The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Culture War #72 The End Of Liberalism With Carl Benjamin, Connor Tomlinson

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00:00:57.060 T'was 11 years ago. I was but a wee lad watching the internet when I came across a YouTube video

00:01:07.680 from Sargon Avakad. And his gentle musings informed me of classical liberalism in great minds like Locke.

00:01:14.820 And today, this man hates liberalism and is trying... I'm kidding.

00:01:19.080 But we're here to debate the limits of liberalism and post-liberalism.

00:01:24.820 Because now there are many people who, like Carl, I suppose, how would you describe yourself? Post-liberal?

00:01:29.160 I would call myself a traditionalist, but I am a post-liberal. That is correct.

00:01:32.280 Post-liberal. And I've been reading more comments from people on X, seeing a lot of these debates,

00:01:37.960 and finding myself in agreement with a lot of what post-liberals have been saying.

00:01:42.300 I mean, actually watching your show and stuff for a long period of time.

00:01:46.880 So this is what we're going to do today.

00:01:48.500 We have the Lotus Eaters gentleman here with us as well, and Phil Labonte.

00:01:51.860 So why don't we just start? You can do a quick introduction of who you are and what you do.

00:01:54.400 Sure. My name is Carl Benjamin. I'm the director of LotusEaters.com.

00:01:57.660 I'm one of the hosts of the podcast of Lotus Eaters.

00:01:59.480 And I finished a degree in philosophy last year because I wanted to get to the bottom of what it is

00:02:08.140 that is actually causing all of the trouble in our political system.

00:02:11.260 Because you'll notice that most countries that aren't liberal countries just don't have the problems that we have.

00:02:16.780 And so I wanted to understand why we have the problems that we have.

00:02:19.500 And I've come to the conclusion that I think it's liberalism itself that is at issue

00:02:24.340 because it's trying to bring about a world that has never existed and can never exist.

00:02:29.480 And so we're constantly finding ourselves butting up against reality,

00:02:33.420 against the idea from the ideals of liberalism.

00:02:36.700 And I think there is a reasonable way that we can simply modify the ideals of liberalism

00:02:43.020 to change the nature of it to more fit what we are and where we want to go.

00:02:48.780 All right. Connor's here as well.

00:02:50.120 Yes. Connor Tomlinson, also co-host over at LotusEaters.com,

00:02:54.040 host my own show, Tomlinson Talks on Wednesday afternoons there,

00:02:56.600 occasionally pop up in various magazines and on the New Culture Forum and the like.

00:03:00.680 If I were to describe myself, check my Twitter bio, it's Zuma Catholic Reactionary, in that order. 0.75

00:03:05.800 And my main critiques, I think, will be leveled at the false anthropology of liberalism,

00:03:11.620 namely the blank slate and the state of nature,

00:03:13.200 and how its attitude towards technology causes an antagonistic relationship with culture

00:03:18.920 and creates a kind of revolutionary dynamism that mandates it to homogenize everything

00:03:23.520 to be a differentiated human mass.

00:03:26.100 As you can tell, I've got real joy about this.

00:03:29.000 And then Phil's here, of course.

00:03:30.240 I am Phil Labonte. I'm the lead singer of the heavy metal band, All That Remains.

00:03:33.420 I am an anti-communist and a counter-revolutionary,

00:03:35.860 and I am trying to understand why these two gentlemen,

00:03:39.240 who I so strongly agree with on many points,

00:03:42.360 believe that the seed of liberalism's destruction is in liberalism's birth.

00:03:47.820 And it is something that I'm struggling with.

00:03:50.560 I'm not here to actually, we cast this as a debate,

00:03:54.500 but I'm really here to try to understand why they see the liberalism as they do,

00:04:00.340 because I don't see the same promises in liberalism that you were talking about.

00:04:05.420 So we can go ahead and get into this.

00:04:07.760 I think one way to really kick this off is that the other day when Carl first showed up,

00:04:12.240 and I mentioned I was really excited for this conversation,

00:04:14.540 Carl said he was excited to explain to Phil why he's a communist.

00:04:18.620 It was me that actually said that.

00:04:19.920 Oh, that was you?

00:04:20.600 Yes, it was.

00:04:20.980 Oh, sorry.

00:04:21.480 His call is much more polite than I am.

00:04:22.760 Yeah, yeah, I'm much kinder about it.

00:04:26.180 So I know you're joking, but only half-joking.

00:04:29.160 Yes.

00:04:29.460 So how is someone who believes in liberalism actually...

00:04:33.880 Well, first, first, the American word liberal, as it's often used,

00:04:37.740 has nothing to do with liberalism, only on the surface.

00:04:41.560 In what sense?

00:04:42.340 Because I don't know if we agree with that.

00:04:43.860 Yeah, I don't think I agree with that.

00:04:45.140 No, well, look, I can already see in my mind,

00:04:49.020 you are correct where this goes in the long run.

00:04:50.960 What I mean is if you go to the average person and say liberal or conservative,

00:04:54.720 they're thinking a gray-haired woman wearing a Save the Whales shirt

00:05:00.300 and a guy in a MAGA hat waving an American flag,

00:05:03.220 and they have no concept of the underlying ideologies that bring those people to those positions.

00:05:07.660 So when we say in the media a liberal, they're basically saying someone who voted Democrat.

00:05:13.520 And you could argue that is a function of what liberalism brought about.

00:05:17.860 I'm saying that most of these people have no idea about the ideology,

00:05:20.980 the underlying principles, and many of them would vote for Donald Trump,

00:05:24.860 as we've seen with these man-on-the-street interviews where they say,

00:05:27.680 how would you feel about someone building a wall to secure the border?

00:05:30.060 And they say, I'm for that, and you're a Democrat?

00:05:31.920 Yes, I am.

00:05:32.560 And, okay, well, that was Trump's position.

00:05:35.060 Yeah.

00:05:35.160 And so people really, it just means tribe.

00:05:38.180 But in the true sense of liberalism, how it got us to this point,

00:05:43.580 the word actually, like these voters do have a root in that.

00:05:47.580 So let's just start from the beginning then,

00:05:49.400 and why does liberal lead to communist, or where do we want to begin?

00:05:53.940 So the issue is that liberalism makes two promises, which is liberty and equality.

00:05:58.620 But the thing is, these are, of course, contradictory states.

00:06:02.340 Any amount of liberty destroys any amount of equality,

00:06:04.600 and any amount of equality destroys any amount of liberty.

00:06:07.320 And so you would normally have to choose one or the other.

00:06:10.460 But the problem that the liberals have is that the original liberals

00:06:14.640 managed to harmonize these two things into the same position

00:06:18.600 by creating a thought experiment called the state of nature.

00:06:21.840 So in the state of nature, it was theorized by Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau,

00:06:25.760 Montesquieu, like Hegel, various others,

00:06:28.900 that man must have existed at some point in a pre-social state.

00:06:33.740 So it was individual men and women running around the woods,

00:06:37.620 fighting off animals, you know, eating acorns, things like that.

00:06:41.340 And then they bump into each other,

00:06:42.800 and depending on the sort of disposition of the theorist,

00:06:45.860 would decide what they thought would happen in those interactions.

00:06:50.200 And then each one has their own reason for why man decided,

00:06:54.120 you know what, actually living in the state of nature is difficult or undesirable.

00:06:57.280 Let's all get together and consciously choose to form a society.

00:07:00.760 And from that point onwards, we can start deciding what kind of government we're going to have,

00:07:04.980 what kind of constitution the state should have, and things like that.

00:07:08.280 Let me pause and just ask you a quick question to elaborate.

00:07:09.960 You said that liberty and equality contradict each other.

00:07:12.800 Could you just give us a simple elaboration of what the question is?

00:07:15.460 Yeah, yeah, 100%.

00:07:16.120 So if I give everyone in the room $10, and I say, right, okay, now you're all equal,

00:07:21.760 well, any amount of economic activity will make you unequal.

00:07:25.440 So what is it about, how is it that liberalism makes a promise of equality?

00:07:31.700 I understand, and it's my conception, that it is, the concept is equality under the law.

00:07:38.640 I don't see where liberalism is making a promise of equality of results.

00:07:45.960 Because it has a false anthropology of fundamental human sameness.

00:07:50.560 I mean, the direct quote from Locke is that before civilization,

00:07:54.520 human beings existed in perfect freedom and perfect equality.

00:07:58.080 So the idea is that until culture, until different states, until geographies, frankly, intervened,

00:08:04.500 human beings, if they run out the same experiments, would produce the same outcomes.

00:08:08.880 And so this sets up an antagonistic relationship with the liberal state as a kind of compromise.

00:08:13.400 As Carl said, it depends on the disposition of the theorist as to why the state was formed.

00:08:17.580 Rousseau thought it was out of envy.

00:08:19.180 Locke thought it was out of a necessary compromise to secure property.

00:08:22.500 So my disagreement would be that I don't agree with the preconceived notion in liberalism

00:08:31.120 that there was a perfect state of nature where man was all equal.

00:08:36.780 I do understand the idea as in if man were running around in the woods alone, all men would be equal.

00:08:44.400 Basically equal, yeah.

00:08:45.520 Yeah, because of the conditions of reality.

00:08:49.080 But that doesn't change the fact that even in that context, there would be different heights,

00:08:55.760 different strengths, different abilities.

00:08:57.680 And so the fundamental, if the argument is that was the preconception,

00:09:02.780 then I would say I reject that.

00:09:04.780 That's wrong.

00:09:05.520 Well, so the liberal theorists agreed with you as well.

00:09:09.340 They'd be like, well, yes, there would be different physical powers,

00:09:12.260 but those physical powers would not be so great as to enable one man to, say,

00:09:17.540 monopolize natural resources or something like that.

00:09:20.360 If it's just one guy on his own in the woods, even if he's 10 feet tall

00:09:23.180 and is capable of tearing down trees, he doesn't really have access to very much more

00:09:29.360 than a guy who's five foot five and just has to climb trees to get fruits or something, right?

00:09:35.060 Because equality in the pre-modern sense isn't really about physical equality.

00:09:40.620 It's really about social equality.

00:09:42.260 Because the pre-modern societies are very stratified, very hierarchical.

00:09:48.100 You're born into a social class, and that class comes with obligations and restrictions, limitations.

00:09:53.820 And you will be born in the class and you will die in the class.

00:09:57.520 And you are sort of held in this web of social relations.

00:10:01.640 And I don't doubt that in its time that felt very oppressive,

00:10:07.100 especially up-and-coming, intelligent, active, educated, middle-class people.

00:10:12.400 I want to interject one thing.

00:10:13.440 The idea that society was created by man, I would reject that idea as well.

00:10:21.580 Well, this is a core theory of liberalism.

00:10:24.680 The state of nature is that society is something that's rationally consented to,

00:10:30.000 which is why it's called a social contract.

00:10:32.700 Yeah, but I mean, you know, great apes have societies, whether or not they're...

00:10:36.900 I totally agree.

00:10:37.360 You're absolutely right.

00:10:38.140 Okay.

00:10:38.340 This is where you get on to what Conor's saying about the false anthropology of it.

00:10:41.780 It's not true.

00:10:42.480 You know, man has never been a solitary animal.

00:10:44.400 And I would...

00:10:44.820 So I would...

00:10:45.400 I agree with you guys about that then.

00:10:47.080 So I think that maybe my disagreement here is my understanding of liberalism

00:10:53.420 as opposed to the way that you guys are linked.

00:10:56.660 So it would be an incomplete understanding because I'm not as versed.

00:10:59.540 You know, I haven't read as much of Conor Locke and stuff.

00:11:01.260 So go ahead.

00:11:01.900 But you're completely correct that they're wrong on that, right?

00:11:04.300 And the thing is, they didn't know that they were wrong on that

00:11:06.420 because, of course, we've got the benefit of 300 years of archaeology.

00:11:09.340 Yeah.

00:11:09.680 They didn't.

00:11:10.200 So they had to assume, well, society can't always have existed, can it?

00:11:14.220 Well, it turns out it actually has, you know.

00:11:16.740 At least it's before man.

00:11:18.100 Yeah, exactly.

00:11:18.780 Whatever proto-humans existed also existed in groups.

00:11:22.600 And I would say very likely even before proto-humans,

00:11:26.380 the organisms that eventually come to be human existed.

00:11:29.660 And we can actually frame this two different ways.

00:11:32.520 The first is the, you know, three million years ago,

00:11:35.840 whatever weird monkey-like creatures were social creatures.

00:11:38.240 And more importantly, you can also make the religious argument,

00:11:41.820 if you believe in creationism, man was created as a social entity instantly.

00:11:47.040 In the Garden of Eden.

00:11:47.500 Right, exactly.

00:11:48.340 Well, so this is actually probably the easiest way to understand the anthropology of liberalism.

00:11:52.700 They all kind of think of it as a Garden of Eden narrative.

00:11:55.240 Yeah.

00:11:55.360 I mean, Locke, if you think of the state of nature of man roaming around with perfect freedom and equality,

00:12:00.280 it's essentially that nature provides.

00:12:02.280 Locke thought it didn't provide enough.

00:12:04.100 So therefore, we had to enter a state which would guarantee your private property rights.

00:12:09.100 Rousseau believed that Eden basically existed, even though he wasn't a Christian.

00:12:13.580 And the first time man conceived of, he picked up this rock and said, this is my rock.

00:12:19.060 It introduced a kind of contaminated element into the human psyche.

00:12:22.680 And so all of civilization was created to manage that envy and keep property unequal.

00:12:28.440 Many, many progressives and leftists, and they don't consider themselves liberals,

00:12:33.000 have this belief that man was better off in the wilds.

00:12:37.020 Yeah.

00:12:37.320 Because the system was created by evil to oppress and control.

00:12:40.620 Well, so Rousseau believes that civilization kind of happened to man.

00:12:46.360 So you've got Hobbes and Locke and various others who believe that man consciously came together.

00:12:50.920 But Rousseau believes that it was an evolutionary process where it kind of just started accumulating

00:12:55.060 without any kind of understanding.

00:12:57.080 And this is why the sort of modern progressive left, the sort of Rousseauian left.

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00:14:30.720 They believe man is essentially the victim of society.

00:14:33.820 Because that's Rousseau's framing.

00:14:36.700 Society happened to man.

00:14:38.320 He didn't actually choose it.

00:14:39.600 It just grew up around him and now he's trapped in an evil society. 0.97

00:14:43.100 Rousseau is terrible. 1.00

00:14:44.140 Oh yeah, he's awful. 0.87

00:14:44.760 But the point is like it frames modern social man as the victim of society, which isn't true, of course.

00:14:52.600 You know, it's the complete opposite, in fact.

00:14:54.780 We're the beneficiaries of society.

00:14:57.040 Have you seen the argument from the leftists where they post these memes?

00:15:00.160 Did you know that peasants in the medieval era had 100 days of vacation and only worked four hours a day?

00:15:07.140 And plum not true.

00:15:08.580 Yeah, obviously.

00:15:09.320 And absurd.

00:15:09.480 And they also didn't have antibiotics, air conditioning, and helicopters.

00:15:12.320 They act as if the peasants lived in a post-industrial society.

00:15:15.920 Like, there was in the 70s, there was a TV show where they took like a dozen people and were like,

00:15:22.580 right, you're going to live like someone in like, you know, 700 AD or something like that.

00:15:26.280 And all these people did is work.

00:15:27.980 You know, they've got to stitch their own clothes. 0.99

00:15:29.400 They've got to constantly look after the animals. 0.95

00:15:30.920 They're constantly cleaning.

00:15:31.760 They're constantly sewing.

00:15:32.680 They're constantly, you know, preparing food, whatever it is.

00:15:35.440 Everything takes a long time.

00:15:37.540 So there's no such thing as a holiday.

00:15:39.400 There's no such thing as time off.

00:15:40.680 You know, things need to be done, even if you're not just plowing the fields.

00:15:44.360 And so anyway.

00:15:45.200 But yeah, so this is the fundamental problem to liberalism is that it creates a mythology for itself, which is false, right?

00:15:52.980 It never happened.

00:15:53.960 It was never the case that man lived in this Garden of Eden state of nature.

00:15:58.800 But what the problem with mythologies, well, not a problem, but one of the functions of mythology is that it sets the values of the civilization.

00:16:05.480 It tells the civilization what is good.

00:16:07.680 And that's why liberalism is constantly harping on about freedom and equality.

00:16:11.680 These are the values of liberalism because they're set from the state of nature in the original position that man was supposed to be in.

00:16:17.000 Would you call Rousseau a product of liberalism?

00:16:20.080 He is one of the architects of liberalism.

00:16:22.300 Really?

00:16:22.660 Because I feel like he's far closer to a romantic.

00:16:26.280 Well, it doesn't mean he's not a liberal.

00:16:28.920 The romantics did come from...

00:16:30.180 Well, hold on a second.

00:16:31.180 How can you be...

00:16:32.040 So it's my understanding, and I'm just trying to understand.

00:16:36.000 It's my understanding that liberalism as a product of the enlightenment says that we can contact reality, that we can reason.

00:16:47.420 Romanticism rejects reason.

00:16:48.740 Romanticism says that you should go to your emotions, and that's a better way to understand the world.

00:16:55.360 Your reactions, your emotions, these are more real to people than reason, because even Nietzsche was saying that man's most fallible faculty is reason, because when you reason, you are, without a doubt, capable of being wrong because you don't have enough information, you don't have the capacity to reason properly or whatever.

00:17:17.900 So, from my understanding, Rousseau, as a romantic, and this is something, and this is the way I'm only talking about what I see it.

00:17:27.220 So, Rousseau, as a romantic, is far closer to what we see today on the social justice left than would be any other kind of enlightenment philosophy, because the left rejects the ability to...

00:17:44.640 They think that, you know, power comes from words as opposed to, you know, being able to reason and being able to argue from a place of, you know, charity.

00:17:52.600 So, Rousseau is 100% a liberal.

00:17:55.180 He begins with liberal priors.

00:17:57.020 He constructs his philosophy rationalistically.

00:17:59.320 He just has a different interpretation.

00:18:01.800 And I don't know what definition you're using for a romantic, but I would say he was more idealistic about what he thinks the state of nature would have been like.

00:18:10.540 It's, you know...

00:18:11.920 He wanted savages made to live in cities.

00:18:14.280 I understand that part, yeah.

00:18:15.440 But he thought the state of nature was a lot more kind than it actually would have been to mankind, right?

00:18:20.980 Hobbes would have been...

00:18:21.860 If man had lived in a state of nature, Hobbes was the one who was right on the money on this.

00:18:26.380 Or, what's the other guy's name?

00:18:28.300 Not Montesquieu.

00:18:29.260 There was another chap who basically came to the same...

00:18:31.420 A French chap who came to the same conclusion as Hobbes, where man would be flighty.

00:18:35.000 Every time he'd heard a stick snap in the woods, he'd just run away because he'd be afraid, right?

00:18:38.580 And it was very much with the Hobbesian, you know, his life would be nasty, brutish and short.

00:18:43.120 It would be violence, it would be death, it would be difficult.

00:18:45.660 Because that was what living on your own in a woodland would be like, right?

00:18:49.720 Rousseau, for some reason, thought man would just be wandering around plucking fruit off the trees and, you know, living in idle contemplation.

00:18:56.220 Everything was the gardener.

00:18:56.900 Sounds like every leftist.

00:18:58.360 Yeah, exactly. But they still begin from the same thought experiment, the same a priori assumption that this was how things were.

00:19:06.700 And since this must have been man in the pre-social state of nature, why did he come together into a society?

00:19:12.400 And what should that society look like from those presuppositions?

00:19:16.400 So, Rousseau is 100% illiberal.

00:19:18.140 If I can go off that a little bit.

00:19:19.760 So, I did actually study the Romantics because I was silly enough to take English at university.

00:19:23.740 It's important, though.

00:19:24.760 You know, it is, yes. We shouldn't have abandoned that field to Rousseauians, funnily enough. 0.96

00:19:29.540 The Romantics saw the epistemology of emotional intuition as the way to repeal what was getting in the way of man's authentic consciousness.

00:19:41.480 And so, if Rousseau starts with the same anthropology as Locke, that they were in the state of nature, he's just a bit more optimistic about it.

00:19:48.140 Then that means everything that's come after the state of nature is a deterioration from source.

00:19:53.320 And what he's seeking to do is have the state emulate the same conditions as the state of nature.

00:20:00.100 And so, he thinks that if we've grown up in the state and let's move this away from our original pre-civilizational existence, then reasoning based on those priors isn't going to get us anywhere.

00:20:10.120 It's just that emotions and intuitions are the more authentic apparatus for getting back to the same anthropology he shares with Locke.

00:20:16.940 And I think what you're identifying is, it sounds a lot like Marx.

00:20:20.400 It sounds a lot like force characters.

00:20:21.120 Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:21.700 Because Marx basically plagiarized Rousseau.

00:20:23.440 There's a reason why the final line of the Communist Manifesto, the workers have nothing to lose but their chains, apes the opening line of Rousseau, which is that man is born free and is everywhere in chains.

00:20:35.360 They share a lot of those similarities, and this is why, and this is something we'll get onto later, that's why the communists are always nipping at the heels of the liberals.

00:20:41.880 Because fundamentally, they share the same anthropology, that all underneath, we're fundamentally equal, we have the same fundamental natural rights, and it's civilization that is getting in the way of us realizing our egalitarian natures.

00:20:54.600 I agree, man is born free, but there's—

00:20:57.600 It's not.

00:20:57.900 But that's not true, man.

00:20:58.920 But, well, it just depends on what you mean by free.

00:21:01.820 And what I'm going to say is, when Marx says they have nothing to lose but their chains, what it means to be unchained is to be separated from society, the privileges, the benefits, and the responsibilities.

00:21:13.880 To be born free of those things also means to be in a downward state where you will likely succumb to death.

00:21:20.020 So, the way I tried to explain it, certainly outside of the confines of philosophical understanding and great writers, when I talk to my friends, because I'm like a teenager, I'm like, dude, why don't you go try living in the middle of the woods buck naked and see how you like it?

00:21:33.860 Like, be free.

00:21:34.960 Be free as you want to be.

00:21:36.420 No support, no help, no making your clothes, no plastics, no computers.

00:21:39.700 Bro, I don't want to walk outside barefoot half the time.

00:21:41.820 And so, what I would say to them, for a lot of my friends who are always complaining about something, I said, you need to understand that you live in this great privilege of society with roads, with protection, with police, all of these things.

00:21:55.180 Go in the middle of the woods buck naked.

00:21:56.620 You're at zero.

00:21:57.840 And without society, without family, without community, you are slowly going to die.

00:22:01.900 And actually, very quickly, I should say, slowly, but now imagine you're in the middle of the woods, completely buck naked, but you have a pointy stick.

00:22:10.380 That is a step up from being totally nothing.

00:22:13.500 To separate the workers from their chains is to say, go into the woods with absolutely nothing.

00:22:19.080 That's your freedom.

00:22:20.440 The chains are the social bonds that tie us together.

00:22:23.240 So, when Rousseau says man is born free, but everywhere isn't changed, what he's saying is man is an atomized individual who should be alone in the woods, but for some reason he's born into this civilization.

00:22:35.240 But in reality, that's just not the case.

00:22:37.080 You're born as the son of parents.

00:22:40.560 You're born in a country.

00:22:42.100 You're born in a community.

00:22:43.280 You are born to a social network.

00:22:45.800 You are not born free.

00:22:46.940 Nobody is born free.

00:22:47.900 And what good would freedom do to a baby anyway?

00:22:51.300 You know, it would be the freedom to literally starve or freeze to death, right?

00:22:54.280 In a day?

00:22:55.080 Not even a day.

00:22:56.140 Not even a day.

00:22:56.160 Just like Rousseau and Rousseau's own children.

00:22:57.860 Well, one quick point, too.

00:23:00.840 Don't babies die if they don't get touch?

00:23:03.040 Yeah.

00:23:03.200 Human contact.

00:23:04.020 This happened in Francesco's Romanian orphanages.

00:23:07.120 Loads of kids died of neglect, not because they weren't fed or had water, just because they had no adult contact.

00:23:11.880 And as a somewhat aside, I wonder what causes that.

00:23:16.240 I would surmise, perhaps, evolution.

00:23:18.500 Yeah, it's obviously some sort of evolutionary necessity.

00:23:21.920 But the point is, everything about liberalism's presuppositions about what it is to be a human are just wrong.

00:23:27.620 They're just wrong, you know?

00:23:29.280 I think it's interesting because we see one of the highest rates of mortality is just after retirement.

00:23:35.120 Babies that don't receive human contact also die.

00:23:37.520 Humans as social creatures.

00:23:39.520 I wonder if this is a component of evolution where if a society – if a person had aged to a point where they were no longer contributing, their survival would be a detriment to the remaining tribe who would have to do extra work to maintain something that is not doing anything in return.

00:23:54.980 And a baby, without touch, is also – it's like self-terminate, essentially.

00:24:01.260 This is a net negative.

00:24:02.480 There's no positive.

00:24:03.760 I wonder if that's an evolutionary thing about social constructs, our social connections.

00:24:07.500 Yeah, yeah.

00:24:07.820 It could well be.

00:24:08.760 But, you know, I don't know.

00:24:10.080 But the point being, though, the liberal assumptions about all of this was just incorrect.

00:24:14.800 Right.

00:24:15.020 Right.

00:24:15.140 Man is a deeply social creature and needs social contact.

00:24:19.180 And this – and we know this.

00:24:20.340 We know this because what's the second worst punishment you can inflict on someone?

00:24:24.380 Ostracism.

00:24:24.920 Solitary confining.

00:24:25.700 Solitary confining.

00:24:26.740 It is the worst thing you can do other than simply hanging them. 0.88

00:24:29.880 Right. 0.78

00:24:30.360 And we know this.

00:24:31.020 So we know that everything about liberalism being like, right, okay, well, actually, we used to live in the Garden of Eden and we used to be on our own and that's where things were perfect.

00:24:39.340 That's not correct.

00:24:40.440 And it's also not a desirable goal at all because this – and this is why the mythology of liberalism is the poison that is the problem, the constant liberation from contingency.

00:24:52.800 Everything you should have, you should have all the time, whenever you feel like it, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

00:24:58.620 That's actually terrible.

00:24:59.860 I agree.

00:25:00.480 And I would say the way you've explained not being born free, I would completely agree as well.

00:25:06.900 Right.

00:25:07.200 You are born into a country with laws and there are responsibilities to you and you're at a certain age, you then have responsibilities back.

00:25:15.720 Those chains of society have always been there.

00:25:18.040 Yeah.

00:25:18.440 Unless you were born in the middle of the woods and your mom ran away and then you got eaten by wolves. 0.92

00:25:24.440 I believe it was St. Augustine who said it's not that we're born free and equal, it's that we're born in urine and excrement.

00:25:30.160 In a sense, we're born inextricably contingent on everyone around us who is compelled to make sacrifices to take care of us.

00:25:37.380 This is why when you had Katie Faust on your show a while ago with my good friend Jeff Younger, she said,

00:25:42.140 Civilization is healthiest when everything is reoriented around caring for those who get the absolute least say into the position that they are born in. 0.67

00:25:50.400 Because they cannot consent to the parents that they choose.

00:25:53.980 They can't choose their parents.

00:25:55.580 Therefore, the parents must act as if they could have chosen and they would have chosen them.

00:26:00.540 I, maybe a simpler way, I suppose society grows great when it is built around caring for children.

00:26:08.000 Yeah.

00:26:08.980 And we are now here in the United States and to what degree in the UK or Europe, I'm not, you guys can answer that one, but we are, we are society for the elderly now.

00:26:18.760 Our government is run by the oldest for the oldest who refuse to give up power. 0.96

00:26:22.560 The advocacy is do not have children.

00:26:24.720 Children are bad. 1.00

00:26:25.440 Children should be aborted. 1.00

00:26:26.400 It is not, it is no longer a society being oriented around children. 0.99

00:26:29.680 And thus, it.

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00:27:27.320 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:27:32.940 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients that we really care about you.

00:27:40.500 We care about you.

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00:27:53.560 Care, care.

00:27:54.580 Did I mention that we care?

00:27:55.600 It's going to implode.

00:27:59.500 You know, you see, yeah, yeah, we're in exactly the same position.

00:28:02.820 And you see this most, right?

00:28:05.280 In, and this is Jack Posobiec's favorite thing, and he's totally right about this.

00:28:09.920 The fact that McDonald's is not a family restaurant anymore.

00:28:13.520 No, I'm not even joking.

00:28:14.440 I know.

00:28:14.860 The playground.

00:28:15.420 When you were a kid, right?

00:28:16.220 Yeah.

00:28:16.420 It would be very bright, very colorful, you know.

00:28:18.860 You put your shoes in the thing to go in the.

00:28:21.040 We had birthday parties in the downstairs basement, but.

00:28:23.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:23.980 You know, and you'd have like an outdoors bit with the slime and stuff like that.

00:28:26.900 And now it looks just like, it looks some sort of dystopian black monoliths.

00:28:31.380 Brutalist.

00:28:31.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:32.280 Burger facility.

00:28:33.140 Yeah, exactly. 0.99

00:28:33.680 Come and get your burger, you useless eater number 3,1272, you know. 0.98

00:28:38.320 It's like, it's a. 0.99

00:28:40.500 Pizza Hut.

00:28:41.080 Yeah, exactly.

00:28:42.180 You know, Jack talks about Pizza Hut nationalism.

00:28:45.260 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:28:45.700 That's completely correct.

00:28:46.340 I'm completely on it.

00:28:47.300 I'm completely on it.

00:28:47.920 The civilization used to be focused around families with children.

00:28:51.620 Yes.

00:28:52.140 That's what it used to be focused around.

00:28:53.340 And now it's focused around single adults who have got just, you know, wage jobs, who

00:28:58.940 hate their lives, who just want to get their burger just before they kill themselves.

00:29:02.380 Not just that.

00:29:02.960 There's a proliferation.

00:29:04.260 This is something I've noticed particularly about America of sort of homeless, vagrant drug 0.79

00:29:07.760 addicts.

00:29:08.180 I wrote about this recently for the European conservatives.

00:29:10.760 They are the last man of liberalism.

00:29:12.780 I think this is why you're seeing a narco tyranny on American streets. 1.00

00:29:15.860 It's because, as you said, if you have an on-demand desire all the time, that is the true and

00:29:21.700 authentic expression of your individual freedom.

00:29:23.700 And anyone asserting a standard, even if it's loving concern for the addiction you have, is

00:29:29.300 an incursion on that freedom.

00:29:30.420 So what you need is like a TSA style government that oversees all relationships and ensures

00:29:36.740 that at no point are you impinged upon by someone else's expectations.

00:29:42.340 So the government, and this is how it mutates from Locke to Rousseau, from limited government

00:29:46.340 as the founders intended to a totalitarian government.

00:29:49.480 It's that on the premise that we are born free and equal, and that our very own relationships

00:29:53.940 and our own parents and their expectations are incursions on our freedom, the government

00:29:59.220 has to step in to ensure that no interaction ever stops that.

00:30:02.740 And so you sleeping on the street or in the doorway of a CVS shooting up heroin and ODing

00:30:07.180 and no one caring for you is actually the vision of your total freedom.

00:30:10.880 Yeah.

00:30:11.120 There's no one more free than that, to indulge the desires of their own will.

00:30:15.400 To their death. 0.99

00:30:16.220 To their death.

00:30:16.740 And it's, it's from, from a non-liberal perspective, it's complete evil, but it's not a coincidence

00:30:22.140 that in every place that the Democrats end up running, they end up going, well, we need

00:30:26.400 to provide those people with needles.

00:30:28.000 And the Taliban walk in and then they withdraw it.

00:30:30.540 But that, that makes the Taliban in the right on this issue.

00:30:33.480 No, responsible adults who care about the people around them should step in and say, no,

00:30:38.040 we're taking the drugs away.

00:30:38.840 You don't need this.

00:30:39.420 You need rehab.

00:30:40.320 You know, you need to get your life back on track.

00:30:41.900 You know, that, that's the non-liberal perspective.

00:30:44.300 I, I, you know, this is an interesting argument in, uh, that relates to, uh, gender dysphoria.

00:30:50.900 Matt Walsh, uh, his position has been there, there should be no sex change surgery for anyone.

00:30:57.420 Doesn't matter how old you are.

00:30:58.340 Yes.

00:30:58.500 And many of the classical liberals, the middle of the road, disaffected liberal types who

00:31:03.380 have now said, I'm voting for Trump, take the position.

00:31:05.720 Well, no, no, no.

00:31:06.620 If you're an adult, you can choose to do what you want to do.

00:31:09.220 And I think that makes an interesting argument.

00:31:11.520 Uh, and I've asked people this question as well.

00:31:13.740 I mean, if someone went to a doctor and said, I'm body dysmorphic, I want my hand removed.

00:31:17.640 Would you remove it?

00:31:18.940 And everyone says no.

00:31:20.240 I said, okay, then, well, then what's the moral difference between someone's reproductive

00:31:23.360 organs and their hand? 0.78

00:31:24.960 Should we let an anorexic get liposuction?

00:31:27.020 Or should we say, no, you're deluded and we should save your life and prevent you from

00:31:31.560 making this irreversible decision?

00:31:32.880 Well, well, simply no.

00:31:34.680 Yes.

00:31:35.060 You should not say you're deluded.

00:31:36.860 We have to say, you get my point. 1.00

00:31:39.040 Well, you have a mental disorder. 1.00

00:31:41.480 You have a miscalibrated perception about yourself. 1.00

00:31:44.660 And this is quite a deeply personal issue to me because I've had friends that have fallen

00:31:49.280 afoul of this and are now sterile and fertile and have complications.

00:31:52.860 And they themselves said, okay, I was above the age of 18 at the time, but was I a compus

00:31:58.800 mentis?

00:31:59.380 No.

00:32:00.060 This is really interesting as it pertains to the idea of chains of society.

00:32:03.980 What are the chains of society?

00:32:05.660 When you are born, you will be fed.

00:32:07.300 You'll be taken care of either your parents must do it.

00:32:10.180 We have an apparatus of the state to try and step in when that is not the case.

00:32:14.720 But you look at everything that is coming about through Democrats, the left.

00:32:20.020 I'm sure it's the same in Europe.

00:32:21.620 It is breaking the chains quite literally to the point where children are being aborted

00:32:26.300 and killed and treated as things.

00:32:28.800 Prominent leftist YouTubers.

00:32:30.620 I asked Vosh, when does a baby become a human?

00:32:34.200 He said, some point after birth.

00:32:35.960 It is quite literally removing the humanity from a person and taking away, to what end?

00:32:42.840 That's all liberalism can do, right?

00:32:44.680 Liberalism is the breaker of chains, the breaker of these relationships between people.

00:32:49.220 I mean, this is so contingent in its DNA that all it has is a negative vision for when essentially

00:32:56.480 you will be completely on your own.

00:32:58.480 It can't build anything.

00:32:59.940 This is really fascinating.

00:33:02.680 The way Marx describes chains, the way the left describes chains, is they want you to

00:33:06.740 imagine a slave master having you chained as opposed to chains holding up a bridge.

00:33:13.340 Yeah.

00:33:13.700 Yeah, yeah.

00:33:14.080 That's a great analogy, actually.

00:33:16.440 Because it's, I mean, they use chains, but like you say, chains have got a constructive

00:33:20.820 function as well, right?

00:33:23.140 They literally lift things into place.

00:33:28.180 And all of the moral good in society is really found in our relationships, right?

00:33:32.660 I mean, what does being a moral person mean when you're not interacting with other people?

00:33:36.980 The coma test is a useful way of saying that, okay, so you can't commit rape, theft, assault,

00:33:43.060 or murder if you're in a coma.

00:33:44.960 Brilliant.

00:33:45.240 But does that make you a moral person?

00:33:46.620 No, it makes you neutral.

00:33:47.740 It takes proactive, virtuous action to be considered moral.

00:33:50.320 And you can only do that if there's another interlocutor.

00:33:52.260 Yeah.

00:33:52.560 I mean, if you were stranded on a desert island, being a good or bad person just doesn't make

00:33:57.060 sense.

00:33:57.820 There's no one to be good or bad towards, right?

00:34:00.040 Yeah.

00:34:00.140 So this is the problem with the social contract society.

00:34:03.840 Who was it that described it as a society of rational devils?

00:34:07.780 Can you remember?

00:34:08.520 I can't remember.

00:34:09.160 It might have been C.S. Lewis, but I'm not sure.

00:34:10.720 No, no, no.

00:34:11.200 I think it was...

00:34:12.100 I thought it was a Screwtape Lubs's quote.

00:34:14.000 I think it was like Voltaire or something.

00:34:15.980 But one of the liberal thinkers said, look, what we're going to do is we're going to create...

00:34:20.220 Kant. 0.76

00:34:20.660 Oh, it was Kant.

00:34:21.300 Ah.

00:34:21.520 Right.

00:34:22.100 So Kant, again, is a great example of this, where he's trying to create a framework that

00:34:28.980 is a rational framework that any rational being should be able to consent to.

00:34:33.380 So, okay, I've got a series of rights, a series of restrictions on myself and obligations

00:34:38.200 to the state.

00:34:38.640 And therefore, I could have a society of rational devils who could all live peaceably because

00:34:45.040 of the social contract.

00:34:46.340 And this...

00:34:46.680 I mean, you...

00:34:47.400 The United States is a social contract society, right?

00:34:49.820 So theoretically, you should have a society that could function from, you know, a society

00:34:54.000 of rational devils.

00:34:54.800 But I actually don't want to live in a society of devils, actually.

00:34:57.440 I agree.

00:34:57.900 You know, why would you want that?

00:34:58.980 You know, so what is the goal here?

00:35:00.760 Why do we want to make devils someone we can live alongside?

00:35:04.200 Can't I live alongside good and virtuous people?

00:35:06.000 And this is why the French Revolution failed and the American Revolution succeeded.

00:35:09.900 One of many reasons is because actually the American constitution, the social contract

00:35:13.920 is subordinate to the fact that you were formulated from a time, a place, a particular people and

00:35:18.340 a faith.

00:35:18.940 And all of the underlying assumptions of the constitution were baked in by the authors.

00:35:23.540 But as the demographics changes, religion wanes, you're no longer living by these thick 1.00

00:35:29.620 bonds of sentiment and Christian faith.

00:35:31.280 You're living up and according to the letter of the law.

00:35:33.300 And if they don't believe in the original sentiment that wrote the law, then it just

00:35:35.860 becomes, how do we quickly circumvent this and establish an elite class that can apply

00:35:40.240 the law selectively?

00:35:41.420 There's like 800 layers to go through right now that I'll try to get as quickly as I

00:35:44.940 can.

00:35:45.300 Are you familiar with cut flower politics coined by Dennis Prager?

00:35:48.780 No, I'm not.

00:35:49.520 He says, you have this beautiful flower and you cut it from its base and hold it in the

00:35:53.160 air and everyone can see how beautiful it is.

00:35:54.900 But it has been cut from its root and it will die.

00:35:57.380 Yeah.

00:35:57.540 And that's what's happening to us now.

00:35:59.540 And so I one day decided to read about the Bill of Rights, why the constitution contains

00:36:06.860 them.

00:36:07.220 And do you, and you should know this, do you know why we have the fourth, fifth, sixth

00:36:12.440 amendments and what, and what those are to the Bill of Rights?

00:36:15.700 No, no.

00:36:17.160 No, no.

00:36:17.800 It's law for certain seizures, isn't it?

00:36:19.020 Right to a speedy trial, right to confront your accuser, things like that.

00:36:21.420 But these are all just from English law.

00:36:22.980 But do you know what the actual, the root idea from the founding fathers where they

00:36:28.700 said that should be enshrined was?

00:36:30.660 It's actually really simple and you know, Blackstone's formulation.

00:36:34.440 Oh, I mentioned this last night, yes.

00:36:35.660 And Benjamin Franklin said, it is better that 100 guilty persons escape than one innocent

00:36:40.500 person suffer.

00:36:41.300 Sure.

00:36:41.860 And the reason was, we need these enshrined in the constitution to guarantee the rights

00:36:47.580 because we know government can run a file.

00:36:49.720 Well, we've witnessed this.

00:36:50.480 The reason these rights must be protected is that a society that, a citizen who believes

00:36:57.720 that even if he is a good person who abides by the rules of society and law, if they believe

00:37:02.860 they will be improperly prosecuted, imprisoned, or punished, they have no incentive to be a

00:37:07.560 good person.

00:37:08.000 In fact, quite the opposite.

00:37:09.320 They will lie, cheat, and steal to protect themselves from a corrupt system.

00:37:12.280 Therefore, the system must always persevere to protect the innocent so that they always

00:37:18.120 try to be their best selves.

00:37:19.720 And of course, Blackstone's formulation, Sodom and Gomorrah, rooted in the Bible.

00:37:24.360 The United States' foundation of its constitution, its governance, its moral worldview was rooted

00:37:29.180 in Christianity.

00:37:30.300 And an English interpretation of that Christianity.

00:37:31.920 Absolutely.

00:37:32.540 Because all of these things that you're saying are just earlier precedents from English law,

00:37:36.360 like habeas corpus and various things.

00:37:37.620 Absolutely.

00:37:38.460 And our attempts to better understand it and make sure, and with the constitution, be like-

00:37:44.140 Properly enshrine it.

00:37:45.000 Right.

00:37:45.260 We're going to enshrine this as best so we really understand.

00:37:47.820 Which brings me back to the cut flower politics and Bill Maher.

00:37:51.060 Bill Maher's a liberal.

00:37:52.340 Yes.

00:37:52.880 Bill Maher says, why can't I smoke pot and sleep around?

00:37:56.860 What's the problem?

00:37:57.760 See, someone like Bill Maher is that flower.

00:38:01.560 Yeah.

00:38:01.800 It looks beautiful.

00:38:03.120 It expresses these ideas, but it has no connection to what actually brought it to that point.

00:38:08.400 A man who says he's an atheist, and more power to him, it's fine. 0.98

00:38:12.320 Live how you want to live, I guess.

00:38:13.720 But my point is, with that ideology, what that results in is adjunct chaos and the dissolution

00:38:20.140 of social order.

00:38:22.160 So this man, Bill Maher, who will go on TV and say, but I believe in free speech, but

00:38:26.760 I believe in these things.

00:38:28.200 He doesn't understand that the root ideology for which he was raised in is Christian moral

00:38:33.500 structure.

00:38:34.280 On that point, he went and did an interview with our friends at Trigonometry, and he was

00:38:40.540 celebrating the fact that London is now a minority English.

00:38:44.440 And what he doesn't understand, and this is an outgrowth of liberal philosophy as well,

00:38:47.860 is that you can't have civilization in amber.

00:38:51.700 You can't have values and principles dislocated from the peoples that formulated them, because

00:38:55.820 they are the only ones who have enshrined those values in their hearts and minds.

00:38:58.840 As De Maestra said, a constitution is just the codification of what the authors thought,

00:39:04.460 and you can't make people live according to those things if they don't believe what

00:39:07.320 was originally there.

00:39:08.380 And so all these principles that he advocates for, free speech and license to not be judged

00:39:13.200 for being a pot-smoking degenerate, suddenly if you import millions of Islamic followers, 1.00

00:39:19.540 Muslims, into Britain, those values go away. 1.00

00:39:22.920 The constitution has changed.

00:39:23.880 And so Bill Maher may well appeal to this, but under the rubric of liberalism, he is doing

00:39:29.500 what Renaud Camus called the second career of Adolf Hitler.

00:39:31.940 And that is, in the name of making a nation after the Second World War prove its anti-racist

00:39:37.300 credentials and be open and free and tolerant to prevent the guard towers of Auschwitz from

00:39:40.680 being reconstructed, he's actually imported the values of another country who doesn't

00:39:44.540 believe in this and has the exact same thing happen all over again.

00:39:48.180 If I can overly simplify that into a meme millennials would understand, it's Sideshow Bob stepping on

00:39:54.620 the rake and smacking himself in the face over and over again and going...

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00:40:55.980 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:41:01.000 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

00:41:05.620 our clients that we really care about you.

00:41:08.140 We care about you.

00:41:09.340 We care about you.

00:41:10.260 Home and auto insurance personalized to your needs.

00:41:13.360 Weird, I don't remember saying that part.

00:41:16.300 Visit Desjardins.com slash care and get insurance that's really big on care.

00:41:21.920 Did I mention that we care?

00:41:23.360 There are a couple of points there that I want to just pick up on as well.

00:41:29.700 So first on, the rational devils thing.

00:41:32.320 What I hate about this kind of view is the prejudice against irrationality and the privileging of

00:41:40.500 rationality.

00:41:41.160 I'm sure you've all read Jonathan Haidt who pointed out, well, hang on a second, you're

00:41:45.220 actually not very rational for very much of your day.

00:41:47.580 What's the time you're not?

00:41:48.180 There we go.

00:41:48.800 Perfect.

00:41:49.160 I pulled up the moral foundations a while ago.

00:41:50.540 Perfect.

00:41:51.040 Jonathan Haidt has proven, look, most of what you do is actually quite irrational, quite

00:41:55.360 habitual.

00:41:56.320 And it's only when you have to stop and think and deliberate very, very carefully that you

00:42:02.340 become rational for a small period of time.

00:42:04.640 So a society of rational devils would have to be rational quite a lot of the time.

00:42:08.100 And so this social contract only holds until some guy who might not be terribly intelligent

00:42:13.180 decides, you know what?

00:42:14.160 I don't care. 0.98

00:42:15.460 I'm not going to be rational and I'm going to just attack that Asian grandma or something 1.00

00:42:19.960 because I'm sick of these Asians in my neighborhood or something like that. 1.00

00:42:22.460 So the social contract breaks down like that instantly because they've got no love for 0.74

00:42:27.600 one another.

00:42:28.200 Love is what prevents that from happening, right?

00:42:30.460 So that's the problem with the society of rational devils.

00:42:33.240 Well, it only holds while they're 100% rational.

00:42:35.500 And well, there are lots of people who aren't 100% rational any of the time.

00:42:39.840 And there was a second thing that the immigration thing is particularly interesting, right?

00:42:44.460 Because most cultures would instinctively say, well, no, we're not going to bring in millions

00:42:50.180 of people from a foreign culture.

00:42:51.820 That's mad because that would attack our own culture, the integrity of our culture, right?

00:42:56.720 Most normal cultures would think that.

00:42:58.120 But the liberals, the interesting thing about pre-social man is what you do is you create

00:43:03.360 a kind of universal man, a kind of universal blank slate, because they point out rightly

00:43:08.300 so that a lot of the way that we are is formed by the society in which we live, like your

00:43:14.940 accents, the things you believe, the habits you have, the food you like to eat, the clothes

00:43:19.740 you wear, the things you watch, the way that you think we should interact with other people.

00:43:23.560 All of these things are socially conditioned into us.

00:43:26.700 And so if you took someone from one society, a baby from one society, raise them in another 0.99

00:43:31.000 society, they would have the social conditioning of that other society.

00:43:34.680 But the problem is no person is ever raised outside of a society.

00:43:38.120 So there's never a time where there is a universal blank slate man who can be presented

00:43:43.320 as, oh, here we go.

00:43:44.780 We're all just the same, really.

00:43:45.940 So these people have got their own value system.

00:43:48.280 They've got their own norms.

00:43:49.200 They've got their own habits.

00:43:49.820 They've got their own, what I think, really backwards belief around, you know, inter-gender 1.00

00:43:55.620 behaviors and things like that.

00:43:57.020 And we're just bringing them in because we've assumed underneath all of that, they're just

00:44:01.640 like us.

00:44:02.220 And it's like, well, hey, there's no getting underneath all of that.

00:44:04.900 That is what they are authentically to the core, because that's all they know of reality.

00:44:09.600 And they're not like us.

00:44:10.860 Real quick, because the first point you made, sorry, have you guys seen the meme about conditional

00:44:19.080 hypotheticals?

00:44:20.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:21.020 So there's a 4chan post from someone who said that they were a psychology major or something

00:44:26.720 that affected it, experiments.

00:44:28.120 And they said that low IQ people could not understand conditional hypotheticals.

00:44:32.500 They would ask a question, how would you have felt if you did not eat breakfast yesterday?

00:44:37.600 Tim, I did eat breakfast.

00:44:38.780 Exactly. 0.96

00:44:39.160 And so now it's become a meme on X, where when someone says something dumb, you respond 0.86

00:44:44.600 with, how would you have felt if you didn't have breakfast yesterday? 0.97

00:44:48.080 Low IQ people say, but I did.

00:44:50.900 Or they'd say, but I didn't.

00:44:52.520 And you're like, no, no, no, no, but okay, so hypothetically, and they can't comprehend.

00:44:56.340 In that post, it's actually a bit more elaborate.

00:44:59.500 The individual goes on to say that they went to prisons, and they spoke with violent offenders

00:45:04.740 who had murdered, raped, and robbed, and things like this, maimed.

00:45:09.160 And they asked them, how do you think the mother of the man you murdered felt when she found

00:45:15.280 out you killed her son?

00:45:16.560 And they go, huh?

00:45:18.080 I have a clip of this.

00:45:19.280 I don't know.

00:45:20.100 Because Ross Kemp went to South Africa and asked a bunch of rapists, admitted rapists,

00:45:24.920 how do you feel about this?

00:45:26.640 Do you not feel bad about this?

00:45:28.460 And they kept saying, yeah, well, we might get the girl pregnant, so it might be a worry.

00:45:31.420 And he went, no, no, no, no.

00:45:32.080 Are you not concerned about the victim?

00:45:34.080 I think I've seen this.

00:45:34.860 They might scream, or they might give us AIDS. 0.99

00:45:36.780 And he was like, no, no, she's not traumatized.

00:45:38.720 They're just blank expressions.

00:45:39.720 They don't have the ability to understand that other people experience life.

00:45:45.280 It's solipsism.

00:45:46.100 Right.

00:45:46.640 Empathy requires a certain level of intelligence.

00:45:48.960 Yes.

00:45:49.160 But the funny thing is, like, it is regressive solipsism.

00:45:52.160 It is not someone who has sat down and had a conversation on a philosophy and then come

00:45:58.660 to the conclusion, nihilism and solipsism, therefore I'll do what I please.

00:46:02.440 It's people who can't even create, understand, or get anywhere near that idea.

00:46:07.160 The fundamental assumption that all people are equal is probably the worst thing that,

00:46:14.060 or that people all experience the world, not equal, that all people experience the world

00:46:20.200 in the same way.

00:46:21.580 100%.

00:46:22.100 Is absolutely wrong.

00:46:23.600 And it's incredibly detrimental to any society that adopts that as the normal state of being.

00:46:32.420 And it's only the modern era, the liberal era, where anyone thinks that.

00:46:36.420 In every sort of pre-modern society, they understand that, no, you come from a tribe,

00:46:41.240 another tribe is, you know, a separate people to you, and they will behave differently.

00:46:46.300 And this is, this is the, that was the fundamental assumption that got us into, that got the United

00:46:51.540 States and England into the Iraq war.

00:46:54.380 Once we go in, they will want to be like us.

00:46:57.620 They'll want freedom and liberation and democracy.

00:46:58.580 Yeah.

00:46:58.940 It's like, are you mad?

00:47:00.060 And that, that assumption cost millions of lives.

00:47:02.120 Yeah.

00:47:02.380 And it changed, you know, it changed the Middle East and caused terrible, terrible repercussions 0.98

00:47:07.200 throughout the whole, the whole world.

00:47:09.220 And as the rise of ISIS, unbelievable horrors.

00:47:12.080 And as much as people will say that, oh, well, you know, it was, it was George Bush or whatever.

00:47:18.220 It's like, no, that is, it wasn't George Bush.

00:47:21.080 And it wasn't actually the argument that they might have nuclear material and stuff like that.

00:47:26.320 That was the, yeah, exactly.

00:47:27.880 That was the argument on the face.

00:47:29.560 But the real reason that people accepted it was, well, Americans accepted it, was we'll go

00:47:35.460 in and they'll be better off once they're, once they take Saddam out of power because they 0.92

00:47:40.400 want to be free like us.

00:47:42.260 And that is wrong.

00:47:43.760 And as long as, as long as our society keeps behaving as if that's true, which it does

00:47:49.860 currently, there has been no change in the minds of the people that were, that, that,

00:47:55.220 or, you know, that, that, uh, that organized the Iraq war.

00:47:58.020 In fact, a good portion of them are currently in the, in the administration now.

00:48:02.940 And as long as that intuition has not changed, the mistakes will keep repeating.

00:48:06.780 100%.

00:48:07.200 And this is, in my opinion, most well manifested in the migrant crisis in Britain, where you've

00:48:12.920 got 90% of young men in their twenties and early thirties who are essentially adventuring.

00:48:18.880 They're obviously adventurers and they're obviously breaking into Britain because they

00:48:22.120 know they're going to get free money.

00:48:23.460 Right.

00:48:23.540 And it's like, okay, look, this isn't anything new.

00:48:25.520 Young men have always gone on adventures.

00:48:27.580 You know, they've always joined groups of people who go off for adventuring to get whatever

00:48:30.740 plunder they can get.

00:48:31.560 On social media, they advertise our women on nights out in states of drunkenness as

00:48:36.860 the spoils of war.

00:48:38.180 Yeah.

00:48:38.840 I'm not even joking.

00:48:39.620 It's all over TikTok, right?

00:48:40.580 It's all over TikTok.

00:48:41.420 And it's like, look, and, but the liberals are like, oh no, they just, they're just coming

00:48:44.980 here because they're victims of whatever.

00:48:46.720 And they just want to be like us.

00:48:48.100 It's like, no, they're coming here to exploit us.

00:48:49.560 And they know that.

00:48:50.120 And we know that.

00:48:50.840 And yet for some reason, this is still being allowed to happen.

00:48:52.780 And again, to this point, this is an argument that Sam Harris, regardless of your opinion

00:48:56.640 of him, this is the argument that he makes about, um, you know, about Islam and he gets

00:49:01.780 tons of hell for it.

00:49:03.120 He's right.

00:49:03.700 But if you read, if you read the beak, which I've mentioned before, they, they, that was

00:49:08.560 their magazine where they outlined, they had a whole article where they outlined exactly

00:49:13.800 what they thought.

00:49:14.480 And, and at the time, Barack Obama was making the argument, no, it's economic.

00:49:19.240 They don't really believe that they don't. 1.00

00:49:21.120 And it's like, no, you're a fool. 1.00

00:49:23.540 They absolutely believe that they absolutely do want to kill people that disagree with 0.99

00:49:29.200 them because their religion says, and it's been this way for the entirety of the, of,

00:49:35.000 of, for the entirety of the Islamic history.

00:49:37.460 That is the way that they think.

00:49:39.220 And so they're sure.

00:49:40.660 There are definitely peaceful Muslims.

00:49:42.160 There are, there are, there are liberalized Muslims that can, can, could come to Western

00:49:45.920 countries and live perfectly normal lives with, with everybody.

00:49:48.940 And they go to, you know, go to the park and they'll, you know, have, have cookouts with

00:49:52.640 their neighbors and it'll be wonderful and everybody be happy.

00:49:54.660 But that doesn't mean that there isn't a portion of, of the people that have that theology

00:49:58.980 that believe that they are better, that believe that it is the right thing to do to enslave

00:50:04.240 people that disagree.

00:50:06.680 It's, it's not a coincidence that terrorism follows Islam, right? 1.00

00:50:10.520 It's not a coincidence.

00:50:11.440 It comes from the belief system.

00:50:13.360 But the thing is, I think this is a good, good point to go on to communism now, right?

00:50:16.600 Because it's not a coincidence that communism dogs liberalism, right?

00:50:20.580 It's not a coincidence that every liberal society has a communist fringe that is pushing for

00:50:24.940 more and more and more.

00:50:26.080 And it's because the communists fundamentally agree with the liberal mythology.

00:50:31.280 At no point do the communists ever say, oh no, that's not how things were.

00:50:34.980 They say, yes, the state of nature sounds like a great idea.

00:50:37.740 So why do we have private property?

00:50:39.780 Because the liberals know they expressly left the state of nature to protect private property.

00:50:46.160 And the communists rightly, and they are correct on this, identify private property as the 0.93

00:50:51.840 source of inequality, which it is.

00:50:54.540 And so the communists say, well, look, to get back to the state of nature, we have to

00:50:58.280 get rid of the property.

00:50:59.320 And the liberal actually has to kind of admit that they're correct on that.

00:51:03.720 There are a few contemporary conflicts which started to change my view on free speech and

00:51:10.200 liberalism, classical liberalism.

00:51:12.760 So we, for a long time, and right alongside me, Carl, we were defending people who opposed

00:51:21.000 free speech on social media when they were being banned.

00:51:23.500 They would say awful things.

00:51:25.360 They would call for Carl to be banned.

00:51:26.740 They got Carl banned.

00:51:27.940 And then when they got banned, we would all jump up and say, no, no, we are moral people

00:51:32.860 who believe in free speech.

00:51:33.860 So they must be unbanned.

00:51:35.520 We effectively were handing them the stones which they would cast in our direction.

00:51:39.580 And so then I had a change of mind about it.

00:51:43.400 I said, rights for those who believe in rights.

00:51:46.240 And so that is, if you believe no one should have free speech, then I say, I agree.

00:51:53.440 And if-

00:51:53.980 Sensor that man.

00:51:55.400 Absolutely.

00:51:56.260 Then when the government comes to shut you down, I will say, congratulations on getting

00:52:00.820 exactly what you asked for.

00:52:01.980 And then if anyone else of any ideology, someone could come and tell me they're a communist,

00:52:07.280 but free speech must be maintained always, no matter what.

00:52:11.420 And the communist states that have suppressed free speech were wrong.

00:52:14.180 I'll say, defend that man's speech.

00:52:15.640 The, these ideas are, are, are like free speech and stuff like that.

00:52:19.620 They, they, they're internally working.

00:52:21.080 They only work in a closed system.

00:52:22.660 You can't-

00:52:23.200 Tribal, not universal.

00:52:23.880 Yeah.

00:52:24.040 You can't have a, I've mentioned this problem with liberalism before.

00:52:28.380 You can't have an authoritarian philosophy come into a liberal philosophy and say, well,

00:52:35.180 we're going to live under liberal principles until we have the ability to force you.

00:52:40.400 And so liberalism, if it, if liberalism, and this is not particular to the liberalism that

00:52:44.780 we're talking about, but if, if our society as a, and whatever name you want to call it

00:52:49.580 is going to survive, it has to have the ability to exclude and it has to have the ability to

00:52:54.680 use force to defend its principles.

00:52:57.060 Let me, let me, I want to elaborate on, on my point.

00:53:00.700 I was thinking about free speech and they say speech is the most important thing.

00:53:04.080 I mean, if you can't express your ideas, how can you maintain your principles, your

00:53:06.760 values, your culture, et cetera.

00:53:07.920 And I was thinking about how they release these criminals in, in various cities and

00:53:11.200 states and countries.

00:53:12.720 A criminal will go and mercilessly beat a person.

00:53:15.300 We say, okay, we want to apply force against this person, which is to detain them, to lock

00:53:19.400 them in a box.

00:53:20.340 The liberals then say, no, no, that's unfair.

00:53:22.280 Release.

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00:54:20.980 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

00:54:25.400 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell our clients

00:54:30.640 that we really care about you.

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00:54:46.340 Did I mention that we care?

00:54:49.740 You have someone who is violating the social contract in beating you, but you will not

00:54:56.880 uphold the contract against them.

00:54:58.780 And so I look at that as plainly obvious to the average person.

00:55:01.980 Hey, physical violence is wrong.

00:55:03.360 The question then becomes, why did we release that person from jail?

00:55:06.620 And then I thought about it.

00:55:07.700 What's the difference with free speech?

00:55:09.660 Speech is an important thing.

00:55:11.620 We need to be able to express our ideas without censorship.

00:55:13.820 But if an individual is going around shutting people down so they cannot speak, for us to

00:55:18.360 defend their free speech would be akin to releasing a violent criminal from jail because

00:55:22.420 jail is wrong.

00:55:23.160 If they are inviolate, so, you know, that's what they think, too.

00:55:27.700 They think jail is wrong as well.

00:55:28.820 I know.

00:55:29.400 Yeah, because remember, the Rousseauian paradigm has the person as the victim of society.

00:55:34.540 And so the person who, and this is why, this is why they're always on the side of criminals,

00:55:38.420 right?

00:55:38.800 Because if you're hardworking, you pay your taxes, you obey the law, you get on with your

00:55:43.660 neighbors, then you are the beneficiary of an unjust system because the system does produce

00:55:49.380 criminals, right?

00:55:50.240 A system that we didn't choose, that grew up around us, that you are privileged by, you

00:55:55.620 are actually the oppressor of the criminal because the criminal didn't choose to live

00:56:00.340 in society and he can't live by the rules.

00:56:03.000 He can't live by the laws.

00:56:04.260 And so when the society is clubbing him down and persecuting him, that's unjust as far

00:56:08.840 as the very left-wing liberal is concerned.

00:56:11.400 When we have Neuralink and pods, these people can choose to be truly free.

00:56:15.480 Yeah, they can.

00:56:16.140 Well, actually, only about 95%.

00:56:17.820 Someone's still got to charge the pod.

00:56:19.960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:56:20.580 But then they can go live in their fake GTA, whatever reality.

00:56:23.280 I tell you what, just on a moral level, I'm just so anti-liberal morality at this point.

00:56:28.400 I think people should get what they deserve.

00:56:30.740 You know, if you're some guy and you punch an Asian grandma on the street or something, 0.89

00:56:34.880 oh no, there's a moral debt here, right?

00:56:37.240 You owe a moral debt of pain to society. 0.97

00:56:40.000 You should be flogged. 0.99

00:56:41.460 You should be flogged. 0.97

00:56:42.480 I know, you see, the liberal sentiments. 0.95

00:56:45.260 Well, I don't know about that.

00:56:45.980 No, no, I'm totally on it.

00:56:47.120 No, no, I think that's too emotional.

00:56:50.800 And I think you need a rigid, logical structure that commands and controls.

00:56:54.960 What's wrong with expressing the catharsis of watching the criminal get his just comeuppance?

00:57:01.320 It depends, right?

00:57:02.360 And so I oppose the death penalty.

00:57:04.100 However, I also agree that there are circumstances a person could engage in where they have forfeit their right to life.

00:57:09.380 That is, if a criminal pulls a gun on an old Asian woman, if you are in a circumstance where you must defend the life of another person,

00:57:18.580 the action taken by the criminal perpetrator that puts other people at risk,

00:57:22.680 they have forfeited their right to continue living.

00:57:26.240 And I don't want them to die.

00:57:28.460 I want to avoid that in all circumstances.

00:57:30.360 That being said, it's not that I'm saying they deserve it.

00:57:33.420 I'm saying we must take the action necessary to save lives.

00:57:37.020 See, I'm off the utilitarian sort of perspective on this one.

00:57:41.240 It's not that you're wrong, obviously, right?

00:57:42.900 In a very rational way, that is correct.

00:57:45.080 But I think there is a sentimental moral burden that is incurred by the criminal

00:57:49.720 when they inflict unjustified horror on someone else.

00:57:53.760 And I agree, and the challenge I think that I come to with that is

00:57:57.620 we need to make sure that the people that function within our society know

00:58:02.240 we will do everything in our power to protect the innocent

00:58:04.560 and those who abide by our values, lest they decide one day.

00:58:09.100 My friend just got the crap beaten out of them because they were wrong. 0.77

00:58:12.400 And if that's what's going to happen to me, I better be sneaky. 0.66

00:58:15.240 We want people to be honest.

00:58:16.420 But you need to make the cost really high.

00:58:17.380 I mean, the example I would always use in the UK is the Lee Rigby murderers.

00:58:21.520 There was a Royal Army drummer who was stabbed, decapitated, brutalized in broad daylight.

00:58:29.720 In the middle of the street.

00:58:30.560 That was on video, wasn't it?

00:58:31.620 Yes.

00:58:31.900 I remember that.

00:58:32.600 His two killers are now in Belmarsh prison, and as Islamists, 0.96

00:58:35.980 are at liberty on the taxpayer's dime to sit in their cells and worship all day

00:58:40.840 and cavort with their fellow Islamists. 0.79

00:58:41.700 I don't agree with that at all.

00:58:42.860 Yes.

00:58:43.040 Exactly. 1.00

00:58:43.360 So hang them because there is no doubt that they did it. 0.99

00:58:47.300 And what naive optimism are we laboring under where we think that locking them in a box 0.77

00:58:51.220 for a little while and giving them room to reflect might recondition them and allow them

00:58:55.420 to assimilate back into civilization?

00:58:56.760 And I agree with this because, you know, a lot of people ask me why I oppose the death

00:59:00.400 penalty.

00:59:01.140 And it's because we do not have such a system here in the United States where we only give

00:59:06.600 the death penalty when there is a clear video of a man doing it who then screams, I did it 0.91

00:59:09.760 and we'll do it again.

00:59:10.800 We have instances where corrupt prosecutors like Kamala Harris tell me, trust me, this

00:59:16.260 person's bad.

00:59:17.460 And it has resulted in an amount of innocent death.

00:59:20.540 I'm actually with you on this because we debated this last time, didn't we?

00:59:23.460 Because you are right.

00:59:24.560 But I think Connor is also right as well.

00:59:26.700 Like we can have an infallible standard at this point.

00:59:30.700 We've got, you know, video evidence, we've got DNA evidence.

00:59:32.740 Right.

00:59:33.060 We've got, you know.

00:59:34.000 Well, they're proud that they did it.

00:59:35.140 Exactly.

00:59:35.740 All the hawk bar.

00:59:36.920 Exactly.

00:59:37.080 Right.

00:59:37.600 They're unbelievably proud they did.

00:59:38.720 So in cases where we can rule out that it couldn't possibly have been anyone else and

00:59:43.060 we can establish those cases, I'm 100% in favor of it.

00:59:46.460 But I also got to add the problem of your country in this circumstance.

00:59:50.920 What do you think would have happened to this man if he did this in West Virginia?

00:59:56.000 Well, he would have been shot.

00:59:57.280 Several times.

00:59:58.100 Which is great.

01:00:00.140 So Americans do believe in the death penalty.

01:00:03.360 And I want to clarify what it means when you say this is great and you're smiling.

01:00:06.580 You know, I feel that emotion.

01:00:08.800 I feel that we have stopped an evil man who is trying to harm an innocent man and we are

01:00:13.020 glad it happened.

01:00:13.840 I'm sad the person dies.

01:00:15.220 I'm sad these conflicts exist.

01:00:16.780 No, no.

01:00:17.020 You're shaking your head.

01:00:17.920 No, no, no.

01:00:18.600 I'm not shaking my head.

01:00:19.320 I can't manifest sympathy.

01:00:21.620 In a broad sense.

01:00:22.720 It's not sympathy for the evil person.

01:00:25.000 It's lamenting that...

01:00:26.940 The world is like this.

01:00:27.960 Yeah, we don't want people to die.

01:00:30.740 I want the maximum potential of all man.

01:00:34.060 I want to reach the stars.

01:00:35.000 I want to go to Mars.

01:00:35.780 I want to interplanetary, interstellal, subspace communications.

01:00:40.240 And when a crazy ideologue pulls out a machete and then says, screams a fanatical,

01:00:46.520 Allahu Akbar, and then grabs a guy by the hair and... 0.94

01:00:49.000 This is awful.

01:00:51.180 We do not want these circumstances.

01:00:53.620 But unfortunately, those circumstances can and will happen.

01:00:56.420 Yes.

01:00:56.920 And so we should do the right thing in the right circumstances for the right reasons,

01:01:01.320 for the right results.

01:01:02.380 And that is Phil drawing his gun and blowing the guy away.

01:01:05.140 The reason...

01:01:05.700 That's what it is.

01:01:07.840 100%.

01:01:08.240 And we can feel good about that.

01:01:09.380 We can get catharsis at that.

01:01:10.500 But, yeah, I agree.

01:01:12.080 My concern, however, is I want to make sure that we present ourselves to future generations

01:01:17.320 as firm, logical, rational.

01:01:21.820 And when a child looks at a man who just had to end the life of another man who is evil,

01:01:27.200 he does not say, ha, ha, ha, what a great thing, my child.

01:01:29.820 He says, we must endeavor to make these not possible, which means a secure state, a secure

01:01:36.400 border, and these criminals not being able to engage in these actions in the first place.

01:01:40.400 We should not celebrate that we had to end the life of a crazy person.

01:01:43.260 Sure, but there's also a kind of issue with the...

01:01:48.520 I don't think morality is rational, right?

01:01:50.800 I think morality is sentimental.

01:01:52.640 And I think to be a genuinely good person, you have to tap into a well of feeling that

01:01:59.660 you feel towards someone else.

01:02:01.180 I actually...

01:02:01.680 And this is what heroism is, right?

01:02:04.660 Because whenever you see these videos where you've got some lunatic with a gun going around

01:02:08.220 killing people, and then some guy puts his own neck out and just, bam, gets him, that

01:02:12.860 is heroism. 0.78

01:02:14.200 That's a heroic act.

01:02:15.260 Yes.

01:02:15.540 He's putting himself in danger.

01:02:16.820 And this isn't rational, because it's rational to just leave.

01:02:19.500 It's not my problem.

01:02:20.080 I'm going to go, right?

01:02:20.940 But no, I'm going to put myself in the line of danger because it's morally the right thing

01:02:23.620 to do.

01:02:23.860 It comes from the heart.

01:02:25.420 Look at the...

01:02:26.000 But I agree with you.

01:02:27.060 There should be a level of due solemnity to this.

01:02:29.200 I think it is only because, and it's...

01:02:33.240 I don't even know if I have the grounds to say this, but neither of us have ever had

01:02:36.120 to shoot somebody.

01:02:37.040 Right.

01:02:37.460 The only thing I've ever heard from people who have is trauma and regret and wonder,

01:02:42.400 did I have to?

01:02:43.540 Should I have?

01:02:44.380 The stories from Vietnam where we draft these young men, drop them on the shores, and they 0.98

01:02:48.700 aim above the average height of a person.

01:02:52.380 They shoot into the trees because they don't want to do it.

01:02:55.920 This has not been my experience.

01:02:57.200 There's a lot of people that I know that, especially guys that tend to get into the

01:03:01.400 special forces stuff, they are as murdery as they come.

01:03:07.380 Chris Coyle's biography is exactly that.

01:03:09.320 That's scary.

01:03:10.020 And there's another guy.

01:03:10.860 There's a guy that, BJ Baldwin, right?

01:03:16.260 He's a race car driver, does BJJ.

01:03:18.260 A couple years back, he was in a parking lot in Las Vegas, and a guy pulled out a gun and

01:03:24.420 was attacking his girl, and he does a lot of competitions.

01:03:27.400 He cleared the garment, drew, smoked the guy, two sets, like under a second.

01:03:31.920 Wow.

01:03:32.140 Like super fast.

01:03:33.160 And he did what he had to do to save his girlfriend or his wife.

01:03:35.860 When you do things like that for the right reasons, if you're defending your family, it is actually

01:03:44.220 more common for people to not feel that kind of bad.

01:03:49.520 Exactly.

01:03:49.640 Why would you?

01:03:50.060 And that is a good thing.

01:03:52.520 And it's something as a society, we should hold in high regard because you did the hard

01:03:58.280 right thing.

01:03:59.400 But I agree.

01:04:00.700 And my point is, I don't want the next generation to think we get satisfaction and joy out of

01:04:06.640 causing harm.

01:04:07.540 Well, yeah.

01:04:08.080 The harm should be a negative.

01:04:10.020 And I'm thinking of the stories of the superheroes that I grew up with and their naivety.

01:04:16.480 Superman would never kill.

01:04:17.600 Batman would never kill.

01:04:19.080 But I did.

01:04:20.840 Because the writers were smart.

01:04:23.700 And so Injustice 2, I think, is the video game that came out 10 years ago or whatever.

01:04:29.400 Ah, story.

01:04:30.540 In the early days, the golden era of superheroes, they didn't kill.

01:04:33.860 They would capture and arrest.

01:04:35.100 Joker died in his first appearance, actually.

01:04:36.980 Oh, did he really?

01:04:37.520 Yeah.

01:04:37.800 They saved him on the final page.

01:04:39.160 They had him in the back of an ambulance having been stabbed, tripped and fallen over

01:04:42.020 on his own knife.

01:04:42.700 And then one of the writers went, oh my God, he's going to live because they realized he'd

01:04:45.300 be so popular.

01:04:45.740 Right, right, right.

01:04:46.440 But that tripped and fallen over his own knife is very different from, you know, the moral

01:04:50.060 code of-

01:04:50.520 Being killed.

01:04:50.840 Yeah, Batman drowned a guy in an acid vat and detected-

01:04:54.620 What year?

01:04:55.160 1937.

01:04:55.980 So early.

01:04:57.080 Yes.

01:04:57.300 Well, then there was this period where it was very much like they don't kill, but-

01:05:01.200 It's very much the sort of like 60s era, right?

01:05:03.580 The liberal era.

01:05:04.380 It was under the comics code, actually.

01:05:05.760 And then-

01:05:06.200 That's why.

01:05:07.360 Ah, that's interesting.

01:05:08.260 But you end up with some writers who are like, there's serious short-sightedness to

01:05:14.000 how they're writing this.

01:05:15.340 And you end up with a story where Joker, there's a couple different-

01:05:18.660 He detonates a nuke in Metropolis, massacring millions.

01:05:22.180 Yeah.

01:05:22.660 And then Superman loses his mind telling Batman, if you just did one time what had to be done,

01:05:30.420 millions of people would live.

01:05:31.880 Yeah.

01:05:32.040 And I think that's the Injustice arc where he becomes- where they become the Justice Lords.

01:05:35.920 That's a great point, though, because this is the point that we're making about, like,

01:05:39.360 you know, Phil making about the guy- shooting the guy who's going to threaten his wife.

01:05:43.040 We're not celebrating having done harm because we're not trying to do harm.

01:05:47.480 What we're doing is preventing-

01:05:48.840 But I agree.

01:05:50.000 So the reason I bring up the superhero stuff is, I want kids to look up to heroes who

01:05:55.620 say, it's a terrible choice that had to be made.

01:05:59.220 Not a ha-ha-ha-ha.

01:06:00.840 You know what I mean?

01:06:01.540 Sure.

01:06:02.180 And I agree, there should be sort of due solemnity.

01:06:05.500 But I don't think there's any- I don't think it helps.

01:06:08.600 Like, quibbling over, well, what about the harm to the criminal?

01:06:11.480 Well, sorry.

01:06:12.340 No, no, no.

01:06:13.860 I agree.

01:06:14.780 It's about what's just.

01:06:16.360 You know, who is the just man in this situation?

01:06:19.040 I was talking about Cincinnatus the other day, and he's the- he was a consul in- it was

01:06:26.100 Rome, I believe, right?

01:06:27.260 Yeah.

01:06:27.320 And he was called upon during an invasion to take dictatorial powers, and I think it

01:06:33.680 was like 14 days, 16 days, they quelled the invasion, and he says, I'll see you guys

01:06:39.560 later, and they were like, you don't want- you have absolute power, everyone will do it.

01:06:43.220 He's like, I'm going to go back to my farm.

01:06:44.520 And several years later, another emergency, they called him back, they said there's an

01:06:48.140 uprising, he's like, I'll take care of it, but then I'm leaving.

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01:07:49.440 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

01:07:53.640 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

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01:08:14.880 Did I mention that we care?

01:08:18.200 You look at that and that is a, that is something I think we, that is a story to look up to.

01:08:24.760 Reluctant leadership, strong heroes who do the right thing, minimize harm, but do what

01:08:30.080 needs to be done.

01:08:31.340 And we all understand the seriousness.

01:08:34.000 And that's just it, I guess.

01:08:35.280 It's like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sympathizing with the criminal.

01:08:37.800 No, no, no, no, no.

01:08:38.300 I know you know that.

01:08:38.720 And I agree with you.

01:08:39.480 I want, I want our children to grow up to be like that great dictator, emperor who gave

01:08:44.120 up his power.

01:08:44.920 They are strong men.

01:08:46.120 They are rational men.

01:08:47.660 My concern is you get, if people, if children are taught to derive pleasure from these circumstances,

01:08:54.240 you end up with these leftist lunatics and violent, we, we, we, we want strong reason.

01:09:00.480 The issue is that there's a huge moral component that underpins the heroism of the good guy 0.85

01:09:06.340 in our mythology, right?

01:09:07.960 In our superhero mythology, in our, our, you know, just actual mythology.

01:09:12.160 There's a, there's a very, very strong moral component.

01:09:14.540 It's not frivolous, right?

01:09:16.220 Like, look at Lord of the Rings, right?

01:09:17.600 There's a lot of violence in Lord of the Rings, but it's all justified and it's all good.

01:09:21.280 You know, it's all good violence to stop the orcs from pillaging the Shire or whatever

01:09:24.820 it is, pillaging Rohan or whatever.

01:09:26.020 You know, it's, it's underpinned by a very firm moral foundation of right and wrong and

01:09:31.180 for the right reasons, you know?

01:09:33.100 So I, I'm not worried about that, but I, I do appreciate that you're, that there is

01:09:38.040 a danger of falling into kind of sadism or something like that.

01:09:41.860 I completely agree.

01:09:42.720 We want to avoid that.

01:09:43.720 Like we, I would say is I know that you, when you're celebrating the bad guy being stopped

01:09:49.600 who was trying to be, who literally beheaded a soldier, your celebration is not in the death.

01:09:53.780 It's in the preservation of life.

01:09:55.240 It's in the preservation of justice.

01:09:57.040 And my concern is a child who may not understand the nuances of this thinking the celebration

01:10:01.080 is in the destruction as opposed to the, as opposed to the, you know, limiting factor

01:10:05.760 of maybe, but I'm, I'm pretty sure that we're emphasizing the justice that is being preserved

01:10:10.300 by the stopping of the evildoer.

01:10:12.260 You know, I'm pretty sure that's well emphasized.

01:10:14.460 As long as the, as long as the children understand that, you know, when our soldiers come home and

01:10:20.120 we're celebrating and cheering mission accomplished, it's not because of the death that was wrought

01:10:23.580 in the war, it's because of what we halted, what was stopped and what needed to be done

01:10:27.980 for, for the preservation of our society and our life.

01:10:30.480 Context does matter because if you're like, to Tim's point, the, the idea of people coming

01:10:35.840 home from war and having done what they were, you know, told they had to do in a, in a combat

01:10:41.080 situation is one thing.

01:10:42.100 Um, and then something more of what I described where you're on the street defending the lives

01:10:47.020 of your family or whatever, those are very different contexts and that, that they should

01:10:51.200 be approached differently.

01:10:52.100 And the differences in the context need to be addressed because if you, if you are defending

01:10:58.260 your family or your children, or even if you're just defending innocent people, part of the

01:11:03.280 reason that we have, you know, we, we have the issues in New York city is because, you know,

01:11:08.820 Daniel Penny got put, you know, got picked up by the police for trying to defend.

01:11:14.260 So it is a, it is sad that the person died, you know, that wasn't their intent, but the,

01:11:20.880 the effort wasn't to kill the man.

01:11:23.420 The effort was to stop the attack.

01:11:25.340 And that's one of the things that, I mean, I go to a lot of gun classes.

01:11:27.960 I've gone to more than, you know, at least 15 different times I've gone to handgun classes

01:11:32.780 and, and stuff like that.

01:11:34.020 And one of the things that you're, that you're taught is you're not killing anyone.

01:11:39.120 The point is not killing.

01:11:40.540 The point is not to do anything other than to stop the threat.

01:11:44.960 And one of the things you have to learn is in an, in, in, in, in an interaction like

01:11:49.960 that, the legal use of force is like a light switch.

01:11:53.880 There are times where you can, you can be in a situation where you, you have to draw your

01:11:58.100 gun and you take shots and then the person can fall on the ground, right?

01:12:02.040 Like because they lose blood, but because of the way the body works, when they fall on

01:12:06.240 the, on the ground and their blood pressure had dropped.

01:12:09.540 And so they drop, but then when they're on the ground and they're laying down, blood

01:12:11.900 goes back to their brain.

01:12:12.900 They could still have the gun. 0.99

01:12:13.840 And when they're on the ground, you can't shoot them anymore.

01:12:16.440 But once the blood goes back into their brain and they get a little bit of sense back,

01:12:19.500 if they start getting up with the gun again, flip that switch, it's time to go to work

01:12:23.280 again and stop that threat.

01:12:25.220 And that's the way that you have to break it down.

01:12:27.060 This brings me, uh, you know, I'm thinking about an interesting, uh, consequence of the

01:12:32.260 globalization of civilization and technology.

01:12:34.960 The idea is we, we're not trying to kill.

01:12:37.920 We're trying to stop the threat and protect our, our society.

01:12:41.560 We want justice.

01:12:42.780 We want stability.

01:12:43.840 We want our values upheld.

01:12:45.060 If someone is going to, you know, I suppose the idea would be if you had the ability to

01:12:49.620 use the force and there was a guy who had to commit a murder and you could just halt him,

01:12:54.340 that would be required by our society as opposed to using a gun.

01:12:58.040 The reason, the reason the gun is allowed is because it is the means by which you stop the

01:13:02.180 threat, not kill the person.

01:13:03.880 As technology is advancing, we are now running into a very serious conundrum of the gray area

01:13:10.000 of, of, of weaponry.

01:13:11.680 But also you go back in time, exile was a, was an option.

01:13:17.920 Running someone out of town was an option.

01:13:20.500 People would be satisfied to a certain degree.

01:13:22.760 If they had a small village, there was a person who lived there who was a criminal and they

01:13:26.500 chased him away and he ran off into the woods and was never seen again.

01:13:29.240 They'd say, yay, we're safe.

01:13:31.360 It doesn't exist anymore.

01:13:32.780 These, the United States, there's no running anywhere.

01:13:34.700 You're not going to Canada or Mexico.

01:13:35.680 They're not going to let you in.

01:13:36.440 You can try, but then you're a problem there.

01:13:39.120 Then the question becomes, while we don't want people to die, we want to preserve justice.

01:13:44.320 Then there's a, there's a difference in, and this is interesting.

01:13:47.660 If you do not need to kill the person who is about to commit a murder or a series of

01:13:53.960 murder, whatever it may be, and you capture them, but you know, they are a threat and they

01:13:59.160 say to you and to everyone, I'll do it again.

01:14:01.960 You let me out.

01:14:02.640 I swear.

01:14:03.520 Then we must pay forever as a society.

01:14:07.500 How does, what, what is the answer to this question?

01:14:09.860 Certainly it is not so easy to say, uh, that we're just going to keep paying resources and

01:14:15.060 doing labor to preserve the, the, some, some standard of living for someone who is trying

01:14:20.140 to kill and murder and maim. 0.69

01:14:21.360 It doesn't seem just, does it? 0.99

01:14:22.880 It's, but, and then the problem is what is the alternative?

01:14:28.300 There's no, there's no exile anymore.

01:14:30.580 Put, you know, that's why I've proposed half jokingly the island where we get a big

01:14:35.700 island, like a big one, maybe, you know, like 20, 30 square miles somewhere.

01:14:39.120 And not big enough and too close.

01:14:42.080 I'm saying in the middle of nowhere and we say, here's what we're going to do.

01:14:44.600 We're not paying for you, but you, you're also not welcome in our society anymore.

01:14:48.340 So we're going to get your new little society.

01:14:50.460 That's right.

01:14:51.300 Arkham city.

01:14:51.900 It's where all of the, you want to live that way, live that way with them.

01:14:55.260 And you guys have your own social order.

01:14:57.260 And then I feel like that's a solution.

01:15:00.260 We, it minimizes how much we have to spend on, on preserving the lives of evil, of evil

01:15:04.240 people without killing them.

01:15:05.760 And it solves the moral question. 0.96

01:15:06.840 And then, Hey, we're not killing them. 0.55

01:15:09.420 We're breaking their chains. 0.70

01:15:10.760 The liberal, liberal anthropology won't allow that.

01:15:12.800 And the reason is it's the, they believe that by contact with this paradoxically value,

01:15:22.360 neutral, but pro liberal assertion of values, they will have all their civilizational priors

01:15:27.680 deconditioned.

01:15:28.640 It's like, uh, the Freerian idea of education.

01:15:33.140 The child who hasn't been appropriately inculcated into the society yet repeals the priors of

01:15:39.420 the teacher.

01:15:39.780 And then the teacher replaces their priors with proactive liberal slash Marxist values.

01:15:44.740 And this is what's happening in the UK with these Palestine protests and the mass immigration. 0.99

01:15:49.160 The idea is that we will allow these protests to continue on because eventually just by making

01:15:54.500 physical and cultural contact with secular liberal capitalism, all of these tribal issues

01:15:59.440 will dissolve into a neutral liberal milieu.

01:16:02.740 Liberals are special people.

01:16:03.720 Well, yeah, liberalism.

01:16:04.700 Very optimistic.

01:16:05.800 Very optimistic.

01:16:06.980 You know, you know, the phrase melting pot that is applied to America often, it's, they

01:16:12.280 think of a melting pot as a crucible, right?

01:16:14.100 You put all these metals in and all the impurities will be burnt off and you'll create a billet

01:16:17.700 that you can fashion a fantastic dagger out of.

01:16:20.020 Actually, it's a blender.

01:16:21.360 You put all of these incompatible ingredients in and liberalism is the parameters, the cup

01:16:25.860 that all these ingredients are in.

01:16:27.140 You hit blend and they think there'll be some sort of nutritious smoothie in it.

01:16:30.160 Instead of this lumpy thing and the most dominant illiberal ingredient will be the strongest

01:16:34.000 possible aftertaste.

01:16:34.960 I actually, I disagree.

01:16:36.280 I think it is, the crucible argument is correct.

01:16:38.440 The problem is liberalism is what will be removed as an impurity.

01:16:42.220 So the denser material of culture is not liberalism.

01:16:47.540 So if you were to, let's call it a centrifuge, right?

01:16:50.880 If you were to take all of these various cultural metals and put them in the crucible, 1.00

01:16:55.520 boil it up, liberalism rises to the top and is pushed out and the denser material is not

01:17:00.640 going to be liberalism.

01:17:01.920 And a good example of this is even Noam Chomsky.

01:17:04.260 When he was asked, there's that famous email where he was asked about violence and he said,

01:17:09.140 we must not engage in violence because if we enter this arena, he said something in the

01:17:13.500 arena of violence, we are not the strong and we will lose.

01:17:17.260 And that's what he was trying to tell these, you know, hippie progressive leftists, but

01:17:20.620 not like it matters.

01:17:22.120 I believe he's correct.

01:17:23.180 The leftist liberal that is engaging in the acts of violence, and this is a meme most people 0.99

01:17:29.660 talk about, throwing firebombs, using guns, they suck at everything they do. 0.98

01:17:34.280 And unfortunately, our society here in the United States and to large degrees in Europe, 0.96

01:17:39.740 they're tolerating this leftist unrest.

01:17:41.880 However, most people agree that rural conservative Second Amendment cheering folks are going to be

01:17:49.380 substantially better at armed combat and conflict, but they try their best to refrain from that

01:17:54.380 becoming the norm for obvious reasons.

01:17:56.280 You take liberalism and American conservatism, and you throw them in the crucible, and the

01:18:01.580 ejection will be liberalism, not conservatism.

01:18:03.500 I mean, really, when you think about it, they're so bloody lucky that the average rural American

01:18:08.340 is such a decent fellow.

01:18:10.180 They're so lucky.

01:18:11.300 Because, I mean, in many places in the world, these kind of people aren't decent fellows.

01:18:14.860 But my point to what you're saying is, if you take fundamentalist Islam and British liberalism

01:18:22.500 and put them in a crucible, liberalism is what's going to be pushed out.

01:18:26.200 Islam will become the mass. 0.96

01:18:27.520 They think, though, that the technological progress that comes out of liberalism because of its

01:18:33.480 narrative of it being the apotheosis of philosophy as of the Enlightenment, and off the coattails

01:18:38.840 of the scientific revolution, will be a seductive enough power to persuade the Islamists. 0.88

01:18:42.880 And they're not wrong in some places, because have you seen the city, The Line, this massive

01:18:47.800 wall city that looks like a destiny map?

01:18:49.360 A plan.

01:18:49.840 Well, it's a plan for it, yeah.

01:18:51.360 But it's collapsed.

01:18:52.360 Yes.

01:18:52.940 They can't do it.

01:18:53.580 But where are they trying to do this?

01:18:54.720 It's in Saudi Arabia.

01:18:55.700 Yep.

01:18:55.780 So there is a degree of parasitism happening, just because the attraction of wealth and

01:19:03.180 the abolition of privation and of suffering that comes with the adoption of liberal technology,

01:19:08.840 it's a strong argument.

01:19:10.160 And you really need to be like an Amish or a Mennonite or a proper Islamic fundamentalist 0.99

01:19:14.660 to not buy into the technology.

01:19:16.100 And that's what C.S. Lewis was writing about.

01:19:17.400 He was essentially saying that the paradigm of technology is trying to stave off nature's

01:19:22.900 rule over man, in this Francis Bacon idea.

01:19:24.980 Those that buy into that, over the generations, will eventually be men ruled by other men who 0.98

01:19:30.760 applied technology to them.

01:19:31.920 They don't know how to build and maintain themselves.

01:19:34.280 And then when something in that technology breaks, nature will reassert itself.

01:19:37.460 The only people that will be able to survive that will be living on the outside of that 0.98

01:19:40.300 technological paradigm.

01:19:41.540 And those, coming back to demographics, those are the only ones with positive birth rates.

01:19:44.960 I agree.

01:19:45.420 I think that's true.

01:19:46.260 I mean, right now, with OnlyFans, for instance, we have a declining birth rate.

01:19:50.760 This is apocalyptic for any society.

01:19:53.680 The fascinating thing now is that OnlyFans is turning into guys, talking to guys, but

01:20:00.260 pretending to be girls.

01:20:02.060 And other guys are buying into this.

01:20:04.960 The masturbatory machine, I mean that literally and figuratively, of the dopamine release economy 0.64

01:20:11.560 that we have in the United States, is creating a group of people that are going to destroy 0.97

01:20:15.100 themselves.

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01:21:44.140 Outside of this, it is going to be, you know, the way I've described it is the conservative

01:21:50.360 birth rate is higher than the liberal birth rate.

01:21:52.080 The very simple reality.

01:21:53.360 If your ideology leans more towards a traditional worldview, your culture, society, your faith,

01:21:57.780 your religion, and your duty, you're more likely to survive.

01:22:00.540 And it's obvious.

01:22:01.460 I'm, I'm, that is true on its own terms, but the problem is the liberals control the

01:22:07.020 education system.

01:22:08.140 So it doesn't matter how many children conservatives have, they're just going to be fodder for

01:22:11.680 the liberal grinder, where they're going to just go through, okay, now you're a communist

01:22:15.960 when you come out of the education system.

01:22:17.760 50, 50, 50.

01:22:19.260 It is true.

01:22:20.200 But what we're seeing now culturally is conservatives have started to resist this.

01:22:23.880 And even classical liberals who, as you would view, are part of that chain, that component

01:22:30.660 into the communist pipeline.

01:22:31.880 But many of these now, I call them disaffected liberals.

01:22:36.220 Liberals who still think they're liberal, but have realized the party and the social structure

01:22:41.380 has gone chaotic and destructive.

01:22:43.600 We're now looking at pod learning, private education, and things like this, and healthcare

01:22:48.420 too.

01:22:48.760 A lot of people are dissociating themselves from the system they created.

01:22:53.820 A lot of the classical liberal wing of the woke coalition, and this would be very unpopular

01:22:59.360 to say though, are also not having the same propagative lifestyles as the non-tech conservatives

01:23:06.180 are.

01:23:07.140 They're using surrogacy. 0.99

01:23:08.820 They, their own kids are gay. 0.99

01:23:10.660 Or they're just using birth control. 1.00

01:23:12.040 Exactly.

01:23:12.960 And so they're still baked into the liberal reproductive priors as their, as their forebears. 0.99

01:23:18.240 So I think that will die out too.

01:23:19.580 I, I, I, I hear this argument a lot in the, uh, people in the USA, oh, the education system

01:23:24.440 is bad.

01:23:25.320 I still believe even with the education system controlled by the left, if you were to, I'd,

01:23:32.680 I'd, I'd make that bet, run the simulations, whatever you got to do, take conservative kid

01:23:36.460 and a liberal kid, run the simulation 50 billion times.

01:23:39.740 The only difference with liberals controlling the education system is that it will take longer

01:23:45.020 for them to collapse with the cultural shift, quite literally in the culture war with conservatives

01:23:50.140 creating, uh, fighting the education system, challenging these degenerate books in schools.

01:23:55.440 I, I think we're, we're rapidly on track and I can give you an actual example that I've

01:24:00.800 cited several times on my show and I, I, I covered this in my 2018 birth rates in the

01:24:06.540 two thousands among liberals was I think like 1.43 and conservatives was 2.03 or 2.05 or

01:24:12.320 something like that.

01:24:13.500 And the prediction was give it 18 years and you are going to see this represented in politics.

01:24:19.100 And we literally did a Pew research in 2018 found that for the first time in a hundred

01:24:24.240 years, Gen Z, the next, for the first time in a hundred years, a generation moved slightly 0.73

01:24:29.180 more conservative in some areas, not all in some.

01:24:32.460 And while Gen Z looks very, very much politically like millennials, they lean slightly more, uh,

01:24:38.460 to the right and conservative values.

01:24:40.300 Now, a lot of people immediately assumed it's because conservatives were winning the argument

01:24:44.940 and that's not the case.

01:24:46.400 It's because conservatives had more children.

01:24:49.040 That's it.

01:24:50.260 Now polls are coming out showing that Gen Z is shifting towards the Republican party.

01:24:54.280 Once again, people are, are acting like it's because we've convinced Gen Z to be conservative.

01:24:59.940 And I'm like, no, it's because conservatives had more children and those kids had a tendency

01:25:04.760 towards conservative values.

01:25:06.340 But also the, the left has really reached the sort of end point of their liberal ideals where 1.00

01:25:12.160 they're like, okay, so we're going to chop off your dick and you're going to take loads of drugs. 1.00

01:25:15.920 And you can't have a house. 1.00

01:25:16.800 Yeah, you, you, you, yeah, yeah, you'll live in a pod, you'll, you'll own nothing.

01:25:20.220 And it's, you know, I'm not surprised some Gen Z kids like, you know, I don't think I'm 0.99

01:25:24.220 that guys. 0.99

01:25:24.760 I think they're mental. 0.82

01:25:26.400 Uh, well, I do think it's fair to say that the right has won the argument in many areas.

01:25:31.900 Yeah.

01:25:32.420 The left has driven themselves to the point of absurdity in many areas.

01:25:36.260 I was talking to one guy who told me that, uh, he's a Gen Z Democrat voted for Joe Biden.

01:25:42.280 And, uh, we had a conversation, the end result of which he is a hardcore Republican down ticket

01:25:48.660 100% for one reason.

01:25:50.620 I want to, I want to ask you guys what you think he's, he's, uh, in his mid twenties.

01:25:55.060 Could be any number of things.

01:25:56.480 He's in mid twenties, owns his own business in a relationship.

01:26:00.840 And, uh, something happened in his life that made him decide to vote Republican down ticket

01:26:05.120 across the board.

01:26:06.080 And I'll give you one hint.

01:26:07.480 He's no longer in a relationship.

01:26:10.960 Divorce.

01:26:11.660 Nope.

01:26:12.280 Any guesses?

01:26:14.600 No, I do.

01:26:15.360 His child was aborted.

01:26:16.740 Oh, right.

01:26:18.340 Well, okay.

01:26:18.740 Yeah.

01:26:18.900 Fair enough.

01:26:19.280 I've, I've had friends of mine that this happened.

01:26:20.660 He said he was so excited.

01:26:23.780 He was going to be a dad.

01:26:25.220 Yeah.

01:26:25.680 He owned a business and she said, no.

01:26:28.680 And then he said, I'm voting Republican across the board.

01:26:31.140 And I was like, whoa.

01:26:33.680 So yeah.

01:26:34.820 A sad.

01:26:35.800 Yeah.

01:26:36.600 Terrifying story.

01:26:37.960 So, um, I don't know how much longer we've got left, but I thought, I thought what it

01:26:41.660 might be worth doing is talking about what, what is a sort of alternative way of looking

01:26:45.700 at the world to the liberal way.

01:26:47.280 So before we get into that, you, you two have both convinced me because my preconceptions

01:26:53.960 about, um, what liberalism was or is apparently they were wrong because the things that you're

01:27:00.280 pointing out, the idea of a blank slate, I don't agree with the idea that that society

01:27:06.000 existed prior to, or that society didn't exist prior to man.

01:27:09.340 I don't agree with.

01:27:10.040 So all, all of the things that you've pointed out, I already agreed with.

01:27:13.820 And I thought about thought exactly.

01:27:15.500 I just, I had a different preconceived or a different understanding of the fundamental

01:27:20.220 to add some continuity to this that might be interesting is that I really appreciate

01:27:26.820 the humility that you've come to this discussion with Phil.

01:27:29.440 Well, because it's why I want to understand someone you cite frequently as friend of friend

01:27:32.980 of the show, James Lindsay.

01:27:33.960 Yeah.

01:27:34.100 When Carl put this to James, despite having frequent conversations, James decided to block

01:27:39.560 Carl and not listen.

01:27:40.940 And, and, and, and this is, I think the same reason why we keep hearing this term far right

01:27:48.060 is the same reason why James doesn't want to acknowledge this.

01:27:50.840 And the same reason why James is a liberal in cynical theories.

01:27:54.400 He and Helen Pluckrow said the reason they want to defeat critical social justice, wokeness

01:28:00.300 is because they fear not necessarily their aims going too far because they agree with everything

01:28:05.240 up until the 1990s.

01:28:06.160 Basically, it's that they're afraid of the far right backlash that's going to come when

01:28:09.980 this thing inevitably fails.

01:28:11.180 And what far right now takes to mean in parlance, this is why lots of disaffected liberals,

01:28:15.420 even like yourself, Tim, are now part of the far right.

01:28:18.240 Far right, especially after the second world war, essentially put the blank slate on steroids

01:28:22.060 because nobody wanted to see the Nazis rise to power again, means any nation, whether

01:28:26.500 they fought or allied with the Germans, who has a preference for their own people,

01:28:29.700 their own history, their own culture, and their own national preferences.

01:28:33.180 And that is seen as a provocation against universal, homogenous, anti-racist liberalism.

01:28:38.380 And so this is why I think any time that a post-liberal vision has been articulated that is particular

01:28:42.820 about a religion or a people, the likes of James and some of the anti-war coalition have

01:28:49.580 gone, whoa, whoa, hang on, guys.

01:28:51.060 I thought we were just going back to the 90s here.

01:28:53.120 We don't want the religious right in charge. 1.00

01:28:55.040 I'm going to denounce you just as much as the left.

01:28:57.940 And I'm not going to listen to any of the principled criticisms of liberalism from the

01:29:01.800 guys they now see as far right.

01:29:03.500 When I muted James Lindsay, I didn't block him.

01:29:07.820 He's terrible on Twitter.

01:29:08.900 I muted him.

01:29:09.500 And the reason was when I saw him arguing with you, Carl, and I know you and you have

01:29:15.880 sound reasoned and excellent conversations around these ideas, which are fun, funny,

01:29:19.500 and exciting.

01:29:19.940 I didn't insult him, did I?

01:29:21.200 No, your tweet was very polite and academic and he blocked you over it.

01:29:25.020 And that said to me, I was like, at first I was like, well, that's weird.

01:29:28.900 I'm like, I know James.

01:29:29.700 He's a good guy.

01:29:30.340 Like, why would he block Carl?

01:29:31.260 This is, they're the perfect people to discuss things.

01:29:33.060 I thought so.

01:29:33.640 And then that was the first issue I took.

01:29:38.320 But then he started posting incessantly about Christian nationalism in such a way that conveyed

01:29:44.960 no message.

01:29:45.760 He hadn't read the book when he actually made his podcast about it.

01:29:47.820 He admitted this.

01:29:48.540 He just posted a post that didn't explain anything and just seemed like it was spamming it.

01:29:52.120 And then ultimately he made the comment of something to the effect of, it's not my job

01:29:56.460 to educate them.

01:29:57.980 And I said, these were three moves that were left liberal, leftist messaging strategies that

01:30:04.700 I disagree with and find to be dishonest.

01:30:06.760 And so I didn't block him, but I said, I don't want to see this anymore.

01:30:10.680 This is ineffective, ineffective messaging.

01:30:13.720 It's irrational.

01:30:15.920 He insulted my friend, which I take issue with, but I'm not so emotional to where I wouldn't

01:30:20.860 listen to an argument simply because he was insulting Carl.

01:30:23.720 But I felt that this classical liberal approach he was taking, or I'm sorry, the idea that

01:30:28.820 he was promoting this idea, but at the same time was presenting in much the same way as

01:30:33.420 the woke, which I disagree with, I said, not interested.

01:30:37.200 It's interesting how, I mean, there's a radio host called Ian Dale in the UK, who normally

01:30:44.040 is well known for his sort of common sense interventions.

01:30:48.760 But when Sweller Braverman, the former Home Secretary, came out and said, well, look, I

01:30:51.900 don't think that we should trans children, actually. 0.99

01:30:54.720 He has defaulted back into that kind of shit lib, screeching leftist frame where he's got, 0.99

01:31:00.500 I'm going to do everything in my power I can to stop her. 0.99

01:31:02.180 It's like, but she's right.

01:31:03.940 You know, why?

01:31:05.340 Because he's fundamentally a liberal, even if he is a moderate one on most issues.

01:31:10.400 When you hit that hot button issue, then suddenly they become the screeching leftist.

01:31:14.620 And it's like, what's going on?

01:31:16.340 Okay.

01:31:16.480 So then go on with what you were talking about, the alternative, because I still think that

01:31:21.420 there are, there's so, there's far more good in classical liberalism or whatever you want

01:31:28.240 to say, call it, than there is bad.

01:31:30.520 And I think that.

01:31:32.120 No, no, he is right.

01:31:33.360 He is right.

01:31:34.460 Listen.

01:31:35.580 I didn't say anything.

01:31:37.020 I'm letting you.

01:31:37.860 All right.

01:31:38.220 I think that there's far more good in classical liberalism than there is bad.

01:31:41.720 So what is this?

01:31:42.940 What is the option or the solution?

01:31:44.540 Because to say a postmodern traditionalist or something like that, people don't understand.

01:31:51.000 Yeah.

01:31:51.220 So the thing to remember with liberalism is what it is, is the abstraction of the English

01:31:58.200 political tradition, right?

01:31:59.780 And so when we were saying yesterday that America is the fulfillment of the English political

01:32:03.380 tradition, in many ways it really is.

01:32:05.400 And it's because this is just how the English have always done politics.

01:32:09.520 This is what they believe to be true.

01:32:11.240 Like liberalism is basically a form of like Anglo-Sharia, right?

01:32:14.560 It's like, this is the right way for an Englishman to live, but it's not the right way for everyone

01:32:17.980 to live.

01:32:18.720 And so this is why when the Americans are parroting back their own values in the form of liberalism,

01:32:24.280 they go, yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

01:32:26.680 We'll do that.

01:32:27.140 And then they just get on with their lives, right?

01:32:28.380 When it happens in France, it becomes a bloody revolution because it's just not how they

01:32:32.640 live, right?

01:32:33.580 When it happens in Russia, when the Russian Revolution becomes unbelievably bloody because

01:32:36.880 it's just not how they live.

01:32:38.160 So what it is is just parroting back what you already believe back at yourself.

01:32:42.440 Well, we don't need to have an abstract distillation of doctrine to do that, right?

01:32:47.380 We already live and breathe these things.

01:32:49.720 Like liberalism doesn't have a monopoly on freedom.

01:32:52.120 It doesn't have a monopoly on equality of rights.

01:32:55.140 It doesn't have a monopoly on fair procedure.

01:32:57.520 Like these are things that all existed prior to liberalism.

01:33:00.120 So we don't need liberalism to have those things.

01:33:02.440 This is the way we live our lives.

01:33:04.220 This is what we believe to be real and true and valuable anyway, right?

01:33:08.020 So we can begin from a different foundation and still arrive with those things without

01:33:14.760 the excesses and wrong turns that liberalism ends up taking because of the way it characterizes

01:33:21.820 the origin of the world, right?

01:33:23.580 So if we begin, instead of saying, well, man was an individual in the state of nature running

01:33:30.200 around fighting bears and eating acorns or whatever, if we say, no, actually what it

01:33:34.100 was, and anthropologically this is correct from the archaeology, humans lived in tribes.

01:33:40.840 We've always lived in small tribes.

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01:34:50.000 to tell our clients that we really care about you.

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01:35:06.680 Did I mention that we care?

01:35:09.860 30 people, right?

01:35:11.660 And so you've always had a hierarchy.

01:35:13.380 Every tribe has a hierarchy.

01:35:15.000 And Jordan Peterson makes this point.

01:35:16.080 Human beings have been hierarchical.

01:35:17.860 I mean, you know, the animals have been hierarchical since longer than trees have existed, right?

01:35:22.400 Lobsters.

01:35:22.940 Exactly.

01:35:23.400 That's what the lobster thing is. 0.99

01:35:24.720 Human beings are no different.

01:35:25.860 There's always a head man in a tribe.

01:35:27.480 And there's always a kind of, you know, the sort of patriarchal, you know, and then matriarchal layers in the tribe.

01:35:32.880 And that's good and proper because you should respect your mom and dad.

01:35:36.360 You should respect your nan, your granddad.

01:35:38.460 You should respect your aunties and your uncles.

01:35:40.260 And they will treat you in a particular kind of way.

01:35:42.740 They'll treat with love and kindness.

01:35:44.140 They'll help you when you need help, right?

01:35:45.700 And so instantly we are already in a social frame.

01:35:49.740 No, you belong in a society.

01:35:51.180 You belong in these relationships.

01:35:53.140 And they can be good and they can be bad.

01:35:54.880 You know, obviously, you know, you can have an abusive father or whatever.

01:35:57.240 But this is why you have lots of different relationships with lots of people who love you.

01:36:02.200 And so, yeah, if you've got an abusive father, well, then go to your uncle on your mom's side or something like this.

01:36:06.600 You know, you can find people who can help you.

01:36:08.440 And so this familial way, relational way of looking at the world imbues the relationships themselves with moral goodness.

01:36:19.400 Whereas liberalism says, well, these are chains.

01:36:21.900 These are chains that hold you back, hold you down.

01:36:24.100 You'll never be properly liberated.

01:36:25.900 It's like, no, that's not true.

01:36:27.340 You know, my relationships with my friends, my family, my community, these are all where the nourishing content of moral life actually exists.

01:36:34.760 And so now I've imbued these with a positive good.

01:36:38.440 It is good to see your friends.

01:36:39.980 It's good to see your family.

01:36:40.860 It's good to see all these things.

01:36:41.940 Like, who doesn't love hanging out with their mates?

01:36:43.600 Who doesn't love visiting their family at Christmas?

01:36:45.660 Like, it's crazy that liberalism would have you arguing around the dinner table over partisan politics and breaking these relationships over who the current president is.

01:36:54.500 That is madness.

01:36:55.760 And yet it's inevitable.

01:36:56.620 We see these, we hear these stories every Thanksgiving, every Christmas.

01:36:59.740 Oh, no, I'm going to have to argue about Trump or Biden.

01:37:01.680 You find it, you find it mostly on the left people that tend to.

01:37:05.840 The most liberal people are the ones who are most prepared to break the relationships, right?

01:37:10.380 And so, okay, we, no, we begin in a society.

01:37:15.880 We begin as social creatures.

01:37:17.420 And we need to think about taking care of the bonds that tie us together.

01:37:21.960 Like, your relationship, the quality of the bond that pins you to your mum, you to your dad, your mum to your dad, you to your siblings, to your children.

01:37:31.120 The quality of that bond is important, right?

01:37:34.260 Whether that person can really feel the connection that you have with that person.

01:37:38.900 So, people are always asking, okay, what does that mean I should do?

01:37:41.200 And so, that means you should really just pick up the phone and give your mum a call, right?

01:37:44.640 Your mum wants to hear from you.

01:37:45.860 That's all it is.

01:37:46.620 That's literally all it is.

01:37:47.760 Give your dad a ring and talk about the game with him.

01:37:49.800 You know, he's probably frustrated, but he'll love to hear from you.

01:37:53.960 And that's it.

01:37:54.700 Give your mates a call.

01:37:55.620 Be like, hey, guys.

01:37:56.640 Because, I mean, so much now, so many times now, I see it where it's like nobody ever comes out on a Saturday night.

01:38:02.660 No one ever comes around.

01:38:03.700 Everyone is always flaky, right?

01:38:05.460 Everyone's always like, oh, yeah, yeah, I'll do it, I'll do it.

01:38:07.380 But then they never turn up.

01:38:08.500 And they make excuses on the day.

01:38:09.840 It's like, oh, I'm just not going to come.

01:38:10.720 No, if you tell your friends you're going to go out for a barbecue or something, just go. 1.00

01:38:14.920 Just get off your ass and bloody go. 1.00

01:38:16.400 It's not that hard. 1.00

01:38:17.520 And they'll feel better.

01:38:18.620 You'll feel better.

01:38:19.260 You'll strengthen your relationship with one another.

01:38:22.040 And you'll realize that you're happy.

01:38:24.060 That's what happiness is.

01:38:25.720 I'm pretty optimistic.

01:38:27.300 I don't know if it's short-term or long-term.

01:38:28.860 It's probably very, very long-term.

01:38:30.060 Because the technology that we've built is killing us.

01:38:35.300 Oh, yeah.

01:38:35.560 The dopamine machine, the mass-patory social machine, the porn machine, so in the literal sense, but also the video games in the figurative sense.

01:38:42.960 But those of strong mental fortitude resist and do what must be done to preserve and maintain.

01:38:48.480 And I don't think in this, you know, in what we're seeing, any one of these liberals are going to be able to defeat natural selection.

01:38:59.180 Oh, yeah.

01:38:59.480 If they don't have kids, if their social order is in chaos, if their rooms are messy and they won't clean them, they're going to fail.

01:39:06.540 So, you know, I made this point because I've been saying for a few months now, a lot of people ask me, what can we do with the election coming up?

01:39:13.520 I don't know what to do.

01:39:14.300 And the obvious answer is register people to vote, focus on your local elections, volunteer, be involved, you know, knock on doors, whatever you have to do, whatever it is you have to do for the political situation.

01:39:24.460 But also don't forget, get fit, eat right, be healthy.

01:39:27.340 If every single person in the United States who was opposed to the woke machine or whatever got fit and did nothing else, the natural consequence will be a tendency towards substantial success.

01:39:41.640 A group of people that live longer, are healthier, can think quicker, move faster.

01:39:46.200 They're less likely to die.

01:39:47.380 They're more likely to solve problems and succeed and take over society than those who are fat, lazy and do nothing.

01:39:52.740 You don't know what you believe until you're capable of defending yourself.

01:39:55.620 Absolutely.

01:39:56.820 So I tell people, just get healthy, be fit, be the best version of yourself you can be.

01:40:00.960 And if everybody did, you succeed.

01:40:03.820 But a part of that really is being a social animal, right?

01:40:07.940 It goes back to Aristotle.

01:40:09.080 You're a man of the polis.

01:40:10.480 You know, you aren't, because I mean, that could be said to the isolated individual in the state of nature and they could follow it, right?

01:40:16.120 But it's totally valid, you know, get fit, get healthy, but not just for yourself, but for other people as well.

01:40:22.180 Right.

01:40:22.500 You know, for the people around you who rely on you.

01:40:24.620 Like, because, you know, your friend might fall over and hurt himself and you might have to carry him a mile on your back to, you know, because of his broken ankle or something.

01:40:31.440 You know, you're not just doing it for you, you're doing it for other people.

01:40:34.160 You know, that's where the real sort of worth of life comes from.

01:40:37.340 When I point that out, it's a simple way to explain, do the mathematic equation of net positive group of people and net negative group of people and run the math in the long run.

01:40:48.240 Compounded interest, where do we end up?

01:40:50.460 Liberals are not having kids.

01:40:51.780 They're not going to have kids.

01:40:52.680 But it's not just about that.

01:40:54.100 The ideology is chaotic and tends towards collapse.

01:40:58.360 And the people on the right, and I agree, classical liberals are, they're probably, I'll put it this way, classical liberals seem to be walking on the treadmill.

01:41:07.840 Liberals seem to be standing still, moving backwards, and conservatives are running forward.

01:41:11.380 Because they want still some wiggle room for unorthodox lifestyle permissions.

01:41:15.380 Right.

01:41:15.500 That's often why.

01:41:16.700 And this is, it's not just the utilitarian calculus.

01:41:19.300 I know you're not just reducing it to that.

01:41:21.100 But the reason people have children isn't because I need to put my part in so that the pensions are paid.

01:41:26.860 It's a very weak argument that some people, even demographers, are making.

01:41:30.500 It's because if they have sincere religious convictions, and this is, I think, where Carl and I differ, and we still haven't hashed this out yet,

01:41:36.420 they have a philosophy of human dignity that is good in its own sake, but also laden with expectations that you should aspire to emulate a divine ideal.

01:41:49.220 It's like the Catholic idea of Imago Dei versus the liberal notion that you are your individual desires,

01:41:56.720 and so you should use technologies to facilitate those desires and decouple choices from consequences to minimize the harm of constantly indulging.

01:42:04.840 It's like, you should be plugged into a renewable-powered experience headset from Rick and Morty at all times.

01:42:11.200 You should be on drugs.

01:42:12.740 You should be gooning. 0.98

01:42:14.040 You should eat whatever you want and then take Ozempic to ensure you aren't fat.

01:42:17.460 And then as soon as your body starts failing you and you can't experience pleasure anymore,

01:42:21.080 step in the suicide booth and exit and be recyclably composted for the good of whatever renewable-powered vegetables or whatever they want to produce.

01:42:29.600 The only thing that stops you from doing all that stuff is having a philosophy of human dignities that says,

01:42:34.200 no, I inherited my body, I have an aspect of something aspirational, akin to the divine,

01:42:41.380 and therefore I have a set of obligations to those people around me and to the ideal that I would like to live up to.

01:42:46.580 And those are the people that are having kids and raising them with the kind of ethics that safeguard them against from the education system

01:42:52.020 that we were talking about that wants to transition them to liberals or the opposite sex.

01:42:55.960 I read a, I read, I was reading a long time ago about how technology is destroying society.

01:43:02.640 And I think my simplified version of the quote is probably better than the actual quote.

01:43:06.860 Carl Schroeder, science fiction author, wrote,

01:43:09.220 The point is, if we do meet extraterrestrials one day, we'll be shaking hands not because we figured out how to avoid nuclear war,

01:43:15.120 but because we figured out how to get along playing Xbox in our spare time.

01:43:19.040 This reflects Schroeder's view on the significance of overcoming social and technological challenges to foster cooperation, etc.

01:43:23.920 My interpretation of this when I initially read it was more about how, I didn't actually read his essay or anything on it.

01:43:32.240 And so what I was, what I was told, the article I was reading was more about how we are drowning ourselves in excess.

01:43:39.540 And that the, the phrase was, if we ever meet aliens, we will shake hands, not because we overcame nuclear weapons,

01:43:45.420 but because we overcame the Xbox.

01:43:48.060 So it's a bit of a different interpretation.

01:43:49.320 I think it's a completely different point to what he was saying.

01:43:51.340 Because my view of that was, we are, we are creating these isolated internal worlds to remove us from harsh reality.

01:43:59.920 And the people who cannot overcome that system will cease to exist.

01:44:04.860 So one, one thing I think is worth looking at is why we can end up getting the things that Phil wants out of the new foundations I'm proposing here, right?

01:44:13.280 Because the, the sort of abstract doctrine of human rights that comes from the state of nature needs to be replaced with something.

01:44:22.020 But it's actually quite easy to see how these things follow.

01:44:25.540 So, for example, you say, okay, well, I'd like freedom.

01:44:28.380 It's like, well, I mean, I assume we're going to define personal freedoms and freedom from state intervention, right?

01:44:34.800 Which is what the original liberal view was.

01:44:36.680 But, yeah, who doesn't want that?

01:44:38.500 We all want that.

01:44:39.320 And we want that for one another.

01:44:41.400 Okay, well, how do you get that?

01:44:43.240 Well, actually, it's community organizing.

01:44:45.680 It's having a strong local community that allows you to create a power block that resists government intervention.

01:44:52.680 An isolated individual can do nothing to resist government power, but a community of people can.

01:44:57.380 So, okay, we can get, we can actually physically get a measure of independence and autonomy from the state by being a strong local community.

01:45:06.340 And then you've got other things.

01:45:07.380 So, well, freedom from oppression or to make sure that a person isn't going without, you know, a person isn't starving to death or anything like that.

01:45:15.500 Again, instead of being reliant upon the state, well, if you've got a strong social network, these people will take care of you.

01:45:21.940 Like, you know, I had to take care of my cousin because he was, you know, he'd found himself homeless for a couple of days.

01:45:27.560 So I personally paid for him to live in a hotel for a couple of nights, right?

01:45:31.800 He could have appealed to the state, but he didn't need to because I love him.

01:45:36.440 You know, I will help him.

01:45:37.920 And this is what being a part of these social networks does.

01:45:40.640 Having a strong society provides us with the sort of independence that we're looking for or the safety, the security, the freedom from injustice that we're also looking for.

01:45:52.340 It doesn't have to be an abstract, rationalistic scheme for a set of rational devils.

01:45:59.320 It could also be for people who love one another.

01:46:01.780 Let me ask you the challenging question.

01:46:04.260 Donald Trump says that if he gets elected, there will be the largest mass deportation effort we've ever seen.

01:46:09.180 A society that needs to function a certain way but is currently beset by such a conflict with mass illegal immigration, how do you remedy that?

01:46:20.580 The proposals are trains, bus, trucks loading people up.

01:46:24.980 Local police, state police are going to do this mass deportation effort.

01:46:29.740 I don't know that that's sustainable, affordable, or possible.

01:46:33.440 I'm not saying it's morally incorrect.

01:46:35.440 The question is how do you do it and how do you maintain your morals?

01:46:38.260 I want to use the UK as a model for this because the UK in 2017 is estimated to have possibly 1.2 million illegal immigrants.

01:46:48.720 And this is before the mass small boat crossing.

01:46:50.360 So let's say it's 2 million now.

01:46:52.660 Let's say that we get a government that isn't so afraid of being called racist and bigoted and the like to actually enforce the law and send these people home.

01:46:59.880 Then you have a large cohort of legal migrants, 1.2 million every year, that have come into the country as merchants.

01:47:08.920 They're economic operators.

01:47:10.360 Not all of them buy into the story that the Brits tell themselves.

01:47:13.600 They tell themselves a different story, an incompatible story, as we saw with the Hindu and Muslim riots in Leicester. 0.99

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01:48:17.280 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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01:48:42.600 Did I mention that we care?

01:48:44.120 Well, how do you get those people to either assimilate or leave?

01:48:49.780 What you do is you withdraw the provisions of the liberal state.

01:48:53.600 You take away and abolish the welfare state.

01:48:56.700 You abolish social housing for migrants.

01:49:00.600 You abolish benefits for migrants.

01:49:02.680 And so the people that are here for purely economic reasons, that don't tell themselves a cultural story, will move elsewhere.

01:49:09.660 And you don't need to fuel up the boats and withdraw people's legal papers in order to do that.

01:49:14.380 And we see this because we already have a net outflow of about 500,000 people every year.

01:49:17.880 That's about 700,000.

01:49:19.080 Is it really that high?

01:49:19.620 It's really high.

01:49:21.140 You know what's fascinating is the U.S. is one million per year.

01:49:23.780 Just a quick thing on Connor's thing, though.

01:49:25.580 He's exactly right.

01:49:26.440 So what that does is it forces the migrants to integrate into the social fabric. 1.00

01:49:32.040 You have to form relationships with the people here because, like my cousin relying on me, well, he's going to have to rely on someone else.

01:49:37.840 The state's not just going to give him my money.

01:49:40.140 You know, if he wants my money, I have to have a reason to give it to him.

01:49:44.380 At the moment, they're clientele classes.

01:49:46.060 This is the analogy I've used with you before.

01:49:48.200 The pre-liberal state was like a Russian nesting doll.

01:49:52.460 So you've got the individual, their family, their congregation, their community, their sense of cultural and historical obligation, and then the nation.

01:50:00.380 If you take all of those out and you just have the individual inside the bigger Russian nesting doll of the state, and you rattle it around, it's going to get broken. 0.99

01:50:05.740 And that's what those communities, like the black community in the U.S., exist as.

01:50:10.020 They exist in a direct relationship with the state, and they aren't self-sufficient,

01:50:13.560 and they're downwardly mobile, and they're not having large families.

01:50:18.260 They are shooting each other, and they are dependent on handouts.

01:50:22.440 And that's not a dignified way to live, actually.

01:50:24.660 It's a really unpleasant way of living.

01:50:26.480 Yeah.

01:50:26.740 So rebuild or encourage they rebuild those concentric circles of relationships and belonging and identity,

01:50:33.520 and you won't just be naked and afraid in the face of state tyranny.

01:50:36.880 And I genuinely am of the opinion that these sort of, like, you know, the sort of random mass shootings that America gets?

01:50:43.060 I think that what these are, ultimately, underneath it, are an expression of revenge against this kind of empty society that has failed them.

01:50:51.160 They've got no one to turn to, no one who they feel that they love, and things like this.

01:50:54.040 So they go, right, okay, I don't know anyone here.

01:50:56.380 I don't have any ties to this.

01:50:57.660 I don't care about this.

01:50:59.140 Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam.

01:50:59.720 And I think that doesn't happen when you have this kind of, not a social contract society, but a familial society where people care about one of them.

01:51:07.860 You know, it's funny when I see a lot of people in comments say things like, who cares about comics or art?

01:51:15.160 There are people who will chat, and they'll say things like, grow up, stop focusing on these things.

01:51:19.900 There's a reason why stories, culture, art have been so important for humans throughout basically every civilization.

01:51:27.300 And there's a reason why conservatives in the U.S. have lost culturally, and the left has been able to gain so much ground.

01:51:32.800 And it's because of this.

01:51:34.060 I have to imagine the people who are saying these things are liberals, masquerading as conservatives trying to destroy the conservative opportunity, you know, at regaining cultural value and power.

01:51:46.080 You need to inspire young people through stories, through myths, and have children want to aspire to be something great.

01:51:53.740 And that's why we are upset when they destroy Star Wars, when they ruin video games, when they ruin movies, because these are things that we produce.

01:52:03.900 Why do we make movies?

01:52:05.560 It's not just about entertainment.

01:52:06.720 It's about something that connects to us.

01:52:08.160 It's about transmission of values.

01:52:09.740 Absolutely.

01:52:10.400 That's what it's about.

01:52:11.400 And there's a reason that they attack Star Wars and Lord of the Rings and all that.

01:52:15.320 There's a reason that they do it.

01:52:16.400 They're trying to subvert and destroy your values.

01:52:18.180 They know that you get your values from the mythology around you.

01:52:22.760 And even if, you know, in the modern day, we think, oh, well, you know, it's just Star Wars.

01:52:26.440 No, it holds the same place for our culture that the Iliad did for the ancient Greeks.

01:52:31.280 You know, this is where we learn right and wrong from.

01:52:34.720 There's a video I love to cite that compares Captain America, the first Captain America movie, with Captain Marvel.

01:52:42.920 Captain Marvel was, people were outraged.

01:52:44.760 They were angry.

01:52:45.320 They complained about it.

01:52:46.060 Captain America, people really loved, made a billion dollars, whatever.

01:52:49.400 A really great example in both movies.

01:52:51.940 In the Captain America movie, you've got, who is it?

01:52:55.740 Steve Rogers.

01:52:56.380 Tommy Lee, the actor.

01:52:57.940 Yes. 0.98

01:52:58.600 Is saying, why'd you pick the scrawny loser guy? 0.97

01:53:01.380 I want a strong, tough guy. 0.98

01:53:02.760 And then he grabs a fake grenade and pulls it and throws it.

01:53:05.360 And then scrawny, weak Steve Rogers jumps on the grenade right away.

01:53:08.580 And the scientist starts laughing like, this is the guy we want.

01:53:12.000 That's, we laugh about that.

01:53:14.600 But the audience related to it.

01:53:16.540 They liked the movie because they understood that this scrawny, weak man with all of these ailments, who, he jumped on a grenade to save everyone's life.

01:53:25.860 This was a movie about a young man who had ailments and was trying to lie to get his way into the military to fight for his country.

01:53:35.600 And it's funny that conservatives don't praise this movie more.

01:53:38.560 I'm like, look at it.

01:53:39.700 Captain Marvel was a woman who accidentally gets superpowers that puts her at the highest level of all galactic beings, making her stronger than everybody. 0.98

01:53:47.960 And a man puts a chip on her to suppress her powers.

01:53:51.540 Her memory specifically.

01:53:52.780 Yes.

01:53:53.200 It's a false consciousness.

01:53:54.360 That's right.

01:53:54.780 Getting back to her authentic identity.

01:53:56.360 And she robs a guy for telling her to smile. 0.99

01:53:59.220 And you were supposed to be like, yeah.

01:54:02.060 And people hated it.

01:54:03.160 Of course, because she's a villain. 1.00

01:54:04.580 Exactly.

01:54:05.220 She's literally the villain. 1.00

01:54:06.420 When this criticism came out, the argument from the film's producers were like, oh, well, it's supposed to be that she doesn't yet realize.

01:54:14.020 No.

01:54:14.660 Women with power would be evil. 1.00

01:54:16.180 When the man on the motorcycle. 0.83

01:54:17.460 That's what they're saying.

01:54:18.140 The man on the motorcycle goes, you should smile more.

01:54:20.600 We know exactly what cultural reference that was making.

01:54:24.000 And then she looks at him.

01:54:25.340 And the next scene is she's wearing his clothes and riding his motorcycle.

01:54:28.420 Meaning, use physical violence against a person who said a naughty word.

01:54:32.000 She grabs his hand and crushes it, doesn't she?

01:54:33.780 The cut scene is her grabbing his wrist, using her superpowers and threatening to break it. 1.00

01:54:37.840 And they're like, oh, it's a Terminator reference.

01:54:39.360 And it's like, no, no, no.

01:54:40.460 The Women of Marvel podcast exists.

01:54:42.500 And before Captain Marvel came out, they were talking about cover art.

01:54:45.740 And they started depicting women doing things.

01:54:48.440 And most of these comics suddenly were about villains.

01:54:51.100 And they said it's because they identify with the villains more than heroes.

01:54:53.860 Because they see the villains as fundamentally flawed and they can personally relate to them.

01:54:57.640 This is all projection by horrendous people who want.

01:55:00.760 And this is why they've contorted heroes from being paragons of virtue to particular ethnic and sexual identity groups that need validation by going on a journey.

01:55:10.900 They basically need the abolition of their screaming conscience.

01:55:13.440 And they need the entire civilization to validate them so that they don't change their perfect as they are.

01:55:17.800 Just a quick thing.

01:55:18.740 I just want to shout out a guy called The Fourth Age.

01:55:21.140 Great guy.

01:55:21.620 On YouTube.

01:55:22.100 A guy called AJ.

01:55:23.160 He's part of the Comicsgate, guys.

01:55:24.720 And he is deeply in the Aristotelian storytelling tradition.

01:55:29.380 And he's got, honestly, he's got hours of videos explaining why heroes are paragons of virtue.

01:55:34.380 What it is we take from that.

01:55:35.660 And why Marvel have done such an evil thing to invert this and make the villain the hero.

01:55:39.580 And Disney.

01:55:40.100 He's superb.

01:55:40.600 Yeah, there's everyone.

01:55:41.440 And all of it.

01:55:41.860 And then you get these conservatives, and not all of them, because a lot of them, obviously, with what The Daily Wire is doing, there's an effort to push back, though they're trying. 0.99

01:55:49.920 The movies suck. 0.98

01:55:50.560 Sorry, they do. 0.96

01:55:51.420 And it's also because, and look, I like Gina Carano very much, but if you frame these movies like Run, Hide, Fight, or Terror on the Prairie as this is our version of the girl boss, you're still operating within the paradigm.

01:56:02.620 I mean, so, sorry to interrupt, but I used to write for the American Spectator.

01:56:05.720 My first column was quite unorthodox.

01:56:07.640 It was complaining about the new Superman.

01:56:09.160 Are you all aware of what happened to Superman in the last couple of years?

01:56:11.660 No.

01:56:12.320 So, Superman, obviously Clark Kent, married to Lois Lane, has a son, upstanding father.

01:56:17.460 He gets taken off the book, and he gets replaced.

01:56:19.640 The writers, which was Peter J. Tomasi and Patrick Gleeson, get replaced by Brian Michael Bendis, the guy who made Miles Morales Spider-Man.

01:56:25.380 And what he does is he sends Superman's teenage son, John Kent, off into space and instantly ages him up.

01:56:30.040 So, taking away his development arc.

01:56:31.720 So, he becomes an adult.

01:56:32.800 He comes back. 0.86

01:56:33.720 Then, in this new five generations initiative, where Batman becomes black, Wonder Woman's a bisexual Brazilian, Superman's son becomes gay. 0.84

01:56:40.980 He has a pink-haired Asian boyfriend who looks up to Lois Lane, and he goes on school climate strikes, and he fights social injustice.

01:56:48.460 As you can imagine, the book tanked.

01:56:50.300 But what are they saying with that?

01:56:51.540 They are saying that now, Superman is no longer defined by his deeds and his relationships.

01:56:55.820 He's defined by his identity characteristics.

01:56:57.920 What identity characteristics do we say are powerful?

01:57:00.580 Well, the writer Tom Taylor said, we have this young, bisexual guy being confident in himself.

01:57:04.700 It's so heroic.

01:57:05.640 Right.

01:57:06.200 So, you have to be these minority groups to be a hero. 1.00

01:57:08.700 So, that is indicting the white male population, the reading population, that has been the custodians of these characters and have bought these characters to provide these new, conceited writers a career.

01:57:18.540 You are the villains.

01:57:19.380 You are akin to Lex Luthor.

01:57:20.640 And so, now, identity characteristics are the defining feature of virtue, and no wonder the audience is dropping it and seeking other things.

01:57:27.220 Just to stress, conservatives want to make a movie right.

01:57:30.800 I don't understand why there wasn't universal acclaim across the board from every conservative for Captain America.

01:57:35.360 To stress one more time, a guy, the hero of the story, is trying to join the army, and he can't because he's got, you know, flat feet, small, and disorders, and he's lying to try and join the army.

01:57:49.140 He jumps on the grenade, becomes Captain America fighting the Nazis. 0.82

01:57:54.060 We hear a lot of complaints about it, but that's a story that, just one real quick point.

01:57:58.620 To these people who nay-say culture and they say grow up, we tell stories of superheroes, just like you said, the stories of the gods and fighting the gods and all these things were what we used to instill values in our next generation.

01:58:10.840 Yeah, 100%.

01:58:11.540 I mean, one of the things that drives me crazy about the Daily Wire in particular is that they've got all of these resources and they're producing not great things because they're thinking about the left, right?

01:58:24.260 They're thinking consciously about the left, and that's not how conservatives tell great stories.

01:58:28.720 That's not how Tolkien told Lord of the Rings, right?

01:58:31.660 That's my point about Captain America.

01:58:32.780 Yeah, exactly.

01:58:33.540 It's nothing to do with the left.

01:58:34.660 What it's about is what are your authentic values and how could they manifest in a good story, in a good way?

01:58:39.540 And so, I mean, it's a great point.

01:58:40.740 There's a deeply conservative message.

01:58:42.780 You know, this young patriot is going to, okay, you know, lying's not great, but you can see why he's doing it.

01:58:47.700 He's doing the right thing.

01:58:48.860 You know, he's trying to do the right thing, and he's being held back by something he can't change.

01:58:52.320 And he ends up getting to where he wants to be, and he becomes Captain America.

01:58:55.220 Like, the conservative, like the Daily Wire, they're like, okay, now we're going to produce Mr. Bertram or something.

01:59:00.160 It's like, what are you doing?

01:59:01.520 Just don't think about the left.

01:59:02.740 Think about what you are and the message you're trying to put across and the hurdles that person has to go through that don't have anything to do with the left-wingers.

01:59:10.020 Have you seen the new norm?

01:59:11.340 Yeah, it looks terrible.

01:59:12.080 And it's millions of views, and they're like, ha-ha, look how many views we got.

01:59:15.760 It's like, yeah, because everyone hates it.

01:59:16.900 Yeah, everyone was talking about it.

01:59:18.060 My suggestion was, you know, because for those that haven't seen it, it's this mini-pilot for, they call it the South Park of X.

01:59:24.640 It's certainly not.

01:59:25.660 It's just basically the whole pilot is going, hey, here's a woke thing that happened.

01:59:30.380 Look at that woke thing that happened. 0.86

01:59:30.980 Isn't that silly? 0.95

01:59:32.160 It's like, yeah, yeah.

01:59:32.920 I thought the way the show would work better is, or way a show could work if you're trying to do a family-style sitcom that incorporates these issues is, their neighbor is woke, and they're friends with their neighbor.

01:59:43.300 Yeah.

01:59:43.580 And that's a vehicle for which jokes can derive, and the family's perception of it when they do happen is to roll their eyes.

01:59:50.180 And so you have a normal family engaging in normal family behaviors, normal family circumstances.

01:59:55.400 The son wants to join the military.

01:59:57.320 The daughter is concerned about what that could mean.

01:59:59.900 You have conservative, I mean, you look at—

02:00:01.880 Yeah, that's good framing.

02:00:02.920 And then their neighbor is some woke woman, and they're friends with her, and they're like, well, don't say that around Tammy, because you know what she's going to—

02:00:09.300 And then they laugh, and what that does is it otherizes the woke without being too overt. 0.91

02:00:14.480 It makes them the silly, oh, another wacky woke person.

02:00:17.300 Basically the inverse to what the Simpsons did to Flanders. 0.97

02:00:19.760 Yep.

02:00:20.080 Yeah, yeah.

02:00:20.540 Exactly.

02:00:21.640 So everybody's got the crazy woke friend, and you don't want—it's so over the top when the woke guy comes in and has got a phone, and he's like,

02:00:31.160 I'm trying to secretly destroy their lives, and it's like, come on.

02:00:35.120 It's the inverse of what happened with Barbie, actually, where Barbie tried to be an overtly woke and feminist film and ended up being an accidentally reaction. 0.97

02:00:42.580 Or Starship Troopers.

02:00:44.120 Yeah.

02:00:44.320 They tried to make it to be like they're Nazis and evil, but—

02:00:48.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:00:48.220 And everyone was like, hey, they're good guys.

02:00:49.540 What are you talking about defending humanity from a genocidal communist scourge?

02:00:53.920 That attacked them for no reason.

02:00:54.960 Yeah, exactly.

02:00:55.540 But the—what is it?

02:00:56.400 The film's director wanted to make them out to be the Nazis, so he dressed them in that outfit. 0.89

02:01:00.760 He didn't read the book, apparently, did he?

02:01:02.320 No, he didn't read the book, no.

02:01:03.720 He got someone else to read the book for him, which is insanely lazy.

02:01:07.800 It's not even a thick book, you know.

02:01:09.180 It's quite—it doesn't take long to read it.

02:01:11.380 And it's a good book as well, but he's a communist singer.

02:01:14.720 But, yeah, no, the conservatives really—they need to think about what virtues they want to demonstrate, right?

02:01:20.920 So if you want to demonstrate, you know, insane courage in the face of unbelievable odds in a sort of Lord of the Rings-style movie, do that, you know.

02:01:32.420 But don't think, how does this, you know, reflect on us against the left and things like that.

02:01:39.060 Don't worry about them.

02:01:39.720 You know, just write something that demonstrates the virtue you're trying to instill into the person watching.

02:01:45.540 Dork Tanny in a super chat saying, Captain America came out in 2011, Tim.

02:01:48.820 Sargon wasn't even criticizing Sarkeesian yet.

02:01:51.160 That is true, but—

02:01:52.060 But that's also part of the point.

02:01:53.880 Yeah.

02:01:54.420 We—this is where the criticism starts to come from.

02:01:57.420 We had a movie where we all watched it, and we felt so good when the premise of the story was this man of little physical merit, but of strong moral virtue.

02:02:09.380 His moral virtue was so strong, he was chosen to be given super soldier serum.

02:02:14.840 And the message—the point of the story was the most important thing about him was not whether he could do push-ups or pull-ups or run far.

02:02:25.300 It was that he was a good person of good moral virtue.

02:02:28.700 That's the message we're giving to kids.

02:02:30.560 Yeah. 0.69

02:02:30.920 Even if you're scrawny and weak, be like Steve Rogers.

02:02:33.700 Within only a few years begins the rise of the destruction of that narrative and this mission.

02:02:40.860 And hey, guess what?

02:02:41.600 It's funny now.

02:02:42.320 Because they went from making a billion dollars per movie to now their movies are slowly starting to fizzle out and tank, burn their budgets, etc.

02:02:49.820 They get what they deserve as far as I'm concerned.

02:02:52.200 If you're going to—again, AJ from The Fourth Age is just superb on this.

02:02:55.980 There are timeless mechanisms to get the messages across.

02:03:00.960 And if you're going to subvert them, then people won't—not necessarily consciously realize it.

02:03:05.420 They just won't enjoy it.

02:03:06.720 They'll just be like, no, I don't relate to this.

02:03:08.060 That's not what I view to be a good person.

02:03:09.740 My other thing I must say as well is that I fear we stray too much into the conversation of values here as well.

02:03:17.740 Identity is also an aspect that we must recognize.

02:03:21.000 And I refer to Josh Hawley versus J.D. Vance's speeches this week.

02:03:25.600 Josh Hawley positions America as essentially a nation of ideals, even if those ideals are Christian and therefore true in his heart and mind. 0.91

02:03:33.840 Whereas J.D. Vance says it's not just Christianity that makes America.

02:03:36.860 It's not just these abstract commitments to freedom and equality.

02:03:39.300 It's a people and a shared lineage.

02:03:41.620 And this is what they mean by representation matters, is that they—the progressives identify that tribalism does in fact matter.

02:03:49.380 And yes, you can marry into and assimilate with the tribe, but a home ceases to be a home when the hosts are outnumbered by the house guests.

02:04:00.420 Yep.

02:04:00.740 In terms of raw demographics or in terms of being salient in their own media.

02:04:06.380 And so you do have to have, as Nigeria bans us from its adverts, a bit far, you know, but you do have to have a—you have to abolish the sort of consciousness that says we must have arbitrary quotas and forefront minoritarian concerns in all these movies just to make everyone feel seen and represented.

02:04:25.040 It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

02:04:26.720 The people that formulated these values need to be respected too, and they are who is going to sustain them.

02:04:32.500 I do think one challenge too, which we didn't get into a whole lot, but has been a big issue, is cultural stagnation.

02:04:37.640 The fact that we're talking about Captain America right now is even kind of funny.

02:04:41.260 Sure, I like the message of the movie, but when was that character made?

02:04:44.400 It's the Second World War.

02:04:45.560 It all originates from the Second World War.

02:04:47.600 But what we've been doing right now, we've got Deadpool and Wolverine is coming out in a couple weeks, and it's just regurgitating characters that were made a long time ago.

02:04:58.940 Logan was meant to have ended Wolverine in 2017.

02:05:01.700 Right.

02:05:02.040 I'm sure, look, Ryan Reynolds and Hugh Jackman wanted to make a movie and everyone wants to see it, but I'm not excited for it because it felt that that chapter of life was over and that they're constantly recycling.

02:05:11.540 There was a fourth Matrix film.

02:05:13.540 Exactly.

02:05:14.420 The first one was great.

02:05:16.100 Second and third were terrible.

02:05:17.160 I actually enjoyed the fourth Matrix movie, but from a meta perspective.

02:05:20.620 It was based.

02:05:21.480 Yeah, it was literally them saying, look, we're trapped in our own franchise.

02:05:25.960 And if you think about it, like, no, no, it really was because like Neo was the video game creator of the Matrix video game in it.

02:05:32.660 And you got to see his life where he just gets up, he's in a glass steel, you know, building, and he's just in a focus group.

02:05:40.520 And you realize, look, where is he going to get inspiration from?

02:05:43.420 Like he never does anything.

02:05:44.820 But also the overall message of the fourth Matrix.

02:05:49.380 Do you remember what it was?

02:05:51.020 The society cannot function without a mother and a father.

02:05:53.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:05:54.120 Yeah.

02:05:54.380 It was very, like, anti-progressive.

02:05:57.180 I know.

02:05:57.720 It was great.

02:05:58.480 Well, really.

02:05:59.400 Which is funny for being made by the Wachowski sisters. 0.98

02:06:01.620 Yeah, but the message was the Matrix itself, the conscious function of the universe and the minds of everyone will collapse unless there is a patriarch and a matriarch. 0.99

02:06:10.840 Yeah, yeah.

02:06:11.160 With Trinity and Neo flying around together at the end.

02:06:13.560 Yeah.

02:06:13.700 But the whole thing I thought was fascinating because what it looked like to me was a look into the Wachowski's just daily life.

02:06:21.160 It's like, what do we do?

02:06:22.180 We get up, we go to a coffee shop, we go to a focus meeting, we talk about, you know, the thing that we have already created.

02:06:28.420 But we're constantly getting smaller and smaller and smaller in that thing.

02:06:31.960 Because, I mean, this is why George Lucas and the Star Wars prequels have aged so well.

02:06:37.120 Because what they did is built outwards.

02:06:38.880 Okay, he told the story poorly.

02:06:40.460 There are lots of criticisms.

02:06:41.680 But at least the world got bigger from him doing that rather than everything now is smaller and smaller and smaller.

02:06:46.800 So, you know, everything feels like there's nothing left to tell in that little universe.

02:06:51.900 And this is why I quite enjoyed the fourth Matrix.

02:06:54.200 Not because it was good, but because it was kind of admitting this, being like, yeah, no, we're trapped in this and we've got nowhere else to go.

02:07:01.200 Now you've got The Acolyte, which...

02:07:03.680 I haven't even watched it.

02:07:04.400 Yeah, I don't care.

02:07:06.200 You know, it's kind of wild.

02:07:07.420 I was a huge fan of the MCU for a long time.

02:07:10.140 And then I think it's around, like, Captain Marvel.

02:07:13.440 I'm starting to care less and less.

02:07:16.320 Infinity War was fantastic.

02:07:17.760 Endgame was okay.

02:07:18.740 Black Panther was appalling.

02:07:20.560 Black Panther was appalling?

02:07:21.740 Yes.

02:07:22.120 It's one of the worst films I've made.

02:07:23.020 You think it was...

02:07:23.900 I don't know.

02:07:24.200 I disagree.

02:07:24.440 We've done a very long breakdown on it.

02:07:27.300 I thought Black Panther was based AF.

02:07:29.400 It wasn't based at all.

02:07:30.300 You do realize that Chadwick Boseman identified more with Killmonger than he did his own character.

02:07:35.540 I didn't say Black Panther was a good guy. 0.99

02:07:36.980 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

02:07:38.520 I'm saying that the movie created...

02:07:40.900 Told the story to the American people about the idea of ethno-nationalism and isolated borders and ethno-supremacy on an international scale. 0.86

02:07:47.920 Yeah, but it's only good for black people. 1.00

02:07:49.400 That was the underlying thing. 0.98

02:07:50.680 And it would just be great if all of these white people would stop incurring on Wakanda's borders because this magic space rock arrived. 0.99

02:07:57.420 Somehow giving us spaceships when the Roman Republic was exploring the continent, it would have just been fine.

02:08:02.740 The idea of creating this mythos of Wakanda and vibranium is less relevant to me than T'Challa, who's supposed to be the good guy, saying,

02:08:13.600 we will not open our borders because those refugees will bring their problems into our country. 1.00

02:08:17.500 And I started laughing my ass off. 0.96

02:08:18.800 Also, we're not going to have a woman in charge. 1.00

02:08:20.680 Yeah, but then his arc was undoing all of that.

02:08:27.680 His arc was, at the end, living up to Killmonger's promise and going and giving Wakandan technology to kids in Oakland because he realized the original sin of Wakanda was not actually defending its African neighbors from the excitement. 0.81

02:08:37.240 Now, hold on.

02:08:39.340 I think there's a misalignment.

02:08:43.460 I think you're looking at it more so that T'Challa being the good guy, the end result is the message they want to deliver.

02:08:49.360 However, I'm saying the movie presented ideas in ways that Americans typically don't engage with, right?

02:08:56.700 And regardless of whether T'Challa fulfilled the promise of Killmonger or whatever, you had the arguments of ethno-nationalism and, you know, isolationism, et cetera.

02:09:08.280 But I'm just saying I like that the movie presented these arguments, whatever the outcome may be.

02:09:14.040 And then I will stress Black Panther 2 was a little too-based, and I shouldn't use the word based.

02:09:19.400 Have you seen Black Panther 2?

02:09:20.600 Unfortunately, yes.

02:09:21.840 Have you?

02:09:22.060 You've not?

02:09:22.540 No, I don't think so.

02:09:23.100 Never watched it.

02:09:23.580 Okay, well, are you kidding?

02:09:25.820 Carl, you have to watch this.

02:09:27.000 Really?

02:09:27.460 Yes.

02:09:27.980 Watch mine and Harry's review because it's much shorter.

02:09:30.920 Wakanda.

02:09:31.700 Yeah.

02:09:31.820 Wakanda.

02:09:32.300 It's the secret, isolated nation with borders and barriers.

02:09:35.520 They don't want people coming in.

02:09:36.400 They start to change in the world, but they still have their mass fortification, and they have barrier controls.

02:09:41.380 You can't just come into Wakanda.

02:09:42.820 However, one day, the queen is attacked by some Mexicans. 0.99

02:09:48.660 I'm not kidding.

02:09:49.720 And how did they get into Wakanda?

02:09:51.960 Through the southern border?

02:09:53.960 Try again, try again.

02:09:55.040 I don't know.

02:09:55.600 Through the river.

02:09:56.360 Oh, right.

02:09:56.760 They go into the river underneath the barrier to come into Wakanda.

02:10:00.000 And the villain, who is Namor, I believe it was right, Namor, right? 0.60

02:10:04.960 And he has one weakness.

02:10:06.400 And do you know how they defeat Namor?

02:10:09.860 They dry off his back.

02:10:13.660 Okay.

02:10:14.560 They discover that Namor's power comes from his ability to oxidize water on his skin.

02:10:20.300 And so while he's fighting, I believe he's fighting the sister or whatever.

02:10:24.180 Shuri.

02:10:25.560 Someone activates the jet, which blasts his back, drying the water off because his back

02:10:31.680 is wet.

02:10:32.620 And he got into Wakanda through their river, and he's Mexican. 1.00

02:10:35.440 Yeah.

02:10:35.680 So this is literally just a weird racial thing against Mexicans.

02:10:39.180 Also, I was like, well... 0.99

02:10:41.300 All the black people can't swim. 1.00

02:10:42.440 This is all because of, like... 1.00

02:10:45.000 It's the weirdest thing ever. 0.86

02:10:45.920 These movies are nuts. 0.81

02:10:46.980 Well, it's mad. 0.73

02:10:47.720 The thing is, it's all...

02:10:48.660 Like, I think that it actually does stem back to CRT.

02:10:51.760 Like, critical race theory makes people aware of racial differences.

02:10:56.900 It makes them cognitively aware of them and stuff.

02:10:59.020 And so people can't help but fall back onto stereotypes.

02:11:03.400 It's not good.

02:11:04.500 Wait, wait.

02:11:05.220 There's no stereotype of Mexicans becoming weak by getting dried off.

02:11:10.020 What?

02:11:10.640 The stereotype...

02:11:11.580 The stereotype is...

02:11:12.760 Or the racial stereotypes is the...

02:11:15.800 Going through the river.

02:11:16.740 Yeah.

02:11:17.100 And having a wet back.

02:11:18.860 I can't believe they did that.

02:11:19.960 Yes.

02:11:20.160 But it exposes inherent racism that people think is acceptable

02:11:28.480 because it is towards the right people and not against the wrong people.

02:11:33.660 But the accusation and the right people, not the wrong people here,

02:11:36.620 the framing of it is these countries would just have been fine

02:11:39.920 experimenting with their incredible technology

02:11:42.200 if the white man hadn't set them at odds,

02:11:44.200 if the Spanish hadn't come and colonized Latin America,

02:11:47.720 if all of enslavement hadn't caused Wakanda to become an isolationist nation. 0.73

02:11:52.720 And so it comes back to, fundamentally, we're all the same underneath.

02:11:55.960 It's just oppressive white European culture that is keeping us divided. 0.94

02:11:59.960 I disagree.

02:12:00.460 I mean, the story of Wakanda was that when the Vibranium Meteor landed

02:12:03.460 and this strange metal rapidly advanced this people,

02:12:07.180 they immediately secured their wealth, isolated themselves from everyone else,

02:12:11.180 and only the tribes that were around it came to an agreement

02:12:14.200 as to how they would manage the Vibranium.

02:12:16.460 They immediately said, 0.99

02:12:17.380 To hell with all the rest of you. 1.00

02:12:19.020 It's ours and built walls. 0.99

02:12:20.880 But in the opening thing, they depict specifically the Romans

02:12:24.300 and the European colonizers.

02:12:26.480 In the second one, they depict the Spanish-

02:12:27.940 Right, right, right.

02:12:28.260 In all of the interviews, they're saying that, yes,

02:12:31.680 Namor and all of the underwater Mexicans were meant to be analogous. 0.99

02:12:35.080 Yes, but there's a continuity here.

02:12:37.380 Killmonger was meant to be a sympathetic villain

02:12:38.940 because he blames wanting to cause white genocide on slavery.

02:12:42.060 And then Namor is meant to be analogous to all of those displaced Mexicans 0.95

02:12:46.820 who the U.S. has transgressed against and made militant.

02:12:50.400 So the enemy is still white people in the minds of the creators. 0.54

02:12:53.600 Or like the colonialist, you know, historical European- 0.85

02:13:00.780 Yeah, white people.

02:13:01.720 Capital W, white people. 0.94

02:13:02.620 That's how Americans think of white people.

02:13:04.500 But I'll just stress, I'm sitting in the movie theater

02:13:08.000 and the first thing that happens is they're like,

02:13:10.560 how did they get into Wakanda through the barrier?

02:13:12.780 And it's like, they went through the river.

02:13:14.180 I was like, are you kidding me?

02:13:15.340 They play the bongo drums to open the-

02:13:17.280 Right, yeah.

02:13:18.120 There were favelas built into the side of the-

02:13:20.240 They play bongos.

02:13:21.500 The roads are made of dirt.

02:13:22.560 I can't believe how racist these movies are.

02:13:24.560 You are right.

02:13:25.600 It's all super racist.

02:13:26.980 And then at the end of the film is that T'Challa, 0.96

02:13:30.020 Black Panther, is an absent dad.

02:13:31.560 Yeah.

02:13:32.460 Like he sighs his hair and then leaves.

02:13:34.260 They legit are playing-

02:13:35.620 I don't know if they're bongos.

02:13:37.420 They're like underwater bongos, yeah, to open the gate.

02:13:39.980 Wait, it's-

02:13:41.560 There's a bit of water and then they're literally,

02:13:43.720 they're drumming it and then that's how the gate works.

02:13:45.140 But it's not underwater, it's Wakanda bangs drums. 0.56

02:13:47.320 Yeah, yeah, but there's water in the dish

02:13:48.920 when they bang the-

02:13:49.740 Right, yeah.

02:13:50.280 And then at the end, I could not believe it

02:13:53.740 when they were like, how is Namor so strong?

02:13:56.140 He's flying around, he's got wings on his feet.

02:13:59.360 And, because that's from Namor.

02:14:00.740 And then they were like, his skin, 0.56

02:14:02.640 it can oxidize the water.

02:14:04.740 So he's effectively breathing at a high rate.

02:14:07.120 We need to dry him off.

02:14:08.540 So they literally, he's standing there

02:14:10.820 and like, sure, he jumps over him

02:14:11.880 and then presses a button

02:14:12.780 and then the jet blasts him in the back.

02:14:14.720 And he goes, ah!

02:14:15.400 And then it shows his back with the steam coming off

02:14:17.720 and it's singed and he's like, ah!

02:14:19.160 And then he falls down and he's been defeated

02:14:20.740 because his wet back is now dry.

02:14:22.440 That is terrible.

02:14:24.400 That is terrible.

02:14:25.780 And I'm just like, yo,

02:14:28.120 my final thoughts on everything to wrap up that idea is-

02:14:31.580 Liberalism is in fact to blame for this, yes.

02:14:33.400 Well, it's that a lot of people think

02:14:35.700 Michelle Obama will be brought in to replace Biden.

02:14:38.200 But I don't think people,

02:14:40.580 this idea is coming from conservatives

02:14:42.740 because conservatives aren't racist.

02:14:44.760 They're not thinking about the perspective,

02:14:47.260 they're viewing the world from their own minds.

02:14:49.060 Michelle Obama is a celebrity.

02:14:50.200 She's the wife of Barack Obama. 0.82

02:14:51.440 He won before.

02:14:52.780 She's a strong candidate to beat Trump. 0.99

02:14:55.200 Meritorious.

02:14:55.700 And what they're not realizing

02:14:56.740 is that Democrats are going,

02:14:58.500 Democrat, older Democrat voters 0.83

02:14:59.900 are way too racist to vote for Michelle Obama. 0.97

02:15:02.320 Probably true, yeah.

02:15:03.160 That's why Barack Obama, when he ran,

02:15:04.680 they put Joe Biden on the ticket.

02:15:06.000 They explicitly stated this.

02:15:07.500 This was a huge talking point.

02:15:09.180 They say, but why,

02:15:10.200 but we've never had a black president before.

02:15:11.960 Will Americans go for it?

02:15:13.180 And they're like, well, with Joe Biden as VP,

02:15:14.960 that will probably, you know,

02:15:16.500 calm many of these older voters down.

02:15:18.780 It's not Republicans who think that way.

02:15:20.200 It's never been.

02:15:21.460 Republicans are like,

02:15:22.780 ooh, she's really popular.

02:15:24.040 Yeah, right.

02:15:24.820 Older Democrats are going to be like 1.00

02:15:26.520 a woman and a black woman. 0.98

02:15:28.140 I'm certainly not going to vote for that.

02:15:29.660 Younger progressives-

02:15:30.620 Like trans women? 1.00

02:15:31.580 Check out, Jackie.

02:15:33.200 But younger progressives would.

02:15:34.760 And so ultimately,

02:15:35.580 to wrap up all these ideas

02:15:36.540 before we wrap up,

02:15:37.700 is just the reason why you end up

02:15:39.660 with Black Panther 0.99

02:15:40.340 as ridiculously racist as it is, 0.98

02:15:42.320 is because it's made by 1.00

02:15:43.400 affluent white female liberals. 0.97

02:15:44.780 Yeah. 0.99

02:15:45.100 And they are racist.

02:15:45.980 Yeah. 1.00

02:15:46.620 They are awful.

02:15:47.840 The conceit of liberalism

02:15:49.260 is that it's value neutral.

02:15:50.480 And no, nature appores a vacuum.

02:15:52.120 Someone's personal temperament,

02:15:53.460 per Jonathan Haidt,

02:15:54.220 will rush in and fill that vacuum.

02:15:55.540 And sometimes that temperament is racism.

02:15:58.040 Gentlemen,

02:15:58.480 this has been a fun

02:15:59.440 and fascinating discussion.

02:16:00.660 As we wrap up,

02:16:01.440 do you want to shout anything out?

02:16:02.660 Yeah, just come check us out

02:16:04.140 at LotusEats.com.

02:16:05.280 Follow us on YouTube,

02:16:06.200 podcast The Lotus Eaters.

02:16:07.620 And follow myself,

02:16:08.760 Saganocad,

02:16:09.460 on Twitter.

02:16:10.280 Yep.

02:16:10.500 I'm Twitter,

02:16:11.720 ex,

02:16:12.580 at con underscore Tomlinson.

02:16:14.160 I also co-host

02:16:14.940 on the new Culture Forum now,

02:16:16.420 deprogrammed,

02:16:17.600 right for the European Conservative

02:16:18.960 and the Critic,

02:16:19.580 new article out today.

02:16:20.380 Thank you very much

02:16:20.960 for having us, gents.

02:16:22.000 I am Phil that remains on Twix.

02:16:23.680 I am Phil that remains official

02:16:24.880 on Instagram.

02:16:25.520 The band is all that remains.

02:16:26.480 You can catch us this summer

02:16:27.360 on the Destroy All Enemies tour

02:16:28.980 with Megadeth and Mudvane.

02:16:30.820 It starts August 2nd,

02:16:31.960 goes through till September 28th.

02:16:34.720 We have a new video out.

02:16:36.000 The video is called,

02:16:36.720 the song is called Let's You Go.

02:16:37.780 You can check it out

02:16:38.360 on Apple Music,

02:16:39.080 like Pandora, Spotify,

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02:16:42.620 Deezer, YouTube,

02:16:44.240 you know, the internet.

02:16:44.920 The internet.

02:16:45.540 The internet.

02:16:46.300 Holy.

02:16:47.480 And I will be away

02:16:49.840 for the next two months.

02:16:50.840 I start rehearsals,

02:16:51.520 so I will see you guys again

02:16:52.620 in October.

02:16:54.360 And I love you all.

02:16:56.280 So cheers.

02:16:56.920 Don't forget,

02:16:57.300 the left lane is for crying.

02:16:58.660 Make sure you subscribe

02:16:59.440 to this channel,

02:17:00.460 Tenet Media on YouTube

02:17:01.360 every Friday morning.

02:17:02.360 We've got more episodes next week.

02:17:04.300 The plan so far is

02:17:05.340 I'll be hanging out

02:17:06.000 with Jeremy from The Quartering.

02:17:07.040 We're going to be talking about

02:17:07.960 all of these movies

02:17:08.840 Star Wars cultural mythos

02:17:10.700 and things like this

02:17:11.360 and why it's all breaking down.

02:17:12.460 So I'm really excited for that.

02:17:13.320 We'll be in Milwaukee

02:17:13.840 for the RNC.

02:17:14.740 We're back tonight

02:17:15.540 at 8 p.m.

02:17:16.500 at youtube.com

02:17:17.280 slash timcast IRL.

02:17:18.660 Thanks for hanging out

02:17:19.300 and we will see you all then.

02:17:38.840 We'll see you all then.

02:17:49.360 We'll see you all then.

02:17:50.600 We'll see you all then.

02:17:51.220 Delicious, convenient,

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The Culture War - Tim Pool - July 12, 2024

The Culture War #72 The End Of Liberalism With Carl Benjamin, Connor Tomlinson

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