The Culture War - Tim Pool - December 09, 2025


Tim Pool Goes NUCLEAR On Candace For Ripping Apart MAGA Coalition ft. Auron MacIntyre


Episode Stats


Length

35 minutes

Words per minute

193.89197

Word count

6,863

Sentence count

453

Harmful content

Misogyny

23

sentences flagged

Toxicity

16

sentences flagged

Hate speech

3

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Candace Owens is a conservative commentator and pundit who has been thrust into the spotlight for her role in the Gamergaters movement. On this episode of The FiveThirtyEight podcast, we talk about how she became one of the most recognizable names in the pro-pro-Donald Trump movement.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
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00:01:16.400 A number of guys I was talking with were trying to understand this behavior and why there was such a market for it.
00:01:25.440 And the answer I told them is like, guys, you're not people to Candace Owens' audience.
00:01:30.840 You're characters in a TV show, right?
00:01:33.520 Right.
00:01:33.700 Like, your death on a TV screen is just a plot twist.
00:01:38.100 You don't have a family.
00:01:39.540 I mean, look at the way that people are treating Erica Kirk as she's trying to raise these poor children after being widowed in this incredibly violent act. 0.97
00:01:46.860 But, you know, you would never say something like what's being said about Erica Kirk to anyone's face.
00:01:52.240 And you shouldn't.
00:01:52.920 If you do, you wouldn't walk out of a room with me in it.
00:01:55.140 I opened up, obviously, addressing Tim's.
00:01:58.620 I'm calling it a patriot crash out.
00:02:00.480 I was emphasizing that I use crash out as a term of endearment.
00:02:03.440 I correctly identified that when someone I don't like is having a moment, it's a spurg out. 0.52
00:02:09.880 And then when it's a patriot, it's a crash out.
00:02:11.880 So I use that as a term of endearment.
00:02:13.220 I wanted to bring you in and get your thoughts on last night and sort of overall your thoughts on Candace and her role in this movement.
00:02:22.060 So I'll give you the floor here.
00:02:25.140 Yeah, I mean, I can certainly understand Tim's frustration, especially given all the security concerns and everything else happening there.
00:02:32.540 I think ultimately he recognizes that pushing different narratives about nefarious actors inside the Republican Party, conservative movements, these kind of things, you know, artificially attributing fault to different people.
00:02:46.180 This can drive people to ridiculous and radical action.
00:02:50.600 I mean, obviously, we don't know if that's what happened in this case.
00:02:53.220 We don't have enough information, but we've seen the way in which leftist propaganda and other suggestions about the fact that different actors are behind, you know, violence or corrupting different things is going to drive people towards these conspiracy theories and make them more likely to take some kind of violent action.
00:03:13.060 And I will say that it's been interesting to watch this development.
00:03:16.920 I don't know how many people remember this, but for those of us who have been around since Gamergate, the deep lore from Candace Owens originally was that she ran this site social autopsy, which was basically like a doxing service to try to ruin the life of people online. 0.82
00:03:34.260 Now, eventually she kind of changed her tune and the left didn't like her very much.
00:03:38.840 She got some kind of blowback.
00:03:40.140 And so this kind of moved her to the right.
00:03:42.400 This was her, the left left me, Dave Rubin type moment.
00:03:46.220 But, you know, it's always been difficult to tell.
00:03:48.960 Is that a real Candace or is that Candace moving with the currents?
00:03:53.480 She's obviously always been somebody who is very talented.
00:03:57.020 Somebody who is able to be captivating, has a lot of charisma, can put her pulse on what people want to hear.
00:04:03.980 But is she saying what she really believes, right?
00:04:06.440 She went from being a pro-doxing, anti-Gamergate liberal to being kind of this new right MAGA coalition person.
00:04:15.520 She fed kind of the boomer con based blacks, get the African-Americans off the Democrat reservation, Blexit type narrative. 1.00
00:04:24.000 And so she's just kind of always found this audience where she can say exactly to them what they want to hear.
00:04:30.280 Now, maybe that is really her genuine political evolution.
00:04:33.860 But that that fact that she's once again found herself with a new audience that she can tell exactly what they want to hear, when they want to hear it, create the drama, fit that exact.
00:04:43.660 It just feels pretty convenient that once again, we find ourselves in that place with Candace's trajectory.
00:04:49.080 Yeah. Well, I mean, I was reading earlier, Keith Woods, he kind of put together these turns that she's had throughout her career and tied it to these moments in the sort of the political zeitgeist and how she seemingly adopts the position where the most energy is at any given time or there is significant energy at any given time.
00:05:07.040 I mean, he pointed out how she was actually a Zionist.
00:05:11.060 She was an avowed Zionist for the longest time as she was a part of the broader MAGA coalition.
00:05:16.600 October 7th happens. Obviously, there's a lot of this energy sort of critiquing Israel, you know, sort of analyzing our relationship with Israel.
00:05:24.620 And then suddenly she turns into this like bold, brash anti-Zionist like overnight, and that becomes her new brand.
00:05:34.480 And to me, I'm just looking at that. I'm looking at all these touch points throughout her career.
00:05:38.380 And to me, the priority for her seems to be audience. There doesn't seem to be a North Star.
00:05:43.520 It doesn't seem to be a mission. There doesn't seem to be sort of a vision for how she would like the country to be.
00:05:49.340 It's just like perpetual contrarianism.
00:05:52.900 And to be fair, this strain exists on the right.
00:05:55.720 And it's been a big problem of perpetual contrarianism where as soon as we accumulate any power, like, for example, in the second term here,
00:06:03.080 where things by all accounts are directionally correct, they instantly become skeptical.
00:06:07.340 They instantly become uneasy. They instantly try to analyze like, OK, there has to be something off here.
00:06:11.860 There has to be something wrong. We're never in power.
00:06:13.920 But Candace has taken this to a whole new level where she is just consistently looking for what could turn her into the victim. 0.96
00:06:22.760 And this goes all the way back to 2007, obviously, when she joined forces of the NAACP to extract $35,000.
00:06:31.780 And that's all I see here.
00:06:33.680 I just see her constantly trying to line up on the side that would make her the underdog and make her be the renegade. 0.99
00:06:42.060 That seems to be what she's prioritizing at all times.
00:06:45.880 Well, and, you know, she also gets the advantage, and I'll say this in to some level her defense, the fact that people get so incensed about her,
00:06:55.800 the fact that people so overshoot what she's doing, they will make factual errors.
00:07:00.800 And then she gets to capitalize on them, right? 0.96
00:07:03.100 Like, so I think she is saying some rather ridiculous stuff. 0.84
00:07:06.660 I'm not here to agree with most of it.
00:07:08.980 But the point is that when, you know, when someone comes out and says, well, Charlie Kirk never sent this kind of text message.
00:07:16.060 He never expressed these views.
00:07:18.040 He would never do that.
00:07:19.060 And then she can turn around and reveal this in some kind of big evidence, you know, on her podcast.
00:07:24.740 This lends her credibility, this gives her momentum, and this allows her audience to then buy into some of the more extreme or ridiculous things she's saying.
00:07:34.640 Because if Candace had the receipts on this, then maybe she has it on the other stuff, right?
00:07:38.840 And so there's always, and that's the nice thing for her.
00:07:41.220 She can advance, you know, 10 crazy theories. 1.00
00:07:43.360 And even if nine of them get swatted down, if one of them happens to be right, now she's vindicated and she just pushes that theory and uses that as the stepping stone.
00:07:53.740 So you can lose nine times, win once, and you're ultimately the winner, right?
00:07:58.300 And this is kind of the Alex Jones thing.
00:08:00.140 And again, not to tie these to one-to-one, but a lot of people would forever say, how does Alex Jones get all these things right, right?
00:08:06.200 He seems so crazy, he's out there, but he seems right more often than he's wrong.
00:08:09.460 And the answer is like, well, Alex Jones just said that everybody in the establishment was evil and doing the most evil thing all the time.
00:08:15.740 And even though a lot of times he was wrong about the specifics, he's directionally correct that these are the most evil people in the world.
00:08:22.200 So he's going to hit more often than he misses just because of that.
00:08:25.460 It's not as extreme for Candace, but I feel like she's also benefiting from that dynamic as well.
00:08:31.000 Yeah, and the way that she's sort of unveiling and revealing these new twists in her and sort of the story that she's concocting.
00:08:37.120 I mean, I've talked about before how we're seeing within conservative media sort of the Mr. Beastification of polemics, where people are just trying to go as loud and bold and brash and colorful as possible.
00:08:48.600 She's sort of putting together the Netflixification of polemics, where she's like, stay tuned for episode two, where I reveal that Charlie Kirk was in love with me, or that Badritte Macron has transitioned back to being a woman.
00:09:03.000 Like, you never know what's going to happen, and that's, unfortunately, the way that Americans operate.
00:09:08.620 We eat that up, hook, line, and sinker.
00:09:11.180 And it's just really alarming to see that politics is a very serious thing.
00:09:15.780 Like, this is what people forget.
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00:09:48.080 Look, I know it can be fun, and there's memes, and there's jokes, and there's a degree of entertainment.
00:09:53.460 The blood sport side, obviously, has always been around to some degree, but is really amplified in the social media era.
00:10:00.480 But we saw Charlie Kirk die in 4K footage on all of our phones.
00:10:05.040 We all remember where we were.
00:10:06.900 And after that moment, it should be really real to people that, you know, whatever aside, this is life and death.
00:10:13.180 And we're talking about the country that we're going to leave to our children and grandchildren.
00:10:16.380 And then you see people like her engaging in the Netflixification, that's a tough word, the Netflixification of politics. 0.93
00:10:25.160 It's really just really horrible to see.
00:10:27.680 It's like these people just don't know what time it is.
00:10:31.100 You know, I tried to explain to people, because a number of guys I was talking with were trying to understand this behavior and why there was such a market for it.
00:10:41.100 And the answer I told them is, like, guys, you're not people to Candace Owens' audience.
00:10:46.500 You're characters in a TV show, right?
00:10:49.120 Right.
00:10:49.480 Like, your death on a TV screen is just a plot twist.
00:10:53.740 You don't have a family.
00:10:55.180 I mean, look at the way that people are treating Erica Kirk as she's trying to raise these poor children after being widowed in this incredibly violent act. 0.97
00:11:02.360 But, you know, you would never say something like what's being said about Erica Kirk to anyone's face.
00:11:07.840 And you shouldn't if you do, you wouldn't walk out of a room with me in it.
00:11:10.820 But ultimately, that, you know, people will just do this because she's just she's just the wicked stepmom on some TV show they're watching. 0.94
00:11:18.640 It's not not a real person.
00:11:20.220 And of course, we can draw this back to The Daily Show.
00:11:23.140 You know, I'm old enough.
00:11:24.160 I'm an old man.
00:11:24.920 I remember when The Daily Show started.
00:11:27.620 You know, let Unk take you back to the before times when the magic was written.
00:11:32.560 But but but, you know, I remember when The Daily Show came out and this was a big deal because before that news was news and entertainment was entertainment.
00:11:43.960 You had a few programs like Donahue or like Crossfire where people would try to like debate.
00:11:49.540 But for the most part, even those programs at least provided a veneer of serious addressing of issues as where John Stewart was obviously just mugging for the camera and bringing politicians on to embarrass them.
00:12:02.940 And, you know, in and the clown knows on clown knows off thing where he would preach, you know, and then all of a sudden pretend he's a clown so that he doesn't have the consequences of being a political commentator.
00:12:12.500 And this became the mode by which politics got communicated to people.
00:12:17.580 Right. All of a sudden, people didn't get their news from Walter Cronkite or some serious news desk.
00:12:22.460 They got it while, you know, Stephen Colbert was cracking jokes about Trump.
00:12:26.180 And the fact that those things have been hybridized means that's very difficult for us to take politics seriously anymore.
00:12:32.840 Politics isn't just something that's happening.
00:12:35.740 It's not the way our country is governed.
00:12:37.800 It's an entertainment product.
00:12:38.900 We now consume it in the way that we would consume anything else.
00:12:42.720 And, of course, you and I work in this industry, so it's not like we're completely, you know, without guilt to some degree on this.
00:12:49.620 But the fact that that has become the mode means that someone like Candace can operate without really needing to provide any serious news content while still driving the political conversation. 1.00
00:13:00.960 And this is what happens when the right has to do all of especially its politics online in the entertainment sphere.
00:13:07.660 We don't have academia.
00:13:09.200 We don't have other places where we can cultivate ideas, argue ideas in a serious way.
00:13:14.440 The only way we do it is podcasts and news shows and entertainment.
00:13:18.760 Yeah, well, I mean, because that's why there's kind of been this rush since the MAGA movement sort of originated to intellectualize a lot of these ideas.
00:13:26.700 And people kind of rolled their eyes at it.
00:13:28.480 But you kind of need that stability for people because, again, when something like the Charlie Kirk assassination happens and it's so dramatic and it's so scary, quite frankly, that breeds a lot of anxiety in people.
00:13:41.860 That breeds a lot of discomfort and instability and these sorts of things.
00:13:46.500 And Candace is exploiting that by instead of sort of backfilling and providing people with a vision forward. 0.56
00:13:52.340 Here's what we need to do.
00:13:53.240 Here's how we can prevent this from ever happening again.
00:13:56.400 She peddles these conspiracy theories.
00:13:58.940 It's it's almost a cliche is peddling conspiracy theories, but that's what's going on here.
00:14:03.820 And it's because the audience, quite frankly, is looking for an answer here.
00:14:08.380 They don't want to believe the reality that a lone gunman or, you know, whatever collaboration, but that effectively a random guy can take down a titan like Charlie Kirk.
00:14:17.680 People don't want to believe that people don't want to believe that the world is that chaotic.
00:14:21.320 The world is that evil.
00:14:22.980 They would rather believe that there has to be some bigger motivation here.
00:14:27.040 This can't be how this ends.
00:14:28.700 This can't be how the story ends.
00:14:29.620 We saw the same thing with the Trump assassination.
00:14:31.140 We don't want to believe that, you know, this sort of evil and chaos could be enacted by such a relatively insignificant party.
00:14:41.020 But that's just the reality of the world we live in.
00:14:43.120 I mean, the reality of this world is it is chaotic.
00:14:45.060 It is scary.
00:14:46.600 And that's not a good feeling.
00:14:49.000 And that's why, you know, strong policy, strong executive power is sort of the anecdote right now.
00:14:54.640 And it would be really useful if people like Candace were sort of steering people in the correct direction. 0.53
00:15:02.440 But no, she's exploiting this tendency for people. 1.00
00:15:05.060 They need security right now.
00:15:06.180 And they would rather hear that, oh, no, there's this huge network that took them out rather than the reality is, you know, Tyler Robinson and maybe a few of his friends and local agitators were behind this ultimately.
00:15:19.260 You know, I'm trying to remember, I think it was Genghis Khan had the famous quote, you know, if you had not created, if you had not committed these monstrous sins, God would not have sent me to punish you.
00:15:29.820 And in a way, that's kind of Candace Owens right now, right?
00:15:32.760 So what we have is an epistemological crisis, right?
00:15:36.100 We've had a shattering of the way we gather and understand information.
00:15:40.220 After the COVID, after all the betrayals involved, every institution from the medical to the political to the religious, the news, everything broke down.
00:15:51.640 Everything lied to us.
00:15:53.460 Everything we were told was a conspiracy theory turned out to be true.
00:15:57.420 It was, you know, the joke is like the difference between a mainstream media headline and a right-wing conspiracy theory is three months.
00:16:03.180 Yeah.
00:16:03.340 Right?
00:16:03.720 Like that's where we're at.
00:16:05.600 And so there, you know, many of us warned this, right?
00:16:08.820 Like you guys can't keep doing this.
00:16:10.940 If you keep doing this, you will break the machine.
00:16:13.480 You will break society.
00:16:15.380 And they did.
00:16:16.500 They didn't listen.
00:16:17.320 They kept doing it.
00:16:18.140 And now the cost is coming due.
00:16:19.960 And I don't like what Candace is doing, but it's kind of inevitable, right?
00:16:24.820 If every, if all trust in institutions and news is shattered, then how do we come to a shared understanding of the world?
00:16:32.200 The answer is we don't.
00:16:34.180 And people like Candace Owens can capitalize on that. 1.00
00:16:37.120 So is she doing something bad?
00:16:38.880 Yeah, I think so.
00:16:39.820 But is she more of a symptom of a larger problem than the problem itself?
00:16:44.280 Yeah.
00:16:44.440 I really think that she ultimately is.
00:16:46.520 We can't shatter truth.
00:16:48.680 We can't shatter our collective sense-making apparatus in the United States and the wider West and then turn around and be like, why are people believing Candace Owens?
00:16:56.960 Why are people believing these conspiracy theories?
00:16:59.400 Well, because the last 10 conspiracy theories they believe turned out to be right.
00:17:02.420 So why would 11 be any different?
00:17:04.980 Yeah, that's a great point is that, I mean, especially following Charlie Kirk's assassination, there was a huge vacuum for information on the right.
00:17:11.760 And like you said, I mean, Candace Owens is a symptom. 0.99
00:17:14.100 If it wasn't her, we would just be insert name here. 0.97
00:17:17.240 Oh, insert name here is really tearing this coalition apart.
00:17:20.580 I mean, the reality, people like you have said this for years or something along these lines is like the need for a counter-elite to be ready to go, ready to rock.
00:17:28.720 And in the instance that, you know, Trump is successful and he seems to be trending in this direction at sort of picking apart this elite that has lied to us at every turn.
00:17:37.760 Like you've said, they've corrupted virtually every institution that exists, barring like, I don't know, like police unions.
00:17:42.820 So every institution is off the table for the right that does, you know, sort of.
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00:18:39.360 Amplify the need that we have for a counter-elite to be ready to rock, ready to go when their number is called.
00:18:45.640 So like you said, I mean, this vacuum occurs and yeah, people are going to turn to Candice Owen.
00:18:51.420 She's providing an explanation.
00:18:52.760 She's providing, you know, she's stitching together a narrative that you can buy into because in many ways there's not many other narratives for people to buy into.
00:19:01.980 It's a total, total mess.
00:19:05.280 And yeah, that was an excellent point, right?
00:19:08.160 I mean, yeah, Candice Owens is sort of the one of the many, many, one of the many pieces of this storm, not necessarily the cause of the storm.
00:19:18.600 And this is something I've really been trying to get the right to understand.
00:19:22.900 And they don't like this because it strikes at kind of a very thin veil that they've had pulled over kind of their actual political situation.
00:19:32.740 But the truth is that especially in mask politics, when we're scaling up politics and including hundreds of millions of people and trying to persuade them one way or another, people need narratives.
00:19:44.640 You know, I think this is the one contribution Jordan Peterson actually provided to the right.
00:19:48.440 It's not just about truth in the Sam Harris biological science way.
00:19:53.860 It's about truth in the collective understanding way.
00:19:57.160 And narratives are not less or more true than science.
00:20:00.100 They are the way in which we understand all things, including science or others.
00:20:04.460 And when we don't fill a space with a narrative, when there isn't a cohesive way for us to collectively understand an event, something will fill that void.
00:20:13.420 Right.
00:20:13.760 Something will come in and fill that space.
00:20:15.840 And frankly, the fact that the Trump administration, while they have made great gains in other areas, have simply done basically nothing about the death of Charlie Kirk.
00:20:26.900 The narrative has been empty.
00:20:28.440 Right.
00:20:28.660 We hear little to nothing about the shooting.
00:20:30.880 We see little to no action about this.
00:20:33.780 Yes, we've designated Antifa and terrorist group both domestically and internationally.
00:20:37.220 Great.
00:20:37.760 Where are my arrests?
00:20:38.900 Where are my raids?
00:20:39.880 Why is it there?
00:20:40.640 You know, J6 guys had FBI agents swinging through windows, pulling them out of beds, ripping them out of their truck cabs, pulling them out of their workplaces a few weeks after the event.
00:20:51.600 Why can't we do that for radical leftists who are encouraging violence like we saw against Charlie Kirk and likely like we've seen against other conservative commentators?
00:21:01.700 Why can't they do that? 1.00
00:21:02.880 The answer is they're either scared or they're stupid. 1.00
00:21:06.460 There is no other answer to this question. 1.00
00:21:08.500 And in that void comes the conspiracies.
00:21:11.900 Well, why aren't we taking real action?
00:21:14.180 Maybe we don't know.
00:21:15.320 Maybe people are involved that the Trump administration doesn't want out it.
00:21:18.360 Right.
00:21:18.500 Like all those things start to come out because we see nothing happening.
00:21:22.600 Our shared reality doesn't make sense.
00:21:25.860 And so someone can come in and fill that.
00:21:27.760 And that's what Candace is doing, maybe for the worse. 1.00
00:21:30.860 But if you're not going to fill that appetite, somebody is.
00:21:33.600 What does this say about the state of debate?
00:21:37.560 Because, I mean, people correctly identified following Kirk that debate the left had given up on it.
00:21:44.100 They were just going kinetic.
00:21:45.060 They're saying, you know, we're tired of these roundtable discussions.
00:21:47.460 We just want power now.
00:21:48.760 But now within our coalition where Candace is unresponsive to any evidence provided debunking it, like, you know, Bridget Macron, it's like, okay, no, she's not a man.
00:21:58.900 She's just chopped. 1.00
00:21:59.720 Like, that's just like what's going on here.
00:22:01.120 There's no deeper.
00:22:02.200 There's no deeper conspiracy.
00:22:03.520 There's just people are unresponsive to information.
00:22:08.080 Scott Greer, I don't know if he coined the term, but he's certainly popularized the clown world where the right wing polemics has just turned into a spectacle.
00:22:17.300 How do you debate spectacle?
00:22:19.320 Because you have people that are intellectuals to some degree or just, you know, truth seekers.
00:22:24.360 And they're up against people that thrive in spectacle.
00:22:27.080 They're up against people that seek to further cultivate it and create these bombastic narratives.
00:22:32.800 It's like, how do you argue with that?
00:22:34.240 I mean, because Americans especially are very receptive to the most entertaining of narratives.
00:22:40.220 That's why we produce the best movies.
00:22:43.720 Like, how can you debate that?
00:22:45.660 How is there any roundtable discussion when that's like, there's total, there's no parody right now.
00:22:51.680 There's no common ground.
00:22:53.180 I mean, you can't really.
00:22:54.700 And this is one of the fatal flaws of democracy.
00:22:57.680 Democracy always devolves into this.
00:22:59.800 This is why every ancient thinker, you know, said this was the worst possible system, because ultimately, especially as you widen the franchise, right, you can have a limited democracy.
00:23:09.160 You can have a limited republic, as we would actually want to call it, where there's a certain set of, you know, well, you know, well-heeled, well-educated, thoughtful, resourceful people who come together and vote and make the decisions because they have involved themselves as responsible citizens and virtuous citizens inside the body politic.
00:23:29.360 But the wider you get the voting group, the less that aspect goes away, right?
00:23:34.720 And the more mass democracy you get, the more people who are just, you know, barely paying attention, you know, they don't have any time, they don't have the leisure time.
00:23:43.780 Again, this is not to downgrade or denigrate people for this.
00:23:47.720 Like, ultimately, you shouldn't spend your whole life obsessed with politics.
00:23:51.160 We should have a good enough regime where the average person doesn't need to vote for hours of their day listening to a bunch of different podcasts, desperately hoping to sift through the truth.
00:24:01.200 Like, that's not the way that life should be.
00:24:03.540 But when you open up the entire voting base to this, well, you're going to eventually run down to the lowest common denominator.
00:24:10.720 I mean, anyone who's been in a group project or a public school or anything knows exactly how this works, right?
00:24:17.080 Like, if you've got two or three studious people working on the project, you're fine.
00:24:20.740 But if you get five, ten people, you know, you're going to get some people who don't care what's going on.
00:24:25.240 And just the quality level is going to slowly degrade.
00:24:28.300 And this is just what's going to keep happening in our scenario.
00:24:31.680 The more people who want to feed into this content, the harder it is to refute.
00:24:36.200 So I think there's still some utility to having discussions and debates, but you can't expect that to win over the masses at this point.
00:24:43.920 You have to get better at the game or you have to change the game.
00:24:47.200 Those are your two options.
00:24:49.080 Yeah, I mean, because we're seeing on the GOP, I mean, it's really math.
00:24:53.320 I mean, as the population gets bigger, information diversifies.
00:24:57.860 Everyone's in their own lane.
00:25:00.220 I mean, people will introduce me.
00:25:01.800 And I'm in politics, and they'll introduce me to a commentator who has hundreds of thousands of followers, and they're not even on my radar.
00:25:08.140 Like, people are all within, like, these different silos of information.
00:25:11.760 And there's some value to that, to a degree, because, you know, there's new ideas being introduced to the zeitgeist.
00:25:17.100 And oftentimes, some of these ideas are quite valuable, and you can evaluate them and these sorts of things.
00:25:21.460 But, you know, going into 2024, Trump had to stitch together a coalition to get across the finish line.
00:25:27.880 Because, like I said, you know, everyone's in their own lane.
00:25:30.780 Everyone's, you know, diversified.
00:25:32.220 It's not like the 80s, where pretty much everyone was on the same page, like, for better or for worse.
00:25:37.000 And then now, as soon as one of these coalitions that was brought into the fray feels wrong, feels like their issue is not being addressed, they immediately splinter off.
00:25:45.960 And beyond that, with the coalition, we needed our rock stars to push things across the finish line.
00:25:51.100 A lot of these comedians, these brocasters, as they've been dubbed, immediately soured on things as soon as it became, as soon as they started receiving pushback from presumably people in their circle.
00:26:01.960 Media Matters clipped me discussing the Tim Dillon, Joe Rogan kind of sphere, where as soon as the mass deportations went underway, they immediately soured.
00:26:13.760 And they said, oh, well, this is too far.
00:26:15.780 Like, I didn't vote for this.
00:26:16.720 I didn't think you were sending back my nanny and my lawnscaper.
00:26:20.300 I don't understand.
00:26:21.400 Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:26:22.500 And it's like, that's like you're pointing out with democracy, with the way this works.
00:26:27.400 It's just about getting to 50%.
00:26:28.980 And you can introduce all these different parties into your coalition.
00:26:32.480 If anybody's played the Victoria games, you know how hard it is to maintain coalitions because everybody in your coalition wants something different.
00:26:40.840 So I guess all this to say, how do we keep this coalition going together or stick together going into the midterms?
00:26:47.600 Because everything's splintering.
00:26:48.540 I think Tim's, you know, moment last night, in many ways, actually brought a bit of unity.
00:26:53.540 You saw people from Ben Shapiro to Nick Fuentes all saying, like, thank you.
00:26:57.580 Someone finally said it.
00:26:58.980 But obviously, these moments are short.
00:27:01.440 You can't stitch a coalition around being, like, anti-Candace Owens.
00:27:05.240 How do we move forward as a right wing broadly with so many different competing factions in the party?
00:27:13.320 Well, like I said, a real problem is you don't have hygiene for your epistemology because you don't have control of institutions.
00:27:21.180 There's no way to punish institutionally Candace Owens for what's going on here. 1.00
00:27:25.660 What are you going to cut her off from, right?
00:27:27.080 Like, ultimately, she's got her own fan base.
00:27:29.480 She's got her own audience coming in.
00:27:32.080 She's got her own network distribution. 0.91
00:27:34.320 She doesn't need the Daily Wire or Fox News or anything to build her brand. 0.61
00:27:38.380 And so she's very insulated from any kind of real blowback. 0.90
00:27:43.480 Now, I guess one upside would be as she gets more ridiculous, that's as large as she can get, right? 1.00
00:27:49.520 Like, at some point, there is a market cap for what she's doing.
00:27:52.840 And she's alienated herself from everyone else so much that they're not going to have her on.
00:27:57.080 She's going to have a hard time growing outside of her audience. 1.00
00:27:59.280 So there is, like, a natural barrier to the explosive nature of her growth, but it's still pretty large, right?
00:28:06.100 Now, remember, you know, one of the ways that Trump ultimately kind of solved the coalition problem is he actually ended debate, right? 0.63
00:28:13.340 He walked in and said, like, oh, you're a racist. 0.99
00:28:15.620 You're a sexy. 1.00
00:28:16.100 He's like, no, you're dumb. 1.00
00:28:16.960 You're ugly. 1.00
00:28:17.440 We're moving on, right? 0.99
00:28:18.240 Like, he wasn't sitting there working out the nuances of policy.
00:28:22.020 He's like, no, it's America first.
00:28:23.600 We do this.
00:28:24.160 They go home. 0.71
00:28:24.840 We deport them. 0.96
00:28:25.440 The end, right?
00:28:25.940 Like, he's not getting into the nuance.
00:28:27.720 They're very bad people.
00:28:28.820 They have to go home.
00:28:29.820 I'm not hearing any arguments about it.
00:28:31.380 You know, like, that was the style that ultimately kind of allowed things to come back together.
00:28:35.860 I think Trump victories, I think Trump's strength would recenter the coalition.
00:28:41.880 I think one of the reasons we've kind of seen it drifting so badly is it's very clear that,
00:28:46.720 especially after October 7th and all the focus on that, the Trump presidency sadly has been
00:28:52.560 one that is more of a foreign policy presidency.
00:28:54.860 He's been trying to figure out peace in Ukraine and peace in Israel and working out all these
00:28:59.080 deals.
00:28:59.700 And what people really wanted was domestic victories.
00:29:02.440 They wanted deportations.
00:29:03.740 They wanted to see left-wingers who had violated their rights and attacked the Trump administration
00:29:09.440 go to jail for their crimes.
00:29:11.800 If Trump was winning those victories, I think the opportunity to splinter the coalition would
00:29:16.400 be less.
00:29:17.200 I think more people would be loyal to those victories.
00:29:19.840 They would be energized by those victories, the momentum.
00:29:22.140 I mean, just think back to the beginning of the Trump presidency with signing all the
00:29:25.520 executive orders, knocking all these, you know, victories out of the park.
00:29:28.940 There was none of this, right?
00:29:30.160 There was none of this push against what was going on.
00:29:33.280 You know, it's only once things slowed down, it became clear that congressional Republicans
00:29:36.900 were going to muck everything up, that we were going to see judges overturning all this
00:29:40.360 stuff.
00:29:40.680 And then, you know, just the kind of slowdown of the control.
00:29:44.060 That's what gave room, I think, for people to then doubt what was going on and try to
00:29:48.340 like cut their own piece out of the coalition and go their own way.
00:29:51.480 Now we see the neocons trying to get rid of J.D. Vance because they want to return and
00:29:55.880 own the party. 0.97
00:29:56.960 Everyone knows that if Trump doesn't do something drastic, he's a lame duck, right?
00:30:01.000 If the Republicans lose the midterms and then you go into another year where like things
00:30:05.680 aren't going well for Republicans and they have even less control over things, you're
00:30:09.420 going to spiral into this like everyone's just going to feeding frenzy because they don't
00:30:13.080 know what to do in a post-Trump Republican party.
00:30:16.400 I think the only thing that really brings the coalition back together is victory on the
00:30:20.560 part of the Trump administration.
00:30:22.280 Yeah.
00:30:22.560 Yeah.
00:30:22.760 Just smother any dissent and victory.
00:30:24.980 I mean, that's a very simple, simple solution.
00:30:27.300 I guess one more question I have for you.
00:30:29.760 I don't know if this puts you on the spot a little bit, but with the ramp up in violence
00:30:34.760 we're seeing obviously against specifically the commentary class and our elected officials
00:30:40.000 over the last few years and specifically in the last year, how do people in that sphere
00:30:45.960 continue to operate?
00:30:47.460 I mean, obviously here at Timcast we're having conversations on how we're going to move forward
00:30:50.660 after this.
00:30:51.340 I mean, this was seriously a wake-up call and a very scary situation.
00:30:56.100 People around the sphere have sort of discussed and talked about the different threats they face
00:31:02.160 and the drastic measures they have to go to counter that.
00:31:05.440 Obviously our opponents on the left don't really have to deal with that.
00:31:10.520 They can hang out in Beverly Hills and it's not really a problem.
00:31:14.060 But what do you think the future is for the commentary and the political class?
00:31:17.900 Do you think it's going to shake out a lot of good people who just are afraid of what
00:31:22.180 could happen?
00:31:22.760 I mean, how do you see all of this playing out?
00:31:24.900 Is there an off-ramp?
00:31:25.700 I mean, what's going on here?
00:31:27.600 It certainly could.
00:31:28.540 It could easily push people out.
00:31:30.080 It could cow people, make them, you know, parrot less radical or less bold positions
00:31:35.900 in hopes of, you know, staving off the worst of it.
00:31:38.800 Though I think that's a mistake because you can see it's really not the most radical people
00:31:41.860 they're being target.
00:31:42.780 Tim is many things, but certainly not radical.
00:31:45.660 And so the fact that this is the way that things are going, I don't think stepping back
00:31:49.740 your rhetoric is going to really help you here.
00:31:52.140 I mean, obviously the real solution is the Trump administration needs to get very serious
00:31:56.540 and very kinetic about its, as my friend John Doyle says, it's very cool.
00:32:02.200 It's very cool and very legal annihilation of the left.
00:32:07.400 That's the actual answer.
00:32:09.320 But since we can't seem to compel them to do that, though, I will continue to push.
00:32:13.860 The only answer is then people have to look to themselves.
00:32:16.260 Look, I'm not going anywhere.
00:32:18.360 You know, me and God are good.
00:32:19.620 When he calls my number, I'm going to a great place.
00:32:22.080 We're fine.
00:32:22.860 However, I've got family.
00:32:23.920 I've got friends.
00:32:24.760 I got people I love.
00:32:25.880 Those are the people that you worry about.
00:32:27.360 And I'm sure that's true for a lot of people, right?
00:32:29.780 And we shouldn't have to live this way.
00:32:31.300 This is not the way that ultimately, you know, any, you know, public figures are always
00:32:35.140 taking some level of risk, right?
00:32:36.900 We've already, you know, some guy shot Ronald Reagan on behalf of Jodie Foster, right? 0.87
00:32:41.840 It's not like the first time we've ever seen a political crazy.
00:32:43.880 But obviously, we're getting to a, like, widespread targeted terrorist left that is coming to
00:32:50.840 dominate.
00:32:51.820 And really, you know, the answer is the Trump administration needs to take action.
00:32:55.400 And until then, the commentary is going to have to make its own personal decisions on
00:33:00.020 the level of danger that they're comfortable with.
00:33:02.520 I think a lot of people honestly are brave enough to stay in the game, but some people are
00:33:07.140 going to get pushed up.
00:33:07.880 This is going to be one of those sifting moments.
00:33:10.460 Uh, and, uh, when we get on the other side, that probably means that ultimately we will
00:33:14.600 be stronger, but we might've lost some people who just say, you know what?
00:33:18.080 At the end of the day, I love my family and stuff more than I care about being in the limelight
00:33:23.360 or trying to fight this battle.
00:33:24.560 And so I'm going to step away.
00:33:26.040 Absolutely.
00:33:26.800 No, it's so true.
00:33:27.500 And it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's getting hot.
00:33:30.500 It's getting, it's getting scary.
00:33:31.440 So, uh, with that or on, thank you very much for hopping on.
00:33:34.200 Where can people find you to get some more?
00:33:36.640 Sure.
00:33:37.040 I'll be on blaze TV.
00:33:38.520 And of course my show is also on YouTube and rumble and odyssey, and I'm posting on
00:33:43.000 places like gab and Twitter under Warren McIntyre.
00:33:45.980 I love it.
00:33:46.640 Thank you so much.
00:33:47.180 We'll catch you next time.
00:33:48.600 Thanks again, man.
00:33:50.180 All righty guys.
00:33:50.940 Well, that was the great or on McIntyre.
00:33:52.980 Uh, a lot of people don't realize this.
00:33:54.500 Uh, I came, you know, still new to the game and Oron was one of those guys that I listened
00:33:58.460 to like every day.
00:33:59.280 So it's always so surreal to be able to chat with these guys and pick their brains on these
00:34:02.920 issues.
00:34:03.160 Cause I don't know.
00:34:03.900 I feel like I'm an audience member here with Oron.
00:34:05.600 Like I'm getting to ask him some questions.
00:34:07.460 I'm like a super chatter IRL.
00:34:09.440 Um, so super fun to be able to chat with them.
00:34:12.580 Uh, the, the circumstances of the conversation, not so fun.
00:34:15.300 It's getting very scary out there, but with that, we will be back tonight with Tim cast
00:34:20.620 IRL at 8 PM.
00:34:21.700 You know, it go check it out.
00:34:23.480 We'll, uh, have a great time tonight.
00:34:25.040 It's going to be a good, good show.
00:34:26.280 You can follow me on X and Instagram at real tape Brown.
00:34:28.880 I'll be back tomorrow with the morning show and, uh, we will see you all there.
00:34:32.700 Thank you very much for watching.
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