The Glenn Beck Program - Ep 103 ｜ Who Is the Real Jesus？｜ Dallas Jenkins ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

00:00:00.000 Well, Easter is this Sunday, and I think about where we were last year, last Easter.

00:00:07.640 We were told by a different president that he thought all of this would be done with COVID by Easter.

00:00:15.840 We're still in it this Easter.

00:00:19.440 I don't want to talk about COVID.

00:00:21.200 I don't want to talk about the news of the day.

00:00:24.380 I want to talk about something really important, and that is Easter.

00:00:27.740 We all love Christmas, but really, Easter is the reason for the season.

00:00:34.100 I look at Christmas even as just the gift and the start of that baby's life that culminates with Easter.

00:00:44.020 So as we sat back with our producers, we were going through the Rolodex on who could really talk about Easter.

00:00:50.840 And for me, there was one name that I really wanted to talk to.

00:00:55.120 And we'll see how this conversation goes.

00:00:58.560 But it's the guy who created an app and a series called The Chosen.

00:01:04.360 It's an entire show about the life of Jesus.

00:01:07.660 It is also the highest crowdfunded TV series or film project of all time.

00:01:12.760 And season two comes out on Easter Sunday.

00:01:16.260 I have watched this with my teenage son.

00:01:19.580 It is phenomenal, really phenomenal.

00:01:23.020 There is nothing that you should spend your time on for entertainment more than The Chosen.

00:01:30.240 You can get the app.

00:01:31.500 It's free.

00:01:32.600 They've made it free for everybody to watch and easy for everybody to watch.

00:01:36.640 It is an app, but they also will be able to throw it right to whatever you have as a screen.

00:01:42.260 So you can watch it on television with your family.

00:01:45.200 The guy we chose to have on today was doing something everybody was told was impossible.

00:01:51.640 He's making Hollywood level movies and TV shows that have a Christian message.

00:01:58.200 But it doesn't feel like a Christian message.

00:02:02.280 You know, it's I hate those.

00:02:04.200 And Johnny, you know, abortion is wrong, right? 1.00

00:02:09.580 Yes, but this evil businessman, I mean, stop, stop.

00:02:15.200 This hasn't been an easy project, but I don't really want to talk to him about the project.

00:02:20.640 I do want you to know that it season two begins on Sunday, Easter Sunday, and you should watch it.

00:02:27.040 You should watch season one and season two.

00:02:29.060 It truly is phenomenal.

00:02:31.000 But I want to talk to him because I think he really understands Jesus, the real Jesus.

00:02:38.920 You know, he's been called a heretic for working with people from other faiths, a blasphemer by people of those faiths.

00:02:45.980 He's upset Christians on all sides.

00:02:48.880 He's he's upset everybody, but he's kept his faith and he's kept his humility and he doesn't judge.

00:02:57.460 He has the real spirit of Christ with him.

00:03:01.440 He also has become a bit of a historian and you will see it in the chosen.

00:03:06.180 It's real.

00:03:07.460 It feels real.

00:03:08.980 It feels exactly what it was at the time of Christ.

00:03:14.120 We're going to just talk about Jesus on the podcast today.

00:03:19.320 Welcome, Dallas Jenkins.

00:03:27.460 Dallas, welcome to the podcast.

00:03:37.000 I, I spent a lot of time with my team trying to figure out who would be the best guest to have the week of Easter.

00:03:45.560 And, you know, we could have gotten a lot of preachers and pastors and, you know, some legendary figures.

00:03:52.000 Um, but I chose you, uh, for a reason, your, uh, series on Jesus called the chosen is phenomenal on several different layers, but it is, it is so, uh, not just historically accurate.

00:04:11.200 It is so unlike the way Hollywood or a church film would ever be made about Jesus.

00:04:19.400 It's real.

00:04:20.720 And that's what I wanted to have a conversation about this Easter week is the real story of Jesus.

00:04:28.040 So welcome.

00:04:30.020 Thank you so much.

00:04:31.100 I'll take your introduction as, uh, we, we could have gotten someone great, but we, we chose you.

00:04:35.240 I'll, uh, no, we, no, we could have gotten somebody legendary, but we have you because you are a great, great person that has a very different, uh, angle to the, the, the traditional way of telling the Christ story.

00:04:53.960 Does that connect with you?

00:04:56.180 Absolutely.

00:04:56.840 And I, and I appreciate you having me on and it's an, it's a, it's a privilege to talk to you again, but yeah, that's, I think this Easter is.

00:05:03.120 As we launched season two, uh, it's bringing up all of these conversations again, and especially Easter of 2021.

00:05:11.520 I mean, coming off of the last year, the, the, the discussion of who Jesus is and who Jesus was, was he when he was on earth, what his mission was, what our mission should be, I believe has gotten quite, uh, skewed, uh, in, in a lot of the pop culture dialogue.

00:05:29.320 Yeah.

00:05:29.440 And I, I, I will tell you this, I go to a very traditional kind of service every Sunday, you know, we still wear a suit and we sing from the hymn book and everything else.

00:05:39.560 Um, but I think that is changing and part of that is good.

00:05:45.520 It needs to change the, the, the church is outside of those four walls.

00:05:51.480 Uh, that's just a, like a quick pit stop to get refueled, to be able to make it the rest of the week and do the right things.

00:06:00.340 Um, so now you're looking at a, uh, a country that it's membership to churches in the last 12 months is now down by 50%.

00:06:12.380 I don't know if that's going to recover as quickly as it went away.

00:06:18.740 We've many people that were going were, uh, uh, uh, they've now broken the habit of going every Sunday, going to church, uh, and, and the millennials in particular are looking for something, what they would describe as more real, more authentic.

00:06:37.440 So let's start with that.

00:06:40.620 Uh,

00:06:42.380 Yeah, I, it's a really interesting question.

00:06:47.280 I think the same question applies to things like movie theaters is, is the desire, the pent up desire going to cause people to be even more excited to get to church or to movie theaters because they've been denied it for the last year, or is it going to cause people to get into the habit of living without it?

00:07:06.460 I will say this, um, some of these things, some of these things that have happened as a result of the, of the lockdowns and mandates and all that stuff, most of which I'm significantly opposed to as a libertarian.

00:07:19.300 And some of, some of, some of it has, has weeded out some of the, the bad, you know, which, which, which, which, which can be a good thing.

00:07:26.900 And I think that's even true of some churches, um, you know, I'm a passionate evangelical church goer myself, but there are probably some churches that needed to not survive, um, which I think is okay.

00:07:38.660 But what I've seen with The Chosen is that when the pandemic hit and we decided to make the show free, uh, we were only going to do it for a few weeks, just kind of as a goodwill gesture.

00:07:52.640 And the moment we did it, not only did our viewership, you know, go through the roof, but our, our income, uh, quadrupled.

00:08:01.660 And that's what we call God's impossible math.

00:08:04.060 We made, we made the show free and we ended up getting far more income than we expected because we thought we would lose money.

00:08:10.420 And the reason is, and the reason I bring this up is because we hear over and over again, I need this now more than ever.

00:08:17.700 I need God more than ever.

00:08:19.580 I'm pursuing my Bible more than ever.

00:08:22.220 I'm pursuing Jesus more than ever.

00:08:24.140 So that part of it, I do believe is causing a return more than ever, not just the show,

00:08:31.040 but I think the desire for Jesus, the desire for God, I don't know about church, but I do know about that.

00:08:38.440 The relationship with God is increased.

00:08:41.040 Yes.

00:08:41.560 And this is where Thomas Paine got in trouble and was misunderstood.

00:08:44.940 He's known as the first, you know, America's first atheist.

00:08:48.180 He wasn't.

00:08:48.960 I have the letter that he wrote from France that says, no, no, no, they have a problem with God because in France, they associate God with the church and the church with the state.

00:09:01.260 So I'm just trying to separate that tangled mess.

00:09:05.620 And I think that's what we're hearing from, you know, millennials and those who are just coming of age now,

00:09:15.560 that they they have a real need and a desire to connect with something bigger than themselves, a desire to connect with God.

00:09:26.100 But all of the traditional ways of connecting don't appeal to them at all.

00:09:33.580 That's absolutely right.

00:09:34.860 And it's why they are finding their new God in certain political movements, certain social movements, social justice.

00:09:43.840 Yeah.

00:09:44.660 And I'm seeing and I'm sure you're seeing this as well, this really weird thing that's happening where the roles are being reversed.

00:09:52.040 When I was growing up as a believer, we were the ones, the Christians were the ones who were protesting and trying to cancel people. 1.00

00:09:58.560 And then we learned our lesson and stopped doing that because we realized it just, A, it doesn't work.

00:10:03.260 B, it's not a good look.

00:10:06.440 That's not really biblical.

00:10:07.660 And it's not a good thing.

00:10:08.420 It's not a good thing.

00:10:09.960 It's, you know, it's like the argument.

00:10:12.700 I mean, you're a libertarian and a Christian, so you'll understand this.

00:10:16.740 I've never been against gay marriage.

00:10:18.680 That's between you and God.

00:10:22.080 The marriage license involves the state and the state has no place in that.

00:10:28.660 I mean, even in my relationship, I don't want the state involved in mine.

00:10:32.940 And we've chosen these really poor arguments that have boxed us into this kind of people that I don't think we are and I don't want to be.

00:10:44.900 No, and I think when marriage debates came up, one of the things I would sometimes say was we made this mistake a long time ago when we, back when we were a more puritanical society and were a more Christian nation.

00:11:00.940 And we did think, we did kind of confuse this whole, we want freedom, but not totally because we want the government to be the one that arbitrates marriage and approves of our faith.

00:11:12.380 I don't think we saw the future. 0.96

00:11:13.780 I don't think we saw that eventually that's going to come back and bite us in the butt. 0.82

00:11:17.460 And I think it has.

00:11:19.800 But that's what's happening now in reverse is this belief that when I want something to be true in society, when I want something better for society, the government is the best way to enact that.

00:11:32.880 And that is, I think, in many ways, their form, someone's form of religion.

00:11:40.400 I need security in my faith.

00:11:44.120 And so it used to be done poorly by using the government to enact literal religion.

00:11:51.100 Now it's being done to enact a different kind of religion.

00:11:54.480 And both things were anathema to what Jesus was preaching.

00:11:59.600 He did not shy away from anything controversial, but it was never about the system.

00:12:06.040 It was always about the heart.

00:12:07.220 Yeah, and I think this is going to come back and backfire eventually in a couple of ways.

00:12:14.760 I think it's going to backfire just like it did on Christians that were like, we're going to stop drinking because the state's going to help us out.

00:12:21.960 I mean, that just was horrible.

00:12:23.480 Right.

00:12:23.640 And it you become this you become this I don't know, the church lady.

00:12:31.420 You know what I mean?

00:12:32.340 And nobody wants to be the old church lady from Dana Carvey. 0.97

00:12:35.780 And I think that is going to happen eventually to the left.

00:12:38.960 But it because it's with the government and it is much more in bed, the social justice and even climate change has is requiring now a total adherence.

00:12:54.000 Or you're a blasphemer, you're a heretic, and it is a religion. 0.83

00:13:00.100 But because it's because that religion and that belief is now coexisting with the government, you're going to end up with France in the end.

00:13:12.840 French Revolution.

00:13:14.980 Yeah.

00:13:15.180 And I think this applies to the left and the right.

00:13:19.540 And so I, you know, I have I'm looking at our even just our show, our cast and crew, probably it's probably split down the middle of Christian, non-Christian, left, right, all of that.

00:13:32.020 And I say it to both both my friends on the left and the right.

00:13:35.680 It's the beauty of being a libertarian.

00:13:37.900 If you find yourself offending both multiple times.

00:13:41.940 But I'm saying that Twitter has become the church lady.

00:13:46.220 They just they just don't use the word church.

00:13:48.140 And and lest lest we criticize them too much and call them the judgmental prudes, lest we, you know, let's remember, we sometimes like to use the government for our advantage, too, just because we justify it by saying, but it's a good thing.

00:14:04.100 It's what the Bible writes.

00:14:06.080 Right.

00:14:06.660 And God doesn't want us to be, you know, doing smoking marijuana.

00:14:10.920 Therefore, the government should.

00:14:13.480 And I'm like, you're starting your sentences the exact same way your opponents are.

00:14:17.500 Exactly right.

00:14:19.280 That's let's really be cautious, because the fill in the blank of what we want the government and what morality we want the government to act out is is is always going to change dependent on who happened to be elected.

00:14:31.160 And I don't think that's a world you want to be in.

00:14:33.560 And go ahead.

00:14:35.460 You're you're seeing this years and Christians are learning this right now. 0.73

00:14:41.240 We're seeing what it's like to be the minority or at least in the governing sense that we are the minority.

00:14:50.380 The corporations seem to be on the other side.

00:14:52.980 So now we feel it the way it must have felt to others when we were doing this.

00:14:59.060 And what's amazing to me is how many people are not learning their lesson.

00:15:04.760 How many people on our side are saying we've got to take it back so we can get rid of all these people.

00:15:10.900 You're like, wait, that that doesn't work.

00:15:13.740 That's the kind of stuff that leads to death camps or concentration camps, because at some point you can't convince a very large portion of the population to go along with you.

00:15:26.380 And so then you're left with, well, then what do I do?

00:15:29.780 And if you've gone down this road too far, the only thing is, is they're standing in the way of progress or they're standing in the way of the Lord.

00:15:38.000 And so they have to be eliminated.

00:15:40.380 That's that's where horrible, horrible things happen.

00:15:45.500 Yeah.

00:15:46.160 And and here's the other thing.

00:15:48.660 Jesus didn't try to eliminate horrible things from happening.

00:15:52.860 In fact, he promised them.

00:15:54.540 And and so every time that his followers would say, well, when are we going to overthrow these people or when are we going to rid ourselves of these enemies?

00:16:03.100 And in fact, speaking as a as a libertarian who hates most taxes, taxes, his disciples even asked Jesus, what do we do about all this onerous taxation?

00:16:11.620 And Jesus's answer on these questions was always, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's whatever.

00:16:15.520 Just pay under Caesar what Caesar's I'm not I don't care about that.

00:16:18.580 He he really it was it's a lesson for me, but I think it's a lesson for everybody is he always was like.

00:16:23.700 Yeah, yeah, that's just not why I'm here.

00:16:26.840 Let's let's focus on the heart.

00:16:28.400 Where are you going to be?

00:16:29.680 Where's your heart?

00:16:30.660 Regardless of the circumstances, because the circumstances are going to be psycho.

00:16:35.580 There's going to look different.

00:16:37.460 Yeah, they're going to be the cycle forever.

00:16:39.460 Yeah.

00:16:40.180 So I can tell my let's let's let's let's talk about.

00:16:44.380 Let's talk about that difference in Jesus here, because if you don't and I think this is something that the left understood through Hollywood, that they could come in and change the heart.

00:16:56.740 They could change and soften the heart on things by telling particularly different, you know, a particular story in a very heartwarming way.

00:17:06.520 You could change people in the course of a society.

00:17:11.800 And they have done that.

00:17:13.960 However, I don't think they're doing that really now, at least as effectively as they used to be.

00:17:19.780 And conservatives and Christians have always been bad at that until really.

00:17:25.560 Honestly, you are, I think, the best example of a storyteller to fit the time and to tell these stories in a way that I've not seen them told before.

00:17:37.080 They're still true to the story, but they they're not traditional.

00:17:42.780 And so they don't they affect you deeper, especially if you're somebody who doesn't doesn't like all that churchy stuff.

00:17:50.460 Yeah, I think part of the reason why the chosen is resonating with both believers and nonbelievers is because in many ways it's a response to or at least the result of a lot of my experience as a strong evangelical Christian my whole life.

00:18:09.800 And my dad, same thing.

00:18:11.180 My dad wrote the Left Behind books.

00:18:12.560 You know him.

00:18:13.140 You've had him on your show 25 years ago last year was the anniversary of Left Behind.

00:18:18.760 And so it's been this really amazing full circle thing to see this kind of happening again, where the Bible being brought to life in a fresh way.

00:18:28.060 But what I think is resonating with people is that I'm the chosen is the result of two things.

00:18:35.040 One, watching really great television and movies my whole life, but most of them, nearly all of them not made by Christians. 1.00

00:18:43.720 I've learned a lot of nearly every good storytelling technique that, you know, was ultimately came from the Greeks and came from, you know, Aristotle and whatnot, but and came from Old Testament.

00:18:57.220 But most of it has come from Hollywood.

00:19:00.240 They are brilliant storytellers.

00:19:01.740 And so I don't shun them like a lot of others, you know, but like when I was growing up, again, I was part of a strong Christian or, you know, culture that was rejecting. 0.90

00:19:13.160 Yeah.

00:19:13.480 And so that was a mistake.

00:19:15.340 The response to that was to make Christian entertainment. 0.51

00:19:20.000 But when you reject Hollywood in all of its good and bad, you're rejecting that includes the good.

00:19:25.760 And so Christian entertainment has largely been really bad, including some of the stuff I've done myself. 0.91

00:19:30.180 I don't I don't hold myself exempt from that point being.

00:19:33.760 The Chosen is in many ways like a I don't I don't want to be what I've seen before, particularly in Jesus portrayals. 0.56

00:19:42.860 I mean, how many Jesus movies and miniseries have you seen as a believer in Jesus, Glenn, going, gosh, that's not a Jesus I would ever follow.

00:19:50.380 He's boring.

00:19:51.220 Right.

00:19:51.440 He's right.

00:19:52.500 He's British.

00:19:53.200 You know, not that I'm against Brits, but I don't want my Jesus to be British. 1.00

00:19:57.600 And I know it's so strange.

00:19:59.520 I don't know why Hollywood always makes everyone even the Germans in World War Two were British in our movies.

00:20:05.320 It's crazy.

00:20:05.880 But I digress.

00:20:06.740 Go ahead.

00:20:07.400 Right.

00:20:08.020 So I I just I always watch Jesus projects going, all right, here we go. 0.51

00:20:13.960 My hero finally portrayed.

00:20:16.580 Oh, he's so boring, you know, or, oh, I don't identify with anybody that he's surrounding himself with.

00:20:23.860 And I can't identify with him because he's perfect.

00:20:25.820 And he doesn't really make for a great protagonist because he doesn't have anything to learn like any good protagonist.

00:20:32.020 So the chosen is, again, I think a solution or attempt, at least an attempt to be a solution to a lot of problems that I've faced just growing up in that.

00:20:40.480 I never had good entertainment that that matched my principles, my values.

00:20:47.360 Yeah, exactly.

00:20:48.560 Exactly.

00:20:49.040 So, Dallas, let me let me go back to Jesus here.

00:20:51.880 Let's talk about him as a as a role model.

00:20:56.220 A lot of people on on both sides get him very, very wrong because he wasn't about hell and damnation.

00:21:06.660 He was about repentance and forgiveness and quietly stating, with an exception of making money off of God and doing something to a child.

00:21:18.040 He's very, very mild on on everything.

00:21:21.740 And he's only asking for you to change your heart.

00:21:27.060 And and we lose this as Christians because we fall back on the have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?

00:21:35.800 Then I guess when you say, yes, it doesn't matter what you do, even after that, you're good, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

00:21:44.760 It's the changing of the heart.

00:21:47.920 Now, on the left, people are saying that he's a socialist.

00:21:53.500 He would be out marching with BLM.

00:21:56.100 I don't see Jesus as a sign carrier or a an organizer of of protests.

00:22:05.100 So who was he?

00:22:07.660 Yeah, that's a great question.

00:22:09.080 And I'm and I'm not just saying this to be cautious.

00:22:12.040 I'm saying this because it's true.

00:22:14.020 I'm not trying to land in the middle here, but it is absolutely true that both sides, I believe, have a tendency to get this wrong.

00:22:20.360 And I've been on both sides of these of these arguments, Jesus absolutely believed in the least of these, absolutely served the least of these, absolutely abhorred discrimination in any form.

00:22:36.380 Everything that I see in in protests over the last year, I shouldn't say everything, but a good chunk of what I've seen in protests from both sides, some of which I've agreed with, some of which I haven't.

00:22:47.820 But I think I believe Jesus would, for the most part, agree with on a I even don't like to use a word agree with as though he's agreeing with someone else's position.

00:22:58.020 He sets the positions.

00:22:59.660 We agree or disagree with him.

00:23:01.320 But so I want to make that clear.

00:23:02.940 But absolutely caring for the poor, absolutely serving others.

00:23:09.200 Absolutely.

00:23:10.120 I mean, if you're a boss of a company and you're not taking care of your people, you're not doing what Jesus wanted.

00:23:17.100 If you're a husband, if I mean, when we talk about racial discrimination, gender discrimination, all of those things, absolutely.

00:23:26.080 Jesus was all about ridding his people of any of those prejudices to an extreme degree.

00:23:36.020 It is the it.

00:23:37.700 OK, go ahead.

00:23:38.300 But well, I was just going to say the big the big the big but is never did he use governmental or religious systems.

00:23:47.680 To enact those truths.

00:23:49.640 He always said those religious systems, those government systems are traps.

00:23:54.160 You will start to rely on them instead of your heart.

00:23:57.180 And he specifically called out the Pharisees all the time.

00:23:59.760 And even though he he said, do what they say, they're they're they're they're believing the correct things, but not what they do and not how they act it out.

00:24:08.620 And he would say to them, you are your heart is not your heart has been consumed by the law, not by the heart.

00:24:16.360 Your heart is not for the people.

00:24:18.180 So Jesus absolutely was a revolutionary.

00:24:20.820 He absolutely was a let's break down the walls.

00:24:24.160 But they were never physical walls.

00:24:26.900 They were all wasn't. 0.84

00:24:28.680 He wasn't a revolutionary in the way we think of revolutionaries now, like Che.

00:24:35.140 You know, when he stood on race, that's really one of the big points of the story of the Good Samaritan.

00:24:42.820 The Good Samaritan was Samaritan. 0.93

00:24:45.300 Samaritans were not liked. 1.00

00:24:48.520 They were an enemy. 0.96

00:24:49.840 They were below, you know, the Jews. 1.00

00:24:53.500 And we just don't associate with them at all.

00:24:57.520 His point is this Samaritan is good because of what his heart is.

00:25:03.520 Judge him by the character of his soul, not by where he came from or what he looks like.

00:25:10.180 Yeah, and he also said he referred to a she, the first person he revealed himself as the Messiah to publicly was a woman, a Samaritan woman who was not only looked down on by Jews, was looked down on by fellow Samaritans as someone who had had five previous husbands.

00:25:29.260 She was out at a well in the middle of the day, the middle of the heat.

00:25:32.740 Women always got their water in the morning before it got too hot. 1.00

00:25:35.380 She was out there in the middle of the day because in the heat because she was outcast.

00:25:39.720 She was not with the other women.

00:25:41.760 And that's who Jesus met with in the middle of the day to give some truth that changed history and revealed himself as the Messiah.

00:25:51.080 And she was in many ways the very first evangelist about Jesus being the Messiah.

00:25:54.720 And then they ended up spending three days in Samaria, a place where they were absolutely racist towards, the Jewish people were, and vice versa, very much prejudiced towards.

00:26:06.080 And he kept, that's what he was doing.

00:26:07.360 He was like, I'm going to the places no one else goes.

00:26:10.140 And I'm talking to the people no one else talks to.

00:26:13.220 And again, to illustrate, he didn't do it through governmental or religious systems.

00:26:18.280 He was always doing it outside the system.

00:26:20.000 And that's what caused him to die, is that's what killed him, is the systems were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, don't, don't, don't upset the apple cart here.

00:26:29.680 But he wasn't also doing it to try to make, I mean, he was obviously trying to make a point, but he wasn't doing it like, I'm going to strategically go over here and be with these people.

00:26:41.080 So that way people will see, and then I'm going to go over here.

00:26:44.280 It was, he was led by the problem and he was doing no more than loving people.

00:26:52.020 Yeah, I would say there's one exception to that, which is, which we cover in season two, the healing at the pool of the Bethesda.

00:27:01.620 One of the things we cover in episode four of season two is, and you see it, glimpses of it in the trailer that's out, is there is a scenario that I believe that he healed this man on the Sabbath.

00:27:13.620 And told him to pick up his mat on the Sabbath, when he probably could have just, the guy had been, had been crippled for over 30 years.

00:27:21.680 He could have done it the next day, the guy would have been fine with that too.

00:27:24.940 I do believe he did that on Sabbath just to, to, we say in the show, stir up the water a little bit, but, but to kind of stir up a little bit of, of, again, not, not, I don't think for just for the purpose of doing that,

00:27:38.120 but to make the point that same thing with his disciples eating on, on Sabbath, uh, which was also set the apple cart was whether or not he did it on purpose to start the problem that I don't know.

00:27:50.320 But I do know that he certainly didn't care that he was upsetting some people.

00:27:55.060 Well, again, isn't that, wasn't that more about the law?

00:27:59.520 I mean, if your ox is in the mire, you know, I know the Sabbath, but we've got to do God's work and we have to do the things that we have to do.

00:28:09.800 So it may not even been about stirring things up as much as this is God's work, helping people, good people, loving people.

00:28:19.180 That's God's work.

00:28:20.740 And we should always be about God's work.

00:28:22.980 Yeah. And how can you let a day of the week interfere with the ultimate goal of all of this, even the ultimate goal of the law, the law that God established for the Israelites in the old Testament, which was quite restrictive, was in many ways to show their need for a savior.

00:28:40.140 The fact that they can't live up to the law.

00:28:42.980 Um, and, but, but what the, what the Pharisees did was they took the law, much of which was intended for good.

00:28:47.520 And then they even added to it, they added non-biblical, uh, non-Torah laws, traditional laws, oral traditional laws that became scripture.

00:28:57.760 Um, not literally, they became gospel-like, uh, to these, to these people.

00:29:02.400 And, um, and I think he was, he came and went, no, you're, you've, you've completely missed the point.

00:29:08.540 Now, you know, I, I left the room and now I got to clean it back up again.

00:29:13.040 It's amazing to me that you would say this.

00:29:15.040 I just read an article where they said, with all of the things that we're now doing by law through administration, uh, you know, through the, you know, uh, the SEC and, uh, and the FCC and all of these, all of these agencies under any administration, the constitution has gone from a couple of pages to 3000 pages.

00:29:42.480 And I'm sure most of it was done with good intent, but you've long the way, lost the entire point of our constitution.

00:29:52.100 And that's what Jesus was saying about God's law.

00:29:55.420 You've missed the point.

00:29:56.820 And they'd literally done what you just said.

00:30:00.240 They had added pages.

00:30:01.400 I mean, that's the thing.

00:30:02.640 It had gotten more and more and more to where, well, we've said you shouldn't work on Sabbath because that's a day of rest.

00:30:08.240 Good thing.

00:30:09.720 But, well, what, what constitutes working?

00:30:11.900 Well, I mean, and now, and then it got to the place where people were so burdened by it that it was costing them in many times it was costing them their lives.

00:30:19.960 They would, they would be hungry because they couldn't, you know, they were being taxed by the Romans, oppressed by the Romans.

00:30:24.800 So they couldn't, they didn't have as much money.

00:30:26.820 So now they can't even go try to get food on a certain day.

00:30:30.020 I mean, and, and, and so that's why when Jesus was stopped by the Pharisees, which is another scene we cover in season two, uh, where his disciples are eating on, on Sabbath or picking the heads of grain and the Pharisees come in and go, whoa, you're not allowed to do that.

00:30:43.540 How can you let your, your followers do that?

00:30:45.240 What kind of Messiah are you?

00:30:46.980 And he says, uh, you know, Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

00:30:51.560 Or am I getting that reversed?

00:30:53.420 Yeah.

00:30:53.860 Sabbath.

00:30:54.240 That's correct.

00:30:54.460 Yeah.

00:30:54.700 Sabbath was made for the man.

00:30:56.160 Yeah.

00:30:56.580 Yeah.

00:30:57.160 Yeah.

00:30:57.440 And, uh, and, and, and then of course he mentioned that he's Lord of the Sabbath and he can, you know, he, he's the one who, who can decide how the, how this is interpreted, but he brings up even King David, King David from the old Testament where he says, don't you remember guys when he was desperate and he was starving and he needed food and he actually ate the bread of the presence,

00:31:14.840 which was like holy bread.

00:31:16.240 And he ate it on this day.

00:31:17.800 Like you're, and he could be reminded of that.

00:31:20.400 And they're like, what are you saying?

00:31:21.300 You're like David.

00:31:22.420 And, uh, he's like, actually I'm greater than David.

00:31:24.780 You know, that's, that was when this all started to go.

00:31:26.620 But the point being is he constantly was saying, you can't let the law become the thing.

00:31:33.580 The law is merely a guide, you know, a guardrail, but it's ultimately about the heart.

00:31:38.460 Um, Dallas, um, Gandhi, I, I, I really like Gandhi, although parts of his life, he was an incredible racist.

00:31:49.080 Um, it's kind of like Churchill.

00:31:50.900 I really liked Churchill until you read about what he did in India.

00:31:54.200 Uh, you know, everybody has a dark side to them and it's, uh, the point of life is, are you getting better or are you getting worse?

00:32:01.980 Um, but, but Gandhi, um, he said, uh, you know, I love this Jesus of the Christians.

00:32:11.240 I love him.

00:32:12.480 I just have a problem with some of his followers and I kind of feel the same way at times.

00:32:17.780 And I'm sure some of his followers feel the same way about me as well.

00:32:20.780 Um, but he, in the end was appealing to Christians because they understood that peaceful site, same thing as Martin Luther King.

00:32:33.360 When you look at history, um, you have another figure from the same time period and that's Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

00:32:41.900 Um, and I don't know if Dietrich Bonhoeffer really understood or not, um, but he believed that Gandhi was right.

00:32:53.360 Jesus was right. 0.95

00:32:54.400 And it is this, this peaceful non-compliance that is the, the secret, um, and it's truly has to be based in love and really following the example set by Christ.

00:33:08.400 Dietrich Bonhoeffer didn't make an impact because the churches had already been lost.

00:33:14.980 The spirit of that, of Christianity, if you will, Judeo-Christian principles had so been almost eradicated, uh, in society.

00:33:28.160 And most people just started closing down.

00:33:31.120 It was too late for them.

00:33:32.440 Um, do you, are, are we approaching the same kind of situation to where we've got to work on the human heart now?

00:33:44.980 Because there comes a time when it's not there anymore.

00:33:49.160 It's not, you don't just get it.

00:33:51.500 Uh, it requires some work to keep it going on.

00:33:55.640 Yeah, I, so I think the answer is definitely yes, that we are approaching a time in which the church, uh, the, the, the, and by that, I mean, the, the large church, the, the, the Christy bride.

00:34:10.000 Yeah.

00:34:10.560 Um, are losing or possibly have lost at that, certainly lost the majority influence.

00:34:17.600 Um, I'm sure there's, there's of course still some influence, but it's, it's not that it's not influence I'm, I'm talking about.

00:34:24.720 It's, it's the, I talked to many Christians who say, uh, yeah, the time for peaceful, you know, talking to the other side.

00:34:33.960 And they're just, they no longer believe it.

00:34:37.500 I'm not saying the majority, but there are many Christians that no longer believe that had Jesus is enough that, uh, you know, the example of Martin Luther King is just not, uh, you're not able to apply that now and make any headroom.

00:34:55.420 And I think that's dead wrong.

00:34:57.580 Yeah.

00:34:58.160 So, yeah, I understand what you're saying.

00:34:59.500 I, I, I would agree with that.

00:35:00.740 I, I, I rarely compare Jesus to any other earthly, uh, because it's, because it's so, he was on about something so much bigger, but I, I, I definitely get what you're saying.

00:35:13.100 Um, I just don't believe there's, I don't believe there's a choice in the matter.

00:35:17.460 And I don't believe Jesus gave that choice.

00:35:20.540 He specifically said, there will be trouble.

00:35:22.620 You will be persecuted.

00:35:24.080 This is not going away.

00:35:25.540 It's only going to get worse.

00:35:27.020 And the only chance you have, the only hope you have is your human heart and, excuse me, and in your relation and in your relationship with others.

00:35:36.400 And that's why he kept saying, you know, love others, love, you know, uh, serve others.

00:35:41.200 It was always about, um, it started with worshiping God.

00:35:45.480 Of course, it starts with the vertical, um, towards God and, and, and, and the repentance and the acceptance and the surrender to God.

00:35:52.020 But how we live it out, I'm telling, I mean, I just, I can't emphasize it enough.

00:35:56.300 It was always about the heart and the personal, including his miracles.

00:36:01.440 That's one of the things that we really focus on in the show is, and that's one of the things that I really, I think, discovered as I'm doing the more research I do.

00:36:09.640 And the more I try to understand this man that I'm portraying in the show is even his miracles were small.

00:36:15.960 Um, he occasionally did, you know, the feeding of the 5,000, for example, but more often than not, I mean, his first public miracle was a favor for his friends because his mom asked him to, um, you know, we, when you, when you realize that what, what Emmanuel means, Emmanuel means God with us, which is traditionally a Christmas term.

00:36:35.620 Um, but it really applies to who Jesus was all the time.

00:36:40.060 He was with us and his miracles, he wasn't up there on stage doing magic tricks to wow the crowds to, to prove to, you know, mass amount of people who he was.

00:36:51.780 He was, he was, it was one-on-one and it was, it was always small and he would always use, um, uh, innocuous things to do it like mud to, to heal a man's sight.

00:37:03.700 Um, you know, just, uh, little things that, that are very common that he would do to change someone's life.

00:37:11.620 And that's the thing that just wrecks me every time.

00:37:14.280 And I get emotional even thinking about it is some of the scenes that we've portrayed, even the way that I portray them as a filmmaker.

00:37:20.300 I oftentimes will kind of like shrink the, the, the visual and, and get it to where it's, it's Jesus's eyes and, and, and the recipient of the miracles.

00:37:30.580 Yes.

00:37:31.160 And, and you're seeing reactions of a person and how the miracle is impacting them, not just the recipient of the miracle, but the observer.

00:37:38.860 So Matthew, the tax collector, for example, in season one, his journey accelerates because of what he witnesses Jesus do to someone else personally.

00:37:47.760 That's the huge thing.

00:37:49.000 And so Jesus always was a lot of times getting away from the crowds to, to, to be with one person or just 12 people.

00:37:57.880 It was always so personal.

00:37:59.260 So that's the thing that I, where I fully agree with you is, um, we don't have a choice in the matter.

00:38:06.240 This world is not our home.

00:38:07.960 It's going to be this way until God's kingdom comes.

00:38:11.100 We are only, it's, things are only going to get worse externally.

00:38:16.200 Um, I believe that.

00:38:17.840 And, uh, so whether we believe that or not, or whether we believe it looks like what it did 2000 years ago, all of that is up for debate.

00:38:25.580 But Jesus over and over and over and over and over again, your heart, your heart, your heart.

00:38:30.400 It's, it's, it's about me and you, this relationship here.

00:38:33.860 So when we say, well, that's not enough, peaceful protest isn't enough.

00:38:37.040 Peaceful noncompliance is enough.

00:38:38.180 We got to storm the gates.

00:38:39.060 I just go, well, not if you want to follow Jesus's example.

00:38:42.780 Yeah, exactly.

00:38:43.320 Right.

00:38:43.800 And I, you know, it's, it also goes in another direction.

00:38:48.260 Um, you know, it sounds kind of defeatist coming from Jesus where he says, you know, the poor will always be among you.

00:38:55.100 Um, wait a minute.

00:38:58.020 He cares about the poor.

00:38:59.080 Why isn't he, why isn't he telling us to get together?

00:39:02.660 Because there is there, I don't know what it is, but this condition of, of being poor.

00:39:09.060 Is never going to be cured when, when we have a war against poverty, we can do everything we should be doing.

00:39:17.300 We can do so much more as a people through our churches personally, but I've never felt charitable on April 15th.

00:39:26.180 Never.

00:39:27.620 Uh, and that's not a day of charity to me.

00:39:30.500 Uh, and there is something about doing it individually and not worried about the global picture.

00:39:38.180 It's, it's truly one-on-one.

00:39:41.720 Yeah, that's a great point.

00:39:43.140 And you think about, um, how much, uh, money and time and charitable, uh, energy has been spent when some of these big, um, organizations, charitable organizations like Compassion International or World Vision or whatever.

00:39:58.340 When, when, what, what do they do to get the, to generate the most income?

00:40:02.720 They, they, they have you sponsor one child.

00:40:05.300 They send you a picture of somebody because they know that that's actually going to generate more than when you're trying to, if you think about the, the, the mass, the mass all at once, it's overwhelming.

00:40:15.280 Yeah, you give up.

00:40:16.160 Um, and when you mentioned that, that quote from Jesus, which is such a wonderful quote where he says the poor, you know, the, well, it's not, I shouldn't say it's a wonderful quote.

00:40:23.740 It's a sad quote, but when he says the poor will always be poor, you remember what he's, what he's responding to.

00:40:29.460 He's, he's actually defending someone who's spending tons of money on perfume to pour on his feet.

00:40:36.240 He's actually defending.

00:40:38.060 We always say today we are, we're always criticizing anyone who, you know, who owns something fancy or even sometimes we even criticize people in the church for, uh, some sort of, um, elaborate presentation.

00:40:50.980 And I'm, I personally, I do advocate for efficiency and our, and it's good stewardship of whatever money we have.

00:40:57.520 And I don't want God, you know, Christ turning over the tables and in my house anytime soon.

00:41:02.020 But Jesus is something we oftentimes forget is that Jesus was actually defending a woman who's pouring expensive perfume on his feet and saying the poor will, there will always be poor.

00:41:13.920 Let's, let's, uh, thank her and reward her for her devotion.

00:41:17.640 And the reason that he was honoring it is because it was an outpouring of her devotion and this was the way to do it.

00:41:23.620 Nicodemus, the same thing, Nicodemus at the end of Christ's life, when he gave so much to the, to the spices and the perfumes, it was a visual representation of his desperation and his worship of God.

00:41:35.300 Now, maybe you might find this blasphemous.

00:41:38.460 I don't know, but I, uh, I hope not. 0.95

00:41:40.380 Uh, I always am, uh, because I've had the, uh, experience of growing up poor, then working, uh, my way up and having a lot of money in my twenties and then just being insane, uh, and just, just being stupid and egotistical and driven by money. 0.84

00:42:01.280 I lost it all.

00:42:02.540 And then I regained, uh, my, after I was poor again, the second time I regained, uh, some of that.

00:42:10.640 And so I have a different look and I, I always think, cause I've really wrestled with money.

00:42:16.040 Uh, how does this fit in a spiritual life?

00:42:19.060 And a couple of things come to mind is Jesus, Jesus talks about how his father is building mansions for us.

00:42:29.740 He's not building a co-op city.

00:42:32.360 We are having a mansion built for us.

00:42:35.100 So it's not the stuff per se.

00:42:37.840 You know, I, when I was, when I lost my money the first time, when I was really driven by money, I had a car that I absolutely loved.

00:42:45.060 And I cried the day it went back to the dealership.

00:42:49.860 I actually cried.

00:42:50.900 I'm so humiliated.

00:42:53.120 Uh, if the Lord, when the Lord shows that to me, I just going to be, I know, I know.

00:42:58.380 Um, but, uh, now if I lose something, it was great.

00:43:04.660 It was, it was fun.

00:43:05.740 It was nice while we had it, but that's not what's driving my life.

00:43:09.600 And the difference here is that we're all seemingly, uh, missing is it's not a problem being rich or poor.

00:43:19.200 There are many people poor that are a lot happier than rich people and a lot of rich people that do really good things, uh, with their money.

00:43:29.860 And they shouldn't be demonized as evil.

00:43:33.060 You know what I mean?

00:43:34.880 Oh, 100%.

00:43:35.880 And, and no, it's not blasphemous at all.

00:43:37.800 And, um, yeah, you're absolutely right.

00:43:39.320 When we, when, when, when we're in heaven, we're not going to be in, in, in the, the nation state of Chaz. 0.74

00:43:44.820 Um, it would be pretty nice digs, uh, from what, from what I understand.

00:43:51.020 But yeah, Jesus never, uh, never criticized the rich for being rich.

00:43:58.000 Um, in fact, he gave multiple parables about the importance of earning your money and, and multiplying what you're given.

00:44:05.620 And then he, I mean, he actually rebuked those who were given something and then they just held on to it.

00:44:10.880 Um, or they, or they didn't invest it or they didn't double it.

00:44:14.080 Um, in fact, when he save it.

00:44:16.180 Well, of course.

00:44:16.860 And when he was traveling, he, and he, and when he sent his disciples to travel and when missionaries went on their journeys in the book of Acts, uh, they had to stay in the homes of wealthy people.

00:44:25.860 They, uh, had to be, they had to, they said they were sustained by the generosity of wealthy people.

00:44:31.460 In fact, um, even there were women who followed Jesus, who sustained his ministry financially.

00:44:36.360 Well, they didn't get their money by being poor.

00:44:38.600 Um, and he defended it like we, as, as we just talked about, he defended the woman who poured the, the expensive perfume on his, on his feet.

00:44:45.460 Um, and I talked about the, the beauty of, of, of, uh, feasts, big elaborate wedding feasts and all of those things.

00:44:52.780 He all, he always talked about in, in a positive way, but he was very, very explicit about what you just said, which is if it's got your heart, then you're in big trouble.

00:45:03.960 And it's in fact, you're going to have a harder time getting into heaven than a camel is going to get into through an eye of a needle.

00:45:09.040 I mean, he, he was very hard on those to whom did have the, to those who did have those means.

00:45:14.820 Um, but poor people missed the boat too.

00:45:18.160 You know, he, so he, he, he was an equal opportunity, uh, uh, offender when it came to, yeah, when he, when he came to making sure that your heart was in the right place.

00:45:27.160 Cause I believe that there's in many ways, sometimes the theology of poverty that some people become just as proud of or obsessed with, with poverty, um, as, as they do wealth.

00:45:40.060 And, and it's, it's, it's, it's, it's much like the same comparison goes to people who are too prideful.

00:45:45.560 It's the same side.

00:45:46.760 It's, it's, it's, it's the opposite side of the same coin as someone who's too self loathing.

00:45:51.320 It's like, well, they're both, they're, they're all part of the same belief, which is it's, it's obsession with self and it's whether you're, uh, if you're too antagonistic towards the wealthy, you care, you, you yourself care too much about money.

00:46:06.260 Um, and that's, that's the key.

00:46:08.720 So yeah, Jesus was not prejudiced against wealthy people.

00:46:11.720 He was prejudiced against anyone who was owned by anything other than him.

00:46:15.940 And money was just happens to be the thing that most easily owns us, but so does narcissism.

00:46:21.260 So does pride.

00:46:21.960 So does, uh, golfing on a weekend, you know?

00:46:24.720 Right.

00:46:25.440 That's one of the things that, um, you know, in, in my faith, we stay away from tobacco, alcohol, and caffeine and logical reasons for all of those things.

00:46:36.020 But one of them is on caffeine.

00:46:39.280 Um, it's not about the caffeine.

00:46:42.720 It's not about, uh, it's not about coffee as, uh, as, you know, being wrong or evil.

00:46:50.020 One of the things that it is all about is, um, are you dependent on anything?

00:46:57.680 So in other words, unless it's a prescription drug and properly used, um, are you depend, do you get up in the morning and you're like, I have to have my cup of coffee.

00:47:10.240 That should show you on the very small scale.

00:47:14.100 Don't ever be locked into anything but the Lord.

00:47:19.220 Yeah.

00:47:19.700 And that's a really great point.

00:47:20.940 And I've gotten to know so many LDS friends as I've worked on this project, because many of them are actually responsible for getting the show out to the world.

00:47:29.100 And we've had lots of these conversations.

00:47:30.780 And I think there's something really important about, about this as an evangelical.

00:47:34.360 I don't have, I'm not part of a church that has the same, some of the same restrictions that you guys do.

00:47:40.580 Um, well, one thing I've found is both, both, both things can be dangerous.

00:47:44.640 Meaning I've, I've talked to some of my LDS friends for whom the restriction has become an idol.

00:47:51.160 They, they rely so much on the, the, uh, I'm not owned by anything, but, but they are kind of owned by the law, by the rules.

00:47:58.620 Yeah.

00:47:59.200 Yeah.

00:47:59.520 Yeah.

00:47:59.700 The rules become so important that if they break a rule or if they, or if they have a need for something that can be a devastating, you know, God distancing moment for them.

00:48:11.640 I, I know people who handle pretty well.

00:48:15.360 The problem we, the thing we don't handle well is we love to judge alcohol and, and smokers, but say your body's a temple of the Holy spirit and you shouldn't be beholden to anything.

00:48:25.140 Uh, pardon me as I weigh 300 pounds and I have to, uh, also, I can't get through my day without my coffee.

00:48:30.860 I'm going to be a bad person.

00:48:32.120 So it's all about, I think both, I think all, it's all about, it is truly all about moderation in all things and making sure that you are focused on him and nothing comes between you and him.

00:48:50.520 And that could be judging other people that could be, you know, uh, drink that could be anything, anything in your life.

00:48:59.620 And these laws, I know somebody who, um, I know somebody who has, has left the church because they violated some of the rules and they feel so guilty and they feel like nobody could ever accept me.

00:49:15.980 And I keep saying, then you don't understand repentance.

00:49:21.180 And if those people don't understand repentance, that's up to them.

00:49:24.880 But if you're sorry and you've, uh, uh, apologized to God and asked for his forgiveness and he's freely given it to you, everything after that is all you.

00:49:38.200 And it's just as damaging as any sin you might've committed.

00:49:42.500 Yeah, and I think I'm seeing a lot in the LDS community, which per capita is probably the biggest fans of the chosen anywhere.

00:49:52.160 When I go to Utah, uh, that's, that's the one place where I, I, I'm, I'm a, I'm a bit of a celebrity is, um, it's, it's really, the show is become huge in the, in the LDS faith.

00:50:03.360 And, um, partially also because we filmed some of season two at that amazing set in Goshen, Utah, that's owned by the LDS church who allowed us to shoot there for the first time they've ever allowed anyone outside the church to use it.

00:50:16.640 It's extraordinary.

00:50:17.360 Um, and I've had tons of these conversations and, and it's been really interesting to see again, like we just talked about the strengths and weaknesses of LDS faith, evangelical faith.

00:50:27.100 Um, I think that one of the weaknesses that has happened over the course of history with the LDS faith, um, has been this self-loathing whenever, and this fear of if I make a mistake, if I don't, if I don't do the works properly, if I, if I don't get the works, the grace part will never come.

00:50:44.320 Uh, and in the evangelical faith, it's the opposite.

00:50:47.180 And so we have struggles in the opposite way where we've got the grace part.

00:50:50.300 We could probably stand to, to do a few more works, you know, uh, to, to, you know, and, uh, but, but, but it all comes down to, and I think this is what, why the chosen is resonating so much with, uh, with LDS folks as particular, but also evangelicals is, uh, I'm stripping away the religious boundaries.

00:51:07.460 I'm stripping away, uh, the walls that we've put up between our denominations.

00:51:11.460 I'm stripping away the requirements that have been put upon me by whatever church I attend.

00:51:17.320 And I'm just getting to know Jesus and I'm getting to see him through the eyes of people like Nicodemus, who's a religious leader, who was missing the boat, as well as someone like Mary Magdalene, who was demon possessed.

00:51:29.440 Those two opposite sides are all are finding the same thing.

00:51:33.700 So maybe I can find the same thing as someone that I'm on the opposite side of.

00:51:38.040 Maybe there is this man who came to earth and can unify, um, the hearts of people who are longing for a savior.

00:51:47.900 I will tell you that I watched the chosen, uh, with my son and he's 16 and, uh, doesn't know about this whole God thing.

00:51:57.440 You know, this is a typical 16 year old who's very outspoken about things, um, and is not really the one to, uh, be really excited to get up Sunday morning, to go to church, any church.

00:52:11.880 Uh, and we watched it together and loved it because we can see people either that we know or are pieces of us in every single, what, what you've done in the first season with introducing the apostles.

00:52:30.180 When I think it's in the first episode, maybe, uh, where you meet the tax collector and it is phenomenal.

00:52:40.000 I've never seen it done that way.

00:52:43.200 Um, I've never seen Mary Magdalene played this way, such a beautiful depiction of, uh, of what was happening to her in the past.

00:52:54.020 Why she was the way she was, it's beautiful and entirely relatable.

00:53:00.820 I mean, it's a great movie, even if it was just about, you know, just regular old humans, uh, and, and God wasn't a part of it.

00:53:11.800 It is a tremendous, uh, story of love and redemption, horror, uh, personal struggles.

00:53:21.540 I mean, it's really good, Dallas.

00:53:23.880 Really good.

00:53:24.960 Well, thank you.

00:53:25.700 That means a lot.

00:53:26.340 I'm, I'm first of all, shocked to hear you have an outspoken son.

00:53:29.040 That's gotta be a surprise.

00:53:31.820 But, um, I'm sure God laughs, laughs at that every morning.

00:53:35.980 Uh, but, um, but, but you, you, you use the term beautiful and this is a really, really important point for anyone who has seen the show or hasn't seen it yet and wants to watch it.

00:53:46.400 Um, the, the beauty comes from you all, cause you also use the word horror, um, H-O-R-R-O-R, which is that the reason I believe that it's beautiful, the story is beautiful.

00:53:59.940 I'm not talking about my show, just the, the, the, the, the God story.

00:54:03.440 Yeah.

00:54:03.560 Yeah.

00:54:03.680 Yeah.

00:54:03.840 What we're trying to do is what I think a lot of other Jesus productions haven't done, which is we show you the before.

00:54:09.660 That's what my wife calls. 0.99

00:54:10.820 We, we have a devotional book that's out, um, based on the show and based on the gospels and a Bible study.

00:54:15.840 And we always use this term, the before, and that's the, before you meet God, before God, you know, and we always say God finds us in that before.

00:54:25.020 And that before is usually really brutal.

00:54:28.520 It's really ugly.

00:54:29.820 It's really horrifying for Mary Magdalene.

00:54:32.520 It was horrifying.

00:54:33.320 I mean, she was demon possessed.

00:54:34.880 Um, for Nicodemus, Nicodemus had money and wealth and position, but it was horrifying as well because he was trapped in such a, a, a tradition that he couldn't see.

00:54:44.780 He, or at least initially, at least most of his colleagues couldn't see their savior right in front of them.

00:54:50.300 And so what we were really doing, especially, like you said, right away and see episode one, we don't even see Jesus until the very end of episode one.

00:54:56.600 And the reason that when it, when he arrives, people describe it as one of the best or most impactful moments of television they've ever seen.

00:55:03.220 And, uh, and I say that with all humility, just, I'm just pointing out that it's because we take the time, we take the time to not gloss over the before.

00:55:12.280 And if you can identify with those who met Jesus, if you can identify with their problems, if you can identify with their questions, then the hope is that you can identify with the solution and the answer.

00:55:24.220 And that doesn't come and it's not as beautiful and it's not as impactful if we're not willing to reside and experience and connect with the before.

00:55:32.660 This is going to be a real random question, I think for you.

00:55:38.240 Um, so hear me out on this.

00:55:40.360 Uh, I used to believe that common sense was common, that there are certain inalienable truths, uh, and inalienable rights that we all find self-evident.

00:55:54.380 I don't believe that anymore, um, uh, I think you could go to, you know, fields in China and say, you should be free and they wouldn't really understand it and they wouldn't necessarily find that comforting or good.

00:56:11.100 Um, when it, when it comes to, uh, the Jesus story, it, it, it does all seem like common sense.

00:56:22.400 When he says something, it's not, it's profound because it's simple.

00:56:27.880 Right.

00:56:28.760 Uh, is there such a thing as self-evident truths?

00:56:33.320 I do believe that there are self-evident truths.

00:56:36.700 Of course, I believe that God does print things on our hearts and I believe that even we believers can sometimes squelch them by, um, you know, our daily sin struggle, as I like to call it.

00:56:48.440 Whereas, you know, you'd think that after being, uh, hit with the truth of the gospel and believing it, believing that there was a man who literally died for our sins and is our savior and the savior of our souls, that we would have no problem, uh, following all of the, the biblical truths and, and, and living, I think almost a sinful, a sinless life because we're so grateful.

00:57:09.460 And yet every single day I'm reminded of how short I fall of his, of being worthy of his grace.

00:57:15.720 So even we believers can sometimes squelch those self-evident truths.

00:57:20.360 The problem that really happens is when we take those self-evident truths and we not only squelch them, but we would replace them with something else.

00:57:27.800 And that's one of the reasons why the founding fathers kept it so, so narrow is we, we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

00:57:35.800 That's obvious.

00:57:36.660 It should be obvious.

00:57:37.880 But when they also talked about the rights, you start hearing people all the time.

00:57:41.840 Now use the term right to apply to things that are privileges.

00:57:46.460 Um, and I think that's a very human, selfish, flesh filled perspective, which is the founding fathers go, all right, well, we have the right to the, uh, to life.

00:57:56.980 No one has the right to intrude on your life or to kill, you know, to end your life to liberty.

00:58:02.180 No one has the right to end your, or, or get in the way of your freedom.

00:58:05.100 And no one has the right to your, to infringe on your pursuit of happiness, not necessarily happiness itself that we can't promise that God certainly didn't promise.

00:58:13.400 But the pursuit of it, yes, now you're seeing you have the right to fill in the blank.

00:58:19.660 And that is absolutely an indication that we are getting away from those self-evident truths and we're starting to build on them.

00:58:26.360 And anytime you build on self-evident, quote unquote, self-evident truths, they're always going to, they're always going to satisfy us and they're always going to satisfy our flesh.

00:58:36.560 And, uh, that's not necessarily, uh, what, what, uh, what, what God was about or what the founding fathers were about.

00:58:43.780 And the reason I'm bringing it to the founding fathers is just simply to say that what something that they really did understand was that, uh, God didn't want us demanding much more than the very basics.

00:58:58.920 And that, that is, that is life.

00:59:00.440 And so, um, I think that we've, to, to, to answer your question, yes, there absolutely are self-evident truths.

00:59:05.740 And yes, any of us, not believers or non-believers are capable of rejecting or ignoring them.

00:59:13.780 It is, you know, you said God never promised us, you know, whatever.

00:59:17.700 Um, really the only thing he promised us was this was going to be really hard, but I'll wash it clean with the savior and you can come back, you know, you'll, you'll be fine.

00:59:28.960 When you think about, well, God wouldn't want, no, God sent us here knowing that we would be tempted, knowing that we would fail, knowing that some of us would fail spectacularly, but we could endure it.

00:59:45.180 And we could, uh, learn to get better every day.

00:59:49.980 And what you said about, uh, you know, uh, we should be grateful every day.

00:59:54.860 I, I have to tell you, I, uh, you know, I, my whole life was turned around with baptism and, and repentance and the atonement.

01:00:05.380 I needed it so desperately and there should be nobody more grateful than me.

01:00:10.940 And I have found myself, you know, in the last few years feeling like, you know, I wish I could go through some of that.

01:00:19.460 I don't, I don't, God, I do not want this, but you know, some of that again, cause you feel like you kind of drift from it.

01:00:26.740 No matter how intense it was, you still drift.

01:00:30.460 And it takes a lot of work to stay, you know, even in the pocket, let alone really, truly Christ-like.

01:00:40.020 Yeah.

01:00:40.620 And that's, that's one of the main, I mean, you're bringing up one of the main points of the show is that the goal is to be Christ-like.

01:00:46.540 The goal is to follow in his steps.

01:00:47.980 Uh, the goal is to, uh, be as much like Christ as possible while recognizing you'll never get there while recognizing that one of the reasons he came, the main reason he came was because you can't do it.

01:01:00.280 And he would always say that he'd say, you've heard it said that it's wrong to murder.

01:01:04.540 I'm telling you, you guys are so far from, you're, you're, you're even thinking about murder as a sin.

01:01:10.700 So just get it out of your heads that you're going to use the law to live this perfect life.

01:01:16.240 It's never going to happen.

01:01:17.140 And that's the difference between joy and happiness.

01:01:19.680 You're not always going to be happy.

01:01:21.180 You're not always going to be perfect, but you can find joy when you recognize surrender.

01:01:25.580 And that's, that's where the effort comes in.

01:01:27.440 And I try to avoid, and maybe it's evangelical in me, who's not a Catholic, not LDS, which I, which tend to be a little bit more religious based or structural.

01:01:37.340 Um, but the evangelical in me, uh, tends to try to avoid trying to accomplish it through what I do.

01:01:45.540 Where I put the work in the most, where I try to, at least is in the surrender is in the, the, the death to self.

01:01:52.120 Um, and if I'm truly surrendered, if I'm truly broken, and if I, then, then that should hopefully maintain this need for the savior and gratitude.

01:02:01.060 Yeah, I think that, um, I, I think that that is the, the, the whole trick.

01:02:10.480 And some of us might need more structure around us than others.

01:02:15.580 I, I just don't think that, uh, I don't think God's going to, you know, send me to a lake of fire and brimstone because I didn't go to the right college.

01:02:25.140 You know, I didn't, I, I was going to the wrong church.

01:02:28.240 I was doing that.

01:02:28.820 And he is, he is, I don't want to be around a God like that.

01:02:33.320 I mean, if he's like, you know what, you're a good person.

01:02:36.120 You lived a good life, but sorry, you went to the wrong place.

01:02:40.180 Uh, gee, dad, I think that's a little harsh.

01:02:43.320 Don't you?

01:02:44.500 Uh, and so it's, you missed 0.47 out of the 52 points that I had given.

01:02:49.240 Therefore, you're right.

01:02:50.540 This point was you're missing all of them.

01:02:52.500 You're can't get, you're, you're missing all 52.

01:02:54.960 You're, you're missing it all.

01:02:56.380 Even when you think you got it, you don't.

01:02:58.040 So just keep surrendering to me.

01:03:00.620 Keep, you know, keep that cycle of, of, of repentance going, uh, not because you're pouring ashes on yourself, but because it leads you to gratitude.

01:03:09.940 That's really what repentance does is it's the first step towards gratitude.

01:03:14.560 I think that is one of our biggest problems as a nation is we have everything and yet we want more, more, more, more, more.

01:03:22.540 And there's no gratitude.

01:03:25.120 I mean, I have been very grateful for COVID.

01:03:27.940 I think COVID has been a nightmare, but I found a way to find the blessing in it.

01:03:34.200 And I think it has been a real blessing.

01:03:37.380 I mean, you could look at, you know, my political point of view.

01:03:40.820 I'm glad the kids are not in school because what they're teaching our kids is insanity.

01:03:46.220 But also my family has gotten closer together because of COVID.

01:03:51.100 We are lucky enough to live next door.

01:03:53.120 So we, we are all together much more than we were before COVID.

01:03:57.940 And we have focused only on the complaint, only on the lack, only on you have this and I don't have that.

01:04:10.180 We are completely void of forgiveness, of, of self introspection, where it's like, Hey, I don't want to throw that on you. 0.77

01:04:24.260 Cause man, I got a lot of crap, but mainly gratitude.

01:04:27.980 We're not thankful for anything anymore. 0.97

01:04:31.460 That's there's, there's no way to survive that.

01:04:33.980 Yeah.

01:04:35.080 And when you're not grateful as a rule, then anything that comes in that upsets your life becomes way bigger and way more disruptive than it needs to be.

01:04:47.100 Um, so you start to see, it doesn't have to be COVID to get you to be depressed or upset.

01:04:52.420 It can, it can be something as simple as, you know, I got to the restaurant.

01:04:57.400 They didn't have on the menu what I expected.

01:04:59.400 And that can like ruin your day.

01:05:00.960 And, uh, it, it does come from a, a, a position of gratitude that, um, when you're truly grateful for a savior, when you're truly grateful for your, not just your day-to-day, um, blessings, but your soul blessing, your soul, um, rescuing.

01:05:18.000 Um, it results in gratitude and then gratitude results in generosity and in, um, so, so many other, uh, I don't want to sound trite, but so many other positive things can be rooted back to gratitude.

01:05:34.660 And so many negative things can be rooted back to a lack of gratitude.

01:05:38.500 And I think you're absolutely right.

01:05:40.040 We look at everything as an affront to our rights.

01:05:42.960 This didn't happen.

01:05:44.420 This, and I have the right to this.

01:05:46.840 That is when gratitude goes out the window and, and, and society really, not only our hearts start to break down, but society as well.

01:05:53.540 And I think that's where, um, to go back to grace and works.

01:05:59.440 It's not about either of those.

01:06:01.080 To me, it's not about either of them.

01:06:02.740 I mean, it is about the grace of God coming in and changing our hearts.

01:06:08.380 And that's why our works become important because it's just like, you don't really have a change of heart.

01:06:15.480 Cause you're doing exactly the same stuff you were doing before you quote, found Jesus.

01:06:21.240 Uh, and so works become important only as a, as a signal to yourself.

01:06:28.320 You know what I mean?

01:06:29.280 That I'm not fully changed.

01:06:32.520 Yeah.

01:06:33.000 Yeah.

01:06:33.240 Sorry.

01:06:33.640 I didn't mean to interrupt you, but yeah.

01:06:34.840 Faith without works is dead, which is what the book of James says.

01:06:37.600 And, um, but, but when works become the thing, when works become the thing that leads you to faith, that's the problem.

01:06:43.540 But yeah, correct.

01:06:44.660 Are the indication, they're the act of worship.

01:06:46.500 They're the act of gratitude.

01:06:47.900 And, uh, they're the indication, the kind of the, the, uh, the gauge, uh, as, as to where your heart is.

01:06:53.780 Cause when you are fully transformed, it's not work.

01:06:58.500 And you're not keeping score and you don't even notice because I just, that's what I do.

01:07:04.560 You know, how many people do we know that are just so geared to helping others?

01:07:09.820 It's just part of their nature.

01:07:12.080 And if you would say to them, well, you're stacking up a lot of works, they would find that grotesque and they probably wouldn't even know what you were talking about.

01:07:21.260 Let's talk quickly about how people can watch the chosen.

01:07:24.420 The second season starts this Easter weekend and I cannot, uh, emphasize how good this storyline is, how well done it is, how different it is from anything else that I've, I've seen on a Jesus story.

01:07:41.700 It is accurate, but it's accurate, uh, beyond just the words.

01:07:48.220 It is accurate.

01:07:50.020 I believe historically you will feel and smell what Jesus was feeling and smelling.

01:07:58.240 Almost if there was a smell of vision, it's the closest thing you could get to that because you really understand what it was, what it was like.

01:08:07.180 So season two starts now.

01:08:09.860 You should start at season one, but how do you, how do you find it?

01:08:13.620 How do you access it?

01:08:15.100 Yeah.

01:08:15.280 Thank you for that.

01:08:16.180 Uh, very kind of you.

01:08:17.120 And, and I'm wearing one of our hoodies, which says, get used to different, which is a line that Jesus says to Simon on episode seven, when Simon's so upset that Jesus is calling a tax collector to join his team.

01:08:27.220 And Jesus says, get used to different.

01:08:29.340 And, uh, that's going to lead me into how you can watch the show, which is, you're not going to find it on your usual streaming devices or big television networks.

01:08:38.160 We did this outside the system, um, and we created our own app.

01:08:41.940 It's called the chosen.

01:08:42.760 It's a perfect name for it. 1.00

01:08:44.080 And here's the beauty of it.

01:08:45.880 You, wherever you get your phone apps, you can find the chosen, just look it up.

01:08:49.100 It's easy to find.

01:08:50.200 And most people will say, well, I don't want to watch a show on my phone.

01:08:52.720 Well, neither do I.

01:08:53.500 Uh, our, our partners, our distribution partners at angel studios literally invented this technology that allows you to cast it directly to your streaming device.

01:09:02.480 So you have Apple TV, fire stick, Chromecast, um, Roku.

01:09:06.340 You don't even need a subscription.

01:09:07.620 You don't need to pay anything.

01:09:08.820 You don't need to even enter your email address.

01:09:10.560 You just literally connect it directly from your phone and it takes 30 seconds and you can be watching the show on your television.

01:09:16.880 Easter Sunday night, which is our launch of season two, uh, that's going to, we're launching that with a big live stream.

01:09:24.100 So, uh, that's going to be at eight o'clock Eastern on our YouTube channel, our Facebook page and the app.

01:09:30.320 And that's, we're going to be watching it together all over the world.

01:09:33.080 Um, and literally there's going to be most likely hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people all watching at the same time, um, because of the anticipation for season two.

01:09:41.140 So that one, that episode, you can watch with us where, whatever's easiest Facebook, YouTube, or the app, but, uh, yeah, moving forward longterm, uh, the app is, is, is the thing.

01:09:51.300 And, uh, if, if you're used to DVDs, we've got those two, um, we let you, we let you get those DVDs.

01:09:56.660 Cause there's a lot of our, our fans who are just not wanting to embrace technology, but the app is, I will tell you, I downloaded the app and it's really simple.

01:10:06.960 I am a guy, I am convinced that the Lord gives us teenagers so we can navigate technology.

01:10:15.820 Uh, that may be the only thing that's good about the teenage years as a parent.

01:10:21.340 Um, but, uh, it's really, really simple to use.

01:10:24.160 Can tell me real quickly, where does it pick up?

01:10:26.720 Uh, right where season one left leaves off, although there's a twist.

01:10:30.280 So first of all, and I'm not going to give it away, but I will say season one leaves with Jesus and his current band of followers.

01:10:36.360 There's seven of them leaving their hometown and going out and spreading the word with that comes bad trouble and good trouble.

01:10:44.260 They stir up some trouble for the, for their enemies, but they're also attracting some enemies as well.

01:10:49.080 And, uh, so you see the good coming in the bad.

01:10:52.300 Um, but the opening of episode one of season two, uh, will, I promise you, uh, your jaw will drop.

01:11:00.280 I'm just going to say that the first, don't miss the first 30 seconds.

01:11:03.100 Don't be late.

01:11:04.300 Uh, don't skip past it.

01:11:06.000 The opening of the, of the season, um, picks up in a place you least expect.

01:11:11.660 And, uh, it will, it will blow your mind.

01:11:13.660 I promise you.

01:11:14.320 And, uh, I, so just make sure you don't be late.

01:11:16.800 So it's funny.

01:11:17.540 You say, where does it pick up?

01:11:18.540 It's the storyline.

01:11:20.480 We get to where we left off, but we go, we go a different way to get there.

01:11:25.040 And I'll just, that's, that's where I'll leave it.

01:11:27.740 I'm excited.

01:11:28.460 Uh, thank you so much.

01:11:30.180 I'd like to have you on again because I, you know, you had such an interesting life and you

01:11:35.800 have had great success and great failure and you've handled those two imposters just the

01:11:42.400 same.

01:11:43.240 Uh, and, uh, and also growing up with a dad who wrote left behind, uh, has got to leave

01:11:52.200 a mark, uh, on you and, uh, I would imagine in a good way, but, uh, thank you so much.

01:11:58.180 God bless you.

01:11:58.740 Thank you, Dallas.

01:11:59.520 You bet.

01:12:00.060 You too.

01:12:00.420 Bye-bye.

01:12:06.140 Just a reminder, I'd love you to rate and subscribe to the podcast and pass this on to a friend

01:12:11.740 so it can be discovered by other people.

01:12:22.200 Bye-bye.

01:12:30.720 Bye-bye.

01:12:31.040 Bye-bye.

01:12:31.720 Bye-bye.

01:12:34.140 Bye-bye.

01:12:34.920 Bye-bye.

01:12:34.960 Bye-bye.

01:12:36.400 Bye-bye.

01:12:40.140 Bye-bye.

01:12:40.420 Bye-bye.

01:12:44.560 Bye-bye.

01:12:46.680 Bye-bye.

01:12:47.640 Bye-bye.

01:12:48.460 Bye-bye.

01:12:50.200 Bye-bye.

01:12:50.800 Bye-bye.

01:12:51.760 Bye-bye.

The Glenn Beck Program - April 03, 2021

Ep 103 ｜ Who Is the Real Jesus？｜ Dallas Jenkins ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

The Glenn Beck Program - April 03, 2021

Ep 103 ｜ Who Is the Real Jesus？ ｜ Dallas Jenkins ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript

Ep 103 ｜ Who Is the Real Jesus？｜ Dallas Jenkins ｜ The Glenn Beck Podcast