The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #68 Leftist Libertarian Party Nominee REJECTED By 3 State Parties w⧸Caryn Ann Harlos, Mike Rectenwald, Jeremy Kauffman

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00:00:57.060 The third state, the Libertarian Party of New Hampshire, announced that they would be rejecting

00:01:02.640 Chase Oliver as their nominee. He's still going to be on the ballot, so we'll get into the nitty-gritty

00:01:07.840 details of what that means. But in the past couple of weeks, there's been a big controversy over the

00:01:12.640 Libertarian Party's chosen nominee because he's viewed as a leftist who supports many woke ideas

00:01:19.000 and ideologies. We invited Chase Oliver, the nominee, to be on this show this morning,

00:01:26.100 and we didn't get any word back from them for a couple of weeks.

00:01:30.040 And at the very last minute, my understanding is they declined to be here to discuss and debate

00:01:35.960 their ideas. So, look, this is the third biggest political party. And I think with the expansion,

00:01:43.120 the, how do I describe this, with the popularity of some of the more prominent Libertarian Party

00:01:49.220 members throughout the past couple of years, there was a real opportunity for the LP to hit some of

00:01:53.860 its highest polling and percentage numbers in this election than ever before, and now it will likely

00:01:58.580 be the lowest. Donald Trump showed up to speak to the Libertarian Party convention. He was booed,

00:02:03.840 he was sometimes cheered, but now many members of the LP are saying they are going to be voting for

00:02:08.820 Donald Trump because the nominee is so bad. So we're going to break this down, but we will get

00:02:13.460 into the finer points of what the Libertarian Party is usually about, what the individuals here think

00:02:19.060 about it, because certainly I think there's going to be some very serious disagreements with Donald

00:02:23.000 Trump, but then the fact that some people would be willing to vote for him over this guy, Chase

00:02:26.880 Oliver, is very interesting. And then many have said the true winner of the Libertarian Party

00:02:31.520 convention as nominee was Donald Trump, because even though he never filed the paperwork to actually

00:02:35.740 win the nomination, he's actually won over a large percentage of the Ron Paul Libertarian types. So

00:02:40.580 we've got a handful of people joining us today. You want to go first, Jeremy?

00:02:43.840 Sure. I'm Jeremy Kaufman from New Hampshire, which just rejected Chase Oliver. He is, there's something

00:02:51.240 about leftist psychology that seems to, some aspect of them get off on dressing up as something

00:02:57.920 that they're not, and pretending that they're something that they're not. And I think that's what's

00:03:01.320 going on here. I think that's why Chase Oliver isn't interested in sitting down. I don't think,

00:03:04.920 I think he is not a Libertarian. I think he is a liar. I think he is a subversive person who is,

00:03:10.220 who is enjoying the fact that he has pulled one over the Libertarian Party. And I do think that

00:03:15.500 leaves you no choice other than to vote for Trump. And I encourage our Libertarians to do that.

00:03:19.280 We've got Dr. Michael Reckenwald has returned.

00:03:21.940 Yes. So I'm the candidate who ran in a head-to-head with Chase Oliver. I won the first five rounds of

00:03:28.160 voting. And then I was betrayed by a kiss at the last minute. And this threw the election to

00:03:35.460 Chase Oliver. I think, you know, we would have had a massive, a massive campaign had I won. And

00:03:43.860 my, my campaign slogan is wreck the regime. And we were going to make waves. We were going to be

00:03:50.540 the most, I was going to be the most radical candidate for president in the history of the

00:03:56.120 country. And this is what we got instead. We got, we got leftism with Libertarian sprinkles on top.

00:04:04.060 And, uh, you know, so I'm here to talk about what happened and, uh, then let's go from there.

00:04:09.960 Right on. And Karen.

00:04:11.420 Yeah. I'm Karen Ann Harlow. So I'm the national secretary of the Libertarian Party. I'll be

00:04:16.180 going on my fourth term. And I think somehow here I've turned out to be the loyal opposition,

00:04:21.480 um, in counter to the last two speakers, but obviously have my own opinions. And we'd just

00:04:29.680 like to let your listeners know, don't let the pink hair fool you. The pink hair hat, the dye has

00:04:36.300 seeped in a little bit, but I am not a progressive woke barking moon bat.

00:04:41.420 All right. So, uh, voting for Trump then, how can you do it? You're a libertarian. I mean,

00:04:47.020 uh, so the famous photo, I guess of the moment was you holding up the sign saying MAGA equals

00:04:52.160 socialism. That's right. And now you're like, I'm voting for Trump. Well, sometimes you got to

00:04:55.540 vote for the least socialist candidate, right? I look, I'm not a, I'm not a hardcore Trump

00:04:59.320 supporter. I think a lot of MAGA supporters are an example of, of why democracy is a mistake.

00:05:05.040 I live in New Hampshire because I am so skeptical of, of anything good happening in the rest of the

00:05:10.840 country. I think libertarians need to bunker down. I think libertarians need to create a

00:05:14.540 homeland. I'm a free stater first and foremost. And that's what the libertarian party of New

00:05:19.080 Hampshire represents is we're free staters first and foremost. So we think everyone else is really

00:05:23.160 kind of playing a dumb game, but to the extent that, uh, we've got to participate in that Trump,

00:05:28.600 Trump's the choice. We're not going to back Oliver. You know, I'm going to go with Noda.

00:05:32.320 That is the, uh, 345 people, uh, delegates at the LP convention when it came to the seventh round

00:05:40.420 in which Chase Oliver ran against nobody. So what is Noda? No, none of the above.

00:05:47.880 I like it. Yeah. Second choice. Yeah, that's, that's my choice here. Basically the same vote

00:05:52.940 I cast, uh, in the seventh round of the, uh, uh, of the nomination process. But Karen,

00:05:58.620 you're going to be voting for Chase? Well, I don't know if I'll have the opportunity to do because I

00:06:02.520 live in Colorado and the Colorado libertarian party so far has stated that they will not be placing

00:06:08.280 Chase on the ballot. But he's on the ballot. You're going to vote for him if he's on the ballot.

00:06:11.740 I'm definitely going to vote for him because third party politics do not work the same

00:06:15.460 as duopoly politics. When you vote for third party politics, you are voting for the very existence of

00:06:21.000 the party. I always vote libertarian, libertarian down the line always. And I would encourage anyone

00:06:27.520 who believes that we need other voices in, I'm going to be realistic. And some LP people will hate me

00:06:33.640 for saying this. We are not going to win, but the fact is we might win for your children.

00:06:39.640 And if you destroy the party by not voting for our candidate, cause you don't like certain aspects,

00:06:45.920 there might not be a party next time to be there for your children. Third party politics are different.

00:06:53.360 You have to put aside any dislike that you might have for some policies of our current candidate.

00:06:59.460 So I am encouraging everyone to vote for our ticket, whether they like the ticket or not,

00:07:05.540 if they believe that there needs to be a libertarian party.

00:07:09.520 I forgot the matter. I mean, Phil's here too. I don't know.

00:07:12.000 Y'all know me. He's still the same OG. How you doing?

00:07:15.180 Yeah. I mean, look, what?

00:07:17.600 Look, the fact of the matter is, I mean, not that Carrie Ann, not that you're wrong.

00:07:20.700 And it's just that in, for me personally, I am like a Liberty guy first. So I live in New Hampshire.

00:07:27.840 Most of you guys know my, my house is in New Hampshire. I got a place down here.

00:07:31.800 And I moved to New Hampshire before I knew that there was a free state project. And I moved

00:07:36.680 specifically for the same reasons that the free state project was created. I moved from

00:07:41.060 Massachusetts to New Hampshire because I didn't like the laws in mass. And it wasn't a situation

00:07:44.660 where I felt like I was free. I felt like the state was starting to encroach. I was like, well,

00:07:48.040 I guess I got to up and move. I think the important thing, at least for me personally,

00:07:52.720 I can't speak for anyone else, but for me personally, the important thing is who is

00:07:56.120 going to do the most to advance liberty, right? I appreciate the libertarian party and I love

00:08:02.040 all you guys, but the party to me doesn't matter. Liberty matters, right? So if this time voting

00:08:07.520 for Donald Trump means that we're going to have a more or have a, a better likelihood of

00:08:13.340 libertarian policies, then I'm going to vote for Donald Trump because even though Chase

00:08:17.760 even say Chase would be a more libertarian candidate, he has no chance of, of winning.

00:08:23.440 So just like Carrie Ann said, if you're voting because you want to make sure that there's a

00:08:26.800 third party, more power to you. I'm not hating on the idea at all, but for me, the results are

00:08:32.780 what matter. So we got, we got to get libertarians running as Republicans though, right? You got Lily

00:08:37.400 Tang Williams, right here. Lily Tang Williams was from Colorado. She ran in the libertarian party

00:08:42.840 of Colorado. I'm not booing Lily, by the way. No one knew who she was. She moved to New Hampshire.

00:08:48.960 She's now a leading candidate for a congressional office under the Republican party. She has a huge

00:08:53.980 following. She goes on Tucker Carlson and this show all the time. We have a hundred libertarians

00:08:57.560 elected to the state house in New Hampshire. We have a dozen people who are as radical as Ron Paul

00:09:02.240 or more. No one knows who they are. And more people need to know who Travis Corcoran and Tom

00:09:06.020 Mannion and Keith Ammon are. I don't know if they don't know who they are. They can't stop

00:09:08.920 them. Right. And so maybe, maybe stay under the radar. Come to New Hampshire. We have people,

00:09:13.500 we got, we got at least like a dozen people, maybe as many as 50 people running as Democrats

00:09:17.900 this year. Yep. Well, we're free staters. Any way we can get it. We got people underwater.

00:09:23.120 We got people in the AG office. Now we got people in as cops. We've got people as running

00:09:30.120 local libraries. Take over like the woke. This is how the libertarians have got to do it.

00:09:33.940 Yeah. Listen, just quietly be pro-liberty. Go and live your life like a normal person

00:09:39.400 and then quietly be very pro-liberty. Well, a couple of people got to do the gay pride

00:09:44.080 thing like me. Sure. That's what I do. Look, the Libertarian Party is merely a vehicle to expand

00:09:51.360 liberty, to broaden the scope of liberty. And I agree with that. And I do think that it is necessary

00:09:56.300 to have an integral, principled party that is a lightning rod for liberty. So I do agree with

00:10:02.860 Karen Ann that we must keep the Libertarian Party alive. We must reset. We don't need to really

00:10:08.700 resuscitate it. There are a lot of things about what happened in the convention that were very

00:10:13.620 positive, actually. But on the other hand, I will say that the Libertarian Party is merely a means to

00:10:20.560 an end. It is not the end in itself. Okay. Listen, I'm going to interrupt here. So Jeremy, I know you're

00:10:26.480 all about New Hampshire and you all have your own. It's very unique there. Okay. So I'm speaking to

00:10:32.600 everyone who's not in New Hampshire, perhaps, because what you're doing in New Hampshire is a

00:10:37.120 bit different. So when you're talking infiltrate the Republicans and this and this, all I keep hearing

00:10:42.840 is I don't want any of those to exist. Like, I don't want any of those to exist at all. And all I see

00:10:48.240 from my perspective, while this might not be going on in New Hampshire, while you might be saying,

00:10:53.040 oh, we're getting pro-liberty candidates elected in New Hampshire under the Republican label,

00:10:57.860 all I see throughout the country is that the Republicans are bending the Libertarians over

00:11:03.620 the table without lube and screwing us out of ballot access. So I do not want to support even

00:11:10.760 a pro-liberty candidate in the Republican Party who are then tweeting in Texas that you guys have failed

00:11:17.700 at your role at kicking Libertarians off the ballot. I will never, ever support a Republican

00:11:24.100 for that reason, because their party is corrupt to the core. And I will not give a second of

00:11:31.340 attention to that party. I just want to pull this image real quick, if you could grab this one.

00:11:36.000 Everybody knows this image. It's a very, very old, it's an old meme, but it checks out

00:11:40.460 Libertarian Ideas and Libertarian Candidates. For those that are just listening,

00:11:44.040 you're not watching. Libertarian Ideas is this gorgeous silver fox with red on his face,

00:11:49.880 and Libertarian Candidates is this disgusting-looking, dirty, muppet-like thing.

00:11:55.760 Why is this meme funny?

00:11:58.360 It's funny because it's true.

00:12:00.380 I've been a candidate, so it's not always true.

00:12:03.020 But the reason that it's true is because of the system that we have. The people that are charismatic,

00:12:09.300 that are likely to make an impact, they're picked up long, by one of the two big power brokers,

00:12:16.180 whether it be Democrats or Republicans, they get picked up, and they're put into the machine.

00:12:21.220 Even if you're a pro-Liberty candidate or a Libertarian candidate, if you are very charismatic,

00:12:25.840 and you're making inroads with people, the Republicans or the Democrats are going to notice,

00:12:30.700 and they're going to say, hey, we can work with you on these things, and they're going to bring you

00:12:34.200 into the existing structure. And it's hard to break out.

00:12:36.700 It's actually really simple. People wonder why it is non-profits pay their executive directors

00:12:41.480 millions of dollars. If you're a non-profit, shouldn't your executive director be making

00:12:46.060 a small amount of money for the betterment of your cause? No. Because if you're a non-profit,

00:12:52.040 and you're expecting someone to work a CEO-level job, and they can go to a corporation that's going

00:12:57.020 to pay them $10 million a year, they're not going to come and work for your non-profit,

00:13:00.520 and you will get failed leadership. So what Phil is saying is basically,

00:13:03.660 the Libertarians aren't offering, and it's a political issue, they're not offering a path

00:13:09.760 towards success and expansion for their candidates the way the Democrats and the Republicans are.

00:13:15.160 Well, they can't. Libertarians are very delusional about why other people aren't

00:13:19.340 Libertarians. And the truthful answer here is people have to do it.

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00:14:19.020 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

00:14:26.260 Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

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00:14:46.260 Did I mention that we care?

00:14:49.020 I have different moral tastes and different moral preferences. So actually, I will disagree a little

00:14:54.340 bit with the left half of that image. There are people who sincerely understand libertarian ideas

00:14:59.200 and they hate them and they will never be persuaded of them. And so I think the idea that libertarian

00:15:03.880 ideas are great if only everyone could understand them. I actually think that's a bit of a cope from

00:15:07.600 libertarians. I think libertarians are a bit closer to gay men who want to persuade everyone that

00:15:12.560 having sex with men is great. And it's like some people are like, well, I tried it.

00:15:16.140 Kind of great. People are like, I tried it. You know, and I don't, I don't, you know, this is why

00:15:21.260 even libertarians, you can see that at times they're implicitly uncomfortable with acknowledging

00:15:25.440 the outcomes of some of their claims.

00:15:30.240 Well, so I'll give you an example. The one that really, I guess, got under the skin of Chase

00:15:35.280 Oliver supporters is that he is pro vaccine mandate. But what does that mean? So Chase Oliver has a

00:15:40.760 tweet where he said he opposes the government forcing people to get vaccinated, but he thinks

00:15:45.500 private businesses can do that. See, that's a vaccine mandate. It's just whether it's coming

00:15:50.320 from private power structures. This is important real quick. Most of the mandates that we saw during

00:15:55.980 the lockdown were private. It was large corporations with 5,000 locations and 100,000 employees. And

00:16:03.860 they're saying, you have to get vaccinated if you want to work here. It was private venues, music

00:16:09.240 venues, for instance, that were only owned by like two or three guys or whatever. And they said, if

00:16:13.980 your band wants a player, you have to be vaccinated. This created a chain link fence over the country.

00:16:19.980 I, I'm not a libertarian. And so I don't know what your guys' thoughts are, but this is why I think

00:16:24.500 the government should be able to restrict infringements of our liberties. Yeah, this is one of the things

00:16:28.960 that I ran on. In fact, and none of the other candidates ever addressed this. These, these

00:16:33.840 companies are not purely private enterprises. They're extensions of the state. And so they're

00:16:40.040 going to enforce the state narratives and things like that. This is why I talked about a regime rather

00:16:45.300 than just the government. There's more to the state than the government. It, it has appendages that it

00:16:51.400 uses to enforce its, its, uh, its laws, its rules, its mandates, and so forth. And that's why I said

00:16:58.320 that these, none of these other candidates had the slightest idea about what I was talking about.

00:17:02.960 They don't understand the nature of the beast.

00:17:06.860 The mandate thing is, is a very interesting thing because I do understand why Chase's supporters

00:17:11.980 are saying he wasn't government, you know, enforcing government mandates.

00:17:15.740 Real quick. I never said he was for government mandates.

00:17:18.340 I know you didn't. I said he was pro mandate and he is. I, and that's where I was trying to go

00:17:22.540 is I think there's this narrative in the libertarian party that we're, we need to do some coping with.

00:17:29.220 And that's allegedly that libertarianism is culturally neutral. And as I was saying out in the green room

00:17:36.660 in some kind of like sterile Petri dish, that is true. But in the real world, that's not true.

00:17:43.520 So when you start saying things like you're having a socially distanced Thanksgiving,

00:17:48.940 that's not culturally neutral. You are promoting some kind of cultural narrative

00:17:53.960 that then filters down into these allegedly capitalists, but they're not corporations that

00:17:59.820 then put in these mandates. So if you go in this roundabout way, I hear what you're saying,

00:18:06.080 but most libertarians will, will vary, I think, and I'm autistic by the way, so I have autistic

00:18:12.780 privilege, are very autistically focused on, oh, it just wasn't the government without realizing.

00:18:20.280 I call it narrow libertarianism. And I think it's a mistake. I think that, you know, the libertarian

00:18:25.660 party and libertarians have to understand what they're really dealing with.

00:18:29.300 You've got to maintain private property absolutism. So it gets, it gets very conditional in terms of

00:18:35.300 what you're talking about here. I think the real, I think actually Karen gets to the heart of it,

00:18:39.480 which is that the cultural issues are intertangled with the private property issues. And so you see

00:18:45.500 all of these people who are giving what feel like moral defenses of absolutely morally abhorrent

00:18:51.620 behavior, even if this behavior is at least sometimes consistent with private property rights.

00:18:56.560 And so what, what we really need to be rejecting is the moral approval that, that I think is where

00:19:03.020 we can universally agree that this is not okay. Real quick. And to shout out Ron Paul,

00:19:08.320 because I do like this idea when he was talking about abortion, he said it should not be illegal.

00:19:11.920 It should be unthinkable, but that means we have to win a culture war. That's right. But I also agree

00:19:16.820 that it's, that's true. Laws actually don't really matter. I mean, they literally don't break the law.

00:19:21.740 What I mean is someone could go out and break the law and a cop's going to say, yeah, we don't care.

00:19:25.580 This happens every single day. A guy in the street will hit another guy in the cops, but go home.

00:19:29.420 We're not dealing with this, even though it was literally breaking the law. And then you have

00:19:33.180 the inverse with Donald Trump, where they're going to find literally anything that can be

00:19:37.080 construed as breaking the law to go after him. What really matters is what a culture will tolerate.

00:19:41.260 Yeah. Well, once you get that culture is upstream of politics, you just need to take one more step

00:19:44.740 and recognize that biology is upstream of culture. And then I would use it the other way,

00:19:50.320 actually. I think culture determines politics more than politics determines culture.

00:19:53.540 Oh, okay. I'm sorry. Breitbart said politics is downstream from culture. You said culture

00:19:58.940 is upstream.

00:19:59.380 You know, I never heard Chase Oliver object to the fact that Medicaid actually funds transgender

00:20:07.780 reassignment surgery and chemical castration. So there was never any problem with that. So I think

00:20:17.260 there's a little statism here that's being hidden. That is, he's really not against the state when

00:20:23.460 it's protecting his particular special class groups that he wants to have privileges.

00:20:28.600 You know what I think? I think the problem is that the Libertarian Party for the most part

00:20:33.140 is a collective of people who haven't, who have a singular thing they want to do that's illegal.

00:20:39.500 And it's like, so there's a guy who's like, I just want to smoke pot. So he joins the Libertarian

00:20:45.380 Party. This other guy who's like, I want to print my own money. And then he joins the Libertarian

00:20:48.640 Party and they don't agree with each other.

00:20:50.060 Every single person's political preferences are just a way to raise the people that they like

00:20:54.600 in status and lower the people that they dislike in status. And this just explains every single

00:20:58.420 person's politics. So yeah, I'm a Libertarian because I'm like a hardcore right-wing radical

00:21:02.240 capitalist that wants like intense competition between corporations and like people to go to

00:21:06.500 the moon.

00:21:06.800 Oh God, you used the corporation word and you promised me right now.

00:21:10.020 We're not going to do that one.

00:21:11.980 I'm a Libertarian because I just want to be left alone.

00:21:13.640 Yeah, exactly. There's different types.

00:21:14.880 Most corporations are state entities. They're created by the state.

00:21:18.060 See, I'm agreeing with you. We're now ganging up on you and the corporation.

00:21:21.400 This ends up being a semantic argument. What I mean is groups of people working

00:21:24.540 together to achieve impossible things is something that's very appealing to me and

00:21:28.180 I see government as substantially inhibiting that.

00:21:31.420 The state is the enemy. I don't have a question.

00:21:33.140 I don't see a... I see a subtle difference between corporations and the state, but I view

00:21:39.060 them largely as the same thing.

00:21:40.540 That's why I'm anti-corporation. I'm like so anti-corporation.

00:21:43.980 We're just using words differently.

00:21:45.300 Right, we'll clarify this. By corporation, I typically mean conglomerates.

00:21:48.840 That's right.

00:21:49.380 Like a small private corporation basically just means a group of people. It could be five people.

00:21:53.820 It could be one person who has like, here's an entity designed to do a thing.

00:21:57.220 I'm going to work with these three people. But when you get to these massive multinational

00:22:00.600 conglomerates, they're basically governments.

00:22:04.200 That's correct. And the state, actually, the government creates corporations.

00:22:09.520 These are laws of incorporation. I think they should be abolished.

00:22:12.720 We should have free enterprise. Absolutely. But we don't need any special protections for

00:22:17.320 corporations at all.

00:22:18.220 No, I disagree with that.

00:22:19.920 Okay.

00:22:20.180 So, let's say a guy wants to open a, I don't know, a coffee shop. And so, he does. And

00:22:29.500 then, at his coffee shop, one of his coffee suppliers sends him a bad batch. Someone drinks

00:22:34.920 that coffee, gets sick. With no corporation, they go to the guy who opened the coffee shop

00:22:40.500 and they take his house from him.

00:22:42.120 You can recreate all this through voluntary contract.

00:22:45.380 Absolutely.

00:22:45.920 So, you put a contract in the front of the store saying, by entering the store, you hereby

00:22:49.400 agree?

00:22:50.040 Yeah, yeah. The liability is limited.

00:22:52.060 I find it kind of silly that someone's going to come in and sign a contract.

00:22:56.620 It's implicit. Implicit contract.

00:22:58.160 But it's not even that. I mean, if there was a big piece of contract on a window and I

00:23:02.420 walked in, no judge is going to be like, that's legally enforceable. So, I think the idea

00:23:06.840 of corporations as isolating entities for a specific purpose and limiting liability is a good

00:23:11.260 thing.

00:23:11.420 You end up with the same thing. You already do have the very long thing. The very long

00:23:15.680 thing already exists. You just didn't get to agree to it. So, all you're doing is making

00:23:19.220 the agreement to the very long thing exist. There's no avoiding the very long thing.

00:23:22.320 But so, then you're agreeing there should be a law that basically limits the liability

00:23:25.800 from corporations to personal.

00:23:27.280 No, I think you want to make private property as locally owned as possible. That's your

00:23:34.400 atom. You build up from there via contract. And I am doing what Aaron McIntyre calls the

00:23:39.740 libertarian atheist thing of recreating everything from its smallest atoms. But yeah, that's what

00:23:46.080 you want to do. It's private property as local as possible. You do end up building much larger

00:23:50.100 structures out of these atoms. I think you end up being able to recreate large corporations

00:23:53.800 from these atoms. They will exist. The idea that some people have that everything large

00:23:59.300 is bad. There is a danger with large things because of the power that they have. When big

00:24:04.760 things move and big things move in the world, there are massive repercussions just because

00:24:10.500 of the size. But that doesn't mean everything big is bad. There are things that we need that

00:24:15.640 need to be scalable because there are things that are going to affect larger portions of the

00:24:21.940 population. So you... Example. So there's nothing wrong with a large company that's building

00:24:28.360 skyscrapers. Building a skyscraper is a big job. It's going to take a big company. You're

00:24:32.220 going to have the finances. You're going to have to have all kinds of work. You're going

00:24:34.600 to have to have all this stuff. And people will look at a company that's a construction

00:24:37.860 company or... So the name is going to set everybody on edge. Halliburton. Right?

00:24:45.100 Halliburton's a massive company. But they go and they build like infrastructure for state

00:24:51.820 level... They build state level infrastructure. In countries which we've blown up.

00:24:55.440 Not all the time. No. See, now you're distracted. Now you're totally derailing it. That's totally

00:25:00.760 a bad... That's a crap thing to do because the point that I'm making is that things that

00:25:05.060 get big are not inherently bad. And when you tie it to, oh, it's large and it has...

00:25:09.380 The only reason that I brought up that as an example is because people understand the

00:25:14.240 size and because of the work that it did. As in infrastructure work. I'm not saying that

00:25:19.240 it's like, oh, we should... Just because I brought up Halliburton doesn't mean that I'm

00:25:22.020 endorsing... No, no, no, no, no. I wasn't saying that.

00:25:24.720 I mean, look, the point is... He's insulting Halliburton.

00:25:28.260 Yeah, that's what I was doing. Most corporations treat you well. Certainly most corporations treat

00:25:32.440 you far better than the government does. Because of legislation. You can sue them.

00:25:35.960 And so, I mean... I actually disagree with that.

00:25:38.740 You think you get treated better by the government?

00:25:41.080 I think it's the same thing. I think it's the exact same thing.

00:25:43.120 Corporations made everything here. Corporations flew us here and we stayed at a corporate hotel

00:25:48.500 and we buy corporate cars and it's corporations allow groups of people to...

00:25:52.280 But it's the same thing. And I can say the fire department keeps me safe from my buildings

00:25:57.080 burning down and the police department keep me safe from the guys trying to break in.

00:25:59.620 Well, local government does tend to be more effective. The larger it gets, the less effective

00:26:03.440 it gets. If you look at how effective your municipalities are, they actually tend to be

00:26:08.200 re... Like, it's... The schools suck, but it's... Your police department's not wasting tons of money.

00:26:12.500 Corporations may have given me these amazing guitars, but without the government, who's

00:26:16.080 going to blow up brown people?

00:26:18.080 Oh, that... Is that what we're getting to now?

00:26:20.700 That's government. That's government, though.

00:26:21.660 That's it. I am so anti-war and I am so offended by this government and Ukraine spending and all

00:26:26.380 that stuff. So I had... Any opportunity to rip on the US government for wasting our money on that

00:26:30.120 stuff? I mean, hate the 10 to 20% that suck. Hate the 10 to 20% of corporations or rich people or

00:26:35.800 whatever that take advantage of government, that lobby... Like, hate those that's not... Don't hate all

00:26:39.660 of them, though. Corporations and government are so deeply entrenched that they're the same thing.

00:26:43.940 And let me explain. So why do we get mandates? Why do we get vaccine mandates? I'll tell you this

00:26:49.440 story. I say, I want to put on an event. Timcast IRL, we want to do a live event. I'm pro 2A. If you

00:26:56.080 want to show up to my event and you want to be armed, go ahead and do it. That's Second Amendment.

00:27:00.000 If I have concerns about appearing on stage in front of people who might want to shoot...

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00:27:59.980 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops. So on behalf of Desjardins

00:28:06.860 Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care

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00:28:27.780 that we care?

00:28:30.600 That's my choice to make. I should not strip away someone else's right to keep in bare arms

00:28:34.900 and defend themselves because I'm scared of a random needle in a haystack. Not my choice because

00:28:40.640 of the government. What happens is, and it's a confluence of things. So security company has

00:28:47.660 to be insured and bonded. They can't allow, not allow guns into events that they secure. Some

00:28:53.000 might do this depending on how you hire them. Bank will not lend to buy property unless you have

00:29:00.420 insurance. Insurance company will not insure you unless you bar guns from your property. You have

00:29:06.380 a confluence of factors, many of which are stemming from government requirements on things like

00:29:10.640 insurance, stopping you from being able to exercise your rights and your freedoms.

00:29:14.100 They're in collusion.

00:29:15.480 So now let's go to the corporation. Corporations have HR departments, and they are required

00:29:21.520 under law to implement all this DEI crap. They can reject it, and then they're subject

00:29:26.400 to massive fines and liability, especially in New York City. Corporations are all intertwined

00:29:32.500 with government.

00:29:32.980 I don't understand where you, I still haven't heard the part where it's the corporation's

00:29:35.960 fault.

00:29:36.300 Yeah, everything's coming back to the state. Like everything you're saying, like I'm going

00:29:40.100 Yeah, the state.

00:29:40.940 Right, they're intertwined. That's my point. Without the state, they wouldn't be intertwined.

00:29:45.100 Look, you're not saying that's not true. I'm just saying right now, corporations and

00:29:48.700 the state are completely intertwined.

00:29:50.620 Sure, you have to. That's an incentive created by democracy and government. Like one of the

00:29:55.680 biggest, I had a company that was sued out of existence by the federal government. Don't

00:29:58.480 need to tell that story right now. But the biggest lesson that I learned was I should

00:30:02.740 have been better at manipulating the government. I should have been giving more money to politicians.

00:30:06.820 I should have been playing the game better. So that is the incentive created by government.

00:30:12.020 I'm someone who wanted to succeed at building something. And in order to build things in

00:30:16.420 the United States, you have to play the game. But that's not corporations fault.

00:30:20.980 And if you had built in, say, New Zealand, they'd have raided your compound with local and

00:30:26.760 federal agents.

00:30:27.880 So you're just proving governments suck everywhere except for just here.

00:30:31.200 I am not a fan of...

00:30:32.540 I mean, we agree.

00:30:33.900 Yeah, no, I think I don't agree that without government, corporations don't become monolithic

00:30:40.960 monsters.

00:30:41.820 Without government, corporations would not exist because limited liability would not

00:30:45.240 exist, which is a creature of the state.

00:30:47.040 But corporations don't need to be sanctioned by states to be...

00:30:52.300 I think it gets recreated. I think similar to Tim's coffee shop story, you end up granting

00:30:56.800 limited liability to almost every interaction anyway.

00:30:59.500 But government is meaning. It's confidence in a system. If you say, like, if you woke up

00:31:04.360 tomorrow and there was no government anywhere, a group of people would get together, take

00:31:08.300 guns and start robbing people. And they would call themselves the freedom faction, control

00:31:13.100 faction. And then people become loyal to them. And there'd be a second in command and a third

00:31:17.240 in command. And they grow large and they'd have 10,000 members.

00:31:19.500 No, I do not believe the warlord model.

00:31:22.460 Libertarian...

00:31:22.540 The trading company existed.

00:31:24.220 That's why the New Hampshire answer, you need a positive libertarian state. You need a

00:31:27.900 libertarian society with a... It can't be completely amoral. It can't be completely,

00:31:33.760 you know, no stance on anything. You have to have a positive vision. You have to have a pro-liberty

00:31:39.280 culture and you have to be willing to take actions to maintain it. And that is the only way that

00:31:43.920 it will ever work. So you do need something. You can have a lot less, but you're not going to

00:31:48.180 nothing. I know you get into a million and one arguments over the East India trading company

00:31:52.840 because people say, oh, but it's, it's, it's sanctioned by the crown or whatever. Either

00:31:56.280 way, it's a corporation that was colonizing. It was a massive multinational corporation

00:32:00.980 that was unto itself that sure it had protections from the British crown because the crown benefited

00:32:06.300 from it. That's more of a trade agreement. But these types of things exist. Mafias exist.

00:32:10.600 Of course.

00:32:11.160 And they are going to grow, expand, have, they're going to be operating in different countries

00:32:15.140 and different cities. And it's not, it's not a question of, do you need limited liability?

00:32:19.800 It's that you have zero protections under a mafia control system, right? We're already

00:32:24.860 living in anarcho capitalism and we're already there.

00:32:27.140 Act.

00:32:28.140 Look, I mean, one of the things that, uh, Carrie said, um, I was thinking as soon as you, you brought

00:32:38.940 up the, um, I forget what you, what it was that meant that you mentioned, but it spawned

00:32:42.820 the idea. Do you think that if, if we can't roll back the government enough to feel confident

00:32:49.680 that, that the state isn't going to make everything, um, you know, somehow get his fingers into

00:32:54.880 something into everything somehow, do you think that there would be an effect by, by rolling

00:33:00.240 back the laws that allow for such a litigious society? Do you think that those kinds of things

00:33:05.160 will help? Because right now what you're doing is you give people the option to involve the

00:33:09.400 state and they absolutely jump at it so they can hurt people. And that's, people do it all

00:33:15.180 the time. I'm going to sue you, not because they really have been injured, but because

00:33:18.260 they want to hurt someone. If we could manage to roll back that impulse by whether, whether

00:33:23.640 it be making people have to pay to, to lose a suit or whatever, do you think that that would

00:33:29.820 have an effect? Because I, I personally think that a significant part of our problem is that

00:33:34.600 people are so inclined to go to the state for help, not just the state. You're not going to like

00:33:40.280 what I'm going to have to say. Cause I'm a bit of a collapsitarian myself. The fact is we have this

00:33:45.000 chess board and you can't move one pawn without affecting another one. And you're trying to untangle

00:33:51.640 the Gordian knot that is just going to entrap you further. When I kind of think the whole chess board

00:33:57.140 just needs to be wiped clean and we need to start again. I actually don't believe in limiting

00:34:02.840 people's litigation possibilities because that's the only justice some people have,

00:34:08.020 but I do agree with you. And some States have, I'm a paralegal. If you didn't know

00:34:11.400 that if you start a suit and you lose, you pay the costs. I mean,

00:34:16.080 I just to disincentivize. I'm for revolutionary ends via marginal means, uh, is sort of the way

00:34:21.800 that I think about it. So, you know, I, you want to begin with that end in mind. You want to have

00:34:25.480 a very, uh, I'd like, I would like things to be different in many ways, but you have to find ways

00:34:29.500 of achieving that with marginality. That is, yeah. I completely agree. I was having this

00:34:34.340 conversation with Dave Smith because we were talking about Donald Trump and Dave is very

00:34:38.820 critical of a lot of Donald Trump's foreign policy. And my response is I will accept all of

00:34:44.360 your criticisms of Donald Trump's foreign policy. And then I'll counter. He tried to bring peace to

00:34:49.520 the Korean peninsula. He crossed into the DMZ. He was trying to make peace agreements in the Middle

00:34:53.900 East, whether you like them or not. He set a deadline for withdrawing the troops out of Afghanistan.

00:34:57.860 He tried getting our troops out of Syria. It's the first president in my lifetime. I'm 38. So I

00:35:02.980 don't know about you guys in my lifetime to actually actively reverse the policies of American

00:35:07.780 expansionism and hegemonic power. I vote for that because it is, it is the first while while saying

00:35:13.420 he thinks Israel needs to, you know, come back and be a major apply the marginality argument to

00:35:20.160 the three choices. Which one do you want to help at the margin? Don't even need to debunk Biden.

00:35:23.920 I assume that's, that doesn't need to be done. I think we've already agreed upon that right there.

00:35:28.480 So you've got, do I want to back like the gay race communist faction of the Libertarian

00:35:32.120 Party? Do I want to help them or do I want to marginally help a guy? You promised me that

00:35:36.140 you were going to endorse Biden in this show. Oh, that's right. I mean, so listen, I've had

00:35:39.920 some incontinence in my family, not personally, you know? And so I just think that, I just think

00:35:46.200 that he does contest. It's getting clipped no matter what. Did you hear about my weekend last

00:35:53.160 weekend or something? Look, okay, statistics say that every man, the, just, I just think it's

00:35:59.860 wrong. I just think it's wrong to dismiss someone out of hand because they've pooped their pants.

00:36:04.580 I think it's bigoted. Okay. Out of hand. That's it. Just because they poop their pants once and

00:36:09.620 wander off a stage. That's enough to discredit someone. I want to stand up for those kinds of

00:36:14.120 people. They're people too. I need to stress this to everybody. There is more evidence that

00:36:18.620 Joe Biden has pooped in his pants than there is that the Hunter Biden laptop is part of a Russian

00:36:22.480 scheme. I love that phrase. There's more evidence. Yeah. Shout out to Josie, the redhead libertarian.

00:36:30.720 She started that. There's a difference between government and governance. And I think that's

00:36:36.120 the distinction we could draw. And that is people can't agree to govern, to have governance without a

00:36:42.620 state that's overseeing it all. In other words, it's kind of voluntary. It's voluntary abidance by

00:36:50.020 various laws. You know what? I say this all the time. If everyone in this world were of the same

00:36:59.020 moral fortitude as Seamus Coughlin of Freedom Tunes, shout out Seamus, you'd need no police.

00:37:03.440 You'd need no government, no standing armies. Would be a paradise.

00:37:06.960 Why did the constitution fail? I think this is a very important question. Why did all this stuff fail?

00:37:10.880 So many libertarians and other people are holding on this worship of the written word. And if they

00:37:15.320 get the written words right, then everything will work. It's like, no, it failed because the people

00:37:20.100 change. Exactly. It's the people that matter. The more cultures fragment, the more morals diverge,

00:37:27.160 then the more heavy authoritarian infrastructure is required to stabilize factions that despise each

00:37:32.920 other. So therefore success requires, what is your selection mechanism for people? This is what

00:37:37.620 you have to think from first. I'm a eugenicist. I had children with someone because I believe that

00:37:45.800 she is better than average. So I believe that I don't, I don't mate at random. I don't mate at

00:37:51.080 random. So therefore I'm a eugenicist. You would have to mate at random to not be a eugenicist.

00:37:55.420 Nobody's not a eugenicist. Everyone's a eugenicist. But that's not what people mean when they say

00:37:58.740 eugenicist. Oh, state eugenics. Oh, that's terrible. That's terrible. But should we pay

00:38:02.960 dumb, dumb people who are addicted to drugs to not have children? Of course we should. Of course

00:38:07.320 that would be good policy to encourage people to bomb. We don't need to. They're just not doing

00:38:10.380 every mating is a natural selection. That's a very sensible public policy. But this, that is the

00:38:13.780 public policy. No, we encourage them to have children. We pay for it. We need to do the opposite.

00:38:17.380 It's, it's, it's right, right now it's shifting towards the opposite. I agree with you with

00:38:21.080 subsidy. That's helpful. But now it's, every, every, every, every, every, every, every major

00:38:26.340 with other people's money to do anything. I have great news for you. It's not other people's

00:38:31.360 money that you print it. Let's say, let's, we'll stay on point. Everybody, it's becoming a

00:38:35.060 cacophony. But it's libertarians. Come on. Right, right now, a big trend is, it's a cultural

00:38:39.780 shift. Hollywood movies, shows, advocating people terminate their children or sterilize

00:38:45.700 their children. Right. And there's two principal factions. It seems like there's a, a libertarian

00:38:53.020 right and MAGA overlap in certain areas where not every, I would say this, most libertarians

00:38:59.180 I know are very wired in. That's unfortunate. They're too plugged in. Uh, I would say a good

00:39:04.120 portion of the MAGA people are not massively plugged in. They have a general understanding

00:39:08.820 that these policies over here didn't work and we like this guy. But then there are a lot

00:39:13.360 of Trump supporters, especially the influential ones who are very well read, know what's going

00:39:17.080 on. I can't say the same for liberals at all. They don't know. No clue. No clue what's going

00:39:21.420 on. So when you take these two factions and then you have this large tree of quote unquote

00:39:25.520 far right, which is everyone who's not a Democrat. And they're all basically saying having kids

00:39:29.440 is great and we should protect our children. Then the other faction is saying you can get

00:39:32.860 an abortion at nine months. That's the policy you're talking about. Sorts itself out.

00:39:36.160 And the state is actually, the state's behind it. The state wants you, it wants to abolish the

00:39:42.180 family because it looks at the family as the final bastion. What's the state? So I don't,

00:39:47.320 I'm a public choice kind of libertarian to who, like, I think we need to think more atomistically

00:39:52.440 in why that kind of thing is, is happening. Um, I'm not saying it's not, uh, but who's doing it

00:39:58.320 and why? Who's they though? I mean, the state is, well, the lizard people, obviously I thought

00:40:03.580 we agreed on that. Jeremy is they, they're not lizards. Get ready for a Las Vegas style

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00:41:10.840 insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

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00:41:28.920 on care. Did I mention that we care?

00:41:34.320 I did all the states.

00:41:35.820 The organization of Atlantis who have been living on the moon. Hold on. Harvard actually put out a

00:41:42.000 study, quote unquote study, that argued it is possible that ancient advanced humans have a moon

00:41:47.840 base. I'm not kidding. I'll go with it. And they also said it's also possible that advanced hominids

00:41:53.520 live underground. Yes. Or that there are, and this is a, this is dead serious. Abolish higher education.

00:41:59.380 A Harvard, a Harvard paper came out saying it is possible that UFOs are the result of a fairies,

00:42:05.160 elves, and gnomes. That is all more possible than the Libertarian Party winning a national war.

00:42:12.660 Okay. I'm going to say it. Birds aren't real. We just got to get that out there.

00:42:16.760 Which implies by a correlation, dinosaurs aren't real either then. Because once you realize that birds

00:42:22.520 aren't real, where did birds theoretically come from? This is why I have a confession.

00:42:27.160 Birds aren't real is recent because the government exterminated them all.

00:42:31.680 I have a confession to make. The reason I'm such a big advocate for chickens is that my handlers

00:42:37.200 are trying to encourage me to get more surveillance drones in the homes of every MAGA American.

00:42:43.180 It's a plan. Let's do it. Yeah.

00:42:45.460 You ever thought of breeding your chickens to try to get them more dinosaur-like over time? Like just

00:42:49.260 selective, you know, try to pick the most dinosaur-like? I thought about it, but I threw lizards in.

00:42:53.700 They bypassed that. They actually injected enzymes into the eggs, and they made a chicken with like teeth.

00:43:04.020 They were able to actually trigger that genetics in the animal, in the birds.

00:43:08.300 Wow.

00:43:08.520 Yeah. But I think that the chicken cycle is, it might be like eight months, a generation. I could be wrong. It's been a long time. We do have chickens, and they make more of themselves.

00:43:18.740 So, you know, but you do this, not to be more dinosaur-like, but you put a rooster in there who's a good rooster with the chicks, and then the chicks have babies that are like the rooster and the chicks, and then there you go.

00:43:29.440 So, and how did we get here?

00:43:33.200 It's a bit more granular about what Jeremy was asking. He was asking, who is this state? And I would say it is, the state is a psychopath magnet, I would say.

00:43:42.060 It attracts people who want to have power over others and control them, and likewise, it seeks to grow.

00:43:50.380 Those people seek to grow that state power, so they'll enact laws that actually decrease the autonomy and the freedom of individuals.

00:44:01.400 I used to, like, I think that I'm on Jeremy's tip a little bit here, because he's talking about, like, how the state is, or at least in my opinion, the state is really your neighbors.

00:44:12.860 There's so many people that will use the state against you, whether it be calling the HOA, well, HOA is not state, but whether it be calling the town because they don't like that you're painting your garage green or whatever.

00:44:26.280 And it's like, the problem is less this big, faraway government, and it's more the people that live in America, the people that want the state, the people that want the state against you.

00:44:37.500 And it's really reminiscent of, not to get too, like, movie or whatever, but it's really reminiscent of the way they describe people in the Matrix, right?

00:44:44.440 If they're in the Matrix, they're plugged in, and you can't convince them, and that's really the way that most Americans are.

00:44:49.460 They think that automatically, well, the government's good.

00:44:51.720 Well, if we want something, what do we do? We tell the government to do it.

00:44:53.920 And can the government do it? Of course the government can do it.

00:44:55.800 What? Why do you think that?

00:44:57.460 There's no reason to think that the government can automatically do everything, but that's the way people behave.

00:45:01.340 To tie it to some of the stuff about the cheering on of abortion or the trans stuff or all these weird cultural issues, I'm a big fan of this economist, Robin Hanson, and he talks about this idea of cultural drift, that basically we're in these mimetic environments that are so different from where we were ancestrally, that this is a kind of unprecedented era of memes competing with one another.

00:45:20.220 And memes are supposed to be adaptive.

00:45:21.860 They're supposed to help us evolutionarily, right?

00:45:23.820 Religion is generally an adaptive set of memes.

00:45:26.200 It helps us.

00:45:27.480 And so, you know, but now memes are competing via social media and in all of these new ways, and this is a sort of unprecedented mimetic environment.

00:45:33.760 And that this is part of, and obviously this gets entangled with government because the people in government adopt the memes, people in government enact the memes, they propagate them, so they are entangled.

00:45:42.700 But I think a lot of it is separate.

00:45:45.220 You know, like I think if you look at, say, here's an actual claim to test this kind of thing.

00:45:49.960 Like if I look at the transgender issue, government obviously is part of this, but I don't see it as the source of it.

00:45:58.060 I see it as something that's related to it, but it's in the culture.

00:46:01.180 It's not flowing from government to me.

00:46:03.940 I agree.

00:46:04.580 But they adopt it.

00:46:05.680 They adopt it.

00:46:06.880 Okay, so, yeah.

00:46:07.860 They're 40% of the economy.

00:46:09.520 That's the same principle, you know, that politics is downstream from culture.

00:46:14.740 Yeah.

00:46:14.900 But they do adopt it, and they have the power to actually enforce things.

00:46:19.040 That's the difference.

00:46:20.300 I don't think it's an enforcement thing.

00:46:22.320 I think it's an influence thing, and the influence is much, much more important.

00:46:27.060 Well, when you're paying people to have abortions or you're paying for abortions, you're paying for transgender surgery, this is, of course, kind of important.

00:46:35.200 Here's an example.

00:46:35.800 Take this fight over these books in school libraries, right?

00:46:39.820 In my view, very few kids are actually getting these ideas from books in school libraries.

00:46:46.320 Like, come on.

00:46:46.860 That is not where kids are getting their ideas from.

00:46:48.560 You were all a kid once.

00:46:49.540 That's not where you were getting their ideas from.

00:46:51.100 At the same time, the purpose of the fight over the books in the school libraries is to change the culture, is to signal that these ideas are bad and are wrong.

00:47:02.320 And so there's still value in fighting over the book being in the school, but it's to have the cultural point be fought over, not actually the book being in the school.

00:47:10.780 But the fight is not so much about the books.

00:47:12.620 It's about the curriculum.

00:47:14.420 And so many of the people that we've had on, Tim Castile, for instance, are not saying this book should not be here.

00:47:19.940 They're saying, as an aside to the argument that teachers should not teach kids about this, these books are examples of when they do, and this should not be allowed.

00:47:27.860 Totally.

00:47:28.540 Totally.

00:47:28.740 But you do run to the question, there's something very interesting in, I think a lot of people seem to miss this.

00:47:35.800 A lot of people on the right will make this argument that the left is, they're hypocrites.

00:47:39.400 They have no principles.

00:47:40.600 I don't think principles matter all that much either.

00:47:43.680 It's morals.

00:47:44.400 It's your moral line of what you accept to be good or bad.

00:47:47.380 So this is what I'm referring to when I say vaccine mandates, for instance.

00:47:51.280 I do not believe any private entity should be able to force employees to get medical treatments.

00:47:58.740 The issue I see there is that any medical treatment is currently in flux.

00:48:04.920 We have, you know, they used to get four people to drink mercury.

00:48:07.940 Can I consent to physical risk for other jobs?

00:48:10.460 Like, say, can I climb up a tall tower where my risk of dying is very high?

00:48:13.900 Yes.

00:48:14.060 Can I work on a mine where I have to inhale coal dust?

00:48:17.600 Uh-huh.

00:48:17.920 But I can't get paid for a weird medical treatment?

00:48:20.660 A company I do not believe has the right to say, you are not allowed to work here unless

00:48:25.400 you undergo a medical treatment.

00:48:26.640 You're not allowed to work here unless you're breathing coal dust.

00:48:28.880 That's completely different.

00:48:30.120 Why?

00:48:30.720 Because it's part of the job.

00:48:31.240 Coal dust exists in the mine, and you are choosing whether to go in that mine or not.

00:48:34.540 But a coffee shop doesn't have giant syringes trying to stab you at any moment.

00:48:39.660 Presumably, the business is asking its employees to do this because it has customers that want

00:48:45.520 employees to do that.

00:48:47.500 So they're not—in all cases, it's because someone else wants to pay money for the good.

00:48:52.280 Yeah, right.

00:48:52.520 If someone wants to pay money for the good—

00:48:54.200 This is principle versus moral.

00:48:54.820 Look, again, I—well, again, I think it's very moral.

00:48:57.120 I think if you want to pay, I think it makes no sense.

00:48:59.280 So I'm happy to condemn it morally, but I think there's—

00:49:03.640 We'll talk about it on the margins, though.

00:49:05.040 If you're talking about this, like, post-government free market society where it's mostly smaller

00:49:11.320 businesses and local entities, and they can compete, and one guy says, hey, I just realized

00:49:15.360 all these companies are forcing their employees.

00:49:17.540 Nobody wants to work there, so I can get them at a discount rate.

00:49:19.880 Fine.

00:49:20.400 Right now.

00:49:21.480 If I had an elderly person in elderly care in the summer of 2020, when COVID was potentially

00:49:28.000 going through nursing homes or already was, I would have absolutely paid extra money to

00:49:32.980 have treatment from nurses who had undergone variolation, that is, who had been purposely

00:49:39.520 infected and were now immune from the disease.

00:49:42.020 And that is a premium on top of the existing baseline that we live in.

00:49:46.140 So you're okay with me paying for—paying for them to literally catch COVID?

00:49:50.600 Yes.

00:49:51.180 Yeah.

00:49:51.560 But I couldn't pay for them to be vaccinated from COVID.

00:49:53.920 We're talking about every corporation excising—

00:49:58.260 I'm not defending—

00:49:59.340 Six thousand—

00:49:59.660 How about the military?

00:50:00.540 Kicking out 6,000 people.

00:50:01.420 Sure, that's terrible.

00:50:02.260 That should not be allowed.

00:50:03.820 But if you're going to say that something can't be allowed, you've got to argue against

00:50:06.940 the strongest case of it, not the weakest case of it.

00:50:07.940 No, I don't, because the point I'm making is morals versus principles.

00:50:11.400 And this is quite literally my point.

00:50:13.220 But we just came up with an exception.

00:50:14.540 We just said that in the nursing home—

00:50:15.600 So I think you're misunderstanding the difference between moral and a principle.

00:50:18.640 A principle is we cannot force businesses to do things.

00:50:22.360 Therefore, they can do any things.

00:50:24.340 My position is it actually depends on your moral framework.

00:50:27.600 In my moral framework, if somebody wants to work in a coal mine by choice, fine.

00:50:30.740 If they want to jump off a tower with bungee cords, fine.

00:50:33.160 But corporations should not be forcing people to undergo medical treatments.

00:50:36.340 That's a moral distinction, not a principle distinction.

00:50:39.040 I don't understand why some are voluntary and some are forced.

00:50:43.440 That's where I'm getting confused.

00:50:44.760 It's called morals.

00:50:46.080 So, for instance, do you think if there is a medical treatment that would save the life

00:50:51.200 of a child, the government should—and the parents refuse to give it to their child,

00:50:55.160 the government should seize the kids from the parent?

00:50:58.060 For a lot of these—

00:50:59.040 Sorry, let me try and rephrase it.

00:51:00.500 It seems a little complicated.

00:51:01.240 A kid has some medical diagnosis.

00:51:06.380 It is largely believed that it will be resulting in death.

00:51:10.000 The parents say the prescribed treatment we do not want.

00:51:14.200 Should the government intervene and take the children away from the parent?

00:51:17.780 I place a big moral distinction between whether I'm enforcing my morals sort of in my community

00:51:22.460 versus at the state and national level.

00:51:24.480 So, what level am I asking?

00:51:26.440 Am I answering these questions?

00:51:27.320 Should local police take the child away from the parents who refuse to give it the proper

00:51:31.960 medical treatment prescribed by a doctor?

00:51:36.640 I'm okay with local enforcement of child abuse generally on all kinds of axes.

00:51:40.560 Okay, so kids got a malignant tumor that can be removed safely—

00:51:45.320 I'm okay with local policing of that, yeah.

00:51:47.140 Okay, so now we'll get the specifics of it.

00:51:50.660 There's a child, seven years old, with a malignant tumor that can be easily removed.

00:51:55.800 Easily removed.

00:51:56.980 And with 100% success rate, the doctor says, look, if it's left to grow, the kid will die

00:52:01.420 in six months.

00:52:02.600 We can remove it right now.

00:52:03.800 And the kid with 100% chance and 95% greater—like, we believe there will be no complications.

00:52:08.420 And the parents say, no, you're a crackpot, and we're going to worship Moloch and pray

00:52:15.840 that the tumor goes away.

00:52:17.800 You'd be okay with the police coming in, taking that kid from the parents, and saying,

00:52:22.200 we're going to remove this tumor?

00:52:23.300 I would—yeah, I'd probably—I wouldn't stop them.

00:52:27.940 I wouldn't—there's also a bunch of—

00:52:29.400 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:52:30.780 So there's also a bunch of—

00:52:32.020 This is really important.

00:52:32.660 It's really important that I get to the point of what I'm saying.

00:52:35.260 So it's—

00:52:35.620 Okay.

00:52:36.060 But okay with is also different from funding or participating.

00:52:38.700 That's fine.

00:52:39.180 That's fine.

00:52:39.900 But so if you saw the cops come up and say, if you were standing by and the cop said,

00:52:44.060 this kid's got a malignant tumor.

00:52:45.120 You can see it right there.

00:52:45.900 It's on his chest.

00:52:46.720 We're just going to have it removed.

00:52:47.680 The kid's going to be okay.

00:52:48.500 These parents are—this kid's going to die.

00:52:50.580 You'd say, well, okay, I guess, right?

00:52:51.960 Okay.

00:52:53.860 You tolerate, you accept local police taking a child to give them a very easy medical procedure

00:53:00.180 to save their life.

00:53:01.360 We can—I can come up with—child abuse is generally going to be policed in all—anytime

00:53:06.640 98, 99—

00:53:07.840 Sure.

00:53:08.640 If you're—in the—in extreme cases of what we would want to call medical malpractice or

00:53:13.680 parents doing things that are very clearly hurting their children, we can come up with

00:53:17.100 all kinds of hypotheticals here.

00:53:18.880 Okay, this is a really simple hypothetical.

00:53:22.040 A kid with a tumor—

00:53:23.340 I think I'm agreeing that it's fine, but—

00:53:24.540 Okay.

00:53:24.900 The problem with that is what happens if it's a vaccine.

00:53:27.000 Yeah.

00:53:27.400 And now the point is this.

00:53:28.340 A child is gender dysphoric, and the government says, you need to chop his balls off, otherwise

00:53:35.120 he will die.

00:53:36.320 And the parents say, that's insane.

00:53:38.300 But the doctor says, no, it's the only way.

00:53:41.000 Would you rather have a daughter or a dead son?

00:53:43.920 The police come in and say, for the exact same reasons, this is to save the life of the

00:53:48.660 child as per the doctor's orders.

00:53:50.020 Would you support the police coming and taking a child to get his testicles cut off?

00:53:54.020 All this proves is there's no possibility of writing laws, right?

00:53:56.940 If—when 98% of people want something—

00:53:59.220 No, but what I'm saying is, Tim—

00:54:00.500 I'll say no.

00:54:01.180 All your—

00:54:01.580 This is called—

00:54:02.540 Okay, this is the point.

00:54:03.940 The point is you're—I am trying to explain to you morals versus principles.

00:54:07.200 The principle is we either do or do not allow the state to take children from parents

00:54:11.760 who disagree with medical treatments, but there is no one or the other.

00:54:15.260 In some circumstances—

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00:55:13.160 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:55:19.100 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level

00:55:23.300 to tell our clients that we really care about you.

00:55:26.220 We care about you.

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00:55:28.360 Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

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00:55:34.400 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care.

00:55:39.380 Care.

00:55:40.040 Did I mention that we care?

00:55:41.440 We draw a moral line.

00:55:45.340 You're not cutting off that kid's testicles no matter what a doctor says.

00:55:48.120 In another instance, we say, yes, we're getting the tumor roof based on our view.

00:55:51.580 It's not a moral rather than a principle stance.

00:55:53.400 What I'm saying is I think that that's false.

00:55:54.820 I think that you literally can't craft a principle that people will consistently interpret

00:55:59.820 when they're 98% in the two different camps.

00:56:03.700 Like, in other words, you can, no matter how strict you try to write down your principle

00:56:09.580 of you can't do child abuse and child, like you could write a law that said, let me give

00:56:13.920 you, let me give you my moral.

00:56:15.040 You could write a law that said it is absolutely categorically child abuse to cut off a child's

00:56:21.160 penis.

00:56:21.360 And if 99% of people believe that it was moral to transgender to their children, they'd just

00:56:25.580 go, well, it's not a penis.

00:56:26.720 Or they'd go, that's not a child.

00:56:28.180 My point is.

00:56:28.760 Or they'd interpret the principle in some other way.

00:56:30.500 That you have a moral line, not a principle line on this issue.

00:56:34.800 There are all kinds of times where I'm interested in applying my morals, of course.

00:56:38.200 And that was my point about morals versus principles.

00:56:41.420 So when it comes to a business, and I say no mandated medical procedures, but someone

00:56:47.700 could choose to take a risk if they want, that's not at odds.

00:56:50.880 That's a moral argument versus a principle argument.

00:56:52.880 I don't, I understand that there's a distinction between those things exist to you.

00:56:58.160 There's just not one to me.

00:56:59.540 Oh, there's absolutely a distinction.

00:57:00.360 Hold on, we just proved there was.

00:57:02.300 No, there's absolutely a distinction.

00:57:03.740 You would allow the state to come in and take a child from its parents to cut his balls

00:57:07.240 off?

00:57:08.600 No.

00:57:09.440 But you would allow the state to come in to remove a tumor.

00:57:12.500 Which means it's a moral issue.

00:57:13.860 That's the divide.

00:57:14.740 The demarcation is not principle, it's moral.

00:57:16.640 One doctor prescribes the exact same, to two kids, he says, I'm Dr. Smith.

00:57:21.300 This kid needs his balls cut off.

00:57:22.580 This kid needs a tumor cut off.

00:57:24.320 You would let the state come to remove the tumor, but not the balls.

00:57:26.920 Correct.

00:57:27.480 That's a moral, non-principled argument.

00:57:29.400 Yes.

00:57:30.360 Obviously.

00:57:31.860 See, I disagree.

00:57:32.720 Principle.

00:57:33.040 I disagree.

00:57:33.460 There's a principle that encapsulates the morals.

00:57:35.500 Under your principle, there's a distinction between morals and principles.

00:57:40.160 Under my principle, they match.

00:57:42.060 They quite literally don't.

00:57:43.160 You either are for the state enforcing medical dictate or not.

00:57:46.500 You're creating an arbitrary division of principles.

00:57:49.220 It's like, okay, you're saying, here's what you're doing.

00:57:52.520 You're saying, okay, a person is shot when they're about to stab someone.

00:57:59.420 So you shoot someone in self-defense.

00:58:00.820 You shoot them dead.

00:58:01.440 Versus this other person shoots someone dead for no reason at all.

00:58:05.160 Are you against shooting or not?

00:58:06.780 What do you mean?

00:58:07.180 Are you principled or are you just making a moral distinction?

00:58:09.020 Are you against shooting or not?

00:58:09.600 What is your argument about vaccine mandates?

00:58:12.820 The distinction about whether things are, whether you're agreeing to these kinds of things is whether they're-

00:58:18.880 People are going to interpret a principle based on morals.

00:58:22.220 I was trying to make that point as well.

00:58:24.040 Then there's no argument whatsoever with my position on businesses should not be able to force medical procedures.

00:58:29.780 Oh, I believe you can want whatever you want.

00:58:31.940 If you want a world that works that way, I think you should try to achieve one.

00:58:36.180 It's not what I want.

00:58:37.340 If businesses want to mandate certain things that we've not discussed, then it is of the powers unto them.

00:58:42.780 And the one thing I restrict is that forcing medical procedures in the same way is people can't shoot someone without cause.

00:58:48.760 I prefer maximum voluntarism.

00:58:51.380 You make exceptions.

00:58:52.160 You think there are some things that people should not be able to voluntarily agree to.

00:58:55.600 And I come up with exceptions too.

00:58:57.040 Almost everyone ends up coming with exceptions.

00:58:58.780 You have an exception where you say under no cases should people voluntarily be paid for certain types of medical treatment.

00:59:04.540 No, no, no.

00:59:04.820 I'm saying private entities-

00:59:06.160 That's a principle you can have.

00:59:07.140 ...and the government together, neither or individually, should be allowed to mandate private individuals undergo medical treatments in exchange for employment.

00:59:18.960 And the exception to that is unless said medical treatment is a specific requirement for the job, for which vaccine mandates are not.

00:59:25.420 Yeah, I mean, this is an example of like a mode of conjugation where we're both just like baking our conclusions into the language.

00:59:30.640 So, you know, the trans example is to one group it's chemical castration and to the other group it's gender-affirming care.

00:59:36.640 Like, we're baking our conclusions into the way that we talk about it as being sort of, you know, voluntary versus-

00:59:43.720 And that's exactly what Chase Oliver did in the entire campaign.

00:59:47.400 That's exactly what he did.

00:59:48.560 He did stating what seems to be on a prima facie libertarian principles, but baked into it was a kind of coded language that implied a certain moral stance.

00:59:58.980 For example, that he suggested that we want the state not to have anything to do with how you raise your children.

01:00:06.280 Code for we want you to be allowed to have your child, you know, have chemical castration.

01:00:13.380 I'm going to bake it right in.

01:00:14.420 I will clarify, too.

01:00:15.640 His position is no surgery, but yes.

01:00:18.060 Yeah, right.

01:00:18.780 Chemical castration.

01:00:20.320 I'm baking it in.

01:00:21.760 But that makes no, as Liz Wolf from Reason correctly did.

01:00:27.160 There's no distinction.

01:00:28.220 There isn't a distinction.

01:00:29.900 If you're going to permanently medically alter somebody, but you're just doing it through chemicals rather than through surgery, I do not think there's a distinction.

01:00:40.200 But here's where this gets to that sort of unifies all of this, because it's something that the Libertarian Party is doing, and it's the same as all of this discussion is.

01:00:46.260 It's great to talk about principles.

01:00:48.720 Oh, we all like freedom.

01:00:49.820 We're all against child abuse.

01:00:51.380 We're talking these abstract language.

01:00:53.160 But where the rubber meets the mode is, what do you mean by those things?

01:00:56.000 In software, I would call it the unit test.

01:00:58.380 What's child abuse?

01:00:59.840 That's why he's saying it's a moral issue.

01:01:02.120 But we could, I think there's room for advancement.

01:01:04.600 We could talk less.

01:01:06.140 I mean, we can talk about our principles, but if we don't pair that with, well, what does that mean?

01:01:10.660 Then, you know, all the principles are doing is letting us pretend we agree, but it's fake.

01:01:15.240 And this is what all this Libertarian Party fighting is highlighting.

01:01:18.100 It's like, we wrote this statement of principles, like, oh, we all agree.

01:01:20.800 But then we completely disagree about what they mean.

01:01:23.680 Morally.

01:01:24.060 Yeah.

01:01:24.440 And that's the conflict that we see.

01:01:28.400 And that's why when we go back to the argument about businesses and vaccine mandates, I actually think my view is this.

01:01:35.600 If there's one thing government should do, it's to protect the liberties of individuals at the bare minimum, preserving life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

01:01:42.120 If a network of private entities, for some reason or other, all start requiring a medical treatment, I believe it is the purpose of the state to say this has to stop because you are infringing on the liberties of the individual.

01:01:56.060 I think it's very difficult for a democracy to produce those outcomes.

01:01:59.580 Similar to the fact that, you know, for example, anti-discrimination law was mostly worthless because 50% of people already didn't want discrimination.

01:02:08.560 So, you know, generally, by the time the government is capable of producing laws to protect minorities, it was unnecessary because there was already.

01:02:17.520 So, you know, let's if we look at what happened with vaccine, like vaccine mandates did not work.

01:02:22.600 Right.

01:02:22.740 They were.

01:02:23.320 The government did push them.

01:02:24.820 I agree with this completely.

01:02:25.800 Very wrong.

01:02:26.880 Yes.

01:02:27.160 The free market is what rejected that.

01:02:29.860 The free market is what rejected vaccine mandates.

01:02:32.080 There were enough people who said, I'm not going to tolerate this.

01:02:34.480 I'm not going to go into stores that do it.

01:02:36.040 I'm going to fight it.

01:02:36.760 I will go in unmasked.

01:02:37.680 I will be a jerk.

01:02:38.140 I don't think that's true.

01:02:39.600 What stop?

01:02:40.780 Vaccine mandates mostly.

01:02:42.220 There was a brief period where they were happening for events.

01:02:44.820 They ultimately all went away.

01:02:47.020 And it was a private chain reaction.

01:02:50.980 Yeah.

01:02:51.140 A free market.

01:02:51.880 Dr. Fauci came out and made one of his stupid WHO and CDC guidelines.

01:02:56.820 I think that was lagging behind.

01:02:58.400 I think they tried to push it.

01:02:59.600 Big venue then started pulling this.

01:03:00.240 And it lagged behind.

01:03:01.280 The public wasn't having it.

01:03:02.860 The public, you know, stood up.

01:03:04.700 I remember we were posting some very spicy memes during that area, comparing it to colored

01:03:08.680 water fountains.

01:03:09.840 Okay.

01:03:10.260 And what we saw was en masse fake vaccine cards.

01:03:14.200 And that's another example.

01:03:15.640 People bent the knee.

01:03:16.760 But that's another example.

01:03:18.560 Well, again, I don't know.

01:03:19.340 My life.

01:03:19.760 I was in New Hampshire.

01:03:20.480 I didn't have almost any of this to me during COVID.

01:03:23.000 It wasn't a problem.

01:03:23.700 I walked around unmasked.

01:03:24.900 I didn't, I never, the idea of a vaccine mandate was never a thing.

01:03:28.400 Our government outlawed vaccine mandates from any, well, from any private entity or

01:03:33.120 government funded entity.

01:03:34.160 So if you were even a business that received government funding, you couldn't do a vaccine

01:03:37.560 mandate.

01:03:37.600 New York was the opposite.

01:03:39.000 So, so I don't know.

01:03:40.980 Maybe, maybe my percent, maybe I'm misremembering this from my New Hampshire experience, but

01:03:44.680 that was my impression was the way it played.

01:03:46.460 I was the free market.

01:03:46.880 New York was the opposite.

01:03:48.080 International borders, especially, but that's government.

01:03:50.200 So I can accept that.

01:03:51.080 But why do I want to rule New York?

01:03:52.740 Like my, I live in New Hampshire.

01:03:54.140 We didn't have vaccine mandates there.

01:03:55.260 Why do I care what New York does?

01:03:57.080 Why do I want it?

01:03:57.860 Why do I want to stop?

01:03:58.700 New York liked vaccine mandates because they're stupid liberals.

01:04:01.340 Like, why do I care?

01:04:02.480 I agree.

01:04:03.180 New York feeds people into the federal government, which comes after you eventually.

01:04:06.240 I agree.

01:04:07.160 I suppose the challenge right now is exactly what you're saying, is that blue states target

01:04:11.660 the federal government to target the red states.

01:04:13.780 But no, I agree.

01:04:14.560 And my point is in West Virginia, where I live, I do not think they should be legally allowed

01:04:19.280 to require medical, medical treatment.

01:04:20.940 You're just making the case for national divorce.

01:04:22.920 So it's making me happy.

01:04:24.500 Oh, boy.

01:04:25.480 Oh, here we go.

01:04:26.860 I don't think he's going there.

01:04:28.520 That's where I'm going.

01:04:29.660 National divorce can be at least a three way.

01:04:32.260 So let's remember that.

01:04:33.660 National divorce means civil war means World War Three.

01:04:36.820 Yeah.

01:04:37.300 It doesn't have to.

01:04:38.660 No way up but through.

01:04:39.960 Do I think it's likely?

01:04:42.020 Accelerate.

01:04:42.600 Absolutely.

01:04:42.720 I'm not stupid.

01:04:43.820 It's not about, it's not about what Americans are going to do.

01:04:46.340 It's about what the rest of the world is going to do.

01:04:47.940 The U.S. starts to have a significant civil unrest.

01:04:53.360 And then the rest of the world is going to say they have a boatload of nuclear weapons.

01:04:56.920 And we cannot allow that country to dissolve and have those nuclear weapons.

01:05:02.300 So that means that the U.N. would send forces in.

01:05:04.660 And I'm not saying this.

01:05:05.280 But we're not doing that to the Soviet Union who's fallen apart.

01:05:08.600 The Soviet Union is not the United States of America.

01:05:11.740 And to imply that they're the same is actually ridiculous.

01:05:15.060 I didn't say they were the same.

01:05:16.780 I did say they have a lot of nuclear weapons.

01:05:19.360 The point that I'm making is the rest of the world is not going to allow the United States

01:05:25.440 to fall into multiple countries without significant actions by China and by Russia.

01:05:31.700 These things.

01:05:32.520 What?

01:05:33.080 Iran.

01:05:33.800 Oh, yeah.

01:05:34.380 Iran.

01:05:34.800 I thought you said you're wrong.

01:05:35.400 I was like, what?

01:05:35.980 You're wrong.

01:05:36.560 No, Israel.

01:05:36.980 Israel.

01:05:37.420 I mean, a bunch of countries.

01:05:39.560 But the fact of the matter is, if the U.S. destabilizes, that means that other countries

01:05:44.120 are going to invade the United States.

01:05:46.640 I think that they would be against destabilization.

01:05:51.200 But I don't know that they would necessarily be against splitting up.

01:05:54.340 The United States splitting up is in China's interest, isn't it?

01:05:57.780 The issue I see is a lot of people come and they advocate for peaceful national divorce.

01:06:03.140 I think the first thing you see in peaceful national divorce is the Republic of Nevada invading

01:06:08.480 California, eastern farmland, because Nevada doesn't have the resources to support its citizenry,

01:06:14.880 water or food.

01:06:16.020 They trade.

01:06:16.960 What do they trade?

01:06:17.720 What does Vegas trade?

01:06:19.080 Hookers and...

01:06:19.920 Hookers and blow, man.

01:06:22.160 Hookers?

01:06:22.520 Hookers don't exist in California?

01:06:26.060 Hookers don't exist in Arizona or Colorado?

01:06:27.880 People from California go to Vegas all the time.

01:06:29.720 Why?

01:06:31.040 Because they're...

01:06:32.000 Yeah, I don't...

01:06:32.800 Honestly, I've been to Las Vegas.

01:06:33.860 I don't really get it.

01:06:34.940 The argument that abstract luxuries created as a byproduct of government enforcement will

01:06:39.640 continue to exist after a national divorce is absurd.

01:06:42.880 Eastern California has some of the most farmland and food production.

01:06:46.940 And Nevada...

01:06:48.700 Okay, let's cut out the...

01:06:50.140 I don't know what Nevada trade...

01:06:51.320 If Nevada falls apart, then the citizens will leave and move.

01:06:54.840 They'll just move to California.

01:06:56.100 Why are they going to stay there and wage war against California?

01:06:58.680 They can just go be productive and...

01:06:59.980 War is...

01:07:00.680 You know, the thing about war is it's very counterproductive.

01:07:03.280 It's very costly, very counterproductive.

01:07:05.620 It's mostly irrational behavior.

01:07:06.980 What will happen is you will have the Nevada Legion storming the Hoover Dam to seize control.

01:07:12.560 You just want this to happen.

01:07:13.780 This is...

01:07:14.340 That's a non-argument.

01:07:15.540 You're just writing your novel about...

01:07:16.920 That's a non-argument.

01:07:18.300 Make a real argument.

01:07:20.780 Southern California is dependent upon the Colorado River, which flows through multiple states

01:07:24.700 that all require access to that water.

01:07:25.760 Okay, we've all played fallout, okay?

01:07:27.500 Exactly.

01:07:28.260 And so in this region specifically, who...

01:07:31.360 How do you prevent people saying, right now, we have a national...

01:07:36.100 We have a national agreement on we get access to these things and a federal system.

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01:09:05.740 Did I mention that we care?

01:09:09.160 Some which can enforce courts when it comes to the state level.

01:09:13.560 If one state says, we have an expanding population, so we need to dam right here so that we can build

01:09:18.960 a reservoir, then downstream, they're saying, hey, you're cutting off my people, you can't

01:09:23.200 do this.

01:09:23.460 Sure, well, this is all an argument for marginal national divorce and not a revolutionary national

01:09:29.200 divorce.

01:09:29.480 This is why we want to be nudging it so that we can make sure we're working out how states

01:09:33.100 can work out disagreements.

01:09:34.460 Of course, this idea that, of course, larger systems need to exist.

01:09:40.100 Of course, regions are going to have disagreements with one another, and we want to have the

01:09:43.340 best possible agreeable mechanisms for solving those kinds of problems.

01:09:46.740 But the idea that they can't exist or that the only way of solving these problems is exactly

01:09:52.880 the United States of America.

01:09:54.480 I don't think that's true.

01:09:55.480 I'm just saying a national divorce will go...

01:09:57.140 They'll push towards better ideas and better systems.

01:09:59.420 So what happens in the fall of the Soviet Union, and this would likely happen, so you

01:10:04.400 get a, I don't know, Cargill or something, Purdue, a meat processing plant, and they've

01:10:08.380 got X...

01:10:09.100 I don't want to use a specific example because I don't know where the factories exactly

01:10:11.340 are, but let's say there's a meat processing company, and they've got five major factories

01:10:16.040 in each region.

01:10:17.320 When a national divorce happens, the superseding control structure of that corporation does

01:10:23.760 not maintain that bond.

01:10:26.200 So a factory in Arizona and a factory in New York, that control structure is shattered when

01:10:33.040 a national divorce happens.

01:10:34.680 What happened in the Soviet Union is Ukraine, the Soviet Union collapses.

01:10:38.720 So the factories in Ukraine, they're producing various goods, food or otherwise.

01:10:43.660 They all of a sudden have no boss.

01:10:45.580 And so they're saying, well, when our supply's coming in, we don't know where supplies are

01:10:49.760 coming from.

01:10:50.640 Dude shows up with a gun and two of his buddies, and he says, who's in charge of this factory?

01:10:55.340 And they say, this guy, he's the factory for him.

01:10:57.420 And he walks over and he was like, what's going on?

01:10:58.860 They were like, are your supplies coming in?

01:11:01.180 And they're like, no.

01:11:02.020 It's like, who do you report to?

01:11:03.280 He's like, they don't answer the phones anymore.

01:11:05.340 They're like, okay, from now on, we're in charge.

01:11:07.220 I'm your boss.

01:11:07.880 It's my factory.

01:11:08.720 And we're going to make sure you guys all get your food.

01:11:10.740 I'll get your money.

01:11:11.520 And then you report to us.

01:11:12.720 And they went, you got it, boss.

01:11:13.920 And that was the rise of the oligarchs.

01:11:15.440 That's an example of a disordered, highly fractional, adversarial divorce.

01:11:21.660 It does not have to be that way.

01:11:23.320 And if anything, the fact that national U.S. corporations wouldn't want it to be that way

01:11:26.340 is an encouraging factor towards there being frameworks for maintaining property rights

01:11:30.820 and maintaining structure.

01:11:32.800 We already have frameworks for international corporations.

01:11:34.920 Corporations already exist across national boundaries.

01:11:37.160 We already have.

01:11:37.880 And so do you think that your average mid to high size company in the United States with

01:11:44.720 coast to coast operations is going to hire private military contractors or security to

01:11:49.500 enforce and control their property rights?

01:11:51.160 If there's five different, if there are five regions, if there are five, and I'm not arguing

01:11:56.080 for this specific solution.

01:11:57.020 This is just hypothetical.

01:11:57.500 But if there are five separate sub-United States, I'm not seeing why this would automatically,

01:12:03.620 again, United States and Canada get along fine-ish.

01:12:06.340 Which one would have control over the military?

01:12:11.120 Which one would have control over the nuclear weapons?

01:12:14.200 Which one would have control over?

01:12:15.540 They can all have their own nuclear weapons.

01:12:18.060 They're not going to have them right away.

01:12:19.840 There's going to be one base.

01:12:21.540 Aren't there already nuclear weapons in all five states all over the U.S.?

01:12:25.540 Yeah, but they don't have control over it.

01:12:26.940 Here's something that's just not being said, okay?

01:12:30.040 It is inevitable.

01:12:31.840 You know where they say too big to fail?

01:12:33.920 I think we're too big not to fail.

01:12:36.060 And I think if we are not talking about the solutions, we're just like the ostriches burying

01:12:42.060 our head in the sand.

01:12:42.960 If you don't look around and see that some kind of separation is going to happen, I'm sorry

01:12:49.340 you're a fool.

01:12:50.160 There is just no way that this current system we have right now is sustainable.

01:12:56.520 Well, either we separate or America becomes Brazil.

01:12:58.720 Those are the only two scenarios.

01:13:00.080 So America can become a sort of dysfunctional state.

01:13:06.040 Become dysfunctional.

01:13:07.680 For better or worse, the United States remains one of the best functioning states in the world.

01:13:14.320 People choose to do business in the United States.

01:13:17.140 People seek out the United States.

01:13:18.360 The United States has the best economy in the world.

01:13:20.520 Okay, it does all those things despite a sclerotic national government that takes up 40% of

01:13:25.700 all the resources in the entire country.

01:13:27.240 We are falling apart.

01:13:27.260 I'm sorry.

01:13:28.160 We need to wake up.

01:13:29.680 Both of those things can be true.

01:13:30.700 Yes, they can be.

01:13:32.260 But a lot of people are just like very like pretending like it's not happening.

01:13:38.020 You have to dismantle the central government before you have this kind of divorce.

01:13:41.640 You cannot allow.

01:13:42.880 Yeah, because one region is going to control it.

01:13:45.060 And then you're going to have a war with one of the regions, just like you have with Ukraine.

01:13:48.640 I disagree.

01:13:50.860 My fear, I think, and I'm not saying you're saying this, but a lot of people instantly default to they think there will be a confederacy and a union, which is just nonsense.

01:14:00.860 That's a specific moment in history.

01:14:02.920 It's not indicative.

01:14:04.080 It's not.

01:14:04.620 It doesn't exemplify all the other civil wars and how civil wars happen.

01:14:08.320 What I fear actually happening is it's happening right now.

01:14:13.000 Donald Trump is criminally charged.

01:14:14.660 He's civilly sued by the state.

01:14:17.240 And these charges are by anyone who's paid attention.

01:14:19.400 They're bunk.

01:14:20.180 I will always shout at CNN in this regard.

01:14:21.920 Don't take my word for it.

01:14:22.980 Fareed Zakaria of CNN said this case in New York would not be brought against someone whose name was not Donald Trump.

01:14:28.020 Even MSNBC was saying, like, what is this criminal case?

01:14:31.900 It's not real.

01:14:33.280 The conversation we had last night on IRL was my argument with the Georgia case against Donald Trump.

01:14:41.300 And this is amazing.

01:14:42.860 The Georgia case is clearly bunk, clearly nonsensical.

01:14:46.360 They're criminally charging Trump's lawyers.

01:14:48.660 When this happened, I said Donald Trump should remain in Florida and he should say, I don't know what these charges are.

01:14:54.240 They can send the paperwork to the state of Florida who can then review to make sure it's legitimate.

01:14:59.660 And if it is, we will answer them.

01:15:01.740 New York files charges, criminal charges.

01:15:04.200 They're clearly fake.

01:15:05.980 A misdemeanor charge upgraded on a mystery underlying crime that no one to this day knows.

01:15:12.680 Pulling it beyond the statute of limitations and turning it into 34 felonies.

01:15:16.160 And then they charge Trump and Trump gleefully gets on his plane and flies to New York to answer the charges from from fake, not like non-entity authority.

01:15:25.260 So what should have happened locally would nullify it, basically.

01:15:28.040 And so what the conversation we had yesterday was that states must enforce malicious prosecution protection laws to prevent other states from manipulating and attacking their residents for political reasons or otherwise.

01:15:39.620 In this instance, what would happen is the I think Mike Benz was was Mike Benz was talking about this or was the night before was I can't remember.

01:15:46.640 Anyway, what would happen is New York files criminal charges.

01:15:50.880 We all recognize them as clearly bunk.

01:15:53.660 Trump then says, I will be filing a claim under Florida malicious prosecution protection laws.

01:15:59.220 It would go to the it would go to the state courts and to the governor's office.

01:16:03.080 They would review it.

01:16:04.380 And if the courts determined that it was malicious, then they would tell Trump do not answer to these and they will have to sue the federal government to bring marshals in if they disagree.

01:16:13.180 The fact that Donald Trump is a Florida resident and I get it because he was a resident in New York before is criminally charged for something that is clearly fake shows that this is already begun.

01:16:23.900 The fact that we no longer rely on states to protect its own residents and that states must now create some kind of enforcement protection against the malicious prosecution from other states shows it is already begun.

01:16:34.340 If we are to move forward as a country, the solution being proposed is that the states start to fragment each other and even set up a border barriers to prevent law enforcement from other areas without the authority coming and kidnapping citizens from other states.

01:16:48.080 Yeah.

01:16:48.860 Decentralization.

01:16:49.420 What they've done to Donald Trump is throwing a match onto the tinder pile that is national divorce.

01:16:57.300 The only solution now, considering half the country believes Trump's innocent, half says he's not.

01:17:03.040 But again, I'll throw it to CNN.

01:17:04.800 The only solution now is that Florida reject the authority of New York and defy by force any attempt to remove Donald Trump from their state.

01:17:12.520 The problem then is, if Trump wants to go and campaign in the United States, any state that's aligned with New York will immediately arrest and extradite him back to a state he does not reside in.

01:17:22.740 This is the tinderbox beginning to light up.

01:17:25.980 And it definitely is.

01:17:27.820 I mean, I might not agree with all the specifics that you said, but it certainly, I mean, we need to open our eyes that we're turning into a banana republic.

01:17:36.180 Which specifics?

01:17:38.060 That necessarily another state is going to extradite to New York.

01:17:44.320 I mean, I don't know if we're necessarily at that point.

01:17:47.920 But I do find your idea of Florida, like refusing or protecting its own citizens, very intriguing.

01:17:58.240 And it does go back to the original idea of federalism.

01:18:02.260 And that is the dramatic reversal of where we are right now, where if you live in Colorado and you're accused of a crime in Illinois, Colorado will do nothing to protect you.

01:18:11.480 The feds will, they'll say a warrant was issued in this state, Colorado will either have its state police arrest you, and then you will be extradited.

01:18:20.280 You'll be sent into a transport or Illinois will pay for it, or federal marshals will come in to take you and bring you to Illinois.

01:18:26.300 But now that we're seeing abject malicious prosecution that is recognizable by more than half the country and even major cable networks, this creates a very, very dramatic and insane circumstance.

01:18:36.580 If Trump didn't answer to that indictment, they would seize all of his properties, no question, nullify ownership of them and say he's a fugitive from the law in New York.

01:18:46.280 Then what?

01:18:47.380 They'd remove him from the ballot.

01:18:48.300 I will say, maybe it's a bit of a fantasy, but if there's a hope, it's that you have a vengeful Trump elected enabling someone like Vivek Ramaswamy as his sword and just slices through.

01:19:01.540 You know, maybe, I'm not saying it's going to happen.

01:19:03.520 It's probably a little bit aspirational, but, you know, that is a better chance than anything else on the table for the libertarians.

01:19:10.040 This is one of the reasons why I think, you know, we're talking about, you know, you mentioned the Libertarian Party might save your children or whatever.

01:19:15.960 I think if Trump doesn't win, there's not going to be a party for your children, Libertarian or otherwise.

01:19:19.700 I don't necessarily agree there, except perhaps to the extent, and again, I'm going to be the unpopular person at the table in saying that.

01:19:32.340 In the system that we're having now, I think it's absolutely vital that we exist, but I also have no problem with clearing the chessboard.

01:19:40.420 And then if you're talking about clearing the chessboard, well, then great, then we don't need the LP because we're starting afresh.

01:19:47.740 No, I agree with you.

01:19:49.420 I think the Libertarian Party is wildly important and we need competition in politics.

01:19:54.940 The issue right now is what you have, one of the highest ranking members of the DOJ stepping down to take a position in New York's local prosecutorial office to work for a man who outright campaigned on prosecuting Trump, who brought up bunk charges to do so.

01:20:10.980 The level of corruption here from the Democratic Party all the way down, and we're seeing it across the board.

01:20:16.160 Steve Bannon's going to prison.

01:20:17.500 Peter Navarro's already in prison.

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01:21:43.020 Did I mention that we care?

01:21:44.440 I mean, Debs ran from prison and got 20 percent of the vote.

01:21:49.140 Yeah, but OK, I'm going to bring up something entirely different and you could just shut me up if you want to.

01:21:54.220 My husband's used to doing it all the time.

01:21:55.900 So, you know, feel free.

01:21:58.380 The fact is, you know, we are talking about the big hypocrisy in prosecuting Trump.

01:22:03.100 And I actually absolutely agree with you there, even though I'm not a Trump fan whatsoever.

01:22:07.700 But there's another hypocrisy we're not talking about.

01:22:11.080 So a lot of Trump supporters will be talking about election interference and how the elections are rigged.

01:22:17.120 And you want to know what?

01:22:18.240 I agree with him, but he's ignoring the fact that his party and himself and the Democrats are absolutely complicit in rigging elections every single time against third parties because they are just seeking to entrench their own power.

01:22:37.240 They do everything they can to collude with each other to keep us from having alternative voices.

01:22:46.540 So while I do while I do agree with him, with all of his complaints of election interference on one hand, on the other hand, I'm like, boo hoo, I don't know how that feels at all.

01:23:01.180 So until he starts becoming a bit more consistent about the fact that he is absolutely complicit in his party and in himself, he's made no promises about having a more fair,

01:23:17.040 representative system. Again, it's crocodile tears.

01:23:20.140 I half agree and I half think that's a communist argument.

01:23:23.040 I've never been called a commie before. So this is the idea that because the two dominant political parties aren't actively helping.

01:23:30.080 I'm not saying actively helping. I'm saying not actively hurting.

01:23:33.340 And there's why not? If I'm if I'm a private entity, now I'm in competition.

01:23:36.860 I'm not helping my my my rivals and I have no obligation to do so.

01:23:39.880 In fact, the government's not supposed to be a private entity.

01:23:42.920 I have political parties are private entities.

01:23:45.440 They're seeking to get their candidate elected.

01:23:47.640 And I believe it is the obligation of a private entity to combat its competition.

01:23:52.080 Not once they're in a government position because they're using laws.

01:23:57.000 They're not using competition.

01:23:59.480 It is. It is a communist argument, in my opinion, that the Republican Party or Democrats should be supporting their political rivals.

01:24:05.160 I did not say so. I didn't say if help the idea that the Libertarian Party says we want to be on the debate stage.

01:24:11.160 It is. Did I mention the debate?

01:24:13.880 I'm giving a specific example of any circumstance where they've they've colluded together to remove.

01:24:18.660 And the debate stage is a really good example. I don't care about the debate.

01:24:21.180 They've tried to keep people. They've tried to keep the party off the ballot, off the ballot, off the ballot, off the ballot.

01:24:25.560 And they should. Oh, that is absolutely insane.

01:24:27.860 But they're using their state, their state position. They're using their governmental positions to do it.

01:24:32.280 They're using their government positions, not their private.

01:24:32.660 They're not doing it just as a party. It's not the party's competing.

01:24:35.320 But there's no absolute answer, again, because it's none of it is under, at least under libertarian principles, none of it should be working this way at all.

01:24:42.080 Well, I mean, we shouldn't be having democracy. I agree with you.

01:24:44.960 And so, I mean, you have this made, the Libertarian Party has a major problem that the Libertarians, Libertarians are anti-democratic, right?

01:24:51.120 We don't believe in democracy in the slightest.

01:24:52.840 Oh, democracy sucks.

01:24:53.420 Yeah. I mean, I don't know of any Libertarian theorist that actually defends democracy, right?

01:24:58.100 You get people in the Libertarian Party, but the problem is you get these people in the Libertarian Party who are like, of course you have to support democracy.

01:25:03.440 Have you read a book? Do you have you read?

01:25:06.700 And so, but the problem is because the Libertarian Party itself, by law, has to be a democracy.

01:25:12.900 Guess what?

01:25:13.700 Oh, I love it. It's so stupid.

01:25:16.280 Yeah, the Founding Fathers did not believe in democracy either.

01:25:18.460 No, they warned against it all the time.

01:25:19.980 The fact that we've lost that notion that the people in the United States have bought into the our democracy stuff, that stuff is straight up communism.

01:25:31.280 That's the exact same argument that Mao was making.

01:25:33.840 And you would know better than anyone else, Michael, if you want to speak to that.

01:25:37.620 But democracy is not – democracy is a tool.

01:25:41.000 Democracy is like a hammer or like a gun or like a truck, right?

01:25:45.940 What you do with it matters.

01:25:49.100 Just having it is not a guarantee of liberty, positive results.

01:25:53.600 It's a very – it's antithetical to liberty.

01:25:56.160 Yeah, it's antithetical to liberty.

01:25:58.040 I agree completely with you guys.

01:25:59.500 People don't understand.

01:26:01.040 My point is that – again –

01:26:03.240 He's speaking to the normies.

01:26:04.480 My point is like back to earlier – the point I made earlier today.

01:26:09.660 Most of the time, what you're actually going against, you think you're going against the government, but you're going against people that disagree.

01:26:16.660 Yeah, that's a hard one, I think.

01:26:18.580 And I struggle with this one myself.

01:26:20.280 But, you know, who am I supposed to be mad at here?

01:26:23.520 Yeah.

01:26:23.620 And I think you've got to get mad at the politicians first and foremost.

01:26:27.760 But if you – but, okay, the politicians are political entrepreneurs who are trying to compete in a market, and they're incentivized to give the market what it wants, to earn votes.

01:26:38.020 And so – not excusing the politician – but, you know, as libertarians, we recognize that everything flows from incentives.

01:26:45.080 And the system itself incentivizes all of this terrible behavior.

01:26:49.180 Well, what democracy is fundamentally is Chekhov's gun.

01:26:53.740 The gun is on the table.

01:26:56.100 Somebody is going to pick it up.

01:26:58.680 And in our self-interest, I want to be the one to pick it up because someone is going to – if I don't.

01:27:04.820 I get it.

01:27:06.160 I get it.

01:27:07.080 We do need a fundamental change.

01:27:09.520 But whether or not we believe in – well, we don't believe in democracy, but the fact is it exists.

01:27:14.820 What would I prefer?

01:27:16.080 I would prefer a more proportional representation system.

01:27:19.080 I want to point that again just one more time just to speak for the norms.

01:27:21.640 It's not that we don't believe in democracy.

01:27:23.480 Oh, I don't.

01:27:24.700 I don't.

01:27:25.460 We acknowledge what democracy is.

01:27:27.260 I don't believe or not believe in hammers, right?

01:27:30.220 They work for a certain thing.

01:27:32.000 And sometimes they don't work for a certain thing.

01:27:34.340 Try and use a hammer to eat your eggs.

01:27:36.660 You're going to have issues, right?

01:27:38.160 So maybe people need to think about –

01:27:40.240 I don't know.

01:27:40.680 I could picture it.

01:27:42.160 It's the one with the thing on the back that can – you could, but it's going to be hard.

01:27:45.640 It's not going to be easy.

01:27:46.040 But the point is you could possibly have people understand that.

01:27:51.700 Now, I'm not saying everyone or whatever or if you – again, I don't know the means to get to there.

01:27:56.800 But in theory, you could get people to understand that the tool is not the goal.

01:28:02.820 And sometimes democracy isn't what you want.

01:28:05.140 You listen to people talk now and they'll scream about, oh, we need to get rid of the electoral college.

01:28:09.260 And it's like, why?

01:28:10.540 And they don't know because the only thing they say is like, oh, well, because not everybody's vote counts and blah, blah, blah.

01:28:14.740 But the tool is made for a particular purpose.

01:28:17.180 You know, like a hammer is made to hammer nails.

01:28:20.420 The democracy is designed to allow you to rob people.

01:28:25.340 Yes, to oppress the minority.

01:28:27.180 No, that's not what it was designed for.

01:28:29.180 Because democracy was – the idea of democracy was not designed so you could extort people.

01:28:33.600 That is a result.

01:28:34.720 It was designed – I don't know.

01:28:36.080 The Romans were – or the Greeks were the first people to actually have a democracy, right?

01:28:40.280 Well, rather than to go back to the origins of democracy, I mean go back to the origins of the United States, which I think were very well-intentioned, right?

01:28:47.140 The founders failed, but they were attempting ultimately because let's look at what's happened.

01:28:51.520 But they were attempting something that was very aspirational, that was directionally about as good as you could be.

01:28:56.480 For that time, yes.

01:28:58.000 Right?

01:28:58.580 And it didn't work.

01:28:59.820 Okay, so I'm a scientist.

01:29:00.940 I'm an empiricist first and foremost.

01:29:02.280 Okay, we want to do something new.

01:29:04.740 What are we going to do differently?

01:29:06.340 What's going to work?

01:29:07.240 I don't want to just be a critic.

01:29:08.500 I think this is something that libertarians get wrong on.

01:29:10.040 It's very easy to be a critic because things suck.

01:29:12.240 Okay, what's your vision?

01:29:13.480 Be specific.

01:29:14.240 How are things going to work?

01:29:16.220 And so that's what – I'm interested in building this sort of positive alternative.

01:29:19.740 I have a vision.

01:29:20.660 I have a vision that I get elected president.

01:29:23.580 Tim Poolocracy?

01:29:24.200 And then I get a – like a 15-inch thick double-layered bulletproof plexiglass box that they just put – air-conditioned, by the way.

01:29:34.060 That's the Popemobile.

01:29:35.160 It's already been done.

01:29:35.940 The Pope – no, I'm talking about like a big box I will work in that everyone can watch me work.

01:29:40.760 And then I immediately order the withdrawal of all foreign troops back to the United States and the dissolution of these military bases and criminal charges for all of the corrupt officials just locked in this box everyone can see.

01:29:52.840 And I will live there for the rest of my life if it gets those things done without the CIA being able to kill me.

01:29:57.980 According to the Libertarian Party bylaws, it is still possible for them to put you on the ticket.

01:30:01.860 I will never actually run for office.

01:30:03.700 You could have stepped in on the last day and ran.

01:30:06.180 You could have been nominated.

01:30:07.580 I have no policies other than I'm going to arrest all of the corrupt government officials and withdraw our troops and then I give it back to you.

01:30:15.500 I'm out.

01:30:16.240 And then I resign.

01:30:17.040 I'm in.

01:30:17.820 I think you might have won on that.

01:30:19.480 I'll never actually run for office.

01:30:21.120 I just – these are the things I'm sick of the most is the abject corruption and criminal activities where they get away with it all day every day and the mass spending on American empire for some liberal economic order BS.

01:30:31.280 Yeah, see, one of the things that I would say after having been through this nomination process is that, you know –

01:30:37.940 I'm sorry.

01:30:38.840 There's a part –

01:30:40.200 That's all I have to say is I'm sorry.

01:30:42.500 There's part of the Libertarian Party that are kind of like major party wannabe types.

01:30:48.800 They just want to be able to do what these other parties do.

01:30:52.260 You know that's not me.

01:30:53.500 No, I know it's not you.

01:30:54.440 I'm not looking at you for that reason.

01:30:55.960 I'm just making it clear that I understand that the function of the Libertarian Party is way different than the function of the Republicans and the Democrats, and I am not looking to be just the new Libertarian Party.

01:31:07.840 There is a contention.

01:31:08.860 I won't name names exactly, but – well, I will.

01:31:10.880 I disagree.

01:31:12.020 I think the problem is, you know, Dr. Rechtenwald, they pulled a backroom deal on you.

01:31:18.680 I think so too, actually.

01:31:20.040 So for those that aren't familiar with what happened, Rechtenwald is winning.

01:31:25.640 I'm watching the tweets.

01:31:26.740 They're popping up.

01:31:27.360 First place, first place.

01:31:28.740 And then at the last minute, Mike Termott says, vote for Chase Oliver and I'll be the VP.

01:31:33.200 So it pushes all of his –

01:31:34.780 All of his votes, yeah.

01:31:35.760 And then the more popular candidate is now second place and loses, and you end up with three states so far rejecting the nominee because it was a backroom deal that put him in place.

01:31:45.600 Thank you.

01:31:46.160 But you guys, this is –

01:31:48.900 I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

01:31:50.280 So I'll say two things about this.

01:31:52.320 Democrat and Republican Party politics 101.

01:31:55.460 It's exactly what they do all day every day, work with me and we'll get the job done.

01:31:59.060 And then the other issue that really irks me with the vote for Chase Oliver is the Libertarian Party doesn't seem to care about votes.

01:32:05.680 They care about principles.

01:32:07.340 And not even necessarily real principles, but they're moral principles particularly depending on the subject of individual.

01:32:12.320 The Democrats say, what is the most popular issue with the average American?

01:32:17.740 They say, well, it's 52 percent says X on this issue and 40 percent says – OK, we adopt the 52 percent issue if it aligns with certain background ideologies.

01:32:25.760 So the party platform for the Democrats and Republicans get to release every few years and they'll say, this time around we're really concerned about immigration.

01:32:32.640 Why?

01:32:32.940 We're going to get the most votes from it.

01:32:34.140 It's what the American people want.

01:32:35.580 The Libertarians get on stage, take their pants off and say we should be allowed to be naked.

01:32:38.940 I'm being crass here, but the Libertarians will come up and say things that are deeply unpopular because it's the right thing and they'll earn no votes because of it.

01:32:47.900 And they think it's the default position like the open borders thing.

01:32:52.340 They do not analyze the thing very closely.

01:32:55.320 They don't understand property rights and so they go with open – they equate free trade with the free movement of people, but these are not the same thing.

01:33:04.540 He and I disagree.

01:33:06.180 They're not the same thing.

01:33:07.060 Well, he and I disagree, so this is funny because –

01:33:09.860 I think that people misunderstand what the inside of the Libertarian Party and they – because basically there's massive divides between left and right inside of the Libertarian Party.

01:33:20.180 A lot of people don't understand that when that guy got naked on the stage that they like to share all the time, that guy was a lefty, libertarian, communist type of guy.

01:33:27.460 And he did that specifically to embarrass and drive away the social conservatives and the Mises caucus people who were coming in.

01:33:36.060 And so you have this complete division where there's people in one camp or the other.

01:33:40.600 And by the way, inviting Trump, same exact thing from the other side, all the people tearing their hair out are all the people, you know, that – like the naked guy.

01:33:49.740 And then they had this contest effectively that who could exhibit the most TDS symptomology.

01:33:56.080 That was what happened.

01:33:58.060 To be fair, Alex Stein also took his pants off on stage at the Libertarian Convention too.

01:34:01.640 Yeah.

01:34:01.900 Yeah, but to do – I want to do some –

01:34:03.260 But we enjoyed that when he did it.

01:34:04.980 Rule one, don't be unattractive, you know.

01:34:07.120 Absolutely.

01:34:07.600 There's a little bit more of inside Libertarian Party baseball here.

01:34:11.920 I'm not going to get into the back deal thing, the back door deal things and things like that because I really just –

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01:35:40.780 Did I mention that we care?

01:35:44.400 Can't as a national party officer.

01:35:46.200 But I will say as a national party officer that I do think, and I'm not saying things would have been differently.

01:35:53.060 I'm not saying that Chase wouldn't be our nominee.

01:35:56.060 And I am going to say, however unpopular it is, again, I'm an officer of the party.

01:36:00.540 If I have the opportunity to, I will be voting for our nominee.

01:36:03.980 And I do support our nominee because I support the party.

01:36:07.220 But I do think the delegates were not given all the information they were entitled to have.

01:36:11.600 Because in the last round, it was pretty much 60-40 between Chase and Noda.

01:36:17.380 And a lot of the people who did not vote Noda were told that if they voted Noda, we were going to lose ballot access in all of these states.

01:36:28.020 Well, I did some research before I came on the show.

01:36:30.400 And guess how many states rely only on presidential vote totals in order to retain ballot access?

01:36:37.560 Two.

01:36:38.200 One.

01:36:38.700 One?

01:36:39.120 Okay.

01:36:39.280 And that is Kentucky.

01:36:40.380 There is another one, this term that is, which is Georgia, but that's because they didn't retain it with a state, a different statewide office.

01:36:49.780 Most states have multiple ways that they can retain access.

01:36:54.580 And it's usually a statewide candidate.

01:36:56.920 If they fail to do it with their statewide candidate, that doesn't mean that they rely solely on president.

01:37:03.840 If they are, it's because they failed to retain it another way.

01:37:07.960 There is only one state, Kentucky, that has that as its sole way to retain access.

01:37:17.560 And I think most delegates on the floor thought differently.

01:37:20.720 And the reason I know that is I'm reading Colorado's post where it says that Colorado, you know, refused to put them on the ballot.

01:37:27.440 And all these people are going, way to lose ballot access for Colorado.

01:37:31.720 Let me tell you, Colorado ballot access has zero to do.

01:37:35.440 We don't have to run a presidential candidate.

01:37:37.220 We just have to have a thousand people in Colorado registered as libertarians, and we have permanent ballot access.

01:37:43.760 There was ignorance on the convention floor that was purposely perpetrated by some other delegates.

01:37:52.700 But this has to go to at least some of the blame here has to be on the Mises caucus.

01:37:57.480 The Mises caucus acted very hard line.

01:37:59.680 They pushed out people from the middle.

01:38:01.320 They didn't work the floor well.

01:38:02.700 They didn't put out information.

01:38:03.860 They didn't do opposition research.

01:38:05.700 All this stuff came out about Chase Oliver after the fact.

01:38:08.280 It was their job to do this stuff.

01:38:10.900 And so, you know, I'm not – there's got to be lessons learned and a recognition that there's room for improvement here.

01:38:18.000 To be fair, the Mises caucus was a little bit of hubris.

01:38:20.360 They thought Dave Smith was going to do it, and Dave Smith wouldn't.

01:38:23.540 Like, all of that other stuff, like, would have been a significant – because of his – just because of his –

01:38:27.120 He wasn't a shoo-in either, let me tell you.

01:38:29.060 I'll tell you that right now.

01:38:30.040 They dropped the ball, definitely.

01:38:31.300 What I'm saying is the reason the Mises –

01:38:32.520 I disagree.

01:38:34.040 Listen, you know that this had – there's a huge contingent of progressives that – why isn't Chase Oliver on this show?

01:38:41.780 Because these people –

01:38:42.700 He chose not to.

01:38:43.280 They hate – they think we're fascists.

01:38:45.360 Mises caucus pushed out New Hampshire for being too right-wing.

01:38:48.600 They said New Hampshire is too right-wing for the Mises caucus.

01:38:51.160 New Hampshire talks honestly about race.

01:38:53.680 New Hampshire talks honestly about issues.

01:38:55.320 I got to mention something.

01:38:57.080 That's got to be on them.

01:38:58.080 I'm a great opposition researcher.

01:38:59.560 We invited Chase Oliver.

01:39:01.680 So, I don't do the booking.

01:39:02.580 My understanding is that our booking team reached out to Chase Oliver two weeks ago several times.

01:39:07.600 Phil attempted to reach out.

01:39:09.360 Angela McArdle was on board and attempted to reach out.

01:39:12.200 There was no communication.

01:39:13.440 At the 11th hour, which I believe was yesterday, they emailed to decline that they would come on.

01:39:17.500 At the very last minute, Mike Termott, I guess, reached out and said, I really want to come on the show.

01:39:22.360 And he's actually only a couple hours away.

01:39:24.740 And then around, I think, like 11, word came in that he has a flag day thing already set up in Florida with a flight scheduled.

01:39:32.680 So, he's just not going to be able to do it.

01:39:33.480 Listen, you can't believe anything he says.

01:39:35.040 So, I don't know what he's saying.

01:39:37.240 Either way, you'd think.

01:39:40.820 The funny response from many of these people in Chase Oliver's camp is that I and this show and IRL are just irrelevant to anyone.

01:39:49.140 And I'm just like, I'm not trying to be a dick and brag, but I have two million Twitter followers, okay?

01:39:54.020 We put out this show.

01:39:55.560 We tweet out to two million people.

01:39:56.800 That's a platform for the LP and for Chase Oliver to say what he thinks.

01:39:59.520 Look, this makes me really mad because, you know, one of my arguments during the whole campaign is that I will get this media.

01:40:06.860 I will go on these shows.

01:40:08.780 And none of these other people, none of these other people, not only did they not do it, did they tear it down.

01:40:13.880 They had no opportunities in advance of this campaign.

01:40:17.060 So, that was one of my major arguments.

01:40:18.860 And here they have what they deserve, I guess, the majority that voted for him.

01:40:24.300 I blame Dave Smith with all due respect.

01:40:28.100 I mean it to be a little sensationalist because Dave's great and I respect his decision for not wanting to do it and all that.

01:40:34.320 But I do believe that if Dave was the nominee, he would have won.

01:40:38.400 Well, yeah, that's probably because it would have drawn more Mises caucus people to the convention.

01:40:43.260 That's probably what it would have done.

01:40:44.940 It's not just that.

01:40:45.580 I mean, this might sound a little, I don't know what the right word is.

01:40:48.840 Don't worry, I can handle it.

01:40:49.960 It's not about you.

01:40:50.700 It's about Dave Smith is friends with Joe Rogan.

01:40:53.440 Yeah.

01:40:53.680 I mean, Dave's been on Rogan's show like three times in three months.

01:40:57.780 That is the biggest media access.

01:41:00.340 And I don't mean to be crass or whatever to Joe, but let's just be real.

01:41:04.580 Dave Smith is a very funny and charismatic guy.

01:41:06.480 He's also very tall.

01:41:07.620 And he's on the biggest podcast in the world over and over again.

01:41:10.780 I just kind of feel like that would have bolstered the LP more than anyone.

01:41:15.360 Look, Gary Johnson did tremendous.

01:41:18.020 He was a governor, I believe, in New Mexico.

01:41:20.340 Then he runs for the LP and all of a sudden there's this massive attention.

01:41:22.720 And it's a big deal.

01:41:24.140 Dave Smith is a national level comedian friends with the...

01:41:26.740 And he's tall.

01:41:27.880 The tall one matters.

01:41:30.080 He's very tall.

01:41:30.760 I heard he's Jewish though.

01:41:32.660 Yes.

01:41:33.180 Do you think he could do okay?

01:41:34.580 He's Jewish?

01:41:35.000 Yes.

01:41:35.640 Since the evidence of television, height has mattered more and more and more.

01:41:38.800 So that aside, because I'm only half kidding, I just think Dave would have drawn massive national mainstream attention, appearing on Fox Business with Kennedy as often as he did, appearing on shows like mine, on Rogan more so.

01:41:51.520 I think that plays a huge role.

01:41:53.220 Plays a huge, huge role.

01:41:54.460 And Dave didn't want to do it.

01:41:56.180 I get it.

01:41:57.120 Like, this is what I was saying earlier about non-profits needing to pay a million bucks to get executive directors or more.

01:42:03.980 Dave Smith has a career.

01:42:05.360 He has a family.

01:42:06.160 He has obligations.

01:42:07.340 He has friends.

01:42:08.380 And the ask of him is to throw that all away for a ticket he will not win for the betterment of the party.

01:42:14.780 It puts him in a box too.

01:42:16.100 Right.

01:42:16.200 Like, he's outside of the libertarian box right now that almost puts him back in a box as just the libertarian guy, you know?

01:42:23.920 But that, I mean...

01:42:25.840 As one who took the bait, I can definitely sympathize with that view.

01:42:29.700 I think this would have resulted in...

01:42:31.040 I'm sorry again.

01:42:32.260 I think Dave Smith as the candidate would have resulted in one of the highest percentages the libertarian party has ever seen.

01:42:36.940 Completely agreed.

01:42:37.720 But I think also a properly run Mises caucus wouldn't have Chase Oliver as the nominee.

01:42:44.480 Agreed.

01:42:44.800 Agreed.

01:42:45.280 A lot of people pointed out they had no backup plan.

01:42:47.720 And they should have had a backup plan.

01:42:49.360 I'm not going to get into the Mises stuff.

01:42:51.060 But I will say that I do agree with you that I'm not going to get into Dave's personal reasons.

01:42:57.000 I'm not going to get into his personal life.

01:42:59.400 I believe in the great man theory of history.

01:43:03.440 And I do think it was a pivotal moment.

01:43:05.860 And that Dave could have done because of his unique positioning and his communication abilities and all of the connections that he had.

01:43:15.740 He really could have been a pivotal, pivotal, pivotal, you know what I'm saying.

01:43:23.180 Pivotal.

01:43:23.540 Yeah, pivotal.

01:43:24.380 It's a new word.

01:43:25.540 It's a new word.

01:43:26.340 I've just declared it.

01:43:28.520 Moment in American history.

01:43:30.100 And I think he would have gotten the nomination easily.

01:43:33.180 And I think he would have easily gotten the most vote totals that the Libertarian Party has ever had.

01:43:38.020 But his family, he had a child that had an illness.

01:43:40.720 I'm not judging him.

01:43:41.420 There was a lot of stuff.

01:43:42.120 I'm not judging Dave.

01:43:43.260 I'm just saying that I think it was a big lost opportunity, perhaps for very understandable reasons.

01:43:51.720 But I'm very personally disappointed.

01:43:54.260 But I understand.

01:43:56.000 But the fact is, the Libertarian Party is worth preserving.

01:44:00.020 You've got to give me my few minutes to pump the LP.

01:44:03.140 Please do not leave the party if you're not happy with the nominee.

01:44:07.260 And if you're happy with the nominee, work even doubly.

01:44:10.100 To his credit, Dave Smith was on the floor of the convention the whole time.

01:44:14.340 He was helping us trying to negotiate with Tremont.

01:44:17.440 And, you know, as Tremont basically went back on five promises he made to me during the course of the campaign.

01:44:24.140 And three seconds before he got up to the microphone to throw to Chase Oliver, he said to him, I asked him,

01:44:29.680 Are you going to endorse Chase Oliver right now?

01:44:32.760 You're not going to do that, are you?

01:44:34.220 No.

01:44:35.480 And then five seconds later, he did it.

01:44:37.340 Unbelievable.

01:44:38.240 I totally understand.

01:44:39.780 Politics is dirty.

01:44:41.060 Very nasty, man.

01:44:42.000 I totally understand Dave's position.

01:44:45.160 It's a lot to ask someone in terms of risk to take and things to give up for, you know, for life and politics is very, very difficult.

01:44:54.700 What I will say, though, is every Trump supporter is cracking a beer and cheering and having parties because they're like, we just won the Mises Caucus.

01:45:03.400 Yep.

01:45:04.000 I had a MAGA equals socialist son, right?

01:45:06.100 I got all the pictures of me.

01:45:07.220 I mean, Trump appreciates professional wrestling.

01:45:09.380 So I feel like, if anything, it's all a game.

01:45:13.080 The mistake he made at the convention was he should not have used a prompter.

01:45:17.460 If Trump came out there with no prompter, people would have been laughing.

01:45:21.820 There would have been booze and claps, but there would have been a lot of laughter.

01:45:24.620 He would have played the audience a lot better.

01:45:26.360 Instead, it seemed like he was just ignoring the audience.

01:45:28.060 Yeah, it's probably kind of dangerous for Trump to ad-lib on libertarianism.

01:45:35.120 Because he could have said, he would have been like, oh, they're booing.

01:45:40.680 People would have been laughing.

01:45:41.800 He'd be like, look at him.

01:45:42.820 He is a 99.9.

01:45:45.640 I don't know how many nines I want to add.

01:45:46.700 He's incredible entertainer.

01:45:47.640 I mean, this is the impression I got.

01:45:49.840 This guy is actually really good.

01:45:51.760 He's a great entertainer.

01:45:53.120 I want to say, Michael, I could take any amount of drugs and still roast Donald Trump.

01:45:57.560 Okay.

01:45:58.420 Here we go.

01:45:59.080 Company gate time.

01:46:00.480 If Donald Trump just came out there and went off script, it was funny when he said you can keep being losers and getting 3%.

01:46:07.820 That was funny.

01:46:08.620 It was kind, actually.

01:46:10.380 We don't get there.

01:46:11.120 Yeah, that's right.

01:46:11.860 He's a totally inflated numbers.

01:46:13.740 I know.

01:46:14.140 Especially with this election.

01:46:15.940 It's like 1.8 last time, right?

01:46:17.520 It's going to be .2.

01:46:18.580 Should we get our on-the-record guesses?

01:46:21.200 Anyone want to go on?

01:46:22.520 What's the percent that Chase will get?

01:46:25.260 .05.

01:46:26.300 If he breaks one, I'll be impressed.

01:46:28.900 Yeah, if he breaks one.

01:46:30.340 He's not going to get anywhere near one.

01:46:31.880 He's not going to get any close.

01:46:32.520 Don't even look at me.

01:46:33.420 I'm not going to do that.

01:46:34.540 You can't do that.

01:46:35.560 Because, again, I am here to just encourage people to have—I'm going to use a Hoppian phrase.

01:46:42.700 Hopefully, I don't screw it up like I did last time.

01:46:44.640 Have a low time preference and not just think five months ahead to this current election.

01:46:50.320 Oh, I mean, look, Chase Oliver is the New Hampshire candidate.

01:46:52.480 If that—what better evidence that you need to give up on any hope?

01:46:57.040 The Libertarian Party can't even—

01:46:58.440 Oh, you're doing Dante's Inferno.

01:46:59.980 Give up hope all ye here.

01:47:01.440 No, fine.

01:47:02.220 It's—you can't—like, it's that—I mean, I love the Rothbard egalitarianism as a revolt against Nature essay.

01:47:08.380 I come back to it all the time.

01:47:09.740 You can't just make nice arguments.

01:47:12.120 It's like—and this—it's this idea that if we—if people say that you could fly by flapping your wings, would you say, you know, that it's—

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01:48:42.180 Did I mention that we care?

01:48:45.740 It doesn't matter if it sounds nice.

01:48:48.020 Libertarian Party winning sounds nice.

01:48:49.860 We want to have these hopes.

01:48:51.300 It would be so great if we could have these national things happen.

01:48:53.780 But it's fake.

01:48:55.260 It's not true.

01:48:56.640 It's just not true.

01:48:58.460 There's been 50 years.

01:49:00.220 We know sociological, psychological, biological, all these reasons that it's literally not possible.

01:49:07.820 And it has to be said.

01:49:09.200 When people want to do impossible things, we have to say it.

01:49:11.840 We can't say just because we can't act like you're good intentioned if you want to jump off of a roof and fly by flapping your arms.

01:49:18.560 It's not true.

01:49:19.700 I think the Libertarian Party needs to focus more heavily on singular local races.

01:49:25.200 Oh, I agree.

01:49:25.920 We need to implement on a national level.

01:49:28.980 Well, from the national standpoint of the party, project decentralization and create more New Hampshire's.

01:49:36.040 You know, I think one of the faults with the decentralization plan is that it needs another element, needs centralized decentralization, needs concentrated decentralization.

01:49:49.640 So we need to get Libertarians into local offices in a concentrated way like they're doing in New Hampshire.

01:49:56.780 And New Hampshire is a great example of concentrating Libertarians in a particular locality, taking over the government, taking over these roles and implementing liberty minded policies.

01:50:07.960 This has to happen.

01:50:08.440 But there are millions of people who are pro-Liberty, pro-family, pro-reason, capable, competent people who are dominated in every aspect of their lives.

01:50:16.440 And all they have to do is get together.

01:50:18.600 And there's already proof that it's working.

01:50:20.780 You know, and this is how nations start.

01:50:23.300 It starts by a people coming together.

01:50:25.360 Your Jeff Dice got in a lot of trouble for this.

01:50:27.540 But blood and soil and honor and nature, these things matter to people.

01:50:31.400 You have to have a soul to yourself.

01:50:33.300 This is what America has lost.

01:50:34.500 This is what Vivek is very good at.

01:50:36.180 He says that America has to have a positive vision.

01:50:38.480 We have to be aspirational.

01:50:40.080 Okay.

01:50:40.280 And we've lost it entirely.

01:50:41.720 For those people who have it, we can still recreate it.

01:50:44.220 And it can still exist.

01:50:45.460 A new colonialism within the country.

01:50:48.220 You've moved, right?

01:50:48.800 Or you are moving?

01:50:49.360 I'm very aspirational toward moving to New Hampshire.

01:50:53.160 Oh, I disagree.

01:50:53.660 You're working on a new think tank.

01:50:54.980 And I'm working on a think tank based on the Free State project.

01:50:59.160 Free State 2, West Virginia.

01:51:01.020 There you go.

01:51:01.600 Or landlocked, a landlocked country.

01:51:04.800 At least we're mountainous, easily defensible.

01:51:08.060 And New Hampshire is surrounded by...

01:51:09.440 They get high ground.

01:51:10.040 If you start...

01:51:11.060 I support competition.

01:51:12.140 Honestly, what we need to unite on is...

01:51:13.860 Well, you're war against New Hampshire.

01:51:15.220 That's what I want to know.

01:51:16.400 Leave...

01:51:16.760 I don't know if I can swear.

01:51:17.840 Leave crappy states.

01:51:19.180 Okay?

01:51:20.200 Let's all agree on the 45 worst states in America.

01:51:23.900 And if you've got to get out of there, if you're in any of those 45, you have to leave.

01:51:27.520 Can we reach unity?

01:51:28.460 Is there unity on this?

01:51:29.540 I agree.

01:51:30.740 A lot of people say Florida and Texas.

01:51:32.840 And I disagree.

01:51:35.200 To a certain extent.

01:51:36.260 I'm glad.

01:51:36.880 It's crappy?

01:51:38.400 Yeah.

01:51:38.720 As bad...

01:51:39.720 A lot of people think Texas and Florida are the place to go.

01:51:42.000 Oh.

01:51:42.120 Yeah, that's right.

01:51:42.380 Oh.

01:51:42.700 I'm originally from Florida, so I've got a heart for Florida.

01:51:47.260 I say West Virginia.

01:51:48.380 And that's why I'm here.

01:51:50.180 We're really lucky.

01:51:51.100 Riley Moore just won the primary for...

01:51:53.460 I think we're in Congressional District 2.

01:51:55.400 Is that what it is?

01:51:55.920 I think it's 2.

01:51:56.980 He's great.

01:51:57.920 He's...

01:51:58.560 And we had...

01:52:00.600 Who was the rep before him?

01:52:02.080 Why am I forgetting his name?

01:52:03.060 It wasn't Mooney, was it?

01:52:05.020 I can't remember the name.

01:52:05.920 He was like a Ron Paul guy.

01:52:07.660 He was like pro-gold standard stuff.

01:52:09.720 The people in...

01:52:10.560 West Virginia used to be a Democrat state.

01:52:12.380 Manchin just quit the party and went independent because he knows he's not going to win.

01:52:15.720 He's going to have to retire.

01:52:17.060 And there's an opportunity here.

01:52:19.020 It's a really fascinating state.

01:52:20.340 The reason why it's an East Coast state with such a small population and lack of development

01:52:24.880 is the mountains.

01:52:25.940 It's beautiful.

01:52:26.860 It is.

01:52:27.780 When settlers came to the United States and started building, they were like,

01:52:31.900 hey, don't go that way.

01:52:33.040 You can't get your wagons up the mountains.

01:52:34.540 It's too difficult.

01:52:35.160 And so it remains less developed with a smaller population, but it's a massive state.

01:52:40.180 Tremendous opportunities thanks to modern technologies, infrastructure expansion, Starlink,

01:52:45.120 et cetera, to get low cost real estate to build.

01:52:48.940 And that's one of the reasons we're here.

01:52:50.540 We are able to get something like 10 times the land and property than we would have normally

01:52:54.820 gotten any other state.

01:52:56.360 Even, you know, like we looked at New Hampshire.

01:52:58.500 It's just way too expensive.

01:53:00.080 But you were mentioning before the show, you had like a 10,000 member militia that you

01:53:03.800 were now training or what?

01:53:05.280 How big was it?

01:53:06.260 Uh, 67.

01:53:08.480 It was chickens.

01:53:09.580 Yeah.

01:53:09.940 I did say it was a private security outside.

01:53:11.420 But it was all chickens.

01:53:12.240 Pretty intense.

01:53:13.180 Funny thing is like they were a chicken trained militia.

01:53:15.600 Okay.

01:53:15.820 We're on to something.

01:53:16.520 The funny thing, you say that, but like when you guys rolled up, I was literally out in

01:53:20.260 the driveway painting a rifle.

01:53:22.020 Oh yeah, man.

01:53:22.860 I saw that.

01:53:23.520 Yeah.

01:53:24.120 So I, I, I was chicken sized.

01:53:26.260 So Luke, Luke, Luke is on the show on, on IRL and he's saying like, you got to move to

01:53:30.500 New Hampshire.

01:53:30.800 You got to move to New Hampshire.

01:53:32.020 And then I was like, well, we'll take a look at the properties.

01:53:34.260 It's expensive.

01:53:35.180 And then Luke moves to Florida.

01:53:36.780 And so we're like, oh, okay, Luke.

01:53:38.420 Uh, we decided to go to West Virginia.

01:53:40.720 So the issue I took with New Hampshire outside of the price, it's got infrastructure because

01:53:44.880 the backhaul that goes up there with internet is really, really good, but you're

01:53:47.800 surrounded on every side by the, by entrenched wokeness.

01:53:51.380 I think there's very much helps.

01:53:53.280 So many of the people come from Massachusetts, like, and, uh, uh, like Phil and there's a,

01:53:58.900 one of the best state reps actually in New Hampshire, Tom Mannion moved from Massachusetts

01:54:02.960 credits Phil specifically for why he is there.

01:54:08.760 Nobody can ever say that I've never helped the libertarian party or the Liberty movement.

01:54:14.120 Yeah.

01:54:14.640 And so the, um, and this guy is a firebrand.

01:54:18.840 He's exactly the kind of guy you want.

01:54:20.480 He's a fit guy, ex-military, knows his economics, you know, uh, it led the charge for defend the

01:54:26.420 guard in New Hampshire, uh, Tom Mannion.

01:54:29.500 And, uh, and so, uh, you know, it, it helps, it helps.

01:54:33.840 I mean, North Korea and South Korea are very different.

01:54:35.840 They're adjacent to each other, you know, but the more you can cycle these kinds of things,

01:54:40.120 uh, um, so I actually think the ease of selection, similarly, by the way, and a lot of people

01:54:44.680 get uncomfortable about this, but I believe this strongly, we've got to drive the crappy

01:54:48.020 people out of New Hampshire.

01:54:48.960 We're not going to persuade all of them.

01:54:50.160 And so the diehard progressives, the people who want to trans their kids, the people who

01:54:53.860 want the big government, we've got to get them out.

01:54:55.900 Anyone that wants to like, say that that's a bad thing or that, that trying to pass laws

01:55:02.420 that are unpalatable to other people, F you, because you don't give a crap about passing

01:55:07.100 laws that are unpalatable to me.

01:55:08.320 I've had to move, I've moved two times to escape different governments.

01:55:12.280 So up yours.

01:55:13.360 I have a question.

01:55:13.960 Why not Vermont?

01:55:15.440 Uh, you know, honestly, it's partially just a, in game theory, what would be called a shelling

01:55:20.160 point.

01:55:20.640 It wasn't a focal point.

01:55:22.420 It's not so necessary that it was any particular state, so long as we reach coordination, the

01:55:27.900 coordination problem has already been solved.

01:55:29.360 It doesn't really matter if we drive on the right side of the road to the left side of

01:55:31.740 the road, but we need to agree.

01:55:33.080 Um, New Hampshire has been picked.

01:55:34.520 There's a 20 year headstart.

01:55:36.100 There's an entire infrastructure built up.

01:55:38.520 And so, you know, the, the, even if you think it was the wrong choice, it wouldn't really

01:55:42.760 matter at this point because you're, you're not, it's going to be much harder to start

01:55:45.820 over from scratch.

01:55:46.360 You're going to be 20 years behind.

01:55:47.600 I think it takes time to work your way through the ranks.

01:55:49.840 I tell you, that's the reality.

01:55:50.800 I think there's only one thing the libertarian party needs to do to win, get as many LP members

01:55:55.900 in police departments.

01:55:57.460 I'm not kidding.

01:55:58.660 Yeah.

01:55:59.080 That's, that's, that's where enforcement starts and stops.

01:56:01.360 Imagine if the LP infiltrated the NYPD and 73% were libertarian party advocates and they

01:56:07.640 kept their liberty minded stuff to only when it mattered, they'd be like, okay, we're going

01:56:10.860 to drum up false charges.

01:56:12.500 Every single cop says no.

01:56:13.480 Well, Chaz was the most successful anarchist movement this decade.

01:56:16.080 Their farm was truly inspirational.

01:56:20.600 I mean, you know, this is like, this is also why I kind of disliked the, oh, the civil

01:56:23.220 war.

01:56:23.460 They're going to crush you.

01:56:24.140 Dude, people took over Seattle with like a knife and they're like, you don't have to

01:56:30.880 worry.

01:56:31.000 You don't have to worry about the U S.

01:56:32.360 You can have it.

01:56:33.380 The rest of the world.

01:56:34.380 The rest of the world.

01:56:35.240 No, legit with no weapons, far leftists took over a police department, shut it down, secured

01:56:41.040 several city blocks and then came in with rifles.

01:56:44.400 Yeah.

01:56:44.620 Yeah.

01:56:44.840 If the, if anything deemed right wing would have tried that any group deemed right wing,

01:56:48.820 they would have been crushed.

01:56:50.520 I, I, I don't know that I agree with that.

01:56:52.580 Oh, I think so.

01:56:53.640 I don't know that I agree.

01:56:54.380 I hear a lot of people say it.

01:56:55.500 I think the issue is the right doesn't do those things.

01:56:58.180 That's it.

01:56:58.620 They just don't.

01:57:00.120 So, so if they did, the left would crush them.

01:57:02.660 Oh, I disagree.

01:57:03.180 In New York, why is it that the Proud Boys go to prison and the Antifa got away?

01:57:07.160 Cause Proud Boys cooperate with cops.

01:57:09.100 The cops showed up to a fight between Antifa and the Proud Boys.

01:57:12.700 Antifa said, screw you and ran full speed.

01:57:14.960 And then the Proud Boys were like, here, officer, here's my name, information, address, date

01:57:18.080 of birth.

01:57:18.560 And they went, thank you.

01:57:19.440 Then the cops came back and said, these men are all going to prison for four years.

01:57:22.460 And then the Proud Boys were like, what about Antifa?

01:57:24.240 And they're like, we don't know who they are.

01:57:25.620 Bye.

01:57:26.600 So if, if the right showed up in black block, it wouldn't matter.

01:57:30.980 But if you're, if you're in black block, no one knows your ideology.

01:57:33.460 There are, at these, at these events, there are communists and anarchists who completely

01:57:37.500 despise each other, but agree on dismantling the state.

01:57:40.140 And so they, they walk in unison.

01:57:42.360 You've, I, I, I've been covering, I covered these protests for, uh, for a decade.

01:57:46.840 I go down, I see a guy in black block.

01:57:48.600 I'm hanging out at direct action training.

01:57:50.340 And one guy says, we want total authoritarian control.

01:57:53.260 We want to shut down speech.

01:57:54.280 We want to control the internet.

01:57:55.100 We want to control trade.

01:57:56.160 We want to be in charge of everything.

01:57:58.340 I'm going to black block up.

01:57:59.600 I'm going to wear a black hoodie and a mask and go and join anarchists.

01:58:02.300 And the anarchists are like, we don't want government at all.

01:58:04.840 And I'm like, you're standing side by side by tankies.

01:58:06.820 And they're like, we know.

01:58:07.820 And I'm like, fascinating.

01:58:09.260 So if, if, if right winger traditionalists showed up and said, the only thing we, we

01:58:13.720 agree on is that we wanted, we think that the government's corrupt.

01:58:16.560 There's no question.

01:58:17.800 The issue is the right doesn't wear masks.

01:58:19.660 They don't get, they typically do not get into organized violence like Antifa.

01:58:23.280 So everyone just believes, well, I bet if the right did that, that I just don't, I

01:58:27.460 don't, I don't agree.

01:58:28.240 I think, or when the, when the far left stormed DC smashing windows, starting fires during

01:58:33.300 Trump's inauguration, and they actually got arrested and charged with conspiracy, they

01:58:37.240 won.

01:58:37.820 And then this, and then this, uh, DC had to pay them a million bucks.

01:58:40.980 The meme that everyone's a fed, I think is actually kind of harmful.

01:58:43.920 I mean, I don't encourage people taking actions that would get them in trouble or, or, or

01:58:47.940 hurt themselves or this kind of thing.

01:58:49.260 I'm not, I'm not trying to cheer that kind of thing on necessarily, but the idea that

01:58:52.700 this reactive kind of thing, it's a self-defeating meme complex where anyone you're the, the

01:58:57.420 right attacks the right and says, Oh, you're fed.

01:58:59.460 You're fed.

01:58:59.780 You're fed.

01:59:00.060 It's like, I, you know, but you're a fed, Jeremy, I think I'll know it.

01:59:04.540 I think, uh, I mean, we're all looking at, I'm finally going to come out.

01:59:08.240 These murals that are popping up all over the country, the pride murals that are being

01:59:11.360 destroyed.

01:59:12.280 The first thing I'll always say is like, I don't agree with destroying like Huntington, West

01:59:16.120 Virginia made a pride mural in their, in their drive in their, in their city.

01:59:19.500 So long as it's a local ordinance thing that's agreed upon and they, and they, they voted

01:59:23.600 for it.

01:59:24.120 Like then it's fine.

01:59:25.840 I mean, if they stole money for it, then there's gotta be some kind of accountability,

01:59:28.500 but of course they stole money for it.

01:59:31.380 I don't know that I agree that like a small town of a thousand people, it's, it's easy

01:59:36.080 to just steal the money to do it.

01:59:37.600 Right.

01:59:38.120 Do you think all 1000 people agreed?

01:59:41.540 That's not, that's not material to, I mean, you're talking about taxation in general now.

01:59:44.780 Yeah, I'm saying that in these places, even Charlestown, West Virginia, they vote for

01:59:48.360 progressive city council members.

01:59:49.920 Who's they?

01:59:50.740 The people of the city vote for progressive.

01:59:53.640 That is immaterial to how this is.

01:59:56.200 It's not immaterial.

01:59:57.300 That all has to do with consent.

01:59:58.820 This is communism.

01:59:59.660 You're doing the communist thing again.

02:00:00.720 No, I'm not.

02:00:01.420 I'm doing the, you must consent that the declaration of independence.

02:00:04.900 The idea that you've lost, you've lost.

02:00:07.020 What do you think about sit-ins?

02:00:08.180 Did you, were people who went in sit-ins or like, was Rosa Parks brave or was she a property

02:00:12.240 rights violator?

02:00:13.040 Well, Rosa Parks, you mean on the bus?

02:00:14.520 Yeah.

02:00:14.860 She was, wasn't, wasn't the story there, like an NGO was scouting out individuals that would

02:00:18.240 look good on TV?

02:00:19.080 Yes.

02:00:19.700 My point about, if we, if you have a system where we're all like, hey guys, here are the

02:00:23.960 rules.

02:00:24.180 And you go, I'm losing, but I deserve to win.

02:00:26.700 It's like, okay, that's communism.

02:00:27.660 Get away from me.

02:00:28.640 You know, you're.

02:00:29.560 Which is why you're.

02:00:30.900 Everything I hate is communism.

02:00:32.480 I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I agree with, I agree with Tim.

02:00:35.720 The losers deserve to have free stuff.

02:00:37.700 Rosa Parks was an evil woman.

02:00:39.380 I'm agreeing with Tim Pool here.

02:00:41.160 Nobody deserves to have free stuff.

02:00:43.320 She's saying that that, that, that, that portion of the population, that part of the

02:00:46.700 did not consent are being extorted to pay for this.

02:00:49.700 I think, I think that, that's like a, I view that as leftist.

02:00:53.020 That's a leftist idea to me.

02:00:53.900 I don't understand.

02:00:54.580 I do think.

02:00:55.980 Consent is a leftist idea.

02:00:57.480 No, no, no.

02:00:57.860 You're making excuses on why you should get to take stuff from other people.

02:01:00.440 I don't want to take stuff.

02:01:01.720 She's saying nobody should be able to take stuff.

02:01:03.960 Nobody.

02:01:04.160 You have to be more.

02:01:05.320 Don't live there.

02:01:05.740 Yeah, don't live there.

02:01:06.340 You do have to be more acceptable.

02:01:07.320 What are you, what are you, what are you saying?

02:01:08.380 That I get to live in a place where other people have made rules, but they should abide

02:01:11.380 by the minority.

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02:02:10.700 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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02:02:37.520 Authority position.

02:02:40.600 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:02:42.440 That is not what I'm saying whatsoever.

02:02:45.020 We do have-

02:02:45.720 We're talking about Huntington, West Virginia, a very small community who elects a city council,

02:02:50.440 whether you like it or not.

02:02:51.360 And these are the rules everyone agrees to.

02:02:52.900 And then you're going, yeah, well, too bad.

02:02:54.900 I'm the loser, but I get it.

02:02:56.280 But you're saying everyone's, which means-

02:02:58.320 We're talking about this community.

02:03:00.080 Not everyone.

02:03:00.860 We're talking about this community.

02:03:01.700 That's where I said that democracy is a total wrong piece.

02:03:03.740 Let me finish.

02:03:04.880 The argument that-

02:03:06.480 I can't stand this argument.

02:03:08.480 This is-

02:03:09.040 I don't see the distinction between the millennial communists who are like, I deserve this,

02:03:12.960 and the argument that because I live here, want to live here, but I don't consent to

02:03:17.380 how the majority of people choose to live, I should have special treatment.

02:03:20.740 It's the same thing as these woke millennials.

02:03:22.360 You should move.

02:03:23.080 I agree.

02:03:23.700 You move.

02:03:24.120 You move to New Hampshire.

02:03:25.620 You move.

02:03:26.280 That's the ultimate solution.

02:03:27.900 You move.

02:03:28.340 You have a choice not to be a part of it.

02:03:30.580 And you're like, they're stealing from me.

02:03:31.720 But you're living here.

02:03:32.700 What are you talking about?

02:03:33.620 Well, you move.

02:03:34.280 You move.

02:03:34.560 You don't consent to be a victim simply because you popped out of a vagina at a specific geographical

02:03:40.100 place.

02:03:40.180 No, you can leave.

02:03:41.100 Everyone is born into a time and place.

02:03:44.020 There's no timeless sense of being a human.

02:03:46.620 Everyone is born into a particular time and place.

02:03:48.500 Of course they are.

02:03:49.000 And that does not give a right to violate your consent.

02:03:52.700 No, just because-

02:03:53.320 How can my-

02:03:53.800 You don't have-

02:03:54.240 This is part of, I think, when people who say this, I'm not trying-

02:03:56.960 You have to have children if you're going to say this, because this is just not true.

02:04:00.360 You have children.

02:04:01.300 You're going to violate their consent.

02:04:02.700 You have to have a positive vision for how you want to raise your kids.

02:04:06.640 You have to have-

02:04:07.440 I'm not talking about children at this point.

02:04:09.240 It's the same thing.

02:04:10.480 People are-

02:04:10.940 The point is, if you don't want to be extorted in a certain place, you leave that place.

02:04:15.940 I have a house.

02:04:17.240 I have a house.

02:04:17.260 That's like saying if you don't want to be extorted by the mafia, you move.

02:04:20.420 I don't believe that.

02:04:21.380 Yes, agreed.

02:04:21.740 Listen, I own a house, right?

02:04:23.380 Let's say I live in this house.

02:04:24.680 One day, I've lived here for 10 years, someone shows up and says, I'm going to sleep on your couch.

02:04:29.480 I say, sure, but that means turn the TV off by midnight because people are trying to sleep.

02:04:33.420 That means don't take the last ice cream from the fridge.

02:04:36.220 And they say, you're violating my consent.

02:04:38.560 I pay rent here and I should get to eat all the ice cream and turn the TV on whenever I want.

02:04:42.400 I say, then you can leave.

02:04:43.560 But you own that property.

02:04:45.400 That is private property.

02:04:46.940 That's an entirely different thing.

02:04:47.960 If you were popped out and appeared in a culture that had rules, you can go somewhere else and find something that works better for you.

02:04:56.540 And the idea that you as the minority can force everyone else to live the way you want is communism.

02:05:01.200 No, nobody is claiming anyone is forcing anyone else.

02:05:04.800 She's just saying that she objects to it having been done.

02:05:06.800 That's all.

02:05:07.300 I don't think you have to move.

02:05:10.300 That's like telling a woman, if you don't want to be raped, then run.

02:05:15.580 Well, she should run.

02:05:16.400 I mean, whether or not she should run or not does not excuse the rape.

02:05:22.080 But it doesn't run.

02:05:23.400 If you choose to live in a place where rapes happen a thousand times a day versus live in a place where rape doesn't happen, then like you do and you could leave.

02:05:30.280 You I'm not.

02:05:31.060 Again, this isn't excusing.

02:05:32.520 I mean, you have to have.

02:05:33.900 You're talking about smart arguments.

02:05:36.240 And I get it.

02:05:37.500 Control.

02:05:37.680 It's in your sphere of control to leave.

02:05:39.760 But that doesn't make what is happening to you.

02:05:43.140 Right.

02:05:43.640 That we're arguing to.

02:05:45.100 Yeah.

02:05:45.540 It gets complicated here because you're always going to have my front door.

02:05:50.860 But that doesn't because I'm an intelligent person.

02:05:54.720 But if I chose not to lock my front door and somebody robbed me, it's still wrong that they robbed me.

02:06:00.980 But at the local level, there's always going to be norms.

02:06:04.020 There's always going to be some sense of democracy at the local level.

02:06:07.900 There will be some sense of democracy.

02:06:09.820 Even as someone who's anti-democratic, I completely accept that there's going to be some sense of democracy at the local level.

02:06:14.580 Which means that we're defining democracy differently.

02:06:16.980 I will always be accepting.

02:06:18.220 There's going to be some consensus, basically.

02:06:19.960 Social contract.

02:06:20.920 Yeah.

02:06:21.760 We're defining democracy different.

02:06:24.540 If me and my friends agree to pitch in to buy pizza every Friday night for 10 years, and then one day you show up and start complaining that you have to pay rent and you're being stolen from because we order pizza on Friday nights.

02:06:37.740 We say, get out of my house and go somewhere where they don't do this.

02:06:41.420 Are you then, though, forcing them to?

02:06:44.560 You have no right to civilization.

02:06:47.520 You can go live in the woods, buck naked with a pointy stick.

02:06:50.560 You do not have a right to take other people's stuff just because you think you're an individual.

02:06:55.060 I'm not advocating for taking anyone's stuff.

02:06:57.880 Have a legitimate objection.

02:06:59.060 Which is if we try to build something private, if we try to build something in the middle of the woods, the government will still come and stop.

02:07:03.880 I understand the conundrum of civilization has developed to a point where we have satellites and boundaries everywhere.

02:07:09.900 My point is I do not accept – and this is the libertarian –

02:07:13.520 I mostly agree with you.

02:07:14.500 I know.

02:07:15.860 You have the open borders faction of Chase Oliver and the Ellis Island model.

02:07:20.000 The idea that me and my friends and family can establish a social agreement between each other.

02:07:25.740 We can set up our boundaries for what we accept and what we don't accept.

02:07:28.940 We don't want clowns coming in here making lewd balloon animals.

02:07:32.300 And then someone shows up and says, I'm going to live here and pay rent.

02:07:35.400 And now because I have not consented to what you do with the rent money I've agreed to pay you, it's so too bad.

02:07:42.460 Go move somewhere else.

02:07:43.640 It's not the same thing as rent.

02:07:45.020 And you keep saying we as if it's everybody.

02:07:47.500 It's never been everybody.

02:07:49.340 There's always going to be some kind of collective –

02:07:52.300 Oh, there's going to be social norms.

02:07:54.360 And then you enforce them through nonviolent social means.

02:07:58.660 You enforce them through –

02:07:59.460 Agreed.

02:07:59.840 There's going to be projects that require people to pay some money towards.

02:08:04.860 Right.

02:08:05.120 If they all –

02:08:06.300 When we say all of them –

02:08:07.260 So if you don't volunteer to that, get out of that area.

02:08:09.780 But then a child's going to be born into that and there's going to be born into that set of rules.

02:08:13.120 Let's try this again.

02:08:14.080 If I own a house and everyone has to pay $100 a month rent to me –

02:08:17.900 You own the house.

02:08:19.020 Yes.

02:08:19.480 And you invited them in.

02:08:20.940 And by a matter of circumstance, they now live here.

02:08:24.360 Let's say it's the child of one of the people who lives in my very large house.

02:08:27.160 They come of age and they say, I understand that I live here and I have to pay rent, but I don't like that using my rent money to, I don't know, install solar panels.

02:08:34.520 I say, you are now 18.

02:08:36.220 I agree.

02:08:37.460 There's the door.

02:08:38.500 And I don't have a problem with that because that is your private property.

02:08:41.640 But we can find municipalities where we could trace back the instantiation of the municipality to be essentially a fully contractual private property agreement.

02:08:50.380 So are those municipalities –

02:08:52.200 I would have to see that because –

02:08:54.900 So it's all about –

02:08:55.700 But even –

02:08:56.200 There's a point at which this private – public thing goes – it gets very –

02:09:00.580 I think the big problem with Tim's position is that we're in an oligopoly where you're not allowed to compete.

02:09:08.640 And this is what makes the –

02:09:10.440 Now I understand that.

02:09:11.060 Where it sort of falls apart is that, well, I can't go do my own thing and I can't –

02:09:15.240 You can.

02:09:16.100 If it becomes totalitarian, there's no outside of it.

02:09:19.740 And, Jeremy, this gets to what we talked about last night.

02:09:22.280 If you want to talk about this hypothetical municipality where you can trace back the ownership and there actually is consent and all of that, I don't agree with you that there's some of them that can.

02:09:30.960 You're all communists.

02:09:31.920 But I am going to pretend like you are correct.

02:09:35.640 If, in fact, there is that collective ownership because we got into this with HOAs and I don't believe covenants run with the land just like Rothbard did not, then there is also collective liability which does not exist.

02:09:48.380 With ownership comes liability.

02:09:50.400 You have a framework under which literally nothing can be constructed, built, or done, and it's completely untenable.

02:09:56.620 People are going to need to live near one another.

02:09:58.600 People are going to need sets of rules.

02:10:00.120 Those rules are going to exist outside of themselves and there's going to be a framework that perpetuates them over the area.

02:10:05.420 This is just literally unavoidable.

02:10:07.560 And thinking that this is unavoidable is completely utopian thinking.

02:10:10.620 And I agree with you under private property.

02:10:12.420 I absolutely agree with you.

02:10:13.880 All right.

02:10:14.560 All of you communists.

02:10:15.600 Oh, I got him to say.

02:10:16.620 Communists.

02:10:17.440 Whatever.

02:10:18.240 You're all communists.

02:10:18.780 He's now a valley girl.

02:10:20.140 Of course it's.

02:10:21.980 Navassa Island.

02:10:23.580 Uninhabited.

02:10:24.500 Claimed by Haiti.

02:10:25.340 Not a single person lives there.

02:10:27.000 You're all communists.

02:10:28.300 Build a boat and go live in the wilderness.

02:10:29.800 Have you had Chad Elberwecki on this show?

02:10:31.840 He built a platform in international.

02:10:33.840 Oh, Sealand, right?

02:10:35.260 Sealand is another example of this phenomenon.

02:10:37.720 But there is a guy who did this recently.

02:10:39.120 His name is Chad E. something.

02:10:40.840 I may have gotten his last name wrong.

02:10:42.600 He built an island.

02:10:44.080 He's a Bitcoiner.

02:10:44.780 Bitcoin Thailand Seastead would pull up the story.

02:10:47.700 And he built a Seastead in international waters.

02:10:52.500 Was living there with his girlfriend or his wife.

02:10:54.960 And the United States government called up Thailand.

02:10:57.680 They sent in the armed forces.

02:10:59.320 It was complete defiance of all international law.

02:11:02.160 So this is why feasible strategies have to be taking over existing systems, existing power

02:11:09.340 structures, building parallel structures, building parallel.

02:11:12.420 I get it.

02:11:13.080 My point is, and I want to make this point.

02:11:15.180 You're all communists.

02:11:16.440 I have made the argument numerous times that anyone can go live in the wilderness.

02:11:20.600 And they always say, but we live under – there are uninhabited islands where I guarantee – I

02:11:24.980 will, in fact, I will give you $20,000 to set up your little colony on an island.

02:11:28.520 No one will bother you for the rest of your life.

02:11:30.340 I'm agreeing.

02:11:30.820 We live under anarcho-capitalism already.

02:11:33.240 We already live in anarchy.

02:11:34.780 Go achieve your society.

02:11:35.920 That's what I'm doing.

02:11:36.760 I'm not here to say – I'm not here calling these – everything out here is – I'm doing it.

02:11:41.140 I can't stand the argument that because I was born here, I can now, as the minority

02:11:45.920 position, upend the rules of your social order when, in fact, there are numerous places

02:11:50.460 you can go live without issue.

02:11:52.240 I am not claiming anything about social order.

02:11:53.440 I am claiming about coercive force.

02:11:55.860 And it's not coercive force for you to come into my home and demand of me.

02:12:00.120 Go live on the island.

02:12:01.180 That's your private property.

02:12:02.820 Public property.

02:12:03.420 You don't own the country.

02:12:04.780 You're making – this is a nonsensical argument.

02:12:06.840 You don't own the country.

02:12:07.280 Every libertarian thinker from Rothbard to Friedman acknowledged that property rights are bundled

02:12:11.120 of rights.

02:12:11.660 This idea of your property being this absolute kingdom under which there's no externalities

02:12:16.300 that affect neighboring properties.

02:12:17.760 The idea that my community has no right to protect ourselves from you trying to come

02:12:21.740 and take our stuff is an absurdity.

02:12:23.260 I'm not trying to come and take your stuff.

02:12:25.020 Here's what we'll do.

02:12:25.780 I'll set up a community, a small town, and I'll write in a piece of paper, it's here

02:12:28.980 by private now.

02:12:29.920 That's meaningless.

02:12:31.200 Completely meaningless.

02:12:32.100 You can't come in and you can't take my stuff.

02:12:34.620 It has to be your stuff.

02:12:36.600 You are operating from the presumption that you're –

02:12:39.380 If 1,000 people are all under a social agreement that these are the boundaries of our jurisdiction,

02:12:43.480 you don't get to take our stuff.

02:12:44.380 Oh, I agree with you.

02:12:45.740 And that is called a public jurisdiction.

02:12:48.240 No, that's not.

02:12:49.180 That's a private jurisdiction that's been agreed upon by your mythical thousand.

02:12:54.100 So an incorporated town is private now?

02:12:55.900 An incorporated town does not have the consent of everybody that lives there.

02:13:00.100 They can leave.

02:13:00.700 And they can – or the people can stop trying to –

02:13:05.160 No, if you're in the minority position, get out of my house.

02:13:08.260 When you go and buy –

02:13:09.680 It's not your house.

02:13:10.160 When you went and bought a property –

02:13:12.300 This is a lovely –

02:13:13.280 Stop, stop, stop.

02:13:15.340 This is literal communism, the idea that people can't own property.

02:13:18.820 The idea that –

02:13:19.400 The idea that 1,000 people come together and set a boundary for their town and community

02:13:24.700 have no right to it that is communist.

02:13:26.680 I actually said they did.

02:13:28.620 I said a town is not owned by anyone.

02:13:31.900 It's everyone's property.

02:13:33.600 Yeah, this is called common property.

02:13:35.280 This doesn't – this is not communism and this is not –

02:13:38.400 it is not a violation of property rights to have such a place.

02:13:42.640 Oh, and I agree, but he keeps shifting – sorry, I don't mean he –

02:13:46.800 There is a town –

02:13:47.680 You are shifting the –

02:13:48.620 There is a town where numerous people each own portions of the boundary and jurisdiction

02:13:53.200 of that town.

02:13:54.440 You, as a minority, do not have a right to tell those people how to live and what to

02:13:57.820 do with their money.

02:13:58.560 I don't –

02:13:58.800 And if you don't want to pay rent to live in that place, you can leave.

02:14:02.660 You are not talking about people who all consistently consent to every single thing.

02:14:08.820 If you do, then fine.

02:14:11.260 That's immaterial to the fact –

02:14:12.880 It's not immaterial.

02:14:14.200 I'll finish the point.

02:14:16.300 There is a small jurisdiction of a thousand people that have decided this is our jurisdiction.

02:14:20.700 I own parcel A, you own parcel B.

02:14:22.800 Fine.

02:14:23.200 Someone is born there and then says, I represent 10% of the people here and we do not consent

02:14:28.380 to how our money is being spent.

02:14:29.560 They say, we have a social order and a contract that if you don't like, you can voluntarily

02:14:33.340 choose to leave and not give us money anymore.

02:14:35.440 But you have no right to live here under our rules in our jurisdiction unless you are paying

02:14:40.420 what we all agree to pay.

02:14:41.980 That's called rent.

02:14:43.420 I do not have a problem with rent.

02:14:45.940 I don't have a problem with this hypothetical that you just constructed.

02:14:49.620 And you can move.

02:14:50.200 I chose to live in a place out of – how many different cities are there in the United

02:14:54.200 States?

02:14:54.480 Hundreds of thousands, a million?

02:14:55.960 I chose one out of all.

02:14:57.320 There has to be some aspect in which I am consenting to something there.

02:15:00.600 I'm not a victim.

02:15:01.480 I chose that one out of the set of all the choices.

02:15:03.420 To the extent that I'm a victim, it's the extent to which other people can't compete.

02:15:07.240 To the extent to which – if you don't like it, leave is a completely valid moral

02:15:11.700 sentiment so long as the people saying it don't hunt you down anywhere you go.

02:15:15.820 This is the issue I have with communists and the woke left that the open borders libertarians

02:15:20.540 completely agree with them on.

02:15:22.320 This idea that a group of people can't come together and set a jurisdiction, the idea that

02:15:26.920 you have to create a private proclamation of ownership upon a single entity is meaningless.

02:15:30.740 If a group of people have a community, they have set rules and guidelines, and someone

02:15:35.100 else comes to that place, your consent is meaningless, completely meaningless.

02:15:39.020 The property is of those people who live there, and it's a communist idea that the property

02:15:43.180 is just arbitrary and owned by everyone.

02:15:45.340 And if I live there, you must get my permission.

02:15:47.760 No, you're not of our community.

02:15:49.380 You have no right to our land.

02:15:51.020 We'll let you live here.

02:15:52.100 You keep saying the R.

02:15:53.100 Leftists like Chase.

02:15:53.980 And the R does not remain static.

02:15:56.540 They sincerely do believe that foreigners have the same moral worth as their neighbors.

02:16:00.240 That's part of what's different about their psychology.

02:16:02.220 They believe that if there is a group of people who isolate 10 acres and put houses on it,

02:16:07.900 Chase Oliver believes that foreign individuals can come onto that property and live how they

02:16:11.260 want to live without...

02:16:12.160 But why?

02:16:12.840 This is where it gets to the heart of...

02:16:14.240 No, I don't think he believes that.

02:16:16.320 I don't think he believes that.

02:16:17.800 Here's what I can promise you he believes, because this gets to the heart of the difference

02:16:21.140 between left and right, which is about how you draw your moral circles and how much...

02:16:26.200 So the more right you get, the more you focus on your family and the things close to you.

02:16:29.900 The more left you get, the more universalist you get in your morality to the point that

02:16:34.040 you believe that dirts and rocks are as important as people or animals are as important as people.

02:16:39.300 But along that continuum, you reach a point where you believe that the stranger in China

02:16:44.200 is of equal moral worth to your neighbor or is at least much closer in worth than the

02:16:49.440 average person on the right believes.

02:16:50.720 And this is a real moral difference that affects our politics that's outside of libertarianism.

02:16:55.880 I'm going to make the controversial statement, and you can call me a commie leftist, and

02:16:59.980 I don't care.

02:17:00.600 I do think the person in China has equal moral worth to the person in this country.

02:17:06.400 I would kill 10,000 people in China to save the people in my town.

02:17:09.160 I don't care about them at all.

02:17:09.940 And it's not a political thing, perhaps.

02:17:12.400 Perhaps it's a religious thing.

02:17:13.980 Because I am a devout Christian who believes that every single person is made an ear to God.

02:17:17.580 Yeah, but they don't have a right to just move here, live on public property.

02:17:21.560 These are, in my opinion, actually objectively false.

02:17:26.860 Here's the God part.

02:17:28.180 Not the card part, but the moral worth.

02:17:29.380 Here's the issue we have.

02:17:30.040 Forget about the God part.

02:17:31.080 I think it's objectively true that some random person in China has equal moral worth to my

02:17:36.500 neighbor.

02:17:36.900 Yes, I do.

02:17:37.660 This was my immigration idea.

02:17:39.220 Which I think puts you on the left.

02:17:40.720 I'm not trying to like...

02:17:41.700 Oh, I'm insulted by that.

02:17:43.500 Let me read a chat here.

02:17:44.720 This is a good one.

02:17:45.000 I'm center-left.

02:17:45.640 I said that all the time.

02:17:47.280 Okay, I'm going to read this.

02:17:48.360 Don Allen says, Tim loves HOAs.

02:17:50.480 Tim will defend his HOA to the last breath.

02:17:54.500 When I'm looking at property, I check if there's an HOA.

02:17:57.560 If there is, I don't buy it.

02:17:59.160 The idea that I would go in and assert my rights over a private community or group of

02:18:03.640 individuals is communist.

02:18:05.320 It is the idea that...

02:18:07.180 This idea that either a single individual owns it or it's everyone's to have however

02:18:11.880 they want is communism.

02:18:12.980 The idea that where we exist right now and moving towards communism in the United States

02:18:17.500 is that there is a small group of people who created an enclave or what do you want to

02:18:21.440 call it?

02:18:21.800 They created a small jurisdiction.

02:18:23.600 They incorporated it and they say, here are our rules and our tenets to live here.

02:18:26.980 Totally fine with it.

02:18:27.920 That is collective property of that group of people, that small group of people.

02:18:30.680 The idea that the federal government can then come in and say, we're going to take people

02:18:33.680 from outside this country.

02:18:34.640 They're going to come in and you have to abide by what they want now.

02:18:38.580 Communism.

02:18:39.080 Yeah.

02:18:39.880 People have a right to band together.

02:18:42.220 The problem we face right now in this country is the expansion of population, the advancement

02:18:47.180 of technology.

02:18:48.120 And now we're getting to the point where it's becoming harder and harder to find unclaimed

02:18:51.340 territory where someone could just live.

02:18:53.060 But islands exist.

02:18:54.300 And not to mention, in the United States, perhaps it's very difficult.

02:18:57.500 But what really bothers me, and I will stress again, it is communism.

02:19:00.580 This idea that you are entitled to the rights, privileges, and protections of the United States.

02:19:04.380 If you don't like the military-industrial complex, you do have a choice to go to Mexico, where

02:19:09.160 I guarantee you can live in the wilderness and be completely unbothered.

02:19:11.920 And I also have a choice to live here and work to dismantle it.

02:19:15.720 Absolutely.

02:19:16.340 But that means you pay your taxes or you go to prison.

02:19:18.360 Roger Ver renounced his citizenship in 2014, arrested in Spain in 2024.

02:19:22.360 So this is a nice theory if the United States did this.

02:19:25.180 The United States regards its laws as global, retroactive.

02:19:29.320 Exactly my point.

02:19:30.420 That we've expanded to this point where it's becoming harder and harder to do, and I respect

02:19:33.640 that.

02:19:34.320 But there is still, you can live buck naked with no connections to anything in the middle

02:19:39.500 of nowhere.

02:19:40.000 That exists.

02:19:41.000 And there are people-

02:19:41.560 Only if you pay your property tax.

02:19:42.280 Or, you know, you can stop extorting people who live here, too.

02:19:46.260 So if you want to give me the option of living buck naked, you can call me.

02:19:50.700 You have no right.

02:19:52.140 Tim, wait, I got one for you.

02:19:53.400 I think you'll like this.

02:19:54.180 Okay.

02:19:54.440 So everything about the United States is the same.

02:19:56.160 We create five square miles of anarchy in New Mexico or somewhere.

02:20:00.220 And if you don't like it, you've got to go to the anarchy zone.

02:20:02.600 Okay, so we let the anarchy zone compete.

02:20:05.380 I think the United States becomes much more legitimate if you do that.

02:20:07.620 Not New Mexico.

02:20:08.380 I think between us and the Bitcoiners, we can buy five square miles and do this.

02:20:13.060 Right, but sure.

02:20:13.600 But it needs to be, like, the U.S. has to say that this is the anarchy zone.

02:20:17.320 Like, you can murder people.

02:20:18.680 It's anarchy.

02:20:20.020 Like, the United States will not attempt to enforce anything.

02:20:24.000 This is the anarchy zone.

02:20:24.960 And if you see this way, your choices as a United States citizen are, you either get the U.S. for all the good and bad, or you can at least choose the anarchy zone.

02:20:32.680 The U.S. should also drop the – you have to pay thousands of dollars to renounce your citizenship.

02:20:36.060 The U.S. should drop that as well.

02:20:37.220 It's not consensual.

02:20:38.360 But, yeah.

02:20:39.740 But otherwise –

02:20:40.380 But you were born here and you agreed to that.

02:20:42.300 So, forget the non-consensual.

02:20:43.680 You communists.

02:20:44.680 They have to let you leave.

02:20:45.860 No, they should – and this is a principle I'm comfortable universalizing – is that, yeah, if you let people leave for free, then you can otherwise say if you want to stay here, you have all these other obligations.

02:20:54.980 Yeah, but, you know, that's part of the social contract that you have to pay the leave.

02:20:57.820 There's an inverse of this.

02:20:58.800 I think you could argue – I think you can include that.

02:21:00.880 You can argue for it.

02:21:01.360 You're talking about a guy who – he had, what, like, hundreds of millions of Bitcoin or something?

02:21:05.800 I think we've just agreed everyone here is a communist.

02:21:08.200 If you were a destitute, homeless person on welfare, ain't nobody going to stop you from going to live in the woods.

02:21:14.260 Sure, yes.

02:21:15.060 If you want to drop out, this is – and I think dropping out makes a lot of sense compared to being politically active.

02:21:20.860 But to me, I'm someone who believes that great things are achievable.

02:21:24.180 I want to see humans build, do more advanced, interesting things.

02:21:29.120 I believe that I live an incredible life thanks to the entrepreneurs, capitalists, and intelligent people who came before me.

02:21:35.560 And I want that to continue.

02:21:36.820 It is entrepreneurs who make the world great and inventors and these kinds of people.

02:21:40.520 And I want them to be unfettered to continue to make the world better.

02:21:43.420 I want to make a point.

02:21:44.800 We're a little bit over, so I'll make one more point and then I'll give you guys each your last words.

02:21:48.900 Living in New York was – it's really interesting.

02:21:50.840 The Manhattan Bridge, the Williamsburg Bridge, the Brooklyn Bridge, the Queensborough Bridge, man, the Verrazano.

02:21:56.140 There's so many bridges.

02:21:57.580 And I paid nothing for any of them.

02:21:58.980 In fact, as someone who first moved there, I'd still paid zero to New York State, City, or otherwise, the Port Authority, so these bridges and tunnels could exist.

02:22:08.160 And I get to walk across them.

02:22:09.480 These things were built by people who invested tons of energy.

02:22:14.060 The agreement exists as such.

02:22:15.880 You get access to massive infrastructure that was built and paid for by other people's work and labor.

02:22:20.240 And here's what we expect of you.

02:22:21.580 If you disagree, you can leave.

02:22:23.240 You don't have to live in New York City.

02:22:24.160 New York City has a very high income tax, the highest income tax in the country because they have a state income tax, city income tax on top of the federal income tax.

02:22:32.020 California actually has the highest tax rate, but New York City has an income tax.

02:22:35.560 Don't want to live there?

02:22:36.240 You are free to go.

02:22:37.420 No one is forcing you to be here to pay these bills.

02:22:39.560 But if you want access to the things that we've built, we expect you to abide by the rules that we've set.

02:22:44.320 If you don't like that, you can leave.

02:22:46.500 It is fascinating how many liberal lefties I meet and libertarians who have this idea that I'm allowed to live upon your infrastructure, the shoulders of your giants that you labored for and paid for, and I don't have to pay those taxes.

02:22:59.080 Well, that's why I argued that this open borders immigration policy is just outrageous.

02:23:04.100 You know, you're asking people who have paid for public, so-called public property, to allow other people just to come and use that public property to put immense stress on those public resources.

02:23:16.500 It's outrageous.

02:23:17.660 And I would agree I'd prefer if the system was not this way and we had a better representational system.

02:23:22.900 But the issue is not what should be.

02:23:24.820 The issue is what is.

02:23:25.780 And what is so far is that very few people respect the shoulders of giants that we are all standing on.

02:23:31.880 To stand atop the Manhattan Bridge, a massive marvel of engineering and managerial power, inspirational to me.

02:23:37.760 And I'm like, and I didn't do anything for it.

02:23:39.880 It was humans who came before me who dedicated their time and energy and labor.

02:23:43.420 And many died in a lot of these great works.

02:23:46.040 The idea that you could come to that city and say, I shouldn't have to pay taxes now.

02:23:49.780 It's like, just go somewhere else.

02:23:50.920 Now, that presents a challenge in the massive expansion of state the United States is, in that no matter what you do, no matter where you go, no matter what you make, they demand a piece of it.

02:23:58.980 Even if you don't make money and you live in the middle of the woods and all you do is whittle little sculptures out of wood you find in the ground, it is actually law that you have to give 20% of those little figurines to the government because it's not about money.

02:24:10.880 This is true.

02:24:11.680 When people don't make monetary value, the state still demands 20% of their value or whatever the income tax rate is.

02:24:18.680 So, that being said, if you want to take the final word on that argument, and then we'll go around and give final thoughts.

02:24:23.240 Okay, perfect.

02:24:23.820 I don't – I think you just created a false dichotomy.

02:24:27.260 You said it's not about what should be.

02:24:29.200 It's about what is.

02:24:30.020 I actually think it's a little bit about both because I don't disagree with you that the fact is there are things that exist that have been paid for in the past through extortion by people back then.

02:24:45.520 I can't think we can call it we.

02:24:47.820 Maybe I get it.

02:24:49.240 Yeah, you get to stand on the Manhattan Bridge that you paid no money for.

02:24:53.720 Well, maybe – and I'm only throwing out a hypothetical here because I'm just rejecting your dichotomy – is that perhaps the people who want to use it now do need to pay an upkeep or a rent of some sort to be able to continue to use it and have its upkeep.

02:25:11.740 But I don't think they're responsible for the extortion that happened in the past that built it before.

02:25:17.960 Perhaps that's a potential solution.

02:25:20.020 That's not the only one.

02:25:21.520 I'm not discounting the fact that, yes, that got paid for by extortion of people in the past.

02:25:27.740 But I don't think we can completely separate what should be from what is.

02:25:34.080 And I don't think calling everyone a communist is a good way to handle the argument.

02:25:38.100 I'm the only one who's not a communist.

02:25:39.220 All right.

02:25:39.780 Listen, I'm going to prove that I'm not a communist.

02:25:42.160 Privatize everything.

02:25:43.680 Privatize the bridges.

02:25:45.000 Privatize the water.

02:25:46.440 Privatize everything.

02:25:47.520 Even if it comes to the air.

02:25:48.900 If air becomes a commodity that's scarce, privatize the air.

02:25:52.060 Amen.

02:25:53.000 And privatize immigration.

02:25:54.660 You want somebody to come over here?

02:25:56.380 You sponsor them.

02:25:57.480 You put them up somewhere.

02:25:58.720 You give them a job.

02:25:59.700 Otherwise, they don't come.

02:26:01.460 And you got to pay.

02:26:02.660 Yes.

02:26:03.320 Well, I'll agree completely is that appreciation for greatness.

02:26:06.060 And I think that's gone completely.

02:26:08.700 I feel the same way when I stand on bridges or see tall buildings or just the things that human beings have created.

02:26:13.760 And we now have a culture where the people who are capable of great things, everyone wants to chop them down, whether that's through the government or privately.

02:26:22.500 And whether that's cultural or in people's souls, I don't know exactly where it comes from, but there is an opportunity to fix it.

02:26:29.700 And so for the people who appreciate greatness, who want to build things, who are tired of this being the way things are, we've got to build something better.

02:26:38.900 And I believe the best way is for people with that in their spirits to be bunkering down and to be building the new thing.

02:26:43.760 So what about buying a private island?

02:26:47.520 I mean, we would need a lot of people to do it under the pretext that when you put the money in, the island will be an anarchist state and you expect nothing of it.

02:26:54.020 The problem is, and this is the problem with Ken Ware.

02:26:57.700 So your economy ends up being very inefficient.

02:27:00.780 So it's very expensive to ship all these things out there.

02:27:02.740 So how are you going to make money and be productive here?

02:27:05.500 Generally, the answer is, well, I'm going to do things that the United States government frowns upon.

02:27:09.260 And I don't mean vice crimes necessarily.

02:27:11.640 We can come up with all kinds of things that are better.

02:27:15.280 100 milligrams only.

02:27:17.080 The question is, you do this.

02:27:19.900 What's your economy?

02:27:20.900 What are the businesses you're going to attract?

02:27:22.340 And are you going to be able to allow those businesses to operate there without the United States government crushing you?

02:27:27.460 If you can do that, it's a very valuable idea.

02:27:29.880 I'd be willing to bet that if we went to a moderately developed country that was like a lower GDP nation, I think Brazil's GDP is like 8,000.

02:27:40.140 Well, the private cities in Honduras.

02:27:41.440 I mean, we see attempts to do this.

02:27:42.920 Yeah.

02:27:43.140 Yeah.

02:27:43.480 It's just the question is what will happen when economies or businesses operate in those areas that draw ire of the United States government.

02:27:50.820 And we see this happening now.

02:27:51.540 There's one of these private cities, for example, is offering this medical treatment that the FDA has denied where you put this bacteria in your mouth and supposedly you don't need cavities.

02:27:58.880 You will never get a cavity again.

02:28:00.240 I'm not claiming it's true.

02:28:01.580 I'm hashtag not sponsored.

02:28:03.640 Too late.

02:28:05.020 I'm writing it down.

02:28:06.180 They're building an economy off of treatments like this where you can't get them.

02:28:09.600 And so the question is, well, will the United States government tolerate it?

02:28:12.640 There is a Sharon, I think is what it's called.

02:28:15.120 Yeah.

02:28:15.540 Phil, any final thoughts as we wrap up?

02:28:17.460 I don't really have any final thoughts because all you guys are yelling about communists.

02:28:20.880 You commie.

02:28:21.660 I don't know that I think anyone here is actually a communist.

02:28:25.380 I was half kidding by calling people commie.

02:28:26.740 I'm intending to be hyperbolic.

02:28:28.280 But but no, I mean, look, the fact of the matter is we were you know, we initially were talking about the future of the Libertarian Party and what, you know, Chase meant.

02:28:38.900 I think that there is a segment of the Libertarian Party that's going to like him.

02:28:42.300 But as far as I'm concerned, Chase is essentially a Democrat.

02:28:46.560 Right.

02:28:46.700 He's got very, very similar.

02:28:48.080 He's like a Democrat with but he likes guns or whatever.

02:28:50.600 And maybe he's a little less.

02:28:53.440 He loves guns, by the way.

02:28:55.060 Good for him.

02:28:55.760 Maybe he's a little less overbearing than than your regular Democrat.

02:28:59.180 But the Libertarian Party does need to have some kind of independent identity.

02:29:05.580 And Chase is not.

02:29:06.600 No.

02:29:07.200 I think that that wrap up my opinion.

02:29:08.900 Do you want to shout anything out before we wrap up social media or anything?

02:29:11.300 Oh, God.

02:29:11.880 Yes.

02:29:12.220 Thank you for the opportunity.

02:29:13.960 Yeah.

02:29:14.300 For spicy takes, please follow me on Twitter.

02:29:17.020 C-A-R-Y.

02:29:18.260 I can't even spell my own name.

02:29:20.500 Man, I'm feeling dumb.

02:29:21.800 C-A-R-Y-N-A-N-N-H-A-R-L-O-S.

02:29:25.560 Karen Ann Harlos.

02:29:26.480 And I also do have my own tiny YouTube channel, Pink Flame of Liberty.

02:29:31.660 So if you want to hear some more hot takes there, I would certainly appreciate some views and some likes and some subscribers.

02:29:41.200 Thank you so much.

02:29:42.240 Run on.

02:29:43.120 Yeah.

02:29:43.460 So I'm still wreck the regime.

02:29:44.980 I wreck the regime all across social media.

02:29:46.780 But I started a new substack, mrectinwald.substack.com, where I'm writing the Gummy Chronicles amongst other essays and things like that.

02:29:58.160 So if you want the inside of my head and what I think about all this, mrectinwald.substack.com.

02:30:08.100 I'm mostly on Twitter, although now that it pays me, I'm trying to call it X.

02:30:11.080 My handle is Jeremy Kaufman, just my full name.

02:30:15.280 Very pro-New Hampshire.

02:30:16.060 Happy to reach out to me and talk anything New Hampshire.

02:30:17.840 And I guess as my final plug also, if you care about the name Libertarian, which I do, you should stay in the Libertarian Party.

02:30:22.620 Cost you $25 a year or whatever.

02:30:23.960 And this way we can actually not let the word get ruined by terrible people.

02:30:26.540 But we will take more money.

02:30:27.820 As anti-LP as I am, the LP exists.

02:30:30.860 And it is better that it be controlled by good people than bad.

02:30:33.140 So don't leave.

02:30:33.800 At lp.org forward slash join.

02:30:36.860 I am Phil That Remains on Twix.

02:30:38.380 I am Phil That Remains official on Instagram.

02:30:40.280 The band is All That Remains.

02:30:41.480 You can check us out this summer on the Destroy All Enemies tour with Megadeth and Mudvayne.

02:30:46.480 We have a new single out today.

02:30:48.320 The song is called Let You Go.

02:30:49.780 You can check my Twix page.

02:30:51.700 It's on the very, very top pinned tweet.

02:30:54.240 It's also on our YouTube channel.

02:30:56.200 You can also listen to it on Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, Amazon Music, and Deezer.

02:31:01.520 Don't forget, Left Lane is for Crying.

02:31:02.980 It's such good stuff, man.

02:31:04.160 Thank you.

02:31:04.420 It's great music.

02:31:05.120 Divine is one of my favorite songs.

02:31:06.780 Absolutely killer.

02:31:08.060 Everybody, subscribe to this channel.

02:31:09.620 Subscribe to Tenet Media on YouTube.

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02:31:17.880 Thanks for hanging out, and we will see you all there.

02:31:37.400 We'll see you all there.

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - June 14, 2024

The Culture War #68 Leftist Libertarian Party Nominee REJECTED By 3 State Parties w⧸Caryn Ann Harlos, Mike Rectenwald, Jeremy Kauffman

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