In South Africa, it s well known that there s serious crime, with private security becoming increasingly concerned about the escalating crime in this country. This week, we re joined by journalist Ernst Rutz, author Laura Logan, and producer Tessa Tate to talk about the growing problem of farm killings in South Africa.
00:00:23.320I guess they're targeting the wealthy areas of Los Angeles, namely, like, I don't know, Malibu and Brentwood and stuff like this.
00:00:30.320But wealthy people are becoming increasingly concerned about the escalating crime in this country.
00:00:34.480And I think it was either maybe Mary was making the joke that soon we're going to have to have these big private security fences and apps for security.
00:00:41.500And I was like, you mean like in South Africa?
00:00:43.580To which Serge nods and laughs because that's where he's from.
00:00:46.800And so this subject, it's well known that in South Africa there's serious crime, there's private security as an attempted solution to this, that people have gates and security inside of their own homes.
00:00:58.240Because even after your house gets broken into, you've got to go flee somewhere else or sleep in a secure cage.
00:22:21.920Free men from British colonies would go there.
00:22:24.380Well, so the reason I bring that up is online the conversation will go into this racial direction of if Liberia has the American constitution in form of government but is devolved this way, it must be race.
00:22:36.040But I ask you about these countries neighboring South Africa to the north.
00:22:40.760You say you're much, much safer but have, I imagine, like the same ethnic composition, largely majority black.
00:22:48.220So there clearly is a political problem in South Africa that has resulted in this expansion and explosion of crime.
00:22:53.540I think you nailed it when you said it's the Marxist takeover.
00:23:11.400And I'm happy you mentioned Liberia as an example because you can have two countries with the exact same constitution and one would be a great success and one would be a spectacular failure.
00:23:20.700And that's also the thing with South Africa.
00:23:22.860When the South African constitution was adopted in 1996 and the transition happened in 1994, it was globally celebrated as now it's going to be a free country and so forth.
00:23:33.240And the constitution was hailed as people called it the most liberal, most democratic, most modern, most progressive constitution, all these buzzwords.
00:23:43.100But then the assumption was if you have a great constitution, you can just put it on a country and it would be a great country.
00:23:49.040But there are other factors that determine whether the country would be a success.
00:23:52.820And one of it is demographic makeup, not so much black or white, but just how homogenous is the country as opposed to how diverse is it.
00:24:04.880And a nation that is inhabited by a variety of nations naturally tends or leads to differences of opinion on matters of constitutionalism, how to interpret the constitution and so forth.
00:24:17.460Another factor is the fact that it's very big.
00:24:20.940It's a very big country, but it's very centralized.
00:24:24.400And then those in power in South Africa have been very actively, they have the strategy, they call it the national democratic revolution, which essentially means pretend that you are a liberal democrat, but be a communist sort of behind the scenes and try and use multi-party liberal democracy as a way of promoting communism.
00:24:44.720And that's exactly what they have been doing.
00:24:46.260And they have publicly said that they write policy documents and they would explain in order for us to implement our communist agenda in South Africa, we need to create the perception that we are actually liberals.
00:24:58.000And it's all written down in their policy documents.
00:25:01.140And yes, it's undoubtedly a big Marxist experiment, but it's also, as Laura said, sort of an open society experiment.
00:25:16.320I mean, it has this, the same system that we have in the United States.
00:25:18.880Well, it's, it's, I'm at risk to answer because I don't live there, but there's a Kenyan philosopher, Ali Mazrui, who wrote about this, who said that he wrote about the differences between Africa and the West.
00:25:35.760And he was obviously on the side of Africa, but he was very concerned about Africa not developing.
00:25:41.900And one thing he mentioned was that Africa took the wrong lessons from the West in the sense that it took the consumerism, but it didn't take the entrepreneurial spirit from the West.
00:25:53.360Another concern he says is that what he's concerned about in Africa is that one of the big differences is people in the West see a problem and they want to fix it.
00:26:02.820And he says, what he observes in Africa is people see a problem and then they live with it.
00:26:07.280And I think he mentioned, he mentioned the example of a roof that leaks.
00:26:13.800When you're in a house and your roof start leaking, you can either fix it or you can put a bucket under the roof, under the leak.
00:26:19.320And he was sort of making the plea that don't put a bucket under the leak, fix the leak instead of just living with it.
00:26:38.160So, you know, I live in Texas and there's a lot of families that inherit ranches in Texas that inherit wealth.
00:26:44.640And what you find in a lot of those families with inherited wealth is that people don't do that well because things, because they are given to them.
00:26:54.320So, in a way, to me, Africa is a little bit like that.
00:26:57.580If you look at the Democratic Republic of Congo, they have the highest concentration of mineral, rare earth minerals of anywhere in the world.
00:27:05.360Yet 80% of the population lives on less than a dollar a day.
00:27:08.680So, Africa was blessed when it was created as being, you know, some of the richest soil.
00:27:17.900And as a result, it has been plundered.
00:27:21.260And when you look at countries like Nigeria, where the British went in and divided the country, where the country is divided, Muslim, North, Christian, South.
00:27:29.380The contrary to what you read online, the colonial powers often let those differences continue to exist because out of that conflict, it was easier to plunder resources.
00:27:40.180And as someone who covered many wars in Africa over the last three, going on four decades, what you will actually find in a lot of these wars, before the war is even over, Canadian companies, mining companies, British companies, American companies, French companies, Italian companies,
00:27:56.080they will be in there on the ground making their deals before anything is done.
00:28:00.560So, what is driving a lot of these conflict is greed and control of natural resources.
00:28:06.220This whole war with the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party, and the United States is playing out all across Africa, where China has gone and under the Belt and Road program has taken over airports and harbors.
00:28:20.100China has brought cheap money in there, and they have sold projects to African governments that they believe are in keeping with their stature, but which they neither need nor can afford.
00:28:31.060And when they default on those loans, China takes all that critical infrastructure.
00:28:35.160So, you have that part of the Marxist takeover that's happening.
00:28:38.160And then, just the other part of it is, to add to what your Kenyan philosopher was saying, look at all of the organizations across the West and in this country, from USAID to World Economic, to the WWO, but beyond that, to all these individual organizations that say,
00:28:56.400we're raising money for schools in Africa, or for wells in Africa, for this, show me one country in Africa, show me one animal that's been saved.
00:29:03.960Show me one village where they no longer have a sanitation problem.
00:29:08.680Show me one country where the education is now no longer an issue because of the billions and billions of dollars that have been poured in.
00:29:34.100So, they'll take your tax dollars, and they'll hold fundraisers, and they'll hold big events in New York, and they'll show you, they'll trot out the little black kids who look so cute on camera, and they say, we're saving them.
00:29:45.600I've worked in Malawi, Zambia, Mozambique, Lesotho, Swaziland, Burundi, Kenya, Uganda, I mean, South Africa, obviously, Zambia, Zimbabwe.
00:29:58.400I mean, you name it, and beyond, all the way up to the north.
00:30:01.560I have never been to a village where you've had aid organizations that have been there for 10, 20, 30, 40, now 50 years, where anyone is actually better off.
00:30:10.920And it traps them in a cycle of poverty because it disincentivizes work.
00:30:14.940You don't need to go out and do something because there's some Bill Gates Foundation is going to come and give you whatever you need.
00:30:22.360But what they've also been doing is coming in and saying, oh, we'll help you with the farming, but you have to farm GMO seeds, which is another form of indentured servitude because the seeds are not self-generating.
00:30:33.400And so these farmers are now 100 percent dependent on this organization, the Gates Foundation or Warren Buffett.
00:30:40.460And by the way, they bring in this highly sophisticated mechanized digital farming and farming equipment in places that don't even have electricity.
00:30:49.040So how is that supposed to be maintained and sustained?
00:30:51.980And they have relied on corruption and greed and ideology, Marxist ideology is much easier for you to say, OK, race is the problem.
00:31:01.340And if you look at it historically, Vladimir Lenin sent his emissaries all over the world to identify fissures in societies that could be exploited.
00:31:40.080It is a saying that is meant to divide the society.
00:31:43.620Because South Africans, I have to say two things are really important.
00:31:46.640The vast majority of people who suffer on a daily basis from the violent crime are black people, which doesn't mean there isn't a genocide, but it is important to acknowledge that.
00:31:56.960And the other thing is to acknowledge, again, that in spite of the segregation, South Africa is a very integrated society.
00:32:04.180Just because out of the sheer numbers, and there is a great love between the people, in spite of their best efforts to divide people, there is an enormous amount of love and goodwill among all races in South Africa.
00:32:16.040The reason why I asked about winter is that, you know, when I look at the planet, it seems southern enough relative to the Northern Hemisphere to get a normal winter.
00:32:28.460And I was just looking up why it doesn't, and it's because of ocean currents and elevation relative to the Northern Hemisphere.
00:32:35.460The Mediterranean is a little bit warm, despite them being relatively northern.
00:32:38.340But there's a theory I wonder if you all have heard of.
00:32:41.080You mentioned that this philosophy where if you're facing a problem, you can either solve it or live with it.
00:32:47.240And one of the theories that I read is that cultures that had harsh winters, they built their society around the need to constantly—you're in a constant state of detriment and panic.
00:32:58.260In that, even if you have a big pile of food, you're feeling like you don't have enough.
00:33:03.700And this comes from, if you were to survive a winter in the North, if you said, you know what, we got enough food for the summer, winter would come, you die.
00:33:12.020So the only civilizations that persist were those that said, we have to have more than we need.
00:33:18.100This is more likely to say, the problem has to be fixed, otherwise we die tomorrow.
00:33:22.540But in places like the Mediterranean and in places like Africa where it's warm and there's year-round fishing and there's year-round fruit, you don't have to have that because you don't have the harsh winter where you're going to struggle to survive.
00:33:35.720So one theory as to why Liberia fails is that this culture that they're handed, it's like, here's an American constitution.
00:33:53.140So there's a story towards the end of the Soviet Union when Gorbachev at the time of the Perestroika, they had some conversations about how to maintain socialism.
00:34:04.940And one of his advisors said, what we need in Russia is Swedish socialism.
00:34:11.120And then Gorbachev said, but where are we going to get all the Swedes?
00:34:15.420And it's sort of the equivalent of saying, so we're just going to make Liberia an American country.
00:34:22.220But then the question is, where are we going to get all the Americans?
00:34:26.600It's not an American country, which means that the outcomes would be different because of cultural dynamics.
00:34:31.220And culture is a complicated thing and it's a controversial thing also to discuss.
00:34:37.460And I think in the South African context, it's very difficult to try to analyze what is happening there without considering cultural dynamics.
00:34:46.820And there are different reasons why different cultures reach different conclusions.
00:34:51.840And this certainly could be one of them is weather conditions and so forth.
00:34:55.880But I would say in the African context, there are other threats or risks, such as just wildlife, not today as much.
00:35:05.800But I mean, years ago, centuries ago, like you were constantly under risk of being eaten by a lion or scrambled by an elephant or something.
00:35:38.380And then the other thing is that we talked about this, Ernst, on the way over here, is having a constitution and a democracy without a republic is doomed to fail
00:35:47.100because it's really the republic that is in itself the checks and balances of the democracy that ensure the equality that you're talking about,
00:36:15.960I've never been anywhere that has a system like the United States where there is such a strong both political and legal and cultural identity for the different regions while still having this shared identity.
00:36:27.880Is the Marxist goal just to destroy – is it just, you know, demons that are like, let's ruin everything and burn down civilization?
00:36:41.100Well, I mean, it's kind of like what you saw with ChatGBT when you asked it a very basic question about South Africa, and then it responds like full-blown defense.
00:36:48.580And you get this in the press in the West all the time about South Africa is it's an issue that uniquely animates the left and the West is the South Africa issue.
00:36:58.480And it's kind of like what you talked about because what's at stake for the order that exists in America and the UK, Europe at large, is if South Africa in this current iteration fails, then that's a huge indictment of their system.
00:37:13.260Because they went from a, you know, European-dominated system to – and they're trying to implement this liberal system into a group that's not used to it, quite frankly.
00:37:22.240So if this fails, I mean, it's a huge blow to the liberal world order, so to speak.
00:37:30.360So South Africa became – South Africa as we know it today in 1994, which was just shortly after the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the conclusion then was communism had been defeated.
00:37:42.700And we'll be globally replaced by liberal democracy.
00:37:46.720And then Francis Fukuyama famously wrote The End of History saying that, you know, that's going to be the future.
00:37:51.920We're now at the end point of human development.
00:37:56.900And it was at the height of this hype when the South African constitution was written with the assumption that actually we're all just the same and we're all just going to become the same.
00:38:07.320And that's why it's in a very important way.
00:38:10.020I think you mentioned the open society right at the beginning.
00:38:11.980And South Africa is a good example of the sort of an open society experiment.
00:38:16.640It was at the hype of this theory that it was constituted.
00:38:23.120And I have a sort of anecdote on that.
00:38:25.620The first time I came to America was in 2012, and I spoke at an event at the United Nations in New York.
00:38:45.920And he said that we, some of us can see that the cracks are showing in South Africa, but you have to understand that for us, South Africa is the example that should be followed by the world.
00:38:57.960It's not in terms of ideology, in terms of the political system, in terms of the structure.
00:39:03.680We don't want to talk about the problems in South Africa because that's sort of ideologically where we want to end up with, what we want to end up with.
00:39:10.700And now, as far as it's failing, it creates a problem.
00:39:15.620And he was sort of weirdly on my side trying to give some advice that it's not going to work.
00:39:20.380But now the failure is up to the point where you can't deny it anymore.
00:39:23.660And I think that's partly why it's so controversial to talk about the failure in South Africa because it shouldn't fail because theoretically it's good, but it's not.
00:39:30.800I'm so over this, you know, as Ted was bringing up, the media's defensive reaction to honest questions or how weird it was that JetGPT decided to inject huge essays on things I didn't ask about.
00:39:45.080It does this on issues of institutional importance when the institutions want.
00:39:49.720I don't care if the corporate press wants to insult me and claim I'm a conspiracy theorist because I ask a question or report on things that are actually happening in that country.
00:39:59.160I mean, so when we look at the political structures of this country, there's this – in the United States, I don't know where it comes from.
00:41:00.300And so I started to read about this stuff, and I'm not – this is mid-2000s internet.
00:41:06.220This is not weird, you know, whatever the media wants to call conspiracy theory, great replacement, garbage nonsense.
00:41:11.480I literally was like, I want to read about what happened, and I started reading about baby rape, how there are people who believe that if you have AIDS, you can transfer it to a baby by infecting them with the disease.
00:41:22.940And I started asking myself, how does this happen?
00:41:25.600And then, of course, I read about the expansion of crime following the end of apartheid, and I say, okay, what – like, it's not something I followed tremendously or anything.
00:41:34.140But later in the years, when the story starts to become more prominent in the United States, largely with people pushing the idea of white genocide or whatever they wanted to call it, which I know you say is contentious and not accurate to a certain degree, the media immediately starts getting defensive and saying, no, you can't talk about this.
00:41:50.060So it makes me then start to wonder why.
00:41:54.380I mean there's clearly something going on that has people talking, but why is the immediate reaction from everyone in the press, shut your mouth?
00:42:01.020And that, I think, creates a bigger and bigger interest in the story, and it makes people feel like there is an intentional action among world governments to silence those who might bring up the fact that maybe their plans aren't working the way they expected them to, or maybe the plans aren't working the way they expected them to, and they're horrifying.
00:42:19.120So when you said, is the goal of the Marxists just to burn it all to the ground kind of thing, the goal is control, right?
00:42:26.520And you see that playing out in exactly what you're talking about.
00:42:29.160You're not allowed to ask those questions because we want to control the narrative.
00:42:34.060We want to control what you think and how you act, and we want to have absolute control over that.
00:42:39.840That's what technology is moving towards.
00:42:42.600And if you look at what does the evidence show you, well, in South Africa, for example, there was an ambassador there.
00:42:50.840And when the whole thing of land invasions first raised its ugly head with Cyril Ramaphosa, I met with farmers who all said they were talking to the government, and they let them know, if you're going to take the land, if you're going to take the farms, we're not going to plant.
00:43:03.120So even though Cyril had signed the law, was considering signing the law the first time around, Cyril Ramaphosa, the president, he hadn't done it yet.
00:43:11.000So who was in the media at that time in South Africa telling people and encouraging the appropriation of land, who's calling for the redress of racial injustice and so on and so on?
00:43:50.620So here you have a guy who is pushing for a policy in South Africa that the South African government, I'm going to steal from Ernst here, here's a statistic.
00:44:00.460By their own statistics, 90% of commercial farms that are repatriated are become – they fail.
00:44:08.500First they fail, and then they become squatter camps.
00:44:10.740I saw this in Zimbabwe when the land was taken.
00:44:14.320And what happens is that the farms are never given – if the issue is race, how come the farms are never given to black farmers?
00:44:20.940Instead, they're given to cronies of the government and people that destroy them, people that either don't know how or cannot afford to farm them.
00:44:27.780So in South Africa, what's different here is that there are 30,000 commercial farmers who feed not just South Africa but people all across Southern Africa.
00:44:34.840So the very people who are saying you have to address the poverty and inequality in South Africa by taking back the farms know that it's the vast majority of black people will starve because they're without the commercial farms.
00:44:49.840The reason, Ernst said, if you go beyond Zimbabwe, it gets safer is because this is still the legacy decades later of the land expropriations without compensation in Zimbabwe is that the food supply in Zimbabwe is still a massive issue.
00:45:05.720Starvation and poverty and inflation have absolutely destroyed a country that was once called the breadbasket of Africa that used to feed all of these other countries.
00:45:17.200So it's very interesting because I sat in a market once in Zimbabwe having a robust disagreement with local traders there who said that HIV was created by the United States to get rid of black people.
00:45:29.460And at the time, I said, you guys are crazy.
00:45:32.560Oh, but let's take a little closer look at HIV because I also stood in graveyards in South Africa on a Sunday night when they were digging the graves for the babies that would die of HIV that week.
00:45:43.040And every week they did this all across South Africa in every graveyard.
00:45:46.980And it was hundreds, just rows, right?
00:45:49.300Hundreds and hundreds of tiny little graves as far as the eye could see.
00:45:53.580And what you would also see was that there were little, instead of a gravestone, there were little pockets of plastic vials.
00:46:01.500And those were the monuments that were made by the women who lost their children to HIV and were not allowed to talk about it because the president at the time, Tabo Mbeki, said that HIV wasn't real.
00:46:13.860And when you actually look at HIV, who was responsible for HIV?
00:46:17.900We were told it was one of these zoonotic diseases that, oh, this is going to sound familiar after COVID, that went from animals to humans.
00:46:25.920Actually, what I learned recently from several scientists is that animals cannot get HIV.
00:46:33.180The HIV that exists in humans cannot exist in animals.
00:46:36.780Well, the argument is, I mean, cats have FIV, which is similar, different.
00:47:33.860What's interesting, too, is they said that COVID affected Asians more because of the ACE2 receptors.
00:47:39.020They were more prone to getting the lung infections.
00:47:43.240Yes, because these diseases, when they're gaining function, what did COVID-19 mean?
00:47:48.500Anyone who's ever worked in biological warfare knew instantly that that was the 19th iteration of the gain-of-function research, of the manipulation of the disease.
00:47:58.140Well, the funny thing is, it was first publicly, like, widespread acknowledgement was in 2020.
00:48:05.900And everyone assumes that COVID-19 just meant 2019.
00:48:27.620Until the rise of independent media and until Elon Musk took over X, they had what's called an information warfare, a fifth-generation warfare, total information dominance.
00:48:36.680And so that's why they hardly cover their tracks a lot of the time.
00:48:40.300I do find one of the scariest things, because we've talked about this quite a bit since the gain-of-function research story had gotten so much prominence.
00:49:24.820I went to Liberia during the height of the worst, deadliest Ebola epidemic in history.
00:49:30.340I think we can all agree that nobody wants to die from Ebola.
00:49:32.940It's when the capillaries of your blood cells melt and you bleed from every orifice, it is described as one of the most horrific deaths that anyone can ever experience.
00:49:42.040I was in a frontline treatment center where people were dying every day.
00:49:45.620I was in the cemetery where they were being buried, and I was speaking to the grave diggers because they were all dying, and yet they were still doing that incredible job.
00:49:53.540And I had a scientist with me, a hemorrhagic scientist from the United States who worked for the Department of Defense.
00:50:00.040And one of the things when I was talking to the grave diggers, they wanted to know—and in Liberia, they speak with this pigeon English, right?
00:50:05.700So they say to me—they don't say, how are you?
00:50:12.520So I went to the scientist, and I said, can you come talk to these guys?
00:50:15.720Because I said, it comes from the bats.
00:50:18.260And they're like, what do you mean it comes from the bats?
00:50:20.820So I said, look, come talk to the scientist.
00:50:22.780So he came over and he spoke to them, and he said it's basically from people eating the bats.
00:50:27.380But interestingly, no one's ever found the Ebola virus in bats.
00:50:31.520What they found is the Marburg virus, which is, guess what, the cousin of Ebola, which is traced to a cave right up in the mountains, this massive bat cave.
00:50:40.320So the grave diggers say to the scientist, they say, okay, so how did Ebola come from the bats?
01:18:13.300So it's interesting that you raise this because if you actually look at Islam, the philosophy in the Koran is that we are all Muslim.
01:18:21.960Our DNA is Muslim, which is a little tricky when you look at the fact that when, how many years after Judaism and after Christianity, the Ottoman Empire and Islam really came along.
01:18:33.080It's like, so, okay, so what were we for all those years before the Koran was written?
01:18:41.320So that's where, you know, in Islam, critical thinking is not encouraged.
01:18:45.620It's very much that you need to accept the tenets of the Koran and the orders of Sharia, and you need to live by that, and you need to not question it.
01:18:54.460In fact, that's one of the mock differences with Christianity is that we have free will.
01:18:58.480So I would say that it begins with the truth, and I'm not saying that you give everything back to the original, but I just want to show you that there's another extension to this argument of who is the land.
01:19:08.360I sat with Zulu tribesmen in Zululand, actually, in KwaZulu-Natal, and we were doing a story for 60 Minutes on saving the white rhino from extinction.
01:19:16.980And one of the solutions from the conservationists is that you have to connect all this land because the animals used to be able to roam, and now they can't roam because of fences and all the rest of it.
01:19:26.000And so when I was talking to these guys, you know, one of the things they asked me is, why do white people like these animals so much?
01:19:32.180And I was like, well, what, you know, for all these reasons, and why don't you like them?
01:19:37.220And they're like, sure, we like them, but I mean, we lived with rhinos forever.
01:19:41.840Like, this guy had never been two hours to the coast where I was born, had never seen the ocean, had never been north to Johannesburg, one of the centers of the country, had never been outside of KwaZulu.
01:19:52.020And so when we went through this conversation, I explained the whole thing with the land and the animals and everything, and they looked at me and they said, okay, so this land belonged to the animals.
01:20:02.920And I said, well, I guess that's sort of the thinking.
01:20:06.540And they said, so what land belongs to us?
01:20:10.640Because we've also been here from the beginning.
01:20:18.320Why do we have no claim to the land as humans?
01:20:20.600And that was very interesting for me and very revealing because you can see that argument playing out all over the world, that we as humans are an aberration.
01:20:29.620Everything we've done, look in California, more than a million acres of the Central Valley have been returned to its natural state before being destroyed by man.
01:20:37.780What's the natural state of the Central Valley?
01:20:39.820Because the bread basket, one of the bread baskets of the entire world is the Central Valley of California, some of the richest, most fertile agricultural soil.
01:20:46.880Well, under its natural state, it's a desert.
01:20:48.840So why do you think now in those Hispanic towns all across the Central Valley, you have higher poverty rates than Appalachia, which historically has been the highest poverty in the United States?
01:21:01.780But returning the land to its natural state before man is not always a better idea.
01:21:07.160In fact, what it's done is cause rivers to dry up across Texas, and you can find environmental disasters all across the United States because of the interference of conservationists who argue that the land has to go back to its natural state.
01:21:21.580So this idea that we as people have no claim to the land and everything that we do is destructive, that's another lie that's profoundly anti-human.
01:21:30.080And what they're going to do once they're done with the whites in South Africa, because it's not really about race, they don't care that black people are going to starve to death, they don't care about any of that.
01:21:40.500Because once they're done with, okay, the whites are now the target, then it's going to be these people are the target, and then it's going to be those people are the target.
01:21:47.620Because at its core, all of these philosophies are profoundly anti-human.
01:21:54.080They don't sell you Marxism because they love the people.
01:21:58.060There's no Marxist country on earth where the people have been better off.
01:22:01.900It's always been a small group of people that have absolute control who have, by the way, you know, millions have starved in Marxist communist countries.
01:22:09.800So it's the same thing, what you see underneath all of this, the depopulation agenda and so on, is that these people have no regard or respect for the average person.
01:22:18.680And the elites in Washington look down on them.
01:22:21.720I don't know, like, Tim, like what you were saying is, I mean, the problem with giving, like, longevity credence for when you're trying to determine who owns what land, like, that's a very liberal argument to make, as in, they've been here the longest, they get the land.
01:22:34.820And, like, land ownership ultimately should belong to those who have cultivated the land, who have created, who have built something out of it.
01:22:41.380Because if you do just kind of retreat back to, like, trying to see who had the land first, you end up like the Balkans where they're arguing over who invented baklava and they go to war over it.
01:22:51.000Like, that's not a worthwhile way to determine who owns the land.
01:23:14.260And how can you say that you are the owner of a piece of land?
01:23:17.480So part of the argument for the Afrikaners when the Great Track happened and we, our ancestors, moved into the interior of South Africa was they sent out a group which was known as the Commission Track.
01:23:29.520So it's basically scouts that they sent up to say, let's find empty land where we can settle.
01:23:35.240And they came back and they said they found villages in some places, they found Zulus and so forth.
01:23:40.120But they also found, they found places that were just skeletons because of the Mufekane slaughter.
01:24:28.920And if you build settlements, but different communities and different nations can have different views on when could you actually argue that you are the owner.
01:24:36.720Well, I mean, that's why I think, that's why for Afrikaners, I think trying to go to the longevity argument, put you guys on the back foot already.
01:24:42.600Because they're going to say, well, someone walked across this mountain a thousand years ago.
01:24:47.800And like the thing I see, this happens a lot online, is Afrikaners will walk, like walk people through the history of who settled where, who settled when.
01:24:55.700But people don't really, they already have an answer in their head.
01:25:38.040So if you actually look at the doctrine of the United Nations, when it was founded, it was the UN, it was the Temple of Understanding, which was based on a cellular religion.
01:25:49.900They believe in the cellular religion, which is essentially paganism, where every cell, every living cell is equal.
01:25:58.140So land and animals and humans, because we're all cellular organisms, we're all equal.
01:26:04.240And that's why you'll see them say that to own land is slavery.
01:26:10.100Because every form of ownership, if you own animals, agriculture is bad, because in owning animals, that is a form of slavery.
01:26:17.560And in owning land, you are now enslaving the land.
01:26:21.240Because if all living cellular organisms are equal, we don't have rights to ownership.
01:26:27.440And so that's the extension of the Marxist platform, which is an extension of the godless platform, because in the cellular religion, there is no God.
01:26:39.020And what do we hear over and over again today is organized religion is bad, God doesn't exist, and spirituality comes from where?
01:26:48.200It comes from the mountains and the earth and the environment and the climate.
01:26:52.680And so you start to see how all of these things actually intersect, which is why I say that the significance of the Open Society Foundation's role in South Africa and that ideology cannot, you literally cannot talk about that enough.
01:27:07.200Because it's the part that people don't see, and they want to say this is just about race, and now you're being negative about South Africa, you're going to destroy foreign investment, you're going to destroy the image.
01:27:16.700South Africa is an extraordinarily rich, extraordinarily beautiful place.
01:27:22.880And in spite of the violence, there's an amazing amount of goodwill, there's joy, there's incredible music.
01:27:28.820Don't forget that heart transplants were pioneered in South Africa by Dr. Chris Barnard, working, by the way, with his gardener at the university.
01:27:37.200There was a black gardener, a guy who used to look after the gardens at the university, and he would, when Chris was working late, he would bring him in, and he taught him everything that he knew, and they worked together and had an amazing friendship.
01:27:48.060So there are incredible stories throughout South Africa and incredible examples that you can give of the richness and the beauty of this place, and the people who want to control it absolutely do want to destroy it.
01:28:00.860And those people are destroying sovereignty all over the world, and they're destroying humanity all over the world.
01:28:25.080Well, like, when I was in South Africa, I road tripped from Cape Town all the way up through Kimberley and just stopped a lot of the small towns.
01:28:39.420And, like, there was an eerily kind of – there was a similarity to America in a lot of ways with the way things were laid out and the ways the cities were built.
01:28:50.140But I've heard a lot of people – I think you've even said this – is that South Africa in a lot of ways is kind of a portal into what America could look like in a couple decades.
01:28:59.620I mean, I'd like to hear maybe more on that because I think –
01:29:03.440So there are two reasons for that, why we say – so South Africa – America should look at South Africa not so much as a country that has to catch up, but much rather as a country where America could end up.
01:29:16.240It sounds very dramatic, but there are two reasons why I think it's important to point out.
01:29:23.940The one is many countries in the West especially are trying to implement the policies that have been implemented in South Africa for some time.
01:29:34.380So South Africa has had BEE for a few decades and it's –
01:29:38.880You need to explain that's black economic empowerment.
01:29:43.180With 30% of the company, right, you have to give it to someone who's not white.
01:29:47.780Yeah, it's the South African version of DEI.
01:29:50.660So South Africa has had DEI on the books for some time and we can already see what the consequences of that is.
01:29:56.920It doesn't uplift the so-called targeted community.
01:30:01.100And so the country is largely – it's not largely, the country is suffering tremendously as a result of these laws and policies that have been implemented that many others are trying to follow.
01:30:11.800And it links back to that example I mentioned earlier about the guy at the UN who said, we can't criticize South Africa because we want to follow the South African example.
01:30:20.120And now if we say it's not working, we can't follow that example.
01:30:40.020And so what especially the Afrikaners have done in the last few decades is to say the only solution we can see is through institutions, like community institutions, building our own schools, building our own universities, developing our own institutions.
01:30:55.380And that could – an institution could be many things.
01:32:18.140So, look, I mean, I'm not their spokesperson.
01:32:20.700But if – I've heard them say that, can a black person buy property in Orania?
01:32:26.360And the answer that they usually give is theoretically yes.
01:32:29.080But because, firstly, it's not about race.
01:32:33.420The question is, are you committed to the promotion of Afrikaner culture?
01:32:37.760And are you committed to this project of developing this town into one where sort of Afrikaner culture could flourish?
01:32:46.900And so theoretically, yes, but there's not – they haven't seen a black person coming forth to say, I want to live here because I want to help you build your culture.
01:32:55.220So it's a bit – you should actually have them on your show, and it would be a very interesting conversation.
01:33:00.680Well, I noticed when I was in Cape Town, a lot of English South Africans – I don't know, disdain's not the right word, but they just felt a huge gap between the way their worldview is and with Afrikaners.
01:33:13.860They look down on the farmers and the Boers and the Afrikaners and Natal, which is KwaZulu-Natal, where I was born and raised, and the Cape, the Western Cape.
01:33:25.160Those were the provinces that were really – the British didn't come until 1820.
01:33:29.500That's when the British settlers came.
01:33:31.600And so it's the descendants of really English-speaking South Africans, white South Africans, and Afrikaans-speaking.
01:33:38.640So, yeah, I mean, the English-speaking South Africans did kind of – they do have that kind of mindset where they're superior to the Afrikaners, which is very similar to the United States, where, you know, people in the cities look down on people from the countryside, right?
01:33:56.740Because a lot of the Afrikaners are rural and are the backbone of the rural, you know, commercial farms and communities and everything.
01:34:07.080So, yeah, there was definitely an elitist mindset.
01:34:09.580There's an interesting thing that people have been debating.
01:34:20.500And most Afrikaans people also speak English.
01:34:23.040But you would never or almost never find an Afrikaans person and an English person speaking with each other in Afrikaans.
01:34:30.800The conversation – even though both understand both languages, the conversation would always be in English.
01:34:35.540Well, and there was also a political dimension to that that factors in just a little bit, which is that under apartheid, one of the things the South African government did was insist that black schools would be – black kids would learn in Afrikaans.
01:34:48.340And so that was one of the ways – one of the reasons that the ANC spawned the United Democratic Front, which – and that's why they were burning down schools.
01:34:56.440So, you know, as a white person, you'd say, well, why would you burn down your school?
01:34:59.160But black people recognized that English was a language of the world and that to really take their place among nations, that it was important to speak English.
01:35:08.040And they felt that they were being marginalized by being forced to learn in Afrikaans.
01:35:11.780And so they rose up and protested against that.
01:35:14.360The dynamic I saw when I was there with English South Africans, it reminds me a lot of, like, you were touching on with the city versus rural.
01:35:35.340And I remember I kind of felt like I saw the same thing in South Africa with a lot of the urban English South Africans were like, yes, this is great.
01:35:43.360This is going to be great for everyone.
01:35:44.420And then the Afrikaners were like a lot of the farmers and out on the outskirts and kind of had more skin in the game.
01:35:58.480Or even on elements of, like, because in, like, when you're in Cape Town and you're in some of these neighborhoods, I mean, these are, like, nicer than neighborhoods you have in America.
01:36:05.220Like, when you're in, like, Camps Bay and stuff.
01:36:17.320But people, like, that live there, I don't think they really understand what the reality is in the rest of South Africa because that's the way they behave is, like, it's totally fine.
01:36:25.240No, it's the same white liberal thing that you get everywhere.
01:36:39.540And then that helps you live with your white guilt, right?
01:36:43.320Because now you can justify the fact that you have a nice house and you live differently and you can sit around the dinner table and say, oh, isn't it terrible that, you know, so much of the wealth is still in the hands of white people and so much of the land is still in the hands of white people and that disproportionately, if you look at management and companies, white people have more jobs, high-level jobs than black people.
01:37:25.200I've literally asked these people, where do you – like, it was an issue during COVID where there was a milk shortage and I said, where do you think milk comes from?
01:37:50.600Because it's about control of the food supply.
01:37:53.120What happens in any socialist, Marxist, communist state is that people starve to death because the government takes over control of the food supply and they use food to control people, which is another reason South Africa is so strategically important in this fight.
01:38:06.560Because if you look at it globally in terms of global supply chains, that's what they've been doing ever since COVID is they've been attacking global supply chains.
01:39:42.680That's why they don't want you to talk about the Nazis when it comes to COVID.
01:39:46.020And because a lot of these biological warfare programs, we took over from the Nazis and continued at Fort Detrick in Maryland on U.S. soil.
01:39:54.620I just saw a very funny Babylon Bee sketch where a progressive feminist goes back in time to kill Hitler.
01:40:00.700And then before she does, he asks her why.
01:40:04.400And then every time she says what their plans are, he agrees with her.
01:40:09.180And then, you know, basically she comes to realize that she's liked Hitler all along.
01:42:47.600Okay, so you know how in the United States there's this romantic vision of Cuba.
01:42:51.740You see all the old cars from the 50s, and everything is so cool, and, you know, they have all the doctors, and the Cuban music is so cool, and everything Cuban is cool.
01:43:00.660I went and did a series of reports for CBS News.
01:43:06.800I saw where he lived and did all that stuff.
01:43:09.200I did this story on the Harley-Davidson club of Cuba, of Havana.
01:43:13.660Okay, so it was inside this guy's backyard.
01:43:15.620There's a Harley-Davidson surrounded by chickens and everything, and they have to manufacture.
01:43:20.280Oh, the Cubans are so industrious because they can manufacture the parts because they can't bring them in.
01:43:24.740And, of course, we went for a ride on the Harley with the head of the Harley-Davidson club, and we broke down like five times until we had to give up.
01:43:33.680And then I had to call for my producer to come because up at the side of the road because that's the glamour.
01:43:40.360That's the Hollywood version versus the reality.
01:43:42.860You go, oh, yeah, there's beautiful restaurants in Cuba.
01:43:45.440Take your own toilet paper, right, because you go to the bathroom, and there is no toilet paper, literally.
01:43:55.960And then also what nobody talks about is generationally when there's no private ownership of land.
01:44:00.700So, you know, what happens in these apartments is you go in, and you have to live with your parents, and then you get married, and you have kids.
01:44:08.120And they have to either live with their parents or whoever they marry, their parents.
01:44:13.600And so what you end up with is in these apartments is people sleeping in every single room.
01:44:17.880So the living room has a bed against the wall that you pull down.
01:44:20.680So you pull the table down to eat, and then you put the table up, and then when it's bedtime, you pull the bed down.
01:44:28.140I just wanted to – for those that aren't familiar with the killing fields, I wonder if – there are many people who just, you know, heard us all laugh about how shocking it was.
01:44:34.620But I want to read this couple paragraphs for you so you can understand.
01:44:36.960Sites in Cambodia, where collectively more than 1.3 million people were killed and buried by the Communist Party of Kampuchea during the Khmer Rouge rule from 75 to 79, immediately after the Cambodian Civil War, the mass killings were part of a broad state-sponsored genocide.
01:44:52.740Basically, ethnic Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese, Cham, along with Cambodian Christians and Buddhist monks were the demographic targets of persecution.
01:44:59.600As a result, Pol Pot was described as a genocidal tyrant, and it wasn't until Vietnam invaded and put an end to this that did the genocide actually stop.
01:45:06.960And to this day, there are still landmines all over the place where they have volunteer groups trying to clear it out because of what the communists had done.
01:45:15.300So, you know, the more you know, communism is bad.
01:45:17.880The more I learn about communists, the less I like them.
01:46:45.020You mentioned this earlier, especially on the farms.
01:46:47.580It's uncommon for people not to live the way you described it, with fences inside the house, these trolley door security gates.
01:46:56.680So, typically, you would find one in the hallway that goes to the rooms.
01:46:59.660So, there would be – if you don't live in an estate like that, what would typically happen is there would be a big fence around the house with usually barbed wire, but then also electric fence.
01:47:10.520Then there would usually be some form of laser securities in the garden.
01:47:15.120Like, if you walk in the garden, it would trigger an alarm system linked, of course, to armed response that automatically – private security.
01:52:13.700And there's an unconscionable amount of violence.
01:52:16.600And what the South African government does very well is it avoids having that conversation at all.
01:52:21.580So, I mean, and just because the vast majority of people who are attacked and raped and murdered on a daily basis, there's more black people than white.
01:52:45.200And the other thing is to look at the attacks on the farms in the context of the laws, the interpretation, and the implementation of the laws, right?
01:53:43.220Yeah, I mean, I guess for two South Africans, the question would be being, well, and you obviously have a lot of experience in the States too, is like, what is the advice slash warning for Americans?
01:53:53.380I think the warning is partly what we discussed already is just where these policies go, what you end up with if you start implementing these policies.
01:54:07.980Another is this – I spoke at an event at the Conservative Partnership Institute last night, and they also asked me this.
01:54:15.460And one warning is – or lesson, I think, from South Africa is don't feed the crocodile.
01:54:21.320It's that old – I think Winston Churchill has said – an appeaser is someone who keeps feeding a crocodile hoping that it would eat him last.
01:54:29.700But what just keeps happening is the crocodile doesn't get full.
01:54:33.120It just keeps getting bigger and bigger.
01:54:34.480And that's what happens when you give in to these demands, especially from the left, saying, well, you should do this and you should do that.
01:54:41.780And especially then sort of the liberal response is often, yes, but look how much power we have.
01:54:48.120And so let's just give away these things, even though there's no legitimate argument as to why you should do that.
01:55:28.920So that's why I mentioned that we can't vote ourselves out of the problem in South Africa because the country is very big, very poor, more than 40% unemployment.
01:55:41.440That's the narrow definition of unemployment.
01:55:44.380And can you blame those people if they vote for socialism?
01:55:48.380So one party comes up and says, I'll give you, you know, I'll give you, we will have a system where you can get a job and you have to work and you can flourish.
01:55:58.320And the other one says, vote for me and I'll give you money.
01:56:11.400Like more than 28 million people in South Africa.
01:56:14.020But then if you add, if you add people who work for the government, it's almost 60% of people in South Africa get money from the government.
01:56:21.840So, and then, then compare that to how many people in South Africa actually work, how many are employed, then the amount of people in South Africa that vote for money is like two or three times as much as the amount of people that work for money.
01:56:36.120This is why disenfranchisement is the only path.
01:56:47.200The easiest and simple one, I think, is that in the U.S., in order to vote, you have to sign up for selective service and you get a voter ID card.
01:56:54.720And that would eliminate a lot of degenerate voting practices immediately.
01:56:58.560And there's nothing really tied to it.
01:56:59.980I mean, you're not going to get drafted, but you have to at least pledge to do it.
01:57:03.620Then there's the more serious of you have to actually serve in some capacity.
01:57:09.160People always try to insinuate it means combat because they're trying to discredit you.
01:57:11.960But then you'd have people who have full rights and everything, but you just don't vote on how the system is run unless you agree to contribute to that system.
01:57:18.660Unless you're a part of it, yeah, with your actions.
01:57:21.180And that could mean service could be cleaning the highway.
01:57:24.400It could mean volunteer work, win a soup kitchen.
01:57:48.460Yeah, people are going to vote for their interests.
01:57:50.200And for a lot of people, their interest is getting food in their mouth, and that's really the end of it.
01:57:54.420That's something the ANC said in the 90s when the Berlin Wall fell and everyone said, okay, the future of communism has been defeated.
01:58:00.440That they – Joe Slovo from the Communist Party in South Africa said, well, actually, the future of communism lies through democracy.
01:58:08.740And he said that in – and he then said, well, real communism has never been tried.
01:58:13.500But he said the argument – his argument was that Stalinism is not real communism because it's too – it gives too much power to the party or it's too aggressive.
01:58:24.920What they mean when they say that is that you show people your true intent because when Obama said defund the police and Democrats lost support, he said we shouldn't have said defund the police.
01:58:37.440He didn't say we shouldn't defund the police.
01:59:14.300If I may, I work for a think tank slash advocacy group.
01:59:20.560It's an NGO in South Africa that does research on what's happening in South Africa.
01:59:25.340And our main argument, as I mentioned in the beginning, is that we believe that the reform South Africa needs is systemic reform.
01:59:33.240It needs a different political dispensation.
01:59:35.620And so if there are people watching who are interested in that, either from a journalistic perspective or a research perspective or just becoming involved or supporting, I would encourage them to go and visit our website.
02:00:02.420I would just say that this is a global assault.
02:00:06.800And the things, if South Africa seems to you to be far away and halfway across the world, then why should you care?
02:00:12.640I would say you should care because all of the things that are happening there are the same battles that are being fought here in the United States.
02:00:19.420And if people want to find me, they can watch my show, Going Rogue, with Laura Logan, my podcast, which is on every platform.