Glenn Beck is joined by Heritage Foundation President and Senator Eric Schmidt to discuss the Supreme Court's Chevron deference ruling and the impact it could have on the future of the Constitution. Also, Douglas Murray joins us to talk about the growing problem of antibiotic shortages and how to deal with them.
00:00:00.000We have a great show today. Yesterday on the podcast, we had the president of Heritage who gave us a preview of the speech he was going to give at Davos.
00:00:09.880He gave it. We have that speech. It's incredible.
00:00:14.040Also, we have one sexy, sexy man, Senator Eric Schmidt.
00:00:20.240You'll understand when you hear the interview.
00:00:21.720But he's talking about how to dismantle the administrative state and something that happened in the Supreme Court this week that, fingers crossed, will change everything.
00:00:35.040Earlier this week, I spoke to a woman who used to be in the home office, Anna Stanley, in London.
00:00:43.140She went to King's College, something that was a course, a three-day course, that was made for anybody that was into homeland security over in England.
00:00:51.720And in that, she found that Muslim terrorists are not the problem.
00:00:58.380The biggest problem that England is concerned about is those dangerous, dangerous extremists like Joe Rogan and Douglas Murray.
00:01:08.020It is a fascinating conversation you don't want to miss.
00:01:12.100Then, if you remember that woman from Finland, she's in the Finnish parliament.
00:01:50.560Otherwise, it will be a deeply, deeply chilling standard for freedom of speech and being able to say what you believe is true in the Bible.
00:02:01.480And, you know, you can disagree with me or not.
00:02:10.400Jace Medical is a fantastic service that you're just not going to find anywhere else.
00:02:15.980These guys were so far ahead of their time.
00:02:17.600They know that, you know, we're going to have shortages.
00:02:22.760And they also know, because they live in the Mountain West, that people go up and they camp and they're on vacation and then something happens and somebody gets sick.
00:02:31.400And you've got to come all the way down to go to the doctor.
00:02:33.900Where instead, if you get sick on a vacation, you know, or you're on a trip, you need to have the antibiotics that can save your life.
00:02:44.160And you can call your doctor and say, hey, I have these.
00:02:46.320But that way you have them in the moment of need.
00:02:49.300And it is grown into now with shortages of antibiotics and coming shortages of all medications.
00:02:57.640How do you survive if your local CVS or Walgreens is out of the medication?
00:03:04.940I have two daughters that take seizure medication.
00:05:38.480And so this is not getting a lot of plays.
00:05:40.040So I appreciate you making this as interesting as possible because it's one of these things that has happened and really one of the building blocks, this Chevron deference of the administrative state that is really antithetical to the vision of the founders, you know, it's accountabilities, dispersing power.
00:06:49.600One of the reasons we got here is there's this case called Chevron that was decided in the 1980s that basically said, look, if Congress hasn't specifically spelled something out, if there's some ambiguity, we're going to defer to an agency's interpretation of that as long as it's quote unquote reasonable.
00:07:09.500So what that has led to over time is the courts just saying things are ambiguous and then agreeing and going along with an agency's interpretation.
00:07:18.520This case that's in front of the Supreme Court right now, this is what's called Luperbright or Relentless, which I think is a better name.
00:08:01.060But it's about this broader Chevron deference issue.
00:08:05.500If my hope is that the conservative justices would overturn Chevron, this is sort of a holy grail for people who want to get back to how our founders viewed the role of government, which is correct me if I'm wrong, Eric.
00:08:18.940I mean, wasn't this written by Scalia?
00:08:48.800So, as you know, when I was aging and now in the Senate, my maiden speech was about two great threats to the republic, the narrowing of the bandwidth of free speech and then the growth of the administrative state.
00:08:59.220And there's a few things we can do, like Senator Lee and I are taking on the RAINS Act, which would say Congress should have to vote on any new regulation before it goes into effect.
00:09:09.960You should make them pull back three regs before they issue one reg.
00:09:13.620There are some things you can do that's deep structural reform.
00:09:16.280But this court case that was argued in front of the Supreme Court yesterday, they'll probably be handed down in June, would go a long way in the legal process of defaying these agencies because no longer would the courts just say, well, the agency's in charge of this.
00:09:49.980They would have to take their power back.
00:09:52.400They'd have to pass the laws and the regulations, which is the way it's supposed to work.
00:09:58.680Give me a real-life big example on how this could change the average person's life if they get rid of this.
00:10:08.280Well, in the broadest sense, you're right.
00:10:11.700The Article I branch or Congress, they're no saints in this either.
00:10:15.860They have willingly ceded this authority to the agencies because here's the game that gets played in Washington is they go back home and say, I voted for the greatest bill in the world.
00:10:26.240And then they say, somebody asks a question, they say, but I can't believe what the EPA just did, right?
00:10:33.660And what I want to see, and I think what you want to see and what others want to see is make us accountable for this.
00:10:39.880So if you're going to pass a law that deals with greenhouse emissions, right?
00:10:45.000Well, part of the problem now is Congress hasn't done that.
00:10:48.340Congress hasn't signed on to the Green New Deal, right?
00:10:51.400So all of this effort and the money that's going to China now, all of this is being done by these agencies because the president wants their agencies to go do this.
00:11:00.700So this would say basically, listen, if Congress hasn't weighed in on this, you don't get to do it.
00:11:05.800We're not actually going to defer to you because you claim there's some ambiguity in the statute from the 1950s.
00:11:11.260So this would put the onus back on Congress.
00:11:14.020And that's where it should be because ultimately, if you think about the system we have,
00:11:17.580it's meant to spread out power vertically, horizontally through separation of powers and federalism, right?
00:12:50.420And so I do think this case will go a long way in putting that accountability back in our system.
00:12:56.520And, you know, people, I think an important point here is beyond just the specifics of how it's going to help individuals or businesses, you know, reign in government.
00:13:04.880There is also a real important kernel of truth in all this.
00:13:08.000If you want to understand why people are so frustrated, I think, with what goes on in Washington is they feel like they send people there and things don't really ever change.
00:13:17.340And part of that is there's this sort of fourth branch of government that's untouchable, which is the administrative state.
00:13:24.260So if we can do our job, reign that in this court case is a big part of it.
00:13:27.900I think over time it's good for the republic because people will, you know, again, feel like their government or people they send there are accountable to them.
00:13:37.800Not, you know, again, some amorphous agency that no one's ever heard of.
00:13:42.200Let me let me ask you a final question.
00:13:43.960I read a lot of reports that say the justices were asking the questions that make one believe that they might actually go deep, not narrow, but deep on this.
00:13:57.960I think that probably the justice to watch here is Justice Roberts, who is just sort of well known as kind of an incrementalist.
00:14:04.700And whether they kind of they've been chipping away at this a little bit, you know, over the last, I would say, five to seven years, they've been chipping away at some of this deference.
00:14:16.800But I think they've got the kill shot here if they want to take it.
00:14:28.100The people in these legal circles, I will tell you, there's been a desire to find the case that you can put before the court to test this again.
00:14:38.000So this is this is really one to watch.
00:14:40.500And again, it's really under the radar because it's not about, you know, guns or abortion or some of the things that typically are on the front page.
00:14:46.860But it would have a really significant impact ultimately on the role of government in people's lives.
00:14:54.020The other thing you mentioned quickly, because I'm out of time, but the other thing you mentioned was freedom of speech.
00:14:59.960And we have been watching the World Economic Forum and what they're doing.
00:15:03.820And mis and disinformation is now their number one priority.
00:15:08.000Because there's going to be more people in the world voting this year than ever before in human history.
00:16:21.460It's been the way of the world for a long time, but not in this country.
00:16:24.320The Missouri versus Biden lawsuit that I filed that's in front of the Supreme Court, by the way, is a big part of that.
00:16:29.420I've also filed legislation, Glenn, you'll appreciate this, to empower every individual that's censored by the government to sue that government official responsible for it directly.
00:16:37.700So instead of one attorney general doing this, an army of citizens whose rights have been violated to go out, I think that will have a deterrent effect.
00:16:45.100We've got to look for more solutions to stop this because there's nowhere else to go.
00:16:48.720You look at that World Economic Forum.
00:16:50.140You've got a bunch of people who are hell-bent on power and control.
00:18:02.360Sent on a government training program to learn more about counterterrorism, counter-extremism.
00:18:08.340And, of course, she revealed in the piece that, first of all, many of the, or several of the participants, the lecturers, completely downplayed Islamic extremism, when terrorism, which the British government does regard, and the intelligence services do regard as the primary threat to security in the UK.
00:18:26.920And no mention of immigration playing a role in that.
00:18:33.920Why would they talk about anything truthful?
00:18:36.100And, but, yes, but more alarming to me was, even than that, was the fact that one of the lecturers, a man called Peter Newman, is a very sinister figure, in my view, said that the main thread, or one of the main threats, was from so-called far-right people.
00:19:01.740And, let me, let me quote the two paragraphs that you're, that this says is, the lecturer further argued, argued that Douglas Murray and Joe Rogan are both examples of the far-right.
00:19:14.300To what extent, I'm quoting, should Joe Rogan and Douglas Murray be suppressed, he asked?
00:20:29.980We were just suppressing your voice there for a minute.
00:20:31.940But, you know, what's really frightening here is I've been talking about this stuff coming for a long time, and we've been hearing reports that they're doing this or that.
00:20:45.340They are so outspoken on this and so bold, and they are so far down the line.
00:20:56.320I don't know, other than that there's no way anyone on Earth is going to suppress or silence me.
00:21:01.940But I do think it's extraordinary the confidence that certain people have that they can suppress those who say things which I think are not only popular, but true.
00:21:15.100But I thought it was fascinating, this man who has almost no following or recognition himself and who's an expert in a non-expertise, you know, that he should think that he could or other people should suppress me.
00:21:32.100And since it wasn't just suppressing my voice, I've got my lawyers writing to his employers to find out what he has in mind for me.
00:22:08.700You know, the Jews can talk all they want.
00:22:10.360They can do whatever they want just behind this wall so nobody sees them or hears them.
00:22:15.980And that's exactly the direction we're going.
00:22:20.920And there's very particular moves that they're doing to make that.
00:22:25.660One is this use of the term far right, which alarms me enormously because, of course, there are some people, particularly in Europe, who are what we would call far right.
00:22:34.840They're nowhere near the centers of power.
00:22:37.000But in bits of Germany and elsewhere, you know, there are very nasty things in the woodshed.
00:22:42.480And unfortunately, what people have done in recent years, as you well know, is that in the name of really nothing other than political opportunism, certain people have decided to extend the parameters of what is allegedly far right.
00:22:58.500And what they've done is they've extended it, not just to people, as on this occasion, it's absurd to call me or Joe Rogan far right, palpably, demonstrably absurd.
00:23:08.060But what they're really doing is they're trying to make public opinion be deemed far right.
00:23:14.380And not just some public opinion, but majority public opinion.
00:23:17.620Most people in the United States and the United Kingdom are deeply concerned about illegal migration.
00:23:25.440But once you say concerned about illegal migration is far right, therefore, the majority of the public are called far right.
00:23:34.120And that has a lot of implications these people don't think about.
00:23:38.100First of all, is that, of course, it makes actual far right become completely normal because you're just saying, oh, well, everything's far right now.
00:23:46.840And the second thing it does is that it defames and libels majority public concerns, which are legitimate concerns.
00:23:56.760You know, Americans are right to be fearful about the implications of having an entirely porous southern border.
00:24:03.780And the Europeans and British people and others are completely right to be concerned about having a totally porous southern border.
00:24:11.620And to call these concerns extreme or to try to chuck them out of the mainstream is something so anti-democratic and anti-the populace that I'm just very alarmed that the way in which this is caught on.
00:24:26.900Well, I don't know if you've been following Davos.
00:24:31.200But yeah, but they're making mis and disinformation the number one priority.
00:24:36.200And here in America, we've already had the Wall Street Journal.
00:24:38.960We've had two stories now from NBC News this week on disinformation.
00:24:43.940Listen to this paragraph in the story from NBC News.
00:24:47.160An increasing number of voters have proven susceptible to disinformation from former President Donald Trump and his allies.
00:24:57.120Artificial intelligence technology is ubiquitous.
00:24:59.840Social media companies have slashed efforts to rein in misinformation on their platforms.
00:25:05.340And attacks on the work and reputation of academics tracking disinformation have chilled the research.
00:25:12.320So they're they're making the case that, you know, anybody who is even considering voting for Donald Trump, you are you've been captured by disinformation, which leads you to where Jordan Peterson is today.
00:25:29.800You've got to go to a re-education camp.
00:26:17.700But this idea that we have this sort of new priesthood class of academics, academics, experts in disinformation story, as the person we were just mentioning earlier from King's College London has shown, academics are perfectly capable of pumping out lies and disinformation.
00:26:36.020Well, I would cite the famous Bill Buckley quote, you know, I'd rather go to the first hundred people in the phone book to find out what's true than say the board of Harvard University.
00:26:54.520While the Department of Homeland Security has allowed as many as 10 million immigrants into the flood, our southern border, domestic surveillance state has prioritized something more important.
00:27:04.020According to documents now unearthed by the Media Research Center, DHS paid $700,000 from a counterterrorism program to a self-described propaganda network.
00:27:17.080The source of the funding was targeted violence and terrorism prevention grant program, which was created by Barack Obama to target al-Qaeda.
00:27:26.000That was put on hold and then clandestinely revived by the then acting DHS head, Kevin McLean and Miles Taylor.
00:27:35.100The infamous and insufferable anonymous resistance within the Trump administration.
00:27:41.260The funding circumvented the White House budgeting process.
00:27:45.640The beneficiary of the grand under President Joe Biden is the University of Rhode Island's media education lab.
00:27:51.800In their application for the money, it said propaganda can also be used for socially beneficial purposes.
00:27:59.400Indeed, because the public has long recognized as being suggestible, the United States has long made use of the beneficial propaganda during World War I, World War II and the Cold War.
00:28:09.880So what they did is they were the source coming after MAGA supporters and saying that they're far-right, anti-Semites.
00:28:30.800So if I were somebody in the situation of government in the last 15 years, I think I would want to try at least to take a look at myself and wonder where I've gone wrong, you know?
00:28:44.000And you don't see that humility at all.
00:28:46.540I would wonder, you know, instead of saying the public don't trust scientists anymore, I would say, what have the scientists done in recent years and scientific experts like Dr. Fauci?
00:28:59.700What might they have done that slightly led the country into doubting scientists?
00:29:05.880If I was a political pundit or a political expert within government in Washington, I would wonder, you know, not what it is that the public have got wrong, but what it is we have done in recent years that has undermined trust in the democratic process and much more.
00:29:28.080And I never see it, you know, as a right-turner-thinker, I try to do self-critical.
00:29:35.880I try to think about whether I've got something wrong, and these people just don't.
00:29:42.400It's always us, the public, that are wrong and need to be corrected.
00:29:46.300Douglas Murray, what do you what should the average person do?
00:29:51.220Because this is with with more people voting for their officials more than any time in in U.S. or world history this year, more people will be voting in free and fair elections, hopefully, than ever before.
00:31:12.420And it means that we're all we're all beholden to sort of know more, admittedly, and to see through more and to recognize just that just as it's true that sometimes we are told things that are completely true and we should trust some authority some of the time.
00:31:28.860We also shouldn't be completely trusting and we can be skeptical and we can, you know, do our own research.
00:31:35.800To use a phrase that is now poo-pooed by the so-called experts who say that it's dangerous for the public to do their own research.
00:31:43.340You know, we shouldn't be endlessly cynical, but nor should we be endlessly supine.
00:31:53.340You know, if somebody simply told you, gave you one opinion on something incredibly important in your life, you probably wouldn't follow it.
00:32:00.520You probably want to check, like, you know, when I get motor insurance, I don't go to one place for my, for my, my, you know, insurance going for it.
00:32:21.140And anyone who says, I'm the only font of news, I'm the only font of correct opinion, don't trust anyone other than me, is somebody you should distrust.
00:32:31.360And that, you know, frankly, you know, the Washington Post tagline, democracy dies in darkness.
00:32:39.000And media can die in darkness as well.
00:32:41.140And sometimes the people who say we're the only ones you can trust, like the Washington Post, might just be the ones who end up flipping in some fibs along the way.
00:33:03.640So, by the way, talking about the Washington Post, here's the headline from the story that he was referring to.
00:33:09.300Doing your own, this is Washington Post, doing your own research is a good way to end up being wrong.
00:33:15.080Well, yeah, you could be wrong, but just listening to the Washington Post and the New York Times and CNN and even Fox News, you got a, you got an equal chance of being wrong there.
00:34:33.200For this cause, God gave them up to unto vile affections for even their women did change their natural use into that which is against nature.
00:34:44.880And likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error, which was meat.
00:35:01.900Now, should you be charged with a crime against humanity for treating that?
00:35:14.900Welcome back to the program, our old friend, Kristen Wagoner.
00:35:18.320She is Alliance Defending Freedom's CEO and president and also general counsel.
00:36:02.100It is so happy to be, I'm happy to be here.
00:36:05.480So, yes, this started over four years ago when I was shocked when I heard that the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church, which is the main church of Finland, its leadership decided officially to support and also financially to support the Helsinki Pride event.
00:36:37.900And in 2019, they decided to have a Pride 2019 event.
00:36:42.720And as a member of the congregation, you tweeted about it, right?
00:36:47.700Yes, I tweeted about it and I made a question to the leadership of my church that how does this fit to the foundation of the church and these Bible verses that you just read.
00:37:03.700And after that, then it was a surprise to me that police started to investigate the case when some citizen had made a criminal complaint about this.
00:37:19.600And after that, there became more criminal complaint about an old pamphlet that I had written already 2004.
00:38:22.380In fact, what I speak there in that pamphlet, what I write, it is about, I would say, classical Christianity.
00:38:32.060What churches have taught for hundreds of years, that the marriage is between man and woman, one man and one woman, and that also the sexual relationships belongs to that relationship.
00:38:48.380And I also spoke about that the other relationships are against God's will.
00:38:58.440So, very simple and classical Christian beliefs.
00:39:03.680And I also be told, for example, that all human beings are valuable, all are created as the image of God.
00:39:19.020You were challenging your church, what do we believe?
00:39:23.760You were charged with agitation against a minority group, which comes under the section of the criminal code titled, War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
00:40:17.740Well, it can carry a potential penalty of two years in prison.
00:40:20.740Thankfully, the prosecution hasn't asked for time in prison, but they were demanding very high fines.
00:40:27.280And, again, convicting her of the hate crimes, of initially charging her with three hate crimes.
00:40:34.180What I would also bring out, Glenn, that Pivey didn't state is the timing of these statements.
00:40:40.760So, you know, in terms of the timing of the different statements, the pamphlet was written in 2004, many, many years before this all began, and actually even before this particular law was put in place.
00:40:55.500And then the, you know, in terms of the other radio program, that was 2019.
00:41:02.720So, really what happened was the tweet went out.
00:41:05.620A Finnish prosecutor decided to launch with the police a full-bore investigation into every public statement that Pivey had made during the course of a nearly 30-year political career.
00:41:16.720This, Pivey is so well-known in Finland as serving her country in a variety of areas.
00:41:24.720Again, serving as a part of parliament for 30 years.
00:41:28.440She's a doctor, and she's a pastor's wife.
00:41:31.960So, it would be only appropriate that she would speak out on this issue.
00:41:36.640And whether you agree with her or not, she has the right to be able to express her beliefs.
00:41:41.400So, Pivey, what has happened to your reputation?
00:41:46.540Have you faced a new election since all of this has been going on?
00:43:06.720There was a finding of not guilty in the trial court level, and we were privileged to support that legal defense.
00:43:12.800But, unlike the U.S. system, when you are found not guilty in Finland of a crime, the prosecutor can choose to appeal that to the next level.
00:43:22.900And so, again, with just a vicious prosecution designed to have, I think, a chilling effect to send a message to Finnish citizens,
00:43:32.000if we can get Pivey, we can get any one of you, then they appealed it, and we won, again, in a unanimous decision with multiple judges.
00:43:44.420And now the prosecution has, again, asked the Finnish Supreme Court to hear the case one more time,
00:43:52.340and that would be the equivalent of asking our U.S. Supreme Court to hear a case.
00:43:57.400So, A, if she wins again, that's no guarantee they'll stop.
00:44:05.140I mean, you know, here in the United States, we're seeing it.
00:44:08.160Show me the person, I'll show you the crime, and they're going to take you out if they want to take you out, or they're going to try.
00:44:16.460With the Supreme Court, because they don't have the First Amendment, which we have, and really nobody's listening to it right now, but at least we have it.
00:44:25.260They don't have First Amendment right.
00:44:32.360Well, the freedom of expression and speech is a fundamental right that is guaranteed by every major human rights treaty.
00:44:38.820And there are also guarantees in Finnish law to free expression.
00:44:43.740And I think it's important for Americans to understand there are not any magic words in our First Amendment.
00:44:49.980Many Western democracies have language in their constitutions and in international treaties to protect these rights, because we know they're fundamental rights.
00:48:50.420Christian, I urge everybody in my listening audience, this is a cause you can get behind that will make a difference because it's making a difference all around the world.
00:49:02.880ADF makes, I mean, they're involved in so much and it's all about freedom of speech and religion.