The Culture War - Tim Pool - The Flat Earth Conspiracy Debate

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00:01:27.640 He comes on this show and starts talking about wanting to go to Antarctica, and I asked the audience.

00:01:33.760 I said, you know, look, it's your guys' memberships that help fund Tim Kass, the culture war, the morning show, and all that stuff.

00:01:40.940 Should we send Alex Stein to Antarctica to prove that the earth is indeed not flat and it's not an ice wall?

00:01:48.220 Well, 99% said yes. It's $30,000. And I said, okay, Alex, when are you going to Antarctica?

00:01:55.600 Uh-huh. So answer the question.

00:01:57.620 Well, you know, I guess today we'll make that decision live on the show.

00:02:00.840 But one thing I will say is that we have a great guy here by the name of Austin Witsit that is going to Antarctica on this expedition with ALE.

00:02:09.760 So, in a way, I kind of feel like I'm going because I trust Austin.

00:02:15.040 So, I saved you $30,000, so you're welcome, Tim.

00:02:18.660 Oh, okay. All right.

00:02:19.920 And you should really, you could give me a check for $15,000 because we're not going to use it, and then we can just call it even.

00:02:26.120 We'll get you halfway to Antarctica.

00:02:27.640 I'll just go to Chile.

00:02:29.080 Okay, but this is also, everyone's like, oh, it's so easy to go to Antarctica.

00:02:31.900 First of all, and Austin can elaborate further on this, you have to fly from Dallas to Santiago, Chile, then Santiago, Chile to Punta Arenas, the tip of Chile.

00:02:41.440 And then you've got to take a flight from Chile, from Punta Arenas, the southernmost part of Chile, and take a four-hour flight and land on the ice in Antarctica.

00:02:50.700 So, you think that the earth is flat and there's a giant ice wall?

00:02:53.380 Well, I do not believe in the heliocentric model that they described.

00:02:58.120 Oh, heliocentric.

00:02:59.900 Well, obviously the earth is, you know, there's mountains, there's valleys.

00:03:02.840 No, no, but heliocentric means that the sun is...

00:03:05.080 Excuse me, I'm a geocentrist. I don't believe in that.

00:03:07.100 But the earth could still be round.

00:03:09.000 Theoretically, that's what...

00:03:09.820 Okay, all right, all right.

00:03:10.580 So, this is, we're going to, half the chat is like, you're all stupid, and the other half is like, LOL.

00:03:16.820 Well, so let's do a round of introductions for everybody before we just jump right into the debate.

00:03:20.700 Sir, would you like to start with your credentials, who you are, what do you do?

00:03:24.040 My name is Robert St. Janus, and I've written many books, half of them on science, and one of them is called,

00:03:31.140 Galileo Was Wrong, The Church Was Right.

00:03:33.580 Really?

00:03:33.920 That's a three-volume, 2,200-page thing.

00:03:40.000 So, we cover the history, the ecclesiastics, the science, and anything else that's available to talk about.

00:03:47.900 So, that's one of my claims to fame.

00:03:49.900 And the other is, we put out a movie in 2014 called The Principle.

00:03:54.460 I don't know if you've heard of it or not.

00:03:55.780 You haven't heard of it?

00:03:56.380 No, I've not heard of it.

00:03:57.040 This is yours.

00:03:57.980 Oh, all right.

00:03:58.360 Tim, you need to watch that documentary.

00:04:00.100 Oh, yeah?

00:04:00.360 It's a very good documentary.

00:04:01.440 Is it on, like, Amazon or any streaming service?

00:04:04.380 It's on streaming.

00:04:05.680 You can buy it on Amazon.

00:04:06.960 You can buy it for days.

00:04:07.440 Oh, okay, cool.

00:04:07.880 We can put it on afterwards.

00:04:08.880 We'll put it on.

00:04:09.420 Sure.

00:04:09.820 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:04:10.240 Because we don't have a DVD player.

00:04:11.740 Oh, okay.

00:04:13.260 Nobody does anymore.

00:04:14.100 Right, right.

00:04:14.840 All right, so it should be interesting.

00:04:16.640 That was a theatrical release.

00:04:18.420 Oh, okay, cool.

00:04:19.900 We started in Chicago, went to L.A., and then 15 more cities in the U.S.

00:04:25.100 It was on AMC, Regal Cinemas.

00:04:28.440 Oh, wow.

00:04:28.680 So it was a big deal, but it got shot down, and it became a flop because we had a lot

00:04:34.540 of enemies.

00:04:35.500 Do you want to pull your mic up a little bit closer?

00:04:38.880 Just, yeah, point it upwards.

00:04:41.040 Right, we'll get into all of that.

00:04:42.480 So you're a doctor, though.

00:04:43.360 I think that's important, right?

00:04:44.040 You have credentials.

00:04:44.740 Yeah, I have credentials.

00:04:45.680 There you go.

00:04:46.320 All of them are in theology.

00:04:48.460 Oh, excellent.

00:04:49.120 But I was a physics major in college, too, so I know some of the science.

00:04:52.520 Oh, very nice.

00:04:53.580 All right, sir.

00:04:54.300 How about you, good sir?

00:04:55.280 I hear you're going to Antarctica?

00:04:56.280 Yeah, yeah, my name is Austin Witsit.

00:04:59.160 I run the channel Witsit Gets It.

00:05:02.260 I describe myself as autodidactic, maybe, because I just dove into cosmology a lot over

00:05:08.760 the last few years.

00:05:10.140 So that's my primary focus.

00:05:12.240 It is not what we have been told.

00:05:13.860 It is cosmology.

00:05:15.260 And, yeah, I did a lot of activism during the 2020 range, so that's kind of what started

00:05:23.500 me down making content.

00:05:25.320 So, yeah, I primarily focus on cosmology, and I'm going to Antarctica.

00:05:28.560 All right.

00:05:29.160 And it should be exciting.

00:05:31.580 And you think the Earth is flat?

00:05:34.000 Yes.

00:05:34.960 Austin's the number one when it comes to flat Earth, backwards and forwards.

00:05:39.940 This guy knows it better than it does in the world.

00:05:42.100 And we got one more gentleman with us.

00:05:43.840 Sir, who are you?

00:05:44.820 So my name is Scott Ferguson.

00:05:46.620 I run the channel Astronomy Live.

00:05:48.860 I have a PhD, but it's in neuroscience.

00:05:51.220 But Austin invited me to come here today, I guess, as a representative for the mainstream

00:05:56.160 science.

00:05:57.280 So I do amateur astronomy.

00:05:59.160 I develop a lot of software for tracking rockets and satellites.

00:06:02.420 Sorry, can you put your mic closer?

00:06:03.800 Yep.

00:06:03.960 Yeah, so I develop software for tracking rockets and satellites with off-the-shelf telescopes.

00:06:11.600 I film a lot of rocket launches, film a lot of satellites, ISS, all kinds of stuff.

00:06:16.640 I've measured the radius of the Earth, the distance of the Sun, the distance of Mars,

00:06:22.020 the distance of various satellites.

00:06:23.300 So, yeah, I mean, my amateur astronomy hobby probably has some applicability.

00:06:29.360 But for full declaration, like, my PhD in neuroscience is irrelevant to the discussion

00:06:33.680 today.

00:06:34.320 Well, I watched a video on X, and it was a rocket launch, and the rocket gets way up,

00:06:39.720 and then all of a sudden it explodes.

00:06:41.460 And I was told that it was the rocket hitting the firmament and blowing up.

00:06:44.800 And that proves it, doesn't it?

00:06:46.240 In a way, it does.

00:06:47.280 You know, it's funny, though, you say that, because there's videos online, Tim, of, like,

00:06:51.460 a little kid being like, Daddy, why is that rocket curving?

00:06:54.920 If you ever see a rocket launch, they always do curve.

00:06:57.480 It's the Coriolis effect.

00:06:58.460 Yeah, right.

00:06:59.820 I'm sick of this.

00:07:00.840 And then this is another thing is, well, because my biological stepfather, Tucker Carlson,

00:07:04.320 I love you very much, Tucker.

00:07:05.580 Thank you for everything you do.

00:07:06.740 He came on my show, and we debated Flat Earth a little bit, and he's like, well, I don't

00:07:10.700 think it can be flat because snipers have to factor in the Coriolis effect.

00:07:14.740 Yet, if you talk to any sniper, they never have to do that calculation.

00:07:18.100 There's not a sniper that's ever done that in battle, done a Coriolis mathematical equation

00:07:25.440 to figure it out.

00:07:26.460 Well, Google says you're wrong.

00:07:28.280 And if Google says that proves it.

00:07:29.280 Google also says, what does it say?

00:07:31.480 It says a man can have a baby.

00:07:33.880 So, I mean, Google says men can get pregnant.

00:07:36.280 I got to be honest, though.

00:07:37.440 That actually does make it challenging to a certain degree.

00:07:40.860 Obviously, you can measure these things.

00:07:43.000 But when Google tells you men can get pregnant, it does call into question a lot of the claims

00:07:49.560 they make because we're like, hold on there a minute.

00:07:51.380 But without diving into that subject, there's an interesting point about whether we trust

00:07:54.900 mainstream acceptable knowledge, right?

00:07:59.280 And so if we go back to hundreds of years, and you'll know this better than me, but when

00:08:04.600 the view was that we were a geocentric solar system or universe, that was the mainstream

00:08:08.780 view, was it not?

00:08:09.520 Sure.

00:08:10.380 So people generally accepted the Earth was the center of the universe.

00:08:13.620 Well, the Greeks were divided.

00:08:15.940 Oh.

00:08:16.080 So Agoras was a geocentrist, but at the time of Aristotle, the same thing.

00:08:23.400 But Aristarchus of Samos was a heliocentrist.

00:08:27.000 And that's where Copernicus got his model from, Aristarchus.

00:08:30.680 Copernicus didn't really do much work, you know, measuring planets and all that.

00:08:34.320 So he got it from the Greeks, but he got the same model that was built on circles.

00:08:40.180 So his model really didn't work well until Kepler came along and put them in elliptical

00:08:45.160 orbits, and it worked a little better.

00:08:46.760 But it still wasn't perfect.

00:08:48.620 But Copernicus basically was copying from the Greeks.

00:08:51.860 So what's your view?

00:08:52.920 You think it's a geocentric solar system or universe?

00:08:55.220 How would you describe it?

00:08:55.960 I do.

00:08:56.520 Yeah.

00:08:56.680 And with Newton, that was not allowed.

00:09:00.860 Newton had equations, F equals MA, and some other ones that only allowed a heliocentric

00:09:08.660 universe.

00:09:10.380 The rest of the universe was absolute and inert.

00:09:15.000 It had no effect on our solar system.

00:09:17.600 So the way Newton figured things out was the sun's the biggest thing, has the most gravity.

00:09:23.780 That means all the planets have to go around it, including the Earth.

00:09:27.180 And that's all his system would allow, because he dealt only with the solar system and forgot

00:09:31.920 the rest of the universe.

00:09:32.720 Oh, interesting.

00:09:33.480 Okay?

00:09:34.760 So is Earth stationary?

00:09:36.740 Yeah.

00:09:37.380 So you do believe in a stationary Earth?

00:09:38.980 Oh, yeah.

00:09:40.000 What do you think about that, Scott?

00:09:41.420 You don't believe in that, obviously.

00:09:43.080 No.

00:09:43.660 I mean, so in general relativity, we can describe a reference frame in which Earth is centered

00:09:50.480 and stationary, but general relativity says there is no preferred reference frame.

00:09:54.460 You can't have an absolute reference frame in general relativity.

00:09:56.620 It just doesn't work.

00:09:57.820 So, you know, you can describe things that way.

00:10:00.900 But, yeah, in my view, it makes sense that, you know, the sun has the most mass in the

00:10:05.600 solar system.

00:10:06.660 Sure, you can describe a reference frame where Earth is stationary, but you could equally

00:10:11.220 describe one where we go around the solar system, Bary Center.

00:10:14.260 I'm not a heliocentrist in the sense that I think that our solar system's the center

00:10:17.920 of the universe, obviously, and I'm sure we'll get into it, but there's a lot of talk

00:10:21.260 about the cosmic microwave background radiation, and that's basically a fragment from, you

00:10:26.620 know, the Big Bang, where you have this leftover radiation, and certain aspects of

00:10:31.440 it seem to suggest that it aligns well with the ecliptic plane, which is the orbits that

00:10:36.420 the planets go around the sun.

00:10:38.920 But...

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00:12:06.160 Ontario, those alignments are not as exact as some make them out to be.

00:12:11.040 And there's also the fact that we have an annual shift in the cosmic microwave background

00:12:17.140 radiation.

00:12:17.520 You can actually see a modulation of it as we go around the sun every year.

00:12:21.740 Yeah, but in the cosmic microwave background, it does, in that picture, it shows Earth as

00:12:26.320 the center of the universe.

00:12:27.620 I got to do a pause real quick because we got fact-checked by someone in the Super Chat already.

00:12:31.180 Yeah, that's not true.

00:12:31.980 Google does say...

00:12:32.820 No, I'm sorry.

00:12:33.760 I Googled it and Google says no.

00:12:35.320 It used to say yes.

00:12:37.280 Look at this.

00:12:37.820 Google's AI says no.

00:12:39.120 A person born with male reproductive organs and living as a man cannot get pregnant.

00:12:42.980 Wow.

00:12:43.400 Wow, that changed.

00:12:44.240 It says, however, some transgender men and non-binary people can become pregnant.

00:12:47.960 The Trump effect?

00:12:49.380 Well, it used to be yes.

00:12:50.880 Oh, but back to the cosmic microwave background.

00:12:53.800 Yeah, back to the...

00:12:55.220 It says, you do believe that that is a real thing, right?

00:12:59.420 Of course.

00:12:59.840 Yeah, and it does show that the Earth is the center of that?

00:13:02.640 Well, what it shows is it shows certain alignments, but they're off by anywhere from 8 to 17 degrees

00:13:07.380 if you convert it to ecliptic coordinates.

00:13:09.540 So if you...

00:13:10.220 That's not much.

00:13:11.660 I mean, you're making it sound like that's a whole big deal.

00:13:14.140 It's not much.

00:13:15.180 But I think...

00:13:15.640 Because you have the quadrupole, the octopole, the axes of evil, three that are different,

00:13:22.260 and so they're going to be shooting up in different directions.

00:13:24.760 But those are all different from each other as well.

00:13:26.520 They're all about 8 to 17 degrees.

00:13:27.320 Yeah, but they're not different in the sense that they're looking at a different microwave radiation.

00:13:32.420 They're just modulating it differently because now you have 8 harmonic...

00:13:37.680 But I'm saying they're not all co-aligned.

00:13:39.720 They're off by 8 to 17 degrees.

00:13:41.580 Yeah, but the middle of that 8 to 17 degrees is the axis of evil.

00:13:47.180 Right.

00:13:47.440 That's the issue.

00:13:47.960 What is that?

00:13:49.240 The axis of evil is a term given to one of those directions that is aligned almost exactly

00:13:56.040 with our ecliptic plane, 23 and a half degrees.

00:13:59.240 Okay, so if you're supposed to be out there in the remote recesses of space like the Big

00:14:05.820 Bangers think, you're just...

00:14:07.720 The Earth is just out there with everybody else.

00:14:10.080 It has no significance, no speciality.

00:14:13.060 How is this radiation aligned with the Earth-Sun ecliptic plane?

00:14:19.060 Accident?

00:14:19.820 Coincidence?

00:14:20.800 But again, my point is the alignment is not that exact.

00:14:23.660 The quadrupole is 23 degrees from the equator.

00:14:24.740 It's enough for the scientists to say this is something.

00:14:27.820 They called it evil.

00:14:28.860 Let's make sure everyone understands it.

00:14:30.680 Evil.

00:14:31.540 In the globe model, they say the Earth is tilted at 23.4 degrees.

00:14:35.040 And then what's...

00:14:35.520 But real quick, sorry, Austin's about to go on a very good rant and we need to let him talk.

00:14:39.100 But when you say that, tilt, Tim, 23.4 degrees, subtract that from 100, what is that?

00:14:45.140 90.

00:14:45.760 Subtract it from 90 degrees.

00:14:47.140 What is that?

00:14:48.060 23.4...

00:14:50.520 23...

00:14:51.180 66.6.

00:14:53.520 Six.

00:14:55.180 Six, six, six.

00:14:56.360 And then how fast is the Earth orbiting the sun, Austin?

00:14:59.380 66,600 miles per hour.

00:15:02.020 Is that true?

00:15:02.520 That is true.

00:15:03.220 He says yes!

00:15:04.080 That's true.

00:15:05.120 And tell him, is that not true?

00:15:06.060 In the heliocentric model.

00:15:07.660 So Earth's orbital velocity is constantly changing.

00:15:10.840 There's no one exact value.

00:15:11.960 And if you look at it to...

00:15:12.920 What's the average of it?

00:15:14.620 Well, I mean, that's about the average, but...

00:15:16.260 That's exactly the average.

00:15:18.680 That proves that the Earth is flat.

00:15:19.540 Yeah, there you go.

00:15:21.560 Even the 23.4, that's not exact either, and it's constantly changing.

00:15:25.000 We actually have to calculate this.

00:15:26.580 Anytime we do coordinate conversions to ecliptic coordinates, we have to take the current

00:15:30.260 obliquity of the ecliptic.

00:15:31.380 The tilt of the Earth is constantly changing slightly.

00:15:34.000 Yeah, he's right.

00:15:34.820 But you're just saying that, right?

00:15:36.180 Like, this is the thing.

00:15:36.760 This is what always happens.

00:15:38.120 People just beg the question and assert the model and then equate that to being true.

00:15:41.900 But I measure it.

00:15:42.700 That's the beauty.

00:15:43.180 You didn't measure the Earth being tilted.

00:15:45.240 Yeah, I did.

00:15:45.740 I did, actually.

00:15:46.500 What you did was you looked at the sun, you reified and assumed your model, you assumed

00:15:49.580 the causation of the ecliptic plane was actually the Earth tilted.

00:15:52.200 That's what you did.

00:15:52.980 So what we see, so I want the audience to understand, we see the sun move in a certain path.

00:15:56.500 They're claiming it looks tilted because the Earth is tilted and it's an illusion.

00:15:59.260 They also claim that the, what's called the analima, so the sun does this like extended

00:16:03.080 figure eight that isn't perfectly symmetrical if you time-lapse it throughout the year.

00:16:06.440 They say that's because we're moving and it makes it look like the sun is moving.

00:16:10.280 So obviously just in simple, in very simple terms, we're saying, oh, the sun is moving.

00:16:15.060 That's why we see the sun moving.

00:16:16.400 You're claiming it's an illusion.

00:16:18.000 So you actually have the burden of proof just on its face, right?

00:16:20.300 What always happens is...

00:16:21.220 But Austin, real quick, sorry, just put a pin in it.

00:16:24.080 I'm curious, if you have a geocentric view, why is the sun doing a figure eight?

00:16:27.320 Well, the analima is complicated.

00:16:30.500 I mean, I do cover it in the book here, but there is a certain, and the analima actually

00:16:36.580 moves itself by a few degrees.

00:16:38.600 What is that?

00:16:39.500 It's how the sun is going to, it moves daily, okay, and yearly.

00:16:47.800 There's two different movements of the sun.

00:16:49.800 The analima is going to go by the yearly movement, okay?

00:16:52.960 So that's why it makes a complete figure eight.

00:16:55.100 You get the same thing when they put satellites up in over the earth.

00:17:00.880 They make a figure eight.

00:17:02.120 You can make them make a figure eight.

00:17:04.000 You can make them make a circle.

00:17:05.800 You can make them do anything depending on how fast you make the satellite move and the

00:17:10.980 tilt that you want it to have along the equator, okay?

00:17:15.220 So the sun has a certain tilt, 23.4 degrees, and it's going to go longer in the north than

00:17:24.060 it does in the south.

00:17:25.120 So you're going to get a figure eight that's going to represent the different speeds of

00:17:31.340 the sun compared to where the earth is.

00:17:34.120 And it's complicated, but that's basically what it is.

00:17:36.620 But my point is simply, whether you believe that the earth is going around the sun or the

00:17:39.960 sun is going around the earth, you can still measure that.

00:17:42.180 You can still measure that.

00:17:43.000 Of course, of course, it's an observation.

00:17:45.480 You're assuming the cause of the observation is the earth is moving.

00:17:48.100 But you said I didn't measure.

00:17:49.380 It's even worse, though.

00:17:50.280 No.

00:17:50.740 Let's just use it like really simple terms, Occam's razor.

00:17:53.520 So if you have an explanation for, you have two different explanations for the same cause

00:17:57.180 or phenomena, right?

00:17:58.340 You're going to go with the simplest one that requires least amount of assumptions, if they're

00:18:02.600 both viable.

00:18:03.080 And then if you're going to claim that there's something else that requires more assumptions,

00:18:05.920 you got to verify it.

00:18:07.320 It's actually way worse than this, though.

00:18:08.800 It's been scientifically proven with empirical measurement that the earth is not moving.

00:18:13.000 And we've actually shown that the interferometry correlates to periodicity of the sun, meaning

00:18:17.100 that the solar motion, how light travels and interferes with itself, changes based on

00:18:21.740 the time of year.

00:18:23.160 So it is empirically proven that the earth is not moving.

00:18:26.580 So not only do we not just grant it to you, right?

00:18:29.320 Because you're just saying the model as if it's true.

00:18:32.860 Yeah, I think he understands that.

00:18:36.280 And I want to take off from where you left off with general relativity, and then go back

00:18:41.560 to his point, if you don't mind.

00:18:42.780 It might take me a couple minutes.

00:18:44.280 But so you admit with general relativity that the sun can go around the earth, or the earth

00:18:49.460 can go around the sun, right?

00:18:50.960 You can describe it that way.

00:18:52.180 Well, it has to be real for you to describe it that way.

00:18:57.140 I mean, in other words, you just can't say it's possible.

00:19:02.320 I mean, we could have one of those scenarios as the true system, correct?

00:19:07.840 No.

00:19:08.780 Why?

00:19:09.600 You can't have either scenario because it doesn't have a preferred frame of reference.

00:19:15.260 What's it?

00:19:16.660 Meaning general relativity.

00:19:18.100 General relativity doesn't allow you to have...

00:19:19.780 Okay, but here's the point I was trying to make before.

00:19:22.460 Whereas Newton would only allow a heliocentric system, general relativity allows both a geocentric

00:19:29.520 and a heliocentric system.

00:19:31.860 So with the medieval science of Newton, we're never going to get a geocentric system.

00:19:37.280 But with Einstein and Mach, we're going to get it as a possibility.

00:19:41.960 So then it's just a matter of determining which one's the correct one.

00:19:45.380 No, it doesn't work that way.

00:19:46.920 Because to suggest that there is a correct one would be to suggest that there is an absolute reference frame.

00:19:51.360 Well, look, we see the stars and the sun go around us every day, right?

00:19:55.180 One of them has to be correct.

00:19:57.020 Either the earth is moving or the sun is moving around the earth.

00:20:00.280 From a general relativistic point of view, you don't have any particular reference frame.

00:20:04.460 You can't make an absolute statement.

00:20:06.000 You're basically arguing solipsism.

00:20:07.360 You're saying there's no objective truth at this point.

00:20:09.660 According to general relativity, there is no absolute reference frame.

00:20:11.920 General relativity doesn't make philosophical claims about objective truth.

00:20:14.780 But from our perspective, you're saying that the reference point of how we see the stars and everything moving is the sun is the reference point.

00:20:22.960 We are going around it.

00:20:24.160 That's how we perceive the universe.

00:20:25.640 That is a useful reference frame in a lot of circumstances.

00:20:30.760 There are some reference frames like if I'm measuring the motion of a satellite, the first reference frame I'm using is actually one that has my telescope at the center of the universe.

00:20:38.240 And if I'm predicting a solar eclipse and predicting the path of a solar eclipse, I actually use the moon as the center of the universe.

00:20:45.120 So I'm using a soleno-centric reference frame.

00:20:47.320 But that doesn't mean I believe that the moon literally is the center of the universe.

00:20:50.720 Of course.

00:20:51.240 That's also incorrect.

00:20:52.100 Actually, when we map out eclipses, we use ECEFs.

00:20:54.760 We do not use a—we map out the eclipses with an earth-centered, earth-fixed system.

00:20:58.680 Satellites use earth-centered, earth-fixed system.

00:21:00.500 You have to actually transform it to an ECI.

00:21:03.480 But his point—

00:21:04.520 Austin, that's not what I've done, though.

00:21:05.540 You're talking about maybe something someone else has done.

00:21:08.180 I've personally predicted the path of total solar eclipses, and I've done it using a soleno-centric reference frame.

00:21:13.300 I've published this on my channel.

00:21:14.560 But you could use an earth-centered reference frame, too.

00:21:16.980 And that's what NASA actually does.

00:21:18.700 That's your point.

00:21:18.760 That's what NASA actually does.

00:21:19.860 Okay.

00:21:20.460 So what—I'm going to go back to the same point is it doesn't matter what reference frame you use.

00:21:25.980 You know you see a reality when you look into the sky that something's going around something.

00:21:30.800 Do you agree?

00:21:31.160 You can't have them both going around each other.

00:21:34.180 Why not?

00:21:35.060 You can.

00:21:35.840 I mean, general relativity says you can define whatever reference frame you want.

00:21:39.520 And like I said—

00:21:40.400 Yeah, but we deal with the reality.

00:21:42.960 To define it as the center of the telescope.

00:21:44.780 Sometimes it's useful to define it as the solar system buried center.

00:21:47.440 Well, we understand what you're saying.

00:21:48.260 Real quick, real quick.

00:21:48.820 It could be either way.

00:21:49.660 Isn't it in the conventional model that everything is sort of going around each other, that two bodies impose gravity?

00:21:57.460 Yeah, I mean, that's how Newton got to the heliocentric version.

00:22:00.200 He said that there's a center of mass between the sun and the earth.

00:22:04.220 Yeah.

00:22:04.620 But since the sun is bigger, the center of mass is going to be more inside the sun than it would ever be to the earth.

00:22:10.460 But the earth does pull in the sun.

00:22:11.880 It's just negligible.

00:22:13.040 Negligible.

00:22:13.540 Yeah.

00:22:13.760 But the fact is, you can have that system where the earth is going around the sun, okay?

00:22:21.360 Or, to explain what we see in the sky, the sun and the stars can be moving around a central earth.

00:22:27.240 And general relativity allows that.

00:22:30.320 His thing is like, well, it doesn't make any difference what general relativity allows.

00:22:34.300 It can't pinpoint what the actual thing is.

00:22:36.900 Well, I agree.

00:22:37.760 I agree.

00:22:38.620 The fact is that it allows it.

00:22:40.300 So we can't base our decision on what Newton said, because that's what everybody does today.

00:22:46.560 But isn't the simplest argument, I suppose, is that when you map out the pattern of planets in a geocentric model, they're kind of erratic?

00:22:55.460 No, they're not.

00:22:56.180 That's what they make it look like.

00:22:58.360 In the Tychonic model, they're all going around the sun, same as they're doing in the heliocentric system.

00:23:04.160 The only difference is the sun's going around the earth at the same time it carries the planets in the Tychonic geocentric system.

00:23:11.940 So it's a very simple system.

00:23:14.100 As a matter of fact, the one that's complicated is the heliocentric system.

00:23:18.440 Let me try.

00:23:19.360 You're saying that the sun does move around the earth and the planets are being pulled on by the sun as well?

00:23:24.000 That's right.

00:23:24.340 That's right.

00:23:25.080 So it's almost like a mirror image of the Copernican system, except that the sun's going around the earth.

00:23:31.580 So real quick, sorry, just I'm trying to understand this.

00:23:34.820 So the sun has pull on the planets?

00:23:37.340 Yeah.

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00:25:05.940 And do you believe the sun then is not as massive?

00:25:08.820 It's smaller?

00:25:09.800 No, same sun in both systems.

00:25:11.840 What we have now is another force involved because the universe is rotating.

00:25:17.420 Yeah.

00:25:17.520 And that's going to cause centrifugal, Coriolis, and Euler forces on the solar system, and it's going to make that sun go in complete tow by the forces of the rotating universe around the fixed earth.

00:25:30.420 And so just to clarify, you're saying the earth is then fixed.

00:25:33.700 It cannot be moved.

00:25:34.820 Right.

00:25:35.200 Does it rotate?

00:25:36.660 Hold on, hold on.

00:25:37.320 I want to ask Robert a question here because I'm curious about this.

00:25:40.080 Let's say that you took a SpaceX starship and you went to Mars and you had a family and your family grew up on Mars.

00:25:46.500 How would they perceive the universe?

00:25:48.200 Would they perceive the sun going around Mars instead?

00:25:51.720 They're going to see it from the Mars point of view.

00:25:53.960 And I have no problem with that.

00:25:55.600 The question is, is that the real system?

00:25:58.200 You can go on Pluto and live if you want, and you're going to see everything revolve around Pluto.

00:26:02.140 Right.

00:26:02.420 That's not the issue here.

00:26:03.380 But that drives my question, then.

00:26:06.480 What is your evidence that it is Earth as opposed to if you grew up on Mars, you would feel like it was Mars?

00:26:11.600 We've done physical tests on the Earth.

00:26:13.240 That's where Austin comes in.

00:26:14.820 That's where I was going to go next.

00:26:15.880 We've definitively proven it.

00:26:16.500 We have Aries failure, stellar aberration.

00:26:18.280 It doesn't change when you introduce an additional medium.

00:26:20.580 We have Mickelson-Morley.

00:26:21.800 And we can get into all these, but interferometry.

00:26:24.020 Then Mickelson-Gill-Person matched this ideal rotation.

00:26:26.980 I'm not actually trying to scatter gun.

00:26:28.020 I want to make sure that the audience is following here.

00:26:29.960 So we have Newton.

00:26:31.140 You have the idea that the sun's really huge.

00:26:32.660 It has the most gravity.

00:26:33.580 The planets move around it.

00:26:34.440 So it's logical that the Earth would also move around.

00:26:36.560 So Austin, let me ask you a question.

00:26:37.860 Just a second.

00:26:38.360 So then Mach came along and said, wait up.

00:26:41.420 Newton didn't even think about the rest of the universe.

00:26:43.680 He thought the sun was the center of the entire universe.

00:26:45.760 So when we actually take his theory, even, and we apply it to a rotating universe,

00:26:49.820 the angular momentum of that whole universe would outweigh any effect of the sun,

00:26:53.140 and the Earth could be in the center.

00:26:54.400 This spills over into relativity as well.

00:26:56.440 Now, I actually reject all of this.

00:26:58.080 I reject the claimed sizes.

00:26:59.980 I reject the—I don't even believe in all that.

00:27:01.460 But it's misinformation.

00:27:03.240 It needs to be pointed out that even in the Newtonian and Einsteinian models,

00:27:07.480 the Earth could be in the center.

00:27:08.860 So what we need to do is go back to Earth, look at the actual test, the empirical evidence.

00:27:13.040 What does the empirical evidence show?

00:27:14.600 Instead of this woo-woo, we can't know the truth, it could be anything,

00:27:18.600 what does that serve us?

00:27:19.980 We did tests on the Earth that proved that the Earth is not moving.

00:27:23.280 Let me go back to the very first test.

00:27:24.620 Can I look that up?

00:27:25.860 Like, what were the studies?

00:27:27.260 What were the tests?

00:27:28.300 Well, let me go back to the first one.

00:27:29.640 Ares failure.

00:27:30.440 Ares, how do you—

00:27:31.440 A-I-R-Y.

00:27:33.280 Now, Wikipedia is going to do what Wikipedia does.

00:27:35.960 It does so you know.

00:27:37.020 I want to ask Austin this because, okay, so Ares failure.

00:27:40.340 So for people who don't know, and I'm sure Tim's going to pull it up here in a second.

00:27:43.640 But it involves—

00:27:44.500 Should I do that?

00:27:45.400 Well, that's the debunk site, but it's good.

00:27:47.420 It's still good.

00:27:48.220 It still can be good because all of them are going to say what's not true, which is very telling.

00:27:52.700 So Ares failure, for those who don't know, I'm sure the audience may not be familiar with this,

00:27:57.340 but it involves a telescope filled with water because light travels slower in water.

00:28:02.160 Would you agree that light travels slower in water?

00:28:04.440 Okay.

00:28:05.040 So you have a water-filled telescope.

00:28:06.880 The principle behind Ares failure, which, I mean, this experiment goes back, you know, before Einstein.

00:28:11.760 At that time, physicists believed in the ether that light was entrained in this ether

00:28:18.920 and that it was called the undulating theory of light, that light was traveling through the ether, a medium.

00:28:24.680 They thought it was necessary.

00:28:26.260 So basically, you have a water-filled telescope pointing at a star.

00:28:31.080 Now, you have stellar aberration because light acts a bit like when you're running in the rain.

00:28:36.120 If you accelerate, you have to tilt your umbrella down to catch the rain.

00:28:39.720 And so starlight acts that way.

00:28:41.960 As we go around the sun, the starlight is deflected slightly by Earth's orbital motion, at least in our model, right?

00:28:48.640 And so if you point a telescope at a star, you have to correct for what we call stellar aberration, the deflection of that starlight.

00:28:56.400 Now, if you fill that telescope with water, the thought was if the starlight is entrained in ether,

00:29:01.600 and think of this as a medium that Earth is moving through around the solar system,

00:29:06.280 then if you slow the light down, but if it's trapped in the ether,

00:29:10.700 it's still going to have lateral motion in the telescope consistent with Earth's orbital motion,

00:29:16.720 and that won't be affected by the water.

00:29:18.880 Okay.

00:29:19.300 And so, no, no, let me finish.

00:29:20.920 Let me finish.

00:29:21.420 So what happens in reality is you have a photon of light entering the telescope, slowed down by the water,

00:29:29.940 but the water doesn't have any preferential way of knowing,

00:29:33.760 oh, this vector towards the bottom of the telescope, I'm going to slow it down this direction,

00:29:37.600 but I'm not going to slow it down relaterally.

00:29:39.260 It doesn't work like that.

00:29:40.340 But it would have, at least in theory, if ether were real and it were entrained in the ether.

00:29:45.420 The idea was it's still stuck in the ether.

00:29:47.680 It's still going to have this lateral motion caused by Earth's orbital motion.

00:29:51.840 But because ether doesn't actually exist, and that's what the result actually showed,

00:29:58.160 that that photon was coming straight down the tube the same as it did without the water present.

00:30:03.480 So ARI showed no effect on stellar aberration.

00:30:07.380 The amount of stellar aberration in the water-filled telescope was the same.

00:30:10.960 But the whole reason they expected it to be different was because of ether,

00:30:15.100 the idea that it was going to be entrained in ether and move laterally.

00:30:18.680 So, Austin, my question to you is if you had your water-filled telescope on Mars and you point at a star,

00:30:24.000 will you see stellar aberration consistent with Mars' orbital motion, or will it be affected by water?

00:30:29.520 If you went to Narnia, what would be your favorite color?

00:30:31.940 I don't go to Mars, and that's irrelevant.

00:30:35.520 It's a deflection.

00:30:36.080 I'm going to correct.

00:30:36.880 What he just said was the mainstream version.

00:30:39.440 They do this with all truths, by the way.

00:30:40.940 That's why we're going to have a Wikipedia truth box at the bottom of this channel.

00:30:44.440 And they have to misrepresent this test, and it has nothing to do with ether.

00:30:47.840 Let me pause real quick, so just don't forget what you were going to say.

00:30:50.400 I want to stress one of the challenges is earlier we were mentioning Google.

00:30:54.080 The argument was Google says men can get pregnant.

00:30:55.880 Well, Google says it's not, but I will stress Wikipedia is full of lies.

00:31:00.880 Yes.

00:31:01.140 And so if you look up my wiki, it claims, and this is totally irrelevant to the conversation,

00:31:05.140 but it's relevant to Wikipedia.

00:31:07.220 At some point, they added that I was a proponent of and sought out ivermectin, which is just

00:31:11.940 could not be more false.

00:31:13.960 I argued against it to Joe Rogan on his own show.

00:31:16.560 So how they could put in something so false, and all of these editors are like, no, it's true.

00:31:21.320 Tim Pool did this.

00:31:21.880 And I'm like, watch the Rogan episode.

00:31:23.840 I told him, no.

00:31:24.660 I said it doesn't work.

00:31:26.400 That, whether you agree or disagree on any of the arguments being made on flat Earth,

00:31:30.220 presents a troubling scenario where the average person cannot figure out what is to be trusted.

00:31:35.920 So Tim, that's one of my favorite things about astronomy, is anyone can look up.

00:31:39.260 It is the most open science there is.

00:31:41.400 There's no astronomical observation that proves heliocentrism at all works from a stationary Earth.

00:31:44.920 But I don't want the point to get lost.

00:31:46.380 I don't want the point to get lost.

00:31:47.160 You just went on a long time, and you just said we can read on Wikipedia.

00:31:50.220 The problem with it is, if what Wikipedia is showing is a lie, and you can prove it by

00:31:54.620 going and reading the papers and looking at Aries' actual documents, have you done that?

00:31:58.920 I have.

00:31:59.420 And it says that it had a profound impact on the undulating theory of light.

00:32:03.280 Okay.

00:32:03.480 Because ether was necessary for that lateral motion of the photon.

00:32:06.260 You've said that four times.

00:32:07.980 That's what his paper said.

00:32:08.920 Okay, now I'm going to point out why you're wrong.

00:32:11.420 So you actually claimed, just so for the audience to understand, you have to look at

00:32:14.460 a star with a telescope, and to keep the star in the center of your telescope, you have

00:32:17.720 to tilt it, because it comes in at an angle.

00:32:20.260 So the analogy he used is a go when it's like rain.

00:32:22.660 If it's raining straight down, but you run through it, even though the rain's falling

00:32:25.820 straight down, it's going to look like it's coming at an angle.

00:32:27.840 And if you run faster, the angle's going to increase, right?

00:32:30.600 So the idea is the Earth is moving around the sun, making the star look like it's coming

00:32:34.420 at an angle because of the orbital velocity of the Earth.

00:32:36.900 Now, he claimed at the beginning, that's why we have stellar aberration, because of orbital

00:32:40.740 velocity.

00:32:41.340 We had nothing to do with ether.

00:32:42.340 You claimed that it comes at an angle because of orbital velocity.

00:32:45.180 What he pointed out was, well, wait, if water's going to slow down the light, that's going

00:32:48.860 to increase the amount of time it takes for the light to get through the telescope, it

00:32:52.420 would be like speeding up in the rain.

00:32:54.140 So it should actually increase the angle.

00:32:56.360 It did not.

00:32:57.400 It has nothing to do with ether.

00:33:00.500 The fact that it may also have an implication, sure, because either light's in the medium or

00:33:04.660 it's not.

00:33:05.140 The test isn't about the ether.

00:33:06.720 The test is about actually isolating the causal mechanism of stellar aberration.

00:33:10.320 So my question is, if you're claiming that it does tilt because of the orbital velocity

00:33:14.980 initially, you claimed that was the cause of stellar aberration, why didn't it change

00:33:18.700 when you increased the amount of time it took the light to get through the telescope?

00:33:22.000 Because the water slows it down on all axes.

00:33:24.240 Now, real quick, can you define stellar aberration for those that don't know?

00:33:27.320 So stellar aberration is what I was talking about with how the rain, if you're running in

00:33:30.640 the rain, you've got to tilt your umbrella down.

00:33:32.380 But it could also be the wind is blowing the rain at you, and that's why you have to tilt your

00:33:36.420 umbrella down.

00:33:37.400 But regardless of that, the idea is the stellar light, the light of the star is deflected

00:33:43.300 either due to our motion around the sun, or if you want to believe the sun's motion

00:33:46.960 and the universe's motion around us, but it's that relative motion that's causing it to

00:33:51.380 deflect.

00:33:51.960 And so depending on what time of year you look at a star, it's going to be in a very slightly

00:33:55.720 different place.

00:33:56.360 It's about 20 arc seconds different depending on which time of year you're looking at the

00:33:59.780 star.

00:34:00.340 That's the aberration, just to make it clear.

00:34:02.600 Yeah, that's the basic aberration.

00:34:05.060 So that's stellar aberration in a nutshell.

00:34:07.380 Now, what Austin is suggesting is that we should see a different deflection, even without

00:34:11.800 ether, that we would see a different amount of deflection if we slow the light down in

00:34:15.820 water before it reaches the end of the telescope.

00:34:18.280 But the problem with that is that it suggests that water would have some way of knowing that,

00:34:23.420 oh, this vector towards the bottom of the telescope, I'm going to slow it down that

00:34:28.320 direction, but I'm not going to have an impact on the lateral motion due to Earth moving.

00:34:32.340 No, that doesn't work that way.

00:34:33.840 It's going to slow it down, and it will still reach the bottom of the telescope in the same

00:34:37.460 angle that it came into the telescope on, and that's exactly what happened.

00:34:40.280 Okay, so let's make sure it makes literally no sense.

00:34:43.120 It is, if the Earth is moving underneath the starlight, as it goes through the water, it's

00:34:47.660 going to slow down.

00:34:48.620 Now the Earth has moved further underneath the star than if it had gone through without

00:34:53.000 the water, because now it's taking the starlight longer to get to you.

00:34:56.480 The Earth is going to keep supposedly moving 67,000 miles per hour.

00:34:59.500 That means it's going to have a greater angle.

00:35:02.440 There is no even mainstream academic rebuttal to this, so your hand-waved dismissal, claiming

00:35:07.480 that I'm invoking the sentience of water, doesn't even make any sense.

00:35:11.360 So you've been sadly wrong.

00:35:12.680 It's not a hand-waved dismissal.

00:35:14.140 And you're assuming—see, your description of it there has an implicit assumption that

00:35:19.600 because Earth keeps moving, that the light will have a greater deflection in the water.

00:35:24.000 However, that would imply that this inherent motion caused by Earth's motion, this stellar

00:35:30.160 aberration, has some way of still manifesting differentially from the downward motion of

00:35:35.700 the photon down the telescope tube.

00:35:37.360 It doesn't have any way of doing that.

00:35:38.980 That's what you claimed.

00:35:39.820 You claimed the reason it came in at an angle was the Earth was moving.

00:35:43.000 The reason it came in at an angle is because the Earth is moving.

00:35:45.920 But when it hits the water, it slows down, but it slows down equally in all directions.

00:35:49.380 That means the angle through the telescope is still the same, and it still reaches the bottom

00:35:52.760 of the telescope—

00:35:53.760 What makes a difference whether it's going lateral?

00:35:55.960 That's my point.

00:35:56.880 It doesn't.

00:35:57.680 It's a—

00:35:58.680 Okay, so then why are you adding that in there, then?

00:36:01.280 You keep saying that.

00:36:02.160 Because Austin's description implies that it's only going to slow down as far as how

00:36:07.560 far vertically it's coming down.

00:36:08.960 Imagine the star is right above you.

00:36:10.460 How slow it's coming down the telescope, right?

00:36:13.940 Vertically.

00:36:14.780 But in order for it to have a different angle of deflection due to the water, it has to continue

00:36:19.800 to move at the same rate laterally that it did when it entered the telescope.

00:36:23.720 But that requires ether, because if it doesn't, if the ether isn't there, because if the ether

00:36:29.600 is not there to entrain it, then there's nothing to cause it to deflect at a different angle

00:36:35.180 as it comes down the water.

00:36:36.660 It will simply slow down along its velocity vector, which in this case, in my example,

00:36:41.920 is vertical.

00:36:42.660 It'll just slow down, right?

00:36:44.340 It's not going to go—

00:36:45.300 The Earth is still moving.

00:36:46.280 The Earth is still moving underneath it.

00:36:47.780 Right, the Earth is still moving.

00:36:48.220 You're contradicting yourself.

00:36:49.440 You're claiming it causes an angle change because of the Earth moving underneath it,

00:36:53.180 and then you're turning around and claiming that the Earth moving underneath it wouldn't

00:36:56.140 cause a angle change.

00:36:57.300 I'm not claiming an angle change during the water transit, though.

00:37:00.400 You're claiming—

00:37:00.900 You can't pick and choose.

00:37:01.620 Either it's causing it or it's not causing it.

00:37:03.560 And there's no mainstream academic rebuttal.

00:37:05.820 This is the explanation, though.

00:37:06.860 It's already angled when it enters the telescope tube, right?

00:37:10.280 It's not going to suddenly change angle because water's slowing it down.

00:37:13.740 Because water's slowing it down in all directions, so you can't have an angle change unless something

00:37:18.140 is entraining it, which would be ether.

00:37:20.240 Are you going to move on, man, I think?

00:37:21.200 Okay, yeah.

00:37:21.520 We can move on from this, but Tim, I want you to pull up Wernher von Braun's tombstone.

00:37:26.320 And obviously, these guys are doctors, scientists, astronomers.

00:37:29.600 I'm not a scientist whatsoever.

00:37:31.180 Obviously, you know, I'm an idiot.

00:37:33.160 But this is why I believe in this stuff.

00:37:35.960 Now, if you type in Wernher von Braun, you type in his headstone, it has Psalm 19.1.

00:37:40.600 Yeah.

00:37:40.920 If you look up Psalm 19.1, and for the people that are playing at home that don't know who

00:37:44.480 Wernher von Braun is, Wernher von Braun was...

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00:39:13.540 It was a Nazi that we brought over during Operation Paperclip, and a lot of people called Tim a Nazi,

00:39:17.720 they called me a Nazi, but believe it or not, our space program was created by an actual Nazi.

00:39:22.300 Yeah, we took him, right?

00:39:24.120 Yes, Operation Paperclip.

00:39:25.540 We not just took him, we took a lot of their scientists.

00:39:27.740 What was the Japanese, what was it called?

00:39:30.080 There was two operations, weren't there?

00:39:31.280 We took the Japanese scientists and the Nazi scientists?

00:39:35.240 Paperclip's the one we took after World War II, and then Russia got a lot of the...

00:39:39.220 Was it Unit 571 or whatever?

00:39:40.340 Russia got a lot of the technology, but my point is, I think it's very...

00:39:43.980 731.

00:39:44.720 Wait.

00:39:45.120 So that Warner Von Braun, Psalm 19-1, and if you look that up, if you look this up,

00:39:49.460 this is the architect of our space program, right, Scott?

00:39:52.520 So, fun story about that.

00:39:54.920 Before I even knew about this tombstone, I used to...

00:39:57.620 I like to play video games occasionally.

00:39:59.500 I have an Xbox 360 profile, that's how old I am, right?

00:40:02.380 And my old Xbox 360 profile, I'm a Christian, I had that same verse on my Xbox 360 profile,

00:40:06.880 but it doesn't mean that I think that there's a physical dome.

00:40:09.500 It refers to...

00:40:10.440 Let me read it.

00:40:11.860 So, Werner Von Braun, 1912, 1977, Psalms 19-1, which reads,

00:40:16.100 The heavens declare the glory of God, the skies proclaim the work of His hands.

00:40:21.640 And in some translations, they refer to the heavens as the firmament.

00:40:24.720 In the actual Hebrew, it says firmament.

00:40:27.820 Firmament, firm, stereom, as the Greek.

00:40:30.140 Is that King James?

00:40:30.540 Let's try...

00:40:31.340 Do you want me to do King James?

00:40:32.480 Which version of the Bible?

00:40:33.620 Yeah, King James.

00:40:35.020 21st century King James?

00:40:37.060 Sure.

00:40:37.940 Yeah, there you go.

00:40:38.480 The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth His handiwork.

00:40:41.620 Yeah, and this will spill over into a theological debate, obviously, the biblical cosmology.

00:40:45.440 So, Elon's faking it.

00:40:47.580 Maybe.

00:40:48.980 Maybe.

00:40:49.780 I mean, there's all kinds of...

00:40:51.760 Who knows what happens when you get up there, how far you're going, what it is.

00:40:54.600 Elon's whole mission is to shatter the firmament, to escape the realm, or what?

00:40:58.620 It's funny, because I hope this gets clipped, and I hope Elon sees this,

00:41:02.200 because Elon all day long brags about how these rockets are taking off and going to the ISS or whatever.

00:41:08.540 Yet, Tim, this is a provable fact.

00:41:10.400 The farthest that NASA has ever sent a rocket is in 1969 through 1972, the Apollo moon missions

00:41:16.740 that went through the Van Allen radiation belt, which, you know, that's a whole kit and caboodle.

00:41:20.620 Like, how were we able to get this film through this deadly radiation back and forth?

00:41:24.780 How did that work?

00:41:26.000 But my point is, we had rockets that could go 257,000 miles in 1969.

00:41:31.200 And today, the farthest we can go is low-Earth orbit, which is, what is it, 120 miles?

00:41:36.960 What is low-Earth orbit?

00:41:37.920 How far is it?

00:41:38.420 500.

00:41:39.120 Yeah, like 500, I'm saying.

00:41:40.660 So, rockets in 1969 could go 257,000 miles, and now the farthest we can go is 500 miles.

00:41:47.900 It's a pretty big reduction, considering it's been 60 years.

00:41:51.100 Elaborate on that.

00:41:52.040 What do you mean it's the farthest we can go?

00:41:54.020 The farthest we can go right now, Barack Obama, you can pull it up, it's called low-Earth orbit.

00:41:58.040 That's where the ISS is.

00:41:59.280 The question is, are you talking about the limitations of technology?

00:42:03.420 But we didn't have that limit of technology in 1969.

00:42:05.640 No, no, I'm asking if that's what you mean, because if I said, I can't get to the gas station,

00:42:10.900 am I talking about running there?

00:42:12.180 Am I talking about driving a car there?

00:42:14.360 Is my car broken?

00:42:15.820 Like, when you say the farthest, okay, my point is this.

00:42:19.940 Did we have rockets capable of going that fast we no longer have?

00:42:22.700 Or is the technology and knowledge of how to build those rockets missing?

00:42:25.900 Well, we had that technology, and then we destroyed that technology.

00:42:28.520 That's according to NASA, is that we had the technology to go to the moon, and we accidentally

00:42:33.000 destroyed it.

00:42:33.820 And not only did we destroy the technology and all the blueprints, but we also accidentally

00:42:39.860 destroyed all the telemetry data that gives us coordinates of every point that the Apollo

00:42:44.680 mission was orbiting the moon or on its journey.

00:42:48.660 I hear what you're saying, and the difficult thing is, we're talking about the U.S. government,

00:42:52.800 so it's kind of like...

00:42:53.700 Do you trust them?

00:42:54.920 No, it's like, do you think they're competent?

00:42:57.220 Do you think that they have accurate record keeping?

00:42:59.780 What is it?

00:43:00.240 The DOD just failed another audit, like, seventh time in a row.

00:43:02.700 For $800 billion.

00:43:04.400 People have no idea what they're doing in terms of records, and probably a lot of it's

00:43:07.880 on purpose.

00:43:09.000 Well, this is how you know it's fake, though, Tim, because there's all these movies where

00:43:13.080 they'll show, like, this is how you know it's fake, because there's, like, a DEI movie

00:43:17.600 of, like, black women, and no offense, I love black women, I love Medea, but they literally

00:43:22.340 made a movie that, like, a black woman with a calculator is able to hand compute our calculations

00:43:28.660 to go to the moon.

00:43:29.040 What does that mean it's fake?

00:43:30.300 Because a black woman can't sit there with a calculator, have you seen it?

00:43:33.780 But why is it going to be able to explain it?

00:43:34.860 Oh, no, no, no, hold on.

00:43:35.680 Are you emphasizing this?

00:43:36.640 Yeah, it's black, what does that have to do with it?

00:43:38.460 Well, it's nothing about the race, I'm just saying, no offense to it, I don't think a

00:43:41.700 woman could do it.

00:43:42.560 It's not, I mean, it's not, it's nothing to do with race.

00:43:44.420 But a man, but a man could.

00:43:45.700 But I'm saying, that's the DEI, it's like, they want to make you think, like, you know,

00:43:49.020 oh, it was all because of...

00:43:50.240 No, no, no, you know.

00:43:51.100 The reason they made the movie was DEI.

00:43:53.240 The person existed.

00:43:55.040 And I don't think they did much.

00:43:56.500 But I'm just saying, our space technology...

00:43:59.260 That's white supremacy, Alex.

00:44:00.340 Well, maybe a little bit.

00:44:01.640 But our space technology is the only thing to retard.

00:44:05.720 We have not gone further in space.

00:44:08.660 We've actually traveled less far.

00:44:10.140 Alex, can you name any of the technologies we lost?

00:44:13.540 Yeah.

00:44:17.260 We can't shoot all...

00:44:19.340 Okay, first of all, I can't just name off the top of my head, but I can tell you this

00:44:22.580 much when it goes to the moon landing.

00:44:24.120 The manpower that it took us to get to the moon, yet we get to the moon and the moon

00:44:27.300 is one-sixth our Earth's atmosphere of gravity, yet the rocket power that it took to blast

00:44:33.820 off from the moon was not even one-thousandth the power that it took us to leave the Earth.

00:44:38.860 And then on top of that, if you see...

00:44:40.400 Well, now we're talking about the moon landing.

00:44:41.800 Yeah.

00:44:41.980 Because the moon landing is involved in this, and you look at the moon landing clips,

00:44:44.800 where the blast crater is, there's no dust, there's nothing.

00:44:48.140 There's not even dust on the...

00:44:49.980 Well, so let's, we'll go back a little bit, because, you know, I don't want to jump too

00:44:52.920 far, but if you put a tag on that, I don't want to miss that point.

00:44:55.800 We lose technology all the time.

00:44:57.920 It's actually like a well-known thing.

00:44:59.920 I mean, one of the greatest travesties of human history was the burning of the Library

00:45:04.560 of Alexandria.

00:45:06.020 Who knows what information was lost?

00:45:07.660 Probably a lot of stupid stuff was in there, but there's probably a lot of stuff that we're

00:45:10.980 like, wow, correct me if I'm wrong.

00:45:13.260 And I mean, it's literally.

00:45:14.520 Wasn't there something big about Romans had concrete that sat underwater?

00:45:17.320 We're not quite sure how they did it.

00:45:19.000 We lost a formula.

00:45:20.220 Yeah.

00:45:20.420 Didn't get it back until, what, 17 or 1800s?

00:45:23.480 Yeah.

00:45:24.180 And so when people say things like, oh, well, how come we can't do this now?

00:45:27.240 And I'm like, well, I got to be honest, like, the priorities of the Cold War shifted dramatically.

00:45:32.200 And then you're asking if a government bureaucracy with filing cabinets accurately tracked those

00:45:36.240 filing cabinets.

00:45:37.020 I'm going to be like, yeah, right.

00:45:38.420 They can't figure out how to...

00:45:40.140 They just spent $70,000 on a conference table because they don't know who's spending what

00:45:44.040 where.

00:45:44.320 The government is broken and ridiculously inefficient.

00:45:47.460 Your best argument against the moon landing is that the government's too stupid to pull

00:45:50.480 something like that off.

00:45:51.200 Well, they also use incompetence as a cover, too, right?

00:45:54.620 Like, they do that.

00:45:55.620 They're actually real smart.

00:45:56.840 Well, no, no, no.

00:45:57.880 It's just a great cover where every time they do something wrong, it's like, oh, it was an

00:46:01.480 incompetent mistake.

00:46:02.920 One thing people don't know is because I heard Matt Walsh say, because I'm looking at Matt

00:46:06.700 Walsh here.

00:46:07.360 He says...

00:46:08.320 Oh, yeah, we have the thing on the screen.

00:46:09.280 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:10.000 He said, you know, too many people would be in on it.

00:46:11.800 But Krantz talks about how in the control room that the simulations were so good that

00:46:17.000 no one involved would know.

00:46:18.980 It got to the point where you couldn't tell the difference between the simulation and

00:46:21.920 the fix.

00:46:22.300 So, you know, I mean, that's a whole conversation.

00:46:24.760 Let me ask you, doctor, do you think we went to the moon?

00:46:27.660 I think it's possible to go to the moon, but I think it's very hard, especially in 1969,

00:46:34.820 to send a man to the moon.

00:46:36.440 That's where I have it.

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00:48:04.840 The difficulty.

00:48:05.860 Wouldn't they post up there be the best military positioning ever, right?

00:48:08.940 You'd just be on patrol of the world.

00:48:11.200 Well, Andy, you know how you know we didn't go to the moon because we'd have a Coca-Cola

00:48:13.960 sign on it.

00:48:15.580 It would be the best marketing tool in the world.

00:48:17.660 Well, they say that we put these laser reflectors on the moon.

00:48:20.840 Yes.

00:48:21.260 It's hard to refute if, you know, because I don't know whether it went to the moon or not.

00:48:25.000 But they say they bounce lasers off of these laser reflectors at the moon.

00:48:28.560 Yeah, exactly.

00:48:28.880 But they were able to bounce lasers off the moon before they left.

00:48:32.200 They won't tell you that part.

00:48:33.080 But if you move the laser a little off the retroreflector, you get a much lower signal.

00:48:37.600 So what's causing that?

00:48:38.560 Can you verify that?

00:48:38.580 Can you admit that you can shoot a laser off the moon?

00:48:40.840 Let's get, what's his name?

00:48:42.060 What's the guy with the big lasers on YouTube here?

00:48:44.900 Can't think of his name.

00:48:46.340 Styropyro.

00:48:46.760 Let's get Styropyro involved.

00:48:47.980 I want to shoot lasers.

00:48:48.640 I was actually, a long time ago, I was with some buddies and we were working on a laser

00:48:54.340 project with crazy ideas of using refraction in the clouds to create a visible signal so

00:48:59.360 that you could transmit data long range by using a high-powered infrared

00:49:03.060 laser.

00:49:04.280 And at the point of refraction, you would actually be able to point a lens at it and collect

00:49:09.960 really low latency data, which could transmit communications simply by looking in the direction

00:49:15.580 of where you know the laser to be.

00:49:17.160 So to the human eye, they see nothing.

00:49:19.620 There's no way to intercept a radio signal because the beam of light shot straight in

00:49:23.520 the sky.

00:49:24.240 You then use a lens capable of detecting infrared and it can give you low latency data so that

00:49:29.300 you can communicate over a battlefield without someone intercepting your signals or satellite

00:49:32.800 communications.

00:49:33.340 Well, speaking of World War II, Austin, explain how the Germans were able to steal signals.

00:49:39.700 Oh, this is, yeah, this is a big.

00:49:41.140 Listen to this, Tim, you'll like this.

00:49:42.380 It's a big flat earth proof.

00:49:43.520 So in World War II, in World War II, the Germans developed a, so what they would do is they would

00:49:48.860 fly the planes in blind, right?

00:49:50.680 So no one knew.

00:49:51.440 So it would be pitch black and they would use radar beams to guide the planes.

00:49:55.680 And so they would use intersecting beams and they would know, okay, this is where I need

00:49:59.860 to go.

00:50:00.400 That way no one knew where they were at.

00:50:02.000 Then they thought, wait, we can do this kind of in reverse and we can attack this way.

00:50:05.700 We can show the plane where to drop the bomb if we actually intersect the beams.

00:50:09.960 Once it gets there and it has a coherent signal, it'll know, oh, I dropped the bomb.

00:50:13.660 So this was actually proposed to the British and they turned it down because they're like,

00:50:17.820 no, this won't work because the radius of the earth is going to block those signals way

00:50:21.240 before any tactical position.

00:50:23.080 The Germans did it and the Germans did it from four or 500 miles away.

00:50:26.840 They intercepted these two signals and first attempt just destroyed a warehouse that was

00:50:30.460 manufacturing engines and stuff.

00:50:32.240 And it should have been blocked at roughly 30 miles, according to the globe earth math.

00:50:37.720 And they sent it hundreds of miles and successfully blew up the building.

00:50:42.760 I'm definitely open to some type of explanation for that because that is not physically possible

00:50:47.720 and it has to have specific coherency.

00:50:50.280 So, you know, beams, obviously they spread out and diverge as they go further, but it had to

00:50:54.360 have a maximum width of a few hundred yards intercepted in a very precise way so that

00:50:58.460 the plane could blow.

00:50:59.060 Now, here's the other issue.

00:51:00.200 The Allies claimed that their ability to bomb so accurately at night was because they ate

00:51:05.040 carrots.

00:51:06.700 You guys know the story?

00:51:07.760 No.

00:51:08.740 A rumor was spread that there was high carrot consumption, which improved their eyesight.

00:51:12.820 And that's why they were so good at hitting targets at night when it was actually a

00:51:15.420 technological development.

00:51:16.180 They didn't want the Germans to know that we had.

00:51:17.880 And so my point in this is the challenge, obviously, for all of these conversations goes

00:51:25.160 back to just like the standard philosophical, are you just trusting something you read?

00:51:30.380 And so how much of it is I did a study that could not confirm X, which is very limited data

00:51:36.520 because you have to try and replicate it multiple times.

00:51:38.900 And then, you know, depending on your view of modern science, you'd want some kind of peer

00:51:42.500 review.

00:51:42.760 So if you're telling a story about how the Germans did this thing, it's like, or they

00:51:46.300 lied.

00:51:47.500 Or the Germans lied.

00:51:48.060 They blew up the warehouse at night somehow, right?

00:51:50.580 Yeah.

00:51:51.120 They had a spy.

00:51:53.100 And they didn't want the Allies to know that they had a spy who gave them accurate information

00:51:56.520 and timing and telemetry, et cetera.

00:51:58.740 Had to communicate.

00:51:59.300 Or they stole the signal.

00:52:01.180 But the challenge is that there's good reason for...

00:52:04.760 So one of the questions about aliens, why does the United States claim...

00:52:09.720 You know, these hearings where they're like, there are aliens here.

00:52:12.140 And then you had that one guy in the 90s.

00:52:14.460 I can't remember his name, but he's on Joe Rogan.

00:52:15.960 He was talking about how he saw aliens.

00:52:17.540 The purpose of that is actually relatively simple.

00:52:19.640 They could be trying to convince our adversaries that we hold secret technologies that can

00:52:24.400 destroy them if they can't figure out what we have.

00:52:26.760 So for the Germans to say like, oh, we did this thing with radar, the US is like, but

00:52:31.680 that's impossible.

00:52:32.260 We can't figure it out.

00:52:33.500 It would...

00:52:34.220 The confusion and the fear in your enemy is valuable to lie.

00:52:37.660 So those stories could be...

00:52:38.880 Who knows?

00:52:39.160 Sure, but if we get to the point where we all agree, if we were to agree that that would

00:52:42.780 falsify the globe, if real, now we've made like fruitful progress, right?

00:52:46.560 Because then we'd be like, well, let's try to imitate this.

00:52:48.580 Now, obviously, imitating that's not going to happen, really.

00:52:50.700 Occam's razor would suggest the Germans just lied.

00:52:53.820 Maybe.

00:52:54.220 It's actually acknowledged.

00:52:55.320 It's acknowledged by even the allies that they use this technology.

00:52:58.400 And I've...

00:52:59.760 The supposed...

00:53:00.440 I'll even go a step further and tell you the supposed explanation as to how it happened

00:53:04.120 on the globe, and this is all anyone's ever said, is diffraction, that basically the Earth

00:53:08.980 would block the beam and then it would fill back in behind it, then it would keep doing

00:53:12.780 that.

00:53:13.220 The problem is that wouldn't maintain the coherency needed to intercept the beams, and

00:53:17.060 I've never got a next rebuttal.

00:53:19.700 So good point.

00:53:21.100 Obviously, I wasn't there.

00:53:21.980 I can't verify that.

00:53:22.960 You know, I've gone and tested the Earth myself.

00:53:24.480 That's actually my primary reason.

00:53:26.320 You believe the Earth is round?

00:53:27.640 Yeah.

00:53:28.180 So what is your...

00:53:29.360 How do you feel about it?

00:53:30.020 I don't know.

00:53:30.580 I have never heard this before, so I'd have to investigate it.

00:53:33.620 But your point, if I can elaborate on your point, that, you know, they could have lied,

00:53:38.160 it could have been this, could have been that, and we don't know, okay?

00:53:41.620 So let's go back to this Earth-fixed or not-fixed issue, and there's another experiment that

00:53:48.540 was interpreted in two different ways by many scientists, and that was the 1887 Michelson-Morley

00:53:57.440 experiment.

00:53:59.060 Very simple experiment.

00:54:00.380 You probably know about it, right?

00:54:02.040 Okay.

00:54:02.480 So if the Earth is moving around the Sun at about 20 miles a second, and you shoot a light

00:54:09.660 beam in the direction that the Earth is moving, that light beam should be impeded by space.

00:54:16.860 At that time, they thought ether, okay?

00:54:19.160 So space is a something.

00:54:21.100 It's not a nothing, because nothing does not exist.

00:54:23.720 So it has to be something.

00:54:25.400 Something's going to impede that light beam, and they could tell you by how much that light

00:54:30.760 beam would be impeded.

00:54:32.020 They can figure it out, okay?

00:54:33.740 The speed of the Earth.

00:54:34.860 Yeah.

00:54:35.860 So here's the problem.

00:54:38.280 It didn't show any resistance to the light beam, space, okay?

00:54:44.140 They couldn't measure anything.

00:54:45.300 They measured just a little bit, but not enough for an Earth going around the Sun, okay?

00:54:49.740 So the obvious interpretation of that experiment is, well, the Earth isn't moving.

00:54:57.660 That's why there wasn't any impedance of the light beam, okay?

00:55:01.940 But we can't have that, because we're all Copernicans, you see.

00:55:05.300 We believe since the time of Copernicus that the Earth does move around the Sun.

00:55:09.080 So there has to be another explanation.

00:55:10.860 This is where your lie may come in, you see.

00:55:14.540 The explanation is, there is no ether, and the light beam couldn't be impeded because

00:55:19.840 the ether doesn't exist, which is a la special relativity.

00:55:24.920 That's Einstein's special relativity in a nutshell, okay?

00:55:28.420 So here's another way to explain the same experiment as opposed to a fixed Earth.

00:55:34.760 Which one's correct, okay?

00:55:36.960 So we went on for a while where, okay, Einstein has to be correct.

00:55:41.300 We all want to be Copernicans.

00:55:43.060 We don't want to kiss the feet of the Pope.

00:55:44.900 So we'll take his explanation, okay?

00:55:48.220 And then, 10 years later, Einstein comes back and tells us, well, the special theory really

00:55:57.160 doesn't work all that well because it's in a pristine environment.

00:56:01.680 You have no inertial forces.

00:56:03.160 You have no ether.

00:56:04.100 You have no nothing.

00:56:05.240 And that's why the light beam can go the same speed.

00:56:08.400 But what if we have a big universe where we have gravity, we have inertial forces, we have

00:56:14.380 heat, we have all kinds of things that could impede that light beam.

00:56:19.840 And so guess what?

00:56:22.040 Einstein took back the ether that he had gotten rid of in the special relativity theory, okay?

00:56:31.720 So if you take back the ether, then how are you going to explain Michelson-Morley?

00:56:36.140 Yeah.

00:56:36.360 And Wikipedia will tell you that Michelson-Morley disproved the ether.

00:56:39.580 And everyone repeats that script.

00:56:41.780 They don't know what he just said.

00:56:42.840 You think there is an ether?

00:56:44.820 Yeah.

00:56:45.500 But what is it?

00:56:47.060 Can you explain what it is?

00:56:48.320 Yeah.

00:56:48.780 It would be, there's many things it could be.

00:56:51.840 It could be an electron-positron dipole because they found that in the 1931 Anderson experiment.

00:56:57.740 It could be Planck particles at 10 to the minus 35 meters in length because we know that space

00:57:04.720 cannot be nothing.

00:57:06.200 It has to be a something.

00:57:07.340 And if it's going to be a something, it has to be the smallest something that's possible

00:57:12.160 to exist as matter.

00:57:13.260 So does that mean that if it's Planck particles or whatever, there's just like an infinite,

00:57:19.640 not necessarily literally infinite, but just like a ridiculously large sum of all of them

00:57:23.520 within and around us all the time?

00:57:25.380 Everywhere.

00:57:25.700 Or you're saying in a vacuum?

00:57:26.500 Yeah, because the atom itself is 99% empty space.

00:57:30.700 And that empty space you're saying, though, is going to be something.

00:57:33.000 It's going to be something.

00:57:33.760 Yeah, and Tesla actually said that he believed it was a substance that was tenuous beyond

00:57:39.300 conception, meaning like thinner than, so an actual homogenous medium, basically, that

00:57:45.380 it's like the air is right now, only it's an additional medium, but it's so thin that

00:57:50.180 it's like beyond conception.

00:57:51.300 And a fascinating thing that I love to bring up and we brought up on Tim Castile two days

00:57:55.280 ago was the discovery of air as matter, the eventual discovery of air as its weight, and

00:58:00.320 the eventual discovery of the composition of air that early humans didn't understand that

00:58:05.700 there was actually a matter in front of them.

00:58:07.760 Right.

00:58:08.200 They thought there was nothing.

00:58:09.360 Yeah.

00:58:09.540 And then, as the story goes, there's a couple stories.

00:58:12.360 One of them I just read the other day was that they flipped a bucket upside down and put

00:58:15.380 it in water and water wouldn't go in it.

00:58:17.000 And they were like, there's something in there.

00:58:18.600 And they're like, hey.

00:58:19.680 And then it wasn't until, and unless all of our understanding of science is wrong, which

00:58:24.940 I say a lot, was the 1700s with, who did we look up?

00:58:29.020 He actually figured out the weight of air.

00:58:31.700 And so it's fascinating.

00:58:33.480 It's fascinating because we take so much for granted.

00:58:35.660 Like the discovery of zero is fascinating in mathematics.

00:58:39.940 Early humans didn't conceive of that in math and how it behaves and how it affected our

00:58:44.640 understanding of the universe.

00:58:47.740 So, you know, just simply put, to wrap that thought, there's so much we don't know that

00:58:52.340 would dramatically change everything we think we know about the universe, which could happen

00:58:56.080 as soon as humans discover another concept or, you know, zero is kind of fascinating because

00:59:00.580 it's so obvious to us now.

00:59:02.740 It's just ingrained in us.

00:59:04.360 Yeah, zero, right?

00:59:06.140 But there were generations of civilization where they were like, huh?

00:59:09.960 And then somebody went, dude, it was an Indian guy.

00:59:11.840 And he was like, look at this.

00:59:12.880 And then they were like, whoa, that makes sense.

00:59:16.060 Cool stuff, huh?

00:59:16.840 That's an important point, right?

00:59:18.500 Is this like dogma is so antithetical to science or discovery and knowledge.

00:59:23.720 Throughout all of history, someone's made a random discovery that shattered the current

00:59:28.160 paradigm, right?

00:59:28.920 That's what happens.

00:59:30.540 Every time, the mob role ridicules those who point out that there may be alternative or

00:59:37.040 the evidence doesn't match it.

00:59:38.620 Until that happens, everyone switches overnight, right?

00:59:41.360 Let me ask you, how do you explain gravity?

00:59:46.520 Gravity goes right back to the Planck particle, I think.

00:59:50.740 Now, there's a lot of theories out there about gravity.

00:59:53.820 But if this book is 99% Planck particle and, you know, whatever paper's made of...

01:00:02.500 But you just mean ether.

01:00:04.060 You could say ether.

01:00:05.140 I mean, we could use that term.

01:00:05.780 Do you think it is Planck particle?

01:00:07.280 I think, yeah.

01:00:08.040 It has to be the smallest possible material substance that nature allows.

01:00:14.340 Or thinnest.

01:00:14.900 Because if it's not the smallest, then you're going to have something there between the

01:00:18.740 particles that can't be nothing, has to be something.

01:00:22.100 So now you're going to have to go back to the smallest possible particle and the smallest

01:00:26.580 possible distance.

01:00:27.700 This is already known in quantum mechanics, okay?

01:00:30.880 So if everything is filled with Planck particles, then if you have matter made up of, you know,

01:00:39.660 protons, neutrons, electrons, and that can exist in a Planck particle medium, then it's

01:00:47.940 going to create a vacuum, okay?

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01:02:17.940 Do you need me to elaborate on that?

01:02:20.640 Yeah, we'll explain.

01:02:21.340 Are you saying we're being pulled down by vacuum forces or?

01:02:23.580 Yeah, that's pretty much what it is.

01:02:25.320 It's a vacuum force because you have matter impeding on the Planck particle,

01:02:30.260 and now the Planck particle isn't at its optimal density.

01:02:34.140 If it's not at an optimal density and nature abhors a vacuum,

01:02:38.780 then it's going to try to compensate for that lack of optimal density and start pooling.

01:02:45.920 Whatever's out there, it's going to start pooling.

01:02:47.940 So do you think that there is a firmament and there's no space then?

01:02:51.580 See, now this is another issue about the firmament that we need to know,

01:02:55.020 which is a lot of the theories are based on the fact that the firmament is a solid thing.

01:03:01.140 That's why you have the picture of the dome.

01:03:03.840 That's what you get in Genesis 1-6-9, that it's a solid thing.

01:03:09.720 Yeah, it looks like a glass barrier, right, figuratively.

01:03:13.020 Yeah, but whatever it is, it could be gold.

01:03:15.160 Who knows?

01:03:15.960 It's solid.

01:03:16.760 Radiation.

01:03:17.900 Well, that's not solid.

01:03:19.540 You're saying the presumption is that it's solid?

01:03:22.420 No, because that's what the Hebrew word means.

01:03:24.800 Oh, really?

01:03:25.500 I mean, that's why you get the word firmament, it's firm.

01:03:29.620 Yeah, but in Greek it's stereoma, which means solid.

01:03:32.040 Yeah.

01:03:32.620 But there's another facet to this Hebrew word, rakia.

01:03:36.960 And you get that in the second part of Genesis 1,

01:03:40.000 when it starts talking about the celestial bodies.

01:03:42.280 It says, God made the sun, the moon, and the stars, and put them in the firmament.

01:03:50.380 Okay?

01:03:50.980 Well, how can that be if it's solid?

01:03:53.300 They're wrong.

01:03:55.140 No, you got two meanings for the firmament.

01:03:57.640 You got one that's solid, and you got one that's ethereal.

01:04:01.180 And that's where the celestial bodies can fit in.

01:04:03.980 And if you follow the meaning of firmament, the rakia or raka,

01:04:08.020 it's another derivative of it, throughout the Old Testament,

01:04:10.560 you see those two meanings.

01:04:11.760 So let me try and get the gravity explanation then.

01:04:14.620 Well, gravity's fake, and this is how we know,

01:04:17.060 because it's all buoyancy and density, because this I can prove.

01:04:20.840 Why does a balloon float, Tim?

01:04:22.620 Archimedes' law of displacement.

01:04:24.280 Which was discovered long before gravity, right?

01:04:27.420 Oh, yeah.

01:04:27.960 We put the little g in there now.

01:04:30.420 Because gravity comes from gravitas, which means heavy.

01:04:36.040 So it just means that objects are heavy, they have a weight.

01:04:38.680 As to what causes objects to have weight, that's the real question, right?

01:04:43.980 Right, so the issue then would be, I'm trying to understand, and maybe I'm getting it wrong.

01:04:48.980 The Earth is massive, and with Planck particles occupying 99% of space,

01:04:53.940 there is a massive vacuum that is the Earth, pulling everything towards it.

01:04:57.600 Well, the Earth also has Planck particles in it.

01:05:00.680 That's what I mean.

01:05:01.560 Oh, okay.

01:05:02.140 So the Earth is effectively this gigantic structure with massive vacuum force pulling everything around it to it.

01:05:07.360 That's right.

01:05:08.080 That's right.

01:05:08.520 What's the conventional theory of gravity?

01:05:13.800 So, and to be clear, I'm not a physicist.

01:05:16.500 I'm just an amateur astronomer who enjoys looking at the stars.

01:05:19.820 Are you a doctor?

01:05:20.980 I'm a doctor of neuroscience.

01:05:21.680 Then we'll say doctor.

01:05:23.100 Keep that part quiet.

01:05:24.100 You're a doctor.

01:05:24.620 Yeah, no, I don't know much about theoretical physics and about, you know, what causes mass to have, you know, gravity.

01:05:36.300 That's outside of my wheelhouse, to be honest.

01:05:39.920 Well, it's the theory of relativity.

01:05:41.560 It says that gravity is the bending and warping of space.

01:05:43.560 It's the effect of the bending and warping of space-time, and that it displaces the space-time, causes a gravity well,

01:05:48.680 and basically objects fall inside this well.

01:05:50.540 Back in the day, it was Newtonian, which is that matter inherently has some property that pulls things to it.

01:05:56.780 And actually, Newton said that he couldn't understand it.

01:05:58.880 It must be God doing it.

01:06:00.720 You know, and most people won't talk about that.

01:06:02.320 He just said God must be doing it.

01:06:03.760 He threw his hands up.

01:06:04.360 He said there had to be an ether if it existed because there had to be mutual contact between the bodies and stuff like that.

01:06:09.200 But this is interesting because people will say, like, hey, stupid flat-earther, what's gravity, right?

01:06:13.340 But the mainstream model doesn't have a viable model for gravity.

01:06:17.660 It's not even remotely close.

01:06:18.980 Is the flat Earth—I've read this, and it may not be the actual one, but what I've read was that the Earth is moving upwards?

01:06:26.620 No, no, no.

01:06:27.320 Total straw, man.

01:06:28.360 Total straw.

01:06:29.020 Insane straw.

01:06:29.620 But, Austin, you don't believe in relativity, right?

01:06:32.000 I mean, you don't believe that the sun is 93 million miles away?

01:06:34.400 You don't believe that—

01:06:35.300 You're conflating things.

01:06:36.320 So I believe in the principle of relativity.

01:06:38.980 I don't believe in the theory of relativity.

01:06:40.840 It's ridiculous.

01:06:41.700 What's the difference?

01:06:42.280 What do you mean by it?

01:06:42.740 Meaning that things are relative.

01:06:44.460 Like, I can be moving in a car, and it looks like the tree's moving.

01:06:46.900 Obviously, that principle's real long before Einstein was even a thing.

01:06:50.480 But the theory of relativity is—

01:06:52.020 As a matter of fact, Bellarmine used that against Galileo, the theory of relativity.

01:06:55.320 Yeah.

01:06:55.680 Principle of relativity.

01:06:56.440 Principle, exactly.

01:06:57.260 But gravity doesn't work at all in the mainstream model.

01:07:00.840 It's such a misnomer.

01:07:01.760 In 1933, Fritz Zwicky looked at a coma cluster.

01:07:05.420 So it was like a cluster of galaxies all together.

01:07:07.060 And to keep the galaxies together, there had to be a certain amount of gravitational force, right?

01:07:13.060 So gravitational field had to be a certain strength.

01:07:15.380 And it only had 1% of the mass needed based on the gravitational prediction.

01:07:20.540 Gravity was off by 99%.

01:07:22.480 To this day, it's off—dark matter is what they called it.

01:07:26.220 At first, they called it missing mass.

01:07:27.940 Then they just plugged in the value to fix it, and now it's called dark matter, completely undefined.

01:07:32.300 It's just invisible, effectively, is what dark is.

01:07:34.240 Yeah, it's like we can't detect what it is, we don't know what it is, but it clearly has some kind of gravitational effect on—

01:07:38.600 We can see gravitational lensing in galactic clusters.

01:07:41.700 We can see that, you know—

01:07:42.720 What does that have to do with dark matter, though?

01:07:44.720 Because galactic clusters have a lot of dark matter, and so if you look at the—

01:07:48.220 What is dark matter?

01:07:50.080 If you look at galactic clusters, they seem to be lensing light.

01:07:54.280 And if you tally up the mass that you expect to see in those galaxies based on the amount of light that you're getting from the galaxies, it doesn't add up.

01:08:00.380 It doesn't seem—

01:08:01.020 It doesn't add up according to what?

01:08:02.160 So Wikipedia, our best friend, says dark matter is a hypothetical form of matter that does not interact with light or other electromagnetic radiation.

01:08:10.340 Dark matter is implied by gravitational effect, which cannot be explained by general relativity unless more matter is present than can be observed.

01:08:17.620 Now, that's fascinating because that sounds to me—I hate to say it, but it sounds like they have this theory, and they go,

01:08:23.220 Okay, well, the theory can't explain this thing, so something must be there then, I guess.

01:08:26.620 Exactly. It's almost religious.

01:08:28.260 But I'm not saying it's wrong. It's like Sudoku, right?

01:08:31.840 We figure this is what's—there is thing here.

01:08:35.880 You know, we look at the numbers, and we say two, five, or six must be in this space.

01:08:39.380 So my point is simply—I think it—obviously the point of dark matter is that we don't know,

01:08:47.380 and based on what we think about general relativity, we are plugging something in we've not yet discovered.

01:08:51.300 It's been over a century almost.

01:08:52.740 It goes back further than that.

01:08:54.480 What they're saying is that F equals MA, which was Newton's formula, okay?

01:09:02.460 Einstein's formula is G equals 8 pi tau, which is almost identical to F equals MA.

01:09:10.060 So what does F equal MA mean?

01:09:12.120 Force equals mass times acceleration.

01:09:14.980 So M is the mass.

01:09:16.800 So if you get these galaxies that are rotating 10 times faster than F equals MA will allow,

01:09:25.080 what you have to do is increase the M of the equation.

01:09:28.960 The M is the dark matter.

01:09:31.240 So you said you were a physicist?

01:09:34.140 I was a physics major.

01:09:36.100 Physics major.

01:09:36.540 Yeah, but I don't have a degree in physics.

01:09:38.480 I had a conversation with a professor once where he—this was 20 years ago.

01:09:42.980 We were talking about string theory.

01:09:44.900 I was reading a book on string theory and dimensions, and he said something like,

01:09:50.720 yeah, well, now it's M theory, and there's another dimension they just added.

01:09:54.120 And he was like, the issue is that it seems sometimes like a lot of these guys have dedicated

01:09:58.580 their whole lives to the research of this unified theory where they're trying to figure out what's

01:10:02.300 going on, and to learn that 30, 40 years of research may have been in the complete wrong

01:10:07.560 direction would be emotionally shattering to these people.

01:10:11.120 So instead of saying maybe I'm wrong, they say add another dimension to make it work.

01:10:14.120 Exactly.

01:10:14.640 Same with relativity.

01:10:15.400 Actually, PhD physicist Robert Bennett, you know him.

01:10:18.400 Shout out to him.

01:10:19.020 I talked to him quite a bit.

01:10:20.240 He said, basically, it appears you're just going to have to wait for some of them to die.

01:10:24.580 And that's actually what I was told.

01:10:28.780 This is a really fascinating conversation, because I was reading a book on—a couple different

01:10:34.020 books on quantum theory and things like this.

01:10:35.400 —and what I was told was major shifts in science happen when generations of scientists

01:10:41.700 die, because they, over a lifetime, they develop a view of the world that they are emotionally

01:10:49.000 attached to.

01:10:49.720 And that's not an insult.

01:10:50.740 And it's not to say that they're irrational or angry.

01:10:53.080 It's that they see the world in this one way, and they see all these pieces, and it's

01:10:57.420 hard for them to turn around and look at something different.

01:10:59.840 Someone who's young comes in and is navigating the space from a different perspective, and

01:11:05.300 they might notice something.

01:11:06.600 So when the older generation dies—I mean, this literally explains geocentrism and heliocentrism.

01:11:11.360 There's a generational shift, and then people now viewed the universe and it became mainstream

01:11:14.900 conventional, that we orbit around the sun.

01:11:18.460 When one generation goes, the new generation believes something totally different.

01:11:21.380 Well, this is a major part of it that people need to understand.

01:11:24.360 It's the Copernican principle.

01:11:26.220 It's the idea that the Earth doesn't—

01:11:27.400 That's what your movie's about.

01:11:28.240 Yeah.

01:11:28.680 That's what the principle is referring to, yeah.

01:11:30.480 The Earth doesn't occupy a special or unique position.

01:11:32.640 This is like a philosophy.

01:11:34.160 It's that the idea that the universe is so huge that it's illogical to think the Earth

01:11:37.940 is special.

01:11:38.080 Let me give you a good example of how a scientist can be so biased when he's looking at that so-called

01:11:43.620 evidence.

01:11:44.900 Edwin Hubble, you've heard about him?

01:11:46.500 Yeah, he has a telescope named him.

01:11:48.020 Yeah.

01:11:48.640 Famous guy.

01:11:49.460 Famous astronomer.

01:11:50.580 One of the most famous.

01:11:53.780 We cover him in the movie.

01:11:56.420 And in 1929, he used the Mount Wilson Telescope in California, 100-inch telescope.

01:12:03.600 I mean, it's as big as his table.

01:12:06.120 You could see galaxies for the first time in human history.

01:12:09.800 Wow.

01:12:10.260 So he saw them.

01:12:11.300 But he saw something peculiar in these galaxies, and that was they all had a redshift of the

01:12:18.000 light beams.

01:12:18.720 What year was this?

01:12:20.240 1929.

01:12:21.320 Okay?

01:12:21.700 And he wrote a book in 1937 describing all this called The Observational...

01:12:26.780 That's the key word.

01:12:29.540 Observational Approach to Cosmology.

01:12:31.480 Okay?

01:12:31.760 What do we see out there?

01:12:33.400 How do we interpret it?

01:12:34.960 Okay?

01:12:35.580 So he sees the redshift of all these galaxies, no blue shifts.

01:12:40.880 How do we...

01:12:41.540 I mean, this looks like the Earth is in the center of the universe.

01:12:45.240 He says it in the book.

01:12:45.840 In every direction, you see a redshift.

01:12:49.580 Right.

01:12:50.040 So can you explain redshift?

01:12:51.460 Yeah.

01:12:52.100 When light travels, it can be disturbed, take an energy from it.

01:12:56.880 And the light you see is going to shift more to the red end of the spectrum than it would

01:13:02.020 to the blue end of the spectrum.

01:13:03.320 Now, you know what light is because you see a rainbow.

01:13:05.840 You see seven colors.

01:13:07.020 So it would be like seeing a rainbow with more red than usual.

01:13:12.400 And so what does that imply?

01:13:13.760 That implies if you get redshift from every angle you're looking at, okay, and you get

01:13:18.180 no blue shifts, that means we, the observer, have to be in the center of it all.

01:13:22.980 So I got a riddle for you guys.

01:13:25.720 You are in a cabin with...

01:13:28.820 How does this go?

01:13:30.260 I'm going to ruin it.

01:13:31.180 With four windows and...

01:13:34.020 I'm ruining it.

01:13:34.840 Let me look it up.

01:13:35.620 Let me finish the story first.

01:13:36.760 Let me finish the story.

01:13:37.520 Okay.

01:13:38.340 So he says, but we can't have this.

01:13:41.660 This is horrible.

01:13:42.620 This is horrific.

01:13:44.300 We would only accept this as a last resort to explain the phenomena that the earth is

01:13:49.200 in the center.

01:13:50.200 So what do we do?

01:13:51.560 Well, here's what we do.

01:13:53.020 We take, we get rid of the center.

01:13:55.560 We get rid of the center.

01:13:57.460 Okay.

01:13:58.280 That means we get rid of Euclidean geometry and we make a balloon of the universe.

01:14:04.540 A balloon has no center.

01:14:06.380 Just has a plastic surface.

01:14:08.440 Okay.

01:14:09.240 We put the galaxies on the surface of this balloon and then we blow the balloon up.

01:14:14.520 So it gets wider and wider and wider.

01:14:17.220 What's going to happen?

01:14:18.540 Each galaxy is going to see the other galaxy move away from it.

01:14:22.300 And what's it going to see?

01:14:23.500 Redshift.

01:14:23.980 So you're in a house with four walls facing south.

01:14:26.940 You step outside and see a bear.

01:14:28.600 What color is the bear?

01:14:30.400 What?

01:14:31.300 You're in a house with four walls facing south.

01:14:34.320 You step outside and see a bear.

01:14:35.960 What color is the bear?

01:14:37.380 Four walls facing south.

01:14:39.120 You step outside and see a bear.

01:14:40.540 What color is the bear?

01:14:41.860 I don't know.

01:14:42.680 Anybody?

01:14:44.360 I believe it's...

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01:16:15.460 Four walls facing south.

01:16:17.180 Oh.

01:16:18.200 Yeah.

01:16:18.920 Okay.

01:16:19.200 What color is the bear?

01:16:20.360 It's not white.

01:16:21.340 Well, okay, it is white because you're at the North Pole.

01:16:24.760 Exactly.

01:16:25.220 The walls are facing south.

01:16:26.560 So that's what this reminds me of.

01:16:28.400 Yeah.

01:16:28.660 How could it be that your house is facing south in every direction?

01:16:31.300 Yeah.

01:16:31.920 You're clearly on the North Pole.

01:16:33.580 The only direction you can go from there would be south.

01:16:35.920 Perfect.

01:16:36.420 I'm going to use that.

01:16:38.080 And so the riddle is, what does a bear have to do with my house facing south?

01:16:42.540 But if you actually break it down, you're like, how could your walls only face south?

01:16:46.600 You're at the North Pole.

01:16:47.380 The only bear that you're going to find up there, I don't even know if polar bears are

01:16:50.000 at the North Pole, but whatever.

01:16:51.400 Okay.

01:16:51.720 That's the joke.

01:16:52.640 Let me just put the finishing touch on this, the icing on the cake.

01:16:55.000 So the guy, he says, we expand the balloon.

01:16:58.020 You see redshift.

01:16:59.120 We don't have any more earth in the center.

01:17:01.440 Problem solved.

01:17:02.960 Okay.

01:17:03.280 So Father Lemaitre comes along, Belgian priest, Catholic, and says, okay, let's do this.

01:17:08.580 Let's reverse the expansion and make it go down to what happened at the beginning.

01:17:13.880 And you can't define what happened at the beginning.

01:17:15.940 That's why they call it a singularity.

01:17:17.680 But they're figuring it took 13.78 billion years for it to start here, to start here,

01:17:23.140 and then expand to the point where we see redshift everywhere, you see.

01:17:27.360 And that's how you get out of an earth-centered universe, by rearranging the universe into

01:17:33.600 a Rymanian two-dimensional balloon instead of a Euclidean geometry with a center.

01:17:39.400 I think the argument they make is that the universe is expanding, and we are not in the

01:17:44.440 center of it, but it's still expanding around us.

01:17:49.160 Thus, you will see a redshift regardless.

01:17:52.320 Yeah.

01:17:52.440 So, you know, the way you're describing it is if you're on this balloon, even if we

01:17:56.460 were on the leftmost surface of it, as it's expanding, we're going to see things even

01:18:00.560 right next to us, redshifting as they're moving away from us.

01:18:02.560 Yeah, but we're going to see blue shifts, too.

01:18:05.200 That's the issue.

01:18:05.800 How would you see a blue shift?

01:18:07.440 Because you're closer to the light now, and it's not going to have the same kind of stretching

01:18:12.860 that it had when you were in the center.

01:18:15.500 But it's still moving away from you.

01:18:17.140 So no matter where you are on an expanding surface, everything's moving away from you.

01:18:19.960 Very slowly.

01:18:20.660 So you're not going to get an intense redshift.

01:18:22.900 It's going to shift to the blue end of the spectrum now.

01:18:25.220 Or I don't think, it wouldn't shift to blue.

01:18:27.460 It would just be less red.

01:18:28.660 Sure.

01:18:29.020 It wouldn't shift to blue.

01:18:29.840 It has nowhere else to go.

01:18:31.400 But if it's moving away from you, is it still going to be red?

01:18:33.800 It's moving slowly away from you because you're near the edge.

01:18:37.640 So why would that, so even if it's moving away from you, it could have a blue shift?

01:18:42.020 No, it'll shift more to the blue end of the spectrum.

01:18:44.840 It's not going to have the same amount of redshift.

01:18:47.640 I see what you're saying.

01:18:48.340 We're talking about degrees here.

01:18:49.380 This has actually all been disproven, too.

01:18:51.960 You can look up all the redshift anomalies.

01:18:55.940 There are things that are way closer to things that are super far away.

01:18:59.120 They have way more redshift, though.

01:19:00.780 So the universe is expanding.

01:19:02.980 No.

01:19:03.380 No, no.

01:19:03.920 That's the philosophical assumption required to get rid of the idea that the Earth could be in the center.

01:19:08.800 Hubble actually said it was intolerable and horrific.

01:19:11.640 It shows that it implies the Earth's in the center, akin to what everyone thought throughout mankind.

01:19:15.900 But we're going to avoid that at all costs.

01:19:18.620 Well, so if the universe isn't expanding, what explains the redshift?

01:19:21.420 There are many theories, actually.

01:19:23.180 There's a very simple one.

01:19:24.800 When you have a galaxy out there and the light beam leaves the galaxy, the gravity of the galaxy is going to pull on that light beam.

01:19:32.720 And it's going to turn it into a redshift.

01:19:34.360 It's going to slow it down, effectively.

01:19:35.940 There's something called the tired light theory, which is the idea that it attenuates proportionate to distance.

01:19:40.420 So similar to how a laser can't go as far through water as air, it attenuates.

01:19:44.240 It gets absorbed into the medium.

01:19:45.660 So that would do it.

01:19:46.360 There's also electromagnetic...

01:19:47.000 Like light is passing through things that interfere.

01:19:49.520 Yeah, it could be.

01:19:50.280 That was the first theory.

01:19:51.500 Yeah, and I don't even...

01:19:52.560 I actually think that it's electromagnetic retardation.

01:19:55.680 It's actually been shown that...

01:19:56.800 You don't believe that galaxies are millions of light years away to begin with.

01:20:00.320 That doesn't matter at all.

01:20:01.340 It does.

01:20:02.000 No, it literally doesn't matter at all.

01:20:03.700 It does.

01:20:04.220 But why?

01:20:05.040 Because you're talking about a light attenuating over great distance.

01:20:09.180 Like, you don't even believe in those distances.

01:20:11.080 Like, how do you even know...

01:20:11.780 I don't believe in the medium, either.

01:20:14.020 You don't believe in ether?

01:20:15.600 Well, okay.

01:20:16.500 So now we're introducing a medium, and maybe even another medium.

01:20:19.020 You said you didn't believe in it.

01:20:20.240 Let's also introduce some plasma, because it's been proven in a lab, unlike your belief of redshift,

01:20:24.940 that photons, quote-unquote.

01:20:26.800 Which I won't get into that.

01:20:28.380 They redshift through plasma.

01:20:29.860 They redshift through plasma, proportionate to the medium.

01:20:32.960 You don't think that you can get Doppler shift on a spacecraft traveling out from the Earth?

01:20:38.680 Yeah, of course.

01:20:39.980 With frequency, and then you get into sound and light, and what's the difference between the two?

01:20:43.860 You said you couldn't recreate it.

01:20:45.260 Like, we can test redshift.

01:20:46.160 No, no.

01:20:46.640 What I said was your theory has been proven wrong, and the reason it's been proven wrong

01:20:50.900 is because the observations don't actually match the theory.

01:20:53.500 For example, quasars, supernova, and I could go on.

01:20:56.800 When these are observed significantly closer to Earth in your paradigm, there's way more

01:21:01.040 redshift than things that are further away.

01:21:02.540 Also, the redshift isn't...

01:21:04.340 Wait, so you're saying that the quasars are further away than the galaxies?

01:21:08.480 I'm saying that their model doesn't actually add up, that it's just based on...

01:21:13.280 Yeah, I know, but you said it looks like it's far away, but it isn't.

01:21:16.920 Now, that's the theory that goes along with quasars being way far away and galaxies being

01:21:22.980 rather close to us.

01:21:24.860 And Halton Arp, you know.

01:21:26.060 Yeah, Halton Arp, I was about to plug.

01:21:27.440 He's the one that said, no, that's not what's occurring.

01:21:29.900 Exactly.

01:21:30.140 What's occurring is the galaxies are creating the quasars, and they're right next to the

01:21:34.120 galaxies.

01:21:34.700 Right.

01:21:34.960 And he actually showed filament between the two.

01:21:37.220 Yeah.

01:21:37.480 So the whole theory that the quasars are way far away and we see a greater redshift is false.

01:21:42.680 Yeah.

01:21:42.940 But they just had to assume that, right, because it had greater redshift.

01:21:46.180 Yeah.

01:21:46.320 But, like, Halton Arp, this is a perfect example of what happens.

01:21:49.000 People call this science.

01:21:50.640 It's basically a cult, though.

01:21:51.880 Halton Arp was, like, revered almost, like, completely respected astronomer, like, world

01:21:56.280 renowned, like, had things named after him.

01:21:58.440 And he comes out pointing out that redshift doesn't work, and he ends up writing a second

01:22:02.980 follow-up called Seeing Red, which is a play on how he's, like, getting angry because he's

01:22:06.640 being blacklisted.

01:22:07.500 He gets blacklisted.

01:22:08.300 He gets the ability, the right to actually use observatory telescopes revoked from him because

01:22:13.240 he comes out and speaks out against redshift.

01:22:15.060 That is not science.

01:22:16.080 Well, it's because it's against the Big Bang.

01:22:18.080 Yeah.

01:22:18.300 It's a cult.

01:22:19.020 It's a cult.

01:22:19.560 And that's what the Copernican principle is.

01:22:21.040 All the evidence shows the earth is in the center, and no one knows any of this.

01:22:25.800 It's been omitted from the consciousness of people, and then you get into the physical

01:22:29.520 test, it just definitively proves it.

01:22:31.380 I want to say something here that is a dimension of this that deals with my major study, which

01:22:37.440 is theology, and that is this, that if the earth is in the center of the universe, that

01:22:44.020 means somebody had to put it there.

01:22:46.080 Because it's not going to get there by time and chance.

01:22:48.320 Is that, would some argue then that you are incentivized to push theories towards the

01:22:54.600 idea of a geocentric universe?

01:22:56.040 I would never do that.

01:22:58.740 Well, I would say even the-

01:23:00.300 What I'm trying to say is I would go by the evidence.

01:23:02.880 If the evidence supports that theory, we went through Michelson-Morley, we went through

01:23:07.500 Aerie, we went through the cosmic microwave background radiation, we went through Hubble's

01:23:12.520 Big Bang universe, where that came from, that's enough for me to say, I don't have a bias,

01:23:18.200 because the evidence supports what I just said.

01:23:20.660 Now, Tim, can you flip it around, though?

01:23:22.740 Now, flip around what you just asked him.

01:23:25.040 Could it be said that people have a bias against the idea of intelligent design, therefore exclude

01:23:31.200 the possibility of geocentrism?

01:23:33.300 Because that is very clearly what is happening.

01:23:35.520 Stephen Hawking literally says, I can't disprove geocentrism.

01:23:38.260 Am I rejected on grounds of modesty?

01:23:40.320 Hubble calls it intolerable and horrific.

01:23:42.940 Lawrence Krauss says, it's coming back to haunt us.

01:23:45.060 The Copernic principle is coming back to haunt us in his film.

01:23:47.700 There is a bias against intelligent design, similar to how modern academia is overwhelmingly

01:23:52.340 drowning in liberalism.

01:23:55.060 Well, modern academia in terms of science is drowning in atheism, and it actually implements

01:24:01.700 philosophical bias at this point, and they can't have a creator.

01:24:05.180 Well, I would say that even in the mainstream model, you still need a creator, right?

01:24:09.740 But it doesn't matter.

01:24:10.780 The point is, like, you see that every atheist I've ever talked to, I said, so if the Earth

01:24:14.780 were in the center, let's say hypothetically, do you agree that it had to be put there?

01:24:20.900 None of them deny that it drastically increases the chances of intelligent design at the least,

01:24:26.180 right?

01:24:26.400 Because if it's in the center of the whole universe...

01:24:27.980 And in Scientific American, it says 90% of the major scientists are atheists.

01:24:33.580 There you go.

01:24:33.920 So there's your incentive.

01:24:35.140 Tim, I sent you a video, because we were talking about so much scientific stuff.

01:24:38.000 I want to talk about maybe a little less scientific stuff.

01:24:40.400 I sent you a video on X, where you're from Chicago, and you know this, Tim.

01:24:45.000 You can go out there, and this is because I've got to shut down.

01:24:48.200 Climate change.

01:24:49.440 A problem so huge, how could I ever make a difference?

01:24:53.240 I'm Marco Chounovet, climate reporter for the Toronto Star.

01:24:56.460 I meet a lot of smart people doing really inspiring things in this space all the time.

01:25:02.680 Small things that add up to big climate benefits.

01:25:06.560 Small things, big climate.

01:25:08.180 Wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

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01:26:15.280 Bob, even though I like you, Bob, if you go out there, if you pull up that video,

01:26:19.980 no, you pull up that video, if you look across Lake Michigan, Tim,

01:26:23.700 you can see the entire skyline of Chicago.

01:26:26.420 I sent it to you on X.

01:26:28.260 Let me, let me, let me, what elevation, though?

01:26:30.040 How high are those dunes?

01:26:31.940 You're talking about being able to see it?

01:26:33.860 How high is it?

01:26:34.980 I just, I just want to say real quick, you know, there's this expanded flat earth map

01:26:40.760 that makes me wish the flat earth stuff was real.

01:26:43.520 Have you, you've seen this, I imagine, right?

01:26:45.400 Oh, yeah.

01:26:45.760 The world beyond the ice wall.

01:26:47.600 The idea being that the world as we know it is surrounded by this wall of ice,

01:26:51.140 but outside of it are advanced civilizations.

01:26:54.300 Yeah.

01:26:54.560 And then there's another ring.

01:26:55.940 And I'm like, that'd be so cool.

01:26:58.360 That would be.

01:26:58.920 You know, it's like, there's like an advanced, so there's Odin, the walls of Asgard,

01:27:03.180 the scorched wastes, Osiris, Nemo, Lemuria.

01:27:07.860 And it's like, we are trapped as sort of, trapped in this zoo around this ice ring.

01:27:13.680 And if only we could penetrate it, we could get to the great land of Aten and Atlantis.

01:27:19.060 Well, General Admiral, or Admiral Byrd, was it General Byrd or Admiral Byrd?

01:27:23.920 It doesn't matter.

01:27:24.880 He went to Antarctica.

01:27:26.200 He was like the first explorer to really explore it.

01:27:28.760 And he said that there's enough resources in Antarctica to supply the whole entire world.

01:27:33.520 And so there is stuff in Antarctica that doesn't make sense that we don't know about.

01:27:36.600 Major problem for Flat Earth, though, if you look at that map, Tim,

01:27:39.240 you've got South America pointing one way, you've got Australia pointing another way.

01:27:42.700 How are they both able to see the South Celestial Pole looking south?

01:27:45.860 At different times.

01:27:46.640 To be fair, I will say this.

01:27:48.040 Why do you always omit that it's at different times?

01:27:51.200 Flat Earth theorists do not believe this is a real map.

01:27:54.380 No, no, no, no.

01:27:55.340 It's a fantasy.

01:27:56.000 This is the thing, right?

01:27:57.580 There's a model that claims to know exactly what the Earth is.

01:27:59.860 And then there's a group of people who heard the insanity that people think it's flat or whatever.

01:28:04.780 So they just went and challenged it and looked into it.

01:28:07.420 And they've suspended belief of the globe model.

01:28:10.500 You know, this definitive Flat Earth model thing is not popular within people who would say that they are Flat Earthers.

01:28:17.240 We don't know.

01:28:18.100 We can't even privately explore it, right?

01:28:20.120 We just, the empirical measurement shows that the Earth is not curving at the rate that they say.

01:28:23.980 And we don't need Chicago.

01:28:25.820 You can see Kanagoo Mountains from 160 miles away.

01:28:28.740 Which the globe predicts.

01:28:30.300 It literally does.

01:28:31.240 It literally does.

01:28:32.340 It literally does.

01:28:33.220 You can go check it out.

01:28:34.160 So is this the elevation of...

01:28:35.600 Is this an inaccurate depiction or...

01:28:38.660 Yeah, it's an inaccurate.

01:28:39.980 Straw man, straw man.

01:28:40.940 What's wrong with that picture?

01:28:42.220 Well, it's just like a disk in space.

01:28:43.980 I don't know what...

01:28:45.220 Well, just the demographics of the continents and how far they are away and the seas and everything.

01:28:52.400 That's pretty accurate.

01:28:53.340 It's pretty accurate.

01:28:54.260 When you get to the South, it's interesting because we actually dug into the GPS data.

01:28:57.860 And in the South, they make what's called meridian corrections.

01:29:00.300 So they actually are pulling out land, like distance, out of the meridians, in between the meridians, which...

01:29:07.400 Well, you have to.

01:29:08.020 Whenever you flatten a globe, you have to do that.

01:29:11.080 Well, what I'm saying is if it's really a globe, right, then we wouldn't have to do that for the actual raw GPS data, but they do.

01:29:17.600 They also make Sagnac corrections, which is another falsification of relativity.

01:29:20.920 Well, that should tell you that the GPS is based on a globe Earth.

01:29:23.880 Well, of course, but the point is that they have to run it through corrections to get the final longitude output, which shouldn't happen.

01:29:31.380 And this is, again, this is what I want to point out, though.

01:29:33.940 Like, there are physical tests that show that the Earth's not curving at the rate that they say that it is.

01:29:38.760 So the Earth is measured flat.

01:29:40.520 I wonder if we could all agree on this, that flat Earth is actually the default position, because it's always flipped around, right?

01:29:46.900 Well, the horizon's horizontal.

01:29:48.280 When we build things in civil engineering, we actually use plane survey.

01:29:51.800 We do it flat.

01:29:52.800 We connect horizontal.

01:29:54.060 So bridges, runways, railways, canals, when we fly planes, all aviation, we have to treat the Earth like it's flat.

01:29:59.640 Sea level, elevation is a distance above that.

01:30:02.140 Whenever we actually got the latitude system, we took elevation angles to Polaris from a flat horizontal baseline that extended all the way to the zenith.

01:30:09.100 That doesn't prove anything.

01:30:10.120 No, well, well.

01:30:11.860 It just proves that that map works easy.

01:30:13.700 Trilateration only works on the globe, though.

01:30:16.380 You can only get your position from the globe.

01:30:18.820 Like, you have to actually know the orbits of the satellites.

01:30:22.100 But there are satellites.

01:30:23.160 I have a...

01:30:24.240 No, there are satellites.

01:30:25.120 Satellites disprove heliocentrism, and the actual path is nothing more than a projection.

01:30:30.280 So...

01:30:30.440 I have a quick question.

01:30:31.540 It's a very rudimentary, not going to get into deep science or anything.

01:30:34.380 I once flew to New Zealand, and I'm looking at these flat Earth maps, and I'm like,

01:30:39.100 I can't quite explain the path of the flight as it pertains to the flight I actually went on.

01:30:45.120 So I know which direction we left from the airport, and I know I did not fly north or westward.

01:30:51.420 You're over water the whole time?

01:30:52.960 Yeah.

01:30:53.140 And so that would imply that after we flew south beyond the visual, the ability to identify any landmass, the plane then hooked right.

01:31:03.540 So it implies that when I flew from New York to Los Angeles to New Zealand, and I got these couple...

01:31:10.360 Maybe these maps are inaccurate representations of what flight authors believe, but if I left from Los Angeles, and we started flying south, which we did,

01:31:17.280 as soon as we left the visual area so that no one on the plane could identify it, the plane then turns right so it flies straight down and then hooks right

01:31:25.420 instead of just flying straight to New Zealand.

01:31:27.520 I don't believe that happened.

01:31:30.160 Well, planes are always making corrections based on carnal direction, so you're not going to be able to tell on a plane,

01:31:34.920 but I can tell that we didn't fly west or north, and so when we departed, we were flying south.

01:31:41.880 If you left South America and went to New Zealand, you could go there on a globe map straight to New Zealand.

01:31:53.800 If you turn that into a flat earth map, the flat earth map would require you to dip down to make a semicircle and then go up to New Zealand.

01:32:06.200 That's a fact.

01:32:07.300 Well, yeah, there are many paths that make more sense on, like, say, the azimuthal projection than the globe,

01:32:13.040 and they claim all kinds of things.

01:32:14.380 They didn't stop for gas or whatever.

01:32:16.840 And I'll make it very clear, actually, I don't claim definitive projections.

01:32:20.100 If we've been misled to about the nature of the earth, which I think the evidence is overwhelming that we have been,

01:32:25.380 it would be very naive to think that we have a perfect depiction of the very thing that we were misled about.

01:32:30.680 Of course we don't.

01:32:31.500 Now, in the north, 90% of the world population here, we have a better grasp of it, but it's just a projection thing.

01:32:36.620 And bringing up the satellite thing, that's kind of like a misnomer that, like, satellites can't exist on a flat earth.

01:32:42.240 Actually, satellites, for one, disprove heliocentrism because they actually have to account for inertial forces.

01:32:47.480 They account for centrifugal forces, which are considered fictitious and pseudoforces in your paradigm.

01:32:51.320 They can't exist.

01:32:52.320 So if there are actually satellites being put up there, they're accounting for the angular momentum of a rotating universe around a stationary earth

01:32:57.380 with inertial forces, centrifugal, coriolis, and Euler forces.

01:33:00.220 Those can't exist in your paradigm.

01:33:01.700 They don't exist in Newtonian mechanics.

01:33:03.240 Those are forces external to Newtonian mechanics.

01:33:05.440 And they don't exist in Einstein.

01:33:06.600 So just point that out.

01:33:08.120 Satellites are actually, I love them.

01:33:09.980 This idea that I'm scared of satellites.

01:33:11.720 Well, I see star links.

01:33:12.740 I watch many launches.

01:33:13.780 I don't have a problem with it.

01:33:14.380 I have a star link.

01:33:15.440 You know, I haven't set up the internet, but I have one.

01:33:16.960 How do they stay up there?

01:33:18.260 Well, that's the equations.

01:33:19.640 The physics and equations say they're using the spinning universe.

01:33:22.840 That's what is factually in the equations.

01:33:25.440 It says that it uses centrifugal force.

01:33:27.100 It's like if you had a ball tied to a rope and you spin it, right?

01:33:29.980 It's going to keep going in a circle because you're pulling it, but the ball has a tendency

01:33:33.160 to move out away from you.

01:33:34.840 It's going to keep going around because you're pulling it.

01:33:36.760 That's called centrifugal force.

01:33:38.120 They have to account for this and the real coriolis force, which is like an inward centripetal

01:33:43.560 force, so a radially inward force for the satellite equations.

01:33:46.940 According to the heliocentric model, there is no such thing.

01:33:49.380 How would they stay above a flare?

01:33:51.720 They're on balloons.

01:33:52.460 Type in satellites on balloons.

01:33:54.060 I'm telling you.

01:33:54.960 They're not all on balloons.

01:33:56.480 They're not all on balloons, but they're satellites that were on balloons.

01:33:59.240 Yeah, it was called Project Loon.

01:34:00.540 I'm just saying.

01:34:01.580 Google launched a bunch of balloons carrying internet nodes.

01:34:05.280 Exactly.

01:34:05.720 So they could float over.

01:34:06.660 That's not a conspiracy.

01:34:07.680 The military also has them.

01:34:08.900 They use balloons, and NASA is the user.

01:34:11.920 So Elon's actually just launching balloons, but putting them on the show.

01:34:14.560 You can type in NASA.

01:34:15.160 No, no, I don't think.

01:34:16.000 NASA, they do balloon launches.

01:34:17.520 I know.

01:34:18.140 Yeah, they can do that if it's low Earth orbit.

01:34:19.860 But if you have a weather satellite that's out there at 22,200 miles, you're not going

01:34:24.420 to get a balloon out there.

01:34:25.300 See, I totally disavow those distance claims.

01:34:29.040 Because the way that they do it, they take the signal, and they—yeah, that's cool.

01:34:32.220 So what equation do you use to determine the distance?

01:34:35.240 Parallax.

01:34:35.600 You just use simple trigonometry.

01:34:37.140 It's basic trigonometry.

01:34:38.100 Really?

01:34:38.600 So what's the length of your baseline?

01:34:41.440 Well, let's see.

01:34:42.100 For a space station, it was 760 meters.

01:34:45.020 760-meter baseline to determine the distance to the space station.

01:34:49.620 Yep.

01:34:50.200 Okay.

01:34:50.560 And you're saying it's impossible for the ISS to move over a plane.

01:34:55.560 What does that have to do with me measuring the distance?

01:34:57.840 You can assume it's a plane.

01:34:58.760 You can assume it's a globe.

01:34:59.680 Well, earlier you said trilateration was impossible.

01:35:02.320 Trilateration's about you finding your location.

01:35:04.280 All right.

01:35:04.440 I'm talking about measuring the altitude at the space station.

01:35:05.800 Which you need your location.

01:35:07.200 So the—you need your location.

01:35:10.180 I just know the baseline.

01:35:12.040 Right.

01:35:12.320 Okay.

01:35:12.840 So you need your location.

01:35:13.980 That's the prerequisite.

01:35:15.560 So the—and the point I was making is I don't believe when he claims something's

01:35:20.100 22,000 miles away.

01:35:21.060 I don't believe that.

01:35:22.320 But he can.

01:35:23.160 I don't.

01:35:23.740 The moon is 240,000 miles away.

01:35:26.220 Yeah.

01:35:26.420 See, I definitely don't believe that.

01:35:28.060 And—but this is the thing.

01:35:30.240 The way that they get the distance is they actually use, of course, the equation for speed.

01:35:33.640 And they assume the medium, the propagation rate of light, and they get how long it takes

01:35:38.020 the duration of signal to get there, right?

01:35:39.800 And then they plug it into the assumption of the speed of light relative to the vacuum,

01:35:43.280 and then they're going to supposedly get their distance.

01:35:44.920 I disavow those assumptions.

01:35:46.300 I don't think that's true.

01:35:47.060 Well, you guys are all wrong.

01:35:48.320 The Earth is clearly hollow and flat.

01:35:50.400 It's a donut.

01:35:52.100 No advice is stupid.

01:35:53.380 You know that.

01:35:54.540 We're in a donut magnetic field.

01:35:56.380 I want to answer the firmament thing, though, the idea of putting them inside the firmament.

01:35:59.620 All the early church fathers, even, but like many people, all of biblical history, they

01:36:05.040 said that there were layers to a container.

01:36:07.660 A physical container had layers, and the sun, moon, and stars are inside those layers of

01:36:13.420 the firmament.

01:36:14.460 And in fact, even that there are specific two layers, meaning like the sun and moon and

01:36:17.780 the stars are in a separate layer.

01:36:19.300 So that would be how that's explained.

01:36:21.920 I was not explaining it.

01:36:23.280 Why not?

01:36:23.700 Because the Hebrew word is bay rakia, which does not mean in, or inside, like you're trying

01:36:30.920 to say.

01:36:31.840 You're trying to say that somehow you have the dome, and then there's the inside underneath

01:36:36.740 the dome.

01:36:37.720 There are layers inside of it.

01:36:39.160 Yeah.

01:36:39.660 Okay.

01:36:40.000 That's what you're trying to say.

01:36:41.000 But that's not what the Hebrew says.

01:36:42.500 The Hebrew says it's in the firmament.

01:36:45.780 Yeah.

01:36:46.180 Okay?

01:36:46.880 So if the definition of firmament is solid, how are the celestial bodies going to be in

01:36:52.260 the firmament, not underneath, because there's a lot of ways in Hebrew to say underneath

01:36:56.340 the firmament.

01:36:57.220 Well, they're within the solid firmament.

01:36:59.380 I think the...

01:37:00.200 Wait a second.

01:37:00.700 And there's a lot of ways to say that the celestial bodies are over the firmament.

01:37:04.860 Well, they're not above or below because there's layers.

01:37:06.720 They're within it.

01:37:07.700 The easiest way to understand...

01:37:08.780 Yeah, but you can't have that if the firmament's solid.

01:37:11.280 That's what I'm trying to say.

01:37:12.280 But ice and water can go from solid, so maybe it could change.

01:37:15.540 No, no.

01:37:16.140 Solid isn't solid.

01:37:16.900 It's not water.

01:37:17.740 I think the easiest way to understand the firmament is for anybody who's ever played World

01:37:20.660 of Warcraft, and you try and go too far south, and your character just keeps walking into

01:37:24.700 what's...

01:37:25.080 There you go.

01:37:26.440 The best argument is that the physical antecedent for gas pressure is a container, right?

01:37:31.780 Because the gas pressure would fill the available space, second law of thermodynamics, entropy

01:37:35.280 increases.

01:37:35.920 So if we actually had an atmosphere next to vacuum, it would fill the available space.

01:37:39.120 It's where people just blindly throw out the word gravity, even though they don't even

01:37:41.940 have a theory that works, and it wouldn't explain it anyway.

01:37:44.460 But if gravity worked, you would have to admit that an atmosphere would be possible,

01:37:47.160 right?

01:37:47.340 No, not next to a vacuum.

01:37:48.960 It violates the second law of thermodynamics.

01:37:50.220 No, it doesn't.

01:37:50.820 It doesn't.

01:37:51.340 Because how do we have a pressure-ass system?

01:37:53.020 You're right.

01:37:54.040 Because the TOR measurement of vacuum in space, they don't know whether it's 10 to the minus

01:38:01.720 6 or 10 to the minus 17.

01:38:03.540 They have no way to measure it.

01:38:05.400 So if it's 10 to the minus 6, we're safe.

01:38:07.600 The atmosphere is not going to be sucked out.

01:38:09.460 If it was 10 to the minus 17, yeah, the atmosphere would be sucked out, but that means both

01:38:14.440 your theory and my theory would be wrong.

01:38:16.560 Well, wait, wait, hold on.

01:38:17.200 I think there's something contained.

01:38:18.180 Why can't they measure it?

01:38:19.620 Couldn't you-

01:38:20.300 They can't get an exact figure.

01:38:22.020 They know it's between-

01:38:23.240 If we had consistent access to Mars, could you?

01:38:26.820 If we what?

01:38:27.460 Had consistent access to Mars.

01:38:29.500 Mars, I don't think, would have anything to do with it, in my opinion.

01:38:32.480 Well, two different gravitational bodies giving us a reference-

01:38:36.000 You're talking about outer space.

01:38:37.140 Right.

01:38:37.540 What's the vacuum in outer space?

01:38:38.920 So if Mars can't maintain an atmosphere the size of Earth, what-

01:38:43.680 Yes, he's saying if you were able to kind of sit on Mars and make more calibrated measurements.

01:38:47.580 What's the rate at which the atmosphere dissipates from Mars if it can't maintain, or the moon

01:38:51.280 or something?

01:38:51.880 Well, it's a lot more because it has less gravity.

01:38:53.660 Right, so then you could measure the baseline by which-

01:38:58.420 What is the amount of mass required to sustain an atmosphere?

01:39:03.480 You could then determine if it's not going to hold it because the vacuum is pulling on it.

01:39:07.660 You could, maybe, but I'm just telling you what the books say.

01:39:11.020 And the gas pressure would-

01:39:12.420 The gas pressure need-

01:39:14.060 The way that we actually even do the equation for gas pressure is a physical barrier.

01:39:18.360 Because pressure is the energy or force exerted on the walls of a container.

01:39:21.180 So you need, to even have pressure, to even invoke pressure, it presses on the walls of

01:39:26.180 a container.

01:39:26.720 So, real quick, sorry, the presumption of why the Earth has an atmosphere is because

01:39:33.220 the gravity is holding this matter to the Earth.

01:39:35.940 Yes.

01:39:36.400 And for Mars, there is not enough, the gravity is weaker, so the atmosphere is much thinner

01:39:41.220 because it can't hold as much.

01:39:42.500 That's why Saturn and Jupiter have a much thicker atmosphere because more gravity.

01:39:46.980 But gas disperses in all directions on the surface where gravity would be the strongest.

01:39:51.440 Right?

01:39:51.580 Gas goes in all directions.

01:39:53.380 You can't just have a vacuum next to a gas pressure on the surface.

01:39:56.100 Gravity is the strongest here.

01:39:57.840 So that's, the modern model just isn't true.

01:40:01.120 It defies physics.

01:40:02.660 And I'm waiting for an answer to that.

01:40:03.780 If gravity is the strongest at the surface-

01:40:05.340 The atmosphere is a gradient.

01:40:06.460 And I've got a simulation that I programmed myself that's on my channel that shows a simulated

01:40:10.900 planet with gravity holding onto an atmosphere.

01:40:13.060 And yeah, it's a gradient.

01:40:13.800 As you go further out, it goes closer.

01:40:15.000 Yeah, air gets thinner.

01:40:15.580 It's a simulation.

01:40:16.780 Air gets thinner.

01:40:17.300 The higher you go, it's when people die in a amount of hours.

01:40:18.740 Yeah, there's definitely a gradient.

01:40:19.880 We have hydrogen that escapes out into outer space because it's just too light for the

01:40:24.280 gravity to hold on.

01:40:24.680 So gravity picks and chooses between some of the gas.

01:40:27.460 No, it's because the hydrogen is lighter than helium.

01:40:29.940 Why does all the hydrogen not leave?

01:40:32.440 Because we have enough gravity that it has to seep out slowly.

01:40:35.200 That's the pick and choose.

01:40:36.500 No, it's not picking and choosing.

01:40:37.820 That's the physics of it.

01:40:38.660 My question really is, we all agree gas disperses in all directions, right?

01:40:42.800 For what?

01:40:43.040 Okay, so gravity's not actually pulling the air down as you're claiming to where it keeps

01:40:48.800 it next to a vacuum.

01:40:49.760 It disperses in all directions where gravity is the strongest.

01:40:52.180 Well, what is your explanation for gravity?

01:40:54.640 Well, I mean, I would say that everything for density and buoyancy is a major part of it

01:40:59.740 because it's all just pressure mediating relative to its medium, right?

01:41:04.380 So ping pong, golf ball, but I would say, and this is what I say, I don't speak for anyone

01:41:08.160 else, that everything's electric.

01:41:10.600 And so everything that exists is electrostatic, literally everything that exists.

01:41:14.840 There's not one exception.

01:41:16.400 Everything's electric.

01:41:17.340 And that's 10 to the 36th power stronger than gravity's even claimed to be on the smallest

01:41:22.660 scale.

01:41:23.180 How does this explain a balloon full of helium rising in the air?

01:41:26.700 Well, that would be, that's probably more merely buoyancy.

01:41:29.280 But buoyancy, like for instance, when you look at these videos of outer space,

01:41:34.380 they put, you know, balloon in the cover with water, the water just, it sits around it.

01:41:38.180 There's no movement in either direction.

01:41:40.940 Buoyancy requires gravity.

01:41:42.640 In quote unquote space.

01:41:43.660 Now, okay.

01:41:44.140 Very good.

01:41:44.660 That's, that's the claim, but I'm trying to explain really what it requires is a little

01:41:47.720 g, which is downward acceleration.

01:41:49.440 That's just the effect.

01:41:50.500 We measure how fast things fall.

01:41:52.500 Big g or the cause of that is a totally separate thing.

01:41:55.280 I don't deny little g and I would actually say I know a better cause for it.

01:41:59.160 There's a downward electric current on the earth.

01:42:01.260 It's, it's, uh, based on the electric field has equipotential increase.

01:42:05.100 So every, every meter you go up, the electric field on earth increases a hundred volts in

01:42:08.840 potential.

01:42:09.240 And that creates a downward electric current.

01:42:11.420 You can actually read Feynman lectures.

01:42:12.840 I think it's 9.1.

01:42:13.980 He explains this.

01:42:14.960 There's horizontal equipotential lines and it creates a downward current.

01:42:18.480 It's very weak, but it's very, why do that gravity gets weaker at a distance?

01:42:22.760 Well, that's what your model would claim as well.

01:42:25.880 Now I would actually have to get out of it.

01:42:27.960 Yeah, of course, the further away you get from the center of mass, but like it would

01:42:31.240 be negligible.

01:42:32.000 And I would actually have to know what the electric field is doing over like, you know,

01:42:35.240 50 miles.

01:42:36.000 Like the most I can independently verify is 30, 35 miles.

01:42:39.880 The mainstream model claims that like around 50, 60 kilometers, the electric field changes.

01:42:43.780 Well, that's convenient, right?

01:42:44.860 Cause that's where we can no longer.

01:42:46.180 Yeah.

01:42:46.320 But your electric field is starting out there in space and it's coming down, correct?

01:42:50.580 Well, I do believe, I believe that there's a major, that's a major variable is that there's

01:42:54.740 tons of electromagnetic radiation coming from the sky, basically coming down to the earth.

01:42:58.740 That implies to me that it's stronger up there than it is down here.

01:43:03.480 Well, everything goes to seek equilibrium, right?

01:43:06.100 And that's why there's a downward current.

01:43:07.360 You can actually run a generator.

01:43:08.780 Yeah, but we, I think we've shown, help me, that gravity gets weaker, the higher you go.

01:43:16.080 Well, and if it's just electrics, then why do neutrons not float?

01:43:20.000 Okay.

01:43:20.340 You're saying neutrons are, are, don't have any electric properties?

01:43:24.420 Correct.

01:43:24.920 They're neutral.

01:43:25.640 That's in, they have a net neutral charge.

01:43:29.320 So they're actually in your paradigm, I don't even believe in this, but they're comprised of

01:43:33.080 quarks.

01:43:34.080 Well, I don't believe in subatomic pseudoscientific particles.

01:43:36.800 It doesn't matter.

01:43:37.200 It, you're laughing, but I'm about to show you that you don't, you don't understand it,

01:43:41.380 that obviously it's made of quarks and they're made of elementary charges or fractional elementary

01:43:45.960 charges.

01:43:46.420 So they are fundamentally electric.

01:43:48.740 Neutrons are electrically neutral though.

01:43:50.580 So why do they not float?

01:43:51.820 Are they, are they inherently electric?

01:43:54.840 They are electrically neutral.

01:43:57.620 See, I just now directly rebutted this.

01:43:59.700 That's the net charge, but they are inherently electric.

01:44:02.360 So if they're net charge neutral, then why would they not float in your model?

01:44:05.840 If, if, if electric, if electricity, if electrostatics is just, if that's the explanation for gravity,

01:44:11.220 why are neutrons affected by gravity?

01:44:13.980 Okay.

01:44:14.920 Because in this, this is your model of neutrons and that they're material.

01:44:18.700 All material is electrostatic.

01:44:20.780 And you tried to bring up neutrons and that's what all anyone can ever bring up because they

01:44:23.780 think it has no charge.

01:44:24.900 You're wrong.

01:44:25.480 It actually does have charge.

01:44:26.920 Everything does.

01:44:27.700 Everything's electric.

01:44:28.540 That's the true unified theory.

01:44:30.280 They can't invoke this though, because it's going to start to have ether and geocentrism pop

01:44:34.100 back in, but the point is all molecular and intermolecular attractive forces are electrostatic

01:44:40.020 in nature.

01:44:40.520 What that means is all molecules in the world that are held together in any piece of matter,

01:44:44.180 you name it, rubber, sand, glass, wood, name anything in the world, it's held together

01:44:48.660 by electrostatics.

01:44:49.760 Yeah, but how does that prove gravity though?

01:44:51.500 Well, it's, see, I don't have to prove a replacement for gravity.

01:44:56.400 I'm stating a fact, which is.

01:44:58.000 Yeah, well, we agree with that.

01:44:59.360 It's all electrostatic.

01:45:00.380 And think about this, well, what is, what is weight?

01:45:04.300 It's weight equals mg.

01:45:06.440 Because you're actually asking me to explain what causes weight.

01:45:09.160 When you ask me about gravity, you have a different idea that everyone's antipodal and

01:45:13.080 omnidirectional and there needs to be a force pulling me on a sphere that's flying around

01:45:16.680 the sun.

01:45:17.360 I don't have, I don't believe, believe in that.

01:45:19.160 I'm just going to state the facts that there's weight.

01:45:21.160 And what is it?

01:45:21.700 It's mass times quote unquote gravity, right?

01:45:24.060 Little g.

01:45:24.560 That's how fast things fall.

01:45:26.120 So what is mass?

01:45:27.760 It's volume times density.

01:45:29.240 Density, that's what it is.

01:45:31.260 So then what is density?

01:45:32.960 Density is the compactness of matter, right?

01:45:35.780 So what's the cause of density?

01:45:37.500 Whatever's holding the matter together with a certain compactness, we know that is electrostatics.

01:45:42.080 The actual primary cause of density is-

01:45:43.780 How does that prove gravity though?

01:45:45.180 No, it's explaining what weight is.

01:45:47.840 That's all you're asking when you ask, what is gravity?

01:45:51.200 We were talking about weight.

01:45:53.140 Now I would actually say-

01:45:54.240 Yeah, but see, you've got two balls, A and B.

01:45:57.500 Okay?

01:45:58.260 Both are held together electrostatically.

01:46:00.200 We agree with that.

01:46:01.000 Yeah.

01:46:01.280 But why is A attracting B and why is B attracting A?

01:46:04.880 Oh, well, that's a claim.

01:46:06.520 And you maybe have to invoke Cavendish.

01:46:08.360 Cavendish is the only thing even claimed to supposedly show that.

01:46:10.900 Well, it hasn't been disproven.

01:46:12.700 So that's why we do it.

01:46:14.100 So Cavendish is, you can't actually eliminate the variable of electrostatics in that test.

01:46:20.440 I'm not.

01:46:20.760 I'm not.

01:46:21.160 I'm just saying the balls attracting each other.

01:46:23.260 Yeah.

01:46:23.680 Yeah.

01:46:23.980 Because of electric variables.

01:46:26.280 So, and this is even well known in mainstream.

01:46:27.760 Well, you have to prove that.

01:46:29.040 No, in mainstream, I'm going to explain it.

01:46:30.020 In mainstream, it's actually known.

01:46:31.480 Even when you put Faraday material in between the balls in a Faraday cage and ground the entire

01:46:35.820 system, it still actually has electromagnetic variables that are affecting the balls.

01:46:40.640 This is well known.

01:46:41.280 And then Cavendish actually, right, didn't even account for electrostatics at all.

01:46:45.360 Supposedly ran across his yard with a telescope and saw it kind of jiggle a little bit and

01:46:49.120 then knew the density and weight of Earth by assuming and reifying the sphere.

01:46:52.680 All this comes to is people wanted the Earth to be a sphere.

01:46:55.440 They presupposed it.

01:46:56.360 They built a model around it based on what they saw.

01:46:58.760 Then they wanted the Earth to be a sphere that's moving around the sun and they built

01:47:01.420 a model around it.

01:47:02.460 If it's true that the satellite can be at a 22,000 miles, I know you don't believe that,

01:47:08.260 but could it take a picture of the Earth and show that it was visible?

01:47:11.300 Absolutely.

01:47:11.820 Yeah, absolutely.

01:47:12.980 Okay.

01:47:13.300 The 500-mile satellites that we, most of them are about 500 miles above the Earth, they're

01:47:19.580 going around the Earth at a pretty rapid clip.

01:47:22.200 Yeah.

01:47:22.400 And they're taking pictures of the Earth.

01:47:24.660 Now, what I've heard the flat earthers say is that, first of all, there's no satellites,

01:47:29.440 so there's no pictures taken.

01:47:30.520 And then, when NASA comes back with the pictures.

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01:48:31.700 Thrive knows that quitting smoking is f***ing hard.

01:48:34.500 You get advice like, just stop.

01:48:36.960 Go for a run.

01:48:38.000 Go for 10 runs.

01:48:39.060 Run a marathon.

01:48:40.420 Instead, start small with Thrive, which can lead to something big.

01:48:44.280 Start stopping with Thrive.

01:48:45.620 The pictures are a little distorted because the satellite, being only 500 miles up, can't

01:48:53.400 take a picture of the whole Earth, obviously.

01:48:55.340 It can only take a picture of a small section.

01:48:58.100 And then it moves on, and it takes a picture of another section.

01:49:01.000 And it moves on, takes a picture of another section.

01:49:03.620 Okay?

01:49:04.100 And then it brings all these sections back, and you have to put them all together.

01:49:08.760 And that's hard to do.

01:49:09.900 Why?

01:49:10.300 Because you're making pictures of a circle.

01:49:13.040 And if you have circles that you're taking pictures of, you're not going to have square

01:49:17.320 pictures.

01:49:17.800 You're going to have peels, like an orange peel.

01:49:21.700 And then you've got to put all these peels together.

01:49:23.400 And when you do, the flat earthers say, oh, well, you're manipulating the pictures because

01:49:29.500 Well, you are manipulating them.

01:49:30.740 And they admit that's what they did with the blue marble.

01:49:32.140 I mean, they do admit that you have to do that because you're dealing with a circle.

01:49:35.860 It's not proof of anything, right?

01:49:37.020 Like, let's just make sure the audience knows this.

01:49:39.200 The first wallpaper on the first generation of iPhone was the blue marble, right?

01:49:44.480 Does anyone remember the first?

01:49:45.280 Oh, yeah.

01:49:45.880 So everyone saw this picture, right?

01:49:47.740 And I would just assume that's a picture of the Earth from space.

01:49:49.980 It was not, though.

01:49:51.340 It was literally fake.

01:49:53.460 And Robert Simmons, who worked for NASA, who actually did it.

01:49:56.500 You can pull this up.

01:49:57.060 You can pull it up.

01:49:57.700 He'll straight up tell you.

01:49:58.660 This is Robert Simmons, blue marble, nasa.gov.

01:50:01.040 And he says, what we did was we take pictures, flat map pictures.

01:50:04.760 We take a bunch of pictures.

01:50:05.700 We put it in a flat map.

01:50:07.280 We compile it.

01:50:08.000 Then we have to transform that.

01:50:09.340 We actually have to turn that into a sphere.

01:50:10.980 We wrap that around a sphere.

01:50:12.640 Then we have to bring in cloud layers and an artist.

01:50:14.880 And my job was to actually touch it up to make it look like what the observer would expect

01:50:19.260 it to look like by painting it, by literally painting it.

01:50:23.520 So the picture that everyone assumed was a real picture of Earth from space all over

01:50:27.460 the default wallpaper is admittedly not real at all.

01:50:30.400 No.

01:50:31.360 That's just a guy who made a Photoshop art for iPhone.

01:50:34.380 Yeah.

01:50:34.740 No, for NASA.

01:50:35.680 That's for NASA.

01:50:36.820 Pictures don't come in curves.

01:50:38.700 They come flat when you take a picture.

01:50:41.660 So you have all these flat pictures, and now you have to assimilate them all to make the

01:50:46.860 true picture.

01:50:48.120 And you're going to have to add stuff, take stuff away, because you have to end up with

01:50:53.160 a picture.

01:50:53.480 Is it too much to ask for, though, a picture of the Earth that's not edited?

01:50:57.580 Which is available every day.

01:50:58.920 How are we going to convince you?

01:51:00.640 No, I believe there's satellites.

01:51:01.720 I didn't say there's no satellites.

01:51:02.760 I'm just saying the pictures that they give us.

01:51:04.160 Do you believe there's a satellite out there at 22,200?

01:51:07.160 I don't know.

01:51:08.720 Do you or not?

01:51:09.420 I don't know.

01:51:10.040 I don't know.

01:51:10.640 Okay, so you don't, basically.

01:51:12.700 And if it was, why can't we just make a video of it?

01:51:16.340 It's 2024.

01:51:17.440 We do.

01:51:17.680 It's on TV every night.

01:51:18.780 It's called a weather satellite.

01:51:20.440 A video.

01:51:21.300 Like, we don't have actual video.

01:51:22.980 Like, if you could have shut this down, you went to the moon, supposedly, just put a

01:51:26.240 freaking camera on the moon, even with 1,000 people.

01:51:28.160 That's a different topic.

01:51:29.100 No, either way.

01:51:29.720 We're not talking about going to the moon.

01:51:30.680 We're talking about...

01:51:30.940 Moon, satellites, whatever.

01:51:31.720 I think the issue is they're so concerned with sending $250 billion to Ukraine, no one's going

01:51:36.220 to put any money into moon travel, but Elon Musk is working on it, so...

01:51:39.760 I mean, Discover takes pictures of the Earth every day.

01:51:40.880 Well, first it was that we're going to the moon.

01:51:42.600 Now we've skipped it over.

01:51:43.840 They said they were going to go back to the moon for the last 20 years.

01:51:46.040 Or Artemis.

01:51:46.880 Someone actually owes me, like, $25,000 because they didn't go by 2025.

01:51:50.200 They were so confident.

01:51:51.320 This happens regularly, and then everyone forgets.

01:51:53.320 It gets memory-held.

01:51:54.780 Who owes you that money?

01:51:56.760 I'm going to give him a break.

01:51:58.040 He came and asked me.

01:52:00.660 He, like, kind of groveled a bit.

01:52:02.220 I'm like, you're a good brother.

01:52:03.200 That's all good.

01:52:04.080 Well, because they want to build a space station.

01:52:06.220 They want to build a space station on the moon so that they can deposit materials, create rockets, and then use the moon as a launching point for Mars.

01:52:12.140 I don't know if Elon's actually planning on doing that, but he's saying...

01:52:14.860 Well, he tweeted something how they even need a rocket that can refill in its path to the moon.

01:52:21.220 I mean, that's the mode of operations for Starship, right, is the whole idea is you're launching a very large rocket, and when it gets into orbit, it's pretty much empty.

01:52:29.580 It pretty much doesn't have much fuel, maybe just enough for landing, which is what they've been testing, but it doesn't have enough fuel to go all the way to the moon, right?

01:52:35.600 So the idea is then you launch another one, and it brings up a little extra fuel, and you do this over and over again and fill it up in orbit, and now you have a vehicle that can go to...

01:52:42.820 Well, we were able to do it in 1969.

01:52:44.200 Yeah, why, if that's the case, how come they had enough fuel in 1969?

01:52:48.460 Because in 1969, they weren't reusing the rocket.

01:52:50.500 That was a one-time-use-only kind of deal.

01:52:52.320 This is reuse the whole thing.

01:52:54.800 Oh, right.

01:52:55.560 It has enough...

01:52:56.100 It has enough fuel.

01:52:57.000 It's got enough capability to come back.

01:52:59.260 So Starship, you know, it's stainless steel.

01:53:01.240 That's heavy stuff.

01:53:02.000 That's not great when you're trying to build a rocket.

01:53:04.260 You're saying when it comes back from the moon, it needs to be able to land itself.

01:53:06.620 Land itself.

01:53:07.000 It needs a lot more fuel.

01:53:07.620 They won't get caught by the tower, right, like they've been doing.

01:53:10.000 That was crazy.

01:53:11.180 Elon Musk caught a 30-story building.

01:53:13.900 Yeah, but that was more of like a magic trick.

01:53:15.580 I mean, I don't know.

01:53:16.020 I think, you know, we got questions about politicians, but ain't nobody questioned the

01:53:20.340 integrity of that Eratosthenes, you know, I don't...

01:53:23.060 That is true.

01:53:23.600 What was that all about?

01:53:24.300 Sticks and Shadows.

01:53:24.840 Yeah.

01:53:25.120 That works with the localized side.

01:53:26.180 I heard he was cheating on his wife.

01:53:27.540 Who knows what's going on?

01:53:28.540 Primary documentation doesn't even exist of that ever happening either.

01:53:31.940 The thing is that you can move the light source to the other side, and once you move

01:53:38.100 the light source, you show that the earth is fixed, and the light source can change its position.

01:53:44.060 So Eratosthenes really didn't prove anything.

01:53:46.220 Yeah.

01:53:46.520 And what he did.

01:53:47.140 You can do it over.

01:53:47.760 I could actually do that experiment on this table and then show you the math of what size

01:53:52.000 sphere this table is, you know, because you have different angles.

01:53:55.160 You assume spherical trigonometry.

01:53:56.720 Can I ask you a question about the stars, constellations?

01:54:00.160 Yeah.

01:54:00.260 Okay.

01:54:00.540 So in the globe earth, you have the northern constellations headed by Polaris on the top,

01:54:06.440 the north star, which is the tail of the Big Dipper, okay?

01:54:10.580 And you got some other constellations, the bear and Cassiopeia and all that around.

01:54:14.740 And then on the southern, you have near the south pole, you have octanes, mesmos, several

01:54:23.160 other constellations there.

01:54:24.500 Yeah, the southern cross.

01:54:24.960 Okay?

01:54:25.460 Yep.

01:54:25.580 So, Mike, if the earth is flat now, how are you going to incorporate those southern stars

01:54:33.360 that in the globe model take up a whole hemisphere, okay?

01:54:37.520 How are you going to put them into the flat earth model that only has a dome, does not have

01:54:44.700 a sphere, it only has a hemisphere?

01:54:47.220 How are you going to fit those stars in there?

01:54:49.080 Yeah, so...

01:54:49.780 From the south.

01:54:50.380 Well, I mean, they can actually be embedded into the firmament itself, but what I actually

01:54:54.760 think is...

01:54:55.140 Wait, wait, wait, what?

01:54:56.740 Yeah, yeah.

01:54:57.100 Did you say?

01:54:57.580 They can actually be inside of layers within the firmament itself.

01:55:01.500 Well, we don't see them.

01:55:02.940 What do you mean?

01:55:04.100 Oh, you mean from the north?

01:55:04.700 I have to travel...

01:55:05.760 Oh, so you're asking why I can't see them.

01:55:07.460 I have to travel down here to the bottom to see those stars.

01:55:09.380 Yeah, I mean, this is a pretty...

01:55:09.940 How can they be embedded in the northern hemisphere?

01:55:12.100 Pretty simple...

01:55:12.660 No, well, I just meant the firmament itself, but I misunderstood your question.

01:55:15.500 It's a pretty simple answer, right?

01:55:17.260 It's like the same reason that streetlights look like they're going down.

01:55:20.520 So, in the globe paradigm...

01:55:21.900 What do you mean?

01:55:22.580 So, if I look at a long street, the streetlights are all 10 feet tall, but they're going to

01:55:27.220 look like they're going down.

01:55:28.560 So, you're going to give me the perspective argument.

01:55:30.580 Well, that's what it is.

01:55:32.680 How?

01:55:33.200 How does that explain it?

01:55:33.500 Because the way we actually made these measurements is we actually looked at Polaris, and we took

01:55:37.980 an elevation angle to Polaris, and we had a horizontal baseline that goes all the way

01:55:42.560 to the zenith underneath Polaris.

01:55:45.060 Now, on a globe, obviously, you can't extend a horizontal baseline hundreds of miles.

01:55:48.700 And then what we did was we went back a little further.

01:55:50.540 The angle changes.

01:55:51.980 Again, flat Earth measurement.

01:55:53.600 The Earth measures flat.

01:55:54.700 To even make the globe model, you had to make flat Earth measurements to get the latitude

01:55:58.540 system.

01:55:58.940 So, basically, the perspective causes the star to drop down, just like the streetlights,

01:56:03.580 and you keep on making those angle measurements.

01:56:05.420 What they then did was take those angle measurements that change based on your distance, and they

01:56:10.100 put it into a spherical coordinate system.

01:56:12.700 So...

01:56:13.140 Oh, wait a minute.

01:56:13.780 If the stars come out at night, all the stars come out at night at once.

01:56:22.460 Okay?

01:56:22.940 They're not spread out over time.

01:56:25.140 Yeah.

01:56:25.580 And we only see the northern constellations.

01:56:29.520 Yeah.

01:56:29.840 We don't see the southern constellations.

01:56:32.060 Until you go further south.

01:56:33.680 Right?

01:56:33.900 I mean, you don't even have to go all the way to the...

01:56:35.220 No.

01:56:35.460 If I went on a flat Earth to the edge, I still wouldn't see them.

01:56:39.780 What?

01:56:40.760 You can go to any point on the Earth in that circular disk, and you still won't see the

01:56:46.680 southern celestial stars.

01:56:48.240 Well, the stars are spinning, and as they come over top of you in your south, which they're

01:56:52.940 actually more stretched out than in the north, and you can actually see them from a greater

01:56:55.920 distance away than in the north, which is a major problem.

01:56:59.680 I mean, you can see more constellations from a greater distance in the north and the south,

01:57:03.180 which should be symmetrical.

01:57:04.620 There should be someplace on your disk where I can see octanes.

01:57:08.880 Yeah.

01:57:09.200 Yeah.

01:57:09.360 It's just the stars are above us.

01:57:10.680 Where?

01:57:10.780 Where am I going to see it?

01:57:11.640 Out south.

01:57:12.580 It's just a way...

01:57:13.000 Out south?

01:57:13.700 It's away from north.

01:57:14.540 Okay.

01:57:14.900 Well...

01:57:15.300 What's the difference?

01:57:16.420 Tim, because we're running out of time.

01:57:17.840 Tim, I want to get your guys' perspective or your reasoning.

01:57:20.880 June 8th, the day that the Earth is 99% lit by the sun.

01:57:25.260 How is that possible?

01:57:26.320 Because you are interpreting that wrong.

01:57:28.000 We went over this.

01:57:28.720 No, I'm not interpreting it wrong.

01:57:30.520 Austin, please tell Tim.

01:57:31.520 Well, that's population.

01:57:32.760 He's talking...

01:57:33.140 Yeah, see?

01:57:33.960 Yeah.

01:57:34.420 But it is roughly 65% of the physical sphere in actual light.

01:57:39.760 You can only light.

01:57:41.080 If it's a ball, you can only light 50% of it.

01:57:42.980 That's because they're counting astronomical twilight as a sunlight.

01:57:45.940 They are.

01:57:46.320 That's not the only thing, though.

01:57:48.280 That's not the only thing that makes it go over 50%.

01:57:49.720 So what's your argument for why it goes over 50%?

01:57:51.580 It's not only astronomical twilight.

01:57:53.400 Well, astronomical twilight is the first twilight that happens.

01:57:56.980 It's basically dark.

01:57:57.920 You need a telescope just to see it.

01:57:59.660 And that is the furthest extent.

01:58:00.560 It's the same reason you see the moon with a glow on it.

01:58:03.920 Yeah.

01:58:04.280 It's filled the whole moon, and then you see a glow around the moon.

01:58:08.060 Yeah, that sounds like a local light source.

01:58:09.760 But what I want to know is, like, you're going to claim the light...

01:58:12.420 You have to claim.

01:58:13.140 You have to claim that the light's bending around.

01:58:15.520 Partially bending around.

01:58:16.300 So the first issue is you making the presumption that the claim at first is correct and absolute.

01:58:24.360 Yeah.

01:58:25.020 And so that's why I said Alex is immediately wrong.

01:58:28.300 Yeah, yeah.

01:58:28.620 He said that the globe is...

01:58:29.540 Oh, no, no, hold on.

01:58:30.220 50% of the ball is lit.

01:58:31.540 And then he had to correct you.

01:58:33.180 So the 90% number comes to the population.

01:58:34.680 The issue is you're making an argument against someone's argument instead of an argument for what is.

01:58:39.020 Well, yeah.

01:58:40.100 What is known is that something like 90% of the world's population is in dilate, and they kind of stretch it based on astronomical twilight.

01:58:46.120 But if you actually look at the projection of the Earth, if we look at the globe model, right, for those people at where they're located to also be in light and not just astronomical twilight, then the light has to actually cover more than half the ball.

01:58:58.820 So you're going to have to claim the light bends around it, which don't worry.

01:59:01.420 People have no problem claiming it.

01:59:02.640 They claim whatever they need to.

01:59:03.760 They'll claim that the light will bend all the way around the ball if they need to whenever I see mountains from hundreds of miles away.

01:59:09.760 The light just bends around the globe.

01:59:10.780 But that is what he's talking about.

01:59:12.480 There's two different portions, right?

01:59:14.540 The 90% number is technically wrong if you present it as if it's physically impossible.

01:59:19.000 Speaking of that, I wanted to answer your question about Michigan.

01:59:23.440 So Joshua Nowicki, are you familiar with him?

01:59:26.100 Yeah, of course.

01:59:26.540 He's the guy that takes the pictures.

01:59:27.900 Yeah.

01:59:28.240 All right.

01:59:28.660 So I have a big section about that in the book here.

01:59:31.880 He only does it in April and May.

01:59:34.420 Okay.

01:59:34.840 Okay.

01:59:35.140 Why is that?

01:59:36.100 Well, I guess the weather's better.

01:59:38.460 Well, the weather's changing.

01:59:40.400 Okay.

01:59:40.540 So the water keeps the temperature for a longer period of time than the air does.

01:59:45.240 Okay.

01:59:45.820 Okay.

01:59:46.120 So we're just coming out of winter.

01:59:47.800 Mm-hmm.

01:59:48.520 The water's cold.

01:59:49.780 The air starts warming up.

01:59:51.440 Yes.

01:59:51.560 As soon as that air starts warming up, you're going to get light refraction.

01:59:54.880 Yeah.

01:59:55.100 So you say it's just all refraction.

01:59:57.240 Well, that's...

01:59:57.940 You think it's a mirage, though?

02:00:00.880 Do I think it's a mirage?

02:00:01.980 I mean, basically, wouldn't that be...

02:00:03.540 It's a...

02:00:04.020 We're not actually looking at it.

02:00:05.140 Mirage, illusion, whatever.

02:00:06.680 The reason you're seeing Chicago's skyline is because the light beam is being curved by

02:00:11.760 the refraction due to the temperature difference between the water and the air.

02:00:16.300 Do you know about the Flying Dutchman?

02:00:18.800 I know Dutch Bros Coffee.

02:00:20.140 I don't know the Flying Dutchman.

02:00:20.660 Are you familiar with the Flying Dutchman?

02:00:22.860 Tobacco.

02:00:23.820 Is that above?

02:00:24.800 The ship that was...

02:00:26.180 Yeah.

02:00:26.420 So they would see ships flying above the water during the colonial period.

02:00:32.180 And the legend emerged of the Flying Dutchman ghost ship.

02:00:35.980 Yeah.

02:00:36.260 It's just refraction of light made it appear that it was higher than it really was.

02:00:39.880 And sometimes they were upside down.

02:00:41.600 Yeah.

02:00:41.760 But really what happens in those is actually the boat doesn't just get lifted because

02:00:46.080 the water would have to get lifted, too, right?

02:00:47.580 Because there's light coming off the water.

02:00:49.040 It's actually that there's like a reflective inferior situation that happens.

02:00:54.200 Fata Morgana.

02:00:55.520 It actually reflects down, so it creates a mirror effect, so it makes it look like it's

02:00:59.720 up in the sky, but it's actually not.

02:01:01.200 I don't dispute optical effects.

02:01:04.180 What I do dispute is just assuming that the sphere is a certain size, therefore it must

02:01:07.940 be in this certain amount.

02:01:08.900 Because I went to that Chicago location, and there were wildfires in the west, coincidentally,

02:01:13.860 so I couldn't see anything.

02:01:15.360 Like, you couldn't even see like a mile.

02:01:17.220 But I talked to all the locals.

02:01:18.460 They said you see it throughout the year.

02:01:20.160 They said it's very frequent, certainly at sunset, that you see Chicago.

02:01:23.300 So it isn't just those couple months or anything.

02:01:25.000 It happens regularly.

02:01:26.400 And then there is an observation that you can predict years in advance every year, two

02:01:31.000 days a year.

02:01:31.880 I think it's in September and February.

02:01:33.800 In Kanegu, right?

02:01:35.120 In France.

02:01:35.760 You can see the Kanegu Mountains from a distance that should be impossible just using geometry

02:01:40.780 on a globe.

02:01:41.740 And based on that time of year, the sun sets behind the mountains and creates a silhouette.

02:01:45.620 And you can guarantee, see those mountains, line of sight, directly in front of you on

02:01:50.660 that specific day.

02:01:51.520 You can book your flight right now, unless it's like crazy.

02:01:53.460 Yeah, but you know what?

02:01:54.240 He has to assume that there's no refraction for that.

02:01:56.180 The Flying Dutchman crew upgraded their ship to a cargo freighter.

02:02:01.400 If your theory was correct, you should be able to get something as powerful as the Hubble

02:02:06.180 Space Telescope, point it toward California, and you should be able to see some structure in

02:02:11.780 California.

02:02:13.240 No.

02:02:13.900 Why not?

02:02:14.420 I'll explain it.

02:02:15.060 So like this is, we'll actually use the Kanegu explanation because it works perfectly.

02:02:18.480 So before the sun goes behind Kanegu, you can't see the mountains.

02:02:22.480 You can't see them.

02:02:23.440 You can only see the mountains once the sun gets behind it.

02:02:25.840 Now, a lot of people would take that picture and say, see, this proves the globe, the mountains

02:02:29.980 below the curve of the earth.

02:02:31.400 But then the sun gets behind it, you can see the mountains.

02:02:33.860 The reason you can't see the mountains at first is because of attenuation, right?

02:02:37.120 The light gets absorbed by the medium and it can't make it to you.

02:02:40.200 Once the sun gets behind it, now the intensity of light is so much greater,

02:02:43.860 it can actually make it through the medium, right?

02:02:46.220 So the rate of attenuation is not going to affect the image as much and you're able to

02:02:50.320 see it.

02:02:50.800 Now, even in the globe paradigm, you would have to admit that.

02:02:53.080 You would have to now say, at just 150 miles, I can't see mountains that are in front of

02:02:57.640 me because light gets attenuated and absorbed into the medium.

02:03:01.040 So this idea that you can see...

02:03:01.960 I have no problem with that.

02:03:03.100 So you couldn't see across the world.

02:03:05.120 The telescope doesn't actually fight attenuation, right?

02:03:08.360 Like, we can see stars because we're looking up through the thinnest part of the atmos.

02:03:11.960 And even there, we actually have one to two degrees.

02:03:14.080 We have almost a whole degree that we can't really know.

02:03:16.520 Well, what's the farthest you think the Hubble telescope can see through atmosphere of the

02:03:20.180 earth?

02:03:20.540 You mean like laterally, like horizontally?

02:03:22.120 Yeah.

02:03:22.460 Oh man, I don't know.

02:03:23.620 It would...

02:03:24.640 A few hundred miles because we see a few hundred miles regularly.

02:03:28.920 And Mount Wilson, you know, if you've got a higher elevation...

02:03:31.240 How could you prove a flat earth, then, if you can only see a couple hundred miles?

02:03:34.340 A few hundred.

02:03:35.340 I mean, we have observations in planes with infrared where we've seen, you know, five,

02:03:38.640 six...

02:03:38.900 Within that range of 200 miles, would Hubble be able to see a sublimation of the Chicago

02:03:49.000 skyline?

02:03:50.760 It's all based on the attenuation of the atmos.

02:03:53.460 It's always going to be based on the atmos.

02:03:54.900 The light gets absorbed.

02:03:56.240 The Kanegu proves...

02:03:57.000 Okay, so your answer is how light's affected, right?

02:04:00.920 That's what my answer to him was.

02:04:02.420 Yeah, but you're claiming it's bending at a certain rate, you know.

02:04:04.860 I'm just saying that light's attenuated.

02:04:06.520 Okay, so I'll say it's attenuated and it's bending.

02:04:09.080 But I can actually...

02:04:09.640 How does that prove a flat earth?

02:04:11.180 Well, it doesn't...

02:04:11.940 I can prove...

02:04:12.840 Well, yeah, but you have to prove it, right?

02:04:14.220 Like, you can prove the rate at which it attenuates based on the actual medium, based

02:04:18.940 on the turbulence, the turbidity, you know, and the actual...

02:04:21.660 Okay, so you have third-party factors affecting how the light comes into your I-beam.

02:04:26.560 How far it can get to you from.

02:04:28.860 Okay, so how does that prove flat earth?

02:04:31.760 Oh, because we can make observations consistently, predict them in the future from hundreds of

02:04:35.640 miles away, where the mountain should be miles at times, up to two miles below earth curvature.

02:04:42.120 I can book a flight...

02:04:42.960 How could you prove that if light's attenuated and it bends?

02:04:46.080 Well, the light attenuation is just proven by the fact you can't see the mountains until

02:04:49.580 the sun says behind it, right?

02:04:50.900 That means it's something...

02:04:52.020 The light's being affected somehow, right?

02:04:53.840 It's being absorbed by the medium.

02:04:55.520 Once the sun gets behind, the sun's so much brighter that it makes it through the medium.

02:04:59.660 But you're claiming that it's bending, and that I can go...

02:05:02.420 I can book my flight right now.

02:05:03.620 You don't believe in light refraction?

02:05:05.460 Yeah.

02:05:05.820 Light refraction?

02:05:06.320 I do believe in refraction.

02:05:07.540 You believe temperature can cause light refraction?

02:05:10.520 In a singular medium, it can have effects.

02:05:13.120 You can label that as refraction, but Snell's Law is based on two medium, and this word

02:05:17.820 is just thrown around.

02:05:18.800 It's just thrown around.

02:05:19.620 No one's going to show this in a lab.

02:05:20.840 I keep asking, show me an equation, because according to you...

02:05:23.680 Wait a minute.

02:05:23.760 Wait a minute.

02:05:24.100 My question was, do you believe light refraction can be caused by temperature difference between

02:05:30.100 water and air?

02:05:32.160 Yeah.

02:05:32.680 Yeah.

02:05:32.800 Okay.

02:05:33.100 So you can't discount light refraction like we're just making this up.

02:05:36.700 No, no.

02:05:37.120 Right?

02:05:37.360 No, not when properly defined what refraction means.

02:05:39.760 But to every time to say, I know this amount of refraction's happening without looking at

02:05:43.880 the variables and without actually making the measurements of the temperature gradients,

02:05:47.480 the density gradients, and just saying, it must be curving this amount because my presupposed...

02:05:52.320 No, we don't say that.

02:05:52.440 We don't say that, as a matter of fact.

02:05:54.760 As a matter of fact, if you look at the Chicago skyline photos, they're all different.

02:06:00.440 Some show buildings coming higher up out of the water.

02:06:04.860 Some show buildings that are thinner than they really are.

02:06:09.400 Some show more color.

02:06:11.760 Others are gray.

02:06:13.180 Every time you take a picture of the Chicago skyline, it's different.

02:06:16.560 Why?

02:06:17.180 Yeah.

02:06:17.440 Because you get different attenuation.

02:06:19.780 You get different refraction.

02:06:21.500 All kinds of things are different every single day.

02:06:24.560 Sure, but when it's clearer outside, we see further.

02:06:27.980 And your paradigm...

02:06:29.020 Okay, that's fine.

02:06:29.660 Yeah, but you have to claim when it's clear outside, that's when there's the most refraction.

02:06:33.480 Because when it's clear outside, we're seeing the furthest.

02:06:35.960 Clear has nothing to do with how much the lights refract.

02:06:38.880 Well, if it's the conditions of the medium that are supposedly refracting it, then the...

02:06:42.660 The temperature is the cause, okay?

02:06:45.760 Okay, and I was saying...

02:06:46.360 Because it makes the air thinner or thicker.

02:06:48.560 One more thing before we wrap up here.

02:06:50.720 The horizon in a globe is like this physical edge of a sphere, right?

02:06:55.380 It's blocking things.

02:06:56.400 It's a physical location.

02:06:57.640 It's geometric.

02:06:58.940 As in, on a globe, there's a physical location called the horizon blocking things in the distance.

02:07:04.340 That's an apparent horizon.

02:07:05.940 Wait, is it physical or apparent?

02:07:07.320 No, you see an apparent horizon.

02:07:09.160 Because refraction's always there.

02:07:10.400 You're not living in a vacuum.

02:07:11.480 So, you have no evidence of this physical one.

02:07:14.400 You have to assume it's there.

02:07:15.720 We see the horizon goes up and down, moves all over.

02:07:17.840 We can see from 100 miles away consistently.

02:07:19.540 I can shoot lasers over frozen lakes.

02:07:21.600 Different colors, different heights.

02:07:23.900 Even if they're different distances, they'll stay the same height over frozen lakes.

02:07:27.860 I've seen...

02:07:28.240 I can see specular reflections over great distances.

02:07:31.220 If the surface was convex or concave, you wouldn't see that.

02:07:33.860 And there are many...

02:07:34.440 All the evidence shows...

02:07:35.760 And just saying the word refraction isn't a get-out-of-jail card.

02:07:38.440 Of all the physical evidence, that consistently shows we can see way beyond the curve.

02:07:43.200 You have to prove there's a physical hill in front of me blocking things.

02:07:46.640 And there's simply not.

02:07:47.840 I can shoot radar through it.

02:07:49.000 So, I've witnessed a Falcon 9 landing on the drone ship.

02:07:52.780 You know how they land on the boat in the water?

02:07:55.120 Just after they were doing a dragon test and they accidentally blew up one of their dragon capsules,

02:07:59.400 they couldn't land at the landing zone because they had debris all over it.

02:08:02.160 So, they brought the drone ship in real close to shore.

02:08:03.980 17.8 miles offshore.

02:08:05.800 So, I was able to witness this Falcon 9 landing on the drone ship.

02:08:10.320 The engines are very bright, you know, as this thing's landing.

02:08:13.200 And I'm watching it obscured by the horizon as it's landing 17.8 miles offshore.

02:08:18.660 The bottom two-thirds of the rocket were blocked.

02:08:21.020 According to the globe, that's what I should have seen with refraction accounted for.

02:08:25.020 So, yes, refraction's a part of it.

02:08:27.120 Also, it had a nice specular highlight across the Atlantic Ocean coming up to me that was very visible.

02:08:32.980 So, if it's not curved, why can't I see a specular highlight?

02:08:36.600 And then, if it's not curved, why is the bottom two-thirds of the rocket blocked after it lands?

02:08:41.120 You can see specular reflection.

02:08:42.620 It's because—and that requires a flat surface.

02:08:45.120 And if it's flat, then why is it blocked by the lower two-thirds of the rocket?

02:08:48.200 So, you made a false claim about the specular reflection that it only works on a flat surface

02:08:51.940 because you would get a diffused reflection if it's convex and concave.

02:08:54.380 But the horizon's apparent.

02:08:55.920 It rises optically.

02:08:56.940 And the most dense part of the atmos is the bottom.

02:08:59.500 The most dense.

02:09:00.340 So, that's going to block the most things from the bottom.

02:09:02.380 Now, you said you accounted for refraction.

02:09:04.880 You did not measure the density and temperature and then put it in a refractive equation

02:09:09.280 and determine how much should be missing.

02:09:10.840 What you did was notice that it didn't match the globe.

02:09:14.120 And then you had to add refraction because you saw too much of the rocket.

02:09:17.980 It should have been more blocked.

02:09:19.160 You assumed, oh, it must be lifted up behind the curve and it's actually an illusion.

02:09:23.560 No, I recorded what the temperature was that day.

02:09:25.380 Anyway, so the bottom two-thirds of the rocket was blocked.

02:09:28.040 And the bottom part of the rocket's where all the flame is.

02:09:30.180 That's the hottest, brightest part of it.

02:09:31.800 So, why am I able to see this dim little part at the top but not the bright part of the flame at the bottom?

02:09:36.960 And I'm getting specular highlights and reflections off the water that's supposedly flat, yet it's blocking the two-third bottom part of the rocket.

02:09:43.940 Last thing I want to ask you, Witsa, before we wrap up.

02:09:45.640 Are you claiming embodying up obstructions impossible on a flat Earth?

02:09:49.380 You haven't explained it, that's for sure.

02:09:51.060 You're entirely new to this.

02:09:51.560 But here's the thing I want to ask you, Witsa, before we wrap up, is, you know, you're going to Antarctica for TFE, right?

02:09:56.960 And I applaud you for taking up that offer.

02:09:59.580 So, what are you expecting to see?

02:10:00.720 I want to know what you're expecting to see.

02:10:01.860 Are you expecting to see the sun set in Antarctica or are you not?

02:10:04.960 And if so, you know, why?

02:10:06.440 I have no idea.

02:10:07.260 I don't actually have an expectation.

02:10:09.200 I don't know.

02:10:10.640 That's where I'm going.

02:10:12.000 What if the Earth is flat, but like that, you know what I mean?

02:10:15.960 Like, does that work for you?

02:10:17.160 No, I think it would be a bowl, if anything, like a basin, the ocean, right?

02:10:21.500 Then wouldn't you see the sun all the time?

02:10:24.900 Well, it just gets so far away you can't see it.

02:10:27.160 As to what's going to happen in the Arctic, I don't know.

02:10:29.220 Like, that's why I want to go is because...

02:10:31.500 If it gets far away, it would get smaller, not just go down.

02:10:35.000 Well, technically, it actually does get smaller.

02:10:36.580 Even in the globe paradigm, it gets smaller.

02:10:38.580 It actually changes to noon.

02:10:40.200 It should change again.

02:10:40.900 That's never been measured, but...

02:10:42.780 How do you explain the sunset?

02:10:44.420 It's just like the streetlights, right?

02:10:45.700 So as it moves away, it looks like it goes down, and then it gets so far beyond the...

02:10:50.060 You can't see it through the air anymore, right?

02:10:51.600 It just gets...

02:10:52.100 It goes beyond that point.

02:10:53.160 The horizon's apparent.

02:10:54.300 It gets behind the convergence point.

02:10:57.040 Just like railroads converge, if you flipped them on their side, that would be like the sky

02:11:00.540 and the ground.

02:11:01.480 That's what perspective does.

02:11:03.340 And even in the globe paradigm, they claim like when you see the sunset, it's actually not

02:11:07.080 there.

02:11:07.260 But you're arguing that the sunset is vanishing point?

02:11:10.580 Well, yeah.

02:11:11.000 It gets beyond the...

02:11:12.360 You could say, quote-unquote, vanishing point, sure.

02:11:14.200 It gets beyond the limit of your vision, the apparent horizon.

02:11:17.640 It gets beyond the convergence point.

02:11:18.980 Is that because it's only 27 miles in diameter?

02:11:22.400 I don't make any claims as to the size, but I will say you can prove this.

02:11:24.880 Sometimes the sun disappears above the horizon, and even when it disappears above the horizon

02:11:29.060 at sunset, it has a perfect horizontal line cutting off the bottom of it.

02:11:32.680 So how does that work?

02:11:33.540 If it's the curve of the Earth, right?

02:11:35.420 But it's not.

02:11:35.940 It's because there are horizontal layers of Atmos.

02:11:37.820 The Earth...

02:11:38.240 The sun moves beyond it.

02:11:40.000 And so, you know, all the evidence shows the Earth is...

02:11:42.540 Will you be willing to admit that the Earth is round if you go to Antarctica and it looks

02:11:47.900 round?

02:11:48.680 Well, I don't see it looks round.

02:11:50.000 I mean, I'm going to take an infrared camera, and I'm going to probably see 100, 200 miles in

02:11:54.100 the plane.

02:11:55.360 So Antarctica, the only way it would prove it is if I could fly over the South Pole,

02:11:58.820 pop back up on the other side.

02:12:00.200 I'm very interested in the observation.

02:12:01.520 That's obviously why I'm going.

02:12:02.220 It's 11 days.

02:12:02.960 It's very inconvenient.

02:12:03.620 I don't blame Alex for not going.

02:12:04.760 So it's 11 days.

02:12:06.080 It's super cold.

02:12:07.260 Alex is scared.

02:12:08.080 I am scared.

02:12:09.560 It's also kind of scary in a way, right?

02:12:12.260 But we'll see what happens.

02:12:13.440 We're going to wrap things up.

02:12:14.720 This was a lot of fun.

02:12:15.980 I love this.

02:12:16.600 It was great to have these varying perspectives all going at it.

02:12:20.420 And so smash the like button.

02:12:22.260 Share the show with everyone you know.

02:12:23.240 So we've got more coming up later today.

02:12:25.880 YouTube.com slash TimCastIRL tonight at 8 p.m.

02:12:28.400 But we'll go around with final thoughts and shout-outs.

02:12:30.480 Alex, do you want to say anything before we wrap up?

02:12:31.920 Well, you know, I just want to thank all you guys for participating in this.

02:12:35.660 It's very nice for you guys to make time to come here.

02:12:38.220 And there's just a lot of questions that are still unanswered, in my opinion.

02:12:42.220 And just look into it.

02:12:44.120 Don't believe anything I say or Austin or Bob or Scott.

02:12:47.360 Just look into it yourself and then make whatever assumption you can from the evidence

02:12:51.940 that you see.

02:12:53.240 Final thoughts?

02:12:54.280 I'd say don't believe him.

02:12:55.360 Believe me.

02:12:56.100 There you go.

02:12:56.820 Just kidding.

02:12:57.200 Don't believe me.

02:12:57.740 I'm not a role model.

02:12:59.040 I'm not.

02:12:59.360 You don't want to be like me.

02:13:00.360 I'm insane.

02:13:01.100 I wear tuck-friendly bathing suits at city council meetings.

02:13:03.120 My point is, do your research and look into it yourself.

02:13:06.200 Yeah.

02:13:06.500 So I would just say, this is hard stuff.

02:13:09.400 It's hard.

02:13:09.960 Science is hard.

02:13:11.240 It's never easy.

02:13:13.680 We have a lot of data.

02:13:14.880 We have microscopes, telescopes, oscilloscopes that bring in all kinds of data.

02:13:21.320 Connecting the dots and interpreting that data correctly, that's the hard part.

02:13:26.560 And that's where we are right now.

02:13:28.340 Is there somewhere people can find you?

02:13:31.280 Yeah.

02:13:31.840 So www.robertsongenis.org.

02:13:36.940 And we have a science website also, journeytothecenteroftheuniverse.com.

02:13:44.540 All right.

02:13:45.680 Sir, final thoughts?

02:13:46.820 Anything to shout out?

02:13:48.960 Yeah.

02:13:49.560 So I would just, I think the conversation is way more in depth than people realize.

02:13:54.760 And I would just say, look into it.

02:13:57.640 There's a philosophical bias to this idea that the earth is special and in the center,

02:14:01.620 it has philosophical implications.

02:14:02.780 And, you know, just don't shy away from looking into it because people will mock and ridicule

02:14:07.380 you.

02:14:07.560 The evidence is overwhelming that the earth is stationary, thus in the center.

02:14:11.440 And I would say it's overwhelming that it's actually a topographical plane.

02:14:14.080 Just look into it to each their own.

02:14:16.840 And science is not about dogma, right?

02:14:19.800 That's the death of knowledge.

02:14:21.240 So you should be able to have like an intellectual discussion, disagreements without freaking

02:14:25.640 out.

02:14:26.240 And yeah, you can find me, what's it gets it on all platforms or what's it dot TV.

02:14:31.660 All right.

02:14:32.300 So I want to thank Witsit for inviting me to this debate.

02:14:35.460 I had a good time.

02:14:36.340 Thanks, Tim, for hosting this.

02:14:38.220 You can find me on YouTube, Astronomy Live.

02:14:40.940 I develop, like I said, I do a lot of work developing rocket tracking software, satellite

02:14:44.960 tracking software.

02:14:46.120 I actually have to account for stellar aberration and doing that stuff too, which is kind of

02:14:49.480 fun.

02:14:50.020 So it's been great for me to sort of engage with ideas that I don't necessarily hold,

02:14:55.660 but to be able to go out there and collect evidence yourself.

02:14:59.940 And that's one of the things that I love about astronomy so much is that it's so accessible

02:15:03.720 and anyone can get involved and do it.

02:15:05.760 You don't need a big expansive telescope to get started.

02:15:08.420 And you can go out and investigate these things yourself and take your own measurements

02:15:11.680 because, I mean, yeah, I now am happy and proud to be able to say that I've measured

02:15:17.820 the size of the Earth myself.

02:15:18.920 I've measured the distance of the sun myself.

02:15:20.840 And these are all things that anyone can do.

02:15:22.240 If I can do it, anyone can do it.

02:15:23.420 I'm not a professional astronomer.

02:15:24.700 I'm just an amateur astronomer.

02:15:26.180 I'm just a neuroscientist who loves playing astronomer at night.

02:15:28.700 So thank you all.

02:15:30.440 Right on.

02:15:30.920 Well, everybody, thanks so much for hanging out.

02:15:32.700 Like I said, we'll be back at 8 p.m.

02:15:34.220 YouTube.com slash TimCastIRL.

02:15:36.100 And we will see you all then.

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02:16:11.160 In the dry states of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a basic human right.

02:16:16.960 In the Navajo Nation today, a third of our households don't have running water.

02:16:20.580 But that's not something they chose for themselves.

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02:16:39.800 Listen now, wherever you get your podcasts.

The Culture War - Tim Pool - November 22, 2024

The Flat Earth Conspiracy Debate

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