The Culture War - Tim Pool - July 02, 2025


Trump Bill Will END Fantasy Sports And Pro Poker, POISON PILL Could Ban Gambling And BLOCK Bill


Episode Stats

Length

37 minutes

Words per Minute

209.5616

Word Count

7,763

Sentence Count

517

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

Trump's bill to expand the number of casinos in the United States is a hot topic in Washington, D.C. and around the country. Will it pass? Will it hurt the poker pro industry? And what will it mean for the rest of the sports betting industry? All that and much more on this episode of DraftKings and PBR.


Transcript

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00:01:00.000 Yeah, like if I'm in Vegas, do you think I want to see this pass?
00:01:04.980 If I'm like at any level of government, if I'm in any of the casinos,
00:01:08.000 if I'm DraftKings, if I'm FanDuel, if I'm you name it, I'm MGM,
00:01:11.760 I'm like any of these entities, they're not going to want to see this pass
00:01:15.380 because it's going to hurt their bottom line.
00:01:18.220 And luckily, I hope you're right.
00:01:19.400 I hope maybe that's what this is.
00:01:20.840 But you certainly feel the heat when it's your industry on the line.
00:01:24.660 From Newsweek, Trump's big, beautiful bill could kill professional gambling.
00:01:29.260 This is an incorrect headline.
00:01:31.460 It could actually end gambling as we know it.
00:01:35.840 Now, many conservatives are cheering for it.
00:01:38.040 Okay, by all means, I don't care.
00:01:39.760 You're allowed to have that opinion.
00:01:41.100 I think gambling is largely bad as well.
00:01:43.620 I got no problem with people having booze.
00:01:45.780 I have a problem with alcoholism and addiction.
00:01:48.080 And I appreciate treatments for this.
00:01:49.760 I've got no problem with gambling.
00:01:51.300 I have a problem with gambling addiction
00:01:53.040 and people whose lives get destroyed by it.
00:01:56.240 Within a certain within within reason, these things can be fine and okay, but they do get abused.
00:02:02.740 And so when you see the mass expansion of casinos, you have to wonder what's happening to our society.
00:02:07.820 So naturally, if there are regulations or restrictions, I'm not going to cry about it.
00:02:12.420 But I'll tell you what I really think with this.
00:02:14.900 I think that this provision was put into the bill to sabotage it
00:02:19.420 because they can't afford to have even one GOP member of Congress break.
00:02:23.900 And now they have to.
00:02:25.380 What this bill will do, as I've been talking about it yesterday and this morning,
00:02:28.560 and again, we're going to be joined by Doug Polk, who's going to break down for us
00:02:31.160 how this will affect the poker pro industry and what it means for professional gaming.
00:02:35.320 This means that even if you're a casual player, it's not about professional gambling,
00:02:39.360 a casual player.
00:02:41.040 Let's say you go to Vegas just for a weekend and you want to see Katy Perry.
00:02:45.940 Well, you can't.
00:02:46.540 She got fired.
00:02:47.240 But let's say you want to see Penn and Teller.
00:02:49.340 And while you're there at the old Rio, you say,
00:02:51.860 I'll play some blackjack for a little bit with my friends.
00:02:54.540 It's a little bit of gaming.
00:02:55.460 You're not addicted to gambling.
00:02:56.860 You're just having fun with your friends and it's fun to see what the cards come up.
00:02:59.900 And so you set a budget for yourself for your holiday weekend.
00:03:02.780 It's two weeks out of the year.
00:03:03.800 You say, I'm going to bet 500 bucks.
00:03:04.980 I'm going to play 500 bucks.
00:03:05.920 It's all I'm going to do.
00:03:07.260 You know, I'm here to have a good time.
00:03:08.700 You get free drinks while you do it.
00:03:10.280 Hey, what people don't understand is what this bill does.
00:03:14.100 It says you can't, you can only write off 90% of your losses, no matter who you are,
00:03:18.520 pro or otherwise.
00:03:20.260 If you play $500 and you're winning half the time and losing half the time,
00:03:24.580 you might actually just end up leaving even maybe a little bit down.
00:03:28.520 However, if you bet $500 one time and you win, your winnings are $500.
00:03:34.980 If you then bet $500 again and lose, your losses are $500 of which you could only write off 450.
00:03:42.160 Meaning the government considers you to have made $50.
00:03:45.900 That's what this bill will do.
00:03:47.220 It makes literally no sense.
00:03:49.060 And I'm going to say it again.
00:03:50.280 I believe it was intentionally put in the bill because they want it to fail.
00:03:54.960 They put something in that conservatives are going to cheer for, which will cause one Republican to bail.
00:04:01.020 So instead of just sitting here rambling on it for eight hundred times,
00:04:04.120 what I'm going to do is I'm going to pull in poker professional Doug Polk,
00:04:08.660 who's going to talk about how this will affect his industry.
00:04:11.600 I want to ask him about the size of the industry, where we're at with things like the World Series of Poker,
00:04:14.760 of which I'm a big poker player and poker fan as well.
00:04:17.980 But this is a big issue which could sabotage the entirety of Trump's agenda.
00:04:22.400 Hearing what Doug, I say, will be particularly interesting.
00:04:25.940 So we've got Doug Polk here now.
00:04:27.400 Doug, can you hear me?
00:04:28.680 Yeah, I can hear you, Tim.
00:04:29.380 How's it going, man?
00:04:30.240 Hey, man.
00:04:30.780 Welcome.
00:04:31.180 Welcome.
00:04:31.540 Thanks for joining me.
00:04:32.440 So for those that are not familiar, do you want to just briefly introduce yourself?
00:04:36.020 Yeah, my name is Doug Polk.
00:04:37.300 I've been a professional poker player for, man, I don't even know, 10, 15 years.
00:04:41.940 I have a poker YouTube channel called Doug Polk Poker.
00:04:45.120 I do everything poker.
00:04:46.500 I represent a poker room online.
00:04:48.960 I have my own poker room in Texas.
00:04:50.220 Actually, I have two locations.
00:04:51.480 So I'm basically everything poker, Tim.
00:04:53.600 Right on.
00:04:54.120 So Trump's big, beautiful bill is one of the most important pieces of legislation,
00:05:00.160 if not the most, for Trump's agenda.
00:05:01.760 When the Senate debated over the weekend, they put in this, and I've been investigating this,
00:05:08.700 so we'll get into that in a little bit, a provision that says that you can only write
00:05:12.400 off 90% of gambling losses.
00:05:15.380 Now, you are the poker guy.
00:05:18.340 You're one of the big poker guys.
00:05:19.340 You're one of the biggest influencers in the space.
00:05:21.320 So what I want to say first to most people, as I already stressed before we started, again,
00:05:25.460 I think this is a poison pill meant to sabotage Trump's agenda because this is a nuclear
00:05:31.740 bomb on Las Vegas, Atlantic City, any casino in the country, the entirety of the poker industry,
00:05:36.760 fantasy sports.
00:05:37.780 But let's start from the beginning.
00:05:39.520 And you, as a poker professional, explain to me what this bill would do to your businesses,
00:05:45.340 your clubs, your industry.
00:05:46.960 Sure.
00:05:47.420 So taking a step back here and just looking at specifically this car belt, right, because
00:05:52.040 there's a lot of stuff in this bill, all kinds of different things going on.
00:05:55.160 I'm trying not to take a political stance, any of that, just as it pertains to gambling
00:05:58.820 specifically, the way that it's written appears to me not written in the best terminology.
00:06:05.000 It's a little bit tough to decipher.
00:06:06.180 But basically, it seems like you can only write off up to 90% of your losses.
00:06:12.440 And I can give you a couple of really basic examples here.
00:06:14.500 So let's just say you gamble over the course of the year.
00:06:17.700 You win $1 million.
00:06:19.240 You lose $1 million.
00:06:20.680 In any other industry, you break even, right?
00:06:22.660 You're out zero.
00:06:23.500 You made nothing.
00:06:24.340 You owe on nothing.
00:06:25.420 Nothing really happened, right?
00:06:26.440 You net it out.
00:06:27.920 But what this new provision says is that you actually owe on 10% of the winnings because
00:06:33.780 you can only write off 90% of the losses.
00:06:37.120 So basically, you are now taxing either losing gamblers, you're taxing winning gamblers extra
00:06:43.140 on top.
00:06:43.880 It's basically just, you know, yeah, we'll take a little piece of that.
00:06:47.000 Why?
00:06:47.600 Oh, just because it's thrown into this bill at the last second.
00:06:49.540 We're just going to go ahead and do it.
00:06:50.600 So the impact this has on gambling is tremendous.
00:06:53.660 It most impacts people in two specific scenarios.
00:06:56.800 Let's take a look first at like if you're a recreational gambler, maybe you like to play
00:07:00.200 slot machines, you have to go to blackjack, play blackjack, you go to Vegas every now and
00:07:03.500 then.
00:07:04.140 Well, maybe over the course of the year, you know, you lose $20,000, $30,000 gambling,
00:07:07.860 $10,000, $5,000, it doesn't really matter.
00:07:10.400 And then you have that big score.
00:07:11.980 You hit the jackpot for $20,000, whatever it might be.
00:07:15.020 Well, if you now go to do your taxes and you want to deduct all of those losses beforehand,
00:07:20.500 now you actually can't deduct all those and you're now paying taxes on money you lost,
00:07:25.460 which is fundamentally wrong.
00:07:27.620 Additionally, and this is probably more impactful for people kind of in my sector, if you are
00:07:31.660 a professional gambler, well, now it is imperative that your edge is gigantic.
00:07:36.580 And just to break that down a little bit, there are many gambling industries where people just
00:07:39.900 have a fraction of a fraction of an edge.
00:07:41.620 I think of the movie 2021, right, where the MIT blackjack team had to, you know, count
00:07:47.660 the card to get a small edge.
00:07:49.100 Those guys, they had like one, two, 3% edges at most where they're betting these huge dollar
00:07:54.420 amounts.
00:07:55.120 You now need to break this 10% barrier to even be able to gamble profitably.
00:07:59.980 So what that means is for people that are smaller edge professional gamblers, which let's
00:08:04.000 face it, that's most professional gamblers today, you can no longer profitably be taking
00:08:08.340 these bets because you can't clear that 10% barrier.
00:08:11.200 So it impacts recreational gamblers.
00:08:13.540 It impacts professional gamblers.
00:08:15.500 I would imagine, Tim, that there are tens of thousands of professional gamblers in this
00:08:19.160 country that their jobs will be eliminated immediately if this bill goes into effect.
00:08:24.420 Thousands of Texans in my state, tens of thousands of people outside of the state.
00:08:28.180 And personally, like, I don't think this is even an issue that either side, the left or
00:08:32.300 the right is kind of passionate about.
00:08:33.760 It just feels like this got thrown in there.
00:08:35.500 You're alluding to maybe a poison pill.
00:08:37.120 I don't know.
00:08:37.660 But there's no mistake here.
00:08:40.180 If this passes, its impact on gambling will be tremendous.
00:08:44.260 The mayor of Las Vegas came out with a press conference this morning saying the bill was
00:08:47.760 bad because it's going to strip medical care and stuff like that.
00:08:51.280 And I just laughed because we talked about it last night on Timcast IRL.
00:08:55.360 And I said, there's no way Las Vegas will let this bill pass.
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00:09:28.200 And sure enough, first sure enough, first thing in the morning, the mayor of Vegas comes out
00:09:32.000 saying, oh, this bill is really bad.
00:09:33.800 We can't have it.
00:09:35.100 You've got a gaming caucus, a bunch of all the Democrats, of course, are going to vote
00:09:40.440 no because they oppose Trump's agenda.
00:09:42.460 And the Republicans, you'd expect largely to vote yes.
00:09:45.140 I had people tell me any Republican who votes no will never get reelected because Donald
00:09:50.760 Trump is going to primary them and go up against them.
00:09:53.300 However, I'd also I'd also argue that in Louisiana, in New Jersey, in Vegas, any Republican
00:10:00.900 member of Congress who votes for this bill is also not going to get reelected.
00:10:06.000 There's one rep out of Nevada whose largest contributor is the gaming industry.
00:10:10.540 So here's one thing that I want to clarify, and you can help me out with this.
00:10:13.900 When we say things like you get you, you wager a million dollars in one, you lose a million
00:10:20.200 dollars in a year gambling and you make a million dollars.
00:10:23.220 Most people don't understand how those numbers play out.
00:10:27.740 They assume this means that a millionaire walks into a casino and says, I'm going to bet
00:10:32.620 a million dollars just dumping money from his bank account.
00:10:35.480 And then he gets lucky and wins it all back.
00:10:37.540 But that's not actually how it works.
00:10:38.940 So when you as like a poker pro are tracking your winnings and losings, like what is what
00:10:45.860 is an average amount of total money wagered for for a poker pro, say, like at the highest
00:10:51.100 level?
00:10:51.940 Would it be like a million dollars?
00:10:53.420 What would the number be?
00:10:54.820 So that's a really great point you bring up.
00:10:56.640 I'd like to kind of maybe dissect that a little bit for a high stakes player.
00:11:00.180 There are tournaments that are one million dollars.
00:11:02.040 So a very high stakes player might be spending five, 10, 15, 20 million dollars a year just
00:11:06.420 in buy-ins to play all of the highest stakes tournaments in the world.
00:11:09.020 But I just thought to hone in on what you're saying, because it's a great point.
00:11:11.840 I should have addressed it before.
00:11:13.420 Let's just say that you only like to gamble for a few hundred dollars at a time, right?
00:11:16.840 You go down to your local casino, you play in a tournament every day.
00:11:20.000 Well, you know, maybe that buy-in is $200 and maybe you play it a hundred times.
00:11:24.300 That's $20,000 in losses that you have.
00:11:27.960 And then you deduct all of your cashes against that.
00:11:30.580 Maybe one day you had a big win for $8,000.
00:11:33.140 Maybe most of the time you lose.
00:11:34.620 But the point is, it's that same money as long as it's taken over time.
00:11:39.580 It's like the net result of all of the wins and losses.
00:11:42.060 It's gross wins, gross losses.
00:11:44.260 Because you're supposed to be, there's two ways to do your taxes.
00:11:46.940 I'm not a tax attorney, clearly.
00:11:48.900 But just generally, as I understand it, there are two ways to do your taxes.
00:11:52.340 You can either take the standard deduction or you can itemize.
00:11:55.220 And when you have a big gambling win, typically you itemize because you can get the maximum
00:11:58.700 deduction back against your gambling win.
00:12:00.340 That makes sense.
00:12:00.980 We're going to pay the least tax you possibly can within the confines of the law.
00:12:05.000 But this now penalizes that massively for someone who is in that scenario we mentioned earlier,
00:12:10.500 where you're just playing your small stakes gambling game every day.
00:12:13.860 And then finally, you have that one big day.
00:12:15.800 Well, now Uncle Sam's come and knock him for 10%, even though you've lost money.
00:12:20.120 I really feel like it's wrong.
00:12:21.960 So I think the big impact, fantasy sports are going to get hit massively by this, which
00:12:27.680 is massively, I think they were expecting in 2025 fantasy sports to double the amount
00:12:33.100 of, I don't want to say revenue generated, but the market share, the amount of money that
00:12:39.140 passes through is expected to hit something like $25 billion.
00:12:41.020 Tons of guys love, they bet small amounts.
00:12:44.660 They have a fantasy team.
00:12:45.460 They play daily.
00:12:46.580 What ends up happening is, you know, I try explaining this to people that I might say
00:12:52.120 something like, oh, I've, I've gambled $10,000 last year.
00:12:55.400 And they're like, geez, are you nuts?
00:12:57.020 You wasted 10,000.
00:12:58.460 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
00:12:59.540 I went to the casino.
00:13:00.860 I put a hundred bucks on a slot machine and press the button for a $5 bet.
00:13:04.720 And I won $20.
00:13:05.940 I then press it again.
00:13:07.160 And I lost $5.
00:13:08.960 Every time you bet $5 on a slot machine, your losses go up.
00:13:14.240 But so I learned this from Vegas.
00:13:16.100 Was it Vegas?
00:13:16.720 Matt?
00:13:17.020 Is that the guy on YouTube?
00:13:18.140 Yeah.
00:13:18.400 Yeah.
00:13:18.780 The slot machine guy.
00:13:19.660 Yeah.
00:13:19.740 I know you're talking about.
00:13:20.380 Yeah.
00:13:20.700 I love watching it.
00:13:22.040 Okay.
00:13:22.460 But he's, he said in one video, he goes, I'm going to wager $100,000.
00:13:26.880 And I'm thinking, whoa, he's going to put a hundred grand in the machine.
00:13:30.860 And then he's going to bet a hundred.
00:13:32.700 It's not what he did.
00:13:33.520 He put like 10 grand in the machine.
00:13:35.680 And then he, he made bets winning and losing back and forth, like 50, 50 until a total amount
00:13:41.740 wager was a hundred.
00:13:42.740 And then he walked away slightly up, like very little.
00:13:46.620 So there could be for, for poker pros or for, for anybody.
00:13:50.760 I, I, I, I think this ends gambling in its entirety.
00:13:55.000 Let's take an extreme example of that.
00:13:57.080 Right.
00:13:57.360 So, um, typically speaking, the way we log results is by session or by tournament, which
00:14:01.820 is typically the way logs work, but let's just go the most extreme, just to kind of highlight
00:14:05.100 your point.
00:14:05.760 Let's just say that we want to look at poker by hand.
00:14:08.280 Okay.
00:14:08.500 So I've played about like 7 million hands in my career.
00:14:11.640 Um, I've looked at what the results look like when you look at all the wins, all the
00:14:14.640 losses and you just make two columns.
00:14:16.200 You know, I've won, like I could make a headline.
00:14:19.220 Like I've won like $800 million in poker.
00:14:21.700 I've, I've just also lost like 785 million in poker.
00:14:25.860 Right.
00:14:26.200 So if we looked at it like that, like I've done really well, but if we look at it, letter
00:14:30.660 of the law here, and we went by hand, like, Oh, I guess I owe money on, uh, you know, $80
00:14:35.220 million I didn't make.
00:14:36.800 And then all of a sudden I'm paying like 32 million out of pocket.
00:14:39.540 You're, you're toast.
00:14:40.260 Right.
00:14:40.500 So, um, if you start to go really extreme on this and you, you, you take it and you,
00:14:45.640 you fine tune comb, fine tooth, whatever the saying is on that, go through it.
00:14:49.640 You can find a way to get dramatically high tax numbers really quickly.
00:14:53.700 And, and frankly, this is what I think is, is the most silly about this is look, I know
00:14:58.560 what's going on here with this bill.
00:14:59.880 Like there's a lot of stuff going on on both sides, but they're trying to find ways to
00:15:03.720 make money that isn't in a way that impacts people where they don't feel it.
00:15:07.920 And it's like, Oh, gamblers, we'll just take a little bit of the gambler money, but it's
00:15:11.600 short-sighted and it doesn't work the way that they think, because you know what?
00:15:15.020 Like the people, when people make money, they're smart and it's kind of like when you see richer
00:15:19.080 people in countries that are aggressively taxed them or states that aggressively tax them,
00:15:22.560 they, they move to where they don't get aggressively taxed.
00:15:25.420 Um, at some point, when you try and add this 10% tax onto gambling, there are now people who
00:15:30.620 cannot gamble.
00:15:31.360 There are people that will not gamble.
00:15:32.400 There are people that will, um, instead of paying taxes, they're going to go, uh, into,
00:15:36.280 into black markets, trying to avoid having to pay those taxes.
00:15:38.680 They're going to go offshore.
00:15:39.800 They're going to go into different games.
00:15:40.900 They might quit entirely.
00:15:42.500 In my opinion, you might see that we end up losing more than this 10% back anyway, just
00:15:47.880 because of the reduction in gambling.
00:15:49.240 And to the point you made at the start of this conversation, is this a poison pill to
00:15:53.100 try and get gaming involved to kill this bill?
00:15:55.480 I don't know.
00:15:56.020 But yeah, like if I'm, if I'm in Vegas, do you think I want to see this pass?
00:15:59.940 If I'm like at any level of government, if I'm in any of the casinos, if I'm draft Kings,
00:16:04.180 if I'm fan duel, if I'm you name it, I'm MGM, I'm saying like any of these entities,
00:16:09.160 they're not going to want to see this pass because it's going to hurt their bottom line.
00:16:12.820 Uh, and luckily, I hope you're right.
00:16:14.360 I hope maybe that's what this is, but you certainly feel the heat when it's your industry
00:16:18.320 on the line.
00:16:19.560 Yeah.
00:16:19.960 You know, like it's certainly not my industry.
00:16:22.140 And I will also add there, there is a strong presence of conservatives that want gambling
00:16:27.360 regulated or banned outright in general.
00:16:29.980 I think there's a big distinction between social poker and casino gambling.
00:16:34.600 Obviously with cash games, uh, you know, you sit down at a table, maybe you have two
00:16:39.340 to $400, whatever, you know, some places might have higher, uh, buy-ins.
00:16:43.040 Yeah.
00:16:43.400 You're, you're putting money on the line, but it's all lumped together and there's no
00:16:48.680 clear line of when it becomes gambling and when it doesn't.
00:16:51.640 Obviously we know gambling, we see it.
00:16:53.020 If you go say, I think the bears are going to win this game.
00:16:55.040 I'm going to put a hundred bucks on it.
00:16:56.340 You're gambling.
00:16:57.160 But if you're sitting at a social poker game, like Texas Hold'em and you don't actually make
00:17:02.540 any bets and that you get your cards first, you look at your cards, you fold, you've wagered
00:17:06.580 no money and you played a hand.
00:17:08.400 So there's, there's a big difference between that.
00:17:10.720 And this is going to destroy what is a, a sport with tournaments.
00:17:16.500 Here's, here's what I think, uh, on the poison pill thing.
00:17:19.680 I, I, I, it is a bad thing.
00:17:22.180 I think the bill's not going to pass because of it.
00:17:24.600 I think it was put in intentionally because people wouldn't understand it.
00:17:29.460 Members of the Senate are going to look at it and say, well, who cares about gambling
00:17:33.540 losses?
00:17:34.120 What does that even mean?
00:17:35.320 And it's a small paragraph, but it's a poison pill because it's $170 billion a year industry.
00:17:42.040 And there's no way Nevada is going to say, we will lose our tourism industry and allow
00:17:48.840 this to happen.
00:17:49.400 But let me, let me, let me bring this to like regular people.
00:17:52.440 Cause I, like I said, I know a lot, there's a lot of conservatives that like find banned
00:17:55.020 gambling for one.
00:17:56.560 It's massively popular.
00:17:57.880 I'm not a big fan of how expansive gambling has gotten with all the casinos everywhere.
00:18:01.800 But what this bill would do is effectively ban all gambling with the only argument being
00:18:07.300 you should lie in your taxes of which legally no one in law, no one in the Senate is going
00:18:13.760 to argue people should do.
00:18:15.080 But this means that if you go to a Vegas vacation, you're like, Hey, at the end of the year,
00:18:18.980 I got two weeks vacation saved up.
00:18:21.060 Vegas has skiing an hour out.
00:18:22.880 They legit, they have a mountain and go skiing.
00:18:24.120 And you can also go to the, go watch a big show.
00:18:27.340 Maybe you want to see Penn and Teller and you're like, I'm going to set aside 500 bucks
00:18:31.500 on my vacation budget for some blackjack and some craps, just to have fun with the family.
00:18:34.980 I'm not a big gambler.
00:18:35.780 But if that $500, let's say you're paying, you're playing craps and you win one, lose
00:18:40.740 one, win one, lose one after, after a weekend of playing that $500 becomes 5,000 in losses,
00:18:48.040 500 in winnings.
00:18:49.140 And you now owe the government on $500 in income you never made.
00:18:54.640 Yeah, you would own the 10% of that, right?
00:18:57.160 So it's absolutely going to blow some people out of the water.
00:19:00.300 I think for the small time gamblers, it won't be too, too impactful unless you have a big
00:19:04.540 score, unless you hit a big jackpot, unless you win a big tournament.
00:19:07.780 Then all of a sudden, you know, the government's going to come knocking, looking for their 10%
00:19:11.420 on something that you didn't even win money in, which I think is like the real issue.
00:19:15.320 There was, in the past four years, in the previous administration, they hired 87,000 IRS agents.
00:19:22.360 And they also announced that they were going to be tracking any transaction over $600.
00:19:27.640 Now, the big argument was the IRS agents are going to help them track down the billionaires.
00:19:32.280 But this is why I see this as a poison pill.
00:19:36.440 I don't see how Vegas or Atlantic City or anybody, like because Maryland's got a big casino industry
00:19:42.060 now, lets this bill pass.
00:19:43.500 And if the argument is you might only pay a few hundred dollars, well, then you've got
00:19:48.560 the issue of maybe right now this administration is not going to hunt you down over your gambler,
00:19:54.280 gambling's, your winnings.
00:19:55.900 But I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future, maybe in a couple of years,
00:19:59.640 this is how this is how the government does it.
00:20:01.760 After texts are filed, you get a bill in the mail saying the casino did track your winnings
00:20:07.340 and lose and losses.
00:20:08.720 Somehow they knew who you are, whatever they've.
00:20:10.540 And then the IRS agents come and they say, hey, look, we noticed your PayPal account,
00:20:13.880 your bank account had this money come in from a deposit.
00:20:17.040 How do you explain that?
00:20:18.280 And then you're going to get a bill for a couple hundred dollars at the end of the year.
00:20:21.940 So I guess I'm curious, though.
00:20:25.280 In Texas, you guys have a big, like there's a big industry of poker clubs.
00:20:29.600 Right.
00:20:29.880 Like, are there a lot of players that are trying to make a living or are just recreational
00:20:34.780 playing every single day?
00:20:36.300 Obviously, there are other sites to stay in the industry, right?
00:20:38.220 Yeah.
00:20:38.840 So poker has really exploded in Texas over the course of the last 10 years or so.
00:20:42.400 We've seen the rise of a very different model.
00:20:44.660 It's people pay a membership fee, seat rental fees.
00:20:47.320 You're not allowed to rake legally in the state of Texas.
00:20:50.200 And so we've seen these rooms pop up in all of the major states where poker is being played
00:20:53.840 by more and more and more players.
00:20:55.640 And I think that's also one of the reasons why when I see this bill, I realize how many
00:20:59.180 people this will impact.
00:21:00.900 And, you know, you talked about a little bit earlier with with people that may now try and
00:21:04.920 avoid paying their taxes.
00:21:06.000 Like, let's just say let's just let's give an impossible scenario.
00:21:08.200 Right.
00:21:08.440 Let's just say you're someone making sixty thousand dollars a year as a poker professional.
00:21:12.500 This 10 percent thing will put you in the red.
00:21:14.420 So now rather than making money, you're going to lose money every year.
00:21:17.580 What do you do?
00:21:18.520 You say, oh, find a new job.
00:21:19.660 I'll quit your career.
00:21:20.640 Well, OK, it's easy to say as someone talking to someone else.
00:21:23.240 But as that person who might have a family, might have children, might
00:21:25.500 now they have to decide between like following this law or losing their career because someone
00:21:30.820 in D.C. just tacked this on to a bill with no discussion, with no thought, with no
00:21:35.720 conversation, with no debate.
00:21:37.720 You know, the impact this will have on people like and certainly I live in Austin, Austin
00:21:42.040 that I know in Houston and Dallas and all these major Texas cities will be will be giant.
00:21:47.100 But it's also going to apply to, you know, all these places across the entire country.
00:21:50.560 And I want to say this just on on kind of the conservative aspect of poker, because it is
00:21:55.480 tricky the way that this works.
00:21:57.040 In my experience here, we've tried to pass laws in Texas to kind of clarify some things
00:22:02.620 as it pertains to gambling.
00:22:04.160 And generally speaking, conservatives have been kind of split with us on whether they
00:22:07.300 support us or not.
00:22:08.560 It sort of boils down to like which camp you're kind of in.
00:22:11.380 They're sort of the more pro business wing of the Republican Party, which is like maybe
00:22:15.560 something I would more lean towards myself.
00:22:17.580 And then you have more of like the conservative Christian values side.
00:22:21.880 The way I kind of see it is like the less government, maybe this is very taxonomy, I
00:22:26.120 don't know, but the less government we have getting involved in people's lives and telling
00:22:29.320 them what they can and can't do, you know, in terms of their taxes, in terms of their
00:22:33.320 businesses, in terms of like their personal lives, in terms of anything that's not impacting
00:22:37.300 the other people around them.
00:22:38.860 I feel like we should have less government, not more.
00:22:41.140 And when I see, you know, a 900 page bill, Tim, where, you know, this is going, our industry
00:22:46.340 is getting attacked this hard.
00:22:47.340 It makes you wonder how many other industries might just have something thrown in there
00:22:50.860 that might have something that's significant impacting them.
00:22:54.220 This is what's crazy is my team, well-connected with the Hill.
00:22:58.260 Several people have, well, we have one individual particularly who worked there for over a decade.
00:23:03.200 Shout out to Lisa.
00:23:03.860 Lisa, and we've been asking around and looking, trying to figure out how this got added at
00:23:09.120 the last minute, in the 11th hour.
00:23:12.360 We can't figure it out, which apparently I'm being told is kind of odd.
00:23:17.880 Who was the senator that put this, it's just two small paragraphs, but it is a nuclear bomb
00:23:25.880 in the gaming industry.
00:23:26.880 And again, I want to stress, you know, I had the other night, we had a conservative
00:23:31.540 on Amber Duke and she laughed and she's like, good, gambling is bad.
00:23:35.060 And it's, it's okay, fine, fine.
00:23:36.860 Like to the conservatives that don't like gambling, by all means, you're allowed not
00:23:40.480 to criticize it all day, every day.
00:23:42.340 But we need to ask ourselves, how did something so nuclear get added to a bill that's putting
00:23:47.300 it at risk of passing in the first place?
00:23:49.140 Because, you know, I find interesting is you were mentioning, you don't want to get political.
00:23:51.800 So here we are, I'm sitting down, I'm a news guy and politics guy talking with a poker
00:23:55.740 pro, a poker pro being concerned over a spending bill, which let me, let me just be honest,
00:24:02.400 ask you, when was the last time you decided to do a big public, you know, discussion on
00:24:08.040 a spending bill?
00:24:09.120 Is this?
00:24:09.400 Oh, I mean, I mean, never, never.
00:24:11.760 I got, Tim, I got dragged in.
00:24:14.360 It's like, I just woke up one day and it's like, your industry is under attack right now
00:24:18.640 on a bill that's going to get voted on maybe tomorrow, you know?
00:24:21.320 You just get thrown into it.
00:24:23.060 I mean, you were the first person I reached out to.
00:24:24.800 I'm like, okay, who do I know that actually has a voice kind of in this space?
00:24:27.340 And obviously, like, I appreciate you giving me the chance to speak and talking about this
00:24:30.700 because it's so important.
00:24:31.620 But when you get dragged in, you have no choice.
00:24:35.440 And it reminds me a little bit about 15 years ago, people might not realize this, but online
00:24:40.300 poker was banned overnight, where basically all of a sudden, one day people could no longer
00:24:45.380 play online poker.
00:24:46.320 The federal government seized all of the sites.
00:24:48.140 Um, and then poker went overseas and it's not been until very recently with sites like
00:24:53.560 club WPT gold that people can come back and play in America.
00:24:56.380 But what happened was because of the UIGEA and, and basically enforcing through the wire
00:25:02.180 act, as I understand it, they seized all of the money of these online poker players
00:25:06.100 and just overnight people's jobs became illegal.
00:25:08.460 I remember having to leave my home, move away from, from my house in Las Vegas, Nevada to
00:25:14.720 Canada to be able to play online and continue to work.
00:25:17.280 And you want the most messed up thing is I had to send, pay my taxes back because America
00:25:21.560 is the only country where even if you live overseas, you have this in your, so I went
00:25:24.500 to Canada to make money to send my taxes back to America because I love this country.
00:25:30.140 And then you have to just deal with these random moments like that.
00:25:33.660 It's ridiculous.
00:25:34.800 I, this is why I think it's a poison pill that it was added.
00:25:38.540 We don't know who added it.
00:25:40.140 Nobody wants to take credit for it.
00:25:41.920 Uh, I think you were right there.
00:25:43.980 They're trying to figure out ways to offset the tax deductions and make it look like the
00:25:48.220 deficit's going to be smaller and the debt spending is going to be, going to be smaller.
00:25:50.940 And I think they did it in a way that most people wouldn't understand, but now Newsweek's
00:25:55.460 written about it.
00:25:56.360 Uh, NBC has written about it.
00:25:58.140 It's popping up.
00:25:59.920 And so Thomas Massey's a no on the bill.
00:26:03.860 Chip Roy, my understanding is also a no on the bill and he's your rep, but not because,
00:26:09.720 but it's not because of the gambling.
00:26:11.480 I don't think anybody even knows about it.
00:26:13.800 I also think it's probably, there's probably other things in the bill that we haven't noticed
00:26:18.220 that are as bad, but yeah.
00:26:20.940 I can't imagine a Republican rep in any of these big gaming States deciding to vote yes
00:26:28.340 on this, especially as I mentioned with the mayor.
00:26:30.300 So my, you know, ultimately it's when you get Doug Polk doing an interview with Tim Poole
00:26:35.720 on a political issue, I think for conservatives who don't like gambling, just the main takeaway
00:26:41.080 from it is they put this in here to trigger a $170 billion industry into a panic against
00:26:49.040 the bill to stop it.
00:26:50.920 And with a single day, I don't know how you get a debate to pull that provision out considering
00:26:56.660 it's already passed the Senate.
00:26:58.180 It seems like the only possible outcome is that the bill will fail and Trump's agenda
00:27:02.840 will be stopped.
00:27:03.480 That's, that's crazy.
00:27:06.700 And if you figured that out, that is, that is, I got to give a tip of my hat to you, man,
00:27:10.340 because that is some, that's some 40 chess.
00:27:13.120 Absolutely.
00:27:13.620 And it does make sense because if you think about the urgency now from my industry to
00:27:17.940 step in here from all of these big players, like I'm not a big casino guy.
00:27:21.320 Like I'm a small time card room owner here in Texas.
00:27:23.440 I do my own stuff.
00:27:24.300 I play online, all these kinds of things.
00:27:25.460 But, um, you have to imagine the amount of money at play here, the amount of money at
00:27:29.900 stake, the impact of this decision is so tremendous that, I mean, I hope it kills the bill like
00:27:34.860 selfishly for, for, for my industry because of how brutal it is for me, not because any
00:27:38.780 of the other stuff I I've, I've honestly not been following that closely.
00:27:41.860 I follow state level politics more than national, but, um, certainly you rile people enough up
00:27:47.200 that have enough power and enough say, and Lord knows that the lobbying in DC from gaming
00:27:52.520 institutions.
00:27:53.040 There's no, there's no reason for this in the bill.
00:27:54.780 It literally makes no sense.
00:27:56.720 There's, there's been no debate on this.
00:27:58.720 There's been no public debate on it.
00:28:00.640 There's been no cultural issue at play.
00:28:02.540 There's been no large gaming, uh, anti-gaming lobby.
00:28:05.640 This came literally out of nowhere.
00:28:07.960 And it is a, it is a tax increase disguised as some kind of, you know, uh, policy position
00:28:14.980 as opposed to a literal tax increase.
00:28:16.940 And it, it does so in a way that is a nuclear bomb on one of the biggest industries we have in
00:28:22.800 the country.
00:28:23.100 That's been expanding rapidly.
00:28:24.320 The only outcome could be to cause an uproar that nukes it's, it's my mind is blown on this
00:28:29.360 just, just to stress one more time.
00:28:31.100 If this, there was, there were a few provisions in the bill, like the short act and the hearing
00:28:35.460 protection act.
00:28:36.060 This would have made it, uh, much easier to attain a suppressor for your gun and a short
00:28:41.680 barreled rifle, which are restricted on something called the national firearms act.
00:28:44.520 There are lobbies that have been fighting really hard for this.
00:28:47.960 Uh, the, the NRA, the NG, what is it?
00:28:50.160 The national gun owners of America.
00:28:51.940 And so this was culturally popping up in the news, but overnight out of nowhere with no conversation
00:28:59.300 whatsoever, they put in one of the weirdest provisions imaginable that could only disrupt
00:29:05.400 Trump's agenda.
00:29:06.080 And then you just said it, Doug, you said you hope the bill fails for that reason.
00:29:09.500 Cause it's in tack on your industry.
00:29:10.900 I think that was the play.
00:29:12.820 So, so let me just, um, ask you one more, one more question.
00:29:16.440 So people can understand the scale of this.
00:29:17.920 Uh, do you know how many, uh, players so far are expected to be at the world series of poker
00:29:23.140 starting today?
00:29:24.220 Well, the timing is crazy, right?
00:29:27.440 Because right now we have the, uh, the flagship event of, of poker.
00:29:31.700 It's, it's the world series of poker main event.
00:29:33.400 It's the biggest poker tournament that we get every year.
00:29:35.500 It's $10,000 to buy in last year had 10,000 people playing in it.
00:29:38.560 So this is a giant, giant, giant, giant tournament.
00:29:41.460 Um, I don't think it will impact this year because the people going to play don't know if
00:29:47.240 it's going to go through or not yet.
00:29:48.460 Right.
00:29:48.740 So, um, I think where we're, where we will really see this rear its ugly head will be next
00:29:53.700 year at the start where people already know, and the series hasn't begun yet.
00:29:57.840 Um, but yeah, like, like this is the, the biggest event of poker.
00:30:00.800 Maybe it could impact the final day or two.
00:30:02.460 I'm not sure.
00:30:03.380 Um, but yeah, it's going to be tremendous for tournament poker.
00:30:06.100 But, uh, so specifically though, though, I think like two years ago, there was something
00:30:09.300 like close to 11,000 players who each spent 10 grand to enter the main event.
00:30:14.740 And I, I was one of them.
00:30:16.680 Indeed.
00:30:17.280 Uh, I don't actually know the number of, do you, do you know how many people go to, I think
00:30:21.300 it was just over 10,000.
00:30:22.380 I think it was just over 10,000 in total.
00:30:24.780 Like how many people come to Vegas for the world series?
00:30:28.580 I would just, I would guess conservatively about a hundred thousand people, maybe more
00:30:32.740 one 25 come to Vegas over the course of the summer to play.
00:30:35.880 So here's, here's what I think.
00:30:38.460 I think they were trying to find a way to kill Trump's bill.
00:30:41.560 It passed only because of a tiebreaker vote from the vice president.
00:30:44.800 And they did it when one of the biggest gaming events and times of the year is taking place
00:30:51.820 with the world series of poker, specifically in it with a, with a single paragraph that
00:30:56.860 would kill pro poker, aside from all of the gaming industry and fantasy sports, you've
00:31:01.700 got a hundred thousand or so people that have traveled to Vegas for this big event where
00:31:06.540 on the side of, I think it's the horseshoe, right?
00:31:09.060 They have the big WSOP logo and it's a permanent fixture.
00:31:13.340 Sounds to me like it was a strategy.
00:31:15.140 Like they said, how can we cause the biggest problem imaginable for this bill?
00:31:20.060 They put in this one paragraph that gets largely overlooked.
00:31:22.960 People don't understand.
00:31:23.740 Meanwhile, there's a 100,000 players that have just flown to Vegas who are all now hearing
00:31:30.340 about this, who are not political, who I imagine are going to be talking in all of the press
00:31:36.080 around the game with hat, which has millions or tens of millions of viewers.
00:31:39.800 And they're going to say, kill Trump's bill.
00:31:42.120 That does, that does make some sense to me.
00:31:44.540 And I will say like, it's worth noting as well, because I've seen this take, which I think
00:31:48.220 is wrong.
00:31:49.080 People are saying that this is Trump.
00:31:51.460 Trump hates poker.
00:31:52.440 We have no clue who this was.
00:31:54.700 It could have been someone from Trump's team, you know, disseminating it down.
00:31:58.200 It could have been someone from it.
00:31:59.640 We have no idea.
00:32:00.740 We don't know who added it.
00:32:01.700 We don't know why it got added.
00:32:02.820 We don't know any of those things.
00:32:04.160 All we know is it did get added and it got passed in this giant bill.
00:32:07.880 And so that's the political side gamesmanship that I'm totally unfamiliar with.
00:32:12.660 I just know how bad this impact will be.
00:32:15.060 And yeah, maybe this is maybe during one of the biggest gambling event of the year, maybe
00:32:19.500 this will help get the word out to, I don't know, man.
00:32:23.020 Outside my skis now, I don't know.
00:32:24.460 I don't know what to say.
00:32:25.120 That's that's a crazy idea.
00:32:26.620 Well, I'll just I'll just final thought on this.
00:32:29.180 All the poker players want to see Trump's bill dead.
00:32:31.900 Many of them are blaming Trump for it.
00:32:33.720 And if Trump celebrates this victory, there is this is I think what will end up happening
00:32:38.260 is in the midterm elections in contested districts.
00:32:42.080 There are going to be attack ads against Republicans where they say so and so Republican voted against
00:32:47.980 fantasy sports.
00:32:49.140 So and so voted to tax your, you know, your sports gambling, your daily fantasy stuff,
00:32:54.280 because regular middle middle of the road guys, they're playing their fantasy sports on
00:32:59.060 FanDuel or DraftKings or whatever it is they're doing.
00:33:01.200 And they're going to wonder why it is now.
00:33:02.980 It's become an impossible thing to do.
00:33:05.180 But, Doug, I do.
00:33:05.900 I do appreciate you joining and talking about this.
00:33:07.500 Where can people find you?
00:33:08.940 Oh, yeah, you can find me online.
00:33:10.120 Doug Polk poker on YouTube.
00:33:11.520 Do a lot of poker stuff, especially right now.
00:33:13.100 World Series of Poker going on.
00:33:15.020 You know, Lodge Card Club out in Austin or San Antonio, if you're ever in the in the
00:33:18.220 Texas area.
00:33:18.720 And then online at Club WPT Golds, where I play online using code Doug.
00:33:22.520 So appreciate it, Tim.
00:33:23.640 Right on, man.
00:33:24.020 Thanks for joining me.
00:33:24.720 We'll see you next time.
00:33:25.600 Yeah.
00:33:28.320 The famous Doug Polk.
00:33:29.880 He's got a big channel.
00:33:30.740 He's appeared.
00:33:32.020 He's he's one of the one of the biggest pros in the world.
00:33:34.220 I think he's most famous for, you know, online stuff.
00:33:36.440 But I'm going to say it again, because I know, guys, I'm well aware of all the comments
00:33:40.980 saying ban gambling.
00:33:41.960 I don't care.
00:33:42.840 I think that's how they're tricking you.
00:33:44.420 But I could be wrong.
00:33:45.600 Maybe maybe I'm getting all worked up for no reason.
00:33:48.340 And every single Republican is going to fall in line except for Chip Roy and Massey.
00:33:51.720 And this thing passes with the slimmest 218 to, you know, they have to get 218 to pass
00:33:58.560 it, even though there's three vacancies for the Democrat side.
00:34:02.080 It really feels to me like I got to say, I'm bummed to see Doug Polk say, I hope the
00:34:08.480 bill fails because of how important the bill is for Trump's agenda, particularly around
00:34:15.000 immigration.
00:34:15.920 But I get it.
00:34:17.080 I get it, man.
00:34:18.180 I'm a big fan of the World Series of Poker.
00:34:20.180 I'm a big poker player myself.
00:34:21.540 I'm a big fan.
00:34:23.140 I do think there's a component of chance in gambling.
00:34:25.400 Obviously, I think the argument is fine to have.
00:34:27.960 I'm not a big fan of degenerate over gambling and addiction or alcohol or drugs or any of
00:34:32.040 that stuff.
00:34:32.480 But we're talking about 100,000 people who are flying to Vegas right now for the biggest
00:34:37.540 gambling, gaming event, whatever you want to call it, the tournament, the World Series
00:34:40.960 of Poker, where people dream of entering, where the everyman has a chance if they save
00:34:47.000 up that one time to maybe be the dude who wins the main event, because it's like a 16
00:34:53.560 day long grueling fiasco to try and win this thing.
00:34:56.460 It's a marathon where you're playing for like 16 hours a day.
00:35:00.080 It is a brutal feat of math calculations and outwitting your opponents, and people love
00:35:05.060 it.
00:35:05.860 By all means, say you hate gambling, say you want gambling bad.
00:35:09.940 But understand, this is maybe I'm thinking too conspiratorially, but what I'm asking my
00:35:17.760 team, like, who was the senator who put this in the bill?
00:35:20.380 And the answer is, we don't know.
00:35:22.400 And the staffers don't know either.
00:35:24.400 Someone put it at some point.
00:35:26.360 Someone thought this up.
00:35:27.540 And then you get, you know, Doug Polk, he gets hundreds of thousands of views on his
00:35:32.440 videos saying, and he's not a political guy.
00:35:35.440 He's like, I don't know about politics, man.
00:35:36.780 I hope the bill fails.
00:35:37.940 And I'm like, oh, that's a bummer.
00:35:39.760 Because he even mentioned he's like a pro business right leaning guy, but he's not a
00:35:43.460 political guy.
00:35:44.680 Anything that pulls in normies to get them to blame Trump and sabotage his agenda, to
00:35:50.540 me, sounds like a poison pill.
00:35:51.980 So, but I'm going to wrap it up there, my friends, I'm going to, we're going to gear
00:35:56.020 it up to send this right over to Russell Brand.
00:36:00.560 I believe Russell Brand is gearing up to go live.
00:36:02.680 I always usually just pop over to Rumble and grab that URL for you guys.
00:36:06.920 Yes, Russell Brand is currently live.
00:36:08.660 Let's get that raid going.
00:36:10.060 Smash the like button.
00:36:11.540 Share the show with everyone you know, my friends.
00:36:13.720 We'll be back tonight at 8 p.m.
00:36:15.580 for Timcast IRL.
00:36:16.880 You don't want to miss it.
00:36:17.260 You can follow me on X and Instagram at Timcast and shout out to Doug.
00:36:22.340 Thanks for joining me.
00:36:23.340 We'll see you all tonight.
00:36:34.100 Beautiful Anonymous changes each week.
00:36:36.500 It defies genres and expectations.
00:36:39.180 For example, our most recent episode, I talked to a woman who survived a murder attempt by her
00:36:43.840 own son.
00:36:44.280 But just the week before that, we just talked the whole time about Star Trek.
00:36:48.380 We've had other recent episodes about sexting in languages that are not your first language
00:36:53.340 or what it's like to get weight loss surgery.
00:36:56.120 It's unpredictable.
00:36:57.320 It's real.
00:36:58.060 It's honest.
00:36:58.840 It's raw.
00:37:00.000 Get Beautiful Anonymous wherever you listen to podcasts.