shows,

01:37:31.340 at least recent U.S. history, that this is kind of a little bit of a ratchet. So

01:37:34.780 then they come back in a different guise, in a different way, and they're doing a lot of the

01:37:39.440 same stuff, which isn't to say we should absolutely be doing these things. And it's great that we

01:37:43.660 went on any of them. But I don't think that this is just going to be a long, happy march back to

01:37:48.700 centrism or something sensible. I think the bifurcation in American culture is leading us to

01:37:56.640 a potential civil conflict. Yeah. With the, I mean, Steve Bannon ordered a prison the other day,

01:38:01.860 Donald Trump being found guilty in a New York heavily Democrat court, and all the civil cases

01:38:09.880 against him, Georgia, which has been frozen. And so for all the people who may watch this and are

01:38:14.780 actually cheering for these convictions, my point is not on the surface, whether you agree or disagree

01:38:19.980 with Trump. The point is, there is a conflict brewing. Democrats and Democrat jurisdictions

01:38:25.500 are trying, I shouldn't say trying, but are literally imprisoning their political rivals.

01:38:30.040 If this kind of bifurcation continues...

01:38:33.880 Look, I'm very concerned about it. I live in Montana for a reason. I want to be far away,

01:38:38.520 I mean, A, just far away from the Borg, and B, I certainly want to be far away from Democratic

01:38:43.720 jurisdiction power. And I am concerned that the left is sleepwalking into these incredibly

01:38:50.780 provocative stuff. It's just like Biden saying, ah, we're going to go have our missiles go hit

01:38:55.620 Ukraine, Russia now from Ukraine. That's not a big deal. And...

01:38:59.740 Yeah, there are rockets. We trained people to use them. We told them where to fire them. And then

01:39:03.760 we asked them to press the button, but it wasn't us.

01:39:05.460 Right. I mean, it's like, actually, that sounds like an escalation. Maybe we should have a debate about

01:39:09.300 whether that's the thing we want to do. So I am very concerned. I read about it in the book,

01:39:13.800 my concern that I think that nobody should be wishing for any type of civil conflict. Because

01:39:19.640 even if you think, bro, we're going to crush them, like, no, you know, anybody who's actually been

01:39:24.500 through a civil war will tell you that, or anything like that, that it is nothing that we should be

01:39:30.140 wanting to touch in the US. And I'm really concerned that the left is leading us in that direction with

01:39:35.300 some of the things they're doing, not just limited to race, but as you point out, the things with going on

01:39:39.180 with Bannon and Trump and the whole bit. Yeah, I think the whole red state, blue state thing that

01:39:43.460 you hear people talk about, and this idea that we're going to have kind of two Americas, the more

01:39:48.460 we embed those things into the fabric of our country, the bigger problem we're going to have.

01:39:53.240 I mean, it's not healthy long-term for the country to do that. And it's happening in the, you know,

01:39:57.740 there's talk of that in business as well. We need red companies, blue companies. I mean,

01:40:03.180 I don't think that's going to serve us well across the board. I think there's a need for

01:40:07.380 alternative technologies and startups and disruption in the marketplace for actors who are

01:40:11.660 doing the wrong thing, like banks and social media companies that are de-platforming and

01:40:15.460 debanking people. But if the end result that people want is, well, we need our own set of services for

01:40:20.840 people who are red state and then the blue folks, the blue get their own other set of services, I think

01:40:27.200 that that is going to create kind of fault lines that we're going to have to reckon with.

01:40:33.340 Well, there's no choice. There's no choice. You've got banks that will ban you for your speech.

01:40:40.580 Yeah. There is a choice though. I mean, we passed legislation in Tennessee that bans debanking

01:40:45.060 based on, through the help of the legislature there and other allies, that bans discrimination

01:40:50.980 based on religion, based on politics, based on involvement in ESG, you know, disfavored industries.

01:40:57.300 I mean, we're trying to reestablish through law, the principle of non-discrimination in financial

01:41:02.120 services. You can't stop a yogurt shop from putting up a bunch of pride flags. And so you

01:41:08.220 bring your child into the yogurt shop and there is a drag queen thrusting their genitals in the face

01:41:13.040 of children. And then you say, time to pass another law, I guess, but it doesn't stop. Or you say,

01:41:19.900 we only want to go get frozen yogurt from a place that actually upholds our values. So, you know,

01:41:26.420 I look at what public square is doing and I think it's tremendous and extremely important

01:41:29.280 because right now what you have is, I mean, big team like Disney, like the, the, the big cultural

01:41:37.620 forces, though they may be dying because they're insane. Right. You're not going to mandate by law

01:41:42.960 Disney stop creating content that indoctrinates children towards a crackpot communist ideology

01:41:49.580 because it's free speech. But then all of the major institutions are pushing this message through

01:41:54.340 their free speech, which we agree with. The only alternative is to create a separate industry

01:41:59.280 that pushes back on that. There's, I think it's an important strategy. I think that's, you know,

01:42:04.560 to, to, but I do think we can redeem some of the existing institutions. I don't know if that's true

01:42:08.360 of Disney. It seemed pretty far gone. Well, actually, but JPMorgan Chase, like we, you know, we've been

01:42:12.740 pushing on JPMorgan Chase for the last three years. They're starting to crack. They're starting to do the

01:42:16.820 right thing. They're eliminating bad policies. They'll lead to debanking. They're affirmatively putting out in

01:42:20.740 their policy statements that they, well, not their policy statements yet. That's our ask now,

01:42:23.980 but in some of their reports and different things, this commitment that they don't debank people for

01:42:28.160 political, social, or religious views. Like, I, I don't think we, as I don't think it's right for us

01:42:35.120 or good for us to just say those institutions are dead to us and we're going to abandon them.

01:42:40.480 And so, you know, I think there is a redemptive work that can happen and some are going to opt into it

01:42:45.960 and say, yeah, we see it. And I think the public square efforts help that because they see,

01:42:50.160 well, there's this vibrant community of people who want something different. And it's in our best

01:42:54.360 interest, JPMorgan Chase or otherwise, to serve everybody and get rid of a lot of these things

01:42:59.460 that are telling people and sending signals that they're not going to serve everybody.

01:43:02.560 Yeah. I think there's an interesting cleavage here a little bit between maybe how you and I

01:43:06.440 are, uh, feel about kind of the institutions in the system. And I think you're maybe a little more

01:43:11.020 feeling like they can be redeemed. And I actually think it's, it's, even though I'm more skeptical,

01:43:14.660 I think it's super important, the sort of work that you guys are doing,

01:43:17.380 because you will push some of them and some of them who didn't really want to be doing the bad

01:43:21.320 thing, we will get back to the center. And that's really, really valuable. But I think a lot of

01:43:26.260 them are beyond redemption and the sort of yogurt thing that you like site. It's like, yeah, I mean,

01:43:31.020 I want to go to my own yogurt company. I want to go to my own coffee company because I don't

01:43:34.940 necessarily think I'm going to convince, you know, X or Y to be non-woke.

01:43:38.680 Yeah. A Bud Light's a great example. When the Bud Light fiasco happened, I, I, I predicted it. I

01:43:44.340 said, you get the Dylan Mulvaney promotional thing where Dylan's got all the beer. The media lied and

01:43:50.060 they were like, it was one promotional can for Dylan Mulvaney. Why are they mad? No, it was Dylan

01:43:53.800 Mulvaney did a promo for March Madness or something like that, selling Bud Light to children. And so I

01:43:59.640 said, I bet this is a millennial woman who recently got promoted. She's, you know, in her thirties

01:44:05.660 and she said, we're going to shake things up and we're going to do, and that's exactly what

01:44:09.040 happened. It then came out like a month later, millennial woman took over the marketing department

01:44:14.420 and said, we adopt our ideology for marketing and it tanked the company and they've not recovered.

01:44:21.640 Yeah. And, and, and this is an interesting thing by the way, and you probably appreciate this

01:44:25.120 because of the world that you're in, but I have talked to people who are very sophisticated people

01:44:30.380 who have worked at the very, very top end of media companies, both on the right end and in the

01:44:35.040 center. And they have said, actually the biggest villains who we're not going after are the kind

01:44:41.200 of like woke millennial woman in the ad buying department. Who's like, Oh, you know, Tim cast

01:44:46.560 they're like doing stuff that's a little too edgy and there's no actual basis to say empirically

01:44:53.120 like that there's not a good audience for that, that they wouldn't buy products, that it's actually

01:44:57.380 freaking out so many people that it will alienate them from their brand. There's no actual empirical

01:45:01.720 basis they have for making these decisions, but they personally find it icky. These are

01:45:05.660 the random like millennial woman. And so they shut down our ability to bring in ad dollars.

01:45:10.980 We call them awful.

01:45:12.360 Yes.

01:45:12.960 Affluent white female liberals.

01:45:14.720 Yes. But I think that the concern that I have is the changes that we're seeing are not because

01:45:21.300 one day a corporation said, look at the law. The changes are not happening because the marketing

01:45:27.120 departments, the legal departments, the HR departments all had some revelation and they went,

01:45:32.320 heavens me, wokeness is the right choice. It's what's happening is that millennials are already

01:45:38.100 living in the worldview of wokeness and that world will not be changed to people who are now entering

01:45:43.620 middle age. That worldview is solidified. That is the world to them. They are now taking over the

01:45:49.120 corporations and gaining more corporate political and legal power. Yeah. So my view of this is

01:45:55.160 fighting to, uh, referencing Wade Stotts' video again about writing things down,

01:45:59.420 fighting to win court battles on this doesn't change the fact that the law is immaterial to

01:46:05.180 the culture. Sure. If it's on the books often is enforced, but there are so many laws that never

01:46:11.700 get enforced. It'll never happen. Uh, like, uh, for instance, in West Virginia, drag shows featuring

01:46:17.060 children are felonies explicitly look up, look up the law. It doesn't literally say if you do

01:46:22.820 dragon, it says public looting, lascivious behavior, behavior of a sexual nature is a crime in the

01:46:28.540 presence of children. It is upgraded. There's no enforcement of it, none whatsoever. You might

01:46:33.520 win all these legal battles, but when millennials are in their fifties, Gen Xers are retired. Gen Z is,

01:46:40.640 is, is relatively comparable to millennial bifurcated for sure. You are just going to see

01:46:47.040 all of these things tenfold. It's, it's, it's because it is the, it is the, it is the cultural

01:46:53.280 body of the people, not what is written down that dictates what people will tolerate and accept.

01:46:58.460 I just don't think it's that monolithic. I mean, I, I, I agree. We have a huge problem because

01:47:02.900 the education system is instilling this in a lot of people who are coming into the corporations and

01:47:08.260 the, and the, and, and, you know, and the, and the colleges are, you know,

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01:48:08.780 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

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01:48:35.780 Did I mention that we care?

01:48:37.080 Creating a bunch of activists who are now becoming marketing directors and things like that.

01:48:44.340 But it's so contrary to common sense. And there are a lot of people we know from polling that there's

01:48:49.180 still tons of people who reject most of the propositions.

01:48:53.000 How old are they?

01:48:53.340 I don't know. But I still think, well, I'll just say, I think that what's going on in corporations

01:49:01.320 is the Bud Light example. What happened with Target? What happened to Disney? They're losing

01:49:07.200 billions of dollars in value. Those aren't one-off things that aren't leaving a mark. The corporations

01:49:12.120 that we talk to and we meet with C-suite members, when we do our shareholder proposals, they show up

01:49:18.400 and talk to our shareholders and talk to us. I sometimes lead those negotiations. Some of those

01:49:22.780 corporations are saying, we agree with what you're saying. We want to figure out how to work

01:49:28.440 collaboratively, move back to political neutrality.

01:49:31.360 Who is saying it? And how old are they?

01:49:32.740 Well, they're not 60, 70-year-old gray hairs.

01:49:35.700 40s and 50s?

01:49:36.560 Sure, probably.

01:49:37.160 So what happens when a 30-year-old millennial who is either overly woke or anti-woke comes in?

01:49:42.740 Now, it's entirely possible those who are anti-woke and believe more in meritocracy are the

01:49:46.880 ones who start to inherit these positions. But that's not actually what's happening right now.

01:49:51.100 So we'll pull up this tweet here. This is End Wokeness. Let me play this clip for you.

01:49:55.860 When people watch The Hate U Give, what do you want them to walk away with? Because I know

01:49:58.740 everyone has a slightly different feeling.

01:50:01.260 Well, I mean, white people crying actually was the goal.

01:50:10.980 So this is, you know, causing a bunch of issues. This was a different show. This was The Hate U Give.

01:50:15.900 And she says, making white people cry was the goal. They also say that the actress and the show

01:50:23.220 writer for Star Wars say it's the gayest ever. Millennial woke people are taking over.

01:50:29.160 Jen, so when you look, this is fascinating. When polled, there is a, it's about 50,

01:50:35.340 slightly more than 50% of the United States believe a civil war is coming.

01:50:37.860 But that doesn't matter. That poll doesn't matter. What matters is people over the age of 65,

01:50:44.040 it's like 9% think a civil war is coming. People between the ages of, you know, 50 to 69,

01:50:50.120 20%. These aren't the exact numbers. As you get younger and younger, the belief that a civil war

01:50:55.660 is coming grows exponentially to where you get to millennials and it's like 46% of millennials think

01:51:00.580 a civil war is coming. And it's because you go back to the nineties and you look at political

01:51:05.880 affiliation and policy, Democrats and Republicans overlapped almost completely according to Pew

01:51:11.520 research. They believed almost the exact same things, but there were a few minor issues that

01:51:16.800 were wedge issues that would be used. Tax should be a little higher or lower or abortion should be

01:51:21.140 easier or harder. Now it's total abortion at any point, even after birth, in some circumstances,

01:51:27.820 the baby can be terminated. This has literally happened with Northam in Virginia. And then you

01:51:32.420 have on the right total bans of abortion. There's no overlapping ideologies anymore.

01:51:37.500 I believe that when, so the silent generation and the baby boomers are retiring. They're all starting

01:51:45.000 to leave industry. Gen Xers are now inheriting the crowns and the thrones of the biggest companies.

01:51:52.480 Millennials are now taking the mid-management positions that actually run the day-to-day operations.

01:51:56.160 When millennials take over the top of these corporations and government, the bifurcation will

01:52:02.380 be tremendous. And in court, it's going to be absolutely balls to the walls, nuts. Imagine that

01:52:11.320 woman. Uh, what was, what was the woman's name from Bud Light? I can't remember her name.

01:52:16.240 What do you remember? It was, I'll look at it in a second. Imagine she's on a judge. She's a judge.

01:52:19.940 She's going to sit there and say, I mean, a better example is Ketanji Brown Jackson. She doesn't know

01:52:25.540 what the word woman means. You cannot function as a society if you cannot define woman. Now we say,

01:52:34.060 oh, but most people can. Yeah, but you're talking about the older generation. And I don't necessarily

01:52:38.960 agree that colleges are, I think colleges are both a cause of, it's, it's, it's, it's correlation and

01:52:46.460 causation at the same time. Colleges are not making activists, making woke activists necessarily.

01:52:52.780 They are bolstering it. Social media likely was the driving component of this psychotic ideology.

01:53:00.040 We saw this in the end of the two thousands when every country in the world saw a massive uptick

01:53:05.700 in the same use of terminology in the same words. And it was likely because Facebook, Twitter,

01:53:11.680 and YouTube prioritized algorithmically, accidentally certain words to generate more

01:53:16.440 traffic to keep people on their platform. So a kid who was born in 1998 is, you know, 10 in 2008,

01:53:24.180 they get their first Facebook profile. What do they see? Nothing but police brutality. Why? Police

01:53:29.540 brutality made money. So there, there was a website that was the top in the top 400 websites in the

01:53:35.560 world that only showed videos of cops beating black people. And the people running the website

01:53:40.540 were making millions of dollars. Facebook didn't do this on purpose. Facebook just told the algorithm

01:53:47.240 promote what people click on. Well, racial justice generated a lot of attention. Simultaneously,

01:53:53.780 something else happened. The rise of the alt-right. When you have this endless attack on white people

01:53:59.320 because of these videos that are going viral, you got an equal and opposite reaction. The rise of

01:54:03.680 white identitarianism also started to explode, go viral and a bunch of white nationalists and white

01:54:09.700 identitarians, not necessarily nationalists, started making a bunch of money. Well, that was offensive

01:54:13.900 to the sensibilities of most Americans, be it silent boomer, Gen X, millennial or otherwise. So they all

01:54:19.720 got banned instantly. What was left was leftist anti-white identitarianism still to make all of its

01:54:27.280 money. And this is the culture war. These kids grow up being slammed by nothing but wokeness on social

01:54:35.500 media because these companies were making money, enter college, and you see professors try to push

01:54:40.420 back. Famously, Nick Christakis, I think this was, I don't know, where's it, but Princeton, Yale, and

01:54:46.180 right. Yeah. And they did that. He said, Hey, wear whatever costume you want. The students yelled

01:54:51.460 at him and said, this is not about education. It's about a safe family community or something like

01:54:56.300 this. Those kids didn't learn that at college. They learned it before college. They're, they're

01:55:01.560 transforming the colleges because they're the customers for the college and the colleges just

01:55:05.180 want to keep their customer base happy. Once millennials are the CEOs, their worldview is not

01:55:11.340 going to change. So all of these, all this precedent, all this law is in my opinion, mostly

01:55:15.780 meaningless. It is a culture that you have to win and we have to absolutely crush and shut out woke

01:55:22.260 culture. This means either we infiltrate, destroy, and rebuild the likes of Disney and the Washington

01:55:29.040 Post and Bud Light, or we build alternatives that grow faster and become stronger and more resilient.

01:55:36.000 If Bud Light wants to blow itself up and go out of business, then we need say conservative dads,

01:55:41.200 ultra right. And they're expanding rapidly. They're launching new stuff. Maybe that's the

01:55:45.880 answer. Either way, it can be, it can be a two front battle where we try and get people to go into

01:55:50.600 Bud Light, take it over your lawsuits, forcing these corporate corporations to realign. And then the woke

01:55:55.300 millennials that are in these companies have no choice but to bend the knee. But if, if we just sit

01:56:03.360 back and say, the only thing we're going to do is try and win the lawsuits because it's illegal, we can

01:56:07.900 already see they're abusing the law and doing whatever they want. I imagine in 30 years,

01:56:12.680 it's not, it's not cut and dry. It's not 100%. But that's why I think civil conflict, because you

01:56:18.640 are not going to have a country where one state says we can kidnap your children and castrate them,

01:56:24.420 which is literally what they've done already. I believe it's Washington has stated, if a child is

01:56:29.560 taken by force without the parent's permission from any other state and brought to Washington

01:56:33.100 for a sex change, the state will not intervene in law enforcement operations to reunite the child

01:56:38.680 with the parents. Sooner or later, someone's kid gets kidnapped by a pedophile off TikTok,

01:56:44.600 ends up in Washington for a castration, and some dad's going to get a posse. And then you've got a

01:56:49.500 nightmare scenario on your hand. Yeah. So I don't know how law can rectify these, this extreme

01:56:54.900 cultural difference. Yeah. And it is generational. And again, it's like when I, when I talk to older

01:56:59.540 people about my book, they're like, Oh my God, you know, like, how could you even be so brave as,

01:57:03.480 as to write this? And then it's kind of like, my generation is like, wow, this is really needed.

01:57:07.320 I'm glad you did it as, as kind of brave. And then, you know, I finally get down to some of

01:57:10.940 these Gen Z guys who I'm mentoring and they're like, you know, cool book, bro. Next time go even

01:57:15.720 a little bit harder. Right. It's like, it's just, um, it's a huge generation gap. And I think we are

01:57:22.820 just beginning to see the leading edge of what that's going to look like when those groups are running

01:57:27.760 our institutions, because obviously the, the folks who I'm talking to are, are the minority who are

01:57:33.200 in, you know, our camp on these, but they are reacting to the crazy wokesters who have, and the

01:57:38.600 anti-white racists who've completely taken over, um, in, in their generation. I do think, I do think

01:57:44.100 we're on the winning side. Like, well, I mean, I mean, probabilistically, I do think we are trending

01:57:48.580 towards winning and shutting this stuff down. And hopefully we go back to a more classically liberal,

01:57:53.580 just don't discriminate against people, leave everybody alone. But I don't know.

01:57:58.820 I mean, I don't think there's any single solution to it all. I think you're right about that.

01:58:01.860 You're not going to win this solely through the law. I think the law is an essential tool in the

01:58:05.860 toolkit, one that we use all the time to change the behavior of governments and even, you know,

01:58:11.760 companies that, um, you know, get crosswise with the law. Um, but I do think it's, it's kind of a

01:58:16.840 multi-vector, multiple discipline approach to trying to solve these problems. But I, I do think that,

01:58:22.920 you know, we should have hope. I do think we're on the winning side. If you even look at pride

01:58:27.220 month, like pull it back down to what's going on right now with pride month, the Texas Rangers

01:58:31.520 aren't even celebrating it. 11, you know, uh, NFL teams didn't even put out statements celebrating

01:58:36.880 pride month. So I view these things, not as kind of like on some, you know, arc of inevitability.

01:58:42.720 Um, I view them, this is the societal issues is largely on a pendulum swing and what's going on in

01:58:48.660 corporate America from kind of like my, it's not an insider seat, but we're dealing with a lot of

01:58:53.080 the big corporations. We're scoring them on an index that the rates them on their respect for

01:58:57.960 free speech and religious freedom on their political neutrality, other services they offer.

01:59:02.380 I'm seeing them pay attention in, in, in, in, in struggling with how do we deal with these

01:59:08.680 cultural moments that are going on? It's no longer, well, the Bud Light thing was just a one-off or,

01:59:12.940 you know, the, the, the grassroots, um, customer, you know, response to that backlash that it was

01:59:20.020 survivable and just a blip. No, it led to over a billion dollars in the loss of the value of their

01:59:24.840 company. And Bud Light's not the only one that's seeing that and recognizing and understanding that's

01:59:29.260 a problem. So a lot of these things kind of come together and there's, there's a lawsuit against

01:59:33.280 Target, uh, a shareholder derivative lawsuit that's saying, you know, you knew that if you sold

01:59:38.220 these ridiculous, you know, uh, um, you know, swimsuit gear in your store, that it would actually

01:59:43.560 alienate and undermine your value to us as shareholders. Um, so the law plays a role in

01:59:49.460 all that. I think, you know, in the end, a lot of these things come together to kind of push things

01:59:53.440 back to what I think, you know, I hope you're right, Tim is more of a classical liberal approach

01:59:57.720 to organizing society. You're right with respect to things like gender ideology, but I'm concerned

02:00:01.140 it's not going to work anywhere near like that for race. And because it's a different America.

02:00:04.760 So the silence, you know, there are 85% white, I'm making that up, but it's roughly correct.

02:00:09.140 Um, the under 18s are minority white and going down. And so you're, you're pitching to a different

02:00:17.600 America at that point. And the sorts of things that are going to be acceptable as regards race,

02:00:22.680 um, among the younger generation will in most cases, in my view, correctly appall older generations,

02:00:29.900 um, of, of what that's going to look like. So yeah, I'm seeing Tim, you're, you know,

02:00:35.520 yeah, you know what I think, I think there's a very, very strong possibility that in,

02:00:40.500 I don't know, say 35 years, there's a whole lot of elderly, single women with a lot of cats

02:00:49.580 and no means to support themselves.

02:00:51.940 If we go in the direction of meritocracy, family, traditional values, and morality,

02:00:59.560 I think they'll probably just starve to death. The, the idea that you, you go back in time,

02:01:09.760 how does, how does, how does, how does survival work, right? But pre-social security and all these

02:01:13.720 things. People have kids, their kids have kids, those people are older and their families help

02:01:21.460 take care of them into their old age and they die. Then we moved into this modern industrialized era

02:01:26.700 and we, we ended up with social security. Now in general, young people pay taxes to pay a small

02:01:35.040 amount of money to old people to support them. If we move away from these, these ideas, social security

02:01:41.380 is going to be insolvent by 2037, they're predicting. They always move the timeline back because they're

02:01:45.640 always printing money or engaging in some kind of weird Ponzi scheme to keep it afloat. But they're

02:01:50.520 saying that within, we're looking at nine years, is when we start to see the instability in social

02:01:57.940 security. Older people are going to be unable to start receiving their benefits. Bad things are going to

02:02:03.100 start happening. Four, four years after that, they expect it based on the current timeline, there will be

02:02:08.160 none. If we move in the direction of, for a variety of reasons, uh, conservatives are more likely to

02:02:14.020 have kids. So conservatives are going to be less dependent upon this system. They're also going to

02:02:18.340 be more likely to have a controlling voting block moving forward, especially now, because it was,

02:02:23.420 it was bad in the, in the two thousands liberal for every, uh, every four kids. Uh, I think every four

02:02:29.680 kids born, uh, three of them were, were conservative. And now we're starting to see in the research on young,

02:02:36.280 the next generation, Gen Z. Gen Z is comparable to millennials in politics, but they tick slightly

02:02:42.360 rightward on some issues. The first time in a hundred years, we've seen a generational shift

02:02:46.220 toward the right in any way. It's likely going to be because of just child rearing fertility,

02:02:52.060 even though conservatives are down below replacement, liberals are way worse. You give it

02:02:58.180 20 to 40 years, you are going to have more likely the cultural makeup of this country is going to be

02:03:02.780 leaning conservative traditionalist and probably Christian. Yeah. You're going to see a lack of

02:03:08.640 support for things like social security and the welfare state. And this will result in a small

02:03:15.380 pocket of millennial women who are childless, single, owning lots of cats like Chelsea Handler.

02:03:20.380 And they're going, she's well, she's a millionaire. So she'll be fine for the rest of her life.

02:03:24.560 Uh, I'm assuming she's a millionaire. She's probably well off. She's a wealthy personality,

02:03:28.000 but it's gonna be a lot of women like her who bragged about in their thirties, how they wake up,

02:03:32.940 do drugs, you know, diddle themselves as she described it, and then go to bed and then wake

02:03:38.540 up again later to do drugs again. Yeah. When they're 70, they're going to say, I'm not making

02:03:43.320 any money anymore and I can't work because I'm too old. I need money from the state, but they will be

02:03:48.840 such a weak voting block that everyone's going to say no. And then what ends up happening?

02:03:53.840 They're going to be institutionalized. They get, we bring back mental institutions or whatever.

02:03:59.300 And we say, sure, we can't have you living and crapping in the street. So you're going to go

02:04:04.080 live in a box in a building that we pay the bare minimum for. It's sobering. Certainly you see

02:04:10.140 dramatic in the last 15 years, differential fertility between secular white women and religious

02:04:16.940 Christian women. And that wasn't actually always the case, um, particularly by politics. Like it's,

02:04:22.540 it's a more recent development. Um, you know, I'm a white Christian with five kids. So I got

02:04:26.640 done with that, but, uh, yeah, you're, you're, you're fine. I'm good. Yeah. I think, I think

02:04:31.220 about that. I like, I mean, I, you do look and you're like, eh, is all the social security

02:04:34.700 I pay going to be here for me? And I'm like, eh, you know, like all dear kids, my oldest

02:04:38.800 is 17. My youngest is eight. So you're my gap too. I have five as well. 17 to seven.

02:04:43.820 And, and, and, and, oh, okay. So, so you guys are only a few years away from being

02:04:46.780 grandparents. Yeah. And then when you're old and struggling with a cane, there's gonna

02:04:52.180 be a bunch of grad kids running around asking grandpa to tell stories. And then, uh, there

02:04:56.340 will come a time in your life when you are lying on a medical bed and you're going to

02:05:00.600 have a hard time breathing and you're going to be surrounded by your children and your

02:05:03.600 grandchildren crying, holding your hand, saying they love you and they appreciate everything

02:05:07.160 you've done for them. And no one will ever forget you. And their grandkids will, will hear

02:05:12.340 the stories and then you'll die. And that will be the way to go, I suppose. And there

02:05:18.000 will be many of these women like Chelsea Handler who will be in a sterile hospital bed surrounded

02:05:22.120 by no one. The doctor will walk in, sign the chart, stick it on the bed, walk out, and they'll

02:05:27.000 be sitting there staring at a cold dead wall. That is something I hope they're prepared for.

02:05:32.360 But this is the world they choose to live in. Maybe, maybe at that point they'll plug their

02:05:36.300 brains into Neuralink to, and to, to overstimulate the dopamine so that they, they, or at that

02:05:42.320 point, you know, cause I got, I'll be as dark as I can with it. Of course, they're pushing

02:05:48.320 medical assistance and death. You had, I think it was like a 19 year old healthy girl, healthy

02:05:53.740 woman was put to death recently because she was sad. However, I don't see medical assistance

02:06:00.740 and dying being allowed to expand. If trends in the culture war and fertility continue within

02:06:09.480 20 to 40 years, this simple math predicts a more conservative worldview that will not

02:06:14.900 allow medical assistance and dying. Should it, a lot of these women like Chelsea Handler

02:06:20.940 will just choose to go to the doctor and say, I'm done with life and me. But assuming the

02:06:26.800 current trends we're seeing, conservatives won't allow that. And so they will just sit

02:06:31.480 in a chair, staring at the wall, crying lonely and said, well, that's sort of a, that is pretty

02:06:37.540 dark. Let's, uh, it's not that, uh, that bad, but yeah, I mean, certainly, I mean, I just

02:06:42.560 think hope doesn't really matter in the, in the, in the, as a, as a factor of what is going

02:06:47.220 to happen. And I think it is going to happen. Whatever the governmental system may be, the

02:06:52.360 reality is there are many single childless women that have emerged due to the expansion

02:06:56.520 of woke ideology. Yeah. There's the, um, famous magazine cover of the woman who said, I froze my

02:07:01.520 eggs and it's like, freeze your eggs, be a boss. Right. And then several years later, her eggs all

02:07:06.180 shattered and were unviable. And she said, she screamed like a wild animal realizing she could

02:07:09.780 ever be a mother. Yeah. Well, and it's interesting because on these issues for particularly for race,

02:07:15.900 you really see a dramatic difference both formally and informally between folks who have kids and

02:07:22.920 folks who don't. I mean, I dedicated my book to my kids for a reason because it's sort of like,

02:07:26.300 okay, I've navigated my way through this. It hasn't always been perfect, but, but at least

02:07:30.420 when I was young, it wasn't as bad. Um, but I'm looking, you know, it's very easy for particularly

02:07:35.660 white liberals who are older, if they don't have kids to just kind of pose with whatever

02:07:39.540 is fashionable, uh, view on race, whatever they think is good. Cause there's no real stakes

02:07:43.200 for them anymore or nothing they can't navigate. I'm looking at like, well, what are the opportunities

02:07:47.200 my kids are going to have? Um, that's like what motivated me to write this book at the end of

02:07:52.380 the day is like, what, you know, it's not an abstract intellectual question for me.

02:07:56.500 I think the fact that you wrote the book is indicative of, uh, a trend towards victory.

02:08:02.660 I hope so.

02:08:03.760 It's just, you know, the night is always the darkest before the dawn and, uh, every generation

02:08:08.260 has their, you know, their great conflict of some sort or some cultural battle.

02:08:11.680 So, and, uh, hopefully it's not world war three.

02:08:14.680 Yeah.

02:08:15.480 Hopefully it's just us complaining about what's on TV, you know, debanking is bad, but I gotta

02:08:22.180 be honest in terms, if I had to choose between two fights and one was I'm being sued over

02:08:27.780 a cake or I'm being shot at by Germans, I'd choose the cake. So shout out to all the D-Day

02:08:32.820 veterans and all the heroes and the, and the, and the veterans in general. But, uh, I gotta

02:08:37.920 say our, our, our battle certainly isn't the most difficult ever fought by any generation,

02:08:41.180 but we just, we have to win either way.

02:08:43.620 Yeah.

02:08:44.140 Agreed.

02:08:44.860 Yeah. Do you guys see any, any, any, any, uh, uh, is there anything on the horizon positively

02:08:50.520 any cases you're working on or anything you've seen that is indicative of a, uh, a good way

02:08:55.440 to end this rather bleak?

02:08:56.780 Well, well for me, actually, it's just what you said is that, um, even two years ago when

02:09:02.520 I started to write this book, I sort of sometimes felt like, wow, you know, I'm on this narrow

02:09:06.760 tightrope and there's alligators stamping at me. And now, you know, I'm going on Tucker,

02:09:12.080 I'm going on Charlie Kirk, I'm here on Tim Cass. Like I'm talking about this book, major

02:09:15.920 folks like you with really big audiences have said, Hey, this isn't a legitimate issue.

02:09:20.420 We can talk about it. It's really important that we talk about it. And so I think even

02:09:24.080 just in the last couple of years, let alone in the decade plus, I've been writing seriously

02:09:27.700 about this, the environment for speech around this has gotten much freer. And the reception

02:09:33.400 of my book has been way better in the sales way better than I would have possibly imagined.

02:09:37.400 And I think that is all a great sign, uh, for, for optimism on this issue that maybe people

02:09:44.220 have kind of had enough.

02:09:45.740 I'll say one thing that's kind of funny is when Chet GPT first came out, it was a big

02:09:51.500 controversy because people would ask it to rank race based, uh, based IQ and race, and it

02:09:56.220 would refuse outright. And it wouldn't even want to, it wouldn't even tell you what the bell

02:10:01.660 curve was and these stories. Not that I think they're good or I'm just pointing out that

02:10:05.380 Chet GPT was outright. Like, no, you go on Chet GPT now and it has no problem just saying

02:10:10.000 all of these things. Now the issue I took with it, if there is a fact based on data that we

02:10:14.200 have in science, I don't care if you're offended by it, let's analyze it. And Chet GPT would

02:10:19.240 say no for moral reasons. It doesn't do that anymore. It still does lie. It still has problems,

02:10:24.300 but Chet GPT is much more willing now to actually present existing data to you, regardless

02:10:28.740 of whether it offends somebody like crime statistics and things like that.

02:10:31.840 That's good. I'll stay in my legal lane to answer your question and just say,

02:10:34.180 there's two cases. One just came down from the Supreme court last week at National Rifle

02:10:38.120 Association versus Vulo. That is a debanking case and a case involving insurance companies too.

02:10:44.560 And essentially that the, the, uh, New York department of finance had put pressure on banks

02:10:50.000 and insurance companies to deprive an array of services because of their second amendment

02:10:55.620 advocacy, um, and of other gun groups too. And so, um, the, the, the NRA had one at the

02:11:01.040 lowest core loss at the second court of court of appeals and ultimately won at least the right

02:11:06.120 to continue their case. But it was a really great case, unanimous decision from the Supreme

02:11:09.760 court saying, I mean, in essence, the key holding in the case is government officials can't censor

02:11:15.580 by proxy through private corporations and through the kind of reputational risk, uh, coercive power

02:11:21.160 they have when, when it comes to regulating industries like banks, um, and insurance

02:11:25.580 companies, that's a big win. It's a, it's a flag. I think, um, you know, that we can plant to try to

02:11:31.720 protect people's first amendment rights from government regulators who try to abuse their

02:11:36.380 power and use banking regulations to shut people out of the marketplace because of their

02:11:40.620 constitutionally protected activity. And then in just a couple of weeks, I think we need to all

02:11:44.520 be watching what happens in Murphy versus Biden. That's the social media censorship case.

02:11:48.760 Which one is that? Where's that based out of that's came out of Texas. Okay.

02:11:53.440 Decided by the fifth circuit, the right way is ultimately coming up to, um, to, to, for a decision

02:11:59.020 by the Supreme court by the end of this term. So by the end of June, we'll have a decision in the

02:12:03.740 Murphy case. And that case is about the Biden administration using their coercive power to

02:12:08.380 shut down speech on COVID, on COVID vaccines, on masks, on the Hunter Biden laptop story and a host

02:12:13.560 of other issues too. And it's not just the feds who are doing that. States have, have popped up

02:12:18.340 their own kind of like election interference boards and they, they put pressure on Twitter

02:12:23.160 and these other companies to take down misinformation. So this is from our perspective,

02:12:27.480 kind of the free speech, um, problem of our age is the way that government is using these

02:12:33.160 concentrations of power in the private and the private sectors, especially related to the digital

02:12:38.180 public square and trying to censor speech they don't like. So really important to see how that

02:12:42.640 case comes out. I hope that Vulo came down in a way that is an indication that we might get a win

02:12:48.760 in the Murphy case too. Gentlemen, it's been absolutely fun and fantastic having this

02:12:52.760 conversation. Uh, do you want to just shout anything out before we wrap up? Yeah, go to

02:12:56.600 adflegal.org. That's our website. I love people to go there. We're a donor-based ministry.

02:13:01.460 So all the legal representation we provide to our clients is totally paid for by the people that

02:13:06.040 support us. Right on. Yeah. We've, we've, we've, uh, covered a couple of the suits that you guys

02:13:10.060 have been involved in. We're big fans of what you do. Uh, and Jeremy, would you like to show

02:13:13.040 anything out? Yeah. The Unprotected Class, How Anti-Weight Racism is Tearing America Apart.

02:13:16.960 Get it at your local bookstore, get it on Amazon. Um, again, just, uh, any support. By the way,

02:13:22.300 when you, when you buy it, it's not like anybody who knows anything about the book business,

02:13:25.420 you're not making me rich sadly, but what you are doing is you're sending a message to publishers

02:13:31.700 that, Hey, there's interest in this. This is a legitimate subject for a book to be about,

02:13:36.300 and we need to see more stuff like this. And so I think it, it kind of helps the entire

02:13:40.900 ecosystem. And then you can check me out on Twitter at Real Jeremy Carl, if you're interested

02:13:45.060 in following me there. If you sold a million of them, would you be rich? Yes. All right. There

02:13:49.900 we go. I'm doing well, but I'm not yet on that million trajectory. So I got to work on that.

02:13:54.280 Well, thank you both for hanging out. This has been a, it's been a blast. And for everybody who's

02:13:57.380 watching, subscribe to Tenet Media on YouTube. We've got, uh, every, every Friday at 10 a.m.

02:14:04.080 new episodes, more conversations and debates. We've got some interesting ones coming up. So

02:14:07.460 we appreciate it. If you would give us a subscribe, hit the like button. We're back tonight over at

02:14:11.620 youtube.com slash Timcast IRL for some topical news. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you all then.

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - June 07, 2024

The Culture War #67 Anti-White Racism On The Rise In The West, DEI & The Cult

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