The Culture War - Tim Pool - Tim Pool VS Sam Seder DEBATE

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00:01:21.980 Oh, thank you. That's a good one. I like it. He's got his own beanie.

00:01:26.100 That's right.

00:01:26.760 20 years?

00:01:27.960 What's that?

00:01:28.540 20 years. Is that?

00:01:29.560 20 year anniversary. This is actually a gift for you.

00:01:35.520 Oh, right on.

00:01:36.320 There you go.

00:01:36.840 Yeah. We'll put it. I'll put it on the shelf. See, I'll like the weird knickknacks that I have.

00:01:41.220 Well, that's actually for your baby. Oh, thank you very much.

00:01:45.020 Congratulations. I understand that you're expecting. Is that right?

00:01:48.820 Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nervous.

00:01:51.740 I hope you're getting sleep.

00:01:53.020 I think I got six hours tonight.

00:01:56.280 Well, I'm saying, is your baby born already?

00:01:59.400 No, no, no, no. Coming soon.

00:02:01.020 I'm talking about when your child comes.

00:02:02.340 Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, what little sleep I already get probably will be less.

00:02:06.200 All right. Well, there you go.

00:02:08.260 Right on, man. So let's we'll start light.

00:02:10.700 What do you think is going to happen? I mean, the election is is is Tuesday, but people are already voting.

00:02:15.360 No, wait, wait, wait. We got to talk about what am I doing here?

00:02:18.600 Sure, sure. I was going to start light, but you can go with whatever you want.

00:02:21.420 No, I mean, it's light to me. But like what? I thought I was banned.

00:02:27.380 Didn't you say I was banned and blacklisted?

00:02:29.720 Maybe. I don't I don't I don't I don't know the specifics. You have to there's something that I can send you a link.

00:02:36.780 But there's I mean, I got like I just I teed it up here.

00:02:41.120 It's hard for me to remember verbatim everything I said, but I got here.

00:02:46.440 I would I would say.

00:02:48.620 Oh, I mean, you pretty specifically banned.

00:02:51.780 I say no, Sam Seder at all.

00:02:53.200 Well, I think so. Here, wait a second.

00:02:54.940 Sam Seder is blacklisted by a lot of podcasts.

00:03:00.080 Yeah, I don't know. I say I'm not exaggerating.

00:03:02.600 This is not a joke. Yes, there are many large podcasts that have outright said they will never work with him and has nothing to do with being afraid to debate him.

00:03:09.880 Sam Seder is off the list. 0.99

00:03:11.360 This guy is a manipulative, lying con man. 0.99

00:03:15.220 I mean, that's pretty strong stuff. 0.99

00:03:17.120 My confusion comes from did I say I would never have you on anything to do with him?

00:03:22.020 And that's why Sam Seder makes all these videos and he folks on drama.

00:03:27.820 I mean, the man's obsession with Dave Rubin is laughable.

00:03:31.260 I agree with that to this day.

00:03:33.240 No, I actually I have a did I say a reason for that?

00:03:37.940 Yeah, of course.

00:03:39.160 Never bring you on.

00:03:40.160 Oh, yeah, you did.

00:03:41.040 OK, I might have.

00:03:41.760 I don't know if I have that specific video teed up.

00:03:44.720 I might, though.

00:03:45.620 I may have.

00:03:47.240 I usually if I get like heated or something, but I tend not to be as definitive on things like this.

00:03:51.980 Well, it wasn't just that one time, too, when you went on Patrick Bed David show, you said the same thing.

00:03:58.540 Well, but, you know, it's true.

00:03:59.920 What's true?

00:04:00.920 There are a lot of big shows that have have blacklisted you.

00:04:03.260 Oh, I have no doubt.

00:04:04.920 I have no doubt.

00:04:05.920 It's not about you.

00:04:07.720 Nobody wanting to debate you.

00:04:08.740 I mean, the first thing I asked was like, let's talk about the issues.

00:04:11.160 And you immediately pulled up drama.

00:04:12.680 That's well, it's not drama.

00:04:13.640 I think everybody wants to know.

00:04:15.160 It's like a weird like, I mean, you know, if you I used to be a script writer.

00:04:20.720 And if you put a loaded gun in the first scene and you don't resolve it, people are going to be distracted.

00:04:27.440 So this way we can just deal with this, get that out of the way and then move on to stuff that is more, I think, like substantive.

00:04:34.320 Yeah.

00:04:34.580 But that's it.

00:04:36.200 Right.

00:04:36.840 It's not my business to tell other, you know, other other shows that have brought it up.

00:04:41.640 But I'm not concerned about other shows.

00:04:43.720 I know.

00:04:44.120 I'm just curious.

00:04:44.980 What am I doing here?

00:04:46.460 What are you doing here?

00:04:47.600 Yeah.

00:04:48.040 I decided to have you on.

00:04:49.020 I don't know.

00:04:49.240 I figured there were probably misconceptions you had about me.

00:04:52.560 I think that a lot of what you think about what I say comes from clips and not the actual show.

00:04:56.120 So there is like I don't really have conceptions of you.

00:05:01.060 Well, you this started because you said something that was untrue about my my position on the death penalty.

00:05:07.280 And I was like, I think Sam saw a clip that someone pulled out of context and didn't actually hear like my two hour diatribe on on.

00:05:15.900 Yeah, no, I don't.

00:05:17.500 I think actually what I was talking about, I don't think I ever said whether you believe in the death penalty or not.

00:05:25.240 I mean, you you pulled up you you you cited a quote where you said that I said something like I cited a quote or did I play a video at the beginning of a video?

00:05:34.040 Tim Poole agrees that people who commit treason should get the death penalty, which is is that right?

00:05:38.460 Do you have the video?

00:05:39.520 You must have the video.

00:05:40.640 No.

00:05:41.480 Oh, wait a second. 0.99

00:05:42.420 And I just went, holy crap. 0.69

00:05:44.320 And let me see if I got it, because I'm pretty sure I remember this. 0.88

00:05:47.700 It was in the context of you suing Kamala Harris.

00:05:52.940 And so and you're on with Laura Loomer.

00:05:55.640 Right.

00:05:56.180 And you said the words.

00:05:58.720 Ah, here we go.

00:05:59.480 People who get the death penalty. 0.79

00:06:01.980 I mean, excuse me, people who commit treason should get the death penalty.

00:06:05.420 What's the context of that sentence?

00:06:07.160 What's the context of that sentence?

00:06:08.700 So there's a clip that's five seconds long.

00:06:11.260 Oh, no, but I watched the whole rest of it.

00:06:12.700 Like, I know you went back and forth, but it was so weird because you should really if you can find this and put this up, because what I found fascinating about it was that you literally did say on multiple times and that going back and forth, because apparently what happened is you got in trouble at one point with, I don't know, some streaming service about people calling for the death penalty or whatever it was.

00:06:35.300 I don't I don't know the background of that.

00:06:36.580 YouTube says you can't call for the death penalty as a legal mechanism.

00:06:39.620 OK, and so she brought up, I think these people committed treason, they should get the death penalty.

00:06:49.500 And you said she'd I don't I don't know if she said I think I think I don't care what she said, really, for this sake.

00:06:56.540 But I'm quite sure you said if you commit treason, you should get the death penalty.

00:07:02.640 Now, right now, what's what words are you missing from that sentence?

00:07:05.320 Because it sounds like you just heard a clip.

00:07:07.180 No, no, no.

00:07:07.660 I watched the whole thing.

00:07:09.080 OK, well, then at one point afterwards, OK, so let's pause, let's pause.

00:07:13.540 We'll break this down.

00:07:14.140 We'll break this down.

00:07:14.680 Sure.

00:07:15.500 Is it currently codified in law that if you commit treason, you are out.

00:07:19.300 The penalty is death.

00:07:21.160 What do you mean by codified?

00:07:22.700 Like is U.S. law states that the penalty for treason is death?

00:07:25.640 Not necessarily, but it is one.

00:07:27.560 It is right.

00:07:28.220 The penalty for treason is death.

00:07:29.400 What is the penalty for murder?

00:07:31.200 It varies.

00:07:32.160 Right.

00:07:32.480 It can be the death penalty.

00:07:33.940 Exactly.

00:07:34.380 So it's the exact same dynamic as treason.

00:07:36.340 Yes.

00:07:36.560 So if we're talking about, in that context, people levying war against the United States,

00:07:40.860 to which I said, I don't believe any of these people committed treason.

00:07:43.600 Correct.

00:07:44.220 Sedition would be trying to undermine or cause damage to the government. 0.89

00:07:47.580 Correct.

00:07:48.200 That's not the issue.

00:07:49.520 Right.

00:07:49.780 And so the context of that conversation is, one, I don't agree with the death penalty.

00:07:53.620 And in no circumstances.

00:07:54.680 But you did say the words, if you committed treason, you should, you should get the death 0.99

00:08:02.280 penalty. 0.99

00:08:02.940 Okay.

00:08:03.340 So once again, do you not understand?

00:08:05.340 Would you agree if someone commits murder that they should get the death penalty?

00:08:08.800 No.

00:08:09.720 I agree with that.

00:08:10.840 Right. 0.96

00:08:11.380 But you did say, if they commit treason, they should get the death penalty.

00:08:15.860 So if we're talking about the penalty for levying war against a country, whether you want it

00:08:20.320 to or not, if a judge sentences someone to death, should they get the death penalty?

00:08:24.520 If a judge, I don't think people should get the death penalty under any circumstances.

00:08:28.240 If someone is shooting at another person, should they be shot at and killed?

00:08:32.500 If someone's shooting at another person, should they be shot at and killed? 0.99

00:08:35.400 Yes.

00:08:35.640 If someone is committing an act of violence, and act actively, is it within the legal rights

00:08:41.020 of a person to return with lethal force?

00:08:43.400 You mean self-defense?

00:08:45.140 Yes.

00:08:45.620 I think so, yeah.

00:08:46.700 Right now, whether you want it to or not, if someone robs a liquor store, should they

00:08:52.580 go to jail?

00:08:53.660 Should they go to jail?

00:08:54.800 Under the current laws, regardless of your opinions, should the police arrest the person?

00:08:59.500 Should the people arrest the person for robbing a liquor store?

00:09:02.520 Yes.

00:09:03.340 I mean, I think they should, yes.

00:09:04.860 Do you think in literally every single circumstance then, no matter what happens, if someone commits

00:09:09.720 a robbery, they should be arrested?

00:09:11.400 I mean, I suppose there could be extenuating circumstances, but yes, if you commit a crime,

00:09:19.580 you should be arrested.

00:09:21.080 So the clarification that I'm trying to make, it's not about, I don't think there's any real

00:09:24.780 reason to try and go back and parse semantics.

00:09:27.180 The concept was, if people are levying war against the United States, such as we're on the battlefield

00:09:34.060 somewhere in Iraq or whatever, right?

00:09:36.180 Wait, this whole thing was about treason, where you were saying that-

00:09:39.620 Do you want me to explain the ideas, or do you want to just go in circles?

00:09:42.900 I don't understand.

00:09:44.060 Well, I want you just to address what I'm talking about.

00:09:47.500 I'm trying to.

00:09:47.880 Instead of talking about war.

00:09:49.500 All right, go ahead, please.

00:09:50.820 Treason is levying war.

00:09:53.260 Treason is levying war?

00:09:54.580 Or providing aid to the enemy of the United States in a time of war.

00:09:57.720 Well, it also, you can be, I mean, there's been people who have been charged with treason

00:10:01.480 when we're not in an act of war, but yes, I guess, I mean, but however you want to parse

00:10:07.680 this, treason is a legal charge against somebody, and there are multiple potential penalties for

00:10:16.960 that, one of which includes capital punishment, and the-

00:10:22.700 Just for the sake of clarity, because in the show we're talking about, we're not talking

00:10:26.660 about specifics of someone may or may not be wrongly charged.

00:10:29.360 If you're asking me why I would say something like should be, it's rooted in this.

00:10:33.900 Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them or in adhering

00:10:37.740 to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.

00:10:39.900 No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses of the same

00:10:43.360 overt act or confession in open court.

00:10:45.880 So the cons, the issue at hand was, when we were talking and I said, I don't think any

00:10:51.660 of these people committed treason, I don't think anything they've done is worthy of death,

00:10:55.820 I don't agree with the death penalty.

00:10:56.900 The return is, but what if they're levying war against us, and then someone decides their

00:11:01.400 life should be forfeit?

00:11:02.500 I watched that video, and in fact, I remember this now, actually, we were going over the

00:11:09.160 ridiculousness of your lawsuit, and I said, you know, Tim says he doesn't agree with the

00:11:16.880 death penalty, that's fine. 0.89

00:11:18.000 And then they played more where you say, if you've committed treason, you should get the 0.67

00:11:23.220 death penalty.

00:11:23.820 I mean, and then the interesting thing is, then I watched, hold on, let me finish. 0.95

00:11:28.820 Do you want to do a drama circle jerk, or do you want to actually talk about the ideas

00:11:32.800 of the death penalty and what should or should not happen?

00:11:34.660 No, I think that I personally am against the death penalty.

00:11:38.220 I think you are maybe against the death penalty.

00:11:42.000 I'm 100% against death penalty.

00:11:43.100 But what I found fascinating, it was as if, if you watch that video as it goes further

00:11:48.520 along, maybe you can release it.

00:11:50.600 I don't know if it's behind a paywall or what.

00:11:52.160 I watched it somewhere, so I know it exists.

00:11:54.240 Maybe it was on Rumble.

00:11:57.300 And if you go along, it's almost like you catch yourself and you realize, like, wait

00:12:00.520 a second, I'm against the death penalty.

00:12:02.420 So, no, you shouldn't get capital punishment.

00:12:06.220 And that's one of the things that I think, like, in terms of, like, that I have always

00:12:09.440 found fascinating about you, and that there was actually a great video by Timba Toast on

00:12:14.440 how you vacillate between different political ideas as a way of, like, maintaining a certain

00:12:24.120 brand.

00:12:24.960 What is the brand?

00:12:26.080 Well, I'm not exactly sure what you think the brand is, but...

00:12:30.140 Here's the challenge.

00:12:31.080 Here's the challenge.

00:12:31.460 You know, if I post a joke on X that is, like, over the top, for instance, I tweeted,

00:12:38.760 Kamala Harris is, like, Hitler and Stalin times 200, and she's going to kill, she's 0.95

00:12:43.400 going to start 800 wars.

00:12:44.860 That was actually written about in various liberal outlets as if it was a fact statement.

00:12:49.900 And so I'm sitting here being like, can they not tell?

00:12:52.300 Well, there's Poe's law.

00:12:53.060 I get it.

00:12:53.680 Sometimes they don't.

00:12:54.760 But the issue at hand right now is just semantics.

00:12:57.980 So instead of saying, like, well, you...

00:13:00.320 Dude, we're in the communication business.

00:13:02.140 Like, our words are important.

00:13:03.480 Now, listen, I certainly understand people misinterpreting a tweet.

00:13:07.440 Believe me, I've been there.

00:13:08.440 I will just say this for the sake of clarity.

00:13:11.040 Right now, regardless of my opinions on law, should the law be that someone will receive

00:13:16.320 the death penalty, then they should receive it.

00:13:18.840 I oppose it.

00:13:19.940 But it doesn't necessarily...

00:13:21.600 The treason, the punishment for treason is not necessarily the death penalty anymore

00:13:25.480 than it is with murder.

00:13:26.760 All right, so let's just try...

00:13:27.920 Why would you ever say, if you're against death penalty...

00:13:29.240 So this is, once again, misconception.

00:13:30.500 I'm trying to get past, so let me explain.

00:13:32.020 Okay.

00:13:33.220 In the circumstance where someone has committed a death-worthy trespass, I oppose the death

00:13:38.140 penalty.

00:13:38.800 I would advocate against it.

00:13:40.500 We recently had a big case where there were two instances where people were put to death

00:13:43.840 one guy.

00:13:44.280 The family even said it shouldn't happen.

00:13:45.880 They'd cut a deal with the prosecutor.

00:13:46.980 It still happened.

00:13:48.020 And that was, I believe it was...

00:13:49.320 Who was that?

00:13:50.600 That was Missouri.

00:13:51.500 And a lot of people who watch my show were quite outraged that a family would say no.

00:13:56.880 But the issue at hand is, I don't assert myself over the rest of the country in law, which

00:14:01.740 means if the mechanism of the courts is as such, that's what should happen.

00:14:05.200 I will fight against it.

00:14:06.700 That's the semantic misunderstanding.

00:14:08.700 Oh, all right.

00:14:09.240 Let's just put it like this.

00:14:10.040 Because you were so offended.

00:14:11.740 I mean, the reason why I thought I was here was because you were so offended that I said

00:14:15.440 you were against the death penalty.

00:14:16.760 You said I was for it.

00:14:17.460 For it, and I got confused when you said someone should get the death penalty for trees.

00:14:23.540 Under a mechanism of law that I oppose.

00:14:25.240 Well, you never said those words.

00:14:26.640 But that was the whole conversation.

00:14:28.620 No, actually it wasn't.

00:14:30.140 Literally was.

00:14:30.840 We can play it.

00:14:31.780 But I mean, look, how about we just, instead of going back and forth and saying it was this

00:14:37.840 show where these things are said, we lay down on the table, there it is.

00:14:41.020 Okay, there it is.

00:14:41.520 Death penalty should be opposed. 0.61

00:14:43.180 We agree on that.

00:14:44.240 Government is a failed arbiter of who should live or die.

00:14:47.600 This mechanism doesn't work at an institutional level.

00:14:49.820 I don't know that anybody is a arbiter of who should live or die, but yes.

00:14:55.860 Excuse me.

00:14:57.160 There is some context that is more challenging, such as if a man pointed a weapon at your children,

00:15:02.540 would you decide that he should die?

00:15:04.780 I mean, if someone pointed a weapon at my children, I would attempt to do whatever I

00:15:11.940 needed to do to stop them.

00:15:13.240 But that's different than-

00:15:14.100 Up to and including lethal force.

00:15:15.200 I mean, if that's what it took, of course.

00:15:17.520 So that is you making the decision that you will take action, which may lead to the death

00:15:20.760 of an individual.

00:15:21.860 Oh, yeah.

00:15:22.520 I mean, that, you know, I would suffer the consequences, but I don't believe in general

00:15:28.700 that in capital punishment.

00:15:31.280 I mean, that's not capital punishment.

00:15:33.280 That's self-defense or-

00:15:36.100 In certain circumstances, a person will decide someone may be about to die.

00:15:40.500 And there's other issues, of course, like whether to render medical aid is a different

00:15:45.580 circumstance.

00:15:46.480 If someone is already dying, then there's if someone is in peril, but you can't save them.

00:15:50.640 But in terms of a human being making an active decision to end someone's life, there are

00:15:54.060 many circumstances where someone will decide that they are the arbiter of that decision.

00:15:58.240 Police officers do it every day.

00:16:00.000 Soldiers do it every day.

00:16:00.980 And often, regular people.

00:16:04.740 We have the Penny trial in New York right now where they've got the trial going on for

00:16:10.320 the, you know, Daniel Penny in New York where he put that guy in the chokehold and the guy

00:16:13.860 died.

00:16:14.380 He made that decision at that point. 0.98

00:16:16.000 Well, he killed the guy. 0.81

00:16:16.880 He did.

00:16:17.360 And he made that decision for whatever reason, I am going to apply this technique to this

00:16:23.040 man may result in death.

00:16:24.700 So at a certain point, someone makes that choice.

00:16:26.780 The question then is, do we agree that the choice was necessary or that they were backed

00:16:30.760 into a corner?

00:16:31.740 And that's a difficult decision.

00:16:33.200 So I would just put it this way.

00:16:34.300 I think in a perfect world-

00:16:35.840 It has nothing to do with capital punishment, though.

00:16:37.920 It's about whether someone chooses someone else should die.

00:16:40.500 Right.

00:16:40.800 But that has nothing to do with capital punishment.

00:16:43.940 They share-

00:16:45.260 Capital punishment is definitely a punishment that is put out by the government as opposed

00:16:51.060 to, you know, an individual's decision as to whether or not they're going to apply lethal

00:16:56.060 force to somebody.

00:16:56.900 It has nothing to do with it.

00:16:58.020 You would never say-

00:16:59.300 They're literally-

00:17:00.080 That penny provided capital punishment to that guy on the subway because-

00:17:04.420 I don't think anyone's making that argument.

00:17:05.900 Well, that's what I'm saying.

00:17:06.560 It has nothing to do with capital punishment.

00:17:08.140 Just in the sense that someone's making a decision over someone's death.

00:17:10.960 And the question being, in the case of self-defense, I agree there are circumstances.

00:17:15.740 And in the case of capital punishment, I agree there are no circumstances.

00:17:18.820 Okay.

00:17:18.900 I don't believe there's a reality where the government has successfully subdued an individual

00:17:23.940 who they are no longer a threat, and then they just decide 20 years later, now let's

00:17:27.780 kill the person. 0.98

00:17:28.320 That makes no sense to me. 1.00

00:17:29.680 Yeah, no, I agree.

00:17:30.900 I do not believe that we should have capital punishment.

00:17:36.580 I do not believe in the death penalty.

00:17:38.300 What do we- how do we stop it?

00:17:41.160 Well, I mean, there have been times in the past where we've come close, I think.

00:17:46.340 I think, sadly, I think because of all of the ginned up stuff about crime in this country

00:17:57.300 over the past couple of years, I think we're moving in the wrong direction.

00:18:01.660 I think the Democrats actually took it out of their platform this year.

00:18:05.280 That they're against the capital punishment.

00:18:08.560 It is a problem.

00:18:09.960 There is a cost associated with the attempts to scare people about crime in this country,

00:18:18.460 and that's one of the costs, that we move further away from some type of positive public policy.

00:18:26.100 4% of death row inmates are likely innocent, and that means at an institutional level,

00:18:32.780 people in this country, except 4 in 100 people, will be murdered by the state,

00:18:39.340 unjustly killed, for a sense of security?

00:18:43.400 I reject that outright.

00:18:45.900 Yeah, I mean, I just- I think both in terms of efficacy, but even in terms of, I think,

00:18:53.380 if you feel that there is a situation where in- without a threat to anybody, right?

00:19:03.000 I mean, these people are all in jail, that there is a justification to kill someone in cold blood,

00:19:08.920 then I think it just becomes a negotiation as to when it's not.

00:19:12.780 You know what really gets me, too, is what I hear from a lot of people is,

00:19:17.100 what about when you know?

00:19:18.720 You've seen on video they're harming a child or they're doing something,

00:19:22.200 and it's funny because in a circumstance where an individual literally witnesses a crime happening,

00:19:27.800 it's easy to say, sure, sure, we can- like, if you're out in public and you see someone committing

00:19:32.060 an egregious crime that, you know, is going to cause great bodily harm or death,

00:19:36.360 but why does that justify an institutional, national level mechanism by which the government

00:19:41.360 can decide that someone dies?

00:19:44.160 I think it comes down to 12 people walk into a room, someone they've never met before 0.99

00:19:50.240 points to a person they've never met, and they say, trust me, kill him.

00:19:52.900 And these people are like, well, sure, I guess. 0.90

00:19:55.300 I just- I think that's insanity.

00:19:56.900 No, I agree.

00:19:57.820 I mean, you know, you brought up the penny thing, and I think, like, you know,

00:20:02.160 that's why it's even that much more egregious, in my opinion, his killing of that man, because

00:20:08.560 I don't believe in that situation there was any type of threat that justified holding this guy

00:20:16.880 in a chokehold for that many minutes at all, frankly, for that matter.

00:20:20.940 What do you think, like, the penalty should be?

00:20:23.040 Like, do you think- like, they're charging him, I think, with negligent-

00:20:25.480 Is it negligent homicide?

00:20:26.500 I'm not sure.

00:20:26.900 At the very least, I would imagine manslaughter, but, you know, generally, as a rule, I don't-

00:20:35.700 I don't really parse out court cases.

00:20:41.800 I mean, you know, if there's a charge, as a matter of public policy, there are instances

00:20:46.640 where I think that people should be charged, but beyond that, then I just, you know, I didn't

00:20:56.240 even watch the OJ trial.

00:20:58.060 I'm curious about your thoughts on this story.

00:20:59.720 This is from NBC News from 2021.

00:21:02.540 Police say riders didn't help women raped on train because of the bystander effect.

00:21:06.840 Explain why.

00:21:08.660 Does the bystander effect explain why?

00:21:11.840 Philadelphia police said riders did not call 911, instead held their cell phones up in direction

00:21:15.520 of the assault.

00:21:17.240 You know, in a circumstance like this, this was a huge story.

00:21:20.360 40 minutes, a woman was harassed by a stranger on a public train and then raped while bystanders

00:21:26.780 just watched.

00:21:28.520 What would you do?

00:21:29.460 Like, what do you think a person should do in a circumstance like that?

00:21:31.420 At the very least, I would call 911.

00:21:33.760 That's correct.

00:21:34.120 Yeah, right.

00:21:34.420 Nobody did.

00:21:34.860 And over the course of 40 minutes, I mean, over the course of 40, I mean, I'm not familiar

00:21:44.000 with this story, but if...

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00:22:46.420 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

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00:23:15.520 Someone, I watched someone being assaulted. 0.75

00:23:18.680 Raped. 0.99

00:23:19.160 And then, or raped. 1.00

00:23:21.540 Yeah. 0.99

00:23:21.700 Um, yes, I would intervene.

00:23:24.500 I would push that person away. 0.80

00:23:27.580 Um, I would attempt to the stop them from raping that person. 1.00

00:23:32.240 I think anybody should.

00:23:33.220 What has that got to do with this?

00:23:35.240 Well, we've got two extremes, I suppose, right?

00:23:37.920 With, uh, with Neely, you've got a woman who said that she felt like her life was in danger

00:23:42.440 as one of the witnesses.

00:23:43.180 Well, we've seen that.

00:23:43.980 I mean, we, there, there were people all around there and the idea that she felt like her life

00:23:49.140 was in danger.

00:23:50.160 I mean, a, she's not communicating that to the guy, uh, to, to Neely be, um, he said he

00:23:59.420 said it was quite clear.

00:24:00.820 It was quite clear that, um, you know, I don't know, minute two, minute three, minute four,

00:24:08.960 um, that this person is not going to end up killing that person.

00:24:14.020 Um, I would imagine that if this guy, uh, attempted to assault her anymore, Neely could

00:24:20.620 have pushed him away or they could have held them, uh, held them down.

00:24:25.120 But a chokehold is a lethal thing and he held it for minutes.

00:24:27.960 Do you think that you would wait until the woman was being raped before you would intervene?

00:24:33.080 Uh, you know, probably not.

00:24:35.620 But how would you know then if the guy is like a threat unless he's actively committing

00:24:39.480 harm?

00:24:40.140 Well, I mean, if he's like actively committing harm, there's a, there's, you know, I would

00:24:47.340 assume, uh, I don't, I'm not familiar with that, uh, story, but I would assume that the,

00:24:52.200 the, the, it would start out where the guy is physically assaulting her. 0.67

00:24:57.960 Holding her down or whatnot.

00:24:59.480 And I think at that point I would go and intervene, but the, the, I think the problem in this

00:25:06.260 instance, and again, like, you know, the guy has been charged, uh, that's basically where

00:25:11.220 my interest, um, you know, uh, I move on to other things, but in an instance where, uh,

00:25:18.440 you're putting someone in a chokehold, which again, he's a trained, uh, he's trained in

00:25:23.900 a Marine, right?

00:25:24.660 Yeah.

00:25:24.940 He must know this is a, a lethal, uh, thing.

00:25:29.140 Um, you know, you're putting someone in a chokehold five, six minutes.

00:25:32.420 I think that's a, I think that's a problem.

00:25:35.340 Yeah.

00:25:35.760 I mean, for me, I just, I wouldn't, I have no idea.

00:25:39.040 Uh, you know, I see both stories and it seems like they're both on the ends, right?

00:25:42.100 Like Jordan Neely didn't do anything.

00:25:44.200 People may have claimed they have felt threatened in this regard.

00:25:46.840 It's a woman who was quite literally raped in one instance.

00:25:49.320 You have people aren't even calling nine one one.

00:25:51.800 I mean, I don't know what's going on there.

00:25:53.900 Yeah.

00:25:54.080 That's absurd.

00:25:54.920 I know it's crazy story.

00:25:55.940 Uh, I think, you know, there's, I don't think you have to have too nimble or nuanced of a

00:26:01.860 brain to say there's a difference between watching someone get raped and not calling nine 0.50

00:26:06.720 one one and putting someone in a chokehold for six minutes.

00:26:09.920 I feel like there's a, you can at least call nine one one.

00:26:13.760 Yeah.

00:26:14.080 These are pretty wide disparities.

00:26:16.360 This is not, you know.

00:26:17.160 That's what I mean.

00:26:17.560 Like on the extreme ends.

00:26:18.640 Right.

00:26:18.840 You get these stories where it's no intervention to the extreme degree and then intervention

00:26:23.700 to a person's death.

00:26:24.960 Right.

00:26:25.340 And it's like, maybe, maybe we don't see the stories of any kind of in between because

00:26:28.540 they're not sensational.

00:26:29.480 Right.

00:26:29.860 Like I'm sure something happened on a train recently in New York where someone, like the

00:26:33.520 guy was getting violent.

00:26:34.380 He got shoved.

00:26:35.560 Everything stopped.

00:26:36.440 You know what I mean?

00:26:37.600 NBC News is ever going to carry the story.

00:26:39.240 No.

00:26:39.440 Because there's nothing extreme about it.

00:26:41.020 And so we only ever get these edge cases, which put people on one side or the other.

00:26:45.100 Yeah.

00:26:45.440 I mean, you know, stuff happens in the subway all the time.

00:26:50.300 New York's been getting pretty wild.

00:26:52.720 I suppose it's relative to the amount of crime, but.

00:26:55.920 Been getting wild in what way?

00:26:57.540 There were, I think, what, last year, like 25 people were pushed in front of trains.

00:27:00.400 I mean, I can tell you that crime in New York City is, I mean, down still around historic

00:27:07.240 lows.

00:27:09.220 I mean, I was, you know, I'm old.

00:27:11.260 So I remember New York in the late 80s.

00:27:13.740 And, um, I mean, it's, it's like, uh, it's like three years ago.

00:27:20.480 Sorry.

00:27:20.760 I was wrong.

00:27:21.740 Yeah.

00:27:21.860 It was, uh, in 2022.

00:27:23.300 I think it was.

00:27:23.940 Oh, well, I mean, listen, during COVID, we had a once in a lifetime, uh, event, hopefully

00:27:30.220 knock on wood.

00:27:31.320 And, uh, a lot of things got messed up, but, uh, crime is back down.

00:27:35.900 You know, the only crime that has gone up, which is fascinating.

00:27:40.340 And for all of the, um, the BS that we heard over the past couple of years about, you know,

00:27:48.260 shoplifting and, uh, smash and grab and all that.

00:27:52.200 Do you know what the one major crime that is up?

00:27:55.420 Like the most, uh, statistically it's actually shoplifting.

00:27:59.340 Shoplifting went up in 2023 and it is now in it, because it went down during COVID.

00:28:08.340 So as much as we heard, because, and I know you've, you've talked about this quite a bit

00:28:12.440 and I think you've, you've, it's been misrepresented in a lot of respects that all of the shoplifting

00:28:18.920 was up and people are gone mayhem.

00:28:20.980 It's crazy.

00:28:21.460 It was actually below where it was in 2019 and it is now back up to where it was in 2019.

00:28:29.340 I think, uh, and because COVID was, you know, screwed up with our society so much.

00:28:34.480 But again, you ask me, why are we going the wrong direction with capital punishment?

00:28:38.980 I would say it is the absolute BS that has been shoveled.

00:28:43.240 I don't watch your show enough to know, although I've seen people on here who, uh, you know,

00:28:48.780 when Emma was on, uh, who promote this idea that there was like this explosion of crime.

00:28:55.620 And in fact, what ends up happening is that yes, during COVID there was a spike and now we're back down.

00:29:02.300 And the only thing that is back at 2019 levels is actually shoplifting because it had gone down

00:29:07.380 and it's gone back up because we're back to normal.

00:29:09.680 So I'm trying to pull up the Marshall project.

00:29:13.560 This is a, this is a good one.

00:29:16.340 So we had these, uh, this, this was the story that happened and this is what's a cause for contention.

00:29:20.780 The FBI released crime data showing that crime had gone down.

00:29:24.480 And, uh, you know, during the presidential debates, David Muir fact-checked Donald Trump saying actually crime is down.

00:29:29.920 However, recently the F, the FBI released, released new crime, uh, data showing that actually it was up.

00:29:36.580 It was up, I believe 4.5%.

00:29:38.180 When?

00:29:39.000 What year?

00:29:39.400 The year prior.

00:29:40.340 2021.

00:29:42.080 That it was up.

00:29:43.240 Yeah.

00:29:43.540 So the latest data that we have.

00:29:44.540 But we knew, no, no, it was actually 2022.

00:29:46.980 We knew, we knew, yeah, it was 20.

00:29:49.260 I'm sorry, the increase from 2021.

00:29:50.900 Yeah.

00:29:51.460 Over, yeah.

00:29:52.260 Yeah.

00:29:53.040 Yeah.

00:29:53.200 During COVID, in the wake of COVID, 2022 was up because the, uh, the, uh, the data reporting was not complete.

00:29:59.920 But if you look at 2023 data, which is now, um, they, uh, they have got enough of the, uh, police departments online that 94 point, I don't know, something of the country is covered.

00:30:13.600 You will find that crime is down in 2023.

00:30:17.020 So do you think, I think one of the issues we had a, we had a rise because of COVID and now it's dropping back down.

00:30:22.980 But again, let's also be clear on this.

00:30:25.680 If you compare 1990 crime with today, it's basically like this.

00:30:33.980 It's, it's just straight down on that.

00:30:36.380 You want to know something interesting?

00:30:37.200 You know, one of the biggest factors in the decline in murder is cell phones.

00:30:41.700 So back in the day, in the nineties, if somebody got stabbed, somebody had to run to a pay phone to try and call 911 and that created a massive gap between first response and medical treatment.

00:30:53.760 And so around the time cell phones came out, you see a massive drop in murder charges and homicides.

00:30:58.980 People immediately started thinking like, wow, crime is down.

00:31:01.160 And it's like, well, no, no, no.

00:31:02.300 Look at the crime data.

00:31:03.500 It's, it is down.

00:31:04.560 It is going down, but it's not the same.

00:31:06.800 There's, there's, there's a decline in crime and a sharp decline in murder because now people were instantly calling 911 and first responders were arriving on scene much more quickly.

00:31:13.920 So that's okay.

00:31:14.720 But also the other part was, yeah, I mean, that's interesting.

00:31:17.840 Crime has been going down.

00:31:18.460 Crime has been going down.

00:31:19.700 I mean, you know, there's a lot of theories about it.

00:31:21.860 I happen to think it's a function of lead, to be honest with you.

00:31:24.780 I agree.

00:31:25.020 Lead and gasoline.

00:31:25.980 Lead and gasoline and lead regulation.

00:31:29.160 It's another example of a strong government regulation bringing about benefits that we couldn't even imagine.

00:31:36.440 I agree.

00:31:37.560 What do you think?

00:31:38.380 I don't understand the mechanism by which lead made crime happen.

00:31:41.180 I saw the reports though, where there's a correlation.

00:31:42.920 Well, I mean, lead is a neurotoxin.

00:31:45.740 And if you, you know, if you have brain damage, you're more likely to be maybe violent or, you know, antisocial.

00:31:56.100 That's crazy.

00:31:57.080 Like in the seventies when we had leaded gasoline and it's just pumping out of all these cars, you're like people are effectively having some kind of effect on their brain.

00:32:05.000 And that was resulting in violence.

00:32:05.860 It aggregates.

00:32:06.720 And so if you are living in areas that had a lot of lead paint hadn't been remediated and on top of that, you're getting gasoline that's in the air, or I should say lead that is, you know, in, you know, in the air because of gas that accumulates in your brain.

00:32:30.240 Uh, and it creates neurotoxin.

00:32:32.160 That's why we have that problem in Flint, Michigan with the, uh, lead poisoning.

00:32:35.760 We have a lot of, uh, uh, children, uh, you know, who are, uh, who have special needs.

00:32:41.500 Um, and there is data.

00:32:45.220 I mean, this is, you know, uh, it's very difficult to assess this stuff, but there's data that shows that about 20 years after, uh, lead gasoline is, is outlawed or lead in gasoline is, is outlawed.

00:32:59.200 You see a precipitous drop in crime.

00:33:01.380 This happened both internationally and in this country.

00:33:04.320 What do you think about phthalates?

00:33:05.780 Are you familiar?

00:33:06.960 No.

00:33:07.560 So, uh, plastic chemicals leaching into our food.

00:33:10.960 Oh yeah.

00:33:11.500 Even, even these cans.

00:33:12.880 So, uh, I'm going to give a shout out to liquid death.

00:33:15.000 Look at mad at me, I guess.

00:33:15.900 So liquid death is, uh, water in cans and it says death to plastic, but every single aluminum can is lined with plastic.

00:33:22.960 So it's all leaching into our, like, yeah, even these midriffs, uh, they say they're endocrine disruptors. 0.99

00:33:28.360 So they're, they're affecting people's hormone regulation, hormone balance.

00:33:31.780 This could lead to, uh, depending on the study, hormone imbalance could lead to like emotional disturbance.

00:33:37.140 Disturbances or dissociative or like identity issues.

00:33:40.620 This is one of the reasons why, I mean, uh, since we are a couple of days away from an election, why I think it's so important to, um, make sure that Donald Trump is not in a position to appoint any more Supreme Court justices.

00:33:57.080 I mean, the damage is, has been done, but, uh, you know, it could be, uh, rectified because one of the things that the Supreme Court has done in its, its assault on what is known as the Chevron doctrine and, uh, the, uh, and, and deference, um, is it had, it will.

00:34:18.560 It will over time inhibit the ability of something like the EPA or, uh, the USDA or the FDA from assessing in real time that there is a problem with certain products that is poisoning our environment or poisoning our people.

00:34:39.700 And it will inhibit their ability to address it because we don't know in the future.

00:34:47.700 And certainly, and if, you know, what chemicals, you know, we, we discovered this over time, right?

00:34:53.020 We didn't know this when plastic, you know, plastics are fantastic.

00:34:55.480 And then we start to realize there's these PFAS, there's these, uh, things that you mentioned, um, maybe in the context of fracking, there are certain things leaching into water, but, uh, you probably know that you can't just like, there's no, I test water and then all the bad stuff comes back on the test sheet.

00:35:12.040 You must look for specific things.

00:35:14.240 Well, what, uh, this Supreme Court has done is inhibited.

00:35:18.640 And this actually is even a problem for investors like the SEC and other, uh, agencies, um, they have inhibited the ability of these agencies to do their work as scientists, um, as, uh, as financial regulators, find, uh, problems that exist that were not contemplated by Congress and act upon them.

00:35:41.520 Because Congress doesn't have the ability, you know, to, uh, act on every single or anticipate every single, uh, uh, substance that may be a problem for people or every, and I fructose corn syrup.

00:35:55.560 I mean, that's also a problem that was, uh, under, uh, the, the Nixon administration, they decided they wanted to increase the amount of, of, uh, of, uh, of money that, uh, expendable, uh, money that people had.

00:36:09.680 So they decided to, uh, subsidize corn and, um, you know, make all the food cheaper.

00:36:17.180 But isn't it, isn't it weird how the high fructose corn syrup things happens?

00:36:19.900 They subsidize corn.

00:36:21.420 So then these researchers are like, corn's so cheap now because it's being paid for by the government, by taxpayers that we can produce.

00:36:28.940 It's actually difficult to make high fructose corn syrup.

00:36:31.400 It's more expensive than sugar, but the government subsidy has resulted in.

00:36:35.560 A hundred percent.

00:36:36.180 And it's also the filler in all our foods.

00:36:38.340 Yeah.

00:36:38.600 I was reading something recently that said that the high, uh, colon cancer rate among young people is due to emulsifiers.

00:36:45.520 They're using like gel and gum and guar gum and these things in, in dairy products.

00:36:50.780 So, or not even just dairy products, but like to make it seem like it's fatty.

00:36:54.360 And so you're actually just eating this like gum stuff that gunks up your insides.

00:36:59.020 I don't, I don't know how you, uh, appropriately regulate or, or deal with things like that because it's like you're saying.

00:37:04.860 We don't know what it's going to do until it, until we have all this data and research for a long period of time.

00:37:09.780 I mean, uh, we could, we could regulate against it.

00:37:13.220 Like, you know, I wasn't quite a fan of, uh, Michael Bloomberg, but one of the things he did was, uh, you know, I think it was during the Bloomberg administration.

00:37:19.740 There were like, uh, polysaturated fats.

00:37:22.040 I think it was that were outlawed, uh, in, in New York city.

00:37:25.660 I think that's become, uh, the norm around the country.

00:37:29.100 Um, even like, uh, like you couldn't buy a 40 ounce soda.

00:37:33.980 That was kind of weird.

00:37:34.720 Not really, because it's the same principle, right?

00:37:37.800 I mean, the fact is, is that like, and, and, and the pushback from conservatives in this was so ridiculous because like, look, I can't go buy a, you know, a pony version of like a beer.

00:37:51.820 Like, I don't want a 12 ounce beer.

00:37:53.680 It's not illegal.

00:37:54.180 I want to, well, but I can't, it's not available to me.

00:37:57.360 I mean, the size distribution, what difference does it make?

00:38:00.600 Like at the end of the day.

00:38:01.820 Well, that's true because people just bought two sodas.

00:38:03.760 It is, I mean, if you buy two sodas, at least you're, you're, you're, you're trying to basically, uh, you know, you're not, you're not outlawing, you're not outlawing sodas or whatnot, but you're, you're, you're trying to encourage less, uh, cost essentially for society.

00:38:20.960 Right.

00:38:21.260 Cause more people get diabetes that ends up costing society more.

00:38:24.860 I mean, so there's a lot of value to regulation.

00:38:27.920 You know, look, we saw this in the context of light bulbs, the light, the light technology we have in here, right?

00:38:33.340 All these LEDs, uh, it's a lot warmer, cooler in here than it would be if we had, uh, the old timey lights, they burn out.

00:38:41.080 Um, the LEDs don't, they're cheaper.

00:38:43.740 It took a couple of years before you got the technology was better, but I can't, I mean, I'm, maybe you remember this, but the outrage by conservatives over the, uh, light bulbs, you know?

00:38:57.400 And we hear Trump talk about this too, with the toilets and whatnot.

00:39:00.140 Incidentally, I'm very sorry.

00:39:01.620 You have a very fancy toilet and, uh, it's, well, you have a very fancy toilet.

00:39:06.900 You apologized.

00:39:08.100 Well, it did.

00:39:08.800 We wouldn't flush.

00:39:10.020 You got to, yeah, because it's a fancy toilets. 0.80

00:39:12.000 It's trying to save water.

00:39:13.940 We try, man.

00:39:15.540 So, no, I appreciate that.

00:39:17.140 You end up having to press it several times and then, you know, it didn't work for me.

00:39:20.940 Should we just get the regular one, the regular?

00:39:23.700 I don't know what you should do, but, uh, maybe I'll call the authorities because I, you know.

00:39:27.960 Well, I mean, but that's, that's kind of an issue, right?

00:39:29.640 We, we have this like high end eco toilet.

00:39:32.420 It will.

00:39:33.380 Well, it's a bidet and it's, it's fantastic.

00:39:35.820 I really enjoyed that part of it.

00:39:38.900 But it won't flush.

00:39:40.420 It didn't flush.

00:39:41.540 Yeah.

00:39:41.800 People keep asking, like, I don't understand.

00:39:43.160 I'm like, you got to press like three times because it has like a sensor.

00:39:46.160 I pressed it at like five.

00:39:48.480 So, I mean, this, this, this, this,

00:39:50.920 it kind of feels like an example.

00:39:52.400 So, I, I, we agree.

00:39:54.660 We want to re, uh, reduce excess waste.

00:39:57.980 We want to, we want to reduce overuse waste in general.

00:40:01.100 Like we don't want to produce waste.

00:40:02.120 We want to, uh, we not, we want to not waste things like fresh water.

00:40:05.640 But now we have a toilet that requires five flushes because we tried doing the right thing.

00:40:09.840 Well, I mean, look, you, you know, you, you just bought the wrong toilet.

00:40:12.920 I mean, I, I, I have low flow.

00:40:15.920 You can find low flow, you know, manual toilets.

00:40:18.700 I mean, that's a, that's a high end toilet. 0.69

00:40:20.660 You just didn't need somebody screwed up.

00:40:23.100 But I mean, the bottom line is, uh, all of these, uh, there are definitely regulations.

00:40:28.780 Um, nobody's forcing you to buy that toilet, but there are definitely regulations that we

00:40:34.540 find over time are not as effective as we thought.

00:40:37.640 But, uh, the bottom line is all of this deregulation that we're seeing is a function of, of largely

00:40:45.600 of, well, certainly of conservatives, um, but largely a function of the Republican party.

00:40:53.460 And now we see, uh, you know, for me, uh, I, uh, Kamala Harris would not be the first, uh,

00:40:59.740 uh, uh, person that I would, uh, vote for.

00:41:03.300 But in terms of the Supreme court, um, that alone is enough, uh, for me, uh, and federal

00:41:12.800 courts, I would say too, broadly.

00:41:14.300 I mean, how do we balance this, right?

00:41:16.540 So there's, there's a push and pull between private and public.

00:41:19.240 There are, you know, I've never been a laissez-faire libertarian guy.

00:41:21.940 I, I've never heard a good argument from a libertarian about how you protect water.

00:41:25.680 Uh, I've often brought up the, um, the, the, the clean, clean water restoration act.

00:41:29.900 Are you familiar?

00:41:31.260 Um, I, I, a little bit.

00:41:33.520 I'm not, I'm not trying to put you on the spot.

00:41:34.900 It's just in, I think it was the seventies.

00:41:36.840 I'm not sure if it was the Cuyahoga river.

00:41:38.420 It was the Cuyahoga river in Ohio that was on fire.

00:41:41.120 And that's where we got the EPA from.

00:41:43.460 Right.

00:41:43.820 And people were like, uh, why is this?

00:41:45.940 And what ends up happening is all of these corporations say, don't look at me.

00:41:48.660 I only did a little bit.

00:41:49.880 And it's like, well, yeah, but literally everybody doing a little bit is an avalanche.

00:41:53.060 Yes, of course.

00:41:54.340 And I've never heard a good answer for how you deal with something like that.

00:41:56.800 Just claiming someone owns the river changes nothing.

00:41:58.880 No, of course it doesn't.

00:42:00.120 I mean, I've had many, many debates.

00:42:01.620 People can, can look on my channel for my debates with libertarians.

00:42:04.600 And at one point it all just turns into ridiculous mush, uh, with libertarians and, and look, there's

00:42:10.800 a, um, uh, the, the idea that you are either pro regulation or anti regulation to be anti regulation

00:42:20.160 is in my estimation, absurd, but that doesn't mean that you don't look at each regulation

00:42:25.600 and make an assessment as to whether it's, it's functioning or not.

00:42:29.020 There's a lot of local regulations that I think are, are, are, are unhelpful at times.

00:42:33.840 Uh, I'm sure on a federal level, there are some regulations that are unhelpful, but bottom line is fundamentally,

00:42:39.460 do you allow the government to, uh, have this ability to regulate the idea that we have,

00:42:45.600 that it inhibits, um, uh, the free market in some way?

00:42:49.340 I think the idea of a free market is absurd, doesn't exist, but beyond that, um, uh, we're

00:42:55.900 always regulating the market.

00:42:57.580 It's just a question for whose benefit are we regulating it?

00:43:00.400 That's the bottom line.

00:43:01.320 I think free markets can only exist temporarily until someone amasses power and then displaces

00:43:06.080 the market and becomes the, the, the power structure.

00:43:08.340 There is no, like what, what is a free market?

00:43:10.980 It would, it would be like 10 people who live 10 miles from each other.

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00:44:46.560 Resource, you start to get power displacement and then you'll end up with power centralizing.

00:44:51.560 Yes.

00:44:51.940 Well, the first thing that you're talking about, you know, hasn't existed in, in, in,

00:44:56.120 you know, forever, forever.

00:44:59.560 I mean, but, but it's like, uh, I talk about this with left libertarianism because a lot

00:45:03.160 of people on the right say it doesn't exist.

00:45:04.680 And I'm like, it, it, it absolutely does.

00:45:06.720 It's a hippie is living on a farm.

00:45:07.920 You know what I mean?

00:45:08.280 That's, that's, that's, that's left libertarianism.

00:45:10.520 They're just hippies on a farm.

00:45:12.060 There's no, there's no need for great power structures or police because 10 people living

00:45:15.700 on a farm get along just fine.

00:45:16.980 But, but, but, but, you know, and, and maybe they're completely self-sufficient, but, you

00:45:22.880 know, they got there in some fashion and it wasn't, they, you know, they drove on roads

00:45:28.660 that were built, built by a society and, you know, so.

00:45:31.460 It is funny because I always hear libertarians say that it's a meme who's going to build

00:45:35.400 the roads and I never actually get a response.

00:45:38.520 Well, like private companies.

00:45:39.960 You can find private companies that are going to build roads, but they're.

00:45:43.080 As, as they do.

00:45:44.200 Yes.

00:45:44.620 But they're not going to build it to everywhere.

00:45:46.640 Like, you know, out here, you know, I mean.

00:45:49.500 You had to build this road.

00:45:50.200 Well, you built the road, not, not the, not the paved one.

00:45:53.660 The, uh, no, no, no.

00:45:54.560 The one that goes onto the property we had to build.

00:45:56.440 Well, yes, of course, of course.

00:45:58.400 But, um, but, uh, the paved one gives you the opportunity to, you know, that's the way

00:46:03.520 you get to the airport.

00:46:04.780 Yeah.

00:46:05.360 So, uh, I guess the point about regulation is I, I certainly agree.

00:46:09.540 It's like Republicans across the board are, are almost always talking about deregulation,

00:46:13.620 but it's absurd, but I don't see Democrats talking about cleaning regulation.

00:46:16.620 Right.

00:46:17.580 It's, it's, there's a give and take, but let me, let me give you a better example.

00:46:19.960 What is cleaning regulation?

00:46:21.220 Getting rid of the bad ones.

00:46:22.440 Oh my God.

00:46:23.280 I mean, uh, I would say so to an excessive standpoint.

00:46:27.280 I mean, this is, you know, uh, and, and I'm not speaking, uh, positively this, but then,

00:46:32.900 you know, the, the guy cast Sunstein underneath the, uh, under, uh, the Obama administration

00:46:37.120 was absurd, uh, the idea, you know, look the, um, I don't think you ever have to worry about

00:46:42.940 the Democrats, uh, putting too much regulation on things because, uh, to, you know, a certain

00:46:48.540 extent, there's still elements within that party.

00:46:51.320 And hopefully it's getting, uh, drummed out.

00:46:53.440 Well, gun guns is a good issue. 1.00

00:46:54.840 Uh, neoliberal is guns are, uh, overregulated in, in ways that don't quite make sense.

00:47:01.200 Right.

00:47:01.640 So that's, that's an example of, for instance, uh, semantic definitions of high capacity and

00:47:08.040 standard capacity, what those even mean, but more importantly, the specific example would

00:47:11.540 be in Maryland, they've banned the M1A, but the scar 20s is legal despite the fact, and

00:47:16.500 there's no legal, like there's no reason for it other than Democrats just decided we will

00:47:21.480 start regulating these things because it sounds good on paper.

00:47:23.620 Well, I think that probably the reason is, is that we have a court that decided in 2008

00:47:29.720 after, uh, almost 200 years, uh, in this country of, of, uh, not perceiving a, an individual

00:47:38.200 right to carry, uh, a gun, but only in the context of being a well-regulated militia that

00:47:45.120 because the court has lurched so far to the right over the past two decades, um, particularly

00:47:50.760 most recently, uh, that I think the idea is that you chip away at this from a legal perspective

00:47:58.500 to try and build a legal precedent by doing, you know, whatever.

00:48:03.660 I mean, I'm not familiar with that specific regulation, but I would imagine that's the

00:48:07.900 idea.

00:48:08.380 We're going to get as, as much regulation as we can in this.

00:48:11.980 I don't know, like, what's the damage done by that?

00:48:15.240 Uh, maybe from the perspective, made people felons who have like an archaic, it's unfair

00:48:20.100 to call it archaic, I guess.

00:48:21.120 But like the M1 Garand is like a Vietnam weapon and, uh, the M1A is a more modern version,

00:48:26.540 but it's like a, it's like a Woodstock and, uh, it's got like a, uh, it's a, uh, it was

00:48:31.400 a 308.

00:48:32.200 The Scar 20S is a modern AR-15 style variant, which is substantially more efficient.

00:48:36.800 Well, I am definitely in favor of, uh, outlying, you know, all of them, uh, if that makes it,

00:48:43.240 uh, easier.

00:48:44.260 Every single one.

00:48:44.980 Well, I, I, listen, I think that people, uh, I have no problem with, uh, with, uh, people

00:48:50.400 using weapons that are specifically for, for hunting.

00:48:54.500 Um, you know, that's, uh, I, I'm okay with that, but, um.

00:49:00.220 See how I segwayed into guns now?

00:49:01.740 Well, I, I'm happy to, you know, I mean, it's, uh, it's absurd, I think, uh, you know,

00:49:06.720 the Supreme Court has lurched to the right and, uh, we have two, uh, Supreme Court justices

00:49:11.980 on the right who I think want to retire in, uh, in Alito and in Clarence Thomas.

00:49:19.060 And, um, I would love Donald Trump not to have the opportunity to, uh, point their successors.

00:49:25.680 I, I, I don't want to go too, I want to stay on the guns for a bit, but it's, it, the sign's

00:49:30.580 pointing to a Trump victory.

00:49:31.940 It doesn't mean he's going to win.

00:49:32.900 I don't know if he's going to win.

00:49:33.680 Didn't you tell me that somebody, we were driving up and somebody asked me, uh, if I'd

00:49:37.780 been on your show before and I said, yeah, I, I don't know what show it was.

00:49:42.620 Cause you got so many, uh, but, uh.

00:49:45.320 It was actually this channel.

00:49:46.680 Okay.

00:49:47.020 That was like seven years ago.

00:49:48.340 And I, nobody can find that interview, but I'm quite convinced that you also predicted

00:49:52.860 a Trump victory then.

00:49:54.020 And that must've been like, it was pre COVID.

00:49:57.080 Well, this was like 2017, 2018.

00:49:58.800 Okay.

00:49:59.120 So I don't, I don't know.

00:50:00.640 I mean, maybe not, but I'm pretty sure it was.

00:50:02.280 I mean, I, I am unclear as to who's going to win, uh, this election.

00:50:06.220 I, I, you know, I, I see, uh, uh, positive signs for, for Harris, but I can't tell if

00:50:13.280 that's, you know, me being aspirational or not.

00:50:15.840 So I, I would certainly say I learned my lesson with, with 2020, right?

00:50:19.360 So I'm, I'm, I'm looking at, for instance, Moody's analytics and they always releases

00:50:23.240 economic report where they're like, here's our projections.

00:50:25.680 And they taught how they're, it's, it's historically accurate.

00:50:28.320 And then, uh, what I think I saw well was there was an increase in support for Trump.

00:50:32.980 And what I thought I was calling out accurately was an increase in opposition to Trump, but

00:50:37.520 the opposition certainly was greater.

00:50:38.900 But I think that the, the, the biggest, uh, function of 2020 was Republicans just don't

00:50:43.260 know how to win elections.

00:50:44.740 They, that's why I think what the, the last Republican to win a popular vote was, was it,

00:50:49.500 was it Reagan?

00:50:50.140 I think.

00:50:50.800 No, well, Bush in his second, uh, election did, but he did that by, um, by basically coming

00:50:56.900 out and bashing gay people and, uh, driving out the, uh, well, no, I think that was actually,

00:51:03.740 despite the fact, I mean, you know, in the wake of nine 11, there was a lot of, uh, intimidation, 0.82

00:51:08.720 um, uh, by the Republicans and they attacked a lot of Democrats for being, you know, Max

00:51:15.100 Cleland who lost like, uh, uh, both his arms and, uh, his legs in, uh, or an arm and two

00:51:22.420 of his legs, I think it was in the, uh, he was running for reelection in, in Georgia

00:51:27.080 and they, they, they called him Osama bin Laden.

00:51:30.160 Um, wow.

00:51:31.440 The, um, but yeah, I mean, uh, the, who knows, uh, Hillary Clinton had a 95% chance of winning 1.00

00:51:39.280 and the 5% came in.

00:51:40.560 So I don't, uh, I just, but let's go back to, I just, I'm going to ask you about this,

00:51:44.820 about the Supreme court.

00:51:45.440 Cause it sounds like you have a problem with how their right would shift.

00:51:48.500 Is that right?

00:51:49.080 The, the, the, the first challenge is like right and left mean different things in different

00:51:53.260 areas of governance and culture and things like this.

00:51:55.760 So it's when we talk about right.

00:51:58.440 Well, I'm talking about in terms of Supreme court in the context of what the Supreme court

00:52:01.940 does.

00:52:02.260 I mean, they don't dictate, uh, culture so much as they, uh, dictate law.

00:52:06.920 What I mean is like you say, right word shift and defining what right and left are in different

00:52:13.320 contexts, I think matters because if we say in the context of the Supreme court, right would

00:52:18.660 shift would be one, which, uh, traditionalist, I would say versus progressive.

00:52:23.820 That's, that's what I'm trying to draw the distinction on because like right economic

00:52:26.220 is there.

00:52:26.740 They're certainly not right economic to a certain degree.

00:52:29.080 The Supreme court is not right wing in terms of economics.

00:52:32.080 So right economics to imply more like laissez faire capitalism versus, oh my God, they're

00:52:36.740 completely, uh, attacking the government's ability to regulate.

00:52:40.580 They're completely attacking the government, disempowering the government is basically saying

00:52:47.660 like, I mean, government is always, always, that's not laissez faire, right?

00:52:52.620 It is almost definitionally laissez faire.

00:52:55.260 Yeah.

00:52:55.380 Well, no, like allowing large corporations to have revolving door policies and protections

00:52:59.480 for large corporations is not revolving door policies.

00:53:01.820 Like when, uh, uh, like the CEO of Halliburton gets a job in government or something like

00:53:07.520 this, right?

00:53:08.200 Well, when there's an exchange between the government, laissez faire is where you basically

00:53:13.020 is, I mean, yeah, buyer, I think it's a smokes.

00:53:17.400 No, that's caveat emptor.

00:53:18.780 I know.

00:53:19.320 Uh, so I'm insulting it.

00:53:20.760 Laissez faire is where essentially, um, and, and I think it's a little bit of a, of a,

00:53:26.900 of a, uh, of a smokescreen, but laissez faire specifically means you're, um, the government,

00:53:32.780 uh, completely, uh, backs off and does not intervene in, in, in, in what's going on.

00:53:38.380 And what I'm saying is I think the, many of these powerful elites that we would describe

00:53:41.260 as right are in favor of protections for their buddies and their billionaires.

00:53:44.480 Well, uh, the, the reality of neoliberalism as it coming out of, uh, Mont Peleron and the,

00:53:51.900 the society, it was ultimately about, um, a protection racket, um, for a specific industry

00:54:01.040 or a specific players within an industry.

00:54:03.900 But, but fair point, more right word than like relative to where we are.

00:54:07.600 Yes.

00:54:07.880 Completely agree.

00:54:08.440 No, it's just, it's, it's almost definitionally, uh, right.

00:54:11.760 Right word shift.

00:54:12.680 Yeah.

00:54:12.920 I think I was pulling hairs, you know, but anyway, uh, so I, I, I agree to a certain extent.

00:54:18.100 Um, I, I, I, I fairly modern, a lot of issues.

00:54:20.800 I think there's gotta be some push and pull.

00:54:22.460 I think, uh, I'd like to see a democratic party that provides, uh, sound regulation in

00:54:27.480 key areas that matter.

00:54:28.320 Like we're talking about lead and water and things like this.

00:54:30.300 And then I'd like to see actually any party.

00:54:32.720 I don't care who does it.

00:54:33.480 Like it's a, it's a sound reason to be like, Hey, don't dump lead and garbage in our water.

00:54:38.100 But at the same time, it's also to say, Hey, we should reassess what we blocked and why

00:54:41.880 we blocked it.

00:54:42.400 Then maybe there's some regulation.

00:54:43.800 What specifically are you talking about?

00:54:45.420 Like certain things to be deregulated.

00:54:47.540 Like, like what?

00:54:48.720 So the M1A for instance, right?

00:54:50.320 So I, I, I brought it to guns.

00:54:51.740 My point is just in general, what's the, what, what, it's a specific example of where

00:54:56.060 Democrats have regulated, uh, firearms in a way that makes literally no sense.

00:54:59.520 Okay.

00:54:59.880 It makes no sense.

00:55:00.540 What's the, and what's the downside here?

00:55:03.040 Making people felons for owning something while allowing.

00:55:06.100 How many of those people have, have been made felons by owning a.

00:55:09.760 10,000.

00:55:10.320 I don't know more.

00:55:10.880 10,000 felons.

00:55:12.100 There are 10,000 felons in, when was this in Maryland?

00:55:16.240 You mean convicted?

00:55:17.340 No, I, you said felon.

00:55:18.600 I'm just asking.

00:55:19.060 So, so again, uh, an example, uh, the, the pistol brace ruling, right?

00:55:23.920 So when the courts rule that pistol braces made a, a, a, a, a pistol, a short barreled

00:55:28.640 rifle, I actually had to dismantle a bunch of my weapons and separate.

00:55:33.500 And there was no law passed.

00:55:34.960 There was no act of Congress.

00:55:35.820 This was ATF making an arbitrary decision that I was now committing felonies for simply

00:55:41.020 having owned a legal product that I bought that was legal at the time.

00:55:44.320 And Congress never passed this law.

00:55:45.980 So now I risk prison over a nonsensical regulation.

00:55:49.460 You were talking about Democrats and over-regulating, over-regulating, but you just said that this

00:55:54.160 was not a law that was passed.

00:55:55.840 It was a, an assessment made by, by the courts.

00:55:59.060 No, it wasn't by the courts.

00:55:59.780 It was the ATF arbitrarily.

00:56:01.360 And have this, this is the Chevron ruling that the agencies have a right to self-regulate

00:56:05.280 and make, make their determinations.

00:56:06.840 So the ATF, this is, this is partly why people on the right were celebrating this because

00:56:11.300 the ATF was arbitrarily deciding that it was now a crime without any act of Congress.

00:56:15.840 So we had to actually, I had to, I had to go dismantle.

00:56:18.420 Aside from this, these instances with, you don't like some of these gun regulations, what,

00:56:24.500 what other regulations do you have a problem with?

00:56:28.020 I don't know.

00:56:28.660 I mean, there are certain things that I want to be regulated more than I, than I, that

00:56:32.260 I think about in terms of deregulation.

00:56:33.540 Uh, the, the lead in the water pipes is the easiest example.

00:56:37.260 The, uh, lead is, is actually, and why isn't it being enforced is the question, I suppose.

00:56:41.760 Well, it is being enforced.

00:56:42.920 I mean, the problem that what happened, uranium too.

00:56:44.920 What happened in, in, uh, in, in, in Michigan was that you had a Republican governor who wanted

00:56:51.840 to, uh, uh, uh, basically disempower a, uh, a city that was frankly, you know, um, uh, uh,

00:57:00.900 largely African-American, uh, city.

00:57:05.240 And, um.

00:57:06.800 I think gambling should be regulated.

00:57:08.340 I, I am no fan of the deregulation.

00:57:10.320 Uh, I think what we're, what, what, what, but I'm specifically, I get that you have some

00:57:15.460 issue with some like very marginal stuff, but what should not be regulated?

00:57:20.280 Like you said that there's, you have a problem with, with what Democrats are doing in terms

00:57:25.280 of regulation.

00:57:25.700 I'm curious as to, I think that's, that's an overestimation.

00:57:28.280 I think that I would, I said, well, I would like to see regulations reassessed and then,

00:57:33.060 uh, either.

00:57:34.180 But which ones, what are you talking about?

00:57:36.440 I'm saying we should have a review of, of regulation in general.

00:57:40.220 So you, you think we should review every single regulation that exists?

00:57:44.220 I think they should have sunset clauses.

00:57:46.960 Why?

00:57:48.140 Well, because they don't, nothing's infinite.

00:57:50.380 Nothing's absolute.

00:57:51.620 You know, we might say, for instance, uh, okay, I'll give you an example of regulation.

00:57:54.880 A lead's always going to be bad for people.

00:57:57.500 Yes.

00:57:59.160 Uh-huh.

00:57:59.760 So that one, we wouldn't sunset, right?

00:58:01.700 Agreed.

00:58:02.260 Okay.

00:58:02.900 Yeah.

00:58:03.180 Um, we're, we're, we're talking about if we apply a regulation to a specific body or

00:58:08.000 something, uh, a body of water, perhaps the body of water may change.

00:58:12.520 So give you an example, like we have, we have toxins in the water are always going to be

00:58:17.040 toxic, which is why I'm, like I said, I'm in fan, in favor of more regulation and that

00:58:21.860 the deregulation thing is just a safeguard on.

00:58:23.980 We shouldn't be making sure that we're not, that we're reassessing periodically.

00:58:28.280 Why would you sunset like those, like regulations on what is poisonous in water, for instance?

00:58:35.500 I wouldn't.

00:58:36.700 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:58:38.080 I thought you just said that.

00:58:38.640 That's what I said.

00:58:39.220 I think it's an overestimation of, I think you may overestimate what I'm trying to say.

00:58:42.740 Oh.

00:58:42.900 Is that typically I think like phthalates, for instance, should be regulated.

00:58:46.580 I don't believe that there's a quote unquote free market solution to keeping, uh, endocrine

00:58:50.420 disruptors in our food.

00:58:51.320 That makes no sense.

00:58:51.800 No, I agree with that.

00:58:52.640 I think God, I don't think that's controversial, but what there are regulations on things like,

00:58:56.880 uh, your vehicles, your, your engine standards, uh, guns, for instance.

00:59:00.820 And I'm not saying I know specifically each and every regulation that should be deregulated.

00:59:04.340 I think it is prudent for a society to say, Hey, there's no market solution to stop people

00:59:08.600 putting poison in our food.

00:59:10.040 Our food has become just trash, but there is a certain, still a circumstance where it's,

00:59:14.520 we do understand that, uh, not every government application is going to be permanent or will

00:59:20.100 work permanently.

00:59:20.840 And I can put it a different way.

00:59:23.380 There may come a point where the regulation isn't strong enough.

00:59:25.480 And if we don't reassess what the law is.

00:59:28.340 Oh, I have no problem with, uh, strengthening regulations.

00:59:31.320 I just, when you say deregulate or we should have a regulations sunset or anything like that.

00:59:37.380 I mean, it just depends on what understand that.

00:59:39.720 Like what we're talking about here is there is a battle between people who would profit

00:59:45.340 privately and socialize the costs.

00:59:48.880 In other words, put it on all of us.

00:59:51.240 So, um, you want to sell, well, let's just go back to Flint.

00:59:54.720 You want to sell the, you know, uh, the, the, you want privatized, uh, this water supply.

00:59:59.600 You want to give contracts to, uh, because this is what the Republican governor there wanted

01:00:03.680 to do and the costs associated in this instance, like, uh, they wanted to save money by not necessarily

01:00:13.380 treating the water or, uh, you know, by, um, uh, you know, delivering it in a way that

01:00:18.720 will save them money, but the costs are socialized insofar as you poisoned thousands of these

01:00:25.680 children.

01:00:26.080 I, I, so I went to Flint and, uh, I actually ran tests on the water and it's, it's crazy.

01:00:32.020 The, the macro economic issues at hand in Michigan and what, what ends up with like a Republican,

01:00:37.900 uh, uh, politician is that for, for a lot of the people that live in the area, they're

01:00:43.660 not directly impacted by what's happening to these kids.

01:00:45.940 Right.

01:00:46.800 For, for, for people who live outside the area, they're going to see the news and they're

01:00:49.280 going to say like, this is, how could this be possible?

01:00:51.680 And so what ends up happening is I, uh, uh, actually it was a, uh, a dude from Occupy

01:00:55.780 who was working up in Detroit, who was talking about the water crisis and the problem started

01:00:59.980 with population collapse when like, so he explained to me like this, you have a fixed water system

01:01:06.040 in the Detroit and the surrounding cities.

01:01:08.520 Let's say hypothetical numbers, 100 people live in an area, it's $10 per person per month

01:01:15.780 to run that fixed water system.

01:01:18.080 So, uh, what I said, 10, let's say 10 people and it's a hundred bucks a month.

01:01:22.420 Let's make it simple.

01:01:23.600 If five of those people leave, the fixed water costs remain the same.

01:01:28.080 And now it's 20 bucks per person.

01:01:30.920 Oh yeah.

01:01:31.120 No, I get that.

01:01:32.160 So what ended up happening is paying for that.

01:01:34.620 The city, the people who live there are paying the taxes to maintain it.

01:01:37.460 They're paying their water bills.

01:01:38.600 The, but, but because we have a private enterprise that's, that is getting in between the deliverance

01:01:45.180 of that water and the, the people that their profit margins go down.

01:01:49.500 I mean, if you go and you look at like, uh, you know, uh, activists there will also tell

01:01:53.420 you this was like a big privatization scheme.

01:01:56.180 I mean, this is the biggest problem that we're dealing with in my estimation around this country

01:01:59.600 is the, uh, is the, the movements to prioritize the idea that corporations can do.

01:02:07.460 Uh, something better than the government.

01:02:09.860 Look, all major enterprises have waste.

01:02:12.860 All major enterprises, uh, are, uh, in some fashion are going to be, uh, subjected to,

01:02:19.720 you know, abuse and fraud, whether it's a private corporation or a, uh, a government entity.

01:02:25.600 Yeah.

01:02:26.120 But why do we have, for instance, like, why do we have health insurance companies?

01:02:31.260 We don't need them.

01:02:32.900 We don't need them.

01:02:33.800 We know we have already run a massive experiment for now 60 years on, uh, a single payer health

01:02:42.720 insurance program and it's called Medicare and it's wildly successful to the extent that

01:02:47.860 it's not, it's only be because people have been trying to chip away and privatize different

01:02:51.340 parts of it.

01:02:51.860 But we're doing that already with a quarter of our country.

01:02:54.480 There's no reason why we shouldn't have single payer health insurance for everybody.

01:02:59.080 We don't need insurance companies.

01:03:01.060 People talk about bureaucrats getting in between your doctor and your health.

01:03:06.380 Anybody out there who has dealt with it and I'm old, you know, like I'm much older than

01:03:10.520 you are and everybody here, the, uh, dealing with your health insurance when you're younger,

01:03:16.820 you don't use it as much.

01:03:17.900 Right.

01:03:18.540 Dealing with your health insurance, talk about bureaucrats getting involved in this. 0.99

01:03:21.940 It's a huge pain in the ass and Medicare is a much easier program. 0.97

01:03:26.620 You know, what's really crazy is, uh, when I was working at, when I left vice and I went 0.98

01:03:30.580 to joint fusion, there was a week period where I was not employed and I got a kidney stone 0.57

01:03:34.360 and, uh, holy crap.

01:03:36.460 I had to go to the hospital and thankfully never had one since they tried charging me.

01:03:40.800 I think, what was it?

01:03:41.440 It was like, uh, uh, I think it was like what, 16, $18,000 for a three day stay.

01:03:47.760 And I was just like, what?

01:03:50.600 I laid in a bed, dude.

01:03:52.060 But here's, here's the best part.

01:03:53.540 I said, Hey, uh, I just switched employment.

01:03:57.000 So I don't have insurance.

01:03:57.960 And they went, Oh, no worries.

01:03:59.060 And then they sent me a bill for like 39.

01:04:00.840 Yeah.

01:04:01.160 And I'm like, wait, hold on, hold on.

01:04:03.300 Where did that money go?

01:04:05.540 Why were you trying to charge me that money?

01:04:07.820 How does that make sense at all?

01:04:09.640 In it, it literally doesn't.

01:04:11.020 The, uh, the problem is, is that, um, is that health insurance, there is no incentive

01:04:18.220 for insurance companies to keep costs low because they basically get a percentage of

01:04:24.040 what the expenses are.

01:04:25.840 Um, the way that you contain costs is by having a single payer that, uh, can look at the data

01:04:32.960 across the country and assess, is this a valid treatment or is that a valid treatment?

01:04:39.400 There's been, uh, you know, all sorts of like, uh, uh, studies on this and, um, uh, we

01:04:45.720 could save this country a tremendous amount of money longterm, but not just the country.

01:04:49.680 I'm saying like, you know, as individuals plus on top of which all the pain in the assets

01:04:53.880 associated with your, with your health insurance, then, you know, this is one of the things

01:04:57.820 this brings up like, you know, again, we have an election in three days. 0.99

01:05:01.620 I don't, uh, I don't, I think Donald Trump is, you know, is, is garbage, frankly, but 0.97

01:05:08.200 the real concern I have about Donald Trump becoming president is that it's going to empower 0.98

01:05:13.420 the Republican party.

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01:06:13.220 When you really care about someone, you shout it from the mountaintops.

01:06:18.280 So on behalf of Desjardins Insurance, I'm standing 20,000 feet above sea level to tell

01:06:22.860 our clients that we really care about you.

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01:06:39.160 Did I mention that we care?

01:06:40.600 Mike Johnson the other day said he's going to cut the ACA.

01:06:45.820 And now, aside from the fact that the Republicans tried to repeal the ACA like 50 times or whatever,

01:06:53.300 I don't care about that.

01:06:54.020 They're lying, by the way.

01:06:55.080 Well, they're lying because they have no ideas about this.

01:06:59.860 And to the extent that they're going to change anything.

01:07:01.480 I mean, Trump did, you know, attempt to do on the margins to disable the ACA.

01:07:07.960 There are three aspects of the ACA, and it was originally called the Patient Protection Affordable Care Act, PPACA.

01:07:19.480 They dropped the PP thing, which I think was a real problem, because that's actually what this law did better than anything else.

01:07:26.540 It won and expanded Medicaid.

01:07:28.420 So you had millions of people, low-income people, who had the ability.

01:07:33.140 Not every doctor takes Medicaid, but to the extent that they could get a provider.

01:07:38.100 Millions of people who had health insurance for the first time.

01:07:41.400 The other thing it did is it created these marketplaces.

01:07:46.600 This is sort of a right-wing, subsidized industry deal.

01:07:50.020 I think it's a useless, you know, it didn't lower the cost.

01:07:54.960 It bent the cost curve, but it basically just slowed the rate of increase on insurance.

01:07:59.460 I think we can do a lot better with a single-payer thing.

01:08:01.580 But the third thing it did, which is also the most important for us right here in this room, is the patient protection part.

01:08:09.140 But prior to this, you could be denied care because you had some type of pre-existing condition.

01:08:17.760 Pregnancy.

01:08:20.200 Diabetes.

01:08:20.900 Diabetes.

01:08:21.380 Diabetes.

01:08:22.320 I mean, really, just a whole list of things.

01:08:25.600 You could be denied care, or you could be charged an exorbitant amount.

01:08:30.220 The other thing that could happen is that, like you say, all of a sudden you have kidney stones.

01:08:35.980 80% of the cost of health insurance in this country is borne by 20% of the people.

01:08:41.360 And you don't know if you're going to be one out of five.

01:08:45.400 But if you are, it's going to end up costing you $18,000 or you're hit by a bus.

01:08:50.140 The insurance companies used to say you have an annual limit.

01:08:56.740 So, oh, you got hit by a bus.

01:08:58.860 You're in the hospital for two or three months.

01:09:00.460 I'm sorry, buddy, but you just ran out of your health insurance.

01:09:04.380 Or annually.

01:09:05.820 I mean, excuse me, lifetime.

01:09:07.560 So, you get cancer.

01:09:09.060 Your treatment costs this amount.

01:09:10.820 Not only have you exhausted it for the year, you've done it.

01:09:13.080 But when Mike Johnson says he's going to cut the ACA, what they're talking about.

01:09:19.040 And when he said, we're going to, you know, not everybody needs this insurance.

01:09:22.420 Young people maybe feel like they don't need this health insurance.

01:09:25.180 When they do that, the only way for them to do that is to raise prices on everybody else.

01:09:32.320 And so, the whole point of insurance is that I may not need it in my 20s in the way that I would need it in my 50s.

01:09:40.580 But I'm going to be 50.

01:09:43.780 And so, it smooths it out.

01:09:46.080 I think.

01:09:47.060 And that's the whole point.

01:09:47.900 And that's why I really am, you know, again, with my hesitation about Harris, because of, you know, particularly in terms of Gaza, which we can talk about in a moment if you want.

01:09:58.080 But putting the Republicans in power, they have gotten progressively worse on all of these issues over the past 20 years.

01:10:07.180 There are two things, I think, that play a role with the ACA especially.

01:10:10.880 We had a Republican on IRL, and he just said, they came to me and told me not to vote in favor of it.

01:10:17.140 They said, specifically, it's a wedge issue we want to campaign on, so let's keep it around.

01:10:21.720 This is what I see with the bulk of politicians.

01:10:24.860 They're just pretending to support things.

01:10:27.140 And then they dangled.

01:10:27.800 I mean, Obama said he wanted to codify Roe, and then he didn't.

01:10:31.000 And it's been a talking point for a long time.

01:10:32.540 I mean, the thing that Obama expended all of his political capital on was the ACA, and I think they did want to codify Roe.

01:10:41.140 But I don't think, frankly, I mean, I can tell you that in talking to, you know, people in that world, they never thought the Supreme Court would overturn it.

01:10:49.800 I definitely want to get into that, but I want to add one more thing, too, is what the Republicans and Democrats have both privately been saying is, and this is funny, because I think one of the arguments against these major health care,

01:10:59.200 I shouldn't say health care, but, like, insurance companies is the bloat and bureaucracy that is created in the system, which seems to solve nothing but actually cost us money.

01:11:08.340 And then you hear these politicians have actually said, you know, a large portion of our economy is these health insurance systems.

01:11:15.320 And so if we were to do away with it, you're going to lose all of these bureaucratic middle managers.

01:11:21.120 And I'm like, they're concerned about getting reelected if there is a perceived economic downturn from loss of jobs.

01:11:27.960 No, I mean, none of that is an argument for or against health care.

01:11:31.440 No, I don't even I don't think that's the case, because because there's going to be you're going to need people to to administer this stuff.

01:11:41.400 I mean, a lot of people in the health care industry would would still have jobs.

01:11:46.180 It's just that they would be either the government would contract to them as it's done, you know, to a certain extent now to do this work.

01:11:55.800 It's just that we would not have shareholders who are who, you know, where 10 percent of what's going on or 20 percent of what's going on is a function of shareholders.

01:12:05.840 Let me ask you a question, though. So there was a story, I think it was out of Georgia, where some young kid had a genetic disorder and there was a treatment.

01:12:12.300 But it's some kind of like rare genetic treatment that cost a million dollars to produce.

01:12:16.860 And the family had sued the state saying that the state should pay for this because it's part of a plan that they had with government benefits and like that.

01:12:23.780 And the state argued we can't pay a million dollars every time we have to do this treatment.

01:12:28.060 And so the challenge then becomes treatments for diseases go so far as technology can allow.

01:12:34.720 I'm sure there's grant programs and ways we can develop technology.

01:12:37.700 But what do we do if we do, say, like single payer health care and there's 10 people who have a rare genetic disorder that's killing them, but one treatment available?

01:12:46.740 How do we assess? Is it like a triage system? How do we how do we distribute that?

01:12:51.440 Or how is it distributed now?

01:12:53.220 Rich people.

01:12:53.800 Well, OK, I mean, look, I mean, there's some I'm not saying that, you know, that, you know, sickness is going to go away with a single payer, a single payer health care program.

01:13:03.680 But the bottom line is, is that fundamentally more people will have better coverage and ultimately more money in their pockets, despite the fact that we'll have to tax more for it.

01:13:18.340 But over the course of their lifetime, we'll have more money in their pockets and will not have the insecurity that comes with losing their job, wondering whether or not, like you say, in between jobs, they will not have the headaches of like, oh, my insurance company has dropped me this year or I've got new programs or I have new things.

01:13:36.480 I mean, that's you will find after your kid is born that half of your time is spent on like all of this, like bureaucracy in the private health care.

01:13:48.500 And what if what if instead of taxing more, we just reallocated existing taxes, theoretically lowering it in some areas, we will reallocate existing taxes because people pay a lot already.

01:13:58.140 Right. We we do that, though. I don't think so. I mean, if you look at taxation relative to like the 1950s, you know what the you know, what the top marginal tax rate was?

01:14:08.200 Ninety eight percent. In in in. All they did was pull loopholes and other BS to.

01:14:12.140 No, actually, that's not true. The the. No, it isn't.

01:14:16.260 If you you can actually. Well, I can tell you right now, some of your libertarians.

01:14:22.780 Let me explain something real quick. If the government came and told me they were taxing me at 100 percent, I wouldn't pay any of those taxes.

01:14:27.940 It's never going to happen. If if the government is taxing you 100 percent, you will not work.

01:14:31.820 You will not pay for those taxes and you'll not get it. I will. I will work. I will make money.

01:14:35.720 And so the issue is you will commit crime. No, no.

01:14:39.040 It's Donald Trump brought this up in 2016 when he was like, we we we utilize the system as it exists to avoid paying through the mechanisms.

01:14:46.520 For example, in the 1950s and I get it.

01:14:49.720 No, no. There's a million dollar deduction for equipment, for instance.

01:14:52.480 So value earned can be retained outside of the U.S. dollar without paying taxes on it.

01:14:56.340 Great. This is what a lot of people do. So they can tax as high as they want.

01:14:59.040 But wealthy people will always get around it and poor people can't.

01:15:02.920 In the 50s and 60s, the highest marginal tax rate over four hundred and seventy thousand dollars if you earned, which would be equivalent to about three million dollars a day.

01:15:12.500 Every dollar over that was taxed at a 90 percent rate.

01:15:16.440 We had the greatest economic expansion this country has seen during that that time period.

01:15:21.560 Now, part of it obviously has to do with, like, you know, post-war or World War Two.

01:15:25.700 There's a lot of factors. But the tax rate did not inhibit any of that growth.

01:15:31.140 The effective tax rate.

01:15:32.900 No, I agree.

01:15:33.440 The effective tax rate.

01:15:34.900 The effective.

01:15:36.260 The effective tax rate.

01:15:39.060 It was 50 percent. 0.70

01:15:41.300 So that includes all the deductions, all of the hijinks that's associated with that, the loopholes and whatnot.

01:15:48.120 Fifty percent for people, for those high earning.

01:15:53.620 So, you know, I don't need to raise taxes on people who are making.

01:15:57.160 We're not we don't need to argue this because I don't think there's any point of contention.

01:16:00.380 I'm saying that if you go to people and say we want to give you health care, but it's going to raise your taxes.

01:16:04.480 They're going to recoil in horror, whether it whether it's good for them or bad for them.

01:16:07.880 I think Bernie Sanders was on the way of of making that argument.

01:16:11.460 But if you, you know, if you and I advocate for a single payer health care and we get other people to advocate for a single payer health care, we can do this.

01:16:20.820 Are we are you we on board?

01:16:22.440 So I have your pledge right now to support a single payer health care system.

01:16:27.340 Depends on the structure of the single payer health care system.

01:16:29.520 I I'm for you in in in principle.

01:16:32.340 I would like to see a private option and a public option.

01:16:35.140 I think it's fine if we have what I call universal basic health care where, you know, I don't think you need to outlaw private health care.

01:16:43.860 But would you agree that we need to make we need to make sure that if you're licensed to practice medicine is a function of having, let's say, 90 percent of your clients accept 90 percent of your payments from Medicare?

01:16:58.760 I don't know if I'm smart enough to answer that question.

01:17:00.780 Hmm. Try then. Just trust me.

01:17:03.060 What I can say is it makes no sense that a kid gets the flu and dies in this day and age.

01:17:10.540 It makes no sense that a kid will break his leg and then the hospital says, sorry, you don't have the right coverage for this.

01:17:16.340 These are basic things that, you know, first year medical students could help treat.

01:17:20.260 And we have ample Tamiflu and things like this.

01:17:23.020 So those stories piss me off, especially insulin, for instance.

01:17:25.520 You know, people who are diabetic, there was one story where a guy.

01:17:27.820 Well, you know, who capped insulin, don't you?

01:17:29.920 It was a price, right?

01:17:30.960 Yeah.

01:17:31.640 There was a guy who had, I think he was diabetic and he had to choose between rent or insulin.

01:17:37.980 Sure. Oh, I don't think it's just a guy.

01:17:40.380 Right. Exactly.

01:17:40.980 There's a lot of people that. 0.61

01:17:41.960 To me, it's silly and it makes no sense.

01:17:44.120 But my point was simply as a way to segue to American foreign policy and our gross spending on wars that don't provide for the American people.

01:17:53.880 If we start by saying, hey, look, we don't need to raise your taxes.

01:17:56.960 We just don't need to build as many tanks.

01:17:58.600 Instead of building tanks, we're going to build, I don't know, factories for insulin and hospitals and hire medical workers.

01:18:04.200 I don't believe, I mean, frankly, we don't need taxes to spend money.

01:18:11.300 We have shown that.

01:18:12.780 Okay.

01:18:13.360 I mean, we.

01:18:14.120 Well, yeah, we don't.

01:18:14.880 It's right.

01:18:15.680 We don't.

01:18:16.060 Taxes are basically just.

01:18:17.040 We don't.

01:18:17.440 We're a sovereign.

01:18:18.280 I mean, you know, this is somewhat unique to the United States because we have such control over our currency and it is essentially the world's currency.

01:18:26.920 Not for long.

01:18:27.700 Well, I mean, you know, people have been saying that for decades.

01:18:31.060 We'll see about that.

01:18:32.060 But Saudis dropped the petrodollar.

01:18:33.320 I understand.

01:18:34.200 But the bottom line is, is that the reason why we would have taxes in the way that I suggest is to essentially make it illegal to have this type of wealth disparity in our society.

01:18:51.200 I'm okay with some wealth disparity.

01:18:53.240 That's fine.

01:18:54.120 But the bottom line is we have such enormous wealth disparity.

01:18:57.840 The Fed came out with a report a couple of weeks ago.

01:19:00.180 The reason why the economic numbers look so good, and they do, our economy, economic numbers look good relative to the way that we have measured the economy over years.

01:19:12.320 But the reason why they look so good is because of the tremendous wealth disparity we have in this country where very rich people are driving consumer spending.

01:19:24.320 And so taxation for me is a mechanism in which to inhibit wealth disparity.

01:19:31.520 So there's 50-50, yes, I agree. 0.97

01:19:34.740 And then there's other contextual components to it.

01:19:37.300 When the tax rate goes up, for instance, like I mentioned, there's a million dollar per year tax deduction for equipment for a company.

01:19:44.040 Well, all that means is if there's a guy who runs a business, and he makes a million dollars profit, and you're telling him once the year rolls over, he's got to give 40% or whatever that number is to the government, he's going to go buy a million dollars worth of motorcycles for the business.

01:19:59.480 And then there's depreciation.

01:20:01.660 But then he just says, if it applies to the business.

01:20:04.900 Now, what that does do is the people who make the motorcycles are getting jobs.

01:20:09.980 Yeah, exactly.

01:20:11.100 I have no problem with taxation also causing wealthy people to stop hoarding money.

01:20:16.680 They're hoarding money.

01:20:17.260 That's my point.

01:20:18.000 A lot of people think, like, oh, if you tax these businesses, they're not going to hire them.

01:20:21.320 I'm like, no, it's the other way around.

01:20:22.480 If you tell a company that they're going to lose a million dollars at the end of the year, they're going to spend it on something to retain the value of the money they earned.

01:20:30.420 So rich people end up saying—

01:20:31.940 They're going to reinvest it in their business.

01:20:34.060 Yes, or create new businesses.

01:20:35.480 I do not see a reality where that makes sense, where someone's like, I'm going to—

01:20:40.080 You don't think it makes sense to create new businesses?

01:20:42.640 No, I'm saying there's no reality where a rich person says, I'm going to keep a million dollars in the bank and then give half to the government.

01:20:47.100 They're going to say, I'm going to buy a million dollars worth of stuff so I can retain the value that I've earned.

01:20:51.660 The tax doesn't matter.

01:20:52.880 He's going to reinvest it in some way that allows him to retain the value without giving it to the government, which is what—

01:20:58.360 I mean, I don't mind taxation that gets rich people to reinvest in capital expenditures.

01:21:09.780 But we have millionaires and billionaires who are sitting on money and just dumping it into the stock market.

01:21:16.140 So if you're suggesting to me that capital gains should be—capital gains tax should be raised to where it is with wages, we are in agreement.

01:21:25.660 The challenge with the stock market is 401ks.

01:21:29.740 It's all bundled together.

01:21:30.980 So you've got wealthy investors who are just creating these massive portfolios where they're extracting value from systems that provide nothing.

01:21:37.340 And then you have retirees.

01:21:39.280 So this is where it's coupled, I guess.

01:21:43.480 That's a challenge in—

01:21:44.720 I mean, there's been an attempt by Wall Street to get more people in that boat, but we still have like 80 percent of the stocks are owned by like, I don't know, 10, 20 percent of the people.

01:21:55.500 I mean, it's completely unbalanced.

01:21:58.180 I agree with that.

01:22:01.020 People who—

01:22:02.120 Join me in calling for a much higher marginal tax right at the high end and capital gains and wage taxes being the same.

01:22:10.420 And we could talk about Social Security and—

01:22:11.920 I know you want to get to foreign policy.

01:22:13.620 So I've been a fan of—so I think one of the challenges, what's the top tax rates, 250 above, $250,000 and more?

01:22:20.040 I think they changed it a couple years ago or something.

01:22:21.900 They might have increased it.

01:22:23.320 But you had a long time ago, $250,000 is a lot of money, you know, if we go back 50 or whatever years.

01:22:28.720 And they're like, okay, so after 250, you're taxed at a higher rate.

01:22:31.360 I've been for a long time in favor of—we've got to create more scales in the progressive tax rate.

01:22:37.840 Well, look, like I said, in 1950s and 60s, $470,000, 90 percent tax rate for every dollar made over that.

01:22:48.500 That's the way that marginal taxes work.

01:22:50.760 But that number would be $3 million today.

01:22:53.260 So I would be okay with doing $3 million.

01:22:55.800 So on paper, I say this, right?

01:22:57.340 And then, of course, people are going to say, oh, why is Tim now saying we should have a higher—the problem then is when you run to the other wall of foreign policy.

01:23:04.360 What is the utilization of taxes for?

01:23:07.460 The first thing you need to understand is the way the U.S. government uses money.

01:23:10.940 People think that you get taxed and the government spends the money.

01:23:13.060 It's not how it works.

01:23:13.660 The government will issue debts or whatever or agree to make payments, tax you, and then later cover those.

01:23:18.880 Or there's fractional reserve monetary creation where they literally just create the debt upon the—the money upon the issuance of debt.

01:23:26.740 So taxation does correlate directly with government spending, but it's not one-to-one.

01:23:30.300 The issue I take is, I don't know, all of the money we're spending on foreign policy for the purpose of propping up the petrodollar.

01:23:38.260 And I understand the arguments.

01:23:40.100 So you're talking about the $260 billion we've given Israel over 30 years?

01:23:44.780 Absolutely.

01:23:45.820 And Ukraine over the past two years.

01:23:48.400 For what—the argument—it's the neolib neocon, or whatever you want to call it, of maintaining support for the petrodollar, which allows us, like you were mentioning, with control of this currency,

01:23:58.460 we can spend in ways other countries can't.

01:24:01.980 As long as we maintain the petrodollar, we do not need to maintain exports at the same rate of spending like other countries do, because—world police, I guess.

01:24:11.740 And so what ends up happening is with, for instance, what we're seeing with Ukraine is all correlating with the Qatar-Turkey pipeline trying to offset the gas prime gas monopoly in Europe.

01:24:21.140 Effectively, the simple answer is maintain petrodollar against adversaries of the petrodollar.

01:24:26.080 Do you think that—and I want to turn to your opinion on Israel—but do you think that the United States wanted Russia to invade Ukraine?

01:24:37.960 No.

01:24:39.120 Absolutely not.

01:24:40.960 So you're familiar with the Qatar-Turkey pipeline?

01:24:43.640 Not particularly.

01:24:44.880 I harp on it quite a bit.

01:24:46.620 It is one—it's a limited component of the ongoing conflict from the Middle East into Europe.

01:24:51.680 But in 2009, I think it was, the United States was trying to build a pipeline from Qatar through Syria-Turkey into Europe, which would help offset the gas prom—gas monopoly.

01:25:01.960 Gas prom controls about 20 percent.

01:25:04.040 Syria said no.

01:25:05.200 Syria said, quite literally—and this is a quote—oh, I'm paraphrasing their quote—

01:25:09.420 We are—our ally, Russia, would never allow us to allow this to go through our country.

01:25:14.580 Lucky for the United States that a civil war just happened to occur, and Bashar al-Assad was the enemy of the United States who was gassing his own people. 0.79

01:25:21.040 And—

01:25:21.640 Were you in support of Obama not wanting to get involved in that?

01:25:27.160 To—I don't know enough specifically, but what I would say is we should not have been involved in Syria.

01:25:31.540 Correct.

01:25:31.940 We—the United States' interest is, for a lot of the spending we do, is to prop up the petrodollar, militaristically or otherwise.

01:25:42.060 And we were trying to compete with Russia on natural gas.

01:25:45.820 This is why we wanted a foothold in Ukraine.

01:25:48.180 After the Qatar-Turkey pipeline fails, what ends up happening is Russia, Iran, and Turkey started cutting a deal to run a pipeline from the same gas field.

01:25:59.320 That was also problematic about Trump getting out of the Iran nuke deal unilaterally in that respect, right?

01:26:05.840 Because we have now pushed Iran further away into that sphere of influence. 0.94

01:26:12.740 As it pertains to the gas trade-offs and the conflicts in Europe, I don't know.

01:26:18.220 I wouldn't know enough.

01:26:19.120 I can say that even during Obama, the Stuxnet was probably a really bad idea.

01:26:23.040 Are you familiar with Stuxnet?

01:26:23.920 Yeah, that was Israel.

01:26:24.640 Israel and the United States teamed up to create a virus that blew up centrifuges in Iran, which—act of war much. 0.76

01:26:30.420 I'm surprised it didn't escalate in a dangerous way.

01:26:32.200 Yeah, I mean, but fortunately, one of the best things that Obama did was to make that nuke deal. 0.99

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01:28:05.280 Let me ask you this, since you bring up Russia.

01:28:08.620 Yeah.

01:28:08.940 Do you feel like that you have to put some type of disclaimer because of the whole tenant thing or no?

01:28:15.860 No.

01:28:16.300 No.

01:28:17.240 I never received money from Russia.

01:28:20.280 We never were given any money to create anything.

01:28:23.280 Tenant media and America...

01:28:23.920 It was all laundered through tenant media.

01:28:26.240 I mean, obviously, you weren't getting paid in rubles.

01:28:29.440 So I can try and...

01:28:31.100 Right.

01:28:31.380 I'll keep it real simple.

01:28:32.620 You have sponsors on your show?

01:28:34.400 Did you ever ask who their investors are?

01:28:36.980 The sponsors?

01:28:38.040 Yeah.

01:28:38.280 Like a company comes to you and says, we want to, you know, have you shout us out or something.

01:28:41.660 Do you like look into their financiers?

01:28:43.340 Do you dig through their bank accounts?

01:28:45.440 I mean, we get it all from media brokers, but they weren't advertising on your show.

01:28:51.000 They were...

01:28:51.380 No, it was a non-experte.

01:28:51.980 They were paying you a license deal.

01:28:53.940 A license fee.

01:28:54.720 Yeah.

01:28:55.020 So I licensed to Netgeo.

01:28:56.160 I never asked them who their investors were.

01:28:58.320 Who?

01:28:58.980 National Geographic?

01:29:00.020 Yeah.

01:29:01.400 When I licensed to, like, all these other big distributors, someone comes to me.

01:29:06.380 They say, we want a license.

01:29:07.340 It goes to our lawyer.

01:29:08.040 Our lawyer comes back, says, here's the agreed upon fee.

01:29:09.860 I say, thank you and have a nice day.

01:29:10.780 And then we move on.

01:29:11.360 So was it just Ruben who asked who Gerard Depardieu or whatever that guy's name was?

01:29:18.720 I don't know what Dave did or anybody else did.

01:29:22.220 Did you ask about who that guy was?

01:29:24.020 Absolutely.

01:29:24.380 And you know what's crazy is...

01:29:25.400 Wait a second.

01:29:26.060 Why did you ask about who that guy was?

01:29:28.560 Wanted to know.

01:29:29.540 Isn't that due diligence?

01:29:31.000 Yeah, but you just said you don't ask who the investors are.

01:29:33.420 No, I said, do you?

01:29:34.940 Like, do you dig into all of these things?

01:29:36.540 I've never actually been approached with anything even remotely like that.

01:29:40.520 So when I got reached out to, like, by Discovery and Netgeo, I said, I'm familiar with what this is.

01:29:46.020 Oh, yeah.

01:29:46.600 No, if a...

01:29:48.180 I mean, I licensed my show to Peacock and...

01:29:51.660 You know what they are.

01:29:53.160 Well, yeah.

01:29:53.500 I mean, National Geographic is a well-known thing.

01:29:56.680 But if somebody comes in and says, like, we're going to give you that kind of money for your programming, I'd be like...

01:30:02.280 How much money do you make on Majority Report? 0.99

01:30:04.080 What the fuck is that? 0.99

01:30:05.100 How much money do you make on Majority Report? 1.00

01:30:06.520 How much do I make from...

01:30:08.060 From...

01:30:08.520 On our revenue from the whole show?

01:30:11.000 All of it, 100%.

01:30:12.000 I mean, it's six...

01:30:14.520 Six figures a month?

01:30:15.620 Six figures in revenue, yeah.

01:30:16.980 Per month?

01:30:17.300 Yeah.

01:30:19.100 So why were you...

01:30:19.980 Six figures.

01:30:20.560 Yeah.

01:30:20.900 So you're over 100K per month on Majority Report?

01:30:23.980 I think, well, I mean, some months.

01:30:26.680 I mean, certainly the past couple of months have been really good.

01:30:29.500 Some months are a little bit less.

01:30:31.300 I think you do Majority...

01:30:32.600 I don't know about your other channels, but you do about 20 million per month in views.

01:30:35.460 Other channels?

01:30:36.300 Like, I don't know if you have other shows.

01:30:37.500 I'm saying Majority Report does about 20 million.

01:30:39.320 That's it.

01:30:39.720 And with 20 million views per month, you do over six figures.

01:30:44.120 We had 20 million views over...

01:30:48.060 For two months this year.

01:30:49.980 If you do...

01:30:51.300 20 million views per month, I think, is your YouTube metric.

01:30:55.120 Well, I mean, it's a little bit less now, but okay.

01:30:57.380 Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:30:57.980 If a company came to you and wanted to license the show, which would...

01:31:02.340 I can tell you Peacock licensed Majority Report for...

01:31:05.780 We were on Peacock for a year.

01:31:07.780 Do you want to say what they gave you?

01:31:09.160 I will tell you this.

01:31:10.880 From what I read, you made more in a month than we made in a year.

01:31:15.080 Maybe that's just bad business on your part, I guess.

01:31:17.220 Maybe.

01:31:18.280 Or maybe it turns out that they were just a company who had metrics as opposed to, like,

01:31:23.040 were trying to get propaganda.

01:31:24.960 No, I think...

01:31:27.000 See, I have a theory about this.

01:31:28.300 I can tell you how much money we make at this company, right?

01:31:31.200 I would imagine it's millions.

01:31:32.840 Million per month, maybe.

01:31:34.140 Okay.

01:31:34.540 So when a company comes to me and says, we want to have you, who makes, as a company,

01:31:39.160 a million dollars a month, a show in which we will have a non-exclusive distribution,

01:31:44.180 but takes the branding, then we're going to say, in one or two years, how much do we

01:31:48.280 make on this show per month?

01:31:49.780 Well, it's in excess of 400,000.

01:31:52.300 This was a new show.

01:31:53.260 This was this show, right?

01:31:54.200 Well, so here's a few caveats.

01:31:56.780 This channel is my first channel.

01:31:58.720 It's got 1.35 million subscribers.

01:32:01.080 It used to be my biggest channel where I would routinely get half a million to a million per

01:32:05.760 video, or, you know, maybe like 600,000 per video on certain shows.

01:32:10.700 And then we're talking about doing a show like this, where you'll get, you know, you

01:32:15.260 have a million, a million five subscribers.

01:32:17.040 I've got a million plus subscribers.

01:32:18.480 Or with the other channels, it's big.

01:32:19.480 Big names coming, doing these debates, tends to attract a lot of sponsorship.

01:32:23.860 Have you had any other deals like this?

01:32:27.100 Yes.

01:32:28.300 Oh, you have had other deals like this?

01:32:30.240 Because I seem to remember you saying to Emma that it was just all from members or you

01:32:38.420 didn't have any backers.

01:32:41.440 There's no, there's no backers, right?

01:32:43.320 It's a tenant.

01:32:44.040 A license deal is not a sponsorship.

01:32:46.200 Like, I mean, I have sponsors.

01:32:48.080 Like I have, well, it's different.

01:32:50.520 No one has come to this company.

01:32:52.880 Let's clarify.

01:32:53.900 Hello, Tushy comes and says, we want to sell bidets.

01:32:56.400 Here's the difference.

01:32:57.120 I do an ad, but I don't have a license.

01:32:58.280 No one, no one has come to my companies, plural, and said, I will give you X in exchange for 0.89

01:33:03.180 X in terms of the production of content or a stake in, in the company.

01:33:07.640 We have no investors.

01:33:09.020 We have no backing.

01:33:10.360 We have sales.

01:33:12.080 Like I, like I, like you had other license deals like that.

01:33:14.120 I'm not talking about a sponsor.

01:33:16.520 Tenant Media was not a sponsor.

01:33:18.240 It was, it was a non-exclusive distribution license.

01:33:20.540 Yeah.

01:33:20.760 It was a license deal.

01:33:21.880 Yeah.

01:33:22.060 Yeah.

01:33:22.320 No, I get that.

01:33:23.320 So have you had other license deals like that?

01:33:25.340 Yes.

01:33:25.640 And so this is not, I mean, I'm just curious.

01:33:29.740 Well, I got to wait because some of these deals are still in contract negotiations.

01:33:33.200 So I can't.

01:33:33.820 Oh, so you didn't have any prior to the tenant or you did.

01:33:37.060 I have licensed content to big networks.

01:33:39.340 We have explicitly and on a low scale.

01:33:42.760 So prior to this, you had licensed it to other big networks.

01:33:47.180 I'm confused as well.

01:33:48.240 I have licensed my content to other big networks.

01:33:50.760 Prior to the tenant.

01:33:51.920 Yes.

01:33:52.440 Yes.

01:33:52.580 And we also, what were those networks?

01:33:54.300 So like Netgeo and Discovery when they hired me for content?

01:33:57.840 No, no, I'm talking about these shows.

01:33:59.840 I'm not talking about when you were, you know, I'm talking about, you know, the whole Timcast world. 1.00

01:34:05.200 Before Tenant, there were three negotiations currently taking place.

01:34:09.240 And I can't say too much because this, I can't violate other contracts.

01:34:13.920 Offers were made.

01:34:14.860 You're not supposed to tell who you're licensing to?

01:34:18.060 When you were in contract negotiations, first, you don't go out and just say, hey, guess what?

01:34:25.060 This company is offering me right now.

01:34:26.100 No, of course not.

01:34:26.740 Of course not.

01:34:27.540 I'm not asking what you're in negotiations for for the future.

01:34:32.380 I'm saying prior to Tenant Media.

01:34:35.260 Had you had any other license deals?

01:34:38.080 License deals presented that were comparable and one was chosen.

01:34:41.820 Okay.

01:34:42.280 And some are ongoing.

01:34:43.340 So you never had any other deals.

01:34:45.060 People had proposed them to you, but you'd never signed a deal.

01:34:47.800 With higher rates.

01:34:49.260 We were offered more money from other companies.

01:34:51.160 And you went with Tenant?

01:34:52.280 Yes.

01:34:52.800 For a license deal?

01:34:54.220 I was offered a license agreement for comparable.

01:34:58.580 I try to keep it vague, I guess.

01:35:00.180 So just to be clear, you never signed another deal before Tenant.

01:35:05.200 You had never had a license deal prior to that as Timcast.

01:35:09.160 No, no, no.

01:35:09.600 Okay, look.

01:35:10.520 Yes, I did.

01:35:11.680 I said it like five times now.

01:35:13.220 Oh.

01:35:13.660 I've licensed content to a ton of networks.

01:35:16.060 Oh, I was just curious as to what networks those were.

01:35:19.040 I don't know why you're getting so upset.

01:35:21.020 Because I've said it five times.

01:35:22.080 You keep asking the same question over and over again.

01:35:23.460 But you said Nat Geo.

01:35:24.860 So I've licensed content to like Discovery Net Geo.

01:35:26.920 And then there's media buyers who do general.

01:35:28.500 But not as Timcast.

01:35:29.460 Yes, just quite literally as Timcast.

01:35:31.380 From this channel.

01:35:32.320 Oh, really?

01:35:32.920 To Nat Geo?

01:35:33.640 Okay.

01:35:34.380 Yes.

01:35:34.760 And I've even appeared on their networks.

01:35:37.940 So I can say it a million times.

01:35:40.820 We were dealing with negotiations.

01:35:44.060 We give the deal to our lawyers.

01:35:46.380 Our lawyers come back and say, looks good.

01:35:48.820 And then we start.

01:35:49.620 The show already existed.

01:35:50.620 No, I never thought that you were in the bag for...

01:35:58.000 Well, I mean, I never thought they were telling you what to do.

01:36:01.980 I just thought it was a lot of money to be getting, you know, and not asking who, you know,

01:36:09.820 Gerard Depardieu was or whatever the guy's name.

01:36:12.060 Gregorian.

01:36:12.480 So the issue, I think, is worthy of clarification is like you yourself make six figures a month on your show.

01:36:19.260 Well, that's our revenue of the show.

01:36:21.280 I don't make that.

01:36:22.660 Right.

01:36:22.880 The revenue of this show and otherwise like a million dollars is going to my pocket every month.

01:36:27.000 But we have staff and we have employees.

01:36:28.900 And so it's around there.

01:36:30.580 So when a company comes and we had several and they say, this is huge.

01:36:35.520 We had a $30 million offer.

01:36:36.500 Are you back in negotiations with those people?

01:36:38.380 Yes.

01:36:39.040 I would imagine.

01:36:39.840 Especially considering...

01:36:40.680 It feels like you've had to...

01:36:41.960 Like, what was this whole thing?

01:36:43.000 Were you shutting down the show or...

01:36:44.520 That's exactly what I was going to say, right?

01:36:45.820 Like, I can't be the CEO, the principal talent, and a dad.

01:36:53.060 It's already difficult to do.

01:36:55.320 Maybe I'm not such a bad businessman.

01:36:57.900 Maybe you're a good dad.

01:36:58.680 I got two kids and...

01:37:01.040 But whatever.

01:37:01.700 That's it.

01:37:01.960 Well, so, like, I've got to record four shows today.

01:37:05.660 And that's an impossibility with a kid.

01:37:08.140 Mm-hmm.

01:37:08.620 So that's why, you know, like last week, I'm like, I can keep doing the morning show because that will keep me occupied.

01:37:14.740 You shut down your news operation too, didn't you?

01:37:18.360 Scanner is still in operation, but it's like...

01:37:22.400 Didn't you have, like, a news, like, a website or something?

01:37:26.200 Yeah, we still do.

01:37:26.820 We still do.

01:37:27.740 And so there was...

01:37:29.000 We did Timcast News for a while, and then we had another company called Scanner that we are trying to get off the ground, and it's still there, but we're in a holding pattern.

01:37:39.660 Content is still being produced for Scanner, but we have to figure out, like, here's the reality, man.

01:37:45.540 News articles, the news media is a very, very difficult thing to monetize.

01:37:49.780 Very tough.

01:37:50.520 Very tough.

01:37:50.900 You can write articles all day and night.

01:37:52.300 You can send reporters on the ground, which we do, and then figuring out how to make that sustainable is incredibly difficult, and it gets to that point where, you know, we can't.

01:37:59.140 But I will say, in regards to what happened Monday last week, oh, yeah.

01:38:04.500 So one of the offers we got was $30 million, and it comes with caveats.

01:38:09.440 And so we go to these other companies and say, what are your terms?

01:38:11.920 What are your offers?

01:38:12.420 What are your terms?

01:38:12.880 What are your offers?

01:38:13.260 And then, ultimately, Tenet was, we were like, we'll go with them.

01:38:17.520 That's just whatever.

01:38:18.560 We go to our lawyer.

01:38:19.420 Our lawyer goes through it.

01:38:20.380 We say, all right.

01:38:21.020 So Tenet didn't pay $30 million, did they?

01:38:23.700 No.

01:38:24.300 No.

01:38:24.520 It sounds like they paid a hefty amount.

01:38:29.080 I mean, if you're Dave Rubin, what do you think about that?

01:38:31.840 Like, I mean, if you're Dave Rubin and somebody says, we're going to give you $100,000 a video, doesn't that, like, make you go, like, what's up with this?

01:38:39.560 No, because what's interesting in the indictment is you can see that, independent of each other, several people made the same negotiations.

01:38:46.120 A lot of this goes through agents, and agents go to a market standard rate when you're negotiating.

01:38:50.220 I mean, I understand.

01:38:51.320 I mean, I've dealt with agents.

01:38:53.500 But you don't set your price.

01:38:55.320 I mean, your agent's going to tell you what you're going to be able to get from something, right?

01:38:59.280 Or do you go to your agent?

01:39:00.640 You could go to your agent and say, I'll only do the job for this amount.

01:39:02.800 I get it.

01:39:03.580 But usually, it's going to be like, look, this is the kind of job that's going to pay in range of here.

01:39:07.680 The company's got this much.

01:39:08.640 Here's what you're going to be able to get for it.

01:39:10.320 So, for instance, like 500,000 views might be $10,000 in ads, right?

01:39:16.100 Okay.

01:39:16.700 That's market standard.

01:39:18.140 So, if you're talking CPM, and I call, like, an ad sales guy, and they say, hey, this company wants to sponsor you.

01:39:24.720 You get $500,000 on the show.

01:39:26.700 They're going to give you $10,000.

01:39:28.060 I can say, right, that's the market range.

01:39:31.740 And so, then I might try and argue a premium and be like, well, I'm Tim Poole, so I think you should give me $15,000.

01:39:35.700 And then they'll come back and say no.

01:39:36.820 We're not talking about sponsorships.

01:39:38.640 We're talking about the value of a license agreement where a company would have the ability to run sponsorships on their end.

01:39:44.780 So, if we're talking about, say, Tim Cast's IRL in the morning show, which we do around a million in revenue per month, then a comparable show, you're going to say this when you're licensing a show.

01:39:56.340 If we run the show by ourselves for a year or two, then here's how much we're going to generate in sponsorships, memberships, et cetera, by the end of year two, three, four, and five.

01:40:05.740 If we do a license deal, we jump the gun.

01:40:08.680 We generate lesser revenue than we would in the long term, but it closes the gap sooner.

01:40:13.740 No, I get it.

01:40:14.400 I get it.

01:40:14.980 I understand why you would take it.

01:40:16.940 I would take that money if somebody came to me and offered that, but I would be like, wait, what's going on here?

01:40:22.960 But you would be, I mean, we have three different companies coming at us.

01:40:27.460 They're all known American enterprises.

01:40:30.060 I mean, I will say one thing, too.

01:40:31.640 Like, Lauren Chen's been, was working at the Blaze.

01:40:35.160 You know what I mean?

01:40:35.620 I mean, this is not like some strange person appeared out of nowhere.

01:40:38.960 It raises questions to me about where the Blaze got.

01:40:41.700 I mean, I think, you know, it's quite clear to me that, I mean, you know, there was reports about like the, in the run up to the election, George Santos was on a Zoom call where people were getting paid at least $20,000 to put out stuff that Kamala Harris was a slut on their social media and stuff like that.

01:41:04.640 And I'm like, I've been doing this for 20 years and, you know, it's not a huge amount of competition on the left and I've never, nobody's ever offered me five bucks to do anything like that.

01:41:16.140 Let me, let me, let me let you in on the secret.

01:41:17.800 This has been true for a long time.

01:41:19.560 So your revenue for a majority report, is it largely YouTube based or do you do like ad reads as well?

01:41:24.440 It's ad reads.

01:41:25.380 It's members.

01:41:26.420 It's YouTube.

01:41:27.160 You have YouTube programmatic.

01:41:28.300 So do we.

01:41:29.680 Like programmatic ads means like your YouTube channel will show you how much you made from YouTube's ads.

01:41:33.120 Yes.

01:41:33.600 So Russia can go on your YouTube channel through Google ads and put $10,000 a month into your channel without you knowing.

01:41:42.440 Okay.

01:41:43.060 And you'd have no way to track or control any of that.

01:41:45.620 So this is, this, you know, it's okay.

01:41:48.400 This, I got a, uh, this does happen though, where companies, politicians will use some kind of special interest and you can run an ad for any product you want, which is the crazy thing.

01:41:59.860 Well, yeah, this is what Trump is doing with his, uh, watches, right?

01:42:02.560 Like I'm going to sell, um, 147 watches at whatever it was, 10 grand a pop.

01:42:08.240 And it's basically a way for, uh, people to launder money to him because it's like, oh, I just bought a watch and that's basically it.

01:42:17.140 And so he knows, you're allowed to buy watches.

01:42:20.840 I mean, uh, maybe we should regulate politicians selling products during elections.

01:42:24.700 I think that would be a great idea.

01:42:26.260 Uh, and maybe while they're, uh, president as well, but I know you want to choose.

01:42:31.000 What's that?

01:42:31.600 I bought his shoes.

01:42:32.700 We were skating.

01:42:33.580 Um, let's, let's talk about like abortion or something.

01:42:35.320 I don't know.

01:42:35.740 Or Israel. 0.64

01:42:36.480 Uh, we can talk about Israel if you want.

01:42:39.180 I mean, I, you know, uh, I'm, I, I'm of the mind of, you know, what we're doing is, uh, obscene and, uh, I'm, uh, I'm, uh, I'm unhappy about it.

01:42:50.940 And I feel like we have two options.

01:42:52.860 One is, uh, horrible and the other one's worse in terms of, uh, of, of these governments.

01:42:58.340 I mean, uh, do you, do you think we should cut off funding, pull out and just be done with it?

01:43:02.200 Well, I think that we should, uh, condition aid to Israel.

01:43:06.340 I mean, I think that we should, you know, if we have leverage in, uh, in any type of situation, we should exercise that leverage in terms of, uh, of Ukraine.

01:43:16.580 You know, we, uh, had a treaty with them when they gave up nukes in 93, uh, saying that we would protect them in the event of, uh, Russian aggression or an agreement.

01:43:28.840 Right.

01:43:29.380 And this, the, the, the legal distinction matters, I suppose, because.

01:43:32.140 Well, I mean, it matters in terms of like how, um, perhaps.

01:43:36.100 Bilateral security agreement.

01:43:37.280 I mean, that's, uh, you can, um, uh, refer to it as just a bilateral security agreement.

01:43:44.380 Um, and I think that there's.

01:43:47.520 Oh no, it wasn't even that.

01:43:48.660 The Budapest memorandum.

01:43:50.920 I mean, I think that, you know, this was operational.

01:43:54.000 It's not obviously, uh, you know, a treaty.

01:43:56.320 Treaties can be broken.

01:43:57.460 We saw that.

01:43:58.000 We saw that with, uh, with, uh, you know, uh, Paris Accords and, um, uh, well, it's easier, obviously, if it's a treaty, it needs to be, uh, uh, you know, we need to bring the Senate in.

01:44:09.780 But, um, I, I am, uh, you know, I think that that, uh, aid that we provide for Ukraine should have an exit strategy to it. 0.83

01:44:21.940 I haven't seen one, but I also am not convinced that that's been a function of the election.

01:44:27.060 Haven't we spent more on Ukraine in the past two years than we have on Israel in 50?

01:44:31.080 I don't know.

01:44:31.700 Or comparable.

01:44:32.220 Probably comparable, I think, at this point.

01:44:33.780 That's crazy to me.

01:44:34.440 I, I, I, it's fair to point out, too, like, we're not just giving all the money overseas.

01:44:38.320 We make weapons here, and then it has American weapons jobs. 0.74

01:44:41.520 Yes, 100%.

01:44:42.480 There's no doubt in my mind that we have, uh, we spend far too much money.

01:44:47.360 So much of our economy is dependent.

01:44:49.300 You know, uh, Eisenhower said, uh, you know, uh, beware the military industrial complex.

01:44:54.680 And his original wording was the congressional military industrial complex.

01:44:58.540 And, and, and, you know, I, I subscribe to that.

01:45:02.220 I do think from a, um, a moral standpoint, although I don't think this is controlling,

01:45:11.260 but as a moral standpoint, you know, obviously like one country is being invaded and in some

01:45:16.700 extent occupied and the other is occupying and, um, and completely asymmetrical, uh, type

01:45:26.180 of situation, uh, you know, that we have in Israel is just absurd.

01:45:29.580 Uh, I, I, I, you know, um, I kind of feel like no matter what course we take, the dominoes

01:45:36.480 have been knocked over.

01:45:37.400 The BRICS nations are lining up for their currency.

01:45:39.660 The petrodollar is on the verge of being dismantled.

01:45:42.920 Saudi Arabia has already said not interested.

01:45:45.020 I don't think Trump recovers that.

01:45:46.740 And I think that means Americans better buckle up for a bumpy ride.

01:45:51.360 I mean, to be fair, you've also said that we're headed towards a civil war in this country.

01:45:54.880 So many, many times, and I don't think that's happening.

01:45:58.320 Well, that's not my opinion.

01:45:59.940 That's just the corporate press.

01:46:01.740 I think it was, uh, uh, uh, it's not your opinion that we're headed into a civil war or

01:46:07.440 hasn't been, it is not an original idea from Tim Pool that we're on track for a civil war.

01:46:11.260 Well, I mean, do either one of us have any original ideas?

01:46:14.040 I mean, I didn't come up with single payer.

01:46:15.560 No, but I just clarify, my position is I didn't one day just decide for no reason.

01:46:22.840 Oh man, I think a civil war is coming.

01:46:24.400 It was, uh, like, here we go.

01:46:25.980 Common dreams is a progressive organization.

01:46:28.020 Here you go.

01:46:29.680 The second civil war has already begun.

01:46:32.600 This is a progressive outlet, right?

01:46:34.580 So when I read progressives, conservatives, the Atlantic, all that's more metaphorical,

01:46:39.220 but, uh, if you want to claim that you are, you did not mean that there was an actual

01:46:43.720 civil war.

01:46:43.880 No, no, no, I do.

01:46:44.780 Yeah, absolutely.

01:46:45.740 You do think there is going to be a civil war?

01:46:47.920 10 years, 20 years.

01:46:49.140 I mean, what?

01:46:52.060 Yes.

01:46:53.120 Okay.

01:46:53.860 Do you, like, so we can talk about it.

01:46:55.600 We can go in great detail.

01:46:56.780 Uh, for instance, we had a former CIA officer at the, uh, uh, right for the Washington Post.

01:47:01.080 The U.S. is on the verge of a civil war.

01:47:02.740 I didn't just make it up.

01:47:03.940 The Atlantic said that they, uh, spoke with several national security experts.

01:47:07.440 Well, there's people also saying that the earth is flat, but, uh, you know, do they work

01:47:11.360 for the democratic establishment?

01:47:13.720 Well, sometimes maybe, I don't know.

01:47:15.660 There's flat earthers in the democratic party at the top level.

01:47:17.680 Come on.

01:47:18.380 I'm saying like, like former CIA comes out and says they're concerned.

01:47:21.140 Like we are following the trend of other countries towards civil war.

01:47:23.560 I take that seriously.

01:47:24.700 I don't, I don't know why I would dismiss like all of these people.

01:47:28.140 A Princeton professor, for instance, did the same thing back in 2018, I think.

01:47:32.220 So when, when, when you, maybe it's sensational.

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01:49:02.580 I think to a certain extent, it's like, you know, yes, there were people who said like

01:49:07.920 crime has increased exponentially, but in fact, it hadn't.

01:49:12.200 I mean, you know, I think, you know, part of what you and I do is we make assessments

01:49:18.240 as to what news is actually sort of like real and what really has real world implications

01:49:25.760 for people.

01:49:26.580 And part of what we do is assess that like these things don't and it's a distraction.

01:49:31.240 I think you're I think you're wrong.

01:49:33.420 I think there's an optimism and a normalcy bias.

01:49:35.720 And the only thing I can really say is, look, I read the news and I opine on it and I'm wrong

01:49:40.480 about a lot.

01:49:41.180 But I can probably pull up, I don't know, a couple hundred articles from CNN, The New

01:49:46.180 York Times, The Washington Post talking about the brink of civil war that is coming to this

01:49:50.700 country that I just did not make up one day.

01:49:53.260 So if I if I read The New York Times, these are all right wingers, The New York Times, Ross

01:49:58.140 Dothout, it's an opinion piece.

01:49:59.960 Yeah, of course.

01:50:00.980 CNN, you've got Bruce Hoffman, Jacob Ware, straight arrow news.

01:50:05.300 I don't know.

01:50:05.620 But there's a poll saying people think we're on the verge of a civil war.

01:50:10.060 The Princeton professor, progressive guy, said the Cold Civil War has already begun.

01:50:13.920 This is back in 2018.

01:50:15.560 And I look at all these things and I say the the worldview of the of of of each faction

01:50:21.720 in the United States is divided to a degree that there seems to be no reconciliation.

01:50:27.160 And so now what you have is sitting members of Congress calling for a national divorce, which

01:50:31.840 means nothing.

01:50:32.420 It means civil war.

01:50:33.220 But that was Marjorie Taylor Greene. 1.00

01:50:34.600 I mean, I certainly she's a lunatic. 1.00

01:50:36.760 We'll call it whatever you want. 0.97

01:50:37.880 But when a member of a member of Congress is saying something like this, would you?

01:50:42.120 Oh, I have no doubt.

01:50:43.080 Listen, I do. 0.97

01:50:44.240 You don't have lunatics get elected. 0.97

01:50:45.660 We could see a civil war.

01:50:47.140 I have no doubt that, you know, we have a crop of of of of right wing Republican lawmakers 0.99

01:50:55.480 who are completely nuts. 0.81

01:50:57.380 Do I think that the American six? 0.95

01:50:59.900 What about January six?

01:51:01.160 Do you think a January six type event could result in this country reaching civil war?

01:51:07.320 You mean, had they been successful and let's let's just to kind of depoliticize it, let's

01:51:15.140 say January six, twenty twenty five.

01:51:17.900 Politician X wins.

01:51:19.040 It could be whoever.

01:51:19.940 I don't know.

01:51:20.540 Let's say let's let's let's for the sake for sake of your for your politics.

01:51:23.480 Let's say Trump loses and then Trump supporters storm the Capitol once again, this time taking

01:51:29.300 a lot.

01:51:29.480 Do you really think?

01:51:30.160 Wait, wait a second.

01:51:30.520 This is really an important distinction.

01:51:32.340 Do you really think that the likelihood of a of a mass of Democrats, Democratic voters

01:51:42.900 would go in and and attack the Capitol in the way that we like they did on May 29th,

01:51:52.220 2020, you're talking about like BLM when they firebombed the White House and forced the 0.97

01:51:57.200 president to an emergency bunker and set fire to St. John's Church, injuring hundreds of

01:52:00.940 police officers.

01:52:02.340 Oh, you're talking about the protests out there that you mean after there was a peaceful

01:52:05.640 protest before the cops moved in, regardless of why it happened.

01:52:09.100 Well, like, do I think the far left will firebomb the White House?

01:52:11.540 They did four years ago.

01:52:12.880 Wait a second.

01:52:14.800 One was a an assault on the Capitol.

01:52:18.780 I don't know.

01:52:19.140 There is people.

01:52:21.440 Well, words have meaning.

01:52:23.940 They describe events when leftists injure 100 cops, tear down barricades, throw firebombs.

01:52:28.940 Wait, wait, wait, wait.

01:52:29.860 But you're sequencing things differently.

01:52:31.700 If if Donald Trump was to send the military to attack, let's say, New York City, do I think

01:52:40.940 that we would have a civil war?

01:52:42.440 Yes.

01:52:43.620 Do I think that New York City would think he could do things a possibility Trump would

01:52:47.700 send the military into any one of these Democrat districts?

01:52:50.600 I mean, I don't know.

01:52:52.080 Well, I mean, he claims he would.

01:52:54.180 Do you think or do you fear he would?

01:52:56.060 I fear that he would attempt to do it.

01:52:58.480 But I suspect you would try to start a civil war.

01:53:00.520 Well, I didn't say he would try and start a civil war, but that would start a civil war.

01:53:04.420 Well, or could I think it could, but I don't think there's a possibility.

01:53:08.440 Civil wars and is facing the sound.

01:53:10.100 No, no, no.

01:53:10.700 I don't think the military would allow for that, frankly, National Guard or it's like

01:53:15.900 you think they would disobey Donald Trump.

01:53:18.060 I think I think you'd get a series of resignations possible, I guess, that at one point, but someone

01:53:24.000 eventually if you're if your argument is that the rise of Donald Trump could bring about

01:53:30.420 a civil war.

01:53:31.640 I mean, I don't I don't I don't know that I would say the rise of Donald Trump.

01:53:34.700 I think Trump's a symptom.

01:53:36.220 I think that the reason Trump gets elected is because you have this this rage bubbling

01:53:40.280 up in this country in a variety of ways.

01:53:42.520 So you had the Tea Party and you'd occupy Wall Street, which were rather light.

01:53:45.700 But then you get the Bernie Sanders movement.

01:53:47.420 You get the Trump populist movement.

01:53:48.800 But Trump is a bull and he storms through and he takes the power.

01:53:52.140 Well, how he didn't.

01:53:53.600 But I mean, what's the you're saying this because they're both populist movements.

01:53:58.840 I mean, one's a right wing authoritarian movement.

01:54:01.420 Oh, whatever you want.

01:54:02.180 People people rose up and had had movements for whatever reason.

01:54:05.300 And perhaps you could say because Trump is a strong man, he ended up succeeding in his

01:54:09.560 movement where Bernie's did not.

01:54:10.960 Well, I mean, no.

01:54:12.440 Bernie Sanders was like Hillary Clinton's the authoritarian.

01:54:15.240 And she stomped out Bernie. 1.00

01:54:16.440 No, Hillary Clinton is not an authoritarian.

01:54:19.360 I mean, I don't like her politics.

01:54:21.720 But authoritarian is it's a word.

01:54:24.820 It means something.

01:54:25.920 And right wing authoritarians.

01:54:28.040 I mean, there's been, you know, check out Bob Altemeyer's research formerly from the

01:54:35.140 University of Manitoba.

01:54:36.480 Like there's there's clinical research that shows that we have like something like 25 percent

01:54:41.780 of North America are right wing authoritarian.

01:54:45.240 And they're looking for a leader in the Republican Party has been stoking racial animus for, you

01:54:53.520 know, decades now.

01:54:54.880 And this is where that lead a civil war. 0.98

01:54:57.240 I mean, it certainly did, you know, 200 years ago.

01:55:02.080 But I think that the likelihood of of civil war is low relative to the amount of times that

01:55:08.220 you talk about it.

01:55:09.680 Well, I think it would require you to see what I talked about.

01:55:15.120 Like, should I not opine on the Atlantic saying, quote, there's people that are absolutely ready

01:55:19.200 to take on a civil war?

01:55:20.680 What will happen if Trump loses from one week ago?

01:55:23.520 Is it?

01:55:24.080 I mean, if I address that and I say something like, I think it's silly to assume that within

01:55:28.020 the next few months people are going to start a civil war.

01:55:30.320 Is that a bad thing to do or should we just ignore it?

01:55:33.800 I mean, I think it's just indicative of like the, you know, what what you what you consider

01:55:41.660 the news is.

01:55:42.880 And I think that's, you know, why are they all writing about it?

01:55:46.520 Well, because they have the same problem that you did with your news outlet is they can't

01:55:50.620 get clicks.

01:55:52.580 Do you think the only reason all of these outlets?

01:55:54.780 I think I've got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine that I just pulled

01:55:59.320 up from a quick Google search.

01:56:00.480 It's just they're getting clicks for it.

01:56:03.040 I'm not.

01:56:03.520 It's not a gotcha.

01:56:04.000 I mean, literally, it's like it's just sensational.

01:56:05.920 Yeah.

01:56:06.200 I mean, I think like, you know, the when when you when you think about the the original civil 0.99

01:56:10.600 war, there was a huge economic investment in in on the on the two different sides.

01:56:16.260 Right.

01:56:16.440 One side wanted free labor and the other side, aside from having other economic interests

01:56:25.580 to that, that wasn't wasn't aligned with having free labor.

01:56:29.140 I don't think we have that same division here.

01:56:31.620 Does that we need to follow 1861 or 54 for a civil war to happen?

01:56:36.480 Or is it possible to look at, say, the Bolsheviks, the Spanish Civil War, the French Revolution,

01:56:40.580 this British Civil War?

01:56:41.960 I think it is unlikely in this country that we would have a civil war.

01:56:45.840 Do I think that we are going to we could have, you know, sort of like a constitutional

01:56:50.360 crisis with someone like Donald Trump and the Republican Party?

01:56:53.920 Yes, I do.

01:56:55.220 So academics right now believe that we are in what's called civil strife.

01:57:00.360 Civil strife does not guarantee civil war, but it is the precursor to.

01:57:03.880 So the civil rights era was a period of civil strife that did not result in a civil war.

01:57:08.160 Bleeding Kansas was civil strife that did mean in the 80s.

01:57:10.820 We had something like.

01:57:12.420 A hundred bombings, maybe, maybe 75 bombings that would, I mean, you know, various.

01:57:21.860 Civil strife.

01:57:22.460 It comes and goes, you know what I mean?

01:57:23.980 So you've got Stephen Marsh, who wrote the book The Next Civil War.

01:57:29.140 He's a liberal guy.

01:57:30.960 He makes a lot of these predictions.

01:57:32.800 I defer to him.

01:57:33.680 I think he's wrong on a lot of his fact assessments in the granular scope of things.

01:57:37.720 But he makes a lot of points that are correct.

01:57:40.020 So we actually had this debate, I think it was, was it last week, actually, on civil war,

01:57:45.560 conflict and crisis.

01:57:46.740 And one of the things I have to bring up is people try and look at the 1861 civil war as

01:57:55.480 if we must follow that trend for civil war to occur.

01:57:58.320 When, in fact, it's rare that you actually get civil war in that regard.

01:58:04.660 What would you do to stop this civil war?

01:58:08.240 Tell people not to do it.

01:58:09.820 To go out and vote.

01:58:10.820 To believe in the system.

01:58:12.320 To vote for who you think is going to help bring accountability to this country.

01:58:16.760 Denounce and reject violence.

01:58:17.320 Do you think there's no difference in terms of the parties as to which one could bring about

01:58:21.140 that has, that could bring about a civil war?

01:58:24.920 I think both parties hold the potential for it.

01:58:27.280 Do you think that, like, Kamala Harris would, you know... 0.92

01:58:31.660 Takes two to tango.

01:58:33.380 Well, actually, it takes two to tango because a tango is a very intricate dance.

01:58:37.420 But it doesn't take two people to start a war.

01:58:40.200 I mean...

01:58:40.480 It does?

01:58:41.020 No, it doesn't.

01:58:42.620 I mean...

01:58:43.620 What do you mean?

01:58:44.080 Well, it doesn't take two people to start a war.

01:58:46.740 So if country A invades country B, but country B just surrenders immediately, there's no war.

01:58:51.840 Well, obviously, people are pushing...

01:58:55.840 War is a fight.

01:58:56.760 Yeah.

01:58:57.080 It could be more than two, like Syria, for instance.

01:59:00.100 I think there was, like, 12 factions in the initial...

01:59:02.580 Well, tango, both parties are, like, engaged in the dance.

01:59:08.700 But the fact of the matter is that you can go in and, yes, you can invade its war, even if they surrender after, you know, people getting shot.

01:59:16.540 But do you think that, like, Kamala Harris... 0.99

01:59:20.300 Let me put it this way.

01:59:21.400 Who's more likely to bring out the military against the city between Harris and Trump?

01:59:28.620 Trump didn't do it in 2020.

01:59:30.160 I don't know if I have a good answer.

01:59:32.060 You don't have an opinion on this?

01:59:33.840 I don't know if I have a good enough answer to say...

01:59:36.000 Well, I'll take whatever answer you...

01:59:37.540 I mean, you don't have an opinion.

01:59:39.000 Trump was presented with national riots.

01:59:41.140 He did not invoke the Insurrection Act.

01:59:42.620 He didn't send out the military.

01:59:43.480 I'm not confident he has the strength, and I don't mean that in a positive way.

01:59:47.560 Who would be more inclined to do it?

01:59:51.960 I can't answer that.

01:59:53.160 I don't know.

01:59:54.100 You don't have an opinion on it.

01:59:55.280 I mean, I think it's bait to be, like, Trump's the authoritarian, therefore he would, when he didn't do it.

02:00:00.500 So the Democrats didn't do it at the Capitol.

02:00:05.280 Trump didn't do it at the Capitol.

02:00:06.320 Trump didn't do it in 2020.

02:00:08.540 The National Guard was deployed by Democrats during the Ferguson riots.

02:00:11.420 Could I make the argument that Democrats are more likely for that reason?

02:00:14.480 I honestly have no idea.

02:00:15.240 Would you make that argument?

02:00:16.360 I wouldn't.

02:00:16.840 I'd say there's pros and cons to make a guess as to who you think would be more likely to bring out the National Guard or invoke the Insurrection Act.

02:00:23.740 Honestly, I don't know.

02:00:25.980 What I will say is it doesn't matter what you think is true.

02:00:29.620 Mark Milley, apparently...

02:00:31.480 Mark Milley is someone that you would trust. 0.98

02:00:34.480 But he basically said that Trump told him to just shoot the rioters.

02:00:41.380 I mean, Hillary Clinton said, we came, we saw he died. 0.84

02:00:43.580 Why don't you drone strike Julian Assange?

02:00:46.220 So Barack Obama killed Abdulrahman Al-Awlaki.

02:00:48.680 Wait, wait, wait.

02:00:49.120 No, no, no.

02:00:49.620 I agree that Obama, you know, those drone strikes were very problematic.

02:00:56.400 But that's different than saying we're going to willy-nilly fire into protesters.

02:01:02.060 What I'm pointing out is that I'm not going to tell you your opinions are wrong and you should not have them.

02:01:07.420 That's not the point of what I'm getting at with civil war.

02:01:10.160 My point is you believe them and you are allowed to believe them.

02:01:13.060 And that's fine by me.

02:01:13.940 I'm just curious as to who you think.

02:01:16.120 I mean, if you think that there's going to be a civil war or that there's a big potential for it,

02:01:22.260 you don't see there's no difference between Trump and Harris as to the likelihood of a civil war or who would start this war.

02:01:31.720 You don't...

02:01:32.320 In 2020, Democrats held a war game, as reported by the Boston Globe.

02:01:36.600 Are you familiar with this?

02:01:38.000 Where Podesta and others, neocons, had come together...

02:01:42.480 In 2020.

02:01:43.160 Before the 2020 election, they held a war game, as reported by the New York Times and the Boston Globe,

02:01:47.880 where they said in the event Trump wins, we should advocate for West Coast states to secede from the union.

02:01:55.660 In 2020?

02:01:56.860 Yes.

02:01:58.260 In 2020, before the election took place, a war game was held by prominent neoconservatives and Democrats, including John Podesta.

02:02:05.560 Oh, so you mean like a bunch of people who are out of government went into a room and...

02:02:10.160 Working on the campaign and said, what happens if Trump wins?

02:02:14.140 And one of the proposals was Washington, Oregon, and California must secede from the union unless Trump's government capitulates to our demands.

02:02:22.580 And that was just the most insane thing I'd ever heard.

02:02:25.120 They're not just going through a bunch of different people out of government are just going around.

02:02:28.880 So you're arguing...

02:02:30.540 You say out of government, but campaigning for the office of the presidency is a big difference, right?

02:02:34.720 Podesta is a big shot in the Democratic Party.

02:02:37.020 It's not like he's not in power.

02:02:38.440 These are private organizations, Republican or Democrat.

02:02:40.820 The issue I'm saying is this.

02:02:42.580 By all means, tell me I'm wrong.

02:02:44.580 Believe all of it.

02:02:45.680 But under...

02:02:46.060 I just think it's fascinating you don't have an opinion on this.

02:02:48.860 Well, because I hear you and I...

02:02:50.480 I mean, you have this knowledge that some Democrats who are out of power...

02:02:56.200 You keep saying that, but John Podesta is far from out of power.

02:02:59.480 Well, I mean, in 2020, he wasn't in the government.

02:03:02.780 He's a big shot in the Democratic Party and he basically has a lot of say in who gets to run and who doesn't and where funding comes from.

02:03:07.700 Okay, he had power within the Democratic Party, but people who...

02:03:10.820 And he's saying, if Trump wins, we will get...

02:03:13.060 We will...

02:03:13.780 Wait, did Panetta say this or this just...

02:03:16.900 There's like 14 different scenarios that are being gamed out and because they're doing the war game, this is one of them that happens in this sort of completely hypothetical thing.

02:03:27.100 Why...

02:03:27.580 But why do you think they entertained the possibility of West Coast secession? 1.00

02:03:31.500 Like, that's just stupid, isn't it? 1.00

02:03:33.660 Well, I mean... 1.00

02:03:34.540 It's a stupid thing for them to do. 1.00

02:03:35.420 I... 1.00

02:03:36.420 Listen, Donald Trump had states competing over PPE during COVID.

02:03:42.340 He completely abandoned this country at a time where there was a once-in-a-lifetime crisis and...

02:03:48.840 What if Trump steals the election?

02:03:49.960 To the extent that...

02:03:51.420 If Trump steals the election?

02:03:53.780 What do you think would happen?

02:03:54.880 What do you mean by steal?

02:03:56.180 Let's say that Kamala Harris wins the popular... 0.93

02:03:58.320 Here's a scenario that's playing out right now.

02:03:59.780 Mississippi had a lawsuit.

02:04:01.280 Fifth Circuit Court ruled that ballots received after Election Day,

02:04:04.460 even if postmarked before, are illegal to count.

02:04:07.280 This would have to go to the Supreme Court for final adjudication.

02:04:10.560 But one scenario that has potential because of this is that Donald Trump is winning on Election Day.

02:04:16.260 However, mail-in votes have yet to be counted, of course.

02:04:19.060 This is what happened in 2020.

02:04:20.480 Then, when those votes come in, Republicans sue, going to the Supreme Court, which you believe is right-leaning,

02:04:25.620 and the Supreme Court...

02:04:26.520 Wait, wait.

02:04:26.800 I believe it's right-leaning?

02:04:28.920 Do you not believe it's right-leaning?

02:04:30.680 I'm not making a point about my or your belief.

02:04:32.320 I'm saying...

02:04:32.900 You said you believe it's right-leaning.

02:04:34.520 Really?

02:04:34.760 It's right-leaning.

02:04:35.640 And I will say, as you have stated, the court is right-leaning, okay?

02:04:37.960 Thank you.

02:04:38.240 So my point is this.

02:04:39.060 If Kamala Harris is losing on Election Day, but it is perceived that she will win when mail-in belts come in the following day,

02:04:48.640 but the Republicans sue, citing the Fifth Circuit Court, it goes to the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court rules,

02:04:54.400 all of those votes for Kamala, which would give her the win, are out.

02:04:57.440 Trump is now the president, despite losing the popular vote and the Electoral College.

02:05:00.820 What do you think happens?

02:05:01.540 Well, we have a model for this.

02:05:05.860 It was the year 2000, where all of the legal establishment was shocked that the Supreme Court intervened and prevented Florida from counting all the votes.

02:05:17.820 And to the extent that we, you know, past performance is no guarantee of future performance, but the Democrats basically stood down.

02:05:28.860 Do you think Democrats would just stand down and let Trump come in?

02:05:32.040 I think they were—I would be surprised if there weren't, like, massive protests, and I think we would see states attempt to get more progressive and become more sustainable and not rely on the federal government as much.

02:05:51.200 Yeah.

02:05:51.340 What if Trump sends in the military to start rounding up illegal immigrants?

02:05:55.160 Oh, I think that's going to be really, really ugly, in addition to being like a—

02:05:58.680 Do you think if troops are putting people on buses and trains, the Democrats will just stand by and say this is fine?

02:06:03.620 I mean, if the Supreme Court basically says it's okay to deploy the military in the United States, I think that could be a problem.

02:06:15.200 Now, you've just given me that scenario.

02:06:17.960 Would you imagine Kamala Harris doing the same thing?

02:06:20.560 Do you think that she would send the military to deport 11 million people?

02:06:24.000 No.

02:06:24.580 She said she wants to, recently.

02:06:26.500 She said people who enter illegally will be quickly and immediately removed.

02:06:31.600 I think—

02:06:32.140 Well, of that 11 million people, 80 percent of them have been here for over 10 years.

02:06:37.040 So how is it where you can so easily work up a scenario—

02:06:42.580 Where Donald Trump—

02:06:43.800 Where Donald Trump instigates a civil war, but you can't with Kamala Harris that you think they're the same.

02:06:49.840 Why do you say I couldn't?

02:06:51.300 All right.

02:06:51.560 Well, give me one.

02:06:52.760 So, first of all, I don't really put a lot of weight on Kamala Harris.

02:06:55.880 Right?

02:06:56.020 She wasn't elected.

02:06:57.680 The Democrats voted for her, so she was like—

02:06:59.080 Well, I mean, it's either going to be her or Donald Trump as the president.

02:07:02.180 So, with Trump in office, Trump is screaming at the top of his lungs, telling people what to do.

02:07:06.920 With Kamala in office, she's surrounded by intelligence officials, military officers.

02:07:11.000 And what we've seen thus far is the arrest of lawyers.

02:07:17.060 The arrest of—

02:07:18.880 The arrest of lawyers?

02:07:20.100 Donald Trump's lawyers were arrested.

02:07:22.260 For?

02:07:22.720 Uh, uh, what's her face?

02:07:25.680 Um, Jenna Ellis.

02:07:27.360 Was that her name?

02:07:28.140 She got charged with RICO for simply being Trump's lawyer.

02:07:32.220 Really?

02:07:33.020 That's a—

02:07:33.860 Did it hold up in court?

02:07:35.500 Uh, she ended up—I think she pled guilty, pleaded guilty.

02:07:38.440 She ended up crying on TV, apologizing for having done it.

02:07:41.160 They included her in RICO because she filed a paperwork on Trump's behalf for his election claims. 0.98

02:07:47.360 Oh, because she knew they were false.

02:07:49.380 No, I don't think that was what she was charged with.

02:07:51.000 So she was charged with RICO counts one and two, which was participating in—

02:07:54.420 A conspiracy to defraud the United States.

02:07:58.100 And so the issue then becomes, if you're a lawyer and you are—and you are retained by someone who says,

02:08:04.640 here's the argument I want to make, and you go, okay, then they criminally charge you for it.

02:08:07.420 That's a huge step over the line.

02:08:08.780 Well, if you're involved in fraud, then yes, that's always been the case.

02:08:12.340 If you're not—

02:08:13.480 Is this the first time that a lawyer has ever been subjected to something like that in a fraud case like that?

02:08:18.500 Not sure, but it's other lawyers that got charged, too, in Wisconsin.

02:08:21.000 So it's—you know what?

02:08:23.620 By all means, Sam, go ahead and tell them that she deserves it.

02:08:27.200 Answer—

02:08:27.500 Say she deserves it.

02:08:28.100 Answer, she deserves it. 0.99

02:08:29.720 Okay, now, what do you think Trump supporters will respond with when they see Trump's lawyers,

02:08:34.140 former staffers, Navarro, Bannon being put in prison?

02:08:36.900 Certainly, you know, supporters don't like, you know, people being—going to jail, but I mean—

02:08:44.860 Why didn't Merrick Garland go to jail for contempt of Congress?

02:08:47.580 Why didn't he go to jail for contempt of Congress?

02:08:50.240 Yeah.

02:08:50.760 What, you mean, from the Justice Department?

02:08:52.880 Yeah, the—was it the—her investigation, or was it?

02:08:56.100 I'm getting the name wrong.

02:08:57.500 He was held in contempt of Congress, I think, twice.

02:08:59.760 There's been a lot of people who have been held in contempt of Congress who haven't gone to prison.

02:09:03.180 So the issue right now is Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon go, and when Merrick Garland defies Congress, he does not.

02:09:09.720 I think government officials probably get away with this more, because we had congressional—we had members of Congress who also—

02:09:16.360 That is a fine argument.

02:09:17.440 But wait, wait, wait.

02:09:17.980 That is a fine argument, but do you think—

02:09:18.980 We're getting off the original question was—

02:09:21.020 The question is, do you think Trump supporters are going to accept this as true, that it's just government officials getting—

02:09:26.740 I don't know.

02:09:27.720 I've seen Trump supporters believe a lot of very strange things, like John F. Kennedy is in the—you know, Jr. is in the audience.

02:09:37.580 That is, yeah.

02:09:38.040 He had the magazine.

02:09:38.700 Yeah.

02:09:39.620 So I have no idea how to predict.

02:09:42.080 But again, the question I ask, do you think—can you come up with a scenario where Harris instigates a civil war in the way that you talked about with Trump doing it?

02:09:52.360 The Harris administration, yes.

02:09:53.840 Okay.

02:09:54.300 And what—like, let me hear it.

02:09:55.980 The expansive arrest and prosecution of Donald Trump, his supporters, and those associated with his movement.

02:10:00.980 Well, the—Bannon went to jail, and Navarro went to jail, and there was no civil war.

02:10:07.540 Why would that right now, as an election is looming?

02:10:10.760 So another example would be, let's say Donald Trump actually is losing on Election Day, and votes are going to come in, and they sue and get his votes disqualified.

02:10:19.440 Or how about this?

02:10:20.640 And you keep saying—

02:10:21.240 The Democrats don't do that.

02:10:22.560 But I don't—Democrats don't challenge elections?

02:10:24.560 No, they challenge elections.

02:10:26.120 But, I mean, Democrats don't disenfranchise.

02:10:29.420 Republicans have a, you know, an extensive history of that.

02:10:32.560 So the factor right now is what we are seeing with the current political establishment.

02:10:38.780 I don't think it's Joe Biden.

02:10:39.900 I think the way the Democrats have operated is in administration, Trump is unique in that Trump is Trump.

02:10:44.960 Trump's in charge.

02:10:45.620 Trump tells people—

02:10:46.260 Oh, my God.

02:10:47.240 Seriously?

02:10:47.860 You don't think Trump is screaming at people and telling them what to do?

02:10:49.900 I got news for you.

02:10:50.920 You think Trump has got military advisors that he trusts and listens to?

02:10:53.640 Oh, no, no.

02:10:54.460 There's no doubt.

02:10:55.540 No, no, no.

02:10:55.980 We're not in agreement.

02:10:57.200 Donald Trump is going to outsource so much of, like, you know, all his picks were picked by the Heritage Foundation for the Supreme Court.

02:11:06.160 There is a huge—between Russell Vogt, who was not only one of the architects of Project 2025, but he was also the chair of the Republican Platform Committee, they have outlined their entire program to dismantle the administrative state.

02:11:27.280 Donald Trump is not going to get involved in the micro parts.

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02:13:25.300 So there's two potentialities, and we'll keep them simple.

02:13:29.080 Do you think that Trump supporters, his fans, his administration, the people you've just mentioned, will just let the Democrats take over and put him in jail and do the things they want to do?

02:13:41.620 Well, I don't think Democrats are just going to put him in jail.

02:13:44.600 I'm not saying that.

02:13:45.300 I mean, I think.

02:13:45.880 Will he let them for whatever reason?

02:13:47.540 Let's say he's like legitimately convicted of a crime.

02:13:49.180 Do you think he's going to let him do it?

02:13:50.580 What do you mean?

02:13:51.540 Let who do what?

02:13:52.700 Do you think in the event Democrats win, Trump supporters will just say, OK, we lost?

02:14:00.600 I mean, do I expect them to?

02:14:03.960 I don't know.

02:14:04.280 January 6, 2.0.

02:14:05.660 Well, I think this time around, people are going to be a lot more attuned to the potential of that happening.

02:14:10.460 So I think they're going to inhibit it.

02:14:12.180 Would that also include the people who would perpetrate it?

02:14:16.360 I'm not.

02:14:16.940 I'm unclear what you're saying.

02:14:17.840 If you're saying that people are attuned to expect a January 6th, would that not also include those who seek to perpetrate a January 6th, meaning they will be prepared for countermeasures?

02:14:27.940 I mean, I guess that's conceivable, but I don't think that's a civil war at that point.

02:14:32.600 I think actually the way that I think I think.

02:14:35.300 Oh, yeah.

02:14:35.680 I think there's going to be civil strife.

02:14:37.220 I don't think it's going to be.

02:14:38.300 I don't think there's going to be some mass movement.

02:14:39.960 I think that once Trump in the event that he loses, I think over time, there's just going to be less interest in the guy.

02:14:50.500 So you you would say I don't think he's going to run again in four years.

02:14:53.640 He can barely stand.

02:14:55.100 Do you believe that there is a single digit probability of a second January 6th type event?

02:15:00.800 Trump loses and then his supporters come out in mass.

02:15:03.320 I think that I mean, it's conceivable that there is an event, but he doesn't have control of the government in this instance where he did before.

02:15:15.020 And so people just showed up like they weren't government actors.

02:15:19.480 The 200000 who showed up in D.C. that day.

02:15:22.040 Well, I mean, he planned a rally on the ellipse.

02:15:26.380 I mean, you can tweet that out again and it could happen again.

02:15:28.440 He could he could tweet that out, but there's not going to be a rally.

02:15:30.940 He's not going to be able to have a rally there.

02:15:33.220 He's not going to get a permit.

02:15:34.620 You think Trump supporters would not show up if he asked him to show up because he doesn't have a permit?

02:15:38.840 I think there would be a lot less.

02:15:40.660 Yes, without a doubt.

02:15:42.200 So I mean, did you I mean, people thought there was going to be riots down at his courtroom appearances in New York City.

02:15:47.680 And there was flags and stuff.

02:15:49.220 There was not many people at all.

02:15:50.920 So when I really do think that he is more of a paper tiger now.

02:15:54.380 Now, are there fringe groups like militias that get inspired by him and then the Republicans?

02:15:59.760 Yes, we've always had those.

02:16:01.300 What percentage of people fought in the American Revolution?

02:16:04.140 How many actual percentage of American the American population that actually fought?

02:16:08.720 I mean, we had 500,000 deaths, I would say, in the 1860s.

02:16:15.180 I don't know.

02:16:18.980 Maybe 10 percent.

02:16:21.700 I think 10 is the academic number.

02:16:23.900 There's a lot of people.

02:16:24.840 Have you heard of the three percenters? 0.99

02:16:27.000 It's some right wing militia group, right?

02:16:30.560 And they that name comes from three percent of the American population fought in the American Revolution.

02:16:36.120 Academics lean more towards like 10 percent or so.

02:16:38.920 But the important factor there is it does not take very many people at all to instigate civil war.

02:16:46.740 It takes actually only a couple.

02:16:49.080 And that creates a scenario where dominoes.

02:16:51.020 Do you think that's more likely to happen with people on the right or on the left in this country?

02:16:57.360 In different ways equally.

02:16:59.220 But there's a substantial difference.

02:17:01.060 In different ways equally.

02:17:02.240 Yes.

02:17:04.120 So you think it's the same probability that it would come from the left as it would the right?

02:17:09.440 I don't know.

02:17:09.860 I could calculate probabilities.

02:17:11.320 I can say that the left has already created several economists.

02:17:13.940 How many left wing militias are there?

02:17:15.300 Hundreds.

02:17:16.280 Hundreds of left wing militias?

02:17:17.580 John Brown Gun Club or the Red Guard.

02:17:19.580 Two prominent ones.

02:17:20.820 Rose City Antifa may not be a militia, but they certainly did participate in taking over several militias.

02:17:25.820 So you've got two militias.

02:17:26.220 How many people are in that?

02:17:27.220 I mean, off the top of my head, I can name, you know, like the three percenters, the Oath Keepers, you know, those Bundy folks. 0.84

02:17:38.400 That's not a militia.

02:17:39.380 There are.

02:17:40.640 How many can you name, too?

02:17:41.840 Well, I mean, there's neo-Nazi groups.

02:17:43.960 Ah, come on.

02:17:44.660 Don't tell me I need to name them all.

02:17:46.220 You're not going to name any.

02:17:46.940 I don't.

02:17:47.540 Well, you can.

02:17:48.220 I'm sure you can.

02:17:49.440 I mean, let's.

02:17:50.000 I actually can't.

02:17:50.740 I can think of.

02:17:52.120 Do you think there's the same amount of right wing militias as there are left wing militias in this country?

02:17:56.380 I said that we've already seen the left take over several city blocks for months on end and kill people and see and was in Portland.

02:18:02.900 How many people killed were killed two or three in Provo, Utah.

02:18:05.780 A guy ran up to a car and just shot a guy for no reason.

02:18:07.640 That was that was reckless insurgency in Minnesota.

02:18:10.760 You had the George Floyd autonomous zone for like two years in Atlanta.

02:18:13.920 You had the Wendy's autonomous zone.

02:18:16.160 You've had numerous attempts.

02:18:17.140 I mean, in Seattle with the Chaz Chop, you had armed guards outside, took over a police station and killed people. 0.99

02:18:25.000 They unloaded hundreds of rounds from rifles into a white SUV with two teenagers in it. 0.78

02:18:29.000 So if we're going to ignore the wave of mass violence, the 36 deaths in 2020 and act like only the right is capable of violence, it's silly.

02:18:37.620 Well, we have data from this.

02:18:39.100 We have data from from the Department of Justice.

02:18:42.400 Sure.

02:18:42.600 And it's a right wing authoritarian.

02:18:44.340 One has the higher probability.

02:18:45.780 But we do know that both are capable and we don't know to what degree is required to start.

02:18:50.340 You and I both know what the bulk of people who own weapons in this country.

02:18:54.660 We can look at the Department of Justice, regardless of who has been ahead of the administration and see that they have been saying for decades that these militias exist on the right and they're far more prominent.

02:19:06.420 They're far more dangerous.

02:19:07.900 But I never made an equivalence.

02:19:09.440 I said no to that question.

02:19:11.040 You're not making an equivalence.

02:19:12.260 You asked me if I thought there was equal probability.

02:19:13.760 I said no.

02:19:15.000 Oh, which which has more probability?

02:19:16.960 Yeah, the right in 100 percent.

02:19:20.200 Oh, so the right.

02:19:21.120 I never I never said that.

02:19:22.520 All right, fine.

02:19:22.960 But we both agree that if there is a threat from civil war, it comes from the right in this country.

02:19:29.380 That's an absolute statement that I didn't make.

02:19:32.420 OK, probabilistically, the right is a larger risk threat for destabilization than the left.

02:19:37.640 Why do you why?

02:19:38.420 Why are you sort of like trying to obfuscate what you're saying?

02:19:42.320 There's more of a chance if there's a civil war that is going to come from the right than the left.

02:19:46.160 Agreed.

02:19:46.780 OK, great.

02:19:47.760 Yeah, but I was never in disagreement on that.

02:19:49.320 Oh, I once in any of my content have I ever said that.

02:19:51.680 The question is, though, what does it mean to instigate a civil war?

02:19:54.780 What does it mean to be the first shot fired?

02:19:57.140 These are these are holding the questions that go back to historical conflicts where we try to determine what started the war.

02:20:03.760 And then you get people making arguments on when it really started, when it didn't.

02:20:06.660 A big question of the war in 1861 is for us.

02:20:09.160 We know it started with Fort Sumter.

02:20:10.460 But at the time, they didn't think civil war started until well after the fact to the degree that the Battle of Bull Run, they were picnicking.

02:20:16.580 Despite we know historically the civil war started, they did not make that determination.

02:20:20.540 So you could argue history is written by the victors in the event that the right and reason why I say there's a greater risk for civil war from the right is they're the ones actively calling for national divorce, which is a mistake.

02:20:30.100 They're the ones who are more likely to well, January 6th, for instance, was bad.

02:20:36.280 The left, while they riot and there is violence from them, it is what I would call blunt widespread low impact on the right.

02:20:43.880 It's typically high impact less not as widespread.

02:20:47.540 January 6th was a riot in one of the worst ways imaginable at a Capitol building during the election.

02:20:52.760 The counting electoral vote, the certification, that's what I would call acute, acute domestic violence.

02:20:57.440 And that was also really going towards the heart of a civil society, which is the peaceful transfer of power.

02:21:06.360 I mean, you know, to the extent that there were riots or protests, the idea was to to change public policy, to show dissatisfaction with the police state or the state of policing.

02:21:27.160 That is not a undermining of the fundamental principles of the way that the of basically undercutting across the board.

02:21:40.960 So the political process, the issue is that I see is that if you're saying something like the threat comes from the right.

02:21:48.700 Well, let's parse that down.

02:21:50.200 There is a higher probability of instability or conflict arising from actions on the right because their actions tend to be acute.

02:21:56.520 January 6th, sharp and extremely potentially dangerous.

02:22:00.380 The left, however, does show a different propensity for violence, which we call blunt obtuse.

02:22:04.100 That is, the widespread riots of 2020 were not targeted at a Capitol building during election, but they were substantially larger, resulting in 30 around 30 or so deaths.

02:22:13.360 I think we attribute around 20 plus to the director rights.

02:22:16.120 And then there were ancillary deaths as a result of the actions of the riots.

02:22:18.620 There were the seizure of autonomous zones like in Seattle.

02:22:21.760 There was an attempt in Portland, Minnesota, Atlanta.

02:22:24.740 And when we're talking about what could ignite a civil war, you don't need only acute, but it is a higher risk.

02:22:33.780 That is, you will more likely hear on the news a guy goes into a church and shoots a bunch of people because of how extreme and psychotic it is, though it happens substantially less than leftists punching someone in the head.

02:22:45.400 Nobody really cares if a fight breaks out in the middle of Portland.

02:22:47.420 We're not going to report on that. 1.00

02:22:48.380 That's stupid. 0.99

02:22:48.940 But if you get to the point where you get a Summer of Love 2020 with a Donald Trump in office and this time around he says, I'm sending in the National Guard, you may end up with conflict, civil strife, insurgency instigated by left violence. 0.99

02:23:02.080 Whereas with the right, you could get January 6, 2.0, where they injure politicians.

02:23:07.640 I'm like sitting here in amazement to the extent that you have contemplated these things that and have created this whole sort of like macro associated with it.

02:23:22.980 That is, I think, incredibly unlikely, A, and B.

02:23:30.700 I never said it was incredibly likely.

02:23:32.500 No, I'm just, I know that.

02:23:35.760 I'm just, I'm amazed.

02:23:37.180 You know, like one of the things that the last video, and we didn't get a chance to talk about Social Security.

02:23:42.860 I think you had brought it up before the show.

02:23:45.300 I was reading Forbes.

02:23:45.900 But the, one of the things that I'm amazed about is how, and I think this is sort of was my point about you bringing it up so much, the, you know, I suppose I can understand why like the Atlantic wants to make an opinion piece on it because it's sort of like clickbaity stuff.

02:24:04.300 But the depth in which you are, you go into these scenarios, which again, I think are incredibly unlikely, and also some attempt to create some type of equivalence, although you do concede that the probability is higher on the, that this is going to come from the right, versus like Social Security.

02:24:26.860 Well, real quick, I'll answer your point before you get to Social Security.

02:24:31.160 I do think it's a bit unfair for you to ask me why I think a thing and then get mad that I brought it up.

02:24:35.940 Well, no, I mean, I, no, I, I, I mean, I, I, I, I didn't.

02:24:40.280 How could the leftist, well, here's one way, ha ha, why did you even think of something like that?

02:24:43.600 Well, you'd never, you haven't, still haven't answered that question.

02:24:45.820 You can ask me about quantum physics and.

02:24:47.640 You're just talking about like blunt violence.

02:24:48.400 Well, if you can't understand it, I can't help you.

02:24:50.640 Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think.

02:24:52.640 We can talk about quantum physics and the organization of nature, entropy and entropy.

02:24:56.700 No.

02:24:56.960 But if you don't ask me about those things, you can't get mad that I talk about the things you ask me to talk about.

02:25:00.220 I understand.

02:25:00.580 I understand.

02:25:01.360 I'm just, I just said, I was amazed that the depth in which you do that relative to how much little time you spend on something like just even learning the basics of something like Social Security,

02:25:12.660 which essentially our government does three things.

02:25:17.460 It is a war machine.

02:25:20.380 It, and then provides Medicare and Social Security.

02:25:23.100 I mean, just on a dollar per dollar basis.

02:25:25.760 Well, I think it's fair to point out as pertaining to Social Security is if I'm going to read the Atlantic and comment on it, criticize me for having unoriginal thoughts.

02:25:32.460 If I'm going to read Forbes and comment on it, criticize me for having unoriginal thoughts.

02:25:35.180 No, I don't think you should have original thoughts.

02:25:37.220 I mean, the part of this job is not.

02:25:39.300 My point is your issue with my take on Social Security is just because I read the Atlantic and Forbes that day.

02:25:44.600 Well, I.

02:25:45.900 And they were wrong, I guess.

02:25:46.980 I don't know.

02:25:47.900 Maybe you misread it.

02:25:49.300 But.

02:25:49.580 I read Forbes saying that insolvency is coming and the system can't sustain itself because on average you need 2.8 to 4 workers to maintain a single recipient.

02:25:56.120 No.

02:25:56.360 And I said, well, hold on.

02:25:57.380 Who did you read?

02:25:58.080 When you say Forbes, who was the writer?

02:26:00.460 I don't know.

02:26:00.860 Did you pull up the video?

02:26:01.660 When did we pull up the Forbes?

02:26:02.440 All right.

02:26:02.540 Want to pull it up?

02:26:03.160 I mean, one of the things that, you know, I think, and when you brought up, like, you know, all the Dave Rubin videos I do, or we do a lot of videos about you.

02:26:14.140 We got 230,000 views on that Social Security video.

02:26:20.340 And I can tell you, I've talked about Social Security so many times, never gotten those type of numbers.

02:26:25.300 But your presentation and lack of awareness about it gave me the opportunity to explain Social Security to 200,000 people that wouldn't do it.

02:26:36.240 But it was stunning.

02:26:38.020 You talk about me a lot.

02:26:39.540 Well, I mean, because of, honestly, in instances like that, like I say, no one's going to listen to a dry diatribe about Social Security.

02:26:48.760 But when you come out with such misinformation based upon, I guess, you read an article or two that day.

02:26:54.400 Indeed it is.

02:26:55.140 And it's literally one of the largest, like one third of our government, at least in terms of dollars, is Social Security.

02:27:03.740 And you read two articles that day in Forbes.

02:27:07.480 You don't know by whom or what their perspective was.

02:27:10.320 Yes.

02:27:10.600 I don't memorize every article I read.

02:27:12.140 I understand. 0.99

02:27:13.920 But you then pontificate and say Social Security is a dumb idea.

02:27:18.140 You don't realize that increase in productivity means that while it may have been, you know, two workers for every one Social Security person back in the day, or I should say vice versa, one worker for every two retirees.

02:27:33.500 Now it can be one worker for every four retirees because of increase in productivity.

02:27:38.240 And Social Security is not going insolvent.

02:27:40.440 There is a trust fund that was established during the Reagan era.

02:27:44.620 And that will last for another 10 years if we don't do anything else.

02:27:51.660 But everything else in this country will go broke.

02:27:55.800 I'm in complete agreement with you as one of the challenges we face.

02:27:58.560 A lot of people like to attribute to me, and I say this as many times as I can, I just read the news and opine on it.

02:28:05.380 That's really the thing.

02:28:06.660 One of the things that I have criticized you for in the past is that you don't go in depth with the serious stuff and actually, like, learn about this stuff.

02:28:18.000 And you opine about it.

02:28:20.020 From reading the news.

02:28:21.280 Well, but you're not reading it very well because—

02:28:24.680 I'm just reading what the paragraph says.

02:28:25.840 Here's CNBC, trust fund reserves used to pay beneficiaries are predicted to become insolvent by 2035.

02:28:31.780 Well, what does that mean?

02:28:33.820 Only that what comes in is able to go out.

02:28:36.940 Okay.

02:28:37.340 And so what's the cuts on that?

02:28:39.740 What do you mean?

02:28:40.460 Well, I mean, what comes in, what goes out.

02:28:42.880 So, like, all right.

02:28:43.520 You have to increase taxes or increase the worker load.

02:28:45.480 Right.

02:28:46.080 Not the worker load, but the—

02:28:47.740 Like the amount of workers.

02:28:48.840 When the trust fund runs out, how much is—how—what will payments be?

02:28:53.880 I don't know.

02:28:54.220 Okay.

02:28:56.260 That's a pretty important aspect of this, right?

02:28:58.740 I mean, this is the incuriosity that you have about the basis.

02:29:02.520 What's the incurious about it?

02:29:04.400 You're not interested in what that means?

02:29:06.860 You know that the trust fund is insolvent in 10 years.

02:29:10.280 Uh-huh.

02:29:10.720 But you don't know what the implications of that.

02:29:12.640 The implications are older people will not have money and younger people have to pay more money.

02:29:16.220 When you say older people will not have money, how much less?

02:29:21.600 Well, it depends on what the government decides they're going to allocate.

02:29:24.240 No, no, no, no, no.

02:29:25.260 It's already set in stone.

02:29:26.540 Okay.

02:29:26.660 There's no allocation.

02:29:27.780 It's 85% of benefits will be paid out.

02:29:30.140 Uh-huh.

02:29:30.540 There'll be a loss of 15% benefits.

02:29:32.700 But not necessarily younger people are going to have to pay money.

02:29:35.360 New workers will have to.

02:29:36.280 No, no, no.

02:29:37.000 They're always going to have to pay, hopefully, with Social Security, unless the Republicans have their ability to cut it.

02:29:42.700 But the-

02:29:43.300 Oh, you're right.

02:29:43.620 It actually says 83%.

02:29:44.640 So, there you go.

02:29:46.020 Yeah.

02:29:46.480 Oh, you were wrong, Sam.

02:29:47.760 I was off by 2%.

02:29:48.740 You're right.

02:29:49.560 But these numbers, we should say, this is also, we should be clear.

02:29:53.220 Well, I accept-

02:29:53.820 There are three things in the actual state.

02:29:56.060 But let me just say this about Social Security.

02:29:57.100 But I accept your argument.

02:29:58.040 You are correct, and I apologize.

02:29:59.460 I just read the story.

02:30:00.720 I read the news, and I made an assessment about it, as I tend to do.

02:30:03.400 Yeah.

02:30:03.760 I think you need to, like, on some of these bigger issues, you've clearly gone very deep into the Civil War thing,

02:30:09.920 which we both agree has a very low chance of happening, you know, somewhere above zero.

02:30:14.240 We don't really talk about Social Security all that often.

02:30:16.120 I think, like, three or four times.

02:30:17.400 It's the most important function of our government.

02:30:19.980 Yeah.

02:30:20.580 I mean, really-

02:30:21.320 We went a bit over, but I do want to talk to you about abortion.

02:30:23.620 You want to do-

02:30:24.140 Sure.

02:30:24.360 About 10 minutes, we can talk about abortion. 0.66

02:30:25.880 What are your thoughts on where we're currently at?

02:30:28.080 Like, what do you think we should be doing?

02:30:29.740 What do I think we should be doing?

02:30:30.820 Well, we should, at the very least, be establishing, reestablishing Roe v. Wade statutorily.

02:30:37.000 I think the Supreme Court was wrong, and I believe that the Fourth Amendment requires that the federal government make an issue,

02:30:44.620 make a ruling specifically on the issue of abortion.

02:30:47.440 What that becomes, I don't know, but the concept of personhood needs to be ruled on one way or the other.

02:30:53.440 So this is not a state issue.

02:30:55.060 Trump is wrong about that.

02:30:55.820 But the personhood should-

02:30:57.540 No, I don't believe in personhood in the womb.

02:31:01.700 Right.

02:31:02.100 So you think the Supreme Court should say, no personhood in the womb?

02:31:06.640 Definitely.

02:31:07.740 I think the Supreme Court needs to answer one way or the other.

02:31:10.560 Well, I mean, it would put some things to rest.

02:31:14.600 I don't think they're going to do that.

02:31:16.140 I mean-

02:31:17.680 Trump is saying it should be a state's issue, and I believe that is absolutely incorrect.

02:31:21.280 No, I think we had an individual right that existed in this country for 50 years, and it was rolled back.

02:31:27.020 We've never had anything like that whatsoever.

02:31:29.440 I think it's a right that, when taken away, deprives people who have babies, their sovereignty over their own body, 0.91

02:31:42.040 and it's both an economic issue.

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02:33:08.140 Did I mention that we care?

02:33:12.060 You and a personal liberty issue.

02:33:18.140 Do you think there should be restrictions on abortion?

02:33:20.540 I mean, the problem with the restrictions, like, for instance, we say only in the case of, let's say, a danger to a woman, you know, or a woman's life,

02:33:38.260 is that that is extremely difficult to assess where that line is.

02:33:44.500 We've seen this.

02:33:45.340 Two women have died at least in Texas as a function of the abortion ban that they have there.

02:33:52.120 We also know that infant mortality in the wake of the Texas thing, because there's been studies on this, increased 15 percent in the wake of the abortion ban there.

02:34:02.940 So, in general, I would say that restrictions are, in practice, not viable, not doable, because you end up costing women their lives.

02:34:18.740 I think that to the extent that I would have restrictions, I think you need a medical provider to provide abortions, you know, in that go past the maybe midway through the second trimester.

02:34:32.080 Like, do you think that with elective abortion should be available up to nine months?

02:34:37.680 If it's, if it is a, I think that is the safest route for women, if it is done by a medical provider, yeah. 0.95

02:34:47.980 Elective.

02:34:49.060 That's what I mean, I was, I asked elective, to be clear.

02:34:52.780 Elective.

02:34:53.320 Meaning, no reason given, no medical issues, just a woman saying, you know what, my, my. 1.00

02:34:59.000 I've carried this baby for eight and a half months and I've changed my mind.

02:35:02.120 Well, it's a little crass way of putting it.

02:35:03.500 I think some women are going through some serious crises in their lives and they may make a decision that's a bit more than just they've changed their mind. 0.96

02:35:09.780 Like, for instance, where a woman is being battered by her husband and then she realizes at month six that if she has this kid, he's going to continue to beat and harm the child and she can't stay with him or something.

02:35:20.340 Well, I think, you know, like, I'm not going to assess people's reasons for having an abortion.

02:35:24.900 It's not really my business, but I think that having restrictions ends up costing women's lives. 1.00

02:35:32.680 And and so I would, on balance, not not have restrictions outside of like, obviously, like, you know, particularly as you get further into the pregnancy requirements about medical, you know, medical certified medical providers.

02:35:49.260 So let's say let's say you have a scenario where a woman goes to a Planned Parenthood, six months pregnant, and she just says, I don't want to explain it.

02:35:58.060 I just would like to get an abortion. Is that a she should be allowed? 1.00

02:36:00.880 There should be just medical professionals say we're going to do it.

02:36:03.180 We're not going to ask you why.

02:36:05.040 I think I think it's OK to, you know, explore it and get a sense, you know, as you would for any type of like, you know, medical procedure.

02:36:15.660 What does that mean? Like, I think that there's there's an obligation within the context of like ethical practice of medicine to not just terminate a baby at six months without reason.

02:36:27.760 Well, no, I'm not saying that they should adjudicate this, but I don't think that like the, you know, necessarily medical providers are going to be just like, you know, hop up here.

02:36:38.220 We'll just do this right now.

02:36:39.340 I mean, I think there are procedures in which they do it, but essentially, as long as it's like sort of like, you know, they're following, you know, medical procedures.

02:36:48.940 Like, I don't think that somebody can, you know, walk in here at six months and say to you, like, can you get rid of my baby?

02:36:54.420 And you're allowed to do it.

02:36:55.680 No, but I'm just asking, like, should there be a time limit like 16 weeks?

02:36:59.520 I think that that is that endangers women too much. 0.93

02:37:05.080 So the answer is no, I don't, I don't believe so.

02:37:09.500 So, but that would create a circumstance, be it as rare as, you know, it may be, but where there's like an eight month abortion.

02:37:16.360 It's conceivable.

02:37:19.060 I mean, certainly in the eighth or ninth month.

02:37:21.920 I mean, here's the thing.

02:37:23.020 In the eighth or ninth month, you can, you may find that the child is going to not be viable.

02:37:30.700 We're not talking about that.

02:37:31.500 We're talking about elective.

02:37:32.440 I'm specifically trying to ask about that.

02:37:34.060 But here's the danger, though.

02:37:35.340 Like, and this is what I'm talking about, why you have women who have died in Texas, and there's probably a lot more that we're not aware of, is that imposing these restrictions is not like there's no, there's no, like, bulb that shows up when you say this child is 100% not viable.

02:37:59.920 Or that you are, you know, like, you're not threatened.

02:38:01.920 Or that you are, your life is 100% not threatened.

02:38:04.120 Like, where's the threshold?

02:38:05.680 Is it at 20%?

02:38:06.960 If the woman's life is in jeopardy, it's 20%. 0.74

02:38:09.480 And this is, you know, a vague, you know, a doctor doesn't have like some meter that they put on the, you know, the woman and say, oh, okay, your life is at 20%.

02:38:18.420 Uh, no, these are vague, uh, uh, determinations.

02:38:23.340 And when you impose these type of restrictions on what invariably happens is women die because in real life, not hypothetical world, in real life, the doctors are afraid of, of crossing a threshold where they could get imprisoned or they could lose their license.

02:38:42.540 Or, uh, you know, conceivably the woman might too. 0.74

02:38:46.680 And so I leave it up to a doctor and the patient.

02:38:51.180 I don't know what constitutes even elective.

02:38:54.760 Like, is it elective if there's a 20% chance I'm going to die?

02:38:58.480 No, that's not elective.

02:38:59.820 It's not elective.

02:39:00.340 What about 5%? 0.94

02:39:01.300 That's not elective.

02:39:02.020 What about 1%? 0.95

02:39:02.640 Not elective.

02:39:03.200 Okay.

02:39:04.280 We know that.

02:39:05.580 Elective is usually used to describe.

02:39:07.460 0.5%.

02:39:08.020 I've decided I don't want the baby anymore.

02:39:09.220 Because we know that, you know, there's always a danger of a woman dying in childbirth.

02:39:14.740 And it's not, it's above zero.

02:39:17.120 So we're.

02:39:17.460 Oh, come on, come on. 1.00

02:39:18.540 No.

02:39:18.920 We're trying to be reasonable, right?

02:39:20.040 No, no.

02:39:20.400 We want to solve the problem.

02:39:21.300 We don't want to just say, oh, well.

02:39:22.300 What's the problem?

02:39:23.400 There are conservatives who believe that if the baby is, well, for many, I don't even believe in IVF because even a fertilized, you know, embryo is life.

02:39:31.420 What's the problem?

02:39:32.060 I understand that there are religious people who don't like what I do, but what's the problem?

02:39:36.900 The death of a baby.

02:39:37.540 Well, it's, I would contend that we're talking about the death of a fetus.

02:39:45.380 So the issue is whether someone determines personhood or not is a legal constitutional question that needs to be answered.

02:39:52.760 For instance, in Civil War, they didn't think black people were humans who had civil rights.

02:39:57.320 And that's clearly the psychotic way to view the world.

02:40:01.080 But you holding the view that an unborn child is or is not, an individual who holds a view, whether they are or not, is an unanswered question at the Supreme Court level that I believe sooner or later will be answered.

02:40:12.040 And they may make a determination that the unborn are persons who are. 0.59

02:40:15.320 What do you think?

02:40:17.940 Man, that's tough.

02:40:18.700 I tend to be traditionally pro-choice.

02:40:21.140 I think that when you have...

02:40:24.560 Do you think there should be restrictions on abortion?

02:40:26.460 100%.

02:40:26.840 100%.

02:40:27.300 What should those restrictions be?

02:40:29.280 Time limit for sure.

02:40:30.800 But I don't know.

02:40:31.440 I'm not smart enough to give you a certain amount of time.

02:40:33.720 But here's the problem is that when you're in practice, that time limit ends up killing women.

02:40:39.860 Well, you've got a dying baby or a dying woman, and we're trying to figure out how to save them both.

02:40:43.660 Well, I mean, one is...

02:40:45.320 Restrictions are if the baby can survive, why kill it?

02:40:49.500 So you're saying viability.

02:40:51.140 So viability is huge, and medical technology is rapidly expanding that.

02:40:55.400 But there are still a lot of questions in how we handle it.

02:40:57.580 So my position is that the government can't mandate one person provide their body to another person.

02:41:01.360 However, if a person provides consent in the initial phase, now they have an obligation for a certain time period.

02:41:09.120 So if you have sex and you get pregnant, you are obligated to carry that baby to term. 0.99

02:41:14.900 Is that what you're saying?

02:41:15.760 I think that I'd be in favor of abortion up to a certain point.

02:41:18.720 Well, but what's the...

02:41:20.000 I don't understand what the logic is there.

02:41:22.000 Logic is compromise.

02:41:24.000 Oh, so this is just a question of splitting the baby in half, literally.

02:41:27.760 Not literally splitting the baby in half.

02:41:29.480 It is, can the government tell someone you must provide your body and blood to another person?

02:41:34.380 And you say they can up to a certain point.

02:41:37.080 The questions of consent play a role in whether you allow someone and then have an obligation to them based on the requirement.

02:41:43.280 So, for instance, like rape, 100% exception.

02:41:46.940 Health of the mother, 100% exception. 0.74

02:41:49.180 Okay, so let's take rape. 1.00

02:41:50.860 Yeah. 0.96

02:41:51.420 Yeah, the woman can choose. 1.00

02:41:53.980 Okay.

02:41:55.300 What establishes rape? 0.89

02:41:56.920 When a person does not consent.

02:41:59.740 Okay.

02:42:00.540 How...

02:42:01.140 Rape is a criminal term, right?

02:42:06.080 Indeed.

02:42:06.520 So, you need to go through the court case.

02:42:09.180 Perhaps.

02:42:09.940 What do you mean perhaps?

02:42:11.060 Well... 0.99

02:42:11.340 Like, can I come in and say, I was raped? 0.99

02:42:13.420 And that's it? 0.99

02:42:14.180 All I need to do is say, I was raped? 0.65

02:42:15.800 Nope. 0.97

02:42:16.980 Okay.

02:42:17.580 So, you need to have a court case.

02:42:19.320 No, I didn't say that either.

02:42:20.520 There would have to be some degree of...

02:42:21.460 Well, you keep telling me what you're not saying, but why don't you just say what you're saying?

02:42:24.720 How do you establish...

02:42:25.500 No, you gotta calm down.

02:42:26.480 No, well, how do you establish if rape has taken place or not?

02:42:30.860 So, there's rape kits, right?

02:42:32.340 And we can check for abrasions, and a woman who was raped certainly would want to get a 1.00

02:42:36.040 rape kit done, I'd imagine.

02:42:37.740 Well, okay.

02:42:38.540 First of all...

02:42:39.220 But if you're asking...

02:42:39.760 We know for a fact...

02:42:40.740 If you're asking for...

02:42:41.600 Hold on.

02:42:42.160 We know for a fact that a lot of women, A, don't seek rape kits for whatever reason, 1.00

02:42:48.640 because they're afraid to...

02:42:50.720 Okay, so if you don't get a rape kit... 1.00

02:42:52.500 We have responsibilities to ourselves and to others, and sometimes those choices are

02:42:55.780 very difficult to make.

02:42:56.860 So, just the existence of a rape kit will establish that rape has happened. 0.98

02:43:01.760 Why do we need court cases to establish that rape has happened? 1.00

02:43:04.260 I didn't say we did.

02:43:05.040 I said no.

02:43:06.700 Okay, so...

02:43:07.240 So, a medical professional who assesses that a rape has occurred, I believe, is...

02:43:12.020 What if they go in too many days after to get a rape kit? 0.93

02:43:16.060 And then there's no evidence of a rape taking place?

02:43:19.180 Yeah.

02:43:19.380 That would be a restriction.

02:43:20.560 Okay.

02:43:20.960 So, who makes that adjudication?

02:43:23.680 In...

02:43:24.080 If a rape took place?

02:43:25.740 Yeah.

02:43:26.720 The person administering the rape kit.

02:43:28.480 So, we would put rape kit people who are administering this and look at the evidence,

02:43:34.100 and do you think it's just, like, completely binary?

02:43:36.600 Do you think, like, when you get a rape kit, like, this person has definitely been raped,

02:43:40.260 or this person has definitely not been raped?

02:43:42.600 I think that we're dealing with something outside of the simplicity of, I can go to court,

02:43:48.260 it takes six months to a year to figure something out, which means there's a compromise.

02:43:52.480 How can we come to the best determination to make sure that women are not lying, which 1.00

02:43:57.060 I assume would be exceedingly rare, and we're actually going after the criminals?

02:44:00.560 I do not think it's fair to put the burden on someone to perform an abortion without actually

02:44:05.640 taking the responsibility of yourself and saying, look, victims have responsibilities.

02:44:10.260 And it's unfortunate that they're victims, but we're trying our best.

02:44:13.720 So, if you don't, you don't go, so, let's say, for instance, like, I mean, I don't know

02:44:21.840 if you've ever, you know, spent any time exploring the psychological and the sort of, like, social

02:44:30.980 pressures on people to report rape.

02:44:33.160 I mean, but you're basically saying that if you don't go and get a rape kit, it's contingent

02:44:38.780 upon the police department to assess this rape kit.

02:44:43.040 If you go too late-

02:44:44.240 Is that who's administering the rape kit?

02:44:45.840 Yeah.

02:44:46.940 It's not a doctor?

02:44:48.140 No, I mean, they may have medical things.

02:44:50.340 I was talking about a doctor.

02:44:51.940 She goes to the doctor. 0.97

02:44:52.580 She says, I've been raped.

02:44:53.540 They do a kit, and they say, okay.

02:44:54.760 And then she says, I would not want to have a pregnancy from this.

02:44:57.060 Now, do you, honestly, like, do you know how this works?

02:44:59.260 It's not, like, it's a preponderance of the evidence.

02:45:01.360 I mean, and it's like, so you're basically saying the doctor gets to decide-

02:45:04.940 I am.

02:45:05.300 You don't think doctors should be able to decide to give a woman an abortion?

02:45:07.900 No, I think doctors can decide.

02:45:10.120 Well, I think doctors are responsible for-

02:45:13.940 This is a compromise.

02:45:15.000 I'm pro-choice, but I recognize that we're not going to live in a society where one side's

02:45:18.260 demanding an extreme, the other side's demanding the other extreme.

02:45:20.080 So you think the rule should be if you get a-

02:45:22.580 A doctor makes-

02:45:23.200 Rape kit. 0.52

02:45:23.620 What if it's somebody who-

02:45:24.940 We're talking about edge cases.

02:45:26.120 I mean, I don't know why you're getting so much into the edge cases.

02:45:28.560 Well, I mean-

02:45:29.660 I mean, how often does this even happen?

02:45:31.040 How often do people go in and get an abortion at eight and a half months because they feel

02:45:35.300 like it?

02:45:35.940 That's my point.

02:45:36.940 Yeah, very, very few.

02:45:38.340 Right.

02:45:38.700 So why are you bringing it up?

02:45:39.860 Well, because the people who you would create restrictions are going to cause-

02:45:44.120 Exceedingly rare and not even an issue.

02:45:46.180 So then why would we have any restrictions whatsoever?

02:45:49.200 Because, what do you mean?

02:45:50.280 So babies at eight months don't have their lives ended?

02:45:53.820 Well, I mean, what if there are reasons for it?

02:45:57.040 I mean, that's then requiring adjudication, but it's so exceedingly rare, you're arguing

02:46:01.540 an edge case for a dramatic change in policy.

02:46:03.920 You're-

02:46:04.560 I'm not.

02:46:05.360 I'm saying-

02:46:05.920 It's not a dramatic change in policy.

02:46:06.800 There are, I think, like 10 states.

02:46:07.300 It's kind of wild that I'm like, women should be able to get abortions, but you're like, 0.90

02:46:10.020 yes, but in these exceedingly rare circumstances, we should remove all restrictions because

02:46:13.420 sometimes-

02:46:14.720 Excuse me.

02:46:15.120 I think there's 10 states, at least.

02:46:16.820 I know you can look this up, where there are no restrictions.

02:46:19.640 I agree.

02:46:20.100 Yeah.

02:46:20.300 Colorado's one.

02:46:20.800 This is not some type of radical change of policy.

02:46:24.180 It exists.

02:46:24.840 No, this is recent.

02:46:25.620 After the end of Roe v. Wade, these are the restrictions that- these changes started

02:46:29.280 happening across the board.

02:46:30.180 I mean, I can understand that.

02:46:31.500 Do you agree with those states removing restrictions?

02:46:33.380 Like I say, yes, because I think-

02:46:35.440 That's not Roe v. Wade.

02:46:36.560 That's the end of Roe v. Wade.

02:46:37.320 Oh, I said at least go back to Roe v. Wade. 0.71

02:46:40.320 Didn't Roe v. Wade have a provision on viability?

02:46:42.640 It was an additional case that people don't bring up.

02:46:44.600 That was in the 90s.

02:46:45.800 The Casey.

02:46:46.720 Is that what it was?

02:46:47.360 There was a question about viability and whether or not you can end the life of-

02:46:50.860 Well, the court said in Casey, it just changed the date in which, or I should say the week

02:47:00.620 in which states could then begin to impose restrictions on that right to get an abortion. 1.00

02:47:08.660 Right.

02:47:09.780 Yeah.

02:47:10.180 No, I'm- I think these other restrictions end up killing people.

02:47:14.840 The overturning of Roe and Casey resulted in states removing restrictions.

02:47:19.680 Correct.

02:47:20.580 Wait, I'm sorry.

02:47:21.140 Say that again?

02:47:21.720 The overturning of Roe v. Wade created the legal precedence by which states could begin to remove restrictions.

02:47:26.940 No, no, no.

02:47:27.600 They could.

02:47:28.460 I think they could have done that prior to that.

02:47:30.740 I think they could have done that prior to that.

02:47:32.700 So, the question ultimately is, I'm not going to come down as the supreme judge and just say, like, it must be.

02:47:41.020 You know, the right is wrong. 0.99

02:47:42.460 I say, and I've told Republicans this, if I was a woman that got raped and you told me I had to have a baby, I'd blow my brains up. 0.99

02:47:48.860 Like, there is no fucking way you will tell me that I'm going to, by force, without my consent, give my body to somebody. 1.00

02:47:54.580 You are telling that woman who got raped that you have to announce this. 1.00

02:48:04.060 You need to follow certain procedures as a victim of a crime, and if you don't, we're going to force you to carry that child to term.

02:48:13.680 Yes, 100%.

02:48:14.400 Okay.

02:48:15.380 There is a responsibility we have as victims of crimes as well, and one of the problems we have in this country is that-

02:48:20.900 That's an interesting theory.

02:48:22.440 Well, it's true, right?

02:48:23.860 If you're a victim and you want accountability and justice, you have to go to court.

02:48:27.820 Well, what if you make the determination that, I don't want to go through what is involved with getting accountability and justice, but I also don't want to carry my rapist child?

02:48:40.140 In that scenario, the woman is out of luck, according to you. 0.71

02:48:43.960 If you are not willing to take your responsibilities-

02:48:49.900 The responsibilities that-

02:48:51.320 Of victims.

02:48:51.820 That the rapist has imposed upon you. 0.84

02:48:53.940 Indeed, yes. 0.99

02:48:54.940 Okay.

02:48:55.260 So, what do you call this, the Rapist in Power Act?

02:48:59.180 I suppose you'd say that liberals have a view that they have no responsibilities at all, that there is no requirements-

02:49:04.220 I don't feel like I have a responsibility.

02:49:06.120 I certainly don't feel that if I was someone who could be-

02:49:13.220 I am making an argument.

02:49:14.640 Well, the Rapist's Responsibility Act is an emotional nonsense.

02:49:17.400 No, it isn't.

02:49:18.280 It's exactly-

02:49:19.180 We're talking about a person's responsibility to society.

02:49:21.240 That is exactly what you're suggesting is tantamount.

02:49:23.180 No, it's drama nonsense.

02:49:24.140 No, it's not drama nonsense.

02:49:25.020 It's prop clipping.

02:49:25.720 No, it is not prop-

02:49:26.340 Yes, you are.

02:49:27.220 Come on. 0.99

02:49:27.760 Dude, I don't give a shit about- 1.00

02:49:30.060 Make an argument, don't say nonsense words like rape- 0.99

02:49:32.260 The argument is, is that what you are suggesting is that a woman who is raped has a responsibility that has been bestowed upon them by the rapist. 0.87

02:49:42.200 The rapist has chosen you. 0.54

02:49:44.140 This is a- 1.00

02:49:44.520 If I shoot you in the face, I have imparted upon you a responsibility. 0.99

02:49:52.340 What you're talking about is fascistic. 0.99

02:49:55.060 Like, it is-

02:49:56.300 Sam, do you think that if someone commits a crime against you-

02:49:59.140 And so, I'm sorry I said Rape Empowerment Act and tried to do it in a more satirical way. 0.92

02:50:03.840 But what you're talking about is disgusting. 0.95

02:50:04.900 Your logic centers are shutting down. 0.96

02:50:06.100 And listen, no, no, no.

02:50:06.900 You're getting overly emotional.

02:50:07.980 No, I'm not.

02:50:08.620 You are not speaking logically anymore.

02:50:10.500 No, no, no.

02:50:10.940 What you're doing is-

02:50:11.720 When a person is a victim of a crime, they have to file paperwork to get accountability.

02:50:16.460 You're trying to pretend like you can find something in here, but it is absolutely nonsense.

02:50:20.520 Yes, it is.

02:50:21.140 You are no longer talking about the issue, nor the law.

02:50:23.400 If anybody sees-

02:50:24.400 Oh, I am definitely talking about it.

02:50:25.020 You are getting overly emotional.

02:50:26.660 I don't-

02:50:27.200 You're talking about my person.

02:50:28.500 You're doing ad hominems.

02:50:29.600 You've lost it.

02:50:30.540 No, no.

02:50:31.380 Sam, let's start with the law. 1.00

02:50:32.760 You're so full of crap. 1.00

02:50:34.180 It's amazing. 1.00

02:50:34.480 You see, here you go.

02:50:34.800 It's amazing.

02:50:35.380 You can't even make an argument anymore, can you?

02:50:37.060 I don't need to.

02:50:38.060 You don't need to make arguments.

02:50:39.220 No, no, no.

02:50:39.980 Everybody who has watched this knows-

02:50:41.460 He's watching you have an emotional breakdown on camera.

02:50:42.300 You're saying that a rape victim has a responsibility that has been bestowed upon them by the rapist. 0.98

02:50:47.860 It's gross. 1.00

02:50:48.820 It's disgusting. 0.89

02:50:49.600 You are having an emotional breakdown right now. 0.92

02:50:51.740 I'm not having an emotional breakdown right now.

02:50:54.200 Do you think the police should be-

02:50:55.140 I'm getting exercise.

02:50:55.980 You want to wait?

02:50:56.680 Because I'm thinking of my daughter.

02:50:58.280 Here we go.

02:50:58.760 Oh, here it is.

02:51:00.240 And I'm thinking of the idea that a rapist could force her to do something- 0.61

02:51:04.880 Sam, you're spiraling.

02:51:06.240 No, no, I'm not-

02:51:06.920 You're spiraling.

02:51:07.460 You're spiraling.

02:51:08.340 You're not even stopping talking.

02:51:10.040 You're afraid because you just found out-

02:51:10.800 You're not even stopping talking.

02:51:11.880 You never think about anything that you say.

02:51:13.720 We're going to say something.

02:51:14.560 You're upset.

02:51:14.960 We're going to talk, or are you going to keep just talking about nonsense?

02:51:17.240 I just face you in front of all of your audience.

02:51:18.600 Are you going to wait for-

02:51:19.780 You're prop clipping. 1.00

02:51:20.420 You're rapist empowerment act. 0.99

02:51:20.900 You're prop clipping, Sam. 0.99

02:51:22.240 You're prop clipping.

02:51:22.900 I don't even know what that means.

02:51:24.120 Yes, you do.

02:51:24.820 No, I don't.

02:51:25.260 Yes, you do.

02:51:25.960 You're prop clipping again.

02:51:26.920 What is prop clipping?

02:51:27.520 You're not arguing abortion anymore.

02:51:29.220 What is prop clipping? 1.00

02:51:30.040 You said, Tim, you're full of crap. 1.00

02:51:31.360 You're not arguing abortion anymore. 1.00

02:51:32.760 Because- 0.99

02:51:33.420 You disgust me. 1.00

02:51:33.860 Oh, rape, blah, blah. 1.00

02:51:35.380 You stopped arguing. 0.99

02:51:36.660 You're saying that a rapist- 0.99

02:51:37.420 You stopped arguing, and you started doing performative garbage for the camera. 0.99

02:51:40.860 No. 0.80

02:51:41.100 You want to have a discussion, Sam?

02:51:43.260 Dude, the best part of this-

02:51:44.400 Do you want to have a discussion, or are you going to keep talking?

02:51:45.740 Was tying you in knots about the idea-

02:51:46.980 Do you want to have a discussion?

02:51:47.720 That a rapist can force a woman- 0.64

02:51:49.860 Here you go again. 0.99

02:51:50.440 Here you go again.

02:51:51.660 You're making things up.

02:51:52.400 I'm reiterating-

02:51:53.280 You're prop clipping.

02:51:53.720 I am reiterating-

02:51:54.720 You're prop clipping.

02:51:56.100 I am reiterating your position.

02:51:57.600 You're getting overly emotional.

02:51:59.320 You're getting heated.

02:52:00.100 You're finger pointing.

02:52:00.860 You're throwing slurs and name calling.

02:52:04.000 What's the slur?

02:52:04.860 Well, forgive me. 1.00

02:52:05.800 You're so full of crap. 1.00

02:52:06.820 You disgust me. 1.00

02:52:07.820 But that's not an idea. 0.97

02:52:09.180 You want to have a discussion?

02:52:09.600 I've got to be honest with you.

02:52:10.440 You want to have a discussion, or are you going to have an emotional breakdown?

02:52:12.440 You know what?

02:52:13.380 I am going to continue with the so-called emotional breakdown, because honestly, I think-

02:52:18.500 That's right, Sam.

02:52:19.140 No, I honestly-

02:52:20.520 I honestly-

02:52:20.980 Let's solve our problems by Sam just freaking out and having emotional breakdowns on camera.

02:52:24.900 I honestly think that what you do is so damaging.

02:52:28.620 Oh, no.

02:52:29.300 And this-

02:52:30.160 Here he goes.

02:52:30.680 Whole notion that you would allow-

02:52:32.400 It took two hours and 40 minutes for you to break.

02:52:35.100 Yeah.

02:52:35.520 You broke.

02:52:35.880 This whole-

02:52:36.360 Sam.

02:52:37.220 Why are you keeping me from talking?

02:52:39.080 Because you haven't let me talk one time.

02:52:41.080 Okay, go ahead.

02:52:41.880 Okay.

02:52:43.260 Victims of crimes who want accountability have responsibilities.

02:52:46.980 What if they don't want accountability?

02:52:48.540 What if they don't want to put themselves on the stand and have to point out-

02:52:51.620 And they don't get accountability.

02:52:52.200 That guy-

02:52:52.740 Okay.

02:52:53.260 But they have to carry the baby, right? 0.99

02:52:55.280 According to you.

02:52:56.020 If they don't want accountability, then this is a-

02:52:58.120 Then they have to carry the baby. 0.97

02:52:59.960 This is reality.

02:53:00.720 Say it.

02:53:01.620 A woman- 0.99

02:53:02.320 Say it. 1.00

02:53:02.900 If they don't want accountability, they have to carry that rapist baby. 1.00

02:53:07.480 If a woman does not want accountability for her rape, she will carry that baby. 1.00

02:53:11.540 She has to.

02:53:12.460 She has to, yeah.

02:53:13.220 Okay.

02:53:14.080 Good.

02:53:14.300 Up to 15 weeks.

02:53:15.220 That's the prop clip I want right there.

02:53:16.700 Up to 15 weeks.

02:53:17.500 I mean, I think we have come to an agreement.

02:53:22.540 That women can get abortions if they're so- 1.00

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02:54:48.100 Did I mention that we care?

02:54:49.480 They don't want to pursue their rapists in a public setting and they don't want to go

02:55:03.160 through that.

02:55:03.820 Sam, you're having an emotional breakdown.

02:55:08.780 You've stopped listening to what's being said.

02:55:10.840 You started getting angry, insulting. 1.00

02:55:13.540 You're disgusting. 1.00

02:55:14.620 How dare you? 1.00

02:55:15.800 This is...

02:55:16.300 And you know what?

02:55:16.720 You don't think saying to me that you're prop clipping.

02:55:19.520 I don't know what that means.

02:55:20.740 So it's when you stopped arguing abortion, finger pointing and waving your hands and saying,

02:55:27.180 I tied you in knots in front of the camera.

02:55:29.060 Yes.

02:55:29.640 And this is why people don't invite you on their show. 0.99

02:55:31.920 I don't give a shit. 0.99

02:55:33.100 I know. 0.99

02:55:33.540 I'll tell you something.

02:55:34.100 That's why you don't get invited on shows.

02:55:35.700 Because you don't care.

02:55:37.220 I know you don't care.

02:55:38.240 I'm not saying you do.

02:55:38.800 I don't care.

02:55:40.000 Honestly, like this is...

02:55:41.720 You start the show off going, I don't want to talk politics.

02:55:43.520 I want to talk about how you said mean things about me before.

02:55:45.720 Oh, yeah.

02:55:46.200 I wanted to get that.

02:55:47.220 Oh, wait.

02:55:47.420 Yeah, you're WWE politics.

02:55:49.460 No, no.

02:55:50.440 Listen.

02:55:51.100 We're talking about how do we effectively have law on abortion.

02:55:54.320 That should be a woman can do whatever she wants up to 15, 16 weeks, maybe even 22. 1.00

02:55:58.460 I don't know what the time limit is.

02:55:59.700 But if the baby is viable, there has to be accountability.

02:56:02.240 None of what you're saying is meaningful at all.

02:56:05.340 That there should be a time restriction on...

02:56:06.740 15, 22, you're just throwing around numbers.

02:56:09.420 Because there's a debate on how long that duration should be.

02:56:12.080 But my position is that pre-viability, I don't know, some say 22, some say 26.

02:56:16.520 My addressing view is that the restrictions that you're pushing...

02:56:19.680 Getting angry and you're disgusting and the emotional breakdown. 0.82

02:56:22.880 Yeah. 0.96

02:56:23.500 My emotional breakdown to you is that when you put these restrictions on women, they, in 1.00

02:56:29.440 practice, are impossible to actually execute.

02:56:34.220 And you have shown that by saying that if a woman refuses to go in front of a court...

02:56:40.280 I never said that.

02:56:40.820 Wait.

02:56:42.600 This is what I said, Sam.

02:56:44.420 For the love of all that is holy.

02:56:44.720 If it doesn't take accountability, what does accountability mean?

02:56:47.360 A rape kit.

02:56:48.440 Okay.

02:56:49.000 So if a rape kit... 1.00

02:56:50.080 You're saying, I was raped with no proof and no evidence, and therefore I should be 0.95

02:56:52.600 able to turn it in a six-month baby.

02:56:53.500 They've got to go in within 24 to 36 hours and say to a doctor, I was raped. 0.95

02:56:58.180 And if they don't do that, then they're forced to carry the rapist baby. 1.00

02:57:01.180 Depending on what you want to happen in society, there are things you have to do.

02:57:05.120 Sometimes you may not want to have to do them, but this idea you have that people...

02:57:08.520 What you're proposing is that the state should be able to enforce crimes against people without 0.95

02:57:12.640 evidence.

02:57:13.580 What?

02:57:15.380 You want accountability, but you do not want to go to the...

02:57:17.980 I don't want accountability. 0.98

02:57:18.920 I just don't want this woman to have to carry a rapist baby. 1.00

02:57:22.360 Right. 0.99

02:57:22.640 So this is very fifth grade, right?

02:57:25.340 There is a legal system that exists.

02:57:27.520 We have to work within a legal system because we have compromises in a social contract with 0.98

02:57:31.080 other people.

02:57:31.600 The idea that I can take action against another person without proper adjudication is fascistic.

02:57:37.920 What we have to do is figure out what are the terms for each individual circumstance.

02:57:41.160 Who's the other person you're talking about?

02:57:43.180 So we're...

02:57:43.960 The baby.

02:57:45.080 Oh, so you...

02:57:45.800 At six months.

02:57:46.880 You consider a baby a person at six months.

02:57:50.020 Viability.

02:57:50.300 Let me ask you this.

02:57:51.580 If...

02:57:51.740 Well, I consider a baby a person the whole time.

02:57:56.240 A fetus.

02:57:57.180 A person the whole time.

02:57:58.580 Life begins at conception.

02:57:59.460 But the state doesn't have...

02:58:01.080 Life begins at conception.

02:58:02.420 But yes.

02:58:03.260 But the state doesn't have...

02:58:04.420 You believe that in the context of immigration?

02:58:06.000 But the state doesn't have the authority to tell a person when they must give their body

02:58:10.380 to another person.

02:58:11.480 There's arguments over consent, in which case rape is an exception.

02:58:16.460 However, I'm pro-choice.

02:58:18.380 Okay.

02:58:21.280 So what we're talking about now, because, you know, make sure you include this in the context,

02:58:24.660 and I'm glad you're here, I can say it to you, is a woman up to pre-viability, in my

02:58:28.700 opinion, should be allowed to get an abortion if she so chooses because of the impossibility 1.00

02:58:33.820 of properly adjudicating anything in between.

02:58:36.020 I think that's where...

02:58:37.020 When I say you're having a breakdown, it's because I don't think you're listening to what

02:58:39.200 I'm saying.

02:58:40.260 After viability, we're talking about extenuating circumstances where a baby that could survive

02:58:44.280 on its own, there's now an issue there where the question becomes, why kill the baby?

02:58:49.900 If we're talking about a period where we're not sure the baby's viable or not, we're wondering

02:58:54.060 why the woman carried the baby this long. 1.00

02:58:56.060 The issue is not so black and white for you to just say...

02:58:59.620 Well, you're saying this is about viability, not time limit.

02:59:06.060 Yeah, I'm not...

02:59:07.320 You keep vacillating back and forth.

02:59:10.960 I mean, maybe you don't realize this, but there's completely...

02:59:14.280 If you can't understand, I'll explain it to you.

02:59:15.720 Everything you're saying is inconsistent with what you're saying.

02:59:17.520 What week is viability?

02:59:19.400 What week is viability?

02:59:20.820 Yes.

02:59:21.140 I mean, I think there's some debate about that.

02:59:23.200 Agreed.

02:59:23.600 My point is, I don't know the point at which we as a society will determine it's going to

02:59:27.780 be 16 or 22 or 26.

02:59:30.040 I'm not a scientist or a medical doctor.

02:59:32.400 I agree there's an issue where if the baby can survive on its own, there's no reason to

02:59:35.320 kill it.

02:59:35.600 Well, I mean, would you be in favor of a woman getting a C-section in four or five months just 0.98

02:59:48.400 because she doesn't want to carry the baby anymore? 1.00

02:59:51.440 If the baby can survive on its own, my position is typically the woman can make that choice 0.99

02:59:55.000 as long as the baby's not being killed.

02:59:57.100 But, you know, so do you know how they perform abortions after that point?

03:00:03.520 How they perform abortions after what? 0.99

03:00:06.260 Like, there's varying degrees of how abortions are performed.

03:00:09.440 So the question I have is this.

03:00:11.060 Let me put it this way.

03:00:12.540 You know...

03:00:13.100 Like dilation and extraction?

03:00:14.540 Are you talking about...

03:00:15.640 My position largely is we've got two real distinct worldviews on this one that are extreme

03:00:21.220 ends.

03:00:22.340 They neither agree with each other.

03:00:23.760 And I'm trying to navigate in between to get people to be like, look, there's got to

03:00:26.980 be some standard.

03:00:27.980 Dude, these are...

03:00:29.160 The ideas behind anti-abortion are primarily religious fundamentalism.

03:00:34.920 And it is about maintaining a gender hierarchy. 1.00

03:00:39.200 And the idea that you can negotiate, you're basically taking Hillary Clinton's position from

03:00:43.460 2004.

03:00:44.600 Probably.

03:00:45.200 And it is...

03:00:47.620 It doesn't work that way.

03:00:49.760 The fundamentalists who are pushing this ideology, and it's largely fundamentalists, and if not

03:00:56.580 directly, certainly downstream from a religious fundamentalism, they're not interested in your

03:01:02.960 compromise.

03:01:04.520 It is...

03:01:05.760 And the proof of it is...

03:01:07.400 Not interested in yours.

03:01:08.640 I'm not compromising.

03:01:10.660 The proof of it is after 50 years, there was a compromise.

03:01:14.860 It was Casey, exactly what you're talking about, which is why when you asked me at the beginning,

03:01:20.220 I said, at the very least, go back to Roe v. Wade and maintain those protections.

03:01:25.380 But that equilibrium was not enough for the right-wing Republican Party.

03:01:29.800 And so, therefore, that's where we're at now.

03:01:33.180 That's the end of story.

03:01:34.940 And now we have states with no restrictions, and we have states with absolute restrictions.

03:01:38.240 There was a compromise, and the right-wing in this country did not want it.

03:01:44.680 That's it.

03:01:45.740 That's why this is a debate.

03:01:48.220 And you have an individual right that has cost the lives of multiple women across the country.

03:01:54.620 It has increased infant mortality, like I said, at least in Texas, by 15%.

03:01:59.240 And I think it also, and I think it's much harder to measure this, but it subjugates women in this country 1.00

03:02:09.620 because it basically says you have less rights to have bodily autonomy, and that's just the beginning.

03:02:17.220 Yeah, I agree with that one. 0.97

03:02:18.880 Yeah, as I stated, if I was a woman and I was raped and I was forced to carry the baby, I'd blow my brains out.

03:02:24.100 And so that's why I say up to a certain point, I'm pro-choice, up to a certain time period. 0.94

03:02:30.500 Because I agree, after the baby can live on its own, I don't understand why you kill it.

03:02:35.080 If there was a way to have the type of restrictions you're talking and have a child be viable, you know,

03:02:43.920 outside of the womb and all of this, but in reality, that's not the way it works.

03:02:50.160 These things don't work the way that you're talking about.

03:02:53.100 The rape exceptions.

03:02:54.860 And you're going to, to be fair, this issue is the razor's edge.

03:02:58.140 There's no middle.

03:02:58.800 It's one side or the other.

03:03:00.460 It has to be in the way that it is in practice.

03:03:03.500 And frankly, but these are religious fundamentalists and they're not going to stop. 0.75

03:03:07.800 They're not going to stop with abortion. 0.99

03:03:10.040 They will come for IVF.

03:03:11.660 Of course they will.

03:03:13.160 I would also make the argument that I don't think the left will stop with their ideology either.

03:03:17.880 Both are going to.

03:03:18.520 I think, I mean, listen, you started this by saying Obama didn't even, in case Roe v. Wade in statute.

03:03:29.840 I mean, the left, this was.

03:03:31.720 My issue with that was Democrats and Republicans both will argue they're for something, but then use it as a wedge issue.

03:03:36.720 The left was essentially, as a political matter, was fine with Roe v. Wade and Casey, for that matter.

03:03:47.200 I mean, to the extent that there was any talk about abortion rights amongst Democrats and the left, it was to lock it in because the right is coming for this right.

03:04:00.420 And they, and they have now done it.

03:04:02.280 So, I mean, this, the false equivalency you're making here is just, is literally that.

03:04:06.260 What false equivalency?

03:04:06.980 Well, the idea that the left is pushing this agenda beyond.

03:04:09.860 No, what's happening is there was a compromise.

03:04:13.420 The right's got their agenda items, the left has their agenda items.

03:04:15.360 They're both pushing them endlessly.

03:04:17.260 Well, I mean, everybody's are political animals and they want, you know, they have their program for society.

03:04:24.180 Which is me agreeing with you.

03:04:25.040 You say Republicans won't stop.

03:04:26.300 And I say, I agree on the issues the left cares about.

03:04:27.980 They won't stop either.

03:04:28.840 Well, that's true.

03:04:30.180 And I think, you know, people make a determination whether they want a religious fundamentalist party to dictate their lives or not.

03:04:37.700 Or an ideological fundamentalist party.

03:04:39.360 Well, no, the fundamentalism is an ideology as well.

03:04:42.420 It just happens to be born in religion and religious fundamentalism.

03:04:46.960 Last question, because we've gone way over.

03:04:48.700 I do appreciate you hanging out.

03:04:50.340 Why do you think it is so many former liberals are now leaving the left?

03:04:56.780 I mean, people switch parties and ideologies all the time.

03:05:00.340 Not happening the other way around.

03:05:01.460 Is that right?

03:05:02.300 Yeah.

03:05:02.920 Well, I...

03:05:03.420 Like, where's a big right-wing pundit who joined a liberal network?

03:05:06.420 Like, Annika Sparian announcing she's leaving the left.

03:05:08.240 You know what I mean?

03:05:08.820 Or Dave Rubin.

03:05:11.020 I mean, listen, I...

03:05:14.080 If you want to say that these are, like, the intellectual pillars of...

03:05:17.880 Oh, certainly not.

03:05:18.540 I'm saying something's causing an emotional rift that makes people not want to be on the left anymore.

03:05:22.520 Well, I would suggest it's probably cash.

03:05:25.360 I mean, like you said...

03:05:26.040 You think Annika Sparian wanted money?

03:05:27.480 She said as much, as far as I know, in the past on TYT.

03:05:31.460 She said she would make more money by being not leftist?

03:05:33.420 I don't know if she said that.

03:05:35.220 I mean, but I know that on her show, on TYT, they have...

03:05:40.780 She has complained about not making money.

03:05:43.280 I don't know why she's... 0.99

03:05:45.120 She's still on TYT.

03:05:46.500 Like, aren't they going to lose members who are progressives?

03:05:49.000 I got to be honest with you.

03:05:49.900 I don't really pay that much attention to, like, showbiz.

03:05:53.320 Well, so outside of her, why are there so many people?

03:05:55.320 Like, you had the meme from Colin Wright where it shows the left going all the way to the far left

03:05:58.880 and liberals being like, what's happening?

03:06:00.920 I don't know who Colin Wright is.

03:06:02.280 Sure.

03:06:03.660 There's many prominent personalities who used to be liberals and now identify as moderates

03:06:08.400 or disaffected liberals or post-liberal.

03:06:11.960 Like, you're saying, like, a substantial amount to, like, sway an election or what do you...

03:06:16.900 Elon Musk?

03:06:18.180 Mark Zuckerberg.

03:06:19.920 I'm not going to call them progressives.

03:06:21.540 Why are billionaires becoming conservatives?

03:06:25.160 I didn't say they're becoming conservatives.

03:06:26.820 Why are billionaires...

03:06:29.100 Who are previously supporting Democrat politicians,

03:06:31.460 now aligning with...

03:06:33.860 Well, I would say, I mean, when you're talking about Zuckerberg or Elon Musk,

03:06:37.300 I would say Lena Kahn, head of the FTC.

03:06:41.940 I would say John Cantor at the DOJ antitrust.

03:06:48.760 Why...

03:06:49.100 So...

03:06:49.980 I think money...

03:06:51.020 I agree with you.

03:06:51.700 Absolutely.

03:06:52.520 Money is threatened by any type of sort of liberal stuff.

03:06:58.200 But why did they support Democrats before?

03:07:01.660 Why did they?

03:07:02.320 Yeah.

03:07:03.020 Well, because I think the Democrats went through a period of neoliberalism and Joe Biden, frankly,

03:07:08.480 ended that.

03:07:09.160 I mean, there's a ton of never-Trumpers in the Republican Party.

03:07:12.800 I agree.

03:07:13.080 I don't necessarily want them to influence our policy.

03:07:15.600 I completely agree with you on the...

03:07:17.060 I disagree with your assessment.

03:07:18.440 You're just looking at...

03:07:19.360 Right, no, you're completely right.

03:07:20.540 Dave Rubin and Anna Kasparian as some type of measure of stuff.

03:07:23.060 But you've got people like Eric Weinstein, for instance,

03:07:26.240 who says the craziness is primarily coming from the left.

03:07:28.740 Well, you can laugh at them all you want, but I'm curious.

03:07:30.480 I do laugh at him. 0.99

03:07:32.140 I think he's ridiculous. 0.98

03:07:33.680 This guy works for Peter... 0.99

03:07:34.620 The guy who works for Peter Thiel?

03:07:36.160 Yeah.

03:07:37.080 The CEFO of Peter Thiel.

03:07:40.160 Like what...

03:07:40.540 Okay, Brett Weinstein.

03:07:42.340 The...

03:07:42.740 Evolutionary biologist.

03:07:43.680 The evolutionary biologist.

03:07:45.960 The guy who was mad about pronouns?

03:07:48.060 That's not him.

03:07:48.620 No, that's Jordan Peterson.

03:07:49.780 Oh, I get confused on which...

03:07:52.080 Brett Weinstein was the professor who got...

03:07:54.880 He got ousted from a university over...

03:07:57.360 I think it was a racial disparity.

03:07:58.900 Oh, he's the anti-vaxxer guy.

03:08:00.900 No.

03:08:01.720 Yeah.

03:08:02.840 The COVID pandemic, the one who's with his wife. 0.91

03:08:06.380 He does a show, right?

03:08:07.320 Well, I don't know if that's...

03:08:08.500 Oh, yeah.

03:08:09.400 I'm speaking specifically...

03:08:10.280 Well, I've seen this guy. 0.97

03:08:11.040 He's completely insane. 0.97

03:08:12.300 Sure, sure. 0.91

03:08:12.640 So, what makes you...

03:08:14.140 What do you think happens for him specifically going back to when he was a university in Pacific

03:08:19.300 Northwest or...

03:08:21.320 Do you want me to make some type of generalization about one guy who's now...

03:08:26.520 No, I've named several and I keep naming them, but it's like I just don't...

03:08:29.380 You've named five YouTubers.

03:08:32.140 Nick Christopherson.

03:08:33.940 What's his name?

03:08:34.900 Nick Christakis.

03:08:36.720 I don't know who that is.

03:08:38.080 Well, I...

03:08:39.080 Look, man...

03:08:40.420 You're naming five people to me and attributing it to some mass...

03:08:44.740 Why do you think there is a trope that people are leaving the left?

03:08:47.480 Why did C-SPAN have a segment where people called in saying they're quitting the Democratic

03:08:50.480 Party? 0.61

03:08:50.840 The left has gone nuts.

03:08:51.580 There are cliques.

03:08:57.340 Are you asking me, do I think that there is a...

03:08:59.240 Are you asking me, do I think that there is a movement away...

03:09:04.520 You can just say money.

03:09:05.380 I mean, I was fine with that answer.

03:09:06.700 Well, I'm not even sure I understand.

03:09:09.200 I mean, I can say in those specific instances, but I'm not even sure that that's a phenomenon,

03:09:13.680 to be honest with you.

03:09:14.400 So, you've got...

03:09:15.640 I think this country has moved to the left significantly.

03:09:18.040 I can tell you, like, even at Occupy, there was no ideological sort of cohesion in Occupy.

03:09:25.840 I think relative, like, the idea that Bernie Sanders could be a senator...

03:09:29.860 I interviewed Bernie Sanders in 2004.

03:09:32.240 Maybe it's just because I have a longer, you know, timeline.

03:09:36.180 But I interviewed Bernie Sanders in 2004 when he was a congressman from Vermont.

03:09:40.840 And I remember saying, like, you know, if we could get, you know, 200 Bernie Sanders,

03:09:47.900 that would be amazing.

03:09:48.700 But, like, I was like, this guy's going to be a backbencher his entire career.

03:09:53.140 And the idea that, you know, 12 years later, he nearly wins the Democratic nomination

03:10:00.580 was a huge indication of a move to the left.

03:10:05.020 What do you think it would mean if Trump wins the popular vote?

03:10:07.000 Um, I would be shocked.

03:10:12.180 But it would mean that there are more people, there are more people who voted for Trump.

03:10:19.520 But you don't think it's indicative of any kind of, like, national mandate, like, worldview?

03:10:24.520 I, what would you say Donald Trump's ideology is?

03:10:29.560 Trumpism.

03:10:30.500 Right.

03:10:30.640 There's got to be a new word for it.

03:10:31.880 Right.

03:10:32.160 People like to say fascism or whatever, but these are just archaic terms.

03:10:35.280 I mean, my biggest worry about Donald Trump is the Republican Party.

03:10:39.340 But that's submerged, I think, for most people's voting.

03:10:41.700 Your average person voting, they're just making a difference, a choice between two personalities,

03:10:46.820 largely.

03:10:47.480 So I would say that that is not indicative of an ideological shift as much as it is an

03:10:53.380 aesthetic one.

03:10:54.700 I think there is a RCP has Trump up 0.3.

03:10:58.260 I don't know if it means anything.

03:10:59.220 2020, Biden was up eight.

03:11:00.400 Some say that RCP is no good because they like to use Rasmussen, but I would just say

03:11:05.740 that-

03:11:06.180 We don't need to argue about polls because we're going to know in four days.

03:11:09.040 Right, right, right.

03:11:09.920 It's just, it's trending towards, in all of the data and prediction models, a Trump popular

03:11:16.440 vote.

03:11:16.640 Every RCP thing that you can say, I can come up with a significant amount of data that

03:11:23.600 shows that there's reason to believe that the pollsters are overcorrecting from mistakes

03:11:28.360 that they've made in the past.

03:11:29.740 100%.

03:11:30.080 So I would say, you know-

03:11:32.240 And polymarket is a prediction market, which means Trump might win by 0.1, but they're showing

03:11:36.320 65.

03:11:36.900 It doesn't mean anything.

03:11:37.500 Yes, it's also, you know, there was just a report that there's a ton of like, you know,

03:11:42.240 sort of fake money going in there.

03:11:43.760 It's an offshore thing that is owned by Peter Thiel and-

03:11:48.200 French guy.

03:11:48.580 French guy put in 30 million, I think.

03:11:49.740 Yeah.

03:11:50.120 I mean, I think it's, there's, people feel-

03:11:53.200 Nobody knows.

03:11:53.580 That there is value in creating that sense that maybe it's a foregone conclusion.

03:11:58.660 I personally think that a lot of it is about Trump trying to gin up what you talked about

03:12:03.440 earlier, a January 6th response.

03:12:05.260 If he loses by creating the expectation that he's definitely going to win, and I think

03:12:10.560 it's going to be close, but, you know, I don't think that there's, it's a, in any way

03:12:14.700 close to even being a foregone conclusion about either one of them.

03:12:18.180 Completely agree.

03:12:19.040 I have no idea what's going to happen.

03:12:20.120 Everybody thinks they know as I learned my lesson.

03:12:21.680 Sam, I do appreciate you coming on.

03:12:23.020 This has been fun.

03:12:23.520 We went an extra hour.

03:12:24.600 Thanks for referring to.

03:12:25.420 I hope I get my plane.

03:12:26.500 Sorry, man.

03:12:27.020 I apologize.

03:12:27.780 All right.

03:12:28.380 We'll be back tonight at youtube.com slash timcast.irl if you want to shout anything out.

03:12:32.320 Wear that hat.

03:12:33.000 I will, but that 20th anniversary majority report hat is available at our merchandise

03:12:40.620 store.

03:12:43.380 I wanted to invite you to come on the show tonight, but I know you got to fly out, so.

03:12:46.420 No, I got to fly out.

03:12:47.440 I got to get my kid.

03:12:48.540 I appreciate you coming on, man.

03:12:49.540 Thanks for hanging out.

03:12:50.220 And for everybody else, I hope you had a good time.

03:12:52.680 I hope everybody got their clips in and they're going to argue who was better.

03:12:55.420 All your fans will say you did.

03:12:56.860 All my fans will say I did.

03:12:57.760 And then, you know, whatever.

03:12:59.000 I think some of your fans will say I did too.

03:13:00.580 I don't know.

03:13:03.440 I think this were too partisan.

03:13:05.100 I think people are going to be like, it doesn't matter if Sam has a good idea.

03:13:07.380 He's wrong.

03:13:08.060 You know what I mean?

03:13:08.840 Well, I'll give him some more credit than that.

03:13:10.540 They say you had some good points for sure.

03:13:12.560 We got a lot of moderates.

03:13:13.520 All right, man.

03:13:13.820 Thanks for hanging out.

03:13:14.480 We'll see you guys tonight.

03:13:15.580 Bye-bye.

03:13:30.580 Bye-bye.

The Culture War - Tim Pool - November 01, 2024

Tim Pool VS Sam Seder DEBATE

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