DEBATE： Who Is A Bigger Obstacle To Peace？ Israelis Or Palestinians？ Destiny vs Myron!
Episode Stats
Length
3 hours and 55 minutes
Words per Minute
229.91841
Hate Speech Sentences
673
Summary
In this episode, we will be discussing the conflict between destiny and mayron games and the question of whose side is the big obstacle to peace? Who's fault is it? and whose is it's fault?
Transcript
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i think we are should be live here on mind i know you're already live right destiny
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all right yo chat give me uh ones in the chat guys we're live everywhere give me ones if audio is
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good on my end i think i'm good on uh destiny's side which is good and ellie's side make sure i
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didn't uh have the mic too blown out but give me ones all right so we're good all right so for all
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you cry babies in the chat they were bro whatever dude i had to do audio engineering on three
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different platforms all right so shut up stop crying um anyway uh what's up guys welcome man
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hold on one sec ellie they're saying they can't hear you they can only hear me
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yeah i can hear you guys but they can't hear you the screen is not the tab is not muted
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hmm what the fuck let me try to figure out how to get this on my end because you guys can hear me
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are you using obs steven how do you have it where your audio is coming through
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yeah for some odd reason it's not coming through on here i don't know why
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yeah hold on one sec let me i'm gonna pre-intro screen on my end let me just
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all right can you guys hear me now yep y'all should be able to hear me okay i think the
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audience should be able to hear me too um let's see if we got uh you guys i think we're good
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uh chat give me ones if you guys can hear destiny now testing one two can am i heard hello hello
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hello i think they might be able to hear you bro i think we're good um let me see here though
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there i'm seeing ones someone said a double audio i don't know if it's coming for me though
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they might hear from your end destiny i don't know
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yeah i got uh yeah i got the obs no i'm screen sharing on obs uh bills
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okay they're saying you might have two tabs open destiny i don't know
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nope it can't be on my end because eli only hits me once right
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i only hear you once yeah i can hear you a little bit but i think i'm okay i mean
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uh all right audio is fine chat give me ones if everything's okay to the the fucking idiots uh that
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are crying in chat fuck them give me ones if the you guys can hear destiny ellie good and we could
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go ahead and have this goddamn debate give me ones if we're good i see ones mostly in chat so i think
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we're good bills can you tune into the the debate and let me know
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all right bro i appreciate that all right cool all right i think we're good i see mostly ones all
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right i'll get off thanks bills appreciate it bro apologize for that guy sorry um this um software
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that we're using i've never used it once before before so obviously i'm not set up for it but but i
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think we're good now cool no is there a way to make yourself a tad quieter like a little itty bitty
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bit yeah i can is that better yeah all right yeah yeah i turned myself down a bit
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okay perfect you're ready to go second time lucky yeah yeah i think we're good man this this uh
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riverside thing sucks no offense ellie no worries don't worry i didn't make it okay uh get started
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today i'm hosting a debate with political commentators stephen bonnell otherwise known
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as destiny and mayron games we're going to be discussing the israel-palestine conflict
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specifically on the question of whose side is the big obstacle to peace i think there's two parts of
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this debate uh there's the historical side looking at who started the conflict and let it become
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the size it is currently and there's also looking at the situation today and asking whose fault is it
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that there currently is no peace process uh mayron can we start with you who would you blame for lack
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of peace in israel-palestine conflict and in that question and this is very important can you define
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peace yeah i mean look both parties have had their issues with um you know coming to an agreement with
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peace you know i'd be lying if i sat here and just said it was only the israelis but i would argue that
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the israelis are have been far more uh counterproductive to the peace process um than the palestinians
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have been um they've been negotiating in bad faith since the beginning uh it was never about actually
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having peace it's been about having um you know basically colonization and taking over by any
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means necessary and feigning diplomacy in order to do that by themselves some more time um this has
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been going on since they first came in in the 1800s uh with you know starting with the peal commission
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working all the way up until the abraham of course so what we have going on now with their latest
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bombing of qatar everything they've done has been in bad faith uh and i can kind of go through each
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uh one of those but i don't know how do you want to do it if you want to do it around but that's my
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general overall synopsis of the situation every single deal has been in bad faith the israelis
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never wanted a two-state solution that's been sabotaged several times about benjamin nanyahu which
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i'll go into more detail um and um any type of effort for peace um has been sabotaged and or and or done
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in bad faith um to include all the way up until modern times it's been going on since the 30s
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and how how would you define peace is that two-state solution one state solution um it could
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be either or um you know i i understand the strengths and weaknesses of both um but giving
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the palestinians some type of um right to self-determination and real sovereignty versus
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the bs autonomy that they give them where they actually don't have any real freedom um i think
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that's the way to peace um recognizing them as um as equals which they don't uh israel is an apartheid
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state it's i think it's pretty clear now at this point that it is uh despite the fact that they
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claim that they have two million palestinians that live under their rule um these palestinians are not
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um treated the same and they're still they still face discrimination and racism even within israel as
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full-fledged citizens and that doesn't even account for the other millions of palestinians
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that live in the west bank and gaza that are being occupied uh steven do you want to answer the
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question as well um whose fault do you think is and and and what would you define as peace and then i guess
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what we can do is go back to history because maron said um they've been in bad faith since the
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beginning yeah yeah so we can um i mean yeah we can we can start i guess as early as we want um in the
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late 1800s and then come all the way to modern day sure the way that i would kind of characterize the
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the peace process between israel and the palestinians and i think the reason why it's so easy to read
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blame into either side if you want is because i would say that on a genuine level i don't believe there
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has ever been a time in history in in since at least the 1800s onwards where there has been a
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deal on the table where the palestinians are like this is what we would accept i don't think that's
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ever existed um it's never been clearly enunciated because the reality is is i don't think that they
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at least the leadership or people that have been involved in negotiations i don't think that they
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ever see any acceptable jewish state being there ever so whether that's um you know when they had the
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whole arab revolt in 36 in response to that peel commission white paper that said it might be
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possible that this land just has to be divided because we don't think that these people can
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live together whether we're talking about resolution 181 in 47 when the palestinians you know we say
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historically now oh well it's because jews had 46 of the land and the arabs only had this despite
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population whatever that didn't matter the reality was any percentage of the land would have been too
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much um whether we're talking a couple years later at lusanne where in 49 you know israel said well
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we'll take gaza and all the arabs and that'll be fine but that wasn't enough like there's nothing
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there was nothing on the table that would have been acceptable for the arab population and then
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going forward now with just the palestinians um it's hard to say over the past 20 years but up at
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least through arafat's death i don't think that there was ever a proposition on the table that the
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palestinians would have truly accepted because there are just a couple questions that are difficult
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to broach and the palestinians will never give a solid answer on it um the two one has to do with
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like holy relics uh like sites around especially jerusalem and the second has to do with um the
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right of return which is a hugely hotly contentious issue how many palestinians that are considered
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refugees right now should be allowed to live back in israel proper despite regardless of the
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one state or two state or whatever um i think that the reason why sometimes you can read different
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things into this historically is because while israel um at times in their history have tried to
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reach an agreement with the palestinian people israel is also happy to see no agreement materialized
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because the longer the conflict goes on the more israel can kind of push to take more territory
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on their own um whether that includes you know the occupation of gaza and the west bank in 67
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um whether that includes when they were kind of extending their their borders past what the
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resolution 181 and 47 would have allowed for in 48 after the war um or whether that would include
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uh the you know today where they're continuing to move more and more settlements into the west bank
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i think that israel is happy to see a divided palestinian people that aren't capable of negotiating for some
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coherent and uh state and that's a part of there's no more violence that's a part of what i mean when
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i say that they're they're not negotiating good peace and they're doing they're not negotiating good
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faith they're doing everything they can to keep things fractured and create problems but i mean
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keep going i don't want to interrupt you as you're going giving your snuffs yeah i mean i i agree i think
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that i think that they will do what they can to kind of keep things fractured but but the palestinians
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i believe will as well because at the end of the day i don't think either of these people
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um really want to see a final settlement to their issues because both of them will um but both of
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them think they can get more than they could if they were to actually do some kind of peace agreement
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okay what would you say that the arabs just a quick one would you say that the arabs have ever
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negotiated in good faith or no yeah i don't like say sorry no no go ahead i think he was asking you
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that that's it yeah i don't like to say when you say the arabs particularly do you mean
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palestinian leadership or oh you could talk about palestinian leadership also neighboring arab states
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neighboring arab states i think definitely from what i'm aware of historically i think of generally
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always negotiated in good faith if there's a negotiation to be had there's a negotiation to
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be had but i mean the reason why is because by the time you're at the negotiating level like you're
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already paying big political consequences um sadat being willing to go to fuck to go to the
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knesset in jerusalem or to negotiate with israel already you know put egypt on the chopping block they
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got what 10 year removal i think from the arab league so by the time you're ready to negotiate
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with israel like you're already making big political concessions well rightfully so rightfully so because
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the 1978 uh you know cam david accords were scam okay let me go through if um yeah so i'm gonna go
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through every single one of these uh peace agreements and explain why they were bs okay i'm gonna i'm gonna
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go from 1937 and work my way all the way through i i don't it might take me a little bit of time
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destiny how do you want me to do it do you want me to do it each one just go yeah let's just go one by one
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time i guess okay let's go one at a time so let's start with 1937 right with the peel commission
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so with the peel commission um basically the israelis were going to get 20 percent of
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palestinian land which was you know most of the coastline and most of fertile agricultural land
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and we're going to see a trend here where when the israelis negotiate with the palestinians uh well
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before it became a state of israel but the zionists uh the colonists um it was never really a good faith
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that what it was was they were trying to get the best land and the best most fertile land where
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they would basically be able to uh you know control the farming um can we real quick on that
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yeah um so my understanding is that most of the fertile land would be kind of like west bankish
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area um and then the rest of what would have been given to israel at least in resolution 181 which i
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think mapped pretty closely on i'm talking about peel right now yeah but i think 181 i think kind of
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mapped onto the what the white paper in 36 37 said but but most of that was like negev desert and there
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was some fertile land but that land was only fertile because jews had come in and had like
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hardcore put a ton of effort into working that land to make it fertile like it wasn't originally
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no the palestinians had it first it was labor unions right it was israeli labor unions that took
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that from them that they they had cultivated and then the israel and then what happened was the
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israelis came in they kicked them out and then they created these labor unions where palestinians
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couldn't sell their merchandise they couldn't do business with them and they brought in these unions and
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this is back in in the 20s this has been going on so the appeal commission so okay so first they come
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in right the the zionists come in they come in and they colonize right the palestinians bring them in
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and they allow them to come in as they come in right and uh you know these are refugees etc they
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welcome them in and then they start to realize like okay these people are starting to take more
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and more land they're starting to get more violent what's going on here and then these labor unions
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start popping up and they start taking the land and then they start basically kicking them off their
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land of the of this uh you know this fruitful land that they had already cultivated um well here
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well so well okay yeah hold on and this has been going and this has been going on for a while the
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the the name of the organization was called the histrodot which was basically jewish labor unions that
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pushed the palestinians out and so i think in terms of in terms of pushing people out the um there
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were two organizations that were created for the zionist it was like the jewish agency and then the
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other one i remember but the reason why they got kicked out the palestinians did is because they bought
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this land from from prior owners uh originally i think part of the ottoman empire and then i think
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afterwards um but there were huge swaths of land owners who were they were absent owners but then
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once the um jewish organization would buy the land so they just took the land jewish people well they
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bought it of the absent of the absent did they do it legally no so a lot of the a lot of the people
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were absentees and then the people and then when they did buy the land and this is bad like once we
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start getting into 1948 now 1937 it was even less in 1948 they only owned about six percent of the land
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that they purchased that they purchased sure that's what i'm trying to stay let me stick with
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the peel let's stick with peel real quick right let's stick with well wait wait there's like a
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ton of claims that just got made so i just did see those and we can go through the pill commission
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report if you want but like the the land that was taken there was no mass uh exportation of
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agricultural goods from um from the mandatory palestine area right all of the farmers that existed
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that were palestinian did subsistence farming they just farmed enough to feed their family
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when jewish people came in they're the ones that uh you know brought huge swaths of agricultural
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i guess like uh fertilization to a lot of this land that's why there's a lot of fighting over
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um is it the galilee or whatever the the sea to the northeast or whatever to route water and stuff
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yeah um they had to fight with syria and i think in the 60s they fought like a big uh water war
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basically over diverting water but this the that land was nowhere near as fertile or it wasn't really
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you know used much at all until the jews came in and started working that land and then started to
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like make it more agricultural yeah but they stole it the point is is that they didn't steal it
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they bought it they bought it they did not buy it the majority of they okay when we get into the
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1947 partition plan they had or they had only owned about six percent of land in 1947 so i'm talking
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about 1937 so they didn't own anything they owned very little of the land that's why they didn't
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accept the 1947 deal in the first place but let me hit let me hit the commission we had it because
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it's important they didn't steal it they bought it when you say they own six percent of the land for
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that's what they purchased that's what they purchased own six percent that i know the number you're
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talking about but that's just like where people lived right no no that's what they bought that's
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what they actually owned and bought fair and square the rest they stole no so which part do they steal
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what are you referring to okay let me let me start with the peel commission first so here's the problem
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with the peel commission right so it was in 1937 the the thing that people need to understand right if
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i'm going to be very nice and simple about this the peel commission was basically a veneer right that
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your boy ben-gurion utilized to legitimize them beginning the colonization process so it started with
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20 now how do we know this ben-gurion himself wrote letters to his son admitting back in october
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of 1937 that they were going to start doing these uh exercises this diplomacy but the goal from the
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beginning was always to take the entire land and that's irrefutable this is his own letters to his
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son so they feigned diplomacy in the beginning with the peel commission and then they continued it on
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through the 1947 partition plan the camp david accords and it continued on throughout the entire time
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oslo accords and we could go through all of it but the peel commission was the beginning of the lie
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where they would start to go ahead and start to take the land aggressively it was the plan from the
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beginning so everything was feigning diplomacy and that's assuming that's assuming that we're even
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that and this is me saying this is me coming into it saying like okay they're having a fair ground
00:24:43.080
where they can even negotiate keep in mind that they had been displacing palestinians they had been
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killing palestinians they had been doing a whole bunch of bs prior to the peel commission and then the
00:24:51.340
partition plan they've been doing a bunch of bs with that too as well prior prior to that the two
00:24:55.460
are kind of connected but i'll let you respond what is what is your impression of like where the peel
00:24:59.920
commission came from or why did the peel commission happen i guess it was to get international recognition
00:25:06.080
and get their foot through the door to be taken seriously as a as another entity so that they can
00:25:10.400
start um creating right this is this was the birth of the urgun the haganaw and the stern gang this was
00:25:16.060
the beginning of israeli terrorism at this point because the peel commission legitimized these illegal
00:25:20.700
colonizers um okay so the um since the fall of the ottoman empire the british owned they like they
00:25:28.760
moved to this mandatory system the brits and the um french people to kind of create to carve out a lot
00:25:34.480
of these different territories in the middle east so that after some period of time uh an emerging
00:25:39.000
government could take over these lands where they weren't doing all of these colonization projects
00:25:42.380
anymore right so obviously in the um in the mandatory palestine territory there were a lot of issues
00:25:49.160
issues with with violence that was escalating on on both sides right i think the one of the more
00:25:54.140
notable ones uh like i know jews were fighting against arabs but there were also arab uh massacres
00:25:58.800
against jews like i think the haran massacre and i think i want to say 29 um yeah it was a big one
00:26:03.260
spoken about yeah so so there's a lot of violence back and forth i think that initially the idea is
00:26:08.240
that both of these people can live together they'll figure their shit out it'll be okay and the notable
00:26:11.980
thing so the the appeal commission was a royal commission by the british government um that was headed
00:26:18.600
by lord peel and the goal was to do a survey of the land a survey of the people and figure out like
00:26:23.140
how do we get these people to work together like let's like let's account for everybody who's here
00:26:26.420
what's going on like you know what can we do and i think the pill commission was notable because for
00:26:30.080
the first time uh the recommendation was these two people probably can't coexist in the same state
00:26:35.720
um and that was a big deal at the time because nobody considered up to that point that it was going
00:26:39.620
to have to be two separate countries now that wasn't how any of the mandatory period worked but this
00:26:43.660
was at the behest of the british this wasn't like a jewish plan sure um yeah now now i don't dispute
00:26:48.440
i agree with you destiny that i i believe also that the brits came in um in good faith because
00:26:53.600
they knew at some point that they were probably going to need to uh figure out some kind of plan
00:26:56.960
to get rid of this land and do it in a in a peaceful manner what i'm saying is that these the
00:27:01.620
zionists and would later become israel did not approach this in good faith they came with it
00:27:06.740
precisely for what i said before to hey look international community we're doing diplomacy we want to work with
00:27:12.520
the arabs but the plan from the beginning this is from ben-gurion himself the plan from the beginning
00:27:17.300
was always always to take the land in full just do it yeah but i mean like that so so you can't go
00:27:23.720
that's so that's that's that's sabotaging peace they never wanted peace same thing with the
00:27:28.300
palestinians though well okay well realistically speaking it was their land from the beginning
00:27:32.680
you got a bunch of colonizers from eastern europe yeah we can make the excuse for it but i'm just saying
00:27:36.600
that like that neither side the difference is neither side really wants peace but the jewish people
00:27:41.740
whether it's because of a european background or whatever we're a little bit better at politics
00:27:45.220
but if the arabs would have confronted the jews and said fine we accept this partition plan we
00:27:49.600
accept these borders the jews would have had to accept okay now we're getting into 1947 okay we can go
00:27:54.320
okay so i think we're done with peel you know your positions your position but also wait one more
00:27:58.220
other one more go ahead that all of the arabs that were kicked off of the land were kicked off by
00:28:03.780
jews that had purchased that land i think it might have been mostly under the ottoman empire
00:28:07.980
no prior the back then and now we're getting into the partition plan so my position on peel is that
00:28:14.440
this is prior to 1920 like most like jews bought the land from by 1947 steven by 1947 they only owned
00:28:22.020
six percent of the land so they could not have owned more than that in 1937 or in the 20s yeah but
00:28:26.500
they owned even less owned by people cite that number but then you pretend that the palestinians
00:28:30.700
own 94 percent of the other land that's not true yeah they're indigenous to the land it was theirs
00:28:34.640
they were there before no they weren't there they weren't there all over the place right they had
00:28:38.260
like 10 12 or something like that i don't remember the exact numbers but people just didn't live all
00:28:42.320
over the vast majority of the negev was basically there were villages all over except for some bedwin
00:28:46.160
there were some villages but yes it's a but not like villages it was a village of subsistence
00:28:51.060
people who in mr palestine then nobody did the like you have to consider that that region that
00:28:57.920
levant existed it's kind of like a territory of the ottoman empire once the ottoman empire collapsed it was
00:29:01.860
the brits that came in and carved out and said initially it was a larger area that included
00:29:05.500
jordan as well um and then they chopped off that and that became the british mandatory um the british
00:29:11.220
mandatory state of palestine basically yes and look there's like six percent was in i think occupied
00:29:15.720
by jews i want to say like 12 or 15 percent of something was occupied by arabs and then the rest
00:29:18.920
is basically the palestinians look so the the brits are absolutely messed up here by you know
00:29:24.120
basically they made promises to both sides they had the baffer declaration on one side
00:29:28.280
for you know the the zionist theodore hertzel and them and then you had on the other side he was they
00:29:33.760
were promising hey look if you help us fight in this war uh ottoman we will go ahead and we'll get
00:29:39.180
you your own land and that's what the the arabs thought okay the brits are going to stand by what
00:29:42.860
they said but that so the peel so going back to 1937 the peel commission my my position is simply this
00:29:50.140
just to summarize ben gurian the chief negotiator the the head zionist here but who would later become the
00:29:55.040
prime minister of israel the first prime minister he negotiated bad faith this is proven by letters
00:29:59.460
that he wrote to his son in october 5th of 1937 admitting that the goal was just to uh enter the
00:30:05.420
negotiations that the brits had set up with the peel commission to give them legitimacy as uh as
00:30:09.960
going from violent colonizers to a potential um agreement where they could be taken seriously
00:30:15.420
politically and he used that we have to do this he used that hold on let me finish let me finish my
00:30:19.740
my thing this i'm just giving you my my summary on peel commission then you can give yours then we'll go
00:30:23.000
to 1947 so he he entered the deal right or he entered the agreements with the palestinians
00:30:28.840
with the ideology of we are going to expand we don't care about what they really want to do we're
00:30:33.280
just going to go and accept this where it's 20 but we're going to get all the fertile land we're going
00:30:36.340
to get all the coastline and um we're going to get we're going to continue doing what we're doing
00:30:40.520
we're going to keep using our labor unions we're going to push them out uh we're going to keep
00:30:43.580
kicking them out as much as we can and then uh you know revisit this later which they always use that to
00:30:47.980
their advantage so my argument with the peel commission is they used the brits the peel
00:30:53.040
commission to create the veneer of legitimacy but the whole time and we know this from bingarine's
00:30:57.360
letters it was feigning diplomacy to take over and create the entire state of israel and take all the
00:31:03.100
land yeah okay that's like negotiating in bad faith or feigning diplomacy doesn't make sense both
00:31:07.760
sides wanted more uh like both sides would have agreed to whatever they agreed to like again if the
00:31:13.100
jews would have agreed to some like hardcore ironed out borders or some state then that would have been the
00:31:17.440
state they would have had but i mean like it's weird to say they're negotiating in bad faith when
00:31:21.260
they're hoping to get more in the future unless we can say they were negotiating bad faith and we
00:31:25.280
know they would have like betrayed the terms in the future number one so negotiating bad faith is a
00:31:29.140
weird phrase to use there and then two this bill commission this was just a uh this was just like
00:31:33.320
an evaluation of the land a survey done um at the behest of the british government by you know headed
00:31:38.540
by lord peel the idea this wasn't like a formal agreement this wasn't like a formal treaty that either
00:31:43.240
side necessarily like agreed or disagreed with it was just his evaluation of or that that commission's
00:31:48.360
evaluation of you know what is the status of these two people so like at the time like jews would have
00:31:54.000
been happy to carve any state out i think because then they would have had at least something solid
00:31:57.380
you know some kind of solid borders and palestinians probably wouldn't have wanted any jews there at all
00:32:01.560
or at the very least they definitely wouldn't want a jewish state there so i mean like you can say
00:32:05.140
that the jews were negotiating bad faith but if we're going to use that definition then the
00:32:07.940
palestinians were quote-unquote negotiating bad faith although these weren't negotiations the bill
00:32:11.300
commission was under negotiation it was just a survey of the land but neither side well at the
00:32:15.060
very least the jews would have been happy with some land there the palestinians didn't want any jews
00:32:18.480
there at all or at least a jewish state well the problem is that the the jews wanted 20 percent
00:32:23.120
of the most fertile land best land and they were the minority and then on top of that it's not their
00:32:28.720
land in the first place to dictate like if someone comes into your house it tells you hey i'm taking
00:32:32.980
a master bedroom hey it's a small part of the house though but i'm taking a master bedroom after you let
00:32:36.860
them in you're going to feel some type of way about that and the reality is it wasn't it was there were the
00:32:40.560
minority and they wanted the best it was their land it was it was the british we got no but they
00:32:45.840
were they were there they're the indigenous people they're not indigenous at all they were part of
00:32:49.920
prior caliphates that had conquered through imperialism that area but the land was owned
00:32:53.420
by the brits it was it was the man it was the british mandatory for we we have we have eastern
00:32:57.800
europeans literally from like russia ukraine etc that's what a lot of these zionists were they were
00:33:01.920
all majority eastern european coming into land that they have no ties to uh from a bloodline anything
00:33:07.220
like that coming in saying like we're gonna settle and colonize obviously the people that were there
00:33:11.860
for that were there originally are going to feel some type of way and then on top of that they
00:33:15.640
wanted 20 and they wanted the best land so again people felt some type of way and i agree with you
00:33:20.020
they did feel some type of way for sure and they felt like they had they well well you could say that
00:33:24.060
but again all of the land that was taken prior to 36 was purchased by jewish it was not purchasers of
00:33:29.180
land it was it was stolen no land that was conquered no there was no stolen land it was all purchased
00:33:32.760
from prior owners steven didn't didn't the jewish london didn't the zionists go over and buy the
00:33:37.800
jewish uh buy land from uh landowners absentee landowners no even with the even with the absentee
00:33:45.220
landowners that's what i'm trying to explain to you guys now we can go to 1947 or 1947 partition
00:33:49.700
plan we talked about the peel commission fine now we're going to get into the partition plan
00:33:53.220
the partition plan that deal was insane how can we move on from this i don't know jews conquered land
00:34:00.180
they didn't even have like a military army or anything that no jews conquered land from arabs
00:34:03.440
prior to the peel commission no it just didn't happen no the peel commission gave them the
00:34:08.180
legitimacy to start creating their own paramilitary forces that's what i'm saying the peel commission
00:34:12.680
gave them the legitimacy right so that they could go ahead and create these organizations
00:34:17.000
prior to 36 they bought land from prior landowners there were there was no jewish conquering okay no i
00:34:23.780
don't know how because even in the peel commission doesn't say that they and even if they
00:34:27.460
land i'm not even if they did buy the land i'm telling you by 1947 they only owned about six
00:34:32.260
percent of the land that is why no that's why the and this is a big point this is precisely why the
00:34:38.080
palestinians rejected the 1947 partition plan because on top of that they had been killing people
00:34:42.900
they'd been stealing land the peel commission was a lie we knew that and then on top of that they
00:34:47.940
were the minority but they wanted 56 percent of the land and not so notice how the peel commission
00:34:52.240
went from 20 to 56 percent well yeah yeah there's a hard we can agree to disagree if we want on this
00:34:57.080
point but it's like a hard that's fine like before we get to the the the split on for resolution when
00:35:01.740
i won the the land like in the peel commission itself right um just reading from the text chapter
00:35:07.040
four the disturbances of 1936 so from 36 to 39 there were massive air revolts but like one of the
00:35:11.420
reasons that they um list is is number five under chapter four they say arab alarm at the continued
00:35:16.980
jewish purchase of land there was no conquering of land if you read uh you know more into chapter
00:35:22.720
five many arab land owners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the
00:35:26.740
purchase money the fellaheen are better off on the whole uh than they were in 1920 the arab progress
00:35:30.960
and partly due to the import of jewish capital into palestine and other factors associated with the
00:35:33.980
growth of the national home that's for many jewish people like there was no conquering of land prior to
00:35:37.820
this or if there is i've never seen a source on that ever unless you just consider jewish people
00:35:41.600
buying land and then kicking off the arabs once they bought it uh as conquering but there was no
00:35:46.540
conquering of land and i'm i'm telling you bro they they were conquering the land that's why they
00:35:52.060
were able to go ahead that's why that this is why the this is the basis as to why the palestinians
00:35:56.580
rejected all these peace deals is because or these negotiations that the israelis gave in because
00:36:01.740
number one they didn't negotiate in bad faith a lot of the time they were the minorities and then they
00:36:05.180
wanted all the best land so how does it like and the way i simply explain it right to the people here
00:36:10.660
that might not be as well versed in in this conflict you know let's imagine that you have a home you allow
00:36:15.860
people to come into your home right because they're coming in and they're poor and they need money
00:36:19.400
whatever it may be hold on hold on hold on let me just finish yeah they absolutely did they welcomed
00:36:23.180
them they were welcome they bought the land since the 1800s they had let them come in and and live
00:36:28.940
alongside them and they work alongside then as they started to colonize more and more they realized oh
00:36:32.920
these people are here to actually take the land and kick us out that's the original late the
00:36:37.380
original zionists that moved there were part of a labor zionist movement they would never work
00:36:40.660
alongside arabs the entire point was that they had to there's a saying for this in june yes
00:36:44.580
to your fucking speaker whatever yes about like working the land that they own so they would
00:36:47.460
never be working and living alongside arabs once they bought the land they expelled the arabs from
00:36:50.960
the land no and that's the point a lot of the times they did not buy the land and then on top of
00:36:55.160
that they put these labor unions which i literally said earlier right where they would push the
00:36:59.960
palestinians out and not let them sell their produce or only do jewish labor where they would
00:37:04.580
only deal do business with each other so they push these guys out that's what i'm trying to say
00:37:08.200
this is why the peel commission was a bunch of bs and these and literally these um these jewish labor unions
00:37:13.200
have been doing this for a very long time so of course the palestinians are going to be like
00:37:16.340
we're not going to accept anything with you guys because you guys are coming in and stealing our
00:37:19.240
land you guys are pushing out of us we can move to the next point all right let's go to 47
00:37:23.180
wait wait just real quick i'm just going to ask for one thing i don't do this just generally
00:37:26.740
debates but i'm just curious sure okay and if you don't have it on hand that's fine like what is
00:37:30.320
our source here for like jews stealing the land like if we had to think of like one because i mean
00:37:35.180
the pill commission itself doesn't refer to this i don't think any of the prior white papers because i think
00:37:38.160
there were five or six part of those oh you're like oh you're googling you're using ai right now
00:37:42.260
okay no hands up right now i'm not using ai the only thing i have on my screen right now is the
00:37:50.960
text of the peel commission refer to to make sure that i'm not missing anything in there
00:37:53.960
sure okay you keep referring to jews buying stuff and stealing and kicking arabs off that's not true
00:37:59.260
if you wanted to make the argument that there was some illegitimate purchase of land the only thing
00:38:02.560
i could possibly think of was that in the ottoman empire but this also contradicts your other claim of
00:38:05.720
the arabs allowed the jews to live next to them that's not true they brought them in as guests
00:38:09.860
no they didn't because the ottoman empire actually explicitly forbade the purchase
00:38:13.960
of land by jews in the ottoman empire so if you wanted to make the argument of illegitimate land
00:38:18.920
purchases sometimes jewish foreign companies would have to create shell companies to buy
00:38:22.640
this land from absent arab land owners and then do it that way because the ottoman empire wouldn't
00:38:26.900
actually allow jews to purchase the land before the collapse of the ottoman empire in 1917
00:38:30.040
that's why i know that claim can't possibly be true they absolutely didn't welcome them in
00:38:33.120
number one number two there was back and forth what's your source for that that the ottoman
00:38:37.360
empire didn't allow the purchase no not for you i'm asking maron yeah maron what's your source
00:38:41.040
yeah i'm just curious with this yes i'm talking about okay they had no forces they had no arms
00:38:45.280
there's no way they could have fought and conquered land from the arabs if you look at the partition plan
00:38:49.160
the big reason the arabs declared that while the palestinians declined the partition plan
00:38:54.360
is because the israelis only legally owned six percent of the land so if they only legally owned
00:39:00.000
six percent of the land that they purchased how the hell are they going to have all this land prior
00:39:03.920
in 1937 or 1920s just work our way back chronologically 1947 how much land they reject
00:39:09.440
the partition plan the majority they owned it it's theirs it's not theirs it was british it was the
00:39:14.960
british palestine it was the british mandate for palestine it wasn't theirs at all what do you mean
00:39:18.800
who would they have owned their palestinians british mandate for palestine most of it was empty
00:39:23.400
there but most of it was empty oh my god do you think that negev desert even today you can go to
00:39:27.720
the negev it's not full of people that live there you got like of course tribes you've got like like
00:39:31.720
most people do not live there but but it's theirs is my point it's their land whether there is no it
00:39:35.960
wasn't it was the ottoman empire's land what do you mean and then it was conquered by the brits
00:39:39.560
and the ottoman empires are what arabs yeah and they lost the war and their whole empire collapsed
00:39:45.000
and then the brits had it but it said mandatory british palestine
00:39:47.720
empire is technically headed by turks to be clear whatever say what arabs whatever the
00:39:52.280
middle eastern people turks a lot of turks speak arabic the point i'm trying to make here is this
00:39:56.520
it's very simple they only owned it we know this for a fact that this is why they rejected the
00:40:01.240
partition plan they owned six percent of the land back in 1947 so there is no way that they own
00:40:06.840
anything else the bottom line is this they were the minority so if they're the minority the big
00:40:11.880
minority why are the palestinians going to go ahead and concede to these individuals who are violent
00:40:16.520
colonists stealing their land killing them why would they agree to that and they had been
00:40:20.840
the reason why they agree is because because on the when they did the mandate we're skipping ahead
00:40:24.520
now to the the mandate yeah we'll yeah we'll go to the mandate yeah the reason why is because
00:40:29.080
marron do you have that i still want to know if you have that source
00:40:32.520
that's why they rejected the partition plan you can look it up this is precisely why they rejected the
00:40:36.680
partition plan is because they owned they wouldn't have accepted any jewish no no no no no no no no
00:40:42.120
no no they wouldn't have accepted any jewish state at all there was nothing acceptable there look
00:40:46.280
look look what i'm trying to explain to you guys okay is that there's a multitude of different
00:40:51.320
reasons because you guys have not been letting me go into why they rejected the partition plan
00:40:54.840
the seven percent is just one reason i can go through all the reasons that they rejected the
00:40:59.240
partition plan and rightfully so because it was a bullshit plan and on top of that the israelis
00:41:03.800
were conducting acts of violence and destroying villages all over the place they were raping the
00:41:07.320
women they're destroying the villages they were killing a whole bunch of people stealing land
00:41:11.400
like the urgun hagenah and the stern gang we had jewish terrorist organizations running a rampage all
00:41:17.000
across why the hell would they accept any type of deal with these guys they were destroying them and
00:41:20.920
killing them so they have every right to fight back and defend themselves and defend their villages
00:41:25.720
like this is indefensible on the israeli side and they were a minority of the or and they were a minority of
00:41:30.840
the um of the population in the area the only reason they had the weapons is because they illegally
00:41:35.720
smuggled them there from the united states thanks to organized crime this is the ugly side from the
00:41:40.120
u.s they absolutely from czechoslovakia they absolutely did not bring them from the u.s it
00:41:43.480
came from czechoslovakia number one um number two i mean like we just have a total disagreement on
00:41:47.640
the history the violence was was on both sides initially a lot of the violence came from the
00:41:51.640
arab side in response to the peel commission the huge arab revolts and everything um only intensified
00:41:56.680
after the peel commission recommended a partition and that's why the brits cracked down on jewish
00:42:00.840
immigration to the mandatory area i think at 39 or 40 they basically said they either severely
00:42:05.640
limited it or they said no more and that's why um the jews started to fight back from 40 to 44
00:42:09.720
where they started to do things that um i think this culminated in the uh king david hotel bombing
00:42:13.800
or whatever it was like one of the worst terror attacks um from the jews to the brits and then
00:42:17.000
the brits just fucked off because they were like fuck this this is a spot yeah and they also
00:42:20.200
assassinated another they assassinated a british diplomat uh british uh official as well when he
00:42:25.320
tried to you know figure out a plan the israelis conducted massive acts of terrorism before
00:42:30.040
they created their state everybody was conducting acts of terrorism in jerusalem the um the
00:42:34.200
palestinians i think murdered the um uh murdered the jordanian king when he was in jerusalem i think
00:42:38.600
at 48 or 49 um so i mean like everybody was doing their terrorism and fighting each other and
00:42:42.600
blowing each other up back then it wasn't like there was one peaceful side accepting everybody
00:42:45.160
well here's the here's the difference whenever israelis conduct terrorism no one cares no one
00:42:49.240
says anything but when arabs do it everybody cared back then hold on that's absolutely not true
00:42:53.640
uh the curb on israeli immigration was one of the biggest reasons why or not on israeli
00:42:58.280
i'm sorry jewish immigration was one of the reasons why the jews got so ass pained in 1940 okay
00:43:02.040
because the brits they felt it as a betrayal of their promise plus there was the ongoing holocaust
00:43:05.880
and there were ships being turned back full of jews that like weren't allowed to go to where they
00:43:09.880
thought they previously had as per the about for a declaration the ability to send their jewish
00:43:13.800
people too so the brits absolutely most americans most people in the west and most americans are
00:43:18.760
completely unaware of who the ergon is who the stern gang is they're completely unaware of these uh
00:43:23.800
terrorists yeah that's 48 but well the thing yeah it rebranded its idf which is conducting
00:43:30.600
terrorism right now as we speak that they literally just didn't rebrand into the idf they
00:43:34.120
were disbanded and then they were and they rebranded military haggadah stern they all combined
00:43:39.080
and rebranded and became the idea hagana like literally set fire to and laid siege to the irgun
00:43:44.680
um when when when menekhenbegin came back into israel from the mediterranean that's fine but uh
00:43:50.920
ben gurih stood on the shore and he watched as the hagana literally blew this ship up that they were
00:43:55.880
coming to shore in and started arresting people from the irgun because they didn't want to be
00:43:59.560
associated with them when they when the state of israel was formally properly uh made and then
00:44:03.480
the hagana eventually reformed to the idf but like yeah they disavowed and they fought with a lot of
00:44:07.080
radical elements yeah of course but they stephen ergun and lehi did to join a hagana in yeah they
00:44:12.760
did they all joined they kind of did but the hagana was by far the larger you're you're taking one
00:44:17.160
isolated incident it was like 20 000 plus strong wasn't it and the irgun and the lehi combined had like
00:44:21.480
what like wasn't it like less than two thousand or less than a thousand regardless the point i'm trying
00:44:25.160
to make here like you're taking one isolated incident to try to dispute the fact that they
00:44:28.600
all combined they did combine they did they're all terrorist organizations and they rebranded to
00:44:33.640
become the idf yes they're going in the lehi formed in response to arab terrorism and arab
00:44:37.880
violence as well that was the reason why these organizations formed was because they they felt
00:44:41.720
especially um post-29 after the haran massacre they felt like they were being attacked by uh arab
00:44:46.360
extremists constantly and that's why these these paramilitary organizations because they were
00:44:49.320
stealing land initially they were stealing land they were killing people they were colonizing
00:44:54.520
they're like dude it's the the reality is is that the state of israel was created through the
00:45:00.440
very terrorism that it tries to condemn every single day but let me go into the 47 perdition
00:45:04.520
plan real quick right so um so european jews started colonizing uh obviously for decades already
00:45:12.200
they banned palestinians from land and labor markets we talked about that earlier
00:45:15.720
um they uh promote exclusive hebrew labor evicted palestinians from land and farms that were
00:45:21.080
fruitful um this is why they had the right to reject this partition plan because they had been
00:45:25.800
kicking them out for before since like i talked about with the peel commission that that's another
00:45:29.560
reason why they rejected it also um the partition plan was um which i think is 22 to 10 is what
00:45:36.040
you're saying 56 for under 33 of the population so at the time they wanted 56 of the land but
00:45:42.120
they were less than one third of the population right that doesn't make sense and they only owned
00:45:46.680
and they only owned it does they only legally owned six percent of the land does that sound
00:45:50.920
like a good deal to you if you're a palestinian you're gonna be like hell no legally owned when
00:45:53.960
you talk about legally owned what they purchased what they purchased that the arabs own the other 93
00:45:58.600
percent that's just not true right you can't source that there's no record of that because that's
00:46:01.960
absolutely not true number one number two when you say that they were going to be given 56 of the
00:46:05.000
land or whatever the division look at the ethnic division of who was to live on that split it was going to
00:46:09.880
be 55 jews and 45 arabs whereas on the arab split of the land it was like 99 arabs so yeah there were
00:46:16.440
a few percentage points more given to the the quote-unquote jewish government there but almost
00:46:20.200
half that population was going to be uh arably ethnically arab people number one number two
00:46:24.760
yeah a huge chunk of that land was the entire negev which was like empty dead land that nothing was
00:46:28.920
even going on through anyway and that's what they wanted to give to the palestinians thank you for
00:46:32.520
saying that that was a part of what they were going to give me look at resolution 101 look at the
00:46:36.440
partition plan what the whole negev was going that was part of that 56 oh this guy's using ai in
00:46:40.920
google um here i could do that too what do you think i studied this whole issue for a year yeah okay
00:46:45.960
go look at the map go look at resolution 101 go look at the partition all the whole negev was going to
00:46:49.720
the jews and look at the look at the delineation between uh ethnicities that were living on both
00:46:53.640
parts of the partition you can see my type shit so here's the other thing too also that's that's
00:46:58.760
important because you didn't mention earlier that you said that the that arabs would live within the
00:47:02.920
with the uh amongst the jews yeah but they would have to be under their rule so yeah so they're the
00:47:08.360
minority of the people but they would be ruling everything why why would they want well they
00:47:12.280
wouldn't be ruling everything they'd rule their partition that they had 50 yes yes yes yes but
00:47:17.480
what i'm saying is i think it was like 16 districts or whatever and uh nine of them were arab dominated
00:47:22.520
and i think only one was israeli dominated uh or zionist dominated jewish dominated why would you
00:47:27.640
want to go ahead and live amongst people and they rule you and they're the minority
00:47:32.920
why why would you do that majority in the state that would have been carved out for them
00:47:36.840
yeah but why would you want jews to run you as an arab muslim when they're the minority why
00:47:42.280
i agree with you you wouldn't want that which is why my original claim is that palestinians would
00:47:47.240
have rejected everything correct there's no amount of partition that they would have accepted but that
00:47:51.560
goes to my argument there was never a peace plan every deal to them was a bad deal no but it's a
00:47:57.080
and that's what i'm trying to say the israelis no that's my position no no no no no no any deal
00:48:03.800
with no no no no no no no the deal every single deal that the jews brought forward was bad because
00:48:08.440
number one it was done in bad faith number two it was to extend the land it was never done oh yeah
00:48:12.920
let's actually have some kind of peace or anything like that and they always wanted the best land the
00:48:17.000
best fertilization areas not the waterways the best land is the west bank no no well we're going to get
00:48:21.480
into the west bank after this because the west bank is is that that's later on that's going to
00:48:25.240
come into 1967. we haven't even got it we haven't even got it to the west bank the west bank is
00:48:30.280
actually even worse because we haven't even got it to 1967 yet we're still on 1947. yeah but the
00:48:36.920
partition that you're talking about the eastern part of the partition would have been the west bank of
00:48:40.040
the of the river jordan it was but this land is i think it's way better it's way more fertile and
00:48:43.560
it looks better and everything too compared to the shit land that is the entirety of the negev which
00:48:47.160
is nothing i think it's still nothing and then compared to the your you have your coastal regions
00:48:51.000
right with um jaffa and halfa and kaffa and all that bullshit i don't know well they wanted
00:48:56.680
during the appeal commission they were fighting to take that that's what i'm trying to explain to
00:48:59.320
you bro like they always also would have there was fought to get the best land right most fertile
00:49:05.080
land and that's what a lot of this problem came from and they were the minority it was fertile was
00:49:08.120
only the land it was only fertile because they had made it such no no that's not true no it was for
00:49:13.800
it was why would if they were there first if the palestines were there first and how would if the land
00:49:19.800
was there if they were there first and the land was fertile right obviously they're going to want
00:49:24.440
to take it and be like oh i want this land now not fertile that was the whole point of labor
00:49:28.440
zionism it's why the first two alias failed fucking miserably the 1881 and 1901 the first ones that
00:49:32.760
came from the eastern russian empire or whatever is because the land sucked there was nothing there
00:49:37.240
most of the people that came just up and left afterwards because it was so
00:49:39.960
bullshit it wasn't until they had a ton of financial yeah it wasn't until they started stealing land
00:49:43.400
that's it that's precisely land the land sucked shit the land they were not exporting a lot of
00:49:47.880
shit the appeal commission found this every early white paper found this they were subsistence farmers
00:49:51.480
that lived throughout all of palestine and that's they just made enough of their family that's it
00:49:54.600
they weren't exporting crops to anybody else but the point i'm trying to make is it wasn't until they
00:49:58.520
started stealing land that proves my point even more with the aliyah with them coming in the 1800s
00:50:02.200
anything about them stealing land they haven't they bought it they purchased land
00:50:05.400
so all these massacres all these uh paramilitary organizations just existed for no reason the
00:50:10.120
irgun stern gang they were just hanging out in response to arab violence and understandably
00:50:15.800
the arab started to fight against the jews that were buying land and moving there but that's where
00:50:18.440
the lehi and the irgun formed was in response to a lot of these arab attacks destiny i told you
00:50:22.200
already by 1947 the design is said only seven is really far away no no no no that but i'm saying
00:50:29.080
by 1940 because you have to work it back if the zionists only owned six percent of the land where
00:50:35.320
they purchased it they actually owned it it's theirs in 1947 how would they own
00:50:39.960
any land prior to that legally they had even less that's what i'm trying to explain to you
00:50:43.800
yeah but how much land do you think the arabs owned it's theirs it's not there it's the brits
00:50:49.560
it's literally they're not indigenous why do you keep saying that they're brits because okay because
00:50:54.440
number one palestinians they the blood their blood ties to land the zionists don't they're from
00:50:59.560
eastern europe they're from ukraine russia belarus romania etc i don't even know if that's where most by
00:51:04.600
the 40s most jews are ashkenazi bro most jews are ashkenazi which means they're from eastern
00:51:09.800
europe and i think most i i'm not 100 sure if that's true but most israelis are ashkenazis and
00:51:14.120
most of these colonists back then were ashkenazi they have no ties to the land so they lose
00:51:18.680
automatically if we're going to be honest automatically because the only reason the
00:51:22.280
people there are arab palestinians are because of the caliphates because of the the muslim conquest
00:51:26.920
prior to that right if you want to go all the way back to the fucking the kingdom of israel and
00:51:30.760
shit right the the canaanites or whatever like these are people with jewish blood that can be
00:51:34.360
traced through whatever through going to different parts of the world and then eventually coming back
00:51:37.800
but the historical arguments are a loose argument but if you want to do the historical arguments
00:51:40.520
well you're going to go off theology you're going to have to go off theology if you're going to use
00:51:44.040
the historical if you're going to use the historical stuff because how however are you bro are you one
00:51:48.200
of those people that don't believe that there were any that the kingdom of israel was fake or that
00:51:51.240
like the whole the second temple was like a meme and didn't really exist no i'm not i'm not saying
00:51:54.920
that but what i am saying is like they you know we're the chosen people this is our land no not chosen
00:51:59.000
people jewish people lived in jerusalem before any uh you know muslim conquester showed up before the
00:52:05.640
arab before before islam even existed sure but are those are those the same jews that came back and
00:52:10.920
colonized them no they're not they're not how do you define a jew well there's many of them there's
00:52:16.680
sephardic jews there's ashkenazi jews there's mizrahi jews there's all different types but the colonizers
00:52:22.600
that came in the in the in the early 1900s those were definitely not the jews of past that they're
00:52:28.680
talking about this is our land they're jews and then they all they're all the descendants of the
00:52:32.600
jews from before no because there are diaspora people from all over the place but then they
00:52:36.440
but then they go ahead and say oh yeah no this is our land no you're there are diaspora people that
00:52:40.360
really can't be tied to any specific region because they've been all over the place have been expelled
00:52:44.680
for so many places so that's the that's the reality maybe the mizrahi jews have they would have
00:52:50.280
what does diaspora mean diaspora from where they're from they're from all over but what i'm trying to
00:52:55.080
they come from initially do you think jewish the jewish religion randomly sprung up in different
00:52:58.680
places all around the world see that's the problem it's not just a religion they're they're an
00:53:01.800
ethnicity too but if it's an ethnicity then that's an even stronger yeah i agree with you but like
00:53:07.000
was it an ethnicity that randomly sprung up all around the world or where did it okay let me make
00:53:10.280
this nice and simple for you the the the colonial zionists that came in are not the same jews that
00:53:17.400
you're talking about from thousands of years ago that had ties to lands they're not the same
00:53:20.920
they're not well i i think that's a highly contentious point i don't that's fine we can
00:53:26.360
we can move on to the other stuff because now we're going to get into all the lore and everything
00:53:29.400
else like that the the purpose of the argument is simply who has been a bigger obstacle to peace
00:53:33.960
i argue it's the zionists aka the israelis because the israelis have done far more to sabotage peace
00:53:39.320
talks and or when they do do the peace talks they negotiate bad faith where they're like okay we're
00:53:43.720
going to give you this palestinians but the reality is there's no real right to self-determination
00:53:49.080
there's no right of return they're taking the they're taking the best land they're using force
00:53:53.560
they're killing them what would what would the palestinians have accepted in 47
00:53:58.760
in 40 i mean not 50 not the uh zionists of the land what would they have accepted
00:54:05.160
that's a good question um the answer is nothing they wouldn't accept any you don't know that you
00:54:09.080
don't know that i do know that of course you don't you don't know that you don't know that
00:54:12.600
like what we do know is that the deal that they presented was not good 56 for one less than one
00:54:18.360
third of the population that doesn't make sense no no one in their mind would take that the
00:54:21.880
majority of that was the negev it was an empty desert we stuck on the point of what like who's
00:54:28.360
the obstacle to peace marin you mentioned before yes that from the palestinian perspective these
00:54:32.920
jews came in they were the colonizers they took over the land and if they took even 10 even if they
00:54:37.880
took one bedroom of the house they'll still say no so so at what point so would they have let any
00:54:43.960
jews take any salt any land and created the state in palestine well to be honest by them coming in
00:54:49.080
and try and colonizing the whole zionist project in itself is a detriment to peace because you're
00:54:53.480
violating another group of people's um sovereignty you're you're you're just you're killing them
00:54:58.360
you're taking their land so the reality is if we're going to be all the way honest here um
00:55:03.640
the zionists are wrong in every single way it's not their land so then i think that yeah so i mean
00:55:07.320
i mean i feel like that's basically my argument that there's no there's nothing acceptable for
00:55:11.320
the for the palestinians i mean for them to even negotiate what i'm saying is for them to even
00:55:16.040
negotiate with them right they don't even i i would argue they don't even need to negotiate with them
00:55:20.040
because these guys are colonizers coming in killing you etc the israelis have been the aggressors and
00:55:23.720
we can work our way backwards we can work our forwards the 1967 war i don't even agree that's but
00:55:29.320
that's not even necessarily an agreeable point because the arabs the whole the country collapsed it was one
00:55:34.040
of the empires that was wiped off the map after world war one the ottoman empire completely collapsed
00:55:38.120
and then the land was owned at that point by the brits if the brits wanted to they could have just
00:55:41.720
had that as part of their country and called it britain too and moved in whoever they wanted there
00:55:45.080
no the brits were the brits were there basically you know managing it but they did not want to hold
00:55:49.320
on to it obviously they were weakened after the wars sure but it was the british were the one
00:55:54.360
were allowed to do what they wanted with it no because they won it in war right i don't i don't i
00:55:59.640
think they were just there trying to facilitate some type of force to come in and take it over
00:56:03.320
they were doing i'm saying they wanted in war the same way that the prior caliphates had won land
00:56:06.840
in war right they expanded in shrunken size based on what they were able to conquer the brits defeated
00:56:11.720
the brits on the winning side in world war one the ottoman empire was one of the great empires
00:56:14.680
that collapsed and the land sure brits to do what they wanted with it right yeah but they didn't
00:56:17.960
want it they they wanted to get rid of it i didn't say they wanted it i'm saying it was theirs
00:56:21.160
the way they wanted part of what they did with it was you brought up the balfour declaration
00:56:24.120
is they had made a promise to the jewish people who you know agreed to help in whatever way they
00:56:27.320
could in world war one they made a promise to them that they would allow there to be some
00:56:30.520
homeland for their safe haven for the jewish people i don't remember the fucking words or whatever
00:56:34.040
but that there would be some safe haven or some land for the jewish people in the middle east that
00:56:37.480
was a promise that the brits had made to the jews so the jews felt like they could rely on that promise
00:56:41.640
um the arabs lost that war the adamant empire collapsed they didn't have a country in the in
00:56:46.760
the middle east that was like their country it was the brits to basically divide up as they saw fit
00:56:51.080
all right let's go to we'll go to 1967 it's fine and we'll just kind of work our way right um
00:56:56.120
so at what point what point would uh the arabs ever have or the palestinians ever have accepted
00:57:03.000
peace or accepted a jewish state well i mean you'd have to ask them but what i'm saying is that every
00:57:09.000
single deal that was proposed by the israelis was either a done a bad faith be not fair whatsoever
00:57:15.240
despite them being a minority um and them using force etc like nothing was ever actually worth signing or
00:57:22.440
not worth agreeing to like i don't think anyone with half a brain would have agreed to it even
00:57:26.840
even israeli negotiators later on when asked hey yeah i wouldn't have agreed to that deal either
00:57:31.800
like everything whether it's also accords the 1967 uh the 1967 uh u.n security council 242
00:57:37.880
um the the abraham accords the camp david accords which didn't even involve the palestinians
00:57:42.200
whatsoever i would argue the abraham accords in uh 2020 with trump actually led to october 7th and then
00:57:49.240
we could fast forward all the way until last month or a couple weeks ago where they bombed qatar uh
00:57:54.200
during the middle of negotiations the the reality is the israelis sabotage every single peace deal
00:57:59.720
and then they lie and say oh no the palestinians don't want peace when in reality you got people
00:58:03.720
like benjamin netanyahu though the closest we ever came was maybe the oslo accords i would argue
00:58:07.480
maybe that came the closest but what did they do they assassinated yitzhak rabin who did it someone
00:58:11.960
from the lakud party the israelis yitzhak rabin was assassinated by a member of the lakud party
00:58:19.240
by a radical scientist yes by radical radical extremists that's precisely my point and then who
00:58:25.160
came into power after yitzhak rabin benjamin netanyahu because because even though yitzhak
00:58:29.560
rabin didn't forfeit anything he barely gave them anything he just basically gave them the plo which
00:58:34.360
was a scam in itself oh yeah you could uh the plo we're going to give you the palestinian authority
00:58:38.760
right which basically that's not we're going we're going way too far okay yeah but like i'm just i'm
00:58:44.840
just trying to point out the fact that rabin was murdered by an ultra radical scientist that's fine
00:58:48.280
sure but sadat was also assassinated as well and arafat felt like he would have been assassinated
00:58:52.600
if he ever made any peace so that with israel so that doesn't matter the the camp david of course
00:58:57.240
in 1978 are a joke they didn't even involve palace they didn't even involve the palestinians in it
00:59:00.920
whatsoever that was a peace deal palestinians it was a peace deal between egypt and and israel yeah
00:59:05.160
no but it was it was it's used all the time it's like oh yeah us negotiating peace but the reality
00:59:09.880
was just an agreement between the egyptians and the israelis to facilitate you know get the sinai
00:59:15.320
peninsula back etc make a deal it was the first it was a massive undertaking it's the first peace
00:59:20.040
deal between jews and arabs ever right yeah but they but people market it as if it was a deal that
00:59:25.000
benefited the palestinians it only hurt the palestinians it didn't help them well i don't
00:59:28.520
know who markets it that way it doesn't but all the time it's benefited the zionists say all the time oh
00:59:32.440
yeah uh you know they've they've dropped every single peace deal that we've given them and they
00:59:36.440
mentioned the camp david accords wait wait i'm sorry one second go ahead no worries um no so if i could just
00:59:42.360
continue if it's not here i mean the the title of the debate is who is a big obstacle to peace
00:59:48.520
and what you're saying is that you're not sure if the palestinians you know anything that the
00:59:52.120
zionists presented the palestinians wouldn't have accepted because the zionists were doing it in bad
00:59:55.960
faith yes and and but you can't name anything that the palestinians would have accepted so are you
01:00:00.520
saying both of them well here's the thing i i am not i am not i am not you know uh yas arafat i am
01:00:06.280
not one of the main negotiators i don't know what they would have accepted but what i what they wanted
01:00:10.200
was simply was obviously the the right of return let's be honest they're probably not going to get
01:00:15.880
that but they wanted some type of sovereignty right they wanted a palestinian state independent
01:00:20.920
and the israelis never gave them that ever that's all they wanted was hey look we're going to figure
01:00:25.160
something out even though these deals that you guys keep giving us are bullshit whether we're not even
01:00:28.920
invited to the table or we're not getting any type of sovereignty we're not getting any type of right
01:00:33.080
to determination they might get autonomy but it's always bullshit autonomy like the with things for
01:00:38.200
example with the 93 oslo accords right what basically happened was oh we'll go ahead and
01:00:42.920
give you guys the palestinian authority the palestinian authority was nothing more than a
01:00:45.960
shin bet front man there and and uh idf front man they would go ahead and just basically give information
01:00:52.440
to um to the israelis and you know you know it's funny how how we know that this is real
01:00:59.080
the israelis don't even hide from it and admit that oh yeah a lot of these uh these palestinian
01:01:03.000
groups especially the palestinian authority like work for us secretly like even in their tv shows they admit
01:01:07.880
that the pa works with basically works for them giving them information to subvert any type of
01:01:13.480
situations that the palestinians have yeah yeah it's fine he was asking me to explain different
01:01:17.720
different things but yes bro basically recognize the palestinian state giving them their uh right to
01:01:22.360
self-determination which the israelis will never give them and they've never given that what happened
01:01:26.200
on 48 that that's what was on option no it wasn't no that was not an option that was not an option
01:01:31.640
that was not an option the israelis the israelis still had the majority even the the majority of
01:01:37.400
the land despite being the minority and they were were ruling and even the palestinians that lived
01:01:41.720
in their territory they would have the authority over them so the thing with the israelis is this
01:01:45.960
they negotiate in bad faith and then they always ensure that they have the monopoly of force they
01:01:49.720
have the monopoly on on uh on airspace having a monopoly on on resources and that is how they always
01:01:55.160
negotiate and then when they the palestinians say no we don't want this they get into a war but why would
01:02:00.120
they accept anything where they don't have any type of right to determine a self-right determination
01:02:03.960
they would have had every right ever in 47 if they would have accepted the partition no they would
01:02:08.120
have had their own country yeah they would have their own country what do you mean their own country
01:02:11.400
but the israelis rule everything no dude no they wouldn't wait the israelis wouldn't have ruled
01:02:15.080
everything they would have ruled their part that they had and then the arabs would have ruled their
01:02:17.960
part no because the zionists had the majority of the land but it doesn't but that would but that's
01:02:24.040
their state the other land would be given to the arabs for their state and again like i told you before
01:02:28.200
who was running wait wait they would have been two separate states that was the whole point of
01:02:31.640
the partition that's what partition means okay okay let's be clear about this okay i said this before
01:02:35.800
i'll say it again back then who was the head who was the head of the zionist party it was ben
01:02:41.400
gurien right so we know since 1937 he had been planning to steal all the land he had been saying
01:02:47.160
this and right i'm just saying that but no that's important one eight one it would have been a jewish
01:02:51.880
state and it would have been an arab state that would have never happened that would have never
01:02:55.080
happened because ben gurien was that his intention was never to ever to stay you have no proof of
01:02:59.640
that there's no way i can't prove the counter i can't prove the counteractual he wrote yeah they
01:03:04.680
wrote that they hope that the jewish state would expand and everything that's fine but that's like
01:03:07.800
tons of people write letters and plans for hopes for a lot of different things we can't look at a
01:03:11.880
letter and written in 36 37 and say oh he would have betrayed this deal unless you can show me a
01:03:16.120
bunch of other deals that um israel like betrayed against arabs but it's hard to find those okay
01:03:20.520
never make the deals the first prime minister of israel ben gurien admitted himself we are going
01:03:27.880
to feign diplomacy we're going to pretend like we want to make peace and we are going to take all
01:03:33.000
the land it's in his letters you want me to pull it up i could pull it up it's in his letters dude
01:03:37.640
where he's writing into a son we are going to take all the land and we are going to you know let me i
01:03:41.240
think i wrote down the the exact quote you wrote let me let me find this for you i feel like the the
01:03:45.400
letter the thing was like a stepping stone into a future israeli home or something no it was a
01:03:50.680
stepping stone for them to take all the land they never were negotiating okay here we uh
01:03:56.440
okay we will abolish the port uh the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole land
01:04:03.160
of israel he wrote that to his son and he said and he admitted that the peel commission was simply
01:04:09.800
to get their foot in the door to get legitimacy once they got that legitimacy they will slowly
01:04:13.800
start to take land and then the numbers prove it bro 20 of the peel commission 56 in the in the um
01:04:18.760
1947 partition plan then in 1967 they wrote oh yeah we're gonna leave these territories they haven't
01:04:23.960
left them since because they ambiguously wrote the 242 uh charter which they didn't write the when they
01:04:31.160
said the territory so that allowed it for ambiguity and they use that fucking word salad
01:04:35.880
to their advantage and they've held those territories since
01:04:38.520
uh steven like i can't fight against the counterfactual but like the reality is is
01:04:45.480
there might be some truth to this um i think i'm quoting um shlomo ben ami here the arabs never
01:04:51.320
missed an opportunity didn't miss an opportunity or maybe that was about the jews both sides
01:04:54.040
seem to do it the reality is it's impossible for me to prove that the jews would have betrayed
01:04:58.440
you know you want to know it's funny you mentioned slow slow mobile
01:05:01.800
but wait wait let me just finish this thing there's no way that i could prove the counterfactual
01:05:04.840
there because arabs never accepted a deal ever there's so there's nothing that you could even
01:05:08.040
point to for the jews backstabbing a deal because the arabs never accepted they accepted the oslo
01:05:11.880
accords that's way that's like 50 years later that's a way way way way way different thing okay
01:05:17.960
we're making this accusation that they're negotiating a bad faith and all this but the reality is is this
01:05:22.440
is not true they would have accepted any deal because van gurien was obsessed with winning some kind
01:05:27.400
of favor with the west especially with france and britain at the time um because the us wasn't quite
01:05:32.360
seen as like the big boy quite yet but um the idea that they would have accepted something from
01:05:36.520
the u.n and then they would have just instantly backstabbed the arabs they would have lost the
01:05:40.520
support from anybody in the world they would have been completely isolated and they probably
01:05:43.720
gotten crushed by everybody i like but there's no way for me to disprove a nuclear bomb prove
01:05:47.480
this they had no then they have 48 not in 47 no no no no no no no no i'm talking about i'm
01:05:51.880
moving forward to the 60s now because yeah but we're still arguing in 48 i'm just saying that this
01:05:55.880
this division um the the that palestinian partition plan if it would have been accepted the arabs would
01:06:01.480
have had a state and jews would have had a state well the idea that jews would have conquered it
01:06:04.200
and taken it over there's just no way that you can prove that there's no way that i can disprove
01:06:07.560
your counterfactual i have this i have i told you his personal letters that he wrote to his son the
01:06:12.040
plan was never to actually do a two uh a two-state solution it was never to have any type of situation
01:06:16.840
with the they wanted the arabs gone that was the plan from the beginning why do you think they
01:06:21.160
aggressively fought to get the nuclear bomb why because they felt like they didn't have any allies
01:06:26.520
in the west and they were worried that they wouldn't be able to defend themselves from surrounding
01:06:29.240
arab countries no because they never wanted to have peace with anybody that that ever
01:06:36.360
but then why would they get the why would they make peace with israel and make peace with jordan
01:06:40.280
after they had the nuclear bomb no no they only made peace with jordan egypt because we basically
01:06:45.560
facilitated that and we give jordan and egypt a bunch of aid to do so wait but why but why
01:06:50.040
they didn't want to have peace with anyone why would they make peace with them if they got the
01:06:52.440
nuclear you just said they got the nuclear bomb so they wouldn't have to make peace with anybody
01:06:54.920
but they got a nuclear bomb and then afterwards they made peace because here's the thing
01:06:57.720
exactly and that's another argument i was going to make actually them procuring the nuclear bomb
01:07:01.400
and doing it illegally by the way while you know being involved in killing a u.s president
01:07:05.720
stealing their uranium the whole apollo affair this is true again i'm just saying that i'm just saying
01:07:11.400
that you just said that they got the nuclear bomb so they wouldn't have to make peace with anybody
01:07:13.960
but they got the nuclear bomb and then made peace with with everybody afterwards okay so no no they
01:07:18.440
only made peace with the egyptians and the jordanians for tactical reasons because united states didn't
01:07:22.440
want to have to always constantly watch their back with the borders because obviously from a strategic
01:07:26.040
standpoint the united states says look egypt and jordan we're going to give you guys a lot of
01:07:29.560
money play nice with israel because it would cost us more to help israel with their defense with
01:07:34.120
two countries around their border fighting them obviously lebanon didn't bite into this and they
01:07:37.560
said screw you guys we're going to keep fighting you guys but the reality is egypt and jordan only
01:07:41.720
play nice because we give them a lot of money they're they're number two and three but it was also
01:07:45.640
but everybody it was also in everybody's best interest to have peace between them so they
01:07:50.760
wouldn't be fighting each other anymore right like it was in israel's interest it was in
01:07:53.960
egypt's interest and it was in jordan's interest yeah but again here's the again this comes back
01:07:58.760
to us i could go all day with how israel there's not a peace broker whatsoever they start all the
01:08:03.400
wars in the middle east whether it's them getting the nuclear bomb which created the nuclear bomb
01:08:07.480
uh race arms race wait wait wait no one even created the nuclear bomb arms race what do you
01:08:11.240
mean everybody around the world was getting nuclear bombs when when israel got who do you think
01:08:14.200
they did most of their research with it was with south africa in the middle east everybody around
01:08:17.480
the world i'm talking about they started a nuclear arms race in the middle east and then on top of
01:08:21.800
that right on top of that they illegally who started the who was the first one to start the war in 47
01:08:29.080
what with the with with the arabs yeah yeah what about it the arabs started that the palestinians
01:08:35.000
started the war in 47 yes when okay and then in 48 when israel declared their the war of independence
01:08:40.600
after they won the civil war against the palestinians who started a war at that point in 48
01:08:45.560
i told you yeah the arabs started the war the arabs because they rejected the partition plan which was
01:08:50.040
obviously that which was not fair to them whatsoever the idea that israel started all
01:08:53.720
the wars doesn't seem to hold much who started the war who started yam kippur in 73 okay so they
01:08:59.160
started the 67 war right they started yeah they did start the 67 war i don't think i know that's a fact
01:09:04.600
that's how they won they snuck attack the egyptians that's that's how they won and then
01:09:08.200
why did they start that war why did they start that war well they claim they claim that the egyptians
01:09:14.120
were going to invade them is what they what they claimed why did they say that though because
01:09:17.800
because nasser had literally ejected all of the u.n peacekeeping forces out of the sinai and started
01:09:23.240
to deploy troops across the sinai to show the rest of the middle east of how big and Israeli intelligence
01:09:27.560
yes israeli intelligence said that israeli intelligence that's what happened u.n peacekeeping
01:09:31.560
forces were ejected from that region and this whole region and the and the occupation of this and the
01:09:36.040
closure of the um fucking strait of tyran was the whole reason why they had just had a war ten
01:09:40.600
years when i said when i said that they start the wars i wasn't referring i was referring to
01:09:44.600
the middle eastern wars of modern day society with the war on terrorism i'm talking about that
01:09:48.920
i'm saying yeah that's what i was referring to was yeah well i was look we could go back in time
01:09:55.400
because we're jumping all over here we're talking about uh 47 then we moved on to 67 i told you why
01:10:00.200
in 67 they did not um they didn't want to accept it um so wait a second let's just you're right you're
01:10:09.320
we're jumping around yeah yeah we go to the war on terror next and then and then obviously the
01:10:13.560
nuclear bomb and all that other stuff because because other thing that no one talks about with
01:10:17.160
67 is that obviously this let after the suez canal crisis israel went and worked and got the nuclear
01:10:22.840
bomb and that created a bunch of problems as well okay so before we go what do you want to do do you
01:10:27.160
want to stick on 48 do you want to go to 67 i think we're we're not going to agree on the on the
01:10:31.000
because he thinks that the partition plan would have gotten them a state i'm like we don't know that
01:10:35.000
i just think that that's what the partition plan was about to be clear that's what it was about
01:10:38.120
you say that there would have been a greater conspiracy to backstab the state afterwards
01:10:41.400
been gurian admitted this i can't fight no he didn't um and i can't do a counterfactual here
01:10:45.880
then we're an impasse there my thing is even if they had agreed to the 47 even though the rules were
01:10:51.000
at the um even though the deal was not to the favor of the palestinians whatsoever again we're
01:10:56.440
talking about less than 33 the percent of the population wanting for these six percent of the land
01:11:00.680
they would they'd have yes they'd have palestinians within their people but they would be basically
01:11:04.200
ruling them and they would have all the fertile land i wouldn't accept that either if i was a
01:11:07.160
palestinian and then on top of that they were killing them and destroying them and they had
01:11:10.920
a whole bunch of and these paramilitary organizations running all around why would they go ahead and
01:11:14.440
agree to that partition plan and then obviously a war ensued rightfully so they lost the war though
01:11:18.680
which is a l for them but the reality is we don't know how it would have went but what my argument is
01:11:23.640
ben gurian who was the leader of the zionist movement admitted since 1937 that it was never about
01:11:29.080
actually having a two-state solution it was about taking everything over and then if you look at the
01:11:32.120
peal commission he wanted 20 then you go to the partition plan they wanted 56 i mean it only
01:11:37.000
makes sense logically that they were asking for more land and the leader said he never wanted
01:11:41.240
a two-state solution so i don't believe that the 47 partition plan would have led to a two-state
01:11:45.640
solution that's my position there we can go to 67 though sure i mean that could be your position
01:11:49.720
there the reality is is the jews not nobody was happy with the partition plan um when it was first
01:11:54.680
suggested the eras weren't happy they intensified their civil war um the jews weren't happy because they
01:11:58.920
felt like they they barely had any land you know whatsoever and part of ben gurian as a politician part of his
01:12:05.000
his way to sell this because that quote i think comes from like a jewish council meeting part of
01:12:08.680
the way that he sold this to his people was basically hey listen right it sucks right now
01:12:12.520
but you know we'll expand to the future it'll be better in the future there's a politician selling
01:12:15.720
political words uh in order to get the the jewish people on board with accepting the petition plan
01:12:20.360
now you can make the argument maybe in the future that they would have engaged in some kind of
01:12:24.120
offensive war to take territory but i would argue that future behavior in wars doesn't seems to betray
01:12:29.400
that um even in 67 which we can go to uh like they were like they begged uh the jordanian king not
01:12:35.080
to invade they said don't do this don't attack us from the west bank it's not going to be good and
01:12:38.920
they and he did it anyway and then that's how jordan ended up losing their occupation of the west
01:12:42.920
bank to israel so i mean like we can say that that israel would have kept pushing for more land
01:12:46.600
maybe they would have but it's but unfortunately it's part of my argument it's impossible to ever
01:12:50.040
know that because arabs never agreed to any deal ever with regards to israel which also gave jews
01:12:55.480
basically infinite um you know ability to continue to fight and take what they wanted essentially
01:13:00.040
well i think the nine the oslo courts is where we'll get to that thing where they there was
01:13:04.680
something on the table there and we can address that next but i think the partition plan and the
01:13:08.200
appeal commission were bs and we can kind of get it we get it to 1967 now why they rejected uh i'll give
01:13:12.920
you my position i'll ask you a question before we move on tonight yeah sure i could just ask you a
01:13:16.520
question 1948 um you said the reason why you can't trust david ben gurren is because he wrote those letters to
01:13:22.280
his son yes um you also meant you also mentioned about menachem begin that he was a terrorist but
01:13:27.080
he's the one that managed to do a peace deal with egypt later on quite a few years later on
01:13:31.000
so if someone had one mindset at one point could they not have changed it and start doing peace like
01:13:37.160
menachem begin did yeah the only reason menachem begin did the deal with the egyptians is uh because
01:13:42.600
again the united states was involved and the united states was like look you guys need to do some kind
01:13:46.520
of peace with your neighbors because we don't want to foot the bill for all of your wars and all your
01:13:51.480
your conflicts it was a strategic move by the united states to get um the egyptians to work with
01:13:57.240
the israelis okay i mean i guess it didn't involve palestine whatsoever the the camp david accords was
01:14:04.360
a scam it had nothing to do with the palestinians it was a when and and it's funny because zionists
01:14:08.520
always use that it's not a scam it's not it wasn't supposed to have anything to do with the
01:14:11.400
palestinians but it had to do with the but it's marketed i get destiny me and you get that right
01:14:15.800
because we understand this stuff i'm telling you that other people all the time when i listen to
01:14:19.480
the zionists argue they use the camp david accords as an example of palestinians not accepting peace
01:14:24.120
they use it all the time you don't because you guys get it wait wait wait wait wait are you sure
01:14:27.400
you're not making the summit the 78 accords i'm talking about the 78 accords yeah but
01:14:32.120
we'll talk about that yes we'll talk about that too okay that was bs as well okay um
01:14:39.800
okay so we'll move on to the sixth table sure yeah yeah so with um with 67 right so just just so i
01:14:45.480
can make i'm just going to kind of summarize my thing so with the peel commission right we had the
01:14:49.800
issues where um you had hostile colonizers in there with their labor unions pushing out palestinians
01:14:56.840
taking their land etc even though destiny feels like it's not their land that's fine um but i'm
01:15:00.840
giving their their perspective right so ben-gurion enters into the peel commission in 1937 saying look
01:15:06.600
we're going to go ahead and answer this with the perspective of we are going to be legitimizing because
01:15:11.080
we are negotiating with these individuals even though we're colonizer invaders and that's
01:15:14.360
going to make us look legit and then we're going to ask for 20 which is what the appeal commission
01:15:18.040
wanted even though they wanted the fertile land and when he used private letters to his son the
01:15:22.120
plan all along was always to take the land fully then with the um 1947 petition plan they wanted even
01:15:29.160
though they were one uh less than one-third of the population they only owned six percent of the land
01:15:33.400
they wanted uh they wanted 56 percent of land obviously palestinians didn't agree to that either and that
01:15:37.640
ensued with a war later on because obviously they had the urgun hagana stern gang etc these gangs had been
01:15:43.880
killing and destroying multiple villages all across leading up to that partition plan and
01:15:49.960
obviously they declared uh there they after in 1948 they declared their um their independence i'm
01:15:55.000
putting it on speaker i can still hear you i'm just gonna run no problem no problem i'm recapping
01:15:58.120
anyway so you're good um and then may 15 1948 obviously they went ahead and they were able to
01:16:02.280
create their stay in that it created a war right um now we're going to get into and and again even
01:16:07.960
though people say the partition plan would have given them a state i don't believe that because
01:16:11.160
based off of the behavior by ben-gurion right where he started with 20 then he went to 56 despite
01:16:15.720
being the minority and we had those letters we know for a fact that the goal was never to actually
01:16:20.520
have peace it was to take the land fully from the beginning so that is my uh reasoning now let's get
01:16:25.800
into 1967 um obviously this was passed after the six-day war uh where they lost and they started this
01:16:31.240
whole concept of land for peace right that's what leads into the 1978 situation um so here's the
01:16:36.200
biggest problem with this resolution it was not specific about which territories the the israelis
01:16:41.480
would um would uh withdraw from it was not specific it just said they'll withdraw from territories um
01:16:47.240
and then withdrawal of israel armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict that's
01:16:52.440
what it said that's not descriptive whatsoever and where they would withdraw what are you reading
01:16:56.600
from are you reading well in this already proposed that's actually from the english um 1967 u.s
01:17:01.400
security council it says withdrawal what he's he's what he's reading from is it's this is resolution
01:17:05.640
242 that um commits people to creating some kind of place maybe for the palestines the one which
01:17:12.840
with the word the wasn't involved yes and that's very important there's a debate over it because the
01:17:16.600
french version of this didn't include it and the english version didn't or whatever and so people
01:17:20.440
are and the israelis and the israelis ran with the with obviously with the um french or the english
01:17:25.080
version that didn't specify which territories this is very important and then one of the people that
01:17:29.880
wrote this lord garradon from the uk admitted that they didn't put the the they're on purpose so i
01:17:35.480
mean that shows that there was never really an intent and at this point just so you know when 1967
01:17:41.240
this is when they had the most land was this when they were one of the most powerful this is why they
01:17:45.080
pursued the nuclear bomb right after this so there was never an intention to actually come to any type
01:17:50.040
of deal the goal was to prolong for a period of time control the territories get the nuclear bomb once you
01:17:56.600
get the nuclear bomb people can't do shit to you and they were able to do this later on with the
01:18:00.440
yam kippur war that's what saved them in the yam kippur war was the nuclear bomb so even if it meant
01:18:04.840
that didn't save them in yam kippur at all what saved them was the fact that america started to
01:18:09.080
replace hardcore all of their losses i think on day three into the war but but why did we come in and
01:18:12.920
save them at all destiny why did we come in and save them in 73 then um i i mean well because they were
01:18:18.600
our ally there and during the cold war is we were interested in because the soviets were supporting the
01:18:23.400
other side and we were interested in having a foothold there on the israeli side and israel was
01:18:26.520
kind of like the us entry point into the middle east no i'll tell you why because uh the pm um
01:18:31.320
goldemeier called nixon and said if you don't go ahead and give us this airdrop and you don't
01:18:35.960
support us we're going to drop a nuclear bomb on these guys and obviously after world war ii no
01:18:39.400
one wanted to see a nuclear bomb dropped again the israelis telegraphed this and soviet satellites
01:18:44.200
saw it that's how they knew that they were going to drop a nuclear bomb on them the only reason
01:18:48.040
they survived the yam kippur war because they were losing because they got a sneak attack back on
01:18:51.560
them and got to taste their own medicine the only reason they didn't lose is because of american
01:18:55.160
support and the fact that goldemeier literally blackmailed nixon with the nuclear bomb they were
01:19:00.680
going to drop the nuclear bomb and that's what that's why they're safe to this day yeah that i
01:19:05.000
just i don't 100 true historical thing that was 100 true that's not even a part of my argument here
01:19:09.800
but once again i'm just saying this to explain that all of this was posturing so that they could
01:19:14.920
get the nuclear bomb now we can go ahead and have a debate whether you know they're involved in
01:19:18.440
killing jfk or whatever that's fine we don't have to even have that debate but what i will say is
01:19:21.960
this jfk actively fought against the israelis getting a nuclear bomb everyone in his administration
01:19:27.560
was told about this i think it was eisenhower that was before um kennedy and they warned him that they're
01:19:31.960
trying to get a nuclear bomb and they if they get a nuclear bomb it's going to set off a chain
01:19:35.560
reaction in the middle east and the israelis when it got the nuclear bomb ben gurry installed for
01:19:40.360
months with kennedy how many bombs did they even have made at that point like one they had a few they
01:19:45.320
they had a few at that point what would the chain reaction even be well if you get a nuclear bomb
01:19:49.240
everyone else in the regions want to get a nuclear bomb that's going to create a problem for the
01:19:51.880
united states that's what that was kennedy's biggest fear was creating a nuclear arms race
01:19:55.640
in the middle east that's why he told ben gurian we need nuclear inspections and ben gurian lied to
01:19:59.640
him for several wait if they if they i don't understand if we were trying to avoid that israel
01:20:04.920
got a nuke though so it seems like that would have been wouldn't the better thing just been to let
01:20:07.640
them get destroyed by the arab states no they stole the nuclear stuff from us is what i'm trying to
01:20:12.440
explain they stole it from us testing was with south africa yeah but they got that they got the
01:20:16.680
material from us they stole it from us this was the all documented the apollo affair affair i don't
01:20:21.160
remember if this was promotion from france maybe but regardless i just don't like do you not think
01:20:25.400
that the united states had an interest in in seeing you know some kind of western friendly state existing
01:20:30.600
in the middle east considering the soviets were backing no no surprisingly surprisingly oh and a lot
01:20:36.280
of people don't know this wait wait no you think there was we had no interest all the stuff in
01:20:40.360
afghanistan um and the soviet invasion there we had no interest in anything in the middle east
01:20:44.280
i'll explain no no no we did we did but kennedy kennedy uh kennedy wanted to have uh peace with
01:20:50.120
the arabs he did not want to go ahead and just arm the israelis and give them a bunch of weapons
01:20:53.640
how can you have peace with the arabs they were backed by the soviets completely but like bought
01:20:56.760
and paid for there's no way they would have just agreed to peace with the united states doesn't
01:20:59.560
make any sense here's the thing he wanted to get influence with them to take them from the soviets
01:21:04.520
that was the goal the whole time and then obviously with the israelis doing what they were doing that put
01:21:08.680
them in a very precarious situation because he was trying to influence when with the with the
01:21:13.800
middle east when they already had they were already bought and paid for by the soviets the middle east
01:21:17.960
got a lot of their armor from that's where they got a lot of their intelligence support from the
01:21:20.760
middle east always plays both sides bro me and you both know this saudi arabia does this right there
01:21:24.840
you know one end they're like oh yeah we love america other end they're buying weapons from russia
01:21:28.360
and china like this is what the middle east does they've always done this but kennedy wanted to vie
01:21:33.080
for that for that support in in the middle east and he did understand the palestinian plight uh you
01:21:38.440
know he was never really a fan of ben-gurion and and the state of israel obviously a lot of people
01:21:43.800
don't know this because they had private letters going back and forth fighting with each other
01:21:46.840
but it's a known fact that kennedy had been fighting with ben-gurion and the israelis to stop
01:21:50.760
their nuclear program for years uh some people allege that's the reason that got him killed i won't
01:21:54.600
go into conspiracy theories but what the fact is is that that was absolutely a big point with the kenny
01:22:00.280
administration and his brother rfk was trying to get the zionist council to register under farah
01:22:04.840
this all created a lot of issues with them um and then nixon knew this um but then they ended up
01:22:09.720
getting okay one thing i don't i don't think anything of this is true and i don't even know
01:22:13.160
how we could begin to source any of these things but like let's okay back just like sure everything
01:22:17.640
i said is sure you can look it up while we're on the six day war yeah we're on the six day war so so
01:22:22.520
going back to the six day war right so what i was saying was basically um so the resolution wasn't
01:22:27.720
specific about the territories right it was withdrawal of israel armed forces from territories
01:22:32.280
occupied in the in the uh recent conflict versus the french version did say the territories right
01:22:37.640
um the lord carried on from the uk admitted that there was a lack of the and they did this on
01:22:42.840
purpose um israel put loopholes like this in charters all the time for decades um joel singer
01:22:48.200
and israeli legal advisor admitted to this as well that they purposely okay why can i just finish
01:22:53.560
bringing up real quick well why are you bringing up 242 here i'm just trying to what is the no no
01:22:56.440
we're talking about we're talking about 67 now we're off we're off uh 47. no but when you when
01:23:01.640
you're when you're bringing up the territories this is the wording that was used for resolution 242
01:23:06.360
that came at the end of the six-day war but this wording is only brought up when people are attacking
01:23:11.480
the idea that israel fulfilled their obligations to resolution 242 in 79 when they made peace with
01:23:15.560
israel because israel said that its obligations have been fulfilled because they had returned sinai which was
01:23:19.640
a conquered territory was an occupied territory that's why people bring up this um the
01:23:23.160
theoretically this difference in wording or the lack of the word the in the english version
01:23:26.680
versus the french version for resolution 242 so i don't know why it was relevant here for 67.
01:23:31.000
yeah it's it's well i'm referring to it with with uh with the palestinians and i'm saying that it's
01:23:35.560
it's relevant because they purposely wrote it this way so that they can go ahead and get a whole bunch
01:23:39.800
of shit done in the meantime um and not actually push towards um some type of real resolution to buy
01:23:46.120
themselves time um and then also what else here oh yeah and also they they the another big thing with the
01:23:51.960
i don't understand how that might be in 67 jordan pushed through the the west bank through jerusalem
01:23:57.640
to go into israel after israel bombed egypt right
01:24:05.080
you're you're saying after the six-day war the israelis won the six-day war i'm saying that
01:24:08.440
during i'm saying on was it june 6th i don't remember yeah it was june yeah it was like june 6th yeah
01:24:12.520
june of june 4th june 6th bombed israel bombed the egyptian airports yep and then nasser communicated to
01:24:19.400
king hussein that the airplanes that were flying back to israel they were actually his planes his
01:24:23.480
bombers and then the jordanian king readied his army to invade israel i want to say moshe dayan i
01:24:30.040
think was the minister of war whatever this point was communicating with the with the king and saying
01:24:33.800
hey don't do this don't invade us and he said i think the quote is the die has been cast and then
01:24:37.960
they invade and then jordan loses that invasion miserably and that's when israel conquers the west bank
01:24:42.760
it was in response to jordan attempting to invade okay so then they get the west bank there from jordan
01:24:46.920
um they get the um the gaza strip i guess in the sinai from egypt during that and then i think
01:24:52.760
east jerusalem from jordan well sure they i mean the whole west bank right includes
01:24:57.160
east jerusalem right um and then the um yeah yeah from syria right but this is in response to
01:25:03.800
fighting with all of these countries right yep okay so so what do we make what what i'm saying is that
01:25:12.760
they well number one we we know that they never really retreated from anything uh except for the
01:25:17.400
sinai peninsula because they struck the you know the the deal with with uh egypt but the point i'm
01:25:23.240
trying to make is is that this this document was written ambiguously on purpose and then it didn't
01:25:28.040
address the palestinian issue i'm talking more specifically with the palestinians because it
01:25:31.880
didn't even refer to the palestinians they just referred to them as uh it is basically like a refugee
01:25:37.320
problem they didn't even refer to them as the palestinians and they purposely left it that way why do you think that
01:25:41.480
is though well there was no intention of ever giving them any type of sovereignties there
01:25:47.000
was no well there the idea or the existence of like a palestinian people that's a more recent
01:25:52.440
phenomenon i mean they really emerged that much until like 47 48 and then from 48 to 67 the west
01:25:59.240
bank was occupied by jordan jordan annexed it formally just made all those people jordanian citizens
01:26:03.560
egypt annexed the gaza strip and for one year had like a little faux government that they ended up
01:26:07.400
recalling to cairo and the disbanding almost immediately like after a year so there were no palestinian
01:26:11.240
people there it wasn't until israel occupied both territories that all of a sudden some people
01:26:16.120
started to talk about like a palestinian people but i believe yeah 242 justice just calls it the
01:26:20.600
refugee problem but another reason why that resolution completely it doesn't because nobody
01:26:25.160
knew what to do at that point nobody knows like what do you do at that point like the idea like
01:26:28.840
they're not going to say these territories should be independent they weren't independent before
01:26:31.800
israel conquered them they were owned by jordan and egypt right well what i'm saying is that it
01:26:35.640
didn't address the problem at all it didn't address the right of return whatsoever completely like ignored
01:26:39.880
it um and then also on top of that my argument is they had no intention of having peace because
01:26:44.840
while this was going on they also bombed the u.s liberty right uh that was during the six-day war
01:26:51.560
yes yes so the while this was going on they bombed the uss liberty right and then after that they went
01:26:57.400
ahead and tried to get the nuclear well they already had the nuclear bomb at this point and they were
01:27:00.920
working ahead in the 67 but yeah they got yeah they got it pretty much that year and
01:27:04.760
they so what what i'm arguing is that israel is not a true broker of peace whatsoever whether it's
01:27:10.280
not acknowledging the palestinian problem yeah but you're giving them their sovereignty where
01:27:13.480
all they're getting like fighting against israel it's not like israel is the one who's like
01:27:17.000
starting these wars right the air well they started the 67 war not really i mean they started
01:27:21.720
it dude yeah because because the entire arab world poised themselves as being about to about
01:27:26.680
to attack right well here's the thing they they started the war right they started the war they
01:27:32.920
didn't address the policy and problem the right of return etc when i'm talking about this this piece
01:27:36.680
i'm saying that nasser had already closed down the same straits that had led to a war 10 years earlier
01:27:41.560
kicked out all of the u.n peacekeeping troops to ensure that there wouldn't be another war
01:27:45.160
and then was telling people the arab trade unionists the next war will be a war of annihilation
01:27:49.800
um yeah i mean it looked like they were poised for war you could argue but they didn't start
01:27:53.080
technically they didn't start they didn't start technically but it was obviously because your
01:27:56.600
argument you're saying is that the the you said that the arab started the arab started they didn't
01:28:00.120
the israelis started that one no but they were poised for war that you could argue that the closing
01:28:05.000
of those straits was across his belly for war they had been fighting bro they're always poised for
01:28:09.800
war they're they're obviously right now they're poised for war like you can make the argument that
01:28:13.720
they're not even close to poised for war right now absolutely no i'm saying i'm saying other countries
01:28:17.800
i'm saying israel before the six-day war the straits of tyran were closed weren't they you
01:28:23.320
know there are a hundred thousand a lot of troops in uh near israel's borders and uh if you look at
01:28:28.600
historians a lot of historians say that the israelis and a lot of them reservists called up so they
01:28:33.320
were like in a state of emergency so it was more of a of a state of war more than ever it wasn't you
01:28:39.800
know the whole time but here's the thing you can make the argument that israel's always in a state
01:28:43.480
of war because they're always getting attacked right people are always shooting missiles in in
01:28:46.680
there that's why they have the iron dome and everything else like that the point i'm trying
01:28:49.240
to make is that's not true all that way that people are always shooting no the palestines
01:28:52.600
from the gaza strip might have passed like the year 2000 but prior to that there weren't always
01:28:56.200
people just shooting random things like this is a huge escalation expelling the un peacekeeper troops
01:29:01.080
and starting to deploy military across the sinai was a big explanation uh um explanation escalation of
01:29:06.520
stuff and this was literally what it just caused the prior war so the assumption was that oh well
01:29:10.280
i guess they're about to invade again well again who started the war it wasn't the arabs you can
01:29:14.280
say that they postured all day but did they start the war they didn't it was the israelis that started
01:29:17.560
the war on 60 on 1967 so what i'm trying to say is that again the the debate is who is a bigger
01:29:24.360
obstacle to peace i would argue the israelis because again they get they went they win they
01:29:29.320
start the war they win the war fair then they don't address the palestinian issue they write the
01:29:34.680
the um the u.n how would they have addressed the palestinian issue what would they have said or done
01:29:38.760
they had a right to return that had been agreed upon before that where with the
01:29:41.560
u.n no there was absolutely no agreement before that the right of return had the right of return
01:29:45.480
had existed before that and they they completely ignored it in this uh in 242 no they completely
01:29:50.280
ignored it existed before that prior to this we have what the the armanian genocide the expulsion
01:29:53.640
of some million some greeks from turkey what do you mean right of return had been agreed
01:29:56.600
upon no this is absolutely not the case there was a palestinian right of return after the nakba
01:30:01.160
there was the right of return the 242 didn't address it whatsoever again my there was no right of
01:30:06.600
return after the i don't know what you're talking about there's no right of return that was
01:30:09.160
guaranteed by any international or domestic people here i'll get it free real quick i had it written
01:30:13.960
down real fast yeah u.n general assembly 194 does that call for a right of return or does that just
01:30:21.720
say adjust resolution to the uh that is that is that is that addresses the palestinians right to return
01:30:28.440
u.n general assembly 194 again what i'm arguing here is i'm arguing that the pal the israelis are a
01:30:36.040
bigger obstacle to peace than the palestinians and my argument when it comes to the 1967 war
01:30:41.560
is they ambiguously wrote the uh the document not including the territories they didn't acknowledge
01:30:46.920
the palestinians whatsoever they just left it as like kind of a refugee problem versus the people
01:30:51.080
that were originally there being displaced they didn't give a shit about them they didn't acknowledge
01:30:54.280
the right to return whatsoever um and then they were procuring okay and then they're procuring a
01:30:58.040
nuclear bomb which is not going to help at all so the language here is refugees wishing to return
01:31:02.280
to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the
01:31:04.920
earliest practicable date and that the compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing
01:31:08.760
not to return and for a lot so this wasn't just about palestinians there were also jews that were
01:31:12.280
expelled from the west bank when that war happened as well they weren't allowed back nobody was allowing
01:31:15.480
anybody back all of these territories were in conflict with each other the majority of the
01:31:19.080
people that were displaced were overwhelming the palestinians we're talking about almost a million
01:31:22.440
people yeah sure well like so yeah but yeah but that's because the israeli side won
01:31:29.080
but there were some i think it was less it might have been less than a hundred thousand again but
01:31:32.920
there were jews that were um display it doesn't matter with the number nobody was seeking to
01:31:36.920
figure out this quote-unquote refugee problem all of these territories were so actively at war with
01:31:40.760
each other we're referring to the 1967 right i'm arguing that the israelis i think are a bigger
01:31:47.960
obstacle to peace than the palestinians and that was my arguments for 1967. once again ambiguous
01:31:53.400
for writing the document not addressing the palestinians the right to return um uh procuring the
01:31:58.520
nuclear bomb in the middle of all of this right illegally by the way doing it by stealing from
01:32:02.760
the united states which is a whole other uh huge provocation because of procuring a nuclear bomb
01:32:06.760
is obviously going to escalate things to a whole other level everybody around the world was like
01:32:10.200
doing research on like procure like this is when a lot of people around the world were procuring
01:32:13.400
nuclear weapons britain and france did their research for it um the israel did it largely with
01:32:17.800
conjunction of south africa procuring a nuclear bomb india and pakistan were starting like their
01:32:22.440
research project yeah everybody was trying to get because it was sure but procuring a nuclear bomb
01:32:27.000
by stealing from your greatest ally and then uh obviously subverting the president before and
01:32:31.960
getting somebody just allied the united states wasn't a huge ally to israel until like 73.
01:32:37.400
no we were we were absolutely giving them quite a bit of money with during even during the
01:32:41.000
kennedy administration and they were lying to us ben-gurion was lying to kennedy all over the place
01:32:45.160
so they were betraying one of their greatest allies yeah we're allies with israel we definitely were
01:32:49.480
giving them aid even back then in the 60s we weren't as great as the linda b johnson started the
01:32:53.960
cucking for israel but kennedy was a supporter of the israelis and he wanted to have some type of
01:32:59.000
two-state and peaceful solution with the arabs and with the israelis obviously got killed before
01:33:02.680
he can do that but um just to be clear marin i think uh the us sent uh sold israel's first
01:33:08.440
offensive weapon in 1958 sure but they should not have that but they were not allowed to have nuclear
01:33:13.720
weapons and they were getting them illegally uh against kennedy's will the united states did not
01:33:19.560
provide significant aid to israel until i think it was like yeah until yeah until linda b johnson
01:33:25.320
came in that's when we started cucking for israel yes you're you're right but what i'm trying to
01:33:28.680
explain here is they went ahead and got a nuclear weapon illegally by stealing from us who were their
01:33:33.880
allies and knowing that that would escalate tensions in the region by getting a nuclear bomb
01:33:39.480
couldn't they have also got that because they wanted some safety and security knowing that they
01:33:42.680
wouldn't be destroyed by all of the surrounding arab states uh no because because the them having a
01:33:47.800
nuclear bomb was so that they can basically do what they wanted to do the whole time since the
01:33:52.280
days of bengurian which was take over the entire region and have a nuclear bomb nothing literally
01:33:57.560
nothing that you're saying is making any sense you're saying that it's inconceivable that they
01:34:02.200
would have wanted a nuclear bomb to keep their state safe you're saying instead they got one for
01:34:05.640
offensive purposes after they got a nuclear bomb they gave land back to the arabs and made more peace
01:34:10.680
with the arabs so their entire plan worked backwards nothing that you're saying is causally
01:34:14.280
connected to anything if what you were saying was true prospectively after they got the nuclear
01:34:17.640
bomb they should have captured cairo they should have gone north to lebanon and take a beirut or
01:34:21.160
they should have you know crossed the the river and taken uh you know more of jordan or they should
01:34:24.840
have gone and expanded their territory in the golden heights they didn't do any of this they
01:34:27.960
lost their territory receded after they acquired a nuclear bomb so it seems like it's working exactly
01:34:31.640
the opposite but somehow you can still explain the same behavioral pattern i don't understand that at
01:34:34.840
all yes because here's the thing um the united states basically forced them to play nice with
01:34:40.680
the egyptians with jimmy carter and is is getting the cam david accords in 1978 because again we didn't
01:34:46.200
want to foot the bill for their recklessness obviously why would we have to foot the bill
01:34:49.560
for anything we could just let them fight and it wasn't at the it wasn't i don't think it was i
01:34:53.400
think it was sadat that was pushing for peace um more so than anybody in the united states i think
01:34:59.160
the united states eventually became a mediator or a facilitator um under carter more than anything
01:35:03.400
else well yes we facilitated but at the same time we didn't want to foot the bill for all their wars
01:35:07.240
because obviously had been creating quite a bit of issues and then also the yom kippur war was a very
01:35:11.720
close call we don't want to foot the bill for their wars we were literally doing this all over the
01:35:14.840
world it was the cold war time we were doing this all over south america we were already you know
01:35:18.600
helping like mujahideen in the middle east um in afghanistan like we were putting the bill everywhere
01:35:25.320
even even more so not wanting to foot the bill because again when it comes to egypt and jordan
01:35:30.200
they're in strategically good positions where hey you know what you should be allies with them so that
01:35:34.120
we don't have to necessarily put the bill where these guys constantly have to defend themselves also
01:35:37.720
the other thing you got to keep in mind was the yom kippur war in 1973 where they threatened to use
01:35:42.280
a nuclear bomb so that was another reason why we needed to i don't think they ever nobody threatened
01:35:46.680
israel threatened to use nuclear bomb yes yes yeah they absolutely on him goldemeier literally called
01:35:53.480
nixon and said if you don't give us an airlift we are going to drop a nuclear bomb on these guys as
01:35:57.240
they're invading us because they were going to lose the yom kippur war everybody knows this nixon
01:36:01.240
literally got nuclear blackmailed with the nuclear bombs by the way that they illegally stole from us and
01:36:05.800
want to make that very clear these nuclear weapons that they got they got them from us and they stole
01:36:09.320
them from us okay against john f kennedy so nixon said yo we got to do this and he basically gave
01:36:15.160
them the biggest airlift ever so they can win the war otherwise it would have lost so what i'm saying
01:36:20.040
is that the israelis the israelis not only what was that where do you find that where's the source for
01:36:25.160
that that that israel threatened look look look it up look it up goldemeier uh yom kippur war she was
01:36:31.400
absolutely going to use the nuclear bomb against the arabs because they were losing it's 100 that's a fact
01:36:36.840
because they were losing is a lot different than because they were threatening to nuke somebody
01:36:41.000
yeah they were losing the war and they were going to use the nuclear bomb yeah i think they were
01:36:45.240
internally considering that but i don't think that that's what made the us cave that's helping
01:36:49.560
that's 100 why the us cave they did not want them to drop a nuclear bomb so you're saying that if israel
01:36:53.800
didn't have a nuclear bomb at that point that the united states would have just watched the entire
01:36:57.320
middle east be ran by the soviet we we would not have we would not have given them the aid as quickly
01:37:02.360
because kissinger at the time uh no no no no hold on you're saying the united states would have
01:37:06.760
watched israel collapse yeah and then you're saying you're saying the us would have watched israel be
01:37:10.440
completely destroyed in the middle east and just ceded that whole region to the soviets
01:37:14.840
there's a good chance yeah because henry kissinger did not want to get involved involved in the afghan
01:37:18.920
civil war then why were we supplying so much and doing so much training and everything to the
01:37:22.280
for the mujahideen or other places in the middle east well again they were osama bin laden was had a
01:37:28.440
very capable rebel force where he was fighting we were giving him weapons and money and
01:37:31.560
shit like that but keep in mind osama bin laden was a multi multi-millionaire his family were
01:37:35.960
billionaires in in in saudi arabia they built up the entire infrastructure so he was very well
01:37:41.080
equipped to handle things on his own yes we gave some aid and support and everything else like that
01:37:44.120
but we didn't need to give him the same amount of help as the israelis and again it's very important
01:37:48.280
for you guys to understand the israelis got the nuclear weapon by stealing the technology from us
01:37:53.720
against the will of a former u.s president that's a problem that's a big problem so just to recap
01:37:59.560
you're saying that the reason why the us in the 1973 war i presume we're going to that one now
01:38:04.680
uh the reason why they gave 2.2 billion dollars worth of aid to israel and that they called death
01:38:09.640
con 3 um against the ussr was just because israel threatened them with a nuclear bomb they were
01:38:16.600
going to drop a nuclear bomb on their enemies and that was a big problem because obviously yeah that
01:38:21.560
would be a big escalation and nixon could not afford that so he gave that he gave uh goldemaier the aid that
01:38:27.080
she wanted and uh that's what ended up happening that's how they won the yam kippur war they were
01:38:31.480
going to lose but i i wasn't even gonna but again i'm using the the only reason i'm even bringing up
01:38:37.960
the yam kippur war is because i'm making the argument that the israelis don't do any they're
01:38:42.840
the bigger brokers of chaos uh and they they don't negotiate for peace whatsoever and i'm using the
01:38:47.960
nuclear bomb them getting a nuclear bomb right in 1967 created instability throughout the region is
01:38:54.280
what i'm trying to say because my argument is that do they no one do you not think they want
01:38:58.760
peace as a country um no no not right now i think what they want is a hegemony and they're going to
01:39:05.000
do whatever they need to do to get that hegemony to include stealing the nuclear weapons and running
01:39:09.560
their cowboy foreign policy we could fast forward to now if you want but um but this one i was going
01:39:15.000
to go into the oslo accords next because the camp david accords post 73 what's like a more stable if
01:39:20.520
israel is causing chaos or israel is like a chaotic country who is a more stable country to look towards
01:39:25.400
like after 73 besides israel like isn't israel one of the more stable countries in the middle east
01:39:33.000
well again they're they're stable because they've done uh they've stolen nuclear technology from us and
01:39:38.280
they've called you know they they get aid from us like that's why israel would not exist without the
01:39:43.400
united states at all they'd be overtaken immediately much the same they i mean the the um the soviet
01:39:50.840
backed arab states would have probably all been even more annihilated by israel prior to any use
01:39:55.080
involvement with the soviets weren't backing them no i mean yes you know that's i we don't know
01:40:01.720
because that's like you know who knows right but the point of my argument is simply that i don't i think
01:40:08.200
again i'm not saying arab worlds is is perfect guys i'm not saying arab world don't create problems and
01:40:12.840
that they're not broke that they're bad brokers of peace too i my argument the argument i'm making
01:40:17.960
is that the israelis are a far bigger obstacle to peace than anywhere in the arab world uh even
01:40:24.520
though we go and blame the arab world for all the problems but we never actually look at the documents
01:40:28.600
we don't look at what israel does behind the scenes i mean you guys didn't even know that they illegally
01:40:31.800
got a nuclear weapon and this is on purpose i don't want you guys to know this stuff i've heard that
01:40:35.640
claim but like most of their testing and everything was with south africa what are you claiming exactly
01:40:38.840
that they stole from the us okay so the weapon the technology or the uranium or what yeah yeah
01:40:43.240
they stole uranium they uh they were they were building a nuclear program uh against the wishes
01:40:48.200
of john f kennedy john f kennedy told them multiple times in terms of what they stole you said so they
01:40:51.880
stole all the enriched uranium they stole from the united states they saw enriched uranium from the
01:40:56.040
united states and then on top of that kennedy knew that they're running a nuclear program and he told
01:40:59.720
them you guys got to stop we need inspections and uh ben-gurion lied to him he even made a fake nuclear
01:41:04.280
panel um for inspection kenny found out and he got pissed off and his brother was trying to get
01:41:09.080
the zionist organization which is now apac to register other people around the world were also
01:41:13.160
pursuing nuclear programs it wasn't just israel right a lot of people in the cold war were
01:41:16.440
pursuing nuclear programs we didn't really want anybody to but people were and we didn't stop them
01:41:19.960
fucking pakistan has has nuclear weapons right more people but here's the difference than pakistan
01:41:24.280
but fair here's here's the difference though here's the difference we were giving them aid so
01:41:28.520
kennedy told them if you guys keep building your nuclear program we are going to stop giving you aid
01:41:32.920
and guess what happened ben-gurion resigned the the first prime minister of israel resigned to buy
01:41:38.440
himself more time wait resigned in what year uh this is 1960 yeah uh i think in 67 i think ben-gurion
01:41:47.000
was still the prime minister yeah i think yeah i think he might have resigned that year afterwards
01:41:50.600
did he resign or did he just not run for pm again he was he completely left he completely left because
01:41:56.680
the the um yeah he left because uh kennedy was putting pressure on him and he needed more time
01:42:06.440
well kenny was dead by 63 but um this this might have been we weren't giving them much aid under
01:42:13.000
kennedy how much was we giving israel we were given 63 we were giving them quite a bit and then we
01:42:17.400
upped it even more once uh lynda b johnson came in lynda b johnson was the beginning i would have to
01:42:22.120
see i don't think we were given that much aid i don't think it was until 1970 that we started to
01:42:25.480
uh and then really 73 lynda b johnson lynda b johnson was the beginning of the ushering of the super pro
01:42:31.160
israel uh foreign policy that we have he basically made the guys on the us's liberty sign gag orders
01:42:35.960
even though they had attacked us and that was an act of war he like doubled or tripled the foreign
01:42:41.000
aid to israel um his family one of his aunts was a founding member of the adl my claim is i don't
01:42:46.280
think we were giving to give an aid prior to 1970 we don't know there's a place i can look this up we
01:42:50.040
were this like can i look because if i google anything about aid to israel we were giving them
01:42:53.640
started in 1970 we were 100 we were giving them aid because that is precisely why ben-gurion stepped down
01:42:58.600
because kennedy said if you know law if you do not comply with these nuclear inspections we are
01:43:03.960
going to um our our aid of us giving you aid is going to be significantly impacted basically he said
01:43:10.120
what he basically told him is we're going to stop giving you aid he wrote worded it much nicer than
01:43:13.160
that i think i don't have gone around the nuclear but it's probably best to just yeah my argument the
01:43:18.040
whole nuclear angle the only reason i'm even bringing up the nuclear bomb is that what i'm saying is that
01:43:22.120
the israelis are willing to backstab allies to illegally get a nuclear bomb to conduct and and
01:43:28.440
or what they say oh to protect ourselves but no it's so that they could be more aggressive look at
01:43:32.200
how more aggressive israel's been since getting the nuclear bomb but let's go into we go into the
01:43:37.080
camp david accords i'm going to you know that was for egypt and and uh and and egypt and israel to
01:43:43.400
have peace basically when i can't begin and so that i don't count that sure we could fast forward
01:43:47.240
there's so many little things here like that we were just like completely indifferent at this
01:43:50.360
point that's fine you want to go to like the apollo affair didn't happen when we were strong allies
01:43:54.280
with israel it was in 65 so this we wouldn't have been considered strong allies at that point we
01:43:57.640
weren't giving them a ton of money at that point um we're still giving them quite a bit though we're
01:44:01.240
still giving them a lot that's true no i know we weren't we weren't um yeah we weren't so like
01:44:07.480
enough for ben-gurion to resign it was that much aid that he had that he resigned that's significant
01:44:12.920
we're talking about the first prime minister of israel claim you're making that he resigned so that they
01:44:16.920
would investigate but they couldn't find the nukes anyway or it's simple kennedy told ben-gurion
01:44:21.800
we know that you have a nuclear program he wrote a bunch of fear a flurry of angry letters at him
01:44:26.440
saying we know that you have a nuclear weapon and uh we need to do nuclear testing ben-gurion stalled
01:44:32.600
first he denied then he said okay you can come uh inspect they send inspectors over there it's
01:44:37.080
a fake nuclear panel not real whatsoever they make a whole fake thing so kennedy is like okay uh
01:44:43.640
we are not going to give you aid anymore if you guys don't comply with these nuclear inspections
01:44:47.080
what did ben-gurion do he resigns why would that matter for him resigning how would that prevent
01:44:52.600
nuclear inspection um because because what ended up happening was when in the interim while they're
01:44:57.400
trying to find a new pm that bought him time to get a replacement so they can continue the
01:45:01.800
nuclear program it's not like they didn't have a prime minister for years after he resigned he would
01:45:06.840
choose a successor which eshkol after whatever the idea like why wouldn't they just do the inspection
01:45:11.160
right after this doesn't make any sense because he thinks that they're going to glue inspect so he
01:45:14.200
just pushes the resign button and then they went like 100 free turns he he he literally left so
01:45:19.000
that his replacement would be like oh i'm not familiar what's going on john please aware of me
01:45:23.640
of course kennedy got killed later on right so they didn't really get to finish this but the reason why
01:45:27.960
he did that remember bro this is the 60s they're writing telegrams to each other right so for this
01:45:32.280
bought him a significant amount of time if he was a telegram isn't that electronic it's not like
01:45:36.040
telegrams are taking years or whatever to get no it took it took time to get over there they didn't have
01:45:40.600
a way to pick up a there were no phones in 1960 they didn't have phones in the 60s and 50s it's
01:45:45.560
classified got it there's classified documents they have to write in a different way
01:45:52.520
you can look it up bro i'm like yo this kennedy thing is like instantaneously communicate with
01:45:57.640
each other i don't think that it i don't think there'll be weeks and that's fine the point the
01:46:01.000
point is is that ben gureen resigned when he got pressure to have nuclear inspections
01:46:05.480
that's the bottom line okay i mean i i mean i disagree i don't we can try to move on from this
01:46:12.440
fact sure we're just gonna go around yeah that's fine steven wait should we go into that or should
01:46:17.560
we go into the camp david occult um okay yeah we can go uh no uh camp david i was going to skip
01:46:22.440
because that's just a peace treaty between egypt and and um and israel the title of the debate is
01:46:27.320
who's a big obstacle to peace wouldn't it then doing a peace deal with egypt show that they do well i'm
01:46:32.360
i'm i'm i'm referring i'm referring to the palestinians in this case when yeah because
01:46:35.960
they because they completely yes they made peace with egypt but they made peace with egypt from
01:46:40.200
a strategic position which you can you can make the argument oh well my and everything is done
01:46:43.320
strategically fair but they completely ignored the palestinians and the camp david accords
01:46:47.240
are often utilized as a um as as a as a peace plan where they say look the palestinians rejected this
01:46:53.480
too they rejected every single peace plan they rejected the peel commission they rejected the 47
01:46:57.160
partition they rejected the 67 they reject and they use the camp david accords even though it's not
01:47:02.360
the palestinians aren't even mentioning no one here is yeah no one here is claiming that yeah
01:47:06.120
yeah no not you guys but i'm saying in general like other zionists i've debated have tried to
01:47:10.440
say that on me that like oh yeah they rejected the 78 uh camp david accords i'm like dude the
01:47:14.760
palestinians weren't even involved in that discussion whatsoever and then on top of that i would argue
01:47:19.480
that the israelis did that because they knew that the egyptians were a powerful ally of the palestinians
01:47:24.120
right in the arab world and that would create even more problems because like there's no way that they
01:47:28.040
didn't foresee okay if we go ahead and we do this with the egyptians that this isn't going to
01:47:32.120
create issues as well because what we saw later on if you fast forward to 2020 was the israelis
01:47:37.640
doing this where they're you know circumventing the palestinians with the abraham accords that led
01:47:41.880
directly to october 7th so on one side they say oh look we're doing peace we're we're negotiating with
01:47:47.480
these arab countries but they never answer the palestinian question and that's that's what i'm
01:47:51.160
trying to say they never had an intention on on a two-state solution making peace with palestinians
01:47:55.720
giving them the right to their right um the self-determination any type of sovereignty they
01:48:00.680
circumvented it every single way whether it's doing side deals with other countries whatever
01:48:05.480
do you think that they offered in to egypt that part of the camp david accords to keep gaza they
01:48:09.960
offered it to got to egypt and egypt said no does that make any difference to you or not really
01:48:15.480
no because um they my argument is that they don't really care about doing anything for the palestinians
01:48:20.600
they want to get them out of there and i think what we have proof of that now i think i'm being
01:48:23.800
vindicated because they're getting the gazas out of there now they're trying to do an ethnic cleansing
01:48:27.240
right now as we speak they bomb qatar who was the negotiators they because they don't care about
01:48:31.720
necessarily doing peace they're like oh you know what let's go ahead and invade the sovereignty of
01:48:35.480
qatar who's one of the middlemen and bomb these hamas guys right and and and not even get them and
01:48:40.440
look like idiots in the world stage and make ourselves look bad in front of uae suda arabia
01:48:45.400
qatar make the gulf states question our our um you know our our alliance or potentially joining the
01:48:50.920
abraham accords later on because saudi arabia is going to actually join the abraham accords
01:48:54.040
so there's just so much um there's just so many things that the israelis have done to sabotage
01:48:59.240
but we can go into the oslo of course i can give my position on that one yeah steven are you happy to
01:49:02.760
move on to also i mean i guess but we're like totally different we don't have to agree steven
01:49:08.600
i mean it's for the people like you gave your arguments i gave mine people can agree or disagree
01:49:12.360
i'm sure your audience might say what the hell my audience might say what the hell it's fine
01:49:17.160
um but we don't have to agree and that's that's totally cool i guess like broadly speaking
01:49:21.080
go ahead is there a single like peace agreement that has been presented to israel that's on the
01:49:27.240
table to solve like the palestinian problem that like israel has rejected during negotiations you
01:49:33.320
mean the palace the closest you mean the one that like the palestinian rejected that could have done
01:49:36.600
something you mean like any like where palestinians like this is what we want and then we will accept
01:49:40.520
peace during any negotiation ever i think the oslo accords and the um 2002 arab summit air peace
01:49:48.200
initiative well so the two so that so the oslo accords were never going to be that was never a
01:49:52.680
peace a great agreement that was just like a framework to kind of move in the direction of
01:49:56.680
hopefully figuring stuff out so the oslo accords happened and also too happened the arab peace
01:50:01.640
initiative is just that's not like a formal agreement that's just the arab states are like oh like yeah
01:50:05.640
all of us are coming together and hoping that something works out the israelis didn't want want to do
01:50:08.840
that either because they never wanted peace with they never wanted my i don't even know the arab
01:50:12.840
peace and if you don't mean anything it's just like a general statement of things but nobody knows
01:50:16.840
because nobody wants to touch the refugee question on the palestinian side nobody will negotiate
01:50:20.520
perfect and i avoided it intentionally over and over again and i and i'm really glad that you
01:50:23.800
mentioned that and that is that is that because here's the thing if you notice when i make the
01:50:27.880
argument that um israelis are a bigger obstacle to peace notice how um i'm saying a bigger obstacle
01:50:33.560
to peace especially when it comes to the palestinians because here's the problem until the palestinians
01:50:39.080
either a get their own state or get absorbed into israel and get some type of freedom and get the
01:50:42.680
rights of self-determination there is never going to be peace in the middle east so if this
01:50:46.440
palestinian question is not answered there's going to continuously be warfare and israel will never
01:50:50.680
have peace that's the cold hard reality their world is never going to rest the muslim world is never
01:50:54.600
going to rest until the palestinians have some level of sovereignty so notice how i bring everything
01:50:59.240
back always to they circumvent the palestinians they don't deal with the palestinians let's deal
01:51:02.920
with the egyptians here let's deal with the bahrain over here let's deal with uae that doesn't
01:51:06.440
fucking matter until they deal with the palestinian question which netanyahu has done everything in his
01:51:10.600
power to avoid since the oslo accords which i was going to get into here i do think the oslo accords was the
01:51:15.160
closest we ever came to something even though it's still bullshit but at least like you said
01:51:18.680
destiny it created the framework for us to potentially get somewhere but what did the
01:51:22.440
israelis do well let's go over the oslo accords real quick then i'll talk about what the israelis
01:51:25.800
did and then you can give me your rebuttal to it but basically the 93 oslo accords right between
01:51:30.040
yitzhak rabin and uh and our boy uh yasser arafat um let's see here so basically arafat agreed he gave
01:51:39.320
them a bunch of things he recognized israel uh has the right to exist with peace and security which
01:51:43.960
was huge they had never gotten that before he accepted resolution 242 which is the the partition
01:51:49.160
plan and then he renounced violence furthest they've ever gotten all yitzhak rabin gave him
01:51:53.800
in exchange was recognize the plo as uh the reps of the palestinian people with no state or right to
01:51:59.400
self-determination they give them autonomy which we know is bullshit because the palestinian authority
01:52:04.680
who basically ran things was nothing more than a shinbet shell basically shinbet idf etc would use the
01:52:11.560
pa to collect information and then they would act as almost like a uh security force on behalf of
01:52:16.760
the israeli government and obviously this created a lot of issues because this is precisely why
01:52:20.840
hamas was able to rise because they're like yo these guys don't really care about the palestinians
01:52:24.840
these guys are literally working for the israelis and how do i know this even in israeli tv i watch
01:52:29.560
israeli television as much you guys might not know this i've seen the show fowda and fowda the israelis
01:52:35.320
even admit and show in their own television that the palestinian authority collaborates with them so why
01:52:39.880
the hell are the palestinians going to respect them or take them seriously it created a huge
01:52:42.840
rift which just was great for benjamin nanyahu later on because he was able to use that division
01:52:47.400
to his advantage because people didn't trust the palestinian authority so the problem with the
01:52:52.440
oslo accords was it was always to be revisited later right and while this was happening it being
01:52:58.040
revisited later the west bank is still expanding they're still taking territory the illegal settlements
01:53:02.600
are expanding so uh the other problem also with the oslo accords was
01:53:06.280
it fragmented the palestinian territory where it was never contiguous so what they would have to do
01:53:13.400
is they'd have to use these roads have all these checkpoints or whatever so they're never able to
01:53:17.320
actually establish any type of commerce with jordan they didn't control their borders they didn't
01:53:21.320
control their airspace they didn't control their resources the israelis controlled everything and
01:53:25.240
the illegal settlements continued to expand and then on top of that the only thing the oslo accords let
01:53:30.200
them have was a limited police force meanwhile the israelis and the settlers all had m4s they all had
01:53:35.880
rifles um and then they could reserve the right to go ahead and go into any of these territories the
01:53:39.720
a b and c territories which the israelis i think controlled uh c which is like 60 percent of the
01:53:44.040
west bank so it was bullshit man so um yes erif obviously accepted it and a lot of people got mad
01:53:49.880
and then even though they got this lopsided deal guess what happens yitzhak rabin who had signed this
01:53:54.200
lopsided deal which gave all them the advantage they couldn't even agree to that they killed him
01:53:58.840
the israelis killed him so the only chance what do you mean the israelis killed him it was it was a
01:54:04.040
it was a soul murderer yes a member of the lakud party which is a big representation which is running
01:54:09.720
israel right now literally assassinated yitzhak rabin so the only the lakud party didn't do it
01:54:16.120
it was a low and extremist member wasn't it no he was a member of the lakud party he was a 100
01:54:20.280
member of the lakud party and then the year after your boy benjamin and yahoo goes ahead and becomes
01:54:24.040
prime minister and to this day yitzhak rabin's wife thinks benjamin netanyahu is behind the murder
01:54:28.600
and honestly i'm not too surprised because what happened after yitzhak rabin got killed now the
01:54:33.080
clean break memo comes out now uh now the institute for um for foreign affairs comes out you got all
01:54:38.520
these neocons that come out and write up this paper about securing the realm then you got the rise of
01:54:42.520
the pnac etc so with with with yitzhak rabin being killed the oslo accords died alongside him and then
01:54:48.520
netanyahu comes in and what did he do he's caught in the fucking village in the west bank talking
01:54:52.840
about how he sabotaged the oslo accords how there's never going to be a peace a two-state solution
01:54:56.760
how the palestinians are never going to have any type of sovereignty he said it today after
01:55:00.520
the uh brits and the australians recognized uh palestinian state he said they'll never get
01:55:04.200
to be a palestinian state obviously he did it in hebrew he did it in the israeli media but the point
01:55:08.040
is this yitzhak rabin came the closest to having any type of deal even though the palestinians didn't
01:55:12.040
get for it all they got was basically a snitch force with the palestinian authority and then on top of
01:55:16.280
that for him doing that he got assassinated by the lakud party and then benjamin netanyahu took over the
01:55:20.600
oslo accords were the closest and they killed him even for that so the israelis have no intention
01:55:25.240
whatsoever of having peace the one guy that came an inch closer to peace they fucking killed him
01:55:32.600
steven you've got a lot to respond to yeah i mean it's we're just in totally different reality so
01:55:37.080
the oslo accords were never supposed to be the the final settlement i think that people were inspired
01:55:41.720
after the peace meal deal that had been made with egypt in terms of giving back the sinai and then
01:55:45.320
peace by peace eventually israel had achieved like a formal peace with egypt um sadat was also
01:55:50.680
assassinated after that peace deal had been reached by the way um um um i also had nothing to do egypt
01:56:00.040
i didn't say that but i'm sadat was assassinated after uh he had agreed formally to peace with with
01:56:05.000
israel um some people theorize that the guy that killed him was because again like a lot of people
01:56:09.880
that are you know dug in on wanting to fight forever between arabs and jews don't like it when when
01:56:14.040
people make peace deals here's the difference the camp david accords did not die with sadat
01:56:20.840
the oslo accords died with yitzhak rabin the oslo accords didn't necessarily die the oslo ii came
01:56:25.640
after the issue is that they never reached the final state but also you have an issue too where
01:56:29.640
the fact is arafat never really wanted to stop fighting the guy was a general the foundation of
01:56:33.720
the plo and arafat's popularity in the palestinian and larger arab world was that of a resistance fighter
01:56:38.760
the whole name and party that he'd carved out for himself um as long as all of the
01:56:42.680
the as well as all of the kind of like terrorist mini parties that were a part of the palestinian
01:56:46.280
liberation organization um the palestinian liberation fraud the palestinian defense
01:56:50.280
force the pflp the video for all these other or the dflp like these things like they were they
01:56:53.800
were fighters they were uh you know they were involved in plane hijackings around the world they
01:56:57.480
killed a couple of um jewish athletes in munich um you know this is what they did the uh the massad had
01:57:03.960
their stuff against the arabs the palestinians had their stuff against israel like yeah these guys
01:57:08.280
were at each other's throats constantly um during like the 60s and 70s as you move forward you get to
01:57:12.840
oslo one um which was 93 also two is 95 i think um you get uh you have some agreements but these are
01:57:20.440
just like larger frameworks that is hopefully going towards palestinians having an independent state
01:57:26.120
now the most noteworthy thing was the creation of the palestinian authority which was an actual
01:57:29.480
official palestinian government now yes there is the propaganda line that you're giving that they're
01:57:33.160
they're just security subcontractors for israel that's the line that everybody who is incentivized
01:57:37.800
into having infinite conflict between both sides will take though arabs will look at the palestinian
01:57:41.320
authority and go oh they're a security subcontractor uh jews will look at the palestinian authority
01:57:45.240
and go oh the pa well they're part of the um you know basically ran by the plo they have the martyr
01:57:49.880
fund they pay uh shahids and everybody else to go and kill themselves but they have no sovereignty
01:57:53.640
jewish people anyways there there was no sovereignty yet they're on their way they have technically they
01:57:57.720
have some kind of sovereignty over area a area b is your connective areas that i think still have
01:58:02.040
israeli security involved in an area c are mainly your green line settlements on the west but um
01:58:07.640
it was it was supposed to be you know steps towards a peace process but the issue is arafat would never
01:58:13.240
ever ever ever agree to any peace ever because he would never list final terms or final settlements
01:58:18.120
or final agreements for what peace would look like now you can argue it was very simple what they wanted
01:58:22.040
terms of it was not very simple what they wanted they want a two-state solution and the right to
01:58:26.600
self-determination that's simple but the israelis would never let that happen what even what you just
01:58:30.760
say a two-state solution what do you do with israel there was never an agreement on what would happen
01:58:34.600
with no israel would exist the the the the i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry what would you do with
01:58:39.080
jerusalem and east jerusalem uh east jerusalem would be would be the capital for the palestinians
01:58:43.960
but the israelis would never agree to that that's what they wanted i'm telling you what they wanted
01:58:47.080
they wouldn't they might not have agreed to that because generally when east jerusalem is brought up in
01:58:50.040
talks arabs are not okay with jews visiting um the the western wall ever because uh arabs don't believe
01:58:56.120
that there was ever an old temple there so they would restrict access at every point in history
01:58:59.880
are you talking about the western wall or the mount i think i think it's the temple mount the
01:59:04.360
western i think you're i think you're talking about the mount where the lx mosque is the wall
01:59:09.240
the wailing wall they can go there of course that's where they go western wait that's where the western
01:59:12.520
wall is they're both there the but no arabs would not allow jews to go there because they don't believe
01:59:17.320
a temple they don't believe that's a western wall a last standing wall of some jewish temple they
01:59:20.600
refuse that any jewish temple there ever exists because even though people in the west are keen to argue
01:59:25.080
that uh well you know we're only going to run the clock on history since the ottomans were there that's not
01:59:29.480
true the arabs want to run the clock back indefinitely and they believe that it was always
01:59:32.840
arabs there there was no jewish temple there so they would never allow jews every time it's been
01:59:36.200
owned in history by arabs jews were not allowed to pray at the wailing wall that's only when israel
01:59:40.280
has been in control of it that um right now i think it's a jordanian uh whack or whatever that runs
01:59:45.160
it that allows jews you know to go to the wailing wall and yeah they go to alaska um yeah muslims
01:59:50.440
could pray but people could visit the the mount they could visit the mount they just can't pray
01:59:54.440
not not if the arabs not if the arabs controlled it so the the what would happen with east jerusalem
01:59:58.920
is is is not has never been settled that's never been put on paper number one number two the right
02:00:03.080
of return question has never been tackled by any arab leader um not by arafat uh not by mahmoud
02:00:09.240
abbas uh nobody has ever put a number on paper for how many people are allowed because the israelis
02:00:12.920
will never let it happen the israelis will never let it that here's the thing they want that because
02:00:16.680
there are five million refugees that that palestines argue should be allowed to return to israel
02:00:21.240
proper and they're never going to let that and i understand that i said that most refugees have
02:00:24.840
never even set foot in israel but a lot of the people that are considered refugees are people
02:00:28.040
that had full jordanian citizenship but they're still considered refugees even though they were
02:00:31.080
made full citizens of jordan and live in jordan and have lived in jordan here's the thing over
02:00:34.360
two generations here's the thing i i said before at the top that the right of return you'll acknowledge
02:00:39.640
that palestinians have never put a number on paper that it seems like in their world five million
02:00:44.920
arabs have to be allowed to emigrate into israel proper and and have full citizenship there that
02:00:49.880
would make jews a minority in israel that's always part of the thing the unspoken thing in the
02:00:53.720
background that no palestinian leader has ever given up well yeah that's literally why i say
02:00:59.560
israel is an apartheid ethno state a supremacy that's fine but so but realistically that's a
02:01:04.280
non-starter that's never happening that jews are losing their state to arabs yes because they have to
02:01:09.000
they have to maintain the 80 percent uh majority yes i understand that not necessarily 80 but they have
02:01:12.920
to maintain some kind of jewish ethnic majority otherwise they feel like they'll probably be
02:01:16.280
yeah they'll feel like every other arab state yeah they'll feel like they'll get overrun or whatever
02:01:20.760
but look the the point i'm trying to make is here with um with the oslo accords in general um is that
02:01:26.280
yes i understand what you're saying you're saying the oslo accords were a framework to work towards
02:01:29.240
something my argument is even when they had that framework what did the israelis do i'm talking about
02:01:34.440
the israelis now i'm not just talking about yitzhak or bean or whatever sides fucked around both sides
02:01:39.480
fucked around there was still violence on the the arab side and there were still expansions of settlements
02:01:44.280
on the israelis side both sides accused each other of sabotaging the deal and both sides kind
02:01:47.880
of sort of you know but here's here but here's the difference though see what at least you meant
02:01:52.440
you mentioned sadat got killed the camp david of course didn't get killed alongside him they still
02:01:55.720
maintain peace to this day hell they even warned the egyptians even warned the israelis about october 7th
02:02:00.440
here's the difference when yitzhak rabin got killed because yitzhak rabin got killed for giving the
02:02:05.640
palestinians the p the palestinian authority he got killed for that and then nanyahu came in and
02:02:10.280
then sabotaged everything that's my point true the oslo accords are still active the
02:02:13.880
palestinian authority still exist there so yes they are area a b and c are still there
02:02:17.480
the palestinian authority still exists they did the division of haran and they moved most of the jews
02:02:21.560
out of there they they live in the h1 section but here's the problem so there's the redeployment
02:02:24.680
there yeah like the the oslo accords are still in effect but the oslo accords were just temporary
02:02:28.520
they were never supposed to be a final arrangement but that's my point that so it was a framework
02:02:32.520
towards something better to eventually get to a two-state solution and they killed the problem is
02:02:36.760
no they said but that is the definition of being an obstacle matter arafat never agreed to any final
02:02:41.560
deal anyways arafat could have agreed with netanyahu to something arafat could have agreed
02:02:45.080
um with a hill barack for something but they didn't they never did arafat never made any final
02:02:49.080
agreement ever because he always wanted to see the fighting continued no no no that's not true
02:02:53.160
because he wanted again all they wanted self-determination to stay solution east jerusalem
02:02:58.920
as the capital that's what the palestinians have always wanted pretty much okay now an infinite right
02:03:03.400
of return of five million refugees i didn't even mention i didn't even i didn't even say right
02:03:07.400
of return but that's what they want that's the problem no no no no no no no no even the right
02:03:11.640
of return they've bro a lot of them have given that up it's pre-67 borders pre-67 borders pre-67
02:03:17.480
borders is what they don't matter they don't care about the land that's not the important thing
02:03:21.000
the important thing is what to do with the holy landmarks especially in east jerusalem and what to
02:03:24.360
do with the palestinian right of return and then what sovereignty they have my point my point
02:03:29.000
here is remember the debate is who is the bigger obstacle to peace i'm saying when ria
02:03:34.600
yitzhak rabin tried to create a peace deal with the oslo courts which would work towards a two-state
02:03:39.480
solution that's what it was there for that's why yitzhak rabin uh so that's why uh arafat even came to
02:03:43.800
the table right was eventually to get some right of self-determination for the palestinians what did
02:03:49.240
they do they killed yitzhak rabin they killed them the israelis killed him and then they put in
02:03:53.800
yeah then now yeah you know who comes in power contentious region yeah a lot of people like to fight
02:03:57.480
there yeah but that but that but that is precisely my point the israelis are the bigger obstacles
02:04:01.560
of peace because even when the palestinians came in good faith with the oslo courts what did they
02:04:04.760
do they killed the guy that negotiated it and then then yo comes in and he admits on video i am here
02:04:09.400
to sabotage oslo courts they're never going to get a state but yeah the oslo courts but despite that
02:04:14.360
they still continued and they had another shot at peace five years later with um with yahud barack
02:04:19.080
but here's the problem and they didn't take that either the yahud barack we could talk about
02:04:22.440
that the 2000 camps that was bullshit too that was complete but that was even worse
02:04:26.280
let's move on to the clinton parameters in 2000 sure we can we can go into that but again yeah
02:04:31.160
i just want to be clear about this the debate here for me is about who is a bigger obstacle to peace
02:04:36.680
i agree that yitzhak rabin came in some degree with good faith even though he made almost no concessions
02:04:42.200
and then yeah yasser arafat came in and made a lot of concessions that's how i know he came in good
02:04:46.120
in good faith because he literally who came in and made a lot of concessions yasser arafat made way more
02:04:50.440
concessions he didn't make any consent what are you talking about they had no state they had nothing to concede
02:04:54.760
okay no he can see bro he literally conceded that israel has a right to exist okay and peace
02:05:00.360
and security that's huge these are words on paper and then he goes to universities he's making
02:05:04.280
speeches about strategically lying or whatever um when it comes to making deals with the with the
02:05:09.960
infidel or whatever like yeah he said things but the problem is like in the second intifada he never
02:05:13.640
denounced violence and violence continued and that was no huge things that that moved but okay but
02:05:17.640
that was after the oslo courts were sabotaged by netanyahu so the oslo courts were still in place
02:05:22.440
the palestinian authority still exists today area a b and c still exists today no they're not
02:05:25.880
sabotaged they're not gone they're still in place no he did sabotage them because what did he tell
02:05:29.240
what did he say oh i'm gonna destroy the oslo accords i'm not gonna make it work then palestinian
02:05:33.080
authority has no power because again it was a framework say that of course he said that he came
02:05:37.560
in right after the last guy who supported the oslo accords got assassinated of course he came in
02:05:40.920
saying he hated the oslo accords but there's still political realities you have to contend with in
02:05:44.760
israel he got him killed at that point on both sides he got him killed you have no proof of that
02:05:48.440
there's no evidence of that yisak rabin's wife to this day wrote a book i don't care what his wife
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said who cares what is that does she have some intelligence or some reason yeah like she's his
02:05:55.640
wife no he wrote a book and she literally said who killed my husband and the guy that killed him
02:06:00.680
was a lakud party guy who's out of the lakud party right now netanyahu sounds pretty fucking clear to me
02:06:04.920
who killed that being in a political party means that you were ordered by the party to kill somebody
02:06:08.680
the head of the part yes for sure yeah for sure now again with that said again yasser arafat conceded
02:06:16.040
israelis have a right to uh peace and security live to live in peace and security you recognize
02:06:20.040
israeli state which was huge no arab country had really done that yet besides the other ones
02:06:24.520
it did it didn't matter it did matter it did matter it didn't matter by that point jordan
02:06:28.440
and egypt had already formally signed peace treaties because they're getting paid at that
02:06:31.080
point we're done they're getting paid that's why because they're done fighting and they don't
02:06:33.720
want to fight with israel anymore they recognize they're going to be there there's nothing else they
02:06:35.880
can do about it they they they got they were getting paid they're getting they're literally bought
02:06:39.320
off by the americans that's why they did that now but for your free ass arafat he comes in hey we're
02:06:43.800
going to recognize you guys we're going to give you guys peace and we're going to denounce violence
02:06:46.760
that was huge for a palestinian but he didn't do that violence no he did but here's the thing
02:06:51.160
he literally did it he actually did it through the whole second intifada everybody's looking to
02:06:54.680
arafat to call down the violence and he didn't he refused to do so the second intifada started
02:06:58.680
because the israelis didn't fucking honor the ozlo accords at all so because here's the thing
02:07:03.400
you're you're going to the bot you're going to the end here saying intifada intifada but how did we get
02:07:07.400
there okay 1993 they signed the ozlo accords they're right there in the white house and everything else
02:07:11.560
like that yasser arafat makes big concessions hey israel we're going to recognize the state
02:07:15.640
i denounce violence and you guys have the right to exist with peace and security huge all yitz
02:07:19.880
agrabin did was say okay well we'll recognize the palestinian authority uh over the palestinian
02:07:24.200
people but no sovereignty no two-state solution no nothing okay some limited autonomy so i would
02:07:29.560
argue that the palestinians came in way better faith because they conceded more hold on hold on
02:07:34.040
let me finish zero autonomy up to that point that was the that was the big concession that was a huge deal
02:07:38.120
let me let me finish my point so they go ahead and they may and they um and they make this agreement
02:07:42.200
right then yitz agrabin gets killed like a year later so his successor comes in takes everything
02:07:48.360
away sabotage the oslo accords palestinian authorities the shell of itself it's basically
02:07:52.520
being used as a collaborator force for the shin bet etc so look he came in wanting to work with yitz
02:07:58.040
agrabin and then the that same government kills him what are you going to do if you're yasser arafat
02:08:02.280
the guy that you did a deal with literally gets killed by the other party are you going to do
02:08:06.680
diplomacy no of course there's going to be an antifada because they didn't negotiate in good
02:08:09.800
faith they killed them they killed them dude what it's not like we just ended up at an antifada
02:08:14.040
for no reason there was a reason why there was an antifada they killed the negotiator which israel
02:08:18.040
always does they always kill the negotiators they kill ishma haneya they try to bomb the they
02:08:21.960
bomb the uh qatar right they've killed so many negotiators they they always do this
02:08:27.240
haneya is our negotiator the head of the of hamas he was the head negotiator and the political
02:08:31.640
wing when they killed the head of the other power bureau which is the head of hamas yeah no he was not
02:08:35.480
killed because he was negotiator he was a negotiator negotiate anything bro are you serious
02:08:40.360
you're gonna say ishma haneya was not the head negotiator yes he was the head of the political
02:08:43.640
party he was the head of hamas he was the head of the political party and he was the head negotiator
02:08:46.760
when they killed him yeah he because he was the head of the government that they were fighting with
02:08:50.600
yes he was the head of the political wing and the head negotiator and they assassinated him the
02:08:54.920
leader of the group that was they were fighting with yes so israel does this all the time they kill
02:08:59.640
they assassinate people that they're negotiating with or they start wars when they're negotiating like
02:09:16.880
Should we just go back to the Oslo Accords first?
02:09:20.300
We're going to move on to the Camp David, right?
02:09:23.740
Because he's not going to go into the Oslo Accords.
02:09:27.000
I'll just ask you a quick question before we...
02:09:28.960
Sure, I mean, Oslo 2 happened under Netanyahu, right?
02:09:37.340
wanted to sabotage and destroy the Oslo Accords.
02:09:49.060
literally said that it would be a war of utter destruction
02:09:53.360
Like, yeah, politicians talk and they talk shit.
02:09:57.220
Netanyahu absolutely wants to see every single...
02:10:12.200
because Donald Trump is a massive Israeli dick-suck.
02:25:11.600
The international community's opinion here is not.
03:31:05.360
the Palestinians don't want to solve it either though