The Glenn Beck Program - January 19, 2024


Best of the Program ｜ Guests： Sen. Eric Schmitt & Douglas Murray ｜ 1⧸19⧸24


Episode Stats


Length

50 minutes

Words per minute

152.43636

Word count

7,652

Sentence count

578

Harmful content

Misogyny

10

sentences flagged

Hate speech

8

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Glenn Beck is joined by Heritage Foundation President and Senator Eric Schmidt to discuss the Supreme Court's Chevron deference ruling and the impact it could have on the future of the Constitution. Also, Douglas Murray joins us to talk about the growing problem of antibiotic shortages and how to deal with them.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 We have a great show today. Yesterday on the podcast, we had the president of Heritage who gave us a preview of the speech he was going to give at Davos.
00:00:09.880 He gave it. We have that speech. It's incredible.
00:00:14.040 Also, we have one sexy, sexy man, Senator Eric Schmidt.
00:00:20.240 You'll understand when you hear the interview.
00:00:21.720 But he's talking about how to dismantle the administrative state and something that happened in the Supreme Court this week that, fingers crossed, will change everything.
00:00:32.520 Also, Douglas Murray joins us.
00:00:35.040 Earlier this week, I spoke to a woman who used to be in the home office, Anna Stanley, in London.
00:00:43.140 She went to King's College, something that was a course, a three-day course, that was made for anybody that was into homeland security over in England.
00:00:51.720 And in that, she found that Muslim terrorists are not the problem.
00:00:58.380 The biggest problem that England is concerned about is those dangerous, dangerous extremists like Joe Rogan and Douglas Murray.
00:01:08.020 It is a fascinating conversation you don't want to miss.
00:01:12.100 Then, if you remember that woman from Finland, she's in the Finnish parliament.
00:01:20.580 She is a pastor's wife.
00:01:22.560 She's been in parliament since 1995.
00:01:25.480 And she has now gone to court twice.
00:01:29.220 They have charged her under crimes against humanity.
00:01:34.780 They have charged her because she quoted the Bible.
00:01:37.260 She's gone to court now two times, been dismissed. 0.52
00:01:41.300 They've charged her a third time.
00:01:43.380 They're just not going to let this go.
00:01:44.860 It's at the Supreme Court now in Finland.
00:01:48.260 And she has to win.
00:01:50.560 Otherwise, it will be a deeply, deeply chilling standard for freedom of speech and being able to say what you believe is true in the Bible.
00:02:01.480 And, you know, you can disagree with me or not.
00:02:03.840 It's an amazing conversation.
00:02:07.000 Great show today.
00:02:08.160 All brought to you by Jace Medical.
00:02:10.400 Jace Medical is a fantastic service that you're just not going to find anywhere else.
00:02:15.980 These guys were so far ahead of their time.
00:02:17.600 They know that, you know, we're going to have shortages.
00:02:22.760 And they also know, because they live in the Mountain West, that people go up and they camp and they're on vacation and then something happens and somebody gets sick.
00:02:31.400 And you've got to come all the way down to go to the doctor.
00:02:33.900 Where instead, if you get sick on a vacation, you know, or you're on a trip, you need to have the antibiotics that can save your life.
00:02:44.160 And you can call your doctor and say, hey, I have these.
00:02:46.320 But that way you have them in the moment of need.
00:02:49.300 And it is grown into now with shortages of antibiotics and coming shortages of all medications.
00:02:57.640 How do you survive if your local CVS or Walgreens is out of the medication?
00:03:04.940 I have two daughters that take seizure medication.
00:03:07.540 One of them is grand mal seizures.
00:03:10.280 She's got to have that medication. 1.00
00:03:13.240 If there's a shortage, what do I do?
00:03:15.280 Well, I've already gone to JaceMedical.com.
00:03:18.480 And I have a year's worth of supply of all the medicines that my family needs.
00:03:23.200 A year's supply at your home.
00:03:25.720 It's Jace, J-A-S-E, Medical.com.
00:03:29.080 JaceMedical.com.
00:03:30.380 You're listening to The Best of the Glenn Beck Program.
00:03:43.040 Oh, yeah.
00:04:07.060 It's like we've got a broken copy machine and just ordered a pizza.
00:04:16.340 Ding dong.
00:04:19.980 We're going to talk some sexy, sexy things right now.
00:04:23.880 It's going to get kind of steamy in here.
00:04:27.280 Because we're going to talk about, ooh, that Supreme Court case that's so supreme.
00:04:38.660 Chevron difference.
00:04:41.240 Oh, yeah.
00:04:45.560 And we have the super hot, super sexy Senator Eric Schmidt, who must appreciate this intro.
00:04:57.360 Hello, Eric.
00:04:58.260 How are you?
00:04:59.220 Oh, Glenn.
00:05:00.200 That's why you're a Hall of Famer.
00:05:02.280 Only you.
00:05:02.960 I'm thinking about having you on, and I'm like, nobody wants to talk about Chevron deference because it's not sexy at all.
00:05:14.060 Oh, man.
00:05:15.220 That's good.
00:05:15.620 So, anyway, Chevron deference is so important.
00:05:19.440 What is happening this week, and we'll find out in June, could be.
00:05:24.600 It's not the silver bullet, but it is one of the silver bullets to put our country back onto a constitutional balance of power.
00:05:34.240 Can you explain Chevron deference?
00:05:37.060 Yeah, that's exactly right.
00:05:38.480 And so this is not getting a lot of plays.
00:05:40.040 So I appreciate you making this as interesting as possible because it's one of these things that has happened and really one of the building blocks, this Chevron deference of the administrative state that is really antithetical to the vision of the founders, you know, it's accountabilities, dispersing power.
00:05:58.020 So back in the 1980s.
00:05:58.980 Hang on just a second, Eric.
00:06:00.480 Sarah, can you help him out a little bit, just a little bit, Aaron?
00:06:04.640 Go ahead and hit that again.
00:06:06.180 And then, Garrett, go ahead.
00:06:07.320 Go ahead.
00:06:08.400 Yeah.
00:06:10.040 So I'm going to have to tune that out.
00:06:13.480 I'm going to have to act like I'm shooting free throws and people are yelling at me.
00:06:19.180 But so basically, Woodrow Wilson, who I would argue is maybe the worst president in our country's history.
00:06:26.840 Oh, it's getting hot in here again.
00:06:29.980 Just made the Woodrow.
00:06:31.160 I'm going to whisper Woodrow Wilson.
00:06:34.660 But anyway, so you see the growth of these agencies over time.
00:06:39.680 And all these alphabet agencies that take on enormous power over people's lives.
00:06:45.440 They can destroy businesses and livelihoods and take away liberty.
00:06:48.340 How did we get here?
00:06:49.600 One of the reasons we got here is there's this case called Chevron that was decided in the 1980s that basically said, look, if Congress hasn't specifically spelled something out, if there's some ambiguity, we're going to defer to an agency's interpretation of that as long as it's quote unquote reasonable.
00:07:09.500 So what that has led to over time is the courts just saying things are ambiguous and then agreeing and going along with an agency's interpretation.
00:07:18.520 This case that's in front of the Supreme Court right now, this is what's called Luperbright or Relentless, which I think is a better name.
00:07:24.760 There's a second plaintiff.
00:07:26.140 Essentially, there was a 1970s law that said for fishery, a fishery management plan that would allow observers to be on the vessel.
00:07:37.340 OK, so that's kind of how it worked.
00:07:38.680 There were observers on the vessel.
00:07:40.020 The government was paying for the observers.
00:07:41.480 Then all of a sudden, more recently, the agency said, well, now you've got to pay for the observers.
00:07:47.680 And they said, well, wait a minute.
00:07:48.860 That's never how it's been done before.
00:07:50.520 And where does that say in the statute?
00:07:52.080 And of course, it doesn't say in the statute.
00:07:53.900 The agency just wanted it that way.
00:07:55.840 So they lost at the lower court level.
00:07:57.720 This issue is now in front of the Supreme Court.
00:07:59.620 It's on that particular issue.
00:08:01.060 But it's about this broader Chevron deference issue.
00:08:05.500 If my hope is that the conservative justices would overturn Chevron, this is sort of a holy grail for people who want to get back to how our founders viewed the role of government, which is correct me if I'm wrong, Eric.
00:08:18.940 I mean, wasn't this written by Scalia?
00:08:22.700 Yeah.
00:08:23.120 No, it's actually one of the great paradoxes later on.
00:08:25.740 So he was an advocate for it.
00:08:28.480 And then later on, as it played out, he soured on the idea.
00:08:32.560 And so, yeah, it's one of the great it's one of the great ironies.
00:08:35.360 I mean, Justice Scalia, maybe maybe the greatest, if not one of the greatest justices of all time in the climate, I think, was different.
00:08:43.120 They viewed it a little bit differently than but certainly how it's played out.
00:08:47.220 This has been a total disaster.
00:08:48.800 So, as you know, when I was aging and now in the Senate, my maiden speech was about two great threats to the republic, the narrowing of the bandwidth of free speech and then the growth of the administrative state.
00:08:59.220 And there's a few things we can do, like Senator Lee and I are taking on the RAINS Act, which would say Congress should have to vote on any new regulation before it goes into effect.
00:09:08.180 That would slow this thing down.
00:09:09.960 You should make them pull back three regs before they issue one reg.
00:09:13.620 There are some things you can do that's deep structural reform.
00:09:16.280 But this court case that was argued in front of the Supreme Court yesterday, they'll probably be handed down in June, would go a long way in the legal process of defaying these agencies because no longer would the courts just say, well, the agency's in charge of this.
00:09:31.980 This is what they've said.
00:09:32.980 We're going to go with that.
00:09:34.360 Instead, they'll look to the statute and say, what does the statute actually say?
00:09:39.340 And if it doesn't allow it, the tie doesn't go to the runner or the agency.
00:09:42.940 The tie actually goes to the individual.
00:09:45.320 And so you would empower Congress.
00:09:49.980 They would have to take their power back.
00:09:52.400 They'd have to pass the laws and the regulations, which is the way it's supposed to work.
00:09:58.680 Give me a real-life big example on how this could change the average person's life if they get rid of this.
00:10:08.280 Well, in the broadest sense, you're right.
00:10:11.700 The Article I branch or Congress, they're no saints in this either.
00:10:15.860 They have willingly ceded this authority to the agencies because here's the game that gets played in Washington is they go back home and say, I voted for the greatest bill in the world.
00:10:26.240 And then they say, somebody asks a question, they say, but I can't believe what the EPA just did, right?
00:10:31.840 So they get to have it both ways.
00:10:33.660 And what I want to see, and I think what you want to see and what others want to see is make us accountable for this.
00:10:39.880 So if you're going to pass a law that deals with greenhouse emissions, right?
00:10:45.000 Well, part of the problem now is Congress hasn't done that.
00:10:48.340 Congress hasn't signed on to the Green New Deal, right?
00:10:51.400 So all of this effort and the money that's going to China now, all of this is being done by these agencies because the president wants their agencies to go do this.
00:11:00.700 So this would say basically, listen, if Congress hasn't weighed in on this, you don't get to do it.
00:11:05.800 We're not actually going to defer to you because you claim there's some ambiguity in the statute from the 1950s.
00:11:11.260 So this would put the onus back on Congress.
00:11:14.020 And that's where it should be because ultimately, if you think about the system we have,
00:11:17.580 it's meant to spread out power vertically, horizontally through separation of powers and federalism, right?
00:11:22.180 That's one piece of it.
00:11:23.440 But it's also based on accountability because every six years in the Senate and every two years in the House,
00:11:28.100 you have to go before the voters and they can actually now say, were you in favor of this?
00:11:33.440 Did you support this?
00:11:34.480 Did you vote yes or did you vote don't as opposed to blaming it on some agency that nobody has any idea
00:11:39.860 who the deputy undersecretary of, you know, some agency you've never heard of is.
00:11:44.520 Well, already, you know, we're reading reports that the Biden administration is looking for looking to the administrative officials
00:11:52.820 on ways that they can block anything that Trump might do if he comes in.
00:11:58.120 And that's the problem.
00:11:59.440 The president can come in, but if the structure is there, it's so deep and so intertwined with everything.
00:12:08.660 It will take it will take massive time and shears to start cutting those things back. 0.90
00:12:16.980 And meanwhile, they just keep adding more and more and more.
00:12:20.920 That's right.
00:12:21.680 And we had when I was attorney general, we had the student loan debt forgiveness case, for example.
00:12:26.700 Yes, we took that all the way to Supreme Court.
00:12:28.540 And one, Glenn, that was that was a half a trillion dollars that the president thought, relying on some statute that didn't apply,
00:12:37.420 that he could wipe away a half a trillion dollars with a student loan debt to fulfill a campaign promise.
00:12:42.040 That is not what this country is supposed to be about.
00:12:44.460 What's supposed to happen is the question should be put before Congress.
00:12:47.980 Do you want to do this or not?
00:12:49.560 And then we vote on it.
00:12:50.420 And so I do think this case will go a long way in putting that accountability back in our system.
00:12:56.520 And, you know, people, I think an important point here is beyond just the specifics of how it's going to help individuals or businesses, you know, reign in government.
00:13:04.880 There is also a real important kernel of truth in all this.
00:13:08.000 If you want to understand why people are so frustrated, I think, with what goes on in Washington is they feel like they send people there and things don't really ever change.
00:13:17.340 And part of that is there's this sort of fourth branch of government that's untouchable, which is the administrative state.
00:13:24.260 So if we can do our job, reign that in this court case is a big part of it.
00:13:27.900 I think over time it's good for the republic because people will, you know, again, feel like their government or people they send there are accountable to them.
00:13:37.800 Not, you know, again, some amorphous agency that no one's ever heard of.
00:13:42.200 Let me let me ask you a final question.
00:13:43.960 I read a lot of reports that say the justices were asking the questions that make one believe that they might actually go deep, not narrow, but deep on this.
00:13:55.360 Do you feel that way?
00:13:57.180 I do.
00:13:57.960 I think that probably the justice to watch here is Justice Roberts, who is just sort of well known as kind of an incrementalist.
00:14:04.700 And whether they kind of they've been chipping away at this a little bit, you know, over the last, I would say, five to seven years, they've been chipping away at some of this deference.
00:14:16.800 But I think they've got the kill shot here if they want to take it.
00:14:20.740 I think they will.
00:14:22.340 If I had to bet on it right now, I think they will.
00:14:24.940 But it's not a foregone conclusion.
00:14:26.860 But this is the best shot.
00:14:28.100 The people in these legal circles, I will tell you, there's been a desire to find the case that you can put before the court to test this again.
00:14:36.460 And I said, this is the case.
00:14:38.000 So this is this is really one to watch.
00:14:40.500 And again, it's really under the radar because it's not about, you know, guns or abortion or some of the things that typically are on the front page.
00:14:46.860 But it would have a really significant impact ultimately on the role of government in people's lives.
00:14:54.020 The other thing you mentioned quickly, because I'm out of time, but the other thing you mentioned was freedom of speech.
00:14:59.960 And we have been watching the World Economic Forum and what they're doing.
00:15:03.820 And mis and disinformation is now their number one priority.
00:15:08.000 Because there's going to be more people in the world voting this year than ever before in human history.
00:15:14.940 And they know.
00:15:16.300 And so they've got to control the spin and the media.
00:15:19.500 And we are already seeing this happening through NBC News, NBC News.
00:15:26.780 What was the other one this week?
00:15:28.880 And then the independent that are actually naming me and the blaze as critical disinformation outlets.
00:15:38.980 And we take this very seriously, obviously.
00:15:42.440 Can we can I give you a shout?
00:15:45.360 And I'd like to make sure that your staff has all.
00:15:49.160 We look for it specifically, and I'm sure your staff does.
00:15:52.020 But we'd like to make sure you're seeing all of the things that are coming out on this because it's becoming very, very dangerous.
00:16:00.940 Definitely.
00:16:01.580 And it's terrifying, Glenn.
00:16:02.820 As you know, our rights have come from God.
00:16:05.840 And government's job is supposed to protect those rights.
00:16:08.140 Principle is the idea of self-expression, your ability to speak your mind.
00:16:12.400 And that's why the First Amendment is so important.
00:16:15.040 And it's terrifying the degree to which these so-called leaders want to control the speech.
00:16:20.180 I guess it's not that surprising.
00:16:21.460 It's been the way of the world for a long time, but not in this country.
00:16:24.320 The Missouri versus Biden lawsuit that I filed that's in front of the Supreme Court, by the way, is a big part of that.
00:16:29.420 I've also filed legislation, Glenn, you'll appreciate this, to empower every individual that's censored by the government to sue that government official responsible for it directly.
00:16:37.700 So instead of one attorney general doing this, an army of citizens whose rights have been violated to go out, I think that will have a deterrent effect.
00:16:45.100 We've got to look for more solutions to stop this because there's nowhere else to go.
00:16:48.720 You look at that World Economic Forum.
00:16:50.140 You've got a bunch of people who are hell-bent on power and control.
00:16:53.060 That's all it is.
00:16:53.820 It's meant to quell dissent.
00:16:55.100 It's meant to intimidate.
00:16:56.340 And they cannot win.
00:16:59.020 Well, as sexy as ever, Eric.
00:17:01.660 As sexy as ever.
00:17:03.640 Senator Eric Schmidt, thank you so much, sir.
00:17:05.680 Appreciate it.
00:17:06.280 All right, my friend.
00:17:07.240 Take care.
00:17:07.800 Bye-bye.
00:17:08.100 You bet.
00:17:10.060 What a good sport on that one. 1.00
00:17:15.740 This is the best of the Glenn Beck Program.
00:17:23.420 Douglas Murray joins us now.
00:17:24.720 Douglas, how are you, sir?
00:17:26.760 Very good, thank you.
00:17:27.900 Good to be with you.
00:17:29.040 Yeah, I have to tell you, I can't thank you enough for your voice and your logic and your reason.
00:17:34.740 You are just, you are one of the more powerful people out there.
00:17:39.680 And I think that's why you're being targeted.
00:17:43.200 Did you happen to see the article that I was talking about with Anna Stanley?
00:17:50.180 Yes, I did.
00:17:52.680 I read it with considerable alarm.
00:17:55.000 This is a young woman who worked at the Foreign Office.
00:17:58.940 She was an open intelligence analyst.
00:18:02.360 Sent on a government training program to learn more about counterterrorism, counter-extremism.
00:18:08.340 And, of course, she revealed in the piece that, first of all, many of the, or several of the participants, the lecturers, completely downplayed Islamic extremism, when terrorism, which the British government does regard, and the intelligence services do regard as the primary threat to security in the UK.
00:18:26.920 And no mention of immigration playing a role in that.
00:18:31.880 None.
00:18:32.080 No, of course not.
00:18:32.820 Of course not.
00:18:33.680 Right.
00:18:33.920 Why would they talk about anything truthful?
00:18:36.100 And, but, yes, but more alarming to me was, even than that, was the fact that one of the lecturers, a man called Peter Newman, is a very sinister figure, in my view, said that the main thread, or one of the main threats, was from so-called far-right people.
00:18:57.940 And he named me and Joe Rogan.
00:19:00.680 Joe Rogan.
00:19:01.740 And, let me, let me quote the two paragraphs that you're, that this says is, the lecturer further argued, argued that Douglas Murray and Joe Rogan are both examples of the far-right.
00:19:14.300 To what extent, I'm quoting, should Joe Rogan and Douglas Murray be suppressed, he asked?
00:19:19.500 They have millions of followers.
00:19:21.700 To deplatform them would cause issues.
00:19:25.380 Whoops.
00:19:26.480 Did we lose him?
00:19:27.100 So, concluding his talk, the lecturer told a room full of government professionals, so society needs to find other ways to suppress them.
00:19:37.600 Is Douglas with us?
00:19:39.320 You getting him back on the phone?
00:19:39.820 The easiest way to suppress him is to hang up on him in the middle of the interview.
00:19:42.940 Exactly right.
00:19:43.520 That's the private sector suppressing him, I'll tell you that right now.
00:19:47.680 There you go.
00:19:48.140 We see what side you're on.
00:19:49.560 Yeah.
00:19:49.820 Well, no, it was just, it was a coincidence, and I've deleted all my files about hanging up on Douglas Murray.
00:19:57.800 Oh, that's.
00:19:58.360 This accident.
00:19:59.280 Yeah, it was crazy.
00:20:00.120 That's sad.
00:20:01.000 That's sad.
00:20:02.180 Yeah.
00:20:02.400 It's amazing to be the people who are actually targeted in the middle of this, too.
00:20:06.400 It's like, it's one thing to talk about it as an issue.
00:20:09.220 You know, it's one thing to say, okay, well, these things may happen, or they are happening.
00:20:12.640 But, like, when it's happening to you, obviously, Glenn, you were named in that article.
00:20:16.720 I was not.
00:20:18.560 Just to keep the record clear.
00:20:22.620 But it's got to be hard to go through it, right, when you're the one actually named.
00:20:26.460 Yeah.
00:20:26.620 He's back.
00:20:26.860 You know, I think, Douglas, you're back.
00:20:29.100 Thank you.
00:20:29.580 I'm sorry.
00:20:29.980 We were just suppressing your voice there for a minute.
00:20:31.940 But, you know, what's really frightening here is I've been talking about this stuff coming for a long time, and we've been hearing reports that they're doing this or that.
00:20:45.340 They are so outspoken on this and so bold, and they are so far down the line.
00:20:52.780 What do you think is coming for you?
00:20:56.320 I don't know, other than that there's no way anyone on Earth is going to suppress or silence me.
00:21:01.940 But I do think it's extraordinary the confidence that certain people have that they can suppress those who say things which I think are not only popular, but true.
00:21:15.100 But I thought it was fascinating, this man who has almost no following or recognition himself and who's an expert in a non-expertise, you know, that he should think that he could or other people should suppress me.
00:21:32.100 And since it wasn't just suppressing my voice, I've got my lawyers writing to his employers to find out what he has in mind for me.
00:21:40.740 Well, they were in that very thing.
00:21:42.600 They were talking about using banks and everything.
00:21:45.160 And we know they're doing this, you know.
00:21:47.840 And, you know, I said about four or five years ago that there's going to come a time where they are going to build a digital ghetto. 0.83
00:22:00.300 And I know all the implications of using those words.
00:22:04.260 And I was called an anti-Semite and everything else.
00:22:06.580 But that is what they're building.
00:22:08.700 You know, the Jews can talk all they want. 1.00
00:22:10.360 They can do whatever they want just behind this wall so nobody sees them or hears them.
00:22:15.980 And that's exactly the direction we're going.
00:22:20.920 And there's very particular moves that they're doing to make that.
00:22:25.660 One is this use of the term far right, which alarms me enormously because, of course, there are some people, particularly in Europe, who are what we would call far right.
00:22:34.840 They're nowhere near the centers of power.
00:22:37.000 But in bits of Germany and elsewhere, you know, there are very nasty things in the woodshed.
00:22:42.480 And unfortunately, what people have done in recent years, as you well know, is that in the name of really nothing other than political opportunism, certain people have decided to extend the parameters of what is allegedly far right.
00:22:58.500 And what they've done is they've extended it, not just to people, as on this occasion, it's absurd to call me or Joe Rogan far right, palpably, demonstrably absurd.
00:23:07.800 Yes.
00:23:08.060 But what they're really doing is they're trying to make public opinion be deemed far right.
00:23:14.380 And not just some public opinion, but majority public opinion.
00:23:17.620 Most people in the United States and the United Kingdom are deeply concerned about illegal migration.
00:23:25.440 But once you say concerned about illegal migration is far right, therefore, the majority of the public are called far right.
00:23:34.120 And that has a lot of implications these people don't think about.
00:23:38.100 First of all, is that, of course, it makes actual far right become completely normal because you're just saying, oh, well, everything's far right now.
00:23:46.840 And the second thing it does is that it defames and libels majority public concerns, which are legitimate concerns.
00:23:56.760 You know, Americans are right to be fearful about the implications of having an entirely porous southern border.
00:24:03.780 And the Europeans and British people and others are completely right to be concerned about having a totally porous southern border.
00:24:11.620 And to call these concerns extreme or to try to chuck them out of the mainstream is something so anti-democratic and anti-the populace that I'm just very alarmed that the way in which this is caught on.
00:24:26.900 Well, I don't know if you've been following Davos.
00:24:29.300 I'm sure you have this week.
00:24:30.740 Of course.
00:24:31.200 But yeah, but they're making mis and disinformation the number one priority.
00:24:36.200 And here in America, we've already had the Wall Street Journal.
00:24:38.960 We've had two stories now from NBC News this week on disinformation.
00:24:43.940 Listen to this paragraph in the story from NBC News.
00:24:47.160 An increasing number of voters have proven susceptible to disinformation from former President Donald Trump and his allies.
00:24:57.120 Artificial intelligence technology is ubiquitous.
00:24:59.840 Social media companies have slashed efforts to rein in misinformation on their platforms.
00:25:05.340 And attacks on the work and reputation of academics tracking disinformation have chilled the research.
00:25:12.320 So they're they're making the case that, you know, anybody who is even considering voting for Donald Trump, you are you've been captured by disinformation, which leads you to where Jordan Peterson is today.
00:25:29.800 You've got to go to a re-education camp.
00:25:33.080 Right.
00:25:33.260 But that's the thing, you know, is that this whole concept that there are experts and then there's us plebs.
00:25:42.440 Yes.
00:25:43.080 Part of this problem.
00:25:44.300 And the problem is not just how rude it is about us, the people.
00:25:48.560 We the people, to coin a phrase.
00:25:50.900 It's the fact that these self-appointed experts are not expert in many occasions.
00:25:56.480 I mean, the BBC, the BBC has a disinformation expert now, and she keeps on pumping out disinformation.
00:26:05.740 She keeps on getting things wrong. 0.95
00:26:08.120 Well, normally, that's the ebb and flow of journalism.
00:26:12.040 You know, one paper publishes one story.
00:26:14.740 Another paper says they're wrong.
00:26:16.720 That's fine.
00:26:17.700 But this idea that we have this sort of new priesthood class of academics, academics, experts in disinformation story, as the person we were just mentioning earlier from King's College London has shown, academics are perfectly capable of pumping out lies and disinformation.
00:26:36.020 Well, I would cite the famous Bill Buckley quote, you know, I'd rather go to the first hundred people in the phone book to find out what's true than say the board of Harvard University.
00:26:49.320 Yes.
00:26:49.920 You know, there's a story in the Washington Examiner that just came out.
00:26:53.520 Listen to this.
00:26:54.520 While the Department of Homeland Security has allowed as many as 10 million immigrants into the flood, our southern border, domestic surveillance state has prioritized something more important.
00:27:04.020 According to documents now unearthed by the Media Research Center, DHS paid $700,000 from a counterterrorism program to a self-described propaganda network.
00:27:17.080 The source of the funding was targeted violence and terrorism prevention grant program, which was created by Barack Obama to target al-Qaeda.
00:27:26.000 That was put on hold and then clandestinely revived by the then acting DHS head, Kevin McLean and Miles Taylor.
00:27:35.100 The infamous and insufferable anonymous resistance within the Trump administration.
00:27:41.260 The funding circumvented the White House budgeting process.
00:27:45.640 The beneficiary of the grand under President Joe Biden is the University of Rhode Island's media education lab.
00:27:51.800 In their application for the money, it said propaganda can also be used for socially beneficial purposes.
00:27:59.400 Indeed, because the public has long recognized as being suggestible, the United States has long made use of the beneficial propaganda during World War I, World War II and the Cold War.
00:28:09.880 So what they did is they were the source coming after MAGA supporters and saying that they're far-right, anti-Semites.
00:28:20.060 This is funded by our government.
00:28:23.820 And they're the ones telling us about disinformation?
00:28:26.620 Well, that's that's the other thing.
00:28:30.800 So if I were somebody in the situation of government in the last 15 years, I think I would want to try at least to take a look at myself and wonder where I've gone wrong, you know?
00:28:44.000 And you don't see that humility at all.
00:28:46.540 I would wonder, you know, instead of saying the public don't trust scientists anymore, I would say, what have the scientists done in recent years and scientific experts like Dr. Fauci?
00:28:59.700 What might they have done that slightly led the country into doubting scientists?
00:29:05.880 If I was a political pundit or a political expert within government in Washington, I would wonder, you know, not what it is that the public have got wrong, but what it is we have done in recent years that has undermined trust in the democratic process and much more.
00:29:28.080 And I never see it, you know, as a right-turner-thinker, I try to do self-critical.
00:29:35.880 I try to think about whether I've got something wrong, and these people just don't.
00:29:41.220 They're never wrong.
00:29:42.400 It's always us, the public, that are wrong and need to be corrected.
00:29:46.300 Douglas Murray, what do you what should the average person do?
00:29:51.220 Because this is with with more people voting for their officials more than any time in in U.S. or world history this year, more people will be voting in free and fair elections, hopefully, than ever before.
00:30:08.180 What do we do?
00:30:11.180 How do we how do we how do we solve this?
00:30:13.660 Because they're they are going to start putting us one by one behind a wall that will not be easy to spot it first.
00:30:20.440 I think I think I think it's increasingly easy to spot, if I can say so.
00:30:26.720 I think that the public today is so much more informed.
00:30:31.160 We are so much more informed than we were 10 years ago or 20 years ago or 30 years ago.
00:30:37.300 And one of the things is that a lot of things that tricks that could have been pulled on us 30 years ago are now very, very transparent.
00:30:46.820 And we have media that can address the problems when, you know, parts of the mainstream media get things wrong.
00:30:57.040 We are no longer able to be simply lectured to or sermonized to for a pulpit at The New York Times.
00:31:04.440 We no longer have a sort of innocence that we had as a public in the past.
00:31:10.740 And I think that's a good thing.
00:31:12.420 And it means that we're all we're all beholden to sort of know more, admittedly, and to see through more and to recognize just that just as it's true that sometimes we are told things that are completely true and we should trust some authority some of the time.
00:31:28.860 We also shouldn't be completely trusting and we can be skeptical and we can, you know, do our own research.
00:31:35.800 To use a phrase that is now poo-pooed by the so-called experts who say that it's dangerous for the public to do their own research.
00:31:43.340 You know, we shouldn't be endlessly cynical, but nor should we be endlessly supine.
00:31:49.760 We shouldn't be endlessly trusting.
00:31:51.980 And we don't need to be.
00:31:53.340 You know, if somebody simply told you, gave you one opinion on something incredibly important in your life, you probably wouldn't follow it.
00:32:00.520 You probably want to check, like, you know, when I get motor insurance, I don't go to one place for my, for my, my, you know, insurance going for it.
00:32:11.200 I look around.
00:32:12.200 Well, if we can do that with our cars, we can do it with our lives and we can do it with our political future.
00:32:19.000 And that's what we're all doing.
00:32:21.140 And anyone who says, I'm the only font of news, I'm the only font of correct opinion, don't trust anyone other than me, is somebody you should distrust.
00:32:31.360 And that, you know, frankly, you know, the Washington Post tagline, democracy dies in darkness.
00:32:37.240 You know, well, yeah, sure it does.
00:32:39.000 And media can die in darkness as well.
00:32:41.140 And sometimes the people who say we're the only ones you can trust, like the Washington Post, might just be the ones who end up flipping in some fibs along the way.
00:32:49.720 And that's what they've done.
00:32:51.360 And I think that we, the public, are in a much better position now than we ever have been before to see through it.
00:32:57.280 Douglas, always great to talk to you.
00:32:58.700 Thank you so much.
00:32:59.960 Thank you for everything.
00:33:00.760 Such a pleasure.
00:33:01.880 You bet.
00:33:02.120 Great pleasure.
00:33:02.820 Thank you.
00:33:03.640 So, by the way, talking about the Washington Post, here's the headline from the story that he was referring to.
00:33:09.300 Doing your own, this is Washington Post, doing your own research is a good way to end up being wrong.
00:33:15.080 Well, yeah, you could be wrong, but just listening to the Washington Post and the New York Times and CNN and even Fox News, you got a, you got an equal chance of being wrong there.
00:33:28.480 Do your own research.
00:33:30.080 Never close your mind.
00:33:31.240 Never stop asking questions.
00:33:33.420 Humble yourself so you're not arrogant.
00:33:35.560 I know what the truth is.
00:33:37.500 Always be open to hearing a different opinion.
00:33:40.540 And you will find the truth.
00:33:43.480 Prayerfully, you will find the truth.
00:33:49.240 This is the best of the Glenn Beck Program.
00:33:57.940 I'm going to say something here that has been said for thousands of years.
00:34:03.240 And in America, currently, I am not going to go to jail or prison for it.
00:34:10.540 Wherefore, God also gave them up to uncleanliness through the lusts of their own hearts to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.
00:34:22.780 I love that.
00:34:23.380 To dishonor their own bodies.
00:34:25.160 Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshiped and served the creature more than the creator who is blessed forever.
00:34:33.000 Amen.
00:34:33.200 For this cause, God gave them up to unto vile affections for even their women did change their natural use into that which is against nature. 0.99
00:34:44.880 And likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error, which was meat.
00:35:01.900 Now, should you be charged with a crime against humanity for treating that?
00:35:14.900 Welcome back to the program, our old friend, Kristen Wagoner.
00:35:18.320 She is Alliance Defending Freedom's CEO and president and also general counsel.
00:35:24.000 And Dr. Pevi Ra-Sanen.
00:35:28.760 Did I say that right?
00:35:31.380 Pevi Ra-Sanen.
00:35:32.640 Yes.
00:35:33.260 Yes.
00:35:33.600 Okay.
00:35:34.140 Ra-Sanen.
00:35:34.960 Yes.
00:35:35.700 Okay.
00:35:36.240 Well, welcome to the program.
00:35:37.880 I've been watching your case and it's an honor to have you on the program.
00:35:41.660 I think you are so brave, believe it or not, I can't believe I'm saying this, for quoting the Bible.
00:35:51.460 Can you tell us how this whole thing started?
00:35:58.580 Yes.
00:35:59.740 So, thank you for having me.
00:36:02.100 It is so happy to be, I'm happy to be here.
00:36:05.480 So, yes, this started over four years ago when I was shocked when I heard that the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church, which is the main church of Finland, its leadership decided officially to support and also financially to support the Helsinki Pride event.
00:36:30.000 Okay.
00:36:31.080 So, hang on just a second.
00:36:32.520 You are a proud member of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland.
00:36:37.020 Yes, I am.
00:36:37.900 And in 2019, they decided to have a Pride 2019 event.
00:36:42.720 And as a member of the congregation, you tweeted about it, right?
00:36:47.700 Yes, I tweeted about it and I made a question to the leadership of my church that how does this fit to the foundation of the church and these Bible verses that you just read.
00:37:03.700 And after that, then it was a surprise to me that police started to investigate the case when some citizen had made a criminal complaint about this.
00:37:19.600 And after that, there became more criminal complaint about an old pamphlet that I had written already 2004.
00:37:29.660 And then there was also a radio show.
00:37:33.500 And it has...
00:37:34.480 Okay, hang on just a second.
00:37:35.560 Hang on just...
00:37:36.400 The name of...
00:37:37.420 I want to find this here because the name of that pamphlet is so gentle, it kills me.
00:37:45.640 I can't find it.
00:37:46.400 What was the name of the pamphlet?
00:37:47.560 Male and female he created, same. 0.94
00:37:52.840 Male and female he created, colon, what's the rest of it? 0.98
00:38:01.000 Homosexual relationships challenge. 0.64
00:38:04.400 I love this.
00:38:05.800 Homosexual relationships challenge Christianity. 0.98
00:38:11.660 Challenge.
00:38:12.660 Yes.
00:38:12.900 I mean, you couldn't be more academic about it.
00:38:19.540 Yes.
00:38:21.180 Yes.
00:38:22.380 In fact, what I speak there in that pamphlet, what I write, it is about, I would say, classical Christianity.
00:38:32.060 What churches have taught for hundreds of years, that the marriage is between man and woman, one man and one woman, and that also the sexual relationships belongs to that relationship.
00:38:48.380 And I also spoke about that the other relationships are against God's will.
00:38:58.440 So, very simple and classical Christian beliefs.
00:39:03.680 And I also be told, for example, that all human beings are valuable, all are created as the image of God.
00:39:13.340 Correct.
00:39:14.060 So, now you were charged...
00:39:15.480 And there was no hate speech.
00:39:17.020 No hate speech.
00:39:18.060 Right.
00:39:18.160 Right.
00:39:18.440 I know.
00:39:19.020 You were challenging your church, what do we believe?
00:39:23.760 You were charged with agitation against a minority group, which comes under the section of the criminal code titled, War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
00:39:36.580 I just, this is amazing to me.
00:39:40.720 I wanted to get Christian in for this.
00:39:44.480 I mean, that sounds really bad to be charged with that.
00:39:50.560 Really bad.
00:39:51.400 Yes.
00:39:51.940 It does sound really bad.
00:39:55.520 In Finland, we have the law about agitation against minorities.
00:40:01.840 Right.
00:40:02.040 Quite similar laws are in other European countries.
00:40:06.580 And, yes.
00:40:08.760 Okay.
00:40:09.120 It's under the section.
00:40:10.800 So, Christian, what does it mean?
00:40:13.540 What penalties is that?
00:40:15.840 What does this mean?
00:40:17.740 Well, it can carry a potential penalty of two years in prison.
00:40:20.740 Thankfully, the prosecution hasn't asked for time in prison, but they were demanding very high fines.
00:40:27.280 And, again, convicting her of the hate crimes, of initially charging her with three hate crimes.
00:40:34.180 What I would also bring out, Glenn, that Pivey didn't state is the timing of these statements.
00:40:40.760 So, you know, in terms of the timing of the different statements, the pamphlet was written in 2004, many, many years before this all began, and actually even before this particular law was put in place.
00:40:55.500 And then the, you know, in terms of the other radio program, that was 2019.
00:41:02.720 So, really what happened was the tweet went out.
00:41:05.620 A Finnish prosecutor decided to launch with the police a full-bore investigation into every public statement that Pivey had made during the course of a nearly 30-year political career.
00:41:16.720 This, Pivey is so well-known in Finland as serving her country in a variety of areas.
00:41:24.720 Again, serving as a part of parliament for 30 years.
00:41:28.440 She's a doctor, and she's a pastor's wife. 0.99
00:41:31.960 So, it would be only appropriate that she would speak out on this issue.
00:41:36.640 And whether you agree with her or not, she has the right to be able to express her beliefs.
00:41:41.400 So, Pivey, what has happened to your reputation?
00:41:46.540 Have you faced a new election since all of this has been going on?
00:41:52.060 And what's happening?
00:41:54.200 Yes, in fact, last April, we had the parliamentary elections in Finland.
00:42:01.620 And I'm happy that I was re-elected, and I got even more votes than four years ago.
00:42:10.300 So, I'm so happy that people trust on me still.
00:42:17.300 So, let me ask you again, back to Christian. 0.96
00:42:20.880 This is, again, the elites, the government, going against, obviously, what people are feeling that are voting for her.
00:42:34.240 She doesn't have any hate.
00:42:35.900 Now, this is the third time she's been charged, or is this just, are they just kicking it up finally to the Supreme Court?
00:42:44.540 Is this like an American system, or does she have to be recharged each time? 0.97
00:42:49.540 There are some similarities to the American system, but then some things that are very different,
00:42:54.400 that make this even worse than what someone would experience here in the U.S.
00:42:58.080 She was charged with three crimes, three hate crimes, and that went to the trial court level like we would have here.
00:43:05.160 She was fully exonerated.
00:43:06.720 There was a finding of not guilty in the trial court level, and we were privileged to support that legal defense.
00:43:12.800 But, unlike the U.S. system, when you are found not guilty in Finland of a crime, the prosecutor can choose to appeal that to the next level.
00:43:22.900 And so, again, with just a vicious prosecution designed to have, I think, a chilling effect to send a message to Finnish citizens,
00:43:32.000 if we can get Pivey, we can get any one of you, then they appealed it, and we won, again, in a unanimous decision with multiple judges.
00:43:42.920 Pivey was found not guilty.
00:43:44.420 And now the prosecution has, again, asked the Finnish Supreme Court to hear the case one more time,
00:43:52.340 and that would be the equivalent of asking our U.S. Supreme Court to hear a case.
00:43:57.400 So, A, if she wins again, that's no guarantee they'll stop.
00:44:05.140 I mean, you know, here in the United States, we're seeing it.
00:44:08.160 Show me the person, I'll show you the crime, and they're going to take you out if they want to take you out, or they're going to try.
00:44:16.460 With the Supreme Court, because they don't have the First Amendment, which we have, and really nobody's listening to it right now, but at least we have it.
00:44:25.260 They don't have First Amendment right.
00:44:27.540 So, how is she winning?
00:44:30.080 Why is she winning? 0.95
00:44:32.360 Well, the freedom of expression and speech is a fundamental right that is guaranteed by every major human rights treaty.
00:44:38.820 And there are also guarantees in Finnish law to free expression.
00:44:43.740 And I think it's important for Americans to understand there are not any magic words in our First Amendment.
00:44:49.980 Many Western democracies have language in their constitutions and in international treaties to protect these rights, because we know they're fundamental rights.
00:44:59.060 They're not American rights.
00:45:00.340 They're pre-political.
00:45:01.180 And so, she does have protections under the law, and that's what the lower courts have recognized in the past.
00:45:09.520 If she wins at the Finnish Supreme Court, it will set the precedent for all of Finland and protect others and send a message to the world.
00:45:16.880 If she loses, it will be a very ominous decision, not only just for Finland, but for all Western democracies.
00:45:27.120 Because when we lose free speech, we blur the line between democracy and dictatorship.
00:45:31.480 So, Pavi, I don't know anything really about Finland.
00:45:39.640 The only thing I can say in Finnish is keksi, which I think is cookie, right?
00:45:45.760 But, of course, I would loan that one.
00:45:48.840 But I understand that Finland is not a real, deeply religious country.
00:45:56.720 What do the non-religious people feel about all of this?
00:46:04.540 I think that in Finland, the general atmosphere towards this case is quite divided.
00:46:12.600 The LGBT advocates are quite active in Finnish society and also in our main church.
00:46:20.980 And they have hoped that this process would continue and it would end, to my conviction.
00:46:32.360 But, of course, I have also a lot of supporters in Finland.
00:46:38.600 And also, those people who are not Christians or other faiths, many of them have supported me.
00:46:52.320 Even though that they disagree with me, but they support the freedom of speech.
00:46:58.340 Yes.
00:46:59.380 Free speech and freedom of faith.
00:47:02.300 So, I think that my calling and my privilege has been to defend and to fight for these important freedoms in our society.
00:47:13.820 And also to testify about the biblical teachings and testify about Jesus in the same time.
00:47:20.820 So, you are, you're amazing.
00:47:23.380 I mean, heroes are being created every day all around the world.
00:47:28.860 Because in, you know, in other times, we didn't have to stand up for anything.
00:47:33.060 It was just accepted.
00:47:34.040 Now you actually have to risk something for your faith or your point of view.
00:47:38.260 And I have so much admiration for you.
00:47:39.980 I want to print up, you know, T-shirts with Romans, just saying Romans 1, 25 through 27, just because we can.
00:47:52.640 If I do that, I'd like to raise money for you.
00:47:54.920 How are your legal fees?
00:47:56.560 Christian, how is this working for her?
00:47:58.840 How is she paying for all of this? 0.99
00:48:01.740 Well, Alliance Defending Freedom International is able to provide our services pro bono.
00:48:08.200 And we have a Finnish attorney that has also joined this battle.
00:48:12.600 He's an allied attorney as well.
00:48:15.800 And Pivey might want to answer that more fully.
00:48:18.200 But all of our services are funded by those who want to just give to the ministry and support people like Pivey.
00:48:25.440 Pivey, how are you holding up?
00:48:27.620 Yes, I'm very thankful for ADF.
00:48:31.820 The support of ADF has been very valuable.
00:48:35.500 And also the expertise that they have, it has been very important for me during this case.
00:48:47.020 Yeah.
00:48:47.920 Well, I so appreciate it.
00:48:50.420 Christian, I urge everybody in my listening audience, this is a cause you can get behind that will make a difference because it's making a difference all around the world.
00:49:02.880 ADF makes, I mean, they're involved in so much and it's all about freedom of speech and religion.
00:49:11.460 ADFlegal.org, ADFlegal.org.
00:49:15.300 Please donate if you have anything extra, even see if you can make it monthly.
00:49:20.960 And Christian, if you want, you print up the t-shirt.
00:49:24.300 I can get them at a great discount.
00:49:25.540 I'll even print them up.
00:49:26.300 And then you just, you can sell them and I'll drive people to your site so they can sell it.
00:49:31.120 I mean, I can't believe somebody is being charged with a crime under Crimes Against Humanity for quoting the Bible.
00:49:40.160 We really need to appreciate how free we are here.
00:49:45.820 Thank you both.
00:49:47.200 God bless.
00:49:47.840 Anything I can do, please let us know.
00:49:50.520 And I please, as an audience member, I think this is so critical.
00:49:56.600 Please go to ADFlegal.org right now and make a donation.
00:50:01.320 ADFlegal.org.
00:50:02.900 This has to be stopped.
00:50:05.300 One country at a time.
00:50:08.120 ADFlegal.org.
00:50:09.560 Na, na, na, na, na, na.