The Glenn Beck Program - Best of the Program ｜ Guests： Rory Sutherland & Dr. Gad Saad ｜ 5⧸15⧸19

00:00:00.260 We have a great podcast for you today. Unfortunately, it starts off in the wrong direction.

00:00:06.840 Fred from the DNC calls to relaunch Beto's campaign.

00:00:12.860 Then we talk a little bit about Fetus. We have Scott Palmer on.

00:00:19.260 If you listen to yesterday's podcast, Stu told a story about this woman bartender

00:00:25.260 that is facing up to a year in jail, and she's a hero.

00:00:31.660 We talked to her attorney today. He agrees with us.

00:00:34.740 He doesn't think it's actually going to get to court.

00:00:36.920 We also talked to a really brilliant marketing mind, Rory Sutherland from England.

00:00:43.340 He is the author of a new book called Alchemy, where he talks about how do you get people to drink

00:00:50.980 something like Red Bull that tastes like dog crap.

00:00:56.100 I haven't eaten dog crap, but I'm guessing dog crap might even taste better than Red Bull.

00:01:04.300 We talked to him, and then right into Gad Saad, another evolutionary scientist on marketing.

00:01:10.980 And Gad, we spent an hour with, and you don't want to miss a second of it, all on today's podcast.

00:01:20.980 You're listening to The Best of the Glenn Beck Program.

00:01:32.060 It's that time to talk to you a little bit about Home Title Lock.

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00:02:47.800 Do it now.

00:02:49.080 HomeTitleLock.com.

00:02:50.480 Why do I have to?

00:02:51.500 I'm sorry.

00:02:52.100 Hang on just a second.

00:02:52.920 Who the hell is Fred?

00:02:54.640 Glenn?

00:02:55.640 Hello?

00:02:56.220 Hi, how are you doing?

00:02:57.160 It's Fred McCostrap.

00:02:58.760 This guy again.

00:03:00.080 I'm so glad you had me on again.

00:03:01.800 No, I...

00:03:02.600 I'm the head of the Republican Outreach for the DNC,

00:03:05.740 and I am really excited to tell you about some of our fabulous candidates.

00:03:09.540 We've got so many of them, and your audience is just going to love them.

00:03:12.580 Okay, I don't think so.

00:03:14.860 Fred, you were on last week or earlier this week,

00:03:17.740 and you were pitching...

00:03:20.660 Who was it?

00:03:22.180 Elizabeth Warren?

00:03:22.920 We're talking about Elizabeth Warren.

00:03:24.080 She's fantastic, but I can understand how...

00:03:26.560 We've had some negative feedback from our recommendation of Elizabeth Warren from your audience,

00:03:32.660 and I am totally with them.

00:03:34.640 I'm a lifelong Republican myself.

00:03:36.920 Just switched.

00:03:37.920 You loved her.

00:03:39.180 Well, yeah, but there were some interesting points that your audience brought up,

00:03:42.800 and I'm not here to talk about Elizabeth today.

00:03:45.140 We had a little bit of a backlash from last time,

00:03:49.260 but I want to tell you about someone you're really going to love.

00:03:51.700 Oh, my goodness.

00:03:53.180 You are going to love this candidate today.

00:03:55.240 All right.

00:03:55.280 Who is it?

00:03:55.980 His name is Robert Francis O'Rourke.

00:03:59.060 Now, this guy, first of all, a Texan.

00:04:01.680 You want to say Texan.

00:04:03.340 You look at this guy, and you just say,

00:04:04.560 Wow, how big is that belt buckle?

00:04:07.500 That's the first thing you think of when you think of Robert Francis O'Rourke.

00:04:10.860 No, first of all, you're the first Democrat I've ever heard call him anything but Beto,

00:04:17.100 and he's definitely not a Texan.

00:04:20.100 I mean, he doesn't have any of the traits of Texas.

00:04:22.900 I don't understand why people think this.

00:04:24.820 He's a real misconception, this one, Glenn,

00:04:27.440 and I'm glad you brought it up so we could talk about it

00:04:29.520 because your audience is really going to love this guy.

00:04:31.980 Okay, first of all, it's not Beto.

00:04:33.980 His name is not Beto.

00:04:35.000 His name's Bob.

00:04:36.000 You can call him Robert if you want to be formal about it.

00:04:38.360 You can call him Bob.

00:04:39.440 But he's got all the things Republicans want in a candidate.

00:04:43.300 Number one, he's white. 0.85

00:04:45.680 And I know that's a huge thing your audience demands in a candidate.

00:04:49.400 We must have someone who's white. 0.99

00:04:51.440 No, we don't.

00:04:52.800 That's not true.

00:04:54.640 It's absolutely – I know what you're saying.

00:04:56.660 And wink, wink, I'm with you on this one.

00:04:59.260 I mean, he lost to Ted Cruz.

00:05:01.380 Here's the thing.

00:05:02.560 Ted Cruz.

00:05:03.820 I mean, you know, Cruz.

00:05:06.140 You know what I'm saying.

00:05:07.400 You can tell what he is, right?

00:05:08.980 Your audience is going to love this type of analysis, I know.

00:05:11.580 That's why I'm giving it to you.

00:05:12.840 Okay, so secondly, first of all, he's white, so I know your audience will love him.

00:05:16.860 Number two, he's a man.

00:05:18.820 None of these emotions and periods and all this other stuff that's going on with these women. 0.84

00:05:23.060 Am I right?

00:05:23.980 Okay, so that's number two.

00:05:25.240 No, you're not right.

00:05:26.040 He's rich.

00:05:28.260 It's not one of these poor people.

00:05:30.220 He's not one of these people who are middle class.

00:05:32.340 I want someone who's really super rich.

00:05:34.680 Right.

00:05:34.820 And number four, your audience is going to really appreciate this one.

00:05:38.220 He did absolutely nothing for his money.

00:05:41.300 He's inheriting it.

00:05:42.640 He's getting it from his wife or whatever.

00:05:44.280 However, this is a guy who really is going to connect with your audience.

00:05:48.880 Have you heard his music yet?

00:05:50.380 He's a musician, a wonderful musician.

00:05:52.620 His music is horrible.

00:05:53.840 The whitest music you can possibly imagine.

00:05:56.980 Benno?

00:05:57.720 I mean, come on.

00:05:58.500 This guy, he is about...

00:06:00.500 Is this part of the reintroduction of Bob Francis?

00:06:05.080 There was a directive that went out for me to give you a call today.

00:06:09.420 But this guy, I mean, his music basically makes Barry Benno look like Jimi Hendrix.

00:06:14.100 That's basically where his music lines up.

00:06:17.700 And here's the big thing, Mr. Beck.

00:06:20.440 And I'm a huge fan, a lifelong Republican.

00:06:22.680 Been listening to you for years since you came on the air in 2013.

00:06:27.580 And I am a huge supporter of yours.

00:06:31.460 But the problem with Beto is people think he's Hispanic because people are calling him Beto.

00:06:38.180 Here's the back story.

00:06:39.360 I have not told anyone this, but I'm going to tell you because I'm a lifelong fan.

00:06:43.880 Right.

00:06:44.260 Since, what was it, 2016?

00:06:45.860 No, 2000.

00:06:47.740 Beto's nickname came not from his El Paso upbringing.

00:06:55.060 The nickname came from a country club servant.

00:06:57.260 And this country club servant could not say Robert because he was one of these people from wherever those regions are down there below that border fence that we need.

00:07:07.220 And I'm with you, by the way.

00:07:08.480 We really need that.

00:07:09.120 But when he was called Beto, Bob Frank O'Rourke immediately had the worker fired.

00:07:17.760 He had him deported.

00:07:19.700 He had his family dog executed.

00:07:23.540 These are the sorts of things that Beto will do for this country.

00:07:25.980 I mean, Robert will do for this country.

00:07:27.580 Why did he go with Beto for so long?

00:07:29.840 Oh, well, that was just a media, I mean, fake news.

00:07:32.840 Am I right?

00:07:33.500 Am I right?

00:07:34.420 And he's going to be sporting not the Green New Deal, but the White New Deal. 0.82

00:07:39.400 So I know your hood-wearing neanderthals in your audience are absolutely going to love them. 0.98

00:07:43.520 Thanks so much for having me on.

00:07:44.980 I appreciate it.

00:07:46.240 Thank you.

00:07:49.400 The best of the Glenn Beck Program.

00:07:51.260 You know, I want to go to Rashida Tlaib, blaming racist idiots for criticizing her Holocaust remarks she was on with Seth Meyers.

00:08:17.140 Listen to this.

00:08:17.920 Some have criticized the use of a calming feeling.

00:08:20.360 You have said that it was taken out of context.

00:08:22.620 I want to give you a chance to provide some context.

00:08:24.440 Yeah, and, you know, for folks that don't know, I mean, my grandmother, my living grandmother, my mom's mom, lives in the West Bank and occupy territories in Palestine.

00:08:32.740 And what's incredibly, you know, the tragedy of the Holocaust, I mean, the reason why Israel was created was to create a safe haven for Jews around the world.

00:08:40.600 And there is something, like, in many ways, beautiful about that my ancestors, many had died or had to give up their livelihood, their human dignity,

00:08:49.680 to provide a safe haven for Jews in our world.

00:08:52.680 And that is something I wanted to recognize and kind of honor in some sort of way.

00:08:57.160 But I also think it's important because I want Palestinian people also to find some sort of, you know, light in this kind of what's happening.

00:09:04.300 But also, you know, in the end, I said, I want all of us to feel safe.

00:09:09.440 All of us deserve human dignity, no matter our backgrounds, no matter our ethnicity, no matter even our political opinions.

00:09:15.800 We all deserve that kind of equality and justice.

00:09:18.780 And, you know, for me, I wanted to uplift that and bring that to light.

00:09:22.380 And it was unfortunate.

00:09:23.640 You know, I got a text message from a friend who's like, hey, next time, you know, really clarify.

00:09:28.100 Maybe talk like a fourth grader because maybe the racist idiots would understand you better.

00:09:32.280 So it's just, you know, it's everyone else's fault again.

00:09:40.280 This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

00:09:52.440 I have got to speak my mind on this as Stu did yesterday.

00:09:57.700 This is grave injustice as I see this.

00:10:01.000 We wanted to get Lindsay Glass's attorney, Scott Palmer, on to see if he could explain what the heck is happening with with Lindsay Glass and why she's possibly going to go to jail for a year for something that the even the police say you saved lives. 0.95

00:10:23.260 Welcome to the program, Scott Palmer.

00:10:25.960 Thank you.

00:10:27.420 Thanks to be on.

00:10:28.300 Thank you.

00:10:28.720 So can you can you tell me the story?

00:10:31.400 What are we missing in this story?

00:10:33.260 Why are they pursuing this?

00:10:35.020 I have no idea.

00:10:36.420 Some cases should be prosecuted and some are just plain should never be.

00:10:40.720 The idea that this case should be the legacy of this horrible tragedy.

00:10:45.520 This is what we're talking about now rather than the mental health and the domestic abuse and the fact that this is a premeditated, heinous crime that was going to happen regardless of where this man was drinking or not drinking.

00:10:59.460 It just is an insult to the actual memories of the seven people that were killed.

00:11:04.280 A couple of things that I wanted to make sure that we're clear on.

00:11:07.660 She did not know he was drunk.

00:11:09.880 She did.

00:11:10.620 She served him alcohol, as you said, over a four hour period of time.

00:11:14.540 But the idea that she understood he was intoxicated is that that's the fact question.

00:11:19.540 That's the big issue.

00:11:20.360 That's something we're going to fight.

00:11:21.640 She did understand and appreciate he was acting strangely.

00:11:25.200 Right.

00:11:25.640 And she knew him in some way or another.

00:11:29.040 He was a regular there.

00:11:30.160 But she served two hard liquor drinks and two beers over a four hour period. 0.99

00:11:38.940 I mean, your body, your body will, will, uh, uh, spend a drink an hour is what your body works through, right?

00:11:47.340 Your body will work through that.

00:11:48.960 How is she even responsible at all?

00:11:52.200 Well, she, she's not.

00:11:54.140 And that's why, I mean, the law is, and I heard your intro in the dram shop area where you serve, over serve somebody and they get in a wreck, an accident.

00:12:02.680 Okay.

00:12:03.020 And then there's, there's liability under the civil law, but, and, and, and the bar was sued by the lawyers that represented the, uh, the families.

00:12:11.440 And I do those types of cases as well.

00:12:13.300 And I got to be honest with you, if they came to me with the theory that the bar is responsible for the death of these people,

00:12:19.720 when you've got a massive proximate cause issue, big, I mean, you got an intentional act that was planned, premeditated for probably weeks.

00:12:29.080 He had a, an armory in his, in his apartment of thousands and thousands of rounds and guns.

00:12:34.360 And he had been plotting this apparently for a while, but to put liability on the bar or the bartender for what he did is just, I can see why you're angry and why you're doing the story.

00:12:45.940 And that's why the, the world has been attracted to the story.

00:12:49.380 It doesn't make any sense to prosecute her.

00:12:52.400 There is no justice here.

00:12:54.020 There's no justice being done on this.

00:12:57.000 No, I completely agree with you.

00:12:58.660 Is it all true that she left the bar?

00:13:02.500 First, she started to stop him right before leaving, before he left, she tried to stop him.

00:13:07.280 They, well, they had a conversation, they went outside and then she's like, what's going on?

00:13:10.720 You're not acting, you're acting strange.

00:13:12.500 And he was very veiled in what he was saying.

00:13:15.400 And she was asking, is this about Meredith, which is his ex, soon to be ex-wife.

00:13:20.060 And he's not, it has nothing to do with her.

00:13:22.200 And so he lied.

00:13:23.440 And apparently he's a master manipulator, according to his ex-mother-in-law.

00:13:27.220 And he's a very adept drunk, which means he is able to mask his intoxication and people into serving him, which is exactly what happened here.

00:13:35.920 So she just got a bad vibe from him and he ends up believing.

00:13:40.800 And she just did not feel right.

00:13:44.140 So she literally leaves the bar. 1.00

00:13:45.820 Who leaves their work?

00:13:47.680 Nobody.

00:13:48.840 I think, honestly, Scott, I think Lindsay is a hero.

00:13:52.800 Yeah.

00:13:53.240 I really do.

00:13:55.520 She did something extraordinary.

00:13:57.580 She did.

00:13:57.980 And she left the bar. 0.85

00:13:59.980 And I understand that the house that he went to was his ex-wife's house.

00:14:04.180 And she had moved on.

00:14:06.620 And Lindsay thought that this Spencer had moved on, too.

00:14:09.960 They had conversations.

00:14:10.800 They were friendly.

00:14:11.940 They weren't best friends.

00:14:12.960 But Lindsay was supposed to be at the bar, I mean, at the house that night.

00:14:15.940 There was a cowboy.

00:14:16.800 I think they were playing the Falcons.

00:14:18.220 It was the first game of the year in 17.

00:14:20.120 But she was working.

00:14:22.820 She had a bar full of people, eight to ten people with the video. 0.76

00:14:26.060 I haven't seen the video yet.

00:14:27.820 And she's paying attention to a lot of folks, including him, but not enough meaningful time

00:14:32.620 to observe him, his walk.

00:14:35.760 And that's where a lot of the probable cause of that video is talking about how he was walking

00:14:40.860 and his mannerisms.

00:14:42.180 How he's a bartender on a sports night.

00:14:47.200 Good heavens.

00:14:48.760 This is ridiculous.

00:14:50.620 And she does call her bar manager.

00:14:53.080 And then they called the owner.

00:14:54.640 And, you know, there were some text messages that they quoted saying that, you know, she

00:14:58.460 thought he was crazy or something.

00:15:00.320 And maybe he was crazy.

00:15:01.420 He was about to commit mass murder that nobody knew.

00:15:04.020 But she leaves the bar, literally leaves the bar, and has a customer, man, and, like,

00:15:09.820 not serve anybody.

00:15:10.600 He's like, just hold the fort.

00:15:11.520 I've got to go.

00:15:13.400 Extraordinary move on her part.

00:15:15.360 Drives down with her co, I guess, bartender, who wasn't working that night, came in off

00:15:20.560 the clock.

00:15:21.580 And she goes to the home of Meredith, and she sees this vehicle, Spencer's vehicle, behind,

00:15:28.020 like, in the alleyway.

00:15:28.740 We have alleyways in Texas.

00:15:30.840 And she freaks out and calls 911 immediately, just has this premonition that something bad

00:15:36.200 is happening.

00:15:36.500 Why is he here?

00:15:37.280 He's not supposed to be here.

00:15:38.680 What's going on?

00:15:39.560 And she links up his bizarre behavior, calls 911, and they tell her to leave, get out of

00:15:45.540 the way.

00:15:46.300 And then eight minutes later, seven people are dead.

00:15:48.920 But if she hadn't called 911, the SWAT team had not been able to be out there.

00:15:52.900 When they did, more people had been dead.

00:15:54.820 And if I'm not mistaken, Scott, the other worker that she called initially wound up flagging

00:16:01.080 down an officer as well in this process.

00:16:03.600 So they tried to contact police at least twice during this situation.

00:16:07.140 That's that's that's new information.

00:16:09.460 I have not heard that one, but that doesn't make it certainly makes sense to reason that

00:16:13.840 they were they were both in the moment and they were looking for help.

00:16:17.620 They're just fearing the worst, not knowing what he was going to do.

00:16:20.800 Didn't even know what.

00:16:22.020 Who is the prosecuting attorney?

00:16:24.780 What is he thinking?

00:16:26.700 What was she supposed to do?

00:16:28.620 She did more than anyone else would have done.

00:16:32.700 So here's the rub on this.

00:16:34.460 The Plano Police Department.

00:16:36.740 Not T.A.B.C.

00:16:38.160 From what I understand, the Plano Police Department issued this warrant.

00:16:41.640 And when they typed up an affidavit, three pages, and went to a municipal court judge who

00:16:46.920 has power to issue a warrant.

00:16:48.700 And they did this, I believe, unbeknownst and without conferring with the Collin County

00:16:54.700 district attorney's office.

00:16:56.360 How's that happen?

00:16:57.220 Not nor, well, and you have to understand, there was an officer involved shooting.

00:17:01.700 They shot and killed Spencer Hyatt shortly after he murdered these people.

00:17:06.380 So there, whenever you have an officer involved shooting, there isn't usually a grand jury

00:17:10.800 is convened and then there's an inquiry.

00:17:12.740 And of course, the officer has to go to grand jury and be to be no billed.

00:17:15.660 And that's what happened.

00:17:16.540 So there was a whole involved, a huge involved investigation from the Plano Police Department.

00:17:21.500 Maybe the Texas Rangers were involved.

00:17:23.460 And so all of that happened, you know, in 17 and 18.

00:17:25.820 So all of this, all the evidence, everything that was presented to the grand jury was examined

00:17:31.800 by multiple investigators.

00:17:33.440 And Lindsay was cooperative during this entire time.

00:17:36.140 Did the Plano Police not commend her that night and say, if it wasn't for you, there would

00:17:45.200 have been more dead?

00:17:46.740 That's my understanding, that they commended her, they continued to commend her and understood

00:17:53.640 that she was having massive PTSD.

00:17:56.160 I believe they referred her to a therapist that is part of a government grant that is,

00:18:01.300 you know, that is touches and concerns the, you know, these victims of family violence

00:18:06.800 and things of that nature.

00:18:07.680 So she's been in therapy.

00:18:08.960 They know this.

00:18:09.780 They're aware of everything.

00:18:11.020 And they do this on April 8th, the very day that the civil lawsuit was dismissed voluntarily

00:18:17.940 by the plan of attorneys.

00:18:19.160 Last, last, last question for you, because I know you've got to run.

00:18:23.020 Um, you, in reading your history, um, you, you have a lot of really positive results for

00:18:31.660 your clients.

00:18:32.800 Um, but you are also known as a, uh, uh, you know, entering into plea negotiations.

00:18:39.500 You're not going to plead this.

00:18:40.960 Are you?

00:18:42.620 Uh, I, I, I plan on never having this case darken the courthouse door.

00:18:46.880 This case has not been filed.

00:18:48.160 So I, I mean, there are, I do it.

00:18:49.860 I'm a trial lawyer.

00:18:50.640 I go to trial when, when necessary, of course, we plea cases when, when it's the right thing

00:18:55.500 to do.

00:18:56.000 And correct.

00:18:56.360 I understand that.

00:18:57.480 So no, this, this is, if this gets filed, which I'm, we are working with the DA's office

00:19:02.260 to, to encourage them not to file this case and not accept the case from the Plano police

00:19:06.760 department.

00:19:07.500 That's the first step.

00:19:08.420 If it does get accepted, which I'll be surprised if they do accept it after the uproar, uh, that's

00:19:13.620 been, and, and you're, you're, you're the prevailing attitude across this country

00:19:17.820 in the world.

00:19:18.520 I've getting emails from all over the world and support of her, uh, is don't prosecute

00:19:23.180 her.

00:19:23.600 So hopefully the Collin County district attorney's office is listening and I'm going to, my job

00:19:27.780 and my associate's job is to, to encourage them to not take the case.

00:19:31.100 If the case is taken, we will go to trial.

00:19:32.920 Scott, I tell you, Stu and I take this one, um, personally, we are, we moved to Texas because

00:19:40.180 there is common sense.

00:19:41.740 There is no common sense in prosecuting this, this woman. 0.99

00:19:45.860 And she is, she should be viewed, I think as a hero.

00:19:50.640 Um, and if you will keep us up to date, anything we can do to help, we will, this is wrong.

00:19:56.760 This is absolutely wrong.

00:19:59.100 I agree with you a hundred percent.

00:20:00.600 We will keep you up to date and hopefully give you some good news that the case has been

00:20:03.380 refused.

00:20:04.340 Um, we'll let you know.

00:20:05.640 Great.

00:20:06.020 Thank you very much, Scott.

00:20:06.840 This is the best of the Glenn Beck program.

00:20:14.560 Hey, it's Glenn.

00:20:15.600 And if you like what you hear on the program, you should check out Pat Gray Unleashed.

00:20:19.960 His podcast is available wherever you download your favorite podcast.

00:20:23.740 There is a, there's a book out new book called Alchemy, the dark art and curious science of

00:20:30.980 creating magic in brands, business, and life.

00:20:34.600 Uh, this has to me that I'm going on vacation in a couple of days.

00:20:40.280 This is a book I'm going to be reading on vacation.

00:20:43.740 Um, because it talks about how we are missing how people are feeling.

00:20:52.540 And I mean, how do you get somebody to drink Red Bull when it's horrible?

00:20:59.180 I mean, it's horrible.

00:21:00.460 I've had one and Stu gave it to me and it made me feel like crap, but it, but it doesn't taste

00:21:06.780 good.

00:21:07.200 It doesn't taste good.

00:21:08.620 It's awful.

00:21:09.260 It's almost the charm of it in some weird way.

00:21:11.660 How?

00:21:12.220 I don't know.

00:21:12.880 How?

00:21:13.240 Because there's other competitors like the new monster rain stuff is really good.

00:21:17.880 It tastes delicious.

00:21:18.580 So, uh, Rory Sutherland is, um, uh, a, an ad man.

00:21:24.180 Uh, he writes the spectators, uh, wiki man column.

00:21:27.400 He also presents for the BBC radio four, uh, in, uh, in England.

00:21:32.200 His Ted talks have, you know, like 7 million views and he is the author of alchemy and, uh,

00:21:39.500 we welcome him to the program.

00:21:41.100 Hi, Rory.

00:21:41.960 How are you?

00:21:43.200 Very good to be on.

00:21:44.100 Thank you very much.

00:21:45.000 You bet.

00:21:45.360 Um, I'm fascinated, um, by what you've, what you've found and where we're headed.

00:21:52.760 Give me some of the, give me some of the highlights, uh, here.

00:21:56.520 First, let's start with Red Bull.

00:21:58.720 How do you get people to drink Red Bull when it tastes like garbage?

00:22:03.960 Well, this is a strange thing.

00:22:05.420 You see, if you sat down in a, in a, in a room with a lot of completely rational people

00:22:09.260 and you said, we want to drink to compete with Coca-Cola.

00:22:11.780 The first thing they'd say is, okay, your new drink has to taste nicer than Coke.

00:22:16.900 Uh, it's got to cost less than Coke and it should come in a really big can.

00:22:20.480 So people get great value for money.

00:22:22.640 And yet weirdly, the most successful competitor for Coke in financial terms has probably been

00:22:28.000 this very expensive drink in a tiny can that tastes kind of horrible.

00:22:31.800 Not kind of.

00:22:33.640 I drink it myself.

00:22:34.620 I mean, I want to say this quite clearly.

00:22:36.080 I really quite enjoy it.

00:22:37.820 And the reason is, of course, that I think everything in human perception is affected not

00:22:42.260 just by reality, but by context.

00:22:44.440 And so if your promise is that your drink has kind of medicinal or psychoactive powers,

00:22:51.460 the fact that it tastes weird isn't a disadvantage.

00:22:54.760 It's actually a kind of proof point.

00:22:57.620 An interesting case, by the way, is that diet Coke, as distinct from Coke Zero,

00:23:02.520 diet Coke is deliberately made to taste a little bit more bitter than ordinary Coke,

00:23:07.400 simply because if there isn't a small mental trade-off, we don't believe it's a diet drink.

00:23:12.140 So were these things planned?

00:23:17.420 For instance, did the people at Red Bull, did they instinctively know this or scientifically know this,

00:23:28.240 that they had to make it taste like dog crap?

00:23:31.880 Interesting.

00:23:32.700 I think an awful lot of successes in capitalism are partly accidental.

00:23:38.080 Right.

00:23:38.940 So, you know, I've always asked the question,

00:23:41.200 you probably know that candy is put next to the till in shops because the argument is that children pester their parents to buy.

00:23:50.100 My hunch is that originally this didn't happen to plan.

00:23:54.700 All that happened is people noticed that if you had candy next to the till, you sold more candy.

00:23:59.340 And it's a kind of evolutionary process in capitalism, I think, which is much more of free market capitalism than we think,

00:24:07.780 is a process of discovering what it is people want.

00:24:10.900 We ourselves don't fully know.

00:24:13.460 We don't have introspective access to all of our brains and all of our preferences.

00:24:18.540 And so a very large part, I think, of consumer capitalism is a process of experimentation and selection, a kind of Darwinian thing.

00:24:26.900 And I think, I mean, one example I find fascinating is that Google, now let's be absolutely honest here, Google is a very good search engine.

00:24:35.020 I'm not claiming that it's anything other than that.

00:24:37.380 Right.

00:24:38.380 It, however, did a very clever psychological trick in the sense that at the time everybody else was trying to be a portal.

00:24:44.360 They put sports scores, they put weather information, they put breaking news, and Google just had a search bar and two buttons.

00:24:51.540 Now, actually, psychologically, that's very astute, because there's a known thing in psychology called the jack-of-all-trades heuristic,

00:25:00.860 which is that we tend to think that something that only does one thing is going to be better at it than something that does multiple things.

00:25:07.540 You know, I've often thought, Rory, that that page also lends Google credibility because you're not associating it with anything other than information that you're looking for.

00:25:21.060 So, I never see an ad for something that I like or don't like.

00:25:25.380 I never see a news story that I like or don't like.

00:25:28.740 It seems neutral, even though it's not.

00:25:32.600 No, I agree with you.

00:25:33.920 I think the very simplicity of the thing is psychologically brilliant.

00:25:37.420 However, I think the reason for its simplicity isn't intentional.

00:25:42.640 It was simply that Larry Page at the time wasn't very good at coding HTML, and it was kind of the best he could do.

00:25:48.880 So, quite often, I think what happens, Dyson is an interesting case in terms of the vacuum cleaner.

00:25:56.880 I think there that in terms of what makes a successful innovation, we probably pay too much credit to technology and too little to psychology.

00:26:06.820 In the case of Dyson, I think the magic comes from the fact that the thing is transparent, and you can actually see the dirt that you're removing from your floor.

00:26:14.460 In the case of Uber, I think the brilliant psychological insight is simply that waiting for a cab, waiting for a taxi, is inordinately less frustrating if you can see where it is.

00:26:26.120 And, you know, I had no idea that this came from a James Bond film or somebody watching it.

00:26:32.120 Can you explain the story of how this came about?

00:26:33.900 No, so one of the co-founders of Uber, who I think was Canadian, one afternoon was watching Goldfinger.

00:26:41.380 And in Goldfinger, if you remember it, there's this fascinating moment where Bond, I think, is tracking him through the Swiss Alps.

00:26:50.960 Goldfinger is in a Rolls-Royce, which is made of gold, in fact, which is how he's smuggling gold out of the country.

00:26:56.300 And Bond has to track him, and there's a little map, a moving map, in the face here of his Aston Martin DB6.

00:27:05.420 And on the map is a dot, which enables him to follow Goldfinger's car while remaining out of sight.

00:27:11.500 And the fascinating thing there is that this Canadian guy watching this, something like 10 years ago, looked at that and said,

00:27:18.100 that's how it should work when you order a taxi.

00:27:20.240 Wow, that's brilliant. A multi-billion dollar decision there.

00:27:24.680 Absolutely.

00:27:26.000 You make the case that we don't value things.

00:27:30.320 We are a society of things.

00:27:32.780 And you say, we don't value things.

00:27:35.120 We value their meaning.

00:27:38.560 Yes, I think that's absolutely true, which is that economics is a rather barren, dismal discipline,

00:27:46.300 because it tries to treat everything as if it's a commodity.

00:27:49.300 It assumes we know exactly what we want, how much value we attach to it.

00:27:54.060 It assumes that we're making decisions in a world of complete certainty.

00:27:58.320 Now, in truth, in between what something is and how we perceive it, there is a whole lot of noise going on.

00:28:08.700 There's the context in which we perceive it.

00:28:11.060 Something can seem expensive or cheap, by the way, entirely dependent on what you compare it to.

00:28:16.800 There's a famous example that Rolls-Royce and Maserati stopped exhibiting their cars so heavily at car shows,

00:28:24.700 because a $400,000 car looks insanely expensive at a car show.

00:28:29.480 If you exhibit those cars at yachts and aircraft shows, everything changes.

00:28:34.080 If you've been looking at Learjets all afternoon, a $400,000 car is effectively an impulse buy.

00:28:40.580 It's the candy.

00:28:42.440 It's the candy of the cash register.

00:28:44.860 On your way out, you say, I'll have a couple of those while I'm here.

00:28:48.360 Yeah.

00:28:48.540 And so, I also cite Nespresso as an example of this.

00:28:53.740 It's quite an expensive coffee if you compare it to ground coffee.

00:28:57.180 It's a cheap coffee if you compare it to Starbucks.

00:28:59.520 So, Rory, I was against Donald Trump during the election, and I'm a conservative in radio here and television in America.

00:29:13.780 But I was against him, and I could not understand how my audience was flocking to him until after the election,

00:29:23.500 and I started asking the question that I would have asked any of my friends who were acting, you know, erratically and saying,

00:29:33.460 I believe in this, but then I'm going to go vote for this.

00:29:37.260 And I started asking the question, what's happening in your life?

00:29:43.820 Then I began to understand how people felt.

00:29:48.500 And I know facts don't care about feelings, but feelings, especially now in politics, are playing the critical role.

00:29:58.720 It's how, because people on both sides, and I think all over Europe and in England with Brexit, there are those people in Brexit that are racist,

00:30:10.260 but there are also those who feel like they've been left behind, not listened to, they're losing their culture,

00:30:18.420 and they don't agree with what's going on, but nobody's listening to them.

00:30:24.460 And I don't care what side you're on, but that is a big motivator, I think, all around the world right now,

00:30:32.480 are these people who feel nobody's listening to me.

00:30:35.100 I don't matter.

00:30:36.440 And I think, actually, that feeling of detachment, what you might call the technocratic elites, to use the standard term,

00:30:45.880 they are to blame for that happening.

00:30:48.080 Yes, yes.

00:30:49.080 And it's partly, the problem lies not necessarily in them being technocratic or in being an elite.

00:30:55.040 It's that they're all technocratic in the same way.

00:30:58.380 And they're people who are very similar in terms of their education, quite often similar in terms of their background.

00:31:04.240 And their capacity to understand someone whose life experience is different from their own seems to me extraordinarily bad.

00:31:12.800 I would add to that, I think, the fact that Trump is, in many ways, a persuasive genius.

00:31:17.100 I think he's an instinctive, you might expect this in the real estate industry, but he's an instinctive salesman of a remarkable kind.

00:31:25.300 If you take something like, we're going to build a wall, that's concretization.

00:31:30.120 In other words, what you say is you actually take what you're aiming for and you literally make it concrete, in this case.

00:31:38.260 Now, if Hillary wanted to actually respond to people's concerns over immigration, she'd say something like, 0.56

00:31:44.240 we're going to hold constructive tripartite discussions with our Mexican and Canadian allies.

00:31:49.620 Not the same thing.

00:31:51.800 And so his ability, I think, to connect, ironically for someone who's a billionaire with a private jet,

00:31:58.160 his ability to connect with a far wider branch of people than Hillary could, I think he's remarkable and fascinating.

00:32:05.500 And I'm not entirely in favor of him either, although I'm probably more forgiving than most Europeans are. 0.86

00:32:12.160 Yeah.

00:32:12.420 I also do welcome the fact that he's from a slightly different mental mold, at least,

00:32:17.440 because I do think the political cast essentially, certainly on a large number of sort of both moral and economic questions,

00:32:25.040 they've come to all think the same way.

00:32:26.740 And I think you're exactly right.

00:32:29.700 And I have begun to understand him and even appreciate some of the things that he does.

00:32:35.960 I would love to have you back, Rory.

00:32:38.380 Do you ever come to the United States?

00:32:40.740 Quite frequently, as often as I can.

00:32:42.620 I would love to sit down and talk to you because I'm very concerned.

00:32:46.080 I'm, I guess, an anti-fan in some ways of Edward Bernays.

00:32:53.800 And we are entering a time now of these corporations.

00:33:00.520 You know, for instance, Amazon, they are so driven on data.

00:33:04.980 They say that when they can predict us at 95 percent,

00:33:07.820 they're going to stop being really a catalog online and more of just a delivery service.

00:33:15.740 They're just going to be delivering stuff to us before we even order it.

00:33:20.820 You look at.

00:33:21.220 It always becomes on approval that Amazon will preemptively send us things.

00:33:25.600 Correct.

00:33:25.840 And on occasion, we'll send it back.

00:33:27.580 So there's, we're entering this time between Facebook, Google, Amazon,

00:33:32.400 where I'm not sure that who's leading who.

00:33:38.140 Advertising is going to change dramatically.

00:33:42.280 And it concerns me.

00:33:43.740 And I'd love to have a conversation with you.

00:33:45.460 Would you, would you come back?

00:33:46.740 I also think there's real scope for concern because what we tend to think of as impartial,

00:33:51.840 such as choosing what to buy online or, for example, an algorithm online,

00:33:58.180 because it's numerical and digital, we tend to see it as being impartial and objective.

00:34:03.160 Actually, all those things carry with them the prejudices of the people who,

00:34:07.400 the unconscious prejudices in many cases, of the people who design them.

00:34:11.000 Yes.

00:34:11.680 We find it quite amusing in the UK because if you take Google Navigation,

00:34:16.840 it gives you an option of travelling somewhere by public transport,

00:34:20.760 or you can make the same journey by car.

00:34:23.460 Now, in Europe, if you live just outside London,

00:34:25.860 the logical way to get to central London is you drive to a nearby railway station

00:34:29.460 and then take the train into London.

00:34:31.740 Google can't understand this because it's too Californian to understand the concept of driving somewhere

00:34:37.560 and then catching a train.

00:34:39.480 So in lots and lots of cases, the way in which things are designed carry with them

00:34:43.980 a lot of unconscious assumptions about what a good decision is.

00:34:48.740 And it may not be true.

00:34:50.540 Rory, I've got to let you go, but I really thank you,

00:34:54.780 and I hope that we can spend some more time together

00:34:56.860 because I think you are brilliant and on the cutting edge of the future

00:35:03.280 and the consequences and what's happening right now.

00:35:07.280 Rory Sutherland, and the name of the book is Alchemy.

00:35:13.780 This is the best of a Glenn Beck program.

00:35:18.740 Hello, Doctor.

00:35:24.920 How are you?

00:35:25.860 Well, I'm pretty good.

00:35:26.940 I'm a little offended that you've never responded back to me.

00:35:30.920 How are you, Doctor?

00:35:32.440 How are you, Doctor?

00:35:33.900 How are you, Doctor?

00:35:35.700 Thank you very much.

00:35:36.540 Gad, we just had Rory Sutherland on. 0.99

00:35:39.040 Do you know who he is?

00:35:40.220 I do.

00:35:41.100 What do you think of him?

00:35:43.020 I mean, I don't know much of his work.

00:35:45.040 I know of some friends who speak very highly of him.

00:35:48.080 I think we follow each other on social media, but I couldn't say more than that, to be honest with you.

00:35:52.980 Okay.

00:35:53.240 He's got a new book out called Alchemy, and we were kind of talking about the way that feelings are playing such a role now in marketing.

00:36:07.020 And, you know, how I didn't understand how people were voting for Donald Trump until I said, what's happening in your life?

00:36:16.240 And then I realized why people were so strongly behind him.

00:36:25.300 They felt that they weren't being heard.

00:36:28.000 Nobody was listening.

00:36:29.860 The political ruling class was doing the same thing over and over. 0.96

00:36:34.840 They'll tell you one thing, do another.

00:36:36.960 He was cut from a different cloth.

00:36:39.260 They knew that he was piggish, but they just wanted somebody that would break up this system, and they thought he could do it, and he was a wise enough businessman that he wouldn't destroy the country. 0.95

00:36:56.960 That was eye-opening to me.

00:36:59.340 I mean, I think you're right on that, of course, feelings matter when it comes to marketing products, marketing politicians.

00:37:07.460 I think the danger is when we – people think that feelings and thinking are, if you like, antithetical to one another.

00:37:15.020 And that's not true.

00:37:15.720 We're both a thinking animal and a feeling animal.

00:37:17.980 Yes.

00:37:18.440 What matters is that you apply the correct system in the proper – you know, for the proper decision.

00:37:25.840 So, for example, if I am selling perfumes, then I need to trigger your hedonic emotional system.

00:37:33.340 I mean, I don't sell you a perfume by telling you, here's what Harvard physiologists think of this chemical compound.

00:37:39.640 Right.

00:37:40.240 I need to sell you fantasy, so I show you a gorgeous girl on a horse with her hair flowing. 1.00

00:37:45.340 On the other hand, if I'm trying to sell you mutual funds, then I need to engage your cognitive system.

00:37:49.900 So it's not so much that we are either feelers or thinkers, it's that we need to apply the right system in the right condition.

00:37:56.800 But wait a minute.

00:37:57.780 If you're selling me mutual funds, I would still contend – because I think this is why conservatives lose the battle – I contend that the fastest way to a person's brain is through their heart.

00:38:10.880 And so you paint a picture of what people want to be, what they want to do, what they want their life to be like, and then show them the facts that back up, this is how we do it.

00:38:25.800 Fair enough.

00:38:26.580 I mean, all that you're saying is that you could never either have a strictly cognitive appeal, marketing appeal, or a strictly affective appeal.

00:38:34.360 And I certainly would concede that point.

00:38:36.060 And I think that's true, I mean, all the way to brain surgery.

00:38:38.920 I mean, my daughter is – we're looking at having brain surgery for her, and she's been having testing, you know, like crazy over the last year.

00:38:48.740 And while I want a doctor to be able to explain it and really be precise on exactly what he's going to do,

00:38:59.340 and I need the facts on exactly what's happening, I also want to feel from him that he is compassionate and understands this is my daughter.

00:39:12.840 Absolutely, absolutely.

00:39:14.800 But speaking of physicians, now in Quebec, they are thinking of changing the medical school curriculum to no longer include grading,

00:39:25.980 because too many of the students are getting high stress.

00:39:30.500 So I really want a physician who is handling life or death decisions to be sufficiently weak that they can't handle an A or a B grade.

00:39:42.080 I mean, imagine how much you're infantilizing people when even physicians now or physicians-to-be can no longer handle the indignity of being graded.

00:39:51.460 It's insane.

00:39:51.880 I saw a report about medical school where people said that there were too many white people and too many men in it or something.

00:40:04.520 I can't remember.

00:40:05.680 And they said, we have to change that.

00:40:07.260 And I'm like, no, let's just get the qualified people.

00:40:11.300 I don't care what color they are.

00:40:13.700 I want the most qualified person to be performing surgery.

00:40:17.900 So this is what I call, by the way, so there's this whole movement of diversity, inclusion, and equity.

00:40:25.120 So I've taken the three letters and created the acronym DIE.

00:40:29.300 It's the DIE religion, right? 1.00

00:40:31.960 Shared professorships are now assigned as a function of whether you adhere to the DIE theology or not.

00:40:38.780 I mean, imagine, right, the highest level of excellence in academia is no longer determined by your accomplishments.

00:40:46.020 It's determined by your sexual orientation, whether you ovulate or not, your skin color.

00:40:51.800 It's absolutely insane.

00:40:53.460 And I truly wonder when it is that most academics are going to have the testicular fortitude to wake up and start speaking out against this.

00:41:01.700 Well, I will tell you, I think you guys in Canada are way ahead of us.

00:41:06.040 I mean, I don't, I don't, honestly, I don't know what it is in Canada.

00:41:09.700 Maybe it's because you guys have to fight every step of the way.

00:41:12.940 And we have this, you know, strange belief that our Constitution will protect us and our Bill of Rights.

00:41:19.420 But it's not going to protect us because we're not standing up for it.

00:41:22.700 But Canada, the academics in Canada seem to be being very vocal.

00:41:30.740 Well, certainly the few Canadian academics who are at the forefront of it, yes, you're right.

00:41:36.240 But what I would love to see is the silent majority, right? 0.87

00:41:39.580 I mean, as I've often recounted, I get innumerable emails from fellow professors, not just Canadians, from all over the world saying,

00:41:48.140 hey, I support you, I really support you, thank you for being, you know, an academic hero.

00:41:51.940 But please, please don't share publicly that I support you.

00:41:55.180 Well, therein lies the problem, right?

00:41:56.920 I know.

00:41:57.220 I mean, if you can't even have the courage to simply say that you support the guy who's fighting for your rights,

00:42:04.760 then we really have sunk into an abyss of cowardice that's difficult to come out of.

00:42:08.800 I just gave a speech last night to a Jewish and Christian organization.

00:42:13.260 It was the anniversary of the establishment of Israel yesterday.

00:42:16.740 And little did I know, a woman who survived the Holocaust was in the audience,

00:42:25.000 and I was talking about how, you know, how these things happen.

00:42:30.740 And they don't come as monsters.

00:42:34.520 They come first, you know, kind of wrapped in goodness and justice and everything else.

00:42:40.980 And they start with political correctness, and they train you not to feel comfortable to speak out

00:42:49.520 until you are cowering behind your curtains in your front room, and you know if I open up those curtains, they'll kill me.

00:42:56.640 If you don't speak out when it's early, you're not going to have the fortitude to do anything later.

00:43:06.240 And we're in this point, we're at this flex point now where it's about to go really dark, I think.

00:43:13.760 And if we don't start standing up now, I don't think we're going to make it.

00:43:18.520 The Niemöller poem becomes true.

00:43:21.280 I completely agree with you.

00:43:23.420 Just in preparation of our chat, since I thought that we might be talking about anti-Semitism,

00:43:28.600 I pulled out some stats, which I discuss in my forthcoming book.

00:43:31.960 So this is from a Pew Research Center survey.

00:43:35.840 You know, it's an unbiased organization, nonpartisan.

00:43:39.120 They do these, you know, very exhaustive global surveys.

00:43:42.200 Opinion of Jews in select countries.

00:43:45.940 Here are the stats for unfavorable opinions of Jews.

00:43:50.720 I'll just list four or five countries.

00:43:52.980 You have some stats from around the world.

00:43:55.800 Yeah, I'll just give you two quick stats.

00:43:57.920 So one is from Pew Research Center.

00:44:00.360 Here are the percentages of people polled in Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and the Palestinian territory.

00:44:08.840 So the neighbors of Israel.

00:44:11.020 In terms of their unfavorability scores towards the Jews.

00:44:14.800 Ninety-five percent, ninety-seven percent, ninety-eight percent, and ninety-seven percent.

00:44:20.040 I mean, let's not sink in.

00:44:21.440 Ninety-eight percent of people polled in my home country of Lebanon hate the Jews.

00:44:28.540 What a surprise that we had to leave Lebanon in 1975.

00:44:31.280 So when you have somebody like Rashida Tlaib come out and say that her grandmother lost her land and many Palestinians lost their lives so the Jews could have a homeland.

00:44:49.840 How do you process that?

00:44:54.440 This is what I call, I don't know if we discussed this last time, but we chatted when I came down to Dallas.

00:45:00.140 This is what I call the collective Munchausen syndrome, right?

00:45:02.820 It's where you gain power by always feigning injury, right?

00:45:08.200 Or in this case, you need to be the victim, right?

00:45:11.420 So she needs to always view the Palestinians as the victims. 0.99

00:45:16.420 And so she constructs a story now where she still remains or her ancestors remain the victims in the grand narrative.

00:45:24.360 And it's delusional.

00:45:26.340 It is absolutely not anywhere close to actual history and delusional.

00:45:34.720 Well, and I'll give you a personal anecdote.

00:45:37.620 So we were obviously forced to leave Lebanon at the start of the 1975 Lebanese Civil War.

00:45:45.160 After we left, my parents kept returning to Lebanon until 1980 when they were kidnapped by Fatah, a Palestinian terror group.

00:45:55.180 And they found out that our own home in Lebanon has now been taken over by Palestinian refugees. 0.99

00:46:01.780 I don't construct today a narrative that, you know, adheres to my, you know, political views.

00:46:09.100 I don't hold any ill will towards all Palestinians because this happened.

00:46:13.300 Just be truthful.

00:46:14.540 But she's incapable of being truthful because she always has to create the narrative of the Palestinians are the victims and the evil Jews are the oppressors. 0.63

00:46:25.680 You're an atheist, Gad. 0.98

00:46:28.700 I am.

00:46:29.760 Do you believe in evil?

00:46:32.360 I do.

00:46:33.280 I do.

00:46:33.720 Now, I don't think that one needs to couch the language of, you know, the existence of evil in a theological construct.

00:46:44.440 People are born with the random combination of genes that constitute originally their parents.

00:46:50.680 And sometimes people are born tall or short or with a blue dot on their face or without a blue dot on their face.

00:46:56.260 And similarly, through random mutations, some people are born, for example, serial killers are born without the capacity to feel empathy.

00:47:05.260 That's not rooted in a theological construct.

00:47:07.680 It's just the reality of the random combination of genes.

00:47:11.280 So is that there's I believe there is a force of evil and, you know, I don't have to take it to Satan or anything like that.

00:47:20.480 I can just take it to, you know, you had these really sick people like Hitler and Goebbels and everybody else. 0.67

00:47:28.580 They were really disturbed and they their force of will became in infectious and it it spread and that evil force that they had within them caught a lot of people up into it that that weren't necessarily evil.

00:47:51.400 They just kind of were swept up in it.

00:47:54.940 Right.

00:47:55.460 I mean, some of the most classic and best known experiments in psychology.

00:48:02.380 So, for example, the Milgram experiment, maybe you might know it.

00:48:05.620 But if let me just kind of briefly.

00:48:07.100 It's the Yale experiment.

00:48:08.820 Exactly.

00:48:09.340 The Yale experiment.

00:48:10.400 Well, that came as a result of many of the, you know, foot soldiers, the Nazi foot soldiers simply saying, hey, I'm not an evil guy.

00:48:17.560 I was just kind of I was caught up in the moment.

00:48:19.740 And so what Milgram wanted to do was test whether, you know, there was there was truth to that, whether I can take completely normal people, put them in a condition where I forced them to conform and then they would do some truly horrifying things.

00:48:33.820 And as he found out, he could get people without them knowing that this was a, you know, a made up thing.

00:48:40.140 He could get people to administer voltage to fellow students that would kill them simply through his authority.

00:48:47.480 Hey, you agreed to participate in this experiment.

00:48:49.980 Zap them.

00:48:50.920 And so.

00:48:51.600 So you're right.

00:48:52.460 Not every single Nazi was an evil guy, but certainly the ones who orchestrated it were. 0.93

00:48:58.920 This is it goes back to and you probably remember this book.

00:49:03.260 I can't remember the name of it.

00:49:04.780 I'm looking for it on my iPad here.

00:49:06.400 The the book about the soldiers in Poland that were some of the best policemen in Poland, not evil, and how the Germans turned them into just a massive killing machine.

00:49:26.100 And right and and and how and how you do that.

00:49:29.300 And I'm I have to tell you, with with the anti-Semitism that's going on with this new poll that we've talked about earlier this week, where about 40 percent of the population looks at the other side as not human.

00:49:45.620 20 percent of the Democrats and 13 percent of the Republicans say that we'd be better off if there was some sort of a mass killing of the other side.

00:50:00.360 We're headed towards some really frightening stuff.

00:50:03.460 The Blaze Radio Network.

00:50:08.160 On demand.

The Glenn Beck Program - May 15, 2019

Best of the Program ｜ Guests： Rory Sutherland & Dr. Gad Saad ｜ 5⧸15⧸19

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