Best of the Program ｜ Guest： Sharyl Attkisson ｜ 11⧸21⧸19
Episode Stats
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Summary
Glenn Beck is joined by Jason and Jason as they discuss the latest in the Russia/Podesta scandal and the latest on the impeachment hearings. They also discuss Rudy Giuliani's exclusive interview with CNN's Cheryl Atkinson and how she broke down what's happening on Capitol Hill.
Transcript
00:00:00.620
Holy great podcast, Batman. It's a great podcast today. I thought yesterday was the big show.
00:00:08.720
Today may be the big show. It may be a big show double whammy this week because we have Cheryl Atkinson on.
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Rudy Giuliani is in an exclusive interview. Kind of takes down and breaks the whole thing up of what's happening on Capitol Hill.
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I about lose my wig. Honestly, I my head almost exploded during the impeachment hearings.
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You'll understand when you hear it all on today's podcast.
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You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.
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Oh, I cannot look at Adam Schiff anymore. I can't. I can't do it.
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Uh, I look at him and I'm freaked out by his goo goo googly eyes.
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Uh, and please, I'm just asking for the love of heaven.
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Do not let him have children with Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez because the child will look like Mike.
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It just be one eyeball that is just, oh, all right.
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Uh, today, um, we are going to learn from the committee how Russia's the only one who was trying to affect us.
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There's no way anybody could possibly do that in Ukraine.
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I thought the whole story was that they weren't, that everyone in Ukraine was incredibly corrupt.
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They're good. They're Boy Scouts on the election, even though two of them were sentenced to prison.
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And do we have the tape? Could we just play the, I just want to, oh, here's, here's the director of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine,
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which was set up by the Obama administration and the Soros people, uh, to root out corruption.
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So their handpicked guy is Artem Stynik, uh, and, uh, how do I say it? What's his name?
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By the way, he's the director of the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, started by us!
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Uh, that he actually helped the Hillary Clinton campaign.
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Oh, yeah, that's right. He's bragging about how he was working to, uh, to throw the Hillary Clinton campaign.
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Now, if you don't think that that they had any reason, you think that was just bribery or whatever.
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No, no, no. All of these people, because they are all George Soros people,
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all these people felt that Donald Trump was just going to be the worst guy ever for Ukraine,
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because he's too pro-Russia, uh, too pro-Russia.
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So, their country, they believed, was at stake because he was just not going to do anything.
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We're only getting blankets from the Obama administration.
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He went in and gave them the weapons that Obama wouldn't give them.
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So, they were all motivated to make sure that Hillary Clinton, uh, was, uh, was the next president.
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Here he is admitting it, the head of the Anti-Corruption Bureau, that he's the guy who, who did it.
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Okay, I insist that you call me Doctor as well.
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Uh, so, Dr. Hill is going to tell us how there is nothing going on in Ukraine today.
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Jason is our head, uh, researcher, uh, and, and has been absolutely brilliant on putting this story together.
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We have another, you know, I can't call them specials anymore because really every show that you're watching, because this is so fast and furious, every show you're watching, if you missed it last night, you missed Rudy Giuliani.
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We're going to go through that phone call from him yesterday, uh, on the TV show.
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Now, of course, all the people who didn't listen to it just saw me doing it with Rudy Giuliani.
00:05:03.920
We're like, oh, it's just a conspiracy theory and you don't have any facts.
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Anybody who is actually cares what the truth, anybody who says, yes, Dr. Franklin, Dr. Franklin, uh, I know we have a republic and I know what it takes to keep it.
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I actually have to be well-informed and look at all of the evidence to keep a republic.
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Well, we have initially, we're just going to talk about George Kent because his name kept popping up.
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That's kind of what first put him on my, on my radar.
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They were talking about the guy's bow tie in the New York times.
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They wrote an entire column about the guy's bow tie.
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They wrote an entire column about the guy's water bottle in the post.
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Well, they were making him out to be this ultimate debunker of all these, you know, lunas,
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all this lunacy, all these conspiracy theories.
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And the more we dug into him, the more this became less just, again, focusing on one single
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thing in George Kent, but everything surrounding the man.
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And then everything that was updated from our special last week.
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Something was happening towards Soros' grand strategy while you were on stage.
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And while I, I believe I either asked before we went on the special, or I asked off the
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top of my head during the special, what is it that Soros is going to buy?
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He says, oh, I, I, the spooky dude's going to write big checks and I'll write checks in,
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I prefer write checks to Czech Republic because I think it's funny, but I going to disrupt
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And he said, he's going to write checks and he's going to, he's going to buy into their
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Are you going to expose this tonight or can I talk about this now?
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And all the documentation is there and people in Ukraine are standing up going, help us.
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You've got to watch every single show that we do in the afternoons because don't think
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Every single show is like a special now because we are so deep into this.
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If you watch the special last week, the, the parts of the plan are still happening by
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I will tell you, I haven't even told you this yet.
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I need you to shore this up with evidence, but I can tell you what the end game is of
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I asked, I asked this question on the air yesterday of myself.
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And I know Soros will have his fingers all over it.
00:08:07.880
And I need you to look into certain places and I'll tell you off the air, but I'm going
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to tell you on the air today, what I think the end game is.
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I'm going to tell you what the next year and the next 18 months, what's going to happen
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with the Democrats and, uh, and Donald Trump, the election, all of it.
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Anyway, if you used to watch us on Fox and you were like, oh, this, that when the chalkboard
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is out, it's the best when he's trying to break things down.
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I'm doing the best work I've ever done in my career.
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Mike in Florida city, just watched the Ukrainian special.
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Um, I, I watched that special and obviously it makes your head spin.
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I mean, you, you did a great job of piecing it all together and I feel like I need to
00:09:09.100
watch it like five more times to really get a handle on what you said there.
00:09:13.020
But my question is, have you, since you put that out, have you been contacted by any politicians
00:09:18.960
to question the validity, validity of your information?
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And are there any plans to get you to testify when the Republicans ever get the opportunity
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No, and I wouldn't, I wouldn't, you shouldn't call me.
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I would be discredited immediately as a conspiracy theorist and everything else.
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I would be a bad witness, a bad choice for the Republicans to call, but I can tell you
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the names of people they should call that have actual firsthand knowledge of all of this
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Um, there have been two Republicans, uh, that have reached out to me and asked me for
00:10:00.760
I have, I have talked to friends on Capitol Hill and said, what the EFF is wrong with
00:10:11.080
And the story that I get back is Glenn, it's so complex.
00:10:17.140
It's going to look like a, a crazy, crazy conspiracy theory.
00:10:24.620
And I learned something from Rudy Giuliani last night.
00:10:32.980
Um, go to YouTube or if you're, are you a subscriber to the blaze?
00:10:40.400
I mean, seriously, what is, I mean, we're here pouring our heart out.
00:10:44.940
Look, Mike, don't hang up the phone after I'm done.
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Producers get him set up for a year, uh, subscription to the blaze.
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You can see most of it on, um, on YouTube because we streamed it live on YouTube and
00:11:07.700
And so we went extra, uh, and you can find all the extra on blaze, but it's only on the,
00:11:16.640
One thing that everybody says about Rudy Giuliani lately is the guy's gone nuts.
00:11:23.200
He's like flailing and yelling and screaming, right?
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That's what everybody, that's what everybody says.
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I can tell you what's happened to him because the real Rudy Giuliani, the one I know from
00:11:39.080
the past, America's neighbor, uh, mayor, he showed up last night and I figured out what
00:11:52.780
Uh, so Stu, as you were watching this show unfold yesterday with Rudy Giuliani, did you
00:12:14.580
It seemed like he knows the details of this very well.
00:12:18.720
Now, if you have, if you have spent, uh, two years of your life and you're doing the detective
00:12:30.120
work, okay, and you're going in and you're get, you're gathering all of the information
00:12:36.140
and you're having to deal with dirt bags, liars, thieves, trying to figure out what's
00:12:44.020
You've put your whole life into it for a two year period, 18 month period, and you're getting
00:12:50.640
hammered and you knew you're going to get hammered, but you're a prosecutor.
00:12:55.040
You're one of the, you're the guy who put the Gambino crime family away.
00:12:59.680
So you've got credibility and you're like, okay, but if I get the evidence, they're going
00:13:18.140
They'll talk about the hearsay of this person, but they won't look at actual paper documents
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and court records that totally shift this narrative.
00:13:29.940
And now you're on TV and you know, you have four minutes and the person is like, yeah,
00:13:36.340
But why are you bringing out the whistleblower?
00:13:39.980
Well, you know, you're in bed with all these really bad people.
00:13:46.740
Yesterday, Ricky, who is the executive producer of the show, she came in afterwards and she
00:13:54.960
stood there and she looked at me and she shook her head and she said, I just witnessed, I
00:14:00.920
just witnessed a therapy session with two people who are so close to the edge because they have
00:14:09.780
the facts and no one will listen and the country is at stake.
00:14:16.320
And it seems that we all know it's corrupt in Ukraine, but it's just as corrupt here.
00:14:22.740
And you really didn't think it would be that way.
00:14:26.160
And no one, even the people supporting the president are really interested in the truth.
00:14:33.520
She said, the two of you were like, right, right.
00:14:37.380
And he would say something to me and I'm like, I know.
00:14:40.580
And then this, and it was a chance for him to not have three minutes that he had to jam in
00:14:49.180
this big, complex thing and try to convince someone he could lay the facts out.
00:14:55.620
He knew, he knew instantaneously because he had watched the specials.
00:15:04.060
Uh, and that gave him the opportunity to be the prosecutor that he's always been.
00:15:14.620
The press has just, and this is my opinion, has frustrated him to the level of, of just
00:15:28.520
The, uh, hearing is about to begin with Fiona Hill, who's got some really exciting stuff
00:15:35.600
to tell us that it's Russia and Ukraine didn't do anything in 2016.
00:15:50.440
Hey, it's Glenn and you're listening to the Glenn Beck program.
00:15:53.420
If you like what you're hearing on this show, make sure you check out Pat Gray Unleashed.
00:15:57.720
It's available wherever you download your favorite podcasts.
00:16:01.920
So yesterday, and we are going to break in if they're saying anything important on Capitol
00:16:15.220
One, I think actually interesting thing is we were talking about this last hour.
00:16:18.580
It's been widely reported that Holmes was a big note taker.
00:16:21.120
This is the guy that overheard the call with Ambassador Sondland.
00:16:24.900
Where Trump was, you know, kind of screaming into the phone and he heard it at the table.
00:16:30.140
We were told he took notes, uh, apparently did not take notes about that call.
00:16:38.420
Did take notes about a meeting he was at, um, with Zelensky the day after the call with
00:16:44.060
Trump and which Zelensky apparently said reportedly, according to Holmes, during the meeting, President
00:16:48.720
Zelensky stated during the 25th of July call, President Trump had three times raised some
00:16:54.680
very sensitive issues in this quote, but he would have to follow up on those issues when
00:17:00.680
Um, of course, Holmes had no idea what those sensitive issues were because he was not on
00:17:05.180
the actual call, but that is the only, well, I have an update on President Zelensky and that
00:17:10.680
I have additional insight about that phone call July 25th on something the president was
00:17:22.960
I will show you the actual evidence of it tonight at five o'clock.
00:17:32.840
It's full of facts tonight that you need to know, especially about the bow tie wearing
00:17:41.700
Um, all right, let me go over what happened last night on blaze TV with me and Rudy Giuliani.
00:17:50.240
I, I talked to him about a lot of stuff, but I wanted to get a few things out at the beginning.
00:17:58.100
For instance, uh, the Democrats are saying you're running a shadow foreign policy.
00:18:07.100
Listen, the testimony today was that, um, you were communicating with the Ukrainians without
00:18:20.660
So I take it by your laugh that that's not true.
00:18:30.600
What did the president ask you to do in Ukraine?
00:18:37.640
Part one was my investigation as a defense lawyer to gather exculpatory evidence, evidence
00:18:47.900
So remember this began while Moa was still investigating Russian collusion, November, 2018.
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They were seeking answers for us from us on Russian collusion.
00:19:01.740
Also, Mr. Weissman, who is a completely out of control, unethical prosecutor who worked
00:19:08.500
for, uh, Mueller had been questioning Manafort in what I consider to be a horrific manner.
00:19:17.480
He would take him out every couple of days and he would say to him, warrant you the link
00:19:23.680
And then when he said no, he put him back in solitary confinement, basically telling Manafort,
00:19:29.680
if you'd like to, you know, stop being locked up for 23 hours a day, just lie to me.
00:19:34.200
So I knew they were hot and heavy on this Russian collusion thing, even though I knew 100% it
00:19:42.520
So when I got this evidence about Ukrainian collusion, in which they mentioned that Joe
00:19:48.940
Biden was involved in developing some of the collusion, I jumped on it and I started to
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find people in Ukraine that were willing to come over and to talk to me about it.
00:19:59.340
People who told me that they had been blocked from coming here by the American embassy, specifically
00:20:05.440
by the ambassador, Yovanovitch, because she and her embassy were involved in collecting
00:20:12.820
There was a particular FBI agent named Greenaway, who they said was very involved in collecting
00:20:21.320
not only the dirty information, but fraudulent information on Manafort.
00:20:26.380
She had since gone to work for George Soros, which gave it its own interesting flavor.
00:20:32.320
And she was working at the Anti-Corruption Bureau, was she not?
00:20:35.380
She was working at what the Anti-Corruption Bureau is a contradiction.
00:20:39.660
The Anti-Corruption Bureau was set up by George Kent, who was one of the witnesses here.
00:20:45.280
I mean, when I was looking at him, I was like in shock that he's still at the State Department.
00:20:52.460
They took all the corruption cases away from the prosecutor general.
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They gave it to the Anti-Corruption Bureau, and they got rid of all the cases that offended
00:20:59.520
Soros, and they included all the cases against Soros' enemies.
00:21:03.300
One of the first cases they dismissed was a case in which his NGO, Antak, was supposed
00:21:10.180
to have embezzled a lot of money, but not only that, collected dirty information on Republicans
00:21:18.480
to be transmitted, gotten by Ukrainians, to be transmitted to this woman, Alexandra Chalupa,
00:21:26.860
and other people who worked for the Democratic National Committee.
00:21:30.360
Okay, a couple of things that you learned there.
00:21:35.440
If you've watched our specials, you really learned, I think, one new thing.
00:21:46.220
I mean, I don't understand what he was doing there.
00:21:50.640
I pressed him about the two bad guys that they're smearing him with.
00:21:57.320
I mean, but we've said, in fact, Stu and I talked about this just the other day.
00:22:05.280
Why wouldn't Trump just make him the head of the State Department?
00:22:11.480
He wanted to get the job right at the beginning of the administration.
00:22:15.720
This has been framed that Rudy Giuliani was going over to do something with foreign policy.
00:22:24.480
He was going over during the Mueller investigation to, as the president's personal attorney, to show he didn't do this.
00:22:38.320
So he was going over because he knew that the Steele dossier was connected to Ukraine.
00:22:45.780
So he's going over and trying to build a case that, no, none of this stuff in the Steele dossier is true.
00:22:57.780
It has nothing to do with the State Department.
00:23:01.600
And while you may agree or disagree, I'm sure the media would be like, oh, well, I disagree with what he thinks he found in Ukraine.
00:23:08.980
The bottom line is it's a very understandable role for a personal attorney.
00:23:13.160
Your job as a personal attorney is to find the best defense possible for your client.
00:23:17.520
So now that clears things up to where, like, why was he even over there?
00:23:24.640
He was being the president's personal attorney.
00:23:27.260
He was building a case against Mueller's case, which ended up being nothing.
00:23:33.860
But in that journey, he found all these things and was bringing those things to the president as a personal attorney.
00:23:45.060
And it also shows that the State Department, by saying he's running a shadow policy, it shows they need you to believe.
00:23:58.620
They need you to believe that he was over there meddling in State Department affairs and he was just this wild hand grenade.
00:24:11.260
Yeah, he might have been a wild hand grenade for you because you were covering additional things up.
00:24:20.120
But they've spun this to make it seem like, yep, he's the guy.
00:24:25.960
He definitely seems to be the target of a lot of the witnesses.
00:24:28.440
You know, especially at the State Department, who are saying we are very frustrated because, you know, Rudy, whatever he's doing, it's different than what we're doing.
00:24:36.260
And the Ukrainians are confused, which seems to be the point they keep coming back to, which is, again, you can argue that it's a bad idea, but you can't argue it's impeachable.
00:24:48.480
Okay, I'm going to take a quick break because Hill is, Dr. Hill, is giving her testimony right now, and I think this is important to hear because this will be the testimony where she is trying to make the case that Russia was the only one that was interfering in 2016.
00:25:08.400
And that's everything else Trump is bringing up is just a conspiracy theory.
00:25:13.640
She's getting they're getting ready to ask her some questions here.
00:25:16.420
So we will take a one minute break and then write to the testimony.
00:25:20.560
You might have heard the other day when Stu challenged me to a race in our cars.
00:25:29.160
As soon as it starts to warm up, we got to make sure there's no ice or anything on the on the 78 degrees.
00:25:39.580
So in January and February gets cold, but we are on.
00:25:44.480
Anyway, Mr. Big Talk says, you know, we'll get it all set up.
00:25:51.140
And then I hear him conspiring yesterday with somebody going, I'm thinking about souping up my car.
00:26:08.000
At a very high speed, because I'm going to whoop your butt.
00:26:12.800
If you miss, by the way, America, I just I'm for the first time in my career.
00:26:19.640
Uh, I can't take the impeachment hearings anymore today.
00:26:29.320
And it's what that is, is nothing but disinformation.
00:26:33.700
Uh, I, I refuse to carry it because it is, you know, you're talking about the Russians.
00:26:41.720
This is American disinformation and I won't carry it.
00:26:47.180
I can't do it without correcting every sentence they have because of the, the facts are out.
00:26:53.900
But there's too much in your head about this story to even to break this down.
00:26:57.940
Well, you can go, we can go through the important parts of it.
00:27:09.660
Almost every show we're doing now on TV because we, I'm doing the best work of my career.
00:27:20.160
And if you liked those shows where we were showing you connecting all the dots, you like
00:27:26.820
those shows we used to do on Fox right now, every episode is like a special.
00:27:31.620
So make sure you join the blaze, watch it, um, and join us every night at five o'clock because
00:27:54.280
Um, we ran out of time, so I had to shoot some extra things and that's on the blaze behind
00:28:00.380
the paywall, but I'm going to take you through some of it.
00:28:02.880
Uh, here is what, uh, here's what Rudy Giuliani said to me yesterday when we were talking about
00:28:10.720
In November of 2018, this is before, this is before, uh, Biden was running for president.
00:28:24.260
A former colleague of mine called me with information.
00:28:28.260
The information was just to shorten it a bit that you won't believe it.
00:28:32.820
There's a lot of, uh, so-called collusion that went on in, in Ukraine, not in Russia,
00:28:41.120
It looks like it was really going on in Ukraine.
00:28:43.340
It included not just a server issue and the, uh, hiding of the server.
00:28:48.780
It included specific information that was developed by the Ukrainians that was turned
00:28:57.440
And that was used to try to, uh, stop Trump from getting elected used in mid, uh, 2016.
00:29:05.860
It also included, um, very strong evidence that a lot of the Steele dossier, uh, was produced
00:29:18.760
And also things I didn't know, like Glenn Simpson spent a fair amount of time there during the
00:29:26.680
And that the document that reopened the Manafort investigation went through the Glenn Simpson
00:29:34.440
company and that there were real questions about whether it wasn't a fraud and also no
00:29:41.940
question at all that it had been improperly used and leaked to the press in May of 2016.
00:29:48.320
So the New York times could write a story basically saying Trump has crooked campaign manager.
00:29:56.140
So when I got all that evidence as a defense lawyer, I said to myself, hallelujah, I now have
00:30:04.420
I can go prove somebody else committed this crime.
00:30:07.720
I want to take you to, uh, the section where I, I asked him about the whistleblower.
00:30:14.140
He, he didn't play along with me, but as I asked him a follow-up question, it's important
00:30:26.480
Listen, do you know the name of the whistleblower?
00:30:29.960
And if it's, uh, Eric, uh, Caramella, just cough.
00:30:34.820
I won't, I won't say if I do, or I don't know the name of the whistleblower.
00:30:40.160
I don't know all the facts that I would like to know about the whistleblower.
00:30:44.120
But what I do know is I no longer call him a whistleblower.
00:30:47.580
When I write op-ed pieces or give lectures or talks on this, I refer to him as the anonymous
00:30:53.500
Well, he is, if it is the guy, Eric Caramella, who we think it is, his fingerprints are all
00:31:03.780
Uh, the throwing of the election, the, uh, the stopping of, uh, of prosecution.
00:31:10.620
I mean, he's in the middle of almost all of this stuff.
00:31:15.900
So if Eric Caramella is not the whistleblower, are you aware of Eric Caramella's role?
00:31:28.220
I think, I don't know if Ron responsibly I can comment on this part of it.
00:31:33.160
I can't tell you without being able to back this part up with facts right now that I am
00:31:39.560
entirely convinced that this whole episode is just, you know, uh, one chapter in at least
00:31:48.120
a three or four chapter plan, which I guess was best described by struck to prevent him
00:31:54.460
from being president and then should he become president, the insurance policy to remove him.
00:32:00.320
And this, this Ukrainian stage also had a pre-election stage because the, the black
00:32:08.420
ledger against Manafort, which turns out to be a fraud.
00:32:12.920
Well, hang on before you say that, before you say that, delivered to the New York times
00:32:26.640
Uh, in fact, I think he, I think play this cut.
00:32:33.120
The FBI had a case that was two years old on Manafort, went back to 2014.
00:32:40.480
This, this, uh, rogue FBI agent Greenaway is now working for Soros, wanted to reopen
00:32:50.360
And when they, when this, when this meeting took place in January of 2016 at the NSC, what
00:32:57.560
the, the Obama people were asking the Ukrainians to do, to go get us bad information on Manafort
00:33:07.720
And lo and behold, this black ledger shows up on the doorstep of a parliamentarian who
00:33:15.080
then brings it to the prosecutor, but also doesn't forget to bring it to the New York
00:33:21.240
So, and that's what they got convicted for in Ukraine.
00:33:25.000
Weren't they involved in leaking the black ledger?
00:33:29.420
And we haven't revealed this yet on the chalkboard.
00:33:32.780
It's a fact we found out about a week ago or two weeks ago.
00:33:36.480
Um, and we were going to include it on a Soros, uh, section.
00:33:41.740
So the anti-corruption bureau, this is something that they're all like, we've got to talk about
00:33:47.420
They're just, they're pursuing cases that had nothing to do with anything.
00:34:00.520
The state department, the Obama administration, and George Soros worked together to form this
00:34:09.220
It's, it's, it was a shadow prosecutor's office and they would decide what's worth pursuing
00:34:19.000
Now, if you're doing criminal activity or you want investigations on people, it's good to
00:34:24.940
have your own little shadow, uh, shadow justice department, isn't it?
00:34:32.160
Um, the new name that you heard was, uh, Greenaway.
00:34:36.140
She is a, an FBI agent that was assigned to this anti-corruption bureau.
00:34:42.680
So she was going over to help teach them all about corruption and how to look into cases.
00:34:52.540
Uh, she's the one that went and helped gather the information on, uh, the ledger along with
00:35:03.940
the guy who is the head of the anti-corruption, uh, bureau.
00:35:09.500
So she has the connection back to the DOJ and says, we have information that he has not paid
00:35:18.040
And we could open a case on him if we could get any kind of evidence, uh, on, uh, taxes.
00:35:26.080
Because there was already an old case that had been dismissed, but they could reopen it
00:35:37.000
So they had the evidence they felt to convict him.
00:35:42.780
So she tells the Sitnik, the guy who's the head of the anti-corruption bureau, he goes
00:35:48.700
and he, he finds information in this black ledger.
00:35:53.220
The black ledger is then dropped off at the New York times and given to the justice department
00:36:01.020
Now, so, you know, Greenaway has since left and she works for the George Soros organization.
00:36:07.560
Um, the guy who discovered the black ledger and then dropped it off, went to, uh, court
00:36:16.020
and was convicted of interfering in a U S election because of the black ledger.
00:36:23.320
He gave the black ledger to the justice and to the New York times with the intent of discrediting
00:36:32.120
The, the Ukrainian DNC reason for that was to discredit Donald Trump.
00:36:37.740
Look, he's working with crazy people who love Russia.
00:36:44.940
The FBI agent said we can open up a case and nail him when they went to court.
00:36:53.900
The prosecution didn't use a single word from the black ledger, not one word.
00:37:06.180
They got him on income tax evasion on an old case that they had already had of $12 million.
00:37:21.480
When they got to trial, they threw the black ledger out because it was not true or at least
00:37:28.720
so sketchy that they couldn't, they didn't want to use it because they, they thought it
00:37:38.000
And, and then the whole case would be thrown out.
00:37:40.700
I feel like I'm like jumping into like Godfather three and I don't understand any of the characters.
00:37:50.720
But which direction is it going to hurt the president's case or to help the president's case?
00:37:59.400
If you listen to them, they keep focusing on like, I was at the table.
00:38:07.540
Well, I don't think that's what happened, but he's a great note taker.
00:38:13.300
Well, I didn't take any notes, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.
00:38:18.680
We're talking about the throwing of an election and our government paying for it.
00:38:25.580
Our state department involved in revolution in Ukraine, that we are the ones that trained
00:38:37.680
Now you can agree and say, well, that's a good thing or a bad thing.
00:38:48.000
Because it's happening all over the world and we have the evidence of it.
00:38:53.460
I think there's a fundamental issue here, which is the argument you're making is that
00:39:01.460
we should be looking into these things because they're important for America in a big time
00:39:22.940
And if you like what you hear on the program, you should check out Pat Gray Unleashed.
00:39:27.320
His podcast is available wherever you download your favorite podcast.
00:39:32.260
If you're a subscriber to the podcast, can you do us a favor and rate us on iTunes?
00:39:36.780
If you're not a subscriber, become one today and listen on your own time.
00:39:42.780
For 30 years, Cheryl Atkinson was a was a correspondent and an anchor at CBS News, PBS, CNN.
00:39:53.300
And boy, and then they found out she wasn't crazy progressive.
00:40:00.180
She was actually looking for the truth no matter where the chips fell.
00:40:12.780
The information superhighway really gave her home.
00:40:17.980
Now she also has her her own show with Sinclair called Full Measure.
00:40:34.400
I'm I'm interested in in in hearing your theory and what you found in with the State Department and shadow diplomacy.
00:40:44.340
Well, let me just say that I typically without trying to be in sort of a contrarian, I see something entirely different than what I think even some of the Republicans see when I listen to these hearings.
00:40:56.440
And it is sort of the last gasp of the persistent bureaucracy within the State Department.
00:41:04.840
Speaking against a president who came in and did exactly what he said he was going to do.
00:41:12.640
And I would go so far as to say there have been some key admissions by our diplomats that they took actions contrary to what they understood the president's foreign policy desires were, which I believe is extra constitutional and perhaps worse.
00:41:26.800
But they seem to think, we've now heard it stated explicitly, they think the bureaucrats, they run the show and the president works for them.
00:41:36.180
And they're out of their minds when he didn't see things the way they wanted him to see them.
00:41:42.740
The State Department has a lot invested in Ukraine and and a policy called Civil Society 2.0 that was designed by Hillary Clinton when she was at the State Department, Barack Obama and and some other some other figures that usually only belong in conspiracy theories like George Soros.
00:42:06.100
Uh, and they have set this course up as a matter of policy and they spoke about it at the time, Cheryl, with, uh, with people who were in the room helping design it, that they needed it to be institutionalized so it wouldn't matter what presidents would do when they came in and went.
00:42:27.340
And that's not what the State Department is supposed to do.
00:42:31.960
The State Department works for the president, not for themselves, unelected officials.
00:42:44.960
And I would also point out, I looked at the disclosures the other day for the Foreign Agents Registration Act.
00:42:50.880
This is where foreign countries disclose the lobbying, the foreign agents they're hiring here in the U.S. to lobby for their interest.
00:42:59.000
Most countries have in this congressional summary maybe a page of people they've hired, you know, to do certain things.
00:43:07.160
It has pages and pages of people it's hired in the last few years to lobby journalists and members of Congress to make contributions, all kinds of things.
00:43:16.540
And I don't think that's any coincidence that everybody is advocating.
00:43:20.000
It looks to me like these State Department officials.
00:43:21.920
It sounds to me like they're advocating for Ukraine and trying to change the president's mind.
00:43:29.540
I mean, here's the thing that is lost on me, why people can't connect here.
00:43:45.880
You cheat on me, and I'm probably not going to hang around.
00:43:49.380
I might add that it's controversial when there is not a precondition for foreign aid or a white.
00:43:56.780
It's controversial at times if there haven't been conditions set.
00:44:02.260
Why would we just give money away, especially to a country that all sides, even Ukrainians say, corrupt as hell?
00:44:15.260
And something new has arisen the last day and a half, at least in my mind.
00:44:21.460
There is such an effort by these diplomats to make sure no one would commit in Ukraine to a corruption investigation or look into election meddling in 2016.
00:44:38.520
Left-leaning Politico concluded there was based on firsthand interviews.
00:44:44.260
What's the harm of having the investigation that would show that?
00:44:47.200
Why are they so hell-bent on keeping the president of Ukraine from committing to any investigation into corruption or 2016 or Burisma?
00:44:57.180
Cheryl, I would love to have your brain around this.
00:45:00.500
May I send you a box of documents from the State Department, from the court system in Ukraine, along with videotape of what we have on officials admitting to these things?
00:45:21.860
And it is if if this becomes just about Donald Trump, my opinion, Cheryl, on this whole thing is if Donald Trump was doing something wrong, illegal, then he should pay the price.
00:45:34.420
If the Democrats were doing something wrong or legal, they should pay the price.
00:45:37.800
But we need to overturn every stone because our republic is at stake, just like with Russia.
00:45:45.680
If Donald Trump was colluding with Russia, he should have been impeached.
00:45:56.260
Well, and I'm I'm concerned that the persistent bureaucracy has been quite effective in punishing anybody around President Trump so far that has gone off script of what they want to happen.
00:46:08.560
And if they're able to make it where a president can't institute foreign policy, can't call for investigations into corruption, can't condition aid.
00:46:16.260
I mean, we've been given up any notion that the Constitution that says the president determines foreign policy is at play.
00:46:23.520
We've basically been said, no, today, the bureaucracy decides these things.
00:46:30.100
Cheryl, can I tell you something that President Bush told me in the Oval Office?
00:46:33.160
I was there the day that Barack Obama, who was then trailing Hillary Clinton, he said that, you know, if I if I had charge, I would I would send our jets.
00:46:48.120
If if I want to find, you know, the bad guys and they're in Afghanistan, I'll just send the jets over.
00:46:54.600
And this is at the time where we kind of thought that maybe Afghanistan was kind of an ally.
00:47:00.280
And I said, Mr. President, I mean, can we do that?
00:47:07.700
And he looked at me and he tried to comfort me and it spooked the hell out of me.
00:47:14.640
I don't care who sits in this chair when they do.
00:47:18.940
They will be advised by exactly the same people.
00:47:22.080
They'll see the same facts and they'll realize the president's hands are pretty tied.
00:47:30.140
Well, can you imagine being an outsider like Trump who comes in to change that, who understands that and thinks it's harmful to the nation?
00:47:40.440
And I have good authority that says he whispered in his own office when he met with certain people because other people were listening who worked for him.
00:47:48.880
And he didn't trust and you want to do things, but nobody around you supports it.
00:47:55.940
This is what I think, you know, term limits are so important, but I think service limits are important.
00:48:02.040
These institutions, if you've been there and you've seen five presidents come and go, what do you care what the president said?
00:48:15.680
And the programs, again, please, I'll send you the information.
00:48:21.500
Look up Civil Society 2.0 and what they were really doing and what they still are doing in Chile.
00:48:35.720
And the president may or may not even know it, but that's that is truly what they're covering here.
00:48:43.000
And every single one of these people that are been testifying, they're all involved in it.
00:48:51.320
I have emails that through FOIA requests that have come from them and I have the money.
00:49:04.760
It's just that no one will look into it in the press.
00:49:07.520
And I think that's because they've made it about Trump.
00:49:10.940
And I think I did an interview with an author named Thomas Pranawitter.
00:49:17.440
And he touches upon what you're saying, but he goes back historically and says this was designed.
00:49:24.840
By design was thought that there will be bureaucrats, the permanent government, they called themselves,
00:49:30.540
that despite what the election found and we'd be distracted by the elections, the permanent government would be the ones running the show.
00:49:39.040
And I think it's exactly what we're seeing today.
00:49:42.120
It really grew out of Woodrow Wilson's frustration with the League of Nations.
00:49:54.100
And between him and FDR, it just grew into this hydra that now is, I think, beyond most people's comprehension because they don't hear about it ever by design.
00:50:09.660
Well, according to – I just looked up a quick quote from this book, and Crannawitter, the author, said early social scientists sketching out the plan of what an administrative state would look like often used the phrase permanent government and said we'll still have elections, and they're useful because they distract citizens.
00:50:29.700
But what's going to happen is we will be the leviathan of a permanent government in no way affected by the results of the election.
00:50:39.660
It's – I've never – I've been doing my research on this Ukraine thing for about a year, and what we started to find about a year ago was disturbing, and the more we look into it, and it is – it's truly terrifying.
00:50:54.540
If the Senate doesn't pick this up and expose what's going on, if they make this just about Donald Trump, this – all of this stuff is just a show.
00:51:06.540
It's just a show, and nothing's going to really change.
00:51:10.220
The Senate, in the midst of all this in 2015 or 2016, started a Ukrainian caucus.
00:51:17.200
I'm sure that was a result of lobbying and contributions.
00:51:20.600
And I think a lot of them – I'm talking about Republicans – are tied up in this, in the Ukrainian interest in a way we don't understand.
00:51:26.980
And they are not doing much to counter this false narrative that there was no Ukrainian interference in the election.
00:51:33.820
They're kind of sitting silently by with maybe a couple of exceptions.
00:51:39.580
They're not counterpointing some of these things that are not true.
00:51:42.640
So I'm not really confident they're going to do a strong and great job if you're looking at them for a counterpoint.
00:51:50.480
Cheryl, may I have off air – may I have one of my researchers send you a bunch of raw information and give you the outline on it?
00:52:03.060
But I would love for you to see these documents because you are absolutely right, and I think we have proven the case beyond a reasonable doubt with official documents.
00:52:14.040
But there's so much more work to be done on it, and it has to be exposed.
00:52:26.560
She's the host of Full Measure with Cheryl Ackeson and just a really, really very bright woman.