Best of the Program ｜ Guests： Joe the Plumber & Barrie Schwortz ｜ 7⧸28⧸23
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Summary
Biden gets denied protection from the Secret Service, the Shroud of Turin gets dropped, and the Dems decide not to prosecute Sam Bankman Freed? Why? Carol Roth is here to talk about that and an incredible interview with Joe the Plumber you don t want to miss.
Transcript
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Today is an unbelievable show. I kind of blow a gasket over the Trump persecution,
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the things that are going on with Biden, RFK being turned down for Secret Service protection.
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Why? Why is that? Our situation is so bad. Our people in Washington are so corrupt
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if they're not literally brain damaged in some way. Quite a rant coming on that. Also,
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the Shroud of Turin and, oh, the Democrats, they decide not to prosecute Sam Bankman Freed.
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Why? Carol Roth is here to talk about that and an incredible interview with Joe the Plumber.
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You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck program.
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Carol Roth is with us now. She is the author of You Will O' Nothing. And she is also a former
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investment banker. She is recovering from all of those years. Welcome, Carol.
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Hi, Glenn. Happy Friday. And I hope you had a good week. It seems like one of those,
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you know, it's the wrong week to quit sniffing glue weeks. It's just one thing after another.
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It is crazy. First of all, Joe Biden's case, Hunter Biden's case falls apart. And there's a story
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today out that is talking about how angry his attorneys are at this judge for what? Doing her
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job. Then yesterday we find out that, what's his name? Sam Bankman Freed is, is being, the charges are
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being dropped for him on any kind of illegal campaign donations. He gave tens of millions of dollars
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to the Democrats. Tens of millions of dollars. And he did it illegally. He was doing it under other
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people's names, fake names, and under his company, which he can't do. But they dropped that. Why, Carol?
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Yeah, I mean, it's even worse than that. The allegations were that he was using customers'
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money to make the donation. So it wasn't even just the fake names. It was literally somebody had
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put their money with him as a custodian. And allegedly that's what happened. But so let's
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take a step back and remind everybody who this Sam Bankman Freed character is. He was this
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20-something wonder kid, you know, that just comes out of nowhere, who's altruistic. You know, he just
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wants to get rich so he can give it all away, Glenn. And he does this from a $40 million penthouse
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in a tax haven called the Bahamas. Absolutely nothing suspicious there, right? And when you
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think about financial frauds, you know, there's two different kinds. There's the ones that are,
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you know, try to stay away from the regulators. They're very under the radar. They try to stay,
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they're not trying to draw attention. And then there are the ones that run directly towards the
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politicians, usually because the politicians are involved. And I think about the, you know,
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1MDB sovereign debt scandal that happened over Malaysia as an example of that. So what happened
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here is that you had these prosecutors who brought Bankman Freed up on all charges. He was in the
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Bahamas at the time that he was charged in the U.S. signed an extradition treaty with the Bahamas.
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Now, obviously, the U.S. has a lot of leverage over the Bahamas, right? If you want the Bahamas to
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turn somebody over, it's not really that challenging to do it. So this is the second
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time that they have dropped a charge. And both of them are related, in my opinion. The first one
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was the violating anti-bribery statutes, right? And the second is these campaign finance charges.
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And if you think about that, they say, oh, well, that wasn't part of the extradition treaty.
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Okay. But again, the U.S. has massive leverage over the Bahamas. If this is something that you
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wanted to either be in the treaty to start with, or you wanted to pursue, this is not a difficult
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thing. The issue is that there's a lot at stake. You know, it would open up a huge deep dive into
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where all of this money went, you know, how it was used, if there was, you know, potentially any
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money laundering that was involved. Clearly a trail, a deep dive that a lot of very well-connected
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people who got this money didn't want to have happen. And then there potentially would be a
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renewed call for the politicians to return the money. A handful did, but many, many didn't.
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And, you know, just a kind of a look into what's happening with, you know, all these offshore
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accounts that allegedly Beckman-Fried was setting up and involved in. So this is, you know, if you
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believe in the simplest answer is the right answer here, the fact that you had both bribery and finance
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charges, it's because of his cozy nature with the politicians and the fact that they were all
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involved in this at, you know, various different levels and they don't want that information coming
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out. So Carol, I look at the billions, hundreds of billions of dollars that we are sending to Ukraine
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and we know now, I mean, most people aren't talking about this and I don't know why, but on Wednesday
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in front of the judge, Hunter Biden said, yes. Okay. I did take money from China. So all of the,
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all of the lies of the past that we knew were lies, at least anyone who's paying attention now been
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confirmed. He took money from Ukraine as well. And this is a country we're sending hundreds of billions
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of dollars toward, and there's no oversight. It is almost as if the biggest heist is happening
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right under our noses and we see it, but we're not doing anything about it. I think there's a very
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good chance that this was all just money laundering and putting this money. Do you know how much of the
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world you could change with, with a hundred million dollars? Can you imagine what you could change with
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a billion dollars? I mean, all of this untracked or untraceable all over the world, who's getting all
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this money? You mean to tell me you don't think that Hunter Biden is a Renaissance man, that, you know,
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his amazing discretion, highly sought after to sit on international boards and lead international
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dealings. Oh, and by the way, to be an amazing painter that commands, you know, six figures for
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his paintings. It is, it's so blatant. It's obscene. It's so out in the open. It is just, it's almost like
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they're rubbing everybody's faces in it and they're just seeing how far they can push. And unfortunately,
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people are so wrapped up in the day-to-day nonsense that there really isn't any pushback
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against these issues. I mean, I couldn't even begin to speculate what is happening with this money that
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we're sending over because there's so much of it. It's entirely unaccounted for. And it doesn't seem
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to stop. Who does that? No. And who does that? And now we have a guy who we know was taking
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other people's money and sending it to politicians and donating it in ways that are highly illegal
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and nobody's going to look into it. I mean, it is, it's very hard not to be a conspiracy theorist
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and say, they're all in on a money laundering thing. Something else is going on.
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Yeah. I mean, again, allegedly, it seems that to be a realistic outcome because how could it not?
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And when you look at how hard they've been going after President Trump from the time that he came
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down that elevator to announce his presidency to yesterday and all of the things that they, you know,
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these, these little things, many of them made up that they were going after all the while doing
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many of the same things that they're accusing him of doing or much worse. It's just, it's beyond a
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two tiers system of justice. It's, you know, if you are with us, you are going to benefit. We're going
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to find a way to move this money around and get everybody paid. And, you know, as I've always said
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that Congress is a place where you legally launder money. So this could be a, you know,
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a legal laundering of it. But see, clearly people are getting paid in a way that, you know,
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our government was not set up to make sure that they were getting paid.
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The rest of the charges, is he going away for a very long time?
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You know, I guess it depends on who, who he knows and, and, and what they want to come
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out and what they don't want to come out. I mean, if you think about, you know, back in
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December of 2022, Maxine Waters, who previously was blowing kisses at Sam Bankman-Fried in a
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hearing on crypto, you know, she put out that tweet about, oh, you know, you've been so candid
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in your discussions and we're so happy that you would talk to the public. I mean, when does somebody
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in Congress ever do something like that? I mean, it's just so blatant and so bizarre. So he's clearly
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incredibly well tied and there's something much deeper going on here. So whether he gets off,
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whether he gets disappeared, whether the camera in his jail cell stops working, like, you know,
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so many others, Glenn, or not, I think depends on the level of what has happened behind the scenes.
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And, you know, it's like this onion. Every time we peel back a layer, we're finding more and more.
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There is much more going on here because of the level of the money we were talking about here and
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his cozy nature with all the politicians. As I said, when we started, usually with financial fraud,
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you don't want the attention of people who are regulators and people in Congress and those
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high-profile people unless they're involved. And that's what happened with 1MDB and all of these
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other corruption issues. So the fact that you have, you know, all of these people who were running
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cover for him and you're not standing up and denouncing him and now you're getting these charges
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dropped says to me there's something deeper we haven't discovered yet.
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That is terrifying, Carol. Thank you so much. Carol Roth, the author of
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You Will Own Nothing. Will you hold on just a second, Carol? Because I want to talk to you about
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the GDP here in a second. But before I go to commercial, I have to say what she just said
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about the charges on Donald Trump. Have you gotten the message yet? You are not to stand up
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against the machine or they will destroy you. That's the message that they are trying to send.
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Donald Trump, I contend, is maybe the cleanest person ever to go to Washington.
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This guy has been investigated by every intelligence agency, both friend and foe. More investigations have
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been done on that guy than anyone else. And they have to make things up to be able to charge.
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I mean, it is, it's obscene. It is absolutely obscene. And they are doing it to make sure you understand
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if we can do that to him. That guy may go to jail. Why? Because he wouldn't play the game with the rest of
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the machine. It is sick what's going on. I thank God for you. I really do. I would have such little hope
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hope if it wasn't for you. Standing up every day and being heard and caring about it. My gosh, if I felt alone,
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don't ever feel alone. There's millions of Americans who are just as upset about this as you are.
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We just have to continue to stand up and not accept the lies. You're listening to the best of the Glenn Beck
00:14:24.820
program. I want to tell you about a veteran, a veteran who has served his country and then
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served in an entirely different way. Somebody that, you know, let's call him Joe.
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He started having problems in his stomach on September of 2022. He tried to self-diagnose,
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thought maybe it was lactose intolerance or, you know, allergic to gluten or whatever.
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Come December, the pain is so bad that he goes to the emergency room at the VA center and he's
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sent home with pain medication, but no real answers. The pain got worse and worse and Joe
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went back to the emergency room. They found then a mass on his pancreas. The VA did a test,
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told him it was cancer. Then they called back four days later and said, oh no, you know what?
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It isn't cancer. Then on January 11th, the VA called and said, no, it is cancer. It's stage three
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pancreatic cancer. So he goes through eight months, eight, I'm sorry, eight rounds of chemo. But
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unfortunately the cancer had spread to his liver as well. The VA wouldn't work with him and his wife.
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They wanted to try naturopathic medicines as well. And it was this the way we do things and that's
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it. You know, when you're talking about somebody's life or your own life, you don't want to leave any
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stone unturned. So they started looking around the country and the world for alternatives.
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And Joe and his wife said, God has answered our prayers. Joe was accepted to cancer treatments of
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America known as the city of hope, where they do Western medicine and naturopathic medicine.
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Unfortunately, as of July 26th, the new chemo has stopped working. Now Joe's on a list for a new trial
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medicine for pancreatic cancer. Unfortunately, there is not a current start date for the new trial.
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They're trying to move to Wisconsin for be around more family and get more support for family.
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And they're three young, beautiful children. His wife's name is Katie. His name is Joe, but you know him
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as Joe the plumber. And he's on with us now. Hey, Joe.
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You bet. You sound a lot different than you did when we when we first spoke all those many years ago.
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Oh, you know, every day is a blessing. I wake up in the morning, I'm here. So that makes me happy. But
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day's a little rougher than than some. But again, I'm here and I'm grateful for it.
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Is is it the pain Joe or is it the treatment or because you were violently ill all the time with
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the chemo, were you not? Yeah, the chemo. That's that's one of the things my wife and I struggled
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with a lot when we first got diagnosed. You know, do we do Western medicine? Do we do all natural?
00:17:39.720
Um, and, um, you know, we prayed a lot and talked a lot and we said, well, why don't we do both?
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And so, uh, right. You know, we, uh, started doing the chemo, but at the same time, my wife
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has researched everything underneath the sun and she, there's so many Facebook groups out there and
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organizations that will lead you down the natural path to crowd as well. And so, you know,
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I try to do a little bit of both, but sometimes the chemo will keep you from taking pills or taking
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supplements. Uh, you know, makes you tired all the time, makes you, makes you very sick. And, um,
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you know, I dropped, uh, I dropped over a hundred pounds. I went from two 50 and right now I weigh 146
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Well, you know, there, there were some incredible people that we met at the VA,
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people that really liked their job, people that really tried hard. But when it came to the
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oncologist department, um, you kind of nailed it on the head when you were reading or talking about
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it earlier is, um, yeah, this is what we do. This is the way we do it. If you want to do anything
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else, you're going to have to go outside of our, our scope. You know, we would ask them about, uh,
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vitamin C treatment. We would ask them about mistletoe. And these are two things that they've
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been doing overseas for years. And, and they saw some, you know, some good, good things from them,
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but it's nothing that the VA wanted any part of. And I mean, I even got my dander up a little bit
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and said, you know, listen, me being a plumber, I want to know everything about plumbing there is
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that way. When a customer comes to me and asks me about it, I have an answer.
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When my wife and I come to you and talk to you about this, you know, uh, your, your guys's eyes
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glaze over and you, you don't even want to even think about it. And I just, it, it got me angry
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because it just seems that a lot of hospitals and big farm get in the way of, of, of real
00:19:43.860
movement going forward to cure some of this stuff. You know, if they can't make money off of it,
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they don't want to, they don't want to research it. I know. Uh, so Joe, you have been very active.
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You're active in your community. You've been raising money, uh, for a school. Uh, you've traveled
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the country, um, just giving speeches for a long time because you were, you were roped into politics
00:20:17.680
about 2008. Um, and you have three young children. How old are your children?
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Um, my, uh, oldest, I was, yeah, I don't know if you remember, but I was a single dad for years.
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So I have a 28 year old son that I raised, raised by myself and he's doing outstanding. And then,
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um, you know, the Lord blessed me with my current wife and, um, we have a 10 year old and eight
00:20:43.840
year old and a five year old, uh, two, uh, the oldest, uh, the 10 year olds, a girl and eight
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year olds, a boy and the five year olds, another girl. Tell me about Katie there. Oh, Katie, I,
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I've been calling her wonder woman ever since this has started. She has been such a rock for me. I mean,
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between making sure that I get to church to, you know, running around, making sure I have a glass of
00:21:11.420
water to, to doing all the research that she can. Um, you know, I think she knows, sometimes I think
00:21:17.240
she knows more than the doctors because there's her nose in a book reading about cancer and the next
00:21:23.060
step that we can do. And, you know, she's taking care of either the three kids or she's taking care
00:21:28.320
of my dad or she's taking care of me. You're, she, you're, you're taking care of your dad. In fact,
00:21:36.200
you started to build a basement for your dad because your dad had an aneurysm, right?
00:21:43.340
Yeah. Years ago, my dad had an inoperable aneurysm and, um, who had a third best neurosurgeon in the
00:21:49.600
world came along and said, Hey, I think I can, I can help you here. And it was touch and go. We lost
00:21:55.300
him a couple of times on the table, but, um, he came through it. Um, but he still, um, it didn't leave
00:22:02.580
him in a position that to care for himself as much. And, uh, you know, my wife just fell
00:22:08.060
in love with my mom who passed away from cancer a couple of years ago. She fell in love with
00:22:13.440
my dad and she treats him just, just like her own parents. And she, you know, she goes
00:22:19.060
over and does his bills. She goes over and does all his shopping. Um, I mean, she just, uh,
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she doesn't stop. It's just, you know, everybody else has 24 hours of the day and it seems like
00:22:37.480
So you are, there's been a, um, excuse me, there has been a, uh, give, send, go, uh, that
00:22:49.200
has been opened. You just search for Joe, the plumber, and they're trying to raise money
00:22:54.860
to not only help with, uh, medical, but also to, uh, you're going to, you're trying to finish
00:23:05.120
Well, that kind of goes up in the air. If we moved to Wisconsin, um, you know, my dad's
00:23:10.220
praying about it right now, but there's not actually a lot of support for him there either.
00:23:14.600
If we move, you know, he's, he's got some sisters there in the surrounding area, but, um,
00:23:20.740
you know, Katie's just not, Katie, Katie's worried that they wouldn't be there for him
00:23:26.360
as much as he might need. And so we're, we're actually looking, you know, I mean, you know,
00:23:32.140
Glenn, I'm, I believe in God. I'm a Christian and I know God can perform miracles at any time.
00:23:38.800
And I truly believe that it's, it's incredible feeling knowing that, but at the same time,
00:23:43.940
think you're out of cancer is no joke. And, you know, most people unfortunately pass away from it.
00:23:48.440
And so as a husband and a father, I just want to make sure my, my wife and children have the
00:23:54.360
support they're going to need at case that, you know, it goes the other way. And so moving them
00:23:59.240
to Wisconsin and having, having her parents here and her two sisters here and the kids as cousins
00:24:05.920
will really help, but it'll really help offset some of the pain and hurt that I'm sorry, excuse me,
00:24:13.760
but it'll really help. So that's what we're trying to make happen right now. We, uh, it's one thing,
00:24:22.380
I tell you what, it's, it's amazing. Just, you know, you got your friends and family, but it's
00:24:26.820
incredible. The amount of people I don't know who have reached out to offer prayers, to offer donations,
00:24:32.360
um, you know, there, there are so many great people in this world and I've been, I've been thankful to
00:24:39.920
meet a lot of them and, and some of them do anonymous donations and, you know, we, it's so,
00:24:46.300
you know, it's just, it's, it's been incredible in that regards, but yeah, no, I, we need to really
00:24:52.040
focusing on a couple of things. One is getting my wife and kids up here so that they'll have the
00:24:56.820
support they need as things move forward. And, um, and we're still, you know, we're still looking
00:25:03.760
for alternative medicines. We're still, um, looking at different clinics around the country. Um, you
00:25:09.840
know, I'm, I'm on one list for a trial, but there's no, there's no dates. Um, city of hope is reaching
00:25:17.360
out to some other hospitals, uh, in America. I've seen if there's any trials that I might, uh,
00:25:24.200
that might be able to get. Um, and, uh, the one thing with trials is that, uh, you know,
00:25:31.880
you have to fly to them or drive to them. And, you know, right now we've been driving from Ohio to,
00:25:36.780
uh, to Illinois for the last, you know, three and a half, four months, you know, getting,
00:25:42.020
and, you know, that it going through Chicago is not easy. It's never easy getting through Chicago,
00:25:47.280
but, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's difficult, but it's, it's, you know, it's, it's your life.
00:25:54.200
And so you'll do whatever it takes to, uh, that, uh, you know, to keep that life. It's precious.
00:26:03.880
Joe, um, I've only got about a minute. Um, but I want to thank you for everything that you have
00:26:12.060
done for the country and standing up and being brave enough and taking all of the hits. I remember,
00:26:18.520
uh, all of the hits that you took over and over and over again. Um, and just for being an average
00:26:25.560
citizen and asking an honest question, do you have, you know, as you face this, do you have any
00:26:37.880
Uh, ultimately, I just pray more people come to God, Glenn. Um, you know, I've always, it's one
00:26:46.700
thing that helped me through all this from day one was staying grounded, uh, reading the good book
00:26:52.280
and, uh, and knowing that God was in charge and I wasn't. And so, um, you know, if you need help,
00:26:59.680
if you need strength, you know, God promised he'll be with us. He doesn't promise an easy road,
00:27:05.340
but he promised that he'd be with us. And that's something that my family and I have leaned on
00:27:10.100
for a very long time. And so that's, that's the one thing. You can take strength from God and,
00:27:15.560
and, uh, know that there are a lot more good people out there than bad. You know, we all,
00:27:20.800
we have some differences out there, but ultimately people want to do good things. And that's, that's
00:27:25.900
been, that's been incredible to see throughout this, uh, this last almost year.
00:27:31.940
Joe, rest assured if, uh, you know, a miracle doesn't happen, um, that, uh, we are here for
00:27:43.560
Katie and your kids and, um, we'll make sure that they're taken care of.
00:27:51.120
I can't thank you enough, Glenn. You've been very, very nice. And, uh, I just really appreciate
00:27:56.580
your concern. Thank you so much. You're good. Good man. Thank you. It's Joe, the plumber. Uh,
00:28:03.860
you can go to give send go, uh, and just search for Joe, the plumber that's give send go.com search
00:28:11.100
for Joe, the plumber. If you can help the family out back in just a minute, you're listening to the
00:28:16.940
best of the Glenn Beck program. I have to tell you, I, uh, I met a gentleman a few weeks ago and he gave
00:28:23.800
me his card because he said, I am, uh, the official documenting photographer of the shroud of Turin
00:28:31.460
when they did the last, uh, test on the shroud of Turin. If you don't know what the shroud of
00:28:37.240
Turin is, it is said to be the burial cloth of Christ. And, uh, there's a lot of controversy about
00:28:45.140
it because the carbon dating shows that it's not from, uh, the time of Christ. It's like 800 or a
00:28:52.140
thousand years later. Um, and they can tell you that it's definitely not the shroud of Christ,
00:28:58.520
but they cannot explain the image on the shroud. It is almost a photographic negative of a body,
00:29:08.500
uh, that has all of the wounds that Christ would have had. They can't tell you what it is,
00:29:14.640
but they can tell you what it's not. Well, Barry talks to me. And then all of a sudden,
00:29:21.360
one of my producers, uh, who was taking Torah study, um, here's about Barry, uh, in her Torah study.
00:29:30.660
And she reaches out to Barry and unbeknownst to me, she says, we got to get you on the show.
00:29:37.060
So on this day that I come in to tell everybody, we got a book, Barry, you know, down in Texas,
00:29:45.680
I'm in Idaho. My producer says, Hey, we gotta, we gotta get Barry on. I think he's going to be
00:29:51.920
great. And I said, have I already told you guys about him? No. Why? I think it's a God thing that
00:29:59.560
he's on. His name is Barry Schwartz and he is joining us now. Hello, Barry. How are you?
00:30:05.220
I'm doing great, Glenn. Thanks for having me on the program.
00:30:10.000
You bet. So, um, Barry, you are the, uh, the official documenting photographer. So you
00:30:17.140
were up close and personal with the shroud. You took all of the, the pictures. Were you a believer
00:30:24.620
that this was the, the burial, uh, garb of, of Christ when you first started? Absolutely not,
00:30:33.260
Glenn. I was a total skeptic. I was raised in an Orthodox Jewish home. Uh, although I'm a secular
00:30:39.740
Jew and not practicing, I didn't really have any emotional attachment to the shroud. Um,
00:30:46.080
and my involvement mainly became from my background as a photographer and imaging specialist.
00:30:51.600
And so I, I was invited onto the team to, uh, participate in the examination of the shroud.
00:30:59.180
We spent five days and nights nonstop working around the clock back in 1978 and performed
00:31:06.660
the first and only in-depth scientific study of that cloth that's ever been done in its history.
00:31:12.620
Okay. So you were one of three Jewish members of the shroud team. Were there non-skeptics on the
00:31:21.200
team? Uh, I'm sure that a few of the, uh, the members of the team were, uh, less skeptical than I
00:31:27.260
was. Let's put it that way. Okay. Uh, I think that most of the team members came from Los Alamos
00:31:32.680
National Labs, Sandia Labs, Air Force Weapons Lab. So, uh, these were hardcore scientists and thank God
00:31:40.100
for that because if they weren't hardcore scientists, the whole world might've blown up by
00:31:44.700
now. So, uh, they were very meticulous and, and absolutely the most empirical scientists I've
00:31:51.240
ever worked with. Okay. So they did the tests and they said, uh, it's, it's the carbon dating is
00:32:00.100
wrong and it's not the shroud. The carbon dating didn't happen until 10 years after we examined the
00:32:06.660
shroud. Uh, our team examined it and our primary purpose was really to determine how that image
00:32:13.560
was formed. Is it a painting? Is it a scorch or was it made photographically? And ultimately the
00:32:20.140
science eliminated all those possibilities. So as you said in the intro, uh, we can tell you what it's
00:32:26.660
not, but we don't know of a mechanism that can create an image on a piece of cloth with the same
00:32:32.040
chemical and physical properties that we documented on the shroud. So does it look like there's, I mean,
00:32:40.780
was it something that you were like, we can't explain it, but we can see somehow or another it's
00:32:48.260
man created? Well, we don't believe it is. There's nothing been added to the surface of that cloth.
00:32:55.200
And I mean, that's just the first thing we looked for was any paint, pigments, binders,
00:32:59.300
anything that would imply that something had been added to the cloth that would have created the
00:33:05.840
image. And we found nothing. If, if anything, the image itself is made of yellow discolored fibers
00:33:12.620
and it's the concentration of those fibers in any given area that indicates the darkness of that
00:33:20.220
area itself. So there really was nothing added there. So my initial response, even though I was
00:33:27.000
totally skeptic after about the first 15 minutes of looking at it with a 10 X magnifier, uh, I,
00:33:33.520
I knew that there wasn't any paint on the surface of that. And ultimately our, our mass spectrometry
00:33:39.660
and chemical analyses, X-ray analyses, all of that showed that nothing has been added, no pigments,
00:33:46.200
no paints, nothing has been added to that cloth to create that image.
00:33:52.740
I have to tell you, um, that's not what I thought the Shroud of Turin experts said. Uh, I've always
00:34:03.960
thought that the scientific experts deny that this is, uh, you know, from the time period and it was
00:34:11.720
definitely man-made it's not, I'm sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead. You, you mentioned the
00:34:18.340
radiocarbon dating, which was done 10 years after our team completed our work. And, uh, for decades
00:34:25.940
after that, the world said, well, the Shroud must be a fake. It took 27 years in the freedom of
00:34:32.140
information act to get the British museum. That was the overseer of the three labs that did the, uh,
00:34:37.980
examine, or did the, uh, radiocarbon testing. It took 27 years for the British museum to release
00:34:45.460
the raw data, which is very unusual. Historically, a scientist, once his work is published in a journal,
00:34:51.960
will release the raw data. So other scientists can either repeat the experiment, which is part of
00:34:57.020
the scientific method, or, uh, perhaps take the information and, and try and get, go further with
00:35:03.200
it. Um, so we finally got the raw data and we can understand why they didn't want to release it.
00:35:09.440
It showed that the sample site, and there was only one sample taken, which is already bad science.
00:35:15.340
It showed that that sample was inhomogeneous, meaning it was a strip that was cut and there
00:35:20.980
was one date at one end and hundreds of years later at the other end of that strip. So there was nowhere
00:35:26.560
on that strip that we can claim gave us the date for anywhere else on that cloth. And they never took
00:35:33.180
a control sample from anywhere else. So the radiocarbon dating. So, so wait, wait, wait,
00:35:38.060
wait, I want to make sure I understand this. So this was like a, a repair made later on the cloth.
00:35:47.520
Yep. There's evidence in that corner where the sample was taken that there's cotton interwoven. And
00:35:52.720
you know, that goes against Jewish law. Uh, it's called mixing of the kinds and you're
00:35:57.520
not supposed to mix wool with cotton or cotton with the linen, uh, a burial shroud of someone
00:36:04.020
of high stature is supposed to be pure linen. And yet we found cotton in the corner that was
00:36:09.500
ultimately radiocarbon dated. And that implied that there was a repair or reweaving done in
00:36:14.960
that corner. And so they dated a repaired corner of the shroud, which could not give us an accurate
00:36:21.120
date for anywhere else on that cloth. Okay. Let me take a quick break and then come back with
00:36:26.400
you. I want to ask you, how do we know that there wasn't carbon in the rest of it? If we didn't take
00:36:30.600
another sample of the shroud, you can answer that when we come back the fight against leftism and
00:36:36.180
all of the dangerous things it stands for has only begun our victories, our losses serve as a force
00:36:42.440
in which our character as conservative people are shaped and tested. I am committed to the fight
00:36:48.860
against injustice, indecency, and I will not change. I hope you're with me on this fight. If you're
00:36:57.240
like me, you've made a commitment to never send money to leftists or leftist causes when you don't
00:37:02.380
have to. Well, if you have a cell phone and you're one, you're with one of the big three, you are sending
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They have dependable nationwide coverage on all three major networks. They're on the same towers.
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So you get the best possible service in your area. You're not going to lose your coverage that you
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It's patriotmobile.com slash back or 878-PATRIOT. 10 seconds, station ID.
00:38:10.500
So we're talking to Barry, Barry Schwartz, and he is the Shroud of Turin Research Project
00:38:25.620
official documenting photographer. He's also the Shroud of Turin Education and Research
00:38:31.480
Association president, and he has started shroud.com. First, let's go back to
00:38:40.240
there's cotton, and it should have been pure linen, and this is from a strip that looks like
00:38:46.120
it was a repair for, you know, maybe done at a later date, and that explains the carbon dating,
00:38:52.840
you say. But how do you know that there isn't cotton through the rest of the fiber if you didn't
00:38:58.180
test the rest of the fiber? Well, during our examination five days and nights in 78, we carefully
00:39:07.080
examine, you know, the shroud's almost 15 feet long, so while one scientist group was working
00:39:13.160
at one side of the shroud or one end of the shroud, other researchers were evaluating other parts of
00:39:19.180
the cloth, and Ray Rogers, our lead chemist from Los Alamos National Lab, probably spent more time in
00:39:26.720
front of that cloth than all the rest of us put together with a microscope examining fibers from
00:39:32.340
every part of that cloth, and we found no cotton anywhere else in that cloth, particularly interwoven.
00:39:39.020
We were wearing white cotton gloves, and some of the white cotton from our gloves
00:39:42.840
got onto the cloth, but that's modern cotton and distinguishable from ancient cotton.
00:39:54.600
Well, you know, Glenn, it's hard for me to speak to this, but I will say this, that as soon
00:40:03.040
as the results were leaked, even before their paper was published claiming the shroud was
00:40:07.940
medieval, the British Museum, or rather the Oxford Laboratory, one of the three labs that examined
00:40:15.300
the shroud, received a million pounds sterling from anonymous donors for debunking the shroud,
00:40:21.240
and Dr. Michael Tide of the British Museum, left the British Museum and took a permanent chair
00:40:27.120
at Oxford with some of that money. So I hate to say follow the money, but perhaps that had some
00:40:34.660
Okay, so you were a skeptic. You didn't believe in it. You're Jewish. You didn't feel emotional when you
00:40:45.120
first approached the shroud, which I would think I would. Even if it isn't real, it is so inspiring,
00:40:54.460
and, you know, if somebody did it, it's a miracle they did it. We don't know, understand how they
00:41:08.040
I think we all had reverence for the subject matter. We all appreciated the fact that not only
00:41:13.840
was this an object of scientific research, but it was also an object of faith for a billion or so
00:41:18.820
people, so we all had great respect for it. And so, although I didn't have the same emotional
00:41:24.960
response that perhaps some of my Christian fellow team members might have had, we all treated it with
00:41:31.500
the highest respect and regard, and acted professionally throughout.
00:41:40.560
Well, it took 17 years after we finished, and I had access, of course, to all the scientific
00:41:46.980
research. And after about 17 years, all of the questions that I had that had been unanswered
00:41:53.540
became answered, and I had to resign myself to the fact that the most plausible explanation for this
00:42:00.400
was that this is the burial shroud of the historic Jesus of Nazareth. You know, you don't have to be a
00:42:07.780
Christian to accept the historicity of Jesus and to accept that we might have an artifact
00:42:14.200
of that man's life considering the impact he's had on this planet.