The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #69 Joe Biden Managing The END Of The US w⧸Richard Spencer & Andrew Wilson

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00:00:59.060 I'm back, ladies and gentlemen. Let's go. We're going to have a very interesting conversation

00:01:02.920 today because it was already getting interesting. I love when this happens as we're preparing for

00:01:07.100 the show. I have to warn the guests to please stop talking about all of the interesting things

00:01:10.900 they're saying because we have a show to do. But I guess there's a couple of ideas around whether

00:01:16.440 Joe Biden is a good geriatric manager of the decline of the United States or Trump actually would

00:01:23.820 help resurge and restore it. And I think this will be interesting. So I won't get too much

00:01:28.580 into it, but we'll start with you, Andrew, if you want to introduce yourself.

00:01:31.180 Yeah, my name is Andrew Wilson. I'm the host of The Crucible. It is, to my knowledge,

00:01:34.320 the fastest growing debate channel anywhere on YouTube. I'm a political satirist,

00:01:38.600 a political pundit, and a blood support debater.

00:01:40.900 Right on. We also have Richard Spencer.

00:01:42.040 Yes, I'm Richard Spencer, and you can find me on X or Twitter, and you can look up Alexandria on

00:01:50.560 Substack. You might have heard about me from the old right days, the bad old times, fun old times

00:01:57.960 for some, but still going.

00:02:00.240 How would you describe yourself? I mean, for a lot of people, it's been a while. You were in the

00:02:03.760 spotlight quite a bit back in the early Trump era.

00:02:06.420 Yes. Well, it was incredible. And I think there was also a sort of

00:02:11.480 webzine, woke liberal webzine bubble that was obsessed with the alt-right and was expanding it

00:02:19.380 beyond all proportion. But yeah, I would wake up and there would be five new articles on me. It feeds

00:02:28.220 the ego. It was incredible, but also kind of terrible in some ways. I mean, you lose yourself,

00:02:35.280 and I'm glad about where I am now.

00:02:38.600 How would you describe yourself then for people who don't know you?

00:02:41.240 Well, yeah. I mean, look, in the alt-right days, I thought that Trump was going to shake things up

00:02:49.260 that all of these tired, boring, dusty conservatives were going to be shoved aside because they opposed

00:02:58.240 him pretty vehemently at the beginning, and he was just going to crush them all.

00:03:01.760 And there was going to be a new blood entered into the system, and that we were going to start

00:03:09.580 talking about things we weren't talking about. Yeah, I had those dreams, and those dreams kind

00:03:16.760 of crashed down to reality. And I recognized that where I was before that was where I was going to

00:03:22.260 be later, which is being alternative, being independent, focusing on intellectual matters,

00:03:28.120 et cetera. That's a better place for me. So obviously, we'll dive a lot more into both

00:03:32.160 of your backgrounds as the conversation continues, but we have Phil Labonte hanging out.

00:03:35.800 Hello, everybody. My name is Phil Labonte. I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band,

00:03:38.480 All That Remains. I'm an anti-communist and counter-revolutionary.

00:03:42.120 Right on. So shall we get started with the, I guess, the first question, which I'm not sure I

00:03:47.820 completely understood, is that you said Joe Biden may be a conservative, or you said he is a

00:03:52.460 conservative? He's a conservative. There's no question. I love it. All right. Well, look,

00:03:58.200 what is a conservative? A conservative conserves. That's in the very name. He maintains a status

00:04:04.800 quo. So then what is a progressive? I think liberal is actually the better word. Yeah,

00:04:11.300 but what's a progressive? Well, I don't know. Hillary Clinton, someone who keeps moving.

00:04:16.040 So what do progressives do? They are moving in some new type of direction that a conservative

00:04:21.780 is fighting against. Right. Okay, got it. So how is Biden not, if you just say that conservative

00:04:27.520 describes everybody who is conserving any kind of status quo, even if it's a progressive status

00:04:34.060 quo, that's bizarre. I'm conserving lasagna from last night. That's right. I'll go on this. All

00:04:41.220 right. I don't know if you've heard this or not, but Joe Biden is a very old man. And he worked with

00:04:50.100 segregationists back in the day. He still talks about it. He took Republican stances on things

00:04:57.400 all throughout his career. He is a sort of right wing pro credit card company, pro finance,

00:05:06.020 pro neocon or neocon ally person. That's who he is. He's not this left wing maniac attempting to

00:05:13.220 bring communism to the world. And it's very hard to... The guy has open border policies, man. Like

00:05:20.840 what? He doesn't have an open border policy. He's actually put forward a immigration policy that was

00:05:28.320 pretty draconian. Now... Like amnesty? Hold on. Pretty draconian, that amnesty. Trump is also

00:05:35.120 putting forward a sort of amnesty. No, he's not putting forward amnesty. Hold on. Let's get the

00:05:39.740 conservative argument succinctly so that we can then... Then you can react to it without taking me

00:05:44.500 off the... You're knocking me around. Good for you. Yeah. So he is a old man who is promising,

00:05:57.960 a sort of return to normalcy. That was his promise in 2020. That is why he won, in fact. Because

00:06:05.400 Trump, it's his fault in some ways. It's not his fault in others. He is associated with chaos,

00:06:12.580 with insanity. He's associated with conspiracy theories, with QAnon, with J6, et cetera, et cetera.

00:06:18.560 And he promised normalcy. Now, I think normalcy is impossible in our current nation. I don't think

00:06:27.320 he's going to bring us all together, and we're going to all just resolve our differences and find

00:06:32.100 that we all agree. But in order to step towards that, he is someone who is going to discipline his

00:06:38.760 base. He disciplines his base in ways that I don't agree with, in fact. I am highly critical of

00:06:45.960 the bombardment and the death and destruction in Gaza right now. So is his base. I agree with

00:06:54.780 Antifa on this one, as crazy as that might sound. He is going to discipline them, and he is going to

00:07:00.920 maintain a kind of more reasonable, a little bit critical here, we might withhold weapons here,

00:07:06.540 policy on Israel and Gaza. He's going to discipline his base. In terms of wokeness and all that kind of

00:07:13.060 stuff, I know it's been very profitable for people to talk about wokeness all the time, but

00:07:19.460 my sense is that it peaked and is on the decline. If we define wokeness as like, all kids should be

00:07:27.300 trans and trans and like, you know, replace the 4th of July with Vladimir Lenin Day, or just kind

00:07:34.760 of silliness, novelty in terms of sexual manifestations and all that kind of stuff, I actually

00:07:41.600 think that that is on the decline. I think Hollywood is going to shock a lot of conservatives when they

00:07:47.020 start going conservative with, you know, white little mermaids this time and traditional storytelling

00:07:53.560 for the simple reason that they want to make money. This is so. So hold on. Wokeness is declining. He is

00:08:00.160 maintaining the system in terms of make America great again. All of that garbled talking points

00:08:06.320 that Trump put forward. Biden has attempted to enact in a imperfect way. The CHIP Act. That was

00:08:17.640 something that Trump actually talked about. That's something that Biden went through with.

00:08:23.720 But let's infrastructure. Well, I'll finish up really quick. Infrastructure. He is, again,

00:08:28.780 attempted to build back infrastructure. You know, I could go on. Draconian immigration policy. He at

00:08:36.680 least puts forward his part. He was in support of a draconian immigration initiative. He is a

00:08:43.420 conservative in the sense that he looks back to the 60s, the 80s, whatever, as some kind of good time.

00:08:50.680 Let's go back to it. Let's maintain it. Let's discipline the far left and move forward. Is he going to

00:08:56.540 win with that? Is that possible? Those are interesting questions.

00:09:00.420 Oh, yeah. So no, those aren't that interesting. Those questions. Let's start with all of the.

00:09:04.800 Well, all right. Let's start. Let's start with all of these kind of insane ideas. Start with

00:09:08.780 insane idea. Number one, wokeness is dead. No, it's not. Well, he did say declining. Yeah.

00:09:15.420 I don't even think it's declining. I'm more inclined to believe that it's that it's actually

00:09:19.380 seeing some pushback. But I there's there's pushback. Sure. But no, I'm sorry. Sorry to be there.

00:09:24.600 There's pushback from conservatives. There's pushback from. I'm sorry to be the bearer of

00:09:28.900 bad news. I want to give. But Disney's not going to stop the wokeness and Hollywood's not going to

00:09:33.960 start making conservative movies. That's an insane take. I don't know where you came up with that.

00:09:37.980 It's madness. Moving over to the Trump Biden administration itself. Biden's in no way a

00:09:44.540 conservative. I don't know where he got that idea. He's conserving the status quo. That's meaningless.

00:09:49.140 That's not what conservatism is. Conservatism is the conservation of Christian ethics and Christian

00:09:55.520 values in the United States. That's conservatism. OK, Biden's not doing that. There's no how no way

00:10:02.360 he's not doing it. When you look at the southern border. Yes, it's wide open. He's putting he's

00:10:06.880 putting these immigrants up in hotel rooms. He wants amnesty. He's pushing all of that forward

00:10:11.580 in almost every way that I can conceivably think. This guy's moving a progressive policy,

00:10:18.320 not a conservative policy. There's no conservation at all. I actually think I agree with Richard that

00:10:23.820 wokeness is declining. I think we are winning this. If you look at Target there, there was a really,

00:10:29.660 really funny meme in the Vosh. And I know you love a guy subreddit where they were alone. They were

00:10:35.320 his fans are actually scared because a lot of big corporations have pulled back the pride

00:10:40.920 merchandise in June. The Bud Light backlash has mattered. I just just make that point.

00:10:46.760 Yeah. But the here's the thing. The empire will strike back. Yeah. And this kind of absurd idea

00:10:52.320 that, oh, well, Christian conservatives remembered that we could boycott that we had the most powerful

00:10:57.460 institution on planet Earth, the church. That's the one powerful institution that conservatives have

00:11:02.440 always had. And we barely ever use it. One time once we were like, well, no, on the Dylan Mulvaney thing.

00:11:10.340 And it kind of caught a little bit of steam. But no, there's going to be massive backlash. No,

00:11:14.280 the trans, the trans agenda is not going away. The thing that comes after it, that's even worse

00:11:18.780 than that. I don't know what that's going to be, but it's going to be worse. And it's coming

00:11:22.200 transhumanism. I think worse than that. I mean, transgenderism is kind of transhumanism.

00:11:27.180 So let me, let me put it this way. Okay. So I, I guess we, we might have a definitional issue.

00:11:32.600 I would define conservative, a conservative as, as conserving the status quo, whether that's a party

00:11:38.300 or a class or a way of life. Now it might very well be conserving in some instances,

00:11:43.280 Christian values of the church or someone. Yeah. It has to, it has to conserve foundational

00:11:48.700 ethics. Okay. But I'm, I'm using that word objectively. I think Brezhnev, a leader of the

00:11:53.800 Soviet union was a conservative. He maintained the Soviet union and he actually reduced some of the

00:12:00.380 insanity of it. So that, that's my definition. So we shouldn't, you know, get caught up on those,

00:12:06.740 but hang on, hang on. No, we need to get caught up a little bit on the definition. So when you're

00:12:12.460 talking politically about political, what we're considering a conservative politically, we're

00:12:17.420 thinking about a throwback ideology. We're not thinking about anything, which is a progress

00:12:22.360 ideology in any way. So we want stronger borders. We want to go back to what stronger borders look

00:12:27.640 like. We want to go back to when we had good, tough institutional power. We want to go back

00:12:32.860 to this type of thing, but the underpinnings is always the Christian ethic. So the big fight

00:12:37.740 inside of the right wing is Christian ethics versus everything else. That's why you have

00:12:41.960 Christian populism, Christian nationalism. That's what it is. That's what conservatism is. That's

00:12:46.860 what's going to stay. So this is an interesting point. Richard, your definition of conservatism is

00:12:51.460 typically the liberal definition of conservatism. I'm not saying only liberals, but

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00:13:53.920 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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00:14:19.540 Did I mention that we care?

00:14:23.440 This is why the media, the corporate press, the liberal, I would say Tim Pool is a conservative,

00:14:27.540 despite the fact that I'm not a Christian and I hold many liberal views.

00:14:30.480 And then you have the more right view of conservatism, which is Christian values,

00:14:33.860 which is why conservatives or people who are Christian will say Tim Pool is definitely not a

00:14:38.180 conservative, and the left will say Tim Pool is definitely not a.

00:14:40.400 Right. I have a sort of relative.

00:14:41.500 Tim Pool is definitely not a conservative.

00:14:44.740 I have a sort of, and I'm not a conservative either, I guess. Yeah. I mean, I'm, yeah. But I

00:14:49.040 have a relative.

00:14:49.760 No, Richard Spencer is definitely not a conservative.

00:14:51.160 Thank you for saying that. All right. I have a relativistic objective notion of a conservative.

00:14:56.140 If you are maintaining something that is going in some sort of direction, you are a conservative.

00:15:01.720 Now, let me get at liberalism a little bit, and I'll bring in the trans issue and so on,

00:15:06.800 because I think we need a narrative to fully understand this. So progress towards what?

00:15:15.760 Right. That's the issue. I'm a progressive. What does that mean? Exactly. You're, you're,

00:15:21.140 you know, I think it does mean something. I think liberalism is, if you go back to the word itself,

00:15:28.420 it is Liber. Liberalism is a notion of Dionysian release and expression. Liberalism is very well

00:15:40.500 codified in Euripides the Bacchae, in which he describes a situation in which Dionysus comes

00:15:47.040 into town, into Thebes, demands to be recognized as the son of God, which has some interesting

00:15:51.920 resonances for you, I would imagine. And what is this sophistry gibberish? What's the point?

00:15:58.320 What's the point? I'll get to the point. All right. All right. Just let me. I don't want to

00:16:01.880 hear about Dionysus. He, Dionysus comes into town and he brings about a massive orgy that will

00:16:08.660 ultimately lead to the beheading and death of, of the Pentheus, who's actually leading Thebes. So

00:16:16.180 liberalism, you might agree with me here. Liberalism, it isn't like rational or about

00:16:21.780 policy. It's fundamentally about release. Even democracy itself is a kind of orgy, you could

00:16:28.140 say, in the sense that it is about all people participating, taking part, the majority winning.

00:16:34.420 That's what liberalism is.

00:16:36.040 When we're talking about these words, though, you and I can agree that when you're discussing a word,

00:16:40.800 how it's used in the commons versus what it's kind of academic or underpinning meanings are,

00:16:46.380 aren't really that relevant.

00:16:47.780 Like Jesus, I reframe things and create a new word.

00:16:50.960 So when we're talking about this in the commons, nobody's talking about Dionysus and orgies.

00:16:55.260 Well, hold on.

00:16:55.720 Only the leftists thought about meanings all day long and never talked about anything with

00:17:00.080 substance. I mean, only leftists here?

00:17:01.980 Well, I'm going to jump right in the middle, jump right in the middle and say, you know,

00:17:06.100 when you're going into Dionysus and stuff, I'm like, come on, come on, what's the point?

00:17:08.540 But it actually is very interesting that Liber in ancient Rome, it is the root word of where

00:17:13.560 liberal and these words come from.

00:17:15.640 Exactly.

00:17:16.420 It is.

00:17:16.920 That is interesting.

00:17:18.020 Drunkenness, freedom, liberation.

00:17:19.760 So this is the thing.

00:17:20.960 So that's what liberalism is always about.

00:17:22.780 It's always about releasing.

00:17:25.240 It's about degeneracy.

00:17:26.680 Take part.

00:17:27.300 It's about degeneracy.

00:17:28.700 You could say that.

00:17:29.780 Yes.

00:17:30.180 And I agree.

00:17:30.700 And it is coming from the wine god as well.

00:17:33.240 But this is the thing.

00:17:35.620 And liberalism had a narrative, a meta narrative for much of the 20th century.

00:17:41.520 While I was flying down here, I actually watched, I don't even know why, but I watched 42, which

00:17:48.200 is a movie about Jackie Robinson, right?

00:17:51.220 And it was unbelievably sentimental, over the top, too much.

00:17:56.940 It was a terrible movie, if kind of well shot.

00:17:59.820 That Jackie Robinson notion of a poor guy who tries hard, who's tough but moral, and

00:18:09.100 he finally gets a chance to be part of white society, and everyone rejects him, and then

00:18:14.020 they accept him, and we're all good, and the white guy can embrace the black guy in the

00:18:18.900 ball field, and we're all Americans now, kind of thing.

00:18:21.400 That is a master narrative for liberalism.

00:18:25.640 That justifies them morally, because liberals are kind of moralistic.

00:18:30.820 They want to feel like they're on the right side of history.

00:18:32.840 And that has played out over and over, certainly with blacks.

00:18:36.420 There's a bit of a different narrative in terms of the Holocaust and the Jewish experience,

00:18:40.620 et cetera.

00:18:41.220 Definitely played out with gays.

00:18:42.700 You know, they were oppressed.

00:18:44.780 They were getting their ass kicked by the police.

00:18:47.200 Now they're here, and now they're Americans, and now they're getting married.

00:18:49.640 So they're bourgeois Americans, no less.

00:18:52.480 And it played out, again, with transgender.

00:18:54.740 What I am saying is, I think Phil was saying, like, what's after transgenderism, or whatever.

00:19:01.560 He was asking.

00:19:02.360 Oh, okay.

00:19:02.900 Okay.

00:19:03.140 Well, someone said that.

00:19:04.620 I'm not sure there is anything after transgenderism.

00:19:07.920 Well, hold on.

00:19:08.600 I'm not sure there is anything after, because you are scraping the bottom of the barrel with,

00:19:13.160 like, 0.5% of the society who wants to dress up, and so on.

00:19:18.140 It's less than that.

00:19:19.040 And I describe it as, they're scraping it so hard, wood chips are coming up.

00:19:22.540 Absolutely.

00:19:23.660 And so this meta-narrative of Americanism and inclusion, et cetera, is reaching its limit.

00:19:32.400 No one can plausibly say that, like, oh, blacks are, like, really oppressed in this country

00:19:39.460 when they benefit from affirmative action, when they benefit from, like, moralization in Hollywood,

00:19:45.820 et cetera.

00:19:46.740 Well, I don't want to get too far off that Biden is a conservative, Trump is.

00:19:51.020 So Biden's an expression of this, because he's, like, 100, or he's 80, in fact.

00:19:56.100 But he is, he's, like, 20th century liberalism has reached its end point, and you have this, like,

00:20:03.020 doddering old man kind of, like, in a wheelchair trying to keep it going.

00:20:07.700 That's where we are.

00:20:09.700 So, Trump?

00:20:11.480 That's, like, the biggest word salad bunch of gibberish garbage, too.

00:20:15.380 Okay.

00:20:16.020 So to keep it concise, right, without going off on Dionysus and all of this other garbage.

00:20:21.900 What actually, what actually, just very concisely, makes Biden a conservative?

00:20:27.620 Concisely.

00:20:28.820 Concisely.

00:20:29.640 He is taking on a Cold War posture vis-a-vis Russia.

00:20:34.420 He wants to build microchips in the United States with the Chip Act.

00:20:39.520 He's a bit incoherent, but he kind of gestures towards we've got a problem at the border that

00:20:45.220 we've got to solve.

00:20:47.240 And I could, we need to build back infrastructure, and we're all Americans, hot dogs, and baseball

00:20:52.520 and parades.

00:20:53.400 So, the simple one sentence is, he is trying to maintain some kind of status quo.

00:20:57.260 Correct.

00:20:58.000 Okay, got it.

00:20:59.280 And Trump is threatening it.

00:21:00.560 Yeah, I mean, but that's good.

00:21:02.640 How is Trump threatening the status quo?

00:21:04.300 He's threatening the progressive status quo.

00:21:06.840 So, Trump, one of the big things with him is he's a hand grenade.

00:21:11.020 His job was to be thrown in, shake things up, expose the swamp, do those types of things.

00:21:17.040 Nobody had expectations that Trump was going to be a great reformer.

00:21:20.140 That wasn't his job.

00:21:21.000 His job was revenge.

00:21:23.080 He was revenge of the American public.

00:21:25.220 Like, that's exactly what we put him in there to do, and that's exactly what he was doing.

00:21:29.360 That's why he has such a great base, is because we wanted things shaken up as much as we possibly

00:21:34.920 could.

00:21:35.820 The return-

00:21:36.560 Isn't that a bit nihilistic?

00:21:37.600 No, it's not nihilistic.

00:21:38.820 Well-

00:21:39.080 That's what-

00:21:39.600 Michael Moore was the one who-

00:21:41.140 Progressive Michael Moore-

00:21:42.660 He nailed it.

00:21:43.700 Is the one who explained this.

00:21:44.880 He said, Donald Trump is a hand grenade.

00:21:47.720 Yeah.

00:21:47.860 And the working class-

00:21:48.740 Human Molotov cocktail.

00:21:50.200 The working class is throwing him in because they're so pissed off and they're so jarred

00:21:57.480 by this progressive garbage.

00:21:59.320 Functionally, Donald Trump is true.

00:22:03.320 He's a little bit towards LGBTQ, but it seems like it's posturing.

00:22:07.020 It seems like it's posturing towards it rather than anything really too substantive.

00:22:12.200 Whereas Biden, Biden's filling his administration with these people.

00:22:17.420 Under the Biden administration, we had gay sex going on in these Capitol buildings, and

00:22:22.500 they're just like, don't care.

00:22:23.480 I got to pause you there, and I'm not sure that's a new thing.

00:22:26.760 I mean, maybe-

00:22:27.920 There's less gay sex in the Democratic Party than the Republican Party.

00:22:31.340 Sorry, I won't say more.

00:22:33.520 Yeah.

00:22:34.420 No.

00:22:35.220 No, I don't believe that either.

00:22:36.700 Not voters.

00:22:37.640 Yeah.

00:22:37.780 So that's a kind of typified progressive talking point, too, right?

00:22:42.260 That, ah, so many of the Republicans are just actual undercover gays.

00:22:45.940 It's like, no, you know, I don't think so.

00:22:48.500 And on top of that, I would say-

00:22:49.680 Not the voters, but absolutely the staffers.

00:22:53.080 But in-

00:22:53.620 No, not even the staffers.

00:22:55.540 The Democrats-

00:22:56.540 Democrats are still worse on this.

00:22:58.180 It's kind of a joke, too, but let's not get caught up on that.

00:23:00.860 That, okay, I think it was about a year ago during our last Gay Pride month-long celebration

00:23:06.140 when he invited some transgendered women to the White House lawn, and they were, you know,

00:23:13.460 partying around-

00:23:14.220 Lashing?

00:23:14.660 Right, right, right.

00:23:15.420 But this is my point.

00:23:16.580 This is an expression, encapsulation of my point.

00:23:19.800 So she took off her shirt and flaunted her breast, and that was just a little bit too far.

00:23:27.500 Because what Biden is trying to do, and I think it's kind of ultimately impossible,

00:23:31.820 what he is trying to do is to integrate these forces into American institutions in order

00:23:39.040 to manage them.

00:23:40.240 And if you go cross that line, if she had just partied around and whatever, that's okay.

00:23:45.920 You get naked, you're starting to offend the American public, and that's when you get

00:23:49.740 disciplined.

00:23:50.160 Wouldn't that be progress?

00:23:51.740 If you're integrating all of these external degenerate factors in so that you can manage

00:23:56.640 them better inside of your-

00:23:58.280 That would be definitionally what I would think a progressive would do, not a conservative.

00:24:04.920 So even by your logic, you say this is a conservation of the status quo, then you give us an example

00:24:09.420 of how he's breaking the status quo.

00:24:11.320 He disciplined them for going too far is my fundamental point.

00:24:14.160 Yeah, but you also claim they're integrating this.

00:24:16.520 So if they're integrating it, that would be progress, not conservatism.

00:24:20.780 I really just don't like when people choose these words that give them these benefits,

00:24:25.400 like progress.

00:24:27.060 It's degress or regress.

00:24:30.280 You know-

00:24:30.640 I can only go off of his definition, right?

00:24:32.580 I get it.

00:24:33.260 I'm not saying either of you are right or wrong.

00:24:35.040 I'm saying one function of leftist political strategy is to use words that will always make

00:24:40.000 them sound good, like progress, like we are advancing.

00:24:43.800 Personally, in my opinion, I don't see this as advancement.

00:24:45.580 I see it as a degradation.

00:24:47.600 Yeah, I would.

00:24:48.260 Oh, I would too.

00:24:49.000 But I'm just saying, if the idea that Biden is a conservative because he's kind of maintaining

00:24:56.100 the status quo of what's going on, and then immediately we get an example of how, well,

00:25:02.540 no, he's kind of moving the goal past the status quo, integrating the degenerates in, making

00:25:07.760 it a little bit more controllable for them to then use this group to push an even more progressive

00:25:11.880 pot.

00:25:12.140 That seems the opposite of what you're-

00:25:14.160 Andrew, because the status quo of America is liberalism and progressivism.

00:25:18.280 The status quo of America is not some like deep monarchy and Catholic country or orthodox

00:25:25.160 countries you want.

00:25:26.660 Oh, that's paradoxical.

00:25:28.060 It is totally paradoxical.

00:25:29.480 What you've now said is that-

00:25:30.640 America's paradoxical.

00:25:31.600 Joe Biden is a conservative because he's conserving-

00:25:34.860 Liberalism.

00:25:35.460 Yeah, he's conserving progressive values.

00:25:37.700 Yeah, it's a total paradox.

00:25:38.480 But I define liberalism for you.

00:25:41.340 America is a unique-

00:25:42.200 That begs the question.

00:25:42.800 America is a unique country.

00:25:45.620 America, by my definition, has never really been a nation state in the sense that, say,

00:25:51.040 Finland is a nation.

00:25:52.420 It's actually similar to Russia in the sense that it's always been an empire.

00:25:56.040 It's been an open space, a frontier to explore and conquer and transform.

00:26:05.380 It has been a global empire.

00:26:08.100 Even before the Second World War, Woodrow Wilson imagined a hegemonic American Europe with nation

00:26:16.520 states underneath it and a league of nations organizing them.

00:26:19.540 It has been that.

00:26:21.140 It has never been a nation state in the way that even Germany right now.

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00:27:26.500 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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00:27:32.760 I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

00:27:38.220 We care about you.

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00:27:51.280 Care, care.

00:27:52.160 Did I mention that we care?

00:27:53.360 Is a nation state.

00:27:56.820 It's a paradoxical place.

00:27:58.360 We don't have this past of a monarchy or the Catholic Church or something like that to react to.

00:28:06.620 It is fundamentally different and fundamentally paradoxical.

00:28:11.140 It's funny that it's founded on enlightenment principles

00:28:13.660 and that there's going to be some form of maybe what you would consider progressivism.

00:28:18.320 There's no way, though, that the people who formed this republic ever envisioned anything like this.

00:28:23.300 Nothing even close to anything like this.

00:28:25.280 That was not within the envisionment of these types of progressive values.

00:28:29.800 But when Tim rightly points this out, it's paradoxical to say the conservation of the status quo is progressivism.

00:28:36.760 If that's the case, then basically you're flipping the parties.

00:28:41.740 You're saying that all liberals are conservatives, and then what's a conservative?

00:28:46.500 Someone changing the system.

00:28:47.920 Yeah, someone changing the system.

00:28:49.340 So you're literally reversing it.

00:28:50.860 I do think if we want to move to this topic, Republicans were not always like this.

00:28:57.260 Growing up in the 80s and 90s in Dallas, Texas, Republicans wore khaki pads, blue blazers.

00:29:04.240 They were a lawyer.

00:29:05.280 It's the party of the rich in many ways, the party of the decent rich as well.

00:29:13.740 What Trump represents is not that.

00:29:16.560 Michael Moore nailed it when he said it is a resentment ideology.

00:29:21.480 On one day of the year, a homeless person has the same amount of power as a billionaire.

00:29:27.460 And because they both have one vote, and they can just clock the system right in the face and just say, F you all.

00:29:36.400 That is what Trumpism thrives on, is that sort of resentment bordering on nihilism.

00:29:43.680 I don't think conservatives have any sort of nihilism come in here.

00:29:48.040 Why is it reason?

00:29:48.660 You want to tear it all down?

00:29:49.980 I would call that nihilism.

00:29:51.080 I'm going to hear you kind of insert this over and over.

00:29:52.820 But it doesn't seem like they want to tear it all down.

00:29:55.200 It seems like they want to empty a lot of the players who are bad players.

00:29:59.340 They don't want to tear the institutions down.

00:30:00.700 They want to take them back.

00:30:01.820 They don't want this kind of idea that Trumpism is based around, burn it down and we'll start over again.

00:30:09.060 It doesn't seem like...

00:30:09.680 I feel a lot of Trumpism, to be honest.

00:30:11.820 It seems to be mostly based around, they want to get rid of bad actors.

00:30:16.100 They want to get rid of bad actors.

00:30:17.940 That's what Drain the Swamp was all about.

00:30:20.000 I want to add, I think a lot of what Richard is saying about the United States had never been like a Finland is a very, very good point.

00:30:27.240 This is true.

00:30:27.920 The states themselves were unto themselves as sovereign, effectively sovereign states.

00:30:33.760 Civil war changed everything.

00:30:35.480 And I'm trying to pinpoint a time in the United States where there wasn't a rapid shift and change.

00:30:40.520 And honestly, we have these periods.

00:30:42.800 We have the revolutionary period, which is, again, there's no nation state.

00:30:46.420 We're just beholden to the crown.

00:30:47.280 We break free from it over this 20-year period.

00:30:49.120 We then get 80 or so years of expansion into the West, new states forming new territories, which leads to the Civil War.

00:30:56.540 And this transforms this weak republic, like a weak federal union of sovereign states into a solid nation for the first time.

00:31:05.000 The famous saying being pre-Civil War, it was the United States are, and post-Civil War, the United States is.

00:31:11.580 Right.

00:31:11.780 Then you get about 60 or so years until you get this militaristic expansionism internationally with you get the Federal Reserve and central banking, a dramatic change.

00:31:20.740 And so I think it's a good point.

00:31:24.200 I'm not saying – I actually still – my view would be that Trump is a stabilizing force for America in this decline in a way that restores our vision of what things need to be, how they were better before.

00:31:38.520 But I do think it's interesting, the point you're making, that Biden is an agent of the United States is a strung-together hodgepodge that must be strung together at all costs.

00:31:48.280 Right.

00:31:48.660 Not that I agree with his definitions.

00:31:50.720 Yeah.

00:31:51.000 Sure.

00:31:51.500 Yes.

00:31:51.960 I understand that.

00:31:53.440 And I think in 2016, there was a sort of another Trump.

00:31:57.960 I mean, you mentioned yourself.

00:31:59.480 He did all of the LGBTQ stuff.

00:32:02.300 And, you know, like, yes, it would be wonderful if –

00:32:05.200 Yeah, he did some pandering.

00:32:06.400 You know, if it dragged queens, it missed uniforms.

00:32:08.860 I love it.

00:32:09.960 I'm not thrilled about the pandering there, right?

00:32:12.340 But there's a big distinction to be made.

00:32:14.460 What's interesting, in 2015 and 2016, he was a sort of center-left type, center-liberal type figure.

00:32:25.540 He was arguably to the left on a lot of issues of Hillary Clinton, who voted for the Iraq War.

00:32:33.100 He was a – no, he was a total populist who wanted to shut – the first thing he did was try to shut down Muslims from coming into the country.

00:32:40.040 I agree with that.

00:32:40.880 He wanted to shut down the border and build a massive wall.

00:32:43.060 He also said –

00:32:44.060 Like, what are you talking about?

00:32:45.240 He also said – a massive wall is a stabilizing force.

00:32:47.960 He also said we're not going to let – he supported socialized medicine, national healthcare system, in a book called The America We Deserve, 10 years before he ran.

00:32:58.480 He actually started his campaign at GeoProud, a Republican gay event, or, as we should say, a Republican event, at CPAC in 2014.

00:33:11.000 He promised, more or less, that we would have paid family leave for our women and corporations, which I support.

00:33:18.620 It would have been pro-natalist and other things.

00:33:20.380 He basically offered himself as – we have this system here.

00:33:25.900 He said this directly.

00:33:27.160 I know how this system works.

00:33:29.060 I have manipulated this system myself.

00:33:31.200 I'm going to start making it work for you.

00:33:33.580 There is a sort of – it's populist.

00:33:35.640 There's no question about it.

00:33:37.120 But there's – populism often manifests as a sort of centrism that I think Trump offered in 2016.

00:33:43.900 I don't think there's much centrism when you look at tax policy, when you look at financial policy –

00:33:48.280 That's what happened.

00:33:48.860 When you look at what happens –

00:33:49.480 That's what happened.

00:33:50.260 When you look at what happens with his policies with corporations, he gives them these massive tax breaks.

00:33:54.280 This was completely against the progressive ethos of, wait, you're going to give corporations tax breaks in a trickle-down style economics?

00:34:03.360 You're going to build a wall on the border?

00:34:05.200 You're going to put in a symbol that the United States is not open for business?

00:34:08.540 You're going to move towards isolationism?

00:34:10.540 That is not center-left of Hillary Clinton, dude.

00:34:13.180 What – in a way it is.

00:34:16.280 What way?

00:34:17.240 Well, let me explain.

00:34:19.200 Paul Songus, when he was running for president in the 90s, he said, you know, the Cold War is over and guess who won?

00:34:25.160 Germany and Japan.

00:34:26.300 So the Axis powers in the World War II.

00:34:28.620 There is a strain on the Democratic Party towards a sort of isolationism and nationalism of we want to build cars here and so on.

00:34:38.980 What?

00:34:40.380 There is historically.

00:34:41.480 I mean, I'd agree that there's less of it now.

00:34:43.480 Well, there isn't now.

00:34:44.520 I thought you were talking about right now.

00:34:46.100 There is now to a degree.

00:34:47.000 Where?

00:34:48.140 Union people, old-style Democrats, Joe Biden.

00:34:51.240 The unions are not trying to commercially build anything.

00:34:54.620 Unions now are just going –

00:34:56.100 This is the man who did the CHIP Act.

00:34:57.700 They move parasitically.

00:34:59.460 The CHIP Act is literally about national defense.

00:35:03.920 That's the only reason that it moved through is because it can be related to the DOD.

00:35:07.920 The American middle class was built on national defense.

00:35:11.020 The American middle class that you guys love arose during the Cold War.

00:35:15.200 And the degree to which it benefited from that type of system can't be underestimated.

00:35:20.600 That's true.

00:35:21.120 It happened at the same time.

00:35:22.180 But it's because of the post-World War II soldiers coming back.

00:35:25.460 They had the GI Bill.

00:35:26.280 They had tons of money stashed away.

00:35:28.200 They were getting married very, very young, quickly.

00:35:31.800 They were starting families.

00:35:32.720 College was socialized.

00:35:33.720 They hadn't seen a woman in three and a half years and were fighting Nazis.

00:35:37.380 So they got home.

00:35:37.900 They married their chicks.

00:35:38.660 They had a ton of kids.

00:35:39.920 And they went right to work.

00:35:41.360 It was a whole different –

00:35:42.340 It wasn't because of the Cold War.

00:35:44.600 But on top of that, kind of moving back to this, this idea that these center-left, that Trump was center-left due to the fact that inside of the Democrat Party, trade unions want to somehow bring work back to the United States.

00:36:00.680 That's not how they operate.

00:36:02.080 They parasitically go company to company.

00:36:04.560 And they get a union.

00:36:06.120 And then they just begin to rake over the coals any of the profiteering of that company.

00:36:11.060 That might be true.

00:36:12.220 All I'm pointing to is a sort of strain within the Democratic Party that you actually didn't see in a more globalist economic party.

00:36:20.660 I still don't see it.

00:36:20.960 But let me –

00:36:21.980 I don't see this union – I don't see this big strain of domestic jobs.

00:36:25.500 I don't want to get caught up on that.

00:36:26.900 What happened to Trump – and this actually happened in late 2016, like December 2016 – is that he brought in Mnuchin.

00:36:34.160 Steve Bannon said this himself.

00:36:35.760 He was like, you know, MAGA is going to marry with the conservative movement and so on.

00:36:40.340 So they brought in these Republican parties and he basically implemented Paul Ryan's agenda.

00:36:47.740 Paul Ryan's agenda is tax cuts, getting rid of Obamacare, the government shouldn't do anything, you should be able to drown in a bathtub, et cetera, et cetera.

00:36:56.420 That is what Trump fundamentally did in the first two years of his term.

00:37:01.680 It does not sound anything like what Clinton's agenda was.

00:37:04.200 I agree.

00:37:05.260 My point was that what Trump offered in a granted vague way in 2016 was a sort of centrism, in fact.

00:37:15.340 He did not implement that in office and that's one of the reasons, a primary reason why he soured on him.

00:37:20.140 I'm a centrist.

00:37:20.740 The centrism of Trump was not what got him elected.

00:37:22.500 It was not this idea of I'm going to pander to the left and I'm going to pander to the –

00:37:27.240 what he said was I know the system and I know that there are a bunch of corrupt, dirty bastards that are going to do what I say or we're going to put them in jail.

00:37:33.600 That's what he was moving towards with MAGA.

00:37:36.100 So I think getting hung up on definitions and the different views of like the word centrist, what is centrist, I don't want to get lost in that stuff.

00:37:43.000 What I will add is it is actually a big deal.

00:37:47.120 Nine million Obama voters switched from the Democratic Party to vote Republican because of Donald Trump.

00:37:51.480 And a large reason was Donald Trump saying secure the borders, bring our jobs back, which for a long time was traditionally the Democrat position.

00:38:00.300 And you notoriously had the Koch brothers, which were more in favor of immigration for labor.

00:38:04.440 Yes.

00:38:04.840 So Trump kind of flipped the script on that.

00:38:07.200 And we saw in 2016 Vox.com, the leftist Vox, called Trump a moderate and also said that the Democrats had become the party of the wealthy.

00:38:14.520 That was to defame him, though.

00:38:16.440 A lot of these things are designed specifically.

00:38:18.620 For sure, for sure.

00:38:19.020 Yeah, specifically to defame Trump, to make him look bad, to make him look bad in front of his base, this kind of thing.

00:38:25.240 To say that action on the southern border or that leftists don't absolutely adore mass migration from South America is insane.

00:38:32.620 They love it.

00:38:33.780 But let's not get caught up on the perspective shift, right?

00:38:37.460 So let's go back to the battle.

00:38:38.740 Was it the battle in Seattle or the battle of Seattle?

00:38:41.060 You guys are familiar with this?

00:38:41.760 1999 World Trade Organization protest, where leftists took over city streets to stop free trade agreements internationally with the World Trade Organization.

00:38:51.600 And it was Barack Obama championing the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

00:38:55.720 And it was Donald Trump who destroyed it, which is weird in a lot of ways for – and this is where I come from, right?

00:39:02.860 Like, I'm in this anti-war, you know, anti-internet – like the TPP, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, giving foreign corporations legal authority in some respects over United States citizens was ridiculous.

00:39:15.760 These free trade agreements have driven our manufacturing base.

00:39:19.520 It's recovered a little bit.

00:39:20.600 But out of the country, to China, to Mexico, to Indonesia, to Cambodia –

00:39:24.820 But that was all Clinton-era stuff.

00:39:26.380 Right.

00:39:26.660 North America free trade.

00:39:27.920 And you ended up with leftists that were protesting all this stuff.

00:39:31.680 And then when Bush comes in, anti-war.

00:39:34.280 Obama adopts those same policies that were considered like neocon right-wing policies.

00:39:39.340 He adopts open border – well, they call him deporter-in-chief.

00:39:42.460 But the open borders trade stuff I'm specifically referring to with like – with NAFTA and things like this.

00:39:47.960 He deported more people than Trump.

00:39:49.280 Yeah, they called him deporter-in-chief.

00:39:50.940 They really did not like that guy.

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00:41:17.120 Did I mention that we care?

00:41:18.160 It's, it's, I'll just put it this way.

00:41:23.600 Trump, as a Republican, brought in, he basically embraced populist ideas that were typically associated with Democrats in a lot of ways.

00:41:32.420 I don't think are necessarily left or right economically.

00:41:35.400 Supporting the working class and union workers, I don't see as leftist.

00:41:39.300 We should be populist and for the people.

00:41:41.580 But the machine's view is, at the time, that the definitions moved around.

00:41:46.480 What I'm trying to say is, when we argue, like, oh, Trump was left, Trump was centrist, Trump was right, I'm like, I don't know that that matters as much because how we view left, right, and center today is very different from where it was 10 or even 20 years ago.

00:41:59.340 But if the question is, is Joe Biden conservative, then kind of the semantic distinctions matter, right?

00:42:05.880 We're kind of talking about what is in modernity.

00:42:08.660 So I understand that you can make kind of the claim, these definitions shift over time, right?

00:42:14.000 Okay, sure.

00:42:14.700 They shift over time.

00:42:16.060 But we're talking about right now, what is a conservative?

00:42:18.780 What is a liberal?

00:42:19.980 What is a center-rightist?

00:42:21.780 Clearly, these policies, when we're discussing these policies, Trump was not center-left of Hillary Clinton at all, at least not from my perspective.

00:42:30.640 I want to bring back coal mining.

00:42:32.880 I mean, there was this reactionary liberalism.

00:42:35.980 That was a big thing in 2016.

00:42:37.220 How was that a reactionary liberalism?

00:42:38.520 I want to say that I agree with Andrew over here.

00:42:42.420 I do not believe in any way you can argue Joe Biden is a conservative.

00:42:48.100 No, I don't either.

00:42:49.240 I just don't.

00:42:51.760 Because even if the argument is preserving the status quo, I think you described it as managing its decline is not preserving the status quo.

00:42:59.240 That's the most conservative thing you could do is manage a decline.

00:43:02.640 I mean, that's what he's doing.

00:43:05.540 In the purest argument of conservatism is to conserve the status quo, what I see with MAGA world versus the neolib, which includes the pocket of weird leftists they're trying to manage, their attitude is international hegemonic authority protects the petrodollar and maintains our machine.

00:43:24.360 Donald Trump's view is more so this machine is falling apart.

00:43:27.960 We need to shore up our defenses and make sure we can function after this happens.

00:43:33.680 And so the Biden worldview is it's all falling apart.

00:43:36.940 Let's ride the wave and take it.

00:43:38.900 I describe it as the Titanic has hit the iceberg.

00:43:41.960 The Biden Democrat side is grab as much fine China and silverware as you can and get to the lifeboats before anyone realizes it happened.

00:43:48.360 And the Trump side is let's try and steer towards shallow shores so we can all survive and then try and rebuild this thing.

00:43:54.360 Well, and this is a good point.

00:43:55.800 So another another way to kind of look at this is even if we were to be very charitable with how you're kind of defining this, Richard, they're both both of them would be managing the decline.

00:44:05.180 Right.

00:44:05.780 Both of them.

00:44:06.600 So I agree with that.

00:44:07.920 I agree with that to some extent, but I think Trump, due to his personality, due to the fact that he has responded to liberalism with liberals in their attacks on him, most of which are many of which are completely unfair.

00:44:25.760 The whole Pussy Daniels thing in New York is just ridiculous.

00:44:29.640 He has responded to that with, fuck you.

00:44:32.360 I'm never backing down.

00:44:33.840 I am winning.

00:44:34.900 J6 was nothing or it was good.

00:44:37.100 It was whatever he says.

00:44:38.940 Like, that is a challenge to the system.

00:44:41.680 If someone is going to push the ship into rocky waters to continue the metaphor, it actually is going to be Trump, oddly due to kind of personal reasons and not ideology.

00:44:53.640 But he is threatening their institutions.

00:44:56.600 When liberals say we want to maintain democracy or so, what they're really saying is, like, we want to just maintain this.

00:45:05.500 The way life works, we're going to manage it.

00:45:08.120 I don't disagree.

00:45:08.520 It's like Trump is really challenging it.

00:45:11.040 I think we're actually headed towards a constitutional crisis.

00:45:13.680 Yeah, I agree.

00:45:14.260 But I don't think he's challenging it by trying to institute kind of a progressive agenda or progressivism.

00:45:20.640 I think he's trying to move an agenda to a sane agenda, a sane agenda of not even if it's not complete isolationism, the immigration is the big one.

00:45:32.060 This is the thing that people have been upset about for the last 15 years.

00:45:37.240 They're so pissed off.

00:45:38.100 They can't see straight about the fact that our country is wide open when they see what's going on at the southern border right now with Biden basically just throwing it open.

00:45:47.540 Come on in, everybody.

00:45:49.040 Have a good time.

00:45:50.020 It's a big party over here.

00:45:51.600 We're going to put you up in hotels.

00:45:52.700 We're going to give you amnesty.

00:45:54.460 That is what I would expect from kind of the modern progressive status quo of let's get more in, more in, more in to complete this.

00:46:02.840 You know, I actually and he is a challenge to that.

00:46:06.040 That's the big one.

00:46:07.180 I actually don't think that Trumpism is entirely about the border.

00:46:12.760 It's hold on.

00:46:13.780 Hold on.

00:46:14.060 Let me let me just make a point.

00:46:15.360 I think it's actually about a bigger generational and demographic anxiety that conservatives feel and they have no place to push that energy outside of the border.

00:46:28.760 So it's unquestionably things have changed not everywhere, not not where I live, not where a lot of other people live.

00:46:38.020 But you don't, as they say, Tucker Carlson would say or whatever, you don't recognize your hometown due to demographic change.

00:46:47.660 And I would say also that is and it's not just illegal immigrant Mexicans.

00:46:52.160 Illegal immigrant people coming from Mexico, they'll come, they'll go, they'll set up shop here, they'll work in agriculture, they'll go home, they'll send their money home.

00:47:00.060 That's a kind of transitory thing.

00:47:02.920 We have legal immigration that has fundamentally changed the demographics of the country.

00:47:10.920 And it's changed at the elite level before it even changed in your small town.

00:47:15.640 So Princeton University has a minority white student body coming in since like 2020.

00:47:23.620 Your local news had a kind of like brunette woman and a black guy as the anchors like 30 years ago.

00:47:31.600 Domestic Americans see themselves demonstrating a different this as being under siege.

00:47:36.080 They have to get it.

00:47:36.900 I get it.

00:47:37.280 You know, laying siege to the southern states and then the Democrat policy of pumping in one to one and a half million per year.

00:47:44.980 I get it.

00:47:45.640 Yes, a massive demographic.

00:47:46.860 I get it.

00:47:47.260 There's a general anxiety that's in many ways unspeakable.

00:47:50.140 I'm willing to talk about it.

00:47:51.800 Seriously, most people, they don't want to.

00:47:54.580 It's nasty.

00:47:55.360 You're going to be called racist, et cetera.

00:47:56.920 That anxiety gave birth to Trumpism and the wall meme.

00:48:02.640 I would say that that's not progressivism in any way, shape or form.

00:48:08.960 Every generation goes through this and you can actually read about it going back to antiquity.

00:48:14.280 It's fascinating to read like carved in a stone tablet.

00:48:17.120 What have we lost as the next generation is taking over and they shun our values and our traditions?

00:48:22.140 Yeah.

00:48:22.940 Everybody goes through this where they remember being a kid and the fun things, the good things their parents gave to them.

00:48:29.300 Yeah.

00:48:29.460 I think the problem right now is the acceleration of loss.

00:48:32.740 So, you know, my grandpa, my parents, my friends, grandparents have said like, you know, back when I was a kid, this is how things were.

00:48:40.780 Things got different.

00:48:41.520 Technology changed.

00:48:43.180 The way we did things changed.

00:48:44.440 Today, a good example is we talk about free speech.

00:48:47.560 We're all about free speech.

00:48:48.400 George Cohen to jail for swearing.

00:48:50.200 I think more than once.

00:48:51.860 We had blasphemy laws back in the day.

00:48:53.760 Yeah.

00:48:53.900 So when we talk about America back in the 1800s or the late 1700s at its formation and they said free speech was in the Constitution.

00:49:01.420 Yeah.

00:49:01.600 But there were blasphemy laws.

00:49:02.840 It didn't matter what the laws were written down.

00:49:05.720 You would go to jail for speaking out of line with the local community.

00:49:10.220 No question.

00:49:10.620 I think what we're seeing now is social media as a major factor, as well as a massive, massive unfettered migration has ripped it away way too quickly.

00:49:23.000 And so I look at how things used to be pre-Internet.

00:49:27.080 The people on the TV would tell you what was so and people believed it.

00:49:30.640 And this was always pushing the country in a liberal direction, a progressive direction.

00:49:35.280 And I mean by the modern definition of things, acceptance of various groups.

00:49:40.000 Now, you know, it was gay marriage.

00:49:41.720 Now it's LGBTQIA2S plus or whatever.

00:49:45.340 The Internet emerges and all of a sudden real conservatives had a means to defend their culture and create cultural pockets that actually formed a barrier.

00:49:54.680 Wait, wait, wait.

00:49:55.120 But back up for me, Tim, because I'm not really sure I agree with this take.

00:50:00.100 Conservatives already had that means through AM radio.

00:50:02.940 So AM radio, pre-Internet, the Rush Limbaugh's of the world.

00:50:06.420 When did Rush Limbaugh first come onto the scene and AM radio got big?

00:50:10.400 90s.

00:50:10.680 90s.

00:50:11.020 Right.

00:50:11.360 Yeah, 90s.

00:50:12.200 This was pre-Internet world.

00:50:13.700 Tim's right.

00:50:14.520 Look, that's the same time as the Internet, actually.

00:50:17.820 Yeah.

00:50:18.440 No, people didn't have – not only did they not really have much access to the Internet, but –

00:50:25.400 The emergence of the Internet – so I agree, Rush Limbaugh burst onto the scene to a massive audience much larger than the Internet.

00:50:31.660 It is still around the same time that we saw conservatives begin to defend their culture from a media machine that was intent on destroying it.

00:50:39.340 Yeah, but I think that the AM radio and these guys like Michael Savage and Rush Limbaugh and tons of these guys – I mean, Savage was talking about, what, culture, borders, language all throughout the 90s, right?

00:50:51.900 But I don't think this is countering the point that I'm making.

00:50:55.400 Yeah, it's not – let me, in a weird way, defend the liberals once again because I guess that's my job on this show.

00:51:02.940 My new – yeah, my new identity.

00:51:06.100 But, okay, there's a –

00:51:07.520 Liberal Spencer.

00:51:08.260 Hold on.

00:51:09.140 I'm sure they love the fact that Richard Spencer is taking their side.

00:51:13.120 They're just like, come on, you're on board now.

00:51:15.360 Real quick, sorry, sorry.

00:51:16.400 Did you see – I don't know if this is real, but Fuentes called AOC America First.

00:51:20.460 Is that real?

00:51:20.860 Yeah.

00:51:21.340 And she said, how dare you?

00:51:22.880 Yeah, yeah.

00:51:23.680 Yeah, that's the greeting you receive.

00:51:27.360 So Jacques Ellul is a very interesting author.

00:51:31.800 He wrote about the technological society.

00:51:34.460 So we used to have a center of society that was the church, that was your local town involving agriculture and so on.

00:51:43.660 Of course, in the 19th century, you're moving into cities.

00:51:46.600 You're working nine to five.

00:51:48.340 You've left the land.

00:51:49.660 You're going to church less.

00:51:52.340 They have less authority.

00:51:54.540 And so you need some sort of structuring of your mind and life.

00:52:00.040 He actually called this propaganda in a different sense than that word that we know today outright.

00:52:06.740 Without the negative connotations.

00:52:07.340 Yeah, without the negative connotations of like a pro-war bonds poster or whatever.

00:52:11.720 He called it propaganda.

00:52:12.740 What it was is you vote this one day in November.

00:52:16.020 You might go to church on Sunday.

00:52:17.920 You watch the nightly news at 5 p.m.

00:52:20.180 They tell you what's important, all the news that's fit to print.

00:52:23.100 You subscribe to your local paper, maybe the Wall Street Journal, maybe the New York Times.

00:52:27.300 That was my life in the 90s as well.

00:52:29.520 Now, you could say that they were like slowly destroying culture, promoting liberalism, and I won't really disagree with you.

00:52:37.520 But they also structured people's lives.

00:52:41.760 And, you know, I mean, it's interesting that I'm on the Tim Pool show because I think you're in a way part of this.

00:52:48.520 I think you're part of something in a way that you have mixed feelings about.

00:52:53.520 And that's interesting.

00:52:54.740 What is that?

00:52:56.740 Hold on.

00:52:57.260 The fragmentation of America.

00:52:59.660 So everyone watched the World Series.

00:53:02.940 Everyone read the paper in the morning.

00:53:04.480 Everyone watched Tom Brokaw or Cronkite at 5 p.m. or whenever.

00:53:09.780 That was a unified country.

00:53:11.520 Now, someone who's watching your show is speaking a different language and is totally disconnected and isolated from someone watching MSNBC or someone watching.

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00:54:46.400 Did I mention that we care?

00:54:47.420 In Vaush or something like that.

00:54:51.940 And that is – you have to – even if you're a part of it, even if you obviously support it, there is a certain tragedy in there.

00:54:59.380 And so –

00:55:00.720 But I completely agree with you.

00:55:02.120 Yeah.

00:55:02.540 That was the point that I was making.

00:55:04.100 It wasn't always this way.

00:55:05.300 Each state, each community had their own paper.

00:55:08.060 They had their own community.

00:55:08.960 They would meet at church.

00:55:09.800 They would discuss things with the community at church.

00:55:11.260 They would believe things based on how they lived and where they lived.

00:55:14.240 With the rise of mass media and the conglomeration of it, you ended up with massive corporations in league with the government.

00:55:21.720 We learned this in the 70s with – what was the name of the hearing?

00:55:25.540 Luke knows this better than me.

00:55:27.120 The Warren Commission, I think it was, where the CIA was infiltrating media organizations.

00:55:32.000 They had – what you're saying, Richard, they said, everybody watches Broca.

00:55:37.560 Everybody watches the World Series.

00:55:39.220 This is the pinnacle of culture and we control it.

00:55:42.020 With the rise of – in the 90s – actually, Rush Limbaugh pulled it up.

00:55:45.900 88 was the start of his show.

00:55:47.200 Syndication, I believe, national syndication was 92 or something like this.

00:55:51.440 Drudge Report was 95.

00:55:52.440 This is when conservatives started saying they're intent on destroying us.

00:55:58.700 They are saying things that are not true.

00:56:01.180 They are insulting the way I live, but they controlled the broadcast towers.

00:56:06.640 Things started to flatten out as to what you're describing.

00:56:09.780 And now I think a big component of the culture war is that for the first time, those who believe in conservative values have a massive foothold in media.

00:56:21.140 In all media, yep.

00:56:21.820 Yes.

00:56:22.440 But it's becoming mainstream.

00:56:23.740 The irony –

00:56:24.160 The corporate press is –

00:56:25.280 Yeah, it's starting to.

00:56:26.380 But this is my pushback on this is that –

00:56:29.280 So, I mean, you're right when it comes to kind of the mass corporate media.

00:56:34.680 They were structuring people's lives and conservatives came on the scene, those bastards.

00:56:38.940 And in the 90s with their AM waves, they started creating waves and hitting back it.

00:56:43.480 Tom Brokaw told you to eat your macaroni and cheese at night, okay?

00:56:46.800 And whatever it is that he's commercializing, taking away their precious structure.

00:56:52.260 But the truth is, is that they were moving towards that anyway.

00:56:55.680 They were moving towards this kind of – even this control grid of inclusivity, which is moving that way in mainstream media.

00:57:03.140 It was inevitable.

00:57:03.840 It would be inevitable even without the internet for there to be massive cultural pushback to this, even if there was just the man on the screen and the propaganda machine, 1984 style.

00:57:13.100 Well, that might be true.

00:57:14.780 We obviously had massive disruption before the internet.

00:57:17.640 The 1960s was a massive generational disruption.

00:57:20.400 And the 70s.

00:57:21.740 And the 80s.

00:57:23.740 I agree.

00:57:25.220 It's coming through music.

00:57:27.360 But this is where we are now.

00:57:29.240 And we can't talk to each other.

00:57:31.560 People are in their own echo chambers.

00:57:33.600 Can you name a sitcom on NBC?

00:57:37.860 Like, name one.

00:57:39.100 On NBC?

00:57:40.920 I watch CBS.

00:57:42.140 Okay.

00:57:42.920 Well, okay.

00:57:43.760 My rhetorical point is basically that when I was growing up, everyone knew Cosby Show, Family Ties, Cheers.

00:57:51.800 TGIF.

00:57:52.720 TGIF.

00:57:53.340 Look, my mom would order – my dad would come home late.

00:57:56.520 My mom would order Domino's pizza, and we'd all be together.

00:57:59.860 We don't have a nation like that anymore.

00:58:02.200 And that is a tragedy.

00:58:03.800 And I want to make this point.

00:58:05.500 I've been dying to make it because I'm watching that show Evil on CBS.

00:58:08.180 Have you guys ever seen it?

00:58:09.280 No.

00:58:09.420 Well, it sounds good.

00:58:10.340 It is the weirdest show.

00:58:13.320 It's pro-Catholic.

00:58:15.200 I'm not kidding.

00:58:16.220 One of the main characters just got ordained as a priest.

00:58:18.560 They talk about how God – like, there's very much a big message about being with God and how God will protect you.

00:58:24.020 And there's demons.

00:58:25.660 Satanists are viewed – like, there's a character who's got a Satanist church, and he's just lying for money.

00:58:31.780 And he's laughing about it.

00:58:33.060 They overtly show demons torturing people and stuff like this.

00:58:37.080 But then there's this scene I just saw in season three.

00:58:40.740 And this is the point about mainstream narratives and culture.

00:58:44.820 The mother has – one of the main characters has four kids.

00:58:47.760 They're all girls.

00:58:48.240 And she says, we're going to make a family Ten Commandments that you must follow.

00:58:52.300 And the first one is, thou shalt not lie to mom.

00:58:54.820 And then one girl goes, but can we lie to other people?

00:58:57.760 And she goes, no.

00:58:58.800 And she goes, what if we're hiding Jews like with Hitler or we're hiding immigrants like with Trump?

00:59:03.600 Hiding immigrants like with Trump.

00:59:05.240 And she goes, those are good points, but we'll talk about that later.

00:59:08.600 That's the kind of stuff they inject in these mass corporation shows.

00:59:13.780 And I suppose the argument from someone like Seamus – or perhaps you.

00:59:18.200 You're not Catholic, are you?

00:59:19.320 No, I'm Orthodox.

00:59:20.360 Okay.

00:59:21.760 They work for the Catholic Church and things like this.

00:59:24.980 I think the argument would be they're trying to inject their message to Catholics.

00:59:29.420 So they're trying to Trojan horse it.

00:59:31.360 But the idea that in a mainstream show –

00:59:33.680 Catholics love that message.

00:59:35.240 But that's why I'm saying – I'm not sure I would agree with that argument.

00:59:39.220 Like they're actually showing Catholics as the good guy and Satan worshippers as the bad guy.

00:59:43.200 And Baphomet is the bad guy and things like this.

00:59:45.580 Literally, there's a giant Baphomet like goat creature that is the evil demon.

00:59:49.440 But then they say things like Trump is like Hitler with the Jews but with immigrants.

00:59:53.740 And they say that really quickly and passively as something you must accept.

00:59:56.700 Yeah, but that's how you sell the best lies is with mostly truth, right?

01:00:01.120 So you sell kind of the best lies if there's mostly truth behind it.

01:00:05.360 So it wouldn't surprise me if they had a great dynamic with good and evil and then it gets – it piques your interest and you're involved and then they kind of associate these things which aren't evil with evil.

01:00:16.160 This is actually a well-known social engineering and manipulation technique is to make an argument that is not your real argument.

01:00:25.620 Within your argument, you presuppose something as truth as an aside.

01:00:28.900 Which is to say something like, look, I think Trump is bad because his tax policy does X, Y, and Z.

01:00:38.140 For instance, when China did A, B, and C, Donald Trump's response was the real argument I'm trying to make is about China's policies.

01:00:45.620 And I'm masking it by assuming it's true within a separate argument I'm trying to convince you of.

01:00:49.840 So they make a show.

01:00:50.720 They say here's what's going on.

01:00:51.560 And then a split second they say Trump is going to attack immigrants like Hitler attacked the Jews was the point they were making in that show.

01:00:57.520 So anyway, to wrap this up, if it were not for AM radio at the time, which now definitely has shifted more to podcasting and social media, that would be the presupposed truth when these comedians go on late night and just assert a thing is true like Colbert does.

01:01:16.800 I can't remember what it was.

01:01:17.980 It was with the civil fraud case and Trump and Colbert in a frantic rant just asserts these things as fact, omitting all of the key details of the case.

01:01:27.540 And there are fortunately substantially less people who watch that show today than used to.

01:01:32.220 So their influence is waning.

01:01:33.760 Were it not for the rise of technology and the capabilities of your average person to point a camera at their face and say whatever they want and broadcast that message, it'd be 25 million people watching Colbert say that.

01:01:47.220 They'd all show up at work the next day and just say, it is the truth.

01:01:49.580 Trump has done this.

01:01:50.280 But the tragedy is you need to control a society like the, the, the church had a social function.

01:01:58.160 The church wasn't just some private thing you did on weekends.

01:02:00.560 The church organized society told you what's up, what's down, what's left and right.

01:02:04.620 There needs to be some mechanism for that.

01:02:06.580 And the question is what, like, can a nation persist once that is broken down, once there is not some central apparatus that is informing your basic conceptions, can a nation exist?

01:02:22.780 Yeah, but I don't think it, I don't think it's liberal progressive state or anarchy.

01:02:26.720 Like, it seems like such a kind of massive spread here to say, if it's not some type of centralized progressive state that tells you what to eat for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with the sitcoms, then it has to be anarchy.

01:02:41.540 I just said an apparatus to control the psyche of the nation.

01:02:44.460 That's what I said.

01:02:45.300 I think we all, I think we'd all agree.

01:02:46.780 Would you prefer if every major corporation, Disney, maintained Christian moral frameworking on all their content?

01:02:54.160 Yeah, I would prefer it.

01:02:55.320 Absolutely.

01:02:55.680 Absolutely.

01:02:56.140 That's the culture war.

01:02:57.300 And this is why I often tell people laws don't matter.

01:02:59.980 The laws matter in that if you break them, you go to jail.

01:03:02.180 Sure.

01:03:02.420 But whether or not a police officer is willing to enforce that law is more dependent on the culture.

01:03:06.200 Example, in West Virginia, drag shows in public are illegal, including children with them as an aggravated offense.

01:03:13.400 And the police, the DA, and the state will do nothing to stop it because they're terrified of the cultural ramification.

01:03:18.780 But I think that culture, just like politics is downwind of culture, I think culture is downwind of theology.

01:03:23.120 I think that what informs culture at its base is always theological.

01:03:29.080 And it's always the ethics behind that theology, which then moves into the mainstream.

01:03:33.820 And if you want to know why you have such a cultural breakdown now, you can just look at how effed up the theology is.

01:03:40.300 How messed up the theology is.

01:03:42.500 It's across the board.

01:03:44.180 Nobody can agree on any of this.

01:03:46.140 Well, what is it?

01:03:46.680 Like, they think there's neither Greek nor Jew, man or woman.

01:03:49.900 We're all one.

01:03:50.700 Is that what it is?

01:03:51.200 But it could be the idea of monism, sure.

01:03:54.920 Or it could be the idea of, like you were saying, there's no central Catholic kind of synergistic relationship with the state anymore.

01:04:01.880 So I don't disagree.

01:04:03.040 My point was simply, as Richard was mentioning, an apparatus of culture.

01:04:06.560 I'm pretty sure that every conservative would love it if every television network, every movie studio maintained Christian moral framework for all their content.

01:04:15.920 The problem is that degenerate leftists have infiltrated major institutions.

01:04:21.340 The New York Times is a really great example.

01:04:23.520 You've had people who have used to work there quitting saying it's been taken over.

01:04:27.060 The Washington Post is a really great example.

01:04:29.140 Their executive editor comes in and says, no one is reading what you're writing.

01:04:32.480 This ship is sinking.

01:04:33.960 And the response from the staff was, have you considered hiring black women?

01:04:36.860 I'm not kidding.

01:04:37.640 They said to him, well, why aren't you hiring more black women?

01:04:40.140 And it's like, that doesn't matter to whether or not the person will be good at what they do.

01:04:44.440 So long story short, if there was cultural, I guess, unanimity within certain bounds, this would be a good thing.

01:04:58.440 Yeah.

01:04:58.920 Well, I mean, if you had a homogenous culture, but you have to have glue for that.

01:05:02.600 That's be some glue that holds it together.

01:05:04.340 I completely agree.

01:05:04.640 I agree with that.

01:05:05.600 But the conservatives...

01:05:06.120 Hang on, hang on, hang on.

01:05:07.400 So what Richard's saying is, he goes, okay, there's kind of like a centralized kind of government, liberal authority that's kind of telling you what it is that you need to do.

01:05:16.500 And it's kind of structuring your day, right?

01:05:18.680 And the kind of Christian response to this is, yeah, I mean, okay, I guess they can tell you that Kellogg's Frosted Flakes is okay to eat.

01:05:25.640 You know, that's fine.

01:05:26.800 But it's not really giving you any kind of grounding for aughts, what you should be doing, right?

01:05:31.360 It says, here's what you can do, here's kind of within the framework of society, but our aughts of what we're supposed to be moving towards.

01:05:37.140 Should we be having kids?

01:05:38.060 Should we be having a family?

01:05:39.340 What does that look like?

01:05:40.480 Does that look like two dads?

01:05:41.480 Does that look like a dad and a mom?

01:05:42.860 Does that look like two dads?

01:05:44.140 Does that look like polygony?

01:05:46.940 I agree with you.

01:05:47.860 But liberalism had a master narrative.

01:05:50.280 And as I said, you know, 30 minutes ago, that master narrative is breaking down.

01:05:54.940 And it's, yeah, it's the bottom of the barrel that-

01:05:57.140 But it was always going to break down.

01:05:58.840 Well, okay, all master narratives are always going to break down.

01:06:01.320 Yeah, it was always going to, but this one was going to accelerate itself to its own demise.

01:06:05.440 I don't necessarily agree that all, they all break down, master narratives break down.

01:06:10.220 The liberal one certainly does, because it requires a function in the real world to maintain itself.

01:06:15.580 If everyone is equal, there's no more fight.

01:06:18.240 So they constantly have to find someone who is not to maintain their battle.

01:06:21.860 But I look at the traditional moral framework in the United States,

01:06:25.600 enlightenment principles and Christian moral values.

01:06:28.460 I don't see that as a master narrative ever breaking down without an external attack to destroy it.

01:06:35.100 No, I think it will lead to what we are.

01:06:38.380 I mean, I guess-

01:06:39.320 Enlightenment principles.

01:06:39.840 That is liberalism now.

01:06:41.760 That is what progressivism came out of.

01:06:43.660 I'm a bit of a Hegelian here.

01:06:45.080 Like, we understand what America was because we're living what America is.

01:06:49.860 In the sense that you can claim, rightly, that the Founding Fathers would be totally-

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01:07:53.980 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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01:08:21.240 Did I mention that we care?

01:08:23.980 You know, their minds would boggle if they walked through the streets of San Francisco.

01:08:29.000 I obviously agree with that statement.

01:08:31.380 They would scream, but it doesn't matter because all that means is that they didn't

01:08:35.960 fully understand their religion or their ideology that they put forward.

01:08:40.500 America is what it is.

01:08:43.000 Like what exists now reveals to you what the root idea was at the beginning.

01:08:51.340 I think they did understand their ideology.

01:08:53.420 They had limited suffrage for a reason.

01:08:55.680 They didn't want everybody and their brother to vote for a reason.

01:08:58.740 They didn't think that the general America...

01:09:00.820 You wouldn't have to brainwash these people, would you, Richard, if you didn't give them

01:09:04.240 any political power?

01:09:05.640 You wouldn't need to always have them brainwashed constantly.

01:09:07.940 It wouldn't even be necessary.

01:09:08.800 Why is it always successful?

01:09:09.680 Why is it always successful?

01:09:11.420 It's not always successful.

01:09:12.740 It's a brand new experiment.

01:09:13.980 Universal suffrage, brand new.

01:09:15.580 Why has the American narrative been towards liberalism?

01:09:21.340 And conservatism, I would say, is largely vacuous and negative.

01:09:27.440 I, okay, go on.

01:09:29.420 I think where we are in this country is an obvious, it's an obvious endpoint from where

01:09:36.200 the founding fathers were to where we are now that they could not have predicted.

01:09:40.520 I think that asserting a moral value or a moral principle or enshrining that in your

01:09:46.900 government, people often don't realize it, all that is required for evil to triumph is

01:09:53.720 that good men do nothing.

01:09:55.840 The founding fathers assumption of let's enshrine these values, let's, and then the, I believe

01:10:01.860 it was the federal, was it the, was it the anti-federalists who wanted, no, it was the

01:10:05.020 federalists who wanted the bill of rights or was the anti-federal, I can't, I mix them

01:10:07.580 up, they wanted the bill of rights, they said, we want to make sure that this is written down

01:10:11.620 in the constitution.

01:10:12.240 So they proposed the constitution, they say, no, no, no, no, 17 articles, they give us

01:10:15.260 the federalists, right?

01:10:15.900 Yeah, I think so.

01:10:16.440 Madison was a federalist and then Jefferson was the anti-federalist.

01:10:19.540 Right.

01:10:19.840 It was the federalists who wanted the bill of rights?

01:10:21.560 Yeah.

01:10:21.840 Either, either way, the point was.

01:10:23.200 Make your point, yeah.

01:10:23.680 Right.

01:10:24.240 And so the, the, the assumptions made are, this is a good thing that we're going to allow

01:10:31.040 the people to have a say in their government.

01:10:33.280 What they, that doesn't mean they're like, this should lead to a point of universal

01:10:37.560 suffrage.

01:10:38.080 No, that was not the intention at all.

01:10:39.820 All men are created equal.

01:10:41.460 That, that root idea has consequences.

01:10:44.000 Yeah, but you know, the idea of the Christian ethic, and always the idea of the Christian

01:10:48.740 ethic is that the ontology of men and women, not the same, not the same.

01:10:53.060 So, so this idea, this idea that the Christian ethicists of the time believed in the universalism

01:11:01.820 of suffrage, meaning spiritual equality is fucking insane.

01:11:05.200 They, they, they might, they didn't believe in, in, in releasing the slaves, or at least

01:11:08.960 a lot of them.

01:11:09.580 That was, that was obviously a massive, you know, issue during the constitutional convention.

01:11:12.560 Or letting women vote.

01:11:13.520 What I'm saying is, for a good reason.

01:11:16.180 Those root ideas in 1776, I mean, look, Samuel, if you go to like the Northeast, Samuel Adams

01:11:22.980 was kind of, Thomas Paine, you have a book here.

01:11:25.040 These are like left-wing rabble-rousers, the, uh, imagining a new age, imagining a new

01:11:31.280 age.

01:11:32.100 Um, so what I'm saying is, root ideas will have consequences.

01:11:36.040 Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner who promoted, at the end of the day, an ideology that would

01:11:42.720 overturn Monticello.

01:11:44.380 But so, so, so let me, let me wrap up that point I was making.

01:11:47.080 Yeah.

01:11:47.320 For, for, for one, uh, Jefferson was opposed to slavery insofar as you could be at the

01:11:52.440 time.

01:11:52.740 Um, but no, this, this is, this is a, it's, it seems, it seems paradoxical.

01:11:56.520 It's not.

01:11:56.860 They had it out, they had it outlawed.

01:11:58.440 It was universally outlawed.

01:11:59.940 The thing is, is it was all grandfathered.

01:12:01.980 It's like, it's like saying, uh, I oppose the federal reserve and want to see it abolished.

01:12:06.040 I use the banks, I get bank loans, I have mortgages.

01:12:08.960 And one could argue, why didn't he just give up those slaves?

01:12:11.980 Because there's a bit of a tinge of hypocrisy in all of it.

01:12:14.860 But, uh, famously he wanted to include one of the grievances in the Declaration of Independence

01:12:20.480 was that it was the crown that brought slaves here and has now used them to levy war against

01:12:24.900 us.

01:12:25.540 But there, I believe it was South Carolina and Georgia would not have joined the movement

01:12:29.340 for independence if they had a staunch anti-slavery notion that this will be the direction we go.

01:12:33.420 So that being said, my, the ultimate point is Frederick Douglass, dude, amazing.

01:12:39.460 He actually, one of the, uh, points he made is that you have written into your own constitutions

01:12:44.500 of your values, all men are created equal.

01:12:46.540 I dare you.

01:12:47.680 I challenge you to believe that.

01:12:49.560 Right.

01:12:49.700 And people got pissed.

01:12:50.780 They were like, no, how dare you?

01:12:52.500 Like we should have slaves.

01:12:53.440 And he was like, these are your words, not mine.

01:12:55.320 And let us, but let's remember too, that, um, that enshrining this in a declaration, it's

01:13:02.940 wonderful propaganda, but it was not meaningfully put in our constitution.

01:13:07.400 So it was not meaningfully put.

01:13:09.260 Well, neither were orthodox values.

01:13:11.660 Universal.

01:13:12.200 So yeah, I think, I think that a lot of baseline Christian ethical values were put in.

01:13:16.820 Well, it's fair to say.

01:13:17.740 So like originally the colonies all had state religions.

01:13:21.800 They all, all of them.

01:13:22.720 It's fair to say that they assumed those because that, that they lived in the, um, 18th and

01:13:28.160 early 19th century.

01:13:29.140 It's fair to say that.

01:13:30.020 But the fact is they didn't do that.

01:13:32.360 They didn't establish a church.

01:13:34.100 There were multiple churches and states, congregations.

01:13:36.120 No, they let states establish the church.

01:13:38.080 That's what I just said.

01:13:38.980 But they didn't actually create that.

01:13:41.220 They created a secular humanist constitution.

01:13:41.940 They couldn't create a national church because of Protestantism.

01:13:44.800 That's the only reason.

01:13:45.880 This is the funny thing about why the founding fathers didn't want state religion.

01:13:50.540 They were like, well, we all agree.

01:13:53.580 Everybody believes in Christ.

01:13:54.700 We just kind of have different branches of Christianity.

01:13:56.800 So we probably shouldn't enshrine one of them.

01:13:59.180 They, I don't know if they realized that meant where we would be in 200 years with.

01:14:04.440 Well, did Jefferson not realize that being that he edited the Bible and he, his, he did

01:14:10.160 try, he did try to get rid of state religions.

01:14:12.180 Gravestone.

01:14:12.700 He said the freedom of religion in Virginia was like his finest accomplishment.

01:14:16.600 I mean, there was that ideology.

01:14:18.140 No, no, hang on.

01:14:19.240 There was, there was some, there was some of these guys who were deists.

01:14:23.300 Okay.

01:14:23.740 And the deists.

01:14:24.440 Most of them.

01:14:25.000 Yeah.

01:14:25.200 Not most of them.

01:14:26.220 Most of the, most of the, all of the contributors to the constitution were not deists, but there

01:14:29.620 were a few prominent deists.

01:14:31.100 The thing is though, is that it was understood that you had the 10th amendment and that if the

01:14:36.740 federal government wasn't making a national religion, that the states could make their

01:14:40.620 own perspective religions.

01:14:41.920 Those idea that the first amendment created some barrier from states creating their own

01:14:48.000 is fuck.

01:14:48.800 That's crazy.

01:14:49.440 I agree with you on a, on a kind of legalistic framework, the Congregationalist church in

01:14:55.620 Massachusetts was a long time state church in effect.

01:14:59.340 But what, isn't it remarkable that eventually all of those state constitutions outlawed any

01:15:06.820 sort of state church?

01:15:07.980 Isn't it remarkable that without exception, we went in one direction?

01:15:13.180 Isn't that remarkable?

01:15:14.200 Doesn't that reveal something about the time?

01:15:16.520 I agree with you.

01:15:17.380 The ideology at the heart of the founding.

01:15:19.260 That enlightenment values were always going to lead to kind of progressive degeneracy.

01:15:24.760 That was always going to be the case.

01:15:26.380 I don't disagree.

01:15:27.220 I'm saying that that's bad.

01:15:29.200 And I'm also saying that when we're talking about in modernity, conservation, we're really

01:15:34.960 only talking about one thing, conservation of non-degenerate Christian ethics.

01:15:39.800 That's really what everybody's talking about.

01:15:41.740 Even though it's, they pretend it's subtext, they pretend that it's kind of outside of the

01:15:47.720 scope of the conversation politically.

01:15:49.660 It really isn't.

01:15:50.460 That's really what they're all talking about.

01:15:52.080 You live in an enlightened nation, whether you like it or not.

01:15:55.760 That's what America is.

01:15:57.680 Okay.

01:15:58.260 So I agree that there's enlightenment principles, but I don't think everybody lives as though

01:16:02.660 that's true.

01:16:03.460 No, I don't think so.

01:16:04.840 I think that enlightenment principles lead to degradation, degeneracy.

01:16:08.140 But I think you can still have stabilization absent progressivism.

01:16:12.500 I don't know why you need to have progressivism to stabilize the nation.

01:16:15.540 Is your argument that enlightenment principles lead to degeneration?

01:16:18.900 They have to, yeah.

01:16:20.300 Yeah.

01:16:20.980 They're a natural consequence.

01:16:22.680 And I think this is correct.

01:16:24.200 That's why I was saying before, I think where we are now is a natural end result of the

01:16:28.820 Founding Fathers laying things out.

01:16:30.460 The issue is not that the ideas were bad.

01:16:32.900 The issue is, you know, we had a conversation a couple of years ago on Tim Kessler.

01:16:36.820 I do think the ideas were bad, honestly.

01:16:39.000 Some ideas are bad.

01:16:39.920 But we had a conversation about gay marriage and there were conservatives saying gay marriage

01:16:44.120 should never have been allowed because it was a slippery slope that led to where we

01:16:47.940 are with all these bad things in public, you know, children being exposed to things,

01:16:52.380 the grooming problem, the books.

01:16:54.320 And I disagree.

01:16:55.680 My argument, just because you open the door to one thing doesn't mean you should tolerate

01:17:00.320 anything that comes after it.

01:17:01.800 The issue is not that the idea of gay marriage is bad.

01:17:05.120 Now, if you're a Christian, I totally understand why you would think that.

01:17:06.720 But the problem is weak men who allow bad things.

01:17:10.800 So if we if we come into to agree, fine, in the privacy of your home, you can do whatever

01:17:15.360 you want, just not in public, not around kids, not in schools.

01:17:19.000 What happens later is weak men continue to tolerate over and over and over again.

01:17:24.580 And so the argument I've made, and it's and it's somewhat facetious, is that the problem

01:17:30.180 ultimately was white Christians are weak people, especially when they're when you look

01:17:34.440 relatively to Muslims, Muslims do not tolerate this, that the conservative Muslim nations

01:17:40.060 are very bad on the issue.

01:17:43.080 And I'm speaking lightly on how bad they are on the issue.

01:17:45.520 But if you look to even places like Dearborn, Michigan, they do not care for what our laws

01:17:50.540 are in this country.

01:17:51.240 They will do what they want.

01:17:52.460 You look at places in the UK where they have their women have to have to wear niqab and

01:17:56.860 hijab.

01:17:57.520 How they protest LGBTQ, BTQ stuff.

01:18:00.820 I had a friend in Chicago whose family were Muslim.

01:18:04.920 They would not allow any man into the house.

01:18:07.860 The only only family members were allowed in because the women were there and the women

01:18:11.160 were covered.

01:18:12.440 Conservative Christian men very much are very tolerant and they tolerate everything.

01:18:18.460 And as the generations progress, they're always willing to accept a little bit more

01:18:20.880 tolerance.

01:18:21.560 Protestant Christian men are very tolerant.

01:18:25.300 Give me a break.

01:18:26.180 Catholics vote the Democrats more than Protestants, too.

01:18:30.520 Protestants and Mormons are the biggest supporters of MAGA.

01:18:34.120 And again, this is an issuance of modernity only in Catholicism.

01:18:38.680 But what you see, what's going on?

01:18:40.520 You see the guys like AF and the Fuentes crowd, this type of thing.

01:18:43.460 What are they all talking about?

01:18:45.280 Move it back.

01:18:46.280 Forget this.

01:18:47.220 Forget whatever this new woke Catholic stuff is.

01:18:49.660 We're done with that.

01:18:50.360 Are they Catholics?

01:18:51.540 Yeah.

01:18:51.860 They're predominantly a Catholic organization.

01:18:54.900 Yes.

01:18:55.160 And they say, no, forget the degeneracy.

01:18:58.300 We're done with it.

01:18:59.140 You have even the Pope getting pressure from his base saying, no, because it's the bottom

01:19:03.860 up portion of that organization controls the money.

01:19:07.200 And they're not going to give it to you if the Pope is out there running a degen campaign.

01:19:10.940 They don't like it.

01:19:11.820 Yeah.

01:19:11.940 They're having a big, big trouble with it.

01:19:13.640 Orthodox nations, Eastern Europe.

01:19:15.360 They don't put up with shit.

01:19:16.900 They don't put up with none of it.

01:19:18.840 They'll go in and shut down your gay pride parade in five seconds.

01:19:22.160 Can we look at one?

01:19:23.320 You know, there's election map of like if only men voted.

01:19:25.960 Oh, yeah.

01:19:26.780 Can we look at an election map of only Catholics voted?

01:19:30.380 You mean inside the United States?

01:19:32.000 Yeah.

01:19:32.120 There's a lot of progressives, but it's very tiny here.

01:19:34.280 The footprint is tiny here.

01:19:35.380 Well, it's a much, much smaller footprint that Nick Fuentes is laying of we need to go

01:19:41.420 back to our traditions, which is monarchy.

01:19:43.640 Yeah, but what's going to happen is you're going to see as people move and move more towards

01:19:49.280 traditional, any type of traditional Christianity, they are going to become more and more conservative.

01:19:56.140 They have to.

01:19:56.760 And that's why they're moving towards traditional Christianity.

01:19:59.100 Even in the Protestant sects, which are blowing up, they're more conservative sects.

01:20:03.840 They are more conservative.

01:20:04.920 The ones that are more progressive, more liberal, have the rainbow flags outside their

01:20:08.300 churches.

01:20:08.760 They're being left in droves.

01:20:09.980 And you're going to see more and more and more of that.

01:20:12.300 I don't fully agree.

01:20:13.540 Excuse me.

01:20:14.100 I don't fully disagree with that.

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01:21:44.480 Interestingly, mainline Protestantism has had a little bit of a boost and recently.

01:21:49.200 Yeah.

01:21:49.420 And that might be aberrational or whatever.

01:21:52.120 Also, the Southern Baptist Convention continually declines.

01:21:57.480 That's because the Southern Baptist Convention is talking about ratifying female clergy and

01:22:01.860 LGBTQ.

01:22:03.200 Yeah, but unchurched people continues to rise.

01:22:06.560 In fact, unchurched and outright atheists are at the level in terms of the public as evangelicals

01:22:16.600 were in the Bush era.

01:22:18.220 Correct me if I'm wrong.

01:22:19.220 It's actually a remarkable thing.

01:22:19.980 Yes, it's true that secularism—

01:22:21.020 Secularism continues to rise, but it's because of the fractured Protestant belief structures.

01:22:27.460 Don't—stop blaming Protestants.

01:22:29.400 Give me a break.

01:22:30.000 I'm sorry, but it's—

01:22:31.100 This is making me—

01:22:32.260 The backbone—the backbone of Enlightenment principles was pushed by Protestants.

01:22:36.760 I don't know what you want me to tell you.

01:22:38.100 Italy is a Catholic country where you have far less church attendance in the United States

01:22:43.340 and you have a far lower birth rate.

01:22:44.960 So don't give me this nonsense that, like, the Catholics are going to save us or something.

01:22:49.560 Give me a break.

01:22:50.220 Who follows Enlightenment principles like most of Western Europe does?

01:22:54.560 Eastern Europe doesn't follow those principles and you don't see that.

01:22:57.680 But that's what you don't see.

01:22:59.220 That's due to the Soviet Union, ironically.

01:23:01.180 I want to point out—

01:23:02.000 There are far more atheists.

01:23:03.420 Russia is far more atheists than the United States.

01:23:04.900 Yeah, okay.

01:23:05.660 I just want to just quickly point out, because, you know, people like to argue against this,

01:23:09.480 but I don't believe it.

01:23:10.080 I believe that at the end of the day, all of this is stamp collecting when you look at

01:23:13.600 fertility rates.

01:23:14.720 Yeah.

01:23:15.920 You don't have kids.

01:23:16.740 You don't exist.

01:23:17.340 That's right.

01:23:17.600 And it is true that the left will try to indoctrinate young conservative kids and they succeeded

01:23:22.460 it, but so long as parents are becoming aware of the issue and keeping their kids safe,

01:23:27.940 40 years, this is going to be a big deal.

01:23:29.620 Not only that, but the chances of your children, if you're Christians and you have children,

01:23:34.620 chances are they're going to be Christian as well.

01:23:36.320 So it's like if you have Muslim parents, you're going to be Muslim, et cetera, et cetera.

01:23:39.340 So if you have four and the liberals get one, you're still three ahead.

01:23:42.640 If you're running a numbers game, the secularists, if you're running in the numbers game, the

01:23:46.540 secularists themselves are not doing so hot here.

01:23:49.780 Okay.

01:23:50.220 They're breeding far less than everybody else.

01:23:52.580 The staunch religious are breeding more than anybody else.

01:23:56.040 And if this doesn't sell you out there to have kids, you know, the more kids you have,

01:23:59.320 the higher likelihood one of them will become famous and rich and take care of you.

01:24:02.940 So, you know, have kids.

01:24:04.380 Well, also the other thing is, is it's better to have two than one because two, they take

01:24:08.700 care of each other.

01:24:09.760 Right?

01:24:09.960 So the thing is, it's like just from a practical, lazy standpoint, right?

01:24:15.280 Have more than one.

01:24:16.760 But we're not even having more than one on average.

01:24:19.220 And secularists, because they're nihilist, like you, Richard, move towards the nihilism.

01:24:24.560 Are you a nihilist?

01:24:25.480 There's no, there's no, he's a political nihilist, at least.

01:24:28.140 There's no good reason.

01:24:29.520 What does that, what does that mean?

01:24:30.180 I'm not a nihilist.

01:24:31.040 Well, come on, you keep on going for these kind of status quo argument for nihilism, really.

01:24:36.360 Isn't it accelerationism, ultimately, what you're after here?

01:24:40.320 Accelerationism, as defined as the worse, the better.

01:24:43.340 Let's just make it worse and worse and worse.

01:24:45.880 No.

01:24:46.520 I actually think Trump is a sort of accelerant.

01:24:50.060 But I wouldn't mind, we've got time, I wouldn't mind talking about the demographic issue.

01:24:54.520 Because I think they're kind of like countervailing forces.

01:24:57.160 And I don't, I don't know exactly how I feel, feel about this.

01:25:02.300 So what do you mean the demographic issue?

01:25:04.280 Evangelical, vis-a-vis, say, Anglicans or Episcopalians, my, you know, stomping grounds.

01:25:10.340 Evangelicals are having like three kids to Episcopalian one and a half or something, something like that.

01:25:18.380 So within a nation, more uncouth or you could say fundamentalist are having more babies than mainline high church people.

01:25:29.920 Between nations, that is also the case.

01:25:33.400 Now there's another countervailing force, which is that the, the, you bring in education, you bring in modernity, and that lowers, that is coinciding with lowering birth rates.

01:25:44.680 That happens all over the place.

01:25:46.200 That's happening in Mexico.

01:25:47.240 So people say like, you know, oh, the Mexicans are going to overwhelm us.

01:25:50.680 I'm not so sure.

01:25:51.720 They're going through their own demographic decline.

01:25:53.780 Iran is going through their declining.

01:25:55.440 Well, the whole world.

01:25:56.640 The only one that's not is Africa.

01:25:58.260 Well, no, no, in Israel.

01:25:59.320 Oh, okay.

01:25:59.760 Israel also isn't, so Israel surprisingly has the highest birth rates out of all Western nations because they have a mass IVF program.

01:26:07.020 Because they looked around and said, we're completely surrounded by people who want to kill us.

01:26:10.720 So we probably should boost our numbers.

01:26:13.700 It's 2.9 in Israel.

01:26:15.300 Yeah, it's because they had a mass IVF program.

01:26:18.480 And so here's what happened.

01:26:20.520 The patriot portion of this, the patriotic messaging, the propaganda.

01:26:25.120 If the governments of these nations begin a propaganda campaign saying, you're patriotic, go have sex with your wife and give us mini babies, right?

01:26:35.300 It doesn't take that much convincing.

01:26:37.160 Israel proved that it doesn't take that much convincing.

01:26:39.820 I don't disagree with this.

01:26:41.680 It's much easier, real quick.

01:26:42.680 Just all they have to do if they really wanted to boost the fertility rate in the United States is go to Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and change the algorithm to, I would say, 51% of posts on the front page are women with babies.

01:26:57.400 And then what happens is young women and young men see a mom and a dad with a kid getting millions and millions of views.

01:27:03.980 And they're like, ooh, I got to do that because I don't get famous.

01:27:06.520 But government propaganda exists with this.

01:27:08.700 So much of the stuff that we're talking about right now, honestly, I think could be fixed if you did just stuff like what you're talking about.

01:27:14.420 Started having society uphold family values.

01:27:20.020 Propaganda.

01:27:20.300 Well, yeah, I mean, it is propaganda, yeah.

01:27:22.660 But the fact of the matter is, like, the United States is propagandizing the American people anyways, right?

01:27:27.260 All of the LGBT stuff, all that stuff is a form of propaganda.

01:27:30.720 And it's not coming straight out of the government, but it's from the – it speaks to the zeitgeist.

01:27:35.740 I mean, it does, though.

01:27:36.360 It comes from NGOs, and they're definitely moving hand-in-hand with government entities.

01:27:40.960 That's the propaganda.

01:27:41.620 I think if a mom and a dad made Instagram videos where they were having kids and the algorithms were promoting that, I don't see that as propaganda.

01:27:50.340 Fine.

01:27:50.700 Let me give you an example.

01:27:52.640 It has been known for a long time that if you go on Facebook and write getting married or having a kid, it will show your post to everyone on your friends list.

01:28:01.920 So what people were doing for a while was they would put, OMG, I'm having a baby.

01:28:07.160 Okay, now that I've got your attention, we're doing a big party this Friday night.

01:28:09.600 If you want to come, send me a message because people are more likely to interact with marriage and baby news.

01:28:15.720 The algorithm promotes those words and posts.

01:28:18.480 It wasn't an intentional propagandistic thing.

01:28:20.560 It was an algorithmic thing that naturally occurred, and people started exploiting.

01:28:24.840 But my point ultimately is saying something that is true and good, I don't want to call it propaganda whether you do or not.

01:28:33.240 But someone being like, I have a baby and I'm so happy, this is so awesome, is different from being like, we need to eat the rich and having a company inject that message.

01:28:42.140 I understand you're saying propaganda has a negative connotation.

01:28:45.080 I get it.

01:28:45.560 But I think for the purpose of the conversation we're having when we're saying propaganda, we're not saying it's negative, positive.

01:28:51.100 We're just saying what we're talking about realistically is brainwashing.

01:28:54.760 How do we assist in brainwashing, right?

01:28:56.900 The point is just instead of showing alternative lifestyles as the goal or the highest, highest value in the country, show traditional lifestyles.

01:29:06.840 That's right.

01:29:07.080 And whether it's, it doesn't matter if it's Catholics or Episcopalians or Orthodox or whatever, it doesn't matter at all.

01:29:13.700 Just show families in, like, acting like they're so easily propagandized.

01:29:19.000 I got an idea.

01:29:21.180 Can we do an award ceremony for the biggest families?

01:29:24.840 And it's like the Grammys where we bring people out and it's like.

01:29:28.100 She has 38 kids.

01:29:29.760 I think you win a million dollars.

01:29:31.080 Yeah, here you go.

01:29:31.740 I think a certain controversial regime did that, in fact.

01:29:35.140 Who did?

01:29:36.180 A certain 20th century controversial regime did things like this.

01:29:41.120 That would actually sort of include the Soviet Union in that list.

01:29:44.280 So people have done this.

01:29:45.900 Okay.

01:29:46.080 So I agree with you in this religious.

01:29:48.680 I mean, they also use toilet paper.

01:29:50.280 So are you not going to use toilet paper?

01:29:52.260 I mean, I just, like.

01:29:53.780 We're in vehement agreement.

01:29:55.080 We're in vehement agreement.

01:29:56.420 They also ban smoking.

01:29:57.400 But anyway, what was that program?

01:30:00.980 Unless you're in a war.

01:30:01.840 Then it was okay.

01:30:02.580 Their baby-making program that produced ABBA.

01:30:05.140 Eurovision?

01:30:05.980 No.

01:30:06.880 Well, I was like, what?

01:30:08.580 When Hitler created Eurovision.

01:30:10.340 Oh, no, no, no.

01:30:11.580 I'm forgetting the name of it at the moment.

01:30:13.280 But it was a way for single mothers to get support.

01:30:16.220 But ABBA?

01:30:16.900 They actually produced ABBA out of that.

01:30:18.920 What?

01:30:19.240 It's a little known fact.

01:30:20.420 Yes.

01:30:20.980 Anyway, look it up.

01:30:23.960 But what was I saying?

01:30:26.680 Did you just use it with look it up?

01:30:27.960 Look that shit up.

01:30:29.080 So there was a – someone's going to say the term, and I'm going to remember it.

01:30:36.980 My brain is racked by COVID or whatever.

01:30:40.160 So there is the religious shall have more children and so on.

01:30:44.220 I agree with that.

01:30:45.000 There's also this massively secular global trend of declining fertility with the institution

01:30:52.260 of modern medicine, technology, education for women.

01:31:00.360 Industrialization.

01:31:01.440 Industrialization.

01:31:03.580 Et cetera.

01:31:05.040 So it's like, how are these things going to interact?

01:31:09.220 I could make – and I'm not sure where I come down on this, but I could argue that even

01:31:17.580 if all of these evangelicals have a bunch of kids, these kids are still going to turn

01:31:23.220 into liberals in a few generations.

01:31:25.400 Because there's a – there's the technological component, but there's also that deep spiritual

01:31:30.660 component, which isn't really being questioned.

01:31:34.200 Are evangelicals – and I'm just positing this, because I don't know exactly where

01:31:39.280 I fall on this – but are evangelicals kind of baby-making factories for future liberals?

01:31:44.920 I mean, they're going to be the only ones who are having the babies to make the future

01:31:49.560 liberals.

01:31:50.040 I know.

01:31:50.400 Is the ideology of –

01:31:51.680 You don't just pump out a baby fully grown as an evangelical Christian.

01:31:55.280 No, I get it.

01:31:55.800 I'm just saying that is the ideology of progressivism going to go away?

01:31:59.740 Because –

01:32:00.360 Right.

01:32:00.800 No.

01:32:01.240 That's the question.

01:32:01.760 The answer is no, it's not going to, but it can be greatly curtailed, and the way that

01:32:06.940 it can be greatly curtailed is it's just a numbers game.

01:32:09.460 Ultimately, it comes into a numbers game.

01:32:11.620 Progressives whittle themselves off because they become nihilists.

01:32:14.320 If you tell men, look, you can go have all the sex you want without any of the reproductive

01:32:18.920 responsibilities of that and tell women the same thing and say, there's no God, there's

01:32:23.520 none of this, what possible incentive do they have to have children if they can just go

01:32:27.880 live their two-income job and do whatever the hell they want, go on vacation every six

01:32:33.200 months.

01:32:34.340 Nihilism, man, that seems like it's a really good, alluring life when you're young.

01:32:38.860 And then by the time you find out it's not, you're too fucking old to have kids.

01:32:42.220 There was those viral videos where they're like – I just want to point out, I really

01:32:46.040 hate the videos where people go, we're X.

01:32:48.560 We do this.

01:32:49.840 Just get out of here with that.

01:32:50.980 But fine.

01:32:51.440 Whatever makes you happy.

01:32:51.960 We're anti-natal-less.

01:32:53.020 Right, but they did the one where it's like, we're dinks.

01:32:54.920 Oh, God.

01:32:55.260 We're dinks.

01:32:55.800 We do this.

01:32:56.580 We go on vacation.

01:32:57.400 We do whatever I want.

01:32:58.420 And I'm like, we just need someone to make one where it's like two elderly people saying

01:33:02.880 we're dinks and they're just lamenting their loneliness.

01:33:05.600 Or actually, better yet, it's an elderly woman saying, I was a dink.

01:33:10.140 My husband died.

01:33:10.900 I have no family and I'm terrified that I'll die alone.

01:33:13.680 And just make some of those.

01:33:14.360 It's way that comes in and moves my leg and wipes my ass.

01:33:17.040 I was at a coffee shop in Boston just the other day and this woman, I was working on

01:33:23.780 this book that I'm finishing up and I was like copy editing and stuff like that.

01:33:27.580 That was a well done book plug, by the way.

01:33:29.800 Like a real kind of like foreshadowing there.

01:33:32.140 But anyway, go ahead.

01:33:32.760 It's an integrated advertisement.

01:33:35.100 It's called The Birth of Tragedy by Mark Brahman and myself out this summer.

01:33:39.380 But she came up to me and I have a lot of sympathy for her because she is what that is.

01:33:46.060 She wanted to talk and she talked to me for an hour.

01:33:49.620 She kind of took over my...

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01:35:18.780 My space and time.

01:35:19.840 She recognized you?

01:35:20.940 She didn't recognize me.

01:35:21.920 No, no.

01:35:22.500 And I was even dropping hints and she still didn't get it.

01:35:25.280 But there are a lot of people.

01:35:27.580 Egomaniac.

01:35:28.400 What an egomaniac.

01:35:29.940 You got to recognize me.

01:35:31.240 Guys, Richard Spencer's an egomaniac.

01:35:33.220 Like, yeah, breaking news.

01:35:34.080 I was moved by it because she was living her life.

01:35:45.760 She has no one to talk to.

01:35:47.960 And her parents are dead.

01:35:50.440 She has some friends in the community.

01:35:52.120 She's a very nice woman.

01:35:53.620 She's definitely a liberal and a progressive, but a very nice woman.

01:35:56.460 Very, very upstanding woman.

01:35:59.280 And I, for about, for like the rest of the day, I was actually filled with a lot of sadness.

01:36:04.400 It's a real thing.

01:36:05.760 I mean, I'm deeply grateful for my children.

01:36:08.900 Oh, yeah.

01:36:10.100 Well, I mean, but the thing is, is you can see, you can see the counterpoint now and the counter tipping in Japan, especially.

01:36:17.540 You have, I mean, the elder population so far outpacing the youth being born that they can't, they're not even going to be able to take care of them soon.

01:36:28.420 They're going to have to open up hundreds of thousands of work visas to foreigners to come in, hopefully to take care of their old people because they can't do it themselves.

01:36:34.820 They also, the old suck up tons of resources, the younger, the one who are providing them.

01:36:40.140 Right.

01:36:40.220 So you need to have a lot of young people to take care of an aging population anyway.

01:36:44.200 Oh, but are you just going to simply out-read the danks?

01:36:45.520 Then when they look at the numbers, they're saying, hang on, hang on, they're saying that there's not going to be a South Korea in a hundred years.

01:36:51.940 Yeah, it's not going to be there.

01:36:53.500 Their birth rate is 0.8.

01:36:54.640 Yeah, it's 0.8.

01:36:55.400 What happens when it's 0.2?

01:36:56.740 Right now, we went over this a couple nights ago, to maintain Social Security, you need 2.8 workers to pay for one recipient.

01:37:05.180 Makes sense.

01:37:05.840 Birth in the United States is at 1.8, I believe.

01:37:08.420 And dropping.

01:37:09.120 And dropping.

01:37:10.680 It's higher among, I actually just pulled this up, it's higher among religious groups, obviously.

01:37:15.440 Yep.

01:37:15.600 But I don't know that conservative Protestants are at 1.8.

01:37:22.260 Let's see, Catholics and Protestants in general have about two, so they're the only balanced demographic, I believe, in the U.S.

01:37:30.260 Actually, it might be higher among Muslims, and it might be a couple points.

01:37:33.260 All that really matters, with the fertility rate being under 2.8, we are about a generation or two away from, first and foremost, Social Security is already collapsing by 2023.

01:37:42.820 By 2030, it starts breaking down, by 2037, they're expecting it to totally collapse.

01:37:46.940 They'll probably try pulling off some kind of major fiat move in an effort to maintain the system.

01:37:52.880 Quantitative easing with Social Security.

01:37:55.720 But here's the issue.

01:37:57.880 You can print all the money in the world that you want.

01:37:59.920 If you don't have the labor that that money buys, that money is toilet paper.

01:38:05.220 And so, without the fertility rate—

01:38:08.000 We don't have the human capital.

01:38:08.980 And so, what they'll do is, they will give their $1,000 check to a Social Security recipient, who will then walk outside and say,

01:38:15.960 I'm old, and I need my butt wiped, and I have no kids.

01:38:18.540 Can I pay someone to do it?

01:38:19.640 And there will be no one there.

01:38:20.640 A tumbleweed will roll by.

01:38:22.200 And they'll say, well, what good is this money?

01:38:23.800 There's no one to do the labor.

01:38:25.440 So, what can they do?

01:38:26.680 Well, I'll tell you what they're going to do.

01:38:28.100 They're going to bank on mass migration.

01:38:29.940 Yes.

01:38:30.180 And this is—if you even read the modern papers from NGOs, these NGOs, they see that this is an issue.

01:38:39.920 They've foreseen this is going to be an issue for a while.

01:38:42.160 Now that we're in the issue, they're going to bank on mass migration, especially from African nations,

01:38:46.040 which are some of the only ones that have a birth rate, which is raising.

01:38:50.620 They're going to—and that's why you see so many African migrants coming in now.

01:38:54.040 As Mexico's birth rate decreases, because they are fast becoming a much more industrialized first world nation, right?

01:39:00.840 It's decreasing.

01:39:01.760 All South American nations' birth rates are decreasing.

01:39:04.400 How are you going to pull from them when they don't have the human capital either?

01:39:08.520 But the—

01:39:09.360 They're going to focus on African migrants.

01:39:10.740 This is the problem of the current administration, and I don't just mean the Biden administration,

01:39:14.740 but the political powers in the United States.

01:39:16.120 It's the presumption that just bring in as many as you can to bolster the tax base and create kids for the next generation.

01:39:24.400 The problem is they, as managers of that system, will not last with it.

01:39:29.500 So if you bring in people who don't know how to run a machine like this,

01:39:33.840 simply because they will do the jobs that you can then tax to pay for the older generation,

01:39:38.580 you will still have an older generation that requires more people.

01:39:41.100 Eventually, you will not, once again, have enough people because fertility is still going to be low,

01:39:45.060 and then there will be no one left to take over and inherit your machine

01:39:48.480 unless you actually segment yourself and your family and your kids and your community away from the machine you built.

01:39:55.060 Yeah, well, this is actually a good segue because we also have a golden opportunity

01:39:59.120 to make our country extremely powerful if we're some of the first to the forefront

01:40:04.400 in getting the birth rate back up, especially through propaganda.

01:40:08.260 I mean, the whole world's about to suffer from this.

01:40:10.520 If you can imagine, if we were one of the few nations on planet Earth in the West

01:40:14.360 that had a birth rate as high as what Israel's is, we'd have a massive advantage in human capital,

01:40:20.720 having a homogenous nation.

01:40:23.680 Our inventiveness would be through the roof.

01:40:25.640 Everything going forward would be better if we did that.

01:40:28.560 That should be a number one policy.

01:40:31.540 Nobody's even talking about it.

01:40:33.180 A couple of people in Congress are kind of making mentions about it.

01:40:35.980 But that's it.

01:40:38.020 So, yeah, I think that that's going to be one of the biggest problems.

01:40:41.120 Yeah, but it doesn't solve it in my lifetime.

01:40:43.500 I think – I don't disagree with so much of what you're saying,

01:40:46.380 but it doesn't solve this issue of – I mean, this radical natalism that is at least suggested by someone like Elon.

01:40:54.760 What the hell is radical natalism?

01:40:57.080 Well, just go with it.

01:40:58.360 Let's not get caught up on this.

01:41:00.520 Yeah, I just want to know what it is.

01:41:01.720 What is it?

01:41:02.120 If we have tons of kids, we'll soon be in the stars, that we need, you know, 7 billion more, et cetera.

01:41:09.460 We're going to start declining from 8 billion coming up.

01:41:13.100 Quickly.

01:41:13.760 Yeah.

01:41:14.060 Quickly, yeah.

01:41:14.400 But if people – if you're just saying have more children, that sounds like you're going to fill up more and more favelas, to be honest.

01:41:24.860 Like, it doesn't follow that there's simply more people out there, like, who breathe oxygen and are, you know, big-brained apes, mammals,

01:41:36.260 and you're going to therefore reach the stars.

01:41:38.260 I could easily argue that promoting fertility –

01:41:42.440 The issue also is –

01:41:43.640 Right now I'm talking about populating this planet.

01:41:45.540 I'm not even talking about the stars.

01:41:47.700 I know, but promoting fertility is going to create a colossal global underclass, and that – you're not going to outbreed them.

01:41:58.300 Even evangelicals.

01:41:59.260 Wait, wait, wait, hang on, hang on, hang on.

01:42:02.080 So what?

01:42:02.920 That's scalable.

01:42:04.180 So not breeding – you're still going to have a colossal underclass.

01:42:07.320 It's just – it's a scalability thing.

01:42:09.200 Yes, more people, more people in the underclass.

01:42:11.360 I guess that's tangentially true, but so what?

01:42:14.460 Doesn't matter.

01:42:15.540 Ultimately, that doesn't matter.

01:42:16.760 You need to have logistics.

01:42:18.940 You need to have people running ships, and you need to have them driving trucks, and you need to have them doing this.

01:42:22.880 Two million Africans is not going to, like, advance us towards the stars or something.

01:42:24.820 I mean, we need to understand, like, we're going to have to manage the world.

01:42:28.120 We're not talking about bringing up the birth rates of people who have sustainable birth rates.

01:42:32.600 I understand.

01:42:33.520 I understand.

01:42:34.220 I'm just pointing out there's, like, just outright natalism brings its own issues.

01:42:39.600 But you were going to say something.

01:42:40.560 Well, I mean, I guess in a bizarre – but here's the thing.

01:42:44.000 It really – the main thing is is that pro-natalism brings about, you know, a human species that I think we need in order to have any of these other tangential kind of issues sorted out.

01:42:56.600 And right now the anti-natalists have been winning.

01:42:59.280 They dropped the population bomb all over the world.

01:43:01.560 They said that it was going to be a catastrophe when we reached 8 billion people.

01:43:04.260 The opposite happened.

01:43:05.460 More food than ever.

01:43:06.600 More logistics.

01:43:07.760 More food getting everywhere.

01:43:09.840 I mean, like, there weren't that many people in, like, London or England itself.

01:43:15.660 They weren't dropping it there.

01:43:16.460 Hold on.

01:43:16.820 Just let me finish, dude.

01:43:18.000 Come on.

01:43:18.360 Go ahead.

01:43:18.640 There weren't that many people in England.

01:43:21.380 And within two or three generations, you had Shakespeare and Milton and Newton, you know, coming down the pike.

01:43:27.780 These small nations.

01:43:28.600 If you look at, like, what England and Germany in particular and other cultures have contributed towards human advancement and so on, it is off the charts.

01:43:42.600 So it's not a matter of numbers.

01:43:44.460 It fundamentally is a matter of a people and a culture who is able to advance.

01:43:51.140 Don't you think Newton needs to eat?

01:43:53.920 Don't you think these people – well, so this is the thing, right?

01:43:56.440 All of these kind of components which go into the advancement of technology that you're talking about is a massive logistical order, huge, of huge scale.

01:44:06.240 And the thing that's so interesting about it is absent the kind of human capital necessary for the massive amount of freighters that are required and the equipment for these mines and all of this type of thing,

01:44:17.520 if you scale that down, we're going to go back to the 50s, 60s, 70s, where we did have real hunger problems, global hunger problems, which have essentially all but been solved.

01:44:26.680 And it's not because the microchip has solved them.

01:44:29.400 It's because humanity, having human capital, has assisted in growing more food than we've ever been able to grow before, ever.

01:44:36.000 Right. But a planet with a billion people, the right billion people, could absolutely go interstellar.

01:44:44.160 And I think much like the wall or other things, I think this nativism thing or natalism is a sort of kind of red herring of the real issue.

01:44:55.220 The real issue is that master narratives have broken down.

01:44:58.960 The real issue is that we're creating a massive underclass population globally that is being fed, that is not starving.

01:45:08.060 But is that sustainable or is that desirable?

01:45:11.240 I mean, wouldn't you like to go to the African continent and it's free?

01:45:16.680 Like there's just there are animals everywhere.

01:45:19.240 It's dangerous.

01:45:20.360 In fact, it's a truly undiscovered place.

01:45:23.320 Isn't there some deep spiritual need we have for nature?

01:45:27.000 Don't you want North America to have wild places on it as well?

01:45:30.860 I don't think that we need to contract all of humanity so that you feel better about going to Africa and being scared by a lion, right?

01:45:39.020 You might need to do that.

01:45:39.880 Not only does that seem silly, but I also don't think that contracting the amount of mines which we can create down to the perfect 1 billion or 500 million.

01:45:50.860 That's what the Georgia Guidestones say, right?

01:45:53.060 Get it down to 500 million.

01:45:55.000 Right.

01:45:55.160 Get the class down to 500 million and keep it in perpetuity with nature.

01:45:58.900 The exact same thing you are currently right now advocating.

01:46:01.320 Oh, I love the Georgia Guidestones.

01:46:02.220 I'm sure you do.

01:46:03.300 That's interesting.

01:46:04.100 I'm sure you do.

01:46:05.120 Yeah.

01:46:05.600 But that's some mass globalist, antinatalist Satanism.

01:46:09.880 That's what it is.

01:46:11.600 I mean, I'm not so sure about the Satanism.

01:46:13.100 Well, I'm pretty sure that an antinatalist policy in and of itself requires abortion.

01:46:17.400 It requires contraception.

01:46:20.420 It requires all of this.

01:46:21.500 It's a pretty Satanic agenda, I must admit.

01:46:24.640 An antinatalist agenda, to me, is Satanic.

01:46:28.240 No two ways about it.

01:46:29.060 There is a caring capacity of the planet.

01:46:32.020 I mean, would you not admit this?

01:46:33.940 I mean—

01:46:34.280 I don't think that we're near the threshold of what that is.

01:46:37.060 And we're not facing the problem right now of what happens if we go to wherever this arbitrary capacity that you have no idea what it is is.

01:46:46.400 We're facing the opposite problem.

01:46:48.340 And we know what that looks like.

01:46:50.260 Right.

01:46:50.500 But that is a huge problem.

01:46:53.460 I mean, think about Gen Z as a sort of kind of like terminal generation.

01:46:58.400 So, I am—

01:47:00.200 I do.

01:47:01.000 Yeah.

01:47:01.180 I am used to, um—

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01:48:32.160 Hearing stories about what's wrong with the kids these days.

01:48:35.460 The 60s kids, the boomers, shocked their parents in terms of their free love and all sorts of other things.

01:48:43.780 They were having more sex.

01:48:45.140 I remember when I was growing up, it was all about teen pregnancy.

01:48:48.240 What's going on with teenagers?

01:48:50.000 They're doing drugs.

01:48:50.720 They're having sex.

01:48:51.460 They're pregnant, et cetera, et cetera.

01:48:53.220 Now the issue is fundamentally different.

01:48:56.120 It is these zoomers are almost pushing towards the end.

01:49:02.240 There wasn't even a baby boom during COVID.

01:49:05.300 We were literally, like you talk about propaganda, people were literally trapped in a confined space and they didn't have sex.

01:49:12.540 You have to be trapped in a confined space with a woman to have sex with her, though.

01:49:16.840 And that's the disconnect, right?

01:49:18.940 The nihilism, which is leading to everything from incels to not wanting to have a relationship until you're in your 30s, until you feel like you're set, right?

01:49:27.220 So people in their 20s, that's the fertility years.

01:49:30.520 They're not even bothering.

01:49:32.100 Let me, I pulled up Google Maps and this really fascinated me a long time ago when I was looking at it.

01:49:39.180 And you can see all this beautiful lush green and the mountains and all that stuff.

01:49:42.440 The fascinating thing about this is this strip right here, Appalachia, yeah, it's dark green.

01:49:48.260 Those are trees.

01:49:49.060 When you zoom in, what do you find?

01:49:50.200 You find mountains.

01:49:51.480 It's not really great farming territory.

01:49:52.900 The reason West Virginia is an East Coast state but is sparsely populated is because the mountains were too difficult for people to move through.

01:50:00.640 Now, if you move over here, here's a fascinating thing.

01:50:03.340 All of the light green, all of it is farms.

01:50:06.280 Right.

01:50:06.520 That is, to me, insane.

01:50:10.380 I didn't realize just how much.

01:50:12.820 And look, we zoom in.

01:50:14.160 All farms.

01:50:15.380 Yes.

01:50:16.060 Absolutely ridiculous.

01:50:18.020 It's all farming.

01:50:19.380 Yeah, we're a mass exporter of food.

01:50:20.980 And that is absolutely crazy to me.

01:50:23.840 I believe that based on, for the United States at the very least, we are high up on how much land we're using for farming.

01:50:32.020 That being said, we have fat homeless people.

01:50:34.980 So I don't know that the, like, I'm not suggesting this means we're close to the upper limit.

01:50:40.120 I think it means more so we have a cultural imbalance in that we produce tremendous resources.

01:50:44.140 And then we have people who don't utilize them properly.

01:50:47.000 So the waste of the energy produced is massive.

01:50:50.940 Well, I don't, I think that the homeless people are getting fat on chocolate bars and, you know, Cheez-Its, not on ears of corn and tomatoes growing.

01:50:59.000 They are getting fat on ears of corn, actually.

01:51:01.240 Corn syrup is, yeah.

01:51:02.280 You get my point.

01:51:03.040 I get your point.

01:51:03.680 Right.

01:51:03.920 And corn syrup, heavy in sugar, all this type of thing.

01:51:06.120 But what I'm saying is they're not getting fat on tomatoes grown in the Midwest, not getting fat on the crops in the Midwest.

01:51:11.540 Most of the United States is uninhabited.

01:51:13.280 Most.

01:51:13.820 Most of it.

01:51:14.960 And that's going to remain the case for the foreseeable future.

01:51:18.240 But that's not, uninhabited has nothing to do with whether or not we're at population sustainable levels, right?

01:51:24.460 It does because of water.

01:51:25.900 It's a water thing.

01:51:26.700 So most major cities, metropolitans are built around water because pumping water initially was not an easy thing to do.

01:51:33.980 That's why people settle where there's water, and that's why they always did.

01:51:37.940 But what he's saying is it's not just that, you know, every human needs 100 feet of land or something.

01:51:44.140 It's like we have a – well, it's gone now.

01:51:46.820 But we have a massive system of agricultural production.

01:51:50.480 You can't just – things are going to radically change if you put a billion people in the center of the country like that.

01:51:58.160 Like you cannot have those farms anymore and so on.

01:52:01.300 And so in – like you – could you – if there's 10 million more people in Phoenix, Arizona, is that even possible?

01:52:07.360 Or are you going to have massive water shortages just due to geography and climate?

01:52:11.760 Yeah, but what –

01:52:12.240 So there are limits to these things.

01:52:13.360 Yeah, I get it.

01:52:13.740 But what happens is this instead.

01:52:15.820 And let's take China because I have a great example that I can kind of give you.

01:52:19.580 What happens is Beijing, what happens is the cities, which are on waters, they grow to 500 million people in a single city.

01:52:30.140 They don't all move out to the middle of the countryside where the farmland is.

01:52:34.200 That's horrible.

01:52:34.780 Why would we want that?

01:52:35.300 I think it is horrible, but it's –

01:52:37.140 That's the direct consequence of what you're saying.

01:52:38.720 No, no, no.

01:52:39.420 The consequence of me saying let's at least sustain what we have, at least sustain what we have, is not a consequence of – well, now there's 50 billion people on planet Earth.

01:52:50.620 And there's cities in the United States with 10 billion people.

01:52:53.380 Real quick, there's about 900 million acres of farmland in the United States, estimate.

01:52:59.700 It's about one to two acres to feed one person.

01:53:04.100 So very simple numbers.

01:53:06.800 450 million is the very, very simple estimate of upper limit of U.S. population for which we're at 330.

01:53:12.940 Right.

01:53:13.860 Yeah.

01:53:14.240 This is all fair because there is a sort of carrying capacity, and it's not purely geographic.

01:53:20.480 But I'll make – real quick, I want to make this point.

01:53:21.940 Okay.

01:53:22.120 Caring capacity will change dramatically based on how we structure society.

01:53:26.580 The sort of liberal machine right now – I hate using the word liberal, but the – what I'm going to call it, establishment, is put everybody in cities.

01:53:34.600 Biggest mistake you can make.

01:53:36.000 Yeah.

01:53:36.140 The example I like to give is if you take 10 chickens and you let them loose in a big field, they will walk around that field pooping, and the grass will grow greener.

01:53:46.320 Right.

01:53:47.060 Thomas Massey has the clucks capacitor, he calls it, where it pulls the chicken coop very slowly.

01:53:52.120 So it spreads the chicken poop out, and then there's a big trail of lush green grass.

01:53:56.860 But what do you think would happen if you put those chickens in one small area within a day, there's no grass left, and the amount of feces has piled up to such a degree, it is toxic, the chickens are getting sick from it, it smells horrible, and the rain can't dissipate it.

01:54:12.860 Right.

01:54:12.980 That's New York City.

01:54:14.400 New York, L.A., we have hyper-concentrated all of our waste products, so it cannot effectively be dissipated into the environment in positive ways.

01:54:23.100 So it's not so much about overpopulation, but hyper-concentration of population is extremely destructive.

01:54:29.900 I agree.

01:54:30.760 The suburbs are also very –

01:54:32.560 But this –

01:54:33.200 I'm not sure, though, what that would have to do with a pro-natalist policy.

01:54:37.080 No, hold on.

01:54:37.620 We've got to have lots of babies to spread them out.

01:54:39.440 Yeah, sure.

01:54:39.760 This is my argument.

01:54:40.460 Look, I'm going to give you a charitable interpretation of what you're saying, because I think we –

01:54:45.620 You can make it uncharitable.

01:54:46.880 Well, hold on.

01:54:47.420 No, no, no.

01:54:48.020 Because I think some cases, Andrew, I think you're almost like trying to disagree with me so that we can get more fireworks or whatever.

01:54:55.100 I didn't come to a debate to be your buddy.

01:54:57.220 I understand.

01:54:57.860 I understand.

01:54:58.380 I didn't come here to make friends.

01:54:59.400 I didn't come here to make friends.

01:55:02.180 Anyway, go ahead.

01:55:03.120 Okay.

01:55:03.600 So what you're saying, basically, is you want to maintain America as it is with family homes, kids in the playgrounds, playing baseball.

01:55:12.980 Well, I would like to see at least the kids in the playground thing.

01:55:15.860 Exactly.

01:55:16.280 Right.

01:55:16.900 I haven't seen that in a while.

01:55:18.380 Yeah.

01:55:18.860 That's what you want, right?

01:55:20.920 And I totally resonate with that as well.

01:55:23.600 There is an overwhelming secular urge, and it's extremely intense among Zoomers towards anti-fertility.

01:55:33.720 Yeah, I know.

01:55:34.380 And so I guess what I'm saying is I understand that.

01:55:38.240 I love that too.

01:55:39.340 But might there be a silver lining towards the sort of bottleneck that we're all experiencing?

01:55:47.320 Because what we're breeding, it's not just religion.

01:55:52.160 We're also breeding sort of anti-social behavior to some degree, and that's actually an equivocal matter.

01:55:59.740 But how would you become more social with less people?

01:56:02.720 Because it's the people who are passing the shit test who are having sex.

01:56:07.640 Now, that could be a multimillionaire who has a great home and four kids, you know, Gavin Newsom style kind of thing.

01:56:14.640 I think it's just hypergamy.

01:56:16.140 Or it could be a lot of, to be brutally frank here, a lot of kind of dumb people who don't give a fuck.

01:56:24.660 They don't have enough foresight to put on a condom, etc.

01:56:28.640 They're just kind of producing this, and there's a tremendous amount of social dysfunction involved in the people of high birth rates.

01:56:35.840 It's actually the middle.

01:56:37.280 The top, say, 2% to 9% are reproducing themselves.

01:56:41.680 The bottom, like, 40% are also reproducing themselves.

01:56:45.920 It's the middle that is—those dinks are middle class.

01:56:49.560 The top percentage also not reproducing much.

01:56:52.500 They actually are—

01:56:53.760 Not much.

01:56:54.380 I know, but they are reproducing themselves a little bit more.

01:56:58.640 If you're super wealthy and stuff like that, you are likely to have children.

01:57:04.100 The bottom are reproducing themselves, and it's actually dysfunctional.

01:57:07.700 And we also have this kind of issue of the Zoomers not even having sex, the amount of virgins that we have.

01:57:15.300 So we're in this bottleneck.

01:57:16.980 Only a few people are going to survive.

01:57:18.900 Are you just badass enough that your genes are going to go on?

01:57:22.860 Are you the guy who has tattoos and a leather jacket or, like, heavy metal band, you know, kind of—

01:57:27.980 That chicks love it because you're a fucking alpha.

01:57:30.700 You're a badass.

01:57:31.720 They want your babies whether they're going to admit that to themselves or not.

01:57:35.200 Those people are going to survive.

01:57:36.920 People who are highly intelligent and functional are going to survive.

01:57:40.440 There is going to be a bottleneck.

01:57:42.860 We are experiencing that.

01:57:44.080 What you're talking about is hypothetical.

01:57:45.200 You're talking about social eugenics.

01:57:47.300 Well, it's not—but it's not like a program.

01:57:49.440 It's just happening.

01:57:50.300 This is where we are.

01:57:51.040 Yeah, that's why I didn't say it was a program.

01:57:53.300 But in a way, social eugenics is.

01:57:55.480 If it's being postulated, you know, socially, if we're going to do—

01:58:00.040 Isn't there really kind of this silver lining that kind of the ADHD people and some of the people who are antisocial are just going to kind of, I don't know, wink out of existence?

01:58:09.760 And that they're not going to have children and that that's good because then we have kind of this master, you know, all the people who survive the kind of master races, right?

01:58:22.460 That's kind of what you're moving towards, right?

01:58:24.840 Social eugenics, right?

01:58:25.820 Yes.

01:58:26.020 Is there a—is there—is there—is there—are there be some silver linings to that model?

01:58:30.360 I don't think that's a silver lining.

01:58:31.980 I don't think that just because, you know, you are antinatalist and you create even what you would consider to be some type of social paradise, I don't think it's a paradise.

01:58:43.140 I think that all you're going to end up doing is creating a population of more starvation and of more suffering.

01:58:47.980 I think you need to have the human capital available to support even a billion people.

01:58:53.560 The logistics between nations is insane.

01:58:55.880 Have you ever looked at it?

01:58:56.880 It's insane.

01:58:58.100 I don't even know how it's done.

01:58:59.720 It's so complex.

01:59:01.460 I think people who—

01:59:02.020 There's just like ships going all over the place.

01:59:03.120 Not just ships and airplanes and freighters and, you know, everything going between everywhere.

01:59:07.880 You have to have the human capital and you have to have the human capital to get the—get into the mines and get out the gold and get out these different resources.

01:59:15.040 Even refining those resources and recycling them, take human capital.

01:59:19.420 It's not scalable.

01:59:21.040 The reason it's not scalable is because you don't increase labor by double, by having two people.

01:59:26.920 You increase it four times, five times, just by having a second person.

01:59:30.800 So, yes, labor multiplied by people, yeah, we need it.

01:59:34.880 And we need it in a big way.

01:59:36.640 I don't know that going back to, you know, a billion people, 900 million is necessarily going to make for this kind of utopia.

01:59:44.400 I don't think it will.

01:59:45.200 It's cultural.

01:59:47.120 If you had 100,000 individuals that were born into this culture of, like, Spartan-esque warrior and scientific values, you'd probably become a space-faring nation very quickly.

02:00:02.520 As opposed to a billion people who just want to eat Cheez-Its and, you know—

02:00:06.400 Exactly.

02:00:06.960 There are a billion Africans.

02:00:08.320 Are they getting more productive?

02:00:09.720 I mean, it's about quality and not quantity.

02:00:12.480 I'm not saying that—

02:00:13.380 I will say, though—

02:00:14.480 I'm not saying that there's no cultural prism.

02:00:16.320 I think that is—we're going to get into the race thing, but I think that's an overgeneralization, too, because—

02:00:19.480 But that's really weird, because I still—

02:00:20.540 Nairobi, for instance, actually has a tremendous technological research hub.

02:00:24.880 Not only that, but what I don't get about this is, like, sure, okay, there's a cultural prism.

02:00:30.020 If you had 100,000 Spartans, right, they're going to do way better than, you know, 100 million Africans or something.

02:00:36.380 Fine.

02:00:36.880 I'll concede that.

02:00:38.200 But why wouldn't 500,000 Spartans do better?

02:00:40.980 That is what I don't understand.

02:00:42.680 Or 1 million Spartans do better.

02:00:44.300 Because you live on this planet, and you can't just pick and choose.

02:00:46.900 Like, I could argue that—you're saying the productivity argument, if you have four, that's not four times better.

02:00:52.020 It's like 16 times—

02:00:52.720 Yeah, it's like 24 times better.

02:00:54.140 I'll grant it to you.

02:00:55.940 I could also say with dysfunctional people, it's like 16 times worse.

02:01:01.040 No.

02:01:01.700 Well, dysfunctional, it depends on the type of dysfunction.

02:01:04.660 But the thing is, for basic labor, you don't need to have—here's the other thing that people always forget.

02:01:10.620 People with really high IQs, they're fucking dysfunctional.

02:01:14.080 I agree.

02:01:14.500 They are super dysfunctional.

02:01:16.120 I agree.

02:01:16.520 They have tons of mental illness.

02:01:18.280 They have tons of huge problems.

02:01:20.240 They want to be a problem.

02:01:21.300 This is actually true.

02:01:22.200 A direct correlation, the higher the IQ, the more likely they're mentally ill.

02:01:25.180 Yeah.

02:01:25.720 They suffer from massive depression, and the chances are it's going to be genetic to their children.

02:01:30.340 They're spreading the type of social unease you're talking about with ADHD and depression and this type of thing.

02:01:37.560 Why don't you start with the high IQ people?

02:01:38.940 They have it worse than anyone.

02:01:40.740 The be-all, end-all is wrong.

02:01:42.860 Of course it is.

02:01:43.580 Of course it is.

02:01:44.260 There's this really funny meme of income by IQ chart, and it shows IQ—our income is on the left and IQ is on the bottom, and it slowly goes up.

02:01:54.580 The higher the IQ, the higher the income.

02:01:55.620 But there's one person with an IQ at 75 who makes the highest—it's like $1.4 million per year.

02:02:00.680 And people are like, damn, I've got to figure out what that is.

02:02:04.000 And it's like, oh, he's a professional athlete.

02:02:05.280 I'm not trying to be a dick to professional athletes.

02:02:06.620 But you've got a really dumb guy who can triple backflip, and he's slamming every dunk, and he's making every touchdown pass.

02:02:13.540 I mean, you can become successful, powerful, wealthy, and IQ doesn't guarantee that.

02:02:17.820 Persistence does.

02:02:19.160 But ultimately, though, I think the issue is for me, I don't care about where you're from, what you do.

02:02:26.340 It's about productivity.

02:02:27.740 So you mentioned Africa, for instance.

02:02:30.000 It's managerial power.

02:02:32.800 So you need people who can carry bricks.

02:02:35.620 You need people who can solve math.

02:02:36.760 I don't care where that comes from or who can do it.

02:02:38.840 What your background is, just do the job.

02:02:40.940 So in the United States, the problem we have is people have brought this point up.

02:02:44.620 In China, they ask a child, what do you want to be when you grow up?

02:02:46.640 They say, astronaut.

02:02:47.420 You ask an American kid, they say, influencer.

02:02:50.120 Influencers don't do anything.

02:02:51.740 Like, what am I doing?

02:02:53.160 I complain on the internet for a living?

02:02:54.980 Heavens help me.

02:02:56.020 We need—I've longed to this as a kid.

02:02:59.500 We need a society that champions astronauts, engineers.

02:03:04.260 I'm glad Elon Musk has become as popular as he has been as a celebrity for being an industrialist.

02:03:09.860 Because the idea needs to be, as we're talking about TikTok algorithms promoting family, if we had award ceremonies and national television shows, like, you know, major—the Emmys was more about technological advancement, scientific advancement, or labor achievement.

02:03:27.100 That's what people would look up to and want to be, because at the root, for most people, they're just trying to figure out how to be accepted.

02:03:33.640 So if some little kid is like, I want people to clap for me, it's like, well, here's how you do it.

02:03:38.560 You build a spaceship.

02:03:39.980 Then they're going to be like, I want to do that.

02:03:41.940 The thing that's interesting is blue collar is making its way back in.

02:03:45.800 It's becoming a thing which is trendy to move towards again.

02:03:49.360 But this is what I mean.

02:03:49.940 Like, we should have an award ceremony for the dude who laid the most bricks in a building.

02:03:53.920 And I'm somewhat kidding.

02:03:55.380 But having some dude come in who's like just a dad wearing a—

02:03:58.520 I mean, why kid?

02:03:59.240 That sounds like just a perfectly virtuous undertaking to be like, you've laid more bricks than anybody else in the entire world.

02:04:06.900 That's awesome.

02:04:07.460 We should have competitions, like construction competitions and things like that where—you know, I like sports.

02:04:14.600 I like watching—

02:04:15.040 Do you know why you can't do that?

02:04:16.440 Because he doesn't include women.

02:04:18.000 You can include—you can have the women's construction.

02:04:20.480 If it's not inclusive to women in a trade, you can't glorify it in any way.

02:04:26.760 That's a massive—

02:04:27.380 There's just not enough women who are construction workers and have jackhammers.

02:04:32.820 My point is perhaps it's because people don't want to think about work.

02:04:37.240 It's like, dude, I did that all day.

02:04:38.540 Now I kind of want to do something else.

02:04:39.440 It's where we have hobbies.

02:04:40.400 And you like watching sports on TV because it's just like, let me relax.

02:04:45.800 I love construction.

02:04:47.280 I'm the best at it.

02:04:48.680 I can talk you around a building all day and night.

02:04:51.200 But after I'm done with it, I want to zone out and relax to recharge my batteries.

02:04:56.040 That's probably why people like watching other things.

02:04:58.040 But I'm just saying, in general, if our society from the ground up was promoting hyperproductivity, then we'd be spacefaring, right?

02:05:06.800 It's a society that neglects its youth.

02:05:08.480 And this is what the United States does.

02:05:09.700 That produces degeneracy.

02:05:12.520 The example I'll give you is always quite shocking to me growing up.

02:05:17.160 The most important formative years of a human being's life, and this is scientifically proven, is zero through five.

02:05:23.340 The development of neural pathways in the brain exponentially larger and diminished after that age.

02:05:29.780 And so a baby from zero to five, their brain is rapidly developing and creating the pathways which will allow them to function, calculate, think, solve problems.

02:05:37.960 That's why malnourishment in a child is so awful.

02:05:40.960 But what's fascinating is when they have discovered children who are chained in basements by evil predators or who were neglected, they can never learn to speak properly.

02:05:51.320 The famous story is like the little girl who was found chained up in a basement.

02:05:54.740 She was 14 and 15.

02:05:57.300 By the time she was in her 20s, even with as much education as they gave her, she could not speak English.

02:06:02.280 She could only grunt.

02:06:03.600 She could say hungry, tired, but she couldn't articulate complex thoughts because the neural pathways never developed.

02:06:09.640 She's an influencer now.

02:06:10.920 That's right.

02:06:11.560 One of the most famous.

02:06:12.580 But in American society, we completely ignore zero through five.

02:06:19.140 Completely.

02:06:19.900 That's a time period where today parents are sticking an iPad in front of the baby and pressing play and leaving the room.

02:06:24.340 Yeah, that is true.

02:06:26.060 This is going to gum up the brains.

02:06:29.540 Borderline child abuse or just outright societal failure, child abuse.

02:06:35.920 So if you took every kid in this country and instead of playing some weird video of a guy singing.

02:06:42.740 Oh, dude, I'm gonna tell you a story, man.

02:06:44.320 And I'm not trying to be mean to my friend here, but, you know, his kids watching some show and it's this weird guy.

02:06:51.620 I turned it off.

02:06:52.640 I couldn't have.

02:06:53.220 He was going, and I'm like, why is this kid watching this?

02:06:59.120 And so I was like, I put on David Attenborough talking about frogs.

02:07:02.780 And he was like, the poison dart frog takes his child, the tadpole, and finds a small place to keep it.

02:07:09.600 And I'm like, and I'm going, wow.

02:07:11.740 And the kid all of a sudden is like, oh, like watching.

02:07:13.840 And I was just like, this is what we're doing in the modern age.

02:07:18.600 If instead we were playing, and this has got to be BBC documentaries, play a video of someone playing chess.

02:07:24.500 People, people, I really can't stand how they say that kids are dumb.

02:07:27.640 They're like, ah, kids are too stupid, and they don't listen.

02:07:30.200 No, no.

02:07:30.680 The mental capacity of a child, the potential is nigh infinite.

02:07:34.860 I mean that figuratively.

02:07:36.400 But because the data has not been installed into the machine, you assume it's incapable.

02:07:40.780 That's like buying a brand new high-end gaming computer desktop for $10,000 and then being like, it sucks.

02:07:47.060 It doesn't do anything.

02:07:47.880 It's like, well, did you install any games on it?

02:07:49.580 I mean, is it worse, though, to put the iPad in front of them than Sesame Street?

02:07:54.520 I think they're all bad.

02:07:55.360 Yeah, but I mean, what I'm saying is that all through the 80s and 90s, they also were putting them in front of the TV for, you know, Saturday morning cartoons or this or that or, you know, any number of different things.

02:08:06.880 Yes, all bad.

02:08:07.140 But most of those people still don't seem to be nearly as fucked up as the Zoomers are, even though they were put in front of this, right?

02:08:14.780 It's all bad, and it's continually getting worse.

02:08:17.500 Children used to be raised alongside their parents.

02:08:20.560 The two-year-old son was walking around the dad's carpentry shop watching him and garbling.

02:08:26.160 Now, I think that it's what's being interpreted also, which is the big problem.

02:08:31.360 That's why I think that if you're watching Sesame Street, right, now as bad as Sesame Street is, I think it gave you different values than what you're talking about here.

02:08:40.840 Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom, right?

02:08:42.260 So if the TV is raising you, maybe at least it's raising you with an idea of something that's not whatever that is.

02:08:50.460 But I agree with you that the interpretation of how children do things, walking through the shop with the dad, going out with their parents, seeing mom and dad love each other, you know, things like that.

02:09:00.280 Playing, playing, playing, playing, playing e-ball.

02:09:03.100 But the interpretation.

02:09:03.700 All of that's just as important, in fact.

02:09:05.720 It's all absorbed, yeah.

02:09:06.980 The Zoomers are, like, we're terrified of going outside.

02:09:10.460 It's not even they're terrified of women or having sex or whatever.

02:09:13.420 They're terrified of, like, leaving their home.

02:09:15.440 And it's crazy, too, because people don't realize this.

02:09:18.040 The media will insult incels all day and night, but women are in the same boat.

02:09:22.100 I shouldn't say the identical boat.

02:09:23.560 In a very similar position as young men, there was a viral video where a 20-something-year-old attractive woman was saying, like,

02:09:29.520 ha-ha, I have no friends, and I've never dated a guy before, and ha-ha, I don't know what to do, and ha-ha, all these guys think I have it made.

02:09:35.060 Very socially awkward, weird, but attractive, and I'm, like, kind of wild.

02:09:39.020 If she just went out and partied with friends at a bar, she'd meet a guy.

02:09:41.460 Sure.

02:09:41.800 Yeah.

02:09:42.040 But they're—

02:09:43.420 But she's antisocial.

02:09:44.680 Yeah, exactly.

02:09:45.600 They're locked in this internet realm.

02:09:47.380 I think—I hate all children's content.

02:09:50.520 I think it is all bad, all of it.

02:09:52.780 I like the Daily Wire.

02:09:54.400 I love what they're doing with Bent Key because it's a reversal from where we're at.

02:09:57.760 Was G.I. Joe that bad?

02:09:59.980 G.I. Joe's okay, actually.

02:10:02.060 Yeah, G.I. Joe's all right.

02:10:03.140 I don't like—I really don't like anthropomorphized children's animal shows.

02:10:09.580 Like Bambi.

02:10:10.880 I don't like—so, like, you know, I'm going to call out the Daily Wire specifically, but with respect, there's other people who can call it that's worse.

02:10:17.660 Like Chipchilla.

02:10:18.960 You know, they're doing a kid's—where it's like a—what is it?

02:10:21.980 It's a chinchilla family, and I'm like, don't give kids anthropomorphized animals to identify with.

02:10:28.320 Give them humans doing real things.

02:10:30.520 Yeah.

02:10:30.740 But I understand why they're doing it, so with all due respect, I think this is really—this kind of thing, it's a cascade failure where one beleaguered generation will produce an even more beleaguered generation, and it will continually decline.

02:10:48.720 Perhaps, however, this is the natural flow of its natural selection.

02:10:53.120 We can turn it around, and here I think we'll have broad agreement.

02:10:59.680 So much of American society is kind of letting technology happen or something.

02:11:04.180 It's like, oh, wow, at one point we have books, and now we have iPads, and we have—it's just this liberalism of kind of hands-off of social development.

02:11:12.240 At one time, we were men and women in a family.

02:11:14.660 Now we're gays.

02:11:15.340 Conservatives, and I say this as someone who's outside of their realm, you ultimately have to assert your will on the world in order to transform it.

02:11:29.560 You can't just say, just leave me alone, I'm okay, and so on.

02:11:34.320 You need to say, no.

02:11:35.620 We're actually—I mean, and I'm not necessarily supporting this, but let's ban iPads.

02:11:41.320 You can't own a television until you're 18 or something like that, hypothetically speaking.

02:11:47.600 And you must—we have compulsory athletics.

02:11:50.880 You must participate.

02:11:52.780 You must socialize.

02:11:54.420 Well, one of the biggest problems that conservatives ran into is they fell into the libertarian movement too much.

02:12:00.340 Yeah.

02:12:00.460 And they forgot.

02:12:01.440 Conservatives forgot.

02:12:02.380 Christian conservatives forgot.

02:12:03.480 If secularists are allowed to wield power, so are you.

02:12:07.400 It's okay for you.

02:12:09.640 And secularists will say this all the time.

02:12:11.360 Secularists are actually secularists.

02:12:13.200 It's just a weird new religion.

02:12:15.200 I mean, I agree, but what they're saying is they're like, if you're a Christian and Christianity is what informs your value, you can't rule like that.

02:12:23.880 You're not allowed to rule if that's the case.

02:12:26.600 Yes, you are.

02:12:27.680 And you should.

02:12:28.760 And we need that more than anything.

02:12:30.300 And so this was a huge con job, and from my perspective, how many conservatives went over to libertarianism, and they really shouldn't have because it convinced them not to seize what you're talking about, which is power.

02:12:44.260 We have a right to move towards power.

02:12:46.380 When you're talking about Christian populism and Christian nationalism, the reason it's becoming popular is because the people who are promoting it are saying the one thing that we've forgotten for a long time.

02:12:56.780 It's okay for you as a Christian to wield power, even absolute power, just like it is for the secularists.

02:13:03.280 This is what I just – I absolutely cannot stand is like the left is right now screaming – liberals, I should say, are screaming, if Donald Trump gets elected, he's going to come after his political enemies.

02:13:14.260 And I'm like, that's what you're doing.

02:13:15.820 That's right.

02:13:16.480 And then conservatives are like, no, we won't.

02:13:18.360 We swear.

02:13:18.880 That's not what we want to do.

02:13:19.680 And I'm like, who cares?

02:13:20.620 Yes, it is.

02:13:21.100 I don't care what –

02:13:21.640 That's exactly what I want to do.

02:13:23.200 I don't care what they think anymore.

02:13:24.300 I'm like – I said this a couple years ago.

02:13:26.740 When you come to me and say, oh, you can't say that because these liberals are – I'm like, that's France.

02:13:33.480 That's like coming to me and being like, your stanch on immigration is wrong because you're going to lose the people over here.

02:13:38.820 They don't like what you're saying.

02:13:39.560 And I'm like, why do I care what France is doing?

02:13:42.240 I am not France.

02:13:43.400 I do not participate in their elections.

02:13:45.080 They operate independent of themselves, and they try to exert authority over – internationally as any nation would do.

02:13:49.780 When you come to me and talk about New York and how liberals are complaining about stuff, I'm like, why do you care what New York liberals think?

02:13:55.940 That's like – we are so separate at this point.

02:13:58.940 All that matters is you recognize the power systems as they are, how to win elections, and how to wield the power you've gotten to defend your values and make this country a better place.

02:14:07.480 Well, you make a good point with this, and I've seen this a lot, the kind of liberal media tour on if Donald Trump is elected, he's going to go for revenge.

02:14:16.540 And you kind of brought this up just a second ago.

02:14:18.740 The reason that's such a good point is because you're also right.

02:14:21.540 The entire fiasco going on with Trump right now, his prosecution, that's all revenge.

02:14:26.280 Right.

02:14:26.480 100 percent, that's revenge.

02:14:28.240 There's no doubt that that's revenge.

02:14:30.100 When that election – or when the verdict was read, the entire internet went crazy with leftists going, that's right, next is the orange jumpsuit.

02:14:39.020 We're going to get you, and you MAGA people are next.

02:14:41.320 It's total revenge.

02:14:42.260 But for some reason, the idea that if Trump gets elected, he's going to come in and clean house with your ass next, that's unacceptable.

02:14:51.540 What's sad to me, though, is that conservatives of all stripes fall for this shit time and time again and go, no, we're going to be better than you.

02:14:59.420 What?

02:15:00.000 Right.

02:15:00.580 What?

02:15:00.920 Well, don't – but don't you think – and I'll try to kind of bring this full circle to where we begin.

02:15:05.660 I have this idea of the last election, and this goes back to my support of Joe Biden.

02:15:12.280 He's a geriatric manager of a declining empire, right?

02:15:17.260 And so he has to be –

02:15:18.080 He's drinking his insurer, and he's managing –

02:15:20.080 Even Clinton was – I think he's in his 40s when he was elected.

02:15:23.140 He was kind of young and vital and so on.

02:15:25.860 Now we have this old man running.

02:15:27.600 It really reminds me of the Soviet Union, in fact, of a Brezhnev area where we're having these premiers die, and the next one is comatose and et cetera.

02:15:36.560 It reminds me of where we are in terms of the liberal managers.

02:15:40.020 But don't you think this is the last election in the sense that it's hard to see beyond it?

02:15:47.100 It's hard to imagine someone replacing Trump.

02:15:50.540 I think even the DeSantis failure was an expression of that.

02:15:54.240 But also, regardless of which way the election goes, the other side can't accept it.

02:16:01.600 Because the liberals have criminalized Trump in some ways for legit reasons, I should say, but I'll put that aside for the moment.

02:16:10.020 They've criminalized Trump.

02:16:11.400 How could you let him win?

02:16:13.440 How could you hand the keys to the Ferrari over to this man who you've declared has stolen documents?

02:16:19.240 Well, they're not going to.

02:16:20.120 And secondly, J6 – and we don't have to go into all this stuff about J6 or whatever.

02:16:24.540 But it's like that was clearly an expression of outrage, of just, no, we will not let this happen.

02:16:30.980 We're going in there.

02:16:32.060 They said it themselves.

02:16:33.300 It's a revolution, baby.

02:16:34.340 And so where does – like I feel like we've reached an end point in 2024 where I can't see over the horizon and there's nothing after.

02:16:44.960 I completely agree.

02:16:45.920 Don't you think that that's kind of a terminal take?

02:16:48.300 Like, so if you look – like especially a terminally online take – if you look at what the average Americans are thinking when they're looking at this, I think that they can.

02:16:58.460 I think that they can see a future past Trump and Biden.

02:17:00.940 I think that they – if they just have a normal run-of-the-mill liberal, you know, kind of presidency next time, they'll be fine with that.

02:17:07.220 They'll be fine with other progressives like Clinton coming in.

02:17:09.780 I think they'll be fine with that.

02:17:11.020 But it's on the Republican conservative side, I think, that we're having the trouble seeing past the populist.

02:17:17.240 We're having trouble seeing past the – how do we get back to anything that's not Trump-like, anything that's not that kind of social Molotov cocktail or hand grenade thrown in to wreck the establishment?

02:17:31.260 I don't think the progressive left gives a shit.

02:17:33.660 I think they're fine, like you said, with moving the status quo towards progressivism.

02:17:39.740 And so the next liberal to them is meaningless.

02:17:42.300 But, you know, it was those terminally online people who got into QAnon and a large percentage of them went to J6.

02:17:49.200 Like the intense minority –

02:17:51.360 I don't think most of them –

02:17:51.960 Well, hold on.

02:17:53.000 It's a tiny percentage maybe.

02:17:54.040 The principle is here.

02:17:55.380 An intense minority determines the future.

02:17:59.240 It's not the broad masses that start saying let's revolt against England or whatever.

02:18:05.680 It's actually intense, interested minorities and intense, interested elites that create history.

02:18:13.180 You don't have to be elite to create history.

02:18:15.260 I think that's wrong.

02:18:16.080 But it's those small percentages that change things.

02:18:19.300 And those small percentages have been activated to a point where this is it, baby.

02:18:25.540 I agree.

02:18:26.500 I agree.

02:18:26.680 Yeah, but only on one – I think that the demographic you're talking about still is very, very, very small.

02:18:33.420 So I understand you say an intense minority.

02:18:35.260 I get it, right?

02:18:36.440 But I think this is purely on the right.

02:18:39.360 We cannot see a way past somebody like Trump.

02:18:43.000 That's why, like Ramashwamy, I think that he's somebody people could have gotten into maybe a little bit.

02:18:48.340 No way he was ever going to get the nomination.

02:18:49.680 But he was trying to say kind of more mainstream dissident right-wing talking points rather than normal right-wing talking points.

02:18:56.700 And so this is where the right is moving.

02:18:59.720 They're moving that way.

02:19:01.200 Visit left-wing forums and watch left-wing commentators.

02:19:03.880 They're saying the exact same thing as the right.

02:19:06.280 Donald Trump is the end of this country.

02:19:07.840 He will destroy democracy.

02:19:09.440 He will start imprisoning people.

02:19:11.200 He's a fascist.

02:19:11.980 It's the end.

02:19:12.840 They're all commenting the same things, the tree of liberty.

02:19:15.380 Like it's fascinating to me.

02:19:16.540 You get these Republicans saying like the tree of liberty comment.

02:19:18.740 The left is saying identical things.

02:19:22.360 I've dug through these various subreddit forums, watched many of their videos.

02:19:27.060 They're all talking about the Vosch pro-gun, 100%.

02:19:30.680 He's talking about how the left needs to start learning how to use arms.

02:19:32.980 The John Brown gut club, the Red Guard.

02:19:34.820 You've got various factions of far-left groups that are training, that are armed.

02:19:39.460 There's videos out of Portland where you'll see like an old white guy with a big white beard, body armor with a bunch of different magazines on it,

02:19:46.620 rifles hanging from his chest with a sidearm, and then he walks up, and then he's got a communist patch on his chest, and he's like, what can I do for you?

02:19:54.220 And if he did that communist patch off, the media would call him far-right.

02:19:57.240 But these are leftists that are doing this.

02:20:00.080 Everyone is saying we don't know what happens after November.

02:20:03.960 I have no idea.

02:20:04.840 I do think the most likely outcomes will never be – and this is because people don't read history, and they're first-order thinkers.

02:20:14.480 They're like, you really think the states are going to fight each other?

02:20:17.120 No.

02:20:17.840 Like there's no civil war because the states won't fight each other.

02:20:20.580 Stop thinking that the world is like 1861 where there was a union that was beleaguered.

02:20:27.640 It would be more like the IRA.

02:20:29.040 Right.

02:20:29.620 Absolutely.

02:20:30.320 Right.

02:20:30.740 And what I think might actually happen is I don't think you'll see interstate conflict.

02:20:35.700 I think what you'll see is in 2020, Texas filed a lawsuit against Pennsylvania to the Supreme Court under original jurisdiction.

02:20:44.180 That is when a state is a state, Supreme Court hears it instantly.

02:20:47.280 Supreme Court said no.

02:20:49.160 Texas argued Pennsylvania was in violation of the Constitution in how they operated their election.

02:20:54.080 And if they're allowed to run their elections improperly in violation of the Constitution, their votes should not impact how Texas gets to vote.

02:21:02.660 Basically, hey, man, we all agreed to this system where we vote, but that guy's cheating.

02:21:07.420 And the Supreme Court said, yeah, we don't care.

02:21:09.020 We don't care whether they're cheating or not.

02:21:10.900 48 states, I think it was 48 states, got involved.

02:21:14.680 Numerous states were also accused of the same thing.

02:21:17.000 There was half the states filing amicus briefs on behalf of Pennsylvania.

02:21:20.740 The other half on behalf of Texas and the Supreme Court said, leave me the F out of it.

02:21:25.960 If in November we get to a point where now that Republicans are aware of how the Democrats played the game with the executive branches of states changing the rules of the elections and judges that violates the Constitution, only the legislative branch of the states determine how elections are run.

02:21:42.160 You are going to have state legislative bodies prepared for how they're going to be delivering electoral vote counts and results to to combat what this what the what the governors do.

02:21:52.920 Republicans currently control the House.

02:21:54.700 It doesn't mean too much, but this means that come, I don't know, December when electoral votes are being submitted, a red state that I should say a swing state with mixed government, a Democrat governor with a Republican legislature may submit two slates of electors that are both deemed legit.

02:22:11.280 Now, this this actually happened in 2020, but the governor certify.

02:22:15.820 So the state legislatures are saying, no, no, here's our actual slate.

02:22:19.340 The governor says, I certified this one.

02:22:21.000 And now they're trying to jail the electors that were trying to submit through the legislative bodies.

02:22:25.700 The potential for catastrophe right now is insane.

02:22:29.560 Maybe it doesn't happen, but there is a potential for scenario that I believe if it were to reach conflict would be really, really light, really simple, terrifying, though.

02:22:37.620 And we don't want to happen in that several states have dual slates.

02:22:41.780 The House then says, we can't do this again.

02:22:45.600 We did it in 2020 and it's chaos that you're going to have state legislators giving press conferences saying our governor is submitting false electors.

02:22:53.860 Those are not our electors.

02:22:55.820 We certify.

02:22:56.760 The governor is going to say, no, I certify.

02:22:58.880 It's going to be 2020 on steroids.

02:23:01.960 The end result is not that January 6th things happen.

02:23:06.440 Texas then announces they're teaming up with Oklahoma.

02:23:09.580 What happens is there will be moving into January a legal battle over who is going to be inaugurated.

02:23:18.160 It will likely in that instance then defer to House delegations for choosing the president because there is a legal dispute.

02:23:25.260 The House, which I believe it's something like 28 delegations are Republican, obviously are going to side with Donald Trump.

02:23:33.160 Democrat states will then say this is an illegitimate election.

02:23:37.100 The people have spoken, likely citing the popular vote and the states where they say governors certify electors.

02:23:43.820 Then what happens when California says outright we do not accept the authority of a Donald Trump administration?

02:23:52.320 In 2020, the Boston Globe reported that Democrats ran a war campaign with Republicans where they said if Donald Trump were to win, they would encourage West Coast states to threaten to secede from the union unless Trump conceded on all their demands.

02:24:08.260 What's to stop that scenario from happening once again, knowing many of these people fear criminal prosecution, as they've already stated?

02:24:16.480 You will see Podesta, Clinton and anyone else in the event of a Trump administration saying, OK, Trump is going to come after us or at least he will demand his base will demand he does.

02:24:26.800 And we're going to face some serious consequences.

02:24:28.260 So they go to California or Washington.

02:24:30.920 Washington then says, and this is not out of this is this is really simple stuff.

02:24:35.060 Federal authorities, we will not allow you into our state.

02:24:38.300 Let's take a look right now with Donald Trump's charges in New York, because I've already argued this should be the case.

02:24:44.080 New York filed criminal charges against Donald Trump on bunk on a bunk pretense so absurd that even CNN called it nonsense.

02:24:50.940 Freed Zakaria, even MSNBC political analysts were like, we do not understand this on misdemeanor charge, which is normally a slap on the wrist, altering business documents beyond its statute of limitations, was upgraded to a felony, citing three potential criminal elements that were never met or or proven about a reasonable doubt.

02:25:09.500 With that subcategory that's never been proven to the public, they asserted this one crime is now a felony they can charge Trump with from New York to a resident of Florida.

02:25:18.180 What should have happened is Donald Trump, because I'll tell you what I do, go to the governor, DeSantis, and say.

02:25:26.500 When CNN comes out and calls this illegitimate, I think we have grounds to challenge this at a federal level and refuse to acknowledge this attempt.

02:25:33.880 We're now learning.

02:25:34.420 I think it's Missouri.

02:25:35.660 Is it is it Missouri has filed a lawsuit against New York, challenging the lawsuits against Trump as an attempt at election interference.

02:25:42.240 It has begun.

02:25:43.140 In this scenario, Donald Trump says publicly, I understand there's been criminal charges filed.

02:25:51.000 Even CNN is calling them ridiculous.

02:25:53.560 This is beyond a statute of limitations and has no legal merit.

02:25:55.980 And I will not waste my money nor taxpayer dollars of any state or the federal government to answer to a clearly political charge from a man who campaigned on criminally charging me and currently hired a guy who was just working in the Biden administration.

02:26:06.700 Ron DeSantis would then be met with the do you allow federal authorities, marshals or otherwise, to go to Florida and physically apprehend one of its residents who is not legitimately charged under any real statutory authority.

02:26:19.520 DeSantis has got a really tough decision on his hands if that's the case.

02:26:23.520 Allow federal authorities to effectively kidnap the frontrunner for the presidency and one of your residents using external authority that you will not stop proving yourself impotent and weak or outright say it would be a criminal effort for federal authorities under false legal authority to come and take one of our residents and we will not allow it.

02:26:44.100 Yeah.

02:26:44.480 It's a constitutional crisis with no answer.

02:26:46.080 Yeah, but it seems it also seems kind of far fetched.

02:26:49.240 I mean, the stars would really have to align for this to happen, including Trump.

02:26:54.100 He would have to he would have to make some pretty confident plays to make something like that.

02:26:57.780 Trump would have to actually be defiant.

02:26:59.540 Yeah, he would have to.

02:27:00.700 And every step of the way, he has bent the knee to what is clearly false.

02:27:04.540 Right.

02:27:04.840 The Georgia case now is frozen because of Fonnie Willis's improprieties.

02:27:08.520 But not only that, I think I think the more likely scenario, this is what I would how I see it playing out.

02:27:13.260 I think that Donald Trump's going to lose this election for sure.

02:27:18.200 And Biden's going to get it.

02:27:19.400 I think that the state will never allow Trump to go back in office no matter what.

02:27:24.380 It doesn't matter what the circumstances are.

02:27:26.580 And I think that they'll lie, cheat and steal if they need to, to make sure that he never gets back into office.

02:27:30.860 I think that they are more than capable of doing that and will do it.

02:27:33.900 But that that actually think Trump's going to win.

02:27:35.960 You think so?

02:27:36.660 But but your argument doesn't.

02:27:37.920 I'm not going to vote for him.

02:27:39.000 Hundred bucks.

02:27:40.040 Oh, well, yeah.

02:27:41.640 Dinner.

02:27:42.340 Yeah.

02:27:42.480 Just to make it friendly.

02:27:43.700 All right.

02:27:44.640 I agree with what you're saying.

02:27:45.900 Yeah.

02:27:46.460 And then when they do everything that they do, Republicans with experience from 2020.

02:27:51.800 And I'm not talking about federal level who seem to write a lot of angry letters.

02:27:54.360 I'm talking about state level guys who are a bit more aggressive.

02:27:59.140 Say we've prepared for this eventuality and we've already lined up our legal documents, our legal teams.

02:28:04.700 And we hereby challenge you cannot move forward and you end up with a constitutional crisis.

02:28:09.040 But that would require Trump.

02:28:10.360 Trump also Trump would have to back him.

02:28:12.920 He would have to be completely defiant to it.

02:28:14.820 He would not.

02:28:15.220 He would have to push it.

02:28:16.060 I think he would.

02:28:16.880 Because without him, without him, what do they have?

02:28:19.580 He could concede.

02:28:20.740 Yeah, he could concede.

02:28:21.740 And if he does.

02:28:22.440 And I think he will.

02:28:23.120 I think he'll concede to it.

02:28:24.160 And I think he'll finally go off because he'll be like, there's just no way anymore to get into this system.

02:28:29.920 I mean, I've done everything I can do.

02:28:31.400 They prosecute me.

02:28:32.420 They take all my cash.

02:28:33.700 They take my family away.

02:28:35.180 They'll destroy me.

02:28:35.980 He has not been a fighter.

02:28:37.440 I disagree.

02:28:37.880 If so, possibility, yes.

02:28:40.500 Yeah.

02:28:40.760 If this were the case, Trump would have cut a deal a long time ago and said, please leave me alone and I'll go away.

02:28:44.760 Yeah.

02:28:45.260 If they offered him one.

02:28:46.740 I mean, if they, that's the thing is, did they offer him one or did they want to make an example out of him?

02:28:51.200 I think they want to make an example out of him.

02:28:53.040 That's what I think.

02:28:54.020 I think that I, the likelihood lies with establishment forces meeting with Trump and saying, if you bow out gracefully, make it look real.

02:29:09.540 Get it.

02:29:09.900 We'll get you.

02:29:10.240 We'll get you a few good licks in and then throw the match.

02:29:12.900 We're going to leave you and your family alone.

02:29:14.420 And Trump is clearly saying, no, that I don't see a reality where they're like, let's destroy everything and bring ourselves to the greatest risk we've ever faced.

02:29:25.300 Going to war with a man this popular.

02:29:27.680 The first thing any strategist is going to do is say a pure victory is not worth it.

02:29:33.000 A the risk to ourselves and the damage we incur from going to war with Trump is not worth it.

02:29:37.520 We need to first try and cut a deal to see if he's willing to end the fighting and give us the victory.

02:29:44.520 It's why every legal battle ends in a settlement and not literally every, because the cost of the suit is greater.

02:29:50.100 I understand.

02:29:50.820 I understand.

02:29:51.460 But when I look back to the impeachment, it didn't look like there was any deals trying to be cut ever.

02:29:56.320 It looks like it looks like.

02:29:58.540 Take them.

02:29:59.340 Yeah.

02:29:59.480 Well, I mean, maybe.

02:30:00.300 But I think also I'm not sure that you can deal with him that way.

02:30:05.140 I'm not even sure that that he does dealing the same way that you and I would do dealing.

02:30:09.980 If that's the case, he doesn't concede.

02:30:11.440 Yeah, but I think he will concede.

02:30:13.540 I think he will end up conceding.

02:30:15.160 I think he doesn't have much choice at this point.

02:30:17.240 I think I think come November.

02:30:19.500 I think come November, come November, Biden wins.

02:30:22.860 And they're going to make sure.

02:30:24.140 I mean, they're not going to let Trump back in office.

02:30:26.500 I'm sorry, guys.

02:30:27.140 They're not going to do it.

02:30:28.140 I don't disagree with you.

02:30:28.900 I just don't see how Trump supporters, regardless of what Trump does, are just going to be like,

02:30:35.140 well, I guess this is our country now.

02:30:37.180 I think the worst case.

02:30:38.920 Let's let's let's entertain this thought.

02:30:40.620 Donald Trump says, you know, look, we tried.

02:30:43.580 We really did.

02:30:44.540 That's the end.

02:30:45.560 I'm gone.

02:30:46.640 Good luck, America.

02:30:48.420 Then I think the probability is a handful of guys in sparsely populated areas just do

02:30:56.640 not recognize the authority of the government.

02:30:58.620 We see people stop paying taxes, smaller and smaller pockets.

02:31:01.780 But the federal government only has about I believe it's 100,000 federal law enforcement

02:31:05.660 authorities active in the United States that cannot police 160 million people, which it

02:31:12.720 wouldn't.

02:31:13.100 Let's say let's say half and let's say 10.

02:31:14.820 Let's say a million people just completely lose confidence and then just decide what's

02:31:19.320 the point.

02:31:20.160 Not any intentional act, not a mass protest.

02:31:23.140 They just literally say this letter means nothing to me.

02:31:26.800 Yeah.

02:31:27.140 So confidence is everything.

02:31:28.800 And the way I've described it is.

02:31:30.380 But there's no where's the will?

02:31:31.820 Like, where's the will?

02:31:32.700 After this point, for instance.

02:31:34.300 No, no, no.

02:31:34.920 But let me make my point.

02:31:35.800 It's not about will.

02:31:37.100 Will does not factor into this equation.

02:31:39.120 If a clown showed up to your doorstep banging on the door, you'd say, go away.

02:31:43.680 Sure.

02:31:44.080 And what if he said, I have a clown warrant.

02:31:45.860 Open your door.

02:31:46.740 You'd be like, get off my property or else I am from the clown authority, duly elected,

02:31:51.060 and you will be put in clown jail.

02:31:52.900 You'd be like, what is going on?

02:31:55.560 Understanding how absurd that scenario sounds is what happens in middle America after Biden

02:32:00.600 wins a second time where the entirety of the independent media apparatus is saying

02:32:08.520 the legislative bodies have called Trump the winner, regardless of whether Trump concedes.

02:32:12.600 And then you get some guy at his house and a federal authority shows up and he's like,

02:32:17.800 who are you?

02:32:18.680 And he's like, I'm a federal authority with a warrant.

02:32:20.360 He goes, my county doesn't recognize your warrants.

02:32:22.980 My sheriff has already said, you guys can't come here.

02:32:26.000 Yeah.

02:32:26.220 I mean, I guess, I guess in that case, though, you would, that would be will then.

02:32:30.600 Then people would have the will.

02:32:31.700 If you had a split legislative body who said, no, he's the actual winner.

02:32:35.580 Then, yeah, I think then you can make a case for maybe people having the willpower to have

02:32:39.380 some sort of resistance to this.

02:32:41.020 This, this, I think this still looks at like a simplified view of how these things typically

02:32:46.900 happen in California, in, uh, in Illinois, in New York, roving bands of marauders are

02:32:52.780 destroying department stores.

02:32:54.860 These are people who already don't care about the authority of the police.

02:32:59.120 It's not a question of willpower.

02:33:01.060 They're not saying like, guys, we need to stand up and defy the police because no, they're

02:33:04.440 just like, yo, those cops can't do anything to us.

02:33:06.640 And they're doing whatever they want.

02:33:08.200 When that mentality reaches average Americans in sparsely populated areas, not because they

02:33:14.580 stand up and say from my cold, dead hands, but because they're like, man, the government

02:33:19.120 really can't do anything.

02:33:20.080 Can they?

02:33:20.940 My homes are being looted.

02:33:22.600 Illegal immigrants are murdering my neighbors.

02:33:25.160 These people aren't even, aren't even the authority here anymore.

02:33:27.940 So let's say it starts with this in, uh, uh, Eastern Maryland, you had a woman killed by

02:33:33.040 an illegal immigrant.

02:33:33.580 And I think just in Ransom, West Virginia, not too far from here, we're in West Virginia.

02:33:38.320 That, that was an illegal.

02:33:39.360 Is that what it was, Kellen?

02:33:40.520 Illegal immigrant killed some woman in Ransom or something like that?

02:33:43.380 Yeah, it was, um, yeah, right on the border of Ransom, Charleston, Harper's Ferry, that

02:33:47.020 area.

02:33:47.680 Illegal immigrants who were brought in under Biden's policies are, are committing crimes

02:33:52.760 all across the board.

02:33:54.200 What I see as a potentiality is with the political instability, you get five guys sitting at a

02:33:59.700 bar drinking and being like one guy's crying his eyes out, screaming.

02:34:03.580 And punching the wall because his wife was just murdered by an illegal immigrant.

02:34:07.640 And the other guys go, we got to do something about this.

02:34:10.460 And they say, guys, take our numbers down.

02:34:12.840 We're making a group chat.

02:34:14.040 Anybody you see causing any trouble, we're going to deal with it because there's no law

02:34:18.700 enforcement anymore.

02:34:19.740 Then what happens?

02:34:20.480 Neighborhood watch.

02:34:21.220 That's it.

02:34:21.920 Neighborhood watch.

02:34:22.920 Neighborhood watch shows up.

02:34:24.080 They're going around.

02:34:25.320 Illegal immigrant once again, because we've been seeing it across the country or roving,

02:34:29.160 roving gang smashing into a department store and a couple of guys who said, we need to

02:34:34.020 protect our neighborhood, show up with guns.

02:34:35.880 And they say on the ground.

02:34:37.240 Now they scream.

02:34:37.940 A shootout happens.

02:34:39.640 Federal government says we have nothing to do with this and we won't be involved.

02:34:42.680 Why do I think that'll happen?

02:34:43.800 It already does.

02:34:45.100 In places like Chicago for a long time now, already the feds do not intervene when these

02:34:49.260 mass shootings happen.

02:34:50.220 The media doesn't report on it.

02:34:51.300 When that stuff spreads because of the mass illegal immigration, which is already resulting

02:34:55.060 in people getting shot and killed, you're going to have locals with guns.

02:34:59.660 Just like, look at the guy in Arizona, the rancher.

02:35:01.760 But why would they loot where there's locals with guns?

02:35:04.620 Why are they looting where there's locals with guns?

02:35:06.600 They're not.

02:35:06.920 They are.

02:35:07.560 Where are they looting these places where there's locals with guns?

02:35:11.200 Chicago?

02:35:12.800 Chicago is not, that's not a gun friendly place at all.

02:35:15.620 It's gangs have the guns and not the citizens.

02:35:18.960 Wrong.

02:35:19.620 So in Chicago.

02:35:20.820 Chicago, Illinois is one of the most, I mean, that's one of the most gun unfriendly places

02:35:25.100 in the United States.

02:35:26.200 Yes.

02:35:26.500 And so who has the guns?

02:35:27.820 The criminals.

02:35:28.780 And why are they criminals?

02:35:30.540 Well, because they have guns.

02:35:32.160 Well, because there are too many stories out of Chicago.

02:35:33.780 People aren't allowed to defend themselves against them.

02:35:35.160 And so what they do is they illegally acquire the guns because they're scared of the gun

02:35:39.540 violence and they become criminals.

02:35:41.240 So a lot of the stories out of Chicago, it's not gangs.

02:35:43.960 That's just something the media says because they want to dismiss the gun violence.

02:35:47.280 It is honor, is honor shootings and, and local disputes, particularly over women and, and

02:35:53.100 the view people have of each other.

02:35:54.340 Meaning a guy says, you disrespected me and they get into a gunfight.

02:35:57.620 Then you end up with a lot of stories where a father, typically a black guy goes to Indiana

02:36:02.100 and buys a gun because he's like, they're shooting up my neighborhood.

02:36:04.880 Then the, then the police of Chicago come in and beat the crap out of an arrest them for

02:36:08.400 having an illegal gun.

02:36:09.040 And his only crime was having a gun.

02:36:10.900 Yeah.

02:36:11.060 But that's a lot of, I don't see inside of like areas where there's actual gun ownership,

02:36:16.980 where it's not criminalized the same way it is in Illinois.

02:36:19.420 West Virginia just saw in Charlestown, a woman murdered by an illegal immigrant.

02:36:23.920 Yeah.

02:36:24.020 But that's not a mob breaking into a store.

02:36:26.500 No, but it is a component of lawlessness.

02:36:28.920 The federal government will not enforce our borders and now criminals, rapists and murderers.

02:36:33.240 And some I think are good people, but the bad people are coming across the border with

02:36:37.060 no enforcement and the people of West Virginia are strapped to the teeth.

02:36:40.480 But this happens constantly.

02:36:41.780 And I haven't seen a great, a great shift of political will in this.

02:36:46.060 The areas, the areas inside of major metropolitan areas where they won't allow citizens to have

02:36:51.660 guns and they tell the police to stand down and you could go break in the stores.

02:36:54.780 The people there put up with this.

02:36:56.340 I don't know why they put up with this.

02:36:57.220 This is what you're missing.

02:36:58.160 So when that mentality reaches West Virginia is when social order at the federal level

02:37:04.240 breaks down.

02:37:04.980 When the people of West Virginia who are armed to the teeth begin experiencing people looting

02:37:09.280 and illegal immigrants killing people is when illegal immigrants will start getting shot.

02:37:13.680 I don't think, I think the big hole here in your argument is that I don't think that

02:37:19.480 they're going to move into places where there's heavily armed store owners and try to loot them

02:37:23.780 because they will get shot.

02:37:25.200 Why did the illegal immigrant come to answer?

02:37:26.040 When I look at Black Lives Matter, when Black Lives Matter started to go out to rural districts,

02:37:29.780 they were opposed by people with guns and they left.

02:37:32.740 They got out of there.

02:37:33.800 They beat feet because they were like, wait a second.

02:37:36.380 Andrew, wait a second.

02:37:38.340 What you're missing is I am saying if X, then Y, and you are saying, but before that happened,

02:37:45.280 that didn't happen.

02:37:46.180 What I am saying is illegal immigrants are, we now have a story in West Virginia, which

02:37:52.480 is the second most Trump supporting state in the country, just passed constitutional

02:37:56.360 carry, loves its guns, had an illegal immigrant murder someone at a time of heightened alert

02:38:01.740 around the problems we're seeing of homelessness in various cities, but it's escalating.

02:38:08.920 So what I said is if this, if, if, if those problems come to West Virginia, you will begin

02:38:16.880 to see people say federal authority is gone.

02:38:20.140 Sure.

02:38:20.680 I, well, I would agree if, if you had like some type of a situation where you had illegal immigrants

02:38:27.980 busting into stores or what you see in Chicago with, um, you know, when, uh, uh, they go in

02:38:34.260 and they loot the entire place.

02:38:35.460 Right.

02:38:35.760 And then they run out with all the gear and you can't do anything.

02:38:37.820 You're hamstrung.

02:38:38.600 Let me ask you this.

02:38:39.240 If, if I started to see that, sure.

02:38:41.540 But I don't think you ever would because they will literally mow them down and there's,

02:38:45.680 there's not a damn thing.

02:38:47.060 Who will mow them down?

02:38:47.520 The, uh, shop owners.

02:38:49.520 So, uh, did you, so there's a couple of stories in the news.

02:38:52.000 And citizens, just people in the store will be like, no, motherfucker, bam, bam.

02:38:55.680 And that's what they'll do.

02:38:56.600 I completely agree.

02:38:57.620 Yeah.

02:38:58.080 That's what they'll do.

02:38:58.520 And then, and then what, what does the federal government intervene?

02:39:00.980 No, I don't think they would need to.

02:39:02.220 Right.

02:39:02.480 Okay.

02:39:02.680 So, so let me just, it would just be a one-off.

02:39:04.640 You'd never do it again.

02:39:05.420 And I'll say one more thing.

02:39:06.760 So it is your opinion then with, um, the couple, a couple of big stories we have in

02:39:11.120 the news right now of the illegal immigrants recently coming over raping children.

02:39:14.960 Uh, there was one about a 12 year old girl who was kidnapped.

02:39:17.300 A 14 year old girl was raped.

02:39:18.100 A 13 year old was raped.

02:39:18.920 You think that the men in those, and, and, and, and aren't those conservative areas?

02:39:23.060 I think it was like a Missouri and like Tennessee or whatever.

02:39:26.100 This happens in Texas constantly.

02:39:27.520 It happens in California constantly.

02:39:29.860 It's been happening forever.

02:39:30.580 And as this escalates, you believe that the men in those areas will just go, guess our

02:39:35.360 daughters are getting raped and do nothing.

02:39:37.720 Um, yeah.

02:39:39.460 Well, then there you go.

02:39:40.480 That's what I think.

02:39:41.220 Not only do I, not only is that what I think, but I think a catalyst event, like what you're

02:39:45.540 talking about of kind of like, um, oh, we're going to go enforce it ourselves.

02:39:49.460 We're going to go enforce it ourselves with guns and, and this type of thing.

02:39:53.380 Um, already had, they don't even, they, they don't really even have access to them.

02:39:56.780 Like California, the areas in California where that kind of stuff is prevalent, you can't

02:40:00.400 get your hands on guns.

02:40:01.380 And if you can, it's highly regulated, uh, and the penalties against you for driving around

02:40:06.860 and doing anything with it are extremely severe.

02:40:09.460 I don't understand.

02:40:10.220 Like what I'm describing is, is in essence, Hey, if this thing is already happening, gets

02:40:15.820 worse, right?

02:40:16.940 Like we already have had instances where the far left has taken over cities with, with

02:40:22.080 weapons and pointed them at drivers.

02:40:23.720 They're cities.

02:40:24.140 And is it there in that they control it with guns, but people are fleeing these cities who

02:40:30.040 don't have those political views?

02:40:31.100 But you're, nobody's going to the cities.

02:40:32.800 They're fleeing to, in other words, conservative strongholds, right?

02:40:36.620 Who are, that are armed to the teeth.

02:40:38.160 There's no marauders anywhere because they get blown away.

02:40:41.720 Leftist cities go, okay, we're just going to take our cops out and you guys can do whatever

02:40:45.920 the hell you want.

02:40:46.960 Yeah.

02:40:47.160 It's their cities.

02:40:48.160 They can do that.

02:40:49.020 Right.

02:40:49.440 But in conservative America, you don't see those problems.

02:40:53.000 I'm confused because we, in conservative America, we are seeing illegal immigrants

02:40:56.180 killing, raping.

02:40:57.200 Yeah.

02:40:57.260 But you've always seen illegal immigrants killing and raping.

02:40:59.960 And now it's like profoundly worse considering the mass waves that we've seen.

02:41:04.660 And now people are shocked that in like Harford County, which is Eastern Maryland, which don't,

02:41:08.620 you know, that that's liberals that come.

02:41:10.060 But in Western Maryland, you had this and in West Virginia, you've had it.

02:41:12.780 I don't think an increase in immigrant attacks is going to be enough of a catalyst for what

02:41:17.540 you're talking about.

02:41:18.200 Let me just give a kind of big picture here because I feel like you guys are kind of going

02:41:22.900 in circles and things like that.

02:41:24.880 And Tim is speculating about a breakdown and we don't know the future, you know, et cetera.

02:41:32.100 But I think his broader point is that we are headed towards some sort of social breakdown,

02:41:41.100 which is in many ways unpredictable.

02:41:43.760 But I would add that, and I agree with that.

02:41:45.940 And I think it's very plausible.

02:41:48.420 The other thing is that this is going to function through the election.

02:41:52.200 So it's not just like the cops start enforcing laws and people take care of their own and

02:41:59.200 there's a street war, things like that, that, that kind of thing can happen.

02:42:02.360 It has happened before.

02:42:03.460 It's that there's going to, it's going to kind of symbolically happen through the election.

02:42:08.800 There, there is going to be some, regardless of what happens in 2024, the other side will

02:42:15.900 not accept it.

02:42:16.760 I think a strong possibility.

02:42:18.360 That I agree with.

02:42:18.880 Yeah.

02:42:19.120 But I think that that already happened, but that happened already.

02:42:22.200 Neither side accepted.

02:42:23.400 I don't think any, either side was a shit show and it's gotten worse.

02:42:27.380 So we're going to head to a point where this is going, there is going to be a consequence.

02:42:32.220 No one is going to kind of calm down at any point.

02:42:35.760 Yeah, I think that there'll be social upheavals, but I don't think it's, I don't think whatever

02:42:39.880 the social upheavals will be are going to look like that.

02:42:43.120 That's all I'm saying.

02:42:43.880 I don't think they're going to look like that.

02:42:45.040 What is that?

02:42:45.380 What does that refer?

02:42:45.800 I don't think it's going to look like, um, you know, conservative Americans beginning to get

02:42:49.440 together and take the law into their own hands while the feds don't intervene.

02:42:52.680 I don't think, I think that that's a little far-fetched.

02:42:55.040 So it happened with the Bundy ranch.

02:42:56.480 Yeah.

02:42:57.260 And the Bundy ranch, what it was against federal feds.

02:43:00.120 So it's not like they didn't intervene.

02:43:01.360 It was a direct conflict.

02:43:01.860 Yeah, they did.

02:43:02.260 They did.

02:43:02.640 They did intervene.

02:43:03.580 And that that's happened before.

02:43:04.960 It happened at Ruby Ridge.

02:43:05.820 But to clarify, it's not an intervention.

02:43:07.360 It was a direct conflict between the feds.

02:43:08.820 Yeah, yeah, it was.

02:43:10.300 It was a direct conflict.

02:43:11.280 But that's happened before many times, too.

02:43:12.940 There have been many times where single American families have fought with the feds.

02:43:16.980 And now considering the question comes to a head, like, like, if you, no one predicted,

02:43:20.720 very few elite commentators predicted the end of the Soviet Union, like, including Henry Kissinger

02:43:25.640 and so on.

02:43:26.240 At some point, it does actually break down and people are starving in cities and eating cat food.

02:43:32.680 It can happen.

02:43:34.100 It can.

02:43:35.100 Here's a quick question.

02:43:35.920 Sorry to interrupt.

02:43:36.340 But here's a quick question.

02:43:37.340 Do you think that during the 2020 election, weird things happened at polling locations?

02:43:43.280 Yes.

02:43:43.740 Do you think that most Trump supporters know this?

02:43:46.200 Yes.

02:43:46.660 Do you think that a tiny fraction of Trump supporters, let's call it 50, in various swing

02:43:51.720 states might show up with guns at various polling locations where they're legally allowed

02:43:54.620 to be armed at a certain distance?

02:43:55.840 I think that they've done it.

02:43:57.440 I think that they've done it.

02:43:58.740 But I'm talking like 2 a.m. at like the, what was it?

02:44:03.800 There was a, I forgot the name of the place.

02:44:05.980 A van pulls up at 4 in the morning, carrying a bunch of boxes.

02:44:09.240 And then suddenly the ballots get counted up for Biden.

02:44:11.520 And you, and you think this time around, you're not going to, like, there won't be

02:44:14.560 any kind of conservatives standing around watching this stuff happening.

02:44:17.180 Well, I think that they'll observe it a lot closer.

02:44:19.700 Yes, I do.

02:44:20.600 But the thing is, is when you're talking about political violence, okay, like the scale that

02:44:26.360 you're talking about, usually that requires, what's that?

02:44:30.020 What scale is that?

02:44:30.940 If you're talking about actual armed conflict between groups.

02:44:34.560 So like three guys in Charlestown, West Virginia who take guns because an illegal immigrant

02:44:39.220 killed somebody is large scale political violence?

02:44:41.340 Well, I think that you said it's going to be, what you said is this would be a snowball effect.

02:44:46.120 So it starts with these three guys and then it becomes worse and worse in like 10, because

02:44:50.440 otherwise, if it's just three guys and they go out and do some shit, what is that?

02:44:54.140 Right?

02:44:54.380 It would have to, it would have to scale it up.

02:44:56.100 This is the issue I take.

02:44:57.200 Every single time I bring up that these things have already begun, the, the, the people who

02:45:01.680 refuse and reject these ideas in their mind, imagine like a, like general Smith of Texas

02:45:09.000 meeting with general Walter.

02:45:10.660 That's not what I'm envisioning though.

02:45:11.920 I'm not talking about large scale militia or violence.

02:45:14.240 I'm talking about what happens when small pockets of people recognize or believe, I

02:45:19.820 believe to recognize that the federal government is no longer enforcing the law.

02:45:22.880 They form neighborhood watch groups.

02:45:24.740 That's true.

02:45:25.400 And then what happens when over, over the course of a couple of years, these things expand

02:45:28.980 and escalate.

02:45:29.620 You get more and more stories of shootings and chaos and conflict and lootings or otherwise.

02:45:35.000 This is the degradation and the collapse of a civilization.

02:45:38.160 Sometimes it comes to a head as, as Richard was saying, when the, the fear, the anger

02:45:43.140 and the sentiment have been bubbling up for a long time.

02:45:44.980 And, you know, I was talking to, um, why am I blanking on his name?

02:45:49.320 Uh, the black, the black water air, air prints.

02:45:51.240 And I asked him, does he see similarities to what's going on now with what happened in

02:45:55.940 other countries that he's worked in?

02:45:57.320 And he said, the only thing I can tell you, or the one thing I can tell you is that every

02:46:00.460 guy I've worked with says it happens instantly overnight.

02:46:03.580 Yeah.

02:46:03.740 You go to bed, everything's normal.

02:46:04.800 You wake up, there's no electricity and there's no internet.

02:46:07.020 And the problem that I think everybody has is they're living about the normalcy bias

02:46:11.980 and, and optimism bias gradually.

02:46:14.180 And then all at once from the sun also rises.

02:46:16.660 That's how you go bankrupt in 20 happens.

02:46:19.040 In 2018, the Atlantic ran an article where they interviewed, I think it was 2018, mine

02:46:22.320 meant 17, where they interviewed a dozen or so national security experts and asked them

02:46:26.360 about the, the prospect of a civil war in the United States in the next 10 years.

02:46:29.440 And the estimates were at the low end 30% to the high end 90%.

02:46:33.380 But they all agreed substantial likelihood was coming based on what they've seen.

02:46:37.440 We had that woman from the CIA, forget her name.

02:46:39.860 She said that this is what she did.

02:46:41.220 She analyzed countries about the, uh, uh, to assess their political stability for the

02:46:46.160 CIA and the U S government.

02:46:47.120 And she sees all the hallmarks happening here and has determined the United States is in

02:46:51.560 the period known as civil strife, which is bleeding Kansas was a civil strife.

02:46:56.020 It led to the civil war.

02:46:57.460 Nobody thought the civil war was going to happen.

02:46:59.140 Even when the civil war already started Fort Sumter civil war started battle at Manassas.

02:47:03.920 They still didn't think they were in a civil war.

02:47:06.220 So with all of these, these factors, 2018, I say, wow, you get a professor from Princeton

02:47:11.780 saying we are in the cold civil war.

02:47:14.360 It is, it is political.

02:47:15.800 It is legal.

02:47:16.820 It is technological.

02:47:17.920 It has not gone hot.

02:47:19.020 So that I agree with.

02:47:19.980 I agree that there's a cold war going on.

02:47:21.840 And then at that time, people say, Tim pool is crazy for entertaining.

02:47:26.020 And we had someone on the show and before, you know, this is like, I don't know what

02:47:31.260 2020, I said, I think we're on this track.

02:47:34.760 And if things don't change, we could be headed towards a civil war.

02:47:37.960 And, um, so Ryan long, we'll shout him out.

02:47:40.540 Cause I'm, he's a friend.

02:47:41.500 I'm a big fan, but this is really funny because then the comedian, right?

02:47:44.980 Yes.

02:47:45.280 Okay.

02:47:45.820 So we, we talk about these stories.

02:47:47.340 We talk about the conflict.

02:47:48.340 We talk about the summer of love riots.

02:47:49.820 We talk about the Nate, like people on the far left seized sections of their cities for

02:47:55.760 months and murdered people.

02:47:58.340 They took over a police department with rifles, started doing ID checkpoints.

02:48:02.120 And I'm like, they burned a police station down on live TV.

02:48:04.900 Absolutely.

02:48:05.400 More than one, more than one.

02:48:06.520 And I said, these are, this is civil strife.

02:48:09.180 And unless something happens to contain the violence, civil strife becomes civil war.

02:48:14.900 And the funny thing that happened was several, a year later or so, Ryan came on the show

02:48:20.780 and I feel like it was kind of an ambush, you know, no disrespect because I like Ryan,

02:48:25.140 but we're talking pre-show.

02:48:26.660 Everything's fun.

02:48:27.400 As soon as the show starts, he abruptly goes, where's the civil war, Tim?

02:48:31.260 You told me there was going to be a civil war.

02:48:32.600 And I left kind of feeling worried, but everything seems to be fine.

02:48:34.580 And I said on January 6th, 1000 Trump supporters stormed into the Capitol to disrupt the electoral

02:48:38.860 college vote count.

02:48:40.320 I was like, I don't understand your question.

02:48:41.720 Are you, is, is, is, are you saying that we have not seen a dramatic escalation of political

02:48:45.980 violence in this country is the assumption that civil war needs to happen the day after

02:48:50.600 someone questions whether on that track since 2018, if you went back to 2018, when I first

02:48:57.220 cited, I might've been 17, I don't know, it's been a long time, that article where they

02:49:00.540 referenced those national security experts, if you went back then and I made a video where

02:49:04.580 I said in the next six years, they will file 90 criminal charges against Donald Trump.

02:49:10.640 They will threaten him with prison.

02:49:11.900 They will have arrested his CFO.

02:49:13.600 They will have arrested four of his lawyers there in multiple States.

02:49:17.180 They'll be going after him.

02:49:18.360 They will be trying to stop him in every possible way.

02:49:21.120 The Steve Bannon will be in prison.

02:49:22.840 Peter Navarro will be in prison.

02:49:24.140 They'd be like, slow your horses down.

02:49:26.200 You nut job.

02:49:27.020 That's not going to happen.

02:49:28.040 And I know because it did happen to me when I was in these group chats with tons of DC

02:49:33.080 conservatives.

02:49:33.580 And I said, you don't understand the possibility, the potentiality for these things escalating

02:49:38.800 may be 10%.

02:49:40.060 But if you're not calculating as to what it would mean if that happens, you're ignoring

02:49:43.780 the problem.

02:49:44.280 And the response I got from all of these Trump supporters and all of these lawyers was

02:49:48.840 the federal government would never allow this level of destabilization.

02:49:52.820 They're not going to criminally charge people.

02:49:54.160 It's never happened.

02:49:54.960 It'll never be done.

02:49:56.080 No one's going to prison.

02:49:57.560 No one's taking over city streets.

02:49:59.060 Within two years, Antifa on the far left with rifles took over numerous cities.

02:50:05.140 You had Atlanta, you had Minneapolis, you had Seattle, you had Portland.

02:50:07.220 They're cities, though.

02:50:08.440 In 2020.

02:50:09.600 So within two years of me saying escalation of political violence is a real possibility,

02:50:14.040 it got to that point.

02:50:15.260 And why did I think that?

02:50:16.320 I mean, we had numerous instances of political violence on the rise.

02:50:18.600 Yeah, I mean, they had CHOP.

02:50:20.020 They took over whole sections.

02:50:22.100 Unprecedented.

02:50:22.600 Yeah, it's unprecedented.

02:50:24.060 But it's their shit.

02:50:25.960 They're ruining, they burned down their police station.

02:50:28.520 They have riots in their cities.

02:50:31.240 The spillover to conservative America.

02:50:34.580 That's where I would think I would start to see what you're considering political people.

02:50:39.000 I view this as the plugging the ears and going, la, la, la, la, never happened, won't happen,

02:50:43.180 can't happen, despite the fact it has literally all happened over the past seven years.

02:50:47.120 All of it.

02:50:47.600 Well, I don't think it has.

02:50:48.600 I don't think unless you have a population that's actually hungry and is unentertained

02:50:56.060 that you're going to see real actionable civil war.

02:50:59.380 What I think instead is happening is you're pointing to leftists who use Black Lives Matter

02:51:04.020 as a kind of a propaganda tool, told their own police to stand down, and let them burn

02:51:09.520 their own cities.

02:51:10.320 It's a great point, though, because it's exactly like, you're making a great point.

02:51:14.320 Like in 1861, when the people of Atlanta, in the heart of the Confederacy, came out and

02:51:20.000 said, we're going to fight ourselves and our own neighbors because we're mad at each other.

02:51:23.780 No.

02:51:24.180 In the American Civil War and the Spanish Civil War and in Russia, it's rural, it's conservative,

02:51:29.380 it's rural, and it's urban.

02:51:31.360 People in Atlanta did not walk out of their houses and go, ooh, I'm just angry at my neighbors.

02:51:35.540 No, they walked outside and said, we all agree with each other.

02:51:37.620 What they're doing over there is crazy, right?

02:51:39.600 People in the North came out and said, what they're doing down there is crazy.

02:51:42.000 For you to say, but those are their cities, that's not going to spill over.

02:51:45.680 Well, of course it is.

02:51:46.660 But it's a staunch bifurcation of this country, and you are living under the orders of them.

02:51:52.720 When they allow Antifa to take over, when they allow Antifa, when they get George Soros

02:51:57.600 DAs, when they get in state government, and when they use the legal authority of New York

02:52:01.780 state to imprison your popular frontrunner president, it doesn't matter if it's in their

02:52:07.260 cities.

02:52:07.760 They have taken over.

02:52:09.160 They are willing to use violence.

02:52:10.320 They've killed people, and they will exercise state-level authority at a national level to

02:52:14.320 steal power from you and your conservative town.

02:52:16.620 I do not see a reality.

02:52:18.200 Well, I don't think, here's what I think, ultimately, right?

02:52:21.140 Because we obviously vehemently disagree on this.

02:52:24.120 I think what will happen is, come November, Biden's probably going to win.

02:52:28.700 They're probably not going to ever let Trump in office.

02:52:30.760 And I think you're not going to see anybody do shit about nothing.

02:52:33.580 Because I watched, I watched as Black Lives Matter went through after they locked everybody

02:52:38.580 in their home, right?

02:52:39.940 They locked everybody in their home.

02:52:40.960 They shut down the entirety of the United States.

02:52:43.240 People were enraged about it.

02:52:44.820 They were told to wear a face mask while these guys were walking around burning down cities.

02:52:48.920 I got to pause you right there.

02:52:49.460 Nobody did shit, Tim.

02:52:50.920 They didn't do nothing.

02:52:51.780 I got to pause you right there.

02:52:52.840 Once again, I think you are misunderstanding.

02:52:54.300 Atlanta did not come out in 1861 and burn their own city down or fight amongst themselves.

02:53:02.420 They said, at a political level, we detach from you.

02:53:06.240 Now, I don't believe that civil wars follow the suit of the United States because this

02:53:09.900 was sovereign states in a union, which is very different from, say, Spain.

02:53:13.420 When you had cities in rural areas fighting each other, rural people tend to win because

02:53:17.180 they know how to survive.

02:53:18.140 What I am saying is, people in red states will reject the authority of California when California

02:53:23.820 through illegal immigration bolsters their congressional seats and electoral college vote count.

02:53:28.120 And then they say, you in West Virginia can't have guns.

02:53:31.080 And the people in West Virginia say, like how we can't.

02:53:34.300 And the reason why I think this, it's already happened.

02:53:37.680 Western Maryland declared itself three counties, second A, I'm sorry, 2A sanctuaries against

02:53:42.780 their own state and the federal government.

02:53:44.760 Numerous states have declared themselves illegal immigration sanctuaries.

02:53:48.400 Illegal immigrants are bolstering congressional seats through the census and the electoral college

02:53:52.100 vote count.

02:53:52.420 When you're talking about the cities, though, that have had sanctuary cities for illegal

02:53:57.400 immigrants, that's that's been liberal states for a long, long time.

02:54:00.600 The question is, will West Virginia and Wyoming bend the knee to California, who is clearly

02:54:08.340 breaking the law and violating the Constitution to enforce California's laws on West Virginia?

02:54:13.780 I believe the answer is at some point, no.

02:54:16.900 And if we don't get a clear answer as to who the president is, it accelerates that.

02:54:20.680 That's true.

02:54:21.480 I mean, if it became draconian enough where the electoral power of California was such

02:54:26.660 that it could impose its will on these neighboring states and to such a degree, to such a degree

02:54:31.140 that they could say you can't own guns.

02:54:32.840 No, California can't tell other states they can't own guns.

02:54:35.580 Yes, they can.

02:54:36.180 How?

02:54:37.040 California has what's their total electoral count?

02:54:39.520 36, 37.

02:54:40.760 That's not telling them that they can't own guns.

02:54:42.880 That just means that they have more of a population to vote for president.

02:54:45.460 Which political party votes?

02:54:47.140 So it's a congressional district.

02:54:48.280 Yeah, but still, they, but again, again, yeah, I get it.

02:54:52.900 I get that, you know, at the federal level, they would have to follow some type of federal

02:54:57.520 mandate like all the states, but California unilaterally can't tell them what they can

02:55:02.060 or can't do right this second.

02:55:03.720 So the issue is California, Washington, Illinois, New York.

02:55:07.180 The reason why they uphold illegal immigration is because it bolsters their congressional seats

02:55:12.000 and their electoral college vote count.

02:55:13.540 That means they have a captured census base that can't vote them out and gives them extra

02:55:20.780 seats so they can influence how West Virginians live.

02:55:24.180 At a certain point, people in West Virginia say no.

02:55:27.500 What's my proof?

02:55:28.400 Texas already did.

02:55:30.000 When the Supreme Court and the federal government told Texas to stand down and let the federal

02:55:34.020 government back onto the Rio Grande, Texas said no.

02:55:38.040 So we are watching it happen.

02:55:40.160 But they were doing that with weed.

02:55:41.300 They did that with weed for how long?

02:55:43.220 It's a big difference between not enforcing laws of the federal government at the state

02:55:47.460 level, like the DEA, or cooperating.

02:55:50.020 And that's what California and New York does with ICE.

02:55:51.660 They say, we just don't cooperate.

02:55:53.060 It's a bit different when you set up razor wire barriers and with armed troops say, get

02:55:57.400 the off of our river.

02:55:59.220 Yeah.

02:55:59.580 I, you know, the thing is, is that was neat to see Texas finally do something, finally

02:56:04.280 do something about their own border and ignore kind of some federal mandates that were

02:56:08.760 going on.

02:56:09.360 But ultimately, again, I, I'm just, I got to disagree with you.

02:56:12.960 Here's what I, again, I'll put this on record now because it's not that far away and we can

02:56:16.580 look back on this broadcast later.

02:56:18.820 Come November, chances are good.

02:56:21.320 Trump gets in.

02:56:22.900 All right.

02:56:23.200 I mean, not Trump.

02:56:23.800 Biden gets in and Trump supporters don't really do anything.

02:56:26.560 He concedes.

02:56:27.460 And that's, that's probably how it's going to go.

02:56:29.520 Again, I think you live in a movie.

02:56:30.360 I think you think doing something as a guy standing up and saying, I hereby declare instead

02:56:34.560 of seven guys going out and being like, Hey, can we make sure that any of those trucks coming

02:56:38.960 in don't have the illegals?

02:56:39.840 Because we've had a couple of trucks come through here that did, and they've been transport

02:56:42.880 them.

02:56:43.300 Now I tried calling nice, but they won't answer.

02:56:45.280 So Jim and Jim and I are going to go out.

02:56:47.300 Don't consider that a civil war.

02:56:48.500 Just that would be low scale vigilante ism.

02:56:50.900 So, right.

02:56:52.900 And what, what precipitates civil war?

02:56:56.360 It would have to be some large segment of the population that 5% or higher who are doing

02:57:01.780 some type of sedition or considerable treason, what would be considered considerable treason

02:57:06.780 to the United States government.

02:57:08.180 That would be, that, that is what I would consider to be some type of actionable civil warfare.

02:57:14.560 Just 5%?

02:57:15.980 Yeah.

02:57:16.420 5, 10%.

02:57:17.240 What is it?

02:57:17.640 60%, 60%, no, it's like 70% of the Republicans.

02:57:20.900 Think that the Democrats have already committed sedition.

02:57:23.300 Yeah, I'm sure that they do, but they're not acting in a way as though they have.

02:57:27.760 That's the problem, right?

02:57:28.820 If you think that somebody has truly acted in a way as to be a traitor, right?

02:57:33.460 What do you do to traitors?

02:57:34.220 Sedition and treason are two different things.

02:57:35.640 Yeah, I know.

02:57:36.020 But if you were to say that you think a person's acting in such a way that they're a traitor,

02:57:39.920 what do you do to traitors?

02:57:41.280 Last I checked, they get hung, right?

02:57:43.100 But, but treason and sedition are not the same thing.

02:57:45.140 Yeah, I know.

02:57:45.660 But my, the point of my hypothetical is to say they're not acting in such a way as though

02:57:50.660 these people, why they say you're seditious or they say you're treasonous, whichever one,

02:57:54.520 they're not acting as though they are.

02:57:56.120 They might say it, but they're not acting like it.

02:57:58.800 What does that mean they're not acting like it?

02:57:59.860 Well, if somebody is guilty of sedition, that's firing squad.

02:58:03.620 If they're guilty of treason, they get hung.

02:58:05.400 Sedition is not firing squad.

02:58:05.860 They don't get worked with.

02:58:07.000 Sedition is like maximum 10 years in prison, I believe.

02:58:09.760 Okay, fine.

02:58:10.300 Well, they're not getting 10 years in prison either.

02:58:12.520 But that's the question of whether Donald Trump gets elected.

02:58:15.100 The issue is conservatives overwhelmingly are, they're not revolutionaries.

02:58:20.700 The question is, do we expect with everything that's already happened, we're at the point

02:58:25.740 now where since the beginning of this conversation with Donald Trump, they've accused the president

02:58:29.320 of being a traitor.

02:58:30.140 They've accused Donald Trump of being a traitor.

02:58:31.540 That's true.

02:58:32.000 They have acted as though he is a traitor.

02:58:33.960 They have, they cemented his feet so that he couldn't run his administration.

02:58:37.820 They, they, they effectively levied legal war against him during his entire administration.

02:58:42.020 But you need a percentage of the American public who's acting in accordance with that

02:58:46.520 against the system.

02:58:47.980 No.

02:58:48.200 In a physical way.

02:58:49.560 Wrong.

02:58:50.500 I don't think that's wrong.

02:58:51.880 Read a book.

02:58:52.760 I mean, just saying.

02:58:53.480 Every single instance of social.

02:58:54.340 Just saying, oh, five guys are running around with guns in some small scale incursion.

02:58:59.260 That's civil, that's not fucking civil war.

02:59:00.880 And say it was civil war.

02:59:02.080 Well, that's what we're talking about is civil unrest and civil war.

02:59:05.560 And what precipitates that is social breakdown when people lose confidence in their government.

02:59:10.300 I agree.

02:59:10.560 That's what participates, that's what precipitates it.

02:59:12.600 That's true.

02:59:13.380 You have social breakdown, you have social cohesion breaking down.

02:59:15.820 And so you're sitting here going.

02:59:17.020 But that doesn't mean that that's what it is.

02:59:19.320 And you can also, you know what else you can get at, instead of civil war, you can get,

02:59:23.040 instead of revolution, instead of civil war, you can have a renaissance too.

02:59:27.740 Sometimes social breakdowns lead to renaissance.

02:59:29.880 You forget about that as well.

02:59:31.240 Well, usually you get a revolution or you get a civil war.

02:59:34.680 Civil wars will end with one power structure tending to take, typically takes over.

02:59:38.120 The destruction, the outright destruction is rare.

02:59:40.700 Someone always asserts authority.

02:59:42.440 But you get a revolution when no one fights, or you get a civil war when someone decides to fight back.

02:59:47.460 What we could experience is a communist revolution in the United States.

02:59:51.140 You could.

02:59:51.380 If the right does nothing, based on everything we've already seen, historic, the rhyming of history is already happening.

02:59:58.040 Civil strife is now.

02:59:59.780 The fascinating, I'll do this because we've gone way over.

03:00:02.660 But I'll just give one final point.

03:00:04.120 I'll give you the last word.

03:00:05.040 Okay.

03:00:05.860 It is accepted in every major political circle.

03:00:10.020 I don't mean universally by everyone.

03:00:12.400 I mean, progressives believe it.

03:00:15.100 Conservative academics believe it.

03:00:17.120 Foreign academics believe it.

03:00:18.700 The United States fits the entire criteria of civil strife, the precursor to civil war.

03:00:24.940 Canada released a report where they said, while improbable, we should prepare for the event because it would be highly catastrophic.

03:00:30.940 In the UK, the Financial Times published an article saying, should we begin, as investors, considering what a civil war in the United States will do to our portfolios?

03:00:42.340 Numerous high-level nation states are being advised on what will happen in the event of a U.S. civil war and why they should prepare in some way.

03:00:48.960 Not that they are.

03:00:50.900 Academics across the board, as I already mentioned, believe we are in this period.

03:00:54.660 We are facing an election where we already know from 2020 no one will agree on the results.

03:00:59.940 To then say, after this election, everything will be fine, I believe, is absurdity.

03:01:07.680 Okay.

03:01:08.260 I agree.

03:01:09.000 I can't believe I'm saying this.

03:01:10.720 I agree with Tim Pool.

03:01:11.560 I'll say this.

03:01:12.520 I'll say this.

03:01:14.300 No, I still have to disagree.

03:01:15.960 This has been going on for years and years where the American government has prepared for contingencies for civil war.

03:01:22.900 This has been going on forever.

03:01:23.920 And to be honest with you, Tim, you've been talking about the civil war since long before I even got into online politics.

03:01:30.340 I was listening to you talk about, hey, this is right around the corner.

03:01:33.400 It's coming soon to a theater near you.

03:01:35.440 The stage is set.

03:01:36.600 We're very close to it.

03:01:38.800 And we weren't really that close to it.

03:01:40.320 So the thing is, is like—

03:01:41.560 Do you think January 6th wasn't a dramatic escalation of political violence?

03:01:44.320 I think—sure.

03:01:45.320 I think that you could have a lead-up over many, many, many years.

03:01:49.800 Over many, many, many years.

03:01:50.800 So I was correct.

03:01:52.320 In—what did the SPLC accuse me of?

03:01:55.820 What do you mean?

03:01:56.320 What do you mean?

03:01:56.800 When did you predict Jan 6th?

03:01:58.680 In September—oh, I love this, because it's in the lawsuits against me, too.

03:02:03.260 SPLC's written about it.

03:02:04.280 Because in, like, September of—or it might have been August of 2020, I said, if Donald Trump loses, you're going to see dudes showing up in D.C.

03:02:14.340 They're going to lose their mind and storm the White House or something because they are not going to accept this.

03:02:19.860 You're right.

03:02:20.740 It wasn't the White House.

03:02:21.620 It was the Capitol building.

03:02:22.740 And then they wrote Tim Pool had foreknowledge of January 6th, and here's proof because he predicted.

03:02:27.740 No, it's because I read.

03:02:29.100 And I said, wow, based on everything these people are saying and preparing for, they're going to go to D.C. and do something like this.

03:02:36.080 And then they did.

03:02:36.840 Yeah, but I think if you say that the sky is falling enough times, just like Alex Jones, eventually a couple of those things are correct.

03:02:43.100 In 2018, when I said escalation of political violence is going to reach a massive tipping point, and then in 2020, they firebombed St. John's Church and the White House grounds, and they took over numerous cities, I predicted that.

03:02:53.640 So to say, you've been saying for a long time, it's around the corner, and every time you say something's going to happen, it does, but you're still wrong.

03:02:58.540 Dude, I don't care if I'm wrong.

03:02:59.660 Well, it's not every time you say it that it doesn't happen.

03:03:02.360 What I'm saying is that you've made the prediction so many times.

03:03:06.040 I've heard it so many times on your show.

03:03:07.960 Are we this close?

03:03:08.980 We're this close to Civil War.

03:03:10.340 It's right around the corner, ladies and gentlemen.

03:03:12.320 And the real question is, what will happen when the Civil War gets here?

03:03:16.500 I haven't seen the Civil War, Tim.

03:03:17.940 I'm going to be honest with you, and it doesn't look to me like the political will is there to do it.

03:03:21.940 January 6th people went quietly into the night, and nobody's really saying much about that either.

03:03:26.660 So the first thing I'll say academically is, I don't know if you've ever actually read history books.

03:03:33.020 A book?

03:03:34.420 A guy like me?

03:03:35.260 Read?

03:03:35.960 Yes, I've read history books.

03:03:37.500 So when you do, when you read articles specifically about various historical periods, you realize that we condense it in our history books.

03:03:46.140 And so when we talk about the rise of Hitler, people tend to forget that it's like 20 years through Weimar Germany, leading up to this point where this guy rises to power.

03:03:53.880 And so conditions were set for the Weimar Republic.

03:03:56.920 We had massive inflation.

03:03:58.160 I think you're either being purposefully obtuse or you cannot comprehend basic facts.

03:04:03.700 And the intentional being intentionally obtuse is to say, I recognize that many different academics have predicted civil war, state that we're in civil strife.

03:04:11.620 You said political violence is going to escalate.

03:04:13.980 The Summer of Love did happen.

03:04:14.920 You said in 2020 that a bunch of angry Trump supporters are going to go to D.C. and storm the White House.

03:04:21.000 It wasn't the White House.

03:04:21.640 It was the Capitol building.

03:04:22.540 You got that one right.

03:04:23.700 And you've been warning about how these things lead to each other.

03:04:26.080 And now today, as of today, because the civil war didn't kick off at any of those time periods, you've been wrong to predict these things are escalating.

03:04:32.900 The first thing is when I say, hey, look, here's a guy who said this thing is happening.

03:04:37.700 That's not me predicting it.

03:04:38.620 That's saying a Princeton professor has made this prediction.

03:04:40.920 A former CIA official has made this prediction.

03:04:43.000 Numerous security advisors have made this prediction.

03:04:46.020 Canada is saying it's improbable.

03:04:47.560 So it's not necessarily a prediction, but they're concerned about its potentiality.

03:04:50.540 Investors are not making this prediction.

03:04:52.320 We are in civil strife.

03:04:54.000 I'm not making that up, nor am I predicting it.

03:04:56.180 I'm saying that's an assessment of leaders in politics, infrastructure, and culture.

03:05:02.120 Of some leaders, of some people, not of every—

03:05:04.340 There's no united academia saying, there's a right around the corner, guys.

03:05:08.460 That's not happening.

03:05:09.780 You pull the sources that you want because they help craft your narrative, Tim.

03:05:13.020 And then when the summer of love happens, I was wrong.

03:05:15.440 Okay, so again, if you say the sky is falling every single day, eventually get some keys of it right.

03:05:20.340 But I've been hearing this from you for a long, long, long time.

03:05:22.880 I don't think we're here.

03:05:24.560 Again, I'll repeat it.

03:05:25.620 I have listened to you long before I was ever inside of any type of political commentary.

03:05:31.060 I was listening to you talk about coming civil wars, how this is happening.

03:05:36.160 What was wrong?

03:05:36.580 In the next few months.

03:05:37.600 What was wrong?

03:05:37.880 In the next few months, this could really set the stage between the states and this.

03:05:42.040 What was wrong?

03:05:42.520 Or a new civil war.

03:05:43.060 What was wrong?

03:05:43.880 They just didn't happen.

03:05:45.240 What didn't happen?

03:05:45.940 None of these civil wars that you were constantly predicting.

03:05:47.280 What civil wars did I predict that didn't happen?

03:05:48.960 What civil wars?

03:05:49.760 Well, I didn't come in with a list of all the times Tim Pooles predicted civil war.

03:05:53.080 But, dude, you're famous for it.

03:05:54.780 You're at the point where you've lost the argument and you're making things up.

03:05:56.920 What part of the argument did I lose?

03:05:58.940 You said that I predicted a civil war would happen at a period.

03:06:01.420 No, I'm saying that you talk about it constantly.

03:06:04.460 Right.

03:06:04.620 And I have not, I haven't seen any of the evidence of this.

03:06:07.900 Summer of love is not evidence.

03:06:09.460 No, it's not.

03:06:10.280 There's no civil war.

03:06:11.300 Even from the summer of love, it's not a civil war.

03:06:13.480 When did I predict the summer of love would lead to a June 21st civil war in the United States?

03:06:18.000 I mean, that's what we're talking about right now, though, is the leading.

03:06:20.800 So when is this?

03:06:21.620 So let's be hyper specific then.

03:06:23.860 What area, what decade, next five years, next four years, next three years, do you think we'll see a civil war?

03:06:29.140 Or is it something you're talking about that's 30 or 40 or 50 years down the road, or do you just not know?

03:06:33.800 Literally, I've said, I don't know.

03:06:35.280 You don't know.

03:06:35.700 And so you made up that I predicted a civil war at a specific period.

03:06:39.120 No, I'm saying that that's all I've heard you talk about for years.

03:06:41.860 What was I wrong about?

03:06:43.380 Again, Tim, I didn't come in prepared to debate with you.

03:06:46.100 Came in prepared to debate with Richard Spencer.

03:06:48.040 But I'm happy to actually come in again, and I will bring a list of everything Tim Poole has been wrong about, if you want me to.

03:06:54.020 I'm wrong about a lot.

03:06:55.660 Okay, well, then that makes my point.

03:06:58.180 But the idea that I would recognize me saying these things might happen and being wrong about it does not mean that I'm in general wrong about the bulk of what I'm saying right now.

03:07:07.320 The issue is numerous academics articles have recognized the basis of what civil strife is.

03:07:14.260 I don't care if we're looking for a national committee of recognizing civil strife.

03:07:18.260 Civil strife is a period described as political violence, death caused by political violence, and increasing political instability.

03:07:24.260 We can then assess everything that's going on and determine whether or not we think that's true, and everyone's allowed to have their opinion.

03:07:29.280 But in 2018, when I said, hey, this political violence is going to get worse, and then it did.

03:07:33.760 And then I said, man, I think if Trump loses, you're going to get a ton of these people on the right going to D.C.

03:07:38.800 They're going to lose their minds.

03:07:40.020 They're going to storm in the White House or whatever.

03:07:41.360 And then it happened.

03:07:42.580 And so those are just two big examples where I'm like, X equals Y.

03:07:46.880 I hope that doesn't happen.

03:07:48.580 Where we're at now is all of these things are behind us.

03:07:52.020 These have all happened.

03:07:53.240 And I say, if you look at history and what these things tend toward, and when you look at what has been said six years ago and what it has tended toward and what has already happened, things don't bode well for us in November.

03:08:03.680 And you go, no, we're fine.

03:08:05.140 And I'm like, OK, OK, whatever.

03:08:06.660 That's not what I said.

03:08:07.500 So I've been kind enough not to strawman you.

03:08:10.880 Don't strawman me.

03:08:11.560 I didn't say.

03:08:12.280 You said Biden's going to get elected.

03:08:13.240 I didn't say, no, it'll be fine.

03:08:14.060 Biden's going to get elected.

03:08:14.780 No one's going to do anything.

03:08:15.580 So that's more akin to what I'm saying, that I think that it is likely that Biden gets re-election, OK, and that you don't see a civil war from it.

03:08:24.520 Yeah, you might see some activism, might see some small scale violence that happens.

03:08:28.700 No, I don't think it's going to lead.

03:08:29.920 You've been strawmanning the whole time.

03:08:30.660 I don't think it's going to lead to anything widespread.

03:08:32.800 To be honest, I don't.

03:08:33.880 You're still strawmanning because my point.

03:08:36.220 I'm going to strawman my position.

03:08:37.700 You're strawmanning my position.

03:08:38.940 I wasn't talking about your position.

03:08:40.600 I was going to say Joe Biden getting elected starts a civil war.

03:08:43.660 Tim, I was talking about Andrew Wilson's position is not Tim Pool's.

03:08:47.880 I can't strawman myself.

03:08:49.420 It's my position.

03:08:50.460 You said, I don't think Joe Biden getting elected will start a civil war.

03:08:54.620 That's great.

03:08:55.380 That's my position.

03:08:56.680 When did I say it was yours?

03:08:58.100 But why would you make a point that I don't disagree on that has nothing to do with my position?

03:09:01.220 Because I just wanted to give you my position so that you understood my position.

03:09:05.380 OK, so I don't know what your argument is.

03:09:07.340 My argument is that I don't believe that there's going to be widespread politically political violence, even though I think Trump is going to lose.

03:09:14.560 I don't think there's going to be widespread political violence.

03:09:16.460 That's my point.

03:09:17.080 That's fair.

03:09:17.560 That's fair enough.

03:09:18.760 I feel like I want to intervene here a little bit.

03:09:22.840 I haven't contributed much over the past hour.

03:09:26.840 And we got to wrap up.

03:09:28.820 It's OK.

03:09:29.420 It's OK.

03:09:29.660 I'll be very brief.

03:09:30.520 An important difference is that with the American Civil War in the 1860s, you had two different elites that were willing to fight one another.

03:09:39.820 So you had a plantation elite and then you had a federal northeast elite.

03:09:44.240 They became in conflict.

03:09:45.960 Remember, Robert E. Lee, all these people, maybe Stonewall Jackson is an exception.

03:09:49.960 These were kind of like the billionaires of the day.

03:09:52.100 These were massive plantation owning people who had something to fight for.

03:09:56.280 I would say that currently the elites have they want the system to continue.

03:10:02.520 They have a lot invested in the system.

03:10:05.820 You don't have that situation.

03:10:08.220 Now, what we I think a better parallel to than the 1860s would actually be the collapse of the Soviet Union, where we're headed for a legitimacy crisis.

03:10:18.420 We have polarization, which I don't think was as present in the Soviet Union at that time.

03:10:24.220 But there's a legitimacy crisis.

03:10:26.480 It doesn't matter who wins.

03:10:28.300 Biden could win.

03:10:29.500 The Trump people are going to go crazy.

03:10:31.260 Trump could win.

03:10:31.860 The Biden people are going to go crazy.

03:10:33.280 There's just this impasse where both sides are going to say no to whatever happens.

03:10:39.160 Now, Tim might not be right.

03:10:40.840 And it's hard to speculate about how it unfolds.

03:10:44.200 I think it's unreasonable to demand that someone speculate about how it unfolds.

03:10:48.040 But I think he's fundamentally correct in the sense that the likelihood of delegitimization and general social strife and breakdown is remarkably high.

03:11:01.040 And to that extent, I agree with him.

03:11:03.360 I think you're getting at something, even if you're like might be wrong on the details.

03:11:07.040 Well, so the way we've literally described it is the collapse of the Soviet Union, the rise of the oligarchs.

03:11:12.740 When confidence in the central system breaks, you get in and this was a couple weeks ago we're talking about this.

03:11:18.980 Arizona has a meat processing plant that's owned by let's I don't want to use any specific examples.

03:11:22.920 Let's say meat meat plant.

03:11:24.660 That's the name of the company.

03:11:25.640 They've got 17 plants all across the country.

03:11:27.720 Social disorder, Biden wins, confusion unfolds.

03:11:32.580 And then you get like with Texas's assertion over the river against the federal government.

03:11:37.360 Let's say something like that happens pertaining to trade in some way.

03:11:41.160 I don't know how it escalates.

03:11:42.800 In this when the Soviet Union collapsed in in Ukraine, guy shows up to a factory with a gun and two of his buddies and he says, who's in charge?

03:11:51.700 They say, this guy, bring him over here.

03:11:54.340 He says, who delivers your goods?

03:11:56.240 And he goes, we usually get our goods delivered from this time to this time.

03:11:59.540 Who do you report to?

03:12:01.640 I don't know anymore because it's all broken down.

03:12:04.460 They're not answering the phone.

03:12:05.540 OK, you report to me now.

03:12:06.900 I'm going to make sure that all the goods your factory needs get in.

03:12:09.420 I'm going to make sure that all your men get paid and you guys eat.

03:12:11.580 Sound good?

03:12:12.000 And they go, sounds good.

03:12:13.700 And he goes, OK, I'm the boss now.

03:12:15.420 You make sure everybody knows.

03:12:16.940 That's how the oligarchs got their power.

03:12:18.260 When things like that escalate in the United States is what I am discussing, what I'm saying

03:12:25.380 right now with a with a unknown in the election, a federal level lawsuit, which we've already

03:12:30.560 seen now escalating to its, you know, I'll put it this way, as I always do every time

03:12:34.440 I talk about it.

03:12:35.000 For all I know, Joe Biden walks up to Trump, shakes his hand, they smile and they hug, they

03:12:38.540 cry and they say, we cannot let this country fall apart.

03:12:41.820 It's time to team up and restore the American values and everyone cheers.

03:12:45.100 And then we we all we're all happy with it, just low likelihood, right?

03:12:49.380 Or you have Oklahoma banning, banning abortion in every instance, and you have Colorado legalizing

03:12:55.240 up to the point of birth and potentially beyond this moral impasse cannot sustain itself next

03:13:00.860 to each other.

03:13:01.520 With more and more issues like that happening, we run into a Soviet Union style collapse.

03:13:06.160 Now, the problem that arises in that with the Soviet Union, you know, Ukraine, of course,

03:13:11.320 is massive farmland, which is which is needed.

03:13:13.500 Russia was very upset.

03:13:14.760 Putin obviously was very upset.

03:13:15.780 He wants to restore this.

03:13:17.460 But the issue is the geographics of the United States are very different, especially how the

03:13:20.760 states are divided.

03:13:21.760 They're not built upon natural barriers in the same way in the West as they were in a lot

03:13:25.860 of Europe.

03:13:26.420 Mountains separating certain territories, certainly true in the United States.

03:13:29.380 But for instance, what is Las Vegas?

03:13:32.460 Las Vegas is a production of modernity.

03:13:34.520 It cannot survive outside of national trade, all their water, right?

03:13:38.540 People can't live there.

03:13:39.440 Well, what do those people do?

03:13:41.060 That's an interesting question to what happens when you're going to get social breakdown.

03:13:45.020 Arizona has already tried to take Great Lakes water.

03:13:47.140 The only reason they can't is that the Great Lakes region has a treaty with Canada, with

03:13:50.060 Ontario, because Ontario borders the Great Lakes.

03:13:52.480 Due to this international treaty, it supersedes the authority the federal government have to

03:13:57.100 actually intervene on how other states can take water from the Great Lakes.

03:14:01.280 Arizona doesn't have water.

03:14:02.160 They need the Colorado River, Southern California does as well.

03:14:05.980 If we see any kind of destabilization, even 20% of what the Soviet Union went through, you

03:14:12.400 are going to have a major crisis in the Southwest when California says it's our water, but upstream,

03:14:18.960 they can't control it.

03:14:20.500 They have no access to it.

03:14:22.040 So what?

03:14:22.680 Does California send a delegation to Utah, Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado to negotiate the

03:14:27.700 rights after the federal government stops enforcing things?

03:14:30.620 Or maybe Arizona says no.

03:14:33.340 What happens if one state says, we've seen a major influx of people from Las Vegas because

03:14:37.280 they have no food into our state.

03:14:39.160 We need to fill up a basin so we can supply water to these people.

03:14:43.040 California says that construction would disrupt SoCal.

03:14:45.260 We got 13 million people.

03:14:46.680 You can't do that.

03:14:47.320 And they say, well, we got 10 million.

03:14:49.040 What are we supposed to do?

03:14:50.600 There are treaties, perhaps.

03:14:52.660 But, you know, we didn't see like great warring factions between the Soviets, but you did

03:14:58.020 get Chechnya.

03:14:59.240 You did get Georgia.

03:15:00.060 There was huge warring factions between the Soviets.

03:15:01.980 I just know.

03:15:02.880 But I just mean like it didn't break out into World War Three.

03:15:06.520 It didn't break out into like the nukes weren't firing at each other.

03:15:10.260 You will get negotiations on trade.

03:15:12.480 But my concern is if confidence breaks in the federal government because people can't

03:15:18.300 figure out what happened for the second time around, and if the escalation is that Trump

03:15:22.460 supporters refuse to accept a Biden presidency like we've already seen with Texas rejecting

03:15:26.380 federal authority on the border, California on drugs, I think Tennessee and West Virginia

03:15:31.660 and Maryland on guns and Virginia, then if that trend continues, which I don't see why

03:15:37.680 it wouldn't, I'd love to understand why it wouldn't, you end up with a Soviet-style collapse.

03:15:42.880 You'll end up with warring factions.

03:15:44.840 And the issue I see in the United States that I don't think would be as similar as the Soviet

03:15:48.280 Union is hyperpolarization, which didn't necessarily exist.

03:15:52.820 And for sure, Portland is Portland, but Eastern Oregon is very, very much not happy and has

03:15:58.400 actually voted to secede from the state already.

03:16:00.660 13 counties, I believe, have voted to secede from Oregon.

03:16:03.080 I don't see how those people in the event of breaking of confidence in the federal government

03:16:09.120 just say, we resign ourselves to our fate of being ruled by far-left degenerates who

03:16:13.820 have taken by force the capital of our urban centers.

03:16:17.400 This kind of resides around the idea that the feds stop enforcement or that the feds stop

03:16:22.320 participating or that the feds stop with the power dynamic of the people who are in charge

03:16:27.160 of these states and don't have the power to cut off federal funding and don't have the

03:16:31.060 power of the bribe and don't have any of these things.

03:16:33.700 And I think we're a long way away from that.

03:16:36.500 I just think we're a long way away.

03:16:38.340 So we will wrap up because we did go way, way over.

03:16:40.820 But I guess my final point is, and again, I will give you the last word, is I've never

03:16:46.340 argued it with soon.

03:16:48.180 Soon is a relative term, which could be we are in the Weimar Germany period.

03:16:52.060 And by 2040, with the collapse of Social Security, this is when it really breaks down.

03:16:56.460 But everything we've seen so far is not indicative of peaceful goings on.

03:17:02.060 One of the things that we regularly say around here, or at least I do, and it's kind of caught

03:17:06.260 on with some people is I just don't see the off ramp, right?

03:17:09.080 So maybe it's not in the next five years.

03:17:11.140 Maybe it's not in the next 10 years.

03:17:12.160 But I don't see the solution to the problems that we have.

03:17:15.620 Or at least I don't see people gravitating to what seem to be the solutions.

03:17:22.020 And honestly, I think the solutions are against stuff like we talk about focusing on family

03:17:25.600 and trying to hold that as the centerpiece of society.

03:17:28.700 And I don't see anybody doing it.

03:17:30.140 And anytime anyone does, anytime anyone does, they straight up get attacked by the left.

03:17:35.820 Feminists are all over.

03:17:37.080 You get attacked as some kind of misogynist just for saying the family is good.

03:17:41.280 Look what they did to the Kansas City kicker.

03:17:44.120 Just because he said that he espoused his religious beliefs and the left was apoplectic.

03:17:49.760 So it's not that it's going to happen here, now, then, or whatever.

03:17:54.460 It's just, look, we see a lot of problems coming.

03:17:56.800 But these degenerates are genetic dead ends.

03:17:58.160 They're all genetic dead ends.

03:18:00.080 That's an off ramp.

03:18:01.240 One last thing.

03:18:02.040 I don't think so.

03:18:02.820 Because it's time to go eat.

03:18:03.880 Okay.

03:18:04.940 The first discussions of civil war in the United States was actually in the 1820s.

03:18:10.380 The concern over slavery was bubbling up at that point.

03:18:13.180 And numerous political compromises had been made that kept people kind of calm.

03:18:19.980 And it reached ahead in 1861.

03:18:22.060 Bleeding Kansas, seven years before that, for, I think, it's like 15 years before the

03:18:26.860 civil war, people were murdering each other over the issue of slavery.

03:18:30.520 John Brown had walked up to a guy and blasted him in the face, just killed him outright for

03:18:33.740 being a slave owner.

03:18:34.280 That was before the civil war had happened.

03:18:37.140 And the last thing I'll say, the Battle of Fort Sumter, where only one guy died, it was

03:18:42.020 only by accident, is historically recognized as the start of the American civil war.

03:18:46.780 And even though it had started, people of the United States did not believe civil war was

03:18:51.040 happening.

03:18:51.480 And they went to picnic at the first Battle of Bull Run.

03:18:54.020 And they watched people get their heads blown off.

03:18:55.620 And it was bedlam.

03:18:56.120 So, Andrew, if you want to give your point and take the final word and then shout anything

03:19:01.680 out as we wrap up.

03:19:02.560 Sure, sure.

03:19:03.260 So I will say that the United States also prepared for a contingency with a massive war

03:19:07.460 to our neighbor to the North, Canada, which we were assured, I mean, they were positive

03:19:11.500 that there was going to be a conflict with Canada, and that they were going to have to

03:19:15.120 invade Canada, and that Canada was going to invade the United States.

03:19:19.000 And they had massive military contingencies for this.

03:19:21.680 Still up in the air.

03:19:22.300 Politics, not so easy to predict.

03:19:27.640 I agree with that.

03:19:28.440 Not so easy to predict.

03:19:30.160 Do I see that there could be a solution, an off-ramping solution because of the birthrate

03:19:34.060 crisis?

03:19:34.480 I do.

03:19:34.980 I think that that's a natural off-ramp.

03:19:37.160 If secularist loser degenerates can't reproduce and aren't reproducing, that bodes pretty well

03:19:42.180 for the future.

03:19:43.240 I'm not so sure that people with full stomachs are going to be doing massive, widespread political

03:19:49.080 activism to the point where they're actually harming people in the streets.

03:19:52.300 I don't think we're to that point yet, and I don't think the feds are going to back off

03:19:55.800 at all when it comes to federal enforcement, if anything.

03:19:59.060 I just don't see that happening.

03:20:01.580 Not even in my lifetime do I see that happening.

03:20:04.680 And then further from there, shout out to The Crucible.

03:20:08.500 That is my channel.

03:20:09.200 It's the fastest-growing debate channel on the internet, to my knowledge.

03:20:11.980 I appreciate the spirit of debate with you, Tim, and with you, Richard Spencer.

03:20:16.200 I think it was good.

03:20:16.620 I think it was fun.

03:20:17.140 Yeah, and thanks to you guys as well.

03:20:19.560 Richard, do you want final thoughts and shout something out?

03:20:21.240 Sure, yes.

03:20:22.320 I will be voting for our geriatric middle manager of a declining empire, Joe Biden, and so should

03:20:29.240 you.

03:20:29.640 Fail!

03:20:31.400 I just can't bring myself to bring about what we've just been talking about.

03:20:37.440 I do think it's going to be the last election.

03:20:39.440 So you can find me on Twitter.

03:20:41.240 That's probably the best place.

03:20:42.580 Or X, Richard B. Spencer.

03:20:44.860 And then if you go to Substack, it's Alexandria.

03:20:48.000 We actually do talk a lot about these political day-to-day issues twice a week.

03:20:52.360 And then we also talk about spiritual and religious things as well that I don't think you can find

03:20:57.560 anywhere else.

03:20:58.180 So Alexandria on Substack.

03:21:00.000 Thank you.

03:21:00.300 I am PhilThatRemains on Twix.

03:21:02.520 I'm PhilThatRemainsOfficial on Instagram.

03:21:04.380 The band is All That Remains.

03:21:05.280 You can catch us this summer on tour with Megadeth and Mudvayne on the Destroy All Enemies tour.

03:21:10.220 You can catch our new video.

03:21:13.020 It's called Let You Go.

03:21:14.080 It's available on Spotify, Apple Music, Pandora, Amazon Music, YouTube, you know, the internet.

03:21:19.460 And don't forget, the left lane is for crime.

03:21:21.360 I love how Phil has the most normal outro and the most normal thing to say of everything

03:21:25.120 we've talked about.

03:21:25.980 Well, you know.

03:21:26.560 Destroy everything.

03:21:27.640 Gotta have the normies tour today.

03:21:28.520 I'm gonna go play music and we're gonna live on it.

03:21:31.060 Because I mean, like, look, the politics stuff is important, but the point of all this, in

03:21:34.500 my opinion, is to make America the America that we want to have, where we can actually

03:21:39.540 have a society that does work together, that is not dysfunctional, that is not trying

03:21:43.660 to rip itself apart.

03:21:44.700 So, and to do that, I think we have to be able to put politics aside for entertainment.

03:21:49.260 And that's why I don't put politics into music too often.

03:21:52.420 All right.

03:21:53.780 Kellen, thanks for pressing all the buttons.

03:21:56.140 No problem.

03:21:57.140 Follow me on Twitter if you guys want updates about the culture war and, I guess, Timcast

03:22:01.180 IRL at Kellen PDL.

03:22:03.040 This was a fun one.

03:22:04.340 Didn't feel like three hours.

03:22:05.560 It went long, but it didn't feel that way.

03:22:07.180 We gotta wrap it up now.

03:22:09.140 It was great.

03:22:09.900 It was great.

03:22:10.200 I really do appreciate it, Andrew.

03:22:10.940 I thought it was good.

03:22:11.580 And Richard, of course, for the interesting conversation.

03:22:13.700 Everybody subscribe to Tenet Media for more of this.

03:22:16.940 Plus, we have some big ones coming up.

03:22:19.300 I think, maybe not next Friday.

03:22:20.640 I think next Friday might be good, but we have a big one coming up, so you don't want

03:22:23.460 to miss it.

03:22:23.740 So subscribe, share the show with your friends.

03:22:25.660 We'll be back tonight at Timcast IRL, 8 p.m., and we'll see you then.

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - June 21, 2024

The Culture War #69 Joe Biden Managing The END Of The US w⧸Richard Spencer & Andrew Wilson

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