The Culture War - Tim Pool - Why Men Are LEAVING The Left, Society's ATTACK On Masculinity w⧸ Kyla Turner & Nacho

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00:00:15.920 Young men are leaving the left. We've seen numerous reports. Actually, I talked about it

00:00:20.280 quite a bit this morning. There are two Gen Z's, Vox claims, because young men are shifting rightward.

00:00:25.860 Older Gen Z's still lean a little bit more progressive, but young men are largely moving

00:00:29.500 to Donald Trump, moving to the right. They're happy to do so. You're also seeing the rise of

00:00:33.340 prominent personalities like Andrew Tate, despite the fact that many people are critical of his

00:00:37.440 career and how he made his money. Young men still seem to like the guy. So what is the phenomenon

00:00:42.400 driving people, younger men particularly, away from the left and into the hands of conservatives?

00:00:48.960 We're going to have that debate. So we got a couple of guests joining us tonight to have that

00:00:52.620 joining. It's not tonight. It's the morning. Joining us this morning to talk about it.

00:00:56.040 Ma'am, would you like to introduce yourself? Yeah. My name is Kyla. You can find me everywhere

00:01:00.120 at Not So Eridite. I do streaming and stuff. I typically talk about gender, so it's a good

00:01:04.920 topic for me. Oh, gender. And kind of like sociocultural commentary.

00:01:08.780 All right. Sir, who are you? I'm an American Nacho. I'm a Christian, conservative, husband,

00:01:13.840 father. I work full-time supporting my beautiful stay-at-home wife in our two recent editions.

00:01:19.060 And I stream video games and politics as more of like a hobby. You could say like a mover and

00:01:23.720 shaker in some of the political communities potential to like Andrew Wilson or something

00:01:27.560 like that. Right on. To start, I think we're in agreement that young men are moving to the

00:01:31.900 right. I think if you're denying that, you're just denying data. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Vox,

00:01:36.160 Washington Post, like everybody's bringing it up. I think the question is why, but you agree young

00:01:40.200 men are going rightward. So I guess is there a disagreement on why it's happening or do we

00:01:46.300 actually agree why it's happening? What's your view on why young men are basically moving over?

00:01:51.020 I think as a liberal, I'll be very clear. I am liberal. And I spent the last several months being

00:01:56.900 asked this question by liberals and Democrats. I think the answer is that the left kind of hates

00:02:02.420 and fears masculinity broadly. I think it doesn't like it. And I think you can see that in the fact,

00:02:08.340 I don't know if you know this, the APA, it's American Psychiatric Association. This year,

00:02:12.620 they came up with rules and guides about how to treat men in therapy differently than women and like

00:02:18.320 tricks and stuff that they need to be aware of. Right. And it's like, shouldn't be like 2025 where

00:02:22.940 we're coming out with this stuff. Um, I think the left has just broadly neglected the male issue

00:02:27.420 because it's been, uh, on what's the word, not politically correct to talk about. Indeed.

00:02:33.960 Yeah. And what say you, sir? Would you agree with that? Um, some, to some degree. Yeah. I think men

00:02:38.540 are moving to the right because men are more rational than women, you know? Um, young men are shifting

00:02:44.920 away because left-wing ideologies, um, are, are kind of disconnected. They feel kind of disconnected

00:02:51.040 from reality. Um, you know, we're living in a, in a society where, you know, we're having economic

00:02:57.160 stresses, we're having, you know, geopolitical stresses and men are seeking, you know, pragmatic

00:03:02.380 solutions to like economic and social changes. Um, valuing like free expression, uh, and preferring

00:03:08.460 like empowerment over this like collective guilt, um, that seems to be like following us around like a

00:03:14.060 cloud. So. Indeed. I, I, what, what would you say to that before I jump in? He said. Men are more

00:03:19.860 rational than women. Yeah. And liberal ideologies are, how did you describe it? Not rational or not?

00:03:24.100 Um, yeah. They seem, it seems like, it seems like young men are experiencing sort of like a disconnect

00:03:29.600 from like left-wing political narratives. Like it's, it's not like they don't make sense to, especially

00:03:35.500 young men and even older men like myself, like starting a family. Um, I, I'm looking at what world my

00:03:43.020 young men are going to have to grow up in. What, what world my children are going to have

00:03:46.760 to grow up in. Yeah. When I look at young men and young women, especially, I think most

00:03:52.160 people are not very rational. I don't really give rational points to most people or most

00:03:55.560 voters in general. I think, uh, women are, uh, like influenced a lot, whether they like it

00:04:01.800 or not by things like hormones, right? I think women's like hormonal fluctuation is daily.

00:04:05.880 Men's are, are, are like monthly, but at the same time, you know, you'll point to like women

00:04:11.400 like crying maybe over something that they shouldn't cry about or being, um, soft and

00:04:16.380 maybe enabling in an area that they shouldn't be. But then you'll see men like punching holes

00:04:20.720 in walls and like doing crime. And so this argument that like men are just more rational

00:04:25.360 than women. It's like, well, no, like different emotional systems and different arguments appeal

00:04:30.240 to each of these groups because each of these groups are fundamentally self-interested. And

00:04:34.100 I think what's failed on the left is to make any appeal to anything for young men. The

00:04:39.140 left hasn't offered young men anything. There's nothing that would be appealing to a young man

00:04:42.720 when you look at left policy, but there's lots of things that are appealing to young women.

00:04:46.440 And so I think if Democrats want to talk to young men, they have to talk to young men,

00:04:51.040 but I don't, I don't think it falls as simply down to like rational versus irrational. I think

00:04:54.940 that's like a flattening of the nuance. I think that modern liberal orthodoxy is antithetical

00:05:01.140 to masculinity and that the, uh, the men who remain on the liberal side are largely what we call,

00:05:09.600 and I quote, this is a biological term, sneaky fuckers. Are y'all familiar with that term?

00:05:14.620 Yep.

00:05:15.420 Are you familiar with sneaky fucker?

00:05:17.140 Uh, laid out for me.

00:05:18.980 So in biology, there are some species, there's an example of one fish where there are two male,

00:05:23.860 there's two different types of males, large and small. The large male earns favor with the females

00:05:29.460 by being strong and powerful. Oh yeah.

00:05:31.540 The sneaky fucker goes in the middle of the night and inseminates the eggs and then, and flees.

00:05:35.480 Yeah.

00:05:35.980 And so, uh, largely I see what you're saying and my view is obviously not absolute. There's a lot

00:05:43.860 of men who actually are into leftist liberal ideology. I'm just saying it's, I think it's a

00:05:47.380 generality that an ideology that, uh, the orthodoxy focuses on oppressors who has the power is going

00:05:55.780 to be antithetical to a man who is seeking to empower himself and become strong. And then what

00:06:00.620 you end up with is a, uh, among millennials, the data in 2018 was that 70% of millennial women were,

00:06:07.240 uh, were Democrat, 30% were conservative, and 55% of millennial men were conservative and 45%

00:06:14.220 were Democrat. The data probably changed, but I think you get a large portion of weaker, uh, males who

00:06:21.720 find their path towards, uh, I guess a sexual marketplace success in being the male feminist

00:06:28.660 pandering to women, telling them that they want to hear so that they can earn favor. Well, as the

00:06:32.600 other guys are defiant dude bros, chest bumping, and that's an exaggeration, but that's, you know,

00:06:36.800 you get the idea. Yeah. I think there's something, so like the sneaky fucker is very fun and evil

00:06:42.040 human psych. There's not like a ton of evidence for this. It's like a mating strategy. Um, it's more

00:06:46.360 like birds that do this, but this idea that I think is actually more true that I think is more

00:06:52.380 grounded on reality that we're talking about is this idea that essentially for you to perform well

00:06:57.460 as a man in the liberal space, there has to be a certain level of like castigation you have to do

00:07:03.520 toward masculinity and like a promotion of femininity. That's almost exclusively performative,

00:07:09.020 right? Especially because as a woman, I wouldn't say liberals are like inherently better at like

00:07:12.780 certain forms of sexism, right? Like there's a lot of times where I feel like just my existence,

00:07:16.780 uh, I just don't get respected as much like at a default, even in liberal spaces. And so what I

00:07:22.820 think happens is there's a lot of performativity. And in the case of on the left, we've had this issue

00:07:28.300 where if you want to be left coded and by left coded, I mean perform, appear and feel left. You've got

00:07:35.040 the language, usually some aesthetic, right? I appear more left than I appear right. I've got like a

00:07:39.860 choker on and whatnot. In all these ways, if you want to perform left, you have to do some level

00:07:44.540 of service to femininity. And if you're going to talk about masculinity, you have to caveat and

00:07:51.660 couch it within these other things. Um, that's how I kind of view it, which if you're a young man,

00:07:56.340 you're just like, what the fuck? Like, where am I? Maybe, maybe that's a good way to put it. Uh,

00:08:02.160 it's just easier to be on the right. You don't really have to do a whole lot. Yeah. And that's,

00:08:08.020 you could sit around eating chicken wings. As long as you're talking about football and you

00:08:10.580 don't say weird leftist things, the right's going to be okay with you.

00:08:14.660 Yeah. That's, that's one thing that I was wanting to point out too, is that I think that,

00:08:18.140 you know, they're, they're moving right because at least the right is listening or at the very least,

00:08:22.540 they're just like cool with it. You know what I mean? Like you're saying, you can just sit on the

00:08:25.740 couch and hang out with the, with the bros a little bit to a degree when you're disagreeing with

00:08:30.440 right wingers, they're not going to destroy your lives because you have a disagreement. So you're both

00:08:35.980 maybe on the right, but you know, I'm, I'm probably a little more farther right, or you're a little

00:08:39.740 closer to the center. You're not going to be cast, you know, ostracized for this. Um, on the left,

00:08:45.780 you have like a large shift going extreme left. And these people are like tearing down even their

00:08:51.700 own. I think that the Democrat party and left currently is actually kind of fighting with

00:08:56.700 itself a lot too. Well, I, I, I, I define wokeness as cult-like adherence to liberal social

00:09:03.140 orthodoxy. And the reason for it is you get a lot of people on the right and they say that

00:09:07.060 wokeness is critical race theory, critical gender theory, Marxist, well, that's not, not correct.

00:09:12.480 While that is a large component of liberal orthodoxy, support for Ukraine does not fall

00:09:16.880 into that. People try to shoehorn it in by saying, oh, but Ukraine is the weaker being oppressed by the

00:09:22.360 Russians. And I'm like, that doesn't explain NATO expansionism. NATO expansionism is not the,

00:09:26.140 Russia is small compared to NATO. NATO is encroaching on Russian space. There's a big debate over that.

00:09:30.280 So the oppressor oppresses it make sense there. Islam being the second biggest religion in the

00:09:34.540 world and a strong theocratic fundamentalist militaristic religion also doesn't quite make

00:09:39.200 sense. It is the adherence to the modern liberal orthodoxy, which is relatively amorphous.

00:09:44.760 And so I pulled up just this real quick example, the four lights from Star Trek. Are you guys

00:09:49.620 familiar with the four lights? I'm not. Star Trek, the next generation, Captain Picard. Oh,

00:09:55.060 everybody's not a Trekkie is groaning. Don't care. Captain Picard is, is captured by an enemy

00:09:59.500 faction. He's brought into a torture room where the enemy commander has four lights above him.

00:10:04.620 And he says, how many lights do you see? And Picard says four. And then he gets electrocuted

00:10:09.080 and he says, you are incorrect. There are five lights. And now how many lights do you see?

00:10:13.860 And Picard says four. It's electrocuted again. And the whole episode basically finally ends

00:10:19.320 with him screaming in the face of the commander. There are four lights, which becomes a cultural

00:10:25.160 meme, especially from among millennials and those who watch the next generation group with it.

00:10:28.700 The captain refused to bow to a false reality. He was being forced to through pain of punishment.

00:10:33.800 That's how I view a lot of younger guys and a lot of people on the right, a lot of post liberals,

00:10:37.920 former liberals, whatever. The left is demanding you adhere to things that are, that are completely

00:10:43.840 false. Otherwise they will cause you pain. They will take your job. You will be kicked out of social

00:10:49.140 circles. The right has no such precepts. To be fair, that is a bit as absolute. The right

00:10:53.280 certainly has some, but it is. Now, I would also put a timeline on this. I think it's really

00:10:58.360 important to look at a timeline. So I was actually watching your conversation with Bill Maher.

00:11:03.560 Bill Maher. How do you pronounce his last name? Maher, I guess. Maher. Maher? Send it, yeah.

00:11:08.180 And he pointed out to you something that I think is really important, where he talked about like,

00:11:11.320 well, yeah, the left and the right, when we're talking about it from like 2016 to now, I think I agree

00:11:16.220 broadly with your narrative. I might not use like all the same language. Like I don't call it cult,

00:11:19.960 like I call it religious. I think it's like fundamentally religious in like performance,

00:11:25.020 which not all religions are cults, right? Because like the left isn't making you like abandon your

00:11:29.040 family necessarily. They're making you fight with your family. Well, I got to pause you there.

00:11:32.540 They're not making you abandon your family. Prominent left personalities have said,

00:11:35.560 cut off your family. Even on MSNBC, they've said, don't show up to Thanksgiving. Was it Jen Psaki who was

00:11:41.480 like, don't go to Thanksgiving with your family if they support Trump or something? Maybe it wasn't her,

00:11:44.780 but this is MSNBC. Sure. I imagine that there are. We saw a wave of this after 2016 when he got

00:11:50.660 elected the first time, which admittedly I wasn't paying as much attention then. And honestly,

00:11:54.420 I followed a little bit more of your kind of line. I actually followed you a lot more in like 2018

00:11:59.500 because I was also like coming from the left around 2016, getting into politics when I started

00:12:04.360 a family and stuff. You saw a wave of people getting, you know, all this pushback saying not to just

00:12:10.960 what you're saying, not to talk to your family. All these, all these videos, you know. And then now

00:12:14.840 again, you're seeing the same thing on TikTok, waves of them after the election. I stopped talking

00:12:18.900 to my family because they voted for X. Sure, but we don't use like, we have to be really cautious,

00:12:22.180 right? So as somebody who's on the left, right? Who is friends with lots of people on the left,

00:12:26.020 grew up fundamentalist right, by the way. I don't cut off anyone in my life. I have lots of

00:12:32.640 conservative family. I would never cut them off. I'm very close to my neighbor who is a

00:12:36.120 dogged libertarian. Yeah, but the exception doesn't make the rule. You know, we're talking

00:12:39.520 in general. This is my argument, right? There are loud squeaky wheels that we need to do on the left

00:12:45.420 a better job of policing. It is better if the left goes, hold on, that's crazy. Okay, we don't agree

00:12:50.660 with this. The left's problem is that we don't kick out our extreme left, not that the extreme left

00:12:55.820 represents the broad group. The problem with the left, especially my side, is that we're kind of

00:13:00.740 cowardly and soft and status quo. And so we don't speak up to our extreme fringe right, left.

00:13:05.940 Which is why, like, the far left progressives have so much more ability to speak, despite the fact

00:13:12.620 that their, like, actual, like, functional policies are only, like, pretty weakly represented within the

00:13:18.440 democratic polity. The Biden-Obama party is the strong party within the Democrat party.

00:13:23.240 So how do you define what left means? What does it mean to be on the left?

00:13:26.720 Uh, I mean, it's, like, spectrumal, right? But, like, essentially, you're probably going to be

00:13:30.820 pro-welfare state. You're probably going to be pro, like, trans, gay, LGBTQ. So you're going to be,

00:13:35.560 like, economically and socially left, by and large.

00:13:38.020 So, but, but you use a definite, you use left in the definition. So pro, pro-trans?

00:13:44.240 Sure. So, yeah. When I say, when I, I use left in the definition, because I think we know, but,

00:13:47.760 like, when I say socially left, it's usually, like, you're chill with gay people getting married.

00:13:51.960 You don't really care if trans people exist.

00:13:53.580 Um, what does that mean? You're, you don't care if trans people exist?

00:13:56.600 Like, you're probably going to support them transitioning, things like that.

00:14:01.220 Okay.

00:14:01.780 Yeah. Um, economic, uh, left would be, uh, welfare state. You're going to be pro-social safety net,

00:14:08.200 and you're probably going to be pro-regulation of the market, right? These are typically what we

00:14:11.800 view as left policies.

00:14:13.140 What, what about, I mean, there, there are people on the right that are trans themselves,

00:14:17.280 are pro-adults being allowed to trans and do whatever they want. They're pro-welfare state,

00:14:23.460 uh, they're moderate on abortion, but they're still called right.

00:14:27.180 Uh, well, there's kind of two problems. Uh, one is that politics has devolved, I mean,

00:14:32.140 I get called right by a lot of, like, further left people. I'm obviously not right. Um, so if you

00:14:37.200 want to have, the issue is, I can talk to you about the far left, and I can talk to you about the

00:14:41.800 liberals and, like, the space that I'm a part of. And so whichever one you want me to, like, speak to,

00:14:46.360 I can. In my group, I would say, I'm not sure. You're probably somewhere politically on the

00:14:51.200 spectrum on, like, moderate, maybe shifting right. I don't know, like, all of your policies

00:14:55.120 necessarily, but you'd probably be somewhere in the moderate, like, center space. But performatively,

00:15:00.400 they're going to feel like you're demonstrably right-ling, particularly if your audience is

00:15:04.320 demonstrably right-ling. Um, the way that I, the far left would view that is that you're far right,

00:15:11.580 because they don't even think the Democrat Party is truly left, right? So.

00:15:15.820 So here's, here's, let's, let's start here. Like, we're talking about young men wanting to adhere

00:15:21.700 to reality. They're, they're tired of being told there are, there are five lights when there are

00:15:24.920 four. And the trans issue is a really great example. Uh, it, it relates to the broader

00:15:29.660 political correctness, but you, you can't get your average left liberal, I mean, both,

00:15:37.200 even a member of Congress to define woman.

00:15:39.960 Yeah. If you're a young guy entering the political space and you see an interaction where a woman

00:15:47.020 says to another woman in Congress, what is a woman? And well, I'm not a biologist. I can't answer

00:15:51.960 that. You're a young guy going, what the fuck? Sure. Now for, I think for young women, they're

00:15:57.380 saying don't like, I think women are motivated by social hierarchy and social order. Uh, women are

00:16:03.320 subject oriented on average. Men are object oriented on average. So that's why I think we get this

00:16:07.380 divide. Young men say that is insane. Whereas women say you're speaking out against the group

00:16:12.260 against the collective. Well, and it was a bit of, it's a bit of a joke too, to say, you know,

00:16:16.320 men are more rational, but it is true that men are more pragmatic. They're more based in logic and

00:16:20.520 reason and, and women can operate a little more emotionally. And, and so I think they're, they're

00:16:26.280 in fear of hurting the feelings. Like even, you know, I've had discussions with like close, you know,

00:16:30.960 female friends of mine and, and we have, you know, children and, and we're discussing things like

00:16:35.100 this. And they're also afraid of what their children are going to grow up in, um, what

00:16:40.240 their children are going to be taught because the leaders of society can't even define, you

00:16:44.440 know, what things are, um, based off of what you're saying.

00:16:48.060 And pure inconsistencies like 10 year olds can't get tattoos, but can get puberty blockers.

00:16:52.360 Right. Right. And so when you ask like, what's the logic of not telling, of telling children

00:16:57.280 they can't permanently alter their bodies when they're minors, except in this one instance.

00:17:01.040 Uh, additionally, you said that one of the things about being left is you're going to

00:17:04.360 be okay with transition and things like this. Then you have the question from young guys and

00:17:09.380 from people in general, why is this the one DSM five disorder that we affirm and the others

00:17:14.040 we don't? And there's no answers for this.

00:17:15.620 Well, there is an answer. It's because transition seems to reduce suicidality by 60%.

00:17:19.180 False.

00:17:19.800 It's not false. This is like repeated.

00:17:21.700 Define suicidality.

00:17:23.040 Suicidality is in attempts.

00:17:24.760 That's incorrect.

00:17:25.660 It's not incorrect. This is, this is unquestionable.

00:17:27.960 Chase, uh, uh, what's, what was the Supreme court argument from the ACLU?

00:17:32.680 Did you listen to that?

00:17:33.980 The ACLU's lawyer said, in fact, it does not to the Supreme court.

00:17:37.700 And so what we look at is here's, here's where I'm at. Don't know, don't care about

00:17:42.240 whatever the DSM mental disorder is, be anorexia, bulimia.

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00:18:12.980 I don't care. What's the treatment?

00:18:14.980 We find that the existing scientific research says that desistance rates, not detransition,

00:18:19.500 desistance, where a child who is trans entering puberty simply desists from being trans is

00:18:25.020 greater than chance. Some estimates between 65 to 90 percent. Suicidal ideation is around

00:18:32.980 37 to 40 percent among people who do transition. That would imply there is a greater possibility to

00:18:39.820 reduce suicidal ideation by not intervening with medical treatment.

00:18:43.320 And the other option is actually to affirm the birth given gender. I tried to look up some studies

00:18:49.080 for this, and I don't think there's ever been any studies done where they're specifically on people

00:18:54.300 who have body dysmorphia or trans, you know, ideology or whatever, and think they're another

00:18:58.780 gender and are trying to transition being given the, like, testosterone if they're male and estrogen

00:19:04.720 if they're female. But there are studies that have been done that are given to patients who have

00:19:09.600 depression. And there's, I'm pretty sure there's a handful of studies that were double blind

00:19:14.120 where they give them testosterone or estrogen and it decreases their depression rates.

00:19:19.960 Sure. So this is where I want to go back to this timeline conversation, right? I'm not here

00:19:23.860 interested in defending the crazy left. Most of my career was spent fighting them, right? I fought

00:19:28.600 most of these people most of my career because I believe that if the left wants to represent

00:19:32.780 anything, they need to have a strong back. They need to believe in something and they need to

00:19:36.300 kick out their extremists, right? And I think that the left failed to do that. The issue is that a

00:19:41.040 lot of people are looking at the left and right, and they're looking 2016 to now, and they're not

00:19:45.480 looking at, say, 2016 to 1970. Yeah, but you would consider yourself to be probably in support of

00:19:50.880 that position, right? Which position? About, you know, gender-affirming care. It depends on what

00:19:56.160 you mean when you say gender-affirming care. For children, specifically. By and large, I'm pretty

00:19:59.780 skeptical about the, like, process by which we, like, properly evaluate children. You would generally support it

00:20:04.680 though, right? If it's managed better right now, I think it's too experimental. I think it's too

00:20:08.720 right. But you separate yourself from the left, the extreme left, and, like, as a more of a lay

00:20:13.480 person sort of on the right, I mean, I, that's extreme left to me. What I mean, it's like, yeah,

00:20:19.800 even, even considering... I don't even think you've gotten to what I'm saying, though,

00:20:23.880 right? Like, the issue is that, like, we can talk about the far left, and I'm probably just going

00:20:27.820 to agree with you that there's a lot of crazies. The timeline conversation that we need to have is,

00:20:31.440 we need to remember what it was like from, like, 1990 to 2016 when the right had a lot of strong

00:20:36.760 cultural war. I remember growing up in a very conservative idea where evolution was viewed as

00:20:42.820 evil and bad and anti-everything. When it, this is an anti-science perspective that was dominant on the

00:20:50.120 right, and it feels like we've forgotten about this. I grew up in a school where parents were advocating

00:20:54.560 to remove any mention of evolution, any mention of adaptions over time. They just wanted to basically

00:21:02.540 cut out a large portion of biological science. And so while I agree that the left won the culture

00:21:08.600 war in 2016, well, they canceled their opponents off of it, mostly, and they did a lot of bad stuff,

00:21:16.280 and they went too far. I would just agree with that. The issue is that I'm still fundamentally left

00:21:22.100 because my principles and my policies fall left, and I believe in a party, whatever party it is,

00:21:30.520 that stands up for those things that I value. Which specific, like, so outside of the crazy

00:21:35.640 left stuff, what particularly would you look for in a party? Strong institutions, not...

00:21:39.780 Like, what does that mean? Strong institutions means institutions that are effective, that are

00:21:43.340 power balanced, and are reactive with speed. But does this mean, like, the FBI or the Federal

00:21:50.680 Reserve? Like, what institutions do you mean? Most of them. So, like, most of the institutions

00:21:54.840 that I think that we have erected are, by and large, pretty good. I think there's good reason

00:21:57.740 for them, though I don't know all of the... Like the FBI.

00:21:59.680 Sure, but I don't know, like, all of the history for it. I'm willing to basically grant that I'm not

00:22:03.540 smarter than, like, 200 years of American institutional development to just assume that I know better than

00:22:10.220 the FBI, necessarily, right? I'm just... I'm not trying to... It's not a gotcha. I mean, like,

00:22:14.180 when you say the institutions, does it mean universities? Does it mean the post...

00:22:17.440 So, universities, healthcare, the three branches of the government, the central banking, the...

00:22:25.760 Central banking, wow.

00:22:26.920 Yeah, the NGO that exists to kind of, like, counterbalance and third-party check certain

00:22:31.700 things. So, when I talk about the institutions, I'm talking broadly about most of the institutions.

00:22:35.760 Yeah, but I think you recognize many of them grow corrupt over a long period of time, right?

00:22:40.800 Right. So, this would be my counter. On the left, we say strong institutions, and the problem

00:22:45.660 is that I think a lot of them have become rigid. And I don't know if you know much about metalsmithing,

00:22:49.840 but there's this idea... Very noble.

00:22:51.860 But there's this idea when you're building swords, for example, you need to have a strong sword. It

00:22:57.640 needs to be both flexible and strong. So, if it's too hard and not flexible, it'll break,

00:23:03.500 right? And if it's too flexible, but not hard enough, it'll bend. And so, when I say strong

00:23:07.840 institutions, I mean, basically, the properly crafted sword. It needs to be flexible enough to react to

00:23:13.780 stuff, which I think proceduralism has killed their flexibility, but it needs to be strong

00:23:17.940 enough to withstand people who might want to attack the Constitution, people who might want

00:23:22.320 to be corrupt, which everyone, most people that enter politics are probably somewhat corrupt

00:23:26.480 to some degree, right? It needs to be able to withstand these things with the assumption of

00:23:31.240 what incentive structures do to human nature.

00:23:33.380 So, who did you vote for in 2024?

00:23:35.040 I'm not American, so...

00:23:36.060 Oh, you're not American?

00:23:36.760 No.

00:23:37.220 Oh, you're Canadian?

00:23:38.060 I'm Canadian.

00:23:38.480 All these Canadians coming to our country trying to influence our politics.

00:23:40.720 Yeah, true.

00:23:42.780 Okay, who did you vote for in Canada, Trudeau?

00:23:45.020 I didn't vote in this last election because I haven't been in the country for, like, almost

00:23:48.200 two years.

00:23:48.600 Ah, okay.

00:23:49.100 Yeah.

00:23:49.360 So, uh...

00:23:50.780 Before that was Aaron O'Toole, who's a conservative.

00:23:53.500 Before that was NDP.

00:23:54.540 You voted for a conservative?

00:23:55.580 Yep, I vote all...

00:23:56.480 In Canada, we don't have this, like...

00:23:58.720 Yeah, you vote for a party, don't you?

00:24:00.400 Well, we have, like, six, right?

00:24:02.500 We just...

00:24:03.480 It's less culturally baked in that, like, if you're a conservative, you're always a conservative

00:24:08.840 and forever a conservative.

00:24:10.020 Like, most people in Canada will vote, like, maybe NDP locally.

00:24:14.180 At a provincial level, they might vote, like, liberal.

00:24:17.080 And then at a federal level, they might vote, like, something else, right?

00:24:20.360 Like, that's pretty standard in Canada.

00:24:21.940 So, U.S.-wise, you would probably still find yourself aligned with the Democratic Party?

00:24:26.300 Yeah, theoretically, if I had been able to vote and I was American, I probably would have

00:24:29.840 voted for Congress.

00:24:30.260 This is what I can't understand.

00:24:31.280 I mean, by all means, criticize the Trump administration, whatever, I don't care.

00:24:34.960 The Obama administration...

00:24:38.040 You know, I'm not going to speak to anyone before when I, like...

00:24:41.400 Like, Bill Clinton, I can say very little about.

00:24:43.640 I was a child.

00:24:44.700 But I can say that Bush sucked and violated the Constitution.

00:24:48.280 Obama sucked, violated the Constitution.

00:24:50.000 And I can...

00:24:50.280 We can go into great detail how.

00:24:51.160 So, and Joe Biden and his administration was probably the most egregious violation of

00:24:57.820 constitutional norms in our institutions that I've ever seen in my life.

00:25:01.260 Sure.

00:25:01.680 And then now we have, like, 2024 Trump, who I would argue is, like, also violating the

00:25:06.480 Constitution, like, pretty openly.

00:25:08.960 And so, I guess my question to you would be, I don't really want to participate in any

00:25:12.780 of this.

00:25:13.040 First of all, if I was an American, I'd be voting in my midterms and my primaries and

00:25:16.740 my locals, right?

00:25:18.380 Not just my federal, which most people don't even do.

00:25:20.720 Most people that complain about their politics don't even vote at their primaries, which

00:25:24.480 is how you get the nuance in your own party.

00:25:26.660 If you're mad...

00:25:27.580 Like, this is what I say to leftists.

00:25:28.620 If you're mad that the Democrats don't represent you, vote in your primaries.

00:25:32.300 If you're not voting in your primaries, you'll never get represented at a federal level.

00:25:35.300 Like, what are you even talking about?

00:25:36.200 What are they...

00:25:36.620 There's a word for this when someone believes in voting to change things that the left uses.

00:25:39.880 I forgot what it was.

00:25:41.060 Probably a stupid liberal.

00:25:42.900 It's like...

00:25:43.460 No, it's like votarian or, like...

00:25:45.500 It's some word like that.

00:25:47.120 Voterist or something.

00:25:48.120 A person who believes that voting will change a system?

00:25:49.960 I believe in democracy, right?

00:25:51.720 And I think democracy is the best system we've arrived at thus far.

00:25:54.620 Not because I think democracy is a fundamental good, or capitalism.

00:25:57.420 I think that they are two systems that we have created that take incentive structures

00:26:02.980 that almost make people always do bad shit, power, money, greed, and it has, with those

00:26:09.640 incentive structures, made the best country with the most human rights and the most flourishing

00:26:15.020 in all of human history.

00:26:16.400 But we aren't a democracy.

00:26:18.060 We are a democracy.

00:26:19.300 The United States is a constitutional republic with democratically elected representatives.

00:26:23.020 Do you know why the founders said a constitutional republic?

00:26:25.520 Because a liberal democracy wasn't a term that was invented yet.

00:26:27.920 Liberal democracy is like a semantic term historically to represent countries that function with some

00:26:32.360 kind of electoral...

00:26:33.320 It's a constitutional republic because if you look back at the constitutional republic and

00:26:36.580 what they describe, it later became what we know now as a liberal democracy.

00:26:39.680 The reason that the founding fathers, like Hamilton and Madison, who are the people writing

00:26:43.380 on this in the original letters, the reason that they explicitly talk about not using the

00:26:48.100 word democracy is because when they think of democracy, they thought of the Greeks.

00:26:50.680 And they're like, well, we don't want some like crazy, like just vote by population democracy.

00:26:55.200 We don't like that thing.

00:26:56.400 We want something that is more like essentially what we have now, which is a liberal democracy.

00:27:01.260 Publicanism.

00:27:03.300 Yeah.

00:27:03.840 Various jurisdictions who send an elected representative to go and represent the interests of the area.

00:27:07.640 Sure.

00:27:08.120 The issue is that like we just do have a democracy.

00:27:10.740 Like we're fundamentally, if in every way we're functioning as a democracy, we're acting as

00:27:16.060 a democracy, we're voting, then like at some point we have to call the duck a duck.

00:27:20.680 Except Congress does not enact policy based on the will of the people.

00:27:24.260 That's a fact.

00:27:25.120 It's usually the will of the wealthy and the elite, which is what the founding fathers intended,

00:27:29.880 which is why the 17th Amendment got ratified in the early 1900s, because the original idea

00:27:34.080 of how senators were sent to Congress at the federal level was that your state reps would

00:27:38.840 choose to represent the state.

00:27:40.620 So you would vote for a state rep who would then in their own council say, we want our state

00:27:46.080 senator to be that guy over there and no one had a say in it.

00:27:48.160 So in the early 1900s, they were like, hey, the problem is they're sending cronies.

00:27:53.340 So we're going to change this.

00:27:54.220 I don't actually agree.

00:27:55.200 I think they did it because it allowed the subversion of state choice, state authority.

00:28:00.260 But the general idea among the founding fathers was that we needed, quote, better men to decide

00:28:04.900 for the public, not a democracy.

00:28:07.200 Right.

00:28:07.360 This is why you have the Electoral College in the first place.

00:28:09.260 This is why I tell people, vote in your primaries.

00:28:11.480 But this is a democracy, right?

00:28:13.640 Just because you vote for an elected and then that elected gets to make decisions on your

00:28:18.140 behalf.

00:28:18.540 This is still fundamentally, in every way, democracy, right?

00:28:21.800 The function of a democracy is that the will of the people transfer their authority and

00:28:27.000 their power to an elect who then speaks for them.

00:28:30.660 And we can talk about whether or not the people who speak for them do a good enough job.

00:28:34.340 You and I would probably agree a lot because I'm very critical of it.

00:28:36.520 Do you think in the past 100 years, the U.S. government has actually enacted policies at

00:28:42.080 the will of the American people?

00:28:43.820 By and large, yes.

00:28:45.360 I think the data shows us that the answer is no, they don't.

00:28:48.720 There was the Plutonomy article from Citibank 14 years ago where Citibank drafted this internal

00:28:55.700 paper to be shared with a bunch of financial interests saying the United States is not a

00:28:59.300 democracy.

00:28:59.820 It is a Plutonomy where the wealthy control the political class and the political class enacts

00:29:03.560 the interests of the wealthy elite.

00:29:05.020 I think that's actually fascinating because I would assume the left position is largely

00:29:09.980 that, yeah, politicians don't represent our interests.

00:29:11.740 They represent the lobbyists, the corporations.

00:29:13.620 That's because you were mixing me up with far left people.

00:29:16.340 I'm not mixing you up.

00:29:17.180 I'm saying it's interesting that you would assert that when the left liberal occupy Wall

00:29:21.560 Street, the moderate, largely view corporations as unduly influencing our political system.

00:29:26.660 I think most people would agree, though.

00:29:27.860 The issue is that this is my issue with leftists, too, just because there is corruption.

00:29:32.460 It doesn't mean that democracy isn't occurring, necessarily.

00:29:37.020 We can definitely say corruption is happening and there's something that needs to be done

00:29:40.060 about it.

00:29:40.380 But essentially, my question would be, what's the alternative?

00:29:42.480 Do you want America not to be a democracy?

00:29:45.100 Well, I guess the issue is how you define the phrase democracy, right?

00:29:48.980 Do you want to take away people's right to vote?

00:29:50.760 Again, all people everywhere all the time.

00:29:56.140 Do we want to put certain restrictions on voting?

00:29:58.580 Do we want to open up voting to literally anybody?

00:29:59.740 I'm asking you.

00:30:00.440 I genuinely, I don't know your position.

00:30:01.880 Right.

00:30:02.060 So when you say, do you want to take away people's right to vote?

00:30:05.280 What's going to happen is there's going to be a semantic manipulation on the left where

00:30:08.060 they say people means everyone.

00:30:10.920 And then what you'll get on the right is something like, they'll reference Starship Troopers,

00:30:14.360 service guarantees citizenship.

00:30:15.400 Right, where it's like, when you allow people who are not citizens to vote, which some jurisdictions

00:30:20.400 are doing, like in California, New York, they're trying, you are going to get a representation

00:30:25.900 of non-citizens and what are the non-citizens going to vote for?

00:30:30.700 They're going to vote for their families back home.

00:30:32.420 Why wouldn't they?

00:30:32.920 I expect them to vote for their families, right?

00:30:34.260 Sure.

00:30:34.660 And I would agree that there should be like some limits on who gets to vote, right?

00:30:37.680 This is why I think citizenship is a really good standard by which who gets to vote,

00:30:41.300 right?

00:30:41.580 There's also even a good question, like, should expats get to vote?

00:30:44.500 If you haven't been in the country for 30 years, even though you're still a citizen,

00:30:47.520 what's your like...

00:30:48.540 You pay taxes.

00:30:49.380 You pay taxes.

00:30:50.220 Yeah.

00:30:50.820 Americans do.

00:30:51.500 Expat Americans do.

00:30:52.600 Canadian, should I be voting as a Canadian if I haven't been in my country for like 20

00:30:56.240 years because we don't have to pay taxes to Canada?

00:30:57.800 I don't know the answer to this, right?

00:30:59.460 So I'm willing to grant that there should be limitations to who votes.

00:31:02.780 My question to you is still, essentially, are you opposed to America being a democracy?

00:31:07.660 Again, it depends on what you mean by democracy.

00:31:10.740 A transfer of the people of power to an elected official who then does their will.

00:31:16.380 I love it.

00:31:17.320 Okay.

00:31:17.900 Yeah.

00:31:18.080 What do you want that to look like?

00:31:19.580 Not like it looks now, to be completely honest.

00:31:21.580 That's fine.

00:31:22.020 But what do you want it to look like?

00:31:23.880 Yeah.

00:31:24.120 Like a person goes for the people, has a conversation over what the representative bloc wants to see

00:31:29.700 happen in their various political structures, be it at the state level, local city, or otherwise.

00:31:35.200 Sure.

00:31:35.380 Those individuals go and then enact the will of their voter base and to the best interest

00:31:38.980 they possibly could.

00:31:40.080 Without the pit stop at the NGOs and the lobbyists and all that stuff.

00:31:43.060 Yep.

00:31:43.500 And not having luxury steak dinners or being flown on private jets or going on boats and

00:31:47.340 all that stuff.

00:31:47.940 Sure.

00:31:48.200 Okay.

00:31:48.400 So we should get money out of politics, like by and large.

00:31:51.100 Okay.

00:31:51.340 So I would totally agree with you.

00:31:52.760 Like carry committees are the worst thing ever that happened.

00:31:55.180 And the problem is that now we have a mollux game, right?

00:31:57.400 This is the big issue with politics is that when, and this is my biggest criticism of the

00:32:01.840 carry committee is that essentially one, sorry, just to make sure everyone is aware of like

00:32:06.100 what a carry committee is and stuff like that.

00:32:08.580 Not aware.

00:32:09.160 Okay.

00:32:09.400 Just, just want to make sure.

00:32:10.520 And it's fine.

00:32:11.520 You don't need to know esoteric words.

00:32:12.700 It's not a gotcha.

00:32:13.580 So a carry committee is essentially what we call like a super PAC.

00:32:16.400 It's usually going to be a combination of an, sometimes it'll be a nonprofit or a charity,

00:32:20.380 a C4 and a C3.

00:32:21.860 And sometimes there'll be some other little fun things thrown in there, but that's essentially

00:32:24.740 what it is.

00:32:25.180 And it essentially, this combination of things allows infinite donations.

00:32:29.220 Some of them, most of them, which can be hidden into who does it because they would

00:32:33.740 be a C3, right?

00:32:34.780 Which means that they're bipartisan and then they usually are not bipartisan.

00:32:38.340 And this is true on both sides, just so it's clear.

00:32:40.640 Both sides are doing this.

00:32:42.240 So carry committees get introduced.

00:32:44.200 And the problem now is that if you want to run for federal office ever, good luck without

00:32:49.500 a carry committee.

00:32:50.660 You must participate in the evil thing that you despise.

00:32:53.680 Because if you don't, you will be limited in how much money you can raise.

00:32:57.220 And the reality is that money does make elections work, which is gross, but how are you going

00:33:01.820 to get your ads out?

00:33:02.860 How are you going to pay for your tour?

00:33:04.580 How are you going to pay for your staffers?

00:33:06.280 How are you going to pay for your flyers, right?

00:33:08.080 So money has to be infused to some degree in a democracy.

00:33:12.300 There's no way not to do it.

00:33:13.360 Exactly.

00:33:13.880 And so then this issue goes, okay, well, if everyone, even if they want to play the game,

00:33:18.600 even if you've got, we've got Jesus, okay, Jesus comes down and he's going to become

00:33:22.740 a politician, which I would argue he would never do, but say he does.

00:33:25.780 I'd vote for him.

00:33:26.780 Jesus, me too.

00:33:28.220 I would vote the fuck for Jesus, okay?

00:33:30.560 The question is, Jesus also will have to have a carry committee.

00:33:34.000 This is the Moloch's game, where essentially once the bad thing is in play, if you don't

00:33:38.780 participate, you don't get to play at all.

00:33:40.960 And so now we have this issue where we already have a bad thing, in this case, just the carry

00:33:45.940 committee, and both sides have to participate.

00:33:48.560 And the issue is now there's no incentive to get rid of it because nobody's going to

00:33:53.380 canvas and like promote themselves on saying I'm anti-carry committee, because if they do,

00:33:58.120 they will get no funding.

00:33:59.660 Isn't this kind of part of the problem though?

00:34:02.380 Like if we're trying to figure out why men are leaving the left, you know, we're not having,

00:34:07.120 we're not able to have a conversation like this with most people on the left, to be honest.

00:34:11.400 You know, the people that, and currently there's no evidence that shows that the Democratic

00:34:16.440 Party is interested in having people like that represent them.

00:34:20.160 The money, the people that they're supporting, the Parkers, the Harry Sissons, the Deans,

00:34:24.700 all that stuff.

00:34:25.680 It's, I mean, and then this just recently, they put up that lady, Olivia Giuliani or whatever

00:34:31.800 that was going around on X.

00:34:33.520 There's no evidence that they're even willing to concede on any of their positions.

00:34:38.580 Let me tell you, so we did a live event for the show and we're planning a series of live

00:34:43.240 show.

00:34:43.460 That was our pilot.

00:34:44.120 We're trying to figure out how it works.

00:34:46.300 I can tweet who wants to come and debate on the culture war and on the right, you'll

00:34:52.480 get 500,000 responses.

00:34:55.000 I'll get a text from Charlie Kirk saying, I'd love to find some dates that work.

00:34:58.200 On the left, they say, contact my agent and we'll give you our rates.

00:35:02.720 Then if we, a few people I'll give credit to, the Krasensteins, as much as, you know,

00:35:07.460 there's contention between our opinions.

00:35:09.700 They're fun to make fun of.

00:35:11.100 Absolutely.

00:35:11.700 But I respect that they've come on the show.

00:35:14.760 They've said, let us know when you have dates.

00:35:15.940 We'd love to be a part of the conversation.

00:35:17.680 And I, very few people, you, very few people want to do these things.

00:35:21.620 And so that makes it impossible.

00:35:24.180 I think the reason why is the fear that if you defy the orthodoxy, you'll be excommunicated.

00:35:29.800 Yep.

00:35:30.120 They're right.

00:35:31.340 Dean is fully audience captured.

00:35:33.460 I mean, his friend, Harry Sisson.

00:35:35.020 Canceled on us.

00:35:35.360 It's crazy.

00:35:36.220 I'm sure he did, right?

00:35:37.400 Yeah, he got scared.

00:35:38.740 They all do, though.

00:35:39.640 And that's what I was going to, that's what I was going to bring up, too, in regard to

00:35:42.480 all of them.

00:35:42.960 It's like, I think a big problem, too, is that this new TikTok culture, like you're

00:35:49.140 saying, has an audience captured.

00:35:51.080 And what is the audience on TikTok?

00:35:53.400 TikTok is largely designed for women.

00:35:55.680 It's got to be left-leaning.

00:35:56.620 It's a lot of female users, more than like any other app, I'm pretty sure.

00:35:59.740 Yeah, anytime I defend feminism, I do well.

00:36:01.420 Anytime I defend men, not so good.

00:36:02.960 So, yeah, so, I mean, so these platforms are shaping these young influencers, and then

00:36:09.460 they're terrified to go anywhere without their mute button.

00:36:12.500 Sure, but there's, like, TikTok is a hell of a problem to get into, right?

00:36:17.020 Because you've got to talk about, like, China and all these other, like, blah, blah, blah,

00:36:19.280 blah, blah, blah.

00:36:21.180 I'll go out of it.

00:36:22.040 This goes back to my timeline, right, which is essentially for me to say, do I think the

00:36:25.620 left fucked up by letting the progressives win the culture war?

00:36:28.540 Yes, I think they did, because I don't think the progressives actually represent most people.

00:36:32.680 And now, unfortunately, they've convinced a bunch of young, stupid kids that they do.

00:36:36.660 And so a bunch of kids put, like, a black box in their Instagram to pretend that they

00:36:41.760 care about black people.

00:36:42.720 But they still find, like, the unk biking down the highway with, like, loud music annoying

00:36:47.920 and stuff like that, right?

00:36:48.820 Like, in all ways, there's this performance that I think has ransacked the left in a way

00:36:54.360 that I think is repugnant.

00:36:55.760 The issue is that I'm, the real question is, why be left?

00:36:59.860 And the reason that I'm left is because when I go all the way back, and I look at the systems

00:37:04.980 that I believe in, I fundamentally keep falling left.

00:37:08.540 I just, I just fundamentally do.

00:37:11.440 And so then the only question is, I guess I have to fight for what I believe in within

00:37:15.980 the group, right?

00:37:17.580 I, I, my opinion is that the most logical, rational place for you to be would be voting

00:37:23.520 for Donald Trump.

00:37:24.380 And you're choosing not to, and you're just coming up with the reasons why it can sound

00:37:27.780 like you're still part of that tribe.

00:37:29.340 Uh, nope, because I, I don't believe in what I think Trump advocates for.

00:37:33.040 Like, I fundamentally think that Trump doesn't reflect my values.

00:37:36.360 So you have in the Trump coalition, RFK Jr., which is a predominantly left health worldview

00:37:43.160 that was dominant for decades.

00:37:44.820 That is, uh, you know, people criticize him on vaccine stuff, but he's been pro vaccine

00:37:49.240 the whole time, even recommending the MMR vaccine and, uh, no, no artificial food dies.

00:37:54.740 The health craze was a left culture war my whole life until these past several years.

00:38:01.380 The right started picking up these things because the left had abandoned it and started siding

00:38:04.500 with weird corporate interests on, on foodstuffs.

00:38:07.080 Yeah.

00:38:07.300 Partisan hacks are bad.

00:38:08.520 Tulsi Gabbard is anti-military industrial complex, anti-interventionist and anti-regime

00:38:12.700 change, which has been a position to the left my whole life.

00:38:15.500 And so I look at Donald Trump and he says, we want a border barrier.

00:38:18.920 That was Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders position, even up to 2016.

00:38:22.240 And so looking at what Donald Trump is offering, he's moderate on abortion to the chagrin of

00:38:27.500 conservatives.

00:38:27.920 He's got left, uh, coded anti-war, which is not left anymore.

00:38:32.620 I don't know.

00:38:33.300 Now they're pro war, I guess, pro war with Ukraine.

00:38:35.700 Um, Donald Trump may be moderate right-leaning on a lot of issues and he's built a, uh, moderate

00:38:41.200 left-leaning coalition that satisfies a lot of my liberal, uh, policy views.

00:38:45.460 So it makes literally no sense in my opinion then for someone to be like, to defend the

00:38:49.700 constitution, we're going to support the Democrats.

00:38:51.240 And I'm like, yeah, they, they arrested Trump's lawyers.

00:38:54.100 That's unconstitutional.

00:38:55.160 That's like an egregious violation of institutions and norms in this country.

00:38:58.660 And they did it in numerous States.

00:39:00.200 They falsely accused Trump of several crimes.

00:39:02.860 They violate statute of limitations.

00:39:04.600 Now you've got Letitia James, uh, falsely accusing Trump of mortgage fraud for paperwork

00:39:08.960 he didn't even handle.

00:39:09.920 And what I view as the divide between left and right, once again, going back to why young

00:39:13.840 men are leaving on this, we're all saying to Bill Maher, you are left or right, not based

00:39:18.400 on your policy views.

00:39:19.420 You are left or right based on what you believe to be true.

00:39:21.320 And, and Bill agreed, despite the fact that we believe different things.

00:39:25.440 So for instance, he said, yeah, Trump wasn't a Russian agent, but he was certainly working

00:39:29.700 with the Russians and he lied.

00:39:30.760 And when I brought up the Ukraine scandal, he didn't know about it.

00:39:33.740 He did not know that in 2017 Politico reported at the same time as they were accusing Trump

00:39:38.080 of colluding with Russia, Ukraine and the Democrats were literally colluding to assist

00:39:42.040 Hillary Clinton to win and it backfired and it caused problems.

00:39:45.800 They, uh, we had Hunter Avalon on Timcast IRL.

00:39:48.860 And when I pointed out that Joe Biden said, quote, if you don't fire the prosecutor, not

00:39:53.720 getting the billion dollars, he immediately smirked and said, it never happened.

00:39:56.760 And I played the video for him and he was like, no idea that it happened.

00:40:00.400 So what I typically run into is liberals tend not to know what's going on in the world.

00:40:05.200 And probably the reason why they're scared to do shows is because they default to, I didn't

00:40:11.100 know that.

00:40:11.580 And so we've even, uh, offered up friendly, certain friendly liberal person as I'll, I'll

00:40:16.600 leave their name out of it because I'm not going to try and drag them who, um, you know,

00:40:20.560 dirtbag leftist types.

00:40:21.620 They're anti-woke, but they're leftist politically, they cancel on us all the time because they

00:40:26.600 know they're going to sit down and they're going to end up sounding like Alex Jones.

00:40:29.940 We're going to, I'm going to pull up an article from, uh, the New York times that says Ukraine,

00:40:34.740 a Ukraine court ruled that they illegally interfered in the U S election to aid the Democrats.

00:40:38.140 And they're going to have to reconcile with that and say, yes, that happened.

00:40:41.160 But then when they go back to their Democrat circles, they're going to say, how dare you

00:40:44.420 make that claim?

00:40:45.420 Well, I was actually like a Yang gang kind of guy leading up to like the 20 of the 2020

00:40:50.480 election.

00:40:51.200 And something that, that turned me back towards Trump was just like you're saying, I started

00:40:56.340 seeing all these articles, a couple of them.

00:40:58.340 I think you covered on your show.

00:41:00.080 Um, remember the one about, uh, there's a video of Trump.

00:41:03.840 There may or may not be a video of Trump in an elevator.

00:41:06.000 I love that one, dude.

00:41:06.680 It's like the most bizarre headline I've ever heard.

00:41:09.260 It's a great one.

00:41:10.540 Um, then another one was, uh, the, of course, the one you just went over with Adam Conover,

00:41:15.780 that clip was going everywhere.

00:41:17.080 There were great people on both sides.

00:41:18.720 Come on.

00:41:19.300 Huffington Post.

00:41:19.920 A tape might exist of Trump doing something in an elevator though.

00:41:22.960 Exactly where that somewhere is and what that something might be.

00:41:25.540 No one in media can say that's because no one in media seems to have seen the tape or

00:41:29.240 is even confident it exists.

00:41:30.680 Yo, Huffington Post literally wrote an article about Trump may or may not have done something

00:41:36.040 that may have been recorded.

00:41:37.000 We don't know if it was recorded.

00:41:37.980 We don't know what it is.

00:41:38.860 Yep.

00:41:39.520 And, and then another, another, my top three, those are my three favorite ones.

00:41:43.540 That one, the, there were good people on both sides.

00:41:45.980 And then the Trump puts ketchup on his steak.

00:41:48.440 Right.

00:41:48.620 And that one hit home for me because I grew up like dirt poor.

00:41:51.680 There's eight kids in my family.

00:41:52.860 Let's try this one.

00:41:53.420 I put ketchup on my steak because we were eating cheap steak.

00:41:55.780 Um, I, I, I'm, I'm actually going to make the bet.

00:41:58.320 You'll get it right.

00:41:59.080 Did Donald Trump called, uh, white supremacists fine people?

00:42:02.160 I don't think so.

00:42:04.240 What did he say?

00:42:05.220 I, I can't remember.

00:42:06.320 I just like, my assumption is that it's, it's clip baited because most things about Trump

00:42:10.640 are Joe Biden launched his 2020 campaign claiming that Donald Trump called white supremacists

00:42:15.260 fine people, which he never did.

00:42:16.300 It's fake.

00:42:17.060 And, uh, the video, what, what was the actual content?

00:42:19.680 I, I don't know.

00:42:20.380 During Charlottesville, Trump said, I've seen the videos and there were very fine people

00:42:24.280 on both sides.

00:42:25.160 And I am not talking about the white nationalists and neo-Nazis because they should be condemned

00:42:28.620 totally.

00:42:29.380 Gotcha.

00:42:29.740 And the entirety of the Democrat aligned media apparatus cut off the back half of the quote

00:42:34.520 and show Trump saying very fine people on both sides clip and then showing white nationalists

00:42:39.600 marching with tiki torches.

00:42:40.620 Gotcha.

00:42:41.240 And that was how Joe Biden launched his campaign.

00:42:43.580 And this is why I say me, I'm, I'm, I consider myself to be like moderately pro-choice.

00:42:48.220 So the, where Democrats were with safe, legal, and rare, I think abortion is wrong.

00:42:53.320 I think it is a bad thing, but I also don't, I don't know how you get to a governmental system

00:42:58.080 where a woman has to get a court writ to be able to have any kind of medical procedure.

00:43:02.780 The end result of course is this, I don't want to, you always got to rehash the abortion

00:43:06.720 debate because people don't understand the nuance, but you end up with a system where it's

00:43:09.780 like, a woman goes to the doctor and they're like, heavens me, you're having an emergency

00:43:13.800 insert something.

00:43:15.120 We have to terminate the baby to save your life.

00:43:17.000 Like unrelated to the pregnancy.

00:43:18.400 And that's like, okay, let's try and get a speedy writ from a judge to confirm this.

00:43:22.480 Sure.

00:43:23.000 So, but the medical abortions has never really been a problem though.

00:43:26.180 So my, my point is the end result is that you get people abusing the system.

00:43:30.820 So this is, this is the challenge in trying to find a compromise, but without rehashing

00:43:35.440 the abortion debate, my point is the left's position is abortion up to nine months for any

00:43:40.700 reason, no matter what.

00:43:41.640 Well, if I could put a, this is actually what I, I want to kind of discuss.

00:43:45.200 So I would say if we had more programs to help after, I'd be fine with that too.

00:43:49.180 But look at Colorado to rehash.

00:43:50.840 Colorado removed all restriction on abortion up to nine months.

00:43:53.800 Right.

00:43:54.440 Which is what Canada has as well.

00:43:55.860 Right.

00:43:56.160 Which is insane.

00:43:57.020 Well, the issue is that in Canada, that basically never happens as a result of it.

00:44:00.040 It doesn't matter.

00:44:00.820 So why legalize murder?

00:44:02.200 And then be like, yeah, but people don't get murdered.

00:44:03.380 So we're going to legalize it.

00:44:04.460 What?

00:44:04.600 So probably because this fundamentally should be a more of a congressional issue, right?

00:44:09.560 Like the fact that Roe went through the judicial system in the first place is probably fundamentally

00:44:13.540 part of the problem.

00:44:14.560 Right.

00:44:15.060 And so I disagree.

00:44:16.260 Here's what, here's what I would maybe zoom out to.

00:44:18.640 We're, we're talking about partisan hacks, right?

00:44:21.240 It's really annoying to talk to partisan hacks as somebody who's left leaning, but I'm not really

00:44:26.000 a partisan hack because I don't have a buy-in on your guys's election.

00:44:30.040 Fundamentally, I'm not voting.

00:44:31.060 So I, I don't care about Biden or Kamala because they represent X party.

00:44:36.280 And you know, I'm sure you're familiar.

00:44:38.860 The, the, the left wouldn't even acknowledge that like Biden was kind of weird because he

00:44:43.400 would like had a bunch of clips, like kind of like sniffing kids, little girls.

00:44:46.460 Yeah.

00:44:46.580 It's weird.

00:44:47.120 It's fucking weird.

00:44:48.220 It's super, super weird.

00:44:49.460 The issue is that on the right, I'm now hearing people unironically saying, I don't care about

00:44:54.720 the constitution.

00:44:55.360 And if Donald Trump wants to get rid of the constitution, that's fine with me.

00:44:58.380 And it's like, all of this is crazy town.

00:45:00.240 Yeah.

00:45:00.520 But that's not Charlie Kirk or Ben Shapiro or, uh, you know, who else do we have?

00:45:04.900 Steven Crowder or, you know?

00:45:07.180 Sure.

00:45:07.500 We have different things.

00:45:08.380 Like, for example, getting really mad at like certain violent jokes from the other side,

00:45:13.400 but then celebrating the same types of violent jokes on your side.

00:45:17.640 I think both sides.

00:45:18.400 But what he's saying is like the mainstream pundits are the ones pushing for the crazy

00:45:22.020 ideology on the left and Democrats and party members too.

00:45:26.200 And that's why I asked you what I asked you earlier when I was like, well, how are you

00:45:29.320 saying that you're like identifying moderate left, but some of the positions that you're

00:45:33.140 holding, you know, the majority of right wing would consider some of them extreme left.

00:45:39.120 And then, yeah, the rest of them are probably right.

00:45:41.660 Because when you put a, well, first of all, part of what I'm trying to say is we're not

00:45:46.880 still talking to each other, right?

00:45:48.240 Like I'm here and I'm defending far left positions.

00:45:50.980 I don't hold any of these positions.

00:45:52.460 There's lots of people around me that don't.

00:45:54.020 Why?

00:45:54.280 Why?

00:45:54.460 Don't defend them.

00:45:55.000 I don't know.

00:45:55.640 Well, those are the only point is that you're a conservative.

00:45:57.660 Yeah.

00:45:58.100 I'm not a conservative.

00:45:59.040 You are.

00:45:59.300 I'm just not.

00:46:00.760 I'm fundamentally not right.

00:46:02.080 I like Ezra Klein's abundance policies, right?

00:46:05.480 I just like this.

00:46:06.040 What is that?

00:46:06.920 Ezra Klein?

00:46:07.820 His abundance.

00:46:08.380 I know Ezra Klein, but what?

00:46:09.260 His abundance policies, for example, is very big on like basically removing a lot of proceduralism,

00:46:14.500 figuring out like where the inefficiencies are and making it the case that like blue

00:46:17.660 states can build the things that they believe in, like green energy, high speed rails, et

00:46:23.320 cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

00:46:24.180 Who disagrees?

00:46:26.660 Lots of people on the far left.

00:46:28.340 Steve Bannon wants to tax the rich.

00:46:29.880 He thinks the billionaire should be taxed at 100%.

00:46:31.980 Sure.

00:46:32.940 But then the left wing, I don't know much about Steve Bannon.

00:46:37.120 Well, he's considered like the architect of J6, a far right white nationalist, which

00:46:41.160 he's not, by the way.

00:46:42.260 My point is left and right is not defined by your policies.

00:46:46.220 It's defined by what you believe to be true.

00:46:48.720 I would say it's how you perform mostly.

00:46:51.540 It's how you appear.

00:46:52.180 I think it has to do with, yeah, I mean, I would agree with Tim.

00:46:54.120 I think it has to do with like the underlying culture of each side too.

00:46:57.080 That is how you perform, right?

00:46:58.440 The underlying culture.

00:46:59.240 You code switch really well with men and you say things that are like, yeah, code switch,

00:47:04.200 right?

00:47:04.420 Like I'm sure that when you left coded language, code switching, that is doesn't say it.

00:47:09.340 Code switching is I'm pretty sure from black culture.

00:47:11.320 It's definitely not a left coded thing.

00:47:14.820 Continue, but I'm going to pull it up.

00:47:16.380 Code switching.

00:47:16.980 I love this article.

00:47:19.980 I'm a boomer.

00:47:20.620 I don't even know what you're talking about.

00:47:23.440 It's a black cultural thing.

00:47:25.680 Nope.

00:47:26.500 I mean, maybe.

00:47:28.120 Conservatives don't do this.

00:47:30.960 White liberals present themselves as less competent in interactions with African-Americans.

00:47:34.060 The idea of like when Tim Walz was like, I can co-talk to white guys.

00:47:39.020 Conservatives were like, huh?

00:47:40.940 Because conservatives tend not to change the way they communicate for other groups of people.

00:47:44.600 Just like, sorry, just look into the order if we need to have this fight, which we don't

00:47:48.300 even need to.

00:47:48.860 Code switching comes from the like the black culture, which is talking about black people

00:47:52.880 who are existing in like academic spaces, who have to code switch from like the way that

00:47:57.640 black people talk and interact and culturally exist amongst each other to being super white.

00:48:02.860 This is what code switching comes from.

00:48:04.520 It's not even relevant.

00:48:05.520 That's just what code switching is.

00:48:06.660 What I'm talking about here is that when you're thinking about left and right, it is reducing

00:48:12.420 on like what policies are.

00:48:14.300 And that's part of my problem is that left and right should be policies.

00:48:18.820 And the fact that it's performance based, which you might argue that started with the

00:48:22.780 left.

00:48:23.300 Maybe it did.

00:48:24.020 I'm not fully sure, but say it did.

00:48:25.600 Say it did start with the left.

00:48:26.580 It goes back and forth, actually.

00:48:27.720 I would agree with that.

00:48:29.360 I think it's bad all around.

00:48:30.680 I think it's harmful in every single way for people to look at me and go, she's got a

00:48:34.540 choker, an earpiece.

00:48:36.080 So this is probably her worldview.

00:48:38.060 It probably isn't.

00:48:39.320 In fact, I think about my worldview.

00:48:40.800 It's much more complex than new.

00:48:42.240 And I think that we need to do that to each other.

00:48:44.660 I need to go to Tim Pool and say, what do you believe?

00:48:47.640 Because I know that you're not a stereotypical MAGA.

00:48:50.280 I don't know what it is exactly.

00:48:52.080 That's right wing.

00:48:53.440 What?

00:48:53.960 What you just described.

00:48:55.060 That ethos of let's talk.

00:48:58.120 Let me put it this way.

00:48:59.020 Carl Benjamin had a really great breakdown of my conversation with Adam Conover.

00:49:02.120 And the clip that went massively viral, like Asmongold was talking about it, and he did

00:49:05.980 a really funny bit, was I got exasperated after an hour and a half into the conversation

00:49:10.880 where the dude was clearly not interested in truth.

00:49:14.480 And with all due respect, Adam Conover, I think he was great in terms of wanting to come

00:49:19.320 on the show and with respect, but politically.

00:49:20.700 He does not represent us just so it's fair.

00:49:22.540 Sure, but I mean, he probably represents the average.

00:49:26.320 I mean, he probably represents a typical lefty guy.

00:49:28.980 20 million views per video on left liberal content.

00:49:32.340 He's got a new podcast.

00:49:33.100 He's getting tons of views.

00:49:34.280 He's doing tours.

00:49:35.440 Granted, he got a little flack over that crypto thing.

00:49:37.320 But anyway, the point is, I said the very fine people hoax, and he says, which is, and

00:49:43.400 I said that Trump called Nazis fine people.

00:49:45.180 And he goes, right.

00:49:45.700 He said, there's very fine people on both sides.

00:49:47.220 And then I immediately said, and not the neo-Nazis and white nationalists, because they should

00:49:51.040 be condemned totally.

00:49:52.400 To his response, he said that.

00:49:54.960 And I was like, yes.

00:49:55.880 And I pulled up Snopes that said Trump never called them this.

00:49:59.060 And his response was, I don't know anything about it.

00:50:01.720 Immediately got called out by everybody saying, wait, wait, wait, you just quoted it.

00:50:05.800 You literally just referenced the very fine people on both sides, which is what he was

00:50:10.140 accused of saying, you know, without citing the remainder of the quote.

00:50:14.800 So you do know what this thing is.

00:50:16.580 Now you're claiming you don't.

00:50:18.060 Carl Benjamin pointed out, he said, the ethos of the liberal is adhering to the tribe, to

00:50:24.280 the social order.

00:50:25.820 And he says, and Tim Poole, once of that social order, prioritizes the truth, which is what

00:50:30.900 actually happened.

00:50:31.980 So Tim is desperately trying to say, and I'm quoting Carl, not speaking in third person.

00:50:38.540 This is what actually happened.

00:50:40.660 Whereas Adam is trying to maintain his adherence to social orthodoxy, which I refer to as wokeness.

00:50:46.580 He does not value truth.

00:50:48.540 He values what needs to be said to create social cohesion.

00:50:52.060 Whereas I value truth over social cohesion.

00:50:54.660 It's actually, I think, a masculine feminine coded thing, actually.

00:50:58.200 Women are more subject to wokeness.

00:50:58.860 I think that's true.

00:50:59.420 And there's a question I'd like to pose.

00:51:00.800 Do you think it's easier to change men's mind or women's mind?

00:51:06.380 Women's mind.

00:51:07.660 There's like, no.

00:51:08.280 You think so?

00:51:08.780 Yes.

00:51:09.420 The meme that women just become the political system of their boyfriend and husband is like

00:51:14.560 a classic on every single side.

00:51:17.800 Yes, it is.

00:51:18.620 Women just shift towards typically the opinion of the people around them by and large.

00:51:23.380 This is just unquestionable.

00:51:24.680 I would actually argue it's neutral, different.

00:51:28.200 Men respond to different kinds of arguments and women respond to different kinds of arguments.

00:51:31.700 So understanding the expectations that women have on average that are different, you can

00:51:37.400 exploit either and to believe in whatever you want.

00:51:39.440 Yeah, I mean, that's true.

00:51:40.140 I just feel like intuitively, you know, I haven't dug deep into it, but it was something I was

00:51:43.760 thinking about and it was a good segue into it.

00:51:47.440 Um, I just think intuitively men are probably looking for, you know, more logic and more

00:51:54.020 reason-based solutions or more, um, if you can prove it to me, obviously there's outliers

00:52:00.760 and there's crazy people who are going to stick with it to the end.

00:52:03.600 But so, so that doesn't necessarily confer, uh, uh, a logical system.

00:52:08.540 In fact, a lot of guys will be convinced to follow a guy because he's driving a flashy

00:52:12.220 car.

00:52:12.960 This is where, this is where you get fake it till you make it.

00:52:14.840 A guy will, uh, there was a guy that I knew who ran a business in California and he made

00:52:21.220 something like 60, $70,000 a year.

00:52:23.320 He spent all of his money on, I can't remember what kind of car it was.

00:52:27.620 He got like a Lotus or something, which is like 50 grand or it's not the craziest, but

00:52:31.020 it looks crazy and, uh, was broke living in a bachelor apartment.

00:52:35.900 But when he pulled up the business meetings in a Lotus wearing a nice suit, they said, I

00:52:40.660 want to be like him, not realizing he lived in squalor.

00:52:43.240 He was putting on that and it worked and he was able to sell his company and he made

00:52:46.480 a lot of money.

00:52:46.940 Fake it till you make it.

00:52:47.500 That's Hollywood, baby.

00:52:48.380 It's performance, right?

00:52:49.080 This is what I'm talking about is that most people are moved on like vibes, right?

00:52:53.120 That is the social media.

00:52:54.620 It's true.

00:52:55.240 It's the social media domain, which is unfortunate.

00:52:57.920 The issue is that I'm very tired of hearing like right-leaning people being like the vibe

00:53:02.440 side is just the left.

00:53:03.560 It's like, it's all of you.

00:53:05.200 It's all of you all the way through.

00:53:07.160 And it always has been the biggest problem with the enlightenment and like to some way

00:53:11.660 what you're saying of being like, men are the, like the logical, rational ones.

00:53:15.100 I'm like, not really.

00:53:16.240 They tend to be more object oriented, right?

00:53:18.820 But subjectivity and emotionality is a fundamental part of understanding the world around you because

00:53:24.800 abstraction is essential to engaging in the complexities of the, what the world is around

00:53:29.540 us.

00:53:29.780 This is fundamentally Sorite's paradigm.

00:53:31.740 Yeah.

00:53:31.880 I mean, I think, I think the better way to say it is like, yeah, I probably more agree

00:53:35.540 with like what Tim was saying is that, you know, maybe they're, maybe they're more abstract

00:53:39.100 thought oriented and then, and then men are more like pragmatic.

00:53:42.520 That would be bad.

00:53:43.360 That would not be good.

00:53:44.480 I think men are able to do abstract thought just as well as women.

00:53:47.660 Let me put it this way.

00:53:50.040 Typically not everybody always gets mad when you, when you reference their group, they're

00:53:53.620 like, I don't do that.

00:53:54.320 Yeah, I get it.

00:53:54.760 Um, if you want to convince a woman to follow and do something, you need to have 10 women

00:54:00.780 standing in front of her, all telling her that's the, what you're supposed to do.

00:54:03.100 That's what I was trying to get at.

00:54:04.080 If you want a man to follow, you need a bunch of men looking up to one big, strong guy lavished

00:54:09.340 in golden jewels, telling them what to do.

00:54:11.700 But you can also, I feel like, so I work in the automotive industry.

00:54:16.260 Like if, if there's a guy doing something, if there's a guy doing something the wrong way,

00:54:20.280 like, you know, the doing the job the wrong way 10 times and he's like losing time on

00:54:24.800 it or whatever, if a guy like, you know, picks on him enough, he's like, Oh yeah, you're

00:54:29.300 going to do it that way again.

00:54:30.120 You're going to drop, you know, you're going to go, you're going to go this way and you

00:54:33.320 can kind of give them shit and you can kind of break down there and show it to them.

00:54:36.480 Like, Hey, I got it if you try to do it this way.

00:54:38.540 I got to be honest.

00:54:39.000 I actually think in most interactions, if a guy was like working on a car and was doing it

00:54:43.460 wrong and another guy walked up and said, Oh, actually, if you use the ratchet, it'll

00:54:47.380 go faster.

00:54:47.920 He'll go, Oh, for real?

00:54:48.640 No, thanks.

00:54:48.980 That's sometimes it's stuck in their way.

00:54:51.020 So, or no, I get it.

00:54:52.100 They're like, and then, and then you go back out there and they're, I just, I just think,

00:54:56.460 I think generally speaking, obviously guys can be much more ego driven, but I do think

00:55:02.600 the typical interaction with the guys will be like, uh, try doing it like that.

00:55:06.600 You know, like for me, I'm, I've been, there are people who skateboard, uh, I've been skateboarding

00:55:11.740 longer than they've been alive and I watched their trick tip videos because I have no illusions

00:55:16.540 of like, I'm not going to lie to myself.

00:55:17.880 I can't do that thing.

00:55:19.120 Here's a guy who's 15 years old.

00:55:20.160 He's a better at me.

00:55:20.720 He's going to tell me how to do it.

00:55:21.480 Dang.

00:55:21.700 I've been skating longer than he's been alive.

00:55:23.460 I'll take the advice that I can get.

00:55:25.360 But more to the point, I think there are obstinate guys who are going to be like, I know what

00:55:29.240 I'm doing.

00:55:29.620 Get out of my face.

00:55:30.280 But anyway, the, the major point is the democratic party is female coded.

00:55:35.980 The Republican party is male coded.

00:55:38.220 You are mentioning that it's like performative and vibes, but I would argue that's a generality

00:55:43.140 of the left and a tendency of the right.

00:55:44.980 So on the right, you, this is, I was on trigonometry.

00:55:49.020 It was like two months ago.

00:55:49.920 They put out a month ago.

00:55:51.180 And, uh, what the guys on trigonometry said to me was that you're just blanketing the left.

00:55:55.360 I could say, say, say something about the right.

00:55:56.760 And I said, you're wrong.

00:55:57.740 Yeah, you're wrong.

00:55:58.540 Um, on the right, you have Tulsi Gabbard, former liberal, RFK Jr., former liberal.

00:56:02.760 You have Elon Musk, former liberal, technically all still liberals, I guess, but working with

00:56:05.660 the Republicans.

00:56:06.680 And then you have Christian conservative, Charlie Kirk, probably the most prominent who says,

00:56:12.060 Tim Poole, you're a moderately liberal leaning guy.

00:56:14.460 Come sit on my stage for the biggest event of the year in politics and talk about what you

00:56:19.380 think.

00:56:20.160 And it's in, in, that's not vibe coded.

00:56:22.180 I can go on that stage and say, Donald Trump should be criminally investigated for the

00:56:25.260 commando raid in Yemen that killed a seven-year-old American girl.

00:56:27.920 And the conservatives are like, okay, but heaven forbid a liberal go in a space and say

00:56:33.540 something like, remember Seth Moulton was like, we shouldn't be having males compete in women's

00:56:37.980 sports.

00:56:38.400 They, they went after that guy, went for his throat.

00:56:40.200 Well, they could, they also, they couldn't admit that, that there was some like, uh, signs

00:56:43.820 of early dementia or some, some signs of like mental degradation for, and then as soon

00:56:47.920 as he gets out of office or maybe they're thinking about running Kamala against him, it's

00:56:51.200 oh, he's falling apart.

00:56:52.620 The group that is accepting is always the group that's been on the tail end for the

00:56:55.720 last little bit, right?

00:56:56.660 So the left was the really accepting chill group that just basically allowed everyone

00:57:00.880 in as long as you stood for the, a lot of similar ideas.

00:57:03.700 And they would kind of talk to everyone during the entire rationalist era, right?

00:57:07.600 This, it was a very, very open space.

00:57:09.420 The issue is that then the left won the culture war by canceling a lot of right speakers off

00:57:14.580 of their platforms.

00:57:15.580 And then they got deranged and echo chambered and wouldn't talk to anyone anymore.

00:57:19.960 So now the right is the accepting side, but to assume that it will remain the accepting

00:57:24.280 side is just false.

00:57:26.120 Well, that's exactly what I'm saying.

00:57:27.460 Like there's no evidence to even support that it's doing that.

00:57:30.340 If you don't mind, sorry.

00:57:31.400 Whereas you look back to like the, the early era when the right was culturally leading again,

00:57:36.720 if you look back into like, uh, like maybe like the nineties or whatever, you see a very

00:57:42.240 strict system on the right, where if they find out that you've ever cheated, you're out.

00:57:46.220 If they find out that you've got a baby out of wedlock, you're out.

00:57:49.020 If they find out you've sworn too many times, it was very, very purity testing because typically

00:57:54.320 the group that is in the higher level of cultural power will create purity testing because they're

00:57:59.660 better.

00:58:00.260 And so they can kick people out and then the other group absorbs them until that other group

00:58:04.600 gets more power and then it'll be back and forth and back and forth.

00:58:08.340 The reason I am left is because of what I believe.

00:58:11.180 Right.

00:58:11.420 And that's it.

00:58:12.020 So I'm left too.

00:58:13.740 Sure.

00:58:14.480 Except no one in the modern political space will say Tim Pool is left wing.

00:58:19.660 Potentially.

00:58:20.060 I don't know all of your political leanings.

00:58:21.800 So you might be left.

00:58:23.400 So, uh, like Steve Bannon is a better example.

00:58:26.300 So I don't talk about myself.

00:58:27.680 I've argued with him.

00:58:28.500 He's left of me.

00:58:29.680 He said we should be taxing the billionaires and everything.

00:58:31.720 Take their money.

00:58:32.240 They're, they're, they're crooks.

00:58:33.160 They're ripping us off.

00:58:33.820 They're flooding the electoral system.

00:58:35.540 They're buying our politicians.

00:58:36.920 Take everything they got.

00:58:38.200 And I was like, why?

00:58:39.960 And he goes, so they don't have it.

00:58:41.480 And it has nothing to do with, you know, you love saying we're going to fund, but he's

00:58:44.400 like, no, no, no, the billionaires are bad.

00:58:46.060 And then I laughed and I was like, Steve, you would have fit right in at Occupy Wall Street.

00:58:49.840 And he's like, you think?

00:58:50.920 And I was like, that's literally the Occupy Wall Street position.

00:58:54.760 The billionaires are ripping us off.

00:58:56.340 They flooded the zone in politics with money.

00:58:58.300 They don't represent our interests.

00:58:59.720 They're selling out the working class.

00:59:01.600 They've been doing it for a long time.

00:59:02.620 This is why Bernie Sanders was popular.

00:59:06.140 It was a, he literally said in 2015, open borders is a Koch brothers proposal.

00:59:11.280 No open borders.

00:59:12.620 And the World Socialist website called him a nationalist capitalist for wanting secure borders.

00:59:18.340 Left and right has nothing to do with your policy views.

00:59:21.540 Literally nothing.

00:59:22.560 It must.

00:59:23.120 What I'm saying is I don't care what these bullshit assholes say.

00:59:29.900 I don't care.

00:59:30.860 They don't get to rob us of our words and they don't get to rob us of our principles, right?

00:59:34.940 I'm a Christian that lots of Christians don't like.

00:59:37.700 And that doesn't mean that I'm not a Christian.

00:59:39.360 That doesn't mean that I don't love Christianity.

00:59:41.060 And I fight for it like vehemently because I believe in it, despite the fact that most of the group would kick me out.

00:59:47.580 I'm a feminist that most feminists call a pick me.

00:59:50.180 They don't like me very much.

00:59:51.300 But I'm a feminist because I believe in what the actual movement of feminism says.

00:59:56.380 I actually – and guns.

00:59:58.140 I think gun laws are very feminist, right?

00:59:59.800 Right wing.

01:00:00.760 I'm just not right wing because left-leaning policy is strong institutions, regulated economy, right?

01:00:08.720 It is taking care of the vulnerable welfare state.

01:00:13.400 And it is allowing individuals freedoms and liberties to do what they would like to do.

01:00:18.280 Yeah, but I think – I get what you're saying, but I'm going to say it again.

01:00:21.520 Colloquially today, people don't use that word in that way.

01:00:24.340 And you can make the argument –

01:00:26.220 I don't get to take it from me.

01:00:27.220 And so my point is let's just say this.

01:00:30.200 We'll call it tribal left, tribal right.

01:00:32.780 We'll call it team red and team blue.

01:00:34.720 You're team red.

01:00:35.340 I'm team gray.

01:00:36.380 You're actually team red.

01:00:37.840 Scott Alexander writes about this.

01:00:39.880 It's fascinating that –

01:00:42.340 I'm not.

01:00:43.200 I'm not – I don't want to get into Trump bashing here, especially because like I really do want to avoid like doing too much domestic policy conversation as like a Canadian stuff.

01:00:50.540 But like I'm not team red because I think what the conservative purpose is is to preserve and to consecrate and conserve tradition and values and constitution, which like made us in the past so great.

01:01:07.100 And the point of the left is to progress us and push us forward.

01:01:10.620 And I want to do that.

01:01:12.200 I want to push us forward.

01:01:13.540 That's the right.

01:01:14.420 It's not.

01:01:14.980 That's the colloquial right.

01:01:15.660 Like 9 million Obama voters in 2016 voted for Donald Trump and one of the big reasons was that Donald Trump went on stage at the RNC and unfurled a pride flag to thunderous applause.

01:01:28.840 Donald Trump came into the Republican Party and pushed this political faction in a progressive direction.

01:01:37.520 He's a moderate.

01:01:38.920 Even Vox called him a moderate.

01:01:39.980 You've got many drag and transgender Trump supporters.

01:01:45.660 Donald Trump said on the issue of gay marriage.

01:01:47.400 Not a fan of any of that.

01:01:49.120 Donald Trump made it so that trans people have to have M and F on their passports.

01:01:53.580 So now most trans people cannot go internationally anywhere where they don't appear as like an M on their passport.

01:02:00.260 And?

01:02:00.760 That's just not – that's dangerous for trans people.

01:02:03.800 What is?

01:02:04.100 If you want to do – I'm running into this with a friend right now who tries to do war correspondence in countries that don't like trans people.

01:02:12.300 She in every way is a woman.

01:02:15.680 Nobody would look at her and think that that person should walk into a male bathroom.

01:02:19.520 But because she's trans, she has an M on her passport and she now cannot go into multiple very conservative countries because of threats to her life.

01:02:27.820 Well, to be fair, you couldn't in the first place.

01:02:30.720 He'd be under threat if they went anyways.

01:02:33.600 No, she wouldn't because most people – first of all, she's not – she was not super out about her transness.

01:02:38.380 Most people never knew at all.

01:02:40.300 And she has gone into these countries numerous of times in the past.

01:02:43.620 She can't anymore at all because of this passport change.

01:02:47.040 That isn't helping trans people.

01:02:49.160 That is fundamentally –

01:02:49.780 That just seems like a self-inflicted –

01:02:51.360 But regardless –

01:02:52.520 How is it self-inflicted at all?

01:02:53.880 I mean you're choosing to go to those zones.

01:02:55.980 She's a war correspondent as her career.

01:02:58.100 Yes, she goes to Iraq, but she's always gone to Iraq.

01:03:00.580 You know, I'll concede this is a lefty position and it is – I would refer to as – I don't know what's the right way to describe this – farcical, fantastical.

01:03:11.060 I did conflict reporting.

01:03:14.380 I didn't go to any active war zones.

01:03:15.440 I went to civil war and like conflict and crisis and disaster zones.

01:03:18.740 And it was always fascinating to me because of this political correctness reality, especially pertaining to HR and stuff.

01:03:24.880 The story that I usually tell is I was doing what's called heat training.

01:03:29.180 It's redundant.

01:03:30.000 Heat includes the word training.

01:03:31.620 Hostile environment action training.

01:03:34.000 And they couldn't actually tell the women not to go to these zones and prepare them for what happens to women in war zones because they'd get sued if they did.

01:03:43.320 And so someone asked this former MI6 guy, should women who go into conflict zones be concerned about rape?

01:03:50.620 And he went, men get raped.

01:03:54.820 Men get raped.

01:03:56.480 And, you know, anyway, so moving on, because he literally couldn't say if you're a woman and you go to a war zone and you're captured, you'll be mercilessly raped and sold into slavery.

01:04:05.180 And if you're a man, you probably won't be.

01:04:06.640 You'll be killed.

01:04:07.320 Because if he did, that would be sexual discrimination in a work environment because this is a contracted company for insurance providers and media outlets.

01:04:14.280 He's not allowed to say these things.

01:04:16.180 So stupid.

01:04:16.740 The idea that a trans person thinks they have a right to go to a conflict zone and, oh, heavens, me and my passport.

01:04:21.580 Dude, you die.

01:04:23.480 You go to conflict zones.

01:04:24.960 You assume the risks of who you are and what you are.

01:04:27.840 And this idea that you are entitled to some special privilege to go to a foreign country where you may be killed in any circumstance is laughably insane.

01:04:34.060 What's the benefit of changing any of these passport things except for being me?

01:04:36.920 In 1993, there was a law passed in the United States because forever, when medical testing was done for drugs, they did not do it on women.

01:04:46.740 And so when women would go to the hospital with pain, they'd say, take this painkiller.

01:04:50.740 And the woman would say, it hurts.

01:04:52.080 And they go, women are such fucking babies.

01:04:54.120 And then they were like, hey, maybe drugs work differently on men and women due to physiology.

01:04:58.820 So they passed a law saying, from now on, medical research has to be done on both men and women because we are just kind of realizing the drugs work differently on women.

01:05:08.660 So if someone, considering men and women have different organs, quite literally, there's a reason for why we designate your gender.

01:05:15.840 On your passport?

01:05:17.300 It's an ID.

01:05:18.800 Why on my passport does it need to say for somebody who in every single way, it's like Blair White, look at them and say, it looks like a woman.

01:05:28.300 Are women allowed to walk around outside in Islamic nations without a man?

01:05:33.040 I was going to say with a man and usually covered, yes.

01:05:35.560 So with a man.

01:05:36.220 So if a female decides to get a visa to—

01:05:40.280 Do you think that Blair White could walk around in Islamic countries without a man because they'd be like, well, she's trans?

01:05:45.580 No, of course not, right?

01:05:46.500 Of course not.

01:05:46.880 So the war correspondent is already going—

01:05:48.680 And so why do you think you have a right to subvert the laws of a foreign nation that has invited you into their country?

01:05:52.160 How is it subverting the laws?

01:05:53.540 Lying to subvert their laws, which have specific gendered laws.

01:05:56.620 You say, I should have a government document that lies so I can break the law in that country.

01:06:01.340 It just doesn't make any sense to me.

01:06:03.220 The laws that they would be breaking is that if Blair White has M on their passport, I guess Blair should be walking around without head coverings and wearing, like, keffia and not having a person, which they would kill her for.

01:06:14.940 Right.

01:06:15.340 Because they would see a woman.

01:06:16.980 What right do you have to someone else's nation? I don't understand.

01:06:19.040 This isn't about a right. This is about your own country granting you the ability to exist and perform in the way that every single person is going to treat you.

01:06:26.000 We're talking specifically about your friend who wants to go to conflict zones in foreign countries and lie to their government to get privy to access.

01:06:32.720 You have the right to go and do your work.

01:06:35.540 You do not have a right to someone else's nation. They grant you a privilege to enter under a visa.

01:06:40.040 Sure. But the issue is that you're making it seem like I would grant you that if it was the other nations getting mad at America, being like, put M on trans passports.

01:06:48.820 But that's not what happened. Trump made the decision himself, unrelated to any external pressures.

01:06:54.500 I'm not even sure why.

01:06:55.780 You said they could be killed.

01:06:56.720 They could be killed.

01:06:57.940 Why? Would the government take action against this person?

01:07:00.880 They probably would get in major trouble at the border at all.

01:07:04.940 Agreed.

01:07:05.260 So you're asking the U.S. government to produce a false document to lie to a foreign government to get a visa.

01:07:09.700 Are you saying that it was a false document before, that the government was just lying this entire time?

01:07:13.400 If you're a man and they put female on your passport, they're lying.

01:07:15.620 If you put gender and put woman, isn't that fine?

01:07:18.500 There's no W. It's male or female. Those are sexes. It's biology.

01:07:21.820 Sure, but couldn't we just update the passport to be gender?

01:07:25.280 No.

01:07:25.980 Why not?

01:07:26.520 Because we're identifying a biological structure of human beings for a purpose because different laws-

01:07:30.320 On the passport?

01:07:31.280 Indeed. It's an ID.

01:07:32.240 And we have international treaties with foreign nations because they have different laws than us.

01:07:35.580 This idea that Americans get to go and do whatever they want, whatever they want, is so stupid.

01:07:39.460 That's not what I'm advocating for.

01:07:40.960 You think an American male should be able to get a passport that says they're a female so they can enter a country where it's illegal and do things that are otherwise illegal?

01:07:48.100 I think that the idea that, like, you were basically saying that Trump is pro-trans in every way.

01:07:53.880 I didn't say he was pro-trans.

01:07:55.360 You said that he was very moderate.

01:07:56.560 A moderate on the issue.

01:07:57.220 Yeah, exactly. And I said, he immediately did something that actually has security and life threats against your civilians.

01:08:04.760 You know what the American government has responsibility for? Protecting its citizens.

01:08:09.220 What does that have to do with entering a foreign country under sovereign jurisdiction?

01:08:13.580 Because you're still an American citizen that the government has a procedure to protect.

01:08:17.420 So if that trans person goes, you know what, I'll embrace that.

01:08:21.840 Larry White goes, it should say M on my passport.

01:08:24.460 And then goes in, does the American government have to go rescue her when she inevitably gets attacked and assaulted?

01:08:29.700 Or does she just have to give up on her career as a war correspondent?

01:08:32.420 Yes, you do. You're not entitled to these things. This is weird.

01:08:35.540 It's such a wild thing for you to say.

01:08:37.400 It's totally chill that the American government can just be like, nah, you're not allowed to do your career anymore.

01:08:42.240 I think you're lying.

01:08:43.240 I'm not lying.

01:08:43.920 You think Americans should have a right to commit crimes in other countries, yes or no?

01:08:47.420 That's not what I've said.

01:08:48.240 I'm not saying you are, but is the answer no?

01:08:50.400 No.

01:08:51.000 So Americans should not be able to break the law in other countries?

01:08:53.700 Correct.

01:08:54.260 Even when those laws are bullshit?

01:08:56.620 By and large. And the American government should protect you when you do it.

01:08:59.440 Don't go to, where is it, like Dubai?

01:09:02.400 Like if a woman gets raped in Dubai, you go to prison.

01:09:05.080 Okay. So is it illegal for women to walk around in these countries?

01:09:12.720 It is, right?

01:09:14.340 Yeah, without the male and et cetera, et cetera, yes.

01:09:16.600 So if a female dresses up like a man and takes hormones to mask to the government, like let's

01:09:22.660 say a woman in Saudi Arabia starts illicitly taking testosterone to appear like a man to

01:09:27.660 go around, they would get in trouble for that, wouldn't they?

01:09:29.640 Probably not if they passed well enough because nobody would know.

01:09:31.820 No, no, no.

01:09:32.040 I'm saying when they got caught, it's a crime.

01:09:35.040 It is illegal to do.

01:09:36.060 Because they're trans, yeah.

01:09:37.440 So I don't understand how you're arguing.

01:09:39.440 It's illegal to be trans.

01:09:39.760 You're basically saying that trans people just shouldn't go where they're not, where

01:09:42.800 it's illegal for them to exist.

01:09:43.980 That's what you're saying.

01:09:44.500 Why would you?

01:09:47.180 Well, hold on a minute.

01:09:47.780 If there's any reason that you might want to do war correspondence, what do you mean?

01:09:51.400 Do you recognize that war correspondence can die?

01:09:53.840 Yeah.

01:09:54.680 So I don't understand what your point is.

01:09:56.700 My point is that you should be allowed-

01:09:57.480 People have a right to go to foreign war zones without the risk of death and they should be

01:10:01.160 able to-

01:10:01.360 That's not what I'm advocating for.

01:10:02.560 They have a right to be able to go and their government shouldn't be immediately outing

01:10:05.620 that to make it more dangerous.

01:10:07.080 You think people have a right to go to any country they want?

01:10:09.500 Assuming that the government approves their visa, et cetera, et cetera.

01:10:12.860 Yet, not right.

01:10:14.100 I agree.

01:10:14.860 I agree.

01:10:15.140 If they approve their visa, right?

01:10:15.940 They had the liberty to go, I should say.

01:10:17.540 A right is probably the wrong word.

01:10:18.460 Assuming that foreign government says we will grant you the visa.

01:10:20.680 Yeah, the liberty to.

01:10:21.500 Do people have a right to lie on their visa applications?

01:10:23.440 No, but the issue is that before, the government didn't view that it was a lie.

01:10:27.020 And now they do.

01:10:27.520 Well, it is.

01:10:28.200 Because we're not talking about gender on passports.

01:10:29.780 You agree with that.

01:10:30.260 We're talking about biological sex.

01:10:31.320 I'm advocating that essentially you probably should allow somebody, like Blair White-

01:10:35.760 Different argument.

01:10:36.540 You are upset that Donald Trump said you have to have your biological sex on the passport.

01:10:39.960 He undid something because it was already done.

01:10:41.560 Because they were putting fake sexes on passports.

01:10:45.180 Essentially, yeah.

01:10:45.800 Which would have been better if they did gender and said, I agree.

01:10:48.440 Okay, so then the issue is, which this is where the contention is, you have a friend,

01:10:53.540 who wants a false biological sex listed on their passport.

01:10:56.560 Wants their passport not to change.

01:10:57.020 So they can defraud a foreign country into entering.

01:11:00.620 Not really.

01:11:01.360 I want them to be able to have the liberty to go there and that the moment that they go there,

01:11:05.540 they won't-

01:11:05.920 The liberty to go there.

01:11:06.780 The liberty to go there.

01:11:07.780 At the permission of the government.

01:11:09.140 Both of them.

01:11:09.360 Who expects you to tell the truth on things like what your biological sex is.

01:11:12.100 For example, if your government just agrees that essentially you perform as a woman and

01:11:14.920 they're willing to give you an F so that you can enter spaces safely and walk around and

01:11:18.320 not be attacked for just how you appear, yes.

01:11:20.660 Do you think countries like the Emirates and Dubai appreciate the fact that people are lying

01:11:25.140 about their gender to bypass-

01:11:26.560 Probably not.

01:11:27.380 Probably not.

01:11:28.000 I just don't really-

01:11:28.520 I don't-

01:11:28.980 I don't care about like-

01:11:30.080 This is American exceptionalism.

01:11:31.640 This is like, American citizens can present false paperwork to foreign countries to get access

01:11:35.840 to their nation.

01:11:36.100 It's not false paperwork or the government verifies it.

01:11:38.800 It is.

01:11:39.480 It's not.

01:11:39.960 So when the government says it, it's true?

01:11:42.100 On the passport, fundamentally-

01:11:43.420 If the government asserts something, it's a fact, is that-

01:11:45.200 That's not what I've said.

01:11:46.040 And it's not true.

01:11:46.820 A lot-

01:11:47.120 A government can lie.

01:11:48.080 Well, Tim, do you want to engage with what I'm saying or do you want to create a version

01:11:50.960 of-

01:11:51.360 I think you're lying.

01:11:51.660 I'm not lying.

01:11:52.680 I'm-

01:11:52.920 An individual has no right to a foreign country.

01:11:55.100 Period.

01:11:55.560 I've never said that they have a right.

01:11:56.600 They have a liberty to it.

01:11:57.680 A liberty to what?

01:11:58.960 To apply to go there.

01:12:00.340 And is lying to that government okay?

01:12:03.220 It's not lying if your government is willing to agree that essentially you can be-

01:12:06.280 Are males females?

01:12:07.640 No, they're not.

01:12:08.660 Okay, so if a male says, I'm female, is that a lie?

01:12:11.220 Uh, yes.

01:12:12.620 So if a person applies for a passport to the government who is male and says, I'm female,

01:12:16.100 is he lying?

01:12:16.760 It depends on if the government is willing to allow female to include woman.

01:12:20.000 Woman looking.

01:12:20.840 And if-

01:12:20.980 I'm talking about sexes, not genders.

01:12:22.500 Yeah, and if the government-

01:12:23.260 Is it a lie for a man?

01:12:24.760 I'm answering you.

01:12:26.280 I'm answering you.

01:12:27.040 Tim, Tim, you have to let me finish.

01:12:28.540 You have to let me-

01:12:29.580 Well, the issue is you have to let me talk, right?

01:12:31.840 I'm engaging with you in exceptionally good faith.

01:12:34.220 This is why men are leaving a lie.

01:12:35.080 I'm answering your questions directly, and I'm not pivoting away from them.

01:12:38.180 You are.

01:12:38.600 You just don't like my answers, which is totally okay.

01:12:40.660 A male who says I'm female is lying.

01:12:43.620 Because we're talking about biological sex.

01:12:45.720 Yes.

01:12:46.400 So if a male goes to the Saudi government and says, I'm a female, he lied, correct?

01:12:51.380 Yes.

01:12:52.060 Okay.

01:12:52.740 Do you think people have a right to lie to foreign governments to get visas?

01:12:57.020 To get visas?

01:12:58.080 Uh, not usually.

01:13:00.640 I'm sure there's some exceptions that I might be okay with it.

01:13:03.340 That you can lie to a foreign government to get a visa?

01:13:04.860 Yeah.

01:13:05.100 So for example, if you like, I think a lot of people lie to North Korea on their visas.

01:13:09.180 It's like what they're doing, who are helping like smuggle in information and like helping

01:13:13.060 freeing North Koreans, for an example.

01:13:14.940 So like-

01:13:15.860 Sure.

01:13:16.040 To be fair, we're talking about like subterfusion.

01:13:18.000 Actually, I shouldn't say anyone who does this, right?

01:13:19.580 But there are people who do this to like really extremist regimes like North Korea.

01:13:23.940 In that case, they're lying on their visa.

01:13:25.840 But I'm kind of okay with it, right?

01:13:29.040 Because they're trying to help the North Koreans, right?

01:13:31.160 So in this case, if you've got a country-

01:13:33.300 So it's an adversarial nation.

01:13:35.100 Yep.

01:13:35.260 And we have-

01:13:35.920 So if you've got a country that looks at trans people and says that they don't exist,

01:13:39.400 and there is no way for Blair to enter safely without us killing her, I'm okay lying a little

01:13:44.800 bit to that country so that Blair can enter safely and do her job.

01:13:48.220 And the government should aid that lie.

01:13:50.940 Well, the lie would be-

01:13:53.120 The issue is that the lie depends on how the government's determining like what qualifies

01:13:57.740 as F.

01:13:58.140 If they're allowing basically woman performing people to qualify as F for the sake of a

01:14:02.800 passport, it's not really a lie.

01:14:04.440 I think this is a really great example of why young men are leaving the left.

01:14:08.160 Because I'll just give you my personal feelings, which just how I interpret this moment right

01:14:14.480 now.

01:14:14.840 Sure.

01:14:15.980 Your statements are illogical.

01:14:17.700 They're not.

01:14:18.180 They're just not face valid.

01:14:19.060 They are.

01:14:19.560 They're not face valid, right?

01:14:21.020 You know what that means?

01:14:21.800 You've made a claim that you've backtracked a little bit.

01:14:25.700 When you fluttered between gender and sex, you then said that we should change passwords

01:14:29.680 to be gender, not sex.

01:14:31.040 You acknowledge that sex is different.

01:14:32.520 Yeah.

01:14:32.820 I shouldn't have baked in extra arguments.

01:14:34.420 You've asserted an entitlement to lie to foreign governments for access to their countries.

01:14:38.460 To some degree, yeah.

01:14:39.420 You agreed to that though, right?

01:14:41.200 So, no, I didn't.

01:14:42.260 Yeah, you said, yeah, there are certain situations that you're going to lie.

01:14:43.760 I was acknowledging what you had said about people lying to get into North Korea.

01:14:46.620 So you don't think that people should lie to get into North Korea to help aid those

01:14:50.340 people in freeing themselves from the extreme oppression that North Koreans experience?

01:14:54.560 You think it's bad when humanitarians-

01:14:57.440 It wouldn't be morally bad, but it would be wrong.

01:14:59.820 Yeah, I mean, they shouldn't try to do-

01:15:02.080 I mean, it's a question of the sovereignty of nations.

01:15:06.180 I don't like North Korea.

01:15:08.220 Shouldn't America be like, hey, North Korea, just a heads up, these people?

01:15:12.180 Careful, they're not entering just to do tourism.

01:15:15.000 They actually want to help your people.

01:15:15.640 I think if we have treaties with nations we are not actively at war with, we should do

01:15:19.420 our best to adhere to them.

01:15:21.120 And so the question of international treaties pertaining to visas, the idea that the U.S.

01:15:25.740 government would permit people to lie on their passports, it's a weird thing to advocate

01:15:29.360 for.

01:15:30.420 Sure.

01:15:31.000 The issue is that, again, this is why-

01:15:33.220 Why lie on your passport?

01:15:33.960 I don't understand.

01:15:34.700 Why insist on having biology on your passport?

01:15:37.220 Why not have gender?

01:15:38.220 Because there are laws in certain nations pertaining-

01:15:39.940 Why not have both?

01:15:41.640 Because it's a redundancy?

01:15:42.840 It's meaningless?

01:15:43.680 It's not redundant.

01:15:44.320 So you'd put, I'm a male woman?

01:15:45.880 Well, Blair White-

01:15:47.100 What is a woman?

01:15:48.280 What is a woman?

01:15:49.160 It is a performance.

01:15:50.860 What does that mean?

01:15:51.640 It means that you appear woman.

01:15:53.220 It's like porn.

01:15:53.740 What's porn?

01:15:54.260 Well, you see it when you know it, right?

01:15:55.680 If you look at it, that's porn, that naked image, it's not porn.

01:16:00.360 Why can't liberals answer this question?

01:16:01.860 Because the, because, do you want me to go why?

01:16:04.780 Because they're scared to?

01:16:05.800 No, because of, we went into it before.

01:16:07.460 A woman is an adult human female?

01:16:08.920 No, not at all.

01:16:10.180 The issue is that it's Sorites Paradox.

01:16:11.920 Do you know what Sorites Paradox is?

01:16:13.800 Okay.

01:16:14.420 I've got a thousand grains of sand.

01:16:17.220 And I say, that's a heap of sand.

01:16:18.760 Would you agree with me?

01:16:19.480 Oh, I know this.

01:16:20.060 Yes, I use it all the time.

01:16:20.960 Okay.

01:16:21.360 How many grains of sand makes a heap?

01:16:23.060 Exactly.

01:16:23.640 Right?

01:16:24.120 And the line there is hard to know.

01:16:26.700 Right?

01:16:27.140 It's really not.

01:16:28.280 So Blair White is a man.

01:16:30.140 Is a man.

01:16:30.460 And Blair White will tell you Blair White is a man.

01:16:32.120 Okay.

01:16:33.080 That's fine for Blair White.

01:16:34.140 Blair White literally makes videos where-

01:16:35.860 You want Blair White to walk into male bathrooms?

01:16:38.820 No.

01:16:39.700 Oh.

01:16:40.660 No.

01:16:41.160 Why not?

01:16:41.920 Well, my position on this is like, Blair White walking into a men's room will create a weird

01:16:46.600 social chaos, and I'm not really concerned about Blair-

01:16:49.280 What kind of social chaos would it make?

01:16:51.160 So for men, it's a bit different for women.

01:16:53.140 Right?

01:16:53.480 And so the issue is not specifically about Blair White.

01:16:55.380 It's about Buck Angel, a better example.

01:16:56.800 Sure.

01:16:57.200 Buck Angel walking into a women's room is going to start a fight.

01:17:00.340 And so we-

01:17:01.700 Why?

01:17:01.860 Because Buck Angel is a masculine, bicycle-mustached, male-looking individual.

01:17:08.320 So Hulk Hogan with a vagina is essentially like more of a woman-

01:17:13.320 Should be using the men's room.

01:17:14.680 Literally.

01:17:15.220 Hulk Hogan with a vagina is a literal woman.

01:17:17.700 Hulk Hogan with a vagina should be using the men's room?

01:17:20.240 Yes.

01:17:21.080 Gotcha.

01:17:21.480 Why?

01:17:22.600 Social order.

01:17:23.520 Because he-

01:17:24.400 What's the social piece?

01:17:25.580 The social piece is that people make judgments based on appearance.

01:17:28.980 And there have been instances-

01:17:31.300 There was one story out of McDonald's where a lesbian female was pulled from the women's

01:17:35.660 bathroom, and the police kept calling her sir, despite the fact it was a literal biological

01:17:39.760 female, because of this controversy and conundrum.

01:17:42.960 Yeah.

01:17:43.440 So I don't have this staunch, right, conservative, you know, make everybody use their biological

01:17:48.200 gender space, because that will just be chaotic.

01:17:52.280 That being said, there's no simple answer.

01:17:54.080 Why?

01:17:54.240 Because a male who was exposing himself to children went into a spa in California, in

01:18:01.780 San Francisco, exposed himself to women and children, and when a woman complained, they

01:18:06.680 said, the assumption is this person is trans and we can't intervene.

01:18:10.020 When in fact, it wasn't a trans person, it was a male who was exposing himself to children.

01:18:14.220 Right.

01:18:14.700 So therein lies a much greater problem.

01:18:17.020 On the surface, I think the simple answer is, I don't see how any guy's going to appreciate

01:18:20.860 Buck Angel walking into a lady's room with their wife.

01:18:22.440 Exactly, because people make judgments on appearance.

01:18:24.760 Indeed.

01:18:25.200 And those judgments on appearance that we make is that performance.

01:18:27.840 And that has nothing to do with your entitlement to government documents nor entering foreign

01:18:30.560 countries.

01:18:30.580 I'm not getting there yet, right?

01:18:31.740 If we make judgments based on appearance, you look at me and how do you know I'm a woman?

01:18:36.740 Did you check my passport?

01:18:37.920 No.

01:18:38.420 Did you check my vagina?

01:18:40.140 Nope.

01:18:40.540 I could have a penis for all we know.

01:18:42.240 Probably not.

01:18:43.140 I could.

01:18:44.700 Why are you assuming I'm a woman?

01:18:47.480 Well, you have a woman's body.

01:18:50.440 Right.

01:18:50.800 Yes, I perform very woman.

01:18:52.440 Let's roll.

01:18:53.620 Your skin.

01:18:55.020 Men have thicker skin and it's pretty, it's usually, you notice the brow ridge, your facial

01:18:59.340 features, the structure of your shoulders compared to your hips, the fact that you have

01:19:04.940 breasts.

01:19:05.640 These are all probably a woman.

01:19:07.820 Right.

01:19:08.220 So if a woman gets breast implants, is she more or less a woman?

01:19:11.780 Neither.

01:19:12.600 Okay.

01:19:12.800 But she appears more feminine, right?

01:19:15.280 No.

01:19:15.820 Yeah.

01:19:15.960 Like a super, super busty woman is obviously going to be more hyper femme.

01:19:19.700 I don't agree.

01:19:20.820 This is just-

01:19:21.440 I don't think your breast size makes you more or less of a woman.

01:19:23.620 I said femme at this point.

01:19:25.220 You know, I don't think femininity is reduced to like the size of a woman's breasts because

01:19:28.940 then morbidly obese women will be more feminine.

01:19:30.560 That doesn't make sense.

01:19:31.600 Well, it's more, again, it's performance, right?

01:19:34.260 Like this is why if you search for porn and you look up like super like hyper feminine

01:19:39.100 or hyper feminine like porn, you're going to get women with huge tits and a huge ass.

01:19:43.800 This is obviously true.

01:19:45.020 These are feminine traits, right?

01:19:46.500 Men don't typically have big tits and big asses.

01:19:48.780 So creating subcategories to define something doesn't change that woman and man are typically

01:19:53.780 used to define adult human, male or female.

01:19:55.820 Yeah.

01:19:55.980 I would say like 90% of the time.

01:19:57.900 And the problem is that we have to legislate for like also the 10%.

01:20:00.840 And so when it works, 90%-

01:20:02.480 10%.

01:20:02.920 Sure.

01:20:04.140 It's probably less than that.

01:20:05.420 Substantially less.

01:20:05.940 Sure.

01:20:06.140 But we still have to legislate for it.

01:20:08.260 Yeah.

01:20:08.700 Because they're our citizens, right?

01:20:09.620 We can't just be like, eh, fuck you guys.

01:20:11.860 You're not our problem.

01:20:12.600 Actually, the argument from trans people is it was better off before any of this was

01:20:15.400 happening when trans people just used bathrooms.

01:20:16.900 I don't know what I'm noticing.

01:20:18.020 I agree that the trans movement-

01:20:19.940 Legislating for it actually caused more problems.

01:20:22.480 Well, legislating for it in the way that the trans movement has legislated for it has

01:20:26.320 caused problems, right?

01:20:27.400 And you know, they were trying to get it removed from the DSM-5 as well.

01:20:30.280 I believe so, yes.

01:20:31.320 Which would mean they can no longer get medical treatment or prescriptions for it.

01:20:34.040 Look, here.

01:20:34.700 If you want to have somebody who's very critical of the trans group and thinks they're full

01:20:38.400 of retards, you found the girl, right?

01:20:40.600 I think there's lots of issues with trans advocacy.

01:20:42.860 But I'm not talking about that.

01:20:44.120 I'm not talking about the group.

01:20:45.780 I'm talking about the idea, which is what I'm wanting to engage in.

01:20:48.440 People make judgments on appearance.

01:20:49.820 Body dysmorphic disorder.

01:20:51.300 What about it?

01:20:52.080 Should people have a right to get their hands chopped off?

01:20:55.140 It depends on if there's evidence that it benefits them.

01:20:58.480 Well, how would it benefit someone to cut their hand off?

01:21:00.160 Well, how would it benefit somebody to transition?

01:21:02.360 The same.

01:21:02.660 It doesn't.

01:21:03.360 It does.

01:21:04.080 It literally doesn't.

01:21:05.820 Suicide ideation is-

01:21:07.820 Suicide ideality is-

01:21:09.140 Actually, to quote Chase Strangio, suicide attempts and suicide do not decrease from transition.

01:21:15.940 Chase Strangio is not a strong one to-

01:21:17.460 Well, the ACLU's lawyer to the Supreme Court is the best example I'm going to come up with.

01:21:21.540 Sure, but you probably shouldn't use a lawyer when you're talking about trans research sites.

01:21:26.140 A lawyer who's trying to convince the Supreme Court is not the better example?

01:21:29.760 No, I would say researchers are, right?

01:21:32.060 We should go to the actual data.

01:21:33.640 I don't care what lawyers-

01:21:34.760 Desistance rates are in the majority.

01:21:37.420 Desistance rates for under 18 are, right?

01:21:39.660 The issue is that if you look at data-

01:21:41.320 If you're over 18, do whatever you want, I don't care.

01:21:42.440 Do you want me to tell you about the data?

01:21:43.960 Sure.

01:21:44.380 Okay, so there's tons of research on specifically adults,

01:21:46.820 and this was before it was super, super, super politicized

01:21:49.700 because right now, most of the data that you look at for trans science

01:21:52.940 between like 2018 to about 2024 is politicized on both sides.

01:21:57.400 There's groups that are very anti-trans doing science and it's garbage

01:21:59.620 and there's sides that are very pro-trans and they do science and it's also garbage.

01:22:03.340 And so the issue is that we have like almost two decades now of science that we can't rely on.

01:22:07.900 So we have to look back at like the earlier stuff

01:22:09.740 and be really scrupulous about the methodology specifically.

01:22:13.300 And so one of, in the most methodologically sound studies, it's an RCT, it's longitudinal,

01:22:19.320 it is a brilliant study.

01:22:21.880 I believe it came out in 2003.

01:22:23.980 I could be incorrect, but it looks at adults over time who transitioned or did not transition,

01:22:30.520 right?

01:22:30.840 And all the effects in sequelae.

01:22:32.960 And when you look at the adults who transitioned over the like 10-year period that they were studying them for,

01:22:38.940 there was a 60% reduction in attempt rate.

01:22:42.180 And by attempt rate, I mean medically diagnosed, confirmed at a hospital attempt rate, which is huge.

01:22:48.360 Yeah, but hold on.

01:22:49.600 I don't care.

01:22:50.620 Why?

01:22:51.060 I'm talking about kids.

01:22:52.560 I'm talking about adults.

01:22:53.640 I know, but I don't care what adults do.

01:22:54.880 But when we're talking about passports and like traveling and all this sort of stuff.

01:22:57.780 That's government treaties and trying to get access to a foreign nation,

01:22:59.820 which you have no right to attain.

01:23:01.120 Sure, that's one argument that you're making.

01:23:04.720 But when I'm talking about trans people, I'm-

01:23:07.700 Use the bathroom of which you most likely socially align visually.

01:23:10.880 Yeah, by and large, we should also allow their passports to not like immediately out them as a group

01:23:15.140 that a culture that we believe is hateful and we don't agree with.

01:23:19.180 Who's checking American passports on the fly?

01:23:20.780 Like are you going to bars and being like, let me see your passport?

01:23:22.500 When you go through TSA-

01:23:23.840 That's, that's, that, okay, like is a TSA agent going to like lynch a trans person going to Omaha?

01:23:29.700 Not an American.

01:23:30.280 Who cares?

01:23:30.520 I'm talking about Iranians.

01:23:32.160 Why are you going to Iran?

01:23:33.520 Because you have the liberty to do so.

01:23:35.460 Not if Iran says no.

01:23:37.320 Again, my issue isn't that Iran can or cannot say no.

01:23:41.260 My issue is the government, your government, outing you in a dangerous way for no other

01:23:45.780 reason than petty jabs because trans people went too far with policy.

01:23:49.440 I think that's bad politicking.

01:23:51.520 I think there's no reason-

01:23:52.960 I think there's political ramifications internationally for us having false passports.

01:23:58.420 It's, again, if the government will create a way that you can basically allow trans people

01:24:03.420 to have a passport that looks in the way that they are presenting so that they don't get in

01:24:07.300 trouble in countries that will throw trans people off of buildings, I think it's good for your

01:24:11.400 government to try-

01:24:11.900 Why would you go to a country that they're going to throw you off a building?

01:24:15.360 So, what do you mean?

01:24:16.800 What is this question?

01:24:18.000 Why would women go to any country ever that they care about and do like work to like help the poor?

01:24:23.320 I don't know because they want to.

01:24:24.980 They have the liberty to do so.

01:24:26.160 Right.

01:24:26.340 And so, this is why I asked, why would you do it?

01:24:29.460 You gave an answer.

01:24:30.280 Liberty.

01:24:30.620 And my point is, sometimes you die, right?

01:24:32.520 The government shouldn't be outing you to kill you.

01:24:34.600 I don't care if a trans person goes to Iran and then in the process of being in Iran,

01:24:38.940 they die as a war correspondent.

01:24:40.440 I care about your own government outing you and setting you up to be killed for no other

01:24:44.360 reasons than petty jabs.

01:24:45.500 And I'm going to say, once again, the reason why I think young men are leaving the left is

01:24:48.640 that this sounds like sophistry.

01:24:49.780 So, again, let's talk about face validity.

01:24:51.540 Do you know what face validity is?

01:24:52.560 Explain.

01:24:53.220 Okay.

01:24:53.480 Face validity is this process in science.

01:24:54.960 So, when we do science, we look for things.

01:24:57.360 So, like when we test whether or not I'm testing depression, there's validity measures that

01:25:01.940 we apply to ensure that I'm capturing depression and not something else like anxiety, right?

01:25:08.520 One of the ways that we can test for whether or not we're capturing a construct is called

01:25:13.120 face validity.

01:25:14.080 And all that means is it appears good.

01:25:16.620 And the issue is that the world is so much more complex.

01:25:19.480 Every scientist knows that face validity as a form of validity is garbage.

01:25:23.460 Because I might write an emo measure to test how emo you are, but that doesn't mean that

01:25:29.220 I'm tapping into the emo construct at all.

01:25:31.540 Even though all the questions might sound good and I ask you a bunch about Green Day and

01:25:34.780 all these sorts of things, and I ask you how many black types of like makeups you have.

01:25:39.060 They're not emo.

01:25:40.540 Right.

01:25:41.020 They might be goth, right?

01:25:42.360 They might be...

01:25:43.000 They're pop punk.

01:25:44.200 There you go.

01:25:45.120 Right?

01:25:45.320 They might be something else.

01:25:46.360 I call them cult punk now.

01:25:47.280 So this is why face validity is a really weak thinking system.

01:25:50.880 And my problem with the right and what you said before with men is that you said it's

01:25:55.580 easier to be on the right.

01:25:57.320 And I would say that's a weak answer.

01:25:59.800 Because as a human being, it's not better to take the easy path.

01:26:03.120 You should take the right pathway.

01:26:04.460 No, that's not...

01:26:05.680 That's not a...

01:26:06.700 You called my answer weak, which is nonsensical.

01:26:09.560 It is...

01:26:10.140 You agreed with me that it was easier to be on the right for a man.

01:26:12.340 It's not nonsensical for me to say taking the easier path isn't good.

01:26:15.140 But calling my answer weak is not saying...

01:26:18.040 I didn't say your answer is weak.

01:26:19.080 I said that men who take the easier pathway...

01:26:22.300 Yeah.

01:26:22.540 When I say...

01:26:23.320 When you say it's easier, the weak answer is in, like, essentially, when men say it's

01:26:28.120 just easier to be right.

01:26:29.420 That's weak.

01:26:29.720 It's the weak path.

01:26:30.600 Sure.

01:26:31.600 Yeah.

01:26:32.040 I think if we dive into this, men don't want to live in a world of sophistry.

01:26:37.560 They don't want to be told to say there are five lights through pain of penalty.

01:26:41.620 So when it's easier to be on the right, it's more like if you're on the right and

01:26:45.080 you go to someone and say, you know, that you're gay, most people on the right, not

01:26:49.700 all, are going to be like, I don't need to know that.

01:26:52.200 I don't care.

01:26:52.700 How do you know what's true?

01:26:54.680 Well, that's a good point.

01:26:55.580 You don't.

01:26:56.520 Right.

01:26:56.840 And so what I'm arguing is that...

01:26:58.700 The only thing I know is that I know nothing.

01:27:00.560 Sure.

01:27:01.040 But you know some things, right?

01:27:02.180 And it's good to know that you know...

01:27:03.060 We believe some things.

01:27:04.700 Well, I'm an objectivist when it comes to, like, I'm a science realist, right?

01:27:09.740 I believe that there are things we can discover that are true and will stay true regardless

01:27:13.980 of how people feel about them, right?

01:27:15.480 I think my pencil will fall and that's due to gravity because it's true and it doesn't

01:27:19.540 matter if I'm like, oh, God, please don't do it.

01:27:21.860 Oh, shit.

01:27:22.500 I lost again.

01:27:23.260 We agree on that, but that's a less than one millionth of reality.

01:27:26.840 So arguing that we can understand something basic like...

01:27:30.820 A question I like to ask people is...

01:27:32.820 Gravity is not basic, right?

01:27:34.740 Gravity's sequelae of falling is basic, but we don't even know what causes gravity.

01:27:39.840 Right, right.

01:27:40.100 So if I were to take this phone and whip it as hard as I could at that window, what would

01:27:43.720 happen?

01:27:44.660 I don't know how thick your windows are, but it would at least smash your phone.

01:27:47.120 It might smash your window.

01:27:48.020 That's a great answer because some people say the window would break.

01:27:51.040 I say, actually, you don't know that.

01:27:52.780 The assumption is the window would break because typically hard object thrown at window

01:27:55.660 breaks window.

01:27:56.560 However, it could be a bolt-proof window.

01:27:57.900 So while there are certain things that we can agree on, like if I drop object, it falls because

01:28:02.780 gravity is a thing, most things we assume or believe, but we don't know.

01:28:08.020 So why did I arrive at the right answer when you might have expected me not to?

01:28:11.180 I didn't know.

01:28:11.680 I didn't have an expectation of your right answer.

01:28:13.100 Sure, but why did I arrive at the correct answer if it's interesting?

01:28:15.740 I don't know how thick your window is, but your phone would probably break at least.

01:28:18.360 Higher IQ?

01:28:20.580 Probably not, right?

01:28:22.000 I think...

01:28:22.680 There's probably...

01:28:23.240 For example, Adam Conover is probably not stupid, but I think he says lots of stupid

01:28:28.320 shit, but I...

01:28:29.600 Because he's trying to adhere to a liberal orthodoxy.

01:28:31.560 A question of...

01:28:33.060 Actually, yes, yes, because partisanry defaults your brain to bad thinking strategies, and

01:28:40.520 what I care about, all I care about in my platform is good think, and face validity is

01:28:46.920 not a valid way to determine whether a construct is true or not, because it falls apart the moment

01:28:53.320 you look at the complexities of the world.

01:28:55.100 Which is why I say when you go so hard on this, passports out you, people don't buy it.

01:29:00.400 I don't care.

01:29:01.300 If I explain to them how blitzscaling works as a venture capitalist system, you might

01:29:06.080 be like, that shouldn't work.

01:29:07.900 I don't really care.

01:29:09.220 It's really complicated.

01:29:10.640 It's infinitely complicated.

01:29:11.860 But you sound like Adam Conover is my point.

01:29:13.720 A what?

01:29:14.260 You sound like Adam Conover.

01:29:16.900 No, because I don't deny IQ, and I don't deny science, right?

01:29:19.800 There's no...

01:29:20.360 I don't sound like Adam Conover in any way, other than we might align on trans stuff.

01:29:25.780 The issue is I'm not engaging in science denial.

01:29:27.960 Right, let's try this.

01:29:29.000 The issue of being able to travel to a foreign country is predicated upon the acceptance of

01:29:33.020 that foreign country letting you in.

01:29:34.480 It's their sovereignty.

01:29:35.700 So internally, there really isn't an issue pertaining to your passport saying MF or whatever.

01:29:42.500 I mean, unless you're trying to get a ladies' night discount, which is unconstitutional

01:29:45.360 anyway, and they get sued a million times over for it.

01:29:47.000 But there's very rare circumstances, other than the emotions of the individual, where

01:29:50.420 it matters, except in the medical function, where a doctor needs to know what kind of

01:29:54.020 medicine to prescribe you based on your biology.

01:29:55.640 And how do you know that somebody's female?

01:29:58.980 Are you saying in a medical context?

01:30:01.060 Female.

01:30:01.620 The way that you would define female.

01:30:03.580 I mean, we make assumptions on the surface for the most part, but I fully recognize for

01:30:07.800 someone like Blair, I have no problem saying she and her.

01:30:10.480 Why?

01:30:11.420 Because Blair gives me respect.

01:30:13.960 Yeah, you're a respectful person.

01:30:15.600 And?

01:30:15.760 And Blair returns their respect.

01:30:17.880 It would also be really fucking weird to say he, him, right?

01:30:20.660 No, not really.

01:30:21.480 I mean, Blair has said that she is actually a he and a man.

01:30:24.960 And I think Blair even called her boyfriend gay.

01:30:28.320 And so I'm kind of like, I don't know.

01:30:29.560 Blair's nice, respectful, entertains things logically, and asks me he's a preferred pronoun.

01:30:33.480 I say, okay.

01:30:33.840 We had a drag queen on the show said, I use she.

01:30:35.260 I said, okay, I don't care.

01:30:36.040 Whatever.

01:30:36.520 Sure.

01:30:37.080 People who are disrespectful all call all sorts of weird names.

01:30:39.620 Sure.

01:30:39.780 I'm not asking about people who are like, yeah, I don't expect you to play the same social

01:30:44.340 tit for tat.

01:30:44.880 But this is my point.

01:30:45.900 Conservatives.

01:30:46.460 Who say, actually, one question.

01:30:48.040 Sorry, if I can pause you.

01:30:49.260 I don't know who Blair is.

01:30:50.640 Okay.

01:30:50.780 I'm a random person plucked from the internet, from the world who has never seen the internet.

01:30:55.620 Which pronouns would they guess Blair is?

01:30:58.920 She, her.

01:30:59.640 Why?

01:31:00.320 Because Blair White looks female.

01:31:02.140 Right.

01:31:02.360 And so that looks female piece is something that I think is worth applying a word to,

01:31:07.040 which we call gender.

01:31:08.220 Trans.

01:31:09.420 Gender.

01:31:11.260 Right?

01:31:11.740 Because that's the word that we, you can pick a different word, I suppose.

01:31:16.000 But gender is what we're talking about when we say that somebody performs in such a way.

01:31:20.140 Right?

01:31:20.320 The reason that you know that I'm a woman is because I perform like a woman in every

01:31:24.420 single way.

01:31:25.200 Even though it is possible, technically, that I'm a sneaky XY chromosome haver.

01:31:31.660 So I even have a vagina, but I'm technically XY.

01:31:33.780 Well, there's androgen, I forgot what the actual thing is called, androgen immunity.

01:31:37.100 You familiar with that?

01:31:37.800 Yeah.

01:31:38.000 Some people are born XY, but the testosterone never, has no, they're immune to testosterone.

01:31:43.880 Yeah.

01:31:44.100 So they develop like females.

01:31:46.020 I think the issue largely is just down to why does that matter if someone's ID says their

01:31:49.920 biological sex on it?

01:31:50.940 Because say, for somebody like intersex.

01:31:52.900 Well, intersex, how do you even?

01:31:54.200 Well, intersex actually has that, has the capability to change.

01:31:58.760 What?

01:31:59.600 If you're, if you're birth, like.

01:32:00.760 Yeah, I think they have to pick whenever they're like younger or something like that.

01:32:04.240 They just, they just pick a sex?

01:32:05.860 Yeah.

01:32:06.000 Like, I think they have to, I think they have both and the parents basically have to choose.

01:32:09.620 I'll tell you this.

01:32:10.300 I will grant, I will grant all luxuries afforded to anyone who is legitimately intersex.

01:32:16.360 I have no issue with that.

01:32:17.620 It's a, it's a minority of the population.

01:32:18.980 I don't think we should legislate for the majority for a minority in that way.

01:32:22.840 So by all means, let's say, sure, intersex makes up like 0.017% of the population and

01:32:28.080 let's try to accommodate them.

01:32:29.160 It's unfortunate they ended up in that circumstance.

01:32:30.760 Sure.

01:32:31.080 So like, for example, the Algerian boxer, Amane, right?

01:32:34.540 Everyone insisted that she was trans.

01:32:36.480 Seems like there's no evidence that's come out.

01:32:38.720 It seems likely that she might have some intersex stuff, her testosterone.

01:32:41.480 XY, I think.

01:32:42.660 Yeah.

01:32:42.960 Like her, she might be androgen resistant or something like that.

01:32:45.660 But in all ways, she's like, she's been, she's Algerian, right?

01:32:49.980 They've thought she was a female from birth and Algeria is not exactly gender open, right?

01:32:55.960 When we looked at that situation, the right got really agitated because essentially gender

01:33:02.420 was thrust in their face and it's hard to solve, especially if you won't even, well,

01:33:07.760 they said it was a guy, but it isn't a guy, right?

01:33:10.800 In any way, shape or form.

01:33:12.020 And in fact, insisting she with breasts is a guy.

01:33:15.540 She didn't have breasts.

01:33:16.280 That was the issue.

01:33:17.220 I think that she has like some level.

01:33:18.760 I think most XYs will have some level of mammary development because without testosterone,

01:33:22.340 you often, this is why pedophiles who are on SSRIs often have mammary development.

01:33:26.220 Mammary development is kind of default unless you have androgen to prevent it.

01:33:29.940 I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.

01:33:31.300 I think you're right.

01:33:31.820 That's why like dudes with steroids, when they stop producing testosterone after the

01:33:35.460 effect, they end up growing boobs.

01:33:36.000 They'll get some, some boobies, right?

01:33:37.260 And so she did, she did have breasts.

01:33:39.260 They were probably small.

01:33:40.140 I wouldn't be surprised because she was-

01:33:41.440 Bitched at Bob was his name.

01:33:42.840 Sure.

01:33:43.040 But like Asian women have small tits and that doesn't mean that we're like, that's a man

01:33:45.500 now.

01:33:45.820 That's a man.

01:33:46.240 Otherwise, my argument that more tits equals more women would be true.

01:33:49.840 The issue largely just stems to the, we don't legislate for the, the absolute minority

01:33:55.020 and an intersex person upon discovery, it's like, well, we can't, if you, if, if you don't

01:34:02.940 fit into the category we've provided for the overwhelming majority, then, then maybe

01:34:05.780 a secondary category or something would make, make a lot of sense because if, you know,

01:34:11.240 if someone was born without feet, they're not going to be runners.

01:34:12.900 We don't say like, we're going to give you a robot leg so you can run.

01:34:15.760 That was actually the Oscar Pistorius debate because he didn't have legs.

01:34:19.260 And so they were letting him use these prosthetics that people argued gave an advantage.

01:34:23.980 She argued, didn't, and it was contentious.

01:34:25.800 And then he killed his girlfriend, I think, and got arrested for it.

01:34:28.220 The fair play guy, right?

01:34:29.380 The like big question of fair play.

01:34:31.000 Yeah.

01:34:31.200 I mean, like, I think when it comes to trans women and sports.

01:34:32.300 And that's something I was trying to ask you earlier was sort of that too, what he's

01:34:35.780 kind of touching on is that, well, how can you say that like in this one, like right

01:34:39.740 now you're saying we should basically legislate for the minority, but then earlier you're

01:34:43.660 saying-

01:34:43.700 We always legislate for the minority, just to be clear.

01:34:45.460 But you're saying-

01:34:46.000 Always.

01:34:46.360 Well, we shouldn't be listening to these-

01:34:47.460 By and large, that's what like most judicial criminalities-

01:34:49.160 Yeah, but you're saying earlier, well, we shouldn't be listening to these crazy people that are like

01:34:52.940 on the extreme left and we should be ignoring them and we should be like coming together.

01:34:56.080 Yeah.

01:34:56.360 Like for example, I guess I would say, I'm sorry that the left got so crazy.

01:35:01.300 Wasn't really my doing.

01:35:02.180 I've only been in this industry for three years.

01:35:03.860 I've always fought them.

01:35:05.040 I don't like them.

01:35:06.260 Why are you treating me like I'm them?

01:35:07.920 I'm not a crazy leftist.

01:35:09.760 I'm a reasonable liberal and we are a growing group, a vastly growing group because a lot

01:35:15.280 of people are being like, yeah, progressives are kind of stupid.

01:35:18.820 Like they're a little cringe and I agree.

01:35:20.960 I've been fighting them my entire life.

01:35:22.580 The issue is that I refuse that the alternative has to go, well, if it looks and feels that

01:35:29.200 way, it is that way, except for when I don't want it to be that way.

01:35:31.620 It's like, that's not a satisfying answer.

01:35:33.860 What we're talking about though is the minority.

01:35:36.280 Like there are not tons of Blair Whites and-

01:35:39.780 Yeah, there's not a lot of trans people.

01:35:41.220 I forget his name.

01:35:41.840 Buck Angel.

01:35:42.260 Buck Angel.

01:35:42.560 It looks like that, yeah.

01:35:44.440 That's why they're like a unique case.

01:35:46.560 That's why everybody cites them is because they are the minority.

01:35:49.040 Here's another issue.

01:35:50.140 Let's move on from this.

01:35:51.480 Um, the policies that you've espoused outside of like the transgender issue, many people

01:35:57.020 on the right completely agree with.

01:35:58.420 I agree.

01:35:59.300 And so the issue then becomes reformer versus revolutionary or are you lying?

01:36:03.860 And so when you have, in 2020, I donated the max to Tulsi Gabbard and Andrew Yang and I

01:36:10.680 wanted sane Democrats to kick out the lunatics.

01:36:14.320 Instead, they all stood there and raised their hand about opening the border, decriminalizing

01:36:19.820 crossings, giving healthcare to non-citizens.

01:36:21.520 And I was like, what the fuck is going on?

01:36:23.560 And then they, you know, they basically booted Tulsi Gabbard and she still endorsed Joe Biden.

01:36:29.540 Andrew Yang ended up taking a job at CNN and once again, just trying to pander the left.

01:36:33.620 And so I was like, wow, who am I going to vote for?

01:36:36.400 Donald Trump then came out and said, the DEI stuff needs to be removed from government.

01:36:39.380 I said, hey, I'm for that.

01:36:40.520 He said, no new wars.

01:36:41.660 I said, I'm for that.

01:36:42.780 He said, we're going to set a timeline for withdrawal from Afghanistan.

01:36:45.000 I was like, wow, these are things that I, as a liberal leaning person, my whole life

01:36:49.040 have longed for.

01:36:50.120 I think this is the best chance I have because Joe Biden is lying about Trump's statements.

01:36:54.680 The media is lying about Trump's statements.

01:36:56.700 They're falsely framed what's actually going on.

01:36:59.380 And Joe Biden is the guy who sold contracts, got his brother contracts in Iraq.

01:37:04.940 This is military industrial complex times 10.

01:37:07.180 I'll take Trump.

01:37:08.300 Then you come to 2024 and Donald Trump says, we're going to bring in Tulsi Gabbard,

01:37:12.040 RFK Jr., Elon Musk.

01:37:13.620 We're going to bring in a coalition of liberals to help lead foreign policy and economic decisions

01:37:18.780 and no new wars, blah, blah, blah.

01:37:21.280 We're going to set peace.

01:37:21.920 And I'm like, well, this is the most functionally appropriate thing to select, which I will.

01:37:27.140 But then he lied, right?

01:37:28.140 Like, well, he's like, for example, the Gaza war rollout has exploded under him because

01:37:33.540 essentially the war council was having the brakes pumped on them super hard.

01:37:37.660 I'm not sure how you feel about what does it have to do with like Trump is like Trump being

01:37:42.320 anti-war.

01:37:43.860 He is literally celebrating the idea of basically steamrolling Gaza and displacing all of the

01:37:48.720 citizens.

01:37:49.240 Have you been following the news on this one?

01:37:52.120 Yeah.

01:37:52.680 He recently came out and told Israel he was breaking from them.

01:37:55.100 He doesn't want to be involved in their wars.

01:37:56.580 Do you remember why?

01:37:57.960 Iran.

01:37:58.280 What do you mean Iran?

01:38:00.860 To avoid a war.

01:38:01.820 To avoid a war with Iran.

01:38:03.000 He said, we are going to break.

01:38:03.900 We're going to stop supporting you because you're pushing too hard.

01:38:06.260 Israel said they're going to engage in strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities.

01:38:10.000 And Tulsi Gabbard told Trump, don't do it.

01:38:11.640 And Trump said, we won't.

01:38:12.960 Tulsi Gabbard was excellent.

01:38:14.000 Excellent choice.

01:38:14.760 Man, if we got Kamala Harris in there.

01:38:16.420 Holy shit.

01:38:17.240 And another.

01:38:17.720 I mean, this brings it back to the topic.

01:38:19.740 Why are men leaving?

01:38:20.920 I mean, we don't want to be fighting the wars.

01:38:23.480 I mean, I think we realize.

01:38:24.480 Oh, yeah.

01:38:24.840 Who's going to be sent overseas?

01:38:26.040 I'll just kind of own.

01:38:26.780 I'm not like pro-war because I see war as like the most tragic evil thing.

01:38:29.260 Yeah, I'm not saying you are.

01:38:30.240 I'm just.

01:38:30.740 But I see war as an absolute necessity.

01:38:32.820 I will say, yeah.

01:38:33.620 I think Democrats are more pro-war than they let on.

01:38:36.740 They are pro-war.

01:38:36.880 I agree.

01:38:37.200 They like to do this thing where they're pretending that, oh, we're just, you know, we're just

01:38:41.400 doing our thing here.

01:38:42.240 Yeah, we're nice and sweet.

01:38:43.120 And then really we're fighting three problems.

01:38:44.640 I'll put it this way.

01:38:45.660 As a liberal.

01:38:46.300 I'm a drone striking kid.

01:38:47.340 As a liberal, I see Donald Trump publicly going moderate on the issue of abortion.

01:38:53.000 And he got attacked for it.

01:38:54.840 He did.

01:38:55.640 I see him rejecting DEI, which is a violation of the Civil Rights Act and illegal.

01:39:01.340 And I see him bringing on Tulsi Gabbard for national security, RFK Jr. for health.

01:39:04.940 And I'm like, wow, this is the first time I've actually gotten like liberal administrative

01:39:08.860 policy in the federal government because Obama wasn't doing it.

01:39:12.280 Obama was blowing up children overseas.

01:39:13.880 So, so, so I, I, I've said numerous times, Obama should be criminally investigated, impeached

01:39:19.360 and charged for the killing of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.

01:39:21.220 And Donald Trump should be investigated for the killing of Abdulrahman al-Awlaki's seven

01:39:24.320 year old sister.

01:39:25.580 But Donald Trump as an administration is eclectic with much more liberal tendency than the Democrats

01:39:30.560 offer.

01:39:31.320 Again, the reason why I think young men are leaving is for one, it's not just ideology.

01:39:36.940 It's literally just conservatives had babies 18 years ago.

01:39:39.180 So that's a big function of it.

01:39:40.680 But what we did see is among the Gen Z that were 25, five years ago, and that are now,

01:39:47.140 or I should say 24, and they're now entering the late twenties, we have seen an uptick in

01:39:50.360 anti-LGBTQ, anti-gay marriage, pro-Jesus.

01:39:53.760 So that shift has happened a little bit.

01:39:55.560 And I think it's largely due to the fact that if you were looking at it objectively or pragmatically

01:40:01.120 or rationally, you're saying a vote for Donald Trump and the Republicans earns me

01:40:06.780 a 10-point net positive, and a vote for the Democrats is a 10-point net negative.

01:40:13.400 Yeah, I don't like Republicans on this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and this,

01:40:16.980 but they're offering me that, this, and otherwise, and the Democrats are doing nothing.

01:40:20.140 So I'll take Republicans.

01:40:21.040 I'm not sitting here criticizing the voters.

01:40:22.960 That's not what I have issue at.

01:40:24.260 No, I'm just saying that's why they're moving to the right.

01:40:25.920 Well, sure.

01:40:26.840 Also, I think Christianity offers purpose.

01:40:28.500 They're all lying, right?

01:40:29.580 My problem is that they're doing this based on this idea of they're all lying.

01:40:32.480 For example, military complex.

01:40:33.660 Okay, Musk just got multiple, several multi-million dollar military industrial complex contracts,

01:40:41.060 right, with SpaceX to develop a bunch of tanks, specifically.

01:40:44.380 Oh, wow.

01:40:44.820 Yeah, and Tesla also got some armored vehicle contracts.

01:40:47.440 I don't think that this is good, right?

01:40:49.080 For you to be so anti-military and war, right, he's been unable to stop the Ukrainian war,

01:40:56.100 which we knew.

01:40:57.180 Under his first term, he was doing multiple strikes.

01:41:01.060 Are you sure about this?

01:41:01.820 The Musk stuff?

01:41:05.440 The tanks?

01:41:06.620 You're referring to, like, armored personnel?

01:41:09.780 Armored vehicles.

01:41:10.620 Armored vehicles?

01:41:11.740 Tesla or SpaceX?

01:41:15.360 Maybe Tesla.

01:41:16.680 Tesla tanks.

01:41:17.920 I don't know.

01:41:18.620 SpaceX doesn't come up.

01:41:19.820 The SpaceX story that comes up is he got a contract for water tanks.

01:41:22.940 Golden.

01:41:23.360 Fuel tanks.

01:41:24.020 I think SpaceX as well, they're considering them for the golden, what's that new golden

01:41:27.840 defense system he's talking about?

01:41:28.780 The golden dome, yeah.

01:41:29.320 I don't, I, you know, I'm not saying you're wrong.

01:41:32.060 I just, I'm trying to find it.

01:41:33.000 Sure.

01:41:33.520 I'm not seeing anything.

01:41:36.760 Let me, let me try our good friend AI.

01:41:41.860 Well, even if we grant that, why do you, I mean, why is that necessarily wrong?

01:41:45.620 I mean, I think, I think there is something to like a peace through strength kind of deal.

01:41:50.080 Like, I don't think it's a problem to continue building our military and our defenses.

01:41:53.540 Yeah.

01:41:53.780 So I believe that America is the best global hegemon that we have ever had.

01:41:59.240 And I want them to stay.

01:42:00.300 And I think that they stay by military power.

01:42:02.060 I think fundamentally we must invest in our military.

01:42:04.400 Right.

01:42:04.660 So even if we grant that that's true, what you said, why is it a problem?

01:42:08.240 It's a problem.

01:42:08.920 If Trump is saying he's anti-war and then he's engaging in all sorts of war hawk behavior,

01:42:14.740 just like everyone else.

01:42:16.020 Yeah, but it is developing a military war hawk behavior though.

01:42:19.160 I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to say this with a caveat.

01:42:21.420 I have not been able to locate any source on SpaceX or Tesla getting access to tanks.

01:42:25.720 And a Google search pulled up nothing.

01:42:27.880 I asked ChatGPT and it says his DOD contracts specifically refer to satellite launches,

01:42:32.980 Starlink and Starshield, spy satellites and rocket cargo, but no military armored vehicles

01:42:38.380 or anything of that, of that nature.

01:42:40.060 Okay.

01:42:40.280 So they are getting military contracts, just not for tanks, but for armored vehicles and

01:42:43.780 cyber spy stuff.

01:42:46.280 I'm clarifying this because I've, I went on Joe Rogan and I mentioned that more than half

01:42:50.560 the country is, is, is a constitutional carry.

01:42:53.220 He said he didn't believe it.

01:42:54.780 And then Jamie pulled up a source, which was wrong.

01:42:56.960 And I said, ah, I guess I was wrong about that.

01:42:59.540 And then after I left, I Googled it.

01:43:00.780 I was right.

01:43:01.340 They just had a bad source.

01:43:02.520 Sure.

01:43:02.760 And I could be wrong, but it sounds like he's getting potentially some military contracts

01:43:05.960 with like at least cyber warfare.

01:43:08.040 Um, yeah, spy satellites, Tesla, you said is getting armored vehicles.

01:43:11.280 No, Tesla, uh, Tesla, there were early reports that they were working on an armored electrical

01:43:17.060 vehicle contract that was never, never put in place.

01:43:20.340 Gotcha.

01:43:20.820 Okay.

01:43:21.020 Elon Musk publicly denied there was ever any such deal.

01:43:24.440 Okay.

01:43:25.040 Okay.

01:43:25.660 That's not super mean.

01:43:26.500 I mean, I gotta be honest.

01:43:27.400 I would love it if the U S government was giving Elon Musk massive contracts for SpaceX.

01:43:32.040 Sure.

01:43:32.760 And yeah, that's what I was trying to get at.

01:43:34.120 Like, even if we grant the, even if we grant it for the sake of the argument, why is it

01:43:37.560 bad?

01:43:37.900 I guess I'm just curious.

01:43:39.480 So it's not bad.

01:43:40.520 What I'm pointing to is this idea that everyone lies.

01:43:43.440 So you have like, no, but you said it was bad.

01:43:45.420 That's why I was, you gotta let me finish.

01:43:46.520 Right.

01:43:46.900 So you guys said, well, the left is lying.

01:43:48.640 I mean, yeah, probably did.

01:43:49.860 Every time the leftists are like, we're anti-war.

01:43:51.940 I'm like, no, you're not.

01:43:52.800 You're all warhawks and you have to be warhawks.

01:43:54.820 The entire axis of resistance wants to kill everyone.

01:43:57.760 Okay.

01:43:57.900 But the reality is we're all going to have to be warhawks to some extent.

01:44:00.740 So what I brought up before was the warhawk behavior where we both agree that it was

01:44:04.500 actually, you know, we're actually engaged in proxy wars, et cetera.

01:44:07.260 Not that we still aren't, but we're trying to dial that back.

01:44:10.640 But then you said that because they're giving the contracts, that's somehow not a piece.

01:44:17.240 I would say like his initial support of the Gaza rollout, the Houthi attacks, the like

01:44:22.440 increase.

01:44:23.020 No, but specifically giving contracts to space it.

01:44:25.360 I was just trying to figure out why that's bad or why that's warhawk.

01:44:28.440 It's not bad.

01:44:29.120 If we're just building a military defense.

01:44:30.540 If you're anti-military industrial complex, you probably shouldn't be giving more contracts

01:44:34.320 to more and new companies that were never military industrial complex beforehand.

01:44:37.640 Yeah, but my point is that I think the military complex, the military industrial complex, whenever

01:44:41.820 we talk about that, we're usually talking about the involvement and constantly being

01:44:46.000 in hot wars, not necessarily just building up defense.

01:44:48.420 And so that's why I like new companies.

01:44:49.740 Cold wars and proxy wars are okay, but hot war is not good?

01:44:52.220 Yes.

01:44:52.780 Yeah.

01:44:53.860 Yes.

01:44:54.020 Okay.

01:44:54.900 So let's break that down.

01:44:56.060 We're not actually anti-war.

01:44:58.160 We're just anti like our soldiers going to war.

01:45:00.320 No, no, no, no, no.

01:45:00.880 Hold on.

01:45:01.660 There's going to be conflict and crisis in every capacity.

01:45:04.320 If we don't get involved in certain areas of the world, then China does.

01:45:07.620 And so what is our means of dealing with this?

01:45:10.600 Proxy wars, not so much.

01:45:12.600 Cold wars, I kind of get.

01:45:14.200 The argument is we should be using soft power to prevent hard escalation.

01:45:18.900 I agree.

01:45:19.220 That's why I don't fault the United States and NATO for their involvement in Ukraine

01:45:23.280 politics pre-war and why I think Russia was wrong to invade.

01:45:26.900 Sure.

01:45:27.120 The U.S. was using soft power to combat Russian interests.

01:45:31.840 And I think soft power can be aggravating, but it's the way we should handle things.

01:45:36.360 But also hard power, right?

01:45:37.560 Like in the case of the Houthis, I think Trump had no other option, but then to kind of like

01:45:41.260 nuke them out of orbit, they were basically shutting down the entire canal, right?

01:45:44.340 Left you on that one, I guess.

01:45:45.720 Yeah.

01:45:46.240 I'm decent.

01:45:47.180 I'm for.

01:45:48.860 Sure.

01:45:49.440 So that's fair.

01:45:50.420 But this is the same thing that I would grant.

01:45:51.820 Like, I think Obama having multiple strikes on terroristic cells was okay.

01:45:55.120 Like, I don't think it's always okay.

01:45:57.220 I'm sure you could point to me multiple drone shots and I'm like, yeah, that was bad.

01:46:01.180 Bush, not so good.

01:46:02.340 But this idea that like, we just allowed.

01:46:05.780 I'm not pro-Trump.

01:46:06.860 You said it was a good that he bombed the Houthis.

01:46:08.320 I'm not.

01:46:09.080 Well, here's the issue.

01:46:10.420 So you support him?

01:46:10.980 Not being deranged.

01:46:11.460 No.

01:46:11.800 Not being deranged about Trump doesn't mean I'm not pro-Trump.

01:46:14.300 These are gotchas.

01:46:15.240 I'm just screaming.

01:46:15.680 Yeah, yeah.

01:46:16.060 It means I'm a good.

01:46:16.920 What it actually means here is that I'm a good faith interlocutor.

01:46:19.600 I can grant Trump his wins, right?

01:46:21.120 I'm totally fine with that.

01:46:22.300 I have no issues with Trump doing good policies.

01:46:24.580 You don't call rapists, terrorists, austere scholars?

01:46:28.120 Trump?

01:46:29.140 So when Trump killed the head of ISIS, Washington Post called him an austere scholar.

01:46:34.220 What does that even mean?

01:46:35.360 He was like a guy who like kidnapped and raped women and had like women trapped in his basement.

01:46:39.820 I just, I just, I think it was an awesome thing that he like basically decimated ISIS.

01:46:45.120 I have no problem with it.

01:46:46.080 I think it was good that we got Saddam Hussein.

01:46:49.680 They changed it.

01:46:53.580 Liberals.

01:46:54.740 Abu Bakir al-Baghdadi, extremist leader of Islamic State, dies at 48.

01:46:58.660 Wait, that guy's 48?

01:47:01.580 That's rough.

01:47:01.860 Ain't looking too good, right?

01:47:03.000 That's rough.

01:47:03.720 Let's pull up the original.

01:47:04.360 He's probably pretty stressed.

01:47:04.880 He's rough for 48.

01:47:05.800 And been out in the sun a lot, so.

01:47:08.940 Here's the first one.

01:47:10.140 Where is it?

01:47:11.480 I love this website.

01:47:14.180 Let me see if I can.

01:47:16.260 Yeah.

01:47:16.800 Everybody remembers this.

01:47:17.740 Here's the original article.

01:47:19.320 Abu Bakir al-Baghdadi, austere religious scholar at home of Islamic State, dies at 48.

01:47:23.400 Wow.

01:47:25.980 Austere religious scholar.

01:47:27.360 That's crazy.

01:47:28.140 So, so, I mean, we don't have a lot of time left, but I do want to get to one point.

01:47:32.560 Yeah, we should probably talk about men at some point, too.

01:47:34.660 We did, we did.

01:47:35.260 But I think, I think we talked a lot about ideology and we're forgetting that liberals don't have kids.

01:47:40.700 But, yes, true.

01:47:42.920 And so the reason why we're seeing a young Gen Z be shifting rightward is actually kind of simple.

01:47:48.200 There's a lot less younger Gen Z than older Gen Z.

01:47:51.840 And there's a lot less older liberals who had children 17, 18 years ago.

01:47:57.140 That just means it's not an issue of winning a culture war.

01:48:01.320 A large component of this is quite literally Christians just had more kids.

01:48:04.300 So that's reflected in the data 18 years later.

01:48:06.680 Maybe, but this is, I think, almost always been true historically,

01:48:09.700 that conservatives typically have more children than liberals.

01:48:12.000 Like, I think this is true not just in the last 20 years.

01:48:13.900 I think this is true for, like, the last century.

01:48:16.200 The issue is that before, the left was really effective at essentially their kids would go to college

01:48:20.120 and their kids would become left, right?

01:48:21.880 Which is why typically we see through all of generations except for Gen Z

01:48:26.420 that millennials, for example, are much further left than their parents, right?

01:48:30.480 And then as they age, they shift towards being more moderate.

01:48:35.420 Well, let's see.

01:48:37.600 So far, the only data that comes up is from the 2000s onward.

01:48:41.860 What about 1970s, right?

01:48:44.680 Sure.

01:48:47.000 Let's see what they say about 1970.

01:48:48.260 It was becoming observable with the rise of second-wave feminism and birth control.

01:48:55.420 That the conservatives were having more children.

01:48:58.120 More kids.

01:48:58.540 But yet, their children were still going liberal, right?

01:49:01.240 So, like, the—

01:49:02.400 Actually, no.

01:49:03.760 Gen X is the generation that gave Trump his victory.

01:49:07.960 Millennials.

01:49:08.560 Millennials are their children, and those children are—

01:49:10.740 1970 is—

01:49:12.260 The children of those, of, like, the people in 1970, right?

01:49:16.420 Oh, right. I see what you're saying.

01:49:17.760 So, we've been, like, left for young people until recently.

01:49:20.940 That's why this election is such big news.

01:49:23.460 Right, right. So, I agree with you.

01:49:24.560 In 1970, the Gen Xers who were born ended up leaning conservative in the 2024 election.

01:49:31.880 In the 2024, but they were leaning left all the way up until then.

01:49:35.780 And millennials, even when they were 20, were leaning left.

01:49:39.280 It's only recent.

01:49:40.720 So, I don't know if it's the—

01:49:41.760 I think it's not a bad theory.

01:49:43.540 I just don't know if that's borne out with, like, historical timeline.

01:49:46.180 So, I agree.

01:49:47.380 I think it's ideology.

01:49:48.400 It is more likely ideology.

01:49:49.780 I think, for one thing, men have no purpose, and religion gives them one.

01:49:57.060 Yep. I would agree with that, broadly.

01:49:59.620 I don't know if I'd say, like, the right is doing the best at religion, necessarily,

01:50:04.540 because I think Trump is, like, fundamentally, like, very anti-religious, but they are more religious.

01:50:08.100 I think what he's saying, like, as men are becoming more religious, they're going to fall into that camp.

01:50:12.920 Maybe not necessarily be because, oh, I'm going to be religious because I want to vote for Trump.

01:50:17.200 Sure, but lots of conservatives are atheists.

01:50:18.700 It's like, because I'm more religious.

01:50:20.040 Tons and tons of conservatives are atheists.

01:50:21.260 There's only one reason men are going to the left, and it's because they watch those Charlie Kirk videos where he owns the libs.

01:50:26.500 True.

01:50:27.100 And they were just like, yo, and they don't know anything that's going on.

01:50:29.600 They just like saying yo.

01:50:31.480 I think—

01:50:32.400 I'm half kidding.

01:50:33.420 I think men are down.

01:50:34.200 I think men are down bad, like, hard.

01:50:35.860 And I think, yeah.

01:50:37.080 And they have been fucked over by history.

01:50:41.120 I would say, like, people cite, like, the 1970s.

01:50:44.120 I don't know if you've ever seen the website, like, what the fuck happened in 1971.

01:50:47.540 But essentially, there's a bunch of, like, crazy graphs that start exploding after 1971.

01:50:51.100 But I think men have this history where they have an entire generation wiped out in World War II, and then all the dads that did come back had PTSD, and then the Vietnam War happened, and a whole bunch of more dads got wiped out.

01:51:04.580 And so we have this history where we've basically stripped men of masculinity because they died.

01:51:10.160 They died, had PTSD, and we had nothing else to offer them.

01:51:13.840 And the only men that stayed back were the men that wouldn't go to war, which is not your prototypical man.

01:51:17.480 This is another reason why I think a lot of guys are moving away from the left.

01:51:22.200 Liberals are the pro-war party.

01:51:23.860 And maybe that's just in platitudes.

01:51:26.120 But, like, you know, one example I love to give is when I actually was defending Hassan Piker.

01:51:32.000 And I said, I agree.

01:51:33.740 Like, I think we agree, both he and I, about the military industrial complex getting too much money.

01:51:37.160 We don't want to be involved in these wars.

01:51:38.360 And that's why I think our involvement in Ukraine is wrong.

01:51:41.180 He immediately made a reaction where he mocked me.

01:51:44.140 He agreed with me on the military industrial complex and then said, yo, this guy wants to, like, just leave Ukraine.

01:51:49.000 What?

01:51:49.940 This guy's pro-Ukraine war?

01:51:51.500 How does that make sense?

01:51:53.700 Democrats are pro-war.

01:51:55.240 Yeah, I think sane—I think any sane politician fundamentally recognizes that America needs to remain as, like, the hegemonic superpower.

01:52:03.360 And something like Ukraine is something that has to be responded to in some degree because of such a massive breach in sovereignty that, like, I think if there isn't a response there, then we are moving towards a global hot war.

01:52:14.980 I think you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

01:52:16.040 Well, I think—

01:52:17.380 I can't vote in America.

01:52:18.260 No, I think, like, women in the United States shouldn't be allowed to vote.

01:52:24.560 Like, you want to tie the vote to the draft?

01:52:26.520 Yes, 100%.

01:52:27.460 But that's never been the case.

01:52:29.300 Right.

01:52:29.720 It's always been citizenship.

01:52:31.280 It's actually been more than that, right?

01:52:33.120 Like, um—

01:52:34.000 Land ownership.

01:52:34.360 Well, before it was land ownership and citizenship, but now it's just citizenship.

01:52:38.280 So the issue I take with this is that I say women shouldn't be allowed to vote as a hyperbolic statement meant to cause shock so that people will go, oh.

01:52:46.400 But what I'm actually saying is the idea that women in this country who largely vote Democrat have the right to vote to send me and my children and my friends to war to die for their psychotic worldview is unconstitutional and wrong and should not be permitted.

01:53:00.960 Well, and that's what I was going to say to touch on what you guys were talking about is that I think some of that even, too, is unintentional, that they're the more, like, pro-war party, that they're heading towards a hot war.

01:53:11.440 Because if you're continuing to—like you were saying, men are looking for a sort of empowerment and abandoning the kind of guilt that's being laid upon them.

01:53:20.100 If we're—if we continue to feminize all of our males in society and make them sit down and shut up and behave and, you know, you're sort of inviting in because you tend to begin to look weaker and weaker on the stage, regardless of your technological prowess or whatever.

01:53:37.200 You become kind of like a sitting duck or a target.

01:53:40.160 Yeah, I think—

01:53:40.680 Oh, look at these—look at this weak society.

01:53:42.420 I think tying the vote to the draft is, like, super unprecedented.

01:53:44.840 And I don't know almost any democracy that does that, in large part, because it's like, okay, so what, just, like, disabled men also can't vote?

01:53:52.920 You can serve in a bunch of ways.

01:53:54.680 You don't go to war.

01:53:56.260 Oh, so just as long as women serve in any way at the war, then they can vote, too.

01:54:00.060 Not about war, right?

01:54:01.420 So, I mean, like, we've had selective service, and we haven't had a draft since the 70s, and it's largely considered ineffective.

01:54:06.940 My proposal is that you have to sign up for selective service to receive your voter card.

01:54:11.840 Sure.

01:54:12.200 I just, like, think that women—just like disabled men can go to war, so can women.

01:54:15.620 And I think if women want to vote, then—and under that system, which I reject the draft idea tying it to voting.

01:54:21.620 What?

01:54:22.060 Because I don't think it makes a good voter in any way.

01:54:24.140 You can clean up garbage at a park.

01:54:25.220 We could just have mandatory service to the military also.

01:54:27.460 You can clean up garbage at a park.

01:54:28.900 What, the disabled soldier?

01:54:30.560 No, you, a woman.

01:54:31.680 Yeah.

01:54:31.860 I'm saying you don't have to go to war to provide service to your community.

01:54:34.640 Neither does a disabled man.

01:54:36.280 Indeed.

01:54:36.720 As long as you're doing something to assist your community.

01:54:39.000 My issue right now in the extreme is that women are not drafted.

01:54:45.200 Senate will not let them be drafted.

01:54:48.700 Conservatives will not let them be drafted.

01:54:50.640 But they can vote collectively to send men off to die.

01:54:54.140 Yeah, young men are going to reject that outright and be like, all these millennial women, these cat ladies are voting for us to go to war in Ukraine that I'm going to have to fight.

01:55:02.240 I'm 22 years old and I got to go die because these lunatics?

01:55:05.780 This is the tit for tit of citizenship is that everyone gets to vote on things that fundamentally apply exclusively to other groups regardless of whether that.

01:55:13.640 Yes, because men get to vote on abortion policies, which exclusively affects women.

01:55:17.840 No, it doesn't.

01:55:19.480 Who else carries babies?

01:55:21.320 The issue of abortion affects fathers.

01:55:23.800 Not the same way it affects women.

01:55:25.420 But like, see, this is another reason men are leaving.

01:55:27.400 Wait, wait, wait.

01:55:28.060 War affects women then.

01:55:29.220 If you're going to attach a degree of separation, war affects women because their husbands and sons are going to war.

01:55:34.200 I don't disagree with that.

01:55:35.180 So then your argument has been nullified.

01:55:36.840 My argument is that you can send me to die.

01:55:39.600 You can make a woman have to carry a baby.

01:55:43.280 And I think we can either make it so that men have no obligation to the woman, which they currently do regardless of what they choose.

01:55:52.000 I agree that that should be changed.

01:55:53.100 Yet women don't have the same caveats when it comes to war.

01:55:56.080 However, I'm fine with changing that.

01:55:58.120 Agreed.

01:55:58.400 The issue is that, well, hold on.

01:55:59.900 The issue is that I don't think the draft should ever be tied to the vote.

01:56:02.840 What does the draft have to do with it?

01:56:04.220 I'm not talking about that.

01:56:04.760 I'm talking about service guaranteeing citizenship.

01:56:07.220 Okay.

01:56:07.640 Okay.

01:56:07.860 So what does service include?

01:56:09.240 Just like serving your community?

01:56:10.780 Yeah.

01:56:11.180 Okay.

01:56:11.660 Sure.

01:56:12.080 I mean, there's the army engineer corps.

01:56:13.520 You can, you can be in the military and not go.

01:56:16.060 I mean, you can prepare for refrigerators in Omaha in the army, in the Vietnam era.

01:56:19.980 Sure.

01:56:20.380 I'm fine with that.

01:56:21.240 I would just basically be like, yeah, the fact that women aren't like fully barred from that is just like positive sexism.

01:56:25.580 And that's remaining.

01:56:26.200 We should probably get rid of that.

01:56:27.760 But conservatives are the ones who actually oppose it.

01:56:29.560 They don't want women in combat.

01:56:30.400 Of course, because conservatives are probably the most staunchly positive sexist and negative sexist, right?

01:56:34.740 So my point, going back to what you were saying about voting on things that affect other people, is the Constitution and the Civil Rights Act are supposed to be the remedies for that.

01:56:43.440 That if you are discriminated against in this capacity, we can sue and actually stop these laws from happening.

01:56:47.520 So, interestingly, we got rid of segregation.

01:56:53.380 You can marry whoever you want.

01:56:55.740 But when it comes to selective service, only men.

01:56:59.440 It's clearly unconstitutional.

01:57:01.880 And every time it's challenged, it's actually Democrats who challenge it.

01:57:05.200 And largely the female Democrats, it's conservatives who say, no, women should not be drafted.

01:57:09.860 And, yeah, I don't think women should be in combat roles.

01:57:13.460 Maybe – I will caveat that with – I mean ground, infantry, special forces, Navy SEALs.

01:57:18.080 There are certain combat-affiliated roles women can absolutely do.

01:57:20.660 Artillery.

01:57:21.160 They can do artillery.

01:57:22.320 Or, yeah, or like logistics, combat, like providing intelligence, basically pressing the buttons to launch the missiles.

01:57:28.320 There's combat roles there.

01:57:28.880 As long as they meet the minimum threshold for that job physically, they can do it.

01:57:32.400 So, there's no reason they should be exempt from selective service.

01:57:34.960 It's just about where a person – so, like, in this regard, going back to the disabled guy, a disabled 18-year-old man still has to sign up for selective service.

01:57:43.240 And, like, it depends on the disability.

01:57:44.480 Yeah.

01:57:44.680 I mean I just – I'm just here for you on this.

01:57:46.280 Like, going to Israel and, like, watching the fact that, like, you've got both men and women in the military.

01:57:51.240 They have to go and they've got this entire civilization – like, citizenry that has a knowledge of guns, that has a knowledge of violence and understands, like, how to respond to, like, high-risk situations.

01:58:00.220 I just think it's a good thing.

01:58:01.060 And not that I'm saying that we should have a mandatory draft.

01:58:02.800 That's right.

01:58:03.020 She thinks Israel is a good thing.

01:58:04.860 As a country?

01:58:05.820 I'm just – I'm kidding.

01:58:06.460 I mean, sure.

01:58:07.420 Like, 75 percent.

01:58:08.260 Yeah, I'm not super happy with what they're doing right now.

01:58:10.800 I was just screwing around because I know that that one gets everybody superheated.

01:58:13.920 Yes, it does.

01:58:14.760 It does.

01:58:15.200 But –

01:58:15.860 But I don't like the circumstance pertaining to Israel, their war and all this stuff.

01:58:21.180 I don't like mandatory service in the way they do it.

01:58:24.880 Sure.

01:58:25.120 I do think this country would benefit from – we've bounced around a few ideas of, like, to graduate high school,

01:58:30.860 you have to do, like, a month of basic training or something.

01:58:33.600 That it – where I grew up, you have to do 20 hours of community service to graduate.

01:58:37.260 Yeah.

01:58:37.400 Because the idea was you have to provide a communal service.

01:58:40.940 And then everyone bitched about it and it became nothing.

01:58:43.280 I'm saying, like, nah, basic training.

01:58:45.140 And it's – I think it's fun.

01:58:47.000 I think for a month you go to a summer camp, basically, and you crawl through the mud and you climb stuff and you do push-ups.

01:58:51.260 Yeah, that would solve our birthright issue.

01:58:53.140 What do you – how so?

01:58:53.800 What do you mean?

01:58:54.040 If you do basic training that's co-ed, everyone's going to fuck like crazy.

01:58:57.640 Of course.

01:58:58.360 This is obviously true.

01:58:59.400 Well, in the military, they let women do whatever they want.

01:59:01.800 The basic training for women is nonsensical.

01:59:03.580 Well, I would obviously oppose that, right?

01:59:05.240 Yeah.

01:59:05.560 I'm pretty pragmatic.

01:59:06.860 Well, the issue is, like, in the U.S. military – like, this is the thing about – we tried having this blank slate government of civil rights.

01:59:15.680 And then people are like, yeah, everybody's actually different and creating these universal policies didn't actually work.

01:59:22.520 Like, men and women are different.

01:59:23.860 That's the easy thing.

01:59:24.900 The race thing doesn't really make sense.

01:59:26.240 Racial discrimination makes literally no sense because a black guy from Somalia is going to be 5'5", and a black guy from Haiti is going to be 6'3".

01:59:31.520 You can't just be, like, black people because that doesn't mean anything.

01:59:34.320 But men and women largely does mean something.

01:59:36.700 So what ends up happening is the military says, women get potty breaks because they have to have them for hygiene reasons.

01:59:41.800 Because if women cry, best not deal with it.

01:59:44.460 We'll get sued.

01:59:45.240 Send them home.

01:59:46.000 Men, shut up and do push-ups.

01:59:47.900 So, like, clearly something doesn't make sense in any of this stuff.

01:59:50.860 Right.

01:59:51.040 I mean, what are your positions on conscription?

01:59:53.900 I mean, I guess both of you.

01:59:54.980 I mean, I think it would probably be –

01:59:56.140 I'm pro-conscription.

01:59:56.620 Yeah, me too.

01:59:57.540 I mean, I think at least a year or so.

01:59:59.220 I mean, right out of high school, you go do something.

02:00:01.580 I don't agree with that.

02:00:02.100 Like mandated?

02:00:03.120 Like the government's forcing you into it?

02:00:04.640 Like Israel does?

02:00:05.480 I think – yeah.

02:00:06.300 I think that in the time of invasion of the homeland, conscription is a good thing.

02:00:10.780 Yeah, I think Israel should do it.

02:00:12.420 Otherwise, no.

02:00:12.860 I don't think America should.

02:00:13.880 The United States should conscript any and all able-bodied individuals for any and all jobs they need in the event that the United States is invaded.

02:00:19.900 Yes, I agree.

02:00:20.900 But I just feel like it would help pull some of this culture a little bit together as well, too.

02:00:26.560 Like – and people who are having to go and serve and go into the military – that's what I mean.

02:00:31.040 I don't think the left would be like me.

02:00:31.560 I think a lot of that idea – I think a lot of that fantasy, like ideology, utopia –

02:00:35.660 No, it wouldn't.

02:00:35.680 The left would be me.

02:00:36.580 Like this idea that, like, the left is just weak and soy and all this sort of stuff, it's like it depends on what you mean.

02:00:40.600 If you mean left as far as principles, there are lots of us that are left that are principled, that are not cowardly, that understand that violence sometimes has to happen and it's a tragedy when it does.

02:00:50.340 And we are pragmatic in our solutions to making a better world.

02:00:53.440 This left does exist.

02:00:55.680 It has been stomped on over and over again from both sides, by the way.

02:00:59.520 The worst part about my position is that all of you are nasty to me.

02:01:03.360 I get doxxed and swatted from all of you guys.

02:01:05.460 And so there's this issue where it's like if you want a good left, which in a two-party system, you want a good left, just like we want a good right, then what you need to do is engage and treat the good left as though that they are doing that.

02:01:16.960 The disaffected liberals aren't doxxing you and attacking you.

02:01:19.800 The leftists are, yes.

02:01:21.340 The disaffected liberals are not.

02:01:22.620 The leftists, yeah.

02:01:23.480 No, the far right is.

02:01:24.760 Yeah.

02:01:25.140 Yeah.

02:01:25.340 Well, we don't like them either.

02:01:26.820 Sure.

02:01:27.320 The issue is that I'm – the issue that I'm saying is in this conversation, I've had to spend 80% of the conversation pointing at leftists and being like, yeah, I think that is crazy and not good, but that doesn't mean that I'm not left.

02:01:41.280 Because those are the people that are the general audience of this.

02:01:44.400 Then work with me to help make a better world.

02:01:47.720 Well, I mean that's part of this is calling it out.

02:01:50.880 If trans stuff is less than 1%, just let us have some trans stuff.

02:01:54.540 Just let us.

02:01:55.060 What does that mean?

02:01:56.740 You want to cut kids' balls off?

02:01:58.220 No, passports.

02:01:59.240 Passports and allowing them to transition if their insurance wants to cover it.

02:02:02.220 I'm not playing –

02:02:03.320 This is like Democrats with gun laws.

02:02:04.520 I'm like, come on, guys.

02:02:05.460 No, it's not.

02:02:05.920 Just work reasonably with Republicans.

02:02:07.400 It's not reasonable to put –

02:02:08.820 But guns are scary.

02:02:10.300 And it's like, yeah, I get it.

02:02:11.180 Trans people are really, really, really, really scary.

02:02:13.320 No, that's bullshit.

02:02:14.100 Let's be a little bit more reasonable.

02:02:14.840 That's bullshit.

02:02:15.320 You know it's bullshit.

02:02:16.100 Come on.

02:02:16.760 You claim you're reasonable.

02:02:17.600 You said people are scared of trans people.

02:02:18.960 No.

02:02:19.820 I'm, of course, being hyperbolic.

02:02:21.140 We're not going to change government documents because some people's fee-fees are hurt.

02:02:25.160 Sorry.

02:02:25.640 That's not at all what I'm talking about, right?

02:02:27.680 There's literally no functional reason to have the wrong sex on your ID.

02:02:31.640 There's no functional reason necessarily to have sex on the passport.

02:02:35.220 You could easily just have gender.

02:02:37.160 You could easily do that.

02:02:38.220 There is a functional reason, actually.

02:02:39.780 As long as you're strict –

02:02:40.820 To identify you.

02:02:41.320 No.

02:02:41.600 Yeah, sure.

02:02:42.080 Just have criteria for gender.

02:02:43.460 If you want to identify as a woman, you have to have a whole number of things that include with you, and your sex has to be on some other form of ID.

02:02:50.340 There is –

02:02:51.460 There's no argument for the passport.

02:02:54.120 You can have other IDs that force sex.

02:02:56.100 Like, you can just do this.

02:02:57.020 I'm not opposed to having sex identification.

02:02:58.900 There is limited reason at all for listing biological sex on identification.

02:03:05.160 However, there is reason to do it when it makes sense, and there is none to change it.

02:03:10.100 That is, medical purposes make sense, and in issues of where the law pertains, it makes sense.

02:03:14.800 How is the passport relevant to medical issues?

02:03:17.120 If you are a man, you have different organs than if you are a woman.

02:03:20.080 How does a passport have to do –

02:03:21.540 It's an ID.

02:03:22.740 Most people are just carrying around their passport.

02:03:24.480 Yes.

02:03:24.680 Isn't it mostly driver's ID that people bring?

02:03:26.240 No, actually, a lot of people carry passports instead of IDs.

02:03:30.440 In America?

02:03:31.200 Yes, they do.

02:03:32.400 Interesting.

02:03:32.940 Does nobody have their government ID or driver's license?

02:03:35.200 I would say a good portion of people who work here don't have IDs.

02:03:39.440 They have passports.

02:03:40.360 Okay, my driver's license from Alberta –

02:03:41.560 A good portion, three or four maybe.

02:03:43.020 My driver's license from Alberta has basically all of my medical decorations.

02:03:45.960 In Canada, we put all of our medical decorations on our driver's license because that's the

02:03:49.560 thing people actually carry about because the passport, if you lose it, is a nightmare

02:03:53.160 of a situation.

02:03:54.000 So if I lose my driver's ID, it's not a big deal.

02:03:55.360 Can I put the wrong age on my ID?

02:03:57.060 No, but you can –

02:03:58.060 Who cares?

02:03:58.380 There's absolutely space on the ID in Canada for gender and sex.

02:04:01.680 No, no, no, but here's a question.

02:04:02.240 Do you identify both?

02:04:03.060 Do you know how old I am?

02:04:04.280 I would guess in like your mid-30s to 40s.

02:04:07.100 How old do you think I am?

02:04:08.340 40s?

02:04:08.720 Oh, my God.

02:04:09.360 Mid-30s to 40s.

02:04:10.400 Like, give me a number.

02:04:12.580 36.

02:04:14.320 Ooh, I'm 39.

02:04:15.600 Okay.

02:04:16.100 Do I look 36?

02:04:18.220 Who knows?

02:04:19.120 That was the guess you made because you –

02:04:21.020 Yeah, you perform older.

02:04:22.420 You've got a lot of accrued wealth.

02:04:23.780 I'm assuming you're not in your 20s and you have like some markers of wrinkles.

02:04:27.240 Can I put that on my ID?

02:04:28.620 You can put your age on your –

02:04:30.180 Can I put 36 instead of 39?

02:04:31.960 No.

02:04:32.360 Why not?

02:04:32.600 Uh, for date of birth typically.

02:04:35.920 Yeah, but what if like, you know, some countries have –

02:04:38.640 Some countries have laws about, you know, certain people of certain ages aren't allowed to do certain things.

02:04:42.940 Yeah.

02:04:43.140 And what if I want to go to those countries?

02:04:43.760 That's why date of birth verification is super important.

02:04:45.520 Like you can't lie about your date of birth.

02:04:46.740 Why not?

02:04:47.040 Uh, for date of birth verification.

02:04:49.060 But what does that functionally do?

02:04:50.320 I'm not asking people to lie about their sex.

02:04:51.720 I'm asking passports to not have sex on it.

02:04:53.400 I'm saying it should probably have gender so that trans women are outed when they go international.

02:04:56.740 Why is my age on it?

02:04:56.760 Why does it matter if age is on it?

02:04:57.960 Your date of birth.

02:04:58.920 But what does that matter?

02:04:59.680 It's tied to your SIN.

02:05:01.100 To your SIN?

02:05:01.760 Oh, sorry.

02:05:02.700 You guys have SSN.

02:05:03.580 Yeah.

02:05:03.820 SIN in Canada is the SSN.

02:05:05.420 I was like, what?

02:05:06.840 It applies to what you carry, the cross you have on your back.

02:05:09.900 What's the functional difference between age and sex?

02:05:13.300 Uh, typically your performance.

02:05:15.100 Like people don't tie nearly as much to age post-18, whereas people tie a lot socially and script – like socially script-wise to your gender.

02:05:23.340 Well, what if you're 40 but you feel 25?

02:05:26.380 Like Brian Johnson.

02:05:28.120 I think –

02:05:28.420 Pretty pass-4.

02:05:28.940 Say, for example –

02:05:29.520 And he got surgeries and stuff to be younger, and medically they found his heart is in his 30s.

02:05:34.440 Yeah.

02:05:34.680 Should he be allowed to put that on his ID?

02:05:36.140 Uh, no, because I think –

02:05:37.060 What? Why not?

02:05:38.300 I'll tell you what.

02:05:39.160 If there's a whole bunch of Brian Johnsons that emerge and we identify that there seems to be a collective sequelae of behavior patterns that keep occurring all the time, that the DSM recognizes as occurring all the time, because I'm pro-criteria for trans and for gender.

02:05:53.220 This does exist.

02:05:53.820 It's called the midlife crisis.

02:05:55.320 Sure, but it's not something that can get treated.

02:05:57.760 It's true, though.

02:05:57.880 40 –

02:05:58.380 So, for example, if we showed that this group was suiciding at an astronomical rate, higher than schizophrenia, by the way, and it shows that if you put 25 on their ID, it might reduce their suicidality by 70%.

02:06:12.460 I might even be open to that argument.

02:06:14.880 I just think it doesn't exist, so we don't have to have it.

02:06:17.460 Today on Fox and Friends, and it's probably just targeting me because I'm 39.

02:06:21.820 It's the most annoying commercial ever.

02:06:24.460 I hate this product.

02:06:25.620 I hate these people.

02:06:27.060 It's the guy who goes, most men over 40 look in the mirror and see this.

02:06:31.420 And it shows a guy with, like, liver spots.

02:06:33.140 And it's like – and then he says it again.

02:06:34.460 Most men over 40 look in the mirror and see this.

02:06:35.980 And it shows a guy with, like, his teeth falling out or something.

02:06:38.320 I'm exaggerating.

02:06:39.180 And then he's like, buy this special cream that tightens your skin to make you young.

02:06:42.940 And I can't stand it.

02:06:44.040 I'm like, dude, just be old.

02:06:45.180 My beard's turning white.

02:06:46.300 And people, like – when I first started getting white in my beard, I kept getting comments where they're like, Tim, you got something on your face.

02:06:51.300 Because they didn't realize it was just, like, three white hairs.

02:06:53.720 They thought it was a piece of fuzz.

02:06:55.120 And I did not do anything about it.

02:06:57.060 So the fact is there are a lot of men who are going through an identity crisis where they're buying just for men.

02:07:02.900 They're doing ridiculous things like putting particle cream on their face or wearing beanies to cover up their male pattern baldness.

02:07:08.260 Things like that because they're having an identity crisis.

02:07:10.860 And they should be allowed to change their passports to say they're young.

02:07:13.180 Nope.

02:07:13.580 What I said is that they shouldn't be allowed to change their date of birth because their date of birth is tied to their SSN.

02:07:18.040 And that's fundamental.

02:07:18.580 So is your gender.

02:07:20.040 Your sex is.

02:07:21.100 Your sex.

02:07:21.440 Sorry.

02:07:21.640 You're correct.

02:07:22.040 Right.

02:07:22.480 So we shouldn't be allowed to change your sex because it's tied to your SSN.

02:07:24.580 Of course not.

02:07:25.840 I've never said that.

02:07:26.900 So on your passport, it should say your biological sex.

02:07:28.800 I said you should probably do gender.

02:07:30.060 If there's good reason that trans people are worried about that, yeah, you should be able to have a –

02:07:34.820 So then you're not – so then the issue is not that Trump said keep your passports correct.

02:07:38.560 Just Trump should be adding gender.

02:07:41.140 So it should say sex M, gender W.

02:07:43.460 The Democrats should have never tried to force the way through by using sex in the first place.

02:07:47.620 They should have always been sticking to gender.

02:07:49.380 And they should have been consistent about that.

02:07:50.600 So you agree that Trump was right to keep it aligned with your SSN?

02:07:54.740 I disagree with his change now because it was only petty and jabby, like changing the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America.

02:08:00.400 Sure, but functionally it's right.

02:08:01.320 It was just petty shit.

02:08:01.900 Right.

02:08:02.120 So he's a petty asshole, but functionally it's the right thing to be doing.

02:08:05.240 No.

02:08:05.640 I think if he wanted to do the functional thing, he would probably abolish sex from there and change it to gender.

02:08:10.740 But I'm saying – you were saying that –

02:08:12.360 Or remove sex and gender altogether.

02:08:13.460 I don't know if it's that important for your passport.

02:08:16.060 Your biological sex and date of birth should be what they are because it aligns with your SSN.

02:08:21.040 And functionally that's the right thing to do.

02:08:24.140 Correct.

02:08:24.700 Yes.

02:08:24.900 Right.

02:08:25.060 So your real issue is that –

02:08:26.460 Trump is being –

02:08:27.020 Your sex should never be changed legally in any way, shape, or form.

02:08:30.060 I'm opposed to that, right?

02:08:31.420 Which is why I opposed the idea of having passports doing sex changes for trans people.

02:08:36.200 I always think that the conversation should have been functionally either – I don't know enough about all of the details of passports, but can gender just be removed?

02:08:43.300 Because I don't know if it's actually important for passports.

02:08:45.520 You've got passport number, date of birth, location.

02:08:47.600 There's so much identifying information that is sex actually important.

02:08:49.680 What if there's like a big fat woman with like stubble?

02:08:52.960 You kind of can't tell if she's a man or a woman.

02:08:54.520 It doesn't matter.

02:08:55.060 She knows the name, the date of birth, and she matches –

02:08:56.540 But she does identify as a woman, and she is a female, and then she goes and someone calls her sir, and then she's like, I am a woman.

02:09:04.800 What about that?

02:09:05.900 Should she –

02:09:06.440 I don't –

02:09:06.940 Her ID should say woman.

02:09:08.540 That's – does that – what do you think I'm arguing?

02:09:10.540 You're – so her gender –

02:09:11.700 Engage with me or engage not with me.

02:09:13.160 Her gender is coded male, but she doesn't identify that way, and she doesn't want the passport to say it.

02:09:17.060 She's got like polycystic ovarian syndrome?

02:09:18.580 No, it's just a fat woman with stubble or something.

02:09:20.920 Women don't grow stubble typically, right?

02:09:22.860 Like –

02:09:23.120 They do, yeah, sometimes.

02:09:24.480 No, you have polycystic, right?

02:09:26.280 No, sometimes there's –

02:09:27.700 Sometimes they just give up.

02:09:28.760 They just –

02:09:29.200 They just let it grow.

02:09:32.400 Do you guys know what polycystic ovarian syndrome is?

02:09:33.820 Yes, PCOS.

02:09:35.440 PCOS, yeah.

02:09:35.880 So typically when women are growing beards, they have that.

02:09:38.140 I'm not saying she has a beard.

02:09:39.160 I'm saying some women, they'll get older, and they'll get stubble.

02:09:42.340 Okay, they're just like growing extra facial hair?

02:09:44.480 This happens.

02:09:46.500 Okay, let's just stop.

02:09:47.720 Hold on.

02:09:47.960 What do you think I'm advocating for?

02:09:49.900 Rather than creating these strong and funny versions of what I'm saying –

02:09:53.400 I'm saying you said the passport should be gender coded, right?

02:09:55.740 Gender or maybe gender removed.

02:09:57.120 I'm open to a lot of options, to be clear.

02:09:59.240 What if a woman is very masculine and manly and appears like a guy –

02:10:02.960 Sure, maybe that's a good argument for why we should abolish gender or sex from passports and have it exclusively on driver's license and only the sex on driver's license.

02:10:08.960 I'm still in identifying paperwork, and if you don't have your license on you, you get in a car accident or something.

02:10:15.700 All you have on you is your passport.

02:10:17.180 It should have your sex.

02:10:18.340 So emergency services can help you.

02:10:19.920 We've got to perform an emergency hysterectomy on this man.

02:10:22.980 So I've already said I'm open to a lot of strategies on the passport.

02:10:26.800 This idea that it has to be my idea isn't what I'm advocating for.

02:10:30.120 I'm saying caring about trans people being able to safely travel internationally actually does matter, and we should be able to have a pragmatic conversation about ways to solve this.

02:10:39.940 I don't think most people going to work really care about this.

02:10:47.540 You've got to let me finish talking.

02:10:48.500 If you say that you care about vulnerable populations, then the reality is that these are the niche things that you have to make policy on, and you have to be pragmatic about it.

02:10:56.600 And I think the left wasn't pragmatic about it, which is bad.

02:10:59.060 But the right is also not being pragmatic.

02:11:01.000 You're being angry.

02:11:02.320 That's not a good solution.

02:11:03.640 I think it's angry.

02:11:04.600 I think it's indifferent.

02:11:05.540 I understand your worldview.

02:11:06.940 You think we should intervene in Ukraine?

02:11:09.940 Like soldiers on the ground?

02:11:11.680 No, no, no, no.

02:11:12.120 Just in some capacity.

02:11:13.140 Like support Ukraine.

02:11:13.880 We should be involved in some way.

02:11:15.040 Yeah, sure.

02:11:15.640 Like sending missiles and stuff.

02:11:16.580 Right.

02:11:16.820 And so when you're talking about the trans issue with being able to travel to other countries, there's a kind of like American exceptionalist view that you have.

02:11:24.660 I believe the government should protect its citizens and do its best to find pragmatic solutions to protect those citizens in all sorts of ways.

02:11:31.480 Right.

02:11:31.720 And so my view is other countries have supreme sovereignty over their borders and land in determining what they allow or don't allow.

02:11:38.160 I understand your argument.

02:11:38.960 Right.

02:11:39.620 And so that's why I don't think we should be in Ukraine.

02:11:41.620 And the point I'm making is you think there should be some degree of involvement in Ukraine because of the issue of sovereignty.

02:11:46.980 And your view is we in the West have the authority, nay, the liberty.

02:11:52.120 Wait, I don't think you know what my Ukrainian position is based on what you said.

02:11:55.080 You said we should be involved in some capacity to support the Ukrainians.

02:11:57.940 Yeah.

02:11:58.240 So when I say sovereignty, what do you think I mean by that?

02:12:00.480 Ukraine sovereignty.

02:12:02.040 To?

02:12:03.380 Their land.

02:12:04.920 Where's their land?

02:12:05.920 And who?

02:12:06.340 Ukraine.

02:12:06.880 Okay.

02:12:07.500 Huh?

02:12:07.680 Gotcha.

02:12:08.500 Okay.

02:12:08.700 U.S. involvement in that country is a form of American exceptionalism.

02:12:14.960 How?

02:12:16.360 The U.S. having the right to intervene in a foreign war 8,000 miles away?

02:12:21.080 Why would the U.S. have the right to go into Ukraine?

02:12:23.300 We're across an ocean on the other side of the planet.

02:12:25.220 Didn't you just say that you were pro-Cold War?

02:12:27.980 Soft power.

02:12:29.040 Soft power is this.

02:12:30.520 No, it's not.

02:12:31.480 Yes, it is.

02:12:32.220 American special forces are on the ground.

02:12:34.940 If you don't deal with the Russian sovereignty breached in Ukraine, you are moving towards hot war between high powers.

02:12:39.660 That is reality.

02:12:40.300 It already is hot war.

02:12:41.480 What?

02:12:41.700 U.S. special forces are on the ground.

02:12:43.420 Yeah.

02:12:44.400 U.S. special forces are in Ukraine right now.

02:12:47.080 Are they frontline?

02:12:47.820 Yes.

02:12:48.440 And they're providing intelligence and military assets.

02:12:50.760 And it was the U.S. that sank the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet of Russia.

02:12:54.660 We are not talking about, what's her face, Victoria Nuland, aiding through USAID protest groups in Ukraine to be pro-EU.

02:13:02.660 Soft power I'm okay with.

02:13:04.120 We do that to avoid hot kinetic war.

02:13:05.940 When Russia invaded, that's a point where we're like, they've gone to a hot conflict, and we do not escalate beyond where we are.

02:13:12.020 Instead, U.S. sent in special forces.

02:13:15.220 U.S. sent in—

02:13:16.280 When did we send them?

02:13:17.220 I'm not super familiar with this.

02:13:18.780 Probably 2022.

02:13:19.620 Intercept reported it.

02:13:20.640 Okay.

02:13:20.880 U.S. special forces—the game that the West is playing is the American troops that are on the ground volunteers.

02:13:27.920 The special forces just providing intel.

02:13:30.020 Can I look it off my phone?

02:13:30.400 Do you mind?

02:13:30.760 I'll pull it up, right?

02:13:31.520 People often say that they don't understand.

02:13:34.120 And I know that I don't know this, so I don't want to put the burden on you to always search these things.

02:13:40.820 Oh, man.

02:13:41.840 2022, is that when they reported it?

02:13:49.500 Let's see here.

02:13:50.520 One former special—I think it was Delta Force.

02:13:52.420 Was it Delta?

02:13:53.260 I could be wrong.

02:13:54.440 And you said frontline, right?

02:13:55.780 Yes.

02:13:56.760 So now let's clarify.

02:13:58.200 They are not pulling the trigger, and that's the point I was making.

02:14:00.320 The game that they're playing is the U.S. individuals that are trained by the military and former military that are shooting at Russians are volunteers.

02:14:09.540 And the special forces that work for the United States that are there are providing intelligence.

02:14:13.620 But if a U.S. special forces looks at a Ukrainian guy and says, if you press that button, it'll launch a U.S. rocket and blow up a Russian vessel.

02:14:20.460 You cannot claim that Russia is doing it.

02:14:22.220 The U.S. is not doing it.

02:14:22.920 This is hot war.

02:14:23.800 Sure.

02:14:24.200 The issue is that, like, now we're having—now we're having, like, these loophole issues of Americans who believe in the Ukrainian war want to support it and are militarily trained.

02:14:34.320 I looked it up, right?

02:14:35.420 It's important to know that individual American volunteers have joined Ukrainian forces independently.

02:14:39.840 For instance, U.S. and Iraq war veterans.

02:14:42.400 John A. Peabli was killed in Ukraine while serving the Ukrainian.

02:14:45.000 These individuals act on their own accord and are not sent by official U.S. military deployment.

02:14:49.260 The U.S. has not sent troops to Ukraine to engage in combat whatsoever, and there are no current plans to do so, right?

02:14:55.040 And so it's like, I understand that you're saying Americans are going there, and they're volunteers.

02:14:59.000 And it's like, probably to some extent they are, and to some extent they probably have some level of blessing, but also Americans have the liberty to do that, right?

02:15:06.640 Americans can choose to do that.

02:15:08.540 Just like Israel-Americans, a lot of them went to Israel on October 7th to join up on the IDF.

02:15:15.980 There you go.

02:15:16.740 2023.

02:15:17.100 It was reported earlier in several months prior by The Intercept that Western special forces were on the ground directing the combat operations for Ukraine.

02:15:26.620 And what they've done is there's U.S. personnel actively pulling the trigger and shooting, but they're former military.

02:15:34.120 Former.

02:15:35.100 Not under the command of—so here's the game.

02:15:37.700 I love this.

02:15:38.440 U.S. special forces and U.S. intelligence direct the Ukrainians who direct their volunteers who are American.

02:15:43.480 This is a hot conflict.

02:15:44.860 It's a hot war.

02:15:45.440 The U.S. is involved, and we've got U.S. military in Poland training people for this conflict.

02:15:51.800 If this is a hot conflict, then most of our proxy wars were hot conflicts directly between Russia and U.S., and it's just not, right?

02:15:59.560 I understand that you're looking at this and being like, this is a loophole, which I might even grant.

02:16:04.840 Vietnam was a proxy war with the communists, but we were actively fighting the Viet Cong.

02:16:10.300 The U.S. was in Vietnam aiding—what's the name of the—

02:16:15.000 When I'm saying proxy wars, I think most people—I'm at least referencing Middle East, right?

02:16:19.400 That's typically the areas that we mean when we say Cold War proxy wars.

02:16:22.160 The reason why this is not a proxy war is that U.S. individuals under the guidance of Ukraine, under the guidance of U.S. special forces and U.S. intel, are shooting at Russians directly.

02:16:31.460 We're not at proxy with Russia.

02:16:32.960 We have U.S. citizens shooting Russians.

02:16:35.860 In the former proxy wars of the Cold War, like in North Korea and in Vietnam, U.S. troops were aiding the forces there to fight the other forces there.

02:16:44.440 That's a proxy war.

02:16:44.780 Are U.S. troops not allowed to volunteer?

02:16:47.240 They're not U.S. troops.

02:16:48.220 They're former veterans and contractors who volunteered to go up.

02:16:50.620 Yeah, sure.

02:16:52.040 Are U.S. citizens not allowed to volunteer with foreign militaries?

02:16:54.880 They're sure.

02:16:55.340 They're allowed to volunteer wherever they want.

02:16:56.760 Okay.

02:16:57.200 Are they being funded directly by the American military?

02:17:00.180 Like, is the American military paying these people to go?

02:17:05.200 You want to play—we can play a game of semantics and—

02:17:07.280 It's not a game of semantics at a legal level, right?

02:17:09.620 We can play a game of semantics and say they are not directly funded by the American—this is what you're going to get from, like, the defense secretary.

02:17:17.480 He's going to say no U.S. dollars are being spent to send these people to Ukraine.

02:17:23.360 They are there of their own volition.

02:17:24.660 And then what the truth is, but we do give the money to Ukraine and tell them to pay these guys.

02:17:28.900 So, the volunteers who join the Ukraine foreign, like, army or whatever, like the—

02:17:35.500 Well, they call it the volunteer coalition, but the private military contractors get paid.

02:17:38.000 Sure.

02:17:38.440 They go there, and they probably get some money from the Ukrainian government for what they're doing.

02:17:42.600 Which is American money funneled through the Ukrainian government.

02:17:44.380 Not just American money, though, right?

02:17:45.740 It's the Ukrainian money, American money, and probably EU money and British money.

02:17:49.040 Sure.

02:17:49.060 Mostly U.S. money.

02:17:50.460 Yeah, probably NATO money, I think, would be the, like, most comfortable way to say it.

02:17:53.640 Which is the U.S.

02:17:54.180 The issue is that this—are you saying that, basically, the U.S. should ban those American citizens from going?

02:18:01.160 No.

02:18:02.840 I'm saying U.S. should not have special forces on the ground, like the BBC reported in 2023.

02:18:07.300 So, they should ban them from going?

02:18:09.300 U.S. special forces were ordered to go.

02:18:12.060 If you're an ex-Marine—

02:18:12.980 No, no, no, no, no.

02:18:13.700 U.S. special forces are active duty personnel ordered to go to Ukraine.

02:18:16.920 That should not have happened.

02:18:17.820 If you're a former military and you want to go to Uzbekistan, I don't care.

02:18:20.760 If you want to go fight for whatever—

02:18:21.760 They were fighting front line?

02:18:23.540 You—on the ground.

02:18:24.900 Call it what you want.

02:18:25.740 Well, what does that mean?

02:18:26.880 It means they're in control of the operations that are happening, and they're giving direction to the Ukrainians.

02:18:32.400 First of all, you need to have evidence to support all these cranes.

02:18:36.240 Is the BBC—

02:18:37.440 Okay, you know, the BBC is—

02:18:38.980 Western special forces on the ground.

02:18:40.220 You went—they're on the ground.

02:18:41.460 They're controlling the Ukrainian military operations.

02:18:44.480 Yep.

02:18:44.880 That's a pretty big leap.

02:18:46.320 That's what's happening.

02:18:48.080 You need evidence for that.

02:18:49.480 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

02:18:51.100 To be fair, like I said, in the philosophy of truth, we largely believe these things based on the reports that we get from the corporate press who lie quite a bit.

02:18:59.840 So this is your evidence that not only they're on the ground—

02:19:03.400 Well, this is just one article I pulled up right now.

02:19:04.640 Controlling the Ukrainian government—the Ukrainian military, sorry.

02:19:08.520 You know what the challenge is, to be honest?

02:19:11.280 I'm just saying you need extraordinary evidence for that claim.

02:19:13.500 You could be right.

02:19:14.220 I can sit here.

02:19:14.920 You could be right.

02:19:15.840 You have to find not just one or two articles saying somebody hearsay said said this.

02:19:22.060 You need to find dollars moved.

02:19:24.060 You need to show that the U.S. is actively supporting this, even if it's under tongue-in-cheek, right?

02:19:28.600 You need to show evidence that Ukrainian soldiers are being controlled by these individuals and that they're high up in the Ukrainian military, like, government.

02:19:36.440 If they're out in charge of a platoon, that's not really what we're talking about here, right?

02:19:40.760 We're stretching the definitions of these things at this point.

02:19:43.020 My point is that U.S. special forces, active duty, are in Ukraine.

02:19:48.160 They are doing what's called operational coordination.

02:19:52.880 Here's the simple way of describing it.

02:19:56.580 The U.S. says, here's where their ships are and here are some missiles.

02:19:59.740 If you press that button, it'll blow it up.

02:20:02.360 Yeah, that's U.S. involvement in a war with Russia.

02:20:05.060 Okay.

02:20:06.320 So then why hasn't Russia claimed that they violated—

02:20:09.760 Russia has been claiming since the beginning of the war they're at war with the U.S. and NATO and not Ukraine.

02:20:13.140 So why aren't they striking U.S. or NATO?

02:20:15.040 Because that would expand the war beyond the borders of Ukraine, and Russia's not prepared to do that.

02:20:18.720 Right.

02:20:19.560 And because Russia won.

02:20:22.020 Won which?

02:20:23.340 Russia has largely won the war as of right now.

02:20:28.060 And I largely just think, like, you know, Trump's getting really pissed because Putin isn't willing to stop.

02:20:35.280 They had—okay, the U.S. had approximately 14 special forces personnel in Ukraine stationed at the U.S. embassy.

02:20:41.220 Their roles included providing security for VIPs and assisting with oversight of U.S. equipment and supplies being sent to Ukraine.

02:20:48.440 That's your evidence that they're controlling the Ukrainian military.

02:20:50.900 That's one—you're going to have to find more evidence than that because that's one article you pulled up and not just here to say he should see it.

02:20:55.220 Well, hold on.

02:20:55.900 I'm agnostic.

02:20:56.800 You have to find the evidence.

02:20:58.040 Yeah.

02:20:58.760 I'm asking you for it.

02:20:59.900 I don't have to find it.

02:21:00.760 The only evidence I have weakens a lot of what you're saying because they're at the embassy, which they're allowed to be at, and they're providing security for VIPs.

02:21:08.920 That's one article.

02:21:10.540 That's your own logic being used right back at you.

02:21:12.200 You understand that, right?

02:21:12.960 No, I'm agnostic to this.

02:21:14.480 You told me—

02:21:15.340 You have the affirmative claim.

02:21:16.060 You must prove.

02:21:16.740 Indeed.

02:21:17.340 And then you found one article that you thought asserted a truth and used that to make your point.

02:21:21.360 No, I said—

02:21:21.600 Which my argument is the same argument you made.

02:21:23.760 If you're going to make a claim that special forces are only at the embassy, you need more proof than just that article.

02:21:27.840 If I'm going to be good faith to just ask your questions and read out what I find, that doesn't mean that you can go, see, that proves that they were controlling the Ukraine military.

02:21:36.480 No, it doesn't.

02:21:37.440 All it proves is that they were security for VIPs and helping facilitate the arms into Ukraine.

02:21:42.780 That doesn't show anything that you're claiming.

02:21:45.740 Because you said—

02:21:47.100 If you can't engage in, like, good things.

02:21:48.940 So one of, like, the most important things—

02:21:49.880 Okay, so let me make my point.

02:21:50.980 I'll make my point.

02:21:52.560 I've been covering the Ukraine war since it started.

02:21:54.460 But I've—I can tell you about—I was physically in Ukraine when the conflict started.

02:22:01.580 I was there twice, and I got to witness the collapse of the statue.

02:22:04.380 I got to go to the Statue of London after it was toppled, and people were stealing things from it.

02:22:08.120 And in covering this, I have tracked numerous stories from the beginning of the Euromaidan protest movement, which I was physically present, to the Burisma scandal, to physically being present in Kiev during the separatist conflicts in 2017.

02:22:22.700 And in all of this research, we have found there are U.S. volunteers, which is part—it's called a volunteer coalition.

02:22:30.360 These are paid private military contractors, former U.S. military personnel, and there is operational coordination from U.S. special forces on the ground in various capacities.

02:22:38.460 In saying all of that, you asked me for proof.

02:22:41.840 To be fair, what I was going to say is it's very difficult in the span of 20 minutes to pull up 10 years of research.

02:22:48.360 But if I were to start digging through those articles, which I would be happy to do, we're already 20 minutes past time, and it's going to be very difficult.

02:22:54.280 You then said you can't pull up one article.

02:22:57.040 That's not what I said.

02:22:57.860 You said you're going to need extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence, and if you're going to pull up this article, that's a he said, she said, it's not enough, and then you literally pulled up an article of a he said, she said, to make a counterclaim.

02:23:09.600 This is the sophistry of which I'm referring.

02:23:11.840 Hold on.

02:23:12.480 Sorry.

02:23:12.900 Also here, Russia won.

02:23:13.720 Here's the proof.

02:23:14.900 Okay.

02:23:15.540 So—

02:23:15.860 It's Ukraine battle, Matt.

02:23:17.060 Russia owns the Donbass.

02:23:17.920 So let's just, like, break down.

02:23:19.260 I don't love meta-litigating the conversation, right?

02:23:21.640 But what I said—so a really common thinking way to think, a way to purify and ensure that you're not thinking poorly about things is called extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

02:23:33.180 We're familiar.

02:23:33.900 Okay.

02:23:34.400 So what I'm saying is that that article you cited, I found exactly what they were talking about, the special forces that were on the ground, and I showed you this is what they were doing.

02:23:44.840 They were at the embassy, right, securing VIPs, giving them security.

02:23:49.620 Indeed.

02:23:49.820 And helping facilitate missiles.

02:23:51.220 To which your previous point was, a single article is not enough to prove or disprove anything.

02:23:57.420 Correct.

02:23:57.820 So me—

02:23:58.380 So citing the single article does not prove or disprove anything.

02:24:02.300 Right.

02:24:02.820 The issue that you have is you're in the affirmative position.

02:24:05.780 I'm agnostic.

02:24:06.660 You just have to have a burden of evidence to convince me that this is the case.

02:24:11.820 Indeed.

02:24:12.300 Which is not going to happen in half an hour with 10 years of research.

02:24:14.900 I would argue that if you have 10 years of research, you could probably succinctly list out a fair bit of really strong evidence of at least dollars moving and that front line—these embassy workers, for example, ever being front line, killing Russian soldiers, anything like that.

02:24:29.560 Do you want me to do a 40-minute treatise on the history of the Ukraine conflict?

02:24:32.660 Because I'll do it.

02:24:33.840 I love this subject.

02:24:35.540 What's the Qatar-Turkey pipeline, my favorite launching point?

02:24:38.340 I don't know.

02:24:38.940 So in 2012, The Guardian reported that the U.S. had been working on a project to build a natural gas pipeline from Qatar through Syria, Turkey, into Europe to offset the Russian gas problem, gas monopoly.

02:24:49.840 Russia controls about a quarter of natural gas into Europe through Ukraine, which leads to high gas prices in Europe.

02:24:56.560 They've tried offsetting this in numerous ways, but Russia basically controls it.

02:24:59.680 So the U.S. went to Syria, the Assad regime, and said, we're going to build this pipeline.

02:25:03.200 It's going to provide Europe with cheaper energy.

02:25:05.200 It's going to lower the costs across the board.

02:25:06.480 So Syria then conferred with Russia, their ally, who has a military base in Tartus, and Syria came back to the U.S. and said, we're not going to let you do it because it would violate—it would be damaging to the economics of Russia.

02:25:16.300 So the U.S. was upset, obviously, but it got really bad when Russia, Syria, and Iran plotted to then build a rival pipeline from the exact same oil field through Iraq into Syria, Turkey, into Europe to strengthen their monopoly on energy.

02:25:32.740 The U.S. got pissed.

02:25:33.820 It's around this time that they said the Bashar al-Assad regime needs to go in their terrorists, and that's when we got Operation Timber—what was that one?

02:25:43.680 Let me pull this one up.

02:25:44.960 See, it's like, you know, Timber—Sycamore.

02:25:47.780 Operation Timber—Sycamore is when the U.S. started providing weapons and CIA training to various revolutionary—let me just pull it up—factions in Syria, ultimately, which ended up joining al-Nursra and ISIS.

02:26:04.080 And that's how we ended up seeing U.S. weapons and training in the hands of ISIS expanding in the region, because the U.S. wanted to topple the Assad regime so we can build a pipeline.

02:26:11.100 So, where are we today?

02:26:13.920 Well, the U.S. has other means of trying to get the prices down and control natural gas in Ukraine.

02:26:18.960 That is, through Burisma, an energy company in Ukraine for which the founder was a man named Michael Zlachevsky.

02:26:25.640 The U.S. had a former CIA director of terrorism on the board, as well as the son of the sitting vice president, Hunter Biden, which seemed to make no sense, except when you realize it was a U.S.-aligned foreign influence operation to control the government of Ukraine, to put pressure on the land leases for which they could cause problems for Gazprom, which is Russia's ability to supply energy to Europe.

02:26:48.840 So, then we get the Burisma scandal.

02:26:51.700 Viktor Shokin, the prosecutor in Ukraine, was currently investigating Michael Zlachevsky, the founder of Burisma, for corruption.

02:26:57.900 Joe Biden got an email.

02:26:59.080 He got contacted by Devin Archer and Hunter Biden over their involvement in Burisma and the fact they're being investigated by a state prosecutor.

02:27:05.760 Viktor Shokin signed a sworn affidavit that the only reason he was terminated was because Biden personally flew in and threatened to illegally withhold congressionally approved loan guarantees unless he was fired.

02:27:16.040 And it had to do with Hunter Biden being on the board, who was getting $83,000 a month, potentially more.

02:27:21.820 He was then fired from his position.

02:27:23.800 Now, the fascinating thing is Michael Zlachevsky, while he was under investigation for corruption, fled Ukraine.

02:27:28.240 I believe he went to Monaco.

02:27:30.040 At this time is around when Devin Archer, Hunter Biden are making contact with the State Department saying, we need help on this.

02:27:36.240 Within a few days, Joe Biden flies out completely illegally, tells the president of Ukraine, fire your state prosecutor or you're not getting the money.

02:27:44.280 To which this person replied, I believe it was Poroshenko, you don't have the authority to do that.

02:27:48.380 You can't do that.

02:27:49.280 And he says, call the president.

02:27:50.480 See what he says.

02:27:51.620 Son of a bitch.

02:27:52.820 He got fired.

02:27:53.580 And they put in someone good, is the quote that Joe Biden said.

02:27:56.000 However, this guy they put in drops the investigation into Zlachevsky, whose funds were frozen by London under corruption investigations, who then immediately returned to Ukraine.

02:28:05.420 So this whole period, they're saying none of it's happening.

02:28:08.560 It's never happening.

02:28:09.720 And in fact, once the investigations were dropped because of Joe Biden's involvement, the guy who was accused of corruption returned back to his operations in this country.

02:28:17.120 Where we currently are is following the failures of Western soft power to secure this in this energy conflict, of which there's a bit more.

02:28:24.120 Russia wanted to build a trade federation and they had a free trade agreement with Ukraine.

02:28:28.420 Ukraine was also being offered up Schengen zone access and EU access if they chose to go with NATO in the West instead.

02:28:35.460 A large portion of Ukraine split largely on the east to west, the Donbass largely towards Russia, wanted to join the EU because it would give access to Ukrainian citizens to Europe.

02:28:46.800 And what did we see with Poland?

02:28:48.120 When they entered the Schengen zone, Polish people immediately started moving to the UK and to other countries where they can get higher standards of living.

02:28:54.160 Same thing happened with Greece, which caused economic instability.

02:28:56.920 So the West told Ukraine, we're not going to let you into the EU unless you reach a certain standard.

02:29:02.080 So you end up getting Victoria Nuland.

02:29:04.620 She flies down.

02:29:05.560 She's heavily engaged in the politics of Ukraine, trying to convince people to be in Ukraine to support Western expansion and not the Russian trade federation.

02:29:14.120 Vladimir Putin said at the time to Ukraine, if you open up a trade agreement with Europe and a free trade agreement with us, it's going to mean cheap European products are going to flood into Russia and damage our economy.

02:29:25.400 We can't allow that.

02:29:26.220 What ends up happening?

02:29:28.020 The Euromaidan movement ousts Viktor Yanukovych, stripping all Russian interests, Russian-aligned interests from the country, and puts in power an administration that was more pro-West.

02:29:39.520 And Vladimir Putin says, I'm not going to lose this soft power battle, even if I have to invade.

02:29:44.280 The first thing they did was dispatch their troops from Sevastopol to claim Crimea got a referendum.

02:29:49.480 And they had their referendum, which I think is largely fake bullshit.

02:29:53.340 They just walked outside and said, hey, look, everybody's Russian now.

02:29:56.360 Crimea, however, had in the past voted for independence and were blocked illegally, I would argue, by the Ukrainian government in the 90s.

02:30:02.280 This ends up with a separatist movement emerging in the east, outraged the president, who was duly elected, was removed in what people who are pro-Russia would call a coup.

02:30:11.480 But at the time, they were saying an illicit removal of the president of Ukraine.

02:30:15.280 Russia began supplying weapons and training to the eastern separatist movements, which largely did not expand in any meaningful way.

02:30:20.800 However, after Donald Trump lost in 2020 and Joe Biden came in, Western interests were reignited in Ukraine.

02:30:28.480 And this pause was largely due to the fact that Donald Trump was uninterested in this direct involvement in Ukraine, much the way the Democratic administrations had been under Obama and with Hillary Clinton at the State Department.

02:30:38.480 Once Joe Biden got in and started to re-up U.S. interests in the region, largely over getting cheap energy into Europe, Russia then decided to do a hard invasion.

02:30:49.040 I think they were wrong to do it. I think they had lost the soft power battle.

02:30:51.900 I think soft power is an appropriate means of force in winning conflict.

02:30:55.840 But I admit that soft power can often lead to hard conflict, but I'm not so stupid and naive to think that wars don't happen.

02:31:02.180 Russia crossed the line militaristically.

02:31:04.500 However, the U.S. then immediately intervened and started supplying – I should say NATO in the west – started supplying Ukraine with weapons, which kind of shocked the Russians who thought they were going to win this relatively quickly.

02:31:14.620 But they never said three days. That was actually, I think, someone on the BBC who said that.

02:31:17.800 Russia has been now flooding the zone, and they've seized the entirety of the eastern region, for which their principal purpose in starting this war is not about seizing Ukraine.

02:31:29.300 It is about controlling Sevastopol, where they have a $300 million or multibillion-dollar military naval infrastructure, the home of the Black Sea fleet, which is their access to the Mediterranean through the Bosphorus, and then ultimately into the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden and the Arabian Sea, where what the United States derisively calls Russia a cold gas station.

02:31:51.580 Russia needs access to the Black Sea to be able to sell oil and natural gas and other resources along the Mediterranean, and if they get cut off from the Black Sea, it's going to be massively damaged to their economy.

02:32:00.720 That's why they seized Crimea.

02:32:03.320 Now, the important thing to understand is they didn't invade Crimea.

02:32:05.400 They were already there in Sevastopol, where they have a naval base.

02:32:07.380 They simply released the troops from this area to have a referendum.

02:32:11.900 But the invasion of the eastern regions, which is Donetsk, Luhansk, Mariupol, Zaporizhia, etc., this is about securing a land bridge access to Crimea so they don't get cut off from their naval base.

02:32:24.040 Now, some people have argued, yeah, but they could build a naval base anywhere else they have access in, you know, what do they have?

02:32:29.420 They have, hold on, Sochi, I think is the name of the city.

02:32:33.200 They have access to, yeah, Sochi.

02:32:35.200 They could build a base there.

02:32:36.460 Russia's not going to give up a military base to the west, to the EU.

02:32:41.720 That's not going to happen.

02:32:42.840 So they're going to do what they have to do to secure this region of the country.

02:32:45.840 Now, we can look at a few other instances where I would argue that our involvement in Ukraine has been bad for us.

02:32:51.220 That was Germany accused a Ukrainian national of bombing Nord Stream 2,

02:32:55.000 and Ukraine is accused of engaging in actions like this to create public support for U.S. and Western involvement in this country.

02:33:04.780 So, all in all, the U.S. should not be meddling in the foreign affairs of the Middle East and Eastern European nations for the purpose of securing cheaper gas and energy for NATO.

02:33:17.160 The tangential reason, what they argue on the surface, is that there is a concern among the Western economic bloc that China is expanding too rapidly,

02:33:23.540 and that in order to make sure that NATO can grow commensurately with China so they don't become the dominant unipolar force,

02:33:29.860 Europe is going to need access to cheaper energy and a larger labor force,

02:33:33.060 which is why they've had the mass immigration movement, largely from sub-Saharan Africa,

02:33:37.260 and it's why they want to get cheaper energy into Ukraine.

02:33:40.240 If the argument is, you know, as people have made,

02:33:43.940 the U.S. should be involved in Ukraine because Russia is a nation who's violating the sovereignty of countries,

02:33:48.580 that's fake, and that only works on people who've not done any research on the region or the conflict.

02:33:53.560 And my final thought on this is, what I know about this is massively limited compared to actual people doing intelligence and working in the region,

02:34:02.080 but it is over the span of 15 years of actually actively being involved to a certain degree journalistically,

02:34:08.040 as I have friends who've personally gone to Syria over the Civil War,

02:34:11.280 tracking this and many other stories related to the Qatar-Turkey pipeline,

02:34:13.600 and have personally been to Ukraine at the start of the conflict watching it happen

02:34:17.460 and interviewing people in Ukraine on the ground and even going to pro-Yanakovich rallies to learn what they were talking about.

02:34:22.760 This does not mean in any way that what I am saying is absolute truth, I don't know,

02:34:25.800 but I certainly have more experience in the matter than most people who are pushing bullshit platitudes about the sovereignty of Ukraine.

02:34:30.980 Sure, okay. So I want to make sure I summarize you so that you tell me that I've heard you correctly.

02:34:35.560 And obviously it won't be as long, so just tell me if my summary is reasonable and good faith.

02:34:39.500 Basically, there was a major soft war struggle, that soft power struggle that started happening over natural gas energy, right?

02:34:47.760 And Ukraine is an important nexus for this struggle, and essentially NATO wants to support Ukraine in keeping it NATO,

02:34:54.600 and they want to make sure that they get pipelines through that area that goes to EU so that they have energy access.

02:35:00.180 Pipelines are there. They want governmental authority to control the prices that Russia is setting when they transport this energy.

02:35:06.860 Yeah, they want to compete with the Russian monopoly.

02:35:08.280 This is not competition.

02:35:10.860 Well, wouldn't Ukraine and Syria be owning it versus—

02:35:13.860 So the Qatar Turkey pipeline is defunct. It's not going to happen.

02:35:17.120 Okay.

02:35:17.480 So the alternate method that the West has is if we can't offset the monopoly, we can control their access.

02:35:23.240 That means we're going to militaristically, or I should say through subterfuge and soft power,

02:35:28.760 restrict their ability to have access to this market.

02:35:31.560 Gotcha. Okay. So they are restricting the Russian monopoly on energy?

02:35:36.180 Attempting to.

02:35:36.680 Okay. Through soft power?

02:35:37.740 Right. And then you also—and through kinetic force.

02:35:41.160 Ukraine was accused by Germany, a Ukrainian national, at the behest of the government of bombing the Nord Stream 2 pipeline to shut down Russia's delivering of natural gas into Europe.

02:35:49.260 Right. Okay.

02:35:49.760 So that is the Ukrainians using a military force against NATO.

02:35:52.760 Right. So if that's true—

02:35:53.740 Allegedly.

02:35:54.020 That's true. Allegedly. Yeah. So if that's true, then the Ukraine is also potentially using kinetic force to try to interfere—

02:36:00.020 Against NATO.

02:36:01.120 —on the power situation.

02:36:03.440 So essentially you've got two big powers fighting over energy, which Russia has the monopoly on, and America is doing everything it can to weaken it and to reduce the control that Russia has over that power system.

02:36:13.980 Is that correct? Does that feel like an accurate summary?

02:36:15.800 I would say Russia is seeking to maintain its ability to trade in energy, as it is largely an energy exporter that's maintaining its economy.

02:36:23.720 The U.S. is trying to control the prices they sell to Europe.

02:36:27.020 Ukraine, in an effort to protect its sovereignty in the matter, has engaged in hostilities against NATO.

02:36:31.100 So—

02:36:31.540 Gotcha. And so the Nord Stream is there—

02:36:33.820 According to CBS News—

02:36:35.200 Yeah. Ukrainian. But is it like a military—

02:36:38.660 Right. Allegedly.

02:36:39.460 Gotcha. Okay. So it's not—

02:36:40.960 So we don't know for sure.

02:36:42.080 Okay. That's fine. And I'm not going to like ding you super hard over that.

02:36:44.860 So if I'm understanding—

02:36:45.900 It could be untrue.

02:36:46.420 But it is a soft power fight that happens, and basically Russia loses. Right?

02:36:50.660 They get stripped, and Russia goes, fuck that shit, and then they turn into a hard power fight. Right?

02:36:55.400 They don't just roll in, but they have lots of people in Crimea, they release the soldiers, they release the hounds, and they make a really big push for Kiev.

02:37:02.320 Probably because if you control the capital, you control the country, you can have bigger say on what's going on.

02:37:06.860 I'm assuming. I don't know what your reasoning is for Kiev, but essentially—

02:37:10.160 No, I don't think they—

02:37:12.180 Why'd they push for Kiev?

02:37:13.440 This is, to be completely honest, like conflict opinion. I don't think they pushed for Kiev.

02:37:18.860 I think that we saw the invasion from Belarus to the north as a pincer attack, so they could split the military forces of the Western powers and then seize the Donbass.

02:37:28.540 Because the military force they applied to the eastern land bridge into Crimea was substantially greater than they applied through Belarus in the north.

02:37:34.900 Sure. Okay. So essentially, soft power fight goes on, Russia loses, turns into a hard power fight, which you say Russia's wrong for doing that hard power piece.

02:37:43.480 Okay. So—

02:37:45.000 They crossed the line into the—you know, I don't think criminal is the right word because we're dealing with international conflict and crisis, but they aggressed.

02:37:51.420 Right. So I would fully grant that U.S. has used lots of soft power in Ukraine based on what you're saying.

02:37:55.600 Like, I'm not opposing that.

02:37:56.860 What I was asking for is evidence that right now there is U.S.-sanctioned soldiers that are operating front line, fighting, killing Russian soldiers, and controlling the Ukrainian military system to fight Russia directly, that we're in basically like a pseudo-hard war.

02:38:16.520 Right. What I offered up was a treatise on the history of the Ukraine conflict. I didn't say I was—I could have spent the last 20 minutes Google searching articles.

02:38:23.300 Sure. It's just—that's what I asked evidence for. So, like, I'm granting you all of this history.

02:38:27.420 The issue is that that doesn't necessarily prove the extraordinary claim, which is that U.S. is controlling the military of Ukraine and telling it what to do and has all this stuff.

02:38:36.920 I'm sure that it's important for training. I'm sure that it's important for facilitating in ammunitions.

02:38:41.980 And I'm sure that it is motivated to have Ukraine not lose to Russian control. But that isn't the same thing as what you're claiming.

02:38:48.820 Was this the guy who was a—

02:38:51.300 Well, we did go over, and we do have to wrap soon, but let me see if this is the guy.

02:38:56.700 Joseph Kofor Black, was that his name?

02:39:00.740 When the CIA installs—when CIA directors are installed as board members of foreign energy companies,

02:39:11.920 we tend to ask ourselves, what is the CIA doing in Ukraine?

02:39:15.260 And when you have the son of the vice president on the board alongside a CIA director, and, you know, going back to the history of this and U.S. involvement—

02:39:28.100 Wait, don't we know why the CIA would be involved in Ukraine?

02:39:30.500 There's a soft power struggle for control, right?

02:39:32.800 Which, to my point is, right now, first, let me say, I'm not going to pull up every article on what's called operational coordination in Ukraine.

02:39:41.460 We can go back.

02:39:42.260 There's also something to consider in that—

02:39:44.120 Like, the CIA is probably in tons and tons of countries, right?

02:39:47.780 Like, not just Ukraine.

02:39:48.780 The CIA is probably in Israel, in most of our allies, right?

02:39:52.360 Israel.

02:39:52.920 Yeah, well, for sure in Israel.

02:39:54.380 And it's probably also in a whole bunch of other countries that we're, like, allied with or, like, wanting to be allied with.

02:39:59.080 Because it's important to have embassies and, like, locus of control, like, military outposts in various locations.

02:40:05.260 Because geography matters in war.

02:40:06.580 Wow, look at this.

02:40:07.940 In the wake of the Hunter Biden email controversy, the Wall Street Journal reported blacks roll at the firm, Burisma, with a group of well-connected operatives in Washington to persuade Ukrainian prosecutors to drop criminal cases against it.

02:40:19.200 My point is, there is this game they're playing where Ukrainians and their international volunteer coalition, they call it, are the ones engaged in the hostilities.

02:40:31.820 These are not active-duty U.S. personnel.

02:40:34.300 Now, special forces are providing what's called operational coordination for the actions they take.

02:40:39.660 The U.S. is providing the weapons.

02:40:41.520 The intelligence and the weapons that were used to sink the flagship of Russia's Black Sea Fleet was the United States.

02:40:47.240 Yeah, we're sharing intelligence with them.

02:40:48.940 But having a U.S. military personnel look to a Ukrainian and say, if you press that button, my missile will be fired that will blow up a Russian vessel, it's silly to argue that's the Ukrainians who did it.

02:40:58.840 The issue is that if all the Ukrainians are rallying behind it, they support the war, they don't want to, like, lose the certain lands, like the Donbass and Crimea, and they're, like, have large, tremendous support for what's going on.

02:41:10.100 I'm sure that there is—

02:41:11.700 I think one of the largest mass migrations in human history is the Ukrainian exodus.

02:41:18.620 I'm sure people are fleeing the war, but that doesn't mean that Ukrainians aren't also supporting the war, right?

02:41:23.880 Like, lots of times civilians flee war-torn.

02:41:25.960 Like, lots of Afghanis left as well.

02:41:27.900 They're not having elections either.

02:41:30.060 The president—

02:41:30.540 Aren't they in martial law right now?

02:41:33.740 You don't typically do elections during that.

02:41:35.540 Lincoln did.

02:41:37.820 Sure, but, like, I don't—did Churchill even do that?

02:41:40.740 I don't know if the—

02:41:42.460 I don't know about the parliamentary system.

02:41:43.080 I think elections ceased during World War II for most of the democracies involved, right?

02:41:46.540 It's, like, super standard that democracies stop doing elections because if you're all of your—

02:41:51.060 Seven million—wow.

02:41:51.460 Well, hold on.

02:41:51.800 Let me, like, finish this argument, right?

02:41:53.260 If all of your money and your energy is invested towards fighting off what you view as an invading enemy, you don't have time to coordinate very expensive elections to go to the polls.

02:42:03.320 This is why martial law got instated after Lincoln because the real—

02:42:07.820 No, Lincoln instated martial law, suspended habeas corpus, arrested politicians, and still had an election.

02:42:11.420 So, do you think that, like, Winston Churchill was stupid for not having an election?

02:42:15.140 Is it true that he didn't have an election?

02:42:16.380 I'm not sure, but if he didn't, would that be stupid?

02:42:18.920 It could go either way depending on the circumstances.

02:42:20.920 I don't know.

02:42:21.380 You're talking about hypotheticals.

02:42:22.660 You don't even know the facts around it.

02:42:24.000 Sure.

02:42:24.440 Well, the hypothetical is that most democracies, when they have martial law, don't have elections, which I believe is true.

02:42:29.100 Except us.

02:42:29.720 Huh?

02:42:30.000 Except us.

02:42:31.720 You guys have also suspended elections during war.

02:42:34.680 Which ones?

02:42:35.440 I'm not sure.

02:42:36.180 My understanding is that you guys have.

02:42:38.180 You can look it up.

02:42:39.800 Maybe.

02:42:41.420 We have gone way over, so we do gotta go.

02:42:47.540 But I don't know if we have.

02:42:49.040 Abraham Lincoln famously held an election despite arresting a bunch of state legislators in Maryland.

02:42:52.920 Threatening to arrest—the U.S. has never suspended or canceled an election due to war.

02:42:57.040 Even during Civil War, World War I, and World War II.

02:42:59.720 Is that because they ended before the next election?

02:43:01.780 No, Lincoln had an election in the Civil War.

02:43:04.160 They just excluded the rebelling states.

02:43:06.660 Sure.

02:43:06.980 So the argument from the Ukrainians is, we can't hold elections in the occupied region, so we can't have an election.

02:43:11.440 It's like, what?

02:43:12.440 The U.S. did.

02:43:13.500 They're not like us, I guess.

02:43:14.520 Whatever.

02:43:15.200 I'm just saying, you know, let's just say this.

02:43:19.080 Let's just say the U.S. has no boots on the ground at all.

02:43:22.320 For the purpose of argument.

02:43:23.820 The U.S. should not be involved in Ukraine in this conflict.

02:43:26.380 I just disagree with that.

02:43:28.520 So to what degree do you think the U.S. should be involved?

02:43:30.640 I think that it should be sending support, arms, helping the Ukrainians fight off the invasion.

02:43:35.760 And my final thought is, once again, why young men don't want to be on the left or associated with Democrats.

02:43:40.360 Is not because of the Ukrainian war.

02:43:41.840 I'm saying a component is largely, like I mentioned, 70% of millennial women voting in favor of war policies, advocating for escalating a conflict to which could result in World War III, to which Russia recently threatened to Donald Trump after Trump called Putin crazy.

02:44:01.500 And you got a bunch of young guys who are in Gen Z who are on the first, who are first in line to be sent to Ukraine.

02:44:07.080 I got to tell you, there's not a single exit poll where young men cite the draft anywhere near the top of the reasons why they switched them.

02:44:14.000 No, I'm just saying it's a grain of sand making a heap.

02:44:17.180 The issue is that I'm really interested in the heap, which is what we came to talk about, right?

02:44:20.760 Right, and there's a few grains that are related to the fact that young men have to fight and die in wars and don't want to be involved in it.

02:44:25.960 And they're being told they should by women who don't.

02:44:28.060 It's not even by women in this case, like the—

02:44:30.520 No, I'm saying you specifically.

02:44:31.500 The war of Ukraine, well, first of all, I'm for women being drafted.

02:44:35.060 So I'm a woman saying I want to be equal.

02:44:37.500 And second of all, I'm also saying this isn't women.

02:44:39.660 In the case of war hawking, well, it's men and women.

02:44:42.300 It's governments, right?

02:44:43.220 Except the issue right now is that millennial women are two to one Democrat and Gen Z women are like three to two.

02:44:51.000 Why?

02:44:51.880 Is it the draft?

02:44:52.680 I think social order.

02:44:54.640 Like, why are women pro-war Ukraine?

02:44:56.300 Like, it doesn't make any sense.

02:44:58.840 Most women probably don't have too many thoughts about Ukraine.

02:45:01.240 But you get all the Democrats in Congress waving Ukraine flags and inviting their president to our country and offering them money.

02:45:08.280 And then you go to, like—we're in a rather mixed area, but if you go to, like, The Gap—it's the city they call The Gap—there's, like, Trump signs and then Ukraine flags.

02:45:17.540 And I'm like, what the fuck are these people flying Ukraine flags for?

02:45:20.100 Who are these people?

02:45:21.200 Probably a lot of them are Ukrainians.

02:45:22.380 And Democrats are skewing female on the younger generations.

02:45:25.380 Sure, but it's, again—

02:45:26.340 They're not Ukrainians, man.

02:45:27.720 It's not about the draft, though.

02:45:28.860 This idea that, like, the left—

02:45:29.960 No, it's about support for war.

02:45:30.800 Just, like, deranged and obsessed with Ukraine is just, like, super not true at all.

02:45:35.080 In fact, the Ukrainian war stopped being interesting to most average left people, like, probably four weeks, maybe five weeks after that.

02:45:43.160 Democrats are pro-Ukraine.

02:45:44.640 Yeah, but—

02:45:45.200 And my point—

02:45:45.900 My point—

02:45:46.400 I think Republicans are, too.

02:45:48.100 Half.

02:45:49.320 Yeah.

02:45:49.700 There's, like—there's that horseshoe theory that shows the maps of, like, Israel and Ukraine.

02:45:51.840 Right, like, Trump is being like, no, like, Putin's doing a lot of bad stuff.

02:45:54.660 He needs to stop doing what he's doing.

02:45:56.500 Okay, we do gotta wrap it up.

02:45:57.260 I don't think that Trump would be opposed to Russia having, like, a monopoly on energy.

02:46:00.860 Energy is the greatest bottleneck of all GDP and all growth in all countries in the entire world.

02:46:06.000 It's the most important thing.

02:46:07.480 I think Trump is mad because he wanted to go in there and say, Putin, knock it off, and Putin told him to fuck off.

02:46:11.600 And he was like, what?

02:46:12.840 So I don't think Trump cares about Ukraine.

02:46:14.380 I think he's personally slighted.

02:46:15.980 But we've gone way over.

02:46:17.000 This is an unfalsifiable worldview now.

02:46:19.000 That Trump is egotistical?

02:46:20.640 No, that essentially it's like, well, Republicans are anti-war, except for when they're upset.

02:46:25.400 And then when they're upset, it's justified.

02:46:27.560 And then Trump is justifiably.

02:46:29.200 It's just like, it's all.

02:46:30.240 That's the sophistry I've been talking about.

02:46:32.360 Sorry, you're the one, you're the one, like, engaging in this circle, right?

02:46:36.200 You made a point about Trump and Russia.

02:46:38.320 And I said, Trump's got an ego.

02:46:39.800 And now he's pissed off at Russia.

02:46:41.860 What does that have to do with, like, the factions of the right?

02:46:43.320 Republicans supporting Ukrainians?

02:46:45.400 Yeah, they, half, maybe?

02:46:48.300 Okay.

02:46:48.860 Yeah, so Republicans, at least half of them support Ukraine.

02:46:52.520 The principal MAGA coalition.

02:46:54.480 All I'm saying here is that people don't care that much about Ukraine on either side of the party.

02:46:58.640 Young men are not voting right because of Ukraine or the draft.

02:47:02.920 They're just not.

02:47:03.740 Okay, once again.

02:47:04.720 It's housing, economy, and probably ideology.

02:47:06.320 Indeed, which is why I said it's a grain of sand in the heap.

02:47:10.560 I didn't say.

02:47:11.520 Literally the only reason anybody wants to go to the right is because they're angry about Ukraine's, about U.S. involvement in Ukraine.

02:47:17.260 Well.

02:47:17.600 Never said it.

02:47:17.980 Sure, but then you also, like, flatten things to, like, see, you, this is the reason why men are leaving the left.

02:47:23.360 Because of the draft.

02:47:24.320 And it's like, this isn't it.

02:47:25.360 No, no, I didn't say the draft.

02:47:25.660 You did.

02:47:25.960 It's women wanting to send men to war.

02:47:27.960 You said that.

02:47:29.360 What?

02:47:29.580 But when I say this, I'm referring.

02:47:30.980 No, no, no.

02:47:31.240 You were referring to me.

02:47:32.380 Yes, the sophistry.

02:47:34.060 No, you were saying that I believe that men should go to war.

02:47:37.100 I'm a woman who votes left.

02:47:38.720 Right?

02:47:39.120 Yeah.

02:47:39.800 Okay, so that I'm the reason that men are going to the right.

02:47:42.700 And I'm saying.

02:47:43.680 Let's just try this.

02:47:44.380 This is not it.

02:47:45.420 Philosophically, the point I'm making is there's a dude sitting back watching this right now who doesn't know much about Ukraine at all, nor cares.

02:47:51.800 And he's like, why is this lady so hell-bent on, like, us being involved in this war?

02:47:56.360 That's my point.

02:47:57.840 Because sovereignty matters.

02:47:59.800 It's important that Russia doesn't push borders, which it has always done.

02:48:02.440 You can talk to Belarus and Poland.

02:48:03.880 Why is it important?

02:48:04.180 Because Russia has a historical history of being highly tyrannical.

02:48:07.760 What about China?

02:48:08.260 And consumptive.

02:48:09.160 China is like that, but not really.

02:48:11.500 What do you mean?

02:48:11.880 They've been sinking ships in the South China Sea.

02:48:13.500 They've been killing Vietnamese fishermen.

02:48:14.680 Yeah, China is expansionary, but they're expansionary around the nine-dotted line, which is very different than Russia's expansionary.

02:48:19.880 They're flying sorties over Taiwan.

02:48:21.480 I just don't know why we're comparing these two countries.

02:48:23.300 China does lots of bad stuff, too.

02:48:24.640 Because other countries exist.

02:48:25.420 Not really pro-China.

02:48:27.020 Yes, we live in a society.

02:48:28.080 That's true.

02:48:28.660 Should we send military aid to, like, India and Pakistan, depending on which one we want?

02:48:35.340 I think we're going to side with India, probably.

02:48:36.620 I think we have better trade relations with India, so we'd probably side with India.

02:48:40.440 Should we, right now, of the Kashmir conflict?

02:48:42.820 China's got involvement in that.

02:48:44.100 Yeah, I don't know anything about that, and when you look into the history of it, it is...

02:48:48.680 What about the Uyghur Muslims?

02:48:49.640 Well, hold on.

02:48:50.040 It's a classic Sykes-Picot, like, fuckery.

02:48:52.820 So, I don't know.

02:48:53.660 Like, when you want to go, like, well, where should we be sided with with another Sykes-Picot Middle Eastern boundary issue?

02:48:59.160 It's like, I'm not really sure, because everything, every single boundary line that was raw was complicated.

02:49:04.060 Why Russia, then?

02:49:05.300 Why should we oppose Russia?

02:49:06.600 Why is Russia more important than literally any other border conflict in the world?

02:49:10.460 Because they're the greatest superpower opposing America.

02:49:12.900 Russia is.

02:49:13.860 Yes.

02:49:14.400 Not China.

02:49:15.240 China's probably competing now, because Russia's, like, blown a lot of its money on the war.

02:49:19.060 How many people live in Russia?

02:49:20.580 I don't know.

02:49:21.300 More live in China.

02:49:22.400 The problem is that they're not educated, right?

02:49:23.860 I think...

02:49:24.180 How much money is spent to influence...

02:49:25.920 Wait, what's the literacy rate between Chinese and Russians?

02:49:27.800 I'm going to guess Russians are more literate than Chinese.

02:49:29.940 So, their workflow...

02:49:30.660 I don't think so, actually.

02:49:31.860 Really?

02:49:32.280 I don't know.

02:49:32.900 But I'd argue that a communist system is going to have higher rates, either lying about it or forcing it.

02:49:38.960 You know what I mean?

02:49:40.960 Very, very unlikely.

02:49:42.380 I guess if they keep excluding, like, ethnic minorities and things like that, then they're going to have a high literacy rate, though.

02:49:48.900 Yeah.

02:49:49.540 Like, China is, like, a new threat to the global order, for sure.

02:49:53.800 And I think it would be better if we tried to find a way to have peace with them.

02:49:56.900 Absolutely.

02:49:57.260 I'm for peace, by and large.

02:49:59.580 I want...

02:50:00.160 What I really want in the world is that we have trade negotiations and relationships with everyone so that there is economic benefit for everyone to work together.

02:50:07.560 I think we should use the systems of capitalism that is good at turning human greed and power consumption to good ends, which is things like having trade negotiations with countries that we have tensions with.

02:50:18.240 This is the Israel model for making peace with, like, Behran and the UAE.

02:50:21.820 And I think it's a good model.

02:50:22.900 It's what America did to have peace with the multiple countries.

02:50:24.540 You think about Burma?

02:50:25.060 I don't know anything about Burma.

02:50:28.320 Burma.

02:50:28.900 Why don't I know anything about Burma?

02:50:30.400 Because I can't know all infinite things.

02:50:32.340 So, I'll frame it this way, then.

02:50:34.860 There seems to be a social order to the interest in Russia that doesn't exist for other nations.

02:50:40.520 Probably, yeah.

02:50:41.200 And so, when it comes down to, once again, a guy sitting back drinking a Coke or something or a spindrift and watching a show like this or Liquid Death, he's like, I don't know why I should care about Russia over literally any other conflict in the world.

02:50:55.860 You shouldn't.

02:50:56.500 You should care about housing, economics, and the fact that, like, you feel that you have no purpose.

02:51:01.580 Yeah, we do, but then I also have children, you know what I mean?

02:51:04.640 I'm the guy, you know?

02:51:06.480 And I also have children.

02:51:07.380 And I don't feel like raising my son to potentially be drafted for some hot war because we're getting more and more involved in this.

02:51:15.340 Nobody wants to go.

02:51:16.540 Yeah, but it's easy to say that without skin in the game.

02:51:19.020 Well, no.

02:51:19.300 No, because if I have sons, I also don't want them to go to war, and I have a husband, and I also don't want him to go to war.

02:51:25.800 But you'll sit and vehemently advocate for this stuff.

02:51:29.520 Well, hold on.

02:51:30.340 I've advocated for peace and economic trades, and I think war is always a tragic situation.

02:51:34.520 I would agree with you that when the soft war was won in Ukraine, Russia shouldn't have invaded.

02:51:38.760 That was bad.

02:51:39.380 But what do you think would happen if the U.S. had zero involvement in any capacity or NATO in Ukraine?

02:51:46.160 Ukraine would have been consumed by Russia.

02:51:47.840 And what does that look like afterwards?

02:51:49.480 For Ukrainians?

02:51:50.200 Yes.

02:51:50.700 Probably not very good.

02:51:52.140 Why?

02:51:52.560 Because the entire history of Russia consuming, particularly Ukraine, who seem very, very rebellious and resistant to being consumed, is fractious.

02:52:02.180 Holodomor, not good.

02:52:03.700 Lots of really awful things happen every time Russia has control of Ukraine.

02:52:07.420 Holodomor is just the first one.

02:52:08.760 The Red Scare, right?

02:52:10.200 The Bolsheviks hated Ukrainians, and then the Leninites hated Ukrainians, and then the Stalinites hated Ukrainians, and then we had like four years with Gorbachev.

02:52:17.760 That was like kind of base because he was like, let's just work with all of the global powers.

02:52:22.200 And then he fell.

02:52:23.140 Do you think more or less people would be dead?

02:52:27.640 In Ukraine?

02:52:28.300 Yeah.

02:52:29.480 Probably less people.

02:52:30.780 So more Ukrainians would be alive.

02:52:33.600 There's things that you value more than your life.

02:52:37.160 Should the U.S. be involved in someone else's ideological battle is the question, I suppose.

02:52:41.240 We involve ourselves in other people's ideological battles all the time.

02:52:43.680 And that's another grain of sand in the heap of why young men are moving to the right.

02:52:47.500 I don't know how—I guess I would tell young men—genuinely, I would tell young men, I'm sorry, you need to look at foreign systems and how they work.

02:52:54.740 If you don't want America involved in like other countries, then isolationist policy—

02:52:59.780 Yeah, we're not talking about isolationist.

02:53:01.240 See, that's sophistry right there.

02:53:02.280 It's not sophistry.

02:53:03.540 It's not sophistry.

02:53:04.760 What's the alternative?

02:53:06.320 Saying we don't want U.S. military involvement in a foreign country's war is not isolationism.

02:53:11.300 And this is the Bush-era issue that I think pushes a lot of disaffected liberals to the right.

02:53:16.320 This is not just Bush-era.

02:53:17.540 In the Bush-era, when we said things like, why are we at war with Iraq and Afghanistan, the answer from the neocons was isolationism doesn't work.

02:53:25.940 And when I was talking to Sebastian Gorka recently, he said something similar to that.

02:53:28.680 But he did concede, we don't want regime change intervention in the Trump administration.

02:53:34.540 Agreed.

02:53:35.320 But he said, the Houthis, we can't just remove ourselves completely, so we're going to do surgical strikes.

02:53:40.660 Why not?

02:53:42.160 In this view—

02:53:43.880 In Yemen, why can't we remove ourselves entirely from being violent to the Houthis?

02:53:47.680 The U.S. view is that the Houthis are obstructing a major trade route with the Sinai Peninsula and the Arab—what is it?

02:53:55.220 The Red Sea and the Gulf of—not Oman, is it?

02:53:59.280 Gulf of Aden.

02:53:59.960 Aden.

02:54:00.200 Aden.

02:54:01.080 And so with the Houthis striking trade vessels, the Trump administration's view on this is we have to stop them from shutting down global trade.

02:54:10.420 The problem for us in America is, why should I care?

02:54:13.580 Our trade doesn't go through there.

02:54:15.020 Why are we the world police?

02:54:16.620 And there's a lot of people who have been asking this question for 20 years, and we've repeatedly gotten responses from warmongers of both parties.

02:54:24.460 We have to do it because no one else can.

02:54:27.080 There's never been a—

02:54:27.740 And American bonds, right?

02:54:30.220 Like, we're not gold-backed.

02:54:31.640 We're basically fiat-backed.

02:54:33.220 Indeed.

02:54:33.840 The argument is—

02:54:34.860 So, seriously—

02:54:36.460 Forcing the petrodollar.

02:54:37.280 U.S. bonds.

02:54:38.200 Controlling—

02:54:38.320 What would happen to U.S. bonds if we just pulled out—

02:54:40.440 I don't know about directly U.S. bonds, but the petrodollar is probably a better way to describe this.

02:54:44.900 U.S. bonds is probably more important for understanding the global reaction to how people view a country as stable or not, right?

02:54:50.060 Indeed, but the petrodollar matters more because we don't produce things.

02:54:52.980 The United States is largely a service economy because what we produce is global policing, and we force—

02:54:57.980 When you say matters more, what do you mean by that?

02:54:59.340 Sorry.

02:55:00.080 Not to interrupt.

02:55:00.600 I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.

02:55:01.820 The petrodollar—you're familiar with the system of the petrodollar.

02:55:05.040 We don't export anything.

02:55:06.500 Like, we do, but, like, functionally, we don't.

02:55:09.040 We export finalized products, so we need gas to move the products back and forth.

02:55:12.820 The U.S. is not an exporting nation.

02:55:15.260 We do export things like movies we make money off of, but the main reason the U.S. has wealth is not because we are an exporter,

02:55:21.400 which you typically need to be increasing the wealth of a nation.

02:55:24.820 We are a petrodollar nation that points cannons and artillery at countries who defy the petrodollar.

02:55:31.120 So if you say, I want to trade oil on something else, we say, that's great.

02:55:34.260 We'll kill you.

02:55:35.100 And then what happens?

02:55:35.980 The U.S. launches no-fly zones, blows up world leaders, kidnaps and kills them, or stages coups and things like this.

02:55:42.900 So, like, typically what the CIA does with USAID and things like that.

02:55:45.660 So the purpose for U.S. involvement with, say, the Houthis or Ukraine is largely about maintaining a global,

02:55:52.960 what we refer to as the liberal economic system of maintaining control of the international monetary system through the IMF,

02:55:58.500 through the World Bank, through the SWIFT payment systems, functionally advancements on the petrodollar.

02:56:03.100 Now, I think that's all stupid bullshit from a bygone era that has failed us and is currently on the verge of collapse.

02:56:10.100 The U.S. should be focusing its resources on securing its border, fixing its roads, getting kids in school, increasing literacy,

02:56:15.940 maybe working on better means of energy generation, and restoring manufacturing to the United States.

02:56:21.940 When you then look at Ukraine and you're wondering why we're exerting so much of our influence and resources over that country,

02:56:26.820 once again, it's because Russia is trying to secure access to its energy.

02:56:30.840 They want to start trading with China and the Saudis outside of the U.S.

02:56:34.380 The U.S. just lost their 50-year contract with the Saudis, so we're now going to start trading oil outside of the petrodollar.

02:56:40.100 And we're at risk of World War III because of this.

02:56:43.220 However, we're an hour over. I do have to go. Sorry. Thank you for coming.

02:56:45.720 No, I'm sorry. Thank you.

02:56:46.780 Yeah, this was fun. And Nacho, it was great having you as well.

02:56:50.580 Sorry for not talking about men and talking about Ukraine for two hours.

02:56:54.360 I came prepped about men and should have prepped for Ukraine, apparently.

02:56:57.400 Although I'm not the expert on Ukraine. You can have other people.

02:57:00.060 We got a nice lecture, though.

02:57:01.060 I don't even consider myself to be an expert, but I certainly think that I know more having just experienced a bit of it.

02:57:06.200 But I'll leave it at that.

02:57:07.200 My friends, this was fun. And thank you for going extra on everything.

02:57:09.620 There's food downstairs.

02:57:10.900 We are going to be back tonight at 8 p.m. for YouTube.com.

02:57:13.660 I'm sorry, Rumble.com slash TimCastirel.

02:57:15.480 Excuse me.

02:57:16.620 And 8 p.m., we will see you there. It'll be fun.

02:57:18.480 All right, we'll see you there.

02:57:25.160 2.

The Culture War - Tim Pool - May 30, 2025

Why Men Are LEAVING The Left, Society's ATTACK On Masculinity w⧸ Kyla Turner & Nacho

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