The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program ｜ Guests： Joe the Plumber & Barrie Schwortz ｜ 7⧸28⧸23

00:00:00.000 Today is an unbelievable show. I kind of blow a gasket over the Trump persecution,

00:00:08.160 the things that are going on with Biden, RFK being turned down for Secret Service protection.

00:00:16.360 Why? Why is that? Our situation is so bad. Our people in Washington are so corrupt

00:00:24.280 if they're not literally brain damaged in some way. Quite a rant coming on that. Also, 0.97

00:00:31.820 the Shroud of Turin and, oh, the Democrats, they decide not to prosecute Sam Bankman Freed.

00:00:41.060 Why? Carol Roth is here to talk about that and an incredible interview with Joe the Plumber.

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00:01:56.800 You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.

00:02:01.600 Carol Roth is with us now. She is the author of You Will O' Nothing. And she is also a former

00:02:10.560 investment banker. She is recovering from all of those years. Welcome, Carol.

00:02:18.780 Hi, Glenn. Happy Friday. And I hope you had a good week. It seems like one of those,

00:02:24.420 you know, it's the wrong week to quit sniffing glue weeks. It's just one thing after another.

00:02:29.620 It is crazy. First of all, Joe Biden's case, Hunter Biden's case falls apart. And there's a story

00:02:37.000 today out that is talking about how angry his attorneys are at this judge for what? Doing her

00:02:45.020 job. Then yesterday we find out that, what's his name? Sam Bankman Freed is, is being, the charges are

00:02:56.120 being dropped for him on any kind of illegal campaign donations. He gave tens of millions of dollars

00:03:06.740 to the Democrats. Tens of millions of dollars. And he did it illegally. He was doing it under other

00:03:14.680 people's names, fake names, and under his company, which he can't do. But they dropped that. Why, Carol?

00:03:24.980 Yeah, I mean, it's even worse than that. The allegations were that he was using customers'

00:03:28.760 money to make the donation. So it wasn't even just the fake names. It was literally somebody had

00:03:34.540 put their money with him as a custodian. And allegedly that's what happened. But so let's

00:03:39.620 take a step back and remind everybody who this Sam Bankman Freed character is. He was this

00:03:44.760 20-something wonder kid, you know, that just comes out of nowhere, who's altruistic. You know, he just

00:03:51.740 wants to get rich so he can give it all away, Glenn. And he does this from a $40 million penthouse

00:04:00.400 in a tax haven called the Bahamas. Absolutely nothing suspicious there, right? And when you

00:04:06.560 think about financial frauds, you know, there's two different kinds. There's the ones that are,

00:04:12.720 you know, try to stay away from the regulators. They're very under the radar. They try to stay,

00:04:16.940 they're not trying to draw attention. And then there are the ones that run directly towards the

00:04:21.940 politicians, usually because the politicians are involved. And I think about the, you know,

00:04:26.640 1MDB sovereign debt scandal that happened over Malaysia as an example of that. So what happened

00:04:33.700 here is that you had these prosecutors who brought Bankman Freed up on all charges. He was in the

00:04:40.660 Bahamas at the time that he was charged in the U.S. signed an extradition treaty with the Bahamas.

00:04:46.280 Now, obviously, the U.S. has a lot of leverage over the Bahamas, right? If you want the Bahamas to

00:04:52.300 turn somebody over, it's not really that challenging to do it. So this is the second

00:04:59.200 time that they have dropped a charge. And both of them are related, in my opinion. The first one

00:05:06.200 was the violating anti-bribery statutes, right? And the second is these campaign finance charges.

00:05:14.140 And if you think about that, they say, oh, well, that wasn't part of the extradition treaty.

00:05:19.540 Okay. But again, the U.S. has massive leverage over the Bahamas. If this is something that you

00:05:26.340 wanted to either be in the treaty to start with, or you wanted to pursue, this is not a difficult

00:05:32.100 thing. The issue is that there's a lot at stake. You know, it would open up a huge deep dive into

00:05:38.740 where all of this money went, you know, how it was used, if there was, you know, potentially any

00:05:44.060 money laundering that was involved. Clearly a trail, a deep dive that a lot of very well-connected

00:05:50.860 people who got this money didn't want to have happen. And then there potentially would be a

00:05:56.420 renewed call for the politicians to return the money. A handful did, but many, many didn't.

00:06:02.340 And, you know, just a kind of a look into what's happening with, you know, all these offshore

00:06:08.460 accounts that allegedly Beckman-Fried was setting up and involved in. So this is, you know, if you

00:06:16.660 believe in the simplest answer is the right answer here, the fact that you had both bribery and finance

00:06:22.360 charges, it's because of his cozy nature with the politicians and the fact that they were all

00:06:27.600 involved in this at, you know, various different levels and they don't want that information coming

00:06:33.180 out. So Carol, I look at the billions, hundreds of billions of dollars that we are sending to Ukraine

00:06:42.960 and we know now, I mean, most people aren't talking about this and I don't know why, but on Wednesday

00:06:50.440 in front of the judge, Hunter Biden said, yes. Okay. I did take money from China. So all of the,

00:06:59.720 all of the lies of the past that we knew were lies, at least anyone who's paying attention now been

00:07:06.480 confirmed. He took money from Ukraine as well. And this is a country we're sending hundreds of billions

00:07:15.520 of dollars toward, and there's no oversight. It is almost as if the biggest heist is happening

00:07:26.060 right under our noses and we see it, but we're not doing anything about it. I think there's a very

00:07:33.840 good chance that this was all just money laundering and putting this money. Do you know how much of the

00:07:41.760 world you could change with, with a hundred million dollars? Can you imagine what you could change with

00:07:48.280 a billion dollars? I mean, all of this untracked or untraceable all over the world, who's getting all

00:07:58.340 this money? You mean to tell me you don't think that Hunter Biden is a Renaissance man, that, you know,

00:08:05.260 his amazing discretion, highly sought after to sit on international boards and lead international

00:08:12.280 dealings. Oh, and by the way, to be an amazing painter that commands, you know, six figures for

00:08:18.000 his paintings. It is, it's so blatant. It's obscene. It's so out in the open. It is just, it's almost like

00:08:26.300 they're rubbing everybody's faces in it and they're just seeing how far they can push. And unfortunately,

00:08:31.660 people are so wrapped up in the day-to-day nonsense that there really isn't any pushback

00:08:38.140 against these issues. I mean, I couldn't even begin to speculate what is happening with this money that

00:08:44.980 we're sending over because there's so much of it. It's entirely unaccounted for. And it doesn't seem

00:08:52.880 to stop. Who does that? No. And who does that? And now we have a guy who we know was taking

00:09:00.660 other people's money and sending it to politicians and donating it in ways that are highly illegal

00:09:09.140 and nobody's going to look into it. I mean, it is, it's very hard not to be a conspiracy theorist

00:09:18.900 and say, they're all in on a money laundering thing. Something else is going on.

00:09:25.700 Yeah. I mean, again, allegedly, it seems that to be a realistic outcome because how could it not?

00:09:34.940 And when you look at how hard they've been going after President Trump from the time that he came

00:09:41.160 down that elevator to announce his presidency to yesterday and all of the things that they, you know,

00:09:47.820 these, these little things, many of them made up that they were going after all the while doing

00:09:54.520 many of the same things that they're accusing him of doing or much worse. It's just, it's beyond a

00:10:02.720 two tiers system of justice. It's, you know, if you are with us, you are going to benefit. We're going

00:10:08.740 to find a way to move this money around and get everybody paid. And, you know, as I've always said

00:10:14.720 that Congress is a place where you legally launder money. So this could be a, you know,

00:10:19.340 a legal laundering of it. But see, clearly people are getting paid in a way that, you know,

00:10:27.160 our government was not set up to make sure that they were getting paid.

00:10:31.320 Correct. So they dropped the charges on him.

00:10:35.240 The rest of the charges, is he going away for a very long time?

00:10:43.960 You know, I guess it depends on who, who he knows and, and, and what they want to come

00:10:49.960 out and what they don't want to come out. I mean, if you think about, you know, back in

00:10:53.540 December of 2022, Maxine Waters, who previously was blowing kisses at Sam Bankman-Fried in a

00:11:01.380 hearing on crypto, you know, she put out that tweet about, oh, you know, you've been so candid

00:11:07.600 in your discussions and we're so happy that you would talk to the public. I mean, when does somebody

00:11:13.360 in Congress ever do something like that? I mean, it's just so blatant and so bizarre. So he's clearly

00:11:21.500 incredibly well tied and there's something much deeper going on here. So whether he gets off,

00:11:28.480 whether he gets disappeared, whether the camera in his jail cell stops working, like, you know,

00:11:33.920 so many others, Glenn, or not, I think depends on the level of what has happened behind the scenes.

00:11:41.200 And, you know, it's like this onion. Every time we peel back a layer, we're finding more and more.

00:11:45.800 There is much more going on here because of the level of the money we were talking about here and

00:11:51.720 his cozy nature with all the politicians. As I said, when we started, usually with financial fraud,

00:11:57.480 you don't want the attention of people who are regulators and people in Congress and those

00:12:03.100 high-profile people unless they're involved. And that's what happened with 1MDB and all of these

00:12:10.600 other corruption issues. So the fact that you have, you know, all of these people who were running

00:12:16.040 cover for him and you're not standing up and denouncing him and now you're getting these charges

00:12:20.300 dropped says to me there's something deeper we haven't discovered yet.

00:12:24.880 That is terrifying, Carol. Thank you so much. Carol Roth, the author of

00:12:30.480 You Will Own Nothing. Will you hold on just a second, Carol? Because I want to talk to you about

00:12:34.200 the GDP here in a second. But before I go to commercial, I have to say what she just said

00:12:42.740 about the charges on Donald Trump. Have you gotten the message yet? You are not to stand up

00:12:51.880 against the machine or they will destroy you. That's the message that they are trying to send.

00:12:58.880 Donald Trump, I contend, is maybe the cleanest person ever to go to Washington.

00:13:08.760 This guy has been investigated by every intelligence agency, both friend and foe. More investigations have

00:13:20.060 been done on that guy than anyone else. And they have to make things up to be able to charge.

00:13:30.060 I mean, it is, it's obscene. It is absolutely obscene. And they are doing it to make sure you understand

00:13:41.260 if we can do that to him. That guy may go to jail. Why? Because he wouldn't play the game with the rest of

00:13:52.080 the machine. It is sick what's going on. I thank God for you. I really do. I would have such little hope

00:14:02.060 hope if it wasn't for you. Standing up every day and being heard and caring about it. My gosh, if I felt alone,

00:14:10.760 don't ever feel alone. There's millions of Americans who are just as upset about this as you are.

00:14:17.360 We just have to continue to stand up and not accept the lies. You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck

00:14:24.820 program. I want to tell you about a veteran, a veteran who has served his country and then

00:14:34.240 served in an entirely different way. Somebody that, you know, let's call him Joe.

00:14:43.600 He started having problems in his stomach on September of 2022. He tried to self-diagnose,

00:14:49.320 thought maybe it was lactose intolerance or, you know, allergic to gluten or whatever.

00:14:53.300 Come December, the pain is so bad that he goes to the emergency room at the VA center and he's

00:15:00.680 sent home with pain medication, but no real answers. The pain got worse and worse and Joe

00:15:05.960 went back to the emergency room. They found then a mass on his pancreas. The VA did a test,

00:15:14.000 told him it was cancer. Then they called back four days later and said, oh no, you know what?

00:15:18.940 It isn't cancer. Then on January 11th, the VA called and said, no, it is cancer. It's stage three

00:15:27.860 pancreatic cancer. So he goes through eight months, eight, I'm sorry, eight rounds of chemo. But

00:15:35.660 unfortunately the cancer had spread to his liver as well. The VA wouldn't work with him and his wife.

00:15:43.180 They wanted to try naturopathic medicines as well. And it was this the way we do things and that's

00:15:48.840 it. You know, when you're talking about somebody's life or your own life, you don't want to leave any

00:15:55.920 stone unturned. So they started looking around the country and the world for alternatives.

00:16:01.760 And Joe and his wife said, God has answered our prayers. Joe was accepted to cancer treatments of

00:16:07.420 America known as the city of hope, where they do Western medicine and naturopathic medicine.

00:16:13.300 Unfortunately, as of July 26th, the new chemo has stopped working. Now Joe's on a list for a new trial

00:16:20.640 medicine for pancreatic cancer. Unfortunately, there is not a current start date for the new trial.

00:16:27.500 They're trying to move to Wisconsin for be around more family and get more support for family.

00:16:33.020 And they're three young, beautiful children. His wife's name is Katie. His name is Joe, but you know him

00:16:40.560 as Joe the plumber. And he's on with us now. Hey, Joe.

00:16:46.520 Hey, Glenn. Thanks for having me.

00:16:49.480 You bet. You sound a lot different than you did when we when we first spoke all those many years ago.

00:16:55.800 How are you holding up?

00:16:59.140 Oh, you know, every day is a blessing. I wake up in the morning, I'm here. So that makes me happy. But

00:17:04.580 you got good days and bad days. Today is a

00:17:10.140 day's a little rougher than than some. But again, I'm here and I'm grateful for it.

00:17:16.260 Is is it the pain Joe or is it the treatment or because you were violently ill all the time with

00:17:26.700 the chemo, were you not? Yeah, the chemo. That's that's one of the things my wife and I struggled 0.80

00:17:33.380 with a lot when we first got diagnosed. You know, do we do Western medicine? Do we do all natural?

00:17:39.720 Um, and, um, you know, we prayed a lot and talked a lot and we said, well, why don't we do both?

00:17:48.440 And so, uh, right. You know, we, uh, started doing the chemo, but at the same time, my wife

00:17:54.140 has researched everything underneath the sun and she, there's so many Facebook groups out there and

00:17:59.820 organizations that will lead you down the natural path to crowd as well. And so, you know,

00:18:07.060 I try to do a little bit of both, but sometimes the chemo will keep you from taking pills or taking

00:18:12.000 supplements. Uh, you know, makes you tired all the time, makes you, makes you very sick. And, um,

00:18:18.820 you know, I dropped, uh, I dropped over a hundred pounds. I went from two 50 and right now I weigh 146

00:18:25.300 pounds.

00:18:29.600 How is, uh, how's the VA treating you?

00:18:32.900 Well, you know, there, there were some incredible people that we met at the VA,

00:18:39.120 people that really liked their job, people that really tried hard. But when it came to the

00:18:43.860 oncologist department, um, you kind of nailed it on the head when you were reading or talking about

00:18:49.580 it earlier is, um, yeah, this is what we do. This is the way we do it. If you want to do anything

00:18:55.160 else, you're going to have to go outside of our, our scope. You know, we would ask them about, uh,

00:19:00.660 vitamin C treatment. We would ask them about mistletoe. And these are two things that they've

00:19:05.660 been doing overseas for years. And, and they saw some, you know, some good, good things from them,

00:19:10.940 but it's nothing that the VA wanted any part of. And I mean, I even got my dander up a little bit

00:19:16.740 and said, you know, listen, me being a plumber, I want to know everything about plumbing there is

00:19:20.740 that way. When a customer comes to me and asks me about it, I have an answer.

00:19:24.500 When my wife and I come to you and talk to you about this, you know, uh, your, your guys's eyes

00:19:30.620 glaze over and you, you don't even want to even think about it. And I just, it, it got me angry

00:19:36.720 because it just seems that a lot of hospitals and big farm get in the way of, of, of real

00:19:43.860 movement going forward to cure some of this stuff. You know, if they can't make money off of it,

00:19:50.700 they don't want to, they don't want to research it. I know. Uh, so Joe, you have been very active.

00:20:00.740 You're active in your community. You've been raising money, uh, for a school. Uh, you've traveled

00:20:08.840 the country, um, just giving speeches for a long time because you were, you were roped into politics

00:20:17.680 about 2008. Um, and you have three young children. How old are your children?

00:20:25.720 Um, my, uh, oldest, I was, yeah, I don't know if you remember, but I was a single dad for years.

00:20:30.960 So I have a 28 year old son that I raised, raised by myself and he's doing outstanding. And then,

00:20:37.880 um, you know, the Lord blessed me with my current wife and, um, we have a 10 year old and eight

00:20:43.840 year old and a five year old, uh, two, uh, the oldest, uh, the 10 year olds, a girl and eight

00:20:49.320 year olds, a boy and the five year olds, another girl. Tell me about Katie there. Oh, Katie, I,

00:20:57.760 I've been calling her wonder woman ever since this has started. She has been such a rock for me. I mean,

00:21:04.640 between making sure that I get to church to, you know, running around, making sure I have a glass of

00:21:11.420 water to, to doing all the research that she can. Um, you know, I think she knows, sometimes I think

00:21:17.240 she knows more than the doctors because there's her nose in a book reading about cancer and the next 0.99

00:21:23.060 step that we can do. And, you know, she's taking care of either the three kids or she's taking care 0.60

00:21:28.320 of my dad or she's taking care of me. You're, she, you're, you're taking care of your dad. In fact,

00:21:36.200 you started to build a basement for your dad because your dad had an aneurysm, right?

00:21:43.340 Yeah. Years ago, my dad had an inoperable aneurysm and, um, who had a third best neurosurgeon in the

00:21:49.600 world came along and said, Hey, I think I can, I can help you here. And it was touch and go. We lost

00:21:55.300 him a couple of times on the table, but, um, he came through it. Um, but he still, um, it didn't leave

00:22:02.580 him in a position that to care for himself as much. And, uh, you know, my wife just fell

00:22:08.060 in love with my mom who passed away from cancer a couple of years ago. She fell in love with

00:22:13.440 my dad and she treats him just, just like her own parents. And she, you know, she goes

00:22:19.060 over and does his bills. She goes over and does all his shopping. Um, I mean, she just, uh,

00:22:27.200 she doesn't stop. It's just, you know, everybody else has 24 hours of the day and it seems like

00:22:31.800 she's got 48 hours as much as she gets done. 1.00

00:22:37.480 So you are, there's been a, um, excuse me, there has been a, uh, give, send, go, uh, that

00:22:49.200 has been opened. You just search for Joe, the plumber, and they're trying to raise money

00:22:54.860 to not only help with, uh, medical, but also to, uh, you're going to, you're trying to finish

00:23:01.640 the basement for your dad, right?

00:23:05.120 Well, that kind of goes up in the air. If we moved to Wisconsin, um, you know, my dad's

00:23:10.220 praying about it right now, but there's not actually a lot of support for him there either.

00:23:14.600 If we move, you know, he's, he's got some sisters there in the surrounding area, but, um,

00:23:20.740 you know, Katie's just not, Katie, Katie's worried that they wouldn't be there for him

00:23:26.360 as much as he might need. And so we're, we're actually looking, you know, I mean, you know,

00:23:32.140 Glenn, I'm, I believe in God. I'm a Christian and I know God can perform miracles at any time.

00:23:38.800 And I truly believe that it's, it's incredible feeling knowing that, but at the same time,

00:23:43.940 think you're out of cancer is no joke. And, you know, most people unfortunately pass away from it.

00:23:48.440 And so as a husband and a father, I just want to make sure my, my wife and children have the

00:23:54.360 support they're going to need at case that, you know, it goes the other way. And so moving them

00:23:59.240 to Wisconsin and having, having her parents here and her two sisters here and the kids as cousins

00:24:05.920 will really help, but it'll really help offset some of the pain and hurt that I'm sorry, excuse me,

00:24:13.760 but it'll really help. So that's what we're trying to make happen right now. We, uh, it's one thing,

00:24:22.380 I tell you what, it's, it's amazing. Just, you know, you got your friends and family, but it's

00:24:26.820 incredible. The amount of people I don't know who have reached out to offer prayers, to offer donations,

00:24:32.360 um, you know, there, there are so many great people in this world and I've been, I've been thankful to

00:24:39.920 meet a lot of them and, and some of them do anonymous donations and, you know, we, it's so,

00:24:46.300 you know, it's just, it's, it's been incredible in that regards, but yeah, no, I, we need to really

00:24:52.040 focusing on a couple of things. One is getting my wife and kids up here so that they'll have the

00:24:56.820 support they need as things move forward. And, um, and we're still, you know, we're still looking

00:25:03.760 for alternative medicines. We're still, um, looking at different clinics around the country. Um, you

00:25:09.840 know, I'm, I'm on one list for a trial, but there's no, there's no dates. Um, city of hope is reaching

00:25:17.360 out to some other hospitals, uh, in America. I've seen if there's any trials that I might, uh,

00:25:24.200 that might be able to get. Um, and, uh, the one thing with trials is that, uh, you know,

00:25:31.880 you have to fly to them or drive to them. And, you know, right now we've been driving from Ohio to,

00:25:36.780 uh, to Illinois for the last, you know, three and a half, four months, you know, getting,

00:25:42.020 and, you know, that it going through Chicago is not easy. It's never easy getting through Chicago,

00:25:47.280 but, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's difficult, but it's, it's, you know, it's, it's your life.

00:25:54.200 And so you'll do whatever it takes to, uh, that, uh, you know, to keep that life. It's precious.

00:26:03.880 Joe, um, I've only got about a minute. Um, but I want to thank you for everything that you have

00:26:12.060 done for the country and standing up and being brave enough and taking all of the hits. I remember,

00:26:18.520 uh, all of the hits that you took over and over and over again. Um, and just for being an average

00:26:25.560 citizen and asking an honest question, do you have, you know, as you face this, do you have any

00:26:32.340 advice or thoughts on, on life?

00:26:37.880 Uh, ultimately, I just pray more people come to God, Glenn. Um, you know, I've always, it's one

00:26:46.700 thing that helped me through all this from day one was staying grounded, uh, reading the good book

00:26:52.280 and, uh, and knowing that God was in charge and I wasn't. And so, um, you know, if you need help,

00:26:59.680 if you need strength, you know, God promised he'll be with us. He doesn't promise an easy road,

00:27:05.340 but he promised that he'd be with us. And that's something that my family and I have leaned on

00:27:10.100 for a very long time. And so that's, that's the one thing. You can take strength from God and,

00:27:15.560 and, uh, know that there are a lot more good people out there than bad. You know, we all,

00:27:20.800 we have some differences out there, but ultimately people want to do good things. And that's, that's

00:27:25.900 been, that's been incredible to see throughout this, uh, this last almost year.

00:27:31.940 Joe, rest assured if, uh, you know, a miracle doesn't happen, um, that, uh, we are here for

00:27:43.560 Katie and your kids and, um, we'll make sure that they're taken care of.

00:27:51.120 I can't thank you enough, Glenn. You've been very, very nice. And, uh, I just really appreciate

00:27:56.580 your concern. Thank you so much. You're good. Good man. Thank you. It's Joe, the plumber. Uh,

00:28:03.860 you can go to give send go, uh, and just search for Joe, the plumber that's give send go.com search

00:28:11.100 for Joe, the plumber. If you can help the family out back in just a minute, you're listening to the

00:28:16.940 best of the Glenn Beck program. I have to tell you, I, uh, I met a gentleman a few weeks ago and he gave

00:28:23.800 me his card because he said, I am, uh, the official documenting photographer of the shroud of Turin

00:28:31.460 when they did the last, uh, test on the shroud of Turin. If you don't know what the shroud of

00:28:37.240 Turin is, it is said to be the burial cloth of Christ. And, uh, there's a lot of controversy about

00:28:45.140 it because the carbon dating shows that it's not from, uh, the time of Christ. It's like 800 or a

00:28:52.140 thousand years later. Um, and they can tell you that it's definitely not the shroud of Christ,

00:28:58.520 but they cannot explain the image on the shroud. It is almost a photographic negative of a body,

00:29:08.500 uh, that has all of the wounds that Christ would have had. They can't tell you what it is,

00:29:14.640 but they can tell you what it's not. Well, Barry talks to me. And then all of a sudden,

00:29:21.360 one of my producers, uh, who was taking Torah study, um, here's about Barry, uh, in her Torah study.

00:29:30.660 And she reaches out to Barry and unbeknownst to me, she says, we got to get you on the show.

00:29:37.060 So on this day that I come in to tell everybody, we got a book, Barry, you know, down in Texas,

00:29:45.680 I'm in Idaho. My producer says, Hey, we gotta, we gotta get Barry on. I think he's going to be

00:29:51.920 great. And I said, have I already told you guys about him? No. Why? I think it's a God thing that

00:29:59.560 he's on. His name is Barry Schwartz and he is joining us now. Hello, Barry. How are you?

00:30:05.220 I'm doing great, Glenn. Thanks for having me on the program.

00:30:10.000 You bet. So, um, Barry, you are the, uh, the official documenting photographer. So you

00:30:17.140 were up close and personal with the shroud. You took all of the, the pictures. Were you a believer

00:30:24.620 that this was the, the burial, uh, garb of, of Christ when you first started? Absolutely not,

00:30:33.260 Glenn. I was a total skeptic. I was raised in an Orthodox Jewish home. Uh, although I'm a secular

00:30:39.740 Jew and not practicing, I didn't really have any emotional attachment to the shroud. Um,

00:30:46.080 and my involvement mainly became from my background as a photographer and imaging specialist.

00:30:51.600 And so I, I was invited onto the team to, uh, participate in the examination of the shroud.

00:30:59.180 We spent five days and nights nonstop working around the clock back in 1978 and performed

00:31:06.660 the first and only in-depth scientific study of that cloth that's ever been done in its history.

00:31:12.620 Okay. So you were one of three Jewish members of the shroud team. Were there non-skeptics on the

00:31:21.200 team? Uh, I'm sure that a few of the, uh, the members of the team were, uh, less skeptical than I

00:31:27.260 was. Let's put it that way. Okay. Uh, I think that most of the team members came from Los Alamos

00:31:32.680 National Labs, Sandia Labs, Air Force Weapons Lab. So, uh, these were hardcore scientists and thank God

00:31:40.100 for that because if they weren't hardcore scientists, the whole world might've blown up by

00:31:44.700 now. So, uh, they were very meticulous and, and absolutely the most empirical scientists I've

00:31:51.240 ever worked with. Okay. So they did the tests and they said, uh, it's, it's the carbon dating is

00:32:00.100 wrong and it's not the shroud. The carbon dating didn't happen until 10 years after we examined the

00:32:06.660 shroud. Uh, our team examined it and our primary purpose was really to determine how that image

00:32:13.560 was formed. Is it a painting? Is it a scorch or was it made photographically? And ultimately the

00:32:20.140 science eliminated all those possibilities. So as you said in the intro, uh, we can tell you what it's

00:32:26.660 not, but we don't know of a mechanism that can create an image on a piece of cloth with the same

00:32:32.040 chemical and physical properties that we documented on the shroud. So does it look like there's, I mean,

00:32:40.780 was it something that you were like, we can't explain it, but we can see somehow or another it's

00:32:48.260 man created? Well, we don't believe it is. There's nothing been added to the surface of that cloth.

00:32:55.200 And I mean, that's just the first thing we looked for was any paint, pigments, binders,

00:32:59.300 anything that would imply that something had been added to the cloth that would have created the

00:33:05.840 image. And we found nothing. If, if anything, the image itself is made of yellow discolored fibers

00:33:12.620 and it's the concentration of those fibers in any given area that indicates the darkness of that

00:33:20.220 area itself. So there really was nothing added there. So my initial response, even though I was

00:33:27.000 totally skeptic after about the first 15 minutes of looking at it with a 10 X magnifier, uh, I,

00:33:33.520 I knew that there wasn't any paint on the surface of that. And ultimately our, our mass spectrometry

00:33:39.660 and chemical analyses, X-ray analyses, all of that showed that nothing has been added, no pigments,

00:33:46.200 no paints, nothing has been added to that cloth to create that image.

00:33:52.740 I have to tell you, um, that's not what I thought the Shroud of Turin experts said. Uh, I've always

00:34:03.960 thought that the scientific experts deny that this is, uh, you know, from the time period and it was

00:34:11.720 definitely man-made it's not, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. You, you mentioned the

00:34:18.340 radiocarbon dating, which was done 10 years after our team completed our work. And, uh, for decades

00:34:25.940 after that, the world said, well, the Shroud must be a fake. It took 27 years in the freedom of

00:34:32.140 information act to get the British museum. That was the overseer of the three labs that did the, uh,

00:34:37.980 examine, or did the, uh, radiocarbon testing. It took 27 years for the British museum to release

00:34:45.460 the raw data, which is very unusual. Historically, a scientist, once his work is published in a journal,

00:34:51.960 will release the raw data. So other scientists can either repeat the experiment, which is part of

00:34:57.020 the scientific method, or, uh, perhaps take the information and, and try and get, go further with

00:35:03.200 it. Um, so we finally got the raw data and we can understand why they didn't want to release it.

00:35:09.440 It showed that the sample site, and there was only one sample taken, which is already bad science.

00:35:15.340 It showed that that sample was inhomogeneous, meaning it was a strip that was cut and there

00:35:20.980 was one date at one end and hundreds of years later at the other end of that strip. So there was nowhere

00:35:26.560 on that strip that we can claim gave us the date for anywhere else on that cloth. And they never took

00:35:33.180 a control sample from anywhere else. So the radiocarbon dating. So, so wait, wait, wait,

00:35:38.060 wait, I want to make sure I understand this. So this was like a, a repair made later on the cloth.

00:35:45.980 Correct.

00:35:46.500 That they took.

00:35:47.520 Yep. There's evidence in that corner where the sample was taken that there's cotton interwoven. And

00:35:52.720 you know, that goes against Jewish law. Uh, it's called mixing of the kinds and you're 1.00

00:35:57.520 not supposed to mix wool with cotton or cotton with the linen, uh, a burial shroud of someone

00:36:04.020 of high stature is supposed to be pure linen. And yet we found cotton in the corner that was

00:36:09.500 ultimately radiocarbon dated. And that implied that there was a repair or reweaving done in

00:36:14.960 that corner. And so they dated a repaired corner of the shroud, which could not give us an accurate

00:36:21.120 date for anywhere else on that cloth. Okay. Let me take a quick break and then come back with

00:36:26.400 you. I want to ask you, how do we know that there wasn't carbon in the rest of it? If we didn't take

00:36:30.600 another sample of the shroud, you can answer that when we come back the fight against leftism and

00:36:36.180 all of the dangerous things it stands for has only begun our victories, our losses serve as a force

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00:37:54.240 free activation today with the offer code back. Ask about their coverage guarantee while you're there.

00:37:59.180 It's patriotmobile.com slash back or 878-PATRIOT. 10 seconds, station ID.

00:38:10.500 So we're talking to Barry, Barry Schwartz, and he is the Shroud of Turin Research Project

00:38:25.620 official documenting photographer. He's also the Shroud of Turin Education and Research

00:38:31.480 Association president, and he has started shroud.com. First, let's go back to

00:38:40.240 there's cotton, and it should have been pure linen, and this is from a strip that looks like

00:38:46.120 it was a repair for, you know, maybe done at a later date, and that explains the carbon dating,

00:38:52.840 you say. But how do you know that there isn't cotton through the rest of the fiber if you didn't

00:38:58.180 test the rest of the fiber? Well, during our examination five days and nights in 78, we carefully

00:39:07.080 examine, you know, the shroud's almost 15 feet long, so while one scientist group was working

00:39:13.160 at one side of the shroud or one end of the shroud, other researchers were evaluating other parts of

00:39:19.180 the cloth, and Ray Rogers, our lead chemist from Los Alamos National Lab, probably spent more time in

00:39:26.720 front of that cloth than all the rest of us put together with a microscope examining fibers from

00:39:32.340 every part of that cloth, and we found no cotton anywhere else in that cloth, particularly interwoven.

00:39:39.020 We were wearing white cotton gloves, and some of the white cotton from our gloves

00:39:42.840 got onto the cloth, but that's modern cotton and distinguishable from ancient cotton.

00:39:51.540 So why would the British Museum do this?

00:39:54.600 Well, you know, Glenn, it's hard for me to speak to this, but I will say this, that as soon

00:40:03.040 as the results were leaked, even before their paper was published claiming the shroud was

00:40:07.940 medieval, the British Museum, or rather the Oxford Laboratory, one of the three labs that examined

00:40:15.300 the shroud, received a million pounds sterling from anonymous donors for debunking the shroud,

00:40:21.240 and Dr. Michael Tide of the British Museum, left the British Museum and took a permanent chair

00:40:27.120 at Oxford with some of that money. So I hate to say follow the money, but perhaps that had some

00:40:33.000 influence.

00:40:34.660 Okay, so you were a skeptic. You didn't believe in it. You're Jewish. You didn't feel emotional when you

00:40:45.120 first approached the shroud, which I would think I would. Even if it isn't real, it is so inspiring,

00:40:54.460 and, you know, if somebody did it, it's a miracle they did it. We don't know, understand how they

00:41:01.960 did it.

00:41:03.000 Right.

00:41:04.120 Well, look, I think...

00:41:05.000 But how do you feel... Go ahead.

00:41:08.040 I think we all had reverence for the subject matter. We all appreciated the fact that not only

00:41:13.840 was this an object of scientific research, but it was also an object of faith for a billion or so

00:41:18.820 people, so we all had great respect for it. And so, although I didn't have the same emotional

00:41:24.960 response that perhaps some of my Christian fellow team members might have had, we all treated it with

00:41:31.500 the highest respect and regard, and acted professionally throughout.

00:41:38.280 Sure. Now, how do you feel now?

00:41:40.560 Well, it took 17 years after we finished, and I had access, of course, to all the scientific

00:41:46.980 research. And after about 17 years, all of the questions that I had that had been unanswered

00:41:53.540 became answered, and I had to resign myself to the fact that the most plausible explanation for this

00:42:00.400 was that this is the burial shroud of the historic Jesus of Nazareth. You know, you don't have to be a

00:42:07.780 Christian to accept the historicity of Jesus and to accept that we might have an artifact

00:42:14.200 of that man's life considering the impact he's had on this planet.

00:42:17.600 Na-na-na-na-na! 0.67

The Glenn Beck Program - July 28, 2023

Best of the Program ｜ Guests： Joe the Plumber & Barrie Schwortz ｜ 7⧸28⧸23

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