On today's show, Glenn Beck talks about the latest in the ongoing saga of the Black Lives Matter movement and how it has impacted the way we see law enforcement officers in the United States. He also talks about why we should all be worried about what s going to happen to the stock market and the Dow and the S&P 500.
00:03:29.560Let me talk to you a little bit about car shield.
00:03:31.460When the subject car repair comes up, I immediately go find something else to do immediately change topics.
00:03:38.980I don't know the first thing about car repair other than it's really expensive, especially if the car in question has fallen out of warranty.
00:03:47.560And that's when they get you when it comes to safeguarding your car against disasters that may come your way.
00:16:22.800Anyway, he wrote the op-ed, Send in the Troops.
00:16:27.240Senator Cotton wrote, not surprisingly, public opinion is on the side of law enforcement and law and order, not insurrectionalists.
00:16:36.380According to a recent poll, 58% of registered voters, including nearly half of Democrats, 37% of African Americans, would support cities calling in the military to address the protests and demonstrations that are in response to the death of George Floyd.
00:16:50.140That opinion may not appear often in chic salons, but widespread support for this fact.
00:16:56.060Nonetheless, the American people are not blind to injustices in our society, but they know the basic responsibility of government is to maintain public order and safety.
00:17:05.280Oh, the New York Times had to come out and immediately apologize.
00:17:10.300The editor's note was, I think, as long as the editorial, it didn't really say much, but I just want to give you highlights of it.
00:17:17.540After publication, this essay met strong criticism from many readers and many Times colleagues, prompting editors to review the piece and editing process.
00:17:27.280Based on our review, we've concluded that the essay fell short of our standards and should not have been published.
00:17:33.400Beyond the factual questions that were in there, the tone of the essay in places was needlessly harsh and falls short of the thoughtful approach that advances useful debate.
00:17:45.420Oh, OK, so more like the op-ed, my children, my children can be friends with white people.
00:17:55.900I don't know if they actually solve that one or my new vagina won't make me happy or the birthday letter to Karl Marx, something more based in reality, truth and not offensive.
00:18:09.440OK, OK, OK, I think I OK, I think I have it now.
00:18:13.440Now, besides the Republicans are racist and conservatives are too dumb to tell the truth from lies, the main critique that the New York Times activist journalist had about his article was that op-eds have a duty to truth behind the ideology.
00:18:34.900So what about the op-eds that have appeared in the New York Times in response to George Floyd's protests?
00:18:46.180You know, despite the previous hysteria about people staying indoors because of lockdown measures in America, protest is patriotic.
00:18:53.860Now, this one was posted by the editorial board on June 2nd as dozens of American cities burned down, you know, just for the hell of it.
00:19:03.020What did the New York Times have to say about the anti-lockdown protest just a month earlier?
00:19:08.720The right sends in the quacks by Paul Krugman or this one, the coronavirus and conservative mind,
00:19:15.040which paints conservatives as unhinged conspiracy theorists who blame COVID-19 on Hillary Clinton, which I hadn't heard and didn't think of.
00:19:23.880But that'd be kind of fun to noodle today.
00:19:28.140I could go on and on and on, but I don't need to because Tom Cotton is coming up in just a few minutes.
00:19:55.780Also, this time that we've had, this extra time, gives cyber criminals additional time to mine for your data.
00:20:01.760Uh, you know, a few years ago, 2016, the people who were doing, you know, cybercrime used false identities to steal at least $1.68 billion in tax revenue.
00:20:13.540And who says the government doesn't know how to manage its funds?
00:20:20.680Imagine what they can do now while we're all online and zoom in to each other.
00:20:25.220No one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses, but life luck and see the threats that you might miss on your own.
00:21:16.760His black rights group is now, according to him, mobilizing its base and aims to develop a highly trained military arm to challenge police brutality head on.
00:21:30.780Now, he just did an exclusive interview with somebody.
00:22:46.720These days, it seems like half the things are Wi-Fi capable or Bluetooth connected or both.
00:22:52.420It's not just the phones and tablets anymore.
00:22:54.060Your television, your refrigerator, even the little robot vacuum cleaner, all interconnect using the Internet.
00:23:00.640And that, of course, makes them, and therefore you, extremely vulnerable to cyber attacks.
00:23:05.760That electric cheese grater your kids are probably getting you for Father's Day.
00:23:09.900Man, that's great, kids, because I've been so tired grating that cheese just by hand.
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00:24:48.540I heard the New York Times today talking about how having a serious conversation with somebody about, well, so what happens when you get rid of the police in Minnesota?
00:24:58.080Well, you know, we don't know exactly yet, but we're going to work it out, and it's going to be great.
00:25:01.580I mean, we're talking about major U.S. cities just saying, I'm done with the police.
00:25:10.460Glenn, this is what happens when you have a newsroom, like the New York Times apparently does, or a city, like Minneapolis and its mayor, that are run by people who think the real world is a social justice seminar on a college campus.
00:25:31.900I mean, you literally have anarchy because there is no common authority to both enforce the law and be constrained by the law.
00:25:41.340That's what will happen in Minnesota or in some of these other major cities where the Democratic mayors and city councils are talking about slashing police budgets like in Los Angeles and New York.
00:25:51.240The police are what stand between civilization and anarchy.
00:25:56.080And we need police departments that are well-funded, well-resourced, well-trained.
00:26:25.920Look, Glenn, at what happened with the New York Times.
00:26:28.580So, as you said, the New York Times is in total meltdown and has suffered an internal collapse because its senior leaders decided to publish an opinion from a Republican senator that is shared by 58% of the American people.
00:26:45.540But apparently they view that as beyond the pale in the woke newsroom.
00:26:51.600Now, I would say that the senior leaders cravenly surrendered to the woke mob at the New York Times.
00:26:58.680On Wednesday of last week, they published my op-ed.
00:27:01.460On Thursday, they publicly defended it.
00:27:04.100On Friday, they renounced it after the mob demanded that.
00:27:08.760And then on Sunday, the owner of the New York Times fired the editorial page editor.
00:27:13.960I would say that he surrendered to the woke mob.
00:27:16.320But let's remember, this guy is a woke child himself.
00:27:52.180So, Glenn, the New York Times is making a fool of themselves.
00:27:56.320From A.G. Saltzberger all the way down to their, you know, young interns who were demanding heads on pikes because their editorial page editor had the audacity to publish an opinion with which they disagreed, although 58% of Americans agreed with it.
00:28:13.980Reporters from other newspapers, producers from television shows, or even reporters at the New York Times recognize that the New York Times has become a laughingstock and exposed itself for what it is, a far left-wing propaganda outfit.
00:28:31.000It couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people.
00:28:33.560Glenn, look at the replacement of the editorial page editor.
00:28:42.940But in the meantime, look at the note she sent out to her workers just a couple days ago.
00:28:49.820She said that if you see anything at all, anything that offends you or that concerns you, then just send me a text or email right away.
00:28:57.920I mean, she is telling grownups, people who should recognize they're not in a college campus, they're not in a social justice seminar, that they get trigger warnings at work.
00:29:07.780So they're not offended by microaggressions.
00:29:10.580I mean, this really is the language of campus children brought to the workforce when grownups should be able to say, look, you're not in a social justice seminar anymore.
00:29:20.340And when you're confronted with an opinion with which you disagree, the proper answer is to refute it with better arguments in return.
00:29:28.160It's not to curl up in the fetal position, demand trigger warnings, and say that the bad people that publish this opinion should be fired.
00:29:36.300And if you don't like it, you can quit.
00:29:39.100So tell me, they said that one of the problems is they had a real problem with your depiction, which was completely inaccurate, of the role of Antifa in the protests.
00:29:52.060Do you have any evidence at all that Antifa is playing any role in this?
00:29:58.400Well, I'll just say the attorney general has repeatedly pointed this out.
00:30:02.540And I don't know many peaceful protesters and demonstrators who take crowbars with them to marches.
00:30:07.840I don't think stacks of bricks get into the street by themselves, Glenn.
00:30:11.940Of course, there were agitators and extremists who hijacked and infiltrated, protected First Amendment protests for their own purposes.
00:30:22.880That was happening the weekend after last.
00:30:24.720And that's why you saw so much violence on the streets in places like Minneapolis and New York and Washington, D.C.
00:30:29.600Now, since the president demanded that the National Guard be on the scene in Washington, D.C., employed a lot of the specialized law enforcement units that are present around the seat of our national government,
00:30:41.460since some Democratic governors like Tim Walton, Minnesota, recognized that he had no choice but to call out the National Guard,
00:30:47.340that violence diminished significantly over the course of last week to the point where over this past weekend, it was almost all just protests and demonstrations.
00:30:55.980And that's because those agitators and extremists realized that the authorities were now on to their techniques and that they faced the risk of pushback from the police and ultimately arrest and charges.
00:31:06.840So I saw an interview with Attorney General Barr, and they asked him,
00:31:11.920Why haven't you made a single arrest yet of Antifa if you know that they were involved?
00:31:18.140And he said something pretty shocking, at least to me.
00:31:21.020He said, because we're tracking their funding, they're very well funded right now.
00:31:27.360He's not going after the guys on the streets.
00:31:32.000He's going after the most likely the white anti-capitalist socialists around the world that have tons of money that are funding these things.
00:31:45.820That's going to be a bombshell if he hits that, because there will be all kinds of connections to people we know.
00:31:55.380Glenn, that's the right way to approach a radical organization like Antifa, I'll say that.
00:32:02.480I don't want to get too far into the details of what may or may not be investigated and what techniques our federal government is using.
00:32:10.780But there's a long history of our federal government trying to identify informants within criminal organizations and conspiracies to roll them up and end up not just getting the put soldiers out on the street, but all the way up to the kingpins and the funders.
00:32:30.100That was how a U.S. grant took down the original version of the KKK in the 1870s.
00:32:37.740That's how we took down the mob in the 50s and 60s and 70s, drug gangs in the 80s and 90s, terrorist organizations over the last 20 years.
00:32:47.440The federal government has a long record of rolling up large organizations through careful investigative work and the use of informants and intelligence.
00:32:56.720And that's what we should be doing in Antifa right now.
00:32:59.100So, Senator, if you see how the Soviet Union after World War II flipped Czechoslovakia and Hungary and everything else, they did it without a shot being fired.
00:33:16.660And it really is the bottom-up, top-down, inside-out thing.
00:33:20.760You put communists in the government in a deep state, if you will.
00:33:25.520Then you fund and you support rioters on the streets.
00:33:30.800The people rise up and say, the government's got to do something.
00:33:34.480And that deep state-controlled government comes down and you lose your country and you lose your freedom.
00:33:40.400They did it over and over and over again.
00:33:42.940And I believe it's exactly what is happening here in the United States.
00:33:46.200How are we doing on the investigation into the deep state and all of the people that were responsible for the Russia collusion garbage and ratting out and finding these people that are working against freedom in America, in our own government?
00:34:07.300Well, we're moving forward a little bit more slowly than I would like, Glenn, but it is moving forward.
00:34:13.760In part, because we lived through two-plus years of the Mueller investigation, even though I think it's now clear that the FBI knew from the earliest days, even before Bob Mueller was appointed as a special counsel,
00:34:25.200that the Steele dossier was full of garbage, probably full of Russian intelligence disinformation, and that there was no collusion.
00:34:32.560Whatever efforts Russia undertook on its own, there was no collusion with the Trump campaign.
00:34:39.100I commend the attorney general and the U.S. attorney in Washington for dropping the charges against Mike Flynn.
00:34:46.040They shouldn't have been brought to begin with, and that was long overdue.
00:34:49.660We've seen other reports, for instance, from the inspector general and the Department of Justice about how the senior FBI leaders abused their authority in 2016 and 2017.
00:34:57.280Of course, John Durham is continuing to investigate the entire origins of the Russia collusion hoax, and I expect that will be announced well before the election.
00:35:09.540And, of course, Lindsey Graham, the Senate, has begun a series of hearings that will end up calling in some of the central players involved in those decisions,
00:35:17.880like Jim Comey and Andy McCabe, Peter Strzok, and Lisa Page.
00:35:21.340Now, nearly all of them MSNBC or CNN contributors.
00:35:24.440The president's poll numbers, depending on who you look at, and I don't believe them at this point, and I can't imagine America going for a group of people that are supporting what's happening on the streets,
00:35:46.700but, you know, whatever, America is a different place now, I guess.
00:35:50.020But this is important for these things to be cleared up before the president leaves office.
00:36:01.780We would have really dangerous people coming in, and if the American people don't see some arrests and we're not cleaning things up, I worry what's coming next.
00:36:15.220Well, that's one reason why I'm confident, Glenn, that these investigations will reach their natural conclusion before January or even before the election.
00:36:26.480The attorney general recognizes that this is a closely divided country when it comes to electoral politics.
00:36:32.100You know, we had a split decision in 2018 with Democrats winning the House and Republicans winning the Senate.
00:36:37.460I think this will be a closely contested election as well.
00:36:40.580It's important, though, that electoral politics, whoever win the election, not get in the way of uncovering the truth about what is perhaps the biggest political scandal in our country's history,
00:36:52.080which is the Obama administration's efforts to disrupt the peaceful transition of power and use the organs of law enforcement against its political opponents.
00:37:01.600So one last thing, because you were on the coronavirus early, and there's a lot of people now that look at what's happening with the medical community coming out and saying,
00:37:15.440well, racism is a much worse disease than coronavirus, so you can go protest.
00:37:20.160These mayors and these governors that were arresting people that said that people who were protesting the shutdown were irresponsible, going to kill everybody's grandmother.
00:37:31.900They were anarchists, et cetera, et cetera.
00:37:34.980Those people are now marching in the streets.
00:37:37.920The coronavirus experts are really endorsing going ahead and rioting or at least marching in the streets.
00:37:48.100And I think there's a lot of people that say, wait a minute, we destroyed our economy.
00:37:54.980Did you people even believe this ever?
00:37:59.480Well, Glenn, I hope and I pray that we will not see a surge in coronavirus cases and ultimately deaths because of the large scale protests and demonstrations over the last couple of weeks.
00:38:36.720You can't go worship in church after they've seen these very same mayors and governors not just permit, but encourage and celebrate protests and demonstrations with people marching in the streets shoulder to shoulder by the thousands.
00:38:50.360I would also suspect that to the extent those governors and mayors try to enforce those lockdowns against, say, churches holding services, that they're going to face lawsuits, and those lawsuits are apt to be successful.
00:39:03.060I mean, it can't be the case that we condone First Amendment activity by the thousands in our streets, but we prohibit First Amendment activity by the dozens in our churches.
00:39:14.080But Senator Tom Cotton, thanks for being on.
00:39:17.640My gosh, my gosh, how you won't stand with Black Lives Matter just amazes me, and I appreciate it.
00:39:24.740Thank you so much for being on the program.
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00:43:52.700We'll delve into that a bit this hour.
00:43:55.460I want to share some real facts on what is actually happening on the ground with the police officers because tomorrow I'm just going to do all police officers.
00:44:07.320I want to hear from you if you are in uniform, if you're going in, if your mayor, your city council is trashing you.
00:44:25.140Also, what the hell is happening over in Europe?
00:44:27.980Why are people in Europe, in Italy, in England, why are they protesting police brutality here in America?
00:44:38.700I don't understand that unless it really doesn't have anything to do with that and it has a lot to do with overthrowing capitalism and the Western way of life.
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00:48:21.060Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, I want to say that I think a lot of people for the past kind of few months and even years in particular have been worried about kind of the rise of China and that what implications that has for kind of international politics.
00:48:34.120But I think that what we've seen in the last week, we can be in no doubt of American cultural hegemony and how kind of American racial culture wars has now been kind of exported globally.
00:48:48.700I think it's a fantastic country, but I have actually been surprised to see thousands and thousands of people in Britain and central London putting their hands up, saying, hands up, don't shoot to one of the most demilitarized police forces in the world, which is the British police force.
00:49:12.200So I think what we've seen is a kind of attempt to create this kind of homogenized narrative about what it means to be black in the world, I think.
00:49:21.160And it's been one that has been essentialized to be one of kind of racism, oppression, victimization, irrespective of the kind of nuances and complexities of specific countries.
00:49:31.860I think absolutely, you know, racism exists that needs to be combated.
00:49:35.640But in response to the George Floyd killing for the first time and, you know, I think years, there was unity across the political spectrum, pretty much internationally saying that this was, you know, a wrong thing.
00:49:49.460And, you know, the man's now been charged and, you know, people can debate about what charge that should be.
00:49:55.540But at the end of the day, that's on our way to justice.
00:50:00.260And so what has now transpired to me is something very, very, very different.
00:50:04.700We are seeing what looks like, to me, a kind of concerted effort to paint Western society at large as this kind of bastion of evil and hate and kind of racism.
00:50:16.320And I think it's sending a really toxic and demoralizing message to a generation of young people who haven't had it so better in terms of, you know, racial equality, progress.
00:50:28.940But the narrative that is being told is completely divorced from reality.
00:50:33.420And I think it's got much darker intentions and kind of consequences unless we seriously grapple with what is happening to our culture.
00:50:41.600Can you tell me what you think, because I agree with you and, you know, everything that you're saying here leads me to the things that we have been investigating for a long time, at least on my program.
00:50:57.040And that is this concerted effort by a radical leftist group of organizations and people that want to tear down the Western world and capitalism.
00:51:12.860Do you believe that that's what you're seeing over in the UK as well?
00:51:35.420And also in the UK, we saw it up until the election until Brexit, which is essentially overthrowing the democratic system in order to kind of push forward a certain agenda.
00:51:45.300And I think I don't want to make too many connections, but I do think it's all part of the same underlying ideology that has a deep, bitiful resentment kind of Western society and sees, you know, many of these political upheavals as an opportunity to exploit it, to kind of push forward a very radical left agenda.
00:52:05.260And I think it's really worrying, I think, at least in the UK, we have a situation where kind of the Conservative Party won the election.
00:52:14.220And a lot of us thought that that was a positive thing in terms of pushing back against this.
00:52:19.900But the left, I think, again, it's similar in America, have right now a monopoly on culture.
00:52:25.160They have very significant sways in terms of the media and in terms of changing that narrative and reclaiming a kind of more positive and realistic representation of the West and kind of speaking to the young people that this picture is not actually the reality is something that is still, you know, there's a lot more work to be done there.
00:52:46.320So I've recently met the founders and the heads of an organization, Turning Point UK, and I've been really excited to see the ideas of freedom start to take root in a younger generation as well.
00:53:12.260But it's almost like it's a cute little effort overseas because you don't have our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
00:53:20.940And quite honestly, we don't either right now.
00:53:23.360But so it's a different look at liberty and it's kind of a hard sell in some ways.
00:53:29.540How are you seeing the pushback on this globalist, Marxist kind of ideology?
00:53:37.980Is there a growing pushback on that at all?
00:53:44.360Well, you know, even in Britain, we don't obviously, as you mentioned, have a written constitution.
00:53:49.440But we have a really strong and rich tradition of liberty in terms of, you know, John Stuart Mill and kind of the Bill of Rights and the Magna Carta.
00:53:57.140It's a very rich and kind of amazing tradition there.
00:53:59.460And I think a lot of that, again, has kind of been brushed to the side and downplayed in this swell of cultural self-loathing, which is really encapsulated many of the left in particular, but a lot in the West.
00:54:11.460But I think in terms of the pushback, I think it is something that's growing.
00:54:16.000So I'm part of an organization in the UK called the Free Speech Union.
00:54:19.440And we've now been really proactive in terms of trying to defend people that are even facing, you know, losing their job and their positions to simple things that they've said.
00:54:28.260I mean, even recently in the UK, it's quite horrifying.
00:54:31.640A gentleman, a radio presenter, was kind of is being investigated for criticizing Black Lives Matter.
00:54:39.620So, you know, it is a really, really serious thing.
00:54:42.300And obviously, you know, there's a whole situation in terms of the New York Times in America over there.
00:54:46.060So the pushback is there, but it definitely needs to be much stronger, much more forthright.
00:54:53.400I mean, if we look at the lockdown, you know, in Britain, I've been quite surprised at how there wasn't that much pushback in terms of the biggest peacetime removal of our liberties.
00:55:04.040And so I think that a lot of people have felt quite, felt kind of exhausted by the constant barrage of negativity.
00:55:12.360But I think that what we've seen now, something feels different to me in the UK.
00:55:17.340You know, statues, as you mentioned, of Winston Churchill being brought down, historic cultural monuments being defamed, and, you know, violence against the police, and all of these really kind of significant things.
00:55:29.260I think a lot of people are now waking up and saying that we cannot let this go on, or this is really going to spiral into something much, much darker than it already is.
00:55:38.740So how does the America, how does the United States of America, and be, you know, be honest, I'm not asking for a, you know, a nice fluffy answer here.
00:55:48.760How does the United States of America look to those in Great Britain who may have looked on us favorably in the past?
00:55:56.940What do you, what do you, what does the average person think about what's happening over here?
00:56:01.620I think the average person is, probably sees a lot of parallels, but it depends on the perspective.
00:56:12.820So I think what I found is that a lot of people that were in favor of Brexit, which was actually obviously the majority of the country in a democratic vote,
00:56:20.140had a lot of sympathies with Trump, not necessarily in terms of, you know, the particular policies he was advocating,
00:56:27.240but in terms of what he represented in regards to a kind of figure that is taking on the establishment,
00:56:34.520taking on these kinds of institutions that have been so entrenched, but not really dealing with the kind of issues that are plaguing so many people.
00:56:43.880And so I think a lot of people in Britain that supported Brexit have been very sympathetic towards that
00:56:49.240and do see parallels in terms of the way in which, you know, for example, in America,
00:56:53.920particularly the kind of radical left weaponized impeachment to try and in some ways, you know, subvert democracy,
00:57:00.360the way that many people, particularly on the radical left in America, were the most servant in regards to the lockdown and things like that.
00:57:09.020So I think there are quite similar parallels.
00:57:11.080But I think similar with here, it really depends on who you speak to.
00:57:16.420And I think, unfortunately, I think particularly the mainstream media in the UK don't always paint America with the most positive deception.
00:57:24.580But I think there's a great number of people that do see through it and kind of see that a lot of the time,
00:57:30.380that the way that the media represent political events in America and also in Britain is not actually the full scope of what is happening.
00:57:38.460I will tell you that I think we look at Great Britain, many of us look at Great Britain in the same exact way.
00:57:44.720You know, while we didn't understand all the ins and outs of Brexit, we were with you because it seemed as though you were experiencing the same thing
00:57:53.180with a government that had just become abusive to the people.
00:58:15.340No, I was just going to say, well, there's an election obviously coming up in November and there was in America.
00:58:20.860And obviously in Britain, there was in December.
00:58:22.660So I think it's definitely through democracy and through arguments that we need to push back and not full succumb to the kind of tactics of the radical left.
00:59:06.840What are the things that make them great?
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01:00:52.900They thought that they would be protected by the deep state.
01:00:55.900And indeed, if we have a change in in president and and Senate, if God forbid, I can't imagine to help me in what world does America vote for people who are are are standing with the protesters in the riots?
01:01:23.320The riots are obviously a further, you know, path.
01:01:28.160You're down that road a little bit further.
01:01:29.700I mean, the protesters, I think a lot of people will get on.
01:01:32.440I mean, you know, the idea of the Black Lives Matter means what their their statement of values means to most people, I think, is is not accurate.
01:01:42.080Right. Most people say, well, no, I want to be nice to black people, too.
01:01:46.000Why? Why wouldn't I join these rallies?
01:01:47.860A lot of that a lot of it is that, of course.
01:01:50.140But, you know, I think the only world where this happens is, you know, we are looking at an economy that is bouncing back, hopefully a little bit.
01:02:11.500Do they think their their their their world is getting better?
01:02:14.820If, you know, there was there 40 million people who lost their job as far as the coronavirus situation goes.
01:02:20.520If that's if 30 million of them have their jobs back and we're trending in the right direction, you know, he's got a great chance, you know, but I don't know.
01:02:29.320I mean, I don't I don't know that they'll make the distinctions.
01:02:31.300I mean, Biden has come out, by the way, and said, for what it's worth, that he doesn't want to defund the police.
01:02:36.700So, you know, whatever that means, whether you believe it or not, it doesn't matter.
01:02:54.580One of the big reasons Kamala Harris didn't win the nomination is because she was a prosecutor and they're going to put her on the ticket like that's really going to piss off because you're going to have to have somebody that is going to look tough on crime.
01:03:07.120You cannot you they will lose hand over fist if they just placate this stuff and they're all for defunding the cops and everything else.
01:06:25.440To defund when activists say that what they mean is taking money away from the police department's budget and redirect it toward other things, whether that be social services agencies, maybe mental health agencies that can do functions that police are often called on to do.
01:06:42.060But if you fully defund it, you can get to a space where the police department is abolished.
01:06:47.780And so essentially what that means is that there is no more police department as we know it.
01:06:53.900You don't call these men and women in blue shirts to come racing to your door with their guns in hand.
01:07:01.200It means that they have to figure out some other form of providing that public safety.
01:07:05.420And the police department would not be that form.
01:07:08.020And where do these concepts come from?
01:07:15.940I mean, listen to the New York Times taking this seriously, taking something that we have had since the beginning of time, police, and just throwing it out and saying, well, we're going to come up with something different.
01:07:26.580Well, I'd kind of like to know what, you know, but we could all hope for change.
01:08:18.420I'm going to play devil's advocate and I'm going to bring Stu in for this, too.
01:08:22.140And we want to we want to push you on the stats because we have heard all of these all of these press reports and all of these people saying how bad it is.
01:08:33.000So you go ahead and fill our head with these lies.
01:09:25.880The Washington Post documented just over one thousand shootings last year and nine hundred ninety two shootings in 2018.
01:09:33.380So that numbers remain pretty steady that year, police in general across the whole country fired their guns just over three thousand times in 2018.
01:09:44.760There's multiple shootings a day involving police.
01:09:47.320But in a country of three hundred and thirty million people with a police force of nearly seven hundred thousand officers in full time roles, not not including reserve officers or part time roles.
01:09:57.840That is that is that is an incredibly low amount, especially when you consider also that they make more than 10 million arrests in a given year, have almost 100 million police citizen contacts.
01:10:10.220Right. So when we look at the full scope of the volume of police activity, what we see is the deadly encounters represent an infinitesimally small slice of an exceptionally large pie.
01:10:23.160Right. At most, if you're looking at 10.3 million arrests, 0.003 percent of arrests result in the use of deadly force.
01:10:33.020That is that is not evidence of a pandemic of police violence.
01:10:37.140That is not evidence of a of a police force out of control.
01:10:40.620And the case does not get any stronger when you look at nonfatal uses of force.
01:10:45.120Right. One of the one of the best studies I've seen on this is a study that was published in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery.
01:10:52.700It looked at over a million calls for service across three midsize police departments, one in North Carolina, one in Louisiana and one in Arizona.
01:11:00.260Those calls for service resulted in over one hundred and fourteen thousand arrests.
01:11:04.220And in less than one percent of all those arrests was physical force used.
01:11:09.260And in ninety eight percent of the cases in which physical force was used, there was no discernible injury to the suspect whatsoever.
01:11:16.560There was only one instance in those one hundred and fourteen thousand arrests of a fatal police shooting.
01:11:22.520Right. Again, that is some subset of that.
01:11:26.200The sub subset of that reflect error to some subset of that use of force reflect malevolence.
01:11:32.000Perhaps. But the idea that this is that illegal police force can characterize the institution of policing as opposed to just reflecting the individual actions of what amount to statistically few bad apples.
01:11:47.080That that is not a claim that can be sustained.
01:11:49.540OK, so the Washington Post has said protests spread over police shootings.
01:12:09.520But what about what about the fact that this has been going over for decades and and they're killing blacks at a much higher rate than they're killing whites?
01:12:22.660Right. Well, I'm going to I'm going to start at the beginning of that question.
01:12:26.380Right. One of the big flaws that the Washington Post suffers from in making that.
01:12:31.520Kind of claims that their own they're basing it on their own data set, which only goes back to 2015.
01:12:36.680Right. That is not a long period of time.
01:12:39.440But the fact of the matter is, yes, we have had essentially steady rates of police shootings in 2015.
01:12:44.240But that does not mean that we have not had any progress on this front.
01:12:47.580Take, for example, some of the data out of the New York City Police Department in 1971.
01:12:53.200When that department started to keep track, New York City police fired their their guns eight hundred and ten times.
01:12:59.240They wounded two hundred and twenty one people and killed ninety three that year in 2016.
01:13:05.340Those numbers were just that were down to just seventy two, twenty three and nine respectively.
01:13:10.440That is an enormous amount of progress that may not be captured in that short five year window.
01:13:15.980Right. One of the one of my biggest pet peeves about this debate is that what the rhetoric has done is it has essentially positioned us to be underwhelmed by even meaningful progress.
01:13:27.780Because the fact of the matter is, is, again, police are not perfect, but there isn't a whole lot of room for improvement when it comes to deadly force simply because of the fact that it is such a rare occurrence.
01:13:39.380Now, as for the fact that that black Americans are disproportionately represented in police shooting numbers, that's true.
01:13:45.480If you use their basis, if you use the denominator, which is their proportion of the population that they make up.
01:13:52.100But that to me is the wrong denominator.
01:13:54.260What we should be looking at are rates of violent crime.
01:13:57.700And we know, for example, that black Americans, despite constituting just 13 percent of the population, are responsible for more than 50 percent of all murders in the United States.
01:14:07.800And when you consider the fact that most of those murders, almost all of them are committed by men, you get a stat that looks more like about 7 percent of the population being responsible for nearly 50 percent of all those homicides.
01:14:20.660That it's that disproportionality that informs the disproportionate statistics that we see in police shootings and other uses of force.
01:14:28.860Right. We cannot work around the reality that black men have a homicide commission rate that is about eight times that of their white counterparts.
01:14:38.060That is going to be reflected in this data. Right. And I would ask any reasonable person to really just reflect on the on the following question, which is that do you honestly believe that police resources should be equally distributed across the United States without regard to crime rates?
01:14:53.620I don't think any reasonable person would answer that question in the affirmative.
01:14:56.740And so if you believe that police that police resource deployments should reflect varying rates of violent crime, then it stands to reason that that deployment of resources is going to result in more contacts that police are going to have with black Americans simply by virtue of the racial disparities that we see in crime victimization and commission numbers.
01:15:20.020Again, on the victimization, everyone likes to focus on enforcement disparities, but on the victimization disparities, a black American is six times more likely to be the victim of a homicide than a white American.
01:15:30.340No one talks about that disparity. To me, that is one of the most important disparities that our country needs to address.
01:15:36.080And police have been at the forefront of addressing that disparity for decades on end.
01:15:40.120And to lose sight of that, I think, really, truly reflects the fever pitch that we've reached in this debate.
01:15:47.220And I think truly reflects the major flaw in the left's argument on this topic.
01:15:52.280Rafael, I'm wondering if you could address one thing that is brought up a lot, which is the idea that there's been several studies that have showed that white police officers are equal or, in some cases, less likely to use force against black citizens when it comes to in a comparative way.
01:16:16.140So the idea that this is sort of fueled by racism, is there anything to prove that out?
01:16:22.620No, other than the facial disparities that people harp on, right?
01:16:29.420And that's the thing. Disparities on their own don't show intent.
01:16:34.420And intent is at the core of a claim of racism, right?
01:16:38.160And we have, as you mentioned, really fantastic econometric studies that have looked at these questions very deeply.
01:16:44.800Roland Fryer of Harvard University has done probably the best one.
01:16:49.140And what he found is that there is no evidence of racial animus driving deadly police force.
01:16:56.120And that makes sense, because police deadly force is often used in situations that are extremely intense and that unfold within seconds.
01:17:06.600Police don't have the time to consider someone's race in deciding whether, you know, to fire their weapons.
01:17:13.700I mean, one example of this is the shooting of Stephon Clark out in Sacramento almost two years ago.
01:17:20.660This was a case of a guy who was shot holding just a cell phone that was apparently mistaken for a gun.
01:17:26.640It was pitch black when police encountered him.
01:17:29.140He took off as soon as they approached him.
01:17:33.340And thankfully, the video captures the police's actions in this.
01:17:38.900You see them run up the driveway, and as they break the threshold of the back of the house and turn into the backyard to chase the suspect, you see that the lead officer stops short, pulls his partner back behind cover, and then they fire their weapons from cover.
01:17:52.800That is not the action of an officer who is trying to murder someone he knows to be unarmed.
01:17:57.800That is the action of someone who has clearly made a mistake because of the darkness.
01:18:02.900And the idea that in those intense moments where someone believed that their life was in danger, they were calculating whether they were going to try and save their own lives based on the race of the suspect really just doesn't have any basis in the data, in the studies that we've seen, or in reality.
01:18:18.140All right, so I'm going to run out of time.
01:18:22.920What about things like, you know, chokeholds and resisting arrest?
01:18:29.020And, I mean, if he wouldn't have died, police wouldn't – we wouldn't know about this.
01:18:34.360But the abuse would have still gone on.
01:18:36.660Are there any stats on any of these things?
01:18:38.780Because the Washington Post says there's no stats on them.
01:18:42.060Well, no, that's not entirely true, right?
01:18:44.440The Bureau of Justice Statistics does do surveys of citizens who have had police encounters.
01:18:53.420And in those surveys, they ask citizens whether they were, for example, the victims of force that they felt to be excessive.
01:19:00.980And we see that only about 8% of those citizens who – and this is, you know, encompassing more than 50,000 contacts – only about 8% of citizens express any kind of displeasure with their police interactions.
01:19:13.800And only a subset of that 8% are based on impressions of excessive force, which, again, have to be taken with a grain of salt because most people are not going to enjoy being on the enforcement end of a police encounter.
01:19:28.060And oftentimes, you know, their impressions of what's legal and what's not are erroneous.
01:19:33.800And so, yeah, again, I think that what we saw in the George Floyd video does reflect misconduct.
01:23:15.440Because the guy who is now leading the prosecution is Keith Ellison.
01:23:22.760Keith Ellison, we know, is a radical, an absolute radical.
01:23:27.200You would think that he would do everything he could to make sure this guy goes to jail.
01:23:32.620But maybe he's maybe he's just convinced of his own superpowers that he can convict all four of these guys in ways that most prosecutors say you shouldn't do that.
01:23:46.780Maybe he's just overzealous or maybe it is worse than that.
01:26:55.260Andy McCarthy, a contributing editor, National Review, senior fellow for the National Review Institute.
01:27:01.060He has been on with us several times, good friend of the program.
01:27:05.040Andy, you wrote a great piece for the National Review.
01:27:10.600The new Floyd murder charges will be tough to prove and may imperil good cops.
01:27:15.820As I'm reading it, what is happening with the prosecution seems nuts, seems nuts.
01:27:23.840Yeah, Glenn, thanks so much for having me and calling attention to this.
01:27:30.220You know, the case is kind of weirdly overcharged and undercharged at this point.
01:27:36.180And I keep having to kind of police myself because I have the same cynicism about Keith Ellison, as I gather you do.
01:27:46.980And I need to kind of like try to put that in a box and just look at this in a clinical way rather than freighting it too much with what I think of him.
01:27:57.440So, for what it's worth, you know, on Chauvin, who's the main guy, of course, I think the second degree charge, the second degree murder charge that he, that Ellison put in,
01:28:12.420which was sort of designed at least politically to say that they had ratcheted up the charges, is a reach.
01:28:22.880And the thing I think we have to keep in mind is that the way they do their charges, and let's remember now, we have not seen an indictment yet.
01:28:31.800So far, these guys have only been charged in complaints.
01:28:34.900So we don't know what the final charges are going to look like.
01:28:37.240But if they look like this, there'll be three different theories of murder.
01:28:41.940And just common sense says to me that a jury watching that last indefensible eight minutes is going to convict this guy of something.
01:28:53.880So, to me, my complaint and my worry about the second degree charge, which is the felony murder theory, under which what he's basically saying is that when the cops first put hands on this guy,
01:29:09.180and as that whole situation evolved, that was an assault, and Mr. Floyd later died.
01:29:19.340The felony is a third degree assault under Minnesota law.
01:29:22.520I think from a policy standpoint, that's a really dumb thing to do because it puts cops on the street, good cops, in fear of the idea that if they do the things you have to do in order to do effective policing, like use superior force, not egregious force or excessive force, but superior force against someone who's resisting arrest, you have to now worry that you could be charged with a felony.
01:29:49.100But that doesn't mean, but that doesn't mean that, you know, juries don't do policy.
01:29:53.000They do the one case with the one defendant and one victim.
01:29:57.620I could see the jury convicting on that theory.
01:30:01.480I think it's more likely they convict on his second theory, which is depraved indifference, because I think that's a good match for what their evidence is.
01:30:10.860Yeah, I have to tell you, Andy, I think that is where this whole thing meets.
01:30:19.440When I watched that, it didn't seem like I'm out to murder a guy.
01:30:38.080Now, I know people who practice law in Minnesota who tell me that there's some troublesome case law with that.
01:30:46.340And I know that that as a prosecutor, you have to worry about that stuff when we for what it's worth.
01:30:52.540I mean, when we indicted the blind shake a million years ago, there was some bad law in our circuit on attempted bombings and some other stuff that we had to worry about.
01:31:02.580But we really felt like and I think the prosecutors here should feel like their evidence is so strong in terms of the recklessness and depravity of that.
01:31:12.220I just cannot see a jury acquitting on that.
01:31:16.920OK, so that's that's good news, right, because he would go to jail.
01:31:21.640And but would that be the second is is depraved indifference part of the murder count of of second degree murder?
01:31:31.160It's third degree murder. And, you know, Glenn, I think people are getting too hung up on, you know, they've watched too many episodes of Dragnet or Hawaii Five-0 or something.
01:31:40.400You know, if it's not book a murder one that, you know, people are right.
01:31:44.660People don't think it's serious enough because it doesn't sound serious enough.
01:31:48.440Murder three is murder. And I think if this guy gets convicted of murder, no one's going to remember that it was third degree murder.
01:31:54.160Murder. It's a murder. Correct. And sometimes I was just going to say sometimes categorically, you know, you go first, second, third because of seriousness.
01:32:05.140Sometimes it's just that the conduct is so different. They have to put it in a different section of the statute.
01:32:10.520It's not necessarily a reflection that it's not as serious as second degree.
01:32:14.280All right. And how much of a sentence does that usually get? How much how much time would this guy spend behind bars?
01:32:26.140OK, now the other three degree would be up to 40, just so you know.
01:32:31.180So that's I mean, that's the difference we're talking about.
01:32:33.200OK, so the the other three aiding and abetting.
01:32:38.720And in your article, you talk about how this one you have to run through hoops because they're also charged.
01:32:47.740Are they not also charged with second degree?
01:32:50.880They're charged with aiding and abetting both second degree and manslaughter.
01:32:55.960And I think theoretically, this is where you worry about Ellison being more of a, you know, sort of a radical ideologue than a technical lawyer.
01:33:07.220Negligence, manslaughter in Minnesota is negligent homicide.
01:33:12.100And as we all know, negligence means something happens that nobody intended.
01:33:16.500Right. You're careless in something that you didn't foresee, but you should have.
01:33:21.100That's terrible. Happens your care. Right.
01:33:23.260Because it's a risk and a guy dies. Aiding and abetting liability means that the accomplice, who's the aider and a better, has to understand what the principal is trying to accomplish and then join himself and did something active to bring it about.
01:33:38.820Well, no one tries to accomplish negligence.
01:33:42.740So I have a problem with the theory of aiding and abetting being matched up with negligence.
01:33:48.660But I think he would have been fine and he would still be fine when they ultimately indict if he indicts them, not as aiders and abettors, but as principals, because at least the two guys who were holding Floyd down along with Chauvin, they had to know what they were doing was was careless and wrong, if not depraved.
01:34:08.260And I think you could get you could convict them just as people who committed manslaughter rather than trying to go through the mental hoops of did they understand what Chauvin was trying to accomplish and how did they try to join?
01:34:23.200You know, I mean, that that kind of mental gymnastics is, I think, overcomplicating, which should be a pretty straightforward question.
01:34:31.340Yeah. And how do you prove that any of them were trying to accomplish killing this guy?
01:34:39.260Oh, I think that's a great point, because the evidence that's in the complaint suggests the contrary.
01:34:45.860You know, these bird brains didn't do what they should have done to stop this from happening.
01:34:50.340But at least one of them says to Chauvin, you know, don't don't you think we ought to roll this guy over on his shoulder?
01:34:55.120You know, I'm a little bit worried that he's going to go into, you know, various forms of medical distress.
01:35:01.060And Chauvin, who's the 19 year veteran and is the senior guy out there, says, no, no, no.
01:35:05.620That's why we're leaving him on his stomach as he continued to sit on the guy's neck.
01:35:11.900Right. So so that guy's going to be able to say, I wasn't trying to kill the guy.
01:35:16.100You know, when you're trying to kill the guy, you think you don't ask, do you think he's doing OK?
01:35:21.620Sure. I don't mean right of it. I just I just, you know, the defense lawyers are going to have a field day with that sort of stuff.
01:35:28.720But I think if you charge them with this is negligent homicide, the prosecutor's position is, look, you can't continue to sit on the guy's back.
01:35:41.420With somebody sitting on his neck two minutes after he has no pulse.
01:35:47.360You know, even if you didn't have the worst of intentions, that's careless.
01:35:50.260That's manslaughter. That's what we have manslaughter for.
01:35:54.000And stop worrying. You know, don't don't charge the case in a way where you have to prove what these guys must have thought Chauvin was trying to accomplish.
01:36:03.460I've been on a jury before, Andrew, and we wanted to send this guy away for a very long time.
01:37:31.500They really do do what the courts tell them to do as a general matter, and they don't convict people, even though the evidence can be horrifying if it doesn't match up with the judge tells them has to be proved.
01:37:46.140So you're you're you're right to be concerned about how this case gets charged.
01:38:27.900Yes, they are conducting a civil rights investigation.
01:38:31.740Now, that's a that's a tougher proof than a straightforward state murder prosecution, because you have to prove an intent basically to discriminate and to deprive somebody of their constitutional rights and their and their legal rights.
01:38:50.420But they would get if they if they think they can make that, they can get a second bite at the apple, because we have what's known as the dual sovereignty doctrine.
01:39:14.120I appreciate Andrew McCarthy contributing under to the National Review.
01:39:17.020I find it really interesting that what I'm worried about is exactly what RFK was worried about, just in a different way.
01:39:26.560He was worried about these cases going down and the the prosecutors botching the case and the jury just, you know, doing what they want to do because they were all white.
01:39:48.020And I'm worried about the prosecution just for a different reason, because I think this guy is a radical and God forbid this is true.
01:39:56.140I ain't even saying it, but it's just I mean, you're telling me crazier things aren't happening now that this thing is overcharged and they they fail on the prosecution.
01:40:07.040And we have a massive, massive problem on our hands.
01:40:11.840I hope the federal government is watching this closely.
01:40:20.780But first, let me tell you about Rectech grills.
01:40:23.100A few months ago, I was not a fan of grilling out.
01:40:26.280In fact, I would, you know, start out making is as few of my meals on the grill as possible if I were actually grilling because I suck at a grill.
01:42:36.440Uh, if you go to YouTube and just search for Stu, it'll be the first show there.
01:42:39.460But if you go there and you check it out, one of the things I think is interesting is we can all come together and say an individual thing happened to this individual, George Floyd, that should be punished by the law.
01:42:51.680And, uh, and I don't know if anyone's noticed this.
01:42:53.400We've charged four people and, you know, including murder.
01:42:56.040Uh, so that we've done some of this already.
01:42:58.140The idea is how do you expand this into a much larger, uh, societal, uh, ill.
01:43:04.540And while we've had problems with this before, here's something where we've made real progress.
01:43:10.280We've actually almost completely solved it to the point of something like six or seven times as many people die from interactions with lawnmowers every year.
01:43:21.980Then die, uh, for, as an unarmed black person being killed by police, uh, you know, when you think of the number of people that are involved in the, with the police and how violent those things could get, that's a remarkable stat.