The Captive Dreamer is a prominent anti-Trump poster and internet troll who has been around since before the 2016 election. He's been a fixture on the internet for over a decade, and is now one of the most well-known and well-researched internet trolls in the entire world. In this episode, we talk about what it means to be a "protester" in the 21st century, how to deal with Antifa, and why we should treat Antifa as a terrorist organization.
00:03:07.360That's really, really exciting because I think that really opens us up to treating Antifa like Al-Qaeda.
00:03:12.580I know you have a lot of thoughts on how Antifa should be dealt with.
00:03:15.440I mean, I was wondering what your reaction was to that yesterday.
00:03:18.440Well, it's good because the important thing is to go after these networks behind the scene, right?
00:03:23.500I mean, you can't just go after the individual actors.
00:03:25.460It's really about this, you know, the Soros-funded networks that are bailing these people out, that are getting them to go in and, you know, riot and protest.
00:03:33.880And so this opens up a lot more tools to go after.
00:03:37.480Because I don't know, I posted about this recently, but, you know, organizations like the Canadian government, they fund these sort of Antifa-adjacent groups to do op-ed, like research hit pieces on people.
00:03:48.620They did it on me too, but they're funded by the government.
00:03:52.320So this allows, you know, opens a lot more doors to countering that kind of influence, which is notoriously difficult to get to.
00:04:02.340And it's like something when you really see these people get unmasked, you see a particular strain of human being that you don't really encounter in everyday, or maybe we do encounter in everyday life, but we don't see that side of them in everyday life.
00:04:12.880I mean, something that was really exemplifying this was this video that's been circulating over the last day or two of streamer Hassan Piker, obviously a friend of the show.
00:04:26.020This is alleged, so like I don't want to get like, you know, I don't know, sued if you can get sued for this.
00:04:30.260This is alleged, obviously, but it appears that his dog had a shock collar on and he like moved from the designated wholesome camera spot that like looks really good on camera.
00:04:39.100And then he just zapped him like, like Palpatine or Mike Pence or something like it was really wild.
00:04:44.220I mean, does that just kind of exemplify what kind of people were dealing with here or what?
00:04:49.660I mean, I know you have some thoughts.
00:04:51.440Well, it was funny too, is that dog sits there.
00:04:53.680I mean, I've never watched this show, but someone did a time lapse and the dog sits there for like four hours straight, like in the one spot.
00:05:01.600But a lot of these people weaponize this type of empathy or whatever political empathy that they go into, like communism or socialism, whatever.
00:05:10.600But really what it is, is it's like a way for them to justify their sort of like resentment and their envy and hatred and turn it into something that makes it look less obviously negative.
00:05:21.460Like, so, so instead of saying, well, I hate the world and I want to destroy everything, you can kind of couch it or you can kind of hide that behind a mask of, of being good person, you know, being a hecking good person.
00:05:31.920That's what I always hear from these guys.
00:05:33.240And, you know, the same person saying be a good person is openly celebrating political assassinations and, and making memes mocking Charlie Kirk.
00:06:07.360But he makes this point of like, look, if you really want to exterminate leftism, you can't just ratchet it back to like an earlier form of liberalism and not expect like the outcome to be leftism.
00:06:16.120Cause that's just going to be the case every single time.
00:06:20.980And that's what I kind of see with what we're seeing now with, I think this strain of thinking, this ideology has, or it has existed for well over 50, 60 years.
00:06:29.280And it's just now they're so emboldened probably because they've accumulated so much institutional power that they feel like they're just allowed to say things like that.
00:06:37.960And I think people are finally seeing like, oh, this has been there the whole time.
00:06:40.900It's just now they're finally saying it out loud.
00:06:44.620It's like the stuff with the great replacement theory that they say, well, it's not happening.
00:06:49.060But then when you kind of show that it is happening, well, they say, well, it's actually good that it's happening.
00:06:52.500And so, yeah, we have reached a period where there's been so little pushback for so long and, you know, every major social media platform has propped these people up, right?
00:07:00.880I mean, Twitch has basically stuck by Hassan Piker interviewing terrorists, doing all kinds of stuff.
00:07:06.700Everyone, you know, the left has been in control of Twitter, of all these things for so long.
00:07:11.700And now it's just, they're realizing, okay, well, you know, are we the bad guys?
00:07:16.620It's almost like they're having this moment where we've been saying this terrible stuff for so long and got in the way with it.
00:07:20.620And now there's this really big cultural pushback after, especially after the Charlie Kirk assassination that people are realizing, okay, these are actually just like really bad people.
00:07:31.540Well, something that's been really interesting to me in the aftermath of the Charlie Kirk assassination is actually the reaction was almost more shocking to me because I kind of expected leftists to react that way, if I'm being honest.
00:07:44.140I mean, I know a lot of people were shocked because they knew some of these people personally.
00:07:47.380So that's obviously, you know, my heart goes out for those people because you think you know someone, that sort of thing.
00:07:52.220But I was a little bit more surprised at the reaction for people on the right.
00:07:56.380They seem to be so quick to let, like, the left off the hook for this.
00:08:00.440Like, we have this opportunity to really finally break this that's been tormenting us for decades.
00:08:05.500And there was this tendency to immediately absolve the left.
00:08:09.680And I don't know if it was intentional.
00:08:10.760I don't know if they're saying, I'm going to sit here and I'm going to make sure, like, the leftists don't get punished.
00:08:13.700But they immediately, like, looked for alternative explanations.
00:08:16.560Like, you know, maybe Israel did this.
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00:08:58.020COVID was very good in terms of shattering the trust in the expert class, right?
00:09:03.700They kind of lost all of their credibility for many reasons.
00:09:07.340And what that did is that opened the door to sort of democratizing explanations for things, which led to conspiracies and all these things.
00:09:16.060And not, you know, not all conspiracies are wrong, but there's this tendency almost to want to go towards the most complicated possible, most convoluted explanation possible.
00:09:26.780And whether or not they intentionally were trying to sort of take away the blame from the left, that's the outcome or the effect of trying to say, well, no, it wasn't Tyler Robinson.
00:09:36.800No, he didn't, you know, it wasn't his transgender roommate, all this stuff.
00:09:40.620So whether that's the intent or not, that's the outcome and that's the effect of it is to say, well, and if you go into Blue Sky, actually, you'll find a lot of people on Blue Sky leftists who are saying the same type of thing, right?
00:09:52.140Like that's Israel or the Zionists or it was, you know, this corrupt FBI hit job.
00:09:57.440And because they know that they can get away with, you know, deflecting the blame.
00:10:03.400I mean, Israel stuff seems especially kind of interesting to me because the attack vector that people on the right are using, there's like a lot of fair criticisms of Israel.
00:10:13.540I mean, I'm in no means an Israel shill.
00:10:22.880And I totally agree is I just really want what Israel has.
00:10:25.580But for Americans, like if we could just create an American version of Israel, I'd be okay with that.
00:10:31.320But some of the like attack vectors people on the right are using are like leftist arguments.
00:10:36.060Like they're talking about international law or they're like saying, well, you know, they're like appealing to like human rights violations and these sorts of things.
00:10:45.280But that's just not really, that's not a vector of attack that's threatening to the liberal world order in any meaningful way.
00:10:51.300Yeah, that's an issue actually I talked about at length right after the October 7th attacks.
00:10:57.040And it gained me a lot of a lot of enemies on the Internet right.
00:11:00.480But I was basically trying to say like, you know, you can criticize Israel without adopting the frame of the left, right?
00:11:05.780Without adopting this sort of language that's going to get you.
00:11:08.960It's going to get you allies in terms of like the third world or the Muslim world.
00:11:13.400But those are the same people who will then not give you like if you talk about crime or immigration, they're not going to be on board with you on that stuff at all.
00:11:20.880And so that's that's kind of what I was warning people is that you can build a coalition with these people.
00:11:24.300But if you're an American patriot or European patriot, whatever, it's going to backfire spectacularly when it comes time to ask these people to give you, you know, some support on your issues of again of the border of immigration of these things.
00:11:38.500And we've seen now that that's kind of exactly what's happened, where they've been sort of cannibalized by the audience that they've cultivated.
00:11:46.280Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you're seeing that even with Americans.
00:11:50.160I mean, obviously, we'll talk about it more in a little bit, like with the third world.
00:11:53.300But even with Americans, we had this really sort of delicate coalition going into the election of like the brocasters, I think is what the media is kind of termed, like, you know, Joe Rogan, Theo Vaughn, Tim Dillon.
00:12:13.720And they were kind of like maybe they're a little bit on legal immigration.
00:12:16.400They maybe hadn't thought about it that much.
00:12:18.000And then so as soon as these videos start coming out of, you know, the more physical interactions ISIS having to have with the what the illegals are trying to deport, detain, they flake immediately and they freak out.
00:12:30.260And they're like, this is surely there's another way to do this.
00:12:33.200The line I always hear is, do we really have to do the high school graduations?
00:12:36.020And I'm sitting here like, yeah, we kind of do.
00:12:38.600I mean, what did you think mass deportation looked like?
00:12:43.660Well, what's interesting is that, you know, that's sort of televised and public and commented on.
00:12:48.360But what's not is, you know, I didn't I don't really remember Rogan and maybe I'm wrong or Theo Vaughn talking about sort of the mass warming of the border under Biden.
00:12:56.440Right. The people like lining up at the border, getting fed by these NGOs, getting brought in, committing crime.
00:13:02.980You know, it's very easy to sort of pinpoint one specific event of like a nice guy who's tackled somebody.
00:13:09.600But if you're if you're going to do that, then I better have been seeing you for the past four years complaining about the millions of people that flooded the southern border, which which I don't think they have.
00:13:19.300And so it seems a little a little sort of cowardly to me.
00:13:23.360I understand, you know, sort of the reticence that some of these people have, and especially like someone like Theo Vaughn.
00:13:28.060He's like, man, he's like, I don't want to get shot.
00:13:30.220But that kind of shows you that there's this this leftist that he's afraid of the left.
00:13:33.900Right. There's this heckler's heckler's veto almost where he's he's willing to kind of make little snide jokes about, oh, Israel, don't take me out or the FBI, don't take me out.
00:13:42.040But he's really afraid of, you know, of some sort of crazed leftist sass.
00:13:47.460And that's at the end of the day, that's what he's afraid of.
00:13:49.140So until that gets kind of under control, I think you're going to see people still try and have one foot in both camps and say, well, you know, I supported this, but I don't want the excesses, which which aren't really excesses.
00:14:00.140They're framed in a way that's tried to make them look bad.
00:14:02.300Right. That's all it is. So that's a great point, actually, that, yeah, he makes these like, don't kill me, don't kill me.
00:14:07.280But he would never say like, hey, Antifa, don't kill me, because it's like they would actually see that as like an invitation or something.
00:14:15.560So Tim caught a lot of flack for this position he took on the show like a week or two ago where he was kind of criticizing the ICE agent's propensity to mask.
00:14:25.040They often mask to protect their identities.
00:14:28.700I think it was actually a really good point that a lot of people missed because they were very upset with this point.
00:14:32.300With this take, rather, he said part of it is that it's so unacceptable that we're nine months into a Trump administration and we haven't sufficiently broken the left enough where Antifa officers still fear like they should be able to operate with total impunity.
00:14:45.280And you kind of alluded to it with Theo Vaughn, like where he's afraid to kind of make jokes in that certain sector is it really does show how entrenched this leftist power is and how everyone knows that they're willing to go there.
00:14:58.740They're willing to use political violence if they don't like what you have to say.
00:15:02.180Well, the mask thing, too, like if you're familiar at all with like cartel country or stuff from Mexico, I mean, the federal police in Mexico will, you know, the real heavy hitters will wear masks.
00:15:12.900And specifically it's for that reason, right, because they know the cartels are going to take out their family or whatever.
00:15:17.960So it does show, again, that the threat is real and we need to be, you know, nine months to me.
00:15:26.200I mean, I'm a survivor of the Trump one term where we had all the expectations in the world and everything kind of conspired against it.
00:15:33.940So I'm a little more willing to to be patient just going forward.
00:15:38.540But it is obviously something that needs to be dealt with long term going forward, for sure.
00:15:43.020So I would I would consider you you'll deny this because you're a humble man, but I would consider you like one of the more tastemakers, I would say, on kind of the right wing.
00:15:51.320Like, I think a lot of people do, you know, look to your takes as kind of guidance on it's like what's a style, a style chart.
00:15:58.660Is that what the AP sends out to the press?
00:16:01.420But you've emphasized the importance of like, OK, it takes a while to reorient a lot of these institutions towards the right because they've obviously been used to what they've been weaponized against the right for so long.
00:16:43.800And so personnel is what you want to be replacing.
00:16:47.060And for so, you know, Biden basically gutted these institutions and replaced all of all the patriots, you know, whether it was in the military or whether it was in the FBI or whatever, and basically filled it with these leftist agitators, Democrat Party, you know, apparatchiks, whatever.
00:17:02.200And so, you know, you can you can turn things around.
00:17:05.900But if you have people below you who are not willing to carry out the policy or will sabotage you.
00:17:11.540And I think I'll segue that back into the Trump one campaign or Trump one term, because that was really what happened there.
00:17:17.340I mean, you had Trump won, but the GOP was still completely hostile to him.
00:17:21.920Right. They were still stuck in this sort of Mike Pence, Paul Ryan, this old school, you know, cut taxes and big business like it was it was very boring.
00:17:30.920It was very hard to get excited about politics.
00:17:32.640I think that's why when Trump came down, you know, a lot of us were like, oh, wow, finally, you know, finally, we're going to get somewhere here.
00:17:39.540And then what happened was his own party sort of stifled him.
00:17:44.080The Democrats, you know, put him under investigation the entire time.
00:17:47.680And so it was it was a disappointment, not because they weren't trying to do the right things, but I don't think they were prepared for the level of of how entrenched the interests opposing them were.
00:17:59.240And I think now with the second term, it does seem like they're, you know, especially people like Stephen Miller, they're much more aware of of getting the right people in the right places so that they can they can do what they want.
00:18:11.220And, yeah, I mean, again, I'm willing I'm much more willing to be patient.
00:18:44.720Is it that animates the left and these these hard left agitators?
00:18:48.880There's something specifically out of all the agencies that pose a threat to their life, their livelihood rather not their life, but their their their lifestyle for one HHS taking their seed oils and soy away would have massive implications on them.
00:19:00.200But you never really see much vitriol towards HHS beyond like kind of like little snippy comments.
00:19:04.680But something about ice specifically really motivates them to go all out and like literally risk their lives.
00:19:14.780That's a million dollar question, honestly, because they're not even that vitriolic towards the police or even even customs and border patrol.
00:19:21.560Remember, there was that famous picture of the the guy lassoing the migrants on a horse.
00:20:52.540I don't want to get into like the anthropology of their like politics or that sort of thing.
00:20:56.240Richie actually did a great job breaking it down.
00:20:57.700But there is something kind of ironic about how Portland being the whitest city, it's almost like it's the hub or the haven for anti-white or self-hatred, because that ultimately seems to be what drives a lot of this vitriol against ICE is their sort of slavish devotion to mass immigration.
00:21:16.380They kind of want to get replaced in their own country.