The Glenn Beck Program - Best of The Program ｜ Guests： Dr. Voddie Baucham, Matt Ridley, & Emmanuel Cafferty ｜ 6⧸18⧸20

00:00:00.000 Holy cow, do we have a powerful, powerful show that you don't want to miss.

00:00:04.580 A second of, first of all, we take on Aunt Jemima.

00:00:07.880 I mean, I'm glad she's gone.

00:00:09.680 But what about Mr. Coffee?

00:00:11.780 Also, we have found a guy through some old videos that he made a couple of years ago.

00:00:16.800 He's not even in America anymore.

00:00:18.360 He's out in Africa.

00:00:19.820 We got him on the phone from Africa to tell us all about social justice

00:00:25.900 and what he calls ethnic Gnosticism.

00:00:29.620 It's a powerful interview.

00:00:32.160 Also, we also check in with Matt Ridley on coronavirus and what's the truth and what's not.

00:00:38.100 And the guy who was working for San Diego Gas and Electric

00:00:41.840 that got fired for making a peace sign, which he says he wasn't doing,

00:00:47.000 which is, of course, a racist symbol, according to the guy who was driving next to his truck.

00:00:52.060 But that's not the story at all.

00:00:53.720 He was fired.

00:00:54.560 The person driving next to his truck said, I got it wrong.

00:00:57.000 And now, San Diego Gas and Electric won't hire him back.

00:01:01.420 You won't believe his story.

00:01:03.160 All on today's podcast.

00:01:04.400 You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.

00:01:15.340 We have Dr. Vodibacham on with us.

00:01:19.100 He is the Dean of Theology of African Christian University.

00:01:21.920 He's on Skype with us from Zambia.

00:01:24.720 And I want to talk to you about a couple of things.

00:01:27.700 We have about 15 minutes here left.

00:01:29.400 So can you can you please explain the difference between social justice that a Christian would understand 0.80

00:01:35.660 and the social justice that is now being preached from many of our pulpits that is an anti-Christian message?

00:01:43.280 Well, social justice has been understood clearly for a while.

00:01:54.280 And social justice is distributive justice.

00:01:58.960 Social justice is about redistributing resources and opportunities.

00:02:06.520 Social justice is not the same as the biblical idea and the biblical concept of justice.

00:02:12.600 You also need to understand that social justice is built on the back of critical theory, which is all about the idea of, you know, hegemony and power structures.

00:02:26.800 And hegemony may sound like a big academic word.

00:02:30.260 It just means that there there's a power structure that exists because of the individuals who set the rules of the game.

00:02:37.940 And they did it in order to.

00:02:41.800 The critical theory is Marxist.

00:02:44.120 I just want to throw that in.

00:02:45.340 Correct.

00:02:45.720 That's a Karl Marx theory.

00:02:48.580 Yes.

00:02:49.180 Absolutely.

00:02:49.920 Yes.

00:02:50.180 Most assuredly.

00:02:50.940 All right.

00:02:51.320 Go ahead.

00:02:51.520 Yeah.

00:02:51.680 The idea is that the power structure comes from the elites who establish things.

00:03:00.540 They set the rules of the game and they set the rules of the game in order to benefit themselves and their posterity.

00:03:08.960 And everybody else is oppressed because they're not part of the hegemony.

00:03:13.060 This, by the way, is why women, although they are majority, are considered an oppressed minority because the hegemony is white, male, Christian, heterosexual, cisgendered, you know, on and on and on and on and on.

00:03:27.260 Okay.

00:03:28.300 And so social justice is about really transferring power from those in the hegemony to those in oppressed groups.

00:03:41.080 The individual doesn't matter.

00:03:43.660 And again, this is why this bothers me so much, because as a Christian and as a minister of the gospel, I preach Christ and him crucified.

00:03:53.400 I preach the work that he has done and that we need to receive personally.

00:03:58.520 Secondly, if we get into this critical theory business where everything becomes structural, all of a sudden, this gospel has to either be transformed into something that the Bible doesn't recognize or it has to be cleared out.

00:04:15.260 And so this social justice movement, Black Lives Matter, for example, anyone who reads what they believe will see that they are anti-Christian.

00:04:25.560 They are fundamentally anti-Christian.

00:04:28.080 And so this whole idea, this whole idea of the social justice movement, and I get a lot of flack for it because, you know, either you have conscious bias or unconscious bias, or you have internalized bias if you don't, you know, buy this hegemony, right?

00:04:45.720 You know, so it's interesting how critical theory sort of hedges itself in and protects itself on all sides.

00:04:55.240 Oh, right.

00:04:55.980 It's the same as witch hunts. 0.53

00:04:58.500 It's the same as witch hunts. 0.53

00:04:59.780 I mean, you know, that's exactly what a witch would say. 1.00

00:05:03.360 Well, I mean, how do you defend yourself?

00:05:06.680 So let me ask you, let me ask you, I have two more questions for you.

00:05:11.400 First of all, the people that I know, the white people that I, the Americans that I know, first of all, this is happening all over the world.

00:05:21.340 This is not an American problem.

00:05:23.440 It's not a white person problem.

00:05:25.500 You know, the Chinese have concentration camps for people who are different than them.

00:05:29.700 This is the oldest story, and it is the internal struggle of each individual as well as a society.

00:05:37.780 But the white people that I know, we're all, we're, this is not 1956.

00:05:44.040 It's not 1968.

00:05:45.520 It's not, it's not 1988.

00:05:48.120 We, we're fine.

00:05:50.340 We want people to be equal.

00:05:52.820 This system is corrupted.

00:05:54.780 Our founding system is so corrupted that it is causing all kinds of problems.

00:06:00.040 We've never really, you know, lived up to the Declaration of Independence, but we all want to, or most of us want to.

00:06:07.840 But we feel like we're just absolutely under attack, and this kind of message is going to make race relations much worse.

00:06:17.140 How do we help?

00:06:18.160 How do, what do we do without playing into the evil of Marxism?

00:06:24.780 Yeah, and, and I'm, I'm going to tell you, I, this is one of the things that really bothers me about this.

00:06:33.800 I, you know, on social media since the 22nd of May, but these messages have been out there for years.

00:06:41.260 I've been talking about this for years, and I've really been frustrated with this and with the way that the attacks come.

00:06:49.420 Um, um, I, I've been trying to talk about this from the perspective of the big picture, and unfortunately, when you talk about it from the big picture, people tend to think, oh, you just don't have empathy.

00:07:02.760 You just don't have compassion.

00:07:05.700 You just don't understand how bad it is.

00:07:08.420 Um, me, who, who grew up in drug-infested, gang-infested South Central LA, born in 1969, grew up during the crack era, grew up during the crack wars, if you will, raised by a single teenage Buddhist mother.

00:07:24.180 I wasn't raised in Christianity, never heard the gospel until I got to the, to, to university.

00:07:29.560 And so, for people to try to marginalize me because I don't understand, I've been pulled over by the cops.

00:07:37.460 I've been down on the sidewalk because I was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

00:07:41.880 I know these kinds of things happen, and yet, I still say that these ideologies are poisonous, and they have to be confronted, because these ideologies actually undermine our message as Christians.

00:07:59.860 I'm concerned about people.

00:08:02.060 I'm concerned about justice.

00:08:04.020 I'm concerned about souls.

00:08:06.560 And I know where this stuff comes from.

00:08:09.720 I understand where it comes from, and I am not willing to lay down my Bible and have anyone force me to agree with certain things, simply because if I don't, they will, you know, they will somehow label me and call me names.

00:08:26.100 I couldn't care less about people labeling me and calling me names.

00:08:29.900 I know who I am before God.

00:08:32.700 My conscience is clear.

00:08:35.420 And so, I'm worried about this like you.

00:08:38.760 I'm also an American who, as an expat in a foreign country, I've been to dozens of countries in the world, and there's two things that I know.

00:08:48.840 Number one, black people in America are the freest and most prosperous black people in the world, period, bar none. 0.62

00:08:58.000 The second thing is this.

00:09:00.680 People outside of America think that we are the most oppressed people in the world.

00:09:08.240 And people actually think that things like George Floyd are happening every day, that they're not an anomaly, but that they're commonplace.

00:09:19.620 And the reputation that black people have, that somehow we are weak and impotent, and that we can't do or be anything unless white people do it for us, which, by the way, is kind of racist.

00:09:41.620 I believe that by race, I am a descendant of some of the strongest people in the history of the world.

00:09:52.240 But we overcame slavery, and now we're bowing and scraping like we need somebody to do something for us.

00:10:01.060 Our individuality is at stake.

00:10:04.200 Our self-pride is at stake.

00:10:06.420 And our trust in God as the answer and solution to our problems is at stake.

00:10:12.900 And so, for me, this is a very complex issue, but it's one that I'm very passionate about.

00:10:20.580 I will tell you that I am struck by the first time I went to Israel, and I honestly didn't know much about the politics of the region.

00:10:32.000 And I was walking down the street in the old city, and there's a place where the Palestinian section stops.

00:10:37.020 It's just one street, one place.

00:10:39.380 It's just an archway that separates the Jewish quarter from the Palestinian quarter. 0.97

00:10:43.440 And you walk through it, and one is dirty and dingy and dark, and the other is light and bright and clean.

00:10:50.140 And you are within five feet of both of those things.

00:10:55.120 And it struck me that one side just says, I don't care what anybody else says.

00:11:02.960 I'm doing this.

00:11:04.200 And the other side has been told for so long it's because of them.

00:11:10.220 They're stopping you, and I'm the only one that can help you.

00:11:14.680 And it stifles growth.

00:11:17.520 I think the black community has been lied to by the progressive movement really almost since Booker T. Washington died.

00:11:27.480 I mean, they were lied to before that, but when Booker T. died, there was a shift from, we can do this.

00:11:35.520 We don't need anybody.

00:11:37.180 We can do this.

00:11:38.340 And it's been this constant battle of, no, no, no.

00:11:42.700 You're being oppressed even now.

00:11:44.140 You don't even know it, and you'll never get out unless these people.

00:11:48.780 My dad used to say to me, life isn't a series of things that happen to you, Glenn.

00:11:54.420 Life is what you do with those things.

00:11:57.320 And that's the most depressing thing about the message that's coming out of Black Lives Matter is, you're oppressed.

00:12:04.620 You'll never be able to do anything about it unless these people are gone.

00:12:09.400 Well, there's no empowerment in that.

00:12:15.380 Yeah.

00:12:17.400 Very little hope.

00:12:19.360 That's another thing that I'm hearing is that there's very little hope.

00:12:24.060 And if our only hope is that certain people begin to have empathy or begin to do whatever it is that we think certain people need to do, then we have no hope.

00:12:37.660 My hope is in God.

00:12:39.400 My hope is in Christ.

00:12:40.800 My hope is not in America.

00:12:42.800 My hope is not in white people, black people. 1.00

00:12:46.700 My hope is in God.

00:12:47.560 My hope is in Christ.

00:12:49.180 And what worries me also is as an academic.

00:12:52.940 I mean, I'm a dean.

00:12:54.580 And I'm sure you saw that anonymous email that went out from the Berkeley professor.

00:13:03.240 An anonymous black professor.

00:13:07.360 Yeah.

00:13:07.640 There are people in academia who are not free to investigate issues and do honest academic work.

00:13:19.560 And so what we're left with is these simplistic answers, right?

00:13:24.720 And so you have people who quote statistics on this side versus people who quote statistics on that side, right?

00:13:31.780 Two and a half times more likely to be shot by police.

00:13:34.580 Eighteen and a half times more likely to, you know, shoot police officers, whatever, right?

00:13:38.280 And in both instances, we're giving these simplistic answers where the truth is something that's complex.

00:13:45.260 And so if we have automatically said anybody who picks the statistics from this column is evil and shouldn't be listened to, then we've also said that we are not going to honestly pursue complex answers to complex issues.

00:14:05.460 And what that means is we're going to use white people, or use black people, rather.

00:14:10.820 We're going to use their story.

00:14:13.080 We're going to use their suffering in order to advance our cause.

00:14:17.560 Glenn, that's what's been happening for decades, and what has it gotten us?

00:14:23.620 And so here we are.

00:14:24.720 We have black mayors, black police chiefs.

00:14:27.880 You know, we have a president who's a bi-ethnic president, you know, all of these senators and everything else, right?

00:14:37.600 But by the testimony of black people themselves, the feeling is that things are actually not better.

00:14:46.240 The feeling is that the questions haven't been answered, and so the frustration grows, and the hopelessness grows, and the alienation grows.

00:14:58.400 And what I'm saying is we're looking for answers in the wrong places.

00:15:04.740 Let's do the hard work.

00:15:06.780 Ask the hard questions.

00:15:10.020 Yes, sir.

00:15:10.980 Yes, sir.

00:15:11.480 I would love to have you back on again and would love to bring you to the United States.

00:15:15.960 Your voice really needs to be amplified.

00:15:19.760 Thank you so much for being on with us.

00:15:21.480 We'll have you on again.

00:15:22.960 My best of luck.

00:15:23.860 I don't even know what time it is in Zambia.

00:15:25.280 What time is it?

00:15:28.600 In the afternoon?

00:15:30.020 Is it in the afternoon?

00:15:31.100 More in the afternoon, almost.

00:15:32.700 Yeah.

00:15:33.060 We're six hours ahead.

00:15:33.780 Well, thank you so much.

00:15:35.440 Thank you so much.

00:15:36.440 God bless you, and stay safe.

00:15:39.620 This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

00:15:41.640 Matt Ridley is the author of How Innovation Works, recent theories also on the coronavirus.

00:15:51.720 I've been following his tweets.

00:15:54.320 His website, therationaloptimist.com, and he joins us now.

00:16:00.040 Are you in London today still, Matt?

00:16:02.080 No, Glenn, I'm in Newcastle in northern England, so not in London, but up north.

00:16:08.500 Well, for the rest of America, that's still London.

00:16:14.060 Yeah, fair enough.

00:16:15.460 Yeah, there's nothing.

00:16:17.340 Anyway, so, Matt, I want to talk to you a little bit about, as we start to go back to work,

00:16:25.380 we're starting to hear that this thing is heating up, and I think the worst thing that any of these officials could do

00:16:33.700 is to tell people that it's okay to go out in March, and it was responsible,

00:16:40.120 after telling the rest of us, screw your business, you may lose your job, but you must stay in.

00:16:47.680 Now, if there is another wave of this, and it is really bad, I think you're going to have a hard time convincing a lot of people to stay in.

00:16:56.100 They're going to say, screw you, you didn't even believe it.

00:16:59.620 Well, I do think there has been an extraordinary double standard expressed by a lot of people in the media

00:17:05.560 and officials condoning protests, but still telling the rest of us that we have to stay home

00:17:13.120 and mustn't go out and mix with people.

00:17:16.480 You know, in this country, we're not allowed to go to the pub, we're not allowed to, you know, have any fun at all.

00:17:22.960 But if we were to go, as thousands did a couple of weekends ago, to London and march in really close proximity to each other

00:17:31.280 and shout and scream, which, of course, means you're, you know, spreading a lot of droplets in the air,

00:17:36.920 then nobody seems to object.

00:17:39.480 And I do, you know, a lot of us feel that that that is a double standard.

00:17:43.600 It needs to be called out.

00:17:45.180 Either those protests are going to produce a very nasty second spike of the virus,

00:17:50.340 or we're going to find that it doesn't do that.

00:17:53.740 And all the evidence so far suggests that it doesn't do that.

00:17:55.920 There's no sign of an uptick, certainly in London, of either cases or of reports of people starting to feel ill

00:18:02.940 and calling emergency hotlines and things like that.

00:18:05.820 And it's already two weeks down the road.

00:18:08.040 So either it looks like this has proved that we don't need so much social distancing anymore

00:18:15.660 because we're into the season when this doesn't spread very well.

00:18:19.120 We've done a lot of the voluntary stuff, which has made it very difficult for the virus to spread.

00:18:22.920 And we can try and get our lives back to normal and get people's jobs back and get people's,

00:18:28.160 you know, cancer appointments back and all these things that we've stopped.

00:18:31.680 Matt, the the America's golden calf of the spring was Dr. Fauci.

00:18:39.840 And now Fauci is saying he wouldn't go to any of these Trump rallies.

00:18:44.020 It's just too dangerous.

00:18:45.440 And now we also find out there may be no immunity.

00:18:48.680 Look what's happening in China.

00:18:50.160 These people should have been immune.

00:18:51.760 They're not immune.

00:18:52.480 And it's coming for a second wave.

00:18:54.520 So which is it?

00:18:56.140 The is it is it dangerous or can you go out in these crowds and not have any real lasting effects?

00:19:03.580 Which which one?

00:19:05.140 And who do we believe?

00:19:06.380 Well, of course, the true answer is we still don't fully know this is a new virus and we are still learning all the time.

00:19:13.380 However, we can say some things with with great clarity.

00:19:17.460 And one of them is that young people are at very, very, very low risk indeed.

00:19:23.460 That if you're over 80, it is a serious problem.

00:19:26.860 It is a very dangerous virus if you've got underlying conditions.

00:19:30.700 And those are the people we need to be really careful and keep away from crowds and keep away from social contact with with people,

00:19:37.040 because young people can spread it, but they're very unlikely to suffer seriously from it.

00:19:41.040 So that's a that's a really important point, I think, that we need to understand.

00:19:47.160 And on the point of immunity, there are lots of different things leading in different directions.

00:19:52.880 There isn't a huge amount of what you call B cell immunity, that is, say, antibodies in the population.

00:19:58.900 But there's another kind of immunity called T cell immunity, which is partially effective and which seems to be very widespread in the population.

00:20:07.240 And some reports have said 40 percent. Some reports have said 70 percent of kids under the age of four have this kind of immunity.

00:20:14.680 And that's why they're not catching the disease. Now, why have they got this kind of immunity?

00:20:19.580 Because there are four other coronaviruses that we catch pretty well every winter.

00:20:24.780 They're called the common cold. They're one of the causes of the common cold.

00:20:28.540 And they have given us a degree of immunity to coronaviruses.

00:20:33.000 And once you factor in that, that maybe a big chunk of the population is already partly immune,

00:20:39.240 then it turns out that the virus will die back of its own accord, particularly in summer,

00:20:45.360 with only voluntary measures. And you won't need these drastic compulsory lockdowns.

00:20:51.840 But as I say, we don't know that for sure. That's the way it's looking at the moment.

00:20:56.020 It does seem, Matt, that, you know, the seasonal aspect of it can be both encouraging and discouraging.

00:21:04.240 Like we are seeing some in the United States where there have been some states where we're seeing a little bit of a bounce back.

00:21:08.940 But it does seem to be at least some seasonal effect.

00:21:12.460 However, does that signify we're in for it in a big way going forward when we get to fall?

00:21:18.360 I think that is a concern because all these respiratory viruses are seasonal.

00:21:25.680 Flu is seasonal. Colds are seasonal. And we don't really know why.

00:21:30.300 I mean, it's just quite interesting to talk briefly about one of those coronaviruses that cause colds.

00:21:35.300 It's called OC43. It's the commonest of the common cold coronaviruses.

00:21:39.780 It's highly seasonal. You only get it in winter on the whole.

00:21:42.540 Now, genomic evidence, genetic evidence suggests that that first entered the human population around 1890.

00:21:50.420 Well, it turns out there was a very bad epidemic of what was so-called Russian flu in 1889 to 90.

00:21:56.220 And it sounds very like what we had today.

00:21:58.560 It hit old people harder than young people. It hit men harder than women.

00:22:03.060 So it could be that that was the first entry of that virus into the population.

00:22:07.600 And it killed a million people and it spread all around the world.

00:22:11.400 But then it became much more harmless.

00:22:13.700 And it's so harmless now that you and I have probably had it several times.

00:22:17.320 We get partial immunity to it. But in a few years later, you can get it again.

00:22:20.740 And you just call it a cold.

00:22:23.140 So that holds out hope in the long run that this virus will also turn harmless.

00:22:28.120 And the reason that happens with respiratory viruses, not necessarily with other kinds of viruses,

00:22:32.680 is because the virus wants you out there protesting and coughing and having fun and talking to people,

00:22:40.160 because that way it can spread more easily.

00:22:42.340 If you go to bed and lie still for a week and don't see anybody, then that's no good to the virus.

00:22:47.180 The virus needs another destination.

00:22:51.680 So, Matt, is there a definitive answer yet on where this came from?

00:22:59.860 I just talked to somebody who said, no, no, no, researchers have found that China put this bat virus,

00:23:10.260 I think, into a mouse or something.

00:23:12.960 And it's documented over in China with video.

00:23:16.600 They talked about doing it.

00:23:17.900 They weren't weaponizing it.

00:23:19.080 They were just experimenting.

00:23:20.180 And he said, because of that, and he had all the scientific jargon, because of that, it's a virus that was released

00:23:30.580 and doesn't have any real staying power to it.

00:23:34.260 And it's going to get weaker and weaker.

00:23:35.940 Have you looked into that?

00:23:36.980 Have you heard that?

00:23:39.060 I have looked into this, and I don't know the answer any more than anybody else.

00:23:43.300 We are still very uncertain here, and I don't know what happened.

00:23:47.780 But there are several key things that we now do know.

00:23:51.560 The first is that it did not jump from an animal to a human being in that seafood market in Wuhan.

00:23:57.940 We know that for two reasons.

00:23:59.620 One, because the animals in the seafood market turn out to test negative.

00:24:05.020 There was no animal they could find that tested positive.

00:24:07.640 The Chinese only announced that very recently, even though they did the tests early in January.

00:24:12.300 It would have been helpful if they'd let us know a bit sooner.

00:24:15.760 Secondly, we know that it was already very well adapted to human beings in the people who caught it in the market.

00:24:24.620 So what this tells us is that the market was a super spreader event.

00:24:28.100 It was a person spreading it in the market, not an animal.

00:24:30.980 Now, that does make it less likely that we need to, well, you know,

00:24:35.560 that means that we need to look for other sources of where it came from.

00:24:41.200 And with respect to the labs, there are several questions we need to answer if we are to rule out the possibility that it's a lab leak.

00:24:49.760 Wuhan is one of the centers of coronavirus research in the world, one of the two top centers for coronavirus research in the world.

00:24:57.000 They were working on coronaviruses.

00:24:58.800 They were combining parts of one virus with another, making so-called chimeric viruses.

00:25:03.760 They handled the sample taken from a mineshaft in 2013 that is the closest bat sample to the one we have. 0.88

00:25:12.100 For some reason, they changed the name of that sample when they announced it in January and didn't say that it was from a mineshaft.

00:25:19.720 We're a little unsure about why that is.

00:25:22.200 But we know that three miners died in that mineshaft from a pneumonia-like illness that turned out to be a coronavirus.

00:25:27.960 So presumably their lungs were analyzed, too.

00:25:30.280 We need to know what that was.

00:25:32.160 We know that when they do these experiments in Wuhan to make combined viruses, they take the so-called receptor binding domain from one virus and add it to the backbone of another. 0.69

00:25:43.720 And that's what this virus looks like.

00:25:45.500 It looks like it's got a pangolin part for one part and a bat part for another.

00:25:49.700 We know they can do that without leaving a trace.

00:25:52.460 It used to be argued until a few weeks ago that if they had done that, they would very clearly leave a signature, a sort of restriction enzyme signature to give it its proper name.

00:26:04.220 We know that they can do it without doing that.

00:26:06.240 So there's a whole bunch of things that we know make it possible for this to have been made deliberately in the lab with a view to understanding its virulence, not with a view to making a bioweapon.

00:26:16.400 And that it's possible that it therefore leaked.

00:26:19.200 Now, to rule that out, the Chinese authorities need to bring forward all the researchers involved in that program and give us a complete and open account of exactly what experiments they did and why they think it did not leak.

00:26:31.880 And then we can be reassured it's in their interest to do that.

00:26:35.320 How do you think history is going to look back at the response of this?

00:26:42.080 This is the first time in human history that we have shut everything down.

00:26:45.460 I mean, they they shut things down in London for the London plague, but not like this.

00:26:52.680 This is really kind of a test run of does this work?

00:26:57.240 Can we even do it?

00:26:58.680 How is this going to be viewed in history as a good thing or, you know, the first in the way we handled viruses?

00:27:07.680 How is this going to be remembered?

00:27:10.240 I think this is going to be remembered as a pretty big, disastrous series of policy mistakes.

00:27:15.480 We reacted too slowly at the start.

00:27:18.160 We overreacted in the middle.

00:27:19.580 We relied too much on scientific models which were flawed in forecasting.

00:27:24.280 And as you say, we used thoroughly illiberal and compulsory means to shut down the whole of society, doing huge economic damage without.

00:27:34.580 And then the worst mistake of all, we let it run rampant through the care home system, both in my country and in New York state.

00:27:41.880 There have been cases where patients were sent from hospitals to care homes without being tested for the virus.

00:27:49.140 That caused an epidemic in the care homes.

00:27:52.200 So so there's a whole series of mistakes that I think, I'm afraid, are pretty disastrous.

00:27:56.500 And we're going to have to to to learn very carefully from this not to behave that way in future.

00:28:03.200 We ought to have been able to handle this with a with a voluntary restrictions that saved old people who were most at risk from getting close to the virus, 0.99

00:28:14.060 but didn't interfere with young people going about their business and earning their living.

00:28:18.800 And that, I think, is one of the things we've got to do in my book called How Innovation Works.

00:28:22.800 I write about vaccines.

00:28:24.680 I write about drugs.

00:28:26.100 I write about all these innovations.

00:28:27.400 And I think the other lesson we have to learn is that we didn't do enough innovation in vaccine development and other things before this pandemic came along because we knew it was possible.

00:28:36.900 I'm so afraid that we're going to pass this and the same thing is going to happen is going to happen again.

00:28:42.940 We're just going to lose interest in it once we get past it.

00:28:45.460 And then no one's going to follow.

00:28:47.220 Go ahead, Glenn.

00:28:48.360 Yeah.

00:28:49.740 How innovation works is Stu is.

00:28:53.380 I mean, Matt, he worships a small idol of you.

00:28:58.540 You really changed his life.

00:29:00.240 And I've read your book, How Innovation Works.

00:29:03.100 It's really, really, really good.

00:29:05.100 And everybody should read it.

00:29:06.120 And we appreciate you being on with us.

00:29:08.120 Thank you so much.

00:29:08.800 Matt Ridley, the rational optimist, rationaloptimist.com.

00:29:12.920 And the name of his book is How Innovation Works and Why It Flourishes in Freedom.

00:29:21.100 You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck Program.

00:29:26.760 Last night, I did a special on the most dangerous cult in America.

00:29:31.220 And it is this Marxist cult that is out now, part of this cancel culture.

00:29:37.600 And it doesn't matter what you say.

00:29:41.020 You're a racist, whether you like it or not.

00:29:43.400 And all of these companies that are playing right into this and firing people, apologizing for things that they may not have ever done.

00:29:54.300 And I think people are starting to catch on, that it could happen to them.

00:30:03.760 There's a story of a principal up in Vermont that is just the most remarkable story.

00:30:12.160 She said,

00:30:42.160 Just because I walk around, just because I don't walk around with a BLM sign doesn't mean that I'm not a racist or that I am a racist.

00:30:54.560 Well, she's been suspended.

00:30:56.280 What did she say wrong?

00:31:02.500 Now, as bad as this is, imagine being fired for doing literally nothing.

00:31:12.240 And then having the people who claimed you were doing something wrong recant and say,

00:31:18.160 You know what? No, I had it wrong.

00:31:20.400 I don't think it was a racist thing.

00:31:22.060 And your employer won't hire you back.

00:31:27.580 This is what's happening to a California man who was fired from his job because someone he was on the road.

00:31:34.540 Someone took a picture of his hand outside of his outside of his truck and he was cracking his knuckles.

00:31:42.140 That's what he said.

00:31:43.580 But they said he was forming the OK sign, which is alleged white power.

00:31:50.120 Are you kidding me?

00:31:51.380 Do you not have anything else to do with your life?

00:31:54.020 So his name is Emanuel Cafferty was fired from his position at San Diego Gas and Electric because the Twitter user posted this, which has now been deleted, said that he was a San Diego Gas and Electric employee.

00:32:10.220 And he was making the white power symbol near a black lives rally.

00:32:17.340 Well, he's Mexican-American.

00:32:19.700 He said, I just was cracking my knuckles.

00:32:22.680 And he's been charged, tried now and convicted on social media.

00:32:27.220 And he lost his job when the other person said, I got it wrong.

00:32:32.740 San Diego Gas and Electric didn't care.

00:32:35.180 However, he's with us now in his first interview.

00:32:39.400 His name is Emanuel Cafferty, a Mexican-American.

00:32:43.480 Welcome to the program, Emanuel.

00:32:44.620 How are you?

00:32:47.240 Other than being unemployed, I'm fine.

00:32:51.760 So when our producers reached out to you, you said you just want your job back.

00:32:58.580 And then we reached out to, you know, San Diego Gas and Electric, and they said, our employees are held to a high standard and expected to live up to our values every day.

00:33:12.780 Whether in interactions with fellow employees or the public, we conducted a good faith and thorough investigation that included gathering relevant information and multiple interviews and took action in line with those values.

00:33:23.620 While we're not able to reveal the furrow circumstances surrounding our investigation, Mr. Cafferty's separation from the company, we stand by our decision and will not be commenting any further.

00:33:33.660 So basically what they're saying is they know you're a racist, but they can't tell anybody why you're a racist.

00:33:43.780 Maybe.

00:33:44.720 Or they're just saying they don't want to admit they made mistakes.

00:33:47.900 So, um, and you, do you still want to work with those people?

00:33:57.520 Yeah, I do.

00:33:58.600 I, I, I thought it was the best position I could be.

00:34:02.780 I worked three and a half years to get that position.

00:34:06.600 And the day I was hired by them was one of my proudest days.

00:34:11.040 And to lose it in this fashion, it's, it's, it's like, it's baking and yeah, I want to work.

00:34:21.760 I still want to work there.

00:34:23.920 And you say that you have special skills that your job that you did, what you trained for is very specialized.

00:34:31.740 And so there are not a lot of these jobs around.

00:34:34.720 Correct.

00:34:36.820 What is it you do?

00:34:38.420 Underground utility locating.

00:34:45.160 So how, and how do you do that?

00:34:47.040 Do you have to crawl through the sewers or are you just, you use a scope of some sort?

00:34:52.100 Anytime someone wants to dig, they need to know what's underground, right?

00:34:56.220 So the gas line, there's a power line, there's a phone line, whatever.

00:35:00.480 So, you know, we have special tools that can show where they're at.

00:35:05.180 We'll paint it on the ground and, you know, everyone can see where it's at.

00:35:10.060 Now you have three daughters, uh, and a grandson that lives with you, uh, and you were fired without any severance.

00:35:20.960 Correct.

00:35:21.520 That was just it.

00:35:23.440 Yeah.

00:35:23.880 How are you paying for things?

00:35:29.900 Well, it's only been a couple of weeks so far, so, you know, had a little bit of savings.

00:35:34.900 But, uh, it's going to be tough here coming up, especially in the COVID climate we're living in.

00:35:40.160 Well, not only that, Emmanuel, but your former company has issued a statement that said that they know you are a racist.

00:35:46.980 They just can't tell anybody why.

00:35:49.000 I mean, I don't know how you're going to find a job with a, with your former company saying that.

00:35:55.640 I mean, do you have a clan?

00:35:58.160 Have you ever been a member of the clan?

00:35:59.900 Are you, do you know things that the average person doesn't know?

00:36:04.360 Because I honestly, I would look at that statement and say, uh, I'm blackballed forever.

00:36:11.660 Yeah.

00:36:12.700 Luckily, when you look at my face and you see that I'm, I'm Mexican American, it's not going to be the first thing to come up to your mind that I might be a clan member.

00:36:25.920 So you started a petition on change.org.

00:36:30.160 Correct.

00:36:30.560 Uh, to, to try to convince your company to hire you back instead of a fundraising petition, right?

00:36:38.480 This is, you're saying, help me raise enough voices to say, hire me back.

00:36:46.160 Correct.

00:36:49.800 There is now a GoFundMe account with my name, uh, you know, at the GoFundMe site for,

00:36:59.580 legal fees in case, because I'm, I'm, I'm not going to take this standing, you know, I'm not going to sit down taking this.

00:37:07.660 This is, it's just completely unfair.

00:37:09.980 If it can happen to me, it can happen to somebody else.

00:37:11.920 So I'm going to go as far as I can to make as much noise as I can to, uh, kind of right this wrong.

00:37:18.820 So are you going for possibly a wrongful termination lawsuit or sue the guy that sicked the mob on you for civil damages?

00:37:29.360 Or do you even know who it was that sicked the mob on you?

00:37:32.740 We kind of figured it out.

00:37:35.080 We kind of got a name.

00:37:36.520 He's since removed his account, which is even more maddening.

00:37:42.600 He's even gave a statement to the local media, the news, and basically recanted everything he charged me of doing.

00:37:52.540 And, uh, well, yeah, all he did is, all he did is said you, he said you were making the white supremacist, uh, uh, symbol, the okay sign.

00:38:05.500 And how far away were you when, when that picture was taken?

00:38:09.180 Do you even know from the black lives matter rally?

00:38:12.460 No, I do know it's over a mile.

00:38:16.660 So you were sending a message to protesters that were a mile away.

00:38:22.560 Is that what they're alleging?

00:38:24.920 Well, no, they just took his word for it.

00:38:28.460 Uh, he, he, he framed a picture with his captions, with his story of the verse, his version of the story.

00:38:38.640 And they, for whatever reason, either they believed his story more than mine, or they just didn't care.

00:38:46.160 Or just because it was that week, you know, the week with all the racial uprising and either he just didn't want to deal with it.

00:38:55.160 He believed him more than me.

00:38:56.460 I don't know.

00:38:56.960 But his version of it was full of lies.

00:39:01.500 The way he put it on Twitter was just full of lies.

00:39:04.920 And that's what happened.

00:39:07.700 And I'm dealing with the repercussions.

00:39:10.720 We're talking to Emanuel Cafferty, who was fired for allegedly giving a white supremacist signal as he was driving past a rally.

00:39:19.180 Emanuel, as I look at this, what I see...

00:39:21.860 A mile, a mile past the rally.

00:39:24.540 A mile past the rally.

00:39:25.380 What I, what I look at, when I look at this, I see a situation where a lot of people are really stupid on social media.

00:39:32.220 And a lot of people will allege things that are false on social media.

00:39:35.340 And a lot of people do really stupid things on social media.

00:39:37.840 And while the person who alleged this is seemingly clearly in the wrong here, it's a totally different standard to be held by an employer.

00:39:46.420 They seem to me to be the one who is really at fault here and have taken...

00:39:52.140 I mean, they've smeared your name.

00:39:54.220 They've smeared your reputation.

00:39:56.080 They've taken your job.

00:39:58.380 They really are the ones who are, in a way, confirming this ridiculous allegation against you.

00:40:04.180 To me, they seem to be the ones who are most at fault here.

00:40:08.780 Is that how you see it as well?

00:40:09.900 No, no, I don't.

00:40:12.740 I see, like, what this guy did.

00:40:15.040 He's like a real-life troll.

00:40:17.140 He put me and the company in a tough position.

00:40:22.640 One, they have to make a decision whether, you know, a company like that's going to be just saying,

00:40:27.620 we have no patience for racism.

00:40:32.600 We're going to have to, you know, make a big, bold statement.

00:40:35.420 And unfortunately for me, I ended up being the sacrificial lamb for that.

00:40:39.560 But had this guy just stayed in his own lane, had this guy not went out of his way to take a picture.

00:40:47.000 First of all, I'm not even making a white supremacist gesture in the picture he takes.

00:40:51.520 And if he doesn't put that online, tagging my employee, tagging every news outlet in the city,

00:41:01.420 none of this will happen.

00:41:02.800 The actions of this one troll is the reason why I don't have a job today.

00:41:07.860 It's a very adult way of handling it.

00:41:09.700 I don't know that I would have the same restraint.

00:41:11.300 But I would say it does give the company a real out here and a possibility to make this right,

00:41:16.820 where they can rehire you and make this into a situation where, you know,

00:41:23.360 social media got out of control.

00:41:24.560 They made a wrong decision and can correct it.

00:41:26.240 They still have a window here.

00:41:27.400 It seems like you're giving them a manual and they should definitely take it.

00:41:30.920 And it's more than kind.

00:41:32.460 I personally would be living off of the profits of a litigation suit that would never go to court

00:41:39.600 because they would settle for big dollars because unless they have something on you

00:41:44.400 that they really can't say, they've just said, we fired you.

00:41:48.980 Yeah, and well, that might not be right.

00:41:50.880 We did our investigation and homework, and this guy, man, is he a racist.

00:41:56.020 And I think you're going to have a hard time finding a job after that.

00:42:00.640 Yeah, yeah, they could say that.

00:42:02.380 They could say that.

00:42:03.780 My interaction with him at all is against their public image, and that's why I'm fired.

00:42:11.640 Well, I wish you the best of luck, Emmanuel.

00:42:13.780 I'm sorry this happened to you or anybody, but I appreciate it.

00:42:18.460 And like Stu said, you're being much more, I guess, Christ-like than I would be.

00:42:24.900 But the best of luck.

00:42:26.340 And you can go to change.org or to what's the other one?

00:42:30.860 GoFundMe.

00:42:31.480 That are raising money?

00:42:32.440 Yeah.

00:42:33.640 GoFundMe.

00:42:34.440 His name is Emmanuel Cafferty.

00:42:36.520 Emmanuel Cafferty.

00:42:37.940 Thank you so much, Emmanuel.

00:42:39.020 I appreciate it.

00:42:39.700 God bless.

00:42:40.520 Does anybody else think that that's just bowing down to this company?

00:42:46.920 I mean, these companies are bowing down to everybody.

00:42:49.960 If you don't teach these companies a lesson, they're not going to stop.

00:42:52.240 They'll throw anybody under the bus. 1.00

00:42:53.720 Yeah.

00:42:54.140 Throw anybody under the bus.

00:42:55.380 It's an interesting approach there because it seems like he really does want the job back.

00:42:59.060 And I certainly would not want to come back to a company that treated me that way.

00:43:02.980 But I think he's looking at this and saying, look, this person made a false accusation.

00:43:08.080 I can understand why companies get pressured into these situations, especially in this current environment.

00:43:13.760 So he's given them another chance.

00:43:15.740 I mean, this is a gift from this guy.

00:43:17.560 He does not have to provide this gift to this company.

00:43:20.600 They should take him up on it.

00:43:21.500 I don't think they take it.

00:43:22.340 Yeah.

00:43:22.700 Yeah.

00:43:22.860 Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.

The Glenn Beck Program - June 18, 2020

Best of The Program ｜ Guests： Dr. Voddie Baucham, Matt Ridley, & Emmanuel Cafferty ｜ 6⧸18⧸20

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