The Culture War - Tim Pool - Woke Has INFECTED Goth, Punk, & Metal, MAGA Must Save the Arts w⧸ Phil Labonte, Jake Munro, & Brian Graupner

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00:01:06.700 Get woke, go broke.

00:01:09.200 Everything woke turns to esh.

00:01:11.340 People are saying this a lot

00:01:12.640 because of the election of Donald Trump

00:01:14.080 and what seems to be a shift in the culture.

00:01:17.820 But it is our opinion that woke is not dead.

00:01:22.240 The monster's still alive and it still has a massive influence,

00:01:26.200 particularly in counterculture areas.

00:01:29.160 So joining us today to talk about that.

00:01:31.520 Oh, actually, you know what?

00:01:32.200 We have to do a sponsor, right?

00:01:33.800 Okay, so we're going to shoot to the sponsor

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00:02:48.020 So joining us today to talk about the counterculture,

00:02:52.240 the metal, goth, industrial scenes,

00:02:55.660 we've got Jake Monroe and Brian from Gasoline Industrial.

00:02:59.320 Can you guys go ahead and,

00:03:00.360 I'm sorry, Gasoline Invertebrate, my apologies.

00:03:02.240 Either one.

00:03:03.180 Go ahead and introduce yourselves,

00:03:04.800 tell the crowd what your deal is.

00:03:07.440 Sure.

00:03:07.880 I am Jake Monroe.

00:03:09.100 I am a serial disruptor

00:03:10.820 of the alternative subcultures of the moment.

00:03:13.720 Most hated man in these countercultures,

00:03:15.920 and proudly so.

00:03:17.240 I can't wait to be even more irritating

00:03:19.640 after this podcast.

00:03:20.640 Perfect.

00:03:21.660 Brian?

00:03:22.200 Hey, what's up?

00:03:22.880 My name is Brian Graupner.

00:03:24.040 I do a couple industrial bands,

00:03:25.560 The Goths of Gold's Gasoline Invertebrate.

00:03:27.260 I do a Space Couch podcast called Space Couch

00:03:30.080 affiliated with Goths Against Cancel Culture

00:03:34.240 as founded by Crucifera.

00:03:36.480 And I am a massive fan of everybody in this room.

00:03:38.900 This is like the coolest thing I've ever done.

00:03:40.240 A big fan of you too, man.

00:03:41.240 Awesome.

00:03:41.560 And we got Kellen here pushing the buttons.

00:03:43.200 Yeah, I'm going to have to turn my camera on,

00:03:44.740 but I'm here too, and let's get into it, guys.

00:03:46.880 I know nothing about this culture.

00:03:48.620 I've been to a few raves, but...

00:03:50.420 Well, that's good, because I know everything.

00:03:52.040 Perfect.

00:03:52.540 Perfect.

00:03:53.000 Can't wait.

00:03:54.160 All right.

00:03:54.600 So, like I said before,

00:03:56.280 there is a common refrain that you're hearing

00:03:59.280 that awoke is dead,

00:04:00.840 that people are tired of it.

00:04:02.320 And I don't know if that's actually the truth,

00:04:05.980 and so I'd be interested in hearing,

00:04:08.180 particularly in counterculture spaces, right?

00:04:10.480 Like, I feel like that's where kind of woke

00:04:12.940 really started to get its legs under itself

00:04:16.520 is in counterculture spaces,

00:04:18.260 in places online when there used to be an underground.

00:04:20.980 I'm strongly of the opinion

00:04:22.700 there is no longer an underground,

00:04:24.760 that the idea of an underground

00:04:26.780 has basically been vaporized

00:04:29.320 because of the internet.

00:04:30.560 It used to be where you'd have to go and find things,

00:04:33.720 like you'd have to actually physically go to a place

00:04:36.020 to interact with people

00:04:37.900 that have counterculture ideas

00:04:39.940 or in a space that you consider the underground.

00:04:43.700 Now it's just a few clicks away.

00:04:45.260 But the idea that woke is actually done

00:04:47.820 is something that, like I said,

00:04:49.480 I would push back against,

00:04:50.460 and I think that you guys probably agree,

00:04:51.880 but I'd like to hear your opinion and your experience.

00:04:54.240 I mean, with woke being dead

00:04:55.720 definitely refers to the mainstream spaces.

00:04:58.040 You know, there's definitely been a sort of societal rejection

00:05:01.360 of things like with movies and TV shows.

00:05:04.280 Like, we don't want this in here anymore.

00:05:07.500 You know, you have like these serial flops

00:05:09.980 from movies and stuff like that.

00:05:11.640 And there's a societal rejection of this.

00:05:14.840 However, it is now shifting to its last bastion,

00:05:19.660 which is alternative subculture.

00:05:21.260 Because like you said, Phil,

00:05:22.080 it has always had an aspect of like,

00:05:26.140 at least that's where woke has come from.

00:05:27.580 That's what woke looks like.

00:05:29.000 It looks like alternative subcultures.

00:05:31.420 So to that point,

00:05:32.700 everyone has the image in their head

00:05:36.020 of the blue-haired piercings.

00:05:38.780 It used to be cool.

00:05:39.760 Yeah, exactly.

00:05:41.080 This all used to be cool.

00:05:42.120 It's not cool anymore.

00:05:43.440 Yeah.

00:05:43.780 And that's the whole point.

00:05:44.700 Like, make goth cool again,

00:05:46.340 is what I'm trying to say.

00:05:46.960 Ever since you could go to the mall

00:05:49.140 and get your tongue or septum or ears pierced,

00:05:52.640 or a facial piercing,

00:05:54.280 if you can go to the mall

00:05:55.660 and get studs put into your cheek,

00:05:57.960 it's no longer underground.

00:05:59.820 It's no longer counterculture.

00:06:01.100 Yeah.

00:06:01.440 I mean, that stuff was relatively inoffensive

00:06:04.380 when you really,

00:06:04.940 it's all superficial, you know?

00:06:06.460 Like, these piercings can be taken out,

00:06:09.000 tattoos can be removed.

00:06:10.740 But of course, now there's,

00:06:11.780 with the woke movement,

00:06:12.700 there has been a far more permanent addition

00:06:15.380 to a lot of the ideologies,

00:06:16.820 which is obviously the gender ideologies

00:06:18.640 that has been introduced,

00:06:20.340 which I think mainly is the,

00:06:21.700 I think the largest contention people have

00:06:24.380 in mainstream with woke culture.

00:06:27.780 And there's no small amount of that

00:06:30.320 in alternative subcultures at the moment.

00:06:33.180 But yes, it is shifting out of mainstream.

00:06:36.660 And there definitely is a fight,

00:06:38.100 like, you know, here on the mainstream.

00:06:40.860 There's mainstream voices.

00:06:41.780 But me and Brian here are the sort of,

00:06:44.840 the alternative voices that sort of contest

00:06:47.020 the woke ideology,

00:06:48.780 because wokeness is, by its very operation,

00:06:52.720 a form of conformity.

00:06:54.520 And alternative and countercultures

00:06:56.160 are meant to renounce any form of conformity.

00:06:59.200 And we're just trying to reform the subcultures

00:07:02.000 the best we can, despite the noise, Brian.

00:07:05.060 I mean, you can attest to some of the contentions

00:07:08.780 that you've had over the years.

00:07:10.200 The opposing, the rules are sort of assigned

00:07:16.040 when you, I don't know,

00:07:18.020 elect to go down this darkened path,

00:07:20.560 like sign up at your local Hot Topic or whatever.

00:07:23.100 Yeah.

00:07:23.760 If you, Hot Topic really was kind of like the first,

00:07:26.660 the first thing where people were like,

00:07:28.220 oh, wait a minute, maybe this is mainstream.

00:07:30.620 And again, I bring up the mall, right?

00:07:32.220 Like the mall was in the United States, at least.

00:07:35.280 And I think that it's probably different in the UK,

00:07:37.640 but not significantly because the cultures have shared

00:07:40.900 so much in common for at least as long

00:07:43.860 as the U.S. has been a country.

00:07:46.200 The fact that you can go to the mall

00:07:49.120 and see what is popular, what is cool,

00:07:53.020 see what is also mainstream and Hot Topic

00:07:56.400 had become and still probably is,

00:07:59.140 kind of the corporatist, superficial demonstration

00:08:05.640 of the quote-unquote underground subculture.

00:08:09.380 Sterilized.

00:08:09.980 Yeah.

00:08:10.220 What's your experience with that, Brian?

00:08:11.500 I mean, yeah, that it was a weird thing to be,

00:08:16.240 to like Hot Topic was sort of like,

00:08:18.440 I mean, it's the whole thing shifted,

00:08:19.840 I think, when the logo changed from the flaming thing

00:08:22.380 into the block letters that they have now.

00:08:25.560 But yeah, I mean, I only brought up Hot Topic

00:08:29.160 just because it was sort of this weird incursion

00:08:33.860 into what was such an underground thing

00:08:36.940 that you can, it's now next to the juxtapose

00:08:39.360 at the mall, but the...

00:08:41.940 It's Hot Topic, PacSun, Forever 21, right?

00:08:44.820 Right.

00:08:45.300 And it would just abut the edge of what's really subversive.

00:08:51.020 But even then, I mean, I don't recall, like,

00:08:58.400 getting, signing off on a set of beliefs

00:09:01.240 just because I like to listen to Suicide Commando

00:09:03.560 or something like that.

00:09:04.640 Like, well, you like this band, so you must believe that.

00:09:08.040 I mean, you have to, right?

00:09:09.260 Like, no?

00:09:10.680 Have you guys heard of the store called Spencer's?

00:09:13.400 Sure.

00:09:14.020 So we have a lot of those.

00:09:15.360 I don't see many Hot Topics anymore.

00:09:16.740 But it used to be, like, a similar store to Hot Topic.

00:09:19.360 A lot of skateboarding and stuff.

00:09:20.820 They still do have a lot of skateboarding.

00:09:21.960 But you go in there now, there's, like,

00:09:23.860 all this, like, lefty edgelord, like, magnets and T-shirts.

00:09:27.800 But the worst part is the amount of adult toys for women.

00:09:31.160 And it's insane.

00:09:31.980 Like, this used to be a skateboard shop,

00:09:33.540 and, like, I'm not familiar with, like, goth or punk,

00:09:35.900 like, which one.

00:09:36.480 But it was part of this culture that you guys were talking about.

00:09:38.880 And nowadays, it's unrecognizable.

00:09:40.800 Yeah.

00:09:40.880 I think that the fact, I think this speaks to the idea that we kind of touched on before,

00:09:46.480 that the underground used to be more than just window dressing.

00:09:51.580 And I think that when you put it, once you get the imagery and the style into your major,

00:09:58.860 you know, mall outlets,

00:10:00.420 that kind of shows that it's no longer underground.

00:10:05.600 I mean, so when I was growing up, when I was a kid,

00:10:07.860 and this is, you know, going back a long time,

00:10:09.360 but, like, I had to go to a specific store that was, you know,

00:10:13.980 like, half an hour from my house.

00:10:15.700 And I'm 14, 15 years old, so I had to get a ride from mom, you know,

00:10:18.940 if I wanted to listen to death metal bands, right?

00:10:21.440 If I wanted to find the latest release from whatever European death metal band,

00:10:26.680 I had to go to this place called the Music Outlet.

00:10:29.580 And if I went down there, you couldn't just open it up and listen to it.

00:10:33.220 You had to go ahead and look at the cover and be like,

00:10:35.480 ooh, this one looks cool.

00:10:36.640 That's why vinyls was so big, man.

00:10:37.960 So, like, they told the story of the band on the front there.

00:10:40.700 You had to bring it home, and you were like, hopefully that you liked it.

00:10:43.040 Right.

00:10:43.540 But maybe you didn't.

00:10:45.020 And that...

00:10:45.420 And then just hope it was on the kiosk.

00:10:46.920 Yeah, right.

00:10:48.300 But it was a commitment, and it took effort.

00:10:51.340 Nowadays, if you want to find something that looks counterculture,

00:10:55.740 it's only a Google search away.

00:10:57.620 Yeah.

00:10:58.140 Well, you know, to perfectly sort of confer what you said there

00:11:03.400 about social media sort of ruining the underground,

00:11:06.500 the mall was sort of this place where social interaction sort of reigns supreme.

00:11:11.300 And I don't know if you've ever met any alternative kids.

00:11:13.320 They're not the most outgoing, right?

00:11:15.200 They are not.

00:11:15.880 That's part of the reason why they're kind of looking for the alternative lifestyle.

00:11:19.600 Right.

00:11:19.620 They're the most non-confrontational types of people.

00:11:22.260 So, you know, you could go to the mall back in the 90s and the early 2000s,

00:11:27.360 you know, pre-social media being the prevalent way for people to communicate.

00:11:32.360 And you could maybe have some conflicting ideologies with someone,

00:11:36.400 but you're not going to bring this up because that would start an argument,

00:11:38.160 and that's horrible, right?

00:11:38.940 That's the worst thing ever.

00:11:40.360 So the one unifier you had with all those around you

00:11:43.940 was the stuff that made you all happy,

00:11:45.240 the stuff you could all talk about,

00:11:46.460 which was, you know, the clothes and the music

00:11:47.940 and, you know, the video games that you're playing at the time

00:11:49.840 because, like, 2003, 2004, all the video games were edgy as hell.

00:11:54.140 You had Devil May Cry and you had...

00:11:55.940 The Jake Monroe game itself.

00:11:57.320 Yeah, Devil May Cry 3, the Jake Monroe game itself.

00:12:00.140 That's right there.

00:12:00.700 Me and my brother fighting for Eternally.

00:12:02.540 And you also had Silent Hill, right?

00:12:05.540 It was like just everything back then was edgy.

00:12:07.980 Gears of War.

00:12:08.620 Oh, yeah.

00:12:09.100 Industrial.

00:12:09.420 Everything back then was, like, edgy and cool and goth and shit, right?

00:12:12.180 So you could talk about all this stuff forever.

00:12:14.140 And then the migration happened, right?

00:12:17.760 They sort of receded into the safety of their bedrooms

00:12:21.660 and now you could have these mall meetups digitally.

00:12:24.540 Right.

00:12:24.920 And they all suddenly became way braver.

00:12:27.420 Oh, yeah.

00:12:27.980 Yeah.

00:12:28.540 I can tell that's where you're going with it.

00:12:29.900 Yeah, right.

00:12:30.360 And whenever you go to social media, because you're no longer confined within a mall,

00:12:37.160 social media naturally spreads and can be shared and people can grow

00:12:43.740 and people can get followings and stuff like that.

00:12:45.260 So, yeah, I think that was definitely the end of the underground there.

00:12:48.460 But also, I think Linkin Park also ruined everything as well.

00:12:50.980 Whoa.

00:12:52.560 Don't get me wrong.

00:12:53.320 I love hybrid theory and all that kind of stuff.

00:12:54.920 But, like, when they took new metal mainstream and then Korn decided to stop doing it.

00:13:00.400 Yeah, because I, like, grew up with Linkin Park, you know?

00:13:03.180 And, like, that's my idea of, like, I don't want to say heavy metal,

00:13:06.620 but, like, punk and just that kind of, like, alt culture.

00:13:10.100 It was a gateway drug made of a lot of people.

00:13:11.700 Yeah.

00:13:12.000 Yeah.

00:13:12.420 And I think to your point, again, not trying to sound like I'm criticizing Linkin Park.

00:13:17.800 There are a lot of people that would say that all that remains is what modern,

00:13:22.480 it would be commercial metal nowadays, which is fine with me.

00:13:25.920 But the idea that you had to have, you know, had to,

00:13:30.680 that you were looking to make abrasive music, right?

00:13:33.120 You were looking to make music that intentionally wasn't for everybody.

00:13:37.440 You were looking for a style that intentionally wasn't for everybody, right?

00:13:41.460 It was supposed to keep people that were looking to be accepted in the mainstream.

00:13:49.140 It was supposed to keep those people out.

00:13:50.800 And it wasn't that, and we, and I say we, speaking as three guys that kind of come from that scene.

00:13:57.000 Yeah, I totally agree with that.

00:13:57.980 It wasn't that we were intending to exclude anyone.

00:14:01.440 It's just that the imagery and the music, that did that for us.

00:14:06.960 Yeah.

00:14:07.040 We weren't keeping you out.

00:14:09.280 You were welcome if you liked it.

00:14:10.460 Yeah.

00:14:10.640 And it didn't matter, you know, what, what your, what your, your personal opinions were about anything else.

00:14:17.380 It was just like, if you like this music, if you like this style,

00:14:20.300 you can come to shows and you can hang out and we'll be cool.

00:14:23.500 It's fine.

00:14:23.900 Yeah.

00:14:24.940 The fact that the imagery kept people away, that was good enough for us.

00:14:29.900 Yeah.

00:14:30.260 You know, and, and it, it was a great, great filter.

00:14:32.860 It was a great sorting mechanism.

00:14:35.500 And, and so you didn't have that kind of gatekeeping.

00:14:39.320 Yeah.

00:14:39.600 By people with, with saying, well, you don't have the right opinion.

00:14:42.760 Right.

00:14:43.000 So you have to be kept out.

00:14:44.140 You, you think you like, you like something that, that doesn't fit in here.

00:14:47.680 So you have to be kept out.

00:14:48.660 It was a thought crime.

00:14:49.760 Yeah, exactly.

00:14:50.580 It was, there was no thought crime.

00:14:51.620 And, and the edginess was part of it.

00:14:53.520 So I, I, oftentimes people love, I see people that are saying, people say this to me on

00:14:58.680 the internet.

00:14:58.980 They're like, oh, well, you know, punk rock would hate you.

00:15:01.660 And punk rock's about, you know, these particular politically correct opinions.

00:15:06.040 Unbelievable.

00:15:06.580 And I'm like, well, you know, I remember there's, there's pictures floating around of,

00:15:10.440 you know, Sid Vicious from the eighties wearing a swastika.

00:15:12.920 Yeah.

00:15:13.380 You know, you could, you could get those from, um, what was the name of the street in London?

00:15:18.100 You could get all those clothes from it.

00:15:19.420 Hamden?

00:15:20.040 No, no, no.

00:15:20.780 Vivian Westwood came from it.

00:15:21.880 She worked there.

00:15:22.880 And then, and then she went on and she managed, uh, I think the, the Sex Pistols.

00:15:28.040 It was that shop.

00:15:28.860 And you could, you could get swastika stuff there and all sorts of, all sorts of really

00:15:32.360 ambiguous, uh, slogan clothing that meant anything and nothing.

00:15:36.140 And if you saw punk in the, in the late eighties or early nineties wearing that stuff,

00:15:40.340 you didn't think that they actually were, were white nationalists.

00:15:44.540 You kind of generally thought that maybe, you know, they're, they're just trying to be

00:15:48.460 edgy.

00:15:48.780 And, and, but the imagery, again, the imagery is what kept normal people out as opposed

00:15:54.300 to the, the attempts to, to manage what people think and, and thought crime stuff.

00:16:00.560 Yeah.

00:16:00.780 It's amazing to me that now punk rock is, uh, do what the government tells you.

00:16:05.380 Like if you don't get the shot.

00:16:07.140 The communist subsidization.

00:16:09.140 So love.

00:16:10.760 It's, it's, it's unreal.

00:16:12.660 Like if I don't, uh, follow with the opinions of what the government is and do it, you tell

00:16:19.180 me I'm not punk anymore.

00:16:20.220 Like it's, we're in clown world a thousand percent, especially in alt world.

00:16:24.320 I think it's just a game of telephone with punk to be honest, because punk always had

00:16:28.480 this anarchic side to it.

00:16:29.840 Anarchism.

00:16:30.500 Yeah.

00:16:30.720 Which is always the first part of communism, right?

00:16:32.960 Which is tear it all down.

00:16:33.980 And then obviously rebuild and everything, you know, everything for everyone, by everybody,

00:16:37.360 except the ones who have the money and all the stuff, not their stuff.

00:16:40.560 Yeah.

00:16:40.840 Everyone else's stuff.

00:16:41.720 Yeah.

00:16:41.880 But, uh, uh, anarchism was always the first step of communism, which is, you know, destroy

00:16:46.520 the system.

00:16:47.660 I don't care.

00:16:48.220 Bring it all down.

00:16:48.900 And then maybe we'll have something there for everybody after.

00:16:51.420 I think if you talk to, to anarchists and I'm not talking about the modern anarchists,

00:16:55.940 because again, everything is so watered down.

00:16:58.220 The definitions have changed.

00:16:58.940 So, you know, but if you talk to anarchists back in the day, I, I'm not so sure that, and

00:17:04.080 not that I'm, I'm pushing back on your point because I agree with you.

00:17:07.460 Modern anarchists, it's, it's, it's almost always anarcho, uh, anarcho, uh,

00:17:11.880 anarcho-communist.

00:17:12.500 Yes, exactly.

00:17:13.140 Yeah.

00:17:13.340 The anarchy is, is actually a cover for the, to bring in, um, the social control that,

00:17:21.600 that comes with communism, the, the, the single mindedness.

00:17:24.980 Yeah.

00:17:25.260 Um, but I don't imagine, or it wasn't my experience that if I talked to anarchists back in the day

00:17:30.680 that they actually had a, a coherent ideology beyond tear it all down.

00:17:36.420 Yeah.

00:17:36.600 Right.

00:17:36.880 Like back in the day when punks were like, oh, you know, I'm going to, I'm, I'm an anarchist

00:17:40.880 because F the government and I just want to get drunk.

00:17:43.500 They weren't thinking about, okay, F the government, tear it all down.

00:17:46.760 So that way we can rebuild and rebuilding wasn't in the cards.

00:17:51.000 You did not see John Lydon rebuilding anything.

00:17:53.180 Yeah.

00:17:53.360 Right.

00:17:54.780 But no, you're a hundred percent right, man, because this is the difference.

00:17:58.040 And this is what has shifted culturally speaking within subcultures over the last couple of

00:18:02.480 decades.

00:18:02.800 It's what separates us so, so definitively is the fact that back then they were artists.

00:18:09.260 They were expressing themselves.

00:18:11.980 Now we have activists.

00:18:13.480 We don't have artists anymore.

00:18:15.620 And everything is secondary to the ultimately, which is the, the total reformation in, in this,

00:18:23.160 this leftist authoritarian hellscape that they wish to maintain that they'll never get.

00:18:27.580 And because they can't get it, this is their, this is their adversity that they're fighting

00:18:32.040 against.

00:18:32.560 We can't destroy everything.

00:18:34.760 Woe is us.

00:18:35.580 And it's this thought guarding, even like if you talk to the wrong person, now you're platforming

00:18:40.200 them, right?

00:18:40.640 Like, or, uh, we can't, we can't let this idea be its own idea for a second.

00:18:47.260 It's got to be destroyed with, with this intensity of a thousand suns in the subculture that's supposed

00:18:53.560 to be the weirdos, right?

00:18:54.760 Well, this is the, I was saying, uh, talking about this in the car as well, like it's one

00:18:58.280 thing, um, to be gatekept from the, the subcultures, right?

00:19:02.880 To, to be rejected, you know, entrance based on having an ideology that doesn't match like

00:19:07.680 leftist Californians, weirdly global, you know, uh, alternative subcultures have to conform

00:19:14.420 to like West coast liberalism.

00:19:16.840 It's, it's, it's the fact that, you know, you're rejected.

00:19:20.800 That sucks.

00:19:21.360 Can't, can't enjoy the same spaces, right?

00:19:23.080 We can't all hang out in the same place.

00:19:25.080 It's the fact that they then go after you.

00:19:26.720 Yeah.

00:19:27.440 It's, it's reactive now.

00:19:28.860 It's gatekeeping has always been there to a degree.

00:19:31.680 As soon as the internet came in, gatekeeping sort of became a fun little game.

00:19:36.180 And they enjoyed playing and the gatekeeping we had was, you know, name three songs.

00:19:41.300 Yeah.

00:19:41.680 Yeah.

00:19:42.060 Yeah.

00:19:42.260 That was it.

00:19:43.260 Right.

00:19:43.760 Oh, you like Susan, the band.

00:19:45.100 She's named three songs, not from the juju album.

00:19:48.420 That's such a good point.

00:19:49.820 And now it's, um, can men become women?

00:19:51.980 If you don't, I'm going to just destroy your life.

00:19:54.160 And I pointed this out.

00:19:55.360 I actually figured out why they shifted this.

00:19:57.180 Why is that?

00:19:57.580 Because they wanted goth to be political.

00:19:59.900 They wanted to gatekeep based on politics.

00:20:02.060 Goth music is not political in any way.

00:20:03.800 Yeah.

00:20:04.120 They will be goth music that has a political individual that made something sort of ambiguously

00:20:10.480 like maybe stop war for a bit, maybe.

00:20:13.220 But because the music itself was not enough to keep people like, you know, me and Brian

00:20:17.000 out of it, they then had to change the stance of the gatekeeping.

00:20:20.260 Because if the music itself was enough to keep us out, we wouldn't even want to be in

00:20:23.400 it anyway.

00:20:24.340 Right.

00:20:24.580 If the music was like constantly just like, you know, transition your kids, transition your

00:20:30.520 kids, castrate them when they're young.

00:20:32.660 It's pretty, it's pretty catchy.

00:20:33.720 We should write that one down.

00:20:34.640 But yeah.

00:20:34.820 Do you know what?

00:20:35.440 I'm not even going to mention the name of the album.

00:20:39.240 That's track one, right?

00:20:40.320 That's track one right there.

00:20:41.280 So they had to shift the nature of the gatekeeping to a political one so that they could maintain

00:20:45.180 control over it.

00:20:46.440 It's the same flavor.

00:20:48.520 It just now has a more belligerent force behind it.

00:20:53.580 Brian, speaking of the gatekeeping and stuff, and we were talking a little bit earlier

00:20:58.800 about being canceled or whatever, and you said you have some kind of experience with

00:21:03.680 that one.

00:21:03.880 Oh, unfortunately.

00:21:05.180 Well, I just, I just wanted to jump in real quick with Jake, what Jake was saying, because

00:21:10.400 there's this, this goths against cancel culture group is like, it went from like zero to 16,000

00:21:19.220 in like a month in terms of membership.

00:21:22.100 And even nine to 16 recently, even fair.

00:21:24.480 It was like super fair.

00:21:25.180 And the common theme is people go just relief, like, oh my gosh, there's somebody else, because

00:21:30.060 that's the move, right?

00:21:31.080 Is isolate.

00:21:32.040 Yeah.

00:21:32.420 And then there's, I can't believe I found this.

00:21:34.400 You guys, this is amazing.

00:21:35.620 I thought I was the only one.

00:21:37.460 And which got started more or less on my behalf, just to back to going back to what Phil was

00:21:44.540 saying, just because I had some, I mean, this cost me a marriage.

00:21:53.740 Really?

00:21:53.940 That dude is gnarly.

00:21:56.040 And then I was doing a podcast and to talk to somebody people didn't like, and people

00:22:02.160 just broke out.

00:22:04.320 I had to move.

00:22:06.720 So they were going, they were going after you.

00:22:07.940 They were going physically hard, dude.

00:22:10.020 Yeah.

00:22:10.500 I, I, I, all my gigs got canceled.

00:22:15.300 What was the hot take?

00:22:16.740 Like what, what do you want to hear the podcast for this?

00:22:18.760 Yeah.

00:22:19.040 You're ready for this.

00:22:19.820 It's like, you'd think I'd started the Rwandan genocide or something, but I had,

00:22:23.580 this is in the halcyon days of 2023, you know, way back when, uh, but it's, it's almost not

00:22:32.300 a joke because the window is shifted so fast.

00:22:35.280 So, so in such a, excuse me, so much, so quickly.

00:22:38.700 I meant to say, but back then I had, um, just somebody that did a podcast.

00:22:44.640 It's great Moxie Dame.

00:22:46.320 I was a big fan and she came on and people had found out, wait for it.

00:22:50.740 She'd made some unkind.

00:22:51.840 And she'd like, liked a tweet.

00:22:54.340 Uh, yeah, yeah.

00:22:55.860 Right.

00:22:56.460 And then that was enough.

00:22:58.500 And I think, um, the band that I was really doing at the time, the gothsicles was like,

00:23:03.920 it's a comedy.

00:23:04.980 Like if I started in undergrad and then I just never stopped.

00:23:07.520 Um, and, uh, I was sort of this industrial Mr. Rogers.

00:23:11.080 So it became so juicy to be like, Oh, Brian's a bad guy now.

00:23:15.100 And then we can like jump and just destroyed, destroyed.

00:23:18.580 I lost, I lost everything.

00:23:21.360 And, uh, even to this day, like if I try to get a gig, it gets shut down by, by the internet.

00:23:26.680 So there was also the subscription that you had as well.

00:23:29.900 That was catalyst.

00:23:31.000 Oh yeah.

00:23:31.640 Yeah.

00:23:31.900 Yeah.

00:23:32.140 Yeah.

00:23:32.180 Because I had, um, a daily wire subscription.

00:23:37.160 Oh no.

00:23:38.460 Yeah.

00:23:39.020 Yeah.

00:23:39.420 You, you, you, that's exactly.

00:23:41.380 Zionists.

00:23:42.840 How'd he get in here?

00:23:44.080 Yeah.

00:23:44.340 We, that's what, that, that, that, that was on there, right?

00:23:48.140 That killed my marriage, man.

00:23:49.640 That was enough to be like, that daily wire subscription.

00:23:53.540 And this, this was after the, uh, the, the attack in Israel from the, the Gaza attacking

00:23:58.960 Israel.

00:23:59.220 It was bizarrely right around that time.

00:24:02.300 It was, that's how I, I know when it was, when it started.

00:24:04.780 It was, it was, the topic was white hot then, you know, there, that was, again, a significant

00:24:10.460 sorting event, right?

00:24:12.360 So if, if you, if you didn't side with the, the people that were anti-Israel, then you

00:24:19.020 were a Zionist and, and all of the things that come along with it.

00:24:22.060 And, you know, obviously the Zionists were the Nazis, you know, um, which then you, I

00:24:27.520 think it was also, I think it was even less than, I think it was just cause it was a right

00:24:31.700 wing.

00:24:32.680 Oh yeah.

00:24:33.500 I mean, it could have been any, you know, any, any, the Tim Pool show.

00:24:38.040 I was, I was a big fan of, uh, back in the days and it's definitely not a big deal that

00:24:41.940 I'm here right now.

00:24:42.740 Holy crap.

00:24:43.300 Um, but, uh, your voice is definitely not trembling.

00:24:46.340 Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

00:24:48.020 I'm kidding.

00:24:48.640 Well, I'm sitting next to Jake Monroe, so I'm trying to be like, cool, but, uh.

00:24:51.920 You're doing super well until just then.

00:24:54.560 Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

00:24:56.700 The more, the more Jake points at it, the more you're going to feel uncomfortable.

00:25:00.320 Right.

00:25:01.200 The, no, but, um, it was because in goth world, like those were the rules.

00:25:08.960 And, um, you know, like, uh, I lost all my friends and people are posting, like, we tried

00:25:14.260 to save you.

00:25:15.180 Like I was getting into like, like a crack habit or something.

00:25:18.820 I'm like, no, I'm just listening to dudes on the internet.

00:25:22.740 And, uh, that was it, man.

00:25:25.440 And, um.

00:25:26.480 Dudes with different opinions.

00:25:27.660 Dudes with different opinions.

00:25:28.560 And then I stepped into the strike and, uh, dropped a track called left.

00:25:33.300 Leftism is bad.

00:25:34.900 Just.

00:25:36.260 Jesus.

00:25:36.700 No, there's, there's no subtext there.

00:25:39.240 It's just.

00:25:39.500 That was the point.

00:25:40.260 Did you get that past the censors?

00:25:41.700 Well, yeah.

00:25:42.300 Just because I wanted to be like, this is, this is it.

00:25:45.220 There's no.

00:25:45.640 And then that was, that was it, dude.

00:25:48.240 Like that, um, that fell apart.

00:25:50.660 But interestingly enough, um, all the, the, the lower, like kind of crappier bands were

00:25:56.380 the ones that really hated me.

00:25:57.760 But the, uh, the, the bigger bands, they were like, like the, the guys that had the most

00:26:02.380 talent were weirdly.

00:26:03.200 I know why that happened.

00:26:04.700 I know exactly why that happened.

00:26:05.920 What was that?

00:26:06.700 Because it's the same reason why people hate on me without tagging me.

00:26:09.560 What's that?

00:26:09.900 It's a virtue signal.

00:26:10.920 Yeah.

00:26:11.260 Oh, oh, it was.

00:26:12.060 If you're, if you're small, if you're a smaller creator or a smaller band and you can get numbers

00:26:16.360 off of publicly hating someone.

00:26:18.080 Yeah.

00:26:18.700 Then they're going to do it.

00:26:19.740 Oh, dude.

00:26:20.180 It was a, it was a crab.

00:26:21.460 That's why that happened.

00:26:22.480 Yeah.

00:26:22.800 We're just dying to like hit me harder.

00:26:25.540 Just coming on the scene.

00:26:26.380 Just real quick.

00:26:27.000 Just make sure everyone knows that I hate Brian.

00:26:28.560 Right.

00:26:28.860 Yeah.

00:26:29.000 My show's next week.

00:26:29.960 I'll see you there.

00:26:30.760 Right.

00:26:31.200 Just so you guys know.

00:26:32.360 Like that kind of shit, man.

00:26:33.520 I mean, this is a Wendy's.

00:26:34.540 It's letting people know that, that you're safe, which is ironic in the, in the underground

00:26:39.180 space or in counterculture.

00:26:40.540 Right.

00:26:40.740 And the nature of the statement itself is completely ironic.

00:26:42.540 Yeah.

00:26:42.700 But it's like, uh, we hate them so much, but this is safe.

00:26:47.540 And the.

00:26:48.680 Except for Brian.

00:26:49.260 He's not safe here.

00:26:50.180 Right.

00:26:50.420 He's a Nazi.

00:26:50.860 The whole idea of safe when it comes to counterculture, I mean, safety is, you know, antithetical

00:26:57.480 to things that are supposed to be counterculture, right?

00:26:59.680 Like you're supposed to be pushing boundaries.

00:27:02.060 That's the point of counterculture stuff.

00:27:04.020 It's, it's, it's supposed to make people uncomfortable.

00:27:06.980 And, and there are people that would argue that good art makes people uncomfortable.

00:27:10.680 It makes you question things that your, your preconceived notions.

00:27:14.060 It makes you question the way that you used to look at the world or, or whatever the

00:27:17.680 topic is.

00:27:18.280 So the idea of safe art is, is, I mean, it's, it's, it's as sterilized and, and revolting

00:27:26.000 and repulsive as you can possibly imagine.

00:27:28.940 Like a tribe approved art.

00:27:30.780 Yeah.

00:27:31.340 You guys like this?

00:27:32.400 I know you would because the rules are so clear for everyone to follow, but to follow

00:27:37.480 on from something that Brian was saying there, cause this, this is very important.

00:27:40.760 And for those of you who are probably watching this wondering what, what space is there for

00:27:47.840 you know, people who are alternative, people who are conservative or even MAGA or, you know,

00:27:53.560 right wing, whatever.

00:27:54.340 What's, what, what space is there in alternative spaces for these kinds of people?

00:27:59.660 You pointed out that whenever you made the song, leftism is, what was the word?

00:28:04.400 Bad.

00:28:04.960 Yeah.

00:28:05.360 Jesus Christ, man.

00:28:07.080 Such harsh language.

00:28:08.380 Yeah.

00:28:08.620 Um, I came out and I, I did a video called, um, goth is not political, which lit everything

00:28:14.700 on fire.

00:28:15.260 People sent that to me for a month and a half.

00:28:17.520 Yeah.

00:28:17.700 So I made it, I made a, I made a, nearly an hour long video about this.

00:28:20.680 And prior to making this video, my research was on my Instagram.

00:28:24.320 I was like, if there's any Republican or conservative alternative people following, uh, drop me a message,

00:28:29.900 drop me a DM.

00:28:30.440 I want to hear what your experience is.

00:28:31.980 And, uh, I got, I got hundreds.

00:28:36.640 Yeah.

00:28:37.020 Thousands of DMs.

00:28:39.140 This, yeah, that video right there.

00:28:41.520 That's the one that, uh, that sort of really pissed a lot of people off.

00:28:45.460 And you can see two of my biggest detractors in the thumbnail.

00:28:47.360 I thought that would be extra sort of.

00:28:51.020 Did I ever tell you?

00:28:51.780 Oh, really?

00:28:52.320 Those two people don't like you.

00:28:53.700 Oh, they, they very, very much do not like you.

00:28:55.640 We headlined, uh, DragonCon, which was like a big deal.

00:28:59.080 And, uh, our booth was right next to one of them.

00:29:02.080 So I, I, it's bizarre that it's come full circle.

00:29:04.900 Cause I, you know, you know what it is when you're selling merch, you just basically talk

00:29:08.220 to the band next to you all day.

00:29:09.800 So I talked to, uh, Mr. V all day.

00:29:13.080 Oh, that's cool, man.

00:29:14.240 But yeah, it's like, um, there, there, there is space there.

00:29:18.140 And what I realized whenever there was a bunch of, uh, uh, like conservatives and, um, uh,

00:29:23.900 right wingers or even just center right, even just center libertarians, like people coming

00:29:27.800 in just being like, Oh my God.

00:29:28.880 Yeah.

00:29:29.020 Like I have to mask this shit, right?

00:29:31.800 Just so I can enjoy this.

00:29:33.240 And then you've got leftists saying that goth is political and is leftist by nature.

00:29:37.740 So I'm like, okay, you, these two things can't be true at the same time.

00:29:41.820 Okay.

00:29:42.180 Because if there's something there that right wingers can enjoy, then it can't be inherently

00:29:45.700 leftist.

00:29:46.720 It can't, you can't have these two things.

00:29:48.900 And then of course, I was talking to you about this, uh, in the car.

00:29:51.680 If you take leftism and you strip it of all of this, this goth aesthetic, what's left?

00:29:56.140 It's just the politics.

00:29:57.240 Politics themselves innately are not goth, right?

00:30:01.080 Liberalism and leftism is not goth by itself.

00:30:05.360 It is only then made goth by everything else that's added, like the music, the aesthetic,

00:30:09.900 the literature, the architecture, you know, the macabre themes, the taxidermy.

00:30:14.960 So much taxidermy.

00:30:16.220 Lots and lots of taxidermy.

00:30:17.840 Eyeliner.

00:30:18.200 And, uh, these things have been enjoyed for, for decades, right?

00:30:24.360 And before modern leftism became a thing.

00:30:27.400 And these were the same themes that these, these, uh, conservatives and right wingers

00:30:31.940 were finding value in.

00:30:33.760 Yeah.

00:30:34.140 And it's like, yeah, it's, uh, it's not liberal.

00:30:37.480 It's in fact, it's, it's the exact, it's the rejection of all of these things.

00:30:42.000 It is the, um, you know, regardless of the political affiliations of everyone involved,

00:30:48.200 it is the unifying core themes of goth, which are those things that I talked about earlier,

00:30:52.960 you know, like, um, you know, aesthetic and music and, uh, you know, the, the, the scene

00:30:57.580 itself is, and maintaining the scene.

00:30:59.800 So factually, it's incorrect that it's, it's leftist and that it's also political because

00:31:06.400 again, these were just created as an extension of the LWA, which was the left wing authoritarianism

00:31:11.920 that I, that I did a video on, uh, which is very different to any other type of authoritarianism

00:31:18.160 because of the dark triad, which is a, like a psychological triad of really, really horrible

00:31:23.960 personality traits.

00:31:25.520 And you don't need to be like a psychological scholar.

00:31:28.840 You can observe this.

00:31:30.300 I think we opened for dark triad in 2015.

00:31:32.500 Um, you know, to your, to your point, Jake, the, you mentioned, um, how the right, uh, tends

00:31:40.320 to be put off by, by the goth aesthetic, the, the, the counterculture aesthetic, the, the metal

00:31:45.240 music, the, the heavy industrial stuff.

00:31:47.660 Um, and I think you do see it now.

00:31:50.180 If you look, the Gen Z right wing, um, they're very much dudes in ties, right?

00:31:57.420 They're, they're, they're going back to that.

00:31:59.440 Um, there was a, a time where the major political movers were trying to step away from looking,

00:32:08.700 you know, prim and proper looking well kept with, with ties and stuff.

00:32:12.920 They were, they were trying to look like the every man, right?

00:32:15.420 Like maybe it might be, I think it was probably the, uh, the whole aesthetic, the Brooklyn aesthetic

00:32:22.800 where you had, you know, dudes with beards and they've got their lattes and.

00:32:27.420 And that used to be for a time in the early aughts, that was kind of counterculture, right?

00:32:32.620 Like you, you're, if you were trying to go into politics or into political spaces, you

00:32:37.120 were still kind of wearing like your normal stuff.

00:32:39.680 And now there's been a resurgence on the right, um, of people that are, you know, they're,

00:32:44.200 they're always presenting themselves in suit and ties and new punk, man.

00:32:48.040 It is, it is.

00:32:49.240 And I mean, you, you'll, there's always been that kind of dude in the scene, right?

00:32:54.020 Who wears a tie and it's, it's usually like, it's, it's not brought up, but like, you know,

00:32:58.720 you see, you see it, I think a lot in scobby or used to see it a lot in scobby, right?

00:33:02.760 Scobby hands would, would wear suits and jackets and stuff.

00:33:05.020 Oh yeah.

00:33:05.240 Yeah.

00:33:05.520 The, the sort of.

00:33:06.560 Sweating through it.

00:33:07.020 The monicism of it all.

00:33:07.920 Yeah.

00:33:08.160 You know, and, and, but nowadays the, the guys that are, are wearing ties and on the right,

00:33:14.600 they do try to portray that image.

00:33:18.020 Can, but you were saying that, that there's, there's space for those people in the goth

00:33:22.500 world.

00:33:22.760 Can you, can you elaborate on that?

00:33:24.080 A hundred percent.

00:33:24.760 So the, the mistake these people are making is that the, their perception of these alternative

00:33:30.900 subcultures, uh, do not change.

00:33:33.920 They're, they're, uh, they are absolute and their, their basis is always going to be left

00:33:40.040 versus right.

00:33:41.020 But that's not true.

00:33:42.120 So it's a counterculture and counterculture, counterculture, the very nature of the word

00:33:46.680 is counter to whatever culture happens to be the most popular at the time.

00:33:51.020 And as we all know, the reason why we get so much backlash, the reason why there's so

00:33:55.060 much animosity towards people like us saying the things that we say is because we are the

00:33:59.220 counterculture.

00:34:00.280 That is the whole point.

00:34:01.960 Like.

00:34:02.160 And they didn't realize at any point that they became the system.

00:34:05.660 They became the culture to which we counter to it.

00:34:09.400 Right.

00:34:09.540 The, the, the refrain for a long time was that there's no such thing as a goth conservative.

00:34:14.660 Like that's what I saw.

00:34:15.480 I keep saying that, yeah.

00:34:16.400 You can't be conservative.

00:34:17.320 Oh, I don't, I guess I don't exist.

00:34:19.180 I'm going to fade out like that picture and back to the future.

00:34:21.940 Like, sorry.

00:34:22.720 Like that Gifford, it's just like the guy like, he's, you know, he disappears.

00:34:27.360 All right.

00:34:27.880 I guess I didn't clear my existence with somebody in Poughkeepsie on Facebook.

00:34:33.360 Like what?

00:34:33.700 It just gives you an existential crisis where you're just like, so then why the, why am

00:34:36.920 I doing this?

00:34:37.540 Oh, right.

00:34:38.160 Yeah.

00:34:38.440 Literally everything else other than the leftist politics.

00:34:41.360 Like I said, you know, leftist politics themselves by their very nature, by their definition are

00:34:47.540 not goth.

00:34:48.180 They're not gothic.

00:34:49.380 They're not counterculture.

00:34:50.540 It is merely part of society.

00:34:53.260 It's one of, you know, the, it's, it's one of the partisan things that we have going on

00:34:57.400 in society.

00:34:59.100 Goth itself is completely removed of these things.

00:35:01.920 It is, it is, it's, it's, it's own, it's its own thing.

00:35:05.220 It is, it's divine.

00:35:06.560 It's defined by itself, not the politics within it.

00:35:09.300 Like you have the core values, which is stuff I've already talked about.

00:35:11.880 And those are the things that define it.

00:35:13.560 You take, you know, you take liberal, liberalism out of goth.

00:35:17.200 You take leftism out of goth.

00:35:18.420 Leftism is still just leftism, right?

00:35:21.620 Leftism only becomes goth when it's in it, when it's dressed like it, when it's acting

00:35:25.340 like it.

00:35:25.700 So what happens now?

00:35:27.200 Well, what happens now is that we do our absolute best to get these freaks out of here.

00:35:31.420 Well, that actually, that's a good segue to what I wanted to, because we started talking

00:35:35.100 about this in the green room and we were saying how like in goth culture and metal and punk,

00:35:38.940 like men would wear dresses, eyeliner you were talking about.

00:35:42.040 And this is back in, this is, and to your point that just for clarification, this is back

00:35:45.700 in the nineties and early aughts, right?

00:35:48.640 Like if, if, if I was at a show and there was a guy wearing a dress, it was, it was just

00:35:52.740 like, whatever you, you know, you'd see, you'd see dudes wearing, you know, black dress or

00:35:56.760 whatever.

00:35:57.000 And, and people would, might give them a second look, but nobody said anything.

00:36:01.660 No one cared.

00:36:02.900 That's a dress guy.

00:36:04.000 Yeah.

00:36:04.440 To my understanding, it was cause like that was a counterculture.

00:36:07.020 You guys were like a niche part of society.

00:36:08.600 So it was just like, it is what it is.

00:36:10.240 But like, what I wanted to pull up is three of the biggest, some of the biggest athletes

00:36:13.780 in the world right now are openly painting their nails.

00:36:17.040 We've got Jared McCain right here.

00:36:19.080 He's a starter for the Philadelphia 76ers.

00:36:22.400 Caleb Williams, a quarterback for the Chicago bears and Israel Adesanya, a multiple champion

00:36:27.820 UFC fighter.

00:36:28.880 So we've gotten to the point.

00:36:30.040 I just wanted to talk to you guys about this is that the biggest athletes in the world,

00:36:33.680 which is like everyone loves sports, right?

00:36:35.440 This is pop culture.

00:36:37.140 This is like the mainstream.

00:36:39.440 Yeah.

00:36:39.660 And now we're, they're totally embracing what you guys were talking about in the nineties

00:36:43.980 and the early aughts.

00:36:44.840 I mean, if you look at like the Met Gala, um, they invite all the NBA players and they're

00:36:50.320 wearing these skirts and they're black and the NBA players are like, Oh, I can't wear

00:36:53.120 like a bright color.

00:36:54.240 Right.

00:36:54.520 I need to be cool still.

00:36:55.380 So they wear the skirt, but it's like black.

00:36:57.240 And it does remind me of like goth.

00:36:59.520 Well, you know what I mean?

00:37:00.440 Yeah.

00:37:00.720 And so I wanted, just wanted to get your thoughts on all that and how it's like, it totally has been

00:37:04.240 stolen, right?

00:37:05.600 Well, I mean, historically speaking now, men in dresses, uh, in goth clubs, that that's

00:37:11.900 like 1968.

00:37:13.100 Yeah.

00:37:13.920 That's, that's really far back.

00:37:15.460 Like Batcave, like the Batcave.

00:37:17.180 Yeah.

00:37:17.600 Like, um, which I think would close, what did that close?

00:37:19.660 Like 1973 or something?

00:37:20.840 I can't remember when it closed, but it was, um, it was, again, this is what I was saying

00:37:25.500 earlier.

00:37:25.980 This, that was expression.

00:37:27.380 That was expression.

00:37:28.840 Now they're activists.

00:37:30.120 Yeah.

00:37:30.300 Right.

00:37:30.820 Now, now it's no longer just a, I just, just felt like it.

00:37:34.320 What do you think?

00:37:34.920 And everyone's like, yeah, that's cool.

00:37:36.420 This song's great.

00:37:37.340 It's no longer that.

00:37:38.660 Now it's this, uh, I'm making a statement.

00:37:40.980 Do you agree with it?

00:37:41.960 Yeah.

00:37:42.320 And it's like, do I, do I agree with you wearing a dress?

00:37:45.080 Uh, sure.

00:37:45.980 It's like, no, no, no, that's not enough.

00:37:47.520 Do you validate my existence?

00:37:48.840 Yeah.

00:37:49.420 Validate me.

00:37:50.060 I can't continue on unless I am validated by the herd.

00:37:53.540 Right.

00:37:53.820 It's, this is the kind of conformity that I was talking about with, you know, left is.

00:37:58.380 On the screen, like Dennis Rodman doing this stuff in the 90s.

00:38:01.160 I mean, athletes have always been very flamboyant though.

00:38:03.320 Now I'm just going yawn.

00:38:04.660 Like, all right.

00:38:05.520 Yeah.

00:38:06.360 They used to be that sprinter that had like the pineapple head.

00:38:09.820 I can't remember his name.

00:38:10.520 He was a runner from the 90s, late 90s.

00:38:12.860 They used to call him pineapple head.

00:38:14.680 He used to have.

00:38:15.420 Oh, I think his name was pineapple head.

00:38:16.600 Yeah.

00:38:16.760 I think that was his name.

00:38:17.800 Mr. Head.

00:38:19.640 Mr. P. Head.

00:38:20.220 His parents hated him.

00:38:21.900 They did.

00:38:22.220 But I think that, you know, this is something, you know, worth kind of drilling down on, like

00:38:28.080 to your point, Jake, the idea that you could wear whatever you wanted.

00:38:32.860 Yeah.

00:38:33.280 And that was really what the counterculture, subculture kind of thing was.

00:38:37.920 Yeah.

00:38:38.220 It wasn't a statement about I fit in.

00:38:41.740 Yeah.

00:38:41.960 It was I'm going to do what I want in spite of the fact that the normative culture would

00:38:48.180 look down on this or the normative culture rejects this.

00:38:50.720 Right.

00:38:51.220 So if that's the case, if it if it was initially just a rejection, where does that leave people

00:38:58.120 that are looking to express themselves and reject the normal culture when it's like everything

00:39:04.620 is now just window dressing?

00:39:06.940 Yeah.

00:39:07.300 Well, I mean, self-expression is, you know, everyone can do that.

00:39:12.240 It is it doesn't rely on any political affiliation.

00:39:18.100 Right.

00:39:18.220 So people are just like, well, you can't be conservative and goth because a conservative

00:39:22.080 would never wear a skirt.

00:39:23.640 But then not every goth was wearing a skirt.

00:39:26.220 Right.

00:39:26.520 You had masculine goths, you know, like myself, for example.

00:39:29.400 And then you've got the ones that, you know, wanted to wear the skirts.

00:39:32.180 You could also go as a conservative to a goth club, listen to the music that was about love

00:39:36.840 and romance and death and loss because that's almost exclusively what they were about.

00:39:40.140 And in and in some cases, like the cure, getting lost in the forest as a young boy.

00:39:45.060 And that's it.

00:39:46.040 It's literally all it's about.

00:39:47.260 And then you could you could you could wear it, you know, a skirt and listen to these

00:39:52.160 these songs that are decidedly apolitical and then go home and say, you know, maybe abortion

00:39:58.380 is not great.

00:39:59.800 But to the point, like as much as it was likely that you would see a guy in a skirt, you would

00:40:05.840 also almost invariably see a dude that was in a black suit with a black shirt and a black

00:40:11.300 tie.

00:40:12.320 And that was that that imagery has been part of goth and the subculture for as long as

00:40:17.620 I've been aware of it.

00:40:19.500 You know, and I know I'm an old guy.

00:40:21.440 You know, it's like the the idea.

00:40:23.540 I can't count how many goth bands I've seen that look like they're dressed up to go to

00:40:27.540 a funeral.

00:40:28.100 Yeah.

00:40:28.420 And that's I mean, that that falls right in line with the idea of loss and, you know,

00:40:34.480 the the the themes that that goth tends to, you know, tends to to explore.

00:40:41.300 Um, so the idea that you can't be conservative or that you can't dress in a conservative

00:40:46.700 way and go to a golf club, I think that that's just can be dismissed out of hand.

00:40:50.840 Right.

00:40:51.160 It's just ridiculous to think that it's it's this misconception that conservatism is absolute.

00:40:57.540 It is every single ideal at in their extremes at all times.

00:41:02.160 But of course, we know there's nuance to everything.

00:41:04.480 It is bipartisan.

00:41:05.540 But within, you know, the left and the right and the center, there are delineations.

00:41:09.380 It's an entire graph.

00:41:10.340 Right.

00:41:10.440 Right.

00:41:10.880 Well, I mean, like Nazis, like ourselves, Nazis, like ourselves.

00:41:14.340 Well, yeah, not everyone's us, you know, I mean, it took me even a minute to just sort

00:41:19.360 of adopt the term right wing or conservative because I didn't really they make it a no

00:41:23.660 no word.

00:41:24.300 Yeah, they make you so afraid.

00:41:26.000 It's the same way they make you afraid of being called a racist or a transphobe.

00:41:28.840 This is how they control you.

00:41:30.120 Well, yeah, I was just there are things that I believe and things that I don't believe.

00:41:35.120 Yeah.

00:41:35.220 I guess that puts me in one camp or the other.

00:41:37.900 But then it does, because whenever you present yourself as like, oh, I don't believe in every

00:41:42.220 conservative value, but maybe this stuff, maybe we should.

00:41:44.780 And they're like, so you're a Nazi then?

00:41:46.100 Yeah.

00:41:46.420 And then you're like, so you're not my friends at all.

00:41:49.860 The only friends I got left are over these very sweet, kind conservative people who have

00:41:54.060 now radicalized me.

00:41:55.720 So good job.

00:41:57.140 I'm no longer on the fence.

00:41:58.520 You pushed me into his garden.

00:41:59.600 Someone in the chat, Structural Ruin in the chat said Dracula was literally the aristocracy.

00:42:05.020 Ha ha ha!

00:42:06.120 Structure.

00:42:06.660 Oh, I'll do you one better than that.

00:42:09.300 Dracula was based on Vlad the Impaler.

00:42:11.380 And do you know what he did to the invading Muslims?

00:42:13.320 Oh, yeah.

00:42:14.180 Oh, yeah.

00:42:14.940 He made a fence.

00:42:15.580 That boy was not a liberal, okay?

00:42:17.440 Yeah.

00:42:17.560 And so much, so much of goth itself, the music and the aesthetic was based off of gothic

00:42:25.020 novels and gothic historical figures like Vlad the Impaler.

00:42:29.780 Yeah.

00:42:29.940 Lady Bathory, Dracula, et cetera, blood-sucking elites, which is absolutely true.

00:42:35.880 Not a socialist among them.

00:42:37.080 Would you consider the sphere that you guys are in a mass, like not now, but before, like

00:42:45.260 I guess, Wokeness took over, would you consider it more of a masculine or feminine kind of

00:42:48.840 like energy or culture?

00:42:50.900 In goth?

00:42:51.980 In goth.

00:42:52.780 Metal.

00:42:53.120 In metal and punk.

00:42:54.120 Because I know you guys are all, like you said, it's all a little bit different.

00:42:56.780 Well, metal's, I mean, you'll know this, because I'm a metal guy as well, but it's for dudes.

00:43:03.100 Metal is about as homoerotic as you can get.

00:43:05.680 Yeah.

00:43:05.860 It's generally, at least, you know, historically, it's been four or five guys on stage performing

00:43:12.600 for 95% dudes.

00:43:14.340 Yeah.

00:43:14.740 You know, it's really a way for young, or historically has been a way for young men to get their aggression

00:43:22.400 out.

00:43:22.860 Yeah.

00:43:23.220 A healthy way for young men to express the aggression that they feel.

00:43:28.960 That's a big part of why, like, the mosh pit, right?

00:43:32.160 The pit, people would go, and whether you call it slam dancing or whatever, people would

00:43:36.980 go in there.

00:43:37.700 And, I mean, I have, I do not have a very straight set of teeth because of how many times I've

00:43:44.400 been knocked in the face.

00:43:45.700 You know, I'm not a big, everyone knows I'm not a big guy.

00:43:47.980 But, you know, when I was young, I would be...

00:43:49.620 Occupational hazard, I think.

00:43:50.360 Yeah, I would be going out there into the pit and dancing along and getting down front

00:43:55.640 singing.

00:43:56.320 I've done my fair share of, you know, stage diving.

00:44:00.100 And that kind of, at least in the mental community, that kind of expression was because it was a

00:44:06.600 healthy way to get aggression out.

00:44:08.820 And I'm actually interested in hearing, you know, what you guys kind of feel.

00:44:12.640 So what you were saying about the subcultures themselves are divided on how gender is expressed.

00:44:20.520 Like Phil was saying there, like metal very much is like, you know, combat pants and, you

00:44:26.040 know, leather jacket and a I'm going to kick your ass later kind of look on your face.

00:44:30.160 But then you did have things like emo and scene and also goth as well, which were androgynous.

00:44:35.000 Not feminine.

00:44:36.540 Yeah.

00:44:37.140 Because androgynous, right?

00:44:38.180 So you had some women that looked like gigantic dudes.

00:44:42.760 And then you had some men that were frail, timid, tiny little things.

00:44:45.760 And people were sort of, you know, dressing all over the place.

00:44:48.080 So it was androgynous.

00:44:50.220 And there definitely is a sense of, you know, we're sort of playing around without the activism

00:44:57.420 being involved.

00:44:58.780 But as you were saying earlier about a lot of the sort of the new punks of this era sort

00:45:03.280 of wearing shirts and ties.

00:45:04.440 And what I was saying about that these countercultures are forever shifting to reflect the current

00:45:09.760 culture.

00:45:10.820 It makes perfect sense in a time where men are not only being disenfranchised, but feminized,

00:45:17.040 that there is a big research.

00:45:18.920 There's like a counterculture of men being more masculine as a form of counterculture.

00:45:23.640 I think that's where the activism comes from.

00:45:25.780 And I think like the androgynous cultures might have been more susceptible to like this,

00:45:31.020 like I think a lot of the feminism way we like rule society today is where cancel culture

00:45:36.860 comes from, is where the activism comes from.

00:45:38.700 And I almost think like that's why metal, I think it's largely been unaffected by the

00:45:43.820 woke takeover.

00:45:44.440 But there's been their elements, but I still consider it masculine as hell.

00:45:48.320 I think Franz had a bit of a, from a teller.

00:45:51.220 I think he had a bit of a...

00:45:51.720 Franz is great.

00:45:52.460 Shout out to Franz.

00:45:53.300 Yeah.

00:45:53.640 Franz is great.

00:45:54.600 Shout out to that guy.

00:45:55.660 But he definitely had his run in with that.

00:45:57.020 I mean, the metal scene definitely does have its issue with the woke left.

00:46:01.060 It really does.

00:46:01.640 I mean, I've been, I've personally had a lot of hate thrown at me and there's a lot

00:46:07.200 of people in the, in the metal scene that don't like me specifically because of my stance.

00:46:11.340 I, I was the guy that kind of took a stance against like the woke culture, like way, way

00:46:17.120 back in the day.

00:46:17.820 There's a, if you guys remember the sounds of the underground tour, that the, the, the,

00:46:22.360 the first sounds of the underground tour, all that remains on, this is like 2005.

00:46:25.700 And I said a, a no, no word in the DVD that's, that's still around.

00:46:29.600 You can go get it.

00:46:30.880 And, uh, first thing I'm doing after this.

00:46:33.180 I said, I said, uh, uh, what did it, um, they said that they were like, oh, you're not,

00:46:37.700 you say this word from, from stage and that's not very PC.

00:46:40.500 And I said that, I said, PC is for, you can imagine what I said after that.

00:46:44.760 Um, I know the exact word.

00:46:46.940 And it's still out there.

00:46:48.420 And, and, but that was, that was something that I'd always, always done.

00:46:52.900 Like I was in the metal community because I didn't fit in with other, in other places.

00:46:58.700 And, and so the idea of PC in the metal community was always something that I was very against.

00:47:03.580 And, and I was, I was making these arguments poorly because I, I, you know, I'm a dude in

00:47:09.100 a metal band.

00:47:09.520 I didn't have, I didn't have any kind of philosophical background.

00:47:12.640 I hadn't read any philosophy.

00:47:13.720 I didn't know where the ideas came from.

00:47:14.940 I didn't know why they spread the way they did.

00:47:17.780 All I knew was something, you know, something didn't smell right.

00:47:21.060 And that's, that's literally why I named the, the fall of ideals, the record that kind

00:47:24.900 of put all the remains of the map.

00:47:25.940 I named the fall of ideals.

00:47:27.420 I named it that because I could smell it in 2005.

00:47:31.180 I was like, there's something changing in, in the way that people kind of, kind of, uh,

00:47:36.520 you know, perceive the stuff that made America a cool country, right?

00:47:39.880 Like the, the, the idea that you can, can have like the freedom of speech, the, the idea

00:47:43.840 that you can, can share, uh, controversial ideas, stuff that, that is inherent in countercultures,

00:47:50.140 first of all, but also something that, that made, you know, made America what it was.

00:47:54.620 And so that's, and I was like, you know, the, the ideals that we have like kind of seem

00:47:58.440 like they're, they're becoming less important to people.

00:48:01.320 And, and so I was, I was on that tip before it became dangerous.

00:48:07.080 And then when it became dangerous, people were, you know, the knives were out automatically

00:48:11.460 right away from me, you know?

00:48:12.460 So, I mean, it's a cancel culture.

00:48:15.880 Um, the reason why it is so dangerous and volatile is because of the types of people

00:48:20.320 that wield it.

00:48:21.700 Now, typically in society, you know, leaders are usually naturally strong, uh, confident,

00:48:27.660 you know, types of people who usually, uh, uh, win respect.

00:48:32.220 You know, they, they, they achieve it through, you know, a hard labor or just being hardworking

00:48:37.320 or being a natural leader or being taller or stronger or better looking.

00:48:39.900 However, the power that the left wield is not power that they, that they won or achieved.

00:48:47.260 It was power that they managed to, that they were given through, uh, weaponizing phrases

00:48:53.940 like, uh, you know, like racist and stuff like that.

00:48:56.780 But by, by, by not only being labeled a racist, it's just like, uh, sure.

00:49:00.680 Now it's if, if you're labeled as a racist, now it justifies the amount of hate that's about

00:49:04.740 to come into your DMs, right?

00:49:06.520 So they, they gained power because it was given to them because they became this, this,

00:49:11.840 this online, um, this, this social media force.

00:49:15.660 And because these are the types of people who definitely should not have this kind of

00:49:19.120 power, it's why cancel culture is just so unbelievably volatile.

00:49:23.700 It seems like the right earns respect.

00:49:25.960 The left forces respect.

00:49:27.840 Yeah.

00:49:28.040 They, they pity it out of you, right?

00:49:30.080 They begged for it.

00:49:31.220 Like, oh, we're not just bag.

00:49:33.100 You've got all that power over there and we're here.

00:49:35.160 But the reason they call you racist is, is, is not because they actually think you're

00:49:39.920 doing anything wrong.

00:49:41.180 It's to get you in line.

00:49:42.680 And that's what I mean by they're forcing respect.

00:49:44.840 They will alienate you or you'll get in line and respect their worldview.

00:49:49.120 Yeah.

00:49:49.400 You know?

00:49:49.740 And I think that's what it says.

00:49:50.660 That's why in the world, the words lost its power.

00:49:52.900 They throw Nazi around so much nowadays.

00:49:56.060 You know, if you like eating beef and you're a farmer, that makes you a Nazi.

00:50:00.560 Sydney Sweeney is a Nazi now.

00:50:01.980 Yeah.

00:50:02.320 Right?

00:50:02.580 Because she's a beautiful woman who did a jeans campaign for what, or, I don't remember.

00:50:06.920 You could have stopped with beautiful woman.

00:50:08.560 Yeah.

00:50:08.980 Yeah.

00:50:09.080 Because you get it.

00:50:09.740 The left hates beauty.

00:50:11.120 Yeah.

00:50:11.380 Well, yeah, exactly.

00:50:12.420 Again, this is, this is like what I'm talking about.

00:50:14.440 It's like, they're, they're not the kinds of people who win power.

00:50:18.320 Right.

00:50:18.800 They're not beautiful.

00:50:19.740 They're not strong leaders.

00:50:20.920 They're not confident.

00:50:21.800 And yet they wield all of this online power.

00:50:23.940 Of course, they're going to be, you know, they're not going to be respectful with it.

00:50:29.820 They're not going to be, they're not going to be responsible with this kind of power.

00:50:34.440 You know, like we've already seen like the, the political violence, which is happening because

00:50:38.280 they can't even, they don't even know how to lose the power with, with any dignity because

00:50:42.520 they are losing the power and, and the response has been, has been tragic.

00:50:47.380 It has been violent.

00:50:49.360 It's open violence.

00:50:50.560 They're so confident in their position as the correct ones that they're, they're now openly

00:50:56.400 advocating, gloating about violence they're going to commit and violence they have committed.

00:51:01.900 Oh yeah.

00:51:02.420 I mean, I got, there was a festival in New Jersey and I'd, this giant one for, for industrial

00:51:09.000 music.

00:51:09.340 Like, and I joined one of my favorite bands from, from high school, uh, paint department

00:51:13.420 and, uh, they found out I joined and the internet went so crazy.

00:51:18.800 We got kicked off.

00:51:19.840 And where I'm going with this, I got upgraded to racist out of nowhere.

00:51:24.520 Oh yeah.

00:51:24.700 You got the free upgrade, man.

00:51:25.760 I got the, I got the free upgrade.

00:51:27.340 I was like.

00:51:27.760 Free upgrade without even saying the N word.

00:51:30.300 Like, like the trans one is silly, but at least I could wrap my mind around it.

00:51:34.940 But like the race, I was like, where are you even getting that?

00:51:37.100 It just sort of gets like thrown in like, ah, close enough.

00:51:40.580 You're racist.

00:51:41.500 Yeah.

00:51:41.840 Like what?

00:51:42.780 I mean, it still happens today.

00:51:43.920 We, we had, we do this show live in front of a studio, uh, like in front of an audience.

00:51:47.940 Oh, nice.

00:51:48.140 Um, and we, it's like a debate show when we do that.

00:51:51.220 And the, one of the first times we tried to do it, we almost, the show almost got canceled

00:51:55.200 because keep in mind, the club that we do it in is a comedy club in the gay district of DC.

00:52:00.220 Okay.

00:52:00.660 There's pride flags on the club that we do it from.

00:52:02.680 Right.

00:52:03.120 We're happy.

00:52:03.620 We're just happy to do a debate in front of people.

00:52:05.540 Yeah.

00:52:05.840 Right.

00:52:06.300 And then these activists tried to cancel us.

00:52:08.300 Right.

00:52:08.660 So he's calling us every name in the book.

00:52:10.540 At a debate?

00:52:11.100 Of course.

00:52:11.780 Yeah.

00:52:12.020 And they, they're like, you know, they didn't want the club.

00:52:14.740 They didn't want DC to platform us.

00:52:16.740 Yeah.

00:52:17.060 Right.

00:52:17.240 So it's still going on today, you know?

00:52:19.600 People make the effort.

00:52:20.440 Absolutely.

00:52:20.860 Yeah.

00:52:21.180 It's, it's less effective, I think.

00:52:22.820 Yeah.

00:52:23.140 Well, there's definitely like, um, um, like a, like a, like a, still a respectful, uh,

00:52:28.400 form of the left still out there.

00:52:30.040 But even they, you know, once they, they find that out, you're rejected entirely.

00:52:33.420 Yeah.

00:52:33.640 I, I mean, um, prior to the Charlie Kirk shooting, I used to know some trans people who were, um,

00:52:40.340 that were rejected from the trans movement because they didn't agree with all of the radical

00:52:44.500 trans ideology that they, in fact.

00:52:46.740 Not even just rejected from it.

00:52:47.920 They, they had their trans card revoked by the, by the, yeah.

00:52:52.480 Unbelievable.

00:52:53.080 So they had to go back to.

00:52:54.340 I had one, I had one of my DMs.

00:52:55.940 It was all pre Charlie Kirk, the great reshuffling of Charlie Kirk's death.

00:53:00.700 Um, may he rest in peace.

00:53:02.240 But there was a, um, there was a trans person that, that had like a contention with the trans

00:53:06.980 movement.

00:53:07.280 And I would talk to them frequently and sort of talk about, you know, how they're a sort

00:53:10.840 of rebel in, in their, in their place.

00:53:13.340 And, uh, and unfortunately after like the, the reshuffling happened and I was like, I can't

00:53:18.560 believe just cause he's talking.

00:53:21.400 Charlie's gone.

00:53:22.400 Yeah.

00:53:22.560 And they were like, no, fuck you.

00:53:24.820 He had to die.

00:53:25.780 He doesn't think that I should exist.

00:53:27.780 And I was like, I don't think any of that's true.

00:53:31.740 And of course, like everything was contextualized in the wake of his death online.

00:53:36.820 They tried to, this was, this was the one time that the left had to go mainstream with

00:53:42.280 the shit that they were talking about behind closed doors.

00:53:44.780 Yeah.

00:53:45.020 This is when the mask came off.

00:53:46.260 Oh yeah.

00:53:47.060 And, uh, they, they came out and they were like, well, well, he said this stuff and they

00:53:52.720 had to come into the room and tell everyone why they were gloating.

00:53:55.000 And everyone in the room was looking at them like, no, that's not what he said.

00:53:58.900 After that, that Serpa news that the turning point was the name of the song we put out.

00:54:03.440 Um, and it, the FBI should go through the comments on it.

00:54:08.040 Uh, it was just the most insane, like, and I know you, and you're saying this crazy, crazy,

00:54:15.000 like he desert, like all the stuff you're saying, but like cartoonishly villainous.

00:54:18.600 This was, this was their trophy.

00:54:19.940 This was their victory lap for the, all their efforts of hate.

00:54:22.320 They don't know Charlie.

00:54:23.500 They, they don't care about what he, they don't know what he was saying at all.

00:54:26.540 No, no.

00:54:27.000 That much was evident immediately when they came out and tried to justify it.

00:54:30.300 I saw this quote once and I have no context what it's in, but I'm going to

00:54:33.300 cite it at you as something bad because they heard you said it.

00:54:35.580 Yeah, exactly.

00:54:36.300 But it's kind of like this constant unending running straw man fallacy that they use all

00:54:41.140 the time.

00:54:41.940 It's, it is a deliberate misinterpretation of the point so that they can justify the,

00:54:46.680 the hatred and the violence that follows because they hate you so much.

00:54:51.280 And in order for them to maintain this narrative that they are the good guys, they have to debase

00:54:56.080 you even further.

00:54:57.400 It's the boy who cried victim.

00:54:58.480 Yeah, it's just, it's just like, we're, we're so angry and hateful and we do such

00:55:03.680 disgusting, awful things.

00:55:04.840 How can we justify this?

00:55:05.800 How can we still be on the right side of history?

00:55:08.320 Oh, that's right.

00:55:09.220 We'll make, we'll just call them Nazis.

00:55:11.400 Yeah.

00:55:11.620 Because World War II proved that you can kill them and it's fine.

00:55:14.820 So we're just going to call them Nazis and we're going to call them fascists.

00:55:18.020 And so when we, when we act the way that we're going to be acting, we can still feel good

00:55:22.620 and go to bed and, and fall asleep and, and dream about communism.

00:55:28.100 Um, one of the things that you mentioned earlier, Jake, that we were talking about,

00:55:32.040 like the left hates beauty, right?

00:55:34.180 They do.

00:55:34.600 Yes.

00:55:34.760 And one of the things that I've noticed about goth is there's always an S the aesthetic

00:55:42.620 quality of it.

00:55:43.640 And it was, there was always imagery that was, even though it was melancholy, it was

00:55:50.500 so frequently beautiful women that were oftentimes they were corpses, but, but that, you know,

00:55:56.700 because, but the reason that that worked, right.

00:55:59.520 One of the, one of my favorite bands when I was, when I was, uh, young into like doom

00:56:03.720 metal, like slow, sludgy death metal, um, this band called My Dying Bride.

00:56:07.760 And I love the, the name because that was the saddest thing I could think of, right?

00:56:12.280 Like you, you're, you're losing your, the person that you love, blah, blah, blah.

00:56:15.780 And the imagery that comes along with that, um, I, for people that aren't familiar, all

00:56:20.040 that remains, like the lyrics and stuff are very frequently talking about like emo stuff.

00:56:24.400 We get called an emo metal band because, because I'm, I'm, I'm always talking about, or I used

00:56:29.060 to be always talking about like breaking up with girls.

00:56:30.780 Our biggest songs are, are always about girls.

00:56:33.220 Um, but that kind of, that kind of thing was always something that was, that was, uh, you

00:56:38.980 know, that I've found compelling.

00:56:40.500 Right.

00:56:40.900 And I think that that's something that, that goth is, has really always done well.

00:56:45.580 So how is it that the left who totally rejects beauty can feel like they even can embrace

00:56:53.100 that imagery, nevermind own it and, and, and gatekeep it?

00:56:56.780 Because they idealize it.

00:56:58.660 It is something that they aspire to, but have absolutely no interest in trying to achieve

00:57:03.740 whatsoever.

00:57:04.620 I mean, for example, if you look at all of the, the, the, the biggest alternative, uh, people

00:57:09.400 in the sphere who don't ever say a fucking word, by the way, they never say a word.

00:57:13.160 They just post really pretty pictures and they're the ones who get the most likes, right?

00:57:17.940 They are, they are idealized within their own camps.

00:57:20.100 And this is why they keep their mouth shut.

00:57:21.820 Ha ha.

00:57:22.280 Throw over the key and never say anything.

00:57:23.620 Smart.

00:57:24.180 Yeah.

00:57:24.500 Very, very smart.

00:57:25.580 It's very business minded.

00:57:26.380 And this is actually what most, a lot of people do is they, they will, uh, they will mask,

00:57:31.120 right?

00:57:31.300 They will, they will try to appeal.

00:57:33.580 And there's a, there's, there's some goth alternative people that do this.

00:57:36.580 I'm not going to name any names or anything like that, but they, they sort of play the

00:57:40.140 field.

00:57:40.640 They sort of, uh, they, they don't believe this crap, but they will feign to.

00:57:46.580 Sure.

00:57:46.900 So that they can maintain, you know, the, the accolades, the respect and, you know, the, the

00:57:51.260 brand deals.

00:57:51.920 Very finger in the air.

00:57:53.420 Copious amounts of brand deals.

00:57:55.020 I hope I never, ever see anyone do a kill star hole ever again.

00:58:01.820 I'm, I'm shaming anyone right here, right here.

00:58:05.060 I am saying if I ever, yeah, you will be shamed if you do another kill star hole.

00:58:09.840 It is fast fashion.

00:58:12.020 It is dreadful as the antithesis of anything that is alternative and, uh, a counterculture.

00:58:17.060 What is that for those that don't know what you're talking about?

00:58:19.260 Is there something I can pull up?

00:58:20.300 It's like, um, imagine, um, hot topic online, right?

00:58:24.420 Kill star is kind of global.

00:58:25.820 I think it's based in Scotland and, uh, they do cheap clothing for very expensive prices.

00:58:31.580 Oh, okay.

00:58:32.340 And, uh, it's kind of like the one-stop shop for the mall goth.

00:58:36.140 They all go here and they all end up on tick, on tick tock, all wearing the same stuff.

00:58:41.920 Yeah.

00:58:42.360 They'll go and the onk belts, Brian, the onk belts, Brian.

00:58:46.160 Yeah.

00:58:46.600 Oh my goodness.

00:58:47.400 I see what, so Kellen, Kellen's going through this now.

00:58:50.620 It's Wednesday Adams.

00:58:51.920 That's what it reminds me of.

00:58:52.980 You've seen this a thousand times on tick tock.

00:58:55.560 And the whole point was to not look like this.

00:58:57.660 Is this a woman's brand?

00:58:59.000 This is, there's men, there's men on there as well.

00:59:00.940 I, I will find it funny to remark that when there was the body positivity movement, you

00:59:04.580 had all sorts of gigantic women on here and the men were still tiny, skinny, because who

00:59:10.780 cares, right?

00:59:11.240 Who cares about men, right?

00:59:12.300 Yeah.

00:59:12.780 Who gives a shit?

00:59:13.540 It's mainly women on here.

00:59:14.720 So they're going to want to look at the pretty boys.

00:59:16.440 I mean, I'm looking at this and this looks like stage clothes central.

00:59:19.480 Yeah.

00:59:19.680 In fact, these, some of these designs are actually, some of these designs are actually copied

00:59:23.200 from a brand called Stakehold, actually.

00:59:26.460 Yeah.

00:59:26.960 This is, uh, I'm actually going to go.

00:59:30.180 That was an early Gossicles track.

00:59:31.700 I can tell you shop at Hot Topic.

00:59:33.440 It's one of my biggest ones.

00:59:34.460 I thrift now, man.

00:59:35.520 I like online, online thrifting.

00:59:37.260 Like back in the day, it used to be like, go to thrift stores.

00:59:39.980 4X, right there.

00:59:41.920 4XL.

00:59:42.440 Only 4XL.

00:59:43.140 I guess, I guess the 6L is sold out then.

00:59:49.040 I can kind of relate now because I've never been in the, like these subcultures that you're

00:59:52.780 talking about, but Corpse Bride was a big Halloween Christmas movie when I was growing

00:59:58.740 up and it's totally been adopted by the wokest person you know, loves Tim Burton.

01:00:04.120 Tim Burton loves Tim Burton.

01:00:05.580 And that's like, they've, you know, you go into a Hot Topic today and it's all Tim, Tim

01:00:10.420 Burton clothing.

01:00:11.360 Yeah.

01:00:11.820 I mean, I, I haven't really been, uh, privy to any of Tim Burton's new stuff.

01:00:15.920 Um, but I have no idea.

01:00:17.600 No, like Beetlejuice 2.

01:00:18.880 I'm, I'm kind of cool with the one from the 80s.

01:00:21.240 All That Remains has a tour next year.

01:00:22.680 I'm going to have to bookmark this website.

01:00:24.360 There you go.

01:00:24.980 Oh, there you go, man.

01:00:26.260 Well, they do fucking holes like that, man.

01:00:29.120 Jesus.

01:00:29.440 Um, free stuff, but not a dime, not a dime will leave their, their finances and end up

01:00:34.580 in your, your bank account, not a dime.

01:00:36.300 And this is another thing I want to talk about as well, uh, with being an alternative content

01:00:39.820 creator in, in sort of mainstream content creation there, there's like, you know, the,

01:00:45.220 the brand culture, you know, uh, uh, we, you work with brands, you get paid at the end

01:00:49.400 of the month.

01:00:49.680 You have like a year long contract sometimes, uh, which I did with, uh, with things like

01:00:53.400 Shudder and, um, a lot of, uh, my peers, they were also sort of making money through brands

01:00:59.260 like they'd have, you know, uh, their AdSense and then they'd have supplemental income through

01:01:02.600 brands.

01:01:04.100 Um, if you were an alternative creator, you did not have this privilege.

01:01:08.700 So mainstream brands would not work with you.

01:01:10.780 I've seen the emails.

01:01:11.580 They would not, they would reject it entirely.

01:01:13.940 Uh, they would be canceled now for some of the things I've seen them say.

01:01:16.680 And then the only things we had, Brian, were Killstar, Punk Rave, New Rock, all these

01:01:21.320 other, you had all them, right?

01:01:22.920 And they, they would send you free stuff, right?

01:01:25.640 Because this stuff is just made in a sweatshop somewhere and it ends up on your doorstep.

01:01:28.520 It doesn't matter.

01:01:29.160 It's, it's pennies to them, but they would never, ever pay you.

01:01:33.160 They would never support the scene.

01:01:35.120 Yeah.

01:01:35.560 They would, and that, that phrase that support the scene, that was like the mantra when

01:01:40.120 I was growing up.

01:01:40.880 Yeah.

01:01:40.940 Support the scene.

01:01:41.920 And part of, part of the reason why, not to, not to detour, but, um, we'll get back to

01:01:45.800 your point, but part of the reason why support the scene was, uh, why support the scene

01:01:50.520 was such a big deal and why I am so familiar with industrial and with goth, even though

01:01:54.260 it's not really what we're like inside my wheelhouse as a metal dude, like it was because

01:02:00.020 every Sunday night it didn't matter who was playing.

01:02:03.220 I was going to the local show because I was supporting the other artists that were local

01:02:08.100 because these are kids that I went to school with.

01:02:10.000 These are kids that I knew from hanging out at the mall or, or these are kids that I knew

01:02:13.820 that were doing the exact same thing.

01:02:15.860 I was, they just had a different flavor, right?

01:02:17.560 They, they, they liked industrial or goth or emo or what have you.

01:02:21.040 And so everybody would go, if you were in a band, you knew that the same 50 P if there

01:02:28.220 was only going to be 50 people at the show, cause it was a local show and nobody, you know,

01:02:32.060 they were just small bands or whatever, the same 50 people you could guarantee we're going

01:02:36.760 to be at every single show, whether it was a hardcore band, whether it was golf bands,

01:02:40.480 industrial, whatever it was, because everybody was coming out to support the scene.

01:02:45.080 And I imagine, and I can't speak, I haven't been to local shows in ages, but, but I imagine

01:02:50.320 that's not the case anymore.

01:02:52.340 Because if you're, if you're in, if you have the wrong opinion, word will get around and

01:02:57.380 no, it no longer is support the scene.

01:02:59.480 It's support the people that think like I do support the message.

01:03:02.720 Yeah.

01:03:03.140 And so the, the, the idea that, that it is an inclusive environment is just laughable.

01:03:11.560 Yeah.

01:03:12.060 I mean, alternative subcultures don't really have the equity to squander whenever it comes

01:03:16.660 to turning people away.

01:03:18.000 You kind of need as many people in that shit to keep it going.

01:03:20.960 Cause you know, by, by definition they are, they are alternative.

01:03:24.380 It is, it's underground.

01:03:25.520 It's what, at least it's meant to be.

01:03:27.200 And you, you kind of want as many soldiers, so to speak in that as, as humanly possible.

01:03:31.760 So the fact that even the fact that I've just realized now, even the fact that they feel

01:03:37.160 like they have the privilege to turn people away means that they, they have become such

01:03:41.960 a, a gluttonous pig of a movement.

01:03:45.220 They can afford to pick and choose who's even a part of it anymore.

01:03:48.760 But you know, it's funny you should, you should mention that because back in the day there

01:03:51.940 was like back in the seventies with, um, uh, uh, sex pistols, whenever they were first on

01:03:57.400 the scene with 15 Westwood and all that lot, um, small shows.

01:04:01.000 And it was like 15, 20 people, the same 15, 20 people every single time.

01:04:04.980 And even when I was going to a goth club back in Northern Ireland, you'd show up every weekend

01:04:09.040 and it's the same people every single, every single weekend.

01:04:12.200 Right.

01:04:13.060 Um, I can't really talk to what's going on with the scene.

01:04:15.940 Cause as far as I know, the scene, the local scene has died, but a lot of it has sort of

01:04:19.720 gone online.

01:04:20.580 And with this online bravery that they get, these keyboard warriors, they become so emboldened,

01:04:26.440 so brazen to then start, you know, gatekeeping at the door and Reddit, Reddit is the biggest

01:04:31.860 offender of this.

01:04:32.700 Yeah.

01:04:33.000 Reddit's a...

01:04:33.480 Because like even removed from alternative subcultures, Redditors are just the worst.

01:04:39.700 I got tracks taken off of it, like just for, for being hateful because, uh, I did a track

01:04:45.000 with, uh, libertarian goth.

01:04:46.680 Yeah.

01:04:47.000 And...

01:04:47.520 Shout out to LG.

01:04:48.080 Oh yeah.

01:04:48.360 Shout out to LG.

01:04:48.980 Great.

01:04:49.480 Oh, you know what?

01:04:50.040 Okay.

01:04:50.180 Yeah, yeah.

01:04:50.600 I follow her on X.

01:04:51.560 Oh yeah.

01:04:52.080 So we, we did a track together and, um, she crushed it.

01:04:55.360 Right.

01:04:55.560 And, uh, the, the cover was sort of the AI thing, um, she does with like her latte and

01:05:01.720 her Pomeranian and the, the, the hat said, um, make goth great, make America goth again.

01:05:08.820 Yeah.

01:05:09.060 It wasn't quite the...

01:05:09.840 Mine was, mine was make goth great again.

01:05:11.740 Yeah.

01:05:11.960 It was...

01:05:12.820 Mine was global.

01:05:13.660 Right.

01:05:14.080 It was, uh, make America goth again.

01:05:17.220 That was enough.

01:05:18.480 Yeah.

01:05:18.620 It got, they got taken down for being hateful.

01:05:20.700 Like, what are you, are you...

01:05:22.480 I mean, when you think about it, where's the conservative coded in that really?

01:05:27.240 What's what I'm saying?

01:05:28.260 Like, I...

01:05:28.660 It's a general term.

01:05:29.940 Like, that was the one?

01:05:31.200 Like...

01:05:31.760 I'm sorry.

01:05:32.360 You all disagreeing collectively that we should not make goth great again?

01:05:34.760 Well, they hate that phrase because to make anything great again means, uh, like,

01:05:39.360 they can't admit that something was once good.

01:05:41.540 Yeah.

01:05:41.720 Right?

01:05:42.260 Right.

01:05:42.520 So they, they love being on the, in the trauma economy.

01:05:46.340 That's fascinating.

01:05:47.120 That's what it is.

01:05:47.980 They can't ever admit that there was any part of your world that was good.

01:05:52.700 Their world is the only truth.

01:05:54.260 Right?

01:05:54.620 And that's why that phrase, no matter how you frame it, whether it's goth or just what

01:05:58.340 Trump does, uh, make America great again.

01:06:00.280 Yeah.

01:06:00.680 They hate it.

01:06:01.440 It's the, again, that's the problem.

01:06:03.080 Yeah.

01:06:03.260 Because it implies that they're not associated with it being good.

01:06:07.740 That too, yeah.

01:06:08.480 Also the, the idea when you're getting into like the leftist philosophy, the idea of hierarchy

01:06:13.800 is, is they totally reject the idea of hierarchy.

01:06:16.620 The fact that you can, that you would say something is better than something else.

01:06:20.740 You're not allowed to judge.

01:06:22.780 Yeah.

01:06:22.840 You're not allowed because you're exactly, you're judging.

01:06:24.560 So if, if something is better than something, that means there's something that's worse and

01:06:28.520 it's, it's supposed to be all equal.

01:06:29.860 And it's back to the, the socialist, the communist kind of idea.

01:06:32.440 The idea that everybody is the same and there is no better or worse.

01:06:37.340 It's all subjective.

01:06:39.060 There's no thing that is true.

01:06:41.080 It goes back to the crappier bands were the ones that were so mad at me.

01:06:44.320 Well, yeah.

01:06:44.740 I mean, that's that again, that's, that's one of the things it, it, if you're in a band

01:06:48.800 that's not getting the same kind of attention for what, whatever it happens to be, then

01:06:54.400 that's automatically creating a hierarchy and hierarchy is something that, that is inherent.

01:06:58.980 Like people like the songs they like.

01:07:01.160 If a band makes music that people like, more people are going to be attracted to them.

01:07:07.520 And, and there, the, the Prieto distribution is real.

01:07:11.020 The, the, there is a small amount of, of people that are very, very, very successful.

01:07:15.940 And this is, this is the same when you're talking about like the broad society, when it comes

01:07:21.300 to like the entire like music industry, like the, the biggest of the big, but it's, it's

01:07:25.580 the same in, in, you know, subcultures, whether you're talking about, you know, metal bands,

01:07:30.920 golf bands or whatever, there are the bands that everybody knows that everybody likes

01:07:33.980 and, and the other bands, they get a smaller piece of the pie.

01:07:39.900 If you're not as good, man.

01:07:40.920 Yeah.

01:07:41.200 And, and that's something that's offensive to people, particularly the people that happen

01:07:44.680 to be in the smaller bands that aren't getting as big of a piece of the pie.

01:07:48.380 There's, there's a whole lot of crabs in the bucket, you know, and they're, they're

01:07:51.400 looking to pull you down.

01:07:52.200 They, they don't realize that it is just an innate, uh, it's an innate, um, part of

01:07:57.940 humanity is to, uh, uh, create a hierarchical order, which is beneficial for anything to

01:08:04.040 continue.

01:08:04.580 Yeah.

01:08:04.860 And this is why communism doesn't work because it, it completely destroys the natural order

01:08:10.740 of things.

01:08:11.320 But it'll work this time.

01:08:12.700 Yeah.

01:08:12.980 This time it'll work.

01:08:13.880 Okay.

01:08:14.200 It just wasn't given enough.

01:08:15.620 We had never tried it.

01:08:16.840 Really?

01:08:17.680 There wasn't enough champagne socialists last time.

01:08:20.660 Let's get more this time.

01:08:22.200 But, uh, yeah, there's, there's a hierarchy all the time.

01:08:25.240 It is always established, like regardless of whether or not they want to acknowledge

01:08:28.780 it or not.

01:08:29.880 And, uh, within society, they are the, uh, the sort of the, the less liked because they're

01:08:37.240 just so abrasive as human being.

01:08:40.780 And then, I mean, you've met, we've met the collective, we've met the individuals.

01:08:45.500 There's not really much difference there other than how much power they have over your life.

01:08:50.200 And, uh, so to, to sort of, um, suffer at the, the, the, at the hands of these kinds

01:08:57.580 of people who shouldn't have had this power in the first place, we don't know how to wield

01:09:00.200 it, right?

01:09:01.120 This is not a power they should have been given in the first place.

01:09:03.400 Yeah.

01:09:03.540 But, uh, yeah, the, um, the hierarchy within, uh, within anything is only respected because

01:09:10.980 it, it suits their, their motives.

01:09:13.780 It suits their, their ideologies.

01:09:15.080 It's like, this person is the best goth ever and I'm okay with that because she or he parrots

01:09:20.200 what I'm saying.

01:09:21.140 And if she continues to say what I think word for word verbatim to everybody else, then

01:09:27.240 I will allow them to continue being above me.

01:09:29.920 And you, you know, as well, like the second that you, you de-sync from your platform, the

01:09:35.560 moment that you, you, um, misalign morally speaking with your support network of leftist

01:09:41.640 psychopaths, they destroy you entirely.

01:09:44.480 Happened to Crucifera from Goths Against Cancel Culture, who started that group.

01:09:49.420 Um, she's just, she was just like a friend and now is getting like these insanity death

01:09:54.460 threats.

01:09:54.740 She's like, what, what is this?

01:09:56.160 I just started a Facebook group.

01:09:59.340 That's, that's all it takes, man.

01:10:00.600 It's all, honestly, that's all you, it's all you really need.

01:10:02.540 This, this, so this is what I do.

01:10:04.140 Okay.

01:10:04.400 So I was talking to you earlier, Phil, about, um, how I completely replaced my entire sort

01:10:09.960 of viewer base after being, uh, after the cancellation attempt I had.

01:10:14.320 Several years ago.

01:10:15.600 And, uh, what I've discovered, and this is what I'm actually going to be doing a video

01:10:20.160 on real soon.

01:10:21.060 I've got three videos coming up.

01:10:22.240 One's about woke.

01:10:24.180 And, okay, so, so this is actually a goth I bought from home.

01:10:29.300 This is, uh, this is Stuart here.

01:10:33.520 You're in for a good one, chat.

01:10:35.920 He's a very small boy.

01:10:38.200 So this is a baby bet.

01:10:40.120 You must be metalcore.

01:10:41.700 Uh, I am.

01:10:42.940 Goths come out bigger.

01:10:43.980 My name is Stuart.

01:10:48.620 Yes, this is Stuart.

01:10:49.440 This is a goth I bought from home.

01:10:50.800 Uh, no, no, uh, no, Stuart.

01:10:52.320 Where's Timothy?

01:10:54.020 He's sick.

01:10:54.640 He's feeling sick.

01:10:55.240 Timothy, look at me.

01:10:56.980 Look at me, Timothy.

01:10:58.860 This is what happens when you come for Candace Owens.

01:11:04.980 Sorry.

01:11:05.340 Back to your pod, Stuart.

01:11:08.340 Back to your pod, please.

01:11:09.520 Your underground dirt nap awaits.

01:11:11.060 Sorry, Father.

01:11:12.360 Send me to the earth.

01:11:14.040 Give me the second death.

01:11:19.060 I've been, I'm just a baby, Garth, but I've been practicing my singing.

01:11:22.200 You're doing so well.

01:11:23.060 Yeah, give us, give us a, show us your pipes.

01:11:24.640 Show us your pipes.

01:11:25.060 Start spreading the news.

01:11:29.420 I'm leaving today.

01:11:31.420 Perfect.

01:11:32.120 I want to be a part of it in old New York.

01:11:37.460 I want to wake up in the city that doesn't sleep.

01:11:41.320 To find I'm king of the hill, top of the pops.

01:11:45.580 I can't remember the rice and the cream of the crops.

01:11:48.460 These little town blues are melting over.

01:11:53.760 How am I doing?

01:11:54.900 Doing, doing better than we rehearsed.

01:11:57.060 Better than we rehearsed.

01:11:58.140 Do you know what, Stuart?

01:11:58.940 I think, I think your, your dirt nap is waiting for you.

01:12:01.200 I will flood your grave.

01:12:02.480 Save me to the second death, Father.

01:12:03.980 I will flood your grave with Bela Lugosi, Dracula movies.

01:12:06.680 Who the fuck, who the fuck is Bela Lugosi?

01:12:08.680 You will, you will find out shortly.

01:12:10.700 Bye, Father.

01:12:11.560 Goodbye.

01:12:12.080 Goodbye, Stuart.

01:12:13.280 You can have your chair back now, son of a child.

01:12:16.120 Hold, Philip from the band Everything That's Left.

01:12:23.160 Goodbye, Stuart.

01:12:23.880 Wait for me, will you?

01:12:26.220 I love Milo.

01:12:28.160 Milo, I met him last night, got off the plane, and we hit it off immediately.

01:12:34.620 It was great.

01:12:34.960 My stomach is still hurting from laughing.

01:12:37.020 And then he invited me out to, very gracious, to invite me out to Applebee's.

01:12:40.400 Oh, good.

01:12:41.140 Yeah.

01:12:41.660 Applebee's isn't bad.

01:12:42.580 It gets too much hate, man.

01:12:43.960 Did he pay for your dinner?

01:12:46.760 No.

01:12:47.300 Son of a bitch.

01:12:47.980 No, he did not.

01:12:49.480 Did that just happen?

01:12:50.580 Like, I'm still, what?

01:12:52.600 Yeah, that's Milo.

01:12:53.740 Milo Yiannopoulos.

01:12:55.600 Listen, what?

01:12:57.480 We run a pretty-

01:12:58.280 I didn't tell him.

01:12:58.520 I didn't tell him he was here.

01:12:59.540 Good.

01:12:59.860 I didn't know he was coming either.

01:13:00.880 I didn't either.

01:13:01.460 That was awesome.

01:13:02.220 We run a pretty good ship here.

01:13:03.960 And so, like, only Milo out of everyone that could, like, totally bomb a podcast like

01:13:08.820 that.

01:13:09.220 Like, he's the only guy.

01:13:10.700 We planned this last night at Applebee's.

01:13:13.020 Amazing.

01:13:13.380 We, we, I had, I, Coors Light, I, I was, I was lambasted vigorously for buying a beer.

01:13:20.900 And we had fish and chips, or what Americans think fish and chips is.

01:13:26.240 Of course.

01:13:26.640 What they read online was fish and chips.

01:13:28.040 And we concocted this idea for him to dress up like me and come in here.

01:13:33.280 Oh, he did really, he did really well.

01:13:34.860 The only thing, you guys probably didn't see, but he was wearing red shoes, so.

01:13:38.300 It was beautiful red shoes.

01:13:40.100 You should have seen, he was wearing Jude Law's slippers last night.

01:13:42.320 He's just living his truth.

01:13:43.580 Have you told about those Jude Law's slippers?

01:13:45.440 No.

01:13:45.840 Oh, they're beautiful.

01:13:46.560 Get him to tell you about the, the Jude Law slippers.

01:13:50.380 But this is why I've been looking at my phone, because the script for that was down here.

01:13:53.160 Oh, okay, okay, okay.

01:13:55.260 All day, we're hanging out, and he's like, I'm not going to tell you who it is.

01:13:58.380 And like, who could it possibly?

01:13:59.820 That was a perfect impression.

01:14:01.540 You just got that up.

01:14:04.280 That was maybe the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life.

01:14:08.140 Well, you can always rely on Milo to be entertaining.

01:14:11.240 The only place on earth where you can see Milo dressed as a goth is right here.

01:14:15.560 Yeah.

01:14:15.900 That is, that is the culture war difference.

01:14:18.120 Clip it, clip it, share it.

01:14:18.940 It'll be a nice clip, yeah.

01:14:19.860 I was going to say.

01:14:20.500 It's hilarious to think that he was walking around small West Virginia dressed like that.

01:14:25.060 You know what I mean?

01:14:26.120 He did the cross that I have on my face.

01:14:28.460 He did it perfect.

01:14:29.780 He's great.

01:14:31.520 The first time I met Milo, that's probably like 2015, when he was doing the college tour.

01:14:38.100 Oh, right, yeah.

01:14:39.000 He was in Dartmouth.

01:14:40.260 And so this is before his, I think it was still when he was at Breitbart as well.

01:14:45.540 So he had the bus and stuff, and he was like, come check out our bus.

01:14:49.400 It was a decent bus, so it was nice.

01:14:51.360 Nice.

01:14:51.640 It was fun.

01:14:53.520 Well, that did a bit of a derailing.

01:14:55.780 Yeah, what were we talking about?

01:14:56.820 He promised it would not derail.

01:14:58.340 He was like, 30 seconds, 30 seconds, I'll come in and out.

01:15:00.880 30 seconds, it won't derail anything.

01:15:02.380 It's exactly what it did.

01:15:04.000 You know, I mean, it's a fact to follow.

01:15:06.460 He is.

01:15:07.060 He is.

01:15:07.620 He is.

01:15:07.840 But, yeah, so we were talking about, I don't remember exactly what we were discussing before.

01:15:12.840 I think it involved New York.

01:15:13.980 I'm kidding.

01:15:14.640 No.

01:15:15.440 No, you're thinking of Milo again.

01:15:17.720 I'll be thinking of Milo for a while.

01:15:19.460 I know, Jake, you were kind of just slamming communism.

01:15:22.480 We were saying, hey, it'll work next time.

01:15:25.080 We were talking about hierarchy and how beauty is something that goth has always had in part

01:15:33.660 of its imagery, but how the left kind of doesn't really, kind of rejects that because of the

01:15:38.160 fact that they reject the idea of hierarchy.

01:15:39.880 I mean, you could imagine if Sydney was, you know, a leftist, a staunch leftist, and was

01:15:47.780 lying there in her jeans being like, I don't have good jeans, because I'm white.

01:15:54.160 Right.

01:15:54.640 So they would be like, woo, yeah, good job.

01:15:58.400 A further renouncement of anything that is, you know, white and straight.

01:16:02.720 But because she isn't parroting what they're saying, because she's, you know, a proud lioness

01:16:09.960 in the face of adversity, I'm coming around to her.

01:16:13.560 I really am.

01:16:14.220 Okay.

01:16:14.620 Yeah.

01:16:14.900 I saw that interview that she did with Miss Smarmy.

01:16:18.500 Oh, God.

01:16:19.380 Can't really be making jokes about that.

01:16:21.080 A boatload of memes to follow, you know.

01:16:24.160 I do think that this is something that is worth drilling down on, though.

01:16:29.820 The fact that the left has kind of embraced goth because it does walk the, or goth has

01:16:38.520 embraced the left, maybe, because it does walk the line with being counterculture enough

01:16:44.400 in imagery.

01:16:46.860 But the ideas that they share and they believe they can, it's safe to say, oh, well, we want

01:16:52.600 everyone to be nice, and we just want people to be nice and accepting.

01:16:58.680 And that's something that is, you know, like we talked about earlier, it's something that

01:17:03.200 historically has been part of subcultures and counterculture because people that are attracted

01:17:08.740 to these things, usually it's because they've been rejected by the mainstream, or they feel

01:17:13.320 like they've been rejected by the mainstream.

01:17:14.800 It's youth is what it is.

01:17:16.800 So one of the biggest demographics for any of these alternative subcultures, obviously,

01:17:21.900 is, you know, is youth.

01:17:23.140 It's the young, it's the, you know, the teenagers, the ones who kind of like, you know, exploring

01:17:27.680 themselves, self-expression.

01:17:28.880 And this was always relatively, you know, non-partisan, this kind of thing.

01:17:34.640 There was, I mean, you remember being kids, like the last thing you wanted to fucking talk

01:17:38.440 about was politics.

01:17:39.600 Right.

01:17:40.000 Right.

01:17:40.260 You know, someone would bring it up, you foresaw the argument, and like, you know, I

01:17:43.600 don't want to talk about this.

01:17:44.640 And then you could continue going on, just enjoying, you know, the music or the swishy

01:17:49.140 capes or whatever and stuff like that.

01:17:51.900 Around 2019, there was a radicalization of the youth.

01:17:55.060 And while the youth were comprising alternative subcultures, they were radicalized at some

01:18:00.640 point.

01:18:01.060 And that is when the acquisition happened of alternative subcultures, which is why they

01:18:05.200 think it's inherently theirs, because they had it in their grasp when they were radicalized.

01:18:09.100 But of course, a leftist from 1979, 1983 is not the same leftist as they are now.

01:18:14.500 They would reject them entirely.

01:18:16.540 It's like, it's this rejection of this is reality.

01:18:19.560 So to that point, there's this band called Earth Crisis.

01:18:22.740 Right.

01:18:22.920 That are, they're a straight edge, vegan, hardcore band for people watching.

01:18:27.060 There's a lot of those, actually.

01:18:27.880 Yeah, I know.

01:18:28.560 Yeah.

01:18:28.800 But when they, their most famous song, arguably, is a song called Firestorm.

01:18:33.800 Yeah.

01:18:33.980 Right.

01:18:34.320 And it's a hardcore classic.

01:18:38.000 Like everybody, every, you know, when the song would start, the pit would just erupt.

01:18:43.480 And it was...

01:18:44.900 Is it safe to play on air, Phil?

01:18:46.420 Yeah, you can play it.

01:18:47.880 It's not a...

01:18:49.360 I wish I'd written a song called Firestorm.

01:18:51.420 It's great.

01:18:51.880 It's, it's so good.

01:18:56.200 Yeah.

01:18:58.900 But back in the day, these guys were staunchly anti-abortion.

01:19:04.360 Okay.

01:19:04.640 Yeah.

01:19:04.780 Because their perspective was, you know, unborn kids, first of all, they're kids.

01:19:10.560 It was John Lydon as well.

01:19:11.620 Oh, was he?

01:19:12.100 Yeah.

01:19:12.200 Yeah.

01:19:12.380 There's an anti-abortion song by the sex person.

01:19:14.300 So their, their, their, their take was, these are unborn, these are children, right?

01:19:19.380 So they're, they're unborn children and they're the most innocent.

01:19:22.200 And it's a horrible thing to kill them.

01:19:25.520 Yeah.

01:19:25.840 And now that would be absolutely, you know, abhorrent to anyone on the left.

01:19:30.100 And, and, and like I said, the, the song is the, you know, it's like the, the lyrics are street by street, block by block, taking it all back.

01:19:37.160 The youth infected poison, turn the tide counterattack, violence against violence, let the roundups begin, a firestorm to purify the, the bane that society's drowning.

01:19:47.520 And it's, it's like, it's brutal.

01:19:49.560 Yeah.

01:19:49.900 Right.

01:19:50.280 But they're talking about rounding up drug users, rounding up people that are, you know, that are basically destroying society.

01:19:59.020 Yeah.

01:19:59.220 And now that's, I can't imagine, I don't think they play, I don't think they play anymore, but if they did, I can't imagine.

01:20:07.160 A leftist listening to that song and thinking, yeah, like I, I, I imagine they would be, they wouldn't acknowledge it, you know?

01:20:14.800 That would, that would be like memory hall.

01:20:16.440 That would be 1984 down, down into the accelerator.

01:20:19.680 Leftism is your local government actually hands out crack pipes.

01:20:22.860 So the drugs, you can do drugs safely.

01:20:25.320 Yeah.

01:20:25.720 Yes, exactly.

01:20:26.440 Right.

01:20:26.720 So it's subsidized drug use.

01:20:28.440 Yes.

01:20:29.040 So, because it's an old tax then, of course, and, and, and all the poor are paying for it so that it's back on the streets again.

01:20:35.100 And if you disagree, you're not punk rock.

01:20:36.780 Yeah.

01:20:37.500 Yeah.

01:20:37.760 And, and, but again, like the, the, the imagery in the song is, you know, anything but what a standard leftist would, would accept, right?

01:20:49.300 The, the topics that they, they cover and, and these guys, again, straight edge vegans, you know, but that even back then in the nineties, you could have differing opinions.

01:21:00.860 Now, I will say that if you were in the nineties, if you were at a straight edge, uh, hardcore show, you better not light up a Marlboro.

01:21:09.340 Okay.

01:21:09.860 You better, you better not light a cigarette.

01:21:12.460 Okay.

01:21:12.820 They're, they're not going to take well.

01:21:14.540 Ben, Ben's their straight edge.

01:21:15.880 Yeah.

01:21:16.100 I think I've seen, I've seen some bad things happen to dudes that thought that it was okay to smoke at an, at an earth crisis show.

01:21:21.600 Um, but, but even still like the idea that you would be excluded, you know, from, from going to their show, just so long as you played by the, again, played by the rules at the show.

01:21:33.760 Like they weren't, they weren't telling you, you couldn't go.

01:21:37.660 And, and again, this is, this is as counterculture as it gets in 1993, you know, in 1994, earth crisis singing about how they're against drugs and they're against, you know, uh, against eating meat and stuff.

01:21:50.540 Well, they're doing, you've seen this already, this, this like delusional takes that we, I think it's like red jumpsuit, uh, red jumpsuit apparatus.

01:21:58.180 Yeah.

01:21:58.580 And, um, Hayley Williams just came out and, uh, sort of spewed the same rhetoric where it's just like, I don't want these people at my shows.

01:22:06.180 And it's just kind of like, please just lay out just some of the basic foundations on how you're even going to curate the fans that come to your fucking show.

01:22:14.920 Yeah.

01:22:15.780 It's all surface level.

01:22:17.120 Yeah, of course, because it sounds good.

01:22:18.780 There's no way you can enforce this.

01:22:20.340 I imagine.

01:22:20.860 It's just, it's a virtue signal.

01:22:21.920 I imagine it boils down to don't wear a make America gradient hat.

01:22:25.080 Yeah.

01:22:25.280 But then you can go and then be like, woo, yeah, like misery business.

01:22:29.760 What a great track.

01:22:30.540 And then you go into the ballot and you vote Trump again.

01:22:32.500 Yeah.

01:22:32.820 Like, what does it matter?

01:22:33.560 We're dealing with this.

01:22:34.720 Um, we're experiencing this right now with Brandon Miner, shout out on the team.

01:22:37.980 We, uh, we were at the Pentagon during just, just Wednesday and we're interviewing people and we made it to the daily show today and they're trashing their appearance.

01:22:46.420 It's nothing, not the questions they're asking, uh, nothing about who they are as people.

01:22:50.400 They have to dunk on their appearance because that's all they have.

01:22:52.940 It's all surface level.

01:22:54.100 And, and, uh, straw man fallacies all the time.

01:22:57.580 And they eat that stuff up though.

01:22:59.160 They love it though.

01:23:00.400 They love it.

01:23:00.820 Which is, it's the saddest part to me is just like, it is popular.

01:23:03.860 It's successful what they're doing, you know?

01:23:05.940 Because the way they rose to power, they were, they were given it, right?

01:23:09.500 They never, because they never earned it.

01:23:10.860 They never achieved it.

01:23:11.660 There's no stable foundations to the ideologies.

01:23:15.620 There's, there's, there's nothing, there's nothing, uh, that, that is so immutable, uh, about the ideal, about the movement that it could be entered into debates and could wipe the fucking floor with people.

01:23:27.720 Right?

01:23:27.960 There's nothing there like that, which is why they don't debate, which is why they always resort to ad hominem, which is why they always resort to using straw man fallacies.

01:23:36.720 It's because they need to either attack the way you look, and if you're gorgeous, then they will purposefully misrepresent what you're saying in order to make it, uh, justified to attack it.

01:23:48.320 This is why they won't debate.

01:23:49.340 Yeah.

01:23:49.480 Because their entire ethos, all their ideology is wrong.

01:23:52.960 All of it is, it's pure fallacy.

01:23:55.680 There, there's no, uh, strong foundational structure to the things that they are pushing politically speaking.

01:24:01.620 And this is why they shoot you.

01:24:04.000 This is why they get you fired.

01:24:06.720 This is why they cancel you.

01:24:08.080 This is why, you know, they're, they're trying to run you out of town.

01:24:11.960 You can't play shows.

01:24:13.360 Your fucking wife leaves you.

01:24:15.220 This is, this is, this is why they do this because they have, they have no respectable way to truly defend their position.

01:24:23.160 Like, like we do, because of everything we say is based in sound fact and logic.

01:24:28.360 Sure.

01:24:28.840 There's opinions in there.

01:24:30.060 Like you can say they're all fuck ugly.

01:24:32.780 Right.

01:24:33.500 But even that could be, you know, objective, not subjective.

01:24:36.620 That could be factually true.

01:24:37.980 Right.

01:24:38.360 Everyone would agree that some of these are.

01:24:40.740 Right.

01:24:40.920 Well, when you, you know, when you have a, what's the influencer that's obese and because of the election results in Tennessee had an asthma attack.

01:24:47.720 Right.

01:24:48.240 Wow.

01:24:48.840 Really is something.

01:24:49.540 Texas.

01:24:49.700 Yeah.

01:24:51.460 Objectively, this person's unhealthy.

01:24:53.160 Being unhealthy is unattractive.

01:24:54.660 Like, that's not an opinion.

01:24:56.320 You know, people aren't attracted to unhealthy people.

01:24:57.380 It's an objective truth.

01:24:58.480 Yes.

01:24:58.580 Right.

01:24:59.020 Yeah.

01:24:59.300 I mean, look, when it comes to, to beauty standards, as much as the left wants to say that, that they're somehow created by men and that they're somehow subjective and stuff.

01:25:10.980 It's not.

01:25:12.160 When, when a man sees an attractive woman and you can look at, at, you know, studies that have, have essentially broken down what men find attractive and stuff.

01:25:22.440 It's always the same.

01:25:23.880 And it's the same basically from culture to culture.

01:25:27.980 Yeah.

01:25:28.080 Right.

01:25:28.220 Like there, there's some variation, some, some people like women that are a little more voluptuous than others, but, but at the end of the day, you know, narrow waist, a little bit wider hips, fairly symmetrical face, you know, small noses.

01:25:41.660 These, these things are, are what men find attractive and that has nothing to do with society's decisions.

01:25:48.380 This is, this is all based on, on, I mean, it's based on evolution.

01:25:53.040 Honestly, it's, it's based on the things that evolution has said, these, these traits are most likely to provide you with offspring and that will be healthy and that will survive.

01:26:05.080 Well, that can't be true because I read on the internet that men and women are the same and it said it on the internet.

01:26:10.120 So like, you know.

01:26:11.180 And in fact, one can be the other.

01:26:12.540 Right.

01:26:12.960 Right.

01:26:13.340 And you can't just like.

01:26:14.740 As an, as an absolute.

01:26:16.020 As an, as an unquestionable absolute.

01:26:18.780 And if you do question it.

01:26:20.640 But this is, this has always been their contention.

01:26:22.320 And this is where we're operating from.

01:26:23.600 We're, you know, it's a biological fact.

01:26:25.660 It's not even just gender here.

01:26:27.440 It's more just what, what they wish people found attractive, them, and what people actually biologically have found attractive through, you know, evolution and what actually works, what makes people want to put something in another place.

01:26:41.280 Right.

01:26:41.880 This, these are all factual, you know.

01:26:44.520 And, and to your, to your point, like with the, the prevalence now of, of GLP-1 inhibitors, things like Ozempic.

01:26:51.700 Ozempic, yeah.

01:26:52.320 And, and Manjaro.

01:26:53.460 Yeah.

01:26:53.640 You're, you're seeing the body positivity.

01:26:56.060 It's like Ozempic becomes.

01:26:57.140 Out the window.

01:26:57.160 It's like Ozempic becomes a thing.

01:26:59.540 And the body positivity movement, the most affected, right?

01:27:02.100 Like no longer are the people that are, that were saying, oh, I'm body positive.

01:27:08.480 Like they're no longer body positive.

01:27:10.180 Okay.

01:27:10.480 Well, that's, that's a little extreme.

01:27:12.280 Yeah.

01:27:12.780 But, uh.

01:27:13.320 What happened on the set of Wicked, man?

01:27:15.040 I don't know.

01:27:15.760 No, but it's.

01:27:16.260 Where is her life force and who sucked it out of her?

01:27:18.580 So, a lot of people, but this is, this is how prevalent, uh, the Ozempic and GLP-1 is, is instead, like she could be anorexic.

01:27:26.260 Nobody knows what, she could be sick.

01:27:27.880 No one knows what's going on.

01:27:29.080 But people are dunking on her for being using Ozempic.

01:27:32.020 And it's not really about Ariana.

01:27:34.220 Obviously, look how skinny she looks.

01:27:35.840 The whole cast did that, though.

01:27:37.140 The whole cast, like collectively lost like a ton between.

01:27:39.700 It just goes to show how, how prevalent that use is, that now it's being memed.

01:27:44.160 And you must, if you're super skinny like that, you must be taking Ozempic.

01:27:48.180 Yeah.

01:27:48.320 Yeah.

01:27:48.400 I, I, I think, and this is, this is, this is just a conjecture, but her and her co-star, uh, they recently had a, uh, uh, an interview where they said that they were in a, some kind of weird name, demisexual, non, uh, non-monogamous.

01:28:09.300 The word salad of a relationship, yeah.

01:28:11.240 Um, and, and people have seen it where, the way that they behave on the press tour, um, it was more than just being co-stars, uh, they were touchy-feely with each other and stuff.

01:28:23.720 And, and they both have this kind of, you know, both have this gaunt look now.

01:28:28.240 So this, again, this is just conjecture.

01:28:30.440 This is just me looking at the situation, but it, it seems like some kind of codependency, uh, based on.

01:28:37.380 I wouldn't be shocked.

01:28:38.060 I don't know if this was, I don't know if this was someone joking.

01:28:40.540 I really don't know if it was.

01:28:42.640 And someone in the chat will obviously call me out immediately.

01:28:45.380 And this is, this is just me sort of re-irritating, re-iterating what I saw on Twitter.

01:28:49.840 Apparently they had to cancel the press tour because of how unbelievably cringed they were.

01:28:54.240 Oh, wow.

01:28:54.960 Oof.

01:28:55.420 And, and do you know what?

01:28:56.440 Even if it's not true, how fucking believable is that?

01:28:59.260 I have zero issue.

01:29:00.680 Everyone in here went, yeah, yeah.

01:29:02.260 I heard, I heard they had to cancel it because they were the infighting between the two stars.

01:29:06.720 Oh, really?

01:29:07.180 Yeah.

01:29:07.700 So I heard that there was.

01:29:08.740 Not being touchy-feely enough with each other.

01:29:10.540 Which is also cringe.

01:29:11.520 Listen, like that's the thing.

01:29:13.260 You can't, you have to be all in 100%.

01:29:15.720 Even if you're an all in 99%, you're done.

01:29:18.740 Right?

01:29:19.540 That body, that, that people call it a cult.

01:29:22.940 I think that word is used too much.

01:29:24.380 But that cult will reject you unless you're 100% in and the rules are arbitrary and they change every day.

01:29:29.640 Yeah, but I do want to go back to the point about how the body positivity movement has ended because of-

01:29:37.600 It was always about the means.

01:29:38.740 Yeah, because it was, it was, it was about the fact that people wanted validation for the way that they were.

01:29:47.500 Yeah.

01:29:47.720 But it didn't mean that they actually believed that it was healthy.

01:29:51.220 Healthy at any size is going away.

01:29:53.060 Yeah.

01:29:53.560 It didn't mean that they actually believed that they were beautiful.

01:29:56.440 Even though, you know, nine out of 10 women will look at the 10th woman and no matter what she looks like, they'll say, oh, you know, you're a 10, you're beautiful.

01:30:04.740 And that's something that, that the, the, the, whatever podcast has, has shown a light on, you know, and, and made it very clear that, that women will consistently lie to each other about, you know, what they look like, their, their aesthetics.

01:30:18.420 And, and now that, that you've got things like Ozempic and, and Manjaro and stuff, the body positivity movie movement is going away because it has been based on a lie.

01:30:29.860 And I think that that speaks to a lot of the, the way that the left kind of frames the world.

01:30:35.180 It's all them trying to assert what they want into reality, as opposed to responding to reality and taking action in their life to taking difficult action in their life to, to do what they can to better themselves and better their lives.

01:30:51.060 And you see it with people that are Caleb Hammer, right?

01:30:54.820 He's a financial YouTuber.

01:30:56.380 He, he goes and basically breaks down people's spending and says, you know, this is wrong.

01:31:01.560 This is wrong.

01:31:02.160 And, and I mean, he's, he's a little on the coarse side because some people need tough love, but it's not that people are unable to manage money.

01:31:12.700 It's, or it's not that, it's not that people are unable to earn money.

01:31:16.000 Caleb has made it very clear that people make bad decisions and it comes back to their own decisions.

01:31:21.780 And that's the same thing with people that in the body positivity movement.

01:31:24.320 It wasn't that they, they actually believed that they were beautiful at any size.

01:31:29.580 It was that they didn't want to do the hard things to become smaller.

01:31:33.860 The people that are people that tend to be poor more often than not, it's not that they are being oppressed by a billionaire or by society.

01:31:45.400 It's that they make bad money decisions.

01:31:47.660 It's that they finance burritos from Taco Bell with Klarna.

01:31:50.780 Yeah.

01:31:51.020 You know, it's, it's bad decisions.

01:31:52.900 And that's something that the left totally rejects because they don't like the idea of having better outcomes from better.

01:32:01.340 Goes back to hierarchy.

01:32:02.380 Goes back to hierarchy.

01:32:03.100 And this also goes, leads straight back into the same point where the way they then reattain power, right?

01:32:12.520 So instead of just being like, I'm not willing to put in the work, I guess I'll just be fat and ugly for the rest of my life.

01:32:16.340 They're like, no, no, no.

01:32:17.120 I'm not doing any of the work, but I'm still beautiful as hell.

01:32:21.020 That's the power.

01:32:21.820 I'm not going to run to the finish line.

01:32:23.220 I'm going to bring the finish line to me.

01:32:24.600 Right.

01:32:25.080 Yeah.

01:32:25.260 So they're, they're sort of, um, they're creating this, this false, uh, this false narrative that, you know, people would virtue signal around thus giving it its power.

01:32:37.260 People are like, I'm beautiful any size.

01:32:38.880 Yeah.

01:32:39.120 And then because of the, the amount of, um, you know, power, this, a lot of people then would, you know, sort of agree with this.

01:32:45.180 And then the collective is created.

01:32:47.820 And then this is.

01:32:49.320 And it only works if you're forced to believe it, right?

01:32:51.420 But it was always, it was always the means.

01:32:53.820 That was the problem, right?

01:32:56.060 As you said, Phil, it wasn't, it wasn't like they actually believed that health at any size.

01:33:00.320 They didn't actually believe they're beautiful at that size.

01:33:02.640 They looked at the effort it would take to get from where they are to a winner.

01:33:06.600 And they were like, that's too much.

01:33:08.220 I can't do that.

01:33:09.200 Instead, what I'm going to do is redefine what it means to be a fucking loser.

01:33:14.380 And, you know, they, they shouldn't have had this poll.

01:33:17.980 They shouldn't have had this influence.

01:33:19.100 And a bunch of them died one year.

01:33:20.500 I don't know if you remember this, Phil.

01:33:21.280 There's like six or seven that died.

01:33:23.820 Blair White actually has done a couple of videos on how many.

01:33:26.440 I saw that.

01:33:27.240 That's the one I saw.

01:33:27.860 And it's, it's, it's, it's horrible.

01:33:30.360 It's obviously it's bad.

01:33:31.580 People die.

01:33:32.120 This is bad.

01:33:32.540 We're not gloating about this.

01:33:33.380 What we're saying is, is that it, this is the destructive nature of things like, you

01:33:37.860 know, the, the, the body, the fat positivity movement.

01:33:40.620 It wasn't body positive.

01:33:41.980 Yeah.

01:33:42.380 Yeah.

01:33:42.640 Again, this is, this is one of the, the double speak, like the, the misnomers they use in order

01:33:46.740 to like glorify their movements.

01:33:48.620 Cause it wasn't body positive.

01:33:50.080 It wasn't like people who were in great shape were also being commended and respected and

01:33:54.280 like you, but it was just them exclusively.

01:33:57.220 And then once the means to, uh, simplify the path between looking like a bore and then

01:34:05.840 looking, you know, gorgeous and fitting into all your clothes and feeling good, feeling good

01:34:09.720 about yourself the first time because a drug came along, a magic pill.

01:34:13.540 They were like, hell yes.

01:34:15.320 It, it was the most ironic thing.

01:34:18.020 Like we were just like, how do we stop the fat positive, positivity movement?

01:34:23.140 How can we end this destructive thing?

01:34:24.700 How can we do this?

01:34:25.420 How, how, how?

01:34:25.960 This is so insane.

01:34:26.820 There's so many people here.

01:34:27.560 They're causing so much damage.

01:34:28.500 And then it turns out they destroyed it themselves.

01:34:30.420 It's like hilarious.

01:34:32.360 Mercifully, they destroyed it themselves.

01:34:33.460 Yeah.

01:34:34.120 Thank you.

01:34:34.500 The, the, the theme of like every, if you ever watch one of those documentaries on people

01:34:37.980 getting out of like Scientology, like the one thing that they all have in common

01:34:41.260 is I thought I was the only one and I was walking around this big fake plastic smile.

01:34:44.600 And then, but like everybody thinks they're the only one.

01:34:47.380 Right.

01:34:48.320 I have to, I have to push back a little bit because you would think as like Lizzo, let's

01:34:53.820 take her for example.

01:34:54.540 She was big on the body positivity movement and now she's getting skinny.

01:34:58.080 Right.

01:34:58.620 Yeah.

01:34:58.860 And you would think if you're like a young leftist that subscribed to that, like, yeah,

01:35:02.380 you know what?

01:35:02.860 There's nothing wrong with being obese.

01:35:04.340 And now you're seeing all these celebrities get skinny thanks to these drugs.

01:35:08.000 Yeah.

01:35:08.460 I would feel lied to, but we're not really seeing that.

01:35:11.060 Like I would, that would push me away from the left and I don't think that's translating.

01:35:15.140 You know, I don't think that's happening.

01:35:16.140 There definitely is a side of these people being dropped from grace.

01:35:21.000 It's definitely not as televised because they don't want to publicly flog some of their

01:35:25.260 biggest proponents of their movement.

01:35:27.060 But yeah, I, I, to your point, Kellen, I, I don't see people feeling like, or expressing

01:35:33.500 that they feel like they were lied to.

01:35:35.400 I, I, I don't feel like people are, are saying that they feel victimized.

01:35:42.180 Like they are putting the people that have done the thing to get skinnier.

01:35:47.660 They're saying, well, they were liars.

01:35:49.900 So the, the people that are, are, are, are, you know, we're in the body positivity movement

01:35:54.060 that didn't take the drugs or what have you.

01:35:55.840 The people that looked up to Lizzo or, or Amy Schumer.

01:35:59.240 Yeah.

01:35:59.420 Amy Schumer.

01:35:59.960 Whoever.

01:36:01.100 Tess Holliday.

01:36:01.980 Yeah.

01:36:02.160 Who's the girl that I'm all about that base?

01:36:04.700 She's Omega Traynor.

01:36:05.640 She's super skinny now.

01:36:07.080 Another victim of the Ozempic.

01:36:09.000 Yeah.

01:36:09.320 Well, I don't want to say they're all on Ozempic because I don't know, but they're all

01:36:12.580 getting healthy, which is great.

01:36:13.920 Yeah.

01:36:14.200 No, this is good.

01:36:15.120 Okay.

01:36:15.420 Look, look, that's not misconstrued.

01:36:16.980 We, we are happy that they are, you know, losing weight and doing it publicly and sort of

01:36:21.920 setting a good example.

01:36:22.760 This is, this was always our problem with the, the body positive, positive, the, the fat movement

01:36:27.720 was the fact that it was destructive.

01:36:29.880 It was giving a bad example to, to young people like, Hey, maybe I don't need to like go to

01:36:34.980 the gym or eat right.

01:36:36.360 But you don't see people internalizing it.

01:36:39.360 You see people externalizing it.

01:36:42.280 You're the problem for losing the weight.

01:36:44.800 Yeah.

01:36:45.260 You're the problem.

01:36:46.540 I don't see people saying, Oh man, I was lied to.

01:36:50.340 Maybe I should make changes.

01:36:52.280 They're not doing that.

01:36:53.620 They're saying Megan Trainor's the problem.

01:36:55.740 How could she?

01:36:56.760 Adele.

01:36:57.400 How could Adele do this?

01:36:59.420 She had a lot of backlash.

01:37:00.620 Yeah.

01:37:00.760 I mean, in a nutshell, it's their fault.

01:37:02.860 It's, it's exactly, it's never their fault.

01:37:04.840 It's not the people that are, that looked up to these.

01:37:07.200 Lana Del Rey.

01:37:08.160 Yeah.

01:37:08.500 Well, yeah, exactly.

01:37:09.520 Like, did she really marry that guy?

01:37:11.320 I think so.

01:37:12.220 That is an amazing story, man.

01:37:13.580 And she, she goes and she, like on the, on the red carpet, she's like, isn't my husband

01:37:17.380 so cute?

01:37:18.020 By the way, it's, it's adorable.

01:37:19.060 I see out of all the Netflix documentaries that they pump out.

01:37:21.860 I'd watch that one.

01:37:22.620 I would definitely watch.

01:37:23.300 I would watch that one.

01:37:24.100 But yeah, I don't, you don't see people internalizing it.

01:37:26.900 They're externalizing it.

01:37:27.740 They're saying, how dare you?

01:37:29.420 They're blaming, they're, they're saying you're wrong for getting healthy.

01:37:33.020 You're wrong for losing the weight.

01:37:34.760 You're making, because you're making me feel bad now about the way that I am.

01:37:40.200 And you're probably right.

01:37:40.880 Cause there's that graph that we reference all the time.

01:37:43.200 I'll find it here in a second that liberal women in America are only becoming more, they're

01:37:48.400 only moving further.

01:37:49.700 Yeah.

01:37:50.220 They're moving.

01:37:50.600 So they're only doubling down.

01:37:52.200 Yeah.

01:37:52.360 And I mean, that's something that, that is, it's not just liberal women that, that do

01:37:58.440 that.

01:37:58.660 That's something that's inherent to people.

01:38:00.540 Like when, when people are, have a strongly held belief and they're presented with evidence

01:38:05.500 to the contrary, they say, no, no, no, no, no.

01:38:09.100 And they double down.

01:38:10.160 They, they don't tend to say, oh, I'm going to take this information and I'm going to internalize

01:38:15.520 it and, and, and, and make it a part of my life.

01:38:17.820 They say, no, they reject it out of hand and they double down.

01:38:20.720 You better be quiet, mister.

01:38:22.060 You're going to time out.

01:38:23.160 Well, the, the thing that this graph is saying here, this, this, uh, this dramatic, uh, drop

01:38:28.000 towards, uh, uh, increase it towards, this is Orwellian.

01:38:31.940 Yeah.

01:38:32.840 Because he, he described women as the, the, the greatest proponents of the message.

01:38:38.080 They would, uh, swallow the slogans.

01:38:40.240 I think he said almost for a bit.

01:38:41.760 That's why advertisers target women largely.

01:38:43.820 Uh, they're more easily manipulated by advertising campaigns.

01:38:47.640 And perhaps maybe this is why the outrage against, uh, some of these former, uh, larger

01:38:51.960 celebrities was so muted because they're also now all on Ozempic.

01:38:55.800 Well, I'm, I mean, you can, you can hope because.

01:38:58.880 Well, you can hope, yeah.

01:38:59.880 You know, because.

01:39:00.420 I would prefer they just went for a hike, but yeah.

01:39:02.400 If they.

01:39:03.560 Put the fork down.

01:39:04.940 Um, I mean, it, it is, it is true though.

01:39:08.500 The, the, the people that are the most committed, you're not going to convince them

01:39:13.600 with, with facts and logic because it's emotion based.

01:39:16.220 It's, it's, it's how I feel based.

01:39:17.680 And so when, when the other person decides they're going to make a change, they take

01:39:21.600 that as, as an affront to them and they take it, it's an insult to them.

01:39:25.260 It's when the power shifts, that's how you change their mind because that's what they're

01:39:29.020 pursuing, right?

01:39:29.700 Is power.

01:39:30.400 They want to be the, the largest, uh, collective.

01:39:33.920 This is why there, maybe there hasn't been such a, an outrage about these, these celebrities

01:39:38.140 sort of losing weight.

01:39:39.420 Now that, now that, now the, because the power is sort of shifting towards losing weight,

01:39:43.500 they're, they're also going to be following that as well.

01:39:45.360 They don't want to be the minority that's left fat while everyone else is, is, is pretty.

01:39:49.300 So they're like, okay, then we'll, we'll just follow where the power, we'll follow where

01:39:52.240 the celebrities are going.

01:39:52.960 We'll follow the power.

01:39:54.620 Maybe that's, maybe that's.

01:39:55.460 Well, I mean, I think that's accurate and relates back to, you know, the backlash against

01:40:00.880 you and I.

01:40:01.640 Well, this is, but this is exactly what I said in one of my videos.

01:40:04.240 Right.

01:40:04.680 I, cause do you remember my video where I said, I'm, I'm like laying out stuff.

01:40:07.800 That was a good one.

01:40:08.420 Yeah.

01:40:08.860 I, I laid out step-by-step exactly what is going to happen with alternative subcultures.

01:40:13.420 And because of people like me and because of people like Brian and the, what is it?

01:40:17.200 16,000 beautiful people in the, the Goths Against Cancel Culture.

01:40:20.660 GAC.

01:40:21.300 G-A-C-C.

01:40:22.380 G-A-C-C.

01:40:22.900 I just want to make sure it's a Goths Against Cancel Culture on Facebook.

01:40:25.160 Um, because of all these wonderful people, if, if we can make such a, a massive graphic

01:40:32.260 shift like this, right?

01:40:33.840 If we can, if we can get the sort of, uh, line graph of Goth going, you know, from, from

01:40:39.440 liberal to back to the center, if the power is taken away from being an outspoken big mouth

01:40:45.480 leftist, if that is no longer cool, if that's no longer getting you likes on Instagram, if

01:40:49.640 that's no longer getting you high fives at the Antifa meetups, they'll drop it themselves.

01:40:55.120 Yeah.

01:40:55.440 They're freaking out.

01:40:56.140 It's the same with the fat movement, right?

01:40:57.200 The second they were given an out, they were like, well, okay, well, we'll do it.

01:41:00.600 We're out of here.

01:41:01.120 What's going to happen.

01:41:01.780 There's going to be some influence.

01:41:03.160 Let's say like Michelle Obama, she'll come out and she'll like retweet an article and

01:41:07.220 be like, were we wrong about obesity?

01:41:09.360 Yeah.

01:41:09.580 And then you'll see, okay, now it's time, everyone.

01:41:11.280 We can now change our opinion on this, on this, right?

01:41:14.280 Collectively.

01:41:14.720 Not only change opinion, but totally retcon history.

01:41:17.260 That PR.

01:41:17.640 The whole time.

01:41:18.780 The retconning history.

01:41:19.460 Again, Orwellian, right?

01:41:20.740 Yes.

01:41:20.960 This rewriting of history in order to suit the current narrative.

01:41:24.100 We were always right.

01:41:25.560 You're always on the right side of history if you constantly change what history was.

01:41:29.260 Yeah.

01:41:29.740 So we were talking, you guys were mentioning the Goths Against Cancelled Culture Facebook

01:41:33.720 group, and it's had significant growth in the past, how long, a year?

01:41:38.900 Exponential.

01:41:39.440 A month and a half.

01:41:40.380 Oh, really?

01:41:40.860 Yeah.

01:41:41.060 It's like really recent.

01:41:41.900 And the same with my personal Discord as well, which is just an extension of it.

01:41:44.920 It's like several thousand people in there.

01:41:46.480 Okay.

01:41:46.660 So I guess the question I have then is, do you think that this kind of, because I mean,

01:41:54.120 goth and metal music, industrial music, they're definitely still subcultures.

01:41:59.780 I mean, metal's probably, well, I'm not sure that goth and metal are comparable.

01:42:05.700 We all hang out under the pool.

01:42:07.020 Oh, no, I would say they're joined at the hip these days.

01:42:10.580 Yeah.

01:42:10.940 Well, the point that I'm making is they're not as underground as industrial, I would say.

01:42:15.220 I think industrial music probably still is.

01:42:17.280 Yeah.

01:42:17.740 You know, you've got Nine Inch Nails that, you know, arguably people might say is industrial

01:42:21.880 or based in industrial.

01:42:22.960 But there's not a lot of bands that kind of play around in that space the way that there

01:42:29.200 are bands that play around in the goth and the metal space.

01:42:31.100 And so I would say that goth and metal are more mainstream.

01:42:34.220 But the point that I'm making is the movement, right?

01:42:39.380 The movement from the left to the right, the increase in your discord, the increase in the

01:42:44.480 goths against cancel culture Facebook group, that kind of stuff, if it's, you know, 16,000,

01:42:51.480 20,000, that's as much as it's great growth, it's not enough to reach a critical mass.

01:42:57.740 And I'm wondering if you guys feel like there is that kind of energy where you could reach

01:43:03.560 a critical mass to really kind of start to shape the underground, or do you think that

01:43:09.360 it's still going to be a long slog?

01:43:11.160 Because again, a lot of people is one thing, but to shape, you know, to have enough to really

01:43:16.500 shape the underground, shape the way that people think, that's a different animal.

01:43:20.620 And I'm wondering how you guys feel about, you know, whether or not it's actually something

01:43:25.300 that's going to have a lasting impact and actually start to really shape the overall opinions.

01:43:30.880 Yeah.

01:43:31.160 Well, I was telling Brian this last night in the hotel, the fact that we're even here

01:43:35.640 means that we're approaching something that could be considered critical mass.

01:43:40.820 This has been so isolated for so long, and they get to play around with it, and they get

01:43:44.360 to like do and say like whatever they want, they get to make the rules.

01:43:48.120 I don't play by the rules, right?

01:43:50.100 Ironically, I am a rebel.

01:43:51.280 I am a punk within this alternative subculture.

01:43:53.620 I'm causing such a stir.

01:43:55.200 And the fact that we're getting to this point now, and we're here talking to you on this

01:43:59.220 platform, and we're able to sort of bring to light the sort of authoritarianism that has

01:44:06.480 existed with alternative subcultures, and the support that this could potentially garner

01:44:10.880 means that the 16,000 that has existed while it's been an underground movement this entire

01:44:15.900 time, even beyond, you know, this podcast, even with, you know, beyond with the videos

01:44:21.500 that I'm going to be doing, it's only pointing to the fact that trending-wise, this is going

01:44:25.700 to continue.

01:44:26.520 Oh, yeah.

01:44:26.880 Yeah.

01:44:27.460 16,000 is not a fluke.

01:44:29.000 No.

01:44:29.340 I mean, it's, and to that point, it's gotten to the point where even if we didn't have the

01:44:37.420 festival that we're planning and the compilation that we're coming out with, because yeah, we're

01:44:41.840 trying to get what you're talking about, Phil, that critical mass, enough people are clamoring

01:44:48.160 for it, like, Brian, where's the festival?

01:44:50.180 Come on, man.

01:44:50.960 So it's, hopefully, you know, that's the plan.

01:44:53.580 It's incremental.

01:44:54.400 It is gradual.

01:44:55.440 It is, it's never going to be like a civil war type of thing.

01:44:58.920 It's always going to be the gradual normalization.

01:45:05.360 And, you know, some of the terminology, just the terminology earlier, from the left to the

01:45:09.980 right, what we're trying to do is remove politics from it.

01:45:13.520 So you can, you can have any politics you like.

01:45:16.040 It's just leave that at the door.

01:45:17.760 And let's just, you know, listen to music.

01:45:19.800 Let's talk about our favorite books that we've, you know, read or even written, because there's

01:45:23.360 a lot of writers.

01:45:24.900 So that's, that's the, that's our goal is to make it nonpartisan again.

01:45:29.120 Yeah.

01:45:29.360 So that's something that I'm interested in hearing a little bit more about.

01:45:32.380 So when people think of goth, a lot of times they think it's, it's just music.

01:45:36.420 But, um, there's a lot of, of different types of art in the, in the goth kind of world, right?

01:45:43.320 So whether you're, whether you're talking about, you know, we were talking about imagery.

01:45:45.960 So you've got a lot of people that are photographers that, especially nowadays with, with, uh, you

01:45:51.400 know, using Photoshop to, to, you know, merge images and stuff that they can take, you know,

01:45:56.580 take the, the, the, the, um, cathedral in Cologne and put that in a picture that you took,

01:46:03.360 you know, in your backyard or what have you, um, or, or you're talking about, um, you know,

01:46:08.220 artists and, and stuff.

01:46:09.160 Do you think that there's, there's the kind of, of crossover from the music area into other

01:46:17.100 aspects?

01:46:17.520 Because I, I know that the goth stuff, especially when you're talking about imagery, um, it's

01:46:22.060 not, it's, I imagine, and I'm not a visual artist, but I imagine it's hard to inject the

01:46:27.760 politics into that kind of visual art and, and have it still live in the goth sphere.

01:46:34.860 You know, do you think that there's the same kind of crossover there?

01:46:37.540 Well, this, this has been something that has been quite ambiguous within the alternative

01:46:41.980 goth subculture for quite some time.

01:46:43.920 There was always this, this, uh, this misinterpretation that, uh, gothic does not equal goth.

01:46:50.100 Now this is, this is the kind of discussions that I'm, I'm open to heaven, right?

01:46:53.240 So some people would say that, yes, goth is a music-based, uh, subculture.

01:46:58.160 Me personally, I think it's the themes that inspired those goth bands.

01:47:03.620 That is what goth subculture is.

01:47:05.560 The bands just happen to be a big part of it.

01:47:07.580 It's not the part of it.

01:47:09.560 And, and, and my, my, um, my justification for that is, is the fact that goth basically,

01:47:16.340 for purists out there, goth basically lasted from like 1978, maybe with the scream by Susie

01:47:22.460 and the Banshees, maybe 1978, 17, and then ended when the Banshees broke up in 83.

01:47:27.620 83 is how early you would say that.

01:47:29.420 I mean, look, you had Killing Joke with Nighttime in 1985, and then they did live albums after

01:47:33.560 that.

01:47:33.940 I thought it was when, uh, Tones on Tail showed up in that Starburst commercial.

01:47:37.380 Yeah, they commercialized it.

01:47:39.500 Maybe.

01:47:40.220 I'm just talking about like the, the big, the big bands that were sort of creating the,

01:47:44.240 uh, the music at the time.

01:47:45.440 But, uh, yeah, there, there's, um, there is definitely a little bit of, and I would, I would

01:47:51.240 argue that there's no factual ending to this discussion whatsoever.

01:47:54.660 I think it really is just what's more important to you.

01:47:57.720 You know, some people will get into the goth, uh, well, people used to get into goth because

01:48:02.180 of the music and the music was like the biggest thing.

01:48:03.820 This was post-industrial, post-war England, right?

01:48:06.960 This, this was the most like rigid, artless wasteland.

01:48:11.580 And, uh, they did the best they could to sort of, you know, express themselves and, uh, uh,

01:48:16.720 escape that.

01:48:17.880 And at that time you had all these bands popping up, you know, popping up out of nowhere immediately

01:48:23.980 and then gone in a second.

01:48:25.660 And despite this, this, this, like, uh, this flash in the pan, these, these, uh, these kids

01:48:32.240 at the time were so hungry for this, you know, there were, there were just, and these days

01:48:36.340 there is almost no goth music presence whatsoever.

01:48:39.740 It is there, it is there, but it's no longer this, this, uh, you, this cultural statement,

01:48:46.180 this cultural movement that is, that is tangible and definable.

01:48:51.000 And, uh, so I think that in order for goth to continue, we have to acknowledge that there

01:48:56.560 are more gateways into it.

01:48:58.420 For example, through literature, which I actually spoke to, uh, Katie Troon about this.

01:49:02.560 She got into, she got into goth through, uh, literature and poetry.

01:49:06.060 That's how she get, that's how she got into that.

01:49:07.840 Not even the music.

01:49:08.520 She agrees with me that a lot of the music's not very fucking good, which I, you know,

01:49:12.060 there are some bangers, right?

01:49:13.340 The first, what is it, 1982, uh, pornography album by The Cure, fantastic album.

01:49:20.100 And 1981, Juju album by Susan Banshee's, fantastic album.

01:49:23.240 And then you have Music for the Masses by Depeche Mode, 1986.

01:49:27.620 Also very, very good.

01:49:29.120 Even Through the Looking Glass, uh, Susan the Banshee's, uh, cover album from 1987, I think

01:49:34.460 it was 87.

01:49:35.420 Also really great.

01:49:36.580 Um, but, you know, the, the music's kind of over.

01:49:41.060 So I, I think we should allow the fact, um, that the core themes still permeate.

01:49:46.920 Oh yeah.

01:49:47.380 And the core themes should be qualifier enough for people that gateway into the, the, the

01:49:51.960 goth subculture.

01:49:53.120 Industrial is not anything if not cinematic.

01:49:56.320 Like it basically is movie film and cinema was, you know, the inspirations for a lot

01:50:01.060 of the doors stuff and which inspired the original, uh, sort of gothic rock movement at the end

01:50:05.520 of the seventies.

01:50:06.700 Right.

01:50:07.240 This is undeniable.

01:50:08.260 Like cinema film, like literally it's all there.

01:50:11.200 Yeah.

01:50:11.560 I mean, talk about artists cross.

01:50:13.080 I mean, we were talking in the hotel when, uh, director Richard Stanley, I had on a space

01:50:18.460 couch.

01:50:18.740 That's unbelievable.

01:50:20.100 You had him.

01:50:20.660 But, um, have you ever seen the movie Hardware?

01:50:23.400 Um, it's, it's, it's an awesome cyberpunk movie, but like fields of the Nephilim, like

01:50:28.320 this legendary goth band.

01:50:29.500 It's just love those guys.

01:50:30.340 He's just, he's just like in it.

01:50:31.640 Like he just shows up.

01:50:33.020 And, um, so right.

01:50:34.740 It's this kind of indelible crossover because those are like the people you hung out with

01:50:39.400 if you were in the cool alt world and weren't, uh, you know, I had him on my show and politics

01:50:44.380 never came up.

01:50:45.240 And what was the other movie that guy made?

01:50:46.880 Oh, um, he's made a, uh, Colorado space.

01:50:49.580 Yeah.

01:50:49.720 That one.

01:50:50.120 The Lovecraft movie.

01:50:51.080 It's amazing.

01:50:51.720 And, um, uh, it was like a, sort of directed some scenes on the, uh, the island of Dr.

01:50:58.960 Moreau.

01:50:59.840 If you remember that one.

01:51:00.700 That sounds gothic.

01:51:01.280 I do remember that.

01:51:01.960 With Val Kilmer.

01:51:02.800 It wasn't very good.

01:51:04.020 No, rest in peace, Val.

01:51:05.360 All right.

01:51:05.760 We're going to go ahead and actually bring in some of the super chats that we've got here.

01:51:08.880 Oh, fantastic.

01:51:09.600 Um, so let's see.

01:51:10.920 We've got, uh.

01:51:11.800 We don't have that many.

01:51:13.260 Um, so I think we could just honestly read through the, through them all.

01:51:17.100 Okay.

01:51:17.680 So.

01:51:17.900 Great.

01:51:18.360 So, uh.

01:51:18.820 Unless there's someone that's saying some crazy, you know.

01:51:20.700 Yeah.

01:51:21.380 I, I, I'll, I'll make sure.

01:51:22.600 Yeah.

01:51:22.680 Okay.

01:51:23.400 Uh, Taylor Renz's ex, who's a.

01:51:25.740 Oh, hey.

01:51:27.220 There's no Taylor Renz's ex.

01:51:28.740 Um, she's great.

01:51:29.760 Uh, fan of Brian's going back to the gothsicle days.

01:51:32.980 Super excited for this one.

01:51:34.160 So she sends.

01:51:34.940 Aw.

01:51:35.940 That's super nice, man.

01:51:37.060 Let's see.

01:51:37.580 Um.

01:51:38.880 Our Not A Record says.

01:51:40.340 Oh.

01:51:40.900 Big up to Brian Jake and all the GACC crew.

01:51:43.520 Big up to Our Not A Records.

01:51:44.980 Shout out.

01:51:45.680 Um, let's see.

01:51:46.580 Terry Bogard says, uh, Terry Bogardo says, my Hot Topic at the time was a thrift store.

01:51:52.540 All I needed was five bucks to make my own individual look for a month.

01:51:56.280 Hot Topic was a poser store to me.

01:51:57.980 And that's, I mean, I think that that's something that a lot of, a lot of, like, people in the

01:52:02.200 underground kind of felt when, when you, when you first saw Hot Topic pop up, you were like,

01:52:06.700 what is this?

01:52:07.220 Yeah.

01:52:07.280 Corporate eyes, not touching that.

01:52:08.900 Yeah.

01:52:09.160 You know, it was, it was.

01:52:10.580 My, my, my entire outfit today is thrifted.

01:52:12.580 Okay.

01:52:12.960 Yeah.

01:52:13.520 This is all secondhand.

01:52:14.520 The jacket, the jacket even?

01:52:15.660 Yeah.

01:52:16.020 This is, this is a jacket from like 1989.

01:52:18.040 I found it all painted.

01:52:18.860 It's falling to pieces.

01:52:19.720 And then I got spikes off of Amazon and made the spikes myself.

01:52:22.440 Nice.

01:52:23.040 And these are even in, I'm curious, like in metal world, like when Hot Topic came up and

01:52:27.220 you know, you can buy like a mayhem shirt or something.

01:52:30.580 Like, that had, like, what is it, what was it like for you?

01:52:32.880 Like, I guess this is not cool anymore?

01:52:34.540 I mean, so for us, I was, by the, when Hot Topic started to, to go around, I was kind of,

01:52:40.680 I was like pushing 30.

01:52:42.060 So for me, it was like, well, I guess so.

01:52:43.980 You know, whatever.

01:52:44.700 I, I, I had lost the, the desire for the exclusivity that I had when I was a teenager.

01:52:50.620 Right.

01:52:50.940 Like, cause you, when I was a kid, when in the nineties, I was like, this is mine.

01:52:54.000 This is ours.

01:52:54.920 You guys can't take it.

01:52:56.380 You know, like we, we were very protective of it.

01:52:59.120 By the time I was kind of 30, I was like, well, you know, I guess this is all right.

01:53:02.000 You know, it didn't, I didn't find it so repulsive.

01:53:06.080 I was never like the kind of dude that would wear Hot Topic clothes.

01:53:09.060 I was never a dude that looked like I was all that punk rock.

01:53:11.520 I was very much just, I was, I grew up with Metallica.

01:53:14.280 So it was like.

01:53:15.040 Yeah.

01:53:15.180 You were the ripped skinny jeans.

01:53:16.320 Yeah.

01:53:16.480 Jeans, jeans and a t-shirt.

01:53:18.160 And that was what you wore.

01:53:19.480 Sometimes a t-shirt.

01:53:20.140 Have you seen his last shows?

01:53:22.260 Well, yeah, I had to do, I had to hit the gym before coming over.

01:53:25.260 I didn't want to feel too tired of myself.

01:53:26.900 Yeah.

01:53:27.040 We can't tell.

01:53:29.720 I'm sorry, Brian.

01:53:30.520 You look great, man.

01:53:31.380 But yeah.

01:53:31.760 So I heard you were going to be here.

01:53:33.720 Hot Topic thing.

01:53:34.620 They have a really, really, I didn't find it personally all that offensive.

01:53:38.380 In fact, one of the, I was in a, I used to be in a band called Shadows Fall and our guitar

01:53:41.980 player, John.

01:53:42.460 I found out last night that you made Shadows Fall.

01:53:45.200 That was from Shane.

01:53:45.800 Shane told me that.

01:53:46.340 Oh, really?

01:53:46.760 Yeah.

01:53:47.140 Yeah.

01:53:47.480 That's amazing.

01:53:48.040 I thought Brian Fair did it.

01:53:49.400 He, I mean, obviously he was the guy that, that everyone knew about because they got,

01:53:53.560 they got signed right after they got Brian.

01:53:55.000 But yeah, I was, I was on the Sombra Eyes to the Sky record and I, I remember I saw them,

01:54:00.760 they had another singer and I, right now his name escapes me and I feel bad about it.

01:54:06.280 And I'd been friends with Matt, the guitar player, because my old death metal band, Perpetual

01:54:11.060 Doom and his old band Exhumed, Exhumed Massachusetts because there was an Exhumed from California

01:54:15.580 at the time too.

01:54:17.520 We, we'd played a bunch of shows together and became buddies and I saw their band and I

01:54:20.580 was like, that's what I want to do.

01:54:22.100 And there's a lot of crossover between Shadows Fall, All That Remains, Killswitch Engage,

01:54:27.040 the bands that kind of came from that area.

01:54:28.820 I played in a band with, with Adam and, and Joel, um, band called Aftershock for a little

01:54:34.340 while before All That Remains got our start.

01:54:36.180 So there was a, there's a lot of that, uh, the incestuous stuff going on.

01:54:39.660 Actually, John Doné was in Aftershock before, before I played.

01:54:43.180 Well, I mean, all of you guys were, were, were, uh, culture defining.

01:54:46.700 It was a time to be alive.

01:54:48.360 It was cool, man.

01:54:49.160 Yeah.

01:54:49.420 It was like metal core just came out of fucking nowhere.

01:54:51.420 Yeah, it was.

01:54:52.340 Modern metal core came out of nowhere.

01:54:53.580 It was a lot of fun.

01:54:54.500 It was great.

01:54:55.380 But, um, let's see, uh, back to the super chats here.

01:54:59.240 Cullo, Cullo of Atlanta says, wokeness is inherently conformist, is a perfect message.

01:55:05.200 Brian Grobner is a god.

01:55:06.680 Check his music.

01:55:07.440 You might love it.

01:55:08.280 Aw.

01:55:08.400 Thought crime can go to hell.

01:55:11.200 Hell yeah.

01:55:12.280 I, I mean.

01:55:13.000 A lot of love for Brian today.

01:55:13.980 I, you gotta call it like you see it.

01:55:16.660 You know.

01:55:17.080 There you go.

01:55:17.760 Um, Goldilush says, hey, Phil, Lone Star here, formerly Darkest Hour.

01:55:23.260 Oh, what's up, man?

01:55:24.700 The, these reality denying communists are the reason I quit the music industry.

01:55:28.300 Look, I don't blame you.

01:55:29.380 You know, there's, there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of pressure if you, if you step

01:55:34.600 out of line.

01:55:35.100 I caught, there was a lot of people that I was, you know, friendly with.

01:55:38.380 And when I stepped out of line, they were publicly making the statements denouncing me.

01:55:43.400 And I'm like, they're, you know, dudes that like, when you were hanging out, you know, in

01:55:48.920 private before everybody had a smartphone in their pocket, before social media said some

01:55:52.760 of the most atrociously abhorrent things, made some of the jokes that you'd just be like,

01:55:57.340 whoa.

01:55:57.800 Nowadays, you know, they, if the word got out, they'd be canceled.

01:56:00.480 And then they're like sending emails and making public statements.

01:56:04.000 Phil shouldn't say this.

01:56:05.060 And I'm like, I know you, I know what you said.

01:56:08.480 I remember the things that you said.

01:56:10.780 So it's, uh, it's, it's, it was especially like early teens for the music industry, like

01:56:19.220 right around the Tumblr kind of spilling into the regular world.

01:56:22.940 It was rough.

01:56:23.900 There was a lot of sorting going on.

01:56:25.720 So, I mean, like the, the sort of woke movement that's, that's going on at the moment.

01:56:29.920 If you were on Tumblr back in 2015, this is nothing new.

01:56:33.280 Yeah.

01:56:33.460 This is like, this is like their manifesto.

01:56:36.020 It's kind of become Reddit now too, though, hasn't it?

01:56:37.800 Like that's.

01:56:37.960 Reddit, yeah.

01:56:38.580 I mean, Reddit was also, has been sort of radicalized by the same types of people, but

01:56:43.060 there was a very specific type of people that were on Tumblr.

01:56:46.780 Yeah.

01:56:46.960 And again, this is, nothing's new.

01:56:48.500 They've been talking about this for, for years.

01:56:50.120 Yeah.

01:56:50.400 I mean, I would say it's, it's the same idea, but it's kind of been put on creatine.

01:56:55.020 Like now you can lose your job or your home or.

01:56:58.180 Yeah.

01:56:58.340 You lose your, your livelihood.

01:56:59.480 They have to move to Knoxville, Tennessee.

01:57:01.220 Just random example.

01:57:03.460 Uh, Grim Reaper for Hire says, clearly there is an anomaly here.

01:57:07.920 Jake and Brian are in the same room.

01:57:09.700 Let's go.

01:57:10.640 Oh.

01:57:11.100 What's up, Grim Reaper?

01:57:12.020 He comes on my streams as well.

01:57:13.200 He's a good dude.

01:57:13.260 Oh, he's great.

01:57:13.840 Now he's a label mate.

01:57:14.900 Yeah.

01:57:15.180 He's a good dude.

01:57:16.280 Treadbull says, we need more Phil's metal cast.

01:57:18.740 Well, you know, we're here doing it.

01:57:20.140 Um, let's see.

01:57:22.700 Um, what is this?

01:57:24.760 Code, code of the Swiss, code of the Swiss says metal is for the strong, not the weak.

01:57:29.920 Left of leftism is self-imposed feebleness.

01:57:32.920 And I think that's something that we kind of covered a little.

01:57:34.840 Yeah.

01:57:35.080 That's what I was covering earlier.

01:57:36.040 Yeah.

01:57:36.160 The victimhood as a currency is something that's, you know, something that the left

01:57:41.660 has really made a, they made a profit with it definitely, but they've, they've also made

01:57:47.280 it, uh, making victimhood social currency where they're beyond.

01:57:52.580 Weaponizing it.

01:57:53.220 Yeah.

01:57:53.340 They can't be, can't be criticized.

01:57:54.600 The trauma economy.

01:57:55.960 Yeah.

01:57:56.700 I was just gonna, I couldn't fit, uh, leftism as self-imposed weakness on a shirt, so I

01:58:01.040 just shortened it to bad.

01:58:02.420 Yeah.

01:58:03.540 That makes sense for this song, don't you?

01:58:05.440 Uh, Culls of Atlanta says, Brian's band is gasoline invertebrate.

01:58:10.000 The movement he's part of is goths against cancel culture.

01:58:13.460 Also, who else misses the limelight NYC?

01:58:16.540 Uh, I never went to the limelight.

01:58:18.300 I was.

01:58:18.760 We got one in Belfast.

01:58:19.900 Oh, were you?

01:58:20.380 Oh.

01:58:20.540 Yeah.

01:58:21.220 I actually saw Trivium there.

01:58:22.580 Oh, okay.

01:58:23.200 Okay.

01:58:23.500 I played Slimelight in London a few times.

01:58:26.580 Oh, yeah.

01:58:26.900 That place is great, yeah.

01:58:27.800 Yeah, but, uh, Limelight NYC was legendary.

01:58:31.000 Yeah.

01:58:31.200 Oh, man.

01:58:31.760 I, I was fortunate enough to play the, uh, the original CBGBs, but, uh.

01:58:35.340 Whoa, cool.

01:58:36.760 I'm an old guy.

01:58:37.520 I'm an old guy.

01:58:38.320 Yeah, I'm Phil.

01:58:38.840 Um, actually, I think we've played twice.

01:58:40.980 But anyways, um, Peter Deleterious says, there's a sick punk band from Staten Island, New

01:58:47.760 York City called Gamma Ghouls, who were the only band in New York City to play during COVID

01:58:51.800 with zero restrictions.

01:58:52.940 Well, good for them.

01:58:53.900 Mm, shout out.

01:58:54.600 That's very punk.

01:58:55.200 Shout out.

01:58:55.960 Uh, let's see.

01:58:56.840 Call of Atlanta says, so Dark Force Fest just straight up cancels Brian.

01:59:00.080 Oh, yeah, that was the one.

01:59:00.540 He's too classy to name them.

01:59:02.140 I mean, classy, yes, but it was Dark Force Fest.

01:59:05.620 We all know this, and now it'll be, I'll be quiet and listen.

01:59:09.040 So now, uh, he's, he's blown them up.

01:59:11.640 Yeah, now that it's out there, Dark Force Fest, like, man, we were the darlings of that

01:59:16.060 stupid thing, like, a year prior.

01:59:18.100 Oh, fuck, man.

01:59:20.720 Every time I hear more about, like, what happened, my heart breaks, dude.

01:59:23.560 Oh, like, we wrote it, like, because the schtick for the Gossicles for a long time when we

01:59:27.600 got a big gig was to write a song about it.

01:59:29.260 It's like, Dark Force, like, that was a banger.

01:59:31.940 And, uh, sorry, yeah, uh, Dark Force people, people froke out when, when, uh, they found

01:59:37.560 out I joined Steven Seabolt's band.

01:59:39.500 We'll get a couple more.

01:59:40.100 Why don't we do some of these rumble rants here?

01:59:42.320 Um.

01:59:42.780 There's only a couple.

01:59:43.680 Yeah.

01:59:44.080 Uh, let's see.

01:59:45.300 Ray C 2020 says, did Jake find another gig in Des Moines since Lefties closed?

01:59:50.260 We're working on it.

01:59:51.400 That was, that sucked, man.

01:59:52.660 So we were playing, we had a tour booked out, and we got Lefties, and then they closed this

01:59:57.200 month, actually.

01:59:58.340 Yeah, that was, that sucked, man.

01:59:59.620 Um, we're currently working on it.

02:00:01.000 We're going to try our best to be exactly the same town, probably nearby.

02:00:04.280 Okay.

02:00:04.720 Yeah.

02:00:05.280 Quantum Cool says, F yeah for GACC.

02:00:08.560 I'm all here for it.

02:00:10.000 The goth scene in my home, Rochester, New York, was infected, but we will push back.

02:00:14.120 There's a bunch of us here.

02:00:15.120 They can't keep ruining our culture.

02:00:16.960 Hell yeah.

02:00:17.660 Good to hear.

02:00:18.240 Yeah.

02:00:18.440 Hell yeah.

02:00:19.580 Uh, Duffman says, I'm a Gen Z conservative, and I love metal, punk, etc.

02:00:24.000 I think it's because of the overwhelming amount of lefty activists that disincentivize people

02:00:28.260 from it.

02:00:28.600 Yeah, the gatekeeping is real, you know?

02:00:31.480 Well, yeah.

02:00:32.300 It's, the gatekeeping, it was there, but it literally just shifted gears.

02:00:36.100 It went from, like, name three songs to, like, name three, you know, liberal politicians.

02:00:40.480 Struggle sessions.

02:00:41.540 Yeah, yeah.

02:00:41.980 Name three genders.

02:00:43.040 Yeah.

02:00:44.440 Oh, that's the thing.

02:00:45.360 Oh, fuck.

02:00:46.220 You got me there.

02:00:47.560 You called Duffman.

02:00:48.280 Tomahawk says, woke commies have completely taken over hardcore, and I'm effing peed.

02:00:54.500 I assume that means pissed.

02:00:55.660 Oh, yeah.

02:00:56.240 Keep that hate in your heart.

02:00:57.540 You're going to need it.

02:00:58.340 Yeah.

02:00:58.660 I mean, look, I feel your pain, guys.

02:01:01.160 I still get it.

02:01:02.400 There'll be a lot of times where I'll post something on X about all that remains, and some hardcore kid or metal kid that's totally, you know, brain rotted with the...

02:01:14.340 The virus.

02:01:14.940 Yeah, the virus or the politically correct culture is spouting about how much I'm, whatever the buzzword of the day is.

02:01:22.160 Ha!

02:01:22.720 You know.

02:01:23.320 Let's see.

02:01:23.840 We got a couple more.

02:01:24.980 Let's see.

02:01:26.240 Dark Shadows says, as a 21-year-old Gen Z conservative musician, thank you guys for standing up for us.

02:01:32.060 All my friends feel like we're unheard in today's music scene.

02:01:35.000 That's, you're not unheard, you know, and there are bands and people out there.

02:01:39.620 A lot of bands try to avoid this kind of topic, and I don't blame them.

02:01:44.400 Like Jake was saying, the most popular goths on Instagram are people that don't ever touch this stuff, and that's, a lot of times, that's the smart thing to do, but just because you don't hear people that are affirming your opinions doesn't mean they're not out there.

02:01:59.520 So, keep that in mind.

02:02:01.340 Let's see.

02:02:02.800 Fire and Flesh Music says, we're a metal band from South Dakota.

02:02:05.240 F. Woke, support bands like us on Spotify.

02:02:07.540 Hell, yeah.

02:02:08.020 And then Schmidt1013 says, any love for Christ Analog on the panel?

02:02:14.060 Wow.

02:02:14.540 Shout out to Hate Department, Hot Take, MDFMK was way cooler than KMFDM.

02:02:23.000 That was the first show we ever played was with Christ Analogs.

02:02:26.340 Dude, that's so cool.

02:02:27.220 Awesome.

02:02:27.580 Good stuff.

02:02:28.180 That's awesome, man.

02:02:28.820 All right, we're going to wrap it up.

02:02:29.620 Jake, tell everyone where they can find you and what you got coming up.

02:02:32.340 Sure thing.

02:02:32.920 Well, you can find me on YouTube.

02:02:34.000 It's just my name, Jake Monroe.

02:02:35.060 If you want to find me on X, it's Behold Monroe.

02:02:39.340 And if you want to find me on Instagram, where I post clips of all of my YouTube videos, it is The Real Monroe.

02:02:46.160 And we have a tour coming up, my band, in the U.S. October 2026.

02:02:52.180 And hopefully I'll see you guys there.

02:02:54.560 Thank you so much for watching the podcast.

02:02:56.140 Brian?

02:02:58.240 When you do like various things, you have to do social media for all of them.

02:03:02.180 So I'm kind of all over the place.

02:03:03.180 But to sort of shorten it, Space Couch is the podcast, mostly on YouTube.

02:03:09.500 Liger Hawk Records is the record label that I run, mostly on Facebook.

02:03:13.080 That's my shirt.

02:03:13.680 That's the shirt.

02:03:15.280 Gasoline Invertebrate, NVRTBR8.

02:03:19.360 I had to shorten it because of the characters on X.

02:03:22.780 And Brian Graupner is my real name, so just put that in.

02:03:27.120 You should definitely consolidate to one.

02:03:29.220 I have one that promotes all that stuff.

02:03:32.380 Yeah, you're absolutely right.

02:03:34.160 I'll figure that out.

02:03:34.920 Let's do a link tree.

02:03:35.920 There you go.

02:03:36.720 It's inherently goth.

02:03:37.980 See, I had a link tree.

02:03:38.860 Brian makes sure you're hard to find out there.

02:03:41.040 But I had all these side projects that I had to...

02:03:43.720 Brian's keeping it underground.

02:03:45.340 Yeah.

02:03:46.340 You have to look.

02:03:46.920 You have to really want it.

02:03:47.880 Yeah, that's...

02:03:49.260 I'm totally meant to do it that way.

02:03:51.480 Awesome.

02:03:52.740 And yeah, I'm Phil That Remains.

02:03:55.040 I'm Phil That Remains on Twix.

02:03:56.440 The band is All That Remains.

02:03:57.340 You can check out All That Remains on Apple Music, Amazon Music.

02:03:59.220 Pandora, Spotify, YouTube, and Deezer.

02:04:02.160 All That Remains has got a big thing coming out with Rocksmith.

02:04:07.620 This weekend, the 5th through the 7th, you can play two songs from our most recent release.

02:04:12.120 You can play Divine and let you go on Rocksmith for free.

02:04:15.420 And keep an eye out for more of that stuff.

02:04:17.340 We will be back here tonight with the imposter goth, Milo Yiannopoulos.

02:04:23.280 That was amazing.

02:04:23.580 And George Santos will be here.

02:04:25.880 So we will see you on IRL tonight.

02:04:29.220 What's up?

02:04:30.540 I will see you on IRL tonight.

02:04:31.860 Let's see you on class.

02:04:32.620 Here we go.

02:04:33.180 What's up?

02:04:34.160 This one?

02:04:35.320 This one?

02:04:36.220 That's where we are going to be.

02:04:37.640 With no other one why you have to go to the red, red, red?

02:04:38.700 6th,…!

02:04:39.440 It's״ of Antrim ?

02:04:40.040 You

The Culture War - Tim Pool - December 05, 2025

Woke Has INFECTED Goth, Punk, & Metal, MAGA Must Save the Arts w⧸ Phil Labonte, Jake Munro, & Brian Graupner

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