The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program ｜ Guest： Josh Rogin ｜ 4⧸17⧸23

00:00:00.000 We did a lot of talk about AI today.

00:00:02.580 We did.

00:00:03.560 Most of it, we had ChatGPT right for us.

00:00:07.800 Well, you had it right.

00:00:09.440 I had to deliver me with the visuals and everything.

00:00:12.540 I'm not even here.

00:00:13.880 Right, no.

00:00:14.420 I'm just a...

00:00:15.100 That was a totally different AI program, though.

00:00:17.100 Yeah.

00:00:17.880 It's crazy how fast this is growing.

00:00:21.140 And when you look at the ability of the federal government now going in and saying,

00:00:30.200 because we had these guys in chat rooms that were putting out top-secret stuff,

00:00:36.300 they're not saying, let's make our top-secret access harder to get.

00:00:42.000 They're instead saying, we've got to monitor everything.

00:00:44.460 Yeah, of course.

00:00:45.440 Well, the thing we wanted before is the thing we want now because of this new problem.

00:00:49.260 Right.

00:00:49.700 It's crazy.

00:00:51.960 And we're at a place to where it can happen.

00:00:55.620 And so we talk a little bit about the technology that is coming, what it means.

00:01:00.040 We talk about the leak and what that means with China, how long before they're ready to invade.

00:01:06.720 I personally, and I could be wrong, I'm not basing this on anything other than me, my gut, what I would do.

00:01:13.300 I'll tell you about the timeline with China.

00:01:17.700 And so much more on today's program.

00:01:20.580 Oh, by the way, also a really powerful hour on disinformation.

00:01:26.420 All on today's podcast.

00:01:28.060 Brought to you by Jace Medical.

00:01:29.960 Recently, we shot down the spy balloon from China.

00:01:32.820 The president still, according to the White House, has not spoken to President Z about the balloon.

00:01:42.060 I don't know if we're on speaking terms with a lot of people in the world right now.

00:01:47.380 And we have 18 of our 21 critical antibiotics coming from overseas.

00:01:54.560 We don't make medicines anymore.

00:01:56.620 They take Japan. 0.99

00:01:58.040 We don't make the really high, high, high value and efficient chips anymore.

00:02:04.460 They're all made in Taiwan. 0.96

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00:02:54.540 Hey, I don't know if you saw what happened in Chicago.

00:03:11.120 Can we roll the tape on Chicago?

00:03:13.280 Nothing.

00:03:14.660 Nothing really bad happening in Chicago this weekend.

00:03:18.080 Okay, so there were some teenagers that got a little out of control.

00:03:21.740 Maybe a little bit.

00:03:23.220 Like, smashing windows and destroying public and private property and shootings and things like that.

00:03:33.120 And everything was on fire.

00:03:34.280 But that's no big deal.

00:03:36.220 What is the problem?

00:03:37.980 Can't blame them.

00:03:39.520 Look, this has happened multiple times now.

00:03:43.240 And the incredible leadership of the city of Chicago has been there to try to correct it.

00:03:49.800 And this is the result of it.

00:03:51.660 And they took out Lori Lightfoot to put in someone who might actually be worse.

00:03:55.040 Yeah.

00:03:55.420 It's hard to do.

00:03:56.520 Yeah, which is really hard to do.

00:03:57.820 Very difficult to do.

00:03:58.800 But they've done it.

00:03:59.580 And this will continue now.

00:04:01.620 So I'd just like to ask, escape from New York, I think it's probably going to be escape from Chicago before New York.

00:04:09.800 You know, but escape from New York, it will be a prison because you take those 10 bridges out and nobody's getting off that island.

00:04:17.680 So, but you're going to have to have somebody come in and rescue people in Chicago.

00:04:23.700 It's going to get bad.

00:04:25.140 Imagine if society would break down.

00:04:26.980 They're doing this already.

00:04:29.040 And society hasn't broken down.

00:04:31.120 Oh, that's going to be good.

00:04:32.580 It's going to be good.

00:04:33.360 No, seriously, it's going to be good.

00:04:34.520 We should talk about things, you know.

00:04:37.180 But we don't generally do that.

00:04:40.480 But I think we should start.

00:04:42.500 What is happening to us?

00:04:45.180 Because we're about to enter a whole new world.

00:04:48.540 We're about to give birth to something.

00:04:53.660 Our due date is coming.

00:04:55.940 You know, I was reading the Bible this weekend.

00:05:01.660 And I saw the words, ripened fruit.

00:05:06.220 And I thought, oh, wow, that's what we are.

00:05:09.000 We are in our decay.

00:05:11.280 We are ripened fruit.

00:05:13.160 Ready either for the picking or just to fall and rot on the ground.

00:05:18.540 We got to we got to change things.

00:05:20.560 We have to start turning things around.

00:05:22.900 And unfortunately, we have some huge issues that we're we're not paying attention to.

00:05:29.660 And we're not making progress.

00:05:31.120 We just keep arguing left versus right.

00:05:34.100 We keep arguing Democrat or Republican.

00:05:36.800 That's a really pretty useless argument at this point.

00:05:40.600 Why don't we start arguing principles?

00:05:42.880 Because if we don't return to those principles, we're in trouble.

00:05:45.720 Here is here's the latest news on A.I.

00:05:49.740 Do you know that A.I.

00:05:51.500 ChatGPT and A.I.

00:05:53.340 It is doubling.

00:05:55.840 What would you say is fast?

00:05:57.760 It is doubling its power, its intellect, its toolbox, if you will.

00:06:04.580 Every 48 hours.

00:06:06.380 Every 48 hours.

00:06:11.740 It's doubling.

00:06:14.080 They've never seen anything like this.

00:06:16.400 They're surprised.

00:06:17.580 Whoa, we're surprised.

00:06:18.620 Really?

00:06:19.060 You were surprised?

00:06:20.180 Huh?

00:06:20.880 Because, you know, again, a guy who doesn't have all of your education.

00:06:24.980 I swear to you, I should just be in some of these labs.

00:06:27.280 I should go over to Wuhan.

00:06:28.500 I should just be there like, you know what?

00:06:30.700 This is going to escape.

00:06:32.240 Here's how it's going to escape.

00:06:33.880 And then you're forced to listen to me, I think.

00:06:37.100 I think.

00:06:37.520 If we're going to have a world, we should just make the bankers listen to me and go, you know, that system there?

00:06:46.260 I think you're relying too much on that.

00:06:48.180 And you're doing all this bad stuff that weakens that.

00:06:52.340 So you should stop doing that.

00:06:54.880 Just all we need are just a bunch of farmers, really.

00:06:57.840 Anybody.

00:06:58.920 Anybody.

00:06:59.440 Who's just a regular schmo. 0.98

00:07:01.500 Who's paying attention.

00:07:02.880 You know all this.

00:07:03.920 You know all these things are coming.

00:07:05.600 AI.

00:07:07.180 Doubling.

00:07:08.820 Every 48 hours.

00:07:10.660 That will mean for the average.

00:07:13.820 Let's say a cell phone.

00:07:14.900 It will make the progress that a smartphone made from 2007, when it was first introduced, to 2018 in the next six months.

00:07:34.620 I don't know.

00:07:36.680 I don't know.

00:07:37.680 That seems pretty fast.

00:07:38.820 You are now entering a time where they're talking about, we should shut this down.

00:07:46.300 We should at least pause for a while.

00:07:49.260 Well, you can't now.

00:07:50.720 Because China is already there. 0.97

00:07:53.440 And China is not going to shut it down.

00:07:55.260 So do you want China to surpass the United States?

00:07:58.600 How about this?

00:07:59.340 We just shut down the American innovation that's public.

00:08:06.460 And we have everybody just work for the government like a Manhattan project.

00:08:11.160 So then the government is the only one with AI.

00:08:14.400 Oh, that sounds good, too.

00:08:15.980 Doesn't it?

00:08:18.320 There are no good options.

00:08:20.180 And too many nefarious people.

00:08:22.300 When I saw the teenagers, I thought, oh, yeah, no.

00:08:25.240 No, there's not people that just want to see the world burn.

00:08:28.020 Because ChatGPT, as it stands now, you can make a weapon of mass destruction with ChatGPT.

00:08:42.060 You could right now, if you're really nefarious, say, find the most important people in institutions and search them out.

00:08:54.080 Develop fake, you know, web portals for all of these banks and send emails out and say, you've got to change, go through this web portal.

00:09:09.300 And it looks just like Bank of America.

00:09:11.520 And as it's rejected or accepted, it learns how to write that letter to get you to go through that portal.

00:09:21.580 And then once it has all of your information, it just clears your bank accounts.

00:09:25.440 And it does it with everybody who is very, very, very wealthy.

00:09:29.000 Does it to the corporations.

00:09:30.840 Does it to anybody that will log online.

00:09:33.020 Not the little people.

00:09:34.160 It's a weapon of mass destruction.

00:09:36.260 That could happen today with ChatGPT.

00:09:41.660 And it will learn.

00:09:43.060 You could do that today.

00:09:47.260 I was listening to David Sachs on All In, his podcast, and they were talking about scenarios like that.

00:09:53.960 They're like, done.

00:09:55.300 What do you think?

00:09:55.900 And David was like, well, we should just wait for regulation.

00:09:59.680 We don't know what we're dealing with yet.

00:10:01.460 And I'm like, what do we, what do you mean wait?

00:10:04.680 It's doubling every, every two days.

00:10:07.320 What are, how long do we wait?

00:10:10.220 30 days?

00:10:12.440 Five weeks?

00:10:13.740 How long do we wait?

00:10:15.420 Because the world is going to change at an exponential pace.

00:10:19.420 And I don't have a solution.

00:10:21.680 I don't think there is a solution except for all of us coming back to true principles and understanding self-regulation.

00:10:32.320 Just because you can do something, Wuhan labs, you don't do it. 0.89

00:10:38.820 Just because you can, you don't.

00:10:40.680 I mean, I appreciate your, this as a, an important principle for humanity generally.

00:10:52.140 Yes.

00:10:52.460 But I don't even know how that solves this problem.

00:10:55.120 I mean, what does self-regulation do to the, and you, as you point out, all of us using the, you know, very easy to achieve standard of full compliance.

00:11:04.260 I mean, I really, the idea is either we self-regulate, which won't happen.

00:11:11.280 There's always, I mean, in billions of people, there's somebody who's like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna set the whole world on fire.

00:11:18.440 It's always somebody.

00:11:19.260 It's always somebody.

00:11:20.620 And if we don't have it, if the average person doesn't have it, because, well, we're gonna protect, we're gonna protect everybody.

00:11:27.880 Then you have governments in charge of it, like they're not going to enslave the world.

00:11:34.240 All right, that's gonna be terrible, too.

00:11:35.620 Yeah, horrible.

00:11:36.280 This is bordering, I will be honest, on one of those problems, and there's a few of them out there, that just feels so big that I just kind of throw my hands up and don't care about it anymore.

00:11:48.580 That's, like, where I'm starting to get with AI.

00:11:50.620 Well, because it's either, it's, something's gonna happen with it, and I know I can't control it, and I don't know, I honestly don't know what the answer is.

00:11:57.880 The answer is, it's coming way too fast.

00:11:59.260 The answer is, the answer I gave in 2007 or 8, unplug from the system.

00:12:06.780 Make sure that you're not reliant on giant systems.

00:12:10.740 I read an interesting manifesto by a guy who lived in a shack who recommended the same thing.

00:12:15.180 Right?

00:12:15.260 And I'm starting to wonder, between him and the villain in A View to a Kill, I mean, did they have some of this down?

00:12:22.000 Do you remember the guy we interviewed, what was his name, from Yale University, mathematician?

00:12:28.640 Oh, yeah.

00:12:29.020 Incredible guy.

00:12:29.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:12:30.160 He has a black glove on his hand, like Darth Vader, because he was the first target of the unibom. 0.99

00:12:36.860 Hold on, let me ask AI what his name is.

00:12:38.280 Yeah, okay.

00:12:39.100 And he opened up his mailbox, and a bomb of nails went off.

00:12:43.740 He is in tremendous pain to this day.

00:12:47.320 I'm trying to remember his name.

00:12:49.580 And he wrote a book about this time.

00:12:55.320 And the unibomber missed his point.

00:12:58.240 He was like, guys, we shouldn't go here.

00:13:01.360 This is what the world looks like.

00:13:04.540 And he said, I think Ted Kaczynski just read, like, the first half of the book where I was explaining what can be done.

00:13:12.080 Because in the second half of the book, I'm like, we shouldn't do it.

00:13:17.100 But so he didn't, Ted Kaczynski didn't get it from him.

00:13:21.760 He got this technology from a guy who, you know, has worked for Apple.

00:13:27.420 He's won the biggest case.

00:13:30.100 I think he won a billion-dollar case against Apple for stealing some software.

00:13:37.240 I mean, he's a genius, and he's been warning about it for a long time.

00:13:41.640 And what he says is the same thing that it's going to, guys, you're going to see all of these lines come together.

00:13:50.820 All of these things that are problems, they're all going to come down to one solution.

00:13:55.200 And that solution is you strengthening your core with God.

00:14:02.220 That's it.

00:14:03.200 It's the only thing that's – remember when I said to you, there's going to come a time when you're going to be walking down the street,

00:14:08.860 and you're going to hear, don't go there, turn around.

00:14:11.440 And you've got to stop and turn around and not question that voice.

00:14:15.040 That time is right around the corner.

00:14:18.980 Right around the corner.

00:14:21.900 Profound change is coming.

00:14:23.740 And it doesn't mean that that's bad.

00:14:27.260 It just means that you have to be prepared.

00:14:33.900 This is the best of the Glenn Beck program, and we really want to thank you for listening.

00:14:37.660 I guess I was trending over the weekend, and all for the wrong reasons, because the George Soros money that is, you know, so proudly on display at Media Matters,

00:14:52.140 a group that Hillary Clinton – you know, she doesn't like misinformation – Hillary Clinton, Podesta, and George Soros started.

00:15:01.960 I think it was Podesta, wasn't it?

00:15:03.420 There's three of them.

00:15:04.420 They started Media Matters.

00:15:05.820 And they have spent money to cloud issues because they know Americans really just hear things and move on.

00:15:15.080 I was trending this weekend because apparently I'm an anti-Semite again.

00:15:19.220 And I'm not saying any of this to defend myself.

00:15:23.040 I need you to hear the point.

00:15:25.200 I need you to hear the point.

00:15:27.040 I was talking last week about doctors and how concerned I am about our medical profession.

00:15:36.080 It's happening all over the world. 0.90

00:15:38.440 Norway just cleared the path so you can kill children if they're terminally ill. 0.94

00:15:42.400 Well, this is not a good thing. 0.97

00:15:46.380 It's not a good thing.

00:15:48.760 Every time this happens, it starts with compassion and it ends in mass slaughter.

00:15:55.520 And it is not – usually the ones who lead it are not the Nazis.

00:16:02.140 Okay?

00:16:02.740 They're not.

00:16:04.060 They're the doctors and nurses.

00:16:06.480 They're the scientists.

00:16:07.580 When people say follow the science, that's what it leads to.

00:16:12.400 Okay?

00:16:13.520 And I'm going to teach you some things that maybe you didn't know.

00:16:18.240 You never even heard before.

00:16:21.580 When we got rid of slavery in the United States and the world for the first time started to really turn universally in the Western countries against slavery.

00:16:35.360 When that happened, something else happened right around the same time.

00:16:40.460 And it was the publishing of this book – I tried to get a first edition copy of this the other day – 150,000.

00:16:49.900 So I'm going to stick with our eighth edition copy.

00:16:52.960 A very important book.

00:16:55.200 Origin of the Species.

00:16:56.740 This is Darwin.

00:16:58.580 And most people don't know that Darwin, the name of origin of the species, that's not the full name.

00:17:07.960 By means of natural selection.

00:17:10.820 Okay?

00:17:11.180 Origin of the species by means of natural selection.

00:17:14.240 Maybe people will know that.

00:17:15.940 They don't know or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life.

00:17:25.800 Of favored races.

00:17:29.720 Which means there are favored races.

00:17:33.360 And there are inferior races. 0.94

00:17:35.820 This was the first time science, if you follow the science, it codified it.

00:17:42.200 Then he wrote Descent of Man.

00:17:44.740 And in that, he makes it even more clear that there are inferior races.

00:17:50.760 So if you want to look for the codification, the justification of racism in America and the world, I would say a lot of it is not from, but codified, institutionalized, made okay through Darwin.

00:18:14.580 Because he teaches us favored races.

00:18:20.560 Okay.

00:18:21.940 So what happened from there?

00:18:23.820 Well, the American institutions and the German institutions of higher learning, again, the scientists, the doctors, the anthropologists, the psychiatrists, they all embrace this.

00:18:37.700 And they're like, well, if there's favored races, we've got to get rid of the undesirable races. 1.00

00:18:46.240 Okay?

00:18:47.220 The other was, maybe we can speed up the transition and make everybody part of that favored race.

00:18:55.280 Because, you know, science stuff.

00:18:58.680 So I said last week that it wasn't the Nazis that were killing the people in the Holocaust.

00:19:10.440 It was the Nazi doctors that were doing it. 0.87

00:19:14.440 And I saw a post somebody sent to me and said, Glenn, you should see where were their uniforms.

00:19:22.220 If they were not just doctors, they would have had uniforms.

00:19:30.220 And I'm like, have you ever looked up Joseph Mengele?

00:19:33.460 He was a famous doctor.

00:19:34.500 He's wearing a uniform.

00:19:36.020 I mean, they were high up in the SS.

00:19:37.960 But also, too, my understanding, at least of your, certainly in the context, it seemed that you were indicating at the beginning, right?

00:19:45.440 Like, you know, after a while, they expanded these practices.

00:19:50.580 The ones who brought this, let me just explain.

00:19:53.260 Now, I'm going to use, and I'll tell you what I'm using later, but just for this demonstration, I'm using what some people might think is a sketchy source.

00:20:03.320 Okay?

00:20:03.540 Oh, great.

00:20:04.140 But hear me out.

00:20:06.240 Right.

00:20:06.720 I guarantee somebody is going to complain.

00:20:09.260 They go, that source, that's not.

00:20:10.860 But I'll tell you about that later.

00:20:12.540 Joseph Mengele, one of the most, I'm reading from this website, Joseph Mengele is one of the most famous figures in the Holocaust.

00:20:22.160 His service at Auschwitz and the medical experiments he conducted have made him the most widely recognized perpetrator of the crimes committed in that camp.

00:20:32.620 Because of his infamy, Mengele has been the subject of numerous popular books, films, and television shows.

00:20:38.620 Many of these portrayals distort the real facts of Mengele's crimes and take him out of his historic context.

00:20:47.900 And they portray him as a mad scientist who conducted statistic experiments with no scientific basis.

00:20:58.140 Now, that's an important phrase, isn't it? 0.92

00:21:00.780 People remember him as a crazy.

00:21:05.100 He wasn't.

00:21:06.360 The truth about Mengele is more disturbing.

00:21:11.640 He was a highly trained doctor and medical researcher, as well as a decorated war veteran.

00:21:19.080 He was respected in his field and worked for one of the leading research institutions in Germany.

00:21:25.640 Much of his medical research at Auschwitz supported the work of other German scientists.

00:21:31.340 He was one of dozens of biomedical researchers who conducted experiments on prisoners in Nazi concentration camps.

00:21:39.300 And he was one of a number of medical professionals who selected victims to be murdered in the gas chambers of Auschwitz.

00:21:47.420 OK, Mengele acted.

00:21:49.620 Listen carefully.

00:21:50.760 Now, it's a sketchy source.

00:21:53.080 Mengele acted within the norms of German science.

00:21:59.480 Under the Nazi regime, his crimes represent the extreme danger posed by science when it is conducted in the service of an ideology. 0.78

00:22:12.020 That denies the rights, dignity, and even humanity of certain groups of people.

00:22:23.500 OK.

00:22:24.180 So they were doing experiments, these doctors, just in the camps.

00:22:30.860 This is late.

00:22:32.060 They're doing these experiments and they're doing experiments as physicians on sterilization, how to treat infertility.

00:22:40.040 Also, they were doing drug trials for bear and IB, IG Farben.

00:22:46.560 So bear aspirin, those people were paying these people for research for new drugs.

00:22:54.560 OK.

00:22:56.480 Mengele did not actively support the Nazi party before it came to power.

00:23:01.600 However, in 1931, he joined the Stolheim, the paramilitary of another right-wing party, the German National People's Party.

00:23:13.260 Mengele became a member of the Nazi SA when it was absorbed into the Stalin in 1933.

00:23:19.920 But he ceased his activity in the Nazi party in 1934.

00:23:25.300 During his university studies, however, Mengele embraced racial science.

00:23:30.320 What is that, Stu?

00:23:31.440 What is, again, I'm trying to remember, what is the basis of racial science?

00:23:37.480 I don't know.

00:23:38.060 Is there a subtitle of a particular book that might point to that answer?

00:23:42.280 Like favored races or something?

00:23:43.760 I can't think of one.

00:23:46.300 He believed that Germans were biologically different and superior to members of all other races.

00:23:52.980 Racial science was a fundamental tenet of Nazi ideology. 0.90

00:23:57.360 Hitler used racial science to justify the forced sterilization of persons with certain physical, mental, and physical deformities.

00:24:07.140 The Nuremberg race laws, which outlawed marriage between Germans and Jewish, black, and Romanian peoples, were also based upon favored races. 0.67

00:24:17.480 Just to remind you, there's a very, very expensive book you keep banging on the table.

00:24:22.480 Yes, I do.

00:24:24.200 This is eighth edition.

00:24:25.520 This is still pretty expensive.

00:24:27.000 It is.

00:24:28.220 In 1938, Mengele joined the Nazi party and the SS in his work as a scientist.

00:24:34.940 He sought to support the Nazi goal of maintaining and increasing the supposed superiority of the German race.

00:24:42.540 Mengele's employer, not the German Nazis, his employer and mentor, Dr. Vertuer, he was working at a clinic, and I'll tell you the name of that here when I get to the sources, also embraced biological racism.

00:25:05.980 In addition to conducting research, Vershauer and his staff, including Mengele, provided expert opinions to Nazi authorities who had to determine whether persons were qualified as a German under the Nuremberg laws.

00:25:22.540 So, they were just scientists, and they were getting some funding from the government because their goals matched, and they were getting money from pharmaceutical companies because their goals matched.

00:25:42.100 Not all of them at first.

00:25:44.100 Was it one of these things, though, where, like, all these scientists believe the exact opposite, Nazis come into power, and then all of a sudden they had to change what they believed?

00:25:53.180 Was it that type of situation?

00:25:54.960 No, it really, it really wasn't.

00:25:57.820 Really?

00:25:58.240 Scientists in the biomedical fields, especially anthropologists, psychiatrists, geneticists, many of the medically trained experts played a role in legitimizing these policies and helping to implant them.

00:26:09.480 They'd embrace these ideas before Hitler came to power. 0.88

00:26:13.700 Wait, what was that last part?

00:26:14.600 They embraced these ideas before Hitler took to power, and they would welcome the regime because of its support of eugenics and support of their research. 0.94

00:26:26.860 Wait, not the other way around?

00:26:27.980 Not the other way around.

00:26:29.920 Isn't that weird?

00:26:31.800 Again, you're sourcing on this.

00:26:34.560 I think that's an interesting proposal, but, like, until you hear a source, we can't judge.

00:26:40.660 Well, let me just give you one more thing, okay?

00:26:42.620 Physicians were drawn disproportionately to Nazism due to overcrowding in the profession aggravated by economic depression and as a backlash to the relatively high proportion of Jews in the medical practice.

00:26:58.720 So, it wasn't just the eugenics doctors.

00:27:03.760 It was also 11% of the German physician were Jewish.

00:27:10.760 So, there's a backlash against that.

00:27:12.580 It was a backlash because they were hungry and desperate.

00:27:16.620 And somebody gave them a reason to say, yeah, get them so I can have mine.

00:27:25.900 Now, I'm going to take a break because I just want you to realize what I'm saying here.

00:27:34.260 That it is not just the Nazis.

00:27:37.080 It's the doctors.

00:27:40.460 The doctors had this ideology starting way, way back.

00:27:46.860 And science was unleashed and promoted by a corrupt ideology.

00:27:56.940 They both had many of the same goals.

00:27:59.940 The Nazis just took it further than maybe some, some doctors may have wanted.

00:28:11.000 It's the collusion of government, pharmaceutical companies, the world of science and medicine that brought us the Holocaust. 0.91

00:28:22.300 The best of the Glenn Beck program.

00:28:33.980 Josh, welcome to the program, sir.

00:28:35.440 How are you?

00:28:37.380 Great.

00:28:37.940 Great to be back.

00:28:38.940 Thank you.

00:28:39.440 We were just talking about this particular leaker.

00:28:46.960 He's not a whistleblower.

00:28:48.320 But I don't think he was trying to hurt the United States.

00:28:52.660 I'm not talking about punishment or anything else.

00:28:54.780 I'm just trying to figure him out.

00:28:56.620 Do you have any insight on that?

00:28:58.260 Any thoughts?

00:29:00.020 Right.

00:29:00.600 I mean, listen, as someone who has been on the receiving end of leaks for 20 years, there's basically four motivations.

00:29:07.100 One is that you're trying to vanquish your enemy.

00:29:12.300 One is that you're trying to promote yourself.

00:29:14.560 One is that you're doing it for giggles.

00:29:18.340 And one of it is that you're doing it for money.

00:29:20.460 And it seems based on all the available evidence that he was doing it for his ego, for giggles. 1.00

00:29:26.040 That essentially he's a moron. 1.00

00:29:27.940 Okay. 1.00

00:29:28.580 And it's a sad story because he's 21 years old.

00:29:31.540 Correct.

00:29:31.940 He threw his life away to be a big shot on a Discord server for a few months.

00:29:36.540 And that's a personal tragedy for him and his family. 1.00

00:29:39.400 But I think the point here is that because morons are likely to do moronic things, maybe we shouldn't give access to our top secret information to hundreds of thousands of people who inevitably some will be morons. 1.00

00:29:52.440 Yeah. 1.00

00:29:52.700 And, you know, and so you could blame the moron, sure. 1.00

00:29:56.580 But you should also blame the system that let the moron access all this stuff. 1.00

00:29:59.440 Correct. 1.00

00:30:00.120 Correct.

00:30:01.000 And, you know, all we hear from the administration is, oh, well, nothing went wrong.

00:30:04.540 Well, nothing went wrong.

00:30:06.020 If nobody takes accountability, then nothing will get fixed.

00:30:10.020 And you can't just say that nobody made any mistakes.

00:30:13.760 But that's exactly what this administration is.

00:30:15.240 But then even if somebody didn't make a mistake, I mean, I know they put new traffic lights in all the time here in Texas.

00:30:23.860 You'll be driving down the street and there's no traffic light.

00:30:26.300 And all of a sudden there's a traffic light.

00:30:27.980 Why?

00:30:28.240 Because a lot of people started making mistakes and there were traffic accidents.

00:30:33.720 So nobody made a mistake not putting a light in there in the first place.

00:30:37.640 But once it's exposed as a problem, you change it and put a light in.

00:30:43.460 Nobody did anything wrong.

00:30:45.180 Well, how about the policies?

00:30:46.960 Because it seems like if he was if he was allowed to do this, he shouldn't be.

00:30:52.880 Right. And you can be sure that now the Massachusetts Air National Guard is going to get cut off from some of this stuff.

00:30:59.680 But to be honest with you, Glenn, I've been, again, 20 years of dealing with this kind of information leakage.

00:31:06.700 I'm here to tell you that this happens all the time.

00:31:08.740 You go into any office in the Pentagon, you go to any K Street lobbies, you'll find class.

00:31:13.780 You go into Joe Biden's garage.

00:31:15.260 You go into the Mar-a-Lago Party storage room.

00:31:17.240 Right.

00:31:17.760 You're going to find a lot of secrets just laying around.

00:31:20.200 It's just true.

00:31:21.340 OK, I'm actually surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen every month because of how horribly the handling of this top secret information is done all over our government.

00:31:30.400 Now, that's not to say that there isn't an also a parallel problem here of overclassification.

00:31:35.400 Yes.

00:31:35.760 We're classifying way too much stuff.

00:31:38.360 But then the stuff that's really important to classify, we're not keeping it a secret.

00:31:42.120 So you can have two thoughts in your head.

00:31:44.540 One is that we need to classify less stuff and then take the stuff that's really classified and protected better.

00:31:50.320 But we're doing neither of those.

00:31:51.560 So I haven't really heard from anybody that doesn't have an ax to grind one way or another.

00:31:58.340 Just talk about what he released.

00:32:02.340 Right.

00:32:02.500 What what who did this really hurt?

00:32:07.000 What did we really find out?

00:32:09.880 Right.

00:32:10.400 So I put the disclosures into three buckets.

00:32:13.660 One is stuff we shouldn't know.

00:32:15.900 One is stuff we should have known about.

00:32:18.080 And one is stuff that we already knew about.

00:32:20.040 I'll explain what I mean.

00:32:20.700 Stuff we shouldn't know.

00:32:21.660 Right.

00:32:22.100 When we're spying on top Russian leaders, when we have a mole at the top level of the government of our enemy, that should stay secret.

00:32:28.840 Because once you blurt that out into the world, that guy gets killed.

00:32:32.500 We lose our source and our country's security.

00:32:34.500 So let me make it very simple for everybody.

00:32:36.960 The first rule here is stuff we shouldn't know.

00:32:39.460 That's the knock list that that Tom Cruise protected in Mission Impossible number one.

00:32:45.520 Just saying.

00:32:46.300 Right.

00:32:46.660 All right.

00:32:47.080 So that's bad.

00:32:48.000 He should not have have released that stuff.

00:32:49.820 Then there's the stuff that we should have known about.

00:32:51.760 This is what I reported on, Glenn, that China has tested a new hypersonic missile that can defeat our aircraft carriers and our missile defense.

00:32:58.320 In other words, we spent 30 years building aircraft carriers and missile defense.

00:33:01.700 And the Chinese built a missile for one hundred thousandth of the price that makes those things obsolete.

00:33:07.460 That seems kind of important for people to know.

00:33:09.400 Why were we hiding that?

00:33:10.640 That was in the documents.

00:33:11.560 I brought that out.

00:33:12.580 I think that there's a lot of stuff in the documents that American people should know because it reveals that the world is changing fast.

00:33:18.680 And our government really isn't on top of it.

00:33:20.260 And they need to be.

00:33:21.380 It does make a difference because usually I would say, hey, we don't need to release everything that they have knowing what they have.

00:33:30.380 But I think there is you hit it on the head.

00:33:34.020 There is a need for the American people to understand the world is about to dramatically change.

00:33:40.860 And the United States is sitting around with its hands in its pockets.

00:33:44.500 Right.

00:33:45.040 So maybe we shouldn't build more aircraft carriers.

00:33:46.940 And maybe we should build the stuff that fights hypersonic.

00:33:49.440 Yes.

00:33:49.980 Because that's what our enemies are shooting at.

00:33:51.780 OK, correct.

00:33:52.740 So that's one big thing.

00:33:53.840 The third thing is stuff we already knew.

00:33:55.580 Now, this is like, you know, again, Glenn, we should have learned after like five years of like Russia gave that, like the intelligence officials, when they're predicting the future, they don't really know what the hell they're talking about anymore than you or me.

00:34:07.200 Right.

00:34:07.640 And they're but they have to do it.

00:34:09.220 They have to file these analyst reports every day.

00:34:11.320 And then one of them leaks to Congress like, oh, my God, we figured out the future, but nobody knows the future. 1.00

00:34:15.900 So we know that they're full of crap. 1.00

00:34:17.340 Right. 1.00

00:34:17.600 So it's sort of like, OK, well, what do they do?

00:34:19.900 They had the thing.

00:34:20.780 The Ukraine war is grinding towards stalemate.

00:34:23.000 Yeah.

00:34:23.280 No, no.

00:34:24.240 Yeah.

00:34:25.060 I got it.

00:34:25.920 I got it.

00:34:26.400 I know where you're going.

00:34:27.360 Or, oh, China has China has enough missiles and planes to bury Taiwan under a pile of rubble before they can do it. 0.64

00:34:34.840 That was today's story.

00:34:35.620 Taiwan can't defend itself from China. 0.64

00:34:37.280 Guess what?

00:34:37.860 That's true.

00:34:38.660 It's obvious.

00:34:39.480 Everyone in China knows it.

00:34:40.900 Everyone in Taiwan knows it.

00:34:42.080 So the fact that it got leaked from a document by a bunch of analysts who are probably reading the paper doesn't really bother me.

00:34:48.280 So that's the third.

00:34:49.100 It's like stuff that everybody knows.

00:34:50.560 And I think there is something that, you know, I have no access to secret information, but I think it's it fits into this category.

00:34:58.240 We have no real ability to fight a war with China, especially in Taiwan.

00:35:04.880 We have no ability.

00:35:05.640 We don't have the supply chain.

00:35:07.940 I mean, they could overwhelm us with drones from China.

00:35:12.320 Just just knock us out of the sky with drones like crazy.

00:35:15.900 We're not prepared.

00:35:17.700 So all this talk about a buildup of war with China should be really concerning to the American people when you learn they have missiles like they have hypersonic missiles and we're not prepared just in a supply line for anything that happens in Taiwan. 0.89

00:35:37.420 But nobody's talking about it.

00:35:38.920 Well, Glenn, you're I 100 percent agree with you because I was in Taiwan in November and I went to the front lines of the defenses and I found something that shocked me that the front lines aren't really there, that it doesn't exist.

00:35:52.380 The Taiwanese know that they can't defend from an invasion. 0.86

00:35:55.620 And guess what?

00:35:56.480 Our intelligence community knows that we can't defend from a Chinese invasion. 1.00

00:36:01.060 And, yeah, we're telling ourselves a story in Washington about some sort of fight over Taiwan that doesn't match the reality.

00:36:07.040 Now, there's two things you could do about that.

00:36:09.100 One is you could just admit it and say, OK, well, Taiwan, you guys are on your own.

00:36:13.200 I guess we'll just give all of our semiconductors, you know, to the Chinese and see how that goes. 0.94

00:36:18.740 Or you could fix it.

00:36:20.100 In other words, you could give them the stuff that they need to defend themselves and move our stuff closer to Taiwan to make our deterrence more credible. 0.51

00:36:27.200 All right. Now, again, those are two legitimate arguments.

00:36:31.380 But what we're what we're doing is the worst of both worlds, because we're pretending that we can defend Taiwan when we actually know that we can't.

00:36:38.620 And they know we can't. They know we know it.

00:36:41.580 And the Chinese know it. Right. So they're not deterred.

00:36:44.760 And this is the problem that we made with Putin is we told ourselves that Putin was deterred and he wasn't.

00:36:50.160 And we know he wasn't because he invaded.

00:36:52.180 So what are we going to wait until that happens again?

00:36:54.620 Or are we going to learn that lesson and decide that if we care about these countries and if we're going to make a commitment to defend them?

00:37:00.420 And again, you may say, OK, well, we shouldn't commit that if we can't back it up.

00:37:04.220 Fine. All I'm saying is if we do commit it, then we should back it up.

00:37:08.900 Absolutely. Yes, absolutely.

00:37:10.960 We can't bluff our way through and then fold.

00:37:14.160 We have to back it up.

00:37:15.700 But we're not preparing for any of that.

00:37:19.260 And how far do these missiles fly?

00:37:22.200 And they're they're hypersonic, which I've just heard last week or the week before that we now have one.

00:37:28.860 But I don't know if I believe that this is a hypersonic, which makes it almost impossible to take down.

00:37:36.340 Right.

00:37:37.580 Right. It's hypersonic, which means it flies faster than sound.

00:37:40.680 But it's also a hypersonic glide, which means you can maneuver it.

00:37:43.620 So when we shoot up the missile defense, all we have to do is maneuver around it and we can also they can also maneuver it to hit our aircraft carriers.

00:37:50.720 Basically, as far as Guam, half the Pacific is now, you know, no entry for our aircraft carriers if they decide to use these things.

00:37:57.600 That's a huge problem for Taiwan, but not just for Taiwan, for the entire South China Sea.

00:38:02.040 They're basically taking over Asia while we're sleeping. 0.99

00:38:05.640 OK, and now I'm not saying that we should buy hypersonic missiles to fight hypersonic missiles.

00:38:10.140 I'm saying that we should buy the things or build the things that defend against hypersonic missiles.

00:38:14.800 And so it's complicated and you have to think ahead of your opponent.

00:38:18.360 But right now they're thinking ahead of us.

00:38:20.460 And the scenario is that if China I heard you talk about the timeline, right?

00:38:25.320 The timeline for me is they'll go when they're ready.

00:38:28.080 They're not ready. That's why I don't think they can go this year or next year.

00:38:31.300 Sure, they'd rather do it on a Biden watch than on a Republican watch, but they don't they're not ready yet.

00:38:35.840 So if you if you think about it, they'll probably get ready in about three or four years.

00:38:40.240 That's the best guess. And we don't know who's going to be president then.

00:38:43.120 But that's our timeline to prepare.

00:38:44.660 Oh, that would be that would be a dream come true if that if that's true.

00:38:48.360 And, you know, my sources tell me that they don't have the landing vehicles to be able to do an invasion like that.

00:38:56.800 They could they could clearly wipe everything out and defeat us, but they don't have all of the things they would need to really take that island.

00:39:06.880 Is that the planet? Yes, that's right.

00:39:09.300 But there's three things that the Chinese are doing.

00:39:11.280 One is to prepare the invasion force, which will take three or four years.

00:39:14.580 The second is to prepare economic resiliency.

00:39:16.980 They saw the Putin sanctions and said, not for us.

00:39:19.720 Why do you think they're going around the world, changing all of their business agreements out of U.S. dollars?

00:39:24.500 That's because when they attack, they don't want to be sanctioned.

00:39:27.400 So they're actively trying to protect themselves from sanctions.

00:39:29.880 That's number two. Number three is they're building a thousand new nuclear weapons.

00:39:34.640 Why are they doing that?

00:39:35.780 Why are they building 400 missile silos in the middle of China and then a thousand nuclear warheads?

00:39:41.220 There's only one reason. It's to threaten to attack us if we defend Taiwan. 0.94

00:39:44.900 They're building a nuclear deterrent, an economic resilience and an invasion force. 0.51

00:39:49.960 And all those things coalesce around 2027.

00:39:52.320 And we don't know who's going to be president here.

00:39:54.760 We don't know who's going to be president in Taiwan, but we do know who's going to be president in China.

00:39:59.000 That's the president for life, Xi Jinping.

00:40:00.980 And he wants to do this, and he's going to do this one way or the other.

00:40:04.620 In other words, he might not even attack.

00:40:06.400 If he can get us to not care and get the Taiwanese to switch governments to a pro-China government,

00:40:12.060 then he'll do it without attacking.

00:40:13.600 And he'll just, politically and economically, that's actually better for him.

00:40:17.340 But he reserves the right to attack.

00:40:19.200 So we have to prepare for that, but not only focus on the military part.

00:40:22.900 We have to focus on the economic coercion, the political interference, the cyber warfare.

00:40:27.760 This is how the autocrats wage war. 1.00

00:40:30.100 You know, it's not just guns and missiles and throwing recruits at the problem.

00:40:34.840 They're waging a multi-front hybrid warfare, and we're not sophisticated enough to deal with that, but we need to.

00:40:40.280 So, Josh, one more question on this China thing, and this is a really, this is probably crazy,

00:40:45.900 but if I were president, or somebody in the planning room, if there is one anymore,

00:40:53.760 that it would be saying, okay, we've got to do everything we can to get some very high-tech,

00:40:59.240 the best of the best chip factories here in America.

00:41:03.600 We've got to do everything we can to attract so we can get that high-end chip-making ability 0.72

00:41:10.280 happening here in America as quickly as we can.

00:41:14.160 And then, honestly, the only thing I would do if they, you know, took Taiwan is, 0.76

00:41:20.640 I hate to say this, but I would blow up those chip factories, 0.99

00:41:24.080 because that's really what they want.

00:41:26.940 Right, right.

00:41:27.860 Okay, so, you know, Glenn, I can't lie to your audience.

00:41:30.920 I have to be honest.

00:41:31.880 I just can't help it.

00:41:32.820 We just took our best chance to build the next generation of semiconductor factories

00:41:38.480 in the United States, and we flush it down the toilet.

00:41:40.960 You've heard of this chips bill.

00:41:42.500 It was the first time Congress ever did anything in a bunch of years,

00:41:46.060 and what they did is they spent $50 billion to subsidize the semiconductor industry

00:41:50.440 to build not the latest chips, to build basically the second-tier chips, okay?

00:41:55.400 We've got enough of those.

00:41:56.420 We can make those.

00:41:57.780 We can make those.

00:41:58.420 I mean, we need those, too, but, you know, it doesn't really get at that problem.

00:42:02.100 Now, I saw Tsai Ing-wen, the president of Taiwan, when she was in town,

00:42:05.780 and they asked her, okay, well, you guys make the best chips.

00:42:08.800 Can we make them here?

00:42:09.600 And she said, listen, it's not possible,

00:42:11.060 because we spent 40 years setting up the supply line in the factories,

00:42:14.300 and you can't just pick up all of that stuff and just move it across the world.

00:42:18.040 It doesn't work that way.

00:42:19.100 And we just tried to make this big investment, and we didn't do it.

00:42:22.480 It was a big payoff to these industries, who, by the way, are taking separate money

00:42:26.760 and going to build chip factories in China because they also do business in China, too.

00:42:30.780 So it's kind of a taxpayer subsidy that's being funneled out of the country,

00:42:35.120 but that's a separate issue.

00:42:36.660 What I'm trying to say, to answer your question directly, is that, you know,

00:42:40.200 if China takes Taiwan with those chip factories,

00:42:43.440 then they will control the world economy for the next, let's say, 20 years.

00:42:47.820 Now, if they blow up the chip factories, then we're all screwed.

00:42:51.880 Then, you know, forget about your next generation robotics, your cars, everything.

00:42:57.340 But that's not really a good solution.

00:43:00.120 But, yes, I do think that if the attack is coming, that will be the choice.

00:43:04.100 And to be honest with you, it's up to the Taiwanese. 1.00

00:43:06.580 And the Taiwanese I talked to would rather not blow up their economy,

00:43:09.540 and they would actually rather be subjugated to Beijing than to have no economy at all.

00:43:14.280 And that's, again, a reality that we don't like to talk about in Washington

00:43:17.780 because we like to tell ourselves everything's fine.

00:43:20.200 Everything's not fine.

00:43:21.180 The only real way to save our economy and to not starve our businesses of the next generation technology

00:43:27.680 is to prevent China from attacking Taiwan.

00:43:30.380 And the only way to do that is by upping the deterrence.

00:43:33.460 And that's why we have to be serious about defending Taiwan, not just about talking about it.

00:43:37.480 That's my view.

00:43:38.120 You made this through.

00:43:38.680 That's my view, okay?

00:43:39.920 Because all the alternatives are disastrous.

00:43:41.960 We don't want China in control of Taiwan.

00:43:43.460 Taiwan, that's a disaster for our economy, for our core interests. 1.00

00:43:46.920 And if we blow up the economy, well, that's kind of a nightmare scenario as well.

00:43:51.800 So why don't we just do what we say we're doing,

00:43:54.880 which is to be on Taiwan's side to defend them from getting attacked for no reason?

00:44:00.340 Wait, I don't think I understand.

00:44:02.420 Wait, you mean like let your yes be yes and your no be no?

00:44:06.580 Do what you say and say what you mean and mean what you say.

00:44:09.180 Wow.

00:44:09.580 That would be a revolution in American foreign policy.

00:44:11.980 I haven't seen you 25 years.

00:44:14.000 I don't know about you, but why don't we try it just for once?

00:44:17.100 I know, but the other is working so well, Josh.

00:44:20.900 It's working so well.

00:44:23.380 It's just crazy.

00:44:24.820 Josh, thank you so much.

00:44:25.820 I appreciate all your analysis and your hard work.

00:44:28.420 Josh Rogan, the name of his book is Chaos Under Heaven,

00:44:31.720 and it talks all about China and what we're really facing.

00:44:37.040 Josh Rogan, you can follow him.

00:44:38.780 He is a columnist for The Washington Post.

00:44:42.140 Na, na, na, na.

The Glenn Beck Program - April 17, 2023

Best of the Program ｜ Guest： Josh Rogin ｜ 4⧸17⧸23

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