The Glenn Beck Program - Best of The Program ｜ Guests： Sen. Tom Cotton, Inaya Folarin Iman, & Andrew McCarthy

00:00:00.000 welcome to the program it is uh time for the podcast we have senator tom cotton on uh he of

00:00:06.200 course is the uh guy who got his op-ed pulled from the new york times and the guy who manages

00:00:14.080 the op-ed section fired because he said something that 60 percent of americans agree with terrible

00:00:19.580 terrible idea the backlash we go over with him also we talked to rafael manguel he's a guy from

00:00:25.180 the manhattan institute who is really all over the numbers uh when it comes to policing in this

00:00:31.000 country is it true that black people are being constantly targeted by white officers we get into

00:00:36.280 the numbers there plus andrew mccarthy joins us to tell us about the floyd charges uh on um whether

00:00:43.160 it's whether murder is the right way to go whether it should be some other charge real skepticism on

00:00:48.120 how they're handling this case in minneapolis and we'll get into this plus we'll find out why

00:00:53.540 calling the police in the middle of the night if you have a break-in is a showing of your white

00:00:59.780 privilege and it just shows how privileged you are plus joe biden can't get through yet another

00:01:06.020 simple sentence it's all on today's podcast go to blaze tv.com slash glenn use the promo code glenn

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00:01:42.880 feel like it here's the podcast you're listening to the best of the glenn beck program

00:01:54.780 this is the glenn beck program i cannot believe we have this guy on just based on his last name

00:02:05.140 cotton what does that make you think of you think anyway uh we have uh we have uh senator tom

00:02:14.780 cotton on with us now who has said just things that should not be said at the new york times things

00:02:21.060 that uh well uh i think most people agree with but you can't say those things anymore senator welcome

00:02:28.580 how are you hey glenn hey glenn good to be on with you so as senator i have to tell you

00:02:35.080 the world has gone insane the left the uh the media i heard the new york times today talking about

00:02:45.140 how having a serious conversation with somebody about well so what happens when you get rid of

00:02:50.700 the police in minnesota well you know we don't know exactly yet but we're going to work it out and

00:02:55.320 it's going to be great i mean we're talking about major u.s cities just saying i'm done with the police

00:03:02.280 this is nuts glenn this is this is what happens when you have a newsroom like the new york times

00:03:09.300 apparently does or or a city uh like minneapolis and its mayor that are run by people who think

00:03:15.000 the real world is a social justice seminar on a college campus right um i can tell you exactly right

00:03:21.520 i can tell you what happens when you don't have the police you have anarchy i mean you literally have

00:03:27.760 anarchy because there is no common authority to both enforce the law and be constrained by the law

00:03:35.040 that's what will happen in minnesota or in some of these other major cities where the democratic

00:03:40.280 mayors and city councils are talking about slashing police budgets like in los angeles and new york

00:03:45.360 the police are what stand between civilization and anarchy and we need police departments that are

00:03:53.660 well funded well resourced well trained so i cannot believe wait a minute i cannot believe we're having

00:04:01.620 this conversation you don't have to tell me or anybody in this audience you know i'm just listening

00:04:06.300 to you saying you know police departments are important or well of course they are of course they

00:04:13.140 are i just can't believe that we are here at this point um what uh but go ahead look look glenn at what

00:04:21.560 happened with new york times so as you said the new york times is in total meltdown uh and it has

00:04:27.680 suffered an internal collapse because its senior leaders decided to publish an opinion from a republican

00:04:36.000 senator that is shared by 58 of the american people but apparently they view that as beyond the pale

00:04:43.360 in the woke newsroom now i would say that the senior leaders cravenly surrendered to the woke

00:04:51.300 mob at the new york times because they publish on wednesday of last week they published my op-ed on thursday

00:04:56.460 they publicly defended it uh on friday they renounced it uh after the mob demanded that and then on sunday

00:05:04.320 the owner of the new york times fired the editorial page editor i would say that he surrendered to the

00:05:10.280 woke mob but let's remember this guy is a woke child himself

00:05:14.820 they're eating their own i mean senator a lot of people are getting very upset right now a lot of

00:05:22.620 people on the right they're getting upset and they're like this is gonna stop i'm actually ready

00:05:27.100 to grab a bowl of popcorn i'm interested in just watching them just devour themselves it's phenomenal

00:05:33.740 what is happening and i don't think that there is you know watching nancy pelosi

00:05:38.240 do the stunt she did yesterday is hysterical i mean yeah hysterical so glenn that the you know the

00:05:48.440 new york times is is making a fool of themselves from ag salzberger all the way down to their you

00:05:54.080 know young interns who were demanding heads on pikes uh because uh their editorial page editor had

00:06:00.140 the audacity to publish an opinion with which they disagreed although 58 of americans agreed with it

00:06:05.260 um and people are laughing at them uh reporters from other newspapers producers from television

00:06:11.060 shows or even reporters at the new york times recognize that the new york times has become a

00:06:16.560 laughing stock and exposed itself for what it is a far left-wing propaganda outfit

00:06:22.680 i it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people um so one of the things they had a problem with

00:06:30.560 glenn look at the the the replacement uh of the editorial page editor just take a look at her

00:06:36.680 twitter feed but in the meantime look at the note she sent out uh to her uh workers just a couple days

00:06:44.000 ago she said she said that if you see anything at all anything that offends you or that concerns you

00:06:49.260 uh then just send me a text or email right away i mean she is telling grown-ups people who should

00:06:55.460 recognize they're not in a college campus they're not in a social justice seminar that they're they

00:07:00.500 get trigger warnings at work so they they're not offended by microaggressions i mean this really

00:07:05.520 is the language of campus children brought to the workforce when grown-ups should be able to say

00:07:10.340 look you're not in a social justice seminar anymore you are in the real world and when you're

00:07:15.280 confronted with an opinion with which you disagree the proper answer is to refute it with better

00:07:21.120 arguments in return it's not to curl up in the fetal position demand trigger warnings and say that the

00:07:28.280 bad people that publish this opinion should be fired and if you don't like it you can quit

00:07:31.940 so tell me they said that that one of the problems is they they had a real problem with your depiction

00:07:38.240 which was completely inaccurate of the role of antifa in the protests tom tom tom tom do you have any

00:07:47.960 evidence at all that antifa is playing any role in this well i'll just say the the attorney general

00:07:55.360 has repeatedly pointed this out and i don't know many peaceful protesters and demonstrators who take

00:08:00.400 crowbars with them to marches i don't think stacks of bricks get into the street by themselves

00:08:06.120 of course there were agitators and extremists who hijacked and infiltrated protected first amendment

00:08:14.320 protests for their own purposes that was happening the weekend after last and that's why you saw so much

00:08:20.200 violence on the streets in places like minneapolis and new york and washington dc now since the

00:08:25.680 president you know demanded that the national guard be on the scene in washington dc employed a lot of

00:08:31.460 specialized law enforcement units that are present around the seat of our national government since

00:08:36.140 some democratic governors like uh tim waltz in minnesota recognized that he had no choice but to

00:08:40.580 call out the national guard that violence diminished uh significantly over the course of last week to the

00:08:45.680 point where over this past weekend it was almost all just protests and demonstrations and that's

00:08:51.020 because those agitators and extremists realized that the authorities were now onto their techniques

00:08:55.800 and that they faced the risk of pushback from the police and ultimately arrest and charges

00:09:00.280 so i saw an interview with um attorney general barr and he said they they asked him why why haven't you

00:09:07.160 made a single arrest yet of antifa if you know that they were involved and he said something pretty

00:09:14.080 shocking at least to me he said because we're tracking their funding they're very well funded right now

00:09:21.740 he's not going after the guys on the streets he's going after the leadership he's going after the

00:09:27.760 most likely the white uh anti-capitalist socialists uh around the world that have tons of money

00:09:37.660 that are funding these things that's going to be a bombshell if he hits that because there will be

00:09:43.960 all kinds of connections to people we know um that's glenn uh that's the right way to approach

00:09:53.440 an organ a radical organization like antifa i'll say that i don't want to get too far into the details

00:09:58.840 of what may or may not be um investigated and what techniques our federal government is using

00:10:05.320 but there's a long history of our federal government trying to um identify informants um within

00:10:12.920 criminal organizations and conspiracies to roll them up and end up not just getting the put soldiers

00:10:19.620 out on the street but all the way up to the kingpins and the funders that was how a u.s grant took down

00:10:27.400 the original uh version of the kkk in the 1870s that's how we took down the mob in the 50s and 60s and

00:10:35.640 70s uh drug gangs in the 80s and 90s terrorist organizations over the last 20 years um the

00:10:42.420 federal government has has a long record of rolling up large organizations through careful investigative

00:10:48.920 work and the use of informants and intelligence and that's what we should be doing at antifa right now

00:10:53.600 so the senator um the um if if you see how the soviet union uh after world war ii uh flipped uh

00:11:05.820 czechoslovakia and hungary and everything else they did it uh without a shot being fired and it really

00:11:11.740 is the bottom-up top-down inside-out thing you put communists in the government in a deep state if you

00:11:19.560 will then you fund and you you support rioters on the streets the people rise up and say the

00:11:26.880 government's got to do something and that deep state controlled government comes down and you lose your

00:11:33.340 country and you lose your freedom they did it over and over and over again and i believe it's exactly

00:11:38.740 what is happening here in the united states um how are we doing on the investigation into the deep state

00:11:45.980 and all of the people that are that were responsible for the russia collusion garbage and and ratting

00:11:53.680 out and and and finding these people that are are working against freedom in america in our own

00:12:01.380 government um well we're moving forward a little bit more slowly than i would like glenn but it is

00:12:07.200 moving forward uh in part because we lived through two plus years of the muller investigation even though i

00:12:13.180 think it's now clear that the fbi knew from the earliest days even before bob muller was appointed

00:12:18.160 as a special counsel that the still dossier was full of garbage probably full of russian intelligent

00:12:23.540 disinformation um and that there was no collusion um whatever efforts russia undertook on its own there

00:12:30.480 was no collusion with the trump campaign um i commend the attorney general um and the u.s attorney in

00:12:37.540 washington for dropping the charges against mike flynn they shouldn't have been brought to begin with and

00:12:42.120 that was long overdue uh we've seen other reports for instance from the inspector general and the

00:12:46.980 department of justice about how the senior fbi leaders abused their authority in 2016 and 2017

00:12:51.760 of course john durham is continuing to investigate the entire origins uh of the uh russia collusion

00:12:59.780 hoax and i expect that'll be announced well before the election and of course lindy graham the senate

00:13:05.200 has begun a series of hearings um that will end up calling in uh some of the central players involved

00:13:11.420 in those decisions like jim comey and andy mccabe peter struck and lisa page now nearly all of them

00:13:17.280 msnbc or cnn contributors yeah um the you know the the president's poll numbers you know depending on who

00:13:27.980 you uh look at and i don't believe them at this point and i don't i can't imagine uh america going for

00:13:35.880 a group of people that are supporting what's happening on the streets but you know whatever

00:13:42.560 america is a different place now i guess um but this is important for these things to be

00:13:48.920 uh cleared up before the the president leaves office um we we we would have really dangerous people

00:13:59.540 coming in uh and if the american people don't see some arrests and don't uh we're not cleaning

00:14:06.660 things up i i worry what's coming next well that's that's one reason why i'm confident uh glenn that

00:14:13.880 these investigations will reach their natural conclusion um before january or even before the

00:14:19.940 election um the attorney general recognizes um that this is a closely divided country when it comes to

00:14:25.540 electoral politics you know we had a split decision in 2018 with democrats winning the house and

00:14:30.620 republicans winning the senate i think this will be a closely contested election as well

00:14:34.500 it's important though that electoral politics whoever win the election not get in the way not

00:14:40.020 get in the way of uncovering the truth about what is perhaps the biggest political scandal in our

00:14:45.740 country's history which is the obama administration's efforts to disrupt the peaceful transition of power

00:14:51.780 and use the organs of law enforcement against its political opponents so one last thing because you

00:14:59.860 were on the coronavirus early uh and uh there's a lot of people now that look at what's happening

00:15:07.840 with the medical community coming out and saying well racism is a much worse disease than coronavirus so

00:15:13.600 you can go protest these mayors and these governors that were arresting people that said that people who

00:15:20.740 were protesting the shutdown were irresponsible going to kill everybody's grandmother they were

00:15:26.920 anarchists etc etc those people are now marching in the streets the the coronavirus uh experts are

00:15:36.780 are really endorsing going ahead and and uh rioting or or at least marching in the streets and i think

00:15:43.760 there's a lot of people that say wait a minute we destroyed our economy for what did you people

00:15:50.280 even believe this ever well glenn i hope and i pray that we will not see a surge in coronavirus

00:15:59.100 cases and ultimately deaths because of the large-scale protests and demonstrations over the last couple

00:16:04.640 weeks um we'll know in the in the weeks ahead i hope that's not the case if it's not then that

00:16:09.300 might give us even more confidence to get the rest of our economy back up and open again however i think

00:16:16.000 it's obvious that just de facto the lockdowns are now in effect over it's going to be very hard for

00:16:22.720 any governor or mayor to tell uh his or her people you've got to stay at home you can't earn a living

00:16:28.240 you can't open your business you can't take your kids to a park you can't go worship in church

00:16:32.780 um after they've seen these very same mayors and governors not just permit but encourage and

00:16:39.520 celebrate protests and demonstrations with people marching in the streets shoulder to shoulder by the

00:16:44.480 thousands um i would also suspect that to the extent those governors and mayors try to enforce those

00:16:50.220 lockdowns you know against say churches holding services that they're going to face lawsuits and

00:16:55.460 those lawsuits are apt to be successful i mean it can't be the case that we condone first amendment

00:17:01.340 activity by the thousands in our streets but we prohibit first minute activity by the dozens in our

00:17:07.600 churches yep senator tom cotton thanks for uh being on father's day is getting closer have you been

00:17:14.240 hinting uh about gifts at all or thinking about you know what to give to dad why not do a father's

00:17:20.080 day up in style and get a rec tech grill we as a family are cooking a lot on our rec tech at my house

00:17:26.040 i've been thrilled with it ever since i got one it's sturdy it's sleek it's built like a tank

00:17:30.580 it's smart grilling technology because i am the dumbest griller alive i have i'm i'm approaching

00:17:37.440 master griller i used to burn everything and on top of that i can control it from an app you don't

00:17:43.700 have to get off the couch to start it up and get it ready no doubt about it it's rec tech grills

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00:18:06.020 grills.com slash back rec tech grills with an s.com slash back anaya fulrin amon is a writer in the

00:18:15.360 uk freelance writer she is also uh somebody who uh stood in december 2019 the uk general election

00:18:23.780 for the brexit party in leeds northeast she is uh speaking out now in the uk basically asking the

00:18:32.480 same thing many of us are asking is this really about racism and police brutality or is there

00:18:38.500 something else going on um she is she was born in 96 holy cow she was born in 1996 in london she is of

00:18:48.260 yoruba heritage she's uh was raised in a british nigerian single parent household welcome to the

00:18:56.220 program how are you thank you for having me i'm very very good thank you so um many people call you

00:19:04.500 the uh the candace owens of the uk i've heard that bantied around um tell me tell me your take on what

00:19:13.820 i don't know if you take that as a good thing or a bad thing but we mean it as a good thing tell me

00:19:18.540 about what you're feeling positively good uh on what's happening in in europe they uh in the uk

00:19:27.580 they've just defaced the guy who fought against fascism better than anybody else in the world

00:19:33.620 winston churchill they just defaced a statue of abraham lincoln what's going on in the uk

00:19:39.860 yeah i mean first and foremost i want to say that i think a lot of people for the past

00:19:45.640 kind of few months and even years in particular have been worried about kind of the rise of china

00:19:50.400 and that what implications that has for kind of um international politics but i think that

00:19:55.140 what we've seen in the last week we can be in no doubt of american cultural hegemony

00:20:00.780 and how kind of american racial culture wars has now been kind of exported um globally now you know

00:20:08.220 i love america i think it's a fantastic country but i have actually been surprised

00:20:11.880 to see thousands and thousands of people in britain and central london putting their hands up saying

00:20:17.660 hands up don't shoot to a one of the most demilitarized police forces um in the world which

00:20:23.660 is the british police force you don't you don't they don't have guns how can they shoot they don't

00:20:29.680 have guns yeah they don't have guns so i think what we've seen is a kind of um attempt to create this

00:20:36.740 kind of homogenized narrative about what it means to be black in the world i think and it's been

00:20:41.740 one that has been essentialized to be one of kind of racism oppression victimization irrespective of

00:20:48.940 the kind of nuances and complexities of specific countries i think absolutely you know racism exists

00:20:54.600 that needs to be combated but in response to the george floyd killing for the first time and you

00:21:00.540 know i think years there was unity across the political spectrum pretty much internationally

00:21:05.820 saying that this was um you know a wrong thing and you know the man's now been charged and you

00:21:12.820 know people can debate about what charge um that should be but at the end of the day that's on our

00:21:17.620 way to justice that's a very positive thing and so what has now transpired to me is something very

00:21:23.680 very very different we are seeing what looks like to me a kind of concerted effort to paint western

00:21:30.480 society at large as this kind of bastion of evil and hate and kind of racism and i think it's sending

00:21:37.860 a really toxic and demoralizing message to a generation of young people who haven't had it so

00:21:44.460 better in terms of you know racial equality progress there's much more to be done but the

00:21:49.500 narrative that is being told is completely divorced from reality and i think it's got much darker

00:21:55.320 intentions and kind of consequences unless we seriously grapple with what is so our culture

00:22:01.820 can you tell me what you think because i agree with you and you know everything that you're saying

00:22:08.680 here leads me to the things that we have been investigating for a long time uh at least on on

00:22:16.660 my program and that is this concerted effort by a radical leftist uh group of of organizations and

00:22:27.060 people that want to tear down the western world and capitalism do you believe that that's what you're

00:22:35.340 seeing over in the uk as well no absolutely because you know it's something that's not just sparked

00:22:43.120 solely out of the protest we've seen it um in terms of the education system even in the universities i

00:22:49.040 think there's a similar thing that's happened in america in terms of this kind of campus free speech

00:22:53.300 wars we've seen it with the gender debate um and also in the uk we saw it up until the election

00:22:58.380 until brexit which is essentially overthrowing um the democratic system um in order to kind of push

00:23:04.620 forward a certain agenda and i think i don't want to make too many connections but i do think it's all

00:23:09.020 part of the same underlying ideology that has a deep um bitiful resentment kind of western society

00:23:15.560 and and sees um you know many of these political upheavals as an opportunity opportunity to exploit

00:23:22.260 it to kind of push forward a very radical left agenda and i i think it's i think it's really

00:23:27.720 worrying i think at least in the uk we have a situation where kind of the conservative party

00:23:33.000 won the election and a lot of us thought that that was a positive thing in terms of pushing back

00:23:39.000 against this but the left um i think again it's similar in america have right now a monopoly on

00:23:44.860 culture and they have very significant um sways in terms of the media and in terms of changing that

00:23:51.600 narrative and reclaiming a kind of more positive and realistic representation of the west and kind

00:23:56.820 of speaking to the young people that this picture is not actually the reality is something that is

00:24:01.280 still um you know there's a lot more work to be done there so it is really concerning

00:24:06.540 so um i've recently uh met the um the founders and the and the heads of an organization turning point

00:24:17.620 uh uk um and i've been i've been really excited to see the the ideas of freedom start to take root

00:24:29.440 uh in a younger generation as well but it's it's almost like it's a cute little effort overseas

00:24:36.200 because you don't have the you don't have our constitution and bill of rights and quite

00:24:41.620 honestly we don't either right now but um so it's a different look at at liberty and it's kind of a

00:24:48.140 hard sell in some ways how are you seeing this the pushback on this globalist marxist kind of uh

00:24:57.000 ideology um is there uh growing pushback on that at all well you know you know even in britain we

00:25:07.000 don't obviously as you mentioned have a written constitution but we have a really strong and rich

00:25:11.780 tradition of liberty in terms of um you know john stuart mill and kind of the bill of rights and the

00:25:16.500 magna carta very rich and kind of amazing tradition there and i think a lot of that again has kind of

00:25:21.660 been um brushed to the side and downplayed in this um swell of cultural self-loathing which is really

00:25:27.560 um encapsulated many of the left in particular but a lot in the west but i think in terms of the

00:25:33.040 pushback i think um it is something that's growing so i'm part of an organization in the uk called the

00:25:38.640 free speech union and we've now been really proactive in terms of trying to defend people that are even

00:25:43.740 facing um you know losing their job and their positions to simple things that they've said i mean

00:25:48.600 even recently in the uk it's quite horrifying um a gentleman a radio presenter was uh was kind of

00:25:56.900 is being investigated for criticizing black lives matter so you know it is a really really serious

00:26:02.220 thing and obviously you know there's a whole situation in terms of the new york times in america

00:26:05.740 over there so the pushback is um there but it definitely needs to be much stronger much more

00:26:12.740 forthright i mean if we look at the lockdown you know in britain i've been quite surprised that how

00:26:17.200 there wasn't um that much pushback in terms of the biggest peacetime and removal of our liberties and

00:26:24.240 and so i think that a lot of people have felt quite um felt kind of exhausted by the constant

00:26:31.280 barrage of negativity but i think that what we've seen now something feels different to me in the uk

00:26:37.220 you know statues as you mentioned of winston churchill being brought down historic cultural

00:26:42.460 monuments being defamed and you know violence against the police and all of these really kind

00:26:48.120 of significant things i think a lot of people are now waking up and saying that we cannot let this

00:26:53.260 go on or this is really going to spiral um into something much much darker than it already is

00:26:58.980 so how does the america how does the united states of america and be you know be honest um

00:27:04.540 i'm not asking for a you know a nice fluffy answer here how does the united states of america

00:27:10.980 look to those in great britain who may have looked on us favorably in the past what do you what do you

00:27:18.280 does the average person think about what's happening over here i think the average person is

00:27:27.400 um probably sees a lot of parallels um but it depends on the perspective so i think what i found is that

00:27:34.440 a lot of people that were in favor of brexit which was actually obviously the majority of the country

00:27:38.440 in a democratic vote had a lot of sympathies um with trump um not necessarily in terms of you know

00:27:45.360 the particular policies he was advocating but in terms of what he represented in regards to um a kind

00:27:51.980 of figure that is taking on the establishment taking on um these kinds of institutions that have been so

00:27:58.420 entrenched but not really um dealing with the kind of issues that are plaguing so many people

00:28:03.720 and so i think a lot of people um in britain that supported brexit have been very sympathetic

00:28:08.660 towards that and do see parallels in terms of the way in which you know the for example in america

00:28:13.860 particularly the kind of radical left weaponized impeachment to try and in some ways you know

00:28:19.100 subvert democracy um the way that many people particularly on the radical left in america were

00:28:23.960 the most uh servant in regards to the lockdown and things like that so i think there are quite similar

00:28:30.340 parallels but um i think um similar with here it really depends on who you speak speak to and i

00:28:36.980 think unfortunately i think particularly the mainstream media in the uk um don't always paint

00:28:41.800 america um with the most positive deception but i think there's a great number of people that do see

00:28:46.720 through it um and kind of see that um a lot of the time that the way that the media represent

00:28:52.240 political events in america and also in britain is not actually

00:28:55.220 the full scope of what is happening i will tell you um that i think we look at great britain many

00:29:02.300 of us look at great britain in the same exact way we you know why we didn't understand all the ins and

00:29:07.500 outs of uh brexit we were with you because it it seemed as though you were experiencing the same

00:29:13.080 thing with a government that had just become abusive to the people doesn't matter what we say

00:29:19.020 they just do whatever they want anyway it's that that that deep state is what it's being called over here

00:29:24.000 uh and it is it's happening all over the western world and it's really got to stop it's got to

00:29:30.360 stop um you know and i go ahead no i was just gonna say well there's a there's an election

00:29:37.940 obviously coming up in in november and there was in america and obviously in britain there was in

00:29:42.440 december so i think it's definitely through democracy and through arguments that we need to push back and

00:29:47.560 not all succumb to the kind of tactics of the radical left

00:29:50.840 so great talking to you all the best of luck over in uh london and um and stay free god bless

00:29:59.600 thank you thank you for having me

00:30:01.440 the best of the glenn beck program

00:30:05.920 andy mccarthy a contributing editor national review senior fellow for the national review institute

00:30:16.100 uh he has been uh on with us several times good friend of the program uh andy you wrote a great

00:30:25.080 piece for the national review the new floyd murder charges will be tough to prove and may imperil good

00:30:31.080 cops uh as i'm reading it what is happening with uh the prosecution seems nuts seems nuts

00:30:39.580 yeah glenn thanks so much for having me and calling attention to this i you know the case is kind of

00:30:47.440 weirdly overcharged and undercharged at this point and i keep having a kind of police myself because i have

00:30:56.080 the same cynicism about keith ellison uh as i gather you do and i need to i i need to kind of

00:31:06.660 like try to put that in a box and just look at this in a in a clinical way rather than freighting

00:31:11.660 it too much with what i think of him so for what it's worth you know on chauvin who's the main guy

00:31:18.960 of course uh i think the second degree charge the second degree murder charge that he that ellison put in

00:31:27.620 which was sort of designed at least politically to say that they had ratcheted up the charges

00:31:33.340 is a reach but it's not an impossible reach and i the thing i think we have to keep in mind

00:31:41.300 is that the way they do their charges and and let's remember now we have not seen an indictment yet so

00:31:47.640 far these guys have only been charged in complaints so we don't know what the final charges are going to

00:31:52.560 look like but if they look like this there'll be three different theories of murder and just common

00:31:59.220 sense says to me that a jury watching that last indefensible eight minutes is going to convict this

00:32:08.100 guy of something so to me my complaint and my worry about the second degree charge which is the felony

00:32:16.640 murder theory under which what he's basically saying is that when the cops first put hands on this guy

00:32:24.480 and as that whole situation evolved that was an assault and the and mr floyd later died so that's

00:32:33.300 the felony murder theory the felony is a third degree assault under minnesota law i think from a

00:32:39.420 policy standpoint that's a really dumb thing to do because it puts cops on the street good cops

00:32:45.600 in fear of the idea that if they do the things you have to do in order to do effective policing like

00:32:51.400 use superior force um not egregious force or excessive force but you know superior force

00:32:57.680 against someone who's uh resisting arrest you have to now worry that you could be charged

00:33:03.440 with a felony but that doesn't mean that you know juries don't do policy they do the one case with the one

00:33:10.820 sure defendant one victim i could see the jury convicting on that theory i think it's more likely

00:33:18.180 they convict on his second theory which is depraved indifference because i think that's

00:33:22.860 that's a good match for what their evidence is that that's basically i i yeah i i have to tell you

00:33:31.340 andy i i think that is where this whole thing meets when i watched that it didn't seem like i'm out to

00:33:38.840 murder a guy it looked like i don't really care in i mean really truly uh depraved in diff indifference

00:33:47.680 is uh what it appeared to be right that's what i think one now i know people who practice law in

00:33:56.560 minnesota who tell me that there's some troublesome case law with that and i know that that as a

00:34:03.880 prosecutor you have to worry about that stuff when we for what it's worth i mean when we indicted the

00:34:09.720 blind shake a million years ago there was some bad law in our circuit on attempted bombings and

00:34:16.260 some other stuff that we had to worry about but we really felt like and i think they the prosecutors

00:34:21.520 here should feel like their evidence is so strong in terms of the recklessness and depravity of that

00:34:27.800 i i just cannot see a jury acquitting on that okay so that's that's good news right because he would go to

00:34:36.400 jail and but would that be the second is is depraved uh indifference part of the murder count of of

00:34:46.020 second degree murder it's third degree murder and and you know glenn i think people are getting too

00:34:51.080 hung up on you know they've watched too many episodes of dragnet or hawaii 50 or something you

00:34:56.120 know if it's not book a murder one that you know people are uh right people don't think it's serious

00:35:01.540 enough because it doesn't sound serious enough murder three is murder and i think if this guy

00:35:06.280 gets convicted of murder no one's going to remember that it was third degree murder it's a murder

00:35:11.160 choice correct and sometimes and at i was just going to say sometimes categorically you know you go first

00:35:18.260 second third because of seriousness sometimes it's just that the conduct is so different they have to

00:35:23.600 put it in a different section of the statute it's not necessarily a reflection that it's not as

00:35:28.660 serious as second degree all right and uh how much of a sentence does that usually get how much

00:35:36.080 how much time would this guy spend behind bars up to 25 years okay now the other three degree would

00:35:45.200 be up to 40 just so you know so that's i mean that's the difference we're talking about okay so the

00:35:51.060 the other three aiding and abetting and in your article you talk about how this one you have to run

00:35:59.440 through hoops because uh they're also charged are they not also charged with second degree

00:36:05.620 they're charged with aiding and abetting both second degree and manslaughter and i think theoretically

00:36:13.540 this is where you worry about ellison being more of a you know a sort of a radical ideologue than a

00:36:19.760 technical lawyer um negligence manslaughter in minnesota is negligent homicide and as we all know

00:36:29.120 negligence means something happens that nobody intended right you're careless in something that

00:36:34.780 you didn't foresee but you should have that's terrible happens you're careless because it's a

00:36:39.500 risk and a guy dies aiding and abetting liability means that the accomplice who's the aider and a better

00:36:46.300 has to understand what the principal is trying to accomplish and then joined himself and did

00:36:53.100 something active to bring it about well no one tries to accomplish negligence um so i have a problem

00:37:00.060 i have a problem with the theory of aiding and abetting being matched up with negligence but i think he

00:37:05.360 would have been fine and he would still be fine when they ultimately indict if he indicts them not as

00:37:11.180 aiders and abetters but as principals because at least the two guys who were holding floyd down along with

00:37:17.720 chauvin they had to know what they were doing was was careless and wrong if not depraved and i think you

00:37:26.300 could get you could convict them just as people who committed manslaughter rather than trying to go through

00:37:33.500 the mental hoops of did they understand what chauvin was trying to accomplish and how did they try to join you know

00:37:39.100 i mean no that that kind of mental gymnastics is i think over complicating which should be a pretty

00:37:45.240 straightforward question yeah and and how do you prove that any of them were trying to accomplish

00:37:52.800 killing this guy oh i i think that's a great point because the evidence that's in the complaint suggests

00:37:59.460 the contrary you know these bird brains didn't do what they should have done to stop this from

00:38:05.660 happening but at least one of them says to chauvin you know don't don't you think we ought to roll

00:38:09.640 this guy over on his shoulder or you know i'm a little bit worried that he's going to go into

00:38:13.160 uh you know various forms of medical distress and chauvin who's the 19 year veteran and is the senior

00:38:19.860 guy out there says no no no that's why we're leaving him on his uh stomach as he continued to

00:38:25.260 you know sit on the guy's neck right so so that guy's going to be able to say i wasn't trying to kill

00:38:31.400 the guy you know when you're trying to kill the guy you think you don't ask do you think he's doing

00:38:35.460 okay do you think we should roll him over um i don't mean right side of it i just i just you know

00:38:41.000 the defense lawyers are going to have a field day with that sort of stuff but i think if you charge

00:38:46.260 them with this is negligent homicide the prosecutor's position is look you can't continue to sit on the

00:38:55.540 guy's back with somebody sitting on his neck two minutes after he has no pulse you know even if you

00:39:03.760 didn't have the worst of intentions that's careless that's manslaughter that's what we have manslaughter

00:39:08.080 for um and and stop worrying you know don't don't charge the case in a way where you have to prove

00:39:15.420 what these guys must have thought chauvin was trying to accomplish

00:39:19.320 i've been on a jury before uh andrew and uh we wanted to uh send this guy away for a very long

00:39:31.240 time all of us knew he did it most of us knew he did it um and and just had a feeling that we were

00:39:39.480 going to release this guy out into the wilderness but we could not agree that the charge was the right

00:39:47.440 charge and we're like that's not that's not right and you know we kind of even danced around well

00:39:54.940 shouldn't we just give it to him anyway because he's going to get out and do it no no uh and it's

00:40:02.380 a very different thing in a jury room if they screw this up and charge them i don't know if this is

00:40:09.500 unique with jurors but that's that was my experience we didn't go in there we went in there

00:40:15.700 thinking this is a very bad guy but it doesn't match what they're telling us to do and they're

00:40:22.900 telling us specifically it's got to be x y and z well that doesn't fit yeah glenn that's my experience

00:40:30.660 with the jury system 20 years of being a a trial lawyer or all as a prosecutor um juries are really

00:40:38.240 very as a general matter you can always find outliers but they're very conscientious

00:40:44.980 they follow the evidence closely they really do do what the courts tell them to do uh as a general

00:40:52.400 matter and they don't convict people even though the evidence can be horrifying if it doesn't match

00:40:58.760 up what the judge tells them has to be proved so you're you're you're quite right to be concerned

00:41:05.180 about how this case gets charged one last question uh is there anything that the feds can do just in

00:41:12.140 case i mean i know i'm very very um you know i'm just pessimistic when it comes to keith ellison and

00:41:19.740 i don't i don't trust him uh and uh it would be very very good for a radical to have this just you

00:41:27.560 know in the in the last moment slip away and then they walk free is there anything that the feds can

00:41:33.960 be doing at the same time so god forbid they screw it up at the state level it's not a walk away he's

00:41:41.800 free yes they are conducting a civil rights investigation now that's a that's a tougher

00:41:49.840 proof than a straightforward state murder prosecution because you have to prove an intent basically to

00:41:57.520 discriminate and to deprive somebody of their constitutional rights and their and their legal

00:42:03.820 rights uh so it's a tougher case to prove but they would get if they if they think they can make that

00:42:09.460 they can get a second bite at the apple because we have uh what's known as the dual sovereignty doctrine

00:42:15.880 it's an exception to double jeopardy and it basically means the feds and the state are different sovereigns

00:42:21.600 so just because you get acquitted in the state does the state can't prosecute you again but the feds could

00:42:26.800 okay andrew thank you so much appreciate andrew mccarthy contributing editor to the national

00:42:32.360 review um i find it really interesting that what i'm worried about is exactly what rfk was worried

00:42:40.400 about just in a different way he was worried about these cases going down and the the prosecutors

00:42:47.980 botching the case and the jury just you know uh doing what they you know want to do because they

00:42:54.580 were all white i'm worried about the same thing he was worried about the guys walking free that did

00:43:00.420 the crime i'm i'm worried about the same thing and i'm worried about the prosecution just for a

00:43:06.120 different reason because i think this guy is a radical and uh god forbid this is true i ain't even

00:43:12.320 saying it but it's just i mean you're telling me crazier things aren't happening now that this thing is

00:43:18.920 overcharged and they they fail on the prosecution and we have a massive massive problem on our hands i hope

00:43:28.040 the federal government is watching this closely

00:43:30.360 you

The Glenn Beck Program - June 09, 2020

Best of The Program ｜ Guests： Sen. Tom Cotton, Inaya Folarin Iman, & Andrew McCarthy ｜ 6⧸9⧸20

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