The Culture War - Tim Pool - Tim Pool VS Adam Conover DEBATE ｜ The Culture War Podcast

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00:00:54.940 That's a sharp-looking car. Is that the new Kia K4?

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00:01:24.320 How's it going, everybody? Welcome to The Culture War.

00:01:28.720 We got a special episode today.

00:01:30.520 It's not necessarily about a core issue.

00:01:33.600 We're being joined by Adam Conover.

00:01:35.780 Hey, thanks for having me. Nice to be here.

00:01:37.560 Absolutely. Thanks for coming, man.

00:01:38.500 Who are you? What do you do?

00:01:39.520 I'm a comedian.

00:01:41.140 I've made a couple television shows in the past.

00:01:43.380 Did a true TV show. Did a Netflix show.

00:01:45.660 I'm a stand-up comic.

00:01:47.300 I'm going to be in Charleston, South Carolina this weekend.

00:01:50.420 And you guys invited me. I thought I'd swing by.

00:01:52.180 Yeah. I really appreciate you coming on.

00:01:54.240 Yeah.

00:01:54.980 What year was that show, Adam Ruins Everything?

00:01:58.080 It first came out in 2015, I think, and ran until 2019.

00:02:03.680 We did like four or five cycles of it.

00:02:06.060 My mom loved your show.

00:02:07.220 Oh.

00:02:07.500 And I think she watched regularly.

00:02:10.160 I watched a handful, to be honest.

00:02:12.040 That's fine.

00:02:12.820 But you did have one really good one on gun control.

00:02:15.180 I thought it was good because you pointed out Reagan was the start of gun control. 0.63

00:02:19.340 And you had probably one of the most, I think, honest portrayals when you had a black panther

00:02:25.780 and like a white rural work, like fat guy, both being like, yes, guns. 0.82

00:02:31.940 Yeah. 0.79

00:02:32.200 Because we often see this depiction where it's like racists are mad, like gun – like

00:02:37.300 they lump all two-way people in with like all white supremacists or whatever.

00:02:42.340 Yeah. 0.98

00:02:42.580 And they try and act like conservatives are mad that black people have guns.

00:02:45.480 And it's like the two-way guys are not racist. 0.65

00:02:48.400 It's a totally different ideology.

00:02:49.840 Oh, yeah.

00:02:50.120 We made the point in that video, though, that, you know, those people tend not to defend like

00:02:55.340 black people who are – you know, the Philandos-Castille case, right, was one of the ones 0.81

00:02:58.920 that we talked about.

00:02:59.560 But that's, you know, comes up a lot.

00:03:02.340 That actually was a really interesting case, too, because there were a lot of people on

00:03:04.980 the right.

00:03:05.800 For people who don't know, this is – the guy got pulled over.

00:03:08.840 I think he was smoking weed.

00:03:10.360 He had a gun.

00:03:11.260 He didn't draw it or anything, but the cop just shot and killed him.

00:03:12.960 He – I believe what happened – this was so many years ago, and I've done so many

00:03:17.720 things that like my memory for stuff like this isn't as good as it used to be.

00:03:20.240 But I believe he said, like, officer, I have a firearm and, you know, which is what

00:03:26.480 you're supposed to do.

00:03:27.480 And the officer shot him, I think, at that point.

00:03:29.560 Yeah, like, he didn't draw it or anything.

00:03:31.460 Yeah.

00:03:31.680 It was interesting to see the rift between –

00:03:33.060 He, like, had it stored in the car properly.

00:03:35.180 Yeah.

00:03:35.280 Yeah.

00:03:35.960 And then a lot of conservatives were like, yeah, well, you shouldn't have been smoking

00:03:38.540 weed.

00:03:38.960 And I'm like, whoa, whoa.

00:03:40.220 Like, yes, but you don't die because you're armed.

00:03:42.840 You have a right to keep and bear arms.

00:03:44.200 So that was an interesting contrast.

00:03:45.980 But anyway, that was – you got a lot of praise from that from the pro-2A people because

00:03:49.780 they were like, hey, this guy's – he's being honest.

00:03:51.520 It's like, there are pro-2A people. 0.97

00:03:54.340 They're not all going to be racist, white supremacists or whatever.

00:03:57.680 But anyway, I digress.

00:04:00.080 I'm curious – I guess I can ask you something simple first.

00:04:02.900 Like, what are you currently working on?

00:04:04.000 Currently, everything I'm doing is, like, podcast YouTube, right?

00:04:08.800 The, like, mainstream entertainment industry kind of stopped making the kind of comedy

00:04:13.180 I make.

00:04:14.640 And so I've – you know, YouTube has, like, replaced television for so many people.

00:04:19.240 It's the number one streaming app on televisions.

00:04:20.920 Their top format is television sets. 0.99

00:04:23.800 And so that's where I've moved all my shit. 0.87

00:04:26.880 And so, yeah, I do kind of similar stuff to what I used to do on cable, doing it on YouTube 0.94

00:04:31.900 on a weekly basis.

00:04:32.580 And I'm a touring comic.

00:04:34.000 Right on.

00:04:34.860 Well, let's just – let's jump into the current state of affairs.

00:04:37.740 We've got a second Trump administration, non-consecutive.

00:04:42.040 What's your take on what is currently happening politically and culturally? 0.99

00:04:47.400 Damn. 0.98

00:04:48.760 Yeah, I mean, you're going to disagree. 1.00

00:04:51.140 Your audience is going to disagree.

00:04:52.920 It's –

00:04:54.000 That's the point, right?

00:04:55.060 It's hard.

00:04:55.700 Yeah.

00:04:57.000 Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to – you know, Tim Pool destroys woke comedian.

00:05:01.080 It's fine.

00:05:01.640 You can start the clip at this point if you're doing your response videos, you know.

00:05:07.660 Yeah, I mean, it looks like a pretty clear fascist authoritarian takeover of the U.S. government,

00:05:14.500 you know.

00:05:14.820 It's – we've got people being thrown in unmarked vans.

00:05:19.040 We've got, like, the destruction of the civil service, which is, like, a pretty standard authoritarian tactic, like, early on in an administration of that type.

00:05:25.760 And, yeah, it's, like, sort of remains to be seen how far they'll get and if they'll actually be able to transform America in the ways that they're trying to.

00:05:35.980 But, yeah, it's pretty – my side of America, things are – people are a little – people are a little on edge.

00:05:41.560 It's a little frightening to folks.

00:05:43.080 Yeah.

00:05:43.300 Yeah, my take on that would be largely because corporate press is lying to them, largely.

00:05:50.820 What corporate press?

00:05:51.780 There's no corporate press left hardly.

00:05:54.200 Well, I would say their viewership is rapidly diminished.

00:05:56.680 Yeah.

00:05:56.920 But still, when you look at – there was a RealClearPolitics aggregate polling found that – they didn't do it necessarily by demographic.

00:06:05.460 They did it by decade age bracket.

00:06:07.980 So it was, like, 20 to 29 or whatever.

00:06:11.440 Every age group except for 70-plus was pro-Trump, was a few points above –

00:06:19.200 RealClearPolitics did an average, and they said that every age group in America –

00:06:24.880 Except for 70-plus.

00:06:25.360 Every age group except for 70-plus is pro-Trump.

00:06:30.380 Yeah.

00:06:30.760 Let me see if I can try and find it.

00:06:32.600 And this is contrasting to, like, all the approval rating stats I've seen have him at, like, what, like, 40, 47 percent and dropping or something like that?

00:06:41.560 It's largely based on the older crowd.

00:06:45.440 Just – that seems like the opposite of every stat I've seen in the past.

00:06:51.660 But I don't, like, follow this really closely.

00:06:53.540 Yeah.

00:06:53.820 I don't know how to find this image because it was a few weeks ago, but let me see if I can try and pull it up and talk at the same time, which I probably can't.

00:07:00.320 But I don't actually – do you want to see if you can try and find it while we talk?

00:07:05.200 Otherwise, I'm going to be sitting here typing –

00:07:06.760 No problem.

00:07:07.180 – out of my mind.

00:07:07.860 Yeah, so what I would say is, like, the obvious story – we debated this last week live – is the Abrego Garcia story.

00:07:15.680 Mm-hmm.

00:07:16.060 Yeah.

00:07:16.300 And so the take that I've typically seen from liberals is – actually, I'll use a specific example.

00:07:24.580 The David Pakman subreddit.

00:07:26.660 Pakman, of course, has millions of followers.

00:07:28.880 He gets 100 million views per month.

00:07:30.560 And his audience on Reddit was saying, this is just a family man who is trying to escape harsh conditions in Central America who has been effectively disappeared by the Trump administration.

00:07:43.360 Mm-hmm.

00:07:43.680 Which is a gross mischaracterization of what happened.

00:07:46.600 If we were to say that a judge granted Abrego Garcia withholding of deportation due to Barrios 18 in Guatemala and threats against his life in El Salvador, then the question of due process is he needed to get a hearing as pertaining to that withholding of deportation.

00:08:00.800 But he did already have two hearings in which he was determined to be an MS-13 gang member.

00:08:06.680 He was pulled over and law enforcement believed to be human trafficking.

00:08:11.340 He has two filings from his wife for beating her.

00:08:13.920 She was filing orders of protection.

00:08:15.860 And so it's fine if, in my view, the liberals – the liberal side of things or the podcasters like Pakman and Brian Tyler Cohen and others are going to say, hey, he was supposed to get a hearing.

00:08:27.160 Agreed.

00:08:28.400 But it is a gross mischaracterization.

00:08:30.080 So when you mention that people on the left are on edge, I'm like, yeah, well, they think that a guy who lives in Maryland who was working like a regular union job or whatever just disappeared one day as opposed to a guy who had gone through several hearings,

00:08:43.240 was arrested with MS-13, had symbols on his hand that law enforcement believe were MS-13 gang tattoos.

00:08:50.360 And so the real question is what was the error in that deportation?

00:08:54.880 On the right, it's legally called harmless error in that he didn't get a hearing as to the withholding of deportation.

00:09:01.760 However, he wouldn't have got it approved anyway.

00:09:06.040 So the answer now is a formality.

00:09:08.140 It's paperwork.

00:09:09.100 It's a Zoom call.

00:09:10.080 And then it's done.

00:09:11.620 But people on the left, the liberal side of things, they think that this is a working-class family guy who's vanished one night, an American citizen.

00:09:18.460 And I think it was actually Hassan—

00:09:20.400 People don't think he's an American citizen.

00:09:22.200 I mean, they're up to speed on like—

00:09:24.060 Hassan Piker thought he was from Maryland.

00:09:26.980 Legit.

00:09:27.440 And so we're talking—and I know it's not you, but this is like the seventh biggest live streamer in the country.

00:09:34.660 Almost every single day, Hassan gets 50K.

00:09:38.260 And he actually said on his stream in response to the comments I made at the White House, what do you mean he's not from Maryland?

00:09:42.980 Are you saying he's from D.C.?

00:09:43.760 He's from Maryland.

00:09:45.080 No, he's from El Salvador.

00:09:46.160 He only lived in Maryland for a few years.

00:09:48.340 Okay.

00:09:48.820 I mean, that guy talks for, you know, eight hours a day.

00:09:51.540 Like, you can parse, you know, any particular—

00:09:53.340 For sure, for sure.

00:09:54.060 —statement.

00:09:54.580 But, like, I mean, to me, everything that you said, first of all, half of it sounds unrelated.

00:10:01.940 Like, you know, he's had past interactions with law enforcement, like domestic violence and stuff like that.

00:10:06.900 To me, that's like neither here nor there.

00:10:08.560 It's like character stuff. 0.96

00:10:10.460 I don't really give a shit about, like, the character of the guy. 0.93

00:10:14.280 And I didn't think that was a big part of the story. 0.96

00:10:16.400 It was like the fact that he did not, you know, receive due process before being, you know, rendered to a prison—like this bizarre prison in El Salvador.

00:10:26.460 Like, that's the strange part.

00:10:28.600 That's El Salvador's government with an El Salvadoran citizen.

00:10:30.980 That's not our purview.

00:10:33.060 I mean, he's, like, sent directly to this, like, gigantic, you know, complex.

00:10:38.840 It's in a, like, highly public way, in a way where, like, the administration, you know, is making a show of their refusal to, you know, follow the law.

00:10:52.220 It's bizarre to witness.

00:10:55.540 And, like, you know, the sort of narrow legalistic, oh, he had a hearing, he was da-da-da-da-da-da-da.

00:11:00.700 It's irrelevant to, like, the purposeful spectacle of the Trump administration, you know, sending this guy who they admit they should not have done this. 0.95

00:11:11.140 But they're like, we don't give a shit, we're doing it just because we hate guys like this and we want, like, even people who are in the country legally to, you know, be afraid and to, what, self-deport? 0.97

00:11:22.380 Like, it seems like the only justification is purposeful cruelty for doing this. 0.98

00:11:28.840 I don't think they call on any legal immigrants to self-deport.

00:11:32.020 They're calling on illegal immigrants to self-deport, offering up $1,000 if they do.

00:11:35.380 The guy had a legal status to be in the country legally.

00:11:37.120 He did not, that's not true.

00:11:38.860 Withholding of deportation isn't legal status.

00:11:41.140 Withholding of deportation means he was ordered to leave the country, but the U.S. was barred from sending him to El Salvador, specifically because Barrios 18 in Guatemala had threatened his family.

00:11:53.040 So the question as to due process was, this is why I think the actual legal standard is called harmless error.

00:12:00.340 If he actually got a, either USCIS interview as to the withholding of deportation, it would have been voided because El Salvador no longer has the crime rate that it did 12 years ago or 10 years ago.

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00:13:13.020 The issue is, are you still at threat from Barrios 18?

00:13:16.980 The answer is no.

00:13:18.080 And so then your withholding of deportation is void.

00:13:20.760 We can deport you.

00:13:21.960 The issue is that for deportation of someone like Rego Garcia, he has a home country, El Salvador.

00:13:27.420 He has a withholding to that, to El Salvador, a withholding of deportation because of a gang in another country neighboring El Salvador.

00:13:35.380 We can't deport him to Venezuela.

00:13:37.640 We can't deport him to Mexico.

00:13:39.260 That requires treaties.

00:13:40.920 The U.S. doesn't have those, though we do have a treaty with El Salvador as it pertains to Trinidad-Aragua.

00:13:46.380 So what ends up happening is he's got he's got he had two orders of deportation.

00:13:52.360 He conceded in 2019 through his lawyer that, yes, he was here illegally.

00:13:55.920 Uh, yes, he had been found to be here to be removable under the law.

00:14:01.100 And he requested three.

00:14:04.320 There there's withholding of deportation.

00:14:06.880 There was asylum.

00:14:07.860 And then there was I forgot the third one is it's it's it's you can't deport him because of a fear of torture.

00:14:14.120 It's a it's like a U.N. thing.

00:14:15.620 And they denied two of them.

00:14:17.000 Asylum was denied because he he didn't apply for it in a timely manner.

00:14:21.880 Deportation to El Salvador was granted because of Barrios 18 in Guatemala.

00:14:25.920 And then the last one was denied because there's no torture provision.

00:14:30.240 The remedy right now would be a Zoom hearing where he gets on a computer, talks to a these are executive judges, by the way.

00:14:38.260 And they would just say withholding denied.

00:14:40.340 Welcome to El Salvador.

00:14:41.320 You're an El Salvador citizen.

00:14:42.100 I think the real issue is, yes, it was an administrative error.

00:14:46.600 Shouldn't have happened.

00:14:47.960 But the remedy is a 10 minute Zoom call.

00:14:52.460 If we did that, nothing would change.

00:14:54.280 If he was brought back to the United States, he'd immediately be turned around and sent back because his withholding would be voided.

00:14:58.660 So how is this something that you're certain?

00:15:02.980 I mean, the man was did a judge not order the Trump administration not to remove the guy?

00:15:10.080 Like I think it was it was under the first Trump administration.

00:15:14.400 He was granted the withholding.

00:15:16.900 He wasn't supposed to be removed.

00:15:18.300 He got caught up in the sweep, essentially.

00:15:20.820 But again, if the due process due to this man would be a hearing under withholding of deportation.

00:15:27.260 So is he receiving this due process?

00:15:29.680 I agree they should do it.

00:15:30.460 I actually asked the secretary, why not just send the send the USCIS guy down?

00:15:34.640 Why don't you think they're doing it?

00:15:36.720 I think I think there's there's there's two potentialities.

00:15:40.960 Trump actually is probably more than two, but Trump doesn't want to look weak.

00:15:44.520 He doesn't want to look like he's going to be pushed around by the judiciary.

00:15:47.680 But I do agree with you.

00:15:49.040 Otherwise known as following the law.

00:15:51.040 No, not necessarily.

00:15:52.060 I mean, the universe in this case.

00:15:54.440 No, actually, universal injunctions are unconstitutional.

00:15:58.000 So there's a concern that precedent will be set by Trump adhering to universal injunctions pertaining to the Alien Enemies Act or mass deportation.

00:16:05.160 And he's not going to allow that to happen.

00:16:06.840 So he doesn't want to set a precedent in the future that you should on universal injunctions don't exist anywhere in the Constitution.

00:16:13.840 And we've seen some 40 percent of all injunctions ever issued in this way against Trump and his administration.

00:16:19.300 He's got more.

00:16:21.040 I believe he has more universal injunctions in the forced the first four months than all other presidents ever got individually.

00:16:28.800 And that is.

00:16:30.480 I mean, that is unconstitutional.

00:16:32.460 These judges are issuing these mandates, which plainly violate their constitutional authority.

00:16:38.400 So the check on that is plainly Trump says, no, I'm not going to I'm not going to adhere to something you can't do.

00:16:43.740 Right.

00:16:44.200 So this is, you know, again, the this is authoritarianism, right?

00:16:49.500 It's like we're authoritarian.

00:16:51.080 There's a I agree.

00:16:51.860 The judges are acting authoritarian.

00:16:53.000 Yeah, I mean, it's like a he's he, you know, as an executive is trying to destroy the power of the other branches of government by ignoring their authority by, you know, mounting aggressive, aggressive, legalistic defenses like the ones that you're making in order to, like, you know, expand the power of the presidency and be able to act with impunity.

00:17:13.320 Judges is part of why he's sending them. 0.99

00:17:15.960 Sure.

00:17:16.500 I mean, look, I'm not a I'm not a legal scholar.

00:17:18.660 Generally, I would have said that, you know, presidents, I think, tend to follow judicial orders more than Trump tends to.

00:17:26.080 Right.

00:17:26.320 Let me ask you a question. 0.98

00:17:27.380 If I if a judge ordered you to shoot a man in the head, would that be illegal?

00:17:32.940 I'm using an extreme example on purpose. 0.90

00:17:35.480 It's obviously no.

00:17:36.800 A judge can't order you to kill somebody. 0.89

00:17:39.460 That's crazy. 0.90

00:17:40.080 But we're not talking about a judge ordering Trump to kill anybody.

00:17:42.720 We're talking about judges in I think we're up to like 87 instances issuing universal mandates across the entire nation based on lawsuits of single individuals.

00:17:54.060 So what, for example, a recent one was the transgender military ban.

00:17:58.860 Donald Trump issued an executive order saying, you know, DSM five mental disorder.

00:18:05.960 You are now going to be inadmissible from the armed forces and will and will be severed unless you are not showing symptoms.

00:18:12.680 A judge ruled.

00:18:15.320 From this point forward, the military under Trump must admit all individuals, regardless of any mental disorder.

00:18:25.260 The judges only have the authority over the people in their courtroom unless it's a class action lawsuit.

00:18:30.260 Universal injunctions are not constitutional.

00:18:32.720 Like, so like Brown versus Board of Ed, like, so you went when a person brings a lawsuit to the government country, right?

00:18:39.940 So so so a person brings a lawsuit to the government about to a judge or the Supreme Court about a law being unconstitutional.

00:18:48.660 And like the ruling should only affect that case.

00:18:50.740 It shouldn't affect law.

00:18:51.780 It literally affects the law.

00:18:53.580 It affects the law.

00:18:54.720 Uh huh.

00:18:55.420 So in the issue of lower courts and this universal injunction, lower courts have the authority over the singular individuals in their courtroom unless it's a class action.

00:19:07.600 So they could have made it a class action.

00:19:09.880 They could have sent out the letters.

00:19:11.300 They could have gotten the signatures and said, we need X amount of transgender military service men and women because we want this to apply to all.

00:19:17.160 Instead, what happened was and I'll argue this.

00:19:20.520 This is this is where it encroaches into the authoritarian.

00:19:24.180 The judge said all means all.

00:19:26.260 That's a quote.

00:19:27.640 This created a huge uproar because it meant that the military now had to enlist schizophrenics. 0.94

00:19:33.920 That if if someone showed up suffering from manic depressive disorder and they were paraplegic, they were now under this universal injunction entitled to join the military.

00:19:42.360 But I mean, a schizophrenic bipolar who's suffering delusions is not going to be able to complete basic training.

00:19:49.480 Now, perhaps there'd be an argument, as you're saying it, if the judge only said this day will apply just to transgender military men and women.

00:19:57.240 But they didn't.

00:19:58.420 The judge was a woman. 1.00

00:19:59.080 She said it applies to everybody.

00:20:00.660 So Trump said, OK, I'm not even going to defy that.

00:20:04.100 We're going to appeal it.

00:20:05.460 He didn't even ignore the order.

00:20:07.300 They went to SCOTUS and SCOTUS.

00:20:08.500 You think Trump even knows any of this was happening?

00:20:10.880 Probably not.

00:20:11.340 Well, I mean, I don't think he's like he probably knew what's happening, but I don't think he had a hand in the day to day operations of it.

00:20:18.560 Uh huh.

00:20:19.040 I mean, for any boss.

00:20:20.840 Yeah.

00:20:21.420 It's just it's just funny that we go, oh, Trump said this.

00:20:23.440 Trump said that.

00:20:23.900 Trump. 0.95

00:20:24.420 I mean, he certainly hates trans people, but I don't think he's like and doesn't want them in the military. 0.96

00:20:29.120 But I don't think he's like following the day to day of the case.

00:20:31.620 I agree.

00:20:32.240 I agree.

00:20:32.660 He's like, you know, doing loopty loops out on the golf course.

00:20:35.760 But like the legalistic like points that you're making to me, it's all a fig leaf for like the the larger thing that he's doing, which is, you know, bending the law in these in these bizarre ways.

00:20:52.300 What what is the point of like sending people to El Salvador?

00:20:58.440 Right.

00:20:58.800 To like this prison in El Salvador.

00:21:00.660 Part of the reason to send him there, to send Garcia there, Abrego Garcia there as quick as quickly as possible, is it just shields him from the rest of the legal system.

00:21:12.520 Right.

00:21:12.720 It makes it harder to get him back.

00:21:14.980 Right.

00:21:15.120 If you send it.

00:21:16.200 He's El Salvadoran.

00:21:17.800 Yeah.

00:21:18.200 But my point is like he's he's entitled to due process as someone who is in America.

00:21:22.900 Right.

00:21:24.180 If you shove people into this like hole in another country as quickly as possible, gives you plausible deniability. 0.98

00:21:31.760 I don't really give a shit about, you know, the various, you know, again, legalistic like little nuances of the ruling. 0.95

00:21:39.980 The important part to me is, you know, Trump saying being under an order to bring the guy back and say, I can't because the president of El Salvador, my best friend, says he won't return him. 0.97

00:21:51.940 Right.

00:21:52.740 How would he get him to do it?

00:21:55.320 Saying El Salvador is basically a client state of the Trump administration at this point.

00:21:59.740 He'll do whatever he wants. 1.00

00:22:01.240 Like, Bukele will suck his dick. 1.00

00:22:02.720 Like, it doesn't matter. 1.00

00:22:03.560 Will Bukele want something in return?

00:22:05.020 Yeah, sure.

00:22:06.140 Give him give him like their friends.

00:22:09.560 Yeah.

00:22:10.440 So it's a fig leaf.

00:22:11.660 Right.

00:22:11.860 It's like it's in order to the reason to do it is to is to just make it more difficult to do the right thing.

00:22:19.520 I suppose the issue is when Bukele Garcia got deported, the administration right out was like, this is an administrative error.

00:22:27.580 We it was an oversight on the withholding of deportation.

00:22:30.020 The Supreme Court ultimately ruled that Trump must facilitate his return.

00:22:33.760 And now the political debate is what does facilitate mean?

00:22:38.080 The Supreme Court hasn't clarified, which they definitely need to do when you have two factions arguing.

00:22:42.720 The left argues it means literally bring him back.

00:22:44.380 And the right says, no, it means provide him the means to return should he be able.

00:22:49.500 And then I say, OK, the Supreme Court can literally just come out right now and issue like a writ and be like, no, we mean go and negotiate.

00:22:56.780 However, the other challenge is Supreme Court also stated that no one can direct the executive branch to conduct foreign policy.

00:23:01.760 So this would mean that Donald Trump could get him back in the sense that he could negotiate simple terms very easily.

00:23:08.560 He could literally say to Bukele, listen, you're going to release the guy from prison.

00:23:13.660 You're going to do it.

00:23:14.560 If you want to keep working with us, if you want our money, you're going to do it.

00:23:17.080 And then we're going to bring him back.

00:23:18.600 Bukele would begrudgingly say yes, probably.

00:23:20.720 There is the concern that Bukele would say, I win my presidency on going after MS-13.

00:23:27.420 You've got to give a concession publicly in some way so that it looks like.

00:23:31.480 But you're not going to look if you shrug or not.

00:23:33.840 The issue is, are we going to direct the executive branch through the judiciary to conduct foreign policy?

00:23:38.680 And you can't do that.

00:23:39.800 So I agree.

00:23:41.160 Trump, this here's what just happened right now.

00:23:43.340 The executive courts, this is what they have, their immigration courts, should conduct a Zoom meeting with Abrego Garcia, and we're done.

00:23:50.900 It's over.

00:23:51.760 That's his due process.

00:23:53.200 He's an El Salvadoran citizen in El Salvador who was imprisoned by El Salvador.

00:23:57.700 My point is this, the reason there's any number of things that they could do, there's some things that both of us agree that they should do.

00:24:08.160 There's more things that I think they should do than you do.

00:24:10.840 But, et cetera, the point is they are, like, loudly and proudly not doing any of that, deporting a guy they know shouldn't be deported.

00:24:21.340 But that's, hold on, that's not true in any of the media.

00:24:24.600 The media, the full reporting that we get across the board from the New York Times to CNN to even Fox News was he was accidentally deported without his hearing on withholding.

00:24:34.920 So it wasn't an intentional, we're going to get this guy and get him out. 0.99

00:24:37.740 It was a, ah, crap. 0.98

00:24:38.620 So when Trump is, like, holding up photos of his tattoos with, like, MS-13 on it and, like, they're giving press conferences about he beat us, what they're doing, character, you know, assassination on the guy, like, all of that is accidental. 0.99

00:24:53.980 No, that's a political attack against Democrats.

00:24:56.120 Yeah, right.

00:24:56.860 And so let me just get to the end of my point, okay, is that, you know, they turn it into a political attack because they are acting lawlessly.

00:25:06.840 They're proud to be acting lawlessly.

00:25:09.020 The point is to demonstrate on this issue we will act lawlessly.

00:25:13.320 You're not safe if you are, you know, even under the protection of a court order in this country and you should be frightened and you should leave.

00:25:20.300 It's just, like, it's an authoritarian attack against immigrants directly and it's designed, it's a leveraging of the state to try to frighten immigrants and other groups, not only illegal immigrants.

00:25:35.200 Okay, so let's talk about the students who have been detained and deported, right?

00:25:39.600 These are people who are under student visas, right?

00:25:42.040 They appear at a protest or two and, you know, they're thrown into vans, they're held in, you know, these bizarre facilities, you know, there's multiple cases.

00:25:53.280 If you want to say that they're thrown in vans and held in vans.

00:25:54.840 So the point of this is to frighten, A, people at universities, B, pro-Palestinian protesters, and that means any protester on the left, of course, and C, immigrants of all types, including those who are here on legal immigrant visas.

00:26:11.740 Like, it's, they, they, the details of the individual cases don't matter. 0.85

00:26:16.360 They like creating a firestorm around someone who is here legally, creating a huge controversy about them, and then saying, we don't give a fuck, we're going to do whatever we want to these people because we want you to be afraid, right? 0.91

00:26:29.880 And that, to me, is, that's an expression of, like, pure authoritarianism. 0.97

00:26:35.500 It's a leveraging of state power to frighten, you know, undergroups in society that these people don't like.

00:26:41.940 It's, like, very straightforward.

00:26:43.400 We can mount as many legal defenses as we want of it and say, ah, blah, blah, blah, according to this statute or that statute, but the actual action is just designed to frighten people Trump doesn't like.

00:26:53.380 And it's, like, it's bizarre to see him do it.

00:26:55.260 Let's say yes, but none of that's illegal.

00:26:57.320 That's all actually codified law that they're allowed to do.

00:26:59.500 Okay, yeah, sure. 1.00

00:27:00.360 It's fucking bullshit. 1.00

00:27:01.340 It's, it's, it sucks. 1.00

00:27:02.560 It's bad. 1.00

00:27:03.320 It's bad for the country.

00:27:04.540 It's bad for the American spirit.

00:27:05.880 We can talk about a lot of bad things that every administration has done in the past that liberals and Democrats have covered up or, or participated in or didn't argue against.

00:27:13.260 Yeah, I guess.

00:27:14.780 Why?

00:27:15.180 I mean, we're talking about this one currently.

00:27:17.620 It feels disingenuous.

00:27:17.920 It feels disingenuous to talk about one thing that the Trump administration is doing because Democrats have done bad things, too?

00:27:21.900 Well, like, for instance, Donald Trump, through Marco Rubio specifically, revoking student visas, saying that these individuals represent a threat to our national security by adhering to our enemies.

00:27:33.120 And literally, that's what they're claiming.

00:27:34.760 I think it's ridiculous to claim that a student who's anti-Israel is working with Hamas. 0.97

00:27:39.820 That's silly. 0.88

00:27:40.720 But that's the argument he's making. 0.58

00:27:41.920 And under the INA, he has the authority to do it.

00:27:44.200 So you say, okay, well, when people come in here on student visas, they do sign agreements saying they won't do certain things.

00:27:49.080 They do it.

00:27:49.540 They get kicked out.

00:27:50.080 So this is okay with you because it's narrowly legal under Marco Rubio's, uh...

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00:29:04.640 You know, purview.

00:29:05.660 I would say it's, what's fine with me is the revocation of a visa for someone who's not a citizen who's here conditionally.

00:29:12.240 Like Mohammed Khalil who was on a conditional temporary visa.

00:29:15.220 So, so.

00:29:15.880 And if it gets revoked, I just say like, well, that's a conditional visa.

00:29:19.040 I don't, I don't go to Singapore and spit on the ground.

00:29:20.940 I'll get, I'll get caned.

00:29:22.180 So, so sorry.

00:29:22.880 You think what's, what's happened to those students is like, that's okay with you.

00:29:26.280 Not legally.

00:29:26.920 I'm talking about like, as an event that occurred in the country, you're like, oh, it's good that that happened.

00:29:31.480 It's okay with me.

00:29:32.440 You think it's moral.

00:29:33.340 You think it's right.

00:29:34.080 You think it's just, I'm not talking about legally.

00:29:36.540 I'm talking about like, you know, you, you say you, you don't.

00:29:40.600 60%.

00:29:41.160 60%.

00:29:41.200 Yeah.

00:29:41.400 Like, like nothing so easily black and white.

00:29:43.160 Rebeza Ozturk who, you know, she wrote an op-ed.

00:29:45.080 The only thing that anybody has even claimed that she's done is she wrote an extremely mild op-ed in her campus newspaper asking that the camp, you know, the college like sort of consider, you know, being supportive of the Palestinian cause in some vaguely defined way.

00:30:02.540 Yeah.

00:30:02.980 Her visa's revoked.

00:30:03.780 She, you know, you, we've all seen the video, right?

00:30:06.560 People come and like grab her and literally put her into a vehicle.

00:30:10.420 They're wearing masks.

00:30:11.560 Right.

00:30:12.000 Um, I mean, she's like, she's stopped in an alarming way on the street, right?

00:30:17.040 It's not like they filmed that and published that footage though.

00:30:18.980 That was, that was security camera footage.

00:30:20.640 Yeah.

00:30:20.940 People got a hole.

00:30:21.360 They, they, they did, they did it in a, there's, Hey, if you want to, uh, a student, like a young woman, you, there's other ways to arrest them to have, than have six people show up wearing masks, surround her in a pincer formation. 0.76

00:30:34.760 Like it's, it's designed to greet terror.

00:30:37.420 So like what, what, what, what, okay, great.

00:30:40.820 They didn't have, uh, and, and Biden's DOJ didn't need to show up at Roger Stone's house at four in the morning.

00:30:45.000 Sure.

00:30:45.440 And, and you know what, if you want to bring up another example, I'll say I condemn that as well.

00:30:49.100 Agreed.

00:30:49.380 If that, if that'll, if that'll keep us on this topic for a second.

00:30:52.240 We, we've had numerous instances across administrations that have acted similarly.

00:30:55.960 Okay.

00:30:56.500 So, so let, so let's say, let's say on Ramesa Osterk, why do you think that, like, what was the administration's purpose?

00:31:03.220 Not the legal argument for, for whether they can do it or not.

00:31:07.480 Yeah.

00:31:08.060 Okay.

00:31:08.340 So it's literal Israel and, and it, and it's, it's absurd that they'd argue, um, they're, you know, what they're doing when it comes to these students is they're saying they're a threat to our national security.

00:31:18.340 And that's, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's technically the truth, which is the best kind of the truth in that, yes, opposing, uh, U.S. alliance with Israel is bad. 0.69

00:31:32.540 Rallying in any meaningful way students to oppose Israel is bad for the U.S. foreign policy, but come on, you know what I mean?

00:31:39.440 Like a woman writing an op-ed that's not from here is, is nothing compared to the people from here writing the same op-eds. 0.90

00:31:45.740 What they're, what they're doing is they're basically saying, we're, we're, I agree with you in that they're saying, do not do these things or we will deport you.

00:31:56.140 We will find the thinnest of hairs of a reason to revoke your visa if you, if you come out against us.

00:32:01.780 I'm not, uh, completely in disagree.

00:32:04.560 So the reason why I say 60% when you asked me if I thought it was morally right, because obviously they don't need six guys swarming or in a pincer formation.

00:32:11.600 One guy could have knocked on her door and said, ma'am, your visa has been revoked.

00:32:15.080 I'm gonna need you to come with me.

00:32:15.960 We've got a black SUV you can sit in.

00:32:18.040 We're going to, you know, deal with this in a rather kind of boring way.

00:32:20.760 They didn't need to do that.

00:32:22.340 The, uh, the claim about a threat to our national security is, is grossly overestimated.

00:32:26.360 The claim that these people have adhered to Hamas is gross, grossly overestimated.

00:32:30.180 That being said, it is still completely legal in that an individual who comes here on a conditional visa, not violate the conditions of that visa.

00:32:37.800 Sure.

00:32:38.460 So it's, it's, it's legal.

00:32:40.220 No, no.

00:32:40.520 But dude, I'm asking you, like, do you think it's good for America that like,

00:32:45.960 college students who are here on a student visa because of political speech are being thrown into vans and having legal things be done?

00:32:55.320 Sure.

00:32:55.500 It's narrowly legal, but like torture, you know, there'd be, she's, she's being put in a prison and then, yeah.

00:33:01.920 And then she's being like forcibly deported.

00:33:03.940 Do you think that's good for America?

00:33:05.640 Like this is, okay.

00:33:06.660 So, uh, you know, marginally you think you, what do you, what do you think is good even marginally?

00:33:12.660 Like what's the, what's the minor small benefit to America?

00:33:15.360 Do not come to our country and rally against it and its interests.

00:33:19.420 And I apply this to any of these Canadians.

00:33:22.080 So what is the, what is the U.S. interest that her writing an op-ed?

00:33:27.300 The Suez Canal.

00:33:28.500 The Suez Canal?

00:33:30.260 Right.

00:33:30.860 The, the United States, uh, the reason why the U.S. is so, I, I love these Zijus people that are like, Israel controls the foreign policy. 1.00

00:33:38.460 Oh, shut up. 0.99

00:33:38.820 The, the, the U.S. interest in, is with Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia has a lot to do with like the Red Sea and the Suez Canal. 0.99

00:33:46.560 This is why Donald Trump is obsessed with Panama and Greenland.

00:33:48.720 He wants to control the global trade routes is what America's largely done.

00:33:51.180 This is, that, that's why I say it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a gross mischaracterization to claim that an op-ed is a threat to national security in that it is in the smallest of senses.

00:34:04.080 Students coming here and telling us to oppose our support with Israel puts it, it puts us at risk in terms of the sentiment of a younger generation as to whether or not we'll fund Israel and control the Suez Canal.

00:34:14.120 But, but, but I asked you if you thought it was good to deport her.

00:34:20.320 That's a marginally.

00:34:21.500 Right.

00:34:21.880 Because, because we have national interests in the Suez Canal and she wrote an op-ed.

00:34:26.140 No, that's the U.S.'s interest.

00:34:27.500 Okay, so, so what, so what, why do you think it was good to deport her?

00:34:30.920 Asserting U.S. sovereignty.

00:34:32.280 Do not come to our country and tell us what to do.

00:34:35.080 You've got a condition of your visa.

00:34:36.900 You're a guest in this country.

00:34:38.240 Okay.

00:34:38.520 Adhere to the agreements we have.

00:34:39.840 So you think that America should be a country where if you come here on a student visa, you're paying into our, you know, university system.

00:34:48.980 You're coming here for the reasons that, you know, completely legally we've invited you to come, right?

00:34:54.520 This is, this is why America is the country it is partially because people like this have come for, for decades.

00:35:01.120 If you express a political opinion that is like mildly at odds with a U.S. interest in another country of a canal that you should be deported.

00:35:13.900 You think America should be the kind of country where if somebody comes here, they write an op-ed that says literally anything about U.S. foreign policy, they should be deported.

00:35:23.980 So, so, so, so going forward, so, so going forward, literally everyone in the world should know if you are on foot on U.S. soil, you should not say anything in public about U.S. national priorities of any kind or else you could be deported.

00:35:39.320 You think it's good to have a country where that's the understanding?

00:35:41.740 All right, right, right.

00:35:42.360 So you're saying that.

00:35:43.200 This is what I'm trying to go down to.

00:35:44.580 The individuals who come to this country and apply for student visas have made that agreement already.

00:35:49.380 So while I would argue the deportation of Romesa is the thinnest of hairs, Mahmoud Khalil makes more sense. 1.00

00:35:58.600 I mean, he organized and helped lead protests that resulted in damage, occupations of buildings, several staff at the University of Columbia.

00:36:05.460 Let's say on Romesa because then we don't have to split hairs. 1.00

00:36:07.760 Right.

00:36:08.620 The issue is do not come to our country and tell us what to do.

00:36:13.800 That's it.

00:36:14.280 If you're here as a guest of this nation, you do not start rallying its people in opposition to its to the will of the voters and what the government is doing.

00:36:22.260 I mean, I really thought the point of America was, you know, freedom of speech was like a main value here that that I think that's why people come here.

00:36:33.220 It's why I like living here, because I always felt that, hey, I can express an opinion, especially about U.S. foreign policy and not have anything happen to me.

00:36:42.280 So that's a right that only citizens have.

00:36:46.560 And you think America should be a country where if you are not literally an American citizen, if you express any opinion about U.S. foreign policy, I mean, and we both agree the opinion she expressed was pretty mild.

00:37:00.600 It wasn't like a very inflammatory opinion.

00:37:02.100 Right.

00:37:02.540 It was like it's pretty mainstream political opinion to have.

00:37:04.940 If it conflicts with U.S. interests about the Suez Canal, I still don't really understand that point, but let's just say that it does.

00:37:10.580 It does.

00:37:10.880 That should be grounds for being forcibly removed from the country.

00:37:15.180 And like whether or not it's legally the case that we could do that, do you think it's good?

00:37:21.080 You think it's good to have a country where things like that happen?

00:37:24.320 You think a thriving country is one where people come into the country, they write an op-ed for the paper of the organization of which they're a member.

00:37:33.200 She's paying tuition to go to this school, and she's working for the student newspaper or whatever.

00:37:37.040 She's writing an op-ed.

00:37:38.040 She's probably not employed there, but she's writing for the student newspaper, and that is grounds to be deported.

00:37:44.340 Always was.

00:37:46.000 I mean, so my attitude—

00:37:46.760 You think that's the kind of country America is?

00:37:49.040 Always has been.

00:37:49.700 I guess that's where we fundamentally disagree.

00:37:54.400 But hold on.

00:37:55.460 The Immigration and Naturalization Act has multiple provisions that outright say this is the case.

00:38:02.560 And so that's why I say it's marginally good, because the issue is the U.S. asserting its sovereignty and saying, as a guest in this nation, we ask you not do certain things.

00:38:10.300 We ask you don't write mildly worded op-eds about U.S. foreign policy vis-a-vis a different country's war.

00:38:20.160 Let's not load it.

00:38:20.600 Let's not load it.

00:38:21.220 Let's say, do not speak out against our foreign policy.

00:38:26.220 Okay, great.

00:38:27.320 So America is a country where, in your view, if you are a foreign national, you are here on a student visa, you've been invited to the country, you should not— 0.72

00:38:38.000 Oh, okay.

00:38:40.800 I just want to—it's fair.

00:38:42.940 To me, Tim, it's a very baffling position.

00:38:46.520 Listen, you're arguing that I should call for illegal activities.

00:38:51.080 Let me put—

00:38:51.800 Let me phrase it this way.

00:38:53.200 Sure.

00:38:53.780 My attitude is Congress has passed a law.

00:38:57.780 It was passed in the House, in the Senate, signed by the president, and upheld by the courts.

00:39:01.140 This law states it is the purview of the Secretary of State to make the decisions as to whether or not these visas can stand for a variety of reasons.

00:39:08.440 I say it is marginally good.

00:39:10.460 Her opinion was mild, and I don't think it—I think it's silly to claim that she's adhering to Hamas because of an anti-Israel position.

00:39:18.480 My point is, for the government to assert its authority under the law as codified by Congress, the president, and the courts is marginally good.

00:39:27.460 Marginally.

00:39:27.960 Marginally is—I said 60 percent, maybe.

00:39:30.840 If I was president, I wouldn't do it.

00:39:32.740 But the idea that our country asserts its authority to say, you are guests in this country and we will make the determination whether you can stay or not, is a normal process.

00:39:40.580 And to argue that the government should not assert its authority when it feels it should, I think is silly.

00:39:46.440 I'm still looking for you.

00:39:47.240 There's a world we want to live in, and then there's—I'll put it this way.

00:39:49.460 I think people have a right to keep and bear nuclear weapons.

00:39:51.840 The Founding Fathers were clear in their intent on the right to bear arms, which included privateers with grape shot.

00:39:56.880 Now we've changed that and said only large corporations that the government approves of can have nuclear weapons.

00:40:02.260 Agreed.

00:40:02.680 Nobody should have nuclear weapons.

00:40:04.380 My point is that if you want to change the law, you have to do it through the constitutional process.

00:40:08.000 And that adhering to that is typically a good thing.

00:40:11.400 I don't know how we got on nuclear weapons.

00:40:15.040 It's a point about process of law and saying the government has a right to do something.

00:40:20.840 So if they choose to do it, okay, if you have a problem with it, then Congress should repeal those—specifically amend the INA to remove those provisions.

00:40:28.860 It is completely legal under the United States at the will of the American people that this happened.

00:40:32.980 You don't like that it's happening now, but this was the will of the voters and Congress, and it's been law for like 50 years.

00:40:39.660 Dude, when—just because something is legal doesn't mean it's right, right?

00:40:44.520 Correct.

00:40:44.840 We should change it then.

00:40:45.980 So my point is upholding the law is marginally good.

00:40:49.200 Sometimes the law is bad, and that's why it's not always good.

00:40:52.500 In this regard—

00:40:52.980 So you're saying simply the fact that Marco Rubio exercised his legal authority to do something was good.

00:41:03.240 It's like he had the legal authority to do it.

00:41:05.120 He could have enforced this law, as he saw it, on anybody.

00:41:08.420 He could have enforced it on a comedian, right, who's in town and goes on stage and says,

00:41:13.940 Hey, you know what?

00:41:14.560 I disagree with this or that.

00:41:15.500 Or, hey, I just did shows in—

00:41:16.660 You're not from Canada, are you?

00:41:16.960 I just did—

00:41:17.480 You're not from Canada. 0.86

00:41:18.320 No, but I just did shows in the U.K. and Amsterdam, and I made fun of U.K. politics.

00:41:22.680 I made fun of American politics.

00:41:23.700 You wouldn't dare make fun of Islam, though. 0.98

00:41:26.120 Go to the U.K. and mock Islam. 1.00

00:41:27.720 Do it. 0.98

00:41:28.960 Well, I don't have any jokes about Islam.

00:41:32.360 Why not? 1.00

00:41:32.780 They got Pakistani grooming games for raping little girls. 1.00

00:41:35.380 Why won't you go to the U.K.? 1.00

00:41:36.680 What?

00:41:37.940 Why won't you go to the U.K. and make jokes about Islam?

00:41:42.380 I don't think it's very funny.

00:41:44.200 I don't have any jokes about it.

00:41:45.360 I'm so confused.

00:41:46.660 Dude.

00:41:47.320 Okay, let me help unconfuse you.

00:41:49.360 Are there jokes that can be made about Islam, yes or no?

00:41:52.520 Wait, I don't want to go to this particular rap.

00:41:55.160 No, no, no, no, no.

00:41:55.840 You're terrified. 1.00

00:41:56.720 You're a hypocrite. 1.00

00:41:58.380 What? 1.00

00:41:59.080 Are there jokes you can make about Islam? 0.99

00:42:01.480 Mohammed banged a little girl, right? 1.00

00:42:04.380 I'm really baffled. 0.92

00:42:05.700 Oh, come on, come on. 1.00

00:42:07.860 I'm terrified of this subject.

00:42:09.680 I'm not.

00:42:10.060 No, I'm not.

00:42:10.860 In the U.K., you can be jailed for making jokes about Islam or even bring up the grooming

00:42:15.600 gangs.

00:42:16.580 There are people who go online and pointed out that a stabbing was carried out by a Muslim 0.92

00:42:21.000 and they got arrested for it.

00:42:22.900 You, I'll bet you $1,000, you will not go to the U.K. and make a joke about any of that

00:42:26.980 stuff because you will not go to a foreign country and in violation of their laws, speak

00:42:31.620 out against what they've said not to speak out against.

00:42:33.780 Do it.

00:42:34.100 I dare you.

00:42:36.540 $10,000 cash in your pocket if you go to the U.K. and make a joke about Mohammed having 0.80

00:42:42.460 a 12-year-old wife.

00:42:43.740 Man, we got here faster than I thought we would in this conversation where you're shouting

00:42:48.800 at me about something I don't understand.

00:42:50.060 I don't really understand how you would think it's incumbent upon me.

00:42:56.820 Do you think anybody watching this right now thinks you are confused by the notion that

00:43:00.860 in the U.K. you go to jail for mocking Islam?

00:43:02.360 I don't understand how we got onto you shouting at me about Islam specifically.

00:43:09.620 I'd like to return to the point I was trying to make.

00:43:12.380 Okay, it's because you said people should be allowed to come to this country and speak out

00:43:15.040 against it.

00:43:15.820 And you said you're a comedian and you're a comedian and you go to other countries, right?

00:43:19.280 And you said you go to the U.K.

00:43:20.440 And I said, okay, if you go to the U.K., speak out in violation of their laws and see

00:43:23.860 what happens.

00:43:24.620 And you said, I'm confused.

00:43:25.580 I don't understand.

00:43:26.340 What don't you understand?

00:43:27.540 Will you go to Turkey?

00:43:29.160 Will you go to Turkey and speak out against Islam? 0.99

00:43:32.380 I mean, if I have a joke to make sure, I don't have a joke about those particular topics.

00:43:39.840 You would?

00:43:41.120 I would?

00:43:42.340 You're saying if you had a joke about it?

00:43:44.200 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:43:44.960 Yeah, sure.

00:43:45.520 I would try to do the best I can.

00:43:47.140 I always try to poke the bear as much as I can.

00:43:49.120 It's part of the job of a comedian.

00:43:51.340 Nothing to poke the bear about as it pertains to one of the world's largest religions?

00:43:53.560 I mean, come on.

00:43:53.980 I mean, I haven't written a joke about that recently.

00:44:00.900 All right.

00:44:01.960 So look, hey, man, I'm a free speech guy, right?

00:44:06.000 I think that something that's nice about America is that we're a country that has that value.

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00:44:55.060 Movement that inspires.

00:44:56.220 And that we don't generally think that you should be tossed into a van and kicked out of the country for expressing an opinion.

00:45:05.980 I think that it is a change.

00:45:08.720 I think it's a change in America to most people around the world to feel that, oh, wait, if I go to America and I express a mild opinion about their foreign policy in my own student paper, or maybe on a stage or maybe somewhere else, I could be, without any warning to me, accosted by six people on the street, thrown into a van, and taken out of the country.

00:45:34.600 Oh, come on, accosted.

00:45:35.160 Let me finish.

00:45:36.060 I think that's a strain.

00:45:37.560 I think that's a new idea for a lot of people that America is that type of country.

00:45:42.300 I think that Donald Trump's purpose is to turn America into that type of country.

00:45:48.220 I think that that's bad.

00:45:49.860 I think it makes the country smaller.

00:45:51.260 I think it makes the country worse.

00:45:52.520 I think it's a violation of most of the values that I grew up with as an American.

00:45:56.300 And that's my view of what's happening in the country.

00:45:58.900 Now, if you want to say, hey, I don't like free speech for foreign nationals who are in the country who express mild opinions about other countries' foreign wars, then that's your prerogative. 1.00

00:46:09.680 It's a big difference between us that you don't like free speech in that way.

00:46:13.800 I mean, that's loaded language, right?

00:46:15.500 Yeah, all the language you're using is pretty loaded.

00:46:18.680 Well, you keep using adjectives to describe things to diminish one thing while exacerbate or exaggerate something else.

00:46:24.640 I do use the English language to express my thoughts and opinions, yeah.

00:46:27.380 Yeah, but it's strawmanning.

00:46:30.120 It's not a legitimate attack of the ideas, right?

00:46:33.420 So accosted on the street.

00:46:35.140 Come on. 0.94

00:46:35.600 She was arrested by a relatively large group of men compared to what a normal arrest would require, which I think they didn't need to do and was silly.

00:46:44.740 So we can say she was arrested by several men, unmarked, or plain clothes, which didn't need to happen.

00:46:51.580 But I don't need to say, like, she was accosted by men on the street and, like, it was about a mild opinion.

00:46:55.940 It's like, okay, listen, the facts of the case, like I said, I don't like the idea that people come to this country and then try and tell us how to live our lives.

00:47:05.440 But you're not for free speech.

00:47:06.380 I understand.

00:47:07.400 I think American citizens have self-determination and sovereignty, and I will say this even of the Canadians who keep coming here, and they keep getting involved in our politics.

00:47:15.240 I'm friends with some of them.

00:47:16.420 But I think it's fair to say that there is an issue with Canadians, largely conservatives, who come to this country and then start advocating for conservative as in a country they're not from.

00:47:25.300 To be fair, there are liberals Canadians who do it, too. 0.88

00:47:27.920 I find it to be silly.

00:47:28.860 That being said, Canada as a bordering nation with a largely overlapping culture is a morally different question but still applies in much the same way principally.

00:47:37.280 So I do take issue with foreigners coming to my country. 1.00

00:47:39.760 It's a nice white country, so we like it.

00:47:41.820 Canada is – they call it, what, the most multicultural country in the world, I think.

00:47:46.980 Mm-hmm.

00:47:47.400 They're big on immigration.

00:47:48.780 I think Toronto is considered to be the most multicultural city in the world.

00:47:52.640 Yeah.

00:47:52.820 So Canada actually is – you can call it a nice white country, that's technically the truth, but it also is very, very much in favor of immigration and diversity and all these things, largely what many of the conservatives are coming here speaking out against.

00:48:04.240 But without – you know –

00:48:05.860 So this is a country where if you're from another country and you're in America, don't say anything about our politics or you could be forcibly removed from the country.

00:48:14.400 You're comfortable with America being that kind of country.

00:48:16.700 Marginal.

00:48:17.020 That's something that's – that's a value of yours.

00:48:20.400 Those are your values.

00:48:21.460 See, you're doing it again.

00:48:22.520 No, no.

00:48:23.020 I didn't say it was a value of mine.

00:48:24.440 I'm trying to understand what you actually believe.

00:48:27.020 Yeah, I would say marginally it's a good –

00:48:29.000 Because I think that's a point of distinction. 0.77

00:48:31.220 Like it's useful in a conversation like this to be like, okay, I have my value, you have your value, and my value is like I really like it when people say what the fuck they think about any country's politics. 0.54

00:48:43.340 We can simplify it.

00:48:44.140 My value would just be to whatever mathematical degree American sovereignty supersedes the right of foreigners to speak about our policies. 0.94

00:48:51.260 But in this case, man.

00:48:53.940 That's just my value.

00:48:54.600 In this – so you think that literally any time America is exercising its sovereignty, that's like a good thing in that particular case?

00:49:06.220 Like because –

00:49:06.720 What does that mean?

00:49:07.340 Like –

00:49:09.340 You're a guest in our –

00:49:10.520 With all due respect, I think I've said it like six, seven times.

00:49:14.940 Uh-huh.

00:49:16.000 You're a guest in our country, adhere to the rules.

00:49:18.840 That's it.

00:49:20.540 That includes conservative Canadians, conservative Brits.

00:49:23.440 That's Carl Benjamin.

00:49:24.720 That's Paul Joseph Watson.

00:49:25.720 That's Viva Frye. 1.00

00:49:26.520 That's Seth Rogen.

00:49:28.720 And it's also –

00:49:29.200 Okay, so all those people should not speak about American national interests, like the Suez Canal.

00:49:40.200 We shouldn't say, oh, the Panama Canal or like, oh, Puerto Rico State or not.

00:49:45.460 They should not speak about American politics.

00:49:48.420 You can speak about what you want, but speech has consequences.

00:49:50.800 I mean –

00:49:52.920 Doesn't it?

00:49:53.180 Okay, so we can move on.

00:49:54.980 I'll say to me, that's a radically different America than I thought I grew up in. 0.95

00:49:59.920 And I think it's fucked up that we're becoming that kind of country. 0.85

00:50:02.360 I don't believe you think that's true. 0.95

00:50:04.060 You don't believe I think that's true?

00:50:06.440 Well, I mean –

00:50:07.100 I suppose I –

00:50:07.780 Like what I just said, I believe.

00:50:08.820 You're like, ah, you don't believe that.

00:50:10.060 Well, because if we go back several administrations, that's not been the case ever.

00:50:15.040 I mean, look at New York in the 2000s when the Bush administration rounded people up.

00:50:19.540 Well, I'm sorry.

00:50:20.100 It wasn't Bush.

00:50:20.800 During the Bush years.

00:50:21.760 And they put 200 people in like a bus – they locked them in a bus cage.

00:50:25.000 Yeah, that was bad.

00:50:26.420 That's the country you grew up in.

00:50:28.140 Yeah, and it was bad.

00:50:29.300 The idea that these things haven't been happening.

00:50:30.320 George Carlin got arrested for swearing.

00:50:32.260 We had blasphemy on the book.

00:50:33.760 Yeah, and it was bad.

00:50:36.020 And then we said, oh, we shouldn't do that anymore.

00:50:38.500 And it never changed.

00:50:39.960 The idea that you think you grew up in a nation where you could say whatever you wanted is an absurdity.

00:50:43.420 George Carlin went to jail for swearing.

00:50:44.940 And that was good, you think?

00:50:46.060 No, it wasn't.

00:50:46.700 And you think it's good that Ramesa Oztek is being forced to leave the country?

00:50:49.500 He's on a conditional visa as conditioned by the INA and the existing administration and the will of the voters.

00:50:55.580 Okay, but you're arguing –

00:50:56.500 No, no, no.

00:50:56.800 My argument is –

00:50:57.340 You're arguing that Oztek's deportation makes sense because George Carlin was arrested for swearing.

00:51:02.820 No.

00:51:03.640 You said I grew up in a country with free speech, and I said, no, you did not.

00:51:07.540 It's never been true.

00:51:08.640 And you're like, okay, that's – yes.

00:51:10.560 So under your view, America is a country that doesn't have free speech, never had free speech.

00:51:15.700 Yes.

00:51:16.020 And that's a good thing.

00:51:17.180 No.

00:51:17.540 Because we're exercising our sovereignty.

00:51:19.260 No.

00:51:19.820 Okay, but you think it's a good thing that Ramesa Oztek doesn't have free speech? 1.00

00:51:22.680 You understand the distinction between a non-citizen here on a conditional visa and an American citizen being arrested for swearing?

00:51:27.600 I understand that there's a distinction.

00:51:28.920 Very different circumstances.

00:51:29.360 I don't think that either of those people should be treated differently in that case.

00:51:32.360 Let me say this.

00:51:33.340 Yeah, I don't agree with you, man.

00:51:34.580 This country has never had free speech.

00:51:36.480 Okay, I think –

00:51:37.360 It's a fact.

00:51:38.420 When the Founding Fathers finalized the Constitution –

00:51:41.020 Do you think we should have free speech?

00:51:43.100 Yes, but there are limits on what free speech is based on the moral worldview of the individual argument.

00:51:48.600 For instance, do you believe someone should be allowed to direct someone to commit a violent crime?

00:51:53.740 Yes or no?

00:51:54.340 That's not the moral worldview of an argument.

00:51:56.480 That is the effect of the speech.

00:51:58.680 So you think that whether you have free speech should be – your words should be based on the moral worldview of the argument.

00:52:04.380 So to understand your view of what free speech means, I'm asking you.

00:52:07.720 If somebody says explicitly, you, right now, commit crime to that person, is that free speech?

00:52:16.880 Someone says, you, right now, commit crime to that person, and what, do they do it?

00:52:23.360 Yes.

00:52:25.280 I mean, I guess I'm not a free speech scholar, but that is – there would probably be legal consequences for that free speech?

00:52:33.780 It is illegal to do that.

00:52:35.680 Do you think someone should be able to yell fire in a crowded theater?

00:52:38.960 I mean, this is the canonical example of a speech that's not free speech.

00:52:43.340 It actually is.

00:52:44.580 That's Brandenburg v. Ohio.

00:52:45.660 It is, in fact, legal speech.

00:52:47.360 I don't think people should.

00:52:49.200 I understand the Supreme Court's ruling on that issue.

00:52:52.080 The challenge with free speech – let's go back to the beginning of this country.

00:52:56.060 Blasphemy laws were on the books after they even had the First Amendment.

00:52:58.660 So do you – so –

00:52:59.820 Like, they literally said you can't blaspheme.

00:53:01.680 We would say that's not free speech, but how did you have a First Amendment if you arrested people for blaspheming?

00:53:06.540 My point is – and this is an anarchist philosophy – the laws of the country are dictated by those with the power to enforce it.

00:53:16.220 That's why it used to be illegal to put a pie on your windowsill, but even though it's still illegal, nobody arrests you for it.

00:53:22.160 So free speech does change throughout the generations.

00:53:26.000 We never grew up in an era – we never had a time in our lives where you had true free speech the way the absolutists want it to be.

00:53:32.760 Yeah, I'm talking about the story that we tell about ourselves as a country, man.

00:53:37.120 I'm talking about the – 0.90

00:53:38.100 That's not true.

00:53:38.800 I'm talking about the values that we have collectively as people.

00:53:43.540 And, of course, those are always changing a little bit and people are trying to pull them in one direction or another.

00:53:49.140 Split in half.

00:53:49.460 I would have thought that – I don't know that much about you.

00:53:55.940 I know you're very involved with Occupy and stuff like that and protest movements, which I think is cool work.

00:53:59.920 I would have thought that, like, a student writing an op-ed about another country's war and her own institution's support for it vis-a-vis our country's foreign policy would be the kind of thing that you would think is a sort of free speech that we should value.

00:54:18.440 And, you know, that is the kind of free speech that I think – I personally think, like, a lot of the idea of America is built upon.

00:54:27.740 I think it's one of the good things about the country, that this is a country where you can come here and you can express your opinion mildly in the newspaper.

00:54:35.300 What happened to Kent State?

00:54:36.280 And it's a – yeah, I think Kent State was bad.

00:54:40.680 My point is there's things we wish America was, but I kind of feel like a non-citizen getting deported –

00:54:47.160 But this one you said you think is good.

00:54:49.140 You're not sitting here going, ah, man, yeah, that's a bummer.

00:54:51.740 She got deported, dude.

00:54:52.280 What are you talking about?

00:54:52.880 She didn't get shot in the face.

00:54:54.880 A conditional visa was revoked.

00:54:56.680 I'm not crying about it.

00:54:57.500 I don't care.

00:54:59.260 I mean, I think she cares.

00:55:00.820 I think her family cares.

00:55:01.820 I think the people of her university care.

00:55:03.660 I think other – I think – like, change the law, man.

00:55:07.520 This is a marginal issue for a single person who is in violation of the INA as it's enforced by a government that was elected by a popular majority – or I should say by a plurality, but the popular vote.

00:55:17.660 So let me pull this up because this is what we were talking about earlier.

00:55:21.160 This is RCP from April 22nd.

00:55:23.120 Every age bracket, to be fair, 40-49 is a tie.

00:55:26.040 But RealClearPolitics aggregate shows from all of the latest polls, 70-plus is the only age group that has a negative view of Trump's job.

00:55:34.080 Okay.

00:55:34.960 I'm just trying to –

00:55:36.020 This is a popular majority.

00:55:36.880 I'm just trying to make sense of your position around free speech because you agree with me about all the past things in America that you're talking about.

00:55:45.680 Kent State, you're talking about George Carlin and all these other things, and these were bad abrogations of free speech.

00:55:52.780 Indeed.

00:55:53.500 Deportation is not a murder.

00:55:55.340 You're going home.

00:55:56.140 I'm giving you a ride home.

00:55:57.520 If you came to my house, I let you in the door. 0.91

00:56:00.220 I said, you can hang out tonight. 0.99

00:56:01.340 And he started shit-talking my brother. 0.99

00:56:02.620 I said, bro, I'm going to give you a ride home. 0.99

00:56:04.120 I don't think you should be here.

00:56:04.900 That's not an affront to someone's sovereignty or free speech.

00:56:07.720 It's like the worst thing that happened to you is I gave you a ride home.

00:56:10.200 I'm going to cry.

00:56:11.420 She's going home.

00:56:12.200 What's the problem?

00:56:12.960 Home's nice.

00:56:14.220 She was here conditionally. 1.00

00:56:15.380 We said, hey, we kind of think you're being a dick. 0.99

00:56:17.460 We're going to give you a ride home. 0.99

00:56:18.700 That's it.

00:56:20.200 I mean, when I get a ride home, six guys don't normally shove me into a van, and then my family doesn't know where I am.

00:56:26.940 You know, how about you're at a bar, and you're acting out in some way, and they say, listen, buddy, security throws you out of the bar.

00:56:34.040 Do you feel this woman was acting out?

00:56:35.740 Do you think she was acting inappropriately? 1.00

00:56:37.340 Do you think that she was acting—

00:56:38.360 I've already told you I did not.

00:56:40.520 Okay.

00:56:40.960 So then how are you justifying what happened?

00:56:43.400 I don't think you can—

00:56:45.040 It's legally narrow that it can happen.

00:56:47.540 I don't—

00:56:47.980 Therefore, it's good.

00:56:48.680 I don't think you know how to separate.

00:56:50.000 I just don't think you know how to comprehend the separation between—I have no issue with a woman making her argument. 1.00

00:56:58.540 I think it was absurd to claim she's adhering to Hamas because she's critical of Israel.

00:57:03.360 But her visa is conditional, and it is the authority of these United States and the Secretary of State to revoke that.

00:57:10.500 So it's okay.

00:57:12.640 Right?

00:57:13.340 Trump won the popular vote.

00:57:15.280 But—

00:57:15.560 This is the agenda.

00:57:17.500 Sorry, man.

00:57:18.320 This is the hump that I can't get over.

00:57:21.060 Clearly.

00:57:21.660 You don't have any problem with what she actually did, right?

00:57:26.280 But Trump and Rubio had the narrow legal ability to do it.

00:57:31.020 No, no, no.

00:57:31.040 You're not following.

00:57:31.740 Do you agree with their decision to do it?

00:57:34.440 I do not.

00:57:35.060 I think there is a net negative to a degree that foreigners come to this country to dictate our politics. 1.00

00:57:41.520 Be it Canadian, British— 0.66

00:57:42.920 I'm sorry.

00:57:43.040 Dictate our politics or just give their opinion in the newspaper that's dictating?

00:57:48.980 I'll talk about the language.

00:57:50.220 To come here and advocate for policies of the American people.

00:57:53.240 So you feel that foreign nationals of all kinds, when they're in the United States, should never speak about our politics ever upon pain of legal punishment that is a position that you have about America generally? 0.96

00:58:07.200 Did they agree to it?

00:58:09.580 I don't—

00:58:10.020 When they applied for the visa under the INA, did they agree to those terms?

00:58:14.020 I don't know.

00:58:14.680 The answer is yes, they did.

00:58:17.180 It clearly states when you're coming on a condition, you can't do certain things.

00:58:20.460 It literally says you won't protest.

00:58:21.920 And we still would allow them to hold a sign-up or something.

00:58:25.620 But maybe if they didn't—

00:58:26.700 But apparently we don't allow them to hold a sign-up.

00:58:28.620 And I don't—

00:58:29.000 I'm not asking about what they agreed to.

00:58:30.820 I'm not asking about the legal justification.

00:58:32.260 Don't agree to things you don't want to hear to.

00:58:33.280 Do you, Tim Pool, believe that as a moral issue, as a practical issue?

00:58:40.540 Do you think that America should be a country in which every foreign national in the country should feel that they should never speak about American politics under pain of legal punishment?

00:58:51.900 No.

00:58:52.700 You don't think that that's—

00:58:54.000 You don't agree with that.

00:58:54.560 You presented me an absolute.

00:58:56.680 Mm-hmm.

00:58:56.980 Right.

00:58:57.220 You gave me the extreme end.

00:58:58.660 Okay.

00:58:59.240 So Remesa Ozturk, I think, is a really illustrative example because it was such a mild version.

00:59:04.000 I understand that they've made an agreement upon entering this country that if they are in violation of the terms of their visa, it may be revoked.

00:59:11.220 If they come here with the intent of advocating against U.S. foreign policy, that is a consequence.

00:59:16.240 Speech has consequences.

00:59:18.160 I think we're getting hung up on the issue that I've clearly answered, and I understand maybe you don't understand, but—

00:59:23.020 No, I just—

00:59:24.560 We can try and—

00:59:25.840 I think I've pinned you down well enough that, like, you just, like, really have a much smaller view of free speech than I do, and I think a lot of Americans do.

00:59:35.180 I don't think what you said means anything.

00:59:36.940 I think it's a change to the American spirit.

00:59:40.160 I think it makes the country smaller.

00:59:41.360 It's not a shittier country to live in, is a country where people live in fear of what they say when they're here on a student piece of.

00:59:48.160 They always have.

00:59:49.200 Yeah, and that's bad. 1.00

00:59:50.920 It's bad to live in fear of saying shit. 0.99

00:59:54.240 This is not—see, here's the issue. 0.99

00:59:57.040 I suppose your memory goes back three years— 0.93

00:59:59.840 Your whole bullshit culture-baiting thing about the Islam stuff in England, if what you say is true, and it may be, I don't know, because I don't really give—like, I don't really follow that as you do. 0.97

01:00:10.140 You would never go— 0.99

01:00:10.480 But I think it's bad about that country.

01:00:13.080 You would never go to the U.K. and do those things.

01:00:17.400 If I were—now, look, I don't know of the policies of which you speak, okay? 0.85

01:00:21.380 But if I were to be in England, and I were to make a joke on their stage, and I were to be put into a van and removed from a country, I would say, this is a bad thing about England, and I would—I think that the country sucks, and I think that they should change it, and I don't think people should go there anymore, and that sucks for them, and it sucks for us. 0.96

01:00:43.800 I wouldn't make a joke about Islam in the United States. 0.93

01:00:50.120 You wouldn't.

01:00:52.400 Okay.

01:00:53.720 Sure.

01:00:54.320 What's that meant to prove?

01:00:55.960 You don't actually believe in free speech.

01:00:57.420 You fear the consequences.

01:00:59.440 Because I don't make a joke about the topic that you demand me to?

01:01:02.720 Because this topic in particular has resulted in people like a Charlie Hebdo getting murdered.

01:01:07.600 Uh-huh.

01:01:07.920 Yeah, that's bad.

01:01:09.180 It's bad that they were murdered.

01:01:10.120 And, like, South Park tried making—tried just showing Muhammad, and Comedy Central wouldn't let him do it. 0.95

01:01:13.900 Yeah, that's bad.

01:01:14.840 So let's see you stand up for that value and come out and make a joke about Islam.

01:01:17.740 I've stood up about free speech plenty of times.

01:01:19.720 What are you talking about?

01:01:21.580 Take it to the next level, brother.

01:01:23.860 Okay.

01:01:24.400 How about we do this?

01:01:25.880 This is—

01:01:26.320 You believe in free speech.

01:01:27.120 Dude, this is what you do when you've lost an argument, is that you just, like—

01:01:30.020 Okay, you're not even arguing.

01:01:30.840 You just jump to this.

01:01:31.680 You just jump to this.

01:01:33.120 What?

01:01:33.480 What did you say?

01:01:33.780 You brought it up.

01:01:34.380 What did I—oh, the Islam piece of it. 0.99

01:01:36.400 Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, no, no.

01:01:37.340 And now I'm continuing the conversation, and you're derailing it until you must have lost the argument.

01:01:40.540 No, no, because you—

01:01:41.480 Brother, let's stand up for South Park, for Matt Stone and Trey Parker.

01:01:43.740 Yeah, I stand up for them.

01:01:45.000 So go on stage and show a big picture of Muhammad. 0.67

01:01:47.740 I'm sorry.

01:01:48.540 The thing that you're doing—

01:01:50.040 Stand up for free speech, brother.

01:01:50.960 Do it.

01:01:52.080 I'll do it with you.

01:01:52.880 So you're demanding me to go on stage and do something specific, and unless I do, I'm a coward?

01:01:59.440 I'm saying—

01:01:59.900 I didn't say you were a coward. 0.97

01:02:00.660 This is a bizarre rhetorical move. 0.97

01:02:03.360 This is a bizarre rhetorical move. 0.97

01:02:04.520 I didn't call you a coward.

01:02:06.040 I said prove you care about free speech.

01:02:07.660 Do something that creates real risk to your person for free speech. 0.99

01:02:10.860 Yeah, I speak about shit all the time, dude. 0.97

01:02:13.940 I'm happy to live in America where the things I say don't create real risk to my person. 0.99

01:02:18.980 In fact, if I were to say the things that you're saying, I would not be creating real risk to my person.

01:02:24.060 You don't think so.

01:02:25.480 I do not think so.

01:02:26.660 Then why not just do it?

01:02:27.700 Prove me wrong.

01:02:28.340 Because I don't have anything in particular to say about those topics.

01:02:30.940 Just put a picture of Muhammad up and say praise be. 0.99

01:02:34.660 Prove I'm wrong.

01:02:36.120 I'm really glad we got here again because it's just very fun to sit in how weird this part of the conversation is.

01:02:45.040 Remember Charlie Hebdo?

01:02:46.060 Yeah.

01:02:46.560 What happened?

01:02:47.100 Yeah, a bunch of people were shot because they...

01:02:51.220 Shot a picture of Muhammad. 0.93

01:02:52.120 Yeah, that's bad.

01:02:53.000 You think if you did that, they might want to shoot?

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01:04:15.980 You too?

01:04:20.840 Yeah, maybe.

01:04:21.880 So you shouldn't do it?

01:04:24.020 I mean, I don't have it.

01:04:25.520 Well, you know, the particular images that they showed I didn't think were like very funny.

01:04:29.660 Like it was their right to do it.

01:04:30.620 How many Central wouldn't let South Park do it either?

01:04:32.300 They censored the whole thing.

01:04:33.460 Yeah, that's bad.

01:04:34.260 Yeah, that's bad.

01:04:35.400 And I think that's contrary to American values.

01:04:37.340 Why won't the free speech people who believe we should live in this country stand up against that?

01:04:41.400 I'm sorry.

01:04:42.160 I'm not standing up for free speech unless I do what exactly?

01:04:47.220 I didn't say the only way for you to stand up for free speech is to do something.

01:04:50.340 I said, why won't people who are claiming—

01:04:52.260 You called me a hypocrite, and I don't understand what's hypocritical about me only doing jokes about the topics that I'm interested in.

01:04:58.820 What's hypocritical is that you would not go to the U.K. and speak in violation of their speech laws. 0.88

01:05:04.440 I mean, I went there. 0.52

01:05:06.140 I went there.

01:05:06.680 I made fun of their government.

01:05:07.720 I talked about, you know, the fire at Heathrow because that impacted my travel when I was there.

01:05:13.800 They have hate speech laws.

01:05:14.180 I talked about—

01:05:15.060 Uh-huh, yeah. 0.92

01:05:15.500 You can make fun of white people, but you can't make fun of non-white people. 0.98

01:05:18.160 You go to jail for that. 0.98

01:05:19.160 Okay, yeah.

01:05:19.640 I think that would—if it's as you say, that sounds like a—if it would apply to me as a comedian, I think it would say that's a bad law.

01:05:26.840 I would not go to Turkey and speak out against Islam, and I would not go to the U.K. and violate their speech laws.

01:05:31.880 Oh, okay. 0.99

01:05:32.280 So are you a coward? 0.99

01:05:34.560 What's your point? 0.53

01:05:35.640 No, I actually agree with the sovereignty of nations, and if they have laws, I'm not going to violate them.

01:05:39.560 Oh, I see.

01:05:41.700 I see the point that you're making.

01:05:44.340 Okay, so when things are legal, they're just?

01:05:48.200 No.

01:05:49.040 Okay.

01:05:49.640 So then what is your point?

01:05:50.500 That's a—your argument is that foreigners should come here and face no consequences.

01:05:54.840 So one of your values is you should respect the sovereignty of other nations.

01:06:00.540 But again, look, this is a—

01:06:03.160 Should we invade China?

01:06:05.220 This is a recent change in the way that the U.S. prosecutes and selectively enforces the laws that are on the books, and that's, again, what happened to Ramesa Osterk, and again, that's like a material change in, like—

01:06:19.780 Well, I will say, just because I think we spent like an hour on the one subject.

01:06:25.140 Yeah.

01:06:25.460 I've been having a great time.

01:06:26.840 Yeah.

01:06:27.100 I agree.

01:06:27.440 I agree.

01:06:27.620 It's been fun.

01:06:28.400 I had a question.

01:06:29.260 I have a question for you.

01:06:30.180 Yeah, sure.

01:06:30.620 You mentioned that Trump is, you know, it's the makings of authoritarianism and things like that.

01:06:35.200 Do you think that's distinct from any other administration?

01:06:41.060 Keep going.

01:06:41.620 Is the authoritarian push from the Trump administration—obviously there's going to be procedural distinctions, but I mean, like, were other administrations not also doing similar authoritarian maneuvers that were a gas?

01:06:56.820 Yeah, I mean, every single American administration could—I'm sure I can find things that I disagree with.

01:07:04.600 Absolutely.

01:07:05.480 I think one of the challenges that we have in the United States right now is the people that largely support Trump and voted for him, particularly in his first term, and largely carrying over in the second one, non-consecutive, had never voted before.

01:07:19.340 We saw parts of the country that normally don't vote start turning red, start lighting up with new voters.

01:07:24.620 I was at a rally for Trump in Fort Lauderdale, and most of the people that I met were like, I don't vote.

01:07:31.860 I never voted before.

01:07:33.020 So these were new voters, which were like poor, white, you know, working-class people.

01:07:38.520 And so what I think we end up seeing happen, especially right now, is for younger voters, it's interesting considering they are shifting to the right, but they also have less memory of administrations past.

01:07:49.980 For me, I voted for Obama, he was an evil man, and I didn't vote in 2016 because I said the system is corrupt. 0.96

01:08:00.600 I've lived through—you know, I was a teenager when the Gore v. Bush stuff happened, and I just saw bickering and arguments, and I'm right, I'm right, then war and bullshit. 0.95

01:08:10.820 Then Obama comes around, and I was—how old was I, 22 or something, and people were like, you gotta vote for him, he's changed, it's new, he wasn't supposed to win.

01:08:20.400 Hillary Clinton was supposed to be the person, so I voted for Obama. 0.52

01:08:22.740 One of the first things he does is he bombs a Pakistani village, kills a bunch of women and children. 1.00

01:08:27.260 And I went, holy fuck, stopped voting. 1.00

01:08:29.280 Didn't vote in 2016 either, because I said, fuck this. 1.00

01:08:31.280 The issue we see largely now is, to see so many people who are, you know, older millennials, Gen X, and boomer, acting like Donald Trump is an aberration, for a lot of people, it's like, you're fucking lying. 1.00

01:08:44.980 You're lying or you're—you have a myopic view. 0.96

01:08:48.540 I lived through when Barack Obama signed the indefinite detention rendition provisions of the NDAA, or when George W. Bush lied to the American people, didn't declare war, got a bullshit AUMF, and at the time, during the Iraq and Afghanistan war, it was, if you did not agree, they'd blacklist you from media and all these things. 0.96

01:09:08.300 I don't see a functional difference until now.

01:09:12.000 What I see now, I wouldn't necessarily call authoritarianism in that Trump gutting the budget and shutting down departments is weakening federal authority for the first time in my life.

01:09:22.460 I mean, it's not—he's not weakening federal authority.

01:09:25.660 He's weakening state capacity.

01:09:28.160 He's, you know, destroying our ability to, like, predict the weather.

01:09:31.780 He's, like, firing scientists and, like, park service people and stuff like that.

01:09:36.420 In terms of authority, you know, they're beefing up the law enforcement departments and they're sort of, you know, reaching out legally in, you know, stronger ways than ever.

01:09:46.020 So, like, the law enforcement, the capacity for the state to sort of control your behavior is, you know, the people with guns are—there's more of them and they're more powerful than ever.

01:09:58.400 Now, there's some I'm sure that will disagree about, like, the EPA you'd probably see as, you know, the sort of department that's forcing people to do things.

01:10:05.280 I think the EPA is mostly good.

01:10:06.500 We probably disagree about that.

01:10:08.120 But, like, most of the stuff that they're—that he's firing are just the basic, like, good things that the government does. 0.99

01:10:16.260 Like, you know, the government does a lot of really bad shit. 0.99

01:10:18.740 Government does a lot of really good shit. 0.99

01:10:20.560 One of them is, like, predicting the weather, you know, firing, like, thousands of NOAA scientists who are, like, you know, predict, like, when tornadoes are going to come hit, you know, places like this here in West Virginia, right? 0.99

01:10:29.240 We don't get to—we're in the mountains.

01:10:30.300 Okay, sorry.

01:10:31.160 I don't know.

01:10:32.520 Yeah.

01:10:33.020 I think, like, most places, you can get a tornado.

01:10:36.540 Yeah.

01:10:36.920 And there were—sometimes they form, but it's not, like, tornado alley or anything.

01:10:39.860 Yeah.

01:10:40.300 It's just funny, you know, like, the—some of the people who, like, interact with the weather service the most are, you know, in, like, the reddest areas, the tornado-prone places, you know, the storm watch people, stuff like that.

01:10:55.600 And—

01:10:56.000 They voted for it.

01:10:56.520 So a lot of it is—yeah, and, you know, it's really sad because it's just sort of, like, ignorance, like, anti—this anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment sort of sweeping the country is really bad.

01:11:07.260 But I think the interesting thing that you point out, though, is, yeah, there are past authoritarian things that other past presidents did, and I'll agree to that and say, yeah, that's really bad.

01:11:16.940 The difference is you're stumping for it when Trump does it, and I find that really interesting.

01:11:20.260 Well, you're stumping for, yeah, we should deport foreign students who write an op-ed. 0.93

01:11:26.560 Like, that's your—

01:11:27.040 I think it should.

01:11:27.820 You said it's good that they did it.

01:11:30.240 Marginally good.

01:11:31.140 Yeah, okay, great.

01:11:31.940 So you're stumping for it.

01:11:33.360 So—

01:11:33.840 You're on your platform saying it's good.

01:11:35.980 Marginally good.

01:11:36.520 That's my point.

01:11:36.860 Yeah.

01:11:37.040 But I think the important distinction is should implies whenever it happens.

01:11:41.720 I don't agree with that.

01:11:43.460 I think, as I've said a million times, I don't understand.

01:11:46.500 I don't want to go back on the issue.

01:11:49.180 It's an absurdity to claim that someone who's critical of Israel is pro-Hamas.

01:11:52.600 Yeah.

01:11:52.780 People who are pro-Hamas are pro-Hamas. 0.86

01:11:54.540 So there are nuances in all things.

01:11:58.140 What I see largely right now is Trump won the popular vote.

01:12:03.560 He's got approval as of April 22nd.

01:12:05.600 You know, to be fair, this is pre-tariff, so I'm sure it's gone down.

01:12:08.940 But he's got general approval from most demographics except for the 70-plus bunch.

01:12:12.960 And I don't see the removal of government agencies as authoritarian, especially when he promised to do it and then did it based on the people who voted for him.

01:12:21.320 You know, I'm listening to just finish an audiobook about the rise of the Third Reich, just, you know, boning up a little history.

01:12:28.400 You know, one of the first things that they do is that, you know, they destroy the civil service, right, and that kind of state capacity.

01:12:34.020 Frighten those people, get them to fall into line.

01:12:37.000 And that's a big part of what Trump has done.

01:12:39.320 And I think it's been, like, really effective, you know.

01:12:41.620 Frightening who?

01:12:42.500 Frightening, like, the actual people who work in the civil service, right?

01:12:45.420 He's fired.

01:12:45.940 Yeah.

01:12:47.000 Well, firing them and frightening the rest, right, and, you know, getting them to behave differently, installing loyalists, stuff like that.

01:12:54.800 I think it's plainly authoritarian.

01:12:57.360 Every administration will change out the department heads.

01:13:00.120 They won't, and, you know, there's, I did a show about the U.S. government and I, like, you know, met some department heads who are, like, oh, this person's a political appointee and they're not that bright, right, from both, you know, both administrations.

01:13:13.000 But the civil service underneath them, right, the people who are, like, the trained experts, the, you know, the weather scientists at NOAA, the regulators at, like, the FDIC who, like, keep your bank balance safe, stuff like that.

01:13:23.500 You know, then wiping those people out and replacing, like, the actual people with expertise with loyalists, right?

01:13:30.060 And that's where you end up with, you know, the primary value is loyalty to Trump rather than actually getting the thing done properly.

01:13:38.220 And, you know, the DEI push to, like, you know, that's a fig leaf for, you know, removing people who are not sufficiently loyal as well as, well, there's a lot of reasons that they're doing that.

01:13:50.080 I'll say on that regard, I won't make a direct counterargument to that, but I do think that's pretty assumptive.

01:13:56.800 Oh, yeah, I'm making a claim and you can get into it or not.

01:14:00.640 Yeah, it's trying to read into the intent, which may or may not be correct, maybe.

01:14:05.280 Yeah, it may or may not be correct. That is my view, though.

01:14:08.420 Right. My point is, and I respect that, like, your view is based on those actions.

01:14:12.980 There actually absolutely is an easy vehicle for firing people if your move is DEI.

01:14:17.760 It's like, these people here, I don't want them here.

01:14:20.080 Oh, you were hired incorrectly. You're part of a department. I don't want to get rid of them.

01:14:22.740 On the surface, outside of that, I think the DEI stuff is illegal, and I'm glad to see it purged and removed.

01:14:29.600 I think it violates the Civil Rights Act.

01:14:31.660 Like, DEI programs, you think, violate the Civil Rights Act?

01:14:35.600 Yeah, I think, you know, there's an interesting conversation around what is legal and what's not.

01:14:39.900 A lot of people think if SCOTUS has it true, it's legal. I don't think that's fair.

01:14:42.800 Because that would mean that Roe v. Wade should have been overturned, but I think most liberals think it shouldn't have been.

01:14:47.020 So they would argue that it wasn't constitutional or legal.

01:14:50.060 But the Civil Rights Act says we're not supposed to discriminate on the basis of race, sex, religion, gender, etc.

01:14:55.560 And when you create DEI programs where you're specifically targeting based on those factors, you're in clear violation of the Civil Rights Act.

01:15:04.180 I mean, you've got to amend the law or change it or create new provisions.

01:15:06.800 But I'm, you know, how I grew up, I would never want to be in a circumstance where race was a determining factor and whether or not I could get into school or get a job.

01:15:15.600 Yeah, neither would I. But for a lot of people, it fucking is, man. 0.97

01:15:18.980 But that's why we got the Civil Rights Act. And you have a right to sue the institutions that are in violation of that. 0.93

01:15:22.960 And through those laws, we've eliminated largely blockbusting and redlining. 0.98

01:15:26.420 And then Democrats largely started to enact a lot of redlining still, but it's better than true.

01:15:31.300 It's true. And that shouldn't be allowed.

01:15:33.620 And it's through the Civil Rights Act, through the lawsuits.

01:15:35.860 We've gotten rid of those things.

01:15:37.440 I don't understand how we circled back.

01:15:39.200 And it's largely through through the liberal side of things to start using race again.

01:15:43.340 That's crazy to me to start using race again.

01:15:47.020 Well, let me clarify that.

01:15:48.520 Obviously, everybody always was secretly trying to use race because this country has a history.

01:15:53.200 I don't think it's fair to say just this country, but people are racist.

01:15:55.440 I think everybody's racist.

01:15:57.220 And we're trying our best, I think, civilizationally, to be like, let's stop doing that.

01:16:02.280 But there are a lot of people that don't because they're racist. 0.92

01:16:04.800 So when I see, I don't care if it's a white redneck dude saying he doesn't like black people or whatever. 0.97

01:16:11.780 These people online that want to make, anytime they post a video, they'll post a video of black people committing a crime. 0.99

01:16:18.620 And it's like, brother, I could find videos, too, of white people committing crimes. 0.86

01:16:20.880 If you want to do like a multivariate study of every single instance of video crime or whatever, we could.

01:16:26.200 There are FBI crime sets.

01:16:27.240 I get that.

01:16:28.060 But there are racist people out there.

01:16:29.640 But the Democrats are still engaged in racist practices through DEI and gender-based discrimination, etc., which is just clear violation of every title of the Civil Rights Act.

01:16:41.360 I mean, there's a million different programs that get lumped in as DEI.

01:16:46.380 I'm interested to know, you do think racism exists in America and it's a problem that we should keep fighting?

01:16:54.180 Profoundly exists in this country.

01:16:55.700 And I think, I don't think it'll ever go away.

01:16:58.960 I don't, I don't, I think we have, we have, the proximity is the best cure.

01:17:03.680 You know, you grow up around people and you understand they're good people.

01:17:06.540 You tolerate them.

01:17:07.180 I think we have a challenge in, with enclaves.

01:17:10.480 So you'll find, and I think a lot of conservatives need to hear this, too, because I was, I was in Virginia near Hampton Roads.

01:17:17.200 It's a lot of racism there.

01:17:18.400 And I mean, like, literally white areas that are predominantly white, that don't like black people, don't like Mexicans, don't like Chinese people.

01:17:24.780 And that exists. 0.97

01:17:25.660 And they're going to be racist.

01:17:26.780 But you get a similar but different kind of function in white uppity, liberal conclaves, too. 0.52

01:17:31.520 And so I do think it's a problem.

01:17:34.220 But the problem that I see now is affluent white liberals who have this, you know, let me use an example.

01:17:43.580 Do you know about the Yale study that found that white liberals, they reduce their vocabularies to talk to black people?

01:17:49.720 I do not know about it, but it sounds like it could be true.

01:17:54.900 Like, it sounds anecdotally, you know. 0.95

01:17:57.640 Yeah, there's a lot of racist white liberals. 0.97

01:18:00.560 They present themselves as less competent in interactions with African Americans. 1.00

01:18:04.760 Yeah.

01:18:05.260 Conservatives tend not to, but there still are obviously, like, racist parts of the South, especially in the South.

01:18:12.440 Racist parts all over America.

01:18:13.880 And by the way, racism isn't unique to white people either.

01:18:17.060 Right.

01:18:17.240 I mean, brother, go to Asia.

01:18:19.500 Anybody who's been to China or Japan or Korea, it's like.

01:18:22.380 Well, and in America, we have a form of racism that's, like, you know, based around white supremacy.

01:18:27.000 But it's, like, non-white people can, like, participate and, like, be a part of it.

01:18:30.780 I think that exists, but I don't think it's the predominant anymore.

01:18:34.660 It may be largely.

01:18:36.060 So let me ask you this.

01:18:37.180 When, like, you know, there's a plane crash or a fire or something like that, and the Trump administration, the first thing they do is they say, ah, too many black air traffic controllers.

01:18:48.140 Like, that's the first thing they do.

01:18:49.380 When did they say that?

01:18:50.480 That was, like, immediately they just come out and they're like, DEI and the FAA, that's the problem.

01:18:55.080 That was, like, the first, that was the first thing Trump came out and did.

01:18:58.260 And then that became the narrative.

01:18:59.400 Maybe.

01:18:59.900 All I can tell you is.

01:19:00.940 Does that seem like racism to you?

01:19:03.120 Because it does to me.

01:19:03.780 What I can tell you is I interviewed the Secretary of Transportation.

01:19:05.980 He actually rejected that premise.

01:19:07.720 Oh, that, that, you rejected the premise that, sorry.

01:19:10.460 Right.

01:19:10.720 So I asked Secretary Duffy, are we actually seeing an increase in, you know, these airline accidents?

01:19:18.560 Because we've seen these high-profile stories.

01:19:20.240 Some have argued it's DEI finally catching up, which I don't think makes sense.

01:19:24.600 That all of a sudden just planes crash because they hired diverse, you know, people or whatever.

01:19:29.440 And Duffy said, no.

01:19:30.700 He said, we've not seen a significant uptake.

01:19:32.520 It's largely just a phenomenon of the media.

01:19:34.420 And people are getting riled up.

01:19:35.860 And, of course, the right wants to say it's because of DEI, which makes no sense.

01:19:38.620 The left is saying it's because of the Trump administration, which makes no sense.

01:19:41.460 The issue is we had stories that were sensationalized in the media.

01:19:45.280 People perceived an increase in air traffic accidents.

01:19:47.740 But we are going to try and, you know, streamline and fix the FAA.

01:19:50.540 Yeah, no, I felt that, well, look, the air traffic controller system is in obviously a terrible state and that's a problem.

01:19:56.360 Did you see the computers they have?

01:19:57.720 The Newark thing is, I mean, look, there's something to be said for old computers, you know.

01:20:03.540 There's a lot of people who make a lot of hay about, you know, government systems being written in Fortran and COBOL.

01:20:08.480 But that stuff is actually really, like, future-proof, you know.

01:20:11.180 Like, it's old code bases that are, like, really well run and stuff.

01:20:14.160 It's not future-proof.

01:20:14.800 It's subject to ICS hacks.

01:20:16.120 It's insane.

01:20:16.760 In some cases, I've read engineering analyses for, like, you know, in some cases we don't need to make fun of the old code.

01:20:24.000 It's okay to have old code.

01:20:25.640 You know, same reason why, hey, you know, punch cards weren't so bad for voting sometimes. 0.99

01:20:29.480 You know, like, the old shit works well in some cases. 0.98

01:20:32.760 But the, you know, FAA, air traffic control, we've got to fix it up. 0.99

01:20:36.500 It's an infrastructure problem in the country.

01:20:38.840 But, and so, based on what, you know, and I believe that a lot of the crashes were clustering, right?

01:20:45.040 A couple crashes happen in short order.

01:20:46.880 Right, right.

01:20:47.060 Happens randomly.

01:20:48.220 Well, not just media.

01:20:49.040 It's like the human psychology, right?

01:20:50.400 Right, right.

01:20:50.760 Three random events happen together and you think a whole lot are happening all at once.

01:20:54.640 But, like, Donald Trump, the man, the human being, his literal first response was to come out and go, 0.89

01:21:02.140 too many black air traffic controllers, too many. 0.99

01:21:04.420 I mean, I'm paraphrasing for comedy. 0.97

01:21:06.520 Yeah, I don't think he specifically said black people.

01:21:09.260 No, he didn't say black people.

01:21:09.940 I think he's talking about DEI.

01:21:10.940 He said DEI.

01:21:11.800 He blamed it on DEI immediately.

01:21:13.100 And there is this odd, like, look, I'm not a fan of corporate DEI programs especially.

01:21:22.120 The right was really smart to seize on DEI as a slur to tar all attempts to address racism with because it's an acronym.

01:21:32.160 They're calling it didn't earn it.

01:21:33.700 Uh-huh, yeah.

01:21:34.300 Yeah, you know, I've been through some seminars that were, like, a waste of time or whatever, kind of annoying. 0.99

01:21:39.120 And I think that, you know, the corporate response to, you know, George Floyd's murder and everything that happened afterwards was, like, pretty toothless and stupid.

01:21:48.620 But I find it bizarre to watch the right, like, something goes wrong and they're immediately like, oh, the problem is that we have a, you know, woman fire chief or we have a, you know, people of color air traffic controllers. 0.98

01:22:04.540 Like, it's like, oh, that's just straight up racism.

01:22:08.000 It's a communication failure.

01:22:08.860 But you've, like, somehow done a little loop-de-loop where you're like, oh, I think DEI is racist.

01:22:15.360 Therefore, me yelling at, you know, black people in positions of power is not racist.

01:22:22.320 I mean, but that's not the case.

01:22:24.360 I mean, the right wanted to elect Larry Elder to governor of California.

01:22:30.680 The meme among all conservatives is that Clarence Thomas should clone himself and replace every other Supreme Court justice.

01:22:38.780 I'm not talking about that.

01:22:39.700 I'm just talking about the rush to blame these infrastructure problems on.

01:22:44.120 So I would call that a failure of communication for sure.

01:22:47.440 The issue—

01:22:48.120 Call it racism.

01:22:49.480 But it's not the target. 0.73

01:22:51.280 The target is people who are hired without passing, not the fact that they're black.

01:22:55.480 So Charlie Kirk got a lot of flack for this because he said, you know, I go on a plane, I see a black pilot, and I think, am I supposed to be worried? 0.79

01:23:01.720 Yeah, that's racist.

01:23:02.640 But the point he was making was he was calling you racist, dude, and you guys didn't get that.

01:23:08.460 He said, you have created a situation where average people think you are hiring people who can't do the job based on race, and we don't want to live that way.

01:23:18.000 I mean, he's the one getting on the plane and seeing a black person and saying that person's not qualified.

01:23:22.380 I don't get it.

01:23:22.800 That's not what he's saying.

01:23:23.440 He says Democrats are intentionally hiring underqualified people based on race.

01:23:26.640 Why are they putting us in a situation like this?

01:23:29.540 He's saying that if a black person is in the seat, it means they're unqualified. 0.51

01:23:32.460 That's his assertion.

01:23:33.200 No, he's saying he doesn't know because he knows you are advocating for it.

01:23:37.200 I'm just listening to the words that he's saying.

01:23:38.900 It seems pretty straightforward.

01:23:40.380 I would say that when the left and the right only listen to the surface-level clips and arguments, they don't actually understand what the person is conveying.

01:23:49.320 And so the argument then is Charlie Kirk is a racist, which is not true.

01:23:52.500 Charlie Kirk's point on that plane was, let's just map it out one, two, three.

01:23:56.680 Democrats have created policies by which they will put people in positions of authority who don't have the same caliber degree or have passed certain tests because of race.

01:24:06.300 We've seen policies where they will actually go down the list of top candidates until they get to a race.

01:24:11.960 This creates a concern among people that individuals are being hired without the capability based on race.

01:24:18.520 That's the idea he's trying to convey. 0.93

01:24:20.080 Not that he doesn't want to fly with a black pilot.

01:24:21.480 Do you think that in the time when we only had white pilots or white executives or white whatever, all those people were hired on merit?

01:24:30.440 None of them floated through for some other reason?

01:24:33.320 Nepotism?

01:24:34.260 Yeah, exactly.

01:24:36.560 I bet some people gave BJs.

01:24:38.840 Yeah, exactly.

01:24:39.580 The systems are like they already do that for everybody.

01:24:44.160 So for him to go in and say, oh, when I see a black person, that's when I think that, not when I see a white person, then that's racist on his part because he's only focusing on when the black people are there.

01:24:58.080 But it's because the policy is race-based.

01:25:02.180 The policy is race and gender-based. 0.96

01:25:05.080 And so the issue is not Charlie Kirk saying he doesn't like black people.

01:25:08.000 He's saying Democrats are hiring people who are less qualified based on race.

01:25:12.260 This is creating a concern for people which we don't want to experience.

01:25:16.200 So the counter-argument would be if you have a system that...

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01:26:17.020 Kia.

01:26:17.720 Movement that inspires.

01:26:18.900 Has no black people in it, right? 1.00

01:26:21.860 You have a pool of people doing the job that has no black people in it that clearly is not based on merit because, you know, black people are X percent of the population. 0.90

01:26:34.560 And surely some would have gotten through if it was really based on nothing but merit.

01:26:37.500 So some of the existing white people must actually not have gotten there via merit.

01:26:42.680 It must be because of a race-based system.

01:26:45.040 So instead, let's adjust the system so that we give everybody an equal opportunity. 0.51

01:26:50.820 That is going to mean that there are going to be more black people in the system.

01:26:54.760 Now that that happens, he now gets on the plane. 0.98

01:26:56.840 And he sees a black person and he says, oh, now it seems they seem unqualified to me.

01:27:00.620 I actually think that it was racist systems that kept out qualified candidates.

01:27:08.160 What I would say to your argument is the only distinction between what you said and white nationalists is that you want a system to bring those people in.

01:27:17.260 And white nationalists don't.

01:27:20.140 So you both the left and the right agree that there is some kind of phenomenon where black people should be qualified and aren't aren't qualifying.

01:27:29.040 I disagree with that.

01:27:31.540 I think that there were institutions throughout history that have put that hampered the process by which minorities were able to go to schools to effectively get those degrees.

01:27:41.800 It's very difficult.

01:27:42.800 So the liberal argument floats dangerously close, I think, to what white nationalists are hoping for.

01:27:48.240 It's not to say you're wrong or anything, but it's a it's a similar argument that is the implication.

01:27:54.300 So I'll put it this way.

01:27:55.100 Ben and Jerry's.

01:27:56.600 Do you know the 1350 is?

01:27:59.140 The they call it the 1350.

01:28:01.440 Is that a Ben and Jerry's thing? 0.98

01:28:03.020 Yeah, not not intentionally, but this was like, holy shit, brother, like maybe you shouldn't be tweeting this. 0.99

01:28:10.180 The 1350 is a meme which references 13, despite being 13 percent of the population, black people commit 50 percent of the crimes. 0.99

01:28:18.040 And so that is a meme shared among white nationalists.

01:28:20.620 Ben and Jerry's put out the exact same meme, but tried approaching it from a DEI standpoint. 0.99

01:28:26.960 And this lit the fucking Internet up with people mocking Ben and Jerry's being like, holy shit, they've gone full white nationalists. 0.99

01:28:34.160 They they said, despite making up 13 percent of the population, black people make up 50 percent of the arrests and the white nationalists said, you're correct. 1.00

01:28:41.760 100 percent correct.

01:28:42.520 We agree with you on everything and started cheering for Ben and Jerry's.

01:28:45.180 And I was like, well, guys, don't take their arguments from them.

01:28:49.720 Like, I think it's fair to say that there are racist, you know, components of racism that have existed in this country for a long time.

01:28:56.120 The solution would be colorblind hiring processes and educational benefits that target class and not race, because then you remove the racial component from the argument completely instead of creating a racial argument for the white nationalists.

01:29:10.280 But if you admit that people in America are racist, you can't if you want to you can't build systems that are completely blind to race.

01:29:18.520 You have race continue. 0.57

01:29:20.440 You have then you have individual racists continuing to that'll never change power over the system.

01:29:25.340 So what you do is you accept racism?

01:29:26.940 You're like, OK, racism will continue to affect every part of the system.

01:29:29.800 And we can mitigate it.

01:29:30.860 Right. So, for instance, for hiring practices, when it comes to the hiring managers, they should have no access to the name or the race of the individual.

01:29:37.940 It should literally be here's the resume.

01:29:40.540 Here's our qualifications.

01:29:41.440 Is it a yes or a no?

01:29:42.740 And what we do then is we should target class based opportunities for the younger generations.

01:29:48.320 Meaning if if we go like so, for instance, I grew up in Chicago, heavily racially segregated.

01:29:54.220 We had 47th Street was a dividing line where on one side was all black. 0.99

01:29:57.940 On the other side, it was largely white.

01:29:59.760 But, you know, there was some Latino there.

01:30:01.840 This created a lot of problems.

01:30:03.900 Two different neighborhoods looking at each other like others. 0.85

01:30:07.600 And if you were white and went to the black neighborhood, you got arrested.

01:30:10.940 If you were black and went to the white neighborhood, the police wouldn't go near them because they were scared of being called racist. 0.96

01:30:15.340 The gangs would come from the black side and rob people on the white side, creating a lot of anger where the white people would be like, it's black people doing it. 0.99

01:30:23.740 And then I'd be like, I actually think it's a different community. 0.98

01:30:26.040 It doesn't matter if it's white or otherwise. 0.74

01:30:27.620 They just don't view as part of their community.

01:30:30.120 So they don't care if they rob you.

01:30:31.780 But if I robbed you, all the neighbors would get mad at me.

01:30:35.000 Right.

01:30:35.400 The issue isn't the race.

01:30:36.780 But this created massive racial tensions. 0.95

01:30:38.820 If you went into that neighborhood and gave the blacks, the black neighborhood, a ton of benefits, resources, checks or whatever based on race, brother, that'd be murders. 1.00

01:30:49.560 It'd be it'd be fucking nuts. 1.00

01:30:51.260 The racial tension you'd create. 0.86

01:30:52.640 But if we do it based on income and class, then you'd have equal amounts of both neighborhoods now going to the same schools, making friends with each other.

01:31:01.020 And then you're going to have one guy who's going to be like, yeah, I live on 46th.

01:31:03.680 And I'm like, no way.

01:31:04.180 Do I live on 48th?

01:31:05.200 Like, bro, you're south of 47th.

01:31:06.800 Let's hang out, man.

01:31:07.960 Now they're friends.

01:31:08.960 They don't view each other as others.

01:31:10.900 They don't they don't feel like their taxes are going to one racial group.

01:31:14.160 Instead, what's ended up happening is DEI programs have said it's going to be based on race.

01:31:18.680 And so then you get, you know, if you go to like Appalachia, for instance, these are the poorest of the poor.

01:31:22.840 And they feel like what little they could have is being given away to other people based on race.

01:31:27.100 And they're being left behind, which breeds racial animosity.

01:31:29.840 Yeah, I mean, the pitting of, you know, poor white people against black people is like just part of the strategy of, you know, the people in power. 0.53

01:31:38.780 And they've they've always done it.

01:31:40.520 And it's unfortunate.

01:31:41.680 It's unfortunate to watch, you know, it's unfortunate to watch the country like descend into that again.

01:31:48.960 You know, racial issues are hard to tackle because it's we're very susceptible to it.

01:31:53.280 And unfortunately, we've backslid into a period of white racial backlash again, where, you know, the people around the country are just they're just like I mean, the Trump administration literally just treats any black person as unqualified and fires them from the federal government.

01:32:06.660 Like that's what Pete Hegseth is doing the Department of Defense.

01:32:09.220 It's like it's just like out and out racism.

01:32:13.980 You know, it's like a racial purge of the government.

01:32:17.480 It's really bizarre.

01:32:18.460 They're trying to like reset the country. 0.96

01:32:20.900 Where did that where did that happen where they were firing black people? 0.99

01:32:23.160 I mean, I don't know the names off the top of my head, but yeah, that sounds that sounds not true.

01:32:28.680 I mean, yeah, I mean, because like I'll put it this way, even if it were true, it's so overt that like they're being really overt about it.

01:32:35.940 I mean, Donald Trump is going on television and going planes are crashing because of DEI.

01:32:40.260 So it's a philosophy is an ideology.

01:32:43.520 He's saying because there are unqualified air traffic controllers because they were hired because they're people of color.

01:32:49.100 It's racist. 0.99

01:32:49.660 He's racist. 0.99

01:32:50.380 He's a racist man and he's issuing racist policy and the entire country is going along with it because we're in a period of white racial backlash. 0.99

01:32:56.740 When do you think he became racist? 1.00

01:32:58.180 I think he's been racist his whole fucking life. 0.99

01:32:59.940 How did he win all those awards then? 1.00

01:33:01.220 Like are like those accolades and like, I don't know what accolades you want.

01:33:04.260 He's won accolades.

01:33:05.180 Yeah. 0.99

01:33:05.460 It was like a civil, like civil rights leader awards and shit. 0.98

01:33:08.720 Donald Trump was, has won civil rights leader awards. 0.99

01:33:11.160 Let me see if I can find some.

01:33:12.060 I'm pretty sure. 1.00

01:33:12.700 Well, that's, uh, I mean, awards are dumb, so I don't, I think he won them because awards are stupid. 0.99

01:33:21.020 Like, I don't know, a bad job awards committee for giving the, he did get the Ellis Island medal of honor, 0.98

01:33:26.360 but there's a correction.

01:33:27.040 It wasn't particularly over racial issues.

01:33:29.180 I don't know what that means.

01:33:30.700 Uh, you love Trump so much.

01:33:33.940 It's funny.

01:33:34.240 You're pulling up his awards.

01:33:35.220 I don't, I don't, I don't.

01:33:36.960 I mean, he's won so many racial awards.

01:33:38.960 I think it's weird that you think I love Trump.

01:33:41.260 I mean, you're here talking about how great his approval numbers are.

01:33:44.340 Like, that's a fact.

01:33:45.400 That's a fact statement.

01:33:46.220 Your YouTube headlines are all like Trump.

01:33:48.100 Trump is crushing.

01:33:49.120 His numbers are up.

01:33:50.680 His, well, you know, and the rest of the press is like, his numbers are down.

01:33:53.640 I never said his numbers were up.

01:33:54.700 I, I, I literally just told you right now, because of the tariffs, his numbers have gone

01:33:58.320 down.

01:33:58.720 Dude, look.

01:33:59.240 I went on Piers Morgan and said, Trump's approval is absolutely down.

01:34:02.360 And I said, you don't got to look at corporate press.

01:34:04.480 Take a look at Rasmussen.

01:34:05.780 They love Trump and they have Trump down four points.

01:34:08.000 Let me, let me ask you something.

01:34:09.340 I don't think you watch my show.

01:34:11.000 Oh, I don't watch it that much.

01:34:12.520 I've, but I've looked at like your, your YouTube headlines.

01:34:15.120 We've never said, we've never said Trump's poll, Trump's polls have recently been rebounding,

01:34:19.000 but that's a fact statement from Newsweek aggregating like three or four different polls.

01:34:23.760 Yeah.

01:34:24.220 I'm not going to, I'm not going to lie in terms of polls are down if they're not down.

01:34:27.220 And if his polls are down, I'll say they're down.

01:34:28.960 Okay.

01:34:29.280 I mean, I use all the reporting I saw in the last, in the last week was like, oh, his

01:34:32.380 numbers are down.

01:34:32.920 And I saw you were going, they're up.

01:34:34.020 And I look at your YouTube headlines.

01:34:35.380 And a lot of times it seems like, look, the easiest way to get people to click on YouTube

01:34:38.680 is tell them that their side is winning.

01:34:40.220 I have trouble getting sucked into this in my own YouTube headlines.

01:34:43.400 I just go by, I just go, and you know what I try to do?

01:34:45.920 I try to avoid singular polls as well.

01:34:47.860 So what I, I was on, I was on Piers Morgan.

01:34:50.260 He asked about this.

01:34:51.180 Carrie Lake, of course, said, of course he's doing well.

01:34:52.860 The polls are lying.

01:34:53.500 I said, no, they're not.

01:34:54.460 I was like, the issue is that people don't, the one thing that's challenging is that the

01:34:57.760 polls are so dramatically different from each other that it's going to create this perception.

01:35:02.200 But my point was simply track a single poll, find one you trust.

01:35:06.860 If Trump, Trump supporters love Rasmussen.

01:35:09.160 Okay.

01:35:09.480 Well, Rasmussen had Trump go down.

01:35:10.900 So even if, even if you think ABC is lying, is Rasmussen who had Trump up yesterday?

01:35:15.960 Well, he's down today.

01:35:16.640 So Trump's approval went down with, oh, come on.

01:35:20.660 It went down with the tariffs.

01:35:21.540 The tariffs were bad for him.

01:35:24.180 But the tariffs are bad. 1.00

01:35:25.680 They're really stupid. 1.00

01:35:26.920 He's losing his mind. 1.00

01:35:28.440 So for instance, like Rasmussen currently has him up three points.

01:35:31.840 Yeah.

01:35:32.560 The challenging thing I think is like, if you look at economists and big data, they cover

01:35:37.320 nearly the same span plus one minus eight.

01:35:41.820 That's why I'm like, I don't know how you track singular polls.

01:35:44.340 And the aggregates are also confusing as well.

01:35:46.140 So what I say is, I always show this.

01:35:48.800 I'll always try to show all the polls in the aggregates.

01:35:51.320 But then I'll say, let's just track an individual poll.

01:35:54.180 Maybe it had Trump minus 10 yesterday.

01:35:56.300 Maybe he's minus 12 today, showing a downward trend.

01:35:59.100 Then where are the favorable polls?

01:36:00.600 But like, I don't watch your show that much.

01:36:02.260 I click around.

01:36:03.920 It seems like you support Trump generally.

01:36:06.040 You're normally saying, here's why the thing that he did.

01:36:08.980 Yeah.

01:36:09.160 Okay.

01:36:09.400 So you like him generally.

01:36:11.300 You do a lot of bad things too.

01:36:12.380 But I'm saying, you know, he's behaving in an authoritarian fashion.

01:36:17.940 He's abridging free speech.

01:36:19.360 You're like, oh, but presidents in the past did that.

01:36:21.880 They were being authoritarian and they were abridging free speech.

01:36:24.140 And here's why Bush did it.

01:36:25.140 And it's bad.

01:36:25.940 Well, that's how I phrased it.

01:36:28.000 My phrasing was, do you think it's distinct from other administrations?

01:36:32.000 Do you thought it was good when they were doing it before?

01:36:33.820 My question for you is, do you think it was good when they were doing it before?

01:36:37.060 It was bad.

01:36:38.400 Yeah.

01:36:38.640 And my point is, there are instances where you didn't care and instances where you did.

01:36:43.040 So again, I think.

01:36:45.120 I wasn't on this show then.

01:36:46.460 So I cared about it then.

01:36:47.780 Let me.

01:36:48.660 So Piers Morgan had a great question for me when I went on the show.

01:36:51.680 And I keep bringing him up.

01:36:52.580 But, you know, he does a good show.

01:36:53.540 It's kind of sensational.

01:36:54.280 But he asked me how I thought Trump was doing.

01:36:59.020 And I said, B plus.

01:37:00.640 I think that the universal tariff thing is, I'm skeptical of it.

01:37:04.200 It's a little wonky.

01:37:06.400 Selective tariffs, I think, are a good thing.

01:37:08.800 And then Piers asked me, would you say the same thing about Joe Biden if he did this?

01:37:12.380 I said, of course not.

01:37:13.260 Probably not.

01:37:14.260 And the issue is that Donald Trump's moral positions more largely reflect my own.

01:37:20.660 And just like liberals who would defend Biden, we're more forgiving of the individual who

01:37:25.920 does errors and makes mistakes if they're more in line with our worldview.

01:37:29.480 So if Joe Biden, like the Afghanistan debacle, the Burisma scandal, Nord Stream, all of these

01:37:35.240 things, Keystone Pipeline, I'd look at as a litany of negative compounded with another

01:37:40.520 negative.

01:37:41.020 I'd say it's bad.

01:37:42.240 Donald Trump, I see, is doing a spattering of bad things, but largely good things.

01:37:46.140 So I say, I can tolerate some bad things from Trump.

01:37:49.360 I'm not going to condemn his whole presidency.

01:37:51.360 Yeah, so you're like, it's tribalism on your part.

01:37:54.600 Like, you're like, he's my guy.

01:37:56.240 You know, I agree with him about, I don't know, what do you really like? 0.96

01:38:00.980 You hate trans people or whatever. 0.96

01:38:02.500 And so- 0.98

01:38:03.120 Well, I'll reiterate it, right?

01:38:06.180 I praised Joe Biden when he was fighting to remove ATM fees.

01:38:08.980 Mm-hmm.

01:38:10.220 But you have a litany of negatives with the Biden administration that I see.

01:38:13.940 And so when he does something wrong, I'm going to say one more grain of sand in the

01:38:19.220 heap of the bad things he's doing.

01:38:20.860 With Donald Trump, the policies enacted I largely agree with.

01:38:23.620 So when he does a bad thing, I say, yeah, that's kind of bad.

01:38:26.320 But, you know, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now and we'll see what

01:38:28.680 happens.

01:38:29.140 Well, you're also talking about-

01:38:30.260 Liberals do the same thing on all their issues. 0.92

01:38:31.660 It's not unique to me or you or any other person.

01:38:34.520 Obviously-

01:38:35.240 You're talking about human psychology.

01:38:36.460 When someone's on your side, generally, you forgive the bad things that they do a little

01:38:39.480 bit more.

01:38:39.700 Well, I don't forgive the bad things.

01:38:40.840 I'm saying we tolerate them.

01:38:42.160 Mm-hmm.

01:38:42.420 We say, like-

01:38:43.320 Close, close, those are close to each other, but sure.

01:38:45.860 Well, the difference is I'm not going to forgive Donald Trump for, you know, he's accused

01:38:50.700 of killing a seven-year-old American girl in Yemen.

01:38:52.760 I want that criminally investigated.

01:38:54.420 I'm not going to forgive him for 59 Tomahawk missiles into Syria in his first term. 0.94

01:38:58.700 That was ludicrous that he thought that was going to be good and it's ridiculous the 0.85

01:39:02.020 media praised him for it. 0.97

01:39:03.360 These things always deserve condemnation.

01:39:04.940 In fact, I'll criticize him now because he said to me personally in an interview, he

01:39:08.840 wouldn't bomb Yemen.

01:39:09.940 And then he did.

01:39:11.380 Now he's claiming he's not going to do it anymore, but that deserves criticism.

01:39:15.060 I don't need to forgive him for that.

01:39:16.820 I will challenge him because of it and demand he do better.

01:39:20.460 I see largely what he's done as things I want to happen and the bad things should be called

01:39:26.120 out when they are.

01:39:27.460 I'm not going to condemn his presidency over the bad things.

01:39:30.480 I will criticize them.

01:39:31.320 For Joe Biden, I see a litany of bad things.

01:39:34.240 I condemn largely what he's doing.

01:39:36.800 You know, periodically he gets praise for the things that he's trying to do.

01:39:39.260 And I'll say, look, yeah, that's a good thing, right? 1.00

01:39:40.960 ATM fees are fucked up and that's bullshit. 0.99

01:39:43.520 A tax on the poor through the corporate banking system that shouldn't be. 1.00

01:39:47.040 However, Biden, you know, look, when he defies the Supreme Court over the student loan thing

01:39:52.900 or tries to decree an amendment, the criticism there is you don't have the authority to do

01:39:58.620 that, to just decree an amendment. 0.72

01:40:00.020 That's that's a ridiculous overreach.

01:40:01.460 Nice try, buddy.

01:40:02.500 When the courts say you can't forgive student loans twice and he does it anyway, we're like,

01:40:06.900 holy crap, look at what he is doing once again.

01:40:09.680 With Donald Trump, we say, yeah, he shouldn't have done that with Abrego Garcia. 0.99

01:40:13.460 That was wrong.

01:40:14.280 What's the solution here?

01:40:15.480 Let's let's just try and mitigate that.

01:40:17.160 But it's harmless error.

01:40:18.160 There's there's a difference in this the scale and scope of actions taken.

01:40:21.920 But they're making like they're making such a big deal out of it.

01:40:26.720 Right.

01:40:27.000 On they're not treating it as a harmful political attack against Democrats.

01:40:31.100 Yeah.

01:40:31.440 It's a I think against immigrants, illegal immigrants. 0.99

01:40:35.340 Well, my there's a distinction.

01:40:38.440 Yeah.

01:40:38.980 And also foreign students who are in or who are here studying.

01:40:43.260 And like it's a full pronged attack against all types of immigrants.

01:40:47.360 Like like he's he's trying to frighten every type of immigrant in America. 1.00

01:40:52.180 They've gone down the list, you know, when he's like talking to Bukali and is like, oh,

01:40:56.380 you got to you got to make a prison for citizens, too.

01:40:59.300 You know, like he's he's doing that on purpose to frighten people.

01:41:04.520 That's what I'm talking about with authoritarianism.

01:41:07.000 And I think that's bad.

01:41:09.600 I agree.

01:41:10.180 I think it's bad, too.

01:41:11.260 Oh, cool.

01:41:12.560 Indeed.

01:41:13.020 Great.

01:41:13.260 Yeah, we've we've we've had the conversation many a night about how Trump shouldn't do that.

01:41:17.620 In fact, the Trump base is split on whether he should or should not be doing it.

01:41:21.240 Half of them are saying no way there.

01:41:23.820 There are a lot of most prominent voices have come after him over saying American citizens

01:41:27.200 because that's, you know, clearly wrong and authoritarian.

01:41:33.160 Yeah.

01:41:33.400 Well, you know, they they they came for the Jews and I said nothing, you know, like it's 1.00

01:41:37.680 that's how we this is how I feel people voted for this guy who's he just I mean, he doesn't 0.99

01:41:42.300 give a shit about anybody. 0.98

01:41:42.980 He wants to just throw anyone he doesn't like a way to El Salvador and lock him up. 1.00

01:41:48.400 And, you know, that's the that's the deal the American public made, unfortunately.

01:41:52.100 Like for me, I remember when, you know, Barack Obama killed four American citizens and his

01:42:00.320 staffers publicly stated, too bad.

01:42:03.260 One of the one of them was a 16 year old American citizen named Abdul Rahman Al-Awlaki.

01:42:07.880 Was it was a drone strike situation?

01:42:09.600 Drone strike in Yemen authorized by Barack Obama.

01:42:12.660 And their response to the extrajudicial assassination of a 16 year old American who was not a criminal,

01:42:17.360 not wanted for anything was, oops, we were trying to kill somebody else.

01:42:21.340 So it's like country we're not at war with was bombed, killing dozens of several civilians.

01:42:27.440 I don't know.

01:42:27.640 It's a horrible program.

01:42:29.160 Terrible.

01:42:29.500 And these people that are complaining about Trump are just it's it's it's platitude.

01:42:36.720 It's not real.

01:42:37.820 Now, I'm not saying you.

01:42:38.900 I'm saying because I also complained about the drone strikes.

01:42:41.480 Indeed, indeed.

01:42:42.120 And, you know, I every every liberal I talk with is like, yeah, that we all condemn that.

01:42:46.500 I'm like, I think there's a general agreement among the populist factions of left and right.

01:42:51.080 We are mad at Obama for doing these things. 0.99

01:42:53.180 But the establishment forces that are empowered never gave a shit. 0.99

01:42:57.080 And that includes the Republicans. 0.98

01:42:59.000 So, like recently, I was I was complaining to Sri Tandadar, who was trying to impeach Trump.

01:43:04.520 And I said, I'll give you this.

01:43:06.540 I will give you my full support of your articles of impeachment against Trump if you also draft retroactive impeachment against Obama for the extrajudicial, extrajudicial assassinations of American citizens.

01:43:16.220 He said, no. And I said, we is retroactive impeachment is, in fact.

01:43:22.500 So because of presidential immunity, you can't go after Obama for having killed a 16 year old American citizen.

01:43:28.420 Like the new Supreme Court ruling, you can no longer do it or presidential immunity.

01:43:32.140 So presidential immunity in general, it was presumed to be the case there.

01:43:37.360 There is, however, an argument that you can't even impeach at this point.

01:43:40.660 But I believe the general legal consensus is in order to convict a president for actions conducted while president, he has to be impeached and convicted for those actions first.

01:43:51.200 Nobody, nobody, I think even even the people who don't want to bring it up.

01:43:55.940 I think everybody would agree Barack Obama should not have killed that 16 year old American citizen.

01:44:00.500 And if it was an accident, well, I'm sorry, but if you accidentally run somebody over, you get some kind of penalty, even if it's like a fine.

01:44:07.420 I think, you know, you might get some kind of courts of provision or application of license.

01:44:11.620 I said, look, I'll tell you what.

01:44:14.280 Let's impeach Trump.

01:44:15.520 Do me a favor.

01:44:17.120 Draft articles of impeachment for Barack Obama for the extrajudicial assassination of American citizens and keep it specific to Abdul Rahman Al-Awlaki.

01:44:23.260 Because you want to argue Anwar and the other guys who are jihadis or whatever, but Americans.

01:44:28.100 Fine.

01:44:28.620 Just a 16 year old.

01:44:29.540 He said, no.

01:44:30.300 He says, I don't I'm focused on here and now.

01:44:32.180 And I said, if he's impeached and convicted, we can get criminal charges for a president who murdered an American, even if it was negligence or accidental.

01:44:42.520 He said, listen, I'm concerned about now.

01:44:44.980 It's like, exactly.

01:44:45.600 And you know what?

01:44:46.200 Not a single Republican would do it either. 0.99

01:44:47.820 Because when it comes to the executive authority, what we have learned over the past 50 years since the end of World War Two is every politician in this country will get on their knees and lick the feet of the president and allow them to blow up whatever fucking country they want. 0.97

01:44:59.800 And no member of Congress, no senator. 0.97

01:45:02.300 Well, to be fair, Thomas Massey would probably say no.

01:45:04.360 But they all just allow it to happen. 1.00

01:45:06.400 And it's bullshit. 1.00

01:45:07.340 Yeah. 0.99

01:45:07.580 And so I guess I'm I don't understand why you are so supportive of Trump, because part of his entire government, his entire part of his entire presidency is about expanding the executive power of the president.

01:45:21.640 Like that's the whole Heritage Foundation's whole thing, the imperial presidency.

01:45:24.720 You know, they're they're trying to, you know, increase the amount of impunity that the president has and remove checks and balances, which I think is the ones that the few that did exist, which I think is bad.

01:45:38.180 Like Congress is more supine than it was during the Obama years.

01:45:42.580 Like they're not even protecting their power as a branch.

01:45:45.080 I think they were always pretending.

01:45:47.000 I think it was always always. 0.99

01:45:48.280 It sure seems like it's at a fucking ebb, man. 0.97

01:45:51.240 You know, Republicans right now have a two seat majority. 0.98

01:45:53.320 Like Trump's impounding money that the that the that Congress has, like, already spent.

01:45:59.540 Right.

01:46:00.580 They're.

01:46:01.740 Yeah, it's it's bizarre.

01:46:04.240 So the challenge is you've got two rogue branches, the judiciary and the executive by this argument.

01:46:11.500 I don't I think Trump is applying the language of the executive branch in any way that's beneficial to him to enable to enable himself to do these things.

01:46:19.460 And actually, I think that's what Kristi Noem actually said to me that, you know, they're going to use the language of whatever is codified to try and get these deportations through.

01:46:28.180 The problem is you've got a judiciary that is rogue at the same time.

01:46:31.440 And Congress has abdicated their responsibility for checking either branches.

01:46:35.500 What do you do?

01:46:36.400 You know, I think largely you'll find there's this diehard MAGA base, which is like Trump can do no wrong.

01:46:42.540 You'll find the liberal base saying Trump is clearly everything he's doing is wrong.

01:46:46.000 And then you'll find this like spattered middle of the road of no one's doing what they're supposed to be doing. 1.00

01:46:52.080 And it's just fuck. 0.99

01:46:52.940 It's just pure chaos. 1.00

01:46:54.060 And that's not it's that's not, you know, like Chuck Schumer says, that's Trump.

01:46:57.840 And I'm like, oh, please, it's everybody.

01:47:00.400 You know, the the the the issue then is the the liberal side of things can allow Trump to make his assertions under like the Alien Enemies Act without without challenge.

01:47:09.860 And then Trump steamrolls him.

01:47:11.180 They're not going to do that.

01:47:12.300 Trump could allow the judiciary to enact universal injunctions unconstitutionally and get steamrolled.

01:47:17.880 He's not going to do that.

01:47:19.620 Congress isn't doing anything.

01:47:20.560 So there's no check or balance between either of these branches.

01:47:23.020 And it's just going to come to a point we're in a perpetual state of constitutional crisis until one side finally says.

01:47:30.380 I don't think it matters anymore what what you say at all.

01:47:35.180 I would I would argue that there's I mean, that's what they're currently do.

01:47:38.640 Both sides, both the executive and the judiciary are doing this.

01:47:41.700 I mean, the judiciary like they can authority for for universal injunctions.

01:47:45.380 I to me, what it sounds like is you're participating in the campaign by the executive branch to discredit the judiciary.

01:47:55.520 Now, I'm not going to like go to town, you know, go to the mattresses for like any particular injunction.

01:48:00.620 But like the observation that I'll make is that weakening the judiciary, you know, setting the legal groundwork for why, you know, they can defy any particular court order they want to.

01:48:13.500 Because if it goes against the Trump administration, it's de facto illegal.

01:48:17.560 But they're co-equal.

01:48:18.360 A, and then B, destroying the civil service.

01:48:20.560 Those are just basic authoritarian steps.

01:48:22.920 And that's what Trump is doing.

01:48:24.560 I personally, I'm not like that's not an argument.

01:48:27.480 I'm not as like apocalyptic currently as a lot of really frightened liberals are who are like we're descending into Nazism or whatever.

01:48:36.360 Because I think Trump is like ultimately a lot weaker than that. 0.99

01:48:39.240 And I think he's like kind of too old and dumb to like really do it. 1.00

01:48:42.840 Like I like he's he's losing his mind. 0.99

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01:49:42.260 See, just, you know, I came here from L.A.

01:50:00.640 And like a couple of days ago, he had that truth post about like we need to put 100 percent tariff on on movies, on foreign movies.

01:50:07.660 And then the Hollywood press for like the next four days was like, oh, no.

01:50:12.920 Like, what's what does that mean?

01:50:13.960 What's going to happen? 0.99

01:50:14.940 Like, oh, John Voight has a plan, like all this shit. 0.97

01:50:17.480 And I'm like, do you guys think that he remembers posting that? 0.99

01:50:21.660 Like, the man is the man is like on pills or something.

01:50:24.640 Like, he got a text from John Voight about like, you should do this.

01:50:27.440 He says, we're going to put 100 percent tariff. 0.98

01:50:29.160 One of the fucking cabinet guys goes, we're right on it, sir. 0.99

01:50:32.260 And then they're just waiting for him to forget about it. 0.99

01:50:34.040 Because the idea of putting a tariff on movies doesn't even make physical sense. 0.97

01:50:39.680 They don't come here by fucking boat. 0.97

01:50:41.500 Like, what are you what are you talking about? 1.00

01:50:44.100 The other trying to make sense of like the Mad King's like drool coming out of his mouth.

01:50:49.020 Well, that one for sure, because like what if a movie is based in Africa?

01:50:53.480 You know, it's like Safari featuring Tom Cruise, but you can't do it because you're filming in Africa.

01:50:57.880 It's like, well, and also every every film is, you know, it's like any other product.

01:51:02.060 They're made multinationally, you know, like every Marvel movie.

01:51:04.300 They ship all the footage off to Korea, you know, to do the CGI, right?

01:51:08.340 This is the this is the real argument.

01:51:09.560 I think the issue is the saying has been for a long time that the left takes Trump's Trump literally, but not seriously.

01:51:15.740 And the right takes him seriously, but not literally.

01:51:18.400 So the question is, what does that mean?

01:51:20.660 Like, the question is, what's going to happen from Trump's directive?

01:51:24.180 You can't tariff a movie.

01:51:25.720 Like, how?

01:51:26.960 However, he can find ways to penalize offshoring of CGI or choosing to film Chicago.

01:51:34.460 But in Vancouver, but he's not going to do that because he doesn't have coherent policy about literally anything, even tariffs.

01:51:41.120 The one thing that he like the regular tariffs, right? 0.97

01:51:44.300 The one thing he really cares about, he's just fucking winging it, like saying random shit, doing math that doesn't make any sense, making deals, canceling deals, like just causing chaos. 0.99

01:51:56.160 Because he has no, he has the attention span of a gnat. 0.99

01:51:58.960 The reciprocal tariff stuff where they like did it based on the trade deficit and all that shit. 0.97

01:52:06.420 But it was on the chart.

01:52:08.120 Which is apparently forgotten again.

01:52:08.780 The chart said.

01:52:10.500 You're going to stump for the chart?

01:52:12.160 You're going to back up the chart?

01:52:13.360 Well, you're arguing they didn't argue a thing that was literally on the picture they showed.

01:52:16.460 Oh, yeah, yeah. 0.99

01:52:16.980 The math was very dumb. 0.97

01:52:18.700 The math they presented said including trade imbalance and things like that. 0.99

01:52:23.220 Yeah.

01:52:23.660 So it's like they said, here's our – and then someone did the math and they were like, he basically took existing tariffs and then added in the trade deficit.

01:52:31.280 Yeah.

01:52:31.600 And then gave us a number.

01:52:32.320 So you exist in like an info ecosystem where what he did made sense?

01:52:36.100 Like you hear people saying, oh, this makes sense and you felt that those charts like were ultimately physical?

01:52:42.140 I'm saying – you said the math didn't make sense because he was using the trade deficit and all I said was it said on the chart he showed the trade deficit.

01:52:47.980 Yeah. 0.99

01:52:48.300 Yeah, and that's a stupid way to make a tariff. 0.98

01:52:54.120 I'm not giving you my opinion and I'm giving you a fact point. 0.98

01:52:56.740 Yeah.

01:52:57.120 The policymaking is chaotic and erratic.

01:53:01.300 It has no thought process behind it.

01:53:04.000 So the idea that –

01:53:04.880 That's a something.

01:53:05.380 The idea that Trump – no, that's a judgment on my part.

01:53:08.180 Like – hold on.

01:53:09.540 The media –

01:53:10.460 My point is just the idea that Trump would like look at Hollywood and go, oh, there's like a problem here.

01:53:15.000 What if we disincentivize them from doing – that's not how he –

01:53:18.220 Who operates.

01:53:18.960 I agree.

01:53:19.380 He doesn't actually make –

01:53:20.240 No, he saw it on Fox News.

01:53:21.020 Real policy.

01:53:22.000 He –

01:53:22.300 He's watching Laurie Ingram.

01:53:22.840 He like does loyalty tests.

01:53:24.580 He does – like he misunderstands things.

01:53:27.720 He has a whim and people follow him until he forgets.

01:53:31.760 Do you remember the story on the tariffs where they claimed that Trump was tariffing an island only inhabited by penguins?

01:53:36.000 Mm-hmm, yeah.

01:53:36.720 But you know that's not true, right?

01:53:38.620 Okay.

01:53:39.640 So this is the challenge we face communication-wise.

01:53:42.320 There are a couple islands that operate companies but don't have a living population that we do import from.

01:53:48.220 So Trump imposed a tariff on any region that he could.

01:53:52.120 That was the point, closing loopholes.

01:53:54.320 The corporate press, like Newsweek, CNN, they all – and prominent liberal personalities started running this lie that Donald Trump was tariffing an island with only penguins on it, which is – we call that factual but not truthful.

01:54:06.080 Like there's businesses that are on this island.

01:54:08.860 Fishing refineries and they do ship products to the island as corporations.

01:54:13.720 And then when they're done, they transport them to the United States.

01:54:16.300 Trump wants a tariff on anyone who's trying to use that island loophole. 1.00

01:54:19.160 But instead the media just claimed he was so stupid and didn't think about his plan. 0.99

01:54:23.260 And I'm like, why would you just – why don't you just say you don't like the tariffs? 0.99

01:54:26.720 I don't know why you have to make up that weird story.

01:54:28.660 Well, I mean everything about them was senseless.

01:54:31.880 This was simply the silliest detail without –

01:54:35.420 But that's what discredits the actual – look, I think the universal tariffs were a bad idea.

01:54:40.320 I think selective tariffs on like particular products on nations can make sense, especially like Canada or China.

01:54:45.640 Universal tariffs seemed like a scattershot that was going to cause more problems in the short term.

01:54:50.540 I can't – I can say that. 0.98

01:54:53.080 Nobody fucking cares. 0.98

01:54:54.660 The right goes – interesting point, Tim. 0.99

01:54:56.500 But our problem is the left is lying about what he's doing.

01:54:59.300 And then I go to the left and they go, you're wrong.

01:55:00.900 Our story is right.

01:55:01.720 And I'm like, but that's not true. 0.98

01:55:03.280 It's this shit all over again of the first Trump term of, quote, stop making me defend Trump was the trope. 0.97

01:55:10.040 Where Trump would do something that was like, I wonder why he did that. 0.99

01:55:13.420 The left would then lie about what he did.

01:55:16.060 And when we come out and say, but he didn't do that, they'd say stop defending Trump. 0.99

01:55:19.100 And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? 1.00

01:55:20.700 Like the very fine people hoax, the Shinzo – the Koi fish hoax, the fucking injecting bleach stuff. 1.00

01:55:27.620 It's like, bro, Donald Trump dumped food into a fish pond after Shinzo Abe did. 0.97

01:55:32.160 Why are you trying to make that a negative story?

01:55:33.680 I don't even know what that is talking about there.

01:55:35.600 It's all of these hoaxes.

01:55:37.120 The very fine people hoax?

01:55:38.760 I remember the line, yeah.

01:55:40.800 Never called Nazis fine people.

01:55:42.500 He said there were very fine people on both sides, right? 0.98

01:55:45.340 Except the neo-Nazis and white nationalists who should be condemned totally. 0.78

01:55:48.420 He said that? 1.00

01:55:49.840 Holy shit. 1.00

01:55:53.940 Brother. 1.00

01:55:54.820 I don't live in your bubble, man. 1.00

01:55:56.440 You don't live in the fucking news, dude. 1.00

01:55:58.940 Come the fuck on. 1.00

01:56:00.660 You don't read the fucking news. 1.00

01:56:02.660 This is what fucking blows my mind. 1.00

01:56:05.080 No, I just don't have your – 0.99

01:56:06.340 Snopes.

01:56:06.500 I don't have your obsessions.

01:56:07.400 Trump did not call neo-Nazis and white supremacists very fine people.

01:56:10.400 Bro, it's been almost 10 years and you still think he did. 1.00

01:56:13.360 That's what's fucked up. 0.96

01:56:14.040 I didn't say I think he did. 1.00

01:56:15.340 I just don't know what you're talking about because I don't listen to your shit. 1.00

01:56:19.420 It's not about listening to my shit, bro. 1.00

01:56:20.700 It's reading the news. 1.00

01:56:21.620 It's fact-checking.

01:56:22.620 Bro, I got Snopes for you.

01:56:23.700 They're not a conservative publication.

01:56:25.300 Even Snopes was like, guys, stop saying this.

01:56:27.180 I don't know why you're shouting at me.

01:56:28.220 I was just asking you to explain.

01:56:29.780 Because the issue we have – and I apologize because I'm not trying to shout at you.

01:56:33.200 I'm shouting an exasperation that we've had two liberals on in the past two weeks who didn't know this.

01:56:38.540 And I'm just like, for the love of all this holy – I just – all I do all day is I read probably 500 news articles every single day from CNN, the New York Times, MSNBC, and all their aggregates.

01:56:49.500 And then liberals come on and they believe things that were debunked eight years ago.

01:56:53.220 I didn't say I believed it.

01:56:53.960 I was just asking what you were talking about.

01:56:55.220 You didn't know this.

01:56:57.060 Yeah, I don't know everything that you know.

01:56:59.040 But this is what Biden launched his campaign on.

01:57:01.980 Biden made a public announcement to launch his presidency in 2020 off of this lie.

01:57:06.100 And you didn't know that four years – five years later.

01:57:09.780 I don't know why you're getting on me about this, but –

01:57:13.620 Again, I apologize.

01:57:14.680 I'm not trying to get on you.

01:57:15.780 It's the exasperation largely with liberals.

01:57:20.620 Like, this is – when this happened, and like the Covington kids hoax, you remember that one?

01:57:26.800 Kids on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial back – you know, this is seven years ago.

01:57:31.080 Oh, and the kid that was smirking or whatever.

01:57:32.920 The Native American guy goes up in his face banging a drum.

01:57:35.140 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:57:35.780 And CNN gets sued over it.

01:57:38.580 All these outlets, all these journalists were pushing this lie.

01:57:40.920 And I was just thinking to myself –

01:57:42.760 You know, Resistance 1.0 stuff was cringy, sure, yeah.

01:57:45.060 But, I mean, here we are today.

01:57:46.640 We had a journalist on.

01:57:47.680 She's a Brooklyn journalist.

01:57:48.660 And I thought she was very nice.

01:57:49.620 I don't mean to be disrespectful.

01:57:50.920 But she was like, no, Trump did this.

01:57:52.900 And we're just like, I don't understand how we've come to this point where there are so many stories like the Penguin Island hoax,

01:58:00.140 Very Fine People hoax, Covington injecting bleach, Maryland man.

01:58:05.120 It's like the media just lies and the liberals believe all of it. 0.99

01:58:07.860 Look, man, so I'll tell you what it looks like from my side, which is that it looks like Trump does stuff that is either completely fucking moronic or completely indefensible, right? 0.99

01:58:19.880 And then you guys find – 0.98

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01:59:20.280 Movement that inspires.

01:59:22.480 One detail, right, where you reinterpret or you find a, you know, a place where, like, oh, the liberal media went too far.

01:59:30.820 Yeah, sure, whatever.

01:59:32.100 And then, like, harp on that one little point forever.

01:59:36.000 And then miss, like, the larger thing that's happening to distract from.

01:59:40.900 In the same way that, you know, again, we were talking about Rumesa Osterik, and it's like, was it legally possible?

01:59:45.620 And, like, blah, blah, blah.

01:59:46.340 And, like, what's the narrow legal justification when it's like, do we want to be a country where, you know, you can come here and speak your mind or not?

01:59:52.760 Um, so, like, this is, this guy.

01:59:58.480 I don't want to talk about Brian Tyler Cohen.

02:00:00.260 You know who he is?

02:00:01.060 Yeah, of course.

02:00:01.700 But let's talk about something else.

02:00:03.300 Do we have to talk about what some other guy who's not me said?

02:00:05.640 I'm not talking about what he said.

02:00:06.660 Okay.

02:00:07.140 I'm making a point where he said, you guys harp on one thing.

02:00:10.480 Sure.

02:00:10.940 Okay.

02:00:12.540 This guy, David Pakman as well, and many of the other most prominent liberal podcasts.

02:00:18.180 There's, I won't defend any of, I won't defend any of these people.

02:00:20.880 And that's fine.

02:00:21.660 I'm only bringing this up because you made the point that you guys find one thing and then harp on that.

02:00:27.400 I don't.

02:00:28.040 I, this is, I don't.

02:00:29.520 Look, dude, I'm just, I'm just a little bored of this, like, sort of 10 minutes of conversation because I'm like, I don't say this stuff.

02:00:35.660 And, like, it feels like this is a thing to, like, fill air with rather than talking about what's actually happening.

02:00:42.040 You just accused me of doing something.

02:00:43.640 It's to complain about what the liberal media says.

02:00:44.840 Okay.

02:00:45.240 Okay.

02:00:45.840 Should I just say?

02:00:48.180 Or should I have a conversation?

02:00:50.740 Make your points or show.

02:00:51.480 It's cool.

02:00:52.380 What we've been seeing prominently, there are three areas in the podcasting space.

02:00:59.480 There is the liberal, like this guy, where every single video he makes is Trump.

02:01:05.480 Literally every single one.

02:01:06.920 Not to be fair, figuratively, because, like, every 10th video might be one other person.

02:01:11.280 All just generic screenshots of Trump.

02:01:13.120 Hey, look, Cory Booker.

02:01:14.020 And nothing else.

02:01:15.680 And he gets 200 million views per month.

02:01:18.480 Okay.

02:01:18.860 I do a show where we talk about whatever the news may be, which includes AI, solar storms.

02:01:23.540 We talked about power outages, India, Pakistan.

02:01:25.800 Talk about everything.

02:01:26.700 Trump comes up prominently.

02:01:28.200 He's the president.

02:01:29.060 But we don't defend literally everything he does.

02:01:31.300 But you come and say, you guys do it as if I am and I'm not.

02:01:34.520 Oh, okay, yeah.

02:01:35.460 My concern is, when I look at the prominent left podcasts, they do.

02:01:40.720 There's a distinction between the left and the right that I think is important.

02:01:43.620 The left calls the right everyone from anarchists to neo-Nazis, which clearly don't align.

02:01:50.040 It makes no sense.

02:01:50.720 There's sovereign citizen anarchists with, I mean, nebulous political views beyond that, called the right wing.

02:01:59.380 There's neo-Nazis called the right wing.

02:02:00.340 You don't think you caricature the left at all?

02:02:01.760 You don't think you lump them all in together?

02:02:03.080 You don't think you engage in, you know, the same?

02:02:06.020 We do not.

02:02:06.520 Same, okay.

02:02:07.320 For instance, we often make the distinction that leftists are pro-guns and liberals are not.

02:02:11.920 We recognize the distinction between a progressive and a moderate liberal, or like Gavin Newsom and, say, an Antifa protester.

02:02:18.340 They're very distinct.

02:02:20.080 Yeah.

02:02:20.380 And so we always draw that distinction.

02:02:24.060 Liberals, where I will lump them together, do not.

02:02:27.180 So the one—

02:02:27.760 So this is like—but you literally are, because you're saying that, like, liberals do that to the right.

02:02:35.260 I am sitting here—you'd probably define me as a liberal or a leftist or progressive or whatever you want to say.

02:02:40.940 But, like, I also believe myself to have a nuanced view of the variety of political positions on the right, right?

02:02:49.900 And the point I'm bringing up is not pertaining to you as an individual, because we understand that it could be granular.

02:02:54.320 The point I'm making is, say, ADL, for instance, and other left-aligned political organizations use the phrase the right to represent anything not left.

02:03:06.260 I wouldn't define the ADL as a left political organization at this point, but—

02:03:10.660 Perhaps I would agree with—yeah.

02:03:12.280 Like, at this point, it's very weird.

02:03:13.520 I mean, yeah, the politics of—to me, it's less about Israel.

02:03:19.980 It's more about what's happening in Gaza specifically and, like, that, you know.

02:03:25.120 But, yeah, it's the—and they've been, like, bizarrely sort of pro-Trump in all these, like, weird ways.

02:03:32.380 Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, they came out—

02:03:34.200 It's Israel. 0.51

02:03:34.640 The way they were, like, tweeting about Elon's Heil Hitler salute, going, don't worry about this too much.

02:03:40.780 Like, it's fine.

02:03:41.740 Like, that's very odd.

02:03:43.180 It's Israel. 0.51

02:03:44.260 You know—

02:03:44.660 Elon has been pro-Israel.

02:03:46.660 He's been, you know, making statements in favor of them.

02:03:50.160 And so I think—I think, especially when we're talking about, like, Romesa and all that stuff, Israel is the issue.

02:03:56.160 The reason why they wanted to ban TikTok is because of Israel.

02:03:59.220 And when they come out and make these arguments about anti-Semitism, they're not talking about any other bigotry or racism.

02:04:04.640 So I'll agree with you on the ADL thing.

02:04:07.300 As of now, they're leaning more into Trump camp because Trump is pro-Israel. 0.97

02:04:11.240 Yeah, you know, the politics of, like—there's some really weird shit happening with politics. 0.94

02:04:17.420 When they go after a student protester, right, because I look at Trump's coalition and go, 0.99

02:04:27.000 there's a lot—he's got a lot of fucking anti-Semites on his side for sure. 0.99

02:04:30.020 Like, all the anti-Semites are definitely Trump fans. 0.99

02:04:31.820 But so are the, like, fascist Israeli pro-Israeli people. 0.99

02:04:36.860 The anti-Semitic right hates Trump. 0.98

02:04:39.820 Go watch their live streams.

02:04:41.280 I don't want to say their names because it just invites brigading for either of us.

02:04:45.540 But the white nationalist Christian right wanted Trump to lose.

02:04:51.440 In fact, they were pro-Biden.

02:04:52.960 And not because they thought Biden was good.

02:04:56.260 They—we got—we get the—so here's why I try to be careful on this matter because you get it.

02:05:01.400 You're going to get trolled.

02:05:03.460 You're going to get death threats. 1.00

02:05:04.180 You're going to get blasted.

02:05:05.520 We were getting tons of chats on IRL where they were like,

02:05:09.120 I would rather Biden win because at least he is bad on Israel.

02:05:13.240 That's the statement these people were making.

02:05:15.360 And so there is this—

02:05:16.260 There's some who feel that way, yeah.

02:05:18.240 Watch some of their streams and how they talk about Trump.

02:05:21.340 Trump's pro-Israel.

02:05:22.260 They're mad. 0.75

02:05:23.120 They're very mad.

02:05:24.600 Yeah.

02:05:25.760 It's just—it's sort of weirdly scrambled.

02:05:28.640 It is.

02:05:29.060 Have you seen—

02:05:29.680 Because there's definitely also anti-Semites in his coalition, like the people at that rally.

02:05:36.500 Have you seen—let me see if I can find this.

02:05:38.940 There's a meme.

02:05:40.220 Here we go.

02:05:41.400 What is this flag?

02:05:42.300 Let me show you this picture.

02:05:43.920 This is the new horseshoe theory.

02:05:46.260 Wait, what—sorry.

02:05:49.800 Oh, left, right.

02:05:51.900 I'm confused as to the axis.

02:05:54.180 So there's Ukraine, Russia, and Israel, Palestine. 0.68

02:05:56.500 And then it's like on the left, the moderate liberal types are pro-Israel.

02:06:00.640 But then from the moderate right to the conservatives are pro-Israel.

02:06:04.580 But the far right are pro-Palestine.

02:06:06.720 And the centrist—the more moderate—I shouldn't say moderate, but the left to the far left are pro-Palestine.

02:06:12.400 Then you have on the Ukraine-Russia axis, moderate conservatives are pro-Ukraine, but largely the conservative to the far right is pro-Russia.

02:06:21.900 And then on the left, it's largely pro-Ukraine, except for the far left, that's pro-Russia.

02:06:25.300 They call this the new horseshoe theory as a joke.

02:06:28.340 Yeah, and it's the problem with nationalism, you know, when it gets involved in the political system of a country.

02:06:35.820 It, like, scrambles everything, and you get, like, all these weird alliances.

02:06:39.220 And it becomes very hard to parse out, like, who's connected to who.

02:06:43.900 So when you guys were being paid by the Russian government, you didn't know.

02:06:47.580 We never got paid by the Russian government.

02:06:49.480 But the Russian government paid Tenet Media, and they paid you.

02:06:52.520 They didn't.

02:06:53.240 They didn't pay you.

02:06:54.320 Because, yeah, I wanted to know.

02:06:56.420 And it never got paid by the Russian government.

02:06:58.100 Oh, but the—

02:06:58.800 The case, as far as I know, has been dropped.

02:07:01.320 But I thought that you were making statements like, oh, we were the victims of being—

02:07:05.380 Should this prove to be true, we were defrauded and victimized. 0.98

02:07:08.720 But I guess the challenge is right now, the Trump administration has no priority in going over a story they don't give a shit about, but the Biden admin dropped it. 0.97

02:07:17.140 Oh, okay. 0.97

02:07:18.160 Yeah.

02:07:18.460 Oh, they didn't go forward on the prosecution.

02:07:20.980 So I don't know exactly what I can say.

02:07:25.320 And this is what the challenge is, is that my understanding is during the Biden administration, they dropped it.

02:07:31.780 I don't know because we're not party to anything having to do with it.

02:07:36.040 But, like, when they were, like—I saw a—there was a thing in the Guardian about someone had, like, told, like, RT or whatever, had, like, asked Tenant Media, oh, could we do some, you know, anti-Ukraine story?

02:07:50.640 And then Tenant Media's like, oh, yes, one of our people will get on that.

02:07:54.020 Was not RT, but the evidence has never been released.

02:07:56.520 It's been denied.

02:07:58.000 So what we—

02:07:58.460 Yeah, of course it's been denied, but, you know—

02:08:00.040 Well, I mean, but this is the challenge, right?

02:08:01.080 But you were doing content that's, like, broadly consonant with what the Russian government wanted to be said about Ukraine, right?

02:08:08.420 I mean, like—

02:08:09.860 This podcast that we're on right now was licensed to Tenant Media.

02:08:13.080 Mm-hmm.

02:08:13.860 We—

02:08:14.420 Which was being paid by the Russian government.

02:08:15.900 That's not true.

02:08:17.200 Okay, I think it probably was, but—

02:08:18.840 I mean, maybe.

02:08:19.420 They dropped it, and there's no evidence it was ever true.

02:08:21.700 I don't know how you resolve that circumstance, but I'll put it this way.

02:08:25.000 This podcast that we're currently on right now, we host a variety of subjects from, like, we did one on polar shifts.

02:08:30.780 We did one on theology.

02:08:32.760 We did one on aliens.

02:08:34.120 We did one on cryptozoology.

02:08:35.840 None of that had anything necessarily to do with politics.

02:08:38.920 We did talk Israel-Palestine.

02:08:41.160 Dave Rubin, for instance, had a contract with them for licensing, I think, for half a year, where he did review—he did reaction content to viral videos, like a woman getting pulled over because she had too much milk in her car or some weird shit like that.

02:08:54.240 So it was a particularly strange circumstance.

02:08:57.040 The narrative that emerged from it is largely fake.

02:08:59.120 Like, so this is a show that is owned by me, has been owned by me for a decade.

02:09:06.140 We've produced for years, and a Tennessee company approached us to buy a license for it.

02:09:11.600 Non-exclusive, meaning we distributed wherever we want, but they also wanted to live stream it.

02:09:15.520 They had no say or control in anything we had to do, and they bought a license.

02:09:21.420 The Fox News lied about it.

02:09:24.380 The left continues to lie about it.

02:09:26.360 I think it's largely just—I'm not going to get conspiratorial on what happened because I honestly don't know.

02:09:32.000 The case has completely been dropped as far as I can tell.

02:09:34.000 I suppose I could put in a request for the Trump DOJ to investigate why they did it and why they dropped it.

02:09:40.000 Yeah.

02:09:40.720 But I mean—so let's look about what you have right now is an indictment of two Russians without any charges to Americans with no evidence that anything actually happened.

02:09:49.240 I mean, if you want it to be true, you can say it is, but there's no evidence anything actually happened.

02:09:52.400 Do you think Russia should have invaded Ukraine? You think that was good? No? 0.60

02:09:57.540 No, I think Russia's a bunch of—I think the Russian government—I say this if you're like China. 1.00

02:10:01.760 The governments are the shitheads. 0.99

02:10:03.180 I think Putin is a despot who has used manipulative means like, I don't know, killing his political opponents to retain power. 1.00

02:10:09.960 Yeah.

02:10:10.540 I think he shouldn't have invaded Ukraine.

02:10:12.280 I think Russia lost the soft power battle and resorted to violence because they were losing an expansive cultural victory from the West. 0.72

02:10:19.760 And I think the outcome was inevitable to anybody in military because Russia's never going to give up the Black Sea. 0.99

02:10:26.280 But I think, you know, I think Russia's a bunch of shitheads. 0.99

02:10:29.140 I just don't think we should be involved in it. 0.99

02:10:31.160 But that's not even like a thing we talk about on the regular.

02:10:34.140 A lot of people on the left latched onto one video I did where Germany accused Ukraine of bombing Nord Stream

02:10:39.500 and accused a Ukrainian citizen of criminal actions against NATO, to which I said,

02:10:45.260 if this was sanctioned by Ukraine, that makes them an enemy of ours.

02:10:48.660 I mean, but let's be literal.

02:10:49.980 If the Ukrainian government sanctioned an attack on NATO resources, that would literally make them an enemy of this country.

02:10:56.360 People took that and they're like, aha!

02:10:58.520 And I'm like, but that's a fact statement.

02:11:00.980 Germany accused this Ukrainian national of bombing Nord Stream.

02:11:04.580 Germany is NATO.

02:11:05.720 What am I supposed to say?

02:11:07.480 So, you know, the long story short is I look forward to anybody digging up what happened with the tenant thing.

02:11:14.840 It sounds like you lucked out.

02:11:15.820 That's great.

02:11:16.280 If it was dropped and like nobody.

02:11:17.640 But it sounds like there's no case.

02:11:18.580 There's no story.

02:11:19.060 Yeah, that's great for you.

02:11:20.600 But why would it have been good or bad in the long run?

02:11:23.640 Well, it could have been bad if the case had gone forward and it could have turned up, you know, some...

02:11:27.840 I want it to keep going!

02:11:29.100 Okay, do you really?

02:11:31.380 I wouldn't want it to keep going.

02:11:32.480 I would be like, oh, sick, give me the money.

02:11:34.800 You know what I mean?

02:11:35.320 Like, look, one of the reasons I wanted to come, I was just curious to see your operation here, you know?

02:11:41.140 You're like...

02:11:41.760 The money that we were paid by 10 is completely negligible.

02:11:44.860 And this is what a lot of people don't realize.

02:11:47.100 I don't know how much you were getting paid for your shows.

02:11:49.040 I mean, your shows were pretty big.

02:11:49.940 Yeah, that was in the days that cable still existed, you know, before it was all destroyed by...

02:11:54.900 But, I mean, we do ad read sometimes for 50 grand.

02:11:58.940 Yeah. 0.92

02:11:59.520 So when the story came out, the insinuation was that, like, oh, holy shit, Tim Pool is getting $100,000 to license a show.

02:12:06.360 Well, that was literally printed in the press, that it was $100,000. 0.92

02:12:09.440 The indictment said it.

02:12:10.980 But I have no problem saying, like, yeah, yeah, we got a license for $100,000.

02:12:14.180 It was a market rate negotiated by lawyers.

02:12:16.540 That's why Dave Rubin and several others in it negotiated the exact same rates independent of us.

02:12:23.160 You have to take a look at, like, for instance, this show is the, on average, seventh biggest live stream in the country.

02:12:30.120 So, like, what do you think you're going to sell an ad for on the seventh biggest live show in the country that pulls in hundreds of thousands, you know, between on a low day, $200,000, but maybe upwards of $500,000 for one episode?

02:12:41.040 Well, with a two-hour show, you could probably get in four or five ad reads at $10,000 each.

02:12:46.700 So you're looking at, for one show, selling ads upwards of $50,000.

02:12:51.820 And if we do premium buys, like Adam Conover, he's a big get, you know, a clothing company wants to sponsor it because they know people are going to want to watch.

02:12:59.020 Oh, yeah.

02:12:59.580 We go to them and say, if you want an ad read, it's $50,000.

02:13:01.680 Yeah.

02:13:01.940 So singular episodes could actually run as high as $250,000.

02:13:04.520 But every episode of your show being worth $100,000, like, how is an episode, how is a two-hour podcast of people talking worth $100,000 license fee?

02:13:14.880 How are they going to make more than $100,000 on it on the other end?

02:13:18.860 It sounds like a crazy number.

02:13:20.600 It's pretty standard, right?

02:13:21.760 If we're doing a show that is routinely averaging the seventh biggest in the nation, when someone comes to you to make a licensing agreement, they're saying, I can make your show bigger and make more money than you could on your own.

02:13:33.020 That's why Joe Rogan did the deal with Spotify.

02:13:35.140 Like, how is Spotify going to make more than Joe Rogan did?

02:13:37.380 Yeah, but this is just some, but that's like a platform.

02:13:39.580 This is like a company that's just licensing it.

02:13:41.580 What were they doing with it?

02:13:43.140 They were airing it on their platform to-

02:13:45.500 Their platform, just like tenantmedia.com?

02:13:47.620 No, not even on their website, just on YouTube and Rumble.

02:13:49.860 They were just-

02:13:50.740 So they were just re-airing it on YouTube and Rumble, and it was going to be worth $100,000 an episode to them?

02:13:56.820 It already was generated-

02:13:58.580 Some Russian guys show up, and they're like, we will give you $100,000, and you're like, ah, this is legit.

02:14:02.920 Russia was never involved.

02:14:05.120 So a conservative personality who's been in the space for a decade who worked for the Blaze Media said, I've got funding for a startup.

02:14:13.020 We want to license one of your shows.

02:14:14.740 I licensed a discovery.

02:14:16.560 Should I- 0.99

02:14:16.840 Look, I take tons of dumb money. 0.99

02:14:18.400 I've done dumb money gigs before. 0.95

02:14:20.040 I'm like, I don't know why people are giving me this much money for this, but all right, if you want to do it.

02:14:23.340 I don't know if you don't have to say if you don't want to, but what's the biggest sponsorship you've ever gotten?

02:14:26.120 Uh, the biggest sponsorship.

02:14:29.160 I just, if you ask me in three months, there's something I could tell you about, because it's too recent.

02:14:38.980 Um, but, uh-

02:14:41.080 We've done one ad read for $100,000 before.

02:14:43.440 Yeah.

02:14:43.760 And so here's the business proposition.

02:14:45.400 Someone comes to me and says, we want to license your show.

02:14:47.240 I say, okay, right now we're doing, I don't know, maybe like $10,000, $20,000 per episode.

02:14:52.540 Yeah.

02:14:52.960 Um, why would I license this show to you when I have full control of it right now?

02:14:57.100 They say, we'll give you $50,000.

02:14:58.440 I say, eh, in a year, I think we'll be doing $50,000, so why do a deal with you if I'm a year going to lose that money?

02:15:04.600 Yeah.

02:15:04.840 So then they say, what do you think you're going to generate?

02:15:06.580 I say, okay, well, we're planning on expanding.

02:15:08.960 We're doing live shows.

02:15:10.460 Excuse me.

02:15:11.500 Sometimes we do special events.

02:15:12.960 And I think the biggest ad read we've ever done was $100,000.

02:15:16.600 We've done some that were $80,000, some that were $50,000.

02:15:19.020 So if we're going to get.

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02:16:30.100 Give up on that and lose the ability to negotiate those terms.

02:16:34.840 You're going to pay a premium.

02:16:36.740 They say, okay, we're going to pay a premium because we bet in one year we're going to make more than we're paying you now.

02:16:42.060 I say I'll make the deal because I'm going to make more now and not have to worry about doing development and hiring people.

02:16:47.760 That's any license agreement anyone does with anything.

02:16:50.420 Spotify doesn't actually have Joe Rogan's podcast exclusive to Spotify.

02:16:54.100 Joe Rogan's podcast is on all platforms.

02:16:56.380 But they paid him, I think the number they gave was like $250 million for the latest up.

02:17:00.000 Because they're saying, Joe, we are confident we can sell ads better than you and we will make more than $250 million.

02:17:06.280 So we will pay you that.

02:17:07.080 Yeah, there's just a huge difference between Spotify, the largest audio platform in the world, and people who are rebroadcasting it on YouTube.

02:17:15.960 It's just like it makes less sense.

02:17:18.840 But that's fine.

02:17:20.060 I mean, take the money.

02:17:21.880 I was just like, you know, I wish I could get a foreign government to sponsor my show, then I could have a bigger show.

02:17:27.080 I don't, and I never did.

02:17:28.960 Never did.

02:17:31.200 So I guess the issue is Blaze Media, right?

02:17:35.320 American company, American personality says we're launching a company.

02:17:38.720 We're going to license your rate at a market standard that a lawyer negotiated non-exclusive.

02:17:44.080 And then the government came out with an indictment and then dropped it almost immediately.

02:17:49.040 Yeah.

02:17:49.760 Why would they do that?

02:17:52.320 Yeah, I mean, well, I guess they were about to be out of power.

02:17:54.820 They thought it maybe couldn't keep going.

02:17:57.160 Why wouldn't they just release some evidence or do something?

02:18:00.040 Yeah, it's a good question.

02:18:01.100 I was just curious to hear you talk about it because it's like the, you know, when I told people I was doing the show,

02:18:06.200 the only thing anybody said to me was like, oh, that was the guy who was paid by the Russian government.

02:18:11.760 And, oh, the beanie guy.

02:18:13.040 That's it.

02:18:14.140 Would you concede the paid by the Russian government thing is unproven?

02:18:19.780 What evidence is there?

02:18:20.900 Yeah, I mean, I was just like, I read all the articles when it came out.

02:18:26.160 I didn't follow the case.

02:18:26.900 So I guess I would look into it.

02:18:28.400 This does exemplify, I think, the problem left in the right house currently, right?

02:18:32.120 You've said several times, rather insinuating it directly, that we intentionally took money from a foreign power.

02:18:38.200 I was just curious to hear you talk about it.

02:18:41.680 Right, so the issue I see is liberals largely don't, I'm not saying you, online, the argument is always, aha, Russia, which was never accused of us.

02:18:52.200 We were reached, the feds reached out to us for victim statements and asked us to help go up against them and provide assistance against the literal Russians that they accused.

02:19:03.300 We agreed and then they dropped it.

02:19:04.660 So I don't understand what happened other than the liberals' side of things in the podcast have largely run with a narrative that never happened and used it as a smear against my companies.

02:19:14.300 I want to be that kind of victim.

02:19:15.980 That's a great kind of victim to be.

02:19:18.200 Well, I mean.

02:19:18.820 Get like a million bucks.

02:19:20.500 If that was the story.

02:19:21.160 Oh, no!

02:19:22.300 Make a statement about how hurt you got.

02:19:23.980 If that was the story.

02:19:24.980 Right now, the only story that we know of is a media startup paid a license fee that was a standard market rate for one of the biggest podcasts in the country.

02:19:32.900 That's it.

02:19:33.760 And that's why I said, if it is true, we were defrauded into, you know, like we were lied to.

02:19:39.720 This was never part of the terms of any agreement.

02:19:42.580 We never, I've never accepted money from any foreign governments.

02:19:45.460 Or anything like that.

02:19:47.340 I think largely what we end up with is a political vector for liberals to disregard the points we make on our show.

02:19:52.980 Regardless still, Timcast IRL is the biggest live show in the country.

02:19:59.040 It was the seventh biggest.

02:20:00.820 The Culture War seventh.

02:20:02.180 Oh, I see.

02:20:03.520 They're different shows.

02:20:04.360 But this is just like a Friday show, right?

02:20:06.100 The Culture War was licensed to Tenet.

02:20:09.500 But Timcast IRL and the Tim Pool Daily News show were not.

02:20:14.500 Got it.

02:20:14.860 I think you record those in this room.

02:20:17.420 Everything's recorded here.

02:20:18.480 Yeah.

02:20:19.140 And I will caveat when I said the biggest live show.

02:20:22.000 Obviously, there are live streamers who do like chats who are bigger than us and everything.

02:20:25.500 But in terms of like a news produced podcast, we're number one.

02:20:30.540 Crowder, depending on the metric you want to use, Stephen Crowder is a comedy news sketch show.

02:20:36.000 He's bigger than us by like 10,000, you know, per day or whatever, which is tremendous.

02:20:41.840 Oh, got it.

02:20:42.020 We got this problem with classifying shows in Hollywood.

02:20:46.440 I always get beaten the Emmys by some talk show that's pretending to be a best hosted informational nonfiction series or special. 0.96

02:20:57.260 And then fucking David Letterman's talk show would crowd us out for the nominations. 0.96

02:21:01.280 We'd get it bigger. 1.00

02:21:01.640 Fucking category abuse. 0.99

02:21:02.920 But what I will say is that'll follow you anywhere you go on the internet. 0.99

02:21:05.340 Hard numbers throw my opinion away.

02:21:06.960 We were number two of all streams only beaten up by Vatican Watch.

02:21:10.540 So with with all the lies, the smears, the manipulation, you know, we're hitting, you know, 800K a day bigger than all the cable shows.

02:21:20.560 So they can say whatever they want about me, I guess.

02:21:22.420 The people watch the show.

02:21:23.460 We give them the facts.

02:21:24.080 We give them the documents.

02:21:24.780 We show them the articles.

02:21:25.920 We don't do any story without pulling up the article from any source, which includes The New York Times.

02:21:30.560 And then people watch.

02:21:32.080 And I think this is the challenge I brought up as my final statement.

02:21:35.200 I know we're going to we'll try and hear the challenge that I typically find when we bring on liberals in the show,

02:21:40.080 when they do rarely come.

02:21:41.480 Not the culture war.

02:21:42.180 That's a different.

02:21:43.020 But for IRL, liberals largely say no, because every story we do is predicated upon Newsweek or CNN or The New York Times or even sometimes MSNBC.

02:21:53.580 And there's a problem that many liberals end up having.

02:21:56.800 I'll give a shout to Luke Beasley or Hunter Avalon is a good example.

02:22:00.720 When they make claims asserting like things like, you know, Donald Trump called neo-Nazis very fine people.

02:22:06.240 And then we just pull up the article and say, hey, it didn't happen.

02:22:08.140 And then what do they do?

02:22:09.240 They end up with a viral clip where it's like they were wrong about something.

02:22:12.520 And that's that's that's that ends up being the principal issue for why I think liberals don't come on this show.

02:22:17.300 Well, it's also you you tape in West Virginia in studio.

02:22:21.440 It's like hard to fly everybody out.

02:22:24.060 Yeah, but it's sometimes first class.

02:22:26.300 Oh, you flew me out first class.

02:22:27.700 It was really nice.

02:22:28.220 Travel was it was it was really nice, man.

02:22:31.300 But but the the travel was like I got I got like four hours of sleep last night.

02:22:35.780 I'm like, man, this was this was rough getting out here.

02:22:37.680 It's like hard to I went like out of my way to come on because I was just curious to come on and see what you do and like meet the weirdest guy on the Internet, you know, the weirdest.

02:22:45.960 Yeah, you're you're you're I know.

02:22:47.920 I love it.

02:22:48.540 I love it.

02:22:49.100 I appreciate that.

02:22:50.100 I, you know, whatever we are, whatever we do, I got Magic the Gathering, I got skateboarding, but to be fair, we're an hour and a half outside of D.C.

02:22:57.740 So it's not easy, but it's not the hardest.

02:23:00.340 Yeah.

02:23:00.480 I don't know.

02:23:01.040 I don't want I know you got a hard stop.

02:23:02.420 So if you're.

02:23:03.260 Yeah.

02:23:03.460 Yeah.

02:23:03.620 No, we should.

02:23:04.100 We should probably wrap it up.

02:23:05.120 It's on kind of an equivocal note, but I thought you were fantastic.

02:23:09.540 Oh, I appreciate it, man.

02:23:10.820 I had a I had a good time and it was fun mixing it up.

02:23:14.560 Absolutely, man.

02:23:15.120 Where can people find you?

02:23:15.800 Uh, so I do a podcast called Factually that, you know, it's a lot like you were explaining to me your different shows.

02:23:21.060 It's all on one YouTube channel.

02:23:22.600 I do a podcast called a podcast called Factually.

02:23:25.580 I do monologues that have no name.

02:23:27.600 It's on YouTube.

02:23:28.940 Uh, the name of the podcast feed where all that stuff is, is Factually.

02:23:32.140 And, um, I'm in, uh, Charleston, South Carolina, uh, doing comedy at the Wits End Comedy Club this weekend.

02:23:38.040 Um, if people want to come out, uh, I think we still got some tickets and, uh,

02:23:42.080 We are airing this a week later, though. 0.99

02:23:43.300 Oh, fuck, man. 0.99

02:23:44.200 Okay, well, air that and you just missed it. 1.00

02:23:47.280 Tomorrow, you're going to be sent.

02:23:48.460 Is that what it is?

02:23:49.000 Tomorrow, yes.

02:23:49.980 I'm, yes.

02:23:50.620 So by the time people watch this, it'll have happened.

02:23:52.040 It'll be too late.

02:23:52.940 So you can't see me in Charleston.

02:23:54.680 And then I'm about to announce a bunch of other dates.

02:23:56.720 The only dates that are currently up right now are Oklahoma and Brea, California,

02:23:59.740 if people want to go to adamconover.net.

02:24:01.300 There's going to be more.

02:24:02.200 In June, I'll have a whole fall tour up.

02:24:04.180 But, um, yeah, people can follow me there if they want to come see me live.

02:24:06.960 Brother, you've had the best hair in media the whole time, and you still do.

02:24:10.880 Thanks for coming, man.

02:24:11.600 I appreciate it.

02:24:12.000 I really appreciate it, Tim.

02:24:12.900 Thanks so much.

02:24:13.300 All right, everybody.

02:24:13.880 Thanks for hanging out.

02:24:14.620 Follow me on X on Instagram at TimCast.

02:24:16.400 We'll see you all next time.

The Culture War - Tim Pool - May 16, 2025

Tim Pool VS Adam Conover DEBATE ｜ The Culture War Podcast

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