The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 1 ｜ Tim Ballard ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

00:00:00.140 Hey, welcome to the podcast. Today, you're going to hear an amazing story of somebody you've never heard of in history. Her name is Harriet Jacobs. Her story was really literally erased, but she is one of the most amazing characters in American history.

00:00:16.640 And she made this courageous decision, one right after another, that seemed nuts, but she knew exactly what she was doing. And it's an amazing tale. Also, something that kind of spilled out about, I don't know, halfway through, it kind of flows into a very personal story that I hadn't planned on sharing.

00:00:37.620 It happened over the summer of 2018 and was extraordinarily traumatic for my family. And it's taken me a while to be able to share it. And in this podcast, it just kind of came out. And the reason why is because of Tim Ballard.

00:00:59.040 If you've ever listened to my show, you know who he is, but I don't think you've ever heard him like this. Tim was a government agent. He was in the CIA. Then he worked for Homeland Security, but he was an undercover guy. I didn't even know that he was an agent. I thought he was an author. He's a really good writer.

00:01:16.700 It was about five years ago that he said to me, can I meet with you? And I did. And he pulls out a badge. And I'm like, am I under arrest? And he said, no, I have to tell you who I really am. And the reason why is he wanted to start Operation O-U-R. 0.68

00:01:34.960 We are Operation Underground Railroad, a team of former CIA and military personnel created to rescue traffic children and dismantle these criminal networks.

00:01:46.700 Now, a few years later, after he's really gotten O-U-R running and we play a big role in that, and we're grateful to be a part of it, he's also taken on the role of overseeing the Nazarene Fund, which is saving women and children in the Middle East from slavery and about to go global on that as well.

00:02:09.420 I think you're really going to enjoy today's podcast with Tim Ballard.

00:02:16.700 A couple things have happened.

00:02:30.220 One, and I want to start here, I've learned so much history and seen stories that you don't see anywhere.

00:02:42.620 You don't see anywhere. They're just gone.

00:02:44.900 But there's fragments.

00:02:48.420 And if you start to pull that thread, you start to say, oh my gosh, here it all is.

00:02:53.660 Your book, Slave Stealers, tells the story of somebody I've never even heard of.

00:03:01.020 And it's the most riveting emancipation story, slave story I've ever heard. 0.69

00:03:08.020 Tell me, who is Harriet Jacobs?

00:03:10.780 Harriet Jacobs is my hero.

00:03:14.840 She's my hero.

00:03:16.900 She was one of the greatest, maybe the greatest abolitionists.

00:03:23.180 Her story, she was a slave in Edenton, North Carolina, escaped slavery, but not only liberated herself, but her two children.

00:03:33.000 She was hounded by, I mean, hounded by the worst master you can imagine.

00:03:37.720 You just want to rip this guy's eyeballs out when you're reading her story.

00:03:40.560 But the way she escaped, the way she outsmarted him, and the reason she did it, the motive was love, always love.

00:03:48.940 She wanted to become free so she could help others, her own children.

00:03:52.040 So there's amazing parts of the story.

00:03:54.100 I want to start before she obviously escapes with her children, before she even has children. 1.00

00:04:01.960 She's really young, and she's with, I mean, you describe the family as a good of a slave owner family as you can get. 0.58

00:04:12.660 They still own slaves, but they treat them like people, they teach them how to read, right? 0.57

00:04:20.060 Correct, yeah.

00:04:21.360 And they promise them that they're going to be released, and they are.

00:04:27.020 But it's at the time of the American Revolution, and so there's chaos everywhere.

00:04:31.940 What happens?

00:04:33.100 So the family, these are kind of the forebearers to Harriet.

00:04:38.280 Harriet, their master liberates them, gives them money, and says, get out of here.

00:04:43.840 And they're off to go find their lives, and they're stopped by, you know, again, the Revolutionary War is going, and they're stopping ships.

00:04:52.840 They stop them.

00:04:53.480 They get greedy. 0.98

00:04:55.140 They're black people, so we can say they're slaves, even though they have emancipation papers, and they sell them. 1.00

00:05:00.420 And they parse them out.

00:05:01.280 They divide this family, and they parse them out to different people who purchased them.

00:05:05.940 And Harriet's grandmother ends up in Edenton, North Carolina, owned by the Horniblo family, who is one of the purchasers of human beings.

00:05:14.320 And her grandmother is put up for auction, right?

00:05:19.200 Or her aunt, Molly.

00:05:21.020 Molly's her grandmother.

00:05:22.340 Her grandmother.

00:05:23.080 And she's put up for auction in that town.

00:05:25.580 Yes.

00:05:26.240 But she's so loved by everybody that when her new slave master knows that the town's going to go, they know that she was supposed to be released.

00:05:39.400 Right.

00:05:39.980 And so he says, we're not going to have a public auction, and she demands it.

00:05:44.040 Yes.

00:05:44.680 And so she's standing on the auction block.

00:05:47.400 And the white people of the town, right?

00:05:50.500 Correct.

00:05:50.840 It's the white people in town, they stand up and say, no, she's not a slave. 0.84

00:05:58.660 She's not supposed to be a slave. 1.00

00:06:00.300 She's supposed to be free.

00:06:02.160 And nobody bids on her, except a white woman who bids on her, I think, what was it, $50? 0.94

00:06:09.180 $50, yeah.

00:06:09.820 Which was a lot of money back then.

00:06:11.600 $50.

00:06:13.020 Buys her.

00:06:13.680 Nobody else bids for her.

00:06:15.240 She buys her, takes her right to the courthouse, and fills out the Papers of Emancipation. 1.00

00:06:20.940 Correct.

00:06:22.360 Just that part of the story alone is amazing.

00:06:25.460 Yeah.

00:06:25.860 Here's this town that they're there to buy slaves, buy humans, but they see this one slave, and they're like, no, we can't buy her because she's supposed to be free.

00:06:39.240 Yeah.

00:06:39.580 How do you make of that?

00:06:41.340 It's the strange world of slavery.

00:06:43.260 It's the most complex, most bewildering concept, because it's so unnatural and so wrong, that it creates those kind of complexities.

00:06:54.040 Moments of cognitive dissonance.

00:06:56.560 Right, and we live through those today, through modern-day slavery. 0.56

00:06:59.200 I see those things every day throughout the world, where it's just this bizarre world.

00:07:03.420 Okay, so the daughter or the granddaughter, Harriet, sold to this monster of a family. 0.98

00:07:12.460 The guy is truly a monster, making children with all of the slave women. 1.00

00:07:18.660 And Harriet, in a way, outsmarts him, but in a way also causes trouble, probably not as much trouble as she would have had, because he was raping everybody. 0.99

00:07:33.960 Yeah.

00:07:34.020 But what does she do to get away from him?

00:07:38.240 She does outsmart him. 0.78

00:07:41.180 I mean, that's my favorite part of the story, is how she...

00:07:45.800 At first, she tells the wife.

00:07:47.560 Right.

00:07:47.980 She takes steps.

00:07:49.420 Right. 0.99

00:07:49.540 The first thing she says is, your husband is a predator. 0.98

00:07:53.560 Can you imagine? 0.99

00:07:54.540 Yeah.

00:07:54.700 And this is an unspoken thing.

00:07:56.640 Of course, she sees the babies being born that look like her husband all over, but we don't talk about that.

00:08:00.620 Twelve, right?

00:08:01.120 Yeah, at least twelve that she identified.

00:08:03.920 And she's young.

00:08:04.820 She's 12, 13 years old.

00:08:06.140 Yeah.

00:08:06.520 And she goes to the wife and says, he's preying on me, and I'm not going to let it happen.

00:08:12.740 Help me.

00:08:14.460 And Harriet talks about how slavery makes the wives wretched. 0.99

00:08:18.460 The husband's monsters and the wives wretched. 0.99

00:08:21.000 Because now this wife, what does she do? 1.00

00:08:22.940 She's been called out by a slave. 0.99

00:08:25.280 Her husband's been called out about something you don't talk about.

00:08:28.620 And she's jealous. 0.93

00:08:30.580 She becomes jealous at Harriet, but also so upset at her husband that she won't let her husband be close to Harriet.

00:08:37.400 So her plan worked.

00:08:39.580 But now she's dealing with this jealous wife who... 1.00

00:08:42.580 Is now in trouble.

00:08:44.240 Her husband is in trouble.

00:08:46.160 Yeah.

00:08:46.560 And he makes Harriet pay.

00:08:49.580 But he strangely...

00:08:51.980 Is it his...

00:08:53.440 Is it the fact that he can't get his hands on her that drives him?

00:08:59.780 It's his love of power.

00:09:01.920 Absolutely.

00:09:02.340 I think so, yeah.

00:09:02.940 He cannot...

00:09:04.020 And it makes him want her more.

00:09:05.800 Yeah.

00:09:06.020 She's the only one that will not submit.

00:09:08.880 She will not submit to his lust, his desires.

00:09:13.320 And he cannot handle it.

00:09:15.720 So she falls in love.

00:09:17.380 Yes. 0.97

00:09:18.300 With a free black man. 0.91

00:09:20.620 Yes. 0.57

00:09:20.780 In town.

00:09:21.400 Yeah.

00:09:22.240 After he says...

00:09:25.200 The slave owner.

00:09:26.300 Look, I'm going to make you...

00:09:27.720 You know, I'll make you the mistress of the house. 1.00

00:09:30.080 You're going to be...

00:09:30.940 You're going to...

00:09:31.600 And you don't want for anything.

00:09:33.800 And she's so disgusted by him.

00:09:35.980 She's like, no.

00:09:37.820 Won't be involved with him.

00:09:40.120 He tries kind of romantically, right?

00:09:42.420 To kind of coax her into this.

00:09:43.560 Probably tries everything.

00:09:44.420 Yeah.

00:09:44.680 Yeah. 0.87

00:09:45.100 And then she falls in love with a free black man.

00:09:48.280 And she has another moment that slaves don't have. 0.84

00:09:53.660 Where he's saying, the guy you love is a puppy.

00:09:57.140 He's a dog.

00:09:58.060 He says, well, at least the dog never beat me.

00:10:04.000 Putting him below the dog.

00:10:07.440 Yes.

00:10:08.260 Which enrages him.

00:10:09.900 Yes.

00:10:10.840 And she does this on purpose. 1.00

00:10:12.200 She's brilliant.

00:10:13.820 She's 15.

00:10:14.980 She knows what she's doing.

00:10:17.320 And she's playing...

00:10:18.320 It's psychological warfare.

00:10:19.420 And she does it her whole life to him.

00:10:20.840 I think she puts him in his grave in the end.

00:10:23.500 But he...

00:10:24.880 She says, yeah.

00:10:26.060 She weighs them both in the balance.

00:10:27.500 And he loses.

00:10:28.400 It's like, I choose the puppy over you.

00:10:29.900 Oh, God.

00:10:30.780 And he jumps up.

00:10:32.320 Grabs her.

00:10:33.000 He beats her up. 0.76

00:10:34.100 Throws her down.

00:10:35.240 You know, and he's like, who is this girl?

00:10:38.200 Who are you to talk to me like that?

00:10:39.520 And he says, I'll take you to jail.

00:10:40.640 I can put you in jail.

00:10:41.580 Oh, please.

00:10:42.640 I want to go to jail.

00:10:44.060 And she did.

00:10:45.320 As she proves later when she gets...

00:10:47.360 Where she hides eventually.

00:10:48.960 And he's like, oh, no.

00:10:49.800 She would like to go to jail. 1.00

00:10:51.220 No, you have to stay here.

00:10:52.480 And then he's just...

00:10:53.200 He doesn't know what to do.

00:10:54.020 He's confused.

00:10:55.340 And she's winning this...

00:10:56.980 And she's 15.

00:10:57.800 Yes.

00:10:58.180 And she is outsmarting him every step of the way.

00:11:01.860 So then she realizes...

00:11:04.720 And I can't even imagine what this was like.

00:11:07.260 She realizes that he's never going to let her go.

00:11:11.940 He's never...

00:11:12.460 Her, you know, betrothed says, I'll buy you. 0.99

00:11:19.080 He says, no price.

00:11:20.680 Yeah.

00:11:20.900 No price.

00:11:22.100 Never going to let her go.

00:11:23.960 She knows that that will mean that if they marry, they'll have children which will belong to the slave master.

00:11:32.380 And he'll sell them.

00:11:33.700 Yep.

00:11:33.840 He'll use those kids.

00:11:34.920 Absolutely.

00:11:35.700 And he'll sell them.

00:11:36.960 And she says to her fiancé, you got to go away and never look back.

00:11:44.320 Yeah.

00:11:44.540 But how hard...

00:11:46.400 How hard do you think that must have been?

00:11:50.180 She says that was when the lights went out for her.

00:11:53.840 Her last dream.

00:11:54.840 Her only dream.

00:11:55.720 Her last dream.

00:11:57.360 It's gone.

00:11:59.080 It's gone.

00:12:00.840 That's how old is she now? 1.00

00:12:01.800 17?

00:12:02.320 She's now 17, yeah.

00:12:04.860 At 19, she's got another plan.

00:12:09.640 Oh, yeah. 0.77

00:12:10.320 To beat the slave owner. 0.98

00:12:14.320 Yes.

00:12:15.200 He offers to build her a cabin out in the woods.

00:12:18.460 Be the mistress, be the concubine, yeah. 0.97

00:12:20.780 Yeah.

00:12:21.040 You'll never have to worry about a thing.

00:12:23.220 I'll only come visit you occasionally.

00:12:26.680 And she wants no part of that.

00:12:28.840 And so living next to her grandmother in this same town is a lawyer, a white lawyer.

00:12:36.860 Yes.

00:12:38.520 That she starts flirting with because of why.

00:12:48.300 And she says, you know, she says, look, I'm a moral person.

00:12:51.320 I'm a Christian woman.

00:12:52.100 I believe in God.

00:12:52.980 But this is my only way out.

00:12:54.660 I will never get away from this monster.

00:12:56.960 And she allowed herself, she made a romantic, you know, relationship with Sam Sawyer, who's

00:13:06.340 this bachelor.

00:13:07.240 And a good guy, right?

00:13:08.240 A good guy.

00:13:08.900 He's a young bachelor, wealthy lawyer.

00:13:11.700 Right.

00:13:12.140 Tries to buy her.

00:13:13.280 Tries to suggest, tries to buy her to free her.

00:13:15.560 Yeah.

00:13:15.840 And he won't.

00:13:16.600 And Norcom, James Norcom, he's the master, the town doctor.

00:13:19.100 He won't have nothing to do with it.

00:13:20.660 So she says, okay, I'm going to fall in love with him.

00:13:23.700 And I'm going to have babies with him.

00:13:25.720 And that was intentional because then she would be connected to a powerful person in

00:13:32.120 town, a white man in town.

00:13:34.080 And she'd also be, you know, it's a major slap in the master's face because that's all

00:13:39.940 he wants is to be that, to be the father of her children.

00:13:44.220 And she just wears him down.

00:13:46.680 And she says, I did it for that purpose.

00:13:48.960 I'm wearing this master down until he dies.

00:13:52.000 Whatever I need to do, I'm getting away from him.

00:13:54.240 That was her goal.

00:13:54.960 Well, and so she, she has two children by Sam Sawyer who takes care of the kids financially

00:13:59.640 and, and always trying to buy the kids.

00:14:02.160 Norcom won't have it.

00:14:03.100 He won't sell the kids, but he doesn't know what to do.

00:14:05.020 Now he's, now she's living with grandma who lives next door to Sam Sawyer because James

00:14:09.280 Norcom's wife won't let her live in the house because she's so jealous of him. 0.96

00:14:12.960 Now she's pregnant. 1.00

00:14:14.160 So he's...

00:14:14.560 Can you imagine what her life was like?

00:14:16.140 Oh.

00:14:16.660 I mean, just the complexity alone of...

00:14:21.560 This woman was amazing just up to this point. 0.94

00:14:25.700 Oh yeah.

00:14:26.440 She hasn't even turned 20 yet.

00:14:27.540 Yeah.

00:14:27.900 Yeah.

00:14:28.060 The Nat Turner Rebellion happens.

00:14:40.020 Yeah.

00:14:40.660 If people don't know what that is, what was that rebellion?

00:14:44.620 Nat Turner, he, he was a slave in Virginia and he said, enough is enough.

00:14:49.520 So I'm not going to do this anymore.

00:14:51.540 And he rose up.

00:14:52.880 There's a great movie called Birth of a Nation that came out, I think two years ago, maybe

00:14:56.200 that tells this story and he...

00:14:58.080 Not the original Birth of a Nation.

00:14:59.320 No, no, no, no, definitely not that one.

00:15:01.420 When you said that, I was like, great movie.

00:15:02.880 No, no, no, no, no, not the turn of the century one.

00:15:05.560 Yes, yes.

00:15:05.960 The one that came out two years ago and he, he rises up and he, he starts a rebellion and

00:15:11.220 he starts, they, they, they literally go around and start murdering all the slave owners 0.55

00:15:15.560 and taking their things and eventually it gets, he gets crushed.

00:15:19.820 He gets taken.

00:15:21.480 But he scared the heck out of slave owners.

00:15:24.340 And it was, it started this movement.

00:15:26.420 It started making people realize, well, maybe we can't, you know, we aren't slaves just because

00:15:31.620 that guy says we're slaves.

00:15:32.800 It doesn't mean we are.

00:15:33.740 So it had this empowering kind of movement to it, but it also created negative externalities

00:15:41.840 that no one wanted.

00:15:42.920 The slaves didn't want because it scared the heck out of everybody.

00:15:45.560 Including the neighboring North Carolina where Harriet was living and they came in and they 0.99

00:15:50.380 just, they decided they had to make a, make a, um, a show of this.

00:15:55.280 And they created this, this, um, these rates, they create these, these raiders came in, the

00:16:02.260 militia sanctioned by the state and they started beating and terrorizing and killing and imprisoning 0.98

00:16:08.280 black people, free ones, enslaved ones. 1.00

00:16:11.840 No one was safe. 0.79

00:16:13.200 No one was safe.

00:16:13.780 If they're planting evidence to, as if there were a rebellion, there wasn't one, but to

00:16:18.600 scare everybody.

00:16:19.160 But you, you put a spin on this that I have not heard before and, and it's not your spin.

00:16:27.120 It's from the evidence of Harriet's life.

00:16:29.560 She again was so smart.

00:16:31.520 And I'm not sure I understand exactly how this worked, but the, the, the part that you brought

00:16:39.820 out was that it, it wasn't the intelligent well to do that were on these raids.

00:16:48.300 It was the, it was the, the downtrodden white guy who had been crushed his whole life, had

00:16:55.720 no future in his life.

00:16:57.960 Probably a lot like people who probably joined the Nazi party, you know, or these crazy parties 0.65

00:17:03.820 today who they just feel like nobody's listening to me.

00:17:07.300 Nobody cares.

00:17:08.100 Those are the guys that go in because they're living pretty much the, the same life as a

00:17:17.560 slave, far as what they have and, and how they live. 0.56

00:17:23.560 And this is the way for them to feel superior to somebody.

00:17:27.080 Yes.

00:17:27.840 That's right.

00:17:29.160 So what did Harriet do? 0.89

00:17:31.660 So again, Harriet, because her, her grandmother's now free because you mentioned how she was

00:17:37.320 emancipated and she runs a bakery in town.

00:17:39.900 Everybody loves her.

00:17:40.620 And everyone loves her.

00:17:41.360 She's, she's grandma.

00:17:42.260 They call her Auntie Molly.

00:17:43.440 Yeah.

00:17:43.680 That's what they call her. 1.00

00:17:44.280 And Harriet lives there and, and, and they're okay.

00:17:47.120 They're, they're, they're, they're not wealthy, but they have nice things.

00:17:49.700 They have, and these raiders come in and, and she knows they're coming because, you know,

00:17:54.320 they're going to make a, this, this whole dog and pony show to scare everybody.

00:17:58.600 So she brings out the nicest tablecloth.

00:18:01.160 She makes, she brings out the flowers. 0.76

00:18:02.960 She decorates the house to make it even look nicer than it usually is. 0.55

00:18:07.140 And income, these lowlifes, these, these, these, these, you know, these white raiders 1.00

00:18:13.520 who just signed up for the militia, just for this purpose, for this day of raid and, and,

00:18:18.260 and horrible things. 0.97

00:18:19.600 And they come in and they're, they're, they're sick because they walk in and they see this black 1.00

00:18:24.020 family has more than they have. 0.96

00:18:25.660 I would think if I were with Aunt Molly and Harriet, I would say, no, do the opposite.

00:18:32.500 I know.

00:18:33.120 Right?

00:18:33.660 I know.

00:18:34.240 I don't know how this worked.

00:18:36.420 She, in order for her to actually wage this psychological warfare on her master and on the

00:18:41.740 bad people in the town, she had to have this defiant spirit and it, it manifested itself

00:18:46.340 maybe even when, maybe she didn't really want it to sometimes, but she couldn't help herself.

00:18:50.440 She knew she was a daughter of God and no one could tell her that her skin changed that.

00:18:55.840 And, and she, uh, she would do these things and they walked into the house and she would

00:19:01.260 fight with them and say, you find your, there's no evidence here.

00:19:03.900 And then, and then she tried to kick them out of the house. 1.00

00:19:06.240 And then she was so smart.

00:19:07.380 She had, she had a couple of white powerful friends in town who, once things got to the

00:19:12.300 point, she gave them the sign. 0.64

00:19:13.240 And they walked in and stood in the, in the house and said, it's time for you, you boys

00:19:17.580 to leave.

00:19:18.760 And, um, and then there's this funny part in the, in the story where as they're walking

00:19:23.400 out, they're, they're cussing and racial slurs.

00:19:25.980 And I can't believe you bleepity bleeps have all this stuff.

00:19:29.820 You know, we don't have tablecloth like this.

00:19:32.380 Where'd you guys get this?

00:19:33.740 And grandma Molly, who has that same defiant spirit says, well, you can rest assured we

00:19:37.920 didn't find them from, we didn't get them from your homes.

00:19:41.220 And, and with that, they get booted out of the house, you know?

00:19:45.300 So, um, I think that, that Harriet was righteously defiant, you know, and she, and she couldn't,

00:19:53.740 she couldn't, it's who she was.

00:19:56.760 So she's transferred to the plantation because she won't give in to her master's, uh, will. 0.89

00:20:04.780 So, and he says, I'm going to, I'm going to break the family up.

00:20:08.500 I'm going to work your kids to the bone. 1.00

00:20:10.040 I'm going to sell your daughter. 0.99

00:20:11.080 I'm going to sell your daughter. 0.99

00:20:12.100 And, and she knows what that means and what he means by that.

00:20:15.540 And he says, I'm going to first put you at the plantation.

00:20:18.680 Uh, and again, she says, okay, right away.

00:20:22.900 And he says, no, no, you need a week to think about that.

00:20:25.540 And he leaves and she's like, no, I've got, I've got my answer.

00:20:28.040 You can send me.

00:20:28.700 He comes back a week later and he says, so what have you been thinking?

00:20:31.720 And she's like, I told you last week, I'm ready to go.

00:20:33.920 No, I mean, cause he gave her the offer, the cottage again, go to the cottage.

00:20:37.520 Your kids can stay with grandma.

00:20:38.940 Yeah.

00:20:39.080 They can stay with you.

00:20:39.980 No.

00:20:40.940 And, and he was just bewildered.

00:20:43.840 Are you seriously, did you hear what I told you?

00:20:46.260 I'm going to sell your children. 0.99

00:20:47.580 If you don't become my concubine, your kids are sold. 0.99

00:20:50.160 Right.

00:20:50.520 And she's like, I can answer you right now.

00:20:52.060 Yeah.

00:20:52.240 I'm going, let's go.

00:20:53.720 Bags are packed.

00:20:54.240 I'll go to the plantation.

00:20:55.760 And on the surface, you would think, Harriet, what are you doing?

00:20:58.760 Like you, you are now creating the very thing you fear the most.

00:21:03.720 But she didn't live on the surface.

00:21:05.800 She didn't think on the surface.

00:21:06.860 She knew exactly what she was doing.

00:21:08.880 She was always 10 steps ahead of this guy.

00:21:11.200 So she goes to the plantation.

00:21:12.500 Do you think she was, or was she, was she, was she, were her actions smarter than she even knew?

00:21:24.160 Was she, was she always, I mean, cause that takes incredible courage to do what she did.

00:21:35.600 You know, if you really believe you're being guided by God, which I think she did.

00:21:39.220 She did for sure believe that.

00:21:41.020 You know, that gives you some extra, but you do still are a human being and you have to go, oh my gosh.

00:21:47.400 Because she did not want to lose her children.

00:21:50.000 That's all that mattered to her.

00:21:51.320 She, she could lose her life, but she wanted to make sure her children never lived in slavery.

00:21:58.460 Okay.

00:22:00.300 So she had that fear.

00:22:04.180 Do you think sometimes she, she thought to herself, maybe I've gone too far this time.

00:22:08.260 Oh, I think she had to have.

00:22:09.580 Had to have.

00:22:10.120 Cause I've read her, I've read her autobiography so many times and I am thinking, Harriet, what are you doing?

00:22:15.020 You know, why are you doing this?

00:22:17.020 You know, and, um, she doesn't reveal to you exactly in that moment, why she did things.

00:22:22.120 Was it God inspiring her?

00:22:23.400 Was it her kind of being overzealous? 0.96

00:22:25.060 Whatever it was though, she ended up figuring it out.

00:22:28.620 Right.

00:22:28.940 So she, she gets to the plantation.

00:22:30.940 Yeah.

00:22:31.460 And she appears to have a plan.

00:22:32.960 Yes.

00:22:33.620 From day one, she becomes the most subservient, the most obedient, working over hours, everything she can do.

00:22:41.580 Oh, and the James Norcom, the master's son runs that plantation and they fall in love with her.

00:22:47.560 They think, what's, what's my dad talking about?

00:22:49.940 This, she's the best slave we've got. 1.00

00:22:51.960 In fact, she can't do enough to help us. 0.51

00:22:54.760 And, and she talks about, she's like, I knew what I was doing.

00:22:57.180 She's like, I needed them to be complacent. 0.57

00:22:59.000 I needed them to keep, to start loving me and start trusting me.

00:23:01.900 And that's when I can work my works.

00:23:04.240 And from day one, she started doing that.

00:23:06.120 Uh, and she knew the day would come as Norcom promised, the kids would come out and be what they said, broke, broke in, broken in as, as slaves.

00:23:16.900 And eventually her daughter was going to be harassed sexually by this man.

00:23:21.600 Um, and when that day came, she knew, I mean, she had it already figured out.

00:23:30.400 And she had, she had taken her clothes weeks earlier, or maybe months earlier out of grandma Molly's, of her room from grandma Molly's house in town.

00:23:40.020 The plantation is about six miles outside of town.

00:23:42.400 And she hid them with a friend.

00:23:44.140 Yeah.

00:23:44.320 So this, this, these were her private things that stayed in town.

00:23:48.460 She took her everyday clothes to the plantation.

00:23:51.580 Right.

00:23:51.960 But all of her stuff that she, if you were going to go someplace, you wanted those things.

00:23:58.060 Right.

00:23:58.260 All of her possessions.

00:23:59.060 And she quietly, no one knew except grandma, I presume, took all of those things and hid them.

00:24:05.660 And hid them.

00:24:06.680 And no one would know why she did that when she did it.

00:24:09.540 Right.

00:24:09.920 But here's the day she's, she's been waiting for.

00:24:12.700 The kids are coming tomorrow.

00:24:15.160 Tomorrow, the kids come to the plantation to be broken in.

00:24:17.480 Well, that's the night she slips out the window.

00:24:19.780 They're not watching because they trust her.

00:24:21.260 And she heads into the woods and just disappears.

00:24:23.560 So the next morning, the last thing, and she knows what she's doing because they're not

00:24:28.260 going to bring the kids out to the plantation because they're only two years old and six.

00:24:32.560 So who's going to watch them?

00:24:33.620 It's going to be a drain on the, the, the, the, the, the economy of the farm. 0.71

00:24:36.920 Right.

00:24:37.360 So she knows they're not going to come out unless she's there to take care of them.

00:24:40.080 So she keeps her kids safe in that, in that, in that instant.

00:24:44.160 And Norcom goes nuts.

00:24:46.100 She's escaped.

00:24:47.280 I can't believe she's escaped.

00:24:48.900 How did you guys let this happen?

00:24:49.840 And he sends out the patrols and they go and raid grandma Molly's house and all her possessions

00:24:54.520 are gone.

00:24:55.400 Well, she's not in town, is she?

00:24:56.960 She went North. 0.91

00:24:58.200 She's out of here. 0.84

00:24:59.400 It's brilliant.

00:25:00.380 So he concentrates all his efforts on searching for her in the North when in fact, she's a mile

00:25:05.120 away hiding in the woods, but all calculated.

00:25:08.240 Just, just amazing.

00:25:10.080 And she is in trouble.

00:25:13.440 She's bitten by a snake. 0.95

00:25:14.720 Yeah.

00:25:15.520 And now she's in trouble and, uh, she has got to get help.

00:25:23.800 Uh, somebody in town has got to help her.

00:25:27.340 And it's a white woman who owns slaves. 1.00

00:25:29.980 Yes.

00:25:31.180 And the, doesn't she go to grandma Molly or aunt Molly and say, I can help, which

00:25:39.640 had to be a big roll of the dice.

00:25:43.060 Oh, huge.

00:25:44.360 Right.

00:25:44.960 Huge.

00:25:45.660 Trusting.

00:25:46.180 For both sides.

00:25:47.000 Right.

00:25:47.240 At this point.

00:25:48.180 Right.

00:25:48.540 Um, and this is the point I think where.

00:25:51.580 And when you say, hang on, when you say both sides later, later, you will see that there

00:25:56.520 was a slave that was trying to find Harriet because she then could be the master's favorite.

00:26:06.060 Okay. 0.79

00:26:06.460 So when you say both sides, the white person knew you're, I'm going to be destroyed. 0.98

00:26:13.340 The black person knew, uh, if I, if this is a trap, I'm toast. 0.98

00:26:20.380 Right. 0.95

00:26:20.920 Oh yeah.

00:26:21.460 They both had everything to lose.

00:26:23.300 Everything to lose.

00:26:24.180 Yeah.

00:26:24.520 And they're looking, I picture this moment.

00:26:26.280 They're looking at her name is Martha.

00:26:27.900 Martha Blount is her name.

00:26:29.420 And she's looking across the table, kind of like you and I are right now.

00:26:33.100 And grandma Molly, and they're just looking at each other.

00:26:35.380 Can we trust each other?

00:26:36.420 Cause if either of us betrayed the secret, we're both dead.

00:26:39.900 Or if one of us does, we're both dead.

00:26:41.680 This is a trap.

00:26:42.500 Did Norcom send you to me?

00:26:44.440 And Molly's out in the woods bitten by a snake.

00:26:46.700 I'm sorry, Harriet.

00:26:47.800 And she had these moments where I think it was like, I'll do all that I can do.

00:26:52.420 And then I leave the rest up to God because she hit a point where this, where she's like,

00:26:56.060 okay, I need someone to help me.

00:26:57.880 I didn't expect the snake. 0.78

00:26:59.240 And she's, she's going to die.

00:27:00.640 She has a poisonous bite. 1.00

00:27:01.580 She can tell.

00:27:02.560 And so grandma says, very religious, very prayerful.

00:27:05.560 She said she felt a peace.

00:27:07.880 God said, you can trust Martha.

00:27:10.480 You can trust her, even though she owns slaves.

00:27:13.700 And so.

00:27:14.280 Can we stop here for just a second?

00:27:15.900 Let me, let me, this is the point of the story that Anne Frank came to mind.

00:27:24.980 That it's, it's not just the slave trade where we've seen this kind of stuff.

00:27:31.620 It's, it's Anne Frank and the Nazis. 0.84

00:27:36.560 Somebody comes to the door and says, I can hide you.

00:27:41.420 You don't know.

00:27:42.720 You don't know.

00:27:44.200 We have it now in the Middle East with ISIS and with Christians. 1.00

00:27:51.380 I can hide you. 0.94

00:27:52.580 I can get you out.

00:27:54.320 Yeah.

00:27:54.560 You might take me right directly to an auction block or to somebody who wants, you know, to

00:28:01.740 harvest my organs.

00:28:03.620 I mean, it's, it's, this is still happening.

00:28:08.040 Still happening.

00:28:09.500 And it was happening back then.

00:28:10.740 Solomon Northrup, you know, the 12 years of slave, that story.

00:28:14.400 The same thing.

00:28:14.860 He was trapped.

00:28:16.200 They took him and they said, they're going to, they're going to, I write about in the

00:28:19.280 book where they're, they're, they're going to take him and make him a musician and a

00:28:22.980 talent.

00:28:23.800 And the, the, the producers are slave owners and it was all a trap.

00:28:27.060 And, and so this is the world you live in when slavery exists.

00:28:30.860 It's this horrible place.

00:28:32.800 And, and all you have in that moment, Molly and Martha is God to intervene.

00:28:36.820 And you're both, you're hoping for a witness because that's all you've got.

00:28:40.300 And you have, you haven't even the best intentioned people.

00:28:43.700 If you look back at John Merrick, the elephant man, and you see, he went from one cage kind 0.98

00:28:52.160 of to another, you know, where he was a showpiece in, in some regard.

00:28:58.680 Okay.

00:28:59.260 Back to the story.

00:29:01.040 So Martha sends one of the jolliest old characters in the whole book. 1.00

00:29:06.740 Uh, and her name is old Betty. 1.00

00:29:08.700 Old Betty is the one slave that Martha says I would give my life to. 1.00

00:29:12.660 She, she trusts her and she tells her the secret, can't trust the other slaves in her 1.00

00:29:16.640 own house with the plan she's about to.

00:29:19.180 You would think that if you're a slave, you would be the most trustworthy on hiding a slave.

00:29:29.360 Right?

00:29:29.980 Wouldn't you?

00:29:30.560 Yeah.

00:29:30.780 That's, this is, it's one of the surprising parts of the story that, that, that Harriet knew

00:29:36.080 she couldn't trust other slaves.

00:29:37.760 They would rat her out and be the, and be Norcom's hero, you know?

00:29:41.700 Um, so it's greed and power on one side and it's survival and power on the other side.

00:29:50.980 Yeah.

00:29:51.720 Lots of games running all over the place.

00:29:53.840 So old Betty goes, this is the, the, the, the cook for slave for, for, for Martha Blount 1.00

00:30:01.880 goes and grandma, grandma Molly tells her where here it's hiding in the wood.

00:30:06.740 They go get her, bring her back and they hide her in this closet room.

00:30:10.560 That's, that's, uh, adjoining the master bedroom where Martha Blount resides. 1.00

00:30:16.440 And she's the only one with the key and she locks her in there and says, you can't come 0.97

00:30:20.800 out.

00:30:21.000 You can't make a noise.

00:30:22.340 Let's figure this out.

00:30:23.340 Let's, let's figure out what's, what's going on.

00:30:25.500 And so there, they take care of her.

00:30:27.040 They, they, they, you know, they, they made her well.

00:30:29.620 Yeah.

00:30:29.860 And now, and now Norcom can't find her.

00:30:33.720 He's freaking out and he does the unthinkable.

00:30:36.000 The part for me that, um, drew me more to this story than anything else.

00:30:41.840 Uh, because I've, I obviously will eventually get into this, uh, my personal connection to

00:30:46.220 why I am almost obsessed over this story and the personal application to me.

00:30:51.680 Um, Norcom decides to up the ante and he takes the two children as is his right.

00:30:57.380 He owns those children.

00:30:58.260 He snatches them out of grandma Molly's house and he throws them in this tiny little gel 1.00

00:31:02.980 that still exists.

00:31:05.240 I go there.

00:31:06.300 I've been there many, many times.

00:31:07.620 I saw the pictures of it.

00:31:08.340 I've prayed there.

00:31:09.300 I've very small.

00:31:10.140 And he takes these two years old and six years old and throws these little babies into jail

00:31:16.100 and holds them as hostages and says, let's, let's the word out that until and unless Harriet

00:31:25.580 returns, those kids will stay in jail.

00:31:28.260 And Harriet learns of it.

00:31:30.020 She's up in the closet and she learns your kids are there.

00:31:32.620 All you got to do is go to them.

00:31:34.320 He'll let them out.

00:31:35.140 Now you'll be, you're, you're destroyed.

00:31:38.680 And this is the, I think maybe the hardest part for her.

00:31:43.480 Do I trust in God?

00:31:44.980 Do I trust in my plan?

00:31:46.340 And God was telling her and her plan was telling her, let them stay in jail, stay in the closet,

00:31:52.380 stay in jail.

00:31:53.640 That will lead to their ultimate liberation.

00:31:56.360 And she's right, by the way, but she's having to put faith in this now.

00:32:00.360 When you say stay in the closet, it is truly a small little closet, right?

00:32:07.980 And locked by either the cook or the mistress of the house.

00:32:12.820 Right.

00:32:13.000 No other slave has a key to it.

00:32:16.360 No one can get in.

00:32:17.360 And she has to stay quiet because there's slaves all over the house who will rat her out. 1.00

00:32:21.160 At one point, one of the slaves is trying all their keys because she's moved.

00:32:25.620 They've heard her.

00:32:26.540 Yes.

00:32:27.280 And they think, oh, there she is.

00:32:31.020 Yes.

00:32:31.340 Right?

00:32:31.780 Exactly.

00:32:34.060 What did, why didn't that go anywhere?

00:32:36.540 Well, I guess it did.

00:32:37.440 They came to the house and she was, she was hiding under the floorboards in the kitchen.

00:32:42.760 Is that right?

00:32:43.280 Yes.

00:32:43.600 So, um, they kept coming and checking everyone's houses and, and every time word would get out,

00:32:51.220 old Betty would come grab Harriet, throw her under the floorboard in the kitchen. 1.00

00:32:54.740 And she'd sit under that thing for days if necessary.

00:32:58.180 And then back and forth and back and forth.

00:33:00.800 Um, and then, uh, things just got too hot.

00:33:04.180 Um, Norcom was asking too many questions and they realized they need a more permanent,

00:33:08.520 better hiding place for her.

00:33:10.820 Um, and, but first I had to get her out of town, put her somewhere. 0.97

00:33:15.640 And this is one of the most horrifying parts of the story.

00:33:18.240 Uh, and I've been to this horrifying place.

00:33:20.820 Uh, it's called snaky swamp.

00:33:22.340 Uh, it's, it's just, Edenton's a little coastal town, um, hasn't changed much, much from,

00:33:29.180 from the 19th century.

00:33:30.420 Um, and so you can go there and see this and smell this and you can, you feel your, the

00:33:34.940 story.

00:33:35.280 Is Aunt Molly's house still there in the town?

00:33:36.940 Her, her lot is still there.

00:33:38.320 The house is no longer there.

00:33:40.200 And so they take Harriet.

00:33:42.300 There's, there's her late father's friend, Peter.

00:33:44.940 They let him in on the secret.

00:33:46.940 He puts her in a canoe and rows her out to snaky swamp.

00:33:49.720 Now snaky swamp today is a, um, it's a historical site certified by the state of, of North Carolina

00:33:55.720 as an underground railroad haven.

00:33:58.700 Uh, it's a place.

00:33:59.600 But this is before.

00:34:00.440 This was, this was, yeah, this was before the underground railroad.

00:34:02.880 This was before the underground railroad was up and going really.

00:34:04.780 And so she goes out there and spends two horrifying nights fighting snakes, mosquitoes.

00:34:12.280 Um, he rose her three miles deep into the, into snaky swamp, wanting to learn her story

00:34:18.560 for more than just for this book, but for my own pursuits, which we'll talk about eventually.

00:34:23.900 Um, I went out there, I rented a canoe and I went by myself one afternoon, um, into snaky

00:34:31.540 swamp.

00:34:31.940 And you know, the, the guy who rented me the canoe, he says, where are you going?

00:34:36.300 I says, I'm going to go into snaky swamp.

00:34:38.260 He says, no, you're not.

00:34:39.860 He says, there's, they called that for a reason.

00:34:42.360 There's snakes everywhere.

00:34:43.900 I said, I, I, I've got to, I've got, I came all the way out here.

00:34:47.260 I traveled 3000 miles to go into this swamp.

00:34:50.420 Um, there's these waterways that take you miles deep.

00:34:53.860 And he said, he's like, listen, sir, the snakes are in the trees.

00:34:58.840 If they see something moving below, they jump out.

00:35:01.960 Onto your head.

00:35:03.700 You don't want to go in there.

00:35:05.640 And he saw my consternation and he said, you know, he kind of relented.

00:35:10.120 And he said, well, most of them aren't poisonous.

00:35:12.040 So maybe you'll be okay.

00:35:14.520 I need a, I need a heavier deposit on the canoe.

00:35:17.580 And so I was, I was, I was just hell bent on getting out there.

00:35:22.060 So I went about a half a mile in and after my third confrontation with the snake, I, I'm done.

00:35:28.060 I, I, I turned that thing around and I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

00:35:31.260 And, and, uh, so I can't even fathom.

00:35:34.980 She's three miles deep into this place.

00:35:36.940 And she describes the snakes are everywhere.

00:35:39.640 They're crawling on her.

00:35:40.480 She's all night just going, just blindly stabbing around to keep snakes away from her.

00:35:45.720 Kind of like, uh, when Indiana Jones jumped down into that, right?

00:35:50.340 I hate snakes.

00:35:51.640 That's exactly it.

00:35:53.040 Um, they eventually, after two days, they were creating another hiding place for her in grandma

00:35:59.020 Molly's house and it was an attic space, uh, about three, three feet by two feet high, seven

00:36:07.820 feet in length.

00:36:08.700 It was a little attic space.

00:36:10.120 They just created with a false compartment.

00:36:12.440 Peter got her out of the snakey swamp, put her up in grandma's house.

00:36:15.840 And she, and he said, you won't, this will be your last walk.

00:36:18.860 Enjoy it.

00:36:19.280 This is the, the one block from the water to the Molly's house.

00:36:22.720 And she went up into that place.

00:36:24.880 Now, remember Molly is a target.

00:36:27.180 She's a bakery. 1.00

00:36:28.000 People are, there are bakeries in her house.

00:36:30.620 Um, Molly does not come down.

00:36:32.820 I'm sorry.

00:36:33.160 Harriet does not come out of that little space for seven years.

00:36:38.120 She's holed up into this little place. 0.86

00:36:40.140 There's a replica in Edenton.

00:36:41.580 You can actually go and crawl in it.

00:36:42.900 There's a picture of it in the book.

00:36:44.820 Um, and that's where she, and that's where she stayed for, for seven years. 0.97

00:36:51.760 Tell me, cause I, I don't want to reveal all the story, but then tell me.

00:36:58.000 Tell me the happy ending.

00:37:01.220 The happy ending is really the person that is Harriet Jacobs, her motive for doing all

00:37:08.340 of this, her, her, her love of God and her, her, her spirit of, of, of service that she

00:37:18.020 just displays to everybody.

00:37:22.000 She just wants to help people. 0.91

00:37:23.840 You know, it wasn't like, and all the people read the, the daring rescue, how she got her

00:37:28.360 kids out of jail, how she got out of, I mean, it's, it's a crazy story, but I want you're,

00:37:32.500 you're right.

00:37:32.800 Well, we won't give everything away.

00:37:33.860 Um, but when she gets her freedom and this is the, this is the part that just is the

00:37:38.840 so tender to me, she could have done anything.

00:37:41.580 She could have pursued professional things.

00:37:43.820 She could have, she didn't.

00:37:46.280 She gets you like Harriet Tubman before, you know, who's also a hero in this book.

00:37:52.120 She gets to her freedom.

00:37:54.060 And by the way, she's not free yet.

00:37:55.640 She's a fugitive.

00:37:56.320 And that's a whole nother story, how she's fighting in the North now, um, but she turns

00:38:01.040 around and goes back into the South.

00:38:04.000 She goes to the front lines of the civil war, um, because she wants to be there for the thousands

00:38:10.180 of fugitive children who have, who are being liberated by this war and running North and

00:38:15.180 coming destitute, coming orphaned, coming hungry.

00:38:18.260 And she's on the front lines.

00:38:20.180 She establishes the Jacobs free school.

00:38:22.480 She called it later.

00:38:23.220 She established the Lincoln school for these children.

00:38:25.960 And she, she helped these kids get adopted and which is also a personal thing that connects 0.96

00:38:30.540 to my story.

00:38:32.100 Um, and so this, this, she lived to serve God and men and, and nothing could distract her.

00:38:40.460 All these distractions, all this people, their hate, their viciousness.

00:38:44.400 She was able just to put it aside and say, there's real things going on here.

00:38:48.500 God is real.

00:38:49.360 I am real.

00:38:50.080 These children are real.

00:38:51.060 This war is real.

00:38:52.480 I'm going to focus on these things.

00:38:54.000 That's why I am liberated.

00:38:57.160 That's why God allowed me to be liberated so that I could focus on these real things and

00:39:04.500 make people's lives better.

00:39:07.120 I heard a great phrase the other day.

00:39:11.720 It was from the pulpit of the church.

00:39:13.360 Somebody said, in the midst of the darkest of human suffering, that is where you'll find God.

00:39:27.140 You're looking for him right there.

00:39:30.440 Go there because that's where he's dwelling.

00:39:34.180 That's what she did.

00:39:37.940 That's what she did.

00:39:38.880 And there's a, if I, if you don't mind, it is brought to mind something, you know, people

00:39:42.440 asked me often, um, they've asked me, how do you go nose to nose with traffickers and

00:39:50.460 buy and sell children? 0.95

00:39:52.280 Even though you're doing it undercover, how do you do that and not just become so darkened

00:39:56.760 yourself and just cynical and, and I couldn't answer that question for a long time because

00:40:01.880 the answer made me look crazy because the answer was, as I thought, I thought, those

00:40:07.700 are some of the lightest moments.

00:40:09.120 Those are some of the most brilliant moments of my life. 0.94

00:40:11.760 And I was embarrassed to say it because again, I would, I would look foolish or crazy or immoral 0.95

00:40:17.120 or something. 0.96

00:40:17.580 What do you enjoy this?

00:40:18.540 And I couldn't figure out what it was until I heard, uh, someone once talk about angels

00:40:24.560 and, um, the doctrine of angels, you know, the, the reality.

00:40:31.060 And then I was relieved and it hit me like a ton of bricks.

00:40:36.060 That's what it is.

00:40:37.420 When I'm close to the darkest things and those kids are right in that other room about to

00:40:42.400 be sold.

00:40:44.300 That's what I've been feeling all these times.

00:40:46.380 You know, that's the light.

00:40:48.160 God is there.

00:40:50.040 The angels are with these children.

00:40:51.980 It's, you know, some people lose their, their, their, their, um, belief, their faith in God.

00:40:57.640 I've watched people in my, in my industry, people who, who are undercover operators, they

00:41:01.940 turn from God because how could God let this happen?

00:41:05.480 How could God let these children be abused this way?

00:41:08.060 There is no God.

00:41:08.960 I'm out.

00:41:09.640 I watch it all the time.

00:41:10.980 And my experience has been just the opposite because the closer I get to the darkest place,

00:41:16.360 especially where the kids are, I witness angels there and God is there and you, you can't

00:41:24.360 get closer to God than by going there.

00:41:26.240 You and I went to, um, Thailand together and, uh, and I will never forget walking down the

00:41:34.560 street with you and, uh, talking to you about one of the worst guys that you had ever encountered

00:41:43.960 who was just a monster.

00:41:47.160 You remember?

00:41:49.260 And you told me the conversations that you had to have to gain his trust.

00:41:57.760 Can you share a little bit of that?

00:41:59.820 So you feel people know how dark this is.

00:42:02.600 It is, well, I'll, I'll tell you this at the end of those conversations, I'm running to

00:42:09.040 the bathroom and throwing up and literally vomiting.

00:42:11.740 Yeah.

00:42:12.120 Um, talking about children, like you're selling a computer piece or a car and they're, you

00:42:19.220 know, it gets so grotesque that I, I'll stop there.

00:42:22.040 So I asked you at that point, cause there's something, there's something to be said for

00:42:30.320 a parent, a father and a man that may or may not be unique, um, to our gender. 0.99

00:42:39.400 But I asked you, how do you not just pull a gun and kill these people? 0.99

00:42:49.380 How do you know? 1.00

00:42:50.880 I mean, I know you're, you're probably very handy with your hands.

00:42:55.300 I would need a gun.

00:42:56.240 You're probably more handy with your hands.

00:42:58.540 And do you remember what you said to me?

00:43:03.160 Um, I think about those kids.

00:43:06.560 If I, if I mess this up, if I were to do that and, and the sting operation, there would

00:43:17.320 be children who would be lost.

00:43:19.380 The prosecution wouldn't go through.

00:43:21.900 Um, he would probably be free and I'd be in jail.

00:43:24.320 I mean, there's all the, it's the kids.

00:43:26.460 It's the, it's the children that I think of in those moments.

00:43:30.120 Don't betray the kids.

00:43:31.260 Don't betray the kids.

00:43:32.140 And that smile on my face, though it's looking at evil stays.

00:43:37.940 And I, and I finished the, the job.

00:43:41.560 But you've had days where you've come home and looked at your kids and thought, I can't

00:43:51.580 do it anymore.

00:43:52.180 When I first talked to you, you were kind of going through that.

00:43:58.220 Um, I can't do it anymore.

00:44:02.240 I've had many, I still have those days.

00:44:04.720 Um, and it is usually with my children.

00:44:08.020 When I come home and I see them, um, you know, I've, I've done operations where the kids we

00:44:14.640 just rescued were miles away from, from where I live and going from that scene to this scene

00:44:23.760 and you're filled with guilt, almost guilt.

00:44:27.400 Why are my kids okay?

00:44:29.740 And, and, and, and that child is not, why do my kids have two parents and a family system? 0.95

00:44:34.940 Well, they have a trafficker as the only adult in their life who's raping them and selling them. 0.94

00:44:40.740 And, um, I've buckled. 0.84

00:44:42.500 I mean, I've, it's, I've, I've, I've passed out.

00:44:45.980 I've dropped to the floor.

00:44:47.100 Um, it's, it's, it's a really, really hard thing to, to, to confront.

00:45:14.760 We didn't talk about this in advance.

00:45:17.100 And I didn't plan on this advance, but we prayed before we went on.

00:45:24.640 So I feel, um, compelled to share something that you know about that nobody else knows about.

00:45:31.740 I not talked about this with anybody.

00:45:35.000 You say you feel guilty, you know, why are my kids?

00:45:43.060 I felt my kids were safe.

00:45:45.420 And you've, and you've been to my house, I have 24, seven armed security.

00:45:52.860 I have thousands of dollars worth of equipment at my house.

00:45:57.840 We have firewalls.

00:45:59.600 We have, you name it, we have it.

00:46:01.860 The police actually call my, my house, the compound.

00:46:05.220 Um, okay.

00:46:06.960 Um, and one night at one o'clock in the morning, because we happen to have phones in our house

00:46:18.100 that have different lines.

00:46:19.200 My wife happened to be awake and she saw the, the phone rang, just half a ring.

00:46:27.780 And then she looked at the phone and she saw that the light went on.

00:46:32.680 Somebody had answered.

00:46:35.940 And then it went off right away.

00:46:39.460 She woke me up and she said, somebody answered the phone.

00:46:42.200 Um, and I said, are the kids asleep?

00:46:49.240 She said, I just went into both their rooms.

00:46:51.760 They're asleep.

00:46:52.920 Somebody is in the house.

00:46:57.840 So I said, okay, let's calm down for a second.

00:47:00.660 Let's just wait.

00:47:01.700 Let's just, let's talk about this for a minute.

00:47:05.360 And then about 20 minutes later, that light went on again.

00:47:10.020 And we could see that the, the call that had come in was from California.

00:47:20.040 So now I grabbed my gun and my dogs and I, uh, go out in the house and I'm looking for

00:47:28.460 somebody in our house and I say, I hear something and I say, if you're one of the kids, announce

00:47:41.040 it right now.

00:47:42.680 If your security, announce it right now. 1.00

00:47:45.460 I have a gun and I have a dog and I feel under threat and I will shoot you. 1.00

00:47:53.260 Announce who you are now. 1.00

00:47:55.120 Nothing.

00:47:55.420 I'm serious. 1.00

00:47:59.400 If there is someone in this house, I will shoot you. 1.00

00:48:04.980 Announce. 1.00

00:48:05.740 And I heard my son say, it's me.

00:48:08.540 My son had been playing on PlayStation and, uh, had been contacted by a guy in California

00:48:28.020 and they were quote, just talking about the games at one o'clock in the morning.

00:48:34.720 He was a 30 year old man, I think.

00:48:39.140 And, um, my son thought that that was normal.

00:48:44.420 And my wife and I said, no, that's not normal, honey.

00:48:48.480 You, you, he called at night and then you picked up on half a ring and said, I'll call

00:48:53.580 you back.

00:48:54.060 Well, and why is he calling it?

00:48:56.480 You know, at that time it was two o'clock in the morning.

00:49:01.220 I am so blessed to have my security and to know you.

00:49:06.800 I think at five o'clock in the morning when I thought people might start to be getting

00:49:12.180 up, I wrote to you.

00:49:14.000 I contacted, um, security and said, here's the guy's name.

00:49:20.540 Here's what was on caller ID.

00:49:22.960 And I called you and you had the child services come over to our house right away. 0.95

00:49:29.240 You want to talk about that at all and what it's, you know, that could happen to you of

00:49:37.860 all people, uh, not only because your cause is our cause you, you know, this, you're, you're

00:49:44.040 one of the few who's so open and supportive of the cause of protecting children and, you

00:49:52.480 know, the physical security of your house.

00:49:54.060 And yet one of these creeps got into your house and my son was defending him at first.

00:50:02.580 My son was defending at first.

00:50:04.560 My son said, dad, you're always paranoid about everything.

00:50:08.780 And I'm like, son, this is a 30 year old man.

00:50:13.400 You you're 12.

00:50:17.000 And of course we figured out that you were right about that person.

00:50:22.280 Your hunter is correct.

00:50:23.860 And he is, um, is, you know, his, his days are numbered.

00:50:29.340 Um, and he's a predator and he got into your house and, and it's an, it's, it's such an

00:50:35.600 important story for all parents and all people that that's how many predators there are.

00:50:42.460 There are 2 million children are in the commercial sex trade, 2 million children.

00:50:46.440 So what kind of demand justifies that number?

00:50:49.660 That's how many predators are looking for our kids. 0.87

00:50:53.060 They'll find them on Facebook.

00:50:54.040 They'll find them on Instagram.

00:50:55.360 They'll find them on PlayStation.

00:50:56.800 They're finding them on, I, I, when, when, you know, the children's, um, sex crimes, uh,

00:51:04.540 division came over.

00:51:05.720 They asked for the PlayStation.

00:51:08.740 My son said, well, I don't record anything.

00:51:10.800 They said, oh, don't worry.

00:51:13.300 Everything, everything is recorded.

00:51:16.440 And I'll never forget.

00:51:17.960 He looked at me and he said, do I have your permission to transcribe all of your son's

00:51:22.980 conversations?

00:51:25.240 And I said, that's available.

00:51:29.440 He said, yep.

00:51:30.780 And I said, oh, you have my permission, which led them to a lot of discovery.

00:51:36.720 Um, but what they did was they took my PlayStation and they just had done this a few weeks before

00:51:46.880 with somebody else whose, whose son was in exactly the same situation and had been taken

00:51:53.080 to another city.

00:51:54.920 And just by the grace of God, they caught him.

00:51:58.320 He had already been abused, but they caught the person.

00:52:02.880 Um, and it's because they were playing a game.

00:52:06.720 She was, it was a woman.

00:52:08.960 She was 40 and she was, uh, bonding on the game and then molesting.

00:52:16.900 And, uh, and so what they do is they take these playstations when they find them and they

00:52:23.500 pose as people.

00:52:26.400 And, um, this particular person, uh, the, the last I have on this is, or last I care to share

00:52:36.460 is that there were 12 children that he was grooming.

00:52:41.560 Yeah.

00:52:42.560 And because of this, what happened, that's why he'll be stopped.

00:52:47.020 If he hasn't already, we can't really talk about it.

00:52:49.060 So.

00:52:49.200 I, um, I, um, I don't think people, I think people think this is a far off problem.

00:52:58.220 They do.

00:52:58.860 And that's, and that's the problem.

00:53:02.120 Cause it's not, it is everywhere.

00:53:05.600 It's horrifying to look at and they don't want to look at it, but we've got to, we've

00:53:10.620 got to look at it for the, for the kids at home, for the kids abroad.

00:53:13.840 We have to stand up and be the parents to all these kids who don't have anybody.

00:53:18.980 No, it makes me so, it makes me so, I want to say angry, but it doesn't cause I, I understand

00:53:27.340 it.

00:53:27.740 And it just turns into frustration for me of trying to do, we're repeating history.

00:53:34.260 All these people who say, Oh, our founders were so bad.

00:53:37.280 All these people are so bad.

00:53:38.800 Now, how come that white community knew that was going on with Harriet and they did nothing? 0.98

00:53:45.440 Yeah, sure.

00:53:45.980 That one woman bought Molly, but the town people, they knew that woman, how come they didn't

00:53:52.560 stand up?

00:53:54.100 Well, because nobody wants to look at it.

00:53:57.180 Nobody wants to look at it.

00:53:58.080 It's too big to solve.

00:53:59.480 They don't know what they're going to do.

00:54:01.500 What am I going to do about it?

00:54:03.660 That's exactly where we are right now.

00:54:06.160 Nobody wants to look at it.

00:54:07.860 I can literally see minute to minute ratings.

00:54:11.860 And Tim, every time you come on, every time we talk about Nazarene Fund, OUR, Saving Kids,

00:54:19.320 every time you come on, I can see my ratings go right to the floor.

00:54:23.540 Sorry.

00:54:24.180 No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:54:27.340 I've tried a million different ways to package it.

00:54:31.260 It doesn't matter.

00:54:32.140 I know.

00:54:32.600 Nobody wants to hear it.

00:54:34.000 I know.

00:54:34.360 And yet, I said on the air, if you're looking for God, you're going to find him at the point

00:54:52.060 of the most human suffering.

00:54:54.740 That's where he is.

00:54:55.540 But if you're looking at God, what is God?

00:54:58.120 God is love.

00:54:58.840 He's compassion.

00:54:59.620 He's empathy.

00:55:00.720 He's help.

00:55:01.540 He's comfort.

00:55:02.420 He's all of those good things.

00:55:04.300 All of those good things.

00:55:06.380 I don't find any of those things on Twitter.

00:55:08.740 I don't find any of those things on Facebook.

00:55:11.160 I don't find any of those things on talk radio, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC in Washington, D.C.

00:55:17.380 I find none of that there.

00:55:21.300 And that's what we're missing.

00:55:24.900 I am convinced.

00:55:25.980 You talked me into, well, you didn't do a lot of talking into, but you talked me into

00:55:36.560 this cause, not just because of the children, but because this is the way to heal.

00:55:45.100 This is it.

00:55:46.040 This is it.

00:55:47.820 Everybody's asked me over and over again.

00:55:49.600 Okay, so now what do we do?

00:55:50.900 We know the problem.

00:55:51.900 What are we going to do?

00:55:52.580 This.

00:55:53.160 This is what we do right here.

00:55:55.500 This.

00:55:56.480 We save people.

00:55:58.680 We save children.

00:56:00.820 We save Christians.

00:56:02.360 We save the Muslims in China. 1.00

00:56:05.160 We save people.

00:56:11.560 And that's exactly why the NFL coach, Mike Tomlin, came to me.

00:56:16.040 He had the same realization you had.

00:56:18.200 In fact, when he was talking to me, I thought, I saw your face.

00:56:20.760 You're just talking the same language that Glenn was talking about, what this cause is.

00:56:26.340 See, I was so myopic, just let's save the kids, let's save the kids.

00:56:28.960 And you started talking about healing, how this could heal the nation.

00:56:32.280 And then Mike Tomlin, out of the blue, calls me last year.

00:56:38.840 And he says, come to Steelers camp.

00:56:41.000 And I was just, you know, I'm a football fan.

00:56:43.540 And I can't believe the Steelers are calling me to come.

00:56:47.340 He's like, I want to talk about who you are.

00:56:48.520 I'm like, okay.

00:56:49.020 So I get, I get to Steelers camp with him.

00:56:52.060 And at the first day, he says, meet me for lunch.

00:56:54.240 Just you and me, no one else.

00:56:56.720 And he says this, he says, I have a dirty little secret I have to tell you.

00:57:00.280 Oh boy.

00:57:00.960 And I'm like, what is, what is this?

00:57:03.480 Where are we going?

00:57:05.560 So.

00:57:06.240 I've got some children I'd like to sell you. 0.98

00:57:09.220 I thought you might have some connections.

00:57:11.780 I mean, I don't know.

00:57:12.520 It could go anywhere from here.

00:57:13.760 I'm like, what was, what's going on?

00:57:15.360 So we sit down and he says, look, before I say this to you, um, I want you to know that

00:57:22.020 the most important thing is saving kids.

00:57:26.340 And that's why I want you here.

00:57:28.100 But I do have an ulterior motive for having you here.

00:57:32.180 And he says to me, he says, why did you call your foundation the Underground Railroad?

00:57:38.880 And I said, because I love the movement.

00:57:41.380 You know, we can talk later about what, I mean, I was, you know, I, I,

00:57:46.220 in the beginning, when I was in the early 2000s, I didn't know who to turn to, to teach

00:57:49.700 me about slavery because no one was talking about it.

00:57:52.780 The word trafficking, human trafficking, that wasn't even a thing.

00:57:56.180 Um, and I, I turned in quiet desperation to history.

00:57:58.980 That's why people like Harry Jacobs are my heroes.

00:58:00.800 And I started telling him, that's why.

00:58:02.360 And he says, but the Underground Railroad, and he opened my eyes.

00:58:05.340 He's a very smart guy.

00:58:06.540 You know, very well read.

00:58:07.740 He said, the Underground Railroad, Tim, that was a time.

00:58:11.300 Bitter hate.

00:58:12.100 People were killing each other because of the color of their skin.

00:58:14.960 And, and oh, it was just this horrible time.

00:58:17.580 He said, yet there were people of all colors and all creeds who dropped the hate and they

00:58:22.560 found something that was real.

00:58:24.540 Something that they all agreed was real.

00:58:26.640 They might not agree on anything else.

00:58:28.900 Politics, you know, everything else, states rights versus this and everything else.

00:58:33.780 But they all agreed that people shouldn't be abused.

00:58:36.220 And so they dropped their hate.

00:58:38.480 They came together, black, white, and every other color and creed.

00:58:41.460 And they joined hands and they went into the dark together and they healed.

00:58:46.540 And he said, look at me right now.

00:58:50.020 Look at me.

00:58:50.460 Look, look at the NFL.

00:58:52.160 He says, I'm getting hit up all over the place.

00:58:54.360 This whole kneeling of the anthem.

00:58:55.820 And he's like, I hate all this stuff.

00:58:57.860 I hate, how can we be so distracted by all this stuff and, and whether we should take

00:59:04.360 statues down or not and all this stuff.

00:59:06.340 And yes, it's so important to some people, but children are being raped by the millions 0.99

00:59:11.640 here in the U.S. and elsewhere.

00:59:14.900 And he said, can we, what if we followed the example of the original Underground Railroad?

00:59:20.120 And he says, what if we got everybody to focus on something that's, that we can all agree,

00:59:25.880 even if it's the only thing we can agree that's wrong, children shouldn't be sold and raped

00:59:29.840 and trafficked.

00:59:31.060 And then we're together in the trenches.

00:59:33.480 And then we learn to serve alongside each other.

00:59:35.900 We learn to serve one another and we start seeing each other as people.

00:59:39.760 And then the healing begins for the nation.

00:59:43.360 And I thought, as he's talking, I said, Glenn Beck told me that a year ago, this very same

00:59:48.600 thing.

00:59:48.840 And this is why Mike Tomlin wrote the forward to this book, because he wants that message

00:59:53.820 out.

00:59:54.380 And that's, in the end, what this book, Slave Stealers, is about.

00:59:57.660 It's these exciting stories of rescue then and now.

01:00:00.840 And in the end, it's, guys, this is real.

01:00:04.880 There's things that are real and there's things that aren't so real.

01:00:08.600 There's enough real things, real suffering.

01:00:11.440 And God is there.

01:00:13.340 When you go to those things, he'll receive you.

01:00:15.840 He'll embrace you.

01:00:16.600 It's hard to go there.

01:00:17.860 You got to open your eyes.

01:00:18.700 You got to take some of your, you're going to lose some innocence by going into this dark

01:00:22.600 place.

01:00:23.020 But God is there and he'll wrap you up and he'll love you for coming there.

01:00:27.120 And he will begin this healing.

01:00:29.460 And if we can spread it to the world, to the nation.

01:00:31.740 I was trapped in a jungle with you.

01:00:46.160 And I was surrounded by, you are so, you are so Christlike with children.

01:00:54.060 I'm, I'm, I'm very awkward around children.

01:00:57.380 I was, I was an awkward kid and I'm an awkward man.

01:01:01.180 And you are so good with children.

01:01:04.480 They just love you and they flock to you.

01:01:06.960 Um, and you brought me to this place that OUR has supported and it's for all these kids that

01:01:16.720 have been rescued where they're happy.

01:01:20.320 They're happy.

01:01:21.760 They've got nothing, but they're happy.

01:01:24.200 Um, and you said, the, um, the sex crimes division is coming out and they're going to show you

01:01:40.140 some things and give you an update on things.

01:01:44.400 And I said, I want to see it all.

01:01:46.100 I want to, I want to see it.

01:01:48.160 I want to see it.

01:01:49.100 Um, and how long was that briefing?

01:01:52.160 20 minutes.

01:01:54.120 And I, I finally just said, turn, turn it off.

01:01:57.600 I can't, I can't.

01:01:58.880 I was a mess.

01:02:00.440 I was a mess.

01:02:02.120 Did interviews with these kids and I couldn't, I couldn't even talk.

01:02:05.600 They were all happy and I couldn't even talk.

01:02:08.440 I was just a wreck.

01:02:13.640 And then you come out and you say,

01:02:17.420 I'm glad he didn't show you the tough stuff.

01:02:29.440 The founders were progressives when it comes to slavery.

01:02:35.240 They were progressives.

01:02:36.300 We're not going to convince anybody.

01:02:38.480 Let's just start dismantling it one piece at a time.

01:02:41.620 Let's first stop the slave trade in a few years. 0.99

01:02:44.560 Then we'll do this in a few years.

01:02:47.420 It didn't work that way, but that's what they were trying to do because they knew they couldn't

01:02:52.720 stop it.

01:02:54.340 The slave trade, the abolitionist, Ben Franklin was called insane at the end of his life.

01:03:02.760 They mocked him and ridiculed him because of slavery and him standing up and being an abolitionist.

01:03:10.480 The Liberty Bell is only known to be the Liberty Bell.

01:03:15.400 It's only called the Liberty Bell.

01:03:17.000 It was just a broken old bell until the abolitionists found it.

01:03:22.800 Proclaim liberty throughout the land.

01:03:25.420 So can we take that old bell and use that?

01:03:27.500 And they took it on tour to proclaim liberty throughout the land.

01:03:31.680 It was an abolitionist message.

01:03:34.500 It wasn't a founding fathers, hey, let's all come together and build a country.

01:03:40.580 That Liberty Bell, we know it because of the abolitionists.

01:03:48.600 People tried everything from plates.

01:03:51.180 You know, the wedgewood plates that they made, anything to get people to see it and to talk

01:03:59.700 about it and to think about it.

01:04:01.560 And they tried bringing you down to the slave ship so you could see it and smell it.

01:04:06.920 That didn't work out well.

01:04:08.020 What is the message, Tim, that can get people to really, I mean, I believe this will come

01:04:22.820 together.

01:04:23.660 I believe this is what we need.

01:04:25.860 This is, this is, I told you, September 11th made me a better man.

01:04:31.740 Barack Obama made me a better man.

01:04:34.020 Donald Trump's making me a better man.

01:04:35.780 The slave trade is making me a better man. 0.94

01:04:43.060 That strife makes us better because it pushes us up against the wall.

01:04:48.880 And if you're pushed hard enough, you'll finally figure out who you are, either somebody who's 0.92

01:04:54.000 living up to their highest potential or a coward. 0.96

01:04:57.320 Some people will choose coward.

01:04:58.800 How, as a nation that is already pushed to the absolute limit and is focused on, on all

01:05:12.960 of the wrong things, how do we get them to look at an even bigger problem that nobody wants

01:05:22.240 to even admit?

01:05:26.580 You know, it's, I don't know the answer, except I do know our job is to just continue telling

01:05:33.600 the story because we do make converts every time we tell the story.

01:05:38.560 We film everything we can.

01:05:40.520 I've written this book for that very purpose.

01:05:43.020 You talk about it.

01:05:44.000 We do have history that gives us some insight.

01:05:46.120 For hundreds of years, no one did anything about slavery, nothing.

01:05:49.900 So when was there a movement in the 19th century?

01:05:52.560 A movement begins and you start getting recruits.

01:05:56.060 Finally.

01:05:56.920 Why?

01:05:57.880 It was the media.

01:05:59.120 It wasn't, it wasn't the government.

01:06:02.780 As much as I love Abe, he didn't just rise up one day and say, hark, I'm liberating everybody.

01:06:09.280 Right.

01:06:09.440 That's not what happened.

01:06:10.080 What happened was a people Frederick Douglass spoke up, Harriet Tubman spoke up, Harriet

01:06:18.500 Beecher Stowe writes her book, Uncle Tom's Cabin.

01:06:21.860 This was the media.

01:06:22.660 They were the media.

01:06:23.380 It was books.

01:06:23.960 It was tracks.

01:06:24.840 It was lectures.

01:06:26.140 And they start speaking.

01:06:28.440 Harriet Beecher Stowe, her story is so amazing. 0.95

01:06:31.160 She was one of the ignorant in the North that didn't believe or know or had heard of it, 0.96

01:06:36.340 but didn't really engage it. 0.99

01:06:37.460 Just like today.

01:06:38.340 People have heard of human trafficking.

01:06:40.260 But they don't want to engage it.

01:06:41.400 They don't really look at it.

01:06:42.480 They know it's there and they move on.

01:06:44.140 She was that person.

01:06:45.040 She admits it.

01:06:46.100 And she crossed, she was in Cincinnati and she crossed the river into the slave territory

01:06:50.820 and stumbles upon slavery.

01:06:52.700 Sees it.

01:06:53.900 Kind of sees it like a lot of people stumble upon our website or stumble upon your show

01:06:57.720 one day and hear this podcast or hear us talking.

01:07:01.460 And she didn't cower.

01:07:04.480 She was one of those that didn't cower, but she said, who am I?

01:07:08.800 This human captivity is before me.

01:07:10.660 Who am I?

01:07:11.680 And she went home and she couldn't sleep.

01:07:13.860 Mike Tomlin had a similar experience.

01:07:15.140 You had a similar experience when you were introduced to this.

01:07:17.680 You couldn't sleep.

01:07:18.540 She couldn't sleep.

01:07:20.020 And she wrote a letter to her sister and said, what do I do?

01:07:24.200 And she was more embarrassed from a Northern perspective because we're complicit in this.

01:07:30.020 We in the North, we know what's happening.

01:07:31.620 We do nothing for hundreds of years.

01:07:34.040 And her sister wrote her back and says, well, what can you do?

01:07:36.780 You're not a, you're not a, an operator.

01:07:38.620 You're not a government official, but you can write.

01:07:41.180 You're a writer.

01:07:42.420 And she stands up and she tells this story.

01:07:44.360 She takes her, her sister, her sister's letter in her hands and crumples it up in her hand.

01:07:48.700 And she says, I will write something.

01:07:50.680 I will, if I live.

01:07:52.620 And she sat down, she researched out what slavery was. 1.00

01:07:56.560 And she wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin.

01:07:58.960 Within a year, two years, millions are reading it.

01:08:01.620 And they're saying, what?

01:08:03.100 This happened?

01:08:03.820 So there is a precedent.

01:08:05.160 We can make converts.

01:08:06.780 And then those people ask the question, what can I do?

01:08:08.760 Well, I'm good at speaking.

01:08:09.700 I'm good at planning events.

01:08:11.000 I'm, I happen to be an operator, a former Navy SEAL.

01:08:13.700 Well, I can go now and everyone does what they can.

01:08:16.520 And then all of a sudden that was the movement that ended slavery.

01:08:20.960 That was the beginning of the end of slavery.

01:08:23.080 It shook the foundation so much that the government had to respond.

01:08:26.720 And when Abraham Lincoln meets Harriet Beecher Stowe for the first time during the war,

01:08:32.260 according to her son, he bends down and grabs her little hand.

01:08:35.480 And he says, so you're the woman who wrote the book that started this war.

01:08:41.160 And so that's where it begins.

01:08:42.700 It has to begin with the people and the media.

01:08:45.260 And, you know, it's, I come home from operations when I'm focused in it and I've seen these

01:08:51.020 kids and I'm weeping and I can't even look at my kids yet.

01:08:54.120 I need to like decompress. 0.96

01:08:55.680 And I go to my newsfeed as the airplane's landing and I'm reading this crap that everyone's 0.99

01:09:01.480 caring about, fake crap. 0.99

01:09:04.500 Really? 1.00

01:09:05.040 You're just so worried about what this person did or who they paid and what they said.

01:09:08.080 And I just saw 12 kids being raped for money and we just barely got them out.

01:09:13.360 I hope they heal.

01:09:14.800 And all you guys are caring about everywhere is, is how outraged you can be because it feels

01:09:19.920 good to you or whatever.

01:09:20.820 And that's what we're fighting.

01:09:23.600 I went to Mexico City with you and your team and I met three people that had been rescued.

01:09:31.280 These amazing women, literal, one of them, the sex slave that is, is Harriet's story. 1.00

01:09:45.640 I mean, it's Harriet's story where her children are being used against her in the horrible story. 0.86

01:09:54.420 Another woman who's a literal labor slave who had a chain around her neck. 1.00

01:10:02.220 I mean, the scars were still around her neck.

01:10:06.720 And I sat there and I, I talked to them about their story and we captured them all on tape

01:10:12.820 and they were, I've never met bigger, stronger women. 1.00

01:10:19.120 And one of the women, the women, the one, one woman with this chain around her neck, I said, 0.87

01:10:25.380 I said, could you just hold up a blank piece of paper?

01:10:29.860 Because we're going to, we're going to put this at the, at the end.

01:10:33.240 And could you just hold up a blank piece of paper and say, my name is, and I was a slave.

01:10:42.320 And then hold up the paper and say, but I am the only author of my story.

01:10:47.600 I write my story.

01:10:52.080 Meaning that that slavery doesn't mean anything.

01:10:54.760 I can choose my own path now.

01:10:57.380 She said, I won't do that.

01:11:00.180 You know the story?

01:11:02.700 I won't do that.

01:11:05.160 I said, okay, why?

01:11:09.380 She said, I wasn't a slave.

01:11:12.760 I wasn't a slave.

01:11:14.260 No one can make me a slave.

01:11:17.780 I was free in my mind.

01:11:19.700 I was not a slave.

01:11:21.740 And I had to change the language for her to say, some would say I was a slave.

01:11:29.400 I mean, that's how strong these people are.

01:11:33.180 Yeah.

01:11:34.280 I get on the plane and I come home.

01:11:36.320 My wife and I are just devastated.

01:11:38.200 I mean, with three days, just devastated.

01:11:40.800 And we had, that weekend was the weekend we were pulling down statues.

01:11:48.100 And I saw college kids saying that they were being oppressed by this statue.

01:11:53.000 And I had just been with slaves.

01:12:00.180 I was, I wanted to run to the bathroom to vomit.

01:12:04.120 I was so disgusted by us.

01:12:08.740 We're living in a world where nothing matters.

01:12:13.860 Literally nothing matters.

01:12:15.440 Truth doesn't matter.

01:12:16.880 Math doesn't matter.

01:12:18.580 Science doesn't matter.

01:12:20.600 Nothing matters.

01:12:22.160 Nobody cares.

01:12:23.140 Principles don't matter.

01:12:24.680 If your party says one thing, you'll turn on a dime because it will help our side beat that side.

01:12:32.220 So nothing matters.

01:12:33.440 And at the same time, the littlest things we are fighting to the death over.

01:12:40.140 On Twitter and Facebook and in our own personal lives, we are willing to fight to the death.

01:12:46.620 We're on the edge of civil war over meaningless stuff.

01:12:52.080 Meaningless.

01:12:54.100 Those statues don't oppress anyone.

01:12:56.620 Put them, I don't care.

01:12:57.460 Melt them down, put them in.

01:12:58.460 It doesn't matter. 0.96

01:13:00.140 It doesn't matter.

01:13:01.340 It doesn't matter.

01:13:03.440 This is happening now.

01:13:18.140 Will you just spend what time we have left?

01:13:23.680 Telling me the personal side of this.

01:13:28.700 Yeah.

01:13:31.120 This was the hardest book I've ever written.

01:13:34.120 It took me three, four years, I think, to tell this story.

01:13:39.280 It hurt.

01:13:40.260 You know, some people ask.

01:13:44.640 It's so weird because every other chapter, you know, alternates between Harriet's story and mine.

01:13:48.480 And it's in no way to compare myself to her.

01:13:50.520 I go on page 15.

01:13:52.600 I say, I'm here to learn at her feet because she did something I need to do.

01:13:57.480 Let me just say something here first.

01:14:00.820 Anybody who says that doesn't know you.

01:14:02.960 You're the most humble, decent man, honorable man, God-fearing man I think I've ever met.

01:14:08.700 Wow.

01:14:09.100 Thanks.

01:14:09.440 And if you die before I do, I will do my best to raise money to build a statue, which I know you would hate.

01:14:17.360 But you will go down in history as, in the league, I think, of a Bonhoeffer.

01:14:25.120 You are remarkable.

01:14:26.380 Wow.

01:14:27.220 Thanks, Glenn.

01:14:28.180 I don't believe that, but it's kind.

01:14:30.180 I know.

01:14:30.440 So, you know, in the early 2000s, I got pulled into the child crimes unit and I was doing different criminal, you know, investigations.

01:14:43.980 And I was scared to death of this.

01:14:46.920 And no one knew what they were doing.

01:14:49.100 Our agency was leading the way.

01:14:50.620 It was great, but no one knew what it was.

01:14:53.540 Human slavery, modern day slavery, children, child slavery, sex slavery. 0.74

01:14:58.680 I mean, you could Google, like I said, you could Google human trafficking and probably the Department of Transportation would come up, you know, trafficking trends or something.

01:15:07.860 Like, no one even knew what it was.

01:15:10.040 And they sent me to undercover school.

01:15:11.560 But it wasn't, it's not new.

01:15:12.820 It's been around forever.

01:15:13.560 It's been around.

01:15:14.160 It'd been so hidden.

01:15:15.560 It'd been so hidden.

01:15:16.360 It wasn't being spoken of.

01:15:18.540 And it started leaking out, you know.

01:15:21.040 It's so hidden.

01:15:21.820 When you get into the underbelly, like you've seen it in places like Thailand and Mexico with me and Haiti, it's in the underbelly.

01:15:28.200 But once you're there, it's thick.

01:15:32.800 And so they take me to undercover school.

01:15:35.560 And they say, we're going to teach you to be an undercover operator, to infiltrate child trafficking rings.

01:15:40.940 I'm scared to death again.

01:15:42.520 And they put me in my first simulator.

01:15:44.360 It's a stage.

01:15:45.440 It's a house that lists a stage.

01:15:46.920 There's cameras.

01:15:47.500 There's black mirrors.

01:15:48.260 And I'm going toe to toe with probably the top undercover operator in the U.S. government.

01:15:52.460 And he doesn't know why I'm coming.

01:15:54.660 They say, he's a general smuggler.

01:15:56.640 Get him to talk about the kids he knows are being sold.

01:15:59.500 Okay.

01:16:00.320 So I have no idea what I'm doing.

01:16:01.620 My stomach's churning.

01:16:02.560 I'm bringing up these godforsaken topics.

01:16:07.880 And this guy says, he cuts.

01:16:10.580 He's turning green.

01:16:11.620 He says, out of roll.

01:16:14.020 He says, I'm not going to do this.

01:16:15.360 And he looks at like someone set him up.

01:16:17.440 He's like, I have a daughter.

01:16:18.780 Is this some kind of joke?

01:16:19.640 I'm not going to talk about this.

01:16:20.820 And he leaves.

01:16:22.740 And I'm sitting there on a stage kind of like this, like all alone.

01:16:26.680 And I think, now what?

01:16:28.560 You know?

01:16:29.080 And this other instructor comes up and puts his arm around me.

01:16:31.640 And he says, hey, look at bottom line.

01:16:33.840 We're pioneering this.

01:16:35.620 We've got to figure this out.

01:16:37.320 This is 2002.

01:16:39.080 Early 2000.

01:16:39.620 Yeah.

01:16:40.820 Holy cow. 0.89

01:16:41.760 Yeah.

01:16:42.040 We didn't.

01:16:42.400 We weren't.

01:16:43.240 We were dabbling.

01:16:44.700 We were doing some things.

01:16:45.960 And again, not to knock the agency I worked for, because they were leading the way in

01:16:50.280 it.

01:16:50.500 But it just wasn't known.

01:16:52.080 There were no things like the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force was just getting

01:16:56.340 up and running at that time.

01:16:58.120 Just barely. 0.93

01:17:00.060 These pedophiles were running amok online. 0.99

01:17:02.040 They were making child porn, and we weren't catching up to them. 0.99

01:17:04.980 And so I had nothing to turn to.

01:17:06.600 I said, where's my manual?

01:17:07.680 Where's my curriculum?

01:17:09.580 And in quiet desperation, I did the best I could.

01:17:13.200 And I bought every book I could on the transatlantic slave trade, because I recognize it as slavery.

01:17:17.540 What I saw was slavery.

01:17:19.000 These kids didn't control themselves.

01:17:20.940 Others owned their bodies.

01:17:22.460 Right.

01:17:22.680 And it's, I suppose we used to see it as prostitution.

01:17:29.040 We would see it as, oh, that, you know, that 16-year-old girl.

01:17:33.320 Well, that 16-year-old girl may have been an eight-year-old runaway. 0.98

01:17:37.620 Exactly what happened.

01:17:38.480 Or kidnapped at five.

01:17:39.700 Correct.

01:17:40.240 And smuggled from Mexico.

01:17:40.920 Exactly.

01:17:41.620 And that's what we were seeing, criminalizing all prostitutes and not understanding the

01:17:44.880 problem.

01:17:45.320 Right, right.

01:17:45.620 And so I started reading everything I can on slavery desperately.

01:17:49.880 And I started reading things and learning things.

01:17:53.560 And these people became my heroes.

01:17:56.400 William Still, the father of the Underground Railroad.

01:17:59.500 Levi Coffin, his undercover operations.

01:18:01.880 I mean, I've used his tactics.

01:18:04.140 You know, how do you get in here?

01:18:05.400 What did he do?

01:18:06.180 He would pose as a slave hunter and become best friends with the slave hunters, with the bounty

01:18:12.320 hunters, you know, and then push them off their track, give them false intelligence.

01:18:19.100 I mean, these guys inspired just the tactical side of it.

01:18:22.480 Harriet Tubman, running missions, going undercover, using code words.

01:18:27.140 I mean, people don't know that Harriet Tubman was the first woman to lead a raid during the

01:18:31.780 Civil War.

01:18:32.760 And she liberated 700 slaves in that raid. 0.93

01:18:35.740 She carried her pistol.

01:18:36.820 I mean, these were, I mean, I'm reading these stories and they're inspiring me.

01:18:39.800 They're my heroes.

01:18:40.500 Um, and then I come across this name, Harriet Jacobs.

01:18:47.580 And something happened to my heart, you know, who is she?

01:18:51.540 She, she wrote the most important book on slavery published in 1861, but she had to use 0.99

01:18:56.800 false names because the people who helped her escape were still alive and they had broken

01:19:01.660 the law.

01:19:02.600 Um, and so by the next generation, that's why it was buried.

01:19:07.760 That's why it was buried.

01:19:08.600 By the next generation, it was cast aside as a copycat of Uncle Tom's Cabin.

01:19:12.680 Oh my gosh.

01:19:13.920 And she was lost to history.

01:19:15.620 Her name was Linda Brent.

01:19:16.800 And that's how she called herself in her book, Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl,

01:19:21.080 published 1861.

01:19:22.700 Linda Brent's not a real person.

01:19:24.780 Academics through, up through our generation.

01:19:26.620 It was a fake book cast aside until, um, this, this one professor, uh, Jean Yellen Fagan, an

01:19:35.240 English professor, started putting the pieces together and, and verified the whole story.

01:19:41.940 Her book came out in 2004.

01:19:44.120 The first book.

01:19:45.260 Have you met her?

01:19:46.320 I have talked to her.

01:19:47.500 I've talked to her.

01:19:48.100 I've read all her stuff, but still her story has not been out publicly.

01:19:52.100 Right.

01:19:52.440 It's, it's still kind of hard to find.

01:19:53.940 I've never heard it.

01:19:55.920 I, you know, me, I, I'm pretty good with history.

01:19:58.280 I know.

01:19:58.760 I've never heard it.

01:20:00.320 And it's one of the most compelling stories.

01:20:02.940 I've read all the stories and to me, it is the most compelling.

01:20:06.320 It's riveting.

01:20:07.340 It's, it's hard.

01:20:07.720 I could not put the book down.

01:20:09.260 Really could not put the book down.

01:20:10.500 Yeah.

01:20:10.740 It's she, her story is just, just unbelievable.

01:20:13.320 And, and the fact that she has these two kids.

01:20:15.480 Now this is where it became so personal to me because as you know, um, I was looking for

01:20:23.100 two kids, uh, that traffickers had held and it's so personal to me because they became

01:20:29.780 my children, uh, that I've adopted, uh, and they just came home a couple of months ago,

01:20:34.560 you know, and I love them as much as I love any of my children, you know, and, and, but

01:20:38.940 during the time I couldn't get to them, I couldn't reach them.

01:20:42.280 And, um, this might sound over the top, but I would took trips.

01:20:45.880 I don't live close to North Carolina, as you know, I live on the West.

01:20:48.480 Uh, and I would take trips to North Carolina just to go to Edenton.

01:20:55.720 Uh, Edenton's a town that hasn't changed from the 19th century.

01:20:59.920 I mean, the, the roads are paved and the cars are modern, modern, but everything is the

01:21:02.880 same.

01:21:03.620 So you look at a map from 19th century, it still looks like that.

01:21:07.580 And I would go there and just walk the streets.

01:21:10.180 I took my daughter at one point, she took the pictures for the book.

01:21:13.200 I wasn't going to write a book.

01:21:14.660 I was going to learn how to rescue these two kids because I didn't know where else to turn

01:21:19.380 and because she had done it.

01:21:21.180 And I, I went to those places.

01:21:23.740 I went to the cemetery where she, she makes this covenant at one point in the book.

01:21:27.660 I write about this.

01:21:28.620 She goes and makes this right before she does the most daring part of her rescue, which I'll

01:21:33.020 let people read about.

01:21:33.840 She goes to the slave cemetery. 0.85

01:21:36.140 Which had been desecrated because of the Nat Turner thing.

01:21:39.540 Yes.

01:21:40.120 They destroyed it.

01:21:41.120 To send a point.

01:21:42.120 Yes.

01:21:42.580 They destroyed it.

01:21:43.800 Um, it was rediscovered in 2001.

01:21:46.440 So all these things were happening as I was starting my career.

01:21:48.800 Like these things were being brought forth out of the dust, you know?

01:21:52.480 Um, and it was rededicated in 2001.

01:21:54.600 So it's still, people don't even in the town, don't even know it's there.

01:21:57.160 They don't really know.

01:21:57.940 I, I had to, it took me forever to find it.

01:22:00.020 And I knelt and I cried and I prayed.

01:22:03.120 Um, it was the most spiritual experience of my life.

01:22:08.580 When I went to the Providence cemetery, this tiny little slave cemetery where Harriet 1.00

01:22:13.120 Jacob's parents are buried.

01:22:14.540 Um, and where she dropped her knees and said, God, I'm going to do this.

01:22:19.940 It might take my life, but I'm going to do this.

01:22:22.620 And I'm not going to tell you what it was.

01:22:24.220 You can, I want people to read what it is that she went and did, um, which led to the

01:22:29.100 liberation.

01:22:30.940 And she was there.

01:22:33.420 I believe in angels.

01:22:34.500 I'm telling you, I was on my knees and I I've taken people, I've taken tours back to

01:22:40.160 Edenton this last summer to, so people could experience this.

01:22:43.220 Uh, and so her story becomes what I'm trying to achieve, what I'm trying to emulate.

01:22:49.200 Um, she was an aftercare.

01:22:51.360 She was a healer.

01:22:52.400 That was her main thing.

01:22:53.500 And as you know, you've been with us, you know, that the aftercare is the most important

01:22:56.360 part of our operation.

01:22:58.180 Um, and adoptions.

01:22:59.660 I mean, she would take these children, fugitive orphans, fugitive slave kids, and find homes 0.96

01:23:05.400 for them in the North.

01:23:06.800 And so everything she did, I just wanted to be, and I still want to do, uh, she is,

01:23:12.880 that's why I said at the beginning of this interview, she is my hero.

01:23:16.540 And, and this book tells this story of how every other chapter you go from her story to

01:23:21.920 mine and the things I'm, I'm extrapolating from history, what she's teaching me and not

01:23:26.740 just her, but the other, the other founders of the underground railroad and that, and that

01:23:30.580 amazing, the abolitionist movement.

01:23:31.880 Um, and you see these parallel stories kind of make their way across until she finds her

01:23:37.260 kids and I find mine.

01:23:39.340 And, and then it kind of, you know, it goes from there, but it's full of these rescue

01:23:44.220 stories and triumphs and tragedies and miracles and, and, and, and God and light and service

01:23:49.720 are the core of the whole book.

01:23:51.440 That's the key to not only finding kids, but to healing ourselves and our communities and

01:23:57.120 our, and our world.

01:23:59.160 It's an honor to know you.

01:24:00.820 Thank you.

01:24:01.300 And I thank you for, uh, safety of my son and, uh, and for some of the worst experiences

01:24:13.140 of my life that have made me a much better man.

01:24:17.100 Thank you.

01:24:18.000 Thank you.

01:24:18.420 Thank you.

01:24:21.440 Just a reminder, make sure you subscribe and pass this on to a friend.

01:24:25.960 If you haven't subscribed already, just click subscribe and rate and review so it can be

01:24:33.100 discovered by other people.

The Glenn Beck Program - September 08, 2018

Ep 1 ｜ Tim Ballard ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

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